I personally gave up on Enlightenment a long time ago. Eye Candy at a price. I was amazed at the difference between running E+GNOME and running IceWM+GNOME. (My machine was much slower at the time, but still. They can't seem to decide if Enlightenment is a window manager, desktop [epplets?], or a concept. most themers would say window manager, developers a concept. Not quite enough to make it a desktop) As far a customizing, sawfish lets me bind keys, that's about all I need. Don't know what there is to customizie in FVWM. The thing about Sawfish is that it's pretty useless without GNOME. The author never intended for it to stand on it's own. It manages windows, let gnome have the menus (though I notice sawfish 1.0 has a menu now, looks like it's the Debian menu system.) pager, background switching, etc. I do like that you can bind just about every function. My mouse wheel controls desktop switching when no window has focus for example. I'm sure this is an easy thing to do in other window managers, but it's one of those little things you learn to just love. I never got into the Next/Open Step thing myself. For most of us, we're used to windows like behavior with the minimize, maximize, close, and menu buttons on the title bar. Rollup/window shade is a nice bonus (for some of us.) But the warf/dock is just kinda strange. Is it a task manager or a task launcher? Totally different concept on how you should interact with your computer. I'm sure there's a description of it somewhere in the Window Maker docs, or maybe something on Apples site as OSX follows this somewhat. I've used FVWM. I do like it. But I'm lazy and like point click click click...so GNOME it is. And when I need something really trim, I go to blackbox, not fvwm. I need food, later. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "We can learn much more from wise words, little from wisecracks and less from wise guys." --William Arthur Ward