From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 00:12:29 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: References: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010601001229.31d1a07a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Jacqueline Urick" wrote: > > I guess I'd agree with alot of these points that Mr. Reynauld makes. I > don't think he's bad-mouthing Linux. He's pointing out what is really > keeping it from becoming mainstream. I can only really see one issue in the article: the need to train users to understand Linux. And, as Ben pointed out, people who have never used computers can learn Linux just as well as anything else. The big problem is where people expect Linux to behave like Windows. If you've ever been in a Novell or networked Windows environment, the multi-user concept isn't too hard to grasp. If you know how to do CTRL-ALT-DEL and select a process to kill, `ps' and `kill' won't be too hard to learn. If you've used DOS or command-line ftp, the bash command line isn't hard to comprehend either. Granted, I don't feel there's a good filemanager for Linux yet, but hopefully that will get fixed soon (and, of course, personal preferences vary quite a bit, so maybe people will like something that's already working). The remaining problems can be solved with VMWare or some other virtualization layer. It's inelegant, I know, but a great many organizations are already doing essentially the same thing on their Macintosh systems. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Ship it. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jun 1 01:36:34 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if n ot Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280845@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Install the daemontools package from Dan Bernstein. http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html They offer an excellent way to make sure processes never die. -----Original Message----- From: Nate Carlson [mailto:natecars@real-time.com] Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:33 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if not On Thu, 31 May 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > RedHat 6.1 server. Running as DNS server. Named stops randomly. > > > > What is the best way to chk if named is running and to restart named if it > > is stopped? > > I've been considering writing a script to do this... I figure you could > just take advantage of sysv init, go through /etc/init.d/, run each > script with 'status', if its running good, if its dead start it... > > But Debian apparently doesn't implement 'status'. Blah. And seems to me, > the ultimate thing would be to run everything from init, since it > already has logic for keeping processes running, without flooding the > system with spawns... or just use netsaint to check it, and rig up an external script to have it start. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 03:27:03 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <200106010515.f515F6K15882@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: I'm inclined to agree with the author that it would be a difficult task for Linux to displace Windows on today's corporate desktop. MS Office is especially entrenched in the business world; most new desktop PCs purchased by corporations these days come with Windows and MS Office preinstalled. Often unwittingly, many corporations have "standardized" on MS Office. Placing their critical business documents into the proprietary file formats purveyed by Microsoft, these companies place their documents at risk of "bit rot" and place the corporation at risk of later Microsoft extortion (a.k.a. mandatory "upgrades" every two years). Five, ten, or twenty years from now, will these corporations still have access to the documents being created today? Unknown. Has anyone here tried accessing any really old (pre-Windows) MS Word, Wordperfect or Wordstar documents lately? As these old, proprietary programs fade from memory, so do the documents created with them. Many of today's corporate computer users are comfortable using MS Office and see no reason to use any competing tools. They have grown to expect that everyone has a copy of MS Office, so they don't even think twice about, for example, attaching nasty MS Word documents to their email messages. Some even think that Microsoft is "the best." Even if your own company is "Microsoft free", it's likely that at least some of your suppliers and customers will expect you to interact with them by sending MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.) files back and forth. It's relatively easy to tell a supplier that you won't accept MS Word documents, but it's often not possible (or worthwhile) to impose this constraint on a paying customer. For most businesses, the short-term cost equation favors the status-quo of continuing to use Windows and MS Office. To such businesses, moving desktop users to Linux may look like an expensive and risky proposition. In today's software climate, it's difficult for many businesses to find the political will to get off Windows and MS Office (and thereby break their dependency on Microsoft). For this to happen, someone really high up in the company would need to "buy in" to Linux and "go to bat" for it. (Two rays of hope...) However, Linux does appear to be gaining mind-share among Windows users. One friend of mine recently remarked that he plans to eventually learn Linux so he can set up a firewall and a Gnutella server in his house. In a number of ways, he percieves Linux to be "better" than Windows. In addition, young kids today are more computer-savvy than ever, and are growing up with Linux. As the older generation passes on, it may take a good chunk of Microsoft's market with it. Joel On Thu, 31 May 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010531/tc/why_2001_is_not_the_year_of_the_penguin__1.html > > More bad press on linux. > > Am I such a zelot, that I can't see the truth through the blinding light I > believe eminates from Tux? Joel --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 07:53:12 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Joel T Schneider wrote: > Even if your own company is "Microsoft free", it's likely that at least > some of your suppliers and customers will expect you to interact with them > by sending MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.) files back and forth. > > It's relatively easy to tell a supplier that you won't accept MS Word > documents, but it's often not possible (or worthwhile) to impose this > constraint on a paying customer. This is a valid point, but not one without solution. People are always telling their customers that there are limitations or hoops to jump through. The trick is to tell them *nicely* and don't tell them what they can't do, but tell them how they *can* get what they want. What comes to my mind is to make the company party-line (boilerplate e-mail reply, whatever) something like the following: "The quality our customers have come to expect from our {goods | services} requires that we use exceptional software to run our business. Accordingly, it is inconvenient for us to run {application}. Please export as {ASCII text | RTF | something standard} the next time, or we'd be happy to share our technology with you." The only reason they use Windows is because "everybody else does." Businesses are fickle; as soon as they hear that something else is necessary to compete, that's what they start looking at. If the big customer / supplier uses something, the little suppliers / customers get forced to follow. But it also works the other way; if enough little customers / suppliers use something, the big suppliers / customers will become compliant. I say, put your foot down, diplomatically. Someone's got to go first. > For this to happen, someone really high up in the company would need > to "buy in" to Linux and "go to bat" for it. Or for them to find that they have to do it to make sales that they really want to make. If it's perceived as one or two customers without much business, your scenario is required. But if they start hearing, "please, would you use Linux already?" then they'll change to stay with the crowd. Even if the crowd isn't as big as they *think* it is! ;) > As the older generation passes on, it may take a good chunk of > Microsoft's market with it. Boy, that's an unfortunate turn of phrase! If Microsoft gets wind of that idea, they'll start selling life insurance that names themselves as the customers' beneficiary. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From nate at techie.com Fri Jun 1 08:18:10 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 10:00:00PM -0500 References: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010601081810.A30659@candle.rawstew> On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 10:00:00PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010531/tc/why_2001_is_not_the_year_of_the_penguin__1.html While I may agree with a few points in this article, there _is_ a lot of FUD in there. 1. No Acrobat There may not be the beautiful Adobe GUIs, but GhostScript provides ps2pdf and just about everything in Linux generates PostScript. If you're looking for typesettings stuff, look into TeX. 2. The Photoshop replacement is called the GIMP. If he doesn't know that already, he's still a Linux newbie who shouldn't be writing these types of articles. If that's not powerful enough, buy a copy of Corel Photo-Paint. I think that's on Linux already. 3. Anyone who is using 16-bit Window applications to do data warehousing seriously needs to find an escape route from the hole they've dug themselves into. Go get DB2 from IBM and do it right. There is a reason RMS is on a crusade and this is exactly it. Where he does have a point is Quark Xpress. I don't know of any applications on Linux that compare to this product. Framemaker had a chance, but they decided to pull out. Nate From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jun 1 08:32:25 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Wright County Auction In-Reply-To: <20010531173145.O1548@real-time.com> References: <20010530115617.A16547@iaxs.net> <20010531173145.O1548@real-time.com> Message-ID: <15127.39273.239160.973927@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "CWS" == Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: >> Well, it's an auction. Generally it runs til noon or so, with >> the computer stuff being towards the end. There's other stuff >> too, like de-commisioned cop cars and confiscated stuff from >> drug busts and the like. Occasionally you'll find better >> computers that have been seized than what our department throws >> out, but it's not common. CWS> occasionally there are some humorous moments; like at the '99 CWS> auction, they sold off a Cyrix 200, with a couple of boxes of CWS> garbage Windows software, plus some surge suppressors, plus a CWS> 'monitor', for $300. CWS> the 'monitor' was a Wyse dumb terminal. :) I was caught in a goof like this once, when I bought a SPARC II at an auction and got an IPC (I think that's the right model, maybe IPX?) instead of a monitor! R From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jun 1 08:35:30 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: QWEST and CISCO 675 Message-ID: <15127.39458.276286.216940@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> The SANS group strongly suggests that CISCO 675 owners upgrade the software, pointing to the web site: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/CBOS-multiple2-pub.html Unfortunately, they also say that we should contact our suppliers. Given that my supplier is Qworst, this makes my heart sink. So, before settling in to an hour sitting by my speaker-phone, alternating between talking to the wrong person and sitting on hold, I thought I'd ask if any of you have gotten the upgrade, and if there's any way to bypass Qworst. Thanks, R From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 08:35:00 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <20010601081810.A30659@candle.rawstew> Message-ID: In the Reynauld article, he makes the point that a lot of people just don't get the multi-user aspect of Linux. I think that's fine; why doesn't someone do a focused single-user workstation distro? The only "special purpose" distros I can think of are things like LRP, real-time linux (not our Real-Time), embedded linuces, etc. Make one that defaults to single-user mode, load it up with desktop gadgets, make preconfigured setups (i.e., the WindowMaker setup, the KDE setup, the fvwm setup, yada, yada). I bet everyone has *some* package installed that they haven't set up beyond the "factory" defaults. Maybe we just need to cater more toward those who never venture further asea than that to be accepted on the desktop. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 08:58:21 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: QWEST and CISCO 675 In-Reply-To: <15127.39458.276286.216940@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Unfortunately, they also say that we should contact our suppliers. > Given that my supplier is Qworst, this makes my heart sink. So, > before settling in to an hour sitting by my speaker-phone, alternating > between talking to the wrong person and sitting on hold, I thought I'd > ask if any of you have gotten the upgrade, and if there's any way to > bypass Qworst. First, try their web site if you haven't. They have modem support at http://www.qwest.com/dsl/customerservice/csco675ups.html Note that if you have a Windows PC, you can just do it from their web site. (Dunno about using WINE or something.) Second, does the 675 support tftp like the 678? If so, then you don't even need the windows version. You can get CBOS v2.4.1 from www.cisco.com if you follow the links into DSL products then 600 series then 675 (I think.) Install and use tftp (trivial ftp, available on Linux) to send the new software to the modem. Ta da! If this doesn't work, you can always go back to Qworst and do it the Widows way if necessary. Assumption: you *do* have a 56k modem around, and a number to dial, just in case your DSL modem becomes unusable? The only concern I would have about doing the non-windows version is that Qworst says that they need their modems to work with their system. I don't know if that's because they just aren't being forthcoming about what their system actually is -- DMT, various technical params, etc -- or if it's because they've actually gotten into the modem firmware or had cisco customize code a little. So, make sure you have an escape route, but otherwise, have fun! If your ISP hasn't given you an analog # to call, maybe a LUGnut will let you dial in to their box, if you get stuck. (I'm almost offering, but not convinced you need that.) Cheers, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 09:04:48 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: QWEST and CISCO 675 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sorry for updating myself -- Qwest says the 675 will accept Xmodem over the serial port, so minicom should be sufficient to download the software. Also, be careful that you don't get the wrong software -- make sure CAP or DMT agrees with your modem. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 1 09:53:07 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 10:00:00PM -0500 References: <20010531220000.W23403@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010601095307.S4882@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010531 22:02]: > Am I such a zelot, that I can't see the truth through the blinding light I > believe eminates from Tux? "(notice I don't say free, because to get good functionality out of Linux, you need to buy a distribution, not download one)" Well, if you notice the guy is a complete moron. :) " How would they create the PDF's they need to create?" ps2pdf "filename.ps" "How would their graphics team be able to make high-quality marketing graphics?" Gimp. But real people use Illustrator *not* Photoshop. " Lastly, what about the fate of the 16-bit legacy applications, which are critical to their productivity? Those, too, are gone." Good, take the opportunity to rewrite them all into Java so your not stuck ball-and-chain to a vendor again. "Linux. The past few years have brought new innovations such as SANE" Oh yes, because the innovations such as better installers, a new kernel, gnome 1.4, and the work on mozilla and abiword mean nothing. This guy is hurling FUD. Worse, he works for the govt. Even worse, he doesn't actually follow linux, he makes his point as an "enthusist" *not* a working linux professional. Plus, the person has not a presence in the community as far as I can see. This non-presence brings -0- creditability to many of these arguments. In another tangent on govt use: http://www.tc.faa.gov/act-500/nasacb/airmm/test_bed.htm Whowa :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010601/4f3cfa7e/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 1 09:54:22 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] best way to chk if named is running and restart if n ot In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280845@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:36:34AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280845@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010601095422.T4882@ringworld.org> * Austad, Jay [010601 01:38]: > Install the daemontools package from Dan Bernstein. Fear the bad-djb-karma-license. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010601/2bcf11ce/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 1 10:48:01 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010601104801.3c0ef09d.blayer@qwest.net> Hello, I went through this stuff a couple of weeks ago.. here is what I learned. On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:04:48 -0500 (CDT) "Phil Mendelsohn" wrote: > sorry for updating myself -- > > Qwest says the 675 will accept Xmodem over the serial port, so minicom > should be sufficient to download the software. Also, be careful that you > don't get the wrong software -- make sure CAP or DMT agrees with your > modem. First, while Cisco and Qwest both claim that Xmodem works over the serial port, I was not able to get it working with Minicom, using the same settings that normally allow me to operate the 675's serial console. Just errored out every time I tried, so I gave up on it. Second, the CAP/DMT firmware is *not* related to the CBOS, so a change of CBOS version is irrelevant to this. CAP/DMT is seperate firmware. The easy & fast way to upgrade the CBOS (the latest version I found was 2.4.1, so I used it) is via tftp. The drill goes like this: (IMPORTANT NOTE: I assume that the 675 is ip 10.0.0.1, and the client used to send the upgrade is 10.0.0.2. Adjust as required for your network.) Log into CBOS over the serial cable, enter enable mode. #set tftp enabled #set tftp remote 10.0.0.2 (this may be optional, but I set it the address of my desktop. This forces the 675 tftp to only accept tftp connects from a single host (security)). Now, from the client machine 10.0.0.2, and assuming you have downloaded CBOS 2.4.1 as filename 'nsrouter.c675.2.4.1.bin': $mv nsrouter.c675.2.4.1.bin nsrouter.c675.2.4.1.bin.hr $tftp 10.0.0.1 69 tftp>mode binary tftp>put nsrouter.c675.2.4.1.bin.hr tftp>quit Back to the CBOS serial console on more time: #set tftp disabled #reboot The modem should reboot, check a bunch of checksums, *then* it flashes the EEPROM, reboots again and wakes up with the new version. You shouldn't have to touch any of your NVRAM settings, but if they are ugly, log into the serial console, enter enable mode and do: #set nvram erase #write #reboot Then you may configure the unit as if factory-fresh; ppp passwords and all... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 1 10:49:51 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: QWEST and CISCO 675 In-Reply-To: <15127.39458.276286.216940@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <15127.39458.276286.216940@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20010601104951.346f563a.blayer@qwest.net> Hi Robert, On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:35:30 -0500 "Robert P. Goldman" wrote: > > The SANS group strongly suggests that CISCO 675 owners upgrade the > software, pointing to the web site: > >I thought I'd > ask if any of you have gotten the upgrade, and if there's any way to > bypass Qworst. See my upcoming post 'My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO' .. should help you out.. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From natecars at real-time.com Fri Jun 1 10:55:14 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ORBS dead? Message-ID: check out http://www.orbs.org. What's up? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 10:55:48 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... Message-ID: <010601105548.202aa738@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi I think this discussion is really dancing around the point, though a previous post did really touch on the fact that MS in ingrained. The question is: "Why?". At the bank I contract for, we just had a problem last week which eventually turned out to be winders went flaky because a user disk went full. They couldn't reboot until Friday, so all kinds of data were late because of the problems the flaky server caused. This cost them (trust me on this one). In the post mortem that followed once we knew what was going on, I was asked "What can we do to prevent this, and don't tell me Linux?". The point here is he KNEW Linux would be better, but no one there in his right mind would espouse such a point of view. The people who make the real decisions (aka control the bucks) don't have any real knowledge about computers. So, what do they know. They see some dork with glasses making all kinds of absurd claims about how great his crap is, and they buy it. It works "well enough" (I saw that somewhere). Linux is an "unknown" and they have a system that "works". If it works, don't fix it. I don't believe there's anyone here who doesn't believe in that. You can talk all you want about how to answer objection A or objection B, and we all know that most of the answers are there and the rest probably could be had somehow, but until you get "mind share" of the people making the decisions, you're just blowing hot air at a brick wall. Putting Linux on the file server seems, to me, to be the way to make the inroads. Reliability is Goliaths' weakness. Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jun 1 11:06:45 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010601104801.3c0ef09d.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20010601104801.3c0ef09d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <15127.48533.203313.970757@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Many thanks to Phil and Bill for all the help! Someday soon when I'm feeling courageous I'll have a whack at it.... Thanks! R From ben at nerp.net Fri Jun 1 11:08:18 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ORBS dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ack! what is with that.. I just tried doing some queries against the outputs lists (stuff that showed up yesterday in my logs :) and I got no response. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Nate Carlson wrote: > check out http://www.orbs.org. > > What's up? > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxe988tpDhsSpvgtAQFSOAQAwfZCBg8nuV1SEZg7eZlBN7PMrQzsvsnX lpJCKlJldm84x/wSjxYFFVg9Q0eoaCrIW94f3nuUHx9Xac3UxUGcHd+vNVYcz0o4 65p0rtO4dpnml58+XMXYQBi5SHW3iYDuuPHri4Gi2D0U0Z3+xy/Kr1iIQAR40GSN HgsGjGzfYH0= =+u81 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 1 11:16:50 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <010601105548.202aa738@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: > You can talk all you want about how to answer objection A or objection B, and > we all know that most of the answers are there and the rest probably could be > had somehow, but until you get "mind share" of the people making the decisions, > you're just blowing hot air at a brick wall. Putting Linux on the file server > seems, to me, to be the way to make the inroads. Reliability is Goliaths' > weakness. NT/2000 isn't bad, but there are alot of bad admins out there who do some really stupid things with it. But that's a different matter. Yes, a file server is a good start. An apache webserver (even if it's just Intranet) is another good one. If you need to sell linux, let's site some MS fuckups. #1 on my list is terminal services licensing. It's done per-seat. Idealy, I think it should be per-server as it would make it more flexible and useful, and be more inline with Citrix. But no, per-seat. That's not the bad part however. By design, you need to setup a Terminal Services License server on your Domain Controller. When a Terminal Services client connects, a license is requested. The License Server assigns a license, and that license is stored on the client. (dumb dumb dumb...) To make matters worse, once a license is assigned, it cannot be revoked, and licenses don't expire. If your client device needs to be reinstalled, is replaced, etc. it retains the terminal service license. The only way to get the license back is to call a MS Clearing House and get a replacement license assigned. A hotfix was released so that licenses we valid for a maxium of 90 days, but it had a bug or two and was retracted. Looks like it can be downloaded again now. But the hotfix will only apply to new licenses. The ones allready assigned with no experiation date need to go through the MS clearing house. How do you know MS is too big? When they can afford to pay a clearing house staff to take care of issues like this. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 1 05:34:51 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help References: Message-ID: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> I need a script that would do this for me: xhost krypton rlogin krypton (enter login name) (enter password) export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 sunapp(an application that I need to run) if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and dont want to puts around the man pages. ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010601/3ab0fb75/drew.vcf From mpaulsen at charter.net Fri Jun 1 11:33:00 2001 From: mpaulsen at charter.net (Mike Paulsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ORBS dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010601113116.02560070@pop.charter.net> At 10:55 AM 6/1/01, Nate wrote: >check out http://www.orbs.org. > >What's up? I do not know the full details. My limited understanding is: Alan put some Telecom New Zealand/Extra/Actrix IPs in the inputs zone which didn't qualify for listing per the policy stated on the website. (i.e., they were not verified open by the automated tester) Alan got sued and various legal things happened. Alan posted a 'NOTICE TO ALL' to news.admin.net-abuse.email and a few other online venues. You can find it here: See: http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search exact phrase: Manawatu Internet Services Limited newsgroup: news.admin.net-abuse.email I should stress that the full story has not come out and Alan's statement may have been made under duress. We probably won't know the full details until it's all over. From schelcj at pobox.com Fri Jun 1 11:34:40 2001 From: schelcj at pobox.com (Chris Scheller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help In-Reply-To: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> Message-ID: is ssh is accessible on both systems just do ssh -l -C -f krypton sunapp On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > xhost krypton > rlogin krypton > (enter login name) > (enter password) > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > dont want to puts around the man pages. > > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > Chris Scheller Network One Internet, inc. http://www.networkone.net/ System/Network Administration 1.888.GOT.NET1 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 11:34:34 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010601104801.3c0ef09d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > First, while Cisco and Qwest both claim that Xmodem works over the serial > port, I was not able to get it working with Minicom, using the same > settings that normally allow me to operate the 675's serial console. Just > errored out every time I tried, so I gave up on it. Second, the CAP/DMT > firmware is *not* related to the CBOS, so a change of CBOS version is > irrelevant to this. CAP/DMT is seperate firmware. Thanks; I have the 678 so I don't have the same hands on with the 675. With the 678 you can change CAP/DMT via software, but I thought there was a different CBOS for each, due to something I saw on Qworst's site. I won't labor under that misconception anymore. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 11:37:38 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help In-Reply-To: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net>; from drew@usfamily.net on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100 References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20010601113738.A27526@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > xhost krypton > rlogin krypton > (enter login name) > (enter password) > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > dont want to puts around the man pages. Any particular reason not to use ssh? With ssh properly setup, all you'd have to do is "ssh kryton sunapp". (Of course, you may not have perms to setup ssh.) Anyway, to do this right, you probably want to expect, instead of bash. That's because entering login names and passwords requires waiting till you're prompted for them. That's a pain to do with regualr shells, but its expects bread and butter. So, do you have expect available? I'd write the script, if you do. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 1 11:37:00 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: References: <20010601104801.3c0ef09d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010601113700.6ecf27b4.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:34:34 -0500 (CDT) "Phil Mendelsohn" wrote: > Thanks; I have the 678 so I don't have the same hands on with the > 675. With the 678 you can change CAP/DMT via software, but I thought > there was a different CBOS for each, due to something I saw on Qworst's > site. I won't labor under that misconception anymore. AFAIK, the CBOS issue with CAP/DMT is that you need to have CBOS later than a certain rev. to support the DMT firmware.. I do not believe that there are different versions for CAP/DMT. IF this is wrong, I would surely like to be told! And yes, the 678 can be changed from CAP to DMT and vice-versa through a tftp firmware change. Qwest is unaware of this, as they send yo a new modem if you get one with the wrong firmware. Surprise, surprise... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 11:40:00 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... Message-ID: <010601114000.202aa738@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Remember the old saying -- Know your audience. The discussion you just made would be far beyond the people in powers' heads. You'd get the glassy eyes and a polite thank you. That's all you'd get. >>How do you know MS is too big? When they can afford to pay a clearing >>house staff to take care of issues like this. I like this!!! Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 1 11:41:49 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help In-Reply-To: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net>; from drew@usfamily.net on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100 References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20010601114149.A222@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > xhost krypton > rlogin krypton > (enter login name) > (enter password) > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > dont want to puts around the man pages. It's too dangerous to store your login/password in a script. And if you are typing the login/password by hand , you can type the rest 8-0) It's no big deal. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 1 05:52:33 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> <20010601113738.A27526@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B1773F1.E51D9C1F@usfamily.net> Yes I do have expect available, and I could use it, so if you can write it in expect.. The reason that I dont use ssh, is because I dont want to set it up on every machine. While using a script like this, is fast and easy. Also I'm not worried about security since all these machines are on internal lan. Using ssh would just be too much of a hasle. Jim Crumley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > > > xhost krypton > > rlogin krypton > > (enter login name) > > (enter password) > > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > > dont want to puts around the man pages. > > Any particular reason not to use ssh? With ssh properly setup, > all you'd have to do is "ssh kryton sunapp". (Of course, you > may not have perms to setup ssh.) > > Anyway, to do this right, you probably want to expect, instead of > bash. That's because entering login names and passwords requires > waiting till you're prompted for them. That's a pain to do with > regualr shells, but its expects bread and butter. So, do you > have expect available? I'd write the script, if you do. > > -- > Jim Crumley | > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | > Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010601/be7295f7/drew.vcf From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 12:01:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010601113700.6ecf27b4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > AFAIK, the CBOS issue with CAP/DMT is that you need to have CBOS later > than a certain rev. to support the DMT firmware.. I do not believe that > there are different versions for CAP/DMT. IF this is wrong, I would surely > like to be told! No, it appears that you're correct. Sorry for the red herring; what I saw was not related to the file to download, but rather the status to look for when you're done. > And yes, the 678 can be changed from CAP to DMT and vice-versa through > a tftp firmware change. That wasn't a question; I changed it to see if it stopped working and put it back to see if it worked again. But then I'm the kind of guy that takes Christmas presents apart before playing with them. > Qwest is unaware of this, as they send yo a new modem if you get one > with the wrong firmware. Surprise, surprise... Another case where they step on their own toes. I was lucky enough to have read all of Cisco's stuff before I needed to resolve anything with Qworts. (I like that typo; I'll leave it.) Truth is, you aren't really as reliant on only Qwest as they lead you to believe. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 1 12:02:59 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <010601114000.202aa738@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > Remember the old saying -- Know your audience. The discussion you just made > would be far beyond the people in powers' heads. You'd get the glassy eyes and > a polite thank you. That's all you'd get. It's MS licensing. Everyone get's glassy eyes. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Jun 1 12:16:57 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> <20010601113738.A27526@gordo.space.umn.edu> <3B1773F1.E51D9C1F@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <3B17CE09.2C8AC1D9@structural-wood.com> Is there some reason you need to rlogin? Can't you just rsh the application - something like. xhost krypton ; rsh krypton 'DISPLAY=blah:0.0 sunapp' Note that you would need to set up .rhosts on the sunapp machine, but it is better than transmitting your password in plaintext across the net. Of course ssh is obviously better if available. Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > Yes I do have expect available, and I could use it, so if you can write it in expect.. > The reason that I dont use ssh, is because I dont want to set it up on every machine. > While using a script like this, is fast and easy. Also I'm not worried about security > since all these machines are on internal lan. Using ssh would just be too much of a > hasle. > > Jim Crumley wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > > > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > > > > > xhost krypton > > > rlogin krypton > > > (enter login name) > > > (enter password) > > > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > > > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > > > > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > > > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > > > dont want to puts around the man pages. > > > > Any particular reason not to use ssh? With ssh properly setup, > > all you'd have to do is "ssh kryton sunapp". (Of course, you > > may not have perms to setup ssh.) > > > > Anyway, to do this right, you probably want to expect, instead of > > bash. That's because entering login names and passwords requires > > waiting till you're prompted for them. That's a pain to do with > > regualr shells, but its expects bread and butter. So, do you > > have expect available? I'd write the script, if you do. > > > > -- > > Jim Crumley | > > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | > > Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 1 12:20:42 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Another case where they step on their own toes. I was lucky enough to > have read all of Cisco's stuff before I needed to resolve anything with > Qworts. (I like that typo; I'll leave it.) Truth is, you aren't really > as reliant on only Qwest as they lead you to believe. I like the typo, but out of context it may not work well. I may have to sneak that one in from time to time :-) When it comes to being reliant on Qworst, I agree that they're not really needed for this stuff. The modem is a piece of Cisco hardware running Cisco firmware running Cisco's OS, so Qworst shouldn't be in the picture at all. Right? Well.. kinda... About a week ago I noticed that CBOS 2.4.2 was out. I e-mailed tac@cisco.com and they told me to download it from QWORST!!! I couldn't believe it! What company writes an OS and then only distributes it through 3rd parties? Anyway, you need a Qworst.net account to download it and I don't have one of those (nor do I want one). If anyone here has a qowrst.net account you can download CBOS 2.4.2 at: https://www.qwest.net/tools/ppp/cbos -Brian From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 1 12:31:46 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010601123146.0293917f.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:20:42 -0500 (CDT) "Brian" wrote: If anyone here has > a qowrst.net account you can download CBOS 2.4.2 at: > > https://www.qwest.net/tools/ppp/cbos You find a link to CBOS 2.4.2 here? I don't... and if I click on the 'Non-Windows Download' button, it just dumpms me on a Qwest.net FAQ ?! This page seems to focus on 2.2.0... a truly exploitable version. Man, Qwest is behind.. PS I have 2.4.1 if anyone wants it.. but I'd like to get my hands on 2.4.2, just 'cause that's how I am. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 12:40:50 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help In-Reply-To: <3B1773F1.E51D9C1F@usfamily.net>; from drew@usfamily.net on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:52:33AM +0100 References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> <20010601113738.A27526@gordo.space.umn.edu> <3B1773F1.E51D9C1F@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20010601124049.A27608@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:52:33AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > Yes I do have expect available, and I could use it, so if you can write it in expect.. > The reason that I dont use ssh, is because I dont want to set it up on every machine. > While using a script like this, is fast and easy. Also I'm not worried about security > since all these machines are on internal lan. Using ssh would just be too much of a > hasle. If you have a common home directory ssh would still be easier. Also, as somebody else said rsh would be better than a script as well. So anyway, here's the script. It should work ok. Its setup to set password as argument to script. That way your password isn't sitting around in a file (but it still would be visible when you call the script - which may be worse). Change a couple of lines to hard code the password. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | #!/usr/bin/expect -f # Fix variables below as appropriate. To use type "scriptname password" set host "krypton" set display "111.111.111.111:0.0" set user "dog" # To harcode password, uncomment below #set pass "chasecat" # password is sent as argument to script, comment out for hardcoded password set pass [lindex $argv 0] spawn xhost +"$host" spawn telnet "$host" expect "ogin:" send -- "$user\n" expect "ssword:" send -- "$pass\n" # could put an expect for the prompt here, but I don't know what your # prompt looks like, so I'll sleep sleep 1 system export DISPLAY="$display" spawn sunapp sleep 5 exit From jasonj at talkware.net Fri Jun 1 12:56:45 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> <20010601113738.A27526@gordo.space.umn.edu> <3B1773F1.E51D9C1F@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <3B17D75D.F916907E@talkware.net> The best way is to do this with ssh and keys. But I wrote you a script for this. I dont think you should have to change anything in the script. Though the enviroment variable assignment is BASH only. Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > Yes I do have expect available, and I could use it, so if you can write it in expect.. > The reason that I dont use ssh, is because I dont want to set it up on every machine. > While using a script like this, is fast and easy. Also I'm not worried about security > since all these machines are on internal lan. Using ssh would just be too much of a > hasle. > > Jim Crumley wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > > > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > > > > > xhost krypton > > > rlogin krypton > > > (enter login name) > > > (enter password) > > > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > > > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > > > > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > > > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > > > dont want to puts around the man pages. > > > > Any particular reason not to use ssh? With ssh properly setup, > > all you'd have to do is "ssh kryton sunapp". (Of course, you > > may not have perms to setup ssh.) > > > > Anyway, to do this right, you probably want to expect, instead of > > bash. That's because entering login names and passwords requires > > waiting till you're prompted for them. That's a pain to do with > > regualr shells, but its expects bread and butter. So, do you > > have expect available? I'd write the script, if you do. > > > > -- > > Jim Crumley | > > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | > > Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- #!/usr/bin/expect -- #Hack together expect script to set the display enviroment variable on a remote machine. if {$argc==0} { send_user "usage: $argv0 \n\n" exit } # HOSTNAME = [lindex $argv 0] # USERNAME = [lindex $argv 1] # USERPASSWORD = [lindex $argv 2] # DISPLAYENV = [lindex $argv 3] # APP = [lindex $argv 4] exp_version -exit 5.0 expect_before -i $user_spawn_id \003 exit set timeout 5 stty -echo set pid [spawn xhost [lindex $argv 0]] expect exec kill $pid set pid [spawn rlogin -l [lindex $argv 1] [lindex $argv 0]] expect "assword:" { send_user "[lindex $argv 2]" send "[lindex $argv 2]\r" } eof { send_user "rlogin spawn failed\n" exec kill $pid exit 1 } timeout { send_user "\n ## Never saw password prompt.\n" exit 1 } ## At a prompt Switch enter enviroment variable expect -re "(#|>|\\\$|%)" { send "export DISPLAY=[lindex $argv 3]\n" } eof { send_user "\n ## rlogin spawn failed\n" exec kill $pid exit 1 } timeout { send_user "\n ## Never saw command prompt.\n" exit 1 } ## At the next prompt lauch the app expect -re "(#|>|\\\$|%)" { send "[lindex $argv 4]&\n" } eof { send_user "\n ## rlogin spawn failed\n" exec kill $pid exit 1 } timeout { send_user "\n ## Never saw command prompt.\n" exit 1 } ## At the next prompt exit the rlogin expect -re "(#|>|\\\$|%)" { send "exit\n" } eof { send_user "\n ## rlogin spawn failed\n" exec kill $pid exit 1 } timeout { send_user "\n ## Never saw command prompt.\n" exit 1 } set timeout 60 expect exec kill $pid exit From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jun 1 12:43:35 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628084F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Which one do you need? Select a File to Download Filename Description Release Size 'Bytes' More Info c627.full.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 627 full 2.4.2 322896 ? c627.glite.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 627 glite 2.4.2 323056 ? c633.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 633 2.4.2 444704 ? c673.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 673 2.4.2 924224 ? c675.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 675 2.4.2 996560 ? c677.full.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 677 full 2.4.2 938176 ? nsrouter.c677.full.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 677 full 2.4.2 938139 ? nsrouter.c677.glite.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 677 glite 2.4.2 938140 ? nsrouter.c677i.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 677i 2.4.2 880469 ? nsrouter.c678cap.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 678 CAP 2.4.2 1006022 ? nsrouter.c678dmt.full.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 678DMT Full 2.4.2 1005691 ? nsrouter.c678dmt.glite.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 678DMT Glite 2.4.2 1005404 ? c677.glite.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 677 glite 2.4.2 938176 ? c677i.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 677i 2.4.2 880512 ? c678cap.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 678 cap 2.4.2 1006064 ? c678dmt.full.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 678dmt full 2.4.2 1005728 ? c678dmt.glite.2.4.2.bin Mixed header image v2.4.2 for 678dmt glite 2.4.2 1005440 ? nsrouter.c627.full.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 627 full 2.4.2 322792 ? nsrouter.c633.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 633 2.4.2 444600 ? nsrouter.c673.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 673 2.4.2 924182 ? nsrouter.c675.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 675 2.4.2 996518 ? nsrouter.c627.full.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 627 full 2.4.2ap 323000 ? nsrouter.c627.glite.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 627 glite 2.4.2ap 322952 ? nsrouter.c633.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 633 2.4.2ap 444616 ? nsrouter.c673.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 673 2.4.2ap 924358 ? nsrouter.c675.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 675 2.4.2ap 997078 ? nsrouter.c677.full.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P v2.4.2 for 677 full 2.4.2ap 938363 ? nsrouter.c677.glite.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 677 glite 2.4.2ap 938380 ? nsrouter.c677i.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 677i 2.4.2ap 880534 ? nsrouter.c678cap.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 678cap 2.4.2ap 1006198 ? c627.glite.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 627 glite 2.4.2ap 323056 ? c627.full.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 627 full 2.4.2ap 323104 ? c633.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 633 2.4.2ap 444720 ? c673.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 673 2.4.2ap 924400 ? c675.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 675 2.4.2ap 997120 ? c677.full.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 677 full 2.4.2ap 938400 ? c677.glite.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 677 glite 2.4.2ap 938416 ? c677i.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 677i 2.4.2ap 880576 ? c678cap.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 678cap 2.4.2ap 1006240 ? c678dmt.full.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P MH image v2.4.2 for 678dmt full 2.4.2ap 1005792 ? nsrouter.c678dmt.full.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 678dmt full 2.4.2ap 1005755 ? nsrouter.c678dmt.glite.2.4.2ap.bin Auto P Image v2.4.2 for 678dmt glite 2.4.2ap 1005372 ? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Layer [mailto:blayer@qwest.net] > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:32 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO > > > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:20:42 -0500 (CDT) > "Brian" wrote: > If anyone here has > > a qowrst.net account you can download CBOS 2.4.2 at: > > > > https://www.qwest.net/tools/ppp/cbos > > You find a link to CBOS 2.4.2 here? I don't... and if I click on the > 'Non-Windows Download' button, it just dumpms me on a Qwest.net FAQ ?! > This page seems to focus on 2.2.0... a truly exploitable version. Man, > Qwest is behind.. > > PS I have 2.4.1 if anyone wants it.. but I'd like to get my hands on > 2.4.2, just 'cause that's how I am. > > > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't > talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 1 07:20:35 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bash scripting help References: <3B176FCB.8F7CD16E@usfamily.net> <20010601113738.A27526@gordo.space.umn.edu> <3B1773F1.E51D9C1F@usfamily.net> <3B17D75D.F916907E@talkware.net> Message-ID: <3B178893.CAB85D85@usfamily.net> wow now this one actually worked, thank you. Jason Jorgensen wrote: > The best way is to do this with ssh and keys. > > But I wrote you a script for this. I dont think you should have to change anything in the > script. Though the enviroment variable assignment is BASH only. > > Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > Yes I do have expect available, and I could use it, so if you can write it in expect.. > > The reason that I dont use ssh, is because I dont want to set it up on every machine. > > While using a script like this, is fast and easy. Also I'm not worried about security > > since all these machines are on internal lan. Using ssh would just be too much of a > > hasle. > > > > Jim Crumley wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:34:51AM +0100, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > > > > > > I need a script that would do this for me: > > > > > > > > xhost krypton > > > > rlogin krypton > > > > (enter login name) > > > > (enter password) > > > > export DISPLAY=my_ip_goes_here:0.0 > > > > sunapp(an application that I need to run) > > > > > > > > if some one could please write a script that can do this for me I would really > > > > apreciate it. I could probably do it my self but I left my bash book at home, and > > > > dont want to puts around the man pages. > > > > > > Any particular reason not to use ssh? With ssh properly setup, > > > all you'd have to do is "ssh kryton sunapp". (Of course, you > > > may not have perms to setup ssh.) > > > > > > Anyway, to do this right, you probably want to expect, instead of > > > bash. That's because entering login names and passwords requires > > > waiting till you're prompted for them. That's a pain to do with > > > regualr shells, but its expects bread and butter. So, do you > > > have expect available? I'd write the script, if you do. > > > > > > -- > > > Jim Crumley | > > > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | > > > Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #!/usr/bin/expect -- > #Hack together expect script to set the display enviroment variable on a remote machine. > > if {$argc==0} { > send_user "usage: $argv0 \n\n" > exit > } > # HOSTNAME = [lindex $argv 0] > # USERNAME = [lindex $argv 1] > # USERPASSWORD = [lindex $argv 2] > # DISPLAYENV = [lindex $argv 3] > # APP = [lindex $argv 4] > > exp_version -exit 5.0 > expect_before -i $user_spawn_id \003 exit > set timeout 5 > stty -echo > > set pid [spawn xhost [lindex $argv 0]] > expect > exec kill $pid > > set pid [spawn rlogin -l [lindex $argv 1] [lindex $argv 0]] > expect "assword:" { > send_user "[lindex $argv 2]" > send "[lindex $argv 2]\r" > } eof { > send_user "rlogin spawn failed\n" > exec kill $pid > exit 1 > } timeout { > send_user "\n ## Never saw password prompt.\n" > exit 1 > } > > ## At a prompt Switch enter enviroment variable > expect -re "(#|>|\\\$|%)" { > send "export DISPLAY=[lindex $argv 3]\n" > } eof { > send_user "\n ## rlogin spawn failed\n" > exec kill $pid > exit 1 > } timeout { > send_user "\n ## Never saw command prompt.\n" > exit 1 > } > > ## At the next prompt lauch the app > expect -re "(#|>|\\\$|%)" { > send "[lindex $argv 4]&\n" > } eof { > send_user "\n ## rlogin spawn failed\n" > exec kill $pid > exit 1 > } timeout { > send_user "\n ## Never saw command prompt.\n" > exit 1 > } > > ## At the next prompt exit the rlogin > expect -re "(#|>|\\\$|%)" { > send "exit\n" > } eof { > send_user "\n ## rlogin spawn failed\n" > exec kill $pid > exit 1 > } timeout { > send_user "\n ## Never saw command prompt.\n" > exit 1 > } > > set timeout 60 > expect > exec kill $pid > exit ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010601/e443bfff/drew.vcf From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 1 14:03:11 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628084F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628084F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010601140311.6c5e6437.blayer@qwest.net> Hi Jay, Where did you get all these? :) On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:43:35 -0500 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Which one do you need? > nsrouter.c675.2.4.2.bin Image v2.4.2 for 675 2.4.2 996518 ? puh-leese.. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 1 14:13:53 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010601113700.6ecf27b4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is CAP and DMT and if my modem doesn't do those yet why should it? Josh ___SIG___ On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:34:34 -0500 (CDT) > "Phil Mendelsohn" wrote: > > > Thanks; I have the 678 so I don't have the same hands on with the > > 675. With the 678 you can change CAP/DMT via software, but I thought > > there was a different CBOS for each, due to something I saw on Qworst's > > site. I won't labor under that misconception anymore. > > AFAIK, the CBOS issue with CAP/DMT is that you need to have CBOS later > than a certain rev. to support the DMT firmware.. I do not believe that > there are different versions for CAP/DMT. IF this is wrong, I would surely > like to be told! And yes, the 678 can be changed from CAP to DMT and > vice-versa through a tftp firmware change. Qwest is unaware of this, as > they send yo a new modem if you get one with the wrong firmware. Surprise, > surprise... > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 14:59:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is CAP and DMT and if my modem > doesn't do those yet why should it? Your modem does one of the two. They are two of the encoding formats for DSL. Think of AM/FM, or better the two incompatible formats that were in use for 56K (still are?) a couple of years ago. CAP is Carrierless Amplitude/Phase modulation, and DMT is discrete multi-tone. It's the physical layer. If it works, don't worry about it -- but you might look at which you're using. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 1 15:59:57 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: References: <20010601113700.6ecf27b4.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010601155957.7fd1244e.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:13:53 -0500 (CDT) "Joshua Jore" wrote: > So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is CAP and DMT and if my modem > doesn't do those yet why should it? All 675 modems are CAP, but 678 modems can be DMT or CAP. As far as I can tell, Qwest is switching to DMT for new installs.. I don't think that there is any real difference in terms of performance. My guess: DMT is cheaper :) -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jun 1 16:04:14 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] follow-up on rsh and RedHat 7.1 Message-ID: <15128.846.580389.710039@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> In an earlier question I asked why rsh was no longer possible out from a RedHat 7.1 box, configured in a stock way. I thought that there was some protocol problem, but in fact the problem seems to be the firewall. The stock RedHat install comes with the following set of rules: # Firewall configuration written by lokkit # Manual customization of this file is not recommended. # Note: ifup-post will punch the current nameservers through the # firewall; such entries will *not* be listed here. :input ACCEPT :forward ACCEPT :output ACCEPT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 6000 -p tcp -y -j ACCEPT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 6010 -p tcp -y -j ACCEPT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 22 -p tcp -y -j ACCEPT -A input -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -i lo -j ACCEPT -A input -p tcp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 0:1023 -y -j REJECT -A input -p tcp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 2049 -y -j REJECT -A input -p udp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 0:1023 -j REJECT -A input -p udp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 2049 -j REJECT -A input -p tcp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 6000:6009 -y -j REJECT -A input -p tcp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 7100 -y -j REJECT Now this seems to do the right thing and keep people out of your box, but it also keeps me from rsh-ing TO another host. [And before you suggest it, I don't control that other host and can't persuade them to offer ssh instead of rsh.] So, is there some way I can tweak this so that I'm able to make rsh connections out, but not in? I have only the haziest understanding of rsh, but as far as I can tell from a tcpdump, it involves packets going in and out on the low number (blocked) ports. Per the instructions, I tried running lokkit, but it provides only the most gross control over the configuration. Thanks! Robert From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 16:09:53 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010601155957.7fd1244e.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > All 675 modems are CAP, but 678 modems can be DMT or CAP. As far as I can > tell, Qwest is switching to DMT for new installs.. I don't think that > there is any real difference in terms of performance. My guess: DMT is > cheaper :) Actually, it is a holy war that's almost over, and it looks like DMT is going to be, probably, the winner, maybe. http://support.aware.com/technology/whitepapers/dmt.html Obviously DMT biased, but the info is still good. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From scanman at mninter.net Fri Jun 1 16:39:02 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba References: Message-ID: <3B180B76.3090001@mninter.net> Are you sure unix even supports the archive bit? Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: >>am going to try using that. I am not sure how the archive bit works, >>but thought I'd start the incremental process by using the -N option >>with a logfile. >> > >Archive bit is either on or off. It is set off by your backup software, >and on by your os when a file is written to. > >I'm fairly certin that smbfs can't read this bit, but smbclient can. > >I thought of another reason why you're backups might fail. When you login >to the server via smbfs or smbclient, the user you log in as needs to have >full read/write/modify permissions to the drive so that it can reset the >archive bit. > >| Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | >| http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | >| http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | >| Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | >| Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | >| Always a boom tomorrow." | > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Fri Jun 1 08:49:44 2001 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] In my continuing saga to bring bad news... Message-ID: <20010601134944.10443.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> You're reading it wrong - it's not bad news, just a shopping list of things to figure out how to fix. Most companies (the good ones, perhaps) would rather you complain to them so that they can make things right, rather than have you stop using their products altogether. That's what's happening - the author is acting like a consumer advocate, and he is addressing us, the folks who are implementing Linux. We're the corporation - we just need to address the public's needs. How's that for a pep talk? :) Cheers- -Mike >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010531/tc/why_2001_is_not_the_year_of_the_penguin__1.html >More bad press on linux. >Am I such a zelot, that I can't see the truth through >the blinding >light I >believe eminates from Tux? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pc451 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 1 10:07:49 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME Message-ID: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> First off, I don't want a flame war. I am perfectly happy with Blackbox myself, so this is really for my wife, a Windows refugee. I recognize that she would be much more comfortable with a desktop environment, and want to make things comfortable. What I like about KDE is its rapid development cycle. Do these guys ever take a break? However, perhaps someone more knowledgable could tell me whether there is significant development, or if each new release is more along the lines of "Oh, look, I added a paperclip widget! Let's release a new version!" On the other hand, I like GNOME's look and feel. Furthermore, KDE seems to be the Arkansas cousin in the Debian world; he's family, but we prefer to keep him in the back of the house. (No offense intended for anyone from Arkansas or having cousins from said fine state.) What I don't like about both is their bloat. I have run both on my puny 200 MHz 32MB laptop, and let me tell you, they suffer from bloat. True, my new system is an Athlon 1.2 with 256 MB, so that should help matters significantly, but it is the principle of the thing. So, imagine yourself in my shoes: you have the opportunity to introduce a newbie to the Linux world. What desktop environment would you choose? Why? What futures do you see for them? Remember, while I will be the primary administrator, I will have to be teaching her, or at least leaving a list of instructions, of how to run the system in case something ever happens to me. Like, "Oh, no, Peter was hit by a low-flying penguin! Where's our tax information? And while I'm at it, how do I change the font?" I will now wear my asbestos underwear... :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Fri Jun 1 15:23:42 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010601202342.6683.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> is one better or faster than the other? why would they switch? what are the pros and cons of each? -munir --- Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is CAP > and DMT and if my modem > > doesn't do those yet why should it? > > Your modem does one of the two. They are two of the > encoding formats for > DSL. Think of AM/FM, or better the two incompatible > formats that were > in use for 56K (still are?) a couple of years ago. > > CAP is Carrierless Amplitude/Phase modulation, and > DMT is discrete > multi-tone. It's the physical layer. If it works, > don't worry about it > -- but you might look at which you're using. > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." > --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 1 17:30:10 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba In-Reply-To: <3B180B76.3090001@mninter.net>; from scanman@mninter.net on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 04:39:02PM -0500 References: <3B180B76.3090001@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010601173009.V4882@ringworld.org> * ScanMan [010601 16:39]: > Are you sure unix even supports the archive bit? Yes smbtar - shell script for backing up SMB/CIFS shares directly to UNIX tape drives -i Incremental mode; files are only backed up if they have the archive bit set. The archive bit is reset after each file is read. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010601/92d5ed4e/attachment.pgp From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 1 17:31:54 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Whoever said they had a SCSI enclosure Message-ID: Hey, Sorry to semi-spam, but I accidentally killed your Email... either way, I apologize but it's kinda a mootpoint since that machine died anyway. Thanks! -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 1 18:11:22 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com>; from pc451@yahoo.com on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 08:07:49AM -0700 References: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010601181122.A9086@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 08:07:49AM -0700, Peter Clark wrote: > First off, I don't want a flame war. I am perfectly happy with > Blackbox myself, so this is really for my wife, a Windows refugee. I > recognize that she would be much more comfortable with a desktop > environment, and want to make things comfortable. I was in the same situation. I have installed icewm and tweaked the things a little bit. Now my wife is a happy surfer/mailer 8). I got tired of long waits with gnome: startx ................ gterm .......... you get the picture; icewm is simple but can be made to look nice nice: icons, themes, (indeed blackbox is too barren for my wife) and a taskbar. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 1 19:01:21 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Doonesbury (was: Re: In my continuing saga to bring bad news...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010601190121.691926b2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Of course, while we were all bickering, Doonesbury came up with this today: http://a1736.g.akamai.net/7/1736/1392/1dcf6501c8f9fc/images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2001/db010601.gif -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Just cdr down the list.. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From scanman at mninter.net Fri Jun 1 20:59:33 2001 From: scanman at mninter.net (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X memory conservation Message-ID: <3B184885.7050800@mninter.net> Is there an easy way to reduce the amount of RAM X takes up? For example, disabling the pixmap cache somehow? From spencer at sihope.com Fri Jun 1 22:26:39 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer underground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] airport nic and ppc linux In-Reply-To: <200106011648.f51Gm9K01075@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200106020226.VAA02264@unix1.sihope.com> I have been trying to get my airport 802.11 nic setup under SuSE 7.1 ppc. My stumbling block has been once I get it configured with ifconfig and then reboot, the system hangs while setting up the airport device. It does successfully set up eth0, but to no avail because I can not get passed the airport struggle. I have read conflicting articles claiming it is and is not supported. The SuSE book explains how to set up the airport card, but is about 2 pages of worthless information. My question is this. What command can I pass to the kernel via lilo to skip the airport setup? I have already reinstalled a few times and just want to "roll up my sleeves and fix it" now. -Spencer Underground From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 1 23:23:42 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How much does MS pay these guys? In-Reply-To: <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 06:58:20PM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280837@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <20010531185820.4855cb34.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010601232337.A12512@real-time.com> > I don't know.. I'm not sure if the Itanium can execute 32-bit code or > not. Microsoft probably should have an emulation layer for 32-bit > applications. If you want to go back to 16-bit, port DOSEmu or something > ;-) it can, albeit *really* slowly. some PC hardware site got their hands on one for a little bit, and they say it runs 32-bit code about as fast as a 486/low-end Pentium. it should be pointed out that the IA-64 processors out there right now, are basically just for software development... they haven't been optimized for speed yet. it'll still be a couple of processor revisions before they'll be ready to compete with the K7s and P4s, for daily use. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 1 23:33:10 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:33:07AM -0500 References: <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net> Message-ID: <20010601233305.B12512@real-time.com> > The simpelest way I know of is to install xntp rdate is even simpler. :) I just do 'rdate -s time.nist.gov' then do 'hwclock -w' (or 'clock -w' will work on redhat) to set the hardware clock to the software time. by the look of things, it may not be as accurate as ntpdate or xntpd; but if a few seconds is close enough for you; it's probably good enough. :) I used to just have a cron job that ran once a week, and used rdate and clock to set the system clock against time.nist.gov. it's really not the best thing if your system clock 'drifts' pretty badly, tho. some programs don't react well to having the system time changed out from under them. for a production environment, with many machines working in close synchronization with each other (logging to a common loghost, for instance); xntpd is definitely the way to go. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From jack at jacku.com Fri Jun 1 23:39:55 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01060123395500.01260@geezer> I'll make some comments about KDE simply because it has become my desktop of choice. This probably for the wrong reason though. I use SuSE and SuSE is much more KDE focused than GNOME focuesed. (Both are available.) Also when I started using KDE 1 it further along than GNOME at the point and I've gotten used to it. To answer the question about changes. Yes there has been truely significant work done with the revisions. I'm currently running 2.1.0 and I like it a lot. I use one of 3 web browsers depending on what I'm doing, Opera 5, Netscape 4.7, or Konqueror. If I'm downloading stuff from web sites I'll use Opera. For general surfing I'll use Opera or Konqueror. For finicky websites I'll use Netscape. Konqueror still hickups occassionly but it is much more stable than the KDE 2.0 version of the program. I have KOffice installed but haven't had time to play with it yet. I use Kmail for mail reading. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it does what I need so its "good enough". I've got SuSE installed on a couple of the machines in our "Lab" are at work and most people who have sat down at them seem to be able to find Netscape and hit the companies web-mail site without much assistance. Sorry for the rambling reply. I hope this helps a little... Jack On Friday 01 June 2001 10:07, you wrote: > First off, I don't want a flame war. I am perfectly happy with > Blackbox myself, so this is really for my wife, a Windows refugee. I > recognize that she would be much more comfortable with a desktop > environment, and want to make things comfortable. > What I like about KDE is its rapid development cycle. Do these guys > ever take a break? However, perhaps someone more knowledgable could > tell me whether there is significant development, or if each new > release is more along the lines of "Oh, look, I added a paperclip > widget! Let's release a new version!" > On the other hand, I like GNOME's look and feel. Furthermore, KDE > seems to be the Arkansas cousin in the Debian world; he's family, but > we prefer to keep him in the back of the house. (No offense intended > for anyone from Arkansas or having cousins from said fine state.) > What I don't like about both is their bloat. I have run both on my > puny 200 MHz 32MB laptop, and let me tell you, they suffer from bloat. > True, my new system is an Athlon 1.2 with 256 MB, so that should help > matters significantly, but it is the principle of the thing. > So, imagine yourself in my shoes: you have the opportunity to > introduce a newbie to the Linux world. What desktop environment would > you choose? Why? What futures do you see for them? Remember, while I > will be the primary administrator, I will have to be teaching her, or > at least leaving a list of instructions, of how to run the system in > case something ever happens to me. Like, "Oh, no, Peter was hit by a > low-flying penguin! Where's our tax information? And while I'm at it, > how do I change the font?" > I will now wear my asbestos underwear... > > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jun 2 04:35:17 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux Message-ID: <20010602043517.A2713@real-time.com> Ok, what does Bastille Linux really do? I understand it hardens linux. But what does it actually do? The FAQ and README do not say anything about that. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 2 06:19:56 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: <200106011553.f51Fr2K30026@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > As the older generation passes on, it may take a good chunk of > > Microsoft's market with it. > > Boy, that's an unfortunate turn of phrase! If Microsoft gets wind of > that idea, they'll start selling life insurance that names themselves as > the customers' beneficiary. We may need to "make a few calls" and have uncle Guido "take care of" a few people, but if that's what it takes... ;-) Scott Dier writes: > This guy is hurling FUD. Worse, he works for the govt. Even worse, he > doesn't actually follow linux, he makes his point as an "enthusist" > *not* a working linux professional. > > Plus, the person has not a presence in the community as far as I can > see. This non-presence brings -0- creditability to many of these > arguments. I disagree, and think the author makes some valid points regarding obstacles Linux faces on "the desktop." Currently, the vast, unwashed masses of business computer users couldn't care less about "the community." By my definition, "the desktop" is different than "the community" -- the government recently declared that Microsoft currently enjoys effective monopoly control over "the desktop." In recent months, in an effort to spread doubt about open-source, linux, the GPL, etc., Microsoft has been conducting a calculated negative public relations campaign against linux and friends. Presumably, M$ marketing research has led it to believe that open-source, etc. represent a threat to the M$ way of life. The apparent goal of Microsoft's negative PR campaign is to rally the troops and sway the hearts and minds of many, relatively naive computer users. IMHO, while sometimes necessary, grandstanding and taking up a rigid, elitist stance is not always the most effective political response to this type of criticism. On a lighter note, Friday's Slashdot carried an interesting story regarding recent remarks by Steve Ballmer (big kahuna at Microsoft): Ballmer Calls Linux "A Cancer" http://slashdot.org/articles/01/06/01/1658258.shtml The following commentary, found in the discussion under the story, cracked me up laughing... To Microsoft: This word you use ... Innovative ... I do not think it means what you think it means. Joel (apologies to "The Princess Bride") --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From bradyh at bitstream.net Sat Jun 2 08:42:07 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux In-Reply-To: <20010602043517.A2713@real-time.com> References: <20010602043517.A2713@real-time.com> Message-ID: <991489329.1254.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Haven't you been reading Linux Journal? Shame. ;-) There was an interesting article on Bastille last month or the month before. I haven't tried it yet but based on what I read it runs a check on your system and finds possible security problems and explains them then either fixes them or tells you how to fix them. Seems like a cool idea for people like me who are too lazy to go through and check everything by hand. But on the other hand I'm a bit nervous about running it on a production server. Might do something I wouldn't know how to undo right away. Brady > Ok, what does Bastille Linux really do? > > I understand it hardens linux. But what does it actually do? The FAQ and README > do not say anything about that. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jh at sgi.com Sat Jun 2 09:18:19 2001 From: jh at sgi.com (John Hesterberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laser printer recommendation In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010602091819.A7074@sgi.com> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 07:22:23PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm finally getting around to buying a laser printer for home. I never print > color pictures, so I don't need an inkjet for anything. Of course, I need it > to be good, fast, and cheap. :-) (What do you mean I can only pick two?) > > Is is worth the money to get something that speaks PS natively? If not, I > imagine there are quite a few that would be OK. > > Any recommendations? Both PS and non-PS. > > -Tim I picked up a used Lexmark laser at the Surplus Store at MPC in Eagan. . I think I paid $65. The current page lists "HP LaserJet's starting from $45.00". John From simeonuj at eetc.com Sat Jun 2 09:42:33 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finally got DSL :-) Message-ID: <3B18FB55.2D17D5A5@eetc.com> It's up and running. Connection speed is great i.e. better than the fractionalized T1 at work most of the time. Although on a good day work kicks some major ***. Now I just have to run the etherenet cable to my computer upstairs. :-) BTW, UT works well too. sim From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sat Jun 2 10:09:47 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux In-Reply-To: <20010602043517.A2713@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 04:35:17AM -0500 References: <20010602043517.A2713@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010602100947.W4882@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010602 04:37]: > I understand it hardens linux. But what does it actually do? The FAQ and README > do not say anything about that. It fixes stuff that redhat left on by default or didn't ask you about first. :) Well, perhaps 7.x is getting better. I dont use it. I'm moving us from rh6.2 all over to progeny. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010602/22e5e83f/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sat Jun 2 10:13:28 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: ; from jts@tc.umn.edu on Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 06:19:56AM -0500 References: <200106011553.f51Fr2K30026@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010602101328.X4882@ringworld.org> * Joel T Schneider [010602 08:04]: > masses of business computer users couldn't care less about "the > community." By my definition, "the desktop" is different than "the > community" -- the government recently declared that Microsoft currently > enjoys effective monopoly control over "the desktop." Linux faces obsticales in presenting itself as 'the desktop' as the first-learning-time/chance to a user. Not that it cant do the same things. I've tought people how to use linux with very little windows experience at all and its fun to see them bitch and whine in front of a windows machine. :) Mind you, this isn't teaching them how to administrate a machine. Thats something thats being taken care of by Mandrake and Progeny. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010602/8edd3377/attachment.pgp From duncan at sodatrain.com Sat Jun 2 11:24:28 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux In-Reply-To: <20010602043517.A2713@real-time.com> Message-ID: it goes thru your system and has a check list of things to check based on your version of RH or mandrake... it will attempt to "harden" it by making various things more secure, while attempting to educate the user on what it is doing and why. For example, it will walk you thru a firewall config if you dont have one, it will walk you thru chroot'n BIND if you want, it asks if you want to remove various deamons on startup, wants to remove the sUID root on several things, if you want to restrict cron and other things to root, implements more logging (changes syslog conf), something about running FTP in passie mode i think.. it will create an undo script and a very verbose log of the things it did. It doesnt do anything you cant do by hd. I am running it on my server. One other thing that it does, is create a tmp dir for each user for each session in /tmp to isolate your temp files from others. The guy who writes it is semi-responsive to email. The final 1.2 release schedule has been "just a few more days" for the last month or so. On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > Ok, what does Bastille Linux really do? > > I understand it hardens linux. But what does it actually do? The FAQ and README > do not say anything about that. > > -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From jspinti at mn.rr.com Sat Jun 2 12:41:10 2001 From: jspinti at mn.rr.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: In my continuing saga to bring bad news... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01060212411000.01805@pii400> On Saturday 02 June 2001 06:19, you wrote: > > On a lighter note, Friday's Slashdot carried an interesting story > regarding recent remarks by Steve Ballmer (big kahuna at Microsoft): > > Ballmer Calls Linux "A Cancer" > http://slashdot.org/articles/01/06/01/1658258.shtml > > The following commentary, found in the discussion under the story, cracked > me up laughing... > > To Microsoft: This word you use ... Innovative ... I do not think it > means what you think it means. > > Joel > > (apologies to "The Princess Bride") > The one below it was even better: Ballmer: Ever hear of Stallman? de Icaza? TORVALDS? Dread Pirate Roberts: yes. Ballmer: Morons. Bryguy: "I've been slowly building up an immunity to proprietary software for the past 5 years" -- James Spinti jspinti@mn.rr.com From mccloud at wiredhot.net Sat Jun 2 15:13:39 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server In-Reply-To: <20010601233305.B12512@real-time.com> References: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:33:07AM -0500 Message-ID: <3B1902A3.11099.4DA1803@localhost> I got a scolding once because my clock was set to CST and not GMT (for the webserver). What do most do when setting the clock for webservers? On 1 Jun 2001, at 23:33, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] setting time from time server Send reply to: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Date sent: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:33:10 -0500 > > The simpelest way I know of is to install xntp > > rdate is even simpler. :) > > I just do 'rdate -s time.nist.gov' > then do 'hwclock -w' (or 'clock -w' will work on redhat) to set the > hardware clock to the software time. > > by the look of things, it may not be as accurate as ntpdate or xntpd; > but if a few seconds is close enough for you; it's probably good > enough. :) > > I used to just have a cron job that ran once a week, and used rdate > and clock to set the system clock against time.nist.gov. it's really > not the best thing if your system clock 'drifts' pretty badly, tho. > some programs don't react well to having the system time changed out > from under them. > > for a production environment, with many machines working in close > synchronization with each other (logging to a common loghost, for > instance); xntpd is definitely the way to go. > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 2 15:32:09 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux In-Reply-To: <200106021701.f52H19K28127@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > Ok, what does Bastille Linux really do? > > I understand it hardens linux. But what does it actually do? The FAQ and README > do not say anything about that. Mandrake 8 includes some Bastille stuff. Chapter 13 of the users guide talks a little bit about Bastille, but doesn't include too much detail, as the chapter mostly covers the bastille GUI configuration tools: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/fdoc.php3 The Mandrake 8 CDs include the following Bastille related RPMs: Bastille-1.2.0.rc3-0.1mdk.noarch.rpm Bastille-Chooser-1.2.0.rc3-0.1mdk.noarch.rpm Bastille-Curses-module-1.2.0.rc3-0.1mdk.noarch.rpm Bastille-Tk-module-1.2.0.rc3-0.1mdk.noarch.rpm Also required: perl-Curses-1.05-2mdk.i586.rpm perl-Tk-800.022-5mdk.i586.rpm The BastilleChooser and InteractiveBastille tools look pretty decent. However, as I haven't yet tried them out myself, that's about all I can really say... Joel --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 2 16:10:37 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <200106021701.f52H19K28127@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: KDE vs. GNOME?? Neither. I prefer Window Maker: http://windowmaker.org/ Add some dock apps, themes and transparent (tinted) aterms or eterms... Woohoo!! Joel From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 2 17:19:36 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: <200106021701.f52H19K28127@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 Scott Dier wrote: > Well, perhaps 7.x is getting better. I dont use it. I'm moving us from > rh6.2 all over to progeny. :) Is Progeny Debian 1.0 really pretty decent? I've heard good things about Progeny 1.0, saying it is a slim, trim, easier to install flavor of Debian. I also noticed that Micro Center is listed as one of the Progeny Debian Resellers. Might have to head over to St. Louis Park and pick up a copy... Joel --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From ben at nerp.net Sat Jun 2 17:22:25 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- yes.. i'm running on my progeny installed laptop. it has some trouble with X configuration on certin video chips (like the savage 4 in my laptop) but it's really nice overall.. i love debian anyway.. progeny makes it just that much nicer. at the IMA, I am looking to upgrade all of our redhat 6.2 machines to progeny Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Joel T Schneider wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 Scott Dier wrote: > > Well, perhaps 7.x is getting better. I dont use it. I'm moving us from > > rh6.2 all over to progeny. :) > > Is Progeny Debian 1.0 really pretty decent? > > I've heard good things about Progeny 1.0, saying it is a slim, trim, > easier to install flavor of Debian. > > I also noticed that Micro Center is listed as one of the Progeny Debian > Resellers. Might have to head over to St. Louis Park and pick up a > copy... > > Joel > > --- > Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxlnI8tpDhsSpvgtAQH2AAP+NQ5LYKqGlFcqGtkykQly0+amlrHZvQYe Xu3yFvkpBOhLzcS874ekgV5AdimUS1Uj0/amJS6OnotDsR//7mXrMSTMt1L9KXed EPAIF9uanZ1hz8eSc7OPEVr4oqWTEmwQueMHXKUnFIYDna2mqWb+/J317wpgDqPu 4sUK/AbGs6U= =5I/g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dave at droyer.org Sat Jun 2 17:28:46 2001 From: dave at droyer.org (David Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I tried Progeny on a box receintly here. The install is more graphical, and a little less confusing than the standard debian install, but I found it easier to start with the regular debian install. I had no need for X and Progeny does not give you the option of leaving out X. Dave On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Joel T Schneider wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 Scott Dier wrote: > > Well, perhaps 7.x is getting better. I dont use it. I'm moving us from > > rh6.2 all over to progeny. :) > > Is Progeny Debian 1.0 really pretty decent? > > I've heard good things about Progeny 1.0, saying it is a slim, trim, > easier to install flavor of Debian. > > I also noticed that Micro Center is listed as one of the Progeny Debian > Resellers. Might have to head over to St. Louis Park and pick up a > copy... > > Joel > > --- > Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ----- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum - Computer Networks From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 2 19:31:14 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Twin Cities Mech Wars probably on TV tonight Message-ID: <20010602193114.6e725f42.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Dunno if anyone else went to the TC Mech Wars (formerly `Robo Wars' until they got sued) today, but there should be some coverage of it on WCCO and KMSP tonight. I guess they're planning to run a few competitions each day at the Minnesota State Fair this fall. http://www.tcmechwars.com/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Cause of crash: / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Inadvertent contact with \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) the ground. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at umn.edu Sat Jun 2 20:30:18 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO Message-ID: <200106030130.UAA22506@www7.mail.umn.edu> If you didn't get the link to the DMT biased whitepaper I posted which has probably the best answers I've seen to your question, it's http://support.aware.com/technology/whitepapers/dmt.html Cheers, Phil M On or about 1 Jun 2001, Munir Nassar is alleged to have said: > is one better or faster than the other? why would they > switch? what are the pros and cons of each? > > -munir > --- Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > > > So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is CAP > > and DMT and if my modem > > > doesn't do those yet why should it? > > > > Your modem does one of the two. They are two of the > > encoding formats for > > DSL. Think of AM/FM, or better the two incompatible > > formats that were > > in use for 56K (still are?) a couple of years ago. > > > > CAP is Carrierless Amplitude/Phase modulation, and > > DMT is discrete > > multi-tone. It's the physical layer. If it works, > > don't worry about it > > -- but you might look at which you're using. > > > > -- > > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." > > --Anonymous > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ > PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > --Begin signature-- X ---End signature--- From veldy at veldy.net Sat Jun 2 21:49:52 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So Progeny is probably not a very good Server based distribution? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of David Royer Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 5:29 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) I tried Progeny on a box receintly here. The install is more graphical, and a little less confusing than the standard debian install, but I found it easier to start with the regular debian install. I had no need for X and Progeny does not give you the option of leaving out X. Dave On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Joel T Schneider wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 Scott Dier wrote: > > Well, perhaps 7.x is getting better. I dont use it. I'm moving us from > > rh6.2 all over to progeny. :) > > Is Progeny Debian 1.0 really pretty decent? > > I've heard good things about Progeny 1.0, saying it is a slim, trim, > easier to install flavor of Debian. > > I also noticed that Micro Center is listed as one of the Progeny Debian > Resellers. Might have to head over to St. Louis Park and pick up a > copy... > > Joel > > --- > Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ----- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum - Computer Networks _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jun 3 11:03:44 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Traffic to valinux.com? Message-ID: <20010603110344.C10469@sherohman.org> The last week or so, one of my machines has been logging a lot of ICMP destination unreachables from a VA Linux address. But I have no idea why it would be talking to VA at all. I've set up an ngrep session to log all traffic to and from 198.186.200.0/22, which is the block containing the address sending me the dest unreachables, but is there a better way to find out why this box keeps talking to them? (And no, it's not offering any services other than ssh, so VA shouldn't be the ones initiating the connections. Nor was it bought from them or ever had anything to do with the company aside from maybe viewing their website once or twice.) -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 11:26:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding Message-ID: I've got two quickies (maybe 3) about port forwarding on a NAT firewall. I'm using ipmasqadm portfw, kernel v2.2.19 or thereabouts on a CoyoteLinux box. 1: ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L (local addr) 80 -R (masq'd addr) 80 seems to set up the forward I want. What I read in the docs indicates that the return ports should already be covered by the normal masq behavior. Is this true, or do I need to set up a return path? 2: Any better recommendations on IPChains than the IPChains-HOWTO? And what happened to the MASQ/NAT stuff Amy had put up on the mn-linux web site? 3: Has anyone noticed / can anyone explain why on a 486 box, when ipchains or the routing table are listed, at least the first time, it takes a *really* long time for them to respond with the table? I mean that ipchains -L gives the headers, but then waits like a _minute_ or two. If you're patient, it comes, and after that is fast. What's making it think so hard the first time? Thanks! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From blutgens at sistina.com Sun Jun 3 11:34:02 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] va system-imager Message-ID: <20010603113402.C11639@minime.sistina.com> Hi all, I am sitting here at work reinstalling 30 servers before the first official class of GFS100 next week. I decided to use VA's system-imager (http://systemimager.org) and let me tell you it's fantastic. I have 3 images: memexp-node, gfs-node, and mgmt-workstation. Each machines MAC is plugged into /etc/dhcpd.conf on the system-imager server, and that corresonds to a dynamically assinged static IP, which corresponds to a hostname (obviously). I drop a cd in each machine, reboot and wait a minute or two and blamo. It's done. each machine is freshly installed. Granted I do them one at a time with a monitor on the box so I can make sure all goes well. But eventually I'll automate the whole process. If you maintain serveral machines with similar configurations systemimager is the way to go. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010603/33ed80fd/attachment.pgp From ben at nerp.net Sun Jun 3 12:03:55 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Traffic to valinux.com? In-Reply-To: <20010603110344.C10469@sherohman.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- odd.. any specific hostnames the traffic is coming from? this could be responses to spoofed packets, with your address as the spoofed source. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > The last week or so, one of my machines has been logging a lot of ICMP > destination unreachables from a VA Linux address. But I have no idea why it > would be talking to VA at all. > > I've set up an ngrep session to log all traffic to and from 198.186.200.0/22, > which is the block containing the address sending me the dest unreachables, > but is there a better way to find out why this box keeps talking to them? > (And no, it's not offering any services other than ssh, so VA shouldn't be > the ones initiating the connections. Nor was it bought from them or ever had > anything to do with the company aside from maybe viewing their website once > or twice.) > > -- > That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen > Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ > o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxpt/ctpDhsSpvgtAQGqMgP9FmB2IrN/REwbNmtwJlH+Sa+x6Pwv+LOA mMm5S9yRWWdYn8omwwq7U+JWEbWQxK+kcCjwZx1yTVOC/tFAWtfcJ77sYh49NIvN gnQlYyiYmNe+dETIit8/SewOo10btGg2CXLxOtKvTQ5ltWCY4lTFtqdnbkwAeS06 x+wIam53nI8= =B/bY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 12:06:26 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010603120626.1b9b0b9b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > 1: > > ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L (local addr) 80 -R (masq'd addr) 80 > > seems to set up the forward I want. What I read in the docs > indicates that the return ports should already be covered by > the normal masq behavior. Is this true, or do I need to set up > a return path? It worked for me. > 3: > Has anyone noticed / can anyone explain why on a 486 box, when > ipchains or the routing table are listed, at least the first > time, it takes a *really* long time for them to respond with > the table? I mean that ipchains -L gives the headers, but then > waits like a _minute_ or two. If you're patient, it comes, and > after that is fast. What's making it think so hard the first time? It's doing a reverse DNS lookup on the IP addresses. Using `ipchains -L -n' should be a lot faster. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Isn't Disney World a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ people trap operated by \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) a mouse? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 12:08:01 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Traffic to valinux.com? In-Reply-To: <20010603110344.C10469@sherohman.org> References: <20010603110344.C10469@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010603120801.5b0e9c49.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Dave Sherohman wrote: > > The last week or so, one of my machines has been logging a lot of ICMP > destination unreachables from a VA Linux address. But I have no idea > why it would be talking to VA at all. > > I've set up an ngrep session to log all traffic to and from > 198.186.200.0/22, which is the block containing the address sending me > the dest unreachables, but is there a better way to find out why this > box keeps talking to them? My first thought is that the address looks strikingly similar to 192.168.x.y, one of the internal address ranges. There might just be a misconfiguration somewhere, a typo or something. When I was at the U, I once logged some telnet connection attempts from a system at the National Guard in California. You can imagine how spooked I was to see a .mil address in my logs ;-) However, it just happened that someone had typed an IP address incorrectly. Dig around, see what you can find. If you still can't figure anything out, get in contact with your ISP and/or VA. There's a decent chance that someone else is scratching their head trying to figure it out. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ You have saved our lives, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ we are eternally \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) grateful! [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 12:12:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding In-Reply-To: <20010603120626.1b9b0b9b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > It worked for me. Thanks -- I thought I had it, but punctuation being what it is... > > 3: > > Has anyone noticed / can anyone explain why on a 486 box, when > > ipchains or the routing table are listed, at least the first > > time, it takes a *really* long time for them to respond with > > the table? I mean that ipchains -L gives the headers, but then > > waits like a _minute_ or two. If you're patient, it comes, and > > after that is fast. What's making it think so hard the first time? > > It's doing a reverse DNS lookup on the IP addresses. Using `ipchains -L > -n' should be a lot faster. OK. I bet that's what I'm seeing with the port forwarding too. I've got DNS set up, but reverse is still pending between granitecanyon and my ISP (just made some changes.) That's a little bit important, eh? Cheers, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dave at droyer.org Sun Jun 3 13:15:25 2001 From: dave at droyer.org (Dave Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991592133.2469.2.camel@merlin> You could certainly apt-get remove the stuff you don't want, but for a server I'd rather just install the stuff I want rather than the other way around. I do have to give them credit though, it is a better install for people new to linux or debian. Like anything designed to make things simpler, you lose some of the functionality. Dave On 02 Jun 2001 21:49:52 -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > So Progeny is probably not a very good Server based distribution? > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > From jethro at freakzilla.com Sun Jun 3 13:35:52 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki Game Order Message-ID: Hey all, Ok, I've closed the order form thing. Expect confirmation Emails as soon as I figure out why I can't send mail from perl anymore (damn thing worked 10 minutes ago! Argh!) You _must_ reply to these Emails! Also note there are some games I DON'T KNOW THE PRICES FOR. If such a title is in your order, it will be noted, and your total price will, obviously, not include those titles (you'll get a subtotal for the other titles). Later, -Yaron -- From jethro at freakzilla.com Sun Jun 3 13:44:27 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More Loki games stuff Message-ID: Hey, Ok, I've sent out the confirmation mails, and they haven't bounced yet. If you don't get the confirmation Email reasonably soon, let me know. -Yaron -- From clay at fandre.com Sun Jun 3 13:57:18 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server References: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:33:07AM -0500 <3B1902A3.11099.4DA1803@localhost> Message-ID: <3B1A888E.7488F6D7@fandre.com> Bob McCloud wrote: > > I got a scolding once because my clock was set to CST and not > GMT (for the webserver). What do most do when setting the clock > for webservers? > I would definately set my HW clock to GMT time for a server. This way you don't have to worry about daylight savings on your HW clock. (OS should take care of it) But for a desktop you might want to stick to your local timezone. Especially if you're dual-booting since Windows (AFAIK) doesn't really like to use GMT time. From jethro at freakzilla.com Sun Jun 3 14:36:56 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKIGAMES further clarification Message-ID: Hey, Ok, I don't know how mayment will be handled yet. Next Monday (June 11th) I will send Loki the list of games we want, and see if they accept it. THEN we'll worry about payment. It is most likely that we'll want it in advance. Everyone will pay one person who'll pay Loki. Loki definetly don't want multiple payments. -Yaron -- From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun Jun 3 14:50:40 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: ; from jts@tc.umn.edu on Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 05:19:36PM -0500 References: <200106021701.f52H19K28127@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010603145039.E4882@ringworld.org> * Joel T Schneider [010602 17:20]: > I also noticed that Micro Center is listed as one of the Progeny Debian > Resellers. Might have to head over to St. Louis Park and pick up a > copy... And they do have copies, last i checked. Move them all in front of the redhat stuff if you can for me :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010603/497de587/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun Jun 3 14:52:19 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] va system-imager In-Reply-To: <20010603113402.C11639@minime.sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:34:02AM -0500 References: <20010603113402.C11639@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010603145219.F4882@ringworld.org> * Ben Lutgens [010603 11:35]: > If you maintain serveral machines with similar configurations systemimager is > the way to go. I'm working with the progeny autoinstall to get it working for large dis-similar amounts of similar-software configuration right now. It rules :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010603/3661da24/attachment.pgp From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 14:57:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: <20010603145039.E4882@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > And they do have copies, last i checked. > > Move them all in front of the redhat stuff if you can for me :) I haven't gotten far with Progeny, but I did find one corporatism. You can apt-get dist upgrade from Debian if you put the right line in /etc/apt/sources.list, but you can't install from scratch without buying a boxed set. I guess you can always install Debian and then upgrade, if you need it for free (cash). -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 15:00:37 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A new half price book/music/software store has openend way out on university just outside coon rapids. Most of there stuff pretty good, They had a decent selection of Linux games. Damn cheap, the books and cd's were too. Colin From sraun at fireopal.org Sun Jun 3 15:19:51 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! In-Reply-To: ; from colin@tyr.med.umn.edu on Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:00:37PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010603151951.C22952@iaxs.net> On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:00:37PM -0500, Colin Kilbane wrote: > A new half price book/music/software store has openend way out on > university just outside coon rapids. Most of there stuff pretty good, > They had a decent selection of Linux games. Damn cheap, the books and > cd's were too. How far north of 694 is this? And what's the exact store name? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 15:25:10 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! In-Reply-To: <20010603151951.C22952@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Half price books. I don't exactly know how far it is but it is up by the mall. Colin From seg at haxxed.com Sun Jun 3 16:32:17 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! References: Message-ID: <3B1AACE1.9D759C12@haxxed.com> Colin Kilbane wrote: > > Half price books. I don't exactly know how far it is but it is up by the > mall. Which mall? Wha? Be more specific. ;P From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun Jun 3 17:26:27 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010603172627.A21402@ringworld.org> * Phil Mendelsohn [010603 14:58]: > /etc/apt/sources.list, but you can't install from scratch without buying a > boxed set. Download the ISO. The supported install method is only from CD. ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/progeny/images/ AFAIK. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010603/52e605f9/attachment.pgp From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 17:51:40 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: <20010603172627.A21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > * Phil Mendelsohn [010603 14:58]: > > /etc/apt/sources.list, but you can't install from scratch without buying a > > boxed set. > > Download the ISO. The supported install method is only from CD. Doesn't help -- no burner. But it's more than happy to do it as an upgrade to my existing Deb system(s). :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Sun Jun 3 19:17:44 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! In-Reply-To: <3B1AACE1.9D759C12@haxxed.com>; from seg@haxxed.com on Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:32:17PM -0500 References: <3B1AACE1.9D759C12@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010603191744.A24488@iaxs.net> On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:32:17PM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Colin Kilbane wrote: > > > > Half price books. I don't exactly know how far it is but it is up by the > > mall. > > Which mall? Wha? Be more specific. ;P Northtown Mall. IIRC, it should be in the 3-8 miles north of I-694 on University. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From fertch at mninter.net Sun Jun 3 20:38:15 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! References: <3B1AACE1.9D759C12@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <3B1AE687.FE4186A5@mninter.net> Half price books is in Maplewood, near the Maplewood Mall off of Beam Ave. Next to Burlington coat factory. I picked up about 4 games from them for about $15 each. Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Colin Kilbane wrote: > > > > Half price books. I don't exactly know how far it is but it is up by the > > mall. > > Which mall? Wha? Be more specific. ;P > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From aton at skyenet.net Sun Jun 3 20:39:53 2001 From: aton at skyenet.net (Aton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Port forwarding (Phil Mendelsohn) In-Reply-To: <200106031701.f53H13K15817@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200106040135.f541ZfPF005322@pop.skyenet.net> >From: Phil Mendelsohn >Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding >I've got two quickies (maybe 3) about port forwarding on a NAT >firewall. I'm using ipmasqadm portfw, kernel v2.2.19 or thereabouts on a >CoyoteLinux box. > >1: > > ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L (local addr) 80 -R (masq'd addr) 80 > > seems to set up the forward I want. What I read in the docs > indicates that the return ports should already be covered by > the normal masq behavior. Is this true, or do I need to set up > a return path? That should work fine, but I would HIGHLY recommend moving a 2.4 based kernel and use iptables. The functionality is emmensely more powerful. >2: > Any better recommendations on IPChains than the IPChains-HOWTO? And > what happened to the MASQ/NAT stuff Amy had put up on the mn-linux web > site? > >3: > Has anyone noticed / can anyone explain why on a 486 box, when > ipchains or the routing table are listed, at least the first > time, it takes a *really* long time for them to respond with > the table? I mean that ipchains -L gives the headers, but then > waits like a _minute_ or two. If you're patient, it comes, and > after that is fast. What's making it think so hard the first time? Its waitng to resolve names. Use ipchains -L -n to output in numerical output only. Later, A From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jun 3 20:48:54 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: Progeny Debian (was Re: [TCLUG] Bastille Linux) In-Reply-To: <20010603145039.E4882@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010603204854.A15067@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:50:40PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > * Joel T Schneider [010602 17:20]: > > I also noticed that Micro Center is listed as one of the Progeny Debian > > Resellers. Might have to head over to St. Louis Park and pick up a > > copy... > > And they do have copies, last i checked. Yep. I was there today and there were 2 boxes on the shelf. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 20:52:09 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LInux games! In-Reply-To: <3B1AE687.FE4186A5@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Shawn wrote: > Half price books is in Maplewood, near the Maplewood Mall off of Beam > Ave. Next to Burlington coat factory. I picked up about 4 games from > them for about $15 each. Actually, they have a few stores. There used to be one in the skyway in St. Paul somewhere (Galtier plaza?). Turns out the guy that owns them all lives at the end of my street; met him at a block club meeting. Nice guy, never home. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 20:54:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Port forwarding (Phil Mendelsohn) In-Reply-To: <200106040135.f541ZfPF005322@pop.skyenet.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Aton wrote: > >1: > > > > ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L (local addr) 80 -R (masq'd addr) 80 > > > > seems to set up the forward I want. What I read in the docs > > indicates that the return ports should already be covered by > > the normal masq behavior. Is this true, or do I need to set up > > a return path? > > That should work fine, but I would HIGHLY recommend moving a 2.4 based > kernel and use iptables. The functionality is emmensely more powerful. Yeah, I think the stateful forwarding connections sound nifty. But I think I'll get this one little forward working before I confuse myself! > Its waitng to resolve names. Use ipchains -L -n to output in numerical > output only. Thanks! Mike H. said the same thing and it must be true since you're both right! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jun 3 21:49:41 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday Message-ID: <20010603214941.0ebd0152.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Okay, so my last media alert didn't really work out. I saw a short 20 second blip of coverage of Mech Wars on Ch. 9, but nothing on WCCO (even though they had a reporter there the whole time). Maybe something will show up tonight. Anyway, this one is a little more likely: Linus Torvalds is expected to be on National Public Radio's Fresh Air program tomorrow. I guess it's broadcast from 8-9 PM here in Minnesota. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Well, you know, no matter / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ where you go, there you \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) are. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From jacque at fruitioninc.com Sun Jun 3 22:28:05 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: <20010603214941.0ebd0152.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: > Anyway, this one is a little more likely: Linus Torvalds is expected to > be on National Public Radio's Fresh Air program tomorrow. I guess it's > broadcast from 8-9 PM here in Minnesota. > http://freshair.npr.org/ You can listen to the archives online, if you miss the show. ~j From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun Jun 3 22:38:41 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010601123146.0293917f.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20010601123146.0293917f.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: "Bill Layer" writes: > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:20:42 -0500 (CDT) > "Brian" wrote: > If anyone here has > > a qowrst.net account you can download CBOS 2.4.2 at: > > > > https://www.qwest.net/tools/ppp/cbos > > You find a link to CBOS 2.4.2 here? I don't... and if I click on the > 'Non-Windows Download' button, it just dumpms me on a Qwest.net FAQ ?! > This page seems to focus on 2.2.0... a truly exploitable version. Man, > Qwest is behind.. I get what you just described, both parts. > PS I have 2.4.1 if anyone wants it.. but I'd like to get my hands on > 2.4.2, just 'cause that's how I am. I know why I wanted to get up to 2.2 (virtual ethernet ports). Why do I want to get up to 2.4? -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From jethro at freakzilla.com Sun Jun 3 23:33:53 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: Hey, Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they were like $5 for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY large amounts of failed burns on them? So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! -Yaron -- From mccloud at wiredhot.net Mon Jun 4 00:11:15 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting time from time server In-Reply-To: <3B1A888E.7488F6D7@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3B1AD223.31050.4527CEC@localhost> thanks to dave and clay :) That brings the total to three.....I'm changing to GMT... Bob On 3 Jun 2001, at 13:57, Clay Fandre wrote: From: Clay Fandre To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] setting time from time server Send reply to: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Date sent: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 13:57:18 -0500 > Bob McCloud wrote: > > > > I got a scolding once because my clock was set to CST and not > > GMT (for the webserver). What do most do when setting the clock for > > webservers? > > > > I would definately set my HW clock to GMT time for a server. This way > you don't have to worry about daylight savings on your HW clock. (OS > should take care of it) But for a desktop you might want to stick to > your local timezone. Especially if you're dual-booting since Windows > (AFAIK) doesn't really like to use GMT time. > _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing > list tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Jun 4 00:38:07 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? Message-ID: I'm playing with this upgrade on my secondary server; it's up and DNS appears to be working, which is its only semi-critical function. So that's good. But after the upgrade, I see I have an "ipchains" rpm installed, but no iptables. And when I run /sbin/ipchains, it tells me it's not compatible with this kernel (7.1 is a 2.4 kernel, I was previously running a 2.2). Now, I see the iptables rpm, and I could install that, but what the heck kind of an "upgrade" process is this anyway? -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 4 04:11:21 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? Message-ID: <20010604041121.O18947@real-time.com> I have started a project on sourceforge turning all the useful/necessary java projects into rpms. http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/rte For you java developers are there, what java projects/packages am I missing? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From JMiller2 at dainrauscher.com Mon Jun 4 06:51:07 2001 From: JMiller2 at dainrauscher.com (Miller, John) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940F83A8@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. John Miller Dain Rauscher Inc. Application Services IS Capital Markets Phone 612-547-7573 Fax 612-547-7580 mailto:jmiller2@dainrauscher.com -----Original Message----- From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:34 PM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Hey, Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they were like $5 for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY large amounts of failed burns on them? So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 06:54:18 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 3 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > I know why I wanted to get up to 2.2 (virtual ethernet ports). Why do > I want to get up to 2.4? MD5 password encoding is a good reason. And here's the list from cisco, which looks like pretty much passwords again, for practical purposes. ---- Resolved Issues in CBOS Release 2.4.2 The following issues have been resolved in CBOS 2.4.2. CSCds87618 Setting VIP interrupt(s) to inside now sets non-Wan0-0 interrupt(s) to inside. CSCds89064 Passwords can now include uppercase letters. CSCdt04882 Passwords can now be stored in encrypted format in NVRAM. CSCdt12551 Help for the set int wanx standard command is now displayed when using G.DMT. CSCdt29157 Pinging with record routes and large packet sizes now works properly with the Cisco 677 CPE. CSCdt30943 The RIP Database now handles metric comparisons properly. CSCdt34289 The correct information on VPI/VCI range configuration is included in the CBOS 2.3.9 Release Notes. CSCdt50680 After enabling RFC1483, CBOS 2.4.2 now issues a prompt that a reboot is required. CSCdt52108 The snmpwalk to dsl modem command no longer shows a value of 0 for some OIDs. CSCdt68856 Non-classfull masks on eth0 are now advertised properly by RIPv1. CSCdt59082 The Net Meeting NAT command syntax is correct. > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 07:03:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > But after the upgrade, I see I have an "ipchains" rpm installed, but > no iptables. And when I run /sbin/ipchains, it tells me it's not > compatible with this kernel (7.1 is a 2.4 kernel, I was previously > running a 2.2). Now, I see the iptables rpm, and I could install > that, but what the heck kind of an "upgrade" process is this anyway? 2.4 rewrote all that packet filtering stuff to the netfilter stuff, but you knew that, right? ipchains won't work, looks like iptables _is_ what you need, and all I can tell you is that it's _not_ a Debian upgrade process. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jun 4 08:08:50 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940F83A8@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Message-ID: <005701c0ecf7$7fc81470$3028680a@tgt.com> My biggest problem with the PNY CDRs is that occassionaly you will find that the "silver" label on top flakes off. The flakes even show up in the CDRW drive. No good. Once a scratch forms on the label, it can peel off from there. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller, John" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:51 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. > > John Miller > Dain Rauscher Inc. > Application Services > IS Capital Markets > Phone 612-547-7573 > Fax 612-547-7580 > mailto:jmiller2@dainrauscher.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:34 PM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > Hey, > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they were like $5 > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY large amounts > of failed burns on them? > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 08:26:57 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <005701c0ecf7$7fc81470$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > My biggest problem with the PNY CDRs is that occassionaly you will find that > the "silver" label on top flakes off. The flakes even show up in the CDRW > drive. No good. Once a scratch forms on the label, it can peel off from > there. It's worse than that. If you mean that if flakes off so that you can see through the little hole if you hold it up to the light, that's because the silver label isn't a label -- it's the reflective layer the disc needs to work properly. I don't know who makes the discs for PNY, buy it's not Taiyo-Yuden -- that's who I used to use (Sony discs are T-Y). Unfortunately, they're never that cheap. :( -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon Jun 4 08:42:16 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? References: Message-ID: <3B1B9034.FE811AD7@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On 4 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > But after the upgrade, I see I have an "ipchains" rpm installed, but > > no iptables. And when I run /sbin/ipchains, it tells me it's not > > compatible with this kernel (7.1 is a 2.4 kernel, I was previously > > running a 2.2). Now, I see the iptables rpm, and I could install > > that, but what the heck kind of an "upgrade" process is this anyway? > > 2.4 rewrote all that packet filtering stuff to the netfilter stuff, but > you knew that, right? ipchains won't work, looks like iptables _is_ what > you need, and all I can tell you is that it's _not_ a Debian upgrade > process. ;) I installed 7.1 and IPChains is there but only as a module. They each (iptables/ipchains) have there own startup scripts too. You should be able to just insert the module and use ipchains without a problem. IIRC it was configurable in the installation. Mine actually used ipchains by default. 2.4 did rewrite it all but ipchains is still available as a module. I think the 2.0 kernel filter is also available as a module. IPFilter? Or you could just upgrade to iptables and join the truly elite. ;-) sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon Jun 4 08:42:26 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940F83A8@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <005701c0ecf7$7fc81470$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B1B903F.DFB2AC6A@eetc.com> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > My biggest problem with the PNY CDRs is that occassionaly you will find that > the "silver" label on top flakes off. The flakes even show up in the CDRW > drive. No good. Once a scratch forms on the label, it can peel off from > there. Try putting a sticker label on them. Cheap CD's fail alot because of the lack of solid backing. Kinda like looking into a mirror without the reflective backing. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miller, John" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:51 AM > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. You can get a CD labeler i.e. a bunch of stickers that you can print on, and they might not be a complete waiste. You should label them befor burning though. That might help. Or just stick some tape on the damn thing and see how it works. :-) Since there so cheap I would just chuck them or use them for something that isn't important. Tip - If you can see light through the CD it's not worth buying and will cause you trouble. If the backing flakes off it will definetely cause you trouble. sim From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jun 4 08:51:52 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940F83A8@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <005701c0ecf7$7fc81470$3028680a@tgt.com> <3B1B903F.DFB2AC6A@eetc.com> Message-ID: <007001c0ecfd$83685df0$3028680a@tgt.com> I burn way to many CD's to bother with sticker labels. I think I might just buy the "silver" disks that they rave about online. I like a label to write on, but I can just as well write on the disk itself. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simeon Johnston" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > > My biggest problem with the PNY CDRs is that occassionaly you will find that > > the "silver" label on top flakes off. The flakes even show up in the CDRW > > drive. No good. Once a scratch forms on the label, it can peel off from > > there. > > Try putting a sticker label on them. Cheap CD's fail alot because of the lack > of solid backing. Kinda like looking into a mirror without the reflective > backing. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Miller, John" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:51 AM > > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. > > You can get a CD labeler i.e. a bunch of stickers that you can print on, and > they might not be a complete waiste. You should label them befor burning > though. That might help. Or just stick some tape on the damn thing and see > how it works. > :-) > Since there so cheap I would just chuck them or use them for something that > isn't important. > > Tip - If you can see light through the CD it's not worth buying and will cause > you trouble. If the backing flakes off it will definetely cause you trouble. > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 09:02:52 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <007001c0ecfd$83685df0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > I burn way to many CD's to bother with sticker labels. I think I might just > buy the "silver" disks that they rave about online. I like a label to write > on, but I can just as well write on the disk itself. Sharpie marker is the tool. There was quite a little flame war among mastering guys a few years back about whether 'twas better to label or not. One problem with labels is that if you put a label on a disc with a flaky reflective layer (pun intended), should you try and remove it to relabel you might pull huge chunks of it off! You can't put too many labels on top, because if the disc gets too thick, it might be oversized for the players. I have run into odd players where one label was too thick, but that't a player you'd want to stay away from anyway. If you really use that many discs, set up an acct. with Tape Distributors and buy 'em wholesale. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 4 09:12:12 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > But after the upgrade, I see I have an "ipchains" rpm installed, but > no iptables. And when I run /sbin/ipchains, it tells me it's not > compatible with this kernel (7.1 is a 2.4 kernel, I was previously > running a 2.2). Now, I see the iptables rpm, and I could install > that, but what the heck kind of an "upgrade" process is this anyway? Sounds like you only upgraded the packages you had installed to the versions in 7.1, or missed some important packages along the way. Your ipchains problem is a 2.2 to 2.4 issue. ipchains was replaced with netfilter in 2.4 (iptables.) ipchains and the older ipfwadm are still available, but only as modules. So before using ipchains, you have to modprobe ipchains. Add it to your firewall script (or ipchains init script) and you should be set. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Mon Jun 4 09:20:45 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010601150749.28384.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15131.39229.876278.979170@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Over time I've become a big fan of KDE. There are two reasons I favor KDE: 1. Subjective impression that it's more solid. I've just had more gnome things go south on me, and more of the gnome apps seem to be beta-ish. But then, I haven't ever tried KOffice --- your mileage may vary. 2. Subjective impression of better UI. For example, at least at the most recent Gnome I tried, their help browser had no search feature! This seems totally goofy to me. gnorpm has a UI that I find almost totally inscrutable, etc., etc. Of course, KDE has the totally annoying one-click-to-activate misfeature. But by and large, I find it superior. Oh, yes, and it's centered around konqueror, which I feel to be the best browser available for linux, bar none. Cheers, R From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jun 4 09:22:44 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: Message-ID: <008401c0ed01$d282edc0$3028680a@tgt.com> I use about 200 disks a year. It is a pain in the but to label them all. I just write on the disk and go. Much of it is large works in progress (snapshots if you will) and FreeBSD snapshot binary disks as well as various Linux distributions. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > I burn way to many CD's to bother with sticker labels. I think I might just > > buy the "silver" disks that they rave about online. I like a label to write > > on, but I can just as well write on the disk itself. > > Sharpie marker is the tool. There was quite a little flame war among > mastering guys a few years back about whether 'twas better to label or > not. One problem with labels is that if you put a label on a disc with a > flaky reflective layer (pun intended), should you try and remove it to > relabel you might pull huge chunks of it off! You can't put too many > labels on top, because if the disc gets too thick, it might be oversized > for the players. I have run into odd players where one label was too > thick, but that't a player you'd want to stay away from anyway. > > If you really use that many discs, set up an acct. with Tape Distributors > and buy 'em wholesale. > > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jun 4 09:25:23 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They suck. They are 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely disappointed with them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:34 PM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > Hey, > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they > were like $5 > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY > large amounts > of failed burns on them? > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jun 4 09:25:23 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They suck. They are 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely disappointed with them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. > -----Original Message----- > From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:34 PM > To: TCLUG > Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > Hey, > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they > were like $5 > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY > large amounts > of failed burns on them? > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Mon Jun 4 09:31:37 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: Message-ID: <3B1B9BC9.4C59689@mninter.net> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > If you really use that many discs, set up an acct. with Tape Distributors > and buy 'em wholesale. What about good rewriteables if you chuck out the old ones often? From jasonj at talkware.net Mon Jun 4 09:37:15 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? Message-ID: <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the network. However we are using switches for security and the switches only have capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all traffic, just like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some suggestions on switches that would have more than one monitoring port. Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. From ben at nerp.net Mon Jun 4 09:48:24 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? In-Reply-To: <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- why in the world would you need both linux servers to have access to all traffic on the network, that's a really _bad_ idea when it comes to bandwidth, AND security. the whole point of having a switch is so that traffic between hosts doesn't affect traffic between other servers and hosts. if you need to do failover, the 2 linux servers should have an active connection between them, which doesn't require that they monitor traffic. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so > that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux > boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the network. However > we are using switches for security and the switches only have > capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all traffic, just > like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 > switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some > suggestions on switches that would have more than one monitoring port. > Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxufuctpDhsSpvgtAQGRwAQAjsqvjJcMHoYsH4ElrXqPG5E9OCML8qsK fonuM1taK5tQ7vzTbWyDE8FY1ePv3NmIWzUEn3TXlsjWNnhlbpEGa1/kqOKFLE0A XPwZw17mgkLNN3xXauIvUzHriXyPO04okIfS9DlUZM2c39T+V8vOsNSdS8TQCfCW Ia14Xe//qh4= =a+7V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jun 4 09:53:33 2001 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:37:15 CDT." <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> References: <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20010604145333.56D2E183E9@skuld.wk> In message <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net>, Jason Jorgensen writes: > We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 switches to allow > the bridges to work properly. So I would like some suggestions on > switches that would have more than one monitoring port. Right now > we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. Use the HP ProCurve 4000M switches. VERY nice. I wouldn't get anything else. Very powerful. Very configurable. Hot swappable port cards, including gigabit and fiber. Hot swappable power supplies. Expandable. Managed. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 09:57:59 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <008401c0ed01$d282edc0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > I use about 200 disks a year. It is a pain in the but to label them all. I > just write on the disk and go. Much of it is large works in progress > (snapshots if you will) and FreeBSD snapshot binary disks as well as various > Linux distributions. You could still probably do whole sale with Tape Distrib. Or maybe we should do a LUG buying coop through my old acct... hrm. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 10:00:53 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <3B1B9BC9.4C59689@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Shawn wrote: > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > If you really use that many discs, set up an acct. with Tape Distributors > > and buy 'em wholesale. > > > What about good rewriteables if you chuck out the old ones often? From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Jun 4 10:24:04 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? References: <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> <20010604145333.56D2E183E9@skuld.wk> Message-ID: <3B1BA814.7B642BDD@structural-wood.com> "Chad C. Walstrom" wrote: > > In message <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net>, Jason Jorgensen writes: > > We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 switches to allow > > the bridges to work properly. So I would like some suggestions on > > switches that would have more than one monitoring port. Right now > > we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > Use the HP ProCurve 4000M switches. VERY nice. I wouldn't get > anything else. Very powerful. Very configurable. Hot swappable port > cards, including gigabit and fiber. Hot swappable power supplies. Expandable. > Managed. > I heartily agree. These are absolutely flawless and a joy to work with. They even operate in moderately harsh environments (we have one in a wood working area that is exposed to outside humidity and temp, and it never has any problems). From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jun 4 10:27:07 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280863@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Why do you want to set up SPAN ports for this? Do you have multiple VLAN's that you want to pass across the bridge? You should be able to just plug them in and make sure spanning tree is configured properly. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Kochie [mailto:ben@nerp.net] > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:48 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > why in the world would you need both linux servers to have > access to all > traffic on the network, that's a really _bad_ idea when it comes to > bandwidth, AND security. the whole point of having a switch > is so that > traffic between hosts doesn't affect traffic between other servers and > hosts. if you need to do failover, the 2 linux servers should have an > active connection between them, which doesn't require that > they monitor > traffic. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > > > We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so > > that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux > > boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the > network. However > > we are using switches for security and the switches only have > > capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all > traffic, just > > like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on > each of our 2 > > switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some > > suggestions on switches that would have more than one > monitoring port. > > Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOxufuctpDhsSpvgtAQGRwAQAjsqvjJcMHoYsH4ElrXqPG5E9OCML8qsK > fonuM1taK5tQ7vzTbWyDE8FY1ePv3NmIWzUEn3TXlsjWNnhlbpEGa1/kqOKFLE0A > XPwZw17mgkLNN3xXauIvUzHriXyPO04okIfS9DlUZM2c39T+V8vOsNSdS8TQCfCW > Ia14Xe//qh4= > =a+7V > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jun 4 10:47:12 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <15131.39229.876278.979170@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20010604104712.C21402@ringworld.org> * Robert P. Goldman [010604 09:21]: > 2. Subjective impression of better UI. For example, at least at the > most recent Gnome I tried, their help browser had no search feature! whatis: is what your looking for. Took me 3 seconds in the gnome help to find that. > This seems totally goofy to me. gnorpm has a UI that I find almost > totally inscrutable, etc., etc. rpm's blow :) Progeny has some nifty gnome-based utilities for managing package sets, but for package-stuff-munging dselect still rules all. :) > centered around konqueror, which I feel to be the best browser Uhhh. ok. It cant do the CSS i spew, nor does it have full emcascript support. :) Plus, mozilla .9 and beyond are getting pretty amazingly fast. Plus, I dont have to load a huge amount of KDE libs for only one application. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010604/f0531450/attachment.pgp From jethro at yaron.org Mon Jun 4 11:07:37 2001 From: jethro at yaron.org (jethro@yaron.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <991670857.3b1bb249ccc36@dragon> Hey, Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They suck. They are > 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely disappointed with > them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. Count me in on that - let me know who/how you're sending it in and I'll send one too. -Yaron -- From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Jun 4 11:12:51 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? In-Reply-To: <3B1B9034.FE811AD7@eetc.com> References: <3B1B9034.FE811AD7@eetc.com> Message-ID: Simeon Johnston writes: > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On 4 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > > > But after the upgrade, I see I have an "ipchains" rpm installed, but > > > no iptables. And when I run /sbin/ipchains, it tells me it's not > > > compatible with this kernel (7.1 is a 2.4 kernel, I was previously > > > running a 2.2). Now, I see the iptables rpm, and I could install > > > that, but what the heck kind of an "upgrade" process is this anyway? > > > > 2.4 rewrote all that packet filtering stuff to the netfilter stuff, but > > you knew that, right? ipchains won't work, looks like iptables _is_ what > > you need, and all I can tell you is that it's _not_ a Debian upgrade > > process. ;) Replying to two layers in one response, yes I know they changed the firewalling stuff completely. I'm generally unimpressed with package upgrades using RPM because it almost always sets aside my carefully-constructed config file and puts in a default one that's useless. And doesn't specifically warn me in the cases where the format or required contents changed thoroughly so I have to recreate my configuration from scratch. So, does Debian handle that better? > I installed 7.1 and IPChains is there but only as a module. They each > (iptables/ipchains) have there own startup scripts too. > You should be able to just insert the module and use ipchains without a > problem. > IIRC it was configurable in the installation. Mine actually used ipchains > by default. > 2.4 did rewrite it all but ipchains is still available as a module. I think > the 2.0 kernel filter is also available as a module. IPFilter? > Or you could just upgrade to iptables and join the truly elite. ;-) Well, if I could convert my existing ipchains firewall rules easily, that'd make sense. What I actually got after my upgrade (upgrade, not new install, remember) is that there's an ipchains startup script and an ipchains rpm installed, and no iptables rpm installed and no iptables startup script. The ipchains rpm is the same version that's on the 7.1 install CD. But when I actually run ipchains, it complains it's incompatible with this kernel. I do see some tables-related modules in the modules directory. Well, I can manually switch over. I wonder if I could have somehow done this different during install to get it to come out better? (Not looking forward to upgrading the main web and email server!) -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Jun 4 11:15:04 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" writes: > On 4 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > But after the upgrade, I see I have an "ipchains" rpm installed, but > > no iptables. And when I run /sbin/ipchains, it tells me it's not > > compatible with this kernel (7.1 is a 2.4 kernel, I was previously > > running a 2.2). Now, I see the iptables rpm, and I could install > > that, but what the heck kind of an "upgrade" process is this anyway? > > Sounds like you only upgraded the packages you had installed to the > versions in 7.1, or missed some important packages along the way. Your > ipchains problem is a 2.2 to 2.4 issue. ipchains was replaced with > netfilter in 2.4 (iptables.) ipchains and the older ipfwadm are still > available, but only as modules. So before using ipchains, you have to > modprobe ipchains. Add it to your firewall script (or ipchains init > script) and you should be set. Well, I didn't customize the list of packages to upgrade, so it's their fault :-). I suppose I won't get much sympathy here for getting scrod by RedHat. Yes, manually probing for ipchains works. Thanks! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Jun 4 11:17:49 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > On 3 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > I know why I wanted to get up to 2.2 (virtual ethernet ports). Why do > > I want to get up to 2.4? > > MD5 password encoding is a good reason. And here's the list from cisco, > which looks like pretty much passwords again, for practical purposes. Ah, that's a pretty good reason. So, can I get the file for a 675 somewhere? The URL posted is still distributing 2.2. And is somebody already using 2.4.2 with Qwest? I'm worried about getting ahead of them. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 4 11:32:43 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940F83A8@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Message-ID: Yaron speaketh: > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they were like $5 > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY large amounts > of failed burns on them? > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! John Miller added: > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. What speed are you burning at? I've got the PNY's at home and burned at 4x I have yet to burn a coaster. I haven't tried fitting 700 MB on yet, so I maybe it has problems I haven't encountered yet. The flaky reflective stuff is the reason I don't store anything important on them. I got what I paid for... a disposable CDR. They work great for burning linux ISOs and stuff for short term use. Generally I don't like to keep ISOs around for two long because I'd rather have a disc with the latest packages and patches so I don't have to dig after installing. The discs I really like (and I can't always find) are the paper-covered discs.. I feel MUCH safer storing stuff on them because the reflective stuff won't chip off, you have to intentionally peel the sticker off. -Brian From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 4 11:57:44 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20010604104712.C21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: > > centered around konqueror, which I feel to be the best browser > > Uhhh. ok. It cant do the CSS i spew, nor does it have full emcascript > support. :) Plus, mozilla .9 and beyond are getting pretty amazingly > fast. Plus, I dont have to load a huge amount of KDE libs for only one > application. Netscape 4.77 can't do the CSS you spew. Your choise of the word spew is definitly a good one. IF he's allready running KDE, all the KDE libs are loaded anyway, so konqueror won't take as long to initaly load, take up as much memory, etc. If you start konqueror alone it has to load all the libs and creates a bigger footprint. Anyway, in most cases Konqueror is a good browser. The support for Netscape plugins gives it a leg up on Mozilla, Opera, Galeon, etc. I've even got Java working at one point. KDE seems to be trying to out blinkify GNOME however. And didn't we learn something from Windows about centering desktop around the browser? Oh, it was actually a good idea? Imagine that... I've been running the mozilla nightly from 2001-05-23 for awile and have had minimum issues. I have yet to run into the annoying bugs that turned me off from Mozilla for so long. Looks like mozilla detected the Flash player, so at least some of the plugins that work in 4.77 work in Mozilla. I'll have to try out Real Player... The one thing that will always bug me about Mozilla is it doesn't look like GNOME. It doesn't follow the GTK themes, etc. (Ok, with the classic theme it uses the correct highlight color.) I don't know where I was going with this (oh wait, lunch! that's where I was going.) but yes, GNOME does lack a good intigrated browser. GNOME is fractured into more bits and pieces than KDE. And wether all this is good or bad will fall to the decision of the user who wants to tweak their work enviorment. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > * Robert P. Goldman [010604 09:21]: > > 2. Subjective impression of better UI. For example, at least at the > > most recent Gnome I tried, their help browser had no search feature! > > whatis: is what your looking for. Took me 3 seconds in the gnome help > to find that. > > > This seems totally goofy to me. gnorpm has a UI that I find almost > > totally inscrutable, etc., etc. > > rpm's blow :) Progeny has some nifty gnome-based utilities for managing > package sets, but for package-stuff-munging dselect still rules all. :) > > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." > Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. > Always a boom tomorrow." > From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jun 4 11:58:36 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280869@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I'm burning at 12x, and they're supposed to be 12x compatible. Just go to http://www.pny.com and complain to their tech support form. That's what I just did. Who knows if anyone will read it and actually care. I lowered the speed to 4x and anything over 600MB still turned into a coaster. The error I got was consistent with running out of space on the disc. The whole image would write, but fixation would fail. These discs don't even have any good identifying information on them, they come up as Unknown manufacturer in cdrecord. Sad, even my generic cheapies I bought about 4 years ago work better than these PNY ones. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:33 AM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > Yaron speaketh: > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they > were like $5 > > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY > large amounts > > of failed burns on them? > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > John Miller added: > > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. > > What speed are you burning at? I've got the PNY's at home > and burned at > 4x I have yet to burn a coaster. I haven't tried fitting 700 > MB on yet, > so I maybe it has problems I haven't encountered yet. > > The flaky reflective stuff is the reason I don't store > anything important > on them. I got what I paid for... a disposable CDR. They > work great for > burning linux ISOs and stuff for short term use. Generally I > don't like > to keep ISOs around for two long because I'd rather have a > disc with the > latest packages and patches so I don't have to dig after > installing. The > discs I really like (and I can't always find) are the paper-covered > discs.. I feel MUCH safer storing stuff on them because the reflective > stuff won't chip off, you have to intentionally peel the sticker off. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jasonj at talkware.net Mon Jun 4 12:02:24 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? References: Message-ID: <3B1BBF20.3A19E8D8@talkware.net> They are going to replace a single MASQing firewall. All traffic was going through one firewall anyways. Now it will be 2 linux bridges with masq rules that will failover. We arent using those for public space. If the bridges cant see the mac addresses of the boxes on both sides of the bridge then they wont route any data across. Your absolutely right. It might be better to have a sleeping firewall that could be awakened with some linux heartbeat software. We are investigating our options at the present and this was one solutions presented. We were thinking spanning tree switches with spanning tree bridging firewalls. Right now we are just compiling a pro's and con's list for the different options. One of the con's is having to purchase different switches. But I need to know what kinda of switches to get for this configuration and there price. Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > why in the world would you need both linux servers to have access to all > traffic on the network, that's a really _bad_ idea when it comes to > bandwidth, AND security. the whole point of having a switch is so that > traffic between hosts doesn't affect traffic between other servers and > hosts. if you need to do failover, the 2 linux servers should have an > active connection between them, which doesn't require that they monitor > traffic. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > > > We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so > > that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux > > boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the network. However > > we are using switches for security and the switches only have > > capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all traffic, just > > like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 > > switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some > > suggestions on switches that would have more than one monitoring port. > > Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOxufuctpDhsSpvgtAQGRwAQAjsqvjJcMHoYsH4ElrXqPG5E9OCML8qsK > fonuM1taK5tQ7vzTbWyDE8FY1ePv3NmIWzUEn3TXlsjWNnhlbpEGa1/kqOKFLE0A > XPwZw17mgkLNN3xXauIvUzHriXyPO04okIfS9DlUZM2c39T+V8vOsNSdS8TQCfCW > Ia14Xe//qh4= > =a+7V > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at talkware.net Mon Jun 4 12:03:09 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? References: <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> <20010604145333.56D2E183E9@skuld.wk> Message-ID: <3B1BBF4D.CD3995AD@talkware.net> We have some HP ProCurve 4000M's but they also do not allow more than one monitoring port. "Chad C. Walstrom" wrote: > In message <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net>, Jason Jorgensen writes: > > We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 switches to allow > > the bridges to work properly. So I would like some suggestions on > > switches that would have more than one monitoring port. Right now > > we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > Use the HP ProCurve 4000M switches. VERY nice. I wouldn't get > anything else. Very powerful. Very configurable. Hot swappable port > cards, including gigabit and fiber. Hot swappable power supplies. Expandable. > Managed. > > -- > Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie > http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr > Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From m_nassar at yahoo.com Sat Jun 2 20:56:38 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <200106030130.UAA22506@www7.mail.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010603015638.71752.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> actually, iposted this before you put that link, it just got delayed because i use Yahoo! Mail... -munir --- Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > If you didn't get the link to the DMT biased > whitepaper I posted which has > probably the best answers I've seen to your > question, it's > > http://support.aware.com/technology/whitepapers/dmt.html > > Cheers, > Phil M > > > On or about 1 Jun 2001, Munir Nassar is alleged to > have said: > > is one better or faster than the other? why would > they > > switch? what are the pros and cons of each? > > > > -munir > > --- Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > > > > > So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is > CAP > > > and DMT and if my modem > > > > doesn't do those yet why should it? > > > > > > Your modem does one of the two. They are two of > the > > > encoding formats for > > > DSL. Think of AM/FM, or better the two > incompatible > > > formats that were > > > in use for 56K (still are?) a couple of years > ago. > > > > > > CAP is Carrierless Amplitude/Phase modulation, > and > > > DMT is discrete > > > multi-tone. It's the physical layer. If it > works, > > > don't worry about it > > > -- but you might look at which you're using. > > > > > > -- > > > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." > > > --Anonymous > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > ===== > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > Version: 3.12 > > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ > w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ > > PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ > DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > - only $35 > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > --Begin signature-- > X > ---End signature--- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Sun Jun 3 16:20:46 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKIGAMES further clarification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010603212046.2352.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> i dont know if anyone knows how to handle the mayment but we will work on it... -munir --- Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > Ok, I don't know how mayment will be handled yet. > Next Monday (June 11th) > I will send Loki the list of games we want, and see > if they accept it. > THEN we'll worry about payment. > > It is most likely that we'll want it in advance. > Everyone will pay one > person who'll pay Loki. Loki definetly don't want > multiple payments. > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jun 4 12:14:44 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280869@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <017f01c0ed19$d99d64b0$3028680a@tgt.com> Althought the label would flake off of the PNY disk, I don't have any problems burning them. I do full 660MB disks at 8x and have not had one coaster yet. HP9100i. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austad, Jay" To: Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:58 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > I'm burning at 12x, and they're supposed to be 12x compatible. Just go to > http://www.pny.com and complain to their tech support form. That's what I > just did. Who knows if anyone will read it and actually care. > > I lowered the speed to 4x and anything over 600MB still turned into a > coaster. The error I got was consistent with running out of space on the > disc. The whole image would write, but fixation would fail. These discs > don't even have any good identifying information on them, they come up as > Unknown manufacturer in cdrecord. Sad, even my generic cheapies I bought > about 4 years ago work better than these PNY ones. > > Jay > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:33 AM > > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > > > > > Yaron speaketh: > > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they > > were like $5 > > > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY > > large amounts > > > of failed burns on them? > > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > > > John Miller added: > > > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. > > > > What speed are you burning at? I've got the PNY's at home > > and burned at > > 4x I have yet to burn a coaster. I haven't tried fitting 700 > > MB on yet, > > so I maybe it has problems I haven't encountered yet. > > > > The flaky reflective stuff is the reason I don't store > > anything important > > on them. I got what I paid for... a disposable CDR. They > > work great for > > burning linux ISOs and stuff for short term use. Generally I > > don't like > > to keep ISOs around for two long because I'd rather have a > > disc with the > > latest packages and patches so I don't have to dig after > > installing. The > > discs I really like (and I can't always find) are the paper-covered > > discs.. I feel MUCH safer storing stuff on them because the reflective > > stuff won't chip off, you have to intentionally peel the sticker off. > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ben at nerp.net Mon Jun 4 12:48:08 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? In-Reply-To: <3B1BBF20.3A19E8D8@talkware.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- i take it you're bridging more than just IP, because if you are only doing IP, you should not have to see any mac addresses. the switches should take care of sending out ARP requests. something sounds setup wrong, you should not need to see MAC address traffic for a system like that to work. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > They are going to replace a single MASQing firewall. All traffic was going > through one firewall anyways. Now it will be 2 linux bridges with masq rules > that will failover. We arent using those for public space. > > If the bridges cant see the mac addresses of the boxes on both sides of the > bridge then they wont route any data across. > > Your absolutely right. It might be better to have a sleeping firewall that > could be awakened with some linux heartbeat software. We are investigating > our options at the present and this was one solutions presented. We were > thinking spanning tree switches with spanning tree bridging firewalls. Right > now we are just compiling a pro's and con's list for the different options. > One of the con's is having to purchase different switches. But I need to know > what kinda of switches to get for this configuration and there price. > > > > > Ben Kochie wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > why in the world would you need both linux servers to have access to all > > traffic on the network, that's a really _bad_ idea when it comes to > > bandwidth, AND security. the whole point of having a switch is so that > > traffic between hosts doesn't affect traffic between other servers and > > hosts. if you need to do failover, the 2 linux servers should have an > > active connection between them, which doesn't require that they monitor > > traffic. > > > > Thank You, > > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > > > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > > > > > We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so > > > that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux > > > boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the network. However > > > we are using switches for security and the switches only have > > > capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all traffic, just > > > like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 > > > switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some > > > suggestions on switches that would have more than one monitoring port. > > > Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: 2.6.3ia > > Charset: noconv > > > > iQCVAwUBOxufuctpDhsSpvgtAQGRwAQAjsqvjJcMHoYsH4ElrXqPG5E9OCML8qsK > > fonuM1taK5tQ7vzTbWyDE8FY1ePv3NmIWzUEn3TXlsjWNnhlbpEGa1/kqOKFLE0A > > XPwZw17mgkLNN3xXauIvUzHriXyPO04okIfS9DlUZM2c39T+V8vOsNSdS8TQCfCW > > Ia14Xe//qh4= > > =a+7V > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOxvJ2ctpDhsSpvgtAQF1vgP7BCmDVITRWUQD2fy3J22SNJtXYQzgG1EF PgQHkBM8EPhLacKhYYwKIjhi0iZ32Vx/kL3Ryc5bxmyixIRsYPEK//ikt/NuC0yg JiMvk2BPfAQi6yNI7CJetpoCrsTOvnuzqm68fcDzhyyFtcIpzj2RIqR+Cgrp8dq9 qtQ1QGRZ7RE= =7aEW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Mon Jun 4 12:54:13 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20010604104712.C21402@ringworld.org> References: <15131.39229.876278.979170@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <20010604104712.C21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <15131.52037.133577.840459@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "SD" == Scott Dier writes: SD> * Robert P. Goldman [010604 SD> 09:21]: >> 2. Subjective impression of better UI. For example, at least >> at the most recent Gnome I tried, their help browser had no >> search feature! SD> whatis: is what your looking for. Took me 3 seconds in the SD> gnome help to find that. No, I mean the browser had no way to find a string IN the page. For example, I wanna find out what the -a option is used for.... As for the other things, seems like your wants from a UI and mine are diff enough that our likes are going to be incomparable. I mostly use the command line, I just want the taskbar to work and to have a good browser. I have a fast machine, so I'm willing to pay the KDE overhead, instead of just using sawfish or something. I've seen mozilla 0.9 and I still think konqueror is wildly better. But I hate j(e)a(c)v(m)a(a)script anyway, and I like the better security control that konqueror gives me. Mozilla feels like open source Internet Explorer to me. Too many things integrated (like email), too many features that are too hard to turn off, etc. r From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jun 4 13:22:32 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010604132232.D21402@ringworld.org> * Ben Kochie [010604 09:49]: > bandwidth, AND security. the whole point of having a switch is so that *cough*loadofshit*cough* Cisco switches do this, AFAIK. The 'correct' way to do this is implement HSRP into linux a linux daemon. :) Then you could even be interoperable with other solutions. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010604/061f81df/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jun 4 13:28:11 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <15131.52037.133577.840459@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20010604132811.E21402@ringworld.org> > I've seen mozilla 0.9 and I still think konqueror is wildly better. > But I hate j(e)a(c)v(m)a(a)script anyway, and I like the better Heh. I frequent some online 'games' of a sort that require it. So, if i need a great browser its got to be ok for emcascript. > security control that konqueror gives me. Mozilla feels like open Like what? > source Internet Explorer to me. Too many things integrated (like > email), too many features that are too hard to turn off, etc. Uh.. Myth's debian packages have them all seperate, it works fine like that. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010604/60c117b8/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 4 14:09:44 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gnupg private key synchronization? Message-ID: <20010604140944.M28665@real-time.com> Ok, this is getting fustrating. Anyone advise on how to keep your private key ring synchronized between machines? I got a desktop at the office, 2 desktops at home and a laptop. I have multiple identities :-P, so I need to keep the private keys in sync. Ideas? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 4 15:01:09 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Preferred gpg keyserver? Message-ID: <20010604150109.A11994@real-time.com> What is the preferred gnupg key server these days? I was using keyserver.net, but that gives me a connection refused. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Mon Jun 4 15:08:14 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE and GNOME In-Reply-To: <20010604132811.E21402@ringworld.org> References: <15131.52037.133577.840459@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <20010604132811.E21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <15131.60078.521942.916211@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "SD" == Scott Dier writes: >> security control that konqueror gives me. SD> Like what? Let's me turn on/off java and j(e)a(c)v(m)a(a)script on a site-by-site basis. Also controls cookies more nicely, in my opinion, although Mozilla may be catching up. R From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon Jun 4 16:33:55 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <008401c0ed01$d282edc0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B1BFE8D.298DE2B6@eetc.com> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > I use about 200 disks a year. It is a pain in the but to label them all. I > just write on the disk and go. Much of it is large works in progress > (snapshots if you will) and FreeBSD snapshot binary disks as well as various > Linux distributions. We go through about 200 CD's in a slow month. :-) We get the high quality ones. Completely opaque back. More durable than a sticker and can't be pealed of at all. You have to chip this stuff off and can't do that without destroying the CD. Very nice. They cost $1.20 a piece. :-( Considered well worth the price for what there used for. Have never, ever had a bad disk. The writable side also has a very nice blue color to it. Come with the cases in a seperate box and the CD's on spindles of 50. I love working with high quality equipment. No messing around with crap. I like my job. :-) sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon Jun 4 16:47:45 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? References: Message-ID: <3B1C01C9.4C9CFAA6@eetc.com> David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Well, I didn't customize the list of packages to upgrade, so it's > their fault :-). I suppose I won't get much sympathy here for getting > scrod by RedHat. > > Yes, manually probing for ipchains works. Thanks! Sorry, that's what I meant. Wasn't completely clear on that. I did a full install because there wasn't anything I wanted to keep on the old install and I had messed some things up. :-) sim From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 16:56:08 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <3B1BFE8D.298DE2B6@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Very nice. > They cost $1.20 a piece. :-( I don't mind paying $1.20 ea (much.) You know what they cost when I started using them? $23.00 ea! In quantity! You don't know how good you have it! :) > I love working with high quality equipment. No messing around with crap. I agree and it's nice when you can afford it. I miss my pair of Sony CDW-900e burners. They were worth the $7000 each; the world will never see as good a CD-R burner again. (Not complaining, I still got $2k each for them when I sold them to dts (the surround sound co.) after several years of use!) Now I'd settle for one of the good Yamahammer burners, if I hadn't sunk all my free dough into an SGI Indy that has a CD-ROM utility that supports the 900e that I sold to have free dough. Doh! :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Mon Jun 4 16:42:18 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO References: <200106041702.f54H2HK14942@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B1C00BA.E476E311@steinerpoint.com> David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > So, can I get the file for a 675 somewhere? The URL posted is still > distributing 2.2. And is somebody already using 2.4.2 with Qwest? > I'm worried about getting ahead of them. 2.4.1 is at http://www.qwest.com/dsl/customerservice/csco675ups.html I got this link from visi.com, my ISP. I was not able to find 2.4.2 in a quick search at Qwest. -- Al From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 17:17:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <3B1C00BA.E476E311@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > So, can I get the file for a 675 somewhere? The URL posted is still > > distributing 2.2. And is somebody already using 2.4.2 with Qwest? > > I'm worried about getting ahead of them. > > 2.4.1 is at > > http://www.qwest.com/dsl/customerservice/csco675ups.html > > I got this link from visi.com, my ISP. I was not able to find 2.4.2 in a > quick search at Qwest. 2.4.1 is what my 678 shipped with. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dutchman at uswest.net Mon Jun 4 17:43:22 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Awk Question Message-ID: <3B1C0F0A.90990E5C@uswest.net> Greet the sun all: Within Unix, what does one use to quickly scan text files for a particular pattern? I need to scan a large amount of *.HTML files for a pattern. I though about Awk, is there a good Awk site with examples somebody could recommend. I asked Google but there is more garbarge that useful links. I know somebody will recommend Perl but I haven't used Perl in five years and I am just looking for something along the lines of "text-finder-pgm -R (for recursion) 'cgi-bin' *.html" Thank you, -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com t_perlExists = false; From jcoyne at software.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 17:53:06 2001 From: jcoyne at software.umn.edu (Justin Coyne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Awk Question In-Reply-To: <3B1C0F0A.90990E5C@uswest.net> Message-ID: find . -type f |xargs grep "find this text" Justin Coyne "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Within Unix, what does one use to quickly scan text files for a > particular pattern? I need to scan a large amount of *.HTML files for a > pattern. I though about Awk, is there a good Awk site with examples > somebody could recommend. I asked Google but there is more garbarge that > useful links. I know somebody will recommend Perl but I haven't used > Perl in five years and I am just looking for something along the lines > of "text-finder-pgm -R (for recursion) 'cgi-bin' *.html" > > Thank you, > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > t_perlExists = false; > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 17:56:01 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Awk Question Message-ID: <010604175601.20204305@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi fgrep -r cgi-bin *.html Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 17:56:25 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Preferred gpg keyserver? In-Reply-To: <20010604150109.A11994@real-time.com> References: <20010604150109.A11994@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010604175625.7ce39f95.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > What is the preferred gnupg key server these days? > > I was using keyserver.net, but that gives me a connection refused. my ~/.gnupg/options file says to use `host -l pgp.net | grep www' to pick one. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ What's another word for / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ 'thesaurus?' \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 4 18:04:05 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Preferred gpg keyserver? In-Reply-To: <20010604175625.7ce39f95.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:56:25PM -0500 References: <20010604150109.A11994@real-time.com> <20010604175625.7ce39f95.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010604180405.O11994@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > Bob Tanner wrote: > > > > What is the preferred gnupg key server these days? > > > > I was using keyserver.net, but that gives me a connection refused. > > my ~/.gnupg/options file says to use `host -l pgp.net | grep www' to pick > one. > yeah, nothing shows up with that command. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 18:49:11 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Preferred gpg keyserver? In-Reply-To: <20010604180405.O11994@real-time.com> References: <20010604150109.A11994@real-time.com> <20010604175625.7ce39f95.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010604180405.O11994@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010604184911.1b9e9aa7.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > > > > my ~/.gnupg/options file says to use `host -l pgp.net | grep www' to > > pick one. > > > > yeah, nothing shows up with that command. Hmm.. you're right. `host' doesn't seem to like I/O redirection. Oh well, just run `host -l' and pick one by sight or something. I have wwwkeys.us.pgp.net as my keyserver. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Friends are Friends, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ regardless of their baud \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) rate! [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From jts at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 19:44:42 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? In-Reply-To: <200106041329.f54DT2K07369@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > I have started a project on sourceforge turning all the useful/necessary > java projects into rpms. > > http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/rte > > For you java developers are there, what java projects/packages am I > missing? I like these two: jakarta-struts jRelationalFramework , requires jakarta-log4j Joel --- Member of the GNU/X/Apache/Perl/Samba/OpenSSH/Linux generation. From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon Jun 4 20:35:57 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refresh Rates yet again... Message-ID: Hi, Ok, I'm trying to get X going on this laptop, using the CRT, not the internal LCD. I've got debian unstable/testing/sid/whatever, with all the latest packages. The damn thing keeps using a refresh rate of 60Hz despite me telling it that the monitor can do much, much more. In fact, X claims to be using the 85Hz refresh rate, but it's not! I know it's not the video adapter, since someone else has the exact same model, and is running Slackware on it, and THAT one gets 85Hz. I copiedhis config file over and I _still_ get 60. Anyone have a clue to lend me? -Yaron -- From fertch at mninter.net Mon Jun 4 21:14:15 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes (getting back to this) References: Message-ID: <3B1C4077.56A01BD0@mninter.net> "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > Xnest --help > You need to tell it to use a display number other than 0, which is your > Xserver. > > Xnext -geometry 800x600 -query sunbox :1 > > should do it. Okay, so I do this and I get the following error message: fjorn@bleys:~$ Xnest -geometry 800x600 -query marbles :2 _XSERVTransSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: failed to create listener for local failed to set default font path '/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/' Fatal server error: could not open default font 'fixed' I can't find anything on the help section, am I to assume that it's because I don't have all the font packages installed? Shawn From mend0070 at umn.edu Mon Jun 4 21:31:56 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes (getting back to this) Message-ID: <200106050231.VAA18314@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 4 Jun 2001, Shawn is alleged to have said: > Okay, so I do this and I get the following error message: > > > fjorn@bleys:~$ Xnest -geometry 800x600 -query marbles :2 > _XSERVTransSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener > _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed > _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: failed to create listener for > local > failed to set default font path > '/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6 /l > ib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/font s/1 > 00dpi/' > Fatal server error: > could not open default font 'fixed' > > > I can't find anything on the help section, am I to assume that it's > because I don't have all the font packages installed? Are the listed directories there and full of fonts? If so, you might need to do xset fp+ (dir) followed by xset fp rehash. If not, then install them. If you are on the same network, my favorite trick is just to NFS mount those directories from the other machine. :) From jspinti at mn.rr.com Mon Jun 4 22:47:04 2001 From: jspinti at mn.rr.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <3B1BFE8D.298DE2B6@eetc.com> References: <008401c0ed01$d282edc0$3028680a@tgt.com> <3B1BFE8D.298DE2B6@eetc.com> Message-ID: <01060422470400.01452@pii400> Those sound like the Black Diamond ones. Only difference is that the writable side isn't blue, it is black also with 1/4 of it silver to write on. And the don't come with cases, just on a spindle. But, you can't chip off the writing side. James On Monday 04 June 2001 16:33, you wrote: > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > I use about 200 disks a year. It is a pain in the but to label them all. > > I just write on the disk and go. Much of it is large works in progress > > (snapshots if you will) and FreeBSD snapshot binary disks as well as > > various Linux distributions. > > We go through about 200 CD's in a slow month. :-) > We get the high quality ones. Completely opaque back. > More durable than a sticker and can't be pealed of at all. You have to > chip this stuff off and can't do that without destroying the CD. > Very nice. > They cost $1.20 a piece. :-( > Considered well worth the price for what there used for. Have never, ever > had a bad disk. > The writable side also has a very nice blue color to it. Come with the > cases in a seperate box and the CD's on spindles of 50. > I love working with high quality equipment. No messing around with crap. > I like my job. :-) > > sim > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- James Spinti jspinti@mn.rr.com From mend0070 at umn.edu Mon Jun 4 22:56:53 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday Message-ID: <200106050356.WAA19415@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 3 Jun 2001, Mike Hicks is alleged to have said: > Okay, so my last media alert didn't really work out. I saw a short 20 > second blip of coverage of Mech Wars on Ch. 9, but nothing on WCCO (even > though they had a reporter there the whole time). Maybe something will > show up tonight. > > Anyway, this one is a little more likely: Linus Torvalds is expected to > be on National Public Radio's Fresh Air program tomorrow. I guess it's > broadcast from 8-9 PM here in Minnesota. So did anyone else catch this? It was fun, but I thought Linus came off a little flat sometimes, esp. when describing what Linux (or any OS) does. Actually, his European reserve had the side effect of making NPR seem more like "48 Hours" or one of the slightly more sensational news shows, since they kept asking questions about money, even when he said that it was never *about* money. --Begin signature-- X ---End signature--- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 4 23:06:46 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPG-enabled Sylpheed [S]RPMs Message-ID: <20010604230646.237ff880.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Since I haven't seen an official GnuPG 1.0.6 RPM from RedHat yet, and because I wanted to get Sylpheed to use GPG, I put together a few RPMs and SRPMs. You're welcome to steal them from here: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/files/packages/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Oops. My brain just hit a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ bad sector. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010604/7fe332a2/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 4 23:12:12 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: <200106050356.WAA19415@www7.mail.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > So did anyone else catch this? It was fun, but I thought Linus came off a > little flat sometimes, esp. when describing what Linux (or any OS) does. > > Actually, his European reserve had the side effect of making NPR seem more > like "48 Hours" or one of the slightly more sensational news shows, since > they kept asking questions about money, even when he said that it was never > *about* money. I heard part of it, didn't have time to listen to the whole thing tho. He came across as "a geek who knows his stuff", so he's not going to sound all that exciting in an interview about linux. Still, some GREAT press for linux after all the FUD of last week. I like how the interviewer stated that "linux is designed as a replacement for the Windows operating system". Even though that's not totally true, it does add a nice touch after what MS has been saying in the last few weeks and months. Also, as Phil said, he made it clear that linux wasn't about money, and not about taking out Microsoft. I think that's a major point to be making when Microsoft is obviously scared sh*tless about an OS that was never designed to be this widely accepted. Real good stuff :-) -Brian From andy at theasis.com Mon Jun 4 18:36:05 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: <200106050356.WAA19415@www7.mail.umn.edu> Message-ID: > > be on National Public Radio's Fresh Air program tomorrow. I guess it's > > broadcast from 8-9 PM here in Minnesota. > > So did anyone else catch this? It was fun, but I thought Linus came off a > little flat sometimes, esp. when describing what Linux (or any OS) does. I caught it on my way up from the airport after returning from Japan. Interestingly, Linus was in Tokyo at about the same time I was, according to a local (English) paper there, to promote the Japanese translation of the book. I was a little disappointed with Terry Gross's questions; she was clearly out of her element. If you want a comparison you should hear her interviews with musicians, which are usually fabulous. She didn't really know how to identify with Linux, except in terms of the $ and the GPL. Linus coulda definitely been less flat. He showed the typical (but not every!) geek's difficulty in identifying just how little people understand about the whole topic, and so IMO didn't make the best of a few opportunities (during the conversation) for some really nice illustrations. But then, I've heard RMS (and others) make the same mistake. That's what I found wrong with it. Doesn't mean I think it was a bad program, or a bad Linus interview -- overall a positive thing that it was a topic. The point he made most well was how the GPL development environment directs a very different, evolutionary process for "production". So who's read Linus' book? Andy From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 5 00:04:45 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I was a little disappointed with Terry Gross's questions; she was clearly > out of her element. If you want a comparison you should hear her > interviews with musicians, which are usually fabulous. She didn't really > know how to identify with Linux, except in terms of the $ and the GPL. > Yeah I definitely agree that Terry was having a hard time with the questions. Linus seemed like he was doing his best to not drown her in geekiness, but still answer the questions, hence the "flatness". The VA Linux IPO question was bad...she (admitted) that she didn't really know what VA Linux actually does, that was a bit frustrating. > That's what I found wrong with it. Doesn't mean I think it was a bad > program, or a bad Linus interview -- overall a positive thing that it was > a topic. The point he made most well was how the GPL development > environment directs a very different, evolutionary process for > "production". > I agree here. I thought another good point was how Linux changed HP and IBM's business approach. I think that was important for non-techies to hear. > So who's read Linus' book? > > At this point, to give Terry Gross some credit, because she usually does awesome interviews, perhaps the "money" questions were related to things brought up in his "memoir". I mean, thats really why he's on the radio, right? To promote his book, not to just talk linux. I mean, he needs to pay for his (expenseive) house after all those shares bombed. ;) ~j From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 5 00:25:42 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat 6.2 to 7.1 upgrade -- ipchains to iptables maybe? References: <3B1B9034.FE811AD7@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B1C6D56.F4887B57@haxxed.com> > firewalling stuff completely. I'm generally unimpressed with package > upgrades using RPM because it almost always sets aside my > carefully-constructed config file and puts in a default one that's > useless. And doesn't specifically warn me in the cases where the > format or required contents changed thoroughly so I have to recreate > my configuration from scratch. Thats what "find / -name \*.rpmsave -type f" after you upgrade is for. ;P From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 5 00:27:56 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <991670857.3b1bb249ccc36@dragon> Message-ID: <3B1C6DDB.F71F2865@haxxed.com> > > I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They suck. They are > > 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely disappointed with > > them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. Are you sure they're really 700mb disks? Do other brands of 700mb disks work? I wouldn't put it beyond an ultra cheap brand like them to lie. ;P That or your burner just doesn't like high capacity media. From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 5 00:28:47 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? References: <3B1B9D1B.9F1A2DCE@talkware.net> Message-ID: <3B1C6E0F.9F75A742@haxxed.com> Jason Jorgensen wrote: > > We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so > that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux > boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the network. However > we are using switches for security and the switches only have > capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all traffic, just > like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on each of our 2 > switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some > suggestions on switches that would have more than one monitoring port. > Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. Why not hook up a hub to the monitoring port? From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 5 00:35:37 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about backing up through samba References: <3B180B76.3090001@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3B1C6FA9.F3791320@haxxed.com> ScanMan wrote: > > Are you sure unix even supports the archive bit? Unix does a last modified timestamp, rather than just a bit. VFAT also does mtime making the archive bit unnecessary... From mend0070 at umn.edu Tue Jun 5 01:33:35 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday Message-ID: <200106050633.BAA20542@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 4 Jun 2001, andy@theasis.com is alleged to have said: > I caught it on my way up from the airport after returning from Japan. > Interestingly, Linus was in Tokyo at about the same time I was, according > to a local (English) paper there, to promote the Japanese translation of > the book. Welcome back. Hope you set your circadian clock to UTC rather than local time to avoid jet lag! How was the land of the Rising Sun? From jack at jacku.com Tue Jun 5 06:43:33 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01060506433300.01314@geezer> I've been listening to Fresh Air on and off for over 15 years. (I used to live/work in south NJ and WHYY was our local NPR station.) I've heard Terry Gross interview scientists and other "geeky" types with little difference from her other interviews. Not having read Linus' book I'll guess that her questions were derived from what was talked about in the book. Like a lot of people (especially in the US) she probably has trouble wrapping her brain around doing something as substantial as Linux but not for the money. I liked the points about IBM. These are the ideas that will help Linux move into more corporations, which in turn will move it on to more desktops at home. My .02 Jack On Tuesday 05 June 2001 00:04, you wrote: > > I was a little disappointed with Terry Gross's questions; she was clearly > > out of her element. If you want a comparison you should hear her > > interviews with musicians, which are usually fabulous. She didn't really > > know how to identify with Linux, except in terms of the $ and the GPL. > > Yeah I definitely agree that Terry was having a hard time with the > questions. Linus seemed like he was doing his best to not drown her in > geekiness, but still answer the questions, hence the "flatness". The VA > Linux IPO question was bad...she (admitted) that she didn't really know > what VA Linux actually does, that was a bit frustrating. > > > That's what I found wrong with it. Doesn't mean I think it was a bad > > program, or a bad Linus interview -- overall a positive thing that it was > > a topic. The point he made most well was how the GPL development > > environment directs a very different, evolutionary process for > > "production". > > I agree here. I thought another good point was how Linux changed HP and > IBM's business approach. I think that was important for non-techies to > hear. > > > So who's read Linus' book? > > At this point, to give Terry Gross some credit, because she usually does > awesome interviews, perhaps the "money" questions were related to things > brought up in his "memoir". I mean, thats really why he's on the radio, > right? To promote his book, not to just talk linux. I mean, he needs to pay > for his (expenseive) house after all those shares bombed. ;) > > ~j > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 07:43:41 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? In-Reply-To: <20010604041121.O18947@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:11:21AM -0500 References: <20010604041121.O18947@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010605074341.A49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:11:21AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > I have started a project on sourceforge turning all the useful/necessary java > projects into rpms. > > http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/rte > > For you java developers are there, what java projects/packages am I missing? I noticed you don't have any thing that is directly acquirable from Sun (jdks, swing, webstart, etc). Does Sun not allow redistribution of their java stuff? Gabe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "Ya lousy bum!" - Muddy Mudskipper in "Stimpy's Big Day" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 07:51:38 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes (getting back to this) In-Reply-To: <3B1C4077.56A01BD0@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:14:15PM -0500 References: <3B1C4077.56A01BD0@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010605075138.B49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> > Okay, so I do this and I get the following error message: > > > fjorn@bleys:~$ Xnest -geometry 800x600 -query marbles :2 > _XSERVTransSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener > _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed > _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: failed to create listener for > local > failed to set default font path > '/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/' > Fatal server error: > could not open default font 'fixed' > > > I can't find anything on the help section, am I to assume that it's > because I don't have all the font packages installed? > Well, X doesn't use the fonts on the remote machine, it uses the fonts on your local machine (even when you're Xquerying). So, you'll need to figure out what fints it needs and copy them into the fontpath of your local machine. One other solution would be to query the sun box from another sun box, but I'm guessing that's not an option :) Gabe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "Ya lousy bum!" - Muddy Mudskipper in "Stimpy's Big Day" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 08:12:20 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: <200106050356.WAA19415@www7.mail.umn.edu>; from mend0070@umn.edu on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:56:53PM -0500 References: <200106050356.WAA19415@www7.mail.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010605081219.A14553@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:56:53PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On or about 3 Jun 2001, Mike Hicks is alleged to have said: > > Anyway, this one is a little more likely: Linus Torvalds is expected to > > be on National Public Radio's Fresh Air program tomorrow. I guess it's > > broadcast from 8-9 PM here in Minnesota. > > So did anyone else catch this? It was fun, but I thought Linus came off a > little flat sometimes, esp. when describing what Linux (or any OS) does. > > Actually, his European reserve had the side effect of making NPR seem more > like "48 Hours" or one of the slightly more sensational news shows, since > they kept asking questions about money, even when he said that it was never > *about* money. Real audio of the interview is available at http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/fa/20010604.fa.ram . -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 5 08:13:38 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <991670857.3b1bb249ccc36@dragon> <3B1C6DDB.F71F2865@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <005601c0edc1$55a1c4f0$3028680a@tgt.com> If you can't burn past 600MB, it sounds like a burner problem, not a media problem (I have used these same media to full capacity without incident on my HP9100i). It sounds like your laser is having problems at the out edge and or the server does not like to slow down enough to record at the outer edge. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Callum Lerwick" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They suck. They are > > > 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely disappointed with > > > them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. > > Are you sure they're really 700mb disks? Do other brands of 700mb disks > work? I wouldn't put it beyond an ultra cheap brand like them to lie. ;P > > That or your burner just doesn't like high capacity media. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 5 08:23:35 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280862@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> <991670857.3b1bb249ccc36@dragon> <3B1C6DDB.F71F2865@haxxed.com> <005601c0edc1$55a1c4f0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <009301c0edc2$b97254d0$3028680a@tgt.com> I meant to say the "servo" does not like to slow ... Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > If you can't burn past 600MB, it sounds like a burner problem, not a media > problem (I have used these same media to full capacity without incident on > my HP9100i). It sounds like your laser is having problems at the out edge > and or the server does not like to slow down enough to record at the outer > edge. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Callum Lerwick" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:27 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > > > I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They suck. They are > > > > 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely > disappointed with > > > > them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. > > > > Are you sure they're really 700mb disks? Do other brands of 700mb disks > > work? I wouldn't put it beyond an ultra cheap brand like them to lie. ;P > > > > That or your burner just doesn't like high capacity media. > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From sbernsen at innoveda.com Tue Jun 5 10:22:52 2001 From: sbernsen at innoveda.com (Seth Bernsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rhosts from Sun to Linux Message-ID: <3B1CF94C.30FEFE22@innoveda.com> Hello! My local workstation is a SunOS 5.7 machine, but I regularly work on Linux (mostly RH6.2) and HP-UX (both 10.2 and 11) machines, which I rlogin to. Amongst the Solaris and HP-UX machines I have no problems setting up my .rhosts files to allow access. However, from the non-Linux machines to the Linux machines I am always prompted for a password. Any thoughts? At the moment I've completely openned up my .rhosts file (with the "+"), to no avail. Thanks, Seth -- Seth Bernsen V-CPU Engineer Innoveda, Inc. Phone: 651-765-2252 Fax: 651-765-2205 http://www.innoveda.com From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jun 5 10:35:16 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rhosts from Sun to Linux In-Reply-To: <3B1CF94C.30FEFE22@innoveda.com>; from sbernsen@innoveda.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:22:52AM -0500 References: <3B1CF94C.30FEFE22@innoveda.com> Message-ID: <20010605103516.A16380@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:22:52AM -0500, Seth Bernsen wrote: > >Any thoughts? At the moment I've completely openned up my .rhosts file >(with the "+"), to no avail. the R services are notoriously insecure. They are throwbacks from the darkages of network computing. Get rid of them. Use ssh or kerberized remote access services. > >Thanks, >Seth > -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/12e89772/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 5 10:42:06 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280870@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> The Memorex and Imation 700MB discs work just fine in my burner. The PNY ones are the only ones I have trouble with, and they say "700MB" on each and every one of them. The burn actually finishes, but I get an error when it fixates the disc. Some kind of end of media error. In both my acer 12x under linux, and my sony 4x under winXP. > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas T. Veldhouse [mailto:veldy@veldy.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:14 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > If you can't burn past 600MB, it sounds like a burner > problem, not a media > problem (I have used these same media to full capacity > without incident on > my HP9100i). It sounds like your laser is having problems at > the out edge > and or the server does not like to slow down enough to record > at the outer > edge. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Callum Lerwick" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:27 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > > > I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They > suck. They are > > > > 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely > disappointed with > > > > them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. > > > > Are you sure they're really 700mb disks? Do other brands of > 700mb disks > > work? I wouldn't put it beyond an ultra cheap brand like > them to lie. ;P > > > > That or your burner just doesn't like high capacity media. > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Tue Jun 5 10:48:40 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes (getting back to this) References: <3B1C4077.56A01BD0@mninter.net> <20010605075138.B49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B1CFF58.CE85EF23@mninter.net> dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote: > > Well, X doesn't use the fonts on the remote machine, it uses the fonts on > your local machine (even when you're Xquerying). So, you'll need to figure > out what fints it needs and copy them into the fontpath of your > local machine. One other solution would be to query the sun box from > another sun box, but I'm guessing that's not an option :) > > Gabe Okay, installed all the fonts (note to self: Besure to install ALL fonts from now on...) and it works like a charm. So, now is there a limit to the number of virtual terminals I can use? Meaning the :0 can be unlimited in range, not just stuck to 0-9 or so? As to having a Sun box on the desk, would be nice, but won't happen.... Thanks for the help. Shawn From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 10:55:20 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes (getting back to this) In-Reply-To: <3B1CFF58.CE85EF23@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:48:40AM -0500 References: <3B1C4077.56A01BD0@mninter.net> <20010605075138.B49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <3B1CFF58.CE85EF23@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010605105520.A49738@sorry.cs.umn.edu> > Okay, installed all the fonts (note to self: Besure to install ALL > fonts from now on...) and it works like a charm. So, now is there a > limit to the number of virtual terminals I can use? Meaning the :0 can > be unlimited in range, not just stuck to 0-9 or so? Well, there's no limit as far as the number is concerned, but eventually you'll eventually consume so many of the sun box's resources as to make it unusable. How many do you need to open to it? Unless you've got a pretty beefy Sun (like an Ultra 60 or 80), I'd try to limit yourself to 10. Gabe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "My collection of rare, eencurebale diseases! Violated!" - Ren Hoek in "Sven Hoek" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 5 11:07:56 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280871@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Then you have another single point of failure. > -----Original Message----- > From: Callum Lerwick [mailto:seg@haxxed.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:29 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? > > > Jason Jorgensen wrote: > > > > We are trying to setup a couple of linux boxes to act as a bridge so > > that we have some redundancy if one box fails. To do this the linux > > boxes need to "see" each other and all traffic on the > network. However > > we are using switches for security and the switches only have > > capabilities for one monitoring port (a port that sees all > traffic, just > > like a hub would do). We would need 2 monitoring ports on > each of our 2 > > switches to allow the bridges to work properly. So I would like some > > suggestions on switches that would have more than one > monitoring port. > > Right now we are using HP ProCurve 2424's. > > Why not hook up a hub to the monitoring port? > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 5 11:08:45 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280870@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <014101c0edd9$cc7fd630$3028680a@tgt.com> My old burner died that way. It wouldn't fixate disks. It started with a couple and then, soon, it wouldn't fixate ANY disk. I hope this is not the case for you, but it happened to me that way. Perhaps you might try cleaning the drive with compressed air. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austad, Jay" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:42 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > The Memorex and Imation 700MB discs work just fine in my burner. The PNY > ones are the only ones I have trouble with, and they say "700MB" on each and > every one of them. > > The burn actually finishes, but I get an error when it fixates the disc. > Some kind of end of media error. In both my acer 12x under linux, and my > sony 4x under winXP. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Thomas T. Veldhouse [mailto:veldy@veldy.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:14 AM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > > > If you can't burn past 600MB, it sounds like a burner > > problem, not a media > > problem (I have used these same media to full capacity > > without incident on > > my HP9100i). It sounds like your laser is having problems at > > the out edge > > and or the server does not like to slow down enough to record > > at the outer > > edge. > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Callum Lerwick" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:27 AM > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > > > > > > > > > I bought a spindle of 100 for $20 at best buy. They > > suck. They are > > > > > 700MB discs, but anything over 600MB fails. I'm extremely > > disappointed with > > > > > them, and I'm going to complain to PNY. > > > > > > Are you sure they're really 700mb disks? Do other brands of > > 700mb disks > > > work? I wouldn't put it beyond an ultra cheap brand like > > them to lie. ;P > > > > > > That or your burner just doesn't like high capacity media. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Tue Jun 5 11:20:03 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xsessions to Sun boxes (getting back to this) References: <3B1C4077.56A01BD0@mninter.net> <20010605075138.B49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <3B1CFF58.CE85EF23@mninter.net> <20010605105520.A49738@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B1D06B3.B378E442@mninter.net> dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote: > Well, there's no limit as far as the number is concerned, but eventually > you'll eventually consume so many of the sun box's resources as to make it > unusable. How many do you need to open to it? Unless you've got a pretty > beefy Sun (like an Ultra 60 or 80), I'd try to limit yourself to 10. > > Gabe Well, I'm only looking at one window open to a box at a time. But, here's what I'm looking at was setting up icons for a majority of the sun/dec-alpha boxes that I administer. Of course, only having them open when needed, as the box I'm doing this on is my laptop (P2-266) so I don't want a lot of things running unless it's absolutely necessary. The Sun boxes are anywhere from E250's and E450's on up, with a couple of smaller ones thrown in here and there. Shawn From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 5 11:38:27 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280872@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > My old burner died that way. It wouldn't fixate disks. It > started with a > couple and then, soon, it wouldn't fixate ANY disk. I hope > this is not the > case for you, but it happened to me that way. Perhaps you might try > cleaning the drive with compressed air. Doh, it's a brand new drive. I hope it's not going bad. My sony does it too though, so I'm pretty sure it's the media. > From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 5 11:46:02 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280872@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Doh, it's a brand new drive. I hope it's not going bad. My sony does it > too though, so I'm pretty sure it's the media. Everyone lay off Jay! The same CDs do the same thing in my drive, two drives at work and you'll note many other people on the LUG said they get a 50/50 success rate with them. -Yaron -- From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 5 11:55:25 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG-DEVEL] Re: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? In-Reply-To: <20010605074341.A49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu>; from dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 07:43:41AM -0500 References: <20010604041121.O18947@real-time.com> <20010605074341.A49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010605115525.D32656@real-time.com> Quoting dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu): > I noticed you don't have any thing that is directly acquirable from Sun > (jdks, swing, webstart, etc). Does Sun not allow redistribution of their > java stuff? Sun has a binary license only thing, so that is why there is nothing there except the .spec file. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Jun 5 12:09:41 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280871@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010605120941.N21402@ringworld.org> * Austad, Jay [010605 11:10]: > Then you have another single point of failure. With a *much higer* MTBF than a PC, mind you. *smack* -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/1ca5beda/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jun 5 12:17:10 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Switches with multiple monitoring ports? In-Reply-To: <20010605120941.N21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > > Then you have another single point of failure. > > With a *much higer* MTBF than a PC, mind you. > > *smack* unless you use a pc with a bunch of network cards bridged together for your hub.... -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 5 12:12:35 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Not exactly about Linux... Message-ID: http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=645750 Interesting article about the legal complexities of global ecommerce. Apparently 50 nations are meeting in 2 weeks to dicuss it. ~j From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jun 5 12:30:38 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? Message-ID: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after hearing about it...). I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I want to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need more memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) is there any way to install Slackware via FTP? the only install methods I see are floppy, CD, and NFS. also, should I grab the latest slackware-current stuff; or is 7.1 good enough for the moment? Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 5 13:05:02 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: Message-ID: <016f01c0edea$0b7e4a50$3028680a@tgt.com> Sooree. I have had a 100% success rate with the PNY disks. But the backing flakes off, which is NO good, and thus I won't buy them again. I was just suggesting that the disks themselves seem to work alright. I had purchased the 100 count 700MB spindle at Best Buy. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yaron" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? > Hi, > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > Doh, it's a brand new drive. I hope it's not going bad. My sony does it > > too though, so I'm pretty sure it's the media. > > Everyone lay off Jay! The same CDs do the same thing in my drive, two > drives at work and you'll note many other people on the LUG said they get > a 50/50 success rate with them. > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 5 13:08:21 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> Message-ID: <017801c0edea$81e9b080$3028680a@tgt.com> Slackware 7.1 has a bunch of security problems (buffer overflow exploits) that you should beware of. Slackware is a hard distribution to remain current (security-wise) with, unless you recompile the relavent packages yourself (which I like to do). Their packaging system is primitive and may blow things away without warning. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after hearing > about it...). > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I want > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need more > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) > > is there any way to install Slackware via FTP? the only install methods I > see are floppy, CD, and NFS. > > also, should I grab the latest slackware-current stuff; or is 7.1 good > enough for the moment? > > Carl Soderstrom > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 13:14:32 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> Message-ID: 7.1 is good enough (or I haven't been compelled to upgrade past it). the -current branch is ok to work with, just consider that with slackware there is no easy upgrade path so maybe it is less optimal to be in a between state. Of course, the first thing I do on installing slack is upgrade all sorts of stuff like binutils, other kernel related stuff. As for ftp... it's not in the gold distro. Perhaps someone has hacked the installer to do that but you'd have to get it separately. Of course, Debian has felt slackish to me and has the uber-nifty apt utility. Disclosure requires me to say that I've since switched back to slack 7.1 and openbsd (which has a nice distro upgrade tool). Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after hearing > about it...). > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I want > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need more > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) > > is there any way to install Slackware via FTP? the only install methods I > see are floppy, CD, and NFS. > > also, should I grab the latest slackware-current stuff; or is 7.1 good > enough for the moment? > > Carl Soderstrom > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joel at luths.net Tue Jun 5 13:48:41 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> Message-ID: <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> Quoting Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom : > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after > hearing > about it...). > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I > want > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need > more > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) > Seems to me I used to run RH5.something on a 386, 8-16MB RAM (don't recall), 500 MB HD. Was running all sorts of stuff, Apache, NFS, Samba, etc and as a firewall. Tried 4 MB RAM but no-go. Probably could have made it work at 4MB but back then I didn't know about turning down the minimum # servers for Apache (I think httpd's were chewing up all the mem so swap was thrashing). It's amazing what you can do if you forego a GUI. A 12MB 486 should be fine for experimentation. From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 5 15:58:16 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> Message-ID: <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> I ran slackware on a P60 with 8MB RAM and a 420MB HD. It ran fine as long as I didn't run X. With X it swapped like crazy when switching between apps. I upgraded to 24MB RAM it and ran X great - including Emacs, as any decent box should. I was running fvwm for a window manager - no gnome of kde in those days. It was also a 1.X kernel. Mike Bresnahan happy as noodlebutter to have a nibblet to add to the list ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? > Quoting Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom : > > > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after > > hearing > > about it...). > > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I > > want > > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need > > more > > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) > > > > Seems to me I used to run RH5.something on a 386, 8-16MB RAM (don't recall), > 500 MB HD. Was running all sorts of stuff, Apache, NFS, Samba, etc and as a > firewall. Tried 4 MB RAM but no-go. Probably could have made it work at 4MB but > back then I didn't know about turning down the minimum # servers for Apache (I > think httpd's were chewing up all the mem so swap was thrashing). It's amazing > what you can do if you forego a GUI. A 12MB 486 should be fine for > experimentation. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 14:12:48 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> Message-ID: Nah, 4MB is a no go. I have a 4MB laptop that I installed slack 3.something on. It turns out that all revs later than that simply wouldn't work in that small a space. I was finally able to get a single getty running ok, much of anything would swap the machine into oblivion for a good while. Let's just say that some operations took the same time as some television shows. I think that the extra few megs (8 even) would have really helped alot (it *is* twice the ram). Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > Quoting Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom : > > > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after > > hearing > > about it...). > > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I > > want > > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need > > more > > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) > > > > Seems to me I used to run RH5.something on a 386, 8-16MB RAM (don't recall), > 500 MB HD. Was running all sorts of stuff, Apache, NFS, Samba, etc and as a > firewall. Tried 4 MB RAM but no-go. Probably could have made it work at 4MB but > back then I didn't know about turning down the minimum # servers for Apache (I > think httpd's were chewing up all the mem so swap was thrashing). It's amazing > what you can do if you forego a GUI. A 12MB 486 should be fine for > experimentation. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jun 5 14:21:51 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:58:16PM -0700 References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:58:16PM -0700, Mike Bresnahan wrote: >apps. I upgraded to 24MB RAM it and ran X great - including Emacs, as any >decent box should. I was running fvwm for a window manager - no gnome of kde No decent box should _EVER_ be forced to run emacs. That's just plain hardware and OS abuse. hehe, sorry. Had to be done. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/9fd18119/attachment.pgp From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 5 16:26:49 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG-DEVEL] Re: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? References: <20010604041121.O18947@real-time.com> <20010605074341.A49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010605115525.D32656@real-time.com> Message-ID: <122501c0ee06$3b522eb0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Sun makes the source code available - I have it on my box. Is that not enough? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG-DEVEL] Re: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? > Quoting dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu): > > I noticed you don't have any thing that is directly acquirable from Sun > > (jdks, swing, webstart, etc). Does Sun not allow redistribution of their > > java stuff? > > Sun has a binary license only thing, so that is why there is nothing there > except the .spec file. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 14:25:15 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > No decent box should _EVER_ be forced to run emacs. > That's just plain hardware and OS abuse. > > hehe, sorry. Had to be done. Ben, you're an idiot. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jun 5 14:29:09 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:25:15PM -0500 References: <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010605142909.B9728@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:25:15PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: >Ben, you're an idiot. ;) Yes I am. But at least I admit it. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/1256b748/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 5 14:33:43 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG-DEVEL] Re: [TCLUG] Useful/Necessary Java projects? In-Reply-To: <122501c0ee06$3b522eb0$0300000a@anelginanalas>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:26:49PM -0700 References: <20010604041121.O18947@real-time.com> <20010605074341.A49524@sorry.cs.umn.edu> <20010605115525.D32656@real-time.com> <122501c0ee06$3b522eb0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <20010605143343.O32656@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Bresnahan (mike@fruitioninc.com): > Sun makes the source code available - I have it on my box. Is that not > enough? It's available, but cannot be redistributed by anyone but sun. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joel at luths.net Tue Jun 5 14:43:12 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: Tiny Linux [wasRe: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991770192.3b1d3650900ca@www.luths.net> Feel like I'm pushing this OT so changed the subject. There is a "4mb(sic)-Laptops" how-to at http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/4mb- Laptops.html. Only glanced at it, maybe what the author is suggesting is just a getty as well. And it hasn't been updated since 4/2000. Just throwin' it out there. Quoting Joshua Jore : > Nah, 4MB is a no go. I have a 4MB laptop that I installed slack > 3.something on. It turns out that all revs later than that simply > wouldn't > work in that small a space. I was finally able to get a single getty > running ok, much of anything would swap the machine into oblivion for a > good while. Let's just say that some operations took the same time as > some > television shows. I think that the extra few megs (8 even) would have > really helped alot (it *is* twice the ram). > > Josh > > ___SIG___ > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > > > Quoting Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom : > > > > > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after > > > hearing > > > about it...). > > > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB > HDD. I > > > want > > > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you > need > > > more > > > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory > was > > > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't > care.) > > > > > > > Seems to me I used to run RH5.something on a 386, 8-16MB RAM (don't > recall), > > 500 MB HD. Was running all sorts of stuff, Apache, NFS, Samba, etc and > as a > > firewall. Tried 4 MB RAM but no-go. Probably could have made it work > at 4MB but > > back then I didn't know about turning down the minimum # servers for > Apache (I > > think httpd's were chewing up all the mem so swap was thrashing). It's > amazing > > what you can do if you forego a GUI. A 12MB 486 should be fine for > > experimentation. > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Jun 5 14:35:43 2001 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com>; from chrome@real-time.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:30:38PM -0500 References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010605143543.A24972@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:30:38PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after hearing > about it...). > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I want > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need more > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) > > is there any way to install Slackware via FTP? the only install methods I > see are floppy, CD, and NFS. > > also, should I grab the latest slackware-current stuff; or is 7.1 good > enough for the moment? > > Carl Soderstrom > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I'm running a couple of web servers (thttpd) on a 486-DX4 with 16MB of memory and a few small hard drives. You shouldn't have much problem, once you get past the install. -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us home: 952-934-4851 Eden Prairie, MN 55346 fax: 952-937-9832 From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jun 5 14:48:01 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605143543.A24972@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us>; from jmk@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:35:43PM -0500 References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <20010605143543.A24972@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20010605144801.C15109@real-time.com> > I'm running a couple of web servers (thttpd) on a 486-DX4 with 16MB of > memory and a few small hard drives. You shouldn't have much problem, > once you get past the install. I used to run X (with AfterStep), a webserver (with perl CGIs), WordPerfect8, all on a 486/66 w/44MB of RAM. ran happy and snappy as a clam. this box used to be my OpenBSD firewall; and never really hit swap; so I'm not too concerned. I halfway want to do this just to put down Nate, who regards anything less than a PII-300 with 256MB as 'a piece of !$@*'. ;> Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 14:58:20 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:07 2005 Subject: Tiny Linux [wasRe: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware?] In-Reply-To: <991770192.3b1d3650900ca@www.luths.net> Message-ID: Yep, I did something similar. Since it only has a floppy, parallel port, serial port and 1200bps modem the task of getting something in was pretty hard. I ended up using a umsdos slack boot disk combined with the paride system to mount root on a parallel port superdisk drive. The superdisk had Slack's fine zipslack distro on it. (yes, it's great for exactly this sort of stuff). Given that I now had a fully operational system (talk about slow when your / is on the other end of an ancient parallel port) I just partitioned the 120mb hard drive and copied over what I wanted. I don't think I ever bothered with using the installer since that would make too many assumptions about how I needed everything. So... if someone would like a 4mb slack laptop I might give it up for a beer or two. I don't think I'll ever find a use for it now that the BSD machine is occupying my attention. Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > Feel like I'm pushing this OT so changed the subject. > > There is a "4mb(sic)-Laptops" how-to at http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/4mb- > Laptops.html. Only glanced at it, maybe what the author is suggesting is just a > getty as well. And it hasn't been updated since 4/2000. Just throwin' it out > there. > > Quoting Joshua Jore : > > > Nah, 4MB is a no go. I have a 4MB laptop that I installed slack > > 3.something on. It turns out that all revs later than that simply > > wouldn't > > work in that small a space. I was finally able to get a single getty > > running ok, much of anything would swap the machine into oblivion for a > > good while. Let's just say that some operations took the same time as > > some > > television shows. I think that the extra few megs (8 even) would have > > really helped alot (it *is* twice the ram). > > > > Josh > > > > ___SIG___ > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > > > > > Quoting Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom : > > > > > > > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after > > > > hearing > > > > about it...). > > > > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB > > HDD. I > > > > want > > > > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you > > need > > > > more > > > > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory > > was > > > > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't > > care.) > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me I used to run RH5.something on a 386, 8-16MB RAM (don't > > recall), > > > 500 MB HD. Was running all sorts of stuff, Apache, NFS, Samba, etc and > > as a > > > firewall. Tried 4 MB RAM but no-go. Probably could have made it work > > at 4MB but > > > back then I didn't know about turning down the minimum # servers for > > Apache (I > > > think httpd's were chewing up all the mem so swap was thrashing). It's > > amazing > > > what you can do if you forego a GUI. A 12MB 486 should be fine for > > > experimentation. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 5 15:14:48 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:21:51PM -0500 References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010605151448.A14689@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:21:51PM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:58:16PM -0700, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > >apps. I upgraded to 24MB RAM it and ran X great - including Emacs, as any > >decent box should. I was running fvwm for a window manager - no gnome of kde > > No decent box should _EVER_ be forced to run emacs. > That's just plain hardware and OS abuse. > > hehe, sorry. Had to be done. For those who attended the Saturday's meeting: I have found interesting the comparison sendmail/qmail as emacs/vi. AFAIK emacs can send e-mail 8)8)8) florin (started with emacs, now a vim user) -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From joel at luths.net Tue Jun 5 15:37:44 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: Tiny Linux [wasRe: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991773464.3b1d431846d40@www.luths.net> That's too hardcore for me. And I value beer more than that... Quoting Joshua Jore : > Yep, I did something similar. Since it only has a floppy, parallel port, > serial port and 1200bps modem the task of getting something in was > pretty > hard. I ended up using a umsdos slack boot disk combined with the paride > system to mount root on a parallel port superdisk drive. The superdisk > had > Slack's fine zipslack distro on it. (yes, it's great for exactly this > sort > of stuff). Given that I now had a fully operational system (talk about > slow when your / is on the other end of an ancient parallel port) I just > partitioned the 120mb hard drive and copied over what I wanted. I don't > think I ever bothered with using the installer since that would make too > many assumptions about how I needed everything. > > So... if someone would like a 4mb slack laptop I might give it up for a > beer or two. I don't think I'll ever find a use for it now that the BSD > machine is occupying my attention. > > Josh > > ___SIG___ > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Jun 5 15:33:59 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605151448.A14689@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010605153358.R21402@ringworld.org> * Florin Iucha [010605 15:17]: > comparison sendmail/qmail as emacs/vi. mmm. postfix-tls-sasl was fun :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/a8085f20/attachment.pgp From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 15:35:46 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: Tiny Linux [wasRe: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware?] In-Reply-To: <991773464.3b1d431846d40@www.luths.net> Message-ID: Regarding the beer, yeah, so do I. It's worth a try anyway. Hey, how about it's yours if you can do something nifty with it. (the battery doesn't work so it's corded only) Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > That's too hardcore for me. And I value beer more than that... > > Quoting Joshua Jore : > > > Yep, I did something similar. Since it only has a floppy, parallel port, > > serial port and 1200bps modem the task of getting something in was > > pretty > > hard. I ended up using a umsdos slack boot disk combined with the paride > > system to mount root on a parallel port superdisk drive. The superdisk > > had > > Slack's fine zipslack distro on it. (yes, it's great for exactly this > > sort > > of stuff). Given that I now had a fully operational system (talk about > > slow when your / is on the other end of an ancient parallel port) I just > > partitioned the 120mb hard drive and copied over what I wanted. I don't > > think I ever bothered with using the installer since that would make too > > many assumptions about how I needed everything. > > > > So... if someone would like a 4mb slack laptop I might give it up for a > > beer or two. I don't think I'll ever find a use for it now that the BSD > > machine is occupying my attention. > > > > Josh > > > > ___SIG___ > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Jun 5 15:45:06 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> Message-ID: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: > I've decided to finally give Slackware a try (about 5 years after hearing > about it...). > I have a 486 w/12MB of RAM and will probably end up with a 340MB HDD. I want > to set it up as a web server. (before you all shout out that 'you need more > memory than that!'; remember what it used to be like, before memory was > cheap.. it's not going to be a high-performance box, and I don't care.) I ran a 386/25 with 8 meg of ram as my web server for years. I don't still have usage charts from that far back, so I can't say what it was handling. I didn't, of course, run X on it! I believe that Slackware was the first distribution I ran on that box, in fact. (Before I got a web server up, I converted my BBS to running under Linux, and that worked very well for a while.) -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Jun 5 15:46:39 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: Ben Lutgens writes: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:58:16PM -0700, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > >apps. I upgraded to 24MB RAM it and ran X great - including Emacs, as any > >decent box should. I was running fvwm for a window manager - no gnome of kde > > No decent box should _EVER_ be forced to run emacs. > That's just plain hardware and OS abuse. > > hehe, sorry. Had to be done. Nonsense; emacs is the only editor worth even thinking about. If a box can't run emacs, it's a worthless toy. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 5 16:13:55 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: Tiny Linux [wasRe: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware?] References: Message-ID: <3B1D4B93.34F04E4D@haxxed.com> Joshua Jore wrote: > > Regarding the beer, yeah, so do I. It's worth a try anyway. Hey, how about > it's yours if you can do something nifty with it. (the battery doesn't > work so it's corded only) What brand/model is it? From joel at luths.net Tue Jun 5 16:33:51 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: Tiny Linux [wasRe: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991776831.3b1d503f222fb@www.luths.net> Nah, I'd give you a couple beers for it anyway. But chances are high I wouldn't do anything more with it than you are, so I'm sure someone else on the list could make better use of it. If my wife sees me bring another project home... Quoting Joshua Jore : > Regarding the beer, yeah, so do I. It's worth a try anyway. Hey, how > about > it's yours if you can do something nifty with it. (the battery doesn't > work so it's corded only) > > Josh > > ___SIG___ > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > > > That's too hardcore for me. And I value beer more than that... > > > > Quoting Joshua Jore : > > > > > Yep, I did something similar. Since it only has a floppy, parallel > port, > > > serial port and 1200bps modem the task of getting something in was > > > pretty > > > hard. I ended up using a umsdos slack boot disk combined with the > paride > > > system to mount root on a parallel port superdisk drive. The > superdisk > > > had > > > Slack's fine zipslack distro on it. (yes, it's great for exactly > this > > > sort > > > of stuff). Given that I now had a fully operational system (talk > about > > > slow when your / is on the other end of an ancient parallel port) I > just > > > partitioned the 120mb hard drive and copied over what I wanted. I > don't > > > think I ever bothered with using the installer since that would make > too > > > many assumptions about how I needed everything. > > > > > > So... if someone would like a 4mb slack laptop I might give it up > for a > > > beer or two. I don't think I'll ever find a use for it now that the > BSD > > > machine is occupying my attention. > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > ___SIG___ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 15:32:24 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010604203224.74943.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> i got the 110 in a box and i have not had much problems with them... though the skin on one or two did flake -munir --- Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs > when they were like $5 > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting > EXTREMELY large amounts > of failed burns on them? > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 17:45:03 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE:PNY CD-Rs In-Reply-To: <10106041730.AA18108@dart.dartdist.com> Message-ID: <20010604224503.61871.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> can you bring some to the installfest to be testdriven? if they are as good as you say they are then there may be a few buyers... -munir --- jspinti@dart.dartdist.com wrote: > I have been using PNY Black Diamond CD-Rs for quite > a while. I > have only burned maybe 2-3 coasters, and those were > my fault. I > use an HP 9300 ATAPI at 10X. > > I assume you are talking about the cheap PNY's on > the 50 ct spindle. > We distribute PNY, and the Black Diamonds are about > 20% higher cost, > but work much better. > > If you are interested in getting the Black Diamonds, > I think I could > work out some kind of a deal for the LUG. It would > be about $22 per 50 > count spindle. We usually only carry 5-10 at a > time, so you would have to > allow order time. > > Let me know if you are interested. It would have to > be through the LUG, not > individual orders, since we are a wholesaler. > > James Spinti > jspinti@dartdist.com > 952-368-3278 > 952-368-3255 (fax) > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ventes at par1000.com Mon Jun 4 20:06:24 2001 From: ventes at par1000.com (1000sorties.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] offre gratuite de publication Message-ID: <200106050203.VAA12705@mail21.domainhost.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From m_nassar at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 21:26:59 2001 From: m_nassar at yahoo.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010603015638.71752.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010605022659.32149.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> you know this really REALLY sucks... i posted this at least 2 days ago! i suppose this should encourage me to setup my own POP server... any special howtos/ recomendations? -munir --- Munir Nassar wrote: > actually, iposted this before you put that link, it > just got delayed because i use Yahoo! Mail... > > -munir > --- Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > If you didn't get the link to the DMT biased > > whitepaper I posted which has > > probably the best answers I've seen to your > > question, it's > > > > > http://support.aware.com/technology/whitepapers/dmt.html > > > > Cheers, > > Phil M > > > > > > On or about 1 Jun 2001, Munir Nassar is alleged to > > have said: > > > is one better or faster than the other? why > would > > they > > > switch? what are the pros and cons of each? > > > > > > -munir > > > --- Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > > > > > > > So, being a naive DSL user, what the heck is > > CAP > > > > and DMT and if my modem > > > > > doesn't do those yet why should it? > > > > > > > > Your modem does one of the two. They are two > of > > the > > > > encoding formats for > > > > DSL. Think of AM/FM, or better the two > > incompatible > > > > formats that were > > > > in use for 56K (still are?) a couple of years > > ago. > > > > > > > > CAP is Carrierless Amplitude/Phase modulation, > > and > > > > DMT is discrete > > > > multi-tone. It's the physical layer. If it > > works, > > > > don't worry about it > > > > -- but you might look at which you're using. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." > > > > --Anonymous > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > > Version: 3.12 > > > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ > > w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ > > > PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ > > DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! > Mail > > - only $35 > > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > --Begin signature-- > > X > > ---End signature--- > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ > w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ > X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - > only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ===== -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pc451 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 5 06:29:08 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linus on NPR on Monday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010605112908.81281.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com> Listened to the show last night with my wife; I agree with the assesment that the interviewer was really out of her element. (I had to cringe when she admitted not knowing what VA Linux is about--do journalists no longer research?) However, all in all, Linus handled the questions well. Even my non-techie wife was impressed. Thought he sounded like a nice guy. :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pc451 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 5 07:40:28 2001 From: pc451 at yahoo.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? Message-ID: <20010605124028.58290.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> I just heard through the grapevine that the Installfest for June 16th has been cancelled because the meeting room is unavailable? Is this true? Has there been a change of date/location? :Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 17:18:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My Cisco 675 CBOS Linux HOW-TO In-Reply-To: <20010605022659.32149.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Munir Nassar wrote: > you know this really REALLY sucks... i posted this at > least 2 days ago! > > i suppose this should encourage me to setup my own POP > server... any special howtos/ recomendations? The Mail-Administrator and Domain-mini HOWTO's come to mind... -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From fertch at mninter.net Tue Jun 5 17:11:34 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Nonsense; emacs is the only editor worth even thinking > about. If a box can't run emacs, it's a worthless toy. Soooo.... what do YOU do when you get on a box that doesn't have emacs and you can't install the package? From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 17:24:29 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010605124028.58290.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > I just heard through the grapevine that the Installfest for June > 16th has been cancelled because the meeting room is unavailable? Is > this true? Has there been a change of date/location? The gent at Benchmark who has been coming in to do setup and tear down is leaving for another job, and won't be there. Clay said that we should probably postpone. If you (or anyone else) knows a hall we could get for free, e-mail Clay. The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere with some folks real lives. Jacque and Clay, sorry if I'm starting to encroach upon your turf. Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Tue Jun 5 16:47:21 2001 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John Joseph Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com>; from fertch@mninter.net on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 05:11:34PM -0500 References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> Message-ID: <20010605164721.A29314@mn.rr.com> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 05:11:34PM -0500, Shawn wrote: > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Nonsense; emacs is the only editor worth even thinking > > about. If a box can't run emacs, it's a worthless toy. > > Soooo.... what do YOU do when you get on a box that doesn't have > emacs and you can't install the package? -- According to the Genesis account, the tower of Babel was man's second major engineering undertaking, after Noah's ark. Babel was the first engineering fiasco. - F. Brooks, _The Mythical Man-Month_ From jspinti at mn.rr.com Tue Jun 5 18:52:16 2001 From: jspinti at mn.rr.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE:PNY CD-Rs In-Reply-To: <20010604224503.61871.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010604224503.61871.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01060518521600.01454@pii400> I am going to Dexis tomorrow. How about I drop some off at Real Time? On Monday 04 June 2001 17:45, you wrote: > can you bring some to the installfest to be > testdriven? if they are as good as you say they are > then there may be a few buyers... > > -munir > > --- jspinti@dart.dartdist.com wrote: > > I have been using PNY Black Diamond CD-Rs for quite > > a while. I > > have only burned maybe 2-3 coasters, and those were > > my fault. I > > use an HP 9300 ATAPI at 10X. > > > > I assume you are talking about the cheap PNY's on > > the 50 ct spindle. > > We distribute PNY, and the Black Diamonds are about > > 20% higher cost, > > but work much better. > > > > If you are interested in getting the Black Diamonds, > > I think I could > > work out some kind of a deal for the LUG. It would > > be about $22 per 50 > > count spindle. We usually only carry 5-10 at a > > time, so you would have to > > allow order time. > > > > Let me know if you are interested. It would have to > > be through the LUG, not > > individual orders, since we are a wholesaler. > > > > James Spinti > > jspinti@dartdist.com > > 952-368-3278 > > 952-368-3255 (fax) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ===== > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT GIT dpu- s:- a19 C++ UL P+ L+(++) E--- W+ N+ w(--) K? O-- M- V- PS+ > PE-(--) Y-- PGP-(---) t 5+++ X R tv-- b+++ D++ DI++ G e+ h+() r- y+ UF++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- James Spinti jspinti@mn.rr.com From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 18:56:00 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010605124028.58290.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: So help me out here. My involvement in tclug is this e-mail list. And a room at Strictly Business a year ago. If you're like me and play with boot loaders for fun what is there at an installfest to do? I've never been to one and they seem to be scheduled contrawise to my calendar but I'd make time if it seemed like it was worth it. So why is it worth it? I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious, would like to meet some folks in person but don't feel like being out of place at something like this. Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > I just heard through the grapevine that the Installfest for June > 16th has been cancelled because the meeting room is unavailable? Is > this true? Has there been a change of date/location? > :Peter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From BurtMetcalf at mediaone.net Tue Jun 5 17:56:56 2001 From: BurtMetcalf at mediaone.net (Kurt Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNY CD-Rs? References: Message-ID: <3B1D63B8.C24A9CCA@mediaone.net> Brian wrote: > Yaron speaketh: > > Anyone here get some of those PNY-labelled CD-Rs when they were like $5 > > for a spindle of 50? And if so... are you getting EXTREMELY large amounts > > of failed burns on them? > > So fat I've tried like 15 and only 5 have worked! > > John Miller added: > > I bought a spindle and had about a 50% success rate with them. > > What speed are you burning at? I've got the PNY's at home and burned at > 4x I have yet to burn a coaster. I haven't tried fitting 700 MB on yet, > so I maybe it has problems I haven't encountered yet. > > The flaky reflective stuff is the reason I don't store anything important > on them. I got what I paid for... a disposable CDR. They work great for > burning linux ISOs and stuff for short term use. Generally I don't like > to keep ISOs around for two long because I'd rather have a disc with the > latest packages and patches so I don't have to dig after installing. The > discs I really like (and I can't always find) are the paper-covered > discs.. I feel MUCH safer storing stuff on them because the reflective > stuff won't chip off, you have to intentionally peel the sticker off. > > -Brian > I bought 50 of them at Best Buy a couple of months ago and have gone through around 30 of them without making a coaster. Many of them were burned at 8x, but lately the dummy burn reported problems so I burned them at 4x. Many of them have been close to 700mb. Maybe I got a good batch or am just getting lucky. Kurt > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 5 19:36:48 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010605193648.A32717@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 06:56:00PM -0500, Joshua Jore wrote: > So why is it worth it? I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious, would > like to meet some folks in person but don't feel like being out of place > at something like this. - Get help installing something you're not familiar with (it doesn't have to be a full system fresh install; you can get help setting up PCMCIA drivers or a video card, too) - Give help to people installing things you are familiar with - Meet new LUGgies in person - Socialize with LUGgies you already know - Hang out in one of the few places where you can be in a room with even more computers than you have at home - Swap old hardware And I'm sure there are a few things I've missed. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 5 19:38:04 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010605193804.B32717@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 05:24:29PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of > July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would > be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from > Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere > with some folks real lives. Real life? Overrated. I think it'd be pretty cool too, although I'm not quite sure what a Boston 10BaseT party would involve... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Jun 5 19:40:58 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> Message-ID: Shawn writes: > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Nonsense; emacs is the only editor worth even thinking > > about. If a box can't run emacs, it's a worthless toy. > > > Soooo.... what do YOU do when you get on a box that doesn't have emacs > and you can't install the package? Dunno; hasn't happened to me yet. I've been running emacs since I started 20 years ago (running the original ITS emacs, written in TECO, on a TOPS-20 system under the "incompatibility package" which allows ITS programs to run on TOPS-20). I've used that, JOVE, Gosling, GNU, Epsilon, Emacs command mode in Borland's Sprint and Microsoft's Visual Studio, and at least one other version (for TOPS-10) that I can't remember. I've been able to find emacs-like editors on more classes of boxes than vi was available for, anyway. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 19:50:56 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010605193804.B32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Real life? Overrated. I think it'd be pretty cool too, although I'm not > quite sure what a Boston 10BaseT party would involve... Well, we could probably set up something small this year, but it's kind of late for a big shindig. (Though my wife does work at Sysco, and we can buy all sorts of party food wholesale...) I think the 10BaseT party would be have every Linux user that can be mustered ping something at microsoft.com en masse all day. Grind it to a halt, with no particular overhead on any individual machine, and be so numerous as to be deniable -- "it was a virus. No computer's impervious, I guess." It's fun to think of, anyway. Reminds me of what the painter Paul Gaugin said: "Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge." ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From andy at theasis.com Tue Jun 5 20:18:57 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010605193648.A32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: > - Get help installing something you're not familiar with (it doesn't have to > be a full system fresh install; you can get help setting up PCMCIA drivers or > a video card, too) > > - Give help to people installing things you are familiar with > > - Meet new LUGgies in person > > - Socialize with LUGgies you already know > > - Hang out in one of the few places where you can be in a room with even more > computers than you have at home > > - Swap old hardware > > And I'm sure there are a few things I've missed. - See something (app or hardware) working in Linux that you were always interested in, but not enough to motivate you to try it on your own. But then you find at the installfest that it's really cool so you then run home and install it. Andy From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Tue Jun 5 20:27:14 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] offre gratuite de publication In-Reply-To: <200106050203.VAA12705@mail21.domainhost.com> Message-ID: Right -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of 1000sorties.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 1:06 AM To: 1000sorties@mail21.domainhost.com Subject: [TCLUG] offre gratuite de publication Vous qui organisez des activit?s publiques pour votre association, votre collectivit?, votre entreprise, Connaissez-vous 1000sorties.com ? Vous pouvez y publier vos annonces : vous-m?me, (vous les agencez ? votre go?t) longtemps ? l'avance, (qq jours, ou plusieurs mois.) Les visiteurs viennent quand ils veulent : l'info est toujours l?, (de nuit comme de jour.) simple ? trouver... pour toutes les communes de France (villes et villages sont tous r?f?renc?s.) Les 1000 premi?res inscriptions seront gratuites. Vous pourrez ensuite passer vos annonces pour un co?t que nous garantissons ?tonnamment modeste (nous contacter.) http://www.1000sorties.com Le premier site de sorties au niveau national ? interactivit? totale. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/e769e3a7/attachment.htm From john at mn.mediaone.net Tue Jun 5 19:30:28 2001 From: john at mn.mediaone.net (johndmiller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Message-ID: I am starting to get into securing things on my box. I have RH 7.0 and applied the security patches for the RH site. I have purchased the book Linux Security Tools. The first chapter talks about pam in the last part of the first chapter. My question is, when do I know when pam is being used for authentication and when is it not. I log in to my machine from work using telnet. Would pam be used for that or some other service. Second question: I am getting messages like : portmap[9271] connect from 202.105.205.141 to dump(): request from unauthorized host portmap[?] connct from 200.221.96.88 to getport(status) request from unauthoriezed host What are these unauthorized people trying to do? I have in my hosts.deny all:all and hosts.allow the only two ip that I would log in from. TIA for all comments John Miller From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 5 20:49:35 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, johndmiller wrote: > I log in to my machine from work using telnet. DON'T DO THAT. PAM or no PAM! Don't do it. Install SSH asap, and change your passwords. /var/log/messages should have a PAM message if you're using PAM. -Yaron -- From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue Jun 5 20:55:48 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? References: Message-ID: <3B1D8DA2.31F87841@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of > July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would > be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from > Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere > with some folks real lives. OOOOOOOOWwwwwww!!! The pain. Are you a teacher? That sounds suspiciously like teacher humor. I'm reminded of my second grade teacher.....And my 6th grade teacher.....And my high school Algebra teacher. :-) BTW, my second grade teacher *ROCKS* and my high school Algebra teacher is the coolest guy I know. (Doesn't make the jokes any better though) :-) sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue Jun 5 21:06:30 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security References: Message-ID: <3B1D9023.A4E99A36@eetc.com> johndmiller wrote: > I am starting to get into securing things on my box. I have RH 7.0 and > applied the security patches for the RH site. I have purchased the book > Linux Security Tools. The first chapter talks about pam in the last part > of the first chapter. My question is, when do I know when pam is being > used for authentication and when is it not. I log in to my machine from > work using telnet. Would pam be used for that or some other service. AAAAAAHHHHHH. NO NO NO NO NO NO. Say it ain't so. SAY IT AIN'T SO. You should switch to OpenSSH emediately. IP's are spoofed very easily and telnet sends your password in cleartext - No cracking involved. Switch to OpenSSH and change all you passwords. > Second question: > I am getting messages like : > portmap[9271] connect from 202.105.205.141 to dump(): request from > unauthorized host > > portmap[?] connct from 200.221.96.88 to getport(status) request from > unauthoriezed host Probably people scanning IP blocks and looking for telnet daemons. > > > What are these unauthorized people trying to do? They may be trying to hack you connection. > I have in my hosts.deny all:all and hosts.allow the only two ip that I > would log in from. Like I said, IP's are spoofed very very easily. Authentication by IP is not enough. If you really want to be secure install OpenSSH and generate your public/private key pairs. Put the public key on your computer at home and set up some automatic logins. No password involved. Oddly enough it's more secure than passwords. Much easier than telnet and very secure. My $0.02 sim From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 5 21:22:38 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <3B1D9023.A4E99A36@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010605212238.E32717@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:06:30PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > johndmiller wrote: > > I log in to my machine from > > work using telnet. > > AAAAAAHHHHHH. NO NO NO NO NO NO. > Say it ain't so. SAY IT AIN'T SO. Allow me to join the chorus of horror... If you think we're overplaying the paranoia about using telnet over a network you don't have 100% control over, get a copy of ngrep and read the man page. Their standard example is `ngrep 'user|pass'`, which will capture and display (or log, if you tack on a simple ` > passwords.log`) every "username" or "password" prompt that passes through the machine (or, if it's hooked up to a hub, any machine on that hub). Another parameter to ngrep will cause it to also grab the next few packets on the connection which carried the prompt, thus also capturing the response. This isn't paranoia. Grabbing passwords off an unencrypted session really is that simple. > > portmap[9271] connect from 202.105.205.141 to dump(): request from > > unauthorized host > > > > portmap[?] connct from 200.221.96.88 to getport(status) request from > > unauthoriezed host > > Probably people scanning IP blocks and looking for telnet daemons. Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those requests are asking about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of finding a vulnerable NIS or NFS installation. > No password involved. Oddly enough it's more secure than passwords. > Much easier than telnet and very secure. Yup. Ain't ssh great? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 21:32:28 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <3B1D8DA2.31F87841@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of > > July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would > > be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from > > Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere > > with some folks real lives. > > OOOOOOOOWwwwwww!!! The pain. > Are you a teacher? That sounds suspiciously like teacher humor. No. I just like to BBQ, and a bunch of LUGnuts at a BBQ sounded like fun. Once, anyway. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 21:56:02 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010605215602.21c400cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> johndmiller wrote: > > Second question: > I am getting messages like : > portmap[9271] connect from 202.105.205.141 to dump(): request from > unauthorized host First off, you shouldn't be running portmap unless you're in a network that uses NIS or are mounting NFS shares. most people don't need to be running much at all in the way of network services. SSH, lpd, and sendmail are more than enough. Include identd if you use IRC. Sendmail on modern RedHat distributions only listens to 127.0.0.1 by default. LPD needs to be trained. I think it's also worthwhile to drop connection requests to port 6000, the default X Windows port, since I usually tunnel my X applications over SSH, and am therefore usually using Unix domain sockets. With iptables, you can do something like this to block others from connecting to open ports on your system: iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp --dport printer -j REJECT \ --reject-with tcp-reset Replace `eth0' with appropriate device names (not `lo') and `printer' with appropriate port names or numbers. The `--reject-with tcp-reset' will prevent those ports from showing up as `filtered' with nmap. You can drop X connections and/or set up X Windows to not listen to TCP connections. Wherever your X session starts up, add the parameter `-nolisten tcp'. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Find your aim in life, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ before you run out of \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) ammunition [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010605/f5ae1292/attachment.pgp From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Tue Jun 5 21:59:49 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Message-ID: <010605215949.20204305@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi >Put the public key on your computer at home and set up some automatic >logins. >No password involved. Oddly enough it's more secure than passwords. >Much easier than telnet and very secure. Is this really true??? Best practice? Seems too good to be true. I've gotten that piece to work, but have shied away from it cuz it seemed the password challenge would be better. Guess I'm not all that sure why I thought that, though. Thanks Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 5 22:18:20 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <010605215949.20204305@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010605221820.F32717@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:59:49PM -0500, HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > >Put the public key on your computer at home and set up some automatic > >logins. > >No password involved. Oddly enough it's more secure than passwords. > >Much easier than telnet and very secure. > > Is this really true??? Best practice? > > Seems too good to be true. I've gotten that piece to work, but have shied away > from it cuz it seemed the password challenge would be better. Guess I'm not all > that sure why I thought that, though. There is one caveat: You must generate keys with (good) passphrases. If you leave the passphrase blank, then I tend to agree with you that it's insecure, since access to the key-holding account would give free reign over all accounts that recognize that key (and ~/.ssh/known_hosts would make finding those accounts pretty easy). With a good passphrase, though, the key itself is locked up quite nicely also. Just remember not to walk away while logged in without locking your terminal first. But you do that anyway, right? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Jun 5 22:24:14 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <20010605212238.E32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those requests are asking > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of finding a vulnerable > NIS or NFS installation. Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's using RPC? Is it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports strewn about that can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm worried about on my system. back to the original question on security, port scans are part of life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their port scanners because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just like in the movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, are you on a cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one even looked at my box but on cable in the last week I've collected large amounts of IP addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been targeting FTP, which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at that point. Real bright ones, they are! :-) tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in hosts.deny lets me sleep at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP requests on my outside interface just to thwart the really stupid kiddies. Between these two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup script to make sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. -Brian From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 23:21:14 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well that all sounds pretty cool. Maybe I'll see you folks around sometime then. Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > - Get help installing something you're not familiar with (it doesn't have to > > be a full system fresh install; you can get help setting up PCMCIA drivers or > > a video card, too) > > > > - Give help to people installing things you are familiar with > > > > - Meet new LUGgies in person > > > > - Socialize with LUGgies you already know > > > > - Hang out in one of the few places where you can be in a room with even more > > computers than you have at home > > > > - Swap old hardware > > > > And I'm sure there are a few things I've missed. > > - See something (app or hardware) working in Linux that you were always > interested in, but not enough to motivate you to try it on your own. > But then you find at the installfest that it's really cool so you then > run home and install it. > > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 5 23:30:07 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Let me just chime in for a sec. Even better than twidling with hosts.[allow|deny] is a set of good block-by-default ip filtering chains. I can't offer any actual advice on configuring ip since I only expose OpenBSD to the wide internet. That's got a totally awesome package 'ipf' (which may be supplanted with OpenIPF shortly). In general though, it is better policy to prevent the traffic from ever reaching tcpd. Josh ___SIG___ On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those requests are asking > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of finding a vulnerable > > NIS or NFS installation. > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's using RPC? Is > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports strewn about that > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm worried about on > my system. > > back to the original question on security, port scans are part of > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their port scanners > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just like in the > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, are you on a > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one even looked at my > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large amounts of IP > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been targeting FTP, > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at that point. Real > bright ones, they are! :-) > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in hosts.deny lets me sleep > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP requests on my > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid kiddies. Between these > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup script to make > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 01:06:57 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q Message-ID: Can someone take a quick peek and tell me why I'm not getting through the firewall from the outside? Here is the ipchain. I just want to forward port 80 (www) requests to an internal host. Chain forward (policy DENY): target prot opt source destination ports ACCEPT tcp ------ 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.1.1 80 -> 80 MASQ all ------ 192.168.1.0/24 0.0.0.0/0 n/a When I try to lynx in from the U (to http://rephil.org or http://www.rephil.org) it tells me it cannot connect to host, but nslookup or dig both give the right spots for it, and I can ssh into the firewall from there. Hrm. TIA, Phil From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jun 6 04:29:08 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? References: <20010605193648.A32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B1DF7E4.F7C68DB9@haxxed.com> > - Hang out in one of the few places where you can be in a room with even more > computers than you have at home > > - Swap old hardware > > And I'm sure there are a few things I've missed. Sit around playing Phantasy Star Online on the dreamcast you brought, your excuse being you have a CDR with dreamcast linux... From barnabas at knicknack.net Wed Jun 6 06:03:06 2001 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:06:57AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010606060306.A13794@knicknack.net> The way I'd do it is to change the first rule below so that the destination IP is the external IP on your firewall. I think you know that you can't route traffic from the greater Internet to a non-routable address like 192.168.1.1 so accepting traffic for that address on your firewall is useless; it should never happen (barring spoofing or something like that). You may also need to make sure your forward (and output) rules allow traffic to the web server. Finally, if you don't already have it, you'll also need a port forward command (ipmasqadm portfw) to forward traffic from port 80 on the external I/F of the firewall to port 80 on the internal web server. Hope that helps, Eric On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:06:57AM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Can someone take a quick peek and tell me why I'm not getting through the > firewall from the outside? Here is the ipchain. I just want to forward > port 80 (www) requests to an internal host. > > > Chain forward (policy DENY): target prot opt source destination ports > ACCEPT tcp ------ 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.1.1 80 -> 80 > MASQ all ------ 192.168.1.0/24 0.0.0.0/0 n/a > > When I try to lynx in from the U (to http://rephil.org or > http://www.rephil.org) it tells me it cannot connect to host, but nslookup > or dig both give the right spots for it, and I can ssh into the firewall > from there. Hrm. > > TIA, > > Phil From clay at fandre.com Wed Jun 6 06:28:22 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? References: Message-ID: <3B1E13D6.5512137F@fandre.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Peter Clark wrote: > > > I just heard through the grapevine that the Installfest for June > > 16th has been cancelled because the meeting room is unavailable? Is > > this true? Has there been a change of date/location? > > The gent at Benchmark who has been coming in to do setup and tear down is > leaving for another job, and won't be there. Clay said that we should > probably postpone. If you (or anyone else) knows a hall we could get for > free, e-mail Clay. Phil is right. We are trying to whip up plan B, but it isn't looking too good. I will probably update the webpage today and send out an announcement. :-( > > The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of > July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would > be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from > Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere > with some folks real lives. > > Jacque and Clay, sorry if I'm starting to encroach upon your turf. The "UG" in TCLUG means Users Group. To me that means everyone in the group owns the turf. Heck, if someone wanted to take over my responsibilities, all they have to do is ask. From eng at pinenet.com Wed Jun 6 06:54:38 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome Message-ID: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> Having read comparisons between KDE and Gnome, I'd like to include the Star Office 5.2 desktop for consideration. It is a remarkably complete UI. Also, you don't have a "K" or "GN" on every app. Just hide the panel and you have a very clean, professional desktop True, SO5.2 on KDE or Gnome is a "bloated pig" for RAM. But pare down your kernel and 128MB RAM seems plenty. (RAM has gotten very cheap in newer mobos.) As an MS Office 97 user, Star Office 5.2 is a huge improvement. There are some gotchyas but not bugs, just different methods used. For example, when you log out make sure to close SO first, or don't use "restore session" or you will likely hang. The browser in SO5.2 is very clean with a perfect bookmark idea. The word processor is quite different than MS Word. All other Office functions are much more intuitive and assemble like a web and frames. Mostly, I like the email in SO5.2. After subscribing to TCLUG, my MS Outlook 97 was unable to handle the sorting. Netscape mail was worse. Kmail was too crude. But SO5.2 has a great set of "rules" you can configure. These rules include the "move" command to easily set up separate folders. Now you guys get routed out of my face. I believe the Star Office 5.2 app makes the Linux OS practical for many more people. The wonders of Linux system configuration remain for the true, under the hood, computer mechanic. Now a very clean UI makes for a complete system. Modern software is truly spectacular. I've worked with PC's since the Altair 8800 in 1980(?). The world has greatly changed for the better thanks to so many talented people. The internet and now the (almost) free software movement will do more than any political entity to make the world a friendlier place. (Can Gov. Jesse do Linux ??) Rick Mora, MN. From clay at fandre.com Wed Jun 6 08:17:39 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatic post of file to webform Message-ID: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com> I'm looking for a perl script to automatically upload a file to a web form on a remote web server running https. Anyone have any ideas? I know there are some perl modules that will allow you to submit forms automatically, but didn't know if they handled files or https. Plus I didn't want to reinvent the wheel if someone already has something. TIA. -- Clay From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jun 6 08:24:33 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome>; from eng@pinenet.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:54:38AM +0000 References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:54:38AM +0000, Rick Engebretson wrote: >Having read comparisons between KDE and Gnome, I'd like to include the >Star Office 5.2 desktop for consideration. It is a remarkably complete >UI. Also, you don't have a "K" or "GN" on every app. Just hide the panel >and you have a very clean, professional desktop > Star Office sucks. It's not viable at all as an alternative to M$ Products if you're in an environment with lots of windows users and need to exchange documents. We had people here try it for a long time. They ended up spending so much time reformatting documents that thier productivity decreased. Everything from bullets in slides to formula discomboulation in Excell to page break errors and tables being all out-of-whac in word. If you really need to use your office apps, you'll use M$. If you're a geek, use flat text, or PostScript, or even go so far as to fireup vmware and run MS products from that. Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not a desktop OS your grandma would want to use and it goes deeper than just the lack of a decent processor. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010606/9575a92f/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jun 6 08:25:40 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatic post of file to webform In-Reply-To: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:17:39AM -0500 References: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com> Message-ID: <20010606082540.B24575@minime.sistina.com> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:17:39AM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: >I'm looking for a perl script to automatically upload a file to a web form on a >remote web server running https. Anyone have any ideas? I know there are some >perl modules that will allow you to submit forms automatically, but didn't know >if they handled files or https. Plus I didn't want to reinvent the wheel if >someone already has something. You could find one of those "First Post" perl scripts people are apparently using to be jackasses on slashdork :-) > >TIA. > >-- Clay >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010606/e2b7c2b5/attachment.pgp From clay at fandre.com Wed Jun 6 08:31:35 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatic post of file to webform In-Reply-To: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com> References: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com> Message-ID: <991834295.3b1e30b77ba3c@mail.fandre.com> Quoting Clay Fandre : > I'm looking for a perl script to automatically upload a file to a web > form on a > remote web server running https. Anyone have any ideas? I know there are > some > perl modules that will allow you to submit forms automatically, but > didn't know > if they handled files or https. Plus I didn't want to reinvent the wheel > if > someone already has something. BTW, I'm planning on using LWP and HTTP::Request::Common, unless someone else has a better suggestion. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 08:40:15 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that > takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not > a desktop OS your grandma would want to use and it goes deeper than just the > lack of a decent processor. Aw, come on, Ben. Tell us what you *really* think! :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jun 6 08:42:59 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatic post of file to webform In-Reply-To: <20010606082540.B24575@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010606084259.A5306@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:25:40AM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:17:39AM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > >I'm looking for a perl script to automatically upload a file to a web form on a > >remote web server running https. > You could find one of those "First Post" perl scripts people are apparently > using to be jackasses on slashdork :-) No, I don't think they handle https very well. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From fertch at mninter.net Wed Jun 6 09:05:19 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> Message-ID: <3B1E389F.9F2558EB@mninter.net> David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Dunno; hasn't happened to me yet. I've been running emacs since I > started 20 years ago (running the original ITS emacs, written in TECO, > on a TOPS-20 system under the "incompatibility package" which allows > ITS programs to run on TOPS-20). I've used that, JOVE, Gosling, GNU, > Epsilon, Emacs command mode in Borland's Sprint and Microsoft's Visual > Studio, and at least one other version (for TOPS-10) that I can't > remember. > > I've been able to find emacs-like editors on more classes of boxes > than vi was available for, anyway. Interesting point. Was just trying to make a statement that not all boxes have emacs on them, but from what I've been able to discern vi is always on a box. Not a slam mind you, just a point trying to bring up. I couldn't navigate my way through emacs if I wanted to at this time as I prefer and spcificly use vi. Shawn From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 09:34:52 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE:PNY CD-Rs In-Reply-To: <01060518521600.01454@pii400> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, James Spinti wrote: > I am going to Dexis tomorrow. How about I drop some off at Real Time? If you really want to, feel free. I'll be here all day. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jun 6 09:37:29 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628087A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I think you need to use ipmasqadm with the "portfw" option. Get rid of that ipchains rule first. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Stanley [mailto:barnabas@knicknack.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:03 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q > > > The way I'd do it is to change the first rule below so that the > destination IP is the external IP on your firewall. I think you know > that you can't route traffic from the greater Internet to a > non-routable address like 192.168.1.1 so accepting traffic for that > address on your firewall is useless; it should never happen (barring > spoofing or something like that). > > You may also need to make sure your forward (and output) rules allow > traffic to the web server. > > Finally, if you don't already have it, you'll also need a port forward > command (ipmasqadm portfw) to forward traffic from port 80 on the > external I/F of the firewall to port 80 on the internal web server. > > Hope that helps, > > Eric > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:06:57AM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > Can someone take a quick peek and tell me why I'm not > getting through the > > firewall from the outside? Here is the ipchain. I just > want to forward > > port 80 (www) requests to an internal host. > > > > > > Chain forward (policy DENY): target prot opt source > destination ports > > ACCEPT tcp ------ 0.0.0.0/0 192.168.1.1 > 80 -> 80 > > MASQ all ------ 192.168.1.0/24 0.0.0.0/0 n/a > > > > When I try to lynx in from the U (to http://rephil.org or > > http://www.rephil.org) it tells me it cannot connect to > host, but nslookup > > or dig both give the right spots for it, and I can ssh into > the firewall > > from there. Hrm. > > > > TIA, > > > > Phil > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 09:42:26 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: <20010606060306.A13794@knicknack.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Eric Stanley wrote: > The way I'd do it is to change the first rule below so that the > destination IP is the external IP on your firewall. I think you know > that you can't route traffic from the greater Internet to a > non-routable address like 192.168.1.1 so accepting traffic for that > address on your firewall is useless; it should never happen (barring > spoofing or something like that). OK, sure -- thanks. What I get for doing it in the wee hours. > You may also need to make sure your forward (and output) rules allow > traffic to the web server. Right now output is set for -P ACCEPT. For the forward rules to allow web traffic, would I want -j MASQ or -j ACCEPT? from everywhere on port 80? It's a little unclear where the forward rules end and the portfw takes over. > Finally, if you don't already have it, you'll also need a port forward > command (ipmasqadm portfw) to forward traffic from port 80 on the > external I/F of the firewall to port 80 on the internal web server. > > Hope that helps, Quite a bit -- what's not clear is where does the port forwarding take place in the IPchain. Or does it happen outside, and if so, when / how. I think it's not as much like an audio/video patch panel as they lead one to believe, or am I just a little lost in the woods? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 09:56:07 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? References: Message-ID: <3B1E4479.7527748@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > > The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of > > > July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would > > > be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from > > > Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere > > > with some folks real lives. > > > > OOOOOOOOWwwwwww!!! The pain. > > Are you a teacher? That sounds suspiciously like teacher humor. > > No. I just like to BBQ, and a bunch of LUGnuts at a BBQ sounded like > fun. Once, anyway. Wouldn't mind a BBQ. The installfests so far happen on dates I couldn't attend. Maybe I can get to the next one. sim From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 09:59:07 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628087A@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > I think you need to use ipmasqadm with the "portfw" option. Get rid of that > ipchains rule first. Is there any interaction between ipmasqadm portfw and ipchains? I've tried it with nothing in the forward section and that doesn't seem to get it. I've also tried it with both, but that doesn't seem to do it either. Thanks, Phil -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 10:00:00 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security References: <20010605221820.F32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B1E4563.55352C13@eetc.com> Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:59:49PM -0500, HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > > >Put the public key on your computer at home and set up some automatic > > >logins. > > >No password involved. Oddly enough it's more secure than passwords. > > >Much easier than telnet and very secure. > > > > Is this really true??? Best practice? > > > > Seems too good to be true. I've gotten that piece to work, but have shied away > > from it cuz it seemed the password challenge would be better. Guess I'm not all > > that sure why I thought that, though. If you trust the computer yes it is. I have to use a Mac at work that is sitting right out in the open and must be available for others to work on. I don't use keys on this computer. Too easy to get to and steal the keys. Although with a passphrase that would also be secure. > There is one caveat: You must generate keys with (good) passphrases. If you > leave the passphrase blank, then I tend to agree with you that it's insecure, > since access to the key-holding account would give free reign over all > accounts that recognize that key (and ~/.ssh/known_hosts would make finding > those accounts pretty easy). With a good passphrase, though, the key itself > is locked up quite nicely also. Just remember not to walk away while logged > in without locking your terminal first. But you do that anyway, right? That's the point. No restrictions on access. I use this on my laptop. No one uses this and it isn't hooked up to the net. I would use a passphrase but It's already acceptably secure for what I use it for. If your at all suspicious of your computer security than use passphrases or stick with password authentication. Either is more secure then telnet. sim From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 10:16:55 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > I think you need to use ipmasqadm with the "portfw" option. Get rid of that > > ipchains rule first. > > Is there any interaction between ipmasqadm portfw and ipchains? I've > tried it with nothing in the forward section and that doesn't seem to get > it. I've also tried it with both, but that doesn't seem to do it either. ipchains itself cannot do port forwarding. pretty much, you allow access to port 80 with ipchains, and use ipmasqadm to forward it into your network. or, upgrade to 2.4, and do it all with iptables. : ) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 10:29:04 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q References: Message-ID: <3B1E4C2F.3021E948@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > You may also need to make sure your forward (and output) rules allow > > traffic to the web server. > > Right now output is set for -P ACCEPT. For the forward rules to allow web > traffic, would I want -j MASQ or -j ACCEPT? from everywhere on port > 80? It's a little unclear where the forward rules end and the portfw > takes over. Sample forwarding rule. ipmasqadm handles the portfw command and is a seperate application from ipchains. /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L RealIP 80 -R InternalIP 80 You have to masq all outgoing traffic from internal hosts. ipchains -A forward -i exernaldevice -s internalnetwork -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j MASQ Since output is set to accept everything than that shouldn't be a problem. > > Finally, if you don't already have it, you'll also need a port forward > > command (ipmasqadm portfw) to forward traffic from port 80 on the > > external I/F of the firewall to port 80 on the internal web server. > > > > Hope that helps, > > Quite a bit -- what's not clear is where does the port forwarding take > place in the IPchain. Or does it happen outside, and if so, when / > how. I think it's not as much like an audio/video patch panel as they > lead one to believe, or am I just a little lost in the woods? Also need a kernel patch unless your using 2.2.18-2.2.19 ( may be in 2.2.17 but I can't remember). You'll need to get the application ipmasqadm. It's probably already there depending on how recent and what distro you use. HTH, sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 10:35:37 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q References: <3B1E4C2F.3021E948@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B1E4DB7.60F425A1@eetc.com> Simeon Johnston wrote: > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > You may also need to make sure your forward (and output) rules allow > > > traffic to the web server. > > > > Right now output is set for -P ACCEPT. For the forward rules to allow web > > traffic, would I want -j MASQ or -j ACCEPT? from everywhere on port > > 80? It's a little unclear where the forward rules end and the portfw > > takes over. > > Sample forwarding rule. ipmasqadm handles the portfw command and is a > seperate application from ipchains. > /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L RealIPofFirewall 80 -R InternalIP 80 > > You have to masq all outgoing traffic from internal hosts. > ipchains -A forward -i exernaldevice -s internalnetwork -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j MASQ Sorry, forgot about accepting incoming port 80 to the firewall ipchains -A input -i externaldevice -p tcp -s 0.0.0.0/0 -d RealIPofFirewall 80 -j ACCEPT > Since output is set to accept everything than that shouldn't be a problem. > > > > Finally, if you don't already have it, you'll also need a port forward > > > command (ipmasqadm portfw) to forward traffic from port 80 on the > > > external I/F of the firewall to port 80 on the internal web server. > > > > > > Hope that helps, > > > > Quite a bit -- what's not clear is where does the port forwarding take > > place in the IPchain. Or does it happen outside, and if so, when / > > how. I think it's not as much like an audio/video patch panel as they > > lead one to believe, or am I just a little lost in the woods? > > Also need a kernel patch unless your using 2.2.18-2.2.19 ( may be in 2.2.17 > but I can't remember). You'll need to get the application ipmasqadm. > It's probably already there depending on how recent and what distro you use. > > HTH, > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at luths.net Wed Jun 6 10:49:30 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991842570.3b1e510a8d9ba@www.luths.net> I'm running DSL and I get *lots* of scans. Quoting Brian : > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those requests are > asking > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of finding a > vulnerable > > NIS or NFS installation. > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's using RPC? > Is > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports strewn about that > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm worried about on > my system. > > back to the original question on security, port scans are part of > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their port scanners > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just like in the > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, are you on a > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one even looked at > my > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large amounts of IP > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been targeting > FTP, > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at that point. > Real > bright ones, they are! :-) > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in hosts.deny lets me > sleep > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP requests on my > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid kiddies. Between > these > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup script to > make > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed Jun 6 10:54:02 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome Message-ID: >>> blutgens@sistina.com 06/06/01 08:24AM >>> >Star Office sucks. It's not viable at all as an alternative to M$ Products if >you're in an environment with lots of windows users and need to exchange >documents. Very true, for that purpose, and true also for specific parts (at least in 5.1). I am not overly fond of MS Office however, but it does address the intentional "compatibility" issues (that still gets under my skin, grrr...). >If you really need to use your office apps, you'll use M$. If you're a geek, >use flat text, or PostScript, or even go so far as to fireup vmware and run >MS products from that. Looking at the pricing of Office XP, I do not know if we could upgrade to it without laying off a few people. >Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that >takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not >a desktop OS your grandma would want to use and it goes deeper than just the >lack of a decent processor. I honestly don't know if my grandma would know the difference. :-) Have a fabulous day, Troy From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 6 11:06:42 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010606110642.A21402@ringworld.org> * Troy Johnson [010606 10:55]: > >Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that > >takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not Then ignore it and let us who actually like the fact something like OpenOffice exists to beable to use it. Same with mozilla, christ people.. the bazaar exists so you can either make or use *someone elses better code* if you think its better. Why not extol your happiness that KOffice is great instead of bashing each others applicatons. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010606/8bac01f8/attachment.pgp From mike at fruitioninc.com Wed Jun 6 13:10:28 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com><991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net><120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas><20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> Message-ID: <12c001c0eeb3$f770b7d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Visual Studio has an emacs mode? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dyer-Bennet" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? > Dunno; hasn't happened to me yet. I've been running emacs since I > started 20 years ago (running the original ITS emacs, written in TECO, > on a TOPS-20 system under the "incompatibility package" which allows > ITS programs to run on TOPS-20). I've used that, JOVE, Gosling, GNU, > Epsilon, Emacs command mode in Borland's Sprint and Microsoft's Visual > Studio, and at least one other version (for TOPS-10) that I can't > remember. > > I've been able to find emacs-like editors on more classes of boxes > than vi was available for, anyway. > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Wed Jun 6 11:13:12 2001 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? References: <20010605193804.B32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B1E5698.6080802@mninter.net> What about a Park for this Installfest? There are several parks that have large pavilions with electricity. For example, south Mpls has the Minnehaha Falls, I think Round Lake has several good sized Pavilions. We would need to find one to reserve, with some cost involved. I don't know how much they cost or availability. Might be nice to consider for a few monthly meetings during the summer as well. Karl. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 11:16:24 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: <3B1E4DB7.60F425A1@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > > > You may also need to make sure your forward (and output) rules allow > > > > traffic to the web server. > > > > > > Right now output is set for -P ACCEPT. For the forward rules to allow web > > > traffic, would I want -j MASQ or -j ACCEPT? from everywhere on port > > > 80? It's a little unclear where the forward rules end and the portfw > > > takes over. > > > > Sample forwarding rule. ipmasqadm handles the portfw command and is a > > seperate application from ipchains. > > /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L RealIPofFirewall 80 -R InternalIP 80 OK -- done and done. (First thing I tried, and yes I know about deleting / flushing the chains / portfws). > > You have to masq all outgoing traffic from internal hosts. > > ipchains -A forward -i exernaldevice -s internalnetwork -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j MASQ > > Sorry, forgot about accepting incoming port 80 to the firewall > ipchains -A input -i externaldevice -p tcp -s 0.0.0.0/0 -d RealIPofFirewall 80 > -j ACCEPT Did that, doesn't help. Isn't that covered by input chain policy ACCEPT? > > Since output is set to accept everything than that shouldn't be a problem. > > Also need a kernel patch unless your using 2.2.18-2.2.19 ( may be in 2.2.17 > > but I can't remember). You'll need to get the application ipmasqadm. > > It's probably already there depending on how recent and what distro you use. I am using 2.2.18 CoyoteLinux with ipmasqadm already. I'm starting to go a little nuts here, becuase I seem to be doing everything right. And it ain't the machine, because I'm reading and writing these emails through it! Thanks for your help guys. I'm going to flush it out and start from scratch, but it's one lousy rule and one portfw! (Could it be the -y option or the TOS args? Should I tell forward to -t 0x01 0x10? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 11:18:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <3B1E5698.6080802@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Karl Bongers wrote: > What about a Park for this Installfest? There > are several parks that have large pavilions with electricity. > For example, south Mpls has the Minnehaha Falls, > I think Round Lake has several good sized Pavilions. > We would need to find one to reserve, > with some cost involved. I don't know how much they > cost or availability. > > Might be nice to consider for a few monthly meetings > during the summer as well. Power's easy, net access is harder. However, what if we got Tom Hudak's friend with the wireless ISP to bring some receiver's down for the day as a promo? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 11:19:38 2001 From: dopp at acm.cs.umn.edu (dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <3B1E5698.6080802@mninter.net>; from kbongers@mninter.net on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:13:12AM -0500 References: <20010605193804.B32717@sherohman.org> <3B1E5698.6080802@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010606111938.C52036@sorry.cs.umn.edu> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:13:12AM -0500, Karl Bongers wrote: > What about a Park for this Installfest? There > are several parks that have large pavilions with electricity. > For example, south Mpls has the Minnehaha Falls, > I think Round Lake has several good sized Pavilions. > We would need to find one to reserve, > with some cost involved. I don't know how much they > cost or availability. So what happens when the InstallFest lands on a 80+ degree day? All our machines melt down :) I think air conditioning is a requirement. Gabe -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabe Turner | X-President, SGI Origin Systems Administrator, | Assoc. for Computing Machinery U of M Supercomputing Institute for | University of Minnesohta Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation | dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu "Wanna buy a rubber walrus protector?!" - Mr. Horse in "Rubber Nipple Salesmen" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mthoren at mttcc.com Wed Jun 6 11:30:19 2001 From: mthoren at mttcc.com (Matt Thoren) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3B1E5A9B.A781C992@mttcc.com> Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > Star Office sucks. It's not viable at all as an alternative to M$ Products if > --cut-- I disagree. I have had great success with Star Office. There are versions for Solaris, Linux, AND NT. I have not had any problems so far moving docs and spread sheets between Star Office and MS. Matt. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mthoren.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 282 bytes Desc: Card for Matt Thoren Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010606/335027b7/mthoren.vcf From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jun 6 11:33:17 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628087F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I get scanned quite a bit on my DSL also, probably about 20 times a day. That's nothing compared to one of my networks, over 6000 portscans a day (some are dummy scans of course, but it's still alot). Fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:50 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Security > > > I'm running DSL and I get *lots* of scans. > > Quoting Brian : > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those requests are > > asking > > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of finding a > > vulnerable > > > NIS or NFS installation. > > > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's > using RPC? > > Is > > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports > strewn about that > > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm > worried about on > > my system. > > > > back to the original question on security, port scans are part of > > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their port scanners > > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just like in the > > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, > are you on a > > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one > even looked at > > my > > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large amounts of IP > > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been > targeting > > FTP, > > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at that point. > > Real > > bright ones, they are! :-) > > > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in hosts.deny lets me > > sleep > > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP > requests on my > > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid kiddies. Between > > these > > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup > script to > > make > > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 11:41:15 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010606111938.C52036@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: How many people come to these things? Colin From kent at structural-wood.com Wed Jun 6 11:50:54 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> <3B1E5A9B.A781C992@mttcc.com> Message-ID: <3B1E5F6E.ACA34592@structural-wood.com> Matt Thoren wrote: > > Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > > > > Star Office sucks. It's not viable at all as an alternative to M$ Products if > > --cut-- > > I disagree. I have had great success with Star Office. There are versions for > Solaris, Linux, AND NT. I have not had any problems so far moving docs and > spread sheets between Star Office and MS. > > Matt. I agree with this. When my wife gets an MS Doc thats from a later version of MS Office than hers, I generally can convert it with StarOffice. MS Office won't even read it. StarOffice works great for me, and I think it would be a far more productive world if everyone got rid of MS Office and converted. (Just needed to make an emphatic and silly [although true] statement to counter Bens bombast). *grin*, Kent From joel at luths.net Wed Jun 6 12:21:12 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628087F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628087F@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <991848072.3b1e6688ef43a@www.luths.net> Hm, 20/day is about what I get I think. I'm collecting stats, just haven't done much processing of them. Anyone logging ipchains DENYs for this (like me) might want to check out packet2sql (http://sourceforge.net/projects/packet2sql/). Pulls the ipchains lines out of log files and puts them in a SQL db. Should make analysis much easier, if I ever get around to it. Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > I get scanned quite a bit on my DSL also, probably about 20 times a day. > That's nothing compared to one of my networks, over 6000 portscans a day > (some are dummy scans of course, but it's still alot). Fun. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:50 AM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Security > > > > > > I'm running DSL and I get *lots* of scans. > > > > Quoting Brian : > > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those requests are > > > asking > > > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of finding a > > > vulnerable > > > > NIS or NFS installation. > > > > > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's > > using RPC? > > > Is > > > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports > > strewn about that > > > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm > > worried about on > > > my system. > > > > > > back to the original question on security, port scans are part of > > > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their port scanners > > > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just like in the > > > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > > > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, > > are you on a > > > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one > > even looked at > > > my > > > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large amounts of IP > > > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been > > targeting > > > FTP, > > > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at that point. > > > Real > > > bright ones, they are! :-) > > > > > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in hosts.deny lets me > > > sleep > > > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP > > requests on my > > > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid kiddies. Between > > > these > > > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup > > script to > > > make > > > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > > > > > -Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 12:14:28 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010606111938.C52036@sorry.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote: > So what happens when the InstallFest lands on a 80+ degree day? All our > machines melt down :) I think air conditioning is a requirement. Hardly -- you've got to keep the beer cold, too. Put your box in a trash bag and just set it in the cooler. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jun 6 12:41:03 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280880@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Snort (http://www.snort.org) is a good IDS system to use. It will log to a database also, and you can report on the data using ACID (http://acidlab.sourceforge.net). Apparently the latest version will support more than just MySQL, I'll probably be installing it today sometime. MySQL sucks on large databases (at least it did for me), and I'd like to switch to something else. More attack sigs are available for snort at http://www.whitehats.com/ids Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:21 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Security > > > Hm, 20/day is about what I get I think. I'm collecting stats, > just haven't done > much processing of them. Anyone logging ipchains DENYs for > this (like me) might > want to check out packet2sql > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/packet2sql/). > Pulls the ipchains lines out of log files and puts them in a > SQL db. Should > make analysis much easier, if I ever get around to it. > > Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > > > I get scanned quite a bit on my DSL also, probably about 20 > times a day. > > That's nothing compared to one of my networks, over 6000 > portscans a day > > (some are dummy scans of course, but it's still alot). Fun. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:50 AM > > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Security > > > > > > > > > I'm running DSL and I get *lots* of scans. > > > > > > Quoting Brian : > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those > requests are > > > > asking > > > > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of > finding a > > > > vulnerable > > > > > NIS or NFS installation. > > > > > > > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's > > > using RPC? > > > > Is > > > > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports > > > strewn about that > > > > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm > > > worried about on > > > > my system. > > > > > > > > back to the original question on security, port scans > are part of > > > > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their > port scanners > > > > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just > like in the > > > > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > > > > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, > > > are you on a > > > > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one > > > even looked at > > > > my > > > > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large > amounts of IP > > > > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been > > > targeting > > > > FTP, > > > > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at > that point. > > > > Real > > > > bright ones, they are! :-) > > > > > > > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in > hosts.deny lets me > > > > sleep > > > > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP > > > requests on my > > > > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid > kiddies. Between > > > > these > > > > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup > > > script to > > > > make > > > > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > > > > > > > -Brian > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 12:42:38 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q References: Message-ID: <3B1E6B8A.D5754C0C@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > Sample forwarding rule. ipmasqadm handles the portfw command and is a > > > seperate application from ipchains. > > > /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L RealIPofFirewall 80 -R InternalIP 80 > > OK -- done and done. (First thing I tried, and yes I know about deleting > / flushing the chains / portfws). > > > > You have to masq all outgoing traffic from internal hosts. > > > ipchains -A forward -i exernaldevice -s internalnetwork -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j MASQ > > > > Sorry, forgot about accepting incoming port 80 to the firewall > > ipchains -A input -i externaldevice -p tcp -s 0.0.0.0/0 -d RealIPofFirewall 80 > > -j ACCEPT > > Did that, doesn't help. Isn't that covered by input chain policy ACCEPT? should be > I am using 2.2.18 CoyoteLinux with ipmasqadm already. I'm starting to go > a little nuts here, becuase I seem to be doing everything right. And it > ain't the machine, because I'm reading and writing these emails through > it! > > Thanks for your help guys. I'm going to flush it out and start from > scratch, but it's one lousy rule and one portfw! (Could it be the -y > option or the TOS args? Should I tell forward to -t 0x01 0x10? BREATH. RELAX. KICK YOUR COMPUTER (or just a warning kick near your computer. It sensed fear...) Just for kicks (not for security.. but if security was a big problem you wouldn't be using a ACCEPT policy for input) :-) Try adding explicit ip's. I remember when I used this for the first time. It was a royal pain. What rules are you using now. You may have some conflicting rules. Is the ipmasqadm stuff *Compiled* into your kernel? Should be for CoyoteLinux. Maybe it's a module? I've never used CoyoteLinux so I'm not sure. There are LOTS of other reasons this won't work. A little more info will be helpful. sim From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jun 6 13:02:44 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280881@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Since you are using coyote, isn't this info in their FAQ or the Forums on www.coyotelinux.com? > -----Original Message----- > From: Simeon Johnston [mailto:simeonuj@eetc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:43 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q > > > > > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > > > Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > > Sample forwarding rule. ipmasqadm handles the portfw > command and is a > > > > seperate application from ipchains. > > > > /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L > RealIPofFirewall 80 -R InternalIP 80 > > > > OK -- done and done. (First thing I tried, and yes I know > about deleting > > / flushing the chains / portfws). > > > > > > You have to masq all outgoing traffic from internal hosts. > > > > ipchains -A forward -i exernaldevice -s internalnetwork > -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j MASQ > > > > > > Sorry, forgot about accepting incoming port 80 to the firewall > > > ipchains -A input -i externaldevice -p tcp -s 0.0.0.0/0 > -d RealIPofFirewall 80 > > > -j ACCEPT > > > > Did that, doesn't help. Isn't that covered by input chain > policy ACCEPT? > > should be > > > I am using 2.2.18 CoyoteLinux with ipmasqadm already. I'm > starting to go > > a little nuts here, becuase I seem to be doing everything > right. And it > > ain't the machine, because I'm reading and writing these > emails through > > it! > > > > Thanks for your help guys. I'm going to flush it out and start from > > scratch, but it's one lousy rule and one portfw! (Could it > be the -y > > option or the TOS args? Should I tell forward to -t 0x01 0x10? > > BREATH. RELAX. KICK YOUR COMPUTER (or just a warning kick > near your computer. It > sensed fear...) > Just for kicks (not for security.. but if security was a big > problem you wouldn't > be using a ACCEPT policy for input) > :-) > Try adding explicit ip's. I remember when I used this for > the first time. It was > a royal pain. > What rules are you using now. You may have some conflicting rules. > Is the ipmasqadm stuff *Compiled* into your kernel? Should > be for CoyoteLinux. > Maybe it's a module? I've never used CoyoteLinux so I'm not sure. > There are LOTS of other reasons this won't work. > A little more info will be helpful. > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 13:39:58 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Items for Sale (Indy, Alpha, Sparc ELC) Message-ID: Well, I've been accumulating hardware that I'm probably never going to get around to using, so I'd like to get some of my money back out of it. I've got the following items for sale: 1) SGI Indy Workstation This is the Indy that I picked up as a demo unit when we were looking at purchasing a couple hundred. It's a R4600 133mhz. It came with 64mb ram, but I upgraded it to 128mb. It came with a 2gb SCSI hard drive, and I added another 2gb SCSI hard drive. It came with a 8-bit framebuffer, and I upgraded it to a 24-bit. (So, it includes both the 8-bit and the 24-bit!). Also includes 2 IndyCams that I purchased for it, a 17" SGI monitor, and a SGI keyboard + mouse. Pictures are at: http://www.natecarlson.com/phpPhotoAlbum/explorer.php?folder=sgi/ Please note that the CDROM is not included. IRIX 6.5 is installed on it, but it's NOT a licensed copy, and has a couple problems (caused by me, of course!). I've got a IRIX 5.3 CD that I'll include; not sure if it works or not. Here's a hinv from the box: [natecars@avenger]$ hinv CPU: MIPS R4600 Processor Chip Revision: 2.0 FPU: MIPS R4600 Floating Point Coprocessor Revision: 2.0 1 133 MHZ IP22 Processor Main memory size: 128 Mbytes Instruction cache size: 16 Kbytes Data cache size: 16 Kbytes Integral SCSI controller 0: Version WD33C93B, revision D Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 Disk drive: unit 2 on SCSI controller 0 On-board serial ports: 2 On-board bi-directional parallel port Graphics board: Indy 24-bit Integral Ethernet: ec0, version 1 Integral ISDN: Basic Rate Interface unit 0, revision 1.0 Iris Audio Processor: version A2 revision 4.1.0 Vino video: unit 0, revision 0, IndyCam connected 2) Digital Alpha XL 300 I picked this machine up off Ebay because I wanted a box to play with. It came with no hard drive; I put a 4gb narrow SCSI drive in there. Here's the system specs: Alpha 21164 300mhz processor 64mb memory 1x4gb SCSI Hard Drive Matrox Millenium PCI Video card Integrated 10BaseT Ethernet CD-Rom and Floppy Drive included a couple available pci and isa slots I have Debian installed on it right now; will install any Linux distribution you want that has an Alpha port, or wipe the drive clean. The box functions fine; only problem with it is the face plate is missing the clips that hold it on, so if you move the box around the faceplate will fall off. I don't have pictures of it right now, but if you want some, let me know, and I'll bring the digital camera into work. :) 3) Sun SparcStation ELC I've had this thing sitting at home for a couple years.. only problem with it is the fact that the battery is dead, so you have to manually set the hardware ethernet address, etc. on bootup. This is one of the old suns that's just a 17" B&W monitor with an integrated computer. No hard drive (it's supposed to netboot, or you can hook up an external hard drive); not sure how much memory is in it. Pricing: SGI - $350 Alpha - $250 SparcStation - Free! If you think my pricing is unreasonable, feel free to make an offer. :) I'll also be much more likely to take an offer for both the SGI and the Alpha. You may also be able to twist my arm into throwing a 10/100 PCI card in with the Alpha, so it could be used as a firewall/proxy, or whatever. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jun 6 13:56:12 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <3B1E389F.9F2558EB@mninter.net> References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> <3B1E389F.9F2558EB@mninter.net> Message-ID: Shawn writes: > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Dunno; hasn't happened to me yet. I've been running emacs since I > > started 20 years ago (running the original ITS emacs, written in TECO, > > on a TOPS-20 system under the "incompatibility package" which allows > > ITS programs to run on TOPS-20). I've used that, JOVE, Gosling, GNU, > > Epsilon, Emacs command mode in Borland's Sprint and Microsoft's Visual > > Studio, and at least one other version (for TOPS-10) that I can't > > remember. > > > > I've been able to find emacs-like editors on more classes of boxes > > than vi was available for, anyway. > > > Interesting point. Was just trying to make a statement that not all > boxes have emacs on them, but from what I've been able to discern vi is > always on a box. Not a slam mind you, just a point trying to bring up. > I couldn't navigate my way through emacs if I wanted to at this time as > I prefer and spcificly use vi. I know enough vi to do minimal editing; in particular I know how to exit :-). When I first looked for a DOS editor, for example, there were several emacs-compatible choices, and at least one major independent solution (Brief), but I don't recall seeing VI. There are certainly DOS VIs now, and I may just have missed them then. vi was very common on unix, and very rare elsewhere, in the 80's, is the way I remember it. Emacs variants seemed to be ubiquitous. (Oh, the one I couldn't remember for my list was probably FINE, which stads for Fine Is Not Emacs of course). As I'm sure you all know, vi is called that because it's short for "vile". -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jun 6 13:56:56 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: <12c001c0eeb3$f770b7d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> <12c001c0eeb3$f770b7d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: "Mike Bresnahan" writes: > Visual Studio has an emacs mode? It did in 1998. Unless it was technically some other Microsoft C++ compiler package. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 6 14:02:01 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Installfest? In-Reply-To: <20010605193804.B32717@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 05:24:29PM -0500, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > The trouble with postponing is that it pushes us back toward th 4th of > > July. While I think a LUG 4th of July BBQ / Installfest somewhere would > > be really nifty -- we could sign a Declaration of Independence from > > Microsoft and have the (Boston) 10baseT-party -- it's likely to interfere > > with some folks real lives. For a second here I wasn't sure if I was subscribed to the right list. What's this about spending time in the big room? and folks with real lives? Anyway, I think a BBQ sounds like a fun deal, I don't know if I can make it but it still sounds fun. From duncan at sodatrain.com Wed Jun 6 13:14:44 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tcpserver logs In-Reply-To: <20010603113402.C11639@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: Ive recently switched to using tcpserver to help with selective relaying for my mail server... Ive noticed that i am getting LOTS of entries like the following in my message log... im not exactly sure what is going on here.... i am chaos.sodatrian.com, and know nothing about mail.chsj23.org other that it belongs to Cathedral High School in St. Cloud... Did i miss something, and am i an open relay? I dont believe so... is someone spoofing this addr, and abusing my mail server under my eyes and i dont realize it? or am i (chaos) trying to connect to mail.chsj23.org... sorry for the ignorance, i dont really have a clue about tcpserver. thx Jun 3 17:22:52 chaos smtpd: 991603372.893650 tcpserver: status: 0/40 Jun 3 17:22:56 chaos smtpd: 991603376.508229 tcpserver: status: 1/40 Jun 3 17:22:56 chaos smtpd: 991603376.509026 tcpserver: pid 14690 from 204.221.246.57 Jun 3 17:22:56 chaos smtpd: 991603376.587363 tcpserver: ok 14690 chaos.sodatrain.com:209.251.64.127:25 mail.chsj23.org:204.221.246.57::3264 Jun 3 17:22:58 chaos smtpd: 991603378.906917 tcpserver: status: 2/40 [root@chaos log]# grep chsj23.org /var/log/messages | wc 4115 45265 579601 This is from June 3rd, untill now. I added this into my hosts.deny a few days ago... ALL: mail.chsj23.org -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From chrome at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 14:21:15 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP install of Slackware? In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 01:56:12PM -0500 References: <20010605123038.E4720@real-time.com> <991766921.3b1d29893a99a@www.luths.net> <120001c0ee02$3e553250$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010605142151.A9728@minime.sistina.com> <200106052219.RAA17454@gateway2.lawson.com> <3B1E389F.9F2558EB@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20010606142115.B31430@real-time.com> > As I'm sure you all know, vi is called that because it's short for > "vile". actually, the version I heard was "thou shalt not use vi, for 'vi' is the root of 'evil'!" Am I evil?... Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 14:31:34 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Automatic post of file to webform In-Reply-To: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:17:39AM -0500 References: <991833459.3b1e2d73d5f8f@mail.fandre.com> Message-ID: <20010606143134.B32656@real-time.com> Quoting Clay Fandre (clay@fandre.com): > I'm looking for a perl script to automatically upload a file to a web form on > a remote web server running https. Anyone have any ideas? I know there are > some perl modules that will allow you to submit forms automatically, but > didn't know if they handled files or https. Plus I didn't want to reinvent the > wheel if someone already has something. > COS servlet API does it. One of the example servlets into the COS distribution does exactly this. But it's Java :-) http://www.servlets.com -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 14:34:32 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 08:24:33AM -0500 References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20010606143432.D32656@real-time.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > Everything from bullets in slides to formula discomboulation in Excell to page > break errors and tables being all out-of-whac in word. OpenOffice does these things much, much better. Snarf the latest milestone build and be impressed. :-) I especially like the fact that the default save format is xml! Now, if MS would save stuff in xml, then importing would be trivial. > Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that > takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not > a desktop OS your grandma would want to use and it goes deeper than just the > lack of a decent processor. Tell us how you really feel! :-P -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jun 6 14:36:06 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Items for Sale (Indy, Alpha, Sparc ELC) Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280884@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > SGI - $350 > Alpha - $250 > SparcStation - Free! > > If you think my pricing is unreasonable, feel free to make an > offer. :) I think you're a little high on the SparcStation. :) From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 6 14:46:32 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606143432.D32656@real-time.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > OpenOffice does these things much, much better. Snarf the latest milestone build > and be impressed. :-) OpenOffice is neat. So much less bloat, it's amazing. None of that desktop thing! > I especially like the fact that the default save format is xml! Now, if MS > would save stuff in xml, then importing would be trivial. You just gave the explenation for why Microsoft will never, ever do that (; > > Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that > Tell us how you really feel! :-P I was gonna say that (: -Yaron -- From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 14:50:45 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606110642.A21402@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 11:06:42AM -0500 References: <20010606110642.A21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010606145045.H32656@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > Same with mozilla, christ people.. the bazaar exists so you can either > make or use *someone elses better code* if you think its better. Why > not extol your happiness that KOffice is great instead of bashing each > others applicatons. We have Idiot Ben and now Angry Scott. :-P Anymore nicknames I need to hand-out? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From zibby at ringworld.org Wed Jun 6 15:32:40 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606145045.H32656@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > We have Idiot Ben and now Angry Scott. :-P > > Anymore nicknames I need to hand-out? Fuut in muoot Zeebby. Bork Bork Bork! | Undrev S. Zbeekooski | Hume-a: 763.591.0977 | | http://vvv.reengvurld.oorg | Vurk: 763.428.9119 | | http://vvv.ituoothuoose-a.cum | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Seencleir: "Nu buum?" Gereebeldi: "Nu buum." | | Ifunufa: "Nu buum tudey. Buum tumurroo. | | Elveys a buum tumurroo." | Fun with chef filter....sorry! :) From zibby at ringworld.org Wed Jun 6 15:36:50 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2 over KDE or Gnome In-Reply-To: <20010606143432.D32656@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > I especially like the fact that the default save format is xml! Now, if MS > would save stuff in xml, then importing would be trivial. Nah, they would find a way to do something totally evil like a biniary stream into XML so even though it is .xml you need MS Word if you want to see the biniary streamed objects. It's MS, they will find a way to comply with the standard (for check box marketing) but still be totally dependent on their software. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From dhanson2 at uswest.net Wed Jun 6 15:35:36 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Items for Sale (Indy, Alpha, Sparc ELC) References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280884@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <016f01c0eec8$51f6c2d0$eaaf7a81@doug> Any details on the Sparc? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austad, Jay" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:36 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: Items for Sale (Indy, Alpha, Sparc ELC) > > SGI - $350 > > Alpha - $250 > > SparcStation - Free! > > > > If you think my pricing is unreasonable, feel free to make an > > offer. :) > > I think you're a little high on the SparcStation. :) > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 16:02:50 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: More Items for Sale (Capture Board, Hub, SDSL Router) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All of the earlier is now sold. :) Also forgot about a couple other items I have sitting around (sheesh, when you start talking to people, you figure out all sorts of stuff!): - Pinnacle Systems Studio DC10plus Video Capture Board Untested, I bought it and then said "why the heck did I buy this?" Used, but should work fine. If not, full money-back guarantee, of course. Linux drivers are available on the 'net; will also work with 95/98, but apparently NOT 2000. Asking $50. - NetGear 4-port 10/100 autosensing hub, DS104 Works fine; I was using it for 6 months or so to connect my 10/100 network and the rest of the 10mbit hubs at home, but we replaced all the 10mbit with 10/100, so don't need it anymore. Asking $35. - FlowPoint 2200-10 SDSL Router Again, works fine; when Onvoy stopped offering DSL over Covad lines, we had to stop using this. Make sure your ISP requires a 2200-10 before buying this.. it varies. Asking $50. - Digi 24-port 10mbit hub This is one the hubs that was replaced above. :) 24 10baseT ports. Internal power supply, etc. Asking $30. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 16:04:17 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Solaris on an Indigo -- Not what you think :-) Message-ID: <3B1E9AB5.39A6A3A3@eetc.com> My company has an Indigo E-print 1000+. One of the only ones still working in the world (I'm not kidding). It's a printer. One of the drives died so we got a new one - not from Indigo because they wanted a couple grand for a $80 drive. I'm trying to format it and mount it where it was before but I have no idea where to start. I tried format and checked out all the drives but they all seemed to be formatted. Do I need to make a filesystem on it now? Where are some good howto's/manuals for Solaris 5.4? Should I just wait and let the guy from Indigo do it? I don't think I'll mess anything up but the guy's gone for a while and we may need to use the printer immediately. No man pages (the directory was wiped or not even installed) and I have never used solaris. Identifies itself as SunOS 5.4 during bootup and Solaris 5.4 with update 6 in Open Windows. I have no idea what kind of Sun machine is running this printer but that's the OS. Any help or pointers would appreciated. sim From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 6 16:07:00 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Items for Sale (Indy, Alpha, Sparc ELC) In-Reply-To: <016f01c0eec8$51f6c2d0$eaaf7a81@doug> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Doug Hanson wrote: > Any details on the Sparc? I'll post details when I get home.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 6 16:38:01 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris on an Indigo -- Not what you think :-) References: <3B1E9AB5.39A6A3A3@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B1EA29B.249ECEE2@eetc.com> Sorry about not labeling this off topic. sim From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 17:30:38 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: Thanks -- was RE: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280881@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Since you are using coyote, isn't this info in their FAQ or the Forums on > www.coyotelinux.com? Actually, their docs are fairly formless, and not really very good, IMO. I did read them all, but it turns out that there was some legacy IPChains stuff running on the server box. Turns out that with everyone's help I've probably solved this problem half a dozen different ways over the course of the day! (I don't quite have it, but at least the problem is under control.) Thanks to everyone who pitched in and also to everyone who put up with a burst of list traffic. Maybe I'll get to thank some of you at the next beer meeting. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jun 6 18:17:32 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Voice modems Message-ID: <20010606181732.A9056@sherohman.org> I've decided that the time has finally come for me to teach one of my home boxen to be an answering machine (and then some, of course). What's a good, linux-friendly modem to use for this sort of thing? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jun 6 19:25:11 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have A Name Yet References: Message-ID: <3B1EC9E7.2B7844E8@haxxed.com> Alright, trying to get my ass in gear on this thing. For starters it could use a cute name... For now you can find it at http://www.haxxed.com/hardware/ From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Wed Jun 6 19:24:26 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280880@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: So how do you folks feel about using an IDS like snort with Guardian. The IDS detects the attack, another tool auto blocks that IP from the host under attack. For a teeny site I don't think I would have to worry about getting reverse DDoSed, or do I? Thoughts? Josh ___SIG___ On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Snort (http://www.snort.org) is a good IDS system to use. It will log to a > database also, and you can report on the data using ACID > (http://acidlab.sourceforge.net). Apparently the latest version will > support more than just MySQL, I'll probably be installing it today sometime. > MySQL sucks on large databases (at least it did for me), and I'd like to > switch to something else. More attack sigs are available for snort at > http://www.whitehats.com/ids > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:21 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Security > > > > > > Hm, 20/day is about what I get I think. I'm collecting stats, > > just haven't done > > much processing of them. Anyone logging ipchains DENYs for > > this (like me) might > > want to check out packet2sql > > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/packet2sql/). > > Pulls the ipchains lines out of log files and puts them in a > > SQL db. Should > > make analysis much easier, if I ever get around to it. > > > > Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > > > > > I get scanned quite a bit on my DSL also, probably about 20 > > times a day. > > > That's nothing compared to one of my networks, over 6000 > > portscans a day > > > (some are dummy scans of course, but it's still alot). Fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:50 AM > > > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Security > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm running DSL and I get *lots* of scans. > > > > > > > > Quoting Brian : > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those > > requests are > > > > > asking > > > > > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of > > finding a > > > > > vulnerable > > > > > > NIS or NFS installation. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's > > > > using RPC? > > > > > Is > > > > > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports > > > > strewn about that > > > > > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm > > > > worried about on > > > > > my system. > > > > > > > > > > back to the original question on security, port scans > > are part of > > > > > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their > > port scanners > > > > > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just > > like in the > > > > > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > > > > > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, > > > > are you on a > > > > > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one > > > > even looked at > > > > > my > > > > > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large > > amounts of IP > > > > > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been > > > > targeting > > > > > FTP, > > > > > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at > > that point. > > > > > Real > > > > > bright ones, they are! :-) > > > > > > > > > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in > > hosts.deny lets me > > > > > sleep > > > > > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP > > > > requests on my > > > > > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid > > kiddies. Between > > > > > these > > > > > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup > > > > script to > > > > > make > > > > > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > > > > > > > > > -Brian > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Wed Jun 6 19:57:30 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2, KDE, Gnome OT Visio References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3B1ED17A.5060002@mn.rr.com> Seems like I am not the only one that the crappy weather of late is getting to. Speaking of MS apps, anyone had any luck getting Visio 2000 running with VMWare, WINE or Win4Lin? I need to be able to run Visio for work and booting into Windows just seems to suck what little intelligence I have left right out my head. My mind is like a FIFO as Linux goes in, Windows goes out. SG, O.S.D. Ben Lutgens wrote: > Star Office sucks. > > Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that > takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not > a desktop OS your grandma would want to use and it goes deeper than just the > lack of a decent processor. > > > -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Jun 6 20:42:59 2001 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have A Name Yet In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010606203718.02c25d30@mail.eleetomatic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Alright, trying to get my ass in gear on this thing. For starters it > could use a cute name... I'll probably be shot for this, but how about "The TCLUG Trader?" *ducks reflexively* On a side note, is this strictly for hardware? How about services? Trade secondary DNS for a shell, et cetera. Just a thought. Maybe a bad one. Jima From wilson at visi.com Wed Jun 6 21:11:07 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grip and SCSI emulation Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm using SCSI emulation to enable CD-burning with my Plextor IDE burner. It works fine. Unfortunately, I'm now unable to rip tracks off a CD for subsequent encoding into MP3/Ogg. Running grip with the -v option produces: Calling CDPRip Unable to open cdrom drive; -v will give more information. The result is that grip goes throught the CD, ripping each track in about 2 sec. without really doing anything. FYI, /dev/cdrom -> /dev/sr0 which in turn -> scd0. Permissions on scd0 are 666. Any hints on getting this fixed up? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed Jun 6 21:14:21 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beermeeting! Message-ID: Tomorrow June 7th, we'll be returning to Barley John's Brewpub in New Brighton. Hopefully it won't be raining so we can sit outside! Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there, ~jacque From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 6 21:22:57 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grip and SCSI emulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010606212257.748390da.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Timothy Wilson wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I'm using SCSI emulation to enable CD-burning with my Plextor IDE > burner. It works fine. Unfortunately, I'm now unable to rip tracks off a > CD for subsequent encoding into MP3/Ogg. Running grip with the -v option > produces: [snip] > Any hints on getting this fixed up? You need the scsi generic driver (sg.o) to be loaded and have the correct permissions on /dev/sg0 (or whatever the proper number is). I ran into this problem the other day. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If ignorance is bliss, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ then why aren't more \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) people happy? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010606/500a6570/attachment.pgp From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed Jun 6 21:14:21 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beermeeting! Message-ID: Tomorrow June 7th, we'll be returning to Barley John's Brewpub in New Brighton. Hopefully it won't be raining so we can sit outside! Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there, ~jacque _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From wilson at visi.com Wed Jun 6 22:10:45 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grip and SCSI emulation In-Reply-To: <20010606212257.748390da.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > You need the scsi generic driver (sg.o) to be loaded and have the correct > permissions on /dev/sg0 (or whatever the proper number is). I ran into > this problem the other day. Aha! I had the SCSI generic driver, but /dev/sg0 was 600. All's well now. Thanks Mike. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 6 23:34:39 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have A Name Yet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Jima wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Alright, trying to get my ass in gear on this thing. For starters it > > could use a cute name... > > I'll probably be shot for this, but how about "The TCLUG Trader?" *ducks > reflexively* well, it DOES appear that THTFTTDHANY.org is available :-) if you say that fast, you can kinda here it, like someone who has their mouth propped open at the dentist,,,, "TCLUG trader" sounds cool, but wasn't there some discussion about whether this is a TCLUG thing or a couple geeks with an idea thing or something? Maybe "TC geek trader". No, we don't trade actual geeks, just geeky STUFF. TC hardware connection? I kinda like Jima's idea about services too, maybe a page for hardware and a page for services? Just some random thoughts before I scuttle off to bed. -Brian From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jun 6 23:58:36 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet References: Message-ID: <3B1F09FC.A4305910@haxxed.com> > "TCLUG trader" sounds cool, but wasn't there some discussion about whether > this is a TCLUG thing or a couple geeks with an idea thing or > something? Maybe "TC geek trader". No, we don't trade actual geeks, > just geeky STUFF. TC hardware connection? I kinda like Jima's idea about > services too, maybe a page for hardware and a page for services? Just > some random thoughts before I scuttle off to bed. Thats another thing I'll need ideas on when I get to it. What categorys we're going to want. But I figure initially I'll rely on word search. Hmmm. But for starters I gotta start laying out the DB. Where did I put that half written session manager... From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 7 00:08:38 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet In-Reply-To: <3B1F09FC.A4305910@haxxed.com> Message-ID: How about the TCLUG Geek's Market, like the farmer's market but Geeky. That could cover goods and services. ~j > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 11:59 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have > AName Yet > > > > "TCLUG trader" sounds cool, but wasn't there some discussion > about whether > > this is a TCLUG thing or a couple geeks with an idea thing or > > something? Maybe "TC geek trader". No, we don't trade actual geeks, > > just geeky STUFF. TC hardware connection? I kinda like Jima's > idea about > > services too, maybe a page for hardware and a page for services? Just > > some random thoughts before I scuttle off to bed. > > Thats another thing I'll need ideas on when I get to it. What categorys > we're going to want. But I figure initially I'll rely on word search. > > Hmmm. But for starters I gotta start laying out the DB. Where did I put > that half written session manager... > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jun 7 00:35:48 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2, KDE, Gnome OT Visio In-Reply-To: <3B1ED17A.5060002@mn.rr.com>; from sgrobe@mn.rr.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:57:30PM -0500 References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> <3B1ED17A.5060002@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20010607003548.A3127@minime.sistina.com> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:57:30PM -0500, Steve wrote: >Seems like I am not the only one that the crappy weather of late is getting to. > >Speaking of MS apps, anyone had any luck getting Visio 2000 running with VMWare, >WINE or Win4Lin? I need to be able to run Visio for work and booting into >Windows just seems to suck what little intelligence I have left right out my head. > >My mind is like a FIFO as Linux goes in, Windows goes out. Mine used to be. Then i contemplated supporting all those non-technichal people trying to run linux for the first time at work. Personally I'd rather the business people were productive at makeing Sistina Successful and rich, rather than having the have the mount, cp, and rm commands explained to them > >SG, O.S.D. > >Ben Lutgens wrote: > > >> Star Office sucks. >> >> Star Office needs to go away. It's a huge bloated useless pile of crap that >> takes up way to much space on harddrives. It's like a big teaser. Linux is not >> a desktop OS your grandma would want to use and it goes deeper than just the >> lack of a decent processor. >> >> >> > > >-- > >Yadda, yadda, yadda > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. MIS Geek / Gentoo Developer http://dolly-llama.org | http://www.gentoo.org/ | http://sistina.com/ Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010607/1869fcec/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 7 00:54:29 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628088C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> >For a teeny site I don't think I would have to worry about >getting reverse DDoSed, or do I? You do now that the whole list knows you run Guardian. :) Just kidding. Actually, if you do use guardian, set it up so it will only block shady things done through TCP. That way, you can be fairly sure that the attacker IP is not spoofed. TCP connect() scans are a good one to block on, and most format string vulnerabilities (just make sure it's not one that has a good chance of being a false positive). I don't use anything like Guardian, I just make sure that all of my stuff is patched for the vulnerabilities that snort looks for. As far as I'm concerned, I just get to collect more data for evidence by not blocking anything. :) And trust me, evidence comes in very handy, especially to Mr. FBI. From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Jun 7 07:12:35 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet References: Message-ID: <3B1F6FB3.6490002B@structural-wood.com> Brian wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Jima wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > > Alright, trying to get my ass in gear on this thing. For starters it > > > could use a cute name... > > > > I'll probably be shot for this, but how about "The TCLUG Trader?" *ducks > > reflexively* > > well, it DOES appear that THTFTTDHANY.org is available :-) if you say > that fast, you can kinda here it, like someone who has their mouth propped > open at the dentist,,,, > > "TCLUG trader" sounds cool, but wasn't there some discussion about whether > this is a TCLUG thing or a couple geeks with an idea thing or > something? Maybe "TC geek trader". No, we don't trade actual geeks, > just geeky STUFF. TC hardware connection? I kinda like Jima's idea about > services too, maybe a page for hardware and a page for services? Just > some random thoughts before I scuttle off to bed. > > -Brian > GeekStuff.org Maybe TCGeekStuff.org From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 7 08:25:21 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssh on debian Message-ID: <20010607082520.A5570@beaver.iucha.org> Hello, I have installed last night a box with Debian. I have looked all places in "dselect" or on ftp.debian.org for openssh 2.9 . I have found only ssh-1.xxx Do you have any idea what should I do to get the latest version of ssh for debian? Thank you, florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 7 08:29:36 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssh on debian In-Reply-To: <20010607082520.A5570@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: You could browse on over to openssh.org and get it directly. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Hello, > > I have installed last night a box with Debian. I have looked all places in > "dselect" or on ftp.debian.org for openssh 2.9 . > > I have found only ssh-1.xxx > > Do you have any idea what should I do to get the latest version of ssh for > debian? > > Thank you, > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drake at lemongecko.myip.org Thu Jun 7 07:28:24 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.myip.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssh on debian In-Reply-To: <20010607082520.A5570@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Do you have any idea what should I do to get the latest version of ssh for > debian? Compile it yourself. Use the source, Luke. I have openssh 2.5.2p2-2.1 and I run woody. The package name looks something like "ssh 1:2.5.2blahblahblah". The colon is a slight hack to make version numbers work the way the Debian people want them to. (I may be totally wrong about that) That version supports SSH protocol 2 and has sftp and all that. No need for the bleeding edge openssh (at least, not for me). Dan > > Thank you, > florin > > From ben at nerp.net Thu Jun 7 08:37:13 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssh on debian In-Reply-To: <20010607082520.A5570@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free as root: apt-get update apt-get install ssh done :) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Hello, > > I have installed last night a box with Debian. I have looked all places in > "dselect" or on ftp.debian.org for openssh 2.9 . > > I have found only ssh-1.xxx > > Do you have any idea what should I do to get the latest version of ssh for > debian? > > Thank you, > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOx+DistpDhsSpvgtAQH1yQP+KBc2N+PBmwrmrO7b7sQcMsJToGdBrl05 qgUiKP78l5Ljl6LzR2kb/VE9hXxW9rX9T9iDz3eKnnl5ekdtupHP7xu9lwEW3ZXC EFXKCUYkcXuXBke7pj/A7mxVjFYRQGAd4Vir84O6Rq5UCMhGH75Pa4SIJItcb9j9 akU+i/MmCgg= =qf0/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From drake at lemongecko.myip.org Thu Jun 7 07:37:52 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.myip.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > All's well now. Unfortunately, not for me! I can rip CDs no problem, but cdrecord refuses to work. I have the SCSI emulation modules loaded, but when I do "cdrecord -scanbus" (as root) I get Cdrecord 1.10a18 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 J?rg Schilling cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root. Argh! I'm trying "cdrecord -scanbus"! And I *am* root! I must be missing something stupid. I'm driving out to New York next week and I *need* to burn some CDs or I will go insane (I'm not l337 enough to have an mp3 player in my car)! Dan BTW, I have the following (relevant) modules loaded: isofs 18064 0 (autoclean) sd_mod 10016 0 (unused) sg 20960 0 (unused) sr_mod 12768 0 (unused) ide-scsi 7712 0 ide-cd 26016 0 cdrom 27008 0 [sr_mod ide-cd] scsi_mod 51264 4 [sd_mod sg sr_mod ide-scsi] From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 7 08:46:25 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628088C@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Hmmm ok. First off let me mention the machine with snort+Guardian is at a different ISP so you would have to know where I'm connecting from to get my mail. I'd be fascinated if that sort of thing is possible without cracking the box the shell account is from. I'll just assume that the shell machine keeps some sort of record of where I come from. And actually, over an evening's sleep I've decided to not both with snort since I expect the firewalling software+ruleset is pretty darn good. There is a portsentry daemon taking requests on ftp,telnet,portmap, and netbios-*. It just watches for connect()s and creates routing rules to dump those folks off into lo1. I guess I just figure that snort+something will just take up cpu time that is better spent webserving. (mind you, I expose ssh,sftp,http,https,smtp&submission). I guess I figure that there are probably plenty of other hosts which are plenty more appealing. My one real vunerability would probably be from a cgi program but I'm pretty darn sure there's no simple way to crack that (it's a voter registration+political campaign info db) since I wrote it myself and made sure to protect it. Am I just being overly naiive or is this reasonable? I'm very new to internet security so what I know is gleaned from going through the recommended reading lists. Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > >For a teeny site I don't think I would have to worry about > >getting reverse DDoSed, or do I? > > You do now that the whole list knows you run Guardian. :) Just kidding. > Actually, if you do use guardian, set it up so it will only block shady > things done through TCP. That way, you can be fairly sure that the attacker > IP is not spoofed. TCP connect() scans are a good one to block on, and most > format string vulnerabilities (just make sure it's not one that has a good > chance of being a false positive). > > I don't use anything like Guardian, I just make sure that all of my stuff is > patched for the vulnerabilities that snort looks for. As far as I'm > concerned, I just get to collect more data for evidence by not blocking > anything. :) And trust me, evidence comes in very handy, especially to Mr. > FBI. > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 7 08:53:08 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628088E@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Looks like your burner is maybe not showing up as a scsi burner. It looks like you have the ide-cd module loaded. I think the burner will use the ATAPI stuff by default if it's there. When I compile my kernels to do scsi emulation, I don't even compile in ATAPI cdrom support at all. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Drake [mailto:drake@lemongecko.myip.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 7:38 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation > > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > > All's well now. > > Unfortunately, not for me! > > I can rip CDs no problem, but cdrecord refuses to work. I > have the SCSI > emulation modules loaded, but when I do "cdrecord -scanbus" > (as root) I > get > > Cdrecord 1.10a18 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 J?rg > Schilling > cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. > cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make > sure you are > root. > > Argh! I'm trying "cdrecord -scanbus"! And I *am* root! > > I must be missing something stupid. > > I'm driving out to New York next week and I *need* to burn > some CDs or I > will go insane (I'm not l337 enough to have an mp3 player in my car)! > > Dan > > > > BTW, I have the following (relevant) modules loaded: > > isofs 18064 0 (autoclean) > sd_mod 10016 0 (unused) > sg 20960 0 (unused) > sr_mod 12768 0 (unused) > ide-scsi 7712 0 > ide-cd 26016 0 > cdrom 27008 0 [sr_mod ide-cd] > scsi_mod 51264 4 [sd_mod sg sr_mod ide-scsi] > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 7 09:30:20 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssh on debian In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:37:13AM -0500 References: <20010607082520.A5570@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010607093020.A15917@beaver.iucha.org> That did the trick, thank you. I saw something like /^ssh-1/ and I was thinking maybe debian packages some old version of ssh. Of course I have searched for [Oo]pen(SSH|ssh). Oh well, "every village with it's custom".. florin On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:37:13AM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > > add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list > > deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free > > as root: > apt-get update > apt-get install ssh > > done :) > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > I have installed last night a box with Debian. I have looked all places in > > "dselect" or on ftp.debian.org for openssh 2.9 . > > > > I have found only ssh-1.xxx > > > > Do you have any idea what should I do to get the latest version of ssh for > > debian? -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 7 09:43:30 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation Message-ID: The CD-Writing howto: http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/CD-Writing-HOWTO.html explains how a lilo "append" statement is added to stop the CDRW drive from associating with the 'ide-cd' module and instead use 'ide-scsi' (if 'ide-cd' is compiled into the kernel). Otherwise your SCSI emulation modules will load but the CDRW doesn't use them. If 'ide-cd' loads as a module you will have to modify "/etc/conf.modules" (or something similar) and follow the HOWTO directions. This mostly worked for me, but it was using a stock redhat 6.2 kernel and one of the modules wouldn't load automatically for me (so I did it in "/etc/rc.d/rc.local" until I have time to bang on it some more, or better yet compile a custom kernel). HTH, Troy >>> austad@marketwatch.com 06/07/01 08:53AM >>> Looks like your burner is maybe not showing up as a scsi burner. It looks like you have the ide-cd module loaded. I think the burner will use the ATAPI stuff by default if it's there. When I compile my kernels to do scsi emulation, I don't even compile in ATAPI cdrom support at all. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Drake [mailto:drake@lemongecko.myip.org] > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 7:38 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation > > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > > All's well now. > > Unfortunately, not for me! > > I can rip CDs no problem, but cdrecord refuses to work. I > have the SCSI > emulation modules loaded, but when I do "cdrecord -scanbus" > (as root) I > get > > Cdrecord 1.10a18 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 J?rg > Schilling > cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. > cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make > sure you are > root. > > Argh! I'm trying "cdrecord -scanbus"! And I *am* root! > > I must be missing something stupid. > > I'm driving out to New York next week and I *need* to burn > some CDs or I > will go insane (I'm not l337 enough to have an mp3 player in my car)! > > Dan > > > > BTW, I have the following (relevant) modules loaded: > > isofs 18064 0 (autoclean) > sd_mod 10016 0 (unused) > sg 20960 0 (unused) > sr_mod 12768 0 (unused) > ide-scsi 7712 0 > ide-cd 26016 0 > cdrom 27008 0 [sr_mod ide-cd] > scsi_mod 51264 4 [sd_mod sg sr_mod ide-scsi] > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Thu Jun 7 10:01:20 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have A Name Yet In-Reply-To: <3B1EC9E7.2B7844E8@haxxed.com>; from seg@haxxed.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:25:11PM -0500 References: <3B1EC9E7.2B7844E8@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010607100120.A28195@iaxs.net> On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:25:11PM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Alright, trying to get my ass in gear on this thing. For starters it > could use a cute name... > > For now you can find it at http://www.haxxed.com/hardware/ I can't get this to work as of 9:45AM on Thursday - anyone else having problems with it? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 10:03:21 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet In-Reply-To: <20010607100120.A28195@iaxs.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:25:11PM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Alright, trying to get my ass in gear on this thing. For starters it > > could use a cute name... > > > > For now you can find it at http://www.haxxed.com/hardware/ > > I can't get this to work as of 9:45AM on Thursday - anyone else having > problems with it? It doesn't show up here either. For another name suggestion, how about putersmith.org? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From joel at luths.net Thu Jun 7 10:31:06 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280880@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280880@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <991927866.3b1f9e3a7ef5b@www.luths.net> I forgot about snort. Downloaded it a while ago, haven't installed it. Much on the to-do list. Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > Snort (http://www.snort.org) is a good IDS system to use. It will log > to a > database also, and you can report on the data using ACID > (http://acidlab.sourceforge.net). Apparently the latest version will > support more than just MySQL, I'll probably be installing it today > sometime. > MySQL sucks on large databases (at least it did for me), and I'd like to > switch to something else. More attack sigs are available for snort at > http://www.whitehats.com/ids > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:21 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Security > > > > > > Hm, 20/day is about what I get I think. I'm collecting stats, > > just haven't done > > much processing of them. Anyone logging ipchains DENYs for > > this (like me) might > > want to check out packet2sql > > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/packet2sql/). > > Pulls the ipchains lines out of log files and puts them in a > > SQL db. Should > > make analysis much easier, if I ever get around to it. > > > > Quoting "Austad, Jay" : > > > > > I get scanned quite a bit on my DSL also, probably about 20 > > times a day. > > > That's nothing compared to one of my networks, over 6000 > > portscans a day > > > (some are dummy scans of course, but it's still alot). Fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: joel@luths.net [mailto:joel@luths.net] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:50 AM > > > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Security > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm running DSL and I get *lots* of scans. > > > > > > > > Quoting Brian : > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. They're talking to portmap, not telnetd. Those > > requests are > > > > > asking > > > > > > about available RPC services, most likely in hopes of > > finding a > > > > > vulnerable > > > > > > NIS or NFS installation. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I've heard of exploits on RPC, now I'm curious. What's > > > > using RPC? > > > > > Is > > > > > it just NIS and NFS? I've heard of tons of RPC ports > > > > strewn about that > > > > > can be exploited, it's the only remaining port that I'm > > > > worried about on > > > > > my system. > > > > > > > > > > back to the original question on security, port scans > > are part of > > > > > life. Kiddies all over the internet like to run their > > port scanners > > > > > because they're HACKERS and they're unstoppable! just > > like in the > > > > > movie! *rolls eyes* Just make sure you aren't running anything > > > > > unnecessary, like xfs, nis, nfs, etc. Out of curiosity, > > > > are you on a > > > > > cable modem? I've noticed that when I was on DSL no one > > > > even looked at > > > > > my > > > > > box but on cable in the last week I've collected large > > amounts of IP > > > > > addresses probing away at my firewall. They've mainly been > > > > targeting > > > > > FTP, > > > > > which is odd, since I hadn't had ftpd up and running at > > that point. > > > > > Real > > > > > bright ones, they are! :-) > > > > > > > > > > tcp wrappers do a pretty good job, an ALL:ALL in > > hosts.deny lets me > > > > > sleep > > > > > at night anyway. I also have a policy of denying ICMP > > > > requests on my > > > > > outside interface just to thwart the really stupid > > kiddies. Between > > > > > these > > > > > two I feel relatively secure. Then just check your startup > > > > script to > > > > > make > > > > > sure you aren't running anything you don't need to be. > > > > > > > > > > -Brian > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 7 11:27:41 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > > I can't get this to work as of 9:45AM on Thursday - anyone else having > > problems with it? Weird... it worked last night, now this morning it's gone. From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 7 11:58:34 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA serial port Message-ID: I have an older laptop that I need to set up as a single use type workstation. Problem: I need 2 serial ports, this laptop's got 1. A docking station really isn't an answer here, has anyone ever heard of a PCMCIA card that will add a serial port? If so, I need to find one. Thanks! -Brian From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu Jun 7 12:26:23 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Solaris on an Indigo -- Figured it out. References: <3B1E9AB5.39A6A3A3@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B1FB927.BAF91F7B@eetc.com> Never mind. I got it working after calling one of the reps at Indigo. Very simple apparently. They have a automatic script and everything is was very easy. I also discovered I don't really like Solaris 5.4 after a very breaf encounter. :-) I wonder if it would void the contract if I installed Linux. ;-) sim Simeon Johnston wrote: > My company has an Indigo E-print 1000+. One of the only ones still > working in the world (I'm not kidding). It's a printer. > One of the drives died so we got a new one - not from Indigo because > they wanted a couple grand for a $80 drive. I'm trying to format it and > mount it where it was before but I have no idea where to start. > I tried format and checked out all the drives but they all seemed to be > formatted. Do I need to make a filesystem on it now? Where are some > good howto's/manuals for Solaris 5.4? > Should I just wait and let the guy from Indigo do it? I don't think > I'll mess anything up but the guy's gone for a while and we may need to > use the printer immediately. > No man pages (the directory was wiped or not even installed) and I have > never used solaris. > Identifies itself as SunOS 5.4 during bootup and Solaris 5.4 with update > 6 in Open Windows. I have no idea what kind of Sun machine is running > this printer but that's the OS. > Any help or pointers would appreciated. > > sim From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jun 7 12:25:32 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010607122532.2cc563c9.blayer@qwest.net> Hi, I can tell you for a fact that your IDE-SCSI emulation is not working.. read your dmesg and I'm sure that you will see that your CD-RW is being enumerated as a simple /dev/hd? (IDE) device, not a SCSI device. On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:37:52 -0400 (EDT) "Dan Drake" wrote: > > BTW, I have the following (relevant) modules loaded: > > isofs 18064 0 (autoclean) > sd_mod 10016 0 (unused) > sg 20960 0 (unused) > sr_mod 12768 0 (unused) > ide-scsi 7712 0 > ide-cd 26016 0 > cdrom 27008 0 [sr_mod ide-cd] > scsi_mod 51264 4 [sd_mod sg sr_mod ide-scsi] I"m not aware that IDE-SCSI emulation works properly when loaded as a module. In all of my CD burning applications, I have both IDE-SCSI emulation and SCSI Generic support built into the kernel. A kernel boot parameter is added to the /etc/lilo.conf which tells the ide-cdrom driver to ignore the cdrom drive, so that the IDE-SCSI emulation can pick it up & enumerate it as a SCSI device. This boot parameter can also me entered manually at the LILO boot: prompt, but there is really no sense in doing this. IDE-SCSI emulation works perfectly, and I have both of my cdrom drives running as SCSI 100% of the time, just to make things more consistent. Please rebuilt your kernel with 'Y' to SCSI Generic and 'Y' to IDE-SCSI emulation, add the appropriate lies to your /etc/lilo.conf, and I think your problems will be solved, The read-only cdrom drive is /dev/hdc and the CD-RW drive is /dev/hdd. Here is a snip from my /etc/lilo.config file that shows the form of the boot parameters: # Production kernel configuration begins image = /vmlinuz root = /dev/hde2 label = Linux append = "hdc=ide-scsi hdd=ide-scsi" #SCSI emulation support. read-only # Production kernel configuration ends And here is a snip from my dmesg, where you can see the CD drives being enumerated as SCSI devices: SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00 scsi0 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices Vendor: E-IDE Model: CD-ROM 36X/AKU Rev: U21I Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Vendor: YAMAHA Model: CRW2100E Rev: 1.0K Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr1 at scsi0, channel 0, id 1, lun 0 sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 0x/36x cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.12 sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 40x/40x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray Finally, here is the output of my cdrecord -scanbus: bash-2.04$ cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord 1.9 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2000 J?rg Schilling Linux sg driver version: 3.1.17 Using libscg version 'schily-0.1' scsibus0: cdrecord: Warning: controller returns wrong size for CD capabilities page. 0,0,0 0) 'E-IDE ' 'CD-ROM 36X/AKU ' 'U21I' Removable CD-ROM 0,1,0 1) 'YAMAHA ' 'CRW2100E ' '1.0K' Removable CD-ROM 0,2,0 2) * 0,3,0 3) * 0,4,0 4) * 0,5,0 5) * 0,6,0 6) * 0,7,0 7) * bash-2.04$ Until you see these kind of boot messages, cdrecord -scanbus will always come up empty-handed, and burning CD-RW will be impossible. I hope this helps. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 12:42:19 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI 2 cables Message-ID: Any particular favorite local suppliers for the above (the micro 50-pin connectors)? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 7 12:53:25 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA serial port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > I have an older laptop that I need to set up as a single use type > workstation. Problem: I need 2 serial ports, this laptop's got 1. A > docking station really isn't an answer here, has anyone ever heard of a > PCMCIA card that will add a serial port? If so, I need to find > one. Thanks! PCMCIA USB card and a USB<-> serial dongle. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 7 12:54:04 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI 2 cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Any particular favorite local suppliers for the above (the micro 50-pin > connectors)? My boxes of various junk might have a few at home. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 12:59:41 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA serial port In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:58:34AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010607125941.A21949@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:58:34AM -0500, Brian wrote: > I have an older laptop that I need to set up as a single use type > workstation. Problem: I need 2 serial ports, this laptop's got 1. A > docking station really isn't an answer here, has anyone ever heard of a > PCMCIA card that will add a serial port? If so, I need to find > one. Thanks! Yes, they exist - though I've never used one. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&query=serial+pcmcia -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 7 13:52:40 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628089E@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=1&catid=40&threadid=457398 $500 for a Gateway PIII 933 w/ 128MB ram and a 9GB SCSI drive. Make sure you choose the $400 off option, and lower the support to 1 year to get that price. Not too shabby. Jay From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 14:43:50 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mounting screws Message-ID: Does someone know what the spec are for typical drive mounting screws? I mean like #6-40 X 1/4. I don't have a thread gauge handy. Thanks. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 7 15:04:03 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ntpd size Message-ID: <20010607150403.A4474@beaver.iucha.org> While I was waiting for something to compile I ran a top on my new debian box and something caught my attention: root 256 0.0 5.0 3928 3920 ? SL 13:44 0:01 /usr/sbin/ntpd root 258 0.0 5.0 3928 3920 ? SL 13:44 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd root 260 0.0 5.0 3928 3920 ? SL 13:44 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd ^^^^ ^^^^ while on my OpenBSD/sparc box: root 1185 0.0 0.4 672 236 ?? Ss 2:52PM 0:00.15 /usr/local/sbin/ntpd -p /var/run/ntpd.p ^^^ ^^^ Why the heck ntpd needs 3 threads and 4 MB of RAM? This is on a 64MB RAM box and I cannot afford 4 MB only for a process that's supposed to send some datagrams and compute time. Geez! [I know what the price for 256MB DIMM is but I need SIMMS ;-( - if anybody wants to trade some 16/32MB SIMMS for 4/8 please let me know 8) ] florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 7 15:09:27 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628089E@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=1&catid=40&threadid=457398 > > $500 for a Gateway PIII 933 w/ 128MB ram and a 9GB SCSI drive. Make sure > you choose the $400 off option, and lower the support to 1 year to get that > price. Not too shabby. And I'm utterly unable to convince myself to buy one for at home. :( If only they had an AGP slot.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From steveg at transition.com Thu Jun 7 15:18:56 2001 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ntpd size Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BBF49@postman.transition.com> General Nano has 32MB SIMMS for $60, and 16MB for $30. Seems like a lot of money but I was surprised that they still carry 'em. I know what the price for 256MB DIMM is but I need SIMMS ;-( - if anybody wants to trade some 16/32MB SIMMS for 4/8 please let me know 8) ] florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at luths.net Thu Jun 7 15:46:02 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991946762.3b1fe80a1d4f4@www.luths.net> Hmm. Anyone know about Linux compatibility with the ServerWorks III chipset Though I think I'd rather have a configged PPro 200 for about $100. Quoting Nate Carlson : > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=1&catid=40&threadid=457398 > > > > $500 for a Gateway PIII 933 w/ 128MB ram and a 9GB SCSI drive. Make > sure > > you choose the $400 off option, and lower the support to 1 year to get > that > > price. Not too shabby. > > And I'm utterly unable to convince myself to buy one for at home. :( If > only they had an AGP slot.. > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From ben at nerp.net Thu Jun 7 15:41:43 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ntpd size In-Reply-To: <20010607150403.A4474@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- yikes.. I don't know why your NTP server is that big.. or why you have three of them. our redhat 6.2 systems: (xntp3-5.93-14) root 342 0.0 0.3 1364 1364 ? SL May16 0:00 xntpd -A a debian system: (ntpd versoin 5.0.99g) root 308 0.0 0.6 1556 1548 ? SL May14 0:44 /usr/sbin/ntpd Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > While I was waiting for something to compile I ran a top on my new > debian box and something caught my attention: > > root 256 0.0 5.0 3928 3920 ? SL 13:44 0:01 /usr/sbin/ntpd > root 258 0.0 5.0 3928 3920 ? SL 13:44 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd > root 260 0.0 5.0 3928 3920 ? SL 13:44 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd > ^^^^ ^^^^ > while on my OpenBSD/sparc box: > > root 1185 0.0 0.4 672 236 ?? Ss 2:52PM 0:00.15 /usr/local/sbin/ntpd -p /var/run/ntpd.p > ^^^ ^^^ > > Why the heck ntpd needs 3 threads and 4 MB of RAM? > > This is on a 64MB RAM box and I cannot afford 4 MB only for a process > that's supposed to send some datagrams and compute time. > > Geez! > > [I know what the price for 256MB DIMM is but I need SIMMS ;-( - if > anybody wants to trade some 16/32MB SIMMS for 4/8 please let me know 8) ] > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOx/nCMtpDhsSpvgtAQH++wP+MriXZFXEpLsm6NMlR3V51+UISE64Ql21 WkGxQgHGXyKoxIqgX0uAR0lsjTFJY2V8it99EXzbLCZJgH6wX0H+Rv7ZU+cdce+g Z55f53X+5dCznIrgpiAOqpxSUNy3gV9wb70goCWuogfcYFiziFHKQf/diRuzYfmu K1ZCsbB8RD0= =pha+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ben at nerp.net Thu Jun 7 15:43:14 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! In-Reply-To: <991946762.3b1fe80a1d4f4@www.luths.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have 2 Dell servers (2450) that use serverworks, and run great.. not exactly standard listing for devices, but here's what lspci says: 00:00.0 Host bridge: Relience Computer CNB20HE (rev 05) 00:00.1 Host bridge: Relience Computer CNB20HE (rev 05) 00:02.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec AHA-294x / AIC-7884U (rev 01) 00:0e.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 3D Rage IIC (rev 7a) 00:0f.0 ISA bridge: Relience Computer: Unknown device 0200 (rev 50) 00:0f.1 IDE interface: Relience Computer: Unknown device 0211 00:0f.2 USB Controller: Relience Computer: Unknown device 0220 (rev 04) 01:02.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation: Unknown device 0962 (rev 02) 01:08.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557 [Ethernet Pro 100] (rev 08) 02:04.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec 7899P (rev 01) 02:04.1 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec 7899P (rev 01) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > Hmm. Anyone know about Linux compatibility with the ServerWorks III chipset > Though I think I'd rather have a configged PPro 200 for about $100. > > Quoting Nate Carlson : > > > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > > > http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=1&catid=40&threadid=457398 > > > > > > $500 for a Gateway PIII 933 w/ 128MB ram and a 9GB SCSI drive. Make > > sure > > > you choose the $400 off option, and lower the support to 1 year to get > > that > > > price. Not too shabby. > > > > And I'm utterly unable to convince myself to buy one for at home. :( If > > only they had an AGP slot.. > > > > -- > > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOx/nY8tpDhsSpvgtAQGinwQAxny4Fp5IxbgHzmnilSLSzP9YYiLWNncS ghsM4HbA0pPkELnyO29lPz76ANcO4s0Ul6feifxxrdFFHoxboUJzoz1dTUzAUIL7 DS4yrDyYgUeZnmlJ0asTlm6iemAas0pVSfx0UzmJEI359LwLkgb6BvM3Eak6v9TX aypq6b6Igsk= =qOGz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From andy at theasis.com Thu Jun 7 15:55:22 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SIMMS (was ntpd size) In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BBF49@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: I can bring a bag of 8s (72-pin) to the beer meeting tonite, if that'll help you replace your 4s. Let me know so I don't forget. Andy > General Nano has 32MB SIMMS for $60, and 16MB for $30. Seems like a lot of > money but I was surprised that they still carry 'em. > > > > I know what the price for 256MB DIMM is but I need SIMMS ;-( - if > anybody wants to trade some 16/32MB SIMMS for 4/8 please let me know 8) ] > > florin > > From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 7 15:58:22 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ntpd size In-Reply-To: ; from ben@nerp.net on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:41:43PM -0500 References: <20010607150403.A4474@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010607155822.A32045@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:41:43PM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > yikes.. I don't know why your NTP server is that big.. or why you have > three of them. > > our redhat 6.2 systems: (xntp3-5.93-14) > root 342 0.0 0.3 1364 1364 ? SL May16 0:00 xntpd -A > > a debian system: (ntpd versoin 5.0.99g) > root 308 0.0 0.6 1556 1548 ? SL May14 0:44 /usr/sbin/ntpd > On a redhat 7.1 system: root 550 0.0 0.7 1980 1972 ? SL 13:44 0:00 ntpd with ntp-4.0.99k-15 I did a "dpkg -l ntp" on the debian box: Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Description +++-==============-==============-============================================ ii ntp 4.0.99g-3 Daemon and utilities for full NTP v4 timekee It is configured as apt did: I did not touch the file. Where did you got ntp-5.0.99? florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From mjn at umn.edu Thu Jun 7 16:21:34 2001 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP/Apache question... Message-ID: And a stupid one at that. I have an Apache webserver with PHP compiled -apxs. My question is this: I have a request from someone to add an include_path for php but I haven't been able to figure it out. According to the docs, because of how it was compiled, this should be done in the httpd.conf but I am clueless as to what the comparable apache config token would be...anyone know? I am sure it is easy but i am sure I don't know the answer... Thanks. ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ From joel at luths.net Thu Jun 7 16:46:34 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP/Apache question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991950394.3b1ff63a222fb@www.luths.net> Maybe in your php.ini? I have this in my (4.0.4pl1) php.ini: include_path = "/usr/local/lib/php:."; UNIX: "/path1:/path2" Windows: "\path1;\path2" I don't have an include_path in my httpd.conf. Quoting mjn : > And a stupid one at that. > > I have an Apache webserver with PHP compiled -apxs. My question is > this: > > I have a request from someone to add an include_path for php but I > haven't > been able to figure it out. According to the docs, because of how it > was > compiled, this should be done in the httpd.conf but I am clueless as to > what the comparable apache config token would be...anyone know? I am > sure > it is easy but i am sure I don't know the answer... > > Thanks. > > ____________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ > ____________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 7 16:40:14 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP/Apache question... Message-ID: The 'include_path' is a directive destined for your "php.ini" file, wherever that is located, not "httpd.conf". >>> mjn@umn.edu 06/07/01 04:21PM >>> And a stupid one at that. I have an Apache webserver with PHP compiled -apxs. My question is this: I have a request from someone to add an include_path for php but I haven't been able to figure it out. According to the docs, because of how it was compiled, this should be done in the httpd.conf but I am clueless as to what the comparable apache config token would be...anyone know? I am sure it is easy but i am sure I don't know the answer... Thanks. ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 7 16:54:51 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SIMMS (was ntpd size) In-Reply-To: ; from andy@theasis.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:55:22PM -0500 References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BBF49@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <20010607165451.B32045@beaver.iucha.org> Thanks, but I have some 8s... I was looking for 16s :) On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:55:22PM -0500, andy@theasis.com wrote: > I can bring a bag of 8s (72-pin) to the beer meeting tonite, if that'll > help you replace your 4s. Let me know so I don't forget. > > Andy > > > General Nano has 32MB SIMMS for $60, and 16MB for $30. Seems like a lot of > > money but I was surprised that they still carry 'em. And with $60 you get 256 ECC /Registered. No thanks florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From mjn at umn.edu Thu Jun 7 17:03:36 2001 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP/Apache question... In-Reply-To: <991950394.3b1ff63a222fb@www.luths.net> Message-ID: On Jun 7, 2001 joel@luths.net said something like: > Maybe in your php.ini? I have this in my (4.0.4pl1) php.ini: > > include_path = "/usr/local/lib/php:."; UNIX: "/path1:/path2" > Windows: "\path1;\path2" > > I don't have an include_path in my httpd.conf. > I have already considered this but the problem is I have no php.ini. Apache starts just fine and a call to phpinfo() works as well and even displays a path to the configuration file. According to the php documentation: "When using PHP as an Apache module, you can also change the configuration settings using directives in Apache configuration files and .htaccess files. With PHP 3.0, there are Apache directives that correspond to each configuration setting in the php3.ini name, except the name is prefixed by "php3_"." It seems that when php is compiled as an apache module(-apxs) no php.ini is created(I have updated the locate DB and search many times). I have created a php.ini file in my Configuration File Path and restarted Apache. That file is not being read though...or so it appears. include_path is listed as .:/usr/local/lib/php and does not include the path i have specified... Any other ideas? ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Thu Jun 7 17:18:51 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mounting screws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: M3 for 5 1/4 bays, 6-32 for 3 1/2 bays -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Phil Mendelsohn Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 2:44 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] mounting screws Does someone know what the spec are for typical drive mounting screws? I mean like #6-40 X 1/4. I don't have a thread gauge handy. Thanks. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Thu Jun 7 17:24:18 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ddos of grc Message-ID: <3B1FFF12.4040509@mn.rr.com> http://grc.com/dos/grcdos.htm I stumbled across this today, I don't know how many of you may have seen it but I thought it was worth posting. SG, O.S.D. -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 7 17:24:38 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP/Apache question... Message-ID: >>> mjn@UMN.EDU 06/07/01 05:03PM >>> >I have created a php.ini file in my Configuration File Path >and restarted Apache. That file is not being read though... >or so it appears. Have you made sure that the "php.ini" file you created can be read as the user apache eventually runs as ('nobody' I think on red hat)? From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 17:28:21 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mounting screws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks -- that's the ticket. On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Matthew LaBerge wrote: > M3 for 5 1/4 bays, 6-32 for 3 1/2 bays > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On > Behalf Of Phil Mendelsohn > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 2:44 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] mounting screws > > Does someone know what the spec are for typical drive mounting screws? I > mean like #6-40 X 1/4. I don't have a thread gauge handy. Thanks. > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Thu Jun 7 17:34:21 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Star Office 5.2, KDE, Gnome OT Visio References: <20010606.11543800@LinWin.MShome> <20010606082432.A24575@minime.sistina.com> <3B1ED17A.5060002@mn.rr.com> <20010607003548.A3127@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3B20016D.9090305@mn.rr.com> Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:57:30PM -0500, Steve wrote: > >>Seems like I am not the only one that the crappy weather of late is getting to. >> >>Speaking of MS apps, anyone had any luck getting Visio 2000 running with VMWare, >>WINE or Win4Lin? I need to be able to run Visio for work and booting into >>Windows just seems to suck what little intelligence I have left right out my head. >> >>My mind is like a FIFO as Linux goes in, Windows goes out. >> > > Mine used to be. Then i contemplated supporting all those non-technichal > people trying to run linux for the first time at work. Personally I'd rather > the business people were productive at makeing Sistina Successful and rich, > rather than having the have the mount, cp, and rm commands explained to them > I agree, I was in no way suggesting that everyone should be running Linux. -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From drake at lemongecko.myip.org Thu Jun 7 16:45:33 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.myip.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation - fixed! In-Reply-To: <20010607122532.2cc563c9.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > I can tell you for a fact that your IDE-SCSI emulation is not working.. > read your dmesg and I'm sure that you will see that your CD-RW is being > enumerated as a simple /dev/hd? (IDE) device, not a SCSI device. Ah, yes it is... Bingo! That's the secret, making sure your kernel doesn't know anything about IDE cdroms, so that it only uses the SCSI emulation. Thanks, everyone! Dan From seg at haxxed.com Thu Jun 7 18:28:49 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. References: Message-ID: <3B200E31.333684A0@haxxed.com> Here, just to cheer up Bob a bit, maybe: http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html They're way overreacting, but still, its negative, and its The Wall Street Journal. From eng at pinenet.com Thu Jun 7 20:01:38 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. Message-ID: <01C0EF8C.A9E9B6E0.eng@pinenet.com> They are getting to be some nasty cowboys at MS. The writer of the article suggested the new MS browser could edit another's web page ?? But it seemed more like the browser just kept trying to redirect the user ?? The internet is going over to high speed junkies. Simple, thoughtful communications is giving way to thrill seekers. Maybe MS is introducing a new stage in interactive web?? -----Original Message----- From: Callum Lerwick [SMTP:seg@haxxed.com] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:29 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. Here, just to cheer up Bob a bit, maybe: http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html They're way overreacting, but still, its negative, and its The Wall Street Journal. _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jun 7 20:00:29 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] burners and SCSI emulation - fixed! In-Reply-To: References: <20010607122532.2cc563c9.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010607200029.6ecda08f.blayer@qwest.net> Hi, On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:45:33 -0400 (EDT) "Dan Drake" wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > > I can tell you for a fact that your IDE-SCSI emulation is not working.. > > read your dmesg and I'm sure that you will see that your CD-RW is being > > enumerated as a simple /dev/hd? (IDE) device, not a SCSI device. > > Ah, yes it is... > > > > Bingo! > That's the secret, making sure your kernel doesn't know anything about > IDE cdroms, so that it only uses the SCSI emulation. Not necessary.. I have the IDE CD-ROM driver built-in, and I have never had a problem with SCSI emulation. Not sure why you might.. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 7 21:31:45 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. In-Reply-To: <01C0EF8C.A9E9B6E0.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: IE 5.something does introduce a nifty something or other that allows for online rich text editing. I figure it's mostly useful as a component of a MSized content management system. I do wish there were a generalized java applet that would do that. Lotus has a nice editor applet but alas, it's proprietary to lotus. The idea is they use it to allow for more notes-ish stuff to happen via the web. Nifty stuff all around. (then again, I *am* a domino developer so I'm biased) Josh ___SIG___ On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > They are getting to be some nasty cowboys at MS. The writer of the article > suggested the new MS browser could edit another's web page ?? But it > seemed more like the browser just kept trying to redirect the user ?? > > The internet is going over to high speed junkies. Simple, thoughtful > communications is giving way to thrill seekers. Maybe MS is introducing a > new stage in interactive web?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Callum Lerwick [SMTP:seg@haxxed.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:29 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. > > Here, just to cheer up Bob a bit, maybe: > > http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB991862595554629527.html > > They're way overreacting, but still, its negative, and its The Wall > Street Journal. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 21:40:21 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. In-Reply-To: <01C0EF8C.A9E9B6E0.eng@pinenet.com> References: <01C0EF8C.A9E9B6E0.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20010607214021.2dd2b794.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Rick Engebretson wrote: > > They are getting to be some nasty cowboys at MS. The writer of the > article suggested the new MS browser could edit another's web page ?? > But it seemed more like the browser just kept trying to redirect the > user ?? Yeah, to me, it looks a lot like MSNBC's thing where you can ``click on a word -- any word -- and get the definition.'' I know that software was widely touted as spyware (I think Newsweek even had an article on it). This stuff is probably the same. I guess the C|Net article on the same subject said that Microsoft was not the only organization that could do this. Supposedly, you can do the same thing on your intranet, though I don't think I know of many organizations that would have much use for it. I wonder what sort of a link Microsoft makes for `Linux' ;-) Still, this does have echoes of `1984,' and they did manage to piss off The Journal, so who knows what the future holds for MS. I've haven't been in an active Linux Advocate mode for some time, mostly due to concerns about how most distributions leave far too many services open. I installed RedHat 7.1 on a system today and was happy to see that it included some pretty good firewalling rules (though it still turned on a lot of services, but they were only available to localhost). If I hear more strange noises coming from that corner of the continent, I think I'm going to become much more active about getting Linux going wherever possible. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ General Failure reading / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ John Dvorak \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010607/1a7aef67/attachment.pgp From andyzib at ringworld.org Thu Jun 7 21:54:26 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. References: <01C0EF8C.A9E9B6E0.eng@pinenet.com> <20010607214021.2dd2b794.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B203E62.8947D3E0@ringworld.org> Control the Desktop OS - check Control the browsing platform - check Control lobyists and juges - check Control databases and information - check Control what people WANT - check. Control overpopulation, check (http://bbspot.com/News/2001/06/xbox.html) -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010607/a22716f3/andyzib.vcf From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 22:14:08 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bridging Firewall filtering by MAC address? Message-ID: <20010607221408.32798678.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> I'm curious if anyone out there knows if it's possible to put together a bridging firewall in Linux or *BSD that can have a list of MAC addresses to permit through the bridge, and all others would be dropped. Actually, it would be preferable to be able to filter based on MAC address and by what ethernet port it came in on. I think most bridging firewall patches I've seen will only allow you to filter the bridge as one big chunk, rather than by interface, but I may be mistaken. Note that an ethernet bridge usually bypasses the TCP/IP stack (I think bridging works at a lower layer in the standard Taco Bell model than most filtering systems), so special patches would probably be required for it to work. At work, we need to be able to filter out some wireless traffic. The 802.11 bridges can supposedly do this, but there are several of them, and keeping the allowed addresses in sync could be a pain. Additionally, the wireless bridges we have only have a small amount of memory, so large tables could pose a problem. If worse comes to worse, I imagine we'll just have to carve out a new subnet. Filtering on an actual router appears to be much easier than on a bridge. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Computer Lie #1: You'll / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ never use all that disk \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) space. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010607/736689d2/attachment.pgp From wilson at visi.com Thu Jun 7 22:15:00 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm not able to run any GUI apps as root on my Debian (sid) system. I want to try the latest Mozilla 0.9.1 net installer, but I get the following message (I also see it when I try to run xcdroast): copland:/home/wilson/tmp/mozilla-installer# ./mozilla-installer Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 Hints? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 22:23:21 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm not able to run any GUI apps as root on my Debian (sid) system. I want > to try the latest Mozilla 0.9.1 net installer, but I get the following > message (I also see it when I try to run xcdroast): > > copland:/home/wilson/tmp/mozilla-installer# ./mozilla-installer > Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server > Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server > > Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 Are you logged in as you and then su-ing to root? If so, I think X thinks that someone else owns the display. When I've seen this, usually actually logging in a root has been a fix. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From wilson at visi.com Thu Jun 7 22:40:18 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Are you logged in as you and then su-ing to root? If so, I think X thinks > that someone else owns the display. When I've seen this, usually actually > logging in a root has been a fix. Thanks Phil. That did it. Is there something I can fix that would allow me to su and run GUI apps? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 7 22:41:03 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010607224103.3ae4f2d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Timothy Wilson wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I'm not able to run any GUI apps as root on my Debian (sid) system. I > want to try the latest Mozilla 0.9.1 net installer, but I get the > following message (I also see it when I try to run xcdroast): > > copland:/home/wilson/tmp/mozilla-installer# ./mozilla-installer > Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server > Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server > > Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 > > Hints? You probably need to muck with xauth. I'm not an expert on it, though this has usually worked for me: As the user who `owns' the X session, do `xauth list' and look for the cookie being used by your current session (should look like : and/or /unix:). Then, su or otherwise log in as root or any other user. Type in `xauth add ' and then cut-n-paste the appropriate cookie lines (the whole line, not just the cookie or anything). -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Monday is an awful way to / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ spend 1/7th of your life. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010607/c129ce84/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 7 23:53:40 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wow! Positive linux press! Message-ID: <20010607235340.F15895@real-time.com> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-06-007-20-PR-DP-HE -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From andyzib at ringworld.org Fri Jun 8 00:01:48 2001 From: andyzib at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root References: <20010607224103.3ae4f2d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B205C3C.1FEF8E92@ringworld.org> Use sudo. :) -- | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | This message is protected by double ROT13 | | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: andyzib.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 2265 bytes Desc: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010608/4862f5d5/andyzib.vcf From sos at zjod.net Fri Jun 8 00:07:35 2001 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: ASCI please (was: Re: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root) In-Reply-To: <3B205C3C.1FEF8E92@ringworld.org> from "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" at Jun 08, 2001 12:01:48 AM Message-ID: <200106080507.AAA10138@zjod.net> Any chance we can drop the geekware and go back to plain ASCII? I mean, gee... 50 lines of overhead baggage for a one line response? Kinda over the top, donchyathink? "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > --------------E3AE43AABA4CC6DD0F404193 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Use sudo. :) > > -- > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | This message is protected by double ROT13 | > | encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the | > | digital protection is banned by the DMCA. | > --------------E3AE43AABA4CC6DD0F404193 > Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; > name="andyzib.vcf" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Description: Card for Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) > Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="andyzib.vcf" > > begin:vcard > n:Zbikowski;Andy > tel;pager:612-306-6055 > tel;cell:612-306-6055 > tel;fax:763-428-9126 > tel;home:952-591-0977 > tel;work:763-428-9119 > x-mozilla-html:FALSE > url:http://www.ringworld.org/~zibby > org:Ringworld.Associates/IT Outhouse > adr;quoted-printable:;;1435 Hampshire Ave South=0D=0AApartment 120;St. Louis Park;MN;55426;USA > adr:;;21801 Industrial Blvd.;Rogers;MN;55374;USA > version:2.1 > email;internet:andyzib@ringworld.org > title:Geek at Large > note;quoted-printable:-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----=0D=0AVersion: GnuPG v0.9.10 (GNU/Linux)=0D=0AComment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org=0D=0A=0D=0AmQGiBDffOEYRBADLXl9SyC9oCGy3DFPIvl0v1riaVUhqPwwsZOP000upBu5D4u74=0D=0APSIHUoxd4dWtQFGH8WapYBkoBVzJ6FnlfHgbTDJ3FXyoBHxM+VeuynhhBEOpWwUV=0D=0AvI8IqOY/C2MUnXIYI5vxzaLtur2i3QA325rye6ctkFxBgRWfSX5xJr8JCwCg16Ky=0D=0ASfi4SG6aJmUbD8jQQgkgRoED/jZ07DCOF7TSgiFAJRjmRfnnjIIvmvd55gj8tkVF=0D=0Asyb4ljxKmcptkaZSvxWA13RhhooXZub9jd2bwsf54YYPvIt39VRG5X3q74liTo3w=0D=0A+qMuN1JSFEPLreFlClXdajOZtCTYG+Wa0vE0cYvXtwaySa+MFxqSPScNbSJdsabd=0D=0A+bXjA/wPKbqlDzE1JgHAD0lcA5xWqcGz20FZt5U4BVjRtAaf0bfjACfunujgy3WX=0D=0AyQi+OLlDTUVHi68lxwlSOiQGWX82CZZxmWTuL7anRIHqKG1KGc0NfM3jWSaTwa/v=0D=0ASwp6BZiVLTQrolP6fYu0zUgB35tKaC0PuLmja+4b/yTjcTrjGLQzQW5kcmV3IFMu=0D=0AIFpiaWtvd3NraSAoWmliYnkpIDxhbmR5emliQHJpbmd3b3JsZC5vcmc+iFsEExEC=0D=0AABsFAjffOEYFCQPCZwADCwoDAxUDAgMWAgECF4AACgkQ/PFCAPL3hQOs0wCgwP9z=0D=0ALRrvU0cXdiZrENf+Mwv0JUIAnjulmjmRYOHgIWz51J4MnzREyqvEiEYEEBECA! ! > AYF=0D=0AAjfgWB0ACgkQo5KwPf3WRZUpbwCgku3zjPQ+m5heHy9Wg5EiV75CgiYAoIE5jzc0=0D=0A3L89mvYbeClpv5hxKD0GiEYEEBECAAYFAjfgRh4ACgkQwi9MYooDHem9zACgui05=0D=0A9sVe23/Q3j/EOfRCP+K9dzUAn2WjlXSqpsH/9semHQGDVXC2iERnuQENBDffOFgQ=0D=0ABADYMD2R8fnqpt6Z5NgPNHWhwKibQt5dG+2tjGlfmNGkkSxhgaxT26uQodQHJIkn=0D=0AHjBUqlfRUyAq/fKVgPszLrnD3zrqV3qyaoGoVWzgG37S33/mBRp3A/84t2RVskCf=0D=0AFHpy1b6MWn9o2+SKymMKHcXDBBDuzqnEfe151xcEL/WZBwADBwQAthIl/h2pLb8u=0D=0AVSlWOUxL103fgl4GlQFzzxPZEwVwNDfBvE2h9RvFtwnnayM7A6aQ7qfXnWsa+oDq=0D=0A4Tkc9sIh203Ifc1E38RxLKFItl5nCdDfANar+Qr1GSg3WOl/UZ2su/9H6LDOF0B7=0D=0AXz1lFkuYHLffzCIwKkO1ymnlq60AWLCITAQYEQIADAUCN984WAUJA8JnAAAKCRD8=0D=0A8UIA8veFAxtsAKDCNCwr52FamSiEi+fqNU3GxzmpugCeL9Y+bXOqMn4Y/IqK/Jj7=0D=0AtnQH92U=3D=0D=0A=3DNfhy=0D=0A-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----=0D=0A > x-mozilla-cpt:;-15168 > fn:Andy Zbikowski > end:vcard > > --------------E3AE43AABA4CC6DD0F404193-- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From seg at haxxed.com Fri Jun 8 05:03:57 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet References: Message-ID: <3B20A30D.1FB6DB9E@haxxed.com> > > > For now you can find it at http://www.haxxed.com/hardware/ > > > > I can't get this to work as of 9:45AM on Thursday - anyone else having > > problems with it? > > It doesn't show up here either. I moved it over to http://www.haxxed.com/trader/ And I managed to get my account/session tracking system grafted on. Far more stuff hardwired than I thought. But nothing more yet. Heh... From sbernsen at innoveda.com Fri Jun 8 08:35:01 2001 From: sbernsen at innoveda.com (Seth Bernsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root References: <20010607224103.3ae4f2d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B20D485.302B270D@innoveda.com> Mike Hicks wrote: > > Timothy Wilson wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > I'm not able to run any GUI apps as root on my Debian (sid) system. I > > want to try the latest Mozilla 0.9.1 net installer, but I get the > > following message (I also see it when I try to run xcdroast): > > > > copland:/home/wilson/tmp/mozilla-installer# ./mozilla-installer > > Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server > > Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server > > > > Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 Before you su run "xhost +". If you've already su'ed, you can run xhost + in another window and it should also work. Then make sure your DISPLAY environment variable is set correctly, for csh: setenv DISPLAY :0.0 If your on the console, I believe :0.0 will probably work, but :0.0 will definitely work. I guarantee (almost) this will work. -- Seth Bernsen V-CPU Engineer Innoveda, Inc. Phone: 651-765-2252 Fax: 651-765-2205 http://www.innoveda.com From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 8 08:47:02 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki Games Order Message-ID: Hey, Ok, people. So far, out of around 30 people who initially registered, only 14 still want any games. In fact, only about 16 people even replied. I was going to close the whole thing off on Monday, and send the listover to Loki, but we don't have 10 of any title anymore. Also, Loki hve informed me that the games which we don't have prices for cannot be ordered yet. If you were taking your time and thinking "I'll confirm the thing later" and now it's buried under 200 Emails, PLEASE dig it out and reply! Thanks, -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 8 08:47:20 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: ASCI please (was: Re: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root) In-Reply-To: <200106080507.AAA10138@zjod.net> Message-ID: Whoops, haven't used netscape to send mail for so long I forgot all that it was doing. Beack to pine. :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Jun 8 09:14:02 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:40:18PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010608091402.A23248@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:40:18PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > Are you logged in as you and then su-ing to root? If so, I think X thinks > > that someone else owns the display. When I've seen this, usually actually > > logging in a root has been a fix. > > Thanks Phil. That did it. Is there something I can fix that would allow me > to su and run GUI apps? Use 'ssh -l root'. (You'll need "PermitRootLogin yes" and "X11Forwarding yes" in your sshd_config). -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 8 09:14:17 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: <3B20D485.302B270D@innoveda.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Seth Bernsen wrote: > Before you su run "xhost +". If you've already su'ed, you can run xhost > + in another window and it should also work. Then make sure your > DISPLAY environment variable is set correctly, for csh: > > setenv DISPLAY :0.0 > > If your on the console, I believe :0.0 will probably work, but > :0.0 will definitely work. > > I guarantee (almost) this will work. This should work, but it is a big scary security hole. Anyone who can access the X ports (6000 to 6something) can get in to your desktop. This is one of the big reasons why ssh is preferred over telnet. If for some reason you really have to do xhost +, you should at least use an explicit hostname -- xhost +host.domain.foo -- so that there's at least *some* measure of protection that not anyone can hop in with you. Of course if you're on an isolated net or machine, it doesn't matter, but who is these days? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From nolanjm at juno.com Fri Jun 8 09:51:28 2001 From: nolanjm at juno.com (Jerry M Nolan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1080 - 16 msgs Message-ID: <20010608.095130.-361725.0.nolanjm@juno.com> screw sizes are 2-56 3-48 4-40 6-32 computer hd screws are usually 4-40 with a larger head. length is from base of head to tip. most hdwe stores now carry them ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From drake at lemongecko.myip.org Fri Jun 8 08:50:15 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.myip.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor In-Reply-To: <20010608.095130.-361725.0.nolanjm@juno.com> Message-ID: So, after the quick & useful help on getting my burner working, I'm making a mix CD. I need a WAV editor for some simple trimming and fade-[in|out]s. Any suggestions? If possible, I'd like something I just apt-get to my Debian box. :) (I tried audacity, but it won't save full quality WAVs :( ) TIA Dan From tobytoo at black-hole.com Fri Jun 8 10:08:44 2001 From: tobytoo at black-hole.com (Brian Toberman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki game order Message-ID: <22648200165815844557@black-hole.com> Hey, Ok, people. So far, out of around 30 people who initially registered, only 14 still want any games. In fact, only about 16 people even replied. I was going to close the whole thing off on Monday, and send the listover to Loki, but we don't have 10 of any title anymore. Yes I want my games "Also, Loki hve informed me that the games which we don't have prices for cannot be ordered yet. If you were taking your time and thinking "I'll confirm the thing later" and now it's buried under 200 Emails, PLEASE dig it out and reply! Thanks, -Yaron" From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 8 10:16:37 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try xwave. Maybe ecawave. gwave maybe, not sure. | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 8 10:17:04 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: ASCI please (was: Re: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root) In-Reply-To: <200106080507.AAA10138@zjod.net> Message-ID: <20010608101704.D21402@ringworld.org> * Steve Siegfried [010608 00:08]: > gee... 50 lines of overhead baggage for a one line response? Kinda > over the top, donchyathink? Learn how to use procmail. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010608/5728c626/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 8 10:18:59 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010608101859.E21402@ringworld.org> * Ben Kochie [010607 15:44]: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > I have 2 Dell servers (2450) that use serverworks, and run great.. But a custom dell board. This is from an intel serverworks board: 00:00.0 Host bridge: Relience Computer CNB20HE (rev 05) 00:00.1 Host bridge: Relience Computer CNB20HE (rev 05) 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 3D Rage IIC 215IIC [Mach64 GT IIC] (rev 7a) 00:03.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557 [Ethernet Pro 100] (rev 08)00:0f.0 ISA bridge: Relience Computer: Unknown device 0200 (rev 4f) 00:0f.1 IDE interface: Relience Computer: Unknown device 0211 01:04.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec 7899P 01:04.1 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec 7899P Mmmmmm. Dual ultra 160 controllers. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010608/ef1c79e1/attachment.pgp From duncan at sodatrain.com Fri Jun 8 09:34:43 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! - pretty cheap desktop In-Reply-To: <20010608101859.E21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: i thought id share this, its semi-relevant. i just picked up a barebones AMD t-bird 900 (200) w /256 and a case w/power supply and a decent mobo for $308 from mwave... From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 8 10:41:30 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: ASCI please (was: Re: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root) In-Reply-To: <20010608101704.D21402@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:17:04AM -0500 References: <200106080507.AAA10138@zjod.net> <20010608101704.D21402@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010608104130.A23666@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:17:04AM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > * Steve Siegfried [010608 00:08]: > > gee... 50 lines of overhead baggage for a one line response? Kinda > > over the top, donchyathink? > > Learn how to use procmail. That's not the issue. He was sending to the whole world xyz lines of junk. I would bet 10 to 1 that nobody was interested in that vcf/disclaimer/whatever. (no flame/offense andy). A couple lines of .sig are ok... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 8 10:46:52 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Dan Drake wrote: > So, after the quick & useful help on getting my burner working, I'm > making a mix CD. I need a WAV editor for some simple trimming and > fade-[in|out]s. Any suggestions? If possible, I'd like something I just > apt-get to my Debian box. :) I like snd, but it's *way* too much for what you want. Try http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linuxsound/ for a big pile of stuff to look at. HTH -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Jun 8 11:20:40 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet In-Reply-To: <3B20A30D.1FB6DB9E@haxxed.com>; from seg@haxxed.com on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 05:03:57AM -0500 References: <3B20A30D.1FB6DB9E@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010608112040.D5674@iaxs.net> On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 05:03:57AM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > I moved it over to http://www.haxxed.com/trader/ > > And I managed to get my account/session tracking system grafted on. Far > more stuff hardwired than I thought. But nothing more yet. Heh... So, how do I get an account? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com Fri Jun 8 06:23:40 2001 From: ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com (Ming) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Hardware Trading Forum Thingy That Doesn't Have AName Yet In-Reply-To: <20010608112040.D5674@iaxs.net> Message-ID: Ditto. Jason On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Scott Raun wrote: > On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 05:03:57AM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > I moved it over to http://www.haxxed.com/trader/ > > > > And I managed to get my account/session tracking system grafted on. Far > > more stuff hardwired than I thought. But nothing more yet. Heh... > > So, how do I get an account? > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Fri Jun 8 12:43:45 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor References: <200106081701.f58H1JK18496@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B210ED1.DB1CB95D@steinerpoint.com> Dan -- Two years ago I wrote some command line tools for editing RIFF/WAV files. You can mix, fade, silence fill, and chop files. I have not looked at these since then, and I don't remember the details about different file formats, but I will send them to you and you can try them out if you want. Untar and make. There is a document that describes how to use them. Let me know if they work for you. -- Al From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 8 13:56:47 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: ASCI please (was: Re: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root) In-Reply-To: <20010608104130.A23666@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010608135646.F21402@ringworld.org> > That's not the issue. He was sending to the whole world xyz lines of junk. > I would bet 10 to 1 that nobody was interested in that vcf/disclaimer/whatever. Ok, someone make mailing list policy, turn on procmail on the mail list server, and start kicking people out who do it. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010608/550d0f7d/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 8 13:58:09 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VMware crashes Message-ID: I'm tinkering around with VMware, running Win98 inside of a virtual machine for a few odds and ends. Well, the machine I'm running this on is not well suited to be doing this, and Vmware sometimes crashes if I ask too much from Windows. The problem is that when VMware crashes, a lot comes with it. Xwindows (4.0.x) crashes, and oddly enough, my GATEWAY machine loses its conencton to the internet. I've got a linux box acting as a router on my cable modem. The only way to re-establish the internet connection is to COLD boot the linux box and reset the cable modem. Any ideas why this happens? TIA, Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 8 14:37:42 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor In-Reply-To: <3B210ED1.DB1CB95D@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > Two years ago I wrote some command line tools for editing RIFF/WAV files. > You can mix, fade, silence fill, and chop files. Hey, that's fun -- I might like to peek at 'em too, if it weren't a problem. Did you scale things before mixing, or just do it quick and dirty? How adjustable is the envelope on fades, or did you just do a linear slope? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From JMiller2 at dainrauscher.com Fri Jun 8 14:50:46 2001 From: JMiller2 at dainrauscher.com (Miller, John) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor Message-ID: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940F83E1@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> I would also be interested in them. John Miller Dain Rauscher Inc. Application Services IS Capital Markets Phone 612-547-7573 Fax 612-547-7580 mailto:jmiller2@dainrauscher.com -----Original Message----- From: Phil Mendelsohn [mailto:mend0070@tc.umn.edu] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:38 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] wav editor On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > Two years ago I wrote some command line tools for editing RIFF/WAV files. > You can mix, fade, silence fill, and chop files. Hey, that's fun -- I might like to peek at 'em too, if it weren't a problem. Did you scale things before mixing, or just do it quick and dirty? How adjustable is the envelope on fades, or did you just do a linear slope? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at luths.net Fri Jun 8 15:00:04 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cheap servers! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992030404.3b212ec4186d4@www.luths.net> Unfortunately, I couldn't convince myself not to. There is an additional $50 coupon (SOL50) for "home only" use that brought the final price to $510, shipped. Probably won't arrive til 6/29, which gives me time to decide if I should try to make a light gamer out of it with a Radeon PCI (til I get a real desktop) or just leave it as a server. Quoting Nate Carlson : > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=1&catid=40&threadid=457398 > > > > $500 for a Gateway PIII 933 w/ 128MB ram and a 9GB SCSI drive. Make > sure > > you choose the $400 off option, and lower the support to 1 year to get > that > > price. Not too shabby. > > And I'm utterly unable to convince myself to buy one for at home. :( If > only they had an AGP slot.. > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 8 15:26:14 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux Message-ID: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. Anything I'm missing? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From kethry at winternet.com Fri Jun 8 15:32:57 2001 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. jbuilder does this to me even on win32 machines > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. that's 'cuz it's all java based and is trying to debug and run it's own JVM stuff... I don't know of any good GUI *nix IDE's at all other than POSSIBLY Komodo, but last I saw it doesn't handle Java - just JavaScript... Can you run the Sun command line debugger? Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Fri Jun 8 15:39:50 2001 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B213816.6BCB303F@securecomputing.com> You could try jdb! :) My guess is that's what emacs is using though I haven't ever tried it. I'm suprised that jbuilder dies on you, I've not had that particular problem. I think anything you use to debug java is going to be "god-awful slow". Just the nature of the beast. Bob Tanner wrote: > > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > Anything I'm missing? -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 8 15:38:05 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: ; from kethry@winternet.com on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:32:57PM -0500 References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com> Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill (kethry@winternet.com): > Can you run the Sun command line debugger? ick. that is why I said a -good- debugger. :-) Like gdb. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jack at jacku.com Fri Jun 8 15:39:18 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. In-Reply-To: <20010607214021.2dd2b794.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <01C0EF8C.A9E9B6E0.eng@pinenet.com> <20010607214021.2dd2b794.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <01060815391800.01260@geezer> It sounds an awful lot like 3rd Voice and other "annotation" engines that run under IE. In this case the annotations are made by M$ and not a group of "like minded" individuals. 3rd Voice was discussed on the Cluetrain Manifesto site (I think or maybe on another site that talked about Cluetrain...) Its to be expected. M$ sees it self as a content provider now. Its just coming up with more ways to deliver consumers to its content or its partners content. Jack From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 8 16:14:38 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. In-Reply-To: <01060815391800.01260@geezer> Message-ID: I've gotta jump in here. There's a good reason why lots of neat web stuff works better in IE. It's always been a nicer browser to develop for than NS. Mozilla changes that somewhat by being a competitive W3C DOM implementation but IE has a lot of lead time. The IE vs !IE thing comes up regularly when our notes dev team tries to do much work from the web. Essentially, NS4 should just die right now. It's too buggy and wierd. IE4 is mostly OK, IE5 is really nifty and so it NS6. Obviously IE5's backwards compatiblity with the IE4 model is a definate plus over NS6. I guess I just think it's obvious why stuff is developed for IE. It either can't be done in NS4, it's too fugly or it requires too much server cooperation. NS6 is too new to be a real contender. Josh ___SIG___ On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > It sounds an awful lot like 3rd Voice and other "annotation" engines that run > under IE. In this case the annotations are made by M$ and not a group of > "like minded" individuals. 3rd Voice was discussed on the Cluetrain Manifesto > site (I think or maybe on another site that talked about Cluetrain...) > > Its to be expected. M$ sees it self as a content provider now. Its just > coming up with more ways to deliver consumers to its content or its partners > content. > > Jack > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 8 16:28:10 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:38:05PM -0500 References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010608162810.A21673@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:38:05PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill (kethry@winternet.com): > > Can you run the Sun command line debugger? > > ick. that is why I said a -good- debugger. :-) Like gdb. > ddd is a good frontend and it supports jdb it is written in c search on freshmeat florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 8 16:29:56 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: ; from kethry@winternet.com on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:32:57PM -0500 References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010608162956.Q23128@real-time.com> Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill (kethry@winternet.com): > Can you run the Sun command line debugger? jdb is worse the stdout debugging. Sheesh. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joel at luths.net Fri Jun 8 17:07:34 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992038054.3b214ca694ee7@www.luths.net> That's a different issue than Smart Tags, which is what the WSJ article is about. I'm a bit surprised by this Smart Tags feature, at least from MS. Aren't they the ones that have been saying OSS/GPL/whatever threatens intellectual property, even though in that case the author/owner consciously chooses to go that route? And now MS is going to intercept content (without the author/owner's consent) and alter it before presenting it to the requestor. So much for IP. Besides, I don't like the idea of them placing their ads ("...Microsoft officials confirm that they will send users to Microsoft Web properties or to other properties blessed by Microsoft") on my site unless they're going to pay me. I also find this annoying: "...(MS) will provide a free bit of programming code, called a 'meta tag', that site owners could use to bar any Smart Tags from appearing on their sites." Tacit approval? Bull. How about they provide a meta tag that _enables_ this feature. Then I'd have a lot less to gripe about. Quoting Joshua Jore : > I've gotta jump in here. There's a good reason why lots of neat web > stuff > works better in IE. It's always been a nicer browser to develop for than > NS. Mozilla changes that somewhat by being a competitive W3C DOM > implementation but IE has a lot of lead time. The IE vs !IE thing comes > up > regularly when our notes dev team tries to do much work from the web. > Essentially, NS4 should just die right now. It's too buggy and wierd. > IE4 > is mostly OK, IE5 is really nifty and so it NS6. Obviously IE5's > backwards > compatiblity with the IE4 model is a definate plus over NS6. > > I guess I just think it's obvious why stuff is developed for IE. It > either > can't be done in NS4, it's too fugly or it requires too much server > cooperation. NS6 is too new to be a real contender. > > Josh > > ___SIG___ > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > > It sounds an awful lot like 3rd Voice and other "annotation" engines > that run > > under IE. In this case the annotations are made by M$ and not a group > of > > "like minded" individuals. 3rd Voice was discussed on the Cluetrain > Manifesto > > site (I think or maybe on another site that talked about Cluetrain...) > > > > Its to be expected. M$ sees it self as a content provider now. Its > just > > coming up with more ways to deliver consumers to its content or its > partners > > content. > > > > Jack > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From PCZeilon at att.net Fri Jun 8 17:12:14 2001 From: PCZeilon at att.net (Carl & Paula Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SIMMS again Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010608170540.00ae8ec0@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> If you are still looking, let me know. I think I have 2 72pin16mg EDO's. I will verify tonight if you're interested. I can make you a great deal if you're willing to pickup in Apple Valley & spend some time answering Newbie questions that seem far to easy for this forum. From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 8 17:11:36 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608162810.A21673@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 04:28:10PM -0500 References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com> <20010608162810.A21673@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010608171136.T23128@real-time.com> Quoting Florin Iucha (florin@iucha.net): > On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:38:05PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill (kethry@winternet.com): > > > Can you run the Sun command line debugger? > > > > ick. that is why I said a -good- debugger. :-) Like gdb. > > > > ddd is a good frontend and it supports jdb > > it is written in c > > search on freshmeat I'm trying to debug java servlets, which means I am having to load the entire servlet container into the debugger and ddd doesn't seem to work all that well with java. ddd -jdb /usr/java/jdk1.3.0_02/bin/java -cp "/usr/enhydra3.1.1b1/lib/enhydra.jar:${CLASSPATH}" com.lutris.multiServer.MultiServer That is what I do and it just sits there forever. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jurupari at geocities.com Fri Jun 8 17:16:04 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200106082216.f58MG8125513@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On 8 Jun 01, at 15:26, Bob Tanner wrote: > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. Hmmm, I have used JBuilder 4 on several different computers. I have also run it both in Windows 98 and RedHat 7.0. I have yet to see it crash. I am surprised to hear that it is doing that on you. Mike From seg at haxxed.com Fri Jun 8 17:29:58 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor References: Message-ID: <3B2151E6.6B969B7F@haxxed.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Dan Drake wrote: > > > So, after the quick & useful help on getting my burner working, I'm > > making a mix CD. I need a WAV editor for some simple trimming and > > fade-[in|out]s. Any suggestions? If possible, I'd like something I just > > apt-get to my Debian box. :) > > I like snd, but it's *way* too much for what you want. > > Try http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linuxsound/ for a big pile of stuff to > look at. HTH Snd is quite nifty. Haven't played with it a whole lot, its UI is a bit different, its much better than the usual. The zoom sliders are such an intelligent way to handle zoom, plus it does zoom in the amplitude domain, not just time... Last I checked it was the only WAV editor for X that was even remotely usable for editing CD tracks. Namely, having at least minimal functionality and doesn't try to load an entire 600mb wav into RAM... And I can't get to that site. Bah. From kethry at winternet.com Fri Jun 8 17:21:27 2001 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: > ick. that is why I said a -good- debugger. :-) Like gdb. gdb? *raises eyebrows* - I'll have to check it out :):) Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 8 19:07:20 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA serial port In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:58:34AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010608190720.B14063@real-time.com> > docking station really isn't an answer here, has anyone ever heard of a > PCMCIA card that will add a serial port? If so, I need to find > one. Thanks! I actually saw a PCMCIA card once that offered *4* serial ports. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From andy at theasis.com Fri Jun 8 19:13:25 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA or USB / serial port In-Reply-To: <20010608190720.B14063@real-time.com> Message-ID: Someone mentioned earlier that one option is to do USB <--> serial. I'm interested in any reports of success with these devices. I'm thinking in particular of using it for a GPS unit, since all of those I know of still use serial, but my vaio laptop requires a klunky port replicator to do serial. I suspect you need 2.4 kernel, right? Anecdote: I tried a USB <--> SCSI adapter for a Scanner, and got it to "work", but it was all messed up with timings or something, and would output inconsistent junk (e.g., separated RGB colors, messed up image, etc.). Andy > I actually saw a PCMCIA card once that offered *4* serial ports. > > Carl Soderstrom > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 8 19:33:02 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some anti MSness for a change. In-Reply-To: <992038054.3b214ca694ee7@www.luths.net> Message-ID: Oh ok. I don't know anything about 'smart tags' except that I've only heard of them in a negative light. Josh ___SIG___ On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > That's a different issue than Smart Tags, which is what the WSJ article is > about. I'm a bit surprised by this Smart Tags feature, at least from MS. Aren't > they the ones that have been saying OSS/GPL/whatever threatens intellectual > property, even though in that case the author/owner consciously chooses to go > that route? And now MS is going to intercept content (without the > author/owner's consent) and alter it before presenting it to the requestor. So > much for IP. Besides, I don't like the idea of them placing their ads > ("...Microsoft officials confirm that they will send users to Microsoft Web > properties or to other properties blessed by Microsoft") on my site unless > they're going to pay me. > > I also find this annoying: "...(MS) will provide a free bit of programming > code, called a 'meta tag', that site owners could use to bar any Smart Tags > from appearing on their sites." Tacit approval? Bull. How about they provide a > meta tag that _enables_ this feature. Then I'd have a lot less to gripe about. > > > Quoting Joshua Jore : > > > I've gotta jump in here. There's a good reason why lots of neat web > > stuff > > works better in IE. It's always been a nicer browser to develop for than > > NS. Mozilla changes that somewhat by being a competitive W3C DOM > > implementation but IE has a lot of lead time. The IE vs !IE thing comes > > up > > regularly when our notes dev team tries to do much work from the web. > > Essentially, NS4 should just die right now. It's too buggy and wierd. > > IE4 > > is mostly OK, IE5 is really nifty and so it NS6. Obviously IE5's > > backwards > > compatiblity with the IE4 model is a definate plus over NS6. > > > > I guess I just think it's obvious why stuff is developed for IE. It > > either > > can't be done in NS4, it's too fugly or it requires too much server > > cooperation. NS6 is too new to be a real contender. > > > > Josh > > > > ___SIG___ > > > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > > > > It sounds an awful lot like 3rd Voice and other "annotation" engines > > that run > > > under IE. In this case the annotations are made by M$ and not a group > > of > > > "like minded" individuals. 3rd Voice was discussed on the Cluetrain > > Manifesto > > > site (I think or maybe on another site that talked about Cluetrain...) > > > > > > Its to be expected. M$ sees it self as a content provider now. Its > > just > > > coming up with more ways to deliver consumers to its content or its > > partners > > > content. > > > > > > Jack > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 8 20:36:15 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wav editor In-Reply-To: <3B2151E6.6B969B7F@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Snd is quite nifty. Haven't played with it a whole lot, its UI is a bit > different, its much better than the usual. Careful! You'll give DD-B ammo in his Holier Than GNU Emacs Jihad :P Snd is heavily emacs oriented. Historically, it tries to replicate functionality of an old program called dpy (I think) that ran on DECsystem 10's. I only ever messed with that once, had no sound hardware, so have no idea if it was a good or bad model. Interestingly (or maybe not) Andy Moorer, was at CCRMA and there's an awful lot of snd present in the interface for Sonic Solutions. Sonic is a lesson in productive UI's (not without learning curve, though). > The zoom sliders are such an > intelligent way to handle zoom, plus it does zoom in the amplitude > domain, not just time... Actually, they are a lot more intelligent on time *than* amplitude. If you had serious editing -- like a classical piece with a couple of hundred edits -- it would be kind of doggy. But since it has both lisp-y macros and you have the source code to boot, you could probably make it slicker if you really wanted to. > Last I checked it was the only WAV editor for X that was even remotely > usable for editing CD tracks. Namely, having at least minimal > functionality and doesn't try to load an entire 600mb wav into RAM... If you could make it run a dedicated DSP, say a Motorola 56001, you'd have something. Oh, wait -- I'm awfully close to a product description for Sonic! > And I can't get to that site. Bah. That one, or the snd site? Just search for snd or CCRMA -- I think it's at http://ccrma.stanford.edu/ but Google will know. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Fri Jun 8 20:51:58 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor References: <200106082213.f58MDBK26019@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B21813E.5FF73256@steinerpoint.com> > From: Phil Mendelsohn > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > > Two years ago I wrote some command line tools for editing RIFF/WAV files. > > You can mix, fade, silence fill, and chop files. > > Hey, that's fun -- I might like to peek at 'em too, if it weren't a > problem. Did you scale things before mixing, or just do it quick and > dirty? How adjustable is the envelope on fades, or did you just do a > linear slope? > > From: "Miller, John" > I would also be interested in them. Let me slap a copyright and GPL license on them I will send them out to you. No scaling (I wanted to add utilities to do that but we did not need them for our project back then). Just a linear slop to fade or cross-fade from one clip to the next. (What curve is best for a fade--an S curve that is smooth and flat at each end?) This only supports RIFF/WAVE PCM format. Hope that is what you need. I don't know about all the different audio file formats. -- Al From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 8 21:26:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: <3B21813E.5FF73256@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > Let me slap a copyright and GPL license on them I will send them out to you. Cool. > No scaling (I wanted to add utilities to do that but we did not need them for > our project back then). Just a linear slop to fade or cross-fade from one > clip to the next. (What curve is best for a fade--an S curve that is smooth > and flat at each end?) That's a good start. There are several different kinds, each with their own merits. For general purpose use, a (cos x + 1)/2 envelope -- with fade start at t=0 and set the desired endpoint to be Pi/2. Then interpolate your sample points and VIOLA!, a nice smooth S-curve, smooth and flat at each end. (And the derivatives are continuous and zero at the endpoints too! The ear will catch discontinuities in the derivatives of that sort of thing _real_ fast.) > This only supports RIFF/WAVE PCM format. Hope that is what you need. I don't > know about all the different audio file formats. There are utils for conversion. Same concept -- the punctuation just changes. There are more fun things to write, eh? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From andy at theasis.com Fri Jun 8 21:28:31 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: <3B21813E.5FF73256@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: > No scaling (I wanted to add utilities to do that but we did not need them for > our project back then). Just a linear slop to fade or cross-fade from one > clip to the next. (What curve is best for a fade--an S curve that is smooth > and flat at each end?) What's the scale? Since dB is defined in terms of Psychophysics, and it's a log (ratio) scale, I think you want something akin to linear on a log scale. That means linear in terms of dB, but it's not clear to me what physical property you're actually attenuating (power? voltage?) Andy > -- Al From andy at theasis.com Fri Jun 8 21:30:06 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > That's a good start. There are several different kinds, each with their > own merits. For general purpose use, a (cos x + 1)/2 envelope -- with What's 'x' (units)? Andy From mend0070 at umn.edu Sat Jun 9 00:45:53 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor Message-ID: <200106090545.AAA07297@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 8 Jun 2001, andy@theasis.com is alleged to have said: > > No scaling (I wanted to add utilities to do that but we did not need them > for > > our project back then). Just a linear slop to fade or cross-fade from one > > clip to the next. (What curve is best for a fade--an S curve that is > smooth > > and flat at each end?) > > What's the scale? > > Since dB is defined in terms of Psychophysics, and it's a log (ratio) > scale, I think you want something akin to linear on a log scale. That > means linear in terms of dB, but it's not clear to me what physical > property you're actually attenuating (power? voltage?) Whoa -- hold up, Hoss! It's way easier than that. When you are mixing, i.e., adding signals, you have a maximum value for each sample. So, generally, you scale back each input source to give it room to add them together. Typically, you reduce each signal by 6dB, so that if you ever have a point where both signals are at full maximum value, the resulting sum will not overload the system. Now decibels are not anything as far as Psychophysics -- whatever that is! ;) -- decibels are simply one tenth of a bel, which is a unit of relative change. They are very handy for electrical, acoustical, and a couple of other log scale measurements, but you could just as easily say that Joe who makes $20k/year earns 6dB$ less than Sue who makes $40k/year. You have to specify the units, which in this case are understood to be dBFS (decibels w.r.t. Full Scale -- whatever $MAXVALUE is for your wordlength.) Does that make it make more sense? Phil From mend0070 at umn.edu Sat Jun 9 00:50:51 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor Message-ID: <200106090550.AAA07338@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 8 Jun 2001, andy@theasis.com is alleged to have said: > > > > That's a good start. There are several different kinds, each with their > > own merits. For general purpose use, a (cos x + 1)/2 envelope -- with > > What's 'x' (units)? Your amplitude envelope is a bunch of coefficients that multiply the sample values in the region where you're fading. So set up an array, let n be the number of samples in the region you want to fade, and x is an index from 1 to n. Multiply the old samples by the coefficient given by the above, and you've got your fade. Better? From jack at jacku.com Sat Jun 9 05:11:54 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01060905115400.01762@geezer> [Disclaimer: I haven't done a lot (any really) Java programming recently. So take any suggestions in that light.] Have you tried IBM's Visual Age for Java? I suspect its like Forte slow. As far as IDE editor/compilers I tried jikes a while back and it seemed to work. I don't know if/what debugging facility provides. I think its listed on freshmeat. If not try C|net's download.com. Jack On Friday 08 June 2001 15:26, you wrote: > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > Anything I'm missing? From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 9 05:56:09 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <200106082213.f58MD2K25985@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > Anything I'm missing? A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ JSwat is an "extensible, standalone, graphical Java debugger front-end, written to use the Java Platform Debugger Architecture (JPDA) package provided by JavaSoft." Haven't tried it myself yet, but it looks pretty decent. (Also not sure whether anyone else has already mentioned it, since I'm subscribed to tclug-list in digest mode.) Joel --- defenestrate tr. v. To throw out of a window. From andy at theasis.com Sat Jun 9 06:36:26 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: <200106090545.AAA07297@www7.mail.umn.edu> Message-ID: > Now decibels are not anything as far as Psychophysics -- whatever that is! OK, what I was referring to is a (possibly manufactured) recollection of a correspondence between 1 dB and the minimum difference detectible by human audio perceptual apparatus. Psychophysics is concerned with the translation of perceived differences into "actual" differences. I.e., how much more amplification (power) do you have to apply to make something seem twice as loud, or twice as bright. How much more weight to seem twice as heavy. Note I'm putting things in terms of ratios. > ;) -- decibels are simply one tenth of a bel, which is a unit of relative > change. They are very handy for electrical, acoustical, and a couple of > other log scale measurements, Keep in mind that there is in fact always a reference against which to compare any sound that hits an eardrum or a microphone membrane: the sound pressure level caused by air molecules bouncing around on the membrane. This baseline becomes, in effect, the tared 0 point, because both inner ear pressures are equalized in terms of that. (Aside: I've not yet successfully thought through how this translates to pressure on either side of a microphone membrane.) If you've ever stepped into an anechoic chamber you know what I'm getting at. Anyway, the above correspondence I mentioned does exist, but it may be true that it just happened to work out that 1dB over background is pretty close to the minimum detectible change in sound pressure level. OTOH, I'm probably just wrong. I'll have to go check on that one. > but you could just as easily say that Joe who > makes $20k/year earns 6dB$ less than Sue who makes $40k/year. I think I disagree. First, I think it has to refer to power. I guess you can make a case to call $ power, but that's rather a departure from what the Bell Labs folk were addressing. Really, though, as soon as you get outside of power (into Voltage or Sound Pressure), you're dealing with additional translations. Also I think you want to say s/6/3/ dB, since log10(2) = .301, meaning a doubling of _power_ (or $) is 3.01 ~ 3 dB. Um... Remember that power is proportional to (voltage)^2, so using 6dB would be appropriate if you were talking about voltage instead of power -- a doubling of voltage is a 6dB increase or a power ratio of 4. > You have to specify the units, which in this case are understood to be > dBFS (decibels w.r.t. Full Scale -- whatever $MAXVALUE is for your > wordlength.) Ahh, ok. Except the part of being understood. As mentioned above, my inclination is not to reference Full Scale by default. > Does that make it make more sense? That last part does clarify it quite a bit. Also you did force me to think hard enough to organize the ratio thing a bit more. But the power vs. voltage thing still leaves me wondering how this software is operating on the sampled signal in the .wav. Andy > Phil From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Sat Jun 9 09:33:26 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA or USB / serial port References: <200106091312.f59DCGK08322@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B2233B6.C9E95F0B@steinerpoint.com> andy@theasis.com wrote" > Someone mentioned earlier that one option is to do USB <--> serial. I'm > interested in any reports of success with these devices. Go to www.linux-usb.org and follow the link to supported devices and look at the serial driver. There are drivers for several USB to serial converters. I have used (and worked on) the drivers for the Keyspan PDA adapter (keyspan_pda.o) and the Digi Acceleport adapter (digi_acceleport.o). These both work, but the Digi device is no longer manufactured, and the Keyspan driver has somewhat limited functionality. The supported drivers page will give you an idea of what other people got to work. > I suspect you need 2.4 kernel, right? The latest 2.2 kernels also have USB support now. > Anecdote: I tried a USB <--> SCSI adapter for a Scanner, and got it to > "work", but it was all messed up with timings or something, and would > output inconsistent junk (e.g., separated RGB colors, messed up image, > etc.). The core Linux USB driver is pretty solid, but the drivers for individual devices are of varying quality--in my limited experience. -- Al From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 9 12:21:23 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <006e01c0f108$9bbcd4d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> IBM Visual Age Java has a good debugger, but that's the only thing of merit in the tool. However, you cannot use the debugger without importing your code into the tool's repository. The import process can take a long time if you have a lot of code - many minutes. Additionlly, I do not think the tool has been ported to linux, but I could be wrong. BTW, I also need a good debugger for Java. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > Anything I'm missing? > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 9 12:25:41 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <007801c0f109$3516a4d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> The command line debugger got better in the 1.3 release. Now it actually displays the current source line after you step. Egads! I've never seen the emacs jdb mode work very well. I never downloaded anything though, not have I heard of "jde". I just used the mode that comes standard with 20.6.1. M-X jdb Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill (kethry@winternet.com): > > Can you run the Sun command line debugger? > > ick. that is why I said a -good- debugger. :-) Like gdb. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 9 10:43:24 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010609104324.41f96511.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. [snip] > Anything I'm missing? I haven't tried it, but you can take a look SGI's Jessie: http://oss.sgi.com/projects/jessie/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ "Thank You. Please Come / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Again." -- Apu \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010609/8f2771f6/attachment.pgp From jspinti at mn.rr.com Fri Jun 8 19:25:43 2001 From: jspinti at mn.rr.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VMware crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01060819254300.01455@pii400> On Friday 08 June 2001 13:58, you wrote: > I'm tinkering around with VMware, running Win98 inside of a virtual > machine for a few odds and ends. Well, the machine I'm running this on is > not well suited to be doing this, and Vmware sometimes crashes if I ask > too much from Windows. The problem is that when VMware crashes, a lot > comes with it. Xwindows (4.0.x) crashes, and oddly enough, my GATEWAY > machine loses its conencton to the internet. I've got a linux box acting > as a router on my cable modem. The only way to re-establish the internet > connection is to COLD boot the linux box and reset the cable modem. Any > ideas why this happens? > > TIA, > Brian > I have noticed a lot of lag time if I am running something inside the VMware machine that is accessing the network. It causes my Internet to time out and my POP server e-mail to come back with a host not found. I haven't actually crashed the gateway (an NT 4.0 SP6a server), even when the virtual machine crashes. Once I close down the virtual machine, everything returns to normal. I think it is at least partially tied to the fact that the virtual machine and the Linux box are time sharing the ethernet card. (Arpwatch on my Samba server--delta times on flip flop in the neighborhood of .5 seconds--462 e-mails in about an hour!) What was interesting to me was that PCanywhere worked across the Internet to my work, even when my other Internet stuff was timing out and my network saves in the virtual machine were hanging. I haven't taken the time to access VMware's knowledge base yet, but that was going to be my next step. -- James Spinti jspinti@mn.rr.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 9 11:05:54 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Now decibels are not anything as far as Psychophysics -- whatever that is! > > OK, what I was referring to is a (possibly manufactured) recollection of a > correspondence between 1 dB and the minimum difference detectible by human > audio perceptual apparatus. JND is measured in dB, that's all. > > ;) -- decibels are simply one tenth of a bel, which is a unit of relative > > change. They are very handy for electrical, acoustical, and a couple of > > other log scale measurements, > > Keep in mind that there is in fact always a reference against which to > compare any sound that hits an eardrum or a microphone membrane: the > sound pressure level caused by air molecules bouncing around on the > membrane. See below. You don't have to use them to measure sound. > Anyway, the above correspondence I mentioned does exist, but it may be > true that it just happened to work out that 1dB over background is pretty > close to the minimum detectible change in sound pressure level. OTOH, I'm > probably just wrong. I'll have to go check on that one. Not necessarily. It's just that JND has to specify the conditions. You can blow those conditions right out of the water with a strategic small change in environment. In any case, decibels just simply are never *defined* in terms of JND, JND is measured in dB. There are lot's of books to look at for confirmation. > > but you could just as easily say that Joe who > > makes $20k/year earns 6dB$ less than Sue who makes $40k/year. > > I think I disagree. First, I think it has to refer to power. Nope. Can refer to whatever you want. Power is the most common use, however. > Really, though, as soon as you get outside of power (into Voltage or > Sound Pressure), you're dealing with additional translations. Sound pressure is power. Power dB is 10log(ratio.) Voltage is 20log(ratio), which comes from Ohm's law directly. Any dB measurement of signals in electronics is by convention voltage (20log). > Also I think you want to say s/6/3/ dB, since log10(2) = .301, meaning a > doubling of _power_ (or $) is 3.01 ~ 3 dB. True. > Um... Remember that power is proportional to (voltage)^2, so using 6dB > would be appropriate if you were talking about voltage instead of power -- > a doubling of voltage is a 6dB increase or a power ratio of 4. You have a lot of the right pieces, but you're trying to force a voltage situation into power. I was. :) > > You have to specify the units, which in this case are understood to be > > dBFS (decibels w.r.t. Full Scale -- whatever $MAXVALUE is for your > > wordlength.) > > Ahh, ok. Except the part of being understood. As mentioned above, my > inclination is not to reference Full Scale by default. Yeah, but you're used to inverse squared power losses in location bat recording. Audio inside electric boxes should make you think 20log ratios, and digital should make you think dBFS as one of the major idioms. Analog signals should make you think voltage as dBV (0dB = 1V RMS into 600 ohms), dBu(pure voltage, ref level 1V, IIRC), or the most popular, dBm (*voltage* referenced to 1mW of power through 600 ohms.) > > Does that make it make more sense? > > That last part does clarify it quite a bit. Also you did force me to think > hard enough to organize the ratio thing a bit more. But the power > vs. voltage thing still leaves me wondering how this software is operating > on the sampled signal in the .wav. Correctly! I'll bring a book the next time we get together. It's a little bit confusing until you sort out all the different dB scales. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 9 13:36:50 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux References: Message-ID: <00a001c0f113$2608afb0$0300000a@anelginanalas> I downloaded jswat and it looks super-ripfurry cool, however I can't get it to work. :( It keeps crashing, complaining it can't find my class, or exiting without purpose. I'll keep trying. Has anyone had better luck? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel T Schneider" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:56 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > > > Anything I'm missing? > > A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ > http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ > > JSwat is an "extensible, standalone, graphical Java debugger front-end, > written to use the Java Platform Debugger Architecture (JPDA) package > provided by JavaSoft." Haven't tried it myself yet, but it looks pretty > decent. (Also not sure whether anyone else has already mentioned it, > since I'm subscribed to tclug-list in digest mode.) > > Joel > > --- > defenestrate tr. v. To throw out of a window. > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From colin at lautverschiebung.org Sat Jun 9 11:52:45 2001 From: colin at lautverschiebung.org (colin schaub) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <006e01c0f108$9bbcd4d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <000701c0f104$9b6b7d50$0200000a@punkboynt> ibm's java ide and debugger are probably the best out there (in my opinion) - and it is available for linux, although not in the enterprise edition (group development and repository sharing). i use it on a 550mhz mandrake box with very few problems. i use VA and forte quite regularly. neither is perfect though. yes, it does require you to import all your classes into it's own workspace/repository, but it doesn't really take all that long. i work on projects with thousands of classes and once you get the hang of the OO development paradigm it's really simple overall. it's different at first because you only work on objects, down to the method level, and you never see the entire .java file. it's roots are in ibm's smalltalk ide. it's biggest downfall is that it's bloatware. huge. probably close to 300MB once extracted. and it's also often behind in it's support for the newest version of java. the coolest thing about it is that you can modify your code while in a debug process, and it just starts again at the top of the current method invocation. the demo allows for the creation of 500 classes, i think, which is often more than enough for personal use. i noticed that with the upgrade from 3.0 to 3.02, it lost the fact that it was only a demo and ended up giving me the full version. this may be the case with later versions also. colin. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bresnahan > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:21 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > > > IBM Visual Age Java has a good debugger, but that's the only > thing of merit > in the tool. However, you cannot use the debugger without importing your > code into the tool's repository. The import process can take a > long time if > you have a lot of code - many minutes. Additionlly, I do not > think the tool > has been ported to linux, but I could be wrong. > > BTW, I also need a good debugger for Java. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Tanner" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 1:26 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > > > > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > > > Anything I'm missing? > > -- > > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 9 14:13:35 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux References: <000701c0f104$9b6b7d50$0200000a@punkboynt> Message-ID: <00ab01c0f118$482642b0$0300000a@anelginanalas> > yes, it does require you to import all your classes into it's own > workspace/repository, but it doesn't really take all that long. i work on > projects with thousands of classes and once you get the hang of the OO > development paradigm it's really simple overall. it's different at first > because you only work on objects, down to the method level, and you never > see the entire .java file. it's roots are in ibm's smalltalk ide. I consider several minutes to be a long time. If you work outside the IDE and only import in order to use the debugger, several minutes to import the classes is way too long. Therefore, to use the debugger you are forced to use the entire IDE. This is the major drawback to the VA paradigm. It forces you to use only the tools it provides. Because of this it has to provide all the tools. Because of this it tries to do too much and thus doesn't do anything well. The editor is half ass. The version control is half ass. Etc, etc. Emacs is often critized for the same thing in this forum. However, unlike VA, emacs integrates with other tools and is highly configurable. I think that anyone that is attuned to open source and/or UNIX philosophies will find VA Java to their disliking. Mike From andy at theasis.com Sat Jun 9 13:28:00 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > JND is measured in dB, that's all. True enough, which is back to my original point that if your attenuation nob is notched according to ratio reductions in power, then a linear fadeout in terms of clicks (notches) per second should be reasonable, i.e., sound right. Which means it's not all that complicated. > Not necessarily. It's just that JND has to specify the conditions. You > can blow those conditions right out of the water with a strategic small Yeah, no argument there. Standard conditions are documented tho... 1kHz tone blah blah blah. > change in environment. In any case, decibels just simply are never > *defined* in terms of JND, JND is measured in dB. There are lot's of > books to look at for confirmation. Yeah, I was originally suggesting that the definition of dB relied on JND. However, my amendment was that psychophysical research had discovered the ratio to be meaningful in terms of the perceptual apparatus. I.e., JND comes out to be pretty close to 1 dB (but yeah, under certain conditions). > > > but you could just as easily say that Joe who > > > makes $20k/year earns 6dB$ less than Sue who makes $40k/year. > > > > I think I disagree. First, I think it has to refer to power. > > Nope. Can refer to whatever you want. Power is the most common use, > however. I still think such usage is a distortion; still meaningful, maybe, but really ouside of the scope of the formal definition. In other words, by definition, the number of bels is defined as the common logarithm of the ratio of two powers. Since you have references, see if the definition specifies powers. > > Um... Remember that power is proportional to (voltage)^2, so using 6dB > > would be appropriate if you were talking about voltage instead of power -- > > a doubling of voltage is a 6dB increase or a power ratio of 4. > > You have a lot of the right pieces, but you're trying to force a voltage > situation into power. I was. :) I think that's all the more reason that the definition relies on power. If you're talking about the metric of change to be voltage, you need to say so, otherwise it's not clear whether you double the stuff with 3 or with 6 dB. So what's the right relationship to use for your salary example? > Yeah, but you're used to inverse squared power losses in location bat > recording. Audio inside electric boxes should make you think 20log > ratios, and digital should make you think dBFS as one of the major > idioms. Analog signals should make you think voltage as dBV (0dB = 1V > RMS into 600 ohms), dBu(pure voltage, ref level 1V, IIRC), or the most > popular, dBm (*voltage* referenced to 1mW of power through 600 ohms.) Well, any person will likely be versed with a subset of the idioms. I *should* have been able to think in terms of bits for the digital sampling environment for .wav files, but you had to remind me. As mentioned, it's not obvious what to do with dB$. Or I'm still missing something (Highly likely). > Correctly! I'll bring a book the next time we get together. It's a > little bit confusing until you sort out all the different dB scales. They're gonna send us to a different table. Or a different bar. Andy From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 9 16:09:08 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <200106091701.f59H17K12653@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: It does seem to require JPDA (either J2SE SDK 1.3 or maybe SDK 1.2.2 plus some stuff): http://www.javasoft.com/products/jpda/ For remote debugging, it's necessary to add some special command line options to the remote java interpreter: http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/docs/howto-remote.html Joel On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 Mike Bresnahan wrote: > > I downloaded jswat and it looks super-ripfurry cool, however I can't get it > to work. :( It keeps crashing, complaining it can't find my class, or > exiting without purpose. I'll keep trying. Has anyone had better luck? > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joel T Schneider" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:56 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > > > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > > > I am really getting desperate for a -good- debugger for Java. > > > > > > I downloaded jde for emacs and the debugger is klunky and very slow. > > > > > > I went to jbuilder and it crashes on my constantly. > > > > > > I tried Forte and it's god-awful slow. > > > > > > Anything I'm missing? > > > > A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: > > > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ > > http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ > > > > JSwat is an "extensible, standalone, graphical Java debugger front-end, > > written to use the Java Platform Debugger Architecture (JPDA) package > > provided by JavaSoft." Haven't tried it myself yet, but it looks pretty > > decent. (Also not sure whether anyone else has already mentioned it, > > since I'm subscribed to tclug-list in digest mode.) > > > > Joel --- defenestrate tr. v. To throw out of a window. From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jun 9 16:17:09 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <007801c0f109$3516a4d0$0300000a@anelginanalas>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 10:25:41AM -0700 References: <20010608152614.L23128@real-time.com> <20010608153805.M23128@real-time.com> <007801c0f109$3516a4d0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <20010609161709.B3905@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Bresnahan (mike@fruitioninc.com): > The command line debugger got better in the 1.3 release. Now it actually > displays the current source line after you step. Egads! > > I've never seen the emacs jdb mode work very well. I never downloaded > anything though, not have I heard of "jde". I just used the mode that comes > standard with 20.6.1. M-X jdb jde is very nice. I put all the rpms for it and its dependancies on http://www.sf.net/rte -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 9 17:22:18 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: OT Re: [TCLUG] Re: wav editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Nope. Can refer to whatever you want. Power is the most common use, > > however. > > I still think such usage is a distortion; still meaningful, maybe, but > really ouside of the scope of the formal definition. In other words, by > definition, the number of bels is defined as the common logarithm of the > ratio of two powers. Since you have references, see if the definition > specifies powers. Yes, that is the formal definition, no question. The original paper was Martin, W. H., "Decibel: The Name for the Transmission Unit", Bell System Technical Journal, 1929. From a textbook definition, you are strictly correct. However, as you pointed out, power is proportional to voltage, so it is valid and common practice -- probably _more_ common these days, when we have active output stages driving voltage mode input amplifiers -- to pull the exponents out and talk about dB w.r.t. voltage as 20log(v_1/v_r). The main point is you have to nail down v_r, and dB has turned into just a log scale. > I think that's all the more reason that the definition relies on power. If > you're talking about the metric of change to be voltage, you need to say > so, otherwise it's not clear whether you double the stuff with 3 or with 6 > dB. So what's the right relationship to use for your salary example? If I say dBFS, I have said. I didn't originally, hence this awful little thread. ;) I'd use 6dB for the salary example, because it's potential and voltage is potential. If you were talking about money being spent, that'd probably be 10log, because it's purchasing power. But you're right -- we're getting pretty far removed from the point. > Well, any person will likely be versed with a subset of the idioms. I > *should* have been able to think in terms of bits for the digital sampling > environment for .wav files, but you had to remind me. Nah, I didn't _have_ to. That's just the kind of guy I am. :) > As mentioned, it's not obvious what to do with dB$. Or I'm still > missing something (Highly likely). No, you're just keeping me honest, after years of throwing dB around without regard for people's feelings. > > Correctly! I'll bring a book the next time we get together. It's a > > little bit confusing until you sort out all the different dB scales. > > They're gonna send us to a different table. Or a different bar. If only the library had a liquor license. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 9 23:28:40 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port forwarding newbie Q In-Reply-To: <3B1E6B8A.D5754C0C@eetc.com> Message-ID: Just a final note to tell everyone that helped that this has finally been put to bed, and pass on what the deal was so that anyone else who is thinking of embarking on a port forwarding journey can avoid this pitfall. This is *not* explicitly stated in the IPCHAINS-HOWTO, the ipchains manpage, the IP-Masquerade-HOWTO, or the ipmasqadm portfw manpage. 1: Set your input filter so the packets get through -- this sends them on to the forward rules. 2: Set the forward rules so that the packets in question are sent to the MASQ target -- i.e., in this case the rule was ipchains -A forward -p tcp -s 0/0 1024: -d 80 -j MASQ 3: This sends them to the portforwarder, and you use ipmasqadm (if you're not on 2.4 and iptables) as ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L 80 -R 80 4: Make sure your output filter will pass things through. The trick is the -j MASQ in the forward section sends it to the forwarding rules. Also, note that it's -p tcp in ipchains and -P tcp in ipmasqadm. So the thing that isn't well communicated is that forwarding and ipchains communicate with a gozinta and gozotta that is enabled by a selective switch using -j MASQ. You guys are great, you gave me all the right pieces. Thanks. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Sun Jun 10 01:14:03 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: ; from jts@tc.umn.edu on Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 05:56:09AM -0500 References: <200106082213.f58MD2K25985@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010610011403.F4927@real-time.com> Quoting Joel T Schneider (jts@tc.umn.edu): > A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ > http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ jswat rocks. It's the best java debugger I have found. It makes debugging tomcat and enhydra application simple. I liked it so much, I made an rpm for it. http://www.sf.net/projects/rte Look for jswat. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Sun Jun 10 01:42:10 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: ; from jts@tc.umn.edu on Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 05:56:09AM -0500 References: <200106082213.f58MD2K25985@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010610014210.G4927@real-time.com> Quoting Joel T Schneider (jts@tc.umn.edu): > A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ > http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ Ok, I know I have said this, but jswat really is good. It might be because it's 1:40 in the morning or because I have been using stdout debugging for so long I forgot what a good debugger is, but I have squashed more bugs in 1 night of coding then I could have hoped for. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mike at fruitioninc.com Sun Jun 10 14:45:57 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux References: <200106082213.f58MD2K25985@sprite.real-time.com> <20010610014210.G4927@real-time.com> Message-ID: <00cd01c0f1e5$f835bcd0$0300000a@anelginanalas> You got jswat to work for you? I gave up on it and switched to Forte. When I finally got to a point I could step through my Swing app, it jumped from line to line seamingly randomly. Did you do anything special? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux > Quoting Joel T Schneider (jts@tc.umn.edu): > > A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: > > > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ > > http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ > > Ok, I know I have said this, but jswat really is good. > > It might be because it's 1:40 in the morning or because I have been using stdout > debugging for so long I forgot what a good debugger is, but I have squashed more > bugs in 1 night of coding then I could have hoped for. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbullock at ringworld.org Sun Jun 10 12:51:53 2001 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin R. Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI 2 cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Any particular favorite local suppliers for the above (the micro 50-pin > connectors)? Dexis has good ones. They aren't any cheaper than anywhere else, but at least you know the manufacturer (also see computercable.com, I believe - that's their division that makes the cables). Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sun Jun 10 13:07:27 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI 2 cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This ain't local, but its cheap and fast. Pi manufacturing www.pimfg.com I had a scsi 68pin to db25 made for only about 6 bucks. They charge 2 bucks extra for orders under 100. They have lots of other cool stuff too. Colin Kilbane From kbullock at ringworld.org Sun Jun 10 12:30:56 2001 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin R. Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: <3B20D485.302B270D@innoveda.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Seth Bernsen wrote: > mike hicks wrote: > > Before you su run "xhost +". If you've already su'ed, you can run xhost > + in another window and it should also work. Then make sure your > DISPLAY environment variable is set correctly, for csh: > > setenv DISPLAY :0.0 Do something like this, but DO NOT use xhost +. Instead, use 'xhost +local:' to allow non-TCP local X connections. Do that, and then you can just do an 'export DISPLAY=:0' (for bourne shells). Or do like zibby says and use sudo. Sudo is your friend. Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jun 10 13:18:49 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root In-Reply-To: ; from kbullock@ringworld.org on Sun, Jun 10, 2001 at 12:30:56PM -0500 References: <3B20D485.302B270D@innoveda.com> Message-ID: <20010610131849.G23649@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jun 10, 2001 at 12:30:56PM -0500, Kevin R. Bullock wrote: > Or do like zibby says and use sudo. Sudo is your friend. I dunno about that. sudo is good for multi-admin environments, but even then, I'm wary of having multiple privileged accounts. (Without sudo: Attacker must figure out both my password and the root password. With sudo: my password has (hopefully limited-use) root capabilities. Figuring out the root password is not necessary.) Multilayered security is a Good Thing. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From tanner at real-time.com Sun Jun 10 18:42:20 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <00cd01c0f1e5$f835bcd0$0300000a@anelginanalas>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Sun, Jun 10, 2001 at 12:45:57PM -0700 References: <200106082213.f58MD2K25985@sprite.real-time.com> <20010610014210.G4927@real-time.com> <00cd01c0f1e5$f835bcd0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <20010610184220.A4257@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Bresnahan (mike@fruitioninc.com): > You got jswat to work for you? I gave up on it and switched to Forte. When > I finally got to a point I could step through my Swing app, it jumped from > line to line seamingly randomly. Did you do anything special? I am doing remote debugging. If that matters. bigdevel is my development machine at the office borca is my puny p75 at home :-P Because borca is so slow, I do all my development on bigdevel and just display stuff back to punydesktop thru a ssh tunnel. So, on bigdevel, I start my java application I want to debug like this (I split the lines our for readability): ${JAVA} \ -classic \ -cp "${APPCLASSPATH}" \ -Xdebug -Xnoagent -Djava.compiler=NONE \ -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n \ com.realtime.application.main \ "./conf/servlet/servlet.conf" Of course replace ${JAVA} with your favorite jvm. I personally recommend IBMJava2-SDK-1.3-8.0, the url is the rpm of jswat (http://www.sf.net/projects/rte). Now, I tried running jswat on bigdevel, display it back to borca, but 128K ISDN link makes this way to slow, so I installed jswat on punydesktop. Run jswat, if you got the rpm, it will be: % /usr/bin/jswat It will kick up a gui window. In the command window, do this: sourcepath /home/tanner/java/src Use your appropriate sourcepath, if you want to debug the jdk libs, include them as well like this: sourcepath /home/tanner/java/src:/opt/IBMJava2-13/src Then attach to the remote vm (your application you started above). In the command window type: attach bigdevel: The will be given to you when you run your application. You should see something like this: Listening for transport dt_socket at address: 1911 That's it. It totally rocks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From seg at haxxed.com Mon Jun 11 05:26:39 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] can't run GUI apps as root References: <3B20D485.302B270D@innoveda.com> <20010610131849.G23649@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B249CDF.C4A71BB2@haxxed.com> > I dunno about that. sudo is good for multi-admin environments, but even > then, I'm wary of having multiple privileged accounts. (Without sudo: > Attacker must figure out both my password and the root password. With sudo: > my password has (hopefully limited-use) root capabilities. Figuring out the > root password is not necessary.) And run LIDS so even root has limited capability... I love you LIDS... From jpschewe at mtu.net Mon Jun 11 08:12:20 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: References: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> <20010507164442.1cc2e3ce.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: Jon Schewe writes: > "Bill Layer" writes: > > > On 07 May 2001 15:30:02 -0500 > > "Jon Schewe" wrote: > > > > > Unfortunatly I've got the JE driver compiled in, not the VIA driver and > > it's > > > still busted. > > > > > > That's the problem - you want the VIA driver, *not* the JE... > > Ok, got it in. I can now backup my visor just fine. However when I try and > install anything pilot-xfer just hangs and the visor times out. I really > don't want to go back to 2.2.x, but I might have to at this rate. > Well I figured it out. Unforunatly Bill, you don't want the VIA driver. I just emailed the author of the visor driver and he states it only works with the usb-uhci.o driver, not uhci.o driver. Now that I've got them all compiled as modules and I've insmoded them, everything works. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jun 11 09:55:37 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: PCMCIA or USB / serial port In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > Someone mentioned earlier that one option is to do USB <--> serial. I'm > interested in any reports of success with these devices. I'm thinking in > particular of using it for a GPS unit, since all of those I know of still > use serial, but my vaio laptop requires a klunky port replicator to do > serial. > > I suspect you need 2.4 kernel, right? According to the Linux USB mailing list, a bunch of them work just fine, with 2.2.19 or 2.4. Check out www.linux-usb.org.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jts at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 11 10:52:26 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java IDEs for linux In-Reply-To: <200106101701.f5AH12K02010@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Joel T Schneider (jts@tc.umn.edu): > > A while ago, I bookmarked the open-source JSwat Java debugger: > > > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/jswat/ > > http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/ > > Ok, I know I have said this, but jswat really is good. > > It might be because it's 1:40 in the morning or because I have been > using stdout debugging for so long I forgot what a good debugger is, but > I have squashed more bugs in 1 night of coding then I could have hoped > for. Thanks for the info; I'll have to add JSwat to my toolbox now. Sometimes all you really want is a good debugger, not a big bloated IDE... Joel --- defenestrate tr. v. To throw out of a window. From blayer at qwest.net Mon Jun 11 10:54:15 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) In-Reply-To: References: <20010506195723.745560fc.blayer@qwest.net> <20010507164442.1cc2e3ce.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010611105415.7790084d.blayer@qwest.net> On 11 Jun 2001 08:12:20 -0500 "Jon Schewe" wrote: > Jon Schewe writes: > Well I figured it out. Unforunatly Bill, you don't want the VIA driver. I > just emailed the author of the visor driver and he states it only works with > the usb-uhci.o driver, not uhci.o driver. Now that I've got them all compiled > as modules and I've insmoded them, everything works. Err, and usb-uhci *isn't* the VIA driver?!? It says so in 'menuconfig', & it seems to work fine with my controller... Just to confirm, it is the driver I am currently using. So, what exactly is the diff between the uhci and usb-uhci (seeing as they are BOTH usb drivers)? What is JE? -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From fertch at mninter.net Mon Jun 11 11:05:22 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on setup Message-ID: <3B24EC42.6616E725@mninter.net> I don't know if I should call this an intriguing opportunity, or the world's largest headache right now. Here's what I've got going on as a project for work: A client of ours uses Linux in a thin-client environment. Setup procedures I have no idea what it really looks like. I was handed our "support machine" to match their configuration as best as possible to try and get configured after it's been sitting for a year and a half. The reason it was disconnected and not used is because we've moved. At the time of the move, our whole network scenario was changed as well. What I've got sitting in front of me is an IBM thin-client (type 8362-A52) that's supposed to hit against a server (Toshiba desktop boot device in this case) that's running RH 5.0. Which then in turn hits against another server running our product. Or rather, so I'm told this is how it's supposed to go. Okay, so I've not played around on a Red Hat box before and don't know if I can change this to a newer version or distro. Anyone play around with a scenario like this, and what can I expect? Shawn From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jun 11 12:01:42 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on setup In-Reply-To: <3B24EC42.6616E725@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Shawn wrote: > What I've got sitting in front of me is an IBM thin-client (type > 8362-A52) that's supposed to hit against a server (Toshiba desktop boot > device in this case) that's running RH 5.0. Which then in turn hits > against another server running our product. Or rather, so I'm told this > is how it's supposed to go. > > Okay, so I've not played around on a Red Hat box before and don't know > if I can change this to a newer version or distro. Anyone play around > with a scenario like this, and what can I expect? All depends on the software that's being used. Are the thinclients using BOOTP/DHCP to boot up, or are they Xterms? Does the Toshiba box actually run the application at all, or does it just provide a gateway to your application server? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Mon Jun 11 12:25:45 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB, visor and linux (FIX!) References: <200106111701.f5BH1pK26086@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B24FF19.4A19F4B3@steinerpoint.com> Bill Layer wrote: > Err, and usb-uhci *isn't* the VIA driver?!? It says so in 'menuconfig', & > it seems to work fine with my controller... Just to confirm, it is the > driver I am currently using. So, what exactly is the diff between the uhci > and usb-uhci (seeing as they are BOTH usb drivers)? What is JE? There are two UHCI USB host controller drivers: usb-uhci.o and uhci.o. They both do the same thing, use on or the other. With some hardware, drivers, or situations one works better than the other, you just have to try them both out. (The host controller handles the computer's side of the USB bus; the individual USB device drivers depend on the host controller driver to do the work of managing all communication on the USB bus. There are also different hardward standards, UHCI and OHCI, so there is also one OHCI driver and these two UHCI drivers.) There has been long discussion about just using one, but there are still situations where one is better than the other, so there is always someone who objects to getting rid of either one. JE stands for Johannes Erdfelt the author/maintainer of the uhci.o driver; this one has also been called the alternate uhci driver. It was actually first, then usb-uhci.o was a rewrite from scratch, but Johannes offered to maintain the original. I have been out of the USB stuff for a while now; it sounds like the usb-uhci driver is sometimes called the VIA driver, perhaps because it works better with VIA chipsets??? Sorry I am not up to date on this. -- Al From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon Jun 11 13:38:29 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992284709.3b25102542a7e@dragon> Hey, As soon as I get home today, the order will be closed, perhaps forever! If any of you are waiting for the last minute, this is pretty much it. I'll send Loki the list tonight. If they approve it, I'll as you all to mail me checks/MOs/whatever, which I won't deposit until everyone has sent theirs in and I'm sending my CC over to loki. -Yaron -- From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 11 13:57:50 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some more Anti-MSness Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/11074.html But the paranoia is setting in as Bill weighs up a prospective alliance with Sun Microsystems. "There is no reason for them to do any of this except to attack Microsoft. Using SUN [sic] is just declaring war on us. The Nokia CEO seemed to appreciate how hardcore I was on this." | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From andy at theasis.com Mon Jun 11 14:08:19 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: <992284709.3b25102542a7e@dragon> Message-ID: Yaron, do you accept PayPal? Also not that I'm still willing to use my CC, if that helps at all. Andy On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hey, > > As soon as I get home today, the order will be closed, perhaps forever! If any > of you are waiting for the last minute, this is pretty much it. > > I'll send Loki the list tonight. If they approve it, I'll as you all to mail me > checks/MOs/whatever, which I won't deposit until everyone has sent theirs in > and I'm sending my CC over to loki. > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon Jun 11 14:14:47 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992286887.3b2518a70ec5f@dragon> Hey, Quoting andy@theasis.com: > Yaron, do you accept PayPal? Nope. I tried to set that up once and it got all screwed up, and I needed to change my bank account. > Also not that I'm still willing to use my CC, if that helps at all. I assume that's "note" (: I know, thanks. But if we do this pay-in-advance I really don't have a problem using mine. How many people woul've used PayPal if it was available? -Yaron -- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Jun 11 14:34:06 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: <992286887.3b2518a70ec5f@dragon>; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 02:14:47PM -0500 References: <992286887.3b2518a70ec5f@dragon> Message-ID: <20010611143406.A14167@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 02:14:47PM -0500, jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > How many people woul've used PayPal if it was available? I would, if it were cost-competive with a check. But for amounts like these Paypal will charge you ~2%. So either you'd have to add the 2% on top ( and then I'd send a check ;) ) or you'd get hosed :( . -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 11 14:35:28 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: <992286887.3b2518a70ec5f@dragon> Message-ID: > How many people woul've used PayPal if it was available? I would have, no biggie though, I think I still remember how to write a check and send snail mail... :) | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From joel at luths.net Mon Jun 11 15:20:59 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some more Anti-MSness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992290859.3b25282b53038@www.luths.net> What about Symbian's Freedom to Innovate? Quoting "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" : > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/11074.html > > But the paranoia is setting in as Bill weighs up a prospective alliance > with Sun Microsystems. "There is no reason for them to do any of this > except to attack Microsoft. Using SUN [sic] is just declaring war on us. > The Nokia CEO seemed to appreciate how hardcore I was on this." > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | > | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | > | Always a boom tomorrow." | > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From May_Promo at lovehomebiz.com Mon Jun 11 15:53:25 2001 From: May_Promo at lovehomebiz.com (Eric Brown) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FW: (( What do you think?))Get Started Ear... Message-ID: <20010611205325.12466.qmail@mail1.aweber.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010611/04c9bab9/attachment.html From fertch at mninter.net Mon Jun 11 13:08:12 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on setup References: Message-ID: <3B25090C.66362359@mninter.net> Nate Carlson wrote: > All depends on the software that's being used. Are the thinclients using > BOOTP/DHCP to boot up, or are they Xterms? Does the Toshiba box actually > run the application at all, or does it just provide a gateway to your > application server? The thin client has a fixed IP address I believe, and the Toshiba box is nothing more than a gateway to the application server (unix box). I need to try and find more on this, but I don't have anyone really that I can go to on the original configuration of this for more information. I have a couple of very old emails, and some flaky info to go off of, but nothing too certain on the setup of these. The other thing I found out is that the original application server is no longer in the building. IBM took it back as it was a loaner or lease or something.... From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Mon Jun 11 20:49:53 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: HA! [TCLUG] That spam In-Reply-To: <20010611205325.12466.qmail@mail1.aweber.com> Message-ID: OMG so this is really funny to me today. Out of curiosity, what the heck spawned this cr@ppy html? I can't believe that all this tag:p stuff is all FrontPage's doing. And 4,000.00 / 39 days? way to shoot low. I've got to love this one. I've got to go clean house now but I'll surely be amused while doing it. I did take out all the external references that I noticed. I'd hate to have someone's html reading e-mail client go send this guy hits. (Tho that ref to c:\windows\temp\msosomething or other was wierd) Josh __SIG__ On 11 Jun 2001, Eric Brown wrote: > > > > > > > Earn Over $4000.00 In Just 39 Days! > > > > >
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> _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 11 22:36:13 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > How many people woul've used PayPal if it was available? I'd use Paypal. -Brian From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Mon Jun 11 22:47:59 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: <992284709.3b25102542a7e@dragon> Message-ID: When are you hoping to get the cash? -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of jethro@freakzilla.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:38 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed Hey, As soon as I get home today, the order will be closed, perhaps forever! If any of you are waiting for the last minute, this is pretty much it. I'll send Loki the list tonight. If they approve it, I'll as you all to mail me checks/MOs/whatever, which I won't deposit until everyone has sent theirs in and I'm sending my CC over to loki. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 12 00:18:22 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki order about to be closed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Matthew LaBerge wrote: > When are you hoping to get the cash? Dunno. I'm waiting for Loki to actually accept the order, first, and then we'll see. I'd LIKE to think that it could be done within a week. It seems now that IF they approve our current request, it'll be around the $1000 mark. -Yaron -- From jstauffer at spscommerce.com Tue Jun 12 02:31:19 2001 From: jstauffer at spscommerce.com (James Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans Message-ID: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> I have a Slot A (AMD Athlon 500) CPU that is getting too hot. It currently has a heat sink and fan on one side, but can I added another heat sink and fan to the other side? Any other suggestions for cooling? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010612/6e6b0fe7/attachment.htm From ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com Mon Jun 11 23:31:59 2001 From: ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com (Ming) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans In-Reply-To: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> Message-ID: I would try putting in a better case fan. Just an idea though.... Jason On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, James Stauffer wrote: > I have a Slot A (AMD Athlon 500) CPU that is getting too hot. It currently > has a heat sink and fan on one side, but can I added another heat sink and > fan to the other side? Any other suggestions for cooling? > From clay at fandre.com Tue Jun 12 06:42:12 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans References: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> Message-ID: <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> > James Stauffer wrote: > > I have a Slot A (AMD Athlon 500) CPU that is getting too hot. It > currently > has a heat sink and fan on one side, but can I added another heat sink > and > fan to the other side? Any other suggestions for cooling? You might need to add some circulation to your case. The best CPU fan won't help a lot if your case isn't circulating in cool air. There are fan cards that fit into a open slot on your system and is suppose to offer 40% more cooling, and they are really quiet. More computer shops should have them. Or else buy a couple of fans and put one near the front to suck air in and one towards the back to blow air out. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 12 08:45:16 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans In-Reply-To: <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Clay Fandre wrote: > You might need to add some circulation to your case. The best CPU fan > won't help a lot if your case isn't circulating in cool air. There are > fan cards that fit into a open slot on your system and is suppose to > offer 40% more cooling, and they are really quiet. More computer shops > should have them. Or else buy a couple of fans and put one near the > front to suck air in and one towards the back to blow air out. And if you want to be wise, find a filter -- cut down something from a humidifier/dehumidifier/air conditioner, or maybe even find a nice piece of closed cell foam with small holes. Air's good, but dust doesn't help. And write a cron job to tell you to clean the filter every few weeks / months. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jurupari at geocities.com Tue Jun 12 10:06:58 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans In-Reply-To: <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <200106121507.f5CF77103970@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> > You might need to add some circulation to your case. The best CPU fan > won't help a lot if your case isn't circulating in cool air. There are > fan cards that fit into a open slot on your system and is suppose to > offer 40% more cooling, and they are really quiet. More computer shops > should have them. Or else buy a couple of fans and put one near the > front to suck air in and one towards the back to blow air out. FYI, I have seen these at Best Buy also if anyone is looking for them. From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 12 11:30:51 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62808D7@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> MicroCenter has a good selection of fans too. The general rule is to have one sucking air in at the bottom in the front of the machine, and then make sure the fan on your power supply is blowing out the back. If the power supply is sucking air in, take it apart and flip the fan around. Otherwise all of the hot air coming out of the power supply blows right on your CPU. Heat rises, so cold air in the bottom, and hot out the top is the most efficient. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike [mailto:jurupari@geocities.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:07 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans > > > > > You might need to add some circulation to your case. The > best CPU fan > > won't help a lot if your case isn't circulating in cool > air. There are > > fan cards that fit into a open slot on your system and is suppose to > > offer 40% more cooling, and they are really quiet. More > computer shops > > should have them. Or else buy a couple of fans and put one near the > > front to suck air in and one towards the back to blow air out. > > FYI, I have seen these at Best Buy also if anyone is looking for them. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From michael at mimbach.com Tue Jun 12 11:31:03 2001 From: michael at mimbach.com (Michael James Mimbach II) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raid card References: <200106121507.f5CF77103970@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <00b801c0f35d$12b90f80$0b0a800a@xtratyme.com> Hello, Im setting up a new server at work. I can not get debian to install and I have found little documentation on making a set of install floppies with the driver for the adaptec card? Anybody have any ideas? Thanks, Michael J. Mimbach II michael@mimbach.com Senior RF/Network Engineer From wilson at visi.com Tue Jun 12 11:56:37 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raid card In-Reply-To: <00b801c0f35d$12b90f80$0b0a800a@xtratyme.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Michael James Mimbach II wrote: > Im setting up a new server at work. I can not get debian to install and I > have found little documentation on making a set of install floppies with the > driver for the adaptec card? Anybody have any ideas? There is some information on the Internet somewhere about how you can create a custom set of boot floppies. I don't have my notebook with me right now or I could be more specific. Assuming that whatever linux kernel you want to use supports that card, then it should be as simple as compiling a new kernel on a separate machine and using it to replace the stock one on the boot floppies. Again, intstructions are out there and it's quite simple. I had to do the same thing with a new Compaq server our school bought a few months ago. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 12 12:33:21 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raid card Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62808DA@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> I had the same problem with a dell 4200 with the AMI megaraid card in it. The floppies did not have the driver. However, I tried booting from the CD instead, and the CD had the drivers I needed and the install then went just fine. You might wanna try the CD. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael James Mimbach II [mailto:michael@mimbach.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:31 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raid > card > > > Hello, > Im setting up a new server at work. I can not get debian to > install and I > have found little documentation on making a set of install > floppies with the > driver for the adaptec card? Anybody have any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Michael J. Mimbach II > michael@mimbach.com > Senior RF/Network Engineer > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jts at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 12 12:44:54 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raidcard In-Reply-To: <200106121701.f5CH1IK22155@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 wrote: > Hello, > Im setting up a new server at work. I can not get debian to install and I > have found little documentation on making a set of install floppies with the > driver for the adaptec card? Anybody have any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Michael J. Mimbach II > michael@mimbach.com > Senior RF/Network Engineer You might want to check out the "compact" installation diskette images: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/potato/main/disks-i386/2.2.23-2001-04-15/images-1.44/compact/ The kernel on the "compact" diskettes includes support for a variety of RAID controllers. I recently used them to install debian on an old Compaq Proliant with SMART disk array controller. Joel --- defenestrate tr. v. To throw out of a window. From ben at nerp.net Tue Jun 12 12:53:36 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raid card In-Reply-To: <00b801c0f35d$12b90f80$0b0a800a@xtratyme.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- hi mike, you might want to send to the list, a complete spec layout of the box, so we would have a better idea what the problem is Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Michael James Mimbach II wrote: > Hello, > Im setting up a new server at work. I can not get debian to install and I > have found little documentation on making a set of install floppies with the > driver for the adaptec card? Anybody have any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Michael J. Mimbach II > michael@mimbach.com > Senior RF/Network Engineer > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOyZXIctpDhsSpvgtAQHvGAQAydViXxAkk1F8weTv5Y8Wjp7I737yWBO5 AiKv2JVrEfjFOPaQ9R5Mh6kHstVqwx8WIYKEFiZoTgYdjD/qSHWZDMNRK/aL9R5K 0/TmYs0mPc5uaIzo8Jmgv1tgbLs2c+ydSb8a0n6uC8vY3fkmEP2z8/ZOF78WauFI 8GEqFagq+9w= =HVzy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zibby at ringworld.org Tue Jun 12 13:34:27 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raidcard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I you sure about the compact disks? Last time I tried booting with it I had no SCSI support what so ever. The compact disks are what you need to get a system with common hardware installed. Using the CD is your best bet, the kernel there should have everything. If you check the installation instructions ( http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-install-methods.en.html ) you may notice the link on how to replace the rescue floppy kernel. http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-boot-floppy-techinfo.en.html#s-rescue-replace-kernel Lastly you can try the extra modules for your hardware option durring the installer, but I don't think that will work when the extra module is for your hard disk controller, and I can't find the documentation for that... | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 12 14:00:29 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki: "Yes, with a 'but'". Message-ID: Hi, Ok! Loki said they have no problem with our order! Well, with the numbers, anyway. However, there's a few issues: 1) Q3A is no longer available. Apparently Loki and ID's agreement ran out (and I have my never-getting-used-anymore copy just sittign here). 2) CivCTP is on backorder, they expect it within a week though. 3) Rune will be released next week - so anyone who wants that can get it. Here's what I'd like to do: I'll email the people who confirmed, again, with your price, and my address. I would like for everyone to mail me a check or MO for the amount, which I won't deposit until Loki has taken the order and charged my CC. I'll leave the discussion on that open till tomorrow - anyone with better ideas (paypal etc) please voice them now. Loki will not accept many little payments, they want one big one. -Yaron -- From clay at fandre.com Tue Jun 12 09:06:49 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG INSTALLFEST CANCELLED!!! Message-ID: <3B2621F9.3F625854@fandre.com> The TCLUG installfest that was scheduled for June 16th has been cancelled. We will try to schedule one for August or September. If you have any questions, please send them to info@mn-linux.org. _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 12 14:07:54 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] spambots and the tclug list Message-ID: <20010612140754.D26984@real-time.com> Looks like the spambots are trying to subscribe themselves to the list. While I believe the TCLUG is popular, I don't think 50 people from hotmail.com suddenly wanted to be on our list. I am seeing similar thing from yahoo.com. What are we to do? I am no longer going to accept subscribe requests from either hotmail.com or yahoo.com. Comments, complaints, send them to be personally. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jun 12 14:54:57 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] spambots and the tclug list In-Reply-To: <20010612140754.D26984@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 02:07:54PM -0500 References: <20010612140754.D26984@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010612145457.C23916@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 02:07:54PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > >Comments, complaints, send them to be personally. Thanks. > I feel your pain Bob. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010612/445f8b69/attachment.pgp From mccloud at wiredhot.net Tue Jun 12 15:22:36 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans In-Reply-To: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> Message-ID: <3B2633BC.11350.2E0FDDC@localhost> I have two machines running the Athlon 500, both have dual fans. I dont have any problems with heat and mine are on 24/7. I suggest running dual fans and getting a case fan. Bob On 12 Jun 2001, at 2:31, James Stauffer wrote: > I have a Slot A (AMD Athlon 500) CPU that is getting too hot. It > currently has a heat sink and fan on one side, but can I added another > heat sink and fan to the other side? Any other suggestions for > cooling? > From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Tue Jun 12 17:06:54 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop References: <200106041329.f54DTAK07392@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com> I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T model, but I am open to recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If possible an older discounted or refurbished model. Is there any place in town that anyone would recommend for this? Mail order? Thanks, -- Al From clay at fandre.com Tue Jun 12 17:31:31 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] v90 modem upgrade Message-ID: <3B269843.D2CD61A4@fandre.com> So I have a couple of sportster modems that are identical, except one I flashed to v90 a couple of years ago and works great. I usually connect around 50k. Now I want to flash the other one, but can't find anything on USR's website or on the internet for this model modem. Is there a way to download the flash image off of one modem and load it onto another one? Or does somebody have the flash program for a USR Sportster 56k 00178600, model 0459? From brandon at rhinoventures.com Tue Jun 12 17:57:33 2001 From: brandon at rhinoventures.com (Brandon Freels) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: v90 modem upgrade In-Reply-To: <3B269843.D2CD61A4@fandre.com> References: <3B269843.D2CD61A4@fandre.com> Message-ID: <01061217564900.01493@dexter.rhinoventures.com> Try the http://www.56k.com website. I have had luck from time to time finding websites which have winmodem/USR flashes and drivers by starting there. On Tuesday 12 June 2001 05:31 pm: > So I have a couple of sportster modems that are identical, except one I > flashed to v90 a couple of years ago and works great. I usually connect > around 50k. Now I want to flash the other one, but can't find anything > on USR's website or on the internet for this model modem. Is there a way > to download the flash image off of one modem and load it onto another > one? Or does somebody have the flash program for a USR Sportster 56k > 00178600, model 0459? -- Domo. Ja na. Brandon Freels (brandon@rhinoventures.com, ICQ#: 2695168, Online-Gaming: Spittledung) "I'm witty naturally. I don't need quotes!" GOLEM Web Slab: http://www.rhinoventures.com/golem/ From brandon at rhinoventures.com Tue Jun 12 18:04:08 2001 From: brandon at rhinoventures.com (Brandon Freels) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop In-Reply-To: <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com> References: <200106041329.f54DTAK07392@sprite.real-time.com> <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: <01061218040802.01493@dexter.rhinoventures.com> When I time comes that I have money again (ha ha ha) I am planning to purchase a Dell Inspirion model. Saw someone had one of those (model 7500?) at a previous installfest and was very impressed with it. On Tuesday 12 June 2001 05:06 pm: > I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T model, but I am > open to recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If possible an older > discounted or refurbished model. Is there any place in town that anyone > would recommend for this? Mail order? > > Thanks, > -- Al -- Domo. Ja na. Brandon Freels (brandon@rhinoventures.com, ICQ#: 2695168, Online-Gaming: Spittledung) "I'm witty naturally. I don't need quotes!" GOLEM Web Slab: http://www.rhinoventures.com/golem/ From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 12 18:04:48 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop In-Reply-To: <01061218040802.01493@dexter.rhinoventures.com>; from brandon@rhinoventures.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 06:04:08PM -0500 References: <200106041329.f54DTAK07392@sprite.real-time.com> <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com> <01061218040802.01493@dexter.rhinoventures.com> Message-ID: <20010612180448.B18625@real-time.com> Quoting Brandon Freels (brandon@rhinoventures.com): > > When I time comes that I have money again (ha ha ha) I am planning to > purchase > a Dell Inspirion model. Saw someone had one of those (model 7500?) at a > previous installfest and was very impressed with it. Sony Vaio PCG-F590K -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 12 18:05:40 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62808E3@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> The HP Omnibook 500 series is probably the sweetest laptop I've ever used. Generally I think HP makes crap, but the Omnibook 500 (it's a slimtop) is one excellent piece of work. Linux installs and runs perfectly on it, even the sound and onboard nic works. Someone was selling some refurbs on ebay awhile back that went for $799 each (PIII 500 w/ 7.5GB drive). Oh yeah, and the best part.... It has blue leds on it for the hard drive light, and the caps and numlock. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Borchers [mailto:alborchers@steinerpoint.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:07 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop > > > I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T > model, but I am open > to > recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If possible an > older discounted or > refurbished model. Is there any place in town that anyone > would recommend for > this? Mail order? > > Thanks, > -- Al > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jun 12 18:21:12 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A62808E4@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > When I time comes that I have money again (ha ha ha) I am planning to > purchase > a Dell Inspirion model. Saw someone had one of those (model > 7500?) at a > previous installfest and was very impressed with it. We buy ALOT of dell laptops, and the general consensus among the people who have them is that they suck. We have had alot of random problems with hardware failures that required us to send them back to Dell. The sony's we have seem to work quite well, but if you drop them once they're done for, and linux support for them isn't that great depending on what model you have. Personally, I'd go with the HP Omnibook 500, I've never used or seen a nicer laptop. Check out the HP before you buy anything, you'll fall in love with it. Make sure it's the Omnibook 500 though, the other Omnibooks are kinda big and "brickish". > -----Original Message----- > From: Brandon Freels [mailto:brandon@rhinoventures.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:04 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop > > > > When I time comes that I have money again (ha ha ha) I am planning to > purchase > a Dell Inspirion model. Saw someone had one of those (model > 7500?) at a > previous installfest and was very impressed with it. > > > On Tuesday 12 June 2001 05:06 pm: > > I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T > model, but I am > > open to recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If > possible an older > > discounted or refurbished model. Is there any place in > town that anyone > > would recommend for this? Mail order? > > > > Thanks, > > -- Al > > -- > > Domo. Ja na. > > Brandon Freels > (brandon@rhinoventures.com, ICQ#: 2695168, Online-Gaming: Spittledung) > "I'm witty naturally. I don't need quotes!" > GOLEM Web Slab: http://www.rhinoventures.com/golem/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 12 18:25:25 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] setting up a debian box using the adaptec 2100s raidcard In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:34:27PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010612182524.A30228@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:34:27PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > I you sure about the compact disks? Last time I tried booting with it I > had no SCSI support what so ever. The compact disks are what you need to > get a system with common hardware installed. The compact disk set has at least NCR 53x8yy SCSI drivers. I dunno about others... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 12 18:29:11 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop In-Reply-To: <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com>; from alborchers@steinerpoint.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:06:54PM -0500 References: <200106041329.f54DTAK07392@sprite.real-time.com> <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: <20010612182911.B30228@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:06:54PM -0500, Al Borchers wrote: > I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T model, but I am open > to > recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If possible an older discounted or > refurbished model. Is there any place in town that anyone would recommend for > this? Mail order? I have a Toshiba Sattelite 2805-S401. It works great with linux: there are even drivers for the modem though I've never tried them. The next model (now on sale is S402). It runs for $2200 with a 128MB RAM/20GB HDD/15" monitor/PIII 850/... It even has a DVD/CD-RW combo. It's heavy but if you want a workhorse this is the way to go. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From andy at theasis.com Tue Jun 12 13:40:44 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop In-Reply-To: <20010612180448.B18625@real-time.com> Message-ID: > Sony Vaio PCG-F590K Bah! go for the R505. It's 4 lbs, has built-in ethernet, is not purple anymore, and the slimdock is slick. But best of all the stock battery is 4 hrs, while the double capacity is 8 hrs. Andy From dan at williamsongraphics.com Tue Jun 12 19:06:35 2001 From: dan at williamsongraphics.com (dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop Message-ID: <01061219063504.13916@morpheus.hellnet> I highly recommend a Dell Inspiron 4000. I have had nothing but good luck with it. Mandrale 8.0 runs rock solid. It came with a winmodem, but I never use it any way. From ben at nerp.net Tue Jun 12 18:54:52 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop In-Reply-To: <3B26927E.FDD113D9@steinerpoint.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I'm on my thinkpad T21 right now, runing progeny linux.. i love it. :) I'd have everything working.. except the internal modem.. but the driver is there, waiting for my lazy ass to install it. :) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Al Borchers wrote: > I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T model, but I am open > to > recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If possible an older discounted or > refurbished model. Is there any place in town that anyone would recommend for > this? Mail order? > > Thanks, > -- Al > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOyarzctpDhsSpvgtAQEvXgP/QEjnwNl4k6F0KgHiQFXQ/f+f+EYsyZ7S VIGAinEiLXoUySg6/U3xKZnVVE9ql/Ml0RP/5z6pEcfZmvDM60yz2JVVDZs2LGgD S9iqNKy9bu7bUWtyAWmOls3yKEehEzCzhR+cTbP6NUIskfAKx48EBoPGV1g1ofut 0vm21mcRSNU= =cg3o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 12 19:58:23 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Slot A CPU fans References: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3B26BAAF.5C6C4AFD@haxxed.com> > > I have a Slot A (AMD Athlon 500) CPU that is getting too hot. It > > currently > > has a heat sink and fan on one side, but can I added another heat sink > > and > > fan to the other side? Any other suggestions for cooling? An additional case fan? http://www.haxxed.com/random/mymess/nd620035.jpg From andy at theasis.com Tue Jun 12 15:09:14 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki: "Yes, with a 'but'". In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ok! Loki said they have no problem with our order! Well, with the numbers, > anyway. However, there's a few issues: > > 1) Q3A is no longer available. Apparently Loki and ID's agreement ran out > (and I have my never-getting-used-anymore copy just sittign here). > 2) CivCTP is on backorder, they expect it within a week though. > 3) Rune will be released next week - so anyone who wants that can get it. 4) The TCLUG installfest that was scheduled for June 16th has been cancelled. We will try to schedule one for August or September. Remember that we're supposed to have a "LUG Event" for the games. This is beneficial besides just following the rules: Yaron & others don't have to see the process of delivery drag out ad infinitum. So, does that mean we need to have a beer meeting sometime after delivery and hand these things off out of someone's trunk? Andy From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 12 20:09:47 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Serial console on Suns.. Message-ID: <20010612200947.06031bf0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> We got a new Sun E220R at work a few days ago. I finally powered it up today, though I had some trouble getting the serial console going, which leads to my query.. I acquired a cable (female DB9 to male DB25) that was labeled as a null modem cable and set up minicom to run at 9600, 8N1. Nothing happened. Finally, after digging all over the place for another cable, I gave up and connected that cable to another cable -- supposedly a printer extension (female DB25 to male DB25) -- and everything worked! This makes me wonder a few things. First, the serial port on a normal Sun box is a female DB25. On a PC, OTOH, it's usually a male DB9 or DB25. Why is that? It seems to imply that you don't need a null modem cable to connect a PC to a Sun, though PC<->PC and Sun<->Sun still need null modem cables. Is that true? Secondly, why would it suddenly start working with a printer cable in the middle? I guess I had left the cable disconnected for a few minutes while I was digging around, so could the port have somehow reset while nothing was connected to it? Oh yeah.. This is labeled Off Topic, though the first thing I did once I got to a console was to install Debian ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Never let school get in / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ the way of your \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) education. -- Mark Twain [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010612/c52b4455/attachment.pgp From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 12 20:57:05 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Sony Vaio PCG-F590K > > Bah! go for the R505. It's 4 lbs, has built-in ethernet, is not purple > anymore, and the slimdock is slick. But best of all the stock battery is 4 > hrs, while the double capacity is 8 hrs. Wow. Does it make toast, too? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Tue Jun 12 21:21:36 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Laptop In-Reply-To: <20010612182911.B30228@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: Toshiba satellite 2805-s-402 has the geforce2go graphics chipset, so you can play quake with the best of em. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Florin Iucha Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 6:29 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Laptop On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:06:54PM -0500, Al Borchers wrote: > I need to buy a laptop quick. Probably a Thinkpad A or T model, but I am open > to > recommendations as long as it runs Linux. If possible an older discounted or > refurbished model. Is there any place in town that anyone would recommend for > this? Mail order? I have a Toshiba Sattelite 2805-S401. It works great with linux: there are even drivers for the modem though I've never tried them. The next model (now on sale is S402). It runs for $2200 with a 128MB RAM/20GB HDD/15" monitor/PIII 850/... It even has a DVD/CD-RW combo. It's heavy but if you want a workhorse this is the way to go. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 12 21:20:26 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Wow. Does it make toast, too? Put a slice of bread next to the vents on my Tecra and it'll make toast, easily. -Yaron -- From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 12 23:26:19 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up Message-ID: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> I understand that banning yahoo.com and hotmail.com is a pain in the butt. If their abuse department would even -acknowledge- the fact that they have spammers I would lift the ban. But mail to abuse gives you the auto-gen response and they never follow up. I have even tried a phone call and got a very polite support tech who told me I have to work with the abuse department. FAQs: Q: Can't you just let me through? A: Mailman does not have a way to identify just 'you'. I can pattern match on any SMTP header, but those can be easily forged. Q: Can't you do a POP-before-SMTP hack thing? A: I could, but I don't really want to maintain a list of accounts on my server for all the TCLUG users who want to post. A: The problem where facing is not really a relaying problem, which the POP-before-SMTP thing addresses. We are facing a problem where spammers sign up for accounts en-mass and then attempt to sign those accounts up to the mailing list, so they can spam the list. All the lists we have only allow posting to the list if you are a subscriber. Q: I have -only- yahoo mail or hotmail, I can't do email anywhere else. A: I personally find that hard to believe. Neither of these services provide physical connectivity to the 'net, so you should be able to post to the list from your isp account. If your isp does not provide email/pop services, then I guess your are screwed :-) -But- what type of isp does not provide email services? Q: This sucks. (ok, not really a question) A: Yes it does. Look at it from my stand point. I deal with over 100,000 spam messages a day. As an isp we are on the front-lines of the spam war. All I ask is that you post from your isp account. Q: You suck for doing this to me. A: While it may look like I am doing this just to -you-, I am really doing it to protect the other subscribers on the list. Spam makes the list look bad. We all get enough spam already, I don't want to add to it. Spam make -me- look bad, like I cannot secure the mailing list server. But most of all, this is a democracy, and the majority rules. The majority want spam free mailing list. I am attempting to provide this. As always, I am open to comments and complaints via personal email. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Jun 12 23:44:19 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up In-Reply-To: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> Message-ID: Bob Tanner writes: > Q: I have -only- yahoo mail or hotmail, I can't do email anywhere else. > A: I personally find that hard to believe. Neither of these services > provide physical connectivity to the 'net, so you should be able to > post to the list from your isp account. If your isp does not provide > email/pop services, then I guess your are screwed :-) -But- what > type of isp does not provide email services? People who have net access only at work, but aren't allowed to use work email for personal stuff, but are allowed to use the web from work. People whose spouse, parents, housemates, etc. have DSL or cable modem service, but who do not themselves have an internet account. I'm *not* intending to argue with your decision; just pointing out the reasonable ways people could have only free email access. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From jspinti at mn.rr.com Tue Jun 12 23:47:44 2001 From: jspinti at mn.rr.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up In-Reply-To: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01061223474400.08382@pii400> On Tuesday 12 June 2001 23:26, you wrote: > Q: I have -only- yahoo mail or hotmail, I can't do email anywhere else. > A: I personally find that hard to believe. Neither of these services > provide physical connectivity to the 'net, so you should be able to post to > the list from your isp account. If your isp does not provide email/pop > services, then I guess your are screwed :-) -But- what type of isp does not > provide email services? Even if they don't, there are hundreds of free e-mail places on the web. I have 3 or 4 different IMAP accounts on different domains. The one I have had the best success with is www.burningmail.com. My daughter found it on a Linux site over a year ago. Thanks for trying to keep the list spam free. -- James Spinti jspinti@mn.rr.com From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jun 13 00:10:51 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up In-Reply-To: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:26:19PM -0500 References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010613001051.A431@minime.sistina.com> On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:26:19PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: >I understand that banning yahoo.com and hotmail.com is a pain in the butt. If >their abuse department would even -acknowledge- the fact that they have spammers >I would lift the ban. bah! To hell with it, you got my vote. Hell, this is a linux list, perhaps people could install an MTA, register a domainname and serve thier own mail. As if I don't have enough to do.... > >But mail to abuse gives you the auto-gen response and they never follow up. I >have even tried a phone call and got a very polite support tech who told me I >have to work with the abuse department. > >FAQs: > >Q: Can't you just let me through? >A: Mailman does not have a way to identify just 'you'. I can pattern > match on any SMTP header, but those can be easily forged. >Q: Can't you do a POP-before-SMTP hack thing? >A: I could, but I don't really want to maintain a list of accounts on my server > for all the TCLUG users who want to post. >A: The problem where facing is not really a relaying problem, which the > POP-before-SMTP thing addresses. We are facing a problem where spammers sign > up for accounts en-mass and then attempt to sign those accounts up to the > mailing list, so they can spam the list. All the lists we have only allow > posting to the list if you are a subscriber. >Q: I have -only- yahoo mail or hotmail, I can't do email anywhere else. >A: I personally find that hard to believe. Neither of these services provide > physical connectivity to the 'net, so you should be able to post to the list > from your isp account. If your isp does not provide email/pop services, then > I guess your are screwed :-) -But- what type of isp does not provide email > services? >Q: This sucks. (ok, not really a question) >A: Yes it does. Look at it from my stand point. I deal with over 100,000 spam > messages a day. As an isp we are on the front-lines of the spam war. All I > ask is that you post from your isp account. >Q: You suck for doing this to me. >A: While it may look like I am doing this just to -you-, I am really doing it to > protect the other subscribers on the list. Spam makes the list look bad. We > all get enough spam already, I don't want to add to it. Spam make -me- look > bad, like I cannot secure the mailing list server. But most of all, this is a > democracy, and the majority rules. The majority want spam free mailing list. > I am attempting to provide this. > >As always, I am open to comments and complaints via personal email. >-- >Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 >http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 >Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/07919301/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 13 00:22:33 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:44:19PM -0500 References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010613002232.A24157@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:44:19PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Bob Tanner writes: > > > Q: I have -only- yahoo mail or hotmail, I can't do email anywhere else. > > > A: I personally find that hard to believe. Neither of these services > > provide physical connectivity to the 'net, so you should be able to > > post to the list from your isp account. If your isp does not provide > > email/pop services, then I guess your are screwed :-) -But- what > > type of isp does not provide email services? > > People who have net access only at work, but aren't allowed to use > work email for personal stuff, but are allowed to use the web from > work. People whose spouse, parents, housemates, etc. have DSL or > cable modem service, but who do not themselves have an internet > account. I am personally using www dot crosswinds dot net and www dot xoasis dot com. Both offer SMTP/POP. Now I only hope that spammers won't read this ;) Thanks Bob for your efforts to keep the list "clean". florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jun 13 01:42:15 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> <20010613002232.A24157@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B270B47.F267E842@haxxed.com> > I am personally using www dot crosswinds dot net and www dot xoasis dot com. > Both offer SMTP/POP. Now I only hope that spammers won't read this ;) > > Thanks Bob for your efforts to keep the list "clean". I agree with the decision to block yahoo etc, but it doesn't need to be a *total* ban. I suggest if you really* need to subscribe to the list, you say call Bob up on the phone, or maybe snail mail a signed form and a copy of your photo ID... Until the spammers start going *that* far to spew there spam... From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Wed Jun 13 01:19:59 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Laptop References: <200106130524.f5D5OAK07025@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B27060F.43316A73@steinerpoint.com> Thanks for all the suggestions. I considered the IBM T22, HP Omnibook 500, and Sony R505. HP is having a sale now and that machine looks like my favorite. -- Al From ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com Tue Jun 12 23:25:26 2001 From: ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com (Ming) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy Message-ID: Just kinda curious, but how can I build a bootable floppy that will load nic drivers then run a firewall script. I would like to make the floopy write protected so if some one did compromise my system all i would have to do is reboot to close the hack. I am sure if I just put a little more thought into this I could figure it out, but its late and I am not thinking very clearly. Jason wannabelinuxadmin From rsinland at gvtel.com Wed Jun 13 07:03:36 2001 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B275698.FCA00761@gvtel.com> David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Bob Tanner writes: > > > Q: I have -only- yahoo mail or hotmail, I can't do email anywhere else. > > > A: I personally find that hard to believe. Neither of these services > > provide physical connectivity to the 'net, so you should be able to > > post to the list from your isp account. If your isp does not provide > > email/pop services, then I guess your are screwed :-) -But- what > > type of isp does not provide email services? > > People who have net access only at work, but aren't allowed to use > work email for personal stuff, but are allowed to use the web from > work. People whose spouse, parents, housemates, etc. have DSL or > cable modem service, but who do not themselves have an internet > account. > > I'm *not* intending to argue with your decision; just pointing out the > reasonable ways people could have only free email access. Some of these people should then check some of the lesser know mail services like Visto.com or Military.com (IIRC) RS From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Wed Jun 13 08:01:29 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First off you need to dump that floppy disk there. You couldn't possibly have picked a less reliable data storage medium. If *really* want to go that route then I'd suggest you install your floppy-ized distro to the hard drive and turn the floppy into an, Overwrite-the-hard-drive-with-the-standard-config floppy. Anyway, there are loads of single floppy distros out on the internet. I haven't tried any given my prejudice but you should prbably just try a few and see which ones you like. Josh __SIG__ On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Ming wrote: > > > Just kinda curious, but how can I build a bootable floppy that will load > nic drivers then run a firewall script. I would like to make the floopy > write protected so if some one did compromise my system all i would have > to do is reboot to close the hack. I am sure if I just put a little more > thought into this I could figure it out, but its late and I am not > thinking very clearly. > > > Jason > wannabelinuxadmin > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bgilbertson at stonel.com Wed Jun 13 08:09:49 2001 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy References: Message-ID: <3B27661D.7E11E34C@stonel.com> This might be a good starting point, a number of links to other sites. http://lrp.c0wz.com/ I tried Coyote a while back but had some problems-ping would give strange responses-wouldn't even ping localhost correctly. I think it was a bug in Busybox-probably fixed by now. Another one I have used and has some nice features is Eigerstein2Beta. Regards, Bob Ming wrote: > > Just kinda curious, but how can I build a bootable floppy that will load > nic drivers then run a firewall script. I would like to make the floopy > write protected so if some one did compromise my system all i would have > to do is reboot to close the hack. I am sure if I just put a little more > thought into this I could figure it out, but its late and I am not > thinking very clearly. > > Jason > wannabelinuxadmin From blayer at qwest.net Wed Jun 13 08:34:58 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: <3B27661D.7E11E34C@stonel.com> References: <3B27661D.7E11E34C@stonel.com> Message-ID: <20010613083458.5b7627eb.blayer@qwest.net> Hi, > > Just kinda curious, but how can I build a bootable floppy that will load > > nic drivers then run a firewall script. I would like to make the floopy > > write protected so if some one did compromise my system all i would have > > to do is reboot to close the hack. I am sure if I just put a little more > > thought into this I could figure it out, but its late and I am not > > thinking very clearly. This already exists; it is called floppyfw and it is both reliable and stable. http://www.zelow.no/floppyfw/ By the way... floppy disks are not all that unreliable.. the microcomputing world pretty much ran on them for a decade, and they seemed to hold up just fine, even the 5-1/4 media. However, I will give you this much: the 3.5" floppy disks mass-produced in the last few years, and frequently sold by the 50 pack for $10 are worth what you pay for them; that is, virtually nothing. Buy a quality media, run it in a clean, maintained drive, and reliability can be quite acceptable. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From dan at williamsongraphics.com Wed Jun 13 08:48:49 2001 From: dan at williamsongraphics.com (dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal Message-ID: <01061308484907.13916@morpheus.hellnet> Does anyone know if we will be charged to switch our DSL service over to another ISP if we dont want to use M$N? I checked Qwest's site, but there hasn't been any more announcements. Also, now that we are cutting down on the spam, could more people trim their posts? From andy at theasis.com Wed Jun 13 04:26:17 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <01061308484907.13916@morpheus.hellnet> Message-ID: > Does anyone know if we will be charged to switch our DSL service over to > another ISP if we dont want to use M$N? I bet your Qwest customer service rep does. Why not call or email them? Andy From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Jun 13 09:46:21 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <01061308484907.13916@morpheus.hellnet>; from dan@williamsongraphics.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:48:49AM -0500 References: <01061308484907.13916@morpheus.hellnet> Message-ID: <20010613094621.E30279@cyclone.localdomain> Well, if you're using Qwest.net now (or MSN if they've switched), Qwest (or MSN) won't charge you to switch to a different ISP, unless, of course, you've signed some sort of contract with them stating that you'd use their service for given period of time. In which case you may be breaking that contract and be subject to whatever penalties the contract stated you would be subject to if you were to break it. If no such contract exists, you could easily switch ISPs, but most ISPs charge some sort of setup fee for initiating an account with them (in my experience, it's been in the $20-$40 range), so you may have to pay _something_ to switch to a new ISP. On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:48:49AM -0500, dan wrote: > Does anyone know if we will be charged to switch our DSL service over to > another ISP if we dont want to use M$N? [snip] Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jack at jacku.com Wed Jun 13 09:53:13 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) Message-ID: <01061309531300.02100@geezer> Warning: The following was set of by an article in Network World Fusion that can be found at: http://www.nwfusion.com/columnists/2001/0604kearns.html I apologize in advance for the length and incoherence that follows. Its interesting that when Microsoft engages in a traditional marketing tactic, the "loss leader", it is "innovating". When others do it, it is unAmerican, or in Mr. Kearns' words "almost communistic". After all what difference is there between giving away a browser, to sell servers and OS licenses and giving away any type of software to sell services. What eats at Mundie, Kearns and others who have joined in the flailing of the Open Source community is that while Microsoft simple destroyed the viability of a single software category, Web Browsers on Windows, the OSS community is potentially destroying the entire multi-billion dollar software industry. While the scale may be different the tactics are not. WIth respect to licensing, a similar arguement can be made. If I license a component and distribute it with a piece of software I am bound by the limitations and restrictions of that license. If I wish not to be bound by such a license I do one of two things: I find a license that is more consistant with my distribution plans OR I write my own "work-alike" component. If I can't or don't want to do either of these I bite the bullet and live by the license of the software I want to use. Again the issue is the details not the tactics. MS and other proprietary/commodity software companies right their licenses to protect what is important to them. Authors who use the GPL and other OS licenses do so to protect what they feel is most important. So my message to those that would label the Open Source/Free Software movement "unamerican" is, "You are more like us than you think." I'm sure others will have differing opinions. Fire at will. ;-) Jack From dave at droyer.org Wed Jun 13 09:52:10 2001 From: dave at droyer.org (David Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal Message-ID: I switched over to use Bob & company (Real-time) for my DSL ISP. This was a few months ago so I don't remember the specifics. THere was probably a small service fee (maybe $25 or so) but the benefits of switching far out weighed any fee. Dave Royer On 13 Jun 2001 04:26:17 -0500, andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Does anyone know if we will be charged to switch our DSL service over to > > another ISP if we dont want to use M$N? > > I bet your Qwest customer service rep does. Why not call or email them? > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jun 13 09:59:48 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) In-Reply-To: <01061309531300.02100@geezer>; from jack@jacku.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:53:13AM -0500 References: <01061309531300.02100@geezer> Message-ID: <20010613095948.C15037@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:53:13AM -0500, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > I'm sure others will have differing opinions. Yeah, but I don't think Gates, Ballmer, or Mundie read this list. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 10:14:51 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) In-Reply-To: <20010613095948.C15037@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > I'm sure others will have differing opinions. > > Yeah, but I don't think Gates, Ballmer, or Mundie read this list. hmm... maybe we should sign them up for the digest! :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 13 10:19:42 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: ; from dave@droyer.org on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:52:10AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010613101942.A8908@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:52:10AM -0500, David Royer wrote: > I switched over to use Bob & company (Real-time) for my DSL ISP. This was > a few months ago so I don't remember the specifics. THere was probably a > small service fee (maybe $25 or so) but the benefits of switching far out > weighed any fee. > DISCLAIMER: This is not a flamebait. I have checked real-time prices: they ask $50/mo for 512K. I pay $20/mo at Qwest for "640K, guaranteed 256K" and I get 64KB downloads - that amounts to almost 512K. So I don't see any benefits for changing, unless the "K"s on real-time's page mean KiloBytes and not Kilobits. [With all apologies due to Bob,] florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From foeclan at winternet.com Wed Jun 13 10:20:32 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) In-Reply-To: <01061309531300.02100@geezer> Message-ID: Having just read the article, I find myself wondering... He got paid to write an article that short and lacking in content? Editorial or no, I would generally expect a bit more information than the 8 paragraphs he wrote. If he's going to offer a contrary opinion, he could at least back it up with something. He comes off as being contrary just for the sake of being contrary. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > Warning: The following was set of by an article in Network World Fusion that > can be found at: > > http://www.nwfusion.com/columnists/2001/0604kearns.html > > Jack From zibby at ringworld.org Wed Jun 13 10:23:24 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) In-Reply-To: <01061309531300.02100@geezer> Message-ID: In terms those spreading FUD may understand: Say I create a nifty library. Something everybody needs. Something everybody wants. But I worked very hard on it, and I want compensation for my hard work. The compensation I'm asking for: the source to any software using my library must be made available in the same fashion my source code is available. If that's asking too much, write your own library. You don't have to compensate me until you finish the project after all. Now say Microsoft creates a nifty library. Something everybody wants. Something everybody needs. But some of their staff worked very hard on it, and the company wants compensation. So they wrap it into developer kits, MFC's, etc. So you buy into these developer resources. Now that they've been compensated, you can start work on your project. Now if you go with the cancer analogy, treatment for cancer is cut it out and expensive therapy. So going by that, Linux, the GPL, LGPL, etc. are nothing more than a wart. Cut it out (the GPL Library) and let heal. (replace it with your own library.) With the MS Library, you can cut it out, but you've allready compensated Microsoft, and possibly have a continuing agreement. And since you're compiling on a MS Platform to start with, perhaps your using a MS developer suite. (Which you payed for.), with other MS libaries, developer kits, and MFCs (which, you payed for...), building on a MS Operating System (which you payed for), supported by a MS Server Operating System, (which you payed dearly for.)... | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | | Always a boom tomorrow." | From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jun 13 10:21:27 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal References: <01061308484907.13916@morpheus.hellnet> <20010613094621.E30279@cyclone.localdomain> Message-ID: <007301c0f41c$852303e0$3028680a@tgt.com> QWest charges a fee when you change ISPs for DSL, the ISP's don't unless by contract. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabe Turner" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal > Well, if you're using Qwest.net now (or MSN if they've switched), Qwest (or > MSN) won't charge you to switch to a different ISP, unless, of course, > you've signed some sort of contract with them stating that you'd use their > service for given period of time. In which case you may be breaking that > contract and be subject to whatever penalties the contract stated you would > be subject to if you were to break it. > > If no such contract exists, you could easily switch ISPs, but most ISPs > charge some sort of setup fee for initiating an account with them (in my > experience, it's been in the $20-$40 range), so you may have to pay > _something_ to switch to a new ISP. > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:48:49AM -0500, dan wrote: > > Does anyone know if we will be charged to switch our DSL service over to > > another ISP if we dont want to use M$N? > > [snip] > > Gabe > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu > SGI Origin Systems Administrator, > University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute > for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 10:29:20 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613101942.A8908@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > DISCLAIMER: This is not a flamebait. > > I have checked real-time prices: they ask $50/mo for 512K. > > I pay $20/mo at Qwest for "640K, guaranteed 256K" and I get 64KB downloads > - that amounts to almost 512K. Our web site is out of date. what we call 256k = 640k down 256k up what we call 512k = 640k down 512k up that's how qwest provisions lines now, and we don't traffic shape dsl on our end. > So I don't see any benefits for changing, unless the "K"s on real-time's page > mean KiloBytes and not Kilobits. > > [With all apologies due to Bob,] > florin > > -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 13 10:36:35 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010613103635.V21645@ringworld.org> > that's how qwest provisions lines now, and we don't traffic shape dsl on > our end. What kind of connectivity to the internet do you have, and how do you handle outbound bandwidth contengincy issues? At least you hopefully use some sort of method other than fifo to keep from one user kabashing everyones party. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/5f0850df/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 13 10:57:22 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:29:20AM -0500 References: <20010613101942.A8908@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010613105722.A16031@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:29:20AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > DISCLAIMER: This is not a flamebait. > > > > I have checked real-time prices: they ask $50/mo for 512K. > > > > I pay $20/mo at Qwest for "640K, guaranteed 256K" and I get 64KB downloads > > - that amounts to almost 512K. > > Our web site is out of date. > > what we call 256k = 640k down 256k up > what we call 512k = 640k down 512k up > > that's how qwest provisions lines now, and we don't traffic shape dsl on > our end. Well, that's definitely better. Now: how much for static IP and DNS hosting? Your web page doesn't say that either... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From cgahlon at citilink.com Wed Jun 13 11:07:21 2001 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hotmail.com, yahoo.com ban follow up References: <20010612232619.A4408@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B278FB9.A315EDED@citilink.com> Thanks for all your efforts! It really is appreciated. Chris Gahlon From Troy.Johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Jun 13 11:14:05 2001 From: Troy.Johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) Message-ID: I sent this feedback on it a couple days ago: Dear NWFusion People, I found this article shallow. Although it may be easy and popular to equate Open Source Software and communism (whether the 'c' is small or large, it is "un-american"), it does overlook that fact that communism (as is capitalism for that matter) is an approach used to distribute scarce goods and resources. Software in the age of the Internet is not a scarce resource and I don't think the description is an apt one regardless. It is hard to discern if Mr. Kearns is just being indulgent in his over the top generalization of what Open Source licensing means to a copyright holder, or if he doesn't understand it. In the end, it seems that he doesn't see that the generations that follow ours will be much more sophisticated than we with regard to computers in general, and to software in particular. When we are older, perhaps Mr. Kearns will write an article on how "We Now Live In A Geeks-Only World". Or perhaps just "Geeks-Mostly". Regards, Troy Johnson From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 11:20:50 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613105722.A16031@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Well, that's definitely better. Now: how much for static IP and DNS hosting? > Your web page doesn't say that either... I actually don't know; drop a message to sales@real-time.com, or call 952-943-8700 and ask for someone in sales. I know we offer DNS hosting for free to business users, not sure about personal/tclug.. I believe we also have a TCLUG special running with a 8-ip subnet for DSL, but I'm not positive. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 11:24:25 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613103635.V21645@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > What kind of connectivity to the internet do you have, and how do you > handle outbound bandwidth contengincy issues? At least you hopefully > use some sort of method other than fifo to keep from one user kabashing > everyones party. We've got 2 T1's (Sprint and UUNet), and do bandwidth monitoring and deal with heavy usage as it becomes a problem. (Actually haven't ever had an issue with it yet). On our Sprint link we're averaging 21.6kbytes/sec in and 40.7kbytes/sec out for the last month. On the UUNet link we're averaging 45.4kbytes/sec in, and 55.0kbytes/sec out (this is the link that gets nailed for the distributions mirrors every night.) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 13 11:30:42 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010613113041.W21645@ringworld.org> > We've got 2 T1's (Sprint and UUNet), and do bandwidth monitoring and deal > with heavy usage as it becomes a problem. (Actually haven't ever had an > issue with it yet). Ok. I've just been working with my own machine becoming a problem on a single t1. :) As a temporary measure ive been using rate-limit to limit specific services, but I'm thinking about playing with some CBQ with flow-based WRED to get it to work, mostly so the traffic off of a few machines dont totally kill the rest of the users. Sadly, we have a frame link and thats most of the problem, if it were ptp it wouldn't be a big deal. Oh well. Just was trying to gain input. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/8d2415b8/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 13 11:31:36 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010613113136.X21645@ringworld.org> * Troy Johnson [010613 11:15]: > Dear NWFusion People, I gave up on NWFusion when they talked about BGP not being good enough and not mentioning the *shitty* aggregation that some providers (cable modem providers) do. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/ce8aa8fe/attachment.pgp From mjn at umn.edu Wed Jun 13 11:42:56 2001 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My response to Kearns: Hey David! How much did uncle Billy pay you to write this crap? I hope to some day have a position of PR(under the table of course) for a tyrannical software firm's attempts to control, outright, all computer traffic and software in the world. Helping demons push their agenda and being able to pass myself off as a journalist would be quite an accomplishment; you've succeeded admirably. So tell me, is there a class i might be able to take at the local community college which informs me of how best to throw around buzz words and insults with no backing facts (not to mention content) whatsoever and still remain respectable enough to fool publishers into printing my garbage? Or do you have a PR person for that? Shared source as more "American" than a system like the GPL (which, by the way, lends itself much more easily to the traditions of co-authored innovation that has driven this country) is ridiculous. The claims that Microsoft has made and that you are backing are akin to exploiting the elderly with scare tactics. Your elderly are misinformed and impressionable execs who have little or no practical knowledge and in turn believe whatever they are told by big business reps. Who is fault is questionable too because those execs should be listening to the people who need to do the work for them and not those that are selling... Microsoft's unemphatic kowtowing to corporate heads and their attempts to woo the infantry of the computer industry by invoking "shared" and "source" is deplorable and ineffectual. Microsoft's idea of "American" is control. They wish to control what I see and hear, how i see and hear it, and how I am able to create. They succeed, and can only succeed, by force. In the Microsoft state, Microsoft decides what I need, want, find useful, etc rather than I being able to help shape those things. In the Microsoft state you are helping shape there is no room for innovation because conquest is the goal. There is no reason to improve your products when you own the market; you don't need to attract or even work to keep customers. In the Microsoft state, there is no room for elegance. In the Microsoft state, control is American and individuals pass on rights in favor of what the board decides it important...yes, you're right, it does smack of the fascist/communist bent you're unimagnitively and baselessly alluding to. You know, I am happy with the label "communist". If you can see past the history of the governmental style in the countries who have failed, it is a wonderful idea. The good of the people. I'd even make the arguement that socialist is a better word. You've labeled the GPL'd software movement as un-American. And I think agree with that too. It goes against the traditional, capatalist view of business and work and art in the United States. What I think you may have meant by un-American is non-capitalistic. American to me, be my eyes veiled in rose or not, is democracy. Democracy which is a far cry from the tyrany of oligarchy the Microsoft state would have us subject too. I think I like being a communist. PS If nwfusion is looking for writers, I am willing and, it appears, much more able. ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 11:43:10 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613113041.W21645@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > > We've got 2 T1's (Sprint and UUNet), and do bandwidth monitoring and deal > > with heavy usage as it becomes a problem. (Actually haven't ever had an > > issue with it yet). > > Ok. I've just been working with my own machine becoming a problem on a > single t1. :) As a temporary measure ive been using rate-limit to limit > specific services, but I'm thinking about playing with some CBQ with > flow-based WRED to get it to work, mostly so the traffic off of a few > machines dont totally kill the rest of the users. Sadly, we have a > frame link and thats most of the problem, if it were ptp it wouldn't be > a big deal. What kind of border router do you have? Could implement QoS at the border and set priorities there.. but that's probably what you're talking about. Doing it at the local machines would work too, but that'd mean you'd have to maintain it multiple places, and wouldn't be able to get an overall traffic picture. So why'd you go frame instead of ptp? Pricing these days isn't all that much different.. > Oh well. Just was trying to gain input. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 13 11:45:03 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 11:20:50AM -0500 References: <20010613105722.A16031@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010613114503.C16031@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 11:20:50AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Well, that's definitely better. Now: how much for static IP and DNS hosting? > > Your web page doesn't say that either... > > I actually don't know; drop a message to sales@real-time.com, or call > 952-943-8700 and ask for someone in sales. > > I know we offer DNS hosting for free to business users, not sure about > personal/tclug.. I believe we also have a TCLUG special running with a > 8-ip subnet for DSL, but I'm not positive. I think you would do a big service to your sales department if you would kick their a** a little. You might want to ask Bob for help though :) I mean - if they would spend half a day updating that web page of theirs, you would get more business. I have look a couple times in the past to that page and I have been put off by the price (which is wrong, as you told me), by lack of information (dns, ip) and stupidity (we support windows and mac). If they can't be bothered, then put a page on www.mn-linux.org with Linux friendly companies in TwinCities and put yourselves in the first row (as you rightfully deserve) and add that info somewhere... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From jts at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 13 11:48:52 2001 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: <200106131525.f5DFP3K19824@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 Ming wrote: > > Just kinda curious, but how can I build a bootable floppy that will load > nic drivers then run a firewall script. I would like to make the floopy > write protected so if some one did compromise my system all i would have > to do is reboot to close the hack. I am sure if I just put a little more > thought into this I could figure it out, but its late and I am not > thinking very clearly. > > > Jason > wannabelinuxadmin A number of alternatives: http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ http://www.linuxrouter.org/ http://coyotelinux.com/ Coyote may be the easiest to get started with, although I haven't tried it yet myself. Also of potential interest are my (old) notes on LRP: http://www.joelschneider.com/lrp/ (I did a short presentation on Linux Router Project for TCLUG about 18 months ago) Joel --- defenestrate tr. v. To throw out of a window. From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jun 13 11:49:54 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) References: Message-ID: <00df01c0f428$dff1aa40$3028680a@tgt.com> I highly doubt this sort of license could work. I cite the examples of Lesstif and Motif. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" To: "TCLUG-list" Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Rant - Open Source, Mundie, Kearns, NWF (long) > In terms those spreading FUD may understand: > > Say I create a nifty library. Something everybody needs. Something > everybody wants. But I worked very hard on it, and I want compensation for > my hard work. The compensation I'm asking for: the source to any software > using my library must be made available in the same fashion my source code > is available. If that's asking too much, write your own library. You don't > have to compensate me until you finish the project after all. > > Now say Microsoft creates a nifty library. Something everybody wants. > Something everybody needs. But some of their staff worked very hard on it, > and the company wants compensation. So they wrap it into developer kits, > MFC's, etc. So you buy into these developer resources. Now that they've > been compensated, you can start work on your project. > > Now if you go with the cancer analogy, treatment for cancer is cut it out > and expensive therapy. So going by that, Linux, the GPL, LGPL, etc. are > nothing more than a wart. Cut it out (the GPL Library) and let heal. > (replace it with your own library.) > > With the MS Library, you can cut it out, but you've allready compensated > Microsoft, and possibly have a continuing agreement. And since you're > compiling on a MS Platform to start with, perhaps your using a MS > developer suite. (Which you payed for.), with other MS libaries, developer > kits, and MFCs (which, you payed for...), building on a MS Operating > System (which you payed for), supported by a MS Server Operating System, > (which you payed dearly for.)... > > | Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 | > | http://www.ringworld.org | Work: 763.428.9119 | > | http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS: 612.306.6055 | > | Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." | > | Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. | > | Always a boom tomorrow." | > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 11:55:38 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613114503.C16031@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > I think you would do a big service to your sales department if you would > kick their a** a little. You might want to ask Bob for help though :) > > I mean - if they would spend half a day updating that web page of theirs, you > would get more business. I have look a couple times in the past to that > page and I have been put off by the price (which is wrong, as you told me), > by lack of information (dns, ip) and stupidity (we support windows and mac). Yeah, we are actually already in the process of redesigning our entire web site to make it.. well, usable, and accurate. But, I've forwarded your complaints on to the proper person anyways. :) > If they can't be bothered, then put a page on www.mn-linux.org with Linux > friendly companies in TwinCities and put yourselves in the first row (as you > rightfully deserve) and add that info somewhere... This is actually a good idea anyways.. I'm sure we're not the only linux-friendly ISP in the area, and it'd be a good resource for anyone looking for Linux help locally. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 13 12:16:08 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010613121607.Y21645@ringworld.org> * Nate Carlson [010613 11:45]: > Could implement QoS at the border and set priorities there.. but that's > probably what you're talking about. Doing it at the local machines would Cisco 4500M router. Its a nice sucker for a t1. :) I have problems getting it to ever go over 10-15% cpu usage. > So why'd you go frame instead of ptp? Pricing these days isn't all that > much different.. PTP over LATTAS(sp?) is really expensive. :) Frame is the only way to really keep the cost down. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/47bf8700/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 13:21:40 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613101942.A8908@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:19:42AM -0500 References: <20010613101942.A8908@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010613132140.L18625@real-time.com> Quoting Florin Iucha (florin@iucha.net): > I have checked real-time prices: they ask $50/mo for 512K. > > I pay $20/mo at Qwest for "640K, guaranteed 256K" and I get 64KB downloads > - that amounts to almost 512K. > > So I don't see any benefits for changing, unless the "K"s on real-time's page > mean KiloBytes and not Kilobits. > > [With all apologies due to Bob,] Page is out of date. It's 640K, 256K, not traffic shaping and that is our public price, if you search the TCLUG archives, I'll bet you can find the TCLUG price. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From Troy.Johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Jun 13 13:25:51 2001 From: Troy.Johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Funny article on "Smart Tags" Message-ID: A good artitcle from ZDNet (so rare it must be valuable ;-): http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/columns/0,4164,2772297,00.html From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 13:26:25 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613103635.V21645@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:36:35AM -0500 References: <20010613103635.V21645@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010613132625.N18625@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > > that's how qwest provisions lines now, and we don't traffic shape dsl on > > our end. > > What kind of connectivity to the internet do you have, and how do you > handle outbound bandwidth contengincy issues? At least you hopefully > use some sort of method other than fifo to keep from one user kabashing > everyones party. Let's not turn this into my isp is better then your isp. I'll answer Scotts question via private email. I don't think it's health for the list to start praising or slamming isp and how they run their networks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 13 13:40:29 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with ISA modem Message-ID: <200106131907.f5DJ7ZK27272@sprite.real-time.com> I have been trying to get an ISA modem to work under both Linux (Progeny) and Win98. It's an AOpen FM56-ITU/2 modem, and all that I have heard about it tells me that it works great under Linux. However, I can't seem to get it to work in either Linux or Win98. Linux detects the serial port (ttyS3), but when I do a pnpdump, it doesn't find the board. I ln -s /dev/ttyS3 /dev/modem, but when I use kppp, it says the modem isn't responding. Win98 doesn't detect it, period, and when I do a brute-force install, the modem diagnostic comes back saying that the modem isn't responding. Oh, yes, and the motherboard is a Soyo K7VTA-PRO. Does anyone have this modem? What jumper settings do you recommend? (I've been playing around with them, trying different COM ports and IRQs. Help, before I tear my hair out! :Peter From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 13 14:24:19 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This sounds like a job for one of the Linux Router Project distros or CoyoteLinux. On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > First off you need to dump that floppy disk there. You couldn't possibly > have picked a less reliable data storage medium. If *really* want to go > that route then I'd suggest you install your floppy-ized distro to the > hard drive and turn the floppy into an, > Overwrite-the-hard-drive-with-the-standard-config floppy. > > Anyway, there are loads of single floppy distros out on the internet. I > haven't tried any given my prejudice but you should prbably just try a few > and see which ones you like. > > Josh > > __SIG__ > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Ming wrote: > > > > > > > Just kinda curious, but how can I build a bootable floppy that will load > > nic drivers then run a firewall script. I would like to make the floopy > > write protected so if some one did compromise my system all i would have > > to do is reboot to close the hack. I am sure if I just put a little more > > thought into this I could figure it out, but its late and I am not > > thinking very clearly. > > > > > > Jason > > wannabelinuxadmin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 13 15:04:25 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613132625.N18625@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010613150425.A21645@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010613 13:28]: > Let's not turn this into my isp is better then your isp. I'll answer Scotts > question via private email. Acutally, I didn't want to turn it into that. Im currently having some problems with my colocated machine clobbering some other users on a constrained link and I'm looking at a way to keep it under control. This isn't going to be a "whos better than me" thing. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/9c597e04/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 15:13:59 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: <20010613150425.A21645@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 03:04:25PM -0500 References: <20010613132625.N18625@real-time.com> <20010613150425.A21645@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010613151359.I18625@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > * Bob Tanner [010613 13:28]: > > Let's not turn this into my isp is better then your isp. I'll answer Scotts > > question via private email. > > Acutally, I didn't want to turn it into that. Im currently having some > problems with my colocated machine clobbering some other users on a > constrained link and I'm looking at a way to keep it under control. > > This isn't going to be a "whos better than me" thing. Oh! Well, I'm better. :-) What is the eq you are using? Router, switch, colo machine OS? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From eng at pinenet.com Wed Jun 13 15:13:28 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Re [TCLUG] QwestM$N Deal@13.sdm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010613.20132800@LinWin.MShome> I live in the Lake Mille Lacs area. My ISP is PineNet.com in Pine City, MN. He's a great rural ISP but his overhead is tremendous compared to the Twin Cities. So, basically, he's a one man operation with more to do than is possible just getting and keeping people connected and billed. He has phone lines from the twin ports (Duluth) to the twin cities. Speed is not possible. No way he can offer competitive web hosting, too. Other ISPs get pretty bad pretty fast. East Central Electric (a rural power coop) is horrible. A vast part of Minnesota needs serious Web Hosting, with very simple consulting help. You would not believe the backlog of rural need for web presence. I looked at your home page but found little information. The range of business activities here is huge; from goat cheese to tourism. A vast area of Minnesota needs your services and expertise. Rick Engebretson Isle, MN. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 6/13/01, 11:55:38 AM, Nate Carlson wrote regarding Re [TCLUG] QwestM$N Deal@13.sdm: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > I think you would do a big service to your sales department if you would > > kick their a** a little. You might want to ask Bob for help though :) > > > > I mean - if they would spend half a day updating that web page of theirs, you > > would get more business. I have look a couple times in the past to that > > page and I have been put off by the price (which is wrong, as you told me), > > by lack of information (dns, ip) and stupidity (we support windows and mac). > Yeah, we are actually already in the process of redesigning our entire web > site to make it.. well, usable, and accurate. > But, I've forwarded your complaints on to the proper person anyways. :) > > If they can't be bothered, then put a page on www.mn-linux.org with Linux > > friendly companies in TwinCities and put yourselves in the first row (as you > > rightfully deserve) and add that info somewhere... > This is actually a good idea anyways.. I'm sure we're not the only > linux-friendly ISP in the area, and it'd be a good resource for anyone > looking for Linux help locally. > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mkroska at readynetgo.com Wed Jun 13 15:29:48 2001 From: mkroska at readynetgo.com (Mark K) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: Re [TCLUG] QwestM$N Deal@13.sdm In-Reply-To: <20010613.20132800@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: oh, call me! I've been on the list for months, and I won't do a "long drawn out shameless plug". We have heard many of the same types of complaints from customers about ISPs, ASPs, computer "not-so-SuperStores", and small shops. We have signed deals simply because we answer the phone! Please check our web site for the details of services we provide. We are not a one-man shop, but are talented and hard working folks based in St Cloud. Give us a chance to win your business, or feel free to ask for references from clients and a free initial consultation and quotation. BTW, I do enjoy this list...great minds at work! MK On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > I live in the Lake Mille Lacs area. My ISP is PineNet.com in Pine City, > MN. He's a great rural ISP but his overhead is tremendous compared to the > Twin Cities. So, basically, he's a one man operation with more to do than > is possible just getting and keeping people connected and billed. He has > phone lines from the twin ports (Duluth) to the twin cities. Speed is not > possible. No way he can offer competitive web hosting, too. > > Other ISPs get pretty bad pretty fast. East Central Electric (a rural > power coop) is horrible. > > A vast part of Minnesota needs serious Web Hosting, with very simple > consulting help. You would not believe the backlog of rural need for web > presence. > > I looked at your home page but found little information. > > The range of business activities here is huge; from goat cheese to > tourism. > > A vast area of Minnesota needs your services and expertise. > > Rick Engebretson > Isle, MN. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > On 6/13/01, 11:55:38 AM, Nate Carlson wrote > regarding Re [TCLUG] QwestM$N Deal@13.sdm: > > > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > I think you would do a big service to your sales department if you would > > > kick their a** a little. You might want to ask Bob for help though :) > > > > > > I mean - if they would spend half a day updating that web page of theirs, > you > > > would get more business. I have look a couple times in the past to that > > > page and I have been put off by the price (which is wrong, as you told > me), > > > by lack of information (dns, ip) and stupidity (we support windows and > mac). > > > Yeah, we are actually already in the process of redesigning our entire > web > > site to make it.. well, usable, and accurate. > > > But, I've forwarded your complaints on to the proper person anyways. :) > > > > If they can't be bothered, then put a page on www.mn-linux.org with Linux > > > friendly companies in TwinCities and put yourselves in the first row (as > you > > > rightfully deserve) and add that info somewhere... > > > This is actually a good idea anyways.. I'm sure we're not the only > > linux-friendly ISP in the area, and it'd be a good resource for anyone > > looking for Linux help locally. > > > -- > > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ________________________________________________________ ReadyNET Go!, Inc. - Building your Business on the net ________________________________________________________ Mark J. Kroska MIS Director 320.656.0765 Voice 888.447.3239 Toll Free 320.203.7052 Fax http://www.readynetgo.com mailto:mkroska@readynetgo.com ________________________________________________________ From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 13 17:37:13 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISO filesystem with duplicate names Message-ID: Hey, I'm trying to make a CD which has files with similar, or infact the same names, in different directories. For example: / /dir1 /dir2 /dir1/testfile /dir2/testfile I thought ISOFS should turn these into TESTFILE.;0 and TESTFILE.;1 or something... and it USED to work ages ago, but now it complains that they "have the same Rock Ridge name". Anyone know how the heck to turn this on? -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 13 18:22:21 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISO filesystem with duplicate names In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 05:37:13PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010613182221.A18161@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 05:37:13PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > I'm trying to make a CD which has files with similar, or infact the same > names, in different directories. For example: > > / > /dir1 > /dir2 > /dir1/testfile > /dir2/testfile > > > I thought ISOFS should turn these into TESTFILE.;0 and TESTFILE.;1 or > something... and it USED to work ages ago, but now it complains that they > "have the same Rock Ridge name". > > Anyone know how the heck to turn this on? Here is my mkiso script: mkisofs -D -l -J -L -o $1.iso -P "Florin Iucha" -p "Florin Iucha" -r -U -v $2 I call it with the iso name as the first argument and the directory to isoize as the second argument. Look up in the manual what argument each means... 'cuz I don't remember.. but "It Works for Me"(tm). florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 13 18:47:30 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISO filesystem with duplicate names In-Reply-To: <20010613182221.A18161@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > mkisofs -D -l -J -L -o $1.iso -P "Florin Iucha" -p "Florin Iucha" -r -U -v $2 > I call it with the iso name as the first argument and the directory to isoize > as the second argument. Look up in the manual what argument each means... 'cuz > I don't remember.. but "It Works for Me"(tm). Not me though. Try it in the scenario I mentioned and let me know (: It used to work with OLDER versions of mkisofs, I'm using 1.14a18 now, apparently. Plus, you're making a Joliet volume (-J) which I absolutely refuse to do (; -Yaron -- From madd0057 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 13 19:28:12 2001 From: madd0057 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Maddy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BIND, named, and Dynamic DNS Message-ID: <002501c0f468$e5afbe50$0200a8c0@omeganualpha.org> Hello all! My name is Brian Maddy and I still consider myself somewhat new to linux. Anyways, I was hoping someone could help me with a little problem I'm having. I live in a house with about 20 other people. I'm in charge of our DSL modem and firewall which is running RedHat linux (ver. 7.1, kernel 2.4). My friend helped me set up a caching only DNS and it's working great. Now I want to get dynamic DNS working on our internal network. DHCP is working fine by the way. What I want to do is make it so I can lookup "mycomputer.mydomain.com" and get the IP of my computer from anywhere inside my house. Most people in the house are using windows. I only really want it to work with Debian linux (my computer) and Win2000 (I don't think the other versions of windows update the local DNS, and I don't really care about them). As an added problem, not everyone has their computer's domain set to our domain name. Many people have to have it set to something else for work or school and have to keep it that way. I would still like to be able to look up "theircomputer.mydomain.com" and get their IP in the house. Two of the zones in my /etc/named.conf file are the following: /etc/named.conf: ... zone "mydomain.com" { type master; file "internal.forward"; allow-update {192.168.0/24; }; }; zone "0.168.192.in-addr.arpa" { type master; file "internal.reverse"; allow-update { 192.168.0/24; }; }; ... Now, the Win2K computers are updating the reverse lookups, but in kind of a strange way. They are adding lines to my "internal.reverse" file, but not exactly how I wanted them to. The lines that are added are set up so that when I do a lookup on 192.168.0.x I get "computername.WORKdomain.com" and not "computername.MYdomain.com". I would like to know how to fix this, but I am more concerned with the forward lookup. The forward lookup is not being updated at all. I don't really see why either, the zones above are set up identically...weird. Perhaps Win2K only updates the reverse lookup? I don't know. I haven't even started working on getting my Debian linux computer to do the updates. That will come later though. I have been able to find almost no information on the web for a situation like this. The only thing I find is about RFC2136 (which doesn't help me out with syntax) or is a perl script where you have to keep a file that tells the name of each computer and it's IP. I don't want to have a static file like that because we have people moving in and out all the time and I don't want to have to constantly maintain it. So does anyone know where I could find some more information on how to do this? Help would be greatly appreciated. :) Thanks in advance! Brian Maddy Madd0057@tc.umn.edu PS: If I didn't supply enough information, just let me know what is needed and I'll send it right away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/5d1acb9e/attachment.html From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 13 19:33:01 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISO filesystem with duplicate names In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 06:47:30PM -0500 References: <20010613182221.A18161@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010613193301.A31384@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 06:47:30PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > mkisofs -D -l -J -L -o $1.iso -P "Florin Iucha" -p "Florin Iucha" -r -U -v $2 > > I call it with the iso name as the first argument and the directory to isoize > > as the second argument. Look up in the manual what argument each means... 'cuz > > I don't remember.. but "It Works for Me"(tm). > > Not me though. Try it in the scenario I mentioned and let me know (: It > used to work with OLDER versions of mkisofs, I'm using 1.14a18 now, > apparently. > > Plus, you're making a Joliet volume (-J) which I absolutely refuse to do > (; Joliet volume means you are just adding the info necessary to read it in Winblows. Or is there something worse than that? 8) It works for me here, with your scenario... [root@bear /opt]# which mkisofs /usr/bin/mkisofs [root@bear /opt]# rpm -qf /usr/bin/mkisofs mkisofs-1.9-6 [root@bear /opt]# mkisofs -v mkisofs 1.13 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) ... ,.. I don't know what to tell'ya... downgrade? ;) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From madd0057 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 13 19:43:30 2001 From: madd0057 at tc.umn.edu (Brian Maddy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] oops Message-ID: <003901c0f46b$0871fd20$0200a8c0@omeganualpha.org> Oops, sorry about that html mail stuff. I'm writing from Outlook Express and I didn't realize I had that on. It should be off now. Brian From patrick at hamletmachine.com Wed Jun 13 19:48:44 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BIND, named, and Dynamic DNS References: <002501c0f468$e5afbe50$0200a8c0@omeganualpha.org> Message-ID: <3B2809EC.1020008@hamletmachine.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/8624b34b/attachment.htm From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 13 20:17:26 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISO filesystem with duplicate names In-Reply-To: <20010613193301.A31384@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > Joliet volume means you are just adding the info necessary to read it in > Winblows. Or is there something worse than that? 8) Well, since Windoze has absolutely NO problem WHATsoever reading RockRidge, why on Earth bother with Joliet? MS put it in so UNIX people won't be able to read their CDs... like that works. > It works for me here, with your scenario... That sucks (: -Yaron -- From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed Jun 13 21:00:36 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with ISA modem In-Reply-To: <200106131907.f5DJ7ZK27272@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200106131907.f5DJ7ZK27272@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <992484037.11359.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> I had a problem similar to this recently. You might try swapping out cards if you have a few ISA cards in there. I ended up fixing my problem by buying a PCI network card to replace my ISA one which didn't like my sound card. $14.95 later it works perfectly. It used to be that PCI was to be avoided on Linux but now I think it's ISA that's to be avoided when possible. Brady > I have been trying to get an ISA modem to work under both Linux > (Progeny) and Win98. It's an AOpen FM56-ITU/2 modem, and all that I have > heard about it tells me that it works great under Linux. However, I can't > seem to get it to work in either Linux or Win98. Linux detects the serial > port (ttyS3), but when I do a pnpdump, it doesn't find the board. I ln -s > /dev/ttyS3 /dev/modem, but when I use kppp, it says the modem isn't > responding. Win98 doesn't detect it, period, and when I do a brute-force > install, the modem diagnostic comes back saying that the modem isn't > responding. Oh, yes, and the motherboard is a Soyo K7VTA-PRO. > Does anyone have this modem? What jumper settings do you recommend? > (I've been playing around with them, trying different COM ports and IRQs. > Help, before I tear my hair out! > :Peter > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 13 21:23:42 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smallest memory footprint for a GUI web browser? Message-ID: <20010613212342.H9995@real-time.com> Anyone have any recommendations on the smallest memory footprint for a GUI web browser? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 13 21:32:21 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with ISA modem In-Reply-To: <200106131907.f5DJ7ZK27272@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200106131907.f5DJ7ZK27272@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010613213221.4b284e29.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > > I have been trying to get an ISA modem to work under both Linux > (Progeny) and Win98. It's an AOpen FM56-ITU/2 modem, and all that I have > heard about it tells me that it works great under Linux. However, I > can't seem to get it to work in either Linux or Win98. Linux detects the > serial port (ttyS3), but when I do a pnpdump, it doesn't find the board. > I ln -s /dev/ttyS3 /dev/modem, but when I use kppp, it says the modem > isn't responding. Win98 doesn't detect it, period, and when I do a > brute-force install, the modem diagnostic comes back saying that the > modem isn't responding. Oh, yes, and the motherboard is a Soyo > K7VTA-PRO. > Does anyone have this modem? What jumper settings do you > recommend? (I've been playing around with them, trying different COM > ports and IRQs. Help, before I tear my hair out! > :Peter Well, I haven't ever played with that card, though there may be something generic that's causing the problem. You don't have anything else using IRQ4, do you? COM1 and COM3 (sort of) share IRQ4 and COM2 and COM3 share IRQ3. I've never had much luck with running two COM ports with the same IRQ -- if you have a mouse on COM1, that could cause problems. Even if you don't have anything on that COM port, disable it in the BIOS, just to make sure nothing is causing a conflict. Additionally, make sure that your BIOS sees that it should not assign IRQ4 to any PCI devices. I know a lot of systems like to try and assign those low IRQs to devices, even though they may already be in use. If kppp still gives you trouble, it's always a good idea to try out minicom. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ SIG: HUP / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010613/bf93b7db/attachment.pgp From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 13 21:31:18 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with ISA modem Message-ID: <200106140256.f5E2ujK05003@sprite.real-time.com> --- Mike Hicks wrote: > You don't have anything else using IRQ4, do you? COM1 and COM3 (sort > of) > share IRQ4 and COM2 and COM3 share IRQ3. Nope. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. The mouse is hooked up to the PS/2 port, which I think is IRQ12, IIRC. The board has two serial ports, COM1 and COM2, although nothing is attached to them. Could the mere existance of the second serial port be the problem? > Even if you don't have anything on that > COM > port, disable it in the BIOS, just to make sure nothing is causing a > conflict. There's another weird thing--I have not found any way to disable COM ports in the BIOS. I have been through every option at least five times. There is an option to set various IRQ ports, including 3 and 4, to either PnP PCI/ISA or Legacy ISA, but fiddling with that has not helped matters. > Additionally, make sure that your BIOS sees that it should not assign > IRQ4 > to any PCI devices. I know a lot of systems like to try and assign > those > low IRQs to devices, even though they may already be in use. As far as I can tell, IRQ3 should be clear...but then again, it's a little hard to tell since I haven't found a way to disable the COM ports in BIOS. > If kppp still gives you trouble, it's always a good idea to try out > minicom. I really don't think it's a problem with kppp, since Win98 has the same problem. Well, I have already spent several hours on this already. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day... :Peter From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed Jun 13 22:37:58 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP In-Reply-To: <20010601190121.691926b2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20010601190121.691926b2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <992489879.17001.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> I was sort of thinking the other day how nice it would be if you could "mount" an ftp site and use it as if it was any other directory albeit a slow one...and one that has a tendency to disappear every 300 seconds. Is there anything like this out there? Would it even be feasible? I assume this would have to be created as a kernel module or something like that. Brady From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jun 13 22:58:32 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP Message-ID: <20010613225832.C19326@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:37:58PM -0500, Brady Hegberg wrote: > I was sort of thinking the other day how nice it would be if you could "mount" an ftp site and use it as if it was any other directory albeit a slow one...and one that has a tendency to disappear every 300 seconds. Is there anything like this out there? Would it even be feasible? You mean something like ftpfs? http://freshmeat.net/projects/ftpfs/ -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From mend0070 at umn.edu Wed Jun 13 23:04:30 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FTP Message-ID: <200106140404.XAA08668@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 13 Jun 2001, Brady Hegberg is alleged to have said: > I was sort of thinking the other day how nice it would be if you could > "mount" an ftp site and use it as if it was any other directory albeit a slow > one...and one that has a tendency to disappear every 300 seconds. Is there > anything like this out there? Would it even be feasible? > > I assume this would have to be created as a kernel module or something > like that. I'm pretty sure IRIX lets you do something similar -- you can open an ftp site on your desktop. In this sort of drag and drop scenario, I think you could do the same thing in Linux userspace. But maybe there's a reason that you want to do a lower level mount thing? Is this for command line / user ease of use, or is there an application (or would be app) involved? From seg at haxxed.com Thu Jun 14 02:59:15 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISO filesystem with duplicate names References: Message-ID: <3B286ED3.9801F0@haxxed.com> > > Joliet volume means you are just adding the info necessary to read it in > > Winblows. Or is there something worse than that? 8) > > Well, since Windoze has absolutely NO problem WHATsoever reading > RockRidge, why on Earth bother with Joliet? MS put it in so UNIX people > won't be able to read their CDs... like that works. Joliet does long (hah) filenames and unicode, and other such VFATish stuff. And by long filenames they mean ~64 characters, which is really really gay. I like to name my mp3's with nice long descriptive filenames like: Best of Trance Vol1 - 08 - Jonathan Peters presents Luminaire - Flower Duet '99 (Jonathan Peter's Club Mix).mp3 mkisofs has to cut the poor thing off, leaving the file without an .mp3 extention. And there's a bit of a problem with NT (Both 4 and 2K) if the Joliet filename ends up being cut and manages to leave a space on the end, you can't seem to access it in any way. You're screwed. One of these days I'll patch mkisofs to at least not leave a space on the end, and maybe chop from the left not the right... Near as I've seen windows won't read RockRidge. I just see the ISO filenames, in all their BLAH0001.MP3 glory. I hate you microsoft. Die. Burn in hell. Hmmm, how does one master a UDF filesystem... It damn well better be less gay under microsoft operating systems... From peter.clark at tides.com Thu Jun 14 08:29:03 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem fixed; now what about the sound? Message-ID: <200106141351.f5EDphK16007@sprite.real-time.com> So I stayed up till midnight last night, and wonders of wonders, finally got my modem to work. Turns out that the problem was with COM2; managed to reset the physical device to use 3E8, IRQ 4 (COM3) and now everything is (almost) hunky-dory. Except for the sound. (Isn't it always _something_?) On-board AC'97 audio, works fine in Win98, Linux doesn't recognize it. As far as I've read, AC'97 is supported, so why doesn't it get detected? In BIOS, should the "Sound Blaster" option be enabled? I've already enabled on-board audio, and the settings work fine enough under Win98 (except no sound under DOS--not a big deal), but I thought that there might be some problem with that. Furthermore, how do I force Linux to recognize that there is indeed sound. I skimmed the Sound-HOWTO last night, but (at least to my befuddled brain) it just assumed that Linux would recognize the audio automatically. However, when I try to play sounds, or set up a sound daemon, it tells me that /dev/dsp doesn't exist. ls -l /dev/dsp confirms that the file is there, so I assume that it just doesn't recognize the hardware. Now I'm really sorry that the installfest was canceled this month. Oh, well. :Peter From rmadhapp at npd.hcltech.com Thu Jun 14 08:57:49 2001 From: rmadhapp at npd.hcltech.com (Ravi Kumar Madhappan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reg. free book of GTK+ programming. Message-ID: <3B28C2DD.7D856C22@npd.hcltech.com> I need a free book of GTK+ programming. It would be great pleasure if I get a GTK+ book or online tutorial from u if u have that one.... Thanks in Advance MRK From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Jun 14 09:13:28 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reg. free book of GTK+ programming. References: <3B28C2DD.7D856C22@npd.hcltech.com> Message-ID: <3B28C688.7B5BB18E@structural-wood.com> Ravi Kumar Madhappan wrote: > > I need a free book of GTK+ programming. It would be great > pleasure if I get a GTK+ book or online tutorial from u > if u have that one.... > > Thanks in Advance > MRK > http://www106.pair.com/rhp//gnome-app-devel.html http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/gtk/index.html http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 14 09:54:55 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: <20010613083458.5b7627eb.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > Buy a quality media, run it in a clean, maintained drive, and reliability > can be quite acceptable. I agree that floppy disks are lacking in quality, but since your single-floppy distros only use the floppy to BOOT, I don't see any reason not to use the cheapies. I was running a LRP for a good 6 months between reboots (all the fault of the modem, sometimes it would get hung and rebooting was the quick fix). If I was running ethernet I wouldn't have ever rebooted I don't believe. That being said, it's always a good idea to dd those important floppies in the event that your disk fails you. From mend0070 at umn.edu Thu Jun 14 11:17:35 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem fixed; now what about the sound? Message-ID: <200106141617.LAA13943@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 14 Jun 2001, peter.clark@tides.com is alleged to have said: > Except for the sound. (Isn't it always _something_?) On-board AC'97 > audio, works fine in Win98, Linux doesn't recognize it. So you got past the Win snafu you had at the beer meeting? Good man! > As far as I've > read, AC'97 is supported, so why doesn't it get detected? In BIOS, should > the "Sound Blaster" option be enabled? I've already enabled on-board audio, > and the settings work fine enough under Win98 (except no sound under > DOS--not a big deal), but I thought that there might be some problem with > that. Furthermore, how do I force Linux to recognize that there is indeed > sound. I skimmed the Sound-HOWTO last night, but (at least to my befuddled > brain) it just assumed that Linux would recognize the audio automatically. > However, when I try to play sounds, or set up a sound daemon, it tells me > that /dev/dsp doesn't exist. ls -l /dev/dsp confirms that the file is > there, so I assume that it just doesn't recognize the hardware. Are you trying to do this with alsa or just straight up? You might peek at Alsa and see if that makes it easier, if you're not already. I seem to recall that they do the AC'97. From zibby at ringworld.org Thu Jun 14 11:20:06 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem fixed; now what about the sound? Message-ID: Sorry you're getting this twice Peter, I meant to send it to the list not to you. :) > So I stayed up till midnight last night, That's early! C'mon, 6am next time! :P > On-board AC'97 audio, works fine in Win98, Linux doesn't recognize it. Sure it does, just not automatically. The trick is, what is your motherboard's chipset? Intel i810/i820/i830/i840/MX440 ALi MAGik VIA KX133, VIA KT133, VIA KT133A, VIA KT266, VIA KM133 AMD-750 und AMD-760 mit VIA686A bzw. VIA686B Southbridges The Intel chipsets will get you chipmunk sound if you just install the modules. You have to specify a different clock chip setting. (Or soemthing like that...) The Via chipset works, more or less. Haven't dealt with ALi or AMD. The last time I tried the Intel AC'97, it sucked. 2.2.18 kernel drivers sucked, Alsa drivers sucked, it just sucked. I gave up and grabed a es1371. The Via support was better, but not too much. Unlike the Intel drivers, I could play mp3s. But Loki games were a no go. I got the best rusults with the alsa drivers. Ok, this is from memory so I might just be wrong: for the i8XX chipsets you need to: modprobe i810_audio For Via: modprobe via82cxxx_audio If your running Debian you can `echo "via82cxxx_audio" >> /etc/modules` or `echo "i810_audio" >> /etc/modules` and you're sound modules will be installed when you reboot your computer. You can also do the modutils route, if you can find the modutils line for your module in it's documentation. If you choose the Also route, see http://www.alsa-project.org/ The Alsa setup is pretty slick, so if you read up on it you should be ok. Based on my experiences with this sound card, both with the kernel and Also drivers, I highly recomend you go out and get yourself a new soundcard. Ensoniq es1371 are great low price cards if you can still find one. They've been replaced by SoundBlaster PCI64, PCI128, and PCI512 now however. Overall, there's no better sound card value than the SB Live! X-Gamer 5.1. You get the standard SBLive, Duex Ex, MDK2, UT... So what you get for $99 is well worth it. (You can play UT under Linux.) The SB Live! Value is only sold to OEM's now, but I've seen it for sale at Tran Micro. Remember that the only difference between the SB Live! cards is the software bundles, but don't settle for a 5.0 card. Make sure you get a 5.1 series. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 14 12:14:23 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, that's all reasonable. I'm still prejudiced against them but that can remain my opinion. Josh __SIG__ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > > > Buy a quality media, run it in a clean, maintained drive, and reliability > > can be quite acceptable. > > I agree that floppy disks are lacking in quality, but since your > single-floppy distros only use the floppy to BOOT, I don't see any reason > not to use the cheapies. I was running a LRP for a good 6 months between > reboots (all the fault of the modem, sometimes it would get hung and > rebooting was the quick fix). If I was running ethernet I wouldn't have > ever rebooted I don't believe. > > That being said, it's always a good idea to dd those important floppies in > the event that your disk fails you. > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tobytoo at black-hole.com Thu Jun 14 13:41:05 2001 From: tobytoo at black-hole.com (Brian Toberman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CDBurning, again Message-ID: <236552001641418415401@black-hole.com> From: tobytoo@black-hole.com To: tobytoo@black-hole.com, Subject: FW: CDBurning, again Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:41:15 -0500 I'm having trouble with my cd burn setup. A RICOH 9070 CDRW-DVD using Caldera kernel 2.2.14 I can get it to recognize as a burner but when I do it won't read from it, I keep getting a "Not a recognized block device" error. From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 14 14:21:46 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS Message-ID: I have some massive files that I'm working on, and some of them I only need to see the last few lines. In linux I'd just use tail, but, well, I'm not in linux. Anyone know if I can find a DOS version of tail somewhere (or an equivelent utility?). TIA! -Brian From dutchman at uswest.net Thu Jun 14 14:24:57 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS References: Message-ID: <3B290F89.F3CF07B@uswest.net> Cygwin is your friend....... http://www.cygwin.com Brian wrote: > I have some massive files that I'm working on, and some of them I only > need to see the last few lines. In linux I'd just use tail, but, well, > I'm not in linux. Anyone know if I can find a DOS version of tail > somewhere (or an equivelent utility?). TIA! > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 14:27:49 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS Message-ID: <010614142749.202d4ba7@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Do a google on cygwin. Should have what you need. Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From foeclan at winternet.com Thu Jun 14 14:30:35 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you're looking for the full functionality of tail, and more UNIX toolkit kinda stuff, you might want to look into the MKS toolkit for Developers. It costs, but from my experiences at my last job, it's rather nice. Otherwise, you could go with the free option of getting Cygwin. Of course, if you're only looking for the last couple lines, use 'type'. Sort of like 'cat', only in DOS. It'll take a minute or so on big files for everything to scroll past, but if you need less than a screenbuffer of the last few lines, it'll do. Just 'type '. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > I have some massive files that I'm working on, and some of them I only > need to see the last few lines. In linux I'd just use tail, but, well, > I'm not in linux. Anyone know if I can find a DOS version of tail > somewhere (or an equivelent utility?). TIA! > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From patrick at hamletmachine.com Thu Jun 14 14:33:27 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS References: Message-ID: <005c01c0f508$e350a2f0$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> You can get some UNIX-like DOS utilities (including tail) here: http://www.geocities.com/rlcgreen/txtfrmt.htm#gnutxtutils I haven't tried them, so I can't say how well they work (or fail to). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 14:21 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS > I have some massive files that I'm working on, and some of them I only > need to see the last few lines. In linux I'd just use tail, but, well, > I'm not in linux. Anyone know if I can find a DOS version of tail > somewhere (or an equivelent utility?). TIA! > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hata0006 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 15:36:27 2001 From: hata0006 at tc.umn.edu (Jason Hataye) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install Message-ID: <3B29204B.E973E52F@tc.umn.edu> Dear tclug folks, Hi! My name is Jason, and I just moved to Minneapolis from San Francisco last week! I'm "getting settled" and part of that is updating my computer system. I wanted to ask if any of you might have some advice or input on the best way of going about it, because it's a little complicated. I would like to install both Red Hat Linux 7.1 and Windoze 98, while also installing a new hard drive. Here's what I have NOW: 128 MB RAM One 3 gig hard drive (in first IDE slot) Red Hat Linux 6.0 (updated to 2.2.16 kernel) Windoze 98 using LILO to boot. Here's what I want to DO: 128 MB RAM One 3 gig hard drive (in second IDE slot) One 30 gig hard drive (in first IDE slot) Red Hat Linux 7.1, give the partition about 2/3 of my HD space Windoze 98, give the partition about 1/3 of my HD space Use LILO to boot The old 3 gig HD can stay almost the same, but I'd like to use it for storage only (don't want any operating systems (ie the kernel) on here...so I think I'll have to do something, but I'm not sure what.) What would be the best way of accomplishing this goal? Here's one proposal, but by all means shoot it down if it won't work or if there's a more efficient way. The big QUESTION I have is in step 5: 1. Remove the 3gigHD from the primary IDE slot, and put it in the secondary IDE slot. 2. Put the 30gigHD in the primary IDE slot. Note: I think the CD ROM is attached to the primary IDE slot via the HD, so I'll keep this configuration the same. 3. turn on the computer. 4. Go straight to BIOS, and make the hardware changes, and make booting from CDROM. Put in the RH Linux installation disk into the CDROM. Restart computer. The RHLinux installation program pops up on the monitor. I do a "Custom Installation". 5. I will make the appropriate partitions (128 MBswap, 16MB /boot, and variable size /root...and also partition for Windoze) on the 30gigHD. QUESTION: Should I leave the 3gigHD "as is?" I'm afraid of having two linux kernels, one on each HD. I can't just wipe out my 3gig HD because I need the data. What do I do here? I see two possible choices, but don't know how to execute either: 1) Have a kernel on each HD, but make the computer only use the new one which is on the 30gigHD. --or-- 2) Delete the old kernel (and any other "operating system" stuff, but nothing else) on the 3gig HD. Any thoughts on what to do? Once I have this accomplished, I think I should be home free. Please let me know the best way to go about this. And thank you very much! Sincerely, Jason Hataye From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 14 15:42:27 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <3B29204B.E973E52F@tc.umn.edu> References: <3B29204B.E973E52F@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <992551347.3b2921b3b8dad@dragon> Hello, Quoting Jason Hataye : > Hi! My name is Jason, and I just moved to Minneapolis from San > Francisco last week! On purpose??!? -Yaron -- From foeclan at winternet.com Thu Jun 14 15:50:09 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <992551347.3b2921b3b8dad@dragon> Message-ID: I moved from Minneapolis to San Jose in January of 1997. Took about 5 months for the complete lack of weather and eternal sunniness to drive me nuts, and I moved back to Minneapolis. :) -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hello, > > Quoting Jason Hataye : > > > Hi! My name is Jason, and I just moved to Minneapolis from San > > Francisco last week! > > On purpose??!? > > -Yaron From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 14 15:53:57 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <992551347.3b2921b3b8dad@dragon> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > On purpose??!? hey, i _like_ the cold! -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 14 15:57:37 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS In-Reply-To: <005c01c0f508$e350a2f0$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> Message-ID: Let me second that notion. The cygwin tools are nice but are overkill for most stuff. If you search on google for stuff like 'unix tools for win32' you'll find something. There's a package I picked a while back that handles most of what I'd need. Josh __SIG__ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Patrick Knoll wrote: > You can get some UNIX-like DOS utilities (including tail) here: > > http://www.geocities.com/rlcgreen/txtfrmt.htm#gnutxtutils > > I haven't tried them, so I can't say how well they work (or fail to). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 14:21 > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS > > > > I have some massive files that I'm working on, and some of them I only > > need to see the last few lines. In linux I'd just use tail, but, well, > > I'm not in linux. Anyone know if I can find a DOS version of tail > > somewhere (or an equivelent utility?). TIA! > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 14 15:58:26 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992552306.3b292572f0241@dragon> Hey, Nate Carlson : > > On purpose??!? > hey, i _like_ the cold! The cold I can kinda take. It's the damn "It's 100 degrees in here cause these buildings were made to retain heat" thing that I can't take, and I'm from a DESERT forgoodnessake. -Yaron -- From ben at nerp.net Thu Jun 14 15:59:16 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- haha, that's what did it for my roomie, who worked for VA for all of 5-6 months. :) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Michael Vieths wrote: > I moved from Minneapolis to San Jose in January of 1997. Took about 5 > months for the complete lack of weather and eternal sunniness to drive me > nuts, and I moved back to Minneapolis. :) > > > > > > Hi! My name is Jason, and I just moved to Minneapolis from San > > > Francisco last week! > > > > On purpose??!? > > > > -Yaron -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOyklpstpDhsSpvgtAQEBpgQAlBMOH/0M/v6Rk3tlrYBNSohyBG1xCNwd kS2XHouujjyQVlLcLYJGch6M8q9ard+B39cHeumFdG5Sa9QePEmn+NF+zwbqE+Y/ QCbgSofSR2F4TbKmvqeG6Kz6ias7J4ltFD7PeQ4OLIiMz/EMpBFLvaklsB1J2K16 Sv6cnP2C5ak= =XaUx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 14 16:00:30 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yah sure. I moved back from Tampa to Minneapolis just because I missed the cold and just couldn't stand it being hot all the time. There's plenty of weather down there so I didn't miss out on that. I recall there being something like 7 waterspouts[1] on the way down to a concert once. Josh [1] A tornado on water instead of land. It's usually near the shore and can still get'cha. __SIG__ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > > On purpose??!? > > hey, i _like_ the cold! > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From brandon at rhinoventures.com Thu Jun 14 16:14:30 2001 From: brandon at rhinoventures.com (Brandon Freels) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: new linux install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01061416143001.02378@dexter.rhinoventures.com> On Thursday 14 June 2001 03:50 pm: > I moved from Minneapolis to San Jose in January of 1997. Took about 5 > months for the complete lack of weather and eternal sunniness to drive me > nuts, and I moved back to Minneapolis. :) AMEN! :-) -- Domo. Ja na. Brandon Freels (brandon@rhinoventures.com, ICQ#: 2695168, Online-Gaming: Spittledung) "I'm witty naturally. I don't need quotes!" GOLEM Web Slab: http://www.rhinoventures.com/golem/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 14 16:23:57 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <3B29204B.E973E52F@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jason Hataye wrote: > > Here's what I want to DO: > 128 MB RAM > One 3 gig hard drive (in second IDE slot) > One 30 gig hard drive (in first IDE slot) > Red Hat Linux 7.1, give the partition about 2/3 of my HD space > Windoze 98, give the partition about 1/3 of my HD space > Use LILO to boot Anyway, you had a REAL question in there :-) What *I* would do is grab yourself a copy of a Windoze boot disk with fdisk on it and a copy of Tom's root boot. Make the drive changes and change all the info in the BIOS as you had described. Boot with the 'doze floppy, fdisk the drive. Make yourself a 10 GB FAT32 partition and set it active. Reboot the machine with Tom's root boot and 'dd if=/dev/hdb1 of=/dev/hda1' to move your existing Windoze partition (I'm assuming you want to keep Windoze running as is) to your new drive. Reboot once again using the Windoze boot disk and do a 'sys c:' to make it bootable. Then, boot to the hard disk and make sure Windoze starts. Once you know Windoze has been copied correctly, pop in the RH7.1 disc and do the install, carving up the other 20 gigs as you like. Make no changes to the 3 gig. Once you have your system booting OK and all your imporatnt stuff moved off the 3 GB onto your new drive, wipe the 3 gig, partition it to your liking, and mount it somewhere nice. The ONLY question I have is whether or not dd will just accept the new partition or whether it will resize to the old one. You may have to use 'cat /dev/hdb1 > /dev/hda1' instead. Anyone have an idea? Anyway, I'm doing something similar when I upgrade and that's how I was planning to do it. -Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 16:26:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <992552306.3b292572f0241@dragon> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hey, > > Nate Carlson : > > > > On purpose??!? > > hey, i _like_ the cold! > > The cold I can kinda take. It's the damn "It's 100 degrees in here cause these > buildings were made to retain heat" thing that I can't take, and I'm from a > DESERT forgoodnessake. It's not the architecture that's got you down. A desert is arid. Here, it's not so much the heat as the stupidity -- I mean humidity. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 14 16:35:12 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re: [TCLUG] new linux install) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992554512.3b292e10c01d7@dragon> Hi, Quoting Phil Mendelsohn : > It's not the architecture that's got you down. A desert is arid. > Here, it's not so much the heat as the stupidity -- I mean humidity. ;) It's the architecture. People call Israel a desert but it really isn't. I'm used to summer days of 100+ degrees AND 80% humidity, but in Israel when you go INDOORS it's COLDER, not hotter. It was usually 20 degrees colder in my appartment than it was outside, in the summer. Course, you still need an AC at 80+ degrees, but on days when it's 75 degrees here, my appartment quickly shoots up to 85+. And appartment DO retain heat in the winter in Israel, so they can't use that as an excuse here! (: -Yaron -- From drew at usfamily.net Thu Jun 14 10:49:01 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re: [TCLUG] new linux install) References: <992554512.3b292e10c01d7@dragon> Message-ID: <3B28DCED.965C5CBB@usfamily.net> Thats because there they build building out of stone, and stone can retain cold and heat better. Here houses are built out of insulated cardboard, which unfortunatly does not hold the cold in at all during the hot days. jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hi, > > Quoting Phil Mendelsohn : > > > It's not the architecture that's got you down. A desert is arid. > > Here, it's not so much the heat as the stupidity -- I mean humidity. ;) > > It's the architecture. People call Israel a desert but it really isn't. I'm > used to summer days of 100+ degrees AND 80% humidity, but in Israel when you go > INDOORS it's COLDER, not hotter. It was usually 20 degrees colder in my > appartment than it was outside, in the summer. Course, you still need an AC at > 80+ degrees, but on days when it's 75 degrees here, my appartment quickly > shoots up to 85+. > > And appartment DO retain heat in the winter in Israel, so they can't use that > as an excuse here! (: > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010614/2474642a/drew.vcf From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 14 16:49:42 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re: [TCLUG] new linux install) In-Reply-To: <3B28DCED.965C5CBB@usfamily.net> References: <992554512.3b292e10c01d7@dragon> <3B28DCED.965C5CBB@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <992555382.3b293176c096d@dragon> Hi, Quoting Andrew Nemchenko : > Thats because there they build building out of stone, Actually, reinforced concrete. Gotta withstand those dirrect hits by missiles, y'know! (; > Here houses are built out of insulated cardboard, which > unfortunatly does not hold the cold in at all during the hot days. Which, as I said before, means it's the architecture here that's the problem. I should just go build my own house. And my own portable MP3 player... -Yaron -- From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Thu Jun 14 17:06:08 2001 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re: [TCLUG] new linux install)) References: <992554512.3b292e10c01d7@dragon> <3B28DCED.965C5CBB@usfamily.net> <992555382.3b293176c096d@dragon> Message-ID: <3B293550.145E90A3@securecomputing.com> > I should just go build my own house. And my own portable MP3 player... A high-school kid I worked with back in Iowa (circa 1999) made a voice activated MP3 player for his car. He took a mobo (200 MHz P1), hard drive, mic and power supply (modified to use juice from cig lighther) and threw them into a compartment for a 10-disc changer. He installed Win95 (bleck, peared down to the bare minimum, booted in something like 4 seconds), WinAmp and Dragon Naturally Speaking. The only problem he was having was that when he trained the speech software it often wouldn't work due to road noise. Ah well... it was still a pretty cool idea. Still worked great indoors. -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 17:04:55 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re: [TCLUG] new linux install) In-Reply-To: <992555382.3b293176c096d@dragon> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Which, as I said before, means it's the architecture here that's the problem. > > I should just go build my own house. And my own portable MP3 player... Yeah, but then of all things Minnesotan, there'd be nothing left to kvetch about, eh? Do the mp3 -- it's easier and leaves your options open. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 17:07:16 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG] new linux install)) In-Reply-To: <3B293550.145E90A3@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > The only problem he was having was that when he trained the speech > software it often wouldn't work due to road noise. Ah well... it was > still a pretty cool idea. Still worked great indoors. Yeah, but every time he answered the phone, he got Lionel Ritchie. "Hello?" -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 14 17:14:24 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Neither dd nor cat will do any resizing. Instead of moving the partition around that way expect to move data between hda1/hdb1 at the filesystem level. This is true for two reasons. The boot block in the partition is coded for a specific size and your file system meta data is all sized for the other drive. You would need to adjust each for the new drive during the transfer. Stuff like ghost and partition magic does the FS mangling automagically. You can get away with dding a partition to another *if* they are of approximately the same size. Any extra space will just be unused. You're probably much better off mounting each and just moving files around that way. (not that I read the original question, I'm just responding to the suggestion) Josh __SIG__ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jason Hataye wrote: > > > > > Here's what I want to DO: > > 128 MB RAM > > One 3 gig hard drive (in second IDE slot) > > One 30 gig hard drive (in first IDE slot) > > Red Hat Linux 7.1, give the partition about 2/3 of my HD space > > Windoze 98, give the partition about 1/3 of my HD space > > Use LILO to boot > > Anyway, you had a REAL question in there :-) > > What *I* would do is grab yourself a copy of a Windoze boot disk with > fdisk on it and a copy of Tom's root boot. Make the drive changes and > change all the info in the BIOS as you had described. Boot with the 'doze > floppy, fdisk the drive. Make yourself a 10 GB FAT32 partition and set it > active. Reboot the machine with Tom's root boot and 'dd if=/dev/hdb1 > of=/dev/hda1' to move your existing Windoze partition (I'm assuming you > want to keep Windoze running as is) to your new drive. Reboot once again > using the Windoze boot disk and do a 'sys c:' to make it bootable. Then, > boot to the hard disk and make sure Windoze starts. Once you know Windoze > has been copied correctly, pop in the RH7.1 disc and do the install, > carving up the other 20 gigs as you like. Make no changes to the 3 > gig. Once you have your system booting OK and all your imporatnt stuff > moved off the 3 GB onto your new drive, wipe the 3 gig, partition it to > your liking, and mount it somewhere nice. > > The ONLY question I have is whether or not dd will just accept the new > partition or whether it will resize to the old one. You may have to use > 'cat /dev/hdb1 > /dev/hda1' instead. Anyone have an idea? > > Anyway, I'm doing something similar when I upgrade and that's how I was > planning to do it. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drew at usfamily.net Thu Jun 14 11:24:03 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG] new linux install)) References: Message-ID: <3B28E522.106AEEA7@usfamily.net> Why dont you just go to wall mart and buy a mp3 playing cd player for $95. Its cheap and easy to use. Plus you can even take it outside of yor car. Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > > > The only problem he was having was that when he trained the speech > > software it often wouldn't work due to road noise. Ah well... it was > > still a pretty cool idea. Still worked great indoors. > > Yeah, but every time he answered the phone, he got Lionel Ritchie. > > "Hello?" > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010614/00675446/drew.vcf From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 14 17:19:39 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CDBurning, again In-Reply-To: <236552001641418415401@black-hole.com>; from tobytoo@black-hole.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:41:05PM -0500 References: <236552001641418415401@black-hole.com> Message-ID: <20010614171939.B21278@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:41:05PM -0500, Brian Toberman wrote: > From: tobytoo@black-hole.com > To: tobytoo@black-hole.com, > Subject: FW: CDBurning, again > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:41:15 -0500 > > I'm having trouble with my cd burn setup. > A RICOH 9070 CDRW-DVD using Caldera kernel 2.2.14 > I can get it to recognize as a burner but when I do it won't read > from > it, I keep getting a "Not a recognized block device" error. I suppose "get it to recognize as a burner" means enabling SCSI generic support in the kernel... Then you have to do a "ln -sf /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom". florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 14 17:32:12 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG] new linux install)) In-Reply-To: <3B28E522.106AEEA7@usfamily.net> References: <3B28E522.106AEEA7@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <992557932.3b293b6c835e4@dragon> Hi, Quoting Andrew Nemchenko : > Why dont you just go to wall mart and buy a mp3 playing cd player for > $95. > Its cheap and easy to use. Plus you can even take it outside of yor > car. Because I don't want to lug around something the size of a CD player. Unfortunetly I also want something with more than 64MB of RAM. And also I'd like ot pay under $300. I guess I'll wait a few years... In the meantime I did get my wife a Rio Volt (mp3 CDR player) which is pretty cool. -Yaron -- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 17:47:46 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010614174746.52cd75c7.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Joshua Jore wrote: > > Ok, that's all reasonable. I'm still prejudiced against them > but that can remain my opinion. Hey, I'm with you -- I must have an electromagnetic field around me that totally wrecks floppies or something. I was really happy when Steve Jobs banished floppy drives from Apples However, if people insist on using floppies, I'd really recommend ejecting them after the system has been booted. There's no telling how much dust could collect if that little window stays open. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ OK, so what's the speed / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ of dark? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010614/8ede7c5b/attachment.pgp From andy at theasis.com Thu Jun 14 12:48:25 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player In-Reply-To: <992557932.3b293b6c835e4@dragon> Message-ID: > Because I don't want to lug around something the size of a CD player. > Unfortunetly I also want something with more than 64MB of RAM. And also I'd > like ot pay under $300. I guess I'll wait a few years... Probably not quite that long. When I was in Osaka, I wandered through the Sony tower and saw that they've got 128M memory sticks (interchangeable ram) for their little mp3 player. I also saw elsewhere a little Aiwa that didn't have removable media, but held 128M and were pretty compact. $400. Shoulda bought it, since I've not found that one here. I'm betting about a year to get something reasonable for $300. > In the meantime I did get my wife a Rio Volt (mp3 CDR player) which is pretty > cool. How much? AA batteries? I.e., is it the same size as the CD walkmans? I've considered those a bit too big 'n klunky. Maybe a minidisk player.... hmmm. For non-CD-R players, I'd like to see one that's easy to load up with new songs through linux/usb. I've not yet sussed out which models can do that. Andy > -Yaron From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 14 18:30:33 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? Message-ID: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> XFree86-4.1 has some new options: #Option "TexturedVideo" #Option "XAALines" #Option "Crtc2Half" #Option "Int10" #Option "AGPMode2x" #Option "AGPMode4x" #Option "DigitalScreen" #Option "TV" #Option "TVStandard" #Option "CableType" #Option "UseIrqZero" #Option "NoHal" #Option "AGPMode" "1" But I cannot find them documented anywhere. Anyone have a url where I can find out what these new options do? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 19:02:53 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> References: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > XFree86-4.1 has some new options: > Some of these are pretty easy. Others I'm not so sure about. Unfortunately, I don't know what syntaxes they use. Hmm. These look like Matrox options. I've seen them all before, but I haven't really used them.. > #Option "TexturedVideo" Instead of doing video overlay, fake it with an OpenGL texture. (I assume, since turning on this option also disables DRI). > #Option "XAALines" > #Option "Crtc2Half" Not sure.. > #Option "Int10" Might have something to do with `booting' the card on a non-Intel box. Sparcs, PPCs, etc. But I'm not sure.. (BTW, I just saw an interesting note the other day: http://advogato.org/person/davem/diary.html?start=11) > #Option "AGPMode2x" > #Option "AGPMode4x" Run the card in AGP mode 2x or 4x > #Option "DigitalScreen" Is this card or head powering a digital LCD? > #Option "TV" Same as above, but for television output. > #Option "TVStandard" You probably want to put NTSC here ;-) > #Option "CableType" This should allow you to tell the card (when outputting to a TV) if it's running over S-Video or RCA cables. > #Option "UseIrqZero" Dunno. > #Option "NoHal" Don't load the Matrox HALlib module. Probably only useful if you don't need dual-head or some of the other features provided by the HAL library. Also good for debugging, I 'spect.. > #Option "AGPMode" "1" Probably the same as the above AGPMode[24]x settings, though I suspect this will be the `standard' way of doing it across different cards. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Error 15 - Unable to exit / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Windows. Try the door. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010614/d5ac7ae4/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 14 19:18:32 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:02:53PM -0500 References: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): I'm having problem with X in xinerama mode. My 2nd monitor gives me a ugly block cursor for the mouse. The config worked fine with 4.0.3. I have played with the hardware and software cursor stuff. But nothing fixes the problem. > Might have something to do with `booting' the card on a non-Intel box. > Sparcs, PPCs, etc. But I'm not sure.. (BTW, I just saw an interesting > note the other day: http://advogato.org/person/davem/diary.html?start=11) > > > #Option "AGPMode2x" > > #Option "AGPMode4x" > > Run the card in AGP mode 2x or 4x Can you explain these options more? What does that mean 2x faster? 2x wider? > > #Option "NoHal" > > Don't load the Matrox HALlib module. Probably only useful if you don't > need dual-head or some of the other features provided by the HAL library. > Also good for debugging, I 'spect.. I need dual-head, so maybe I need to Option "Hal"? Dual head is working except for the mouse problem. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 19:40:58 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> References: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010614194058.13023f9c.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > > > #Option "AGPMode2x" > > > #Option "AGPMode4x" > > > > Run the card in AGP mode 2x or 4x > > Can you explain these options more? What does that mean 2x faster? 2x > wider? As far as I know, AGP 2x is twice as fast as ordinary AGP, 4x is for times as fast. The ability to use these is probably limited by the video card and by your motherboard. I imagine a G400 or better can do 4x, and motherboards made in the last year or so can probably at least do 2x. I don't know about your mouse cursor problem. I would have just played with the hardware/software cursor settings, but you already did that.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Linux: because a PC is a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ terrible thing to waste \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010614/0f12e9ee/attachment.pgp From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 14 19:42:55 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: <20010614174746.52cd75c7.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On that note I recall hearing from our engineers (I work at a megaco that makes floppies) that the stray electrical trickle or so on a R/W head can and does attract dust and may pose issues to the data it is in immediate contact with. Josh __SIG__ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Mike Hicks wrote: > Joshua Jore wrote: > > > > Ok, that's all reasonable. I'm still prejudiced against them > > but that can remain my opinion. > > Hey, I'm with you -- I must have an electromagnetic field around me that > totally wrecks floppies or something. I was really happy when Steve Jobs > banished floppy drives from Apples > > However, if people insist on using floppies, I'd really recommend ejecting > them after the system has been booted. There's no telling how much dust > could collect if that little window stays open. > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ OK, so what's the speed > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ of dark? > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 14 20:41:21 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 and Mozilla don't work? Message-ID: <20010614204121.B15516@real-time.com> Sigh. The trials of upgrading to new stuff ahead of the curve.... % ./run-mozilla.sh MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=. LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.:./plugins LIBRARY_PATH=.:./components SHLIB_PATH=. LIBPATH=. ADDON_PATH=. MOZ_PROGRAM=./mozilla-bin MOZ_TOOLKIT= moz_debug=0 moz_debugger= ************************************************** nsNativeComponentLoader: SelfRegisterDll(/home/tanner/tmp/mozilla-new/components/libgfx_gtk.so) Load FAILED with error: libXIE.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory ************************************************** Anyone else have mozilla not work? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 14 21:08:49 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iPlanet users? Message-ID: <20010614210849.D15516@real-time.com> Any iPlanet users on the list? I am looking to see of the java class netscape.nda.servlet.ServerPushThread has source code available? In particular, I am looking to see how they implement the doPushForMSIE() API, since IE is stupid and does not understand MultiPart Responses. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 14 21:53:01 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > On that note I recall hearing from our engineers (I work at a megaco that > makes floppies) that the stray electrical trickle or so on a R/W head can > and does attract dust and may pose issues to the data it is in immediate > contact with. So, in essence, the whole idea of the floppy was flawed? :-) If it's important, I don't use floppies anymore. They're too small to hold anything, and they're so unreliable. I've resorted to using floppies only for booting legacy hardware AKA those without bootable CDROM support. In the original instance of this thread a floppy makes sense because it's an easy way to go. If you get your distro past the size of a floppy, use a 20 or 40 MB hard drive. If you don't have one, ask the geek closest to you if they're willing to trade one of theirs for beer. -Brian From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 14 22:07:53 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> References: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010614220753.75f2d32d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > > I'm having problem with X in xinerama mode. My 2nd monitor gives me a > ugly block cursor for the mouse. > > The config worked fine with 4.0.3. I have played with the hardware and > software cursor stuff. But nothing fixes the problem. There's an extremely remote chance that this could fix the problem. I found it in RedHat's 4.0.3 source RPM.. The only reason I'm suggesting it is because it has `cursor' in the name of the patch.. (Sylpheed's going to mangle this, obviously..) --- XFree86-4.0.3/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/mga/mga_dacG.c.mga-hwcursor-fix Sun Mar 25 22:21:18 2001 +++ XFree86-4.0.3/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/mga/mga_dacG.c Sun Mar 25 22:22:14 2001 @@ -825,7 +825,10 @@ while( INREG( MGAREG_Status ) & 0x08 ); /* Output position - "only" 12 bits of location documented */ - OUTREG( RAMDAC_OFFSET + MGA1064_CUR_XLOW, (y << 16) | (x & 0xFFFF)); + OUTREG8( RAMDAC_OFFSET + MGA1064_CUR_XLOW, (x & 0xFF)); + OUTREG8( RAMDAC_OFFSET + MGA1064_CUR_XHI, (x & 0xF00) >> 8); + OUTREG8( RAMDAC_OFFSET + MGA1064_CUR_YLOW, (y & 0xFF)); + OUTREG8( RAMDAC_OFFSET + MGA1064_CUR_YHI, (y & 0xF00) >> 8); } static void -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Grow your own dope... / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ plant a person. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010614/15344955/attachment.pgp From spencer at sihope.com Thu Jun 14 17:51:57 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer underground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> References: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01061417515700.10856@localhost.localdomain> > > > > > #Option "AGPMode2x" > > > #Option "AGPMode4x" > > > > Run the card in AGP mode 2x or 4x > > Can you explain these options more? What does that mean 2x faster? 2x > wider? > The AGP bus runs at 66mhz. Running 2xAGP means that your card is running at 133mhz and 4x means 266mhz. These numbers are, however, misnomers. Both the mainboard and the video card need to support the same settings to work. Much like anything else, different match-ups produce different results. Your bios will tell you if it supports 4x AGP. Some 4xAGP cards have a jumper on them to enable 4x. I have a Tyan 1864 that says it does 4x, but the system crashes when enabled. There are alot of issues to consider when running your AGP bus faster than 133, but that is another issue entirely. check out this article it explains a bit about the wonders of the accelerated graphics port. From mccloud at wiredhot.net Thu Jun 14 23:01:16 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest/M$N Deal In-Reply-To: References: <20010613114503.C16031@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B29423C.4154.D028C6@localhost> On 13 Jun 2001, at 11:55, Nate Carlson wrote: > >you would get more business. > Yeah, we are actually already in the process of redesigning our entire > web site to make it.. well, usable, and accurate. > > But, I've forwarded your complaints on to the proper person anyways. TCLUG pricing? Free DNS for business's? 8 IP addresses free? Please forward my complaints to. I just went over my pricing and decided against real-time because of the pricing posted on the website. Its to late to change now, I'm dedicated. I spent way to much money already. Bob From ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com Thu Jun 14 18:15:30 2001 From: ming at mongo.evil-overlords.com (Ming) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: well actually I would rather use a bootable CDROM but I don't have a burner.... On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > On that note I recall hearing from our engineers (I work at a megaco that > > makes floppies) that the stray electrical trickle or so on a R/W head can > > and does attract dust and may pose issues to the data it is in immediate > > contact with. > > So, in essence, the whole idea of the floppy was flawed? :-) > > If it's important, I don't use floppies anymore. They're too small to > hold anything, and they're so unreliable. I've resorted to using floppies > only for booting legacy hardware AKA those without bootable CDROM > support. In the original instance of this thread a floppy makes sense > because it's an easy way to go. If you get your distro past the size of a > floppy, use a 20 or 40 MB hard drive. If you don't have one, ask the geek > closest to you if they're willing to trade one of theirs for beer. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Thu Jun 14 23:40:55 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iPlanet users? References: <20010614210849.D15516@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B2991D7.8BBACC83@mninter.net> We use iPlanet almost exclusively at work. Let me ask our web admin on this tomorrow and I'll let you know. My guess is no, as it is a proprietary software still. Bob Tanner wrote: > > Any iPlanet users on the list? > > I am looking to see of the java class netscape.nda.servlet.ServerPushThread has > source code available? > > In particular, I am looking to see how they implement the doPushForMSIE() API, > since IE is stupid and does not understand MultiPart Responses. From mend0070 at umn.edu Thu Jun 14 23:43:00 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy Message-ID: <200106150443.XAA25096@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 14 Jun 2001, Brian is alleged to have said: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > On that note I recall hearing from our engineers (I work at a megaco that > > makes floppies) that the stray electrical trickle or so on a R/W head can > > and does attract dust and may pose issues to the data it is in immediate > > contact with. > > So, in essence, the whole idea of the floppy was flawed? :-) No, not at all. Anything electrical turns into a "dust magnet." Remember, floppies were never designed to *replace* hard drives. And the same issues occur on magnetic tape heads, they're just slightly less exposed on a cartridge drive, and most open reel data decks used to live in filtered air cooled computer rooms (not clean rooms, but better than office air.) From gary at archdirect.com Fri Jun 15 00:31:55 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy References: Message-ID: <3B299DCB.609EE137@archdirect.com> Please take me off your e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010615/f61b7fdf/gary.vcf From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 15 01:32:59 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614220753.75f2d32d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:07:53PM -0500 References: <20010614183033.B9511@real-time.com> <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010614191832.E9511@real-time.com> <20010614220753.75f2d32d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010615013259.A31207@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > --- > XFree86-4.0.3/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/mga/mga_dacG.c.mga-hwcursor-fix Thanks, but that patch was already in there. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From seg at haxxed.com Fri Jun 15 04:49:21 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG]new linux install)) References: <3B28E522.106AEEA7@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <3B29DA21.C0745CB4@haxxed.com> Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > Why dont you just go to wall mart and buy a mp3 playing cd player for $95. > Its cheap and easy to use. Plus you can even take it outside of yor car. Most likely its one of these: http://www.kanguru.com/cdmp3.html I have one and its pretty craptacular. It doesn't read cdrw's. Its skip protection is a joke when playing mp3s, don't plan on walking around with it. In the car it sits in my lap taking advantage of the body's natural shock absorbtion. It can't seek through mp3s which is a big minus when you're listening to 72 minute long trance mixes and car trips are 40min at most. But its better than nothing, and I can carry my entire tunnel trance force collection on a CD, where my friend with a 128mb (64mb built in, and a 64mb card) Rio500 can only carry at most two, re-encoded at 112kbps to fit in 64mb since the Rio won't let a single mp3 cross over from internal ram to the external... One of these days I'll finish building that car mp3 player. Did anyone else snag a free Vacuum Fluorescent Display from Noritake at Strictly eBuisness? ;) From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Fri Jun 15 08:24:45 2001 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG]new linux install)) References: <3B28E522.106AEEA7@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <3B2A0C9D.B80AEC5D@securecomputing.com> If that comment was addressed to me (not sure if was back to Yaron or not)... This was going down in early to mid '99. If I recall correctly, the first commercial MP3 players were just coming to market and cost more than the parts he bought to build his own. Plus it was just a fun project for him. Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > Why dont you just go to wall mart and buy a mp3 playing cd player for $95. > Its cheap and easy to use. Plus you can even take it outside of yor car. > > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > > > > > The only problem he was having was that when he trained the speech > > > software it often wouldn't work due to road noise. Ah well... it was > > > still a pretty cool idea. Still worked great indoors. -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 15 08:27:54 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Certainly not, it's just that standard practice has you storing your floppies in a box or something similar. The floppy diskette system is not designed to be a storage mechanism for a floppy. This just means that you are expected to boot your machine from floppy, remove the disk and store it elsewhere. Of course, if your machine reboots suddenly you've got a problem. Here is why you (a) run diskless workstations that boot from the network or (b) put at least *something* on a local hard drive. I would be aghast to find a production machine that was dependant on having the floppy disk physically mounted all the time. Mostly this is just a case where something is certainly possible, it's just not advisable. Josh __SIG__ On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Joshua Jore wrote: > > > On that note I recall hearing from our engineers (I work at a megaco that > > makes floppies) that the stray electrical trickle or so on a R/W head can > > and does attract dust and may pose issues to the data it is in immediate > > contact with. > > So, in essence, the whole idea of the floppy was flawed? :-) > > If it's important, I don't use floppies anymore. They're too small to > hold anything, and they're so unreliable. I've resorted to using floppies > only for booting legacy hardware AKA those without bootable CDROM > support. In the original instance of this thread a floppy makes sense > because it's an easy way to go. If you get your distro past the size of a > floppy, use a 20 or 40 MB hard drive. If you don't have one, ask the geek > closest to you if they're willing to trade one of theirs for beer. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 15 03:00:06 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG]new linux install)) References: <3B28E522.106AEEA7@usfamily.net> <3B2A0C9D.B80AEC5D@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: <3B29C085.427C48B0@usfamily.net> Well this really was a message for everyone. I hear lots of people talking about building an MP3 player for their car, but I think that this is the easiest way to go. Since they already make portable cd players that play mp3's why go through the hassle to build your own? Jesse Erdmann wrote: > If that comment was addressed to me (not sure if was back to Yaron or > not)... > > This was going down in early to mid '99. If I recall correctly, the > first commercial MP3 players were just coming to market and cost more > than the parts he bought to build his own. Plus it was just a fun > project for him. > > Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > > Why dont you just go to wall mart and buy a mp3 playing cd player for $95. > > Its cheap and easy to use. Plus you can even take it outside of yor car. > > > > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > > > > > > > The only problem he was having was that when he trained the speech > > > > software it often wouldn't work due to road noise. Ah well... it was > > > > still a pretty cool idea. Still worked great indoors. > > -- > > Jesse Erdmann > Engineer > Secure Computing Corp. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010615/f3c580ed/drew.vcf From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 15 09:03:25 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was (RE: OT: Mpls Weather (was: Re:[TCLUG]new linux install)) In-Reply-To: <3B29C085.427C48B0@usfamily.net> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > to go. Since they already make portable cd players that play mp3's why go > through the hassle to build your own? For fun? (: Or maybe you want more than 650MB? Aiwa make a Car-CD-MP3 player that's like $300 though. And, like I said, I don't want a car one (: -Yaron -- From andy at theasis.com Fri Jun 15 04:07:26 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > For fun? (: Or maybe you want more than 650MB? > > Aiwa make a Car-CD-MP3 player that's like $300 though. The portables that play from CDs are really no less bulky than the ones that use HDs. Those use 2.5" laptop drives, which are easily obtainable in 20G capacity. > And, like I said, I don't want a car one (: I want one that's smaller than my Nokia 8260, but which has interchangeable media. Andy > > -Yaron From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 09:17:08 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot Floppy In-Reply-To: <3B299DCB.609EE137@archdirect.com> Message-ID: <20010615091708.H21645@ringworld.org> * Gary Turpening [010615 00:31]: > Please take me off your e-mail list. Thanks. tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Go to the webpage and follow the directions. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010615/9c8a6c3a/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 09:18:50 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options? In-Reply-To: <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010615091850.I21645@ringworld.org> * Mike Hicks [010614 19:03]: > Don't load the Matrox HALlib module. Probably only useful if you don't Actually, the G450 doesn't require the HALlib to do dualhead. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010615/e2fa7991/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Fri Jun 15 10:56:32 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iPlanet users? References: <20010614210849.D15516@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B2A3030.C4D951A7@mninter.net> Okay, what I got is that he hasn't seen the code. He said that it is proprietary software and that there'd be copyright issues But if you run it through a decompiler or bugger you could see the code. However, you probably wouldn't be able to use it at all because of it's closed nature. Shawn Bob Tanner wrote: > > Any iPlanet users on the list? > > I am looking to see of the java class netscape.nda.servlet.ServerPushThread has > source code available? > > In particular, I am looking to see how they implement the doPushForMSIE() API, > since IE is stupid and does not understand MultiPart Responses. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jun 15 12:09:44 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280902@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> > I want one that's smaller than my Nokia 8260, but which has > interchangeable media. Yeah, well I want one built into my Nokia 8260 with recording capabilities. Then I can record conversations with it. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: andy@theasis.com [mailto:andy@theasis.com] > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 4:07 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was > > > > For fun? (: Or maybe you want more than 650MB? > > > > Aiwa make a Car-CD-MP3 player that's like $300 though. > > The portables that play from CDs are really no less bulky > than the ones > that use HDs. Those use 2.5" laptop drives, which are easily > obtainable in > 20G capacity. > > > And, like I said, I don't want a car one (: > > I want one that's smaller than my Nokia 8260, but which has > interchangeable media. > > Andy > > > > > -Yaron > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 15 06:52:22 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280902@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3B29F6F6.E0516843@usfamily.net> Personally I dont think that Integrated components are a good idea. It seems that when ever they try to mix two things they both endup sucking. For example a watch and a digital camera. The watch works fine, but the digital camera is a peace of crap. For the same reason I think that a phone and an mp3 player, or a palm pilot with a digital camera, or a palm with an MP3 player are not good ideas. Because you loose the quality in both. "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > I want one that's smaller than my Nokia 8260, but which has > > interchangeable media. > > Yeah, well I want one built into my Nokia 8260 with recording capabilities. > Then I can record conversations with it. :) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: andy@theasis.com [mailto:andy@theasis.com] > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 4:07 AM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: OT: Portable MP3 player was > > > > > > > For fun? (: Or maybe you want more than 650MB? > > > > > > Aiwa make a Car-CD-MP3 player that's like $300 though. > > > > The portables that play from CDs are really no less bulky > > than the ones > > that use HDs. Those use 2.5" laptop drives, which are easily > > obtainable in > > 20G capacity. > > > > > And, like I said, I don't want a car one (: > > > > I want one that's smaller than my Nokia 8260, but which has > > interchangeable media. > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > -Yaron > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010615/d97b95db/drew.vcf From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Jun 15 14:23:30 2001 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem compiling modules with Redhat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <20010530225711.E857@real-time.com> References: <200105310248.f4V2m2K15789@sprite.real-time.com> <000f01c0e984$d3fc5c20$cd8be23f@csi.net> <20010530225711.E857@real-time.com> Message-ID: <992633010.31450.7.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> I'm trying to compile some modules on my Redhat 7.1 box but when I do I get an error: /usr/include/linux/modversions.h:1:2: #error Modules should never use kernel-headers system headers, /usr/include/linux/modversions.h:2:2: #error but headers from an appropriate kernel-source I'm told I need to install the correct kernel-source. Anybody know what kernel-source package I should install? I don't want to mess up my system too much. I installed the kernel-source that was on Red Carpet (because installing stuff with Red Carpet is fun!) but that didn't seem to make any difference. Thanks, Brady From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 15:14:46 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem compiling modules with Redhat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <992633010.31450.7.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: run uname -a to determine what version of the linux kernel you're running. You need the same kernel headers as your running kernel. If you compiled your own kernel, point the thing your compiling at that. You don't need to find it as an rpm, you can grab kernel source from ftp.us.kernel.org and extract it to /usr/src/linux (clean up symlinks, extract, create new symlinks) or extract it to your home directory (or where ever it won't overwrite soemthing). Is there a standard enviorment varible for specifing where your kernel sources are? KERNER_DIR or something? Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From kbullock at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 15:54:19 2001 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin R. Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <3B29204B.E973E52F@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jason Hataye wrote: > Here's what I want to DO: > 128 MB RAM > One 3 gig hard drive (in second IDE slot) > One 30 gig hard drive (in first IDE slot) > Red Hat Linux 7.1, give the partition about 2/3 of my HD space > Windoze 98, give the partition about 1/3 of my HD space > Use LILO to boot Here's how I would do it: 1. Make all the hardware play nice the way you want it. 2. Partition the drive from some manner of Linux rescue disk, giving Windows the beginning of the drive (minus a /boot, if you need it, and possibly swap - I like to keep that as a primary partition). 3. After the drive is partitioned, install Windows. It will overwrite your MBR, of course. 4. Boot with the Linux installer, make filesystems on the Linux partitions you've created, and install Linux. Make it install LILO on the master boot record. 5. If the Linux install didn't automatically add a stanza to lilo.conf for your Windows install, add one. 6. Do you need to share files from the 3GB drive between Linux and Windows? If so, copy all the files over to the 30GB drive, format the 3GB as vfat/fat32, and copy the files back over. Also, if you're open to experimentation with different distributions, this would be an excellent opportunity. :) Ones I would recommend trying are: - Progeny: nice installer and some good config tools. If you do this, *don't* create a /boot partition. Progeny uses GRUB instead of LILO, so the kernel doesn't need to be below the 1024th cylinder. - Debian: more command-line based, but excellent for configuration and maintenance - SuSE: solid install and configuration tools - YaST has been around for a long time and covers most config tasks. > QUESTION: Should I leave the 3gigHD "as is?" I'm afraid of having two > linux kernels, one on each HD. I can't just wipe out my 3gig HD because > I need the data. What do I do here? I see two possible choices, but > don't know how to execute either: 1) Have a kernel on each HD, but make > the computer only use the new one which is on the 30gigHD. --or-- 2) > Delete the old kernel (and any other "operating system" stuff, but > nothing else) on the 3gig HD. Any thoughts on what to do? There's no need to worry about having an extra kernel sitting around, except that it will be wasting space that could be taken up by other files. The default lilo.conf that gets installed on the MBR of the new drive won't boot the secondary drive unless you add a stanza for it. The BIOS will not touch the secondary drive for booting - it will only go to the first IDE hard drive. Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 16:22:46 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > There's no need to worry about having an extra kernel sitting around, Sure there is. You can say: Look how long I've gone without reinstalling my Linux box? 2.0.36...and as a fall back when you install a new kernel. But yeah, you don't need them. I finially got around to cleaning out /boot. Only have 3 kernels sitting around now. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 15 17:11:29 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem compiling modules with Redhat 7.1 In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:14:46PM -0500 References: <992633010.31450.7.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: <20010615171129.A484@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:14:46PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > run uname -a to determine what version of the linux kernel you're running. > > You need the same kernel headers as your running kernel. If you compiled > your own kernel, point the thing your compiling at that. You don't need to > find it as an rpm, you can grab kernel source from ftp.us.kernel.org and > extract it to /usr/src/linux (clean up symlinks, extract, create new > symlinks) or extract it to your home directory (or where ever it won't > overwrite soemthing). Do _NOT_ extract the kernel in /usr/src/linux. That place is for the distribution-managed sources and includes. There have been a few threads on LKML and Linus's opinion is that /usr/src/linux is not good. Extract it into /usr/local/src/linux instead. > Is there a standard enviorment varible for specifing where your kernel > sources are? KERNER_DIR or something? Why would you need something like this? Usually modules not distributed with the kernel like udf, alsa, etc. let you specify the kernel source directory as an argument to the "configure" script. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 15 17:31:44 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just rehashing old business... Any recent rev of LILO (like in the last year or so) doesn't care about that old 1024 cylinder limit anymore. Assuming the distro is recent there isn't any particular reason to have a /boot partition. Josh __SIG__ On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Kevin R. Bullock wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jason Hataye wrote: > > > Here's what I want to DO: > > 128 MB RAM > > One 3 gig hard drive (in second IDE slot) > > One 30 gig hard drive (in first IDE slot) > > Red Hat Linux 7.1, give the partition about 2/3 of my HD space > > Windoze 98, give the partition about 1/3 of my HD space > > Use LILO to boot > > Here's how I would do it: > 1. Make all the hardware play nice the way you want it. > 2. Partition the drive from some manner of Linux rescue disk, giving > Windows the beginning of the drive (minus a /boot, if you need it, and > possibly swap - I like to keep that as a primary partition). > 3. After the drive is partitioned, install Windows. It will overwrite > your MBR, of course. > 4. Boot with the Linux installer, make filesystems on the Linux > partitions you've created, and install Linux. Make it install LILO on > the master boot record. > 5. If the Linux install didn't automatically add a stanza to lilo.conf > for your Windows install, add one. > 6. Do you need to share files from the 3GB drive between Linux and > Windows? If so, copy all the files over to the 30GB drive, format the > 3GB as vfat/fat32, and copy the files back over. > > Also, if you're open to experimentation with different distributions, > this would be an excellent opportunity. :) Ones I would recommend trying > are: > - Progeny: nice installer and some good config tools. If you do this, > *don't* create a /boot partition. Progeny uses GRUB instead of LILO, > so the kernel doesn't need to be below the 1024th cylinder. > - Debian: more command-line based, but excellent for configuration and > maintenance > - SuSE: solid install and configuration tools - YaST has been around for > a long time and covers most config tasks. > > > QUESTION: Should I leave the 3gigHD "as is?" I'm afraid of having two > > linux kernels, one on each HD. I can't just wipe out my 3gig HD because > > I need the data. What do I do here? I see two possible choices, but > > don't know how to execute either: 1) Have a kernel on each HD, but make > > the computer only use the new one which is on the 30gigHD. --or-- 2) > > Delete the old kernel (and any other "operating system" stuff, but > > nothing else) on the 3gig HD. Any thoughts on what to do? > > There's no need to worry about having an extra kernel sitting around, > except that it will be wasting space that could be taken up by other > files. The default lilo.conf that gets installed on the MBR of the new > drive won't boot the secondary drive unless you add a stanza for it. The > BIOS will not touch the secondary drive for booting - it will only go to > the first IDE hard drive. > > Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa > Kevin R. Bullock > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 15 17:55:28 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smallest memory footprint for a GUI web browser? In-Reply-To: <20010613212342.H9995@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:23:42PM -0500 References: <20010613212342.H9995@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010615175528.E24212@real-time.com> > Anyone have any recommendations on the smallest memory footprint for a GUI web > browser? Alan Cox is working on a simple one for PDAs: http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/tuxurf.gif not much information about it, tho. I seem to remember something about it only taking up 42K of disk space... Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 18:09:47 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem compiling modules with Redhat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <20010615171129.A484@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: > Do _NOT_ extract the kernel in /usr/src/linux. That place is for the > distribution-managed sources and includes. There have been a few threads > on LKML and Linus's opinion is that /usr/src/linux is not good. > > Extract it into /usr/local/src/linux instead. With modern distros (Red Hat and Debian for sure) it is not an issue. From memory the argument was that /usr/src/linux contained the headers that glibc was compiled agnist. You'll now find those headers under /usr/include/linux. Debian kernel-sourcew package extract to /usr/src, and nothing breaks. In the end its more of a security thing. With the sources in /usr/src, everyone can see them, and perhaps modify. And you don't need to compile the kernel as root, and unless you setup your group permissions properly you have to do so with kernel source in /usr/src. I personally don't see anything wrong with compiling stuff in /usr/src. I add myself to the src group and off I go. I feel this argument is dated, and since EVERYONE puts the source there anyway it's the expected course of action. Not that going with the flock is a good thing, but I'm definitly not running tward any cliffs so I feel OK about it. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 15 18:16:26 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem compiling modules with Redhat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <20010615171129.A484@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 05:11:29PM -0500 References: <992633010.31450.7.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> <20010615171129.A484@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010615181626.G24212@real-time.com> > Extract it into /usr/local/src/linux instead. make a dir under $HOME for your kernel source. that way you don't have to be root to work on it. (or muck with permissions on the /usr/local/src tree). I understand this is what Linus does. /usr is supposed to be immutable (at least as I understand the filesystem standard). you should be able to mount it read-only, under ideal circumstances. /usr/src is a legacy from when user's home dirs were under /usr. really, one should consider making a /home/src tree, symlinked from /usr/src, if one uses /usr/src on a regular basis (such as those of us building RPMs). (not that I've actually tried this; it's just an idea I'm kicking out). Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 15 18:24:09 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: G450 (was: Re: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options?) In-Reply-To: <20010615091850.I21645@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:18:50AM -0500 References: <20010614190253.52e9c81b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010615091850.I21645@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010615182409.H24212@real-time.com> > > Don't load the Matrox HALlib module. Probably only useful if you don't > Actually, the G450 doesn't require the HALlib to do dualhead. with X 4.1, or older X vers? btw, where can I find debian src packages for X 4.1? I'm having issues with X 4.0.3 all of a sudden... it'll die (all that shows in the logs is a window manager segfault); and hang the framebuffer, such that one needs to reboot to reset the thing. also, has anyone gotten a framebuffer console to work with a G450? I tried the matroxfb kernel options; but the Framebuffer-HOWTO is awfully out of date, and indeed may be wrong in some places... Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 15 20:26:00 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem compiling modules with Redhat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <20010615181626.G24212@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > make a dir under $HOME for your kernel source. that way you don't have to be > root to work on it. (or muck with permissions on the /usr/local/src tree). > I understand this is what Linus does. Ever since Linus (and I think Alan too) started screaming about people un-tarring kernels in /usr/src/linux and doing all the symlinking to the new headers I've un-tarred to my home directory and done a straight build without any symlinking. That way I know gcc won't complain about the new headers. It's worked very well for me. -Brian From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 15 22:40:45 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:37 2005 Subject: G450 (was: Re: [TCLUG] XFree86-4.1 new options?) In-Reply-To: <20010615182409.H24212@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010615224045.L21645@ringworld.org> * Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [010615 18:25]: > with X 4.1, or older X vers? I'm doing it with 4.0.3, shipped with progeny. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010615/db1588a8/attachment.pgp From gabe at msi.umn.edu Sat Jun 16 08:11:57 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: ; from moomonk@rogue.electricgod.net on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 05:31:44PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010616081157.A29083@squall.localdomain> On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 05:31:44PM -0500, Joshua Jore wrote: > Just rehashing old business... Any recent rev of LILO (like in the last > year or so) doesn't care about that old 1024 cylinder limit anymore. > Assuming the distro is recent there isn't any particular reason to have a > /boot partition. > > Josh Yup. I currently have / at the 12 GB mark on my RAID. RedHat's Disk Druid refused to let me do that, so I just used fdisk. I was pretty shocked that thet Disk Druid wouldn't do it, since lilo hasn't had that 1024 cyclinder limit for over a year. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Jun 16 11:14:46 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <20010616081157.A29083@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Gabe Turner wrote: > Yup. I currently have / at the 12 GB mark on my RAID. RedHat's Disk Druid > refused to let me do that, so I just used fdisk. I was pretty shocked that > thet Disk Druid wouldn't do it, since lilo hasn't had that 1024 cyclinder > limit for over a year. That's because Disk Druid sucks. ALWAYS fdisk. -Brian From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Sat Jun 16 12:33:22 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [OT] [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Huh. So *that's* what I'm missing by not using Red Hat! Hey, out of curiousity has anyone here ever tried to get PostgreSQL or something similar to run on NT? I'm just asking cuz the desktop NT box is faster and it'd be nice to offload that from the lil linux server. Josh __SIG__ On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Gabe Turner wrote: > > > Yup. I currently have / at the 12 GB mark on my RAID. RedHat's Disk Druid > > refused to let me do that, so I just used fdisk. I was pretty shocked that > > thet Disk Druid wouldn't do it, since lilo hasn't had that 1024 cyclinder > > limit for over a year. > > That's because Disk Druid sucks. ALWAYS fdisk. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sat Jun 16 13:23:56 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new linux install In-Reply-To: <20010616081157.A29083@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010616132356.M21645@ringworld.org> * Gabe Turner [010616 08:18]: > refused to let me do that, so I just used fdisk. I was pretty shocked that > thet Disk Druid wouldn't do it, since lilo hasn't had that 1024 cyclinder > limit for over a year. Grub and GNU Parted, baby! -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010616/216aed1b/attachment.pgp From nate at techie.com Sat Jun 16 22:36:51 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: tail for DOS In-Reply-To: ; from foeclan@winternet.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 02:30:35PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010616223651.A1199@mediaone.net> Way back when I was using Windows still, I found this site where they had ported ncftp to Win95/DOS. He as some other UNIX utils ported too. Most of the stuff is really old, but still useful. http://virtunix.itribe.net/ Nate Straz From seg at haxxed.com Sun Jun 17 05:07:25 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! References: <992633010.31450.7.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> <20010615171129.A484@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B2C815D.80B4B4F7@haxxed.com> Okay, completely on accident I managed to get the binary opengl supporting nvidia drivers to work with xinerama. A clean reboot was probably the key. ;P http://www.haxxed.com/random/openglmultihead.jpg HELL FREAKIN YEAH! Screenshot swappage killed the framerate, I get about 30fps at that point in the level, and ~50fps everywhere else, with a TNT2 Ultra in a 1024x768 window in 32bit color. The right screen is a TNT1 run by the stock nv driver, and the left screen is a 3dfx banshee. And the textures are gone because its competition settings. ;) From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun Jun 17 14:49:39 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3B2C815D.80B4B4F7@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20010617144939.O21645@ringworld.org> * Callum Lerwick [010617 08:02]: > And the textures are gone because its competition settings. ;) You know, I like it when games force graphics settings onto people. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010617/fe1a223f/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Sun Jun 17 19:47:33 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd License Message-ID: <992825253.4690.0.camel@ares> Someone take a look at http://www.enthdimension.com.au/software/fm/index.dsh and explain to me how it can be licensed the way it is. Does this not seem wrong to you? I am by no means a GPL zealot, but I am curious how they can code something using GPL, and lGPL libs and then have a definitely closed license. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun Jun 17 20:47:29 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd License In-Reply-To: <992825253.4690.0.camel@ares> Message-ID: <20010617204729.Q21645@ringworld.org> * Ben Lutgens [010617 19:53]: > am by no means a GPL zealot, but I am curious how they can code > something using GPL, and lGPL libs and then have a definitely closed Which libs are GPL that it is linked against? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010617/67fa4500/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jun 17 21:08:04 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wierd License In-Reply-To: <992825253.4690.0.camel@ares>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 07:47:33PM -0500 References: <992825253.4690.0.camel@ares> Message-ID: <20010617210803.A27727@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 07:47:33PM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Someone take a look at > http://www.enthdimension.com.au/software/fm/index.dsh and explain to me > how it can be licensed the way it is. Does this not seem wrong to you? I > am by no means a GPL zealot, but I am curious how they can code > something using GPL, and lGPL libs and then have a definitely closed > license. What Scott said. If they're using LGPL libraries, that only imposes the restriction that they make it possible to replace the library with another version of it, either by linking dynamically to the library or providing compiled object code and instructions (such as a makefile) for linking that object code against the LGPLed library. After all, LGPL was created specifically to help people create Free libraries that could be used in non-Free applications. OTOH, if they're statically linking to libs that are under the full GPL, then there's a problem. (If they link dynamically to a GPLed .so, that's not a real clear-cut case under GPL v2, but I'm inclined to say that it would probably be technically permissible, despite violating the likely intent of the library's creator. But IANAL, IANRMS, etc.) -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From jethro at freakzilla.com Sun Jun 17 23:57:30 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki payment Message-ID: Hey all, I guess I should send this cause I'm being emaild about it... NO, I have NOT sent out emails with payment instructions I've been totally swamped the past week and this weekend (my turn to be on-call, then my turn to go have fun. PS don't watch Tomb Raider). I'll do my best to get them out tomorrow. Brief description: you'll have to mail me checks, OR pay Andy via PayPall and then he'll mail me checks. Check mailed to me will NOT be deposited until Loki have my CC and have confirmed the order. If anything goes wrong prior to that, I shred the checks. I do NOT place the order with Loki until I have got payment from everyone. Again, hopefully tomorrow, and I apologize to all of you who have been emailing me to ask stuff. -Yaron -- From jasonj at talkware.net Mon Jun 18 07:29:20 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache, User personal Web Space, And cgi-bin Message-ID: <3B2DF420.DE99CDAA@talkware.net> Does anyone have any links or advice on securing down a box that is going to host people's personal web space with a working cgi-bin for each user. The higher up's want this, so there is no turning it off. So far I am using proftpd with the mod_sql compiled in. This setups up fake users that authenticate via mysql. When the user logs into the ftp server for the first time, proftpd creates there user directory at the location specified in the database under "homedir". This is chrooted so the user can not get back any directories. If the user wants to execute cgi scripts they need to make a cgi-bin directory in there homedir. Apache is set to serve those user directories and to allow scripts in homedirs/*/cgi-bin. That part all works fine. I am just concerned about security. From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 18 08:49:03 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache, User personal Web Space, And cgi-bin In-Reply-To: <3B2DF420.DE99CDAA@talkware.net> Message-ID: You could use cgiwrap to execute the cgi as the user owning the webspace instead of the webserver. First thing that comes to mind anyway. http://freshmeat.net/projects/cgiwrap/ Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From thomas at stderr.net Mon Jun 18 09:19:42 2001 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache, User personal Web Space, And cgi-bin In-Reply-To: ; from zibby@ringworld.org on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 08:49:03AM -0500 References: <3B2DF420.DE99CDAA@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20010618161942.H31253@io.stderr.net> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 08:49:03AM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > You could use cgiwrap to execute the cgi as the user owning the webspace > instead of the webserver. First thing that comes to mind anyway. > > http://freshmeat.net/projects/cgiwrap/ As I understood the first post he doesn't actually have users on the system (proftpd users in sql?) so that wouldn't work. What I would do is probably run the webserver as nobody/nogroup and make sure that nothing is writable by that user/group. If on the other hand he has actual users on the system I would go for suexec that comes with Apache. just my $.02 -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jun 18 10:13:37 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache, User personal Web Space, And cgi-bin In-Reply-To: <20010618161942.H31253@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Thomas Eibner wrote: > As I understood the first post he doesn't actually have users on the > system (proftpd users in sql?) so that wouldn't work. What I would > do is probably run the webserver as nobody/nogroup and make sure that > nothing is writable by that user/group. s/nobody nogroup/httpd httpd/ (or similar). nobody is NOT designed to be used as a generic user. lots of other programs use it (incorrectly). IIRC, it was created to be used for NFS, and NFS only.. you are much safer using a user for the webserver itself. > If on the other hand he has actual users on the system I would go for > suexec that comes with Apache. but of course. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From peter.clark at tides.com Mon Jun 18 10:07:09 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? Message-ID: <200106181530.f5IFUwK22856@sprite.real-time.com> First, thank you Andy for the tip on how to get the sound working. For some reason, the Progeny install didn't catch the on-board audio, but adding modprobe via82cxxx_audio to /etc/modules did the trick. Nice and simple, and the sound really isn't too bad. I'm listening to a CD right now (Beethoven's Piano Sonata #8) and it sounds just fine. So many thanks. Ok, now the fun part. Any suggestions for converting an ext2 root partition to ReiserFS? I've found a way to reinstall Progeny to automatically use ReiserFS, but reinstalling would not be my first choice. As far as I understand matters, I would need to first copy everything to another partition, reformat the first partition, move everything back, then reformat the second partition. I have two ext2 partitions (/ and /usr/local), so that's no problem, but I would prefer step-by-step instructions. Is there any web site out there that describes this? Also, I've heard that ReiserFS has some problems with 2.4.5. Should I just grab the latest 2.4.6-pre? Let me just say that I love this list! You guys and gals are the coolest! :Peter From thomas at stderr.net Mon Jun 18 10:52:35 2001 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache, User personal Web Space, And cgi-bin In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:13:37AM -0500 References: <20010618161942.H31253@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: <20010618175234.A33106@io.stderr.net> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:13:37AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > nobody is NOT designed to be used as a generic user. lots of other > programs use it (incorrectly). IIRC, it was created to be used for NFS, > and NFS only.. you are much safer using a user for the webserver itself. You are very right, I have different users for plain apache, apache with mod_perl, etc. But Apache ships with User nobody by default, which is kind of bad then. -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jun 18 10:57:09 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache, User personal Web Space, And cgi-bin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010618105709.S21645@ringworld.org> * Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) [010618 08:55]: > http://freshmeat.net/projects/cgiwrap/ No, use suexec built into apache. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/3eb2434d/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon Jun 18 11:03:33 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore Message-ID: <3B2E2641.255D6CCE@eetc.com> http://www.suntimes.com/output/tech/cst-fin-micro01.html ...And those who knew the truth cried for they knew the masses were easily swayed and lead into The Darkness... :-) It was actually painful to read this article. I don't usually get into this kind of crap but this was just too much for me. It's disgusting. I feel unclean. sim From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Mon Jun 18 11:24:06 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: <3B2E2641.255D6CCE@eetc.com> Message-ID: This link might help you feel better: http://public.wsj.com/news/hmc/sb992819157437237260.htm James Spinti jspinti@dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 |-----Original Message----- |From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org |[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Simeon Johnston |Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:04 AM |To: TCLUG |Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore | | |http://www.suntimes.com/output/tech/cst-fin-micro01.html | |...And those who knew the truth cried for they knew the masses were |easily swayed and lead into The Darkness... |:-) | |It was actually painful to read this article. |I don't usually get into this kind of crap but this was just too much |for me. It's disgusting. |I feel unclean. | |sim | |_______________________________________________ |tclug-list mailing list |tclug-list@mn-linux.org |https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Mon Jun 18 12:11:14 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore Message-ID: Their deceit is revealed. I do feel better. >>> jspinti@dart.dartdist.com 06/18/01 11:24AM >>> This link might help you feel better: http://public.wsj.com/news/hmc/sb992819157437237260.htm From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 18 12:15:50 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, James Spinti wrote: > This link might help you feel better: > http://public.wsj.com/news/hmc/sb992819157437237260.htm :-) That is pretty interesting. Microsoft, despite their claims, is using GPL'd software. I don't remember seeing the press release from Microsoft but I saw on Netcraft some time ago that the migration from FreeBSD to IIS was complete. However, Netcraft has also proven in the past that Microsoft has been messing with their apache headers. There was a story on /. about a machine that was running IIS 4.0 on linux According to Netcraft, the server was running Apache but the headers had been changed. Might be the same type of deal here. Anyway, it's all interesting stuff. I still like the line in the June 1 article about how "Goverment should only be funding projects that are available to everyone" in the Mundie's response to government funding of GPL projects. Either Mundie doesn't understand the GPL (not likely) or he wants to make sure that YOU don't understand the GPL (oh, probably). -Brian From andy at theasis.com Mon Jun 18 07:22:49 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > That is pretty interesting. Microsoft, despite their claims, is using > GPL'd software. The article says M$ using FreeBSD. Not GPL. Andy > -Brian From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jun 18 12:30:26 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: ; from andy@theasis.com on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:22:49AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010618123026.B2973@sherohman.org> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:22:49AM -0500, andy@theasis.com wrote: > > That is pretty interesting. Microsoft, despite their claims, is using > > GPL'd software. > > The article says M$ using FreeBSD. Not GPL. That was my first thought as well, but Brian then went on to talk about forged headers from apache (claiming to be IIS, perhaps?) and a version of IIS 4.0 running on linux. Those are definitely usages of GPLed code, plus there's the possibility that the FreeBSD distribution includes some GPLed utilities or libraries, though I don't know FreeBSD well enough to comment on its actual purity; it could be 100% BSDL code or it could be a mix. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Mon Jun 18 12:34:03 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There was a link on http://linuxtoday.com a while ago about M$ running a GPLed webserver w/IPv6 on one of their development servers. Once the info became public, the link disappeared from M$ site. Must have been about 3 weeks ago now. James Spinti jspinti@dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 |-----Original Message----- |From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org |[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of andy@theasis.com |Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 12:41 PM |To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org |Subject: RE: [TCLUG] FUD gallore | | |> That is pretty interesting. Microsoft, despite their claims, is using |> GPL'd software. | |The article says M$ using FreeBSD. Not GPL. | |Andy | |> -Brian | |_______________________________________________ |tclug-list mailing list |tclug-list@mn-linux.org |https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jun 18 12:36:39 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? References: <200106181530.f5IFUwK22856@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <009a01c0f81d$3bdcccc0$3028680a@tgt.com> I do not believe there is any filesystem conversion utility from ext2 to reiserfs. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? > First, thank you Andy for the tip on how to get the sound working. > For some reason, the Progeny install didn't catch the on-board audio, but > adding modprobe via82cxxx_audio to /etc/modules did the trick. Nice and > simple, and the sound really isn't too bad. I'm listening to a CD right now > (Beethoven's Piano Sonata #8) and it sounds just fine. So many thanks. > Ok, now the fun part. Any suggestions for converting an ext2 root > partition to ReiserFS? I've found a way to reinstall Progeny to > automatically use ReiserFS, but reinstalling would not be my first choice. > As far as I understand matters, I would need to first copy everything to > another partition, reformat the first partition, move everything back, then > reformat the second partition. I have two ext2 partitions (/ and > /usr/local), so that's no problem, but I would prefer step-by-step > instructions. Is there any web site out there that describes this? > Also, I've heard that ReiserFS has some problems with 2.4.5. Should > I just grab the latest 2.4.6-pre? > Let me just say that I love this list! You guys and gals are the > coolest! > :Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From peter.clark at tides.com Mon Jun 18 13:08:07 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? Message-ID: <200106181830.f5IIUwK28312@sprite.real-time.com> Tom Veldhouse wrote: > I do not believe there is any filesystem conversion utility from ext2 > to reiserfs. Alas, you are right. However, I once read that there is a rather convoluteted way of compiling ReiserFS into the kernel, moving the root partition to another partition, reformating the old partition, moving everything back onto the now Reiser'ed partition, and then doing the same to the second partition. If anyone has the specific steps to doing so, I would be grateful. :Peter From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 18 13:40:36 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? In-Reply-To: <200106181530.f5IFUwK22856@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: There is no way to convert from ext2 to ReiserFS. The easiest way is to start by installing on ReiserFS in the first place. Here is what I did: 3 Hard drives, 1 9gb scsi, 1 4.5 gb scsi, 1 10gb ide. The 9gb is my linux drive, the 10gb ide is windows. the 4.5gb is my /opt drive (loki games, star office, and storage space for cd-images mostly.) /opt wasn't important, so I made it one big partition, mounted the drive to /mnt/new-disk, cd /, and cp -a /bin /boot /dev /etc /initrd /lib /root /sbin /tmp /usr /var, the key is leave out /proc. Leave out /dev if you use devfs, leave out /tmp if you use tmpfs. I ommited home because the 4.5 gb didn't have enough space. Home was tared to my windows drive. rebooted to the 4.5 gb disk, whiped, partitioned, and formatted the 9gb. Repeated the cp command. Rebooted to the 9gb, restored /home, and I was good to go. If you don't have an extra hard drive look into cd-r, tape, or some other form of backup. The most important part will be save /home and anything you customized in /etc. Or just backup those two important things and reinstall. I haven't heard anything about corruption problems, and haven't experienced any. I am happy that I don't have to wait for fsck if something goes wrong and my box locks. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 18 13:42:33 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? In-Reply-To: <200106181830.f5IIUwK28312@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: You may find the hard disk upgrade mini howto helpful as well: http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/Hard-Disk-Upgrade/index.html Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Mon Jun 18 13:42:22 2001 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lockdsvc connection refused?? Message-ID: <001001c0f826$69aaa290$0ad2e5cf@means.net> I am using Linux Redhat 6.2 . On startup "Starting NFS lockd" fails. I get a message that says "Lockdsvc connection refused". I am very new to Linux, and only know this has to do with the file system. I am using running HTTP & FTP on the box. Does anyone know how I can resolve this? Thank you in advance. Raymond -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/b431f77a/attachment.htm From simeonuj at eetc.com Mon Jun 18 14:18:03 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore References: Message-ID: <3B2E53C1.180C536A@eetc.com> ...And as The Darkness is slowly disipated the masses return from wence they came and wait for the next Leader Of FUD..... Yes it does. :-) sim James Spinti wrote: > This link might help you feel better: > http://public.wsj.com/news/hmc/sb992819157437237260.htm From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 18 14:33:39 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, James Spinti wrote: > There was a link on http://linuxtoday.com a while ago about M$ running a > GPLed webserver w/IPv6 on one of their development servers. Once the info > became public, the link disappeared from M$ site. Must have been about 3 > weeks ago now. I was also thinking of this, which is why I said GPL. I think Microsoft has forgotten that while they can fool the induhvidual users into belief that open source is bad, the crowd already using open source software is smarter than they are. While Mundie et al are bashing open source, the developers are busy implementing open source and masking it to look like Microsoft software. I still find it interesting that Hotmail, the internet's largest e-mail provider, is running partly on BSD because Microsoft's own software isn't good enough. -Brian From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 18 15:26:44 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL, NDA, and way too much lawyer stuff Message-ID: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> If a client requires you to sign a NDA and that agreement says they own "everything" about the project. Including all design, specifications, page layout and -source code- how does the GPL play into this? If I want to use the FSF GNU getopt, which is GPL'd, can I use that in this project? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From blayer at qwest.net Mon Jun 18 15:43:49 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL, NDA, and way too much lawyer stuff In-Reply-To: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> References: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010618154349.6bcd7084.blayer@qwest.net> I'm no lawyer, but that has never stopped me in the past... On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:26:44 -0500 "Bob Tanner" wrote: > If a client requires you to sign a NDA and that agreement says they own > "everything" about the project. Including all design, specifications, page > layout and -source code- how does the GPL play into this? It can not apply to the GPL code itself, however the specific methods and reasons for which the code is applied would fall under the definition of the client's intellectual property. This is similar to a design project which uses any proprietary components, such as integrated circuits.. an enterprise might hold IP rights to the design of their electronic device, but not the rights to the chips on the board (which are held by the chip manufacturer). Still, an engineer under an NDA might not be at liberty to divulge that "We used chip A in location B for reason C". > If I want to use the FSF GNU getopt, which is GPL'd, can I use that in this > project? I don't see why not, as long as the GPL is not violated.. If the client wishes to claim IP rights to the GNU getopt code, that is an issue between themselves and the individuals who hold the rights to the getopt code - and it is none of your concern. The catch here, is that if you are being contracted to supply unique, proprietray code to the client, the use of GPL code in it's stead may present a liability for _you_. Does that make much sense? -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From gabe at msi.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 15:56:29 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lockdsvc connection refused?? In-Reply-To: <001001c0f826$69aaa290$0ad2e5cf@means.net>; from ray@lctn.k12.mn.us on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 01:42:22PM -0500 References: <001001c0f826$69aaa290$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Message-ID: <20010618155629.A6914@cyclone.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 01:42:22PM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am using Linux Redhat 6.2 . On startup "Starting NFS lockd" fails. I get a message that says "Lockdsvc connection refused". I am very new to Linux, and only know this has to do with the file system. > > I am using running HTTP & FTP on the box. > > Does anyone know how I can resolve this? > > Thank you in advance. > Well, if you're not mounting NFS shares, or exporting NFS shares, then you can just chkconfig --level 123456 nfslock off To turn lockd off for good, beginning on your next reboot, and then /etc/rc.d/init.d/nfslock stop to turn off lockd. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From florin at iucha.net Mon Jun 18 16:02:41 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL, NDA, and way too much lawyer stuff In-Reply-To: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 03:26:44PM -0500 References: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010618160241.B19450@beaver.iucha.org> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 03:26:44PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > If a client requires you to sign a NDA and that agreement says they own > "everything" about the project. Including all design, specifications, page > layout and -source code- how does the GPL play into this? > > If I want to use the FSF GNU getopt, which is GPL'd, can I use that in this > project? IANAL B IMHO it's work for hire (it's not that your company builds something and offers it for sale) so you can use GPL code. If your client then distributes the code he has to obey the GPL and offer the source to what is linked against GPL code. If the code is not distributed than nothing happens. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jun 18 16:09:50 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL, NDA, and way too much lawyer stuff In-Reply-To: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010618160950.A1470@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [010618 15:28]: > If a client requires you to sign a NDA and that agreement says they own > "everything" about the project. Including all design, specifications, page > layout and -source code- how does the GPL play into this? AFAIK long ranged NDA's cant outweigh pre-existing licensing contracts. Usually wide-subject NDA's are weaker afaik. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/d4791410/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Mon Jun 18 16:59:27 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL, NDA, and way too much lawyer stuff In-Reply-To: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> References: <20010618152644.E25825@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01061816592700.02300@geezer> As with the rest I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, etc... Don't do it unless the lawyers who wrote the NDA/Contract write an addendum that states that the client understands what the GPL is, what their responsibilities under the GPL are, and that they agree to this specific option in the project. My guess is you could be in violation of the NDA if you don't give them the option of paying you more money to reinvent the wheel. Jack On Monday 18 June 2001 15:26, you wrote: > If a client requires you to sign a NDA and that agreement says they own > "everything" about the project. Including all design, specifications, page > layout and -source code- how does the GPL play into this? > > If I want to use the FSF GNU getopt, which is GPL'd, can I use that in this > project? From chrome at real-time.com Mon Jun 18 18:27:41 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Monitor repair Message-ID: <20010618182741.D20256@real-time.com> We have a 21" monitor here in the office, which seems to be dead. It won't power on consistently.. occasionally it will; but generally not. We have been told (by Surf Computer Services, who formerly did monitor repair), that there isn't any place left in the Twin Cities which repairs monitors. Does anyone know otherwise? Any suggestions on where to get it fixed? Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From wilson at visi.com Mon Jun 18 18:48:23 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror site logos Message-ID: Hey everyone, Does anyone know how KDE's Konqueror Web browser comes up with the little logos that appear next to site names in the location box? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Mon Jun 18 19:21:18 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror site logos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's likely using favicon files from the web sites. MS added that as a feature to IE a few revs back. Since it's just an ico file Konquerer must just be reading those. Josh __SIG__ On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Does anyone know how KDE's Konqueror Web browser comes up with the little > logos that appear next to site names in the location box? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 19:23:29 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Monitor repair In-Reply-To: <20010618182741.D20256@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > We have a 21" monitor here in the office, which seems to be dead. > It won't power on consistently.. occasionally it will; but generally not. > > We have been told (by Surf Computer Services, who formerly did monitor > repair), that there isn't any place left in the Twin Cities which repairs > monitors. > > Does anyone know otherwise? Any suggestions on where to get it fixed? What happened to Technoserve? They were a little pricey, but high quality work, and that's *all* they did. I'd try looking them up, first. And they're not far from you guys -- they were in Minnetonka, just up 494 and west on Hwy 7 for a while, IIRC. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 19:23:42 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: <20010618123026.B2973@sherohman.org> References: <20010618123026.B2973@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010618192342.47dca81a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Dave Sherohman wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:22:49AM -0500, andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > That is pretty interesting. Microsoft, despite their claims, is > > > using GPL'd software. > > > > The article says M$ using FreeBSD. Not GPL. > > That was my first thought as well, but Brian then went on to talk about > forged headers from apache (claiming to be IIS, perhaps?) and a version > of IIS 4.0 running on linux. Those are definitely usages of GPLed code, > plus there's the possibility that the FreeBSD distribution includes some > GPLed utilities or libraries, though I don't know FreeBSD well enough > to comment on its actual purity; it could be 100% BSDL code or it could > be a mix. Um, Apache is under a BSD(-style?) license. OTOH, gcc is quite popular ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Batteries not included. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/cffd47f5/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 19:27:44 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ReiserFS on Progeny/Woody? In-Reply-To: <200106181530.f5IFUwK22856@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200106181530.f5IFUwK22856@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010618192744.756d5799.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > > First, thank you Andy for the tip on how to get the sound > working. For some reason, the Progeny install didn't catch the on-board > audio, but adding modprobe via82cxxx_audio to /etc/modules did the > trick. Nice and simple, and the sound really isn't too bad. I'm > listening to a CD right now (Beethoven's Piano Sonata #8) and it sounds > just fine. So many thanks. Just to pick nits, CD audio is the easiest thing for a sound card to do. Well, unless you're having the drive extract the digital audio directly off the CD, pipe it digitally through the system, then play it through the sound card. Don't laugh -- OS/2 could do it (I think it was called CDXA or something) and I'm sure it's possible under Linux with the right tools. Anyway, most computer setups have the audio (whether from the analog port or the digital S/P-DIF port) go directly from the CD-ROM drive to the sound card, bypassing the motherboard and CPU. Playing CD audio requires zero CPU time, so it usually sounds good ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ "Did you sleep well?" / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ "No, I made a couple of \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) mistakes." [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/6c7aa320/attachment.pgp From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon Jun 18 19:40:55 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? Message-ID: Hey, I went and nuked the MBR on my drive, thinking I'll boot from a rescue CD and rerun LILO. Except, the lilo binary doesn't seem to be in /sbin or anywhere in /usr on my debian box. I can only mount /, /boo and /usr, since the rest are reiserfs. There's no floppy drives on my system, and since I'm not in Linux I have no CD creation tools, but I can burn an ISO. I don't feel like waiting several hours for a whole CD image to download, and the debian pseudo-image kit doesn't seem to want to work. Does anyon ehave a smallish rescue CD, that can basically mount a couple of ext2 partitions and run lilo? -Yaron -- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 19:50:50 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror site logos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010618195050.1c1d76a8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Joshua Jore wrote: > > > It's likely using favicon files from the web sites. MS added that as a > feature to IE a few revs back. Since it's just an ico file Konquerer > must just be reading those. Yeah, looks like it: What is a Favicon? In Microsoft's Internet Explorer 5.0 and above and Linux's Konqueror Web Browser you can customize the Icon next to your bookmarked web site to be your own customized logo. http://www.favicon.com/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If at first you don't / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ succeed, destroy all \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) evidence that you tried. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/c1f66009/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 19:56:05 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010618195605.558106d6.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Yaron wrote: > > I don't feel like waiting several hours for a whole CD image to > download, and the debian pseudo-image kit doesn't seem to want to work. > Does anyone have a smallish rescue CD, that can basically mount a couple > of ext2 partitions and run lilo? well, the lnx-bbc should work for that: http://www.lnx-bbc.org/ Or one of the other BBC projects: http://www.lnx-bbc.org/others.html -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I Have To Stop Now, My / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Fingers Are Getting \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Hoarse! [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010618/7e08800e/attachment.pgp From spencer at sihope.com Tue Jun 19 08:15:32 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Monitor repair In-Reply-To: <20010618182741.D20256@real-time.com> References: <20010618182741.D20256@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01061908153203.01062@red.autonomous.tv> > > Does anyone know otherwise? Any suggestions on where to get it fixed? Quality Electronics Curtis Fredrickson 952-471-9360 3412b Shoreline Dr. Navarre,MN 55392 Tell him that Spencer sent you. He is a seasoned veteran when it comes to just such a thing. -Spencer From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 18 20:51:53 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Yaron wrote: > I don't feel like waiting several hours for a whole CD image to download, > and the debian pseudo-image kit doesn't seem to want to work. Does anyon > ehave a smallish rescue CD, that can basically mount a couple of ext2 > partitions and run lilo? Um, I can get you tomsrtbt or debian floppy images, if you want. Is that any help? (You can download those quick enough, though, but I'm happy to get in the middle if it makes things easier.) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jwanderson at uswest.net Mon Jun 18 21:31:19 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106190231.f5J2VKK07871@sprite.real-time.com> There is an image of the BBC @ ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/misc_iso/bbc1- 5.iso (47.5 MB, shouldn't take too long...) Jay On 18 Jun 01, at 19:40, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > I went and nuked the MBR on my drive, thinking I'll boot from a rescue CD > and rerun LILO. > > Except, the lilo binary doesn't seem to be in /sbin or anywhere in /usr on > my debian box. I can only mount /, /boo and /usr, since the rest are > reiserfs. There's no floppy drives on my system, and since I'm not in > Linux I have no CD creation tools, but I can burn an ISO. > > I don't feel like waiting several hours for a whole CD image to download, > and the debian pseudo-image kit doesn't seem to want to work. Does anyon > ehave a smallish rescue CD, that can basically mount a couple of ext2 > partitions and run lilo? > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jun 18 21:36:48 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FUD gallore In-Reply-To: <20010618192342.47dca81a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:23:42PM -0500 References: <20010618123026.B2973@sherohman.org> <20010618192342.47dca81a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010618213648.A6652@sherohman.org> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:23:42PM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > Dave Sherohman wrote: > > That was my first thought as well, but Brian then went on to talk about > > forged headers from apache (claiming to be IIS, perhaps?) and a version > > of IIS 4.0 running on linux. Those are definitely usages of GPLed code, > Um, Apache is under a BSD(-style?) license. *smack* I knew that... Must be lack of sleep. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon Jun 18 22:28:52 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, Ok, what happened was this. Apparently when I apt-get remove'd exim, debian in it's infinite wisdom decided I don't need lilo, because, if you don't want to run SMTP on your machine you DEFINETLY don't need to BOOT or anything. The BBC image I DLed didn't work cause these PNY discs are crap. What I ended up doing was this: - Boot into rescue from Mandrake 8.0 Beta. - Mount my old / and /boot - mkdir -p /mnt/tmp/var/ - Mount Mandrake CD. - RPM install lilo from Mandrake onto /mnt/tmp (ie, my /) At this point I can run lilo but there's no /boot/boot.b, so I copied that off of Mandrake's lilo package. It all works now! (: AND I've reinstalled LILO (and exim... grrr. I've dpkg'd it out but it seems to reappear...) -Yaron -- From kbullock at ringworld.org Tue Jun 19 01:31:27 2001 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin R. Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Yaron wrote: > It all works now! (: AND I've reinstalled LILO (and exim... grrr. I've > dpkg'd it out but it seems to reappear...) I'm curious as to why you're so opposed to running an SMTP daemon on your box though. Lots of things (especially cron) want an MTA on the local machine, otherwise they don't work right. And if you configure it right, it works pretty nicely, delivering all your cron messages to wherever you want them (local mailbox, mailbox on your normal isp, ...). Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 19 02:33:40 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Kevin R. Bullock wrote: > I'm curious as to why you're so opposed to running an SMTP daemon on > your box though. Well, for starters, this is my workstation. It doesn't need an MTA for anything. No cron or nothing. Second, I'm not really opposed to having an MTA. It doesn't need to be running or anything for mail to be sendable. I'm opposed to having Exim on my box, because I know nothing about it. If it was qmail, or even sendmail, I'd be fine with it. -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 19 07:31:22 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 02:33:40AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 02:33:40AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Kevin R. Bullock wrote: > > > I'm curious as to why you're so opposed to running an SMTP daemon on > > your box though. > > Well, for starters, this is my workstation. It doesn't need an MTA for > anything. No cron or nothing. > > Second, I'm not really opposed to having an MTA. It doesn't need to be > running or anything for mail to be sendable. I'm opposed to having Exim on > my box, because I know nothing about it. If it was qmail, or even > sendmail, I'd be fine with it. Debian/Woody tried to shove exim down my throat too, but I saw that and replaced it with sendmail during the installation. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Jun 19 08:30:36 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:28:52PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010619083036.A555@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:28:52PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > Ok, what happened was this. Apparently when I apt-get remove'd exim, > debian in it's infinite wisdom decided I don't need lilo, because, if you > don't want to run SMTP on your machine you DEFINETLY don't need to BOOT or > anything. That's really strange. I think I figured out why apt did that, though. Lilo depends on logrotate (to rotate its logs), which depends on mailx (to send mail about rotations jobs), which depends on a mail transport agent (to deliver mail). So its a pain, but it looks like you need to have an MTA installed. Its seems like logrotate should only recommend mailx, since it wouldn't break logrotates core functionality if it couldn't send messages. > It all works now! (: AND I've reinstalled LILO (and exim... grrr. I've > dpkg'd it out but it seems to reappear...) Well, you should be able to install any MTA you want to fill the MTA dependency. So you should be able to apt-get install sendmail (or smail, or whatever). Apt will then remove exim because you can only have one MTA installed at a time. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 19 08:58:43 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 07:31:22AM -0500 References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010619085843.B10390@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 07:31:22AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 02:33:40AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > > Second, I'm not really opposed to having an MTA. It doesn't need to be > > running or anything for mail to be sendable. I'm opposed to having Exim on > > my box, because I know nothing about it. If it was qmail, or even > > sendmail, I'd be fine with it. > > Debian/Woody tried to shove exim down my throat too, but I saw that and > replaced it with sendmail during the installation. Shove it down your throat? --- # apt-get install sendmail Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following extra packages will be installed: gawk libdb3 libldap2 libsasl7 The following packages will be REMOVED: exim The following NEW packages will be installed: gawk libdb3 libldap2 libsasl7 sendmail 0 packages upgraded, 5 newly installed, 1 to remove and 254 not upgraded. Need to get 2112kB of archives. After unpacking 4506kB will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n --- Tell apt you want some other MTA and it's quite happy to remove exim for you. The bigger question, though, is why you hate exim so much. It works well, without qmail's unusual licensing (yes, I know some people think the qmail license is better than GPL/BSD, but that's a completely different holy war) or the legendary horrors of sendmail's configuration. I set exim up by default on my first debian install, got it right the first time, and have been able to easily update it as things have changed since then. I have yet to encounter a problem with it, although I'll admit that I haven't run any mail servers with over... 68 users. (No, I'm not trying to start a flamewar or be an MTA evangelist. If you just prefer another flavor, that's fine, but if exim has any serious problems, I want to know about them.) -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From jasonj at talkware.net Tue Jun 19 09:00:33 2001 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email virtual hosting Message-ID: <3B2F5B01.8D094A54@talkware.net> I need some advice. The higher ups want to support virtual domain hosting. They want us to support joe@domain1.com and joe@domain2.com as different mail accounts. What are my options? Sendmail appears to SUCK at supporting this, but this is what we already have installed. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Jun 19 09:16:28 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010619085843.B10390@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010619091628.C1470@ringworld.org> * Dave Sherohman [010619 09:00]: > The bigger question, though, is why you hate exim so much. It works well, It's not postfix? :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/db2cbafe/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 19 09:37:15 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010619085843.B10390@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 08:58:43AM -0500 References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <20010619085843.B10390@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010619093715.A17027@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 08:58:43AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > Tell apt you want some other MTA and it's quite happy to remove exim > for you. When I unselected exim with the purpose to select sendmail it showed me that nice "dependency resolver" screen full of all kinds of necessary packages. Being my first debian install that kinda scared me. > The bigger question, though, is why you hate exim so much. It works well, > without qmail's unusual licensing (yes, I know some people think the qmail > license is better than GPL/BSD, but that's a completely different holy > war) or the legendary horrors of sendmail's configuration. I set exim > up by default on my first debian install, got it right the first time, > and have been able to easily update it as things have changed since then. > I have yet to encounter a problem with it, although I'll admit that I > haven't run any mail servers with over... 68 users. > > (No, I'm not trying to start a flamewar or be an MTA evangelist. If you > just prefer another flavor, that's fine, but if exim has any serious > problems, I want to know about them.) Oh, sorry... I don't have any hard feelings about exim at all and I don't want to convince anybody that sendmail is the best thing since uucp :) I just happen to know a little sendmail and not know anything about exim. I tried some time ago to use exim instead of sendmail because I wasnt' able to figure out sendmail envelope masquerading... I wasn't able to figure out exim eigther and then I found a sendmail.mc so... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jun 19 09:49:04 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email virtual hosting In-Reply-To: <3B2F5B01.8D094A54@talkware.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > I need some advice. The higher ups want to support virtual domain > hosting. They want us to support joe@domain1.com and joe@domain2.com as > different mail accounts. What are my options? Sendmail appears to SUCK > at supporting this, but this is what we already have installed. use virtusertable: joe@domain1.com joea@yourmx bob@domain1.com bob@yourmx @domain1.com tim@yourmx joe@domain2.com joeb@yourmx sales@domain2.com joec@yourmx @domain2.com doh@yourmx -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:19:15 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: Message-ID: <3B2F6D73.F75236CF@archdirect.com> > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/2161918b/gary.vcf From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 19 10:17:16 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010619083036.A555@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hey, On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jim Crumley wrote: > though. Lilo depends on logrotate (to rotate its logs), LILO has logs? What on Earth for? It's completely interactive... -Yaron -- From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:19:44 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: Message-ID: <3B2F6D90.BB90AD64@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/31b42677/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:21:03 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619083036.A555@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B2F6DDF.A87B8DF9@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/0acba2e2/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:20:17 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/f7365a05/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:21:35 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <20010619085843.B10390@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B2F6DFF.AE52B24A@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/739f3412/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:22:01 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619091628.C1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3B2F6E19.FB4AEE52@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/51d5f0e5/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:22:14 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <20010619085843.B10390@sherohman.org> <20010619093715.A17027@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B2F6E26.DD305F82@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/3a97bde0/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:22:25 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email virtual hosting References: <3B2F5B01.8D094A54@talkware.net> Message-ID: <3B2F6E31.2A073140@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/1ea2c76b/gary.vcf From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 10:22:39 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email virtual hosting References: Message-ID: <3B2F6E3F.AA1EEDB2@archdirect.com> Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/0da915dd/gary.vcf From wilson at visi.com Tue Jun 19 10:21:04 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ugly fonts in w/ Mandrake 8.0 Message-ID: Hey everyone, I've just put Mandrake 8.0 on a laptop I'm borrowing from school for the summer . The install was very smooth. The sans-serif fonts in Konqueror and Mozilla are quite ugly, however. The headlines on Slashdot, for example, render in a fairly strange font that I know isn't arial or helvetica. Mandrake uses 8.0, but I don't see any problems with it at first glance. Anyone else seen this? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From steveg at transition.com Tue Jun 19 10:32:39 2001 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Monitor repair Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BBF54@postman.transition.com> I think H&H Electronics in St. Louis Park fixes monitors. I had a couple of TVs fixed there and I remember seeing that they would repair monitors also. This was a couple of years ago but they are still in business. H&H TV and Electroins 2625 Louisiana Ave South St Louis Park, MN 952 929 1721 -----Original Message----- From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [mailto:chrome@real-time.com] Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 6:28 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Monitor repair We have a 21" monitor here in the office, which seems to be dead. It won't power on consistently.. occasionally it will; but generally not. We have been told (by Surf Computer Services, who formerly did monitor repair), that there isn't any place left in the Twin Cities which repairs monitors. Does anyone know otherwise? Any suggestions on where to get it fixed? Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 19 10:37:50 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email virtual hosting In-Reply-To: <3B2F6E31.2A073140@archdirect.com>; from gary@archdirect.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:22:25AM -0500 References: <3B2F5B01.8D094A54@talkware.net> <3B2F6E31.2A073140@archdirect.com> Message-ID: <20010619103750.B21575@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:22:25AM -0500, Gary Turpening wrote: > > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. Content-Description: Card for Gary Turpening Bob, please remove this poor soul from the list or procmail his messages to /dev/null... I know he should use the web interface but spare him the misery His send button and our del buttons are worn out by now :) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Jun 19 10:37:36 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:17:16AM -0500 References: <20010619083036.A555@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010619103736.A986@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:17:16AM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jim Crumley wrote: > > > though. Lilo depends on logrotate (to rotate its logs), > > LILO has logs? What on Earth for? It's completely interactive... Oops, you're right, no logs. It looks like what it is rotating is boot blocks. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 19 10:39:24 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email virtual hosting In-Reply-To: <3B2F6E31.2A073140@archdirect.com> Message-ID: Hello, On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Gary Turpening wrote: > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. Look, you spammer, insctructions on how to remove yourself are included in every single Email from the list. WHy don't you use them? -Yaron -- From patrick at hamletmachine.com Tue Jun 19 10:49:39 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ugly fonts in w/ Mandrake 8.0 References: Message-ID: <008b01c0f8d7$740b5250$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> I noticed the same thing - but if I set the Text Size in Mozilla to a larger setting, the displayed font is a lot nicer looking. I'm not sure if that works in Konqueror, since I've not used it yet. I have other font size and display problems with Mozilla in MDK, though, most notably with the Mail client. Still trying to sort all that out. =) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Wilson" To: "TCLUG" Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:21 Subject: [TCLUG] Ugly fonts in w/ Mandrake 8.0 > Hey everyone, > > I've just put Mandrake 8.0 on a laptop I'm borrowing from school for the > summer . The install was very smooth. The sans-serif fonts > in Konqueror and Mozilla are quite ugly, however. The headlines on Slashdot, > for example, render in a fairly strange font that I know isn't arial or > helvetica. Mandrake uses 8.0, but I don't see any problems with it at first > glance. Anyone else seen this? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Jun 19 11:55:33 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <3B2F6D90.BB90AD64@archdirect.com> Message-ID: <20010619115532.G1470@ringworld.org> * Gary Turpening [010619 10:20]: > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. Please, stop flooding the list or I shall be forced to find an admin near you to come and reducate you on how to unsub from a list. RTFM. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net Sinclair: "No boom?" Garibaldi: "No boom." Ivanova: "No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always a boom tomorrow." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/5fecc989/attachment.pgp From dan at williamsongraphics.com Tue Jun 19 12:17:25 2001 From: dan at williamsongraphics.com (dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re:Ugly fonts in w/ Mandrake 8.0 Message-ID: <01061912172500.10762@morpheus.hellnet> Here is a good page helping you get some nicer looking fonts in X. If you are a Mandrake user, then you should have this page bookmarked! : ) http://www.mandrakeuser.org/docs/xwin/xfont.html Dan From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 19 12:17:49 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> Message-ID: <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> You are an idiot, or are you just lazy? Go here and do it yourself! https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Turpening" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? > > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. > From kbullock at ringworld.org Tue Jun 19 12:57:25 2001 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin R. Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010619083036.A555@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jim Crumley wrote: > Its seems like logrotate should only recommend mailx, since it > wouldn't break logrotates core functionality if it couldn't send > messages. Did you file a bug report? 'reportbug' is your friend. :) Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From kbullock at ringworld.org Tue Jun 19 12:58:58 2001 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin R. Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010619091628.C1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > Dave Sherohman [010619 09:00]: > > The bigger question, though, is why you hate exim so much. > It's not postfix? :) Postfix, by the way, is the default MTA on Progeny. And postfix rocks. Pacem in Terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Tue Jun 19 13:28:48 2001 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape backup question Message-ID: <003501c0f8ed$aee3dbc0$0ad2e5cf@means.net> I see mixed info on whether a parallel port tape drive will work on Linux 6.2. I found a doc at redhat.com/support/alex/229.html that seemed to explain the process of getting it to work. I entered the statement "ln -s /dev/ht0/dev/tape" I know have a red blinking label that says Tape at my root. I can see I am supposed to add the ide-tape.o module, but am not sure how to get this done, or if it will work. Any detailed help would be appreciated. I am using a parallel port Colorado 350 with QIC-80 tapes Raymond -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/09374b35/attachment.html From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 19 13:44:28 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD Message-ID: Hey, So, say I have a bunch of mpegs in VCD format. How the heck do you make a VCD under Linux? Just burning the mpeg onto a CD does NOT work (: -Yaron -- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 19 14:02:19 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Yaron wrote: > So, say I have a bunch of mpegs in VCD format. How the heck do you make a > VCD under Linux? Just burning the mpeg onto a CD does NOT work (: You mean CD-V, as in White Book spec disks? First, you'll need to be sure that your burner supports it. They may; I've never tried. I know my Sony 900e supported it, but didn't have a use. But I also know that not every CD-R burner used to be able to, so that's the first thing to check. Second, you'll need software that can write the right stuff. I do not know if cdrdao or those support it, but you might check Jurg Schilling's page and see if he's done any support for CD-V equipment. To be clear, if not pedantic, if you mean CD-V, it's a different spec than just a CD-R, like a different filesystem if you like, and it may require both hardware and software, but it's neither the first nor last time I could be wrong. :) Sorry I can't tell you more, keep us posted on what you find -- my interest is piqued. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From barnabas at knicknack.net Tue Jun 19 14:03:51 2001 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sourceforge admins? Message-ID: <20010619140351.A2455@knicknack.net> Is anyone out there administering Sourceforge locally? If so, I'd like to hear how much work it was to set up and how much work it is to maintain. Thanks. Eric From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 19 14:15:38 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 01:44:28PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010619141538.B22401@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 01:44:28PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > So, say I have a bunch of mpegs in VCD format. How the heck do you make a > VCD under Linux? Just burning the mpeg onto a CD does NOT work (: > http://www.gnu.org/software/vcdimager/ florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 19 14:17:20 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape backup question In-Reply-To: <003501c0f8ed$aee3dbc0$0ad2e5cf@means.net>; from ray@lctn.k12.mn.us on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 01:28:48PM -0500 References: <003501c0f8ed$aee3dbc0$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Message-ID: <20010619141720.C22401@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 01:28:48PM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I see mixed info on whether a parallel port tape drive will work on Linux 6.2. I found a doc at redhat.com/support/alex/229.html that seemed to explain the process of getting it to work. I entered the statement "ln -s /dev/ht0/dev/tape" I know have a red blinking label that says Tape at my root. I can see I am supposed to add the ide-tape.o module, but am not sure how to get this done, or if it will work. Any detailed help would be appreciated. > That doesn't surprise me a bit. You should have typed: ln -s /dev/ht0 /dev/tape Note the space between entries. Nor _CAREFULLY_ do a ls -l /Tape and if does not point to anything remove it. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From zibby at ringworld.org Tue Jun 19 14:17:17 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape backup question In-Reply-To: <003501c0f8ed$aee3dbc0$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Message-ID: Linux 6.2? You out crusing in a time machine again? The current version of Linux is 2.4. If you somehow have version 6.2, I'm sure many developers will be VERY interested in leaping years ahead. If you're confused, remember that RedHat Linux 6.2 != Linux 6.2. RedHat is a distribution of the Linux KERNEL and other software that make it a complete operating system. Linux alone is a kernel, and not all that useful. Anyway, modprobe ide-tape would be a good start. You'll also have to add the parallel port ide modules, but look at /usr/src/linux/Documentation/paride.txt (This may be in /usr/doc or /usr/share/doc if you haven't compiled your own kernel, your miliage may very, etc, etc.). It's RedHat, so you should be able to do everything through linuxconf if that kind of thing turns you on. Hope that's helpful. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 19 14:21:56 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: <20010619141538.B22401@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 01:44:28PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > > Hey, > > > > So, say I have a bunch of mpegs in VCD format. How the heck do you make a > > VCD under Linux? Just burning the mpeg onto a CD does NOT work (: > > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/vcdimager/ Cool! That's what I like about OSS/Linux -- every time I think "no one will have done that yet" someone proves me wrong! :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Tue Jun 19 14:40:00 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Tape backup question In-Reply-To: <003501c0f8ed$aee3dbc0$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Message-ID: I'd suggest checking out the parport mailing list. There's a home page at http://www.torque.net/parport/paride. I was redirected to gear.torque.net so if the first doesn't work try the second. Alternatively, just strip off the paride part of the URL for more general parallel port stuff. Here's a list of dependancies for parallel port ide tape: parport -> parport_pc -> paride -> [a protocol] -> pt. In modprobe terms this looks like: modprobe paride modprobe [a protocol] modprobe pt For protocol, you've got a choice between aten, bpck, comm, dstr, epat, epia, fit2, fit3, frpw, friq, kbic, ktti, on20, on26. You could just load all of these and see which one is used when you load pt. The default operation is for the device module (pt, pf, pcd, pd, pg) to loop through all the protocols with a few different ports and see if it finds something. When that happens it msgs to the console and you'll know which protocol to keep. I'm not a parport guru, the other folks on the list are. I do maintain the epat protocol module. Josh __SIG__ On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Raymond Norton wrote: > I see mixed info on whether a parallel port tape drive will work on Linux 6.2. I found a doc at redhat.com/support/alex/229.html that seemed to explain the process of getting it to work. I entered the statement "ln -s /dev/ht0/dev/tape" I know have a red blinking label that says Tape at my root. I can see I am supposed to add the ide-tape.o module, but am not sure how to get this done, or if it will work. Any detailed help would be appreciated. > > I am using a parallel port Colorado 350 with QIC-80 tapes > > > Raymond > From jeffr at odeon.net Tue Jun 19 14:45:54 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Database question In-Reply-To: <01061912172500.10762@morpheus.hellnet> Message-ID: Heya folks, I'm looking for a way to grab all the data from a database (running on an ACD call center) into a mysql or postgres database running on a linux system. The call center system is network attached, and it can be accessed via ODBC. Here's the scenario... The call center system is slow. It stores all of its logs/call-detail stuff in an SQL database, and it takes about 20 seconds to do a pretty simple query, hence the desire to pull all the data into a different database running on a dedicated system. The goal is to grab the data files every night and import them into mysql or postgres, and then build a web interface with Zope so that the PHBs can view their reports via the intranet. Some of them like to grab the report and import it into excel so they can further customize their reports themselves for their records. To support that, I'm thinking about generating a tab delimited text file for each report every night that they can download. The formating will be atrocious, but they will be able to get their raw numbers without trying to cut/paste an html document into excel. The web interface also lets us build some predefined queries with some variables that some of the PHBs have been asking us for, giving them a little more control over the reports that they get. Hopefully if I can make this work the way I want it to we won't need to spend our time doing custom reports whenever they want to see something specific that the generic reports don't show very well. Anyway, I know how to do everything except sucking the data out of the call center in one big chunk and importing it into mysql or postgres. I'm thinking I could write something in python to do a query on the call center (select everything from each table) and import the results of the query into the appropriate table in mysql, but my python skills aren't stellar just yet so I'm hoping there's an easier and more direct way that I've overlooked. The data files total about 750 megs on the call center, so I want to grab all the data once, and then every night grab the previous days data. Thanks, Jeff From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 19 14:49:44 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > http://www.gnu.org/software/vcdimager/ > Cool! That's what I like about OSS/Linux -- every time I think "no one > will have done that yet" someone proves me wrong! :) And it works, too!!! I'm watching Hitchhiker's Guide ot the Galaxy on the DVD player right now! Hehe. Thanks Florin! -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 19 14:58:03 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Database question In-Reply-To: ; from jeffr@odeon.net on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 02:45:54PM -0500 References: <01061912172500.10762@morpheus.hellnet> Message-ID: <20010619145803.E22401@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 02:45:54PM -0500, jeffr@odeon.net wrote: > > Heya folks, > > I'm looking for a way to grab all the data from a database (running on an > ACD call center) into a mysql or postgres database running on a linux > system. The call center system is network attached, and it can be > accessed via ODBC. > > Here's the scenario... > > The call center system is slow. It stores all of its logs/call-detail > stuff in an SQL database, and it takes about 20 seconds to do a pretty > simple query, hence the desire to pull all the data into a different > database running on a dedicated system. > > The goal is to grab the data files every night and import them into mysql > or postgres, and then build a web interface with Zope so that the PHBs can > view their reports via the intranet. Some of them like to grab the report > and import it into excel so they can further customize their reports > themselves for their records. To support that, I'm thinking about > generating a tab delimited text file for each report every night that they > can download. The formating will be atrocious, but they will be able to > get their raw numbers without trying to cut/paste an html document into > excel. > > The web interface also lets us build some predefined queries with some > variables that some of the PHBs have been asking us for, giving them a > little more control over the reports that they get. Hopefully if I can > make this work the way I want it to we won't need to spend our time doing > custom reports whenever they want to see something specific that the > generic reports don't show very well. > > Anyway, I know how to do everything except sucking the data out of the > call center in one big chunk and importing it into mysql or postgres. > I'm thinking I could write something in python to do a query on the call > center (select everything from each table) and import the results of the > query into the appropriate table in mysql, but my python skills aren't > stellar just yet so I'm hoping there's an easier and more direct way that > I've overlooked. > > The data files total about 750 megs on the call center, so I want to grab > all the data once, and then every night grab the previous days data. If you say the current database server is slow, my suggestion is to dump the data in text files and move them over to the linux box. Over there you could use a little bit of perl magick (tm) to put them in the database. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 19 15:07:58 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Yaron wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/vcdimager/ > > Cool! That's what I like about OSS/Linux -- every time I think "no one > > will have done that yet" someone proves me wrong! :) > > And it works, too!!! I'm watching Hitchhiker's Guide ot the Galaxy on the > DVD player right now! Hehe. Thanks Florin! What burner and what DVD player? I wanna try this too, now. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jun 19 15:17:55 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > And it works, too!!! I'm watching Hitchhiker's Guide ot the Galaxy on the > > DVD player right now! Hehe. Thanks Florin! > > What burner and what DVD player? I wanna try this too, now. Heck, where can I get the mpg? :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Jun 19 15:32:27 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Yaron wrote: > And it works, too!!! I'm watching Hitchhiker's Guide ot the Galaxy on the > DVD player right now! Hehe. Thanks Florin! With VCD, it's MPEG1 so you're limited to 74 minutes, am I right? -Brian From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 19 15:39:43 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VCD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > What burner and what DVD player? I wanna try this too, now. It's an old Plextor Plexwrite 8/20... I think it might be dying, as I'm able to burn a few CDs and then I get nothing but faliures till I reboot. The DVD player is an APEX AD-600A. Yes, secret menu and all. I have been able to play the VCD off a regular CDROM using MpegTV and Xine, too. -Yaron -- From gary at archdirect.com Tue Jun 19 16:07:38 2001 From: gary at archdirect.com (Gary Turpening) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B2FBF1A.D9E959C5@archdirect.com> Please take me off your e-mail list. Thahks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 202 bytes Desc: Card for Gary Turpening Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010619/4b350814/gary.vcf From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Jun 19 16:26:55 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <3B2FBF1A.D9E959C5@archdirect.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Gary Turpening wrote: > Please take me off your e-mail list. Thahks. With all the heckling from the list members, you STILL haven't figured it out? There's instructions on the bottom of every TCLUG message on how to do such a thing. I repeat, RTFM. From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 19 16:32:11 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 04:26:55PM -0500 References: <3B2FBF1A.D9E959C5@archdirect.com> Message-ID: <20010619163211.M10390@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 04:26:55PM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Gary Turpening wrote: > > > Please take me off your e-mail list. Thahks. > > With all the heckling from the list members, you STILL haven't figured it > out? There's instructions on the bottom of every TCLUG message on how to > do such a thing. > > I repeat, RTFM. He's ignoring us. I sent a note off-list and got a message back with the subject "auto-reply" and no body. Draw your own conclusions... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From joel at luths.net Tue Jun 19 16:43:05 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Database question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <992986985.3b2fc76994ee9@www.luths.net> To not answer your question- You might also consider giving them (read-only) access to the MySQL database via ODBC, that way Excel could pull data for processing as a database client. Saves a few steps in downloading and importing delimited text files. I've only done this a bit with Excel, but it works well for using Access as a front end to MySQL. I assume PostgreSQL also has an ODBC driver. Quoting jeffr@odeon.net: > > Heya folks, > > I'm looking for a way to grab all the data from a database (running on > an > ACD call center) into a mysql or postgres database running on a linux > system. The call center system is network attached, and it can be > accessed via ODBC. > > Here's the scenario... > > The call center system is slow. It stores all of its logs/call-detail > stuff in an SQL database, and it takes about 20 seconds to do a pretty > simple query, hence the desire to pull all the data into a different > database running on a dedicated system. > > The goal is to grab the data files every night and import them into > mysql > or postgres, and then build a web interface with Zope so that the PHBs > can > view their reports via the intranet. Some of them like to grab the > report > and import it into excel so they can further customize their reports > themselves for their records. To support that, I'm thinking about > generating a tab delimited text file for each report every night that > they > can download. The formating will be atrocious, but they will be able to > get their raw numbers without trying to cut/paste an html document into > excel. > > The web interface also lets us build some predefined queries with some > variables that some of the PHBs have been asking us for, giving them a > little more control over the reports that they get. Hopefully if I can > make this work the way I want it to we won't need to spend our time > doing > custom reports whenever they want to see something specific that the > generic reports don't show very well. > > Anyway, I know how to do everything except sucking the data out of the > call center in one big chunk and importing it into mysql or postgres. > I'm thinking I could write something in python to do a query on the call > center (select everything from each table) and import the results of the > query into the appropriate table in mysql, but my python skills aren't > stellar just yet so I'm hoping there's an easier and more direct way > that > I've overlooked. > > The data files total about 750 megs on the call center, so I want to > grab > all the data once, and then every night grab the previous days data. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jeffr at odeon.net Tue Jun 19 17:10:06 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Database question In-Reply-To: <992986985.3b2fc76994ee9@www.luths.net> Message-ID: Now that's an excellent idea. I've toyed with Access and mysql like this a bit, but for some reason it didn't click that excel could be used in this way also. Thanks, Jeff On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > To not answer your question- > > You might also consider giving them (read-only) access to the MySQL database > via ODBC, that way Excel could pull data for processing as a database client. > Saves a few steps in downloading and importing delimited text files. I've only > done this a bit with Excel, but it works well for using Access as a front end > to MySQL. I assume PostgreSQL also has an ODBC driver. > > Quoting jeffr@odeon.net: > [snip] From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 19 18:01:43 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sourceforge admins? In-Reply-To: <20010619140351.A2455@knicknack.net>; from barnabas@knicknack.net on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 02:03:51PM -0500 References: <20010619140351.A2455@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <20010619180143.M4689@real-time.com> Quoting Eric Stanley (barnabas@knicknack.net): > Is anyone out there administering Sourceforge locally? If so, I'd > like to hear how much work it was to set up and how much work it is to > maintain. Thanks. Ton of work. Even more then a ton to setup. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From barry at pinenet.com Tue Jun 19 18:51:28 2001 From: barry at pinenet.com (Barry T. White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <004f01c0f91a$c2c91d80$01f7a8c0@monster> It's nice to see someone with the patience to help out, without insulting the person asking, YOU JERK! I must be an idiot too, because I've been tring to get off this list for a couple months and was not aware of the web page. I just used it to unsubscibe, but it remains to be seen whether it will work or not. For people like me, who signed up at the beginning, the information on changing subscriptions isn't the same as it used to be. Instead of calling people idiots, it would be nice to get a message with this info (maybe monthly?) like other listserv's I've seen do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? > You are an idiot, or are you just lazy? > > Go here and do it yourself! > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Turpening" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:20 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? > > > > > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Jun 19 22:08:38 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory question Message-ID: Is there a way to determine if the DIMMS in a machine are registered or not without looking at the DIMMS? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From rpl at flashcom.net Tue Jun 19 22:21:27 2001 From: rpl at flashcom.net (bob) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem Message-ID: <003901c0f938$1815f1b0$3564a8c0@csi.net> I have a Qwest DSL line with an Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem that I would like to connect to a Linux box.. has anyone done this? would kernel 2.4 ( RedHat v7.1) support USB and is there a driver for the USB DSL modem? anyone have any suggestions ?? TIA bob From seg at haxxed.com Tue Jun 19 22:36:46 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem References: <003901c0f938$1815f1b0$3564a8c0@csi.net> Message-ID: <3B301A4E.C8F52300@haxxed.com> bob wrote: > > I have a Qwest DSL line with an Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem that > I would like to connect to a Linux box.. > > has anyone done this? would kernel 2.4 ( RedHat v7.1) support USB and is > there a driver for the USB DSL modem? > > anyone have any suggestions ?? No chance. Make them give you a Cisco 678. From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 20 00:13:17 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKI order Message-ID: Hey all, I am just waiting for an update from Loki before I send out the Emails to everyone. Hopefully tomorrow. -Yaron -- From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jun 20 08:23:37 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> <004f01c0f91a$c2c91d80$01f7a8c0@monster> Message-ID: <007801c0f98c$376382e0$3028680a@tgt.com> The link is at the bottom of EVERY email sent from the list tells you how to unsubscribe. Two seconds of work to figure that out. Also, many of us tried responding to this character directly, but instead he has some obnoxious autoreponder set up to basically say "I am ignoring you while mailbombing your list". So, yes, that person is an idiot and deserves the label. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry T. White" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? > It's nice to see someone with the patience to help out, without insulting > the person asking, YOU JERK! I must be an idiot too, because I've been tring > to get off this list for a couple months and was not aware of the web page. > I just used it to unsubscibe, but it remains to be seen whether it will work > or not. For people like me, who signed up at the beginning, the information > on changing subscriptions isn't the same as it used to be. > > Instead of calling people idiots, it would be nice to get a message with > this info (maybe monthly?) like other listserv's I've seen do it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 12:17 PM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? > > > > You are an idiot, or are you just lazy? > > > > Go here and do it yourself! > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Turpening" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? > > > > > > > > Please remove me from you e-mail list. Thanks. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jun 20 09:00:06 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280941@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Are you sure it won't work? I know the Richochet usb wireless device uses the standard USB modem interface. I wonder if maybe the intel modem does also... Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Callum Lerwick [mailto:seg@haxxed.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:37 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem > > > bob wrote: > > > > I have a Qwest DSL line with an Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 > external USB modem that > > I would like to connect to a Linux box.. > > > > has anyone done this? would kernel 2.4 ( RedHat v7.1) > support USB and is > > there a driver for the USB DSL modem? > > > > anyone have any suggestions ?? > > No chance. Make them give you a Cisco 678. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 20 09:20:07 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280941@mspexch1.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:00:06AM -0500 References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280941@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20010620092007.A29149@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:00:06AM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > Are you sure it won't work? I know the Richochet usb wireless device uses > the standard USB modem interface. I wonder if maybe the intel modem does > also... Do you remember the i740 "AGP" graphics boards that worked only on Intel motherboards? AGP, USB are Intel "standards". florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 09:21:16 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <007801c0f98c$376382e0$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 08:23:37AM -0500 References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> <004f01c0f91a$c2c91d80$01f7a8c0@monster> <007801c0f98c$376382e0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 08:23:37AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > The link is at the bottom of EVERY email sent from the list tells you how to > unsubscribe. Two seconds of work to figure that out. Also, many of us > tried responding to this character directly, but instead he has some > obnoxious autoreponder set up to basically say "I am ignoring you while > mailbombing your list". So, yes, that person is an idiot and deserves the > label. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Well, since this seems to be an ongoing problem, maybe the footer should be a little more clear. The footer doesn't have the word unsubscribe in it anywhere. Maybe something like: _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list - tclug-list@mn-linux.org To unsubscribe from this list see the web page: https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From ssinn at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 09:21:37 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux Message-ID: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> I just became the dubious owner of 3 Apple Macintosh Performa 467's and I was wondering if anyone on the list has had any luck using these. The hardware is listed as supported for linuxppc, mklinux or linux-m68k but I am willing to sacrifice an Apple to the linux gods. Any suggestions? From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 20 09:43:41 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu>; from crumley@belka.space.umn.edu on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:21:16AM -0500 References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> <004f01c0f91a$c2c91d80$01f7a8c0@monster> <007801c0f98c$376382e0$3028680a@tgt.com> <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010620094341.C29149@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:21:16AM -0500, Jim Crumley wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 08:23:37AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > The link is at the bottom of EVERY email sent from the list tells you how to > > unsubscribe. Two seconds of work to figure that out. Also, many of us > > tried responding to this character directly, but instead he has some > > obnoxious autoreponder set up to basically say "I am ignoring you while > > mailbombing your list". So, yes, that person is an idiot and deserves the > > label. > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > Well, since this seems to be an ongoing problem, maybe the footer should > be a little more clear. The footer doesn't have the word unsubscribe > in it anywhere. Maybe something like: > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list - tclug-list@mn-linux.org > To unsubscribe from this list see the web page: > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list And while we are at it why not add more stuff to the footer? Let's make it: _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list - tclug-list@mn-linux.org To unsubscribe from this list see the web page: https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list To resubscribe to this list see the web page again: https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list To spam this list send mail asking everybody to unsubscribe you. Once again, to unsubscribe visit us at: https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list This is silly... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From blayer at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 09:51:14 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux In-Reply-To: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> References: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010620095114.38280fc8.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:21:37 -0500 "Spencer J Sinn" wrote: > I just became the dubious owner of 3 Apple Macintosh Performa 467's and > I was wondering if anyone on the list has had any luck using these. The > hardware is listed as supported for linuxppc, mklinux or linux-m68k but > I am willing to sacrifice an Apple to the linux gods. Any suggestions? Hmm... I'm not sure that the model 'Performa 467' exists, are you sure these are not Performa 476s? The Performa 476 is a machine based on a 25MHz 68LC040 cpu. The 68LC040 is an FPU-less chip, and was unsupported under earlier releases of Mac68k Linux & NetBSD. Recently however, they seem to have gotten the fpu emulation working for these models. Certain 68LC040 models however, can never run *nix, as there is a 'broken' version of the chip which does not allow for fpu emulation - if you cannot run SoftwareFPU under MacOS, the chip is broken and won't run *nix. Replace the chip with a full 68040, or a non-broken 68LC040. One nice feature that sets the Performa475, 476, LC475 and Quadra 605 apart from all other models, is the ability to overclock these machines without the usual clockchip replacement. It's a simple matter of adding a switch and a couple of resistors, and the machine can be toggled between 25 & 33Mhz. This actually increases the bus speed, not just the cpu, so the performance gain is system-wide (including SCSI interface speed). It's also a plug-in upgrade to add a full 68040, which gives the machine a true hardware FPU. One issue that you may encounter is getting a working NIC for these machines. They all use the proprietary Apple LC-PDS NIC, or one of the aftermarket clones. Unfortunately, not all of the LC-PDS NICs are supported in Linux; you'll just have to try booting a kernel and see if the NIC is registered and assigned an interface. All of the 8390 based NICs work (aka NE2000), as do the genuine Apple NICs. Some NICs from Dayna do not work. The best Linux route for these machines is Debian Mac68k Linux, which can be downloaded from the Debian site. I'd suggest you join the debian-68k@lists.debian.org mailing list, as the system is still under development, and new kernels are frequently released to the list. Finally, my webserver for the past year has been an overclocked LC475, with a full 68040. It's rock-solid stable, and has never needed a reboot. Current uptime is: 8:47am up 47 days, 11:39, 1 user, load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00 Hope this helps, -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From richard at elsberry-web.com Wed Jun 20 10:06:23 2001 From: richard at elsberry-web.com (Richard Elsberry) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem References: <200106201425.f5KEPVK22946@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B30BBEF.68012C01@elsberry-web.com> > Jay, in case you hit a wall the intel modem, I had qwest send me a Cisco 675 box and had absolutely no problems connecting via RH6.2 Richard > > Are you sure it won't work? I know the Richochet usb wireless device uses > the standard USB modem interface. I wonder if maybe the intel modem does > also... > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Callum Lerwick [mailto:seg@haxxed.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:37 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem > > > > > > bob wrote: > > > > > > I have a Qwest DSL line with an Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 > > external USB modem that > > > I would like to connect to a Linux box.. > > > > > > has anyone done this? would kernel 2.4 ( RedHat v7.1) > > support USB and is > > > there a driver for the USB DSL modem? > > > > > > anyone have any suggestions ?? > > > > No chance. Make them give you a Cisco 678. > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:20:07 -0500 > From: "Florin Iucha" > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:00:06AM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Are you sure it won't work? I know the Richochet usb wireless device uses > > the standard USB modem interface. I wonder if maybe the intel modem does > > also... > > Do you remember the i740 "AGP" graphics boards that worked only on Intel > motherboards? AGP, USB are Intel "standards". > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > > --__--__-- > From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed Jun 20 10:17:25 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux Message-ID: Bill, I will be receiving a Performa 475 in a month or so and I have a couple questions: >>> blayer@qwest.net 06/20/01 09:51AM >>> >One nice feature that sets the Performa475, 476, LC475 and Quadra 605 >apart from all other models, is the ability to overclock these machines >without the usual clockchip replacement. It's a simple matter of adding a >switch and a couple of resistors, and the machine can be toggled between >It's also a plug-in upgrade to add a full 68040, which gives the machine a true >hardware FPU. Where would one find a full 68040? How much can they be gotten for? >One issue that you may encounter is getting a working NIC for these >machines. They all use the proprietary Apple LC-PDS NIC, or one of the >aftermarket clones. Unfortunately, not all of the LC-PDS NICs are >supported in Linux; you'll just have to try booting a kernel and see if >the NIC is registered and assigned an interface. All of the 8390 based >NICs work (aka NE2000), as do the genuine Apple NICs. Some NICs from Dayna >do not work. Where could you find one of the 8390 or Apple NICs? How much? >The best Linux route for these machines is Debian Mac68k Linux, which can >be downloaded from the Debian site. I'd suggest you join the >debian-68k@lists.debian.org mailing list, as the system is still under >development, and new kernels are frequently released to the list. Cool! Thanks Bill, this is interesting stuff. I was planning on making this machine into a play thing for my son (17 months, but _loves_ to bang on the keyboard and move the mouse). I may consider using an old x86 machine for this task instead... Have a great day, Troy From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 20 10:29:24 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 19 Jun 2001, Jon Schewe wrote: > Is there a way to determine if the DIMMS in a machine are registered or not > without looking at the DIMMS? Have you tried looking up the motherboard and/or chipset? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 20 11:11:51 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux References: Message-ID: <3B30CB38.FB12F6C0@eetc.com> "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > Cool! Thanks Bill, this is interesting stuff. I was planning on making this > machine into a play thing for my son (17 months, but _loves_ to bang on > the keyboard and move the mouse). I may consider using an old x86 machine > for this task instead... Try out Babysmash. It locks the machine until a special key command is used. It displays random objects on the screen in various colors. Pretty cool. The key command would be very hard to press acidentally. Works on all MacOS's as far as I know. Been a while since I've used it though. Just a thought sim From alborchers at steinerpoint.com Wed Jun 20 10:50:47 2001 From: alborchers at steinerpoint.com (Al Borchers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux, Intel PRO/ DSL 3200 external USB modem References: <200106201425.f5KEPWK22952@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B30C657.43CC47BF@steinerpoint.com> Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 09:00:06AM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Are you sure it won't work? I know the Richochet usb wireless device uses > > the standard USB modem interface. I wonder if maybe the intel modem does > > also... > > Do you remember the i740 "AGP" graphics boards that worked only on Intel > motherboards? AGP, USB are Intel "standards". I bet the Intel modem conforms (close enough) to USB specs, but it still may need a special driver for Linux. The USB spec says how USB devices behave and how data is transfered on the USB bus, but it does not necessarily say what the data means. Its a physical and data link layer spec, but individual devices use a layer above that that may be device specific. Some modems also follow the ACM spec that describes the next layer protocol for modems. For any modem that conforms you can use the Linux ACM driver. But other modems, TAs, serial devices, and so on use proprietary protocols, so you need a driver specifically for each of those devices. The first place to look is at www.linux-usb.org under the supported devices link. I did not see the Intel Pro 3200 listed, so it is probably not supported. Next you could check the linux-usb-users mailing list archive, or test it out yourself. But the Cisco 678 (if it is anything like my 675) should work without problem. It talks to your machine over an Ethernet connection using TCP/IP/Ethernet protocols, all supported by Linux (provided your Ethernet card has a Linux driver--most do). -- Al From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Wed Jun 20 11:34:38 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux Message-ID: An excellent thought! Thanks! >>> simeonuj@eetc.com 06/20/01 11:11AM >>> "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: Try out Babysmash. It locks the machine until a special key command is used. It displays random objects on the screen in various colors. Pretty cool. The key command would be very hard to press acidentally. Works on all MacOS's as far as I know. Been a while since I've used it though. Just a thought From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 20 11:49:13 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo Message-ID: Here at work we often have to scrap old non-booting systems. I'd really like a nice 12 volt power supply at my desk but I don't want to have to attach a mobo to it. Is there any way to get the power supply to run on its own? The only info I can find is for ATX power supplies (which is as simple as jumpering two pins together with a paper clip) but nothing on AT power supplies. Anyone have any idea how to accomplish this? And yes, I know they say not to do it because you may damage your power supply, but I have an overstock of these 145 watt units so I don't care if I destroy a few trying :-) -Brian From slinabery at worldcycling.com Wed Jun 20 11:53:36 2001 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port Forwarding Message-ID: <3B30D510.1B61DA96@worldcycling.com> Hi, I have a dedicated DSL line with a block of static IPs. A few of my RedHat boxes are on public IP addresses, and one is a gateway for the LAN which consists of mostly Windows boxes with a few Linux development boxes. IP Masquerading is working fine. What I need to do is have one of the public IP boxes communicate with one of the internal LAN boxes. I'd like to be able to run code on the public box that would request a connection on, say, port 80 on the gateway box, which would be forwarded to the internal LAN box running a Java program that would serve certain files to the public box. I've tried using the ipmasqadm program with no success. RedHat 7.1 supposedly is preconfigured for IP Masquerading. When I add the lines /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -f /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L $public_ip_address 80 -R 192.168.1.41 80 to /etc/rc.d/local and run it, I get portfw: setsockopt failed: Invalid argument portfw: setsockopt failed: Invalid argument Various HowTos suggest I need to recompile my kernel. I would prefer to avoid this if possible. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Steve -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions slinabery@worldcycling.com From zibby at ringworld.org Wed Jun 20 11:53:26 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Try out Babysmash. http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,,MC11085,.html Ok, why do I wish I had a mac to try this out on? :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From ryanb at rydian.com Wed Jun 20 12:06:42 2001 From: ryanb at rydian.com (Ryan Bethke) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo References: Message-ID: <006f01c0f9ab$6bfa1810$0a00a8c0@wolfnetrb> An AT powersupply should be able to run without being hooked up to anything other than a power source, then you should just have to hit the switch. Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:49 AM Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo > Here at work we often have to scrap old non-booting systems. I'd really > like a nice 12 volt power supply at my desk but I don't want to have to > attach a mobo to it. Is there any way to get the power supply to run on > its own? > > The only info I can find is for ATX power supplies (which is as simple as > jumpering two pins together with a paper clip) but nothing on AT power > supplies. Anyone have any idea how to accomplish this? > > And yes, I know they say not to do it because you may damage your power > supply, but I have an overstock of these 145 watt units so I don't care if > I destroy a few trying :-) > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 20 12:15:58 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: <006f01c0f9ab$6bfa1810$0a00a8c0@wolfnetrb> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ryan Bethke wrote: > An AT powersupply should be able to run without being hooked up to anything > other than a power source, then you should just have to hit the switch. > > Ryan Not true. Every AT supply I've seen requires a mobo to be attached. -Brian From ben at nerp.net Wed Jun 20 12:17:44 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- there are some supplies that don't like to power up unless there is something attached.. sometimes sticking a small 5v and 12v light bulb on some of the motherboard output lines can do the trick. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > Here at work we often have to scrap old non-booting systems. I'd really > like a nice 12 volt power supply at my desk but I don't want to have to > attach a mobo to it. Is there any way to get the power supply to run on > its own? > > The only info I can find is for ATX power supplies (which is as simple as > jumpering two pins together with a paper clip) but nothing on AT power > supplies. Anyone have any idea how to accomplish this? > > And yes, I know they say not to do it because you may damage your power > supply, but I have an overstock of these 145 watt units so I don't care if > I destroy a few trying :-) > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOzDaustpDhsSpvgtAQG40AP+I9MRk9NCuRp7+qNWYSujDlIrq1ecqbUd gfeeP3SILHHUPTt1jSzGwbbZL+DkhhyRJ7AH1j5FvCxk3EFqTJ6ju+YiZgfqv+TU phInDSuqa/7Mx5ZB/LQHWGznZLDBTd1UIheKrV3drGVfFjrGPMKNv5Ln67Gi9pKW sKB3bzyPcFI= =1Irm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at umn.edu Wed Jun 20 12:19:18 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Port Forwarding Message-ID: <200106201719.MAA05501@www7.mail.umn.edu> Hi, Steve. I just went through all this a little bit ago. It's not as confusing as it seems right now. On or about 20 Jun 2001, Steve Linabery is alleged to have said: > IP Masquerading is working fine. > > What I need to do is have one of the public IP boxes communicate with > one of the internal LAN boxes. I'd like to be able to run code on the > public box that would request a connection on, say, port 80 on the > gateway box, which would be forwarded to the internal LAN box running a > Java program that would serve certain files to the public box. > > I've tried using the ipmasqadm program with no success. RedHat 7.1 > supposedly is preconfigured for IP Masquerading. > > When I add the lines > /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -f > /usr/sbin/ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L $public_ip_address 80 -R > 192.168.1.41 80 That looks OK, but what does your ipchain look like? I presume you're in a 2.2 kernel (I'm not a RedHat guru). You will also need something like /usr/sbin/ipchains -A forward -p tcp -s 0/0 1024: -d $local_ip_address 80 -j MASQ somewhere (rc.d/local, or rc.firewall, -- I don't know what's considered the best place to put it.) This allows the firewall to send packets to the forwarder. >/etc/rc.d/local and run it, I get > > portfw: setsockopt failed: Invalid argument > portfw: setsockopt failed: Invalid argument I'm not sure why -- you might want to do an lsmod and send it to the list if necessary to confirm that you have all the appropriate modules loaded. > Various HowTos suggest I need to recompile my kernel. I would prefer to > avoid this if possible. If you're running a stock recent kernel, I don't think this will be necessary. You almost certainly don't need to recompile modules either, but again, I'm not the expert. But I know how to get portfw working now. :) From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 20 12:20:39 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993057639.3b30db67471d0@dragon> Hello, Quoting Brian : > Not true. Every AT supply I've seen requires a mobo to be attached. I have to agree with Ryan. No AT power supply I've ever seen cared what was attached to it. Out of curiosity, what are you trying to power? -Yaron -- From blayer at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 12:22:51 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010620122251.31844e10.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:49:13 -0500 (CDT) "Brian" wrote: > Here at work we often have to scrap old non-booting systems. I'd really > like a nice 12 volt power supply at my desk but I don't want to have to > attach a mobo to it. Is there any way to get the power supply to run on > its own? You don't want to run an AT style supply without a load, as I am told that they are unable to properly regualte when unloaded, and output voltages can climb high enough to kill the supply. This is what I am told, I do not have first-hand experience - but I do have colleagues who have blown supplies by powering up with no load. The fix is simple, just add some fixed load value at each output, enough to keep the supply in regulation... Like perhaps a 50 Ohm, 10W resistor on the 12 V supplies, and a 25 Ohm, 5W resistor on the 5V supplies. These values should pull 200-250mA per supply. Seems like it should be fine to me... maybe even a magnitude less current is acceptable, like 20-25mA. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From blayer at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 12:29:55 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010620122955.578872a2.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:17:25 -0500 "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > Bill, > > I will be receiving a Performa 475 in a month or so and I have a > couple questions: > Where would one find a full 68040? How much can they be gotten for? You can get one on eBay for between $8 and $15 or so.. but you might just want to contact Olde Mac Milt (he's a regular eBay seller) and ask his best price for a LUG group member.. he's usually quite fair. I paid $12 including shipping for mine, from an auction. By the way, just buy the 25MHz part, don't spend the extra $$ for the 33MHz - as far as any of us can tell, they are the same. Just make sure that if you do the overclocking bit, you add a heatsink to the CPU. A 68040 at 33MHz with a 486 heatsink runs cooler than a 68040 at 25MHz bare. I attached mine with a thin smear of JB Weld. > Where could you find one of the 8390 or Apple NICs? How much? Once again eBay, but I know that Junkyard Jeff (http://www.users.qwest.net/~jgarbacz/) has a number of Apple & Asante LC-PDS NICs for cheap... if you decide to buy one, let me know, I'll take one too and we can split the shipping. Jeff always has some cool stuff, and his prices are fair. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From mend0070 at umn.edu Wed Jun 20 12:34:53 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo Message-ID: <200106201734.MAA05800@www7.mail.umn.edu> Look, it's just a switching mode power supply. There's no magic about attaching a motherboard. The reason Ben's trick below works is because sometimes they cross couple the current limiting / protection circuitry. Some chips that require both +5 and +/-12 will die if one rail dies, so the conservative P.S. designer will kill the whole supply rather than let one rail stay up and kill chips. An incandescent bulb is a bad choice, though, because they are usually 1A bulbs, and you're probably drawing a lot more current than you need to keep the supply on (and making heat, and reducing the available power you have at your disposal before you eat a fuse.) Probably a 1k resistor is more than sufficient. If you can, get a potentiometer, and find the minimum value that keeps the supply alive and then add 15-20%, and there you go. 15 minutes with a voltmeter, and you'll have a bunch of wimpy but utile bench supplies! Phil Mendelsohn On or about 20 Jun 2001, Ben Kochie is alleged to have said: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > there are some supplies that don't like to power up unless there is > something attached.. sometimes sticking a small 5v and 12v light bulb on > some of the motherboard output lines can do the trick. > > Thank You, > Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) > > "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > > > Here at work we often have to scrap old non-booting systems. I'd really > > like a nice 12 volt power supply at my desk but I don't want to have to > > attach a mobo to it. Is there any way to get the power supply to run on > > its own? > > > > The only info I can find is for ATX power supplies (which is as simple as > > jumpering two pins together with a paper clip) but nothing on AT power > > supplies. Anyone have any idea how to accomplish this? > > > > And yes, I know they say not to do it because you may damage your power > > supply, but I have an overstock of these 145 watt units so I don't care if > > I destroy a few trying :-) > > > > -Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3ia > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBOzDaustpDhsSpvgtAQG40AP+I9MRk9NCuRp7+qNWYSujDlIrq1ecqbUd > gfeeP3SILHHUPTt1jSzGwbbZL+DkhhyRJ7AH1j5FvCxk3EFqTJ6ju+YiZgfqv+TU > phInDSuqa/7Mx5ZB/LQHWGznZLDBTd1UIheKrV3drGVfFjrGPMKNv5Ln67Gi9pKW > sKB3bzyPcFI= > =1Irm > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > --Begin signature-- X ---End signature--- From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 20 12:38:33 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > Here at work we often have to scrap old non-booting systems. I'd really > like a nice 12 volt power supply at my desk but I don't want to have to > attach a mobo to it. Is there any way to get the power supply to run on > its own? > > The only info I can find is for ATX power supplies (which is as simple as > jumpering two pins together with a paper clip) but nothing on AT power > supplies. Anyone have any idea how to accomplish this? > > And yes, I know they say not to do it because you may damage your power > supply, but I have an overstock of these 145 watt units so I don't care if > I destroy a few trying :-) On most of the AT power supplies I've used, they work even w/o a MB. Have you tried it? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From ssinn at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 12:44:55 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux References: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> <20010620095114.38280fc8.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B30E117.2E230F2A@qwest.net> Bill Layer wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:21:37 -0500 > "Spencer J Sinn" wrote: > > > I just became the dubious owner of 3 Apple Macintosh Performa 467's and > > I was wondering if anyone on the list has had any luck using these. The > > hardware is listed as supported for linuxppc, mklinux or linux-m68k but > > I am willing to sacrifice an Apple to the linux gods. Any suggestions? > > Hmm... I'm not sure that the model 'Performa 467' exists, are you sure > these are not Performa 476s? > > The Performa 476 is a machine based on a 25MHz 68LC040 cpu. The 68LC040 is > an FPU-less chip, and was unsupported under earlier releases of Mac68k > Linux & NetBSD. Recently however, they seem to have gotten the fpu > emulation working for these models. Certain 68LC040 models however, can > never run *nix, as there is a 'broken' version of the chip which does not > allow for fpu emulation - if you cannot run SoftwareFPU under MacOS, the > chip is broken and won't run *nix. Replace the chip with a full 68040, or > a non-broken 68LC040. > > One nice feature that sets the Performa475, 476, LC475 and Quadra 605 > apart from all other models, is the ability to overclock these machines > without the usual clockchip replacement. It's a simple matter of adding a > switch and a couple of resistors, and the machine can be toggled between > 25 & 33Mhz. This actually increases the bus speed, not just the cpu, so > the performance gain is system-wide (including SCSI interface speed). It's > also a plug-in upgrade to add a full 68040, which gives the machine a true > hardware FPU. > > One issue that you may encounter is getting a working NIC for these > machines. They all use the proprietary Apple LC-PDS NIC, or one of the > aftermarket clones. Unfortunately, not all of the LC-PDS NICs are > supported in Linux; you'll just have to try booting a kernel and see if > the NIC is registered and assigned an interface. All of the 8390 based > NICs work (aka NE2000), as do the genuine Apple NICs. Some NICs from Dayna > do not work. > > The best Linux route for these machines is Debian Mac68k Linux, which can > be downloaded from the Debian site. I'd suggest you join the > debian-68k@lists.debian.org mailing list, as the system is still under > development, and new kernels are frequently released to the list. > > Finally, my webserver for the past year has been an overclocked LC475, > with a full 68040. It's rock-solid stable, and has never needed a reboot. > Current uptime is: 8:47am up 47 days, 11:39, 1 user, load average: > 0.07, 0.02, 0.00 > > Hope this helps, > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list The badge on the front of the machine says Performa 467, so I am guessing that is what it is. Looks like the processor is a Motorola 68030. They are interesting lttle units, 8MB RAM, 128 MB SCSI HD. Spec sheet is at http://www.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/applespec/applespec.taf?RID=70I appreciate all the info. I guess I will have to do some research before I can make this a full=fledged project. :) Hmmm The Apple/linux router project... ;) From mend0070 at umn.edu Wed Jun 20 12:51:19 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux Message-ID: <200106201751.MAA17349@www5> On or about 20 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston is alleged to have said: > "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > > > Cool! Thanks Bill, this is interesting stuff. I was planning on making this > > machine into a play thing for my son (17 months, but _loves_ to bang on > > the keyboard and move the mouse). I may consider using an old x86 machine > > for this task instead... > > Try out Babysmash. It locks the machine until a special key command is used. > It > displays random objects on the screen in various colors. Pretty cool. The > key > command would be very hard to press acidentally. > Works on all MacOS's as far as I know. Been a while since I've used it > though. I just hacked together a little ncurses program that displays a big letter on the screen. It would have been easier to do by just running an xterm with a montrous font, but Dad was a little bored when he started coding. :) My 3 year old always asks to "type the letters" and has been for almost a year now; we're not worried about reading, since the correlation between what he types and what he says has been high since he was about 15-18 mos. It's funny how when Mom and Dad spend a lot of time on the phone or looking at the "infernal screen" how it's mirrored by the little ones! From ssinn at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 13:00:57 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) References: <200106201751.MAA17349@www5> Message-ID: <3B30E4D9.B39E0D20@qwest.net> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On or about 20 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston is alleged to have said: > > "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > > > > > Cool! Thanks Bill, this is interesting stuff. I was planning on making > this > > > machine into a play thing for my son (17 months, but _loves_ to bang on > > > the keyboard and move the mouse). I may consider using an old x86 > machine > > > for this task instead... > > > > Try out Babysmash. It locks the machine until a special key command is > used. > > It > > displays random objects on the screen in various colors. Pretty cool. > The > > key > > command would be very hard to press acidentally. > > Works on all MacOS's as far as I know. Been a while since I've used it > > though. > > I just hacked together a little ncurses program that displays a big letter > on the screen. It would have been easier to do by just running an xterm > with a montrous font, but Dad was a little bored when he started coding. :) > > My 3 year old always asks to "type the letters" and has been for almost a > year now; we're not worried about reading, since the correlation between > what he types and what he says has been high since he was about 15-18 mos. > > It's funny how when Mom and Dad spend a lot of time on the phone or looking > at the "infernal screen" how it's mirrored by the little ones! > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list IMHO, I think one of the weaker point os Llinux is not its viability as a desktop ala MS Office, but its lack of childrens games. My 4 year old daughter would be running Linux right now if there were more pre-school age games for the system. I realize that, product placement and marketing being what they are, my daughter will probably always pick Beauty and the Beast over Tux but in the long run, she will learn a lot more using Linux. If I knew anything about game developement, I am sure I would try to write a game or two... From ryanb at rydian.com Wed Jun 20 13:08:16 2001 From: ryanb at rydian.com (Ryan Bethke) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo References: Message-ID: <00b301c0f9b3$fa881b60$0a00a8c0@wolfnetrb> I have a AT power supply at home that I pulled from a now defunt machine, which I use to test out fans. It's not connected to a motherboard, and works just fine. I suggest trying to power it without being connected to a MoBo. The PSU connector for the Motherboard has two connectors which are usually labeled "P1" and "P2" correct? Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ryan Bethke wrote: > > > An AT powersupply should be able to run without being hooked up to anything > > other than a power source, then you should just have to hit the switch. > > > > Ryan > > Not true. Every AT supply I've seen requires a mobo to be attached. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From zibby at ringworld.org Wed Jun 20 13:18:36 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) In-Reply-To: <3B30E4D9.B39E0D20@qwest.net> Message-ID: http://www.linuxforkids.org/ Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 13:23:41 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) In-Reply-To: <3B30E4D9.B39E0D20@qwest.net>; from ssinn@qwest.net on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 01:00:57PM -0500 References: <200106201751.MAA17349@www5> <3B30E4D9.B39E0D20@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010620132340.A4574@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 01:00:57PM -0500, Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > IMHO, I think one of the weaker point os Llinux is not its viability as > a desktop ala MS Office, but its lack of childrens games. My 4 year old > daughter would be running Linux right now if there were more pre-school > age games for the system. > I realize that, product placement and marketing being what they are, my > daughter will probably always pick Beauty and the Beast over Tux but in > the long run, she will learn a lot more using Linux. If I knew anything > about game developement, I am sure I would try to write a game or two... > There's more Linux stuff for kids out there than you might expect. Take a look at www.linuxforkids.com for a list of some of the stuff available. Also take a look at Debian Jr. - http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-jr/ . Sure there isn't as much polished software, but there's enough so that you can at least let the kids use both sides of a dual boot machine. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 13:30:10 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) In-Reply-To: <3B30E4D9.B39E0D20@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > IMHO, I think one of the weaker point os Llinux is not its viability as > a desktop ala MS Office, but its lack of childrens games. My 4 year old > daughter would be running Linux right now if there were more pre-school > age games for the system. > I realize that, product placement and marketing being what they are, my > daughter will probably always pick Beauty and the Beast over Tux but in > the long run, she will learn a lot more using Linux. If I knew anything > about game developement, I am sure I would try to write a game or two... > I understand and respect your sentiment. Frankly, though, I consider it one of the *stronger* points of Linux that it doesn't have pre-packaged, marketing based, commercialized games targeting the very young. If there were more children's software out there that was worth a twid, I might wish for it, but most of it's pap, so I'd gladly trade the ease of developing our own -- it's not too hard to entertain the little ones, and even better, teach them to invent their own games (never too young for CodeWar!) and learn to program, like when I was a boy! Oh, wait, now maybe I've gone too far. But not by much, really. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 20 13:40:27 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: <00b301c0f9b3$fa881b60$0a00a8c0@wolfnetrb> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Ryan Bethke wrote: > I have a AT power supply at home that I pulled from a now defunt machine, > which I use to test out fans. > It's not connected to a motherboard, and works just fine. I suggest trying > to power it without being connected to a MoBo. > > The PSU connector for the Motherboard has two connectors which are usually > labeled "P1" and "P2" correct? Huh... I've NEVER seen an AT power supply power on its own without any load. I think I'll be taking a trip up to Radio Shack in a moment so I can pick up some resistors and try this out. Thanks for all the help!! -Brian From blayer at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 13:46:28 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux In-Reply-To: <3B30E117.2E230F2A@qwest.net> References: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> <20010620095114.38280fc8.blayer@qwest.net> <3B30E117.2E230F2A@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010620134628.1b81830a.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:44:55 -0500 "Spencer J Sinn" wrote: > The badge on the front of the machine says Performa 467, so I am > guessing that is what it is. Looks like the processor is a Motorola > 68030. They are interesting lttle units, 8MB RAM, 128 MB SCSI HD. Spec > sheet is at > http://www.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/applespec/applespec.taf?RID=70I > appreciate all the info. I guess I will have to do some research before > I can make this a full=fledged project. :) > Hmmm The Apple/linux router project... ;) Oh, ok! I should have recognized it.. the Performa 467 is aka the LC III+.. pretty zippy little machine, 68030 @ 33MHz as you state. I actually own one of them...:) You're going to have a hard time using one as a router, as they only have a single PDS expansion slot, and hence can only have a single NIC. However, a web / ftp / nameserver would probably work out. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 20 13:44:55 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reiser on Progeny: the sweet sounds of success Message-ID: <200106201907.f5KJ7fK02169@sprite.real-time.com> Well, after nervously googling my way for the past couple of days, I finally got up the nerve to convert my ext2 partitions to Reiser. And lo and behold, three hours later, everything works! Almost. When I go to reboot, it says "reiserfs: Unrecognized mount options" and upon rebooting it checks the transaction log. /etc/fstab is as follows: /dev/hda6 / reiserfs defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 /dev/hda7 /usr/local reiserfs defaults 0 2 Oh, yes, everything is tabbed spaced (I had to cut things short in this message, for obvious reasons.) Well, I think that's it for one day, though. If anyone would like to know how I did it, I would be happy to post my steps. :Peter From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jun 20 14:13:25 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reiser on Progeny: the sweet sounds of success References: <200106201907.f5KJ7fK02169@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <007101c0f9bd$153628e0$3028680a@tgt.com> I think it is this option; defaults,errors=remount-ro I have never quite seen that layout before. Just use defaults, it will be fine. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Reiser on Progeny: the sweet sounds of success > Well, after nervously googling my way for the past couple of days, > I finally got up the nerve to convert my ext2 partitions to Reiser. And lo > and behold, three hours later, everything works! Almost. When I go to > reboot, it says "reiserfs: Unrecognized mount options" and upon rebooting > it checks the transaction log. /etc/fstab is as follows: > /dev/hda6 / reiserfs defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 > /dev/hda7 /usr/local reiserfs defaults 0 2 > Oh, yes, everything is tabbed spaced (I had to cut things short in > this message, for obvious reasons.) > Well, I think that's it for one day, though. If anyone would like > to know how I did it, I would be happy to post my steps. > :Peter > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Wed Jun 20 14:43:42 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reiser on Progeny: the sweet sounds of success In-Reply-To: <007101c0f9bd$153628e0$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 02:13:25PM -0500 References: <200106201907.f5KJ7fK02169@sprite.real-time.com> <007101c0f9bd$153628e0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010620144342.B17@beaver.iucha.org> On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 02:13:25PM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > I think it is this option; defaults,errors=remount-ro > > I have never quite seen that layout before. Just use defaults, it will be > fine. Me neither, 'till I installed debian. I have kept my / and /var ext2 though as a couple of bad experiences with RaiserFS/VIA mobo taught me. Other than that, reiser is great, I have reiser everywhere. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From jack at jacku.com Wed Jun 20 15:00:21 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Database question In-Reply-To: <992986985.3b2fc76994ee9@www.luths.net> References: <992986985.3b2fc76994ee9@www.luths.net> Message-ID: <01062015002100.03322@geezer> On Tuesday 19 June 2001 16:43, you wrote: > To not answer your question- > > You might also consider giving them (read-only) access to the MySQL > database via ODBC, that way Excel could pull data for processing as a > database client. Saves a few steps in downloading and importing delimited > text files. I've only done this a bit with Excel, but it works well for > using Access as a front end to MySQL. I assume PostgreSQL also has an ODBC > driver. > There is definitly a PostgreSQL ODBC driver. I've used it to hook into Postgres from Access and StarOffice. Jack From cgahlon at citilink.com Wed Jun 20 15:05:36 2001 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reiser on Progeny: the sweet sounds of success References: <200106201907.f5KJ7fK02169@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B310210.16047535@citilink.com> I'm all ears (er eyeballs)... Chris Gahlon peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > > Well, after nervously googling my way for the past couple of days, > I finally got up the nerve to convert my ext2 partitions to Reiser. And lo > and behold, three hours later, everything works! Almost. When I go to > reboot, it says "reiserfs: Unrecognized mount options" and upon rebooting > it checks the transaction log. /etc/fstab is as follows: > /dev/hda6 / reiserfs defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 > /dev/hda7 /usr/local reiserfs defaults 0 2 > Oh, yes, everything is tabbed spaced (I had to cut things short in > this message, for obvious reasons.) > Well, I think that's it for one day, though. If anyone would like > to know how I did it, I would be happy to post my steps. > :Peter > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 20 16:15:57 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux References: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> <20010620095114.38280fc8.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B311259.F684EBD7@eetc.com> > One nice feature that sets the Performa475, 476, LC475 and Quadra 605 > apart from all other models, is the ability to overclock these machines > without the usual clockchip replacement. It's a simple matter of adding a > switch and a couple of resistors, and the machine can be toggled between > 25 & 33Mhz. This actually increases the bus speed, not just the cpu, so > the performance gain is system-wide (including SCSI interface speed). It's > also a plug-in upgrade to add a full 68040, which gives the machine a true > hardware FPU. I may be able to get some LC II/III's. Can this be done to those also? I have no problems F'n these up and testing something new out. :-) Where can I find this info? Will this work on the original LC/LC II/III? sim From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 20 16:18:49 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Command line PDF viewer? Message-ID: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com> I am wondering if there is a command line PDF viewer? I have an old laptop w/ out X on it. Want to read a few PDF's. Ghostscript doesn't seem to like doing it. Can't seem to convert to PS or Text (something about encryption and a url to a nonexistent site w/ a patch) w/ the Ghostscript utilities. Does any thing like this exist? sim From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 20 16:36:13 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Command line PDF viewer? In-Reply-To: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I am wondering if there is a command line PDF viewer? I have an old > laptop w/ out X on it. Want to read a few PDF's. Ghostscript doesn't > seem to like doing it. Can't seem to convert to PS or Text (something > about encryption and a url to a nonexistent site w/ a patch) w/ the > Ghostscript utilities. > > Does any thing like this exist? What does pdfinfo say about it? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 16:38:29 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Command line PDF viewer? In-Reply-To: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 04:18:49PM -0500 References: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010620163828.A5269@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 04:18:49PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I am wondering if there is a command line PDF viewer? I have an old > laptop w/ out X on it. Want to read a few PDF's. Ghostscript doesn't > seem to like doing it. Can't seem to convert to PS or Text (something > about encryption and a url to a nonexistent site w/ a patch) w/ the > Ghostscript utilities. Are you using Debian? If so install the package gs-pdfencrypt - it lets gs decrypt enecrypted pdfs (its probably the patch that gs told you about ). If you're not using Debian, see http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geoffk/pdfencrypt/. The patch looks easy to install. -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From blayer at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 16:50:56 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux In-Reply-To: <3B311259.F684EBD7@eetc.com> References: <3B30B171.1178F59E@qwest.net> <20010620095114.38280fc8.blayer@qwest.net> <3B311259.F684EBD7@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010620165056.6df5029f.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:15:57 -0500 "Simeon Johnston" wrote: > I may be able to get some LC II/III's. Can this be done to those also? I > have no problems F'n these up and testing something new out. > :-) > Where can I find this info? Will this work on the original LC/LC II/III? There are pages on overclocking Macs, but afaik - the resistor trick only works on the LC475, Performa 475/476 and Quadra 605. All other models need a change of clockchip. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 20 17:00:05 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Command line PDF viewer? References: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com> <20010620163828.A5269@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B311CAB.722C2155@eetc.com> > Are you using Debian? If so install the package gs-pdfencrypt - > it lets gs decrypt enecrypted pdfs (its probably the patch > that gs told you about ). If you're not using Debian, see > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geoffk/pdfencrypt/. The patch looks > easy to install. No. Redhat 6.2. Tried Debian but didn't have time to learn a new configuration. This looks like the patch. Does Ghostscript display PDF's without Xwindows? I would rather not take up the space on my drive to convert them all. sim From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Wed Jun 20 17:10:19 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Command line PDF viewer? In-Reply-To: <3B311CAB.722C2155@eetc.com> Message-ID: If you get that work I'd like to know what packages does that? See, PDF is really just an xy coordinate plane where line art, images and text (also an image) is placed. Given that... it's not like there's an easy way to go right to text. I suppose it'd be possible to do some basic formatting for the text say... =50 spaces>some text =10 spaces> more text... ^Something for page break I've got the Dune series in PDF but it'd be nicer to read them as plain'ol'ASCII. Heck, now that I'm thinking of it this sounds like a program that someone would have written by now. And if it hasn't any competent scripter can use something like perl (I assume python too) with the PDF API and just output the thang that way. (gears churning....) Josh __SIG__ On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > Are you using Debian? If so install the package gs-pdfencrypt - > > it lets gs decrypt enecrypted pdfs (its probably the patch > > that gs told you about ). If you're not using Debian, see > > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~geoffk/pdfencrypt/. The patch looks > > easy to install. > > No. Redhat 6.2. Tried Debian but didn't have time to learn a new > configuration. > This looks like the patch. Does Ghostscript display PDF's without > Xwindows? I would rather not take up the space on my drive to convert them > all. > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jun 20 17:15:50 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: <200106201734.MAA05800@www7.mail.umn.edu> References: <200106201734.MAA05800@www7.mail.umn.edu> Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > Look, it's just a switching mode power supply. There's no magic about > attaching a motherboard. The reason Ben's trick below works is because > sometimes they cross couple the current limiting / protection circuitry. > Some chips that require both +5 and +/-12 will die if one rail dies, so the > conservative P.S. designer will kill the whole supply rather than let one > rail stay up and kill chips. I thought there was a "power good" signal fed back from the motherboard, which the power supply looked for very shortly after startup, and shut down if it wasn't present? Mine certainly behave that way! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 17:55:35 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu> References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> <004f01c0f91a$c2c91d80$01f7a8c0@monster> <007801c0f98c$376382e0$3028680a@tgt.com> <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010620175535.656caab3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Jim Crumley wrote: > > > Well, since this seems to be an ongoing problem, maybe the footer should > be a little more clear. The footer doesn't have the word unsubscribe > in it anywhere. Maybe something like: Actually, the list also contains unsubscribe information in the headers, though most mail readers don't notice them (only Pine, AFAIK..) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ MS Windows -- From the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ people who brought you \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) EDLIN! [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010620/a9e4a494/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 20 17:58:06 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Command line PDF viewer? In-Reply-To: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 04:18:49PM -0500 References: <3B311304.27E23F1C@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010620175806.O4689@real-time.com> Quoting Simeon Johnston (simeonuj@eetc.com): > I am wondering if there is a command line PDF viewer? I have an old > laptop w/ out X on it. Want to read a few PDF's. Ghostscript doesn't > seem to like doing it. Can't seem to convert to PS or Text (something > about encryption and a url to a nonexistent site w/ a patch) w/ the > Ghostscript utilities. > > Does any thing like this exist? pdf2ascii works ok. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 18:25:49 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft licensing tricks? Message-ID: <20010620182549.02be35d2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Interesting link on LinuxToday: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-20-018-20-NW-MS-SW I'm not a lawyer, so I can't parse that out too well. In one portion, it appears that you can't distribute all or portions of Microsoft's SDK along with any Open Source code you produce. The question is, does it also prevent you from writing Free apps that link to their code? It appears to prevent you from developing code with `Viral' tools (does that include editors, like XEmacs/Win32?) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ What's another word for / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Thesaurus? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010620/86f7b10c/attachment.pgp From ssinn at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 18:34:22 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) References: Message-ID: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > I understand and respect your sentiment. Frankly, though, I > consider it one of the *stronger* points of Linux that it doesn't have > pre-packaged, marketing based, commercialized games targeting the very > young. > > If there were more children's software out there that was worth a twid, I > might wish for it, but most of it's pap, so I'd gladly trade the ease of > developing our own -- it's not too hard to entertain the little ones, and > even better, teach them to invent their own games (never too young for > CodeWar!) and learn to program, like when I was a boy! Oh, wait, now > maybe I've gone too far. But not by much, really. > > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list You're right, of course; the ability to develop games is one of the strong points. Upon further reflection, a friend and I were laughably coding a Wizardry-clone for the Apple II in junior high school. http://www.linuxforkids.org has gotten a lot better than the last time I visited (over a year ago) but I would still like to see more than tetris clones. I am sure our underpaid education system would like to save money with something like Linux and OSS so they can spend their money on important things (like integration races ;) ) I guess I will just have to get more active... What language do they use to code games with nowadays? My C is a little rusty, but I am pretty sure Apple BASIC won't cut it :) From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 20 18:37:36 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft licensing tricks? In-Reply-To: <20010620182549.02be35d2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 06:25:49PM -0500 References: <20010620182549.02be35d2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010620183736.V4689@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > Interesting link on LinuxToday: > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-20-018-20-NW-MS-SW > > I'm not a lawyer, so I can't parse that out too well. In one portion, it ^^^^^ Really, your not a lawyer? I don't think I have every heard a lawyer say 'parse'. :-P More open source license issues. It's getting to be challenge as a developer that uses open source. Businesses want NDA, non-competes, your first born and your left-testicle to make sure you don't steal their ideas. It's hard to tell a client, that most (all?) techincal people don't give a rip about the idea, they just want to write the code. On the other hand there is this rich set of open source API/Products/tool to choose out there just begging to be used. But businesses (at least the ones I work with) want to own every thing. Want to resell everything and never, ever give any part of the code away. But they want the project done tomorrow, for $5 and a million features. What is a developer who uses open source to do? I'm to the point of say, I'll sign the paper work, but you must add something to the NDA that states you understand that open source software under the following licenses (fill in the blank, GPL, LGPL, Apache, etc) will be used in the project and you will follow the license agreements, which may include releasing source code to components that use an open source license. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From ssinn at qwest.net Wed Jun 20 18:37:41 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? References: <20010619073122.B23437@beaver.iucha.org> <3B2F6DB1.C7E003EA@archdirect.com> <009901c0f8e3$c44d9fa0$3028680a@tgt.com> <004f01c0f91a$c2c91d80$01f7a8c0@monster> <007801c0f98c$376382e0$3028680a@tgt.com> <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu> <20010620175535.656caab3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B3133C5.961BBA3@qwest.net> Mike Hicks wrote: > > Jim Crumley wrote: > > > > > > Well, since this seems to be an ongoing problem, maybe the footer should > > be a little more clear. The footer doesn't have the word unsubscribe > > in it anywhere. Maybe something like: > > Actually, the list also contains unsubscribe information in the headers, > though most mail readers don't notice them (only Pine, AFAIK..) > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ MS Windows -- From the > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ people who brought you > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) EDLIN! > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature If the guy doesn't work there anymore, the Mail Admin has probably rerouted his business-related mail and set up the auto-responder for all the lists he had subscribed too... Just my $0.02 From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 20 19:02:49 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LOKI Order prices sent! Message-ID: Hi there, Ok, you should all have been mailed the updated prices for the games you have ordered, along with payment instructions. A few notes: o CivCTP is still not available, so it's been removed. I apologize to the person who had nothing BUT CivCTP on his order, you probably got a long mail for nothing. o Troy Johnson: Your mail bounced. Please contact me. -Yaron -- From spencer at sihope.com Wed Jun 20 07:20:24 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: <993057639.3b30db67471d0@dragon> References: <993057639.3b30db67471d0@dragon> Message-ID: <0106200720240I.01062@red.autonomous.tv> > Quoting Brian : > > Not true. Every AT supply I've seen requires a mobo to be attached. > > I have to agree with Ryan. No AT power supply I've ever seen cared what was > attached to it. Well since everyone else has an opinion on the matter I will definately agree that an AT pws does not need anything other than AC power. I would suspect that running it without a load is not the best thing in the world, but it does work. I have done it many times. In fact I have a tattoo on my leg that was powered by, you guessed it an AT pws. ATX on the other hand will want some maninpulation before you use it without a mainboard, however, anything is possible. This is not micro$oft developement. deltree c:\windows /y From jwanderson at uswest.net Wed Jun 20 19:25:43 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian rescue CD? In-Reply-To: <20010620175535.656caab3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20010620092116.A4086@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200106210025.f5L0PiK11561@sprite.real-time.com> On 20 Jun 01, at 17:55, Mike Hicks wrote: > Actually, the list also contains unsubscribe information in the headers, > though most mail readers don't notice them (only Pine, AFAIK..) The Won32 version of Pegasus Mail shows a line reading: "[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] ". Double clicking gives a pop-up with 3 options buttons: o help/info on list o unsubscribe o subscribe Clicking on a button causes P-Mail to show what message it will send to what address and asks for conformation. Pretty slick. Jay From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 19:53:00 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LINUX Message-ID: <010620195300.20365e2d@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Thought this little tidbit might cheer some folks up: For the past two years Linux has grown faster than any other server software, reported International Data. The open-source operating system now constitutes between 10 and 27 percent of server shipments, according to various estimates. "Linux is maturing faster than any other operating system in history," reported IBM's Steve Solazzo. IBM will invest more than $1 billion in Linux this year and has been joined by Intel, Hewlett-Packard, and Computer Associates in a $24 million effort to provide Linux developers with more powerful hardware on which to test new systems. Linux is also gaining a foothold in the academic sector, with several universities taking advantage of its open source nature to train computer-science students. Linux is frustrating efforts by Microsoft to gain a dominant edge in server software, and the software giant has responded in recent weeks by attacking the open-source program, claiming that it threatens intellectual property rights. (USA Today, 20 June 2001) Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 20 19:54:52 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Evil--shear evil!!! Message-ID: <200106210117.f5L1HYK12727@sprite.real-time.com> Ok, first, I quickly cleared up that little glitch with the invalid mount options. I had used those options because that is what Progeny originally used. However, I just popped open /etc/fstab on my Mdk box and applied the diffs; problem solved. Well, now that I have ReiserFS all nice and working, you would think that would be the end of my woes, wouldn't you? Smooth sailing, right? Hah! Since I recompiled the kernel, pppd doesn't work. The modem dials up, connects, and then pppd aborts with an error code 1. I've tried recompiling with all the obvious stuff, even NFS, but no go. I just finished readingthe Lord of the Rings series. Well, I still haven't read The Hobbit, but I'm going to take a break, after reading three books in one week. Can't believe I haven't read them before. My wife was amazed that I had waited so long to read them. Anywho, this has a point. I'm beginning to think that my new box is really a cousin of the Ring. It promises unlimited power, but in the end it just corrupts the wearer/user to evil and madness. I think I'll start calling it "Precious." We won't let any nasty kernel compile hurt you, precious, oh no. Gollum! :Peter From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 20:44:48 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Evil--shear evil!!! In-Reply-To: <200106210117.f5L1HYK12727@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200106210117.f5L1HYK12727@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010620204448.579dbd22.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > > Well, now that I have ReiserFS all nice and working, you would > think that would be the end of my woes, wouldn't you? Smooth sailing, > right? Hah! Since I recompiled the kernel, pppd doesn't work. The modem > dials up, connects, and then pppd aborts with an error code 1. I've > tried recompiling with all the obvious stuff, even NFS, but no go. I know I've heard of others having trouble with ppp on newer versions of the kernel. You did recompile pppd, didn't you? Also, since pppd lives really near the kernel, you probably have to point it at the proper Linux source tree when running the configure script. If you don't do that, I'm guessing that it will automatically pick up the headers installed in /usr/include or wherever (obviously, this contradicts what we usually say about putting kernel headers in out-of-the-way places) ftp://cs.anu.edu.au/pub/software/ppp/ Maybe getting it through CVS would be good, if the newest version from above doesn't work: http://www.samba.org/ppp/ http://www.samba.org/samba/cvs.html Before I forget, pppd has been known to dump lots of log messages. Check your system's log files for any useful information. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Hard work has a future / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ payoff. Laziness pays \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) off now. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010620/9f1713db/attachment.pgp From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 20 20:55:59 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The One Ring Message-ID: <200106210222.f5L2MDK13985@sprite.real-time.com> Hah! Fixed ppp! Turns out that the ppp_async module didn't get compiled/loaded. I hope nobody minds that I'm randomly driveling on the list. Most of my higher cognitive functions have been cat /dev/null. Makes me feel like...poetry! Three modules for the sys-admins under the sky, Seven for the PHBs in their halls of stone, Nice for the lusers doomed to die, One for the BOFH on his dark throne In the Land of Finland where the boxen lie. One Box to ping them all, One Box to root them, One Box to bring them all and in /dev/null bind them In the Land of Finland where the boxen lie. I need to get out more... :Peter From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Wed Jun 20 21:23:14 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> I'm sorry ahead of time but sometimes I just can't help myself. When I hear someone talking about how underfunded the education system is I just can't help it. If I can beleive what I hear on the radio Minnesota will spend between 7 and 10 Billion (yeah that's a B) dollars on public education in the next two years. http://www.pioneerplanet.com/reprints/052399skul.htm Minneapolis spends $15,000 per school year per student. Public funding for K-12 education increased 802 million dollars for the 2000-2001 budget. http://www.finance.state.mn.us/bb/adptd00-01.html In 2003 the U of M is slated to get nearly 1 billion in state funding, you can get the PDF here: (check out page B-89) http://morefinance.state.mn.us/budget/operating/20022003/recommendedrequests/billhed.shtml The average teacher makes $35K a year to start and after ten years can make $70K a year, they have a 1200 hour work year. ( I bet you work over 2000 hours in a year.) I wish I could be so underpaid. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Spencer J Sinn wrote: I am > sure our underpaid education system would like to save money with something like > Linux and OSS so they can spend their money on important things (like integration > races ;) -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 20 21:37:32 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using an AT power supply without a mobo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Phil Mendelsohn writes: > > > Look, it's just a switching mode power supply. There's no magic about > > attaching a motherboard. The reason Ben's trick below works is because > > sometimes they cross couple the current limiting / protection circuitry. > > Some chips that require both +5 and +/-12 will die if one rail dies, so the > > conservative P.S. designer will kill the whole supply rather than let one > > rail stay up and kill chips. > > I thought there was a "power good" signal fed back from the > motherboard, which the power supply looked for very shortly after > startup, and shut down if it wasn't present? Mine certainly behave > that way! We're saying the same thing. You're talking about remote sensing. If one of the rails dies, the remote sense falls below threshhold and the supply shuts down. But it's a logical OR -- any one of the rails will cause the same behavior. That's a kind of protection -- don't let things run on one rail if the others fail, 'cause some IC's will smoke if you do. Probably the same thing happens if one of the rails shorts to ground too. Rather than just go into current limiting on one rail, it shuts the whole supply down to keep from unevenly stressing components. If you want to test that one, use an alligator clip to make a dead short between ground and one of the rails. If the supply does fault protection that way, you'll remove the jumper and everything will come back into line. If it doesn't survive, then it must have *been* a witch! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jack at jacku.com Thu Jun 21 06:54:20 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <01062106542000.01822@geezer> On Wednesday 20 June 2001 21:23, you wrote: > I'm sorry ahead of time but sometimes I just can't help myself. When I hear > someone talking about how underfunded the education system is I just can't > help it. > > > > > If I can beleive what I hear on the radio Minnesota will spend between 7 > and 10 Billion (yeah that's a B) dollars on public education in the next > > The average teacher makes $35K a year to start and after ten years can make > $70K a year, they have a 1200 hour work year. ( I bet you work over 2000 > hours in a year.) > > I wish I could be so underpaid. > > > > > Sorry, sorry, sorry. > > > Spencer J Sinn wrote: I'm not sure where you came up with 1200 hours a year but let me give you some numbers to think about before you solidfy you're opinion that teachers are overpaid for the amount of work they do. Last time I checked the school year was 180 days long so these numbers are based on that. They are also based on my wife's experience teaching in the St Paul Public School System for time in the early 1990s. Start Time: 7:00 AM End Time: 3:00 PM Lunch break 30 min Day Total: 7.5 hours day school/class time Year Total: 1350 Hours Assuming that the average secondary teacher carries a load of 150 students and spends an average of 1 minute per school day per student grading homework, tests, etc. That adds 150 min * 180 Days/year = 27000 min/year or 450 hrs/year Also assume that the same teacher spends 1min/day/student on course planning, parent teacher conferences, and misc. paper work and you get an additional 450 hours. Grand total: 2250 hours/year Average corporate employee's year. These numbers are based on my own experience of 17 years, give or take a bit, as a corporate employee. Much of that time as a contractor who has had to count his hours. Weeks per year: 52 or 260 days (5 days/week) Days paid leave(aka vacation): 10 Holidays: 6* Personal Holidays: 2* Total days worked: 242 Total hours @ 8hrs/day = 1936 Total hours @ 10hrs/day = 2420 *Holidays are New Year's Day, Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Also most companies give you a couple of extra days that are technically not vacation. If you get any other holidays at your place of business subtract those for a more accurate calculation. While most of us would hope that the average High School teacher is spending more than 2 minutes/day/student outside the demands put on them inside the school building most of us don't make a habit of working 10 hr/days in the corporate ranks if we are making $35K-$70K per year. I'll close with this one thought: If teaching were such a desirable pay/work ratio why isn't there a glut of teachers? Jack From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Jun 21 07:24:41 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Memory question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nate Carlson writes: > On 19 Jun 2001, Jon Schewe wrote: > > Is there a way to determine if the DIMMS in a machine are registered or not > > without looking at the DIMMS? > > Have you tried looking up the motherboard and/or chipset? Yes, that's why I need to figure out what's in there. The board supports both registered and unbuffered. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 21 09:06:32 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <01062106542000.01822@geezer>; from jack@jacku.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 06:54:20AM -0500 References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> <01062106542000.01822@geezer> Message-ID: <20010621090632.A18963@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 06:54:20AM -0500, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > On Wednesday 20 June 2001 21:23, you wrote: > > I'm sorry ahead of time but sometimes I just can't help myself. When I hear > > someone talking about how underfunded the education system is I just can't > > help it. > > > > > > > > > > If I can beleive what I hear on the radio Minnesota will spend between 7 > > and 10 Billion (yeah that's a B) dollars on public education in the next > > > > > The average teacher makes $35K a year to start and after ten years can make > > $70K a year, they have a 1200 hour work year. ( I bet you work over 2000 > > hours in a year.) > > > > I wish I could be so underpaid. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, sorry, sorry. > > > > > > Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > > [graciously snipped] > > There is a saying in Latin (sorry I couldn't remember it, my high-school Latin kinda rusted) that translates (roughly to): "The one who Gods hate, they made him a teacher" Have you had any teaching experience? I have taught some computer operating/ word processing/excel number-munging to _school teachers_ for two weeks and believe me, it was exhausting. My wife taught math for a couple of weeks to childrens in grades 5-8. Did you _ever_ had to control 20 kids? To silence them? To persuade them to do _anything_? The attention span of a 6 year old is under 1 minute :) Look in the supermarket for parents who can barely control their own kid. When you say that teachers are overpaid you don't know what are you talking about. It takes special (wo)man to be a teacher. I know I couldn't. [This message largely ignores the possibility to catch a bullet during the work hours.] It's very easy to put dollar figures over the heads of a bunch of people: we give $X for education, $Y for health, $Z for justice. It gets harder when you look at your slice: and your doctor says - sorry, you are sick but you medical insurance covers a 10 minute visit and this tylenol; and your local school says - sorry, for the budget we have we will put your kids together with another 40 and watch them not to kick themselves too hard. It's very tempting to judge someone else's shoes without trying them on. florin DISCLAIMER: I DON'T HAVE KIDS (YET) AND I CAN AFFORD DECENT MEDICAL INSURANCE. -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 09:16:35 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] - Needed: Shared shop space / workspace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010621091635.27cef34a.blayer@qwest.net> Might as well put this to the list, I know we have motorheads and tinkerers on here, I need some shop space to work on motorcycles and an ultralight aircraft project (...) that I' starting this summer, and I thought I'd see if anyone on the list has a) a space to rent or share or b) the desire to rent a shared space. Requirements are: electrical power, lights, ventilation, good security, and access doors to allow something as wide as 7" to roll in or out (not frequently, but I need to get it out the door when done). Motorcycles will come in & out on a more frequent basis. The space should be in the metro area, preferably in St. Paul or NE / SE Mpls. A double-car garage in a residential area would be just fine, and I am willing to help make improvements on the space if need be. I have a full set of mechanic's hand and air tools, a compressor and a drill press which I will store there, plus up to three motorcycles. Let me know. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 09:19:34 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <20010621090632.A18963@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010621091934.P1470@ringworld.org> * Florin Iucha [010621 09:07]: > Look in the supermarket for parents who can barely control their own kid. I swear, some parents think school is a replacement of actually parenting their kid(s). You end up in jr. high/high school with these people who cant even deal with life and turn teachers into overpaid babysitters and wasting other students time. It blows. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/5ebd2af9/attachment.pgp From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jun 21 09:24:33 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> <01062106542000.01822@geezer> <20010621090632.A18963@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <005c01c0fa5d$e4f44490$3028680a@tgt.com> Hey, the type of work is the choice you make when you go into the field. One can not legitimately complain about having to "control" the kids when it is and always has been a part of the job. That is not a rational argument for a teacher to make when justifying a pay schedule, as it is part of the job. The work is hard, fine. So is loading huge bags of rock salt onto a railroad car, or sorting potatos in an Osseo plant. A teacher does that work either because (s)he wants to or (s)he can. Supply and Demand economics will dictate what the work is worth to society, and to put in so few hours for the money listed below seems to appear a premium considering what kids are getting out of school these days IMHO. We are not graduating the quality of students that we used to and yet we are paying MUCH more for it. In most industries, the product [and supply of] will dictate the demand and thus the pay scale, but when public money is concerned, these rules don't apply in the normal way and things often get out of proportion before a problem is noticed. Well, the education problem is beginning to get noticed. When we start exporting our companies to other countries because they have better educated minds and lower taxes, you will see the affect that our lack of educational responsibility has cost us. Having said all that -- this is not the appropriate forum for this debate and it should be taken off list. Might I suggest the newsgroup mn.politics, or these days mn.general could be abused as well. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Florin Iucha" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it > On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 06:54:20AM -0500, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > On Wednesday 20 June 2001 21:23, you wrote: > > > I'm sorry ahead of time but sometimes I just can't help myself. When I hear > > > someone talking about how underfunded the education system is I just can't > > > help it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I can beleive what I hear on the radio Minnesota will spend between 7 > > > and 10 Billion (yeah that's a B) dollars on public education in the next > > > > > > > > The average teacher makes $35K a year to start and after ten years can make > > > $70K a year, they have a 1200 hour work year. ( I bet you work over 2000 > > > hours in a year.) > > > > > > I wish I could be so underpaid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, sorry, sorry. > > > > > > > > > Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > > > > > > [graciously snipped] > > > > > > There is a saying in Latin (sorry I couldn't remember it, my high-school Latin > kinda rusted) that translates (roughly to): > "The one who Gods hate, they made him a teacher" > > Have you had any teaching experience? I have taught some computer operating/ > word processing/excel number-munging to _school teachers_ for two weeks and > believe me, it was exhausting. > > My wife taught math for a couple of weeks to childrens in grades 5-8. > > Did you _ever_ had to control 20 kids? To silence them? To persuade them to > do _anything_? The attention span of a 6 year old is under 1 minute :) > > Look in the supermarket for parents who can barely control their own kid. > > When you say that teachers are overpaid you don't know what are you talking > about. > > It takes special (wo)man to be a teacher. I know I couldn't. > > [This message largely ignores the possibility to catch a bullet during the > work hours.] > > It's very easy to put dollar figures over the heads of a bunch of people: > we give $X for education, $Y for health, $Z for justice. > > It gets harder when you look at your slice: and your doctor says - sorry, > you are sick but you medical insurance covers a 10 minute visit and this > tylenol; and your local school says - sorry, for the budget we have we will > put your kids together with another 40 and watch them not to kick themselves > too hard. > > It's very tempting to judge someone else's shoes without trying them on. > > > > florin > > DISCLAIMER: I DON'T HAVE KIDS (YET) AND I CAN AFFORD DECENT MEDICAL INSURANCE. > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From rsinland at gvtel.com Thu Jun 21 09:49:30 2001 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> <01062106542000.01822@geezer> <20010621090632.A18963@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B32097A.45937144@gvtel.com> Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 06:54:20AM -0500, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > On Wednesday 20 June 2001 21:23, you wrote: > > > I'm sorry ahead of time but sometimes I just can't help myself. When I hear > > > someone talking about how underfunded the education system is I just can't > > > help it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I can beleive what I hear on the radio Minnesota will spend between 7 > > > and 10 Billion (yeah that's a B) dollars on public education in the next > > > > > > > > The average teacher makes $35K a year to start and after ten years can make > > > $70K a year, they have a 1200 hour work year. ( I bet you work over 2000 > > > hours in a year.) > > > > > > I wish I could be so underpaid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, sorry, sorry. > > > > > > > > > Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > > > > > > [graciously snipped] > > > > > > There is a saying in Latin (sorry I couldn't remember it, my high-school Latin > kinda rusted) that translates (roughly to): > "The one who Gods hate, they made him a teacher" > > Have you had any teaching experience? I have taught some computer operating/ > word processing/excel number-munging to _school teachers_ for two weeks and > believe me, it was exhausting. > > My wife taught math for a couple of weeks to childrens in grades 5-8. > > Did you _ever_ had to control 20 kids? To silence them? To persuade them to > do _anything_? The attention span of a 6 year old is under 1 minute :) > > Look in the supermarket for parents who can barely control their own kid. > > When you say that teachers are overpaid you don't know what are you talking > about. > > It takes special (wo)man to be a teacher. I know I couldn't. > > [This message largely ignores the possibility to catch a bullet during the > work hours.] > > It's very easy to put dollar figures over the heads of a bunch of people: > we give $X for education, $Y for health, $Z for justice. > > It gets harder when you look at your slice: and your doctor says - sorry, > you are sick but you medical insurance covers a 10 minute visit and this > tylenol; and your local school says - sorry, for the budget we have we will > put your kids together with another 40 and watch them not to kick themselves > too hard. > > It's very tempting to judge someone else's shoes without trying them on. > > > > florin > > DISCLAIMER: I DON'T HAVE KIDS (YET) AND I CAN AFFORD DECENT MEDICAL INSURANCE. > > -- > Here is a new shoe to try on, Nurse, LPN, responsable for the lives of some 80 folks any one shift. No insurance AT ALL.... NO 401k , no nothing.... I figure if I don't get sick and miss work I might make $25k this year. I work most holidays ( we don't close, operate 24/7/365) And IF those bastards in the state congress don't get their shit together I might not even get paid next month. Sorry, my two cents worth... RS From hwagamon at andersonww.com Thu Jun 21 09:47:49 2001 From: hwagamon at andersonww.com (Heather Wagamon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski Message-ID: <01C0FA37.3C8A0F40.hwagamon@andersonww.com> This is kinda off-topic too. Jamie!! I need your help with my server and your email doens't work anymore... please email me at my personal email address. Thanks!! Heather W From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Jun 21 09:54:30 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> <01062106542000.01822@geezer> <20010621090632.A18963@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <3B320AA6.D9CE2DCB@structural-wood.com> Florin Iucha wrote: > [ big snippage ] > > There is a saying in Latin (sorry I couldn't remember it, my high-school Latin > kinda rusted) that translates (roughly to): > "The one who Gods hate, they made him a teacher" > > Have you had any teaching experience? I have taught some computer operating/ > word processing/excel number-munging to _school teachers_ for two weeks and > believe me, it was exhausting. > > My wife taught math for a couple of weeks to childrens in grades 5-8. > > Did you _ever_ had to control 20 kids? To silence them? To persuade them to > do _anything_? The attention span of a 6 year old is under 1 minute :) Did you ever unload a box car of cedar decking in 100 degree heat? Have you ever worked 6 months of 100 hours weeks to do an emergency rebuild of a data center? Have you ever... > > Look in the supermarket for parents who can barely control their own kid. > > When you say that teachers are overpaid you don't know what are you talking > about. > > It takes special (wo)man to be a teacher. I know I couldn't. It takes a special kind of person to be a teacher, baseball player, computer programmer, ballet dancer, etc... I know I can't do three of the above. I bet most teachers can't do three of the above either. I had a teacher for a roommate for a couple of years. She left for her job about 20 minutes after I did and got home about an hour before I did. While she did her grading, etc..., I read the books I needed to keep up with the computer profession. When summer rolled around she slept in for a couple of weeks and puttered around the house, and then took a month long trip to Europe. I still went to work, and still read my books in the evening. Our pay at that time was about the same. It looked to me like she worked hard when she worked, but she didn't work as often as most people I know. The last time I had a summer off was in 1982. The next time I will have a summer off is in 2026. > > [This message largely ignores the possibility to catch a bullet during the > work hours.] > > It's very easy to put dollar figures over the heads of a bunch of people: > we give $X for education, $Y for health, $Z for justice. > > It gets harder when you look at your slice: and your doctor says - sorry, > you are sick but you medical insurance covers a 10 minute visit and this > tylenol; and your local school says - sorry, for the budget we have we will > put your kids together with another 40 and watch them not to kick themselves > too hard. Oh please - budget increases seem to largely go to more administrators, more 'special services' (grief counselors?), more building features (my son has a grand piano in his hallway), more pay for teachers. The last thing they ever address is the dreaded 'too many children in the classroom', because that issue has so much political clout they can't afford to get rid of it. Since less students per teacher means the teachers will need to work less hard, maybe they should fund smaller class sizes by cutting teachers pay... > > It's very tempting to judge someone else's shoes without trying them on. There will be a boxcar of siding out in the railyard sometime this summer. If it ever gets hot, I could use a teacher to unload it... > > > > florin > OK, back to juggling pid's and tracking resources. I've been trying to wrap fork(), exec() and now clone() for a long time with a more intuitive API and have yet to succeed. Maybe 'they' were right in the first place... From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jun 21 10:09:24 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski In-Reply-To: <01C0FA37.3C8A0F40.hwagamon@andersonww.com>; from hwagamon@andersonww.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 09:47:49AM -0500 References: <01C0FA37.3C8A0F40.hwagamon@andersonww.com> Message-ID: <20010621100924.A7747@minime.sistina.com> On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 09:47:49AM -0500, Heather Wagamon wrote: >This is kinda off-topic too. > >Jamie!! >I need your help with my server and your email doens't work anymore... please email me at my personal email address. Why not just post your question to the list, perhaps we can help. > >Thanks!! >Heather W >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/53569c3e/attachment.pgp From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Thu Jun 21 10:07:16 2001 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Clearing up FUD Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A593F584@ipserver2.interplastic.com> I hope this sets the record straight. http://www.visi.com/~x018/license-games.html From ben at nerp.net Thu Jun 21 10:18:25 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- no beermeeting tonight? :( Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOzIQQstpDhsSpvgtAQEQUAQAkIED4UnlzcZgvagBDOTJdZ9goAo8qLdc I8YffGmQW3O5UnZdmnLznN2l2yqugvYuPEUKEL05tnKtiMVwf5y+cedz6I5U2a3r eeSy2Fb2kV6wpA7kSKWn6mpzYVS0Dvn1Cw3vdSaJr7RxQDmJbbmtlyj+F2LDg3Wm XWrISVWgpvY= =cicC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 10:20:23 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry Icouldn't help it In-Reply-To: <20010621091934.P1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Scott Dier wrote: > * Florin Iucha [010621 09:07]: > > Look in the supermarket for parents who can barely control their own kid. > > I swear, some parents think school is a replacement of actually > parenting their kid(s). This is bad as you say. What's just as bad is the do-good social "science" types in the education who think they know more about kids than parents from their undergrad child development classes. Bad / lazy / irresponsible parents cause a lot of trouble in the system. Teachers who are allowed to teach without satisfying the pre-req. of successfully raising their own child are another problem. Administrators suffer from the same bouts of idiocy as managers everywhere. The marvel of democracy ensures that any ill-qualified nimrod can be elected to a school board, and the State and Federal Gov't's all get to pee in the pool, too. The Unionization of teachers is way out of hand, esp. in MN. No matter what the pay scale, there are bound to be people who are worth more than anything you could ever pay them, and deadwood, too. Education isn't an inoculation against stupidity. Do the best you can, avoid idiots whenever possible, and pay close attention to who your children are listenting / talking to -- whether it's in the school-yard, or the classroom. Now that should take care of education. Shall I sum up politics? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 21 10:30:58 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [WARNING WAY OT] Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux),Sorry I couldn't help it Message-ID: >>> kent@structural-wood.com 06/21/01 09:54AM >>> >Oh please - budget increases seem to largely go to more administrators, more >'special services' (grief counselors?) 'Special Services' is _the_ growth industry within education, largely supported by federal and state mandates (it is Special Education, "self-contained" classrooms, Speech, serving the EBD (emotionally/behaviorally distrubed) and lower functioning children) . I think the reason we have such turmoil in our state legislature today is that some of our representatives see a need to pay for the services they have put on the back of education, and some didn't want those services mixed into education in the first place. I do agree that this discussion belongs elsewhere. Not even remotely linux connected. From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 21 10:27:09 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Im working on that, my HD finally died... so its a little last minute sorry. ~j -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Kochie Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 10:18 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- no beermeeting tonight? :( Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOzIQQstpDhsSpvgtAQEQUAQAkIED4UnlzcZgvagBDOTJdZ9goAo8qLdc I8YffGmQW3O5UnZdmnLznN2l2yqugvYuPEUKEL05tnKtiMVwf5y+cedz6I5U2a3r eeSy2Fb2kV6wpA7kSKWn6mpzYVS0Dvn1Cw3vdSaJr7RxQDmJbbmtlyj+F2LDg3Wm XWrISVWgpvY= =cicC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 10:36:07 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The One Ring In-Reply-To: <200106210222.f5L2MDK13985@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200106210222.f5L2MDK13985@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: peter.clark@tides.com writes: > Hah! Fixed ppp! Turns out that the ppp_async module didn't get > compiled/loaded. > I hope nobody minds that I'm randomly driveling on the list. Most > of my higher cognitive functions have been cat /dev/null. Makes me feel > like...poetry! > > Three modules for the sys-admins under the sky, > Seven for the PHBs in their halls of stone, > Nice for the lusers doomed to die, > One for the BOFH on his dark throne > In the Land of Finland where the boxen lie. > One Box to ping them all, One Box to root them, > One Box to bring them all and in /dev/null bind them In the Land of > Finland where the boxen lie. > > I need to get out more... Yeah, really. I hear sitting around at home too long can lead to thinking "root" rhymes with "bind"! -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 10:39:29 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <01062106542000.01822@geezer> References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> <01062106542000.01822@geezer> Message-ID: Jack Ungerleider writes: > I'll close with this one thought: If teaching were such a desirable pay/work > ratio why isn't there a glut of teachers? While I largely agree with you, my impression is that there *is* a glut of teachers; I know a number of people wanting to get into the field who are doing various related things waiting for an opening to show up that they can apply for -- over and over again. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 10:40:49 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010621104049.546fd653.blayer@qwest.net> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:27:09 -0500 "Jacqueline Urick" wrote: > Im working on that, my HD finally died... so its a little last minute Grrr.. all slacking and no beermeeting makes Billy something something.. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From drew at usfamily.net Thu Jun 21 04:52:37 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <3B3132FE.3CD5A671@qwest.net> <3B315A92.30805@mn.rr.com> <01062106542000.01822@geezer> Message-ID: <3B31C3E5.88EBC764@usfamily.net> I think that what he meant is that there is not a very large demand for teachers. David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jack Ungerleider writes: > > > I'll close with this one thought: If teaching were such a desirable pay/work > > ratio why isn't there a glut of teachers? > > While I largely agree with you, my impression is that there *is* a > glut of teachers; I know a number of people wanting to get into the > field who are doing various related things waiting for an opening to > show up that they can apply for -- over and over again. > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/c0990d7e/drew.vcf From kethry at winternet.com Thu Jun 21 11:15:39 2001 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <01062106542000.01822@geezer> Message-ID: > Please add to this the fact that teachers are NOT allowed to take potty breaks the way normal corporate employees are allowed to - which means IF they are drinking enough water during the day (important health aspect) then they are uncomfortable most of the day - if they're NOT drinking enough water, then you have teachers taht can easily get sick, stressed, pained, etc.... 35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! But it's also the reason I DON'T gripe at spending 800/month to send my children to a private school (through kindergarden) where the teachers are paid a decent salary, treated with respect, and are given good solid benefits with a comfortable environment. Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From hwagamon at andersonww.com Thu Jun 21 11:19:47 2001 From: hwagamon at andersonww.com (Heather Wagamon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) Message-ID: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com> Actually, I'm not having a server "problem" exactly. I went to school with Jamie and just wanted to get a hold of him so I could get his advice on something since he's helped me out a lot in the past. I just graduated recently from college and am now working as a linux/unix system admin. I don't have much experience with Linux or Unix and have been learning a lot of it as problems arise. So... I've been thinking that I want to set up a personal Linux web/email server at home so I can learn linux easier and become more comfortable with it. I was wondering... what's the best linux/unix to use? I was thinking "Red Hat" since that's what we use here. I have a friend who also wants to set up a server. We were thinking we could get a DSL line and a hub and connect them both up through the same DSL line. One of the things I'm not sure about, though, are the IP addresses. Since we'll have 2 servers on one DSL line, we'll need to buy IP Addresses? Are they expensive? We don't want to spend a whole lot right now just to learn networking. I guess the point of it all is... does anyone have any advice for a Linux Newbie who wants to set up a web/email server in her living room? :-) Thanks!! Heather From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 21 11:28:58 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: <20010621104049.546fd653.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20010621104049.546fd653.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <993140938.3b3220cab069a@dragon> Hey, Quoting Bill Layer : > Grrr.. all slacking and no beermeeting makes Billy something > something.. Go crazy? From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 21 11:34:06 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn't help it Message-ID: >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? From peter.clark at tides.com Thu Jun 21 11:14:16 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ext2 > reiser HOWTO Message-ID: <200106211637.f5LGbAK01788@sprite.real-time.com> Ok, for all you folks who want to know how to Reiser your ext2 partitions under Progeny/Debian(Woody), including /, here goes. I am assuming that you use GRUB. LILO folks will have to figure out the relevent portions on their own. ObWarning: This is potentially dangerous stuff. Past a certain point, your old kernel will no longer work, because it won't be able to read the Reiserfs partitions. YOU CAN ROYALLY SCREW UP YOUR SYSTEM! MAKE BACKUPS NOW! If you do not have a second computer with GRUB, make a bootable GRUB disk right away and test it. Ok, now that my conscience is free, we can continue. I will assume that you have two or more ext2 partitions. If you have only one ext2 partition, then you're going to have to either repartition it or think of some other brilliant way. I will also assume that you will use the latest kernel, 2.4.5. Our basic procedure is this: first, we reiser a blank partition; next, we copy all of the files on the root partition to the newly reisered partition; then we reiser the root partition, copy everything back, and badda-bing, badda-boom, we're done! Now for the LONG instructions: Step 1: apt-get install reiserfsprogs This is fairly obvious; this includes mkreiserfs, which we will need to make reisered partitions. Step 2: Since there is a small bug in the current 2.4.5 kernel with umount and reiserfs, we'll need to apply a patch from ftp://ftp.namesys.com/pub/reiserfs-for-2.4/linux-2.4.5-reiserfs-umount-fix. patch Step 3: Apply: patch -p0 < linux-2.4.5-reiserfs-umount-fix.patch 4. Compile kernel (don't forget to turn on experimental features and select ReiserFS!) Alternately, wait until 2.4.6 comes out and check www.namesys.com (the ReiserFS homepage) to see if the bug has been fixed. Step 4: Compile kernel with ReiserFS. (You will need to turn on the experimental options.) Try out the new kernel first before you do anything else. Step 5: For convinience, I will say that the two partitions you wish to reiser are /dev/hda6 and /dev/hda7, mount points / and /usr/local, respectively. Tar and gzip /usr/local and store local.tar.gz in /usr for the moment. Step 6: mkdir /hda7 and mkreiserfs /dev/hda7 Step 7: Edit /ect/fstab, changing the moint point and fs type of /dev/hda7 accordingly (/hda7 and reiserfs, respectively). Step 8: mount /hda7 Step 9: Copy all the files from the root partition (/) to /hda7. Since I only had one partition to worry about, cp -ax / /hda7 worked for me. The -x will only copy what's on the /dev/hda6 partition; obviously, you don't want to copy the /dev/hda7 partition. This also avoids copying /proc. However, if for some reason that doesn't work for you (extra partitions, what not), look at http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/Hard-Disk-Upgrade/copy.html for more ways of copying your root partition. Step 9.5: mkdir /hda7/proc. I forgot about this one; I also found out that it isn't necessary to have a /proc directory, but it would probably be a Good Idea (TM). Step 10: Now what we want to do is make /hda7 our new root partition. So edit /hda7/etc/fstab (note: NOT /etc/fstab!) and change its mountpoint to /. I also commented out /dev/hda6, so that it wouldn't be mounted. Step 11: Similarily, edit /hda7/boot/grub/menu.lst to boot to /dev/hda7. Also, don't forget to change "root (hd0,5)" to "root (hd0,6)". Step 12: I found it necessary to edit /etc/fstab and change the mount points there, too. I really don't know why, as GRUB should have booted /dev/hda7, but I suspect it has to do with the copy of GRUB in the MBR. Step 13: Say a prayer and reboot. Step 14: If all goes well, you will be able to mkreiserfs /dev/hda6. Step 15: mkdir /hda6. Step 16: Edit /etc/fstab so that is has the mount point /hda6 and the fs Reiserfs. Step 17: mount /hda6. Step 18: At this point, you have a choice: count yourself lucky and keep hda7 as your new root partition, or copy everything back to hda6. I will assume you want to copy everything back; otherwise, you can mount hda6 wherever you want. To copy everything back, repeat steps 9 and 9.5, with appropriate changes (hda7 -> hda6). Step 19: Back to /hda6/etc/fstab: make hda6 /, hda7 whatever. Just make sure that there is a mount point for hda7. In my case, it was /usr/local, so I had to mkdir /hda5/usr/local. Step 20: Edit /hda6/boot/grub/menu.lst and change everything back to the way it originally was. Step 21: Reinstall GRUB to the MBR, making sure that it replicates what's in /hda6/boot/grub/menu.lst. I did not do this step, so when I rebooted, I got a GRUB error and everything froze. As a result, I had to write GRUB to a floppy in order to boot. Once I rewrote the MBR, everything was fine. Step 22: Just in case, you may want to comment out /etc/fstab, just to make sure. I think that rewriting the MBR will correct the problems I had at steps 12 and 21; hopefully someone can tell me for sure. Step 23: Pray REALLY hard and reboot. Step 24: If all goes well, you know have your root partition resiered! At this point, I imagine it would be trivial to convert other partitions to reiser. Simply archive their contents, mkreiserfs their partitions, and unarchive again. Also, your old kernel is now useless; delete it and edit GRUB (if you haven't already done so). Step 25: Share and enjoy! And in closing, here's your message of the day: 30 million physical source lines of code: $0 8,000 person years of development time: $0 Savings resulting from Free software: $1,000,000,000 The sweat, agony, and ultimate joy of running GNU/Linux: Priceless :Peter P.S. If you see any errors, respond post haste! I took notes as I did everything, but i may have overlooked a step. From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 21 11:33:29 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? - how about a scotch meeting? In-Reply-To: <993140938.3b3220cab069a@dragon> Message-ID: > Grrr.. all slacking and no beermeeting makes Billy something > something.. Go crazy? Bill's already crazy. With or with out the beermeeting. How about we have a Scotch meeting at the Monte Carlo this week and a beer meeting next week? Thats two weeks in a row of drinking with your TCLUG buddies. Wow! ~j From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 11:45:30 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? - how about a scotch meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > How about we have a Scotch meeting at the Monte Carlo this week and a beer > meeting next week? Thats two weeks in a row of drinking with your TCLUG > buddies. Wow! Two questions: 1: Where's the Monte Carlo? 2: If I attend, will I be forced again to watch someone ruin a single malt scotch by putting ice in it? If yer nae gwin to do it right, leave the poor dram alone! Or off an bile yer heid! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From drew at usfamily.net Thu Jun 21 05:32:40 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry Icouldn't help it References: Message-ID: <3B31CD48.B4593AB8@usfamily.net> I think that it all comes down to how much do you think that your childs education is worth. Do you think that he should get a 35k education or a 70k education? Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > > > > Please add to this the fact that teachers are NOT allowed to take potty > breaks the way normal corporate employees are allowed to - which means IF > they are drinking enough water during the day (important health aspect) > then they are uncomfortable most of the day - if they're NOT drinking > enough water, then you have teachers taht can easily get sick, stressed, > pained, etc.... > > 35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! But it's > also the reason I DON'T gripe at spending 800/month to send my children to > a private school (through kindergarden) where the teachers are paid a > decent salary, treated with respect, and are given good solid benefits > with a comfortable environment. > > Liz > > -- > Imagination is intelligence having fun... > e-mail: kethry@winternet.com > URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/5ff89408/drew.vcf From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 11:46:46 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> > >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! > > And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? You don't have kids, do you? How much would a year would we have to pay *you* to do it full-time? :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From kethry at winternet.com Thu Jun 21 11:46:48 2001 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn't help it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It would depend on a lot of things - and at this point, I'm sorry that I made the comment in general. I do think that the current pay structure needs to be overhauled -and do NOT have a problem with some of Jesse's ideas on teacher accountability - just not completely to his extent. There are teachers out there that shouldn't be teaching and the tenure system both helps some teachers and hides the deficiencies in the system, and teachers out there that might be good, but still aren't performing - and don't deserve as much as they get...Agreed, though - this topic is better left discussed in private email or in a different forum -email privately kethry@winternet.com if you would like to continue :) Liz On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> > >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! > > And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From ben at nerp.net Thu Jun 21 11:47:41 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? - how about a scotch meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- oh boy... i take it this isn't a place where the under age people can just watch. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > > > > > Grrr.. all slacking and no beermeeting makes Billy something > > something.. > > Go crazy? > > Bill's already crazy. With or with out the beermeeting. > > How about we have a Scotch meeting at the Monte Carlo this week and a beer > meeting next week? Thats two weeks in a row of drinking with your TCLUG > buddies. Wow! > > > ~j > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOzIlLstpDhsSpvgtAQFqbAP+IUYnZyy3hDnaOigqblQ589XcwneW566n Q9oOvbE9Hb4ErATMB9qNM4pYCZHSTQ76vz089Hzb4+BWHEDTlcppWReTZfZ1M42A hCAqTGYRBMEGBS0VzetnEB0/H2ou+mNp9cl/PyU133g0lJ06OejN+CkOJbuRiJOm Vcs0Bg3gN78= =N5Ze -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From duncan at sodatrain.com Thu Jun 21 11:11:03 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] webmail systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Im looking to host a webmail system on a domain that I host. I would like to have the ability for users to self-register via the web, and then log in and have a functional email acct. (ala hotmail and the million other webmail services.) I have see CommunigatePro from Stalker Software at stalker.com which is very functional, but commercial. I have looked at everything that comes up on freshmeat and sourceforge that comes up with query "webmail". The only thing that results is a string of products from inter7 which looks pretty good. http://inter7.com/freesoftware/index.html Has anyone else worked with anything that would do this? or have any suggestions. (other that just use anohter webbased service or use bigmailbox.com) thanks duncan -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 21 11:53:50 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? - how about a scotch meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Two questions: 1: Where's the Monte Carlo? 2: If I attend, will I be forced again to watch someone ruin a single malt scotch by putting ice in it? If yer nae gwin to do it right, leave the poor dram alone! Or off an bile yer heid! To answer question #2, yes, so I'm not going answer question #1 now. ;) ~j From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 21 11:53:51 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? - how about a scotch meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sure they can. Its a restaurant but would they want to? I'll send an annoucement in a sec. ~j -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Kochie Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:48 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: RE: [TCLUG] beermeeting? - how about a scotch meeting? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- oh boy... i take it this isn't a place where the under age people can just watch. Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > > > > > Grrr.. all slacking and no beermeeting makes Billy something > > something.. > > Go crazy? > > Bill's already crazy. With or with out the beermeeting. > > How about we have a Scotch meeting at the Monte Carlo this week and a beer > meeting next week? Thats two weeks in a row of drinking with your TCLUG > buddies. Wow! > > > ~j > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOzIlLstpDhsSpvgtAQFqbAP+IUYnZyy3hDnaOigqblQ589XcwneW566n Q9oOvbE9Hb4ErATMB9qNM4pYCZHSTQ76vz089Hzb4+BWHEDTlcppWReTZfZ1M42A hCAqTGYRBMEGBS0VzetnEB0/H2ou+mNp9cl/PyU133g0lJ06OejN+CkOJbuRiJOm Vcs0Bg3gN78= =N5Ze -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jun 21 12:13:07 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: Message-ID: <00e601c0fa75$71867a10$3028680a@tgt.com> > > 35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! I daresay that you mean that it is way under paid for YOU. You would not do it for $35000/year. Actually, that is $35000/180days ~ $50000/year on a 40 hour 52 week schedule. A teacher is free to pick up extra employment for the 12 weeks in the summer. Many people thrive on working with children and that is exactly why they became a teacher. Others simply like to teach. Everyone has their own reason to become a teacher (or not to become a teacher). However, with the occupation comes the exposure to children, that does not demand extra compensation. That is like saying that carpenter should be paid extra because of their exposure to wood (and thus the inevitable slivers). The compensation comes from the direct return of their work, which had better be my childs education. If the negatives about teaching outway the positives for you, don't become a teacher. Not everyone values things the same. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net > But it's > also the reason I DON'T gripe at spending 800/month to send my children to > a private school (through kindergarden) where the teachers are paid a > decent salary, treated with respect, and are given good solid benefits > with a comfortable environment. > > Liz > > -- > Imagination is intelligence having fun... > e-mail: kethry@winternet.com > URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Gary.Zieglmeier at unisys.com Thu Jun 21 12:16:54 2001 From: Gary.Zieglmeier at unisys.com (Zieglmeier, Gary J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with mail list subscriptions Message-ID: <236F133B43F4D211A4B00090273C79DC05836E5F@us-rv-exch-2.rsvl.unisys.com> tclug Please change my subscription from general mail list to announcements only. I only get into this email a couple times per week and the general list is toooooo much mail to keep up with. I tried to get in and make the change myself, but not sure of the proper procedure. I tried tclug-list subscribers but it kept giving me and error as if I enter the email address wrong. Sorry for the inconvenience zigy5cs@cs.com From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 21 12:14:14 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer, er, scotch meeting tonight! Message-ID: Ok sorry about the last minute thing. Looks for the "normal" beermeeting to be next week. Tonight, June 21st, we're going to meet at the Monte Carlo in the Mpls Warehouse district. They have an awesome selection of liquor, namely Single Malt Scotches, Bourbons, Whiskies, Brandies, Cognacs, Grappa..you name it. They have some beer too. We'll be in the main dining area. 6 - 8pm. They have free valet parking. There is some constrution on Washington Ave, it is closed between 3rd Ave N and 5th Ave N, fyi. Here's the info: 219 N 2nd St (the entrance and parking are on 3rd Ave N) Minneapolis, MN 55401 http://twincities.citysearch.com/profile/5571399/ Hope to see you there! ~j From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 21 12:31:50 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT,SorryIcouldn'thelp it Message-ID: I do and my wife is a teacher. >>> mend0070@tc.umn.edu 06/21/01 11:46AM >>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> > >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! > > And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? You don't have kids, do you? How much would a year would we have to pay *you* to do it full-time? :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Jun 21 12:36:12 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it References: Message-ID: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> > > >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! > > > > And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? > > You don't have kids, do you? How much would a year would we have to pay > *you* to do it full-time? :) > We can play some numbers games: Let's say a teacher has 24 students, and lets say the average funding per child is $11,000. per student per year ($11,000 is what it was two years ago in Mpls. I don't know what it is today but I think I'm safe in betting it isn't less). So, each teacher generates about 24*$11,000 or $264,000 (from the bash command line you can get that by typing expr 24 '*' 11000, to give some linux relevancy here). Let's give the teacher $60,000 for 180 days work (If I had that wage rate I would be making $80,000 for my 240 days work). Figure about 20% overhead for sick leave, insurance, etc..., so the teacher costs about $72,000. That leaves $192,000.00 per classroom for overhead (and it is overhead - we are paying to have our kids taught). It seems pretty apparent we could afford to pay our teachers high salaries at the current funding levels. We could pay reasonable salaries at a significanly lower funding level. I think Liz said she was paying $800 / month for her child to go to a private school. This works out to about $7200/year. This is a lot less than our public schools spend per student. Oh well. Maybe the taxpayers should hire the teacher unions public relations person... From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 12:36:52 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <00e601c0fa75$71867a10$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010621123652.T1470@ringworld.org> * Thomas T. Veldhouse [010621 12:19]: > I daresay that you mean that it is way under paid for YOU. You would not do > it for $35000/year. Actually, that is $35000/180days ~ $50000/year on a 40 > hour 52 week schedule. A teacher is free to pick up extra employment for > the 12 weeks in the summer. Ok, you work 'overtime' days for a school year and then tell me you dont want to take those 12 weeks off to recharge from going apeshit insane? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/2a72d162/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 12:40:35 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting using an AT power supply without a mobo. In-Reply-To: <993140938.3b3220cab069a@dragon> References: <20010621104049.546fd653.blayer@qwest.net> <993140938.3b3220cab069a@dragon> Message-ID: <20010621124035.30449ae7.blayer@qwest.net> Sorry. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From jeffr at odeon.net Thu Jun 21 12:52:45 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] webmail systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've used squirrelmail as a webmail imap client. There are a bunch out there. Worldpilot (which is a zope product, development has slowed to a crawl and it's really not ready for production use). There are a coupls of other zope based webmail clients in the works. There's aeromail and it's derivatives, and TWIG is another good one. A google search for any of those should turn up something. I don't remember whether or not any of these webmail clients will let people sign up for their own accounts (it would likely depend on more than just what webmail client you're using). If I remember correctly, the inter7.com folks were pretty tied to qmail, which may or may not pose a problem, and I may be misremembering. Jeff On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, duncan wrote: > Im looking to host a webmail system on a domain that I host. > > I would like to have the ability for users to self-register via the web, > and then log in and have a functional email acct. (ala hotmail and the > million other webmail services.) > > I have see CommunigatePro from Stalker Software at stalker.com which is > very functional, but commercial. > > I have looked at everything that comes up on freshmeat and sourceforge > that comes up with query "webmail". The only thing that results is a > string of products from inter7 which looks pretty good. > > http://inter7.com/freesoftware/index.html > > Has anyone else worked with anything that would do this? or have any > suggestions. (other that just use anohter webbased service or use > bigmailbox.com) > > thanks > > duncan > > From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 21 12:48:09 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread Message-ID: Alrighty... Amused by the 'ghetto ghost' routine and using Tom's with netcat, I've decided to try it myself. Here at work we have 9 machines in our training lab running Bill's OS. Since every class involves different software, software gets installed, uninstalled, re-installed, work files get created, deleted, lost, etc and over the course of a month of training our machines are screaming for help. So, we want a solution for creating images of the drives so we can restore them in a matter of minutes. Since all the commercial software packages (Ghost being the biggy) require licensing, it doesn't make sense to purchase per-seat licenses for this small application. So, I opened my big mouth and "linux" came out. I'm thinking of putting together a server out of parts in the basement and adding a decent sized hard drive. I'd do something like install Bill's OS on a machine, then boot with Tom's and netcat the hard drive over to a file on the linux server. Then I want to burn that image to a bootable CD so our not-so-linux lovers can easily do it when I'm not around. My predicament is this: I've never used netcat. I've used DD for something like this, which grabs not only the data, but every sector on the drive so if I have a 4 GB drive with 500 MB used, I get a 4 GB file. Does netcat do the same thing? If it does, it's a problem. 4 GBs won't fit on any CDR. Any iodeas how I could do this nicely? _Brian From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jun 21 12:52:15 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it References: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <012701c0fa7a$e96d9180$3028680a@tgt.com> Assuming your numbers below are correct (and I believe them to be quite inflated), we should not necessarily be paying our teachers more because of the amount we are putting out, we should find out where the hell all that money is going. When we know that and take care of the buracratic financial drain, we can then decide whether we should now increase salary, leave it the same, decrease it or what not. We don't pay the teacher, we pay the taxes, which pays the government which pays the hog that is the school buracracy and they decide what to pay the teachers. If they take 95% off the top and the teachers are still paid adequately, the problem is not the teachers pay, it is what the 95% is being used for. We need to look at the entire picture and fix the system, teachers are but a fraction of the cost. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net > We can play some numbers games: Let's say a teacher has 24 students, and lets > say the average funding per child is $11,000. per student per year ($11,000 is what > it was two years ago in Mpls. I don't know what it is today but I think I'm safe in > betting it isn't less). > > So, each teacher generates about 24*$11,000 or $264,000 (from the bash command line > you can get that by typing expr 24 '*' 11000, to give some linux relevancy here). > Let's give the teacher $60,000 for 180 days work (If I had that wage rate I would > be making $80,000 for my 240 days work). Figure about 20% overhead for sick leave, > insurance, etc..., so the teacher costs about $72,000. That leaves $192,000.00 > per classroom for overhead (and it is overhead - we are paying to have our kids > taught). > > It seems pretty apparent we could afford to pay our teachers high salaries > at the current funding levels. We could pay reasonable salaries at a significanly > lower funding level. > > I think Liz said she was paying $800 / month for her child to go to a private school. > This works out to about $7200/year. This is a lot less than our public schools spend > per student. > > Oh well. Maybe the taxpayers should hire the teacher unions public relations person... > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jun 21 12:58:42 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <20010621123652.T1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <013b01c0fa7b$cfbceb40$3028680a@tgt.com> OK -- I don't want to take that time off :) Actually, most don't work extensive overtime, check it out sometime. On some days I go to my daughters [elementary] school at 7AM (this is a weekly occurance) and I often pick her up by 4PM. It is rare to see hardly ANY administrative staff OR teachers there at either of these times. So, assuming a 30 minute lunch break (and I bet many are longer than that) the majority of these teachers are putting in no more than a 8.5 hour day. I can do that in my sleep. Ironically, I will see the "engineers" there working long hours, and many of them drive buses as well. If anything, increase their pay and lower the teachers pay, all else being equal. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Dier" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it * Thomas T. Veldhouse [010621 12:19]: > I daresay that you mean that it is way under paid for YOU. You would not do > it for $35000/year. Actually, that is $35000/180days ~ $50000/year on a 40 > hour 52 week schedule. A teacher is free to pick up extra employment for > the 12 weeks in the summer. Ok, you work 'overtime' days for a school year and then tell me you dont want to take those 12 weeks off to recharge from going apeshit insane? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jun 21 13:02:40 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: ; from jacque@fruitioninc.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 10:27:09AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010621130240.B3735@real-time.com> Twin Cities Systems Administrators is having a meeting tonight. the speaker canceled out, so we may adjourn to the bar (Stub & Herb's) earlier than usual. www.tcsa.org Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 13:10:30 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it In-Reply-To: <013b01c0fa7b$cfbceb40$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010621131030.U1470@ringworld.org> * Thomas T. Veldhouse [010621 13:04]: > some days I go to my daughters [elementary] school at 7AM (this is a weekly > occurance) and I often pick her up by 4PM. It is rare to see hardly ANY Oh, you think you need to be at school to grade papers? hah hah hah. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/0ccd9906/attachment.pgp From umchaffie at messagelabs.com Thu Jun 21 13:20:29 2001 From: umchaffie at messagelabs.com (Uriah Mchaffie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it Message-ID: <6A576315A2902249A2AA5675E0B7120302318F65@mlabs004.messagelabs.com> I would like to clear a few things up. My wife is very involved with the school and for the last few months has been going over budget issues. 1) Private school parents usually pay extra for sports and such. The public school where we live (Buffalo) pays 600,000 per year just for the football team. 2) Buffalo school district recieves 5,500 dollars per student per year. 3) The average electrical bill for 100,000 square foot of building space can be close to 15,000 for a normal year. 4) Add in teaching supplies, bus service (yes the schools pay for that) lunch room workers, admin staff, etc and you can see where alot of the money goes. I am 100% republican and do not believe in higher taxes. So to put my money where my mouth is---our community is currently raising privet funds (to the tune of 100,000 dollars) to keep a couple of our teachers. I say this-- if you think the teachers need more money - fine that is ok. Do not force other people to abid by your expectations. Take care of you and yours. Step up to the plate and do what you can, and practice what you believe. Its to easy to whine about something and then not do anything about it. This is our country and the power is in your hands, it just might not be the easy way you want. Summary--if you think something is broken-- dont just stand around bi*&$ing about it- do what you can to fix it. Remember-just cause you believe it doesn't make it true And just because you don't believe it doesn't makt it false Uriah -----Original Message----- From: Kent Schumacher [mailto:kent@structural-wood.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:36 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> > > >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! > > > > And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? > > You don't have kids, do you? How much would a year would we have to pay > *you* to do it full-time? :) > We can play some numbers games: Let's say a teacher has 24 students, and lets say the average funding per child is $11,000. per student per year ($11,000 is what it was two years ago in Mpls. I don't know what it is today but I think I'm safe in betting it isn't less). So, each teacher generates about 24*$11,000 or $264,000 (from the bash command line you can get that by typing expr 24 '*' 11000, to give some linux relevancy here). Let's give the teacher $60,000 for 180 days work (If I had that wage rate I would be making $80,000 for my 240 days work). Figure about 20% overhead for sick leave, insurance, etc..., so the teacher costs about $72,000. That leaves $192,000.00 per classroom for overhead (and it is overhead - we are paying to have our kids taught). It seems pretty apparent we could afford to pay our teachers high salaries at the current funding levels. We could pay reasonable salaries at a significanly lower funding level. I think Liz said she was paying $800 / month for her child to go to a private school. This works out to about $7200/year. This is a lot less than our public schools spend per student. Oh well. Maybe the taxpayers should hire the teacher unions public relations person... _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 13:31:43 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting using an ATpower supply without a mobo. In-Reply-To: <20010621124035.30449ae7.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > Sorry. ROFL, Bill! That about sums it up. Has Linux gotten that stable that we have nothing to talk about? :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From kbongers at mninter.net Thu Jun 21 01:19:03 2001 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it References: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> <012701c0fa7a$e96d9180$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B3191D7.9080005@mninter.net> I like the idea to compare public ed cost with private ed cost. That would seem to offer a reasonable analysis. Or does it? Any holes in this logic? Aren't churches involved a lot of times with private ed? Do major funds for private ed come in via any back door(not accounted for by pay)? Do we know what the typical cost is for private ed? Where is Spock from star trek, he could analyze this in micro-seconds, does he subscribe to this list? Karl. Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Assuming your numbers below are correct (and I believe them to be quite > inflated), we should not necessarily be paying our teachers more because of > the amount we are putting out, we should find out where the hell all that > money is going. When we know that and take care of the buracratic financial > drain, we can then decide whether we should now increase salary, leave it > the same, decrease it or what not. We don't pay the teacher, we pay the > taxes, which pays the government which pays the hog that is the school > buracracy and they decide what to pay the teachers. If they take 95% off > the top and the teachers are still paid adequately, the problem is not the > teachers pay, it is what the 95% is being used for. We need to look at the > entire picture and fix the system, teachers are but a fraction of the cost. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > >>We can play some numbers games: Let's say a teacher has 24 students, and >> > lets > >>say the average funding per child is $11,000. per student per year >> > ($11,000 is what > >>it was two years ago in Mpls. I don't know what it is today but I think >> > I'm safe in > >>betting it isn't less). >> >>So, each teacher generates about 24*$11,000 or $264,000 (from the bash >> > command line > >>you can get that by typing expr 24 '*' 11000, to give some linux relevancy >> > here). > >>Let's give the teacher $60,000 for 180 days work (If I had that wage rate >> > I would > >>be making $80,000 for my 240 days work). Figure about 20% overhead for >> > sick leave, > >>insurance, etc..., so the teacher costs about $72,000. That leaves >> > $192,000.00 > >>per classroom for overhead (and it is overhead - we are paying to have our >> > kids > >>taught). >> >>It seems pretty apparent we could afford to pay our teachers high salaries >>at the current funding levels. We could pay reasonable salaries at a >> > significanly > >>lower funding level. >> >>I think Liz said she was paying $800 / month for her child to go to a >> > private school. > >>This works out to about $7200/year. This is a lot less than our public >> > schools spend > >>per student. >> >>Oh well. Maybe the taxpayers should hire the teacher unions public >> > relations person... > >>_______________________________________________ >>tclug-list mailing list >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Thu Jun 21 13:34:54 2001 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: webmail systems Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A593F58A@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Here is a link I found to a whole listing of webmail programs and info about each. I haven't looked into any of them too far, so can't tell if one fits your needs or not. http://www.cru.fr/http-mail/ From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jun 21 13:42:16 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it References: <20010621131030.U1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <019501c0fa81$e57020f0$3028680a@tgt.com> I didn't say that. Read my other posts and you will see what I am talking about. I am quite sure that most teachers don't spend a huge amount of off time at home grading papers, especially at the elementary school level. That is not to say they don't spend some off time doing it, but they certainly don't spend a huge amount of time, on average. I often take my work home too. I have to constantly stay sharp on leading to bleading edge technology so that I can remain a player in my field. It is my field of choice and I do not hold it against my employer or make them pay me more to do so. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Dier" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, Sorry I couldn't help it * Thomas T. Veldhouse [010621 13:04]: > some days I go to my daughters [elementary] school at 7AM (this is a weekly > occurance) and I often pick her up by 4PM. It is rare to see hardly ANY Oh, you think you need to be at school to grade papers? hah hah hah. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jun 21 13:45:23 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting using an ATpower supply without a mobo. References: Message-ID: <01a301c0fa82$5a15e250$3028680a@tgt.com> It is not Linux that is unstable, it is all the uncorrdinated packages and the multitude of versions of the same damn C-Library. Fact is that most machines went down and they are unable to talk about Linux, while the rest of us here are using BSD (with a Windows email client ;0 ) :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting using an ATpower supply without a mobo. > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > > > Sorry. > > ROFL, Bill! That about sums it up. Has Linux gotten that stable that we > have nothing to talk about? :) > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 21 13:46:00 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting usingan ATpower supply without a mobo. Message-ID: >>> mend0070@tc.umn.edu 06/21/01 01:31PM >>> >>>>On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: >> Sorry. >ROFL, Bill! That about sums it up. Has Linux gotten that stable that we >have nothing to talk about? :) Indeed! :-) From patrick at hamletmachine.com Thu Jun 21 13:44:09 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting using an ATpower supply without a mobo. References: Message-ID: <00ae01c0fa82$28fe2290$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 13:31 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Kids and linux at the scotch or beermeeting using an ATpower supply without a mobo. > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > > > Sorry. > > ROFL, Bill! That about sums it up. Has Linux gotten that stable that we > have nothing to talk about? :) Even if it is, we still have gadgets to discuss. Don't we? From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 21 13:48:21 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread Message-ID: Boot Tom's and do something like: mkdir /temp mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /temp cat /dev/zero > /temp/tempfile ***Error message*** cat: output error, no space left on device. rm /temp/tempfile umount /temp dd /dev/hda1 - | gzip - | ncat ip.address.of.server or something similar. The options to the utilities above are 'guesstimates' for lack of a local Linux box and human memory. Troy >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 06/21/01 12:48PM >>> Alrighty... Amused by the 'ghetto ghost' routine and using Tom's with netcat, I've decided to try it myself. Here at work we have 9 machines in our training lab running Bill's OS. Since every class involves different software, software gets installed, uninstalled, re-installed, work files get created, deleted, lost, etc and over the course of a month of training our machines are screaming for help. So, we want a solution for creating images of the drives so we can restore them in a matter of minutes. Since all the commercial software packages (Ghost being the biggy) require licensing, it doesn't make sense to purchase per-seat licenses for this small application. So, I opened my big mouth and "linux" came out. I'm thinking of putting together a server out of parts in the basement and adding a decent sized hard drive. I'd do something like install Bill's OS on a machine, then boot with Tom's and netcat the hard drive over to a file on the linux server. Then I want to burn that image to a bootable CD so our not-so-linux lovers can easily do it when I'm not around. My predicament is this: I've never used netcat. I've used DD for something like this, which grabs not only the data, but every sector on the drive so if I have a 4 GB drive with 500 MB used, I get a 4 GB file. Does netcat do the same thing? If it does, it's a problem. 4 GBs won't fit on any CDR. Any iodeas how I could do this nicely? _Brian _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 21 13:51:33 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: <3B3191D7.9080005@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Karl Bongers wrote: > I like the idea to compare public ed cost with private ed cost. > That would seem to offer a reasonable analysis. Or does it? > Any holes in this logic? Aren't churches involved a lot of times > with private ed? Do major funds for private ed come in via > any back door(not accounted for by pay)? Do we know what the > typical cost is for private ed? Where is Spock from star trek, > he could analyze this in micro-seconds, does he subscribe to this > list? My parents had me in a private christian high school, cost of tuition was about $11k/yr (could be 2-3k off there, don't really remember); the school's budget was written so that tuition covered 1/2 of the total costs, and fundraising, etc covered the rest. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From ssinn at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 13:51:35 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) References: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com> Message-ID: <3B324237.9F4110FE@qwest.net> Heather Wagamon wrote: > > Actually, I'm not having a server "problem" exactly. I went to school with > Jamie and just wanted to get a hold of him so I could get his advice on > something since he's helped me out a lot in the past. I just graduated > recently from college and am now working as a linux/unix system admin. I > don't have much experience with Linux or Unix and have been learning a lot > of it as problems arise. So... I've been thinking that I want to set up a > personal Linux web/email server at home so I can learn linux easier and > become more comfortable with it. I was wondering... what's the best > linux/unix to use? I was thinking "Red Hat" since that's what we use here. > I have a friend who also wants to set up a server. We were thinking we > could get a DSL line and a hub and connect them both up through the same > DSL line. One of the things I'm not sure about, though, are the IP > addresses. Since we'll have 2 servers on one DSL line, we'll need to buy > IP Addresses? Are they expensive? We don't want to spend a whole lot > right now just to learn networking. I guess the point of it all is... does > anyone have any advice for a Linux Newbie who wants to set up a web/email > server in her living room? > > :-) > Thanks!! > > Heather > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I use qwests DSL service and have not had any problems running several machines on the line. If you are going to use an internal network, get the external modem (well, its really a router, but qwest calls it a modem. It is the Cisco 675 or the 678 IIRC). You will get assigned a dynamic IP, but it only changes if you turn off the router (or qwest flushes the DSL pools). It is very easy to use NAT to run services out. The only downside is there is no DNS for it; a person wanting to access the webpage or mailserver would have to use the IP address. Other DSL providers offer static IP addresses, but I don't know anything about those. Someone else on the list will. From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Jun 21 14:08:16 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it References: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> <012701c0fa7a$e96d9180$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B324620.F7F7746A@structural-wood.com> I agree with you in every particular, even to the point that my numbers were inflated (although not in the way I expected). Class sizes are significantly lower than 24, and cost per student is significantly higher than $11,000. From the Mpls web site: http://www.mpls.k12.mn.us/about/facts.shtml # of teachers : 4,658 Mpls school budget : $662,683,442 # of students : 48,991 Some derived numbers... 'Revenue' per teacher: $142,268 Cost per student : $13,527 Again, if you assume a teacher costs $72,000 / year (which is the equivalent of a full time worker making $80,000/year), that leaves $70,000 overhead per teacher. That seems a little high but not extremely so. If you assume a teacher makes $40,000 / year (a cost of $48,000), that means an overhead of $104,000 / teacher / year. I think I'm done. I wish I had the $13,000 / year to educate my son. "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > > Assuming your numbers below are correct (and I believe them to be quite > inflated), we should not necessarily be paying our teachers more because of > the amount we are putting out, we should find out where the hell all that > money is going. When we know that and take care of the buracratic financial > drain, we can then decide whether we should now increase salary, leave it > the same, decrease it or what not. We don't pay the teacher, we pay the > taxes, which pays the government which pays the hog that is the school > buracracy and they decide what to pay the teachers. If they take 95% off > the top and the teachers are still paid adequately, the problem is not the > teachers pay, it is what the 95% is being used for. We need to look at the > entire picture and fix the system, teachers are but a fraction of the cost. > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 21 14:37:17 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Boot Tom's and do something like: > > mkdir /temp > mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /temp > cat /dev/zero > /temp/tempfile > ***Error message*** cat: output error, no space left on device. > rm /temp/tempfile > umount /temp > dd /dev/hda1 - | gzip - | ncat ip.address.of.server > > or something similar. Now THAT'S a neat trick! another question. I'm all for gzip'ing my dd image but in gunzip'ing... if I have a compressed image on a CD and I dd - /dev/hda |gunzip imagefile does it need temp space to unzip? or is stdin pure magic and I don't have to worry about it? -Brian From spencer at sihope.com Thu Jun 21 02:38:29 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw Message-ID: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> I have RH 7.1 on a box. I installed it without a nic. After installing the nic and configuring the network everything is peachy. When I reboot (rarely) ifconfig forgets about the default gw. It is a quick command to tell it whats up, but needless. I know there must be an init file I need to update, I just have yet to find the correct one. Can I get one clue? -- Spencer Underground deltree c:\windows /y From patrick at hamletmachine.com Thu Jun 21 15:10:15 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw References: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <003301c0fa8e$309b0660$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "AAAunderground" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 02:38 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw > I have RH 7.1 on a box. I installed it without a nic. After installing the > nic and configuring the network everything is peachy. When I reboot (rarely) > ifconfig forgets about the default gw. It is a quick command to tell it whats > up, but needless. I know there must be an init file I need to update, I just > have yet to find the correct one. Can I get one clue? If memory serves... /etc/sysconfig/network/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 should contain lines like: IPADDR=192.168.100.100 NETMASK=255.255.255.0 etc. You can add a GATEWAY=192.168.100.1 From florin at iucha.net Thu Jun 21 15:14:14 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 02:37:17PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010621151414.B18527@beaver.iucha.org> On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 02:37:17PM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > Boot Tom's and do something like: > > > > mkdir /temp > > mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /temp > > cat /dev/zero > /temp/tempfile > > ***Error message*** cat: output error, no space left on device. > > rm /temp/tempfile > > umount /temp > > dd /dev/hda1 - | gzip - | ncat ip.address.of.server that's dd if=/dev/hda | gzip | ncat ... > > > > or something similar. > > Now THAT'S a neat trick! > > another question. I'm all for gzip'ing my dd image but in > gunzip'ing... if I have a compressed image on a CD and I > dd - /dev/hda |gunzip imagefile does it need temp space to unzip? or is > stdin pure magic and I don't have to worry about it? ncat ... | gunzip | dd of=/dev/... It's pure pipe magic... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 21 15:18:59 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw In-Reply-To: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> References: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <993154739.3b3256b3b6611@dragon> Hi, Quoting AAAunderground : > up, but needless. I know there must be an init file I need to update, I > just have yet to find the correct one. Can I get one clue? This is from memory - look in /etc/sysconfig, there should be a file called network which should have a GATEWAY entry. I think. -Yaron -- From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 15:20:19 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw Message-ID: <010621152019.20365e2d@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi /etc/sysconfig You only asked for 1 clue!!! Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jun 21 15:20:24 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw In-Reply-To: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv>; from spencer@sihope.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 02:38:29AM -0500 References: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20010621152024.A887@minime.sistina.com> On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 02:38:29AM -0500, AAAunderground wrote: >I have RH 7.1 on a box. I installed it without a nic. After installing the >nic and configuring the network everything is peachy. When I reboot (rarely) >ifconfig forgets about the default gw. It is a quick command to tell it whats >up, but needless. I know there must be an init file I need to update, I just >have yet to find the correct one. Can I get one clue? /etc/sysconfig/network probably. > >-- >Spencer Underground >deltree c:\windows /y >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/b680a597/attachment.pgp From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu Jun 21 15:28:43 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw References: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <3B3258CA.35164CAB@eetc.com> All your network scripts are in /etc/sysconfig/* The one you need to edit is the "network" file. This is roughly what you need to insert into the file somewhere. NETWORKING=yes GATEWAYDEV=ethx GATEWAY=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx FORWARD_IPV4=no HOSTNAME=(YourHostName) That should do it. AAAunderground wrote: > I have RH 7.1 on a box. I installed it without a nic. After installing the > nic and configuring the network everything is peachy. When I reboot (rarely) > ifconfig forgets about the default gw. It is a quick command to tell it whats > up, but needless. I know there must be an init file I need to update, I just > have yet to find the correct one. Can I get one clue? HTH, sim From patrick at hamletmachine.com Thu Jun 21 16:00:54 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw References: <01062102382905.01171@red.autonomous.tv> <3B3258CA.35164CAB@eetc.com> Message-ID: <004e01c0fa95$43c21d80$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simeon Johnston" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 15:28 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] default gw > All your network scripts are in /etc/sysconfig/* > The one you need to edit is the "network" file. > This is roughly what you need to insert into the file somewhere. > > NETWORKING=yes > GATEWAYDEV=ethx > GATEWAY=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx > FORWARD_IPV4=no > HOSTNAME=(YourHostName) > > That should do it. Right - the gateway dev is set in /etc/sysconfig/network in RH. Not in the ifcfg-ethN file. I guess memory didn't serve. From duncan at sodatrain.com Thu Jun 21 15:21:40 2001 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: <004e01c0fa95$43c21d80$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> Message-ID: I asked this of the LUG a few months back,and I appologize for asking again... Im moving to Minnesota the first of July, and have been trying to track down some Unix Admin jobs, and am having a bit of a difficult time doing so. Is anyone on the list hiring, or does anyone know of places that are hiring, or as a last resort, can any one suggest any tech companies in the area that _may_ be hiring? Its not looking goot at this point, so any suggestions would be appreciated. For thoes really interested, my resume is at http://sodatrain.com/duncan/ Thanks a bunch- duncan -- || || || || || || duncan shannon duncan@sodatrain.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 16:11:12 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw In-Reply-To: <004e01c0fa95$43c21d80$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> Message-ID: I never remember all the variations of pesky /etc files, but if you know what you're looking for in them, rgrep (or grep -r?) is your friend. On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Patrick Knoll wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Simeon Johnston" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 15:28 > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] default gw > > > > All your network scripts are in /etc/sysconfig/* > > The one you need to edit is the "network" file. > > This is roughly what you need to insert into the file somewhere. > > > > NETWORKING=yes > > GATEWAYDEV=ethx > > GATEWAY=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx > > FORWARD_IPV4=no > > HOSTNAME=(YourHostName) > > > > That should do it. > > Right - the gateway dev is set in /etc/sysconfig/network in RH. Not in the > ifcfg-ethN file. I guess memory didn't serve. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 21 16:32:28 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. Message-ID: Duncan, Have you tried the tclug-jobs list? https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-jobs There may be more people on that list who could help you out. I do apologize, but even if there were a position in my department available, I might looking on that list come July 1. :-( Troy From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 16:37:16 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) In-Reply-To: <3B324237.9F4110FE@qwest.net> References: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com> <3B324237.9F4110FE@qwest.net> Message-ID: "Spencer J Sinn" writes: > I use qwests DSL service and have not had any problems running several > machines on the line. Ditto. > If you are going to use an internal network, get the external modem > (well, its really a router, but qwest calls it a modem. It is the > Cisco 675 or the 678 IIRC). You will get assigned a dynamic IP, but > it only changes if you turn off the router (or qwest flushes the DSL > pools). My experience before I got the static IPs in (so back in 1999) was that the IP changed at least once a day. > It is very easy to use NAT to run services out. The only downside is > there is no DNS for it; a person wanting to access the webpage or > mailserver would have to use the IP address. Other DSL providers > offer static IP addresses, but I don't know anything about > those. Someone else on the list will. USWest leases me "8" static IPs, but they get $15/month for it (ick). There are dynamic DNS providers who let you have DNS names pointing to dynamic IPs. I haven't needed it, so I don't know how they do it (do you run a local utility that keeps them updated on the current IP, I'd guess?) And of course there's the question of whether the agreement allows you to run services. Mine does, but I'm 768K DSL under their SOHO division, not personal. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 16:38:22 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phil Mendelsohn writes: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > >>> kethry@Winternet.com 06/21/01 11:15AM >>> > > >35,000/year to teach our children is definitely way under paid! > > > > And what would be a decent wage for this vocation? > > You don't have kids, do you? How much would a year would we have to pay > *you* to do it full-time? :) A lot. But trust me, you don't want me in the classroom teaching grade-school. On the other hand I know people who are reasonably happy earning less than that working with *pre-school* children, which is IMHO even worse (that is, less to my taste). -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 16:40:59 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> References: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: Kent Schumacher writes: > I think Liz said she was paying $800 / month for her child to go to a private school. > This works out to about $7200/year. This is a lot less than our public schools spend > per student. I don't know the details of the school Liz sends her kids to, but lots of private schools lose money on the full tuition rate. Either explicitly, and they look for grants and gifts (the up-scale secular ones), or implicitly, by using some underpaid or volunteer teachers (most of the religious ones). -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 16:45:46 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: <3B324620.F7F7746A@structural-wood.com> References: <3B32308C.46B3E474@structural-wood.com> <012701c0fa7a$e96d9180$3028680a@tgt.com> <3B324620.F7F7746A@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: Kent Schumacher writes: > I agree with you in every particular, even to the point that my > numbers were inflated (although not in the way I expected). > > Class sizes are significantly lower than 24, and cost per student > is significantly higher than $11,000. From the Mpls web site: > > http://www.mpls.k12.mn.us/about/facts.shtml > > # of teachers : 4,658 > Mpls school budget : $662,683,442 > # of students : 48,991 > > Some derived numbers... > > 'Revenue' per teacher: $142,268 > Cost per student : $13,527 > > Again, if you assume a teacher costs $72,000 / year (which > is the equivalent of a full time worker making $80,000/year), > that leaves $70,000 overhead per teacher. That seems a little > high but not extremely so. It does, when compared to industry. The overhead is different in running public schools. The money you're looking at includes the cost of the football team, and the school nurse, and guidance counselors, and probably the cost of the lunch program. It also covers the cost of special-needs students. It seems entirely reasonable that the overhead (not all of that is really "overhead", but it's money not going to the teachers) would be *a lot* higher than in a software company, say. Another thing on another aspect of the issue that nobody mentioned; how many credit-hours of continuing education a year do the teachers need to retain their certification? What does that cost them, and how many classroom hours and home-work hours do they have to spend doing it? I don't think it eats the whole summer, but I'll bet it cuts into it. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jun 21 16:47:42 2001 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] webmail systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: duncan writes: > Im looking to host a webmail system on a domain that I host. > > I would like to have the ability for users to self-register via the web, > and then log in and have a functional email acct. (ala hotmail and the > million other webmail services.) > > I have see CommunigatePro from Stalker Software at stalker.com which is > very functional, but commercial. > > I have looked at everything that comes up on freshmeat and sourceforge > that comes up with query "webmail". The only thing that results is a > string of products from inter7 which looks pretty good. > > http://inter7.com/freesoftware/index.html > > Has anyone else worked with anything that would do this? or have any > suggestions. (other that just use anohter webbased service or use > bigmailbox.com) I'm using vmailmgr and omail on top of qmail. The inter7 stuff is very good (also for qmail), but didn't quite meet my needs because I have some historical issues with mail setup that I didn't want to disturb if I didn't have to. -- David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 21 17:18:32 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] webmail systems In-Reply-To: ; from duncan@sodatrain.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 12:11:03PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010621171832.O4689@real-time.com> Quoting duncan (duncan@sodatrain.com): > Im looking to host a webmail system on a domain that I host. > > I would like to have the ability for users to self-register via the web, > and then log in and have a functional email acct. (ala hotmail and the > million other webmail services.) > Setup PAM to sent auth requests to LDAP. A very simple hack to IMP and you can put accounts into LDAP and viola, you got hotmail. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 21 17:24:56 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] webmail systems In-Reply-To: <20010621171832.O4689@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > Setup PAM to sent auth requests to LDAP. > > A very simple hack to IMP and you can put accounts into LDAP and viola, you got > hotmail. ...except for a way to sign yourself up for a free account. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jun 21 12:14:14 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer, er, scotch meeting tonight! Message-ID: Ok sorry about the last minute thing. Looks for the "normal" beermeeting to be next week. Tonight, June 21st, we're going to meet at the Monte Carlo in the Mpls Warehouse district. They have an awesome selection of liquor, namely Single Malt Scotches, Bourbons, Whiskies, Brandies, Cognacs, Grappa..you name it. They have some beer too. We'll be in the main dining area. 6 - 8pm. They have free valet parking. There is some constrution on Washington Ave, it is closed between 3rd Ave N and 5th Ave N, fyi. Here's the info: 219 N 2nd St (the entrance and parking are on 3rd Ave N) Minneapolis, MN 55401 http://twincities.citysearch.com/profile/5571399/ Hope to see you there! ~j _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From spencer at sihope.com Thu Jun 21 05:26:41 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] default gw In-Reply-To: <010621152019.20365e2d@dcmir.med.umn.edu> References: <010621152019.20365e2d@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: <01062105264100.01017@red.autonomous.tv> On Thursday 21 June 2001 03:20 pm, you wrote: > Hi > > /etc/sysconfig > > You only asked for 1 clue!!! > Thanks. Simple problem, simple solution. The further solution is to not use the gui admin tools. I now remember after I first installed the nic it was giving me problems and I was trying everything. I just forgot I told it the gateway device was an address instead of an eth0. Doh! The things people do. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 17:47:13 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010621174713.Z1470@ringworld.org> * duncan [010621 16:11]: > For thoes really interested, my resume is at http://sodatrain.com/duncan/ Ooo. your in boston. I'll be out there next week for usenix, you going per chance? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/6c44d18a/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 17:57:17 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010621175717.A1470@ringworld.org> * duncan [010621 16:11]: > down some Unix Admin jobs, and am having a bit of a difficult time doing > so. Is anyone on the list hiring, or does anyone know of places that are On this note, the U hires Unix people from time to time. I bet money that we are probally one of the largest places for doing unix desktop support in the area. But I dont see anything too amazing at the moment. Check: http://www1.umn.edu/ohr/jobs/jobsF5.html Veritas, seagate, and sgi have offices local. But I went to sgi's page and didn't see Eagan in there. Hrm Must be no jobs right now. Seagate doesn't seem to have anything either... Veritas' web site wouldn't load for me :| Luthern Brotherhood is where my dad works, but it doesn't seem like they have any sysadmin jobs really right now at all. Heck, I dont even think they have much unix anyhow. Probally some huge AIX boxes or something else scary. There is VB/C++ programmer jobs (yick!) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/390399ca/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 18:00:24 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010621180024.B1470@ringworld.org> > need to retain their certification? What does that cost them, and how > many classroom hours and home-work hours do they have to spend doing Or, what continuing ed do they need to keep moving up the pay scale. Some raises dont happen if you dont go back and get a masters, if I remember right from one of my hs teachers who I saw again the first year I was at the U. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/39215ec1/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 18:21:01 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) In-Reply-To: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com> References: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com> Message-ID: <20010621182101.36add65d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Heather Wagamon wrote: > > I've been thinking that I want to set up a personal Linux web/email > server at home so I can learn linux easier and become more comfortable > with it. I was wondering... what's the best linux/unix to use? I was > thinking "Red Hat" since that's what we use here. Well, I'll just suggest that you make sure you're running a new distribution. The Honeynet Project discovered that, on average, it takes about 72 hours for a default-install RedHat 6.2 box to get broken into. Of course, I understand that stock Win98 with file sharing enabled is pretty much just as bad.. If this doesn't show the great importance security (and not leaving everything turned on after an initial install), I don't know what does.. http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0106.html -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ #define END.ARMS.CONTROL / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ /* Silo overflow */ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/fc07836e/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 21 19:15:44 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proprietary apps on Linux/Sparc Message-ID: <20010621191544.3c6b0e8a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Hello all, My boss and I have come to the conclusion that Linux has greatly outpaced Solaris as an operating system and operating environment, especially in terms of usability. We're really interested in getting Linux going on our UltraSparc systems. This isn't a huge installation, just four systems (though one of those is an Oracle server and will probably stay Solaris). Still, I've sent out some queries to our software vendors, requesting Linux/Sparc versions. All of them now have at least Linux/Intel software, and some have versions for Linux/PPC and Linux/Alpha. Hopefully, it'll be something easy for them to do, though I'd like to make a request... These are the products we use, and the companies I've contacted.. Product Company ------- ------- Gauss Aptech Mathematica Wolfram Matlab MathWorks SAS SAS Institute Stata Stata Corp. If any of you folks use those apps, and have been considering migrating to Linux/Sparc, please let me know (probably off-list, unless you also have something interesting to say to the group) or let the company know, or both. Basically, I don't want to be just the one guy that's asking for it ;-) Also, does anyone know of software for Linux for administrating Sun A1000 arrays? At minimum, I'd like to know of some decent logging software, so if a drive failed or was failing, we could reboot to Solaris to run their software.. I'm at a really weird crossroads at the moment. I've worked at the Carlson School of Management at the U for about a year, administrating Solaris and Linux systems. I finally got a WinNT 4 machine yesterday (up til then, I'd been using a P166 Linux box for my workstation), and I just went to my first (and quite possibly last) Solaris users meeting on campus today where I discovered Solaris 8 had amazing new features such as DHCP support and the ability to install via HTTP... -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ The bigger the theory the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ better. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/b635d091/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 20:45:57 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proprietary apps on Linux/Sparc In-Reply-To: <20010621191544.3c6b0e8a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010621204557.D1470@ringworld.org> > Gauss Aptech > Mathematica Wolfram > Matlab MathWorks > SAS SAS Institute > Stata Stata Corp. I know some of this software allready exists for Linux/x86. Matlab, Mathematica. Sas seems to be solaris only (yick.). Looks like sas was installed for only one machine anyhow. Probally just a single license. > today where I discovered Solaris 8 had amazing new features such as DHCP > support and the ability to install via HTTP... Yah, the solaris guy here in CS/ITLABS has been cooking up a Sol8 jumpstart for the 30 so sunblades for one of the labs. :) 24 in montors for em too. Pretty neat machines. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/de4ea292/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 21 20:47:03 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proprietary apps on Linux/Sparc In-Reply-To: <20010621191544.3c6b0e8a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010621204702.E1470@ringworld.org> * Mike Hicks [010621 19:16]: > My boss and I have come to the conclusion that Linux has greatly outpaced > Solaris as an operating system and operating environment, especially in Also, there are gnome 1.4 packages for solaris 8 :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010621/954af5de/attachment.pgp From ssinn at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 22:45:14 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it References: Message-ID: <3B32BF4A.F61FDDAB@qwest.net> Nate Carlson wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Karl Bongers wrote: > > I like the idea to compare public ed cost with private ed cost. > > That would seem to offer a reasonable analysis. Or does it? > > Any holes in this logic? Aren't churches involved a lot of times > > with private ed? Do major funds for private ed come in via > > any back door(not accounted for by pay)? Do we know what the > > typical cost is for private ed? Where is Spock from star trek, > > he could analyze this in micro-seconds, does he subscribe to this > > list? > > My parents had me in a private christian high school, cost of tuition was > about $11k/yr (could be 2-3k off there, don't really remember); the > school's budget was written so that tuition covered 1/2 of the total > costs, and fundraising, etc covered the rest. > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Boy I just meant that schools could save us all a few $$$ by using OSS. From ssinn at qwest.net Thu Jun 21 22:56:54 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) References: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com> <20010621182101.36add65d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B32C206.1E04DFBB@qwest.net> Mike Hicks wrote: > > Heather Wagamon wrote: > > > > I've been thinking that I want to set up a personal Linux web/email > > server at home so I can learn linux easier and become more comfortable > > with it. I was wondering... what's the best linux/unix to use? I was > > thinking "Red Hat" since that's what we use here. > > Well, I'll just suggest that you make sure you're running a new > distribution. The Honeynet Project discovered that, on average, it takes > about 72 hours for a default-install RedHat 6.2 box to get broken into. > Of course, I understand that stock Win98 with file sharing enabled is > pretty much just as bad.. > > If this doesn't show the great importance security (and not leaving > everything turned on after an initial install), I don't know what does.. > > http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0106.html > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ #define END.ARMS.CONTROL > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ /* Silo overflow */ > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature I know with my old box, SuSE, I had mapped Apache to the outside IP and never had a problem. But I mapped FTP and Telnet outside for an IP Masquerading project a friend of mine was working on for the U and had the Ramen worm trying to get in after about two hours!! Since then I have gone back to Slackware, mostly to get more under-the-hood experience ( YAST was good and bad because it DIFY). If you are just doing it as a learning project, I wouldn't even worry about routing it to the outside world. Create a bunch of phony accounts on your home network and tear into it. From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Fri Jun 22 05:27:40 2001 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (Steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it References: <3B32BF4A.F61FDDAB@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B331D9C.3070508@mn.rr.com> Nah, this was my doing. You mentioned it but I was the one who threw the big rock at the beehive. Funny thing is I expected the post to be ignored for the most part. (Many of mine are and rightly so.) Just for the record my point was that the school system is not underfunded, any comment I had about teachers was just an aside. I don't think they are overpaid or nearly as underpaid as the press likes to make them out to be. I think I'll crawl back into my dark cool little corner of the world and just lurk for a while, I seem to be much better at that. Once again I apologize for my off topic posting on what seems to be a hot button topic. SG, O.S.D. Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > Boy I just meant that schools could save us all a few $$$ by using OSS. > > lists :) > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Yadda, yadda, yadda From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 22 07:27:05 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) In-Reply-To: <3B32C206.1E04DFBB@qwest.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I've always preferred slackware for it's simplicity over all the bloatware and what-strange-app-am-I-supposed-to-edit-this-file-with-ware. I do hear that libc install has some race conditions and/or buffer overflows. Personally, I'd much rather run an OpenBSD box than a * Linux box if it needed to be secure. Obviously there is significant work involved with any machine on the internet but my experience is that putting and keeping a Open (or probably just *BSD) box is a lot less time and effort. With Linux I'm getting weekly e-mails about the latest buffer overflow/exploit of x commonly used program that's guaranteed to be on the machine. In general... keeping a Linux internet host just seems like too much work. That and when I've looked at texts on hardening Linux it involves reading a few ream size texts instead of the few pamphlet size text I had to to get my OBSD box up. I do have to beg off and say I haven't gone to any particular length to protect the box from local attackers but at least I know exactly what all the servers are doing. I guess my whole point is putting and maintaining a Linux inet box seems like a whole heck of lot more work that it should have to be. I'd suggest picking something less maintenance intensive. Josh __SIG__ On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Spencer J Sinn wrote: > Mike Hicks wrote: > > > > Heather Wagamon wrote: > > > > > > I've been thinking that I want to set up a personal Linux web/email > > > server at home so I can learn linux easier and become more comfortable > > > with it. I was wondering... what's the best linux/unix to use? I was > > > thinking "Red Hat" since that's what we use here. > > > > Well, I'll just suggest that you make sure you're running a new > > distribution. The Honeynet Project discovered that, on average, it takes > > about 72 hours for a default-install RedHat 6.2 box to get broken into. > > Of course, I understand that stock Win98 with file sharing enabled is > > pretty much just as bad.. > > > > If this doesn't show the great importance security (and not leaving > > everything turned on after an initial install), I don't know what does.. > > > > http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0106.html > > > > -- > > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ #define END.ARMS.CONTROL > > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ /* Silo overflow */ > > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature > > > I know with my old box, SuSE, I had mapped Apache to the outside IP and > never had > a problem. But I mapped FTP and Telnet outside for an IP Masquerading > project a > friend of mine was working on for the U and had the Ramen worm trying to > get in > after about two hours!! Since then I have gone back to Slackware, mostly > to get > more under-the-hood experience ( YAST was good and bad because it DIFY). > If you are > just doing it as a learning project, I wouldn't even worry about routing > it to the > outside world. Create a bunch of phony accounts on your home network and > tear into > it. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Fri Jun 22 07:36:00 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kernel signal to noise ratio... Message-ID: So is anyone else following lknl? I don't won't pretend to know what Microsoft intended by it's recent statements but they've certainly had the effect of turning lknl from 95% coding, 5% discussion to something like %30 coding, %70 percent discussion. Or at least that's what it looks like from trolling the subject lines. Mind you, it looks like a lot of the folks to actually do the work aren't in on the discussion too much so they're probably still working just fine and dandy. But cripes, there are something like three separate plain'ol discussion threads and heck if it doesn't seem to just crowd a whole bunch out. Hoping this doesn't happen *everything* MS says something about Linux || *GPL || (Free || Open) Source software, Josh __SIG__ From kethry at winternet.com Fri Jun 22 09:26:16 2001 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kids and linux (was mklinux) WARNING WAY OT, SorryIcouldn'thelp it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 21 Jun 2001, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Kent Schumacher writes: > > > I think Liz said she was paying $800 / month for her child to go to a private school. > > This works out to about $7200/year. This is a lot less than our public schools spend > > per student. > > I don't know the details of the school Liz sends her kids to, but lots > of private schools lose money on the full tuition rate. Either Exactly - tuition pays a considerable amount of money - the rest is paid for by fundraisers pretty much - and anytime something needs to be done for the school (ie., add wood chips to the playground), etc comes from fundraisers. It's a small school - less than 80 kids, but well worth it. While housed at a temple, it is specifically NOT religious in nature, which was one of the points that was important to us, and the kids genuinely look forward to going there every morning and look forward to seeing their teachers again in the fall. Pity it's only pre-K, K...I would have loved for Jennifer to have been Kethry's teacher through grade school. Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From kethry at winternet.com Fri Jun 22 09:28:21 2001 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: <20010621175717.A1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: > Luthern Brotherhood is where my dad works, but it doesn't seem like they > have any sysadmin jobs really right now at all. Heck, I dont even think > they have much unix anyhow. Probally some huge AIX boxes or something > else scary. There is VB/C++ programmer jobs (yick!) really? I know someone specifically looking for VB/C++ jobs. Please let me know where I can direct him. Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 22 10:00:40 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010622100040.I1470@ringworld.org> > really? I know someone specifically looking for VB/C++ jobs. Please let me > know where I can direct him. www.luthbro.com is their website. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/4bb70a04/attachment.pgp From jurupari at geocities.com Fri Jun 22 10:05:30 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. Message-ID: <200106221505.f5MF5o121801@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I am in the process of putting together a new system and was wondering what would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's requirements of course, and something that is quiet. Where would be a good place to purchase the item? Has anyone purchased a motherboard bundle from Multiwave? If so, were you happy with the fan they supplied? Also, was thinking of installing a removeable HDD kit so that I can avoid a dual boot system. Any suggestions? Feel free to respond off list if you wish. Thanks, Mike Glaser From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 22 10:45:54 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: <200106221505.f5MF5o121801@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: Authorized AMD resellers won't screw you on your heat-sink/fan/power supply. If they do, report them to AMD. (At least with Athlon/Duron systems) I saw someone at General Nano wanting to put their Duron in an el-cheapo case and he didn't get very far. They even asked my what I was putting in the el-cheapo case I bought. (only bought case, had everything else.) > Also, was thinking of installing a removeable HDD kit so that I can avoid a > dual boot system. Any suggestions? Why? You swap the hard drive to boot a different os? It's still a dual boot, but now with the time consuming step of switching hard drives. Besides, you might like using lilo -R win && reboot to automatically reboot into windows. I do this from the couch all the time so when B5 is over I can wander into my room and be all set for Counter-Strike. ;) Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Jun 22 10:45:54 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: <200106221505.f5MF5o121801@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: Authorized AMD resellers won't screw you on your heat-sink/fan/power supply. If they do, report them to AMD. (At least with Athlon/Duron systems) I saw someone at General Nano wanting to put their Duron in an el-cheapo case and he didn't get very far. They even asked my what I was putting in the el-cheapo case I bought. (only bought case, had everything else.) > Also, was thinking of installing a removeable HDD kit so that I can avoid a > dual boot system. Any suggestions? Why? You swap the hard drive to boot a different os? It's still a dual boot, but now with the time consuming step of switching hard drives. Besides, you might like using lilo -R win && reboot to automatically reboot into windows. I do this from the couch all the time so when B5 is over I can wander into my room and be all set for Counter-Strike. ;) Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did they would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From ssinn at qwest.net Fri Jun 22 11:01:02 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. References: Message-ID: <3B336BBE.14BF0867@qwest.net> duncan wrote: > > I asked this of the LUG a few months back,and I appologize for asking > again... > > Im moving to Minnesota the first of July, and have been trying to track > down some Unix Admin jobs, and am having a bit of a difficult time doing > so. Is anyone on the list hiring, or does anyone know of places that are > hiring, or as a last resort, can any one suggest any tech companies in the > area that _may_ be hiring? > > Its not looking goot at this point, so any suggestions would be > appreciated. > > For thoes really interested, my resume is at http://sodatrain.com/duncan/ > > Thanks a bunch- > > duncan > > -- > || || || || || || > duncan shannon > duncan@sodatrain.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list IMHO a good webiste is http://www.minnesotajobs.com They list lot of jobs, although I haven't had much luck with them. But you have more experience than I, so your luck should (hopefully) be better. :) Looking for a new job sucks... From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 22 11:50:51 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: <200106221505.f5MF5o121801@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20010622115051.J1470@ringworld.org> * Mike [010622 10:10]: > would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in > an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's > requirements of course, and something that is quiet. Globalwin makes some nice fans. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/ae79a24f/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 22 11:50:51 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: <200106221505.f5MF5o121801@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20010622115051.J1470@ringworld.org> * Mike [010622 10:10]: > would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in > an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's > requirements of course, and something that is quiet. Globalwin makes some nice fans. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/ae79a24f/attachment-0001.pgp From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jun 22 12:29:30 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: <20010622115051.J1470@ringworld.org> Message-ID: Scott is right Global win makes the best CPU heat sink fan combo. Don't fall for those golden ORB things their crap. Just my opinion. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dier Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 11:51 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Cc: tclug-list@lists.real-time.com Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. * Mike [010622 10:10]: > would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in > an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's > requirements of course, and something that is quiet. Globalwin makes some nice fans. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From dhanson2 at uswest.net Fri Jun 22 12:33:45 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. References: Message-ID: <00a901c0fb41$7daa9070$eaaf7a81@doug> For the lowdown on heatsinks go to: http://www.cluboverclocker.com/ They say that the Swiftech is the bomb!!! look here: http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/heatsinks/swiftech/swiftech_mc462-a/i ndex.htm Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew LaBerge" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:29 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. > Scott is right Global win makes the best CPU heat sink fan combo. Don't > fall for those golden ORB things their crap. Just my opinion. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On > Behalf Of Scott Dier > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 11:51 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Cc: tclug-list@lists.real-time.com > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. > > * Mike [010622 10:10]: > > would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in > > an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's > > requirements of course, and something that is quiet. > > Globalwin makes some nice fans. > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 22 13:16:36 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case Message-ID: <20010622131636.A16094@beaver.iucha.org> Hi, I have a full tower case that worked ok untill I have pulled out a couple of IDE harddrives and pulled in a couple of SCSI ones. Now it vibrates and shakes. Urrgh! Any suggestions on reinforcing the case? (other that the obvious - buy a decent case... 8( ). thanks, florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 22 13:20:24 2001 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010622132023.L1470@ringworld.org> * Matthew LaBerge [010622 12:28]: > Scott is right Global win makes the best CPU heat sink fan combo. Don't > fall for those golden ORB things their crap. Just my opinion. The ORB things are ok. The globalwins have been better tho. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/dd4a39ee/attachment.pgp From BTimm at Interelate.com Fri Jun 22 13:20:46 2001 From: BTimm at Interelate.com (Brad Timm) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case Message-ID: LOL, I wish I could find the link. I read a story about a guy with the same problem that used several cans of the compressed insulation and filled the case. Stopped the noise, and the computer after a few hours. Never could pry out the foam to diag the problem... Good luck -----Original Message----- From: Florin Iucha [mailto:florin@iucha.net] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 1:17 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case Hi, I have a full tower case that worked ok untill I have pulled out a couple of IDE harddrives and pulled in a couple of SCSI ones. Now it vibrates and shakes. Urrgh! Any suggestions on reinforcing the case? (other that the obvious - buy a decent case... 8( ). thanks, florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Fri Jun 22 13:39:22 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: ; from BTimm@Interelate.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:20:46PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010622133922.A9804@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:20:46PM -0500, Brad Timm wrote: > LOL, I wish I could find the link. I read a story about a guy with > the same problem that used several cans of the compressed insulation and > filled the case. Stopped the noise, and the computer after a few hours. > Never could pry out the foam to diag the problem... I was actually thinking about some metal sheets... Just curious if anybody else tried that first. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri Jun 22 13:58:02 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case References: Message-ID: <3B339512.20AD2F62@eetc.com> Brad Timm wrote: > LOL, I wish I could find the link. I read a story about a guy with > the same problem that used several cans of the compressed insulation and > filled the case. Stopped the noise, and the computer after a few hours. > Never could pry out the foam to diag the problem... That sounds kinda cool. I've always wanted to dip my MB in some kind of liquid rubber and water proof it. That way you could still kinda cool it off. Maybe I'll try it on some old POS that can't be upgraded. A Mac LC/Performa series would work great. :-) > From: Florin Iucha [mailto:florin@iucha.net] > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 1:17 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case > > Hi, > > I have a full tower case that worked ok untill I have pulled out a > couple of > IDE harddrives and pulled in a couple of SCSI ones. Now it vibrates and > shakes. Urrgh! > > Any suggestions on reinforcing the case? (other that the obvious - buy a > > decent case... 8( ). I have a case that does that. The cover rattles when the cdrom starts spinning. I just duct taped the sides down across the bottom. Fixed the problem rite away but doesn't look to good. :-) You could put some packing foam (the thin rubbery kind) along the inside of your case where the cover and frame connect (usually around where the cover and face plate meet). That would stop any rattling from the cover. If you do it right you shouldn't see it from the outside. Also use some foam on the backside of the MB (the metal mounting plate thingy) to push the case out from the frame. If you don't want to use packing foam you could use a couple off layers of duct tape. Basically push the cover out so it is tight and won't move. Tighten all the drives down. Put all the screws in. Nothing effectively applied mass quantities of duct tape can't handle. ;-) HTH, sim From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri Jun 22 14:25:01 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case Message-ID: Florin, I think that it may be an extraordinary effort to shore up a cheapo case. You may want to take a shot at making your own if you go that far. ;-) Buying a newer, nicer one would probably save much time and trouble. If you are short on cash and long on time, take the cover off and push on the frame and see where it flexes (not too hard). You might be able to screw in strips of heavier gauge sheet metal to remove the flexibility, but be sure not to get in the way of the cover or block air flow. If you have the equipment available, duplicating the cover in a heavier gauge might do the trick also. Good luck, Troy >>> florin@iucha.net 06/22/01 01:39PM >>> I was actually thinking about some metal sheets... Just curious if anybody else tried that first. From jason.lowe at cit-net.com Fri Jun 22 14:33:39 2001 From: jason.lowe at cit-net.com (Lowe, Jason) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case Message-ID: Why not try a couple of pieces of Dynamat on the sides? This should cut down the noise vibration. It would be the same stuff they use in car stereo installations to cut vibration from Subwoofers. -----Original Message----- From: Troy.A Johnson [mailto:Troy.A.Johnson@state.mn.us] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:25 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case Florin, I think that it may be an extraordinary effort to shore up a cheapo case. You may want to take a shot at making your own if you go that far. ;-) Buying a newer, nicer one would probably save much time and trouble. If you are short on cash and long on time, take the cover off and push on the frame and see where it flexes (not too hard). You might be able to screw in strips of heavier gauge sheet metal to remove the flexibility, but be sure not to get in the way of the cover or block air flow. If you have the equipment available, duplicating the cover in a heavier gauge might do the trick also. Good luck, Troy >>> florin@iucha.net 06/22/01 01:39PM >>> I was actually thinking about some metal sheets... Just curious if anybody else tried that first. _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 14:38:38 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: <3B339512.20AD2F62@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > That sounds kinda cool. > I've always wanted to dip my MB in some kind of liquid rubber and water > proof it. Well, if you ::really:: know where your water is coming from, absolutely 100% pure H_2O is an excellent dielectric and you could dip your mobo in it without the rubber coating. That's what they used for the dielectric in the first stage capacitors of the PBFA2 (Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator 2) at Sandia National Labs. Now it's called the Z-machine, but I think they still use 15-20' high tanks of water as really big plate capacitors! DISCLAIMER: Unless you have more experience than I in laboratory distilling methods (in which case you would have thought of it), it's foolish to try, and I won't be liable for any negative outcomes, death, destruction, dismemberment, acts of God or civil insurrection that result from such actions. But if it works well, then it was my idea. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 14:41:18 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Lowe, Jason wrote: > Why not try a couple of pieces of Dynamat on the sides? This should cut down > the noise vibration. It would be the same stuff they use in car stereo > installations to cut vibration from Subwoofers. Before you even do that, you might try taking all the mounting screws out, and then seating the drives and tightening the screws in a symmetric pattern, like the way one is supposed to correctly re-torque the cylinder head bolts on an engine. If it worked with IDE drives, I don't see that much could have changed. You might try cutting little paper / rubber shims to put between drives, too. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Jun 22 14:46:09 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case References: Message-ID: <3B33A081.3E0C19B6@structural-wood.com> "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > > Florin, > > I think that it may be an extraordinary effort to shore up a > cheapo case. You may want to take a shot at making > your own if you go that far. ;-) Buying a newer, nicer one > would probably save much time and trouble. > > If you are short on cash and long on time, take the cover > off and push on the frame and see where it flexes (not too > hard). You might be able to screw in strips of heavier gauge > sheet metal to remove the flexibility, but be sure not to > get in the way of the cover or block air flow. If you have the > equipment available, duplicating the cover in a heavier > gauge might do the trick also. > > Good luck, > > Troy > > >>> florin@iucha.net 06/22/01 01:39PM >>> > I was actually thinking about some metal sheets... Just curious if anybody > else tried that first. > You might want to try mechanically decoupling the drives from the case as well. If you have some free 5-1/4" bays you have plenty of room to come up with a suspension system for the drives... From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 22 08:55:09 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case References: Message-ID: <3B334E3D.D450507D@usfamily.net> Better yet just get a liquid nitrogen tank and throw the pc in there. Of course you will have to take off all the fans (you will not need them) and keep all of your drives outside, but you will never have any problems with it over heating. This will also water proof your mother board, as any water would freeze before it would reach the mother board. Plus nitrogen does not conduct so you dont have to worry about anything shorting out upon diping. Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > That sounds kinda cool. > > I've always wanted to dip my MB in some kind of liquid rubber and water > > proof it. > > Well, if you ::really:: know where your water is coming from, absolutely > 100% pure H_2O is an excellent dielectric and you could dip your mobo in > it without the rubber coating. That's what they used for the dielectric > in the first stage capacitors of the PBFA2 (Particle Beam Fusion > Accelerator 2) at Sandia National Labs. Now it's called the Z-machine, > but I think they still use 15-20' high tanks of water as really big plate > capacitors! > > DISCLAIMER: Unless you have more experience than I in laboratory > distilling methods (in which case you would have thought of it), it's > foolish to try, and I won't be liable for any negative outcomes, death, > destruction, dismemberment, acts of God or civil insurrection that result > from such actions. But if it works well, then it was my idea. :) > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/e8522dae/drew.vcf From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri Jun 22 15:04:28 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Postscript to ASCII Message-ID: <3B33A49C.9B7DB231@eetc.com> I just converted a postscript doc to ascii! Yay! I am wondering if there is a way to wrap the text at 80 characters (or the width of the screen) with formatting. No splitting words by dumping the rest of the sentence on the next line). Less doesn't do it. Vi doesn't seem to. Midnight Commander doesn't. Can it be done as it is converting? Anyone ever used pstotext (recomended by the ps2ascii man page)? sim From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 22 08:41:03 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case References: Message-ID: <3B334AEF.DB628683@usfamily.net> You could also make a case out of plexi glass that you can get at Axe-Man for about $8, and put all your components into that. It will eliminate sound, and will be kind of cool looking cause you can see all your internal components. Or you could build this. http://www.usfamily.net/web/drew/computer.jpg "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > Florin, > > I think that it may be an extraordinary effort to shore up a > cheapo case. You may want to take a shot at making > your own if you go that far. ;-) Buying a newer, nicer one > would probably save much time and trouble. > > If you are short on cash and long on time, take the cover > off and push on the frame and see where it flexes (not too > hard). You might be able to screw in strips of heavier gauge > sheet metal to remove the flexibility, but be sure not to > get in the way of the cover or block air flow. If you have the > equipment available, duplicating the cover in a heavier > gauge might do the trick also. > > Good luck, > > Troy > > >>> florin@iucha.net 06/22/01 01:39PM >>> > I was actually thinking about some metal sheets... Just curious if anybody > else tried that first. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: computer.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47062 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/88ad60c9/computer.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/88ad60c9/drew.vcf From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 22 15:11:53 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: <3B334E3D.D450507D@usfamily.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > Better yet just get a liquid nitrogen tank and throw the pc in there. Of What's the cost on this sort of thing? My initial idea (long ago) was to get a small chest freezer, fill it with mineral oil, and drop my system inside. The reason I didn't do it was the cost and seeming lack of mineral oil (5 gallon buckets are not easy found). I think at that point a nice Kryotec case may have been a better option. -Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 15:15:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: <3B334E3D.D450507D@usfamily.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > Better yet just get a liquid nitrogen tank and throw the pc in there. Of > course you will have to take off all the fans (you will not need them) and > keep all of your drives outside, but you will never have any problems with it > over heating. This will also water proof your mother board, as any water > would freeze before it would reach the mother board. Plus nitrogen does not > conduct so you dont have to worry about anything shorting out upon diping. > > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > > > That sounds kinda cool. > > > I've always wanted to dip my MB in some kind of liquid rubber and water > > > proof it. > > > > Well, if you ::really:: know where your water is coming from, absolutely > > 100% pure H_2O is an excellent dielectric and you could dip your mobo in > > it without the rubber coating. That's what they used for the dielectric > > in the first stage capacitors of the PBFA2 (Particle Beam Fusion > > Accelerator 2) at Sandia National Labs. Now it's called the Z-machine, > > but I think they still use 15-20' high tanks of water as really big plate > > capacitors! > > > > DISCLAIMER: Unless you have more experience than I in laboratory > > distilling methods (in which case you would have thought of it), it's > > foolish to try, and I won't be liable for any negative outcomes, death, > > destruction, dismemberment, acts of God or civil insurrection that result > > from such actions. But if it works well, then it was my idea. :) > > > > -- > > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 15:18:19 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Postscript to ASCII In-Reply-To: <3B33A49C.9B7DB231@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I just converted a postscript doc to ascii! Yay! > I am wondering if there is a way to wrap the text at 80 characters (or > the width of the screen) with formatting. No splitting words by dumping > the rest of the sentence on the next line). Can't you pipe it through pr or fold or one of the other *nix text formatting tools? I guarantee it can be done, but don't recall exactly which one you want. 'apropos wrap' might help. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 15:23:22 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Postscript to ASCII In-Reply-To: <3B33A49C.9B7DB231@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 03:04:28PM -0500 References: <3B33A49C.9B7DB231@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010622152322.A8959@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 03:04:28PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > I just converted a postscript doc to ascii! Yay! > I am wondering if there is a way to wrap the text at 80 characters (or > the width of the screen) with formatting. No splitting words by dumping > the rest of the sentence on the next line). > Less doesn't do it. Vi doesn't seem to. Midnight Commander doesn't. > Can it be done as it is converting? Anyone ever used pstotext > (recomended by the ps2ascii man page)? Vim will do it ( and there's probably a better way than I'm going to tell you and I'm sure there's a perl one liner that'd do it as well). Open the file up in vim. Go into visual mode (hit v). Select the the text you want to to split (using arrow keys, whatever) hit 'gq' -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri Jun 22 15:25:38 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case References: <3B334E3D.D450507D@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <3B33A98F.49356E0C@eetc.com> Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > Better yet just get a liquid nitrogen tank and throw the pc in there. Of > course you will have to take off all the fans (you will not need them) and > keep all of your drives outside, but you will never have any problems with it > over heating. This will also water proof your mother board, as any water > would freeze before it would reach the mother board. Plus nitrogen does not > conduct so you dont have to worry about anything shorting out upon diping. Hmmmm. So would my hands. I think I'll stick with the safer methods of cooling for now. :-) > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > > > That sounds kinda cool. > > > I've always wanted to dip my MB in some kind of liquid rubber and water > > > proof it. > > > > Well, if you ::really:: know where your water is coming from, absolutely > > 100% pure H_2O is an excellent dielectric and you could dip your mobo in > > it without the rubber coating. That's what they used for the dielectric > > in the first stage capacitors of the PBFA2 (Particle Beam Fusion > > Accelerator 2) at Sandia National Labs. Now it's called the Z-machine, > > but I think they still use 15-20' high tanks of water as really big plate > > capacitors! > > > > DISCLAIMER: Unless you have more experience than I in laboratory > > distilling methods (in which case you would have thought of it), it's > > foolish to try, and I won't be liable for any negative outcomes, death, > > destruction, dismemberment, acts of God or civil insurrection that result > > from such actions. But if it works well, then it was my idea. :) Nice disclaimer. I was thinking more along the lines of household tap water, lakes, rivers.... Something like this. ________________________ _______________| |______________________________________ Water PIPE in | MB encased in rubber | Water continues on it's coarse.... ---------------| |-------------------------------------- ------------------------ Just let the water flow over the MB and cool it. A shutoff valve at each end and some sort of pass through pipe so you could theoretically pull the encasement if needed. Maybe encasing it in the ceramic tiles the space shuttle is maid out off would work better. :-) Just a some random neuron's firing. sim From drew at usfamily.net Fri Jun 22 09:30:04 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case References: Message-ID: <3B33566C.8FEB57A4@usfamily.net> Well it may be kind of expencive, because you must have refrigerent equiptment to store the Liquid N2. The N2 it self is not that expencive, the university seems to waist it shamelessly, I'm guessing if it was that valuable then they would controll the usage. Brian wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > > Better yet just get a liquid nitrogen tank and throw the pc in there. Of > > What's the cost on this sort of thing? My initial idea (long ago) was to > get a small chest freezer, fill it with mineral oil, and drop my system > inside. The reason I didn't do it was the cost and seeming lack of > mineral oil (5 gallon buckets are not easy found). I think at that point > a nice Kryotec case may have been a better option. > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/f9d9a5a4/drew.vcf From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 22 15:28:35 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: References: <3B339512.20AD2F62@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010622152835.2f79a18d.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:38:38 -0500 (CDT) "Phil Mendelsohn" wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > That sounds kinda cool. > > I've always wanted to dip my MB in some kind of liquid rubber and water > > proof it. > > Well, if you ::really:: know where your water is coming from, absolutely > 100% pure H_2O is an excellent dielectric and you could dip your mobo in > it without the rubber coating. Err, water is a pretty good oxidizer, especially as the temperature elevates... and too good of a solvent to be immersing electronic components in it. Also, don't forget that traces of flux and who-knows-what are likely to disolve and corrupt your 'pure' H20 in very short order. Liquid nitrogen is used, as it is chemically free of oxygen... You could also look into ethylene glycol, or so I am told; it seems kind enough to copper radiators in cars. Distilled or not, I think you would find it's effect on component life to be seriously detrimental. It must be Friday. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 15:32:11 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: <3B33A98F.49356E0C@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Just a some random neuron's firing. > sim Don't say "firing." Say "downsizing." -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From natecars at real-time.com Fri Jun 22 15:34:04 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Well, if you ::really:: know where your water is coming from, absolutely > 100% pure H_2O is an excellent dielectric and you could dip your mobo in > it without the rubber coating. That's what they used for the dielectric > in the first stage capacitors of the PBFA2 (Particle Beam Fusion > Accelerator 2) at Sandia National Labs. Now it's called the Z-machine, > but I think they still use 15-20' high tanks of water as really big plate > capacitors! > > DISCLAIMER: Unless you have more experience than I in laboratory > distilling methods (in which case you would have thought of it), it's > foolish to try, and I won't be liable for any negative outcomes, death, > destruction, dismemberment, acts of God or civil insurrection that result > from such actions. But if it works well, then it was my idea. :) I ran a 386 in a bucket full of plain 'ol distilled water once. It actually worked, too. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 15:38:28 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: <20010622152835.2f79a18d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > Distilled or not, I think you would find it's effect on component life to > be seriously detrimental. Well, of course you're right about oxidation and all those fun side effects. The real beauty of the idea is that it isn't *I* who would find the detrimental effects at all! I never said I'd do it on my _own_ project. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri Jun 22 15:50:52 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Postscript to ASCII References: Message-ID: <3B33AF77.A77753C5@eetc.com> Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > I just converted a postscript doc to ascii! Yay! > > I am wondering if there is a way to wrap the text at 80 characters (or > > the width of the screen) with formatting. No splitting words by dumping > > the rest of the sentence on the next line). > > Can't you pipe it through pr or fold or one of the other *nix text > formatting tools? I guarantee it can be done, but don't recall exactly > which one you want. 'apropos wrap' might help. Yes. fold -w 72 -s AsciiFile Very nice. Width 72 and break at spaces. Pipe to file. Done. Pr doesn't seem to do the same thing. I don't want to paginate it anyway. Thanks, sim From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jun 22 16:32:57 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Postscript to ASCII In-Reply-To: <3B33A49C.9B7DB231@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 03:04:28PM -0500 References: <3B33A49C.9B7DB231@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010622163257.F18108@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 03:04:28PM -0500, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Less doesn't do it. Vi doesn't seem to. Midnight Commander doesn't. > Can it be done as it is converting? Anyone ever used pstotext > (recomended by the ps2ascii man page)? I usually use fmt for arranging line breaks. Based on the man pages, fmt looks to be a bit smarter than fold, but I leave it to you to decide whether it's too smart for its own good... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Fri Jun 22 14:35:55 2001 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftape 4.04 install problems Message-ID: <004d01c0fb52$8e13b480$0ad2e5cf@means.net> I am new to Linux ( using RedHat 6.2) and am having a difficult time configuring my Colorado Trakker 350. When doing "make, or make install" using (Ftape 4.04), I get many lines of info scrolling by about entering and leaving directories. At the end I get an error: "No Rule to make target '/usr/src/linux/.config', needed by ftape-init.o . Stop. At the end of everything it says make: *** [Install] error 2 Can I correspond with anyone about this? Raymond Norton LCTN 320-234-0270 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/91e229c2/attachment.htm From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 22 22:28:27 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ftape 4.04 install problems In-Reply-To: <004d01c0fb52$8e13b480$0ad2e5cf@means.net> References: <004d01c0fb52$8e13b480$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Message-ID: <20010622222827.7c618bae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Raymond Norton" wrote: > > I am new to Linux ( using RedHat 6.2) and am having a difficult time > configuring my Colorado Trakker 350. When doing "make, or make install" > using (Ftape 4.04), I get many lines of info scrolling by about entering > and leaving directories. At the end I get an error: "No Rule to make > target '/usr/src/linux/.config', needed by ftape-init.o . Stop. At the > end of everything it says make: *** [Install] error 2 Yeah, you need to configure the kernel before building it. I personally like `make xconfig', though lots of people like doing it through text menus with `make menuconfig'. However, I would think that RedHat came with the ftape module already compiled. Have you tried just doing `modprobe ftape' as root? (or is there some reason for you to compile it fresh?) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Gravity brings me down. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010622/e89a0370/attachment.pgp From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 23 02:44:54 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. References: Message-ID: <05dc01c0fbb8$64c96b90$0300000a@anelginanalas> You could try these sites: http://www.techies.com http://www.monster.com http://www.dice.com I've personally been looking for a software development job since February. The market is really bad right now. Mike Bresnahan ----- Original Message ----- From: "duncan" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. > I asked this of the LUG a few months back,and I appologize for asking > again... > > Im moving to Minnesota the first of July, and have been trying to track > down some Unix Admin jobs, and am having a bit of a difficult time doing > so. Is anyone on the list hiring, or does anyone know of places that are > hiring, or as a last resort, can any one suggest any tech companies in the > area that _may_ be hiring? > > Its not looking goot at this point, so any suggestions would be > appreciated. > > For thoes really interested, my resume is at http://sodatrain.com/duncan/ > > Thanks a bunch- > > duncan > > > > -- > || || || || || || > duncan shannon > duncan@sodatrain.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Jun 23 00:53:07 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. References: <05dc01c0fbb8$64c96b90$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <3B342EC3.7060405@ringworld.org> Mike Bresnahan wrote: > I've personally been looking for a software development job since February. > The market is really bad right now. Hmm, what kind of programming? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From nate at techie.com Sat Jun 23 06:44:09 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: <05dc01c0fbb8$64c96b90$0300000a@anelginanalas>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 12:44:54AM -0700 References: <05dc01c0fbb8$64c96b90$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <20010623064409.A26805@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 12:44:54AM -0700, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > You could try these sites: > > http://www.techies.com > http://www.monster.com > http://www.dice.com I've tried most of these sites. I'll recommend using Monster.com since I landed my job through them. I recommend NOT using dice.com. The amount of spam I got skyrocketted when I was on there. Techies.com was pretty quiet when I was on there. They didn't seem to have much. My 2 cents, Nate From rsinland at gvtel.com Sat Jun 23 07:53:52 2001 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. References: <200106221505.f5MF5o121801@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3B349160.88D5E714@gvtel.com> Mike wrote: > > I am in the process of putting together a new system and was wondering what > would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in > an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's > requirements of course, and something that is quiet. > > Where would be a good place to purchase the item? Has anyone purchased a > motherboard bundle from Multiwave? If so, were you happy with the fan they > supplied? I got the MB/CPU/RAM/Case bundle from Mwave for an Athlon 1100 and though it might have been ok I ended up replacing the fan with one that I got from www.coolerguys.com , the Vantec, only was a diff model then the one they show on the website this morning. Made the CPU run about 20 Deg F cooler at full load then the one from Mwave. Only other picky complaint is the shortage of HD bays, but you may select a diff case then I did. RS From destef at destef.com Sat Jun 23 09:04:07 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Windows 2000 mount problem In-Reply-To: <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> References: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> Message-ID: <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> Anyone been able to smbmount a windows 2000 share succesfully? I've tried and had no luck. I'm trying to get a RH6.0 or 6.1 (2.0.3 or 2.0.5 samba versions respectivly) to sucessfully mount and no matter what i try I get an "access denied" error. I've checked a few things I've found on internet searches and they describe it the same way I'm trying it but mine doesnt work. I can map drive exported by the linux server no problem but not the other way. Anyone been sucessful at this and can offer any help? Thanks, Jason From andy at theasis.com Sat Jun 23 09:09:31 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Windows 2000 mount problem In-Reply-To: <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: > way I'm trying it but mine doesnt work. I can map drive > exported by the linux server no problem but not the other > way. Since there's stuff going on at 2 ends, make sure you also eliminate problems with the windoze share -- i.e., make sure another win box can mount it, if you can & haven't already Andy > Thanks, > Jason > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From spencer at sihope.com Fri Jun 22 21:29:54 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history Message-ID: <01062221295401.01037@red.autonomous.tv> I am a somewhat erratic typist at times. This causes me much greif when I telnet into my cisco 675. The device will not keep an editable command history. Sure, it will give you your last command, but you can not edit any mistake you may have made in syntax. This is no problem for short command and such. It is a real PITA when setting filter rules though. Is it possible to have linux remember the history? -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y From blutgens at sistina.com Sat Jun 23 09:38:27 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. In-Reply-To: <20010623064409.A26805@candle.mn.mediaone.net>; from nate@techie.com on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 06:44:09AM -0500 References: <05dc01c0fbb8$64c96b90$0300000a@anelginanalas> <20010623064409.A26805@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20010623093827.A690@minime.sistina.com> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 06:44:09AM -0500, Nate Straz wrote: >On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 12:44:54AM -0700, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > >I've tried most of these sites. I'll recommend using Monster.com since >I landed my job through them. I recommend NOT using dice.com. The >amount of spam I got skyrocketted when I was on there. Techies.com was >pretty quiet when I was on there. They didn't seem to have much. > I too have used monster.com after just a week of having my resume posted there I got a half dozen phone calls. One of which helped me land my former job. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010623/88cef0a3/attachment.pgp From brian at ghostreactor.com Sat Jun 23 09:54:35 2001 From: brian at ghostreactor.com (Brian Riesgraf) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Need CPU fan rec. In-Reply-To: <3B349160.88D5E714@gvtel.com> Message-ID: For 8 bucks you cant go wrong with the Cooler Master DP5-6H11, its a nice setup that i have used on a few athlon/duron machines that i have built. If you want to spend a litle more the ThermoEngine Heat Sink w/ Delta Black Label fan is THE SHIT right now for around 30 bucks. The thermoengine comes with a 5400 rpm fan that works great, but slappin a black label fan that runs at 7200 RPM's will help with all your overclocking desires. If you want to run quiet sticking with the default themoengine setup is a better idea, the 7200 rpm fans tend to be a little loud. Brian Riesgraf Ghost Reactor Industries www.ghostreactor.com On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Robert Sinland wrote: > > > Mike wrote: > > > > I am in the process of putting together a new system and was wondering what > > would be a good fan/heatsink combo. for an AMD T-Bird 1200 (266) going in > > an Abit KT7A-RAID board. I would like something that meets AMD's > > requirements of course, and something that is quiet. > > > > Where would be a good place to purchase the item? Has anyone purchased a > > motherboard bundle from Multiwave? If so, were you happy with the fan they > > supplied? > > I got the MB/CPU/RAM/Case bundle from Mwave for an Athlon 1100 > and though it might have been ok I ended up replacing the fan with > one that I got from www.coolerguys.com , the Vantec, only was a diff > model then the one they show on the website this morning. Made the CPU > run about 20 Deg F cooler at full load then the one from Mwave. > Only other picky complaint is the shortage of HD bays, but you may > select a diff case then I did. > RS > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ssinn at qwest.net Sat Jun 23 10:04:34 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history References: <01062221295401.01037@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <3B34B002.D78CB06D@qwest.net> AAAunderground wrote: > > I am a somewhat erratic typist at times. This causes me much greif when I > telnet into my cisco 675. The device will not keep an editable command > history. Sure, it will give you your last command, but you can not edit any > mistake you may have made in syntax. This is no problem for short command and > such. It is a real PITA when setting filter rules though. Is it possible to > have linux remember the history? > -- > Spencer Underground > mailto:spencer@sihope.com > deltree c:\windows /y > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list IMHO the easiest way is to use the script command. It pipes all output to a file called typescript. Don't worry, it won't capture your passwords :) I actually use the script command quite a bit, along with another simple shell script I wrote, to help me write other shell scripts. If anyone is interested, let me know. /* DISCLAIMER -- It is a pretty basic script for writing pretty basic scripts */ From spencer at sihope.com Fri Jun 22 22:28:09 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history In-Reply-To: <3B34B002.D78CB06D@qwest.net> References: <01062221295401.01037@red.autonomous.tv> <3B34B002.D78CB06D@qwest.net> Message-ID: <01062222280902.01037@red.autonomous.tv> If anyone is > interested, let me know. /* DISCLAIMER -- It is a pretty basic script > for writing pretty basic scripts */ I have yet to write a script. So, it is HighTime I did so. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y From ssinn at qwest.net Sat Jun 23 10:33:45 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history References: <01062221295401.01037@red.autonomous.tv> <3B34B002.D78CB06D@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B34B6D9.EF91D9D0@qwest.net> Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > AAAunderground wrote: > > > > I am a somewhat erratic typist at times. This causes me much greif when I > > telnet into my cisco 675. The device will not keep an editable command > > history. Sure, it will give you your last command, but you can not edit any > > mistake you may have made in syntax. This is no problem for short command and > > such. It is a real PITA when setting filter rules though. Is it possible to > > have linux remember the history? > > -- > > Spencer Underground > > mailto:spencer@sihope.com > > deltree c:\windows /y > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > IMHO the easiest way is to use the script command. It pipes all output > to a file called typescript. Don't worry, it won't capture your > passwords :) > I actually use the script command quite a bit, along with another simple > shell script I wrote, to help me write other shell scripts. If anyone is > interested, let me know. /* DISCLAIMER -- It is a pretty basic script > for writing pretty basic scripts */ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I just read my last email. I hope is wasn't too confusing. :) You may also try a script like telnet 10.0.0.1 << EOF $exec_password ena ble $enable_password command1 command2 command3 etc... EOF I haven't tried this on a router, but I have used it a lot for FTP'ing etc. By running the script, you have control over what you are doing before you log into the router. You could even make the script use another file for input if you needed to make router changes on a regular basis. I hope I am not complicating this too much :) From spencer at sihope.com Fri Jun 22 22:43:58 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: OT (a little) -- Re: [TCLUG] reinforced computer case In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01062222435803.01037@red.autonomous.tv> On Friday 22 June 2001 03:11 pm, you wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > Better yet just get a liquid nitrogen tank and throw the pc in there. Of > > What's the cost on this sort of thing? My initial idea (long ago) was to > get a small chest freezer, fill it with mineral oil, and drop my system > inside. The reason I didn't do it was the cost and seeming lack of > mineral oil (5 gallon buckets are not easy found). I think at that point > a nice Kryotec case may have been a better option. > Nothing beats a hot summer chip like -300*. http://www.pcm-solutions.com/sink.html -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y From fertch at mninter.net Sat Jun 23 11:38:50 2001 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. References: Message-ID: <3B34C61A.EC108A4B@mninter.net> When I worked for Lutheran Brotherhood about three years ago, there really wasn't any Unix that I know of. It was all running IBM mainframe OS390 on a 390 (now Z-series) mainframe. Their network stations consisted of NT4.0 boxes, and I believe right now they are doing a migration to Win2k. They did have a really ancient AS-400 system that needed to be backed up nightly which failed quite often. Of course, I was just an overnight computer room person. I submitted and monitored the jobs on the mainframe, printed out the statements and did backups. Nothing really techinical, but it was my first job in the IT field and it was a foot in the door. Now, as to AIX boxes... What do you think runs on AIX boxes? It's a type of Unix just like HP, DEC/64, Solaris and so forth. Unix is such a generic term now days anyways. Just because you can say that you know "unix" doesn't mean the world. They all have their own way of doing things. It's all in what you're used to of doing and comfortable with. Same with Linux. > > Luthern Brotherhood is where my dad works, but it doesn't seem like they > > have any sysadmin jobs really right now at all. Heck, I dont even think > > they have much unix anyhow. Probally some huge AIX boxes or something > > else scary. There is VB/C++ programmer jobs (yick!) From seg at haxxed.com Sat Jun 23 11:54:02 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history References: <01062221295401.01037@red.autonomous.tv> <3B34B002.D78CB06D@qwest.net> <3B34B6D9.EF91D9D0@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B34C9AA.3336B488@haxxed.com> Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > > > AAAunderground wrote: > > > > > > I am a somewhat erratic typist at times. This causes me much greif when I > > > telnet into my cisco 675. The device will not keep an editable command > > > history. Sure, it will give you your last command, but you can not edit any > > > mistake you may have made in syntax. This is no problem for short command and > > > such. It is a real PITA when setting filter rules though. Is it possible to > > > have linux remember the history? You could just telnet using tf... (TinyFuge) http://www.muq.org/~hawkeye/tf/ Its main purpose is to be a telnet client with a line edit buffer thingy with history... From destef at destef.com Sat Jun 23 12:38:18 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Windows 2000 mount problem In-Reply-To: References: <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <200106231738.f5NHcHX04851@ernie.destef.com> Yes. Its mounting a share that many people have had access to for a long time. At 09:09 AM 6/23/01 -0500, you wrote: >> way I'm trying it but mine doesnt work. I can map drive >> exported by the linux server no problem but not the other >> way. > >Since there's stuff going on at 2 ends, make sure you also eliminate >problems with the windoze share -- i.e., make sure another win box can >mount it, if you can & haven't already > >Andy > >> Thanks, >> Jason >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tclug-list mailing list >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Sat Jun 23 12:42:41 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPS maps and linux Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628097D@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Anyone know how I can load maps onto my shiny new Garmin Legend GPS under Linux? I'm considering purchasing the mapsource cdrom, but it's only for windows. I read somewhere awhile back that there was a place you could download free maps and a linux program to load them, but I can't seem to remember where it was. Jay From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Jun 23 12:42:28 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. References: <3B34C61A.EC108A4B@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3B34D504.8000603@ringworld.org> Shawn wrote: > really wasn't any Unix that I know of. It was all running IBM > mainframe OS390 on a 390 (now Z-series) mainframe. Their network > stations > Now, as to AIX boxes... What do you think runs on AIX boxes? It's a >type of Unix just like HP, DEC/64, Solaris and so forth. Unix is such The person I talked to, who probally got it wrong, thought they were sp frames or some sort of rs6k boxes. Those run AIX, a variant of UNIX from IBM. Speaking of, I've worked with IRIX, Solaris, AIX, QNX, and Linux on various levels. Mostly Linux and Solaris though. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From dutchman at uswest.net Sat Jun 23 13:03:15 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question Message-ID: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> Greet the sun all: Question: How do you get grep to recursviely step through lower level directorys? I am doing the following command: grep -l 'some text' *.html and it will look in the current directory but no lower. I looked at the man pages and my 'Linux in a Nutshell' book but could find no -r option. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From jreuter at reuter-engineering.com Sat Jun 23 13:19:37 2001 From: jreuter at reuter-engineering.com (Jon V. Reuter) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3B34DDB9.D4F636BE@reuter-engineering.com> I use rgrep. Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Question: How do you get grep to recursviely step through lower level > directorys? > > I am doing the following command: > > grep -l 'some text' *.html > > and it will look in the current directory but no lower. I looked at the > man pages and my 'Linux in a Nutshell' book but could find no -r option. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Solutions > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman at uswest.net Sat Jun 23 13:16:23 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> <3B34DDB9.D4F636BE@reuter-engineering.com> Message-ID: <3B34DCF7.B344D5E3@uswest.net> "Jon V. Reuter" wrote: > I use rgrep. ...mmmmmmm, no rgrep. Thank you anyway. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From ssinn at qwest.net Sat Jun 23 13:29:54 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> <3B34DDB9.D4F636BE@reuter-engineering.com> <3B34DCF7.B344D5E3@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3B34E022.AF63425@qwest.net> Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > "Jon V. Reuter" wrote: > > > I use rgrep. > > ...mmmmmmm, no rgrep. Thank you anyway. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Solutions > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list You can try find . -depth -type f | xargs grep -i "some text" | less or instead of piping it to less you could redirect it to a file... From houle at citilink.com Sat Jun 23 13:27:52 2001 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apple & Linux Message-ID: This is a dumb question but wondering if I could run a dual boot with Linux and the Mac OS. Thinking of one of the new iBook's that have recently come to market particularily with the new Mac OS X? Terry Houle houle@citilink.com From blayer at qwest.net Sat Jun 23 13:58:02 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apple & Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010623135802.6bea54d6.blayer@qwest.net> On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:27:52 -0500 "Terry Houle" wrote: > This is a dumb question but wondering if I could run a dual boot with Linux > and the Mac OS. Thinking of one of the new iBook's that have recently come > to market particularily with the new Mac OS X? AFAIK, Dual-boot is the only way to run Linux on a Mac.. at least with the 68k models. Check to see how LinuxPPC or YellowDog is started. If it's anything like 68k, there is a 'booter' application that you start, which then bootstraps the machine, loads the kernel and starts the Linux boot process. One thing for sure, you will need to have sep. partitions for the Linux & MacOS installs. Good luck, -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From dutchman at uswest.net Sat Jun 23 14:00:19 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> <3B34DDB9.D4F636BE@reuter-engineering.com> <3B34DCF7.B344D5E3@uswest.net> <3B34E022.AF63425@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B34E742.BAAF991C@uswest.net> That was it, thank you. For some reason, I never think of find. I got to get out of the box. Have a lovely weekend. Spencer J Sinn wrote: > Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > > "Jon V. Reuter" wrote: > > > > > I use rgrep. > > > > ...mmmmmmm, no rgrep. Thank you anyway. > > > > -- > > Perry Hoekstra > > E-Commerce Architect > > Talent Software Solutions > > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > You can try > find . -depth -type f | xargs grep -i "some text" | less > > or instead of piping it to less you could redirect it to a file... > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Jun 23 14:39:30 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apple & Linux References: <20010623135802.6bea54d6.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B34F072.9090900@ringworld.org> Bill Layer wrote: > AFAIK, Dual-boot is the only way to run Linux on a Mac.. at least with the > 68k models. Check to see how LinuxPPC or YellowDog is started. If it's Not so, on many of the newworld ppc boxes you can install without having macos around. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Jun 23 15:27:44 2001 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? Message-ID: Can anyone else get to SlashDot today? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From dutchman at uswest.net Sat Jun 23 15:41:51 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? References: Message-ID: <3B34FF0F.7F167CFB@uswest.net> Nope, it has been down since noon. Jon Schewe wrote: > Can anyone else get to SlashDot today? > -- > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net > For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels > nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any > powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all > creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that > is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Solutions perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 23 16:09:32 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? In-Reply-To: <3B34FF0F.7F167CFB@uswest.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Nope, it has been down since noon. I've noticed that much of the world is sluggish and I'm getting server busy / missing errors on two or three different computers. I wonder if there's backbone trouble somewhere? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 23 18:41:31 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <000901c0fc3e$08311460$0300000a@anelginanalas> find . -name '*.html' -exec grep {} \; -print ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry Hoekstra" To: Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question > Greet the sun all: > > Question: How do you get grep to recursviely step through lower level > directorys? > > I am doing the following command: > > grep -l 'some text' *.html > > and it will look in the current directory but no lower. I looked at the > man pages and my 'Linux in a Nutshell' book but could find no -r option. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Solutions > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 23 18:48:53 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history References: <01062221295401.01037@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <002b01c0fc3f$0f9cb000$0300000a@anelginanalas> What I do is use my favorite editor, emacs, to create a scipt of command and then I copy and paste it into the telnet session. You have to be careful that the script is not too long because evidently the cisco 675 does not do flow control and a big script will cause it to crash. Yik! Mike Bresnahan ----- Original Message ----- From: "AAAunderground" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 7:29 PM Subject: [TCLUG] telnet and command history > I am a somewhat erratic typist at times. This causes me much greif when I > telnet into my cisco 675. The device will not keep an editable command > history. Sure, it will give you your last command, but you can not edit any > mistake you may have made in syntax. This is no problem for short command and > such. It is a real PITA when setting filter rules though. Is it possible to > have linux remember the history? > -- > Spencer Underground > mailto:spencer@sihope.com > deltree c:\windows /y > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 23 17:07:23 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question In-Reply-To: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 01:03:15PM -0500 References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010623170723.A5538@beaver.iucha.org> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 01:03:15PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Question: How do you get grep to recursviely step through lower level > directorys? > > I am doing the following command: > > grep -l 'some text' *.html > > and it will look in the current directory but no lower. I looked at the > man pages and my 'Linux in a Nutshell' book but could find no -r option. > grep --recursive ... ... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Jun 23 19:23:47 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> <20010623170723.A5538@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <003301c0fc43$ef8038a0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Your post prompted me to read the grep man page. I found the following in the grep man page that comes with a fairly recent version of Cygwin. -r, --recursive Read all files under each directory, recursively; this is equivalent to the -d recurse option. Has this option always been there and I've simply been ignorant of it for the past 10 years or did it get added recently? Perhaps its always been in the GNU/Linux version of grep but not in the commercial versions available on Solaris and HPUX? Now I just need to break the old habit of using find. Mike Bresnahan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Florin Iucha" To: Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Grep Question > On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 01:03:15PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > Greet the sun all: > > > > Question: How do you get grep to recursviely step through lower level > > directorys? > > > > I am doing the following command: > > > > grep -l 'some text' *.html > > > > and it will look in the current directory but no lower. I looked at the > > man pages and my 'Linux in a Nutshell' book but could find no -r option. > > > > grep --recursive ... ... > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gabe at msi.umn.edu Sat Jun 23 17:21:54 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Windows 2000 mount problem In-Reply-To: <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com>; from destef@destef.com on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 09:04:07AM -0500 References: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <20010623172154.A9042@squall.localdomain> You may need to update samba. Try going to 2.0.7 or higher. Gabe On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 09:04:07AM -0500, Jason DeStefano wrote: > Anyone been able to smbmount a windows 2000 share > succesfully? I've tried and had no luck. I'm trying to get > a RH6.0 or 6.1 (2.0.3 or 2.0.5 samba versions respectivly) > to sucessfully mount and no matter what i try I get an > "access denied" error. I've checked a few things I've > found on internet searches and they describe it the same > way I'm trying it but mine doesnt work. I can map drive > exported by the linux server no problem but not the other > way. > > Anyone been sucessful at this and can offer any help? > > Thanks, > Jason > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 23 18:30:22 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grep Question In-Reply-To: <003301c0fc43$ef8038a0$0300000a@anelginanalas>; from mike@fruitioninc.com on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 05:23:47PM -0700 References: <3B34D9E2.D975C3E0@uswest.net> <20010623170723.A5538@beaver.iucha.org> <003301c0fc43$ef8038a0$0300000a@anelginanalas> Message-ID: <20010623183022.A29706@beaver.iucha.org> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 05:23:47PM -0700, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > Your post prompted me to read the grep man page. I found the following in > the grep man page that comes with a fairly recent version of Cygwin. > > -r, --recursive > Read all files under each directory, recursively; > this is equivalent to the -d recurse option. > > Has this option always been there and I've simply been ignorant of it for > the past 10 years or did it get added recently? Perhaps its always been in > the GNU/Linux version of grep but not in the commercial versions available > on Solaris and HPUX? I have started using Linux about 5 years ago... so I don't remember it being added. Solaris or HP-UX greps don't have that option. Also GNU diff is much better than the original diff. Of course I have downloaded and installed GNU at work.. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From labmat at mn.mediaone.net Sat Jun 23 18:58:37 2001 From: labmat at mn.mediaone.net (Matthew LaBerge) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know but I've been having Internet trouble since Friday, anyone else have these troubles? I have AT&T Broadband. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Phil Mendelsohn Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 4:10 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] slashdot down? On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Nope, it has been down since noon. I've noticed that much of the world is sluggish and I'm getting server busy / missing errors on two or three different computers. I wonder if there's backbone trouble somewhere? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at sihope.com Sat Jun 23 14:42:52 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Kingston KNE20T Message-ID: <01062314425205.01846@ursuper.autonomous.tv> Same computer different NIC. When I do an /sbin/insmod ne I am told I have unresolved symbols. When I do it like this /sbin/insmod ne > insmoderr This is all I get Using /lib/modules/2.4.2-2/kernel/drivers/net/ne.o There are five lines that look simular to this one /lib/modules/2.4.2-2/kernel/drivers/net/ne.o: unresolved symbol ei_open_RF231 I would like to capture the entire error message. I would like to resolve the symbols. I know this has to do with the I/O address and IRQ. -- deltree c:\windows /y From spencer at sihope.com Sat Jun 23 14:26:06 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T Message-ID: <01062314260600.01846@ursuper.autonomous.tv> Same computer different NIC. When I do an /sbin/insmod ne I am told I have unresolved symbols. When I do it like this /sbin/insmod ne > insmoderr This is all I get Using /lib/modules/2.4.2-2/kernel/drivers/net/ne.o There are five lines that look simular to this one /lib/modules/2.4.2-2/kernel/drivers/net/ne.o: unresolved symbol ei_open_RF231 I would like to capture the entire error message. I would like to resolve the symbols. I know this has to do with the I/O address and IRQ. -- deltree c:\windows /y From nate at techie.com Sat Jun 23 19:38:29 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? In-Reply-To: ; from labmat@mn.mediaone.net on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 06:58:37PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010623193829.A32167@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 06:58:37PM -0500, Matthew LaBerge wrote: > I don't know but I've been having Internet trouble since Friday, anyone else > have these troubles? I have AT&T Broadband. I've had trouble with AT&T Broadband since I got it last weekend. Finally, I'm out of the boonies! :) I wasn't able to get to ssm.mediaone.com, their E-mail management server or non-us.debian.org. They had started some network maintenance for Minnesota on the 12th. There is a message up on their support site that they are having trouble again. http://help.broadband.att.com/support/ Nate From veldy at veldy.net Sat Jun 23 21:58:15 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? References: Message-ID: <000801c0fc59$83afcf80$0101a8c0@cascade> No, Internet is just fine. Slashdot is down and out though. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew LaBerge" To: Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] slashdot down? > I don't know but I've been having Internet trouble since Friday, anyone else > have these troubles? I have AT&T Broadband. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On > Behalf Of Phil Mendelsohn > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 4:10 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] slashdot down? > > On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > Nope, it has been down since noon. > > I've noticed that much of the world is sluggish and I'm getting server > busy / missing errors on two or three different computers. I wonder if > there's backbone trouble somewhere? > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From spencer at sihope.com Sat Jun 23 23:02:26 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] freshmeat Message-ID: <01062323022600.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> Maybe it's just me but, freshmeat is down too? -- deltree c:\windows /y From mike at getbent.net Sat Jun 23 22:40:29 2001 From: mike at getbent.net (Mike Nielsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] freshmeat In-Reply-To: <01062323022600.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> References: <01062323022600.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <01062322402900.08291@Dingo> It's not you. Freshmeat.net is down as well as mysql.com At least for me. On Saturday 23 June 2001 23:02, you wrote: > Maybe it's just me but, freshmeat is down too? -- ----------------------------- |\/|ike@GetBent.net From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Jun 23 22:41:50 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] freshmeat In-Reply-To: <01062323022600.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, AAAunderground wrote: > Maybe it's just me but, freshmeat is down too? I'm going to take a stab and say that since they're both owned by Andover and they sit on the same subnet that the servers are sitting next to each other or at lesat sharing the same bandwidth. I'd guess it's an upstream problem. From spencer at sihope.com Sat Jun 23 23:18:18 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] freshmeat In-Reply-To: <01062322402900.08291@Dingo> References: <01062323022600.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> <01062322402900.08291@Dingo> Message-ID: <01062323181801.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> On Saturday 23 June 2001 10:40 pm, you wrote: > It's not you. > > Freshmeat.net is down as well as mysql.com > I am on the mysql list and usually get a thread an hour at least. My last time stamp is from 9pm. -- deltree c:\windows /y From joel at luths.net Sat Jun 23 23:01:25 2001 From: joel at luths.net (Joel Luth) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) References: <01C0FA44.14E44C00.hwagamon@andersonww.com><3B324237.9F4110FE@qwest.net> Message-ID: <022101c0fc62$574afa60$6601a8c0@cargill.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dyer-Bennet" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Linux Newbie (WAS RE: [TCLUG] [OT] - Jamie Ostrowski) > "Spencer J Sinn" writes: > > > I use qwests DSL service and have not had any problems running several > > machines on the line. > > Ditto. > > > If you are going to use an internal network, get the external modem > > (well, its really a router, but qwest calls it a modem. It is the > > Cisco 675 or the 678 IIRC). You will get assigned a dynamic IP, but > > it only changes if you turn off the router (or qwest flushes the DSL > > pools). > > My experience before I got the static IPs in (so back in 1999) was > that the IP changed at least once a day. > I switched to static IPs almost a year ago, but even back when I had the dynamic IP I don't think it changed for about nine months. The DHCP lease time was fairly short (4 hours I think), but my PC was occasionally down for a day or so without getting a different IP. Given that experience, I probably should have stayed dynamic but I was planning to host a biz site. Someday I'll probably go back to dynamic to save $ and use a dyanmic DNS service like you suggest below. And I think your "guess" is correct; I recall needing to install an updater agent on your PC. > > It is very easy to use NAT to run services out. The only downside is > > there is no DNS for it; a person wanting to access the webpage or > > mailserver would have to use the IP address. Other DSL providers > > offer static IP addresses, but I don't know anything about > > those. Someone else on the list will. > > USWest leases me "8" static IPs, but they get $15/month for it (ick). > > There are dynamic DNS providers who let you have DNS names pointing to > dynamic IPs. I haven't needed it, so I don't know how they do it (do > you run a local utility that keeps them updated on the current IP, I'd > guess?) And of course there's the question of whether the agreement > allows you to run services. Mine does, but I'm 768K DSL under their > SOHO division, not personal. > -- > David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd-b@dd-b.net > SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon/ > Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From peter.clark at tides.com Sat Jun 23 23:21:11 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Calm my fears--CPU temps Message-ID: <200106240446.f5O4kqK20047@sprite.real-time.com> All this talk of CPU heatsinks and whatnot reminded me that I wanted to get lm_snesors up and running. Having done so, I discovered that my Athlon 1.2 was running at a consistent 50 degrees C, with a system temp of 39 degrees. I know Athlons are supposed to run hot, but 50? The chip isn't overclocked, either, in case you were running. Does anyone know where I can get specs for Athlon running temperatures? When is hot too hot? :Peter From spencer at sihope.com Sun Jun 24 00:28:38 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Calm my fears--CPU temps In-Reply-To: <200106240446.f5O4kqK20047@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200106240446.f5O4kqK20047@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <01062400283802.01308@ursuper.autonomous.tv> On Saturday 23 June 2001 11:21 pm, you wrote: > All this talk of CPU heatsinks and whatnot reminded me that I wanted to get > lm_snesors up and running. Having done so, I discovered that my Athlon 1.2 > was running at a consistent 50 degrees C, with a system temp of 39 degrees. > I know Athlons are supposed to run hot, but 50? The chip isn't overclocked, > either, in case you were running. Does anyone know where I can get specs > for Athlon running temperatures? When is hot too hot? > Make sure you remembered to put thermal grease on the chip first. Also make sure the fan is centered on the chip. Often times if the fans sits askew it doesn't like to disapate heat as well. Keep the case lid on and extra fans. The hot humid days effect componensts a good deal also. So, turn off the computer and go to the beach. -- deltree c:\windows /y From ssinn at qwest.net Sun Jun 24 07:01:23 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux References: <20010620122955.578872a2.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B35D692.46016712@qwest.net> Bill Layer wrote: > > Just make sure that if you do the > overclocking bit, you add a heatsink to the CPU. A 68040 at 33MHz with a > 486 heatsink runs cooler than a 68040 at 25MHz bare. I attached mine with > a thin smear of JB Weld. > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Let me make sure I understand this... You are applying JB Weld between the processor and the heat sink? I understand the powers of JB Weld, and duct tape for that matter, but I guess I had never considered JB Welds ability to transfer heat. I know it does not conduct electricity but I wonder at what temperature it starts to break down...? From rsinland at gvtel.com Sun Jun 24 07:40:36 2001 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Calm my fears--CPU temps References: <200106240446.f5O4kqK20047@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B35DFC4.93AC2550@gvtel.com> peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > > All this talk of CPU heatsinks and whatnot reminded me that I wanted to get > lm_snesors up and running. Having done so, I discovered that my Athlon 1.2 > was running at a consistent 50 degrees C, with a system temp of 39 degrees. > I know Athlons are supposed to run hot, but 50? The chip isn't overclocked, > either, in case you were running. Does anyone know where I can get specs > for Athlon running temperatures? When is hot too hot? > :Peter > Depends, is that with your CPU at Idle or pegged at 100% for awhile? Actally just checked mine again now thats it's been running at various loads for about 45 mins and it's at 45-46c and it's a warm humid morning. I did see a page or two of temps listed at some overclocking site once, but it's been several months now. I think it was someplace on the AMD Zone. I was worried about this myself when I would let it run for days on end using Seti@home at 100%cpu. Just checked again and mine is at 49c, so sounds like your probably in the ballpark. RS From clay.fandre at bestbuy.com Sun Jun 24 08:30:54 2001 From: clay.fandre at bestbuy.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread References: Message-ID: <3B35EB8E.9CA14B83@bestbuy.com> Brian wrote: > My predicament is this: I've never used netcat. Shame on you. Netcat might possibly be the greatest tool ever written. It's so simple, yet so powerful. How many of you would be interested in an upcoming TCLUG meeting presentation about netcat? Let me know by voting on the TCLUG webpage: http://www.mn-linux.org -- Clay From andy at theasis.com Sun Jun 24 09:49:46 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPS maps and linux In-Reply-To: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A628097D@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: There are some utils at ftp://ftp.snafu.org/pub/. You may want to dig through those to see if they do what you need. Andy On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Austad, Jay wrote: > Anyone know how I can load maps onto my shiny new Garmin Legend GPS under > Linux? I'm considering purchasing the mapsource cdrom, but it's only for > windows. I read somewhere awhile back that there was a place you could > download free maps and a linux program to load them, but I can't seem to > remember where it was. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blayer at qwest.net Sun Jun 24 10:37:16 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mklinux In-Reply-To: <3B35D692.46016712@qwest.net> References: <20010620122955.578872a2.blayer@qwest.net> <3B35D692.46016712@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010624103716.62cfae7f.blayer@qwest.net> On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 07:01:23 -0500 "Spencer J Sinn" wrote: > Let me make sure I understand this... You are applying JB Weld between > the processor and the heat sink? I understand the powers of JB Weld, and > duct tape for that matter, but I guess I had never considered JB Welds > ability to transfer heat. I know it does not conduct electricity but I > wonder at what temperature it starts to break down...? JB weld is a steel-filled epoxy, and has a very high solids content. It's thermal conduction characteristics are excellent, and I know that I'm not the first person to use it to attach a heatsink. Also, I'm not too sure about your comment that it is electrically non-conudctive.. I would assume the opposite, due to the high metallic solids content. I don't think it's nearly as good a conductor as say copper, but I'd guess it's not a great insulator either. Unless data exists, this would be a worthwhile and simple experiment. As to temperature breakdown, JB is suggested for use in repairing casing cracks on internal combustion engines. I've used it several times myself in close proximity to an air-cooled motorcycle cylinder head, which can easily run over 300f degrees. Your CPU runs well under that figure. -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From troyschmidt at mn.mediaone.net Sun Jun 24 10:51:57 2001 From: troyschmidt at mn.mediaone.net (Troy Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? References: Message-ID: <003f01c0fcc5$99721000$6401a8c0@sucubus> Yes on and off again service since Thursday for me. Vadnais Heights. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew LaBerge" To: Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] slashdot down? > I don't know but I've been having Internet trouble since Friday, anyone else > have these troubles? I have AT&T Broadband. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On > Behalf Of Phil Mendelsohn > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 4:10 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] slashdot down? > > On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > Nope, it has been down since noon. > > I've noticed that much of the world is sluggish and I'm getting server > busy / missing errors on two or three different computers. I wonder if > there's backbone trouble somewhere? > > -- > "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From destef at destef.com Sun Jun 24 12:25:18 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL License question In-Reply-To: <20010623172154.A9042@squall.localdomain> References: <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> <3B260014.D2C5E21E@fandre.com> <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <200106241725.f5OHPIX14658@ernie.destef.com> I'm thinking about releasing some software I've written and using the GPL. My question is if I release it under the GPL and say 6 months down the road I've made some new enhancements and a company wants to buy the software from me. Can I (as the author) stop using the GPL on a new release and thus sell it to someone an intellectual property (and thus discontinue making updates). In other words, does the GPL forever premit even myself from selling my own GPL'ed software? Can anyone with some copyright or law experience answer this for me? Thanks, Jason From dchristian at users.sourceforge.net Sun Jun 24 13:39:13 2001 From: dchristian at users.sourceforge.net (David Christian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Compilers? (Very slightly OT) Message-ID: <20010624133913.A24455@localhost.localdomain> This is more a GNU question than a linux question, but I figure this is the right crowd to ask anyway :> I'm using GNU tools for porting a library to Solaris. This means I'm using gcc to compile the code. The clients who will be using this library are using the Solaris native compiler for their program which will be using my library. Do you guys know of any issues that arise when two object files created by different compilers are linked? Will the client's program and my library play nice together? Thanks in advance, Dave P.S. just wanted to mention that if there is a meeting about netcat I'll show up since I had barely even heard of it before this last discussion and it sounds nifty. :> So there's one vote. From sraun at fireopal.org Sun Jun 24 13:48:11 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread In-Reply-To: <3B35EB8E.9CA14B83@bestbuy.com>; from clay.fandre@bestbuy.com on Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:30:54AM -0500 References: <3B35EB8E.9CA14B83@bestbuy.com> Message-ID: <20010624134811.A18823@iaxs.net> On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:30:54AM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > Brian wrote: > > My predicament is this: I've never used netcat. > > Shame on you. Netcat might possibly be the greatest tool ever written. > It's so simple, yet so powerful. How many of you would be interested in > an upcoming TCLUG meeting presentation about netcat? Let me know by > voting on the TCLUG webpage: http://www.mn-linux.org No fair! I wanted to vote for three of your choices! I didn't care for SSH or Intro, but would always be interested in Tips & Ticks. And I'll probably be setting up my own DNS someday... -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From peter.clark at tides.com Sun Jun 24 13:33:49 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL License question Message-ID: <200106241856.f5OIuvK00792@sprite.real-time.com> --Jason DeStafano wrote--- I'm thinking about releasing some software I've written and using the GPL. My question is if I release it under the GPL and say 6 months down the road I've made some new enhancements and a company wants to buy the software from me. Can I (as the author) stop using the GPL on a new release and thus sell it to someone an intellectual property (and thus discontinue making updates). In other words, does the GPL forever premit even myself from selling my own GPL'ed software? --- First, the usual IANAL disclaimer. However, this discussion seems to come up a lot, and general concensus is as follows: Let's say that you release software FooBar v1.0 under the GPL. Then along comes BigSoftware that wants to add some features to it. As the developer, you can change the license of future derivations, so you decide that Foobar v2.0 (Foobar v1.0 + new features) will be proprietary. That's legit. *HOWEVER*, FooBar 1.0 is still GPL and cannot be changed. Thus, someone is free to come along and take the source for v1.0, add the same functionality that was included in v2.0, and release the new code as FreeFoo under the GPL. If I am not mistaken, this is what happened with ssh. The author originally licensed it under the GPL, but then licensed future versions as proprietary. Along came another programmer, took the existing GPL'd code and added the same functionality, and thus OpenSSH was born. Same story with the CDDB database. It was originally open, but then someone got greedy, decided to form a company (Gracenote) around it, and closed it off. People were more than a little ticked that something that they had developed (submitting music info) was now closed, took the last open information and formed FreeDB. Note that there is nothing about the GPL that forbids you from selling GPL'd software. RMS used to sell Emacs for $150, I think. It's just a little harder. Someone correct me if I am wrong. :Peter From jack at jacku.com Sun Jun 24 16:34:32 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread In-Reply-To: <20010624134811.A18823@iaxs.net> References: <3B35EB8E.9CA14B83@bestbuy.com> <20010624134811.A18823@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <01062416343200.02024@geezer> On Sunday 24 June 2001 13:48, you wrote: > On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:30:54AM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > > Brian wrote: > > > My predicament is this: I've never used netcat. > > > > Shame on you. Netcat might possibly be the greatest tool ever written. > > It's so simple, yet so powerful. How many of you would be interested in > > an upcoming TCLUG meeting presentation about netcat? Let me know by > > voting on the TCLUG webpage: http://www.mn-linux.org > > No fair! I wanted to vote for three of your choices! I didn't care for > SSH or Intro, but would always be interested in Tips & Ticks. And I'll > probably be setting up my own DNS someday... At the risk of be flamed by native Chicago-ins... Do it the old Cook County way, "Vote early, vote often!" ;-) Jack From jack at jacku.com Sun Jun 24 16:43:02 2001 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Anybody have experience with Catalyst or Black Hole Internet Message-ID: <01062416430201.02024@geezer> I promised the System administrator in our office in Burnsville I would ask this knowledgable collective if they know anything about the following two organizations: 1. Catalyst Technology Group 2. Black Hole Internet Catalyst has announced DSL for Burnsville (Frontier country) and their package has ISP services provided by Black Hole. (Its not the name I would have chosen.) Those of you that work for competing organizations please play nice. ;-) (If you can get us better than ISDN in Bursville, in the V between 35W and 35E let me know off list.) Thanks for any insights, Jack From patrick at hamletmachine.com Sun Jun 24 18:03:59 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Anybody have experience with Catalyst or Black Hole Internet References: <01062416430201.02024@geezer> Message-ID: <00a801c0fd01$f43c96e0$0b0110ac@hamletmachine.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Ungerleider" To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 4:43 PM Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Anybody have experience with Catalyst or Black Hole Internet > I promised the System administrator in our office in Burnsville I would ask > this knowledgable collective if they know anything about the following two > organizations: > > > 1. Catalyst Technology Group > 2. Black Hole Internet I used Black Hole for a while as a dialup provider. I had great service and their support was good; I ended up speaking to the president of the company when they didn't have a senior support person there who could answer my questions. That was several years ago now, though. From austad at marketwatch.com Sun Jun 24 18:08:07 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount shelves available locally? Message-ID: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280984@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Anyone know where I can buy rackmount shelves for a 4 post cabinet locally, for cheap? Somewhere near downtown MPLS would be preferable. Unless someone has some that they are willing to sell me. :) I need only 2 of them. Jay From jreuter at reuter-engineering.com Sun Jun 24 18:32:45 2001 From: jreuter at reuter-engineering.com (Jon V. Reuter) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rackmount shelves available locally? References: <28D1CF406CFFEE4AA7020463DE52B1A6280984@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3B36789D.C378B8E9@reuter-engineering.com> Both Mars and Guitar Center (Roseville) have rack mount shelves, drawers, etc. I don't remember specifically what they cost but they seemed reasonable. "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Anyone know where I can buy rackmount shelves for a 4 post cabinet locally, > for cheap? > > Somewhere near downtown MPLS would be preferable. Unless someone has some > that they are willing to sell me. :) I need only 2 of them. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ssinn at qwest.net Sun Jun 24 21:11:25 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] re-awakening the 'ghetto ghost' thread References: <3B35EB8E.9CA14B83@bestbuy.com> <20010624134811.A18823@iaxs.net> Message-ID: <3B369DCD.F7875B3A@qwest.net> Scott Raun wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:30:54AM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > > Brian wrote: > > > My predicament is this: I've never used netcat. > > > > Shame on you. Netcat might possibly be the greatest tool ever written. > > It's so simple, yet so powerful. How many of you would be interested in > > an upcoming TCLUG meeting presentation about netcat? Let me know by > > voting on the TCLUG webpage: http://www.mn-linux.org > > No fair! I wanted to vote for three of your choices! I didn't care for > SSH or Intro, but would always be interested in Tips & Ticks. And I'll > probably be setting up my own DNS someday... > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I agree. I like all the choices... Can the radio buttons get replaced with checkboxes? From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Mon Jun 25 06:32:34 2001 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need more help with ftape Message-ID: <004e01c0fd6a$87c29190$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Please read the following history: "Raymond Norton" wrote: > > I am new to Linux ( using RedHat 6.2) and am having a difficult time > configuring my Colorado Trakker 350. When doing "make, or make install" > using (Ftape 4.04), I get many lines of info scrolling by about entering > and leaving directories. At the end I get an error: "No Rule to make > target '/usr/src/linux/.config', needed by ftape-init.o . Stop. At the > end of everything it says make: *** [Install] error 2 Yeah, you need to configure the kernel before building it. I personally like `make xconfig', though lots of people like doing it through text menus with `make menuconfig'. However, I would think that RedHat came with the ftape module already compiled. Have you tried just doing `modprobe ftape' as root? (or is there some reason for you to compile it fresh?) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Gravity brings me down. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] I wanted to install the newest version of ftape to be sure it supported the Colorado Trakker. When I do a "modprobe ftape" I get an error, so I went to where ftape.o was located and did a "insmod ftape.o". It took it, and when I went back to root I "entered modprobe ftape.o". This time there were no errors. I am not sure what I have to do so ftape gets loaded at start up, or what I need to do next to get the Linux to see the tape drive. I would like to use the new version of ftape that I downloaded instead of what came with RedHat 6.2 From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Mon Jun 25 08:32:10 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Anybody have experience with Catalyst or Black Hole Internet In-Reply-To: <01062416430201.02024@geezer> Message-ID: We use Black-Hole here at Dart (and have for several years). We do multi-link--3 dial-ups tied together for shared bandwidth. No DSL/Cable available :( But, at least the lines are cheap in Chaska, $20/month/line. We have had good service. Never any problems from them. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti@dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 |-----Original Message----- |From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org |[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jack Ungerleider |Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 4:43 PM |To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org |Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Anybody have experience with Catalyst or Black |Hole Internet | | |I promised the System administrator in our office in Burnsville I |would ask |this knowledgable collective if they know anything about the following two |organizations: | | |1. Catalyst Technology Group |2. Black Hole Internet | |Catalyst has announced DSL for Burnsville (Frontier country) and their |package has ISP services provided by Black Hole. (Its not the name I would |have chosen.) Those of you that work for competing organizations |please play |nice. ;-) (If you can get us better than ISDN in Bursville, in the |V between |35W and 35E let me know off list.) | |Thanks for any insights, |Jack |_______________________________________________ |tclug-list mailing list |tclug-list@mn-linux.org |https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | From ssinn at qwest.net Mon Jun 25 08:40:08 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need more help with ftape References: <004e01c0fd6a$87c29190$0ad2e5cf@means.net> Message-ID: <3B373F38.59F7BFED@qwest.net> Raymond Norton wrote: > > Please read the following history: Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are asking "How do I get the ftape.o module loaded at boottime". If so, you need to edit your rc.modules file. (At least that is what it is called in Slackware. I don't remember ho Red Hat is set up). There will be a line #/sbin/modprobe/ftape Just uncomment it (remove the #), save the file and you should be good to go. There may be some parameters you need to add after this line for the tape drive you are using, but if you didn't need them before, you shouldn't need them this time. Hope this helps... > > I wanted to install the newest version of ftape to be sure it supported the > Colorado Trakker. When I do a "modprobe ftape" I get an error, so I went to > where ftape.o was located and did a "insmod ftape.o". It took it, and when I > went back to root I "entered modprobe ftape.o". This time there were no > errors. I am not sure what I have to do so ftape gets loaded at start up, or > what I need to do next to get the Linux to see the tape drive. I would like > to use the new version of ftape that I downloaded instead of what came with > RedHat 6.2 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Mon Jun 25 09:18:15 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hardware Message-ID: Over the weekend I was cleaning up my basement. In the process of doing it, I came across a whole lot of old 486 vintage stuff--3 MBs w/processors & 16-32 MB on board, a 486/100 chip, P100 chip, AMD K-6 200 chip, small HDDs, short memory sticks, ISA/VESA video & I/O cards, etc, basically everything except cases. Did anybody ever set up that hardware page that was being talked about a while back? Or, I am basically looking to give it away to anyone who could use it, or at most get a PCI video card/1-2 GB HDD for it. Feel free to contact me off-list. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti@dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Mon Jun 25 09:17:29 2001 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and Windows 2000 mount problem In-Reply-To: <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> References: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AE6C@spedi-exchange> <200106231403.f5NE3KX04660@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <15159.18425.431621.680418@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I've been able to do this. With no problem, in fact. I'm not sure why the samba package version would matter. For mounting, isn't everything important in smbfs? I'm using a patched 2.4.5 kernel now, but had been using a Redhat 6.1 with no trouble. Have you tried smbclient and mount from the shell to see what the error messages are? smbclient should give you some good information. I'll try to help if you have more specifics. R From jima at gimp.damnation.net Mon Jun 25 09:35:33 2001 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hideously OT: "Let's cut down on the subject creep, folks." Message-ID: http://www.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/comics/interactiveweek/IW026.html Okay, what does this remind you of? Yes, I realize the irony of sending this to the list...although this isn't subject creep; it was off-topic to begin with. Let this thread die. Don't reply to it. There. Now it's not my fault if this lives on. Jima From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 25 10:46:42 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hideously OT: "Let's cut down on the subject creep, folks." In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Jima wrote: > Okay, what does this remind you of? Actually, it reminds me of this entry from the Jargon file: -[SNIP]- Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful. -[SNIP]- Ok, so that's an extreme case of subject creep. And since this thread is already marked as hideously OT I don't mind continuing it. -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 25 10:49:50 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, James Spinti wrote: > Over the weekend I was cleaning up my basement. In the process of doing it, > I came across a whole lot of old 486 vintage stuff What's the status of the trading forum thingy? It looked good last time I saw, but AFAIK no accounts have been set up. -Brian From zibby at ringworld.org Mon Jun 25 10:49:50 2001 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062314260600.01846@ursuper.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: modprobe ne io=0xYYY irq=XX PCI NE2000 card however, you want ne2k-pci, and should not need to give io are irq. As soon as I get my computer function again I can get you the entry for modutils/conf.modules, though you chould be able to figure this out for yourself. It's documented...somewhere. As for unresolved symbols, what Distro, or did you compile your own package? Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Mon Jun 25 11:18:41 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ Message-ID: Is there one of these this week? http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ From jacque at fruitioninc.com Mon Jun 25 11:17:14 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yes but the place is TBD right now. ~j -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Troy.A Johnson Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:19 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ Is there one of these this week? http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Mon Jun 25 12:10:20 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital camera remote control Message-ID: <20010625121020.C18437@real-time.com> I'm considering getting a digital camera. the Canon S110 is just about everything I'm looking for, at a price that I can almost withstand. :) this may be a stupid question, but: Is there any way to remotely control a camera like this? as in plug your PC into the USB interface, and remotely tell it to take shots, like a 'webcam'? it seems like a perfectly obvious thing to do with a camera; but whether the camera designers think so, is another matter. :| Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jun 25 12:19:55 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital camera remote control In-Reply-To: <20010625121020.C18437@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Is there any way to remotely control a camera like this? as in plug your PC > into the USB interface, and remotely tell it to take shots, like a 'webcam'? All the cameras I've seen (Olympus is all we use at work) have that functionailty. it comes with a serial/USB cable (depending on the model) and you use software to control all the functions you would have if you were at the camera. A very useful feature indeed, the camera makers got that one right. I'm assuming your next question would be how it works under linux. Most of the software I've seen is for that other OS only, you may have to do some reverse engineering to get it to work under linux. I seem to remember Bill Layer playing with something like that and used grep to write a driver for his camera. -Brian From tobytoo at black-hole.com Mon Jun 25 12:20:30 2001 From: tobytoo at black-hole.com (Brian Toberman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Anybody have experience with Catalyst or Black Hole Internet Message-ID: <431320016125172030836@black-hole.com> I've used Black-Hole as my ISP for almost 2 years now, first as a dial up then as DSL, they've done a very good job for me, I've even gotten a real tech when calling in at 11:30 pm on a Saturday. From foeclan at winternet.com Mon Jun 25 12:20:35 2001 From: foeclan at winternet.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital camera remote control In-Reply-To: <20010625121020.C18437@real-time.com> Message-ID: gPhoto has this functionality for some cameras. There's a 'Take Picture' option that you use. Whether the Canon S110 can do it, though, I'm uncertain. My Kodak DC280 doesn't like it, and gPhoto crashes. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Winternet.Com On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I'm considering getting a digital camera. the Canon S110 is just about > everything I'm looking for, at a price that I can almost withstand. :) > > this may be a stupid question, but: > Is there any way to remotely control a camera like this? as in plug your PC > into the USB interface, and remotely tell it to take shots, like a 'webcam'? > it seems like a perfectly obvious thing to do with a camera; but whether the > camera designers think so, is another matter. :| > > Carl Soderstrom > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chrome at real-time.com Mon Jun 25 12:27:58 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ In-Reply-To: ; from jacque@fruitioninc.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:17:14AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010625122758.D18437@real-time.com> > yes but the place is TBD right now. TBD = To Be Disturbed? sounds like a great place to go. we're pretty disturbing people at times. ;> Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From jstauffer at spscommerce.com Mon Jun 25 12:31:39 2001 From: jstauffer at spscommerce.com (James Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Matrox G450: Can't change from Large Fonts to Small Fonts Message-ID: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AF82@spedi-exchange> This morning when I rebooted, my Matrox G450 wasn't giving me my spanned display, so I had to play with the settings a bit to get it to work. Now it won't let me use the Small Font Size. It allows me to choose it and reboot, but it starts up with the Large Font Size. I tried changing the font size through both Matrox Display Properties and normal Display Properties. I tried reinstalling the drivers. Any suggestions? o o o o o o o . . . __________________________ ______=======_||___ o _____ | James A. N. Stauffer | | JStauffer@ | .][__n_n_|DD[ ====____ | Spam food: uce@ftc.gov | | SPSCommerce.com | >(________|__|_[________]_|________________________|_|_________________| _/oo OOOOO oo` ooo ooo 'o?o?o o?o?o` 'o?o o?o` -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010625/7a97b16d/attachment.html From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 25 13:03:41 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010625130341.37e9f4fd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Matthew LaBerge" wrote: > > I don't know but I've been having Internet trouble since Friday, anyone > else have these troubles? I have AT&T Broadband. Bah.. My apartment building's gateway went down in the wee hours of Saturday morning. Of course, it didn't get fixed until this morning.. It wasn't working when I left for work (8:30), and I was surprised at work (U of MN) to find that the Big Gateway there was having trouble routing to the regular Internet (though many .edu sites were still accessible, but slowed down). Kinda weird.. I almost wonder if someone found something nasty to do to Cisco routers.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If it happens, it must be / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ possible. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010625/d23bb614/attachment.pgp From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Jun 25 13:38:29 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital camera remote control References: Message-ID: <3B378525.3652BE30@structural-wood.com> Oddly enough, the last time I tried remotely taking a picture with gPhoto and my Kodak DC280 it worked just fine. Michael Vieths wrote: > > gPhoto has this functionality for some cameras. There's a 'Take Picture' > option that you use. > > Whether the Canon S110 can do it, though, I'm uncertain. My Kodak DC280 > doesn't like it, and gPhoto crashes. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Winternet.Com > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > I'm considering getting a digital camera. the Canon S110 is just about > > everything I'm looking for, at a price that I can almost withstand. :) > > > > this may be a stupid question, but: > > Is there any way to remotely control a camera like this? as in plug your PC > > into the USB interface, and remotely tell it to take shots, like a 'webcam'? > > it seems like a perfectly obvious thing to do with a camera; but whether the > > camera designers think so, is another matter. :| > > > > Carl Soderstrom From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Mon Jun 25 14:13:53 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GPL License question In-Reply-To: <200106241856.f5OIuvK00792@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: There's the other issue that Foo 1.0 can exist under multiple licenses. You *could* re-assign the BSD or another license to Foo 1.0 and use that when working with another entity (whether that is public or not). That doesn't change the fact that Foo 1.0 also exists under the GPL so that may give other people other rights. You'd have to go do contract law to see which licenses would apply to entities that may be crosslicensed. Josh __SIG__ On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > --Jason DeStafano wrote--- > I'm thinking about releasing some software I've written > and using the GPL. My question is if I release it under the > GPL and say 6 months down the road I've made some > new enhancements and a company wants to buy the software > from me. Can I (as the author) stop using the GPL on a new > release and thus sell it to someone an intellectual property > (and thus discontinue making updates). In other words, does > the GPL forever premit even myself from selling my own > GPL'ed software? > --- > First, the usual IANAL disclaimer. However, this discussion seems to > come up a lot, and general concensus is as follows: > Let's say that you release software FooBar v1.0 under the GPL. Then > along comes BigSoftware that wants to add some features to it. As the > developer, you can change the license of future derivations, so you > decide that Foobar v2.0 (Foobar v1.0 + new features) will be > proprietary. That's legit. *HOWEVER*, FooBar 1.0 is still GPL and cannot > be changed. Thus, someone is free to come along and take the source for > v1.0, add the same functionality that was included in v2.0, and release > the new code as FreeFoo under the GPL. > If I am not mistaken, this is what happened with ssh. The author > originally licensed it under the GPL, but then licensed future versions > as proprietary. Along came another programmer, took the existing GPL'd > code and added the same functionality, and thus OpenSSH was born. > Same story with the CDDB database. It was originally open, but then > someone got greedy, decided to form a company (Gracenote) around it, and > closed it off. People were more than a little ticked that something that > they had developed (submitting music info) was now closed, took the last > open information and formed FreeDB. > Note that there is nothing about the GPL that forbids you from > selling GPL'd software. RMS used to sell Emacs for $150, I think. It's > just a little harder. > Someone correct me if I am wrong. > :Peter > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From spencer at sihope.com Mon Jun 25 14:11:17 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer underground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01062514111703.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> On Monday 25 June 2001 10:49 am, you wrote: > modprobe ne io=0xYYY irq=XX I have tried this option with serveral times to no avail. Maybe my syntax was incorrect. > PCI NE2000 card however, you want ne2k-pci, and should not need to give io The card is an ISA type that porports to be plug n play. I have a few of them I took out of various machines. Oddly enough I am having trouble getting the same card to work in win98se as well. I do not want to beleive that I have three identical problem nic's. I suppose I should just invest my $15 in a realtek 8139. But what about all the future NE2000 nics I will run across? > are irq. As soon as I get my computer function again I can get you the > entry for modutils/conf.modules, though you chould be able to figure this > out for yourself. It's documented...somewhere. > > As for unresolved symbols, what Distro, or did you compile your own > package? The distro is RH7.1. -- whois microsoft.com From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 25 14:27:10 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062514111703.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> Message-ID: I'd try the becker config tools and make sure that the card is in fact set to the IRQ / Base address you want. I had some 3c509's that I *thought* were solid, but in fact needed a little massaging. They are with all of becker's other stuff, once at CESDIS (NASA), but now at his new page somewhere at scyld.com. Google can help you with the particulars. I suggest this primarily becuase the Kingston ne2000 cards are mentioned *particularly* as easy to get working (with the right tools.) If that's not enough too get going, I'll dig around and find out which computer has the damnable bookmarks file. :) On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, spencer underground wrote: > On Monday 25 June 2001 10:49 am, you wrote: > > modprobe ne io=0xYYY irq=XX > > I have tried this option with serveral times to no avail. Maybe my syntax was > incorrect. > > > PCI NE2000 card however, you want ne2k-pci, and should not need to give io > > The card is an ISA type that porports to be plug n play. I have a few of them > I took out of various machines. Oddly enough I am having trouble getting the > same card to work in win98se as well. I do not want to beleive that I have > three identical problem nic's. I suppose I should just invest my $15 in a > realtek 8139. But what about all the future NE2000 nics I will run across? > > > are irq. As soon as I get my computer function again I can get you the > > entry for modutils/conf.modules, though you chould be able to figure this > > out for yourself. It's documented...somewhere. > > > > As for unresolved symbols, what Distro, or did you compile your own > > package? > > The distro is RH7.1. > > > -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From florin at iucha.net Mon Jun 25 14:36:57 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062514111703.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com>; from spencer@sihope.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 02:11:17PM -0500 References: <01062514111703.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> Message-ID: <20010625143657.A8007@beaver.iucha.org> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 02:11:17PM -0500, spencer underground wrote: > On Monday 25 June 2001 10:49 am, you wrote: > > modprobe ne io=0xYYY irq=XX > > I have tried this option with serveral times to no avail. Maybe my syntax was > incorrect. > > > PCI NE2000 card however, you want ne2k-pci, and should not need to give io > > The card is an ISA type that porports to be plug n play. I have a few of them > I took out of various machines. Oddly enough I am having trouble getting the > same card to work in win98se as well. I do not want to beleive that I have > three identical problem nic's. I suppose I should just invest my $15 in a > realtek 8139. But what about all the future NE2000 nics I will run across? ISA NE2000 can mean a lot of things... I have NE2Ks with jumpers, with soft programming and PNP. 1. if you have any jumpers on the board, read all the board maybe you find a table with the jumpers 2. look at the biggest chip on the board and do internet searches with substrings of the chip code. Chances are, you will find a DOS program for setting up the IO and IRQ 2.1 alternatively try to insmod ne2k specifying ports between 0x280 and 0x360 3. run pnpdump from isapnp package and see what it discovers. then enable PNP and ISAPNP in kernel (if you use 2.4) florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From spencer at sihope.com Mon Jun 25 14:48:40 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer underground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <20010625143657.A8007@beaver.iucha.org> References: <01062514111703.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> <20010625143657.A8007@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <01062514484005.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> > > 1. if you have any jumpers on the board, read all the board maybe you find > a table with the jumpers Unfortunately there are no jumpers. > > 2. look at the biggest chip on the board and do internet searches with > substrings of the chip code. Chances are, you will find a DOS program for > setting up the IO and IRQ Do I really want to use a dos utility? This is of coarse related to the thread of linux and kids software, because the win machine is only for my kids. So the only reason I am trying to deal with monkeysoft if for kids games. > 2.1 alternatively try to insmod ne2k specifying ports between 0x280 and > 0x360 I think I was using variations of IO= I/O= i/o i/o= and with ranges of 0x300 and irq's like 2 9 and 5. I was getting frustrated so maybe I just need to use the correct syntax and thats that. I have a feeling that it is an obvious problem that I am overlooking. > > 3. run pnpdump from isapnp package and see what it discovers. then enable > PNP and ISAPNP in kernel (if you use 2.4) I did install the isapnp package but have yet to use it. If it was only a sound card I could work on it from work. Now you guys are contributing to me skipping work to go home and get this nic up. Thanks; really. -- whois microsoft.com From joel at luths.net Mon Jun 25 15:59:54 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Calm my fears--CPU temps In-Reply-To: <3B35DFC4.93AC2550@gvtel.com> References: <200106240446.f5O4kqK20047@sprite.real-time.com> <3B35DFC4.93AC2550@gvtel.com> Message-ID: <993502794.3b37a64ae7f09@www.luths.net> My Celeron 433 runs at ~50degC in the summer, with SETI@home running. Cheapo case (only PS fan) and CPU cooler (don't recall specifics, haven't been in there in a while). Ran about 5degC hotter when I bumped the FSB to 75MHz. Been running nearly 24/7 like that (66 FSB) for ~1-1/2 years without problems. Well, no problems that I can pin on hardware anyway. Quoting Robert Sinland : > > > peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > > > > All this talk of CPU heatsinks and whatnot reminded me that I wanted > to get > > lm_snesors up and running. Having done so, I discovered that my Athlon > 1.2 > > was running at a consistent 50 degrees C, with a system temp of 39 > degrees. > > I know Athlons are supposed to run hot, but 50? The chip isn't > overclocked, > > either, in case you were running. Does anyone know where I can get > specs > > for Athlon running temperatures? When is hot too hot? > > :Peter > > > Depends, is that with your CPU at Idle or pegged at 100% for awhile? > Actally just checked mine again now thats it's been running at various > loads for about 45 mins and it's at 45-46c and it's a warm humid > morning. > I did see a page or two of temps listed at some overclocking site once, > but it's been several months now. I think it was someplace on the AMD > Zone. > I was worried about this myself when I would let it run for days on > end > using Seti@home at 100%cpu. Just checked again and mine is at 49c, so > sounds > like your probably in the ballpark. > RS > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From florin at iucha.net Mon Jun 25 15:57:12 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062514484005.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com>; from spencer@sihope.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 02:48:40PM -0500 References: <01062514111703.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> <20010625143657.A8007@beaver.iucha.org> <01062514484005.13947@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> Message-ID: <20010625155712.A29885@beaver.iucha.org> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 02:48:40PM -0500, spencer underground wrote: > > > > > 2. look at the biggest chip on the board and do internet searches with > > substrings of the chip code. Chances are, you will find a DOS program for > > setting up the IO and IRQ > > Do I really want to use a dos utility? This is of coarse related to the > thread of linux and kids software, because the win machine is only for my > kids. So the only reason I am trying to deal with monkeysoft if for kids > games. It's not that you like it or not: if the manufacturer provided [only] a dos configuration utility and you want to configure the darn board... what gives? > > 2.1 alternatively try to insmod ne2k specifying ports between 0x280 and > > 0x360 > I think I was using variations of IO= I/O= i/o i/o= and with ranges of > 0x300 and irq's like 2 9 and 5. I was getting frustrated so maybe I just need > to use the correct syntax and thats that. I have a feeling that it is an > obvious problem that I am overlooking. Don't bother with the IRQ. once you get hte I/O straight, it will automagically get the IRQ. > > 3. run pnpdump from isapnp package and see what it discovers. then enable > > PNP and ISAPNP in kernel (if you use 2.4) > > I did install the isapnp package but have yet to use it. > If it was only a sound card I could work on it from work. Now you guys are > contributing to me skipping work to go home and get this nic up. > Thanks; really. Run pnpdump and look at the output... florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 25 16:05:34 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <20010625155712.A29885@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 02:48:40PM -0500, spencer underground wrote: > > > > Do I really want to use a dos utility? This is of coarse related to the > > thread of linux and kids software, because the win machine is only for my > > kids. So the only reason I am trying to deal with monkeysoft if for kids > > games. > > It's not that you like it or not: if the manufacturer provided [only] a dos > configuration utility and you want to configure the darn board... what gives? Donald Becker. http://www.scyld.com/diag (I found the bookmarks.) For goodness sake -- don't use DOS! ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From seg at haxxed.com Mon Jun 25 21:11:41 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hardware References: Message-ID: <3B37EF5D.5AC8BB24@haxxed.com> Brian wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, James Spinti wrote: > > > Over the weekend I was cleaning up my basement. In the process of doing it, > > I came across a whole lot of old 486 vintage stuff > > What's the status of the trading forum thingy? It looked good last time I > saw, but AFAIK no accounts have been set up. Certain... other projects have been proving to be far more entertaining. Heh. I'll Work On It Tonight, Really... From seg at haxxed.com Mon Jun 25 21:12:16 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hideously OT: "Let's cut down on the subject creep, folks." References: Message-ID: <3B37EF80.1E7976D2@haxxed.com> Jima wrote: > > http://www.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/comics/interactiveweek/IW026.html > > Okay, what does this remind you of? > Yes, I realize the irony of sending this to the list...although this > isn't subject creep; it was off-topic to begin with. > Let this thread die. Don't reply to it. > There. Now it's not my fault if this lives on. I like muffins. Especially blueberry. From gabe at msi.umn.edu Mon Jun 25 21:21:29 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slashdot down? In-Reply-To: <20010625130341.37e9f4fd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 01:03:41PM -0500 References: <20010625130341.37e9f4fd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010625212129.A16715@squall.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 01:03:41PM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > "Matthew LaBerge" wrote: > > > > I don't know but I've been having Internet trouble since Friday, anyone > > else have these troubles? I have AT&T Broadband. > > Bah.. My apartment building's gateway went down in the wee hours of > Saturday morning. Of course, it didn't get fixed until this morning.. It > wasn't working when I left for work (8:30), and I was surprised at work (U > of MN) to find that the Big Gateway there was having trouble routing to > the regular Internet (though many .edu sites were still accessible, but > slowed down). I can't recall what brought tc1 down, but the reason you could connect to .edus is because they're accessible via Internet 2. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From spencer at sihope.com Mon Jun 25 11:14:10 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv> > > > > It's not that you like it or not: if the manufacturer provided [only] a > > dos configuration utility and you want to configure the darn board... > > what gives? > > Donald Becker. http://www.scyld.com/diag (I found the bookmarks.) For > goodness sake -- don't use DOS! ;) Wheew! The netk-diag utility worked very well. This is for the nic set to io=0x240 Checking the ethercard at 0x240. Receive alignment error counter (0x24d) is ff Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 24 24 a5 a5 df df 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x240, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 00:C0:F0:24:A5:DF. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 9 (enabled, I/O address 0x3c0, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 9, I/O address 0x3c0, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. This is for the nic set to io=0x340 Checking the ethercard at 0x340. Receive alignment error counter (0x34d) is a5 Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 44 44 58 58 28 28 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x340, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 52:94:CC:6B:AA:FA. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 5 (enabled, I/O address 0x340, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 5, I/O address 0x340, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. I have three identical cards (only two slots) so what am I to do. The only thing is I have only been able to use one at a time. If I do /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x240 then that nic will work. /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x340 and that one is free. I have yet to find the place in the init scripts to load the io params. I add it to the /etc/modules.conf, but that did no good. I am very pleased to get the nic running under Linux. What a real operating system! I should probably attend a meeting or something on netcat to fully take advantage of my new router/gw. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y whois microsoft.com -------------- next part -------------- Checking the ethercard at 0x240. Receive alignment error counter (0x24d) is ff Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 24 24 a5 a5 df df 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x240, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 00:C0:F0:24:A5:DF. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 9 (enabled, I/O address 0x3c0, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 9, I/O address 0x3c0, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. -------------- next part -------------- Checking the ethercard at 0x340. Receive alignment error counter (0x34d) is a5 Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 44 44 58 58 28 28 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x340, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 52:94:CC:6B:AA:FA. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 5 (enabled, I/O address 0x340, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 5, I/O address 0x340, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jun 25 23:28:25 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv> References: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20010625232825.6cc485d7.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> AAAunderground wrote: > > I have three identical cards (only two slots) so what am I to do. The > only thing is I have only been able to use one at a time. If I do > /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x240 > then that nic will work. > /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x340 > and that one is free. Hmm.. I think you get multiple cards going by doing something like /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x240,0x340 -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I like to reminisce with / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ people I don't know. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010625/0346f8ed/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Mon Jun 25 23:30:34 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv>; from spencer@sihope.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:14:10AM -0500 References: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20010625233034.A19321@beaver.iucha.org> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:14:10AM -0500, AAAunderground wrote: > > I have three identical cards (only two slots) so what am I to do. The only > thing is I have only been able to use one at a time. If I do > /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x240 > then that nic will work. > /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x340 > and that one is free. > I have yet to find the place in the init scripts to load the io params. I add > it to the /etc/modules.conf, but that did no good. I am very pleased to get > the nic running under Linux. What a real operating system! I should probably > attend a meeting or something on netcat to fully take advantage of my new > router/gw. You should use something like this: alias eth0 ne io=0x240 alias eth1 ne io=0x240 florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From spencer at sihope.com Mon Jun 25 10:59:13 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01062510591300.01005@red.autonomous.tv> > > > > It's not that you like it or not: if the manufacturer provided [only] a > > dos configuration utility and you want to configure the darn board... > > what gives? > > Donald Becker. http://www.scyld.com/diag (I found the bookmarks.) For > goodness sake -- don't use DOS! ;) Wheew! The netk-diag utility worked very well. This is for the nic set to io=0x240 Checking the ethercard at 0x240. Receive alignment error counter (0x24d) is ff Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 24 24 a5 a5 df df 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x240, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 00:C0:F0:24:A5:DF. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 9 (enabled, I/O address 0x3c0, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 9, I/O address 0x3c0, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. This is for the nic set to io=0x340 Checking the ethercard at 0x340. Receive alignment error counter (0x34d) is a5 Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 44 44 58 58 28 28 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x340, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 52:94:CC:6B:AA:FA. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 5 (enabled, I/O address 0x340, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 5, I/O address 0x340, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. I have three identical cards (only two slots) so what am I to do. The only thing is I have only been able to use one at a time. If I do /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x240 then that nic will work. /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x340 and that one is free. I have yet to find the place in the init scripts to load the io params. I add it to the /etc/modules.conf, but that did no good. I am very pleased to get the nic running under Linux. What a real operating system! I should probably attend a meeting or something on netcat to fully take advantage of my new router/gw. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y whois microsoft.com -------------- next part -------------- Checking the ethercard at 0x240. Receive alignment error counter (0x24d) is ff Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 24 24 a5 a5 df df 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x240, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 00:C0:F0:24:A5:DF. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 9 (enabled, I/O address 0x3c0, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 9, I/O address 0x3c0, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. -------------- next part -------------- Checking the ethercard at 0x340. Receive alignment error counter (0x34d) is a5 Passed initial NE2000 probe, value 00. Station Address PROM 0: 00 00 c0 c0 f0 f0 44 44 58 58 28 28 20 20 20 20 Station Address PROM 0x10: 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 03 03 57 57 57 57 NE2000 found at 0x340, using start page 0x40 and end page 0x80. The current MAC stations address is 52:94:CC:6B:AA:FA. This is a RTL8019AS chip in jumperless mode. The current settings are: IRQ 5 (enabled, I/O address 0x340, The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. The EEPROM settings are: IRQ 5, I/O address 0x340, non-PnP mode. The transceiver is set to 10baseT or coax, selected on 10baseT link beat, The chip is set to half duplex. From spencer at sihope.com Mon Jun 25 11:54:47 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <20010625233034.A19321@beaver.iucha.org> References: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv> <20010625233034.A19321@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <01062511544705.01005@red.autonomous.tv> alias eth0 ne io=0x240 > alias eth1 ne io=0x240 Even though I don't understand why I wouldn't use 340 I tried 240 twice and that did not work. Hmm.. I think you get multiple cards going by doing something like /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x240,0x340 That did not change a thing. It is late. One out of two is not bad. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 26 03:08:54 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Caldera -is- a parasite Message-ID: <20010626030854.A29480@real-time.com> I totally agree with Stallman now. Caldera is a parasite. http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-25-006-20-PS -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From ssinn at qwest.net Tue Jun 26 08:23:16 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Caldera -is- a parasite References: <20010626030854.A29480@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B388CC4.A2EDAEAB@qwest.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > > I totally agree with Stallman now. Caldera is a parasite. > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-25-006-20-PS > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list In all fairness to Caldera (who have a foofoo-kaka dist BTW) the article doesn't mention them charging for the licenses. They, Caldera, may just be trying to gather information/statistics on how many people are using their software (like the linux counter project). They may have to track their distribution of non-GPL'ed software as well (Caldera Workstation ships with Borland JBuilder, Star Office etc). If they are paying for or getting paid for bundling software into their dist, you can be very sure they will want to track that software. Caldera is a parasite, as are most companies (Apple) that latch on to linux/OSS(Stormix). They bundle a trailing-edge distro, value-add some office-type software, dump a million in marketing dollars into it and say they are *helping the community*. They are business people who look at people as consumers, and IMHO that is what is at the heart of the GPL: that people are intelligent, sentient beings that make intelligent, informed choices and know how to share. Unfortunately, as the Technical Divide widens, these parasitic, DIFY companies are going to gain more and more ground. From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 26 10:26:02 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062511544705.01005@red.autonomous.tv>; from spencer@sihope.com on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:54:47AM -0500 References: <01062511141004.01005@red.autonomous.tv> <20010625233034.A19321@beaver.iucha.org> <01062511544705.01005@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20010626102602.A9209@beaver.iucha.org> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:54:47AM -0500, AAAunderground wrote: > > alias eth0 ne io=0x240 > > alias eth1 ne io=0x240 > Even though I don't understand why I wouldn't use 340 I tried 240 twice and > that did not work. Now, I don't understant it either :(... Sorry for the wrong info. From spencer at sihope.com Mon Jun 25 22:54:54 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <20010626102602.A9209@beaver.iucha.org> References: <01062511544705.01005@red.autonomous.tv> <20010626102602.A9209@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <01062522545407.01005@red.autonomous.tv> On Tuesday 26 June 2001 10:26 am, you wrote: > On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:54:47AM -0500, AAAunderground wrote: > > alias eth0 ne io=0x240 > > > > > alias eth1 ne io=0x240 > > > > Even though I don't understand why I wouldn't use 340 I tried 240 twice > > and that did not work. > > Now, I don't understant it either :(... Sorry for the wrong info. > > From now on I will refrain giving hardware-related advice after 11 pm. > > alias eth0 ne io=0x240 > alias eth1 ne io=0x340 > > florin /etc/modules.conf alias parport_lowlevel parport_pc alias usb-controller usb-uhci alias eth0 ne io=0x240 alias eth1 ne io=0x340 options ne io=0x240 irq=9 options ne io=0x340 irq=5 I have tried various combinations of this. I added the irq's for fun. I have also rm the ifcf-eth1 from the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts folder and created a new one. Linux keeps telling me that it is delaying initialization. I know both cards work. They must have a complex about working together. Maybe they just need a motivational speech or something. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y whois microsoft.com -------------- next part -------------- alias parport_lowlevel parport_pc alias usb-controller usb-uhci alias eth0 ne io=0x240 alias eth1 ne io=0x340 options ne io=0x240 irq=9 options ne io=0x340 irq=5 From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 26 11:04:14 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Kingston KNE20T In-Reply-To: <01062522545407.01005@red.autonomous.tv> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, AAAunderground wrote: > I have tried various combinations of this. I added the irq's for fun. > I have also rm the ifcf-eth1 from the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts folder > and created a new one. > Linux keeps telling me that it is delaying initialization. I know both cards > work. They must have a complex about working together. Maybe they just need a > motivational speech or something. You might look at the boot params info (HOWTO?) and see about telling the kernel how to find eth1 there. There's something about reserving an I/O address. Sorry to be vague. Stick with it -- you *will* be able to get it to work (98% sure). -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue Jun 26 11:58:54 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Caldera -is- a parasite References: <20010626030854.A29480@real-time.com> <3B388CC4.A2EDAEAB@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B38BF34.157212C4@eetc.com> Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > In all fairness to Caldera (who have a foofoo-kaka dist BTW) the article > doesn't mention them charging for the licenses. They, Caldera, may just > be trying to gather information/statistics on how many people are using > their software (like the linux counter project). They may have to track > their distribution of non-GPL'ed software as well (Caldera Workstation > ships with Borland JBuilder, Star Office etc). If they are paying for or > getting paid for bundling software into their dist, you can be very sure > they will want to track that software. > Caldera is a parasite, as are most companies (Apple) that latch on to > linux/OSS(Stormix). They bundle a trailing-edge distro, value-add some > office-type software, dump a million in marketing dollars into it and > say they are *helping the community*. They are business people who look > at people as consumers, and IMHO that is what is at the heart of the > GPL: that people are intelligent, sentient beings that make intelligent, > informed choices and know how to share. > Unfortunately, as the Technical Divide widens, these parasitic, DIFY > companies are going to gain more and more ground. > OOOOOO0oooooh! You done it now Spenc. What exactly do you mean? Apple is BSD (OS X). Thats a different beast all together. As far as I know Apple has nothing nor ever has had anything to do with Linux. I agree that companies that simply get old technology and put in some sort of Office suite are a kind of parasite. A waiste of everyones time and a delay in the advancement of technology. A sore on the buttocks of humanity. But what does that have to do with Apple? If you mean they took an old OS (*nix/BSD) and simply slapped a really cool GUI over the top then I would have to strongly disagree. I will not state the reasons why at this point because I am still not sure what you are talking about. Please explain what you mean..... sim Sorry everyone. I tried not to respond to this but I couldn't help myself. I'll go now. From cargods at anubis.network.com Tue Jun 26 12:58:34 2001 From: cargods at anubis.network.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations Message-ID: <200106261758.MAA15847@rainier.network.com> I'm finally in a position to buy a new system (from scratch, not just upgrading parts of my old system). I have seen low prices from mainstream vendors (Dell, Gateway, HP, IBM) in the papers and Sunday supplements. I haven't priced local outlets lately (General Nanosystems, Tran Micro, etc.). I'm looking to spend between $800 - $1200. Ideally I would like something that runs Windows and Linux and both OSes can use all the hardware. It's for home use, but I'd like something with at least 256MB of memory; 20GB to 60GB of disk; DVD and CD-RW; some reasonable kind of sound card; ethernet; pretty good video card. Oh, yeah. A 1GHz processor. Where would you (anybody) recommend getting a system like this. (It could come with Windows preinstalled; I've installed Linux on my own PCs before.) David S. Cargo (cargods@network.com) From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 26 13:27:11 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <200106261758.MAA15847@rainier.network.com>; from cargods@anubis.network.com on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:58:34PM -0500 References: <200106261758.MAA15847@rainier.network.com> Message-ID: <20010626132710.A6542@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:58:34PM -0500, David S. Cargo wrote: > I'm finally in a position to buy a new system (from scratch, not > just upgrading parts of my old system). > > I have seen low prices from mainstream vendors (Dell, Gateway, HP, IBM) > in the papers and Sunday supplements. I haven't priced local outlets > lately (General Nanosystems, Tran Micro, etc.). > > I'm looking to spend between $800 - $1200. Ideally I would like something > that runs Windows and Linux and both OSes can use all the hardware. > > It's for home use, but I'd like something with at least 256MB of memory; > 20GB to 60GB of disk; DVD and CD-RW; some reasonable kind of sound card; > ethernet; pretty good video card. Oh, yeah. A 1GHz processor. > > Where would you (anybody) recommend getting a system like this. (It could > come with Windows preinstalled; I've installed Linux on my own PCs before.) > Here is a good starting point: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/theguide/value_game_pc/ florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jun 26 13:43:24 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: <200106261758.MAA15847@rainier.network.com> <20010626132710.A6542@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <00d101c0fe6f$e228bf00$3028680a@tgt.com> I would recommend TranMicro. I built a friend of mine a computer about 6 months ago for about $1400 after tax. Case 400W power supply. AMD Athlon 200MHz FSB 1000GHz CPU 64MB DDR GeForce 2 (Creative) Sound Blaster Live Gamer Teac CDRW 8x Pioneer DVD 12x ASUS K7T Motherboard 256MB Micron PC133 These guys put the computer together right in front of us in about 15 minutes or so. I fully expected to be doing that myself. I think they beat General Nanosystems for both selection, ability to browse and overall friendliness. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Florin Iucha" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New system recommendations > On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:58:34PM -0500, David S. Cargo wrote: > > I'm finally in a position to buy a new system (from scratch, not > > just upgrading parts of my old system). > > > > I have seen low prices from mainstream vendors (Dell, Gateway, HP, IBM) > > in the papers and Sunday supplements. I haven't priced local outlets > > lately (General Nanosystems, Tran Micro, etc.). > > > > I'm looking to spend between $800 - $1200. Ideally I would like something > > that runs Windows and Linux and both OSes can use all the hardware. > > > > It's for home use, but I'd like something with at least 256MB of memory; > > 20GB to 60GB of disk; DVD and CD-RW; some reasonable kind of sound card; > > ethernet; pretty good video card. Oh, yeah. A 1GHz processor. > > > > Where would you (anybody) recommend getting a system like this. (It could > > come with Windows preinstalled; I've installed Linux on my own PCs before.) > > > > Here is a good starting point: > http://www.sharkyextreme.com/theguide/value_game_pc/ > > florin > > -- > > "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Phillip.J.Crump at WellsFargo.COM Tue Jun 26 13:49:15 2001 From: Phillip.J.Crump at WellsFargo.COM (Phillip.J.Crump@WellsFargo.COM) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor Message-ID: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05CCDAA6@msgmsp15.norwest.com> I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one for sale??? - Phillip From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 26 14:08:30 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian/SID and PAM breakage? Message-ID: <993582510.3b38ddaee2d80@dragon> Hey, Anyone running Debian/SID do a dist-upgrade since last night? I did and it seems to have broken PAM (ie, can't login to the box anymore. Well, I can, but I have to cheat). auth.log says something about not being able to load /lib/security/pam_unix.so, and that that library is corrupt. I'm hoping this'll fix itself after a dist-upgrade tomorrow, just wondering if this happened to anyone else. -Yaron -- From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue Jun 26 14:11:33 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: <200106261758.MAA15847@rainier.network.com> <20010626132710.A6542@beaver.iucha.org> <00d101c0fe6f$e228bf00$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <3B38DE3C.D34930F1@eetc.com> I have got to try this place out. Sounds really cool. "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > I would recommend TranMicro. > > I built a friend of mine a computer about 6 months ago for about $1400 after > tax. > > Case 400W power supply. > AMD Athlon 200MHz FSB 1000GHz CPU > 64MB DDR GeForce 2 (Creative) > Sound Blaster Live Gamer > Teac CDRW 8x > Pioneer DVD 12x > ASUS K7T Motherboard > 256MB Micron PC133 > > These guys put the computer together right in front of us in about 15 > minutes or so. I fully expected to be doing that myself. I think they beat > General Nanosystems for both selection, ability to browse and overall > friendliness. sim From dhanson2 at uswest.net Tue Jun 26 14:15:36 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor References: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05CCDAA6@msgmsp15.norwest.com> Message-ID: <006801c0fe74$615166c0$eaaf7a81@doug> Let me check @ home, I'll post this evening during my beer time Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor > I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one for > sale??? > > - Phillip > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue Jun 26 14:47:19 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor References: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05CCDAA6@msgmsp15.norwest.com> Message-ID: <3B38E69A.69BBB63F@eetc.com> My bro might. He had some nice NEC ones but they may be all gone. I'll check with him tonight also. Phillip.J.Crump@WellsFargo.COM wrote: > I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one for > sale??? sim From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jun 26 15:01:29 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <00d101c0fe6f$e228bf00$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:43:24PM -0500 References: <200106261758.MAA15847@rainier.network.com> <20010626132710.A6542@beaver.iucha.org> <00d101c0fe6f$e228bf00$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> > These guys put the computer together right in front of us in about 15 > minutes or so. I fully expected to be doing that myself. I think they beat > General Nanosystems for both selection, ability to browse and overall > friendliness. Tran Micro rocks. Much friendlier atmosphere than General Nano. You may be able to buy stuff cheaper online; but I personally still like to see what I'm buying, before I put money down for it. Plus, I don't have to pay shipping. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jun 26 15:12:50 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Plus, I don't have to pay shipping. :) ...but you do have to pay 6.5% sales tax. On $1400, that's $91, which I'm sure you could get (overnight) shipping for. It evens out. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Tue Jun 26 15:19:19 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> Message-ID: I've been refering people to tran micro for quite some time now. Of the people that I referred, about 15 or so bought their machines there and all of them have been satisfied 100%. I have personally built 6 machines with them and have had no problems. Sure you can get it cheaper on line, but then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you get exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing anything anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. The only time I don't buy it there is when they don't carry it. I'm sounding like a comercial here.... Colin Kilbane From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jun 26 15:35:40 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993587740.3b38f21c0cf81@dragon> Hi, Quoting Colin Kilbane : > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you > get exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing anything > anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. Ok, time to chime in... First off, I like TranMicro too. They're much nicer and friendlier than GNS, have a bettre presentation, and a nursary! However, they do on occasion "pull a GNS", as I call it. For instance, I bought a MBoard from them that was just NOT working right under Linux, but since it was not physically broken they wanted to charge me a 15% restocking fee. We worked around it, since they are open to negotiations, but still, it happens. I did end up with a system I'm not 100% happy with (stuck with a Slot-A rather than Socket-A). -Yaron -- From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Jun 26 15:41:04 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: Message-ID: <3B38F360.350263C6@structural-wood.com> Colin Kilbane wrote: > > I've been refering people to tran micro for quite some time now. Of the > people that I referred, about 15 or so bought their machines there and all > of them have been satisfied 100%. I have personally built 6 machines with > them and have had no problems. Sure you can get it cheaper on line, but > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you get > exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing anything > anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. The only time I don't buy it > there is when they don't carry it. I'm sounding like a comercial here.... > > Colin Kilbane > I've bought a lot of systems and parts from both General Nano and Tran. I'm completely satisfied with both of them. I generally decide on one or the other depending on cost of the system and what I need in the system. From reply at battleboard.org Tue Jun 26 15:55:50 2001 From: reply at battleboard.org (Auto Experts) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hey, they're talking about your car Message-ID: <200106262055.f5QKt7s01994@esus.mc.mpls.visi.com> Have you ever wondered what others think about your car? Have you ever had something to say about someone else's automobile? Did you know there is a new website where you can do both of these freely and openly? Come visit us at the Battle Board. http://www.battleboard.org Flame Away!!! http://www.battleboard.org Anything Goes!!! http://www.battleboard.org Say what the other sites don't let you say. http://www.battleboard.org ----- You have been sent this email because either your email address was submitted as someone who would be interested in this site or, in the past, you have visited similar related sites. From blayer at qwest.net Tue Jun 26 16:05:49 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hey, they're talking about your car In-Reply-To: <200106262055.f5QKt7s01994@esus.mc.mpls.visi.com> References: <200106262055.f5QKt7s01994@esus.mc.mpls.visi.com> Message-ID: <20010626160549.23d54408.blayer@qwest.net> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:55:50 -0700 "Auto Experts" wrote: > Have you ever wondered what others think about your car? No, that kind of self-doubt is usually reserved for my butt. (Do these pants make me look fat?) -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From ben at nerp.net Tue Jun 26 16:13:09 2001 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hey, they're talking about your car In-Reply-To: <20010626160549.23d54408.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- stop that bill.. you're making me laugh at work.. :) Thank You, Ben Kochie (ben@nerp.net) "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Bill Layer wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:55:50 -0700 > "Auto Experts" wrote: > > > Have you ever wondered what others think about your car? > > No, that kind of self-doubt is usually reserved for my butt. (Do these > pants make me look fat?) > > > -.bill.layer.- > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBOzj66MtpDhsSpvgtAQENtQP9HMdYrzyXJFdwA1WRvnjfx0gBKPtFAid2 /6dc7JNpdRg7/YfgbzyWf8vA0Rz+zN6z8wW1+kAXNoJ0qMiV5yZlN5yCKhMKS7kb 0WcZ3z7igMYl+6LAJMxJSdb29HNvr8mixkjefX47OJXv+6rZk+B98oCqLUnkWIko KzRJFS4XVOg= =3HuV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From drew at usfamily.net Tue Jun 26 10:17:28 2001 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hey, they're talking about your car References: <200106262055.f5QKt7s01994@esus.mc.mpls.visi.com> Message-ID: <3B38A788.DCB44A6C@usfamily.net> WHAT THE PHUCK??? I'll have you know I drive a really nice car. And as for the spam! Auto Experts wrote: > Have you ever wondered what others think about your car? > Have you ever had something to say about someone else's automobile? > Did you know there is a new website where you can do both of these freely > and openly? > > Come visit us at the Battle Board. > > http://www.battleboard.org > > Flame Away!!! > > http://www.battleboard.org > > Anything Goes!!! > > http://www.battleboard.org > > Say what the other sites don't let you say. > > http://www.battleboard.org > > ----- > You have been sent this email because either your email address was > submitted as someone who would be interested in this site or, in the past, > you have visited similar related sites. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: drew.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 265 bytes Desc: Card for Andrew Nemchenko Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010626/2e98973e/drew.vcf From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jun 26 12:34:21 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Caldera -is- a parasite References: <20010626030854.A29480@real-time.com> <3B388CC4.A2EDAEAB@qwest.net> <3B38BF34.157212C4@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B38C79D.90603@ringworld.org> Simeon Johnston wrote: > But what does that have to do with Apple? If you mean they took an old OS > (*nix/BSD) and simply slapped a really cool GUI over the top then I would Apple (blah) took BSD (open) and slapped NextStuff (closed) and a neat GUI (that cant be hacked on) with little source other than darwin (repackaged BSD without the nifty GUI) Get it? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From dutchman at uswest.net Tue Jun 26 16:27:33 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files Message-ID: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Greet the sun all: Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in either nedit or gedit. Ideas? -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From thomas at stderr.net Tue Jun 26 16:38:14 2001 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500 References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010626233814.H37363@io.stderr.net> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on > dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in > either nedit or gedit. Ideas? I usually do something like: perl -pi -e 's/\r\n/\n/' file or tr -d '\015' file But there's supposed to be a dos2unix tool, not that it's hard to make yourself. -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer From dante at plethora.net Tue Jun 26 17:06:49 2001 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: In vi (if it is showing the extra character):%s/.$// vim doesn't show the extra character and has a special command to change the mode of the file. -- Dan On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on > dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in > either nedit or gedit. Ideas? > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Jun 26 16:45:14 2001 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <20010626233814.H37363@io.stderr.net>; from thomas@stderr.net on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:38:14PM +0200 References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> <20010626233814.H37363@io.stderr.net> Message-ID: <20010626164514.A14063@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:38:14PM +0200, Thomas Eibner wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > Greet the sun all: > > > > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on > > dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in > > either nedit or gedit. Ideas? > > I usually do something like: > > perl -pi -e 's/\r\n/\n/' file > > or > > tr -d '\015' file Or in vim from the colon prompt type: :s/^V^M// (where ^V = control+V and ^M=control+M) -- Jim Crumley | crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jun 26 16:49:20 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500 References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010626164920.F27972@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on > dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in > either nedit or gedit. Ideas? Something along the lines of sed -e "s/^M//g" dosfile > unixfile should work, where the ^M is obtained by pressing ctrl-v ctrl-m. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From ssinn at qwest.net Tue Jun 26 16:49:19 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Caldera -is- a parasite References: <20010626030854.A29480@real-time.com> <3B388CC4.A2EDAEAB@qwest.net> <3B38BF34.157212C4@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B39035F.461EC5F0@qwest.net> What I mean is: 1) Caldera is a parasite 2) They are not alone 3) These parasites are using *alternatively licensed* software to promote their own betterment rather than the betterment of the respective *alternetively licensed* software community. I used Apple as an example because it has *Open Source* projects but pulls shtuff like this... http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=2773 Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > OOOOOO0oooooh! You done it now Spenc. > What exactly do you mean? > Apple is BSD (OS X). Thats a different beast all together. > As far as I know Apple has nothing nor ever has had anything to do with > Linux. > > I agree that companies that simply get old technology and put in some sort > of Office suite are a kind of parasite. A waiste of everyones time and a > delay in the advancement of technology. A sore on the buttocks of > humanity. > But what does that have to do with Apple? If you mean they took an old OS > (*nix/BSD) and simply slapped a really cool GUI over the top then I would > have to strongly disagree. I will not state the reasons why at this point > because I am still not sure what you are talking about. > > Please explain what you mean..... > > sim > Sorry everyone. I tried not to respond to this but I couldn't help myself. > > I'll go now. > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Tue Jun 26 16:50:59 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Monitor Message-ID: <01062616505900.12496@friday.tarsk.com> Is anyone interested in purchasing a used Sun GDM-20D10 monitor? I have an adapter to make it functional on a PC, however it is a "fixed" frequency monitor, so there are limitations. Here are some specs: 20" (19" viewable) IR Remote control Can support 1024x768 to 1280x768 (no, it wont do 640x480 or 800x600) Works great in Linux and on Suns If anyone is interested, let me know. Jay -- I'd be a poorer man if I'd never seen an eagle fly. -- John Denver [I saw an eagle fly once. Fortunately, I had my eagle fly swatter handy. Ed.] From ssinn at qwest.net Tue Jun 26 16:56:17 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> <20010626233814.H37363@io.stderr.net> <20010626164514.A14063@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B390501.524B80FC@qwest.net> Jim Crumley wrote: > > Or in vim from the colon prompt type: > :s/^V^M// > > (where ^V = control+V and ^M=control+M) > > -- > Jim Crumley | > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu | > Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378 | > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Or do the whole file at once with vim -c "%s/^M//g" -c "wq" filename Replaces all your ^M 's and writes/quits the file From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 26 16:58:40 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500 References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010626165840.K15499@real-time.com> Quoting Perry Hoekstra (dutchman@uswest.net): > Greet the sun all: > > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on > dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in > either nedit or gedit. Ideas? > emacs takes care of this, m-x replace-string ^Q^M with nothing. or cat my.jsp | tr -d '\015' > tmp.jsp mv tmp.jsp my.jsp -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Tue Jun 26 17:00:05 2001 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <3B38F360.350263C6@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: I've bought a few things from gns and have not had a problem there too, but I havn't had to return anything either, so I havn't dealt with them on that issue. GNS seems to be set up for the computer geek, like a lot of us out there. You know what you need and how to use it. I referr less educated people to TM cause I know that they will get what they want and need and that they will have some place to go for help. Colin Kilbane From simeonuj at eetc.com Tue Jun 26 17:17:57 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Caldera -is- a parasite References: <20010626030854.A29480@real-time.com> <3B388CC4.A2EDAEAB@qwest.net> <3B38BF34.157212C4@eetc.com> <3B39035F.461EC5F0@qwest.net> Message-ID: <3B3909D8.79737616@eetc.com> Spencer J Sinn wrote: > What I mean is: > > 1) Caldera is a parasite > 2) They are not alone > 3) These parasites are using *alternatively licensed* software to > promote their own betterment rather than the betterment of the > respective *alternetively licensed* software community. > > I used Apple as an example because it has *Open Source* projects but > pulls shtuff like this... > > http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=2773 AAAAAaaaah. I see. The whole MTP thing really sucks. :-( Parasite seems a little strong though. :-) sim I'm really done now. From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Tue Jun 26 17:09:18 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: I always use this handy little sed script: sed 's/$/^M/' file1.txt >file2.txt Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 |-----Original Message----- |From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org |[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Perry Hoekstra |Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:28 PM |To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org |Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files | | |Greet the sun all: | |Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I |retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in |BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the |little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on |dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a |UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in |either nedit or gedit. Ideas? | |-- |Perry Hoekstra |E-Commerce Architect |Talent Software Services |perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com |_______________________________________________ |tclug-list mailing list |tclug-list@mn-linux.org |https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jun 26 17:20:46 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Monitor In-Reply-To: <01062616505900.12496@friday.tarsk.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jay Kline wrote: > Is anyone interested in purchasing a used Sun GDM-20D10 monitor? I have an > adapter to make it functional on a PC, however it is a "fixed" frequency > monitor, so there are limitations. Here are some specs: I'll have to check, but I believe that is one of the models that works correctly on SGI stuff, without modification. (Sun/SGI both use the 13W3 connector, but with different pinouts.) Do you have a price range? -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jun 26 17:22:16 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: ; from jspinti@dart.dartdist.com on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:09:18PM -0500 References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010626172216.M15499@real-time.com> Quoting James Spinti (jspinti@dart.dartdist.com): > I always use this handy little sed script: > > sed 's/$/^M/' file1.txt >file2.txt > Yeah, I love linux. SOO many ways to do things. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 26 19:40:23 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. References: <05dc01c0fbb8$64c96b90$0300000a@anelginanalas> <3B342EC3.7060405@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1ce001c0fea1$c093df00$0300000a@anelginanalas> At this point, I'm open to just about any kind of programming except for anything mainframe or microsoft. CAVEAT: I'll do MS before mainframe. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott M. Dier" To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Jobs, once last time. > Mike Bresnahan wrote: > > > I've personally been looking for a software development job since February. > > The market is really bad right now. > Hmm, what kind of programming? > > > -- > Scott Dier > http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 26 19:52:43 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Compilers? (Very slightly OT) References: <20010624133913.A24455@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1cf601c0fea3$79a78540$0300000a@anelginanalas> If you're compiling C code, then you are likely ok, because I believe GCC uses Sun's libc. In fact, I checked this assumption by compiling a hello world app on isis.visi.com. Here is what I got: isis~: gcc hello.c isis~: ldd a.out libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 isis~: uname -a SunOS isis 5.6 Generic_105181-17 sun4u sparc SUNW,UltraSPARC-IIi-Engine isis~: gcc --version 2.8.1 If you're compiling C++, you may not be okay. In my experience, C++ compilers are incompatible in more ways than one. Name mangling is one thing they haven't agreed upon and this prevents compatible linking. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Christian" To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 11:39 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Compilers? (Very slightly OT) > This is more a GNU question than a linux question, but I figure this is the right crowd to ask anyway :> > > I'm using GNU tools for porting a library to Solaris. This means I'm using gcc to compile the code. The clients who will be using this library are using the Solaris native compiler for their program which will be using my library. Do you guys know of any issues that arise when two object files created by different compilers are linked? Will the client's program and my library play nice together? > > Thanks in advance, > Dave > > P.S. just wanted to mention that if there is a meeting about netcat I'll show up since I had barely even heard of it before this last discussion and it sounds nifty. :> So there's one vote. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Jun 26 19:57:45 2001 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Compilers? (Very slightly OT) References: <20010624133913.A24455@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1cfe01c0fea4$2da084c0$0300000a@anelginanalas> By the way, I don't think there is anything off-topic about GNU software on a linux form. Remember, that linux is only a kernel. It's the addition of the plethora of GNU software that makes it a useable operating system. I believe the GNU people made a big stink about this issue a while back. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Christian" To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 11:39 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Compilers? (Very slightly OT) > This is more a GNU question than a linux question, but I figure this is the right crowd to ask anyway :> > > I'm using GNU tools for porting a library to Solaris. This means I'm using gcc to compile the code. The clients who will be using this library are using the Solaris native compiler for their program which will be using my library. Do you guys know of any issues that arise when two object files created by different compilers are linked? Will the client's program and my library play nice together? > > Thanks in advance, > Dave > > P.S. just wanted to mention that if there is a meeting about netcat I'll show up since I had barely even heard of it before this last discussion and it sounds nifty. :> So there's one vote. > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Tue Jun 26 18:23:07 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] name-based virtual hosting Message-ID: Hey everyone, I've got DSL with one static IP. Is it possible to use name-based virtual hosting to route Web traffic to two different domains that point to the same IP address? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From mkroska at readynetgo.com Tue Jun 26 18:34:44 2001 From: mkroska at readynetgo.com (Mark K) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] name-based virtual hosting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim-- You bet it is...and we do it whenever there aren't any "special needs" for the site, such as unique POP or FTP service needed for that domain. Just be sure that DNS points both domains to the same IP, and just fill in the blanks in Apache, as per the docs: http://www.apache.org/docs-2.0/vhosts/ip-based.html Works really well. MK On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I've got DSL with one static IP. Is it possible to use name-based virtual > hosting to route Web traffic to two different domains that point to the same > IP address? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ________________________________________________________ ReadyNET Go!, Inc. - Building your Business on the net ________________________________________________________ Mark J. Kroska MIS Director 320.656.0765 Voice 888.447.3239 Toll Free 320.203.7052 Fax http://www.readynetgo.com mailto:mkroska@readynetgo.com ________________________________________________________ From spencer at sihope.com Tue Jun 26 06:07:32 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01062606073209.01005@red.autonomous.tv> On Tuesday 26 June 2001 03:12 pm, you wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > Plus, I don't have to pay shipping. :) > > ...but you do have to pay 6.5% sales tax. On $1400, that's $91, which I'm > sure you could get (overnight) shipping for. It evens out. :) I have dealt with both GNS and TranMicro in the past. I just use GNS now. If you tell either of them your tax id number you pay no tax. Of coarse if you do not have a tax id number your conscious might haunt you for trying to beat the system. -- Spencer Underground mailto:spencer@sihope.com deltree c:\windows /y whois microsoft.com From gabe at msi.umn.edu Tue Jun 26 18:37:53 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: ; from colin@tyr.med.umn.edu on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:19:19PM -0500 References: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010626183753.A17635@squall.localdomain> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:19:19PM -0500, Colin Kilbane wrote: > I've been refering people to tran micro for quite some time now. Of the > people that I referred, about 15 or so bought their machines there and all > of them have been satisfied 100%. I have personally built 6 machines with > them and have had no problems. Sure you can get it cheaper on line, but > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you get > exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing anything > anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. The only time I don't buy it > there is when they don't carry it. I'm sounding like a comercial here.... Well, although I _ocassionaly_ go to General Nanosystems to buy components (they've been beating Tran in price lately), I also have to recommend Tran Micro. Even if they're sometimes a bit more expensive than Nanosystems, Tran _tests_ everything you buy before you take it home. I bought a dual pIII MSI board, 2 pIII 800'a and 256 MB RAM there and they threw it all together, hooked it to a PS and attached a video card just so they could make sure it all worked. Also, all their systems (if you buy a full system from them) have a 1 year warrenty and they don't hassle you about calling upon it. Where I work we had a problem 700 mHz first gen (slot A, .25 micron) Athlon. It was constantly suffering heat-related lock-ups even though it was only running at about 95 degF. There was still a month or so on the warrenty, so I brought it back. Although their tech was reluctant to replace anything (they couldn't reproduce the lockups since they only keep it at 65 deg in there!), once I explained everything to Tran and his wife (I think), they replaced the CPU (A 2nd gen slot A Athlon w/ .18 micron process!) for free. Of course, our problems still weren't solved and about a month after the warranty _ran out_, they gave us a brand, spankin' new mobo free of charge. Tested, of course :) Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From florin at iucha.net Tue Jun 26 18:53:03 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <20010626183753.A17635@squall.localdomain>; from gabe@msi.umn.edu on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:37:53PM -0500 References: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> <20010626183753.A17635@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010626185303.B10841@beaver.iucha.org> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:37:53PM -0500, Gabe Turner wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:19:19PM -0500, Colin Kilbane wrote: > > I've been refering people to tran micro for quite some time now. Of the > > people that I referred, about 15 or so bought their machines there and all > > of them have been satisfied 100%. I have personally built 6 machines with > > them and have had no problems. Sure you can get it cheaper on line, but > > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you get > > exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing anything > > anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. The only time I don't buy it > > there is when they don't carry it. I'm sounding like a comercial here.... > > Well, although I _ocassionaly_ go to General Nanosystems to buy components > (they've been beating Tran in price lately), I also have to recommend Tran > Micro. Even if they're sometimes a bit more expensive than Nanosystems, > Tran _tests_ everything you buy before you take it home. I bought a dual > pIII MSI board, 2 pIII 800'a and 256 MB RAM there and they threw it all > together, hooked it to a PS and attached a video card just so they could > make sure it all worked. If that's what you call tested... > Also, all their systems (if you buy a full system from them) have a 1 year > warrenty and they don't hassle you about calling upon it. Where I work we > had a problem 700 mHz first gen (slot A, .25 micron) Athlon. It was > constantly suffering heat-related lock-ups even though it was only running > at about 95 degF. There was still a month or so on the warrenty, so I > brought it back. Although their tech was reluctant to replace anything > (they couldn't reproduce the lockups since they only keep it at 65 deg in > there!), once I explained everything to Tran and his wife (I think), they > replaced the CPU (A 2nd gen slot A Athlon w/ .18 micron process!) for free. > > Of course, our problems still weren't solved and about a month after the > warranty _ran out_, they gave us a brand, spankin' new mobo free of charge. > Tested, of course :) it's no wonder they didn't fix the problem... Sometimes is cheaper to throw more hardware at the problem. florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From clay at fandre.com Tue Jun 26 19:55:20 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor References: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05CCDAA6@msgmsp15.norwest.com> Message-ID: <3B392EF8.DC8820BD@fandre.com> Phillip.J.Crump@WellsFargo.COM wrote: > > I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one for > sale??? I have a couple of 15 inch monitors I can part with. They're not the greatest, but they work. One's an Acer and has a pretty good picture. From clay at fandre.com Tue Jun 26 19:59:21 2001 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital camera remote control References: <3B378525.3652BE30@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <3B392FE9.CAD18F14@fandre.com> And if you're like me and like to do everything from the command line, check out get-pictures. http://freshmeat.net/projects/get-pictures/ Kent Schumacher wrote: > > Oddly enough, the last time I tried remotely taking a picture with > gPhoto and my Kodak DC280 it worked just fine. > > Michael Vieths wrote: > > > > gPhoto has this functionality for some cameras. There's a 'Take Picture' > > option that you use. > > > > Whether the Canon S110 can do it, though, I'm uncertain. My Kodak DC280 > > doesn't like it, and gPhoto crashes. > > > > -- > > Michael Vieths > > Foeclan@Winternet.Com > > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > > > I'm considering getting a digital camera. the Canon S110 is just about > > > everything I'm looking for, at a price that I can almost withstand. :) > > > > > > this may be a stupid question, but: > > > Is there any way to remotely control a camera like this? as in plug your PC > > > into the USB interface, and remotely tell it to take shots, like a 'webcam'? > > > it seems like a perfectly obvious thing to do with a camera; but whether the > > > camera designers think so, is another matter. :| > > > > > > Carl Soderstrom > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From swalkup at isd.net Tue Jun 26 21:23:13 2001 From: swalkup at isd.net (swalkup@isd.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3B38FD41.22467.13A5F5B@localhost> On Slackware: fromdos(1) fromdos(1) NAME fromdos - convert DOS text file format to UNIX. SYNOPSIS fromdos < dosfile.txt > unixfile.txt DESCRIPTION fromdos takes a DOS text file as stdin and sends a UNIX text file to stdout. DOS text file format separates lines of text by two characters: CR followed by LF (hex 0d 0a). UNIX text file format separates lines of text with a sin- gle LF character (hex 0a). This program changes the CR LF groups found in the input stream to LF in the output stream. SEE ALSO todos(1). May 4, 1997 1 Kelly Black On 26 Jun 2001, at 16:27, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking > on dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal > in either nedit or gedit. Ideas? > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From swalkup at isd.net Tue Jun 26 21:28:05 2001 From: swalkup at isd.net (swalkup@isd.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <3B38FE65.24486.13ED271@localhost> BTW, fromdos and todos are available from the Slackware distro (bin package diska2) Kelly On 26 Jun 2001, at 16:27, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Greet the sun all: > > Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I > retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in > BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the > little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking > on dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a > UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal > in either nedit or gedit. Ideas? > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Tue Jun 26 22:04:00 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun Monitor In-Reply-To: <01062616505900.12496@friday.tarsk.com> References: <01062616505900.12496@friday.tarsk.com> Message-ID: <01062622040000.14561@friday.tarsk.com> The going rate on ebay for these guys seems to be about $100. The base is sort of broken. It sits on the base just fine, but when you pick up the monitor, the base dosnt come with it. (pretty minor, its so heavy I dont move it much) Taking this into consideration, I would take $75 or best offer. I live in St. Louis Park, and there is no way I can ship this thing. So arrangements for delivery/pickup would have to be made. Jay From jay-tclug at 3pound.com Wed Jun 27 10:16:31 2001 From: jay-tclug at 3pound.com (Jay J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010627101631.42fbf366.jay-tclug@3pound.com> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:19:19 -0500 (CDT) Colin Kilbane wrote: > Sure you can get it cheaper on line, but > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you > get exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing > anything anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. The only time I > don't buy it there is when they don't carry it. I'm sounding like a > comercial here.... > > Colin Kilbane I just have to address this particular point. What's the sense of paying (for example) $179.99 for Athlon 1.3GHz at GNS instead of ~$130 + shipping? That ~$50 savings gets you a 256MB stick .... By the time that Athlon craps out on you, chances are you'll have to send to the factory anyway .. no? I buy cases, video cards and monitors (occasionally) at GNS .. all the stuff that doesn't make sense to ship. -Jay p.s. just don't order from computerhq.com, be sure to check reseller ratings when ordering on-line. From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 27 10:59:14 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost In-Reply-To: <7402C6826C67B547A7F1870FCB4D5F6F109941@mspexch1.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Well, I've began my journey into the 3,292 uses for netcat. To keep things simple I'm just cat'ing a file from machine A to a file on machine B. So my setup is this: On machine B: (IP 10.1.1.1) nc -l -n -v -p 8888 > somefile It says listening on [any] 8888 On machine A: (IP 10.1.1.254) cat /etc/hosts | nc -n -v 10.1.1.1 8888 And it says broken pipe. Any ideas where I've messed up here? I looked at the very LONG man page and in all the neat things you can do it never talks about moving entire hard drives over a network. Any ideas would be appreciated! -Brian From thudak at sistina.com Wed Jun 27 10:58:05 2001 From: thudak at sistina.com (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Converting DOS files In-Reply-To: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500 References: <3B38FE45.C23BBDE0@uswest.net> Message-ID: <20010627105805.A8528@localhost> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:27:33PM -0500, Perry Hoekstra wrote: >Greet the sun all: > >Is there an easy way to convert an ASCII file from [dos] to Linux. I >retrieved some JSPs from my W2K side and when I attempt to run them in >BEA, I get some spurious errors. If I bring them up in vi, I get the >little [dos] indicator which leads me to believe that BEA is choking on >dealing with DOS EOL on Linux. I know within UltraEdit, there is a >UnixToDOS format conversion option. I could not find such an animal in >either nedit or gedit. Ideas? There are two great scripts I use for making my user's batch files (ugh.. I know.. samba PDC though.) useable under dos after creating them in linux. They are called xtod and dtox and can be grabbed from SHELLdorado.. http://oase-shareware.org/shell/scripts/categories.html Search the page and you'll find them. Very handy. Thanks, -- Thomas J. Hudak Systems Administrator Sistina Software Inc. - www.sistina.com Phone: 612.638.0500 x.513 Fax: 612.379.3952 Page: 612.318.1967 Key fingerprint = BEC6 3181 4C9B A7BB AF11 4717 6F85 B346 380D 523E sleep: Command not found - The story of my life... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010627/1fd74bea/attachment.pgp From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jun 27 11:01:15 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> <20010627101631.42fbf366.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Message-ID: <012f01c0ff22$65b9cbe0$3028680a@tgt.com> Athlon might crap out on you in 1 week, or 10 minutes. Overheating problem, yada yada yada. Well, you can just drive down to GNS or TM and get it replaced. Good luck doing that online, and chances are, the price you are given is OEM and you only have 30 days on it anyway. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay J" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New system recommendations > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:19:19 -0500 (CDT) > Colin Kilbane wrote: > > > Sure you can get it cheaper on line, but > > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you > > get exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing > > anything anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. The only time I > > don't buy it there is when they don't carry it. I'm sounding like a > > comercial here.... > > > > Colin Kilbane > > I just have to address this particular point. > > What's the sense of paying (for example) $179.99 for Athlon 1.3GHz at > GNS instead of ~$130 + shipping? > > That ~$50 savings gets you a 256MB stick .... > > By the time that Athlon craps out on you, chances are you'll have to > send to the factory anyway .. no? > > I buy cases, video cards and monitors (occasionally) at GNS .. all > the stuff that doesn't make sense to ship. > > -Jay > > p.s. just don't order from computerhq.com, be sure to check reseller > ratings when ordering on-line. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jurupari at geocities.com Wed Jun 27 11:25:38 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <993587740.3b38f21c0cf81@dragon> References: Message-ID: <200106271626.f5RGQ2118245@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On 26 Jun 01, at 15:35, jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hi, > > Quoting Colin Kilbane : > > > then factor in shipping, at least 10 to 30 bucks and the fact that you > > get exceptional service right here in town, no RMA's no mailing anything > > anywhere. It's a better deal in the end. Well, at least with most mail order outfits you could get an RMA # and return something if you needed to. I recently went to Tran to purchase some RAM for a new system I am piecing together. It was a pleasant enough experience I guess, the owner was friendly. I don't think I care for the refund/exchange policy though. I told him I was looking for a pair of the 256MB PC133 Micron DIMMS they advertise on their web site. Well they didn't have those, but this other brand XXX is better for sure! Well, I don't know... ok I guess. I wouldn't know if they were or not. Anyhow, the point is this: I told him exactly what motherboard I planned to put them in - an Abit KT7A-RAID - which they sell and their site says that they have in stock, and I asked him if there would be any problems. He said he didn't know, but it should be OK. I had an several Micron part numbers from the Crucial web site that were guaranteed to work with this board, but Tran wasn't selling Micron when I was there (last week). He told me if they didn't work, I was S.O.L. They would only take an exchange in the case of physically defective RAM. No money back, and no credit for other merchandise. If the RAM was incompatible with my board that was my problem. Since they sell that motherboard I asked again if he knew if the combo would work figuring they must have set up many systems based on that mobo. and he said he couldn't say for sure. He tried talking me into buying some other board and getting DDR RAM since DIMMS would be obsolete soon. Ahhh, OK, but no thanks. Anyhow, I bought the DIMMS and hope they work when I get the mobo elsewhere. If their price was close, I would have been happy to support the local shop, but the difference was $54, and the tax vs. shipping costs almost cancelled each other out. Mike From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 27 11:26:17 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > On machine B: (IP 10.1.1.1) > nc -l -n -v -p 8888 > somefile > > It says listening on [any] 8888 > > On machine A: (IP 10.1.1.254) > cat /etc/hosts | nc -n -v 10.1.1.1 8888 Update: I've figured out my broken pipe problem. In an earlier test I used a > instead of | and I dumped /etc/hosts into /usr/sbin/nc. Not going to work that way! So I reinstalled the binary and tried again. Workstation B reports: connect to [10.1.1.1] from (UNKNOWN) [10.1.1.254] 4367 and A reports: (UNKNOWN) [10.1.1.1] 8888 (?) open and there it sits. How long should it take to cat /etc/hosts over a 10 Mb switched network? It's been sitting for about 5 min so I'm wondering what's up. -Brian From jurupari at geocities.com Wed Jun 27 11:38:45 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <012f01c0ff22$65b9cbe0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <200106271639.f5RGd9124062@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On 27 Jun 01, at 11:01, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Athlon might crap out on you in 1 week, or 10 minutes. Overheating problem, > yada yada yada. Well, you can just drive down to GNS or TM and get it > replaced. Good luck doing that online, and chances are, the price you are > given is OEM and you only have 30 days on it anyway. I see that if you purchase an AMD CPU from Multiwave you get a one year warranty (not 30 days) on the OEM version, and a three year warranty on the retail product. There is $26 difference in price between the two on the 1200MHz CPU, but the retail version comes with an AMD approved fan/heatsink where the OEM does not. From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jun 27 11:43:32 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: <200106271639.f5RGd9124062@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <016e01c0ff28$4de4f840$3028680a@tgt.com> With the retail version, you are almost alway responsible for contacting the manufacturer to get your exchange, where as the OEM you would contact that store. So, could be good or not. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New system recommendations > On 27 Jun 01, at 11:01, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > Athlon might crap out on you in 1 week, or 10 minutes. Overheating problem, > > yada yada yada. Well, you can just drive down to GNS or TM and get it > > replaced. Good luck doing that online, and chances are, the price you are > > given is OEM and you only have 30 days on it anyway. > > I see that if you purchase an AMD CPU from Multiwave you get a one year > warranty (not 30 days) on the OEM version, and a three year warranty on the > retail product. There is $26 difference in price between the two on the > 1200MHz CPU, but the retail version comes with an AMD approved > fan/heatsink where the OEM does not. > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 27 11:50:45 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services Message-ID: <200106271716.f5RHGYK20198@sprite.real-time.com> It's been about two weeks since I left my little Mdk7.2 laptop in the dust, and I think I've got Debian (mostly) figured out. However, I'm a little stumped how to configure what services get started on boot-up. Under RH/Mdk, I just ran 'ntsysv' in a vt and selected what I wanted to run. Is there something similar for Debian? (I'm using Progeny, so if they have thrown in something extra, that would be nice to know.) For instance, I really don't need to run a ssh server. Of course I can shut it off after boot-up, but I'd much rather not start it at all. Is there some doc floating around for RH/Mdk refugees? "You've used them for a while, now here's how to use Debian." Something that points out the different ways things are done. Alos, bonus question: how do I upgrade KDE 2.0 to 2.1.1? I have this in sources.list: deb ftp://kde.debian.net/pub/kde potato main crypto optional but when I apt-get install task-kde it gives me a list of dependencies that it won't install. I tried apt-get upgrade, but this did not include KDE. What gives? Thanks, :Peter From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jun 27 12:30:38 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services In-Reply-To: <200106271716.f5RHGYK20198@sprite.real-time.com>; from peter.clark@tides.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 08:50:45AM -0800 References: <200106271716.f5RHGYK20198@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010627123038.A5131@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 08:50:45AM -0800, peter.clark@tides.com wrote: > RH/Mdk, I just ran 'ntsysv' in a vt and selected what I wanted to run. Is > there something similar for Debian? There's something for managing your startup scripts without playing with the symlinks directly (update-rc.d), but nothing graphical or menu-based, AFAIK. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Jun 27 12:56:19 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] name-based virtual hosting In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:23:07PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010627125619.B14154@iaxs.net> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:23:07PM -0500, Timothy Wilson wrote: > I've got DSL with one static IP. Is it possible to use name-based virtual > hosting to route Web traffic to two different domains that point to the same > IP address? Yep. Check out NameVirtualHost at www.apache.org. http://www.apache.org/docs-2.0/vhosts/index.html Warning: if you're actually doing NAT, the IP address you need to use in your Apache config files is your _internal_ IP address, not your external IP address. Took me _forever_ (something like two weeks), and a lot of yells for help to here and colleagues at work before I figured that one out. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jun 27 13:06:27 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services In-Reply-To: <200106271716.f5RHGYK20198@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: man update-rc.d, not as pretty as what you described, but it'll have to do. > deb ftp://kde.debian.net/pub/kde potato main crypto optional > but when I apt-get install task-kde it gives me a list of dependencies that > it won't install. I tried apt-get upgrade, but this did not include KDE. > What gives? Ummm, that line is a potato source line, yeah it will give you lots of depends errors with progeny. Do you have a line for Progeny updates? Off the top of my head, that's the most likely place to get the latest KDE. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From schelcj at pobox.com Wed Jun 27 13:27:39 2001 From: schelcj at pobox.com (Chris Scheller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And it says broken pipe. Any ideas where I've messed up here? I looked > at the very LONG man page and in all the neat things you can do it never > talks about moving entire hard drives over a network. Any ideas would be another idea to consider for moving an entire drive, is to use tar over ssh. such as tar -clps / | ssh -l -e none split -b1800m - or you can just untar the drive to the remote host like tar -clps / | ssh -l -e none tar -C /mnt/root -x > appreciated! > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Chris Scheller Network One Internet, inc. http://www.networkone.net/ System/Network Administration 1.888.GOT.NET1 From simeonuj at eetc.com Wed Jun 27 13:31:49 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services References: Message-ID: <3B3A2668.95D7A030@eetc.com> Whats the deal with "chkconfig"? Is that a Redhat specific command? Works really nicely if the startup scripts have the right header in them. I think it may just be a script and able to be used on other distro's. Not sure though. "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > man update-rc.d, not as pretty as what you described, but it'll have to > do. > > > deb ftp://kde.debian.net/pub/kde potato main crypto optional > > but when I apt-get install task-kde it gives me a list of dependencies > that > > it won't install. I tried apt-get upgrade, but this did not include KDE. > > What gives? > > Ummm, that line is a potato source line, yeah it will give you lots of > depends errors with progeny. Do you have a line for Progeny updates? Off > the top of my head, that's the most likely place to get the latest KDE. sim From barnabas at knicknack.net Wed Jun 27 13:41:07 2001 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:26:17AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010627134107.A21709@knicknack.net> I haven't used netcat a whole lot, but it has been my experience that the command doesn't terminate when the file is done being transferred. The technique I used was to watch the blinky lights on my switch and when they quit blinking to see whether the file sizes where the same. If they are then Ctrl-C at least one end to terminate netcat. Eric On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:26:17AM -0500, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > > On machine B: (IP 10.1.1.1) > > nc -l -n -v -p 8888 > somefile > > > > It says listening on [any] 8888 > > > > On machine A: (IP 10.1.1.254) > > cat /etc/hosts | nc -n -v 10.1.1.1 8888 > > Update: I've figured out my broken pipe problem. In an earlier test I > used a > instead of | and I dumped /etc/hosts into /usr/sbin/nc. Not > going to work that way! > > So I reinstalled the binary and tried again. Workstation B reports: > connect to [10.1.1.1] from (UNKNOWN) [10.1.1.254] 4367 > > and A reports: > (UNKNOWN) [10.1.1.1] 8888 (?) open > > and there it sits. How long should it take to cat /etc/hosts over a 10 Mb > switched network? It's been sitting for about 5 min so I'm wondering > what's up. > > -Brian From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 27 13:42:44 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services In-Reply-To: <3B3A2668.95D7A030@eetc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Simeon Johnston wrote: > Whats the deal with "chkconfig"? Is that a Redhat specific command? > Works really nicely if the startup scripts have the right header in them. > I think it may just be a script and able to be used on other distro's. Not > sure though. Yeah, chkconfig is rh-specific. Debian uses update-rc.d -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From nate at nerp.net Wed Jun 27 13:49:01 2001 From: nate at nerp.net (Nate Sanders) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian/SID and PAM breakage? References: <993582510.3b38ddaee2d80@dragon> Message-ID: <3B3A2A9D.131C195@nerp.net> Yes I had that same problem. For any others who have the problem, just log into single user mode, easily done at the LILO prompt: LILO: Linux single where Linux == the label-name of your partition, maybe 2.4.4 or Linux-2.4.2. Then just load up the Network, and apt-update. The new deb's are out and fixed. jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hey, > > Anyone running Debian/SID do a dist-upgrade since last night? I did and it > seems to have broken PAM (ie, can't login to the box anymore. Well, I can, but > I have to cheat). auth.log says something about not being able to > load /lib/security/pam_unix.so, and that that library is corrupt. > > I'm hoping this'll fix itself after a dist-upgrade tomorrow, just wondering if > this happened to anyone else. > > -Yaron -- Nate Sanders nate@chef.nerp.net http://www.damnation.net IRC: darkskull@NEWNET From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jun 27 13:51:02 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost In-Reply-To: <20010627134107.A21709@knicknack.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Eric Stanley wrote: > I haven't used netcat a whole lot, but it has been my experience that > the command doesn't terminate when the file is done being transferred. > The technique I used was to watch the blinky lights on my switch and > when they quit blinking to see whether the file sizes where the same. > If they are then Ctrl-C at least one end to terminate netcat. Well, that's my current method, I found it only takes about 2 seconds to netcat /etc/hosts across. Is there a more elegant way or is the only method of ending a netcat session to wait for the lights to stop blinking then press ctrl-C? It's an acceptable method for most of my applications but it seems a little dirty, kinda like crash landing an airplane. -Brian From peter.clark at tides.com Wed Jun 27 13:28:46 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services Message-ID: <200106271851.f5RIpIK23588@sprite.real-time.com> Andy Zbikowski wrote: --- Ummm, that line is a potato source line, yeah it will give you lots of depends errors with progeny. Do you have a line for Progeny updates? Off the top of my head, that's the most likely place to get the latest KDE. --- D'oh! I copied the wrong line. Should read: ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde main crypto optional As far as I know, Progeny has not released anything newer than KDE2.0. However, Progeny is supposed to be 99.9% Debian compatible, so I took the recommended source for Woody KDE2.1.1. :Peter From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 14:38:44 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: netcat exit (was Re: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > Well, that's my current method, I found it only takes about 2 seconds to > netcat /etc/hosts across. Is there a more elegant way or is the only > method of ending a netcat session to wait for the lights to stop blinking > then press ctrl-C? It's an acceptable method for most of my applications > but it seems a little dirty, kinda like crash landing an airplane. Only if the system doesn't do garbage collection right. Otherwise, it's more like taking the airplane away in the belly of the "mother ship." :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 16:17:40 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <200106271626.f5RGQ2118245@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from jurupari@geocities.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:25:38AM -0500 References: <993587740.3b38f21c0cf81@dragon> <200106271626.f5RGQ2118245@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20010627161740.A2783@blackice.localdomain> > Well, at least with most mail order outfits you could get an RMA # and return > something if you needed to. > > I recently went to Tran to purchase some RAM for a new system I am piecing > together. It was a pleasant enough experience I guess, the owner was > friendly. I don't think I care for the refund/exchange policy though. > > I told him I was looking for a pair of the 256MB PC133 Micron DIMMS they > advertise on their web site. Well they didn't have those, but this other brand > XXX is better for sure! Well, I don't know... ok I guess. I wouldn't know if they > were or not. > > Anyhow, the point is this: I told him exactly what motherboard I planned to put > them in - an Abit KT7A-RAID - which they sell and their site says that they > have in stock, and I asked him if there would be any problems. He said he > didn't know, but it should be OK. I had an several Micron part numbers from > the Crucial web site that were guaranteed to work with this board, but Tran > wasn't selling Micron when I was there (last week). > > He told me if they didn't work, I was S.O.L. They would only take an > exchange in the case of physically defective RAM. No money back, and no > credit for other merchandise. If the RAM was incompatible with my board that > was my problem. > > Since they sell that motherboard I asked again if he knew if the combo would > work figuring they must have set up many systems based on that mobo. and > he said he couldn't say for sure. He tried talking me into buying some other > board and getting DDR RAM since DIMMS would be obsolete soon. Ahhh, > OK, but no thanks. > > Anyhow, I bought the DIMMS and hope they work when I get the mobo > elsewhere. If their price was close, I would have been happy to support the > local shop, but the difference was $54, and the tax vs. shipping costs almost > cancelled each other out. Although I've never known him to be so "sleazy" a salesman as that, maybe you just look a lot more gulible than I do ;) Anyway, he said you're SOL if they don't work, but you still bought them?! I think that's insane. You could have walked two blocks down the street and bought Micron DIMMS from GNS. They were cheaper (when I bought one last week) anyway. Once he tells you the return policy, and it sucks as much as your being SOL if the memory doesn't work in your board, you've taken things into your own hands. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed Jun 27 16:54:19 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beermeeting! Thursday the 28th. Message-ID: Hi folks, we'll be meeting at the Herkimer Pub & Brewery on Lyndale tomorrow. 6-8pm. They have yummy beer. They don't allow minors, sorry. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there! ~jacque From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 17:18:02 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beermeeting! Thursday the 28th. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > Hi folks, we'll be meeting at the Herkimer Pub & Brewery on Lyndale > tomorrow. 6-8pm. Aw, man. Since my wife not only let me buy a pallet of 40 VAXen and keep it in the basement, but wants to take me out to the Lake Elmo Inn tomorrow, I'd probably better not ask if I can take a rain check to make the beer meeting... -- "After all is said and done, more is typically said than done." --Dave Cutler From jurupari at geocities.com Wed Jun 27 17:23:24 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <20010627161740.A2783@blackice.localdomain> References: <200106271626.f5RGQ2118245@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from jurupari@geocities.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:25:38AM -0500 Message-ID: <200106272223.f5RMNn113437@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> > Anyway, he said you're SOL if they don't work, but you still bought them?! Well, 'SOL' wasn't his exact words, but that is just what they amounted to. I had no reason to believe that there was anything wrong with them, I was expecting him to have enough knowledge about what he was selling to guarantee that there would not be a compatability problem. > I think that's insane. You could have walked two blocks down the street > and bought Micron DIMMS from GNS. Perhaps I should have. I have never been there, but I had the feeling that most people thought less of the service at GNS. Next time I am down that way, I should probably stop in. From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed Jun 27 16:54:19 2001 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beermeeting! Thursday the 28th. Message-ID: Hi folks, we'll be meeting at the Herkimer Pub & Brewery on Lyndale tomorrow. 6-8pm. They have yummy beer. They don't allow minors, sorry. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See you there! ~jacque _______________________________________________ tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From jwanderson at uswest.net Wed Jun 27 17:41:00 2001 From: jwanderson at uswest.net (Jay W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Utility for cluster Install (LUI) Message-ID: <200106272241.f5RMf2K29044@sprite.real-time.com> Anybody looked at this? I stumbled across it this evening. It looks ;like it could have some merit. http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/projects/lui Jay From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 18:34:05 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ghetto Ghost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010627183405.0f47ab2e.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Brian wrote: > > Update: I've figured out my broken pipe problem. In an earlier test I > used a > instead of | and I dumped /etc/hosts into /usr/sbin/nc. Not > going to work that way! Heh.. Unless you really need to pipe data from one process to another, you may as well avoid it and have the file be directly connected to stdin by doing something like `nc [options] < /path/to/file'. Though I suppose that might just make things more confusing... -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ The problem with the gene / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ pool is that there is no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) lifeguard. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010627/a7c46d1a/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 18:40:28 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services In-Reply-To: References: <3B3A2668.95D7A030@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010627184028.05549f78.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Nate Carlson wrote: > > Yeah, chkconfig is rh-specific. > > Debian uses update-rc.d Maybe the Debian folks can explain the proper way to use update-rc.d? I've tried to use it before, but it never seems to work as advertised. I've usually tried /usr/sbin/update-rc.d inetd remove ..but it doesn't seem to touch the symlinks in /etc/rc*.d Is this the right syntax for disabling services? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Why doesn't Tarzan have a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ beard? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010627/c2f1012c/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 27 19:03:12 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? Message-ID: <20010627190312.E5238@real-time.com> I could have predicted this months ago. VA's service has just sucked for months. And turn-around on orders was pathetic. So, whom should we switch to? Any recommendations? We got a penguin and it's ok. Who are you buying your hardware from? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 19:32:25 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NVRAM Message-ID: <010627193225.20353444@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Does anyone know how to print out the nvram settings? I have RH/NT/98/95 that I'd like to have the settings recorded and I'd prefer not to do it by hand. There doesn't seem to be any /dev/nvram, which is about all I could find mentioned. Thanks Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 27 19:34:37 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Calderasite vs RedHat Message-ID: <20010627193437.F5238@real-time.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/20020.html Ok, this make some sort of logical sense, -but- how does RedHat keep it's distro free from per-system licensing and show a profit? An how can Mandrake keep it's distro free from per-system licensing and go IPO? I just think Caldera just want brain-suck the open source community and make a profit from it. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 27 19:46:18 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Metting + Loki Payment Message-ID: Hey, Ok, I've only got 8 checks so far, and the total is 12 people who have paid. The woman who is our (very patient and helpful!) contact at Loki is going on vacation starting Friday. I'd like to put the order in tomorrow so we don't have ot wait another MONTH for this to happen. IF YOU HAVE MAILED ME A CHECK, and have not yet received confirmation, please drop me an email and let me know. I will be at the beer meeting tomorrow. If you would like to come down in person and drop off a check, please do so, and let me know in advance about that, too. I'm also available downtown Minneapolis on a regular basis, if this makes anyone's life easier. If I can get enough of the remaining people to promise me that they've sent a payment or intend to REALLY soon, I'll give Loki my CC tomorrow and we can expect a few good gaming nights really soon. TIA, -Yaron -- From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jun 27 19:52:52 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? In-Reply-To: <20010627190312.E5238@real-time.com> Message-ID: Western Scientific. Great Service, they get linux. Can roll large or small stuff in short order and great prices. I just recently ordered 31 1U nodes in 3 half racks with FC JBODs, NPS's and they arrived in these kick ass crates. Fantastic hardware great prices. I don't have their number with me now. I'll post it tomorrow. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob Tanner > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:03 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? > > > I could have predicted this months ago. VA's service has > just sucked for > months. And turn-around on orders was pathetic. > > So, whom should we switch to? Any recommendations? > > We got a penguin and it's ok. > > Who are you buying your hardware from? > > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 19:52:35 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with shared SCSI buses.. Message-ID: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> This is a Really Weird Configuration(tm), but I'll just see what you folks think of it.. At work, my boss and I are trying to get Linux going on our Sun boxes. Well, we know that the OS itself works, but the applications are problematic. For those who were watching previously when I asked around for application support on Linux/Sparc, I'll say that we have had luck with one package (out of 5) - SAS. We haven't actually tried it yet, but I talked to a rep there who said it would work on our systems. Since only some software is available for Linux/Sparc, we're stuck with Solaris, at least on one or two systems. My boss has long had the idea that we should have two servers connected to our A1000 array where our users' home directories are stored, so that we can fail over from one server to the other in our NFS configuration. Of course, since we'd like to get at least one of these systems running Linux, things get really interesting. I've successfully attached two systems together, and had them both reading the array at the same time (though, in normal operation, I'm expecting only one system would have the array mounted at a time). I think we can get this to work, but I'm curious about a few things: * How similar/different are Linux and Solaris NFS servers? Will a client be able to failover to a Linux server from a Solaris server without going nuts? * The Linux UFS driver handles the UFS variants in slightly different ways. How well can the Linux driver read/write Sun's implementation? Am I going to end up with a corrupted filesystem if I dare to try it? * On my test setup, the Solaris box sees the A1000 array at SCSI ID 0, but the Linux systems sees it as SCSI ID 7. Anyone have an explanation? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Black holes really suck... / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010627/014bd5ad/attachment.pgp From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Jun 27 19:55:01 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? References: <20010627190312.E5238@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B3A8065.6040309@ringworld.org> Bob Tanner wrote > Who are you buying your hardware from? Dell, Reason. Both are selling us solid systems. The reason boxes have been pretty close to the edge of 'brand new damn hardware that doesn't work with some configurations' though. Be weary. Dell has been pretty solid. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 19:57:42 2001 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? Message-ID: <010627195742.20353444@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Here's the info I have on Western Scientific: Western Scientific 9445 Farnham St. San Diego, CA 92123 800-443-6699 858-565-6938 Fax Juan Mena-Aguayo x255 Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Jun 27 19:57:42 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: <993587740.3b38f21c0cf81@dragon> <200106271626.f5RGQ2118245@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20010627161740.A2783@blackice.localdomain> Message-ID: <3B3A8106.7060208@ringworld.org> >>didn't know, but it should be OK. I had an several Micron part numbers from >>the Crucial web site that were guaranteed to work with this board, but Tran >>wasn't selling Micron when I was there (last week). I agree with Gabe, if you know what you want go to GNS or do mail order. Get *exactly* what you want. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jun 27 19:58:00 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > Who are you buying your hardware from? Sun. -Yaron -- From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Jun 27 19:58:25 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: <200106271626.f5RGQ2118245@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from jurupari@geocities.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:25:38AM -0500 <200106272223.f5RMNn113437@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3B3A8131.70800@ringworld.org> Mike wrote: > Perhaps I should have. I have never been there, but I had the feeling that most > people thought less of the service at GNS. Next time I am down that way, I > should probably stop in. I don't. GNS is where I go for the parts I need now, not tommrow. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 27 20:28:27 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rpm and .rpmrc Message-ID: <20010627202827.I5238@real-time.com> Anyone able to get their .rpmrc to work correctly for defining new macros? $ rpm -q rpm rpm-4.0.2-6x I want to define a new macro for which java compiler I use in rpms, but it seems like rpm just ignores all entries in my ~/.rpmrc file. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jun 27 20:59:10 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /USR/SBIN/CRON - known bad juju? Message-ID: <20010627205910.B7845@sherohman.org> I just happened to catch /USR/SBIN/CRON in the output of ps, which strikes me as suspicious because it's in all caps instead of all lowercase. I ran strings over /usr/sbin/cron, and everything looks normal, but I'm wondering whether this is something normal, part of a known rootkit's signature, or something completely weird. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 21:42:08 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? In-Reply-To: ; from blutgens@sistina.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:52:52PM -0500 References: <20010627190312.E5238@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010627214208.A19043@squall.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:52:52PM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Western Scientific. Great Service, they get linux. Can roll large or > small stuff in short order and great prices. I just recently ordered > 31 1U nodes in 3 half racks with FC JBODs, NPS's and they arrived in > these kick ass crates. Fantastic hardware great prices. > > I don't have their number with me now. I'll post it tomorrow. Well, we buy our Intel-based machines from Dell, but I have to agree with Ben that Western Scientific is _the_ place to go for good, reasonably priced storage arrays. We have 5 RAIDs from them and they're all great. Of course, we have them hooked to a few SGI Origin 200's, no Linux machines. If you _really_ high quality RAIDs, go to Ciprico. They're a local company, and their stuff is really top-notch. Though, you need to have serious money. A 500GB Netarray from them is about $50k (well, that's with dual fiber-channel loops) - worth every penny. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 21:57:40 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with shared SCSI buses.. In-Reply-To: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:52:35PM -0500 References: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010627215740.B19043@squall.localdomain> Well, it's just my opinion, but this sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Why are you going to be running Linux on your Suns? Solaris is much better suited to them. If the software you need is on Solaris, why not stay with Solaris? Concerning the failing over: How are you planning on accomplishing that? A daemon on the backup machine that polls the main server and if it goes down, the back up server mounts the disk and exports it? How are you going to get your clients to "fail over" to using a new server? When ever you need to remount an NFS filesystem, you need to kill off any processes that are using it (umount -k). I guess the first thing I thought of to solve your failing over problem would be to use a SAN with a not-so-platform-specific clustered filesystem like Dataplow or Tivoli SANergy (or GFS it supported anything but Linux). Then you could have both your servers hooked to some fiber channel disk and setup redundant metadata servers for your clustered FS. Unfortunately, you still have the problem of getting your NFS clients to remount the filesystem(s) from the back up server... Unless you put every machine on the SAN, but that you put anyone in the poor house... A SAN requires a little more than pocket-change, however... My $.02. BTW: If you _do_ figure out how to get your NFS clients to "fail over" to a new server, I'd _love_ to know how you did it. I'm facing a similar problem at the moment. Gabe On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:52:35PM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > This is a Really Weird Configuration(tm), but I'll just see what you folks > think of it.. > > At work, my boss and I are trying to get Linux going on our Sun boxes. > Well, we know that the OS itself works, but the applications are > problematic. For those who were watching previously when I asked around > for application support on Linux/Sparc, I'll say that we have had luck > with one package (out of 5) - SAS. We haven't actually tried it yet, but > I talked to a rep there who said it would work on our systems. > > Since only some software is available for Linux/Sparc, we're stuck with > Solaris, at least on one or two systems. > > My boss has long had the idea that we should have two servers connected to > our A1000 array where our users' home directories are stored, so that we > can fail over from one server to the other in our NFS configuration. Of > course, since we'd like to get at least one of these systems running > Linux, things get really interesting. > > I've successfully attached two systems together, and had them both reading > the array at the same time (though, in normal operation, I'm expecting > only one system would have the array mounted at a time). > > I think we can get this to work, but I'm curious about a few things: > > * How similar/different are Linux and Solaris NFS servers? Will a client > be able to failover to a Linux server from a Solaris server without > going nuts? > > * The Linux UFS driver handles the UFS variants in slightly different > ways. How well can the Linux driver read/write Sun's implementation? > Am I going to end up with a corrupted filesystem if I dare to try it? > > * On my test setup, the Solaris box sees the A1000 array at SCSI ID 0, but > the Linux systems sees it as SCSI ID 7. Anyone have an explanation? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 27 22:30:28 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? In-Reply-To: <20010627214208.A19043@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Gabe Turner wrote: > machines. If you _really_ high quality RAIDs, go to Ciprico. They're a > local company, and their stuff is really top-notch. Though, you need to > have serious money. A 500GB Netarray from them is about $50k (well, that's > with dual fiber-channel loops) - worth every penny. I don't know how they stack up for quality, but for a local co. that does good high performance storage, Rorke Data were always good to me. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 00:34:25 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with shared SCSI buses.. In-Reply-To: <20010627215740.B19043@squall.localdomain> References: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010627215740.B19043@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010628003425.1a33e12a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Gabe Turner wrote: > > Well, it's just my opinion, but this sounds like an accident waiting to > happen. Yeah > Why are you going to be running Linux on your Suns? * Secure services like ssh * Better password hashes like MD5 * Package management that works * Better default syslog configuration * Support for serial console faster than 9600bps * Solaris emulation (to an extent) * Shells and utilities that work * Never having to compile fileutils ever again * Support for advanced filesystems like GFS, ReiserFS, XFS * No /usr/ccs, /usr/ucb, or /usr/xpg4 to confuse people with * Some nifty GUIs to choose from * It's good for the sanity of users and administrators > Solaris is much better suited to them. Solaris might be better suited to the hardware, but Linux is better suited to the human beings. If these systems didn't have people logging into them, I'd be a little less likely to want to move to Linux, but as it stands, I don't want to force people to use Bourne Shell, for instance -- it's just morally wrong ;-) Anyway, I guess it's a subjective opinion. I'll have to run some benchmarks sometime and see how Linux stacks up.. > Concerning the failing over: How are you planning on accomplishing that? It'd be a largely manual deal (I suppose `hot spare' might be a better term, but I'm not sure). I don't need anything that can automagically do it instantly. That'd be nice, but I'm just looking for a way to keep operating minimally while one of the servers is worked on. Remounting and killing processes is an annoyance, but it's not going to make the sky fall in.. It is a good point, though, and something I still have to think about.. Of course, it'd probably be just as big of a problem whether I was doing Linux or Solaris. Ideally, I'd like both ends to be running Linux and GFS, though I was considering looking into any other similar solutions available cross-platform.. > BTW: If you _do_ figure out how to get your NFS clients to "fail over" > to a new server, I'd _love_ to know how you did it. I'm facing a > similar problem at the moment. Well, the only way I know how to do anything like that is to specify multiple systems to mount from with an automounter daemon. I'm not sure, off the top of my head, if they can handle a server disappearing after a filesystem has been mounted, or if they only handle that stuff at mount-time.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A closed mouth gathers no / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ feet. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010628/241ab83b/attachment.pgp From jay-tclug at 3pound.com Thu Jun 28 03:09:33 2001 From: jay-tclug at 3pound.com (Jay J) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <012f01c0ff22$65b9cbe0$3028680a@tgt.com> References: <20010626150129.B18886@real-time.com> <20010627101631.42fbf366.jay-tclug@3pound.com> <012f01c0ff22$65b9cbe0$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20010628030933.07a4c50d.jay-tclug@3pound.com> On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:01:15 -0500 "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote: > Athlon might crap out on you in 1 week, or 10 minutes. Overheating > problem, yada yada yada. Well, you can just drive down to GNS or TM > and get it replaced. Good luck doing that online, and chances are, > the price you are given is OEM and you only have 30 days on it anyway. Overheating == user error. Overclocking or not. (No offense) I'm not trying to debate the particulars here .. but, in my experience - the only "bad CPU" I've encountered was a PI-100 that was garbage to begin with, and free-to-me. My gripe: The cheap mail order shops are never HQ'd in my home town .. Or, similarily, what's stopping local shops from doing the required volume (online) to compete? Simple, money, overhead -- why run a huge shop that makes a lot of money when low-volume & higher-prices results in the same bottomline. Doesn't help me though. CPU's, motherboards, HD's? By the time *most* of them die, they aren't worth the price of shipping/gas anyway. Unless you're ordering bulk for BigTime, Inc. .. why spend the money? To each his own, but I'll continue to agressively pennypinch and save $10 + $24 + $15 == additional component. Not to drag this out unncessarily, but in comparison shopping -- if one is truly interested in repair/warranty/support and doesn't mind the dirty feeling associated with free M$ software, buy a Gateway/Dell/*. One last note: Aside from hardware guides and hardware pass/fail websites, does a "I bought this, this was my experience" matrix exist out there? Link it up with strongnumbers.com and I'd check it before purchasing. -Jay From moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net Thu Jun 28 05:54:18 2001 From: moomonk at rogue.electricgod.net (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with shared SCSI buses.. In-Reply-To: <20010628003425.1a33e12a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:34:25AM -0500 References: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20010627215740.B19043@squall.localdomain> <20010628003425.1a33e12a.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010628055418.B67702@rogue.electricgod.net> Amend 'Better password hashes like SHA'. MD5 is deprecated. And Solaris is supposed to handle ssh just as well as Linux. It's not as if OpenSSH is native to either - it's a port from OpenBSD. Josh On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:34:25AM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > Gabe Turner wrote: > > > > Well, it's just my opinion, but this sounds like an accident waiting to > > happen. > > Yeah > > > Why are you going to be running Linux on your Suns? > > * Secure services like ssh > * Better password hashes like MD5 > * Package management that works > * Better default syslog configuration > * Support for serial console faster than 9600bps > * Solaris emulation (to an extent) > * Shells and utilities that work > * Never having to compile fileutils ever again > * Support for advanced filesystems like GFS, ReiserFS, XFS > * No /usr/ccs, /usr/ucb, or /usr/xpg4 to confuse people with > * Some nifty GUIs to choose from > * It's good for the sanity of users and administrators > > > Solaris is much better suited to them. > > Solaris might be better suited to the hardware, but Linux is better suited > to the human beings. > > If these systems didn't have people logging into them, I'd be a little > less likely to want to move to Linux, but as it stands, I don't want to > force people to use Bourne Shell, for instance -- it's just morally wrong > ;-) > > Anyway, I guess it's a subjective opinion. I'll have to run some > benchmarks sometime and see how Linux stacks up.. > > > Concerning the failing over: How are you planning on accomplishing that? > > It'd be a largely manual deal (I suppose `hot spare' might be a better > term, but I'm not sure). I don't need anything that can automagically do > it instantly. That'd be nice, but I'm just looking for a way to keep > operating minimally while one of the servers is worked on. Remounting and > killing processes is an annoyance, but it's not going to make the sky fall > in.. > > It is a good point, though, and something I still have to think about.. > Of course, it'd probably be just as big of a problem whether I was doing > Linux or Solaris. Ideally, I'd like both ends to be running Linux and > GFS, though I was considering looking into any other similar solutions > available cross-platform.. > > > BTW: If you _do_ figure out how to get your NFS clients to "fail over" > > to a new server, I'd _love_ to know how you did it. I'm facing a > > similar problem at the moment. > > Well, the only way I know how to do anything like that is to specify > multiple systems to mount from with an automounter daemon. I'm not sure, > off the top of my head, if they can handle a server disappearing after a > filesystem has been mounted, or if they only handle that stuff at > mount-time.. > > -- > _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A closed mouth gathers no > / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ feet. > \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) > [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 07:18:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <20010628030933.07a4c50d.jay-tclug@3pound.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Jay J wrote: > One last note: Aside from hardware guides and hardware pass/fail > websites, does a "I bought this, this was my experience" matrix exist > out there? Link it up with strongnumbers.com and I'd check it before > purchasing. That'd be interesting. You know what I'd like to see? A matrix that not only has people's experiences, but also some info about *them*. You see, in a past life as an electronics service manager, I learned that some people have bad equipment karma, while for some (like me -- not an asset in that job) no piece of equipment will fail. Every time I read about a bad experience, I can't help but think "What happens if you try the same mobo/memory/disk with a different user?" -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jun 28 08:32:23 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering Message-ID: I have several SCSI disks on my computer, and occasionally I disconnect one or two of them (ie, Zip drive, external hard drive, etc). The problem is the device files reorder themselves if I don't boot with the same devices all the time. This means fstab is not right, and I have to mount things manually (after figuring out what device is where). Is there a way to force the devices to maintain their id's? Jay -- Jay Publishing Business Systems 651-634-9217 From cargods at anubis.network.com Thu Jun 28 08:56:01 2001 From: cargods at anubis.network.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations Message-ID: <200106281356.IAA27530@rainier.network.com> > From: Jay J > Not to drag this out unncessarily, but in comparison shopping -- if one > is truly interested in repair/warranty/support and doesn't mind the > dirty feeling associated with free M$ software, buy a Gateway/Dell/*. > ... > -Jay Actually, buying a Gateway, Dell, Compaq, or HP would be fine by me (and sort of started this chain with my question about "A new PC"), if there were models that people (on this list specifically, but anybody in general) found to be adequately Linux compatible. I don't know what people think about buying systems from Dell or Gateway mail order, or going to CompUSA, Best Buy, or wherever to get HP or other retail systems. I would be interested in people's experiences. dsc From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Thu Jun 28 09:08:53 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree. The old "mechanic's syndrome." I have users here that can make the most bulletproof system crash, and I have some that can take the worst piece of junk and it will run like a charm. But, how would you quantify/qualify that in a database? A series of questions: How many times in the past year has your mobo died, how many times have you replaced your cpu because of failure, etc? How many times/day do you reboot because of equipment lock up...oh wait, that's normal for MS :( Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 | |That'd be interesting. You know what I'd like to see? A matrix that not |only has people's experiences, but also some info about *them*. You see, |in a past life as an electronics service manager, I learned that some |people have bad equipment karma, while for some (like me -- not an asset |in that job) no piece of equipment will fail. | |Every time I read about a bad experience, I can't help but think "What |happens if you try the same mobo/memory/disk with a different user?" From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jun 28 09:07:52 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Boot time services In-Reply-To: <20010627184028.05549f78.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:40:28PM -0500 References: <3B3A2668.95D7A030@eetc.com> <20010627184028.05549f78.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010628090752.B12643@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:40:28PM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > Maybe the Debian folks can explain the proper way to use update-rc.d? > I've tried to use it before, but it never seems to work as advertised. > > I've usually tried > > /usr/sbin/update-rc.d inetd remove > > ..but it doesn't seem to touch the symlinks in /etc/rc*.d Is this the > right syntax for disabling services? Yes, it's the right syntax, just mismatched assumptions. If I may quote from the manpage... REMOVING SCRIPTS When invoked with the remove option, update-rc.d removes any links in the /etc/rcrunlevel.d directories to the script /etc/init.d/name. The script must have been deleted already - update-rc.d checks for this. update- ... OPTIONS ... -f Force removal of symlinks even if /etc/init.d/name still exists. I'm not entirely sure _why_, but, for some reason, update-rc.d assumes that if you tell it to remove symlinks pointing at a file that still exists, you don't really mean it. What you really want for this sort of thing, IMO, is a 'disable'/'enable' option which just finds the existing links and change the leading S/K to lowercase (diasble) or uppercase (enable) without changing the sequencing. If you truly want to remove the service for all time instead of just temporarily disabling it, `dpkg --purge` or `apt-get remove` seem like better choices than anything update-rc.d will do by itself. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 28 09:17:01 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What order are your SCSI ID's in? My hard drives are 1 and 2, cdroms 3 and 4, external MO is 5, Zip disk is 6. ID1 is always sda, ID2 always sdb, ID3 scd0, ID4 scd1, ID5 sdc, ID6 sdd. The only exception to the rule would be if I added a hard drive on device 0, that devices would start as sda, or if I attached the zip drive and not the mo drive, the Zip drive would then be sdc. Linux pretty much makes the assumption that if you're changing the scsi chain you have the access needed to mount the drives and modify fstab. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From jh at sgi.com Thu Jun 28 09:19:50 2001 From: jh at sgi.com (John Hesterberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Utility for cluster Install (LUI) In-Reply-To: <200106272241.f5RMf2K29044@sprite.real-time.com>; from jwanderson@uswest.net on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:41:00PM -0500 References: <200106272241.f5RMf2K29044@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010628091950.D3198@sgi.com> IBM is definitely putting a lot of effort into it. When I've tried it, it was pretty difficult to use, but I'm sure it's getting better. Depending on what you want to do, you can also look at OSCAR, which includes LUI. LUI is being renamed System Installer, and joing forces with System Imager to create something called the System Installation Suite. http://systeminstaller.sourceforge.net/ http://systemimager.org/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/systemconfig LUI has always concerned me that it was duplicated much of the hard work that distributions put into hardware detection, etc. System Imager, on the other hands, let's the distribution do that, and then picks up from there. If you want something now, I'd look at SystemImager, and then see how the suite develops... John On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:41:00PM -0500, Jay W. Anderson wrote: > Anybody looked at this? I stumbled across it this evening. It looks > ;like it could have some merit. > > http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/projects/lui > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jun 28 09:24:11 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? In-Reply-To: <20010627190312.E5238@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:03:12PM -0500 References: <20010627190312.E5238@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010628092411.C12643@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:03:12PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > So, whom should we switch to? Any recommendations? > > We got a penguin and it's ok. > > Who are you buying your hardware from? I've had good experiences with Pogo (www.buypogo.com). They only sell Linux boxen and their prices seem to be pretty good. They focus on the desktop and low- to mid-range server market - "hot swap" is not a part of their vocabulary. If you need redundancy, though, their prices are low enough that you can just buy a spare machine instead. And I just brought up their page to verify the address and discovered that they've already got dual AMD systems... -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 09:26:47 2001 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010628092647.6cf04d00.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Jay Kline" wrote: > > I have several SCSI disks on my computer, and occasionally I disconnect > one or two of them (ie, Zip drive, external hard drive, etc). The > problem is the device files reorder themselves if I don't boot with the > same devices all the time. This means fstab is not right, and I have to > mount things manually (after figuring out what device is where). Is > there a way to force the devices to maintain their id's? You could use devfs (device filesystem) or find the utility `scsidev' and have that run early on in the boot process (ie, one of the first lines in /etc/rc.sysinit or whatever the correct script is on your system) http://www.torque.net/scsi/linux_scsi_24/dnamesdevfs.html http://www.torque.net/scsi/linux_scsi_24/dnamesscsidev.html http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/scsidev/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Why can't you be a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ non-conformist like \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) everyone else? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010628/0b9e7efb/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jun 28 09:45:49 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is my setup: Hard drive ID: 0 Hard drive ID: 1 Hard drive ID: 2 Hard Drive ID: 3 CDROM ID: 4 ZIP Disk ID: 5 Scanner ID: 6 The scanner, the zip disk, and the hard drive on ID 3 get removed periodically. There really isn't a problem except with the hard drive. Because the Zip and scanner can only be set to ID's 5-6, and my Cdrom can only do ID's 2 and 4 (don't ask :-), I am pretty much set to this setup. That and it looks pretty when loading to see all the hard drives in a row :-) I am more than capable of modifying fstab (or just manually mounting it) it just is a pain. Jay -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:17 AM To: tclug Subject: Re: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering What order are your SCSI ID's in? My hard drives are 1 and 2, cdroms 3 and 4, external MO is 5, Zip disk is 6. ID1 is always sda, ID2 always sdb, ID3 scd0, ID4 scd1, ID5 sdc, ID6 sdd. The only exception to the rule would be if I added a hard drive on device 0, that devices would start as sda, or if I attached the zip drive and not the mo drive, the Zip drive would then be sdc. Linux pretty much makes the assumption that if you're changing the scsi chain you have the access needed to mount the drives and modify fstab. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jun 28 09:51:01 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? References: Message-ID: <3B3B4455.9040306@ringworld.org> Ben Lutgens wrote: > Western Scientific. Great Service, they get linux. Can roll large or > small stuff in short order and great prices. I just recently ordered > 31 1U nodes in 3 half racks with FC JBODs, NPS's and they arrived in > these kick ass crates. Fantastic hardware great prices. So-so. When someone ordered a beowoulf cluster from them we ended up with systems without serverworks boards. I wasn't happy. Our new 2u box from reason has a serverworks board. I'm happy. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 10:03:38 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > ID1 is always sda, ID2 always sdb, ID3 scd0, ID4 scd1, ID5 sdc, ID6 sdd. > The only exception to the rule would be if I added a hard drive on device > 0, that devices would start as sda, or if I attached the zip drive and not > the mo drive, the Zip drive would then be sdc. I think you meant this in the context of your system. Jay is talking about the logical/physical assignment of sda <-> [first drive found], when what he wants is a static sda <-> [ID1 whether it's there or not]. The first way around it that I though of is to run VMS, but that's not particularly useful. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From amy at real-time.com Thu Jun 28 10:13:22 2001 From: amy at real-time.com (amy tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall Message-ID: <00c901c0ffe4$e2545d60$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Anyone have experience with ISA server? I'm looking for comparisons with it and other firewalls, specifically iptables, and any other gotchas. thanks. amy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010628/c7ec1887/attachment.html From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jun 28 10:09:41 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exactly right. Mike Hicks mentioned devfs or scsidev.. anyone have any experience with these? Will this do what I want? Jay -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Phil Mendelsohn Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:04 AM To: tclug Subject: Re: [TCLUG] SCSI device ordering On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > ID1 is always sda, ID2 always sdb, ID3 scd0, ID4 scd1, ID5 sdc, ID6 sdd. > The only exception to the rule would be if I added a hard drive on device > 0, that devices would start as sda, or if I attached the zip drive and not > the mo drive, the Zip drive would then be sdc. I think you meant this in the context of your system. Jay is talking about the logical/physical assignment of sda <-> [first drive found], when what he wants is a static sda <-> [ID1 whether it's there or not]. The first way around it that I though of is to run VMS, but that's not particularly useful. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jun 28 10:04:39 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VA replacement? In-Reply-To: <3B3B4455.9040306@ringworld.org>; from dieman@ringworld.org on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:51:01AM -0400 References: <3B3B4455.9040306@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20010628100439.A1357@minime.sistina.com> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:51:01AM -0400, Scott M. Dier wrote: >Ben Lutgens wrote: > >> Western Scientific. Great Service, they get linux. Can roll large or >> small stuff in short order and great prices. I just recently ordered >> 31 1U nodes in 3 half racks with FC JBODs, NPS's and they arrived in >> these kick ass crates. Fantastic hardware great prices. > >So-so. When someone ordered a beowoulf cluster from them we ended up >with systems without serverworks boards. I wasn't happy. Our new 2u >box from reason has a serverworks board. I'm happy. I got all serverworks boards in my boxen. > >-- >Scott Dier >http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010628/d93e8f74/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 28 10:39:58 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A8288@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> My roommate has played with it a little, however, he knows nothing about iptables, so he wouldn't be able to give you a very good comparison. What do you need to know about it? I know a couple others who have used/played with it also, but none of them know a thing about Linux. Jay -----Original Message----- From: amy tanner [mailto:amy@real-time.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:13 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall Anyone have experience with ISA server? I'm looking for comparisons with it and other firewalls, specifically iptables, and any other gotchas. thanks. amy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010628/dbc461bc/attachment.html From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 28 10:44:30 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl oneliner Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A8289@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Awhile back, someone posted a perl oneliner which would delimit special characters in whatever you piped through it. Could someone post it here if they remember it? I looked through the archives, but it's hidden in some message that had a completely different subject. I have a bunch of stuff that I need to pipe through xargs, and some of it has single quotes in it, and other weird characters that get interpreted incorrectly. Jay From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Thu Jun 28 10:56:46 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl oneliner Message-ID: quotemeta? >>> austad@marketwatch.com 06/28/01 10:44AM >>> Awhile back, someone posted a perl oneliner which would delimit special characters in whatever you piped through it. Could someone post it here if they remember it? I looked through the archives, but it's hidden in some message that had a completely different subject. I have a bunch of stuff that I need to pipe through xargs, and some of it has single quotes in it, and other weird characters that get interpreted incorrectly. Jay _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mccloud at wiredhot.net Thu Jun 28 10:58:22 2001 From: mccloud at wiredhot.net (Bob McCloud) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor In-Reply-To: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05CCDAA6@msgmsp15.norwest.com> Message-ID: <3B3B0DCE.19217.115B83ED@localhost> On 26 Jun 2001, at 13:49, Phillip.J.Crump@WellsFargo.COM wrote: Date sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:49:15 -0500 > I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one > for sale??? > I have two 15" that I could part with. And I still have that Cisco 804 ISDN router if anyone is interested. Bob From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 28 11:14:46 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A828C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I'm moving to the wild city of Brooklyn park in under a month, and I don't want to move my Tektronix Phaser II dye sublimation color printer. It works just fine. I've tried to sell/trade it here before, and the only interesting thing that came up was a sun monitor, which I may still be interested in. Anyway, if you've never seen the output of a dye sub printer, it's pretty much just like a photo. It prints on glossy paper, and I have a couple of toner/celophane/whatever-it-uses refills. So, if anyone wants it, make me an offer. I'd be willing to trade for a black and white laser printer since I'll get more use out of that, or anything else interesting that someone might have. Money is good too though. Jay From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 28 11:30:38 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: <00c901c0ffe4$e2545d60$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: The more I use netfilter (iptables) the more I love it. As for Microsoft, well, to start with it's Microsoft, so it is most likely ungodly expensive, the licensing will rape you (per user, per server, per connection, but don't put it past them to go to per hit so that you have to shell out a few pennies for every web hit.) To eliminate as many security issues as possible a firewall should be a firewall. Not some blown up os with many a secuiryt hole and alpha channel menus. Idealy, a firewall should be some sorte of embedded thing. But that's not going to be a reality for most homes, home offices, and small businesses. In comes a lightweight small free *NIX box. (Open, Free, Net BSD, Linux, etc.) Security problems can be minimized by only installing a minimum system with next to no services (ssh is all you need right?) and creating a good firewall. There are GUI tools, but it would be better to run these on a workstation then transfer the results to the firewall by ssh. Now the MS soultion. First, you need a box big enough to run Windows 2000. What's the minimum? p166 wit 128mb of ram? yeah, it will run on that, but not well. Get a decent box. 500mhz+ with at least 128mb ram, 256 is even better. You can get away with a 486 with 16-32mb RAM with Linux/BSD. Then, look at the cost of Windows 2000 Server. (You're not going to run Pro as a firewall!) Ouch huh? Now tack on the ISA stuff. Does it hurt yet? Did you forget to factor in that MS is moving to subscription based licensin in October and if you don't get current by then you'll loose and upgrade discounts? Painful isn't it. Then you have all the services that Windows 2000 will want to run by default. Ick. Sure you can close them off with the firewall, but you should be able to close them down before the firewall software is installed. Then theres the remote administraton thing. With UNIX ssh is all you need. With Windows 2000, you have to enable Terminal Services. Terminal Services is definitly something you don't want to deal with on a firewall. As for technical merits of the firewalls themselves, not the merits of the os: iptables just plain rocks. There's a reason we moved from MS firewall/proxy to Linux ipchains. I wasn't working here at the time so I can't tell you what it is, but read above and you should get the idea. iptables is easy, it can also be fustratingly hard. In most cases, easy. Doing redirection, transparent proxy/cache, and other nifty things gets interesting, but there's no lack of documentation. In the end, I strongly encourage you not to even consider microsoft or 3rd party software firewall running on a MS operating system. Very biased I know, but if you wanted an unbiased opinion, you wouldn't be asking a Linux Users Group. My firewall recomendations goes like this: embedded hardware device (Linksys, Netgear, and other little firewall router things don't count) Linux or OpenBSD unplug from network Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 28 11:38:48 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A828F@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Then theres the remote administraton thing. With UNIX ssh is > all you need. > With Windows 2000, you have to enable Terminal Services. > Terminal Services > is definitly something you don't want to deal with on a firewall. I love how the default install of TS has the "Shutdown" button enabled on it. Wanna have some fun? Scan a bunch of class C's for port 3389, TS into the box, and click "shutdown". :) You can disable this behavior, but most people don't. Sad. From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 28 11:41:03 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: <00c901c0ffe4$e2545d60$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, amy tanner wrote: > Anyone have experience with ISA server? I'm looking for comparisons with it and other firewalls, specifically iptables, and any other gotchas. thanks. I just have to know, why do you ask this? My gut reaction is that firewalls should be their own box, which means an extra Windows license, which means a Linksys/Netgear/etc firewall router thingy would be cheaper, and of course a Linux/*BSD486 box would be even cheaper yet so really, I just have to ask why :-) -brian From amy at real-time.com Thu Jun 28 11:57:38 2001 From: amy at real-time.com (amy tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall References: Message-ID: <012001c0fff3$73289870$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> The customer has already purchased it and I'm looking for ammo against it so I can put in a linux firewall :) I know all the general Microsoft security sucks stuff, was hoping for some specific ammo I could use. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, amy tanner wrote: > > > Anyone have experience with ISA server? I'm looking for comparisons with it and other firewalls, specifically iptables, and any other gotchas. thanks. > > I just have to know, why do you ask this? My gut reaction is that > firewalls should be their own box, which means an extra Windows license, > which means a Linksys/Netgear/etc firewall router thingy would be cheaper, > and of course a Linux/*BSD486 box would be even cheaper yet so really, I > just have to ask why :-) > > -brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 28 11:50:54 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A8293@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Check out Astaro Linux (http://www.astaro.com) if you haven't already. Kind of bloated for a firewall, but has lots of reporting and intrusion detection capabilities, and kernel 2.4. The makers of it have a box with 24 ethernet interfaces (6 4 port intel cards) running. This would make it an excellent solution for a company/ISP who needs connections to lots of other company's networks. I use Cisco PIX's, and they are limited to 6 interfaces, although I think the new one (PIX 535) supports more. Astaro is free for non-commercial use, but they want you to pay for commercial use. I don't know how they plan to enforce that though since it's all GPL software (as far as I can tell). Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:41 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall > > > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, amy tanner wrote: > > > Anyone have experience with ISA server? I'm looking for > comparisons with it and other firewalls, specifically > iptables, and any other gotchas. thanks. > > I just have to know, why do you ask this? My gut reaction is that > firewalls should be their own box, which means an extra > Windows license, > which means a Linksys/Netgear/etc firewall router thingy > would be cheaper, > and of course a Linux/*BSD486 box would be even cheaper yet > so really, I > just have to ask why :-) > > -brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu Jun 28 12:02:30 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SuperSPARC 10, Linux and snort/ACID problems - HELP Message-ID: <3B3B6322.8FE85A06@eetc.com> I have a SS10 running as a firewall and am trying to get snort running. We are trying to set it up with a postgresql database and ACID. It was working with a x86 machine but the SS10 seems to have some date problems. How do I set the date in the prom? Is it Y2K compliant (I have no idea. It has reset back to 1969. I thought it was but am not sure anymore). Is there a upgrade path for this machine if it isn't? Battery replacement? I think that is the only problem right now. Postgresql keeps complaining about the date and dies. Snort seems to be running great except not the way we want it to. We have the same problem with our Alpha server. Is there any way to fix that too? I don't really know how the Alpha systems are set up but this is all the information I could get quickly. The processor id is EV56 The computer model is RPX and Deskstation is on the case in big letters so that might mean something. :-) Anyone know what the problem is or how to fix it? Will we have to upgrade some proms (if that is even possible)? Any help is appreciated sim From joel at luths.net Thu Jun 28 13:27:20 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993752840.3b3b770868fc9@www.luths.net> I bought a case from GNS a while back that was advertised with a 250W PS, when I got it home I found a 230W. I brought it back, they checked their stock and all the cases had 230W (surprise). Must have been a goof up by their supplier, they said. Check back in a couple weeks, maybe the new shipment will have 250W. I wasn't too happy, as I expected this case to be full of stuff by the next day and it wouldn't be so easy to exchange it. Look, they said, a 230W PS is going to be plenty good anyway. I don't think they quite got the point. Besides, no one made a move to correct their white board that still had the case listed as 250W. I wasn't too impressed. Quoting Colin Kilbane : > I've bought a few things from gns and have not had a problem there too, > but I havn't had to return anything either, so I havn't dealt with them > on > that issue. GNS seems to be set up for the computer geek, like a lot of > us out there. You know what you need and how to use it. I referr less > educated people to TM cause I know that they will get what they want and > need and that they will have some place to go for help. > Colin Kilbane > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jun 28 13:38:27 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <993752840.3b3b770868fc9@www.luths.net> Message-ID: My experiences with GNS have been pretty much what you would expect when walking into the store. Most of the employees are students, so they are bound to make mistakes. Its almost like a CompUSA on steroids. The nice thing about it is the majority of them care, (even if they do make mistakes) and they have dirt cheap prices on some things. Most of my experiences with them have been good, but they have screwed me over on cases (they do seem to have a problem with those, don't they?) and with RJ45 ends. WYSIWYG Jay -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of joel@luths.net Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:27 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New system recommendations I bought a case from GNS a while back that was advertised with a 250W PS, when I got it home I found a 230W. I brought it back, they checked their stock and all the cases had 230W (surprise). Must have been a goof up by their supplier, they said. Check back in a couple weeks, maybe the new shipment will have 250W. I wasn't too happy, as I expected this case to be full of stuff by the next day and it wouldn't be so easy to exchange it. Look, they said, a 230W PS is going to be plenty good anyway. I don't think they quite got the point. Besides, no one made a move to correct their white board that still had the case listed as 250W. I wasn't too impressed. Quoting Colin Kilbane : > I've bought a few things from gns and have not had a problem there too, > but I havn't had to return anything either, so I havn't dealt with them > on > that issue. GNS seems to be set up for the computer geek, like a lot of > us out there. You know what you need and how to use it. I referr less > educated people to TM cause I know that they will get what they want and > need and that they will have some place to go for help. > Colin Kilbane > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dhanson2 at uswest.net Thu Jun 28 13:42:05 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A828C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <005c01c10002$086bed70$eaaf7a81@doug> What model printer is it? What's the PPM, DPI? Price? Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austad, Jay" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer > I'm moving to the wild city of Brooklyn park in under a month, and I don't > want to move my Tektronix Phaser II dye sublimation color printer. It works > just fine. I've tried to sell/trade it here before, and the only > interesting thing that came up was a sun monitor, which I may still be > interested in. > > Anyway, if you've never seen the output of a dye sub printer, it's pretty > much just like a photo. It prints on glossy paper, and I have a couple of > toner/celophane/whatever-it-uses refills. > > So, if anyone wants it, make me an offer. I'd be willing to trade for a > black and white laser printer since I'll get more use out of that, or > anything else interesting that someone might have. Money is good too > though. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 28 13:40:49 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: <012001c0fff3$73289870$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, amy tanner wrote: > The customer has already purchased it and I'm looking for ammo against it so > I can put in a linux firewall :) > Oh, they're allready screwd then. :) The gotchas I'd give them are: remote administration - basically anything that isn't done on the console. RDP is ok, but ssh is better. The new licensing plans - As of October 1, 2001: * Upgrade Licenses (comptitive, version, and product upgrades) will be discontinued. * Upgrade Advantage will be replaced by Software Assurance * There will only be three types of licenses available: 1: Full version license only 2: Software Assurance 3: Combination of the full version license with Software Assurance. http://www.microsoft.com/business/licensing/assurance/open56compare.asp http://www.microsoft.com/business/downloads/licensing/OpenOverview.doc http://www.microsoft.com/business/downloads/licensing/OpenCustomerGuide.doc Security Holes: I'm sure they've heard about security issues with both MS OS and Linux. Point out a few things to them about Linux: The major security breaches would not be present in a firewall setup because such services (use the MS termonolgy when attempting to convert someone. ;) such as DNS (bind) and web (apache) would not and should not be running on the firewall. The only way to gain access to the firewall is via the physical console and ssh. Then, MS: Many of the security issues with Windows would not have gone away simply by disabling the service. Some (not all) where problems with the OS itself. If the OS is flawed from the get go, what's the point of trying to secure it by running another piece of software. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From gabe at msi.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 13:40:30 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fun with shared SCSI buses.. In-Reply-To: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:52:35PM -0500 References: <20010627195235.71ef7e4d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010628134030.A3133@blackice.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 07:52:35PM -0500, Mike Hicks wrote: > This is a Really Weird Configuration(tm), but I'll just see what you folks > think of it.. > > At work, my boss and I are trying to get Linux going on our Sun boxes. > Well, we know that the OS itself works, but the applications are > problematic. For those who were watching previously when I asked around > for application support on Linux/Sparc, I'll say that we have had luck > with one package (out of 5) - SAS. We haven't actually tried it yet, but > I talked to a rep there who said it would work on our systems. I just ran across a usenet thread on NFS failover in linux. Go to http://www.openbg.net/sto/newsread.php?grp=comp.protocols.nfs and read the first thread. They're talking about failover from linux to linux, but the same rules may apply to Linux to Solaris... Although, GFS seems to be the preferred filesystem for such a setup, and it's not supported in Solaris (come on, Sistina! We want GFS on *NIX :). Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jun 28 14:00:05 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: ; from zibby+tclug@ringworld.org on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:40:49PM -0500 References: <012001c0fff3$73289870$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: <20010628140005.K12643@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:40:49PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > * There will only be three types of licenses available: > 1: Full version license only > 2: Software Assurance > 3: Combination of the full version license with Software > Assurance. According to the email I received, this is incorrect: --- What happens on upgrades for licenses purchased after October 1st? After the launch of the new license V6.0 program there will be two ways to buy licenses: as a license only, or as a license plus Software Assurance. Licenses purchased after the launch without Software Assurance will not have upgrade rights to new versions in the future. --- -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu Jun 28 14:08:00 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] cmos hang up References: <200106280402.XAA29318@unix1.sihope.com> Message-ID: <3B3B807E.193AB59@eetc.com> Battery replacement? Sounds like the problem. I would send it back if it's still under waranty. Replacing the battery is really simple but may void the waranty. Best just to let Apple fix it then. If not just go buy a battery and see if that helps. Couldn't hurt. :-) Maybe theres a way to set the clock in the Open Firmware (Open Firmware rocks)? Haven't looked into it though. spencer@sihope.com wrote: > I finally got my airport nic up and running under Linux yesterday. It > was a nice break to the double eth situation I am still working. So I > boot trusty ol' Linux today on the notebook and it hangs on setting up > the cmos clock. It boots into OS x and 9 without any problem. > However, now that I look at the time (osX) it is 12/31/69. I know I set > the time. I also recall yesterday Kde was giving me trouble setting the > time. > I did boot into single user mode and ran clock. The output was 1902 or > something. The notebook is under warranty. Is there a work around to the > cmos clock hang? Maybe running a script to envoke ntp prior to the cmos > clock? I did clear the PRAM, to no avail. sim From spencer at sihope.com Thu Jun 28 14:29:46 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (spencer underground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] cmos hang up In-Reply-To: <3B3B807E.193AB59@eetc.com> References: <200106280402.XAA29318@unix1.sihope.com> <3B3B807E.193AB59@eetc.com> Message-ID: <01062814294601.22774@aaaunderground.mudpiefoods.com> On Thursday 28 June 2001 02:08 pm, you wrote: > Battery replacement? Sounds like the problem. > I would send it back if it's still under waranty. Replacing the battery is > really simple but may void the waranty. Best just to let Apple fix it > then. If not just go buy a battery and see if that helps. Couldn't hurt. > > :-) > > Maybe theres a way to set the clock in the Open Firmware (Open Firmware > rocks)? Haven't looked into it though. > Open Firmware does rock. I believe it is a c derivitive shell. i have been using it a little. I have yet to unleash the full power of it. There is very little documentation I have found on it. It is basically a BIOS on mucho amphetemines. The key to getting my system to tri-boot lies in the magical world of OF. I was just hoping someone knew of a way to boot into linux bypassing the cmos clock setup. It might take me a while to take the computer in for repair. ( what an ugly thought) -- whois microsoft.com From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu Jun 28 14:40:46 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall References: <012001c0fff3$73289870$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> <20010628140005.K12643@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B3B8828.3F7B2BE2@eetc.com> Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:40:49PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > > * There will only be three types of licenses available: > > 1: Full version license only > > 2: Software Assurance > > 3: Combination of the full version license with Software > > Assurance. > According to the email I received, this is incorrect: > > --- > What happens on upgrades for licenses purchased after October 1st? > > After the launch of the new license V6.0 program there will be two ways to > buy licenses: as a license only, or as a license plus Software Assurance. > Licenses purchased after the launch without Software Assurance will not > have upgrade rights to new versions in the future. That sounds even worse. I'm glad I use a Mac. :-) I don't plan on going past Win98 at home. Maybe ME when it supports my hardware. Of course by then Wine will have worked out all it's flaws and I can get my 4GB of game space back. :-) sim From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jun 28 14:40:25 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] netfilter and squid (sanity check) Message-ID: After plaing with netfilter and squid on my home network (shhh! don't tell the roomate! :) to get a transparent proxy/cache setup, I'm trying to do a similar setup at work. At home the firewall and squid box are the same machine, so setting it up isn't too hard to figure out. Here at work, things are a bit more difficult because the squid box isn't the same box as the firewall. This is further complicated by the fact that the squid box is on the internal network, behind the firewall so simply redirecting web traffic from the firewall to the squid box would create a loop. The thought came to me while sitting in traffic (interesting how car fumes give you sparks or genius and/or insanity.) If I first allowed web traffic from the squid box, then redirected everyone else back through the squid box, things should work, right? Well, maybe not. So I'm in need of a sanity check: First, the iptables rules I added were: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth1 -p tcp -s 192.168.1.1 --dport 80 -j ACCEPT iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth1 -p tcp -s ! 192.168.1.1 --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to 192.168.1.1 --to-port 3128 From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jun 28 14:55:45 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bootable Buisness Card logo contest Message-ID: <20010628145545.J18218@real-time.com> any budding linux artists here? http://lnx-bbc.org/contest.html Carl Soderstrom -- "I'll make ya famous!" --Billy the Kid, _Young Guns II_ From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jun 28 15:00:24 2001 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A829F@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> 1/4 PPM :), 300 dpi, Phaser II SDX. I dunno, $150 or so should take it. It was over $4k new. 300dpi doesn't seem like much, but it's a professional quality printer, you have to see the output to appreciate it. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Hanson [mailto:dhanson2@uswest.net] > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:42 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer > > > What model printer is it? What's the PPM, DPI? Price? > > Doug > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Austad, Jay" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:14 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer > > > > I'm moving to the wild city of Brooklyn park in under a > month, and I don't > > want to move my Tektronix Phaser II dye sublimation color > printer. It > works > > just fine. I've tried to sell/trade it here before, and the only > > interesting thing that came up was a sun monitor, which I > may still be > > interested in. > > > > Anyway, if you've never seen the output of a dye sub > printer, it's pretty > > much just like a photo. It prints on glossy paper, and I > have a couple of > > toner/celophane/whatever-it-uses refills. > > > > So, if anyone wants it, make me an offer. I'd be willing > to trade for a > > black and white laser printer since I'll get more use out > of that, or > > anything else interesting that someone might have. Money > is good too > > though. > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Thu Jun 28 15:08:00 2001 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: <3B3B8828.3F7B2BE2@eetc.com> Message-ID: Whatever you do, avoid Windows ME. It sucks big time. I know a firm that adds about 20% to their support contract cost if ME is involved in the support contract. My own personal experience with it was setting up my parents' laptop. Talk about flaky... Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 |-----Original Message----- |From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org |[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Simeon Johnston |Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:41 PM |To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org |Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall | | | | |Dave Sherohman wrote: | |> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:40:49PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: |> > * There will only be three types of licenses available: |> > 1: Full version license only |> > 2: Software Assurance |> > 3: Combination of the full version license with Software |> > Assurance. | |> According to the email I received, this is incorrect: |> |> --- |> What happens on upgrades for licenses purchased after October 1st? |> |> After the launch of the new license V6.0 program there will be |two ways to |> buy licenses: as a license only, or as a license plus Software Assurance. |> Licenses purchased after the launch without Software Assurance will not |> have upgrade rights to new versions in the future. | |That sounds even worse. I'm glad I use a Mac. :-) |I don't plan on going past Win98 at home. Maybe ME when it supports my |hardware. Of course by then Wine will have worked out all it's flaws and I |can get my 4GB of game space back. |:-) | |sim | |_______________________________________________ |tclug-list mailing list |tclug-list@mn-linux.org |https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 28 15:09:16 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: ; from zibby+tclug@ringworld.org on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:30:38AM -0500 References: <00c901c0ffe4$e2545d60$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: <20010628150916.B31821@real-time.com> Quoting Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) (zibby+tclug@ringworld.org): > The more I use netfilter (iptables) the more I love it. As for Microsoft, > well, to start with it's Microsoft, so it is most likely ungodly > expensive, the licensing will rape you (per user, per server, per > connection, but don't put it past them to go to per hit so that you have > to shell out a few pennies for every web hit.) Andy said, Microsoft, security, and firewall all in 1 email. Something must be wrong in the world today. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jun 28 15:09:46 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations References: Message-ID: <3B3B8F0A.8010806@ringworld.org> Jay Kline wrote: > have a problem with those, don't they?) and with RJ45 ends. WYSIWYG Dexis has ReallyCheap(TM) RJ45 Ends. Cabling is another thing. I think they are still pretty pricey. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jun 28 15:13:37 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SuperSPARC 10, Linux and snort/ACID problems - HELP In-Reply-To: <3B3B6322.8FE85A06@eetc.com>; from simeonuj@eetc.com on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:02:30PM -0500 References: <3B3B6322.8FE85A06@eetc.com> Message-ID: <20010628151337.F31821@real-time.com> There was a Y2K testing thingie on www.sun.com that would test your sparc for compliance. Might want to look there. Quoting Simeon Johnston (simeonuj@eetc.com): > I have a SS10 running as a firewall and am trying to get snort running. > We are trying to set it up with a postgresql database and ACID. It was > working with a x86 machine but the SS10 seems to have some date > problems. How do I set the date in the prom? Is it Y2K compliant (I > have no idea. It has reset back to 1969. I thought it was but am not > sure anymore). Is there a upgrade path for this machine if it isn't? > Battery replacement? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jun 28 15:27:10 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: <3B3B8F0A.8010806@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Scott M. Dier wrote: > Dexis has ReallyCheap(TM) RJ45 Ends. How cheap is really cheap? I thought $.10/clip was cheap, is there somewhere local that has them cheaper? Are there bad clips lurking around out there that I should avoid? I have always assumed that a clip was a clip, and when one place has them for $1/clip and another has them for $.10/clip dealer #1 was being greedy. Is there some kind of "low loss plastic" that makes clip #1 better? I use the cheapies and I've never had a bad crimp. -Brian From joel at luths.net Thu Jun 28 16:03:41 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993762221.3b3b9bad09c59@www.luths.net> You're right, they are much better than CompUSA/superstores (not that that's saying much). And if my GNS experience was the worst problem I'd have in my life as a consumer, I'd be plenty happy. Quoting Jay Kline : > My experiences with GNS have been pretty much what you would expect when > walking into the store. Most of the employees are students, so they are > bound to make mistakes. Its almost like a CompUSA on steroids. The > nice > thing about it is the majority of them care, (even if they do make > mistakes) > and they have dirt cheap prices on some things. Most of my experiences > with > them have been good, but they have screwed me over on cases (they do > seem to > have a problem with those, don't they?) and with RJ45 ends. WYSIWYG > > Jay > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of joel@luths.net > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:27 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New system recommendations > > > I bought a case from GNS a while back that was advertised with a 250W > PS, > when > I got it home I found a 230W. I brought it back, they checked their > stock > and > all the cases had 230W (surprise). Must have been a goof up by their > supplier, > they said. Check back in a couple weeks, maybe the new shipment will > have > 250W. > I wasn't too happy, as I expected this case to be full of stuff by the > next > day > and it wouldn't be so easy to exchange it. Look, they said, a 230W PS is > going > to be plenty good anyway. I don't think they quite got the point. > Besides, > no > one made a move to correct their white board that still had the case > listed > as > 250W. I wasn't too impressed. > > Quoting Colin Kilbane : > > > I've bought a few things from gns and have not had a problem there > too, > > but I havn't had to return anything either, so I havn't dealt with > them > > on > > that issue. GNS seems to be set up for the computer geek, like a lot > of > > us out there. You know what you need and how to use it. I referr > less > > educated people to TM cause I know that they will get what they want > and > > need and that they will have some place to go for help. > > Colin Kilbane > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From andy at theasis.com Thu Jun 28 16:23:35 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New system recommendations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Are there bad clips lurking around out there that I should avoid? I have Maybe... > always assumed that a clip was a clip, and when one place has them for > $1/clip and another has them for $.10/clip dealer #1 was being greedy. Is > there some kind of "low loss plastic" that makes clip #1 better? I use > the cheapies and I've never had a bad crimp. The cat-5 standard, in addition to defining the colors you're supposed to wire for different things like Tx and Rx +/-, probably also specifies number of twists per inch and operational results -- like how it must successfully transmit 100MHz without losing more than X dB. The "extended performance" cat-5 is supposed to support 350MHz. So "bad" RJ-45 ends may make it more difficult for you to wire it securely, and could conceivably provide some additional resistance, but practically speaking they're all pretty much the same. Other considerations may have to do with the particular construction of the plastic clip part -- a bad one may not actually connect and lock nicely to your NIC or hub port, or it may be real hard to grasp it to unplug it. See how trivial this is? Andy > -Brian From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jun 28 16:51:35 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft ISA firewall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, James Spinti wrote: > Whatever you do, avoid Windows ME. It sucks big time. I know a firm that > adds about 20% to their support contract cost if ME is involved in the > support contract. I can beat that -- I'd subtract 100% and just multiply hours of support offered by the appropriate coefficient to even things out. ;) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Thu Jun 28 17:20:13 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] netfilter and squid (sanity check) References: Message-ID: <3B3BAD9B.B5F0A819@eetc.com> I haven't gotten into IPTables yet (I'm going to now though. I get to upgrade the firewall here at work. Yippey!) so I can't really help all that much. Just a suggestion. Check out Junkbuster (www.junkbuster.com). It blocks adds and add sites. You can even set it up to replace the adds with a very small picture (the standard is the junkbuster logo), like a 1x1 pixel pic. Very nice. Doesn't effect the look of the page though. If you don't set it up to replace the add with a pic the browser just uses the missing picture/data thing. It has a lot of other features also. Cookie proxy. Secure HTTP proxy. Lots of fun stuff. You can set up Junkbuster and Squid to work together (which is supposed to be the best configuration anyway). Just a thought (and a small one at that) sim From Phillip.J.Crump at WellsFargo.COM Thu Jun 28 17:20:05 2001 From: Phillip.J.Crump at WellsFargo.COM (Phillip.J.Crump@WellsFargo.COM) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor Message-ID: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05DFF15A@msgmsp15.norwest.com> What resolution can I get on the 15? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob McCloud [SMTP:mccloud@wiredhot.net] > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:58 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Used Monitor > > On 26 Jun 2001, at 13:49, Phillip.J.Crump@WellsFargo.COM wrote: > Date sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:49:15 -0500 > > > I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one > > for sale??? > > > > I have two 15" that I could part with. > > And I still have that Cisco 804 ISDN router if anyone is interested. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org Thu Jun 28 17:02:31 2001 From: moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Project management software? Message-ID: Hi all, I've recently completed a class on project management and would like to go put all the stuff I learned into practice. Do you have an suggestions for software tools other than Microsoft Project? I checked out SourceForge, came up with 14 hits where three seemed like good prospects (Achievo, FUTURe, and MrProject). FUTURe hasn't been updated in a year and MrProject hasn't reached production level. So... given only one real hit I'd like to see if any of you has an opinion on the subject. Thanks, Joshua Jore From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jun 28 20:59:05 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Loki Order... Message-ID: ...has been placed! Yes! Loki say it should ship tomorrow, or early next week. 4th of July might kill delay it a bit, but other than that we're good to go. The checks I have won't be cashed until I actually SEE the charge on my CC. -Yaron -- From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 01:19:07 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [estoker623@bugjuise.net: Boost Your Windows Reliability..... 9726] Message-ID: <20010629011907.M31165@real-time.com> HAHAH! Reliability of Windows NT or 2000 still sucks. I hate spam. > Dear Windows User, > Now you can boost the reliability of ordinary Windows 95, 98 and ME to > nearly the level of Windows NT or 2000, Microsoft's professional and > industrial version of Windows. > The new WinFix is a very effective way to improve the reliability of > Windows, because it makes Windows fault-tolerant and self-repairing. > And WinFix is very safe, because it operates completely independent of > Windows. > [1]CLICK HERE to find out more about WinFix, the safest, most > effective way to keep you working, by keeping your PC working > non-stop. > Arlen Dixon, CEO > Pinewood Software Marketing -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From eng at pinenet.com Fri Jun 29 04:12:53 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon Message-ID: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> The Sun StarOffice web site just announced that the Pentagon (Defense Information Systems Agency) just acquired 25,000 StarOffice units. This is a huge boost to IT. StarOffice isn't perfect, but the integration level is outstanding; browser, email, editors, charts, etc., are almost seamless. The Linux Xwindow platform extends the seamless link to everywhere. That is what the Pentagon wants; to be everywhere, seamlessly. Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. From eng at pinenet.com Fri Jun 29 04:51:45 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system Message-ID: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really help. Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. I'm using old SuSE 6.4. I've played with old and new Gnome, and old and new KDE. The stylistic "Nautilus" and "Konqueror" are dubious file manager improvements. MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. From veldy at veldy.net Fri Jun 29 08:12:33 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon References: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <000e01c1009d$28c1a790$3028680a@tgt.com> I didn't read the article, but I would bet that the Pentagon is still going to use Star Office on Windows NT. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Engebretson" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 4:12 AM Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon > The Sun StarOffice web site just announced that the Pentagon (Defense > Information Systems Agency) just acquired 25,000 StarOffice units. This > is a huge boost to IT. StarOffice isn't perfect, but the integration > level is outstanding; browser, email, editors, charts, etc., are almost > seamless. The Linux Xwindow platform extends the seamless link to > everywhere. That is what the Pentagon wants; to be everywhere, seamlessly. > > Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From destef at destef.com Fri Jun 29 08:19:39 2001 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <200106291319.f5TDJ0X31463@ernie.destef.com> At 09:12 AM 6/29/01 +0000, you wrote: >The Sun StarOffice web site just announced that the Pentagon (Defense >Information Systems Agency) just acquired 25,000 StarOffice units. This >is a huge boost to IT. StarOffice isn't perfect, but the integration >level is outstanding; browser, email, editors, charts, etc., are almost >seamless. The Linux Xwindow platform extends the seamless link to >everywhere. That is what the Pentagon wants; to be everywhere, seamlessly. > >Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. Ohh dont think they wont try!! :) >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jun 29 08:21:26 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome>; from eng@pinenet.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:12:53AM +0000 References: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010629082126.A21688@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:12:53AM +0000, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. Not really. As I read the article, this is a win for SO but not a loss for MS - SO was brought in to replace Applixware, not MS Office. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Jun 29 09:26:13 2001 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon References: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> <20010629082126.A21688@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B3C9005.F79417BB@structural-wood.com> Dave Sherohman wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:12:53AM +0000, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. > > Not really. As I read the article, this is a win for SO but not a loss for > MS - SO was brought in to replace Applixware, not MS Office. > > -- Yep, the article also said the Pentagon was running Applixware on Unix workstations. I agree that it isn't a loss for MS, but I bet Billy G. doesn't see it that way. From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri Jun 29 09:47:15 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Internet KB and Linux Message-ID: <3B3C94E8.47970DA5@eetc.com> My KB at work crapped out on me (well, it still works but the cord is too short and we have no AT extenders). I got a PS/2 adapter and hooked up a internet KB from compuserve (cheap POS). How do I get the functionality in Linux? Specifically, can I get some of the keys to work in console - NOT Xterm. I only have Xwindows on one partition (RH 7.1) and I rarely use that now. As long as I'm stuck with this POS I would like to get some of the extra functionality out of it. Any ideas? This sounds a lot like a previous post about mapping key sequences to commands. I still haven't fugured that one out. sim From blayer at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 10:18:37 2001 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010629101837.200979cb.blayer@qwest.net> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:51:45 GMT "Rick Engebretson" wrote: > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. There was an article on this in Linux Journal about a year ago, but they really only scratched the surface. One problem, is that the exact structure and content of the trees varies from distro to distro... and then there is the /opt/ tree, which seems to be the place that all 3rd party software will eventually go, but since there is no distro standard, this is dubious. here is a basic breakdown.. I'm probably wrong about a lot of this myself... /bin - binaries, most basic commands are in here /sbin - system binaries, normally only root runs these /usr - vaguely user files, and programs that users run. However, root still owns most of this... $PATH/local - software installed on the local machine.. once again, a vague descriptor. Root still owns it. /mnt - other filessystems are mounted here: cdrom, floppy, nfs, windows etc. /tmp - temporary files, this is a volatile directory. /var - files that chage frequently, like logs, www content etc. /etc - system configuration files /boot - files used by the LILO bootloader, sometimes the kernel is her, sometimes it's in / /proc - a special virtual filesystem, a portal to the kernel and the system harware. The contents of /proc is created at boottime. /dev - special files, that are really links to device drivers. Each device is represented by a /dev/? file. This is currently changing. /opt - optional software, a place that may someday take over much of what is in /usr/? and several other trees. /lib - critical system software libraries, /lib/modules contains the kernel module tree. /root - root's home directory /shlib - these libraries are for SCO compatibility, and are part of the ibcs2 package. While I know it is the greatest heresy, it would be good if one day we could settle on a single distro, or at least a single distro standard for the directory tree. This would ease so many things... -.bill.layer.- -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 29 10:23:16 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <000e01c1009d$28c1a790$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > I didn't read the article, but I would bet that the Pentagon is still going > to use Star Office on Windows NT. IIRC there were a few Windoze stations but mostly *NIX and a few linux. SO is almost the only office suite that makes sense there because of their mix of MS, *NIX, and possibly *BSD. Nice to see an office app that will run nicely cross-platform like that. Hmm.. I suddenly have the urge to check the latest build of OpenOffice -Brian From patrick at hamletmachine.com Fri Jun 29 11:02:01 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> <20010629101837.200979cb.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <012501c100b4$d6d178d0$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:18 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:51:45 GMT > "Rick Engebretson" wrote: > > > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. > > There was an article on this in Linux Journal about a year ago, but they > really only scratched the surface. One problem, is that the exact > structure and content of the trees varies from distro to distro... and > then there is the /opt/ tree, which seems to be the place that all 3rd > party software will eventually go, but since there is no distro standard, > this is dubious. There is the Filesystem Heirarchy Standard (in progress) which you can get info on at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ That may alleviate some of the issues with different UNIX and UNIX-like OSes having different structures, if, or course, they all decided to follow it. Currently it looks like the work is centered around getting the various Linuxes all on the same page. If even that much can be done it will be a great thing, I think. From joel at luths.net Fri Jun 29 10:47:07 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Project management software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <993829627.3b3ca2fb0ea7b@www.luths.net> Check TUTOS. I believe it's on Freshmeat and Sourceforge. I installed it a while back but never used it much. Looked decent though. Also Promanager and PWMS. Found those on Freshmeat also, but it was a while ago. Quoting Joshua Jore : > Hi all, > I've recently completed a class on project management and would like to > go > put all the stuff I learned into practice. Do you have an suggestions > for > software tools other than Microsoft Project? I checked out SourceForge, > came up with 14 hits where three seemed like good prospects (Achievo, > FUTURe, and MrProject). FUTURe hasn't been updated in a year and > MrProject > hasn't reached production level. > > So... given only one real hit I'd like to see if any of you has an > opinion > on the subject. > > Thanks, > Joshua Jore > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From veldy at veldy.net Fri Jun 29 11:04:11 2001 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon References: Message-ID: <005801c100b5$2397dc40$3028680a@tgt.com> Yes, I think I will check it out too. I must admin, I mostly use Office 2000, mainly because of work place compatibility. I have not tried getting my printer working under *NIX yet (Lexmark 312L -- stealth 312), perhaps it might be time to reevaluate this. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > I didn't read the article, but I would bet that the Pentagon is still going > > to use Star Office on Windows NT. > > IIRC there were a few Windoze stations but mostly *NIX and a few > linux. SO is almost the only office suite that makes sense there because > of their mix of MS, *NIX, and possibly *BSD. Nice to see an office app > that will run nicely cross-platform like that. > > Hmm.. I suddenly have the urge to check the latest build of OpenOffice > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 07:03:22 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: Worst week in computing (was Re: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon) In-Reply-To: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > The Sun StarOffice web site just announced that the Pentagon (Defense > Information Systems Agency) just acquired 25,000 StarOffice units. This > is a huge boost to IT. StarOffice isn't perfect, but the integration > level is outstanding; browser, email, editors, charts, etc., are almost > seamless. The Linux Xwindow platform extends the seamless link to > everywhere. That is what the Pentagon wants; to be everywhere, seamlessly. > > Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. Yes that is good news, and much needed. This has been about the worst week in the history of [the _business_ of] computing. On Monday, Compaq sold the Alpha design team to Intel. Couldn't be so that Intel can kill off a superior architecture and advanced fab processes with a 10-year lead to push forward their puny IA-64 as if they'd invented something, now, could it? And there was a big anti-trust suit against them some years ago -- but they say by making licensing agreements they are not violating the terms of those rulings. Hrm. Yesterday, I understand the Court of Appeals overturned the breakup ruling against Microsoft. Not the monopoly judgement. (Actually it might be worse personally for Gates if they *don't* make them break up the company -- Rockefeller flourished after Standard Oil broke up.) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From simeonuj at eetc.com Fri Jun 29 11:10:02 2001 From: simeonuj at eetc.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Internet KB and Linux References: <3B3C94E8.47970DA5@eetc.com> Message-ID: <3B3CA847.551B9FC1@eetc.com> Well, I answered part of my question. Check this out. http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue55/henderson.html Very cool. There's also a howto although it seems to be more of a generic explanation of how the KB works (actually just what I need). Don't know why I couldn't find it before (believe me I looked). http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Keyboard-and-Console-HOWTO.html Simeon Johnston wrote: > My KB at work crapped out on me (well, it still works but the cord is > too short and we have no AT extenders). I got a PS/2 adapter and hooked > up a internet KB from compuserve (cheap POS). How do I get the > functionality in Linux? Specifically, can I get some of the keys to > work in console - NOT Xterm. I only have Xwindows on one partition (RH > 7.1) and I rarely use that now. As long as I'm stuck with this POS I > would like to get some of the extra functionality out of it. > > Any ideas? > This sounds a lot like a previous post about mapping key sequences to > commands. I still haven't fugured that one out. sim From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jun 29 11:29:55 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629101837.200979cb.blayer@qwest.net>; from blayer@qwest.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:18:37AM -0500 References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> <20010629101837.200979cb.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20010629112955.E21688@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:18:37AM -0500, Bill Layer wrote: > /bin - binaries, most basic commands are in here > /sbin - system binaries, normally only root runs these Like /lib, these should only contain files which are essential for the system to boot. The bulk of binaries, system binaries, and libraries are in /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, and /usr/lib. > While I know it is the greatest heresy, it would be good if one day we > could settle on a single distro, or at least a single distro standard for > the directory tree. This would ease so many things... FHS? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 29 12:09:33 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629112955.E21688@sherohman.org> Message-ID: > > > While I know it is the greatest heresy, it would be good if one day we > > could settle on a single distro, or at least a single distro standard for > > the directory tree. This would ease so many things... When it comes to a "standard distro", I pick Debian just because it seems that they haven't mucked around too much. other distros (not to mention any names, Suse and Slack) seem to move things into weird places that no one else thinks they should go. Anwyay, that's my opinion, salt to taste, your mileage may vary. -Brian From moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org Fri Jun 29 12:03:22 2001 From: moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Project management software? In-Reply-To: <993829627.3b3ca2fb0ea7b@www.luths.net> Message-ID: Yes, I saw TUTOS but I guess when I'm thinking of project management, that involves stuff like creating a Work Breakdown Structure (WBS), assigning cost+duration to each, being able to do a Precedence Diagram M? (PDM)[1], finding critical paths, locating early/late start and early/late finish, resource leveling.... That sort of thing. Essentially, a freeOS friendly MS Project. Josh [1] A Gantt chart is a close cousin to PDM. MS Project combines the two. On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 joel@luths.net wrote: > Check TUTOS. I believe it's on Freshmeat and Sourceforge. I installed it a > while back but never used it much. Looked decent though. Also Promanager and > PWMS. Found those on Freshmeat also, but it was a while ago. > > Quoting Joshua Jore : > > > Hi all, > > I've recently completed a class on project management and would like to > > go > > put all the stuff I learned into practice. Do you have an suggestions > > for > > software tools other than Microsoft Project? I checked out SourceForge, > > came up with 14 hits where three seemed like good prospects (Achievo, > > FUTURe, and MrProject). FUTURe hasn't been updated in a year and > > MrProject > > hasn't reached production level. > > > > So... given only one real hit I'd like to see if any of you has an > > opinion > > on the subject. > > > > Thanks, > > Joshua Jore > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From amy at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 13:37:46 2001 From: amy at real-time.com (amy tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon References: <005801c100b5$2397dc40$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <002401c100ca$9a9f00b0$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Anyone have URL for the announcement? Thanks From cargods at anubis.network.com Fri Jun 29 14:07:41 2001 From: cargods at anubis.network.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon Message-ID: <200106291907.OAA07227@rainier.network.com> I've seen in Linux News http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2779806,00.html From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jun 29 14:10:04 2001 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <002401c100ca$9a9f00b0$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com>; from amy@real-time.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:37:46PM -0500 References: <005801c100b5$2397dc40$3028680a@tgt.com> <002401c100ca$9a9f00b0$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: <20010629141004.D436@minime.sistina.com> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:37:46PM -0500, amy tanner wrote: >Anyone have URL for the announcement? Thanks No, but I can't wait to see what happens when they realize it's a useless bloated piece of crap and have to migrate to M$ Office2k. > >_______________________________________________ >tclug-list mailing list >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010629/5f10edfc/attachment.pgp From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 29 14:24:02 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Brian: Please identify your check. Message-ID: Hello, Ok, there are several Brians on the Loki game order. Some of which decided I don't need to know their last names. And then one of them sent me a check, without any other form of identification. Any Brian who didn't use a last name when signing on and then sent me a check without mentioning the Email address they used, please Email me. -Yaron -- From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jun 29 14:26:16 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <002401c100ca$9a9f00b0$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com>; from amy@real-time.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:37:46PM -0500 References: <005801c100b5$2397dc40$3028680a@tgt.com> <002401c100ca$9a9f00b0$fc19a8c0@2ndswing.com> Message-ID: <20010629142615.G21688@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:37:46PM -0500, amy tanner wrote: > Anyone have URL for the announcement? Thanks Slashdot blurb: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/26/1416241&mode=nested ZDNet story: http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2779806,00.html -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 14:49:09 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <20010629141004.D436@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:37:46PM -0500, amy tanner wrote: > >Anyone have URL for the announcement? Thanks > > No, but I can't wait to see what happens when they realize it's a useless > bloated piece of crap and have to migrate to M$ Office2k. It's the Government; most of them are useless and bloated too. Perfect fit! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri Jun 29 14:57:29 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon Message-ID: >>> blutgens@sistina.com 06/29/01 02:10PM >>> > No, but I can't wait to see what happens when they realize it's a useless > bloated piece of crap and have to migrate to M$ Office2k. Do they live in a toilet? Must they wander aimlessly from turd to turd like that? The humanity... ;-) From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 15:22:20 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial cable for Wyse dumb term Message-ID: <20010629152220.A30631@real-time.com> I've got a Wyse 182 dumb terminal that I'd like to use on the serial port of a Linux or BSD box. what kind of serial cable do I need? anyone know if I can just use a crossover cable; or do I need a funky pinout of some sort? it ought to make a decent syslog monitor. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From umchaffie at messagelabs.com Fri Jun 29 15:25:10 2001 From: umchaffie at messagelabs.com (Uriah Mchaffie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: <6A576315A2902249A2AA5675E0B71203023191D2@mlabs004.messagelabs.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/bmp Size: 1926 bytes Desc: ole0.bmp Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010629/153195e4/attachment.bin From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 29 15:51:42 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sanity check Message-ID: None of the e-mail's I've sent to the list today seem to have gotten through, so this is just a little check. Sorry if this actually goes through. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From dante at plethora.net Fri Jun 29 16:16:05 2001 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial cable for Wyse dumb term In-Reply-To: <20010629152220.A30631@real-time.com> Message-ID: You can use a crossover cable to the "main" port or a straight-through cable to the "Aux" port (there is a setting in the config menu to switch between them). Dan On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I've got a Wyse 182 dumb terminal that I'd like to use on the serial port of > a Linux or BSD box. > > what kind of serial cable do I need? anyone know if I can just use a > crossover cable; or do I need a funky pinout of some sort? > > it ought to make a decent syslog monitor. :) > > Carl Soderstrom > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri Jun 29 16:07:30 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial cable for Wyse dumb term Message-ID: I would like to know of a local supplier of such cables. I'd rather not make my own cable if I can get away with it. >>> chrome@real-time.com 06/29/01 03:22PM >>> I've got a Wyse 182 dumb terminal that I'd like to use on the serial port of a Linux or BSD box. what kind of serial cable do I need? anyone know if I can just use a crossover cable; or do I need a funky pinout of some sort? it ought to make a decent syslog monitor. :) From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Fri Jun 29 16:08:29 2001 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: Loki Games http://www.lokigames.com/ The port games to Linux. >>> umchaffie@messagelabs.com 06/29/01 03:25PM >>> I am new to the group and I am just wondering what "Loki" is? Uriah McHaffie System Engineer MessageLabs Inc. <> 8500 Normandale Lake Blvd., Suite 650 Minneapolis, MN 55437 U.S.A. www.messagelabs.com Voice 952.830.1000 Fax 952.831.8118 Mobile 612.743.2800 _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp From dchristian at users.sourceforge.net Fri Jun 29 16:10:15 2001 From: dchristian at users.sourceforge.net (David Christian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL Message-ID: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> I can't seem to send mail from Linux using mutt and sendmail. The linux machine is on LAN behind behind a Router, and so doesn't have a valid IP address or domain name. Does anyone know how to configure sendmail so that the various MTAs out there will believe me about who I am? Do I somehow need to relay to Qwest.net's mail router? Here is a sample message I got back from NCSU: ---- Begin Error The original message was received at Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:35:23 -0500 from dchristi@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- rousseau@csc.ncsu.edu (reason: 501 ... Sender domain must exist) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to celestial-switchboard.csc.ncsu.edu.: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=578 <<< 501 ... Sender domain must exist 501 5.6.0 rousseau@csc.ncsu.edu... Data format error ---- End Error From mend0070 at umn.edu Fri Jun 29 16:09:57 2001 From: mend0070 at umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial cable for Wyse dumb term Message-ID: <200106292109.QAA14264@www7.mail.umn.edu> On or about 29 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom is alleged to have said: > I've got a Wyse 182 dumb terminal that I'd like to use on the serial port of > a Linux or BSD box. > > what kind of serial cable do I need? anyone know if I can just use a > crossover cable; or do I need a funky pinout of some sort? I don't know specifically, but if it's a 25-pin connector, I'd bet that would do it. I was taught that you always start with a crossover cable and add crap to it afterwards. I don't recall Wyse using abnormal pinouts. If it doesn't work, I'll lookup some dumb terminal resources I have, if you want. Cheers, Phil From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 29 16:18:36 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <6A576315A2902249A2AA5675E0B71203023191D2@mlabs004.messagelabs.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Uriah Mchaffie wrote: > I am new to the group and I am just wondering what "Loki" is? http://www.lokigames.com Loki Software is a company that ports games to Linux. Their website has a product listing. A while ago they offered LUGs a 50% discount, provided a really large order was made, so we made a pretty large order. -Yaron -- From webmaster at aardvarko.com Fri Jun 29 16:22:54 2001 From: webmaster at aardvarko.com (aardvarko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <6A576315A2902249A2AA5675E0B71203023191D2@mlabs004.messagelabs.com> Message-ID: > I am new to the group and I am just wondering what "Loki" is? First off, please lose the HTML E-mail. (I'd wager that you're using Outlook; that'd be Format->Plain Text.) Loki is a company that specializes in converting games from Windoze to Linux. A bunch of people on this list are in the process of assembling a massive order from 'em. -- -aardvarko http://aardvarko.com webmaster at aardvarko dot com -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Uriah Mchaffie Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 15:25 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) From drake at lemongecko.myip.org Fri Jun 29 07:56:06 2001 From: drake at lemongecko.myip.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > directory. At least you don't call them "folders". :) > The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > help. The concept of directory is the same in Linux and Windows. I think what you mean to say is that the names of the directories, and why things are put in the place they are, is obscure. Nothing about "/etc" says "configuration files" and nothing about "/var" says "logs and spools". I found this difficult too in the beginning. Eventually you'll be used to it. > Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. No, it's hierarchal. It's a perfect tree, unless you count symlinks and hard links. Windows has a hierarchal directory structure, too, except for the whole C drive, D drive thing. > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > configuration structure. I disagree, but perception of "clean" is personal preference. To each his (or her, or its) own. > But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. I've used Red Hat and Debian, and found that configuration stuff with RH can be confusing. I like Debian much better. Maybe try another distro. Just my take on the Windows -> Linux conversion. Dan From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jun 29 08:27:33 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome>; from eng@pinenet.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:51:45AM +0000 References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010629082733.B21688@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:51:45AM +0000, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > help. Descriptive GUI names won't be present until somebody puts them there and most of the people writing the code don't need them. While you make an interesting point (and one which I've never heard mentioned before), you might be better off just grabbing a copy of the FHS (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard) and reading that. Not that everyone follows it, but at least it should provide enough background information to figure out the logic behind the placement of various files. > Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. Oh? In what way? > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. Finding config files is (ideally) simple. They're generally either in /etc or symlinked there. -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org Fri Jun 29 16:15:21 2001 From: moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> Message-ID: I had a similar problem until I gave the machine a name. I've since moved on to postfix but that was the fix for sendmail anyway. I assume if I had spend long enough contemplating the sendmail docs there might have been a way to convince it to it anyway but the time wasn't worth it. Prior to getting my own domains I just used the address my ISP assigned to my IP. Josh On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, David Christian wrote: > I can't seem to send mail from Linux using mutt and sendmail. The linux > machine is on LAN behind behind a Router, and so doesn't have a valid IP > address or domain name. > > Does anyone know how to configure sendmail so that the various MTAs out > there will believe me about who I am? Do I somehow need to relay to > Qwest.net's mail router? > > Here is a sample message I got back from NCSU: > > > ---- Begin Error > > The original message was received at Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:35:23 -0500 > from dchristi@localhost > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > rousseau@csc.ncsu.edu > (reason: 501 ... Sender domain must exist) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to celestial-switchboard.csc.ncsu.edu.: > >>> MAIL From: SIZE=578 > <<< 501 ... Sender domain must exist > 501 5.6.0 rousseau@csc.ncsu.edu... Data format error > > > ---- End Error > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ssinn at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 18:00:08 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain>; from dchristian@users.sourceforge.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 04:10:15PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629180008.A5455@thor> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 04:10:15PM -0500, David Christian wrote: > I can't seem to send mail from Linux using mutt and sendmail. The linux > machine is on LAN behind behind a Router, and so doesn't have a valid IP > address or domain name. > > Does anyone know how to configure sendmail so that the various MTAs out > there will believe me about who I am? Do I somehow need to relay to > Qwest.net's mail router? > First, back up sendmail.cf (it is probably in /etc or /etc/mail) In your sendmail.cf file, there are a couple of lines you need to change. # local info # ############## Cwlocalhost #add this Cwqwest.net and another line # who I masquerade as (null for no masquerading) DMqwest.net vi/emacs/pico will tell you its a read-only file but that should be ok. Save it any way. I do a variation on this (bouncing it off my domain) and it works ok. The sendmail FAQ is IMHO written by/for sendmails author :) This little fix will only work for email accounts @qwest.net Let me know if it works :) From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 29 08:56:54 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: Actually, I think Windows is badly orginized. You just think it's good because you're used to it. It's actually rather bad, because every windows system is different depending on what devices are present. My windows install: c:\ - hard drive d:\ - MO Drive e:\ - First CD rom f:\ - second cd-rom Add a new hard drive, and you add a drive letter (Except in Windows 2000 where they actually figured out mount points, just too bad you can't have Program Files as a mount point.) Anyway, the *NIX way is better: / - root, everything starts here. |-/bin [*] |-/boot [*] - kernels and such |-/etc [*] - configuration files |-/lib [*] |-/root [*] - roots home directory |-/sbin [*] |-/home - User home directories. User data always goes here. |-/mnt - [**] Mount points, /mnt/cdrom, /mnt/zip, /mnt/floppy |-/tmp - [***] Temp space |-/usr - Programs, libs, etc gets installed here |-/usr/local - Software/configurations/etc specific to your site, mostly things compiled from source, not installed via rpms/debs |-/var - Variable info, databases, package info, etc. |-/opt - Optional stuff, again, mostly stuff specific to your site. |-/dev [****] |-/proc [****] [*] - These directories should always be on the same partation as they are required to boot/maintail/restore the system [**] - Some system (Like Debian) like to create their mount points under / instead of mount. Some admins like them tucked away neatly under /mnt. A quick peek at /etc/fstab will tell you where to look if the admin hasn't created sym links. [***] - try tmpfs. It's cool. If using tmpfs, tmp space is kept in memory/swap. [****] - the dev and proc filesystems are created automatically by the kernel and MAKEDEV scripts. To me, that makes more sense than the Windows layout of different drive letters. When you sit down at a UNIX box, things are always in the same place, none of this on this computer D is the second hard drive and E is the cd-rom, over here M and N are the cd-rom and burner, C is the hard drive, and B is the Zip drive. On this machine C is the hard drive, D is the cdrom, and E is the Zip drive. Anyway, for the most part you shouldn't be to concerned with anything out of /home except for the cdrom/burner/zip/whatever mount points. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From gozz at gozz.com Fri Jun 29 08:57:54 2001 From: gozz at gozz.com (Erik Mattheis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Used Monitor In-Reply-To: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05DFF15A@msgmsp15.norwest.com> References: <43353280FCFFD211971E00005801192E05DFF15A@msgmsp15.norwest.com> Message-ID: > > > I'm looking for a used 15 or 17 inch monitor.. Does anyone have one > > > for sale??? I have a 17" IBM G74 just taking up space ... it has a loose pin and the cord which is hard wired into the monitor ... so not a monitor you'd want to hook up too many more times. Maybe the price is supervising a dual boot installation. -- - Erik Mattheis Weaning self off M$. Learning Linux. Waiting for OS X apps. Still wants to see flying saucer. (612) 827 3963 From natecars at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 09:48:18 2001 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > help. > > Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. > > I'm using old SuSE 6.4. I've played with old and new Gnome, and old and > new KDE. The stylistic "Nautilus" and "Konqueror" are dubious file > manager improvements. > > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. Uh, excuse me? Have you looked at all the kludge that piles up in c:\winnt lately? Can you explain what every single directory in c:\winnt does, and where you should put file(s) when you need to do things? Also, what's the point of c:, d:, e:, f:, etc? It makes so much more sense to have stuff mounted in one large namespace instead of splitting it up like that. I'll take the UNIX-style file naming system any day.. it's logical. Maybe a bit of a learning curve, but at least things generally follow some order, and you can tell why things go where they do. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 29 10:07:41 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [estoker623@bugjuise.net: Boost Your Windows Reliability..... 9726] In-Reply-To: <20010629011907.M31165@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Bob Tanner wrote: > HAHAH! > > > [1]CLICK HERE to find out more about WinFix, the safest, most > > effective way to keep you working, by keeping your PC working > > non-stop. I think I wrote a program similar to this: #!/bin/sh mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/win32 rm -rf /mnt/win32/windows sure seemed to stabilize things. -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 29 10:15:40 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > help. I think the directory structure is a little odd at first, but once you learn it it makes more sense (to me anyways). The one thing that still bugs me though is all the variations of bin laying around.. /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin. Why is there a /bin and a /usr/bin? and although I can see the logic of keeping root-only utils in /sbin, if you have to be root to run them anyway, why not dump it all in /bin? I'm planning to start doing this on some of my boxen, dump all the files from /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin into /bin and then symlink the old bin directories, since I assume stuff is compiled to look for /usr/sbin and whatnot. Any reason why I couldn't do this? -Brian From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 10:16:51 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Project management software? In-Reply-To: ; from moomonk@aaieee.daisy-chan.org on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:02:31PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010629101651.D3381@real-time.com> > came up with 14 hits where three seemed like good prospects (Achievo, > FUTURe, and MrProject). FUTURe hasn't been updated in a year and MrProject > hasn't reached production level. we looked for project-management tools for quite a while here at Real-Time. We tried Achievo; but IMHO (others hold wildly differing opinions), achievo is an unremitted pile of excrement. the user interface is truly vile: - there's too much wasted space on the screen (*lots* of blank space; which is morally repugnant to me... destop space is preciously small). - there's too many interfaces - one needs to choose several differant management screens, to update a project or check its status. every screen has different interface conventions. - there's no way to make incremental update notes that are easily readable. there's only one descriptor field for the project; so no way to add update notes to that, and associate a trackable time value with each. We've gone to using Keystone for project management now; and I'm pretty happy with it. the UI is good (not perfect, but good); and it's fairly mature. it's not completely Free; there are some licensing hooks attached to it; but it's PHP3, so it's pretty Open Source, and there's supposedly a community of volunteer developers who contribute to it. Bob Tanner knows more about the licensing. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From eng at pinenet.com Fri Jun 29 19:11:48 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun StarOffice (Pentagon) URL Message-ID: <20010630.114800@LinWin.MShome> http://www.sun.com/staroffice From root at localhost.localdomain Fri Jun 29 19:17:08 2001 From: root at localhost.localdomain (root) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <20010629180008.A5455@thor>; from ssinn@qwest.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:00:08PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> <20010629180008.A5455@thor> Message-ID: <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain> Well, here is hte ultimate test: Here's hoping this works! Thanks, Dave On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:00:08PM -0500, Spencer J Sinn wrote: > First, back up sendmail.cf (it is probably in /etc or /etc/mail) > In your sendmail.cf file, there are a couple of lines you need to change. > > # local info # > ############## > > Cwlocalhost > #add this > Cwqwest.net > > and another line > > # who I masquerade as (null for no masquerading) > DMqwest.net > > vi/emacs/pico will tell you its a read-only file but that should be ok. Save it any way. I do a variation on this (bouncing it off my domain) and it works ok. > The sendmail FAQ is IMHO written by/for sendmails author :) > This little fix will only work for email accounts @qwest.net > Let me know if it works :) > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jun 29 19:23:12 2001 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [estoker623@bugjuise.net: Boost Your Windows Reliability..... 9726] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > #!/bin/sh > > mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/win32 > rm -rf /mnt/win32/windows Isn't that a waste? Why not mke2fs it? (: -Yaron -- From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jun 29 10:38:33 2001 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <3B3C9005.F79417BB@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: Applix was/is cool. The 4.x versions ran on *NIX and Windows. 5.0 is pretty darn cool, but only released for Linux x86. Not to hard to figure out why they went to Star Office from a 4.x version of Applix, whatever they went to they needed cross platform between UNIX and Windwos, pretty much stuck with Star Office. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond. If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a bad name for their new services. From joel at luths.net Fri Jun 29 10:49:05 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> References: <20010629.9125300@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <993829745.3b3ca3716b6de@www.luths.net> Quoting Rick Engebretson : > The Sun StarOffice web site just announced that the Pentagon (Defense > Information Systems Agency) just acquired 25,000 StarOffice units. This > is a huge boost to IT. StarOffice isn't perfect, but the integration > level is outstanding; browser, email, editors, charts, etc., are almost > seamless. The Linux Xwindow platform extends the seamless link to > everywhere. That is what the Pentagon wants; to be everywhere, > seamlessly. > > Now MS will have to buy the Pentagon to keep a toll IT highway monopoly. > Don't give them any ideas... From list at slushpupie.com Fri Jun 29 10:46:35 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting Message-ID: I am working on a cgi script (written using sh) that will output qmail aliases. I need to create some way to filter the output so that certain things are not displayed. It needs to eliminate output for: * aliases that go to /dev/null * aliases where the name of the alias is contained in the first line of the file (eg- $i="john" in the script below, and the file's first line is "johna") * aliases where the first line of the file is contained in the filename (eg- $i="johnb" in the script below and the first line of the file is "john") I can do the first part no problem, but the other 2 I am not sure the best way to do. For the name matching, it should also match the start of string (ie /^john/ not /john/) and only the first line. I know this is most likely very easy in other languages such as Perl or PHP, but these are not installed, as this is just a mail server (it doesn't even have a web server, we are using rsh to do this) Does anyone have any ideas? The main part of the script looks like this: echo "" for i in $aliases; do if [ -n "$nofilter" ]; then echo "" echo "" else if [ -z "`grep /dev/null /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i`" ]; then echo "" echo "" fi fi done echo "
$i
"
		cat /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i
		echo "
$i
"
			cat /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i
			echo "
" -- Jay Publishing Business Systems 651-634-9217 From joel at luths.net Fri Jun 29 11:03:36 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <993830616.3b3ca6d85a56e@www.luths.net> Quoting Rick Engebretson : > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > help. Err..., what? What file abbreviations? And what's a descriptive name system for a GUI? > > Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. In what way? Seems completely hierarchical to me. > > I'm using old SuSE 6.4. I've played with old and new Gnome, and old and > new KDE. The stylistic "Nautilus" and "Konqueror" are dubious file > manager improvements. I haven't really used them, but this isn't the first criticism I've heard. > > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. I would suggest that the apparent simplicity of Windows configuration is due to your familiarity with it. Compare the amount of time you've been working with Windows and Linux. You may find, as you learn Linux, that it is actually simpler to configure than Windows (many do). Also, Linux has a more granular and complete configuration scheme (ie >3 .ini files), which makes it seem more complicated but does give much better control. And, IMHO, the registry is a complete configuration disaster. Keep working with Linux, see if your opinions change. And either way, of course, keep voicing them. From dutchman at uswest.net Fri Jun 29 10:54:50 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon References: Message-ID: <3B3CA4CA.6750AA9B@uswest.net> Brian wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > I didn't read the article, but I would bet that the Pentagon is still going > > to use Star Office on Windows NT. > > IIRC there were a few Windoze stations but mostly *NIX and a few > linux. SO is almost the only office suite that makes sense there because > of their mix of MS, *NIX, and possibly *BSD. Nice to see an office app > that will run nicely cross-platform like that. > > Hmm.. I suddenly have the urge to check the latest build of OpenOffice > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Resist your urge. I took a look at OpenOffice 6.0. Two big things missing is: printing and cut/paste. It may be there now, but I would double check. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From ssinn at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 19:31:43 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [estoker623@bugjuise.net: Boost Your Windows Reliability..... 9726] In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:07:41AM -0500 References: <20010629011907.M31165@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010629193143.A8752@thor> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:07:41AM -0500, Brian wrote: A minor script change as previously posted by another > I think I wrote a program similar to this: > > #!/bin/sh > > mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/win32 cat `find . -depth -print` | mailx -s TAKE IT BACK wgates@microsoft.com # or something like that > rm -rf /mnt/win32/windows > > sure seemed to stabilize things. > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dchristian at users.sourceforge.net Fri Jun 29 19:39:24 2001 From: dchristian at users.sourceforge.net (David Christian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain>; from root@localhost.localdomain on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:08PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> <20010629180008.A5455@thor> <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629193924.B2048@localhost.localdomain> Well, okay, it *sort* of works, now; it seems mn-linux.org is not as picky as some other places. If I try to send through sourceforge to myself, it ferrets out the fact that I'm from localhost@localdomain. (yes, I know, even behind a firewall where no one can see I could be more creative, but changing hostnames after the computer is initialized is a pain, and I haven't figured out how to make X work once I've changed host names, since I then I have authority problems.) I'm trying using the sendmail.mc features MASQUERADE_AS and FEATURE('masquerade_envelope') but neither of these seem to do a thing. Any more advice? Thanks, Dave On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:08PM -0500, root wrote: > Well, here is hte ultimate test: > Here's hoping this works! > > Thanks, > Dave > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:00:08PM -0500, Spencer J Sinn wrote: > > First, back up sendmail.cf (it is probably in /etc or /etc/mail) > > In your sendmail.cf file, there are a couple of lines you need to change. > > > > # local info # > > ############## > > > > Cwlocalhost > > #add this > > Cwqwest.net > > > > and another line > > > > # who I masquerade as (null for no masquerading) > > DMqwest.net > > > > vi/emacs/pico will tell you its a read-only file but that should be ok. Save it any way. I do a variation on this (bouncing it off my domain) and it works ok. > > The sendmail FAQ is IMHO written by/for sendmails author :) > > This little fix will only work for email accounts @qwest.net > > Let me know if it works :) > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ssinn at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 19:38:10 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: Hello root! (was Re: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL) In-Reply-To: <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain>; from root@localhost.localdomain on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:08PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> <20010629180008.A5455@thor> <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629193810.A8777@thor> Congratulations! On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:08PM -0500, root wrote: > Well, here is hte ultimate test: > Here's hoping this works! > > Thanks, > Dave > From gabe at msi.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 19:47:49 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:15:40AM -0500 References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010629194749.F23320@blackice.localdomain> > I think the directory structure is a little odd at first, but once you > learn it it makes more sense (to me anyways). The one thing that still > bugs me though is all the variations of bin laying around.. /bin, > /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin. Why is there a /bin and a > /usr/bin? and although I can see the logic of keeping root-only utils in > /sbin, if you have to be root to run them anyway, why not dump it all in > /bin? I'm planning to start doing this on some of my boxen, dump all the > files from /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin into /bin and then symlink the old > bin directories, since I assume stuff is compiled to look for /usr/sbin > and whatnot. Any reason why I couldn't do this? There's a /bin and a /usr/bin because, historically, /bin is on your partition/slice/volume containing / and /usr/bin is on your parition/slice/volume containing /usr. /bin conatins statically-linked file (files which _contain_ the libs the need to run, rather than "pointing" to the libs). If your drive/partition/slice/volume containing /usr craps out on your or the filesystem is corrupt, or you mount it via NFS and you're in single-user mode, then if you had all your binaries in there, you couldn't do _anything_ on the system, not even use ed or ex to edit your files, if need be. /sbin is for statically linked system binaries (stuff that only root generally runs). /usr/sbin is for mom-mission-critical binaries that only root generally runs. And the whole concept of /usr/local is appaling :) It was historically called /opt (optional stuff). Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From joel at luths.net Fri Jun 29 11:08:43 2001 From: joel at luths.net (joel@luths.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629101837.200979cb.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> <20010629101837.200979cb.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <993830923.3b3ca80be57fa@www.luths.net> Ah, that's what he meant. Wasn't/isn't there some project to standardize the basic directory structure? Linux Filesystem or some such? I don't agree that we should narrow the distro gene pool (it's only heresy, not greatest heresy), but a bit more standardization (like dir structure) would be nice. Quoting Bill Layer : > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:51:45 GMT > "Rick Engebretson" wrote: > > > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. > > There was an article on this in Linux Journal about a year ago, but they > really only scratched the surface. One problem, is that the exact > structure and content of the trees varies from distro to distro... and > then there is the /opt/ tree, which seems to be the place that all 3rd > party software will eventually go, but since there is no distro > standard, > this is dubious. > > here is a basic breakdown.. I'm probably wrong about a lot of this > myself... > > /bin - binaries, most basic commands are in here > /sbin - system binaries, normally only root runs these > /usr - vaguely user files, and programs that users run. However, root > still owns most of this... > $PATH/local - software installed on the local machine.. once again, a > vague descriptor. Root still owns it. > /mnt - other filessystems are mounted here: cdrom, floppy, nfs, windows > etc. > /tmp - temporary files, this is a volatile directory. > /var - files that chage frequently, like logs, www content etc. > /etc - system configuration files > /boot - files used by the LILO bootloader, sometimes the kernel is her, > sometimes it's in / > /proc - a special virtual filesystem, a portal to the kernel and the > system harware. The contents of /proc is created at boottime. > /dev - special files, that are really links to device drivers. Each > device > is represented by a /dev/? file. This is currently changing. > /opt - optional software, a place that may someday take over much of > what > is in /usr/? and several other trees. > /lib - critical system software libraries, /lib/modules contains the > kernel module tree. > /root - root's home directory > /shlib - these libraries are for SCO compatibility, and are part of the > ibcs2 package. > > > While I know it is the greatest heresy, it would be good if one day we > could settle on a single distro, or at least a single distro standard > for > the directory tree. This would ease so many things... > > > -.bill.layer.- > > -.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.- > > -.frogtown.- -.minnesota.- -.u.s.a.- > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From peter.clark at tides.com Fri Jun 29 10:42:53 2001 From: peter.clark at tides.com (peter.clark@tides.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Internet KB and Linux Message-ID: <200106291606.f5TG6EK18215@sprite.real-time.com> --- Simeon Johnston wrote: > My KB at work crapped out on me (well, it still works but the cord is > too short and we have no AT extenders). I got a PS/2 adapter and > hooked up a internet KB from compuserve (cheap POS). How do I get the > functionality in Linux? Specifically, can I get some of the keys to > work in console - NOT Xterm. --- For X, hotkeys is your friend (try Freshmeat). It's a lot easier than xmodmap. For the console, try http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue14/1080.html and use showkey -s to display the different key codes. Just out of curiousity, what do you have planned for your keyboard? I can understand using an Internet keyboard under X (I have one that has various media buttons, volume control, and program shortcuts) but it seems that its functionality would be severly limited in a text console. Perhaps I am thinking too GUIly. :Peter From spencer at sihope.com Fri Jun 29 20:44:10 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: {TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon>>Fwd: [announce] Infrastructure Upgrade [open office] Message-ID: <01062920441000.23547@usuper.autonomous.tv> Ironically as I was looking for the link to the soffice article, I recieved this e-mail. Any connection???? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [announce] Infrastructure Upgrade Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:42:50 -0700 From: Louis Suarez-Potts To: People, On July 13, OpenOffice.org's current infrastructure will be upgraded to SourceCast, a new and more feature-rich version of the current platform. On the actual day of the transition, beginning at around 5 PM PST, the site will be down for several hours hours. During this time, it, including the CVS repository, will be inaccessible. SourceCast is a significant infrastructure upgrade, and has features that will make a real difference to the growth and management of the project. Over the next two weeks, I will be focusing my articles on these new features and how the community can take advantage of them. The first article will appear early next week, and I urge the community to read it over. Louis Suarez-Potts Community Manager OpenOffice.org -- deltree c:\windows /y From ssinn at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 20:17:56 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting In-Reply-To: ; from list@slushpupie.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:46:35AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010629201756.A10139@thor> My only idea is, rather than have the script look through all the files for aliases, why not make a file of just the names you want left out? That way everything is in one place... this is the change I would make (with alias_file containing the names you want to leave out). for i in `cat alias_file` do ... Just my $0.02 On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:46:35AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > I am working on a cgi script (written using sh) that will output qmail > aliases. I need to create some way to filter the output so that certain > things are not displayed. It needs to eliminate output for: > * aliases that go to /dev/null > * aliases where the name of the alias is contained in the first line of the > file > (eg- $i="john" in the script below, and the file's first line is "johna") > * aliases where the first line of the file is contained in the filename > (eg- $i="johnb" in the script below and the first line of the file is > "john") > > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > The main part of the script looks like this: > > echo "" > for i in $aliases; > do > if [ -n "$nofilter" ]; > then > echo "" > echo "" > else > if [ -z "`grep /dev/null /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i`" ]; then > echo "" > echo "" > fi > fi > done > echo "
$i
"
> 		cat /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i
> 		echo "
$i
"
> 			cat /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i
> 			echo "
" > > -- > Jay > Publishing Business Systems > 651-634-9217 > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dchristian at users.sourceforge.net Fri Jun 29 20:29:48 2001 From: dchristian at users.sourceforge.net (David Christian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain>; from root@localhost.localdomain on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:08PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> <20010629180008.A5455@thor> <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629202948.A2501@localhost.localdomain> Okay, now we have an (almost) unqualified success. What worked for me, actually, was in the documentation! I added these options to my sendmail.mc MASQUERADE_AS(mail.mpls.uswest.net)dnl MASQUERADE_DOMAIN('localdomain.')dnl FEATURE(masquerade_envelope)dnl after which I used 'm4 /usr/share/sendmail-cf/m4/cf.m4 sendmail.mc > sendmail.cf' to recompile sendmail.cf from sendmail.mc Not half as bad as I thought it was going to be. Some of the fields are still wrong but at least I can send mail! Thanks, David From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jun 29 11:40:00 2001 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] grabbing images Message-ID: I need to find a way to download images off of an http server. Is there any way of doing this? I'm sure there's an obvious solution right under my nose but I can't seem to find it. What I want to do is write a script to put in cron.hourly that goes to some website (www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg) and saves it with a filename of datetime_certainimage.jpg. Then I can pipe it through a java applet and animate it. I have the java stuff worked out but I need to script the saving of the image. Is there a utility out there that accomplishes this? I tried lynx www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg > file but lynx didn't like that. TIA! -Brian From dutchman at uswest.net Fri Jun 29 11:42:53 2001 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rsync Question Message-ID: <3B3CB00D.E2388E79@uswest.net> Greet the sun all, For people who use rsync on a regular basis: Is it possible to provide multiple sources? I looked at the man page and the rsync website (rsync.samba.org) and all the examples use a single source. I need to do something like this: rsync -avR /opt/tmp/foo.html, /opt/tmp/picture.jpg webserver.somewhere.org::htdocs rather than rsync -avR /opt/tmp/ webserver.somewhere.org::htdocs -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From jeffr at odeon.net Fri Jun 29 15:01:42 2001 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] StarOffice and the Pentagon In-Reply-To: <20010629141004.D436@minime.sistina.com> Message-ID: While it is bloated, it still not as bad as Office2k. Also, considering the number of different platforms they want it to run on, they really didn't have any other options. On a slightly related note, I've got a friend that's been following OpenOffice, and he seems really impressed and is using it almost exclusively now. Anyone else had similar experience? The last time I looked at it, it wasn't able to print, but that was quite a while ago. Jeff On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:37:46PM -0500, amy tanner wrote: > >Anyone have URL for the announcement? Thanks > > No, but I can't wait to see what happens when they realize it's a useless > bloated piece of crap and have to migrate to M$ Office2k. > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >tclug-list mailing list > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From dhanson2 at uswest.net Fri Jun 29 14:55:32 2001 From: dhanson2 at uswest.net (Doug Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00A829F@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <006d01c100d5$756609a0$eaaf7a81@doug> OK, Thanks. I am looking for something much faster, it's for work... Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austad, Jay" To: Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer > 1/4 PPM :), 300 dpi, Phaser II SDX. I dunno, $150 or so should take it. It > was over $4k new. 300dpi doesn't seem like much, but it's a professional > quality printer, you have to see the output to appreciate it. > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doug Hanson [mailto:dhanson2@uswest.net] > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:42 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer > > > > > > What model printer is it? What's the PPM, DPI? Price? > > > > Doug > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Austad, Jay" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:14 AM > > Subject: [TCLUG] Movin', must get rid of color printer > > > > > > > I'm moving to the wild city of Brooklyn park in under a > > month, and I don't > > > want to move my Tektronix Phaser II dye sublimation color > > printer. It > > works > > > just fine. I've tried to sell/trade it here before, and the only > > > interesting thing that came up was a sun monitor, which I > > may still be > > > interested in. > > > > > > Anyway, if you've never seen the output of a dye sub > > printer, it's pretty > > > much just like a photo. It prints on glossy paper, and I > > have a couple of > > > toner/celophane/whatever-it-uses refills. > > > > > > So, if anyone wants it, make me an offer. I'd be willing > > to trade for a > > > black and white laser printer since I'll get more use out > > of that, or > > > anything else interesting that someone might have. Money > > is good too > > > though. > > > > > > Jay > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From eng at pinenet.com Fri Jun 29 20:30:59 2001 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Re [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system@4.sdm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010630.1305900@LinWin.MShome> I don't mind a learning curve, but unnecessary complexity should be avoided. After downloading Ximian Gnome there were missing dependencies and altered start scripts all over the directory map. This was supposed to be an automatic install. It took me most of a day to find and repair the problems so I could get a useful X back. /etc/rc.config, and /sbin/init.d are not obvious places to look. Sure, you're a genius, but normal people want Linux computers, too. I've played with Unix-like OSs since the PDP-11 in the late 70s. The best OS I used was for an Epson QX10 personal computer I got in 1982. The OS was called "Valdocs" and it ran from floppies. It was a lot like "Midnight Commander," buttons and all, and allowed descriptive naming. Drivers were easy and fun to write and assemble. Then the IBM PC and DOS took over and and made everybody a "USER". Linux uses a 1970s file naming system but the amount of software has exploded. I'm glad others are trying to update this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 6/29/01, 9:48:18 AM, Nate Carlson wrote regarding Re [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system@4.sdm: > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > > directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > > help. > > > > Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. > > > > I'm using old SuSE 6.4. I've played with old and new Gnome, and old and > > new KDE. The stylistic "Nautilus" and "Konqueror" are dubious file > > manager improvements. > > > > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. > Uh, excuse me? > Have you looked at all the kludge that piles up in c:\winnt lately? > Can you explain what every single directory in c:\winnt does, and where > you should put file(s) when you need to do things? > Also, what's the point of c:, d:, e:, f:, etc? It makes so much more sense > to have stuff mounted in one large namespace instead of splitting it up > like that. > I'll take the UNIX-style file naming system any day.. it's logical. Maybe > a bit of a learning curve, but at least things generally follow some > order, and you can tell why things go where they do. > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ssinn at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 20:43:22 2001 From: ssinn at qwest.net (Spencer J Sinn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <20010629193924.B2048@localhost.localdomain>; from dchristian@users.sourceforge.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:39:24PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> <20010629180008.A5455@thor> <20010629191708.A1564@localhost.localdomain> <20010629193924.B2048@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629204322.B10139@thor> What distribution are you using that doesn't allow you to reconfig hostname etc? The X authority problem might be a group thing i.e. there may be an X group that you need to be added to... ? Anybody? Using SuSE and YaST for a year made my (already limited) brain, mushy. On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:39:24PM -0500, David Christian wrote: > Well, okay, it *sort* of works, now; it seems mn-linux.org is not as picky as some other places. If I try to send through sourceforge to myself, it ferrets out the fact that I'm from localhost@localdomain. > > (yes, I know, even behind a firewall where no one can see I could be more creative, but changing hostnames after the computer is initialized is a pain, and I haven't figured out how to make X work once I've changed host names, since I then I have authority problems.) > > I'm trying using the sendmail.mc features MASQUERADE_AS and FEATURE('masquerade_envelope') but neither of these seem to do a thing. > Any more advice? > > Thanks, > Dave From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 20:50:45 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > To me, that makes more sense than the Windows layout of different drive > letters. When you sit down at a UNIX box, things are always in the same > place, none of this on this computer D is the second hard drive and E is > the cd-rom, over here M and N are the cd-rom and burner, C is the hard > drive, and B is the Zip drive. On this machine C is the hard drive, D is > the cdrom, and E is the Zip drive. Actually, Unix is the same way, it's just that there's another layer of abstraction. This is the same thing that we just talked about with Jay Kline's question. /dev/hda is what Windows would call C. /dev/hdb is what Windows would call D. On that machine, /dev/hdb might be something different. *If* you're messing with the /dev directory, you get the same headache. The only way that Unix is better is that you aren't messing with the /dev directory! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From patrick at hamletmachine.com Fri Jun 29 16:36:05 2001 From: patrick at hamletmachine.com (Patrick Knoll) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> Message-ID: <01e001c100e3$80d73c10$697a5ca8@tk.wec.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Christian" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 16:10 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL > I can't seem to send mail from Linux using mutt and sendmail. The linux > machine is on LAN behind behind a Router, and so doesn't have a valid IP > address or domain name. > > Does anyone know how to configure sendmail so that the various MTAs out > there will believe me about who I am? Do I somehow need to relay to > Qwest.net's mail router? > > Here is a sample message I got back from NCSU: > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > rousseau@csc.ncsu.edu > (reason: 501 ... Sender domain must exist) *Runs screaming in terror* The last time I saw this error I was led into the bowels of sendmail.cf and the rewrite rules... I certainly hope someone out there has a better solition, or a firmer understanding of the one I was forced to use anyway. The problem is that the receiving mail server looks at "goliath.qwest.net" and tries to do a lookup on it to make sure it's a valid domain. Since it's a machine name within the qwest.net domain (I'm assuming) it naturally doesn't find it. I ended up configuring sendmail to strip the hostname portion of the sender address and fixed it that way - but I'm not a mail admin and I'm pretty sure that was the wrong way to correct the problem. From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 21:02:54 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Nate Carlson wrote: > Also, what's the point of c:, d:, e:, f:, etc? It makes so much more sense > to have stuff mounted in one large namespace instead of splitting it up > like that. Not necessarily. For doing logical volumes, it's nice to have a handle on the physical location. That's the way VMS (sorry to mention it 3 times in one day) handles things, but you can create a logical name and say that your directory, [foo.dir] is found on c:, d:, g:, and h:. Called bound volumes, and I think it's the wheel that the LVM project(s) are reinventing. One nice side effect is that there's no such thing as a partition, and if a disk gets full, you simply add another one to the system and tell it which directory has more space now. :) > I'll take the UNIX-style file naming system any day.. it's logical. No pun intended? But that's just it -- it is *only* logical. What's nice is to have physical/logical control at run-time, and then be able to make pretty symlinks so the user calls it /mydir. > Maybe a bit of a learning curve, but at least things generally follow > some order, and you can tell why things go where they do. Until they don't. :) Actually, though, that's not really a characteristic of the system but a reflection on how tidy the admins are. Like the desk/file cabinet balance between two different offices. Any file system is OK -- as long as you *USE* it! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Jun 29 21:18:51 2001 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome>; from eng@pinenet.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:51:45AM +0000 References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010629211850.B5442@iaxs.net> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:51:45AM +0000, Rick Engebretson wrote: > Pardon me for being dumb, but a major hurdle to learning Linux is the > directory. The file abbreviations are made for the text console and > keyboard, but with a nice GUI a descriptive name system would really > help. > > Also, the directory tree seems less than hierarcical. C:\Program Files - how many places in there will I find pieces of an MS Office install? How much of an MS Office install is not in C:\Program Files at all? C:\{arbitrary directory} - how many of these will be program directories where the programmer hard-coded the relative location off of \? How many of those don't allow you to install anywhere other than C:? C:\Documents & Setteing\UserID\Application Data\Temp for temp files? Sorry, they both have problems. Some may be the fault of the original file-system spec, some are definitely the fault of the application programmer. *nix seems - from my limited experience - to be more forgiving of the user / sysadmin deciding "I don't like where the programmer put this, it belongs _there_!" -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From wilson at visi.com Fri Jun 29 22:12:30 2001 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] grabbing images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Brian wrote: > I need to find a way to download images off of an http server. Is there > any way of doing this? What about wget? You should be able to script that. Look for it at freshmeat or wherever else you like. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.org W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 22:45:13 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629194749.F23320@blackice.localdomain>; from gabe@msi.umn.edu on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:47:49PM -0500 References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> <20010629194749.F23320@blackice.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629224508.A3071@real-time.com> > There's a /bin and a /usr/bin because, historically, /bin is on your > partition/slice/volume containing / and /usr/bin is on your > parition/slice/volume containing /usr. /bin conatins statically-linked > file (files which _contain_ the libs the need to run, rather than > "pointing" to the libs). at least that's the theory. it's a very nice _theory_. :) AFAIK, RedSmack dynamically links the stuff in /bin and /sbin. dunno about other distros. it's kind of irksome when a luser is told (by a so-called tech-support guy) to 'move libc.so.6 to libc.so, so that our binary-only application (informix) doesn't barf on the lack of that filename'. given a statically-linked shell, the user could have been walked through 'linux init=/bin/sh' to rename the file back; but no such luck. :( (and in case you're wondering; no, ash.static was not installed and the user didn't have rescue media that would handle their drive controller). OpenBSD statically links those files, tho. (not that I've tested this; I could be wrong). > And the whole concept of /usr/local is appaling :) It was historically > called /opt (optional stuff). /usr/local serves its purpose at times, tho. the BSDs use it for non-blessed software; and I think it's useful for non-packaged software. in case anyone's curious; I once heard a brief history of /usr. /usr was originally where the _user_ home directories were. then NFS came along and since home directories were shared among many machines; it made sense to put shared utilities where the shared space was; and /usr/bin, /usr/lib, and /usr/sbin were born. then admins started putting source code under that tree as well; and /usr/src was born. code that was gotten off the Internet (such as it was), or traded by other means, and put in /usr/src, didn't seem appropriate for the 'blessed' environments of /bin and /sbin; or even /usr/sbin and /usr/bin; so /usr/local (as in 'local to this installation') was created. eventually people said 'Hey, this is crowded here in /usr! let's just start from scratch with /home, and put people's home dirs there!' there's probably some inaccuracies in there. those who've been at this longer than I have, will probably be quick to correct me. :) /opt is vile and unnecessary and nothing should use it; unless the admin really *wants* to do it that way for some reason. if one has a small / partition, and doesn't create a mountpoint or symlink for /opt; programs that install in /opt will fill up the free space, and cause the admin headaches. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 22:46:49 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:02:54PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010629224649.B3071@real-time.com> > Not necessarily. For doing logical volumes, it's nice to have a handle on > the physical location. That's the way VMS (sorry to mention it 3 times in > one day) handles things, but you can create a logical name and say that > your directory, [foo.dir] is found on c:, d:, g:, and h:. Called bound > volumes, and I think it's the wheel that the LVM project(s) are > reinventing. I thought that's what disklabels are for? I don't know squat about disklabels, tho; so I could be wrong. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From jurupari at geocities.com Fri Jun 29 22:51:40 2001 From: jurupari at geocities.com (Mike) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] grabbing images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200106300351.f5U3pi100207@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On 29 Jun 01, at 11:40, Brian wrote: > I need to find a way to download images off of an http server. Is there > any way of doing this? I'm sure there's an obvious solution right under > my nose but I can't seem to find it. What I want to do is write a script That's funny, I was trying to figure out how to do this just the other day. > datetime_certainimage.jpg. Then I can pipe it through a java applet > and animate it. I have the java stuff worked out but I need to script the > saving of the image. Is there a utility out there that accomplishes I was trying to do this in Java. Since you mention Java, I will assume you will know what to do with this code. Here is a small part of the code I wrote to download a file. I am a novice Java programmer, so I don't claim that this is very efficient - only that it worked for what I was trying to do with some small files! My knowlege of I/O streams is very basic. I wanted to use buffered input and output, but I didn't have time to figure it out. This is just something quick and dirty you can use until you find something that works better. The program takes two command line arguments 1. the URL of the file you want to get. 2. the filename to write the file to. for example... $java DownloadFile "http://www.mn-linux.org/images/tclugminn.jpg" "logo.jpg" Here is the source... ================================================== DownloadFile.java ================================================== import java.io.*; import java.net.*; public class DownloadFile { public static void main( String[] args ) { boolean ok = false; ok = getFile( args[0], args[1] ); if( ok ) { System.out.println("File " + args[1] + " successfully downloaded." ); } else { System.out.println("download failed"); } } static boolean getFile( String page, String filename ) { // declare method variables BufferedInputStream bis = null; InputStream in = null; FileOutputStream fos = null; File file = null; URL url = null; // Try to create the URL object try { url = new URL( page ); } catch( MalformedURLException e ) { System.out.println( "error: could not find URL object" ); } // Try to create the output file object and download it try { in = url.openStream(); file = new File( filename ); System.out.println( "File : " + url.getFile() ); fos = new FileOutputStream( file ); System.out.println(" writing file " + url.getFile() ); // Get the input and write it to the output for(int ch ; -1 != (ch=in.read()) ; ) { fos.write( ch ); } fos.close(); in.close(); } catch( IOException ioe ) { ioe.printStackTrace(); return false; } return true; } } ================================================== Let me know if you find any ways to improve it! Mike Glaser From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 22:52:23 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629224508.A3071@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > in case anyone's curious; I once heard a brief history of /usr. > /usr was originally where the _user_ home directories were. IRIX defaults to /usr/people/* for user home directories, at least as of 6.5.(5?) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jun 29 22:54:44 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <20010629224649.B3071@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > Not necessarily. For doing logical volumes, it's nice to have a handle on > > the physical location. That's the way VMS (sorry to mention it 3 times in > > one day) handles things, but you can create a logical name and say that > > your directory, [foo.dir] is found on c:, d:, g:, and h:. Called bound > > volumes, and I think it's the wheel that the LVM project(s) are > > reinventing. > > I thought that's what disklabels are for? > I don't know squat about disklabels, tho; so I could be wrong. I'm not sure we're not saying the same thing. Maybe a bound volume *gets* a disklable? Last one to figure it out's a rotten egg. :) -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 22:55:51 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail and DSL In-Reply-To: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain>; from dchristian@users.sourceforge.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 04:10:15PM -0500 References: <001201c100df$e4e98220$0500000a@localdomain> Message-ID: <20010629225551.A31173@real-time.com> Quoting David Christian (dchristian@users.sourceforge.net): > I can't seem to send mail from Linux using mutt and sendmail. The linux > machine is on LAN behind behind a Router, and so doesn't have a valid IP > address or domain name. > > Does anyone know how to configure sendmail so that the various MTAs out > there will believe me about who I am? Do I somehow need to relay to > Qwest.net's mail router? > > Here is a sample message I got back from NCSU: Do you have a static IP? According to dig, you don't have an MX record, so mail won't get there. According to nslookup, goliath.qwest.net does not even exist. My recommendation is get a real ISP that will give you a subnet. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 23:05:18 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:22 2005 Subject: Re [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system@4.sdm In-Reply-To: <20010630.1305900@LinWin.MShome>; from eng@pinenet.com on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:30:59AM +0000 References: <20010630.1305900@LinWin.MShome> Message-ID: <20010629230513.C3071@real-time.com> > I don't mind a learning curve, but unnecessary complexity should be > avoided. After downloading Ximian Gnome there were missing dependencies > and altered start scripts all over the directory map. This was supposed > to be an automatic install. yeah, ximian's installer is less than perfect. the one time I used it, I went for the 'minimal install', then re-ran it to get the fuller versions, without breaking too many dependencies. > It took me most of a day to find and repair the problems so I could get a > useful X back. /etc/rc.config, and /sbin/init.d are not obvious places to > look. Sure, you're a genius, but normal people want Linux computers, too. /etc/rc.config? /sbin/init.d? what distro is this? As I understand things; anything ending in .d is a directory full of config files (something that should *not* be in /sbin; should be in /etc). /etc/rc.config sounds like a BSD-ism... OpenBSD uses /etc/rc.conf; but it's got a very simple init structure compared to Linux (for better or for worse). the fact that the installer broke your system, is more a comment about the installer, than the naming scheme of the system. :) > Linux uses a 1970s file naming > system but the amount of software has exploded. at least it's ahead of DOS, with its 1960's naming scheme. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jun 29 23:07:15 2001 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: ; from mend0070@tc.umn.edu on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:52:23PM -0500 References: <20010629224508.A3071@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20010629230715.D3071@real-time.com> > IRIX defaults to /usr/people/* for user home directories, at least as of > 6.5.(5?) OpenBSD was still trying to create home dirs under /usr, as of OBSD 2.5. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From andy at theasis.com Fri Jun 29 23:58:10 2001 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rsync Question In-Reply-To: <3B3CB00D.E2388E79@uswest.net> Message-ID: > Greet the sun all, The sun is the sun. It sends no greeting, and appreciates none. > For people who use rsync on a regular basis: Is it possible to provide > multiple sources? I looked at the man page and the rsync website > (rsync.samba.org) and all the examples use a single source. I need to > do something like this: > > rsync -avR /opt/tmp/foo.html, /opt/tmp/picture.jpg webserver.somewhere.org::htdocs This isn't really about rsync... you want to use the shell to expand this: rsync -avR {/opt/tmp/foo.html,/opt/tmp/picture.jpg} webserver.blah::htdocs and you're also using '-e ssh', right? Andy From list at slushpupie.com Sat Jun 30 01:23:45 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting In-Reply-To: <20010629201756.A10139@thor> References: <20010629201756.A10139@thor> Message-ID: <01063001234500.01067@friday.tarsk.com> The only problem with this is the number and contents of these files are constantly changing. It would be nice to have the script be self containing so that when you add a user "john" with aliases "johna" and "johnb" you dont have to do it twice. Jay On Friday 29 June 2001 8:17 pm, you wrote: > My only idea is, rather than have the script look through all the files > for aliases, why not make a file of just the names you want left out? > That way everything is in one place... this is the change I would make > (with alias_file containing the names you want to leave out). > > for i in `cat alias_file` > do > ... > Just my $0.02 > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:46:35AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > > I am working on a cgi script (written using sh) that will output qmail > > aliases. I need to create some way to filter the output so that certain > > things are not displayed. It needs to eliminate output for: > > * aliases that go to /dev/null > > * aliases where the name of the alias is contained in the first line of > > the file > > (eg- $i="john" in the script below, and the file's first line is > > "johna") * aliases where the first line of the file is contained in the > > filename (eg- $i="johnb" in the script below and the first line of the > > file is "john") > > > > > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > > > The main part of the script looks like this: > > > > echo "" > > for i in $aliases; > > do > > if [ -n "$nofilter" ]; > > then > > echo "" > > echo "" > > else > > if [ -z "`grep /dev/null /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i`" ]; then > > echo "" > > echo "" > > fi > > fi > > done > > echo "
$i
"
> > 		cat /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i
> > 		echo "
$i
"
> > 			cat /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i
> > 			echo "
" > > > > -- > > Jay > > Publishing Business Systems > > 651-634-9217 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Small things make base men proud. -- William Shakespeare, "Henry VI" From list at slushpupie.com Sat Jun 30 01:42:29 2001 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Client Search Message-ID: <01063001422901.01067@friday.tarsk.com> I am in search of a decent mail client. So far, the best I have found has been KMail. It seems to have everything in I want in a client, but I do have one problem with it: the rules. Perhaps I am the only one out there doing something as strange as this, but here is my setup: * I have jay@iexposure.com which is my work account. I want that to have its own inbox, and be able to set the identity to incoming mail (not a problem) * I have slushpupie@iexposure.com which is my personal account. I also want this to have its own inbox, etc (same as the other one, not a problem) * I have jay@tarsk.com for administriation of some specific sites, same deal * I have my own domain name slushpupie.com and have all mail going to one account on it (ie you can send mail to asdf@slushpupie.com and I will get it). I want to use filters to sort out where all this mail belongs. So if it comes in as list@slushpupie.com it sets the identity to list@slushpupie.com and if it has [TCLUG] in the subject, it puts it in the TCLUG folder. I have all the rules set up for this, but they dont work real well. Does anyone know if I can make this happen with Kmail? Or does anyone have a suggestion for a better mail client? Jay From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 30 01:52:47 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [estoker623@bugjuise.net: Boost Your Windows Reliability..... 9726] In-Reply-To: <20010629193143.A8752@thor>; from ssinn@qwest.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:31:43PM -0500 References: <20010629011907.M31165@real-time.com> <20010629193143.A8752@thor> Message-ID: <20010630015246.A23020@beaver.iucha.org> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:31:43PM -0500, Spencer J Sinn wrote: > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:07:41AM -0500, Brian wrote: > A minor script change as previously posted by another > > > > I think I wrote a program similar to this: > > > > #!/bin/sh > > > > mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/win32 > > cat `find . -depth -print` | mailx -s TAKE IT BACK wgates@microsoft.com billg@microsoft.gom florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jun 30 01:53:37 2001 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Any Cybercash people? Message-ID: <20010630015337.B3469@real-time.com> Anyone worked with Cybercash enough to understand the -implementation- details? Like what algorithm(s) does it use when a merchant sends a CPI or MO to the Cybercash server? I get a mix of info. Some web pages say RSA other 3DES. Now, if I get RSA right, it offers both encryption and digital signatures. And it's a public-key cryptosystem, so it's slower. DES is a symmetric cryptosystem and it just does encryption, but it's faster. Cybercash hides their encryption and decryption inside a binary lib or an statically linked stripped executable. What I want to do is implement it all in Java without JNI or exec(). I got it all down except the encryption part. Any encrption gurus who can lend me a hand? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From florin at iucha.net Sat Jun 30 02:01:01 2001 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Client Search In-Reply-To: <01063001422901.01067@friday.tarsk.com>; from list@slushpupie.com on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:42:29AM -0500 References: <01063001422901.01067@friday.tarsk.com> Message-ID: <20010630020101.B23020@beaver.iucha.org> On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:42:29AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > I am in search of a decent mail client. So far, the best I have found has > been KMail. It seems to have everything in I want in a client, but I do have > one problem with it: the rules. Perhaps I am the only one out there > doing something as strange as this, but here is my setup: > > * I have jay@iexposure.com which is my work account. I want that to have its > own inbox, and be able to set the identity to incoming mail (not a problem) > * I have slushpupie@iexposure.com which is my personal account. I also want > this to have its own inbox, etc (same as the other one, not a problem) > * I have jay@tarsk.com for administriation of some specific sites, same deal > * I have my own domain name slushpupie.com and have all mail going to one > account on it (ie you can send mail to asdf@slushpupie.com and I will get > it). I want to use filters to sort out where all this mail belongs. So if it > comes in as list@slushpupie.com it sets the identity to list@slushpupie.com > and if it has [TCLUG] in the subject, it puts it in the TCLUG folder. > > I have all the rules set up for this, but they dont work real well. Does > anyone know if I can make this happen with Kmail? Or does anyone have a > suggestion for a better mail client? Two words: mutt + procmail florin -- "you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect" 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From thomas at stderr.net Sat Jun 30 02:09:27 2001 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Client Search In-Reply-To: <20010630020101.B23020@beaver.iucha.org>; from florin@iucha.net on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:01:01AM -0500 References: <01063001422901.01067@friday.tarsk.com> <20010630020101.B23020@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010630090926.A75783@io.stderr.net> On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:01:01AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > > I have all the rules set up for this, but they dont work real well. Does > > anyone know if I can make this happen with Kmail? Or does anyone have a > > suggestion for a better mail client? > > Two words: mutt + procmail Amen! -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer From thomas at stderr.net Sat Jun 30 02:14:38 2001 From: thomas at stderr.net (Thomas Eibner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] grabbing images In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 11:40:00AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010630091438.B75783@io.stderr.net> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 11:40:00AM -0500, Brian wrote: > I need to find a way to download images off of an http server. Is there > any way of doing this? I'm sure there's an obvious solution right under > my nose but I can't seem to find it. What I want to do is write a script > to put in cron.hourly that goes to some website > (www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg) and saves it with a filename of > datetime_certainimage.jpg. Then I can pipe it through a java applet > and animate it. I have the java stuff worked out but I need to script the > saving of the image. Is there a utility out there that accomplishes > this? I tried lynx www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg > file but lynx > didn't like that. TIA! A little perl script should do the trick: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; use LWP::Simple; getstore('http://www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg', '/path/' . time . '_certainimage.jpg'); __END__ -- Thomas Eibner DnsZone mod_pointer From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Jun 30 08:06:37 2001 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [TCLUG-DEVEL] Any Cybercash people? References: <20010630015337.B3469@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3B3DCEDD.2060406@ringworld.org> Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone worked with Cybercash enough to understand the -implementation- details? I think theres a module in CPAN for it. But I might be wrong. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ #linuxos@irc.openprojects.net From nate at techie.com Sat Jun 30 10:23:27 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] grabbing images References: Message-ID: <20010630102327.C17957@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 11:40:00AM -0500, Brian wrote: > I need to find a way to download images off of an http server. Is there > any way of doing this? [...] > I tried lynx www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg > file but lynx > didn't like that. TIA! lynx -source www.somesite/images/certainimage.jpg > file Nate From nate at techie.com Sat Jun 30 10:23:24 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting References: Message-ID: <20010630102324.B17957@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Looks like a challenge. Here are some untested suggestions that might might get you on the right track. It does strike me odd that your dot-qmail files look like that. On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:46:35AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > * aliases where the name of the alias is contained in the first line of the > file (eg- $i="john" in the script below, and the file's first line > is "johna") [ -z `grep "^$i.*" /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$i` ]; > * aliases where the first line of the file is contained in the filename > (eg- $i="johnb" in the script below and the first line of the > file is "john") [ -z "`echo $i | grep $(head -1 /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-$)`" ]; > Does anyone have any ideas? It might be easier to make a pass at the files and extract all this data. Then you can just process groups of three strings. Nate From nate at techie.com Sat Jun 30 10:23:31 2001 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mail Client Search References: <01063001422901.01067@friday.tarsk.com> <20010630020101.B23020@beaver.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20010630102331.D17957@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:01:01AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:42:29AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > > I am in search of a decent mail client. So far, the best I have found has > > been KMail. It seems to have everything in I want in a client, but I do have > Two words: mutt + procmail This combination has worked for me for over three years. You get to use awesome regular expressions everywhere and you read your mail from anywhere you have ssh access to your machine. For the home user, add in fetchmail and you have the best mail (reader) solution. Nate From esper at sherohman.org Sat Jun 30 13:15:00 2001 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proxy ARP? Message-ID: <20010630131500.E393@sherohman.org> I've recently moved to an area that's still selling bridged DSL instead of routed, but lack-of-firewall is making me unhappy. I did some searching for information on setting up a packet-filtering bridge and the results seem to indicate that proxy arp is the way to do it. However, one of the two mini-HOWTOs I've turned up on proxy arp is aimed at using it to create a pseudo-router and the other is focused on a fairly specific uasage in conjuction with PPP/SLIP. What I currently have is 4 IP addresses hanging directly off one of the telco's class Cs, 255.255.255.0 netmask and all. What I want to have is one of these addresses acting as a firewall for the other three, without the other three noticing that they're no longer directly attached to the class C. Is proxy arp the way for me to go or is there a better way for me to get there? -- That's not gibberish... It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen Geek Code 3.12: GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+ From gabe at msi.umn.edu Sat Jun 30 13:39:31 2001 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proxy ARP? In-Reply-To: <20010630131500.E393@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:15:00PM -0500 References: <20010630131500.E393@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20010630133931.A2682@squall.localdomain> > Is proxy arp the way for me to go or is there a better way for me to get > there? Well, I've never used proxy arp, but this can be done with openbsd. You put two NICs in your machine, one for incoming connection, one that goes to a hub/switch for your other machines. Neither of the interfaces needs to use one of your "live" IP addresses. In fact, I don't think they need IPs at all. OpenBSD has a device called bridge0 that you would tell IPF to use. It's not a simple task and will require quite a bit of reading. But once you've got it up, it's a perfectly transparent bridge. You tell IPF which packets you want to throw away and it does so as they come across the line. I love having machines that people can ssh into, but can't ping. :) Now, OpenBSD isn't your only solution. The exact same thing can be accomplished in Free and NetBSD as well, and I believe in Linux too, though I haven't played with bridging in Linux. I thought someone mentioned it maybe a month or so ago... Did you check the archives? Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org Sat Jun 30 14:31:15 2001 From: moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proxy ARP? In-Reply-To: <20010630133931.A2682@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: Gabe is correct in that there's a readily documented solution to this on OpenBSD. The internal NIC should have a non-routable IP so your local network can maintain the bridging router. The external NIC would not have an IP. You *could* just not assign an IP to any NICs and then you'd just have to go the console to admin it. Just a note, given all the IPF->pf wierdness in *BSD and OpenBSD lately... The stock 2.9 distro has IPF. You can also apply the patches at http://www.openbsd.org/errata.html AND/OR track the patch branch. The only OpenBSD that *doesn't* have IPF support is the -current source tree. You'll have to get it installed using a stock distro first anyway so you still get to use IPF. (pf is coming out shortly) Josh On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Gabe Turner wrote: > > Is proxy arp the way for me to go or is there a better way for me to get > > there? > > Well, I've never used proxy arp, but this can be done with openbsd. You > put two NICs in your machine, one for incoming connection, one that > goes to a hub/switch for your other machines. Neither of the interfaces > needs to use one of your "live" IP addresses. In fact, I don't think they > need IPs at all. OpenBSD has a device called bridge0 that you would tell > IPF to use. > > It's not a simple task and will require quite a bit of reading. But once > you've got it up, it's a perfectly transparent bridge. You tell IPF which > packets you want to throw away and it does so as they come across the line. > I love having machines that people can ssh into, but can't ping. :) > > Now, OpenBSD isn't your only solution. The exact same thing can be > accomplished in Free and NetBSD as well, and I believe in Linux too, though > I haven't played with bridging in Linux. > > I thought someone mentioned it maybe a month or so ago... Did you check the > archives? > > Gabe > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu > SGI Origin Systems Administrator, > University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute > for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org Sat Jun 30 14:31:15 2001 From: moomonk at aaieee.daisy-chan.org (Joshua Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Proxy ARP? In-Reply-To: <20010630133931.A2682@squall.localdomain> Message-ID: Gabe is correct in that there's a readily documented solution to this on OpenBSD. The internal NIC should have a non-routable IP so your local network can maintain the bridging router. The external NIC would not have an IP. You *could* just not assign an IP to any NICs and then you'd just have to go the console to admin it. Just a note, given all the IPF->pf wierdness in *BSD and OpenBSD lately... The stock 2.9 distro has IPF. You can also apply the patches at http://www.openbsd.org/errata.html AND/OR track the patch branch. The only OpenBSD that *doesn't* have IPF support is the -current source tree. You'll have to get it installed using a stock distro first anyway so you still get to use IPF. (pf is coming out shortly) Josh On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Gabe Turner wrote: > > Is proxy arp the way for me to go or is there a better way for me to get > > there? > > Well, I've never used proxy arp, but this can be done with openbsd. You > put two NICs in your machine, one for incoming connection, one that > goes to a hub/switch for your other machines. Neither of the interfaces > needs to use one of your "live" IP addresses. In fact, I don't think they > need IPs at all. OpenBSD has a device called bridge0 that you would tell > IPF to use. > > It's not a simple task and will require quite a bit of reading. But once > you've got it up, it's a perfectly transparent bridge. You tell IPF which > packets you want to throw away and it does so as they come across the line. > I love having machines that people can ssh into, but can't ping. :) > > Now, OpenBSD isn't your only solution. The exact same thing can be > accomplished in Free and NetBSD as well, and I believe in Linux too, though > I haven't played with bridging in Linux. > > I thought someone mentioned it maybe a month or so ago... Did you check the > archives? > > Gabe > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu > SGI Origin Systems Administrator, > University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute > for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From clarson at iaxs.net Sat Jun 30 18:08:41 2001 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester A. Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Printers Message-ID: <002201c101b9$9bde4fe0$ea8486d1@clarson> Hoow does a person hook up a printer ( HP laserJet ll) to RHLinux 7.0 clarson@iaxs.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010630/13ed4f38/attachment.html From seg at haxxed.com Sat Jun 30 18:26:01 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system References: <20010629.9514500@LinWin.MShome> <20010629082733.B21688@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3B3E6009.5E4F7194@haxxed.com> > > MS Windows (since 3.0) does have a very clean directory and system > > configuration structure. I realize this is an apples and oranges > > comparison. But even simple configuration of Linux isn't simple. Yes, everythings either in c:\windows, c:\windows\system or in the registry. Its that simple! From seg at haxxed.com Sat Jun 30 18:45:21 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system References: Message-ID: <3B3E6491.1473F31B@haxxed.com> > Not necessarily. For doing logical volumes, it's nice to have a handle on > the physical location. That's the way VMS (sorry to mention it 3 times in > one day) handles things, but you can create a logical name and say that > your directory, [foo.dir] is found on c:, d:, g:, and h:. Called bound > volumes, and I think it's the wheel that the LVM project(s) are > reinventing. Nah, HP already re-invented that wheel. Linux is just stealing the hubcaps... From seg at haxxed.com Sat Jun 30 18:50:04 2001 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system References: Message-ID: <3B3E65AC.E9904931@haxxed.com> > I think the directory structure is a little odd at first, but once you > learn it it makes more sense (to me anyways). The one thing that still > bugs me though is all the variations of bin laying around.. /bin, > /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin. Why is there a /bin and a > /usr/bin? and although I can see the logic of keeping root-only utils in > /sbin, if you have to be root to run them anyway, why not dump it all in > /bin? I'm planning to start doing this on some of my boxen, dump all the > files from /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin into /bin and then symlink the old > bin directories, since I assume stuff is compiled to look for /usr/sbin > and whatnot. Any reason why I couldn't do this? Nope. Ain't Linux great... Personally I hate the practice that seems to have turned up lately of putting useful luser utilities like traceroute in /usr/sbin. What the hell? Since when is traceroute a root util? From spencer at sihope.com Sat Jun 30 19:22:05 2001 From: spencer at sihope.com (AAAunderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Printers In-Reply-To: <002201c101b9$9bde4fe0$ea8486d1@clarson> References: <002201c101b9$9bde4fe0$ea8486d1@clarson> Message-ID: <01063019220500.25051@usurper> On Saturday 30 June 2001 06:08 pm, you wrote: > Hoow does a person hook up a printer ( HP laserJet ll) to RHLinux 7.0 I would suggest an IEEE 1284 cable. > clarson@iaxs.net ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- deltree c:\windows /y From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 30 20:28:26 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux directory naming system In-Reply-To: <3B3E6491.1473F31B@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Not necessarily. For doing logical volumes, it's nice to have a handle on > > the physical location. That's the way VMS (sorry to mention it 3 times in > > one day) handles things, but you can create a logical name and say that > > your directory, [foo.dir] is found on c:, d:, g:, and h:. Called bound > > volumes, and I think it's the wheel that the LVM project(s) are > > reinventing. > > Nah, HP already re-invented that wheel. Linux is just stealing the > hubcaps... But at least Linux is giving them away instead of trying to fence them! -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 30 20:32:04 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Printers In-Reply-To: <002201c101b9$9bde4fe0$ea8486d1@clarson> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Chester A. Larson wrote: > Hoow does a person hook up a printer ( HP laserJet ll) to RHLinux 7.0 I like lprng as a print spooler, and then use magicfilterconfig to write you a /etc/printcap file. I confess that's a Debian default, but I'd venture that there are rpm's for the same. You could also use apsfilter instead of magicfilter. I think there's a Priting-HOWTO at www.linuxdoc.org, but their down for some maintenance at the moment. HTH -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous From jstauffer at spscommerce.com Sat Jun 30 21:30:20 2001 From: jstauffer at spscommerce.com (James Stauffer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Filter DNS Message-ID: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AFF0@spedi-exchange> Is is possible to setup a DNS server that only satisfies requests that match filters? I thought that might be a good way to allow my little brother to only access certain sites on his computer(Win98) without constanly updating his hosts files (He doesn't have a DNS server set, only his hosts file). Both his computer and the Linux box share a connection through a router. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20010630/97e8c938/attachment.htm From mend0070 at tc.umn.edu Sat Jun 30 21:33:46 2001 From: mend0070 at tc.umn.edu (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Filter DNS In-Reply-To: <29003634378AD4119E940050046C0CDF01E4AFF0@spedi-exchange> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, James Stauffer wrote: > Is is possible to setup a DNS server that only satisfies requests that match > filters? I thought that might be a good way to allow my little brother to > only access certain sites on his computer(Win98) without constanly updating > his hosts files (He doesn't have a DNS server set, only his hosts file). > Both his computer and the Linux box share a connection through a router. You could do packet filtering at the router. I don't think DNS is where you want to do it. -- "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous