From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 1 03:09:20 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: <02013106485601.00764@geezer> References: <200201311021.g0VALOW01391@localhost.localdomain> <02013106485601.00764@geezer> Message-ID: <02013121000100.09123@edith> If the interest in Slackware installs is not great, I might have a moment or two to expound on some subjects. I am hindered somewhat by not knowing current versions of the gui tools to configure some things in other distros, but can ramble on about how some things work in general if need be. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From houle at citilink.com Fri Feb 1 03:14:12 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: <200201311021.g0VALOW01391@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: As Samir M. Nassar has asked if any seminars around about Linux and Jack Ungerleider responded about TCPC I would like to expound a little further on that. As President of the Twin Cities PC Users group(TCPC) I felt the same void existed in not even knowing what question to ask. The Installfest did not help me in day to day transition from a Windows world and this list generally above my understanding. Therefore, I tried to recruit a few people from this list to share their knowledge. Jack Ungerleider was one who volunteered as well as a few others. The intent was to try and make one of TCPC's Saturday sessions a Linux session with the help of these knowledgeable volunteers. TCPC has been basically a Windows group and on Saturday we have a Systems On Saturday. It seemed like a win\win for our group and Linux wantabees. Currently I am trying to make the 2nd Saturday of the month Linux on Saturday as Jack mentioned. Not a lot of magic is the second Saturday but knowing the TCLUG stuff is the first Saturday and therefore but it in the second Saturday slot at least for now. I would also like to try and get a General Meeting of TCPC to talk about Linux and would need the volunteer efforts of the volunteers. The General Meeting is the second Tuesday of the month and in the evening at 7PM. So the short answer to the question is TCPC is trying to offer some of the "seminar" that are desired. I believe our April General Meeting does not have a speaker lined up and that would be the next opportunity for Linux. If anyone is interested our March General Meeting is on Wireless Networking. More information can be found on the TCPC website at; http://www.tcpc.com Hope that helps clarify and we can be of help to others as well. Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Samir M. Nassar > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:21 AM > To: TC-LUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar > > > I know Munir is going to give a Red Hat install lecture. > > Is it possible to have a Linux lecture, or is there a place that > offers Linux > lectures in the Cities? > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Feb 1 03:15:46 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (nassarsa@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] libmng problems WAS Problems with 'make' In-Reply-To: <20020131175537.D10908@real-time.com> References: <20020131175537.D10908@real-time.com> Message-ID: <35164.162.96.165.147.1012538814.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Bob, That is just it. I am running KDE. Aside from some stray GNOME apps I have no GNOME. My only Window Manager is KDE, although Red Hat sets it to GNOME as default. By all means it should work. In any case, I am wiping my Linux partitions and making a clean install tomorrow. That way the computer is virginal for Installfest. I'll bring all the stuff I want/need/suspect I need on a CD that should make it easier. For installfest it'll probably be ready to go with kernel 2.4.9-21 with all the latest updates from RH. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 1 15:12:36 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02020106470000.09311@edith> Or some people interested in Linux "could" go to a Linux User Group meeting for Linux content? The TCLUG is probably a good place to have meetings with Linux as the topic. More chance of finding a speaker on the subject as well. Good luck in getting them to stop talking once you get them going :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 31 January 2002 22:37, Terry Houle wrote: -------SNIP--------- From blarson at crary.com Fri Feb 1 15:16:20 2002 From: blarson at crary.com (Bradley D. Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point Message-ID: <3C5AC349.184D837@crary.com> > I just got the laterst edition of "Linux Journal" in the mail and the > cover story is about setting up your own wireless network at home. I read this article and thought to myself.... Why?... unless you have all the spare parts laying around and you can't find a better use for them. You can by access points D-Link DWL-1000AP for $131 LinkSys WAP11 for $139 that will do the same thing and a whole lot easier to configure and lower power consumption. I used to have a coyote linux box (486) set up when I was on dial up and that at least made sense I could share all my home computers on one dialup/firewall (I have 5 computers throughout the house). It's a good exercise in getting to know how to configure linux and get different tasks completed. However, the best reason I can come up with is... "because you can". Regards... Brad. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: blarson.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 386 bytes Desc: Card for Bradley D. Larson Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020201/3aef8aec/blarson.vcf From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Fri Feb 1 15:16:47 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202011640.g11Geqb01002@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Thursday 31 January 2002 10:37 pm, Terry Houle wrote: >The General > Meeting is the second Tuesday of the month and in the evening at 7PM. > So the short answer to the question is TCPC is trying to offer some of the > "seminar" that are desired. I believe our April General Meeting does not > have a speaker lined up and that would be the next opportunity for Linux. ...Another good opportunity, but unfortunately I work in the evenings. Linux is starting to get noticed by the press and that certainly helps spread the word to the general public. Your grass-roots effort to bring new Linux users into the fold helps to keep the long tradition of "community" alive-and-well. Your diligence is appreciated Terry. I will have my article on Lycoris Linux finished soon and hope to present at next months meeting on Saturday. Also notice that Xandros (www.Xandros.net) is soon to release version 1.0 of thier Linux Desktop OS to beta testers. This distribution is based on Corel Linux and may prove to be the best of all for newbies. I signed up to be a beta tester and hope to see good things... From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Fri Feb 1 15:18:24 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux/PS2 I warned you guys Message-ID: <3C5AD727.BAD4731B@attbroadband.com> SONY announces it will sell a Linux development kit for the Play Station II http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-825801.html I warned you guys. - Paul Overby xpoverby@attbroadband.com From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Sat Feb 2 00:07:01 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux/PS2 I warned you guys Message-ID: <7f.20ef9cca.298c6142@cs.com> that is sure to make M$ mad....i like it....im gunna buy it even though it costs alot In a message dated 2/1/02 1:21:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, xpoverby@attbroadband.com writes: > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-825801.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020202/d3063f30/attachment.html From wlayer at attbroadband.com Sat Feb 2 00:09:16 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Get your party on!! (Post-Installfest party @ Legendres) Message-ID: <20020201152551.017981eb.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Post Installfest party, Saturday Feb 2nd 2002 8pm til-??? At Dr. Legendre's house, read full full info at: http://frogtown.dynu.com/UserX/party All TCLUG members & friends are invited. Minors at their own peril. (This is NOT a TCLUG event, but might resemble one..) -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From phillips at churchillnet.com Sat Feb 2 00:10:42 2002 From: phillips at churchillnet.com (Rick Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and W2K Netlogon Message-ID: <00bc01c1ab68$084bd320$0b64a8c0@rickw2k> Does anyone have a suggestion on getting drives to map on a Win2K computer that is logging into a domain controlled by a Samba box? I have set up a test network with a Win98, Win2K and a RedHat 7.1 computer running Samba 2.2.2. I have successfully created a machine account for my W2K machine, and can log into the domain/computer with both my Win98 and Win2K computers. However, I can't seem to get a netlogon file to run on the Win2K machine, but can get it to work on the Win98 computer (i.e. map drives and set the time). I have created a directory /home/netlogon, and have put files called: logon.bat, logon.cmd, phillips.bat, and phillips.cmd in that share with 777 permissions. (I know that is not proper, but at least for testing, I know that I don't have a permission issue). Anyhow, the Win2K machine looks like it is running the scripts, but the drives do not get mapped. However, if I browse to that directory via samba, I am able to double-click on the file and the scripts run just fine. I have tried setting the logon script = to all of the above files, including %U.bat. Any ideas? FYI - There is a good article on this subject in the recent issue of Linux Magazine. Rick Phillips Churchill Capital / Churchill Industries (612) 673-6738 phillips@churchillnet.com From bobdove at pipeline.com Sat Feb 2 00:11:52 2002 From: bobdove at pipeline.com (Bob W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: <02020106470000.09311@edith> References: <02020106470000.09311@edith> Message-ID: <4b2m5usuv5ndlg64vaqt9gvbmmetsvmg2b@4ax.com> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 06:47:00 -0600, you wrote: >Or some people interested in Linux "could" go to a Linux User Group meeting >for Linux content? The TCLUG is probably a good place to have meetings with >Linux as the topic. I disagree, Kelley. I've just about given up on TCLUG as my questions seems to generate overly warm responses from those experts who seem impatient with a newbie's confusion. I attended the SOS Linux meeting of TC/PC last month and found a much different reception. I think it is just very difficult for very knowledgeable and well-trained individuals to remember the totally lost feeling of the beginner in a strange land, and unfortunately their impatience gets communicated, sometimes not too subtly. Bob W. Anderson Mandrake since 1999 Computers since 1980 From houle at citilink.com Sat Feb 2 00:14:41 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing RH 7.2 Message-ID: In trying to install Red Hat 7.2 I get to the end and it is loading and then gets "stuck" at the Gnome splash screen and stays on "panel". Before it would get past that but it brought up Nautilus and there was no panel at the bottom of the screen. Anyone got any simple ideas? I don't want to have to haul it to the Installfest tomorrow if I can fix it simply. I have reloaded several times and essentially the same problem. TIA Terry Houle From jimstreit at northlans.com Sat Feb 2 00:17:41 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Linux Courses @ Saint Paul Tech Message-ID: <200202010333.g113XSx18398@linuxserver.northlans.com> hanks for the information. I have started taking the Beginners Linux class on Wednesday nights. Mostly easy stuff right now, but looks like it should be a great place to build a foundation. Thanks, I had been looking around for classes for some time now. Jim > Saint Paul Technical College has Linux courses. > Beginners Linux Monday and Wednesday Night. > Linux Admin Thursday night. > Linux C/C++ was dropped. > Linux Networking probable this summer. > > Visit www.sptc.mnscu.edu > for enrollment and > www.sptc.mnscu.edu/academics/catalog/catalog_c.pdf > for course descriptions. > > Linux students must have IDE ATA/33 or ATA/66 4Mb+ HD > and RH-32 rack for removable hard drives. These can > be purchased at school bookstore. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-announce mailing list > tclug-announce@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sat Feb 2 00:19:09 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: <02020106470000.09311@edith> References: <02020106470000.09311@edith> Message-ID: <200202012252.g11Mq8M01414@localhost.localdomain> Hmm, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have more Linux venues. Let me advocate for the Linux virgins. The TCLUG seems like it deals with more technical aspects, and issues that really go over the head of the individual user. Having Linux seminars at PCUG would be a good idea for newbies and for people thinking about making the jump from MicroCrap to Linux. Or the LUG starts thinking about starting monthly meetings that are more heavily advertised geared to Linux newbies and Linux virgins. It might also be interesting to find funding from various foundations for computer education. We might be able to ties this in with the recession. It is one thing to expect the Linux experts to give their time to the Linux community, but expansion needs finances. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From natecars at real-time.com Sat Feb 2 00:21:00 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <1012501599.4037.12.camel@merlin> Message-ID: On 31 Jan 2002, Dave Royer wrote: > I just got the laterst edition of "Linux Journal" in the mail and the > cover story is about setting up your own wireless network at home. > > My question is, has anyone set up a base station using one of the > Orinoco cards? I've used Orinoco cards under Linux; haven't done base station mode, though. (IIRC, they can't become a true base station, just ad-hoc mode..) > I tried playing with the D-Link DWL-650 card which is based on the > Prism2 chip but it doesn't look like it is possible to work with it > without a whole lot of work modifying binary images and updating the > firmware. Nope. If you grab the prism2-hostap drivers, it'll work fine without the tertiary firmware. Otherwise, there are plenty of (illegal) copies of the firmware floating around the 'net that you can get easily. > Looking at a few sites, it seems that the Orinoco cards are much > better supported but before I grab some I wanted to see if anyone has > experience with them versus the Prism2 cards. Prism2 cards work very well once you get everything configured.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Feb 2 00:25:14 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Need help with little SCSI card In-Reply-To: <070f30146010122FE5@mail5.mn.rr.com> References: <070f30146010122FE5@mail5.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: Michael J Flaherty writes: > The "hardware browser" identifies the card correctly but it is not properly > configured, as far as I can tell. I am positive that there are no IRQ or I/O > conflicts. Upon what are you basing this statement? Did you actually jumper the card and make sure that those are valid? Since you state that you're eth0 stops working, I'd bet that you do have a conflict. After you fixthe conflict use the following to get it work. As a module: insmod aha152x aha152x=0x, In the kernel: append ="aha152x=0x," -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sat Feb 2 00:26:41 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wine Message-ID: <200202020110.g121AVM01924@localhost.localdomain> Is there anyone I can hook up with at installfest who knows WINE? -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From josh at greentechnologist.org Sat Feb 2 01:18:30 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: <200202012252.g11Mq8M01414@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > Let me advocate for the Linux virgins. You just made me do a flashback to Rocky Horror. ;-) "Let's hear it for all those _virgins_ out there. We're gonna pop your cherries good tonight." (or when I first went it was Ring Around the Virgins sung to Ring around the Rosie) Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8W4vLfexLsowstzcRAtBWAJ9n+DauGzu5N+kD23C+Z9egrP0t1gCePIoG hw2LM8OOLJQL/zrTS+c46sE= =AF3g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tanner at real-time.com Sat Feb 2 01:19:57 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] ftp.mn-linux.org offline 10pm 02/01/2002 Message-ID: <20020201175251.Z31368@real-time.com> Going to take ftp.mn-linux.org offline at 10pm CST on 02/01/2002 to prep it for the installfest tomorrorw. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com Sat Feb 2 01:35:05 2002 From: mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com (Michael J Flaherty) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Need help with little SCSI card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2/1/02 6:10 PM, Jon Schewe at jpschewe@mtu.net wrote: > Michael J Flaherty writes: > >> The "hardware browser" identifies the card correctly but it is not properly >> configured, as far as I can tell. I am positive that there are no IRQ or I/O >> conflicts. > > Upon what are you basing this statement? Did you actually jumper the card and > make sure that those are valid? I *was* basing it on the fact the hardware was working and conflict free under windows. Not so with Linux though. In addition to video and usb on the motherboard, I have the following ISA cards: 1 is a PnP Compu-shack NIC, IRQ 11, jumperable 1 is a non-PnP Sound Blaster 16, IRQ 5, jumperable 1 is the Adaptec 1502AV SCSI adapter that won't work, IRQ 10, no jumpers to change on the card Entering more /proc/interrupts with the SCSI card removed yields the following: CPU0 0: 20428 XT-PIC timer 1: 109 " keyboard 2: 0 " cascade 5: 3316 " Soundblaster 8: 1 " rtc 10: 0 " usb-uhci 11: 10 " NE2000 12: 24 " PS/2 Mouse 14: 4815 " ide 0 15: 0 " ide 1 NMI: 0 ERR: 0 Linux assigns IRQ 10 to the usb host controller on the motherboard which creates a conflict with the SCSI adapter. Installing the SCSI adapter and re-starting inspires the kernel to assign the usb IRQ 9 and to assign IRQ 10 to my ethernet card, putting *it* into conflict with the SCSI card and causing eth0 to fail. Under 98SE, the usb, SCSI card, and network card were IRQ 9,10, and 11 respectively. I've disabled PnP in BIOS to no avail. I need to figure out how to get the kernel to assign IRQ 9 (or 8 or 7, anything but 10...) to the usb without having it also change the network card/module to 10, thus creating a new conflict in its attempt to resolve the first conflict. > Since you state that you're eth0 stops > working, I'd bet that you do have a conflict. Yep. > After you fixthe conflict use > the following to get it work. > As a module: > insmod aha152x aha152x=0x, > In the kernel: > append ="aha152x=0x," > Thank you very much. That's exactly what I was looking for. But how will I resolve the IRQ allocation problem ? Thanks again Jon, MJF From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Sat Feb 2 02:16:57 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar In-Reply-To: <200202012252.g11Mq8M01414@localhost.localdomain> References: <02020106470000.09311@edith> <200202012252.g11Mq8M01414@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200202020736.g127aAb11107@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Friday 01 February 2002 4:52 pm, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > Hmm, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have more Linux venues. The more the better! Increase awareness and education. > Let me advocate for the Linux virgins. The TCLUG seems like it deals with > more technical aspects, and issues that really go over the head of the > individual user. You mean "individual newbie" :) > Having Linux seminars at PCUG would be a good idea for newbies and for > people thinking about making the jump from MicroCrap to Linux. Or the LUG > starts thinking about starting monthly meetings that are more heavily > advertised geared to Linux newbies and Linux virgins. The question must be brought: Why not invite those interested from PCUG to the Linux Install fest and give a seminar to those attendies. Or create a new meeting agenda for new users migrating from Windows. It will eventually be a necessary addition IMHO. I really do appreciate the efforts of Terry to introduce Linux to new users, but what's wrong with bringing these same people into the Linux fold by attending a TCLUG meeting. After all, TCLUG stands for Twin Cities Linux Users Group, newbie or guru. Linux is not all about Admin duties anymore. I would add that the TCLUG is not catagorized as a non-profit org. Unless this has changed without my knowledge. Officially there are no officers, treasurer, or president etc... I know some investigation had been done into this area, but I am unaware of any outcome. Fellow members; with the eventual additions to our LUG, I believe the official (legal) organization of this group is growing in importance. Anyone care to share their thoughts? Hell, my Toyota 4x4 club is a non-profit! > It might also be interesting to find funding from various foundations for > computer education. We might be able to ties this in with the recession. It > is one thing to expect the Linux experts to give their time to the Linux > community, but expansion needs finances. I have found the members of this LUG to be very helpful in all instances. I don't think anyone has a lot money to throw around, but I'm sure members would fund those needs as seen beneficial to the group. Besides my donation for pizza, I have not donated one dime to this LUG. I'm certainly willing to however. But no concerted call has been made. The more reason to organize as I see it. My .02 cents at 1:30 am...after a Morgan&Coke! Time to go nigh night... From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 2 02:51:23 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200201301823.g0UINXS18624@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, Jan 30, Jim Crumley wrote: > Anyway menu systems seem more useful for newbies (or at least icons with > balloon help describing name or function. There is a solid reason, based in human psychology, why menu driven systems are more useful for newbies. The human mind is wired to be able to recognize many more things than it can directly recall. IIRC, research shows an approximately 8:1 ratio between recognition vs. recall capability -- people are typically able to recognize about eight times more "things" than they can directly recall. Real world examples of this phenomenon might be: having a word "on the tip of your tongue" (i.e. if someone spoke the word, you would recognize it) or being able to drive somewhere yourself but being unable remember enough details to tell someone else how to drive there. Menu systems leverage the human mind's natural propensity for recognition. Menus make it possible for a novice user to perform useful work without first having to overcome the significant learning curve imposed by the necessity to memorize a bunch of commands or keystrokes. On the other hand, expert users generally will get sick of "row, row, row your mouse" menu navigation and will want to have keystroke shortcuts. IMHO, a good user interface should provide for both novice and expert users. Joel From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Feb 2 03:05:39 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number (with attachments) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > Ok, definately post the first 512 bytes of /dev/hda and hda1. Also, now > that I'm thinking furtuer, is /dev/hda1 really at the start of the drive > or is it insanely far up the drive? I have posted the sections as you requested and also the relevant portions of my dmesg. Per Mike's advice, I looked in /proc/ide and found what I would consider to be normal (looking at my other boxen, anywya). Under the /proc/ide I've got a bunch of symlinks into ide0 and ide1 directories with all my drive geometries and stuff. Nothing too impressive, but if anyone would like to see that I can post it. hda1 starts at cylinder 1. -Brian ----------------------------------------------------- posted dmesg: PIIX4: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 09 PIIX4: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later ide0: BM-DMA at 0xe000-0xe007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio ide1: BM-DMA at 0xe008-0xe00f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA hda: IC35L040AVER07-0, ATA DISK drive hdc: DVDROM 10X, ATAPI CDROM drive hdd: ATAPI 40X CDROM, ATAPI CDROM drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 hda: IC35L040AVER07-0, 32253MB w/1916kB Cache, CHS=4111/255/63, UDMA hdc: ATAPI DVD-ROM drive, 512kB Cache Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.11 hdd: ATAPI 40X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hda.out Type: application/octet-stream Size: 512 bytes Desc: Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020202/587b46cc/hda.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hda1.out Type: application/octet-stream Size: 512 bytes Desc: Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020202/587b46cc/hda1.obj From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 2 03:08:03 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A formal study of the Open Source community Message-ID: The Boston Consulting Group (BCG), in cooperation with the Open Source Development Network (OSDN) recently presented preliminary results from an interesting study on open-source software developers ("hackers"). The preliminary results of the BCG/OSDN survey reveal that: o Participants note extremely high levels of creativity in their projects. o Having fun, enhancing skills, access to source code, and user needs drive contributions to the Open Source community. Defeating proprietary software companies is not a major motivator. o The Open Source community is truly global in composition, with respondents coming from 35 countries. o Most participants dedicated at least 10 hours per week in their shared programming efforts. o Contrary to popular belief about hackers, the open source community is mostly comprised of highly skilled IT professionals who have on average over 10 years of programming experience. For details (sites will be updated as further results develop) ... http://www.bcg.com/opensource/ http://www.osdn.com/bcg/ Joel From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 2 03:39:19 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200201310124.g0V1OkS25040@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: (just catching up with last week's mailing list traffic ...) On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 Ben Stallings wrote: > So why is it, exactly, that the KDE archiver program isn't named archiver? > Did its programmers start calling it "ark" to save the trouble of pronouncing > two extra syllables, or did an early release allow only two of each kind of > file? (I suppose I could write to the authors, but asking in public is more > fun. ;-) --Ben Dude! It's got a "k" in it! From jack at jacku.com Sat Feb 2 08:59:38 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Users SIG (Was:Install Fest: Linux Seminar) In-Reply-To: <200202020736.g127aAb11107@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200202012252.g11Mq8M01414@localhost.localdomain> <200202020736.g127aAb11107@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> On Friday 01 February 2002 13:35, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Friday 01 February 2002 4:52 pm, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > The question must be brought: Why not invite those interested from PCUG to > the Linux Install fest and give a seminar to those attendies. Or create a > new meeting agenda for new users migrating from Windows. It will > eventually be a necessary addition IMHO. I really do appreciate the > efforts of Terry to introduce Linux to new users, but what's wrong with > bringing these same people into the Linux fold by attending a TCLUG > meeting. After all, TCLUG stands for Twin Cities Linux Users Group, newbie > or guru. Linux is not all about Admin duties anymore. A couple of things: An invitation to the installfest was extended to those who attended the TCPC meeting on Jan. 9th. (Note: The following is my own opinion. Terry, Clay - Shoot it down if I've ventured into areas I shouldn't.) Maybe what we need is a New Users SIG for TCLUG. Why not make that a joint effort with TCPC. It solves two of the most daunting tasks for any new SIG having a place and time to meet. I've committed to Terry to be available for most of the TCPC meetings when no one else has something they would like to present. As such I will volunteer to be the TCLUG's "SIG Leader" for the New Users SIG. The TCLUG general meetings (1st Saturday) can remain geared to more experienced users and more techinical topics. The New Users SIG/TCPC Linux on Saturday meeting (2nd Saturday) can be geared to less experienced users and general Linux advocacy to the non-Linux using community. How's that sound? -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From houle at citilink.com Sat Feb 2 09:32:23 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar(Apology & Please disregard) 2/2/02 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My sincere apologies for this message getting to the list. It was not meant for that and please delete and disregard. terry houle President TC/PC > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Houle [mailto:houle@citilink.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 7:53 AM > To: Terry Houle; Steve Beers; Ross Held; Mary Vatne; Lynn True; Luann > Veness; Leroy Smithrud; Keith Aleshire; Kathy Marjanen; John Wahl; John > Bald; Frank Silvis; Don Thompson; Joseph Ferens; Bill Stephens; Curtiss > Trout; Dale Strand; George Coklas; Lee Behrens; Mark Theiste; Stephen > Kuhlmey > Subject: FW: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar > > > This will be one of several threads I will send out on our Linux on > Saturday. THis one started on the LUG mail list regarding having more > > terry@tcpc.com > http://www.tcpc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob W. Anderson > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:39 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Install Fest: Linux Seminar > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 06:47:00 -0600, you wrote: > > > > >Or some people interested in Linux "could" go to a Linux User > > Group meeting > > >for Linux content? The TCLUG is probably a good place to have > From jim at herrick.net Sat Feb 2 10:02:35 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing RH 7.2 References: Message-ID: <00de01c1ac00$9845c010$d329a541@flanders> Switch to the console (TTY) where status is being logged to the screen. Should be --, or . The last messsage on that screen should point you in the right direction. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Houle" To: "TCLUG Mail List" Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Installing RH 7.2 > In trying to install Red Hat 7.2 I get to the end and it is loading and then > gets "stuck" at the Gnome splash screen and stays on "panel". Before it > would get past that but it brought up Nautilus and there was no panel at the > bottom of the screen. > Anyone got any simple ideas? I don't want to have to haul it to the > Installfest tomorrow if I can fix it simply. I have reloaded several times > and essentially the same problem. > > > TIA > > Terry Houle > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Feb 2 10:04:42 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wine In-Reply-To: <200202020110.g121AVM01924@localhost.localdomain> References: <200202020110.g121AVM01924@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <02020209365300.27273@edith> I know something about wine, enough to be dangerous. I compile a nigtly build against CVS and play around with it some. I have installed a few minor apps as well, and have them working well. Kelly On Friday 01 February 2002 19:10, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > Is there anyone I can hook up with at installfest who knows WINE? From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Sat Feb 2 11:08:30 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Users SIG (Was:Install Fest: Linux Seminar) In-Reply-To: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> References: <200202020736.g127aAb11107@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <02020208512800.00760@geezer> Message-ID: <200202021645.g12GjNb01546@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Saturday 02 February 2002 8:51 am, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > Maybe what we need is a New Users SIG for TCLUG. Why not make that a joint > effort with TCPC. It solves two of the most daunting tasks for any new SIG > having a place and time to meet. I've committed to Terry to be available > for most of the TCPC meetings when no one else has something they would > like to present. As such I will volunteer to be the TCLUG's "SIG Leader" > for the New Users SIG. The TCLUG general meetings (1st Saturday) can remain > geared to more experienced users and more techinical topics. The New Users > SIG/TCPC Linux on Saturday meeting (2nd Saturday) can be geared to less > experienced users and general Linux advocacy to the non-Linux using > community. > > How's that sound? Sounds perfect. I would also like volunteer my time and resources where needed. Lead on Jack... From bradyh at bitstream.net Sat Feb 2 11:37:10 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wine In-Reply-To: <02020209365300.27273@edith> References: <200202020110.g121AVM01924@localhost.localdomain> <02020209365300.27273@edith> Message-ID: <1012670536.1893.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry to hijack this thread but do you have any idea why I'd get this when I run winesetup: /usr/bin/winesetup: line 152: 21279 Bus error (core dumped) $argv0_dir/winesetuptk I couldn't find anybody else who had this problem but I've had it happen on two different machines now. Thanks, Brady > I know something about wine, enough to be dangerous. I compile a nigtly > build against CVS and play around with it some. I have installed a few minor > apps as well, and have them working well. > > Kelly > > On Friday 01 February 2002 19:10, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > > Is there anyone I can hook up with at installfest who knows WINE? > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From churchid at visi.com Sat Feb 2 11:45:51 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's already been pointed out that it is questionable whether this is legal under your acceptable use contract with the cable modem service provider, so I won't beat that dead horse. I will assume that you have some sort of cable modem/router combo that performs NAT (network address tranlation) from a single address (that of the router itself, provided by your service provider via DHCP) to an internal private network, such as 10.0.0.0/8, which could have many computers on it. To make your DNS server available to the world, you need to set up the NAT tables to send port 53 udp & tcp packets to your DNS server at its internal address, e.g. 10.0.0.2. Then you will also need to set up NAT so that port 80 tcp is sent to your web server (and port 443 tcp if you want to serve up secure pages). I don't think you could have multiple addressable web servers available via ordinary NAT. To do that, you would have to have some stateful packet inspecting stuff going on that understood the http protocol and could check the url requested. Such software probably exists somewhere, but I doubt there's much available that would be packaged in a format that someone who doesn't know what they're doing could deal with. However, if all you want to do is make your personal homepage available to the Internet, forget about all this DNS stuff. Use NAT to route port 80 tcp to your web server, and access it via whatever ip you get on your cable modem. If you've registered a domain name, you could even have www.mydomain.net resolve to this ip address. Of course, you would have to use a registrar that provides DNS to you, as someone else has already mentioned in this thread. In any case, don't turn your cable modem off for more than a few minutes at a time (i.e. long enough to reset it when needed), and you aren't likely to lose your address, since DHCP should let you keep it as long as you keep renewing your license. > I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run > a DNS server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from > the DNS of my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In > other words, how can I directly host websites on my machines > which will be contactable from outside? > > Regards From tanner at real-time.com Sat Feb 2 13:38:26 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c In-Reply-To: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost>; from mglaser@umn.edu on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 11:56:21AM -0600 References: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> Message-ID: <20020115201702.Z21131@real-time.com> Quoting Michael Glaser (mglaser@umn.edu): > Has anyone done it? If so, where can I find the software to install it? I have > heard of Yellow Dog Linux, but it looks like it does not run on this model. > > I have access to an Apple PowerBook 1400c laptop that currently has Mac OS 9 > on > it. It is very slow. I am unfamiliar with Mac anything and would much rather have > Linux on it. What are my options? http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ I have the ydl-2.1 cds, I'd be happy to burn a copy or put the .iso images on ftp.mn-linux.org. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Feb 2 14:45:18 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c In-Reply-To: <20020115201702.Z21131@real-time.com> References: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> <20020115201702.Z21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020202200807.E56491776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Tuesday 15 January 2002 08:17 pm, you wrote: > Quoting Michael Glaser (mglaser@umn.edu): > > Has anyone done it? If so, where can I find the software to install it? I > > have heard of Yellow Dog Linux, but it looks like it does not run on this > > model. > > > > I have access to an Apple PowerBook 1400c laptop that currently has Mac > > OS 9 on > > it. It is very slow. I am unfamiliar with Mac anything and would much > > rather have Linux on it. What are my options? > > http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ > > I have the ydl-2.1 cds, I'd be happy to burn a copy or put the .iso images > on ftp.mn-linux.org. FWIW, although I'm not a Mac person, it would seem to me like making .iso images available locally would be a good thing. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From sos at zjod.net Sat Feb 2 14:56:07 2002 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quick question In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Nemchenko" at Jan 16, 2002 03:13:43 PM Message-ID: <200201162145.g0GLjq731565@zjod.net> Stick the invocation in /etc/rc.d/rc.local at the bottom. Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > > There is an application that I want to start every time that the system is > rebooted, what would be the best way to launch that application? > > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From spencer at autonomous.tv Sat Feb 2 20:10:18 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Missing Box In-Reply-To: <35164.162.96.165.147.1012538814.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <20020131175537.D10908@real-time.com> <35164.162.96.165.147.1012538814.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20020203012808.GA28304@Mail> Hello Luggers, My name is Spencer. I lost a box at the Installfest today. It had an AAA logo on the front and a protruding CD-RW. I am offering a reward for its safe return. advTHANKSance -- Spencer Butler Twin Cities Open Systems spencer@tcopensys.org | Open Source Solutions http://tcopensys.org | Every Day Solutions Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020202/fa473f6c/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Sat Feb 2 22:35:07 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test Program Message-ID: Is there some kind of test program out there where it will just run and kind of put a system thru its paces for any problems? Terry Houle From drew at usfamily.net Sat Feb 2 22:43:25 2002 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? References: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C4724E5.254CC75F@usfamily.net> Well it depends, if you need computer stuff then it is worth going to. If you dont need anything and just want to browse then it gets kind of boring. Drew Nate Straz wrote: > I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this > weekend. Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth > going? > > I've been to some shows in the past, but I don't find their $8 admission > charge worth the show. Compared to online prices, I don't see the > point. > > What does everyone else think? Should I just find a good online shop or > is it worth driving to Shakopee this weekend to find some deals? > > Nate > > P.S. I'm shopping for storage at the moment, probably a few IDE drives > and an extra controller. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Sat Feb 2 22:44:29 2002 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? References: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <00fe01c19f8c$567ec170$0238dccc@hutchtel.net> I have been to a couple of those. I don't think you will save a great deal of money with new prices the way they are, but they are kind of fun ,with thousands of people running about. I prefer on line purchases. Just be sure to buy from someone who has a store front you can contact if you have troubles. . Raymond ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Straz" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? > I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this > weekend. Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth > going? > > I've been to some shows in the past, but I don't find their $8 admission > charge worth the show. Compared to online prices, I don't see the > point. > > What does everyone else think? Should I just find a good online shop or > is it worth driving to Shakopee this weekend to find some deals? > > Nate > > P.S. I'm shopping for storage at the moment, probably a few IDE drives > and an extra controller. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sun Feb 3 00:09:32 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wine In-Reply-To: <1012670536.1893.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200202020110.g121AVM01924@localhost.localdomain> <02020209365300.27273@edith> <1012670536.1893.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <02020223223000.31595@edith> I usually just run tools/wineinstall I have not tried the winesetup in awhile (just used it with the Code Weavers preview). I think it is a package that is not a part of the wine project proper, and has possibly fallen in to some state of non-repair. (Someone else please correct me if I am wrong here). Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 02 February 2002 11:22, you wrote: > Sorry to hijack this thread but do you have any idea why I'd get this > when I run winesetup: > > /usr/bin/winesetup: line 152: 21279 Bus error (core > dumped) $argv0_dir/winesetuptk > > I couldn't find anybody else who had this problem but I've had it happen > on two different machines now. > > Thanks, > Brady > > > I know something about wine, enough to be dangerous. I compile a nigtly > > build against CVS and play around with it some. I have installed a few > > minor apps as well, and have them working well. > > > > Kelly > > > > On Friday 01 February 2002 19:10, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > > > Is there anyone I can hook up with at installfest who knows WINE? > > From nate at techie.com Sun Feb 3 02:00:35 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <010b01c19f93$3a665b40$3028680a@tgt.com>; from veldy@veldy.net on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:12:02PM -0600 References: <010b01c19f93$3a665b40$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20020117154755.B7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:12:02PM -0600, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > Naw, the Internet can not be "read only". For every consumer, there must be > a provider. For every download, there is an upload somewhere else. The > internet IS synchrounous when taken as a whole. Hey, I just extended the > conservation of energy theory to the Internet! Counter example: multicast Nate From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 3 03:11:14 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <200201172124.QAA04141@mnmailhost> References: <200201161541.g0GFfLb04808@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201172124.QAA04141@mnmailhost> Message-ID: <1011306853.3202.8.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 15:24, Stephen R. Wilcoxon wrote: > On Tue 2002/01/15 21:41:10 CST, Rodd Ahrenstorff wr > ites: > > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 8:42 am, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > > > If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running > > > Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: > > > > > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.3 > > >1 .255.255 > > > > > > I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. > > > > > My response: > > > > These are two anonymous posts on one forum I visit. I also use roadrunner > > cable service, but I pay quite a bit for my connection and don't really > > appreciate people hosting sites in my neighborhood sucking up bandwidth. I > > might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! Hows that settle > > in your gullet? One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. > > Just wondering why you care? Running servers on RoadRunner are slow. > Upload speeds are throttled to 384k. I regularly get around 2000k download > - I probably wouldn't even notice if someone in my neighborhood was running > a "busy" server (eg using up his total 384k). I just performed a quick check -- I sent a large file to an ftp server -- and was getting upload speeds definitely in excess of 800K. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From tanner at real-time.com Sun Feb 3 03:48:15 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mysqldump mysqladmin In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 03:26:33PM -0600 References: <007d01c19f79$de1d35c0$0238dccc@hutchtel.net> Message-ID: <20020117164310.B21131@real-time.com> Quoting Nate Carlson (natecars@real-time.com): > Are you just hitting enter for the password? That should work fine.. bash# mysql -u root mysql mysql> UPDATE user SET Password=PASSWORD ('new_password') WHERE user='root'; mysql> FLUSH PRIVILEGES; From this point on, if you need to access MySQL as the MySQL root user, you will need to use mysql -u root -p and enter your new_password. Remember that MySQL user names have nothing to do with Unix user names (login names). -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Sun Feb 3 04:32:59 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? In-Reply-To: <1011305074.3258.2.camel@joelr.ellegon.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 04:04:34PM -0600 References: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <3C47311D.A0B049AE@iproduction.com> <1011305074.3258.2.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020117164601.C21131@real-time.com> Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > Realistically, if you're looking for IDE drives, you're probably not > going to find much more bang for the buck than, say, a 60GB EIDE > ULTRA-ATA/100 DESKSTAR 7200RPM 60GXP from IBM for $113.50, as a quick > search at ZDnet reveals. I heard on the radio a PIII upgrade for $179.99, you can get a brand new AMD Athalon from TC Computers for $156.99, so I personally think things are cheaper online, plus they are new. :-) AMD ATHLON XP 1600+ BOXED SOCKET A PROCESSOR http://www.tccomputers.com/apps/products/ppp.php?product_id=amdaxp1600 -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mcolivier at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 06:05:17 2002 From: mcolivier at earthlink.net (Marc Olivier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The TCLUG is probably a good place to have meetings with Linux as the topic. Message-ID: <000a01c1acbc$c3f7a360$0201a8c0@amdk6pc> I have to say that I've gotten plenty of assistance and patience from participants here at TCLUG both online and at the Installfests. There is a reasonable expectation that people will at least read up on what they're trying to do, before they ask questions. This is a good thing. It breeds competence, instead of dependency, which in the IT field, costs time and $$. >Or some people interested in Linux "could" go to a Linux User Group meeting >for Linux content? The TCLUG is probably a good place to have meetings with >Linux as the topic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020203/ca95fc4d/attachment.html From mcolivier at earthlink.net Sun Feb 3 06:27:19 2002 From: mcolivier at earthlink.net (Marc Olivier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! Message-ID: <001901c1acbe$ecc85440$0201a8c0@amdk6pc> Why not do some guerilla investigating, and get a rough estimate of how much cost is going into the current LAN, and what the savings would be under LINUX, and prepare a presentation for the local gov't body's board of administrators if you get any more grief about it from the LAN admin mgmt? ================================================= On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 10:50:11AM -0600, Glenn McDavid wrote: > Quite right. Furthermore, he may not be in a position to advocate > Linux there. I work for another local government and I know somebody > there who got reprimanded for advocating Linux and was forbidden from > giving a presentation about Linux at the Departmental education forum. > The LAN admin management will not discuss any alternative to Microsoft. > A few of us meet quietly sometimes and try to think of ways around this > formidable obstacle :-(> Hrm. Not to sow the seeds of discord, but how "forbidden" are we talking? If one were a big enough troublemaker, one might be able to turn this into a First Amendment issue. I wonder if PFAW or ACLU might not have something to say about it. I raise this issue because you say it's a government agency. They obviously do have some control over what people are allowed to bring to meetings, but it might be possible to show that if you define the issue enough, they have violated his right to express an opinion. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020203/2352c70c/attachment.htm From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 3 08:02:41 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest Message-ID: Well I thought the Installfest was great and all the helpful people. Someone greeted me in the parking lot and helped my in with my equipment. That is outstanding and quite a group. Also thought the church worked out very well as it was right inside the door like it was. As a Thank You to the church for hosting us I plan to send them a few bucks. If anyone else has a like mind the address again is: River Valley Church 14898 Energy Way Suite 200 Apple Valley, MN 55124 Terry Houle From florin at iucha.net Sun Feb 3 09:31:03 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test Program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020203152228.GA741@iucha.net> On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 10:11:20PM -0600, Terry Houle wrote: > Is there some kind of test program out there where it will just run and kind > of put a system thru its paces for any problems? memtest86 (http://www.teresaudio.com/memtest86/) Linux Test Project (http://ltp.sourceforge.net/) Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020203/2b0d1b79/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 3 10:05:04 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Users SIG (Was:Install Fest: Linux Seminar) In-Reply-To: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Some of my comments on this thread. Sorry probably getting a bit long but wanted to include. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jack Ungerleider > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:51 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] New Users SIG (Was:Install Fest: Linux Seminar) > > > On Friday 01 February 2002 13:35, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > On Friday 01 February 2002 4:52 pm, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > > > The question must be brought: Why not invite those interested > from PCUG to > > the Linux Install fest and give a seminar to those attendies. > Or create a > > new meeting agenda for new users migrating from Windows. It will > > eventually be a necessary addition IMHO. I really do appreciate > > the efforts of Terry to introduce Linux to new users, but what's > > wrong with bringing these same people into the Linux fold by > > attending a TCLUG meeting. After all, TCLUG stands for Twin > > Cities Linux Users > Group, newbie > > or guru. Linux is not all about Admin duties anymore. > > A couple of things: > > An invitation to the installfest was extended to those who > attended the TCPC > meeting on Jan. 9th. Comment: Not only was an invitation extended at the Jan 9 meeting but I put out an email to all ~400 members a day before the Installfest to remind them. Several TCPC people did show up and participate in the event. I have been posting both ways for these meetings, to TCPC members and TCLUG members. > (Note: The following is my own opinion. Terry, Clay - Shoot it > down if I've > ventured into areas I shouldn't.) > > Maybe what we need is a New Users SIG for TCLUG. Why not make > that a joint > effort with TCPC. It solves two of the most daunting tasks for > any new SIG > having a place and time to meet. I've committed to Terry to be > available for > most of the TCPC meetings when no one else has something they > would like to > present. As such I will volunteer to be the TCLUG's "SIG Leader" > for the New > Users SIG. The TCLUG general meetings (1st Saturday) can remain > geared to more experienced users and more technical topics. The > New Users SIG/TCPC Linux on Saturday meeting (2nd Saturday) can be > geared to less > experienced > users and general Linux advocacy to the non-Linux using community. > > How's that sound? > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack@jacku.com I am totally in agreement with Jack's comment above. That is the direction I have been working toward to further educate people about Linux (including myself). My direction has been to fill what I see as a void for TCLUG people who are lost like me and don't get enough out of any of the current activities (Installfest, General Meeting, mail list). I also wanted to provide TCPC people with more options for our Systems on Saturday meetings other than Windows. I wanted to possibly draw some more people into TCPC that were perhaps a little Geekier (hopefully no offense to anyone-meant as a compliment). Since I believe competition drives the business world I wanted to promote there are alternatives to Windows. My goal is to always have some open source or Linux articles in our future newsletters (Digital Viking). I have asked for articles form this group and they have responded and some of those will be in our March issue. Previously I have written some but am certainly no expert and did not get into any technical details. One of the big differences between TCLUG and TCPC is that we do have more of a structure being the oldest user group in the Twin Cities. We have an elected Board of Directors, officers and we charge($36) to be a formal member and receive our newsletter. Though meetings are free and open to the public. We are a Minnesota non profit corporation (but not a 501c3). Anyway with all that said I do agree with Jack and that is the direction I am headed. I will also present before the TCPC Board this month some type of relationship with TCLUG to try and formalize the concept a little more. It will intentionally be a bit fuzzy though. If Clay or any TCLUGers have any objections, or comments, I would certainly be glad to hear their thoughts as people weigh in on the subject. Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Security 7.0.3 iQA/AwUBPF1bOYhJzFXzRbVdEQK5uQCfbRnlDjAYECjxkdHRrGucZoiAX04AoLqh Sif3jMWS98Y1WQP3x2oEtHej =Mh/h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 3 10:06:27 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Give Lycoris Desktop/LX a try... In-Reply-To: <200201230557.g0N5v8b05815@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: I spend several hours at the Installfest with the help of some experts and still had trouble getting RH7.2 to run on a cheap box that I had built. I decided to give this a try and downloaded the file and put it on my box. Appears to be up and running ok with minimal effort as they state. Just a fyi that some may want to give it a try as Rodd suggests. terry houle > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Rodd Ahrenstorff > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 11:57 AM > To: tclug > Subject: [TCLUG] Give Lycoris Desktop/LX a try... > Lycoris (formerly Redmond Linux) published Desktop/LX release 44 just two > weeks ago. It's a really nice distro for complete newbies and ex-Windows > users. I've been running this distro for about 2 months with no major > problems. It has some nice features and only the necessary > applications to > get things done. I was able to upgrade online (cable modem) from > release 43 > to 44 using an Update Wizard without a single error. Check it out at > www.lycoris.com and the forums at www.linuxsoftworks.org . From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Sun Feb 3 10:35:17 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers Message-ID: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> I am looking for few volunteers to give a "Linux Installation" presentation at next month's installfest. I would like to have one of the more experienced members go through an install for the group on the overhead projectors. I'm like to have one session in the morning (11ish) any one in the afternoon (2ish). There will be overhead projectors available. Please let me know if you are interested. We also need a few volunteers to help run the "show". I won't be able to make it, so if you've been to a few of these already and would like to help out, let me know. This isn't really too difficult. Mainly answering questions and directing "first-timers" on how things work. The internet access will be rather limited, so if anyone has a multi-cd burner, please bring it. Thanks. -- Clay - From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 3 10:54:03 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020203163957.88C711776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sunday 03 February 2002 07:43 am, you wrote: > Well I thought the Installfest was great and all the helpful people. > Someone greeted me in the parking lot and helped my in with my equipment. > That is outstanding and quite a group. > Trying to explain Linux fandom to outsiders gets a bit . . . difficult. "Think if it as a religious cult, but without the koolaid," has some truth to it, but doesn't quite give the right impression. . . . -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 3 11:14:03 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> Message-ID: Wow. I just got this message from Clay and appears to of been sent on the 23rd. Must of been around the world a few times. Just a fyi and maybe problem with my provider. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Clay Fandre > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:55 AM > To: tclug-list > Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers > > > I am looking for few volunteers to give a "Linux Installation" > presentation at next month's installfest. I would like to have > > > > - > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From j at 4dvfx.com Sun Feb 3 11:30:43 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers References: Message-ID: <001b01c1acd8$06981c70$7e01a8c0@win2k001> I got it also. > Wow. I just got this message from Clay and appears to of been sent on the > 23rd. Must of been around the world a few times. > Just a fyi and maybe problem with my provider. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Clay Fandre > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:55 AM > > To: tclug-list > > Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers > > > > > > I am looking for few volunteers to give a "Linux Installation" > > presentation at next month's installfest. I would like to have > > > > > > > > - > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > > Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jacque at fruitioninc.com Sun Feb 3 14:40:09 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer meeting: January 24th Message-ID: Hi all- The next beer meeting will tomorrow at the Borialis Cafe in Dinkytown. 6pm-8pm. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting See you there! ~jacque From blutgens at sistina.com Sun Feb 3 15:38:04 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer meeting: January 24th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012771836.9931.0.camel@minime> On Wed, 2002-01-23 at 13:26, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > Hi all- > > The next beer meeting will tomorrow at the Borialis Cafe in Dinkytown. > 6pm-8pm. HAHAHA. > > Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting > > > See you there! > > > ~jacque > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020203/abeca07a/attachment.pgp From jacque at fruitioninc.com Sun Feb 3 18:46:22 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer meeting: January 24th Message-ID: Hi all- The next beer meeting will tomorrow at the Borialis Cafe in Dinkytown. 6pm-8pm. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting See you there! ~jacque _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sun Feb 3 22:37:02 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest Message-ID: We are missing a power supply for a Dell laptop and a ps/2 keyboard. If anyone knows where they are please write back off list. Someone borrowed the ps/2 keyboard and perhpas forgot to return it. I need a ps/2 kb so I would appreciate it back. As for the power supply, it was not borrowed as far as I know, and might have been left behind on accident or mixed with someone else's things. We can't do anything with the laptop until we get it back since the battery is dead. It is Lorry's main computer, and has important files for her job and schoolwork. We'd appreciate it if you make sure you didn't accidently end up with it. Thanks very much. Munir & Lorry From phil at rephil.org Mon Feb 4 01:19:31 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> References: <20020115082553.A9378@slava.net> <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020115230816.GA2826@rephil.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:36:51PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > The term "server" is ambiguous. I'm sure that they're not going to try > to prevent me from running, say, fetchmail. But an Apache server, > sure. I bet it's not, if you talk to their legal dept. I have a gut feeling that they mean "no incoming calls." I don't see fetchmail as a problem, but then I guess I don't see it as a server. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From phil at rephil.org Mon Feb 4 01:21:57 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quick question In-Reply-To: References: <3C45ED07.38BC32DD@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20020116232340.GA9671@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 04:56:40PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > The more robust method (and I think the preferred one in general) is to > create a start/stop script in /etc/init.d/. (I think RedHat uses > /etc/rc.d/init.d/) Not in 7.2. I'm a Debian guy stuck in RedHat though, so I don't know if that's recent or not. (Can't imagine...) -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From jeff at camacc.com Mon Feb 4 01:23:54 2002 From: jeff at camacc.com (Jeff Wright) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TUSL2 reboot issue Message-ID: Jay Did you ever find a solution to your reboot issue? I have a similar problem with Windows 2000 on a TUSL2 board. We have dozens of these in the field and a few of them are hanging on an automated reboot right at the point I would consider to be between "on the way down" and "on the way back up" (right around the time of "the beep"). Jeff Wright, Systems Engineer CAMACC Systems Incorporated http://www.camacc.com From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 02:21:00 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] YDL + heavy network load = eth0 flaking out Message-ID: <20020204020433.Z22954@real-time.com> Anyone heard of any problems with YDL on ppc under heavy load causing network problems? Specifically, eth0 being put into the down state? At first, I thought I might have had a compromised box, since in the middle of the night eth0 would just go to the down state. So, I pulled the Internet connection, setup a small LAN and sat at the console and ran lots of gzip programs. When the load hit 5, eth0 went to the down state. I ifconfig eth0 up and did the gzip test again. Same result. Reboot (fresh os!), replease the test, same result. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 4 02:56:32 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipop3sd In-Reply-To: <3C4F8B3A.894548EA@VISI.COM> References: <3C4F8B3A.894548EA@VISI.COM> Message-ID: <20020124124815.CF4D6C6BA7@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> > I am running Mandrake 8.1 with ipop3sd installed and the service is > enabled on demand. According to the Doc's from Mandrake all I should > have to do is edit the inetd.conf file and restart inetd. I belive that Mandrake uses xinetd by default. They both perform the same function, just have a different approach. To find out, take a look in the /etc/rc*.d directorys, and if you see something like S10inetd or S10xinetd then you should be able to tell. I think the easiest way to do that is ls /etc/rc*.d/S*inetd If you are running xinetd, take a look at the documentation (man pages) to see if you can figure it out. > Unfortunately inetd in not running or configured but appears to be > installed. As I am still learn Linux, I am not familiar with inetd. Any > help would be great! inetd and xinetd work as a superserver. That is, insetead of having the actual deamon (service) running all the time, (x)inetd listens instead, and when it gets a connection on a port, it spawns off the deamon required for it. This allows some security checks/logging and other bennifits (as well as some drawbacks in certain cases) -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- And do you think (fop that I am) that I could be the Scarlet Pumpernickel? From j at 4dvfx.com Mon Feb 4 07:06:27 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LILO config question Message-ID: <005901c1a4e7$e15af600$7e01a8c0@root> Hello, I'm fairly new to Linux, (and enjoying every moment) and I have a question about the /etc/lilo.conf file. I'm currently running RH 7.1 on an AthlonXP 1700+, and I've read recently and experienced the AGP bug (if it can be called that) when using non Pentium processors. Everyone is saying to give the argument ' mem=nopentium ' to the kernel at boot. My question is where in the lilo.conf file should this be placed exactly? Is there a specific place, or can it go anywhere? Thanks for the help Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/c432c4b7/attachment.html From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 08:19:35 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LILO config question In-Reply-To: <005901c1a4e7$e15af600$7e01a8c0@root> References: <005901c1a4e7$e15af600$7e01a8c0@root> Message-ID: <20020204135207.GA605@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:00:30AM -0600, Jeff Schmidt wrote: > Hello, > I'm fairly new to Linux, (and enjoying every moment) and I have a question about the /etc/lilo.conf file. I'm currently running RH 7.1 on an AthlonXP 1700+, and I've read recently and experienced the AGP bug (if it can be called that) when using non Pentium processors. Everyone is saying to give the argument ' mem=nopentium ' to the kernel at boot. My question is where in the lilo.conf file should this be placed exactly? Is there a specific place, or can it go anywhere? Thanks for the help Add that to the append="..." line. Separate with comma from the previous entry, if necessary. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/c9e0e7d8/attachment.pgp From owens at gradtech.com Mon Feb 4 09:10:06 2002 From: owens at gradtech.com (Dale Owens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and W2K Netlogon In-Reply-To: <00bc01c1ab68$084bd320$0b64a8c0@rickw2k> Message-ID: Make the logon script OS specific and add try net use z: \\servername\share /persistent:no to map the NT shares. Also make sure that your profiles are set up correctly. Dale Owens owens@gradtech.com -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Rick Phillips Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:33 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Samba and W2K Netlogon Does anyone have a suggestion on getting drives to map on a Win2K computer that is logging into a domain controlled by a Samba box? I have set up a test network with a Win98, Win2K and a RedHat 7.1 computer running Samba 2.2.2. I have successfully created a machine account for my W2K machine, and can log into the domain/computer with both my Win98 and Win2K computers. However, I can't seem to get a netlogon file to run on the Win2K machine, but can get it to work on the Win98 computer (i.e. map drives and set the time). I have created a directory /home/netlogon, and have put files called: logon.bat, logon.cmd, phillips.bat, and phillips.cmd in that share with 777 permissions. (I know that is not proper, but at least for testing, I know that I don't have a permission issue). Anyhow, the Win2K machine looks like it is running the scripts, but the drives do not get mapped. However, if I browse to that directory via samba, I am able to double-click on the file and the scripts run just fine. I have tried setting the logon script = to all of the above files, including %U.bat. Any ideas? FYI - There is a good article on this subject in the recent issue of Linux Magazine. Rick Phillips Churchill Capital / Churchill Industries (612) 673-6738 phillips@churchillnet.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at greentechnologist.org Mon Feb 4 09:48:33 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sigh, kernel patches Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm just having a moment of public angst. I've got a patch to the epat protocol of the paride subsystem that's been pending since 2.2.17ish. All this recent talk of Linus and the patch backlog just brought it back for me. This is my one and only patch to the kernel (my other contributions being some patches to the Slackware install scripts). Gah! And those didn't get in either. Sorry, I'm not bitter. Nope. Grr.. Anyhow, if you are interested the patch is at http://www.greentechnologist.org/linux/epatc7c8.patch. It enables the c7/c8 versions of the Shuttle Technologies EPAT chip to work. In practical terms this is stuff like the 2x parallel port superdisk drive. Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Xq5afexLsowstzcRAkDnAJ9aUyq4xIORU7qRHHSxmApPYqc1fgCaArk0 uderRCLMRLRpLOIeBYig5TM= =iGkT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 4 09:51:28 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE Message-ID: On list with the [OT] marker would be great. This is interesting stuff (at least to me). >>> hick0088@tc.umn.edu 01/23/02 09:31PM >>> Here's a question for the web gurus.. What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept an SSL certificate from a website that has been self-generated and not bought from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? Mozilla/Netscape will prompt you and ask if you still want to connect, but IE just decides to stop and prevents the page from loading (well, I most recently saw it on IE on MacOSX, but I think it happens on Windows boxes as well). Also, for folks at the U -- I've heard that the university has a program for getting discounted site certificates (not that they're all that expensive anyway, but I figure I may as well get it cheap if I can).. I'm afraid I don't even know where to begin looking to purchase a certificate. Anyone who knows, please e-mail me off-list.. Thanks.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I'm a nobody. Nobody is / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ perfect. Therefore I'm \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) perfect. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Feb 4 10:07:09 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] totally OT, but still interesting - Nixie clocks Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514CEC@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/nixiegallery.html Check these out. I want one. Does anyone know a good place in town to buy Nixie tubes? Ideally, I'd like to build a nixie alarm clock, with an atomic clock receiver in it. Where would I get such a receiver? Ummm, to keep this somewhat on topic, Gentoo Linux Rules! :) Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Feb 4 10:09:31 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TUSL2 reboot issue Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514CED@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I replaced the IBM hard drives with western digital, and the problem disappeared. It looks like the IBM drives do not play nicely with that board. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Wright [mailto:jeff@camacc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:09 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] TUSL2 reboot issue > > > Jay > > Did you ever find a solution to your reboot issue? I have a > similar problem > with Windows 2000 on a TUSL2 board. We have dozens of these > in the field and > a few of them are hanging on an automated reboot right at the > point I would > consider to be between "on the way down" and "on the way back > up" (right > around the time of "the beep"). > > Jeff Wright, Systems Engineer > CAMACC Systems Incorporated > http://www.camacc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 4 10:11:45 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Need help with little SCSI card Message-ID: Mike, The BIOS probably is handling IRQ->PCI slot mapping automatically, which is nice, but you may have to reserve the IRQ (10) by handling the mapping manually. You might get by easy though if you insert the SCSI card and tell the BIOS to reallocate the IRQs/redo the mapping, but this is pretty maniboard/BIOS dependent stuff. Share the BIOS menu details if you get stuck or find something confusing, and good luck to you. Troy >>> mikeflaherty@mn.rr.com 02/02/02 01:19AM >>> >But how will I resolve the IRQ allocation problem ? From troy.johnson at HEALTH.STATE.MN.US Mon Feb 4 10:24:36 2002 From: troy.johnson at HEALTH.STATE.MN.US (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback Message-ID: TCLUGers, I have a box that I use because I am too cheap to buy a DVD player. While that may change in the future, for now I get hours of enjoyment tinkering with it, but those hours do not come from a neverending supply, so I ask these questions. Is there a Linux distribution that is better suited/comes with DVD playback stuff, or is there an app that will do it for any disto? The box is: K6-2 450 384MB SDRAM 4GB HDD 16X DVDROM Voodoo3 3000 w/video out Is this box too weak for this task? If so, where is the weakest point, in your opinion? It may be just too weak because it does work under w98se and w2kp, but video is choppy (moreso under w2kp). Any advice for easy DVD playback (so my wife can use it too) would be appreciated. Thank you in advance, Troy From natecars at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 10:36:19 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept an SSL > certificate from a website that has been self-generated and not bought > from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? Mozilla/Netscape will prompt you and ask if > you still want to connect, but IE just decides to stop and prevents the > page from loading (well, I most recently saw it on IE on MacOSX, but I > think it happens on Windows boxes as well). When the verify box comes up, click View Certificate, the Install Certificate, next, next, finish, yes, ok, ok, yes. There's MS efficiency for you.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From wlayer at attbroadband.com Mon Feb 4 10:58:24 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> Message-ID: <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> A comment or two of my own. On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:48:27 -0600 "Terry Houle" wrote: > Anyway with all that said I do agree with Jack and that is the > direction I am headed. I will also present before the TCPC Board > this month some type of relationship with TCLUG to try and formalize > the concept a little more. It will intentionally be a bit fuzzy > though. If Clay or any TCLUGers have any objections, or comments, I > would certainly be glad to hear their thoughts as people weigh in on > the subject. I move that at this time, any futher actions be immediately halted, and an official 30-day comment period be opened up on the subject of future TCPC / TCLUG involvement. I would personally like to see the leadership weigh in on this issue. I would also like to see full corporate financial disclosure for the TCPC, among other things. I do not wish to see the TCLUG fall under external influence, or become absorbed or assimilated into any other group. I am dubious about the real costs & benefits for the TCLUG, and I would like to see some thoughtful analysis of potential scenarios before we tread on unfamiliar ground. Commenting, -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 4 11:00:19 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020204164702.87FC79060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> It will work, but video will be just as choppy as in windows. The weak spot is either video or CPU. To decode MPEGs of that size and quality requires a lot of overhead, which is why many video cards now have mpeg decoders on them. I am guessing that your card does not have that (and if it did, I dont know what sort of linux support you would get out of it) and thus most of the processing falls to the CPU. I have an Athlon XP 1800+ and dvd is choppy with a 16M TNT2 card. A good pice of easy to use DVD software is Ogle- as far as I know it is the only one that support menus. Jay On Monday 04 February 2002 10:11 am, you wrote: > TCLUGers, > > I have a box that I use because I am > too cheap to buy a DVD player. While > that may change in the future, for now > I get hours of enjoyment tinkering with > it, but those hours do not come from a > neverending supply, so I ask these > questions. > > Is there a Linux distribution that is better > suited/comes with DVD playback stuff, > or is there an app that will do it for any > disto? > > The box is: > K6-2 450 > 384MB SDRAM > 4GB HDD > 16X DVDROM > Voodoo3 3000 w/video out > > Is this box too weak for this task? > If so, where is the weakest point, in your > opinion? > > It may be just too weak because it > does work under w98se and w2kp, > but video is choppy (moreso under > w2kp). > > Any advice for easy DVD playback > (so my wife can use it too) would be > appreciated. > > Thank you in advance, > > Troy > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 11:02:19 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020204165320.GB605@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:11:36AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > TCLUGers, > > I have a box that I use because I am > too cheap to buy a DVD player. While > that may change in the future, for now > I get hours of enjoyment tinkering with > it, but those hours do not come from a > neverending supply, so I ask these > questions. > > Is there a Linux distribution that is better > suited/comes with DVD playback stuff, > or is there an app that will do it for any > disto? > > The box is: > K6-2 450 > 384MB SDRAM > 4GB HDD > 16X DVDROM > Voodoo3 3000 w/video out > > Is this box too weak for this task? Yes. (I have a similar machine with K6-III/500 MHz). > If so, where is the weakest point, in your > opinion? CPU and/or video drivers. The same machine plays DVD's just fine in windows with any ATI board and ATI DVD player (ATI boards have hardware accelerated mpeg decoding - too bad they don't make that available on Linux), but for pure software decoding, you need a 700 MHz class machine. Or a supported hardware decoding (that is an additional pci board that you route your video signal thru and it replaces a big blue rectangle on the screen with the movie - unfortunately, it alters the overall image quality : the ATI decoder has much better contrast and colors than the Creative DXR3 card I have). > It may be just too weak because it > does work under w98se and w2kp, > but video is choppy (moreso under > w2kp). > > Any advice for easy DVD playback > (so my wife can use it too) would be > appreciated. Upgrade mobo/cpu. I just paid $160 at newegg.com for a Duron 1.2 GHz / ECS K7S5A (it works with PC100 RAM). florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/73b539ac/attachment.pgp From wlayer at attbroadband.com Mon Feb 4 11:03:43 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020204105310.204b1c5b.wlayer@attbroadband.com> On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 22:19:45 -0600 Munir Nassar wrote: > We are missing a power supply for a Dell laptop and a ps/2 keyboard. If > anyone knows where they are please write back off list. Is that the keyboard with some of it's keys pastel colored? I saw an individual pick it up and walk away with it; I don't know them by name, but I might recognize a face.... Not accusing, -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Feb 4 11:16:17 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback In-Reply-To: Message-ID: | The box is: | K6-2 450 | 384MB SDRAM | 4GB HDD | 16X DVDROM | Voodoo3 3000 w/video out AGP or PCI? Going by the WinDVD info, you meet the requirments for software DVD playback: a K6-2 450. Give that this is the bare minimum, I wouldn't expect playback to be perfect. As your running windows, have you tried changing your shell? It won't be as convient, but you can change your shell from explorer.exe to command.com. Drop exploer out of the picture and you might free up your CPU to do other things. (win9x: c:\windows\system.ini, change shell, reboot. WinNT and Win2k require registry hacks, check out http://litestep.net/docs/install.php for more info.) Anyway, I use ogle myself as it actually supports DVD menus. I don't think the quality is as good as WinDVD, but it isn't bad. xine isn't bad, I think they have a DVD plugin with menu support now but I haven't checked it out. I use Debian Woody myself, and installing Ogle is easy enough: apt-get install ogle-mmx It should include a script in /usr/share/doc/ogle-xmms/examples (or wherever it installs the docs) that will download/install libdvdcss, which you need for CSS DVD playback. No clue how RedHat/SuSE/Mandrake/other deal with DVD. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 4 11:17:56 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020204170647.987449060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> > I do not wish to see the TCLUG fall under external influence, or become > absorbed or assimilated into any other group. I am dubious about the real > costs & benefits for the TCLUG, and I would like to see some thoughtful > analysis of potential scenarios before we tread on unfamiliar ground. I agree. The TCLUG seems to stand on its own 2 feet just fine, and the reasoning for a "relationship" with TCPC is somewhat unclear. I think it would be great to have an unformal relationship: the casual mixing of information and members, but they should remain two seperate entities. Jay From troy.johnson at HEALTH.STATE.MN.US Mon Feb 4 11:19:42 2002 From: troy.johnson at HEALTH.STATE.MN.US (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE Message-ID: Does this remind anyone else of NIN's version of 'Get Down, Make Love'? Sorry... >>> natecars@real-time.com 01/24/02 12:20PM >>> >When the verify box comes up, click View Certificate, the Install >Certificate, next, next, finish, yes, ok, ok, yes. From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Feb 4 11:39:13 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514CF6@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> If you have choppy video, make sure your dvd-rom has DMA enabled. I installed one last night, and the video was very choppy. It turns out that it was using PIO instead of DMA. After getting DMA to work on it, it works flawlessly, completely smooth. I use ogle under gentoo: emerge media-video/ogle It installs the decss libs and everything. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: florin@iucha.net [mailto:florin@iucha.net] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:53 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback > > > On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:11:36AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > TCLUGers, > > > > I have a box that I use because I am > > too cheap to buy a DVD player. While > > that may change in the future, for now > > I get hours of enjoyment tinkering with > > it, but those hours do not come from a > > neverending supply, so I ask these > > questions. > > > > Is there a Linux distribution that is better > > suited/comes with DVD playback stuff, > > or is there an app that will do it for any > > disto? > > > > The box is: > > K6-2 450 > > 384MB SDRAM > > 4GB HDD > > 16X DVDROM > > Voodoo3 3000 w/video out > > > > Is this box too weak for this task? > > Yes. (I have a similar machine with K6-III/500 MHz). > > > If so, where is the weakest point, in your > > opinion? > > CPU and/or video drivers. > > The same machine plays DVD's just fine in windows with any > ATI board and ATI DVD player (ATI boards have hardware > accelerated mpeg decoding - too bad they don't make that > available on Linux), but for pure software decoding, > you need a 700 MHz class machine. Or a supported hardware > decoding (that is an additional pci board that you route > your video signal thru and it replaces a big blue rectangle > on the screen with the movie - unfortunately, it alters the > overall image quality : the ATI decoder has much better > contrast and colors than the Creative DXR3 card I have). > > > It may be just too weak because it > > does work under w98se and w2kp, > > but video is choppy (moreso under > > w2kp). > > > > Any advice for easy DVD playback > > (so my wife can use it too) would be > > appreciated. > > Upgrade mobo/cpu. I just paid $160 at newegg.com for a > Duron 1.2 GHz / ECS K7S5A (it works with PC100 RAM). > > florin > > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Mon Feb 4 11:40:48 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com>; from wlayer@attbroadband.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:35:32AM -0600 References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:35:32AM -0600, Bill Layer wrote: > > I do not wish to see the TCLUG fall under external influence, or become > absorbed or assimilated into any other group. I am dubious about the real > costs & benefits for the TCLUG, and I would like to see some thoughtful > analysis of potential scenarios before we tread on unfamiliar ground. > I agree. Any TCPC members who want to "join" (whatever that means) the LUG can do so, and likewise I presume. No need to make any sort of formal arrangement between the two. -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From wlayer at attbroadband.com Mon Feb 4 11:58:23 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Installfest rules & procedures Message-ID: <20020204114222.3c99ac80.wlayer@attbroadband.com> The fest on Saturday was excellent, but anyone who was there in the first hour knows that is was pretty much chaos & anarchy till a few things got under control. I have a suggestion to make things work more easily in the future... Proposed: That at a TCLUG installfest, no machine is allowed to join the network until it has been passed by a TCLUG network admin/helper. It will be the job of the admin to make certain that the machine is not configured in such a way as to break the network with it's IP services. The best example of this, are machines running rogue DHCPDs, which as we all know now from SEVERAL fests, has a way of totally screwing everything up for everyone else. It's a lot easier to pass the machine first, then to go digging later for the culprit. Eh? -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Mon Feb 4 12:11:13 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless/Microwave (OT) Message-ID: <035e01c1a508$c3facec0$47646496@dart> The company I work for is looking at a lease on a second building about 1/2 mile away in line of site from our current building. Anybody out there have any contacts/experience with Microwave/Wireless for phone/LAN/mux? We currently use fiber to another building that is only about 1/8 mile away, but that would be cost prohibitive for this building. We are also looking at fractional T1, Frame Relay, etc. Any (constructive) input would be welcome. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 12:14:20 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020204175941.GC605@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:35:32AM -0600, Bill Layer wrote: > A comment or two of my own. > > On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:48:27 -0600 > "Terry Houle" wrote: > > > Anyway with all that said I do agree with Jack and that is the > > direction I am headed. I will also present before the TCPC Board > > this month some type of relationship with TCLUG to try and formalize > > the concept a little more. It will intentionally be a bit fuzzy > > though. If Clay or any TCLUGers have any objections, or comments, I > > would certainly be glad to hear their thoughts as people weigh in on > > the subject. > > I move that at this time, any futher actions be immediately halted, and an > official 30-day comment period be opened up on the subject of future TCPC > / TCLUG involvement. I would personally like to see the leadership weigh > in on this issue. I would also like to see full corporate financial > disclosure for the TCPC, among other things. Leadership? Corporate financial disclosure? Bill? BILL? > I do not wish to see the TCLUG fall under external influence, or become > absorbed or assimilated into any other group. I am dubious about the real > costs & benefits for the TCLUG, and I would like to see some thoughtful > analysis of potential scenarios before we tread on unfamiliar ground. What kind of unapropriate influence? What cost for TCLUG? If somebody asks for help, you give it, or flame the guy extra krispy... What's gonna change? florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/d4f0f985/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 4 12:16:03 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <20020204105310.204b1c5b.wlayer@attbroadband.com> References: <20020204105310.204b1c5b.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <46282.198.74.20.77.1012845632.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Is that the keyboard with some of it's keys pastel colored? yes > I saw an > individual pick it up and walk away with it; I don't know them by name, > but I might recognize a face.... while i was doing the redhat presentation someone supposedly borrowed it, if you(not you bill, but the other readers) borrowed a keyboard at the installfest here is a reminder: you borrowed someone elses keyboard, its a cheapass 5 buck keyboard with a bad right arrow key. could you please return it. -munir From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 4 12:18:09 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20020204180335.GB14373@wookimus.net> I would have to agree with Bill and John. The TCLUG has been established for quite some time. Perhaps it's not as old as TCPC, but we have our own following, our own core group. To be absorbed into another, larger group would introduce a thread of politics I'd rather avoid. A formal relationship need not be drawn either, but a general invitation and offer to be of assistance to those of the TCPC group is certainly extended. If we are deficient in our reception toward newbies, then that should be addressed within the group. The newbie SIG idea is a nice one. I admit that I give mixed reactions toward users in general, depending upon context and environment. I'm a perfectly helpful and amiable tutor when the time is right and the student is genuine, but I have been known to be a troll when the time is wrong or the "student" simply wants free technical support. If we go ahead with a newbie SIG, I'd be willing to help out. Anyway, back to the grind. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/48ad75eb/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 4 12:37:06 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1012846928.1408.3.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 11:27, John J. Trammell wrote: > I agree. Any TCPC members who want to "join" (whatever that means) > the LUG can do so, and likewise I presume. No need to make any sort > of formal arrangement between the two. I move that we shut down this crappy LUG, uninstall linux on all our servers right now, sever all ties with each other and join TCPC and show them and ourselves the true value of using Microsoft (TM) products. Cause we all know that is the future. YHBT HAND :-) On a more serious side: or we could stop worrying about it cause the LUG's not going anywhere without a popular consensus. There really ISN'T any "leadership" we're more like a semi-organized mob lead by whom-ever-suggests-something-cool-first. Ask Clay I'm sure he'll not disagree with that sentiment too much. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Feb 4 13:04:43 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <46282.198.74.20.77.1012845632.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 nassarmu@redconcepts.net wrote: > you borrowed someone elses keyboard, its a cheapass 5 buck keyboard with > a bad right arrow key. could you please return it. I just have to ask... wouldn't it cost you more at this point to get it back than to just buy a new one? Unless it has some sentimental value or you're just doing it for the principle of the thing it seems like a moot point to me. -Brian From josh at greentechnologist.org Mon Feb 4 13:06:28 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Installfest rules & procedures In-Reply-To: <20020204114222.3c99ac80.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I didn't get there in time to actually plug anything in but I was left wondering how often there are hostile computers at the InstallFests? We all know that there are plenty of distrovution versions that have mandatory patch lists. How often does say, someone bring their computer and behind everyone's back run something hostile to either catch passwords in eth traffic or just try to root someone's box? (mynde you, I'm paranoid when it comes to this sort of thing) Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Bill Layer wrote: > The fest on Saturday was excellent, but anyone who was there in the first > hour knows that is was pretty much chaos & anarchy till a few things got > under control. I have a suggestion to make things work more easily in the > future... > > Proposed: That at a TCLUG installfest, no machine is allowed to join the > network until it has been passed by a TCLUG network admin/helper. It will > be the job of the admin to make certain that the machine is not configured > in such a way as to break the network with it's IP services. The best > example of this, are machines running rogue DHCPDs, which as we all know > now from SEVERAL fests, has a way of totally screwing everything up for > everyone else. > > It's a lot easier to pass the machine first, then to go digging later for > the culprit. Eh? > > -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- > > .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Xtq/fexLsowstzcRAnxBAJ9cypyxRWduYJbycQa3+rc0+33e/QCfTfT3 gP0riYM4EsbLuH5aR+wQ1Mk= =giNs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cgahlon at citilink.com Mon Feb 4 13:08:28 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point References: Message-ID: <3C5EDAC6.FB085593@citilink.com> Nate Carlson wrote: > > On 31 Jan 2002, Dave Royer wrote: > > I just got the laterst edition of "Linux Journal" in the mail and the > > cover story is about setting up your own wireless network at home. > > > > My question is, has anyone set up a base station using one of the > > Orinoco cards? > > I've used Orinoco cards under Linux; haven't done base station mode, > though. (IIRC, they can't become a true base station, just ad-hoc mode..) This is true. I tried to setup a linux wireless gateway with Orinoco cards at work about 6 months ago and read somewhere (wireless howto?) there is a special code passed to the Orinoco card's when plugged into a base-station that tells them to allow 11Mbps. Under linux all you'll get out of the Orinoco cards is the ad-hoc 3?Mbps. Christopher Gahlon From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Mon Feb 4 13:21:30 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Monday 04 February 2002 11:27 am, John J. Trammell wrote: > I agree. Any TCPC members who want to "join" (whatever that means) > the LUG can do so, and likewise I presume. No need to make any sort > of formal arrangement between the two. What would be the negative aspects of a formal arrangment between TCPC and TCLUG? What benefits could such an arrangement bring to both communities? The following is my opinion of TCLUG as a new Linux user (and may not be all that well thought out): One negative aspect concerning TCLUG is it's comlete lack of formality as concerns the nonprofit status and so forth. Could TCPC better serve new Linux users than TCLUG if they were to add a Linux SIG to their already impressive list of 15 SIGs? I see three primary benefits TCLUG provides to new users at no cost (and there are probably others): 1. Mail list 2. Install Fest 3. A wealth of knowledge given freely by very experienced members. The downfalls are (and there may be more): 1. No BOD, By-laws, and lacking nonprofit status. 2. No regularly scheduled discussion group (except beer meetings). This seems to contribute to little followup learning after the install fest...kinda like "I got linux installed...now what?" 3. For whatever reason, I don't see much involvement in TCLUG by new Linux users concerning the direction of our LUG. I joined TCLUG just as I began using Linux approx. 4 months ago. These are a few things I noticed in that time. From barnabas at knicknack.net Mon Feb 4 13:23:05 2002 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Web site index Message-ID: <20020204131503.A32610@knicknack.net> I'm looking for a tool which will produce a list of all the files referenced on a web site starting from a particular point (http://www.test.com/newsite, for example). Is anyone aware of such a tool? I've tried searching, but it seems I can't come up with the right keywords. TIA, Eric From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Feb 4 13:36:23 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless/Microwave (OT) In-Reply-To: <035e01c1a508$c3facec0$47646496@dart>; from jspinti@dart.dartdist.com on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:55:51PM -0600 References: <035e01c1a508$c3facec0$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020204131721.B2520@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 12:55:51PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > The company I work for is looking at a lease on a second building about 1/2 > mile away in line of site from our current building. Anybody out there have > any contacts/experience with Microwave/Wireless for phone/LAN/mux? > > We currently use fiber to another building that is only about 1/8 mile away, > but that would be cost prohibitive for this building. We are also looking > at fractional T1, Frame Relay, etc. Any (constructive) input would be > welcome. Western Multiplex sells some 5.2/5.8GHz (ISM non-licensed band) radios that are capable of a good 8-10 miles, you can either do 48MBit (or so) on them, or plug a T1 directly into them and use it for whatever is on the T1 channels (it'll act like a transparent bridge). www.wmux.com > > Thanks, > > James Spinti > jspinti at dartdist dot com > 952-368-3278 ext. 396 > 952-368-3255 (fax) -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 14:13:40 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com>; from wlayer@attbroadband.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:35:32AM -0600 References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020204134350.O25998@real-time.com> Quoting Bill Layer (wlayer@attbroadband.com): > On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:48:27 -0600 > "Terry Houle" wrote: > > > Anyway with all that said I do agree with Jack and that is the > > direction I am headed. I will also present before the TCPC Board > > this month some type of relationship with TCLUG to try and formalize > > the concept a little more. It will intentionally be a bit fuzzy > > though. If Clay or any TCLUGers have any objections, or comments, I > > would certainly be glad to hear their thoughts as people weigh in on > > the subject. > > I move that at this time, any futher actions be immediately halted, and an > official 30-day comment period be opened up on the subject of future TCPC > / TCLUG involvement. I would personally like to see the leadership weigh > in on this issue. I would also like to see full corporate financial > disclosure for the TCPC, among other things. My input is to keep TCLUG just the way it is. We are pretty much behold'n to nobody except ourselves. No heavy-handed corporate sponsorship. No political issues with officers, board members, etc... As far as non-profit status, I did research it. For the time and effort it would take to file for non-profit status the benefits aren't worth it. TCLUG doesn't take donates, either in cash or hardware. TCLUG doesn't buy any thing either. So there is no tax breaks for anything. And I don't see this changing in the foreseeable future. As I have stated before, as long as Real Time is in business TCLUG will have a home for free. The group is run just like an open source project; by it's members. This is the biggest appeal of the group. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 4 14:15:59 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from rahrenstorff@mediaone.net on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:10:50AM -0600 References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020204134812.B17794@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:10:50AM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > 1. Mail list > 2. Install Fest > 3. A wealth of knowledge given freely by very experienced members. 4. Monthly meetings with presentations on various topics. > The downfalls are (and there may be more): > > 1. No BOD, By-laws, and lacking nonprofit status. Why are these necessarily bad things? > 2. No regularly scheduled discussion group (except beer meetings). This > seems to contribute to little followup learning after the install > fest...kinda like "I got linux installed...now what?" There tends to be a lot of discussion during and after the regular monthly meetings. What are you looking for with this point? > 3. For whatever reason, I don't see much involvement in TCLUG by new Linux > users concerning the direction of our LUG. As Ben L. recently stated, TCLUG tends to be led by whoever comes up with a cool idea first. If new users come up with cool ideas, most of us will be just as quick to jump on the bandwagon as if the ideas were Clay's or Bob's. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From joelr at ellegon.com Mon Feb 4 14:17:19 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020204194809.30AA41776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Monday 04 February 2002 01:10 am, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 04 February 2002 11:27 am, John J. Trammell wrote: > > I agree. Any TCPC members who want to "join" (whatever that means) > > the LUG can do so, and likewise I presume. No need to make any sort > > of formal arrangement between the two. > > What would be the negative aspects of a formal arrangment between TCPC and > TCLUG? What benefits could such an arrangement bring to both communities? > > The following is my opinion of TCLUG as a new Linux user (and may not be > all that well thought out): > > One negative aspect concerning TCLUG is it's comlete lack of formality as > concerns the nonprofit status and so forth. Each to their own; I think of that as a feature, rather than a bug, unless and until TCLUG starts having to handle a fair amount of money, or being in a position to get some corporate contributions. ... > > I see three primary benefits TCLUG provides to new users at no cost (and > there are probably others): > > 1. Mail list > 2. Install Fest > 3. A wealth of knowledge given freely by very experienced members. Yup. > > The downfalls are (and there may be more): > > 1. No BOD, By-laws, and lacking nonprofit status. > 2. No regularly scheduled discussion group (except beer meetings). This > seems to contribute to little followup learning after the install > fest...kinda like "I got linux installed...now what?" > 3. For whatever reason, I don't see much involvement in TCLUG by new Linux > users concerning the direction of our LUG. > > I joined TCLUG just as I began using Linux approx. 4 months ago. These are > a few things I noticed in that time. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 4 14:18:38 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Installfest rules & procedures In-Reply-To: ; from josh@greentechnologist.org on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:02:21PM -0600 References: <20020204114222.3c99ac80.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020204135200.C17794@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:02:21PM -0600, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > I didn't get there in time to actually plug anything in but I was left > wondering how often there are hostile computers at the InstallFests? We > all know that there are plenty of distrovution versions that have > mandatory patch lists. How often does say, someone bring their computer > and behind everyone's back run something hostile to either catch passwords > in eth traffic or just try to root someone's box? I've never heard of anyone using a machine to make active attacks at a TCLUG installfest and I would expect any such activity to be detected fairly quickly. Packet sniffers show up fairly often, but that falls into the "don't send plaintext passwords or other sensitive information over a network that isn't 100% trusted" category. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Feb 4 14:19:57 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020204135741.A17518@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:10:50AM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 04 February 2002 11:27 am, John J. Trammell wrote: > > I agree. Any TCPC members who want to "join" (whatever that means) > > the LUG can do so, and likewise I presume. No need to make any sort > > of formal arrangement between the two. > > One negative aspect concerning TCLUG is it's comlete lack of formality as > concerns the nonprofit status and so forth. Could TCPC better serve new > Linux users than TCLUG if they were to add a Linux SIG to their already > impressive list of 15 SIGs? SIG= Special Interest Group? But what does formality buy in exchange for loss of flexibility? What does TCPC that warrants formal entanglement? > I see three primary benefits TCLUG provides to new users at no cost (and > there are probably others): > > 1. Mail list > 2. Install Fest > 3. A wealth of knowledge given freely by very experienced members. At the very least you have to include 4. Regular meetings. > > The downfalls are (and there may be more): > > 1. No BOD, By-laws, and lacking nonprofit status. BOD = Board of directors? How are these things negatives? What advantages would there be to having a more formal organization? Someone has been working on the non-profit issue, but I have yet to see any strong arguments for a more hierarchical LUG. Being unorganized has its advantages. > 2. No regularly scheduled discussion group (except beer meetings). This > seems to contribute to little followup learning after the install > fest...kinda like "I got linux installed...now what?" So, what are you looking for? Meetings more than once a month? Monthly newby meetings to go along with the regular monthly meetings? Meetings can be a bear to organize. > 3. For whatever reason, I don't see much involvement in TCLUG by new Linux > users concerning the direction of our LUG. You seem to be involved. How about some more specific ideas on what direction you'd like? I'm happy with our current directionlessness ;) . -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From veldy at veldy.net Mon Feb 4 14:30:04 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CUPS and Lexmark 312 Message-ID: <002b01c1a4e0$5ec653d0$3028680a@tgt.com> Hi all. I have a Lexmark 312L USB laser printer, which is actually a 312 (I am one of the lucky ones). The 312 reportedly works with Linux. I have been to http://www.linuxprinting.org and I have downloaded the PPD for my printer (just a postscript PPD more or less). I added the cupsomatic perl script to /usr/local/bin and modified the PPD to reference it explicitly. However, I seem to be having a problem. When I load the PPD into CUPS (via the KDE 2.2.2 printer manager), I am getting an error when I print. Actually, I get a leader sheet that says "device xx" on it. If I send raw print to the printer (rather than using the PPD driver), I get evel=1 (presumably a reference to postscript level 1). Then the test sheet prints fine on the second page. The problem is that I don't want the garbage first sheet and if I use the PPD, I still get it and most of the time, nothing will print, instead causing the printer to show a data error. OK, in short, has anybody managed to get this particular printer to work properly using CUPS? Thanks in advance, Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net From clay at fandre.com Mon Feb 4 14:31:30 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <1012846928.1408.3.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> <1012846928.1408.3.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <1012849463.3c5edb37b11cd@www.fandre.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens : > I move that we shut down this crappy LUG, uninstall linux on all our > servers right now, sever all ties with each other and join TCPC and > show > them and ourselves the true value of using Microsoft (TM) products. > Cause we all know that is the future. > > YHBT HAND :-) First RH, now Windows. Ben, I'm beginning to worry about you. > > On a more serious side: > > or we could stop worrying about it cause the LUG's not going anywhere > without a popular consensus. There really ISN'T any "leadership" we're > more like a semi-organized mob lead by > whom-ever-suggests-something-cool-first. Ask Clay I'm sure he'll not > disagree with that sentiment too much. > I take that back. Ben, you may actually "get it." He's right. I don't have as much power as you think. It's kind of like the Linux kernel. Sure, Linus controls it, but if he starts doing things to it that other people object to, his power will begin to fade. (finger @finger.kernel.org) Kind of like me. If I start doing things to the TCLUG that people don't like, people will stop showing up to meetings and will probably start their own LUG. That's why I try to keep from over-managing the LUG. "For the people, by the people." I have no intention to do anything with the TCLUG. Partially because I'm really lazy, but mainly because I don't see a need. I have yet to hear complaints about how the group is run or managed, so why fix what isn't broken. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that the TCLUG can't improve. But I don't think we need to change how the group is run/managed. If you are interested in starting a TCLUG SIG, feel free. You can let me know when/where you plan on meeting and I will put it on the webpage. And if the TCPC wants to start a Linux SIG, they are more than welcome to. But in my mind they will be different enough that is doesn't make sense to combine them. But again, this is not my LUG. If I hear enough interest in it I will create a new "webpoll" and we can see what "you the people" want. -- Clay From clay at fandre.com Mon Feb 4 14:32:51 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <1012851294.3c5ee25eaf046@www.fandre.com> Quoting Rodd Ahrenstorff : > > What would be the negative aspects of a formal arrangment between TCPC > and > TCLUG? What benefits could such an arrangement bring to both > communities? > > The following is my opinion of TCLUG as a new Linux user (and may not be > all > that well thought out): > > One negative aspect concerning TCLUG is it's comlete lack of formality > as concerns the nonprofit status and so forth. Could TCPC better serve new > Linux users than TCLUG if they were to add a Linux SIG to their already > impressive list of 15 SIGs? > How is not being a nonprofit negative? Yes, I'm all for a TCPC Linux SIG, but I don't see a reason to associate it with the TCLUG. > I see three primary benefits TCLUG provides to new users at no cost (and > there are probably others): > > 1. Mail list > 2. Install Fest > 3. A wealth of knowledge given freely by very experienced members. > > The downfalls are (and there may be more): > > 1. No BOD, By-laws, and lacking nonprofit status. We've had this discussion a few months ago. No one could give me a good reason why we should register the group as non-profit. (execpt for tax-deducting donated HW, which there isn't any) > 2. No regularly scheduled discussion group (except beer meetings). This > seems to contribute to little followup learning after the install > fest...kinda like "I got linux installed...now what?" Hmmmm, mailing list seems to work good for this. > 3. For whatever reason, I don't see much involvement in TCLUG by new > Linux users concerning the direction of our LUG. I'm open to suggestions. If you want to be anonymous: http://www.mn-linux.org/feedback/ From jts at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 4 14:35:15 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Distro/App for DVD playback In-Reply-To: <200202041815.g14IFtS05902@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Is there a Linux distribution that is better > suited/comes with DVD playback stuff, > or is there an app that will do it for any > disto? I've had good luck with Xine (currently running 0.9.2). No menu support as of 0.9.2, though: http://gape.ist.utl.pt/ment00/linuxdvd.html (includes DeCSS plugin) http://xine.sourceforge.net/ (no DeCSS) Haven't tried Ogle yet. The 450 MHz CPU is probably your biggest bottleneck. It might be less choppy if you reduce the video resolution ... Joel From jack at jacku.com Mon Feb 4 14:37:00 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204175941.GC605@iucha.net> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204175941.GC605@iucha.net> Message-ID: <02020414201800.00889@geezer> On Monday 04 February 2002 11:59, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:35:32AM -0600, Bill Layer wrote: > > A comment or two of my own. > > > > On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:48:27 -0600 > > > > "Terry Houle" wrote: > > > Anyway with all that said I do agree with Jack and that is the > > > direction I am headed. I will also present before the TCPC Board > > > this month some type of relationship with TCLUG to try and formalize > > > the concept a little more. It will intentionally be a bit fuzzy > > > though. If Clay or any TCLUGers have any objections, or comments, I > > > would certainly be glad to hear their thoughts as people weigh in on > > > the subject. > > > > I move that at this time, any futher actions be immediately halted, and > > an official 30-day comment period be opened up on the subject of future > > TCPC / TCLUG involvement. I would personally like to see the leadership > > weigh in on this issue. I would also like to see full corporate financial > > disclosure for the TCPC, among other things. > > Leadership? Corporate financial disclosure? Bill? BILL? > > > I do not wish to see the TCLUG fall under external influence, or become > > absorbed or assimilated into any other group. I am dubious about the real > > costs & benefits for the TCLUG, and I would like to see some thoughtful > > analysis of potential scenarios before we tread on unfamiliar ground. > > What kind of unapropriate influence? What cost for TCLUG? If somebody > asks for help, you give it, or flame the guy extra krispy... What's > gonna change? > > florin Well said Florin. Since I started this discussion let me say that I never considered in anyway that the TCLUG would be "absorbed" by TCPC. This "relationship" is simply a convient way to provide a similar service to two memberships. Those TCPC members that are interested in learning more about Linux and those TCLUG members looking for some less technical more "new user" presentations/discussions. If anything I believe the presence of such an outlet would increase TCLUG membership as new users become more experienced and wish to learn more technical things. FWIW Terry is going to continue to have meetings on the 2nd Saturday and Rodd, Joel(?), and I among others will help when we can. If there is no official connection to the TCLUG that's fine. I just thought it would be a nice idea to promote the TCLUG by connecting it to those meetings. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From jacque at fruitioninc.com Mon Feb 4 14:48:00 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204135741.A17518@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: >> 2. No regularly scheduled discussion group (except beer meetings). This >> seems to contribute to little followup learning after the install >> fest...kinda like "I got linux installed...now what?" >So, what are you looking for? Meetings more than once a month? >Monthly newby meetings to go along with the regular monthly >meetings? Meetings can be a bear to organize. I think the newbie SIG is a great idea. I think if Jack and others want to organize it, more power to them. I think it would add some additional value to the people curious or struggling with linux. IIRC, we talked about Beer Meetings for awhile, but thats what it all was...talk. I volunteered to organize it and so now we have them. :) I don't see why we need to have a formal relationship with the TCPC over this, however. If the organizers think it would be easier to work with the TCPC to create the SIG, fine with me. Either way it will benefit the newbies. I'm sure that if you email Clay, he'll give you a place to add your meeting info to the mn-linux.org. ~jacque From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 15:03:44 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Web site index In-Reply-To: <20020204131503.A32610@knicknack.net> References: <20020204131503.A32610@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <20020204205256.GE605@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:15:03PM -0600, Eric Stanley wrote: > I'm looking for a tool which will produce a list of all the files > referenced on a web site starting from a particular point > (http://www.test.com/newsite, for example). Is anyone aware of such a > tool? I've tried searching, but it seems I can't come up with the > right keywords. You could try fetching the web site with wget [1] and then recursively greping [2] for URLs. florin 1. Man wget 2. Man grep -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/38cffe65/attachment.pgp From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Mon Feb 4 15:06:37 2002 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <001f01c1adbd$eb9d18d0$0238dccc@hutchtel.net> A while back someone posted a link to a nice intrusion detector program. It had a web interface which displayed attempts, types of attacks, and specifically had a screen shot showing nimda attacks. Anyone know where I can find it? Raymond From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 15:39:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Message-ID: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Couple of weeks ago, I put this into my .muttrc my_hdr X-message-flag: Outlook is a breeding ground for viruses. See http://cws.internet.com/mail.html for alternatives This was based on info I read at http://www.rodos.net/outlook/ I got a couple hey-what-is-this messages (Hi! Jacque). Most, like Jacque, where professional and polite. Jacque and I even bantered back in forth via irc and email. But it was all in fun. The end of last week, I got some nasty email from outlook users. The "how dare I mess(!) with their email" type. Ironic. I know I never once flamed an outlook user about mailing me a .doc file or even an html-formatted email. When I did complain, I did it professionally and explained why they should not send MS specific messages (my explaination is attached) So, I changed my outlook hack to just posts to the tclug. Today I got 7 posts from TCLUG members complaining about my outlook hack. 1 (Thanks Jacque) was professional. The other 6 where nasty. To respond to one of the messages, I have never had sexy with my mother. :-P So, the point. This mailing list is for LINUX users, my little hack does not effect ANY MUA under Linux -and- it only effects 1 specific MUA; Outlook. So, shut off the hack? If so why? If not, why? As an aside, I'll probably shut off the hack because I like Jacque :-), but I'm interested in your opinions. In a world of IE only web sites, Windows only attachements, is this really that bad of a thing? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 -------------- next part -------------- You sent the attachment in Microsoft Word format, a secret proprietary format, so it is hard for me to read. If you send me plain text, HTML, or PDF, then I will read it. Distributing documents in Word format is bad for you and for others. You can't be sure what they will look like if someone views them with a different version of Word; they may not work at all. Receiving Word attachments is bad for you because they can carry viruses (see http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/acro.html). Sending Word attachments is bad for you, because a Word document normally includes hidden information about the author, enabling those in the know to pry into the author's activities (maybe yours). Text that you think you deleted may still be embarrassingly present. See http://www.microsystems.com/Shares_Well.htm for more info. But above all, sending people Word documents puts pressure on them to use Microsoft software and helps to deny them any other choice. In effect, you become a buttress of the Microsoft monopoly. This pressure is a major obstacle to the broader adoption of free software. Would you please reconsider the use of Word format for communication with other people? Converting the file to HTML is simple. Open the document, click on File, then Save As, and in the Save As Type strip box at the bottom of the box, choose HTML Document or Web Page. Then choose Save. You can then attach the new HTML document instead of your Word document. Note that versions of Word change in inconsistent ways -- if you see slightly different menu item names, please try them. To convert to plain text is almost the same -- instead of HTML Document, choose Text Only or Text Document as the Save As Type. From wlayer at attbroadband.com Mon Feb 4 15:41:02 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: References: <46282.198.74.20.77.1012845632.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20020204152835.360e11d3.wlayer@attbroadband.com> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:53:57 -0600 (CST) Brian wrote: > On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 nassarmu@redconcepts.net wrote: > > > you borrowed someone elses keyboard, its a cheapass 5 buck keyboard with> > a bad right arrow key. could you please return it. > > I just have to ask... wouldn't it cost you more at this point to get it > back than to just buy a new one? Unless it has some sentimental value > or you're just doing it for the principle of the thing it seems like a > moot point to me. So you have it then? ;-) -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From barnabas at knicknack.net Mon Feb 4 16:05:47 2002 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Web site index In-Reply-To: <20020204205256.GE605@iucha.net>; from florin@iucha.net on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:52:56PM -0600 References: <20020204131503.A32610@knicknack.net> <20020204205256.GE605@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020204154227.A5665@knicknack.net> I thought about doing something like that, but I was hoping to avoid rewriting something that had already been written. I suppose there's probably also a Perl module that parses HTML that could be useful. On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:52:56PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:15:03PM -0600, Eric Stanley wrote: > > I'm looking for a tool which will produce a list of all the files > > referenced on a web site starting from a particular point > > (http://www.test.com/newsite, for example). Is anyone aware of such a > > tool? I've tried searching, but it seems I can't come up with the > > right keywords. > > You could try fetching the web site with wget [1] and then recursively > greping [2] for URLs. > > florin > > 1. Man wget > 2. Man grep > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Mon Feb 4 16:07:25 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Web site index References: <20020204131503.A32610@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <3C5F0118.54A67C41@mn.mediaone.net> Visio Pro has a wizard that will walk through a web site and create a tree of all the links. You can specify which types of files to include. Unfortunately, Visio is strictly a Windows product so this may not be helpful. Eric Stanley wrote: > I'm looking for a tool which will produce a list of all the files > referenced on a web site starting from a particular point > (http://www.test.com/newsite, for example). Is anyone aware of such a > tool? I've tried searching, but it seems I can't come up with the > right keywords. > > TIA, > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Mon Feb 4 16:09:03 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Web site index In-Reply-To: <20020204205256.GE605@iucha.net> References: <20020204205256.GE605@iucha.net> Message-ID: <15455.1172.90253.840165@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "f" == florin writes: f> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:15:03PM -0600, Eric Stanley wrote: >> I'm looking for a tool which will produce a list of all the files >> referenced on a web site starting from a particular point >> (http://www.test.com/newsite, for example). Is anyone aware of such a >> tool? I've tried searching, but it seems I can't come up with the >> right keywords. f> You could try fetching the web site with wget [1] and then recursively f> greping [2] for URLs. Actually, I bet you could do this nicely using the Perl www library (that wget is built on), if you're comfortable with perl. There's some discussion in the perl cookbook, too. On the other hand, if you're not comfortable with perl, florin's approach will be easier. R From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 4 16:22:04 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <1012851294.3c5ee25eaf046@www.fandre.com> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <20020204103532.1a902007.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020204112726.A4676@trammell.dyndns.org> <200202041911.g14JBOb05055@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <1012851294.3c5ee25eaf046@www.fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > 1. No BOD, By-laws, and lacking nonprofit status. Clay Fandre wrote: > We've had this discussion a few months ago. No one could give me a > good reason why we should register the group as non-profit. (execpt > for tax-deducting donated HW, which there isn't any) There may not be any TCLUG owned hardware at the moment, but Bob could easily deduct the cost for the server and it's bandwidth as business provided charity. For example (just an example): Equipment $400 (est. cost of server for 1xdonation) Co-Location $100/month (just a guess) Labor $20/hr * 5 hr/month (another guess) ---------------------- ------------------------------- Recurring Subtotal $2,400/year Annual Total $2,800/year That may not seem like a lot, but in truth, it adds up. Even if Bob only charged $25/month for the co-location, that's still a $300 charitable donation. Remember a few months ago when one of the TCLUG members wanted to donate a collection of magazines and books as the start of the TCLUG Library? How much do you think that estimated donation would equate to? A few hundred dollars? A formal nonprofit organization would be beneficial in establishing a tax deduction for this gift to the person donating. I think TCLUG is past the critical mass in membership it needs to sustain itself. In fact, we're large enough to have our own SIG's. Take tclug-devel for example. Maybe it is time we address Linux for Noobeez. ;-) -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/421d5367/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Feb 4 16:23:45 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <20020204152835.360e11d3.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Bill Layer wrote: > So you have it then? ;-) Saw that one coming :-) No, I do not have it, nor was I even at the installfest. -Brian From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Mon Feb 4 16:25:09 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Message-ID: <03eaa7810130f807d2@[172.29.97.10]> > Today I got 7 posts from TCLUG members complaining about my > outlook hack. 1 Does show Linux's lack of desktop installations I would say, if even TCLugger's use windows on their machines. I have tried several versions of Linux for the desktop and don't like it. I like it on the server though. > So, shut off the hack? If so why? If not, why? Leave it on. I rather enjoy it. You could change it from time to time. How about this "something is wrong with your Outlook!, please contact your administrator", or "Outlook encountered an error, please reboot now.", if you really wanted to be mean. I use outlook because that is what we use here at my job. I sometimes use pine here with the imap features of our exchange server too. I use Eudora at home on my win2k box. We have taken measures here at my work, we strip all attachment types know to contain viruses before the mail ever gets handed off to exchange. IPC 2002 From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 16:26:32 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020204221537.GF605@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 03:19:25PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > As an aside, I'll probably shut off the hack because I like Jacque :-), but I'm > interested in your opinions. In a world of IE only web sites, Windows only > attachements, is this really that bad of a thing? Yes, shut it off. And change your haircut while you are at it. And remove that silly bumper sticker... Just ignore the losers... There are too many of them and life is so short... florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/d641a995/attachment.pgp From jacque at fruitioninc.com Mon Feb 4 16:47:33 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: > > So, the point. This mailing list is for LINUX users, my little > hack does not > effect ANY MUA under Linux -and- it only effects 1 specific MUA; Outlook. > > So, shut off the hack? If so why? If not, why? > > As an aside, I'll probably shut off the hack because I like > Jacque :-), but I'm > interested in your opinions. In a world of IE only web sites, Windows only > attachements, is this really that bad of a thing? Well my opinion on the matter is this. I don't purposely send HTML email to list and I try to adhere to most of the "list ettiquette". I try to be very conscious about that. I also know that thanks to using outlook, I sent a virus to the list once. I apologized for that. That was not only really embarassing, but I lost several hours of work time because of it. I know outlook sucks. I think most of us outlook users are in the same boat, we use outlook for work. My client uses outlook for the calendaring and contact features. I don't think we should be singled out for that. I have made an effort to get my clients to use linux where it is applicable to their business and mine, i.e. hosting their sites, etc. ~jacque From sextus at visi.com Mon Feb 4 16:49:01 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com> ON Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 03:19:25PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Couple of weeks ago, I put this into my .muttrc > > my_hdr X-message-flag: Outlook is a breeding ground for viruses. See http://cws.internet.com/mail.html for alternatives [...] > > Today I got 7 posts from TCLUG members complaining about my outlook hack. 1 > (Thanks Jacque) was professional. The other 6 where nasty. > > To respond to one of the messages, I have never had sexy with my mother. :-P > > So, the point. This mailing list is for LINUX users, my little hack does not > effect ANY MUA under Linux -and- it only effects 1 specific MUA; Outlook. > > So, shut off the hack? If so why? If not, why? > > As an aside, I'll probably shut off the hack because I like Jacque :-), but I'm > interested in your opinions. In a world of IE only web sites, Windows only > attachements, is this really that bad of a thing? I'd avoid putting advocacy in X-headers; it's not what they were allowed for, and putting 4 or 5 of them in every email dilutes your message and can make you look like a crank. If you are a crank, you can grind your ax in your (on-topic) message or your .sig. Regarding Outlook, I think it's better to request plain text copies of HTML or Word documents, and to write back "Excuse me, but did you send me this message about @#@^#&!U!YH!J\\1\21?" when you get a virus-authored Outlook message, than to broadcast a putdown to anybody happening to use the MUA that came with their machine. -- Michael From dante at plethora.net Mon Feb 4 16:51:02 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Couple of weeks ago, I put this into my .muttrc > > my_hdr X-message-flag: Outlook is a breeding ground for viruses. See http://cws.internet.com/mail.html for alternatives > Thanks for the idea. > > So, the point. This mailing list is for LINUX users, my little hack does not > effect ANY MUA under Linux -and- it only effects 1 specific MUA; Outlook. > > So, shut off the hack? If so why? If not, why? Up to you. Religion is all about people not wanting to be the only fool on their block. > > As an aside, I'll probably shut off the hack because I like Jacque :-), but I'm > interested in your opinions. In a world of IE only web sites, Windows only > attachements, is this really that bad of a thing? > It doesn't do anything to their client, the worst complaints are probably from people who are uncomfortable using LookOut to begin [one space, very carefully] with ;) Seriously, anyone who complains about X-Message headers should get a clue and a life, 'cause they obviously lack both. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 4 16:52:23 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45412.198.74.20.75.1012862600.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > I just have to ask... wouldn't it cost you more at this point to get it > back than to just buy a new one? Yes > Unless it has some sentimental value No > or you're just doing it for the principle of the thing Yes >it seems like a > moot point to me. i only lost a keyboard, Lorry lost the power supply for her laptop and spencer lost a whole computer. this time i only lost a keyboard, next time i will have to decide on which hardware i can afford to lose before i take anything to the installfest if i take anything at all! (ok so maybe i am overreacting, but if this happens again there will be no more installfests!) -munir > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jacque at fruitioninc.com Mon Feb 4 16:54:15 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> Message-ID: > > We've had this discussion a few months ago. No one could give me a > > good reason why we should register the group as non-profit. (execpt > > for tax-deducting donated HW, which there isn't any) > > I think TCLUG is past the critical mass in membership it needs to > sustain itself. In fact, we're large enough to have our own SIG's. > Take tclug-devel for example. Maybe it is time we address Linux for > Noobeez. ;-) > Actually my company has "donated" several hundred dollars, too, to pay for those TCLUG print outs and biz cards. Not to mention the time I spent designing the logo etc. The problem I see with becoming a non-profit is that we'll need to start accounting, we need fill out tax forms and we'll need a board. We'll need people to keep track of dues, etc. I've seen a few groups fall apart at this point, because while there are many members, there are no people willing (and qualified) to volunteer a large amount of time to deal with the actual business aspects. jacque From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Mon Feb 4 17:05:05 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 03:19:25PM -0600 References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020204164928.A8121@trammell.dyndns.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 03:19:25PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: [snip] > > As an aside, I'll probably shut off the hack because I like Jacque :-), but I'm > interested in your opinions. In a world of IE only web sites, Windows only > attachements, is this really that bad of a thing? > Neat hack. Maybe someone with more email savvy knows better, but here's all I could find about it in RFC 822 [http://sunsite.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc822.html]: 4.7.5. USER-DEFINED-FIELD Individual users of network mail are free to define and use additional header fields. Such fields must have names which are not already used in the current specification or in any definitions of extension-fields, and the overall syntax of these user-defined-fields must conform to this specification's rules for delimiting and folding fields. Due to the extension-field publishing process, the name of a user- defined-field may be pre-empted Note: The prefatory string "X-" will never be used in the names of Extension-fields. This provides user-defined fields with a protected set of names. Not surprising that Outlook users worry when messages do things that catch them by surprise. :-) -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Feb 4 17:06:50 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D15@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Someone forgot to hire bouncers for the installfest to break itchy fingers. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: nassarmu@redconcepts.net [mailto:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 4:43 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest > > > > > I just have to ask... wouldn't it cost you more at this > point to get it > > back than to just buy a new one? > > Yes > > > Unless it has some sentimental value > > No > > > or you're just doing it for the principle of the thing > > Yes > > >it seems like a > > moot point to me. > > i only lost a keyboard, Lorry lost the power supply for her laptop and > spencer lost a whole computer. > > this time i only lost a keyboard, next time i will have to > decide on which > hardware i can afford to lose before i take anything to the > installfest if > i take anything at all! > > (ok so maybe i am overreacting, but if this happens again > there will be no > more installfests!) > > -munir > > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Mon Feb 4 17:08:08 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <45412.198.74.20.75.1012862600.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <45412.198.74.20.75.1012862600.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20020204225726.C0A8F1776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Monday 04 February 2002 04:43 pm, you wrote: > > I just have to ask... wouldn't it cost you more at this point to get it > > back than to just buy a new one? > > Yes > > > Unless it has some sentimental value > > No > > > or you're just doing it for the principle of the thing > > Yes > > >it seems like a > > moot point to me. > > i only lost a keyboard, Lorry lost the power supply for her laptop and > spencer lost a whole computer. > > this time i only lost a keyboard, next time i will have to decide on which > hardware i can afford to lose before i take anything to the installfest if > i take anything at all! > > (ok so maybe i am overreacting, Nah. You're not overreacting. It's a violation, even if the financial loss to you is small -- and laptop power supplies and whole systems aren't cheap. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 4 17:09:28 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <03eaa7810130f807d2@[172.29.97.10]> References: <03eaa7810130f807d2@[172.29.97.10]> Message-ID: <1012863636.1293.13.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 16:13, Ryan Ware wrote: > Does show Linux's lack of desktop installations I would say, if even > TCLugger's use windows on their machines. I have tried several versions > of Linux for the desktop and don't like it. I like it on the server > though. save your windows evangelism for someone else. Noone here cares. > > > So, shut off the hack? If so why? If not, why? > > Leave it on. I rather enjoy it. You could change it from time to time. > How about this "something is wrong with your Outlook!, please contact > your administrator", or "Outlook encountered an error, please reboot > now.", if you really wanted to be mean. I use outlook because that is > what we use here at my job. I sometimes use pine here with the imap > features of our exchange server too. I use Eudora at home on my win2k > box. We have taken measures here at my work, we strip all attachment > types know to contain viruses before the mail ever gets handed off to > exchange. oh my god an exchange server that strips attachments. What will those wily coyotes at micros~1 think of next.... symlinks maybe? So does that mean your totally excellent mail client can't comprehend (or even receive) this gpg signature i've used to verify this mail came from me? That's just great! Now I can deny that I sent it! -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/ecb08124/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 4 17:11:58 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012863829.1408.17.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 16:36, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > Well my opinion on the matter is this. I don't purposely send HTML email to > list and I try to adhere to most of the "list ettiquette". I try to be very > conscious about that. I also know that thanks to using outlook, I sent a > virus to the list once. I apologized for that. That was not only really > embarassing, but I lost several hours of work time because of it. I know > outlook sucks. There's a plugin for evolution for using some of the more "high-tech" features of Exchange server. It'll cost you a few bucks, and I can't verify it's stability cause we just have that crappy linux garbage here for our mail services :-) Might end up getting an exchange server though for shared folders and centralized calendaring for the business side of the house someday when we can afford the licensing. > I think most of us outlook users are in the same boat, we use outlook for > work. My client uses outlook for the calendaring and contact features. I > don't think we should be singled out for that. I have made an effort to get > my clients to use linux where it is applicable to their business and mine, > i.e. hosting their sites, etc. > > > > ~jacque > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/fc209059/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Feb 4 17:21:33 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: Well, I like Jacque too. :) So that's one reason to not do the X-Header thing. The other 6 messages are to me, reasons to keep it in. Since they can't seem to compose a constructive responce, perhaps a wall of shame is in order (no I'm not mean and evil...not not me.) Seriously, if they're gonna give you a virtual finger you might as well do something to deserve said virtual finger. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 4 17:22:58 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <20020204225726.C0A8F1776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> References: <20020204225726.C0A8F1776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <34789.198.74.20.77.1012864382.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Nah. You're not overreacting. It's a violation, even if the financial > loss to you is small -- and laptop power supplies and whole systems > aren't cheap. it would seem that the power supply has been found, it seems to have been misplaced during the RH presentation, Al found it and we are working out arangements for us to pick it up WTG AL! -munir From chad at bitstream.net Mon Feb 4 17:24:20 2002 From: chad at bitstream.net (Chad Juettner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <003701c1a51a$f14ad2f0$5101010a@javelintech.com> > What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept > an SSL certificate from a website that has been > self-generated and not bought from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? > Mozilla/Netscape will prompt you and ask if you still want to > connect, but IE just decides to stop and prevents the page > from loading (well, I most recently saw it on IE on MacOSX, > but I think it happens on Windows boxes as well). I had a similar problem. End users had about a fifty-fifty success rate accessing a secure site that was using a cert issue by NT's certificate management service. My fix was to generate a new certificate via Netscape CMS. I never found out why the MS generated cert didn't work, I was just happy the other solution worked. -Chad From jima at gimp.damnation.net Mon Feb 4 17:44:02 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D15@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Someone forgot to hire bouncers for the installfest to break itchy fingers. > :) Well, dang. Here I was under the impression that you guys didn't want me LARTing people. Perhaps at the next installfest I should make my security duties official. Jima TCLUG Security? From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Feb 4 17:45:25 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <1012863829.1408.17.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: | I don't think we should be singled out for that. I have made an effort | to get my clients to use linux where it is applicable to their I don't think you're bing singled out. I'm sure Bob's intention is to raise awareness of Outlook's shortcomings, of which most Linux users should be aware of. So Bob, sending mail with your header to the LUG list is preaching to the chior. So, use it when sending mail to those who need to be enducated in Outlook's shortcomings. Personally, Bob can put whatever the hell he wants in his e-mail. If you don't like what Bob sends, or what he puts in his mail headers, you have the option to edit ~/.procmailrc or create Outlook filters to send Bob's mail to /dev/null (or the recycling bin) Or if you want to be really cool, script something to strip that header from your e-mail automatically. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Mon Feb 4 17:46:44 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D15@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:57:05PM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D15@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020204172440.A8883@trammell.dyndns.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:57:05PM -0600, Austad, Jay wrote: > Someone forgot to hire bouncers for the installfest to break itchy fingers. > :) > Wasn't that Jima's job? :^) -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Mon Feb 4 17:49:10 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com>; from sextus@visi.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:37:59PM -0600 References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020204174122.A8949@trammell.dyndns.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:37:59PM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > I'd avoid putting advocacy in X-headers; it's not what they were allowed > for, I'd be interested in a link to some documentation on what exactly they *are* for. Most of what I've found says that X-headers are pretty much up to the user. > and putting 4 or 5 of them in every email dilutes your message and > can make you look like a crank. OK, how about 1 or 2? :) > If you are a crank, you can grind your ax in your (on-topic) message > or your .sig. X-Crank-Axe-Grinding: vIm r001z! 3maC5 5ux0rs! -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 18:10:08 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020204234357.GB12364@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 03:19:25PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Couple of weeks ago, I put this into my .muttrc > > my_hdr X-message-flag: Outlook is a breeding ground for viruses. See http://cws.internet.com/mail.html for alternatives Now check my header out :) florin PS: Bob, if you remove yours, I'll keep mine. -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/07e4a090/attachment.pgp From jts at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 4 18:12:28 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202042205.g14M5US09742@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 Raymond Norton wrote: > Message: 10 > From: "Raymond Norton" > To: > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:52:55 -0600 > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > A while back someone posted a link to a nice intrusion detector program. It > had a web interface which displayed attempts, types of attacks, and > specifically had a screen shot showing nimda attacks. Anyone know where I > can find it? Among IDS software packages, many people seem to prefer snort: http://www.snort.org/ If you store the snort output in a database, ACID can generate nice reports for you (better not to run httpd or other services on IDS machine, though): http://acidlab.sourceforge.net/ Snortsnarf is another tool for analyzing snort output: http://www.silicondefense.com/software/snortsnarf/ Other links of potential interest: http://www.prelude-ids.org/ http://www.tripwire.org/ http://www.lids.org/ http://www.psionic.com/ http://www.freshmeat.net/projects/swatch/ http://www.bastille-linux.org/ http://www.cisecurity.org/bench.html http://www.nessus.org/ http://www.iss.net/ http://www.webtrends.com/ http://www.net.tamu.edu/network/tools/tiger.html http://www.intersectalliance.com/projects/Snare/index.html http://www.resentment.org/projects/viperdb/ http://www.chkrootkit.org/ http://www.immunix.org/ http://www.securityfocus.com/ http://www.sans.org/ http://www.linuxsecurity.org/ (Note that I do not presently consider myself a security expert - most of the above links were gleaned from security related conference sessions at the recent LWCE - http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/) Joel From andy at theasis.com Mon Feb 4 18:30:40 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So, use it when sending mail to those who need to be enducated in > Outlook's shortcomings. And how do you know who needs to be educated? Many of the people who post to this list make horrible errors in spelling and grammar, clearly beyond simple typos. One could claim that English speakers should be aware of these errors and their effects, and bounce back mails with commentary on how things should be spelled or worded. Do you think anyone would be pissed off by that? Such presumption puts people off and closes their minds very quickly. Even if you try to be polite, people will be offended or otherwise bothered by either your choice of words or your attempts to push your message on them. If the message is only some word *you* want to promote regardless of whether someone wants to hear it, then header, attachment, or a whole mail, then I don't see how it's better than spam. If it really is important to the recipients, you don't get through to them by pissing them off. If you want to make a positive difference you need to get their attention in a way that they'll respond to in a non-negative way. > Personally, Bob can put whatever the hell he wants in his e-mail. If you That's true for anyone. But if you actually have a goal, the reasons for doing something like this should be evaluated in terms of the results you actually get, not those you *think* you should get. Andy (a different one) > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org From estabroo at talkware.net Mon Feb 4 18:32:06 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> <20020204234357.GB12364@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3C5F25CB.8080906@talkware.net> > > Now check my header out :) > > florin > > PS: Bob, if you remove yours, I'll keep mine. > > Not to nit pick but you (possibly intentionally) spelled today doday Eric From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 19:10:10 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <3C5F25CB.8080906@talkware.net> References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> <20020204234357.GB12364@iucha.net> <3C5F25CB.8080906@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20020205005646.GC12364@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 06:22:35PM -0600, Eric Estabrooks wrote: > > > > >Now check my header out :) > > > >florin > > > >PS: Bob, if you remove yours, I'll keep mine. > > > > > > Not to nit pick but you (possibly intentionally) spelled today doday 1. That was a bug in the original Microsoft product. 2. Some of the files really go doday. 3. I was laughing so hard, my spell checker failed me. Now, pick your nit :) florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/3c73a882/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 19:47:53 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: <003701c1a51a$f14ad2f0$5101010a@javelintech.com>; from chad@bitstream.net on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 03:06:06PM -0600 References: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <003701c1a51a$f14ad2f0$5101010a@javelintech.com> Message-ID: <20020204194128.F24846@real-time.com> Quoting Chad Juettner (chad@bitstream.net): > > What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept > > an SSL certificate from a website that has been > > self-generated and not bought from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? > > Mozilla/Netscape will prompt you and ask if you still want to > > connect, but IE just decides to stop and prevents the page > > from loading (well, I most recently saw it on IE on MacOSX, > > but I think it happens on Windows boxes as well). First, IE sucks! :-) Second, there is a known bug in IE dealing with SSL. Third, here is the hack to make IE work. SSLEngine on SSLCertificateFile /etc/httpd/certs/www.comany.com.crt SSLCertificateKeyFile /etc/httpd/certs/www.company.com.key SetEnvIf User-Agent ".*MSIE.*" \ nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown \ downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0 SSLCipherSuite ALL:!ADH:!EXPORT56:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:+LOW:+SSLv2:+EXP SSLProtocol all -SSLv3 -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sextus at visi.com Mon Feb 4 19:49:17 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204174122.A8949@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com> <20020204174122.A8949@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20020205014157.GA50269@visi.com> ON Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 05:41:22PM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > I'd be interested in a link to some documentation on what exactly > they *are* for. Most of what I've found says that X-headers are > pretty much up to the user. After rereading RFC822, I'm forced to agree with you. It leaves the disposition of the "X-" namespace specifically to individual users. I still don't think it's a good idea, however. The headers are primarily intended for administrative or non-human (do I repeat myself?) use and manu MUAs won't even show most of them. Besides, we already have the Internet equivalent of a bumper: a signature file. > > and putting 4 or 5 of them in every email dilutes your message and > > can make you look like a crank. > > OK, how about 1 or 2? :) OK, but you'd better make them count. -- Michael ObMUAAdvocacy: mutt sucks. From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 19:50:46 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: ; from jacque@fruitioninc.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:43:51PM -0600 References: <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020204194337.G24846@real-time.com> Quoting Jacqueline Urick (jacque@fruitioninc.com): > The problem I see with becoming a non-profit is that we'll need to start > accounting, we need fill out tax forms and we'll need a board. We'll need > people to keep track of dues, etc. I've seen a few groups fall apart at this > point, because while there are many members, there are no people willing > (and qualified) to volunteer a large amount of time to deal with the actual > business aspects. Bingo! I'd rather donate the bandwidth, servers without having to track it all via accounting. Accounting in general just sucks to me. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Mon Feb 4 20:12:03 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedbackwanted. Message-ID: <04ace21a0231e507d2@[172.29.97.10]> >oh my god an exchange server that strips attachments. What will those >wily coyotes at micros~1 think of next.... symlinks maybe? No it is a separate mail server on a separate machine that relays to and from exchange. We aren't crazy about Exchange, but 1. We own it and a pile of CAL's. 2. Switching to Notes or another commercial product will necessitate spending more $$$ to achieve functionality we already own. 3. There is currently no open source project even close to what Exchange or Notes has to offer. >So does that mean your totally excellent mail client can't comprehend >(or even receive) this gpg signature i've used to verify this mail came >from me? That's just great! Now I can deny that I sent it! No we can allow gpg. Denying would prove what in our context here? IPC 2002 From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 20:13:36 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com>; from sextus@visi.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:37:59PM -0600 References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020204195702.H24846@real-time.com> Quoting Michael Burns (sextus@visi.com): > I'd avoid putting advocacy in X-headers; it's not what they were allowed > for, and putting 4 or 5 of them in every email dilutes your message and > can make you look like a crank. If you are a crank, you can grind your ax > in your (on-topic) message or your .sig. I believe the X-Headers are for whatever you want them to be. Yes, I have 5 X-Headers for reasons NOT to use Microsoft products or the extremes MS wil go to to push their products. And you are right, most MUAs don't even display them. My MUA, mutt, doesn't even display them ala: # Weed ALL mail headers, then put back the ones we want to see ignore * unignore from date subject to cc unignore organization organisation x-mailer: x-newsreader: x-mailing-list: unignore posted-to: In my .muttrc, BUT many mailing lists I post to actually index the X-Headers, so It's a good way for google to pick them up. :-) Call them my subversive advertisments. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From clarson at iaxs.net Mon Feb 4 20:15:18 2002 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Rambling Message-ID: <01a201c1ade9$88175420$3d8386d1@S0025453809> Been raeding articles and threads for about a year now. also have gone to the archives. You people have done a marvelous job on keeping the people informed on how to do things. O.T. Please don't be a part of the problem, Be a part of the solution. Thanks All Chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/b10bac96/attachment.html From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Feb 4 20:17:02 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] routed Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514B2E@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Does anyone have any experience configuring routed? I just need to be able to tell it the following things: 1. not to listen or advertise on one particular interface (the public interface) 2. Not to advertise a particular network (the public one) 3. And to force it to advertise the network assigned to the lo1 interface (it's actually a tunnel endpoint), I don't think it will by default advertise an address assigned as a loopback. I've tried using mrtd, but RIP support in it sucks, and I can't make it advertise the network used for the tunnel. So, I'm thinking routed should be fine. It's been around forever. Jay From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 20:35:16 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] routed In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514B2E@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 04:01:54PM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514B2E@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020204203324.M24846@real-time.com> Quoting Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com): > Does anyone have any experience configuring routed? > > I just need to be able to tell it the following things: > > 1. not to listen or advertise on one particular interface (the public > interface) > 2. Not to advertise a particular network (the public one) > 3. And to force it to advertise the network assigned to the lo1 interface > (it's actually a tunnel endpoint), I don't think it will by default > advertise an address assigned as a loopback. > > > I've tried using mrtd, but RIP support in it sucks, and I can't make it > advertise the network used for the tunnel. So, I'm thinking routed should > be fine. It's been around forever. Been a long time, but I used gated on Solaris. The main point was gated (under Solaris at least) support RIPv2, which is what you need if you are subnetting. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 20:58:06 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com>; from dsherman@real-time.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 08:17:32PM -0600 References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 08:17:32PM -0600, Dave Sherman wrote: > Profiles of international healing ministries etc. > > Members: > > In addition to the above, ?Members? will also be entitled to: > > a) Use the IAHM logo. > > b) Membership listing in IAHM magazine. > > c) To receive referrals. > > d) Able to network globally. > > e) Membership card and certificate > > f) Apply for ministerial credentials > through RAIN, if desired. That's a REALLY COOL header Bob! Why I never thought of that? florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/c26133aa/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Mon Feb 4 20:59:37 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204170647.987449060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: Sorry but have to pop in one more time just to be crystal clear that I am not, was not, proposing any official relationship with TCLUG and TCPC. I did make a reference to bringing it before TCPC board but only for the TCPC aspect of having non TCPC members facilitate some SIG's. As always our meetings are free and open to the public and I would hope to draw in some TCLUG people to some of our meeting and many of our(TCPC) people have attended the Installfest because of the joint publication of sessions. Hope that clears up any confusion as to the TCPC side of it. If anyone has comments or concerns please feel free to contact me off list. thanks Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Kline > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:07 AM > > I agree. The TCLUG seems to stand on its own 2 feet just fine, and the > reasoning for a "relationship" with TCPC is somewhat unclear. I think it > would be great to have an unformal relationship: the casual mixing of > information and members, but they should remain two seperate entities. > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dsherman at real-time.com Mon Feb 4 21:01:10 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> Message-ID: <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> All, I don't know what is going on, but someone or something is using my email address as the From: header for their emails. I am associated with the below ministry, and I suspect that the individual may have been infected by an Outlook virus, but have not been able to contact him yet. I personally run Evolution for Linux, and I am pretty sure I have not been hit with some unknown Linux email virus. *Please* disregard any fishy emails that appear to come from me, especially if they have one or more attachments. I personally received the below message with two attachments, one was a valid MS Word doc, the other a 108kb executable file called "those.bat". It is binary, not a real DOS batch file, and I suspect it is the real virus in this whole thing. Dave Sherman On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 20:37, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 08:17:32PM -0600, Dave Sherman wrote: > > Profiles of international healing ministries etc. > > > > Members: > > > > In addition to the above, ?Members? will also be entitled to: > > > > a) Use the IAHM logo. > > > > b) Membership listing in IAHM magazine. > > > > c) To receive referrals. > > > > d) Able to network globally. > > > > e) Membership card and certificate > > > > f) Apply for ministerial credentials > > through RAIN, if desired. > > That's a REALLY COOL header Bob! > > Why I never thought of that? > > florin > > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From bobdove at pipeline.com Mon Feb 4 21:03:17 2002 From: bobdove at pipeline.com (Bob W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-f backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15iu5u0ujas566hinpfovgot0dk2niuith@4ax.com> From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 4 21:12:50 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: <20020124195307.GA5242@lemongecko.org> References: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020124195307.GA5242@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <1011910656.20109.93.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-24 at 13:53, Dan Drake wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 at 09:31PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > > What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept an SSL > > certificate from a website that has been self-generated and not bought > > from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? I don't have any problem with Outlook or Outlook Express doing IMAPS. Once per session you have to click "yes" on the "This site is using an untrusted SSL Certificate" it's a minor irritation. > > Ooh! Ooh! I've got the same problem. My friends have also had problems getting > Outlook to do SSL-enabled IMAP; it seems to be a similar problem. > > (strangely, my suggestion to use Mutt fell on deaf ears...) > > So if you know how to fix this, I'm interested too. :) > > Thanks, > > Dan > > -- > | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) > | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ > | public key: email -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 4 21:29:38 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /dev weirdness: broken link, disappearing ttyUSB In-Reply-To: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1011911671.20109.98.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-24 at 08:03, Ben Stallings wrote: Are you using devfs? What kernel are you using? > Then there's the other unexplained phenomenon in the Bermuda Triangle of my > /dev directory. If I want to hotsync my Handspring Visor, which uses a USB > cradle, I have to manually create /dev/ttyUSB0 and /dev/ttyUSB1 and give them > appropriate rw permissions. Then, after I use them, they disappear. > Sometimes immediately after I use them, sometimes not until I reboot, but > they're always gone by the time I reboot. What's going on there? > > Thanks again for all your help! --Ben (Mandrake 8.1) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 4 21:32:04 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <20020205032501.GA13703@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 08:48:08PM -0600, Dave Sherman wrote: > All, > > I don't know what is going on, but someone or something is using my > email address as the From: header for their emails. I am associated with > the below ministry, and I suspect that the individual may have been > infected by an Outlook virus, but have not been able to contact him yet. Hmmm... the headers look interesting: Received: from enchanter.real-time.com (enchanter.real-time.com [208.20.202.11]) by beaver.iucha.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64EA2D72 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:17:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail.real-time.com (dsherman-rt-dsl.real-time.com +[208.20.203.226]) by enchanter.real-time.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g152HWY32026; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:17:32 -0600 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:17:32 -0600 Message-Id: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> So somebody broke into enchanter.real-time.com? Or is spoofing it? > *Please* disregard any fishy emails that appear to come from me, > especially if they have one or more attachments. I personally received > the below message with two attachments, one was a valid MS Word doc, the > other a 108kb executable file called "those.bat". It is binary, not a > real DOS batch file, and I suspect it is the real virus in this whole > thing. OK. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/ac943c9e/attachment.pgp From schanno at tcfreenet.org Mon Feb 4 21:48:04 2002 From: schanno at tcfreenet.org (Terry R Schanno) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] missing hardware from fest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020204213851.B70781-100000@tcfreenet.org> > > Someone forgot to hire bouncers for the installfest to break itchy fingers. > Well, dang. Here I was under the impression that you guys didn't want me > LARTing people. Perhaps at the next installfest I should make my security > duties official. As long as two conditions get met; 1. Mehei isn't allowed to drink and be your cohort. 2. You don't turn deadbolts wrong side in :> Wait...I supose the second doesn't apply because your last name isn't...well, those who'll get this know who I'm talking about ;> Terry Schanno TCFN Volunteer Coordinator schanno@tcfreenet.org From jclark at citilink.com Mon Feb 4 21:49:32 2002 From: jclark at citilink.com (Jeff Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <3C5EDAC6.FB085593@citilink.com> References: <3C5EDAC6.FB085593@citilink.com> Message-ID: <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> On Monday 04 February 2002 13:02, you wrote: > Nate Carlson wrote: > > This is true. I tried to setup a linux wireless gateway with Orinoco > cards at work about 6 months ago and read somewhere (wireless howto?) > there is a special code passed to the Orinoco card's when plugged into a > base-station that tells them to allow 11Mbps. > > Under linux all you'll get out of the Orinoco cards is the ad-hoc > 3?Mbps. > > Christopher Gahlon Not true. I have two Orinoco cards installed in PCMCIA-to-ISA bridges. One is in a PII-233MHz and the other in a 486-100MHz. These machines provide a wireless link between my "main floor" and "basement" subnets, and they both run at 11Mb/s (as long as I keep the 486 next to the basement window; if I move it behind the wall, the S/N ratio drops so low that the speed drops down to 5.5Mb/s or even 2Mb/s). These cards are configured to use the IBSS mode (not the Orinoco "Ad-Hoc" mode). It was a bear to get the kernel and drivers set up and working correctly, but once I did (and stopped using a flaky Compaq as one end of the connection), it works just fine. Jeff Clark mailto:jclark@citilink.com "Too soon old, too late smart." http://www.citilink.com/~jclark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Microsoft's success proves "You can fool some of the people, all of the time." From kelly-black at mediaone.net Mon Feb 4 22:09:54 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <02020421452800.16919@edith> Can I get a copy of the virus to test it under the latest CVS copy of Wine? Thanks, Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 04 February 2002 20:48, Dave Sherman wrote: > All, > > I don't know what is going on, but someone or something is using my > email address as the From: header for their emails. I am associated with > the below ministry, and I suspect that the individual may have been > infected by an Outlook virus, but have not been able to contact him yet. > > I personally run Evolution for Linux, and I am pretty sure I have not > been hit with some unknown Linux email virus. > > *Please* disregard any fishy emails that appear to come from me, > especially if they have one or more attachments. I personally received > the below message with two attachments, one was a valid MS Word doc, the > other a 108kb executable file called "those.bat". It is binary, not a > real DOS batch file, and I suspect it is the real virus in this whole > thing. > > Dave Sherman From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 4 22:11:17 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: <1011910656.20109.93.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020124195307.GA5242@lemongecko.org> <1011910656.20109.93.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <1012882083.5207.7.camel@minime> On Thu, 2002-01-24 at 16:17, Ben Lutgens wrote: > I don't have any problem with Outlook or Outlook Express doing IMAPS. > Once per session you have to click "yes" on the "This site is using an > untrusted SSL Certificate" it's a minor irritation. > This message has been delay taped for our consumers on the west coast. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020204/41895fde/attachment.pgp From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Feb 4 22:37:16 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <200202050432.g154Wac29047@linuxserver.northlans.com> was it smoothwall? www.smoothwall.com > A while back someone posted a link to a nice intrusion detector program. It > had a web interface which displayed attempts, types of attacks, and > specifically had a screen shot showing nimda attacks. Anyone know where I > can find it? > > > Raymond > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From churchid at visi.com Mon Feb 4 23:12:04 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: Well, Bob, I had been thinking about sending you a polite e-mail off list asking you if there was some specific reason that every message I received from you on this list had its flag up. I would expect the reason you had such a high majority of responses from jerks is just because it wasn't a big deal to most of the affected people to make saying anything a priority. Thanks to Jacque for being a representative of the more civilized subset of Outlook users on the list. Since I generally use flags to keep track of messages of interest that I want to save or come back to, it was an annoyance to have to clear the flag on every one of your messages. Now, I'm afraid, there will be more than just yours to deal with...hehe. Anyway, keep it or not...makes no difference to me. The fact that I'm fairly certain that more than just yours will be sent with the flag set from here on out (Florin's already stated as much...) led me to look into the Rules Wizard options, where one of the action choices is "Clear message flag". So, knock yourselves out guys. Fact is, I wouldn't mind moving my desktop to Linux, but I'm too attached to games like Baldur's Gate, et. al., and for someone with computer know-how, even most Microsoft products can be set up to behave decently (e.g. to send plain text e-mails) the majority of the time. Of course, dual booting is the alternative. Been there, done that, not that fond of it. I have a secondary box that has Linux, Win98SE, and Win2k installed on it, and rebooting from one OS to the other is just too cumbersome to be something I want to have to do on my primary (i.e. most powerful == gaming) system. Thanks, though, for extending my knowledge of the rules wizard...I probably would have never needed to know that if not for you! :} Dan Churchill > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob Tanner > Couple of weeks ago, I put this into my .muttrc From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 00:08:24 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02020423205300.17685@edith> Or just use a different e-mail client. I suppose you could write the author of Outlook and ask if he would fix this behavior in your mail program if you find it annoying... Anybody know how to set X-message-flag on Kmail? Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 04 February 2002 23:05, Dan Churchill wrote: > Well, Bob, I had been thinking about sending you a polite e-mail off list > asking you if there was some specific reason that every message I received > from you on this list had its flag up. I would expect the reason you had > such a high majority of responses from jerks is just because it wasn't a > big deal to most of the affected people to make saying anything a priority. > Thanks to Jacque for being a representative of the more civilized subset of > Outlook users on the list. > > Since I generally use flags to keep track of messages of interest that I > want to save or come back to, it was an annoyance to have to clear the flag > on every one of your messages. Now, I'm afraid, there will be more than > just yours to deal with...hehe. Anyway, keep it or not...makes no > difference to me. The fact that I'm fairly certain that more than just > yours will be sent with the flag set from here on out (Florin's already > stated as much...) led me to look into the Rules Wizard options, where one > of the action choices is "Clear message flag". So, knock yourselves out > guys. > > Fact is, I wouldn't mind moving my desktop to Linux, but I'm too attached > to games like Baldur's Gate, et. al., and for someone with computer > know-how, even most Microsoft products can be set up to behave decently > (e.g. to send plain text e-mails) the majority of the time. Of course, > dual booting is the alternative. Been there, done that, not that fond of > it. I have a secondary box that has Linux, Win98SE, and Win2k installed on > it, and rebooting from one OS to the other is just too cumbersome to be > something I want to have to do on my primary (i.e. most powerful == gaming) > system. > > Thanks, though, for extending my knowledge of the rules wizard...I probably > would have never needed to know that if not for you! :} > > Dan Churchill From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 5 00:09:52 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: <1012863829.1408.17.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020205054025.GA25713@wookimus.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 05:25:12PM -0600, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Personally, Bob can put whatever the hell he wants in his e-mail. If > you don't like what Bob sends, or what he puts in his mail headers, > you have the option to edit ~/.procmailrc or create Outlook filters to > send Bob's mail to /dev/null (or the recycling bin) Or if you want to > be really cool, script something to strip that header from your e-mail > automatically. # Save old X-message-flag to X-message-flag-Old: :0fh * ^X-message-flag | formail -i "X-message-flag: normal" "Have fun stormin' da castle!" -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/05a42d8a/attachment.pgp From carlos at eberhardt.net Tue Feb 5 00:11:14 2002 From: carlos at eberhardt.net (Carlos Eberhardt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012888586.1152.18.camel@sunflower.eberhardt.net> On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 23:05, Dan Churchill wrote: > Since I generally use flags to keep track of messages of interest that I > want to save or come back to, it was an annoyance to have to clear the flag > on every one of your messages. Now, I'm afraid, there will be more than > just yours to deal with...hehe. Anyway, keep it or not...makes no > difference to me. The fact that I'm fairly certain that more than just > yours will be sent with the flag set from here on out (Florin's already > stated as much...) led me to look into the Rules Wizard options, where one > of the action choices is "Clear message flag". So, knock yourselves out > guys. Sorry, had to throw in 2 cents on this one. :) Dan writes a very nice email. I found myself thinking "that's a reasonable argument" as I read it. But (sensed that coming, right?), isn't the real problem here an Outlook bug? I guess you ('you' generally, not specifically) could point at Bob and say "quit exploiting that bug, you meanie," but why shouldn't Bob be allowed to put whatever he wants to in that header? (Unless I misunderstood the RFC snippet posted earlier.) Dan's done the stand-up thing and figured out a workaround for the bug, but the people that flamed Bob should be shouting at Microsoft, not Bob. http://register.microsoft.com/mswish/suggestion.asp That's the closest thing I could find to a bug reporting page at Microsoft's website (I didn't spend much time looking, to be honest). (You'd think they'd have a bug-reporting link in bold, flashing text on the main page - *wink*) (ok, so it does seem like Bob's intention was to have fun with the Outlook users, but I guess my point is that it's possible for someone to use those headers without having that intention...what then? Shout at them or at Microsoft?) From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Feb 5 00:23:12 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <02020423205300.17685@edith> References: <02020423205300.17685@edith> Message-ID: <200202050012.40469@ellegon.com> On Monday 04 February 2002 11:20 pm, Kelly Black wrote: > Or just use a different e-mail client. > > I suppose you could write the author of Outlook and ask if he would fix > this behavior in your mail program if you find it annoying... > > Anybody know how to set X-message-flag on Kmail? Easy: Settings | Configure Kmail | Mime headers. Note the X-headers in this. . . > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > > On Monday 04 February 2002 23:05, Dan Churchill wrote: > > Well, Bob, I had been thinking about sending you a polite e-mail off list > > asking you if there was some specific reason that every message I > > received from you on this list had its flag up. I would expect the > > reason you had such a high majority of responses from jerks is just > > because it wasn't a big deal to most of the affected people to make > > saying anything a priority. Thanks to Jacque for being a representative > > of the more civilized subset of Outlook users on the list. > > > > Since I generally use flags to keep track of messages of interest that I > > want to save or come back to, it was an annoyance to have to clear the > > flag on every one of your messages. Now, I'm afraid, there will be more > > than just yours to deal with...hehe. Anyway, keep it or not...makes no > > difference to me. The fact that I'm fairly certain that more than just > > yours will be sent with the flag set from here on out (Florin's already > > stated as much...) led me to look into the Rules Wizard options, where > > one of the action choices is "Clear message flag". So, knock yourselves > > out guys. > > > > Fact is, I wouldn't mind moving my desktop to Linux, but I'm too attached > > to games like Baldur's Gate, et. al., and for someone with computer > > know-how, even most Microsoft products can be set up to behave decently > > (e.g. to send plain text e-mails) the majority of the time. Of course, > > dual booting is the alternative. Been there, done that, not that fond of > > it. I have a secondary box that has Linux, Win98SE, and Win2k installed > > on it, and rebooting from one OS to the other is just too cumbersome to > > be something I want to have to do on my primary (i.e. most powerful == > > gaming) system. > > > > Thanks, though, for extending my knowledge of the rules wizard...I > > probably would have never needed to know that if not for you! :} > > > > Dan Churchill > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From dave at droyer.org Tue Feb 5 01:23:48 2002 From: dave at droyer.org (Dave Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> References: <3C5EDAC6.FB085593@citilink.com> <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> Message-ID: <1012891355.4085.34.camel@merlin> What settings are you using for your setup? I've got it stuck in Ad-Hoc mode on both ends right now. I just got a couple orinoco cards today after messing around with the D-Link cards for several days. I got the orinoco cards up and running with the orinoco_cs driver with little trouble. My only complaint is that it's running at 2 Mbps right now and I'd like to bump it up if possible. Dave On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 21:40, Jeff Clark wrote: > These cards are configured to use the IBSS mode > (not the Orinoco "Ad-Hoc" mode). > From dave at droyer.org Tue Feb 5 01:26:12 2002 From: dave at droyer.org (Dave Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012891602.4050.36.camel@merlin> Thanks for the info Nate. I found a couple orinoco cards to use for just a little more than what the d-link cards were at so I picked them up and am going to return them soon. I was able to get an PCMCIA->ISA bridge with it as well to help make use of an otherwise idle P133 sitting around here. Dave From j at 4dvfx.com Tue Feb 5 01:28:28 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LILO config question Message-ID: <004701c1a53c$85335840$7e01a8c0@root> I sent this 10 hours ago, and it still hasn't shown up. My apologies if this posts twice. Hello, I'm fairly new to Linux, (and enjoying every moment) and I have a question about the /etc/lilo.conf file. I'm currently running RH 7.1 on an AthlonXP 1700+, and I've read recently and experienced the AGP bug (if it can be called that) when using non Pentium processors. Everyone is saying to give the argument ' mem=nopentium ' to the kernel at boot. My question is where in the lilo.conf file should this be placed exactly? Is there a specific place, or can it go anywhere? Thanks for the help Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/c5293337/attachment.htm From wlayer at attbroadband.com Tue Feb 5 01:29:49 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /dev weirdness: broken link, disappearing ttyUSB In-Reply-To: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020124185947.6a9d89a4.wlayer@attbroadband.com> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:03:53 -0600 Ben Stallings wrote: > Then there's the other unexplained phenomenon in the Bermuda Triangle of my > /dev directory. If I want to hotsync my Handspring Visor, which uses a USB > cradle, I have to manually create /dev/ttyUSB0 and /dev/ttyUSB1 and give them > appropriate rw permissions. Then, after I use them, they disappear. Yeah, and while we're at it, can someone please explain the Mystery of the Changing Permissions in the /dev/ tree of RedHat based systems? Many perms seem to change based on who is logged in on some console / terminal.. like ownership of dsp, mixer and certain disk devices. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Tue Feb 5 01:31:14 2002 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need information for dial on demand Message-ID: <001101c1a53b$960d6bc0$a344a43f@xtratyme.com> Presently our church uses Winroute to access the Internet via a Win2000 box. It is causing a few problems, so I would like to set up a Linux box to replace it. I am using an external Netgear ISDN modem. I need to be able to forward specific ports to another PC, have dial on demand, and auto disconnect after 10 minutes of inactivity. I am going to use RedHat 7.1. I need to know what I would have to enable or add to this box to work for this application. Raymond From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 01:40:26 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <1012851294.3c5ee25eaf046@www.fandre.com> <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <200202050734.g157Ywb01183@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Monday 04 February 2002 4:08 pm, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > I think TCLUG is past the critical mass in membership it needs to > sustain itself. In fact, we're large enough to have our own SIG's. > Take tclug-devel for example. Maybe it is time we address Linux for > Noobeez. ;-) To answer questions covering the points I previously raised: Thanks Chad, this little paragraph also describes my thoughts. I was aware of the monthly meetings but most held in the past were beyond my level of knowledge. I think a SIG for newbies is a good idea. I don't necessarily advocate any sort of "official" relationship to TCPC, but they do seem to have members interested in Linux. If TCLUG can provide a newbie community thats just fine. I would simply hope to provide a single resource for all these people by somehow promoting both TCLUG and TCPC in this "unofficial" endeavor. TCLUG has a well developed community of experienced users and admins. How can we best startup something similar for newbies? And do other members feel it's warrented? As to our legal status I claim no expertise. If others have researched the idea and no benefits arise from changing the position, so be it. I was simply unaware of this outcome. But in the event of an accident or something, is there any liability placed on Real Time (or others) for hosting our group that could be avoided by changing our legal status? This concerns me more than just the "formality" of non-profit status. From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 5 03:00:19 2002 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan A.Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /dev weirdness: broken link, disappearing ttyUSB In-Reply-To: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020124194513.514b5520.jonathankl_2001@yahoo.com> devfs. It's a "known" problem with mandrake 8.1, at least it is around here. Everytime you reboot Mandrake automatically recreates the dev file system based on what devices are pluged in I belive. [Correct me if I'm wrong]. We were able to correct much of the wierdness by monkeying around with the config scripts in /etc. Hope this helps, Jonathan On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:03:53 -0600 Ben Stallings wrote: > A big thankyou to Jay Kline for recommending OSS as a driver for my SiS 7018 > built-in sound. I can now play sound files... but while trying to get audio > CDs to play, I found a very strange problem. > > /dev/cdrom is a broken symbolic link to ../cdroms/cdrom0, which of course > doesn't exist. (/dev/cdrom0, cdrom1, etc. are valid links to > /dev/cdroms/cdrom0, etc., but if I tell CD Player to use one of them instead, > it crashes.) I suspect the OSS installer may have done this.... prior to > installing OSS, I was able to play CDs just fine -- I just wasn't able to > hear them! However, I don't seem to be able to delete the broken link in > order to replace it. rm doesn't give any sort of error message, but it > doesn't delete the link. Is there some other way to delete a file other than > rm as root?? > > Then there's the other unexplained phenomenon in the Bermuda Triangle of my > /dev directory. If I want to hotsync my Handspring Visor, which uses a USB > cradle, I have to manually create /dev/ttyUSB0 and /dev/ttyUSB1 and give them > appropriate rw permissions. Then, after I use them, they disappear. > Sometimes immediately after I use them, sometimes not until I reboot, but > they're always gone by the time I reboot. What's going on there? > > Thanks again for all your help! --Ben (Mandrake 8.1) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 03:33:05 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] really broken .deb In-Reply-To: References: <20020124162549.H7194@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020125075922.62930489.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Tim Wilson wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > > 1) apt-get -f install > > > > 2) dpkg --force-help > > I've tried both of these, but no joy. I've been trying to get my > 'apt-get upgrade' to work and this is what I'm getting: you might try `dpkg --purge --force-all ' -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Rotisserie: A ferris wheel / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ for chickens. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/dafc3849/attachment.pgp From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 03:53:13 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. References: Message-ID: <3C5F4107.70309@ringworld.org> andy@theasis.com wrote: > That's true for anyone. But if you actually have a goal, the reasons for > doing something like this should be evaluated in terms of the results you > actually get, not those you *think* you should get. A ton of pissed off outlook users because I use a header that doesn't mess up anyone elses mail client apperance? Damn, where do I sign up again? -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 03:54:43 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. References: <02020423205300.17685@edith> <200202050012.40469@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> TRIM YOUR NOTES TRIM YOUR NOTES DAMNIT!@!*&!@#@!! Joel Rosenberg wrote: > Note the X-headers in this. . . X-Mailer: the choice of a mailer is a private matter, between a person and a consenting computer. Yeah, until some outlook infestation makes my mailserver: A) run out of space from some totally stupid word document that sircam sent. B) waste bandwidth sending said sircam infestation. I would love to not see this anymore, and I'm allmost thinking about setting up procmailrc rules to limit attachments to something around 3mb (or less) to avoid some of this crap in the future. This isn't a private matter, this is a community problem. Outlook has proven too many times to waste resources on mailservers all over the world. Why should the good netziens stay quiet about a problem that annoys the hell out of them. I'm also thinking of making a confirmation website for those who choose to use outlook to send me mail directly that confirms that this was 'for real and not a virus' for the first email I get from them. It should crack down on half the crap I get in my INBOX thats (STILL!) sircam related. Headers are ok. 15mb word documents from some moron who cant patch their operating system is not. MUA's that lend themselves to 'accidentially' running an executable or script is not. -- Scott Dier From cha.vang at webhelp.com Tue Feb 5 03:56:03 2002 From: cha.vang at webhelp.com (Cha Vang) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE References: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C50AE85.7080603@webhelp.com> How about creating a PKCS#12 file out of our self-generated SSL certificate and have Internet Explorer import the PKCS#12 file. After that, Internet Explorer will have the certification information in the "Trusted Root Certification Authorities" section for all MS products to use. I ran into a similar situation, but only with IMAPS/POPS. This should work with websites also. -Cha Mike Hicks wrote: >Here's a question for the web gurus.. > >What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept an SSL >certificate from a website that has been self-generated and not bought >from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? Mozilla/Netscape will prompt you and ask if >you still want to connect, but IE just decides to stop and prevents the >page from loading (well, I most recently saw it on IE on MacOSX, but I >think it happens on Windows boxes as well). > >Also, for folks at the U -- I've heard that the university has a program >for getting discounted site certificates (not that they're all that >expensive anyway, but I figure I may as well get it cheap if I can).. I'm >afraid I don't even know where to begin looking to purchase a certificate. >Anyone who knows, please e-mail me off-list.. Thanks.. > From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 04:12:07 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need information for dial on demand In-Reply-To: <001101c1a53b$960d6bc0$a344a43f@xtratyme.com>; from ray@lctn.k12.mn.us on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:59:47PM -0600 References: <001101c1a53b$960d6bc0$a344a43f@xtratyme.com> Message-ID: <20020205035334.Y22954@real-time.com> Quoting Raymond Norton (ray@lctn.k12.mn.us): > Presently our church uses Winroute to access the Internet via a Win2000 > box. It is causing a few problems, so I would like to set up a Linux box > to replace it. I am using an external Netgear ISDN modem. I need to > be able to forward specific ports to another PC, have dial on demand, > and auto disconnect after 10 minutes of inactivity. I am going to use > RedHat 7.1. I need to know what I would have to enable or add to this > box to work for this application. > Search google for Linux Dial-on-Demmand HOWTO. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 04:14:51 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <200202050734.g157Ywb01183@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from rahrenstorff@mediaone.net on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:34:27PM -0600 References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <1012851294.3c5ee25eaf046@www.fandre.com> <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> <200202050734.g157Ywb01183@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020205035521.Z22954@real-time.com> Quoting Rodd Ahrenstorff (rahrenstorff@mediaone.net): > > I think TCLUG is past the critical mass in membership it needs to > > sustain itself. In fact, we're large enough to have our own SIG's. > > Take tclug-devel for example. Maybe it is time we address Linux for > > Noobeez. ;-) If we have a newbie group, does that mean we can have a guru-group too? :-) -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 04:17:45 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <20020205032501.GA13703@iucha.net>; from florin@iucha.net on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 09:25:01PM -0600 References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020205032501.GA13703@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020205040214.A22954@real-time.com> Quoting Florin Iucha (florin@iucha.net): > So somebody broke into enchanter.real-time.com? Or is spoofing it? Pretty sure they are spoofing it. Enchanter is pretty well locked down. Feb 4 20:17:37 enchanter sendmail[32026]: g152HWY32026: from=, size=111736, class=0, nrcpts=4, msgid=<200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com>, bodytype=8BITMIME, proto=SMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=dsherman-rt-dsl.real-time.com [208.20.203.226] Something is very whacked on your network. How can the dsl router be an smtp relay? None-the-less: % telnet 208.20.203.226 25 Trying 208.20.203.226... Connected to 208.20.203.226. Escape character is '^]'. 220 sildara.dyndns.org ESMTP Postfix quit 221 Bye Looks like maybe your DSL router got compromised and they setup SMTP port forwarding SMTP traffic? Or you got NAT running on the DSL router with port forwarding? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From bobdove at pipeline.com Tue Feb 5 05:14:33 2002 From: bobdove at pipeline.com (Bob W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> References: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> Message-ID: Clay: The single most helpful aspect of the installfest for me, was having someone (Rob Bill?) who knew enough about what all the various apps were about, to guide me in the expert install (Mandrake 8.1.) Without that "expert" input, we newbies wander about, lost in a sea of cryptically named applications but without a clue as to what to install - even if we *did* have a firm idea of how we were going to use the system. ;-) We blind need a guide at the installfest, or we're stuck with the standard install with all its bloat. Bob W. Anderson >I am looking for few volunteers to give a "Linux Installation" presentation at next month's installfest. I would like to have one of the more experienced members go through an install for the group on the overhead projectors. I'm like to have one session in the morning (11ish) any one in the afternoon (2ish). There will be overhead projectors available. Please let me know if you are interested. > >We also need a few volunteers to help run the "show". I won't be able to make it, so if you've been to a few of these already and would like to help out, let me know. This isn't really too difficult. Mainly answering questions and directing "first-timers" on how things work. > >The internet access will be rather limited, so if anyone has a multi-cd burner, please bring it. > >Thanks. > >-- Clay > > > >- >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 5 05:17:20 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <200201250328.VAA21519@citycenter.citilink.com>; from jclark@citilink.com on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:47:42PM -0600 References: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> <200201250328.VAA21519@citycenter.citilink.com> Message-ID: <20020125102830.A14603@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:47:42PM -0600, Jeff Clark wrote: > In any event, I'm coming to the installfest to help, not to get help, and > I've been wondering what sort of role I might play. I talked to Florin about > this at work yesterday, and he says these things are pretty ad-hoc. Any old > timers care to suggest how I could be of most help at this event? Show up, wander around, look for people who seem confused. "Pretty ad-hoc" is an understatement... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 06:58:27 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020125102830.A14603@sherohman.org> References: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> <200201250328.VAA21519@citycenter.citilink.com> <20020125102830.A14603@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <02020506270000.17792@edith> How about different colored name tags for the "helpers" vs. the "helpees". Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Friday 25 January 2002 10:28, you wrote: > On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:47:42PM -0600, Jeff Clark wrote: > > In any event, I'm coming to the installfest to help, not to get help, and > > I've been wondering what sort of role I might play. I talked to Florin > > about this at work yesterday, and he says these things are pretty ad-hoc. > > Any old timers care to suggest how I could be of most help at this > > event? > > Show up, wander around, look for people who seem confused. "Pretty > ad-hoc" is an understatement... From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 5 07:24:20 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /dev weirdness: broken link, disappearing ttyUSB In-Reply-To: <20020124185947.6a9d89a4.wlayer@attbroadband.com> References: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> <20020124185947.6a9d89a4.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020205131332.GB13703@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:59:47PM -0600, Bill Layer wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:03:53 -0600 > Ben Stallings wrote: > > > Then there's the other unexplained phenomenon in the Bermuda Triangle of > my > /dev directory. If I want to hotsync my Handspring Visor, which uses > a USB > cradle, I have to manually create /dev/ttyUSB0 and /dev/ttyUSB1 > and give them > appropriate rw permissions. Then, after I use them, they > disappear. > > Yeah, and while we're at it, can someone please explain the Mystery of the > Changing Permissions in the /dev/ tree of RedHat based systems? Many perms > seem to change based on who is logged in on some console / terminal.. like > ownership of dsp, mixer and certain disk devices. Well, the user logged on at the console has the default pair of speakers anyway, and presumably is the only one able to use the floppy in the machine. So instead of asking you to add yourself to the proper groups, they are being nice and preparing the environment for you. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/53112d09/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 5 07:25:46 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020205131758.GC13703@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 11:05:37PM -0600, Dan Churchill wrote: > Since I generally use flags to keep track of messages of interest that I > want to save or come back to, it was an annoyance to have to clear the flag > on every one of your messages. Now, I'm afraid, there will be more than > just yours to deal with...hehe. Anyway, keep it or not...makes no > difference to me. The fact that I'm fairly certain that more than just > yours will be sent with the flag set from here on out (Florin's already > stated as much...) led me to look into the Rules Wizard options, where one > of the action choices is "Clear message flag". So, knock yourselves out > guys. If we forced you to learn something, I think we got a positive outcome. florin PS: Russian joke... "If you don't know, we'll teach you. If you can't, we'll help you. If you won't, we'll force you." -- Lenin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/b0b8a240/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 09:12:03 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] totally OT, but still interesting - Nixie clocks In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514CEC@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514CEC@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020205090044.7dfe005f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/nixiegallery.html > > Check these out. I want one. > > Does anyone know a good place in town to buy Nixie tubes? Ideally, I'd like > to build a nixie alarm clock, with an atomic clock receiver in it. Where > would I get such a receiver? I figure it'd just be easier to have a nearby computer synced with NTP, and then use a serial port or something to keep the clock running on time. But then, maybe the radio receiver would be easier to deal with.. I've got a cheap `atomic clock' that I got at Target, though it only manages to sync every few days, and the time drifts off by a second or three every day.. Of course, what do you expect from Target? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Always glad to share my / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ ignorance - I've got \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) plenty. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/69c25e76/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 09:13:29 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: References: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020205090644.3bfd1e91.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Nate Carlson wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > > What do I need to do to convince Internet Explorer to accept an SSL > > certificate from a website that has been self-generated and not bought > > from Verisign, Thawte, etc.? Mozilla/Netscape will prompt you and ask if > > you still want to connect, but IE just decides to stop and prevents the > > page from loading (well, I most recently saw it on IE on MacOSX, but I > > think it happens on Windows boxes as well). > > When the verify box comes up, click View Certificate, the Install > Certificate, next, next, finish, yes, ok, ok, yes. I guess I should mention that the error really reared it's ugly head on a Mac laptop. A dialog box pops up, but it only has one button. I think the message was "The site certificate is invalid," and then there was a red OK or Stop button.. I'm not sure if it's a Mac-specific problem or what.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I took a course in speed / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ waiting. Now I can wait an \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) hour in only ten minutes. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/b8df15c9/attachment.pgp From Ben at Workscited.Net Tue Feb 5 09:31:41 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /dev weirdness: broken link, disappearing ttyUSB In-Reply-To: <1011911671.20109.98.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> <1011911671.20109.98.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202051519.g15FJpS26045@sprite.real-time.com> On Thursday 24 January 2002 16:34, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Are you using devfs? What kernel are you using? I believe I'm using devfs, but I'm not sure how to tell. My kernel appears to be 2.4.8-26. But the ttyUSB problem you quoted has already been resolved in this forum. The unresolved problem is that /dev/cdrom is a broken link that I can't seem to delete. Ideas? --Ben From steveg at transition.com Tue Feb 5 09:33:04 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedbac k wanted. Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC135@postman.transition.com> I'd leave it in. As for anyone suggesting you are having sex with your mother, ban 'em. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@real-time.com] Couple of weeks ago, I put this into my .muttrc my_hdr X-message-flag: Outlook is a breeding ground for viruses. See http://cws.internet.com/mail.html for alternatives This was based on info I read at http://www.rodos.net/outlook/ The end of last week, I got some nasty email from outlook users. The "how dare I mess(!) with their email" type. Ironic. I know I never once flamed an outlook user about mailing me a .doc file or even an html-formatted email. When I did complain, I did it professionally and explained why they should not send MS specific messages (my explaination is attached) So, I changed my outlook hack to just posts to the tclug. Today I got 7 posts from TCLUG members complaining about my outlook hack. 1 (Thanks Jacque) was professional. The other 6 where nasty. To respond to one of the messages, I have never had sexy with my mother. :-P -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Feb 5 09:34:23 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> References: <200202050012.40469@ellegon.com> <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> On Tuesday 05 February 2002 12:49 am, Scott M. Dier wrote: > Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > Note the X-headers in this. . . > > X-Mailer: the choice of a mailer is a private matter, between a person > and a consenting computer. > > Yeah, until some outlook infestation makes my mailserver: > > A) run out of space from some totally stupid word document that sircam > sent. B) waste bandwidth sending said sircam infestation. > Well, both of which are bad, but I think it's more practical, at least in anything but the longest run, to protect yourself by means likely to be more effective than trying to talk people out of using Outlook right now. With all its flaws, it does have features that are not easily reproducible, and it is the standard. > I would love to not see this anymore, and I'm allmost thinking about > setting up procmailrc rules to limit attachments to something around 3mb > (or less) to avoid some of this crap in the future. > Perfectly reasonable, particularly if you add a recipe to check for "Outlook" in the X-Mailer header. You might even want to add a counter, and not permit more than n Outlook messages per day, to avoid being flooded by smaller messages during an Outlook virus outbreak. (If you do one, and get it working, please copy me on it.) > This isn't a private matter, this is a community problem. Outlook has > proven too many times to waste resources on mailservers all over the > world. Why should the good netziens stay quiet about a problem that > annoys the hell out of them. > No reason. On the other hand, making noise about it is unlikely to get the problem solved -- as evidence, take a look at the popularity of Outlook, despite its widely-known vulnerabilities. > I'm also thinking of making a confirmation website for those who choose > to use outlook to send me mail directly that confirms that this was 'for > real and not a virus' for the first email I get from them. It should > crack down on half the crap I get in my INBOX thats (STILL!) sircam > related. > > Headers are ok. 15mb word documents from some moron who cant patch > their operating system is not. MUA's that lend themselves to > 'accidentially' running an executable or script is not. No, they're not okay. The question, I think, is how to solve the problem, and I don't think that even if every non-Outlook user adopted the X-header exploit, it would begin to do it -- the most that would happen, I suspect, is that Microsoft would configure Outlook to filter it out by default. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 5 09:35:44 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] routed Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D58@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I've installed zebra now instead. It has a nice cisco style config format. However, I can't make it broadcast routes at all. Doh... > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@real-time.com] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 8:33 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] routed > > > Quoting Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com): > > Does anyone have any experience configuring routed? > > > > I just need to be able to tell it the following things: > > > > 1. not to listen or advertise on one particular interface > (the public > > interface) > > 2. Not to advertise a particular network (the public one) > > 3. And to force it to advertise the network assigned to the > lo1 interface > > (it's actually a tunnel endpoint), I don't think it will by default > > advertise an address assigned as a loopback. > > > > > > I've tried using mrtd, but RIP support in it sucks, and I > can't make it > > advertise the network used for the tunnel. So, I'm > thinking routed should > > be fine. It's been around forever. > > Been a long time, but I used gated on Solaris. The main point > was gated (under > Solaris at least) support RIPv2, which is what you need if > you are subnetting. > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 09:37:06 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <20020205093011.7e6af8f0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Dave Sherman wrote: > > All, > > I don't know what is going on, but someone or something is using my > email address as the From: header for their emails. I am associated with > the below ministry, and I suspect that the individual may have been > infected by an Outlook virus, but have not been able to contact him yet. Maybe you should start signing your messages with GPG? Then we will know it came from you.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ ^X^C / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/4f271a84/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 5 09:48:29 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Please don't use smoothwall. Among other problems, one of the developers installed a backdoor in it awhile back. After people figured it out, he was kicked out of the development group. 2 weeks later they let him back in because he said someone hacked his machine and put it in acting as him. Even if that is true, if someone can break into his box and put backdoors in smoothwall, it's certainly not something I would use. Read their mailing list archives. Of course, that whole thread may have been removed by Dick Morrell the lead dictator/developer. jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Streit [mailto:jimstreit@northlans.com] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:33 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] intrusion detector > > > was it smoothwall? www.smoothwall.com > > > A while back someone posted a link to a nice intrusion detector > program. It > > had a web interface which displayed attempts, types of attacks, and > > specifically had a screen shot showing nimda attacks. Anyone know > where I > > can find it? > > > > > > Raymond > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 5 09:51:38 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D5C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Try Demarc (demarc.com) It uses snort and has a sweet frontend for analysis and reporting. Much better than ACID. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel T Schneider [mailto:jts@tc.umn.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 5:22 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] intrusion detector > > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 Raymond Norton wrote: > > Message: 10 > > From: "Raymond Norton" > > To: > > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:52:55 -0600 > > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > A while back someone posted a link to a nice intrusion > detector program. It > > had a web interface which displayed attempts, types of attacks, and > > specifically had a screen shot showing nimda attacks. > Anyone know where I > > can find it? > > Among IDS software packages, many people seem to prefer snort: > http://www.snort.org/ If you store the snort output in a database, ACID can generate nice reports for you (better not to run httpd or other services on IDS machine, though): http://acidlab.sourceforge.net/ Snortsnarf is another tool for analyzing snort output: http://www.silicondefense.com/software/snortsnarf/ Other links of potential interest: http://www.prelude-ids.org/ http://www.tripwire.org/ http://www.lids.org/ http://www.psionic.com/ http://www.freshmeat.net/projects/swatch/ http://www.bastille-linux.org/ http://www.cisecurity.org/bench.html http://www.nessus.org/ http://www.iss.net/ http://www.webtrends.com/ http://www.net.tamu.edu/network/tools/tiger.html http://www.intersectalliance.com/projects/Snare/index.html http://www.resentment.org/projects/viperdb/ http://www.chkrootkit.org/ http://www.immunix.org/ http://www.securityfocus.com/ http://www.sans.org/ http://www.linuxsecurity.org/ (Note that I do not presently consider myself a security expert - most of the above links were gleaned from security related conference sessions at the recent LWCE - http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/) Joel _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 5 09:53:31 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020205094601.3a676026.fertch@mninter.net> I have to agree with Andy. While Bob is trying to spread the word of Linux, and allow people to see the shortcomings of MS and their products. My thought is that you "Need" to be professional about it. Even if you word things very carefully, many people take offense at what the message says. I been on both receiving and giving side, as I'm sure most everyone has as well. With Bob, he's kind of in a dangerous situation. He's doing what he feels right by spreading the word of Linux, as well as trying to help out his clients to come to a better solution. However, people take offense at some trivial things like this even with the most carefully of worded e-mails. Or footers of e-mails. I don't know how many of RT's clients are primarily Windows users, but regardless, if he makes them mad at him/RT because of something he puts on an e-mail he loses business. While I still use Windows (about 50% of the time), and I prefer Linux and want to see if prosper, I still take a negative approach to e-mails that spew forth negativiy towards MS in a spiteful manner. If you want me (or clients) to see how much of a better solution Linux is than Windows, try doing something like the following (but keep it short): example of a footer on company e-mail: %company% is a Linux solutions provider. If you would like to see how linux could be a better alternative for you and your company, please check out the following information: http://linux_links.com http://linux_compared_to_windows.com If this has sparked some interest in you, please feel free to inquire... People react negatively towards "forced feeding" of ideas and thoughts. Let them make the decision of whether they want to look into it or not, also allow them to feel like they are making a choice to better themselves or their company. On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:20:54 -0600 (CST) andy@theasis.com wrote: > Many of the people who post to this list make horrible errors in > spelling > and grammar, clearly beyond simple typos. One could claim that English > speakers should be aware of these errors and their effects, and bounce > back mails with commentary on how things should be spelled or worded. Do > you think anyone would be pissed off by that? > > Such presumption puts people off and closes their minds very quickly. > Even > if you try to be polite, people will be offended or otherwise bothered > by > either your choice of words or your attempts to push your message on > them. > If the message is only some word *you* want to promote regardless of > whether someone wants to hear it, then header, attachment, or a whole > mail, then I don't see how it's better than spam. If it really is > important to the recipients, you don't get through to them by pissing > them > off. If you want to make a positive difference you need to get their > attention in a way that they'll respond to in a non-negative way. > > > Personally, Bob can put whatever the hell he wants in his e-mail. If > you > > That's true for anyone. But if you actually have a goal, the reasons for > doing something like this should be evaluated in terms of the results > you > actually get, not those you *think* you should get. > > Andy (a different one) From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 10:27:35 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: This magazine will include. In-Reply-To: <20020205040214.A22954@real-time.com> References: <200202050217.g152HWY32026@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020204203712.E15152@iucha.net> <1012877293.17088.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020205032501.GA13703@iucha.net> <20020205040214.A22954@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1012926200.4036.14.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 04:02, Bob Tanner wrote: > Looks like maybe your DSL router got compromised and they setup SMTP port > forwarding SMTP traffic? > > Or you got NAT running on the DSL router with port forwarding? Yes, I was running postfix, but no more. I wasn't really using it for anything (yet) anyway. And I have disabled port forwarding for the time being -- I can afford to take my server offline for a couple of days to clean up this mess. According to my logs, someone started abusing the mail server on Feb 3rd. Normally, Postfix sends me a daily report of mail processed, but of course I've been so busy the last two days that I didn't bother to read the report -- if I had, I would've seen the large amounts of mail being processed and known right away that something was wrong. "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." Unfortunately, I got somewhat lax in the vigilance department. Tripwire hasn't found anything unusual, so that's good I guess. It looks like it was only my mail server that was compromised. I also manually checked modification dates on ps, etc. just to make sure. I have checked the /dev directory for odd-looking items, but nothing sent up an alarm. I also rebooted, and checked /proc for anything unusual. Is there anything else anyone might recommend to me, besides formatting and reinstalling the system (which I intend to do Real Soon Now (TM) anyway, to upgrade to RH 7.2)? Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/a25c6ef1/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 5 10:46:03 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020204195702.H24846@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:57:02PM -0600 References: <20020204151925.F7182@real-time.com> <20020204223759.GA49640@visi.com> <20020204195702.H24846@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020205102745.D24677@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:57:02PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Call them my subversive advertisments. You seem to be developing quite an expertise in that area... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 10:47:22 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need information for dial on demand In-Reply-To: <20020205035334.Y22954@real-time.com> Message-ID: Last time I did this I use pppd in demand mode. On a Debian system it's pretty simple: add "demand" (without quotes) to /etc/ppp/options mv no_ppp_on_boot ppp_on_boot Restart pppd /etc/init.d/ppp restart Read up on the Dial-on-Demand HOWTO, but I don't think there's much more to it than that. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 5 11:07:24 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feed back wanted. Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D6B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I use Outlook because no email client under linux will handle my mailbox size gracefully (squirrelmail is the only thing that comes close, weird), and I need the scheduling crap to interact with the rest of the company. But, I can still read Bob's messages just fine. And if I couldn't, I would just ignore them. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn Fertch [mailto:fertch@mninter.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:46 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its > backlash; Feedback wanted. > > > I have to agree with Andy. While Bob is trying to spread the word of > Linux, and allow people to see the shortcomings of MS and > their products. > My thought is that you "Need" to be professional about it. > > Even if you word things very carefully, many people take > offense at what > the message says. I been on both receiving and giving side, > as I'm sure > most everyone has as well. > > With Bob, he's kind of in a dangerous situation. He's doing > what he feels > right by spreading the word of Linux, as well as trying to > help out his > clients to come to a better solution. However, people take offense at > some trivial things like this even with the most carefully of worded > e-mails. Or footers of e-mails. I don't know how many of > RT's clients > are primarily Windows users, but regardless, if he makes them mad at > him/RT because of something he puts on an e-mail he loses business. > > While I still use Windows (about 50% of the time), and I > prefer Linux and > want to see if prosper, I still take a negative approach to > e-mails that > spew forth negativiy towards MS in a spiteful manner. If you > want me (or > clients) to see how much of a better solution Linux is than > Windows, try > doing something like the following (but keep it short): > > example of a footer on company e-mail: > > %company% is a Linux solutions provider. If you would like to see how > linux could be a better alternative for you and your company, > please check > out the following information: > http://linux_links.com > http://linux_compared_to_windows.com > If this has sparked some interest in you, please feel free to > inquire... > > People react negatively towards "forced feeding" of ideas and > thoughts. > Let them make the decision of whether they want to look into > it or not, > also allow them to feel like they are making a choice to > better themselves > or their company. > > > > > On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:20:54 -0600 (CST) > andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > Many of the people who post to this list make horrible errors in > > spelling > > and grammar, clearly beyond simple typos. One could claim > that English > > speakers should be aware of these errors and their effects, > and bounce > > back mails with commentary on how things should be spelled > or worded. Do > > you think anyone would be pissed off by that? > > > > Such presumption puts people off and closes their minds > very quickly. > > Even > > if you try to be polite, people will be offended or > otherwise bothered > > by > > either your choice of words or your attempts to push your message on > > them. > > If the message is only some word *you* want to promote regardless of > > whether someone wants to hear it, then header, attachment, > or a whole > > mail, then I don't see how it's better than spam. If it really is > > important to the recipients, you don't get through to them > by pissing > > them > > off. If you want to make a positive difference you need to get their > > attention in a way that they'll respond to in a non-negative way. > > > > > Personally, Bob can put whatever the hell he wants in his > e-mail. If > > you > > > > That's true for anyone. But if you actually have a goal, > the reasons for > > doing something like this should be evaluated in terms of > the results > > you > > actually get, not those you *think* you should get. > > > > Andy (a different one) > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Tue Feb 5 11:09:12 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] security at future installfests Message-ID: <20020205110446.A18243@trammell.dyndns.org> A little googling turned up a couple of suggestions: http://www.sfpcug.org/sig/linux.html http://www.installfest.org/ http://installfest.sourceforge.net/ It seems that many installfests require preregistration and/or picture ID + checkin at the door. Hopefully we can remain "Minnesota" and allow walk-ins. Any ideas? -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 11:26:03 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco 678 disable telnet from outside? Message-ID: <1012929104.4042.28.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Hello everyone, In the process of securing my systems at home: DSL, static IP, Cisco 678. I was told by a Qwest tech that if I set no 'enable' password in the router, then it will automatically disable telnet to the external interface. However, it would seem that this is untrue, because I can telnet into the router's external interface. Anybody know anything about this? Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/5cf94781/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 12:05:03 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] /dev weirdness: broken link, disappearing ttyUSB In-Reply-To: <20020124185947.6a9d89a4.wlayer@attbroadband.com> References: <200201242122.g0OLMs513874@sprite.real-time.com> <20020124185947.6a9d89a4.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020205114627.148d8951.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bill Layer wrote: > > Yeah, and while we're at it, can someone please explain the Mystery of the > Changing Permissions in the /dev/ tree of RedHat based systems? Many perms > seem to change based on who is logged in on some console / terminal.. like > ownership of dsp, mixer and certain disk devices. Yeah, RedHat uses some of the features of PAM to change permissions, depending on where you logged in from. When you're at the console, you can get permission to things like /dev/dsp, the floppy, CD-ROM, etc. IMO, it's better than just using groups to keep track of things, as you could log into a system remotely and start playing (or recording!) sound, even though someone else is at the console. I think it's handled by files in /etc/security/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Double your drive space - / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ delete Windows! \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/d49d19c8/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 5 12:10:10 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco 678 disable telnet from outside? In-Reply-To: <1012929104.4042.28.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <1012929104.4042.28.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <20020205180239.GC9198@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:11:38AM -0600, Dave Sherman wrote: > In the process of securing my systems at home: DSL, static IP, Cisco > 678. > > I was told by a Qwest tech that if I set no 'enable' password in the > router, then it will automatically disable telnet to the external > interface. However, it would seem that this is untrue, because I can > telnet into the router's external interface. Yep. You have to disable telnet from the enabled prompt. ;-) Open up your owner's manual and read the instructions. ;-) IIRC, it's something like "set telnet disable". I would also recommend setting the remote IP as 127.0.0.1, just as an extra precaution. I don't trust Cisco much. The 675/8 series has been known to have problems. I would also do the same for the web interface. Even when the web interface is disabled, your router still tries to answer HTTP requests. Set the web interface remote IP to 127.0.0.1, and the port to something other than 80 or 8080. Also, don't listen to Qwest tech support. They have no clue what they're talking about. You'll rarely find a clueful person there, but when you do, write down their name and extension. Keep it like the treasure it is. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/87c0efea/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 5 12:27:06 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS and domains Message-ID: <20020205121539.014945e7.fertch@mninter.net> I've been working on trying to get a domain up and running. I have it registered through GKG, and I believe it's pointing to the correct servers. Here's where I am trying to accomplish: registers as www.domain.com, and when going to URL pulls up domain's website. Here's what I get: registers as hostx.real-time.com (they're my ISP), when going to my domain's website, it comes up not found. Here's my setup: DSL with block of IP's, DSL-router --> hub --> smoothwall --> internal hub. Also, I have a DMZ coming off of smoothwall that goes to another hub for webservers. Currently, I have my domain pointed to my firewall which has port 80 forwarding to an internal IP. I'm trying to build a DNS server, but I'm a little confused on the different zones. I'm reading the O'Rielly Linux Network Admin book, but it doesn't seem to help too much. Can either somone point me to a little clearer info source, or explain the differences to me? The other questions are: Is it that my domain isn't coming up because I'm only currently doing caching DNS from Smoothwall, or that I'm pointing to the wrong place? Also, is the DMZ supposed to be an internal or external IP address? I'm also planning on running sendmail, but I'll ask further on that when I get these things set up more. I went through the GKG website and a couple of other things, but I couldn't find anything that really gave definate descriptors of how things are supposed to be setup. Either that, or it was above my limited scope of understanding. Thanks for the help, Shawn From estabroo at talkware.net Tue Feb 5 12:28:28 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco 678 disable telnet from outside? References: <1012929104.4042.28.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <3C60233D.3000607@talkware.net> Dave Sherman wrote: > Hello everyone, > > In the process of securing my systems at home: DSL, static IP, Cisco > 678. > > I was told by a Qwest tech that if I set no 'enable' password in the > router, then it will automatically disable telnet to the external > interface. However, it would seem that this is untrue, because I can > telnet into the router's external interface. > > Anybody know anything about this? > > Dave > set your telnet to only be from one ip on the inside set telnet remote ip_addr Eric From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 12:43:27 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco 678 disable telnet from outside? In-Reply-To: <20020205180239.GC9198@wookimus.net> References: <1012929104.4042.28.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020205180239.GC9198@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1012934306.4036.34.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 12:02, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Yep. You have to disable telnet from the enabled prompt. ;-) Open up > your owner's manual and read the instructions. ;-) If only I could *find* my documentation... Maybe I can download it from Cisco... > IIRC, it's something > like "set telnet disable". Got it. Thanks. I would also recommend setting the remote IP > as 127.0.0.1, just as an extra precaution. I don't trust Cisco much. > The 675/8 series has been known to have problems. I would also do the > same for the web interface. Even when the web interface is disabled, > your router still tries to answer HTTP requests. Set the web interface > remote IP to 127.0.0.1, and the port to something other than 80 or 8080. Did this way back when Code Red appeared. > Also, don't listen to Qwest tech support. They have no clue what > they're talking about. You'll rarely find a clueful person there, but > when you do, write down their name and extension. Keep it like the > treasure it is. Yes, so I have discovered. But at the time, he seemed to know what he was talking about, so I left it alone. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/d0aa58a3/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 5 12:44:51 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:33:30 -0600 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > Please don't use smoothwall. Among other problems, one of the > developers > installed a backdoor in it awhile back. After people figured it out, he > was > kicked out of the development group. 2 weeks later they let him back in > because he said someone hacked his machine and put it in acting as him. > Even if that is true, if someone can break into his box and put > backdoors in > smoothwall, it's certainly not something I would use. > > Read their mailing list archives. Of course, that whole thread may have > been removed by Dick Morrell the lead dictator/developer. > > jay Jay, Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you recommend? Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning it sour. It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 kernel. I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to really devote to a project of that tasking. Shawn From leif at mn.rr.com Tue Feb 5 12:53:18 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020125141230.E14603@sherohman.org> Message-ID: Can we use 500,000 volt stun guns? http://www.actionstunguns.com/ -----Original Message----- On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 01:16:58PM -0600, jima wrote: > Riot control? I can handle that. ;) Unfortunately, I think you'll have to provide your own helmet, shield, etc. From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Feb 5 13:08:14 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <02020423205300.17685@edith> References: <02020423205300.17685@edith> Message-ID: <33064.198.74.20.75.1012935382.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Or just use a different e-mail client. > > I suppose you could write the author of Outlook and ask if he would fix > this behavior in your mail program if you find it annoying... did i read this correctly? are you being sarcastic or did you not know that it is short for _Microsoft_ Outlook? -munir From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 13:10:05 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> References: <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <02020512400400.17811@edith> Making noise about it is unlikely to get the problem solved till the pain lies fully in the court of the user! Most of the pain generated to date is by the happy go lucky Lookout users! Kelly Black KB0GBJ > No reason. On the other hand, making noise about it is unlikely to get the > problem solved -- as evidence, take a look at the popularity of Outlook, > despite its widely-known vulnerabilities. From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Tue Feb 5 13:11:22 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <15456.11373.452731.172990@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "SF" == Shawn Fertch writes: SF> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:33:30 -0600 SF> "Austad, Jay" wrote: >> Please don't use smoothwall. Among other problems, one of the >> developers >> installed a backdoor in it awhile back. After people figured it out, he >> was >> kicked out of the development group. 2 weeks later they let him back in >> because he said someone hacked his machine and put it in acting as him. >> Even if that is true, if someone can break into his box and put >> backdoors in >> smoothwall, it's certainly not something I would use. >> >> Read their mailing list archives. Of course, that whole thread may have >> been removed by Dick Morrell the lead dictator/developer. >> >> jay SF> Jay, SF> Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you recommend? SF> Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning it sour. SF> It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 kernel. SF> I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to really SF> devote to a project of that tasking. I've been happily using coyote linux. It's also at the 2.2 kernel level, but seems to work fine for my application (small home network). I considered changing to smoothwall, but coyote was working fine, so never did. If there's a reason why I *shouldn't* be using coyote, I'd be interested to hear.... R From steveg at transition.com Tue Feb 5 13:15:48 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC122@postman.transition.com> I guess you haven't met Jima. Beware the L.A.R.T.. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Sherohman [mailto:esper@sherohman.org] On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 01:16:58PM -0600, jima wrote: > Riot control? I can handle that. ;) Unfortunately, I think you'll have to provide your own helmet, shield, etc. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Feb 5 13:25:05 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <200202051903.g15J38Z30453@linuxserver.northlans.com> Any suggestions on what I should use to replace it? I like how easy it was to setup, and manage. The installation is very small and has a number of nice features. I don't need something that only fits on a floppy, but an installation that is less then 100 megs would be nice, and one that I didn't have to go and pick out unneeded junk. Thanks Jim Streit > Please don't use smoothwall. Among other problems, one of the developers > installed a backdoor in it awhile back. After people figured it out, he was > kicked out of the development group. 2 weeks later they let him back in > because he said someone hacked his machine and put it in acting as him. > Even if that is true, if someone can break into his box and put backdoors in > smoothwall, it's certainly not something I would use. > > Read their mailing list archives. Of course, that whole thread may have > been removed by Dick Morrell the lead dictator/developer. > > jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Streit [mailto:jimstreit@northlans.com] > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:33 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] intrusion detector > > > > > > was it smoothwall? www.smoothwall.com > > > > > A while back someone posted a link to a nice intrusion detector > > program. It > > > had a web interface which displayed attempts, types of attacks, and > > > specifically had a screen shot showing nimda attacks. Anyone know > > where I > > > can find it? > > > > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > > Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 13:26:57 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <02020512502501.17811@edith> Not that you asked me, but I use Iridium Firewall. http://www.karynova.com/iridium/ Still dated 2.2 ipchains, but super simple to configure, and install (just a script to run from rc.local). Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Tuesday 05 February 2002 12:40, you wrote: > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:33:30 -0600 > > "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > Please don't use smoothwall. Among other problems, one of the > > developers > > installed a backdoor in it awhile back. After people figured it out, he > > was > > kicked out of the development group. 2 weeks later they let him back in > > because he said someone hacked his machine and put it in acting as him. > > Even if that is true, if someone can break into his box and put > > backdoors in > > smoothwall, it's certainly not something I would use. > > > > Read their mailing list archives. Of course, that whole thread may have > > been removed by Dick Morrell the lead dictator/developer. > > > > jay > > Jay, > Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you recommend? > Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning it sour. > It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 kernel. > I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to really > devote to a project of that tasking. > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 5 13:30:17 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D77@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I've used coyote, and it works well. Another one to look at is bbiagent (bbiagent.com). It's floppy based, but comes with kernel 2.4 and a web interface. Looks like coyote, but hopped up on goofballs. nanobsd is supposed to be good too. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert P. Goldman [mailto:goldman@htc.honeywell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:03 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] intrusion detector > > > >>>>> "SF" == Shawn Fertch writes: > > SF> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:33:30 -0600 > SF> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > >> Please don't use smoothwall. Among other problems, one of the > >> developers > >> installed a backdoor in it awhile back. After people > figured it out, he > >> was > >> kicked out of the development group. 2 weeks later > they let him back in > >> because he said someone hacked his machine and put it > in acting as him. > >> Even if that is true, if someone can break into his box and put > >> backdoors in > >> smoothwall, it's certainly not something I would use. > >> > >> Read their mailing list archives. Of course, that > whole thread may have > >> been removed by Dick Morrell the lead dictator/developer. > >> > >> jay > > SF> Jay, > SF> Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would > you recommend? > SF> Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall > is turning it sour. > SF> It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up > to the 2.4 kernel. > SF> I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked > the time to really > SF> devote to a project of that tasking. > > I've been happily using coyote linux. It's also at the 2.2 kernel > level, but seems to work fine for my application (small home > network). I considered changing to smoothwall, but coyote was working > fine, so never did. > > If there's a reason why I *shouldn't* be using coyote, I'd be > interested to hear.... > > R > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Feb 5 13:32:40 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <02020512400400.17811@edith> References: <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> <02020512400400.17811@edith> Message-ID: Kelly Black writes: > Making noise about it is unlikely to get the problem solved till the pain lies > fully in the court of the user! Most of the pain generated to date is by > the happy go lucky Lookout users! > Sure. But, let's be realistic about how much good change can be accomplished by being peripherally annoying. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From jima at gimp.damnation.net Tue Feb 5 13:34:23 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020125141230.E14603@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Unfortunately, I think you'll have to provide your own helmet, > shield, etc. I'm not worried. I've done security for LAN parties before. Jima From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Tue Feb 5 13:50:12 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiplayer Online RPG Message-ID: <200201252218.g0PMIP502191@eire> In the past I've taken part in micronations/simulated nations and I want to get into the game again. Is anybody on the list here interested in running a micronation? I want to develop my design skills further and it is good to have a project to work on. Alongside, I want to show that this project can be done on Open Source Software. (PHP, *SQL, Apache, odds and ends) using OSS (Created on Linux, using Linux apps, run on a Linux box) This could be something for the server maniacs and for desktop users. I am thinking it would be best to set up the framework and let those who want actually play 'the game'. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From mike at jentges.net Tue Feb 5 14:24:16 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cisco 678 disable telnet from outside? In-Reply-To: <1012934306.4036.34.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: My experience with these contraptions was that even though I had disabled the web interface I could still telnet to port 80 and take the silly thing down. To resolve this I just changed the 'http port' to 81. Been great ever since.... Just FYI.. -MJ On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 12:02, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Yep. You have to disable telnet from the enabled prompt. ;-) Open up > your owner's manual and read the instructions. ;-) If only I could *find* my documentation... Maybe I can download it from Cisco... > IIRC, it's something > like "set telnet disable". Got it. Thanks. I would also recommend setting the remote IP > as 127.0.0.1, just as an extra precaution. I don't trust Cisco much. > The 675/8 series has been known to have problems. I would also do the > same for the web interface. Even when the web interface is disabled, > your router still tries to answer HTTP requests. Set the web interface > remote IP to 127.0.0.1, and the port to something other than 80 or 8080. Did this way back when Code Red appeared. > Also, don't listen to Qwest tech support. They have no clue what > they're talking about. You'll rarely find a clueful person there, but > when you do, write down their name and extension. Keep it like the > treasure it is. Yes, so I have discovered. But at the time, he seemed to know what he was talking about, so I left it alone. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From rudie at sihope.com Tue Feb 5 14:26:12 2002 From: rudie at sihope.com (K Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202051903.g15J38Z30453@linuxserver.northlans.com> References: <200202051903.g15J38Z30453@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020205141449.317fb216.rudie@sihope.com> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:03:08 -0600 "Jim Streit" wrote: > Any suggestions on what I should use to replace it? > Thanks > Jim Streit > > > Please don't use smoothwall. > > jay > > I would recommend IPCOP http://ipcop.sourceforge.net Based on the smoothwall project, the code base is like 98% smoothwall currently but they are working on a total rewrite. Lots of nice features being planned/added such as stately packet inspection and a journalling filesystem (ext3), a nice 'install and forget' solution. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@sihope.com | rudie@fastcomputers.tv http://fastcomputers.tv MILITANT AGNOSTIC- "I don't know and neither do you!" From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 5 14:27:57 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202051903.g15J38Z30453@linuxserver.northlans.com> References: <200202051903.g15J38Z30453@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020205201939.GF9198@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:03:08PM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > Any suggestions on what I should use to replace it? I like how easy > it was to setup, and manage. The installation is very small and has a > number of nice features. I don't need something that only fits on a > floppy, but an installation that is less then 100 megs would be nice, > and one that I didn't have to go and pick out unneeded junk. The Linux Router Project (LRP) has been one of those defacto standard starting points for many floppy-based firewalls. The LRP website has largely been ignored, and the documentation is far behind what it should be. I'm rather disappointed to find this out. It does look like LRP is getting some development, and there are always the older versions of the software floating about. For example, there's a very successful version codenamed "Dachstein" at http://lrp1.steinkuehler.net This developer seemed to be a bit more proactive about working on LRP than Dave C. seems. Anyway, browse the linux-router email list archives from the main site: http://www.linuxrouter.org -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/0582fc24/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 15:14:07 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <33064.198.74.20.75.1012935382.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <02020423205300.17685@edith> <33064.198.74.20.75.1012935382.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <02020514441900.17849@edith> Oops, I forgot the blocks. I trimmed the post, and dropped something about peeing in the wind, but thought that it was probably not needed. Looking back, I suppose it was. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Tuesday 05 February 2002 12:56, you wrote: > > Or just use a different e-mail client. > > > > I suppose you could write the author of Outlook and ask if he would fix > > this behavior in your mail program if you find it annoying... > > did i read this correctly? are you being sarcastic or did you not know that > it is short for _Microsoft_ Outlook? > > -munir From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 15:15:30 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] self-generated SSL certificates and IE In-Reply-To: <3C50AE85.7080603@webhelp.com> References: <20020123213103.1a02c3ae.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <3C50AE85.7080603@webhelp.com> Message-ID: <1012943107.18312.2.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-24 at 19:01, Cha Vang wrote: > How about creating a PKCS#12 file out of our self-generated SSL > certificate and have Internet Explorer import the PKCS#12 file. After > that, Internet Explorer will have the certification information in the > "Trusted Root Certification Authorities" section for all MS products to > use. I ran into a similar situation, but only with IMAPS/POPS. This > should work with websites also. Does anyone have a link to howto create pkcs#12 files? -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/84b7e0c8/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 15:16:51 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Official TCLUG / TCPC relationship? In-Reply-To: <20020205035521.Z22954@real-time.com> References: <02020208512800.00760@geezer> <1012851294.3c5ee25eaf046@www.fandre.com> <20020204220853.GD14373@wookimus.net> <200202050734.g157Ywb01183@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020205035521.Z22954@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1012943159.18312.4.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:55, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Rodd Ahrenstorff (rahrenstorff@mediaone.net): > > > I think TCLUG is past the critical mass in membership it needs to > > > sustain itself. In fact, we're large enough to have our own SIG's. > > > Take tclug-devel for example. Maybe it is time we address Linux for > > > Noobeez. ;-) > > If we have a newbie group, does that mean we can have a guru-group too? Now you're talking. Good place for the BOF's you and spoke about.... > > :-) > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/875858c5/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 15:18:19 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <02020506270000.17792@edith> References: <20020123145449.GF13215@fandre.com> <200201250328.VAA21519@citycenter.citilink.com> <20020125102830.A14603@sherohman.org> <02020506270000.17792@edith> Message-ID: <1012943305.18312.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 06:27, Kelly Black wrote: > How about different colored name tags for the "helpers" vs. the "helpees". You mean the lack of a confused look isn't enough to distiguish a guru and a newbie? > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > > On Friday 25 January 2002 10:28, you wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:47:42PM -0600, Jeff Clark wrote: > > > In any event, I'm coming to the installfest to help, not to get help, and > > > I've been wondering what sort of role I might play. I talked to Florin > > > about this at work yesterday, and he says these things are pretty ad-hoc. > > > Any old timers care to suggest how I could be of most help at this > > > event? > > > > Show up, wander around, look for people who seem confused. "Pretty > > ad-hoc" is an understatement... > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/fbfd7d0a/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 15:19:40 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] security at future installfests In-Reply-To: <20020205110446.A18243@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <20020205110446.A18243@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1012943528.18312.9.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 11:04, John J. Trammell wrote: > > A little googling turned up a couple of suggestions: If it comes to this i for one won't go to them anymore. I left my laptop lying all over the place, left my bad lie around too, wide open. I kept an eye on my stuff no matter where it was.... Somehow I didn't loose anything. If you don't keep an eye on your stuff, noone else will. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/992daf54/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 5 15:32:03 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiplayer Online RPG In-Reply-To: <200201252218.g0PMIP502191@eire> References: <200201252218.g0PMIP502191@eire> Message-ID: <20020205211539.GG9198@wookimus.net> On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 04:18:23PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > In the past I've taken part in micronations/simulated nations and I > want to get into the game again. Ah, yes. Fun games. Are you thinking along the lines of StarCraft, or more along the lines of Diplomacy? I've been wanting to create a multination space game similar to Stars! or Galaxy that would be fully GPL'ed. Something turn-based that can be run from an email client. ;-) Ah, yes. Command language interpretor. To: Central Computer To: Fleet Commander Asbury Date: Tue 5 January, 2002 Subject: Sheila's Revenge Password: XX$#QHLKJl;kjad---lkjah Begin commands. Set waypoint "Normandy" at current location of fleet "Wolf Pack". Set waypoint "Hellsgate" at moon "Ascheron's Bane" of planet "Ascheron". Assemble fleet "Sheila's Revenge" at base "Sheila II". Add all unassigned fighters. Add two fuel transports. Add five heavy bombers. Add two large troop transports. Load all available troops. Reoutfit all fighters with long-range missiles. Send to waypoint "Normandy" at best fuel efficiency. Merge "Lone Wolf" into fleet. Proceed to waypoint "Hellsgate" at top speed. Wait for stardate 1-1-111 10:00:01. Attack "Ascheron" with battle plan "Kill 'em all". Set fighter default battle plan protect capital ships. Set bomber default battle plan attack surface-to-space planetary defenses. Set battle plan "Kill 'em all". 50% fighters protect capital ships. 20% capital ships attack enemy capital ships. Remaining capital ships attack planetary defenses. 100% bombers attack planetary defenses, power and utility supplies, avoid factories. Troop transports drop troops after surface-to-orbit planetary defenses reduced to 20%. Do not retreat. Request detailed report. End commands. < send email> < receive report > To: Fleet Commander Asbury From: Central Computer Date: Tue 5 January, 2002 Subject: Command Report: Sheila's Revenge Stardate: 12-12-110 12:00:12 Order Processing: Completed Errors: None WAYPOINT COORDINATES SECTOR FLEET(s) Normandy 50.23'11" N 1024 Wolf Pack 40.22'12" W Asteroid's Flip 60.14'45" U Hellsgate 50.23'11" N 1024 Wolf Pack 40.22'12" W Asteroid's Flip 60.14'45" U ... FLEET "Wolf Pack" SHIP FUL ARM SHL CARGO AlphaMale 45 100 200 Fleet orders: "Harass Transports" ... ORDERS "Harass Transports" Of course, games like these get complicated quickly. So, it would be beneficial to have some reasonable default actions and triggers. But basically, I would love to have a game that did not _require_ a GUI to play, but still provided the complexity and challenge in a manner that was easy to understand and use. Email may not be the most expedient of message transports, so a MUD interface to the game would be nice as well, but not my initial goal. The project? Codename "Criterion". Perhaps the command language would be a bit difficult to tackle at first as well. Anyway, I've wasted enough of my day at work here. Time to start installing machines... -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/e43a5827/attachment.pgp From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Tue Feb 5 15:41:54 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying a new sound card Message-ID: <15445.47518.51769.732075@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I was wanting to follow up on an earlier thread --- Best Buy is offering both Creative Soundblaster 512 for $49 and a couple of Phillips' for similar. Any word pro or con on the Phillips boards? Three year warranty seems appealing.... Thanks, R From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 5 15:53:51 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <15456.11373.452731.172990@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> <15456.11373.452731.172990@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020205154151.0a521ed7.fertch@mninter.net> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:03:09 -0600 "Robert P. Goldman" wrote: > SF> Jay, > SF> Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you > recommend? > SF> Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning > it sour. > SF> It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 > kernel. > SF> I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to > really > SF> devote to a project of that tasking. > > I've been happily using coyote linux. It's also at the 2.2 kernel > level, but seems to work fine for my application (small home > network). I considered changing to smoothwall, but coyote was working > fine, so never did. > > If there's a reason why I *shouldn't* be using coyote, I'd be > interested to hear.... One thing that I heard, but don't know the validity/truth to it is that 2.2 kernels have difficulties with IPSEC vpn, where the 2.4 kernel works. I run Smoothwall at home, and I need to VPN into work. I can up PPtP, but I'd have better speed and response using a 28.8 modem running X. I have a hub between my Smoothwall box, and my DSL router (640k) to allow me to VPN in. Unfortunately, I run Win2k for remote stuff for work as I haven't found/figured a viable option to this. Shawn From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 15:56:05 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Jeff Clark wrote: > Not true. I have two Orinoco cards installed in PCMCIA-to-ISA > bridges. One is in a PII-233MHz and the other in a 486-100MHz. > These machines provide a wireless link between my "main floor" and > "basement" subnets, and they both run at 11Mb/s (as long as I keep the > 486 next to the basement window; if I move it behind the wall, the S/N > ratio drops so low that the speed drops down to 5.5Mb/s or even > 2Mb/s). These cards are configured to use the IBSS mode (not the > Orinoco "Ad-Hoc" mode). > > It was a bear to get the kernel and drivers set up and working > correctly, but once I did (and stopped using a flaky Compaq as one end > of the connection), it works just fine. How much do you actually get out of the link? Shouldn't be able to get much more than 6-7mb/s, as the wireless headers suck up the rest.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From leif at mn.rr.com Tue Feb 5 16:10:36 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <20020205141449.317fb216.rudie@sihope.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of K Hinze > > I would recommend IPCOP > > http://ipcop.sourceforge.net > Based on the smoothwall project, the code base is like 98% smoothwall > currently but they are working on a total rewrite. Lots of nice features > being planned/added such as stately packet inspection and a journalling > filesystem (ext3), a nice 'install and forget' solution. ext3 has already been implemented in the current 0.1.1 version. That's the main feature that is differentiating it currently from Smoothwall, though, as you said, when 0.2 comes out it will be completely rewritten with the 2.4 kernel and iptables. IIRC, Mandrake's single network firewall is coming out with their new version 8.1 (I think) literally in the next week or so. The new version will be based on the 2.4 kernel. The current 7.2 version can be found here: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/snf HTH Leif From erik at ehanson.net Tue Feb 5 16:12:09 2002 From: erik at ehanson.net (Erik Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying a new sound card References: <15445.47518.51769.732075@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <3C60562C.8319C0D4@ehanson.net> I tried to use a Phillips card a few months ago, and found that there was not any linux support for it. I don't know if anything has changed, but it would be something to look into. -Erik Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I was wanting to follow up on an earlier thread --- Best Buy is > offering both Creative Soundblaster 512 for $49 and a couple of > Phillips' for similar. Any word pro or con on the Phillips boards? > Three year warranty seems appealing.... > > Thanks, > R > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jspinti at dartdist.com Tue Feb 5 16:29:53 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <00fa01c1ae93$f2d42720$47646496@dart> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Fertch" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] intrusion detector > > Jay, > Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you recommend? > Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning it sour. > It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 kernel. > I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to really > devote to a project of that tasking. > > Shawn I have been using BBIagent (www.bbiagent.net) for over a month, I started on a P100 but have since moved it to a 486/100. It is the 2.4 kernel, floppy based. Very easy to configure. I wrote up a review about a month ago, after Ben mentioned it. Here it is: Ben, Thanks for the link (http://www.bbiagent.net/en/index.html) for the floppy based firewall. My Christmas project (one of several) was to replace my NT based firewall and this one did very nicely. The script based download is nice, but if you are going to use ISA based NICs, make sure you know the IRQ and I/O address, even though they say it can probe, that only works on PCI NICs. The administration is simple and the support via e-mail is amazing. The doco's are pretty thin, so when I sent an e-mail on the evening of the 23rd, I expected to hear sometime today or tomorrow. They replied within 2 hours! The only complaint I have is that it doesn't remember the port forwarding rules or special port blocking on reboot (or if it does, I haven't figured it out yet). It boots very nicely headless and all the admin is via a Java enabled browser on the local network --can't use Konqueror :( It is not https, so if that is a concern to anybody, don't use this one. It does DNS proxy and can be a DHCP server for the local network (I use static, so didn't try it). I am using it with RoadRunner cable and it had no problems getting the IP info. It even tells the length of the lease and renewal time. It will run on anything 386 or better with 8 MB of RAM, but I am running it on a P100 with shared video memory, so it is actually running on 7 MB and according to the stats it still has 400 KB free. I am tempted to dig out that 386 I have lying around, just to see if it will work, but I don't think I have enough memory in it :) It seems to perform well, I only have a 5 node network, but my son does some heavy downloading, and it seemed to hold up under the load. From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Tue Feb 5 16:31:17 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers In-Reply-To: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <200201282201.g0SM1g508003@eire> On Monday 28 January 2002 01:07 pm, you wrote: > i was wondering about the installfest and the call for volunteers, are we > expecting an infusion of newbies? not that i think that volunteering is bad > or that i am complaining, but giving a presentation on how to install > debian or redhat to the lug regulars is like preaching to the choir. > > -munir Well for one, I need preaching to. There must be others there as well. Off Topic slightly. Is the LUG advertising the install fest outside the LUG mailing list? It might attract interested parties. Maybe for future install fests we can invite businesses to try and convince them to make a move towards Linux. If not the Linux User Group, who then? Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 16:32:33 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers In-Reply-To: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <02012815353801.07596@edith> I would like to see a Debian install. As one who side-steps the installers to "fix" what I see as problems with the installation process, I would like to see how it really is supposed to work. If I learn more about how Debian works, I would probably make a good de-bugger for it (and possibly a maintainer of some packages some day). I don't see learning another distributions install tools as simply preaching to the choir. I see it more as giving someone the opportunity to see other tools (and other porting projects to get the nifty neat-o tools ported to other distros). Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 28 January 2002 13:07, you wrote: > i was wondering about the installfest and the call for volunteers, are we > expecting an infusion of newbies? not that i think that volunteering is bad > or that i am complaining, but giving a presentation on how to install > debian or redhat to the lug regulars is like preaching to the choir. > > -munir > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Tue Feb 5 16:40:42 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <20020128200227.GB477@iucha.net> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201281838.g0SIcj507976@sprite.real-time.com> <20020128200227.GB477@iucha.net> Message-ID: <200201282212.g0SMCU508011@eire> Florin, Hey I'd be more than happy to work with people to evangelize Linux to businesses, single users and organizations. Seriously, why talk amongst ourselves over topics that we are in agreement upon (within reason) when we can actually do something about it. I am not a Linux/computer guru by any means. In fact I am living testimony that if I can install Linux anybody can. However, I do want to learn more and the best way to learn more is to teach it to others. Consider this, as Linux makes more gains there is going to be a market for people who help organizations and businesses make the transition from slavery (MSFT) to freedom. I don't think this is in opposition to Open Source philosophically or ethically. The software should be free, but that doesn't mean the services provided have to be. Linux is better than microsoft and Apple, but it won't make a difference if Linux stays in the current desktop margins. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 17:07:30 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:25:07AM -0600 References: <200202050012.40469@ellegon.com> <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020205165654.S24846@real-time.com> Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > Well, both of which are bad, but I think it's more practical, at least in > anything but the longest run, to protect yourself by means likely to be more > effective than trying to talk people out of using Outlook right now. With > all its flaws, it does have features that are not easily reproducible, and it > is the standard. WHOSE standard? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 17:09:52 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:40:00PM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D59@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020205124000.3ca66742.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020205165902.T24846@real-time.com> Quoting Shawn Fertch (fertch@mninter.net): > Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you recommend? > Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning it sour. > It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 kernel. > I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to really > devote to a project of that tasking. Upgrade to Redhat 7.2, check the "high" security on the firewall configuration page and your done. A nessus scan of a default 7.2 install with high security show no vunerabilities. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 17:12:17 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feed back wanted. In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D6B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:49:30AM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D6B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020205170158.U24846@real-time.com> Quoting Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com): > I use Outlook because no email client under linux will handle my mailbox > size gracefully (squirrelmail is the only thing that comes close, weird), > and I need the scheduling crap to interact with the rest of the company. > But, I can still read Bob's messages just fine. And if I couldn't, I would > just ignore them. :) Wow. I've had mutt handle Gb size mailboxes. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 5 17:31:38 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiplayer Online RPG In-Reply-To: <200201252218.g0PMIP502191@eire>; from nassarsa@redconcepts.net on Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 04:18:23PM -0600 References: <200201252218.g0PMIP502191@eire> Message-ID: <20020205172700.A27303@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 04:18:23PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > In the past I've taken part in micronations/simulated nations and I want to > get into the game again. > > Is anybody on the list here interested in running a micronation? Not quite sure what sort of game you mean, but I've just been reminded of a couple of my own barely-started projects which I eventually inteneded to merge into something vaguely resembling an MMORPG... Let me know what, if anything, comes together. Depending on where my project(s) are at, I may well be interested in helping out. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Feb 5 17:47:01 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feed back wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020205170158.U24846@real-time.com> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514D6B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020205170158.U24846@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202051730.2042@ellegon.com> On Tuesday 05 February 2002 05:01 pm, you wrote: > Quoting Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com): > > I use Outlook because no email client under linux will handle my mailbox > > size gracefully (squirrelmail is the only thing that comes close, weird), > > and I need the scheduling crap to interact with the rest of the company. > > But, I can still read Bob's messages just fine. And if I couldn't, I > > would just ignore them. :) > > Wow. I've had mutt handle Gb size mailboxes. I've had Kmail do so, too. Ditto for gnus. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 5 17:48:25 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] security at future installfests In-Reply-To: <1012943528.18312.9.camel@titanium.sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 03:12:08PM -0600 References: <20020205110446.A18243@trammell.dyndns.org> <1012943528.18312.9.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020205173237.B27303@sherohman.org> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 03:12:08PM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > If it comes to this i for one won't go to them anymore. I left my laptop > lying all over the place, left my bad lie around too, wide open. I kept > an eye on my stuff no matter where it was.... > > Somehow I didn't loose anything. Me neither. And my laptop was sitting on the floor in just the right spot that the "free stuff" table got set up on top of it. I checked in on it occasionally, but it was always right where I'd left it. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 5 17:49:48 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] security at future installfests In-Reply-To: <1012943528.18312.9.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <20020205110446.A18243@trammell.dyndns.org> <1012943528.18312.9.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020205234052.GH9198@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 03:12:08PM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > If you don't keep an eye on your stuff, noone else will. I agree. Placing stickers or better yet, engraving your Minnesota Ownership ID No's (see your local Police department) on your equipment would be a good thing, but it should not be a requirement for an InstallFest. Perhaps the size of these referenced InstallFests make it impossible to track even your own equipment (hard to believe). Regardless, if security became a problem, then limiting the size and increasing the frequency of the InstallFest would be a better solution than forcing registration of each piece of equipment. Talk about extremes! -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/102b1b01/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 5 17:51:07 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers In-Reply-To: <02012815353801.07596@edith> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <02012815353801.07596@edith> Message-ID: <20020205234425.GI9198@wookimus.net> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 03:35:38PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > I would like to see a Debian install. As one who side-steps the > installers to "fix" what I see as problems with the installation > process, I would like to see how it really is supposed to work. Then get the floppies and install it. ;-) It's really not that difficult. Sorry if that sounds a bit like a brushoff, rather I simply speak the stark truth. Debian isn't difficult. It's not GUI, but it's not difficult. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/3e067a85/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 18:11:34 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: <1012943305.18312.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: | You mean the lack of a confused look isn't enough to distiguish a guru | and a newbie? Nah, some or us always walk around with a confused look. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 18:12:52 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Messing with SMTP headers and Outlook Message-ID: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> Carl forwarded this to me, so I'm forwarding this to you. :-) http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q1/025865.html In particular... Yes. It's true that I run a mailing list that does not allow posting from Windows users. Many people complain about this, but in my mind I see it as no different than a restaurant or dance hall having a dress code. It raises the bar for entry to the list, and ensures that users really want to be there. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From leif at mn.rr.com Tue Feb 5 18:49:02 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windows security Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I don't know about you guys, but I think this is guy is totally right. We should all ditch Linux today and join the Borg. Let's stop "thinking with our hearts." http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=23985 Leif Hvidsten PGP ID: 0x3626E2CD Key Fingerprint: 21C2 286E 8FAF 25D1 9356 923A 0D05 6DE8 3626 E2CD -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBPGB56w0Fbeg2JuLNEQLW2wCeKJMIegfLKqmftkgvBFJPhcgiuMwAn0yN Uic35W0v8SD8sCh0Dj6J/T83 =qZDS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Feb 5 18:51:02 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box Message-ID: <20020206004144.GC27854@Mail> The poor overlooked box has now been found. Thanks to all that kept their eyes open! Thanks to Jima for the heads up phone call. On the topic of the lug being "ordered" I give two thumbs down. We do alright in our own confusion. -- Spencer Butler Twin Cities Open Systems spencer@tcopensys.org | Open Source Solutions http://tcopensys.org | Every Day Solutions Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/1cc85a9c/attachment.pgp From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Tue Feb 5 19:13:03 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windows security Message-ID: <17b.3281fbc.2991d7fa@cs.com> roflmao -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/c103b427/attachment.html From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 19:14:42 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020205234425.GI9198@wookimus.net> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <02012815353801.07596@edith> <20020205234425.GI9198@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1012957054.6334.3.camel@minime> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 17:44, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 03:35:38PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > > I would like to see a Debian install. > >It's not GUI, but it's > not difficult. > Kelley, aren't you a slackware guy? If so, you have nothing to fear from deb-holio. I agree with chewie, it's _not_ hard. It's pretty straight forward actually. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/5676a53a/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 19:48:29 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020205165654.S24846@real-time.com> References: <200202050012.40469@ellegon.com> <3C5F8089.8010907@ringworld.org> <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> <20020205165654.S24846@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020205193212.1ff9b896.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > Well, both of which are bad, but I think it's more practical, at least in > > anything but the longest run, to protect yourself by means likely to be more > > effective than trying to talk people out of using Outlook right now. With > > all its flaws, it does have features that are not easily reproducible, and it > > is the standard. > > WHOSE standard? Heh, no kidding.. Mail clients are still probably the most diverse application these days.. I suppose the thing that is closest to being a standard is webmail.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ What happens if you put a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ slinky on an escalator? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/7acb6f6e/attachment.pgp From clarson at iaxs.net Tue Feb 5 20:09:05 2002 From: clarson at iaxs.net (Chester Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Set-up Message-ID: <009701c1aeb2$bcc2a890$dc8486d1@S0025453809> CPU Pentium-S Co-Processor Installed CPU Clock 166MHz Cache Memory 256K Cache SRAM Type Sync Base Memory 640K Extended Memory 23552K DRAM Bank 0 Type Standard DRAN Bank 1 Type Standard Can not get Floppy Drive Have CD-ROM Drive Have 2 Hard drives .Don't know what size Screen says disk boot failure Insert sys. disk and press enter Will set-up as Linux only box. Have 2 other boxes. 1 Gateway - Windows. Other dual boot Linux and windows Any help would be appreciated. Chet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/fe3b8e8d/attachment.htm From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 5 20:27:06 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Messing with SMTP headers and Outlook In-Reply-To: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> References: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020206021845.GD13703@iucha.net> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 04:29:51PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Carl forwarded this to me, so I'm forwarding this to you. :-) > > http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q1/025865.html > > In particular... > > Yes. It's true that I run a mailing list that does not allow > posting from Windows users. I just hope it's not TCLUG. > Many people complain about this, but in > my mind I see it as no different than a restaurant or dance hall > having a dress code. It raises the bar for entry to the list, and > ensures that users really want to be there. The bar might be too high for lurkers that want to "feel" the environment before taking the plunge. And somebody who posts a message every other week is a lurker... florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/ec591ac6/attachment.pgp From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Tue Feb 5 20:28:27 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Set-up Message-ID: <10c.c717c2b.2991ec86@cs.com> not bad.....i only have one box and it dual boots with freebsd and windows. unless its an older compaq, you should be able to see the sizes of your hard drive. if its a compaq, that would explain why you cant get a floppy (i used to have a compaq presario 7222 and it was a piece of junk. i think i still have the remains but it dosnt work so i stript it for parts, when the floppy went bad, windows was already gone bad and i didnt like *nix at the time) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/84420249/attachment.htm From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 5 20:29:43 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Set-up In-Reply-To: <009701c1aeb2$bcc2a890$dc8486d1@S0025453809> References: <009701c1aeb2$bcc2a890$dc8486d1@S0025453809> Message-ID: <20020206022135.GE13703@iucha.net> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:04:43PM -0600, Chester Larson wrote: > CPU Pentium-S > Co-Processor Installed > CPU Clock 166MHz > Cache Memory 256K > Cache SRAM Type Sync > Base Memory 640K > Extended Memory 23552K > DRAM Bank 0 Type Standard > DRAN Bank 1 Type Standard > Can not get Floppy Drive > Have CD-ROM Drive > Have 2 Hard drives .Don't know what size > Screen says disk boot failure Insert sys. disk and press enter > > Will set-up as Linux only box. Have 2 other boxes. 1 Gateway - Windows. Other dual boot Linux and windows Get into the BIOS and check where is booting from. The box is recent enough that it should be able to boot from the CD. Make it boot from the CD, and insert installation disk. Follow the prompts :) florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/ce986fe6/attachment.pgp From estabroo at talkware.net Tue Feb 5 20:44:07 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] p5/166 cpu boards for Proliant 2000 Message-ID: <3C6096F3.9020003@talkware.net> I'm looking for cpu boards for a Compaq Proliant 2000. Cheap is good, it's an old machine that I recently inherited. Thanks, Eric From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 21:10:10 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Cisco 678 disable telnet from outside? References: <1012929104.4042.28.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020205180239.GC9198@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3C60301F.7010701@ringworld.org> Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > they're talking about. You'll rarely find a clueful person there, but > when you do, write down their name and extension. Keep it like the > treasure it is. Yeah, and they got rid of their phone bank of people to help you to find someone who will actually help you. :) -- Scott Dier From jclark at citilink.com Tue Feb 5 21:12:57 2002 From: jclark at citilink.com (Jeff Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <1012891355.4085.34.camel@merlin> References: <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> <1012891355.4085.34.camel@merlin> Message-ID: <200202060235.UAA09033@citycenter.citilink.com> On Tuesday 05 February 2002 00:42, you wrote: > What settings are you using for your setup? I've got it stuck in Ad-Hoc > mode on both ends right now. My /etc/pcmcia/config.opts file contains: module "wavelan2_cs" opts "enable_encryption=Y key_1=\"....." create_ibss=Y network_name=\".....\" station_name=tux (The above is on one line in the file; it's line-wrapped in this email.) The /etc/pcmcia/wireless.opts file contains: # Lucent Wavelan IEEE (+ Orinoco, RoamAbout and ELSA) *,*,*,00:60:1D:*|*,*,*,00:02:2D:*) INFO="" ESSID="" MODE="" KEY="" ;; (i.e., there are NO setting for these cards in that file). These are both RH 7.1 systems; you may have to translate files/paths for other distributions. > I just got a couple orinoco cards today after messing around with the > D-Link cards for several days. I got the orinoco cards up and running > with the orinoco_cs driver with little trouble. My only complaint is > that it's running at 2 Mbps right now and I'd like to bump it up if > possible. > > Dave From jclark at citilink.com Tue Feb 5 21:15:13 2002 From: jclark at citilink.com (Jeff Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202060238.UAA09216@citycenter.citilink.com> On Tuesday 05 February 2002 15:44, you wrote: > > How much do you actually get out of the link? I haven't measured it. > Shouldn't be able to get much more than 6-7mb/s, as the wireless headers > suck up the rest.. Yeah, the 11Mb/S figure is the raw link speed (like 10Mb/S for 10BaseT). 6-7Mb/S usable throughput is in line with what I've heard from other sources. Jeff Clark mailto:jclark@citilink.com "Too soon old, too late smart." http://www.citilink.com/~jclark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Microsoft's success proves "You can fool some of the people, all of the time." From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 21:29:40 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020205165654.S24846@real-time.com> References: <200202050917.38883@ellegon.com> <20020205165654.S24846@real-time.com> Message-ID: <02020520583301.17978@edith> Not mine! Show of hands everybody (Or should we have a poll?) I think e-mail client poll already exists? Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Tuesday 05 February 2002 16:56, you wrote: > Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > Well, both of which are bad, but I think it's more practical, at least in > > anything but the longest run, to protect yourself by means likely to be > > more effective than trying to talk people out of using Outlook right now. > > With all its flaws, it does have features that are not easily > > reproducible, and it is the standard. > > WHOSE standard? From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 21:32:02 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers In-Reply-To: <20020205234425.GI9198@wookimus.net> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <02012815353801.07596@edith> <20020205234425.GI9198@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <02020521060402.17978@edith> As one who has felt the stark fist of Debian, I have tried it. I found it to be "simple", yet difficult. Once I saw the sometimes less than helpfull README.Debian files in /usr/local/doc/package directories. Does a package normally give you more pointers to help track down where the config scripts got off to. It seems like a pseudo standard exists to put them in a sub of /etc. P.S. I hate GUI's for installers (I am a Slacker) and would not have it any other way. Always loved the mail from Patrick Volkerding at the end of a Slack install telling ya a few of the "next" task pointers. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Tuesday 05 February 2002 17:44, you wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 03:35:38PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > > I would like to see a Debian install. As one who side-steps the > > installers to "fix" what I see as problems with the installation > > process, I would like to see how it really is supposed to work. > > Then get the floppies and install it. ;-) It's really not that > difficult. Sorry if that sounds a bit like a brushoff, rather I simply > speak the stark truth. Debian isn't difficult. It's not GUI, but it's > not difficult. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 5 21:50:07 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windows security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02020521103504.17978@edith> Thanks, Needed a rant from an idiot like that to get my blood pressure up. I looked for a link to e-mail the guy, but I would have guessed that he is to much of a non-factor flamer to post it on the article. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Tuesday 05 February 2002 18:33, you wrote: > > > I don't know about you guys, but I think this is guy is totally > right. We should all ditch Linux today and join the Borg. Let's > stop "thinking with our hearts." > > > > http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=23985 > > > > Leif Hvidsten From jts at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 5 22:12:03 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202052153.g15LrjS32710@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > The Linux Router Project (LRP) has been one of those defacto standard > starting points for many floppy-based firewalls. The LRP website has > largely been ignored, and the documentation is far behind what it should > be. I'm rather disappointed to find this out. I agree that the web-searchable mailing list archives are probably the most valuable thing on the www.linuxrouter.org site. For information about more recent development activity involving LRP, check out the following. http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ Joel From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 22:13:33 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Messing with SMTP headers and Outlook In-Reply-To: <20020206021845.GD13703@iucha.net> References: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> <20020206021845.GD13703@iucha.net> Message-ID: <1012968317.6780.10.camel@minime> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 20:18, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 04:29:51PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Yes. It's true that I run a mailing list that does not allow > > posting from Windows users. > > I just hope it's not TCLUG. It's not, that was a quote from the link posted. Too bad, wish the lug list was that way. > The bar might be too high for lurkers that want to "feel" the > environment before taking the plunge. And somebody who posts a message > every other week is a lurker... well this is a Linux User Group....... -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/2f416186/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 22:29:02 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers In-Reply-To: <02020521060402.17978@edith> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <02012815353801.07596@edith> <20020205234425.GI9198@wookimus.net> <02020521060402.17978@edith> Message-ID: <1012968734.6334.17.camel@minime> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 21:06, Kelly Black wrote: > As one who has felt the stark fist of Debian, I have tried it. > I found it to be "simple", yet difficult. Once I saw the sometimes less than > helpfull README.Debian files in /usr/local/doc/package directories. Does a > package normally give you more pointers to help track down where the config > scripts got off to. It seems like a pseudo standard exists to put them in a > sub of /etc. debian is very good at adhering to the FHS. Look in /usr/share/doc for docs. "dpkg -L apt" will tell you what files where installed to where for the "apt" package. All this stuff is documented _fairly_ well on debian.org. Also there are boatloads of us who've used it (though some of us have moved on, but still miss certain features of debian from time to time) who can point you in the right direction. Id' think you'd be used to using locate and find to glean the places where files get installed after using slackware..... lord knows thier .tgz format isn't exactly full-featured. > > P.S. I hate GUI's for installers (I am a Slacker) and would not have it any > other way. Always loved the mail from Patrick Volkerding at the end of a > Slack install telling ya a few of the "next" task pointers. Don't be afraid of a GUI because you didn't write it. Give some a try, some are actually usefull! Take for example ethereal. I used tcpdump to snag some packets off a server today. I fed that into ethereal for easy analysis and cross referenced it against my snort logs (viewed via ACID) and was able to ascertain the source of the problem, print the packets to a file for sending to incidents.org. Ethereal is a fantastic GUI app. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/de1249a0/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 22:30:30 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Set-up In-Reply-To: <009701c1aeb2$bcc2a890$dc8486d1@S0025453809> References: <009701c1aeb2$bcc2a890$dc8486d1@S0025453809> Message-ID: <1012968983.6780.22.camel@minime> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 20:04, Chester Larson wrote: > Screen says disk boot failure Insert sys. disk and press enter > Any help would be appreciated. Help with what? That message above? I'd say it needs an OS. Please be more specific with your requests. We can't help without appropriate targets to aim our answers at. Also as a side request, please don't post in HTML format. A fair number of regulars use mail clients that don't support it. It's also considered rude for this very reason, and is quite unnecessary. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/278e12e6/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 5 22:31:48 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very slow Ximian red-carpet Message-ID: <20020205221708.C8108@real-time.com> Anyone willing to represent the TCLUG and (duh!) a Linux Users Group and ask if ftp.mn-linux.org can be a mirror for ximian-gnome? I approached them as Real Time and because we are a business, we where rejected. So I don't want to approach them again, since that would look funny. Anyone? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 22:33:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <200202060235.UAA09033@citycenter.citilink.com> References: <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> <1012891355.4085.34.camel@merlin> <200202060235.UAA09033@citycenter.citilink.com> Message-ID: <1012969209.6780.26.camel@minime> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 20:55, Jeff Clark wrote: I prefer David Hinds pcmcia-cs package for wavlan needs http://pcmcia-cs.sourceforge.net > > I just got a couple orinoco cards today after messing around with the > > D-Link cards for several days. I got the orinoco cards up and running > > with the orinoco_cs driver with little trouble. My only complaint is > > that it's running at 2 Mbps right now and I'd like to bump it up if > > possible. Not _all_ drivers support this. See above. iwconfig will tell you what the rate is set at. also search freshmeat for "wavemom" it's an ncurses app for monitoring radio cards. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/7699362f/attachment.pgp From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Feb 5 22:49:34 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Delaying hd writes In-Reply-To: <20020205221708.C8108@real-time.com> References: <20020205221708.C8108@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202052237.14892@ellegon.com> Is there any obvious way to increase the interval until delayed disk writes are commited? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From churchid at visi.com Tue Feb 5 22:51:47 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS and domains In-Reply-To: <20020205121539.014945e7.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn Fertch > I've been working on trying to get a domain up and running. I have it > registered through GKG, and I believe it's pointing to the correct > servers. Are you certain? The servers that you specify with the domain registration service are DNS servers which contain the records for your domain. That means the DNS servers specified for your domain need to contain the zone info that matches your home's external IP address to your domain name. I only wonder about this because you seem to be trying to set up a DNS server of your own. What you might want to do is get a domain registrar that will take care of the DNS stuff and forward all requests to whatever your external IP address is. I think register.com does this, though I'm not 100% certain of it. Just taking a quick look at gkg.net, with whom I'm unfamiliar, it looks to me like it's just a vanilla domain registrar, not providing a lot of extra services. However, I could be wrong...I didn't actually start the registration process to see what they ask for. > Here's where I am trying to accomplish: registers > as www.domain.com, and when going to URL pulls up domain's website. > Here's what I get: registers as hostx.real-time.com (they're > my ISP), when going to my domain's website, it comes up not found. > Here's my setup: DSL with block of IP's, DSL-router --> hub --> > smoothwall --> internal hub. Also, I have a DMZ coming off of smoothwall > that goes to another hub for webservers. Currently, I have my domain > pointed to my firewall which has port 80 forwarding to an internal IP. This should work for standard http connections. You have a lot of places where you could see problems, though. I'm not familiar with smoothwall at all, but I would suggest taking the firewall out, and trying to access your site then (assuming your DSL router is what's performing the network address translation). If it works, then it's a firewall setup issue. If not, you're going to have more troubleshooting to go. You might find it helpful to telnet to port 80 of your IP address so you can see the responses being generated, if any. > I'm trying to build a DNS server, but I'm a little confused on the > different zones. I'm reading the O'Rielly Linux Network Admin book, but > it doesn't seem to help too much. Can either somone point me to a little > clearer info source, or explain the differences to me? O'Rielly DNS & BIND, latest edition is currently 4 -- the Bible of DNS. It does teach to BIND, which many people tend to put down. Whatever. It is very good at explaining how DNS works in general, and you can take that ino and apply it to whatever DNS server you care to run. > The other questions are: Is it that my domain isn't coming up because > I'm only currently doing caching DNS from Smoothwall, or that I'm pointing > to the wrong place? Assuming that you are trying to serve DNS from your home network, you are going to have to let DNS packets in through the firewall as well. DNS uses mostly udp port 53, but you should also let through tcp port 53. The domain name then needs to have your internet-visible IP address set as one of its nameservers (presumably, you would be primary - I don't know what you could do for a secondary). > Also, is the DMZ supposed to be an internal or > external IP address? In general, you should be able to make either work. > I'm also planning on running sendmail, but I'll ask > further on that when I get these things set up more. > I went through the GKG website and a couple of other things, but I > couldn't find anything that really gave definate descriptors of how things > are supposed to be setup. Either that, or it was above my limited scope > of understanding. In general here, I get the impression that you might be in just a little bit over your head - you seem to know enough to be dangerous, at any rate. Still, if you don't aim high, you don't learn nearly as much. Getting the O'Reilly DNS & Bind book would be the place I recommend you start. Good luck, Dan From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 5 23:10:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very slow Ximian red-carpet In-Reply-To: <20020205221708.C8108@real-time.com> References: <20020205221708.C8108@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1012970960.6334.35.camel@minime> On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 22:17, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone willing to represent the TCLUG and (duh!) a Linux Users Group and ask if > ftp.mn-linux.org can be a mirror for ximian-gnome? I will. > > I approached them as Real Time and because we are a business, we where rejected. > So I don't want to approach them again, since that would look funny. > > Anyone? > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020205/9aec726e/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Feb 5 23:12:49 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <1012969209.6780.26.camel@minime> References: <200202060235.UAA09033@citycenter.citilink.com> <1012969209.6780.26.camel@minime> Message-ID: > Not _all_ drivers support this. See above. iwconfig will tell you what > the rate is set at. also search freshmeat for "wavemom" it's an ncurses > app for monitoring radio cards. Idiotben will lead you in the wrong direction. http://www.jm-music.de/projects.html Is what you are looking for. Unfortunately the AP list is busted at the moment. Maybe they will fix it soon. sheeesh wavemom "Hi mom, I'm waving" -- Spencer Butler Twin Cities Open Systems spencer@tcopensys.org | Open Source Solutions http://tcopensys.org | Every Day Solutions Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 23:22:54 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo makes me giddy like a schoolgirl In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BCF@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Just one question... How is it you know what it's like to be a giddy schoolgirl? :P Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From jack at jacku.com Tue Feb 5 23:24:25 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200201282157.g0SLvI507997@eire> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201281838.g0SIcj507976@sprite.real-time.com> <200201282157.g0SLvI507997@eire> Message-ID: <02012820164700.00764@geezer> On Monday 28 January 2002 15:57, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > > Besides, the 'windows' GUI is not a Microsoft invention by any means. So > why is there all this bruhaha? Microsoft copied Apple's GUI design. It is > not that Microsoft has a superior methodology (snicker) but they realized > that it just works for most users. With slight variation here and there, I > don't see how any GUI is going to be very different. Maybe I am extremely > dense and lacking in imagination, I could entertain that thought. However, > I want to see this GUI that is so radically different and yet acceptable to > most users out there. > Of course you could take this a step further back to Xerox PARC and their prototype systems that Jobs and company copied at Apple. If you do that then the basic GUI design is about 25 years old, almost as old as the micro-computer and Microsoft the company. Attempts to change the metaphor of the desktop have met with mixed (okay mostly disasterous) results. Does anyone remember Microsoft BoB? ;-) We will see new and different metaphors come out of the various labs as we go on. I suspect some will be useful for certain situations, others just "interesting hacks". -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From jima at gimp.damnation.net Tue Feb 5 23:26:12 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <20020206004144.GC27854@Mail> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Spencer Butler wrote: > The poor overlooked box has now been found. Thanks to all that kept > their eyes open! Thanks to Jima for the heads up phone call. You're welcome, but I'd pass those thanks on to Munir (who told me) and Al (who told him). Evidently Al was going to contact you anyway. Update for everyone else: Last I heard, Lorry has her power supply, Munir is making arrangements to get his keyboard, and Spencer is making arrangements to get his computer. Anyone else missing anything? Once again, thank you, Al, for cleaning up after us. Jima (who hopefully will not need to break any fingers) From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Feb 5 23:27:34 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <02020520583301.17978@edith> Message-ID: Ok, I just had to see what outlook did with these headers. You know what I found out? Nothing, nada, zip, zilich. But just maybe it's because I'm getting may via IMAP instead of pop3 or from an exchange server. Ok ewww, I read e-mail using Outlook. Bob, this is all your fault! I gotta go shower now, I feel so dirty... Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From Ross.Perry at ecolab.com Tue Feb 5 23:44:07 2002 From: Ross.Perry at ecolab.com (Perry, Ross) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) [mailto:zibby+tclug@ringworld.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:11 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Ok, I just had to see what outlook did with these headers. You know what I found out? Nothing, nada, zip, zilich. But just maybe it's because I'm getting may via IMAP instead of pop3 or from an exchange server. Ok ewww, I read e-mail using Outlook. Bob, this is all your fault! I gotta go shower now, I feel so dirty... Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From curtis at tcq.net Tue Feb 5 23:51:55 2002 From: curtis at tcq.net (Curtis Merchant) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers, and a LTSP In-Reply-To: <20020129005331.GC5862@fandre.com> References: <64063.198.74.20.77.1012244827.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <20020129005331.GC5862@fandre.com> Message-ID: <200201290238.g0T2cH512658@sprite.real-time.com> I am new to TCLUG (first meeting was January), but I would like to volunteer for the installfest. I have done installs RH 5.2, 6.1 and 7.1. Also have a machine that has evolved from a Mandrake 7.0, 7.1, 8.0 and 8.1. I have done FTP, NFS and even installs with old proprietary SB CDROM drives. IMHO, no installl is complete until you have installed it several times, and had practice using backups. I can always learn something new from the regulars. I have been displaced from my mainframe sys prog (OS/390) position since November, and I have found a temporary volunteer assignment at our private Lutheran school (K-8) setting up a computer lab with about 20 donated Pentium 120MHZ desktops. (48MB, 1GB HD, no CDROM, 10/100 PCI NIC's). I am not sure which direction I can steer the Board of Ed at the school, but I have been working on configuring a Linux terminal server to run X on the free pc's. I am hoping I can leave the PC's intact for the proof of concept with the original win95/98 os's that were left on the PC's and just netboot off a floppy for linux. I have found useful links to http://www.ltsp.org and www.k12ltsp.org for school labs. It is a challenge with the current distro's to make a server fit on 1GB drive. (If I prove it works, they will spend money on the server) There is a outside group coming in the next day or so to offer consulting services. (I don't know if they will suggest an open source solution or follow with a known M$ solution.) The one thing I am certain I can sell the school on is the TCO and the central administration of the 20 pc's in the lab using Linux. I doubt that we know where the licensing issue is with donated PC's. Normally company's pay for OS upgrades and hang on to the original license and "scrub" the drives of any OS and applications before disposing of equipment. Anyway, the plus side to the LTSP server install so far is the school is on a broadband cable internet pilot access for schools in our school district, and I have been able to do net installs without CDROM's. If anyone can provide me with any pointers for this project, or experiences with a Linx Terminal Server (web links, local applications, content filters, proxy setup, firewall, DHCP and Cable routers co-existing, WINE setup with LTSP configurations, Linux end-user presentations, linux in K12 schools, etc.), it would be much appreciated. Thanks. Curtis Merchant curtis@tcq.net On Monday 28 January 2002 06:53 pm, you wrote: > There will always be a lot of newbies at an installfest. I get plenty > of email asking for an installfest because someone is stuck and needs > more hands-on help. Plus even "lug regulars" would probably learn a > thing or two. I know I always pick up a few things everytime I go to > one. > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Wed Feb 6 00:01:06 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box References: Message-ID: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> This is all going like the last 3 minutes of most any TV show; things are turning out well after all. One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? Mark Browne ----- Original Message ----- From: "jima" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] AAA lost box On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Spencer Butler wrote: > The poor overlooked box has now been found. Thanks to all that kept > their eyes open! Thanks to Jima for the heads up phone call. You're welcome, but I'd pass those thanks on to Munir (who told me) and Al (who told him). Evidently Al was going to contact you anyway. Update for everyone else: Last I heard, Lorry has her power supply, Munir is making arrangements to get his keyboard, and Spencer is making arrangements to get his computer. Anyone else missing anything? Once again, thank you, Al, for cleaning up after us. Jima (who hopefully will not need to break any fingers) _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 00:03:52 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Server problems - was: Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201290509.g0T59e508379@eire> What kind of server for the LUG do they need? I mean hardware specs. For sake of reliability it'll use Microsoft Fascist 2000 Advanced Server running $0.02 Prostitute for optimized .NET and .VBS virus dissemination. Back to more serious topic. Really, what kind of hardware is needed? I, for one, would chip in whatever I can to ensure a smooth mailing list without post-dropping. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From tanner at real-time.com Wed Feb 6 00:05:30 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <002601c1a879$d0dae480$6a8be23f@organozakgn1ek>; from drew@usfamily.net on Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 09:53:34PM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BCF@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <200201290157.g0T1vD508325@eire> <000d01c1a870$d44d6510$7e01a8c0@win2k001> <002601c1a879$d0dae480$6a8be23f@organozakgn1ek> Message-ID: <20020128225826.L29795@real-time.com> Quoting Andrew Nemchenko (drew@usfamily.net): > Congratulations its through, although I must agree that it takes a realy > long time, some times around an hour for my post to bounce back to me. More like 40mins. That is how often I process the queue. I can dial-up the processing queue. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 00:29:40 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200201290635.g0T6Zub25154@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201282157.g0SLvI507997@eire> <200201290635.g0T6Zub25154@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <200201290734.g0T7Ym508453@eire> Interesting concept. As an aside; I've been reading 'Information Architecture for the World Wide Web' published by O'Reilly ISBN 1-56592-282-4. It stresses Usability Testing alot. (As do others) I would like to some usability tests done on his concept.... (wishful thinking) I am not trying to be difficult, but why reinvent the wheel? Yes, many concepts should be re-examined and re-tested, but does his system really offer much better results than the folders and files. Oh well, I'll be quiet, it all comes down to prefference. As long as I have the traditional folder/files model alongside the command line I am happy and eventually might learn new things. If Linux GUI's adopt a Scopeware style thingy alongside the current model I ain't misbehaivin'. I guess all I want is options, prefferably co-existing options. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From jack at jacku.com Wed Feb 6 02:49:07 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] imap and gui recommendation In-Reply-To: <002001c1a878$d3953f00$a344a43f@xtratyme.com> References: <002001c1a878$d3953f00$a344a43f@xtratyme.com> Message-ID: <02012906104201.00720@geezer> On Monday 28 January 2002 21:55, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am using sendmail 8.11.x, and would like to implement IMAP with a GUI > interface. Any good free solutions recommended? > > > Raymond Do you want a browser based interface? If so there are a couple of options. If you want a PHP solution the two I know of are Squirelmail and IMP. I've not used either of these but did consider them when OWA was not working at a site I was at last year. If you're interested in a Zope based solution, WorldPilot is still out there. Its a little "stale", in that I don't think any work has been done on it in almost 2 years. Hope this helps. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 02:51:03 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206084627.GJ14636@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:31:34PM -0600, Perry, Ross wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Convenient how the instructions for (un)?subscribing are included in every signature. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/38f5020b/attachment.pgp From leif at mn.rr.com Wed Feb 6 02:52:49 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290832.g0T8WM902170@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Yes, I sent a message at 2:59pm on 1/25 that has never been posted as well. It's subject was "RE: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers" and was just a silly comment so I thought it was just editorally rejected. Leif -----Original Message----- Bob, I hate to naysay you, but I sent 2 messages tonight that did not get posted. If the problem is with my server or with KMail then I'd like to follow through, but since others seem to have similar problems it seems like it is a problem on the mailing list servers. From dutchman at uswest.net Wed Feb 6 04:19:00 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Problems Message-ID: <1012990217.7931.21.camel@ix.norsemen.org> One of my boxes on the network is having extreme difficulty in communicating with the rest of the network. If I do an ifconfig, I see upwards of half of the packets dropped: eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:1744 errors:967 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2462 TX packets:12380 errors:32 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:64 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:288515 (281.7 Kb) TX bytes:16860881 (16.0 Mb) Interrupt:10 Base address:0x8000 Now the network is just four boxes, no DNS, just host files and static IP addresses for three plus one laptop that uses DHCP (which isn't the box that is having problems). My question is: how do I determine if I have a bad network card/driver versus a bad network configuration. I started digging around with some of the network tools to try to diagnose the problem but nothing popped up. However, I am network-challenged in this area and something could be staring me in the face and I wouldn't know it. -- Perry Hoekstra, MS E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Feb 6 04:35:50 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: ; from jima@gimp.damnation.net on Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:18:32PM -0600 References: <20020206004144.GC27854@Mail> Message-ID: <20020206041932.F2520@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:18:32PM -0600, jima wrote: > Update for everyone else: Last I heard, Lorry has her power supply, Munir > is making arrangements to get his keyboard, and Spencer is making > arrangements to get his computer. Great =) > Anyone else missing anything? > Yes, I'm still trying to locate the snow that I dumped out of my system, if anyone locates it please let me know =) > Jima -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 05:39:06 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> Message-ID: <33378.65.25.216.9.1012307964.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Fair enough, but I've only used this account to post. Could there be a > problem on the RedConcepts server that randomly does not send out > email. sure, i have this rule in my exim.conf that says "if /dev/urandom == /dev/urandom do not send mail" -munir > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 05:40:34 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> Message-ID: <33382.65.25.216.9.1012308045.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Fair enough, but I've only used this account to post. Could there be a > problem on the RedConcepts server that randomly does not send out > email. sure, i have this rule in my exim.conf that says "if /dev/urandom == /dev/urandom do not send mail" -munir > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 05:41:50 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> Message-ID: <33383.65.25.216.9.1012308047.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Fair enough, but I've only used this account to post. Could there be a > problem on the RedConcepts server that randomly does not send out > email. sure, i have this rule in my exim.conf that says "if /dev/urandom == /dev/urandom do not send mail" -munir > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 05:43:12 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> Message-ID: <33384.65.25.216.9.1012308129.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > Fair enough, but I've only used this account to post. Could there be a > problem on the RedConcepts server that randomly does not send out > email. sure, i have this rule in my exim.conf that says "if /dev/urandom == /dev/urandom do not send mail" -munir > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nicksteeler12 at cs.com Wed Feb 6 07:08:33 2002 From: nicksteeler12 at cs.com (nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: IGNORE: time test #2 Message-ID: <23D8EF58.7CC4D599.BBB7EE28@cs.com> damn your times are slow....it usually takes me around 3 hours to recive the messages i send...im gunna do a time test Bob Tanner wrote: >Quoting Bob Tanner (tanner@real-time.com): >> Time test #2 >> >> 11:50pm Jan-28-2002 >> > >12:00 Jan-29-2002. > >-- >Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 >http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 >Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nicksteeler12 at cs.com Wed Feb 6 07:11:03 2002 From: nicksteeler12 at cs.com (nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] used computers Message-ID: <538D9BE5.083E886B.BBB7EE28@cs.com> im looking for a used computer with about a 300mhz cpu (p2 or k6-2), 64 megs of ram (or 128megs), 5 gig or larger hard drvie, and i need an agp slot. anyone know a store or a website that i dont need to use a credit card from (i dont have a credit card) that is near new prague or lesuer? thanks, TeRG (nick steele) From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed Feb 6 07:12:16 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290832.g0T8WM902170@localhost.localdomain> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> <20020129011259.B12662@real-time.com> <200201290832.g0T8WM902170@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <15446.44072.406024.696262@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I've also had the experience of message drop. Just yesterday I sent something out that seems to have vanished without a trace. I've just checked and my options ARE set to send me a copy of my postings. I'll start keeping copies of everything I send to see if there's anything in the messages that causes this. R From wilson at isis.visi.com Wed Feb 6 07:21:02 2002 From: wilson at isis.visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Installfest Volunteers, and a LTSP In-Reply-To: <200201290238.g0T2cH512658@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Curtis Merchant wrote: > If anyone can provide me with any pointers for this project, or experiences > with a Linx Terminal Server (web links, local applications, content filters, > proxy setup, firewall, DHCP and Cable routers co-existing, WINE setup with > LTSP configurations, Linux end-user presentations, linux in K12 schools, > etc.), it would be much appreciated. You will find some help with LTSP through the SEUL-edu group (SEUL = Simple End User Linux). The link is http://www.seul.org/edu/ Also check out Schoolforge at http://schoolforge.net/ for discussions and information about using Linux in educational settings. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From jasonj at talkware.net Wed Feb 6 07:22:53 2002 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Multiplayer Online RPG References: <200201252218.g0PMIP502191@eire> Message-ID: <3C612BA5.9040509@talkware.net> I sysadmin for BattleFoundry.net a Gaming ISP in the cities here, I am sure we could host your Online RPG project, it falls right inline with what we do. I actually know of another person that might be interested in helping or working with you if you so desire. Email me offline if you would like to talk details. Samir M. Nassar wrote: >In the past I've taken part in micronations/simulated nations and I want to >get into the game again. > >Is anybody on the list here interested in running a micronation? > >I want to develop my design skills further and it is good to have a project >to work on. > >Alongside, I want to show that this project can be done on Open Source >Software. (PHP, *SQL, Apache, odds and ends) using OSS (Created on Linux, >using Linux apps, run on a Linux box) > >This could be something for the server maniacs and for desktop users. > >I am thinking it would be best to set up the framework and let those who want >actually play 'the game'. > >Samir M. Nassar >RedConcepts.NET >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jasonj at talkware.net Wed Feb 6 07:24:44 2002 From: jasonj at talkware.net (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email to Archive Message-ID: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> The ISP's I sysadmin for want some way to archive all mail going to and coming from our users to customer-care. I was thinking something that just dumps a pop3 account into a database might be enough. I would just add a 'ccdump' account to the 'customer-care' alias and then cron the dump script. But then I have to write a web interface to the database. :( Anyone know any open source stuff that already does this? Suggestions and advice welcome! From kethatwork at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 07:53:36 2002 From: kethatwork at yahoo.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Domino for Linux et al... Message-ID: <20020129142411.54365.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com> Hi - I tried responding to one of these a week ago, and judging by the archives, it never made it (btw, I have a copy of the original post in my sent folder, and never received a bounce notice)... RE C++ API - I saw that there was some discussion on the C++ and C API's and linux on notes.net - you may want to check - but I'm not sure the win2K C++ API will talk properly on a linux box - I think there's even a linux version of the API... Mike Jentges: Notes is only available as a server (aka Domino) on linux - no linux client is avaialbe yet - HOWEVER, depending on the implementation of the db's, it's possible to use a web browser as a client - it takes more work, and will require upgrading any db's that are client-dependant. RE 6.2 vs 7.x - The Lotus Documentation *says* RH 6.2 - which is likely where they've done all of their heavy duty testing - I did get it to work on 7.0 briefly, but the box wasn't buff enough to handle more than proving that it could be done. I haven' tried it with 7.2 *yet* I just need a new box to play with :) Liz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From nicksteeler12 at cs.com Wed Feb 6 07:54:56 2002 From: nicksteeler12 at cs.com (nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [ot][ time test] please ignore Message-ID: <7C19EB6D.0C47088A.BBB7EE28@cs.com> i got it around 8:20 nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: >Bob Tanner's (tanner@real-time.com) times where so much shorter then what i usually get, so i decided to do a test of my own. my clock may be off but i get: >8:01 AM >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 6 08:09:01 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: <02020520583301.17978@edith> Message-ID: <20020206135213.GA26999@iucha.net> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:10:45PM -0600, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Ok, I just had to see what outlook did with these headers. You know what I > found out? Nothing, nada, zip, zilich. But just maybe it's because I'm > getting may via IMAP instead of pop3 or from an exchange server. > > Ok ewww, I read e-mail using Outlook. Bob, this is all your fault! I > gotta go shower now, I feel so dirty... Instead of reading the message inline, double-click on it to open in another window (Yes, I have been to the dark side to check-out the effects - they are worthy :)). florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/9ea60de0/attachment.pgp From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 08:11:22 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Domino for Linux et al... In-Reply-To: <20020129142411.54365.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Please note the time stamp on this note - I just received it now on 2/6/02 at 7:57 am! eek! Liz On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > Hi - I tried responding to one of these a week ago, > and judging by the archives, it never made it (btw, I > have a copy of the original post in my sent folder, > and never received a bounce notice)... > > RE C++ API - I saw that there was some discussion on > the C++ and C API's and linux on notes.net - you may > want to check - but I'm not sure the win2K C++ API > will talk properly on a linux box - I think there's > even a linux version of the API... > > Mike Jentges: Notes is only available as a server (aka > Domino) on linux - no linux client is avaialbe yet - > HOWEVER, depending on the implementation of the db's, > it's possible to use a web browser as a client - it > takes more work, and will require upgrading any db's > that are client-dependant. > > RE 6.2 vs 7.x - The Lotus Documentation *says* RH 6.2 > - which is likely where they've done all of their > heavy duty testing - I did get it to work on 7.0 > briefly, but the box wasn't buff enough to handle more > than proving that it could be done. I haven' tried it > with 7.2 *yet* I just need a new box to play with :) > > Liz > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed Feb 6 08:29:05 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about KDE, CD-ROM Message-ID: <15457.15303.961466.274674@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I just noticed that my kernel log is filling up with messages that look like this: Feb 5 16:11:10 mn65-zippy kernel: VFS: Disk change detected on device ide1(22,0) My understanding is that this happens because a. someone's repeatedly looking at my cdrom and b. my cdrom mistakenly reports a disk change when it's empty. There's been some kernel traffic about this, reporting that the gnome program magicdev does (a), to see if it should automagically mount the cdrom or run some autostart. Alan Cox suggested just removing magicdev. But I'm running KDE. Does anyone have any idea what in KDE might be probing the CDROM all the time? Thanks, R From j at 4dvfx.com Wed Feb 6 08:36:57 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BCF@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <200201290157.g0T1vD508325@eire> <20020128225720.K29795@real-time.com> Message-ID: <006801c1a8d2$ed6a9bf0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> That would have done it. didn't realize which account I was using. pulled my head from the sand though, so I shouldn't have any problems now. Jeff > Quoting Samir M. Nassar (nassarsa@redconcepts.net): > > Is the mailing list slow or do we have a posting limit? Or do my less then > > enlightening posts get trashed? > > If you post from an address not subscribed to the list it will automatically > drop the post. > > I remember seeing a couple of post from you with the from address different then > the address subscribed to the list. > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Feb 6 08:48:03 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <200202061426.g16EQ7f32210@linuxserver.northlans.com> A nessus scan on my smoothwall box also comes up without any vunerabilities. Same as scans from DLSReports and grc. But does that make my smoothwall box any less secure then a generic RH 7.2 high firewall setting box? Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you intrusion detection? Can a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be installed on a machine with only a couple hundred meg drive? Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you site to site VPN support? Can RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be monitored remotly? > Quoting Shawn Fertch (fertch@mninter.net): > > Aside from smoothwall, what other firewall would you recommend? > > Everything that I seem to be reading about Smoothwall is turning it sour. > > It's still at the 2.2 kernel, and I'd like to move up to the 2.4 kernel. > > I tried to build my own firewall, however, I lacked the time to really > > devote to a project of that tasking. > > Upgrade to Redhat 7.2, check the "high" security on the firewall configuration > page and your done. > > A nessus scan of a default 7.2 install with high security show no > vunerabilities. > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 09:11:00 2002 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy>; from markbrowne@mn.mediaone.net on Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:50:07PM -0600 References: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <20020206085351.C27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:50:07PM -0600, Mark Browne wrote: > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? L(user) Attitude Readjustment Tool Anything blunt and heavy will work as a LART. Bowling pins, baseball/softball bats, old SparcStation 2s strapped to a peice of metal piping, etc. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 09:13:15 2002 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email to Archive In-Reply-To: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net>; from jasonj@talkware.net on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:16:29AM -0600 References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20020206090439.D27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:16:29AM -0600, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > The ISP's I sysadmin for want some way to archive all mail going to and > coming from our users to customer-care. > > I was thinking something that just dumps a pop3 account into a database > might be enough. I would just add a 'ccdump' account to the > 'customer-care' alias and then cron the dump script. > > But then I have to write a web interface to the database. :( > > Anyone know any open source stuff that already does this? > > Suggestions and advice welcome! Well, I think this is a job for procmail. Just create a filter that catches email sent To: customer-care, comes From: customer-care, comes From customer-care and/or is Cc: customer-care and puts it all in a 'mailbox'. You can't really filter outgoing emails, so you need to make sure that all emails sent to users are also Cc: customer-care or also sent to cutomer-care so they can be archived. I'd say you either do the above, or you implement some sort of request and/or trouble-ticket system. Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Feb 6 09:15:40 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is in the headers of each and every mail sent to you. I trust you can point and click your way to a tclug-list free inbox. From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 09:16:58 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Mark Browne wrote: > This is all going like the last 3 minutes of most any TV show; things are > turning out well after all. Indeed it is. > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? LART stands for Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool (luser being a combination of "loser" and "user," from my understanding). It's a device typically used by BOFHs (Bastard Operators From Hell[1]) to (ahem) *persuade* people to see things from their point of view. One of my usual LARTs is a nice 2x2 piece of wood, about 30 inches long. Steve knows this, which is why he seemed confident that I could handle security for a calm little installfest. Jima [1] see: http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Feb 6 09:26:11 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: On Tuesday 05 February 2002 11:50 pm, Mark Browne wrote: > This is all going like the last 3 minutes of most any TV show; things are > turning out well after all. > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? > > Mark Browne > If you don't know I can't tell you. secrecy lart came up on the first page of a google search From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Feb 6 09:28:39 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Problems In-Reply-To: <1012990217.7931.21.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1012990217.7931.21.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: On Wednesday 06 February 2002 04:10 am, you wrote: > One of my boxes on the network is having extreme difficulty in > communicating with the rest of the network. If I do an ifconfig, I see > upwards of half of the packets dropped: > > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 > inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:1744 errors:967 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2462 > TX packets:12380 errors:32 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:64 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > RX bytes:288515 (281.7 Kb) TX bytes:16860881 (16.0 Mb) > Interrupt:10 Base address:0x8000 It looks like errors to me > > Now the network is just four boxes, no DNS, just host files and static > IP addresses for three plus one laptop that uses DHCP (which isn't the > box that is having problems). My question is: how do I determine if I > have a bad network card/driver versus a bad network configuration. I I would start by checking/replacing the cables. Then check/replace your hub. Maybe use different ports on your hub. My guess is a bad cable. > started digging around with some of the network tools to try to diagnose > the problem but nothing popped up. However, I am network-challenged in > this area and something could be staring me in the face and I wouldn't > know it. If that gives you no relief then I would say try replacing the NIC in the offending box. And pay attention to the other suggestions that are bound to follow. From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 09:29:55 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's all well and good unless the account happens to be a yahoo account!!! I tried doing the point and click thing and got nowhere in unsubscribing my yahoo account - so I had to put a filter on that box to dump TCLUG messages straight to the trash...:/ Liz On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, SpencerUnderground wrote: > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > List-Help: > List-Post: > List-Subscribe: , > > List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > > This is in the headers of each and every mail sent to you. I trust you can > point and click your way to a tclug-list free inbox. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 09:31:37 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Problems In-Reply-To: <1012990217.7931.21.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1012990217.7931.21.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <1013008870.20328.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 04:10, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > One of my boxes on the network is having extreme difficulty in > communicating with the rest of the network. If I do an ifconfig, I see > upwards of half of the packets dropped: Try changing the following things one at a time in an attempt to discern the problem. Use something like "netperf" to test throughput. Replace the Ethernet Cable Replace the NiC Try different switch ports I recommend swapping each with one from a known good machine and testing each against a third machine. A little hardware info might help as some motheboard + NiC + driver combos are known to be bad. The minimum info needed to help determine possible causes is as follows: Motherboard Make/Model (and chipset if they vary) NiC Make/Model OS / Kernel version and driver used (and wether or not it's a module) Switch or Hub make/model In short, do some hardware swapping, and send more info so we can better help.... > > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 > inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:1744 errors:967 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2462 > TX packets:12380 errors:32 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:64 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > RX bytes:288515 (281.7 Kb) TX bytes:16860881 (16.0 Mb) > Interrupt:10 Base address:0x8000 > > Now the network is just four boxes, no DNS, just host files and static > IP addresses for three plus one laptop that uses DHCP (which isn't the > box that is having problems). My question is: how do I determine if I > have a bad network card/driver versus a bad network configuration. I > started digging around with some of the network tools to try to diagnose > the problem but nothing popped up. However, I am network-challenged in > this area and something could be staring me in the face and I wouldn't > know it. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra, MS > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/bc832501/attachment.pgp From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 09:32:56 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <20020206085351.C27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Gabe Turner wrote: > On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:50:07PM -0600, Mark Browne wrote: > > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? > > L(user) Attitude Readjustment Tool > > Anything blunt and heavy will work as a LART. Bowling pins, > baseball/softball bats, old SparcStation 2s strapped to a peice of metal > piping, etc. Ah, the SS2, AKA "the boat anchor." ;) LARTs don't necessarily *need* to be blunt or heavy, they just tend to be. For example, the PR-24 I had at the installfest is made from polycarbonate; it's quite lightweight. (If you need to ask what a PR-24 is, you probably don't want to know.) Jima From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 09:34:46 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <33378.65.25.216.9.1012307964.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> <33378.65.25.216.9.1012307964.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <1013009063.20328.10.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 06:39, nassarmu@redconcepts.net wrote: > > > Fair enough, but I've only used this account to post. Could there be a > > problem on the RedConcepts server that randomly does not send out > > email. > > sure, i have this rule in my exim.conf that says "if /dev/urandom == > /dev/urandom do not send mail" A good exim filter for samir's incomming mail would be if $h_to matches "nassarsa@redconcepts.net" and $h_from matches "tclug-list@mn-linux.org" then save /dev/null endif ( you can also replace "save /dev/null" with "seen finish" ) > > -munir > > > > Samir M. Nassar > > RedConcepts.NET > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/46e1d58c/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 09:43:27 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <15446.44072.406024.696262@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> <20020129011259.B12662@real-time.com> <200201290832.g0T8WM902170@localhost.localdomain> <15446.44072.406024.696262@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <1013009247.20328.14.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 08:05, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I've also had the experience of message drop. Just yesterday I sent > something out that seems to have vanished without a trace. I've just > checked and my options ARE set to send me a copy of my postings. I'm not seeing message drop, but i am getting posts multiple times. I have received several mails over the last few days from the 24th and 25th of last month. Nearly entire threads at that. Also in this thread I saw the same message from munir 4 time. Each had a different MSGID and timestamp (so that's probably something unrelated i think ) Is anyone else seeing this? > > I'll start keeping copies of everything I send to see if there's > anything in the messages that causes this. > > R > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/ad1aa3b3/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Feb 6 09:45:23 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <20020206135213.GA26999@iucha.net> Message-ID: | Instead of reading the message inline, double-click on it to open in | another window (Yes, I have been to the dark side to check-out the | effects - they are worthy :)). | | florin You made me check my e-mail again in Outlook. :( Anyway, nope. X-Message-Flag: Outlook: where do you want [your files] to go today? Does nothing. Nada, zip. So either reading the message with pine nullifies the thing, or it just isn't a bug when you use Outlook with IMAP. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 09:46:43 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: <20020206084627.GJ14636@wookimus.net> References: <20020206084627.GJ14636@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1013009734.20328.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 02:46, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Convenient how the instructions for (un)?subscribing are included in > every signature. Perhaps he's using a mail user agent that is broken. Or perhaps his ISP's mail server is striping stuff. I'd also like to point out that each and everyone of us has had to go to the mailman sign up page to get subscribed. A little deductive reasoning will tell a reasonably intelligent person that they can check back there for instructions, or even to check the LUG website for a FAQ or links to the mailing list server. All it takes is a little bit of effort and thought. Sometimes however mailman or other errors happen which cause (un)subscriptions to fail. At which point a reasonably intelligent person would again check the aforementioned sources of copious information for a "list admin" link or contact info. At which point a nice polite email detailing your issue and the steps you've taken on your own to resolve the problem. As a list admin myself, i ignore message that say "unsubscribe me from this list" and if they say "you suck! you list sucks! unsubscribe me" their mailing address gets added to my "naughty user" filter so their posts go into the place where the other useless bits go. Those that are adult enough to act like gentleman or ladies often get help from me. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/4f52b8c7/attachment.pgp From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 09:47:57 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, SpencerUnderground wrote: > If you don't know I can't tell you. > > secrecy > > > > lart came up on the first page of a google search > Spencer, I'm going to have to ask you to stop sending HTML emails. A fair number of regulars use mail clients that don't support it. It's also considered rude for this very reason, and is quite unnecessary. If I didn't have a LART, I'd be running by now. :) Jima From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Feb 6 09:49:56 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck Message-ID: I am using kmail today. I started using kmail again because sylpheed will not read the sub-directories of my imap folders, evolution times out on e-mails with no body in the message and mutt just doesn't like email folders created by lookout. So I have a question about kmail. How do I set the "default" account to be something other than the "default" account. It will not let me delete the "default" account. I could always change the contents of the "default" account, but it would still be the default account. I want my default account to be some'n else. I guess I will always want something my MUA can not deliver. *sigh* -- -- Spencer Butler Twin Cities Open Systems spencer@tcopensys.org | Open Source Solutions http://tcopensys.org | Every Day Solutions Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 From steveg at transition.com Wed Feb 6 09:59:15 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC138@postman.transition.com> Yup. -----Original Message----- From: Ben Lutgens [mailto:blutgens@sistina.com] I'm not seeing message drop, but i am getting posts multiple times. I have received several mails over the last few days from the 24th and 25th of last month. Nearly entire threads at that. Also in this thread I saw the same message from munir 4 time. Each had a different MSGID and timestamp (so that's probably something unrelated i think ) Is anyone else seeing this? From natecars at real-time.com Wed Feb 6 10:00:58 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Problems In-Reply-To: <1012990217.7931.21.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: On 6 Feb 2002, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > One of my boxes on the network is having extreme difficulty in > communicating with the rest of the network. If I do an ifconfig, I > see upwards of half of the packets dropped: > > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 > inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:1744 errors:967 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2462 > TX packets:12380 errors:32 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:64 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > RX bytes:288515 (281.7 Kb) TX bytes:16860881 (16.0 Mb) > Interrupt:10 Base address:0x8000 > > Now the network is just four boxes, no DNS, just host files and static > IP addresses for three plus one laptop that uses DHCP (which isn't the > box that is having problems). My question is: how do I determine if I > have a bad network card/driver versus a bad network configuration. I > started digging around with some of the network tools to try to > diagnose the problem but nothing popped up. However, I am > network-challenged in this area and something could be staring me in > the face and I wouldn't know it. Is your network card running in full duplex on a half duplex network? When you see 1/2 of the packets dropped, that's the problem a lot of the times.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Wed Feb 6 10:03:52 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list References: Message-ID: <3C615174.79AD9FE@securecomputing.com> > > List-Unsubscribe: , > > Means you can either use the https:// URL and enter your e-mail in order to unsubscribe. I think you need to remember your password for this. Or, from your yahoo or hotmail account compose a message TO tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org with the SUBJECT unsubscribe That's it. I don't mean to sound like an ass... but c'mon. Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > > That's all well and good unless the account happens to be a yahoo > account!!! I tried doing the point and click thing and got nowhere in > unsubscribing my yahoo account - so I had to put a filter on that box to > dump TCLUG messages straight to the trash...:/ > -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 10:06:38 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email to Archive In-Reply-To: <20020206090439.D27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> <20020206090439.D27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1013010718.20629.42.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 09:04, Gabe Turner wrote: > You can't really filter outgoing emails, so you need to make sure that all > emails sent to users are also Cc: customer-care or also sent to > cutomer-care so they can be archived. This is factually incorrect. I have done this on more than one occaision. I use exim, and I stuck the following in my system.filter #---- snip filter if ${domain:$sender_address} matches "sistina.com" then if${lookup{${lc:$sender_address_local_part}}\ lsearch{/etc/exim/outgoing-filter}{yes}{no}} is "yes" then unseen # DO Stuff here like rewrite headers, save to file etc finish endif #------ end snip So it checks the mail to match criteria (in this case, if the mail is from my domain, and the sender address is listed in the file /etc/exim/outgoing-filter then do stuff there. You then put one local email address per line that you want the filter to apply to like so #--- snip /etc/exim/outgoing-filter blutgens@sistina.com #---- end filter criteria snip and put something like the following where I have the # Do stuff above #---- snip do stuff save /etc/exim/filter-save/${local_part:thisaddress}-archive #---- end snip Or you could slap some embedded perl in there, or yet another custom filter. If your current software won't do what you desire, find something else. If you can't write something else. > I'd say you either do the above, or you implement some sort of request > and/or trouble-ticket system. > > Gabe > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu > SGI Origin Systems Administrator, > University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute > for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/7ea77be5/attachment.pgp From steveg at transition.com Wed Feb 6 10:07:52 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC139@postman.transition.com> While I am familar with what a LART is I have yet to experience being LARTed which happens when lartd runs, typically from xinetd. The lartd daemon stimulates the fight half of the fight or flight response center in the human brain which usually results in enhanced response times and increased strength in the human attached to said brain. Being that lartd usually results in blunt trama to one or more lusers it is almost always used as a last resort, the last resort being postald which has different dependencies that are usually not allowed in the typical workplace. Ok, ok, so Ben isn't the only idiot allowed to post to the list. -----Original Message----- From: jima [mailto:jima@gimp.damnation.net] On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Mark Browne wrote: > This is all going like the last 3 minutes of most any TV show; things are > turning out well after all. Indeed it is. > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? LART stands for Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool (luser being a combination of "loser" and "user," from my understanding). It's a device typically used by BOFHs (Bastard Operators From Hell[1]) to (ahem) *persuade* people to see things from their point of view. One of my usual LARTs is a nice 2x2 piece of wood, about 30 inches long. Steve knows this, which is why he seemed confident that I could handle security for a calm little installfest. Jima [1] see: http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/30/index.html _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 10:09:09 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <20020206085351.C27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> References: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> <20020206085351.C27432@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1013010846.20328.45.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 08:53, Gabe Turner wrote: > On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:50:07PM -0600, Mark Browne wrote: > > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? > > L(user) Attitude Readjustment Tool Someone who speak in such a way as to make a person aware they've done something incredibly stupid without insulting them or being disrespectful is the best LART of all. You can't go to jail for it's use. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/c2ab11bb/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 10:10:52 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: IGNORE: time test #2 In-Reply-To: <23D8EF58.7CC4D599.BBB7EE28@cs.com> References: <23D8EF58.7CC4D599.BBB7EE28@cs.com> Message-ID: <1013010934.20328.47.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 07:56, nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > damn your times are slow....it usually takes me around 3 hours to recive the messages i send...im gunna do a time test > Make sure you're watching the logs on your own box so you know the bottleneck isn't with your server..... Make sure your system time is set correctly. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/a64b791e/attachment.pgp From steveg at transition.com Wed Feb 6 10:12:07 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13A@postman.transition.com> I have noticed that while a flag shows up next to the email in outlook you will not notice anything else different if you are using the preview pane. The mail must be double clicked in order to see the message. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) [mailto:zibby+tclug@ringworld.org] | Instead of reading the message inline, double-click on it to open in | another window (Yes, I have been to the dark side to check-out the | effects - they are worthy :)). | | florin You made me check my e-mail again in Outlook. :( Anyway, nope. X-Message-Flag: Outlook: where do you want [your files] to go today? Does nothing. Nada, zip. So either reading the message with pine nullifies the thing, or it just isn't a bug when you use Outlook with IMAP. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 10:13:25 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email to Archive In-Reply-To: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> Message-ID: <1013010190.20328.32.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 07:16, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > The ISP's I sysadmin for want some way to archive all mail going to and > coming from our users to customer-care. > > I was thinking something that just dumps a pop3 account into a database > might be enough. I would just add a 'ccdump' account to the > 'customer-care' alias and then cron the dump script. I do this for a support list here. I use mailman already so it was trivial. I added another list for the address, subscribed the appropriate people to it. Made it "non-advertised", set the archives to "private", made it post-able by anyone. Then I made the support staff heads the "admins" and briefed them on how to use the interface. They may get some spam, not likely, if they do they work here and already have filters setup to handle the headers I add to mails with spamassassin. Another way would be to setup your mail server to copy all mail to and from certain address to an mbox file, use mhonarc or some such to HTML-ize the archives. Stick said HTML-ized archives in a web directory and protect it somehow ( consult your web server docs for instructions ) The first method requires nearly no additional maintenance on your part (save subscribing and un-subscribing users). The second method would require a few cron jobs to maintain and possibly some rsync action (always over ssh) in the event that your web server has no shared storage with your mail server. > But then I have to write a web interface to the database. :( > > Anyone know any open source stuff that already does this? > > Suggestions and advice welcome! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/1f9d1858/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Feb 6 10:15:38 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Buying a new sound card Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DBE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> www.directron.com has some C-media 8738 based cards for like $12, $26 with SPDIF in/out. http://store.yahoo.com/directron/av5121.html http://store.yahoo.com/directron/av515m.html I have a c-media chip on my Soyo dragon plus, and I have to say that it sounds better than any sound card I've ever owned. 6 channels too. You can use the kernel cmpci driver, or the alsa cmipci driver (supports almost all of the features of the card, including SPDIF) Also, if you're into the SPDIF thing, the Cmedia chips don't mess with your sampling rate. SB cards have traditionally upsampled to 48khz, and back down to 44.1khz before dumping it to the digital out. You can't beat the price. And I would definitely not give up my cmedia chip for a soundblaster. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert P. Goldman [mailto:goldman@htc.honeywell.com] > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:51 PM > To: tclug-list@lists.real-time.com > Subject: [TCLUG] Buying a new sound card > > > > I was wanting to follow up on an earlier thread --- Best Buy is > offering both Creative Soundblaster 512 for $49 and a couple of > Phillips' for similar. Any word pro or con on the Phillips boards? > Three year warranty seems appealing.... > > Thanks, > R > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Wed Feb 6 10:16:57 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: ; from jima@gimp.damnation.net on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:10:50AM -0600 References: <01b301c1aed2$25385ae0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <20020206100242.A32039@trammell.dyndns.org> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:10:50AM -0600, jima wrote: > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Mark Browne wrote: [snip] > > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? [snip] > One of my usual LARTs is a nice 2x2 piece of wood, about 30 inches long. Also known affectionately as a "clue-by-four". :-) -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From steveg at transition.com Wed Feb 6 10:19:48 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Problems Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13B@postman.transition.com> Running full duplex on a half duplex network will typically cause boatloads of collisions. I was thinking the same thing Nate was until I saw a collision count of zero. I am guessing cable, hub/switch port or NIC, just like everyone else. -----Original Message----- From: Nate Carlson [mailto:natecars@real-time.com] On 6 Feb 2002, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > One of my boxes on the network is having extreme difficulty in > communicating with the rest of the network. If I do an ifconfig, I > see upwards of half of the packets dropped: > > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 > inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:1744 errors:967 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2462 > TX packets:12380 errors:32 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:64 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > RX bytes:288515 (281.7 Kb) TX bytes:16860881 (16.0 Mb) > Interrupt:10 Base address:0x8000 > > Now the network is just four boxes, no DNS, just host files and static > IP addresses for three plus one laptop that uses DHCP (which isn't the > box that is having problems). My question is: how do I determine if I > have a bad network card/driver versus a bad network configuration. I > started digging around with some of the network tools to try to > diagnose the problem but nothing popped up. However, I am > network-challenged in this area and something could be staring me in > the face and I wouldn't know it. Is your network card running in full duplex on a half duplex network? When you see 1/2 of the packets dropped, that's the problem a lot of the times.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 10:22:04 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013011642.20328.49.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 09:36, jima wrote: > Spencer, I'm going to have to ask you to stop sending HTML emails. A > fair number of regulars use mail clients that don't support it. It's also > considered rude for this very reason, and is quite unnecessary. > If I didn't have a LART, I'd be running by now. :) ass. It was not an unreasonable request. And it was not in "flame" mode so piss off. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/6cc6d5e9/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 10:23:21 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC138@postman.transition.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC138@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <63100.198.74.20.73.1013011649.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Actually, the multiple posts are unrelated, it was a squirrelmail+smtp problem, it would send and yet it would report not sending anything, i have moved it to use sendmail(exim) shortly afterwards... -munir > Yup. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Lutgens [mailto:blutgens@sistina.com] > > I'm not seeing message drop, but i am getting posts multiple times. I > have received several mails over the last few days from the 24th and > 25th of last month. Nearly entire threads at that. Also in this thread > I saw the same message from munir 4 time. Each had a different MSGID > and timestamp (so that's probably something unrelated i think ) > > Is anyone else seeing this? > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 10:25:47 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206160915.GA22292@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:42:55AM -0600, SpencerUnderground wrote: > I am using kmail today. My condolances. > I started using kmail again because sylpheed will not read the > sub-directories of my imap folders, Do you understand why? Sylpheed was designed as a graphical front-end for mh or nmh, the Rand Mail system. mh was originally designed as a bulletinboard style email system. The format in which mh stores its emails is a separate file for each email numbered in sequence in the directory it is stored. IMAP servers traditionally don't understand this format. Likewise, Sylpheed was not originally designed to read mbox or maildir style email formats. That may have changed in recent months, but IIRC, it wasn't the original intent. Personally, I'd love to make the nmh tools more friendly to other mail formats as well. But that's not really going to happen unless I roll up my sleeves and start coding. > evolution times out on e-mails with no body in the message sends me mail like that *alot*> Ick. > and mutt just doesn't like email folders created by lookout. Huh? You mean the LookOut *.pst files? Sylpheed understands these? Kmail does? Evolution does? Weird. Can you export the folder to a standard mbox format? > So I have a question about kmail. ... Sorry, can't help you there... I use nmh and mutt or sylpheed if I really want GUI. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/378fdb38/attachment.pgp From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 10:28:04 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: <3C615174.79AD9FE@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: I did that exactly that, and got page cannot be displayed EVERY time, even when I could change settings to my shell account perfectly fine. (same password for both, so I didn't forget it). I've actually tried both emailing and clicking through the website. On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > > > List-Unsubscribe: , > > > > > Means you can either use the https:// URL and enter your e-mail in order > to unsubscribe. I think you need to remember your password for this. > Or, from your yahoo or hotmail account compose a message TO > tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org with the SUBJECT unsubscribe > > That's it. I don't mean to sound like an ass... but c'mon. > > Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > > > > That's all well and good unless the account happens to be a yahoo > > account!!! I tried doing the point and click thing and got nowhere in > > unsubscribing my yahoo account - so I had to put a filter on that box to > > dump TCLUG messages straight to the trash...:/ > > > > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 10:29:21 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about KDE, CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <15457.15303.961466.274674@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <15457.15303.961466.274674@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020206161210.GB22292@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:20:55AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > But I'm running KDE. Does anyone have any idea what in KDE might be > probing the CDROM all the time? Yes, KDE has a helper daemon that tries to mount/umount the drives for the user that's logged in. It may be probing the drive when you click on the cdrom icon. It's also possible that you may have a status indicator widget/applet of some kind that's checking these things. Examine the programs that you're running. Kill one for a while. Watch your logs. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/c3577f92/attachment.pgp From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 10:31:45 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: IGNORE: time test #2 In-Reply-To: <1013010934.20328.47.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: On 6 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 07:56, nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > > damn your times are slow....it usually takes me around 3 hours to > > recive the messages i send...im gunna do a time test > > > > Make sure you're watching the logs on your own box so you know the > bottleneck isn't with your server..... Make sure your system time is set > correctly. Y'know, I did a detailed analysis of the times for his test a few days ago, but it hasn't yet cleared the list. Go figure. Jima From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 10:33:10 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: <1013009734.20328.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <20020206084627.GJ14636@wookimus.net> <1013009734.20328.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020206162521.GC22292@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:35:34AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Perhaps he's using a mail user agent that is broken. Perhaps [user] has no deductive skills at all. > Or perhaps his ISP's mail server is striping stuff. I certainly hope not. That would be a bit of a violation of the law, IMHO/IIRC. Regardless, I'm commenting on speculations and therefore adding nothing constructive to this thread. ...back to your regularily scheduled flaming... -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) From list at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 6 10:34:49 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email to Archive In-Reply-To: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20020206163009.F38879060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> What SMTP server do they run? I know postfix has a bcc option you can set that will send a blind copy to another address. You could set it up so that any mail to or from user@domain.com gets sent to user-backup@domain.com, and then would have a POP/IMAP/Local account with all the messages. On Wednesday 06 February 2002 07:16 am, you wrote: > The ISP's I sysadmin for want some way to archive all mail going to and > coming from our users to customer-care. > > I was thinking something that just dumps a pop3 account into a database > might be enough. I would just add a 'ccdump' account to the > 'customer-care' alias and then cron the dump script. > > But then I have to write a web interface to the database. :( > > Anyone know any open source stuff that already does this? > > Suggestions and advice welcome! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 6 10:36:15 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Email to Archive In-Reply-To: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> Message-ID: <02020609545000.18596@edith> Check out Request Tracker. It is a web/email based ticket tracker system. http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 06 February 2002 07:16, you wrote: > The ISP's I sysadmin for want some way to archive all mail going to and > coming from our users to customer-care. > > I was thinking something that just dumps a pop3 account into a database > might be enough. I would just add a 'ccdump' account to the > 'customer-care' alias and then cron the dump script. > > But then I have to write a web interface to the database. :( > > Anyone know any open source stuff that already does this? > > Suggestions and advice welcome! > From steveg at transition.com Wed Feb 6 10:38:26 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13C@postman.transition.com> Who are you, and what have you done to Ben? -----Original Message----- From: Ben Lutgens [mailto:blutgens@sistina.com] On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 08:53, Gabe Turner wrote: > On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:50:07PM -0600, Mark Browne wrote: > > One last item to sort out - what is this L.A.R.T. business? > > L(user) Attitude Readjustment Tool Someone who speak in such a way as to make a person aware they've done something incredibly stupid without insulting them or being disrespectful is the best LART of all. You can't go to jail for it's use. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 10:47:02 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <1013011642.20328.49.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: On 6 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 09:36, jima wrote: > > Spencer, I'm going to have to ask you to stop sending HTML emails. A > > fair number of regulars use mail clients that don't support it. It's also > > considered rude for this very reason, and is quite unnecessary. > > If I didn't have a LART, I'd be running by now. :) > > ass. It was not an unreasonable request. And it was not in "flame" mode > so piss off. Ben, I was ribbing Spencer, not you. Your request for people to not send HTML emails was completely reasonable, and in a polite tone. I simply saw an opportunity to make a joke and I thought your request was phrased well, so I reused it. My apologies if you were offended, but it was a joke. Sheesh. Jima From list at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 6 10:48:29 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206163402.3B3499060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> I hate that. Let me guess, you are on Mandrake, right? For some reason every install of Mandrake I have seen does that to Kmail. What you have to do is edit ~/.kde/share/config/kmailrc You will see an entry for [Account 1], just manually change that to what you want your default account to be. Dont delete it, or you will screw up kmail. But if you put some values in there (even if not the right ones) you can then use Kmail to delete the account and put your own default in. Has anyone else seen this someplace besides Mandrake? Maybe I should submit a bug report.... Jay On Wednesday 06 February 2002 09:42 am, you wrote: > I am using kmail today. I started using kmail again because sylpheed will > not read the sub-directories of my imap folders, evolution times out on > e-mails with no body in the message *alot*> and mutt just doesn't like email folders created by lookout. > So I have a question about kmail. How do I set the "default" account to be > something other than the "default" account. It will not let me delete the > "default" account. I could always change the contents of the "default" > account, but it would still be the default account. I want my default > account to be some'n else. I guess I will always want something my MUA can > not deliver. > *sigh* From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 11:09:05 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <63100.198.74.20.73.1013011649.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC138@postman.transition.com> <63100.198.74.20.73.1013011649.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20020206170630.GD22292@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:07:29AM -0600, nassarmu@redconcepts.net wrote: > Actually, the multiple posts are unrelated, it was a squirrelmail+smtp > problem, it would send and yet it would report not sending anything, i > have moved it to use sendmail(exim) shortly afterwards... Actually, Bob may be able to add a simple procmail filter to stop dups, email with identical "Message-Id:" headers or identical md5sum, being sent to the list with the same filter I use for my owner personal email. procmail-lib includes a dupcheck.rc file written by Alan K. Stebbens. To add the rc file to your procmailrc, all you need to do is: # Test for dupcheck.rc file and the do_dupcheck stamp file :0 * ? test -f dupcheck.rc -a -f do_dupcheck { INCLUDERC=dupcheck.rc } To shut off dupchecking, remove the do_dupcheck file. ;-) The simple form of this has been posted a couple times to the list. Careful, this will throw away email: # Check for duplicate with formail. :0 Wh: msgids.lock * ^Message-Id: *\/[^ ].* | formail -D 16384 .msgids See also procmailex(5), procmailrc(5), formail(1). -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/870b9ce1/attachment.pgp From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 11:16:33 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] *sigh* Message-ID: ok - so now that I've figured out WHY my posts haven't come through I've updated my winternet account to not take digest mails anymore...I'm having problems unsubscribing my yahoo account...even though I can't *send* email to the list, I can and do receive emails *from* the list... The other email address I was using is kethatwork@yahoo.com Thanks! Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 11:17:58 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: more domino for linux (fwd) Message-ID: This had originally been sent from my other account, but for obvious (yahoo) reasons didn't come through... -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Liz Burke-Scovill Subject: more domino for linux Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 06:38:35 -0800 (PST) Size: 2460 Url: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/56279825/attachment.mht From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 11:19:26 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Domino for Linux et al... (fwd) Message-ID: The other message that I'd tried to write from yahoo .. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Liz Burke-Scovill Subject: Domino for Linux et al... Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 06:24:11 -0800 (PST) Size: 1576 Url: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/76e02664/attachment.mht From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 11:30:20 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: <20020206162521.GC22292@wookimus.net> References: <20020206084627.GJ14636@wookimus.net> <1013009734.20328.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <20020206162521.GC22292@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020206171001.GE22292@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:25:21AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:35:34AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Perhaps he's using a mail user agent that is broken. > > Perhaps [user] has no deductive skills at all. Just wanted to note, Liz. This isn't a flame at you for having difficulties. It's just random banter and rant out of context with your problems. I hope you can get your yahoo account unsubscribed. If you're still having problems after given it that "ivy league" try, send email to the list-owner and ask for help. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/7ebbe780/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 11:31:35 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] AAA lost box In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13C@postman.transition.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13C@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <1013015586.20328.60.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 10:21, Steve Grobe wrote: > Who are you, and what have you done to Ben? You're all right, i'm a raving lunatic who's never helped anyone who takes the time to format an intelligible question that shows that person has done some research on their own. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/2c87762e/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 11:32:50 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Problems In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13B@postman.transition.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC13B@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <1013015663.20328.62.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 10:06, Steve Grobe wrote: > Running full duplex on a half duplex network will typically cause boatloads > of collisions. Most drivers are smart enough to Auto-Negotiate that at least to the point of being able to set to 10B on a poor 10/100 switch. > > I was thinking the same thing Nate was until I saw a collision count of > zero. > I am guessing cable, hub/switch port or NIC, just like everyone else. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:natecars@real-time.com] > > On 6 Feb 2002, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > One of my boxes on the network is having extreme difficulty in > > communicating with the rest of the network. If I do an ifconfig, I > > see upwards of half of the packets dropped: > > > > > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 > > inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > > RX packets:1744 errors:967 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:2462 > > TX packets:12380 errors:32 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:64 > > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > > RX bytes:288515 (281.7 Kb) TX bytes:16860881 (16.0 Mb) > > Interrupt:10 Base address:0x8000 > > > > Now the network is just four boxes, no DNS, just host files and static > > IP addresses for three plus one laptop that uses DHCP (which isn't the > > box that is having problems). My question is: how do I determine if I > > have a bad network card/driver versus a bad network configuration. I > > started digging around with some of the network tools to try to > > diagnose the problem but nothing popped up. However, I am > > network-challenged in this area and something could be staring me in > > the face and I wouldn't know it. > > Is your network card running in full duplex on a half duplex network? > > When you see 1/2 of the packets dropped, that's the problem a lot of the > times.. > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/4e86ebb5/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 11:34:08 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <63100.198.74.20.73.1013011649.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC138@postman.transition.com> <63100.198.74.20.73.1013011649.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <1013015711.20328.64.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 10:07, nassarmu@redconcepts.net wrote: > > Actually, the multiple posts are unrelated, it was a squirrelmail+smtp > problem, it would send and yet it would report not sending anything, i have > moved it to use sendmail(exim) shortly afterwards... sendmail != exim http://www.sendmail.org/ http://www.exim.org/ -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/082854e9/attachment.pgp From jts at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 11:35:56 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: <200202061631.g16GV5S18496@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 SpencerUnderground wrote: > I am using kmail today. I started using kmail again because > [...] > and mutt just doesn't like email folders created by lookout. > [...] > I guess I will always want something my MUA can not deliver. > *sigh* If your only basic requirement is the ability to access the same mail folders from both unix and windows, you might want to try dropping lookout and switching to the "Unixmail for Windows" version of mutt (requires Perl and CygWin): http://unixmail-w32.sourceforge.net/ Otherwise, maybe someone will eventually integrate M$ calendaring support with mutt :-( Personal side note: I just recently began switching from Pine to mutt and am very impressed with mutt so far. Haven't yet tried the unixmail-w32 version of mutt, though. Joel From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 11:37:36 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013016050.20629.69.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 10:12, Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > > I did that exactly that, and got page cannot be displayed EVERY time, even > when I could change settings to my shell account perfectly fine. (same > password for both, so I didn't forget it). I've actually tried both > emailing and clicking through the website. As i stated before the proper thing to do is to detail these problems in an email to tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org. As nicely for the mailing list admin to help you. If it appears you've tried several things and they've failed, they'll probably help you. Just before i responded to this i got a mail from an admin at 3ware stating that a former user of his was subscribed to one of my lists and the bounces were getting to him. I promptly removed the user. All you gotta do is ask the right people, the list is not those people. I find it very hard to believe that your browser cannot display the mailman page. Perhaps your the local copy of the SSL pubkey is hosed, or perhaps your security settings. Maybe try another browser? -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/ff1f1ec5/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 11:39:13 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] *sigh* In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013016290.20328.72.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 08:59, Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > ok - so now that I've figured out WHY my posts haven't come through I've > updated my winternet account to not take digest mails anymore...I'm having > problems unsubscribing my yahoo account...even though I can't *send* > email to the list, I can and do receive emails *from* the list... and again, you _should_ be sending these mails to tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org. Only that person can really help you. And a subject of "sigh" is not going to catch that person's eye when posted to the list.... > > The other email address I was using is kethatwork@yahoo.com > > Thanks! > > Liz > > -- > Imagination is intelligence having fun... > e-mail: kethry@winternet.com > URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/a4314577/attachment.pgp From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed Feb 6 11:40:43 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question about KDE, CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <20020206161210.GB22292@wookimus.net> References: <20020206161210.GB22292@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <15457.26413.11947.714249@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "CCW" == Chad C Walstrom writes: CCW> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:20:55AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> But I'm running KDE. Does anyone have any idea what in KDE might be >> probing the CDROM all the time? CCW> Yes, KDE has a helper daemon that tries to mount/umount the drives for CCW> the user that's logged in. It may be probing the drive when you click CCW> on the cdrom icon. It's also possible that you may have a status CCW> indicator widget/applet of some kind that's checking these things. CCW> Examine the programs that you're running. Kill one for a while. Watch CCW> your logs. For those who care, I did figure this out. The villain is autorun. And to find this, I did find .kde -type f -exec fgrep -q autorun {} \; -print That found some stupid desktop file which runs autorun all the time. R From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 11:49:56 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues Message-ID: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> I've got a FreeBSD box that will not keep correct time. When I run ntpdate off my internal time server (that I use to keep all my workstations and internal servers on the same time) it sets the time totally wrong. It's about 23 hours off. I've rerun tzconfig to make sure the time zone is set right. When i run "rdate my.time.server" on this box it spits out the right time, so I know it's speaking to the ntpd on my server just fine. Alas "rdate -s my.time.server" exits cleanly yet my system time is still hosed. The box is FreeBSD 4.3 server that we use as a firewall/NAT box. I've been capturing some packets on it and they all have hosed up time stamps on them, also I think it's kicking squids ass as well.... Any pointers would be greatly appreciated, as nothing has turned up via google, or the FreeBSD mailing lists (which i blatantly refuse to post to) -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/7feb0a48/attachment.pgp From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 11:53:15 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [ot][ time test] please ignore In-Reply-To: <26894C56.241A2E88.BBB7EE28@cs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > Bob Tanner's (tanner@real-time.com) times where so much shorter then > what i usually get, so i decided to do a test of my own. my clock may > be off but i get: > 8:01 AM Okay, I examined the headers from this post to two subscribed addresses. My findings: Hop #1: 14:00:49 14:00:49 air-id09.mx.aol.com Hop #2: 14:00:49 14:00:49 imo-m07.mx.aol.com Hop #3: 14:00:58 14:00:58 sprite.real-time.com Hop #4: 14:09:33 14:09:24 sprite.real-time.com (localhost relay) Hop #5: 14:10:18 14:14:55 my local mail server All times are converted to UTC. Bob's example is correct, it seems. This looks to be not-too-bad, assuming we don't see any more posts from Halloween. ;) Jima From dac at nwc.edu Wed Feb 6 12:01:57 2002 From: dac at nwc.edu (David Cross) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BCF@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020128225720.K29795@real-time.com> <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 28 January 2002 11:45 pm, you wrote: > I remember seeing a couple of post from you with the from address > different then the address subscribed to the list. Fair enough, but I've only used this account to post. Could there be a problem on the RedConcepts server that randomly does not send out email? Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET How could posts show up as from another address if they would be dropped if the address wasn't on the list? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBPFa7ZF1XRtaho3G+EQJ2owCg/lJtyRSiUP/wD6VMx60SV4QLHt0An3gI TwTfJKKEoVOQ19vgAxm0ddos =HYPL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 12:06:15 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: References: <200202061631.g16GV5S18496@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020206174820.GF22292@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:14:50AM -0600, Joel T Schneider wrote: > If your only basic requirement is the ability to access the same mail > folders from both unix and windows, you might want to try dropping lookout > and switching to the "Unixmail for Windows" version of mutt (requires Perl > and CygWin): > > http://unixmail-w32.sourceforge.net/ > > Otherwise, maybe someone will eventually integrate M$ calendaring > support with mutt :-( I actually think it won't be a mutt thing. I could probably piece together a procmail filter to read calendaring messages -- they're just specially formatted email messages (vCal). Just like the autoresponders that I have for giving people information (see my sig), you can trigger programs to parse and incorporate scheduling requests, etc. The only thing that I don't forsee being done is having access to the daemon process on the M$ Exchange server. I don't recall if the protocol is published pubically (I doubt it). I do think the vCal format is published, though. A number of email clients now incorporate support for it. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/2b647f06/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Feb 6 12:08:22 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DCE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Is your clock set to GMT in the BIOS or CST? Run /stand/sysinstall and use the time config stuff there. Make sure you answer the BIOS clock question correctly. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Lutgens [mailto:blutgens@sistina.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 11:43 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues > > > I've got a FreeBSD box that will not keep correct time. When I run > ntpdate off my internal time server (that I use to keep all my > workstations and internal servers on the same time) it sets the time > totally wrong. It's about 23 hours off. I've rerun tzconfig > to make sure > the time zone is set right. When i run "rdate my.time.server" on this > box it spits out the right time, so I know it's speaking to > the ntpd on > my server just fine. Alas "rdate -s my.time.server" exits > cleanly yet my > system time is still hosed. The box is FreeBSD 4.3 server > that we use as > a firewall/NAT box. I've been capturing some packets on it > and they all > have hosed up time stamps on them, also I think it's kicking > squids ass > as well.... > > Any pointers would be greatly appreciated, as nothing has > turned up via > google, or the FreeBSD mailing lists (which i blatantly refuse to post > to) > > -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. > > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D > DC59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 > From kethry at winternet.com Wed Feb 6 12:10:29 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: <1013016050.20629.69.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: > I find it very hard to believe that your browser cannot display the > mailman page. Perhaps your the local copy of the SSL pubkey is hosed, or > perhaps your security settings. Maybe try another browser? Oh, I understand - these things happened *last week* and a number of the letters that I wrote then are coming through today, so it seems like I'm more upset than I really am...sorry about that..but nothing I can do about emails sent a week ago. Not to press the point, but the only time I had trouble was when trying to access the yahoo account settings. Had no problems using SSL when accessing my winternet account settings...*chuckle* it'll get resolved shortly. I'd mostly forgotten it all by now until I saw last week's mail, since I had everything hitting the trash folder until I had time to deal with it and find out more if it's something on my end or not. (I'd worked 55+ hours plus a vacation day getting an xml transformation taken care of for work)... Thanks! Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 12:12:31 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [ot][ time test] please ignore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, jima wrote: > Bob's example is correct, it seems. This looks to be not-too-bad, > assuming we don't see any more posts from Halloween. ;) Okay, correct aside from the emails that occasionally take eight days to clear the list. ;) I do have to say that the list has been positively zippy today, and I'm noticing that a lot of trapped emails are coming unstuck. So I can't complain. Jima From mjn at umn.edu Wed Feb 6 12:14:22 2002 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... Message-ID: I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... I am dumb. -- ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com ____________________________ Recursive: Adj. See Recursive. From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 12:28:13 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: References: <1013016050.20629.69.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020206122044.A20662@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:00:18PM -0600, Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > > I find it very hard to believe that your browser cannot display the > > mailman page. Perhaps your the local copy of the SSL pubkey is hosed, or > > perhaps your security settings. Maybe try another browser? > > Not to press the point, but the only time I had trouble was when trying to > access the yahoo account settings. Had no problems using SSL when > accessing my winternet account settings...*chuckle* it'll get resolved > shortly. It probably is a browser SSL problem. IIRC, the certificates for TCLUG aren't totally kosher. Whenever I access the SSL pages I get warning messages about the certificate domain and server domain not matching (the server being mn-linux.org, but the certificate being for real-time.com). Anyway, other than the warning messages it worked fine for me with mozilla, so another browser might work. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Feb 6 12:29:33 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, mjn wrote: > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... It doesn't work anymore because the FTP process has replaced all the CR characters (ASCII 13) with CRLF (ASCII 13 ASCII 10). You can try running a utility that'll replace all the CRLFs with just a CR, but there might've been some legitimate CRLF combinations in there. In other words, re-upload the file. -Yaron -- From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 12:31:50 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, David Cross wrote: > How could posts show up as from another address if they would be dropped if > the address wasn't on the list? Because Bob only started rejecting posts from non-subscribed posts a few weeks ago. Before that they would be presented to him and he could approve or reject them. This became too much of a hassle, so he changed the configuration to automatically reject them, instead. He warned us about this beforehand. http://archives2.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2002-January/021785.html Jima From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 12:33:21 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206122539.B20662@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 09:16:31AM -0600, mjn wrote: > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... ASCII mode has a tendency to mess up binary files. The only solution I know to this problem is to re-upload the file in binary mode and to avoid ASCII unless you are sure that you have ASCII files. Transferring ASCII files in binary mode won't hurt them (though you may have issues with ^Ms at the end of lines is your transferring between different OS families), but binary files in ASCII mode is poison. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From dante at plethora.net Wed Feb 6 12:45:06 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, mjn wrote: > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... > Redownload it in binary mode. There is no _reliable_ way to fix it once it has been through the ascii mash. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 12:46:34 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DCE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DCE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <1013020741.20629.88.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 11:58, Austad, Jay wrote: > Is your clock set to GMT in the BIOS or CST? Run /stand/sysinstall and use > the time config stuff there. Make sure you answer the BIOS clock question > correctly. Hrm.... Guess I never thought of that. It doesn't seem to matter what you tell the BIOS in linux. I'll have to shut that pig down this weekend and check that out. thanks. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/5e20e5e7/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 6 12:47:56 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206184035.GB26999@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:22:25PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, mjn wrote: > > > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... > > It doesn't work anymore because the FTP process has replaced all the CR > characters (ASCII 13) with CRLF (ASCII 13 ASCII 10). Actually it's more insidious: it cleared the 8th bit. And you can't fix it. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/5ec4a5ec/attachment.pgp From nate at techie.com Wed Feb 6 12:49:17 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206184225.GA4195@candle.dhs.org> On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 09:16:31AM -0600, mjn wrote: > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... It may not work, but you need to convert all of the CR/LF to CR. You could try to use sed to do this, but I don't remember the command line. Nate From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 12:51:15 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013021039.20629.94.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 09:16, mjn wrote: > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... Please populate your subject: lines with information related to the content of the mail. It'll help you as much as it will help the rest of the group. Many of us get boatloads of mail and we scan subjects and only read those posts of interest or when we think we may be able to help with the problem. A good subject in this case would be: Subject: OT: Hard time accessing file on novell share The "OT" at the front means "Off Topic" since, this is a linux related list, messages about novell ftp services are definitely off-topic. You can still post them because there's a good chance there's a novell-wizard on the list. HTH > > I am dumb. Watch out, the last time I called myself an idiot it became a nickname that nearly everyone in the LUG knows me by. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/07d2bfc4/attachment.pgp From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed Feb 6 13:12:09 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting Feb 7th Message-ID: Hey y'all- Beer meeting. Tomorrow. Barley John's. Be there. http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting Jacque From john at schererzoo.com Wed Feb 6 13:13:38 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: <02020609545000.18596@edith> References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> <02020609545000.18596@edith> Message-ID: <1013021633.4611.67.camel@elgato> 1st I would love to help out setting up the installfest networks, keep me informed. Now, heres my thought: I have a Linux box setup as a router, with 4 Ethernet cards installed (I can add a few more if needed) that we could use for other installfests. I also have a few 10/100 Ethernet switches I could bring. The router can run DHCP, FTP, HTTPD, etc... My thought was having the router be the InstallNET backbone, with one 10/100 enet drop to each switch. one switch per table. Then if they need more drops at a table than the switch has available, they just add a hub/switch to the existing switch at the table (under InstallFest NetAdmin supervision) This setup would help debug network problems as well. We would easily be able to tell what enet port the problem is originating from and isolate the problem if necessary. This could also be a learning tool for others to learn from. As an installfest NetAdmin you could use this as a teaching tool to help educate others with more advanced aspects of networking. PS: Someone though of adding something to the nametags at future installfests to identify those who are ?helpers? or ?admins?, great idea. I did the nametags you saw at the past weekends fest, and could add other info to the tags if desired. I would just need to know who and what. Any thought? -John From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 13:15:08 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: <20020206184225.GA4195@candle.dhs.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Nate Straz wrote: > On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 09:16:31AM -0600, mjn wrote: > > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... > > It may not work, but you need to convert all of the CR/LF to CR. You > could try to use sed to do this, but I don't remember the command line. Quoting Thomas Eibner: perl -pi -e 's/\r\n/\n/' file (I think that's the right one.) Just keep in mind that this is potentially unreliable; if there were any naturally occurring \r\n's in the zip file, they'll be convert to \n along with the rest. Jima From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 6 13:17:47 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stupid me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020206190902.GA460@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:22:25PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, mjn wrote: > > > I uploaded a zip file to our novell ftp server in acsii mode and now I > > cannot unpack it...any utilities out there to fix this? I really don't > > understand WHY it doesn't open any longer... > > It doesn't work anymore because the FTP process has replaced all the CR > characters (ASCII 13) with CRLF (ASCII 13 ASCII 10). Actually it's more than that: it cleared the 8th bit. And no, you can't fix that, you have to upload it again. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/d73360d4/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 13:47:04 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <1013015711.20328.64.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <1013015711.20328.64.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <34099.198.74.20.75.1013023756.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> This i know, but exim still uses a binary (or is it a symlink? i never checked) called sendmail. my only guess is that this is for compatability the configuration option in squirrelmail is for using "sendmail" or "SMTP" -munir > sendmail != exim > http://www.sendmail.org/ > http://www.exim.org/ > > -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. > > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D > DC59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From clay at fandre.com Wed Feb 6 13:52:11 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Perl one-liners (was Stupid me...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013024463.3c6186cf98dc0@www.fandre.com> Quoting Jima : > Quoting Thomas Eibner: > > perl -pi -e 's/\r\n/\n/' file Even though this won't work for the ftp problem, it is a valuable perl one-liner that I have used more times than I can count. (No jokes please) It's especially useful for changing URLs in a bunch of html docs. Include the i.bak option to backup the file first. (just to be safe) For a list of some other useful one-liners: http://www.unixguide.net/unix/perl_oneliners.shtml From clay at fandre.com Wed Feb 6 13:54:10 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues In-Reply-To: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <1013024597.3c618755ed872@www.fandre.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens : > Any pointers would be greatly appreciated, as nothing has turned up > via google, or the FreeBSD mailing lists (which i blatantly refuse to post > to) So what's wrong with the FreeBSD mailing lists? From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 14:05:05 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: <1013021633.4611.67.camel@elgato> Message-ID: On 6 Feb 2002, John Scherer wrote: > 1st I would love to help out setting up the installfest networks, keep > me informed. As would I. > Now, heres my thought: > > I have a Linux box setup as a router, with 4 Ethernet cards installed (I > can add a few more if needed) that we could use for other installfests. > I also have a few 10/100 Ethernet switches I could bring. The router > can run DHCP, FTP, HTTPD, etc... I also somewhat wonder how efficient read-only NFS would be, compared to FTP/HTTP. Anyway, that would work so long as you mirrored most of the distributions, hopefully including updates. > My thought was having the router be the InstallNET backbone, with one > 10/100 enet drop to each switch. one switch per table. Then if they > need more drops at a table than the switch has available, they just add > a hub/switch to the existing switch at the table (under InstallFest > NetAdmin supervision) I had a similar idea, but at the base level, the same: segmenting the network. Also a good idea on the switches; there was some question as to whether all of the hubs we were stringing together were causing problems. (I then noticed that someone failed to correctly set the mode of the uplink port on the particular hub, but it was still a concern!) And obviously having 10/100 would help, especially if we actually used the server for network installs. (How prevalent was this on Saturday? I'd say I personally saw more CD media than network installs, but I didn't move around much.) At any rate, though, the lack of availability of such equipment is what keeps the networks from working too well. Offering to lend equipment certainly helps. > This setup would help debug network problems as well. We would easily > be able to tell what enet port the problem is originating from and > isolate the problem if necessary. Yep. > This could also be a learning tool for others to learn from. As an > installfest NetAdmin you could use this as a teaching tool to help > educate others with more advanced aspects of networking. True. Perhaps difficult, but it is possible. > PS: Someone though of adding something to the nametags at future > installfests to identify those who are “helpers” or “admins”, great > idea. I did the nametags you saw at the past weekends fest, and could > add other info to the tags if desired. I would just need to know who > and what. Probably a good idea. At the installfest at CodeWeavers, we wrote an (A) on our nametags to indicate we were helpers, but a number of people (myself included) have said that they'd like something more specific than "helper," that is, their area of expertise. (Asking a RedHat expert for assistance on a Debian install? BAD idea.) What's up with those control characters around "helpers" and "admins?" ^S for left quote, and ^T for right quote. It's weird. Came from Evolution, too. > Any thought? I try to avoid it whenever possible. Jima From jacque at fruitioninc.com Wed Feb 6 14:07:06 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting Feb 7th Message-ID: Hey y'all- Beer meeting. Tomorrow. Barley John's. Be there. http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting Jacque _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 14:31:16 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Perl one-liners (was Stupid me...) In-Reply-To: <1013024463.3c6186cf98dc0@www.fandre.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Even though this won't work for the ftp problem, it is a valuable perl one-liner > that I have used more times than I can count. (No jokes please) It's especially > useful for changing URLs in a bunch of html docs. Include the i.bak option to > backup the file first. (just to be safe) Nope, can't make fun of you for that. It's a very useful one-liner. In case what Clay said wasn't particularly clear: perl -pi.bak -e 's/replacethis/withthis/' file will leave the original content of the file, intact, in file.bak. > For a list of some other useful one-liners: > http://www.unixguide.net/unix/perl_oneliners.shtml Sounds like good reading. Jima From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 14:34:18 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013027112.20629.112.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 13:48, Jima wrote: > On 6 Feb 2002, John Scherer wrote: > I also somewhat wonder how efficient read-only NFS would be, compared to > FTP/HTTP. > Anyway, that would work so long as you mirrored most of the > distributions, hopefully including updates. NFS requires at a minimum nfs support in kernel, nfs-utils, portmap. Not all machines have this. NFS sucks rancid monkey chunks. > > My thought was having the router be the InstallNET backbone, with one > > 10/100 enet drop to each switch. one switch per table. Then if they > > need more drops at a table than the switch has available, they just add > > a hub/switch to the existing switch at the table (under InstallFest > > NetAdmin supervision) > > I had a similar idea, but at the base level, the same: segmenting the > network. > Also a good idea on the switches; there was some question as to whether > all of the hubs we were stringing together were causing problems. (I then > noticed that someone failed to correctly set the mode of the uplink port > on the particular hub, but it was still a concern!) And obviously having > 10/100 would help, especially if we actually used the server for network > installs. (How prevalent was this on Saturday? I'd say I personally saw > more CD media than network installs, but I didn't move around much.) At > any rate, though, the lack of availability of such equipment is what keeps > the networks from working too well. Offering to lend equipment certainly > helps. > > > This setup would help debug network problems as well. We would easily > > be able to tell what enet port the problem is originating from and > > isolate the problem if necessary. > > Yep. > > > This could also be a learning tool for others to learn from. As an > > installfest NetAdmin you could use this as a teaching tool to help > > educate others with more advanced aspects of networking. > > True. Perhaps difficult, but it is possible. > > > PS: Someone though of adding something to the nametags at future > > installfests to identify those who are ?helpers? or ?admins?, great > > idea. I did the nametags you saw at the past weekends fest, and could > > add other info to the tags if desired. I would just need to know who > > and what. > > Probably a good idea. At the installfest at CodeWeavers, we wrote an > (A) on our nametags to indicate we were helpers, but a number of people > (myself included) have said that they'd like something more specific than > "helper," that is, their area of expertise. (Asking a RedHat expert for > assistance on a Debian install? BAD idea.) > What's up with those control characters around "helpers" and > "admins?" ^S for left quote, and ^T for right quote. It's weird. Came > from Evolution, too. > > > Any thought? > > I try to avoid it whenever possible. > > Jima > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/6e388cc6/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 6 14:51:54 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200201290625.g0T6Plb23681@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201281838.g0SIcj507976@sprite.real-time.com> <20020128200227.GB477@iucha.net> <200201290625.g0T6Plb23681@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020129160928.GA448@iucha.net> My opinion on this thread gravitates around a few themes: 1. Linux is not a product. "RedHat Linux" is a product. 2. Telling anybody about what a business should do doesn't achieve anything. Talk to that business or start one of your own. 3. Users want to learn, but they don't have time. 4. Users who don't want to learn (despite 3.) should wonder why they feel disposable... 5. "The end justifies the means." (Nicolo Machiavelli) - If somebody doesn't care what's inside as long as it solves the problem I have now, it doesn't care if it's Linux inside or Windows inside. 6. Everybody want something for nothing, including IT managers to get invited to Micro$oft conferences and MCSE drones that have got a job because of an empty buzzword. 7. People are terribly shortsighted: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20020146246118.gif They will always trade freedom for convenience. On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 12:25:18PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 28 January 2002 2:02 pm, you wrote: > > > they just want to press a button and let the computer figure out what > > the problem is, what the solution is and implement the solution. > > Self diagnostics...now that would be cool! Nope, you misunderstood. This is a user that has a problem, a task to accomplish. > > GUI/CL is irrelevant. I, as a _USER_ cannot spend time wandering the > > menu system in search for the bold command, or move the mouse ever so > > slowly over the tool buttons so I can read the tooltip and hope I get > > the desired one... > > I just don't understand your argument here Florin. The bad thing about CL is > a complete lack of "tactile" feel. People unfamiliar with CL look at that > blinking cursor like a deer caught in the headlights. Nothing on the CL is > visable unless you know how to access it. It's simply not intuitive. I find > the majority of tools I need from an application are usually staring me in > the face on one of several top-layer toolbars. Any monkey can fetch a banana from a tree... A human should be able to ask a waiter... Which brings me to another usefull analogy: Did it ever happen to you to go to a restaurant and want to tweak one of the dishes? "Could I have the shrimp grilled instead of fried? And a little less dressing on the salad..." Now imagine how the menu would look like if it were to offer you the option to point to _any_ combination. > > > Where I'm going is that the OSes that gain desktop market share will be > > > the ones that let people learn as little as possible, get their work > > > done, and exchange files with other users. > > > > Where I'm going at is that dumbing everything down is not a long-term > > solution. > > In my opinion it is the inevitable solution. Successful products don't > increase complexity for users. See 1. and 2. > > Dumb users will be happy to get Windows on their computers. They don't > > care about freedom (maybe they will care when it will be too late). They > > don't care about improving Linux. They just care about _their_ problem. > > Let them be... > > I do care about freedom. That is why I try to convince people to use Linux. You are trying to solve a problem they don't have... No wonder they don't follow you... > > PS: I apologize for my vent, but I'm pissed about all that talk that > > fills web logs and mailing lists... If half of it would be spent doing > > something (even if not related to the problem) everybody would be much > > better off (including the DU). > > Do you think this talk is fruitless? Unfortunately yes. Neither of us will start a Linux business anytime soon... > As a Linux user and advocate I simply > wanted other members opinions on this subject. You may go about your > business solving problems 24/7, but I for one like to chat about things once > in awhile. I appreciate your comments Florin...now take a deep breath and > say "Calgon take me away...." :) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry but I don't know what that means :) florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/c7dd1eab/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 6 15:16:17 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: References: <1013021633.4611.67.camel@elgato> Message-ID: <20020206205513.GC25214@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 01:48:07PM -0600, Jima wrote: > I also somewhat wonder how efficient read-only NFS would be, compared > to FTP/HTTP. Anyway, that would work so long as you mirrored most of > the distributions, hopefully including updates. Depends on what you'd like to do. Let's take a Debian installation for example. apt uses a number of sources to install packages: ftp, http, cdrom, file, etc. To install the package, dpkg needs to find the *.deb on the local file system somewhere. If we're using http or ftp, we need to actually copy those *.debs to cache (/var/cache/apt/archives). If we can access these files from an NFS mounted directory, this copy phase is eliminated. You can see that comparing an NFS install to an FTP install is no longer apples-to-apples. The I/O savings are enormous. Now, that's not to say that NFS is more efficient on the network than either HTTP or FTP. Simply put, it's not. There are many more RPC calls that NFS needs to make, so the client and server are positively chatty. TCP for FTP and HTTP may certainly be lean in comparison, but you have to incorporate the larger picture of the task at hand to see the real comparisons. For network-based installs, a read-only package mirror is definitely the way to go. Back to the grind. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/4c122922/attachment.pgp From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 15:26:07 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <33381.65.25.216.9.1012308030.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <200201290545.g0T5jX508398@eire> <33381.65.25.216.9.1012308030.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <200201291630.g0TGU6923152@localhost.localdomain> THe problem with being a newbie is that you don't know when you are made fun of. Errr, I guess it is better that way. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From swanberg at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 15:37:02 2002 From: swanberg at tc.umn.edu (Karen A Swanberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR print from linux -> NT print server Message-ID: Hi all; First, if anyone who responds would cc: to swanberg@umn.edu, that would be great, as I'm subscribed via digest. There is a linux question embedded below, I'm just trying to give enough detail... I have an NT print server serving my networked printers so I can use some third party software to do printer accounting (PAS, from www.metrics.com) Therefore, my HP Laserprinters (4000N, 4100N, etc) only allow print jobs from the IP of the print server. I have macs and pc's printing just fine, using the standard print queues of the NT server. I have tcp/ip print server service running. I now have a linux user (running SUSE) who wants to print to the printers. I see doing this with one of two methods: printing directly to the printer (opening the HP jetdirect to his IP, which is fine) or having him send the print job to the print server. The user is creating the files (either Postscript 2 or 3, depending) by a command such as: $ groff -Tlj4 -ms cv.6 > cv6_lj.ps, and sending them to the printer or the print server with: $ lpr -Plp206 cv6_lj.ps If the user send the job to the print server, the job prints out as the postscript commands, rather than the formatted postscript output. If he sends it directly to the printer, he gets postscript jibberish or nothing at all. We've tried a bunch of different printcap configurations, some of which are below. No luck with any of them. # /etc/printcap: printer capability database. See printcap(5). # You can use the filter entries df, tf, cf, gf etc. for # your own filters. See /etc/filter.ps, /etc/filter.pcl and # the printcap(5) manual page for further details. # Notes by Karen. # The print queue's are called: # PAS-104-Laser - an HP 4100N # PAS-206-Laser - an HP 4000N # PAS-800-HPGL2 - an HP DesignJet 800PS using the GL2 drivers # PAS-800-PS - The same Designjet using the PS (level 3) drivers # PAS-Tek-850DP - Tektronix Phaser 850DP # The print server is named graphite.my.domain.edu / AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD # :sd=/var/spool/lpd/pas206:\ lp206|HP LaserJet 4000N in Computer Lab:\ :lp:\ # :rm=graphite.my.domain.edu:\ # :rp=PAS-206-Laser:\ :rm=IP.of.printer.here:\ :rp=raw:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp206:\ :lf=/var/log/lp-errs:\ :mx#0: # Tektronix Phaser 850DP Color Printer color2|Phaser 850DP:\ :lp=:\ :rm=graphite.my.domain.edu:\ # :rp=AUTO:\ :rp=PAS-Tek-850DP:\ :mx#0:\ :af=/var/log/lp-acct:\ :lf=/var/log/lp-errs:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/color2:\ :sh: I'm in the rough here. I'm unsure how to integrate LPR printing into my Win print server (although I'm assured by the tech support on the 3rd party printing system that it works, but they don't know how to do it), but at this point I'd be happy to completely bypass the print server and go straight to the printer. Unfortunately, I have even less of an idea how to do that then printing to the server. I've heard rumblings about port 9100 printing, but that means nothing to me. I do have a samba server I could use to catch the lpr print jobs, and send them onto the win server, but boy do I *not* want to do that. I'm told by others "I don't think printcap / lpr is the problem... at least, not on the client machine. Lpr just ships files off to the print server: it's the server's job to interpret the job correctly," but if so, I don't understand why my NT serer isn't translating this correctly. Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm still a bit leary on the whole blackbox printing thing... Sincerely, -Karen - - Karen Swanberg | Sys Admin | Dept. of Geology and Geophysics 206 Pillsbury Hall | 310 Pillsbury Ave. SE | University of Minnesota Minneapolis, MN 55455 (612) 624-6541 (612) 625-3819 (f) * <---- Tribble . <--- Tribble.tgz From jima at gimp.damnation.net Wed Feb 6 15:38:30 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: <1013027112.20629.112.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: On 6 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 13:48, Jima wrote: > > I also somewhat wonder how efficient read-only NFS would be, compared to > > FTP/HTTP. > > NFS requires at a minimum nfs support in kernel, nfs-utils, portmap. Not > all machines have this. NFS sucks rancid monkey chunks. Kernel/utils/everything else support isn't an issue for network installations; everything needed to make the installing machine an NFS workstation is (or damn well should be) included in the net install floppy. As for the sucking "rancid monkey chunks," what works better for a networked filesystem? Jima From jts at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 15:40:08 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: <200202061928.g16JS4S22761@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:14:50AM -0600, Joel T Schneider wrote: > > Otherwise, maybe someone will eventually integrate M$ calendaring > > support with mutt :-( > > I actually think it won't be a mutt thing. I could probably piece > together a procmail filter to read calendaring messages -- they're just > specially formatted email messages (vCal). Just like the autoresponders > that I have for giving people information (see my sig), you can trigger > programs to parse and incorporate scheduling requests, etc. Thanks for the info. I had heard of iCal, but not vCal. Not too difficult to find a good site for info on vCal (http://www.imc.org/pdi/). A year or two ago, when I attended a talk about OpenFlock, the speaker complained about how the existing commercial groupware offerings (Exchange, Notes, Groupwise ...) each had its own proprietary calendaring system. Interestingly, these days, it looks like Google even has a directory page for open source groupware: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Groupware/Open_Source/ On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) Nifty. Joel From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Feb 6 16:22:30 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <20020129095513.A27155@sherohman.org> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201290625.g0T6Plb23681@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020129095513.A27155@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <200201291654.g0TGsrb11685@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Tuesday 29 January 2002 9:55 am, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 12:25:18PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > On Monday 28 January 2002 2:02 pm, you wrote: > > Please look into fixing your attributions so that replies to list > posts state the name of the person you're replying to instead of "you > wrote". Sorry about that...fixed. From thudak at autonomous.tv Wed Feb 6 16:40:12 2002 From: thudak at autonomous.tv (Thomas J. Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues In-Reply-To: <1013024597.3c618755ed872@www.fandre.com> References: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <1013024597.3c618755ed872@www.fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020206221422.GA24156@Ikarus> > So what's wrong with the FreeBSD mailing lists? Have you ever read or posted to them? If you had any notion that linux users were cocky about their OS.. they pale in comparison to bsd zealots... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/2914d356/attachment.pgp From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 16:52:21 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Arioso font problems in KDE Message-ID: <200201291729.g0THTY925399@localhost.localdomain> I keep getting Arioso turned on for the editor within Konqueror. It is a pain in the behind. (cursive fonts don't belong on a computer.) Is there a way to remove it? -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 16:57:05 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting Feb 7th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47039.198.74.20.75.1013035338.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Amazing, i got this more than 1 hour ahead of time... -munir > Hey y'all- > > Beer meeting. Tomorrow. Barley John's. Be there. > > http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting > > > Jacque > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-announce mailing list > tclug-announce@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 16:58:30 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: <1013027112.20629.112.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <1013027112.20629.112.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <41274.198.74.20.75.1013035671.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > > NFS requires at a minimum nfs support in kernel, nfs-utils, portmap. > Not all machines have this. NFS sucks rancid monkey chunks. Most distros have this stuff as standard, so this should not be a problem -munir From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 6 17:00:17 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues In-Reply-To: <20020206221422.GA24156@Ikarus> References: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <1013024597.3c618755ed872@www.fandre.com> <20020206221422.GA24156@Ikarus> Message-ID: <1013035948.20328.121.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 16:14, Thomas J. Hudak wrote: > > So what's wrong with the FreeBSD mailing lists? > Have you ever read or posted to them? If you had any notion that linux > users were cocky about their OS.. they pale in comparison to bsd > zealots... Their archives do not conceal subscribers or posters email addresses or mangle them. They take no anti-spam countermeasures at all. If you want your email address(s) to be harvested by spamturds and their crawlers of evil go ahead. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/3e91f970/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Feb 6 17:41:52 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200201261746.g0QHk9b13586@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020126144919.GB3177@iucha.net> <200201261746.g0QHk9b13586@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020129113647.A20698@baker.space.umn.edu> [This is a re-send. Sorry if its a dupe, but I sent it 22 hours ago, but even though the thread is way past me now, I wasted too much time writing this to let it drop ;)]. On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 11:45:51PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Saturday 26 January 2002 8:49 am, you wrote: > > > > Sorry, but that's irrelevant. If you get the .config files > > from your > > fooBar distro and copy them onto RedHat/Mandrake/Debian, you > > should get > > the same "ergonomy". > > It's not irrelevant because the other distros do not include > these .config > files and new users generally would have no knowledge of > "copying" them to > others like RedHat/Mandrake/Debian. I may be wrong, but I > doubt the entire > "ergonomic" feel of a distro is based solely on .config files. > For example > Lycoris has the following features which make it easy to use: I use Debian and haven't tried any thing else in a couple of years and Debian is definitely not targeted to newbies, but I still think that most of your points don't hold for Debian (and probably not for Red Hat, Mandrake et al. either). > 1. The default menu layout is "function based" i.e.. > Internet, Music & > Movies, Pictures & Photos, Productivity, System Management, > Development etc... Debian's menu system has done this for at least 5 years. > 2. I updated my entire distro online from version 43 to 44 > using the Update > Wizard without any problems. Apt-get has been making updates a snap for quite some time and Debian and Debian has a huge amount of number of official packages available. > 3. It includes a My Linux System folder ala Windows My Computer > and a Network > Browser similar to a Network Neighborhood. No configuration is > generally > necessary. I was able to browse and share files with my > Windows box by > simply "clicking" my way though the "Network". This is nice, but as others have said automatically setting this up without asking is not a good idea, especially for newbies. > 4. Applications are not duplicated. There isn't 3 different > browsers, 4 > email clients, 5 editors , etc... One popular application is > installed to > perform each task, however others are included on the cds. I have a hard time seeing how this is an advantage. There are several instances where giving multiple options would be useful. For example for text editors, a console capable text editor is a must, even if the user themselves won't use it, recovery situations if X breaks. The user themselves should also a mouse friendly editor. I don't know what the defaults are for Debian at the moment, but I think vi{m} and another console text editor are standard. Depending on what install profile is chosen, one or more other editors would be chosen for installation (emacs for the programmer profile, some "easy", mousy editor for the newby profile, et cetera). I guess I don't see the problem of giving the user a few extra choices. Especially for newbies who might be more likely to try out random programs that show up in a menu than they are to go to the install disks and to install a bunch of text editors to try out. Of course _all_ choices for a particular category shouldn't be installed, but several for the majors categories seems like a good idea. Installing all of both Gnome and KDE by default might be overkill, but I think it would be good for a newby workstation install to include Mozilla, Konqueror or Galeon, and Lynx or W3m or Links. For email Mutt and at least one of the popular GUI email programs would make sense. Anyway, I guess I just don't see why having several options for crucial tasks would be a bad thing. Heck, Windows 95 had Wordpad, Textedit and DOS Edit all installed by default I think. > 5. All the config tools are built into the KDE Control Center. > No seperate > config gui to worry about. Well, I don't know about this since I don't like GUI config apps ;). Keeping config apps synchronized with all of the programs in a distro that have config files always seemed to be more trouble than it was worth to me. I think there are some available on Debian, but they're not the standard. So I guess I'll cede you this point. > 6. Xine, xmms, aKtion, Real Player, gphoto, and Kooka are all > installed and > layed out nicely within the menus. I know Real Player isn't standard on Debian since its non-free, but at least some of the others would be default for a newby workstation profile. And I think that all of them would be installed and work fine with the menu system (though I'd never heard of aKtion or Kooka before). I'd be surprised if the same weren't true Mandrake and the other desktop distros. > 7. Java and Flash are installed and configured for Konqueror > and Mozilla. (I thought you didn't like duplications ;)) Flash isn't standard with Debian because its non-free and I think it has be downloaded from Macromedia, but Java installs nicely with Mozilla. Frankly, I think that installing neither would probably make for a better browsing experience, but that's just me. > 8. There is an automount feature for removable media. > Inserting an audio cd > will either bring up the correct app or automatically begin > playing. I think this is available, but I haven't set it because I don't like auto-run - its too abused in Windows. > ...there are more. I realize these features could be added to > any distro. > I'm not trying to say Lycoris is so much better than the > others. I would > like to get your opinion on whether you think these features > will make it > into other distros. Are they required to gain more users? It > would seem so > IMHO. I agree there's lots of work that could be done to make Linux easier to use, but I think I disagree with where the focus of that work would be. I think a lot of the complaints about Linux (and lots of the usability work in KDE for example) seem to be focussed more on making Linux's interface like Windows (or MacOS) than on making Linux easier to use. And being likes Windows and usability are definitely orthogonal ideas. Being like Windows is useful for helping people to _transition_ to Linux, but if it leads to some Windows pitfalls being transferred to Linux, its very debatable whether its worth it. It'd be to spend the effort on making Linux usable in original ways than to clone the mistakes of the past. Ramblingly yours, Jim -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Feb 6 18:24:07 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] scripted ATA, XBIOS, hardware IO? Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, Is anyone aware of any support in perl or another scripting language for hardware IO, BIOS commands or direct ATA access? I got this link from securityfocus.com and now I've got DOS-envy. The general idea is that through an ATA call a hard drive will pretend to be smaller than it really is. Data could be hidden in the unused space and nothing except another ATA call to undo the previous one will make the space accessible. Of course, most forensics tools can't see the unallocated space either. www.sandersonforensics.co.uk/html/bxdr-dos.html Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8YceefexLsowstzcRAilHAKCurbZi2/F7gXJpeSYsnxQhVhv10ACfed9w zLfhwOZIpb3QT5XEErLduPk= =Nx1b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From john at schererzoo.com Wed Feb 6 18:26:16 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: <41274.198.74.20.75.1013035671.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <1013027112.20629.112.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <41274.198.74.20.75.1013035671.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <1013040677.9805.15.camel@elgato> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 16:47, nassarmu@redconcepts.net wrote: > > > > > NFS requires at a minimum nfs support in kernel, nfs-utils, portmap. > > Not all machines have this. NFS sucks rancid monkey chunks. > > Most distros have this stuff as standard, so this should not be a problem Good point. unless the user has removed it from his or her kernel, which is more than likely not the case for the average new user. Mounting an nfs volume is is just a simple mount command, no different than mounting a cdrom. Were not talking about have NFSD on all machines, just a single master. I "think" all that the clients need to have in their kernels is "CONFIG_NFS_FS" And for those who don't have it in their kernel, maybe it would be a good chance compile it in as module and be done with it. Then it's available for other installfests if you need it. I use NFS @ home between my server and three clients, one 802.11b, and never had a problem. Stream MP3's all day long! (yes I know this is not a REAL test/valadition of NFS, just my 2 cents worth) > > -munir > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Feb 6 18:43:03 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202061426.g16EQ7f32210@linuxserver.northlans.com>; from jimstreit@northlans.com on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:26:07AM -0600 References: <200202061426.g16EQ7f32210@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020206181157.G2520@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:26:07AM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > A nessus scan on my smoothwall box also comes up without any > vunerabilities. Same as scans from DLSReports and grc. But does that > make my smoothwall box any less secure then a generic RH 7.2 high > firewall setting box? > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you intrusion detection? Sure. > Can a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be installed on a machine with > only a couple hundred meg drive? Yep > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you site to site VPN > support? Sure > Can RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be monitored remotly? Of course. -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 18:44:44 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] libfam.la Message-ID: <200201291803.g0TI3b928949@localhost.localdomain> What is 'libfam.la' in /usr/lib ? It is stopping 'make' with KBear and Geheimnis. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Feb 6 19:04:59 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Typically, if you have frame or carrier errors, it's usually a bad cable. Could be your switch or card too. It's almost 100% not a configuration problem. I used to work for an advertising agency here in Minneapolis. We had an office in chicago, and everyday around noon, everyone in the chicago office would call and complain that the network was slow, or working intermittently. We verified heavy packet loss out there when they complained. So, a couple of months later when we were in the office out there, we checked it out. Some ingenious individual brought a microwave into work so they could heat up their lunch, and they set it right on top of the switch. So during lunch, everyone in the office would heat up their lunch, and basically microwave the switch. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Perry Hoekstra [mailto:dutchman@uswest.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 3:31 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem > > > I have a basic network setup whereas I don't run DNS but just etc/host > file with just three PCs set up with 10.0.0.x addresses and dhcp for a > laptop. I seem to be have network troubles with my main workstation. > When I do an ifconfig, I see the following: > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:E3:05:92:46 > inet addr:10.0.0.1 Bcast:10.0.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:1010 errors:508 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:1369 > TX packets:6384 errors:12 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:24 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 > RX bytes:171095 (167.0 Kb) TX bytes:8399187 (8.0 Mb) > Interrupt:10 Base address:0x9000 > > My concern is the errors with the RX packets. They seem abnormally > high. When I do a route -n, I see the following: > > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric > Ref Use > Iface > 10.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 > 0 0 > eth0 > 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 > 0 0 > lo > > Did I forget to configure something that is causing my > network troubles? > > -- > Perry Hoekstra > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Feb 6 19:21:37 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: <20020206163402.3B3499060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> References: <20020206163402.3B3499060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday 06 February 2002 10:34 am, you wrote: > I hate that. Let me guess, you are on Mandrake, right? For some reason > every install of Mandrake I have seen does that to Kmail. What you have to > do is edit ~/.kde/share/config/kmailrc > > You will see an entry for [Account 1], just manually change that to what > you want your default account to be. Dont delete it, or you will screw up > kmail. But if you put some values in there (even if not the right ones) you > can then use Kmail to delete the account and put your own default in. Well, it is on a RH 7.1 box. When I open the above file the account I want to be the default is listed under [Account 1]. I grep for default and find no account information related to default. I will muck around with it for a bit. It is not that big of a deal. Thanks for the information. From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Feb 6 19:23:38 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <200202070117.g171HAU01112@linuxserver.northlans.com> OK, how? > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:26:07AM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > > A nessus scan on my smoothwall box also comes up without any > > vunerabilities. Same as scans from DLSReports and grc. But does that > > make my smoothwall box any less secure then a generic RH 7.2 high > > firewall setting box? > > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you intrusion detection? > > Sure. > > > Can a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be installed on a machine with > > only a couple hundred meg drive? > > Yep > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you site to site VPN > > support? > > Sure > > > Can RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be monitored remotly? > > Of course. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified > http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From list at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 6 20:08:02 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: References: <20020206163402.3B3499060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: <20020207014626.2CDBBC6D69@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> On Wednesday 06 February 2002 07:18 pm, you wrote: > On Wednesday 06 February 2002 10:34 am, you wrote: > > I hate that. Let me guess, you are on Mandrake, right? For some reason > > every install of Mandrake I have seen does that to Kmail. What you have > > to do is edit ~/.kde/share/config/kmailrc > > > > You will see an entry for [Account 1], just manually change that to what > > you want your default account to be. Dont delete it, or you will screw > > up kmail. But if you put some values in there (even if not the right > > ones) you can then use Kmail to delete the account and put your own > > default in. > > Well, it is on a RH 7.1 box. When I open the above file the account I want > to be the default is listed under [Account 1]. I grep for default and find > no account information related to default. I will muck around with it for a > bit. It is not that big of a deal. > Thanks for the information. Yeah, the problem is there is no information. For some reason Kmail cant handle an account with no information. If you just put some info in there you should be able to use Kmail to edit/remove it. -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Good day to let down old friends who need help. From john at schererzoo.com Wed Feb 6 20:10:18 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] libfam.la In-Reply-To: <200201291803.g0TI3b928949@localhost.localdomain> References: <200201291803.g0TI3b928949@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1013046534.1928.1.camel@elgato> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 12:03, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > What is 'libfam.la' in /usr/lib ? as per rpmfind: part of fam-2.6.4-77 RPM. The daemon reports changes in the filesystem to user level applications. > > It is stopping 'make' with KBear and Geheimnis. > > > -- > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Feb 6 20:12:15 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202070117.g171HAU01112@linuxserver.northlans.com>; from jimstreit@northlans.com on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:17:10PM -0600 References: <200202070117.g171HAU01112@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020206194935.H2520@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:17:10PM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > OK, how? > > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you intrusion detection? snort, tripwire > > > Can a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be installed on a machine > with > > > only a couple hundred meg drive? > > Custom install.. > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you site to site VPN > > > support? [insert vpn tool here] > > > Can RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be monitored remotly? sshd, remote syslog -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Wed Feb 6 20:32:10 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers Message-ID: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and im getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and which ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/833d6ac1/attachment.htm From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 20:33:39 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BE9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BE9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200201291947.g0TJl5929043@localhost.localdomain> > Monetary or hardware donations? I'll donate. > > I got much more use out of this list when my messages used to post within > minutes of sending them. I second that. I posted 2 messages before 1200 and they still haven't posted. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From bbaptist at iexposure.com Wed Feb 6 20:35:04 2002 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BE9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BE9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200201291942.g0TJglM14471@destiny.iexposure.com> Yeah I got hardware that I could stand to get rid of. Some of it not that bad even. Bret. On Tuesday 29 January 2002 12:28 pm, you wrote: > > The machine that hosts the list is loaded with some other > > work. I heard a > > rumor that someone was organizing donations for another > > server to host the > > list. > > Monetary or hardware donations? I'll donate. > > I got much more use out of this list when my messages used to post within > minutes of sending them. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ if u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Feb 6 20:54:00 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 BlackBox? That's a pretty Slackish window manager. The others just require way too many weird libraries. Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 Nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and im > getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and which > ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8YerkfexLsowstzcRAicjAJ4+dSE+r74lC8WtUd2xuue2HIE5OwCgvLDp sd22qTuC1r/Y9ZUN4NJGUvw= =Z3RJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Feb 6 20:56:16 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ignore Message-ID: <200202070231.g172V7J07425@techmonkeys.org> ping 1013049067 From list at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 6 21:27:03 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> References: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020207031742.CBD42C6D43@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> What are you looking for? If you want a full featured environment, try KDE. If you want something simple, icewm is nice. If you want the appitamy of simple, try twm/mwm. If you want cutting edge, I hear that the Darwin environment from OSX is portable to x86..... Jay On Wednesday 06 February 2002 08:24 pm, you wrote: > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and > im getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and > which ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- FORTUNE PROVIDES QUESTIONS FOR THE GREAT ANSWERS: #31 A: Chicken Teriyaki. Q: What is the name of the world's oldest kamikaze pilot? From myok at ogzr.org Wed Feb 6 21:30:16 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BE9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <000701c1a901$fef1b780$4165a8c0@here> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austad, Jay" > > The machine that hosts the list is loaded with some other > > work. I heard a > > rumor that someone was organizing donations for another > > server to host the > > list. > > Monetary or hardware donations? I'll donate. > > I got much more use out of this list when my messages used to post within > minutes of sending them. > I'll donate too. I miss the days of 100+ messages. What beefiness of cash or equipment would help? -- Carl Patten From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Wed Feb 6 21:49:11 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers Message-ID: <105.10b5f6ea.299351ca@cs.com> you can download darwin from apples site but its just a prompt. i am looking for somthing simple like fluxbox. i am gunna try that but i want to know other options that are similar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020206/89fc4eca/attachment.html From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 6 22:26:02 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <20020207031742.CBD42C6D43@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> References: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> <20020207031742.CBD42C6D43@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <02020621482800.18889@edith> FVWM? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... Kelly Black KB0GBJ > On Wednesday 06 February 2002 08:24 pm, somebody somewhere wrote: > > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and > > im getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and > > which ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? From dave at droyer.org Wed Feb 6 22:46:16 2002 From: dave at droyer.org (Dave Royer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 802.11 wireless & creating a Linux access point In-Reply-To: <200202060235.UAA09033@citycenter.citilink.com> References: <200202050321.VAA12870@citycenter.citilink.com> <1012891355.4085.34.camel@merlin> <200202060235.UAA09033@citycenter.citilink.com> Message-ID: <1013055852.4201.3.camel@merlin> Thanks. Maybe the orinoco driver is a bit new. I will try the wavelan2 drivers and see what kind of results I get. Thanks Dave On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 20:55, Jeff Clark wrote: > My /etc/pcmcia/config.opts file contains: ... From dante at plethora.net Wed Feb 6 22:47:57 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <02020621482800.18889@edith> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Kelly Black wrote: > FVWM? > Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... > fvwm2 please. Much better feature set, quick loading, fully configurable. Low footprint. > > On Wednesday 06 February 2002 08:24 pm, somebody somewhere wrote: > > > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and > > > im getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and > > > which ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From esper at sherohman.org Wed Feb 6 22:49:26 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com>; from Nicksteeler12@cs.com on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:24:24PM -0500 References: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020206224013.A5206@sherohman.org> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:24:24PM -0500, Nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and im > getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and which > ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? Well, nobody's mentioned WindowMaker yet... That's pretty lightweight and easily-configurable. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From duncan at sodatrain.com Wed Feb 6 22:57:40 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012340353.10179.71.camel@money> sorry, on irc.openprojects.net #tclug duncan From duncan at sodatrain.com Wed Feb 6 22:59:22 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1012340498.10180.77.camel@money> So what would it take to host the mail list? ive got a co-lo'd box at real time, its not doing too much at the moment. im interested in hearing what it would take to admin the list and what sort of resources it would require to run the tclug list(s). duncan oh yeah, no sendmail on my box, qmail. From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Feb 6 23:16:15 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <200202070510.g175A5i01463@linuxserver.northlans.com> Are all of these included with the RedHat 7.2 cd's > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:17:10PM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > > OK, how? > > > > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you intrusion detection? > > snort, tripwire > > > > > Can a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be installed on a machine > > with > > > > only a couple hundred meg drive? > > > > > Custom install.. > > > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you site to site VPN > > > > support? > > [insert vpn tool here] > > > > > Can RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be monitored remotly? > > sshd, remote syslog > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified > http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 6 23:47:43 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (nassarsa@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3001.162.96.254.81.1012343405.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> BTW, The Mailing List is still dropping posts.... Samir M. Nassar From wilson at isis.visi.com Thu Feb 7 00:54:09 2002 From: wilson at isis.visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sysadmin 101 question Message-ID: Hey everyone, Here's a very common sysadmin task that I want to make sure I do exactly right. My wife is home fulltime for the time being taking care of our new baby. While she's home she's got to use "my" computer. That makes her a Linux and KDE user by default. :-) I've got StarOffice all set up and she's having no trouble. I want to create a shared folder for "household" documents. Things that should be commonly owned by both of us. I've created a 'family' group and added the right user to the group, but I'm not sure how to set up the permission on the shared directory so that any files added will automatically have group ownership set to 'family'. I never really have understood all the stuff about sticky bits very well. I figure that I'll just leave the new family folder in my account and symlink to it from her /home. Any suggestions or hints? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From wilson at isis.visi.com Thu Feb 7 00:56:12 2002 From: wilson at isis.visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Number of TCLUG subscribers Message-ID: Hey Clay or Bob or anyone else who knows, What's the current number of TCLUG subscribers? How many messages is the TCLUG listserv box processing/day? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Thu Feb 7 01:37:34 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <20020129160928.GA448@iucha.net> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201290625.g0T6Plb23681@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020129160928.GA448@iucha.net> Message-ID: <200202070727.g177RKb05216@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Tuesday 29 January 2002 10:09 am, Florin Iucha wrote: > My opinion on this thread gravitates around a few themes: > 1. Linux is not a product. "RedHat Linux" is a product. Websters Dictionary: Product 1. Anything that is produced, whether as the result of generation, growth, labor, or thought. Maybe IBM spent a billion dollars to promote and sell something other than Linux for their servers. Distributions are selling "Linux" as a commercial advantage for their products within their particular wrapper. > > > Dumb users will be happy to get Windows on their computers. They don't > > > care about freedom (maybe they will care when it will be too late). > > > They don't care about improving Linux. They just care about _their_ > > > problem. Let them be... > > > > I do care about freedom. That is why I try to convince people to use > > Linux. > > You are trying to solve a problem they don't have... No wonder they > don't follow you... Fist off, dumb users are not limited to Windows, and not all Windows users are dumb. I want people who do care about choice to be aware that Linux is an option. And I have been successful thankyou. I'm not trying to "solve a problem" except open their eyes to another OS. Why does the world need 180+ distros? It's a matter of choice as a user/consumer. You tell me how advocating Linux is "trying to solve a problem they don't have". You seem passionate about Linux, but not enough to share it with those people who aren't technically involved in it. I quess we will have to agree...to disagree. From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Thu Feb 7 01:55:07 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR print from linux -> NT print server References: Message-ID: <3C6230B0.9CBA5F9A@mn.mediaone.net> A bit out of my depth but here's a couple of ideas Windows 2000 server doesn't include Unix LPR printing services in the install unless you specifically request it. I don't know NT but is it possible you're missing a component? From dutchman at uswest.net Thu Feb 7 04:28:03 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 12:37, Austad, Jay wrote: > Typically, if you have frame or carrier errors, it's usually a bad cable. > Could be your switch or card too. It's almost 100% not a configuration > problem. > Doh! Someone reminded me that I forgot to include the hardware configuration: - Abit KTA7 RAID Motherboard - Athlon 1.4 GHz Thunderbird Processor - RH 7.2 - NetGear FA311 using the DP83810 Chipset and Natsemi driver - LinkSys 10/100 5-port hub I replaced the cable with a different one and moved the port to a different one. I am still seeing significant packet loss. A ping to a different box will result in about 15% packet loss. I have another card but it is also a NetGear FA311. My next course of action is to find an updater driver (if one exists) and install that. -- Perry Hoekstra, MS E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From clay at fandre.com Thu Feb 7 05:01:21 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Number of TCLUG subscribers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020207105250.GA845@fandre.com> That'd be a Bob question. I'd say a lot for both. On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey Clay or Bob or anyone else who knows, > > What's the current number of TCLUG subscribers? How many messages is the > TCLUG listserv box processing/day? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/87489e32/attachment.pgp From clay at fandre.com Thu Feb 7 05:19:04 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sysadmin 101 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020207110301.GB845@fandre.com> Yea, the setuid/setgid bits are probably one of the more confusing aspects of a UNIX filesystem permissions. Basically you need to make the directory setgid, and set the group of the directory to whatever you want the files in it to be created as. # cd /tmp # mkdir test # chgrp audio test # chmod g+ws test joeuser$ touch /tmp/test/testfile joeuser$ ll /tmp/test/testfile total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 cfandre audio 0 Feb 7 04:57 testfile Hmmm, maybe this would be a good topic at the next "newbie" meeting. ;-) On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Here's a very common sysadmin task that I want to make sure I do exactly > right. My wife is home fulltime for the time being taking care of our > new baby. While she's home she's got to use "my" computer. That makes > her a Linux and KDE user by default. :-) I've got StarOffice all set up > and she's having no trouble. > > I want to create a shared folder for "household" documents. Things that > should be commonly owned by both of us. I've created a 'family' group > and added the right user to the group, but I'm not sure how to set up > the permission on the shared directory so that any files added will > automatically have group ownership set to 'family'. type="bold">I never really have understood all the stuff about sticky > bits very well. > > I figure that I'll just leave the new family folder in my account and > symlink to it from her /home. > > Any suggestions or hints? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/c3bb4825/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 7 06:28:03 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector In-Reply-To: <200202070510.g175A5i01463@linuxserver.northlans.com>; from jimstreit@northlans.com on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:10:05PM -0600 References: <200202070510.g175A5i01463@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020207061838.B32696@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:10:05PM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > Are all of these included with the RedHat 7.2 cd's > Everything but snort is included, RPMS for snort (as well as the latest rules) are available at www.snort.org. -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 7 06:29:38 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 04:14:47AM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <20020207062239.C32696@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 04:14:47AM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > I replaced the cable with a different one and moved the port to a > different one. I am still seeing significant packet loss. A ping to a > different box will result in about 15% packet loss. I have another card > but it is also a NetGear FA311. My next course of action is to find an > updater driver (if one exists) and install that. > Could you try running 'mii-tool -v' as root and send it? -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From dutchman at uswest.net Thu Feb 7 07:01:02 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <20020207062239.C32696@techmonkeys.org> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <20020207062239.C32696@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1013086442.6876.11.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 06:22, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 04:14:47AM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > > I replaced the cable with a different one and moved the port to a > > different one. I am still seeing significant packet loss. A ping to a > > different box will result in about 15% packet loss. I have another card > > but it is also a NetGear FA311. My next course of action is to find an > > updater driver (if one exists) and install that. > > > > Could you try running 'mii-tool -v' as root and send it? eth0: negotiated 100baseTx-HD, link ok product info: vendor 08:00:17, model 2 rev 1 basic mode: autonegotiation enabled basic status: autonegotiation complete, link ok capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD advertising: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control link partner: 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-HD -- Perry Hoekstra, MS E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From bgilbertson at stonel.com Thu Feb 7 07:19:27 2002 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LPR print from linux -> NT print server References: Message-ID: <3C627DF7.6946C9A1@stonel.com> Karen, It appears the printers are not configured correctly on the SUSE box. I haven't used SUSE so don't know what was used to setup printer (YAST?). In general modern Linux distros' GUI printer setup usually works well. Perhaps try remove & reinstall the printers on the SUSE box? Some comments mixed in below. HTH Bob Karen A Swanberg wrote: > > I now have a linux user (running SUSE) who wants to print to the printers. > I see doing this with one of two methods: printing directly to the printer > (opening the HP jetdirect to his IP, which is fine) or having him send the > print job to the print server. > > If the user send the job to the print server, the job prints out as the > postscript commands, rather than the formatted postscript output. If he > sends it directly to the printer, he gets postscript jibberish or nothing > at all. > > to do that then printing to the server. I've heard rumblings about port > 9100 printing, but that means nothing to me. port 9100 > HP JetDirect port port 515 > standard lpr port > I do have a samba server I could use to catch the lpr print jobs, and send > them onto the win server, but boy do I *not* want to do that. shouldn't be necessary Some addtl. info: http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/jsmeix_print-netzwerk.html http://www.linuxprinting.org/howto/ http://www.linuxprinting.org/howto/vendors.html#SUSE-WHAT-COMES-WITH http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1179.txt?number=1179 -kinda heavy reading From nate at techie.com Thu Feb 7 08:07:37 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> References: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020207140422.GA436@candle.dhs.org> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:24:24PM -0500, Nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > what are you useing and what dont you like? I've been using IceWM for the last 3-4 years. Pros: - It leaves a lot of screen real estate for applications - It's stable - Includes a simple task bar - Includes a command line in the task bar (CTRL+ALT+SPACE gets you there) - Handles multiple workspaces well with keys to move focus and windows between workspaces easily - Easy restarting of IceWM after a config file change, without having to close any windows. - Can maximize a window vertically, great for expanding editor windows - Supports but doesn't depend on Gnome Cons: - the number of workspaces is static, until you change it in the config file and restart IceWM. - config file reloading isn't automatic - command line in taskbar could use libreadline support Nate From list at slushpupie.com Thu Feb 7 08:22:07 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sysadmin 101 question In-Reply-To: <20020207110301.GB845@fandre.com> References: <20020207110301.GB845@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020207140644.B7EDFC6B66@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> This works fine if all you ant is the is a file to be owned by a particular group, but what if you also want to change the umask for a particular directory? Say you want your home directry so that no one else can read your stuff, but a shared "data" directory owned by "users" such that any file created in there would not only be ownend by users, but also writable by users? Jay On Thursday 07 February 2002 05:03 am, you wrote: > Yea, the setuid/setgid bits are probably one of the more confusing > aspects of a UNIX filesystem permissions. Basically you need to make > the directory setgid, and set the group of the directory to whatever > you want the files in it to be created as. > > # cd /tmp > # mkdir test > # chgrp audio test > # chmod g+ws test > > joeuser$ touch /tmp/test/testfile > joeuser$ ll /tmp/test/testfile > total 0 > -rw-r--r-- 1 cfandre audio 0 Feb 7 04:57 testfile > > Hmmm, maybe this would be a good topic at the next "newbie" meeting. > ;-) > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tim Wilson wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > Here's a very common sysadmin task that I want to make sure I do exactly > > right. My wife is home fulltime for the time being taking care of our > > new baby. While she's home she's got to use "my" computer. That makes > > her a Linux and KDE user by default. :-) I've got StarOffice all set up > > and she's having no trouble. > > > > I want to create a shared folder for "household" documents. Things that > > should be commonly owned by both of us. I've created a 'family' group > > and added the right user to the group, but I'm not sure how to set up > > the permission on the shared directory so that any files added will > > automatically have group ownership set to 'family'. > type="bold">I never really have understood all the stuff about sticky > > bits very well. > > > > I figure that I'll just leave the new family folder in my account and > > symlink to it from her /home. > > > > Any suggestions or hints? > > > > -Tim > > > > -- > > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- No violence, gentlemen -- no violence, I beg of you! Consider the furniture! -- Sherlock Holmes From bbaptist at iexposure.com Thu Feb 7 08:56:10 2002 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <200202071447.g17ElOB04341@destiny.iexposure.com> I have heard a ton of reports that the NetGear FA311 is the crappiest network card on the planet. I know of one distro that won't even support them. They refuse to put up with the problems that they have with the card. In fact they say that all the FA311 NICs that they find they bury in their back yard. I would have to recommend getting a couple of Intel EEPRO 100 NICs. Much better in my opinion, and it won't cost that much. The cost is worth it in the trouble you save. Just my opinion. Bret. On Thursday 07 February 2002 04:14 am, you wrote: > On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 12:37, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Typically, if you have frame or carrier errors, it's usually a bad cable. > > Could be your switch or card too. It's almost 100% not a configuration > > problem. > > Doh! > > Someone reminded me that I forgot to include the hardware configuration: > > - Abit KTA7 RAID Motherboard > - Athlon 1.4 GHz Thunderbird Processor > - RH 7.2 > - NetGear FA311 using the DP83810 Chipset and Natsemi driver > - LinkSys 10/100 5-port hub > > > I replaced the cable with a different one and moved the port to a > different one. I am still seeing significant packet loss. A ping to a > different box will result in about 15% packet loss. I have another card > but it is also a NetGear FA311. My next course of action is to find an > updater driver (if one exists) and install that. -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ if u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. From clay at fandre.com Thu Feb 7 09:13:20 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sysadmin 101 question In-Reply-To: <20020207140644.B7EDFC6B66@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> References: <20020207110301.GB845@fandre.com> <20020207140644.B7EDFC6B66@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <1013094204.3c62973c4f994@www.fandre.com> File/directory permissions are controlled via the users umask. There is no way to over-ride this using directory permissions/bits. You could change all your users' umask to 007. SAMBA does have this feature though. You can force certain bits on or off on a share level. Quoting Jay Kline : > > This works fine if all you ant is the is a file to be owned by a > particular > group, but what if you also want to change the umask for a particular > directory? Say you want your home directry so that no one else can read > your > stuff, but a shared "data" directory owned by "users" such that any file > > created in there would not only be ownend by users, but also writable by > > users? > > Jay > > On Thursday 07 February 2002 05:03 am, you wrote: > > Yea, the setuid/setgid bits are probably one of the more confusing > > aspects of a UNIX filesystem permissions. Basically you need to make > > the directory setgid, and set the group of the directory to whatever > > you want the files in it to be created as. > > > > # cd /tmp > > # mkdir test > > # chgrp audio test > > # chmod g+ws test > > > > joeuser$ touch /tmp/test/testfile > > joeuser$ ll /tmp/test/testfile > > total 0 > > -rw-r--r-- 1 cfandre audio 0 Feb 7 04:57 testfile > > > > Hmmm, maybe this would be a good topic at the next "newbie" meeting. > > ;-) > > > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Tim Wilson wrote: > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > Here's a very common sysadmin task that I want to make sure I do > exactly > > > right. My wife is home fulltime for the time being taking care of > our > > > new baby. While she's home she's got to use "my" computer. That > makes > > > her a Linux and KDE user by default. :-) I've got StarOffice all set > up > > > and she's having no trouble. > > > > > > I want to create a shared folder for "household" documents. Things > that > > > should be commonly owned by both of us. I've created a 'family' > group > > > and added the right user to the group, but I'm not sure how to set > up > > > the permission on the shared directory so that any files added > will > > > automatically have group ownership set to 'family'. > > type="bold">I never really have understood all the stuff about > sticky > > > bits very well. > > > > > > I figure that I'll just leave the new family folder in my account > and > > > symlink to it from her /home. > > > > > > Any suggestions or hints? > > > > > > -Tim > > > > > > -- > > > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > > > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > > > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > > > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Jay Kline > list@slushpupie.com > http://www.slushpupie.com > -- > No violence, gentlemen -- no violence, I beg of you! Consider the > furniture! > -- Sherlock Holmes > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 09:45:12 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> References: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020207093453.604c7ebc.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment and im > getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and which > ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? Well, I use sawfish (formerly known as sawmill) these days. It's fairly lightweight (though it definitely could be better), and supports lots of themes. It's largely written in Scheme, which is both good and bad. I tend to run into trouble when the window manager gets updated while running. It appears to dynamically load various routines, so if the file containing your exit routine goes away, you'll probably have to kill the X server to log out of an X session.. I use it largely because of the integration I get with Gnome, but there are many people out there who don't care about that stuff.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ You never really learn to / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ swear until you learn to \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) drive. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/c6b51920/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Feb 7 09:47:56 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D451@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I heard XFCE is nice. Haven't used it though. Fluxbox is supposed to be really sweet, but i haven't used that either. I used to use Windowmaker, but I switched to the darkside and now I use KDE. :) -----Original Message----- From: Nicksteeler12@cs.com To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Sent: 2/6/2002 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers you can download darwin from apples site but its just a prompt. i am looking for somthing simple like fluxbox. i am gunna try that but i want to know other options that are similar From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 7 10:00:43 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Arioso font problems in KDE In-Reply-To: <200201291729.g0THTY925399@localhost.localdomain> References: <200201291729.g0THTY925399@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1013096975.24308.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 11:29, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > I keep getting Arioso turned on for the editor within Konqueror. It is a pain > in the behind. (cursive fonts don't belong on a computer.) Perhaps you can find your answer here. http://www.google.com/search?q=arioso+konqueror *cough* *cough* -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/08fc7462/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 7 10:03:44 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ignore In-Reply-To: <200202070231.g172V7J07425@techmonkeys.org> References: <200202070231.g172V7J07425@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1013097407.24308.8.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 20:31, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > ping 1013049067 I know what will speed the list up!!!! Let _all_ send lame test messages keep perpetuating the whole discussion about how slow it is. That is definitely the solution. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/b88baf37/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 10:05:53 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] libfam.la In-Reply-To: <200201291803.g0TI3b928949@localhost.localdomain> References: <200201291803.g0TI3b928949@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20020207095710.A22701@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:03:37PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > What is 'libfam.la' in /usr/lib ? > > It is stopping 'make' with KBear and Geheimnis. What do you mean it is stopping make? Posting the error messages that you get would be helpful. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From wlayer at attbroadband.com Thu Feb 7 10:16:19 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: <105.10b5f6ea.299351ca@cs.com> References: <105.10b5f6ea.299351ca@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020207095935.42e53775.wlayer@attbroadband.com> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:43:06 EST Nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > you can download darwin from apples site but its just a prompt. i am looking > for somthing simple like fluxbox. i am gunna try that but i want to know > other options that are similar Personally, I use Blackbox - it's small, light, fast and very easy on resources. One important thing you'll need to think about; I don't believe that the version of Darwin x86 that you downloaded has XFree86 bundled with it. You'll probably have to compile X yourself or find some Darwin-x86 binaries, if they even exist. BTW - New version of blackbox v0.62.1 is out now. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 10:18:52 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Delaying hd writes In-Reply-To: <200202052237.14892@ellegon.com> References: <20020205221708.C8108@real-time.com> <200202052237.14892@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020207100312.6a6639c0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > Is there any obvious way to increase the interval until delayed disk writes > are commited? I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but there's a `noflushd' daemon that takes over the timing of disk writes (I think..) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Kleptomania: take something / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ for it. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/712f1ca7/attachment.pgp From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu Feb 7 10:21:38 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] problem with dynamic DNS updates Message-ID: <15458.42922.8131.429245@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> On Monday, I updated my Red Hat 7.1 box with the 2.4.9 kernel and the new X 4 packages. The kernel upgrade was really a "downgrade", because I had been using a 2.4.12 kernel I'd compiled. But I thought it might be better to run a stock kernel if I could. On Tuesday, I found that the 2.4.9 kernel from Red Hat didn't work as well as the homegrown 2.4.12 kernel I had been using. So all seems to be working fine now, but.... My local sysadmin tells me that I'm filling up the logs of the DNS server with attempts to do dynamic updates (which our server rejects). This started Monday, and is still going on. I am at my wits' end trying to figure out what the heck is doing this. I have been finding and grepping throughout /etc and every other place I can imagine that would hold configuration information, and I just can't find any invocations of nsupdate or anything else that looks suspicious. I can't find anything on google or any other search engine (dynamic dns update just gets a zillion responses about people who use it to get name service for their systems that don't have static IPs). Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone know what might be doing this aside from nsupdate? Many thanks, R From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 10:32:55 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest thoughts In-Reply-To: <1013021633.4611.67.camel@elgato> References: <3C612CAD.2070303@talkware.net> <02020609545000.18596@edith> <1013021633.4611.67.camel@elgato> Message-ID: <20020207102257.4a507efa.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> John Scherer wrote: > > Now, heres my thought: [snip] > My thought was having the router be the InstallNET backbone, with one > 10/100 enet drop to each switch. one switch per table. Then if they > need more drops at a table than the switch has available, they just add > a hub/switch to the existing switch at the table (under InstallFest > NetAdmin supervision) Sure, that sounds like a good idea to me. Hopefully, it'd make the network a bit more fault-tolerant. However, I worry about having a router be the same box as a server. IMO, it'd be best to have two boxes like this, one handling routing/DHCP, and the other just talking to the different networks and sharing data. Of course, this doubles cabling, and takes two ports on each switch rather than just one. Of course, if someone was feeling brave, the NFS/FTP/HTTP server could just have a gigabit NIC in it, and the router could have one gigabit plus several 10/100 cards. Then again, that still can cause problems if one of the NICs gets disabled on purpose or by accident. > PS: Someone though of adding something to the nametags at future > installfests to identify those who are _helpers_ or _admins_, great > idea. I did the nametags you saw at the past weekends fest, and could > add other info to the tags if desired. I would just need to know who > and what. Well, considering that most helpers are best at one or two distributions, it might be a good idea to leave space for one or two logos, or some other way of saying how good someone is at something. Things ranging from Newbie to Uber-h4x0r or Follower to Disciple to Diety.. Of course, there's only so much that can fit on such a little rectangle of paper.. Maybe we need to start giving out medals or other insignia ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ No. You said, "wet shirt / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ not break," not "piss shirt \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) bend bar!" [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/0548d947/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 10:48:02 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Domino for Linux et al... In-Reply-To: <20020129142411.54365.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020129142411.54365.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020207103227.40f498e3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > > Mike Jentges: Notes is only available as a server (aka > Domino) on linux - no linux client is avaialbe yet - > HOWEVER, depending on the implementation of the db's, > it's possible to use a web browser as a client - it > takes more work, and will require upgrading any db's > that are client-dependant. Using Notes through the web is a pain. From what I've seen, it uses a lot of Java applets that don't always work all that well. I've been able to get the Lotus Notes client to install and run via WINE 20011226 (currently in Debian testing), and that'd be my recommendation to anyone.. It's even flakier than the client running on Windows, but it seems to work well enough, and at a decent speed provided that you have a low-latency link between yourself and the server. If anyone knows of someone to pick on at IBM/Lotus about getting a Linux-native client, I'd love to hear about it. Basically, I just want to tell someone, ``I'm running Lotus Notes client on Linux through WINE. It works, but it's not as good as a native client would be. Please look into creating a new client for Linux, or porting your current client, possibly with WINElib.'' Of course, Notes is buggy as hell anyway, so if there's just a bug reporting site, that'd be some great info to get as well.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If you're not part of the / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ solution, you're part of \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) the precipitate. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/22e76657/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 10:49:31 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The future of desktop Linux... In-Reply-To: <200202070727.g177RKb05216@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201260834.g0Q8Yfb16570@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <200201290625.g0T6Plb23681@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020129160928.GA448@iucha.net> <200202070727.g177RKb05216@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020207103216.A22891@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 01:26:41PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Tuesday 29 January 2002 10:09 am, Florin Iucha wrote: > > My opinion on this thread gravitates around a few themes: > > 1. Linux is not a product. "RedHat Linux" is a product. > > Websters Dictionary: > Product > 1. Anything that is produced, whether as the result of > generation, growth, labor, or thought. Florin's point still holds. Linux is not a single product anymore than Unix is a single product or Microsoft Windows is. At most under Webster's permissive definition of "product" GNU/Linux is a diverse family of products including different software depending on who you ask and produced by a wide variety of people. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From esper at sherohman.org Thu Feb 7 11:09:32 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sysadmin 101 question In-Reply-To: <20020207140644.B7EDFC6B66@stc-matrix.chartermi.net>; from list@slushpupie.com on Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 08:06:56AM -0600 References: <20020207110301.GB845@fandre.com> <20020207140644.B7EDFC6B66@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> Message-ID: <20020207105939.A8962@sherohman.org> On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 08:06:56AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > This works fine if all you ant is the is a file to be owned by a particular > group, but what if you also want to change the umask for a particular > directory? You repeat "umasks are controlled by users, not the filesystem" to yourself until you get so sick of it that you write a kernel patch to allow directories to have them. > Say you want your home directry so that no one else can read your > stuff, but a shared "data" directory owned by "users" such that any file > created in there would not only be ownend by users, but also writable by > users? $ umask 002 $ chmod go-rwx /home/me It doesn't matter whether the files in your home dir are world- readable if the directory itself is inaccessible... Alternately, you can probably configure your system to create a separate group for each user instead of throwing everyone into the same default group. Your home dir (and most of your files) will then be owned by a group that you're the only member of, so 022 and 002 umasks are equivalent (unless you're in an sgid directory). -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 7 11:24:54 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sysadmin 101 question In-Reply-To: <20020207105939.A8962@sherohman.org> References: <20020207110301.GB845@fandre.com> <20020207140644.B7EDFC6B66@stc-matrix.chartermi.net> <20020207105939.A8962@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <1013102075.24308.12.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 10:59, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You repeat "umasks are controlled by users, not the filesystem" to > yourself until you get so sick of it that you write a kernel patch to > allow directories to have them. Or figure out a way to use ACLs -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/b3f7ff33/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 7 11:58:04 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ignore In-Reply-To: <1013097407.24308.8.camel@titanium.sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:56:47AM -0600 References: <200202070231.g172V7J07425@techmonkeys.org> <1013097407.24308.8.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020207114417.G32696@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:56:47AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > I know what will speed the list up!!!! Let _all_ send lame test messages > keep perpetuating the whole discussion about how slow it is. That is > definitely the solution. > Actually I was going to comment that there's only a ~10 minute turnaround on posts I send, not as fast as the ~45 seconds on another larger list I'm on, but definitely well within acceptable =) I also haven't noticed any of my posts being dropped, perhaps I'm lucky, it's more likely that it's a problem elsewhere. > -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Feb 7 13:08:39 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <3001.162.96.254.81.1012343405.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <3001.162.96.254.81.1012343405.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <49526.198.74.20.75.1013108254.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > > BTW, > > The Mailing List is still dropping posts.... dead = horse; cout << "lets move on" -munir > > Samir M. Nassar > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Thu Feb 7 13:10:14 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Messing with SMTP headers and Outlook In-Reply-To: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> References: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202071946.g17Jk5331002@flanders.workgroup> So much for using the Internet to "share" ideas... > Carl forwarded this to me, so I'm forwarding this to you. :-) > > http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q1/025865.html > > In particular... > > Yes. It's true that I run a mailing list that does not allow > posting from Windows users. Many people complain about this, but in > my mind I see it as no different than a restaurant or dance hall > having a dress code. It raises the bar for entry to the list, and > ensures that users really want to be there. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 7 13:12:19 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Message-ID: >>>Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > Well, both of which are bad, but I think it's more practical, at least in > anything but the longest run, to protect yourself by means likely to be more > effective than trying to talk people out of using Outlook right now. And when would be a better time to persuade people not to use the "swiss cheese of emailers"? > With > all its flaws, it does have features that are not easily reproducible, and it > is the standard. It is definitely NOT "the standard". I would expect "the standard" to send "standard" MIME attachments right out of the box. Having to process "winmail.dat" files is a PITA. The word "standard" is abused by mentioning it in the same sentence as that standard subverting menace of an emailer. Of course, groupwise is also pretty lame, but provides lots of "capabilities" too. Is vCal going to go anywhere soon? From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Feb 7 13:13:43 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ignore In-Reply-To: <1013097407.24308.8.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <200202070231.g172V7J07425@techmonkeys.org> <1013097407.24308.8.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202071300.33637@ellegon.com> On Thursday 07 February 2002 09:56 am, you wrote: > On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 20:31, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > ping 1013049067 > > I know what will speed the list up!!!! Let _all_ send lame test messages > keep perpetuating the whole discussion about how slow it is. That is > definitely the solution. I dunno. If a fairly small number of posts slows down a listserver appreciably, I don't think the problem is with the fairly small number of posts. Sounds to me, from previous discussion, that the problem is that the computer running the listserver has a lot on its metaphorical plate beyond running a simple, low-volume mailing list. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Feb 7 13:41:14 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202071323.14437@ellegon.com> On Thursday 07 February 2002 12:59 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>>Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > > > Well, both of which are bad, but I think it's more practical, at least in > > anything but the longest run, to protect yourself by means likely to be > > more effective than trying to talk people out of using Outlook right now. > > And when would be a better time to persuade > people not to use the "swiss cheese of emailers"? When there's a viable alternative -- from their POV. Read Jerry Pournelle's columns, for example. Jerry hates the flaws in Outlook, but he finds some of its features unavailable elsewhere, and very handy. If, say, Evolution could do the hard stuff -- handling of task assignments and meeting requests -- it would be a viable alternative for a lot of folks. Right now, it's just a nice email program that sort of looks like Outlook. Ditto for sylpheed. > > > With > > all its flaws, it does have features that are not easily reproducible, > > and it is the standard. > > It is definitely NOT "the standard". I guess we're arguing about definitions here. I do think that it is the standard in the business world, for example, and that millions of people use it. Is it good? Well, in many respects, no; in some respects, sure. Is it the standard? Yes. Does it use the MIME standards by default? Nah. > > I would expect "the standard" to send "standard" > MIME attachments right out of the box. Having > to process "winmail.dat" files is a PITA. > > The word "standard" is abused by mentioning > it in the same sentence as that standard subverting > menace of an emailer. > > Of course, groupwise is also pretty lame, but provides > lots of "capabilities" too. Is vCal going to go anywhere > soon? > I doubt it. If you look at where the heavy development in the open source world is, it's not for point-and-click tools to make the life of business users easier. To take another, minor example, look at the difference between what's available for PDAs in Windows apps -- let's not even discuss easily available; I still can't get mail to synchronize -- vs. Linux. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From nate at techie.com Thu Feb 7 14:24:15 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 10:21:23PM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20011031113319.A18447@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 10:21:23PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. > Although Linux as an operating system is free, the real costs are > related to the computers, and support and maintenance, he said." I think you can probably argue it either way. Windows vs Slackware Yeah, Windows TCO will probably be cheaper. It takes someone with some know-how to recompile packages and troubleshoot upgrades. Windows vs Mandrake/Redhat/SuSe While I haven't tried up2date yet, I figure the maintanance cost is similar here because of the amount of work that still goes into maintaining an RPM based system. Windows vs Debian Debian hands down. Debian handles all the upgrade hassles for you as far as figuring out what package depends on what other packages. Nate From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 7 14:31:21 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Message-ID: >>> Joel Rosenberg 02/07/02 01:29PM >>> On Thursday 07 February 2002 12:59 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > >>>Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): >> And when would be a better time to persuade >> people not to use the "swiss cheese of emailers"? >When there's a viable alternative -- from their POV. Read Jerry Pournelle's >columns, for example. Jerry hates the flaws in Outlook, but he finds some of >its features unavailable elsewhere, and very handy. >If, say, Evolution could do the hard stuff -- handling of task assignments >and meeting requests -- it would be a viable alternative for a lot of folks. >Right now, it's just a nice email program that sort of looks like Outlook. >Ditto for sylpheed. I've read Pournelle, and while I do have some respect for him, I don't agree with everything he has to say. The message I'm getting is "Don't use the stick until you have a really good carrot to go with it". I don't agree. Let someone else grow and prepare the carrots, but bring on the sticks if you've got 'em. Soften 'em up. >> > and it is the standard. >> It is definitely NOT "the standard". >I guess we're arguing about definitions here. I do think that it is the >standard in the business world, for example, and that millions of people use it. >Is it good? Well, in many respects, no; in some respects, sure. Is it the >standard? Yes. Does it use the MIME standards by default? Nah. Yes. We mean very different things when we say "the standard". Is it the standard? No. >>Is vCal going to go anywhere soon? >I doubt it. If you look at where the heavy development in the open source >world is, it's not for point-and-click tools to make the life of business >users easier. As far as I know, vCal isn't about 'point-and-click' anything. It is a calendaring exchange format/protocol standard. It could be perverted into a data storage format for such information also, and so provide a backend to any calendaring program. vCard is it's well known cousin. >To take another, minor example, look at the difference between what's >available for PDAs in Windows apps -- let's not even discuss easily >available; I still can't get mail to synchronize -- vs. Linux. Don't know about that, myself. Maybe someone else does... From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Feb 7 14:49:23 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202071435.36901@ellegon.com> On Thursday 07 February 2002 02:18 pm, you wrote: > >>> Joel Rosenberg 02/07/02 01:29PM >>> > > On Thursday 07 February 2002 12:59 pm, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > >>>Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > >> > >> And when would be a better time to persuade > >> people not to use the "swiss cheese of emailers"? > > > >When there's a viable alternative -- from their POV. Read Jerry > > Pournelle's columns, for example. Jerry hates the flaws in Outlook, but > > he finds some of its features unavailable elsewhere, and very handy. > >If, say, Evolution could do the hard stuff -- handling of task assignments > >and meeting requests -- it would be a viable alternative for a lot of > > folks. Right now, it's just a nice email program that sort of looks like > > Outlook. Ditto for sylpheed. > > I've read Pournelle, and while > I do have some respect for him, I don't > agree with everything he has to say. Me, neither. > > The message I'm getting is "Don't use > the stick until you have a really good > carrot to go with it". I don't agree. Let > someone else grow and prepare the > carrots, but bring on the sticks if you've > got 'em. Soften 'em up. Or, alternately, persuade people that these Linux wierdos will blame them for doing something for which they don't have any alternative. > > >> > and it is the standard. > >> > >> It is definitely NOT "the standard". > > > >I guess we're arguing about definitions here. I do think that it is the > >standard in the business world, for example, and that millions of people > > use it. Is it good? Well, in many respects, no; in some respects, sure. > > Is it the standard? Yes. Does it use the MIME standards by default? > > Nah. > > Yes. We mean very different things when > we say "the standard". Is it the standard? No. > > >>Is vCal going to go anywhere soon? > > > >I doubt it. If you look at where the heavy development in the open source > >world is, it's not for point-and-click tools to make the life of business > >users easier. > > As far as I know, vCal isn't about > 'point-and-click' anything. It is a calendaring > exchange format/protocol standard. Yup. Just like vCard -- and the use of vCard, where it is used, is largely in the point-and-click world, and it's not gotten terribly widespread adoption. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From fertch at mninter.net Thu Feb 7 14:53:07 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] POLL: window managers In-Reply-To: References: <80.172cdcf8.29933f58@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020207144505.7b77e223.fertch@mninter.net> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:48:01 -0600 (CST) "Joshua b. Jore" wrote: > BlackBox? That's a pretty Slackish window manager. The others just > require > way too many weird libraries. > > Joshua b. Jore > http://www.greentechnologist.org > > On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 Nicksteeler12@cs.com wrote: > > > i am looking for a new wm to use in slack. i was using enlightenment > and im > > getting sick of it. i want to know what window managers are good and > which > > ones arnt. what are you useing and what dont you like? I use fvwmn2. Can't say I've looked at Blackbox. I was using Gnome, couldn't stand it. Tried KDE, too much crap and takes too long to load... I'm happy with fvwmn2. Though, I'm about to blow away my RH7.2 install on my desktop. Too bloated and I don't like how things run on it... I want my zippy Slack install back =) Shawn From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 7 15:08:58 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Messing with SMTP headers and Outlook In-Reply-To: <200202071946.g17Jk5331002@flanders.workgroup> References: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> <200202071946.g17Jk5331002@flanders.workgroup> Message-ID: <02020714445300.19237@edith> Yes, lets share ideas, viruses, mail-bombs, and all that which goes along with the Lookout client by MS. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 07 February 2002 13:46, Jim Herrick wrote: > So much for using the Internet to "share" ideas... > > > Carl forwarded this to me, so I'm forwarding this to you. :-) > > > > http://crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002q1/025865.html > > > > In particular... > > ---Post trimmed by me: Kelly Black--- From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 7 15:22:19 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <200202071323.14437@ellegon.com> References: <200202071323.14437@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <02020714514101.19237@edith> Email != Schedule program What is wrong with having a collection of small apps that do each task well. I will never understand the "I need my email program to run my life" mentality. Why not have a schedule program that works along with a mail program that will grab the vCal or iCal's from the incoming mail. Thanks, Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 07 February 2002 13:29, Joel Rosenberg wrote: SNIP--- > When there's a viable alternative -- from their POV. Read Jerry Pournelle's > columns, for example. Jerry hates the flaws in Outlook, but he finds some > of its features unavailable elsewhere, and very handy. > > If, say, Evolution could do the hard stuff -- handling of task assignments > and meeting requests -- it would be a viable alternative for a lot of > folks. Right now, it's just a nice email program that sort of looks like > Outlook. Ditto for sylpheed. > SNIP--- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 15:38:01 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Messing with SMTP headers and Outlook In-Reply-To: <02020714445300.19237@edith> References: <20020128162951.U29795@real-time.com> <200202071946.g17Jk5331002@flanders.workgroup> <02020714445300.19237@edith> Message-ID: <20020207152027.A24389@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 02:44:53PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > Yes, > lets share ideas, viruses, mail-bombs, and all that which goes along with > the Lookout client by MS. OK, lets! To begin I'll have to try this one[1], since I don't think I have seen it here yet. Or just look at the slightly out of date list[2]. 1. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/28/1853253 2. http://www.rodos.net/outlook/ -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 7 15:40:25 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. Message-ID: >>> joelr@ellegon.com 02/07/02 02:38PM >>> >Or, alternately, persuade people that these Linux wierdos will blame them for >doing something for which they don't have any alternative. I don't tell clients "I'm a Linux wierdo, so don't use Outlook". I do inform them that the Outlook emailer does leave their "cheese in the wind". If the need features only Outlook has, then great, they can deal with the downside too. Most don't. >Yup. Just like vCard -- and the use of vCard, where it is used, is largely >in the point-and-click world, and it's not gotten terribly widespread >adoption. Because it's not all that useful in that context. It's a block waiting for someone to build something useful with it. I haven't had time. From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Feb 7 15:54:27 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202071543.3643@ellegon.com> On Thursday 07 February 2002 03:20 pm, you wrote: > >>> joelr@ellegon.com 02/07/02 02:38PM >>> > > > >Or, alternately, persuade people that these Linux wierdos will blame them > > for doing something for which they don't have any alternative. > > I don't tell clients "I'm a Linux wierdo, > so don't use Outlook". I do inform them > that the Outlook emailer does leave their > "cheese in the wind". If the need > features only Outlook has, then great, > they can deal with the downside too. > > Most don't. Well, good. > > >Yup. Just like vCard -- and the use of vCard, where it is used, is > > largely in the point-and-click world, and it's not gotten terribly > > widespread adoption. > > Because it's not all that useful in that > context. It's a block waiting for > someone to build something useful > with it. I haven't had time. > Oh, I think having a standard format for exchanging personal information is potentially terribly useful, but only if it's well-integrated with the way that people usually do things. As one of those Linux wierdos, I'd love to have, say, a Perl script that strips them out of incoming emails and adds them to my Palm address database; as one of those Linux wierdos who isn't a programmer, I'm going to have to wait until somebody who has the skills finds the time and inclination. Not holding my breath. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 16:11:38 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Outlook X-message-flag hack and its backlash; Feedback wanted. In-Reply-To: <200202071543.3643@ellegon.com> References: <200202071543.3643@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020207160958.A24514@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 03:49:22PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > Oh, I think having a standard format for exchanging personal information is > potentially terribly useful, but only if it's well-integrated with the way > that people usually do things. As one of those Linux wierdos, I'd love to > have, say, a Perl script that strips them out of incoming emails and adds > them to my Palm address database; as one of those Linux wierdos who isn't a > programmer, I'm going to have to wait until somebody who has the skills finds > the time and inclination. Well, the job is at least half done. Here is a link [1] to a little program that turn vcards into something that mutt can display. So that's an implementation for parsing vcards in perl, now you just need someone who wants to put them in the Palm address database. Alas, that is not me since I have no Palm Pilot. 1. http://www.davep.org/mutt/ -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From linux at rightwithgod.org Thu Feb 7 16:45:01 2002 From: linux at rightwithgod.org (Dave Erickson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <3C6455DC.1040707@rightwithgod.org> Perry Hoekstra wrote: >On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 12:37, Austad, Jay wrote: > >>Typically, if you have frame or carrier errors, it's usually a bad cable. >>Could be your switch or card too. It's almost 100% not a configuration >>problem. >> > >Doh! > >- NetGear FA311 using the DP83810 Chipset and Natsemi driver > How about using the "tulip" driver? works well for me, always has. Not sure which chipset I use though so perhaps my answer is worthless. From jts at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 18:43:02 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200202071927.g17JRnS12437@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Bob Tanner wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html I'm unable to access the above link -- "Document Not Found". > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Although Linux > as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the computers, and > support and maintenance, he said." > > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to let > the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? > > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a > distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then > Win2k. I think there are many situations where Windows is cheaper, at least in the short run. For many businesses with an established Windows infrastructure, it would be difficult to justify the potential costs and risks associated with the rollout of a replacement system (training costs, potential bugs, etc). In addition, most businesses using Windows have a heavy dependence on application software that runs only that platform (Microsoft Office, anyone?). Such businesses are likely to have also developed custom, in-house applications that require Windows. This makes it very difficult to completely eliminate their reliance on Windows -- even if linux offers an exceptional value proposition, there will be one or more "must have" applications that force them back to using Windows. As I see it, the web levels the playing field to some degree, as does samba and even Java, making it possible to cost-justify the use of non-windows systems (anything but Microsoft? [0]) on server machines in the corporate data center. Indeed, linux has helped revitalize IBM's mainframe sales [1]. In addition, linux has proven highly effective in clustering systems [2] [3] [4] and is also useful for embedded devices such as TiVO [5] and network attached storage [6]. Linux has definitely become a player in the enterprise IT scene [7]. Maybe some day Wine [8] [9] will realize its promise and help liberate the desktop (where Windows is already entrenched [10]) from its seemingly perpetual enthrallment to Microsoft. I'm not holding my breath, though. Could be a good time to start helping with Wine development ... blah blah blah Joel 0. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. From curtis at tcq.net Thu Feb 7 19:00:42 2002 From: curtis at tcq.net (Curtis Merchant) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <3C6455DC.1040707@rightwithgod.org> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <3C6455DC.1040707@rightwithgod.org> Message-ID: <200202080048.g180m2S16482@sprite.real-time.com> I remember having to pull a special driver before the 2.4.x kernel, but I do have the same card, and it is using netsemi On Friday 08 February 2002 04:49 pm, you wrote: > Perry Hoekstra wrote: > >On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 12:37, Austad, Jay wrote: > >>Typically, if you have frame or carrier errors, it's usually a bad cable. > >>Could be your switch or card too. It's almost 100% not a configuration > >>problem. > > > >Doh! > > > >- NetGear FA311 using the DP83810 Chipset and Natsemi driver > > How about using the "tulip" driver? works well for me, always has. > > Not sure which chipset I use though so perhaps my answer is worthless. > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From houle at citilink.com Thu Feb 7 19:17:01 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Users SIG/TCPC Linux on Saturday Message-ID: This Saturday February 9th the Twin Cities PC Users group (TC/PC) will hold it monthly Linux on Saturday meeting. The second Saturday being devoted to Linux and as always meeting are free and open to the public. It is geared toward the new Linux user and more of the basics. This Saturday Jack Ungerleider will start with a tour of Star Office that can be used with Linux or Windows among others. This program from Sun provides competition to the Microsoft family of office applications such as Word, Excel etc. The meeting begins at 9:00 AM till about 11:30 and is held at 2850 Metro Drive in Bloomington. This is about 4 blocks from the Mall of America. It is in Suite 124 which is on the lower level and free parking is available in the adjacent ramp. Further directions can be obtained from the TC/PC homepage at: http://www.tcpc.com TCLUG members are welcome to attend so please mark your calendar now. Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 7 19:35:06 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: References: <200202071927.g17JRnS12437@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020207191733.02104b16.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Joel T Schneider wrote: > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Bob Tanner wrote: > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html AAAAHH!! It's the thread that wouldn't die!! Sorry, but I did just notice that I got another message from Oct. 31st.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I like to reminisce with / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ people I don't know. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020207/38a142a0/attachment.pgp From jimstreit at northlans.com Thu Feb 7 21:48:02 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intrusion detector Message-ID: <200202080338.g183cIn03178@linuxserver.northlans.com> Thanks, maybe I'll give it a try. > Are all of these included with the RedHat 7.2 cd's > > > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:17:10PM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > > > OK, how? > > > > > > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you intrusion > detection? > > > > snort, tripwire > > > > > > > Can a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be installed on a > machine > > > with > > > > > only a couple hundred meg drive? > > > > > > > > Custom install.. > > > > > > > Does a RH 7.2 high firewall setting box give you site to site > VPN > > > > > support? > > > > [insert vpn tool here] > > > > > > > Can RH 7.2 high firewall setting box be monitored remotly? > > > > sshd, remote syslog > > > > -- > > Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and > BOFH Certified > > http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key > 0x01938203 > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Feb 7 23:58:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202072325.57102@ellegon.com> On Thursday 07 February 2002 06:34 pm, Joel T Schneider wrote: > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Bob Tanner wrote: > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > I'm unable to access the above link -- "Document Not Found". > > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Although > > Linux as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the > > computers, and support and maintenance, he said." > > > > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability > > to let the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and > > comment? > > > > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for > > a distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better > > TOC then Win2k. > > I think there are many situations where Windows is cheaper, at least in > the short run. > On the desktop, for many businesses, sure. TCO consists of a lot of things, among them training, and doing without. OS license fees really are a relatively small part of it. > For many businesses with an established Windows infrastructure, it would > be difficult to justify the potential costs and risks associated with > the rollout of a replacement system (training costs, potential bugs, etc). > Again, yup -- the time to make the move to Linux for the desktop is during startup. Once the way the business works depends on a Windows program -- any Windows program -- you're pretty much stuck. Servers are another matter -- as long as you're using standard protocols, the workstation doesn't care (or need to know) what the server's running. (Which, of course, is why Microsoft is so fond of proprietary protocols and formats -- see Exchange Server.) > In addition, most businesses using Windows have a heavy dependence on > application software that runs only that platform (Microsoft Office, > anyone?). If Sun does what I hope they're going to do with Star Office, I think that particular problem will go away -- 6.0 is definitely usable (I write books with it) -- but there's some real problems in smooth translation between .doc and .sxw, so far. Usable for plain vanilla stuff like I do, but definite glitches persist for more sophisticated documents. > Such businesses are likely to have also developed custom, > in-house applications that require Windows. This makes it very difficult > to completely eliminate their reliance on Windows -- even if linux offers > an exceptional value proposition, there will be one or more "must have" > applications that force them back to using Windows. Sure. If a sales force is used to Goldmine -- which sucks rocks, but is popular -- there's going to be some huge training issues in moving to a Linux counterpart (is there one? I honestly dunno). > > As I see it, the web levels the playing field to some degree, as does > samba and even Java, making it possible to cost-justify the use of > non-windows systems (anything but Microsoft? [0]) on server machines in > the corporate data center. Server machines, to simplify, provide protocols rather than programs, and as long as Microsoft can't "decommoditize" protocols and get people to rely on them, the stability and performance of various *nix OSes will give an advantage. Note the popularity of Apache, just to pick the obvious example. Indeed, linux has helped revitalize IBM's > mainframe sales [1]. In addition, linux has proven highly effective in > clustering systems [2] [3] [4] and is also useful for embedded devices > such as TiVO [5] and network attached storage [6]. Linux has definitely > become a player in the enterprise IT scene [7]. > > Maybe some day Wine [8] [9] will realize its promise and help liberate the > desktop (where Windows is already entrenched [10]) from its seemingly > perpetual enthrallment to Microsoft. I'm not holding my breath, though. Good idea -- the not holding your breath. It's been in development a long time, and still isn't nearly ready for prime time. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From dutchman at uswest.net Fri Feb 8 04:11:03 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <3C6455DC.1040707@rightwithgod.org> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <3C6455DC.1040707@rightwithgod.org> Message-ID: <1013162206.1811.4.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Fri, 2002-02-08 at 16:49, Dave Erickson wrote: > Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > >On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 12:37, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > >>Typically, if you have frame or carrier errors, it's usually a bad cable. > >>Could be your switch or card too. It's almost 100% not a configuration > >>problem. > >> > > > >Doh! > > > >- NetGear FA311 using the DP83810 Chipset and Natsemi driver > > > > How about using the "tulip" driver? works well for me, always has. > > Not sure which chipset I use though so perhaps my answer is worthless. A number of people have said to get a card that uses the tulip driver such as the Intel EE 10/100 as they have had better success with cards that use that driver. -- Perry Hoekstra, MS E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Feb 8 08:21:02 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic Network Problem In-Reply-To: <1013162206.1811.4.camel@ix.norsemen.org>; from dutchman@uswest.net on Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:56:44AM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514BEA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013076889.6875.9.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <3C6455DC.1040707@rightwithgod.org> <1013162206.1811.4.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <20020208080724.J32696@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:56:44AM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > A number of people have said to get a card that uses the tulip driver > such as the Intel EE 10/100 as they have had better success with cards > that use that driver. I use the eepro100 drive for my intel eepro100 based cards, but yes, the tulip driver is quite amazing. > > -- > Perry Hoekstra, MS -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 8 09:36:24 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting help and iptables References: <3BDEFEA4.C4F5C764@mninter.net> <20011030151343.A28696@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <3BE04E52.1E7EB68F@mninter.net> Eric Stanley wrote: > This sounds like the same problem I had. Since it is kernel v2.4.5 is > it Slackware 8.0? If so, I did several things and I'm not sure what > fixed it, but here's what I'd try if I were doing it again. Yes, Slack 8.0. > > > The module(s?) you want are ip_tables and iptable_filter. They are > both located in /lib/modules/2.4.5/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter. Make > sure they are loaded. Okay, here's my rc.iptables file. I noticed that I'm not loading the iptable_filter, but I also get the message that the nat table isn't found. Same thing? BTW, I took this script out of last month's LJ. #!/bin/sh PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin export PATH IPT=/usr/sbin/iptables echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward insmod ip_tables insmod ip_nat_ftp insmod ip_conntrack_ftp for i in filter nat mangle do $IPT -t $i -F $IPT -t $i -X done $IPT -t filter -N tcprules $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ppp+ -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ! ppp+ -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ppp+ -m state --state NEW,INVALID -j DROP $IPT -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp+ -s 10.0.0.0/24 -d 0/0 -j MASQUERADE $IPT -t filter -A INPUT -j tcprules $IPT -t filter -A FORWARD -j tcprules $IPT -t filter -P INPUT DROP $IPT -t filter -P FORWARD DROP echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > If that doesn't work, upgrade to iptables 1.2.4 (Slack comes with > 1.2.3). You'll probably want to remove the iptables package first. > > If that doesn't work recompile the kernel with the appropriate > configuration and install that kernel. Unfortunately, if it comes to recompiling the kernel I'm not familiar with that procedure and haven't the foggiest on what to do there. Yeah, yeah, I know "read the kernel how-to." Unfortunately, haven't had time to. From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 8 12:15:40 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] p5/166 cpu boards for Proliant 2000 References: <3C6096F3.9020003@talkware.net> Message-ID: <3C641388.DA9FAF3B@mninter.net> Eric Estabrooks wrote: > I'm looking for cpu boards for a Compaq Proliant 2000. Cheap is good, > it's an old machine that I recently inherited. > > Thanks, I believe I have just this board. No processor though. Shawn From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 8 13:05:10 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200202081814.g18IEeS28675@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Mike Hicks wrote: > Joel T Schneider wrote: > > > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Bob Tanner wrote: > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > AAAAHH!! It's the thread that wouldn't die!! > > Sorry, but I did just notice that I got another message from Oct. 31st.. Now that you mention it -- on Feb 7 I received "tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1584 - 1 msg" containing a single message dated Oct 30. Not noticing the date on the message, I responded to it. Hmmm. From chrome at real-time.com Fri Feb 8 13:27:19 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 10:21:23PM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20011031122506.B28359@real-time.com> > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a > distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then > Win2k. I think you mean 'TCO'... Total Cost of Ownership. TOC (to me) means Table Of Contents. so your subject line was confusing at first. :) Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Feb 8 13:54:44 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DCE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DCE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <1013020741.20629.88.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 11:58, Austad, Jay wrote: > Is your clock set to GMT in the BIOS or CST? Run /stand/sysinstall and use > the time config stuff there. Make sure you answer the BIOS clock question > correctly. Hrm.... Guess I never thought of that. It doesn't seem to matter what you tell the BIOS in linux. I'll have to shut that pig down this weekend and check that out. thanks. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020208/5e20e5e7/attachment.pgp From jima at gimp.damnation.net Fri Feb 8 13:56:41 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Anyone got an LCD projector? Message-ID: Does anyone by any chance have an LCD projector that I could borrow for a presentation next week? If so, please e-mail me off-list. Thanks. Jima From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Feb 8 14:11:46 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: FreeBSD system time issues In-Reply-To: <1013020741.20629.88.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DCE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <1013020741.20629.88.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <1013198619.28839.2.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 12:39, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Hrm.... Guess I never thought of that. It doesn't seem to matter what > you tell the BIOS in linux. I'll have to shut that pig down this weekend > and check that out. The resend of this mail was done by using mutt's "b" key (which is bounce) I figured i'd just test to see if it works and didn't assign a new date stamp. Looks like mailman needs some dupe checking... Personally i think someone's been "b" keying alot of the old mails we've all been seeing. It would require more investigation than I care to do, but it's a definite possibility. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020208/243b3521/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 8 14:15:31 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest References: Message-ID: <3BE050A0.68860BB3@mninter.net> I would so long as it's not on a day that conflicts with anything. Munir Nassar wrote: > I am still looking for places to host the installfest, and now that the > AFCSME strike is over MCTC is a viable option again. I talked to Dana, > the Network Administrator at MCTC and he is amiable to the idea and has > suggested a few Rooms that we can use. > > The question is: There may be a charge for using the room, it will > probably be not much but since the TC-LUG tresury(sp?) has active funds of > about $0s would you be willing to chip in $10 a head for rent and -if > there is enough left over- Pizza and Drinks? > > -Munir From wilson at visi.com Fri Feb 8 14:20:07 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X login not working anymore Message-ID: Hi eveyone, We had a brief power outage last night (all too common unfortunately) and my workstation seems to be having trouble as a result. I use kdm to log in normally, but now it just restarts and I can't log in as anyone but root. And root can only log in using 'failsafe' mode. Note, I can log in from a tty with no problem. It seems to be a kdm/X problem. Does anyone know which runlevel is a non-X login on Debian? I remember from the past that RedHat used runlevel 5 for graphical login and runlevel 3 for text-based. Default runlevel on Debian is 2. If I can kill kdm completely then I can try a 'startx' and capture the error output. Does anyone remember the command line to do that? It's something like: % startx %1> %2 blah blah blah I'd love to hear ideas. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 8 14:43:02 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X login not working anymore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020208203314.GA779@iucha.net> I hope the answer is not too late to help you :) On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 12:26:28PM -0600, Timothy Wilson wrote: > If I can kill kdm completely then I can try a 'startx' and capture the error > output. Does anyone remember the command line to do that? It's something > like: > > % startx %1> %2 blah blah blah > > I'd love to hear ideas. Get into a tty, login as root and /etc/init.d/kdm stop Then you can start X with startx. But as kdm is started fine, I suspect it is not a problem with the X config, but more likely with your user's KDE configs. Login on a tty as that user and rename .kde to .kde.save and try to login from kdm. Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020208/12b3f29d/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Feb 8 14:44:59 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X login not working anymore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013200867.28839.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2001-10-31 at 12:26, Timothy Wilson wrote: > Hi eveyone, Word. > I use kdm to log in normally, but now it just restarts and I can't log in as > anyone but root. And root can only log in using 'failsafe' mode. Note, I can > log in from a tty with no problem. It seems to be a kdm/X problem. sounds like there's a /tmp/.X0-lock file. rm it. > Does anyone know which runlevel is a non-X login on Debian? I remember from > the past that RedHat used runlevel 5 for graphical login and runlevel 3 for > text-based. Default runlevel on Debian is 2. X spawns from an init script in debian, not from inittab. To make it stop trying to start, ssh in and run "update-rc.d -f xdm remove" > > If I can kill kdm completely then I can try a 'startx' and capture the error > output. Does anyone remember the command line to do that? It's something > like: > > % startx %1> %2 blah blah blah > startx 2>&1>filename should do the trick > I'd love to hear ideas. I can think of all sorts of stuff, most of which is useless :-) -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020208/27437095/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 8 15:00:03 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: <3BE050A0.68860BB3@mninter.net> References: <3BE050A0.68860BB3@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020208144340.05bc8024.fertch@mninter.net> On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:27:28 -0600 Shawn wrote: > I would so long as it's not on a day that conflicts with anything. > > What the heck is going on? This is the second one that has come through today with old time stamps..... From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 8 15:18:56 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X login not working anymore In-Reply-To: <1013200867.28839.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <1013200867.28839.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <02020814554100.32429@edith> Try CTRL-ALT-F1 and login as your favorite root user, and have fun finding what's wrong by tailing the log files (X startup log). Probably a tmp file keeping it from starting up, I had the same trouble with my wife's machine and it had a temp file that would not allow X to go, I removed it and it went okey dokey. Need to get my daughter to stop thinking the glowing lights on the front of the box mean that you "don't" push the button! Kelly Black KB0GBJ From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Feb 8 16:54:46 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question: Is this list moderated In-Reply-To: <49526.198.74.20.75.1013108254.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> References: <3001.162.96.254.81.1012343405.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <49526.198.74.20.75.1013108254.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <200202082257.g18MvBJ04600@localhost.localdomain> Read Time Stamp Obviously Not From churchid at visi.com Fri Feb 8 19:09:01 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X login not working anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Timothy Wilson > We had a brief power outage last night (all too common > unfortunately) and my > workstation seems to be having trouble as a result. Though it's obviously too late to help you this time, Micro Center has a special on Back-UPS Pro 1100VA UPS - it's $149.99, regularly $309. Good through 2/10/02. Might be a good investment for you if you suffer frequent short outages. Dan From uak at nerp.net Fri Feb 8 19:10:32 2002 From: uak at nerp.net (uak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG msg at installfest In-Reply-To: <200202082257.g18MvBJ04600@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I sent a msg to the TCLUG at the last installfest and I think I lost it there. Anyone happen to spot it? All it said was "ping". thx, uak. From spencer at autonomous.tv Fri Feb 8 19:58:01 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: <20020208144340.05bc8024.fertch@mninter.net> References: <3BE050A0.68860BB3@mninter.net> <20020208144340.05bc8024.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <01561457602449@arnan.com> On Friday 08 February 2002 02:43 pm, you wrote: > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:27:28 -0600 > > Shawn wrote: > > I would so long as it's not on a day that conflicts with anything. > > What the heck is going on? This is the second one that has come through > today with old time stamps..... > It is all Jima's fault. He brought up halloween, and well..... there you have it. -- -- Spencer Butler Twin Cities Open Systems spencer@tcopensys.org | Open Source Solutions http://tcopensys.org | Every Day Solutions Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 From spencer at autonomous.tv Fri Feb 8 20:32:23 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slack Install Message-ID: <02283643802516@arnan.com> I am installing Slackware on a Compaq Armada 4150. Pentium 150 and 16M RAM. I am installing over NFS with a wireless NIC. I downloaded the ISO from linuxiso.com. I mounted the ISO as a loop device and the install starts flawlessly. However, before it can make it past its first directory of packages I get errors. tar errors Grandchild . to no avail. Has anyone seen symptoms like these before. Does anyone have any suggestions for installing Linux on the RAM defiecient lappy? RH wants 24M for a remote install. It just takes soooo long to boot off of all four floppies to just get disapointed by the same error. thanks From chrome at real-time.com Fri Feb 8 20:55:33 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Nitpicking was Re: [TCLUG] Linux Partitions In-Reply-To: <3BDF60AB.7060501@haxxed.mine.nu>; from seg@haxxed.mine.nu on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 08:23:39PM -0600 References: <20011030200328.C24642@beaver.iucha.org> <3BDF60AB.7060501@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20011031124041.C28359@real-time.com> > Hitler was also an accomplished artist. I rather differ on that point. I've seen some of his work... his paintings were pretty ordinary... street scenes, architecturally interesting buildings... that's about all that I've seen. nothing exceptional. of course, it could be that all his great work was destroyed/suppressed after the war. :) (History being written by the victors, and all that). He fancied himself rather something of an architect... supposedly spent quite a bit of time during the war planning out the great capital city he would have at the end, rather than paying attention to how the war was going. downright criminal waste. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Feb 8 21:40:52 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Unreal Tournament installation problems Message-ID: <200202090336.g193aYJ05368@localhost.localdomain> I am getting the following error message when installing Unreal Tournament Game of the Year Edition: Uncompressing Unreal Tournament version 436-GOTY Linux install......................................................................... ERROR: No matching delta for /usr/local/games/ut/System/UMenu.u Does anyone know what to do with this? I did search on google. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From j at 4dvfx.com Fri Feb 8 22:13:46 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video card driver problem Message-ID: <001201c1b11f$3eade1d0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> hello, I'm having issues with getting my new video card setup properly, and I'm hoping that the problem is just me and my inexperience. I'm just not sure what I might have done wrong, or what else to try. here's the deal: I have an Athlon 1700 with an SGI VR3 Quadro video card. The card is basically a standard nVidia Quadro but put out by SGI. This card was initially released only in SGI's 330 and 550 NT/Linux boxes. SGI has some files on their site, but I'm not sure if these are to be used only with their workstations, or anytime you use this card. ( http://support.sgi.com/linux/downloads/ ) Their files are all older, and because everything I've found says that they use the same drivers that nVidia puts out, I installed the most current drivers from nVidia's site. ( http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=linux ) The install went very smoothly (as far as I can tell), but when I try to startx, it won't go, and I get an error saying: (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVdriver kernel module (EE) NVIDIA(0): *** Aborting *** (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a (EE) Screen(s) found but none have a usable configuration Fatal server error: no screens found would anyone be able to push me in the right direction to figure this out. I'm not sure what info may be the most helpful to someone wanting to help, but let me know and I'll supply what I can. If it matters, I'm running Red Hat 7.1 with kernel 2.4.17. thanks in advance for any help, Jeff Schmidt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020208/0f4cb347/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Fri Feb 8 22:35:40 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Speed Network Connection In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 09:11:36PM -0600 References: <3BDF3C5B.4050405@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20011031124425.D28359@real-time.com> > Reeeaaaalllyy... that's interesting! It always bothered me that ethernet > could be up to 200 Mbit/sec (400 full duplex) if someone would just make > use of those extra pairs. No recabling needed, no change in BICSI > standards, just switches and NICS that are smarter than the average NIC. there is a 100base-T4 which uses all four pairs. I don't know what it offers over regular 10base-T. I think some 3com cards use it. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From andy at theasis.com Fri Feb 8 22:47:04 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video card driver problem In-Reply-To: <001201c1b11f$3eade1d0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: > (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVdriver kernel module > (EE) NVIDIA(0): *** Aborting *** Go to the NVIDIA website, follow the drivers --> linux links. Get the .tar.gz for each of these: NVIDIA_kernel-1.0-2314.tar.gz NVIDIA_GLX-1.0-2313.tar.gz Then it's a pretty simple "make install" for each -- as described in http://205.158.109.140/XFree86_40/1.0-2313/README.txt, which you can get to from the link at the bottom of the linux driver page. Good luck, Andy > Jeff Schmidt > From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Feb 8 23:22:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video card driver problem In-Reply-To: <001201c1b11f$3eade1d0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> References: <001201c1b11f$3eade1d0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <200202082308.21353@ellegon.com> On Friday 08 February 2002 10:07 pm, you wrote: > hello, > I'm having issues with getting my new video card setup properly, and > I'm hoping that the problem is just me and my inexperience. I'm just not > sure what I might have done wrong, or what else to try. here's the deal: > > I have an Athlon 1700 with an SGI VR3 Quadro video card. The card is > basically a standard nVidia Quadro but put out by SGI. This card was > initially released only in SGI's 330 and 550 NT/Linux boxes. SGI has some > files on their site, but I'm not sure if these are to be used only with > their workstations, or anytime you use this card. ( > http://support.sgi.com/linux/downloads/ ) Their files are all older, and > because everything I've found says that they use the same drivers that > nVidia puts out, I installed the most current drivers from nVidia's site. ( > http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=linux ) The install went very smoothly > (as far as I can tell), but when I try to startx, it won't go, and I get an > error saying: > > (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVdriver kernel module > (EE) NVIDIA(0): *** Aborting *** > (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a > (EE) Screen(s) found but none have a usable configuration > > Fatal server error: > no screens found > > > would anyone be able to push me in the right direction to figure this out. > I'm not sure what info may be the most helpful to someone wanting to help, > but let me know and I'll supply what I can. If it matters, I'm running Red > Hat 7.1 with kernel 2.4.17. > > thanks in advance for any help, > > Jeff Schmidt -- I'm getting exactly the same problem; if you find a solution, please let me know. In the interim, by replacing "nvidia" with "nv" in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 , I can use the default nvidia drivers, rather than the spiffy new ones from NVidia. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From rahrenstorff at yahoo.com Sat Feb 9 00:15:40 2002 From: rahrenstorff at yahoo.com (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new box compatability In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have nearly the same thing: AMD 1.0Ghz-C and K7S5A Mobo 256MB PC2100 DDR (slightly old) TNT2 Viper 770 32MB AGP card 20GB Maxtor (Linux) and 12GB Maxtor (Win98se) 16X DVD TDK Velos 16/10/40 CDRW Iomega Zip 250MB USB Internet connection is via cable modem (AT&T) I am just now loading Mandrake 8.1. I can tell you that the nVidia drivers for Linux are very good and up-to-date. They are really quite easy to install, even for this newbie. I'll let you know what problems arise... -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob W. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:53 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] new box compatability Hi: I'm planning on getting a new computer and would appreciate any feedback re: the Linux compatibility of the hardware. Athlon 1.2G-C CPU with K7S5a mb, heatsink, fan. 512MB PC2100 DDR memory GeForce2 MX 400 64MB AGP Video card IBM 40G 7200 rpm HD Mid Tower ATX Case w/AMD approved 300w PS Your comments please. Bob W. Anderson Newport _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Sat Feb 9 01:50:02 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new box compatability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202090739.g197dDb06205@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Holy delayed delivery Batman...why did this just show up on the list? I wrote that in October! It's like getting mail from a dead relative. On Wednesday 31 October 2001 12:48 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > I have nearly the same thing: > > AMD 1.0Ghz-C and K7S5A Mobo > 256MB PC2100 DDR > (slightly old) TNT2 Viper 770 32MB AGP card > 20GB Maxtor (Linux) and 12GB Maxtor (Win98se) > 16X DVD > TDK Velos 16/10/40 CDRW > Iomega Zip 250MB USB > Internet connection is via cable modem (AT&T) > > I am just now loading Mandrake 8.1. I can tell you that the nVidia drivers > for Linux are very good and up-to-date. They are really quite easy to > install, even for this newbie. I'll let you know what problems arise... > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob W. Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:53 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] new box compatability > > > Hi: > > I'm planning on getting a new computer and would appreciate any feedback > re: the Linux compatibility of the hardware. > > Athlon 1.2G-C CPU with K7S5a mb, heatsink, fan. > 512MB PC2100 DDR memory > GeForce2 MX 400 64MB AGP Video card > IBM 40G 7200 rpm HD > Mid Tower ATX Case w/AMD approved 300w PS > > Your comments please. > > Bob W. Anderson > Newport > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jts at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 9 04:48:01 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200202090307.g19373S01556@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I think you mean 'TCO'... Total Cost of Ownership. Reminds me of a quip I heard recently. A few years back, computer rooms used to be populated by little purple and green creatures called MIPS. Nowadays, the little creatures called TCOs have taken over. From florin at iucha.net Sat Feb 9 09:58:01 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: References: <200202090307.g19373S01556@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020209154753.GA453@iucha.net> On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 04:44:50AM -0600, Joel T Schneider wrote: > On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > I think you mean 'TCO'... Total Cost of Ownership. > > Reminds me of a quip I heard recently. A few years back, computer rooms > used to be populated by little purple and green creatures called MIPS. > Nowadays, the little creatures called TCOs have taken over. ... only they are beige... florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020209/372eae74/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Sat Feb 9 15:04:03 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability Message-ID: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were unplugged. Anyone have any hints on this? Jay -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you. From leif at mn.rr.com Sat Feb 9 15:36:01 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: Did you upgrade just the CPU or did you upgrade the mobo as well? If you didn't upgrade the mobo, I presume it ran fine with whatever K7 CPU you had on there before. If you did upgrade the mobo.... What chipset is the CPU running on? Are you overclocking? If your motherboard is an Abit, there's a good chance that may be at the root of the problems....Abits aren't known for their stability especially with the Via chipsets for K7 CPUs. Abits usually lead the pack with RMAs. I only ask these questions b/c I've found most Athlon stability problems have more to do with the chipset/particular mobo the CPU is resting on than Intel CPUs. Of course, that's just my gut feeling. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Kline > Anyone have any hints on this? From kent at structural-wood.com Sat Feb 9 15:53:04 2002 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <3C659876.5DD1BAF4@structural-wood.com> Jay Kline wrote: > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been having my > computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or > whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on boot, > and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock up, > other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing > in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were unplugged. > Anyone have any hints on this? > > Jay > Is your machine locked up, or is X locked up? I've got an Athlon 800 which is occasionally locking up in X, but I can log in from a terminal and kill X, and everything works fine after that (until it locks up again). The mem=nopentium option doesn't seem to have any affect on this problem, as far as I can tell. I have run this machine for a year with RedHat 6.1 and a 2.2.18 kernel without troubles. The lockup has begun since I upgraded to RedHat 7.1 with it's default 2.4.x kernel. From jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 9 16:10:04 2002 From: jonathankl_2001 at yahoo.com (Jonathan A.Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <20020209155533.09bcdc2c.jonathankl_2001@yahoo.com> This is a known Athlon Bug... Details can be found at www.gentoo.org On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:49:04 -0600 Jay Kline wrote: > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been having my > computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or > whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on boot, > and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock up, > other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing > in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were unplugged. > Anyone have any hints on this? > > Jay > > > -- > Jay Kline > list@slushpupie.com > http://www.slushpupie.com > -- > Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From j at 4dvfx.com Sat Feb 9 16:28:04 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209155533.09bcdc2c.jonathankl_2001@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c1b1b8$752d5ad0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> This isn't actually a bug though. What it is is Intel changed the memory page size (sorry if I'm wrong on what to call this) from 4k to 4mg, but noone else did. so when your AGP cards are being accessed, the kernel is trying to get then to use 4mg sized page files but nonIntel chips can't, so they lock up. This mostly seems to happen when the cards are being used heavily (i.e. gaming, 3D animation, etc.) Hopefully a better fix will come out than the mem=nopentium one. Now if I could only get this damn SGI card to work.... Jeff > This is a known Athlon Bug... Details can be found at www.gentoo.org > > On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:49:04 -0600 > Jay Kline wrote: > > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been having my > > computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or > > whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on boot, > > and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock up, > > other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing > > in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were unplugged. > > Anyone have any hints on this? > > > > Jay > > > > > > -- > > Jay Kline > > list@slushpupie.com > > http://www.slushpupie.com > > -- > > Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you. > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From list at slushpupie.com Sat Feb 9 17:05:03 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <3C659876.5DD1BAF4@structural-wood.com> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <3C659876.5DD1BAF4@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20020209225500.4E5BF60325@friday.localdomain.fake> No, it really dies. Occationally if there is sound playing when it happens, I get the ever-so-plesant single tone chirp of whatever it was on when the system stoped. On Saturday 09 February 2002 03:45 pm, you wrote: > Jay Kline wrote: > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the > > "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium > > option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what > > triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS > > in X). There is nothing in any log files I can find- it is almost as if > > the computer were unplugged. Anyone have any hints on this? > > > > Jay > > Is your machine locked up, or is X locked up? I've got an Athlon 800 which > is occasionally locking up in X, but I can log in from a terminal and kill > X, and everything works fine after that (until it locks up again). > > The mem=nopentium option doesn't seem to have any affect on this problem, > as far as I can tell. > > I have run this machine for a year with RedHat 6.1 and a 2.2.18 kernel > without troubles. The lockup has begun since I upgraded to RedHat 7.1 with > it's default 2.4.x kernel. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Tell the truth or trump--but get the trick. -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar" From list at slushpupie.com Sat Feb 9 17:06:58 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020209225814.DDFFB60325@friday.localdomain.fake> > Did you upgrade just the CPU or did you upgrade the mobo as well? Yes, had to upgrade both. Went from a K6-3 on a Tyan board (VIA chipset) to the Athlon on a SiS chipset board (dont remember the manufactur off hand) > If you didn't upgrade the mobo, I presume it ran fine with whatever K7 CPU > you had on there before. > > If you did upgrade the mobo.... > > What chipset is the CPU running on? Are you overclocking? If your > motherboard is an Abit, there's a good chance that may be at the root of > the problems....Abits aren't known for their stability especially with the > Via chipsets for K7 CPUs. Abits usually lead the pack with RMAs. SiS chipset, no overclocking... > I only ask these questions b/c I've found most Athlon stability problems > have more to do with the chipset/particular mobo the CPU is resting on than > Intel CPUs. Of course, that's just my gut feeling. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Kline > > > > Anyone have any hints on this? > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Don't get stuck in a closet -- wear yourself out. From list at slushpupie.com Sat Feb 9 17:08:36 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <001901c1b1b8$752d5ad0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209155533.09bcdc2c.jonathankl_2001@yahoo.com> <001901c1b1b8$752d5ad0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <20020209230110.B227460325@friday.localdomain.fake> My understanding was the problem was not that the kernel couldnt reach the memory, but that the kernel was not keeping proper track of the memory, and that AGP and System memory could potentially overlap, and when it did, bad things happened. I also am not an expert, so if anyone really understands what is going on, and can explain it in simple terms, I am sure many would aprechiate it. Also, setting mem=nopentium should resolve the problem, because it limits the memory page sizes.. it just gives you a performance hit. I have done this, and am still having the problems. On Saturday 09 February 2002 04:23 pm, you wrote: > This isn't actually a bug though. What it is is Intel changed the memory > page size (sorry if I'm wrong on what to call this) from 4k to 4mg, but > noone else did. so when your AGP cards are being accessed, the kernel is > trying to get then to use 4mg sized page files but nonIntel chips can't, so > they lock up. This mostly seems to happen when the cards are being used > heavily (i.e. gaming, 3D animation, etc.) Hopefully a better fix will come > out than the mem=nopentium one. Now if I could only get this damn SGI card > to work.... > > Jeff > > > This is a known Athlon Bug... Details can be found at www.gentoo.org > > > > On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:49:04 -0600 > > > > Jay Kline wrote: > > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > having my > > > > computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or > > > whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on > > boot, > > > > and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock > > up, > > > > other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is > > nothing > > > > in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were > > unplugged. > > > > Anyone have any hints on this? > > > > > > Jay > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Jay Kline > > > list@slushpupie.com > > > http://www.slushpupie.com > > > -- > > > Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- You enjoy the company of other people. From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Sat Feb 9 17:21:05 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability Message-ID: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> the other major thing is the software you have running. if you have windows running its always gunna be more crashprone then UNIX. try different software to see if somthing running in the background is either conflicting with the software or mabye the software you are trying to run is reliant on somthing that isnt there. iduno though, im still kindof a n00b. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020209/5288913f/attachment.htm From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 9 17:53:02 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <001901c1b1b8$752d5ad0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209155533.09bcdc2c.jonathankl_2001@yahoo.com> <001901c1b1b8$752d5ad0$7e01a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <20020209173656.3848f9d4.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Jeff Schmidt" wrote: > > This isn't actually a bug though. What it is is Intel changed the memory > page size (sorry if I'm wrong on what to call this) from 4k to 4mg, but > noone else did. so when your AGP cards are being accessed, the kernel is > trying to get then to use 4mg sized page files but nonIntel chips can't, so > they lock up. This mostly seems to happen when the cards are being used > heavily (i.e. gaming, 3D animation, etc.) Hopefully a better fix will come > out than the mem=nopentium one. Now if I could only get this damn SGI card > to work.... Er, I've been confused about this. I thought that even 386s could do 4MB page sizes (I think you needed a 386DX for that). Then again, maybe it's a new feature to be doing both page sizes at the same time.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ "Were they sent to Hell?" / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ "Worse. Wisconsin." \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020209/49cc6223/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 9 17:54:39 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Jay Kline wrote: > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been having my > computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or > whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on boot, > and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock up, > other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing > in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were unplugged. > Anyone have any hints on this? Do you have a relatively recent kernel (>2.4.10)? I know I had problems with earlier ones, especially when the system ran out of memory. Do you have a mem/swap/cpu meter going on your desktop anywhere? It might help analyze the problem. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ They're only trying to make / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ me LOOK paranoid! \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020209/d85b141e/attachment.pgp From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Feb 9 18:44:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200202091835.09448@ellegon.com> On Saturday 09 February 2002 05:39 pm, you wrote: > Jay Kline wrote: > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the > > "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium > > option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what > > triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS > > in X). There is nothing in any log files I can find- it is almost as if > > the computer were unplugged. Anyone have any hints on this? > > Do you have a relatively recent kernel (>2.4.10)? I know I had problems > with earlier ones, especially when the system ran out of memory. Do you > have a mem/swap/cpu meter going on your desktop anywhere? It might help > analyze the problem. Try installing the memtest image and putting something like image=/boot/memtest label=memtest root=/dev/md0 read-only optional vga=normal in your /etc/lilo.conf, then rerunning lilo, and rebooting. When I had a somewhat similar problem, it turned out to be a bad RAM chip, and when it was removed, so was the problem. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From houle at citilink.com Sat Feb 9 20:23:03 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest Message-ID: Any idea when the next Installfest will be held? And I do realize we just had one. Wondering if we may try to have monthly or still going to be every several months. Terry Houle From mjn at umn.edu Sat Feb 9 22:45:40 2002 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network weirdness... Message-ID: I've got chage of a RedHat 6.1 box over on the U campus and ever since a network outage yesterday we've seen strange behavior. We're running Netsaint for monitoring our NT, Novell and Linux machines and after the network started to recover yesterday the RTA on the ping which Netsaint does has been quite high, hovering between 60 and 89ms. When I do a straight ping from the cli i get mixed results. For the most part I get return times of .5-.8ms but every so often we are seeing times of 50-400ms(usually on the higher end of that) for no discernable reason. I was thinking network problem but none of the other boxes on our subnet are exhibiting the same symptoms. Ping scores follow below... I have restarted all network services since this started and bounced the interfaces but the behavior persists. Does this sound like a problem or am I just being too touchy? Anyone suggest anything (I'm defending my 355 day uptime like a lion!) or seen anything like this before? Thanks. -- ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com http://supermonkeycollider.dyndns.org/ ____________________________ PING 134.84.84.84 (134.84.84.84) from 134.84.89.152 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=0 ttl=254 time=17.3 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=1 ttl=254 time=0.9 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=2 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=3 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=4 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=5 ttl=254 time=0.9 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=6 ttl=254 time=309.9 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=7 ttl=254 time=0.9 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=8 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=9 ttl=254 time=1.1 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=10 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=11 ttl=254 time=1.1 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=12 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=13 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=14 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=15 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=16 ttl=254 time=310.0 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=17 ttl=254 time=0.8 ms 64 bytes from 134.84.84.84: icmp_seq=18 ttl=254 time=0.7 ms --- 134.84.84.84 ping statistics --- 19 packets transmitted, 19 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 0.7/34.2/310.0 ms From dsherman at real-time.com Sun Feb 10 07:58:04 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network weirdness... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013348709.15044.1.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Wed, 2001-10-31 at 13:39, mjn wrote: > I've got chage of a RedHat 6.1 box over on the U campus and ever since a > network outage yesterday we've seen strange behavior. > > We're running Netsaint for monitoring our NT, Novell and Linux machines > and after the network started to recover yesterday the RTA on the ping > which Netsaint does has been quite high, hovering between 60 and 89ms. > > When I do a straight ping from the cli i get mixed results. For the most > part I get return times of .5-.8ms but every so often we are seeing times > of 50-400ms(usually on the higher end of that) for no discernable reason. > I was thinking network problem but none of the other boxes on our subnet > are exhibiting the same symptoms. Ping scores follow below... > > I have restarted all network services since this started and bounced the > interfaces but the behavior persists. Does this sound like a problem or > am I just being too touchy? Anyone suggest anything (I'm defending my 355 > day uptime like a lion!) or seen anything like this before? I've seen this behavior when the NIC was on the verge of dying. I don't suppose you've tried swapping out the NIC, since you wanted to keep your uptime? Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020210/cf3ad69e/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Sun Feb 10 10:12:01 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <200202091835.09448@ellegon.com> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <200202091835.09448@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020210160126.B434E60325@friday.localdomain.fake> On Saturday 09 February 2002 06:38 pm, you wrote: > On Saturday 09 February 2002 05:39 pm, you wrote: > > Jay Kline wrote: > > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > > having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the > > > "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium > > > option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what > > > triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X (but then, I am > > > ALWAYS in X). There is nothing in any log files I can find- it is > > > almost as if the computer were unplugged. Anyone have any hints on > > > this? > > > > Do you have a relatively recent kernel (>2.4.10)? I know I had problems > > with earlier ones, especially when the system ran out of memory. Do you > > have a mem/swap/cpu meter going on your desktop anywhere? It might help > > analyze the problem. > > Try installing the memtest image and putting something like > > image=/boot/memtest > label=memtest > root=/dev/md0 > read-only > optional > vga=normal > > in your /etc/lilo.conf, then rerunning lilo, and rebooting. When I had a > somewhat similar problem, it turned out to be a bad RAM chip, and when it > was removed, so was the problem. I will give this a try, but the same memory was working fine until the CPU+mobo upgrade... -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- You're almost as happy as you think you are. From list at slushpupie.com Sun Feb 10 10:16:00 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020210160625.8574760325@friday.localdomain.fake> On Saturday 09 February 2002 05:39 pm, you wrote: > Jay Kline wrote: > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the > > "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium > > option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what > > triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS > > in X). There is nothing in any log files I can find- it is almost as if > > the computer were unplugged. Anyone have any hints on this? > > Do you have a relatively recent kernel (>2.4.10)? I know I had problems > with earlier ones, especially when the system ran out of memory. Do you > have a mem/swap/cpu meter going on your desktop anywhere? It might help > analyze the problem. Yes, I am running 2.4.17- I had to recompile because Athlon support wasnt in the kernel, so I decided to try the new one. Do you think I should try 2.4.9? I keep xosview up and running almost all the time, and with 512Mb of memory, I dont run out (I rarely do anything that intesnsive). The CPU is never at full throttle when it dies, I have seen it at 0%, to maybe 15%, rarely above that. Jay -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Good day to deal with people in high places; particularly lonely stewardesses. From list at slushpupie.com Sun Feb 10 10:28:01 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <200202091835.09448@ellegon.com> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020209173929.7e1fcee0.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <200202091835.09448@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020210161627.5D76560325@friday.localdomain.fake> On Saturday 09 February 2002 06:38 pm, you wrote: > On Saturday 09 February 2002 05:39 pm, you wrote: > > Jay Kline wrote: > > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > > having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the > > > "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium > > > option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what > > > triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X (but then, I am > > > ALWAYS in X). There is nothing in any log files I can find- it is > > > almost as if the computer were unplugged. Anyone have any hints on > > > this? > > > > Do you have a relatively recent kernel (>2.4.10)? I know I had problems > > with earlier ones, especially when the system ran out of memory. Do you > > have a mem/swap/cpu meter going on your desktop anywhere? It might help > > analyze the problem. > > Try installing the memtest image and putting something like > > image=/boot/memtest > label=memtest > root=/dev/md0 > read-only > optional > vga=normal > > in your /etc/lilo.conf, then rerunning lilo, and rebooting. When I had a > somewhat similar problem, it turned out to be a bad RAM chip, and when it > was removed, so was the problem. Ok, I found the memtest program, but I cant install that lilo setup- I dont have /dev/md0. The man page says nothing about how to boot it, and neither does the web page.. how do I do this? Jay -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Be careful! Is it classified? From mike at getbent.net Sun Feb 10 11:01:01 2002 From: mike at getbent.net (Mike Nielsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> References: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> Message-ID: <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> I had a lot of bizzare CPU problems as well. Turned out to be heat. I would try to simply pull your case off and let it run free. Maybe point a fan at the cpu. My system would just up and lock no oops or panics or anything On Saturday 09 February 2002 17:13, you wrote: > the other major thing is the software you have running. if you have > windows running its always gunna be more crashprone then UNIX. try > different software to see if somthing running in the background is either > conflicting with the software or mabye the software you are trying to run > is reliant on somthing that isnt there. iduno though, im still kindof a > n00b. ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- ----------------------------- |\/|ike@GetBent.net From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 10 13:05:37 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020210161627.5D76560325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <200202091835.09448@ellegon.com> <20020210161627.5D76560325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <200202101253.54930@ellegon.com> On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:16 am, Jay Kline wrote: > On Saturday 09 February 2002 06:38 pm, you wrote: > > On Saturday 09 February 2002 05:39 pm, you wrote: > > > Jay Kline wrote: > > > > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been > > > > having my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is > > > > the "bug" (or whatever its being called) that requires the > > > > mem=nopentium option on boot, and I have done that. I have yet to > > > > figure out what triggers the lock up, other than I am always in X > > > > (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing in any log files I > > > > can find- it is almost as if the computer were unplugged. Anyone have > > > > any hints on this? > > > > > > Do you have a relatively recent kernel (>2.4.10)? I know I had > > > problems with earlier ones, especially when the system ran out of > > > memory. Do you have a mem/swap/cpu meter going on your desktop > > > anywhere? It might help analyze the problem. > > > > Try installing the memtest image and putting something like > > > > image=/boot/memtest > > label=memtest > > root=/dev/md0 > > read-only > > optional > > vga=normal > > > > in your /etc/lilo.conf, then rerunning lilo, and rebooting. When I had a > > somewhat similar problem, it turned out to be a bad RAM chip, and when it > > was removed, so was the problem. > > Ok, I found the memtest program, but I cant install that lilo setup- I dont > have /dev/md0. The man page says nothing about how to boot it, and > neither does the web page.. how do I do this? > Oops. My bad; my root directory is on a RAID partition, and yours is probably on something like hda1. Substitute hda1 or sb3 or whatever you've got as your real root directory. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 10 13:18:28 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> References: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> Message-ID: <200202101311.4695@ellegon.com> On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:49 am, Mike Nielsen wrote: > I had a lot of bizzare CPU problems as well. Turned out to be heat. I > would try to simply pull your case off and let it run free. Maybe point a > fan at the cpu. > Which brings up an interesting question -- many modern motherboards have some sort of built-in thermometer that the BIOS can apparently read. (Mine has two: one on/adjacent to the CPU, and another somewhere else in the case.) Anybody know of a Linux utility to pick up the temp from that and display it? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From list at slushpupie.com Sun Feb 10 14:42:48 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> References: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> Message-ID: <20020210203930.8D66160325@friday.localdomain.fake> I have heard that this is not the best thing to do, as it dosnt control the flow of air as well, dose anyone have any thoughts on that? Also, what should be the average running temp of an Athlon system? The bios tells me the temp, and I can let it set there for a while to get a better reading. Jay On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:49 am, you wrote: > I had a lot of bizzare CPU problems as well. Turned out to be heat. I > would try to simply pull your case off and let it run free. Maybe point a > fan at the cpu. > > My system would just up and lock no oops or panics or anything > > On Saturday 09 February 2002 17:13, you wrote: > > the other major thing is the software you have running. if you have > > windows running its always gunna be more crashprone then UNIX. try > > different software to see if somthing running in the background is either > > conflicting with the software or mabye the software you are trying to run > > is reliant on somthing that isnt there. iduno though, im still kindof a > > n00b. > > ---------------------------------------- > Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Description: > ---------------------------------------- -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- You will be the last person to buy a Chrysler. From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 10 15:00:35 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020210203930.8D66160325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> <20020210203930.8D66160325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <200202101448.42867@ellegon.com> On Sunday 10 February 2002 02:39 pm, you wrote: > I have heard that this is not the best thing to do, as it dosnt control the > flow of air as well, dose anyone have any thoughts on that? > Depends on how well your box is designed, and on how well the fans actually get the air moving, which is to say that it varies tremendously. > Also, what should be the average running temp of an Athlon system? The bios > tells me the temp, and I can let it set there for a while to get a better > reading. > Mine tends to run about fifteen degrees above room temperature in the box, and another five to ten higher on the CPU. Whether this is good or bad, I dunno, and I'm not sure if frequent disk accesses -- very common while the machine is running; not nearly so when it's just sitting there, powered on -- won't up the temperature significantly. Check out the temperature after you've rebooted from a crash; that might give a good indication if you've got a heat problem. If so, it should be cheap to fix -- fans are cheap. > Jay > > On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:49 am, you wrote: > > I had a lot of bizzare CPU problems as well. Turned out to be heat. I > > would try to simply pull your case off and let it run free. Maybe point > > a fan at the cpu. > > > > My system would just up and lock no oops or panics or anything > > > > On Saturday 09 February 2002 17:13, you wrote: > > > the other major thing is the software you have running. if you have > > > windows running its always gunna be more crashprone then UNIX. try > > > different software to see if somthing running in the background is > > > either conflicting with the software or mabye the software you are > > > trying to run is reliant on somthing that isnt there. iduno though, im > > > still kindof a n00b. > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Content-Description: > > ---------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From erik at ehanson.net Sun Feb 10 15:03:07 2002 From: erik at ehanson.net (Erik Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020210203930.8D66160325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020210145101.00ab18d0@ehanson.net> Leaving the case open is _not_ the best method for cooling a CPU, because even tho the case is open to the cooler outside air, there is very little airflow over the CPU. Keeping the case closed (as long as you have some fans in the case) will keep the CPU cooler. Adding case fans helps this even more. -Erik At 02:39 PM 2/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I have heard that this is not the best thing to do, as it dosnt control the >flow of air as well, dose anyone have any thoughts on that? > >Also, what should be the average running temp of an Athlon system? The bios >tells me the temp, and I can let it set there for a while to get a better >reading. > >Jay > >On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:49 am, you wrote: > > I had a lot of bizzare CPU problems as well. Turned out to be heat. I > > would try to simply pull your case off and let it run free. Maybe point a > > fan at the cpu. > > > > My system would just up and lock no oops or panics or anything > > From j at 4dvfx.com Sun Feb 10 15:06:12 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability References: <145.942668f.299706fd@cs.com> <02021010494704.01433@Dingo> <20020210203930.8D66160325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <001401c1b275$f1c51f70$7e01a8c0@win2k001> he problem with letting it sit on a BIOS screen to check the temp is that you aren't giving the CPU a workout. The temp will be significantly higher when doing heavy processing. Jeff > I have heard that this is not the best thing to do, as it dosnt control the > flow of air as well, dose anyone have any thoughts on that? > > Also, what should be the average running temp of an Athlon system? The bios > tells me the temp, and I can let it set there for a while to get a better > reading. > > Jay > > On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:49 am, you wrote: > > I had a lot of bizzare CPU problems as well. Turned out to be heat. I > > would try to simply pull your case off and let it run free. Maybe point a > > fan at the cpu. > > > > My system would just up and lock no oops or panics or anything > > > > On Saturday 09 February 2002 17:13, you wrote: > > > the other major thing is the software you have running. if you have > > > windows running its always gunna be more crashprone then UNIX. try > > > different software to see if somthing running in the background is either > > > conflicting with the software or mabye the software you are trying to run > > > is reliant on somthing that isnt there. iduno though, im still kindof a > > > n00b. > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"; name="Attachment: 1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Content-Description: > > ---------------------------------------- > > -- > Jay Kline > list@slushpupie.com > http://www.slushpupie.com > -- > You will be the last person to buy a Chrysler. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 10 20:24:01 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House Message-ID: TCLUG Members welcome- Meetings are free and open to the public Twin Cities PC Users Group February General Meeting. "It's time for Wireless and 11 Megabits in your House" At the February 12th 7:00 pm general meeting at the Bloomington Eagles Club our presenter will be Elwin Loomis. Elwin will tell us all about IEEE 802.11 the new wireless technology that can tie your home network together at 11 Megabits per second. Elwin has worked on the development of the wireless network in the new Target Corporation headquarters in downtown Minneapolis. He will take us through the ins and outs of hardware from various manufactures and set up a small demonstration wireless network in the Eagles Club meeting room. Wireless Ethernet is in your future . . .come to the meeting and let Elwin show you how. Meeting at: Eagles Aerie 3208 9152 Old Cedar Avenue (Old Shakopee Road & Old Cedar Ave) Bloomington Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2156 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020210/e46e4523/winmail.bin From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sun Feb 10 21:15:06 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021020430400.32597@edith> What was the winmail.dat for? Did it contain secret info for MS Outhouse users? I suppose I should get as prissy as the Lookout users that complain of having priorities set on the mail from the X-message-flag settings. Kelly Black KB0GBJ P.S. Somebody please mention Hitler, and let this thread die! On Sunday 10 February 2002 20:17, Terry Houle wrote: > TCLUG Members welcome- Meetings are free and open to the public > > Twin Cities PC Users Group February General Meeting. > > "It's time for Wireless and 11 Megabits in your House" > > > At the February 12th 7:00 pm general meeting at the Bloomington Eagles Club > our presenter will be Elwin Loomis. Elwin will tell us all about IEEE > 802.11 the new wireless technology that can tie your home network together > at 11 Megabits per second. Elwin has worked on the development of the > wireless network in the new Target Corporation headquarters in downtown > Minneapolis. He will take us through the ins and outs of hardware from > various manufactures and set up a small demonstration wireless network in > the Eagles Club meeting room. Wireless Ethernet is in your future . . > .come to the meeting and let Elwin show you how. > > Meeting at: > Eagles Aerie 3208 > 9152 Old Cedar Avenue (Old Shakopee Road & Old Cedar Ave) > Bloomington > > > Terry Houle > President > Twin Cities PC Users Group > terry@tcpc.com > http://www.tcpc.com From list at slushpupie.com Sun Feb 10 21:49:01 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <20020211034605.42B8360325@friday.localdomain.fake> Ok, I think I got it... a bad stick of memory. I pulled it out, and my system seems stable now, though noticably slower :-( (down to 256Mb) Jay On Saturday 09 February 2002 02:49 pm, you wrote: > I recently upgraded to an Athlon XP 1800+, and since then have been having > my computer just lock up from time to time. I know there is the "bug" (or > whatever its being called) that requires the mem=nopentium option on boot, > and I have done that. I have yet to figure out what triggers the lock up, > other than I am always in X (but then, I am ALWAYS in X). There is nothing > in any log files I can find- it is almost as if the computer were > unplugged. Anyone have any hints on this? > > Jay -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and a seal. -- Mark Twain From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Sun Feb 10 22:08:02 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <02021020430400.32597@edith>; from kelly-black@mediaone.net on Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 08:43:04PM -0600 References: <02021020430400.32597@edith> Message-ID: <20020210214835.A31101@trammell.dyndns.org> [jeapordectomy performed] On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 08:43:04PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: >On Sunday 10 February 2002 20:17, Terry Houle wrote: >> TCLUG Members welcome- Meetings are free and open to the public >> >> Twin Cities PC Users Group February General Meeting. [snip] > What was the winmail.dat for? Did it contain secret info for MS > Outhouse users? > > I suppose I should get as prissy as the Lookout users that complain > of having priorities set on the mail from the X-message-flag settings. > [snip] If I had wanted to receive TCPC announcements, I would have subscribed to tcpc-announce@whatever.org. -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From dmblevins at mediaone.net Sun Feb 10 22:24:03 2002 From: dmblevins at mediaone.net (David Blevins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: I don't think you can compare them on such a broad manner. The cost of something depends on more factors than are being acknowledged. Extreme 1 If you are a smaller business not at all involved in anything technical, a seed corn company for example, your only real option is windows. You can't justify learning Linux when the knowledge doesn't benefit other aspects of your business. You also can't afford to hire anyone, as they will be doing nothing most of the time. In the end you just need a few computers and something like MS Office to do basic business accounting/mailings/etc. with a small customer database. You only have five machines or so and every seems to have Windows and MS Office experience. So, in that situation, you're obligated to use Windows. It is beyond your means to use anything else. Mind you small businesses can take advantage of Linux consultants, however, this example business won't even be pushing their Windows boxes to the limits. They don't care or need what Linux can do for them, windows is always cheaper than a good consultant. Extreme 2 You are a huge business providing financial services, a bank for example. You have a huge cluster of computers running thousands of transactions per second. Your costs are the cost to put Win XP Advanced Server on each box, plus a server support employee, plus the Microsoft Support contract. Any downtime when running mission critical applications costs more than all your machines, software, and employees put together. The performance of Win2k(XP?) is not as good as a Linux platform customized just to run your app, so with Windows you need more machines and more Windows licenses. The price you pay for a good Linux support employee is offset by the money you avoid loosing with less downtime, better performance, an no per/CPU costs. Just my $0.02. David Blevins > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob Tanner > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:21 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. > Although Linux > as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the > computers, and > support and maintenance, he said." > > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the > ability to let > the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? > > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you > pay for a > distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a > better TOC then > Win2k. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Sun Feb 10 22:56:01 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... Message-ID: <200202110446.g1B4k3V11845@linuxserver.northlans.com> Does anyone have a good recommendation for my following situation: The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. I need a GUI interface I need an e-mail package that does POP3, but IMAP or both would be better I need a web browser I need basic office applications, best if they can read M$ documents, but not nessesary. I need to be able to connect to a M$ network shares and printers I need a file manager I want to have a couple hundred megs of open free drive space I want to only have what I need to be installed The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? Thanks Jim Streit From jimstreit at northlans.com Sun Feb 10 23:12:02 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... Message-ID: <200202110453.g1B4rWl11855@linuxserver.northlans.com> Does anyone have a good recommendation for my following situation: The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. I need a GUI interface I need an e-mail package that does POP3, but IMAP or both would be better I need a web browser I need basic office applications, best if they can read M$ documents, but not nessesary. I need to be able to connect to a M$ network shares and printers I need a file manager I want to have a couple hundred megs of open free drive space I want to only have what I need to be installed The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? Thanks Jim Streit From jimstreit at northlans.com Sun Feb 10 23:13:32 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... Message-ID: <200202110500.g1B50ID11988@linuxserver.northlans.com> Does anyone have a good recommendation for my following situation: The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. I need a GUI interface I need an e-mail package that does POP3, but IMAP or both would be better I need a web browser I need basic office applications, best if they can read M$ documents, but not nessesary. I need to be able to connect to a M$ network shares and printers I need a file manager I want to have a couple hundred megs of open free drive space I want to only have what I need to be installed The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? Thanks Jim Streit From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Mon Feb 11 00:57:02 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <20020210214835.A31101@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <02021020430400.32597@edith> <20020210214835.A31101@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200202110642.g1B6gjb10270@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Sunday 10 February 2002 9:48 pm, John J. Trammell wrote: > > If I had wanted to receive TCPC announcements, I would have > subscribed to tcpc-announce@whatever.org. > Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Mon Feb 11 00:58:50 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... In-Reply-To: <200202110446.g1B4k3V11845@linuxserver.northlans.com> References: <200202110446.g1B4k3V11845@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <200202110652.g1B6qsb13656@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Peanut Linux...www.ibiblio.org/peanut. Should solve your troubles. 150MB download! On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:46 pm, Jim Streit wrote: > Does anyone have a good recommendation for my following situation: > > The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. > > I need a GUI interface > I need an e-mail package that does POP3, but IMAP or both would be better > I need a web browser > I need basic office applications, best if they can read M$ documents, > but not nessesary. > I need to be able to connect to a M$ network shares and printers > I need a file manager > I want to have a couple hundred megs of open free drive space > I want to only have what I need to be installed > > The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with > Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. > > Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? > > Thanks > Jim Streit > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 11 02:37:21 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] interesting article Message-ID: Amazon switching to linux: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C5098989%2C00.html From kremer at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 02:40:04 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <200202110642.g1B6gjb10270@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: > Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... Well, if it doesn't pertain to linux (like that last one you sent) yes it is. I personally (note i said personally, dunno how the rest of the list feels) feel that if the announcement is directly linux related, go ahead, but if not...let us subscribe to TCPC if we wanna hear about it. Thanks for asking, - Kremer From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Feb 11 05:42:59 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020211034605.42B8360325@friday.localdomain.fake>; from list@slushpupie.com on Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 09:46:04PM -0600 References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020211034605.42B8360325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <20020211053517.U32696@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 09:46:04PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > Ok, I think I got it... a bad stick of memory. I pulled it out, and my > system seems stable now, though noticably slower :-( (down to 256Mb) [Attempt at answering many questions from this thread at once] Temperature monitoring: http://www.netroedge.com/~lm78/ If anyone needs the sensors.conf for the SiS 735 motherboards you can contact me privately. The above program is for interfacing with the actual devices on the motherboard, I use an X app called wmalms that sits nicely in the taskbar: http://www.geocities.com/wmalms/ BIOS: If you're running an SiS 735 motherboard, or any other really, make sure you're running the latest BIOS when you encounter odd problems like this. Watching the temperature of the system from the BIOS is misleading, the system is doing virtually nothing, so the temperature drops quickly, I notice a sharp increase when running processor intensive tasks (compiling, rtcw, dnetc) while the rest of the time it will hover around 125F (Athlon 1.3ghz "c" core) if anyone else with an athlon system uses temperature monitors I would be interested in hearing what their average temperature is, I could find no data on AMD's website about what they should be, and what safe limits were =/ > > Jay > -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From kelly-black at mediaone.net Mon Feb 11 06:37:02 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021106072200.32746@edith> I agree. At least put the "Off Topic" marker on the subject line if the subject matter is off topic! Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Sunday 10 February 2002 12:42:24 Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... On Monday 11 February 2002 02:25, Kremer wrote: > Well, if it doesn't pertain to linux (like that last one you sent) yes it > is. > I personally (note i said personally, dunno how the rest of the list > feels) feel that if the announcement is directly linux related, go ahead, > but if not...let us subscribe to TCPC if we wanna hear about it. > Thanks for asking, > > - Kremer From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 11 07:48:47 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: [OT] Nitpicking was Re: [TCLUG] Linux Partitions Message-ID: >>> florin@iucha.net 10/30/01 08:03PM >>> Kids, if you don't want to play, go away. ... Feel free to preview the message and hit "del", or be even more fancy and add the title to procmail > /dev/null. Waah, waah, waah! Take your own advice. From foeclan at visi.com Mon Feb 11 08:33:02 2002 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:39 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House References: <02021106072200.32746@edith> Message-ID: <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> I agree, too. If I wanted to know about basketweaving events, I'd joint a basketweaving group. If I wanted to know PC events, I'd join TCPC. I didn't, I joined a Linux group. TCPC doesn't need extra announcements, they've got their own list for that. Kelly Black wrote: >I agree. At least put the "Off Topic" marker on the subject line if the >subject matter is off topic! > >Kelly Black >KB0GBJ > >On Sunday 10 February 2002 12:42:24 Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >>>Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... >>> > >On Monday 11 February 2002 02:25, Kremer wrote: > >>Well, if it doesn't pertain to linux (like that last one you sent) yes it >>is. >>I personally (note i said personally, dunno how the rest of the list >>feels) feel that if the announcement is directly linux related, go ahead, >>but if not...let us subscribe to TCPC if we wanna hear about it. >>Thanks for asking, >> >>- Kremer >> >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From clay at fandre.com Mon Feb 11 08:58:22 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> References: <02021106072200.32746@edith> <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020211144618.GB20582@fandre.com> From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Feb 11 09:11:14 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... In-Reply-To: <200202110446.g1B4k3V11845@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Jim Streit wrote: > The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. > > The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with > Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. > > Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? That is mean and cruel, Jim. I run that as my PRIMARY WORKSTATION!!! Ok, 1.2 Gb is a little small but pretty much any mature distro will give you everything you need. I use RH6.2 on mine but there's no reason 7.2 wouldn't work just as dandy. Or Debian, or slack, or, or or... Seriously, there's nothing shoddy about this system at all. Now, I have the same requirements for my 486 Thinkpad, that has been an interesting task... :-) -Brian From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Feb 11 09:43:02 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514E66@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I just had 2 bad sticks of memory on my Soyo Dragon+ board. 2 256MB Micron DDR sticks. One only showed up as 128MB, and the other still showed up as 256MB, but crashed with it in. I replaced it with Samsung DDR, and it's been working fine ever since. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 5:35 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 09:46:04PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > > Ok, I think I got it... a bad stick of memory. I pulled > it out, and my > > system seems stable now, though noticably slower :-( (down > to 256Mb) > > [Attempt at answering many questions from this thread at once] > > Temperature monitoring: > http://www.netroedge.com/~lm78/ If anyone needs the sensors.conf for the SiS 735 motherboards you can contact me privately. The above program is for interfacing with the actual devices on the motherboard, I use an X app called wmalms that sits nicely in the taskbar: http://www.geocities.com/wmalms/ BIOS: If you're running an SiS 735 motherboard, or any other really, make sure you're running the latest BIOS when you encounter odd problems like this. Watching the temperature of the system from the BIOS is misleading, the system is doing virtually nothing, so the temperature drops quickly, I notice a sharp increase when running processor intensive tasks (compiling, rtcw, dnetc) while the rest of the time it will hover around 125F (Athlon 1.3ghz "c" core) if anyone else with an athlon system uses temperature monitors I would be interested in hearing what their average temperature is, I could find no data on AMD's website about what they should be, and what safe limits were =/ > > Jay > -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 11 10:36:01 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <200202110642.g1B6gjb10270@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from rahrenstorff@mediaone.net on Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 12:42:24PM -0600 References: <02021020430400.32597@edith> <20020210214835.A31101@trammell.dyndns.org> <200202110642.g1B6gjb10270@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020211101940.C10885@sherohman.org> On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 12:42:24PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Sunday 10 February 2002 9:48 pm, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > > If I had wanted to receive TCPC announcements, I would have > > subscribed to tcpc-announce@whatever.org. > > > > Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... One or two isn't bad. But this is the second one in the last week and I really don't want it to become a habit. If the TCLUG list starts receiving (continues to receive?) announcements of every TCPC meeting (which, I get the impression, are held at least weekly), I will be thoroughly annoyed. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Feb 11 10:36:44 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgraded PHP, now Apache is broken Message-ID: I needed to upgrade PHP to add some mysql functions. Now Apache won't start, and it's not giving me any useful errors. I grabbed PHP-4.1.11 and compiled it: ./configure --with-mysql=pathtomysql --with-apxs=pathtoapxs make make install cp php.ini-recommended /usr/local/lib/php.ini-dist /etc/rc.d/init.d/httpd restart First I got an error that lib/apache couldn't be found, so I made a symlink in /etc/httpd (the server root) to /usr/lib. Now it just fails, the only message in the error log is "child process not started, sending SIGTERM". Any ideas? -brian From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Feb 11 11:45:52 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... Message-ID: <200202111733.g1BHXEI13053@linuxserver.northlans.com> This looks great. I am going to give it a try. Thanks > Peanut Linux...www.ibiblio.org/peanut. Should solve your troubles. 150MB > download! > > > On Sunday 10 February 2002 10:46 pm, Jim Streit wrote: > > Does anyone have a good recommendation for my following situation: > > > > The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. > > > > I need a GUI interface > > I need an e-mail package that does POP3, but IMAP or both would be better > > I need a web browser > > I need basic office applications, best if they can read M$ documents, > > but not nessesary. > > I need to be able to connect to a M$ network shares and printers > > I need a file manager > > I want to have a couple hundred megs of open free drive space > > I want to only have what I need to be installed > > > > The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with > > Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. > > > > Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? > > > > Thanks > > Jim Streit > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Feb 11 12:04:18 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... Message-ID: <200202111744.g1BHiP113092@linuxserver.northlans.com> Sorry, I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I have tried RedHat 7.2, Mandrake 7.1, and Redmond Linux (Lycoris) on a test machine and all of them have ran rather slow, even after removing extra unneeded apps and stuff. I really need to have the performance to be real close to the Windows invironment on the same hardware. If I can get the performance, I can start moving it to desktops. > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Jim Streit wrote: > > > The equipment is older, like p200 and 64 meg ram, 1.2 gb drives. > > > > The setup has to perform close, if not as well as Windows 98, with > > Office 97 and Outlook, on the same hardware. > > > > Is this even possible with Linux or should I just forget about it? > > That is mean and cruel, Jim. I run that as my PRIMARY WORKSTATION!!! Ok, > 1.2 Gb is a little small but pretty much any mature distro will give you > everything you need. I use RH6.2 on mine but there's no reason 7.2 > wouldn't work just as dandy. Or Debian, or slack, or, or or... > > Seriously, there's nothing shoddy about this system at all. Now, I have > the same requirements for my 486 Thinkpad, that has been an interesting > task... :-) > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 11 12:06:35 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgraded PHP, now Apache is broken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020211175855.GA459@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 10:25:51AM -0600, Brian wrote: > I needed to upgrade PHP to add some mysql functions. Now Apache won't > start, and it's not giving me any useful errors. > > I grabbed PHP-4.1.11 and compiled it: > > ./configure --with-mysql=pathtomysql --with-apxs=pathtoapxs > make > make install > cp php.ini-recommended /usr/local/lib/php.ini-dist > /etc/rc.d/init.d/httpd restart > > First I got an error that lib/apache couldn't be found, so I made a > symlink in /etc/httpd (the server root) to /usr/lib. Now it just fails, Whoa... you really messed up your system. Why is /etc/httpd your server root? And why do you symlink /usr stuff into /etc? In /etc/httpd you should have the apache config files and nothing more. Please post a gzipped httpd.conf here. > the only message in the error log is "child process not started, sending > SIGTERM". florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/58606ba6/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 11 12:39:51 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... In-Reply-To: <200202111744.g1BHiP113092@linuxserver.northlans.com> References: <200202111744.g1BHiP113092@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020211182445.GB459@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 11:44:25AM -0600, Jim Streit wrote: > Sorry, I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I have tried RedHat 7.2, > Mandrake 7.1, and Redmond Linux (Lycoris) on a test machine and all of > them have ran rather slow, even after removing extra unneeded apps and > stuff. > > I really need to have the performance to be real close to the Windows > invironment on the same hardware. If I can get the performance, I can > start moving it to desktops. As long as you don't use kde/gnome the box should be usable. Set it with icewm as window manager and rxvt as terminal emulator and it will be snappy. florin PS: Make sure to change the default theme to microGUI or mozilla. -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/e82c5dc6/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Mon Feb 11 12:59:35 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgraded PHP, now Apache is broken In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Brian wrote: > First I got an error that lib/apache couldn't be found, so I made a > symlink in /etc/httpd (the server root) to /usr/lib. Now it just > fails, the only message in the error log is "child process not > started, sending SIGTERM". You had to recompile apache to get the new php module working? Or is this without recompiling apache? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 11 13:15:29 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... In-Reply-To: <20020211182445.GB459@iucha.net> References: <200202111744.g1BHiP113092@linuxserver.northlans.com> <20020211182445.GB459@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020211185535.GI26302@wookimus.net> Regarding the question about a minimalstic Desktop installation, I would look into installing a basic system without Gnome or KDE. As far as a M$ Word filterable editor, look into StarOffice (which is large and clunky) or the newer abiword (which compiles with either gtk or gnome, I think). I believe gnumeric requires gnome components and libraries to run, but it's by far the best for importing Excel documents. A very simple plain-text editor would be nano, but vim or emacs would give you much more power. The newest Mozilla is fairly snappy, so I wouldn't let it scare you off, though the standard netscape 4.78 works well. Good luck! -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/fe582517/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 13:49:38 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... In-Reply-To: <20020211185535.GI26302@wookimus.net> Message-ID: | much more power. The newest Mozilla is fairly snappy, so I wouldn't let | it scare you off, though the standard netscape 4.78 works well. Yes, the latest Mozilla is rather snappy, but I've only run it on a 900Mhz P3 and a 700Mhz Athlon, both with plenty of RAM. No idea how it would do on, say, my p266 laptop. I use Opera on my laptop, and I think Opera is better on smaller displays than Mozilla. I'd suggest checking out Galeon or Konqueror, but they will require you to load many GNOME or KDE libs, which isn't bad if you're running GNOME or KDE as the libs would already be loaded, but if you're not running GNOME or KDE, it might impact performance a bit. I know that konqueror will launch some kde session managment and other related processes as well. Mozilla or Opera are my suggestions. Netscape is just to old... ;) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Feb 11 14:45:00 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgraded PHP, now Apache is broken In-Reply-To: <20020211175855.GA459@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > Whoa... you really messed up your system. Actually, I got Apache running OK with PHP3, still have some issues with v4. > Why is /etc/httpd your server root? And why do you symlink /usr stuff > into /etc? Redhat installs it there by default. I think they still do. > In /etc/httpd you should have the apache config files and nothing more. > Please post a gzipped httpd.conf here. Since the problem has changed I won't post it yet. The only thing that's changed in httpd.conf is: LoadModule php4_module lib/apache/libphp4.so AddModule mod_php4.c AddType application/x-httpd-php .php AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps and I commented out the php3 lines of the same. in /etc/httpd I already have symlinks to /var/log and /usr/lib/apache. I added the symlink so it would find the module. Nate - I have not recompiled Apache. My new error when I uncomment the 4 lines above and comment out the similar PHP3 lines: Cannot load /etc/httpd/lib/apache/libphp4.so into server: /etc/httpd/lib/apache/libphp4.so: undefined symbol: uncompress -Brian From clay at fandre.com Mon Feb 11 14:59:01 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> References: <02021106072200.32746@edith> <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020211204340.GJ20582@fandre.com> One word: WebPoll. (or is that 2?) http://www.mn-linux.org/ On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Michael Vieths wrote: > I agree, too. If I wanted to know about basketweaving events, I'd joint > a basketweaving group. If I wanted to know PC events, I'd join TCPC. I > didn't, I joined a Linux group. TCPC doesn't need extra announcements, > they've got their own list for that. > > Kelly Black wrote: > > >I agree. At least put the "Off Topic" marker on the subject line if the > >subject matter is off topic! > > > >Kelly Black > >KB0GBJ > > > >On Sunday 10 February 2002 12:42:24 Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > > >>>Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... > >>> > > > >On Monday 11 February 2002 02:25, Kremer wrote: > > > >>Well, if it doesn't pertain to linux (like that last one you sent) yes it > >>is. > >>I personally (note i said personally, dunno how the rest of the list > >>feels) feel that if the announcement is directly linux related, go ahead, > >>but if not...let us subscribe to TCPC if we wanna hear about it. > >>Thanks for asking, > >> > >>- Kremer > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > >Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joelr at ellegon.com Mon Feb 11 15:00:24 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <20020211034605.42B8360325@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020211034605.42B8360325@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <200202111452.05168@ellegon.com> On Sunday 10 February 2002 09:46 pm, you wrote: > Ok, I think I got it... a bad stick of memory. I pulled it out, and my > system seems stable now, though noticably slower :-( (down to 256Mb) Just out of curiousity, did you find it with memtest, or another tool? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 11 15:17:51 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Upgraded PHP, now Apache is broken Message-ID: Are you trying to run both PHP3 and PHP4 as Apache modules? As far as I can remember, only one will work (as a module) at a time. Running one or both as CGI should be workable though. >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 02/11/02 02:31PM >>> >Actually, I got Apache running OK with PHP3, still have some issues with v4. >> Why is /etc/httpd your server root? And why do you symlink /usr stuff >> into /etc? >Redhat installs it there by default. I think they still do. It can sometimes be so much easier (for me, at least) to ignore Red Hat's arrangement-of-the-distro and install apps (like Apache) from source, but only if I want something different from their test "stock" offering. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 11 15:19:20 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meetingon Wireless in your House Message-ID: Clay, I don't mind hearing about Non-Linux-Related things that others think LUG members might find interesting, but I definitely want those things marked [OT] or [Off Topic] so they can be screened. Can you put in an option like: Linux related and also computer related if specifically marked Off-Topic? I don't know -- it isn't a perfect question, but do you get the idea? Thanks, Troy >>> clay@fandre.com 02/11/02 02:43PM >>> One word: WebPoll. (or is that 2?) http://www.mn-linux.org/ On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Michael Vieths wrote: > I agree, too. If I wanted to know about basketweaving events, I'd joint > a basketweaving group. If I wanted to know PC events, I'd join TCPC. I > didn't, I joined a Linux group. TCPC doesn't need extra announcements, > they've got their own list for that. > > Kelly Black wrote: > > >I agree. At least put the "Off Topic" marker on the subject line if the > >subject matter is off topic! > > > >Kelly Black > >KB0GBJ > > > >On Sunday 10 February 2002 12:42:24 Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > > >>>Now c'mon...is it really that bad? An announcement or two... > >>> > > > >On Monday 11 February 2002 02:25, Kremer wrote: > > > >>Well, if it doesn't pertain to linux (like that last one you sent) yes it > >>is. > >>I personally (note i said personally, dunno how the rest of the list > >>feels) feel that if the announcement is directly linux related, go ahead, > >>but if not...let us subscribe to TCPC if we wanna hear about it. > >>Thanks for asking, > >> > >>- Kremer > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > >Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sbutler at ARNAN.com Mon Feb 11 15:20:24 2002 From: sbutler at ARNAN.com (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installfest volunteers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tuesday 05 February 2002 06:03 pm, you wrote: > | You mean the lack of a confused look isn't enough to distiguish a guru > | and a newbie? > > Nah, some or us always walk around with a confused look. :) what, huh? where is my computer? From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 15:21:49 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Buying a new sound card References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514DBE@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3C61630D.6070608@ringworld.org> Austad, Jay wrote: > Also, if you're into the SPDIF thing, the Cmedia chips don't mess with your > sampling rate. SB cards have traditionally upsampled to 48khz, and back > down to 44.1khz before dumping it to the digital out. On the upside, the SB Live does hardware PCM mixing, so you can open up /dev/dsp multiple times. I've not noticed the resampling to do very much damage. I think a es1370 card is a btter choice. If you want really good quality, go for one of those external usb thingies, they supposedly do a really good job. -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 15:22:58 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: how do i get off this list References: <20020206084627.GJ14636@wookimus.net> <1013009734.20328.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <20020206162521.GC22292@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3C6163C8.2070202@ringworld.org> Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > I certainly hope not. That would be a bit of a violation of the law, ISP's are not bound by common carrier laws, they are able to do as they will. -- Scott Dier From pcdoc at snapreporter.com Mon Feb 11 15:23:37 2002 From: pcdoc at snapreporter.com (Joe Wozniak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: more domino for linux (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20020206132123.A22978@linux.inhouse.com>; from pcdoc@snapreporter.com on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:21:23 -0600 References: <20020206132123.A22978@linux.inhouse.com> Message-ID: <20020206133213.A23008@linux.inhouse.com> On 01.29.2002 09:00 Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: >Speaking with my Notes Admin hat - whyyyyyyy do you >have end users/illiterate users touching the admin >console!????? We have a few people here that at times need to get into the server room to start the Domino server if it has crashed during the night and one of us admins is not around to start it. No, we don't have a pager network for our servers, we don't have that much money. Plus, if they mess up the server, I have someone to blame anyhow. :-) The few people that we have selected for this job know mostly what they're doing, se we're not worried. >Again - I guess I don't understand why you need to >have a client on the server - realistically you >*shouldn't* be installing the client on the server on >any platform with R5, but that's another story. Other >than agents that need to run as server (which you can >schedule) most everything that needs to be done >*should* be able to be done remotely from any box on >the network, other than admin console work which still >can mostly be done remotely from the admin client. The reason we need a client on the server is for a security back door for those times when someone messes with a database ACL and locks everyone except localdomainservers from the database. Last time I checked, you can't unlock an ACL from the server console window. Besides, when you install the server, the client is already installed, you just need to run nlnotes.exe to access it. I do however recommend not running it on the server as a standard thing, it does make for an unstable environment and has been known to crash the server. From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 15:24:11 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Question: Is this list moderated References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC138@postman.transition.com> <63100.198.74.20.73.1013011649.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> <1013015711.20328.64.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C618907.6000804@ringworld.org> Ben Lutgens wrote: > sendmail != exim Yeah, and then theres that postfix variant of sendmail. (ducks) -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 15:24:48 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: FreeBSD system time issues References: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C618AE0.90808@ringworld.org> Ben Lutgens wrote: > Any pointers would be greatly appreciated, as nothing has turned up via > google, or the FreeBSD mailing lists (which i blatantly refuse to post > to) http://mailman.Geeks.ORG/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-users Theres a minnesota fbsd users list with mostly sane people on it. -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 15:25:27 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: FreeBSD system time issues References: <1013017370.20629.86.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <1013024597.3c618755ed872@www.fandre.com> Message-ID: <3C618B0E.2070401@ringworld.org> Clay Fandre wrote: > So what's wrong with the FreeBSD mailing lists? I'll place my bets on the following: "Of course, one defense, which I will label the 'NetBSD defense' is to simply make fun of the users and say that they're too stupid to deserve to use the software." - Theodore Tso, debian-devel, Mon, 21 Jan 2002 -- Scott Dier From sbutler at ARNAN.com Mon Feb 11 15:26:08 2002 From: sbutler at ARNAN.com (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck In-Reply-To: <20020206160915.GA22292@wookimus.net> References: <20020206160915.GA22292@wookimus.net> Message-ID: On Wednesday 06 February 2002 10:09 am, you wrote: > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:42:55AM -0600, SpencerUnderground wrote: > > I am using kmail today. > > My condolances. I am feeling a little better thanks. > > > I started using kmail again because sylpheed will not read the > > sub-directories of my imap folders, > > Do you understand why? Sylpheed was designed as a graphical front-end > for mh or nmh, the Rand Mail system. mh was originally designed as a > bulletinboard style email system. The format in which mh stores its > emails is a separate file for each email numbered in sequence in the > directory it is stored. IMAP servers traditionally don't understand > this format. Likewise, Sylpheed was not originally designed to read > mbox or maildir style email formats. That may have changed in recent > months, but IIRC, it wasn't the original intent. *Thank you* for the consice answer. I now know why these clients appear to suck so much :-) > > Personally, I'd love to make the nmh tools more friendly to other mail > formats as well. But that's not really going to happen unless I roll up > my sleeves and start coding. I will just have to make do, but thanks. -- -- Spencer Butler Twin Cities Open Systems spencer@tcopensys.org | Open Source Solutions http://tcopensys.org | Every Day Solutions Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 From mbresnah at visi.com Mon Feb 11 15:26:45 2002 From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Call for volunteers - OpenSource project In-Reply-To: <20020129173938.GB30497@fandre.com> Message-ID: I've got some time on my hands to put some effort into this. I don't have any "corporate"-related project ideas in mind currently, but I'd willing to work on just about anything. Mike Bresnahan > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Clay Fandre > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:40 AM > To: tclug-list > Subject: [TCLUG] Call for volunteers - OpenSource project > > > I am currently working at a client that is investigating OpenSource. > They are trying to determine if they can leverage OpenSource in a > corporate environment and would like a few volunteers to help prove > that OpenSource can work. If this sounds interesting, keep reading... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Want to change the future of corporate software development? > > Share your knowledge and expertise of Open Source and make a > difference! > > A small group of companies want to use the Open Source development > model, but we need your help to guide us into the world of Open > Source. We'd like to test the waters by participating in an existing > "corporate"-related Open Source development project. You can recommend > the project and add any extension of your own choosing. This is a > proof-of-concept and development is from 1 - 3 weeks of part time > effort. > > If you have a strong desire to change the world, contact Clay Fandre @ > clay@fandre.com. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 15:27:20 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: New Users SIG/TCPC Linux on Saturday References: Message-ID: <3C633C25.2040101@ringworld.org> Terry Houle wrote: > This Saturday February 9th the Twin Cities PC Users group (TC/PC) will hold > it monthly Linux on Saturday meeting. The second Saturday being devoted to Now I dont feel so bad only covering heady sysadmin topics at LUG meetings. ;) -- Scott Dier From lbehrens at boolion.com Mon Feb 11 15:28:49 2002 From: lbehrens at boolion.com (Lee J. Behrens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? Message-ID: OK, I'll comment... For me personally, Win2K has a much better TOC than Linux. Why? Most of my experience is with Windows. In terms of stability and reliability, I've always found NT/2K to be so, especially for development. (Win9x, on the other hand is often nothing but trouble.) In terms of virus resistance and security, if you play without protection, you're going to catch something, no matter what the platform. Do I have to apply the occasional patch? Of course. Is a misconfigured system going to be flaky? Of course. But I've seen firsthand the same holding true whether you run Linux or NT/2K. Come on, be honest--you know this is true. Now, don't get me wrong--I really enjoy Linux. I want to see it used more at home and at the workplace, and I suggest a Linux solution to my clients whenever feasible. And someday, I certainly won't mind leaving Windows behind. But right now, the experience factor alone makes Windows much cheaper for me. What would turn the tables in favor of Linux? Time, a lot of it. And as a consultant, time is money, a lot of it. Lee Behrens I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to let the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then Win2k. From blayer at qwest.net Mon Feb 11 15:29:42 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: one of the Guys? (Re: [TCLUG] Linux Partitions) In-Reply-To: <3BDEF78C.4000005@slava.net> References: <1004462765.3bdee2adb54c9@dragon> <3BDEF78C.4000005@slava.net> Message-ID: <20011031123830.210fb1b5.blayer@qwest.net> On or about Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:55:08 -0600 Lorry reportedly said... > I made the mistake of going to a Yahoo! Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris chat a > couple nights ago. I walked into a conversation about why all women are > evil, which turned into a conversation about how all homosexuals are > evil, which turned into a conversation about how not enough people in > the neighborhood sell drugs. So if using "Hi Guys" is as bad as it gets > on the list, I'm pretty happy! ;) One thing the Linux community is still missing is a decent set of open-source social skills. tar zxvf socskills-0.9a.tar.gz cd socskills-0.9a ./configure --with-intelligence --with-respect --with-tolerance --enable-self_esteem=YES You get the idea. PS It's nearly 2002, and homophobia is _still_ the fear of being one yourself ;) -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-got your war on?.- From sbutler at ARNAN.com Mon Feb 11 15:30:23 2002 From: sbutler at ARNAN.com (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slack Install In-Reply-To: <02283643802516@arnan.com> References: <02283643802516@arnan.com> Message-ID: <03444738102641@arnan.com> On Friday 08 February 2002 08:33 pm, you wrote: > I am installing Slackware on a Compaq Armada 4150. Pentium 150 and 16M RAM. > I am installing over NFS with a wireless NIC. I downloaded the > ISO from linuxiso.com. I mounted the ISO as a loop device and the install > starts flawlessly. However, before it can make it past its first directory > of packages I get errors. tar errors Grandchild . staring at me ATM. It complains that the archive has errors at the > beginning. It tells me to make sure I downloaded the files in binary and > that they are not corrupt. I wonder if the date being set to 1980 might > have something to do with this? I changed it in the BIOS, but it does not > stay set. I try and change it with date -s 02/08/02 variances> to no avail. Has anyone seen symptoms like these before. Does > anyone have any suggestions for installing Linux on the RAM defiecient > lappy? RH wants 24M for a remote install. > Well, two thoughts more. I found the directory named isos in the slackware folder, so I am grabbing that now. The other, and it is a long shot, I changed the name of the first iso I grabbed from linuxiso.com. So, I will try with this no un-renamed image. just gimme some slack... From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Mon Feb 11 15:31:02 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] python install problem Message-ID: <3169.63.165.212.171.1013226147.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> I have a RedHat 7.1 box with python 1.5.2.rpm installed. I am trying to upgrade it to 2.1. I get the list of needed dependencys: libcrypto.so.2 lib-3.2.so libreadline.so.4 libssl.so.2 I'm guessing this all can be resolved by installing a certain package, because I can't seem to find them individually. Anybody able to tell me what I need to satisfy these dependencys -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From lbehrens at boolion.com Mon Feb 11 15:31:46 2002 From: lbehrens at boolion.com (Lee J. Behrens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] List problems Message-ID: Well, as various people have reported in various posts, something odd is obviously going on with the list..... 1. Some posts are dated from months ago. 2. Some people report their posts don't show up until hours or days later, well after other posts with later timestamps arrive on the scene. 3. Some people report their posts never show up. Is there a hardware problem, like a drive dying a sloooow death? Lee Behrens P.S. Still waiting for my post with timestamp of about 8 Feb 2002, 10:53 AM CT. It should have been in the digest with message header date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:07:06 -0600. From lbehrens at boolion.com Mon Feb 11 15:37:34 2002 From: lbehrens at boolion.com (Lee J. Behrens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] List problems Message-ID: Well, as various people have reported in various posts, something odd is obviously going on with the list..... 1. Some posts are dated from months ago. 2. Some people report their posts don't show up until hours or days later, well after other posts with later timestamps arrive on the scene. 3. Some people report their posts never show up. Is there a hardware problem, like a drive dying a sloooow death? Lee Behrens P.S. In addition to this post, I sent two others 8 Feb 2002 10:53 AM CT and 9 Feb 2002 12:29 AM CT that have not yet appeared on the list. From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 11 15:53:31 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Athlon Unstability In-Reply-To: <200202111452.05168@ellegon.com> References: <20020209204904.A732F60325@friday.localdomain.fake> <20020211034605.42B8360325@friday.localdomain.fake> <200202111452.05168@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020211213746.2159C9051@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> On Monday 11 February 2002 02:52 pm, you wrote: > On Sunday 10 February 2002 09:46 pm, you wrote: > > Ok, I think I got it... a bad stick of memory. I pulled it out, and my > > system seems stable now, though noticably slower :-( (down to 256Mb) > > Just out of curiousity, did you find it with memtest, or another tool? Neither, brute force method. Take one stick out and see what happens. :-) Jay From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Feb 11 16:12:21 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] List problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Lee J. Behrens wrote: > Well, as various people have reported in various posts, something odd is > obviously going on with the list..... while (horse.dead) { beat(beat(beat())); } From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 11 16:15:06 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] List problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51705.198.74.20.77.1013465353.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Lee J. Behrens said: > Well, as various people have reported in various posts, something > odd is obviously going on with the list..... the only thing unusual that i have noticed is that the list has been peppier in the past week or so... > > 1. Some posts are dated from months ago. old mail stuck at the botton of the mail queue would be my guess... > 2. Some people report their posts don't show up until hours or > days later, well after other posts with later timestamps arrive > on the scene. they way i understand it is this: the mail queue fills up, new mail get stored in a temp location until it can be queued for sending, the queue empties a bit but before the stored mail can be recovered new mail comes in and fills the queue again, > 3. Some people report their posts never show up. probably sent from an unlisted email, or they are stuck in question 2 > > Is there a hardware problem, like a drive dying a sloooow death? no, just a busy box... > > Lee Behrens -munir > > P.S. In addition to this post, I sent two others 8 Feb 2002 10:53 > AM CT and 9 Feb 2002 12:29 AM CT that have not yet appeared on > the list. if you need answers NOW the #tclug on irc.openprojects.net is the best bet. From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 11 16:31:29 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUBJECT IN BIG OBVIOUS LETTERS (WAS: LIST PROBLEMS) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020211162730.6f056b6d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Lee J. Behrens" wrote: > > Well, as various people have reported in various posts, something odd is > obviously going on with the list..... *sigh* THERE IS A KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE TCLUG MAILING LIST. WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT IT FOR MONTHS. BOB TANNER, THE MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATOR, HAS BEEN `INJECTING' MESSAGES FROM THE LINUX-KERNEL MAILING LIST ONTO THE SERVER THAT ALSO HANDLES THE TCLUG MAIL. BOB HAS DONE A GOOD JOB TRYING TO SPEED THINGS UP AND LIST ACCESS TIMES ARE NOW PRETTY SANE. THANK YOU BOB. THANK YOU BOB. THANK YOU BOB. THERE ARE STILL SOME OLD MESSAGES IN THE QUEUE, AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO POP UP. SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE. NOW, PLEASE, STOP ASKING, BEFORE I GO HTML ON YER ASS. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ kernel: lp0 on fire! / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/de5f45de/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Feb 11 16:46:33 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <20020211204340.GJ20582@fandre.com> Message-ID: Isn't this the kind of thing tclug-announce is for? I don't care that someone want's to announce their event. I may find it interesting, and it may be a group I haven't heard of before. I wouldn't know about the TCPHP users group or the TCPC usergroup if not for various announcments on TCLUG. What about beermeeting announcments? They aren't exactly Linux related. IIRC correctly, they came out of a totally Off Topic conversation. Just make use of [OT] in your Subject and I'm happy. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 11 16:47:18 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUBJECT IN BIG OBVIOUS LETTERS (WAS: LIST PROBLEMS) In-Reply-To: <20020211162730.6f056b6d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020211162730.6f056b6d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1013467318.8183.22.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 16:27, Mike Hicks wrote: > THERE IS A KNOWN PROBLEM WITH THE TCLUG MAILING LIST. WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT > IT FOR MONTHS. BOB TANNER, THE MAILING LIST ADMINISTRATOR, HAS BEEN > `INJECTING' MESSAGES FROM THE LINUX-KERNEL MAILING LIST ONTO THE SERVER > THAT ALSO HANDLES THE TCLUG MAIL. BOB HAS DONE A GOOD JOB TRYING TO SPEED > THINGS UP AND LIST ACCESS TIMES ARE NOW PRETTY SANE. THANK YOU BOB. > THANK YOU BOB. THANK YOU BOB. THERE ARE STILL SOME OLD MESSAGES IN THE > QUEUE, AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO POP UP. SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE. > > NOW, PLEASE, STOP ASKING, BEFORE I GO HTML ON YER ASS. hehehe. kick ass. Breath man breath! hahaha. Good post, damn good post. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/70f2cb84/attachment.pgp From jspinti at dartdist.com Mon Feb 11 17:01:21 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck References: <20020206160915.GA22292@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <0d7d01c1b350$18a66c40$47646496@dart> >> and mutt just doesn't like email folders created by lookout. >Huh? You mean the LookOut *.pst files? Sylpheed understands these? >Kmail does? Evolution does? Weird. Can you export the folder to a >standard mbox format? Does anybody know of a way to export Outlook .pst files into anything that is readable by the rest of the world? Or, alternatively, the Outlook Express 6.x .dbx files into something that can be imported into a Linux mail client? The two understand each other, but I have been unable to get anything else to read them... Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] all e-mail clients suck From joelr at ellegon.com Mon Feb 11 17:19:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] nvidia driver problem In-Reply-To: <1013467318.8183.22.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <20020211162730.6f056b6d.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <1013467318.8183.22.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202111659.4635@ellegon.com> Having installed the NVidia GLX and matching Mandrake rpms, and having made the changes in my XF86config-4 file, I get the following message when I run startx: XFree86 Version 4.2.0 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6600) Release Date: 18 January 2002 If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting problems. (See http://www.XFree86.Org/) Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.17 i686 [ELF] Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Mon Feb 11 16:57:56 2002 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4" (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVdriver kernel module! (EE) NVIDIA(0): *** Aborting *** (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: no screens found When reporting a problem related to a server crash, please send the full server output, not just the last messages. This can be found in the log file "/var/log/XFree86.0.log". Please report problems to xfree86@xfree86.org. XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. The following is my XF86Config-4 -- any ideas as to what I've got to do to get a usable configuration? (When I comment out the load "glx" line, and change Section "Device" Identifier "NVIDIA GeForce2 DDR (generic)" VendorName "Unknown" BoardName "Unknown" Driver "nvidia" to Section "Device" Identifier "NVIDIA GeForce2 DDR (generic)" VendorName "Unknown" BoardName "Unknown" Driver "nv" it works just fine, with the built-in Mandrake nv driver. Help? # File generated by XFdrake. # ********************************************************************** # Refer to the XF86Config(4/5) man page for details about the format of # this file. # ********************************************************************** Section "Files" RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) # By default, Mandrake 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of # the X server to render fonts. FontPath "unix/:-1" EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Server flags section. # ********************************************************************** Section "ServerFlags" # Uncomment this to cause a core dump at the spot where a signal is # received. This may leave the console in an unusable state, but may # provide a better stack trace in the core dump to aid in debugging #NoTrapSignals # Uncomment this to disable the server abort sequence # This allows clients to receive this key event. #DontZap # Uncomment this to disable the / mode switching # sequences. This allows clients to receive these key events. #DontZoom # This allows the server to start up even if the # mouse device can't be opened/initialised. AllowMouseOpenFail EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Input devices # ********************************************************************** # ********************************************************************** # Keyboard section # ********************************************************************** Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard1" Driver "Keyboard" Option "AutoRepeat" "250 30" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Pointer section # ********************************************************************** Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse1" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/usbmouse" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" # Option "Emulate3Buttons" # Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50" # ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice # Option "ChordMiddle" EndSection Section "Module" # This loads the DBE extension module. Load "dbe" Load "glx" # This loads the miscellaneous extensions module, and disables # initialisation of the XFree86-DGA extension within that module. SubSection "extmod" #Option "omit xfree86-dga" EndSubSection # This loads the Type1 and FreeType font modules Load "type1" Load "freetype" EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Monitor section # ********************************************************************** # Any number of monitor sections may be present Section "Monitor" Identifier "NEC|NEC MultiSync 6FG" VendorName "NEC" ModelName "Unknown" # HorizSync is in kHz unless units are specified. # HorizSync may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a # comma separated list of ranges of values. # NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S # USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS. HorizSync 30-96 # VertRefresh is in Hz unless units are specified. # VertRefresh may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a # comma separated list of ranges of values. # NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S # USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS. VertRefresh 47-150 # This is a set of extended mode timings typically used for laptop, # TV fullscreen mode or DVD fullscreen output. # These are available along with standard mode timings. # Sony Vaio C1(X,XS,VE,VN)? # 1024x480 @ 85.6 Hz, 48 kHz hsync ModeLine "1024x480" 65.00 1024 1032 1176 1344 480 488 494 563 -hsync -vsync # 768x576 @ 79 Hz, 50 kHz hsync ModeLine "768x576" 50.00 768 832 846 1000 576 590 595 630 # 768x576 @ 100 Hz, 61.6 kHz hsync ModeLine "768x576" 63.07 768 800 960 1024 576 578 590 616 EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Graphics device section # ********************************************************************** Section "Device" Identifier "Generic VGA" Driver "vga" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "NVIDIA GeForce2 DDR (generic)" VendorName "Unknown" BoardName "Unknown" Driver "nvidia" # VideoRam 32768 # Clock lines # Uncomment following option if you see a big white block # instead of the cursor! # Option "sw_cursor" Option "DPMS" "on" EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Screen sections # ********************************************************************** Section "Screen" Identifier "screen1" Device "NVIDIA GeForce2 DDR (generic)" Monitor "NEC|NEC MultiSync 6FG" DefaultColorDepth 16 Subsection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x400" ViewPort 0 0 EndSubsection Subsection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" ViewPort 0 0 EndSubsection Subsection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" ViewPort 0 0 EndSubsection Subsection "Display" Depth 32 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" ViewPort 0 0 EndSubsection EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "layout1" Screen "screen1" InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From florin at iucha.net Mon Feb 11 17:19:36 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] python install problem In-Reply-To: <3169.63.165.212.171.1013226147.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <3169.63.165.212.171.1013226147.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020211230317.GC459@iucha.net> On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 09:42:27PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a RedHat 7.1 box with python 1.5.2.rpm installed. I am trying to > upgrade it to 2.1. I get the list of needed dependencys: > > libcrypto.so.2 > lib-3.2.so > libreadline.so.4 > libssl.so.2 RedHat already provides packages for python2. Search PowerTools or "Extras". florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/e30d6d00/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Mon Feb 11 18:47:41 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic - Apology- TCPC Announcement Message-ID: I wanted to apologize if I posted something that people took offense to relative to TCPC's upcoming wireless meeting. Apparently I was not following proper netiquette and that was not my intent and am sorry. Possibly my ignorance of Linux led me to believe that some of the Wireless Networking to be covered in our upcoming meeting would only be Windows related. I assumed there might be some things Linux users would also use with the subject and it might be of use/interest to them. My intent was to provide an awareness of a upcoming event that I thought was dual purpose. If I post more TCPC events I will certainly try to remember to mark them "Off Topic" Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com From fertch at mninter.net Mon Feb 11 20:01:02 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: <20020211204340.GJ20582@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020211195228.36805d38.fertch@mninter.net> On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:39:42 -0600 (CST) "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > Isn't this the kind of thing tclug-announce is for? > > I don't care that someone want's to announce their event. I may find it > interesting, and it may be a group I haven't heard of before. I wouldn't > know about the TCPHP users group or the TCPC usergroup if not for > various > announcments on TCLUG. > > What about beermeeting announcments? They aren't exactly Linux related. > IIRC correctly, they came out of a totally Off Topic conversation. > > Just make use of [OT] in your Subject and I'm happy. I agree with Andy. If it's TCPC's monthly linux meeting, why not post it to TCLUG? It's linux related, and we have a few people from the lug who help them out. One notice a week prior would be fine, and not overbearing. As long as we don't get notices of the other OS' meetings, I'm happy. =) Shawn From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 11 21:25:06 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020212031314.GA8019@wookimus.net> Lee J. Behrens wrote: > For me personally, Win2K has a much better TOC than Linux. Why? Most > of my experience is with Windows. ...and that about sums it up for most "IT" Managers as well, those that are under pressure to deliver a "platform" that users are "used to" and "comfortable with"; desktops that have "intuitive designs" and are "easy to navigate". Having worked at two places now where I wear the hats of Systems Manager and Technical Support, I can agree that every skill level and preference for computing environments is represented at any business or organization. Some people can be directed with a few hints, and other people must be led by the hand. Talking about TCO is a much larger topic about what one prefers personally, however. It relates, certainly, but it does transcend that limited scope. If anyone knows me at all, they know that I am a large proponent of distributed and thin-client solutions. What does this mean? * X/Win Terminals * X Application Servers * Windows Application Servers (Citrix MetaFrame) * File Servers * Development Clusters * Batch processing software * Distributed computing software Luckily, most of these requirements are found in the Free Software realm. More is found in the Open Software realm. Lastly, some is found in Commercial software/platforms. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) From dsherman at real-time.com Mon Feb 11 21:41:04 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... Message-ID: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Hey everyone, Remember last week (around Feb 5), when those wierd emails showed up from me and I thought my mail server had been cracked? Well, now I'm not so sure. I was looking over the logs again, to try and puzzle out what happened, and I realized something. All the entries showing an Internet IP address logging into my mail server were ME! I forgot that I had my pop server address listed as sildara.dyndns.org, and that FQDN resolves to my own static IP address. At first I didn't catch it, but then I realized, that there is no way someone could spoof their address to be the same as mine. Also, the connections were occurring at ten-minute intervals, the interval at which Evolution checks all my accounts. So, my own TCP packets were going out through my DSL router looking for my own static IP address. As soon as they hit the router's external interface with that IP address, they were NAT'd back into my LAN server by the router and checking my email. All this, of course, still does not explain the strange messages that almost certainly came from either my laptop or my server (which has a fairly complete backup of my laptop's home directory in my server-based home directory). Unfortunately, I have not yet seen anything suspicious in the logs, so I am somewhat stuck for clues. I haven't yet wiped the server, because i need my website to stay up for a couple more weeks, and just plain don't have time to do the job right at the moment. I already run snort (and have since day one), and it has logged lots of IP addresses and blocked them. On the 5th, when this all came to light, I re-ran tripwire, and it didn't show any unexpected changes. If anyone has any other ideas, please feel free to share. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/051a5611/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 11 21:58:03 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <1013486184.1531.7.camel@minime> On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 21:34, Dave Sherman wrote: > I already run snort (and have since day one), and it has logged lots of IP > addresses and blocked them. snort doesn't "block" attackers. At least not without a 3d party module that sets iptables(or ipchains) rules. And it _is_ possible to spoof ones IP address. It's non-trivial, but can be done. It's a matter of sending cutom built packets. It's used when attacking servers that are configured to allow certain hosts access to certain IP addresses. I don't know the details of such attacks, but I know it's possible. Snort is good about having the ability to log such malformed packets and todays IP stacks are better about ignoring them (there's also packet checksums that need to be correct as well as sequence numbers) not to mention things like hogwash... -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020211/ff7dd2d0/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Mon Feb 11 22:47:01 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Outlook PST -> mbox format Message-ID: <02021122103000.12534@edith> Whoever was looking for Outlook to mbox conversion, here is a library to convert PST files to mbox format http://sourceforge.net/projects/ol2mbox Description from the SF site: (With this project I trying to convert outlook express mailbox files to unix style mailboxfiles. We have made it the beta and works pretty good. It's still console based but we are working on a GTK interface.) From churchid at visi.com Mon Feb 11 23:06:03 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Vieths > I agree, too. If I wanted to know about basketweaving events, I'd joint > a basketweaving group. If I wanted to know PC events, I'd join TCPC. I > didn't, I joined a Linux group. TCPC doesn't need extra announcements, > they've got their own list for that. I could agree that it might be appropriate to have such vitriolic responses to a simple announcement for TCPC on this list *if* it had been an announcement about some Windows-specific topic. It was for a meeting on wireless networking, for crying out loud. It's as applicable to Linux as to any other OS. It's of potential value to many Linux users, yet not a topic that would necessarily be covered in a Linux user group sponsored event. If so many think that announcements like this should be labeled OT, I'm led to wonder why you don't get up in arms when *so* *many* other discussions on this go completely off topic, but yet are not labeled as such in the subject. Yikes. As upset as some of you seem to be over having a couple of posts in one week for something moderately useful to a potentially significant portion of the list, you wouldn't think that many of the same people lambasting these posts would be the same ones who just last week were posting boatloads of *crap* to this list just because they figured out how to add an extra header to their outgoing mail in an attempt to frustrate or anger Outlook users. Talk about *useless*. I'm beginning to wonder if this list is populated by 2-year-old kiddies or reasonable, intelligent adults. Okay, I'll retract that. There's only a very vocal few who are really giving me the impression of the former... Cheers, Dan From kelly-black at mediaone.net Mon Feb 11 23:23:19 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021122591700.13075@edith> Hey everybody: Underwater basket weaving at my house on Saturday night! To make it Linux related, I will be using... (damn, I could not find any GPL basket weaving applications). :-) Kelly Black 2 year old a heart. On Monday 11 February 2002 23:03, Dan Churchill wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Vieths > > I agree, too. If I wanted to know about basketweaving events, I'd joint > > a basketweaving group. If I wanted to know PC events, I'd join TCPC. I > > didn't, I joined a Linux group. TCPC doesn't need extra announcements, > > they've got their own list for that. > > I could agree that it might be appropriate to have such vitriolic responses > to a simple announcement for TCPC on this list *if* it had been an > announcement about some Windows-specific topic. It was for a meeting on > wireless networking, for crying out loud. It's as applicable to Linux as > to any other OS. It's of potential value to many Linux users, yet not a > topic that would necessarily be covered in a Linux user group sponsored > event. If so many think that announcements like this should be labeled OT, > I'm led to wonder why you don't get up in arms when *so* *many* other > discussions on this go completely off topic, but yet are not labeled as > such in the subject. > > Yikes. As upset as some of you seem to be over having a couple of posts in > one week for something moderately useful to a potentially significant > portion of the list, you wouldn't think that many of the same people > lambasting these posts would be the same ones who just last week were > posting boatloads of *crap* to this list just because they figured out how > to add an extra header to their outgoing mail in an attempt to frustrate or > anger Outlook users. Talk about *useless*. I'm beginning to wonder if > this list is populated by 2-year-old kiddies or reasonable, intelligent > adults. Okay, I'll retract that. There's only a very vocal few who are > really giving me the impression of the former... > > Cheers, > Dan From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Tue Feb 12 00:14:02 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lean and Mean Linux ... In-Reply-To: <200202110446.g1B4k3V11845@linuxserver.northlans.com> References: <200202110446.g1B4k3V11845@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <200202120616.g1C6GES16999@localhost.localdomain> Without having read the other replies to your question I'll say that RedHat 7.2 is a good solution. I installed RH on a similar Machine P200, 64 megs of mem, but I had a total of 4 gigs of space on 2 hard-drives. A 'workstation' install takes 1.6 gigabytes, more or less, but you can cut it down to less than 1 gig depending on what you want and/or need. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 12 00:14:32 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: <3C67D25A.3080206@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020212060557.GA418@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 11:03:18PM -0600, Dan Churchill wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Vieths > > I agree, too. If I wanted to know about basketweaving events, I'd joint > > a basketweaving group. If I wanted to know PC events, I'd join TCPC. I > > didn't, I joined a Linux group. TCPC doesn't need extra announcements, > > they've got their own list for that. > > I could agree that it might be appropriate to have such vitriolic responses > to a simple announcement for TCPC on this list *if* it had been an > announcement about some Windows-specific topic. It was for a meeting on > wireless networking, for crying out loud. It's as applicable to Linux as to > any other OS. It's of potential value to many Linux users, yet not a topic > that would necessarily be covered in a Linux user group sponsored event. If > so many think that announcements like this should be labeled OT, I'm led to > wonder why you don't get up in arms when *so* *many* other discussions on > this go completely off topic, but yet are not labeled as such in the > subject. There is TCWUG for that. > Yikes. As upset as some of you seem to be over having a couple of posts in > one week for something moderately useful to a potentially significant > portion of the list, you wouldn't think that many of the same people > lambasting these posts would be the same ones who just last week were > posting boatloads of *crap* to this list just because they figured out how > to add an extra header to their outgoing mail in an attempt to frustrate or > anger Outlook users. Talk about *useless*. I'm beginning to wonder if this > list is populated by 2-year-old kiddies or reasonable, intelligent adults. > Okay, I'll retract that. There's only a very vocal few who are really > giving me the impression of the former... Nope, they were other folks with those headers ;) florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/e964cf7f/attachment.pgp From jts at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 12 01:23:45 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic - Apology- TCPC Announcement In-Reply-To: <200202120523.g1C5N5S17820@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 Terry Houle wrote: > I wanted to apologize if I posted something that people took offense to > relative to TCPC's upcoming wireless meeting. I for one was not offended by your post. More annoying to me were the multiple subsequent posts bitching about it being off topic. FYI- The TCWUG group (http://www.tcwug.org/) would probably be interested in the TCPC wireless meeting: Joel From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Tue Feb 12 01:38:55 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic - Apology- TCPC Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202120730.g1C7Uib02307@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Monday 11 February 2002 6:31 pm, Terry Houle wrote: > I wanted to apologize... > If I post more TCPC events I will certainly try to remember to mark them > "Off Topic" Apology accepted Terry. "OT" should make most people happy. Sometimes communcating via email is so much more complicated than just saying the words. NOTICE: this email has nothing to do with Linux...it's simply a considerate reply :^) From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Feb 12 07:31:43 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <02021122591700.13075@edith>; from kelly-black@mediaone.net on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 10:59:17PM -0600 References: <02021122591700.13075@edith> Message-ID: <20020212072438.V32696@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 10:59:17PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > Hey everybody: > Underwater basket weaving at my house on Saturday night! > To make it Linux related, I will be using... (damn, I could not find any GPL > basket weaving applications). It depends, will you be using this: http://www.truetex.com/poolcontrol.htm to control the chlorine content of the pool? > > :-) > > Kelly Black > 2 year old a heart. > -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From dan at williamsongraphics.com Tue Feb 12 07:47:02 2002 From: dan at williamsongraphics.com (dan williamson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] converting outlook .pst to linux formats Message-ID: <200202121329.g1CDT4S23041@sprite.real-time.com> This ids for the person looking for a Outlook converter. Type in outlook at freshmeat and there are quite a few projects avaiable that I am sure at least one will do what you need it to do. lookout97 - About: lookout97 is a Python script for translating addressbook export files produced by Microsoft Outlook 97 (tab-separated) into either the KDE abbrowser addressbook format (KAB) or the GNOME gnome-card addressbook format (Vcard subset). liboe About: liboe reads Outlook Express 4/5 mailboxes and returns a standard Unix mailbox line by line to a user-specified function. Dan Williamson From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 12 08:07:59 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic - Apology- TCPC Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020212140013.GB418@iucha.net> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 06:31:23PM -0600, Terry Houle wrote: > If I post more TCPC events I will certainly try to remember to mark them > "Off Topic" ... and if you want to completely shut them up, add a X-message-flag header to your e-mail, containing TCPC or TCWG so they can filter it out their overfull inboxes. Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/803076c2/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Tue Feb 12 08:09:31 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020212031314.GA8019@wookimus.net> References: <20020212031314.GA8019@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <02021208011801.00789@geezer> On Monday 11 February 2002 21:13, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Lee J. Behrens wrote: > > For me personally, Win2K has a much better TOC than Linux. Why? Most > > of my experience is with Windows. > > ...and that about sums it up for most "IT" Managers as well, those that > are under pressure to deliver a "platform" that users are "used to" and > "comfortable with"; desktops that have "intuitive designs" and are "easy > to navigate". > > Having worked at two places now where I wear the hats of Systems Manager > and Technical Support, I can agree that every skill level and preference > for computing environments is represented at any business or > organization. Some people can be directed with a few hints, and other > people must be led by the hand. > Having provided that role in more than two places I agree whole-heartedly! The reappearance of this thread and the arrival of the current PCConnections catalog yesterday got me thinking about an analysis I did when Win2K first came out. At that time I dubbed it "The Guru Exchange Rate". I decided to breakout the calculator and revisit the analysis based on "current pricing". Scenerio: Small Business with: 35 Workstations (Mix of Win 9x, NT Workstation, and 2000 Professional) 50% MS Office penetration: 18 Workstations. (Mix of Office 97 and Office 2K) 2 Windows NT Servers; 1 File and Print, 1 Exchange (and maybe Proxy) Question: If a consultant (me) cost $500/day for onsite consulting (I do) then how many days of me onsite can this Business get for installation and training/support for the cost of upgrading all systems to XP Professional and Office XP? Answer: Based on the current PCConnections catalog the cost of upgrades are: $200/WS - Windows XP Professional - Total Upgrade cost = $7000 = 14 days $280/WS - Office XP Professional - Total Upgrade cost = $5040 = ~10 days Assumptions: Average time per workstation install (using SuSE 7.3 Pro) = 1.5 hrs/WS Total time required for WS installs = 52.5/hrs @ 8 hrs/day = ~ 7 days Time available for training and support = ~17 days Basic Linux training for 35 users in groups of 5 for 1 day class = 7 days StarOffice training for 18 users in groups of 3 for 1 day class = 6 days Remaining onsite support days = ~4 Its not a perfect analysis. But I think it provides a starting point for discussion. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Tue Feb 12 08:26:19 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? Message-ID: <2b68dfff02173c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> >Assumptions: >Average time per workstation install (using SuSE 7.3 Pro) = 1.5 hrs/WS >Total time required for WS installs = 52.5/hrs @ 8 hrs/day = ~ 7 days >Time available for training and support = ~17 days I can see a long line forming now of people eagerly waiting to teach the staff how to use Linux;) A good book that does a lot of these sorts of comparisons is "The Unix Guide to Defenestration" find it at www.winface.com Scanned by Mail Essentials. From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 12 08:58:02 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] woohoo! Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514EBF@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I've been waiting for something like this: http://developers.of.pl/projects/entauth/ Too bad I don't have a j2me compliant cell phone. Does anyone know if you can buy keychain tokens that will work for this? Jay From ben at nerp.net Tue Feb 12 09:15:04 2002 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! yay, now he can goto the beermeetings, and actualy have a beer :) - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBPGkvo8tpDhsSpvgtAQEi5wP+OqQPpEef+afcuJZYDmv3w6OD6u0bHInu SdgOA6ybMoH1aFA7LksE313d8h0TkVExkTjJPdAQ3N2VlCjw0U4mYtnmdFV0c+a9 dGh6rRgCqxvvpfB8ooyaBpbar/nAZjulMdgDmqxXJAJqh+7oWIM5pGObKYK1ViFI Gtd6mY4X3t8= =xDVl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Feb 12 09:37:07 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <1013486184.1531.7.camel@minime> References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <1013486184.1531.7.camel@minime> Message-ID: <1013527711.4727.5.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 21:56, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 21:34, Dave Sherman wrote: > > I already run snort (and have since day one), and it has logged lots of IP > > addresses and blocked them. > > snort doesn't "block" attackers. At least not without a 3d party module > that sets iptables(or ipchains) rules. Yes, you are correct of course. I forgot that I was also running Guardian :-) > And it _is_ possible to spoof > ones IP address. It's non-trivial, but can be done. It's a matter of > sending cutom built packets. It's used when attacking servers that are > configured to allow certain hosts access to certain IP addresses. I > don't know the details of such attacks, but I know it's possible. That would be interesting to see. How does a do packets destined for a server's own interface address ever leave the box to get to a spoofing system? Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/1f168a80/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 12 09:52:57 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <1013527711.4727.5.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <1013486184.1531.7.camel@minime> <1013527711.4727.5.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <1013528678.2852.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 09:28, Dave Sherman wrote: > That would be interesting to see. How does a do packets destined for a > server's own interface address ever leave the box to get to a spoofing > system? Like I said, I have no idea how the attack works. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/e1908bfd/attachment.pgp From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Feb 12 10:10:18 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <1013528678.2852.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <1013486184.1531.7.camel@minime> <1013527711.4727.5.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <1013528678.2852.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <1013529694.4721.23.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 09:44, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 09:28, Dave Sherman wrote: > > That would be interesting to see. How does a do packets destined for a > > server's own interface address ever leave the box to get to a spoofing > > system? > > Like I said, I have no idea how the attack works. Yeah, that last question was more of a generic, "Hmmm..." type of comment. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/1720b4fe/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 12 10:48:01 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] allo? Message-ID: testing, 1234.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Feb 12 11:15:04 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic - Apology- TCPC Announcement Message-ID: Terry, I really don't think a formal apology is in order as the [Off Topic] subject marker is more a list policy than netiquette, and is not communicated well (no "list policy" link at the bottom or anything). I'd say about half the people on the list do appreciate the non-Linux related content the list provides, but in deference to those that don't, and considering that this is a Linux list, all of those posts should be marked [Off Topic] or [OT]. If a future TCPC event is Linux related or will have some Linux content, it definitely has a place on this list and does not need an [OT] marker. At least that is my opinion. Any disagreement? Good luck, Troy >>> houle@citilink.com 02/11/02 06:31PM >>> I wanted to apologize if I posted something that people took offense to ... "Off Topic" From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 12 11:15:42 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] allo? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Nate Carlson wrote: > testing, 1234.. heh, time warp! -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jack at jacku.com Tue Feb 12 11:34:36 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <2b68dfff02173c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> References: <2b68dfff02173c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> Message-ID: <02021211202300.00794@geezer> On Tuesday 12 February 2002 08:15, Ryan Ware wrote: > >Assumptions: > >Average time per workstation install (using SuSE 7.3 Pro) = 1.5 > > hrs/WS > > >Total time required for WS installs = 52.5/hrs @ 8 hrs/day = ~ > > 7 days > > >Time available for training and support = ~17 days > > I can see a long line forming now of people eagerly waiting to > teach the staff how to use Linux;) > > A good book that does a lot of these sorts of comparisons is > "The Unix Guide to Defenestration" find it at www.winface.com > > Scanned by Mail Essentials. > Thanks for the pointer. I may have to get myself a copy of that book! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From bobdove at pipeline.com Tue Feb 12 12:10:29 2002 From: bobdove at pipeline.com (Bob W. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43mi6ussuls9so77mqljgaopi2rder3lbi@4ax.com> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > In our new PC mode, shouldn't this post have been marked OT? >Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! > >yay, now he can goto the beermeetings, and actualy have a beer :) > >- -ben From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Feb 12 12:42:01 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! In-Reply-To: <43mi6ussuls9so77mqljgaopi2rder3lbi@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Bob W. Anderson wrote: > In our new PC mode, shouldn't this post have been marked OT? Tough call, he did mention the beer meeting. And Happy Birthday, Scott. Hey! I know what would put this on topic. Is there an open source project that I can put in a cron job to wish people happy birthdays? -Brian From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 12 12:43:09 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! In-Reply-To: <43mi6ussuls9so77mqljgaopi2rder3lbi@4ax.com> References: <43mi6ussuls9so77mqljgaopi2rder3lbi@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20020212183457.GC418@iucha.net> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 12:02:07PM -0600, Bob W. Anderson wrote: > > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > In our new PC mode, shouldn't this post have been marked OT? > > >Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! > > > >yay, now he can goto the beermeetings, and actualy have a beer :) > > > >- -ben Yes, Ben, your post should have been marked OT. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/a7a23623/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Feb 12 13:02:05 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT?] Happy Birthday Scott! Message-ID: Maybe. Scott is definitely Linux related, but I think it's only his middle name. Happy Birthday, Scott 'Linux' Dier! ;-) Troy >>> bobdove@pipeline.com 02/12/02 12:02PM >>> >In our new PC mode, shouldn't this post have been marked OT? From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Tue Feb 12 13:19:31 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! References: <43mi6ussuls9so77mqljgaopi2rder3lbi@4ax.com> <20020212183457.GC418@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3C696995.B8BEEB1B@securecomputing.com> WTF??? The subject is already "Happy Birthday Scott!" Wouldn't the OT be a duplication of effort here? Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 12:02:07PM -0600, Bob W. Anderson wrote: > > In our new PC mode, shouldn't this post have been marked OT? > > > > >Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! > > > > > >yay, now he can goto the beermeetings, and actualy have a beer :) > > > > > >- -ben > > Yes, Ben, your post should have been marked OT. > -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Feb 12 13:36:53 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! Message-ID: If I had a human being presorting my mail, you'd be right. But I don't. >>> jesse_erdmann@securecomputing.com 02/12/02 01:14PM >>> WTF??? The subject is already "Happy Birthday Scott!" Wouldn't the OT be a duplication of effort here? Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 12:02:07PM -0600, Bob W. Anderson wrote: > > In our new PC mode, shouldn't this post have been marked OT? > > > > >Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! > > > > > >yay, now he can goto the beermeetings, and actualy have a beer :) > > > > > >- -ben > > Yes, Ben, your post should have been marked OT. > -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Feb 12 13:51:58 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020212194641.GD418@iucha.net> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 09:07:13AM -0600, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! > > yay, now he can goto the beermeetings, and actualy have a beer :) Ben, you see this the wrong way: now he can buy _us_ a beer :) Happy Birthday Scott! florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/abd44b90/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Feb 12 14:09:55 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Happy Birthday Scott! In-Reply-To: <20020212194641.GD418@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > Ben, you see this the wrong way: now he can buy _us_ a beer :) Hmm... do we need to start a beer meeting initiation prgram? ;-) -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Feb 12 16:44:02 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pure-ftpd possible security flaw? Message-ID: I'm running pure-ftpd on a server because wu is just too insecure for me. Today I was showing some commands to my co-workers about server side stuff and and I came across an interesting problem. I logged into my server (as lxy): ftp>remotehelp 200 Formatting man page... Segmentation fault (core dumped) root@ftp~:# EEEKK!! I don't like to see root@ anything I admin!! It dropped my session so I couldn't type but it appears it core dumped and gave me shell access as root! That doesn't seem like a good thing. Is this a known bug? Should I run down the street screaming? -Brian From jim at bleedpurple.com Tue Feb 12 23:27:56 2002 From: jim at bleedpurple.com (BleedPurpleGuy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SpamCop = SpamCrap? References: <20011030194410.G2855@real-time.com> Message-ID: <020201c1624d$f4485730$d129a541@host209> Never had this problem, but making sure all the headers are being forwarded is KEY. This includes all the "Received: From" lines. Sorry this isn't more help. I'm very interested in streamlining this process. I've been using procmail since the procmail presentation and have a pretty good spam-catching recipe. I'd like to get procmail to forward those messages (currently going into my "spamfilter" folder) to Spamcop. Has anybody done anything like this? I'm sure I'll have to use "F" for forwarding, "h" and "b" for header and body information. Any other tips? Eventually, I'd even like lynx to execute with the link in SpamCop's auto-reply message making this thing a pretty slick spam defense system... Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: [TCLUG] SpamCop = SpamCrap? > Ok, I thought I'd give SpamCop a try. I expanded the headers of the spam, and > forwarded it to spamcop@spamcop.net . > > Got this niffy autoresponse back. > > > Subject: SpamCop has accepted 1 email for processing > > > > SpamCop is now ready to process your spam. > > > > Note: Please use spam@cmds.spamcop.net instead of spamcop@spamcop.net. > > > > Members should use these links: > > http://members.spamcop.net/sc?tid=z25143423z67ed3781865afb2bd7bf098cc6861996 z > > > > Non-Members must use these links: > > http://spamcop.net/sc?id=z25143423z67ed3781865afb2bd7bf098cc6861996z > > Went to the non-member url and I get this message. > > Saved email: > This page may be saved for future reference: > http://spamcop.net/sc?id=z25143423z67ed3781865afb2bd7bf098cc6861996z > Guessing end of header is here:> > For more accurate results, please deliniate body with an empty line > > Parsing header: > No source IP address found, cannot proceed. Not full header? > No tracking information found in header: > > > Return-Path: > > Probably not full headers - see FAQ: > Email software FAQ > > no header > > Would send message source reports to: > Cookie option allows additional reporting in this space. > > Looking at the FAQ, I do have unset forward_decode in my rc file. What gives? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 12 23:28:58 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House References: Message-ID: <3C68B986.8020407@ringworld.org> Dan Churchill wrote: > list is populated by 2-year-old kiddies or reasonable, intelligent adults. No, you said it. And, to make you sleep better at night, a good chunk of us would end up setting up a killfile instead of bitching about it. I know I would. -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 12 23:29:27 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Happy Birthday Scott! References: Message-ID: <3C697859.5090803@ringworld.org> Ben Kochie wrote: > Happy Birthday to Scott Dier! Thanks everybody! :) -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 12 23:30:04 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Fwd: SAGE Certification discount] Message-ID: <3C69CE99.5010000@ringworld.org> I know someone here might be interested. It's a damn good price for the exams. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: SAGE Certification discount (59075) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:56:32 -0800 (PST) From: sage-enotify@usenix.org Reply-To: sage-enotify@usenix.org To: sdier@cs.umn.edu Special for SAGE Members only! SAGE Certification is making a special offer only for SAGE members and their friends. From now through Sunday, February 17th, we are extending a special SAGE members and friends discount for 50% off either of the two cSAGE beta exams. Instead of the regular $100 regular beta price, SAGE members and friends can take the exams for only $50 each. These beta exams are ideal for junior level System Administrators, so please feel free to forward this message to anyone you know at this level. To Receive Your Discounted Beta Exam(s) Candidates MUST offer this promotion code while registering via the telephone agent, a center administrator or the web site: Beta Core Competency Exam Promo code: 207betacore50 Beta UNIX Module Exam Promo code: 207betaexam50 Each promotion code may be used 1 time per candidate. Exam registration must be made on or before 02/17/2002. Exam must be taken on or before 02/17/2002. If the promotion code is not entered, the discount will not get applied. For more information, please visit the SAGE Certification website at: http://www.sagecert.org. ****************************************************************** If you do NOT want to receive email announcements about USENIX Association activities, please reply to this message, and you will not receive future email notices. ****************************************************************** -- Scott Dier From idsfa at visi.com Tue Feb 12 23:30:36 2002 From: idsfa at visi.com (Michael Kellen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VMware in a post 2.4.6 world Message-ID: <1013570697.28025.2.camel@mitethe> Several people at the installfest asked me about how I got VMware running on a post 2.4.6 kernel. While my own kludgey solution (derived by commenting out certain sanity checks) was fairly stable, the following link also fixes an annoying bug in the networking code: Happy VM-ing. Michael Kellen -- $ fortune -m Kellen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020212/595e5be9/attachment.pgp From lbehrens at boolion.com Tue Feb 12 23:31:11 2002 From: lbehrens at boolion.com (Lee J. Behrens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] List problems Message-ID: First, I'd like to thank Munir Nassar for explaining why the list is having problems. As for the rest of you.... 1. I agree Bob has been doing a fine job. Volunteer work can be, and frequently is, a royal pain--you don't have to tell me. Fortunately, he keeps plugging away. TCLUG wouldn't be half of what it is without Bob. 2. I don't keep up on every issue on the list, so I was completely unaware there have been problems for months. (A few weeks yes, months no.) 3. I apologize for posting a message that was obviously such an inconvenience to you. I'm sure it won't happen again. Yeah, right. Lee Behrens From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 13 02:08:14 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] power/bloat != 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20011031154308.C4370@wookimus.net> On Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 04:23:52PM -0600, Brian wrote: > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, Hvidsten, Leif wrote: > > > I'm no mathematician but shouldn't it be P/B = 1? That way as power > > increases, so does bloated code essentially maintaining a value > > close to 1. > > You are correct. Power and bloat are proportional, whereas the > original poster suggested that poer and bloat are inversely > proportional. If they were inverse, I'd never need to upgrade and > life would be good. This is not always true. You must place constraints upon your argument before such a statement has any validity. Sometimes power can be achieved through auditing of code, reducing its overall size, it's memory profile, and it's CPU consumption. The terms "power" and "bloat" are therefore highly subjective and not useful in quantitative comparisons. Were you to say that qualitatively, power and bloat CAN be proportional, I would have nothing to argue about. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Key fingerprint = B4AB D627 9CBD 687E 7A31 1950 0CC7 0B18 206C 5AFD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/95aac481/attachment.pgp From jmlohren at citilink.com Wed Feb 13 09:31:09 2002 From: jmlohren at citilink.com (Jason Lohrenz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Setup References: <20011031154308.C4370@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <000601c1b4a2$409ac130$0200a8c0@gomer> Just signed up for the list, and hope to get some good info from the Linux Guru's out there. I'm working with a Telco company that is wanting to get into the ISP business. I suggesed looking into a Linux solution. They are looking at a 3 server solution (2 Radius servers (Primary/Secondary) and an e-mail server. Do any of you know any packages, or methods to have the accounting information related for all the servers -> ie have the radius info tied into the e-mail acocunts and such. Any help would be appreciated, as I'm fairly new to the Linux world, and a very new person to RADIUS services. TIA. JasonL From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 13 09:31:55 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] power/bloat != 1 In-Reply-To: <20011031154308.C4370@wookimus.net> References: <20011031154308.C4370@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020213152430.GA22349@wookimus.net> On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 03:43:08PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > ... Were you to say that qualitatively, power and bloat CAN be > proportional, I would have nothing to argue about. Heh... Timewarp. -- ^chewie Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/d9a71fdd/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Feb 13 10:13:11 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Setup In-Reply-To: <000601c1b4a2$409ac130$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Jason Lohrenz wrote: > I'm working with a Telco company that is wanting to get into the ISP > business. > I suggesed looking into a Linux solution. > They are looking at a 3 server solution (2 Radius servers > (Primary/Secondary) and an e-mail server. > Do any of you know any packages, or methods to have the accounting > information related for all the servers -> ie have the radius info tied into > the e-mail acocunts and such. Something I would suggest is what my ISP does.. keep the accounting info on a worksation tucked away on the corner with NO network access. Once a month, download the radius/xfer log data to a floppy and sneakernet it to the accounting machine. That way even in a complete server comprimise, customer data is locked away tightly. Then write import scripts into your favorite accounting package to sort the data and bill appropriately. -Brian From bbaptist at iexposure.com Wed Feb 13 10:44:05 2002 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE Message-ID: <200202131626.g1DGQtu24801@destiny.iexposure.com> I am on the securityfocus bugtraq mailing list. If you are also on it you may have noticed all the SNMP advisories coming through, for all you that are not on the bugtraq list, shame on you. Anyway the main point of this whole thing is to advise people if they are running SNMP it might be a very good idea to disable it. There are a slew of Denial of Service attacks and possible expoits that were just released. Here is an article to start you out: http://www.securityfocus.com/news/328 I need to get to work on my servers, see ya. -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ if u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Feb 13 10:45:54 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VMware in a post 2.4.6 world In-Reply-To: <1013570697.28025.2.camel@mitethe> Message-ID: VMWare 2.0.4 Build 1142 (the final 2.0 release) will only work through 2.4.6 without help. VMWare 3.0 is out, and it's 2.4 kernel support is more extensive. I've had it work through 2.4.16. VMWare 3 has a nice performance boost as well, and the USB support is rather nice for Visor/Clie/Handera owners. And fullscreen support in XFree4 works properly. If you currently have a VMWare 2 license, you might have missed out on the specal upgrade offers. Dunno, you'd have to check their site. Anyway, gonna stop talking like a sales drone now. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Feb 13 11:07:49 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F10@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> A good quick solution for this is to block snmp at your border routers and access-list the links you have to customers, and also block echo (7/udp) as it can be used to relay snmp attacks by spoofing the source address and port. This still doesn't protect you from people on the inside, but most organizations still need to run it for monitoring. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Bret Baptist [mailto:bbaptist@iexposure.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:27 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE > > > I am on the securityfocus bugtraq mailing list. If you are > also on it you > may have noticed all the SNMP advisories coming through, for > all you that are > not on the bugtraq list, shame on you. > > Anyway the main point of this whole thing is to advise people > if they are > running SNMP it might be a very good idea to disable it. > There are a slew of > Denial of Service attacks and possible expoits that were just > released. > > Here is an article to start you out: > http://www.securityfocus.com/news/328 > > I need to get to work on my servers, see ya. > > > -- > Bret Baptist > Systems and Technical Support Specialist > bbaptist@iexposure.com > Internet Exposure, Inc. > http://www.iexposure.com > > (612)676-1946 x17 > Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services > ------------------------------------------ > > > if u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Feb 13 11:11:19 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE Message-ID: <3121fe11031e8507d2@[172.29.97.10]> >I need to get to work on my servers, see ya. Redhat had a patch at 1:30 this morning, not bad for free software written by a bunch of unorganized hackers;) While in other news the other immensly rich and resource abundant software comany said. Patch availability Download locations for this patch A patch is under development and will be available shortly. When this happens, we will re-release this bulletin with information on how to obtain and install the patch. IPC 2002 From natecars at real-time.com Wed Feb 13 11:25:41 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE In-Reply-To: <200202131626.g1DGQtu24801@destiny.iexposure.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Bret Baptist wrote: > I am on the securityfocus bugtraq mailing list. If you are also on it > you may have noticed all the SNMP advisories coming through, for all > you that are not on the bugtraq list, shame on you. > > Anyway the main point of this whole thing is to advise people if they > are running SNMP it might be a very good idea to disable it. There > are a slew of Denial of Service attacks and possible expoits that were > just released. > > Here is an article to start you out: > http://www.securityfocus.com/news/328 > > I need to get to work on my servers, see ya. If you've got SNMP open to the world, you've got problems anyways. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Feb 13 11:40:20 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Walnut Creek CD-ROM? Message-ID: <20020213112629.A28340@fireopal.org> OK, I was curious - I was thinking about getting a new(er) copy of Project Gutenberg on CD-ROM. I used to get it from Walnut Creek - www.cdrom.com redirects to www.simtel.net, www.wccdrom.com resolves, but the server doesn't answer. Has Walnut Creek gone out of business? Does anyone have any suggestions on the best place to get a clone of Project Gutenberg at this time? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 13 12:09:56 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE In-Reply-To: <3121fe11031e8507d2@[172.29.97.10]> References: <3121fe11031e8507d2@[172.29.97.10]> Message-ID: <1013623449.1287.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 10:53, Ryan Ware wrote: > >I need to get to work on my servers, see ya. > > Redhat had a patch at 1:30 this morning, not bad for free > software written by a bunch of unorganized hackers;) > RedHat is far from the typical "unorganized" hacker mentality that the rest of the open-sores movement suffers from. The people that develop most open source type things have "day-jobs" and thier OSS project is "second priority" because they need to feed their families. This is one of the main reasons redhat is more suitable for production environments IMNSHO. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/ee4075a5/attachment.pgp From klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net Wed Feb 13 12:26:05 2002 From: klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net (Chris Dresel) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Walnut Creek CD-ROM? In-Reply-To: <20020213112629.A28340@fireopal.org> References: <20020213112629.A28340@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <02021312145000.00631@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> On Wednesday 13 February 2002 11:26, you wrote: > OK, I was curious - I was thinking about getting a new(er) copy of > Project Gutenberg on CD-ROM. > > I used to get it from Walnut Creek - www.cdrom.com redirects to > www.simtel.net, www.wccdrom.com resolves, but the server doesn't > answer. > > Has Walnut Creek gone out of business? Does anyone have any > suggestions on the best place to get a clone of Project Gutenberg at > this time? Try http://promo.net/pg/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Feb 13 12:44:04 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE In-Reply-To: <1013623449.1287.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: On 13 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > RedHat is far from the typical "unorganized" hacker mentality that the > rest of the open-sores movement suffers from. The people that develop > most open source type things have "day-jobs" and thier OSS project is > "second priority" because they need to feed their families. This is one > of the main reasons redhat is more suitable for production environments > IMNSHO. Dude... what happened to you? First you become a redhat user, now this. What have they DONE to you? :-) -Brian From list at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 13 12:48:04 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ip route command Message-ID: <20020213183139.AAE169060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Has anyone been able to get the "ip" command to work on Debian stable? I know it is a 2.2.x kernel, but it should still be able to handle iproute2 interface. It even has a package for it. Every time I try and run it I get strange "Dump" errors. Jay From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Feb 13 12:52:37 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Walnut Creek CD-ROM? In-Reply-To: <02021312145000.00631@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> References: <20020213112629.A28340@fireopal.org> <02021312145000.00631@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> Message-ID: <20020213124125.F28340@fireopal.org> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:14:50PM -0600, Chris Dresel wrote: > On Wednesday 13 February 2002 11:26, you wrote: > > OK, I was curious - I was thinking about getting a new(er) copy of > > Project Gutenberg on CD-ROM. > > > > I used to get it from Walnut Creek - www.cdrom.com redirects to > > www.simtel.net, www.wccdrom.com resolves, but the server doesn't > > answer. > > > > Has Walnut Creek gone out of business? Does anyone have any > > suggestions on the best place to get a clone of Project Gutenberg at > > this time? > > Try http://promo.net/pg/ I went there - they routed me to Walnut Creek (which is how I found www.wccdrom.com existed, I'd tried going straight to www.cdrom.com first) and another site. I forget the name of the other site - but the internal inconsistencies on the web page I was directed to did NOT inspire confidence! Such things as showing multiple different prices for the CD-ROM _on the same screen_! -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Feb 13 13:04:38 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE Message-ID: <318576f8031f1c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> >On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 10:53, Ryan Ware wrote: >>I need to get to work on my servers, see ya. >> >> Redhat had a patch at 1:30 this morning, not bad for free >> software written by a bunch of unorganized hackers;) >> >RedHat is far from the typical "unorganized" hacker mentality that the >rest of the open-sores movement suffers from. The people that develop >most open source type things have "day-jobs" and thier OSS project is >"second priority" because they need to feed their families. This is one >of the main reasons redhat is more suitable for production environments >IMNSHO. >-- >Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. I agree. I was just playing on what MS would like people to believe the Linux community is, and drawing attention to the fact that MS, as organized as they would like us to believe they are, don't have a patch done. We run one Redhat server here. I really like the up2date feature. Much easier to SSH in and work on than say PC Anywhere'ing into one of our Windows boxes to to apply a patch that you just know is going to make you reboot. IPC 2002 From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 13 13:35:05 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE In-Reply-To: <318576f8031f1c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> References: <318576f8031f1c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> Message-ID: <20020213192132.GA2005@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:44:29PM -0600, Ryan Ware wrote: > [snip] florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/e8c6b0f2/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 13 14:12:13 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Setup In-Reply-To: References: <000601c1b4a2$409ac130$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: <20020213195947.GC22349@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:05:15AM -0600, Brian wrote: > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Jason Lohrenz wrote: > Something I would suggest is what my ISP does.. keep the accounting > info on a worksation tucked away on the corner with NO network access. > Once a month, download the radius/xfer log data to a floppy and > sneakernet it to the accounting machine. That way even in a complete > server comprimise, customer data is locked away tightly. Then write > import scripts into your favorite accounting package to sort the data > and bill appropriately. Very good advice. A little draconic, but good advice none-the-less. I wouldn't be too jumpy about keeping the usage accounting statistics on net-accessible machines, as long as the data is redundantly spread across a couple machines (at least), and as long as you've secured down the box as much as possible. (i.e. Only run the software you need to complete the task at hand, do your development on another box. Shut off all services except those that are absolutely needed. etc.) Personal information, such as Names, credit card numbers, account numbers, financial information, etc, should certainly be kept on a private network, not accessible via the net or as Brian put, not connected at all. Again, only install the software that is necessary to complete said task. Make sure your printer is local. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/5fed12b1/attachment.pgp From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Feb 13 14:28:02 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake does PostgreSQL poorly Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This just in from a PostgreSQL discussion list. The normal behaviour for PostgreSQL is to listen on unix sockets and write it's log to STDOUT. In this case Mandrake turns on the internet sockets by default without SSL or stunnel. It also does all of it's logging to /dev/null. I'm just astonished. Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:48:40 -0800 From: Patrick Hatcher To: Patrick Hatcher Cc: Josh Berkus , pgsql-novice@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Function Hangs I found the Postmaster startup file. Here is the start params: su -l postgres -c "/usr/bin/pg_ctl -D $PGDATA -p /usr/bin/postmaster -o " - -i" start >/dev/null 2>&1" would the name of the log file go where the /dev/null is? - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- It was a Mandrake install, so it auto-starts during system start up. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Thanks. Stupid question: Where would I find the database log? Wherever you put it in your startup options for Postmaster. I usually put mine in /var/log/postgresql. How do you start postmaster? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8astYfexLsowstzcRAsiBAJ91ee9v93dUie0ekH2kgrkPSmwWcACg3mDL qxku8bvT5/f3FwvAVWEPtok= =1M0h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Feb 13 15:36:13 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Best Setup In-Reply-To: <20020213195947.GC22349@wookimus.net> References: <000601c1b4a2$409ac130$0200a8c0@gomer> <20020213195947.GC22349@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <200202131449.41984@ellegon.com> On Wednesday 13 February 2002 01:59 pm, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:05:15AM -0600, Brian wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Jason Lohrenz wrote: > > Something I would suggest is what my ISP does.. keep the accounting > > info on a worksation tucked away on the corner with NO network access. > > Once a month, download the radius/xfer log data to a floppy and > > sneakernet it to the accounting machine. That way even in a complete > > server comprimise, customer data is locked away tightly. Then write > > import scripts into your favorite accounting package to sort the data > > and bill appropriately. > > Very good advice. A little draconic, but good advice none-the-less. I > wouldn't be too jumpy about keeping the usage accounting statistics on > net-accessible machines, as long as the data is redundantly spread > across a couple machines (at least), and as long as you've secured down > the box as much as possible. (i.e. Only run the software you need to > complete the task at hand, do your development on another box. Shut off > all services except those that are absolutely needed. etc.) > > Personal information, such as Names, credit card numbers, account > numbers, financial information, etc, should certainly be kept on a > private network, not accessible via the net or as Brian put, not > connected at all. Again, only install the software that is necessary to > complete said task. Make sure your printer is local. Probably worthwhile advice in general; after installed Mandrake, I went through and shut down all the services that I don't use. (I'm not, for example, running ftp or a website or a mailing list or a database, so I shut down all those services. The only thing that I'm at all concerned about -- perhaps, as opposed to "should be concerned about" -- is SMTP, and I *think* I've got access restricted to local addresses, as I'm running fetchmail to fetch my mail, and don't need a full mailserver locally.) If somebody wants to, at some point, see if they can get into my system (without hurting it), I'd love to see if it's possible. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From jared-linux at mn.rr.com Wed Feb 13 15:41:02 2002 From: jared-linux at mn.rr.com (Jared Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Printing programatically on Linux Message-ID: Hola. Eclipse (free, open source: www.eclipse.org) recently added printer support to its Linux builds, but I suspect that we may have made a mistake in our choice of implementations. As I understand things (I'm not on the team that implemented this feature), it was coded up to use the XPrint (xprt) server. I'd never heard of this server before, and the folks who implemented this feature are not Linux-gurus. So my question is, is Xprt a commonly used print server? Does it make sense to assume that people are running it? Also, are there more sensible choices to be made (lpr, cups, etc.)? Thanks, - Jared From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 13 16:47:39 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP HOLE In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F10@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F10@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020213163843.06b1f471.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > A good quick solution for this is to block snmp at your border routers and > access-list the links you have to customers, and also block echo (7/udp) as > it can be used to relay snmp attacks by spoofing the source address and > port. Ah.. That's what the problem was with echo.. My boss had mentioned that echo should be turned off, but I thought it sounded pretty ludicrous for there to be an exploit for it. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Syntactic sugar causes / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ cancer of the semicolon. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/17a6ddef/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Feb 13 17:04:08 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need a 4U case Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F2F@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Does anyone have an old 4U rackmount ATX case they are willing to part with? 3U might work, but 4U would be preferable. Drop my an email privately if so. Thanks. Jay From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Feb 13 18:23:14 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] use of minicom and sz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am using minicom to configure RAIDs at work (instead of using hyperterm like everyone else around here) that works all fine and dandy. I can connect, send commands, whatever... my problem is that in order to upgrade the firmware, it is standard to use zmodem to send the new firmware image to the RAID controller. from what I've gathered, sz should send the image, but all sz does is blurt out the same output that i last got in my minicom screen, and hang itself. if anyone does anything of the sort, could you tell me if this command looks right. from reading the man, it looks like this should be right, but I may lack fundamental knowledge of the zmodem protocol, or something like that... # sz -b --zmodem /dev/ttyS0 -b because the file is a binary image, and --zmodem just to be safe...i have tried it without those two options with the exact same results. /dev/ttyS0 is where i connect to the controller in minicom. I have tried sending with sz while connected with minicom, and after disconnecting. same thing. any ideas? thanks, - Kremer From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 13 19:15:13 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] use of minicom and sz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020213191029.07ba62b2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Kremer wrote: > > my problem is that in order to upgrade the firmware, it is standard to use > zmodem to send the new firmware image to the RAID controller. from what > I've gathered, sz should send the image, but all sz does is blurt out the > same output that i last got in my minicom screen, and hang itself. > if anyone does anything of the sort, could you tell me if this command > looks right. from reading the man, it looks like this should be right, > but I may lack fundamental knowledge of the zmodem protocol, or something > like that... > # sz -b --zmodem /dev/ttyS0 sz, rz, and the [xy]modem commands generally talk to stdin/stdout, so you'd probably want to redirect IO. Not sure if this would work.. sz file < /dev/ttyS0 > /dev/ttyS0 But at any rate, you should be able to send files with zmodem from within minicom. Press CTRL-A then S, and you should be able to pick the zmodem protocol, then a file to upload. Whatever you're sending to generally has to be expecting a zmodem transfer, though.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I Have To Stop Now, My / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Fingers Are Getting Hoarse! \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/b68bd179/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Wed Feb 13 19:32:36 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <02021020430400.32597@edith> Message-ID: Now that I started this controversy on ON or Off topic and I won't comment on the number of items I have seen on this list since that were definitely Off Topic and not labeled as such. Can someone translate in very simple succinct terms what the "X-message-flag and "winmail.dat" means? It may be very simple and basic but I believe ON Topic. tia > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Kelly Black > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:43 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on > Wireless in your House > > > What was the winmail.dat for? Did it contain secret info for MS Outhouse > users? > > I suppose I should get as prissy as the Lookout users that > complain of having > priorities set on the mail from the X-message-flag settings. > > Kelly Black > > From michael.arolan at excite.com Wed Feb 13 19:58:13 2002 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (Michael Arolan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 Message-ID: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Hi Men & Women! How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in the shops? Regards Michael _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Feb 13 20:05:38 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Message-ID: download the cd image at www.linuxiso.org and make the cd yourself. - Kremer > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in > the shops? From andy at theasis.com Wed Feb 13 20:06:13 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 (RedHat) In-Reply-To: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Message-ID: > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in Download it from ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/ In particular, try ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/redhat/linux/7.2/en/. If you have a CD burner, grab an ISO. Good luck Andy > Michael > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 13 21:41:04 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021321302401.23472@edith> Terry, Even though I should not make verbatim copies of content of an article on the MS site (they say you can't re-post the copyrighted data on the site), here goes. Anybody know a chant to ward of MS lawyers? From houle at citilink.com Wed Feb 13 21:57:03 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: <02021321302401.23472@edith> Message-ID: Thanks for the input back Kelly. I was going to say it might be cause I had used RTF on the message but figured that would make me sound to ignorant. I think that is the first time in a long time as I had been using plain text. For some reason then I decided to turn on RTF. I always thought RTF was some kind of a generic format that could be read by most applications. Did not realize it was MS. terry > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Kelly Black > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:30 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting > on Wireless in your House > > > Terry, > Even though I should not make verbatim copies of content of an > article on the > MS site (they say you can't re-post the copyrighted data on the > site), here > goes. Anybody know a chant to ward of MS lawyers? > > >From Microsoft's site: > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q138053 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > SUMMARY > > KB0GBJ > > > > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 13 22:13:03 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on Wireless in your House In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021322064702.23472@edith> Not a problem Terry. I sound ignorant all the time on this list (I do try to read up on the subject from all the available documentation first so I don't get the old RTFM line (Read the forgotten manual)). I think you will find that the TCLUG list is forgiving of educated guesses. The people on this list are some of the most helpfull on dealing with GNU/Linux hurdles I have ever been in contact with (if you just do a little homework first!) Even if somebody calls you to task on the lack of knowledge on some subject, they are probably just poking some fun and probably don't mean to say you are ignorant. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 13 February 2002 21:50, "Terry Houle" wrote: > Thanks for the input back Kelly. I was going to say it might be cause I > had used RTF on the message but figured that would make me sound to > ignorant. I think that is the first time in a long time as I had been > using plain text. For some reason then I decided to turn on RTF. > > I always thought RTF was some kind of a generic format that could be read > by most applications. Did not realize it was MS. > > terry From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Wed Feb 13 22:48:27 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Message-ID: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> > Hi Men & Women! > > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in > the shops? send me $60 and I'll burn you a copy. From tanner at real-time.com Wed Feb 13 22:49:24 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how do i get off this list In-Reply-To: ; from kethry@winternet.com on Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:18:55AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020213223126.F14642@real-time.com> Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill (kethry@winternet.com): > > That's all well and good unless the account happens to be a yahoo > account!!! I tried doing the point and click thing and got nowhere in > unsubscribing my yahoo account - so I had to put a filter on that box to > dump TCLUG messages straight to the trash...:/ Posts go to /dev/null, web interface and admin requests to not. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From churchid at visi.com Wed Feb 13 22:51:02 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [OT] Rich text format Was: RANT (X-message-flag) . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021322395500.19430@nat4.dc.dan> On Wednesday 13 February 2002 09:50 pm, Terry Houle wrote: > Thanks for the input back Kelly. I was going to say it might be cause I > had used RTF on the message but figured that would make me sound to > ignorant. I think that is the first time in a long time as I had been > using plain text. For some reason then I decided to turn on RTF. > > I always thought RTF was some kind of a generic format that could be read > by most applications. Did not realize it was MS. I guess I didn't realize just where rich text format originated, but to be fair, this is at least one "standard" which M$ has released so that other people can use it. I found the definition online at: http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone22/cat187/2602.htm Of course, in true M$ fashion, the legalese gives them the right to basically change it for no good reason and not tell anyone, which quite possibly has happened . . . I wouldn't know, as I almost never use it, and have never needed to write programs to read or write it. Dan (My, but this thread just refuses to die!) From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 13 23:05:04 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <02021322524403.23472@edith> I will do it for $59.95! Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 13 February 2002 22:10,Joel Wickard wrote: > > Hi Men & Women! > > > > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it > > in the shops? > > send me $60 and I'll burn you a copy. From tanner at real-time.com Wed Feb 13 23:05:38 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org>; from dsherman@real-time.com on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 09:34:52PM -0600 References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <20020213225712.H14642@real-time.com> Quoting Dave Sherman (dsherman@real-time.com): > If anyone has any other ideas, please feel free to share. When in doubt, wipe it out... and re-install. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 13 23:39:09 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <20020213225712.H14642@real-time.com> References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020213225712.H14642@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020214053010.GA14639@8ball.wox.org> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:57:12PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Dave Sherman (dsherman@real-time.com): > > If anyone has any other ideas, please feel free to share. > > When in doubt, wipe it out... and re-install. Ewww... -- Brian Hicks "We did a lot of that, on TNG. The pointing and laughing, I mean." -- Wil Wheaton -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020213/8a459c85/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 01:30:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net>; from jwickard@litriusgroup.com on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:10:08PM -0600 References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020214012033.L14642@real-time.com> Quoting Joel Wickard (jwickard@litriusgroup.com): > > > Hi Men & Women! > > > > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in > > the shops? > > send me $60 and I'll burn you a copy. I hope this is a joke. If it is, I don't find it funny. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 01:32:43 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <20020214053010.GA14639@8ball.wox.org>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 11:30:10PM -0600 References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020213225712.H14642@real-time.com> <20020214053010.GA14639@8ball.wox.org> Message-ID: <20020214012402.M14642@real-time.com> Quoting Brian D. Hicks (hick0142@tc.umn.edu): > On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:57:12PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Dave Sherman (dsherman@real-time.com): > > > If anyone has any other ideas, please feel free to share. > > > > When in doubt, wipe it out... and re-install. > > Ewww... This is why a kick start of your base config is very handy. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From churchid at visi.com Thu Feb 14 01:45:08 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <02021322524403.23472@edith> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <02021322524403.23472@edith> Message-ID: <02021401360700.19754@nat4.dc.dan> All right. I've stated before how I would consider a Linux desktop, except it would cause me issues with games that only work under Windows, and thus I was staying with Windows and the Outlook e-mail client because it really is the most functional desktop e-mail client for my needs. But, I had (made) some time to tinker. I've set up Cygwin/XFree86 on my Windows box. I'm running an rhost-ed instance of my Linux desktop on the X server on my Windows box, essentially putting a Linux desktop on my primary PC, which allows me to keep my games for running under Windows, and still use my Linux desktop apps without moving to a different console. And, I'm just writing to say that it's great! I'm in the process of converting my Outlook .pst file to KMail mbox format, which is a less than an exact science using LibPST v0.2beta1 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=18756&release_id=74639), but it will be functional enough to get most of my mail moved out of the proprietary .pst format, which makes me *very* happy. Now, what is the best text-based e-mail client that can use the same mbox files as KMail, for when I'm accessing mail remotely. I know there are a lot of them...but what are people's favorites and what features make your favorite work best for you? Dan From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Thu Feb 14 02:50:44 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <20020214012033.L14642@real-time.com> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <20020214012033.L14642@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202140851.g1E8pX702175@yafa.redconcepts.net> yeah, especially since I'd do it for free. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From jts at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 04:27:44 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <200202140905.g1E95uS21415@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 Michael Arolan wrote: > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in > the shops? Download ISO images and burn CDs, or ... http://www.cheapbytes.com/ http://www.linuxcentral.com/ http://www.chguy.com/mir/ From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Thu Feb 14 07:56:03 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <20020214012033.L14642@real-time.com> Message-ID: <002d01c1b56d$42043800$7b181f18@destro> > > send me $60 and I'll burn you a copy. > > I hope this is a joke. If it is, I don't find it funny. Bob, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way with my callous joke. (yes it was a joke). If you send me $60, I'll send you a box of tissues. From jmlohren at citilink.com Thu Feb 14 08:15:49 2002 From: jmlohren at citilink.com (Jason Lohrenz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: Question. I did a fresh install of the download version of RH 7.2. I have an IDE Tarvan TR-5 tape drive. It works fine. I did all the updates. Finally there were 2 updates left and they were both Kernel updates. I downloaded the rpm's, and then installed then using rpm -i After it updated the kernel to 2.4.9-21 (I think the original was 2.4.7-10) it locks up when I try to use the tape drive. Should I be updating the kernel in a different way? Just curious. TIA. JasonL From leif at mn.rr.com Thu Feb 14 08:28:01 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code Message-ID: http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020213/n13366295_2.html Leif Hvidsten PGP ID: 0x3626E2CD Key Fingerprint: 21C2 286E 8FAF 25D1 9356 923A 0D05 6DE8 3626 E2CD From destef at destef.com Thu Feb 14 08:28:34 2002 From: destef at destef.com (Jason DeStefano) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: References: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com> How do I unsubscribe from this mailing list? The links listed at the bottom of the email and off of the web site are dead links... Jason From esper at sherohman.org Thu Feb 14 08:45:08 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [OT] Rich text format Was: RANT (X-message-flag) . . . In-Reply-To: <02021322395500.19430@nat4.dc.dan>; from churchid@visi.com on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:39:55PM -0600 References: <02021322395500.19430@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020214083900.A31097@sherohman.org> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:39:55PM -0600, Dan Churchill wrote: > I guess I didn't realize just where rich text format originated, but to be > fair, this is at least one "standard" which M$ has released so that other > people can use it. I found the definition online at: > http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone22/cat187/2602.htm > > Of course, in true M$ fashion, the legalese gives them the right to basically > change it for no good reason and not tell anyone, which quite possibly has > happened . . . I wouldn't know, as I almost never use it, and have never > needed to write programs to read or write it. I'm fairly sure that it has, since I've heard a number of comments over the years about "this is what the RTF spec says, but the _real_ standard is however Word does it this week". When talking about a proprietary standard, it seems that "proprietary" usually trumps "standard". -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 14 09:21:30 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <002d01c1b56d$42043800$7b181f18@destro> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <20020214012033.L14642@real-time.com> <002d01c1b56d$42043800$7b181f18@destro> Message-ID: <02021409104100.24797@edith> Me too. I thought the 59.95 would make it seem somewhat laughable, but I guess my witt is off base today. I will burn the iso images for the guy for a trade of some blank cd's actually. Kelly Black KB0BJ On Thursday 14 February 2002 09:35, you wrote: > > > send me $60 and I'll burn you a copy. > > > > I hope this is a joke. If it is, I don't find it funny. > > Bob, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way with my callous joke. (yes it > was a joke). > > If you send me $60, I'll send you a box of tissues. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 14 09:23:14 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com> References: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <02021409125601.24797@edith> Just went to the mailman web link and it worked fine. https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list You might wish to try to get to the site again. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 14 February 2002 08:22, you wrote: > How do I unsubscribe from this mailing list? > > The links listed at the bottom of the email and off of the web site are > dead links... > > > Jason > From jack at jacku.com Thu Feb 14 09:25:45 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> On Thursday 14 February 2002 08:16, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020213/n13366295_2.html > > Leif Hvidsten > PGP ID: 0x3626E2CD > Key Fingerprint: 21C2 286E 8FAF 25D1 9356 923A 0D05 6DE8 3626 E2CD > While interesting, I suspect that Microsoft will attempt to wriggle out of this by claiming that the case deals with Windows 95 & 98. They will contend that other versions of Windows are not covered by this case (specifically 2000 and XP). Or they will release just enough of the source code to prove their point and pull 95, 98, and ME from the market in retaliation claiming they can't keep selling them since the released information will be a help to malicious virus programmers everywhere. Result... corporate Windows users that had been running 9x are forced to upgrade to XP Professional (at $200-$300 a seat) or get a visit from the BSA for using expired licenses. Staying cynical... -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Feb 14 09:34:12 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F41@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> http://www.hancom.com Actually looks pretty cool. Based on QT 3.0. It's $30 for the standard version, and $50 for the professional one. They have a demo too, but I haven't gotten around to trying it. Someone on the Gentoo list said it was much better than StarOffice though. Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Feb 14 09:35:03 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F43@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Or... he could just download the bootdisk for it and install over the internet. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Kelly Black [mailto:kelly-black@mediaone.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:11 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 > Importance: High > > > Me too. > I thought the 59.95 would make it seem somewhat laughable, but > I guess my witt is off base today. > > I will burn the iso images for the guy for a trade of some > blank cd's actually. > > Kelly Black > KB0BJ > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 09:35, you wrote: > > > > send me $60 and I'll burn you a copy. > > > > > > I hope this is a joke. If it is, I don't find it funny. > > > > Bob, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way with my callous > joke. (yes it > > was a joke). > > > > If you send me $60, I'll send you a box of tissues. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From esper at sherohman.org Thu Feb 14 09:35:34 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Printing programatically on Linux In-Reply-To: ; from jared-linux@mn.rr.com on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 03:06:01PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020214092742.E31097@sherohman.org> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 03:06:01PM -0600, Jared Burns wrote: > So my question is, is Xprt a commonly used print server? Does it make sense > to assume that people are running it? Also, are there more sensible choices > to be made (lpr, cups, etc.)? There are many MTAs out there, but, since most software assumes that it can send mail by calling /usr/bin/sendmail with certain parameters, most of them install either a symlink or a wrapper at /usr/bin/sendmail which accepts (some subset of) the same command-line options as sendmail does. The software can find sendmail and use it for outgoing mail and the admin doesn't have to deal with sendmail configuration if he doesn't want to, so everyone's happy. Printing is a little trickier, since there are two standard print systems, each with it's own front-end and syntax: AT&T's lp system and BSD's lpr equivalent. Other print systems are typically happy to emulate one or both of these interfaces. Either lp or lpr would be a sensible choice for a generic print system to expect; I don't know about *nix in general, but lpr seems to be more common in Linux-land. Even better would be to have a configuration directive which allows the admin to choose whichever he prefers (or to check for the existence of the relevant binaries and just use what's there). -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From duncan at sodatrain.com Thu Feb 14 09:49:06 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Idea for OT posts... OT List Message-ID: <1013701070.1437.4.camel@money> Im a lurker on the NORLUG (Northfield LUG) and they just set up an OT list... I know this would require a little bit of 'smarts' when it comes posting time... but it may not be a bad idea... we could have tclug-ot@mn-linux.org, or tclug-list-ot or something similar. Just an idea. I dont personally mind OT posts, but for thoes that do this may be atractive duncan From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 14 09:50:55 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code Message-ID: I don't think there is a provision, even in my unreasonable EULA, that allows them to "expire" my licenses to Windows 98 or 95. They don't have to sell me any more of them though... If they could, I don't know if I would be replacing them with Windows XP Pro simply because I assume if they can do it once, they can do it again. >>> jack@jacku.com 02/14/02 08:56AM >>> Result... corporate Windows users that had been running 9x are forced to upgrade to XP Professional (at $200-$300 a seat) or get a visit from the BSA for using expired licenses. From bradyh at bitstream.net Thu Feb 14 10:11:12 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [OT] Rich text format Was: RANT (X-message-flag) . . . In-Reply-To: <20020214083900.A31097@sherohman.org> References: <02021322395500.19430@nat4.dc.dan> <20020214083900.A31097@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <1013702627.20748.13.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> I've had some first hand experience with this. I wrote a somewhat widely used open source program (in VB) to convert RTF to HTML. Then when Win2K came out they changed their format (not the spec - just the way they interpreted the spec) just enough so my program didn't work anymore...still that was really my fault for not following the spec as completely as I should have. On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 08:39, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:39:55PM -0600, Dan Churchill wrote: > > I guess I didn't realize just where rich text format originated, but to be > > fair, this is at least one "standard" which M$ has released so that other > > people can use it. I found the definition online at: > > http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone22/cat187/2602.htm > > > > Of course, in true M$ fashion, the legalese gives them the right to basically > > change it for no good reason and not tell anyone, which quite possibly has > > happened . . . I wouldn't know, as I almost never use it, and have never > > needed to write programs to read or write it. > > I'm fairly sure that it has, since I've heard a number of comments > over the years about "this is what the RTF spec says, but the _real_ > standard is however Word does it this week". When talking about a > proprietary standard, it seems that "proprietary" usually trumps > "standard". > > -- > When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists > have already won. - reverius > > Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jmlohren at citilink.com Thu Feb 14 10:23:01 2002 From: jmlohren at citilink.com (Jason Lohrenz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Idea for OT posts... OT List References: <1013701070.1437.4.camel@money> Message-ID: <001301c1b572$7b3c4090$0200a8c0@gomer> Either that or require using [TCLUG-OT] in the subject. For those that don't want to read them they can setup an e-mail filter to automatically delete e-mails with [TCLUG-OT] in the subjet. Just my 2c worth. JasonL ----- Original Message ----- From: "duncan" To: Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Idea for OT posts... OT List > Im a lurker on the NORLUG (Northfield LUG) and they just set up an OT > list... I know this would require a little bit of 'smarts' when it comes > posting time... but it may not be a bad idea... > > we could have tclug-ot@mn-linux.org, or tclug-list-ot or something > similar. > > > Just an idea. I dont personally mind OT posts, but for thoes that do > this may be atractive > > duncan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From dsherman at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 10:24:48 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cr/Hacked? -- maybe not... In-Reply-To: <20020213225712.H14642@real-time.com> References: <1013484897.2789.17.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> <20020213225712.H14642@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1013703439.3872.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 22:57, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Dave Sherman (dsherman@real-time.com): > > If anyone has any other ideas, please feel free to share. > > When in doubt, wipe it out... and re-install. Yeah, that is still my plan. I just need to make the time and do it. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/20ed5405/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Thu Feb 14 10:45:14 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021410280800.00961@geezer> On Thursday 14 February 2002 09:38, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I don't think there is a provision, even in my > unreasonable EULA, that allows them to > "expire" my licenses to Windows 98 or 95. > They don't have to sell me any more of them > though... > > If they could, I don't know if I would be replacing > them with Windows XP Pro simply because I > assume if they can do it once, they can do it again. > > >>> jack@jacku.com 02/14/02 08:56AM >>> > > Result... corporate Windows users > that had been running 9x are forced to upgrade to XP Professional (at > $200-$300 a seat) or get a visit from the BSA for using expired licenses. > I just looked at my 95 EULA and the provision I thought was in there about them having the right to change the license with "sufficient notice" isn't there. Of course the M$ FUD^H^H^H uh.. PR department will spin in such away that most corporate PHBs will believe they can't run the software "safely" anymore. Also I've seen some articles (pertaining to Office) that suggest that if a company is a participant in one of M$'s "license programs" those licenses maybe "adjustable". -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From tanner at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 10:56:08 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com>; from destef@destef.com on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 08:22:18AM -0600 References: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <20020214104220.N16171@real-time.com> Quoting Jason DeStefano (destef@destef.com): > > How do I unsubscribe from this mailing list? > > The links listed at the bottom of the email and off of the web site are > dead links... I just checked. All 3 of the links below work just fine. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From natecars at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 10:56:42 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Michael Arolan wrote: > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying > it in the shops? You can download it from our local mirror (ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/redhat), or you can let us (at Real Time) know you want a copy, and we'll burn it for you, in exchange for the blank CD's we use for it.. (just be sure to let us know a day or so before you want to stop by, so we can have it done for you.) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Feb 14 10:57:23 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F4D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Wow, their site is slow slow slow. I'm getting about 4.5k/sec on an 81.5MB download. At this rate, it's going to take all day. Does anyone have a copy of the .tgz file for the professional eval version? Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Austad, Jay [mailto:austad@marketwatch.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:21 AM > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux > > > http://www.hancom.com > > Actually looks pretty cool. Based on QT 3.0. It's $30 for > the standard > version, and $50 for the professional one. They have a demo > too, but I > haven't gotten around to trying it. Someone on the Gentoo > list said it was > much better than StarOffice though. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bob at printcraftinc.com Thu Feb 14 10:59:47 2002 From: bob at printcraftinc.com (Bob Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wyse 60 terminal emulation References: Message-ID: <3C6A8A93.7050505@printcraftinc.com> Hello, I am trying to gain access to a computer on our network running SCO Unix. We normally access this box from a Win98 machine running Wingate which used Wyse 60 emulation. My goal is to start replacing some of the Win98 boxes with Linux boxes. I am currently running Mandrake 8.1 on my test Linux box. Is there a terminal emulation programs within Linux that can do this? Thanks Bob From kaushik at cs.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 11:00:30 2002 From: kaushik at cs.umn.edu (Kaushik Sonduri Panthangi) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tiny linux Message-ID: I am looking for a Linux version that I can install in a laptop(intel P2 266MHz) which only has 80MB hard disk and runs only one application. Any ideas Thanks in advance. Kaushik. From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Feb 14 11:01:09 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: SNMP HOLE References: <3121fe11031e8507d2@[172.29.97.10]> <1013623449.1287.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C6AEB45.4020208@ringworld.org> Ben Lutgens wrote: > rest of the open-sores movement suffers from. The people that develop > most open source type things have "day-jobs" and thier OSS project is As a counterargument, people who administrate OSS by day and don't at least contribute some of their work day (if possible) towards security issues are missing one of the easiest ways for them to intergrate work for $$ and contributing back to Free software. -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Feb 14 11:02:23 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Printing programatically on Linux References: Message-ID: <3C6AEBA6.2020304@ringworld.org> Jared Burns wrote: > So my question is, is Xprt a commonly used print server? Does it make sense > to assume that people are running it? Also, are there more sensible choices > to be made (lpr, cups, etc.)? Please, please, please make it able to output postscript and send it to a bsd style lpr program. Native cups support is also cool, I've started running cups at home and its auto-printer-browsing-on-the-local-subnet features *rock*. -- Scott Dier From seg at haxxed.mine.nu Thu Feb 14 11:03:37 2002 From: seg at haxxed.mine.nu (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Speed Network Connection References: Message-ID: <3BE07916.2040805@haxxed.mine.nu> Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I think you can get cheaper equipment, but mind you, > you will be getting cheaper equipment. ;-) Netgear has > some switches for around $1000 and NICs for $300, > last time I checked. > > http://www.netgear.com/ > > You do want a switch, and you don't want a hub. > Someone mention the party line and modern switched > phone network analogy again, I don't remember the > words. Well what I've been told is there ARE no gigabit hubs. Apparently there's issues with collision detection at that speed. The actual details haven't been explained to me. Mind you, hubs are still in the IEEE spec. Since its in the 802.3 spec that an Ethernet is defined as a shared segment, it was easier to just write in a mode for GigE that no one actually implements, than it was to put together a new IEEE working group. At least, this is what I've been told. From andy at theasis.com Thu Feb 14 11:11:02 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Idea for OT posts... OT List In-Reply-To: <001301c1b572$7b3c4090$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: > Either that or require using [TCLUG-OT] in the subject. > For those that don't want to read them they can setup an e-mail filter to > automatically delete e-mails with [TCLUG-OT] in the subjet. > JasonL The problem with any such mechanism is influencing peoples' behavior so that they use it. Currently, any post that's perceived as a transgression of someone's idea of netiquette or bad mood generates 40 posts of various interpretation, griping, ranting or bickering. The only hope to clean up some of the noise is to have a published policy to which list members can and will be referred. Seems to me a minimal implementation is to * draft a policy based on input on the list * have a certain group (officers?) approve the policy and any changes to it. * make everyone agree to the policy before being allowed to post to the list * have it on the mn-linux web site, and linked to each mail along with the unsubscribe instructions * include in the policy an accepted method for informing someone they've violated it. Preferably one that's respectful, dignified and OFF list. Andy From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 14 11:18:57 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: SNMP HOLE In-Reply-To: <3C6AEB45.4020208@ringworld.org> References: <3121fe11031e8507d2@[172.29.97.10]> <1013623449.1287.23.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <3C6AEB45.4020208@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020214170632.GA6288@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 04:40:05PM -0600, Scott M. Dier wrote: >Ben Lutgens wrote: > >As a counterargument, people who administrate OSS by day and don't at >least contribute some of their work day (if possible) towards security >issues are missing one of the easiest ways for them to intergrate work >for $$ and contributing back to Free software. > Except that you don't get paid to do that sort of work by your employer (which is often the case) and that may be viewed as a misuse of your company time. A real ass-of-a-boss might view that as grounds for dismissal. You make a valid point though scott. And I aggree that people should try to take what they learn from working and feed it back, _especially_ if the company they work for is reaping the copious benefits of open source or free software applications. My current employer has no problems with that sort of thing thankfully. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/c48b780b/attachment.pgp From carlos at eberhardt.net Thu Feb 14 11:20:21 2002 From: carlos at eberhardt.net (Carlos Eberhardt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F41@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F41@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <1013706485.6751.120.camel@sunflower.eberhardt.net> On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 09:21, Austad, Jay wrote: > http://www.hancom.com > > Actually looks pretty cool. Based on QT 3.0. It's $30 for the standard > version, and $50 for the professional one. They have a demo too, but I > haven't gotten around to trying it. Someone on the Gentoo list said it was > much better than StarOffice though. > Gobe Productive 3 ( http://www.gobe.com ) is supposed to be available for Linux Real Soon Now, too. 3 is out for Windows now, but I haven't used it much. Used 2.0 a fair bit in BeOS. Really great package. Lots of "wow, why don't other apps work this well?" when I was messing with it. I'm waiting anxiously for the Linux version. carlos From duncan at sodatrain.com Thu Feb 14 11:27:01 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F4D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F4D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <1013706851.1437.12.camel@money> hmmm... was looking in detail about their mail client quicksilver.. screenshot: http://www.hancom.com/en/products/img/quicksilver_l.gif and you will notice: "Aethera - Technology Preview Release" in the title bar, and still has the Aethera Mail logo in it. Aethera is a Kompany project : http://www.thekompany.com/projects/aethera/ So... it looks as if its not an all new project... wonder whats going on.. maybe they are trying to rip off thekompany.com? On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 10:44, Austad, Jay wrote: > Wow, their site is slow slow slow. I'm getting about 4.5k/sec on an 81.5MB > download. At this rate, it's going to take all day. Does anyone have a > copy of the .tgz file for the professional eval version? > > Jay > > From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Feb 14 11:29:29 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F4D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F4D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200202141112.51616@ellegon.com> On Thursday 14 February 2002 10:44 am, Austad, Jay wrote: > Wow, their site is slow slow slow. I'm getting about 4.5k/sec on an 81.5MB > download. At this rate, it's going to take all day. Does anyone have a > copy of the .tgz file for the professional eval version? > > Jay I've got the same download going; if it gets here first, I'll send the file to you. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Austad, Jay [mailto:austad@marketwatch.com] > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:21 AM > > To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' > > Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux > > > > > > http://www.hancom.com > > > > Actually looks pretty cool. Based on QT 3.0. It's $30 for > > the standard > > version, and $50 for the professional one. They have a demo > > too, but I > > haven't gotten around to trying it. Someone on the Gentoo > > list said it was > > much better than StarOffice though. > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > > Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From tanner at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 11:37:23 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wyse 60 terminal emulation In-Reply-To: <3C6A8A93.7050505@printcraftinc.com>; from bob@printcraftinc.com on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 10:47:31AM -0500 References: <3C6A8A93.7050505@printcraftinc.com> Message-ID: <20020214112620.A17743@real-time.com> Quoting Bob Hanson (bob@printcraftinc.com): > Hello, > > I am trying to gain access to a computer on our network running SCO > Unix. We normally access this box from a Win98 machine running Wingate > which used Wyse 60 emulation. > > My goal is to start replacing some of the Win98 boxes with Linux boxes. > I am currently running Mandrake 8.1 on my test Linux box. > > Is there a terminal emulation programs within Linux that can do this? Just set your term type to wy60. export TERM=wy60 In the past I have found ansi to work better for SCO -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 11:37:51 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tiny linux In-Reply-To: ; from kaushik@cs.umn.edu on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:45:24PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> Quoting Kaushik Sonduri Panthangi (kaushik@cs.umn.edu): > I am looking for a Linux version that I can install in a laptop(intel P2 > 266MHz) which only has 80MB hard disk and runs only one application. > Any ideas > Thanks in advance. I'd try peewee linux http://www.peeweelinux.org -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Thu Feb 14 11:47:37 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tiny linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202141735.g1EHZsb29314@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Wednesday 13 February 2002 12:45 pm, Kaushik Sonduri Panthangi wrote: > I am looking for a Linux version that I can install in a laptop(intel P2 > 266MHz) which only has 80MB hard disk and runs only one application. > Any ideas Check the links for mini/floppy distros at the bottom right of this web page. Many selections... http://www.elinux.com/articles/distros/index.jsp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Feb 14 11:49:18 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F55@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I emailed thekompany.com about it. Apparently, they have some sort of partnership with thekompany. The professional version comes with some extra apps made by TheKompany. If you're going to purchase it, just buy the standard version, and download those extra apps for free from thekompany.com. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: duncan [mailto:duncan@sodatrain.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 11:14 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Hancom office suite for linux > > > hmmm... was looking in detail about their mail client quicksilver.. > > screenshot: > http://www.hancom.com/en/products/img/quicksilver_l.gif > > and you will notice: > > "Aethera - Technology Preview Release" in the title bar, and > still has > the Aethera Mail logo in it. > > Aethera is a Kompany project : > http://www.thekompany.com/projects/aethera/ > > So... it looks as if its not an all new project... wonder whats going > on.. maybe they are trying to rip off thekompany.com? > > > > > > > On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 10:44, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Wow, their site is slow slow slow. I'm getting about > 4.5k/sec on an 81.5MB > > download. At this rate, it's going to take all day. Does > anyone have a > > copy of the .tgz file for the professional eval version? > > > > Jay > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dante at plethora.net Thu Feb 14 11:59:02 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wyse 60 terminal emulation In-Reply-To: <3C6A8A93.7050505@printcraftinc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Bob Hanson wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to gain access to a computer on our network running SCO > Unix. We normally access this box from a Win98 machine running Wingate > which used Wyse 60 emulation. > > My goal is to start replacing some of the Win98 boxes with Linux boxes. > I am currently running Mandrake 8.1 on my test Linux box. > > Is there a terminal emulation programs within Linux that can do this? > Probably, but you should be able to run your existing terminal emulator under Wine/Dosemu if you don't find one. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From josh at greentechnologist.org Thu Feb 14 12:05:55 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tiny linux In-Reply-To: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If you were a Slacker like myself, then you would go install a base Slackware setup and work from there. That's a heaver-weight solution than peewee which appears to target the embedded space. I've run a largish slackware 7.0 install off of a 120MB superdisk with X, Mozilla and enough compiler support to rebuild the kernel (without the kernel source, of course) Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Kaushik Sonduri Panthangi (kaushik@cs.umn.edu): > > I am looking for a Linux version that I can install in a laptop(intel P2 > > 266MHz) which only has 80MB hard disk and runs only one application. > > Any ideas > > Thanks in advance. > > I'd try peewee linux http://www.peeweelinux.org > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8a/xQfexLsowstzcRAlgmAKDuZIdCY9S+kkiUBtQusFsI4eBr2gCg7Jm0 HyDfTpejw8S0Oh+9/wrk7IE= =EV/h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 12:15:34 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com> References: <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <200202141422.g1EEMI501823@ernie.destef.com> Message-ID: <20020214180625.GD14639@8ball.wox.org> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 08:22:18AM -0600, Jason DeStefano wrote: > > How do I unsubscribe from this mailing list? > > The links listed at the bottom of the email and off of the web site are > dead links... Well, this may relate to a problem mentioned earlier on this list about IE not accepting self-signed website certificates. You might want to try the website in netscape or mozilla. (assuming you were using IE) Or, you can use the e-mail interface (send a message to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org with the word "help" in the message body) -- Brian Hicks "We did a lot of that, on TNG. The pointing and laughing, I mean." -- Wil Wheaton -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/29fa5ae4/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Thu Feb 14 12:36:03 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code In-Reply-To: <02021410280800.00961@geezer>; from jack@jacku.com on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 10:28:08AM -0600 References: <02021410280800.00961@geezer> Message-ID: <20020214121545.G31097@sherohman.org> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 10:28:08AM -0600, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > Of course the M$ FUD^H^H^H uh.. PR department will spin in such away > that most corporate PHBs will believe they can't run the software "safely" > anymore. ...as opposed to the Open Source/Free Software types trying to convince the PHBs that they already can't run MS software safely. Now if we were only as good at it as MS's PR department... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From jmlohren at citilink.com Thu Feb 14 12:39:46 2002 From: jmlohren at citilink.com (Jason Lohrenz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs References: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> Message-ID: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> I've been using Taper for my backups. I have an IDE Seagate TR-5 Tape drive (10/20GB) Aparantly Taper has problems with the latest Kernel (2.4.9-21). If I boot into 2.4.7-10 it works fine. Any suggestions on other backup methods? TIA. JasonL From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu Feb 14 12:58:39 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> References: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: <15468.1496.926473.108854@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I'd like to hear more about this, too. I just got an old multi-DAT backup drive (SureStore). This seems to put me out of the taper league, but it's not clear where I go from here. Amanda seems unsuitable because (1) way too much configuration and installation for a pretty simple backup task and (2) can't do multi-tapes (and the obvious backup strategy would overflow a single DDS-2). So, do I just have to write my own script that uses mtx and tar? Hasn't somebody done this already? Thanks all, R From fertch at mninter.net Thu Feb 14 13:16:07 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config and lp(OT?) issues cd-rw also Message-ID: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> I'm putting Slack back on my desktop, and I have a MS Intellimouse optical. When I set the mouse to /dev/mouse, the pointer in x goes crazy. Same if I set it to /dev/psaux. Some additional info: I'm running a SB GeForce2 (GB0010) video card, and I set it up to use the Nvidia GeForce driver. Am I using the correct video driver, and what device do I point the mouse to? Oh, the mouse works fine with /dev/mouse with gpm started at bootup. The mouse is connected to a ps/2 connection. Under RH, the mouse was /dev/psaux. With the video card, I've read some of the postings on the nvidia open source drivers, but not all. I also looked at the driver webpage, but IIRC, weren't people running into issues with the drivers? The lp issues I'm having are with an HP box running 11.x. If I use the following command: lp -obin3 -olandscape -oa -ofCourier -ofp14 -d I run into some issues. It's going to a 4050 printer with a third tray added to it, it doesn't pull from the third tray. Also, the -obin3 options has permissions issues. As a user, it doesn't work. But as root, the -obin3 option works, but won't pull from the tray 3. I beieve I'm using the correct print options, however I wouldn't put much to it. Anyone have some insight into this? I also have a Yamaha IDE CD-RW. Under RH, it came up as cdrom1. Under Slack, I'm assuming I need to create the device? I didn't see any other cdrom listed in the /dev directory. Will I also need to enable the scsi emulation? Perhaps, I need to go see if there is a HOW-TO for more info. Thanks. Shawn From fertch at mninter.net Thu Feb 14 13:36:48 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code In-Reply-To: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> References: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> Message-ID: <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:56:49 -0600 Jack Ungerleider wrote: > While interesting, I suspect that Microsoft will attempt to wriggle out > of > this by claiming that the case deals with Windows 95 & 98. They will > contend > that other versions of Windows are not covered by this case > (specifically > 2000 and XP). Or they will release just enough of the source code to > prove > their point and pull 95, 98, and ME from the market in retaliation > claiming > they can't keep selling them since the released information will be a > help to > malicious virus programmers everywhere. Result... corporate Windows > users > that had been running 9x are forced to upgrade to XP Professional (at > $200-$300 a seat) or get a visit from the BSA for using expired > licenses. I don't understand this. If you buy a licensed product, in essence don't you now own that particular copy of it and it's license? By this, I mean that you own that copy, and are free to keep and use it as long as you want. The are limits to it generally: no copying (except at times allowed to make a "backup" copy of it), no installing on more machines than licensed for. But, if it's 20 years after the company pulls the product from the market, or goes to a newer one and effectively not supporting it anymore. It's still a "licensed product" isn't it? Otherwise, look at all the companies that were running Win 3.x after it was dropped from support. Or, even more so, the older versions of applications. Confuzzled.... From esper at sherohman.org Thu Feb 14 13:52:09 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code In-Reply-To: <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 01:27:57PM -0600 References: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020214134459.J31097@sherohman.org> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 01:27:57PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I don't understand this. If you buy a licensed product, in essence don't > you now own that particular copy of it and it's license? No. The license may be revokable and/or have an expiration date. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 14 14:26:40 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Software Licenses was "M$ may be forced toreveal Windows source code" Message-ID: >>> esper@sherohman.org 02/14/02 01:44PM >>> >>On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 01:27:57PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: >> I don't understand this. If you buy a licensed product, in essence don't >> you now own that particular copy of it and it's license? >No. The license may be revokable and/or have an expiration date. Indeed, but terms for revocation and/or expiration would be spelled out in the licensing agreement. And terms for end users (EULA) may be different from ones given to larger organizations. And some of the terms may or may not apply to you because of the laws in your country or state. Blah, blah, blah, ... From cbidler at innominatus.com Thu Feb 14 14:29:08 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (Chris Johnson Bidler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> Shawn Fertch wrote: > I'm putting Slack back on my desktop, and I have a MS Intellimouse >optical. When I set the mouse to /dev/mouse, the pointer in x goes crazy. > Same if I set it to /dev/psaux. Some additional info: I'm running a SB >GeForce2 (GB0010) video card, and I set it up to use the Nvidia GeForce >driver. Am I using the correct video driver, and what device do I point >the mouse to? Oh, the mouse works fine with /dev/mouse with gpm started >at bootup. The mouse is connected to a ps/2 connection. Under RH, the >mouse was /dev/psaux. > With the video card, I've read some of the postings on the nvidia open >source drivers, but not all. I also looked at the driver webpage, but >IIRC, weren't people running into issues with the drivers? > I've experienced problems with XFree86 4, wherein if I have gpm running in console land, and then I start X up, the X server and gpm 'fight' over the pointer, causing serious craziness (pointer jumps to an edge/corner and starts throwing up context menus randomly). Killing gpm fixes that right up. Hope this helps! -- Chris From tanner at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 14:43:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bookmarks, Bookmarks everywhere! How to centralize them? Message-ID: <20020214142446.G20180@real-time.com> This is getting a little ridiculous. I have bookmarks on my workstation at the office, on my laptop, on my workstation at home, and now my iPAQ. Any way to synchronize them? Centrally store them? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From foeclan at visi.com Thu Feb 14 14:43:54 2002 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config and lp(OT?) issues cd-rw also In-Reply-To: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: /dev/mouse is probably a link to /dev/psaux. What you're looking for is the Driver line for your mouse device in /etc/X11/XF86Config. Make sure it's set correctly. Otherwise it'll jump all over the place. You'll probably need to set up the buttons as well. There's more information on it at http://www.xfree86.org/4.1.0/mouse6.html#27 that should help get it configured. Dunno on the lp issue. As for the IDE CD-RW, it likely showed up as a /dev/hd. Type 'dmesg' and look through the output for where it's detected. In order to use it to write CDs, you'll want the enable SCSI emulation support in the kernel (enable general SCSI driver, disable IDE CD-ROM support, enable SCSI CD-ROM support, etc... I think the man pages for cdrecord have some suggestions on what needs to be set up). -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I'm putting Slack back on my desktop, and I have a MS Intellimouse > optical. When I set the mouse to /dev/mouse, the pointer in x goes crazy. > Same if I set it to /dev/psaux. Some additional info: I'm running a SB > GeForce2 (GB0010) video card, and I set it up to use the Nvidia GeForce > driver. Am I using the correct video driver, and what device do I point > the mouse to? Oh, the mouse works fine with /dev/mouse with gpm started > at bootup. The mouse is connected to a ps/2 connection. Under RH, the > mouse was /dev/psaux. > With the video card, I've read some of the postings on the nvidia open > source drivers, but not all. I also looked at the driver webpage, but > IIRC, weren't people running into issues with the drivers? > > The lp issues I'm having are with an HP box running 11.x. If I use the > following command: > > lp -obin3 -olandscape -oa -ofCourier -ofp14 -d > > I run into some issues. It's going to a 4050 printer with a third tray > added to it, it doesn't pull from the third tray. Also, the -obin3 > options has permissions issues. As a user, it doesn't work. But as root, > the -obin3 option works, but won't pull from the tray 3. I beieve I'm > using the correct print options, however I wouldn't put much to it. > Anyone have some insight into this? > > I also have a Yamaha IDE CD-RW. Under RH, it came up as cdrom1. Under > Slack, I'm assuming I need to create the device? I didn't see any other > cdrom listed in the /dev directory. Will I also need to enable the scsi > emulation? Perhaps, I need to go see if there is a HOW-TO for more info. > > > Thanks. > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From myok at ogzr.org Thu Feb 14 14:59:27 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Software Licenses was "M$ may be forced toreveal Windows source code" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020214144137.009ec330@ogzr.org> At 02:19 PM 2/14/02 -0600, esper wrote: > >>> esper@sherohman.org 02/14/02 01:44PM >>> > >>On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 01:27:57PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > >> I don't understand this. If you buy a licensed product, in essence don't > >> you now own that particular copy of it and it's license? > >No. The license may be revokable and/or have an expiration date. > >Indeed, but terms for revocation and/or expiration would >be spelled out in the licensing agreement. And terms for >end users (EULA) may be different from ones given to larger >organizations. And some of the terms may or may not >apply to you because of the laws in your country or state. As an example, the Telemagic for Unix contact management software I maintained back at Trimodal was licensed for "99 years." Then they dropped support for the Unix version completely. I felt good knowing I had 98 years to reverse-engineer the code ;-) -- Carl Patten From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 15:03:46 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config and lp(OT?) issues cd-rw also In-Reply-To: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020214205445.GB18315@8ball.wox.org> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 12:58:34PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I'm putting Slack back on my desktop, and I have a MS Intellimouse > optical. When I set the mouse to /dev/mouse, the pointer in x goes crazy. > Same if I set it to /dev/psaux. My guess would be that the protocol is set to PS/2 instead of IMPS/2, or vice versa. -- Brian Hicks This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm not that clever. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/d2a50b16/attachment.pgp From wilson at isis.visi.com Thu Feb 14 15:11:03 2002 From: wilson at isis.visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bookmarks, Bookmarks everywhere! How to centralize them? In-Reply-To: <20020214142446.G20180@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > This is getting a little ridiculous. I have bookmarks on my workstation at the > office, on my laptop, on my workstation at home, and now my iPAQ. > > Any way to synchronize them? rsync from an Internet-connected server somewhere? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 14 15:12:51 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bookmarks, Bookmarks everywhere! How to centralize them? In-Reply-To: <20020214142446.G20180@real-time.com> References: <20020214142446.G20180@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020214205931.GB10198@sistina.com> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 02:24:46PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: >This is getting a little ridiculous. I have bookmarks on my workstation at the >office, on my laptop, on my workstation at home, and now my iPAQ. > >Any way to synchronize them? http://bookmark4u.sourceforge.net/ a webbased bookmark manager. It has import/export functions and is mysql-backed. It rocks. > >Centrally store them? > >-- >Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 >http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 >Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/d1ac7652/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 14 15:28:10 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bookmarks, Bookmarks everywhere! How to centralizethem? Message-ID: >>> blutgens@sistina.com 02/14/02 02:59PM >>> >http://bookmark4u.sourceforge.net/ a webbased bookmark manager. It has >import/export functions and is mysql-backed. It rocks. Cool Ben! Thank you very much for the tip! Maybe now I can throw out my cobbled and kludgey mess and try this... :-) From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 14 15:29:01 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bookmarks, Bookmarks everywhere! How to centralizethem? Message-ID: An insecure db backed website for managing bookmarks? I've got one, but the syncing task is not yet tackled, so it is not so useful as yet... >>> tanner@real-time.com 02/14/02 02:24PM >>> >This is getting a little ridiculous. I have bookmarks on my workstation at the >office, on my laptop, on my workstation at home, and now my iPAQ. >Any way to synchronize them? >Centrally store them? From fertch at mninter.net Thu Feb 14 15:44:28 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config In-Reply-To: <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <20020214153555.72d5bc68.fertch@mninter.net> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:43:40 -0600 Chris Johnson Bidler wrote: > I've experienced problems with XFree86 4, wherein if I have gpm running > in console land, and then I start X up, the X server and gpm 'fight' > over the pointer, causing serious craziness (pointer jumps to an > edge/corner and starts throwing up context menus randomly). Killing gpm > fixes that right up. > > Hope this helps! Thanks Chris. This is exactly what it's doing in regards to bouncing on the borders, and random popup menus. I did take the imps/2 option on the xf86config program and it's doing this. I'll have to try it when I get home. Shawn From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 14 16:16:48 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Message-ID: <20020214221027.GA28188@wookimus.net> On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 02:39:03PM -0800, Michael Arolan wrote: > Hi Men & Women! And IdiotBen's, too? > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying > it in the shops? Go to www.freshiso.org and download the CD ISO images. Burn them to CD. Install. Your chosen "Subject:" header is incorrect. There is no such thing as "Linux 7.2". As much as I enjoy the recognition Red Hat has given to Linux, Red Hat IS NOT LINUX. Red Hat is a DISTRIBUTION of the Linux operating system: the kernel and the base software necessary to run and manage applications in the kernel. The correct subject line is: "Red Hat Linux 7.2". -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/4a97a8ef/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 14 16:33:11 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <02021401360700.19754@nat4.dc.dan> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <02021322524403.23472@edith> <02021401360700.19754@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020214222416.GB28188@wookimus.net> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 01:36:07AM -0600, Dan Churchill wrote: > All right. I've stated before how I would consider a Linux desktop, > except it would cause me issues with games that only work under > Windows, and thus I was staying with Windows and the Outlook e-mail > client because it really is the most functional desktop e-mail client > for my needs. This is a common view. > But, I had (made) some time to tinker. I've set up Cygwin/XFree86 on > my Windows box. I'm running an rhost-ed instance of my Linux desktop > on the X server on my Windows box, essentially putting a Linux desktop > on my primary PC, which allows me to keep my games for running under > Windows, and still use my Linux desktop apps without moving to a > different console. And, I'm just writing to say that it's great! This is a great option if you have the resources for multiple computers. Way to go! Cygwin is an excellent product. Red Hat certainly put a few feathers in their cap by adopting Cygwin. > I'm in the process of converting my Outlook .pst file to KMail mbox > format, which is a less than an exact science using LibPST v0.2beta1 > (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=18756&release_id=74639), > but it will be functional enough to get most of my mail moved out of > the proprietary .pst format, which makes me *very* happy. Thank you for the link. I've got some old email archives I'd love to move over from way back in '97. > Now, what is the best text-based e-mail client that can use the same > mbox files as KMail, for when I'm accessing mail remotely. I know > there are a lot of them...but what are people's favorites and what > features make your favorite work best for you? For mbox formatted email either mutt or pine are the two best console-based email clients. Mutt, IMHO, is far better than pine will ever be. ;-) One advantage to pine, however, is that it reads newsgroups as well as email. Mutt /may/ do so as well, but I haven't found a need to explore that avenue. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/5a9f3b17/attachment.pgp From klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net Thu Feb 14 16:48:01 2002 From: klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net (Chris Dresel) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <20020214221027.GA28188@wookimus.net> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <20020214221027.GA28188@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <02021416332100.04933@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> On Thursday 14 February 2002 16:10, you wrote: > On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 02:39:03PM -0800, Michael Arolan wrote: > > Hi Men & Women! > > And IdiotBen's, too? > > > How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying > > it in the shops? > > Go to www.freshiso.org and download the CD ISO images. Burn them to CD. > Install. > > > Your chosen "Subject:" header is incorrect. There is no such thing > as "Linux 7.2". As much as I enjoy the recognition Red Hat has > given to Linux, Red Hat IS NOT LINUX. Red Hat is a DISTRIBUTION of > the Linux operating system: the kernel and the base software > necessary to run and manage applications in the kernel. The correct > subject line is: "Red Hat Linux 7.2". > I see someone else got upset at that too... Glad to see someone is as observant as me... =) From mike at jentges.net Thu Feb 14 16:51:45 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (M. Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <200202140410.g1E4A8N01496@nic-31-c24-123.mn.mediaone.net> <02021322524403.23472@edith> <02021401360700.19754@nat4.dc.dan> <20020214222416.GB28188@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <000e01c1b5a9$39d27980$0696c7c7@victim> Ok it's been a long couple days, but AFAIK can't you accomplish the same thing with VNC? choice of window managers is limited I think, but.... -MJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu Feb 14 17:37:03 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone understand mandrake online? Message-ID: <15468.18029.863061.702506@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I've just installed a second copy of Mandrake @ home and was going to use their update widget on it. But.... it's not clear to me what's the right way. Do I need to make another Mandrake Online account for the new machine, or does their Mandrake Online thingie support one account having >1 machine? Anyone know? I can't seem to find any documentation about this question. Thanks! Robert From DCargo at marixtech.com Thu Feb 14 17:39:56 2002 From: DCargo at marixtech.com (Cargo, David) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and 120GB drives Message-ID: <960066CD690D114E830C60B43C421297760655@fd-ex-01.freedesk.com> I was thinking about buying a new machine to run Linux on. The new vpr MATRIX from Best Buy (see below) looks like a good deal for the hardware that comes with it. http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=488&cat=490&scat=491&e=11099473 Anybody here taken a look at this and know if popular Linux distros will work on it? I thought I had read something about Linux not supporting drives bigger than 100GB yet. David S. Cargo 1712 Hopkins Crossroad Minnetonka, MN 55305 952-548-9218 From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Feb 14 17:40:50 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux 7.2 (RedHat) References: Message-ID: <3C6C02B4.70007@ringworld.org> andy@theasis.com wrote: >>How can I get the latest version of Redhat Linux(7.2) short of buying it in >> > > Download it from ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/ > In particular, try ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/redhat/linux/7.2/en/. ftp://ftp.software.umn.edu/ also has full mirrors of RedHat and Mandrake. ftp://ftp.debian.org/ has a full local mirror of debian hosted at UMN. ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/ has debian and redhat mirrors, at least, hosted at real-time. Since this world up here is split into about two or three seperate factions of ISP groups, I would run a traceroute to see which one doesn't route to chicago and back. :) -- Scott Dier From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 18:15:19 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> References: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: <20020214180453.0fbb311f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Jason Lohrenz" wrote: > > I've been using Taper for my backups. > I have an IDE Seagate TR-5 Tape drive (10/20GB) > Aparantly Taper has problems with the latest Kernel (2.4.9-21). > If I boot into 2.4.7-10 it works fine. > Any suggestions on other backup methods? I'm using Amanda to back up two systems (and I might add a third if I can ever figure out how to get my laptop into a dump cycle -- that'd involve it powering up in the middle of the night, checking if it's on AC power, waiting for the dump to complete, and then suspending again). Amanda is great if you don't mind the way it works, and can work around the "can't have a dump bigger than a tape" problem. I've got a DDS-3 drive at home, which holds 12GB native. This is fine for most of my system, but I had to divide up my big `media' partition into separate subdirectories. Amanda will let you exclude certain directories from a dump, which is what I do. A while back, I divided my music folders into A-M and N-Z chunks, then used symlinks to emulate having them all in one directory. It works decently enough. I was kind of scared of Amanda at first, but I just sat down and read through the configuration file. It was pretty easy to do, just took a while. For the most part, Amanda is fire-and-forget. However, if you have a catastrophic system failure (losing the disk your root partition is on, for instance), it can be a pain to restore. It's possible, since Amanda just uses tar/gzip or whatever `dump' program is appropriate for your system, but it can be difficult. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ ^X^M / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/fd79b7b5/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 14 18:16:25 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config In-Reply-To: <20020214153555.72d5bc68.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:35:55PM -0600 References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> <20020214153555.72d5bc68.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020214180312.D32696@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:35:55PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Thanks Chris. This is exactly what it's doing in regards to bouncing on > the borders, and random popup menus. I did take the imps/2 option on the > xf86config program and it's doing this. I'll have to try it when I get > home. > I've also got an intellimouse, it works great in Red Hat as follows: gpm -t imps2 -m /dev/mouse Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "off" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection i leave gpm running, it works fine in X, /dev/mouse is a symlink to /dev/psaux. with the above settings the scroll wheel also works. > > > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 18:44:46 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config In-Reply-To: <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <20020214181533.6af976f3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Chris Johnson Bidler wrote: > > Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > I'm putting Slack back on my desktop, and I have a MS Intellimouse > >optical. When I set the mouse to /dev/mouse, the pointer in x goes crazy. [snip] > I've experienced problems with XFree86 4, wherein if I have gpm running > in console land, and then I start X up, the X server and gpm 'fight' > over the pointer, causing serious craziness (pointer jumps to an > edge/corner and starts throwing up context menus randomly). Killing gpm > fixes that right up. You can also set up gpm to work in a repeater mode, where data suitable for X11 will come out of /dev/gpmdata. However, it changes the format of the data in the process, so it isn't recognized as a PS/2 mouse anymore. I think it comes up as a Microsoft mouse instead. Also, I don't know if gpm will send the scrollwheel stuff through or not (anyone know?) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ There will be no last bus / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ tonight. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/7abb65e8/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Feb 14 18:55:52 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Routing (was: Linux 7.2 (RedHat)) In-Reply-To: <3C6C02B4.70007@ringworld.org> References: <3C6C02B4.70007@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020214182855.0b95d74c.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Scott M. Dier" wrote: > > Since this world up here is split into about two or three seperate > factions of ISP groups, I would run a traceroute to see which one > doesn't route to chicago and back. :) Speaking of which, would anyone care to explain why I get different routes when going to different departments of the U, even though they're on the same campus (okay, one's across the river). They're both pretty pathetic routes, considering I'm sitting (literally) 30 feet away from part of the University's network. [mike@3po][~]$ traceroute debian-mirror.cs.umn.edu traceroute to debian-mirror.cs.umn.edu (128.101.36.192), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 216.17.89.1 (216.17.89.1) 2 ms 2 ms 1 ms 2 isdn1.simcote.com (216.17.31.177) 40 ms 14 ms 216.17.73.197 (216.17.73.197) 9 ms 3 core-mpls.usinternet.com (216.17.3.1) 8 ms 13 ms 8 ms 4 border-mpls.usinternet.com (216.17.36.20) 8 ms 10 ms 23 ms 5 sl-gw4-roa-2-0-TS2.sprintlink.net (160.81.15.9) 37 ms 16 ms 20 ms 6 sl-bb22-roa-2-1.sprintlink.net (144.232.17.205) 20 ms 35 ms 52 ms 7 sl-bb22-chi-6-1.sprintlink.net (144.232.8.81) 46 ms 38 ms 73 ms 8 sl-gw33-chi-9-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.26.22) 27 ms 48 ms 35 ms 9 sl-mrnet-7-0.sprintlink.net (144.223.3.14) 72 ms 67 ms 59 ms 10 core1-so1-0-2.msc.mr.net (137.192.5.2) 33 ms 31 ms 31 ms 11 border4-po1.msc.mr.net (137.192.3.4) 31 ms 29 ms 37 ms 12 onvoy-otr.northernlights.gigapop.net (192.42.152.13) 27 ms 33 ms 101 ms 13 tc2-otr.northernlights.gigapop.net (192.42.152.133) 76 ms 87 ms 107 ms 14 tc3x.router.umn.edu (160.94.26.97) 80 ms 82 ms 100 ms 15 eecsci-1-rsmx.rswitch.umn.edu (160.94.26.69) 85 ms 84 ms 80 ms 16 * * * 17 debian-mirror.cs.umn.edu (128.101.36.192) 76 ms 111 ms 107 ms [mike@3po][~]$ traceroute www.csom.umn.edu traceroute to wwws2.csom.umn.edu (160.94.119.32), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 216.17.89.1 (216.17.89.1) 20 ms 20 ms 4 ms 2 216.17.73.197 (216.17.73.197) 154 ms 211 ms isdn1.simcote.com (216.17.31.177) 240 ms 3 core-mpls.usinternet.com (216.17.3.1) 35 ms 24 ms 15 ms 4 border-mpls.usinternet.com (216.17.36.20) 31 ms 20 ms 27 ms 5 500.Serial1-1.GW5.MSP1.ALTER.NET (157.130.123.105) 26 ms 9 ms 7 ms 6 158.at-1-0-0.CL1.MSP1.ALTER.NET (152.63.68.18) 11 ms 9 ms 17 ms 7 0.so-2-0-0.TL1.CHI2.ALTER.NET (152.63.67.125) 20 ms 32 ms 26 ms 8 0.so-7-1-0.TL1.POR3.ALTER.NET (152.63.0.66) 81 ms 96 ms 112 ms 9 0.so-6-0-0.XL1.SEA1.ALTER.NET (152.63.38.82) 94 ms 95 ms 90 ms 10 POS5-0.XR1.SEA1.ALTER.NET (152.63.106.226) 106 ms 108 ms 121 ms 11 195.ATM6-0.GW5.SEA1.ALTER.NET (146.188.201.65) 84 ms 78 ms 113 ms 12 tamerica-oc12sea1-gw.customer.alter.net (157.130.182.250) 97 ms 78 ms 79 ms 13 sea-core-01.tamerica.net (205.171.26.1) 77 ms 84 ms 118 ms 14 den-core-02.tamerica.net (205.171.8.81) 95 ms 108 ms 96 ms 15 den-edge-20.inet.qwest.net (205.171.16.42) 103 ms 134 ms 90 ms 16 63.145.65.118 (63.145.65.118) 122 ms 150 ms 121 ms 17 tc2-qtr.northernlights.gigapop.net (192.42.152.129) 159 ms 161 ms 132 ms 18 tc3x.router.umn.edu (160.94.26.97) 124 ms 124 ms 127 ms 19 hellerh-1-rsmx.rswitch.umn.edu (160.94.26.73) 141 ms 145 ms 296 ms 20 * * * 21 wwws2.csom.umn.edu (160.94.119.32) 138 ms 220 ms 118 ms -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ This one goes to eleven. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/40133717/attachment.pgp From wilson at isis.visi.com Thu Feb 14 19:00:25 2002 From: wilson at isis.visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help me understand this command Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm trying to get xplanet set up to run as the background on my KDE desktop. xplanet is really cool, BTW. (http://xplanet.sourceforge.net) The KDE Background configuration tool has the xplanet command set like this: xplanet --geometry %xx%y --output %f.jpg && mv %f.jpg %f Can someone interpret that for me? Where are the %x, %y, and %f coming from? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From kremer at ringworld.org Thu Feb 14 19:10:54 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: scsi cables In-Reply-To: <20020214180312.D32696@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: Anyone know of a good place to get SCSI cables that have been "bundled" to improve airflow and make case internals easier to get at, and sometimes even recognizable behind all the mess? I remember seeing an article on slashdot a while back about making your own regular IDE cables into those (i even tried one, and it sorta worked, but ended up being kinda short) but LVD makes the do it yourself method MUCH harder. Thanks, - Kremer From j at 4dvfx.com Thu Feb 14 20:54:03 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbie help Message-ID: <000a01c1b5ca$d01bab20$6401a8c0@win2k001> I'm trying to install SGI's Virtual Workstation Edition 3.1 on my Red Hat 7.1 system, hoping that maybe this way I can get my SGI VR3 Quadro to work properly. (I've already tried the nVidia drivers with no luck) I've downloaded all of the files, and followed all of their instructions and everything has worked so far, but now I have a .iso file but no burner in my machine, so I can't put it on CD. It says I can mount the ISO with a loopback device. Here are the instructions from the SGI site: Option #2 (requires nearly 1 GB of disk space): 1.. Mount the ISO image as a loopback device with the following command: # mount -o loop VWE3.1.iso /mnt/VWE Note: /mnt/VWE in the above command is the mount point and can be replaced with any directory of your choice. 2.. Change to whatever directory you used as your mount point, and then run the INSTALL script. but when I try this, I get the following message: Could not find any loop device, and, according to /proc/devices, this kernel does not know about the loop device. (If so, then recompile or 'insmod loop.o') I'm running 2.4.17, but I don't know where in make xconfig to find anything about loop devices. Would anyone be able to tell me how to go about taking care of this? Thanks for any help Jeff Schmidt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/02db8b70/attachment.html From j at 4dvfx.com Thu Feb 14 20:59:37 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbie help prt.2 Message-ID: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> also, if I reboot using kernel 2.4.2-2, and I try: # mount -o loop VWE3.1.iso /mnt/VWE I get: mount point /mnt/VWE does not exist any Ideas? Jeff From phil21 at five-elements.com Thu Feb 14 21:11:04 2002 From: phil21 at five-elements.com (Phil Doroff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: scsi cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Er, wouldn't cutting an LVD cable up be a Very Bad Thing(tm)? Considering they are in the funky "twisted pairs" format for a reason.. Perhaps if the pairs are kept together, but I still would have my doubts. If you did find a place that sold these, they would be expensive as hell. Way back when I needed 16 connector LVD cables they were about $110/ea, and had to be custom made. ;) -Phil > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Kremer > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:41 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: scsi cables > > > Anyone know of a good place to get SCSI cables that have been "bundled" > to improve airflow and make case internals easier to get at, and > sometimes even recognizable behind all the mess? > I remember seeing an article on slashdot a while back about making your > own regular IDE cables into those (i even tried one, and it sorta worked, > but ended up being kinda short) but LVD makes the do it yourself method > MUCH harder. > Thanks, > > - Kremer > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 14 21:12:45 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <20020214180453.0fbb311f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> <20020214180453.0fbb311f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <02021421044600.25098@edith> Speaking of backups, has anybody tried Mondo Rescue? http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/ Looks cool. I read an article about it a month or so ago in LJ or Linux Mag (can't remember which). Here is a blurb from the site: -------------- What is Mondo? ...It backs up your filesystem to tape, CD-R, CD-RW or NFS partition.In the event of catastrophic data loss, you will be able to restore some or all of your data, from bare metal if necessary. Mondo is cool. Mondo supports LVM, RAID and almost any filesystem you can name. You may even backup non-Linux partitions at the same time. -------------- I have used Amanda (did not set it up), just used it. I liked the reminder mails from the "you forgot to switch tapes" before you go home for the day, and the ability to write to a filesystem to dump the next day if you hosed something up. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 14 February 2002 18:04, Mike Hicks wrote: > "Jason Lohrenz" wrote: > > I've been using Taper for my backups. > > I have an IDE Seagate TR-5 Tape drive (10/20GB) > > Aparantly Taper has problems with the latest Kernel (2.4.9-21). > > If I boot into 2.4.7-10 it works fine. > > Any suggestions on other backup methods? > > I'm using Amanda to back up two systems (and I might add a third if I can > ever figure out how to get my laptop into a dump cycle -- that'd involve > it powering up in the middle of the night, checking if it's on AC power, > waiting for the dump to complete, and then suspending again). > > Amanda is great if you don't mind the way it works, and can work around > the "can't have a dump bigger than a tape" problem. > > I've got a DDS-3 drive at home, which holds 12GB native. This is fine for > most of my system, but I had to divide up my big `media' partition into > separate subdirectories. Amanda will let you exclude certain directories > from a dump, which is what I do. A while back, I divided my music folders > into A-M and N-Z chunks, then used symlinks to emulate having them all in > one directory. It works decently enough. > > I was kind of scared of Amanda at first, but I just sat down and read > through the configuration file. It was pretty easy to do, just took a > while. > > For the most part, Amanda is fire-and-forget. However, if you have a > catastrophic system failure (losing the disk your root partition is on, > for instance), it can be a pain to restore. It's possible, since Amanda > just uses tar/gzip or whatever `dump' program is appropriate for your > system, but it can be difficult. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 14 21:28:01 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbie help prt.2 In-Reply-To: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> References: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <02021421104801.25098@edith> Not sure, but did you ensure that the directory VWE exists under /mnt? Also as to the first question of how to make loopback devices see: man losetup I am no expert on how to use this, but did find it usefull when messing around with loopback filesystems (nifty way to get many files copied over to your Bochs file filesystem). Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 14 February 2002 20:53, Jeff Schmidt wrote: > also, if I reboot using kernel 2.4.2-2, and I try: > > # mount -o loop VWE3.1.iso /mnt/VWE > > I get: > > mount point /mnt/VWE does not exist > > any Ideas? > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at gimp.damnation.net Thu Feb 14 21:28:40 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone got InstallFest photos? Message-ID: Okay, it's been nearly two weeks, and some of us are wondering if anyone has InstallFest pictures. I know I saw a couple cameras there. Did they all get stolen? ;) Jima From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Thu Feb 14 21:29:24 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG OT] pointers on hardware? Message-ID: <016901c1b5de$c99c10a0$7b181f18@destro> I have a toshiba satellite 2805- S503. Does anyone have any pointers on where to find out exactly what kind of hardware and chipsets my laptop is running? I looked for "detailed specs" on the website, but didn't find anything more detailed than how fast the hard drive was. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to flame me I'd love that too. -Me From dsherman at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 21:30:06 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbie help prt.2 In-Reply-To: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> References: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <1013743383.5203.1.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 20:53, Jeff Schmidt wrote: > also, if I reboot using kernel 2.4.2-2, and I try: > > # mount -o loop VWE3.1.iso /mnt/VWE > > I get: > > mount point /mnt/VWE does not exist > > any Ideas? The directory /mnt/VWE must be created before you can mount a filesystem to it. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020214/0da13fdb/attachment.pgp From sextus at visi.com Thu Feb 14 21:30:53 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: scsi cables In-Reply-To: References: <20020214180312.D32696@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020215032237.GA20263@visi.com> ON Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 06:41:26PM -0600, Kremer wrote: > Anyone know of a good place to get SCSI cables that have been "bundled" > to improve airflow and make case internals easier to get at, and > sometimes even recognizable behind all the mess? > I remember seeing an article on slashdot a while back about making your > own regular IDE cables into those (i even tried one, and it sorta worked, > but ended up being kinda short) but LVD makes the do it yourself method > MUCH harder. > Thanks, http://google.com/search?hl=en&q=rounded+lvd+cable -- Michael From john at schererzoo.com Thu Feb 14 22:06:01 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux and iSCSI In-Reply-To: <1013743383.5203.1.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> <1013743383.5203.1.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <1013742848.4290.130.camel@elgato> Hi all, I have found several projects that deal with allowing linux to use iSCSI devices,(protocol initiators) but is anyone aware of a way to make a linux box look like an iSCSI device on the network? John Scherer From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Feb 14 22:07:56 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> References: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: I used to use taper as well and I recently ran into problems with taper and long paths. I've started using Arkeia, http://www.arkeia.com, and have been pretty happy with it. It's reasonably fast, it's free for Linux, and it allows multiple backups on the same tape, unlike Amanda. The only thing I might run into is that it doesn't seem to know how much is really on the tape since I'm using hardware compression, so it might have issues when I try and use all of the tape, but only time will tell on that one. "Jason Lohrenz" writes: > I've been using Taper for my backups. > I have an IDE Seagate TR-5 Tape drive (10/20GB) > Aparantly Taper has problems with the latest Kernel (2.4.9-21). > If I boot into 2.4.7-10 it works fine. > Any suggestions on other backup methods? > > TIA. > > JasonL > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 14 22:22:43 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone got InstallFest photos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021422203700.25205@edith> I snapped a few. Who wants them? I could mail, ftp or otherwise chuck them on a CD... Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Thursday 14 February 2002 21:14, you wrote: > Okay, it's been nearly two weeks, and some of us are wondering if anyone > has InstallFest pictures. I know I saw a couple cameras there. Did they > all get stolen? ;) > > Jima From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Feb 14 23:22:57 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question Message-ID: Hey all, Ok, so I got the 1000' of Cat5e, a bunch of RJ45 Cat5e-certified jacks, faceplates and modules, etc. And I wired the crap out of the place. Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put in. I just put in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B scheme), and THen plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch on the other end. Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine send request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all transmit and not receive. Naturally I have no Cat5 testing equipment, but I opened up a few plugsto make sure I _did_ in fact punch everything down correctly, and it looks like I did. Anyone have any clues/suggestions? -Yaron -- From chrome at real-time.com Thu Feb 14 23:53:02 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: M$ may be forced to reveal Windows source code In-Reply-To: <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 01:27:57PM -0600 References: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020214234012.D31929@real-time.com> > I don't understand this. If you buy a licensed product, in essence don't > you now own that particular copy of it and it's license? as I understand it, no. my understanding (and IANAL) is that software licences are covered by contract law, not property law. you don't *own* the software, you own a licence to use the software. this is how the software companies argue that you aren't allowed to take their software apart and find out how it works... it's not your property; it's their property. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From john at schererzoo.com Fri Feb 15 00:33:14 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013752394.4290.132.camel@elgato> I have a cat5 tester if you would like to borrow it.. -John On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 23:16, Yaron wrote: > Hey all, > > Ok, so I got the 1000' of Cat5e, a bunch of RJ45 Cat5e-certified jacks, > faceplates and modules, etc. And I wired the crap out of the place. > > Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put in. I just put > in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B scheme), and THen > plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch on the other > end. > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine send > request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. > > I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried > several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all > transmit and not receive. > > Naturally I have no Cat5 testing equipment, but I opened up a few plugsto > make sure I _did_ in fact punch everything down correctly, and it looks > like I did. > > Anyone have any clues/suggestions? > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From churchid at visi.com Fri Feb 15 00:50:13 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <000e01c1b5a9$39d27980$0696c7c7@victim> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <20020214222416.GB28188@wookimus.net> <000e01c1b5a9$39d27980$0696c7c7@victim> Message-ID: <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> On Thursday 14 February 2002 04:44 pm, M. Jentges wrote: > Ok it's been a long couple days, but AFAIK can't you accomplish the same > thing with VNC? choice of window managers is limited I think, but.... Perhaps. I have used VNC for accessing Windows machines remotely across a LAN. I'm not familiar with the specifics of how these programs all work, but I believe that with VNC, the information is transmitted as purely graphical, while with the local X server running on my Windows PC, all that is transferred is the drawing instructions, which are much less bandwidth intensive, and thus, perform better. Maybe I'm wrong about this. If someone knows better, correct me. Also, having never used VNC with Linux, maybe someone on the list can tell me - does the VNC Linux client take over the X desktop on the Linux workstation when someone is using VNC? That is, can you watch someone using the workstation remotely from the actual console (or vice versa)? This is what the Windows version of VNC does, and I don't really want that behavior for my particular situation. But, you are correct, that the net effect of what I have done is very VNC-like. Dan From churchid at visi.com Fri Feb 15 01:07:04 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021500574401.21229@nat4.dc.dan> On Thursday 14 February 2002 11:16 pm, Yaron wrote: > Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put in. I just put > in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B scheme), and THen > plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch on the other > end. > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine send > request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. > > I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried > several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all > transmit and not receive. If machines on both ends can transmit and not receive, then you have a confused wiring problem somewhere. Make sure that the white/colored side of each pair is the same on both ends. If you have dual-labeled 568A/B jacks, double and triple check that you looked at the right scheme. They're not that different, and this has frequently been my problem when I've screwed up the wiring scheme. :( I would take John up on his offer to loan you a tester that will show you which pairs are working and which are not. Dan From mike at Jentges.NET Fri Feb 15 01:41:46 2002 From: mike at Jentges.NET (MJ) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you have a volt/ohm meter and a patch cable long enough to plug in one end and reach the other, start checking continuity I guess. I bet one of the wires has a weak connection in the 'punch'. Speaking of which, your patch cables test good, right? -MJ On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Yaron wrote: > Hey all, > > Ok, so I got the 1000' of Cat5e, a bunch of RJ45 Cat5e-certified jacks, > faceplates and modules, etc. And I wired the crap out of the place. > > Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put in. I just put > in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B scheme), and THen > plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch on the other > end. > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine send > request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. > > I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried > several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all > transmit and not receive. > > Naturally I have no Cat5 testing equipment, but I opened up a few plugsto > make sure I _did_ in fact punch everything down correctly, and it looks > like I did. > > Anyone have any clues/suggestions? > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Feb 15 01:42:42 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <20020214222416.GB28188@wookimus.net> <000e01c1b5a9$39d27980$0696c7c7@victim> <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020215073259.GC2701@wookimus.net> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 12:47:22AM -0600, Daniel Churchill wrote: > On Thursday 14 February 2002 04:44 pm, M. Jentges wrote: > > Ok it's been a long couple days, but AFAIK can't you accomplish the > > same thing with VNC? choice of window managers is limited I think, > > but.... VNC has nothing to do with window managers. ;-) VNC is to X what Citrix MetaFrame is to Windows. The X11R6 protocol requires a complicated application layer and a server to display to. X11 on the Windows desktop has traditionally been owned by commercial implementations X servers. The people at AT&T Bell Laboratories felt that X was a bit fat for pushing down narrow network connections -- they were right -- and that there had to be a better way to display a remote desktop. And there's the key difference: remote v.s. local. With VNC, the X server is actually run on the remote host. VNC pushes screen captures (or small portions of those parts that change) to the client. The client pushes mouse coordinates, mouse events, and keyboard events back to the VNC server. It's the same concept that MetaFrame uses (on the surface, anyway). The nice thing about VNC is that it runs as a server on both Windows and UNIX'es. With Cygwin's binary package of the XFree86 server for Windows, you can use the power of your local workstation to run the display of the remote X11 application. This isn't overkill, just a different way of accessing the same apps. Personally, I would use Cygwin XFree86 over VNC any day. The performance is SO much better on a LAN. Over a WAN, I'd use VNC. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/e6d1589a/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 15 08:35:42 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <000e01c1b5a9$39d27980$0696c7c7@victim> <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <02021506443101.25392@edith> VNC on GNU/Linux will by default spawn a new X session for the login that ran vncserver (kinda like Citrix MetaFrame). A hack exists to make it so that session :0 gets shared: http://www.hexonet.de/software/x0rfbserver/ If working with a slow link to view try TightVNC. TightVNC has different settings for image quality and compression that I have found to help speed up drawing of the screen on a dial-up connection. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Friday 15 February 2002 00:47, Daniel Churchill wrote: > On Thursday 14 February 2002 04:44 pm, M. Jentges wrote: > > Ok it's been a long couple days, but AFAIK can't you accomplish the same > > thing with VNC? choice of window managers is limited I think, but.... > > Perhaps. I have used VNC for accessing Windows machines remotely across a > LAN. I'm not familiar with the specifics of how these programs all work, > but I believe that with VNC, the information is transmitted as purely > graphical, while with the local X server running on my Windows PC, all > that is transferred is the drawing instructions, which are much less > bandwidth intensive, and thus, perform better. Maybe I'm wrong about > this. If someone knows better, correct me. > > Also, having never used VNC with Linux, maybe someone on the list can tell > me - does the VNC Linux client take over the X desktop on the Linux > workstation when someone is using VNC? That is, can you watch someone > using the workstation remotely from the actual console (or vice versa)? > This is what the Windows version of VNC does, and I don't really want that > behavior for my particular situation. > > But, you are correct, that the net effect of what I have done is very > VNC-like. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 08:38:18 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux 7.2 In-Reply-To: <200202150104.g1F142S01882@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Chris Dresel wrote: > On Thursday 14 February 2002 16:10, you wrote: > > > > Your chosen "Subject:" header is incorrect. There is no such thing > > as "Linux 7.2". As much as I enjoy the recognition Red Hat has > > given to Linux, Red Hat IS NOT LINUX. Red Hat is a DISTRIBUTION of > > the Linux operating system: the kernel and the base software > > necessary to run and manage applications in the kernel. The correct > > subject line is: "Red Hat Linux 7.2". > > > > I see someone else got upset at that too... > Glad to see someone is as observant as me... > =) Agreed -- the expression "Linux 7.2" also rubs me the wrong way. However, the error is understandable, considering the strong marketing presence of Red Hat and the fact that many distros are currently selling a 7.x release. Joel From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 15 08:42:39 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG OT] pointers on hardware? In-Reply-To: <016901c1b5de$c99c10a0$7b181f18@destro> References: <016901c1b5de$c99c10a0$7b181f18@destro> Message-ID: <20020215133225.GA9953@iucha.net> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 09:08:19PM -0800, Joel Wickard wrote: > I have a toshiba satellite 2805- S503. > > Does anyone have any pointers on where to find out exactly what kind of > hardware and chipsets my laptop is running? I looked for "detailed specs" > on the website, but didn't find anything more detailed than how fast the > hard drive was. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > If anyone wants to flame me I'd love that too. Install Linux and run lspci -v. I have a 2805-401 and it works wonderfully (except the modem that I don't care about anyway). You might need to get the NVidia drivers for X but other than that, you should be ok. Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/88dea7a2/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Fri Feb 15 08:48:55 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help me understand this command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021508390300.01439@geezer> On Thursday 14 February 2002 18:52, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm trying to get xplanet set up to run as the background on my KDE > desktop. xplanet is really cool, BTW. (http://xplanet.sourceforge.net) > > The KDE Background configuration tool has the xplanet command set like > this: > > xplanet --geometry %xx%y --output %f.jpg && mv %f.jpg %f > > Can someone interpret that for me? Where are the %x, %y, and %f coming > from? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > I'm running xglobe (with markers) its not identical but close. When you open the setup for the Background Program, the window is labeled kcmshell. (Looks furiously but can't find man page or docs for kcmshell.) So my guess is that it has access to certain KDE environment settings. That makes the %x and %y easy, (the --geometry doesn't hurt ;-) they have to be the current resolution settings for the KDE desktop. (ie 1024x768) I'm guessing that %f is a tmp file name, possibly session specific, that KDE has for storing temporary root window images. Of course now I'm going to have to look this up and see what it is. 8^) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net Fri Feb 15 08:49:32 2002 From: klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net (Chris Dresel) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: scsi cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021420172100.05334@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> Micro Computer Center (Highway 7 and South 100, St Louis Park - If you in the TC area) has "braided" cables, if that's what your refering to. I'm not 100% sure about SCSI cables, but I know I just picked some IDE cables up like that for a new gaming system I'm building. Also, if you want, www.pcmods.com has rounded cables, basically just braided ones that have heat shrunk sheathing already on them. On Thursday 14 February 2002 18:41, you wrote: > Anyone know of a good place to get SCSI cables that have been "bundled" > to improve airflow and make case internals easier to get at, and > sometimes even recognizable behind all the mess? > I remember seeing an article on slashdot a while back about making your > own regular IDE cables into those (i even tried one, and it sorta worked, > but ended up being kinda short) but LVD makes the do it yourself method > MUCH harder. > Thanks, > > - Kremer > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Feb 15 08:56:47 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: References: <20020214112644.B17743@real-time.com> <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: <15469.5147.119441.361301@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "JS" == Jon Schewe writes: JS> I used to use taper as well and I recently ran into problems with taper and JS> long paths. I've started using Arkeia, http://www.arkeia.com, and have been JS> pretty happy with it. It's reasonably fast, it's free for Linux, and it JS> allows multiple backups on the same tape, unlike Amanda. The only thing I JS> might run into is that it doesn't seem to know how much is really on the tape JS> since I'm using hardware compression, so it might have issues when I try and JS> use all of the tape, but only time will tell on that one. I just looked at the Arkeia web page, and it looks like the license for the free version is quite restricted: "The Arkeia free version is a fully enabled copy of Arkeia for Linux for 1 server attached to a single-tape tape drive (SCSI) and 2 Type-2 client machines. It has NO time limit and can provide you with interactive and periodic backups. The license for the Arkeia Free Version is free for personal AND commercial use." Don't you have a tape changer, Jon? How did you work around this limitation? R From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Feb 15 09:15:09 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <02021421044600.25098@edith> References: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> <20020214180453.0fbb311f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <02021421044600.25098@edith> Message-ID: <15469.6197.30614.538993@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "KB" == Kelly Black writes: KB> Speaking of backups, has anybody tried Mondo Rescue? KB> http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/ I just looked at the website and read some docs, and Mondo Rescue seems tailored only to rescue type backups, not to periodic, scheduled backups of data. If you want to do daily data backups, seems not so good. Perhaps what one should do is a combination of monthly Mondo backups for system rescue, combined with daily backups of /home to save data? I'd still like something that would talk to my DAT changer.... r From jack at jacku.com Fri Feb 15 09:27:50 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG OT] pointers on laptop hardware? In-Reply-To: <016901c1b5de$c99c10a0$7b181f18@destro> References: <016901c1b5de$c99c10a0$7b181f18@destro> Message-ID: <02021508433901.01439@geezer> On Thursday 14 February 2002 23:08, Joel Wickard wrote: > I have a toshiba satellite 2805- S503. > > Does anyone have any pointers on where to find out exactly what kind of > hardware and chipsets my laptop is running? I looked for "detailed specs" > on the website, but didn't find anything more detailed than how fast the > hard drive was. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > If anyone wants to flame me I'd love that too. > > -Me > First hit off google search "linux on laptops" http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ Start here. If you don't find your system listed then search linux on Google Groups and see what you find. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From jmlohren at citilink.com Fri Feb 15 09:31:10 2002 From: jmlohren at citilink.com (Jason Lohrenz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question References: <02021500574401.21229@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <004a01c1b630$3a9e8fc0$0200a8c0@gomer> I ran into the same problem with patch pannels I got from Home Depot. Try switching your PC's down to 10MB and see if they can talk okay then. What I found was the wiring scheme used on the ports and punch downs was messed up and had to switch around a few wires on the patch pannel to get 100MB to work correctly. When they were building our house I came in when they had finished framing and ran 2 cat5e (one data one phone) to every room. Also ran RG-6 to each room. Got a nice enclosure from Home Depot and put that in the basement. Works pretty slick. JasonL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Churchill" To: Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question > On Thursday 14 February 2002 11:16 pm, Yaron wrote: > > > Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put in. I just put > > in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B scheme), and THen > > plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch on the other > > end. > > > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine send > > request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. > > > > I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried > > several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all > > transmit and not receive. > > > If machines on both ends can transmit and not receive, then you have a > confused wiring problem somewhere. Make sure that the white/colored side > of each pair is the same on both ends. If you have dual-labeled 568A/B > jacks, double and triple check that you looked at the right scheme. > They're not that different, and this has frequently been my problem when > I've screwed up the wiring scheme. :( I would take John up on his offer > to loan you a tester that will show you which pairs are working and which > are not. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Feb 15 09:31:49 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514F7C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> If you wired one end for 568A by accident, you can switch pairs 2 and 3 and that will solve your problem. I had to do that last night because I wired my jacks for 568B before I bought the patch panel (which is 568A). Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Churchill [mailto:churchid@visi.com] > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:58 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question > > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 11:16 pm, Yaron wrote: > > > Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put > in. I just put > > in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B > scheme), and THen > > plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch > on the other > > end. > > > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees > machine send > > request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. > > > > I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried > > several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all > > transmit and not receive. > > > If machines on both ends can transmit and not receive, then > you have a > confused wiring problem somewhere. Make sure that the > white/colored side > of each pair is the same on both ends. If you have > dual-labeled 568A/B > jacks, double and triple check that you looked at the right scheme. > They're not that different, and this has frequently been my > problem when > I've screwed up the wiring scheme. :( I would take John up > on his offer > to loan you a tester that will show you which pairs are > working and which > are not. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From list at slushpupie.com Fri Feb 15 09:36:25 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <02021506443101.25392@edith> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> <02021506443101.25392@edith> Message-ID: <20020215152042.B7DFA60319@friday.localdomain.fake> On Friday 15 February 2002 06:44 am, you wrote: > VNC on GNU/Linux will by default spawn a new X session for the login > that ran vncserver (kinda like Citrix MetaFrame). A hack exists to make > it so that session :0 gets shared: > http://www.hexonet.de/software/x0rfbserver/ There is a port of this that works natively with KDE, it works pretty slick. It will prompt you if you want to let the remote connection take control. If working with a slow link to view try TightVNC. TightVNC has > different settings for image quality and compression that I have found > to help speed up drawing of the screen on a dial-up connection. > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > > On Friday 15 February 2002 00:47, Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 04:44 pm, M. Jentges wrote: > > > Ok it's been a long couple days, but AFAIK can't you accomplish the > > > same thing with VNC? choice of window managers is limited I think, > > > but.... > > > > Perhaps. I have used VNC for accessing Windows machines remotely > > across a LAN. I'm not familiar with the specifics of how these > > programs all work, but I believe that with VNC, the information is > > transmitted as purely graphical, while with the local X server running > > on my Windows PC, all that is transferred is the drawing instructions, > > which are much less bandwidth intensive, and thus, perform better. > > Maybe I'm wrong about this. If someone knows better, correct me. > > > > Also, having never used VNC with Linux, maybe someone on the list can > > tell me - does the VNC Linux client take over the X desktop on the > > Linux workstation when someone is using VNC? That is, can you watch > > someone using the workstation remotely from the actual console (or > > vice versa)? This is what the Windows version of VNC does, and I don't > > really want that behavior for my particular situation. > > > > But, you are correct, that the net effect of what I have done is very > > VNC-like. > > > > Dan > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter. -- Mark Twain From natecars at real-time.com Fri Feb 15 09:51:08 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Yaron wrote: > Ok, so I got the 1000' of Cat5e, a bunch of RJ45 Cat5e-certified > jacks, faceplates and modules, etc. And I wired the crap out of the > place. > > Being a complete dork, I didn't test the first wire I put in. I just > put in about 12, punched everything down (using the 568B scheme), and > THen plugged a machine in one end and patched over to the switch on > the other end. > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine > send request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. > > I tested all the cables outside the walls and they're fine. I tried > several different machines and NICs, and it looks like they can all > transmit and not receive. > > Naturally I have no Cat5 testing equipment, but I opened up a few > plugsto make sure I _did_ in fact punch everything down correctly, and > it looks like I did. > > Anyone have any clues/suggestions? Invite someone with a Cat5e tester (anyone at Real Time, for example) over to test your cables for you. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 15 09:53:54 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [OT] Web site index In-Reply-To: <20020215152042.B7DFA60319@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <02021506443101.25392@edith> <20020215152042.B7DFA60319@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <02021509495500.25464@edith> Somebody was looking for a link parser (I think Eric Stanley). http://siag.nu/myhtml I came across this (not complete, but looks like a starting point). It is interactive command line, but I think you could hack it up and get it to dump to a file fairly easily. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 15 10:09:13 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Micro$oft Outlook Message-ID: <20020215155302.GB9953@iucha.net> At work I have been converted to Win2k and Lookout2K. I have set my mail format to plain text. However, when I reply to a message that I have received in plain text format, the message is not properly quoted ("> " is not added to the left margin). Does anybody know of any trick to make that appear? I hate to be forced to send blue HTML e-mail just for quoting properly the message I am answering to. Thanks, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/c1aad960/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Feb 15 10:11:21 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <15469.6197.30614.538993@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> <20020214180453.0fbb311f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <02021421044600.25098@edith> <15469.6197.30614.538993@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020215155330.GB8977@wookimus.net> Kelly Black writes: > Speaking of backups, has anybody tried Mondo Rescue? > http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/ Thanks for reminding me about mondo. I'll be backing up my system this weekend, if not tonight! On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 08:16:21AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I just looked at the website and read some docs, and Mondo Rescue > seems tailored only to rescue type backups, not to periodic, scheduled > backups of data. If you want to do daily data backups, seems not so > good. Define daily backups. If you mean incremental backups, you're probably correct. I'd have to look at mondo's code to find out, but it sounds like a reasonable assumption. Although, there is an exclude option to exclude directories. If you just wanted to do a daily backup of let's say /etc, /var/backup and /home, you could probably get away with it by making a nice long excludes list. > Perhaps what one should do is a combination of monthly Mondo backups > for system rescue, combined with daily backups of /home to save data? > I'd still like something that would talk to my DAT changer.... I believe mondo does go to tapes now. If you're using tapes, however, I'd probably just use Amanda. Yes, there are lots of complaints about it not being able to append-to-tape, but think of it as a simplification instead of a lack of feature. *grin* I've been using Amanda to do backups of *NIX and Windows machines for quite some time. It works quite well. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/29c1e04f/attachment.pgp From phil21 at five-elements.com Fri Feb 15 10:25:04 2002 From: phil21 at five-elements.com (Phil Doroff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Micro$oft Outlook In-Reply-To: <20020215155302.GB9953@iucha.net> Message-ID: Tools -> Options -> Preferences -> E-mail options Choose "Prefix each line of the orginal message" and choose > as your character to prefix with. Should more or less work okay. -Phil > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Florin Iucha > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:53 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Micro$oft Outlook > > > At work I have been converted to Win2k and Lookout2K. > > I have set my mail format to plain text. However, when I reply to a > message that I have received in plain text format, the message is not > properly quoted ("> " is not added to the left margin). > > Does anybody know of any trick to make that appear? > > I hate to be forced to send blue HTML e-mail just for quoting properly > the message I am answering to. > > Thanks, > florin > > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > From steveg at transition.com Fri Feb 15 10:25:48 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Micro$oft Outlook Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC159@postman.transition.com> Look under Tools, options, preferences, email options. There is an option to "prefix each line of original message". > -----Original Message----- > From: florin@iucha.net [mailto:florin@iucha.net] > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:53 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Micro$oft Outlook > > > At work I have been converted to Win2k and Lookout2K. > > I have set my mail format to plain text. However, when I reply to a > message that I have received in plain text format, the message is not > properly quoted ("> " is not added to the left margin). > > Does anybody know of any trick to make that appear? > > I hate to be forced to send blue HTML e-mail just for quoting properly > the message I am answering to. > > Thanks, > florin > > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Feb 15 10:26:28 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone got InstallFest photos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215101954.A15169@fireopal.org> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 09:14:24PM -0600, Jima wrote: > Okay, it's been nearly two weeks, and some of us are wondering if anyone > has InstallFest pictures. I know I saw a couple cameras there. Did they > all get stolen? ;) I've got about five - they just went from camera to PC in the last couple of days. I haven't gotten around to putting them up anywhere - someone want them to do that with? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From wlayer at attbroadband.com Fri Feb 15 10:27:09 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have to pay $100+ for it? I made the mistake of getting one of the cheapos that Menards sells, figuring it would last at least through the bag of cable ends. It didn't - I think I got half a dozen uses out of it before the tool became somehow damaged and ceased making proper crimps. I cannot determine the location of the damage in the tool, now it just seems to wreck ends.. how nice. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From sraun at fireopal.org Fri Feb 15 10:29:26 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Micro$oft Outlook In-Reply-To: <20020215155302.GB9953@iucha.net> References: <20020215155302.GB9953@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020215102424.B15169@fireopal.org> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 09:53:02AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > At work I have been converted to Win2k and Lookout2K. > > I have set my mail format to plain text. However, when I reply to a > message that I have received in plain text format, the message is not > properly quoted ("> " is not added to the left margin). > > Does anybody know of any trick to make that appear? > > I hate to be forced to send blue HTML e-mail just for quoting properly > the message I am answering to. I think you're stuck changing your global quoting style - it's under Tools | Options, then somewhere behind one of the Mail sections - there are at least three (!) of them! Don't have a working Lookout on the home WinPC, or I'd look it up for you - if you haven't found it by Monday, send me an e-mail at scott_raun@cnt.com and I'll send you the exact path. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From wlayer at attbroadband.com Fri Feb 15 10:41:01 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tiny linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215102433.70f608b6.wlayer@attbroadband.com> On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:45:24 -0600 (CST) Kaushik Sonduri Panthangi wrote: > I am looking for a Linux version that I can install in a laptop(intel P2 > 266MHz) which only has 80MB hard disk and runs only one application. > Any ideas > Thanks in advance. Please tell me how is it that a PII 266, which probably shipped with a 4-6GB drive, has only an 80MB drive installed? That's 386-era stuff... -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 15 10:46:33 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux advocacy article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021510310701.25486@edith> Who is this guy?... Looks like he is from MN, but I did not find much about him besides the blurb at the end of the article: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT2471386447.html Looks like an interesting proposal, but probably won't fly. I think I will write a few people and see if anything happens. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Fri Feb 15 11:01:20 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> References: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <200202151648.g1FGmob13773@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Friday 15 February 2002 10:21 am, Bill Layer wrote: > Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have to > pay $100+ for it? Bill if you simply need good tools to finish your installation, I will borrow you my good crimper and LAN cable tester. You could pick them up from me at work or home. Work is FOX29 in Minneapolis and home is Maple Grove. Interested...call me at 612-490-9780...today. I work in the evenings. From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 11:15:28 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <200202151539.g1FFdrS14339@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 Daniel Churchill wrote: > On Thursday 14 February 2002 04:44 pm, M. Jentges wrote: > > Ok it's been a long couple days, but AFAIK can't you accomplish the same > > thing with VNC? choice of window managers is limited I think, but.... > > Perhaps. I have used VNC for accessing Windows machines remotely across a > LAN. I'm not familiar with the specifics of how these programs all work, > but I believe that with VNC, the information is transmitted as purely > graphical, while with the local X server running on my Windows PC, all > that is transferred is the drawing instructions, which are much less > bandwidth intensive, and thus, perform better. Maybe I'm wrong about > this. If someone knows better, correct me. > Also, having never used VNC with Linux, maybe someone on the list can tell > me - does the VNC Linux client take over the X desktop on the Linux > workstation when someone is using VNC? That is, can you watch someone > using the workstation remotely from the actual console (or vice versa)? > This is what the Windows version of VNC does, and I don't really want that > behavior for my particular situation. The VNC server works somewhat differently under linux/unix than it does under windows. The windows VNC server (unless somehow coupled with Windows Terminal Services ...) is limited to working through the single-user GUI provided by windows, whereas a linux or unix machine could conceivably serve dozens of VNC sessions, potentially all belonging to different users, each having its own X-windows "desktop". The VNC sessions served by a linux or unix server do not have to be bound to the GUI (if any) running on that machine's console display. VNC does function by transferring (encoded) graphics bitmap data. However, X does not always use its network bandwidth really efficiently so, in some situations, it's conceivable that VNC might perform better. Joel From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Feb 15 11:20:51 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Bill Layer wrote: > Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have to > pay $100+ for it? I made the mistake of getting one of the cheapos that > Menards sells, figuring it would last at least through the bag of cable > ends. Cheap crimpers suck. I have an Ideal Telemaster, it'll do RJ45/RJ11. Home Depot's got it for $35. It's awesome. The Ideal Ratchet Telemaster is the best crimper on the planet IMHO. Microcenter has it, I think $50? This is the crimper I REALLY want, but Home Depot didn't have it and I really needed a crimper. -Brian From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 11:21:26 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: <200202151700.g1FH0LS15715@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 Bill Layer wrote: > Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have to > pay $100+ for it? I made the mistake of getting one of the cheapos that > Menards sells, figuring it would last at least through the bag of cable > ends. > > It didn't - I think I got half a dozen uses out of it before the tool > became somehow damaged and ceased making proper crimps. I cannot determine > the location of the damage in the tool, now it just seems to wreck ends.. > how nice. MilesTek (http://www.milestek.com/) is a comprehensive source for this type of stuff. Locally, maybe Micro Center (http://www.microcenter.com/) would have something. Joel From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Feb 15 11:34:58 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Yaron wrote: > Hey all, > > Link light comes on, 100M light comes on, DHCP server sees machine send > request, machine doesn't see DHCP server send reply. While I lack experience in this area (since I've always had a tester) I don't know what exactly happens when the receive pair drops. If you get a 100Mb link light, I asummed it had sent AND received a packet at 100Mb. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, I'd almost suspect software before I;d start blaming cable. A simple tester can be made by cutting a couple pieces of Cat5, both 1 ft long. Crmp an end on both, and strip a few inches of sheathing off. On one assembly, tie the pairs together. On the other end, use an ohmmeter to test accross the pairs. The neat thing about this design is you can also test crossover cables. Also note, if you've wired one end 568A and the other 568B you'll never detect that, but it will tell you opens and shorts and so forth. -Brian From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 11:55:29 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Joel T Schneider wrote: > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 Bill Layer wrote: > > Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have to > > pay $100+ for it? > > MilesTek (http://www.milestek.com/) is a comprehensive source for this > type of stuff. Forgot to mention that I own a $40 MilesTek "Universal Crimper" with RJ45 die. Works great! Joel From list at slushpupie.com Fri Feb 15 12:09:21 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux Message-ID: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> I saw the thread going on the Tiny Linux, running a P2 with 80Mb disk- well, I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a Compaq 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT or what yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when my class is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. Does anyone know if any distro's out there can support this? Or, if I have to hack my own, any hints? Jay From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 15 12:10:03 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Licensing In-Reply-To: <20020214234012.D31929@real-time.com> References: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net> <20020214234012.D31929@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020215120613.4d000bf8.fertch@mninter.net> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:40:17 -0600 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > I don't understand this. If you buy a licensed product, in essence > don't > > you now own that particular copy of it and it's license? > > as I understand it, no. > my understanding (and IANAL) is that software licences are covered by > contract law, not property law. you don't *own* the software, you own a > licence to use the software. this is how the software companies argue > that > you aren't allowed to take their software apart and find out how it > works... > it's not your property; it's their property. Right, I knew that a license is purchased and we own the media that the software came on (ie: disk, cd, tape, etc), along with the books. In other words, the physical parts of it. The software is owned by the manufacturer, it's their "intellect property" so to speak. But my argument still remains that if I decide to continue to use a known, good product well beyond the point of it not being supported, I still don't see that as constituting a license issue. If a software company were to pull all licenses for existing software that was released prior to their currently marketed software, for no other reason than to force companies to upgrade, I would see that as a bad marketing move. One would think that it would give people/companies deciding to either upgrade or buy the software from said company a second thought. Maybe it's just me, but I always viewed software licenses as being nothing more than an agreement that you won't: 1) Copy it for free/paid distribution without consent of software owners 2) Modify the code, unless it's allowed by the license for software user's own use. 3) Install it on more machines than product licensed for. That's kind of it in a nutshell. As to the licenses being pulled, I also thought that the license was pulled only when there was violations of the license. Maybe it's my naivity as to why I don't understand this, but whatever happened to common sense? Oh wait, there's lawyers. One doesn't need common sense with a lawyer. Hmm, maybe I need to read a few sotware licenses... Nah, too much legalize. Shawn From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 15 12:26:17 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215121114.0bf4e20b.fertch@mninter.net> On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:40:03 -0600 (CST) Nate Carlson wrote: > > Invite someone with a Cat5e tester (anyone at Real Time, for example) > over > to test your cables for you. :) Sure Nate, come on over. I'd be happy to have you test all the cables I just ran in my house. Being that I just finished my home office this week. ;) Shawn From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 15 12:26:59 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: References: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020215121335.1ba680fa.fertch@mninter.net> On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:12:52 -0600 (CST) Brian wrote: > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Bill Layer wrote: > > > Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have > to > > pay $100+ for it? I made the mistake of getting one of the cheapos > that > > Menards sells, figuring it would last at least through the bag of > cable > > ends. > > Cheap crimpers suck. > > I have an Ideal Telemaster, it'll do RJ45/RJ11. Home Depot's got it > for $35. It's awesome. > > The Ideal Ratchet Telemaster is the best crimper on the planet > IMHO. Microcenter has it, I think $50? This is the crimper I REALLY > want, but Home Depot didn't have it and I really needed a crimper. > I think I bought mine at Radio Shack. It's not the best, but it works fine. I've done probably about 100 cable ends, and it does both RJ11 and 45. I think $35 is about the right price also. Shawn From john at schererzoo.com Fri Feb 15 12:27:40 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 33MB/sec over ordinary ethernet... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013794614.4290.137.camel@elgato> Any of you ever see/play with this: http://heroines.sourceforge.net/firehose.php3 This is cool! From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 12:28:32 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> References: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: <20020215121721.A16187@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 12:01:23PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > I saw the thread going on the Tiny Linux, running a P2 with 80Mb disk- well, > I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a Compaq > 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT or what > yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when my class > is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. Does anyone know > if any distro's out there can support this? Or, if I have to hack my own, any > hints? Nope, Linux won't run on a 286 (because of the lack of floating point math on board IIRC), but you can take a look at ELKS (Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset) http://elks.sourceforge.net/. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From dsherman at real-time.com Fri Feb 15 12:29:16 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> References: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: <1013797287.7186.79.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Fri, 2002-02-15 at 12:01, Jay Kline wrote: > I saw the thread going on the Tiny Linux, running a P2 with 80Mb disk- well, > I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a Compaq > 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT or what > yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when my class > is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. Does anyone know > if any distro's out there can support this? Or, if I have to hack my own, any > hints? Sounds like you have an AT or maybe an (even older) XT. Linux was originally coded to take advantage of the 386's enhanced features. Since the AT was 286-based, I think you are going to be stuck, unless someone did a port to the older chip just for "fun". Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/5cc303c6/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Fri Feb 15 12:30:07 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Licensing In-Reply-To: <20020215120613.4d000bf8.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 12:06:13PM -0600 References: <02021408565000.02498@geezer> <20020214132757.1cba664f.fertch@mninter.net> <20020214234012.D31929@real-time.com> <20020215120613.4d000bf8.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020215122517.H8778@sherohman.org> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 12:06:13PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > If a software company were to pull all licenses for existing software that > was released prior to their currently marketed software, for no other > reason than to force companies to upgrade, I would see that as a bad > marketing move. One would think that it would give people/companies > deciding to either upgrade or buy the software from said company a second > thought. In the consumer market, sure. When you get into the higher-end stuff, though, that changes. I used to work for a (now dead) voicemail software company whose license terms basically said, "You must upgrade whenever we release a new version of our software." -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From dante at plethora.net Fri Feb 15 12:30:49 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Dan Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: ELKS: Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset. 16 bit Linux based off kernel 1.0.9 (last I looked). Dan On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > I saw the thread going on the Tiny Linux, running a P2 with 80Mb disk- well, > I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a Compaq > 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT or what > yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when my class > is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. Does anyone know > if any distro's out there can support this? Or, if I have to hack my own, any > hints? > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 15 12:43:18 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> References: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: <02021512300000.25537@edith> The Linux kernel won't work on less than a '386 for Intel Arch. The closest thing I have seen for an 8088-'286 would be the Elks distro (subset of Linux for 8088's and up): http://elks.sourceforge.net It does not have nearly the tools that most ports have, but could be an option for ya. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Friday 15 February 2002 12:01, Jay Kline wrote: > I saw the thread going on the Tiny Linux, running a P2 with 80Mb disk- > well, I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a > Compaq 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT > or what yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when > my class is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. Does > anyone know if any distro's out there can support this? Or, if I have to > hack my own, any hints? > > Jay > From barnabas at knicknack.net Fri Feb 15 12:44:08 2002 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [OT] Web site index In-Reply-To: <02021509495500.25464@edith>; from kelly-black@mediaone.net on Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 09:49:55AM -0600 References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <02021506443101.25392@edith> <20020215152042.B7DFA60319@friday.localdomain.fake> <02021509495500.25464@edith> Message-ID: <20020215123258.A27072@knicknack.net> Thanks, Kelly! I actually had found a perl module (HTML::Parser) that was quite easy to use. Eric On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 09:49:55AM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > Somebody was looking for a link parser (I think Eric Stanley). > > http://siag.nu/myhtml > > I came across this (not complete, but looks like a starting point). > It is interactive command line, but I think you could hack it up > and get it to dump to a file fairly easily. > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Feb 15 12:44:53 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a Compaq > 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT or what > yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when my class > is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. While the thread has been well answered, I just have to ask: why? I personally would be more inclined to mess around with minix on such a laptop. -Brian From natecars at real-time.com Fri Feb 15 13:15:15 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question In-Reply-To: <20020215121114.0bf4e20b.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Sure Nate, come on over. I'd be happy to have you test all the cables > I just ran in my house. Being that I just finished my home office > this week. ;) You wanna move closer to the cities first? :) (Or are you not in Forest Lake anymore?) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From list at slushpupie.com Fri Feb 15 13:32:41 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215192125.9B5DC9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> The main reason is Minix lack of networking support. One of the class projects will be to work on Minix's network support, but it is very limited. I know Linux, even in the early days, had a better networking model. That, and for the bragging rights of "I got Linux to run on a 286 with 640K of memory!" :-) Jay On Friday 15 February 2002 12:38 pm, you wrote: > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > > I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a > > Compaq 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its > > AT or what yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but > > when my class is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. > > While the thread has been well answered, I just have to ask: why? I > personally would be more inclined to mess around with minix on such a > laptop. > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net Fri Feb 15 13:33:13 2002 From: klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net (Chris Dresel) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: <20020215121335.1ba680fa.fertch@mninter.net> References: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <20020215121335.1ba680fa.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <02021513203201.05594@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> On Friday 15 February 2002 12:13, you wrote: > I think I bought mine at Radio Shack. It's not the best, but it works > fine. I've done probably about 100 cable ends, and it does both RJ11 and > 45. I think $35 is about the right price also. > > Shawn Wow, I got mine at Radio Shack too, and I've had them for about 4 years, I've used them over 2000 times atleast, because running ethernet is one of my favorite things to do, and it's what I do for a living. I've had other pairs that cost upwards of $90 but I just get upset when they come up missing. So since I use them so much I figured one day, it may be in my best interest to get a cheap pair if I'm gonna be loosing them often, and since I've gotten this pair, I haven't lost them yet. ------------ Chris Dresel klostrophobik@homelessIRC.net "Don't you know your gonna SHOCK THE MONKEY!?!?" -- Peter Gabriel From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Feb 15 16:40:24 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:12:52AM -0600 References: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020215145730.E32696@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:12:52AM -0600, Brian wrote: > Cheap crimpers suck. Amen, I was in a bind and tried the menards plastic one too, ouch. > > I have an Ideal Telemaster, it'll do RJ45/RJ11. Home Depot's got it > for $35. It's awesome. > > The Ideal Ratchet Telemaster is the best crimper on the planet > IMHO. Microcenter has it, I think $50? This is the crimper I REALLY > want, but Home Depot didn't have it and I really needed a crimper. > I've got the one from home depot as well, works very nicely and still works great after 2 years. > -Brian -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Feb 15 16:41:15 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 33MB/sec over ordinary ethernet... In-Reply-To: <1013794614.4290.137.camel@elgato>; from john@schererzoo.com on Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:36:53AM -0600 References: <1013794614.4290.137.camel@elgato> Message-ID: <20020215150228.F32696@techmonkeys.org> You hijacked a thread, please don't do this. When posting on a new subject use 'New' instead of 'Reply' =) On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:36:53AM -0600, John Scherer wrote: > Any of you ever see/play with this: > > http://heroines.sourceforge.net/firehose.php3 > > This is cool! > It looks cool, but it requires a special library, you're better off using ether bonding which is supported in the kernel. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 17:06:32 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring Message-ID: Hey, Thanks to all the suggestions, and especially the people offering to lend me a testing tool - I might take you up on that. But herre's what I tried, thanks to a suggestin from Nate. I took avery short length of Cat5e cable (like 2') and put a jack at both ends, thus simulating the wires in the wall. I know everything's punched down correctly, and I know the contacts are good because I stripped the ends off the copper before punching them down to make sure. I'm only using pins 1,2,3 and 6, because that's all ethernet needs, and those are going in a standard 568B pattern on both jacks (ie, a 1:1 connection between pins). When I connect a machine to the switch through this setup (using patch cables I have verified as working), I get a the LINK and ACTIVITY lights for that port blinking, but that's it. Computer doesn't see the network. Network doesn't see the computer. I don't know how a tester would help, since I can visually see the lines. I guess either my jacks are crap, or I'm wiring stuff wrong... anyone? Also thanks to Nate's suggestion, I put up pictures of one of them at http://www.yaron.org/pic/jack/ -Yaron -- From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 17:10:13 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: <20020215145730.E32696@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I've got the one from home depot as well, works very nicely and still works > great after 2 years. I got one of those too - glad to know I did at least ONE thing right (; -Yaron -- From DACross at nwc.edu Fri Feb 15 17:29:26 2002 From: DACross at nwc.edu (DACross@nwc.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Trouble with Dial-in server Message-ID: I want to get a simple dialin server running on my Linux box at work so that I can get Internet access from home. I've got the modem installed, configured and answering, but I'm having trouble getting any web traffic through. I tried using just the Dialup Networking on my Windows ME box at home to establish a connection with PPP, but ME kept saying that the computer I was dialing into was unable to accept dialup connections and then it disconnected. I changed that so I was using a SLIP connection from my ME to my Linux box and I was able to authenticate (through a shell) to my machine. I clicked continue to get past that and the connection shows a little data going across, but attempts to get web traffic going just spin their wheels. I do have AutoPPP running on my Linux box using mgetty-sendfax. Reading through the howto's on dialin is like wading through a swamp in snowshoes, but I did it to get this far. What am I missing here? ++++++++++++++++++++++ David Cross, KC0KII From peter-clark at tides.com Fri Feb 15 17:30:00 2002 From: peter-clark at tides.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Very Tiny Linux In-Reply-To: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> References: <20020215180124.ECF4F9060@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: <200202151831.g1FIVYl147652@pimout1-int.prodigy.net> On Friday 15 February 2002 12:01 pm, Jay Kline wrote: > I saw the thread going on the Tiny Linux, running a P2 with 80Mb disk- > well, I recently got a Laptop to help out in my OS class for school. Its a > Compaq 286LE. It has 640K memory, and 10Mb disk drive (not sure if its AT > or what yet). Currently it has Minix installed on it (for class) but when > my class is done, I want to see if I can get Linux to run on it. Does > anyone know if any distro's out there can support this? Or, if I have to > hack my own, any hints? You'll have a lot of hacking to do, since Linux requires a 386 at a bare minimum. Remember, Linus started Linux in part to take advantage of the extensions Intel added to the 386. Nevertheless, should you manage to port Linux to a 286, you would definitely get a mention on Slashdot, so if fame is what you're after, go for it. :) :Peter From DACross at nwc.edu Fri Feb 15 17:30:37 2002 From: DACross at nwc.edu (DACross@nwc.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Trouble with dialin server Message-ID: I want to get a simple dialin server running on my Linux box at work so that I can get Internet access from home. I've got the modem installed, configured and answering, but I'm having trouble getting any web traffic through. I tried using just the Dialup Networking on my Windows ME box at home to establish a connection with PPP, but ME kept saying that the computer I was dialing into was unable to accept dialup connections and then it disconnected. I changed that so I was using a SLIP connection from my ME to my Linux box and I was able to authenticate (through a shell) to my machine. I clicked continue to get past that and the connection shows a little data going across, but attempts to get web traffic going just spin their wheels. I do have AutoPPP running on my Linux box using mgetty-sendfax. Reading through the howto's on dialin is like wading through a swamp in snowshoes, but I did it to get this far. What am I missing here? ++++++++++++++++++++++ David Cross, KC0KII From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Fri Feb 15 17:31:21 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iptables start up Message-ID: <2540.204.220.56.2.1013803556.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> What is the difference between the firewall service and iptables in Linuxconf? (RedHat 7.1)I am trying to start iptables through Linuxconf, but nothing happens. Do I need to set run levels? -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From djb at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 17:32:31 2002 From: djb at tc.umn.edu (Dave Bianchi) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCSA meeting February 21 Message-ID: The Twin Cities System Administrators (TCSA) group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest to system and network administrators in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. The meetings are free and open to the public. Check out our web site at http://www.tcsa.org/ TCSA meetings are on the third Thursday of each month at 7:00 pm. Next Meeting: Topic: Logical Volume Manager (LVM) Speaker: Clay Fandre, Consultant Date/Time: February 21, 2002 7:00 pm Location: University Park Plaza Office Building (Onvoy) Synopsis: The Logical Volume Manager (LVM) is a subsystem for online disk storage management for Linux. Clay Fandre will talk about the Logical Volume Manager for Linux. This talk will provide an introduction to LVM, how to set up and use Linux LVM, and the future plans for LVM, including LVM2. About the Speaker: Clay Fandre is a Unix and Linux Systems Administrator and was a founder of the Twin Cities Linux Users Group. We will meet at University Park Plaza Office Building (Onvoy office), 2829 University Ave. SE, in a conference room on the first floor of the building. Tentative Meeting Schedule March 21, 2002 - SANs, Brocade April 18, 2002 Directions: Directions to University Park Plaza (Onvoy): The Onvoy office is at University Park Plaza Office Building, 2829 University Ave. SE. It is a white-concrete, 9-story, hexagonal building (previously occupied by Group Health). The windows are distinctive, shaped somewhat like TV screens. University Park Plaza is on the north side of University Ave. (across from the Octopus Car Wash), about 3 blocks east of the intersection of Washington Ave. and University Ave. or about 3 blocks west of KSTP-TV. - From the South (35W) Proceed north on 35W, exiting onto Interstate 94 East. Continue in the far left lane on Interstate 94 East to the Highway 280 exit. Remain on Highway 280 until University Ave. Turn left on University, proceed 7 blocks west to SE 29th Ave. The building is on your right. - From the North (35W) Proceed south on 35W, exiting onto Highway 280 South. Continue on Highway 280 until the University Ave. exit. Turn right on University. Continue 7 blocks west to SE 29th Ave. The building is on your right. - From the West (94/394) Proceed east on 94, cross the Mississippi river and continue in the far left lane on Interstate 94 East to the Highway 280 exit. Remain on Highway 280 until University Ave. Turn left on University, proceed 7 blocks west to SE 29th Ave. The building is on your right. - From the East (94) Proceed west on 94, continue in the far right lane to the Highway 280 exit. Remain on Highway 280 until University Ave. Turn left onto University, proceed 7 blocks to SE 29th St. The building is on your right. - Parking Free parking is available in the visitor lot off SE 29th Ave. and in front of the building along University Ave. - Web map is at: http://www.onvoy.com/about_offices_upp.html For more information on TCSA, check out our web site: http://www.tcsa.org/ To subscribe to the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS mailing lists, follow the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS link from: http://list.onvoy.com/ For any other information, please send email to: info@tcsa.org or contact: Dave Bianchi 651-260-1770 -- Dave Bianchi Collective Technologies djb@colltech.com A Pencom Company djb@tc.umn.edu http://www.colltech.com/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From dieman at ringworld.org Fri Feb 15 18:16:08 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Backup Programs References: <000f01c1b584$8c97be70$0200a8c0@gomer> <20020214180453.0fbb311f.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <02021421044600.25098@edith> <15469.6197.30614.538993@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <20020215155330.GB8977@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3C6D94A9.6010400@ringworld.org> Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > I believe mondo does go to tapes now. If you're using tapes, however, > I'd probably just use Amanda. Yes, there are lots of complaints about > it not being able to append-to-tape, but think of it as a simplification Just use all that new backup space as an excuse to buy 1/2 TB raid arrays and download more porn. :) -- Scott Dier From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 15 18:33:42 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Desktop in Windows - loving it! In-Reply-To: <20020215073259.GC2701@wookimus.net> References: <29625404.1004567943689.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> <20020214222416.GB28188@wookimus.net> <000e01c1b5a9$39d27980$0696c7c7@victim> <02021500472200.21229@nat4.dc.dan> <20020215073259.GC2701@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020215183004.1013a4db.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Chad C. Walstrom" wrote: > > [...] The people at AT&T Bell Laboratories felt that X was a bit fat > for pushing down narrow network connections -- they were right -- and > that there had to be a better way to display a remote desktop. And > there's the key difference: remote v.s. local. Actually, X is a pretty low-bandwidth protocol. The problem is that it requires a very low-latency link to be very useful. There's a program called mlview-dxpc that will cache information locally at the client and server so many of the latency problems go away, and it allows X to work pretty well even on modem links.. Thanks to aggressive message caching and many other optimizations, the overall compression ratio can go from 10:1 to 400:1. An average session, browsing the Internet, handling e-mails and coding in C++ results in a fairly satisfactory 60:1, with bitrates in the order of 2/4 KB per second. Most important, mlview-dxpc leverages the existing Xnest X agent to cut network round-trips to zero ...from http://www.medialogic.it/projects/mlview/ The program is pretty rough around the edges. It was a bit of a pain to set up the last time I checked, though I know many folks were interested in integrating it with ssh/sshd, so it's possible that it will become a transparent enhancement at some point. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ ...In 24-bit Color! / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/128343d1/attachment.pgp From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Fri Feb 15 19:37:01 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] weird stuff in Apache logs Message-ID: <20020216012425.GA437@lemongecko.org> I found some interesting things in my webserver logs. Has anybody here seen these? This is just a mutation of Nimda, right? I haven't seen these particular request strings before: 61.168.254.16 - - [09/Feb/2002:05:50:50 -0600] "HEAD /msadc/check.bat/.%u002e/.%u002e/.%u002e/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 0 "-" "-" 61.168.254.16 - - [09/Feb/2002:05:50:50 -0600] "HEAD /PBServer/.%u002e/.%u002e/.%u002e/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 0 "-" "-" 61.168.254.16 - - [09/Feb/2002:05:50:52 -0600] "HEAD /samples/check.bat/..%u005c../..%u005cwinnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 0 "-" "-" This is much more interesting. What the heck is "Microsoft URL Control"? I have a bunch more of these in my logs, grabbing different URLs off my website. 65.102.129.33 - - [03/Feb/2002:04:31:21 -0600] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 9236 "-" "Microsoft URL Control - 6.00.8169" Thanks, Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020215/7b34e163/attachment.pgp From churchid at visi.com Fri Feb 15 19:37:36 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021519351000.22321@nat4.dc.dan> On Friday 15 February 2002 04:24 pm, Yaron wrote: > Also thanks to Nate's suggestion, I put up pictures of one of them at > http://www.yaron.org/pic/jack/ I looked at your pictures. Are you using a 110 block punchdown tool? My guess, looking at them, is no. The wires need to be sunk all the way down in the block. Your left & right side pictures show wire less than half-way down into the slot in some cases. Even with them stripped bare, that isn't good enough. My advice - find someone with a 110 punchdown tool to borrow, or go buy one (I pretty sure MicroCenter has them, I know Graybar does, www.graybar.com, I don't know about Home Depot - if they have crimpers like has been mentioned on the list today, they might also have punchdown tools - a cheap one shouldn't run you more than $5 or $10). Otherwise, work a *lot* harder to get those wires all the way down into the block (I would be seriously surprised if you could do it with your bare hands). Dan From snowdogg at usinternet.com Fri Feb 15 20:42:01 2002 From: snowdogg at usinternet.com (Josh) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) References: <20020215102144.327b8cc0.wlayer@attbroadband.com> <200202151648.g1FGmob13773@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <002b01c1b692$bb601040$a94811d8@Dogg> Rodd, I live right by the fox29 studios. What do you do there? Everyone, this is my first post on the list. Too many gurus.......hehe Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodd Ahrenstorff" To: Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:47 AM Subject: Re: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) > On Friday 15 February 2002 10:21 am, Bill Layer wrote: > > Where is a good place to buy a *quality* RJ-45 crimper, and not have to > > pay $100+ for it? > > > Bill if you simply need good tools to finish your installation, I will borrow > you my good crimper and LAN cable tester. You could pick them up from me at > work or home. Work is FOX29 in Minneapolis and home is Maple Grove. > > Interested...call me at 612-490-9780...today. I work in the evenings. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 20:58:02 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring In-Reply-To: <02021519351000.22321@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Daniel Churchill wrote: > I looked at your pictures. Are you using a 110 block punchdown tool? My > guess, looking at them, is no. I did, actually, and I made sure the wires were down all the way. The thing is, when you strip them they seem to come back out easily, and I wasn't paying attention when I took the pictures. BTW, Home Depot deos have punchdown tools, but they only have one and it costs $60+. I figured I'd do fine with the cheapo plastic bit that came with the jacks. I did go through them all again to make sure they're down all the way. -Yaron -- From tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net Fri Feb 15 21:41:16 2002 From: tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net (B T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring References: Message-ID: <3C6DD32C.1C192661@mn.mediaone.net> Yaron, try n ot stripping them first, not sure if that's it but if they work themselves loose easily they're not seating well enough. From ben at nerp.net Fri Feb 15 22:13:02 2002 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Backup Programs In-Reply-To: <3C6D94A9.6010400@ringworld.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- porn aside, the append to tape feature is something I'm glad it doesn't have. amanda is designed to be a robust backup system, and the ammount of tape space is to be used is assigned automatically by the amanda server. the reason for this is to reduce the risk of a tape failure taking out backup data. on an append-to-tape system, if a single tape fails, you can loose days, or weeks of data. I know this because we had a mac server with retrospect, and the tape was corrupt, and then the disk fs crashed and we lost a month of data. append to tape is bad way of doing backups, anyone who wants to setup an append to tape system should think about the cost in man-hours to re-create data when the un-thinkable happens. - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Scott M. Dier wrote: > Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > > I believe mondo does go to tapes now. If you're using tapes, however, > > I'd probably just use Amanda. Yes, there are lots of complaints about > > it not being able to append-to-tape, but think of it as a simplification > > Just use all that new backup space as an excuse to buy 1/2 TB raid > arrays and download more porn. :) > -- > Scott Dier > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBPG3ZHctpDhsSpvgtAQH2vAP/Rna80E14Ar3w2OtPfNZDPGEKVLOE2x6c biPLq0V5F+FGm9W2WBA0KvzVfxclDoD4NhfrUV1y3DFdXJ0TuYSJ+yQP3Ldb0av2 ffD1EKmqB4vh9xmYGboAn1NCrggs0vNvkBp4j7jV4Q9D7bvD0EKXXE1ztbdxdewI RVSru3W1IZU= =Z0gt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Feb 15 23:58:03 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C6DD32C.1C192661@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, B T wrote: > Yaron, try n ot stripping them first, not sure if that's it but if they > work themselves loose easily they're not seating well enough. I didn't strip any of them - I only stripped the test ones to make absolutely sure there was, in fact, contact. -Yaron -- From fertch at mninter.net Fri Feb 15 23:58:52 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config In-Reply-To: <20020214180312.D32696@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> <20020214153555.72d5bc68.fertch@mninter.net> <20020214180312.D32696@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020215234901.790c7c90.fertch@mninter.net> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:03:12 -0600 "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > I've also got an intellimouse, it works great in Red Hat as follows: > > gpm -t imps2 -m /dev/mouse > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Mouse0" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "off" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > > i leave gpm running, it works fine in X, /dev/mouse is a symlink to > /dev/psaux. > > with the above settings the scroll wheel also works. Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and uninstalled the package. Shawn > From evisuale at mn.mediaone.net Sat Feb 16 01:53:06 2002 From: evisuale at mn.mediaone.net (Erick Stohr) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] worm still out there..amazing Message-ID: <3C6C17D6.A075AA83@mn.mediaone.net> Just got home and had left my linux box up for a few hrs, here is a http request for my non public tomcat server: Parse error, missing : in ccept: */* Full GET /default.ida?NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801% u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u 00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0 Content-type: text/xmlHOST:www.worm.com Accept: */* Amazing that this thing is still around, I belive this was the Code Red from this summer. Erick From florin at iucha.net Sat Feb 16 08:45:05 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Trouble with Dial-in server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020216144320.GA2124@iucha.net> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 06:29:00PM -0600, DACross@nwc.edu wrote: > > I want to get a simple dialin server running on my Linux box at work so > that I can get Internet access from home. I've got the modem installed, > configured and answering, but I'm having trouble getting any web traffic > through. > > I tried using just the Dialup Networking on my Windows ME box at home to > establish a connection with PPP, but ME kept saying that the computer I was > dialing into was unable to accept dialup connections and then it > disconnected. I changed that so I was using a SLIP connection from my ME to > my Linux box and I was able to authenticate (through a shell) to my > machine. I clicked continue to get past that and the connection shows a > little data going across, but attempts to get web traffic going just spin > their wheels. > > I do have AutoPPP running on my Linux box using mgetty-sendfax. > > Reading through the howto's on dialin is like wading through a swamp in > snowshoes, but I did it to get this far. What am I missing here? Is your Linux box at work routing packets between interfaces? florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020216/d5e26d39/attachment.pgp From j.r.saari at att.net Sat Feb 16 16:05:41 2002 From: j.r.saari at att.net (j.r.saari@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? Message-ID: <20011101022348.IBU5495.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hallelujah! I'm a recent convert. While I don't have hard numbers to give you, I'm sure you could find a case study in existence. IBM should be able to provide the sales-pitch for you. If they do, keep in mind they like to sell expensive solutions on the easy-pay plan (hardware systems, proprietary software, etc.,). Find their customer list and research them for the real scoop. Working to support an investment house, I can tell you that Microsoft has cost the company far more that the price of its' licenses, especially when it comes to lost business when systems crash. I hear the call. There is more of a learning curve with Linux (obviously). That is both a help and a hinderance. The transition, while challenging, is fun. I hope that someday the company will make the change, and I'm counting on IBM to make the pitch. (FYI - The company is enamored with IBM.) Let's see... the only question left is: do non-Microsoft developers and administrators get paid more? I think they do. Any thoughts? > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Although Linux > as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the computers, and > support and maintenance, he said." > > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to let > the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? > > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a > distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then > Win2k. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Sat Feb 16 17:08:02 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] List problems References: <51705.198.74.20.77.1013465353.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <021f01c1b73d$793837a0$1e02a8c0@zippy> I am not whining about the list, I am actually quite please with how it works. At the risk of getting massively flamed for not knowing why this won't work; this looks like a problem I see in real time systems from time to time. If you have a large ongoing task and a simple infrequent task you can speed up the little task lots and still get good overall throughput. Observation 1) I have picked up that the TCLUG list is a very light load for the host system. Observation 2) The injection task is already slated to take a very long time so a few days added to the overall task time may be acceptable. Conjectural question) In practical terms, is it possible to gate off the kernel injection task using cron from time to time, say every hour until the TCLUG message queue is empty? Mark Browne From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Sat Feb 16 18:05:01 2002 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter Message-ID: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Just thought I'd let the list know that Microcenter (off 100 in St Louis Park) has Railroad Tycoon II, Heretic II and Lords of Myth and Magic III (not sure about that last title, but hopefully it will mean something to some of you!) for Linux at $5 each! They also have D-link PCMCIA wireless networking cards including PCI adaptor for $50 after rebate, but as that bit isn't particularly Linux-related this paragraph is hereby marked OT! Cheers, Paul From chewie at wookimus.net Sat Feb 16 18:37:00 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter In-Reply-To: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020217002124.GC15795@wookimus.net> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 03:57:44PM -0800, Paul Harris wrote: > Just thought I'd let the list know that Microcenter (off 100 > in St Louis Park) has Railroad Tycoon II, Heretic II and > Lords of Myth and Magic III (not sure about that last title, > but hopefully it will mean something to some of you!) for > Linux at $5 each! Very sweet. I'm heading there now. ;-) > They also have D-link PCMCIA wireless networking cards > including PCI adaptor for $50 after rebate, but as that bit > isn't particularly Linux-related this paragraph is hereby > marked OT! -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020216/3c3a720e/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Feb 16 18:37:39 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Yaron wrote: > BTW, Home Depot deos have punchdown tools, but they only have one and it > costs $60+. I figured I'd do fine with the cheapo plastic bit that came > with the jacks. I did go through them all again to make sure they're down > all the way. I am actually impressed by those little plastic tools that come with the jacks. They aren't the best, but they are able to punch the cables VERY tightly. Much like the crimpers though, the more you spend the more you brag about it :-) If anyone's interested head over to pccables.com and pick up the network toolkit.. it's $110 and comes with the Ratchet telemaster, a nice cable tester, and a 110/66 punchdown tool. Also, be sure to pick up truckloads of RJ45 clips at 8 cents/clip :-) -Brian From houle at citilink.com Sat Feb 16 20:25:21 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter(Off Topic) In-Reply-To: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: At the risk of starting a big hulabaloo Microcenter will be presenting "Video Editing" at the March 12th TCPC General Meeting. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Paul Harris > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 5:58 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter > > > Just thought I'd let the list know that Microcenter (off 100 > in St Louis Park) has Railroad Tycoon II, Heretic II and >> > They also have D-link PCMCIA wireless networking cards > including PCI adaptor for $50 after rebate, but as that bit > isn't particularly Linux-related this paragraph is hereby > marked OT! From klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net Sat Feb 16 21:31:03 2002 From: klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net (Chris Dresel) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter In-Reply-To: <02021618415300.09304@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> References: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <20020217002124.GC15795@wookimus.net> <02021618415300.09304@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> Message-ID: <02021621231700.09669@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> On Saturday 16 February 2002 18:41, you wrote: > > Very sweet. I'm heading there now. ;-) > > Me too, hope to see ya there... > > ------------ > Chris Dresel > klostrophobik@homelessIRC.net Not only did I pick up 4 50 disk CD-R spindles for $10 a piece, but I got Quake 3 Arena for linux for only $10 too. Just letting any other 1st person shoot-em-up fans know where it's at. ------------ Chris Dresel klostrophobik@homelessIRC.net From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Feb 16 22:17:43 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C6DD32C.1C192661@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, B T wrote: > Yaron, try n ot stripping them first, not sure if that's it but if they > work themselves loose easily they're not seating well enough. Yaron replied to this already but it deserves restating. Stripping the Cat5 before punching/crimping is an absolute no-no. The clips/jacks are designed with the intention of piercing insulation and using it to hold the cable tight. Yes Yaron, I realize this doesn't apply to you in your case, but as general info I want to make that clear to anyone wondering :-). -Brian From klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net Sat Feb 16 22:19:01 2002 From: klostrophobik at homelessIRC.net (Chris Dresel) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter In-Reply-To: <20020217002124.GC15795@wookimus.net> References: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <20020217002124.GC15795@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <02021618415300.09304@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> > Very sweet. I'm heading there now. ;-) Me too, hope to see ya there... ------------ Chris Dresel klostrophobik@homelessIRC.net From j at 4dvfx.com Sun Feb 17 02:20:02 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter References: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <20020217002124.GC15795@wookimus.net> <02021618415300.09304@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> <02021621231700.09669@klostrophobik.homelessIRC.net> Message-ID: <000d01c1b78a$3b3a7060$6401a8c0@win2k001> > but I got Quake 3 Arena for linux for only $10 too. > Just letting any other 1st person shoot-em-up fans know where it's at. I work for Best Buy, and one day I found 3 of these at the Woodbury Best Buy. $10 a peice retail. $5.72 a peice with my discount. Makes up for the $50 I paid for it when I bought it new for Windo$e. Jeff From j at 4dvfx.com Sun Feb 17 02:20:54 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbie help prt.2 References: <000701c1b5cb$fa6312f0$6401a8c0@win2k001> <02021421104801.25098@edith> Message-ID: <000801c1b78a$8edde080$6401a8c0@win2k001> Just an FYI, I used SGI's VWE ISO and seem to have gotten the VR3 running. I haven't tried any animation software yet, but Tribes 2 is running great, so I'm guessing that the card is all working properly now. Thanks for the sugesstions. Jeff > Not sure, but did you ensure that the directory VWE exists under /mnt? > > Also as to the first question of how to make loopback devices see: > man losetup > > I am no expert on how to use this, but did find it usefull when messing > around with loopback filesystems (nifty way to get many files copied over to > your Bochs file filesystem). > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > > On Thursday 14 February 2002 20:53, Jeff Schmidt wrote: > > also, if I reboot using kernel 2.4.2-2, and I try: > > > > # mount -o loop VWE3.1.iso /mnt/VWE > > > > I get: > > > > mount point /mnt/VWE does not exist > > > > any Ideas? > > > > Jeff > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 17 08:04:00 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux vs. Windows on laptops Message-ID: Probably a dumb question but wondering if the operating time running on battery is any longer if I am using Linux vs. Windows. I realize it would depend on the applications being run but to assume essentially equal. Just trying to understand if Linux is more efficient as does not demand as many resources. Terry Houle From dsherman at real-time.com Sun Feb 17 08:20:06 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux vs. Windows on laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013955489.22638.4.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Sun, 2002-02-17 at 07:43, Terry Houle wrote: > Probably a dumb question but wondering if the operating time running on > battery is any longer if I am using Linux vs. Windows. I realize it would > depend on the applications being run but to assume essentially equal. Just > trying to understand if Linux is more efficient as does not demand as many > resources. In my experience, it seems to be a bit shorted in Linuz than Windows. My guess is that Linux never really lets the hard drive stop spinning, and so it is constantly drawing more power than Windows, which will allow the disk to spin down if I set it to do so in the power management settings. Now, there may well be the same type of capability in Linux. I just have never really bothered to check into it. Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020217/e0a23b49/attachment.pgp From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Sun Feb 17 09:09:01 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux vs. Windows on laptops References: Message-ID: <002f01c1b76e$5f042fc0$6600a8c0@destro> > Probably a dumb question but wondering if the operating time running on > battery is any longer if I am using Linux vs. Windows. I realize it would > depend on the applications being run but to assume essentially equal. Just > trying to understand if Linux is more efficient as does not demand as many > resources. I run a toshiba satellite 2805-2503. In an out-of-the-box redhat 7.2 install, my battery life is probably about 3/4 of what it would be on windows. I'm told I can get hard disk spindown functionality if I use the hdparm. (sorry if I got the name wrong.) I haven't done anything about it becuase 95% of the time I run my laptop plugged into the wall with the battery out of it. From florin at iucha.net Sun Feb 17 09:57:15 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux vs. Windows on laptops In-Reply-To: <002f01c1b76e$5f042fc0$6600a8c0@destro> References: <002f01c1b76e$5f042fc0$6600a8c0@destro> Message-ID: <20020217155249.GA454@iucha.net> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 08:48:39PM -0800, Joel Wickard wrote: > > > > Probably a dumb question but wondering if the operating time running on > > battery is any longer if I am using Linux vs. Windows. I realize it would > > depend on the applications being run but to assume essentially equal. > Just > > trying to understand if Linux is more efficient as does not demand as many > > resources. > > I run a toshiba satellite 2805-2503. In an out-of-the-box redhat 7.2 > install, my battery life is probably about 3/4 of what it would be on > windows. I'm told I can get hard disk spindown functionality if I use the > hdparm. (sorry if I got the name wrong.) I haven't done anything about it > becuase 95% of the time I run my laptop plugged into the wall with the > battery out of it. I have a S401 and I get more battery by using one of the latest Alan Cox trees. I am currently running 2.4.18-pre9-ac3 on it. Beware: ac4 has some reiserfs issues. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020217/45202aa1/attachment.pgp From dante at plethora.net Sun Feb 17 10:46:14 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux vs. Windows on laptops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Terry Houle wrote: > Probably a dumb question but wondering if the operating time running on > battery is any longer if I am using Linux vs. Windows. I realize it would > depend on the applications being run but to assume essentially equal. Just > trying to understand if Linux is more efficient as does not demand as many > resources. > It depends on how you approach it. If you are serious about setting it up you can run longer with Linux easily, I have for some time on a couple of laptops. Most of-the-shelf distro's aren't optimized for laptops, so power consumption will be bad. Midori, on the other hand, should come leaned down appropriately by default. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From wlayer at attbroadband.com Sun Feb 17 11:36:07 2002 From: wlayer at attbroadband.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:02 2005 Subject: RJ-45 crimpers (was Re: [TCLUG] Home Wiring Question) In-Reply-To: References: <20020215145730.E32696@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020217112530.126506bd.wlayer@attbroadband.com> On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:46:42 -0600 (CST) Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > I've got the one from home depot as well, works very nicely and still works> > great after 2 years. > You guys are the dope. Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'm going for the ratcheting crimpmaster, I just like saying the name of the thing. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-afghanistan.only.a.ruse- -.bomb.enron.now-. From fertch at mninter.net Sun Feb 17 12:03:42 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting help and iptables Message-ID: <3BE0CDD4.9D2E0156@mninter.net> > > > The module(s?) you want are ip_tables and iptable_filter. They are > > both located in /lib/modules/2.4.5/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter. Make > > sure they are loaded. > > Okay, here's my rc.iptables file. I noticed that I'm not loading the > iptable_filter, but I also get the message that the nat table isn't found. Same > thing? BTW, I took this script out of last month's LJ. > I modified my original script below: > #!/bin/sh > PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin > export PATH > IPT=/usr/sbin/iptables > > echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > insmod ip_tables > insmod ip_nat_ftp > insmod ip_conntrack_ftp > > for i in filter nat mangle > do > $IPT -t $i -F > $IPT -t $i -X > done > > $IPT -t filter -N tcprules > $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ppp+ -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT > > $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ! ppp+ -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT > $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ppp+ -m state --state NEW,INVALID -j DROP > $IPT -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp+ -s 10.0.0.0/24 -d 0/0 -j MASQUERADE > $IPT -t filter -A INPUT -j tcprules > $IPT -t filter -A FORWARD -j tcprules > $IPT -t filter -P INPUT DROP > $IPT -t filter -P FORWARD DROP > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > To the new script: #!/bin/sh PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin export PATH IPT=/usr/sbin/iptables echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward insmod ip_tables # insmod ip_nat_ftp # insmod ip_nat # insmod ip_conntrack_ftp insmod iptable_filter # insmod iptable_nat # insmod iptable_mangle # for i in filter nat mangle for i in filter do $IPT -t $i -F $IPT -t $i -X done $IPT -t filter -N tcprules $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ppp+ -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ! ppp+ -m state --state NEW -j ACCEPT $IPT -t filter -A tcprules -i ppp+ -m state --state NEW,INVALID -j DROP # $IPT -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp+ -s 10.0.0.0/24 -d 0/0 -j MASQUERADE $IPT -t filter -A INPUT -j tcprules $IPT -t filter -A FORWARD -j tcprules $IPT -t filter -P INPUT DROP $IPT -t filter -P FORWARD DROP echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward What I get now on loading of the modules is: Using /lib/modules/2.4.5/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/ip_tables.o.gz Using /lib/modules/2.4.5/kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter/iptable_filter.o.gz iptables: No chain/target/match by that name iptables: No chain/target/match by that name iptables: No chain/target/match by that name If I'm doing NAT, don't I need the nat module loaded? As well as the table? If I uncomment the nat lines, I get the errors: no module by the name iptable_nat can't initialize iptables table 'nat' table does not exist Sheesh, while iptables may be more customizable than ipcahins, this is getting a bit confusing. In a way, I'm tempted to go back to the 2.2.x kernel so I can take advantage of ipchains being that it's a lot easier than iptables..... From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 17 14:49:16 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux vs. Windows on laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202171437.08594@ellegon.com> On Sunday 17 February 2002 07:43 am, Terry Houle wrote: > Probably a dumb question but wondering if the operating time running on > battery is any longer if I am using Linux vs. Windows. I realize it would > depend on the applications being run but to assume essentially equal. Just > trying to understand if Linux is more efficient as does not demand as many > resources. > > > > Terry Houle > From jack at jacku.com Sun Feb 17 16:23:46 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: <01103121331400.00848@geezer> On Tuesday 30 October 2001 22:21, you wrote: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Although > Linux as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the > computers, and support and maintenance, he said." > > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to > let the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and > comment? > > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a > distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC > then Win2k. In a large organization I can see this. Chances are your staffing numbers are based on the total number of boxes that you have to keep running. It really doesn't matter what they are running. After you get to a certain number of techs and admins to maintain the operation, that's your cost. Everything else is at the margins. Now if you take that analysis and extend it down to the smaller company that runs a small number of servers with one admin/tech and/or some outsourced help then the actual cost and some of the scripting/automation tools that are available with Linux will bring the TOC down. The thing that I see more and more is that people who use Windows and Exchange and IIS, etc. aren't real happy right now. The are ripe for alternatives, but, and its a big but, they have a user community that expects certain types of services and right now most of the community's options are not as full featured. That said one too many "explosions" of Windows will make them look elsewhere. Microsoft has become very good at "blaming" its users for being lax with their administration. The problem is Microsoft doesn't make it easy to apply patches to the system. I don't know any admins, especially those in smaller operations, that want to deal with rebooting a server for every patch. If you install a "fresh copy" of NT 4 with SP6 and the option pack to get IIS4 and all the current fixes it takes 5 or 6 reboots of the system. Applying most of the security patches for IIS require a reboot to activate. Unfortunatly these things are hard to quantify so the droids that right the TOC reports don't include it. The assumption is that all systems need to be patched so that cost will be the same for each system. Well maybe its not the same but since we can't calculate that number we'll call it the same and then all the other numbers work out how we want them to/ Linux costs just as much as Windows to maintain, maybe more. The managers who buy our reports will feel vindicated that they made the "right" decision to stick with the known (Windows), instead of giving into the whim of the technical staff (Linux). I've rambled enough and don't think I really addressed your question. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From kremer at ringworld.org Sun Feb 17 20:31:02 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and 120GB drives In-Reply-To: <960066CD690D114E830C60B43C421297760655@fd-ex-01.freedesk.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't worry about it... I've plugged in just under 1 TB RAIDS with no problem, and as far as the OS is concerned, that's just one big fat hard drive. As long as the hardware supports it, the software shouldn't be a problem in this case. (i didn't notice any replies to this, so forgive me if i'm being repetative) - Kremer On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Cargo, David wrote: *snip* > Anybody here taken a look at this and know if popular Linux distros > will work on it? I thought I had read something about Linux not > supporting drives bigger than 100GB yet. *snip* From chewie at wookimus.net Sun Feb 17 21:04:12 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scripting help and iptables In-Reply-To: <3BE0CDD4.9D2E0156@mninter.net> References: <3BE0CDD4.9D2E0156@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020218025421.GA1466@wookimus.net> On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 10:21:40PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > Sheesh, while iptables may be more customizable than ipcahins, this is > getting a bit confusing. In a way, I'm tempted to go back to the > 2.2.x kernel so I can take advantage of ipchains being that it's a lot > easier than iptables..... Why not just load the IPChains module instead? -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020217/3741f88e/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 17 21:21:05 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Message-ID: The TC/PC Audio Sig. this February 19th meeting (Tues) will be devoted to learning how to use a Linux box to play music. Jim Kaufman from the Twin Cities Linux Users group has agreed to host this month. Please join us for what should be an interesting evening. It will be in Room 124 on the lower level at 2850 Metro Drive in Bloomington. As usual it will begin at 7 PM. Meetings are free and open to the public so please bring a friend. More information as to location can be found on the TC/PC web site at: http://www.tcpc.com Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group 952-883-0471 http://www.tcpc.com From johndmiller at mn.mediaone.net Sun Feb 17 21:38:02 2002 From: johndmiller at mn.mediaone.net (John Miller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 Message-ID: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I have compiled and installed avifile-0.6 but when I compile programs that need it, they complain that they can't find it. I have to manually change the PATH to include the location of the file but programs still complain about not finding. What do I need to do to make this file know to the world. John Miller From blutgens at sistina.com Sun Feb 17 22:12:02 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 In-Reply-To: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020218040041.GC1736@sistina.com> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 09:33:56AM -0600, John Miller wrote: >I have compiled and installed avifile-0.6 but when I compile programs that >need it, they complain that they can't find it. I have to manually change >the PATH to include the location of the file but programs still complain >about not finding. chances are it installed to a place not listed in /etc/ld.so.conf. Is it .so files it's looking for? .h files? what are the errors? It's pretty tough to help without those. Making a guess, you probably built it and installed it to /usr/local prefix. If you're trying to compile stuff that wants to link against the shared object files ( libavifile.so or some such ) figure out where that file is, and make sure the diretory it's in is listed in /etc/ld.so.conf and run "ldconfig" as root. Then try to compile the app again. If this don't help send us the error messages. > >What do I need to do to make this file know to the world. > >John Miller -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020217/47e77185/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Sun Feb 17 22:28:02 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 In-Reply-To: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020218041302.GA875@iucha.net> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 09:33:56AM -0600, John Miller wrote: > I have compiled and installed avifile-0.6 but when I compile programs that > need it, they complain that they can't find it. I have to manually change > the PATH to include the location of the file but programs still complain > about not finding. > > What do I need to do to make this file know to the world. Maybe add -I/usr/local/include to the CFLAGS and -L/usr/local/lib to LDFLAGS? florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020217/9b0fb231/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Sun Feb 17 22:28:38 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:05:06 -0600 "Terry Houle" wrote: > The TC/PC Audio Sig. this February 19th meeting (Tues) will be devoted > to > learning how to use a Linux box to play music. Jim Kaufman from the > Twin > Cities Linux Users group has agreed to host this month. Please join us > for > what should be an interesting evening. > > It will be in Room 124 on the lower level at 2850 Metro Drive in > Bloomington. As usual it will begin at 7 PM. > Meetings are free and open to the public so please bring a friend. > > More information as to location can be found on the TC/PC web site at: > http://www.tcpc.com Terry, Out of curiosity, how in depth are you/Jim going to get into this? I'm just wondering if it's going to get into depth of how to set up your sound drivers, supported components, etc... Also, any name to the building? Landmarks? Oh, you may also want to post this to the TCLUG-Announce list as, I believe that is where these types of messages are supposed to go. =) Shawn From blutgens at sistina.com Sun Feb 17 23:01:02 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 In-Reply-To: <20020218041302.GA875@iucha.net> References: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020218041302.GA875@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020218045946.GD1736@sistina.com> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 10:13:02PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: >> What do I need to do to make this file know to the world. > >Maybe add -I/usr/local/include to the CFLAGS and -L/usr/local/lib to >LDFLAGS? While correct, this is little more than a "band-aid" a temporary solution. The best course of action is to inclue the paths in /etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig. This way it won't be an issue if a month down the road you elect to link another application against the shared objects. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020217/6b29f636/attachment.pgp From estabroo at talkware.net Mon Feb 18 00:25:03 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 References: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020218041302.GA875@iucha.net> <20020218045946.GD1736@sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C709ACF.5060205@talkware.net> Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 10:13:02PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > >>>What do I need to do to make this file know to the world. >>> >>Maybe add -I/usr/local/include to the CFLAGS and -L/usr/local/lib to >>LDFLAGS? >> > > While correct, this is little more than a "band-aid" a temporary solution. > The best course of action is to inclue the paths in /etc/ld.so.conf and run > ldconfig. This way it won't be an issue if a month down the road you elect > to link another application against the shared objects. I don't think that is completely right. The ld.so.conf is for run time location of shared libraries not for compile/link time location of libraries. So you should add them to the ld.so.conf and run ldconfig so that the system can find the libraries but you'll still need to have the -I and -L options for compiling. Eric From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 18 06:34:14 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and 120GB drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020218122849.A2DD760304@friday.localdomain.fake> You are correct. If you follow any of the XFS archive stuff, they say the addressing limitation in Linux is only (!!!) 2^64 TB or something. For todays technology, you shouldnt have to worry about it. On Sunday 17 February 2002 08:21 pm, you wrote: > I wouldn't worry about it... > I've plugged in just under 1 TB RAIDS with no problem, and as far as the > OS is concerned, that's just one big fat hard drive. > As long as the hardware supports it, the software shouldn't be a problem > in this case. > (i didn't notice any replies to this, so forgive me if i'm being > repetative) > > - Kremer > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Cargo, David wrote: > *snip* > > > Anybody here taken a look at this and know if popular Linux distros > > will work on it? I thought I had read something about Linux not > > supporting drives bigger than 100GB yet. > > *snip* > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- This life is yours. Some of it was given to you; the rest, you made yourself. From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Mon Feb 18 08:30:36 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Message-ID: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> $ tar jxvf lab_3a.tar.bz2 tar: invalid option -- j Try `tar --help' for more information. Arrgh! Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling bzipped tarballs? And whose not-very-bright-at-all idea was it to *change* that to `y'? My Debian unstable system has "j tar", the math department has "y tar". It drives me nuts! Didn't they realize that "tar zxvf" is deeply embedded into the subconscious of millions of geeks like myself? It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary formats. It doesn't seem like it would be hard to do. Why hasn't anybody done that yet? Dan who is better at complaining than coding :( -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/234673f3/attachment.pgp From nate at techie.com Mon Feb 18 08:45:19 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and 120GB drives In-Reply-To: <20020218122849.A2DD760304@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020218122849.A2DD760304@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <20020218143928.GA21237@candle.dhs.org> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:28:48AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > You are correct. If you follow any of the XFS archive stuff, they say the > addressing limitation in Linux is only (!!!) 2^64 TB or something. For > todays technology, you shouldnt have to worry about it. Er, that doesn't sound quite right. Linux has a block device addressing limit of 2 TB because it uses 32-bit (probably signed) addresses. There isn't anything the file systems can do to get around this. XFS supports files as large as 2^63 and file systems much larger than that. Nate From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 18 08:47:25 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter In-Reply-To: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net>; from PaulHarris@Bigfoot.com on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 03:57:44PM -0800 References: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020218084229.B4555@sherohman.org> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 03:57:44PM -0800, Paul Harris wrote: > They also have D-link PCMCIA wireless networking cards > including PCI adaptor for $50 after rebate, but as that bit > isn't particularly Linux-related this paragraph is hereby > marked OT! That depends... How well do those D-Link cards work under Linux? -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 18 09:01:05 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options In-Reply-To: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org>; from drake+tclug@lemongecko.org on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600 References: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020218085044.C4555@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling bzipped > tarballs? And whose not-very-bright-at-all idea was it to *change* that > to `y'? My Debian unstable system has "j tar", the math department has > "y tar". It drives me nuts! You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > formats. For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z = gzip, not bzip2. > It doesn't seem like it would be hard to do. Why hasn't anybody > done that yet? a) Tradition b) Backwards-compatibility c) Symmetry d) All of the above -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Mon Feb 18 09:06:33 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter References: <20020216155745.22266.c000-h017.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <20020218084229.B4555@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <006701c1b837$8d7bafd0$6600a8c0@destro> I'm running the D-link pcmcia wireless network card under redhat... works fine. Dlink has linux drivers for the pci port card on it's website. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Sherohman" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux games at Microcenter > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 03:57:44PM -0800, Paul Harris wrote: > > They also have D-link PCMCIA wireless networking cards > > including PCI adaptor for $50 after rebate, but as that bit > > isn't particularly Linux-related this paragraph is hereby > > marked OT! > > That depends... How well do those D-Link cards work under Linux? > > -- > When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists > have already won. - reverius > > Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nate at techie.com Mon Feb 18 09:20:43 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options In-Reply-To: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> References: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020218150553.GB21237@candle.dhs.org> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling bzipped > tarballs? And whose not-very-bright-at-all idea was it to *change* that > to `y'? My Debian unstable system has "j tar", the math department has > "y tar". It drives me nuts! You could always use --bzip2 instead. > Didn't they realize that "tar zxvf" is deeply embedded into the > subconscious of millions of geeks like myself? That's always been `tar xzvf` to me. Command first, options second. i.e. x is the command (extract). > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > formats. It doesn't seem like it would be hard to do. Why hasn't anybody > done that yet? How do you determine which way to compress an archive when you're creating the archive? KISS! I'm glad UNIX utilities don't bend for the lazy, stupid, and stubborn users. RTFM! Nate who just had to add some flames to the rant. From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 09:52:08 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 In-Reply-To: <3C709ACF.5060205@talkware.net> References: <200202180334.g1I3YPb23901@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020218041302.GA875@iucha.net> <20020218045946.GD1736@sistina.com> <3C709ACF.5060205@talkware.net> Message-ID: <20020218154726.GB24620@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 12:10:23AM -0600, Eric Estabrooks wrote: > >I don't think that is completely right. The ld.so.conf is for run time >location of shared libraries not for compile/link time location of >libraries. So you should add them to the ld.so.conf and run ldconfig so >that the system can find the libraries but you'll still need to have the > -I and -L options for compiling. As treebeard would say: "Hroom, hmmmm I was too hasty!" You're right of course, I was thinking of the LD_PRELOAD_PATH kludge. My bad. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/7478949d/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 10:09:33 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options In-Reply-To: <20020218150553.GB21237@candle.dhs.org> References: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> <20020218150553.GB21237@candle.dhs.org> Message-ID: <20020218155818.GC24620@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:05:53AM -0600, Nate Straz wrote: >On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: >> Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling bzipped >> tarballs? And whose not-very-bright-at-all idea was it to *change* that >> to `y'? My Debian unstable system has "j tar", the math department has >> "y tar". It drives me nuts! > Write a wrapper script that runs "file", checks tar version and acts accordingly. Personally I try to make sure my machines are all fairly standard across the board that way. It's not just admins who use my machines and users tend to bitch about that stuff. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/b7d9eb2d/attachment.pgp From John.Miller at rbcdain.com Mon Feb 18 10:11:44 2002 From: John.Miller at rbcdain.com (Miller, John) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 Message-ID: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A377@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Thank you for all the responses. I have not had a change to try them yet. I did add the entry to ld.so.conf but have not run ldconfig. The location of the file is in /usr/local.... This seems to possible be a bad place to put it because it is not part of my PATH. Would it be advisable to move it or add /usr/local... to the path. If later is better, where would I make the entry so that it gets load every time I boot. (I know where to add it for individual users but not everyone.) Thanks John Miller Information Services - Capital Markets Software Developer Phone: 612-547-7573 Fax: 612-547-7580 Mail Stop: T23 MailTo:john.miller@rbcdain.com -----Original Message----- From: Ben Lutgens [mailto:blutgens@sistina.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:47 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 12:10:23AM -0600, Eric Estabrooks wrote: > >I don't think that is completely right. The ld.so.conf is for run time >location of shared libraries not for compile/link time location of >libraries. So you should add them to the ld.so.conf and run ldconfig so >that the system can find the libraries but you'll still need to have the > -I and -L options for compiling. As treebeard would say: "Hroom, hmmmm I was too hasty!" You're right of course, I was thinking of the LD_PRELOAD_PATH kludge. My bad. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 10:28:34 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] avifile-.0.6 In-Reply-To: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A377@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A377@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Message-ID: <20020218161634.GA25569@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 10:01:11AM -0600, Miller, John wrote: >Thank you for all the responses. I have not had a change to try them >yet. I did add the entry to ld.so.conf but have not run ldconfig. The >location of the file is in /usr/local.... This seems to possible be a >bad place to put it because it is not part of my PATH. Would it be >advisable to move it or add /usr/local... to the path. If later is >better, where would I make the entry so that it gets load every time I >boot. (I know where to add it for individual users but not everyone.) as for compiling please see Florin's earlier post as my first one was wrong. With respect to the biaries in /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/sbin if you don't add those two dirs to your $PATH you'll need to specify the explicit path or relative path on the command line to run them. the ld.so.conf thing I mentioned is only needed if you've linked against something in those directories ( /usr/local/lib etc.) and try to run it later on and get a "Error loading libllama.so: No such file or directory" type error. If you get this, and the lib in question is in the aforementioned dir tree, you'll want to make sure it in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH by adding it to /etc/ld.so.conf and running ldconfig. Sorry for the confusion. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/49750f9d/attachment.pgp From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Mon Feb 18 11:20:49 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 10:22:34PM -0600 References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 10:22:34PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:05:06 -0600 > "Terry Houle" wrote: > > > The TC/PC Audio Sig. this February 19th meeting (Tues) will be devoted > > to > > learning how to use a Linux box to play music. Jim Kaufman from the > > Twin > > Cities Linux Users group has agreed to host this month. Please join us > > for > > what should be an interesting evening. > > > > It will be in Room 124 on the lower level at 2850 Metro Drive in > > Bloomington. As usual it will begin at 7 PM. > > Meetings are free and open to the public so please bring a friend. > > > > More information as to location can be found on the TC/PC web site at: > > http://www.tcpc.com > > > Terry, > Out of curiosity, how in depth are you/Jim going to get into this? I'm > just wondering if it's going to get into depth of how to set up your sound > drivers, supported components, etc... > Also, any name to the building? Landmarks? Oh, you may also want to > post this to the TCLUG-Announce list as, I believe that is where these > types of messages are supposed to go. =) > > Shawn It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. Jim -- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 11:37:18 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest of the time? :-) -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/12b7a261/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Mon Feb 18 11:45:52 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history Message-ID: <20011031221142.P20186@real-time.com> if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html fascinating stuff. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From jspinti at dartdist.com Mon Feb 18 12:23:05 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history References: <20011031221142.P20186@real-time.com> Message-ID: <034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 18 13:27:02 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options In-Reply-To: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> References: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020218191616.GA12967@wookimus.net> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs? There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/519284d1/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 18 13:44:03 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: <034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> References: <20011031221142.P20186@real-time.com> <034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020218192704.8F3D49052@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Mon Feb 18 13:44:45 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options In-Reply-To: <20020218085044.C4555@sherohman.org> References: <20020218141758.GA4902@lemongecko.org> <20020218085044.C4555@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020218193309.GA5604@lemongecko.org> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. > > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z = gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. ...darn. :) Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/b8b58cea/attachment.pgp From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Mon Feb 18 13:50:03 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600 References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. > > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) > > -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. > > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. -- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/68c122cc/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 14:16:31 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/c95d1ed1/attachment.pgp From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Feb 18 14:47:11 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: <20020218192704.8F3D49052@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> References: <20011031221142.P20186@real-time.com> <034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> <20020218192704.8F3D49052@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Message-ID: Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From churchid at visi.com Mon Feb 18 15:00:03 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan From foeclan at visi.com Mon Feb 18 15:04:57 2002 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com From dsherman at real-time.com Mon Feb 18 15:33:06 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014067774.3519.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/c4b969e0/attachment.pgp From jspinti at dartdist.com Mon Feb 18 15:51:02 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> Message-ID: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) From kelly-black at mediaone.net Mon Feb 18 15:55:11 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02021815431400.09161@edith> I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 16:09:37 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/5ae0ab87/attachment.pgp From robertl at ccbr.umn.edu Mon Feb 18 16:41:02 2002 From: robertl at ccbr.umn.edu (Robert Leduc) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 18 16:58:12 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/044fb680/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 16:59:20 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020218224923.GB1325@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. holy shit. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/56a223da/attachment.pgp From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Feb 18 17:05:30 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Message-ID: <20011031222140.A18307@fireopal.org> OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 17:14:04 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202182259.g1IMxQP28565@wbyfw3.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- --__--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From gmcdavid at winternet.com Mon Feb 18 17:30:06 2002 From: gmcdavid at winternet.com (Glenn McDavid) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: Message-ID: After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Feb 18 17:32:03 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] xf86config In-Reply-To: <20020215234901.790c7c90.fertch@mninter.net>; from fertch@mninter.net on Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600 References: <20020214125834.262538cf.fertch@mninter.net> <3C6C136C.1080302@innominatus.com> <20020214153555.72d5bc68.fertch@mninter.net> <20020214180312.D32696@techmonkeys.org> <20020215234901.790c7c90.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020218172514.C5596@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From rahrenstorff at yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 17:32:36 2002 From: rahrenstorff at yahoo.com (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> References: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202182328.g1INSbS01910@sprite.real-time.com> On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rahrenstorff at yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 17:47:03 2002 From: rahrenstorff at yahoo.com (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> References: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202182330.g1INUqb11903@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 18:03:03 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202182348.g1INmwI06052@wbyfw1.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 18 18:04:16 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> References: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202190007.g1J07Jm04045@yafa.redconcepts.net> Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 18:22:32 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most people" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/19df3fd5/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 18:23:16 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <200202182328.g1INSbS01910@sprite.real-time.com> References: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> <200202182328.g1INSbS01910@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020219001225.GB15144@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/20ac20cd/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 18:24:02 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <200202190007.g1J07Jm04045@yafa.redconcepts.net> References: <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> <200202190007.g1J07Jm04045@yafa.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20020219001413.GC15144@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/9353e949/attachment.pgp From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Feb 18 18:24:58 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 18:38:02 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190022.g1J0Mfn02121@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Feb 18 18:38:46 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Glenn McDavid writes: > After reading: > > > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. > > I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. > > Then I saw the msg was from > > > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net > > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. Yep. It was very convenient, except for my count of types of computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same computer. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the "scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market". I did some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in highschool, too. A third-generation replacement for the 1620. (I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that "first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401 were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were based on integrated circuit chips. Microprocessors weren't viewed as a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number, people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 18 18:39:33 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? > > Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them > discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time > then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be > totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) I don't think anyone is being forced to try it. People aren't going to go if they aren't interested, are they? Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink? Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!" Why did you decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk? You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you show them. Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no telling what could happen ;-) > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any computer with any OS, for that matter? Take their cellphone away! Send them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn too complex? There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives, learn how to use Linux. However, a *ton* of the people out there could quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them, and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome applet to do it for them). I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and installing systems. There's research out there that says 90% of people leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life depended on it. Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install something in Windows? Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A waist is a terrible thing / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ to mind. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/f1b6b293/attachment.pgp From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Feb 18 18:40:31 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work In-Reply-To: <20011031222140.A18307@fireopal.org> References: <20011031222140.A18307@fireopal.org> Message-ID: Scott Raun writes: > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > access POP3? Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From houle at citilink.com Mon Feb 18 18:41:24 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> Message-ID: Well > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop for the presentation. It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux. I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that. The only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it. So that will probably start the flames. BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in the future. I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it out. terry houle -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > > From rahrenstorff at yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 18:42:15 2002 From: rahrenstorff at yahoo.com (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <200202182328.g1INSbS01910@sprite.real-time.com> References: <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> <200202182328.g1INSbS01910@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202190035.g1J0Zhb04823@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list? Has this changed? I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 18 18:55:16 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020218184458.0472c6d5.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange concatenation you're coming up with? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a Mexican standoff. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Only we ain't got no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Mexicans. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/cf09d519/attachment.pgp From churchid at visi.com Mon Feb 18 18:56:08 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] In-Reply-To: References: <20011031222140.A18307@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <02021818502600.03891@nat4.dc.dan> On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > > access POP3? > > Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with > the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate > that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a > line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into > an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is > it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list archives). I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the time... Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll have to let us know details again. Dan From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 19:12:04 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190057.g1J0vqI09917@wbyfw1.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Samir M. Nassar" Organization: RedConcepts.NET To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo= ple" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZgpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAj+LAKCGhgHxk9XlfNl+zJ5ccXXLLSDHDACfR18j 5oouxAaob/FpKWJTOAyGbtk= =4Ww9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean thi= s=20 >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? = My=20 >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows= at=20 >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your=20 >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZhpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAh/5AJ9xq0Jw94xyyIv8hofv2Sx4/Puw3gCaAugv zeLz3Jbwu3NUSTLys7MDF78= =wxVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.= =20 >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20 --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZjVCpAw0ZoN3FkRAkrRAJ41l8dhiWtldV8V0QvNHYVdiRKqwwCfd9w/ 0OziczcwwfkVt2m1HYBMl0I= =K4BQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X-- --__--__-- Message: 5 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 18 19:12:59 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600 References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020218190606.I4555@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib > sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome > applet to do it for them). I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 19:46:02 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190131.g1J1V4n04266@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 19:29 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 3. Re: Making POP3 Work (David Dyer-Bennet) 4. RE: How to play music on Linux box! (Terry Houle) 5. OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 6. Re: IBM history (Mike Hicks) 7. Re: Making POP3 Work [OT] (Daniel Churchill) 8. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:23:07 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Glenn McDavid writes: > After reading: > > > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. > > I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. > > Then I saw the msg was from > > > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net > > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. Yep. It was very convenient, except for my count of types of computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same computer. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the "scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market". I did some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in highschool, too. A third-generation replacement for the 1620. (I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that "first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401 were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were based on integrated circuit chips. Microprocessors weren't viewed as a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number, people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:25 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? > > Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them > discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time > then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be > totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) I don't think anyone is being forced to try it. People aren't going to go if they aren't interested, are they? Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink? Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!" Why did you decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk? You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you show them. Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no telling what could happen ;-) > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any computer with any OS, for that matter? Take their cellphone away! Send them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn too complex? There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives, learn how to use Linux. However, a *ton* of the people out there could quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them, and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome applet to do it for them). I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and installing systems. There's research out there that says 90% of people leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life depended on it. Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install something in Windows? Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A waist is a terrible thing / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ to mind. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cZs805OjzVUnj0URAlJyAKDxV4qfSAkIzfBPK06Z7ulZgduugwCfei1b kOPOdea8WoAB4+8nRjtUg3w= =oUVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns-- --__--__-- Message: 3 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Scott Raun writes: > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > access POP3? Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Terry Houle" To: Subject: RE: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:47 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Well > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop for the presentation. It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux. I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that. The only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it. So that will probably start the flames. BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in the future. I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it out. terry houle -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > > --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list? Has this changed? I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:44:58 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange concatenation you're coming up with? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a Mexican standoff. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Only we ain't got no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Mexicans. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8caAO05OjzVUnj0URAqDhAJ41WpG8TSbSPlaI1thvikYaZcll1wCg62iE VnHmzri3POfjDHvIViB/CJY= =XlhH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c-- --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:50:26 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > > access POP3? > > Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with > the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate > that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a > line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into > an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is > it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list archives). I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the time... Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll have to let us know details again. Dan --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:01:58 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "Samir M. Nassar" Organization: RedConcepts.NET To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo= ple" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZgpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAj+LAKCGhgHxk9XlfNl+zJ5ccXXLLSDHDACfR18j 5oouxAaob/FpKWJTOAyGbtk= =4Ww9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean thi= s=20 >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? = My=20 >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows= at=20 >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your=20 >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZhpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAh/5AJ9xq0Jw94xyyIv8hofv2Sx4/Puw3gCaAugv zeLz3Jbwu3NUSTLys7MDF78= =wxVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.= =20 >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20 --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZjVCpAw0ZoN3FkRAkrRAJ41l8dhiWtldV8V0QvNHYVdiRKqwwCfd9w/ 0OziczcwwfkVt2m1HYBMl0I= =K4BQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 20:21:03 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190206.g1J26gP06218@wbyfw3.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:04 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherohman) 2. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:06:06 -0600 From: Dave Sherohman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib > sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome > applet to do it for them). I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:34:40 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 19:29 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 3. Re: Making POP3 Work (David Dyer-Bennet) 4. RE: How to play music on Linux box! (Terry Houle) 5. OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 6. Re: IBM history (Mike Hicks) 7. Re: Making POP3 Work [OT] (Daniel Churchill) 8. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:23:07 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Glenn McDavid writes: > After reading: > > > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. > > I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. > > Then I saw the msg was from > > > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net > > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. Yep. It was very convenient, except for my count of types of computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same computer. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the "scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market". I did some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in highschool, too. A third-generation replacement for the 1620. (I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that "first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401 were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were based on integrated circuit chips. Microprocessors weren't viewed as a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number, people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:25 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? > > Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them > discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time > then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be > totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) I don't think anyone is being forced to try it. People aren't going to go if they aren't interested, are they? Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink? Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!" Why did you decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk? You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you show them. Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no telling what could happen ;-) > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any computer with any OS, for that matter? Take their cellphone away! Send them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn too complex? There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives, learn how to use Linux. However, a *ton* of the people out there could quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them, and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome applet to do it for them). I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and installing systems. There's research out there that says 90% of people leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life depended on it. Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install something in Windows? Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A waist is a terrible thing / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ to mind. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cZs805OjzVUnj0URAlJyAKDxV4qfSAkIzfBPK06Z7ulZgduugwCfei1b kOPOdea8WoAB4+8nRjtUg3w= =oUVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Scott Raun writes: > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > access POP3? Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 4 From: "Terry Houle" To: Subject: RE: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:47 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Well > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop for the presentation. It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux. I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that. The only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it. So that will probably start the flames. BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in the future. I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it out. terry houle -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > > -- __--__-- Message: 5 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list? Has this changed? I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:44:58 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange concatenation you're coming up with? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a Mexican standoff. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Only we ain't got no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Mexicans. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8caAO05OjzVUnj0URAqDhAJ41WpG8TSbSPlaI1thvikYaZcll1wCg62iE VnHmzri3POfjDHvIViB/CJY= =XlhH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:50:26 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > > access POP3? > > Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with > the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate > that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a > line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into > an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is > it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list archives). I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the time... Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll have to let us know details again. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:01:58 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "Samir M. Nassar" Organization: RedConcepts.NET To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo= ple" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZgpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAj+LAKCGhgHxk9XlfNl+zJ5ccXXLLSDHDACfR18j 5oouxAaob/FpKWJTOAyGbtk= =4Ww9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean thi= s=20 >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? = My=20 >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows= at=20 >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your=20 >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZhpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAh/5AJ9xq0Jw94xyyIv8hofv2Sx4/Puw3gCaAugv zeLz3Jbwu3NUSTLys7MDF78= =wxVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.= =20 >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20 --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZjVCpAw0ZoN3FkRAkrRAJ41l8dhiWtldV8V0QvNHYVdiRKqwwCfd9w/ 0OziczcwwfkVt2m1HYBMl0I= =K4BQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 20:23:24 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020219021327.GA1276@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. Your mail wasn't a flame. So credit yourself back one. Use it on the guy who's auto-responder keeps sending mails to the list or the person who's ISP sends you back a mail saying your message has the word "sh*t" in it. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/e41a2382/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 20:24:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218190606.I4555@sherohman.org> References: <20020217222234.75dae24a.fertch@mninter.net> <20020218111315.A29449@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218172812.GB26504@sistina.com> <20020218134131.A30474@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <040901c1b8c4$7644b680$47646496@dart> <20020218220526.GA1325@sistina.com> <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020218190606.I4555@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020219021423.GB1276@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 07:06:06PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >> and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib >> sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome >> applet to do it for them). > >I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would >kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have >disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... I used to have a shell script to do that. Since i've started using galeon it's not an issue. God I hated netscape 4.7x -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/241eb65b/attachment.pgp From shorejsi at skypoint.com Mon Feb 18 20:25:57 2002 From: shorejsi at skypoint.com (Steve Horejsi) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history References: Message-ID: <3C71B8C2.6080700@skypoint.com> OK, can't resist the urge to swap old computer stories any longer. I used one of the same 1620 machines that Dave referred to. The 1620 could add in hardware but not multiply; that was in software. Depending on the language (no resident OS on these things...), this could very well be a lookup table in memory. An errant program could easily overwrite this table, temporarily altering the local space-time continuum. 6 X 9 = 42 was well within the realm of possibility on these occasions. Also worked on the System/36. Each machine had two processors, of differing architecture and instruction sets. The CSP (Control Store Processor) did most of the I/O and low-level stuff. The MSP (Main Store Processor) ran the System/3 instruction set. The IBM 5100 came with BASIC and APL built in. During development it came to pass that there was not enough resource to write an APL interpreter for the machine. The underlying CPU was also System/3 architecture and there was existing IBM/360 emulation code for the System/3 as well as APL/360. So the 5100 ran APL/360 on top of a S/360 Emulator all on top of the 16 bit CPU. Performance in APL mode was less than mind-bending. My first 'PC' was a wire-wrapped 8080A (2MHz!) based machine of my own design. (I still have it in a box in the basement.) It had a whopping 4K of RAM (the premium 650ns stuff) and unlike the Altair/IMSAI kits of the day, it had seven-segment LEDs and a Hex keypad for I/O rather than the usual discrete LEDs and bit switches. I know it sounds weird but I don't recall ever running out of memory; keying in code in hex made you appreciate efficient design I guess... -=[ Steve ]=- David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. > From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 20:27:38 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders Message-ID: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> Hey all, if you're subscribed to a mailing address and have an ISP or a corporate mail account that does the "vacation" auto-responder please head on over to the mailing list subscription page in question and set yourself as "no mail" for mail man lists or "unsubscribe" yourself. If the sysadmin who setup the auto-responder doesn't understand that people may subscribe thier addresses to mailing lists or doesn't know how to setup an auto-responder so that it doesn't respond to mailing lists or postmaster mails have him/her send me an email and I'd be happy to help them out. Thanks. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/e1d9af4d/attachment.pgp From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 20:55:04 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1967 - 1 msg (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190239.g1J2din06176@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:38 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:10:38 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:04 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherohman) 2. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:06:06 -0600 From: Dave Sherohman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib > sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome > applet to do it for them). I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:34:40 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 19:29 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 3. Re: Making POP3 Work (David Dyer-Bennet) 4. RE: How to play music on Linux box! (Terry Houle) 5. OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 6. Re: IBM history (Mike Hicks) 7. Re: Making POP3 Work [OT] (Daniel Churchill) 8. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:23:07 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Glenn McDavid writes: > After reading: > > > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. > > I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. > > Then I saw the msg was from > > > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net > > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. Yep. It was very convenient, except for my count of types of computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same computer. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the "scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market". I did some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in highschool, too. A third-generation replacement for the 1620. (I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that "first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401 were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were based on integrated circuit chips. Microprocessors weren't viewed as a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number, people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:25 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? > > Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them > discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time > then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be > totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) I don't think anyone is being forced to try it. People aren't going to go if they aren't interested, are they? Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink? Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!" Why did you decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk? You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you show them. Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no telling what could happen ;-) > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any computer with any OS, for that matter? Take their cellphone away! Send them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn too complex? There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives, learn how to use Linux. However, a *ton* of the people out there could quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them, and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome applet to do it for them). I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and installing systems. There's research out there that says 90% of people leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life depended on it. Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install something in Windows? Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A waist is a terrible thing / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ to mind. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cZs805OjzVUnj0URAlJyAKDxV4qfSAkIzfBPK06Z7ulZgduugwCfei1b kOPOdea8WoAB4+8nRjtUg3w= =oUVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Scott Raun writes: > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > access POP3? Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 4 From: "Terry Houle" To: Subject: RE: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:47 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Well > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop for the presentation. It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux. I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that. The only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it. So that will probably start the flames. BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in the future. I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it out. terry houle -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > > -- __--__-- Message: 5 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list? Has this changed? I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:44:58 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange concatenation you're coming up with? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a Mexican standoff. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Only we ain't got no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Mexicans. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8caAO05OjzVUnj0URAqDhAJ41WpG8TSbSPlaI1thvikYaZcll1wCg62iE VnHmzri3POfjDHvIViB/CJY= =XlhH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:50:26 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > > access POP3? > > Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with > the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate > that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a > line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into > an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is > it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list archives). I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the time... Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll have to let us know details again. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:01:58 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "Samir M. Nassar" Organization: RedConcepts.NET To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo= ple" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZgpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAj+LAKCGhgHxk9XlfNl+zJ5ccXXLLSDHDACfR18j 5oouxAaob/FpKWJTOAyGbtk= =4Ww9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean thi= s=20 >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? = My=20 >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows= at=20 >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your=20 >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZhpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAh/5AJ9xq0Jw94xyyIv8hofv2Sx4/Puw3gCaAugv zeLz3Jbwu3NUSTLys7MDF78= =wxVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.= =20 >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20 --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZjVCpAw0ZoN3FkRAkrRAJ41l8dhiWtldV8V0QvNHYVdiRKqwwCfd9w/ 0OziczcwwfkVt2m1HYBMl0I= =K4BQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. 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Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Feb 18 20:58:22 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) In-Reply-To: <200202190206.g1J26gP06218@wbyfw3.us.fortis.com> References: <200202190206.g1J26gP06218@wbyfw3.us.fortis.com> Message-ID: <20020219025359.GA5387@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:10:38PM -0600, Jean Ahles wrote: >I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. > Oh for pete's sake can someone suspend this persons account? -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/af93274f/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 18 21:12:10 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020218190606.I4555@sherohman.org> References: <20020218182425.3c1cd899.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020218190606.I4555@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Monday 18 February 2002 07:06 pm, you wrote: > I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would > kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have > disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... http://pblumo.free.fr/wmNetscapeKiller/ There is also the more general: http://internettrash.com/users/beuz/wmappkill.html From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 21:28:03 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1968 - 5 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190314.g1J3Enn07175@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 21:12 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: IBM history (Steve Horejsi) 4. list ettiqutte and auto-responders (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1967 - 1 msg (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:13:27 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. Your mail wasn't a flame. So credit yourself back one. Use it on the guy who's auto-responder keeps sending mails to the list or the person who's ISP sends you back a mail saying your message has the word "sh*t" in it. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cbTHCpAw0ZoN3FkRAjODAJ91Z7f01aqcI7jVbabyWyo3gCD26wCdGyPL nz05JoYmMq27+3Z0nEuDjyE= =29tN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA-- --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:14:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --VrqPEDrXMn8OVzN4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 07:06:06PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >> and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a cr= ib >> sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome >> applet to do it for them). > >I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would >kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have >disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... I used to have a shell script to do that. Since i've started using galeon it's not an issue. God I hated netscape 4.7x --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --VrqPEDrXMn8OVzN4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cbT/CpAw0ZoN3FkRAmPKAJwKsPCj6F9MCWoXTYB/X5l4CWVnNQCgxDnt wpkSg6ptpscL9MXICWPKnkE= =jD/7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VrqPEDrXMn8OVzN4-- --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:30:26 -0600 From: Steve Horejsi To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, can't resist the urge to swap old computer stories any longer. I used one of the same 1620 machines that Dave referred to. The 1620 could add in hardware but not multiply; that was in software. Depending on the language (no resident OS on these things...), this could very well be a lookup table in memory. An errant program could easily overwrite this table, temporarily altering the local space-time continuum. 6 X 9 = 42 was well within the realm of possibility on these occasions. Also worked on the System/36. Each machine had two processors, of differing architecture and instruction sets. The CSP (Control Store Processor) did most of the I/O and low-level stuff. The MSP (Main Store Processor) ran the System/3 instruction set. The IBM 5100 came with BASIC and APL built in. During development it came to pass that there was not enough resource to write an APL interpreter for the machine. The underlying CPU was also System/3 architecture and there was existing IBM/360 emulation code for the System/3 as well as APL/360. So the 5100 ran APL/360 on top of a S/360 Emulator all on top of the 16 bit CPU. Performance in APL mode was less than mind-bending. My first 'PC' was a wire-wrapped 8080A (2MHz!) based machine of my own design. (I still have it in a box in the basement.) It had a whopping 4K of RAM (the premium 650ns stuff) and unlike the Altair/IMSAI kits of the day, it had seven-segment LEDs and a Hex keypad for I/O rather than the usual discrete LEDs and bit switches. I know it sounds weird but I don't recall ever running out of memory; keying in code in hex made you appreciate efficient design I guess... -=[ Steve ]=- David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. > --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:20:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, if you're subscribed to a mailing address and have an ISP or a corporate mail account that does the "vacation" auto-responder please head on over to the mailing list subscription page in question and set yourself as "no mail" for mail man lists or "unsubscribe" yourself. If the sysadmin who setup the auto-responder doesn't understand that people may subscribe thier addresses to mailing lists or doesn't know how to setup an auto-responder so that it doesn't respond to mailing lists or postmaster mails have him/her send me an email and I'd be happy to help them out. Thanks. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cbZpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAi1SAJ9+BIwCviqqEKgz31p/MMMdPi/AgwCfc6rZ cCaLugfr0W2T2to/E+tsvno= =jUPI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU-- --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:43:45 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1967 - 1 msg (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:38 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:10:38 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:04 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherohman) 2. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:06:06 -0600 From: Dave Sherohman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib > sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome > applet to do it for them). I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:34:40 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 19:29 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 3. Re: Making POP3 Work (David Dyer-Bennet) 4. RE: How to play music on Linux box! (Terry Houle) 5. OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 6. Re: IBM history (Mike Hicks) 7. Re: Making POP3 Work [OT] (Daniel Churchill) 8. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:23:07 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Glenn McDavid writes: > After reading: > > > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. > > I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. > > Then I saw the msg was from > > > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net > > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. Yep. It was very convenient, except for my count of types of computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same computer. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the "scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market". I did some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in highschool, too. A third-generation replacement for the 1620. (I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that "first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401 were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were based on integrated circuit chips. Microprocessors weren't viewed as a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number, people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:25 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? > > Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them > discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time > then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be > totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) I don't think anyone is being forced to try it. People aren't going to go if they aren't interested, are they? Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink? Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!" Why did you decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk? You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you show them. Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no telling what could happen ;-) > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any computer with any OS, for that matter? Take their cellphone away! Send them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn too complex? There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives, learn how to use Linux. However, a *ton* of the people out there could quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them, and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome applet to do it for them). I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and installing systems. There's research out there that says 90% of people leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life depended on it. Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install something in Windows? Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A waist is a terrible thing / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ to mind. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cZs805OjzVUnj0URAlJyAKDxV4qfSAkIzfBPK06Z7ulZgduugwCfei1b kOPOdea8WoAB4+8nRjtUg3w= =oUVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Scott Raun writes: > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > access POP3? Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 4 From: "Terry Houle" To: Subject: RE: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:47 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Well > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop for the presentation. It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux. I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that. The only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it. So that will probably start the flames. BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in the future. I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it out. terry houle -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > > -- __--__-- Message: 5 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list? Has this changed? I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:44:58 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange concatenation you're coming up with? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a Mexican standoff. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Only we ain't got no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Mexicans. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8caAO05OjzVUnj0URAqDhAJ41WpG8TSbSPlaI1thvikYaZcll1wCg62iE VnHmzri3POfjDHvIViB/CJY= =XlhH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:50:26 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > > access POP3? > > Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with > the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate > that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a > line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into > an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is > it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list archives). I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the time... Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll have to let us know details again. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:01:58 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "Samir M. Nassar" Organization: RedConcepts.NET To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo= ple" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZgpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAj+LAKCGhgHxk9XlfNl+zJ5ccXXLLSDHDACfR18j 5oouxAaob/FpKWJTOAyGbtk= =4Ww9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean thi= s=20 >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? = My=20 >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows= at=20 >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your=20 >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZhpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAh/5AJ9xq0Jw94xyyIv8hofv2Sx4/Puw3gCaAugv zeLz3Jbwu3NUSTLys7MDF78= =wxVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.= =20 >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20 --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZjVCpAw0ZoN3FkRAkrRAJ41l8dhiWtldV8V0QvNHYVdiRKqwwCfd9w/ 0OziczcwwfkVt2m1HYBMl0I= =K4BQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Mon Feb 18 21:28:45 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] was this poor dumb b*stards auto responder In-Reply-To: <200202190239.g1J2din06176@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> References: <200202190239.g1J2din06176@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> Message-ID: <200202181509.g1IF9AE01792@localhost.localdomain> > I can > be paged at 651-532-1967. > > I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, > February 22, 2002. this is going to go on until friday?!?!?!?!?!? I think we should start paging him. I deem it an emergency. From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Mon Feb 18 21:44:12 2002 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: IBM history Message-ID: <20020218194123.9041.c000-h005.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> My first computer was a 48Kb ZX Spectrum (better than the base 16k), using a tape recorder for storage. But the first one I used was a ZX80, with 1Kb of memory and the option to update the screen or accept input, but not at the same time! And I guess the speed was measured in Hertz (no mega) Cheers, Paul > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > R From Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com Mon Feb 18 22:02:08 2002 From: Jean.Ahles at us.fortis.com (Jean Ahles) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1969 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Message-ID: <200202190345.g1J3jnI16685@wbyfw1.us.fortis.com> I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 21:44 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) (Ben Lutgens) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Munir Nassar) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1968 - 5 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:54:00 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:10:38PM -0600, Jean Ahles wrote: >I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is = an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a req= uest to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be p= aged at 651-532-1967. > Oh for pete's sake can someone suspend this persons account? --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cb5HCpAw0ZoN3FkRAi06AJ9ECfYCy8iAw6cCGXzPVR2TgDSYWwCgkpui NAfiBm4Oq7GgwkyRMZ7EeE0= =Tmoi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Munir Nassar To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:45:23 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 07:06 pm, you wrote: > I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would > kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have > disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... http://pblumo.free.fr/wmNetscapeKiller/ There is also the more general: http://internettrash.com/users/beuz/wmappkill.html --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:18:36 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1968 - 5 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 21:12 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: IBM history (Steve Horejsi) 4. list ettiqutte and auto-responders (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1967 - 1 msg (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:13:27 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. Your mail wasn't a flame. So credit yourself back one. Use it on the guy who's auto-responder keeps sending mails to the list or the person who's ISP sends you back a mail saying your message has the word "sh*t" in it. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cbTHCpAw0ZoN3FkRAjODAJ91Z7f01aqcI7jVbabyWyo3gCD26wCdGyPL nz05JoYmMq27+3Z0nEuDjyE= =29tN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:14:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --VrqPEDrXMn8OVzN4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 07:06:06PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: >On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >> and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a cr= ib >> sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome >> applet to do it for them). > >I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would >kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have >disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... I used to have a shell script to do that. Since i've started using galeon it's not an issue. God I hated netscape 4.7x --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --VrqPEDrXMn8OVzN4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cbT/CpAw0ZoN3FkRAmPKAJwKsPCj6F9MCWoXTYB/X5l4CWVnNQCgxDnt wpkSg6ptpscL9MXICWPKnkE= =jD/7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VrqPEDrXMn8OVzN4-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:30:26 -0600 From: Steve Horejsi To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, can't resist the urge to swap old computer stories any longer. I used one of the same 1620 machines that Dave referred to. The 1620 could add in hardware but not multiply; that was in software. Depending on the language (no resident OS on these things...), this could very well be a lookup table in memory. An errant program could easily overwrite this table, temporarily altering the local space-time continuum. 6 X 9 = 42 was well within the realm of possibility on these occasions. Also worked on the System/36. Each machine had two processors, of differing architecture and instruction sets. The CSP (Control Store Processor) did most of the I/O and low-level stuff. The MSP (Main Store Processor) ran the System/3 instruction set. The IBM 5100 came with BASIC and APL built in. During development it came to pass that there was not enough resource to write an APL interpreter for the machine. The underlying CPU was also System/3 architecture and there was existing IBM/360 emulation code for the System/3 as well as APL/360. So the 5100 ran APL/360 on top of a S/360 Emulator all on top of the 16 bit CPU. Performance in APL mode was less than mind-bending. My first 'PC' was a wire-wrapped 8080A (2MHz!) based machine of my own design. (I still have it in a box in the basement.) It had a whopping 4K of RAM (the premium 650ns stuff) and unlike the Altair/IMSAI kits of the day, it had seven-segment LEDs and a Hex keypad for I/O rather than the usual discrete LEDs and bit switches. I know it sounds weird but I don't recall ever running out of memory; keying in code in hex made you appreciate efficient design I guess... -=[ Steve ]=- David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. > -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:20:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, if you're subscribed to a mailing address and have an ISP or a corporate mail account that does the "vacation" auto-responder please head on over to the mailing list subscription page in question and set yourself as "no mail" for mail man lists or "unsubscribe" yourself. If the sysadmin who setup the auto-responder doesn't understand that people may subscribe thier addresses to mailing lists or doesn't know how to setup an auto-responder so that it doesn't respond to mailing lists or postmaster mails have him/her send me an email and I'd be happy to help them out. Thanks. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cbZpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAi1SAJ9+BIwCviqqEKgz31p/MMMdPi/AgwCfc6rZ cCaLugfr0W2T2to/E+tsvno= =jUPI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:43:45 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1967 - 1 msg (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:38 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:10:38 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1966 - 2 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 20:04 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherohman) 2. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:06:06 -0600 From: Dave Sherohman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:24:25PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib > sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome > applet to do it for them). I was sure that Debian had a WindowMaker dockapp packaged which would kill all running netscape processes, but it seems to have disappeared. I don't think I imagined it... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:34:40 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1965 - 8 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 19:29 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 3. Re: Making POP3 Work (David Dyer-Bennet) 4. RE: How to play music on Linux box! (Terry Houle) 5. OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 6. Re: IBM history (Mike Hicks) 7. Re: Making POP3 Work [OT] (Daniel Churchill) 8. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:23:07 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Glenn McDavid writes: > After reading: > > > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. > > I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. > > Then I saw the msg was from > > > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net > > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. Yep. It was very convenient, except for my count of types of computers used, that Carleton and the higshchool had the same computer. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. Yes, that's my understanding; something for the low end of the "scientific" market as opposed to the "data processing market". I did some programming on the IBM 1130 over at St. Olaf while I was in highschool, too. A third-generation replacement for the 1620. (I know you know this, Glenn, but since the terminology passed out of use some time ago, I'll explain to anybody who *doesn't* know that "first generation" computers were based on vacuum tubes, "second generation" were based on discrete transistors (the IBM 1620 and 1401 were of the second generation), and "third generation" computers were based on integrated circuit chips. Microprocessors weren't viewed as a new generation and weren't routinely given a generation number, people didn't seen them taking over until it was too late.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:25 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Lutgens wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? > > Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them > discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time > then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be > totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) I don't think anyone is being forced to try it. People aren't going to go if they aren't interested, are they? Haven't you ever been happy when someone recommended a good food or drink? Ever look at something and think, "I've got to have that!" Why did you decide it's a good idea to learn how to talk? You never know when someone might see some obvious benefit to what you show them. Whether it's showing someone how to drive or how to do audio in Linux (okay, I don't know who in their right mind would, but there's no telling what could happen ;-) > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. If that's true, then why do they have business using Windows or any computer with any OS, for that matter? Take their cellphone away! Send them to Pennsylvania to live on an Amish farm -- or is the butter churn too complex? There are people who could not, even if they spent their entire lives, learn how to use Linux. However, a *ton* of the people out there could quickly learn to use StarOffice, drag-n-drop files onto XMMS to play them, and even kill netscape when it locks up (okay, they'd probably need a crib sheet for that, and sooner or later, someone will make a KDE or Gnome applet to do it for them). I will grant that there are problems when it comes to configuring and installing systems. There's research out there that says 90% of people leave things the way they are and woudln't twiddle the knob if their life depended on it. Even pros succumb to it once in a while. Do you delete the superfluous icons that land on your desktop after you install something in Windows? Hmm.. My flame quota has been exceeded for the month.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ A waist is a terrible thing / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ to mind. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cZs805OjzVUnj0URAlJyAKDxV4qfSAkIzfBPK06Z7ulZgduugwCfei1b kOPOdea8WoAB4+8nRjtUg3w= =oUVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.ANO58:tSNyp/ns-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Scott Raun writes: > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > access POP3? Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 4 From: "Terry Houle" To: Subject: RE: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:24:47 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Well > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Well as President of the Twin Cities PC Users group we will use my laptop for the presentation. It is dual booting with Red Hat Linux. I am trying to switch but have to understand it before I can do that. The only reason not to switch is cause I don't understand it. So that will probably start the flames. BTW if I can post to the Annoucne I will put these type posts on there in the future. I thought only the admins could post to it but I will check it out. terry houle -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > > -- __--__-- Message: 5 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: OT: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 5:28 pm, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: I thought Yahoo sourced email did not get throught to the list? Has this changed? I accidently sent this using smtp.mail.yahoo.com. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:44:58 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > in my first paid programming job. There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange concatenation you're coming up with? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a Mexican standoff. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Only we ain't got no \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) Mexicans. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8caAO05OjzVUnj0URAqDhAJ41WpG8TSbSPlaI1thvikYaZcll1wCg62iE VnHmzri3POfjDHvIViB/CJY= =XlhH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.'kI?uMuSFw6k8c-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:50:26 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 06:26 pm, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Scott Raun writes: > > OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. > > > > Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to > > access POP3? > > Insufficient data. The POP3 server you run has to be compatible with > the way that user's email is stored, and has to know how to validate > that user's access. Are they a a regular user (have a user id and a > line in /etc/passwd), or something else? Is their mail delivered into > an mbox, maildir, or something else, where is it located, and what is > it named? What POP3 server is it you're trying to get going? This was a time-warp message from Oct (do NOT respond to talk about the time-warp - if you don't know what I'm talking about, check the list archives). I believe it made sense in the context of the thread at the time... Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll have to let us know details again. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:01:58 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1964 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:56 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Samir M. Nassar) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 3. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 4. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 5. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 6. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "Samir M. Nassar" Organization: RedConcepts.NET To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Windows 3.1 was not any easier to learn when moving from MS-DOS than when moving from Windows to Linux. I had a hard time moving from command line to GUI. I had just a hard time moving back to limited GUI use when moving to Linux. As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice. Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. I would hope that one day all third world countries have Operating System Institutes funded by taxes and run by Universities and Non-profit foundations. Prefferably these institutes would create Linux distros and kernel modifications that are necessary for that country. The Palestinian Operating System Institute (POSI) would run POSIX, the POSI Exchange, sort of a national Sourceforge....... I guess this doesn't really concern most people, but it does address the question of why convert people to Windows. Why one asks? Because it is better. Oh, another thing. My little brother 16 and 13 with only windows experience automatically took to linux. So when I go home this summer I'll install RedHat 7.2 so that they can play their favorite game again. (Tux Racer) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:11:21 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:44:09PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: >Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just >schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh >yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where "most peo= ple" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick to mickeysoft or Mac products. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZgpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAj+LAKCGhgHxk9XlfNl+zJ5ccXXLLSDHDACfR18j 5oouxAaob/FpKWJTOAyGbtk= =4Ww9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:12:25 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:28:14PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > >Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean thi= s=20 >open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? = My=20 >mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows= at=20 >all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your=20 >family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) > Good for them. Good for you. And yes my family probably is a little off. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZhpCpAw0ZoN3FkRAh/5AJ9xq0Jw94xyyIv8hofv2Sx4/Puw3gCaAugv zeLz3Jbwu3NUSTLys7MDF78= =wxVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:14:13 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:07:19PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > >As an aside, I am trying out Ximian GNOME (on RH 7.2) and it looks nice.= =20 >Between RedCarpet and up2date it should make life easy for newbies. Yeah provided you not behind a firewall.=20 --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cZjVCpAw0ZoN3FkRAkrRAJ41l8dhiWtldV8V0QvNHYVdiRKqwwCfd9w/ 0OziczcwwfkVt2m1HYBMl0I= =K4BQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UFHRwCdBEJvubb2X-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Robert Leduc writes: > On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Jay Kline writes: > > > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > I feel old. > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > the old IBM 386 mainframe. That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed in my first paid programming job. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1963 - 3 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 18:21 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 2. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Rodd Ahrenstorff) 3. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- __--__-- Message: 2 From: Rodd Ahrenstorff To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:29:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 4:05 pm, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to > use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort > of thing. Most of those people might just tell you to kiss-off Ben. Do you mean this open source operating system is meant for only the guru geek type admins? My mom is using Lycoris Desktop/lx right now...and she had never used Windows at all. My brother is also using Mandrake on his laptop. Maybe it's your family members who aren't right-in-the-head :^) -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:52:56 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1962 - 6 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 17:47 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Mike Hicks) 2. Re: IBM history (Ben Lutgens) 3. Making POP3 Work (Scott Raun) 4. Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) (Jean Ahles) 5. Re: IBM history (Glenn McDavid) 6. Re: xf86config (Matthew S. Hallacy) -- __--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:44:09 -0600 From: Mike Hicks To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel Churchill wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, > or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of > theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's > such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that > Linux really isn't that difficult. Heh, reminds me that I switched from OS/2 to Linux due to the fact that sound worked better in Linux. Creative dropped support for OS/2 around the time I started getting into Linux, so it just pushed me further along the path. > I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll > stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux > as an alternative, IMHO. Ben can come off sounding pretty harsh.. I'm still not sure if he's just schizo or if he likes to play devil's advocate and not tell anyone. Oh yeah, he likes flamewars, too, so it's probably impossible to say :-p -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If a word in the dictionary / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ were mispelled, how would \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) we know? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8cYO805OjzVUnj0URAqpUAJ9HGekIYAgqGgV04SCFouxpU+8Y/QCeLjVP nvxvWn+qwm+tVv9wkpokWeA= =qNAP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UKdxPy7nF02Ym=-- -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:49:23 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an IBM XT when I was a kid though. >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. =20 holy shit. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cYTzCpAw0ZoN3FkRAknOAKC1+V7xVsquSOIQ61sL4vdixuWpEgCfZdyP 5mWR+FFFmnVtty7/Rfsrj1U= =kM0B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:21:41 -0600 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org From: Scott Raun Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org OK, I got a telnet session into port 110, and it claims to be talking. Is there something that I have to do for a user account to be able to access POP3? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:03:34 -0600 From: "Jean Ahles" To: Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1961 - 14 msgs (OoO - ) Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I will out of the office February 19th - February 21st, 2002. If this is an Automation emergency, please contact our hotline at x5760, or send a request to "Woodbury Automation". If this is a personal emergency, I can be paged at 651-532-1967. I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, February 22, 2002. Thank you, Jean >>> tclug-list 02/18/02 16:58 >>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to tclug-list@mn-linux.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org You can reach the person managing the list at tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IBM history (James Spinti) 2. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Chad C. Walstrom) 3. Re: IBM history (Jay Kline) 4. Re: (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options (Dan Drake) 5. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Jim Kaufman) 6. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 7. Re: IBM history (David Dyer-Bennet) 8. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Daniel Churchill) 9. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Michael Vieths) 10. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Dave Sherman) 11. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (James Spinti) 12. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Kelly Black) 13. Re: How to play music on Linux box! (Ben Lutgens) 14. Re: IBM history (Robert Leduc) -- __--__-- Message: 1 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered memory capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives and a printer cost about $4,500. Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you installed it yourself). Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! Misty eyed, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history > if this doesn't make your eyes glaze over, you *are* a geek. :) > > http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/faq_0000000011.html > > fascinating stuff. :) > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > (952) 943-8700 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- __--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:16:16 -0600 From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:17:58AM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > Whose bright idea was it to have `j' be the option for handling > bzipped tarballs?=20 There was a conflict with the original GNU tar application binding for bzip2: 'I'. It conflicts with other *NIX/BSD'ish use of that same option. Other characters were suggested, but 'j' was settled upon as the default by the GNU tar maintainers. I'm assuming that Brad at the Math department ran into the same conflict, but instead of following the development discussions on the GNU tar email list, he chose -y because it wasn't being used. This last is just an assumption on my part, but knowing Brad, I don't think it's too far from the truth. --=20 Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVMADMcLGCBsWv0RAjwPAJsGX2xWyjd4Pfcuu+eRNd2l1B9DbwCdGadj gtfVYbwbrq9F+md/0p1bGEg= =lsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- -- __--__-- Message: 3 From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:27:02 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) (Though I did use a 386 previously) Jay -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:09 -0600 From: Dan Drake To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] (rant) tar and `j' and `y' options Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 08:50AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You forgot I. A number of people favor explicitly piping between tar > and bzip2 simply to avoid the j/y/I issue. Good call. I should teach my fingers to do "bzcat" a bit more often. I'm reminded of von Neumann's remark about math: "In mathematics, you don't understand things, you just get used to them." I suppose *nix is no different. > > It seems like it wouldn't be difficult to extend the `z' option to > > handle bzip2 archives, by simply looking at the file's extensions. Or > > looking at the first bytes of the file and recognizing the binary > > formats. >=20 > For decoding/extracting, that makes good sense. For encoding/ > creating an archive, it would be arguably the Wrong Thing. z =3D gzip, > not bzip2. Ah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, when creating archives I usually use "cf" (that's what my fingers do automatically) and then [g|b]zip the .tar file. What I really want is for tar to read my mind and do things automatically. I'd also appreciate it if tar did my homework for me. And I could go for some pizza right about now: $ tar --order-pizza tar: unrecognized option `--order-pizza' Try `tar --help' for more information. =2E..darn. :) Dan --=20 | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVb162q8KrChmb8RAl74AJ4mb+jj/T1I+g0pwpcYYt+bGNQf7gCbBGmR 9t99mteRF1hygisRuvW8ayY= =J9xu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0600 From: Jim Kaufman To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:28:12AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:13:15AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >It will be a very basic introduction to getting the sound card working > >under Redhat 7.2, using xmms, lame and grip. >=20 > O.k. that will take all of 5 minutes, what do you plan to do for the rest > of the time? :-) >=20 > --=20 > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 > Sistina Software Inc. >=20 > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC= 59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. --=20 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cVjryrIKiW2AJhkRAoGZAKClhNZXZpwsXof03J6fx9dEPfjlPwCguuk6 PosRxVKeWYwBOEGDKdk4s8A= =W5Pm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:00:38 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cV1mCpAw0ZoN3FkRApjjAJ9M4nJsfCb3qdkE90YtRKPjswlHLwCgnHt7 GF5PdAuWHWkNCAgS6ipkDAM= =PCXk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- -- __--__-- Message: 7 To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history From: David Dyer-Bennet Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:31:41 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Jay Kline writes: > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use CP/M, > > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with dual > > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system RAM > > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > > installed it yourself). > > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > (Though I did use a 386 previously) I feel old. Do you feel young? I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. I worked on at least 8 different *types* of computer before I ever owned a computer. The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ -- __--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:46:28 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Churchill To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable > >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk > >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > > > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > You bother because there are some users who have no experienc with Linx, or who heard a horror story from a friend about some other friend of theirs who tried Linux and couldn't get their sound to work and how it's such a difficult OS to deal with. You bother to show such users that Linux really isn't that difficult. I'ts this sort of cynical "you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on mine" attitude that poisons people toward even considering Linux as an alternative, IMHO. Just my $.02. Dan -- __--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:58 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Vieths To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the right tools, but I choose to use Linux. Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com -- __--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! From: Dave Sherman To: TC-LUG Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows= " > users. There's very little reason for them to switch. Troll!! Dave --=20 Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQA8cXI42Z8cVuWkSnkRAu/5AJ90/wf7QWS+UHejeFcsgvshkgfI2QCbBNja rR/ffUf0T0bQk1vb42Bm9W4= =nm6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Hm4/mIP08yTtjJJiuZv7-- -- __--__-- Message: 11 From: "James Spinti" To: Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:37:27 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:41:31PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Well, the target audience is the TCPC group. They are knowledgeable >about PCs, but know little of Linux. I think I can stretch out the talk >for at least twenty minutes. Then we can all get a beer. > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? check out this link, it could be worse: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020212.html or, worse yet: http://www.ubersoft.net/d/20020213.html Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) -- __--__-- Message: 12 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:43:14 -0600 Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I was once one of "those" people. After various os's with Basic and various assembler chunks as the main interface, I went off to do things with DOS and Winders. I since gotten myself right in the head. Although some would question how much. :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 14:42, you wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Why bother? None of those people will use linux anyway. They are > > "windows" users. There's very little reason for them to switch. > > Why does anyone switch? I could do as much on a Windows box with the > right tools, but I choose to use Linux. > > Many of us were one of 'those people' at some point in our lives. We > switched, or are switching, for some reason or other. Maybe for somebody > it'll be 'Because someone at a PC user's group meeting showed me how'. > > -- > Michael Vieths > Foeclan@Visi.com > -- __--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:05:26 -0600 From: Ben Lutgens To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 03:37:27PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Having a bad user day, Ben :( Or just need to stir the pot a bit? Neither, i just think we shouldn't push people to try linux. Let them discover it on thier own. Otherwise, inevitably they'll have a hard time then they'll tell everyone they know that it sucks (which wouldn't be totally unreasonable since it would be thier opinion) Further, most people have no business using it. I'd never expect my mom to use it, or my sister or brother for that matter. They aren't into this sort of thing. --=20 Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/=09 Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint =3D 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cXqmCpAw0ZoN3FkRAilSAJ0Sy2FyzwqkI4htHSi8TlZtYAzA8gCfQwfg Qqc3Z5fBQuTtKanfhjVsvEI= =yhR4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- -- __--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Leduc To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On 18 Feb 2002, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Jay Kline writes: > > > On Monday 18 February 2002 12:13 pm, you wrote: > > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > > > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I feel old. > > Do you feel young? > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or the old IBM 386 mainframe. R -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:22:52 -0600 (CST) From: Glenn McDavid To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history Organization: very little Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org After reading: > The first computer I programmed did not have any sort of disk drive. > It had 20,000 *decimal digits* of magnetic core memory. I immediately thought: That sounds like an IBM 1620. Then I saw the msg was from > David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a replacement for the 1620. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid -- __--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:25:14 -0600 From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] xf86config Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:49:01PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Cool, this worked. Thanks Matthew. I neglected to write down the > settings of XF86Config when I blew away RH. One question, what is the > ZAxisMapping for? Scroll wheel? However, I did shut off gpm and > uninstalled the package. Yes, ZAxisMapping is for the scrollwheel. > Shawn -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. 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Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. 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Thank you ***************************************************************** -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** --__--__-- _______________________________________________ tclug-list mailing list tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list End of tclug-list Digest **************************************************************** Please Note The information in this E-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you, the reader of this message, are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you should not further disseminate, distribute, or forward this E-mail message. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender. Thank you ***************************************************************** From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Mon Feb 18 22:02:50 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Stuff at Micro Center Message-ID: <20020218215424.A3322@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Well, to change the subject from TCPC and Linux... I picked up a copy of Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for Linux at Computer Micro Center today. I felt a bit guilty buying it. It only cost $1.33. I'm going to install it now. Bye. -- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/6d243e78/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Mon Feb 18 22:19:12 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: <20020218224923.GB1325@sistina.com> References: <20020218224923.GB1325@sistina.com> Message-ID: <02021822043200.00809@geezer> On Monday 18 February 2002 16:49, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 04:30:38PM -0600, Robert Leduc wrote: > >> > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 :-) > >> > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > I'm almost 30 years old an my first computer was a P200MMX. I had used an > IBM XT when I was a kid though. > > >> I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > holy shit. 5 before a 386 sounds about right. I also have the distinction of having worked with Sony's original "video computer" and the one they designed the 3.5" floppy for, at least that's what the engineers said. It was called the SMC-70. If you want to see pictures you can go here (caution: its in Japanese): http://www3.wind.ne.jp/toragiku/kopa/smc70.htm For those who are curious it had a Z80-B processor and ran CP/M. Sadly I did not own one of these. Its a classic. ;-) If you want all specs: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=362 -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From kelly-black at mediaone.net Mon Feb 18 22:22:01 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: IBM history In-Reply-To: <20020218194123.9041.c000-h005.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020218194123.9041.c000-h005.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <02021822163701.09261@edith> Sweet. I always wanted a Timex-Sinclair 2068, but did not spend the cash. My first puter was a TS-1000 w/ 2K. http://www.algonet.se/~rsm/zx/clones/timex-sinclair.html It actually ran at 3.5 MHz clock and blanked the screen when running in "fast" mode where it did not do any screen updates. I did read a few posts on the Elks list with some people wanting to port the sub-Linux Elks kernel to a Z80. Wonder if anybody did anything with that. I know UZIX was discussed as a possible starting point (Z80 in an MSX box) http://uzix.sourceforge.net/uzix_links.html But it looks like it did not gain momentum. Anybody tried this: http://LNG.sourceforge.net/ (Unix for C64 and C128) Not that anybody would admit to owning such a creature! Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 18 February 2002 21:41, you wrote: > My first computer was a 48Kb ZX Spectrum (better than the > base 16k), using a tape recorder for storage. But the first > one I used was a ZX80, with 1Kb of memory and the option to > update the screen or accept input, but not at the same time! > And I guess the speed was measured in Hertz (no mega) > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > Prepare to feel old- the first system I had was a P75 > : > :-) > : > > > > (Though I did use a 386 previously) > > > > > > I feel old. > > > > > > Do you feel young? > > > > > > I owned at least 5 computers before I owned a 386. > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > > > R > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 18 23:44:02 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020219052756.GC16523@wookimus.net> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:11:21PM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > No, I really think most people should stay away from linux. Where > "most people" is casual non-technical users. Those people should stick > to mickeysoft or Mac products. Depends. If the casual non-technical user is happy with a system that rarely, if ever, crashes, that has all of the software that (s)?he needs for creating documents, sending email, browsing the web, and playing a few games, then Linux is as good a fit as any. If the casual non-technical user wants to have the latest and greatest games, then they should do one of two things: 1) buy a console gaming unit (Nintendo, PS2, X-box) 2) become a casual technical user You can't have the best of all worlds. There is sacrifice that amounts to applying one's learning skills. If the casual non-technical user is not willing to learn, then they shouldn't be using computers in the first place. Now, if you were to say most people were market-driven consumers, then absolutely, they should stick with market-driven software products and platforms. Even then, the lines are starting to shade a bit. Regardless, we're all biased one way or another. You won't know how someone will react to Linux until you sit him/her down at the computer and give him/her a quick go-around on it. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020218/56629b17/attachment.pgp From dutchman at uswest.net Tue Feb 19 07:02:02 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing Network Drivers Message-ID: <3C724A08.A3A510FA@mn.uswest.net> Question: How do you swap out network drivers? I need to replace the eepro100 driver I am currently running with an e100 driver in an attempt to resolve some network problems. I tried bringing down eth0, loading and the e100 driver and then bringing eth0 back up but there was no joy. In addition I went poking around my startup scripts to find which one loaded the network driver on startup but could not find it. Anyone know which RH 7.2 startup script loads the network driver? -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From DACross at nwc.edu Tue Feb 19 07:19:24 2002 From: DACross at nwc.edu (DACross@nwc.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Trouble with Dial-in server Message-ID: Thanks for replying to this, Florin. Turns out, it was a corrupt Dialup Networking in Windoze. I've resolved it by reinstalling DUN on Windoze ME. ++++++++++++++++++++++ David Cross, KC0KII From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Feb 19 07:35:04 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing Network Drivers In-Reply-To: <3C724A08.A3A510FA@mn.uswest.net> References: <3C724A08.A3A510FA@mn.uswest.net> Message-ID: did you unload the old driver using rmmod? -munir On Tuesday 19 February 2002 06:50 am, you wrote: > Question: How do you swap out network drivers? > > I need to replace the eepro100 driver I am currently running with an > e100 driver in an attempt to resolve some network problems. I tried > bringing down eth0, loading and the e100 driver and then bringing eth0 > back up but there was no joy. In addition I went poking around my > startup scripts to find which one loaded the network driver on startup > but could not find it. Anyone know which RH 7.2 startup script loads > the network driver? From jack at jacku.com Tue Feb 19 07:35:50 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Unix on a C64 (was: IBM history) In-Reply-To: <02021822163701.09261@edith> References: <20020218194123.9041.c000-h005.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <02021822163701.09261@edith> Message-ID: <02021907314000.00782@geezer> On Monday 18 February 2002 22:16, Kelly Black wrote: > Anybody tried this: > http://LNG.sourceforge.net/ > (Unix for C64 and C128) Not that anybody would admit to owning such a > creature! > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > I haven't but I might just consider it! My first computer was the venerable C64. I still have it and at last check (about 2 years ago :) it still works! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From churchid at visi.com Tue Feb 19 07:51:02 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing Network Drivers In-Reply-To: <3C724A08.A3A510FA@mn.uswest.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > Question: How do you swap out network drivers? > > I need to replace the eepro100 driver I am currently running with an > e100 driver in an attempt to resolve some network problems. I tried > bringing down eth0, loading and the e100 driver and then bringing eth0 > back up but there was no joy. In addition I went poking around my > startup scripts to find which one loaded the network driver on startup > but could not find it. Anyone know which RH 7.2 startup script loads > the network driver? > Look in /etc/modules.conf. You'll see a line that looks something like alias eth0 eepro100. You probably need to change it to alias eth0 e100, or whatever the name of the loadable module is for your new driver. Also, if you have any option lines for your ethernet driver, you'll need to either comment them, or make sure they work with your new driver, and then reboot. Caveat: I haven't had to mess with this stuff for a while, as my last several installations I have done have been detected correctly on install, so I may be forgetting something and/or have forgotten something, but I'm pretty sure modules.conf is where you need to change your driver. Dan From dutchman at uswest.net Tue Feb 19 07:51:43 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Changing Network Drivers References: <3C724A08.A3A510FA@mn.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3C7254C4.C658F28B@mn.uswest.net> No, the -r option on modprobe. Is it the same or different? Munir Nassar wrote: > did you unload the old driver using rmmod? > > -munir > > On Tuesday 19 February 2002 06:50 am, you wrote: > > Question: How do you swap out network drivers? > > > > I need to replace the eepro100 driver I am currently running with an > > e100 driver in an attempt to resolve some network problems. I tried > > bringing down eth0, loading and the e100 driver and then bringing eth0 > > back up but there was no joy. In addition I went poking around my > > startup scripts to find which one loaded the network driver on startup > > but could not find it. Anyone know which RH 7.2 startup script loads > > the network driver? > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Tue Feb 19 08:45:11 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> Message-ID: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "BL" == Ben Lutgens writes: BL> Hey all, if you're subscribed to a mailing address and have an ISP or a BL> corporate mail account that does the "vacation" auto-responder please BL> head BL> on over to the mailing list subscription page in question and set BL> yourself BL> as "no mail" for mail man lists or "unsubscribe" yourself. BL> If the sysadmin who setup the auto-responder doesn't understand that BL> people BL> may subscribe thier addresses to mailing lists or doesn't know how to BL> setup an auto-responder so that it doesn't respond to mailing lists or BL> postmaster mails have him/her send me an email and I'd be happy to help BL> them out. Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails as "Bulk"? In the old days that's what kept my vacation mail from spamming.... Maybe this person's expecting the TCLUG-list to be bulk.... R From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Tue Feb 19 08:58:45 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history References: <3C71B8C2.6080700@skypoint.com> Message-ID: <005201c1b94f$cf4a6a00$1e02a8c0@zippy> Folks who roll their own computers seem to gravitate to *nix computers. Perhaps it is the responsiveness to tinkering? The following random thoughts are mostly to share fond memories with other longtime computer/Linux hackers. In the personal roll-your-own wire-wrap category: sc/mp from national, 256 bytes of ram, toggle switch input. TI bit slice components, 74181 and related support components, ran from 1702 boot. An interesting note, the processor inside the Diablo printer! Like almost everybody doing home computers in the 70's; Z80 stuff machines out the who-ha. this critter refreshed its own dram so it was fairly painless to put in 64k memory. Depending on your scrounging abilities, your software distros were paper or mag tape. The 4K tiny basic was the most uasable language on my altair. As for scrounged computers, a fair number of the folks in town belonged to the club organized by Richard Koplow in the basement of the resource access center. They had bunches of donated hardware that they were trying to get running for local non-profit groups. I spent many happy hours playing with some of these boxes - my favorite was the BIT-483. This thing had variable word length - you could have a 1000 byte words controlled directly by hardware. And 2 x 8K Fabritec core stacks! When you keyed in a program it stayed across power downs. Yum! Mark Browne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Horejsi" To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM history OK, can't resist the urge to swap old computer stories any longer. My first 'PC' was a wire-wrapped 8080A (2MHz!) based machine of my own design. (I still have it in a box in the basement.) It had a whopping 4K of RAM (the premium 650ns stuff) and unlike the Altair/IMSAI kits of the day, it had seven-segment LEDs and a Hex keypad for I/O rather than the usual discrete LEDs and bit switches. I know it sounds weird but I don't recall ever running out of memory; keying in code in hex made you appreciate efficient design I guess... From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 19 09:24:52 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020219052756.GC16523@wookimus.net> References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> <20020219052756.GC16523@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020219150827.GB16327@sistina.com> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:27:56PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >rarely, if ever, crashes, that has all of the software that (s)?he needs >for creating documents, sending email, browsing the web, and playing a >few games, then Linux is as good a fit as any. Sure, till they try to share files via floppy, or make a cdrom. How about zipping an email attachement, or unzipping one. Let's not forget about what happens when a windows user sends them a microsoft word document and they doublie-click on it in thier mailer.... >If the casual non-technical user wants to have the latest and greatest >games, then they should do one of two things: I wasn't even talking about games. >You can't have the best of all worlds. There is sacrifice that amounts >to applying one's learning skills. If the casual non-technical user is >not willing to learn, then they shouldn't be using computers in the >first place. There's varied levels of how much someone is willing to learn. >Now, if you were to say most people were market-driven consumers, then >absolutely, they should stick with market-driven software products and >platforms. Even then, the lines are starting to shade a bit. And there you have it. >Regardless, we're all biased one way or another. You won't know how >someone will react to Linux until you sit him/her down at the computer and >give him/her a quick go-around on it. I just got turned off of this by too many bad experiences. I helped a person who wanted to use linux get a piece of hardware setup and do some other things for two hours. I tried to teach the individual what I was doing and so-forth, after a while I noticed that glazed in their eye that said "I'm not really interested, you're boring me" now the person is asking me all sorts of question and shows no will to learn what-so-ever (this has happened to me alot lately) and I ask myself two questions: 1.) Why does this person feel the need to use linux? 2.) Why did I waste my time helping? And now I have a half-dozen or so people who need so much help I can rarely concentrate on my own stuff without answering very basic questions. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/ef7a0a15/attachment.pgp From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Feb 19 09:25:54 2002 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Idea for OT posts... OT List References: Message-ID: <3C726B07.9DD994A7@structural-wood.com> andy@theasis.com wrote: > > > Either that or require using [TCLUG-OT] in the subject. > > For those that don't want to read them they can setup an e-mail filter to > > automatically delete e-mails with [TCLUG-OT] in the subjet. > > > JasonL > > The problem with any such mechanism is influencing peoples' behavior so > that they use it. > > Currently, any post that's perceived as a transgression of someone's idea > of netiquette or bad mood generates 40 posts of various interpretation, > griping, ranting or bickering. The only hope to clean up some of the noise > is to have a published policy to which list members can and will be > referred. Seems to me a minimal implementation is to > * draft a policy based on input on the list > * have a certain group (officers?) approve the policy and any changes to > it. > * make everyone agree to the policy before being allowed to post to the > list > * have it on the mn-linux web site, and linked to each mail along with > the unsubscribe instructions > * include in the policy an accepted method for informing someone they've > violated it. Preferably one that's respectful, dignified and OFF list. > > Andy > I appreciate the thought that went in to your reply, but does anyone want this? Most of the rant's have some entertainment value, and it's easy enought to spot and kill annoying threads. I'd rather have a freewheeling, entertaining, and sometimes informative list than a stuffy boring list - there is no shortage of those. The funny part is that this group comes up with answers faster than most of the boring lists - probably because this list doesn't discourage participation (well, not as long as you have a relatively thick skin). From jmlohren at citilink.com Tue Feb 19 09:43:08 2002 From: jmlohren at citilink.com (Jason Lohrenz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT - About List References: <3BE0CDD4.9D2E0156@mninter.net> <20020218025421.GA1466@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <000f01c1b95a$9f72a350$0200a8c0@gomer> Hey, I subscribed to this list about 3 weeks ago. Suddenly this weekend I began recieving the Digest form as well. I never subscribed for the digest form, so I'm not sure how to un-subscribe from it, or if it is just a spoof. If I just need to unsubscribe say so, and I'll sheepishly walk away ;-) but if it's just a glitch, that'd be nice to know as well. JasonL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Scripting help and iptables From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 19 10:05:31 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020219154112.GE16327@sistina.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:28:50AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails >as "Bulk"? In the old days that's what kept my vacation mail from >spamming.... Maybe this person's expecting the TCLUG-list to be bulk.... My "vacation" auto-responder doesn't respond to mailman lists. To the best of my knowledge mailman sets all the right priority flags. This is a broken auto-responder. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/68799163/attachment.pgp From churchid at visi.com Tue Feb 19 10:17:47 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT - About List In-Reply-To: <000f01c1b95a$9f72a350$0200a8c0@gomer> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Jason Lohrenz wrote: > Hey, > I subscribed to this list about 3 weeks ago. Suddenly this weekend I > began recieving the Digest form as well. I never subscribed for the digest > form, so I'm not sure how to un-subscribe from it, or if it is just a spoof. > If I just need to unsubscribe say so, and I'll sheepishly walk away ;-) but > if it's just a glitch, that'd be nice to know as well. Not sure, but it sounds like you might be referring to the responses to the list sent by Jean Ahles's auto-responder. Jean Ahles, apparently, DOES (or at least used to) subscribe to the digest form, which was included in the auto-responder message. Dan From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 19 10:19:25 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: List headers (was Re: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders) In-Reply-To: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020219160303.GA22588@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:28:50AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails > as "Bulk"? In the old days that's what kept my vacation mail from > spamming.... Maybe this person's expecting the TCLUG-list to be > bulk.... Not required, but a good idea none-the-less. There are lots of headers that identify a mailing list, but bulk is definitely one of them. Check out the headers.rc file for procmail in the procmail-lib package. For info on Debian packages and their original source tarballs (if you want to roll-your-own), go to: http://packages.debian.org/procmail-lib P.S. You can replace procmail-lib with any string to search for as a package name. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 19 10:35:35 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails > as "Bulk"? In the old days that's what kept my vacation mail from > spamming.... Maybe this person's expecting the TCLUG-list to be > bulk.... Messages already have the right headers.. ie: X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Nothing there that identifies a mailing list, eh? :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 19 10:51:06 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] was this poor dumb b*stards auto responder In-Reply-To: <200202181509.g1IF9AE01792@localhost.localdomain>; from jwickard@litriusgroup.com on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:09:10AM -0600 References: <200202190239.g1J2din06176@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> <200202181509.g1IF9AE01792@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20020219103627.B14150@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:09:10AM -0600, Joel Wickard wrote: > > I can > > be paged at 651-532-1967. > > > > I will respond to your message when I return to the office on Friday, > > February 22, 2002. > > this is going to go on until friday?!?!?!?!?!? > > I think we should start paging him. I deem it an emergency. Looks like it's already been taken care of (but, given that the autoresponder is getting digests, that makes it a little harder to tell), but it might be more effective to write a script to automatically send one page for each autoresponse. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 19 10:51:56 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com>; from goldman@htc.honeywell.com on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:28:50AM -0600 References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020219103638.C14150@sherohman.org> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:28:50AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails > as "Bulk"? You mean like adding a header that says: Precedence: bulk ? Or we could indicate that this is coming from a Mailman list with something like: X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 but that might be too specific, so it might be better to indicate, in a more generic fashion, that it's a mailing list by using: List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List which should be applicable to any mailing list, regardless of the software running it. Oh, wait a minute - all three of those headers are already there. Never mind. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Tue Feb 19 10:56:14 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: References: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <15474.32751.216276.424000@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "NC" == Nate Carlson writes: NC> On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails >> as "Bulk"? In the old days that's what kept my vacation mail from >> spamming.... Maybe this person's expecting the TCLUG-list to be >> bulk.... NC> Messages already have the right headers.. ie: NC> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 NC> Precedence: bulk NC> List-Help: NC> List-Post: NC> List-Subscribe: , NC> List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List NC> List-Unsubscribe: , NC> List-Archive: NC> Nothing there that identifies a mailing list, eh? :) I'm confused, actually. I've looked at a number of different messages and one didn't seem to have all those flags set. Yours, of course, does. I'll try to go back and see if I can find one that doesn't, or dismiss this all as hallucination! R From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 19 11:06:50 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: References: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020219165247.GG16327@sistina.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:29:14AM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote: >Messages already have the right headers.. ie: > >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 >Precedence: bulk > >Nothing there that identifies a mailing list, eh? :) > Like I said, busted auto responder. What I do is the following in my exim config "vacation" director. #---snip exim runtime config vacation: driver = localuser transport = uservacation require_files = ${home}/.vacation.msg # do not reply to errors or lists senders = "! ^.*-request@.*:\ ! ^owner-.*@.*:\ ! ^postmaster@.*:\ ! ^listmaster@.*:\ ! ^mailer-daemon@.*" # do not reply to errors and bounces or lists condition = "${if or {{match {$h_precedence:} {(?i)junk|bulk|list}} \ {eq {$sender_address} {}}} {no} {yes}}" # carry on checking regardless of the outcome of this director... unseen no_expn no_verify user = ${local_part} #---- end exim runtim config snip So you see, it's not really that difficult. This particular auto responder checks for the existance of a .vacation_message and acts accordingly, it doesn't use any thirdparty binary or a shell and as you can see above, won't respond to addresses it shouldn't respond to. It also keeps track of what addresses it responds to and won't respond to them again. Simple really. God damn I love exim. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/9791499b/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 19 11:07:39 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] was this poor dumb b*stards auto responder In-Reply-To: <20020219103627.B14150@sherohman.org> References: <200202190239.g1J2din06176@wbyfw2.us.fortis.com> <200202181509.g1IF9AE01792@localhost.localdomain> <20020219103627.B14150@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020219165445.GH16327@sistina.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:36:27AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > >Looks like it's already been taken care of (but, given that the >autoresponder is getting digests, that makes it a little harder to >tell), but it might be more effective to write a script to >automatically send one page for each autoresponse. I actually setup an exim filter on my personal account to "resend" these mails to thier errant sysadmin with a note that said "your autoresponder should not be answering mailing lists and postmaster mail" Perhaps after he got a couple of them he decided to fix it. Perhaps the person unsubscribed himself. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/5d511754/attachment.pgp From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Tue Feb 19 11:08:53 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <20020219103638.C14150@sherohman.org> References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <20020219103638.C14150@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <15474.33661.574330.70171@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "DS" == Dave Sherohman writes: DS> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:28:50AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails >> as "Bulk"? DS> You mean like adding a header that says: DS> Precedence: bulk DS> ? Or we could indicate that this is coming from a Mailman list with DS> something like: DS> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 DS> but that might be too specific, so it might be better to indicate, in DS> a more generic fashion, that it's a mailing list by using: DS> List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List DS> which should be applicable to any mailing list, regardless of the DS> software running it. DS> Oh, wait a minute - all three of those headers are already there. DS> Never mind. Whoops. I must have been looking at one of MY messages to the List, BCC'ed to me which, of course, since it didn't ever reach the list, didn't get the headers. Sorry! Please stop the brickbats now. I was wrong, ok? R From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Feb 19 11:14:31 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! Message-ID: <20020219105836.A9608@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Much as it pains me to admit it, I agree with Ben. Frankly, most people using Windows systems are happy enough and really shouldn't be messing around with anything else. If someone is interested enough to want to try a Linux OS, I am happy to provide advice. It doesn't really help to force Linux on anyone. There are so many freely available programs that are Windows-only that people are used to using. My older daughter has a dual-boot system, but spends 90% of her time in Windows. She just can't find the Linux equivalents for her favorite programs, and isn't sure why she should bother. She boots her box up after school and powers it off every evening. Even Win '98 can stay up (usually) for eight hours. I've given up trying to fight it. My home network supports several Linux boxes, a couple of Windows systems, and two Macs. -- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Feb 19 11:24:55 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for WAS How to play musicon Linux box! Message-ID: I am not sure that this is true. I may be wrong, but I thought the TCLUG- Announce list is to announce TCLUG events. This list is for announcements and everything else (so you don't have to be on both lists). Is my take on this correct? Anyone care to comment? >>> fertch@mninter.net 02/17/02 10:22PM >>> Oh, you may also want to post this to the TCLUG-Announce list as, I believe that is where these types of messages are supposed to go. =) From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Feb 19 11:37:50 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020219105836.A9608@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20020219105836.A9608@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020219172554.GI16327@sistina.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:58:36AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: >Much as it pains me to admit it, I agree with Ben. Awww c'mon it's not so bad. Periodically in all my ranting I make valid points. I have no problem saying what's on my mind even if it's wrong :-) >Frankly, most people >using Windows systems are happy enough and really shouldn't be messing >around with anything else. If someone is interested enough to want to >try a Linux OS, I am happy to provide advice. It doesn't really help to >force Linux on anyone. My point is that _convincing_ someone to use it is a bad idea. If they're unhappy with their current setup, they'll discover it on their own. If you convince them that linux is best, show up with a cd and they have nothign but problems you've screwed yourself into spending more time on it that you wanted to and given them lots of ammo to tell people how bad it sucks. >I've given up trying to fight it. My home network supports several Linux At one time I thought that everyone in Sistina should use linux, now i think they should use whatever helps them be the most productive and cost-effective for the company. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/c122e755/attachment.pgp From dd-b at dd-b.net Tue Feb 19 11:50:14 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: <3C71B8C2.6080700@skypoint.com> References: <3C71B8C2.6080700@skypoint.com> Message-ID: Steve Horejsi writes: > OK, can't resist the urge to swap old computer stories any longer. > > I used one of the same 1620 machines that Dave referred to. The 1620 > could add in hardware but not multiply; that was in > software. Depending on the language (no resident OS on these > things...), this could very well be a lookup table in memory. An > errant program could easily overwrite this table, temporarily altering > the local space-time continuum. 6 X 9 = 42 was well within the realm > of possibility on these occasions. The plotting package they wrote for the one at Carleton deliberately altered those tables to implement rotation of the figure being plotted. (The plotter was a Calcomp pen plotter, driven by a homebrew interface that connected to the paper tape outputs.) The one at Carleton also had the floating point hardware (optional). > Also worked on the System/36. Each machine had two processors, of > differing architecture and instruction sets. The CSP (Control Store > Processor) did most of the I/O and low-level stuff. The MSP (Main > Store Processor) ran the System/3 instruction set. Oh, man, that was a weird system. So weird I heard about it even though I never worked anywhere near it. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Feb 19 12:07:53 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I may be wrong, but I thought the TCLUG- > Announce list is to announce TCLUG > events. This list is for announcements and > everything else (so you don't have to be on > both lists). I think these linux related TCPC announcements should be on TCLUG-announce, simply because they end up in a mess of OT discussions otherwise. I don't mind hearing about linux related courses at TCPC, I actually think it's great that someone is offering linux classes on a regular basis. If they were just posted to TCLUG-announce in the first place I don't think Terry would get flamed so badly. -Brian From clay at fandre.com Tue Feb 19 12:15:17 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for WAS How to play musicon Linux box! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020219180808.GG6232@fandre.com> The tclug-announcement list is for TCLUG announcements. I have allowed other Linux-related posts to go out on the list since there are only 1 or 2 a month. Since I have not heard any complaints I didn't think it was a big deal. On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I am not sure that this is true. > > I may be wrong, but I thought the TCLUG- > Announce list is to announce TCLUG > events. This list is for announcements and > everything else (so you don't have to be on > both lists). > > Is my take on this correct? > Anyone care to comment? > > >>> fertch@mninter.net 02/17/02 10:22PM >>> > Oh, you may also want to > post this to the TCLUG-Announce list as, I believe that is where these > types of messages are supposed to go. =) > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Tue Feb 19 12:26:01 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for References: Message-ID: <3C7296F4.1C2B484D@securecomputing.com> Brian wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > I may be wrong, but I thought the TCLUG- > > Announce list is to announce TCLUG > > events. This list is for announcements and > > everything else (so you don't have to be on > > both lists). > > I think these linux related TCPC announcements should be on > TCLUG-announce, simply because they end up in a mess of OT discussions > otherwise. I don't mind hearing about linux related courses at TCPC, I > actually think it's great that someone is offering linux classes on a > regular basis. If they were just posted to TCLUG-announce in the first > place I don't think Terry would get flamed so badly. > > -Brian I think Troy meant that everything sent to TCLUG-ANNOUNCE also show up on this list. It would just show up with [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] instead of [TCLUG]. I could be wrong though. It always seems like stuff on ANNOUNCE also shows up on the general list. -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From clay at fandre.com Tue Feb 19 12:43:47 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020219172554.GI16327@sistina.com> References: <20020219105836.A9608@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020219172554.GI16327@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020219182646.GH6232@fandre.com> I think this topic is related to exactly why the TCLUG was started. It was started to give newbies a place to learn about Linux, and for other Linux users to socialize with other users. It was NOT created to proactively switch users away from other OS's. Yes, Ben has a good point. We shouldn't try and force anyone to use Linux. That will only make Linux look bad since they probably aren't going to enjoy the experience. But if someone wants to switch and needs someplace to go to figure some things out, then lets do everything we can to help them. On the other hand, I think "showing off" Linux is a good thing as well. Yes, 95% probably won't care about Linux, but it's that 5% that might be interested that will benefit in the end. -- Clay On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:58:36AM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > >Much as it pains me to admit it, I agree with Ben. > > Awww c'mon it's not so bad. Periodically in all my ranting I make valid > points. I have no problem saying what's on my mind even if it's wrong :-) > > >Frankly, most people > >using Windows systems are happy enough and really shouldn't be messing > >around with anything else. If someone is interested enough to want to > >try a Linux OS, I am happy to provide advice. It doesn't really help to > >force Linux on anyone. > > My point is that _convincing_ someone to use it is a bad idea. If they're > unhappy with their current setup, they'll discover it on their own. If you > convince them that linux is best, show up with a cd and they have nothign > but problems you've screwed yourself into spending more time on it that you > wanted to and given them lots of ammo to tell people how bad it sucks. > > >I've given up trying to fight it. My home network supports several Linux > > At one time I thought that everyone in Sistina should use linux, now i > think they should use whatever helps them be the most productive and > cost-effective for the company. > > -- > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. > > pub 1024D/9A0DDC59 2001-12-12 Ben Lutgens > Key fingerprint = 8FCD A1EE CEA7 DEE1 9361 F32C 0A90 30D1 9A0D DC59 > sub 1024g/1FC75C99 2001-12-12 From clay at fandre.com Tue Feb 19 12:44:33 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for In-Reply-To: <3C7296F4.1C2B484D@securecomputing.com> References: <3C7296F4.1C2B484D@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: <20020219182813.GI6232@fandre.com> All posts to tclug-announcment also gets sent to tclug-list. On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Jesse Erdmann wrote: > Brian wrote: > > > > On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > > > > I may be wrong, but I thought the TCLUG- > > > Announce list is to announce TCLUG > > > events. This list is for announcements and > > > everything else (so you don't have to be on > > > both lists). > > > > I think these linux related TCPC announcements should be on > > TCLUG-announce, simply because they end up in a mess of OT discussions > > otherwise. I don't mind hearing about linux related courses at TCPC, I > > actually think it's great that someone is offering linux classes on a > > regular basis. If they were just posted to TCLUG-announce in the first > > place I don't think Terry would get flamed so badly. > > > > -Brian > > I think Troy meant that everything sent to TCLUG-ANNOUNCE also show up > on this list. It would just show up with [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] instead of > [TCLUG]. I could be wrong though. It always seems like stuff on > ANNOUNCE also shows up on the general list. > > -- > > Jesse Erdmann > Engineer > Secure Computing Corp. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 19 12:45:17 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: <034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> References: <20011031221142.P20186@real-time.com> <034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020219123833.54658689.fertch@mninter.net> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0600 "James Spinti" wrote: > > Selling for as little as $1,565, the PC used an Intel 4.77 megahertz > processor and Microsoft's Disk Operating System. The machine offered > memory > capacities from 16K to 256K and either one or two diskette drives. An > expanded system for business with color graphics, two diskette drives > and a > printer cost about $4,500. > > Full height, 160K 5.25" floppy. > > My first PC was a Heathkit H-100 with dual 8088/8085 so you could use > CP/M, > since there was so little software for the Z-DOS 1.0 OS. It came with > dual > 360K drives and my printer had true descenders, too and 192K of system > RAM > and 64K of video RAM expandable to 192K (at about $100/64K, if you > installed > it yourself). > > Ah, yes the good old days...4.77 MHz and considering it fast! > Wow, I suppose my old Tandy 1000EX is somewhere in this range as well. It was 4.77MHz/7.44 turbo. Had 64k memory, upgradeable to 640k I believe. 64k-> 256k was about $150, and then from 256-> 640k was another $250 I think. Had an internal 5.25" drive. It looked like an old apple in a way. I put a 300baud modem in. I don't recall the video memory, though it was hercules monochrome. Ran TandyDOS (MSDOS?) 2.11. With Tandy windows. I thought it was a deal back in 85/86 I think. Paid about $600-700 for it on clearance. Took me a month to save to buy the monitor for it. The 9pin printer was $150 I think. Then, later on I bought an external floppy drive and a couple of other accessories for $50. I had the system maxed out to what it's capacity was, and what I could afford. I used it until a couple of years after I got married, though it's wasn't good for much more than writing a couple of letters and text documents at that time compared to the new. It died a flaming, smoking death in '93/94 after it booted up with various characters across the screen. After that, I was at a friend's house, about a year later playing a game. Need I say more other than "DOOM"? Shawn From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Feb 19 13:35:20 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Any AIX SysAdmins Out There? Message-ID: <20020219131947.A11564@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> I just received a call from someone wanting me to upgrade their RS/6000 from AIX 4.3 to AIX 5L (supports Linux!). Anyone out there with experience doing this that wouldn't mind sharing a pointer or two? jmk -- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/eec701a3/attachment.pgp From john at schererzoo.com Tue Feb 19 13:37:48 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Stuff at Micro Center In-Reply-To: <20020218215424.A3322@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20020218215424.A3322@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <1014146538.3812.0.camel@elgato> Being new to the area and way out in Woodbury, where the heck is this place, and is there anything left? -John On Mon, 2002-02-18 at 21:54, Jim Kaufman wrote: > Well, to change the subject from TCPC and Linux... > > I picked up a copy of Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for Linux at Computer > Micro Center today. I felt a bit guilty buying it. It only cost $1.33. > I'm going to install it now. Bye. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jspinti at dartdist.com Tue Feb 19 13:38:35 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history References: <20011031221142.P20186@real-time.com><034001c1b8a7$f7756640$47646496@dart> <20020219123833.54658689.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <023701c1b97b$fb0c7c60$47646496@dart> I had a 15" color monitor of 1983/84 vintage die a very spectacular death back in about 1991/92 (those things were HUGE, I think it was about as big as a 21" is now). I turned on the H-100 8088 (yes, I was still using the Heathkit 8088 with no hard drive at home), then turned on the monitor. All of a sudden POP!, smoke comes billowing out, the room filled with stenchy electrical fire smoke, the flyback transformer had fried. So, I went and hooked up my trusty 13" monochrome monitor and it died too, no smoke or flames, just a silent death. I was heart broken, that was the end of my $7,000 investment from about 8/9 years before. I started using an 80286 a while later... > It died a flaming, smoking death in '93/94 > after it booted up with various characters across the screen. > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From steveg at transition.com Tue Feb 19 13:50:04 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Stuff at Micro Center Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC164@postman.transition.com> I don't know where computer micro center is but just plain old micro center is in St. Louis Park. http://www.microcenter.com/store_locations/map_minnesota.html > -----Original Message----- > From: John Scherer [mailto:john@schererzoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 1:22 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux Stuff at Micro Center > > > Being new to the area and way out in Woodbury, where the heck is this > place, and is there anything left? > > -John > > > On Mon, 2002-02-18 at 21:54, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > Well, to change the subject from TCPC and Linux... > > > > I picked up a copy of Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for Linux > at Computer > > Micro Center today. I felt a bit guilty buying it. It only > cost $1.33. > > I'm going to install it now. Bye. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Feb 19 13:50:56 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Any AIX SysAdmins Out There? In-Reply-To: <20020219131947.A11564@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Jim Kaufman wrote: > I just received a call from someone wanting me to upgrade their RS/6000 > from AIX 4.3 to AIX 5L (supports Linux!). Anyone out there with > experience doing this that wouldn't mind sharing a pointer or two? You might want to join K-LUG in Rochester for stuff like that. Lots of (sometimes scary) IBM gurus who could help you out. Not saying that there won't be any help on TCLUG, but the percentages are a little better. http://www.k-lug.org/ Also note that because you added OT: to the subject line, you are immune from AIX bashing and "what does that have to do with linux" posts :-) -Brian From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 19 14:10:19 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Any AIX SysAdmins Out There? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Brian wrote: > > I just received a call from someone wanting me to upgrade their RS/6000 > > from AIX 4.3 to AIX 5L (supports Linux!). Anyone out there with > > experience doing this that wouldn't mind sharing a pointer or two? > > You might want to join K-LUG in Rochester for stuff like that. Lots > of (sometimes scary) IBM gurus who could help you out. Not saying > that there won't be any help on TCLUG, but the percentages are a > little better. > > http://www.k-lug.org/ > > Also note that because you added OT: to the subject line, you are > immune from AIX bashing and "what does that have to do with linux" > posts :-) So what does this have to do with IRIX? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From sraun at fireopal.org Tue Feb 19 14:24:03 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Making POP3 Work [OT] In-Reply-To: <02021818502600.03891@nat4.dc.dan> References: <20011031222140.A18307@fireopal.org> <02021818502600.03891@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020219141746.E21147@fireopal.org> On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:50:26PM -0600, Daniel Churchill wrote: > Scott, if you're still on the list and haven't resolved this yet you'll > have to let us know details again. I got it working. I don't remember what I had to do - I do recall that I had all the necessary pieces installed, it was something user-related. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 19 15:17:59 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for In-Reply-To: <20020219182813.GI6232@fandre.com> References: <3C7296F4.1C2B484D@securecomputing.com> <20020219182813.GI6232@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020219210300.GC22588@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:28:14PM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > All posts to tclug-announcment also gets sent to tclug-list. I'd like to motion that we change that. I may not belong to the tclug-announcement list right now, but if you can keep all of the announcement stuff to the appropriate list, I'll subscribe. We're seeing enough traffice where doing so would make sense, and I agree that it'll knock down a lot of the OT flamewars about it. I wouldn't mind something like: From: blah@blee To: tclug-list@lists.mn-linux.org Subject: Reminder: tclug-announce for TCLUG and related events Just a friendly reminder that we post all TCLUG event announcements and related posts to tclug-announce. Please subscribe to this list (very low traffice and has that nice [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] tag) to keep abreast with current events in the TCLUG! List information can be found at URL.... Thanks, Blah -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/8ee5a674/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 19 16:09:22 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssl acceleration appliances Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FC3@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Is anyone here using SSL acceration appliances? These boxes sit in front of your webservers and handles all of the SSL so you don't have to run SSL on your webservers which takes up resources, and it also simplifies certificate administration since your certs don't have to exist on every server. I looked at an Intel 7110 awhile back, but I didn't like how you had to pass ALL traffic through it. In this case, it cuts off your connectivity if it fails. I know this really isn't too linux related, but given the amount of people here who work at ISP's and other such places, it seems like a good place to ask. Jay From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 19 16:11:02 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and 120GB drives References: Message-ID: <3C70BB47.2080804@ringworld.org> Kremer wrote: > I wouldn't worry about it... > I've plugged in just under 1 TB RAIDS with no problem, and as far as the The 100 GB issue was related to IDE drives and how IDE does addressing and afaik, thats been fixed for a good long time in 2.4... 2.2.19 and .20 should be fine too I think. -- Scott Dier From DCargo at marixtech.com Tue Feb 19 16:11:50 2002 From: DCargo at marixtech.com (Cargo, David) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and 120GB drives Message-ID: <960066CD690D114E830C60B43C421297760664@fd-ex-01.freedesk.com> Yours was the only reply. I'm strongly thinking about one of these systems, the only question is what kind of motherboard might be in it. But the everybody I have talked to says, at least that it's not too bad. escargo -----Original Message----- From: Kremer [mailto:kremer@ringworld.org] Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:21 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux and 120GB drives I wouldn't worry about it... I've plugged in just under 1 TB RAIDS with no problem, and as far as the OS is concerned, that's just one big fat hard drive. As long as the hardware supports it, the software shouldn't be a problem in this case. (i didn't notice any replies to this, so forgive me if i'm being repetative) - Kremer On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Cargo, David wrote: *snip* > Anybody here taken a look at this and know if popular Linux distros > will work on it? I thought I had read something about Linux not > supporting drives bigger than 100GB yet. *snip* _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From SpencerUnderground at autonomous.tv Tue Feb 19 16:12:35 2002 From: SpencerUnderground at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground@autonomous.tv) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] XF86Config-4 Debian-ppc Message-ID: <20020218160922.GA6631@autonomous.tv> I finally managed to get Debian PPC installed on my tibook. There were many hurdles to climb just to get it to boot and then install. anyway. I have X 4.1.0.1 currently in place. I have been unable to utilize the leftmost part of my screen . The resolution is set to 1024x768, that is what it has always run at in the past at full screen. I am currently downloading the cvs of XFree86 and see where that takes me. I also tried xvidtune, but it did not solve my problem.=20 Dexconf is doing something strange to the file, and I think that is most of the problem. What follows are the contents of the XF86Config-4 and the /var/log/Xfree.0.log. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them. ##################################### ### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION # XF86Config-4 (XFree86 server configuration file) generated by dexconf, the # Debian X Configuration tool, using values from the debconf database. # # Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page. # (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.) # # If you want your changes to this file preserved by dexconf, only make cha= nges # before the "### BEGIN DEBCONF SECTION" line above, and/or after the # "### END DEBCONF SECTION" line below. Section "Files" FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" EndSection Section "Module" Load "GLcore" Load "bitmap" Load "dbe" Load "ddc" Load "dri" Load "extmod" Load "freetype" Load "glx" Load "int10" Load "pex5" Load "record" Load "speedo" Load "type1" Load "vbe" Load "xie" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "keyboard" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "macintosh" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "SendCoreEvents" "true" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Generic Video Card" Driver "r128" BusID "PCI:0:16:0" Option "UseFBDev" "true" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Generic Monitor" HorizSync 30-60 VertRefresh 50-90 Option "DPMS" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Device "Generic Video Card" Monitor "Generic Monitor" DefaultDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Depth 1 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 4 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" Screen "Default Screen" InputDevice "Generic Keyboard" InputDevice "Configured Mouse" InputDevice "Generic Mouse" EndSection Section "DRI" Mode 0666 EndSection ### END DEBCONF SECTION ################### This is a pre-release version of XFree86, and is not supported in any way. Bugs may be reported to XFree86@XFree86.Org and patches submitted to fixes@XFree86.Org. Before reporting bugs in pre-release versions, please check the latest version in the XFree86 CVS repository (http://www.XFree86.Org/cvs) XFree86 Version 4.1.0.1 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6510) Release Date: 21 December 2001 If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting problems. (See http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ) Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.16-powerpc-smp ppc [ELF]=20 Module Loader present (=3D=3D) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Sun Feb 17 02:40:49 2002 (=3D=3D) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4" Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (=3D=3D) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (=3D=3D) ServerLayout "Default Layout" (**) |-->Screen "Default Screen" (0) (**) | |-->Monitor "Generic Monitor" (**) | |-->Device "Generic Video Card" (**) |-->Input Device "Generic Keyboard" (**) Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" (**) XKB: rules: "xfree86" (**) Option "XkbModel" "macintosh" (**) XKB: model: "macintosh" (**) Option "XkbLayout" "us" (**) XKB: layout: "us" (=3D=3D) Keyboard: CustomKeycode disabled (**) |-->Input Device "Configured Mouse" (**) |-->Input Device "Generic Mouse" (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (**) FontPath set to "unix/:7100,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc,/usr/lib/X11/fonts= /100dpi/:unscaled,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" (=3D=3D) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" (=3D=3D) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" (++) using VT number 7 (WW) Open APM failed (II) Module ABI versions: XFree86 ANSI C Emulation: 0.1 XFree86 Video Driver: 0.4 XFree86 XInput driver : 0.2 XFree86 Server Extension : 0.1 XFree86 Font Renderer : 0.2 (II) Loader running on linux (II) LoadModule: "bitmap" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a (II) Module bitmap: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2 (II) Loading font Bitmap (II) LoadModule: "pcidata" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libpcidata.a (II) Module pcidata: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 0.1.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex) (II) PCI: 00:0b:0: chip 106b,0020 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: 00:10:0: chip 1002,4c46 card 1002,4c46 rev 02 class 03,00,00 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: 01:0b:0: chip 106b,001f card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: 01:17:0: chip 106b,0022 card 0000,0000 rev 03 class ff,00,00 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: 01:18:0: chip 106b,0019 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 0c,03,10 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: 01:19:0: chip 106b,0019 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 0c,03,10 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: 01:1a:0: chip 104c,ac1e card 1000,0000 rev 00 class 06,07,00 hdr = 02 (II) PCI: 06:0b:0: chip 106b,001e card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,00,00 hdr = 00 (II) PCI: End of PCI scan (II) LoadModule: "scanpci" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a (II) Module scanpci: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 0.1.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) UnloadModule: "scanpci" (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 0: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,0,0), BCTRL: 0x08 (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 0 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 0 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 0 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 1: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,1,0), BCTRL: 0x08 (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 1 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 1 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 1 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 2: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,2,0), BCTRL: 0x08 (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 2 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 2 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 2 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 3: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,3,0), BCTRL: 0x00 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 3 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 3 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 3 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 4: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,4,0), BCTRL: 0x00 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 4 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 4 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 4 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 5: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,5,0), BCTRL: 0x00 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 5 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 5 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 5 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 6: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,6,0), BCTRL: 0x00 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 6 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 6 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 6 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (--) PCI:*(0:16:0) ATI Rage 128 Mobility LF rev 2, Mem @ 0xb4000000/26, 0xb= 0000000/14, I/O @ 0x0400/8, BIOS @ 0xb0020000/17 (II) Addressable bus resource ranges are [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) OS-reported resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xffffffff - 0xffffffff (0x1) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) IX[B] (II) Active PCI resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xa0001000 - 0xa0001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0xa0002000 - 0xa0002fff (0x1000) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0x80000000 - 0x8007ffff (0x80000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xb0020000 - 0xb003ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [4] -1 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B) [5] -1 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B](B) [6] -1 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IX[B](B) (II) Active PCI resource ranges after removing overlaps: [0] -1 0 0xa0001000 - 0xa0001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0xa0002000 - 0xa0002fff (0x1000) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0x80000000 - 0x8007ffff (0x80000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xb0020000 - 0xb003ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [4] -1 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B) [5] -1 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B](B) [6] -1 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IX[B](B) (II) OS-reported resource ranges after removing overlaps with PCI: [0] -1 0 0xffffffff - 0xffffffff (0x1) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) IX[B] (II) All system resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xffffffff - 0xffffffff (0x1) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xa0001000 - 0xa0001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xa0002000 - 0xa0002fff (0x1000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x80000000 - 0x8007ffff (0x80000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xb0020000 - 0xb003ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [6] -1 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B) [7] -1 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B](B) [8] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [9] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) IX[B] [10] -1 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IX[B](B) (II) LoadModule: "GLcore" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a (II) Module GLcore: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) LoadModule: "bitmap" (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a (II) Loading font Bitmap (II) LoadModule: "dbe" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdbe.a (II) Module dbe: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER (II) LoadModule: "ddc" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libddc.a (II) Module ddc: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) LoadModule: "dri" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdri.a (II) Module dri: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading sub module "drm" (II) LoadModule: "drm" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libdrm.a (II) Module drm: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension XFree86-DRI (II) LoadModule: "extmod" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libextmod.a (II) Module extmod: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension SHAPE (II) Loading extension MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD (II) Loading extension BIG-REQUESTS (II) Loading extension SYNC (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER (II) Loading extension XC-MISC (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension (II) Loading extension XFree86-Misc (II) Loading extension XFree86-DGA (II) Loading extension DPMS (II) Loading extension FontCache (II) Loading extension TOG-CUP (II) Loading extension Extended-Visual-Information (II) Loading extension XVideo (II) Loading extension XVideo-MotionCompensation (II) LoadModule: "freetype" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libfreetype.a (II) Module freetype: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.1.9 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2 (II) Loading font FreeType (II) LoadModule: "glx" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a (II) Module glx: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading sub module "GLcore" (II) LoadModule: "GLcore" (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a (II) Loading extension GLX (II) LoadModule: "int10" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libint10.a (II) Module int10: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) LoadModule: "pex5" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libpex5.a (II) Module pex5: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension X3D-PEX (II) LoadModule: "record" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/librecord.a (II) Module record: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.13.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension RECORD (II) LoadModule: "speedo" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libspeedo.a (II) Module speedo: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2 (II) Loading font Speedo (II) LoadModule: "type1" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libtype1.a (II) Module type1: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2 (II) Loading font Type1 (II) Loading font CID (II) LoadModule: "vbe" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvbe.a (II) Module vbe: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) LoadModule: "xie" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libxie.a (II) Module xie: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension XIE (II) LoadModule: "r128" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/r128_drv.o (II) Module r128: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 4.0.1 Module class: XFree86 Video Driver ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) LoadModule: "ati" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/ati_drv.o (II) Module ati: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 6.3.6 Module class: XFree86 Video Driver ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) LoadModule: "mouse" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/mouse_drv.o (II) Module mouse: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 XInput Driver ABI class: XFree86 XInput driver, version 0.2 (II) ATI: ATI driver (version 6.3.6) for chipsets: ati (II) R128: Driver for ATI Rage 128 chipsets: ATI Rage 128 RE (PCI), ATI Rage 128 RF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 RG (AGP), ATI Rage 128 RK (PCI), ATI Rage 128 RL (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Pro PD (PCI), ATI Rage 128 Pro PF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Pro PP (PCI), ATI Rage 128 Pro PR (PCI), ATI Rage 128 Mobility LE (PCI), ATI Rage 128 Mobility LF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Mobility MF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Mobility ML (AGP) (II) RADEON: Driver for ATI Radeon chipsets: ATI Radeon QD (AGP), ATI Radeon QE (AGP), ATI Radeon QF (AGP), ATI Radeon QG (AGP), ATI Radeon VE (AGP) (II) Primary Device is: PCI 00:10:0 (--) Chipset ATI Rage 128 Mobility LF (AGP) found (II) Loading sub module "r128" (II) LoadModule: "r128" (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/r128_drv.o (II) resource ranges after xf86ClaimFixedResources() call: [0] -1 0 0xffffffff - 0xffffffff (0x1) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xa0001000 - 0xa0001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xa0002000 - 0xa0002fff (0x1000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x80000000 - 0x8007ffff (0x80000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xb0020000 - 0xb003ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [6] -1 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B) [7] -1 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B](B) [8] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [9] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) IX[B] [10] -1 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IX[B](B) (II) resource ranges after probing: [0] -1 0 0xffffffff - 0xffffffff (0x1) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xa0001000 - 0xa0001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xa0002000 - 0xa0002fff (0x1000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x80000000 - 0x8007ffff (0x80000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xb0020000 - 0xb003ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [6] -1 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B) [7] -1 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B](B) [8] 0 0 0x000a0000 - 0x000affff (0x10000) MS[B] [9] 0 0 0x000b0000 - 0x000b7fff (0x8000) MS[B] [10] 0 0 0x000b8000 - 0x000bffff (0x8000) MS[B] [11] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [12] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) IX[B] [13] -1 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IX[B](B) [14] 0 0 0x000003b0 - 0x000003bb (0xc) IS[B] [15] 0 0 0x000003c0 - 0x000003df (0x20) IS[B] (II) Setting vga for screen 0. (II) Loading sub module "vgahw" (II) LoadModule: "vgahw" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a (II) Module vgahw: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 0.1.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) R128(0): PCI bus 0 card 16 func 0 (**) R128(0): Depth 16, (--) framebuffer bpp 16 (II) R128(0): Pixel depth =3D 16 bits stored in 2 bytes (16 bpp pixmaps) (=3D=3D) R128(0): Default visual is TrueColor (**) R128(0): Option "UseFBDev" "true" (=3D=3D) R128(0): RGB weight 565 (II) R128(0): Using 6 bits per RGB (8 bit DAC) (**) R128(0): Using framebuffer device (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw" (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libfbdevhw.a (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 0.0.2 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (--) R128(0): Chipset: "ATI Rage 128 Mobility LF (AGP)" (ChipID =3D 0x4c46) (--) R128(0): Linear framebuffer at 0xb4000000 (--) R128(0): MMIO registers at 0xb0000000 (--) R128(0): BIOS at 0xb0020000 (II) R128(0): Option "Display" ignored (framebuffer device determines displ= ay type) (--) R128(0): VideoRAM: 8192 kByte (128-bit SDR SGRAM 1:1) (WW) R128(0): Video BIOS not detected in PCI space! (WW) R128(0): Attempting to read Video BIOS from legacy ISA space! (WW) R128(0): Video BIOS not found! (II) R128(0): PLL parameters: rf=3D2950 rd=3D59 min=3D12500 max=3D25000; xc= lk=3D10500 (II) Loading sub module "ddc" (II) LoadModule: "ddc" (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libddc.a (=3D=3D) R128(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) (II) R128(0): Generic Monitor: Using hsync range of 30.00-60.00 kHz (II) R128(0): Generic Monitor: Using vrefresh range of 50.00-90.00 Hz (II) R128(0): Clock range: 12.50 to 250.00 MHz (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1024x768" (bad mode clock/interlace/d= oublescan) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1024x768" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1152x864" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1280x960" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1792x1344" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1792x1344" (bad mode clock/interlace/= doublescan) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1856x1392" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1856x1392" (bad mode clock/interlace/= doublescan) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (bad mode clock/interlace/= doublescan) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1400x1050" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using default mode "1400x1050" (hsync out of range) (II) R128(0): Not using mode "1152x864" (no mode of this name) (--) R128(0): Virtual size is 1024x768 (pitch 1024) (**) R128(0): Default mode "1024x768": 78.8 MHz, 60.1 kHz, 75.1 Hz (II) R128(0): Modeline "1024x768" 78.80 1024 1040 1136 1312 768 769 772= 800 +hsync +vsync (**) R128(0): Default mode "800x600": 56.3 MHz, 53.7 kHz, 85.1 Hz (II) R128(0): Modeline "800x600" 56.30 800 832 896 1048 600 601 604 631= +hsync +vsync (**) R128(0): Default mode "640x480": 36.0 MHz, 43.3 kHz, 85.0 Hz (II) R128(0): Modeline "640x480" 36.00 640 696 752 832 480 481 484 509 = -hsync -vsync (=3D=3D) R128(0): DPI set to (75, 75) (II) Loading sub module "fb" (II) LoadModule: "fb" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libfb.a (II) Module fb: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 ANSI C Emulation, version 0.1 (II) Loading sub module "ramdac" (II) LoadModule: "ramdac" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libramdac.a (II) Module ramdac: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 0.1.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) Loading sub module "xaa" (II) LoadModule: "xaa" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libxaa.a (II) Module xaa: vendor=3D"The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version =3D 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4 (II) do I need RAC? No, I don't. (II) resource ranges after preInit: [0] 0 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MS[B] [1] 0 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MS[B] [2] -1 0 0xffffffff - 0xffffffff (0x1) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0xa0001000 - 0xa0001fff (0x1000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xa0002000 - 0xa0002fff (0x1000) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0x80000000 - 0x8007ffff (0x80000) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xb0020000 - 0xb003ffff (0x20000) MX[B](B) [8] -1 0 0xb0000000 - 0xb0003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B) [9] -1 0 0xb4000000 - 0xb7ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B](B) [10] 0 0 0x000a0000 - 0x000affff (0x10000) MS[B] [11] 0 0 0x000b0000 - 0x000b7fff (0x8000) MS[B] [12] 0 0 0x000b8000 - 0x000bffff (0x8000) MS[B] [13] 0 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IS[B] [14] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [15] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x00000000 (0x1) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00000400 - 0x000004ff (0x100) IX[B](B) [17] 0 0 0x000003b0 - 0x000003bb (0xc) IS[B] [18] 0 0 0x000003c0 - 0x000003df (0x20) IS[B] [drm] failed to load kernel module "r128" (II) R128(0): [drm] drmOpen failed (EE) R128(0): [dri] DRIScreenInit failed. Disabling DRI. (II) R128(0): Memory manager initialized to (0,0) (1024,4096) (II) R128(0): Reserved area from (0,768) to (1024,770) (II) R128(0): Largest offscreen area available: 1024 x 3326 (=3D=3D) R128(0): Backing store disabled (=3D=3D) R128(0): Silken mouse enabled (II) R128(0): Using XFree86 Acceleration Architecture (XAA) Screen to screen bit blits Solid filled rectangles 8x8 mono pattern filled rectangles Indirect CPU to Screen color expansion Solid Lines Dashed Lines Scanline Image Writes Offscreen Pixmaps Setting up tile and stipple cache: 32 128x128 slots 18 256x256 slots 6 512x512 slots (II) R128(0): Acceleration enabled (II) R128(0): Using hardware cursor (scanline 1540) (II) R128(0): Largest offscreen area available: 1024 x 3324 (WW) R128(0): Option "DPMS" is not used (II) R128(0): Direct rendering disabled (II) Setting vga for screen 0. (II) Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM (II) Initializing built-in extension XInputExtension (II) Initializing built-in extension XTEST (II) Initializing built-in extension XKEYBOARD (II) Initializing built-in extension LBX (II) Initializing built-in extension XC-APPGROUP (II) Initializing built-in extension SECURITY (II) Initializing built-in extension XINERAMA (II) Initializing built-in extension XFree86-Bigfont (II) Initializing built-in extension RENDER PEXExtensionInit: Couldn't open default PEX font file Roman_M (II) Keyboard "Generic Keyboard" handled by legacy driver (**) Option "Protocol" "PS/2" (**) Configured Mouse: Protocol: "PS/2" (**) Option "CorePointer" (**) Configured Mouse: Core Pointer (**) Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" (=3D=3D) Configured Mouse: Buttons: 3 (**) Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" (**) Configured Mouse: Emulate3Buttons, Emulate3Timeout: 50 (**) Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" (**) Configured Mouse: ZAxisMapping: buttons 4 and 5 (**) Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" (**) Generic Mouse: Protocol: "ImPS/2" (**) Option "SendCoreEvents" "true" (**) Generic Mouse: always reports core events (**) Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" (=3D=3D) Generic Mouse: Buttons: 3 (**) Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" (**) Generic Mouse: Emulate3Buttons, Emulate3Timeout: 50 (**) Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" (**) Generic Mouse: ZAxisMapping: buttons 4 and 5 (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Generic Mouse" (type: MOUSE) (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Configured Mouse" (type: MOUSE) Could not init font path element unix/:7100, removing from list! AUDIT: Sun Feb 17 02:40:57 2002: 1251 X: client 2 rejected from local host AUDIT: Sun Feb 17 02:40:57 2002: 1251 X: client 4 rejected from local host AUDIT: Sun Feb 17 02:40:57 2002: 1251 X: client 3 rejected from local host GetModeLine - scrn: 0 clock: 78800 GetModeLine - hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1040 hend: 1136 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - scrn: 0 hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1040 hend: 1136 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - Succeeded ModModeLine - scrn: 0 hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1088 hend: 1184 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - Succeeded ModModeLine - scrn: 0 hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1040 hend: 1136 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - Succeeded ModModeLine - scrn: 0 hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1132 hend: 1228 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - Succeeded ModModeLine - scrn: 0 hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1040 hend: 1136 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - Succeeded ModModeLine - scrn: 0 hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1132 hend: 1228 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 ModModeLine - Succeeded GetModeLine - scrn: 0 clock: 78800 GetModeLine - hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1132 hend: 1228 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 GetModeLine - scrn: 0 clock: 78800 GetModeLine - hdsp: 1024 hbeg: 1132 hend: 1228 httl: 1312 vdsp: 768 vbeg: 769 vend: 772 vttl: 800 flags: 5 -- -*-SpencerUnderground-*- http://autonomous.tv/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/f527e22b/attachment.pgp From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Feb 19 16:13:21 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: list ettiqutte and auto-responders References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C71CC74.60305@ringworld.org> > setup an auto-responder so that it doesn't respond to mailing lists or > postmaster mails have him/her send me an email and I'd be happy to help > them out. Basically if Precedence: is bulk, ignore that mail for autoresponding, for those keeping score. -- Scott Dier From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Feb 19 16:26:43 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What TCLUG-Announce is for Message-ID: I don't think it should change. I mean I don't think we should require subscription to a separate list to receive announcements. I have read suggestions that we should have an OT list, or a newbie list, or a guru list, and I think that I prefer the simplicity and utility of just one list. That said, my preference is not a strong one. >>> chewie@wookimus.net 02/19/02 03:03PM >>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:28:14PM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > All posts to tclug-announcment also gets sent to tclug-list. I'd like to motion that we change that. I may not belong to the tclug-announcement list right now, but if you can keep all of the announcement stuff to the appropriate list, I'll subscribe. We're seeing enough traffice where doing so would make sense, and I agree that it'll knock down a lot of the OT flamewars about it. From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Feb 19 16:31:06 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssl acceleration appliances In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FC3@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FC3@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020219221214.GD22588@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 04:01:04PM -0600, Austad, Jay wrote: > I looked at an Intel 7110 awhile back, but I didn't like how you had > to pass ALL traffic through it. So why not create a linux router box with a couple interfaces. Use iptables to tag packets headed for port 80 or 443 of the web server, and use the new IP routing tools to route the traffic. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020219/0ae5d40d/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 19 16:58:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 08:20:25PM -0600 References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020219164237.S27763@real-time.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > Hey all, if you're subscribed to a mailing address and have an ISP or a > corporate mail account that does the "vacation" auto-responder please head > on over to the mailing list subscription page in question and set yourself > as "no mail" for mail man lists or "unsubscribe" yourself. Mailman is -suppose- to handle this. I'll submit a bug to the mailman list. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 19 16:59:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] list ettiqutte and auto-responders In-Reply-To: <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com>; from goldman@htc.honeywell.com on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:28:50AM -0600 References: <20020219022025.GC1276@sistina.com> <15474.24866.839144.376910@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020219164319.T27763@real-time.com> Quoting Robert P. Goldman (goldman@htc.honeywell.com): > Could this at all be our fault? Should we be marking the list mails > as "Bulk"? In the old days that's what kept my vacation mail from > spamming.... Maybe this person's expecting the TCLUG-list to be bulk.... X-BeenThere: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Precedence: bulk -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sextus at visi.com Tue Feb 19 17:02:18 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssl acceleration appliances In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FC3@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FC3@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020219225342.GA66977@visi.com> ON Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 04:01:04PM -0600, Austad, Jay wrote: > Is anyone here using SSL acceration appliances? These boxes sit in front of > your webservers and handles all of the SSL so you don't have to run SSL on > your webservers which takes up resources, and it also simplifies certificate > administration since your certs don't have to exist on every server. Why don't you just set up an SSL proxy server that sits between the client and your web farm? -- Michael From clay at fandre.com Tue Feb 19 17:15:44 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Stuff at Micro Center In-Reply-To: <1014146538.3812.0.camel@elgato> References: <20020218215424.A3322@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <1014146538.3812.0.camel@elgato> Message-ID: <20020219230629.GA15242@fandre.com> I was just there today and got the last Ultimate Solitare, and the 2nd last Railroad Tycoon II. (unless they have more in the back) So all that was left was a Railroad Tycoon II. On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, John Scherer wrote: > Being new to the area and way out in Woodbury, where the heck is this > place, and is there anything left? > > -John > > > On Mon, 2002-02-18 at 21:54, Jim Kaufman wrote: > > Well, to change the subject from TCPC and Linux... > > > > I picked up a copy of Eric's Ultimate Solitaire for Linux at Computer > > Micro Center today. I felt a bit guilty buying it. It only cost $1.33. > > I'm going to install it now. Bye. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Tue Feb 19 18:19:02 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] turned off by new users? References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> <20020219052756.GC16523@wookimus.net> <20020219150827.GB16327@sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C72E842.85A6136@attbroadband.com> Ben Lutgens wrote: > I just got turned off of this by too many bad experiences. I helped a > person who wanted to use linux get a piece of hardware setup and do some > other things for two hours. I tried to teach the individual what I was > doing and so-forth, after a while I noticed that glazed in their eye that > said "I'm not really interested, you're boring me" now the person is asking > me all sorts of question and shows no will to learn what-so-ever (this has > happened to me alot lately) and I ask myself two questions: > > 1.) Why does this person feel the need to use linux? > 2.) Why did I waste my time helping? > Those are good questions and perhaps they should be answered before you invest your time in worthless pursuits but I think its fair to distinguish the people you are referencing from people who will expend the time and energy to go to an organized training seminar. You don't need to fight every battle in order to win the war. The success of Linux certainly has some bearing on your own growth potential. You might argue that Linux belongs in the server market but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that NT server would never have existed without windows desktop. For many social and psychological reasons the two environments are closely intertwined. Many people actually believed the GUI was a simplification of the computing environment because they don't understand the complex architetures required to support those GUI's. Companies dumped their data centers and their technical staff and bought a whole bunch of PC's and they shifted all that cost to local departments so it looked like a great cost saving. Of course now days many companies are struggling to get back to centralized management. From where I sit Linux has a better position than windows for thin clients and imbedded devices that will likely provide much of tomorrows user interface. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From johndmiller at mn.mediaone.net Tue Feb 19 19:29:37 2002 From: johndmiller at mn.mediaone.net (John Miller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] lm-sensors Message-ID: <200202200127.g1K1Rkb10996@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I am having lots of trouble compile lm_sensors 2.6.2. I have kernel 2.4.17. The source is located in /home/john. I have changed some of the varibles in the Makefile to point to there but I think I am missing other things. This is a small fraction of a giant list of these error Makefile:200: kernel/busses/i2c-ali1535.d: No such file or directory Makefile:200: kernel/busses/i2c-ali15x3.d: No such file or directory Makefile:200: kernel/busses/i2c-amd756.d: No such file or directory I am assuming that the 200 in the above snippet is refering to the line in the Makefile. Here is a section of code from that file. # Include all makefiles for sub-modules INCLUDEFILES := include $(patsubst %,%/Module.mk,$(SRCDIRS)) ifneq ($(MAKECMDGOALS),clean) include $(INCLUDEFILES) <=== line 200 endif Thanks for the help John Miller From chrome at real-time.com Tue Feb 19 22:01:02 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: ; from gmcdavid@winternet.com on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 05:22:52PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020219215606.B906@real-time.com> > and realized that I had used the same machine at Carleton College. > IIRC, the IBM 1130, mentioned on the web page, was marketed in part as a > replacement for the 1620. the closest I've come to one of these things was when I saw a picture of the IBM 1135 that was at Winona State when my parents were there. honest-to-God Star Trek blinky lights and all. the first real IBM-type PC I owned was a cast-off XT that the Winona State sysadmin had been using as a serial console for his VAX 11/730. was the most tricked-out XT I've ever heard of... 640K RAM, 20MB Half-Height HDD, 1.44MB ramdrive (a full-length 8-bit ISA card with its own external power supply), hercules graphics card, and both a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drive. had an amber monitor, but even with the fancy herc graphics card, I could watch individual pixels being drawn if I tried to use compupic to display an image. literally took 10 minutes to draw a 200K .gif image to the screen. got a stack of boxes of documentation with it, including a few compilers (pascal, SNOBOL, APL). even got a 2400bps Hayes modem with it, so I could dial in to the school's modems and check my mail (in between connection drops and the hourly system lockups, that is). eventually sold it for $5 to a friend who needed a computer. in some ways I regret not having it; but then I realize it's one less piece of old junk to haul around. :) yeah, I know, I'm a youngster. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Feb 19 22:55:05 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BSA In-Reply-To: <20020219215606.B906@real-time.com> References: <20020219215606.B906@real-time.com> Message-ID: <02021922473200.10424@edith> I must be bored tonight. I just reported myself to the BSA for running Linux on all my boxen. They had some points in the "Tips from the BSA" section of the site that made me feel I should report myself. They say to "Be wary of compilations of software titles from different publishers on a single disk". I suppose Slackware 8.0 or an iso image of Debian counts (hundreds if not thousands of titles on a disk!), so I turned myself in. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Tue Feb 19 23:10:05 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BSA References: <20020219215606.B906@real-time.com> <02021922473200.10424@edith> Message-ID: <002301c1baa5$25a7ab00$6600a8c0@destro> those bastards are the last group of people on earth I'd want to have any of my information, regardless of full compiance. That org is a complete joke. They are just one of microsofts dirty little fingers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Black" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:47 PM Subject: [TCLUG] BSA > I must be bored tonight. I just reported myself to the BSA for running Linux > on all my boxen. They had some points in the "Tips from the BSA" section of > the site that made me feel I should report myself. > > They say to "Be wary of compilations of software titles from different > publishers on a single disk". > > I suppose Slackware 8.0 or an iso image of Debian counts (hundreds if not > thousands of titles on a disk!), so I turned myself in. > > Kelly Black > KB0GBJ > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Wed Feb 20 00:00:02 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Protocol suggestions Message-ID: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> I've been observing the list for awhile an I've tried to distill the essence of what appear to be the rules of protocol for this list. I recognize one rule of conduct on this list which is very consistent. Profanity, and racial, ethnic, or gender slurs have no appropriate context and do not belong on the TCLUG list. You are particularly rude and ignorant if you post these things in a public forum with your name attached to them. The rest of this email is satire and very sharp. Forewarning is fair warning. This may be the last time I'm allowed to post to the list. I've also thrown in a mission statement as a bonus. The only thought I ask of you is why protocols might have value. You might think a bunch of sysadmins might understand that already. If anyone wants to ask I'll give you my answer. Please exit now lest you be drawn into a senseless debate. TCLUG Mission statement TCLUG exists for the purpose of exchanging email among members who are, were, or might sometime in the future have some interest in Linux unless they are, were, or might be sometime in the future a windows user in which case Linux would not be appropriate for them. We could care less about anyone suspecting we might be a group of dedicated professionals, especially windows users who will never understand our special need for the command line and remote administration. LIST PROTOCOL 1) Any posting to the list is exceptable as long as you don't mind being flamed for it. 2) It is OK to flame any posting to the list as long you don't mind being reprimanded for it. 3) Bad grammar, poor sentence structure, and indecipherable spelling are a natural consequence of using email too much for communication - get used to it. 4) Any posting that someone might think is not about Linux should be marked OT or off topic or something similar. 5) If you feel it is essential to terminate a thread simply place the word "Hitler" somewhere in the body of your text. This will not work but at least you have done your part. 6) If you need help with a problem describe it in as little detail as possible. This will make others feel less obligated to provide a response. Even better just market it OT or off topic or something similar. Where you got the idea that Tclug existed to help people resolve problems is already beyond me. 7) If you absolutely feel you have to reminisce or explain how you spouse doesn't understand you don't forget to mention how you always dreamed about getting linux to run on that old toaster. This way no one will think you are off topic or you could avoid the problem by marking it OT or off topic or something similar. 8) Post frequently so no one will think you are a lurker. Don't worry about having anything relevant to say, no one else does either. Try expressing some passionate feeling you have about linux, it's a spiritual healing, or you could avoid the problem by marking it OT or off topic or something similar. 9) If you dislike a posting for any reason make up a protocol rule, make it clear that everyone knows the rule, and flame the offender. Remember this action is not really related to linux so remember to mark it OT or off topic or something similar. 10) If you have a question, and suspect that someone might consider it stupid don't post it to the list. Naturally "someone" WILL consider it stupid so do not post questions. We do not have a SQ designation that will allow people to filter it automatically. OT or off topic or something similar simply will not work in this case since many people want to read those emails without having to deal with your stupid question. 11) If you believe things such as goals, missions, etiquette, courtesy, or protocol belong in a group of this size find yourself another list. If you want some one who cares go to Microsoft. They WANT people to believe they care about you and they will gladly take your money. And if anyone can't read the characters that go off the left of the screen forget about them. they probably are not important anyway. Or maybe you could change you browser settings. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 20 01:44:02 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Protocol suggestions In-Reply-To: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> References: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020220073036.GB27475@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 11:44:35PM -0600, Paul Overby wrote: > TCLUG Mission statement > TCLUG exists for the purpose of exchanging email among members who are, > were, or might > sometime in the future have some interest in Linux unless they are, > were, or might be sometime > in the future a windows user in which case Linux would not be And if you insist on using lines larger than 80 columns, expect to get flamed for it! * Chewie pulls out his flamethrower and douses Paul a good one. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/3a4b312a/attachment.pgp From jack at jacku.com Wed Feb 20 07:12:45 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Protocol suggestions In-Reply-To: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> References: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <02022007023400.00777@geezer> On Tuesday 19 February 2002 23:44, Paul Overby wrote: Shouldn't this have been marked OT or off-topic or something similar? ;-) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Feb 20 08:29:01 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Protocol suggestions Message-ID: Paul, Where did you get these?!? These are supposed to be secret! How can we flame people for not following the rules if they already KNOW them?!? >>> xpoverby@attbroadband.com 02/19/02 11:44PM >>> >10)...We do not have a SQ > designation that will allow people to filter it automatically. I like this. Can we use this? I would post quite a few. >And if anyone can't read the characters that go off the left of the >screen forget about them. they probably >are not important anyway. They go off to the right, so they must be important. >Or maybe you could change you browser >settings. Browser? :-) Have a great day, Troy From jspinti at dartdist.com Wed Feb 20 08:53:54 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest--or is it MSN--DSL article (OT) References: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c1ba1c$b4b50f60$47646496@dart> Gotta avoid those flames :) More joy for Qwest and MSN: http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/1636159.html James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Wed Feb 20 09:20:35 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT they go off to the right References: Message-ID: <3C73BC79.383F9E06@attbroadband.com> "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > They go off to the right, so they must be > important. I wondered if anyone would catch that. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Feb 20 09:22:20 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] needed: IMAP server advice. Message-ID: <200202201515.g1KFFUb27942@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> For demonstration/testing purposes, I'm going to try to setup an IMAP server with Outlook on the client using the Bynari InsightConnector to provide groupware functionality. I hope to get some opinions from TCLUG members on the different open/closed source IMAP servers on the market. Any recommendations for these applications? Thanks... From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 20 09:24:49 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest--or is it MSN--DSL article (OT) In-Reply-To: <00ab01c1ba1c$b4b50f60$47646496@dart> References: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> <00ab01c1ba1c$b4b50f60$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020220151620.GB2754@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 08:41:39AM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >Gotta avoid those flames :) > >http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/1636159.html Can we add thread hi-jacking to the list of offenses? -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/4ff04bbb/attachment.pgp From dsherman at real-time.com Wed Feb 20 09:38:35 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest--or is it MSN--DSL article (OT) In-Reply-To: <00ab01c1ba1c$b4b50f60$47646496@dart> References: <3C7337C3.9038D042@attbroadband.com> <00ab01c1ba1c$b4b50f60$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <1014218687.4345.7.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> I sure am glad I switched my DSL service to Real-Time last summer, when I first heard about the MSN change. :-) Dave Sherman, loyal customer On Wed, 2002-02-20 at 08:41, James Spinti wrote: > Gotta avoid those flames :) > > More joy for Qwest and MSN: > > http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/1636159.html -- Beware the wrath of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/201aad55/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Feb 20 09:40:31 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020219150827.GB16327@sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:08:27AM -0600 References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> <20020219052756.GC16523@wookimus.net> <20020219150827.GB16327@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020220092756.H5596@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:08:27AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: [snip] > I just got turned off of this by too many bad experiences. I helped a > person who wanted to use linux get a piece of hardware setup and do some > other things for two hours. I tried to teach the individual what I was > doing and so-forth, after a while I noticed that glazed in their eye that > said "I'm not really interested, you're boring me" now the person is asking > me all sorts of question and shows no will to learn what-so-ever (this has > happened to me alot lately) and I ask myself two questions: > > 1.) Why does this person feel the need to use linux? > 2.) Why did I waste my time helping? > > And now I have a half-dozen or so people who need so much help I can rarely > concentrate on my own stuff without answering very basic questions. I also get this feeling a lot, I help run #linux on EFNet so we get plenty of people unwilling to RTFM. I've also got a roommate who's going to KRS to learn how to be a solaris administrator (he must have seen the 'make big money in the IT field' commercials). I made him agree before I started helping him with his linux system that he would attempt two things before coming to me for help: 1. Reading the documentation 2. Search google for help I informed him before hand that I would absolutely ignore him until he had tried both of the above and it seems to be working out pretty well, he does attempt to understand the documentation, and a quick tutorial on using google went a long way with him (perhaps this would be a good presentation). He is currently using linux for everything except a few windows games, I even got some of his games working in linux (rtcw, Quake3..), he loves Tux Racer, Chromium and the rest of the games that came with Red Hat 7.2, and he has been using gnumeric and AbiWord for his more productive computer time. > Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > Sistina Software Inc. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Wed Feb 20 09:42:16 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SQ on tmda Message-ID: <3C73C171.A2543705@attbroadband.com> TechRepublic says Tagged Message Delivery Agent (TMDA) is a common method implemented by Linux users to avoid spam in their inboxes. http://software.libertine.org/tmda/ Anyone ever tried this method? -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 09:43:03 2002 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Protocol suggestions Message-ID: <20020220153253.30313.qmail@web10201.mail.yahoo.com> >I've been observing the list for awhile an I've >tried to distill the essence of what >appear to be the rules of protocol for this list. What you've posted is destined to be a classic. An interesting MN phenomona: Cabin Fever. I'd love to see a study done charting the "temperature" of an email list vs time of the year. IMHO, taking a bit from Ward Cunningham's wiki... It's Ward's wiki. As long has he finds it useful, he'll keep dedicating resources to it. I'd guess that Realtime and the other folks who make this list happen probably have the same attitude. As long as they get some sort of personal enlightment from this list, they'll keep it going. Nuff of that. Oh, yeah, and you forgot to put an OT in your subject line. May a fish fall into your ear. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From troy.johnson at HEALTH.STATE.MN.US Wed Feb 20 09:45:46 2002 From: troy.johnson at HEALTH.STATE.MN.US (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qwest--or is it MSN--DSL article (OT) Message-ID: No. :-) >>> blutgens@sistina.com 02/20/02 09:16AM >>> >>On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 08:41:39AM -0600, James Spinti wrote: >>Gotta avoid those flames :) >>http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/1636159.html >Can we add thread hi-jacking to the list of offenses? From natecars at real-time.com Wed Feb 20 09:56:37 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BSA In-Reply-To: <02021922473200.10424@edith> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Kelly Black wrote: > I must be bored tonight. I just reported myself to the BSA for > running Linux on all my boxen. They had some points in the "Tips from > the BSA" section of the site that made me feel I should report myself. > > They say to "Be wary of compilations of software titles from different > publishers on a single disk". > > I suppose Slackware 8.0 or an iso image of Debian counts (hundreds if > not thousands of titles on a disk!), so I turned myself in. *Watches the BSA guys look at your X session and say "It's got graphics, it's gotta be windows! You have an illegal BETA version!"* -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From robertl at ccbr.umn.edu Wed Feb 20 09:59:09 2002 From: robertl at ccbr.umn.edu (Robert Leduc) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: <20020218184458.0472c6d5.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > > in my first paid programming job. > > There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange > concatenation you're coming up with? > > -- Probably. It's hard for me to keep all of these numbers straight in my dotage. R From jeffr at odeon.net Wed Feb 20 09:59:51 2002 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] needed: IMAP server advice. In-Reply-To: <200202201515.g1KFFUb27942@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: I'm fond of the Cyrus IMAP server. http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/ I've also heard good things about Courier IMAP. http://www.inter7.com/courierimap/ Jeff On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > For demonstration/testing purposes, I'm going to try to setup an IMAP server > with Outlook on the client using the Bynari InsightConnector to provide > groupware functionality. I hope to get some opinions from TCLUG members on > the different open/closed source IMAP servers on the market. Any > recommendations for these applications? Thanks... > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 20 10:28:01 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to play music on Linux box! In-Reply-To: <20020220092756.H5596@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020218200038.GA1336@sistina.com> <20020218164409.250325cd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020219001121.GA15144@sistina.com> <20020219052756.GC16523@wookimus.net> <20020219150827.GB16327@sistina.com> <20020220092756.H5596@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020220161228.GA3889@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:27:56AM -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >the IT field' commercials). I made him agree before I started helping him with >his linux system that he would attempt two things before coming to me for help: > >1. Reading the documentation >2. Search google for help This is a fantastic idea! >He is currently using linux for everything except a few windows games, I even >got some of his games working in linux (rtcw, Quake3..), he loves Tux Racer, >Chromium and the rest of the games that came with Red Hat 7.2, and he has Nice. >been using gnumeric and AbiWord for his more productive computer time. Funny, I use /bin/bash and /usr/bin/perl for my more productive computer time ;-) -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/948f47f7/attachment.pgp From jts at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 20 10:31:27 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Protocol suggestions In-Reply-To: <200202200800.g1K804S26684@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: You make some good points. I think a disturbing proportion of the traffic on this list tends to be counterproductive, or even hostile, toward the general advancement of linux (worse than being OT, IMHO). In my opinion, it would be good for TCLUG to adopt a mission statement akin to the mission statement of a local gaming convention I'm somewhat involved with (http://www.conofthenorth.org/about.html - hosted at Real-Time, BTW). Maybe something like the following would be appropriate. TCLUG is a volunteer run non-profit organization formed for the purpose of fostering a sense of community among linux users, promoting the use of linux, and providing the linux community with the best possible environment for growth. Joel PS. Tabs are evil. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 Paul Overby wrote: > TCLUG Mission statement > TCLUG exists for the purpose of exchanging email among members > who are, were, or might sometime in the future have some interest > in Linux unless they are, were, or might be sometime in the future > a windows user in which case Linux would not be appropriate for > them. We could care less about anyone suspecting we might be a > group of dedicated professionals, especially windows users who > will never understand our special need for the command line and > remote administration. From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 20 10:32:10 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] needed: IMAP server advice. In-Reply-To: <200202201515.g1KFFUb27942@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200202201515.g1KFFUb27942@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020220162238.GB3889@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:14:21AM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: >For demonstration/testing purposes, I'm going to try to setup an IMAP server >with Outlook on the client using the Bynari InsightConnector to provide >groupware functionality. I hope to get some opinions from TCLUG members on >the different open/closed source IMAP servers on the market. Any >recommendations for these applications? Thanks... Please, please, please document your efforts and either post them, or prepare a presentation on this subject. This is a service we've all been wanting to provide to our users (well, most of us) and if we can get this to work we'll have overcome a monstrous obstacle! I was within weeks of breaking down and getting an M$ Server in here to do exchange just for the shared folder, calendaring bit. Now on to our regularly scheduled post: I like courier-imap for it's simplicity and ease of use. But alas it doesn't support the ACLs functionality that that this "plugin" requires to operate (at least to the best of my knowledge). I had used cyrus before that and wasn't too fond of it as it didn't use the system account information and required this wierd "shell-like" interface to manage. Adding a user required you to "create" thier inbox and set permissions on it (needed for the extended ACLs). It wasn't long before i decided all I needed was a simple IMAPD that would speak TLS so I switched. I never really got the hang of cyrus and I'm sure it's quite powerful but it really added a level of complexity that I didn't need. I also tried uw-imap for a while but abandonded it after I saw exploit upon exploit upon exploit on it. It's nearly as bad it seems as wu-ftpd... Now with this recent development from Bynari i've decided to undertake this task again from the deep dark corners of my machine room where noone knows about the project. I don't really want to drop them a hint saying we may have this functionality cause they'll bother me with too many phone calls wonder "When will it be done?" I'm going to try and slap a box together today to start testing on so if you'd like to collaborate our efforts let me know and we can correspond off-list untill we reach a resolution. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/31ca3074/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 20 10:54:46 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02022010413700.10625@edith> I don't think Hitler owned a System/36 or System/38 did he? Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 20 February 2002 09:39, Robert Leduc wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > > David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > Robert Leduc writes: > > > > I'm old enough to ask if you mean the 386 Intel chip or > > > > the old IBM 386 mainframe. > > > > > > That's too old for me. 386? I know of the 360 and 370, of course. > > > Descendants, a couple of generations later, of the 1401 I programmed > > > in my first paid programming job. > > > > There were the System/36 and the System/38. Is there some strange > > concatenation you're coming up with? > > > > -- > > Probably. It's hard for me to keep all of these numbers > straight in my dotage. > > R From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Feb 20 11:03:29 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssl acceleration appliances Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FD6@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Why don't you just set up an SSL proxy server that sits > between the client > and your web farm? Because I don't want to send all traffic through it. Only about 1/4 of our traffic is SSL. I'd need to put Gig interfaces on the SSL device to send all traffic through it. Plus, by sending all traffic through it, it becomes a single point of failure. What I'd like to do, is peel off any traffic with a destination port of 443 and be able to send it through the SSL appliance. The problem with this is, the SSL appliance is simply a layer 2 bridge which inspects layer 4 traffic and plays around with port 443 stuff. It doesn't have an ip that I can "route" to, it has to be done on a layer 2 level. I can turn on layer 3 switching on my switch, and maybe do some magic with that, but I don't think cisco's layer 3 switching stuff has enough functionality to do what I want. Some of the SSL appliances I looked at actually had a virtual ip with several nodes behind it for each cluster, but I'd like to stay away from this if possible because I already have a load balancing system which does this, and I don't want to add another layer of it. I can't have two separate ip's for ssl and non-ssl traffic either, each virtual server on my current system must have both a port 80 and a port 443. In any case, I'll deal with this when I have some equipment to test with. My priority now is to find something that will work, and has a decent pricetag on it. So if anyone knows of anything, let me know. I've looked at Alteon, Intel, Sonicwall, and Galea so far. Jay > > -- > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Wed Feb 20 11:24:45 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mission Statement References: Message-ID: <3C73D9B5.6FF52945@attbroadband.com> Joel T Schneider wrote: > > In my opinion, it would be good for TCLUG to adopt a mission statement > akin to the mission statement of a local gaming convention I'm somewhat > involved with (http://www.conofthenorth.org/about.html - hosted at > Real-Time, BTW). Maybe something like the following would be appropriate. > > TCLUG is a volunteer run non-profit organization formed for the > purpose of fostering a sense of community among linux users, promoting > the use of linux, and providing the linux community with the best > possible environment for growth. I like it. Can we get this posted. Have some kind of review / feedback / survey and make it a permanent part of the web site. I for one wouldn't mind referencing TCLUG as a professional association when I'm trying to "sell" people on Linux. > PS. Tabs are evil. See my next post I'm a word junkie -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Feb 20 11:48:23 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] needed: IMAP server advice. In-Reply-To: <20020220162238.GB3889@sistina.com> References: <200202201515.g1KFFUb27942@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020220162238.GB3889@sistina.com> Message-ID: <200202201734.g1KHYwb01742@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Wednesday 20 February 2002 10:22 am, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Please, please, please document your efforts and either post them, or > prepare a presentation on this subject. > I'm going to try and slap a box together today to start testing on so if > you'd like to collaborate our efforts let me know and we can correspond > off-list untill we reach a resolution. I will certainly do what I can to offer my experiences. However, I must warn you, I have little experience with Linux based IMAP servers. I have been doing a fair amount of research into this matter prior to the announcement by Bynari, but have not implemented anything "real" yet. I assist in the admin duties of our entire network, including the Exchange server. Because of consolidation we may eventually move to a Novell Netware/Groupwise system with a plugin for Outlook. I would like to avoid that (I don't know shit about Novell). This is a "proof of concept" experiment I plan to demonstrate and hope to implement. While Outlook is bloated and 90% of users simply use the email client capabilities, it is a "standard" in our work environment. For those other 10% of users I need to support groupware. I will begin work on this project in the next week or so. Thanks for your replies... From sextus at visi.com Wed Feb 20 12:26:01 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssl acceleration appliances In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FD6@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514FD6@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020220180847.GA70429@visi.com> ON Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:58:34AM -0600, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Why don't you just set up an SSL proxy server that sits > > between the client > > and your web farm? > > Because I don't want to send all traffic through it. Only about 1/4 of our > traffic is SSL. I'd need to put Gig interfaces on the SSL device to send > all traffic through it. Plus, by sending all traffic through it, it becomes > a single point of failure. I meant to suggest that you forward only https/443 traffic to the SSL proxy using your load balancer, if such a feature is provided. Add SSL proxies, for redundancy and server load, as needed. It might be too expensive but I think it should work. You could replace the SSL proxies with SSL accelerator boxes and additional server NICs if you wanted. Otherwise, you could consider the PCI SSL coprocessors. These two probably don't scale well. The easiest thing to do is probably to get some case studies from the vendors and figure out why everybody else wants a bridge and you want a router. -- Michael From dmblevins at mediaone.net Wed Feb 20 13:20:18 2002 From: dmblevins at mediaone.net (David Blevins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! Message-ID: chown -R guest.users .* If you don't see the mistake right of the bat, just remember .* also matches '..' I can't believe I did that! Argh! I was preparing a guest samba share and was trying to chown all the contents to the guest account. With the command 'chown -R guest.users *' hidden files are not chown'ed, hence the second (stupid) command I executed. Fortunately, I caught the mistake before my whole system was chown'ed. The directories affected were: /usr/bin/* /usr/lib/* I have a standard RH 7.2 distribution with everything installed. I don't have another system to compare the directories to. If anyone knows of an simple way to fix this, I'm all ears! Otherwise, if someone with a full RH 7.2. distribution would be so kind as to send me the information from their machine, I could write a script to chown those directories based on that. ls -laR /usr/bin | gzip -9c > usr-bin.gz ls -laR /usr/lib | gzip -9c > usr-lib.gz Then just send me the usr-bin.gz and usr-lib.gz. If you know of a better way to send the info, that is fine too. Thanks in advance!!! David From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 20 13:36:14 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020220192359.GA974@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:10:57PM -0600, David Blevins wrote: > >ls -laR /usr/bin | gzip -9c > usr-bin.gz >ls -laR /usr/lib | gzip -9c > usr-lib.gz > >Then just send me the usr-bin.gz and usr-lib.gz. If you know of a better way >to send the info, that is fine too. > How old is the box? Anything important on it? Get the data off with a rescue disk and reinstall. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/26f51293/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 20 13:59:53 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020220194803.GB7212@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:10:57PM -0600, David Blevins wrote: > chown -R guest.users .* ROFL!! Next time use find: bash$ find -exec chown guest:users \{\} \; I would also use the ':' separator between user:guest. There was a discussions about this on debian-devel about the base-passwd package, I believe. It has to do with the idea that 'lastname.firstname' (or some such use of the period) can potentially be a legitimate account name. Using the ':' character is the POSIX way of specifying it, I believe. The '.' notation in chown is provided as a backward compabitility thing. I should try to find the actual references for this. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) From nate at techie.com Wed Feb 20 14:15:08 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020220200532.GA31684@candle.dhs.org> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:10:57PM -0600, David Blevins wrote: > chown -R guest.users .* > > If you don't see the mistake right of the bat, just remember .* also matches > '..' [...] > I have a standard RH 7.2 distribution with everything installed. This is one thing that RPM can do well, restore permissions. A snippet from `rpm --help` --setperms - set the file permissions to those in the package database using the same package specification options as -q --setugids - set the file owner and group to those in the package database using the same package specification options as -q So to get everything fixed (the way Redhat wants it) you can do this: rpm --setperms -a rpm --setugids -a Note that if you did change any permissions anywhere on packaged files, you'll lose them. Nate From esper at sherohman.org Wed Feb 20 14:15:55 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! In-Reply-To: <20020220194803.GB7212@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:48:03PM -0600 References: <20020220194803.GB7212@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020220140608.E21652@sherohman.org> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:48:03PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:10:57PM -0600, David Blevins wrote: > > chown -R guest.users .* > > ROFL!! Next time use find: > > bash$ find -exec chown guest:users \{\} \; Or: chown -R guest:users * .[^.]* -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From list at slushpupie.com Wed Feb 20 14:23:01 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! In-Reply-To: <20020220194803.GB7212@wookimus.net> References: <20020220194803.GB7212@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020220201639.C5C719052@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> On Wednesday 20 February 2002 01:48 pm, you wrote: > On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:10:57PM -0600, David Blevins wrote: > > chown -R guest.users .* > > ROFL!! Next time use find: > > bash$ find -exec chown guest:users \{\} \; wouldn't: bash$ cd .. bash$ chown -R guest:users that_dir be a little easier? I think that takes care of the hidden files too. > > I would also use the ':' separator between user:guest. There was a > discussions about this on debian-devel about the base-passwd package, I > believe. It has to do with the idea that 'lastname.firstname' (or some > such use of the period) can potentially be a legitimate account name. > Using the ':' character is the POSIX way of specifying it, I believe. > The '.' notation in chown is provided as a backward compabitility thing. > > I should try to find the actual references for this. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Feb 20 14:56:01 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I can't believe I did that!! Message-ID: I like those, but a lazy way to just get the dot files is: chown -R guest:users .??* This will not match single character dot files, but I don't have too many of those. >>> esper@sherohman.org 02/20/02 02:06PM >>> >>On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:48:03PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:10:57PM -0600, David Blevins wrote: >>> chown -R guest.users .* >> bash$ find -exec chown guest:users \{\} \; >chown -R guest:users * .[^.]* From jspinti at dartdist.com Wed Feb 20 16:54:02 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) Message-ID: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP printer repair company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went through 80% of the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Feb 20 18:05:55 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) In-Reply-To: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> References: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020220175726.G30851@fireopal.org> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 04:44:29PM -0600, James Spinti wrote: > Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP printer repair > company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went through 80% of > the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( > > Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... > > Thanks, > > James Spinti > jspinti at dartdist dot com > 952-368-3278 ext. 396 > 952-368-3255 (fax) CNT uses EDP. (I tried to reply straight to you, I really did. But I got back an invalid MX record bounce.) -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From houle at citilink.com Wed Feb 20 18:23:20 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TC/PC Audio Sig (Music on Linux) Message-ID: The TC/PC Audio Sig. this February 19th meeting (Tues) will be devoted to learning how to use a Linux box to play music. Jim Kaufman from the Twin Cities Linux Users group has agreed to host this month. Please join us for what should be an interesting evening. It will be in Room 124 on the lower level at 2850 Metro Drive in Bloomington. As usual it will begin at 7 PM. Meetings are free and open to the public so please bring a friend. More information as to location can be found on the TC/PC web site at: http://www.tcpc.com Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group 952-883-0471 http://www.tcpc.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From fred at webblake.net Wed Feb 20 18:24:00 2002 From: fred at webblake.net (Frederick Hathaway) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Urgent Request. Message-ID: I have a company that is looking for someone to fix thier Linux/Qmail server today. Anyone looking for work? Frederick Hathaway Technology Director Webb Lake Software, LLC 2214 Fifth Street Suite 1b White Bear Lake MN 55110 http://www.webblake.net begin 666 Frederick Hathaway.vcf M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..DAA=&AA=V%Y.T9R961E So I haven't been paying attention to the list for a while. Whee. Two things: apt-get for RPM rules. I upgraded in place my redhat 7.0 to 7.2. Is there any reason why our RedHat mirror isn't apt-gettable? I looked around in the archives here and in redhat-mirror and didn't spot any discussion as to why not, nor any big want for it to be done either... C'mon redhatters? Anyone else want it? Also, the latest GAIM rules. I've got ICQ, AIM, MSN, and Jabber all in one client. However I don't know anyone else using jabber. I'm NinjaSeg on jabber.org. Any tclugers using it? It'd be neat if the members list had an option to put in your jabber and other IM IDs and search for others... From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 20 20:00:00 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stuff In-Reply-To: <3C743820.3090903@haxxed.mine.nu> References: <3C743820.3090903@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020221015008.GB1189@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 05:58:24PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: >So I haven't been paying attention to the list for a while. Whee. Two >things: Welcome back. Where the heck is that bogus "resume" you used to have? I was telling someone about it the other day and tried to find it. >apt-get for RPM rules. I upgraded in place my redhat 7.0 to 7.2. Is >there any reason why our RedHat mirror isn't apt-gettable? I looked >around in the archives here and in redhat-mirror and didn't spot any >discussion as to why not, nor any big want for it to be done either... I'm pretty sure we could get Bob to setup a cron job to recreate the packages.gz files after a sync. I think that's all it would take. >C'mon redhatters? Anyone else want it? Yes. Take a look at http://freshrpms.net. >Also, the latest GAIM rules. I've got ICQ, AIM, MSN, and Jabber all in >one client. However I don't know anyone else using jabber. I'm NinjaSeg >on jabber.org. Any tclugers using it? It'd be neat if the members list >had an option to put in your jabber and other IM IDs and search for >others... I agree. Didn't you used to be a debian user too? -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/e811b308/attachment.pgp From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Wed Feb 20 21:53:52 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stuff In-Reply-To: <3C743820.3090903@haxxed.mine.nu> References: <3C743820.3090903@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: <1014252569.5089.56.camel@yafa> What are the differences between up2date and apt-get or perhaps a better comparison; apt-get and RedCarpet from Ximian? Does apt-get have a wider net? Also, I just ran GAIM and it only has functionality to log you onto the AOL network. Did I get the wrong impression that it also can log you into MSN, and ICQ? -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/a22794e9/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Feb 20 22:19:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gnome-2.0 Message-ID: <20020220221057.S28355@real-time.com> The newgroups rave about gnome-2.0 and it's truetype fonts. So, I installed it and I'm not seeing anything spectacular. I'm I just missing it? I'm I too old and my eyes aren't working? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Feb 20 22:37:05 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] quake3, voodoo3 XFree4 Message-ID: Ok, I'm sure someone has to have solved this before, I just can't get the right search on google. I've got XFree86-4.1.0 installed along with the 3dfx drivers. 3Ddiag says I've got everything configured ok and the 3D screensavers in xscreensaver work fine. Now I'm trying quake3 and I get the following: ----- Client Initialization Complete ----- ----- R_Init ----- ...loading libGL.so: QGL_Init: Can't load libGL.so from /etc/ld.so.conf or current dir: libglide2x.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory failed ...loading libMesaVoodooGL.so: QGL_Init: Can't load libMesaVoodooGL.so from /etc/ld.so.conf or current dir: libglide2x.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory failed ----- CL_Shutdown ----- RE_Shutdown( 1 ) ----------------------- ----- CL_Shutdown ----- ----------------------- Sys_Error: GLimp_Init() - could not load OpenGL subsystem Now I don't have libglide2x.so on my system anywhere, only libglide3x.so. I tried linking to 3x and that puked too with some undefined reference errors. Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Thanks. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From schanno at tcfreenet.org Wed Feb 20 23:13:52 2002 From: schanno at tcfreenet.org (Terry R Schanno) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Exceltel ][, Courier modems? In-Reply-To: <01103121331400.00848@geezer> Message-ID: <20020220231806.S69281-100000@tcfreenet.org> Anyone know anything about Exceltel IIs, and/or thier interactions (lack there of) with 28.8 Couriers? The freenet has a number of users who have Exceltel IIs, but they are unable to login with the new Couriers. I'm stumped... Terry Schanno TCFN Volunteer Coordinator schanno@tcfreenet.org From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Feb 20 23:47:03 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gnome-2.0 In-Reply-To: <20020220221057.S28355@real-time.com> References: <20020220221057.S28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020220233548.7967a830.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > The newgroups rave about gnome-2.0 and it's truetype fonts. So, I installed it > and I'm not seeing anything spectacular. > > I'm I just missing it? > > I'm I too old and my eyes aren't working? You mean font rendering (ie, antialiasing), or what? You might have to fiddle with some environment variables to get that to work (`export GDK_USE_XFT=1' or something like that). Also, the render extension didn't play so nice with Xinerama, last I checked. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ What happens if you put a / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ slinky on an escalator? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020220/0a02e602/attachment.pgp From marc at ds6.net Wed Feb 20 23:48:59 2002 From: marc at ds6.net (Marc A. Ohmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] weird stuff in Apache logs In-Reply-To: <20020216012425.GA437@lemongecko.org>; from drake+tclug@lemongecko.org on Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 07:24:25PM -0600 References: <20020216012425.GA437@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020220234331.A28928@flanders.digsol.net> > 61.168.254.16 - - [09/Feb/2002:05:50:50 -0600] "HEAD /msadc/check.bat/.%u002e/.%u002e/.%u002e/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 400 0 "-" "-" Looks like nimda -- Marc A. Ohmannn marc@ds6.net Digital Solutions, Inc. - Network Administration - Internet Hosting - Application Programming From fertch at mninter.net Thu Feb 21 00:03:02 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) In-Reply-To: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> References: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020220234735.1d28bc3b.fertch@mninter.net> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:44:29 -0600 "James Spinti" wrote: > Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP printer repair > company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went through 80% > of > the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( > > Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... I don't know if they do carry in repairs, or if they even do repairs at all. But I believe that there still is an HP center off of Cty B and Fairview in Roseville, or that general area. At least last time I drove by it was there. Shawn From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Feb 21 00:34:04 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) In-Reply-To: <20020220234735.1d28bc3b.fertch@mninter.net> References: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> <20020220234735.1d28bc3b.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <02022100291000.29255@edith> I used to work here: http://www.expresspoint.com They did a fair number of repairs of HP printers. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 20 February 2002 23:47, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:44:29 -0600 > > "James Spinti" wrote: > > Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP printer repair > > company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went through 80% > > of > > the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( > > > > Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... > > I don't know if they do carry in repairs, or if they even do repairs at > all. But I believe that there still is an HP center off of Cty B and > Fairview in Roseville, or that general area. At least last time I drove > by it was there. > > > > Shawn From kremer at ringworld.org Thu Feb 21 00:52:02 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stuff In-Reply-To: <1014252569.5089.56.camel@yafa> Message-ID: You have to download plugins for most of the non-AIM protocols, but ICQ is now using Oscar for it's protocol. Look at gaim.sourceforge.net they have all the details. it's rather simple to set up. On 20 Feb 2002, Samir M. Nassar wrote: *snip* > Also, I just ran GAIM and it only has functionality to log you onto the > AOL network. Did I get the wrong impression that it also can log you > into MSN, and ICQ? *snip* From steveg at transition.com Thu Feb 21 07:54:04 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC16C@postman.transition.com> If you are talking about hp part number C4195A you don't need a repair shop, just order one and put it in yourself. It is a regular maintainence item, if you use the printer mostly for color printing (like we do) the drum will need to be replaced every 6300 pages or so. (600 pages is way low, although if the drum is exposed to light for more than 15 seconds it will be damaged, maybe someone took a nice long look at it during install.) We have had fairly good luck with IKON Office Solutions they service all of our HP 4000 and 5000 series printers. Our color one has not needed service yet but I would assume they work on those also. Service 952 841 4600 Supplies 952 885 3770 I wonder if maybe you just got a bad drum, I know that the magenta cartridge that came with our printer only lasted about a week (600 pages) and then leaked that nice hot pink toner all over the damn place. (I looked like I had been tie dyed by the time I was done cleaning that mess up.) One call to HP and we had a new toner cartridge the next day. They even pay for the shipping to recycle the used ones, be it toner or drum. Good luck. > -----Original Message----- > From: James Spinti [mailto:jspinti@dartdist.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:44 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) > > > Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP > printer repair > company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went > through 80% of > the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( > > Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... > > Thanks, > > James Spinti > jspinti at dartdist dot com > 952-368-3278 ext. 396 > 952-368-3255 (fax) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Feb 21 08:50:49 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) In-Reply-To: <20020220234735.1d28bc3b.fertch@mninter.net> References: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> <20020220234735.1d28bc3b.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020221083641.A17806@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 11:47:35PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:44:29 -0600 > "James Spinti" wrote: > > > Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP printer repair > > company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went through 80% > > of > > the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( > > > > Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... > > > I don't know if they do carry in repairs, or if they even do repairs at > all. But I believe that there still is an HP center off of Cty B and > Fairview in Roseville, or that general area. At least last time I drove > by it was there. I have no idea if they do repairs either, but I think you mean the HP place on Larpenteur between Fairview and Cleveland in Falcon Heights. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From jspinti at dartdist.com Thu Feb 21 08:51:47 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC16C@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <043401c1bae6$7100b240$47646496@dart> Up until the last drum kit, it has averaged about 10,000 pages per drum, so maybe it is just a bad drum. I didn't know about the exposure to light, that could have happened, too. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Grobe" To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 7:47 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) > If you are talking about hp part number C4195A you don't need a repair shop, > just order one and put it in yourself. It is a regular maintainence item, > if > you use the printer mostly for color printing (like we do) the drum will > need > to be replaced every 6300 pages or so. (600 pages is way low, although if > the > drum is exposed to light for more than 15 seconds it will be damaged, maybe > someone took a nice long look at it during install.) > > We have had fairly good luck with IKON Office Solutions they service all > of our HP 4000 and 5000 series printers. Our color one has not needed > service yet but I would assume they work on those also. > > Service 952 841 4600 > Supplies 952 885 3770 > > > I wonder if maybe you just got a bad drum, I know that the magenta cartridge > that > came with our printer only lasted about a week (600 pages) and then leaked > that nice > hot pink toner all over the damn place. (I looked like I had been tie dyed > by the time > I was done cleaning that mess up.) One call to HP and we had a new toner > cartridge > the next day. They even pay for the shipping to recycle the used ones, be > it toner or drum. > > Good luck. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 21 09:33:04 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) of the [OT] Message-ID: If you just need a part (or if that is the case at some time in the future), I was given this link recently: https://partsdirect.hp.com/mainmenu.asp >>> crumley@belka.space.umn.edu 02/21/02 08:36AM >>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 11:47:35PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:44:29 -0600 > "James Spinti" wrote: > > > Not Linux related, but does anybody know of a reliable HP printer repair > > company around the metro? I have an HP Color 4550 that went through 80% > > of > > the drum on just 600 copies. It's supposed to be good for 12,000 :( > > > > Our normal people are fine for B/W, but on the color... > > > I don't know if they do carry in repairs, or if they even do repairs at > all. But I believe that there still is an HP center off of Cty B and > Fairview in Roseville, or that general area. At least last time I drove > by it was there. I have no idea if they do repairs either, but I think you mean the HP place on Larpenteur between Fairview and Cleveland in Falcon Heights. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From alcyone at slava.net Thu Feb 21 09:39:41 2002 From: alcyone at slava.net (alcyone) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [should this be marked OT?] beermeeting? Message-ID: <1014305291.1703.1.camel@aldebaran> Isn't it time for a beermeeting? From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Thu Feb 21 10:08:01 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [should this be marked OT?] beermeeting? [OT][SQ] References: <1014305291.1703.1.camel@aldebaran> Message-ID: <3C7519FA.593772D6@securecomputing.com> Hopefully my additions to the subject line will prevent anyone from being unduly burdened by this message. Yes, it is time for a beermeeting. -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 21 10:19:43 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stuff In-Reply-To: ; from kremer@ringworld.org on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:37:48AM -0600 References: <1014252569.5089.56.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <20020221100054.J5596@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:37:48AM -0600, Kremer wrote: > You have to download plugins for most of the non-AIM protocols, but ICQ is > now using Oscar for it's protocol. Look at gaim.sourceforge.net they have all > the details. it's rather simple to set up. > Actually it comes with the plugins, and it supports the ICQ protocol seperately (although you can use Oscar now if you wish) select the plugins from the Tools->Plugins menu. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 21 10:36:30 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] quake3, voodoo3 XFree4 In-Reply-To: ; from jpschewe@mtu.net on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:33:14PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020221101215.K5596@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:33:14PM -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > Ok, I'm sure someone has to have solved this before, I just can't get the > right search on google. I've got XFree86-4.1.0 installed along with the 3dfx > drivers. 3Ddiag says I've got everything configured ok and the 3D > screensavers in xscreensaver work fine. Now I'm trying quake3 and I get the > following: Don't use the 3dfx drivers, use Mesa, it provides libGL.so: ...loading libGL.so: Initializing OpenGL display ...setting mode 3: 640 480 Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 2.1 XF86DGA Mouse (Version 2.0) initialized XFree86-VidModeExtension Activated at 640x480 Using 4/4/4 Color bits, 16 depth, 0 stencil display. GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI Voodoo3 20010501 x86/MMX/3DNow! ... [poptix@tranq poptix]$ rpm -q -f /usr/lib/libGL.so Mesa-devel-3.4.2-7 I get around 62fps @ 640x480 (Voodoo3 3000 AGP) > ----- Client Initialization Complete ----- > ----- R_Init ----- > ...loading libGL.so: QGL_Init: Can't load libGL.so from /etc/ld.so.conf or current dir: libglide2x.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > failed > ...loading libMesaVoodooGL.so: QGL_Init: Can't load libMesaVoodooGL.so from /etc/ld.so.conf or current dir: libglide2x.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > failed > ----- CL_Shutdown ----- > RE_Shutdown( 1 ) > ----------------------- > ----- CL_Shutdown ----- > ----------------------- > Sys_Error: GLimp_Init() - could not load OpenGL subsystem > > Now I don't have libglide2x.so on my system anywhere, only libglide3x.so. I > tried linking to 3x and that puked too with some undefined reference errors. > Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Thanks. > > -- > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net > For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels > nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any > powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all > creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that > is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From matthew at redroot.org Thu Feb 21 10:41:01 2002 From: matthew at redroot.org (matthew@redroot.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [should this be marked OT?] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: <1014305291.1703.1.camel@aldebaran> Message-ID: Tonight at McGovern's Upstairs! West 7th and Chestnut (two blocks from the Excel center.) in St. Paul I only suggest it because I will be serving their tonight, and I am a Linux geek. Maybe I could offer a geek special.... anyway.... I will be there tonight serving booze etc... anyone interested in talking geek is welcome to show up. It is the upstairs part of McGovern's! There are no geeks in McGovern's main bar, so go UPSTAIRS! mcd On 21 Feb 2002, alcyone wrote: > Isn't it time for a beermeeting? > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From fertch at mninter.net Thu Feb 21 12:06:03 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP-Color Laserjet (OT) In-Reply-To: <20020221083641.A17806@gordo.space.umn.edu> References: <030801c1ba60$2870ea80$47646496@dart> <20020220234735.1d28bc3b.fertch@mninter.net> <20020221083641.A17806@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020221114925.269459af.fertch@mninter.net> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:36:42 -0600 Jim Crumley wrote: > > > > I don't know if they do carry in repairs, or if they even do repairs > at > > all. But I believe that there still is an HP center off of Cty B and > > Fairview in Roseville, or that general area. At least last time I > drove > > by it was there. > > I have no idea if they do repairs either, but I think you mean > the HP place on Larpenteur between Fairview and Cleveland in > Falcon Heights. Yep, that's the place. If I'm not mistaken it's almost right across from the east campus isn't it? Or am I getting my locations mixed up again? Been a few years since I've driven that area.. Shawn From leif at mn.rr.com Thu Feb 21 12:49:45 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux firewalls Message-ID: Unix Review recently posted a review of three Linux firewalls. I wish they also included IPCop in their roundup (http://ipcop.sourceforge.net/). Here's the link: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=2424/uni1014152480113/0202i.htm Leif Hvidsten PGP ID: 0x3626E2CD Key Fingerprint: 21C2 286E 8FAF 25D1 9356 923A 0D05 6DE8 3626 E2CD From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 21 13:18:38 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: References: <1014305291.1703.1.camel@aldebaran> Message-ID: <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 10:24:41AM -0600, matthew@redroot.org wrote: > Tonight at McGovern's Upstairs! West 7th and Chestnut (two blocks > from the Excel center.) in St. Paul I'm there! > I only suggest it because I will be serving their tonight, and I am a > Linux geek. Maybe I could offer a geek special.... Hey, if I end up tipping "one of our own", then I'm even more in favor of this spot. ;-) BTW, this is a TCLUG event. It is on-topic. Let's not go overboard with this whole OT thing. If anything, this could also be forwarded to the tclug-announce list. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/013dafb0/attachment.pgp From matthew at redroot.org Thu Feb 21 14:22:14 2002 From: matthew at redroot.org (matthew@redroot.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> Message-ID: If anyone feels need please forward to the announce list. We open at 5:00pm. I will be wearing the Summit hat. mcd On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 10:24:41AM -0600, matthew@redroot.org wrote: > > Tonight at McGovern's Upstairs! West 7th and Chestnut (two blocks > > from the Excel center.) in St. Paul > > I'm there! > > > I only suggest it because I will be serving their tonight, and I am a > > Linux geek. Maybe I could offer a geek special.... > > Hey, if I end up tipping "one of our own", then I'm even more in favor > of this spot. ;-) > > BTW, this is a TCLUG event. It is on-topic. Let's not go overboard > with this whole OT thing. If anything, this could also be forwarded to > the tclug-announce list. > > From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Thu Feb 21 14:51:01 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? References: Message-ID: <00d701c1bbef$d2592540$6600a8c0@destro> I've never been to any of the tclug meetings. How many people usually show up at the beermeetings? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] beermeeting? > If anyone feels need please forward to the announce list. > > We open at 5:00pm. > > I will be wearing the Summit hat. > > > > mcd > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 10:24:41AM -0600, matthew@redroot.org wrote: > > > Tonight at McGovern's Upstairs! West 7th and Chestnut (two blocks > > > from the Excel center.) in St. Paul > > > > I'm there! > > > > > I only suggest it because I will be serving their tonight, and I am a > > > Linux geek. Maybe I could offer a geek special.... > > > > Hey, if I end up tipping "one of our own", then I'm even more in favor > > of this spot. ;-) > > > > BTW, this is a TCLUG event. It is on-topic. Let's not go overboard > > with this whole OT thing. If anything, this could also be forwarded to > > the tclug-announce list. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 21 14:52:03 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> References: <1014305291.1703.1.camel@aldebaran> <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020221203920.GB1326@sistina.com> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:19:48PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >I'm there! Is this official then? I'm game. It's right on my way home. > >> I only suggest it because I will be serving their tonight, and I am a >> Linux geek. Maybe I could offer a geek special.... Mmmmm, geek special... >BTW, this is a TCLUG event. It is on-topic. Let's not go overboard >with this whole OT thing. If anything, this could also be forwarded to >the tclug-announce list. Agreed. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/80b98584/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Feb 21 14:52:56 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: References: <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020221203953.GC1326@sistina.com> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 02:12:49PM -0600, matthew@redroot.org wrote: > >I will be wearing the Summit hat. I'll be the ugly one with B.O. and a really loud mouth. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/882e7088/attachment.pgp From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Feb 21 14:55:04 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Book - Costs for Unix and Windows Message-ID: <3C755D90.C7631BA5@attbroadband.com> A short while ago there was a link posted for a book that comparison information for implementations on UNIX and Windows. I'm wanted to reference that site but can't find it. I searched through the archives but could not locate it their either. If someone has it could you post it again. Thanks -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 21 15:09:04 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Book - Costs for Unix and Windows Message-ID: http://www.winface.com/ ? >>> xpoverby@attbroadband.com 02/21/02 02:50PM >>> A short while ago there was a link posted for a book that comparison information for implementations on UNIX and Windows. I'm wanted to reference that site but can't find it. I searched through the archives but could not locate it their either. If someone has it could you post it again. Thanks -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Thu Feb 21 15:44:16 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? References: <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> <20020221203953.GC1326@sistina.com> Message-ID: <010401c1bbf8$8aad20d0$6600a8c0@destro> I'm definitly going now ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] beermeeting? From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 21 21:13:01 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: <20020221203920.GB1326@sistina.com> References: <1014305291.1703.1.camel@aldebaran> <20020221181948.GB22535@wookimus.net> <20020221203920.GB1326@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020221220055.GK22535@wookimus.net> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 02:39:20PM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:19:48PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > >I'm there! > > Is this official then? I'm game. It's right on my way home. Need a lift? I drove to work today. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/6f7f10c7/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 21 21:15:49 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting? In-Reply-To: <00d701c1bbef$d2592540$6600a8c0@destro> References: <00d701c1bbef$d2592540$6600a8c0@destro> Message-ID: <20020221220247.GL22535@wookimus.net> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:25:22PM -0800, Joel Wickard wrote: > I've never been to any of the tclug meetings. How many people usually > show up at the beermeetings? Depends on the week and location. Anywhere between 10 and 20 people. Sometimes more, sometimes less. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/5600d539/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 21 21:35:10 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OK. That's IT! Procmail to the rescue! Message-ID: <20020221221739.GM22535@wookimus.net> OK. I've had it. Rogue Listmailers beware. I'm changing your friggin email! No more of the stupid "Reply-To" headers will make it unmarred, unchecked, untouched! I'm changing their tune with procmail and formail!! # Snippet of a procmailrc to rename the friggin Reply-To to # X-You-Thought-You-Would-Make-Me-Reply-To # # INCLUDERC=headers.rc # from procmail-lib MORE_LIST_MAILERS="${USERADDR}-(admin|request)" MORE_LIST_HEADERS="^(List-(Id|Help|Archive|(un)?subscribe|Post|${USERADDR})|\ X-Mailman-Version)|X-(List|listar-version):$PRE_ADDR_SPAN" MORE_FROM_LIST="($LIST_PRECEDENCE|($FROM|$MORE_LIST_HEADERS)\ ($LIST_MAILERS|$MORE_LIST_MAILERS)$POST_ADDR_SPAN)" # Make sure MATCH is cleared MATCH # If it's from a list, do stuff... :0 * $ $MORE_FROM_LIST { :0 * $ $FROM\/($LIST_MAILERS|$MORE_LIST_MAILERS) { LISTADDR=$MATCH } # Get rid of thos friggin' annoying Reply-To headers... :0f * $ LISTADDR ?? . * ^Reply-To:.* | formail -R "Reply-To" "X-You-Thought-You-Would-Make-Me-Reply-To" # Do more stuff... [snipped for brevity] } Ah, yes! I see the light! -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/2b3ff4f0/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 21 21:48:10 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] testing Message-ID: <20020221230326.GN22535@wookimus.net> blah -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/aad1a57b/attachment.pgp From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Feb 21 22:10:49 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Book - Thanks a bunch References: Message-ID: <3C75903F.434B6F20@attbroadband.com> "Troy.A Johnson" wrote: > > http://www.winface.com/ ? -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From bradyh at bitstream.net Thu Feb 21 22:19:04 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] C++ Builder for Linux Message-ID: <1014340988.2264.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just got this in my inbox. Did I miss something? Did we know that C++ Builder would be available for Linux? Is that even what this means? These articles are a little skimpy on technical details...but I assume that C++ Builder would use the same GUI toolkit that Kylix uses. Borland? C++Builder? 6 delivers REAL ANSI/ISO C++ for the power and performance you need to build and deploy cross-platform--ready Windows?/Linux? GUI, database, Web server, and Web Services applications that simplify e-business integration across diverse platforms among customers, suppliers, business partners, and employees worldwide. http://www.sdtimes.com/news/048/story2.htm Brady From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Feb 21 22:53:02 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: (TIPS) More procmail stuff (was Re: [TCLUG] OK. That's IT! Procmail to the rescue!) In-Reply-To: <20020221221739.GM22535@wookimus.net> References: <20020221221739.GM22535@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020222044007.GA30062@wookimus.net> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 04:17:39PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > # Get rid of thos friggin' annoying Reply-To headers... > :0f > * $ LISTADDR ?? . > * ^Reply-To:.* > | formail -R "Reply-To" "X-You-Thought-You-Would-Make-Me-Reply-To" Quick correction, in case any one has tried this yet and watched it fail. Remove the '$' between '*' and 'LISTADDR'. It should look like this: :0f * LISTADDR ?? . * ^Reply-To:.* | formail -R "Reply-To" "X-I-Have-A-Reply-For-You" After thinking about it some more. It's not necessarily list servers that do this. If your "To:" header and "Reply-To:" header match, then something is amis. It's an ambiguous assignment, and quite useless. Better to use that as a comparison tool, however. # Test for Reply-To first. If fails, skips next two tests. :0 * ^Reply-To: *\/[^ ].* { REPLYTOADDR=$MATCH } # Execute this recipe if last was successful :0 a * ^To: *\/[^ ].* { TOADDR=$MATCH } # If last successful, filter the email, but wait for it. If not # successful, pass on. :0 afW * TOADDR ?? REPLYTOADDR | formail -R "Reply-To" "X-I-Do-Not-Believe-I-Will-Reply-To" The upside is that I'm assuming this should be much quicker. It's obviously simpler w/respect to the regex matching done. Another tip to remember is that you can have any number of RC files for procmail, and that you can include them using INCLUDERC. My procmailfile has many of these, but it also has a few conditional tests that allow me to turn on and shut off the use of any given RC file. :0 * ? test -f $PMDIR/replyto-fix.rc -a -f $PMDIR/do_replyto-fix { INCLUDERC=$PMDIR/replyto-fix.rc } Let's say I wanted to make the new Reply-To header a variable. I could add that in before the INCLUDERC call: :0 * ? test -f $PMDIR/replyto-fix.rc -a -f $PMDIR/do_replyto-fix { NEWREPLYTO="X-Reply-To-This-Wanker" INCLUDERC=$PMDIR/replyto-fix.rc } And in replyto-fix.rc, you'd have a shell-like default assignment: NEWREPLYTO="${NEWREPLYTO:-\"X-Reply-To-Matches-To\"}" Procmail is quite powerful with simple syntax. Just remember to read your man pages. HEH. In hindsight. If you want to save yourself 4k for the filesize of "do_something", you could place a variable at the top of your ~/.procmailrc and test for it like so: DO_REPLYTO_FIX=1 :0 * DO_REPLYTO_FIX ?? . * ? test -f $PMDIR/replyto-fix.rc { NEWREPLYTO="X-Reply-To-This-Wanker" INCLUDERC=$PMDIR/replyto-fix.rc } To undefine a variable, just list it: DO_REPLYTO_FIX * Chewie goes off and fixes his procmailrc file and saves a whole 40k. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020221/786bd6a5/attachment.pgp From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Feb 21 23:10:37 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] quake3, voodoo3 XFree4 In-Reply-To: <20020221101215.K5596@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020221101215.K5596@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:33:14PM -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > > Ok, I'm sure someone has to have solved this before, I just can't get the > > right search on google. I've got XFree86-4.1.0 installed along with the 3dfx > > drivers. 3Ddiag says I've got everything configured ok and the 3D > > screensavers in xscreensaver work fine. Now I'm trying quake3 and I get the > > following: > > Don't use the 3dfx drivers, use Mesa, it provides libGL.so: > > ...loading libGL.so: Initializing OpenGL display > ...setting mode 3: 640 480 > Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 2.1 > XF86DGA Mouse (Version 2.0) initialized > XFree86-VidModeExtension Activated at 640x480 > Using 4/4/4 Color bits, 16 depth, 0 stencil display. > GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI Voodoo3 20010501 x86/MMX/3DNow! > > ... > > [poptix@tranq poptix]$ rpm -q -f /usr/lib/libGL.so > Mesa-devel-3.4.2-7 > > I get around 62fps @ 640x480 (Voodoo3 3000 AGP) Thanks for the hint. Turns out I just had to point /usr/lib/libGL.so at GL/libGL.so.1.2.xf86_glx and then set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /usr/lib, for some reason it's not in ld.so.conf and it's not being found by quake. Now if I could only get it full screen. It takes my whole screen, but only uses the bottom left corner and it's only like 25fps. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Thu Feb 21 23:47:03 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opinions on Hancom & Applixware Message-ID: <200202220542.g1M5geb03359@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Has anyone on the TCLUG list tried either of these office suites. I have read several online reviews...some good others not. I'm leaning slightly toward Hancom. Thanks... From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Feb 22 00:04:02 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups Message-ID: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> Heh. I should test my code before I send it. Procmail is a strange beast. A good way to test it out though is to just run it from the command line and feed it fake email, and read the logs. shell$ procmail < fake.msg Anyway, I did end up making my little Reply-To recipe nice and small: # Fix bad list Reply-To munging. :0 fHW * ^Reply-To: *\/[^ ].* * $ ^To: $MATCH | formail -R "Reply-To" "${NEWREPLYTO:-X-Not-Going-To-Reply-To:" Hope this helps. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/bd461370/attachment.pgp From j at 4dvfx.com Fri Feb 22 10:26:38 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement Message-ID: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as high as it goes. thanks in advance Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/45808f37/attachment.html From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Feb 22 10:41:53 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opinions on Hancom & Applixware Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351507A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I used to use Applixware about 5 years ago, and it was a sweet product even back then. I would definitely suggest trying it out. The hancom stuff looks OK, but their professional suite just comes with extra stuff that you can download for free from thekompany.com. If I were to blindly pick one though, it would definitely be Applixware. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Rodd Ahrenstorff [mailto:rahrenstorff@mediaone.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:42 PM > To: tclug > Subject: [TCLUG] Opinions on Hancom & Applixware > > > Has anyone on the TCLUG list tried either of these office > suites. I have > read several online reviews...some good others not. I'm > leaning slightly > toward Hancom. Thanks... > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Feb 22 11:06:55 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> References: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <1014397189.1594.16.camel@yafa> Jeff, First of all, take everything I say with a grain of salt, I've been up for almost 24 hours now. What distro are you running? (It might make a difference) What flavor of GNOME are you using? Ximian GNOME is very smooth as things go. Both GNOME and KDE are pretty bloaty. For ex satan-worshippers (read: windows users) this is a definite plus. Using E will tax your machine if you are already using GNOME or KDE. (Maybe you cannot use E with KDE, but that is beside the point.) How much RAM do you have? How much swap do you have assigned? What is your processor type and clockspeed? What version is your kernel? Another tip. What kind of videocard do you have? I had a problem with games until it was pointed out to me that I might have set my color setting to be higher than my card could handle purely in hardware accelleration. So you might want to check your configuration files and your videocard and make sure you aren't running in software accelleration. If you have to use GNOME, then use a decent window manager like sawfish or something similar. Although I'd recommend KDE over GNOME. At least until I can compare the outcoming KDE 3.0 and GNOME 2.0 OK, my brain is segfaulting. Time to shut down before I blue-screen. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/adc15670/attachment.pgp From steveg at transition.com Fri Feb 22 12:03:01 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) is offering systems without windows preinstalled. http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842375.html I see a trend starting here, and I like it. From jima at gimp.damnation.net Fri Feb 22 12:55:03 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Steve Grobe wrote: > First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, > IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, > HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, > and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) > is offering systems without windows preinstalled. Yep. I actually brought this up at the beermeeting last night. The general response I got was people pointing out that the hardware wasn't that great. I'm sorry, but this really does set a precedent. It's a big deal, and the timing was excellent. Microsoft can't make a strong move against Walmart, not with antitrust accusations hanging over their head. We'll see how this turns out. Jima From natecars at real-time.com Fri Feb 22 12:58:58 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <1014397189.1594.16.camel@yafa> Message-ID: On 22 Feb 2002, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > OK, my brain is segfaulting. Time to shut down before I blue-screen. *gasp* your brain runs windows??? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From idsfa at visi.com Fri Feb 22 13:14:55 2002 From: idsfa at visi.com (Michael Kellen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <200202221808.g1MI8j012997@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202221808.g1MI8j012997@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1014404850.395.0.camel@mitethe> On Fri, 2002-02-22, "Jeff Schmidt" wrote: > having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way = > the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all = > 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, = > which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find = > more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E = > if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the = > threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as = > high as it goes. thanks in advance Jeff -- It is not clear what you mean by "the way the mouse moves." You haven't really described the problem well enough for anyone to do more than stab in the dark. That said, here's my stab: If your mouse pointer just sometimes flies frantically around the screen or lodges itself in a corner, you may be having a conflict with two different programs trying to read from the mouse at the same time. One of these is the GUI, and the other is a mouse tool for the text mode called gpm. If you are using GNOME, the easy way to test this is to turn off the text mode program. To do this, issue the following command while logged in as the root user: # gpm -k (without the # sign) And see if your problem goes away. I'm sure plenty of people will provide more complete solutions, but I have to play taxi right now. If this *doesn't* solve the problem, please describe it in more detail. Michael Kellen -- $ fortune -m Kellen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/970dfd87/attachment.pgp From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Feb 22 13:15:46 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Opinions on Hancom & Applixware In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351507A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351507A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200202221303.4219@ellegon.com> On Friday 22 February 2002 10:31 am, Austad, Jay wrote: > I used to use Applixware about 5 years ago, and it was a sweet product even > back then. I would definitely suggest trying it out. > > The hancom stuff looks OK, but their professional suite just comes with > extra stuff that you can download for free from thekompany.com. > > If I were to blindly pick one though, it would definitely be Applixware. > Each to his own. I tried the Applixware demo -- and though I'd downloaded it fresh from the website, it reported that it had expired ... but did come up. The only problem was that when I tried to open a Word document, it hung (the program, that is, not the system -- thank Ghu for Linux). Right now, for what I do -- fairly vanilla formatting stuff that sometimes needs to be distributed in Word format -- OpenOffice.org seems to work awfully well, although there are a few glitches with some of the finer points of Word-format import and export, which I understand are being addressed in the release version of Star Office 6.0. (OpenOffice.org -- they prefer that it be called that rather than anything else -- is the open source version of Star Office, and seems to have all of the features that I use.) From estabroo at talkware.net Fri Feb 22 13:33:51 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement References: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <3C7699A8.1020406@talkware.net> Jeff Schmidt wrote: > having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way > the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all > 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, > which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find > more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E > if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the > threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as > high as it goes. thanks in advance > > Jeff Is your cursor being drawn by software or hardware? This is a setting in your XF86Config(-4) file (usually in /etc/X11) under your video card settings. usually something like (read the man page for the driver for your card): Option "HWCursor" "1" or "true" or "y" or "on" or the inverse: Option "SWCursor" "0" or "false" or "n" or "off" This can make a big difference. Eric From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Fri Feb 22 13:36:17 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement References: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <004501c1bcaf$19c19420$6600a8c0@destro> ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Schmidt To: [ TCLUG ] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as high as it goes. thanks in advance Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/bf80a3f8/attachment.htm From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Feb 22 13:51:44 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax Message-ID: Is this just for walmart.com, or can these be bought in walmart outlets too? From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Feb 22 14:21:03 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bttv driver no workie Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351508C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> When I was using kernel 2.4.9, bttv worked great. But with my shiny new 2.4.17 kernel, the image from xawtv freezes after a couple of seconds unless I move the window around. It locked up my whole machine last night too. /var/log/messages shows: bttv0: PLL: 28636363 => 35468950 ... ok bttv0: PLL: switching off bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 bttv0: aiee: error loops bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f340014 bttv0: aiee: error loops Does anyone know what the problem is? I must have my History channel and TLC! And my makeshift "at" powered Tivo. :) Jay _______________________________________________ gentoo-user mailing list gentoo-user@gentoo.org http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-user From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 22 14:26:07 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <20020222201759.GA3510@iucha.net> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:46:40PM -0600, Jima wrote: > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Steve Grobe wrote: > > First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, > > IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, > > HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, > > and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) > > is offering systems without windows preinstalled. > > Yep. I actually brought this up at the beermeeting last night. The > general response I got was people pointing out that the hardware wasn't > that great. I'm sorry, but this really does set a precedent. It's a big > deal, and the timing was excellent. Microsoft can't make a strong move > against Walmart, not with antitrust accusations hanging over their head. That's not the reason... M$ gladly f***s Dell and HP right now. The reason is that WalMart is bigger than M$. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/ce79c7f9/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Feb 22 14:55:02 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax Message-ID: >>> florin@iucha.net 02/22/02 02:17PM >>> >The reason is that WalMart is bigger than M$. And could shed all MS-related business and not really lose too much in doing so. From list at slushpupie.com Fri Feb 22 14:55:53 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bttv driver no workie In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351508C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351508C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020222204626.1C6889052@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> Works fine on my machine with 2.4.17. Which V4L interface are you using? V4L or V4L2? The second one has far more options, but seems to break easily. Also, did you compile any of the drivers into the kernel or leave them as modules? It almost certainly wont work unless they are modules. Jay On Friday 22 February 2002 02:05 pm, Austad, Jay wrote: > When I was using kernel 2.4.9, bttv worked great. But with my shiny new > 2.4.17 kernel, the image from xawtv freezes after a couple of seconds > unless I move the window around. It locked up my whole machine last night > too. /var/log/messages shows: > > bttv0: PLL: 28636363 => 35468950 ... ok > bttv0: PLL: switching off > bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 > bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 > bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 > bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 > bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f08d010 > bttv0: aiee: error loops > bttv0: irq: SCERR risc_count=1f340014 > bttv0: aiee: error loops > > Does anyone know what the problem is? I must have my History channel and > TLC! And my makeshift "at" powered Tivo. :) > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > gentoo-user mailing list > gentoo-user@gentoo.org > http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-user > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at gimp.damnation.net Fri Feb 22 14:56:41 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020222201759.GA3510@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:46:40PM -0600, Jima wrote: > > > > Yep. I actually brought this up at the beermeeting last night. The > > general response I got was people pointing out that the hardware wasn't > > that great. I'm sorry, but this really does set a precedent. It's a big > > deal, and the timing was excellent. Microsoft can't make a strong move > > against Walmart, not with antitrust accusations hanging over their head. > > That's not the reason... M$ gladly f***s Dell and HP right now. The > reason is that WalMart is bigger than M$. Did Dell and HP just start selling Windows-less PCs this week? I admit, I phrased that wrong. The primary reason is, yes, Walmart is bigger than Microsoft. But the antitrust cases certainly don't make it any easier for Microsoft to act the part of the playground bully. Jima From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Fri Feb 22 15:11:04 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax References: Message-ID: <00e001c1bcbd$444afb10$6600a8c0@destro> This an excellent step for opening up the market, but I don't know how much potential it really has. If there aren't enough people that buy the OSless pc's, and walmart cancels the plan, then other companies will likely not even attempt to put anything like this into action. I personally am going to look into how worth while the hardware on these machines is, and if it'd decent I might buy one, if for nothing else than to support the cause. From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Feb 22 15:29:02 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bttv driver no workie Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003515092@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Works fine on my machine with 2.4.17. Which V4L interface > are you using? V4L > or V4L2? The second one has far more options, but seems to > break easily. /dev/v4l/video0 So v4l? What's v4l2? > Also, did you compile any of the drivers into the kernel or > leave them as > modules? It almost certainly wont work unless they are modules. Everything is compiled as modules. I've seen others post the same problem to several mailing lists, however, I haven't found a solution. I also have another bttv based vid capture card that I want to install, but I need to get this TV card working again first. Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Feb 22 15:33:13 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003515093@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1731328&cat=3951&type= 1&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3951 $499 for a box with 256MB, 40GB and a 1.4 Athlon. It's not a stellar deal, but it's not bad. They have a 1Ghz celeron model for $399 also. Here's their big mistake.... When you view the item, it doesn't show a list of the OS's you can buy from them to put on it. It would be nice if the just had a list of different OS's that they sell so you could add the item to your cart, and then add the OS of your choice also. The average person buying a machine from wal-mart is probably going to be somewhat clueless about what else they need. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Wickard [mailto:jwickard@litriusgroup.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 4:56 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax > > > This an excellent step for opening up the market, but I don't > know how much > potential it really has. If there aren't enough people that > buy the OSless > pc's, and walmart cancels the plan, then other companies will > likely not > even attempt to put anything like this into action. I > personally am going > to look into how worth while the hardware on these machines > is, and if it'd > decent I might buy one, if for nothing else than to support the cause. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From j at 4dvfx.com Fri Feb 22 15:49:15 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement References: Message-ID: <001601c1bbe9$049ac330$6401a8c0@win2k001> > First of all, take everything I say with a grain of salt, I've been up > for almost 24 hours now. hey, me too. :) > What distro are you running? (It might make a difference) Red Hat 7.1 > What flavor of GNOME are you using? Ximian GNOME is very smooth as > things go. as far as the flavor, what ever comes with RH 7.1. > Both GNOME and KDE are pretty bloaty. For ex satan-worshippers (read: > windows users) this is a definite plus. Using E will tax your machine if > you are already using GNOME or KDE. (Maybe you cannot use E with KDE, > but that is beside the point.) > > How much RAM do you have? 1024MB > How much swap do you have assigned? 1807272 > What is your processor type and clockspeed? AMD AthlonXP 1700+ > What version is your kernel? SGI 2.4.2-5SGI kernel (see video card for reason) > Another tip. What kind of videocard do you have? I had a problem with > games until it was pointed out to me that I might have set my color > setting to be higher than my card could handle purely in hardware > accelleration. So you might want to check your configuration files and > your videocard and make sure you aren't running in software > accelleration. SGI VR3 Quadro 64mb. This is why I'm running SGI's kernel. But I know that I have the same issues with the 2.4.17 and 2.4.2-2 kernels. > If you have to use GNOME, then use a decent window manager like sawfish > or something similar. Although I'd recommend KDE over GNOME. At least > until I can compare the outcoming KDE 3.0 and GNOME 2.0 > > OK, my brain is segfaulting. Time to shut down before I blue-screen I'm trying KDE now. It does seem to have much smoother mouse movement. There are things I don't like, but I'll probably go with it until I find out more about the KDE3.0/Gnome2.0 debate. Thanks for your help. One more question. How do I change the default enviroment in my login manager? it's currently defaulting to Gnome, but I'd like to change it to KDE. I'm assuming there's a config file for this, but I'm not sure where, or which one. Thanks again. Jeff From gregory.siems at pca.state.mn.us Fri Feb 22 15:52:15 2002 From: gregory.siems at pca.state.mn.us (Siems, Gregory) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax Message-ID: hmmm... winmodem or real modem? From j at 4dvfx.com Fri Feb 22 15:53:24 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement References: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> <004501c1bcaf$19c19420$6600a8c0@destro> Message-ID: <002a01c1bbea$6f94f920$6401a8c0@win2k001> Sorry for not being more clear on this. basically what I'm talking about is this. You have 2 settings in the Gnome Control Center for the mouse. Acceleration and Threshold. What I don't like is the Threshold. I don't like the way the cursor will speed up depending on how fast you ve the mouse. It doesn't move at the same speed you move the mouse at. If you move the mouse slowly, the cursor moves VERY slow, but when you move it at an average speed, it will zip across the screen. to get a good Idea of what I'm talking about, set the Accelleration high, and the Threshold low. Even with the Threshold set high, you still have some slight cursor speed changes. Hopefully this makes sense. If not, I will just have to purge my self of the filth called Microsoft. Jeff ? having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as high as it goes. thanks in advance Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/c84d11b5/attachment.htm From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Feb 22 16:11:30 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003515093@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Here's their big mistake.... When you view the item, it doesn't show a list > of the OS's you can buy from them to put on it. Not only that, it's not clear exactly how much you're saving by eliminating the OS. It'd be nice if they had an option to purchase an OEM copy of Winders for $40 (or whatever the cost is for OEMs). Then you could say $40 for windows, $30 for Mandrake, etc. Of course, M$ might have something to say about that too. -Brian From j at 4dvfx.com Fri Feb 22 16:13:34 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement References: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> <3C7699A8.1020406@talkware.net> Message-ID: <006301c1bbec$67634700$6401a8c0@win2k001> Neither option is in there. This may be because I need to run SGI's Visual Workstation Edition to properly run my card (SGI VR3 Quadro. nVidia's drivers didn't work right) I'm guessing that that's just something that's normal in Gnome, since KDE is more like what I'm used to. Jeff > Jeff Schmidt wrote: > > having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way > > the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all > > 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, > > which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find > > more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E > > if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the > > threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as > > high as it goes. thanks in advance > > > > Jeff > > Is your cursor being drawn by software or hardware? This is a setting > in your XF86Config(-4) file (usually in /etc/X11) under your video card > settings. > > usually something like (read the man page for the driver for your card): > Option "HWCursor" "1" or "true" or "y" or "on" > or the inverse: > Option "SWCursor" "0" or "false" or "n" or "off" > > This can make a big difference. > > Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Fri Feb 22 16:22:52 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: References: <20020222201759.GA3510@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020222220543.GB3510@iucha.net> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:51:59PM -0600, Jima wrote: > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:46:40PM -0600, Jima wrote: > > > > > > Yep. I actually brought this up at the beermeeting last night. The > > > general response I got was people pointing out that the hardware wasn't > > > that great. I'm sorry, but this really does set a precedent. It's a big > > > deal, and the timing was excellent. Microsoft can't make a strong move > > > against Walmart, not with antitrust accusations hanging over their head. > > > > That's not the reason... M$ gladly f***s Dell and HP right now. The > > reason is that WalMart is bigger than M$. > > Did Dell and HP just start selling Windows-less PCs this week? I admit, > I phrased that wrong. The primary reason is, yes, Walmart is bigger than > Microsoft. But the antitrust cases certainly don't make it any easier for > Microsoft to act the part of the playground bully. Jima, please look outside the Linux friendly world... M$ was found guilty and the DOJ decides together with them how gentle the slap on the wrist should be. M$ is off the hook now :( florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/e5abc7f5/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Feb 22 16:23:47 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02022216033600.10376@edith> Hmmm. Lemme see now. We wish to sell to people who are smart enough to load an O.S. by themselves, but we won't tell the specs of the hardware so you can tell if it will work with your chosen O.S. I looked around a bit for the brand and did not find anything in an initial google search. Sounds to me like they expect to sell record numbers with stellar planning like this! Kelly Black KB0GBJ From list at slushpupie.com Fri Feb 22 16:38:52 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] bttv driver no workie In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003515092@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003515092@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020222223137.731339063@thursday.internal.teamfreeze.com> On Friday 22 February 2002 03:13 pm, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Works fine on my machine with 2.4.17. Which V4L interface > > are you using? V4L > > or V4L2? The second one has far more options, but seems to > > break easily. > > /dev/v4l/video0 > So v4l? What's v4l2? v4l2 is the next generation Video4Linux interface. xawtv's web page has more info. Did you recently add devfs support? I know when I tried to go from non-devfs to devfs it screwed up a bunch of permissions and such for many things, including the tv card. The other thing to look at is the module paramters, the errors seem to be somewhat hardware related, do you need to pass any specific options to the bttv driver? You might try insmod-ing the drivers by hand once to see if that is the cause. Totaly unrelated question: What TV viewer do you use? > > Also, did you compile any of the drivers into the kernel or > > leave them as > > modules? It almost certainly wont work unless they are modules. > > Everything is compiled as modules. I've seen others post the same problem > to several mailing lists, however, I haven't found a solution. > > I also have another bttv based vid capture card that I want to install, but > I need to get this TV card working again first. What brand(s) card(s) do you have? From tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net Fri Feb 22 17:33:02 2002 From: tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net (B T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003515093@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3C76D207.A4BFA5EB@mn.mediaone.net> GIZMO New the Tech republic News Letter also has a story on it this afternoon . From zibby at ringworld.org Fri Feb 22 17:33:55 2002 From: zibby at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stuff In-Reply-To: <3C743820.3090903@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: | one client. However I don't know anyone else using jabber. I'm NinjaSeg | on jabber.org. Any tclugers using it? It'd be neat if the members list | had an option to put in your jabber and other IM IDs and search for | others... zibby@jabber.ringworld.org Yes, jabber rules. :) | Also, the latest GAIM rules. I've got ICQ, AIM, MSN, and Jabber all in Yes, gaim does support that. If yours doesn't, you either don't have the plugins loaded or just don't have said plugins installed. The plugins should be in /usr/share/gaim or something similar to that. Andrew S. Zbikowski | Home: 763.591.0977 http://www.ringworld.org | PCS: 612.306.6055 Firemages aren't noted for their diplomatic skills. From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Feb 22 17:48:02 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <001601c1bbe9$049ac330$6401a8c0@win2k001> References: <001601c1bbe9$049ac330$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <1014421505.1594.79.camel@yafa> > I'm trying KDE now. It does seem to have much smoother mouse movement. > There are things I don't like, but I'll probably go with it until I find out > more about the KDE3.0/Gnome2.0 debate. Thanks for your help. > > One more question. How do I change the default enviroment in my login > manager? it's currently defaulting to Gnome, but I'd like to change it to > KDE. I'm assuming there's a config file for this, but I'm not sure where, > or which one. Thanks again. Heh Go to K/Start/What-ever-the-hell-it-is > Preferences > System > Login Manager and K/Start/What-ever-the-hell-it-is > Preferences > System > Session Manager and that should take care of it (I think) Yeah, with your specs nothing should be running slow. K6-2 (500) 416 megs of RAM VooDoo 3 with 16 megs of memory This is my machine and it runs very smoothly. If it weren't for the fact that things don't crash I wouldn't know that I am not running Windows 2000 anymore. I tried Ximian GNOME for a couple of days. It looks really nice. It looks like it should be a commercial product. However, I missed the stability of KDE. I would get random freezes. Whole programs (if left too long without interaction) would just sleep and decide not to wake up. Killing the programs and restarting them would not help. Most often I'd have to log out and log back in to set things right and sometimes I would have to reboot to set things straight. Also, Ximian treats you like a Windows user. This is either because the Ximian people think they are so elite that they don't need to give the users configurability, or they think you are just plain stupid. i.e. In Ximian you can only change the menus as root. (!!!) Instead of having a config file for each user. Maybe there is a workaround, maybe I am just too blind to see it, but KDE was just more welcoming. It tells you 'it is ok to try things out. In fact, we encourage trying things out!) KDE is a fine piece of engineering. IMMUHO. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/8b5821fa/attachment.pgp From kethry at winternet.com Fri Feb 22 18:41:43 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: Message-ID: *chuckle* MS can't bully WalMart because WalMart CAN'T be bullied - WalMart will just turn around laugh and turn their backs on ANY MS product for the next 5 years...MS kowtows to WalMart... Liz On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Jima wrote: > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:46:40PM -0600, Jima wrote: > > > > > > Yep. I actually brought this up at the beermeeting last night. The > > > general response I got was people pointing out that the hardware wasn't > > > that great. I'm sorry, but this really does set a precedent. It's a big > > > deal, and the timing was excellent. Microsoft can't make a strong move > > > against Walmart, not with antitrust accusations hanging over their head. > > > > That's not the reason... M$ gladly f***s Dell and HP right now. The > > reason is that WalMart is bigger than M$. > > Did Dell and HP just start selling Windows-less PCs this week? I admit, > I phrased that wrong. The primary reason is, yes, Walmart is bigger than > Microsoft. But the antitrust cases certainly don't make it any easier for > Microsoft to act the part of the playground bully. > > Jima > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 22 18:58:11 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> References: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: <20020222184454.7e80caf7.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Jeff Schmidt" wrote: > > having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way > the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all 2 > of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, which > is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find more > settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E if that > makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the threshold > settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as high as it > goes. thanks in advance In my experience, mouse movements are generally just `different' and you have to get used to it. That said, there's probably a way to fix it. If you keep having trouble while trying to fiddle with X Windows settings, you might try running the mouse through GPM's repeater device. GPM has a few more things you can twiddle, though I suppose it's not as easy as moving a scrollbar in X. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Vulcans have less fun. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/6e3a76d4/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 22 18:59:03 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Chad C. Walstrom" wrote: > > Anyway, I did end up making my little Reply-To recipe nice and small: Erm, can you explain why Reply-To is so evil? I actually end up doing the opposite and adding Reply-To headers for some mailing lists that I'm on. Actually, I need to use Reply-To at work, since we use Lotus Notes over at the Carlson School. I came in and installed Linux on a system, didn't get around to putting together a Windows box for another year. Due to the annoying way Notes works, I ended up forwarding mail directly to my Linux box. Lotus decided to be `smart' and figured that instead of mhicks@csom.umn.edu, my directory entry should tell people to mail directly to my forwarding address, which ends up being something like mike@[12.34.56.78]. I set a Reply-To address on my outgoing mail (which is probably bad, since some mailing lists won't touch a pre-existing header), so people know to reply to my @csom address rather than my IP. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ The sooner you fall behind, / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ the more time you'll have \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) to catch up. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/7034b699/attachment.pgp From josh at greentechnologist.org Fri Feb 22 19:14:09 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Approximate string matching hints? Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just finished coding up an implementation of the Wu-Manber k-difference approximate string matching algorithm. I'm a little unclear on how much 10% edit distance is ok and whether it might help things to re-run mismatches by swapping the pattern for the text. Ideas? Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8duxrfexLsowstzcRAozGAKDZkABmhLyprMG3DM384gG4RNm28ACaAmaJ VusCDHvi2ZSkueMW6AbIjEo= =iMsd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Feb 22 19:14:55 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <20020222191121.54a53406.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Jima wrote: > > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Steve Grobe wrote: > > First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, > > IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, > > HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, > > and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) > > is offering systems without windows preinstalled. > > Yep. I actually brought this up at the beermeeting last night. The > general response I got was people pointing out that the hardware wasn't > that great. I'm sorry, but this really does set a precedent. It's a big > deal, and the timing was excellent. Microsoft can't make a strong move > against Walmart, not with antitrust accusations hanging over their head. > We'll see how this turns out. I think this is a really interesting move. I wouldn't say that Walmart is my favorite company by any means, but they aren't dumb. I presume they must see a good opportunity here. Also, I understand that a bunch of other manufacturers are getting worried about agreements that Microsoft is cooking up now that the Proposed Final Judgement in the antitrust trial is sort of in effect (by the terms of the PFJ, Microsoft was supposed to start acting like it was in effect in December, even though the judge still hasn't yet accepted the agreement). PC makers are being told that they must allow Microsoft access to the patents the companies hold in order to get into licensing agreements. Somehow, the antitrust case may have made things worse. http://www.vnunet.com/News/1129392 On the flipside, I won't be surprised at all if a number of companies decide to start shipping OS-less machines, or if more and more start offering Linux. I think PC makers are finally getting it in their heads that Microsoft isn't the greatest company there ever was, and are becoming more willing to give MS the finger and go do their own thing. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ I know everything about / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ everything, except that. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020222/62592131/attachment.pgp From mbp at geomtech.com Fri Feb 22 21:40:15 2002 From: mbp at geomtech.com (Mark Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? Message-ID: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> My original Palm Pilot just bit the dust, and I want to replace it with something that will interface well with Linux. I'm interested in hearing about what kinds of handhelds people in the Linux world are using, and how well they interface with Linux. So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have and what you like or don't like about it. In particular, I've been considering one of the Handspring Visor models. Does anyone have any experience, positive or negative, with them? Thanks, --Mark From houle at citilink.com Fri Feb 22 22:47:03 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> Message-ID: Don't know about the interface but there are several Linux PDA's out there. Namely Agenda and Yopy are a couple and don't know if you have looked at them. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mark Phillips > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 9:23 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? > > > My original Palm Pilot just bit the dust, and I want to replace it > with something that will interface well with Linux. I'm interested in > hearing about what kinds of handhelds people in the Linux world are > using, and how well they interface with Linux. > > So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have > and what you like or don't like about it. > --Mark From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Feb 22 23:03:02 2002 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik V. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <000e01c1bbbc$ffd92070$6401a8c0@win2k001> Message-ID: Just thought that I'd throw my first two cents in since joining the list...I've had similar problems w/ gnome and found a solution using the 'xset' program. I know that you can use it to set many of the option in the x server, but I've only used it to adjust the mouse settings. If you load up an xterm and type: $xset m 5 7 the "m" is for mouse settings and I believe that the two following numbers are for the threshold and acceleration. I know that in gnome, you can set these via the gnome control panel, but I've found that using xset give you a bit more control. You can just play with the two numbers and see if you can find a setting that works well for you. Once you find a setting, just have write a little script that runs this command upon gnome startup. Then you won't have to do it manually every time you start up X. -Erik Anderson -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Schmidt Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:22 AM To: [ TCLUG ] Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement having just recently switched from Windows, I'm still not liking the way the mouse moves in Gnome. I've tried adjusting all of the settings (all 2 of them), but I can't seem to get the movement to the way I like it, which is sad to say, Windows-like. Is there anywhere I can go to find more settings that aren't included in the Control Center? I'm using E if that makes a difference. I think I just really don't like the threshold settings. It seems too erratic for me. Even with it set as high as it goes. thanks in advance Jeff From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Feb 22 23:04:09 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> Message-ID: <200202222249.48206@ellegon.com> On Friday 22 February 2002 09:23 pm, you wrote: > My original Palm Pilot just bit the dust, and I want to replace it > with something that will interface well with Linux. I'm interested in > hearing about what kinds of handhelds people in the Linux world are > using, and how well they interface with Linux. > > So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have > and what you like or don't like about it. > > In particular, I've been considering one of the Handspring Visor > models. Does anyone have any experience, positive or negative, with > them? I finally got my Visor, with USB port, working with Linux, but it only works -- for me -- with jpilot and coldsync, as opposed to kpilot. Didn't do anything special -- the upgrade to Mandrake 8.1 was what did it. I haven't yet spent the time or trouble to try to get the Avantgo-type clients working. Not nearly as neat as the integration with Outlook -- and I can't get it to sync with Evolution -- but jpilot, while fairly primitive, does have the essential functions. I'd give it a B-. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From tanner at real-time.com Fri Feb 22 23:54:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com>; from steveg@transition.com on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:48:08AM -0600 References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> Quoting Steve Grobe (steveg@transition.com): > First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, > IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, > HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, > and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) > is offering systems without windows preinstalled. > > http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842375.html > > I see a trend starting here, and I like it. We should have a March-installfest-on-your-walmart PC! Maybe contact the local(?) Walmart and see if we can put something up in the stores about coming to it? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Sat Feb 23 00:48:02 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> Message-ID: <200202240627.g1O6RGi01888@localhost.localdomain> http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/index.asp check the zaurus From tanner at real-time.com Sat Feb 23 00:49:04 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] text windowing environment? Message-ID: <20020223004121.R28355@real-time.com> You know those red and blue text windows that show up when you install redhat linux in text mode? What are they written in? I thought they where written in dialog. But looking on my box at things like netconfig, it's a c program using newt and slang. But other things like up2date are in python. newt looks like it's the low level api for window management. I'm guessing there are several language bindings to newt? Anyone? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From idsfa at visi.com Sat Feb 23 00:50:03 2002 From: idsfa at visi.com (Michael Kellen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement In-Reply-To: <200202230114.g1N1E5018234@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202230114.g1N1E5018234@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1014446637.1035.0.camel@mitethe> On Fri, 2002-02-22 ,"Jeff Schmidt" wrote: > Sorry for not being more clear on this. basically what I'm talking = > about is this. You have 2 settings in the Gnome Control Center for the = > mouse. Acceleration and Threshold. Ah, I see. Well, this is just a gui wrapper around xset(1x), which adjusts the basic parameters of the X Server (the underlying part of the gui that handles the actual screen, as opposed to the window manager (Enlightenment, for example) or the Desktop Environment (GNOME, KDE, etc). To see the values which you currently have set, you can issue the command: $ xset q (with out the $) in a window. This will tell you lots of little bits of useful info. The part you want is the "Pointer Control" section. On my machine, that bit reads: Pointer Control: acceleration: 2/1 threshold: 4 According to the man page: parameters for the mouse are `acceleration' and `threshold'. The acceleration can be specified as an integer, or as a simple fraction. The mouse, or whatever pointer the machine is connected to, will go `acceleration' times as fast when it trav? els more than `threshold' pixels in a short time. This way, the mouse can be used for precise align? ment when it is moved slowly, yet it can be set to travel across the screen in a flick of the wrist when desired. One or both parameters for the m option can be omitted, but if only one is given, it will be interpreted as the acceleration. If no parameters or the flag 'default' is used, the sys? tem defaults will be set. > I don't like the way the cursor will speed up depending on how fast you = > move the mouse. That sounds like you want to set the acceleration to 1. This will cause the pointer to move at exactly the same rate as your mouse. Threshold is irrelevant in that case. The command to do this is: $ xset mouse 1 (again, without the $) If this provides the result you wanted, you will want to make sure that this command is run each time you start your GNOME session. (Probably you will want to read up on gdm). BTW, thanks for asking the question ... I've kicked my accel up to 4 now, which rocks hard on a trackball. ;-) Michael Kellen -- $ fortune -m Kellen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/6b7f3bdb/attachment.pgp From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Sat Feb 23 04:33:13 2002 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Applixware review Message-ID: <20020223022925.10199.c000-h005.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> I read a review of Applixware /Anywhere on linuxplanet this week that says you can access an online demo from their site - should be worth a try! Cheers, Paul > On Friday 22 February 2002 10:31 am, Austad, Jay wrote: > > I used to use Applixware about 5 years ago, and it was a sweet product even > > back then. I would definitely suggest trying it out. > > > > The hancom stuff looks OK, but their professional suite just comes with > > extra stuff that you can download for free from thekompany.com. > > > > If I were to blindly pick one though, it would definitely be Applixware. From j at 4dvfx.com Sat Feb 23 09:34:03 2002 From: j at 4dvfx.com (Jeff Schmidt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mouse movement References: <200202230114.g1N1E5018234@sprite.real-time.com> <1014446637.1035.0.camel@mitethe> Message-ID: <001501c1bc7e$364f4370$6401a8c0@win2k001> That's exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you for the help. Jeff On Fri, 2002-02-22 ,"Jeff Schmidt" wrote: > Sorry for not being more clear on this. basically what I'm talking = > about is this. You have 2 settings in the Gnome Control Center for the = > mouse. Acceleration and Threshold. Ah, I see. Well, this is just a gui wrapper around xset(1x), which adjusts the basic parameters of the X Server (the underlying part of the gui that handles the actual screen, as opposed to the window manager (Enlightenment, for example) or the Desktop Environment (GNOME, KDE, etc). To see the values which you currently have set, you can issue the command: $ xset q (with out the $) in a window. This will tell you lots of little bits of useful info. The part you want is the "Pointer Control" section. On my machine, that bit reads: Pointer Control: acceleration: 2/1 threshold: 4 According to the man page: parameters for the mouse are `acceleration' and `threshold'. The acceleration can be specified as an integer, or as a simple fraction. The mouse, or whatever pointer the machine is connected to, will go `acceleration' times as fast when it trav? els more than `threshold' pixels in a short time. This way, the mouse can be used for precise align? ment when it is moved slowly, yet it can be set to travel across the screen in a flick of the wrist when desired. One or both parameters for the m option can be omitted, but if only one is given, it will be interpreted as the acceleration. If no parameters or the flag 'default' is used, the sys? tem defaults will be set. > I don't like the way the cursor will speed up depending on how fast you = > move the mouse. That sounds like you want to set the acceleration to 1. This will cause the pointer to move at exactly the same rate as your mouse. Threshold is irrelevant in that case. The command to do this is: $ xset mouse 1 (again, without the $) If this provides the result you wanted, you will want to make sure that this command is run each time you start your GNOME session. (Probably you will want to read up on gdm). BTW, thanks for asking the question ... I've kicked my accel up to 4 now, which rocks hard on a trackball. ;-) Michael Kellen -- $ fortune -m Kellen From gsker at tcfreenet.org Sat Feb 23 10:10:06 2002 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (gsker@tcfreenet.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Terry Houle wrote: > Don't know about the interface but there are several Linux PDA's out there. > Namely Agenda and Yopy are a couple and don't know if you have looked at > them. But don't expect that just because they're Linux based that they interface any better with the Linux desktop. I have an Agenda VR3 and it never did sync very well with anything. You can get stuff onto it via rsync and there is a half done syncing tool but it takes a lot of tweaking. I didn't buy it as a PDA, but rather as a "development" machine. PalmOS is still way ahead of the game in syncing with Linux apps. We have two of those in the house and I love the ability to script what I want done with the synced data on the desktop side. BTW agenda is dead in the USA. Still going, (but I don't know how strongly) in Deutchland. www.agendacomputing.de. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org From dante at plethora.net Sat Feb 23 10:10:59 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020222191121.54a53406.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > Jima wrote: > > On the flipside, I won't be surprised at all if a number of companies > decide to start shipping OS-less machines, or if more and more start > offering Linux. I think PC makers are finally getting it in their heads > that Microsoft isn't the greatest company there ever was, and are becoming > more willing to give MS the finger and go do their own thing. > Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. The original IBM PC was shipped with either MSDOS or CPM, not exclusively MSDOS (IIRC). The reason MSDOS won out was it was ~$40 less expensive. CPM was significantly better than the early versions of MSDOS. Apply the same logic to MSWindows vs. Linux, and you see that as soon as enough of the major vendors take off the blindfolds they have put on themselves and do the math they will be shipping OSless and Linux boxes in steadily increasing numbers. Regardless of how "ready" Linux is. The upper management at WalMart don't know computers, but they do know their math. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From cbidler at innominatus.com Sat Feb 23 10:25:29 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (Chris Johnson Bidler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> <200202222249.48206@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <3C77BFA7.7030208@innominatus.com> Joel Rosenberg wrote: >On Friday 22 February 2002 09:23 pm, you wrote: > >>My original Palm Pilot just bit the dust, and I want to replace it >>with something that will interface well with Linux. I'm interested in >>hearing about what kinds of handhelds people in the Linux world are >>using, and how well they interface with Linux. >> >>So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have >>and what you like or don't like about it. >> >>In particular, I've been considering one of the Handspring Visor >>models. Does anyone have any experience, positive or negative, with >>them? >> > >I finally got my Visor, with USB port, working with Linux, but it only works >-- for me -- with jpilot and coldsync, as opposed to kpilot. Didn't do >anything special -- the upgrade to Mandrake 8.1 was what did it. > >I haven't yet spent the time or trouble to try to get the Avantgo-type >clients working. > >Not nearly as neat as the integration with Outlook -- and I can't get it to >sync with Evolution -- but jpilot, while fairly primitive, does have the >essential functions. > >I'd give it a B-. > As a fellow Visor/USB user, I'd just like to note how *weird* the Visor system setup is. The reason it won't work with kpilot, for example, is that the Visor USB device doesn't "exist" from your kernel's point of view except for the brief window of time when the Visor is actively attempting to sync with the box. I have actually gotten kpilot to grab some backup data, but it's an exercise in hand-eye coordination, as you have to hit the hotsync button, then start kpilotd *and* kpilot, and order kpilot to start a backup, all before the Visor kernel module decides there's nobody home (which takes about 3 seconds, long before the Visor itself times out). Even with jpilot, which I find to be a reasonable replacement for the Palm Desktop software, one must 1)fire up jpilot and position the mouse pointer over the 'sync' button, 2)hit the hotsync button on the cradle, and 3)hit 'sync' in the 3-second window while the device exists, and before the connection gets wonky! I love my Visor, would love an iPaq running Linux on a microdrive or one of the new Sharp Zauruses more. But, if you go with a Visor, I would humbly suggest getting an extra serial-port hotsync cradle. The data transfer may be slower, but the number of headaches you avoid by having a /dev/pilot that is actually present on the system at all times might be worth it. From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sat Feb 23 10:26:21 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] text windowing environment? In-Reply-To: <20020223004121.R28355@real-time.com> References: <20020223004121.R28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: <35731.65.25.218.252.1014481295.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> I was told a long time ago it was ncurses.... -munir > You know those red and blue text windows that show up when you > install redhat linux in text mode? > > What are they written in? From esper at sherohman.org Sat Feb 23 10:41:04 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:39:43PM -0600 References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:39:43PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > Erm, can you explain why Reply-To is so evil? Go ask google to tell you about "reply-to considered harmful". Short version: Most mail clients have separate 'reply to sender' and 'reply to sender and all recipients' commands. Some (like mutt) even have a third option, 'reply to mailing list'. Many people think that lists should not override 'reply to sender' to mean 'reply to list' - if the user wants to send a reply back to the list, he has other commands available for that purpose. > I set a Reply-To address on my outgoing mail (which is probably bad, since > some mailing lists won't touch a pre-existing header), so people know to > reply to my @csom address rather than my IP. No, you've got it backwards. I've never heard anyone complain that individual users shouldn't add reply-to headers. The lists in question are broken by adding reply-to headers to (most) list mail and doing so in a manner which doesn't take situations like yours (you add a reply-to header, but don't want to prevent replies to the list) into account. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Feb 23 11:36:55 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <3C77BFA7.7030208@innominatus.com> References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> <200202222249.48206@ellegon.com> <3C77BFA7.7030208@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <200202231129.52610@ellegon.com> On Saturday 23 February 2002 10:13 am, Chris Johnson Bidler wrote: > Joel Rosenberg wrote: > >On Friday 22 February 2002 09:23 pm, you wrote: > >>My original Palm Pilot just bit the dust, and I want to replace it > >>with something that will interface well with Linux. I'm interested in > >>hearing about what kinds of handhelds people in the Linux world are > >>using, and how well they interface with Linux. > >> > >>So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have > >>and what you like or don't like about it. > >> > >>In particular, I've been considering one of the Handspring Visor > >>models. Does anyone have any experience, positive or negative, with > >>them? > > > >I finally got my Visor, with USB port, working with Linux, but it only > > works -- for me -- with jpilot and coldsync, as opposed to kpilot. > > Didn't do anything special -- the upgrade to Mandrake 8.1 was what did > > it. > > > >I haven't yet spent the time or trouble to try to get the Avantgo-type > >clients working. > > > >Not nearly as neat as the integration with Outlook -- and I can't get it > > to sync with Evolution -- but jpilot, while fairly primitive, does have > > the essential functions. > > > >I'd give it a B-. > > As a fellow Visor/USB user, I'd just like to note how *weird* the Visor > system setup is. The reason it won't work with kpilot, for example, is > that the Visor USB device doesn't "exist" from your kernel's point of > view except for the brief window of time when the Visor is actively > attempting to sync with the box. I have actually gotten kpilot to grab > some backup data, but it's an exercise in hand-eye coordination, as you > have to hit the hotsync button, then start kpilotd *and* kpilot, and > order kpilot to start a backup, all before the Visor kernel module > decides there's nobody home (which takes about 3 seconds, long before > the Visor itself times out). Even with jpilot, which I find to be a > reasonable replacement for the Palm Desktop software, one must 1)fire up > jpilot and position the mouse pointer over the 'sync' button, 2)hit the > hotsync button on the cradle, and 3)hit 'sync' in the 3-second window > while the device exists, and before the connection gets wonky! > Yup. > I love my Visor, would love an iPaq running Linux on a microdrive or one > of the new Sharp Zauruses more. But, if you go with a Visor, I would > humbly suggest getting an extra serial-port hotsync cradle. The data > transfer may be slower, but the number of headaches you avoid by having > a /dev/pilot that is actually present on the system at all times might > be worth it. > Yup. I thought about doing that, but decided against it -- I don't actually have a serial port configured on my Linux box (my mouse and printer are USB), and I'm concerned that the hassle involved in getting it configured (probably not a big deal) and then trying to get kpilot and the Visor to talk together wouldn't be worth it. But jpilot does work, and is good enough. Coldsync also works, and I've no objection at all to command line stuff, but there isn't -- as far as I know -- an obvious way to get Korganizer data into Palm/visor format, so all I can really do with coldsync is backup the Visor, and jpilot does that, too. But good enough is Good Enough. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 23 13:02:29 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020223124932.7a0891c5.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Dave Sherohman wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:39:43PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > > Erm, can you explain why Reply-To is so evil? > > Go ask google to tell you about "reply-to considered harmful". > > Short version: Most mail clients have separate 'reply to sender' and > 'reply to sender and all recipients' commands. Some (like mutt) even > have a third option, 'reply to mailing list'. Many people think that > lists should not override 'reply to sender' to mean 'reply to list' - > if the user wants to send a reply back to the list, he has other > commands available for that purpose. Ah, I see. Too bad most mailers aren't that smart -- I could see the benefit in that. I know I've been annoyed when I actually wanted to reply directly to the author of a message, but the Reply-To got in the way. Even clicking Reply All didn't add their address to the list of recipients. However, until I see more mail clients supporting the mailing list headers properly, I'd definitely advocate Reply-To munging. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. E-mail clients have been reinvented many times, and there's another ongoing cycle with web mail. Has anyone else noticed that Hotmail doesn't even seem to set In-Reply-To or References headers anymore? That's pretty sad, IMHO.. At least Lotus Notes finally seems to have gotten rid of the bug where replying to a message would reply to the address in the Sender header field. Now, I wonder if anyone can convince me that replying above quoted messages (like what most `groupware' clients do these days) is a good thing ;-) -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If everything seems to be / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ working, you obviously \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) missed something. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/ff0d88b1/attachment.pgp From fertch at mninter.net Sat Feb 23 13:33:01 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question Message-ID: <20020223132341.33d1e9ab.fertch@mninter.net> Okay, I'm reading DNS/Bind by O'Rielly. I'm going through setting up all of my db.domain files per the book. I get to the point of getting it up and running, yet it failed. Named starts and continues to run, however when I do a tail of the syslog, I get a no "TTL specified" for all of my db files. Yet, I do have it specified. Here's the beginning of one of my files: 192.168.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA host.domain.org. e.mail.address. ( 1 ;Serial 10800 ;Refresh after 3 hours 3600 ;Retry after 1 hour 604800 ;Expire after 1 week 86400) ;Minimum TTL of 1 day What I'm curious is, is there something I mistyped? I went per the book, and everything looks correct. However, the book is for Bind8 and Bind 9 is on the server. Is there that much of a difference to cause this issue? Thanks, Shawn From idsfa at visi.com Sat Feb 23 13:33:53 2002 From: idsfa at visi.com (Michael Kellen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1014492737.1335.0.camel@mitethe> On Sat, 2002-02-23, Chris Johnson Bidler wrote: > As a fellow Visor/USB user, I'd just like to note how *weird* the Visor > system setup is. The reason it won't work with kpilot, for example, is > that the Visor USB device doesn't "exist" from your kernel's point of > view except for the brief window of time when the Visor is actively > attempting to sync with the box. Have you tried the LONG_TIMEOUT kernel option? USB long timeout for slow-responding devices (some MGE Ellipse UPSes) CONFIG_USB_LONG_TIMEOUT This option makes the standard time out a bit longer. Basically, some devices are just slow to respond, so this makes usb more patient. There should be no harm in selecting this, but it is needed for some MGE Ellipse UPSes. If you have an MGE Ellipse UPS, or you see timeouts in HID transactions, say Y; otherwise say N. I'm curious to see if this helps. I've never managed to get USB of any sort working on my lemon of a Motherboard, so I cannot test it. I use a Visor with Serial Sync. Works fine with evolution. I also strongly recommend the sitescooper and plucker apps to keep your handheld's memory full of articles to read during meetings. Michael Kellen -- $ fortune -m Kellen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/0473b6e1/attachment.pgp From jim at herrick.net Sat Feb 23 13:51:04 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question References: <20020223132341.33d1e9ab.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <015201c1bca2$78af4200$0100a8c0@host209> You need a "zone" default TTL at the top of the file. The first line should read: $ttl 86400 or using some other value. This is required because each resource record in the zone must have a TTL and uses the default TTL, unless you specify one for said record. Right? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Fertch" To: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:23 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question > Okay, I'm reading DNS/Bind by O'Rielly. I'm going through setting up all > of my db.domain files per the book. I get to the point of getting it up > and running, yet it failed. Named starts and continues to run, however > when I do a tail of the syslog, I get a no "TTL specified" for all of my > db files. Yet, I do have it specified. Here's the beginning of one of my > files: > > 192.168.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA host.domain.org. e.mail.address. ( > 1 ;Serial > 10800 ;Refresh after 3 hours > 3600 ;Retry after 1 hour > 604800 ;Expire after 1 week > 86400) ;Minimum TTL of 1 day > > What I'm curious is, is there something I mistyped? I went per the book, > and everything looks correct. However, the book is for Bind8 and Bind 9 > is on the server. Is there that much of a difference to cause this issue? > > > Thanks, > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Sat Feb 23 14:08:02 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020223135638.A17452@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:53:06PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Steve Grobe (steveg@transition.com): > > First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, > > IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, > > HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, > > and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) > > is offering systems without windows preinstalled. > > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842375.html > > > > I see a trend starting here, and I like it. > > We should have a March-installfest-on-your-walmart PC! > > Maybe contact the local(?) Walmart and see if we can put something up in the > stores about coming to it? Please don't! Personally, I hate Walmart more than Microsoft. Maybe try to find a small re-seller to run a program like this through, but please don't give Walmart free advertising. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Feb 23 14:44:53 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1014492737.1335.0.camel@mitethe> References: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> <1014492737.1335.0.camel@mitethe> Message-ID: <200202231439.54891@ellegon.com> On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:32 pm, Michael Kellen wrote: > I use a Visor with Serial Sync. Works fine with evolution. I also > strongly recommend the sitescooper and plucker apps to keep your > handheld's memory full of articles to read during meetings. > > Michael Kellen Anybody know if there's equivalents that work with jpilot? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From seehow at bitstream.net Sat Feb 23 16:24:03 2002 From: seehow at bitstream.net (Christopher Howard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Language CD Project, looking for programmers... Message-ID: <000601c1bc70$2ffc2fa0$a0effea9@x> We are also looking for spaces to use these computers. Like I say below, there will be multiple language groups working separately. I have some flyers made up. I just have to talk with some one over at the church to expand the potluck to 3 hours and to make it monthly. ---the contents of the flyer--- The Collective Sage is organizing the creation of audio CD's that teach language and culture through the use of fables. Storytellers, Musicians, and Translators of all languages are invited to The Language CD Potluck Breakfast every 2nd and 4th Saturday of the month 11am to 2pm at the Walker Church 3104 16th Avenue South in Minneapolis. (down stairs in the dining room) For more information call Christopher @ 612-874-7005 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Howard" To: Sent: Friday, 22 February, 2002 05:19 Subject: [Demudi-user] Demudi Programers in the Twin Cities We are looking for programmers in the Twin Cities area who would like to help set up computers to do audio editing. The computers will be donated, so they may all be different. (know any one who will donate?) The idea is to create a set of audio CD's that teach a language with the use of fables, for each language in the Twin Cities. The whole process will also help build friendships across cultural boundaries. The CD set would start off with something like greetings and counting from 1 to 10, then cut out into a few minutes of fable. Then more words and phrases, then fable again, back and forth and so on. After an English-as-a-first-language person listens a dozen times the fables start to make sense. I'd like the fables to be really good audio drama, with sound affects and ethnic music, exposing the listener to a culture, not just teaching a language. We are currently organizing potlucks over at the Walker Church (Saturday March 9th and 23rd 11:30am to 1:30pm {maybe it should be an hour longer, the second and fourth Saturdays of every month}), to gather the people together to make it happen. The CD's will be published under the OpenMusic License so they can be copied and redistributed by any one. Every library in the area will get a set or two of each. Using Free Software is much preferable in this project because there will be multiple language groups working in parallel and it will be very much publicized. We don't want any bad scenes happening over commercial software, plus it just fits in with the idea. Also we would like to know the minimum amount of computer to ask for while seeking donations. The machines will be dedicated to the task of working on a two or four CD set, and they may have to be shared by a few language groups (more than one set at a time). I figure 200mhz with 64mb, a Linux compatible sound card, a CD burner, and at least an 8GB hard drive (can we put more than one sound card in one machine?). We'll need a good mike for each. We are also looking for people who have experience in creating radio drama. It will be a fun project, and it may last a couple years. Anyone interested? _______________________________________________ Demudi-user mailing list Demudi-user@demudi.org http://iuamtg.upf.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/demudi-user From gsker at mediaone.net Sat Feb 23 16:25:15 2002 From: gsker at mediaone.net (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Terry Houle wrote: > Don't know about the interface but there are several Linux PDA's out there. > Namely Agenda and Yopy are a couple and don't know if you have looked at > them. But don't expect that just because they're Linux based that they interface any better with the Linux desktop. I have an Agenda VR3 and it never did sync very well with anything. You can get stuff onto it via rsync and there is a half done syncing tool but it takes a lot of tweaking. I didn't buy it as a PDA, but rather as a "development" machine. PalmOS is still way ahead of the game in syncing with Linux apps. We have two of those in the house and I love the ability to script what I want done with the synced data on the desktop side. BTW agenda is dead in the USA. Still going, (but I don't know how strongly) in Deutchland. www.agendacomputing.de. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Feb 23 16:26:05 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: handheld recommendations? References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> Message-ID: <3C780920.2050601@ringworld.org> Mark Phillips wrote: > So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have > and what you like or don't like about it. My Handera 330(PalmOS based) (www.handera.com) has some pretty nifty features like a high resolution screen, very long lasting lithium ion battery, and the capibility for SD/MMC and CompactFlash cards. Also, it works with Palm/PalmIII accessories. 33mhz Dragonball processor, 8mb ram. I use the SD/MMC socket to keep a flash card that I backup the 8mb of ram to periodically, so if my palm dies on the road I can just reload it after it gets a charge. Theres also a voice recorder, but I dont use it much. The voice recorder can record to SD/MMC or CompactFlash. The CompactFlash socket also accepts 802.11 cards. Downsides: non-high-res-enabled apps can be scaled to the higher res, but some apps have to be ran in a smaller windowed mode so they dont crash. network applications for the palm are ok at best. blazer is a good web browser, but doesn't work in high-res, and upirc is a great high-res enabled IRC client. SSH clients are still low res, but work. This doesn't keep me from using it on the way into work on the bus though. The upside of the device: clear screen, same form factor as a palm III, rabid peer support on some yahoo groups, the company that makes it has excellent customer support. Its still palmos, which actually has lots of useful apps for it. (the high-res mapping program mapopolis is awesome to have.) Still uses high-speed serial, so its easy to hack onto things and also easy to use with linux. Yeah, its not linux, but the linux PDA's just dont have that out-of-the-box can-do-anything that palmos has still. Perhaps that will change in a couple years, but palmos works for me still. -- Scott Dier From tanner at real-time.com Sat Feb 23 16:40:06 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020223135638.A17452@baker.space.umn.edu>; from crumley@belka.space.umn.edu on Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:56:39PM -0600 References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> <20020223135638.A17452@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020223162545.I28355@real-time.com> Quoting Jim Crumley (crumley@belka.space.umn.edu): > Please don't! Personally, I hate Walmart more than Microsoft. > > Maybe try to find a small re-seller to run a program like this > through, but please don't give Walmart free advertising. What does hating walmart have to do with promoting linux? I use to dislike IBM, but now I rather like them. This is not a troll, I'm curious. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sat Feb 23 17:13:03 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020223162545.I28355@real-time.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> <20020223135638.A17452@baker.space.umn.edu> <20020223162545.I28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1014506264.1500.6.camel@yafa> I hate Wal-Mart as well. So? Installing Linux on machines wherever they are from is a good thing. If Wal-Mart start selling OS-less PC's and allows a LUG to perform free Linux installs at their stores then what harm is there? A few years down the line we'll see more OS-less machines everywhere as prices drop a few USD's... Personally I always have Wednesday's off. I'd be happy to camp at a local Wal-Mart and install Red Hat for a few hours every day. I'd be interested to see how well the hardware is supported in Linux though. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/8d0a2142/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Sat Feb 23 17:47:01 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020223162545.I28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: I dislike Wal-Mart a lot also and don't want to steer business their way. But when the trade off is Linux or Wal-Mart I would probably lean toward using them to promote the Linux even if they do benefit. Also I would hope as Wal-Mart goes so goes the rest of the retail world. > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob Tanner > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 4:26 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax > > Quoting Jim Crumley (crumley@belka.space.umn.edu): > > Please don't! Personally, I hate Walmart more than Microsoft. > > > > Maybe try to find a small re-seller to run a program like this > > through, but please don't give Walmart free advertising. > > What does hating walmart have to do with promoting linux? > > I use to dislike IBM, but now I rather like them. > > This is not a troll, I'm curious. > > From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Feb 23 18:31:59 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache error logs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20011031103419.067c71c2.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Munir Nassar wrote: > > For a couple of days now i have been getting wierd errors in my Apache > logs, mostly people doing a GET /dir/cmd.exe, or root.exe Just a few days? What corner of the Internet are you hiding in? I want to go there so I don't have other people chewing up my bandwidth ;-) Most folks have been getting stuff like that for months. It's become the background radiation of the Internet. It also means that you *cannot* install IIS while a host is connected to the Internet. It doesn't take long at all for a new host to get > don't these people check the server strings? I may be inexperienced but i > am not brain dead enough to run IIS. or just even plain windows. Naw, that'd be too nice! The guys who wrote these worms just wanted them to spread as fast as possible. They just didn't worry about what would happen if they came across a non-vulnerable system. Therefore, one of the more interesting things to do would be to get a `tarpit' program that will allow the remote host to open a connection, but then won't send any other data. The infected host will (hopefully) get slowed down by this. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Error 008: Remove aluminum / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ foil, remote control \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) devices and spleen. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/eb0ad851/attachment.pgp From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sat Feb 23 18:58:02 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Building Your Own Linux Message-ID: <1014512313.1500.28.camel@yafa> I came across this link: http://www.byolinux.org/ the site explains how to build a linux system from scratch. It might be a good way for semi-newbies to know the guts of their system. It goes step-by-step and has screen shots. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/2b05ea6e/attachment.pgp From dane at sihope.com Sat Feb 23 18:58:57 2002 From: dane at sihope.com (Dan Empanger) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question References: <20020223132341.33d1e9ab.fertch@mninter.net> Message-ID: <007601c1bcce$f03b7d80$0200000a@sihope.com> go to their web site and check for corrections, etc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Fertch" To: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:23 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question > Okay, I'm reading DNS/Bind by O'Rielly. I'm going through setting up all > of my db.domain files per the book. I get to the point of getting it up > and running, yet it failed. Named starts and continues to run, however > when I do a tail of the syslog, I get a no "TTL specified" for all of my > db files. Yet, I do have it specified. Here's the beginning of one of my > files: > > 192.168.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA host.domain.org. e.mail.address. ( > 1 ;Serial > 10800 ;Refresh after 3 hours > 3600 ;Retry after 1 hour > 604800 ;Expire after 1 week > 86400) ;Minimum TTL of 1 day > > What I'm curious is, is there something I mistyped? I went per the book, > and everything looks correct. However, the book is for Bind8 and Bind 9 > is on the server. Is there that much of a difference to cause this issue? > > > Thanks, > > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dutchman at uswest.net Sat Feb 23 18:59:46 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy Message-ID: <3C783979.1A857BEF@mn.uswest.net> The other day, I started up my box and my mouse plug must not have been all the way in (kids!). Kudzu (RH 7.2) detected that I had no mouse and asked me if I wanted to remove the driver. I said 'Do Nothing', made sure that the plug was seated and recycled the computer. Ever since then, I have not been able to use the modem. When I try to dial out, it states that the resource is busy. Short of removing and reinstalling the modem, is there any way to clear this resource conflict? -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Feb 23 19:32:01 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Building Your Own Linux In-Reply-To: <1014512313.1500.28.camel@yafa> References: <1014512313.1500.28.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <200202231914.51699@ellegon.com> On Saturday 23 February 2002 06:58 pm, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > I came across this link: http://www.byolinux.org/ the site explains how > to build a linux system from scratch. > > It might be a good way for semi-newbies to know the guts of their > system. > > It goes step-by-step and has screen shots. There's also Linux From Scratch and Gentoo, which are in many ways the same thing, so I understand. Probably a very good idea for hobbyist semi-newbies, as you suggest, but -- based on a SWAG -- probably not the best way for somebody who wants to get a system up and doing stuff to start. If I ever develop some free time -- what a concept! -- I'd be tempted to build a Gentoo system, if only for the coolness of both roll-your-own, and have-the-latest-versions-compiled-and-optimized-for-my-own system factors. In the meantime, I'm likely to stick with Mandrake, which serves my needs pretty well. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From seehow at bitstream.net Sat Feb 23 19:33:01 2002 From: seehow at bitstream.net (Christopher Howard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Language CD Project, looking for programmers... References: <040414323231722FE4@mail4.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <001301c1bcd0$c30ccce0$a0effea9@x> No. It means (for me at least) to bring people together from many different cultures to work on a fun project. I'd like to know more languages. I only know English, my girlfriend knows Spanish and some French, and right now she is in Japan teaching English to little kids, I've got to catch up! (most kids in the world know more than one language, but not American kids). The Walker Church is letting us use the space, it's not their project, but they do like the idea. The Collective Sage is working on this project. Don't be afraid of the Walker Church, it's just a community center that some people go to on Sundays for spiritual stuff. They are dedicated to the community, not to "Saving" people from "Sin". Their not even all Christians! (there is more than one religion over there, no, only one, love) KFAI radio started out there with a tiny little setup that broad casted a few blocks. The Heart Of The Beast Theater started there too, you know, the people that host the May Day Festival. They have helped many other groups start out also. Just the potlucks will be over there. We'll have to find other places to set up audio editing computers. I don't know where yet. I have a cafe in mind that is closed in the evenings, haven't talked with them yet. I don't even know what fables. Thats not up to me, I'm just the focalizer, not a leader. My job it to provide spaces and the tools, to provide technical support, and the project it self. I sent a message to this group because I know I need help setting up the computers. Setting up DeMuDi machines will be a fun project for a Linux group, I'm sure. I'm also getting a hold of people who have experience in radio drama. I'm sure they would like to know about how cheap and easy it is to set up a recording studio using free software and second hand computers. I really like radio drama (audio theater?), except I heard a cop show once, it was just as lame as a TV cop show. I like Ruby, The Galactic Gumshoe. check out www.zbs.org They got style! There is also 2000X wich does a lot of old sci-fi stuff from way hela long time ago, like the 20's and 30's. They have a more serious style, no comedy. So, a few Linux folks, some radio drama people, and a bunch of immigrant storytellers and musicians, We'll produce some works of art that will be educational and free. The Collective Sage is sort of a "Free Education Foundation" that will start projects like this. Once we are a non profit we'll get a hold of a space that will be dedicated to free classes, so any one in the community can hold what ever classes they want (like how to install Linux on that old PC you found in the ally). The Collective Sage, right now, is just me. There are a few people who are interested in helping me get things going. The only thing is that I work on an organic farm, and this time of year is very busy in the greenhouses. (Fat overtime check at the end of may after 6 70 hour weeks!) But between planting and harvest I'll have more time to play. Www.CollectiveSage.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Burns" To: "Christopher Howard" Sent: Saturday, 23 February, 2002 17:26 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] The Language CD Project, looking for programmers... Does "teaching language and culture through the use of fables" translate to "imposing religion on people trying to learn a language?" - Jared On Saturday 23 February 2002 07:43 am, you wrote: > We are also looking for spaces to use these computers. Like I say below, > there will be multiple language groups working separately. I have some > flyers made up. I just have to talk with some one over at the church to > expand the potluck to 3 hours and to make it monthly. > > > ---the contents of the flyer--- > > The Collective Sage is organizing > the creation of audio CD's that > teach language and culture through > the use of fables. > > Storytellers, Musicians, and Translators > of all languages are invited to > The Language CD Potluck Breakfast > every 2nd and 4th Saturday of the month > 11am to 2pm at the Walker Church > 3104 16th Avenue South in Minneapolis. > (down stairs in the dining room) > > For more information call > Christopher @ 612-874-7005 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Howard" > To: > Sent: Friday, 22 February, 2002 05:19 > Subject: [Demudi-user] Demudi Programers in the Twin Cities > > > We are looking for programmers in the Twin Cities area who would like to > help set up computers to do audio editing. The computers will be donated, > so they may all be different. (know any one who will donate?) > > The idea is to create a set of audio CD's that teach a language with the > use of fables, for each language in the Twin Cities. The whole process > will also help build friendships across cultural boundaries. > > The CD set would start off with something like greetings and counting from > 1 to 10, then cut out into a few minutes of fable. Then more words and > phrases, then fable again, back and forth and so on. After an > English-as-a-first-language person listens a dozen times the fables start > to make sense. I'd like the fables to be really good audio drama, with > sound affects and ethnic music, exposing the listener to a culture, not > just teaching a language. > > We are currently organizing potlucks over at the Walker Church (Saturday > March 9th and 23rd 11:30am to 1:30pm {maybe it should be an hour longer, > the second and fourth Saturdays of every month}), to gather the people > together to make it happen. The CD's will be published under the OpenMusic > License so they can be copied and redistributed by any one. Every library > in the area will get a set or two of each. > > Using Free Software is much preferable in this project because there will > be multiple language groups working in parallel and it will be very much > publicized. We don't want any bad scenes happening over commercial > software, plus it just fits in with the idea. Also we would like to know > the minimum amount of computer to ask for while seeking donations. The > machines will be dedicated to the task of working on a two or four CD set, > and they may have to be shared by a few language groups (more than one set > at a time). I figure 200mhz with 64mb, a Linux compatible sound card, a CD > burner, and at least an 8GB hard drive (can we put more than one sound card > in one machine?). We'll need a good mike for each. > > We are also looking for people who have experience in creating radio drama. > It will be a fun project, and it may last a couple years. > > Anyone interested? From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Feb 23 20:09:02 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02022319545800.10703@edith> Yes, As an Agenda user, I agree. If you wish to get a geek toy that you can set up a ppp link (or buy the serial to Ethernet adapter), and display x apps on your workstation from the PDA, you should avoid it (or run a web server, or ssh to your pda, or blah blah blah....) It has some apps that will synch with the agenda desktop, and this works well, but if you just want a simple calendar reminder / contacts machine, go with a cheaper pda! Some developers still exist (the developer list moved to another server as the USA Agenda group died off last December). Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 23 February 2002 09:53, Gerry Skerbitz wrote: > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Terry Houle wrote: > > Don't know about the interface but there are several Linux PDA's out > > there. Namely Agenda and Yopy are a couple and don't know if you have > > looked at them. > > But don't expect that just because they're Linux based that they interface > any better with the Linux desktop. I have an Agenda VR3 and it never did > sync very well with anything. You can get stuff onto it via rsync and > there is a half done syncing tool but it takes a lot of tweaking. I didn't > buy it as a PDA, but rather as a "development" machine. > > PalmOS is still way ahead of the game in syncing with Linux apps. We have > two of those in the house and I love the ability to script what I want done > with the synced data on the desktop side. > > BTW agenda is dead in the USA. Still going, > (but I don't know how strongly) in Deutchland. www.agendacomputing.de. > > -- > Gerry Skerbitz > gsker@tcfreenet.org From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Feb 23 20:09:58 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Terry Houle wrote: > I dislike Wal-Mart a lot also and don't want to steer business their way. > But when the trade off is Linux or Wal-Mart I would probably lean toward > using them to promote the Linux even if they do benefit. Also I would hope > as Wal-Mart goes so goes the rest of the retail world. Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the heck do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates them worse than Microsoft"? Sure, I'll take Target over Walmart if given the option, but I'm not to the point of badmouthing Wlamart for any reason. Just makes me curious... :-) -Brian From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Feb 23 20:10:52 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202231129.52610@ellegon.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Joel Rosenberg wrote: Dude!!! you might want to trim your posts there a bit. I counted 65:12 noise:line ratio. Seriously... -Brian From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Feb 23 20:11:50 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: <02022320045701.10703@edith> Great idea. I don't think WallMart is the most evil think under the sun. I think they could help get GNU/Linux, OpenBSD, etc.. out to a few more people. If that lets them sell more OS-less PC's and lowers the cost per machine, I would be all for that as well. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Friday 22 February 2002 23:53, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Steve Grobe (steveg@transition.com): > > First Dell sells systems with Linux preinstalled, > > IBM starts selling mainframes with Linux, > > HP starts supporting Linux on some workstations, > > and now Walmart (the largest company in the world) > > is offering systems without windows preinstalled. > > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842375.html > > > > I see a trend starting here, and I like it. > > We should have a March-installfest-on-your-walmart PC! > > Maybe contact the local(?) Walmart and see if we can put something up in > the stores about coming to it? From tanner at real-time.com Sat Feb 23 20:26:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Request to mailing list tclug-list rejected In-Reply-To: ; from lbehrens@boolion.com on Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 07:22:12PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020223201931.U31720@real-time.com> Quoting Lee J. Behrens (lbehrens@boolion.com): > Forget it.... I think it's because I'm subscribed as tclug@boolion.com not > lbehrens@boolion.com. > > Anyway, the mailman pages on the website are DEAD (as of 2/23/2002 7:25pm). Try a web browser other then IE. There is a bug in IE that does not handle self-signed CERTS right. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sat Feb 23 20:43:03 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart and labor WAS: walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014518568.1499.45.camel@yafa> Brian, Well the impression I get from Wal-Mart is that their labor practices and race relations are not the best. Some news reports I read allege disregard for harrasment complaints as well as anti-union stances. This could very well be wrong. In any case this is not a disqualifier. It would be easier to convince Wal-Mart to allow the LUG to set shop installing linux than to convince Target to start selling OS-less boxes and then convince them to let us set up shop. In the case of Linux on would hope that a good success rate of convincing people to install Linux would prompt other chains of doing the same. Then this could be a bargaining point with Wal-Mart. Of course, this is all premature I guess until we know for sure whether we would want to approach Wal-Mart. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020223/4011303c/attachment.pgp From Ben at Workscited.Net Sat Feb 23 20:43:55 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> Message-ID: <200202240232.g1O2WD002308@sprite.real-time.com> On Friday 22 February 2002 21:23, you wrote: > So I'd appreciate anyone responding with stories about what you have > and what you like or don't like about it. > > In particular, I've been considering one of the Handspring Visor > models. Does anyone have any experience, positive or negative, with > them? I'll see the the B- ranking of Visor + jpilot for connectivity and raise it to a B+. Once I realized that I had to wait a second or so for Mandrake to recognize the new USB device before telling jpilot to look for it, jpilot became effortless to use. The main problem is that it only synchronizes the four basic Palm OS programs (and installs new software); it doesn't seem to back up your databases from other programs you've installed, or even the other built-in Palm OS programs such as Mail and Expense. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure. And I haven't seen any "conduit" programs floating around to add functionality to jpilot. (The solution of course is not to put anything important in the databases that don't get backed up.) I think the biggest advantage of Palm OS over handheld Linux and whatever Windows CE is being called these days is that it's so incredibly easy to use, and the basic programs are quick and easy to synchronize. And the Visor's Springport is great, too. But I think what Palm OS needs for any desktop platform is a good emulator, so that you can back up all your programs *and* run them on the desktop machine. I'm not offering to write this emulator, but I will beta test it. :-) --Ben From Ben at Workscited.Net Sat Feb 23 20:59:03 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202231439.54891@ellegon.com> References: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> <1014492737.1335.0.camel@mitethe> <200202231439.54891@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <200202240244.g1O2iR002428@sprite.real-time.com> On Saturday 23 February 2002 14:40, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:32 pm, Michael Kellen wrote: > > strongly recommend the sitescooper and plucker apps to keep your > > handheld's memory full of articles to read during meetings. > > > Anybody know if there's equivalents that work with jpilot? I just use Memo Pad myself... If you copy and paste a very long text file (like, say, a 400-page novel) into Memo Pad in Palm Desktop or jpilot, it will be divided into numbered memos. As I read each memo on my Visor, I add an asterisk to the beginning of its title to mark my place. Clumsy, but effective. --Ben From tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net Sat Feb 23 21:32:03 2002 From: tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net (B T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> <02022320045701.10703@edith> Message-ID: <3C785BEF.505D5ED3@mn.mediaone.net> Kelly, would you knock it off with the highest priority crap already. From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Feb 23 23:58:02 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [ot] Re: walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> <02022320045701.10703@edith> <3C785BEF.505D5ED3@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C787D32.40208@ringworld.org> B T wrote: > Kelly, would you knock it off with the highest priority crap already. Perhaps you should tell your email client to ignore it instead, or find an RFC that says its something not to be put in email and we can all start bouncing those mails then. In other words, who cares? Only those with email readers that do really dumb things like trusting external users to set 'priority'. -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Sun Feb 24 00:01:50 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Request to mailing list tclug-list rejected References: <20020223201931.U31720@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3C787DA8.5020604@ringworld.org> Bob Tanner wrote: > Try a web browser other then IE. There is a bug in IE that does not handle > self-signed CERTS right. Actually, your certificate has an incorrect common name in it of mailman.real-time.com, perhaps the link should be that, or perhaps the certificate should be different? -- Scott Dier From cbidler at innominatus.com Sun Feb 24 01:04:01 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (Chris Johnson Bidler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? References: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> <1014492737.1335.0.camel@mitethe> <200202231439.54891@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <3C788BDE.3080501@innominatus.com> Joel Rosenberg wrote: >On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:32 pm, Michael Kellen wrote: > >>I use a Visor with Serial Sync. Works fine with evolution. I also >>strongly recommend the sitescooper and plucker apps to keep your >>handheld's memory full of articles to read during meetings. >> >>Michael Kellen >> > >Anybody know if there's equivalents that work with jpilot? > There's actually an Avantgo plugin for jpilot: http://www.tomw.org/malsync/ Contains a link (under 'external links') for the jpilot plugin. You set up 'malsync' to talk to your Avantgo account, and the jpilot plugin functions as a conduit. I love it. ^_^ From tanner at real-time.com Sun Feb 24 03:49:03 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Request to mailing list tclug-list rejected In-Reply-To: <3C787DA8.5020604@ringworld.org>; from dieman@ringworld.org on Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:44:08PM -0600 References: <20020223201931.U31720@real-time.com> <3C787DA8.5020604@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020224033404.U11927@real-time.com> Quoting Scott M. Dier (dieman@ringworld.org): > Bob Tanner wrote: > > Try a web browser other then IE. There is a bug in IE that does not handle > > self-signed CERTS right. > > Actually, your certificate has an incorrect common name in it of > mailman.real-time.com, perhaps the link should be that, or perhaps the > certificate should be different? > IE is the only browser that has problems viewing it. All other browser I have tested prompt you to say it's ok to accept the cert. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 24 05:38:02 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I remember seeing the CEO on tv a some years back and the story was on the racks of clothes and other things that had a Made in the USA plaquard on the rack of merchandise. Well the merchandise wasn't made in the USA is what the story was about. Also going into their stores just seem tacky and dirty and cluttered. Also due to their volume I think they get COTS electronic items made to their spec and might have different (cheaper) components in them that what you think is the same model down the street (my opinion). > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Brian > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:59 PM > Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the heck > do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates > them worse than Microsoft"? Sure, I'll take Target over Walmart if given > the option, but I'm not to the point of badmouthing Wlamart for any > reason. Just makes me curious... :-) > > -Brian > From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 24 09:38:54 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200202240244.g1O2iR002428@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> <200202231439.54891@ellegon.com> <200202240244.g1O2iR002428@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202240932.23180@ellegon.com> On Saturday 23 February 2002 08:46 pm, Ben Stallings wrote: > On Saturday 23 February 2002 14:40, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:32 pm, Michael Kellen wrote: > > > strongly recommend the sitescooper and plucker apps to keep your > > > handheld's memory full of articles to read during meetings. > > > > Anybody know if there's equivalents that work with jpilot? > > I just use Memo Pad myself... If you copy and paste a very long text file > (like, say, a 400-page novel) into Memo Pad in Palm Desktop or jpilot, it > will be divided into numbered memos. As I read each memo on my Visor, I > add an asterisk to the beginning of its title to mark my place. Clumsy, > but effective. --Ben Yup -- "clumsy, but effective" seems to be a good general description of the best I can get with the Linux/Visor combination. Which is good enough. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From jim at herrick.net Sun Feb 24 10:10:02 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) References: Message-ID: <000901c1bd4d$45d409a0$0201010a@host209> The biggest gripe in many parts of MN has been the way they bring in a new store and the smaller local stores are unable to compete, usually going out of business. Tough luck, I say. Every one has value to add. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Houle" To: Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:19 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) > I remember seeing the CEO on tv a some years back and the story was on the > racks of clothes and other things that had a Made in the USA plaquard on the > rack of merchandise. Well the merchandise wasn't made in the USA is what > the story was about. > Also going into their stores just seem tacky and dirty and cluttered. Also > due to their volume I think they get COTS electronic items made to their > spec and might have different (cheaper) components in them that what you > think is the same model down the street (my opinion). > > > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Brian > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:59 PM > > > Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the heck > > do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates > > them worse than Microsoft"? Sure, I'll take Target over Walmart if given > > the option, but I'm not to the point of badmouthing Wlamart for any > > reason. Just makes me curious... :-) > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jim at herrick.net Sun Feb 24 10:10:57 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Request to mailing list tclug-list rejected References: <20020223201931.U31720@real-time.com> <3C787DA8.5020604@ringworld.org> <20020224033404.U11927@real-time.com> Message-ID: <000a01c1bd4d$4c743460$0201010a@host209> Bug OR security related-feature? Hmmm... > > Actually, your certificate has an incorrect common name in it of > > mailman.real-time.com, perhaps the link should be that, or perhaps the > > certificate should be different? > > > > IE is the only browser that has problems viewing it. All other browser I have > tested prompt you to say it's ok to accept the cert. From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 24 11:54:51 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? In-Reply-To: <3C788BDE.3080501@innominatus.com> References: <200202231807.g1NI7a029843@sprite.real-time.com> <200202231439.54891@ellegon.com> <3C788BDE.3080501@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <200202241142.43344@ellegon.com> On Sunday 24 February 2002 12:44 am, Chris Johnson Bidler wrote: > Joel Rosenberg wrote: > >On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:32 pm, Michael Kellen wrote: > >>I use a Visor with Serial Sync. Works fine with evolution. I also > >>strongly recommend the sitescooper and plucker apps to keep your > >>handheld's memory full of articles to read during meetings. > >> > >>Michael Kellen > > > >Anybody know if there's equivalents that work with jpilot? > > There's actually an Avantgo plugin for jpilot: > > http://www.tomw.org/malsync/ > > Contains a link (under 'external links') for the jpilot plugin. > You set up 'malsync' to talk to your Avantgo account, and > the jpilot plugin functions as a conduit. > > I love it. ^_^ > > Understandable; I got both malsync and the jpilot conduit working with only a little trouble -- necessary to RTFM, unsurprisingly -- and it is neat. One problem, though: apparently randomly, if I replace my Visor in its USB cradle, I lose my USB mouse, both for console and X purposes. I can't seem to find any simple way to restart it -- is there one? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From kethry at winternet.com Sun Feb 24 11:58:07 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Go down to Bentonville, AR, and look at their stores down there. The stores close to Corporate Offices are immensely cleaner, and everyone is treated with respect...(they also have more variety - did you know WalMart has a grocery store chain?) Sam Walton's philosophy was customer first and foremost. If you compare Target up here, well, taking the two into consideration, Target stores close to Corporate are dirtier than WalMart stores close to Corporate. I've gotten lots o' rudeness out of Target employees. They're retail stores - they have lots of people who work for them for close to minimum wage - frankly I have my qualms with both of them, but I still find myself going to WalMart over Target these days. The store closest to me has more variety than the closest Target, etc etc etc... I know that WalMart takes complaints about stores very seriously - I know that they base their purchasing on local demographics - ie., if a local population ismore prone to buy cheap stuff rather than well-made stuff, you'll find a higher porportion of cheap stuff in that store. I know if I go up to the WalMart in Eagan, I have a higher chance of finding the dance stuff I want for my daughter than going to the one in Apple Valley. *shrug* Giving more choice to the consumer is always a good thing in my opinion, whether it's linux or clothing. So - thi sis a good thing IMO. On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Terry Houle wrote: > I remember seeing the CEO on tv a some years back and the story was on the > racks of clothes and other things that had a Made in the USA plaquard on the > rack of merchandise. Well the merchandise wasn't made in the USA is what > the story was about. > Also going into their stores just seem tacky and dirty and cluttered. Also > due to their volume I think they get COTS electronic items made to their > spec and might have different (cheaper) components in them that what you > think is the same model down the street (my opinion). > > > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Brian > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:59 PM > > > Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the heck > > do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates > > them worse than Microsoft"? Sure, I'll take Target over Walmart if given > > the option, but I'm not to the point of badmouthing Wlamart for any > > reason. Just makes me curious... :-) > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 24 12:43:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) In-Reply-To: <000901c1bd4d$45d409a0$0201010a@host209> References: <000901c1bd4d$45d409a0$0201010a@host209> Message-ID: <200202241231.05688@ellegon.com> On Sunday 24 February 2002 09:25 am, Jim Herrick wrote: > The biggest gripe in many parts of MN has been the way they bring in a new > store and the smaller local stores are unable to compete, usually going out > of business. > > Tough luck, I say. Every one has value to add. > I think it's sort of inevitable -- and I don't decline to shop at chain stores -- but I do think it's sad whenever a local store goes out of business because a chain is able to undercut them in price . . . even when it's not (as sometimes happens) the chain deliberately selling things at a loss to drive the competition out of business. Note, for example, how Northwest chose to match Sun Country's fares -- and throw in NWA frequent flier miles and the assurance that if somebody missed a NWA flight, there'd be another along shortly -- but only for those routes that Sun Country was flying, and only for those days that Sun Country was flying those routes... ... until Sun Country stopped flying. I'm sure that if NWA had thought that it was necessary to drive Sun Country out of business -- and if they thought that they could get away with it -- they'd have undercut the prices. Now, imagine if somebody were to come up with an operating system that competed more directly with Windows than Linux does, at the moment, and didn't have the Open Source/hobbyist engine driving development . . . . From tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net Sun Feb 24 14:40:03 2002 From: tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net (B T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [ot] Re: walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <20020222235306.L28355@real-time.com> <02022320045701.10703@edith> <3C785BEF.505D5ED3@mn.mediaone.net> <3C787D32.40208@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3C794B3B.F36029D7@mn.mediaone.net> All it does on my email is put a red flag on it, I still get my emails in chrono order, but it tends to draw my eye and it turns out to be something useless. BTW sorry about not OTing the message. From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Sun Feb 24 14:41:17 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Request to mailing list tclug-list rejected In-Reply-To: <000a01c1bd4d$4c743460$0201010a@host209> References: <20020223201931.U31720@real-time.com> <3C787DA8.5020604@ringworld.org> <20020224033404.U11927@real-time.com> <000a01c1bd4d$4c743460$0201010a@host209> Message-ID: <20020224202731.GA19581@8ball.wox.org> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 09:27:02AM -0600, Jim Herrick wrote: > > > Actually, your certificate has an incorrect common name in it of > > > mailman.real-time.com, perhaps the link should be that, or perhaps the > > > certificate should be different? > > > > > > > IE is the only browser that has problems viewing it. All other browser I > have > > tested prompt you to say it's ok to accept the cert. > > Bug OR security related-feature? > > Hmmm... Well, every other browser I've used pops up a dialog window saying that there is no trust currently invested in the signer of the certificate, and are you sure you want to continue. Theoretically, any normal user would be able to read this and decide which sort of personal information they are willing to give to a site with a questionable certificate. Of course, from what I understand, Windows XP is similarly restrictive on who it accepts to sign drivers. -- Brian Hicks This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm not that clever. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020224/4d7894c9/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sun Feb 24 16:37:02 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [OT] was:[TCLUG] walmart.com... now:Lookout Mail Reader. In-Reply-To: <3C785BEF.505D5ED3@mn.mediaone.net> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC170@postman.transition.com> <02022320045701.10703@edith> <3C785BEF.505D5ED3@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <02022416200500.11143@edith> begin OK, I set it to Normal. I hope this helps. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 23 February 2002 21:20, B T wrote: > Kelly, would you knock it off with the highest priority crap already. From Ben at Workscited.Net Sun Feb 24 16:38:52 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202242233.g1OMXP016064@sprite.real-time.com> On Saturday 23 February 2002 19:59, Brian wrote: > Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the heck > do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates > them worse than Microsoft"? Well, imagine if you will all of Microsoft's anti-competitive tactics applied against the business districts of small towns all across America. Here's the game they played in northeast Oklahoma while I was in high school there. All dates are approximate, and I don't claim 100% accuracy on the details. 1979: Put in a Wal-Mart in Bartlesville and one 20 minutes' drive away in Nowata. 1980-1990: Suck the business out of both downtown districts by offering artificially low prices. 1990-1992: Now that downtown Bartlesville is dead and the nearby Kmart is on the verge of closing, raise prices in Bartlesville. Continue to nurture Nowata's dependence. 1992: Threaten to move out of Bartlesville unless the city council subsidizes a Wal*Mart supercenter on the one remaining piece of virgin land a quarter mile away from the existing store (so you don't have to close the existing store during construction... besides, the old parking lot -- the largest in town -- isn't big enough for a supercenter). If citizens organize against the new store, pooh pooh their concerns about traffic, noise, light pollution, parking lot runoff, etc. If they persist, buy the newspaper's silence by becoming its biggest advertiser. 1993: Open the supercenter. Bribe (with "donations") the local high school to get the band members out of class so they can play at the grand opening -- makes good publicity! 1993-1994: Hire half as many people as you told the city you would, and work them twice as hard. Treat them like criminals. If they ask for time off to pick their sick kids up from day care, fire them. If they ask to rearrange their work schedules to take community-college classes, fire them. If the security cameras in the break room catch them complaining, fire them. late 1994: Close the store in Nowata, since obviously those people can drive to Bartlesville to shop at the new supercenter! Still not convinced? See if you can find the Doonesbury comics on the subject from late summer & early fall 1994 -- if Gary Trudeau wasn't writing specifically about Bartlesville's battle, it was a suspiciously similar one. --Ben From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Feb 24 18:02:01 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) In-Reply-To: ; from kethry@winternet.com on Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 11:49:25AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020224175055.M5596@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 11:49:25AM -0600, Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > Go down to Bentonville, AR, and look at their stores down there. The > stores close to Corporate Offices are immensely cleaner, and everyone is > treated with respect...(they also have more variety - did you know WalMart > has a grocery store chain?) Sam Walton's philosophy was customer first and > foremost. If you compare Target up here, well, taking the two into > consideration, Target stores close to Corporate are dirtier than WalMart > stores close to Corporate. I've gotten lots o' rudeness out of Target > employees. > I'd say the cleanliness and quality of a store have to do with the people working at them, Minnesota isn't a very popular spot for Wal-Mart due to the fact that the state has one of the highest merchandise theft rates, where I lived in Texas we had *two* 'super wal-mart' stores within 10 miles of my home (considering I lived in the middle of nowhere, this is amazing) Both stores had a *fully* grocery store plus your standard Wal-Mart, it was always very clean, and they even had a gas station outside (Murphy's oil, who is, I think, owned by Wal-Mart) with the cheapest gas in town, and a $.03/gal discount if you use one of the little wal-mart gift cards (which are free anyway). As for target and k-mart in Texas, the ones I've seen are all decaying or dirty, much like the Wal-Mart's I see up here are. Ever wondered why this state is just now getting 'super' wal-mart's? > They're retail stores - they have lots of people who work for them for > close to minimum wage - frankly I have my qualms with both of them, but I > still find myself going to WalMart over Target these days. The store > closest to me has more variety than the closest Target, etc etc etc... Ditto. > > I know that WalMart takes complaints about stores very seriously - I know > that they base their purchasing on local demographics - ie., if a local > population ismore prone to buy cheap stuff rather than well-made stuff, > you'll find a higher porportion of cheap stuff in that store. I know if I > go up to the WalMart in Eagan, I have a higher chance of finding the dance > stuff I want for my daughter than going to the one in Apple Valley. > > *shrug* Giving more choice to the consumer is always a good thing in my > opinion, whether it's linux or clothing. So - thi sis a good thing IMO. Absolutely, besides, without a monopoly (which they don't have) they have to be doing something right to be #1. > -- > Imagination is intelligence having fun... > e-mail: kethry@winternet.com > URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From jared-linux at mn.rr.com Sun Feb 24 18:05:25 2002 From: jared-linux at mn.rr.com (Jared Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" Message-ID: <053d32959231822FE7@mail7.mn.rr.com> The trouble with the huge chain stores is that they take all the profit out of the areas they take over. 10,000 local stores each with 100 employees means 1,000,000 workers earning a living and 10,000 local owners making a profit. 1 chain store with 1,000,000 employees means 1,000,000 workers earning a living and 1 owner making all the profit. - Jared On Sunday 24 February 2002 09:25 am, you wrote: > The biggest gripe in many parts of MN has been the way they bring in a new > store and the smaller local stores are unable to compete, usually going out > of business. > > Tough luck, I say. Every one has value to add. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Houle" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:19 AM > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) > > > I remember seeing the CEO on tv a some years back and the story was on > > the racks of clothes and other things that had a Made in the USA plaquard > > on > > the > > > rack of merchandise. Well the merchandise wasn't made in the USA is what > > the story was about. > > Also going into their stores just seem tacky and dirty and cluttered. > > Also > > > due to their volume I think they get COTS electronic items made to their > > spec and might have different (cheaper) components in them that what you > > think is the same model down the street (my opinion). > > > > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Brian > > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:59 PM > > > > > > Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the > > heck > > > > do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates > > > them worse than Microsoft"? Sure, I'll take Target over Walmart if > > given > > > > the option, but I'm not to the point of badmouthing Wlamart for any > > > reason. Just makes me curious... :-) > > > > > > -Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list ------------------------------------------------------- From houle at citilink.com Sun Feb 24 19:14:53 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <053d32959231822FE7@mail7.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: Maybe we should get back to Linux? > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jared Burns > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 6:03 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" > > > The trouble with the huge chain stores is that they take all the > profit out > of the areas they take over. > > > > > From sraun at fireopal.org Sun Feb 24 20:50:24 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:29:14AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:39:43PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > > Erm, can you explain why Reply-To is so evil? > > Go ask google to tell you about "reply-to considered harmful". Go ask google to tell you "reply-to considered useful". I'm on lists where Reply-To doesn't get set to the list. I consider them among the most obnoxious of the lists I have to participate in. And I have to. My experience: if Reply-To is not set to the list, then one of these things happens - 1) replies don't happen because they're too much trouble to get to the list 2) Reply-All happens, and half the time the poor originator gets two copies of the reply. 3) otherwise interesting and on-topic discussions move to private e-mail, and the list never sees them 2 is really obnoxious to the original poster. 1 & 3 negatively impact community building. I've been involved in / had to deal with all of these. I consider the gains of not munging Reply-To to be nowhere near the losses. I only know of a handful of lists that don't do Reply-To munging. One is a Solaris help list - it has a strong culture of 'post your problem, collect the answers from everyone, post back a summary including what fixed it to the list'. It works there. It is one of the few scenarios where I can see it being useful - you need that really strong list culture. The other lists are alll ones where I disagree with the owner, but can't do anything, so I live with it. I don't know of any other lists where Reply-To munging isn't done. I do know of at least one group list - inhabited by strongly computer-literate techies - where they debate the topic every two or three years. And they always decide in favor. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Sun Feb 24 20:52:14 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <200202242233.g1OMXP016064@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202242233.g1OMXP016064@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202260221.g1Q2Kwr01514@destro> you honestly feel like they masterminded some plan in 1979 that would'nt be fully implemented until 1994? From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Feb 24 21:19:03 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> On Sunday 24 February 2002 06:56 pm, Terry Houle wrote: > Maybe we should get back to Linux? > With all due respect, the question of the methods and strategy used by large corporations in smushing smaller ones may well have an influence on the adoption of Linux, beyond the (to put it too broadly) the hobbyist community. Just to take an example: I understand that the new format for Microsoft Word is or is going to be XML. If their extensions/descriptions (and XML was made to be extended, of course; hence the name) are fully and publicly documented, that will be of a huge advantage to the adoption of things like OpenOffice.org or other open source word processors-- if they're hidden (my guess), it'll just be another example of Microsoft trying to "decommoditize" protocols, as documented in the Halloween letter. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From dante at plethora.net Sun Feb 24 22:11:02 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <200202260221.g1Q2Kwr01514@destro> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Joel Wickard wrote: > you honestly feel like they masterminded some plan in 1979 that would'nt be > fully implemented until 1994? Why not? For companies still under the reign of the founder long range planning is not unusual. However, I would rather suspect it as the natural course of events that would result from the initial conditions. The evil is not a malignant, planned sort of evil, but rather inherent in the nature of the business. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From josh at greentechnologist.org Sun Feb 24 22:12:47 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hmm ok, but if Microsoft starts writing XML instead of it's proprietary binary format then that will be *oodles* of fun when you throw XSL at it. The whole point of XML is so you can do stuff like XSL (from my perspective which involves getting multiple disparit systems talking to each other). *That* would be a killer feature for an office-ish program. Beyond that, I'm still happy with Word 1.0 for DOS (and I still have the install floppies). Heck, it even did nice formatting. I now use Emacs for most of my work and Word to mark the code up for documentation (mostly because there isn't a Word-ish HTML editor). Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > On Sunday 24 February 2002 06:56 pm, Terry Houle wrote: > > Maybe we should get back to Linux? > > > > With all due respect, the question of the methods and strategy used by large > corporations in smushing smaller ones may well have an influence on the > adoption of Linux, beyond the (to put it too broadly) the hobbyist community. > > Just to take an example: I understand that the new format for Microsoft Word > is or is going to be XML. If their extensions/descriptions (and XML was made > to be extended, of course; hence the name) are fully and publicly documented, > that will be of a huge advantage to the adoption of things like > OpenOffice.org or other open source word processors-- if they're hidden (my > guess), it'll just be another example of Microsoft trying to "decommoditize" > protocols, as documented in the Halloween letter. > > -- > ------------------------------------- > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. > ------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8ebpqfexLsowstzcRAu3AAJ4mkhbihTU5RRoNe1uc2WTBnHWrCwCcDFR+ +nDU1DxkLHE0MzgrkQy0KRE= =QvlF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Sun Feb 24 22:28:17 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" References: <053d32959231822FE7@mail7.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <001801c1bdb3$d9271f60$1e02a8c0@zippy> This is *not* a new problem. The luddites had much the same problems with mill owners setting up textile mills. Before that time, individual weavers worked at home turning out hand crafted cloth. Some of us like the advantages of economy of scale (cheaper - higher quality cloth!). History has come down on the side of the mill owners. In a very real sense this has been the enduring theme of the industrial revolution. Deal with it. Mark Browne The trouble with the huge chain stores is that they take all the profit out of the areas they take over. 10,000 local stores each with 100 employees means 1,000,000 workers earning a living and 10,000 local owners making a profit. 1 chain store with 1,000,000 employees means 1,000,000 workers earning a living and 1 owner making all the profit. > > > > > > Not to start a flame war, but that's 3 anti-Walmart posts. What the > > heck > > > > do you people have against Walmart? Especially so bad that Jim "hates > > > them worse than Microsoft"? Sure, I'll take Target over Walmart if > > given > > > > the option, but I'm not to the point of badmouthing Wlamart for any > > > reason. Just makes me curious... :-) > > > From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sun Feb 24 22:30:02 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014611491.12487.10.camel@yafa> What do you mean by 'Word-ish HTML editor'? Are you talking about an editor that is console only or perhaps editors that run under X? (Quanta or Bluefish) -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020224/d0af6473/attachment.pgp From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sun Feb 24 22:34:03 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> References: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <1014611696.11769.18.camel@yafa> Mr. Houle does raise a valid thought. This discussion ought not to be solely about Wal-Mart, I believe the original question, as raised by Mr. Tanner, was whether the TCLUG should or should not get involved in installing Linux on the Wal-Mart premises. Alternatively we could set up shop at an adjacent location I guess and have a 'buy a PC get an OS free' day. Without Wal-Mart's input and or permission. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020224/41d09c58/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sun Feb 24 22:36:14 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sunday 24 February 2002 10:15 pm, you wrote: > *That* would be a killer feature for an office-ish program. Beyond that, > I'm still happy with Word 1.0 for DOS (and I still have the install > floppies). Heck, it even did nice formatting. I now use Emacs for most > of my work and Word to mark the code up for documentation (mostly > because there isn't a Word-ish HTML editor). i though we settled this earlier, you freak!!! Emacs has no place on our list, so get that crap out of here! -munir From jack at jacku.com Sun Feb 24 22:46:02 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02022422323801.00744@geezer> On Sunday 24 February 2002 22:15, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hmm ok, but if Microsoft starts writing XML instead of it's proprietary > binary format then that will be *oodles* of fun when you throw XSL at it. > The whole point of XML is so you can do stuff like XSL (from my > perspective which involves getting multiple disparit systems talking to > each other). > That assumes that the XML definition they create is not just a wrapper to the proprietary binary format. This was one of the suggestions I heard a couple of years ago when it was first annouced that the office formats, with the exception of databases (mdb) would move toward XML. No one expected Microsoft to make it easy for people to read write Word or Excel documents without the given program. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Sun Feb 24 22:47:49 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <1014611696.11769.18.camel@yafa> References: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> <1014611696.11769.18.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <200202250444.g1P4i3b08716@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Sunday 24 February 2002 10:34 pm, Samir M. Nassar wrote: . > Alternatively we could set up shop at an adjacent location I guess and > have a 'buy a PC get an OS free' day. Without Wal-Mart's input and or > permission. This idea I like. A helping hand to get started is what newbies need. From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Sun Feb 24 22:49:38 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <001801c1bdb3$d9271f60$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <053d32959231822FE7@mail7.mn.rr.com> <001801c1bdb3$d9271f60$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <1014612889.12487.52.camel@yafa> Apples and Oranges Mr. Browne. While industrialization of production is indeed beneficial and needed, industrialization of services is not. There is a good reason the US enacted anti-monopolization laws. Lawmakers at the time, and until recently, percieved a monopoly to be a threat to the welfare of the general public because it can leverage power in a more concentrated and organized way than the public. If Wal-Mart were Wal-Manufacture and were closing out smaller companies I would not be as worried since they are only producing materiel, And as you said, ultimately this was beneficial to society. However, having only one company be the sole provider of goods and services can be disastrous to a community, especially if they can use their reserves to starve out 'mom-and-pops'. Then we are left with only one choice and no recourse. This of course is where Wal-Mart starts to look very much like Microsoft. Isn't the reason many people move to Linux is to not be beholden to only one vendor that acts as the end-all be-all of programming? Otherwise we should just all wipe our hard-disks and install Windows eXtremely Prissy. Having options is always a good thing. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020224/b9d50657/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Sun Feb 24 23:54:03 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <1014611696.11769.18.camel@yafa>; from nassarsa@redconcepts.net on Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:34:55PM -0600 References: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> <1014611696.11769.18.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <20020224234321.I24279@real-time.com> Quoting Samir M. Nassar (nassarsa@redconcepts.net): > Mr. Houle does raise a valid thought. > > This discussion ought not to be solely about Wal-Mart, I believe the > original question, as raised by Mr. Tanner, was whether the TCLUG should > or should not get involved in installing Linux on the Wal-Mart premises. Sheesh, talk about OT thread. Mr. Tanner? My Dad is on this list. Hi Dad! My point was approaching walmart about helping people who buy this os-less PC get linux installed. Thus helping the linux community. Hate/Like walmart doesn't come into the equation. Heck, if MS would start to sell a Linux distro that didn't have some hidden license on it I'd welcome it into the "family" and help people install it too./ -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 25 00:09:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 Message-ID: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux versions. Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain free. via /. This is so so stupid. They only reason I have even gotten some of Real Time's customers to look at Star Office is because it was free. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From jethro at freakzilla.com Mon Feb 25 00:27:02 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (jethro@freakzilla.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1014618115.3c79d80356ea1@dragon> Hey, Quoting Bob Tanner : > Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux > versions. > Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain > free. You know what's REALLY stupid about this? SOLARIS IS FREE! What on Earth is the point of making StarOffice free for Solaris but nothing else? Anyone can download the Solaris/x86 8 ISOs off Sun's website and run it on a spare PC - even if you bought a new low-end PC it'd cost less than licensing Office for a small business. -Yaron -- From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 00:48:06 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20020225064418.GA19481@wookimus.net> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:13:07PM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > My experience: if Reply-To is not set to the list, then one of these > things happens - > > 1) replies don't happen because they're too much trouble to get to > the list What does this have to do with Reply-To munging? Sounds like the person wants to get direct replies as well as replies to the list. Perhaps a request to be Cc:'d on subsequent posts would make sense, yet, that would be a user-request wouldn't it? Something useful for the Reply-To: field. > 2) Reply-All happens, and half the time the poor originator gets > two copies of the reply. Sounds like people need to learn how to use their email clients. Ignorance of one's software does not qualify as an excuse to be obnoxious about one's email. > 3) otherwise interesting and on-topic discussions move to private > e-mail, and the list never sees them That is a lesson in discipline, not a correction via "Reply-To" munging. If people aren't knowledgable about their email clients and how to use them properly, then it's high time they learn. > 2 is really obnoxious to the original poster. 1 & 3 negatively impact > community building. I think you're making up excuses for something that is harmful and inappropriate. If I make a post that is on-topic, but wish to receive emails to process via a procmail filter, let's say for voting, I can use the "Reply-To" field in my email that is originally sent to a list. If that list munges my "Reply-To", then confusion ensues. Reply-To's can be useful, such as when you're using the MAIL-TO forms from Network Solutions to update your DNS records, or when mailer daemons send you subscription confirmations. One should be able to rely upon the Reply-To header doing useful work. Redirecting all of my email to a list by default is not acceptable behavior. > I've been involved in / had to deal with all of these. I consider the > gains of not munging Reply-To to be nowhere near the losses. That's your opinion. > I only know of a handful of lists that don't do Reply-To munging. One > is a Solaris help list - it has a strong culture of 'post your > problem, collect the answers from everyone, post back a summary > including what fixed it to the list'. It works there. It is one of > the few scenarios where I can see it being useful - you need that > really strong list culture. Then that's what should happen. A strong list culture, where netiquette and responsible moderators help guide the discussion. > The other lists are alll ones where I disagree with the owner, but > can't do anything, so I live with it. I don't know of any other lists > where Reply-To munging isn't done. Try all of the lists that Debian hosts, for starters. Any email lists that I host, for second. northshield@minstrel.com for another (SCA Principality list). The list goes on. Reply-To munging is rampant, but by no means is it a majority. > I do know of at least one group list - inhabited by strongly > computer-literate techies - where they debate the topic every two or > three years. And they always decide in favor. I would say it's more like our situation. No one makes any decisions. The debate flares up, but nothing is done. The environment that rules is the one that is initially set up. After that, very little changes unless something large in scale happens to influence it. I.e. spamming of the list. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/1affdf72/attachment.pgp From joel at joelschneider.net Mon Feb 25 01:20:02 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (joel@joelschneider.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 11:59:11PM -0600 References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020225010414.E13509@joelschneider.net> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 11:59:11PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux > versions. Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris > will remain free. > > via /. > > This is so so stupid. They only reason I have even gotten some of > Real Time's customers to look at Star Office is because it was free. I think there must be an opportunistic attitude within Sun regarding its policies toward open-source and free software. In some cases, Sun appears to have supported open-source projects such as OpenOffice, NetBeans, and Jakarta-Tomcat. However, in other areas, Sun's stance toward open-source and free software is less than friendly (via theserverside.com): Apache on warpath over Java licence http://www.vnunet.com/News/1129351 Will You See Open Source J2EE Implementations? Not Likely. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2002/02/13/osjava.html The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) has some complaints about the Java Specification Participation Agreement (JCPA) associated with Sun's Java Community Process (JCP). I think some of the corporate players involved in the JCP are afraid that open-source J2EE servers such as JBoss and Enhydra Enterprise will gain popularity and cut into their market. Sun also recently launched a FUD attack against linux on the mainframe: http://www.sun.com/executives/realitycheck/reality-022002.html Meanwhile, Sun now views linux as a "tier 1" platform for Java, and has simultaneously released Windows, Linux, and Solaris varsions of the J2SE 1.4.0 SDK: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/download.html Joel From fertch at mninter.net Mon Feb 25 03:21:02 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: References: <200202260221.g1Q2Kwr01514@destro> Message-ID: <20020225025321.490e5757.fertch@mninter.net> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:48:59 -0600 (CST) Daniel Taylor wrote: > On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Joel Wickard wrote: > > > you honestly feel like they masterminded some plan in 1979 that > would'nt be > > fully implemented until 1994? > > Why not? > For companies still under the reign of the founder long range > planning is not unusual. > Sam Walton died about 10 years ago. He himself was a great businessman. His kids on the other hand... Sam's philosophy like someone said before was that he took care of his employees and the customers. His kids, last experience I had with them was that they were only after expanding and growing the Wal-Mart corporation. I used to work for Sam's Club back in '90/91. Not specificly by choice per se. Rather, I worked for the old "Wholesale Club" which was eventually bought out by Sam's/Wal-Mart. Ahh, the memories of looking at the $4000 pc's that were on the sales floor and wishing I could get one.... Shawn From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 25 03:40:04 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Alternative TLD registries Message-ID: <1014629734.1789.125.camel@yafa> On Slashdot.org: 'ICANN CEO Proposes Radical Changes' http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/25/035254 In response some people have posted links to: OpenNIC http://www.opennic.unrated.net/ and Open Root Server Confederation http://www.open-rsc.org/ -- One could argue that investing time in alternative TLD registries is not worth it since it could be a fad or a passing thing.I imagine that most Linux users here have heard the same argument describing involvement in Linux once or twice in their time. So where am I going with this? I would argue that as Linux and Open Source Software users we have a vested interest in seeing that these initiatives work and become part of the internet. Why? For one, why should should the naming of the internet belong to only one agency (ICANN)? Many of you are programmers, sys and net admins, and software designers. In many cases you are a bit of all of these. So all of you know the problems inherent in a Closed Source System. So why should the naming assignment of the internet be any different? What happens if one day redconcepts.net gets taken away? I realize that this is not exactly earth-shattering, but imagine if it were real-time.com or mn-linux.org? Right now I imagine the recources are meagre at best. OpenNIC for example will let you use .oss or .indy or .geek as your TLD. TLD's there are voted upon by the OpenNIC community. Not the fastest way of doing things but for a small community it does work. OSRC lets you use your own TLD's and automatically adds them to their registry. I don't know how they resolve clashes but that is something I'll look into further. I asked the OSRC people and they say that they network with OpenNIC. I won't advocate that the TCLUG and involved parties should get involved with this outright at this stage, but I would appreciate your comments/ideas/reservations. I invite you all to get involved, even if off-list if people think this is not the place. What is better than an Open TLD Registry System powered by our favorite Open Source Software and maybe even *BSD? Right now ICANN does what it likes, how it likes it. Maybe ten years down the road a variety of Alt. TLD Registries can cooperate on open and transparent guidelines. Some benefits: Since domain name registration could be community guided as opposed to solely commercial we could see a decrease of spam/UCE. Since it could be terminated at the root server or domains that spam could be shut down. We could see such TLD's as .LNX (linux) .OSS (Open Source Software) or .LUG (Linux User Group). We could send mail to mailman@tc.mn.usa.lug for example. We could see a better organised organization and structure. Independence from governmental and corporate influence. Free as in beer and as in speech. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/1e501b04/attachment.pgp From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Mon Feb 25 07:21:01 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 Message-ID: <6e195bc801172407d2@[172.29.97.10]> > else? Anyone can download the Solaris/x86 8 ISOs off Sun's > website and run it Not no mo'. They removed the iso's after dropping i386 support for future Solaris versions. You have to buy the media pack. The price has dropped to $45 though. IPC 2002 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Feb 25 08:35:59 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020225082536.70fdc4e4.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux versions. > Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain free. > > via /. > > This is so so stupid. They only reason I have even gotten some of Real Time's > customers to look at Star Office is because it was free. OpenOffice is LGPL'd, so does it matter? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Error: Such action is / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ punishable by death. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/1401cc11/attachment.pgp From kethry at winternet.com Mon Feb 25 08:36:54 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT & hilarious - Human Virus Scanner Message-ID: For some non-WalMart/MS fun.... The first one listed for me was linux (hence the post here) - won't post results here, my results are posted here and the survey is here for those with non-HTML email-clients, the servey is at http://totl.net/VirusScanner/? and my results are at http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=24396174 Take care, Liz -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From Ben at Workscited.Net Mon Feb 25 08:38:07 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <200202260221.g1Q2Kwr01514@destro> References: <200202242233.g1OMXP016064@sprite.real-time.com> <200202260221.g1Q2Kwr01514@destro> Message-ID: <200202251430.g1PEU4026345@sprite.real-time.com> On Monday 25 February 2002 20:20, you wrote: > you honestly feel like they masterminded some plan in 1979 that would'nt be > fully implemented until 1994? No, I don't think they cared about their customers enough to give us that kind of thought. Each step along the way was an individual act of inconsiderate selfishness that looks like a master plan only in retrospect. At risk of changing the subject, look at Apple... with every model they change the hardware. The loyal fans keep buying the new hardware thinking it'll be the new standard, and within two years it's incompatible with the new Apple hardware. Is this a master plan to screw the consumer? Or are the Apple designers just mistakenly using a brainstorming list as a checklist? "proprietary 15-pin monitor cable -- check. "proprietary 30-pin monitor-and-sound cable -- check. "big honking proprietary monitor-and-sound-and-keyboard-and-mouse cable -- check. "standard VGA monitor cable -- check. "proprietary digital monitor cable -- check. "built-in monitor and no cable -- check. "What shall we do this year? Let's think different..." Back to Wal*Mart... I don't honestly think they intended to suck the life out of downtowns, but that was a consequence of their business plan that they could have foreseen if they had cared enough to try. Regardless of their intentions, they're still guilty of creating the consequences. --Ben From ming at evil-overlords.com Mon Feb 25 09:17:26 2002 From: ming at evil-overlords.com (ming) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT & hilarious - Human Virus Scanner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1014649071.3c7a50ef50368@mail.evil-overlords.com> Hahahaha, that is pretty funny. Quoting Liz Burke-Scovill : > For some non-WalMart/MS fun.... > > The first one listed for me was linux (hence the post here) - won't post > results here, my results are posted href=http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=24396174>here and > the survey is here > > for those with non-HTML email-clients, the servey is at > http://totl.net/VirusScanner/? > > and my results are at > http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?itemid=24396174 > > Take care, > Liz > > -- > Imagination is intelligence having fun... > e-mail: kethry@winternet.com > URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bgilbertson at stonel.com Mon Feb 25 09:18:13 2002 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy References: <3C783979.1A857BEF@mn.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3C7A521F.5FEB0654@stonel.com> Been configuring the modem on my Mandrake box. Perhaps similar enough config. to help. 1. Check if ppp|kppp is already running. Try ps or ps|grep variant to determine. Try kill off running process if found. 2. Perhaps your modem was moved to a different ttyS device. Check /dev/modem link to see which ttySx it points to. Then use minicom to try connect to various ttyS's starting from 0 up. Change link to point to ttyS minicom finds modem on. HTH, Bob Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > The other day, I started up my box and my mouse plug must not have been > all the way in (kids!). Kudzu (RH 7.2) detected that I had no mouse and > asked me if I wanted to remove the driver. I said 'Do Nothing', made > sure that the plug was seated and recycled the computer. Ever since > then, I have not been able to use the modem. When I try to dial out, it > states that the resource is busy. Short of removing and reinstalling > the modem, is there any way to clear this resource conflict? > > -- > Perry Hoekstra From joel at joelschneider.net Mon Feb 25 10:06:01 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org>; from sraun@fireopal.org on Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:13:07PM -0600 References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20020225095136.A14447@joelschneider.net> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:13:07PM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > I've been involved in / had to deal with all of these. I consider the > gains of not munging Reply-To to be nowhere near the losses. I'm inclined to agree. Because the vast majority of responses to email list traffic are directed back to the list, adding the list address to the "Reply-to" header seems like a sensible default. The rules that apply to email lists should be different than those that apply to private email. Joel From shanson at cruiskeen.com Mon Feb 25 10:13:46 2002 From: shanson at cruiskeen.com (Steve Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> <1014618115.3c79d80356ea1@dragon> Message-ID: <3C7A60AB.1010504@cruiskeen.com> Okay, well, I understand that this will be VERY hard to comprehend, but --- Sun made some mention about 6 weeks or so back that they were considering charging for Star Office because they were hearing a LOT of feedback from corporate america that they wouldn't consider using it unless they could pay for it. The perception being that if it was free then Sun wasn't standing behind it. Gotta say that I've seen this attitude at several of the companies I've worked at as a consultant. Can't use freeware, there's nobody to sue. Like they'd ever actually sued a software vendor. Of course, I think OpenOffice will remain free, so you'll kind of have a choice of buying StarOffice and getting the add-on goodies or using OpenOffice. I don't think Sun can very well take back the freed code. I WILL be interested to see how much Sun decides to charge. jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > Hey, > > Quoting Bob Tanner : > > >>Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux >>versions. >>Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain >>free. >> > > > You know what's REALLY stupid about this? > > SOLARIS IS FREE! > > What on Earth is the point of making StarOffice free for Solaris but nothing > else? Anyone can download the Solaris/x86 8 ISOs off Sun's website and run it > on a spare PC - even if you bought a new low-end PC it'd cost less than > licensing Office for a small business. > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jim at herrick.net Mon Feb 25 10:54:01 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <3C7A60AB.1010504@cruiskeen.com> References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> <1014618115.3c79d80356ea1@dragon> <3C7A60AB.1010504@cruiskeen.com> Message-ID: <200202251637.g1PGblS16158@flanders.workgroup> Do what Red-Hat does. Charge for support and automatic updates! Good business plan. Lots of recurring revenue! > Okay, well, I understand that this will be VERY hard to comprehend, but --- > > Sun made some mention about 6 weeks or so back that they were > considering charging for Star Office because they were hearing a LOT of > feedback from corporate america that they wouldn't consider using it > unless they could pay for it. The perception being that if it was free > then Sun wasn't standing behind it. > > Gotta say that I've seen this attitude at several of the companies I've > worked at as a consultant. Can't use freeware, there's nobody to sue. > Like they'd ever actually sued a software vendor. > > Of course, I think OpenOffice will remain free, so you'll kind of have a > choice of buying StarOffice and getting the add-on goodies or using > OpenOffice. I don't think Sun can very well take back the freed code. > > I WILL be interested to see how much Sun decides to charge. > > jethro@freakzilla.com wrote: > > Hey, > > > > Quoting Bob Tanner : > >>Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux > >>versions. > >>Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain > >>free. > > > > You know what's REALLY stupid about this? > > > > SOLARIS IS FREE! > > > > What on Earth is the point of making StarOffice free for Solaris but > > nothing else? Anyone can download the Solaris/x86 8 ISOs off Sun's > > website and run it on a spare PC - even if you bought a new low-end PC > > it'd cost less than licensing Office for a small business. > > > > -Yaron > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Mon Feb 25 11:07:41 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux DNS and WINS Message-ID: <1014655867.24087.13.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> My system admin is thinking of setting up a Linux box to do DNS but he says he needs this capability: "To allow for interoperability between DNS and WINS, a new resource record was defined as part of the Windows NT DNS implementation. This record is called a WINS lookup record, and can only be a part of the zone root domain. Any queries that cannot be resolved by the static entries in the DNS zone file will be forwarded to the WINS server (or servers), defined by the WINS lookup record." Is this possible...er I mean practical with named on linux? Bonus OT question: Does anyone know where I can find information on setting up Oracle Discoverer (EUL) views on many-to-many tables? I assume it's possible but I can't find any way to do the querys. Thanks, Brady From tanner at real-time.com Mon Feb 25 11:20:12 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <20020225082536.70fdc4e4.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 08:25:36AM -0600 References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> <20020225082536.70fdc4e4.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020225104552.Q19772@real-time.com> Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > Bob Tanner wrote: > > > > Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux versions. > > Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain free. > > > > via /. > > > > This is so so stupid. They only reason I have even gotten some of Real Time's > > customers to look at Star Office is because it was free. > > OpenOffice is LGPL'd, so does it matter? > My experience has been OpenOffice is far less stable then StarOffice. But is daily build or stable release. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Feb 25 11:20:59 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <20020224234321.I24279@real-time.com> References: <200202242106.08845@ellegon.com> <1014611696.11769.18.camel@yafa> <20020224234321.I24279@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020225105251.A2522@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 11:43:21PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > My point was approaching walmart about helping people who buy this os-less PC > get linux installed. Thus helping the linux community. Its probably a moot point right now anyway. As far as I can tell, the OS-less computers are only a pilot program at walmart.com, and won't be sold at physical stores yet anyway. > Hate/Like walmart doesn't come into the equation. Heck, if MS would start to > sell a Linux distro that didn't have some hidden license on it I'd welcome it > into the "family" and help people install it too./ Hey, I never meant to say I was against helping people who buy these computers from Walmart, just against _encouraging_ people to buy computers from Walmart. Better to encourage people to buy from small shops like GNS or Tran, or if they want to buy from a chain store, at least buy from an electronics chain store where there's at least a chance of getting help. Anyway, sorry I kicked this thread into OT land - I knew I should have just let it go ;). I've got other reasons to hate Walmart, but I _will_ just let them go :). -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Mon Feb 25 11:27:02 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] quake3, voodoo3 XFree4 References: <20020221101215.K5596@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3C7A70A7.EF97E29E@attbroadband.com> Jon Schewe wrote: > > Thanks for the hint. Turns out I just had to point /usr/lib/libGL.so at > GL/libGL.so.1.2.xf86_glx and then set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /usr/lib, for some > reason it's not in ld.so.conf and it's not being found by quake. Now if I > could only get it full screen. It takes my whole screen, but only uses the > bottom left corner and it's only like 25fps. > Sounds like you need to use direct rendering. I have an ATI all-in-wonder 128 AGP card and the wonder is I was able to get it working. I tried many combinations and finally ended up with XFree86-4.2 and the 2.4.16 Kernel. Anyway using glxgears I got around 90 fps without DRI and somewhere around 400 fps with DRI. If this seems relevant and you'd like more information just let me know. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon Feb 25 11:30:03 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? Treo? In-Reply-To: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> Message-ID: <1014657899.31725.43.camel@money> has anyone any experience with the visor Treo? http://www.visor.com/products/treo/index.jhtml?sub_nav_section=Overview&prod_cat_name=Treo Looks pretty slick, screen looks a bit smaller than the other pda versions. runs pal os, wireless access built in. im thinking it could be a great tool for a consultant out in the field... anyone have any experience or thoughts? From joelr at ellegon.com Mon Feb 25 11:30:50 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <20020225104552.Q19772@real-time.com> References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> <20020225082536.70fdc4e4.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020225104552.Q19772@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200202251126.06891@ellegon.com> On Monday 25 February 2002 10:45 am, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Mike Hicks (hick0088@tc.umn.edu): > > Bob Tanner wrote: > > > Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux > > > versions. Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will > > > remain free. > > > > > > via /. > > > > > > This is so so stupid. They only reason I have even gotten some of Real > > > Time's customers to look at Star Office is because it was free. > > > > OpenOffice is LGPL'd, so does it matter? > > My experience has been OpenOffice is far less stable then StarOffice. But > is daily build or stable release. Each to his own; my own experience is that they've both been pretty stable, with the exception of the "convert a whole bunch of word documents at the same time" feature, which crashes both. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 11:36:04 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: (REMINDER) Trim your posts (was Re: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0) In-Reply-To: <200202251637.g1PGblS16158@flanders.workgroup> References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> <1014618115.3c79d80356ea1@dragon> <3C7A60AB.1010504@cruiskeen.com> <200202251637.g1PGblS16158@flanders.workgroup> Message-ID: <20020225170922.GA4257@wookimus.net> From: Jim Herrick Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:37:47 -0600 X-BodyNoiseScore: 93 (This score is weighted in favor of noise in a 2:1 ratio, plus a few extra tweeks) Do what Red-Hat does. Charge for support and automatic updates! Good business plan. Lots of recurring revenue! > Okay, well, I understand that this will be VERY hard to comprehend, > but --- ...snipped for brevity... Friendly reminder, people. Trim your posts. That's a healthy Noise score, fully attributed to all of the '>' prefixed lines. Please only include the text that you're actually replying to. We do have Message-ID and In-Reply-To headers in our email to relate emails to. If you need to see threaded discussions, save your emails for a day or so, or visit the website. We do not need full texts of the discussion quoted in pre/posttext to your replies. Jim is not the only one. I just haven't been a Nazi about it lately. I may soon start an automailer when the score surpases 30. Thank you. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/70274713/attachment.pgp From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Mon Feb 25 11:44:05 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3C7A74B9.5B760E2D@attbroadband.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Sun wishes to charge license fees for usage of the Windows and Linux versions. > Only the version for Sun's own operation system Solaris will remain free. > OpenOffice is available. To MS office users this will "look" more like office than Star 5.2 so in the end may still be a step forward > -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 25 11:47:24 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] quake3, voodoo3 XFree4 Message-ID: That does sound fast! I'd like more info, please spill... >>> xpoverby@attbroadband.com 02/25/02 11:13AM >>> Anyway using glxgears I got around 90 fps without DRI and somewhere around 400 fps with DRI. If this seems relevant and you'd like more information just let me know. From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Feb 25 12:05:25 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts (was Sun..Charge..SO6) Message-ID: >>> chewie@wookimus.net 02/25/02 11:09AM >>> >I just haven't been a Nazi about it lately. I don't mind reminders on this topic, as long as they are polite. >I may soon start an automailer when the score surpases 30. Oh, no. Then they would lose their "personal touch". ;-) >(This score is weighted in favor of noise in a >2:1 ratio, plus a few extra tweeks) Any details available? Procmail? Tweaks? Have a great day, Troy From myok at ogzr.org Mon Feb 25 12:19:01 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [OT] Microsoft's XML (was Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft") In-Reply-To: <02022422323801.00744@geezer> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020225114330.009ea6d0@ogzr.org> At 10:32 PM 2/24/02 -0600, Jack Ungerleider wrote: >On Sunday 24 February 2002 22:15, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hmm ok, but if Microsoft starts writing XML instead of it's proprietary > > binary format then that will be *oodles* of fun when you throw XSL at it. > > The whole point of XML is so you can do stuff like XSL (from my > > perspective which involves getting multiple disparit systems talking to > > each other). > > > >That assumes that the XML definition they create is not just a wrapper to the >proprietary binary format. This was one of the suggestions I heard a couple >of years ago when it was first annouced that the office formats, with the >exception of databases (mdb) would move toward XML. No one expected Microsoft >to make it easy for people to read write Word or Excel documents without the >given program. I can testify that it IS oodles of fun. I'm using Microsoft's Visio 2002 which allows documents to be saved in XML format instead of the proprietary, binary, un-indexable Visio format. At last, I can grep for server names in thousands of network diagrams at once, and set up any one of hundreds of text search engines to index the collection. The graphical entities are stored in a base64-type field (at least that's what it looks like), but all labels are clear text. Also, it's 100% valid XML according to all the XML and XSL tools I've thrown at it. Downside is that the XML files are huge compared to the proprietary Visio format. They bzip nicely though :) Can't speak for Office as I don't run the XML-enabled version. -- Carl Patten From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Feb 25 12:21:54 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: walmart.com to sell systems without the MS tax(OT) References: Message-ID: <3C7A7D63.8060200@ringworld.org> Liz Burke-Scovill wrote: > stores close to Corporate. I've gotten lots o' rudeness out of Target > employees. The treatment I've coaxed out of best buy employees doesn't match anything I've ever seen at target. -- Scott Dier From Ben at Workscited.Net Mon Feb 25 13:00:36 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? Treo? In-Reply-To: <1014657899.31725.43.camel@money> References: <200202230323.VAA08334@wisdom.geomtech.com> <1014657899.31725.43.camel@money> Message-ID: <200202251843.g1PIh6029900@sprite.real-time.com> On Monday 25 February 2002 11:24, Duncan wrote: > has anyone any experience with the visor Treo? > Looks pretty slick, screen looks a bit smaller than the other pda > versions. runs pal os, wireless access built in. im thinking it could > be a great tool for a consultant out in the field... > anyone have any experience or thoughts? No experience, but I'm unconvinced that it's better than the other Palm cell phones on the market. I was also amused by this feature, listed on the Details page: "QWERTY keyboard for fast and accurate data entry." Uh, yeah. Not only was the QWERTY keyboard originally designed to be *slow*, but I doubt I could be accurate pressing teeny buttons with my thumbs. I could be wrong. --Ben From steveg at transition.com Mon Feb 25 13:19:40 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC177@postman.transition.com> Check out the very first line. This is working for me using bind 9.x. Good luck. $TTL 3h ; SOA RECORD AREA ; @ IN SOA beavis.knuckledragger.com. jimmy.beavis.knuckledragger.com. ( 20020128 ; Serial Number of File 3h ; Refresh after 3 hours 1h ; Retry after 1 hour 1w ; Expire after 1 Week 1d ) ; Minimum TTL 1 day > > Okay, I'm reading DNS/Bind by O'Rielly. I'm going through > setting up all > > of my db.domain files per the book. I get to the point of > getting it up > > and running, yet it failed. Named starts and continues to > run, however > > when I do a tail of the syslog, I get a no "TTL specified" > for all of my > > db files. Yet, I do have it specified. Here's the > beginning of one of my > > files: > > > > 192.168.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA host.domain.org. e.mail.address. ( > > 1 ;Serial > > 10800 ;Refresh after 3 hours > > 3600 ;Retry after 1 hour > > 604800 ;Expire after 1 week > > 86400) ;Minimum TTL of 1 day From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 25 13:30:08 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (nassarmu@redconcepts.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] handheld recommendations? Treo? In-Reply-To: <200202251843.g1PIh6029900@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202251843.g1PIh6029900@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <52571.198.74.20.78.1014664565.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > I was also amused by this feature, listed on the Details page: > "QWERTY keyboard for fast and accurate data entry." Uh, yeah. > Not only was the QWERTY keyboard originally designed to be > *slow*, but I doubt I could be accurate pressing teeny buttons > with my thumbs. I could be wrong. --Ben where i work we use the Motorola T800 two way pagers, really cool and once you get used to it it becomes really easy, the Symbol-shift key gets pressed instead of the 'l' every once as it is right next to it and a while but it is not too bad. -munir From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 13:55:52 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux DNS and WINS In-Reply-To: <1014655867.24087.13.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> References: <1014655867.24087.13.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: <20020225172851.GC4257@wookimus.net> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:51:06AM -0600, Brady Hegberg wrote: > "To allow for interoperability between DNS and WINS, a new resource > record was defined as part of the Windows NT DNS implementation. This > record is called a WINS lookup record, and can only be a part of the > zone root domain. Any queries that cannot be resolved by the static > entries in the DNS zone file will be forwarded to the WINS server (or > servers), defined by the WINS lookup record." There really is no need for a WINS lookup record. I'm going to assume that it's similar to a mail MX record in that it tells the client where to go to register for WINS name resolution. You can specify the WINS server statically in your per client configuration, or dynamically through your DHCP server. For the standard dhcpd shipped w/most Linux distributions, it's as simple as setting the following config line for the subset (See also dhcp-options(5)): netbios-name-servers ip-address [, ip-address] ; netbios-dd-servers ip-address [, ip-address] ; netbios-node-type node-type ; netbios-scope scope-string ; Possible node types are: 1 B-node: Broadcast - no WINS 2 P-node: Peer - WINS only. 4 M-node: Mixed - broadcast, then WINS 8 H-node: Hybrid - WINS, then broadcast If you'd like to dynamically assign DNS lookups by the requested name of a DHCP client, you can use a dynamic DNS setup. On Debian, the package is called 'dhcp-dns'. Package: dhcp-dns Priority: optional Section: net Installed-Size: 43 Maintainer: Craig Sanders Architecture: i386 Version: 0.50-3 Depends: bind, perl | perl5, dhcp Filename: dists/potato/main/binary-i386/net/dhcp-dns_0.50-3.deb Size: 10088 MD5sum: 5ce6a3e74ad159660e887a5b4d7cf1ab Description: Dynamic DNS updates for DHCP dhcp-dns uses bind 8's dynamic update features to update a zonefile with hostnames from the dhcp leases file. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/29d06bad/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 13:56:49 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: Procmail scoring (was Re: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020225190723.GA11592@wookimus.net> Yes, the procmail scoring that I use is pretty simple. It's based on what I found in the procmailsc(5) manpage. # BodyNoise scoring recipie # - Add 2 per > (noise), subtract 1 per !'>' (signal) # - Add 10 per "Original Message" lines. :0fB * 2^1 ^>.*$ * -1^1 ^[^>].*$ * 10^1 [-]+*(Original Message).*$ | formail -I "X-BodyNoiseScore: $= (This score is weighted in favor of noise in a 2:1 ratio, plus a few extra tweeks)" I only check the body, and unfortunately, it's not signature or MIME aware. PGP signatures, therefore, add to the Signal score as opposed to the Noise score. What's I'd really like is to have some more sophisticated rules that take into consideration the aforementioned as well as any additional MIME attachments, total post size, etc. I may have to use metamail to chunk out the different portions of the message, since procmail only uses "header" v.s. "body" distinctions via the ":0 b" or ":0 h" lines (See also procmailex(5) and procmailrc(5)). I think SmartList, the procmail listserver, can break things out by MIME types. I'll have to take a look at it and see what I can use for my own recipies. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/bd772aac/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 25 14:14:35 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question In-Reply-To: <015201c1bca2$78af4200$0100a8c0@host209> References: <20020223132341.33d1e9ab.fertch@mninter.net> <015201c1bca2$78af4200$0100a8c0@host209> Message-ID: <20020225193442.EEFD560304@friday.localdomain.fake> That isnt actuly an error, everything should still be running, its just letting you know you didnt specify a TTL. The confusion is the TTL in the SOA isnt really a TTL anymore, its a "Negitive TTL" and means something slightly different. I dont remember exactly what, but I am sure some site will tell you. So you now have to put a $TTL ##### statement as your first line if you want to specify a TTL. (Highly recomened- its never a good idea to just let the computer decide things like that) Jay On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:44 pm, you wrote: > You need a "zone" default TTL at the top of the file. The first line > should read: > > $ttl 86400 > > or using some other value. This is required because each resource > record in the zone must have a TTL and uses the default TTL, unless you > specify one for said record. > > Right? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shawn Fertch" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:23 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question > > > Okay, I'm reading DNS/Bind by O'Rielly. I'm going through setting up > > all of my db.domain files per the book. I get to the point of getting > > it up and running, yet it failed. Named starts and continues to run, > > however when I do a tail of the syslog, I get a no "TTL specified" for > > all of my db files. Yet, I do have it specified. Here's the > > beginning of one of my files: > > > > 192.168.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA host.domain.org. e.mail.address. ( > > 1 ;Serial > > 10800 ;Refresh after 3 hours > > 3600 ;Retry after 1 hour > > 604800 ;Expire after 1 week > > 86400) ;Minimum TTL of 1 day > > > > What I'm curious is, is there something I mistyped? I went per the > > book, and everything looks correct. However, the book is for Bind8 > > and Bind 9 is on the server. Is there that much of a difference to > > cause this issue? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shawn > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- Excellent day to have a rotten day. From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 25 14:27:38 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sun to Charge for Star Office 6.0 In-Reply-To: <1014618115.3c79d80356ea1@dragon> References: <20020224235911.K24279@real-time.com> <1014618115.3c79d80356ea1@dragon> Message-ID: <20020225193748.D3B9760304@friday.localdomain.fake> On Monday 25 February 2002 12:21 am, you wrote: > You know what's REALLY stupid about this? > > SOLARIS IS FREE! Not for x86 anymore. Check their site, they decided to pull it off. -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com -- There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter. -- Ernest Hemingway From cbidler at innominatus.com Mon Feb 25 14:33:03 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (Chris Johnson Bidler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: Procmail scoring (was Re: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts ) References: <20020225190723.GA11592@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >I only check the body, and unfortunately, it's not signature or MIME >aware. PGP signatures, therefore, add to the Signal score as opposed to >the Noise score. > Why should PGP signatures add to the Noise score? I know that clients exist (cf. KMail) which will deal with them in a non-"noisy" manner, and further- more, they're useful information for those of us who like to be sure our mail gets where it's going in the state we sent it. :) (yes, I realize this message isn't PGP-signed. As soon as I either 1)Get KMail working, or 2) break down and try mutt, I'll start adding ~10 points the the Noise score of each of my posts!) From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Mon Feb 25 15:05:05 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: Procmail scoring (was Re: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts ) In-Reply-To: <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> References: <20020225190723.GA11592@wookimus.net> <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <1014670433.1684.144.camel@yafa> Have you tried Ximian's Evolution? If you have all the GNOME libs installed then it works better under KDE than under GNOME and Ximian GNOME. It integrates seamlessly with GPG. -- Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/a8459add/attachment.pgp From jim at herrick.net Mon Feb 25 15:06:18 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question In-Reply-To: <20020225193442.EEFD560304@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020223132341.33d1e9ab.fertch@mninter.net> <015201c1bca2$78af4200$0100a8c0@host209> <20020225193442.EEFD560304@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <200202252042.g1PKfwS16604@flanders.workgroup> Doesn't "negative TTL" mean the time-to-live for a missing or non-existant record (NXDOMAIN or something)? > That isnt actuly an error, everything should still be running, its just > letting you know you didnt specify a TTL. The confusion is the TTL in the > SOA isnt really a TTL anymore, its a "Negitive TTL" and means something > slightly different. I dont remember exactly what, but I am sure some site > will tell you. So you now have to put a > > $TTL ##### > > statement as your first line if you want to specify a TTL. (Highly > recomened- its never a good idea to just let the computer decide things > like that) > > > Jay > > On Saturday 23 February 2002 01:44 pm, you wrote: > > You need a "zone" default TTL at the top of the file. The first line > > should read: > > > > $ttl 86400 > > > > or using some other value. This is required because each resource > > record in the zone must have a TTL and uses the default TTL, unless you > > specify one for said record. > > > > Right? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Shawn Fertch" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 1:23 PM > > Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question > > > > > Okay, I'm reading DNS/Bind by O'Rielly. I'm going through setting up > > > all of my db.domain files per the book. I get to the point of getting > > > it up and running, yet it failed. Named starts and continues to run, > > > however when I do a tail of the syslog, I get a no "TTL specified" for > > > all of my db files. Yet, I do have it specified. Here's the > > > beginning of one of my files: > > > > > > 192.168.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA host.domain.org. e.mail.address. ( > > > 1 ;Serial > > > 10800 ;Refresh after 3 hours > > > 3600 ;Retry after 1 hour > > > 604800 ;Expire after 1 week > > > 86400) ;Minimum TTL of 1 day > > > > > > What I'm curious is, is there something I mistyped? I went per the > > > book, and everything looks correct. However, the book is for Bind8 > > > and Bind 9 is on the server. Is there that much of a difference to > > > cause this issue? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Shawn > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > > Minnesota > > > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Mon Feb 25 15:11:51 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question In-Reply-To: <20020225193442.EEFD560304@friday.localdomain.fake> References: <20020223132341.33d1e9ab.fertch@mninter.net> <015201c1bca2$78af4200$0100a8c0@host209> <20020225193442.EEFD560304@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <200202252042.g1PKgdS16608@flanders.workgroup> Sorry for un-trimmed post. VERY bad habit that will take getting used to. From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 15:36:06 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: Procmail scoring (was Re: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts ) In-Reply-To: <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> References: <20020225190723.GA11592@wookimus.net> <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <20020225211952.GB11592@wookimus.net> I wrote: > I only check the body, and unfortunately, it's not signature or MIME > aware. PGP signatures, therefore, add to the Signal score as opposed > to the Noise score. Chris Johnson Bidler wrote: > Why should PGP signatures add to the Noise score? They shouldn't. They shouldn't even factor in, really. I should have stated such, "...as opposed to being ignored". IMHO, a good base scoring rule for emails would look something like this: +2 per quoted line ("^>" or "name>") -1 per unquoted line +10 per "Original Message" +1 per "quoted header" +5 for signatures > 4 lines (following a "^--$") -20 Content-Type: text/plain +20 for content-Type: text/html etc... A positive score means that the mail is too noisy. I suppose that since PGP signatures add to the signal, to nullify, I could add a score to positively counteract that. Notice how a multipart/mixed message that contains both HTML and plain text nullify eachother. This doesn't factor in the score bonus that people would get for having the HTML portion of the body, however. This simple little scoring algorithm is VERY succeptable to false positives. It's only a simple way to flag possible noise. I'll need a more sophisticated mail analyzer to get a true signal:noise ratio. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/3239508e/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Mon Feb 25 16:02:05 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: Procmail scoring (was Re: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts ) In-Reply-To: <20020225211952.GB11592@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 03:19:52PM -0600 References: <20020225190723.GA11592@wookimus.net> <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> <20020225211952.GB11592@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020225155147.C509@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 03:19:52PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > +5 for signatures > 4 lines (following a "^--$") ITYM "^-- $", or at least "^-- ?$". You wouldn't want to only detect incorrectly separated sigs, after all. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Feb 25 16:03:22 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: Procmail scoring (was Re: [TCLUG] Re: (REMINDER) Trim your posts ) In-Reply-To: <20020225211952.GB11592@wookimus.net> References: <20020225190723.GA11592@wookimus.net> <3C7A9BCE.5060202@innominatus.com> <20020225211952.GB11592@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020225155429.A3591@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 03:19:52PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > They shouldn't. They shouldn't even factor in, really. I should have > stated such, "...as opposed to being ignored". IMHO, a good base > scoring rule for emails would look something like this: > > +5 for signatures > 4 lines (following a "^--$") That should be "^-- $" or possibly "^-- ?$" if you're feeling permissive. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From kremer at ringworld.org Mon Feb 25 16:53:29 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lycoris and video settings In-Reply-To: <200202251843.g1PIh6029900@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: I was messing around with Lycoris last night and during the install told it to default to 1152x864 screen resolution. But for some reason it will only do 640x480. I checked the XF86config-4 file and it has lines for several resolutions. Hitting +/- does not change it on the fly either. I know the video card and monitor support these resolutions. ATI Rage XL. Any ideas? If I don't figure it out (or even if I do) I'll probably end up playing with a couple other distros that I've been hearing about lately. I'm guessing it's probably something simple, since I always make things more difficult than they should be... maybe this should be marked SQ? - Kremer From seg at haxxed.mine.nu Mon Feb 25 18:51:14 2002 From: seg at haxxed.mine.nu (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> <20020225064418.GA19481@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3C7AD921.2050204@haxxed.mine.nu> >>1) replies don't happen because they're too much trouble to get to >> the list >> > > What does this have to do with Reply-To munging? Sounds like the person > wants to get direct replies as well as replies to the list. Perhaps a > request to be Cc:'d on subsequent posts would make sense, yet, that > would be a user-request wouldn't it? Something useful for the Reply-To: > field. Ummm. Everything sent to the list gets sent to you. Isn't that the point? Maybe this makes more sense on a list that doesn't require subscription. But how many are in the days of SPAM? >>2) Reply-All happens, and half the time the poor originator gets >> two copies of the reply. >> > > Sounds like people need to learn how to use their email clients. > Ignorance of one's software does not qualify as an excuse to be > obnoxious about one's email. Yes it does. Rule one of the internet is the internet is full of fucktards. >>3) otherwise interesting and on-topic discussions move to private >> e-mail, and the list never sees them > > That is a lesson in discipline, not a correction via "Reply-To" munging. > If people aren't knowledgable about their email clients and how to use > them properly, then it's high time they learn. Rule two of the internet is the internet is full of fucktards. >>I only know of a handful of lists that don't do Reply-To munging. One >>is a Solaris help list - it has a strong culture of 'post your >>problem, collect the answers from everyone, post back a summary >>including what fixed it to the list'. It works there. It is one of >>the few scenarios where I can see it being useful - you need that >>really strong list culture. >> > > Then that's what should happen. A strong list culture, where netiquette > and responsible moderators help guide the discussion. Rule three of the internet is the internet is full of fucktards. > I would say it's more like our situation. No one makes any decisions. > The debate flares up, but nothing is done. The environment that rules > is the one that is initially set up. After that, very little changes > unless something large in scale happens to influence it. I.e. spamming > of the list. Thats because the majority is in favor of leaving it the hell alone. From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 20:54:35 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <3C7AD921.2050204@haxxed.mine.nu> References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> <20020225064418.GA19481@wookimus.net> <3C7AD921.2050204@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020226024949.GA15502@wookimus.net> Callum, I'm so glad you have all of that constructive input saved up to benefit our discussion. -- ^chewie Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/b749bb72/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 21:09:08 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] text windowing environment? In-Reply-To: <20020223004121.R28355@real-time.com> References: <20020223004121.R28355@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020226030304.GB15502@wookimus.net> On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 12:41:21AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > newt looks like it's the low level api for window management. I'm > guessing there are several language bindings to newt? Here from the description in the availables: Package: libnewt0 Priority: standard Section: base Installed-Size: 112 Maintainer: Enrique Zanardi Architecture: i386 Source: newt Version: 0.50.17-9.4 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.4-4), slang1 (>> 1.4.4-7.1) Conflicts: libnewt-utf8-0 Filename: pool/main/n/newt/libnewt0_0.50.17-9.4_i386.deb Size: 34416 MD5sum: 574dba454e977f18c96f70f6cbc93cba Description: Not Erik's Windowing Toolkit - text mode windowing with slang Newt is a windowing toolkit for text mode built from the slang library. It allows color text mode applications to easily use stackable windows, push buttons, check boxes, radio buttons, lists, entry fields, labels, and displayable text. Scrollbars are supported, and forms may be nested to provide extra functionality. This package contains the shared library for programs that have been built with newt. There are python bindings for newt. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/c85bdf8f/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Feb 25 21:25:09 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020226031518.GC15502@wookimus.net> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:39:43PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > I set a "Reply-To" address on my outgoing mail (which is probably bad, > since some mailing lists won't touch a pre-existing header), so people > know to reply to my @csom address rather than my IP. Actually, that is exactly what "Reply-To" headers are supposed to be used for. IMHO, "Reply-To" headers are for the /original sender/ to ask recipients to send to a different destination for replies than that which is found in the "From:" header. Arguably, the sender could have tried to spoof the "From:" header before sending the email. You may wish to try this, though it sounds like your SMTP server is being rather draconic as well. Mutt has decided to use the "Mail-Followup-To:" header to resolve some of the ambiguity and obvious dissonance around the use of the "Reply-To" header. It's unlikely your SMTP server will clean this header out of its outgoing email. -- ^chewie (Info via "chewie@wookimus.net" with the Subject: "get info") -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020225/768193f1/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Mon Feb 25 21:59:01 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Logging Message-ID: <20020226034656.4D08960304@friday.localdomain.fake> Ok, I know there are several applications out there that watch for port scanning and the like, so maybe one of those can help out with this. One of the servers I maintain is a vairly high traffic web server. As a result, there are tons of "break-in" attempts. These are hardly anything to be too worried about, but the security log tells me about them, mostly people trying to anonymous ftp in, or trying to ssh in as user anonymous (I dont even know WHY anyone would have that user a system user in the first place). Is there some way I can get an "instant" notification via email when someone trys to log in via ssh/ftp/etc (that logs to the security log) that ISNT annonymous? For example, the other day, 2 IP's (in the same subnet, so presumebly the same person) tryed to FTP and ssh in close to 100 times with various user-names. None of the usernames were correct, and even if the person did have one, we have a strong password rule and time delays on failed logins for everything, so it should take a few years before he gets close- but it would be nice to know the instant something like that happens so we can report it to the ISP faster, or take appropriate actions (like shutting down the service/blocking the IP if need be). Any other tools/practices that you would recomend for this sort of senerio would also help, as this is not to uncommon of an occurance anymore. And before everyone yells to get off FTP and use SCP- that isnt an option. But users who have FTP access dont have accounts, and those with accounts dont use FTP, so it should be fine. Jay -- Jay Kline list@slushpupie.com http://www.slushpupie.com From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Mon Feb 25 23:42:09 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lycoris selling preloaded HP PC's. Message-ID: <200202260538.g1Q5cob13428@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Not the best value in the world and I'm sure HP is not directly involved with the OS aspects, but at least it's a start. http://www.lycoris.com/products/pcs.php From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Tue Feb 26 08:51:02 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VOODOO3 3D Acceleration Message-ID: <3C7B9E76.E8AC091C@attbroadband.com> You definitely want hardware acceleration if you are going to play games. This is provided by the DRI module. First check your XF86Config file under: Section "Module" there should be and entry Load "DRI" there should also be another entry load "glx". If they are there then tail the /var/log/XFree86.0.log file following system start up. You should see a message such as Direct rendering enabled. If not then DRI is configured but failing for some reason. Should be an error message in the in the same log. If you do not have it I would suggest you begin by going to http://dri.sourceforge.net/ and looking at the documentation section. There is a DRI beginners guide and a DRI user guide. The documentation will talk about MTRR and AGP. in RH 7.1 and 7.2 these things are already enabled. No need to compile the kernel. VOODOO3 should work with XFree86-4.1 Of course I got the same sense about the ATI card but I finally ended up with XFree86-4.2 which got a lot more complicated. Let us know how it goes. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From esper at sherohman.org Tue Feb 26 09:04:03 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <3C7AD921.2050204@haxxed.mine.nu>; from seg@haxxed.mine.nu on Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 06:38:57PM -0600 References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> <20020225064418.GA19481@wookimus.net> <3C7AD921.2050204@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20020226085750.A8578@sherohman.org> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 06:38:57PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > What does this have to do with Reply-To munging? Sounds like the person > > wants to get direct replies as well as replies to the list. Perhaps a > > request to be Cc:'d on subsequent posts would make sense, yet, that > > would be a user-request wouldn't it? Something useful for the Reply-To: > > field. > > Ummm. Everything sent to the list gets sent to you. Isn't that the point? Yes, but you may choose to filter high-volume lists into a separate mailbox, but want replies to your messages to that list to also land in your main inbox so you see them sooner. (Not a hypothetical situation - I do this with the Debian lists.) > Maybe this makes more sense on a list that doesn't require subscription. > But how many are in the days of SPAM? The Debian lists accept posts from non-subscribers. I'm not sure whether this list does or not. I also run a couple of them for committees and the board of a local nonprofit, since it doesn't make sense to require someone to subject themselves to all of a committee's business just to ask them a question and the board list is restricted to board members only. > Rule one of the internet is the internet is full of fucktards. > Rule two of the internet is the internet is full of fucktards. > Rule three of the internet is the internet is full of fucktards. Feeling a little redundant today, Callum? > > I would say it's more like our situation. No one makes any decisions. > > The debate flares up, but nothing is done. The environment that rules > > is the one that is initially set up. > Thats because the majority is in favor of leaving it the hell alone. IOW, the majority do _not_ favor reply-to: munging. Nor do they disfavor it. They're just too lazy to care. Which is exactly what the person you were replying to (but then chopped out the attribution - naughty, naughty!) was saying. There's a vocal pro-munging minority and a vocal anti-munging minority, but the vast majority of people show no sign of giving a damn one way or the other. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From chrome at real-time.com Tue Feb 26 09:36:02 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020226085750.A8578@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 08:57:51AM -0600 References: <20020222054646.GB30062@wookimus.net> <20020222183943.3b6d8aaf.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020223102914.B13984@sherohman.org> <20020224201306.B6249@fireopal.org> <20020225064418.GA19481@wookimus.net> <3C7AD921.2050204@haxxed.mine.nu> <20020226085750.A8578@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 08:57:51AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > IOW, the majority do _not_ favor reply-to: munging. Nor do they > disfavor it. They're just too lazy to care. then let us hold a vote on the issue. that way the will of the majority (at least of those who care to vote) will be demonstrated; and we can say that we at least tried to do something and weren't all talk and no action. at that point the issue can be passed off to Herr Diktator Tanner; who will promptly do whatever he wants. :) as for me, count me in on the side of munging the Reply-To: header. makes replying to the list much more convenient. I hit 'reply' to reply to the list; and if I feel like personally bothering the original poster with my drivel, as well as the list in general, I hit 'reply to all'. these are the common cases. in the uncommon case that I want to reply to just the person; I copy&paste his address into the To: field. I say optimize for the common case. This is a listserv, not a general mail relay. Carl. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Tue Feb 26 09:43:22 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lycoris selling preloaded HP PC's. References: <200202260538.g1Q5cob13428@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C7BAAB6.B258ED7C@attbroadband.com> Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > Not the best value in the world and I'm sure HP is not directly involved with > the OS aspects, but at least it's a start. > > http://www.lycoris.com/products/pcs.php > _______________________________________________ I donno. At least it comes with a nic. Something I can't say for most of the Walmart PC's. And it is a name brand. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From sos at zjod.net Tue Feb 26 09:58:26 2002 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Logging In-Reply-To: <20020226034656.4D08960304@friday.localdomain.fake> from "Jay Kline" at Feb 25, 2002 09:46:56 PM Message-ID: <200202261548.g1QFmxS06793@zjod.net> Jay Kline wrote: > > Ok, I know there are several applications out there that watch for port > scanning and the like, so maybe one of those can help out with this. > > One of the servers I maintain is a vairly high traffic web server. As a > result, there are tons of "break-in" attempts. These are hardly anything > to be too worried about, but the security log tells me about them, mostly > people trying to anonymous ftp in, or trying to ssh in as user anonymous > (I dont even know WHY anyone would have that user a system user in the > first place). Is there some way I can get an "instant" notification via > email when someone trys to log in via ssh/ftp/etc (that logs to the > security log) that ISNT annonymous? For example, the other day, 2 IP's (in > the same subnet, so presumebly the same person) tryed to FTP and ssh in > close to 100 times with various user-names. None of the usernames were > correct, and even if the person did have one, we have a strong password > rule and time delays on failed logins for everything, so it should take a > few years before he gets close- but it would be nice to know the instant > something like that happens so we can report it to the ISP faster, or take > appropriate actions (like shutting down the service/blocking the IP if > need be). > > Any other tools/practices that you would recomend for this sort of senerio > would also help, as this is not to uncommon of an occurance anymore. And > before everyone yells to get off FTP and use SCP- that isnt an option. > But users who have FTP access dont have accounts, and those with accounts > dont use FTP, so it should be fine. > > > Jay > -- > Jay Kline > list@slushpupie.com > http://www.slushpupie.com Yeah, there is a way to tell which account is accessed.. 1- use tcpwrappers NOTE that if you're using ssh, this also means that you need to configure ssh to also use TCP wrappers when you build it. Basically, this means that whey you go to build ssh from source, you need to run "configure" with the "--with-libwrap" option set, but it also means doing some other stuff, so read the ssh documentation first. 2- Your /etc/hosts.allow should look something like: > # > # hosts.allow This file describes the names of the hosts which are > # allowed to use the local INET services, as decided by > # the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. > # > ALL: LOCAL : banners /etc/banners/allow : spawn = (/etc/hosts.msg connection allowed %a %c %h %n %d %p %u ) & > > # End of hosts.allow. 3- Your /etc/hosts.deny should look something like: > # hosts.deny This file describes the names of the hosts which are > # *not* allowed to use the local INET services, as decided > # by the '/usr/sbin/tcpd' server. > # > # > ALL:ALL:banners /etc/banners/deny:spawn = (/etc/hosts.msg connection denied %a %c %h %n %d %p %u ) & > # End of hosts.deny. 4- The script /etc/hosts.msg (which you need to write) can then do stuff based on the values of "connection {denied,allowed}" and the value of the %u parameter. "%u" is the userid, or if the userid can't be resolved/isn't given, it'll contain the word "unknown". As an example of what you can do with /etc/hosts.msg, a part of the one I use contains: > echo "`date +'%b %d %T'` $*" >> /tmp/connections/$3 > /usr/X11/bin/xmessage -geom 800x102+2+2 -display :1.0 "`date +'%b %d %T'` $*" > /dev/null 2>&1 & > /bin/echo "Alarm: $*" | /bin/mail -n -s "security alert" root@localhost > /dev/null 2>&1 > /usr/bin/play /usr/lib/sounds/siren.wav Where: - the /tmp/connections/* files track connection history by ip address, - the xmessage is a pop-up on my main X screen, - the email goes to my "security-alerts" file (via procmail), and - the siren.wav file gets my attention (especially if it goes off 20 times in 5 seconds ;-) BTW: if you want to give any particular IP address the "death penalty", just have /etc/hosts.msgs add the IP address to the bottom of /etc/hosts.deny. I.e.: to kill off further contact with 111.222.333.444, append the line > ALL: 111.222.333.444 to the bottom of /etc/hosts.deny. Hope this helps'idly, -S From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Tue Feb 26 10:10:41 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lycoris and video settings References: Message-ID: <3C7BAFAD.D8ADA571@attbroadband.com> Kremer wrote: > > I was messing around with Lycoris last night and during the install told > it to default to 1152x864 screen resolution. But for some reason it will > only do 640x480. I've had some luck with specifying a specific chipid but I think this is a problem specific to my card. You can get the ChipId with a scanpci command. You might also check the depth many cards don't support 24. Another problem I had was using a card that had video out. If there was a "TV" attached the card would only support 640x480 Try running Xconfigurator Here's what I have. Section Device Identifier "Card0" Driver "ati" VendorName "ATI" BoardName "Rage 128 Pro FF" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" ChipId 0x5046 VideoRam 32768 Option "Display" "CRT" Option "AGPMode" "2" EndSection Section Screen Identifier "Scrren0" Device "Card0" Monitor "monitor0" DefaultDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1024X768" "800x600" EndSubSection EndSection Paul Overby xpoverby@attbi.com From idsfa at visi.com Tue Feb 26 11:05:12 2002 From: idsfa at visi.com (Michael Kellen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Logging In-Reply-To: <200202261520.g1QFK7012816@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200202261520.g1QFK7012816@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1014742808.9293.0.camel@mitethe> On Tue, 2002-02-26 Jay Kline wrote: > Is there some way I can get an "instant" notification via > email when someone trys to log in via ssh/ftp/etc (that logs to the > security log) that ISNT annonymous? Quick and dirty, cause I have to leave now ... #!/usr/bin/perl $logfile = "/var/log/auth.log"; open(LOG, "tail -f $logfile|"); while () { chomp; @logline=split(/ /, $_, 6); next if ($logline[5] =~ /anonymous/); alert (@logline) if (($logline[5] =~ /illegal user/) || ($logline[5] =~ /some ftp failure pattern/) # etc etc ); } close(LOG); exit 0; # Needs to be restarted when logs get rotated sub alert() { open(MAIL,"|mailx -s 'Security Alert' $ALERT_LIST'); print MAIL "$_[4] $_[5]\n.\n"; close(MAIL); } -- $ fortune -m Kellen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020226/bb663c4c/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Feb 26 11:33:28 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > as for me, count me in on the side of munging the Reply-To: header. makes > replying to the list much more convenient. I hit 'reply' to reply to the > list; and if I feel like personally bothering the original poster with my > drivel, as well as the list in general, I hit 'reply to all'. > these are the common cases. Hmm.. this goes against what I perceived to be the general mailing list logic. To reply to the sender, hit reply. To reply to the list, reply to all. This is the way I was taught to set up lists and they way I always do it. I thought that was just kind of accepted as the method everyone used. Is there an RFC on this anywhere? -Brian From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 26 11:38:18 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Security Logging In-Reply-To: <20020226034656.4D08960304@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > but it would be nice to know the instant something like that happens > so we can report it to the ISP faster, or take appropriate actions > (like shutting down the service/blocking the IP if need be). check out swatch. configure it to run in the background, and e-mail/page you.. easy! -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Feb 26 11:54:12 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] Message-ID: My 2 cents: I prefer the default be munging of the "Reply-To:" header also. It is more convenient for me. Replying to the sender only is a special case, and IMHO deserves to be handled that way. RFC: I don't know. >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 02/26/02 11:12AM >>> >>On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: >> as for me, count me in on the side of munging the Reply-To: header. makes >> replying to the list much more convenient. I hit 'reply' to reply to the >> list; and if I feel like personally bothering the original poster with my >> drivel, as well as the list in general, I hit 'reply to all'. >> these are the common cases. >Hmm.. this goes against what I perceived to be the general mailing list >logic. To reply to the sender, hit reply. To reply to the list, reply to >all. This is the way I was taught to set up lists and they way I always >do it. I thought that was just kind of accepted as the method everyone >used. >Is there an RFC on this anywhere? From joel at joelschneider.net Tue Feb 26 13:25:03 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 11:12:17AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020226131352.A15620@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 11:12:17AM -0600, Brian wrote: > On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > as for me, count me in on the side of munging the Reply-To: header. makes > > replying to the list much more convenient. I hit 'reply' to reply to the > > list; and if I feel like personally bothering the original poster with my > > drivel, as well as the list in general, I hit 'reply to all'. > > these are the common cases. > > Hmm.. this goes against what I perceived to be the general mailing list > logic. To reply to the sender, hit reply. To reply to the list, reply to > all. This is the way I was taught to set up lists and they way I always > do it. I thought that was just kind of accepted as the method everyone > used. > > Is there an RFC on this anywhere? Apparently, it is a controversial topic. Searching google for "reply-to considered harmful" turns up some interesting results. One page claims that reply-to munging is helpful and quotes an excerpt from RFC-822 that appears to sanction reply-to munging for mailing lists: http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml On the other hand, another page claims that reply-to munging is harmful and that the relevant RFCs (822 and 1123) are poorly specified and defective: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html You can count me in favor of doing reply-to munging on the tclug lists. Joel From chrome at real-time.com Tue Feb 26 13:40:04 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 11:12:17AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> > Hmm.. this goes against what I perceived to be the general mailing list > logic. To reply to the sender, hit reply. To reply to the list, reply to > all. This is the way I was taught to set up lists and they way I always > do it. I thought that was just kind of accepted as the method everyone > used. the problem I see with this, is that if you reply to all; the address of the person you replied to, will appear in the list of To: or cc: addresses, when the post appears on the list. if someone then replies to *that* message, it ends up going to the list, and as a personal reply to anyone that has been sent a personal message, and to the sender. after several generations of this, you can end up with a lot of people all recieving personal copies of a message. in some ways this is good; but if the topic strays, it might get a bit irksome. I see it happen all the time on the netbsd-hpcmips list. It also goes against the principle (IMHO) of keeping messages short and simple. including extraneous people in replies, is as bad as extraneous text (worse, if you're one of the people recieving an extraneous copy). in any case; isn't sending mail to multiple recipients who want to read it, what the list is for in the first place? (mail sorting and list queue time problems aside). Carl. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From rotbau at squishnet.com Tue Feb 26 14:19:05 2002 From: rotbau at squishnet.com (Bob Bauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question Message-ID: <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com> Ok folks, political/richard morrell rants aside, I have a couple of questions about smooth wall. 1. when I issued a halt command while logged onto the box with smoothwall installed I saw a message that said "eth0 entering promiscuous mode" as the box was shutting down. Is this just a way of saying that it is resetting the ipchains policies back to the default accept or something more sinister? In my experience promiscuous mode is not a good thing for you card to be at unless you are running a sniffer. 2. is this product any good. I haven't seen any hacks for it yet but I don't know if it is any good. Cheers, rotbau From joel at joelschneider.net Tue Feb 26 15:11:24 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question In-Reply-To: <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com>; from rotbau@squishnet.com on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 08:03:44PM +0000 References: <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com> Message-ID: <20020226150119.C15620@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 08:03:44PM +0000, Bob Bauer wrote: > 2. is this product any good. I haven't seen any hacks for > it yet but I don't know if it is any good. I don't have any first hand experience with smoothwall, but I know of some diskette-based alternatives: http://www.coyotelinux.com/ http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ Also, Mandrake and SuSE both offer firewall products: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/snf http://www.suse.com/us/products/suse_business/firewall/ And there's always [OT] OpenBSD: http://www.openbsd.org/ Apparently, Smoothwall recently received a bad review from c't (Slashdot discussion): http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/09/2050237 Joel From jim at herrick.net Tue Feb 26 16:42:02 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question In-Reply-To: <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com> References: <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com> Message-ID: <200202262222.g1QMMsS18902@flanders.workgroup> Excellent product. Suits all my needs for firewalling, dial-on-demand, DNS proxy, WWW proxy, DHCP server, DMZ support, IDS (snort), VPN (still learning about this, though it uses IPSEC) and SSH using a linux kernel. All in a 20-30 MB ISO image!!! I love it!!! > Ok folks, political/richard morrell rants aside, I have a > couple of questions about smooth wall. > > 1. when I issued a halt command while logged onto the box > with smoothwall installed I saw a message that said "eth0 > entering promiscuous mode" as the box was shutting down. > Is this just a way of saying that it is resetting the > ipchains policies back to the default accept or something > more sinister? In my experience promiscuous mode is not a > good thing for you card to be at unless you are running a > sniffer. > > 2. is this product any good. I haven't seen any hacks for > it yet but I don't know if it is any good. > > Cheers, > > rotbau > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cznews at att.net Tue Feb 26 17:00:08 2002 From: cznews at att.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020225093843.01b6d830@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> My father helps run the computer network for a small public library in Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides about 15 machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. As you can guess, they have been Nimda'd & everything else imaginable to death. They have a T1 line to a Cisco 1605R router (no firewall software installed) to a network hub. I first suggested they insert a Linux box running IPcop before I knew they had the router. What do you think the best, easiest, cheapest setup would be? Linux firewall box, purchase software for the Cisco, purchase a simple Linksys router w/firewall software already in it.... Keep in mind that these are all library volunteers with VERY little knowledge in this area. It's hard to walk them through stuff from here. From cznews at att.net Tue Feb 26 17:01:13 2002 From: cznews at att.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> My father helps run the computer network for a small public library in Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides about 15 machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. As you can guess, they have been Nimda'd & everything else imaginable to death. They have a T1 line to a Cisco 1605R router (no firewall software installed) to a network hub. I first suggested they insert a Linux box running IPcop, because they have lots of old machines they can use. What do you think the best, easiest, cheapest setup would be? Linux firewall box, purchase software for the Cisco, purchase a simple Linksys router w/firewall software already in it.... Keep in mind that these are all library volunteers with VERY little knowledge in this area (I don't have much more). It's hard to walk them through complex stuff from here. Thanks From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 26 17:20:23 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351517B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> The Cisco IOS firewalling code works quite well. If he has the equipment and an IOS upgrade would be cheap, I would suggest that. Putting a separate box in for the firewall when you already have one piece of equipment capable of doing what you want is just adding needless complexity and one more thing to manage. Actually, he might be able to get the new IOS code because of the SNMP vulnerabilities recently. Cisco usually offers free upgrades when security holes are found. Of course, a firewall isn't going to save you from vulnerabilities in publically accessible services (like IIS). You'll still have to make sure you patch your servers. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Zeilon [mailto:cznews@att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:20 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? > > > My father helps run the computer network for a small public > library in > Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides > about 15 > machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, > etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. > As you can > guess, they have been Nimda'd & everything else imaginable to > death. They > have a T1 line to a Cisco 1605R router (no firewall software > installed) to > a network hub. I first suggested they insert a Linux box > running IPcop, > because they have lots of old machines they can use. What do > you think the > best, easiest, cheapest setup would be? Linux firewall box, purchase > software for the Cisco, purchase a simple Linksys router w/firewall > software already in it.... Keep in mind that these are all library > volunteers with VERY little knowledge in this area (I don't have much > more). It's hard to walk them through complex stuff from > here. Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Feb 26 17:21:19 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351517C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> That is probably because smoothwall has snort installed on it. You're probably seeing this message as a result of snort stopping or starting. I'd ditch smoothwall for Mandrake's SNF or BBI Agent (http://www.bbiagent.com) Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Bauer [mailto:rotbau@squishnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:04 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question > > > Ok folks, political/richard morrell rants aside, I have a > couple of questions about smooth wall. > > 1. when I issued a halt command while logged onto the box > with smoothwall installed I saw a message that said "eth0 > entering promiscuous mode" as the box was shutting down. > Is this just a way of saying that it is resetting the > ipchains policies back to the default accept or something > more sinister? In my experience promiscuous mode is not a > good thing for you card to be at unless you are running a > sniffer. > > 2. is this product any good. I haven't seen any hacks for > it yet but I don't know if it is any good. > > Cheers, > > rotbau > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From myok at ogzr.org Tue Feb 26 17:24:53 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question In-Reply-To: <200202262222.g1QMMsS18902@flanders.workgroup> References: <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com> <1014753824.1rotbau@squishnet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226171359.009e86f0@ogzr.org> At 04:22 PM 2/26/02 -0600, rotbau wrote: > > > > 1. when I issued a halt command while logged onto the box > > with smoothwall installed I saw a message that said "eth0 > > entering promiscuous mode" as the box was shutting down. > > Is this just a way of saying that it is resetting the > > ipchains policies back to the default accept or something > > more sinister? In my experience promiscuous mode is not a > > good thing for you card to be at unless you are running a > > sniffer. > > That would be snort turning itself on or off. It's returning the interface to whatever mode it was in before snort ran. Sometimes that means you get an "entering promiscuous mode" during shutdown. It's good to know, but not a big deal. Many/most IDS systems run in promiscuous mode unless explicitly configured otherwise, so they can monitor packets for a whole network. -- Carl Patten From natecars at real-time.com Tue Feb 26 17:34:05 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020225093843.01b6d830@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Carl Zeilon wrote: > My father helps run the computer network for a small public library in > Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides about 15 > machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, > etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. As you > can guess, they have been Nimda'd & everything else imaginable to > death. They have a T1 line to a Cisco 1605R router (no firewall > software installed) to a network hub. I first suggested they insert a > Linux box running IPcop before I knew they had the router. What do > you think the best, easiest, cheapest setup would be? Linux firewall > box, purchase software for the Cisco, purchase a simple Linksys router > w/firewall software already in it.... Keep in mind that these are all > library volunteers with VERY little knowledge in this area. It's hard > to walk them through stuff from here. Simplest + (close to) cheapest would be the Linksys thing. Best, IMHO, would be a Linux box.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From joel at joelschneider.net Tue Feb 26 17:51:04 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>; from cznews@att.net on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 10:20:08AM -0600 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20020226174618.D15620@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 10:20:08AM -0600, Carl Zeilon wrote: > My father helps run the computer network for a small public library in > Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides about 15 > machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, > etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. It sounds like the library is trying to do too much with one server. Ideally, there should be a firewall between the internal machines and machines running services, such as the library's web server, that are at high risk of being attacked because they are accessible from the internet. Or, the library might be better off putting everything behind a firewall and having their ISP host the library's web site. Joel From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Feb 26 19:03:02 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 Message-ID: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> I picked this game up at Micro Center recently. Anyone playing it? I am having a problem. (Not with setup, but with play.) We can discuss this off list. -- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020226/9e7901f0/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Feb 26 19:19:03 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20020226190638.4e706b2b.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Carl Zeilon wrote: > > My father helps run the computer network for a small public library in > Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides about 15 > machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, > etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. As you can > guess, they have been Nimda'd & everything else imaginable to death. They > have a T1 line to a Cisco 1605R router (no firewall software installed) to > a network hub. [...] Hmm.. First off, I'll note that putting a website behind a firewall is no way to protect it from attacks coming in on port 80. If you have that hole poked in the wall, everything that can fit there can come through it (Nimda would still get in, for example). Of course, if this is an internal-only website, it doesn't matter.. It'd be best to isolate public services from private ones. I'd recommend putting the website on a separate server, and put it on a different network, if possible. It could be another firewalled network, or it could be put in the `DMZ' between your router and a firewall. I guess this could be difficult if the card catalog is integrated with the website or something, though.. Regardless, since port 80 is visible to the outside, someone will have to watch Microsoft's update sites for patches to IIS all of the time.. I'd have to think that you'd be able to set up something sufficient with the software that's already on the router, but maybe not. It'd probably be a pain to set up, though. Linksys boxes are pretty nice, and they allow configuration through a good web interface. They allow port-forwarding and other fun tricks, but you can only have one subnet behind a box (I think -- I guess the only one I've played with was a single-port model). A Linux box would be good for someone who likes fiddling with things and making a very custom solution, but is probably overkill here. You might be able to assemble something cheaper than getting a Linksys, but the computer would take up a lot more space, suck more power, etc.. I'd probably end up going for a Linux box myself, but I'm concerned about support for future protocols like IPv6 and stuff too.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Do you want fries with / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ that? \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020226/5a0dc60b/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Tue Feb 26 20:53:17 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG RPM mirror apt'd Message-ID: <20020226204816.J20180@real-time.com> Thanks to IdiotBen's help, the TCLUG RedHat mirror is now apt-ified for Redhat 7.2 and Redhat 6.2 i386 packages. I'll let Ben fill in the blanks on how you need to do on the client side to take make your box apt-aware. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From mcolivier at earthlink.net Tue Feb 26 21:30:19 2002 From: mcolivier at earthlink.net (Marc Olivier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mysql Message-ID: Hello. I have SuSE Linux 7.3 and I cannot get access to the tables. My host hame is "linux" and my domain is "local". The .conf files I have seen refer to "localhost" ; does this make any difference? Marc From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 26 21:49:53 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smoothwall question In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351517C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351517C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020226214636.07c4da90.fertch@mninter.net> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:11:00 -0600 "Austad, Jay" wrote: > That is probably because smoothwall has snort installed on it. You're > probably seeing this message as a result of snort stopping or starting. > > I'd ditch smoothwall for Mandrake's SNF or BBI Agent > (http://www.bbiagent.com) I'm looking at dropping smoothwall, and today I noticed an article in this week's info world magazine. The talk about a free firewall based off of RH. It's from Mitel, and is called SME Server V5. Looks fairly straightforward, and possibly easier to use. No direct link, listed except for to the main page. http://www.mitel.com Anyone have thoughts on it? Shawn From joel at joelschneider.net Tue Feb 26 22:07:39 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mysql In-Reply-To: ; from mcolivier@earthlink.net on Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 09:30:06PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020226214736.B15874@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 09:30:06PM -0600, Marc Olivier wrote: > Hello. > I have SuSE Linux 7.3 and I cannot get access to the tables. My host hame is > "linux" and my domain is "local". The .conf files I have seen refer to > "localhost" ; does this make any difference? Yes, it makes a difference. The host/domain name is an integral part of the MySQL privilege system: http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/manual_MySQL_Database_Administration.html#Privileges Joel From fertch at mninter.net Tue Feb 26 22:11:28 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hopefully a simple DNS/BIND question In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC177@postman.transition.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC177@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <20020226220221.41f79879.fertch@mninter.net> On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:54:50 -0600 Steve Grobe wrote: > Check out the very first line. This is working for me > using bind 9.x. Good luck. > > > $TTL 3h > ; SOA RECORD AREA Okay, cool this worked. Haven't had a chance to look at Bind's website yet, though I need to. I got past this issue, but came up with another. Nothing new huh? Now I'm getting a now "0 SOA records" and "could not find NS and/or SOA records" in my in-addr-arpa zones. Dang changes between versions... Gotta go research this. Might swing by Barnes and Noble tomorrow after work and see if they have the new book that cover Bind 9. Which sucks because my no-longer-current one is less than 6 months old... Thanks to everyone who helped on my first issue, much appreciated. If I understand this correctly, I should now have a time to live, and should theoretically be able to look things up via name, but not reverse/ip yet correct? Shawn From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 27 00:51:19 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 In-Reply-To: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 06:59:08PM -0600, Jim Kaufman wrote: > I picked this game up at Micro Center recently. Anyone playing it? I > am having a problem. (Not with setup, but with play.) I bought it -- who can pass up a $5 game -- but I haven't installed it. Most of my time has been spent on Heroes 3, which runs well. I've played Heretic 2 in the Windows environment way back when, but I've long since abandoned Windows. Therefore, my Windows games have been equally forgotton. I have Quake3, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Unreal Tournament, Railroad Tycoon, Heretic II, and Heroes 3 now. What need have I for Windows? ;-) Throw in the fabulous Free Software games and Open Source games, and I've got a veritable cornocopia of entertainment software to play with. I repeat, rhetorically -- that means I don't want an answer -- what need have I for Windows? Can't really help you out on game play problems. It's pretty cool, though for a 3rd person isometric "shooter" based on the Quake II engine. (Basically, the put you in follow mode the whole time by default.) -- ^chewie -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/7470380c/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Feb 27 00:54:33 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New RedHat Beta; pensacola Message-ID: <20020227004502.A30471@real-time.com> A new redhat beta is being leeched as I type this. It's called pensacola and it -will- be available here: ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/redhat/linux/beta/pensacola -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 27 01:05:03 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20020227065006.GC3936@wookimus.net> {Side note: it's so nice to be able to type 'L' to reply to the list in mutt again. (^chewie hugs his procmail filters.)} In referencing the release notes for the Cisco 1605R, it looks like they do provide a Firewall image for the router. This is not the simplest or cheapest route for the library to take, but I would be comfortable in saying that it'd probably be the most secure (if we exclude the SNMP bugs that "ALL" Cisco equipment is succeptable to) and most supported. Cisco has some nice Windoze management software for the router, and if all else fails, can be accessed from the serial port for the IOS command line. An added bonus may be that the ISP the library is currently getting service from could manage the router as well. The library wouldn't have to worry about configuring things or screwing things up, and can rely upon the ISP's expertise in this field. That alone would offset the cost of having someone develop an in-house expertise for such things. Libraries, I can assume, don't really have the buget or personel to spare. I would only suggest such an organization take on Linux if they have either in-house expertise with time to manage it, or if they can find someone to provide service for them in either a per-incident/hourly basis or some sort of contract basis. The cheapest solution isn't always the best solution. I learned that the hard way. -- ^chewie -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/77bc8e9a/attachment.pgp From john at schererzoo.com Wed Feb 27 01:58:02 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall suggestions? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020226101135.01c27058@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <1014766755.1614.7.camel@elgato> IPCOP is great. The install is simple enough for my 12 yr old Son can do it. And the web UI is simple and easy to understand. And it comes with snort! Just my 2-cents -John On Tue, 2002-02-26 at 10:20, Carl Zeilon wrote: > My father helps run the computer network for a small public library in > Maine. They run a W2000 server (donated by MS) that provides about 15 > machines with Internet access, book checkout data, card catalog info, > etc. They also host the library's website from this machine. As you can > guess, they have been Nimda'd & everything else imaginable to death. They > have a T1 line to a Cisco 1605R router (no firewall software installed) to > a network hub. I first suggested they insert a Linux box running IPcop, > because they have lots of old machines they can use. What do you think the > best, easiest, cheapest setup would be? Linux firewall box, purchase > software for the Cisco, purchase a simple Linksys router w/firewall > software already in it.... Keep in mind that these are all library > volunteers with VERY little knowledge in this area (I don't have much > more). It's hard to walk them through complex stuff from here. Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 27 02:03:40 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:25:28PM -0600, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > the problem I see with this, is that if you reply to all; the address > of the person you replied to, will appear in the list of To: or cc: > addresses, when the post appears on the list. if someone then replies > to *that* message, it ends up going to the list, and as a personal > reply to anyone that has been sent a personal message, and to the > sender. You should take a look at some of the flame wars that start up on the debian-devel list over the use of "Cc:" in email. Some people post to the devel list that are not members, and request that they be "Cc:" into every reply. Some are smart enough to seed their own address there with the first post so that email clients that aren't too smart will continue to do so. Other developers HATE, despise, and curse people who include them in the "Cc:" as a result of poor use of email clients or simple laziness. This complaint resides under the logic that the developer already subscribes to the list and don't want two copies, and it is usually never a reason to add "Reply-To" munging. It comes up occassionally from newbies to the list, but it is quickly disregarded by the larger veteran population. Alternatively, if the discussion is to be taken off list, the "Reply-To" field is a better seed for such redirection. Maybe you'd like to move a discussion from one list to another. Use the "Reply-To" field to redirect further posts to the thread. Since clients tend to obey "Reply-To" fields, you can reasonably assume that everyone will be able to make the cross-over. "Reply-To" is simply far too useful to go munging it with a listserver. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/b2381db0/attachment.pgp From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Feb 27 03:13:24 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 01:51:32AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 01:51:32AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Alternatively, if the discussion is to be taken off list, the "Reply-To" > field is a better seed for such redirection. Maybe you'd like to move a > discussion from one list to another. Use the "Reply-To" field to > redirect further posts to the thread. Since clients tend to obey > "Reply-To" fields, you can reasonably assume that everyone will be able > to make the cross-over. Sounds like a mixed bag to me. Thread participants not subscribed to the new list could be lost from the thread, thereby creating confusion, and temptation for writers to add them to the "Cc:" field. Not a terribly elegant solution, IMHO. Instead of attempting to hijack the thread by setting "Reply-To", why not simply establish a protocol for putting the thread on the other list, if it really belongs there? <:-)> On the other hand, maybe it would make sense to "enhance" the functionality of "Reply-To" by adding scriptability and regular expressions ... (sort of like a mini-procmail) > "Reply-To" is simply far too useful to go munging it with a listserver. I disagree with this conclusion. My inclination is to follow the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle where possible and optimize for the most common scenario (e.g. sending mail back to the list). I'm also inclined to think that not just anyone should be armed with the capability to easily manipulate the default behavior of list traffic -- that authority should be reserved for list admins or other types of moderators. Joel From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Wed Feb 27 06:58:04 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (Jim Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 Message-ID: <20020227065754.A23407@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> This is a followup to my own question. Guess what? It was operator error. I had thought I had done soemthing during the play of the game, but actually hadn't completed the action. I ran through the game again, and figured it out. For those of you who bought the game, but haven't tried it yet... Install it already. The CD contains version 1.06 of the game. Use loki_update to update to version 1.06b. That will add this: 1.06b enhancements include: * Updated internal libraries, including SDL 1.2.0 * Fix deadlock in software mode with XFree86 4.0 * Default to using the system OpenGL library * Added --windowed and --fullscreen command line options * Improved movie playback performance * Fixed several trigger crashes from loaded save games * Fixed music playback on some SCSI CD-ROM drives * Updated to work with the Loki Update Tool Enhancements in the 1.06a update include: * Fully rewritten video and input subsystem, utilizing SDL 1.1.1 * Optimized MMX assembly for the software renderer * Completely reorganized internal linking architecture * Many crash fixes * Joystick support .. and many more improvements. -- Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/f01d3d7e/attachment.pgp From dutchman at uswest.net Wed Feb 27 07:18:25 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy References: Message-ID: <3C7CD88F.4E66699E@mn.uswest.net> 1. ppp is not running 2. /dev/modem still points to /dev/ttyS4 3. See the line "ttyS04 at port 0xccOO (irq 11) is a 16550A" in my sytem startup log Perry Hoekstra wrote: > >From: "Bob Gilbertson" > >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy > >Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:02:55 -0600 > > > >Been configuring the modem on my Mandrake box. Perhaps similar enough > >config. to help. > > > >1. Check if ppp|kppp is already running. Try ps or ps|grep variant to > >determine. > >Try kill off running process if found. > > > >2. Perhaps your modem was moved to a different ttyS device. Check > >/dev/modem link to > >see which ttySx it points to. > >Then use minicom to try connect to various ttyS's starting from 0 up. > >Change link to > >point to ttyS minicom finds modem on. > > > >HTH, > > > >Bob > > > >Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > > > > The other day, I started up my box and my mouse plug must not have been > > > all the way in (kids!). Kudzu (RH 7.2) detected that I had no mouse and > > > asked me if I wanted to remove the driver. I said 'Do Nothing', made > > > sure that the plug was seated and recycled the computer. Ever since > > > then, I have not been able to use the modem. When I try to dial out, it > > > states that the resource is busy. Short of removing and reinstalling > > > the modem, is there any way to clear this resource conflict? > > > > > > -- > > > Perry Hoekstra > >_______________________________________________ > >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > >Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > Perry Hoekstra, MS > E-Commerce Architect > Talent Software Services > perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Feb 27 08:26:18 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy Message-ID: Have you checked out settings in the BIOS and in you /proc/ file system (interrupts and ports?) to see if any obvious conflict is visible there? Sorry if this was already suggested...and good luck! Troy >>> dutchman@uswest.net 02/27/02 07:01AM >>> 1. ppp is not running 2. /dev/modem still points to /dev/ttyS4 3. See the line "ttyS04 at port 0xccOO (irq 11) is a 16550A" in my sytem startup log From esper at sherohman.org Wed Feb 27 08:59:17 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net>; from joel@joelschneider.net on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 03:07:05AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 03:07:05AM -0600, Joel Schneider wrote: > <:-)> > On the other hand, maybe it would make sense to "enhance" the > functionality of "Reply-To" by adding scriptability and regular > expressions ... (sort of like a mini-procmail) > Just so long as the syntax is human-readable... > I disagree with this conclusion. My inclination is to follow the > K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle where possible and > optimize for the most common scenario (e.g. sending mail back to the > list). ...or for MUAs to start adding support for a 'reply to list' function. (/me joins ^chewie's lovefest for mutt's 'L' command) > I'm also inclined to think that not just anyone should be armed with > the capability to easily manipulate the default behavior of list > traffic -- that authority should be reserved for list admins or > other types of moderators. Since when is it Bob's job to decide where my mail should go or where I should receive replies? BTW - most lists that mung reply-to won't override a user-specified reply-to, they'll only add one where none exists, which leaves posters with the ability to "manipulate the default behavior of list traffic" originating from them. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 27 09:01:56 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New RedHat Beta; pensacola In-Reply-To: <20020227004502.A30471@real-time.com> References: <20020227004502.A30471@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020227145452.GA456@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:45:02AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > A new redhat beta is being leeched as I type this. > > It's called pensacola and it -will- be available here: > > ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/redhat/linux/beta/pensacola Now, now, Bob... if you want to really tease us, please do a cd $PENSACOLA/RPMS; ls | gzip | mail tclug-list@mn-linux.org florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/799394b9/attachment.pgp From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Feb 27 09:33:23 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 08:47:34AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net> <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020227092558.A16583@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 08:47:34AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 03:07:05AM -0600, Joel Schneider wrote: > > <:-)> > > On the other hand, maybe it would make sense to "enhance" the > > functionality of "Reply-To" by adding scriptability and regular > > expressions ... (sort of like a mini-procmail) > > > > Just so long as the syntax is human-readable... mmmkay. > > I disagree with this conclusion. My inclination is to follow the > > K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle where possible and > > optimize for the most common scenario (e.g. sending mail back to the > > list). > > ...or for MUAs to start adding support for a 'reply to list' > function. (/me joins ^chewie's lovefest for mutt's 'L' command) Too bad everyone is not fortunate enough to be using mutt. > > I'm also inclined to think that not just anyone should be armed with > > the capability to easily manipulate the default behavior of list > > traffic -- that authority should be reserved for list admins or > > other types of moderators. > > Since when is it Bob's job to decide where my mail should go or where > I should receive replies? Since when is it your job to decide where my mail should go? The endless circle continues ... > BTW - most lists that mung reply-to won't > override a user-specified reply-to, they'll only add one where none > exists, which leaves posters with the ability to "manipulate the > default behavior of list traffic" originating from them. That sounds a little bit funky to me. Oh well. .. now double-checking to make sure this message is addressed to tclug-list@mn-linux.org .. Joel From bgilbertson at stonel.com Wed Feb 27 09:35:32 2002 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy References: <3C7CD88F.4E66699E@mn.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3C7CFB47.8556B2E8@stonel.com> Which ttyS did minicom find a modem at, if any? Bob Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > 1. ppp is not running > > 2. /dev/modem still points to /dev/ttyS4 > > 3. See the line "ttyS04 at port 0xccOO (irq 11) is a 16550A" in my sytem startup > log > > > >From: "Bob Gilbertson" > > > > > >2. Perhaps your modem was moved to a different ttyS device. Check > > >/dev/modem link to > > >see which ttySx it points to. > > >Then use minicom to try connect to various ttyS's starting from 0 up. > > >Change link to > > >point to ttyS minicom finds modem on. > > > From bgilbertson at stonel.com Wed Feb 27 09:58:49 2002 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem Resource Busy References: <3C7CD88F.4E66699E@mn.uswest.net> <3C7CFB47.8556B2E8@stonel.com> Message-ID: <3C7CFE5D.2B1D4FCA@stonel.com> Also might look here: http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Modem-HOWTO-17.html Bob Bob Gilbertson wrote: > > Which ttyS did minicom find a modem at, if any? > > Bob > From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Feb 27 10:07:01 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake 8.2 beta 3 In-Reply-To: <20020225155429.A3591@gordo.space.umn.edu> References: <20020225211952.GB11592@wookimus.net> <20020225155429.A3591@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200202270948.2350@ellegon.com> On Monday 25 February 2002 03:54 pm, you wrote: As of this writing, I'm downloading the Mandrake 8.2 beta 3 isos; is there anybody who wants me to upload copies to some local ftp host? Early reports are that 8.2 appears to be pretty stable at this point, although with still some bugs and glitches; for details, see http://www.mandrakeforum.com/article.php?lang=en&sid=1913 I'd caution against upgrading if you're using root RAID (as I am); that's apparently a tricky/risk proposition at this point, but probably not a bad idea for a new installation. Anybody else using root RAID, btw? It used to be bleeding edge, but both the current Mandrake and (as I understand it) recent Red Hat versions make it easy -- it's just a matter of creating a non-RAID boot partition, creating the RAID (your choice of flavors; I'm using RAID-5) partition, a file system on it, and assigning it as the / partitition. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 10:09:01 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG RPM mirror apt'd In-Reply-To: <20020226204816.J20180@real-time.com> References: <20020226204816.J20180@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020227155450.GB6481@sistina.com> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 08:48:16PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: >Thanks to IdiotBen's help, the TCLUG RedHat mirror is now apt-ified for Redhat >7.2 and Redhat 6.2 i386 packages. >I'll let Ben fill in the blanks on how you need to do on the client side to take >make your box apt-aware. In order to use apt-get under redhat you'll need to get the rpm from http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/apt/redhat-extra-7.2/redhat/RPMS.extra/ and then read all of the following pages. http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/ http://apt4rpm.sourceforge.net/ref.html Then edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to and add #---- snip rpm ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/ apt/redhat-7.2-i386/redhat os #rpm ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/ apt/redhat-extra-7.2/redhat extra rpm ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/ apt/redhat-updates-7.2/redhat os rpm-src ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/ apt/redhat-7.2-i386/redhat os #rpm ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/ apt/redhat-extra-7.2/redhat extra rpm-src ftp://ftp.mn-linux.org/linux/ apt/redhat-updates-7.2/redhat os #----- end snip You only need the ones for the distribution you use. If you have a 6.2 box and want to upgrade to 7.2 using apt just add the 7.2 lines. Also you'll notice i have commented out the "extra" repositories, that's because those aren't apt-get ready yet. One you edit your sources.list you can run "apt-get update" as root. This will grab a set of package databases. At this point your ready to use apt to manage your rpms. Please refer to man 8 apt man 8 apt-get man 8 apt-config man 8 apt-cache man 5 apt.conf For more detailed instructions. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/23330872/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 10:11:06 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 In-Reply-To: <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> References: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020227155850.GC6481@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:33:05AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >forgotton. I have Quake3, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Unreal >Tournament, Railroad Tycoon, Heretic II, and Heroes 3 now. What need >have I for Windows? ;-) Hrm let me count the ways. 1. Medal of Honor Allied Assaul 2. Diablo 3. Diablo2 4. Close Combat (II) 5. Close Combat (III) 6. C&C >though for a 3rd person isometric "shooter" based on the Quake II >engine. (Basically, the put you in follow mode the whole time by >default.) Ewwww, can you change that? -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/69b94e88/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Feb 27 10:26:05 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested Message-ID: As our network grows and our laziness takes over, bad things start to happen. We're running in a Novell/NT hybrid environment and we've isolated down some issues that we think equates to some nasty congestion on the network. When 8:00 hits, the network slows to a crawl in parts of the net. I'd like to set up a linux laptop to watch our network for some things that should not be. Specifically: Protocols (shouldn't be anything other than TCP/IP and IPX) Frame types (Ethernet 802.2 only) What software would you suggest using for such a project? I know linux kicks Microsoft where it hurts when it comes to tracking down these problems, but I don't know what applications to use. Thanks! -Brian From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 27 10:28:56 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New RedHat Beta; pensacola In-Reply-To: <20020227145452.GA456@iucha.net> References: <20020227004502.A30471@real-time.com> <20020227145452.GA456@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020227161357.GA8200@wookimus.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 08:54:52AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > Now, now, Bob... if you want to really tease us, please do a cd > $PENSACOLA/RPMS; ls | gzip | mail tclug-list@mn-linux.org One edit on that command: #!/bin/sh RPMS=$PENSACOLA/RPMS ls -laR $RPMS | gzip | uuencode > /tmp/ls-laR.gzu while true; do mail florin < ls-laR.gzu interval=`head -c 100 /dev/urandom |tr -dc '[0-9]'|tail -c 4` echo "Muhahahaaaa! Eat that florin!" sleep $interval # Give a slight chance to stop the flood [ "X$interval" = "X9999" ] && break done -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/fb52ee29/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 10:50:34 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020227163552.GF6481@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:23:30AM -0600, Brian wrote: >What software would you suggest using for such a project? I know linux >kicks Microsoft where it hurts when it comes to tracking down these >problems, but I don't know what applications to use. Snort http://snort.sf.net/ Ethereal http://www.ethereal.com/ If you have managed switches you could segment the network into vlans this would help isolate the problem areas. You could even go so far as to get some cheap PCs and make stackless packet scrubbers using hogwash http://hogwash.sf.net/ and stick them in strategic locations (they're essentially really smart bridges that "scrub" packets) on your network. Happy hacking. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/87d6bc27/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 10:51:44 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New RedHat Beta; pensacola In-Reply-To: <20020227161357.GA8200@wookimus.net> References: <20020227004502.A30471@real-time.com> <20020227145452.GA456@iucha.net> <20020227161357.GA8200@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020227163658.GG6481@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:13:57AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 08:54:52AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: >> Now, now, Bob... if you want to really tease us, please do a cd >> $PENSACOLA/RPMS; ls | gzip | mail tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >One edit on that command: > > #!/bin/sh > RPMS=$PENSACOLA/RPMS > ls -laR $RPMS | gzip | uuencode > /tmp/ls-laR.gzu > while true; do > mail florin < ls-laR.gzu > interval=`head -c 100 /dev/urandom |tr -dc '[0-9]'|tail -c 4` > echo "Muhahahaaaa! Eat that florin!" > sleep $interval > # Give a slight chance to stop the flood > [ "X$interval" = "X9999" ] && break > done /me ssh's into gladiator and lays waste to florins mailbox.... -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/0841042b/attachment.pgp From myok at ogzr.org Wed Feb 27 11:05:48 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020227104237.00a18730@ogzr.org> At 10:23 AM 2/27/02 -0600, Brian wrote: >As our network grows and our laziness takes over, bad things start to >happen. We're running in a Novell/NT hybrid environment and we've >isolated down some issues that we think equates to some nasty congestion >on the network. When 8:00 hits, the network slows to a crawl in parts of >the net. > >I'd like to set up a linux laptop to watch our network for some things >that should not be. Specifically: > >Protocols (shouldn't be anything other than TCP/IP and IPX) >Frame types (Ethernet 802.2 only) > >What software would you suggest using for such a project? I know linux >kicks Microsoft where it hurts when it comes to tracking down these >problems, but I don't know what applications to use. I would set up the laptop with Linux and a Gnome desktop, and run etherape to get a visual picture of busy protocols and hosts. Then I'd use ethereal to grab packets and look at frame types and protocols in more detail. If ethereal craps out (as it does sometimes) then tcpdump gathers the same info, just not as easy to read or filter. If your network has Cisco routers, then MRTG does a great job of graphing traffic over time. You could narrow down busy segments that way. Alternately, ntop also does a decent job of displaying network traffic, and can do so via a web page. Am thinking a TCLUG session on packet sniffing would be interesting. -- Carl Patten From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Feb 27 11:09:28 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested Message-ID: Brian, I have used Ethereal, and it looks OK, but I haven't tracked any real problems with it. I have noticed the large number of IPX broadcasts (along with ATP broadcasts, but we have fewer of those) on my local network. I have been told that IPX doesn't negotiate an optimum window size for for bulk packet transfers, it sends one packet at a time, which can be pretty inefficient. Is everything switched, or do you have some hub segments? If you do have some larger collision domains, are the problems located there (or downstream from there)? Just stirring things up, and wishing you good luck! Troy >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 02/27/02 10:23AM >>> As our network grows and our laziness takes over, bad things start to happen. We're running in a Novell/NT hybrid environment and we've isolated down some issues that we think equates to some nasty congestion on the network. When 8:00 hits, the network slows to a crawl in parts of the net. I'd like to set up a linux laptop to watch our network for some things that should not be. Specifically: Protocols (shouldn't be anything other than TCP/IP and IPX) Frame types (Ethernet 802.2 only) What software would you suggest using for such a project? I know linux kicks Microsoft where it hurts when it comes to tracking down these problems, but I don't know what applications to use. Thanks! -Brian _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 27 11:10:46 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] testing reply-to munging Message-ID: <20020227165304.GD8200@wookimus.net> So, let's see if Mailman refrains from munging the Reply-To header from what I set it to in my original email (what you're looking at): "devnull@domain.tld" ... (I doubt it.) -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/db75e556/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Feb 27 11:14:13 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 In-Reply-To: <20020227155850.GC6481@sistina.com> References: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> <20020227155850.GC6481@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020227164646.GC8200@wookimus.net> Ben Lutgens wrote regarding my question of "What need have I for Windows?" in context of Windows games: > Hrm let me count the ways. > 1. Medal of Honor Allied Assaul ...[truncated list]... WineX -- Wine + Transgaming patches for DirectX mapping. http://www.transgaming.com/ -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. $(mailx -s 'get info' chewie@wookimus.net) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/8dd916c7/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Wed Feb 27 11:37:09 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 01:51:32AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020227112326.R5254@real-time.com> > Some people post to > the devel list that are not members, and request that they be "Cc:" into > every reply. IMHO, if someone isn't willing to go through the effort to join a list where people might help them; I'm not going to go out of my way to help them. meet me halfway, on the mailing list. > Other developers HATE, despise, and curse people who include them in the > "Cc:" as a result of poor use of email clients or simple laziness. seems like a good argument in favor of munging otherwise-unset Reply-To: headers. > This > complaint resides under the logic that the developer already subscribes > to the list and don't want two copies, and it is usually never a reason > to add "Reply-To" munging. why is it not a reason? setting unset Reply-To: headers will make users more inclined to reply only to the list. > Alternatively, if the discussion is to be taken off list, the "Reply-To" > field is a better seed for such redirection. then make sure the list software doesn't reset otherwise-set Reply-To: headers. > "Reply-To" is simply far too useful to go munging it with a listserver. then mung it when it's not otherwise used, and leave it alone when it is. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From esper at sherohman.org Wed Feb 27 11:45:11 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] testing reply-to munging In-Reply-To: <20020227165304.GD8200@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:53:04AM -0600 References: <20020227165304.GD8200@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020227113003.C17063@sherohman.org> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:53:04AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > So, let's see if Mailman refrains from munging the Reply-To header from > what I set it to in my original email (what you're looking at): > "devnull@domain.tld" > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > X-Reply-To: devnull@domain.tld That seems rather broken... I stand corrected, at least as far as Mailman goes. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 27 11:48:30 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020227092558.A16583@joelschneider.net> References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net> <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org> <20020227092558.A16583@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20020227173247.GB456@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 09:25:58AM -0600, Joel Schneider wrote: > > ...or for MUAs to start adding support for a 'reply to list' > > function. (/me joins ^chewie's lovefest for mutt's 'L' command) > Too bad everyone is not fortunate enough to be using mutt. Explain... There is mutt for Win32 [1] if that is your concern... florin 1. http://unixmail-w32.sourceforge.net/ -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/e92fb505/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Feb 27 11:52:01 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > I have used Ethereal, and it looks OK, but I haven't > tracked any real problems with it. Thanks to Idiot Ben's suggestion, I got it up and running too. Nice little program for analyzing protocols, haven't dug into it too much yet. > Is everything switched, or do you have some hub > segments? If you do have some larger collision > domains, are the problems located there (or > downstream from there)? We are completely switched. We're moving things over to a 1Gb fiber backbone and 100 Mb to the W/S. There are a few 10Mb switches in use but that's pretty minimal. The areas of traffic problems are a few 100Mb segments tied together with the 1Gb fiber segment. One of the problems we've been trying to track down is all the machines set to auto frame types. We know taht's sending a lot of crap onto the network. No Quake protocols are in use currently, but I think I may have to write a filter for that. A few users I suspect are using bandwidth for some "extracurricular activites". -Brian From fertch at mninter.net Wed Feb 27 11:52:53 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 References: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> <20020227155850.GC6481@sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C7D1A1B.556D809D@mninter.net> Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:33:05AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > >forgotton. I have Quake3, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Unreal > >Tournament, Railroad Tycoon, Heretic II, and Heroes 3 now. What need > >have I for Windows? ;-) > > Hrm let me count the ways. > 1. Medal of Honor Allied Assaul > 2. Diablo > 3. Diablo2 > 4. Close Combat (II) > 5. Close Combat (III) > 6. C&C And above all of those, is Everquest! From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 11:55:09 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Heretic 2 In-Reply-To: <20020227164646.GC8200@wookimus.net> References: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> <20020227155850.GC6481@sistina.com> <20020227164646.GC8200@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020227174337.GE6820@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:46:46AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: >Ben Lutgens wrote regarding my question of "What need have I for >Windows?" in context of Windows games: >> Hrm let me count the ways. >> 1. Medal of Honor Allied Assaul >...[truncated list]... > >WineX -- Wine + Transgaming patches for DirectX mapping. it works fair-to-partly-horseshit. Playable but not good. I'd rather reboot to windows and get decent performance. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ Sistina Software Inc. (mail -s "get -info" blutgens-info@sistina.com) for my gpg key, IM info etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/3e3a064d/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Wed Feb 27 11:58:27 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:23:30AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020227113433.S5254@real-time.com> ntop. www.us.ntop.org. or alternatively, apt-get install ntop. it's pretty, it's functional, it can log stuff to databases, it has lots of nifty graphs on its web interface. very good thing to show to management. they'll be impressed by the pretty GUI, and it's pretty easy to figure out the graphs. (and we all know how much managers like graphs). caveat: it's also rather buggy (just ask Bob about his source code audit of it) and if you're going to run it on a public network, it might not hurt to chroot it. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 27 11:59:27 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New RedHat Beta; pensacola In-Reply-To: <20020227163658.GG6481@sistina.com> References: <20020227004502.A30471@real-time.com> <20020227145452.GA456@iucha.net> <20020227161357.GA8200@wookimus.net> <20020227163658.GG6481@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020227173524.GC456@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:36:58AM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:13:57AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > >On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 08:54:52AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > >> Now, now, Bob... if you want to really tease us, please do a cd > >> $PENSACOLA/RPMS; ls | gzip | mail tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > >One edit on that command: > > > > #!/bin/sh > > RPMS=$PENSACOLA/RPMS > > ls -laR $RPMS | gzip | uuencode > /tmp/ls-laR.gzu > > while true; do > > mail florin < ls-laR.gzu > > interval=`head -c 100 /dev/urandom |tr -dc '[0-9]'|tail -c 4` > > echo "Muhahahaaaa! Eat that florin!" > > sleep $interval > > # Give a slight chance to stop the flood > > [ "X$interval" = "X9999" ] && break > > done > > /me ssh's into gladiator and lays waste to florins mailbox.... Do your worst! florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/719de9f2/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Wed Feb 27 12:20:00 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] In-Reply-To: <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 08:47:34AM -0600 References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net> <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020227111606.Q5254@real-time.com> > BTW - most lists that mung reply-to won't > override a user-specified reply-to, they'll only add one where none > exists, which leaves posters with the ability to "manipulate the > default behavior of list traffic" originating from them. seems like an eminently reasonable way to do things. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Feb 27 12:41:02 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested Message-ID: 8am is an odd time for Quake play (I am assuming it isn't 8pm), but to each their own, I suppose. Is 8am when most people arrive and turn on their WinBoxes? Blah, blah, blah... >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 02/27/02 11:36AM >>> >No Quake protocols are in use currently, but I think I may have >to write a filter for that. A few users I suspect are using bandwidth for >some "extracurricular activites". From lbehrens at boolion.com Wed Feb 27 12:46:53 2002 From: lbehrens at boolion.com (Lee J. Behrens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail followups [OT, I guess] Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:13:52 -0600 > From: Joel Schneider > http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Thanks for the links! I vote for the munging. To me, munging makes the list operate as expected: I click reply to reply to the sender of the message, which is the list. I am replying to the community the list supports. Reply-to munging also has the added benefit that the list works the same no matter what e-mail client is used. Lee Behrens From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Feb 27 13:01:27 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You know, I recall there was a particular misfeature where a misconfigured Windows box on a Novell network would do a packet storm related to whatever the misconfiguration is. It was a network thing related to UDP or IPX/SPX. I jsut can't recall what the scenario was. Go ask your Novell admin, that person should know what I'm talking about. Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > 8am is an odd time for Quake play > (I am assuming it isn't 8pm), but to > each their own, I suppose. > > Is 8am when most people arrive > and turn on their WinBoxes? > > Blah, blah, blah... > > >>> lxy@cloudnet.com 02/27/02 11:36AM >>> > >No Quake protocols are in use currently, but I think I may have > >to write a filter for that. A few users I suspect are using bandwidth for > >some "extracurricular activites". > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8fS1UfexLsowstzcRAimxAJ4gs5G5vmpWPEaaEez4UGB+04ZWpACeJ4ER w/4YDQuWbtlGwfrmmsfbVMk= =D7lr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Feb 27 13:05:22 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: <20020227163552.GF6481@sistina.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > You could even go so far as to get some cheap PCs and make stackless packet > scrubbers using hogwash http://hogwash.sf.net/ and stick them in strategic > locations (they're essentially really smart bridges that "scrub" packets) > on your network. Just a note, hogwash is a nice idea but it's a little early to do anything productive with it. The new pf firewalling software in OpenBSD 3.0 has a really nice scrub feature that actually works (as opposed to hogwash, which doesn't) Joshua b. Jore http://www.greentechnologist.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8fSIzfexLsowstzcRAgrsAKChNBH2/OzGupN3gcKS+6E8wENMagCgsxFr pMXt8OjlbgaeV4YHGvtWgJU= =ibwB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Wed Feb 27 13:36:37 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email Message-ID: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an add on to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will allow us to trash this stuff? -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From fertch at mninter.net Wed Feb 27 14:09:26 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <3C7D3BF7.D2CFE189@mninter.net> I read a couple of issues back in Linux Journal on how one can do this. It seemed rather long and drawn out. I believe that there are other solutions out there as well which I think others mentioned here as well. Shawn Raymond Norton wrote: > Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an add on > to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will allow us to > trash this stuff? > -- > Raymond Norton > Little Crow Telemedia Network > 320-234-0270 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 14:36:06 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020227201820.GA10472@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:49:14PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: >Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an add on >to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will allow us to >trash this stuff? http://spamassassin.taint.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/abae62dd/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Feb 27 14:37:31 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020227202402.GD456@iucha.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:49:14PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an add on > to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will allow us to > trash this stuff? man procmail florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/5151050a/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Feb 27 14:44:14 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > 8am is an odd time for Quake play > (I am assuming it isn't 8pm), but to > each their own, I suppose. Two seperate thoughts... users log on around 8 AM, Quake playing just slows it down in general. -Brian From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Feb 27 14:45:12 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <200202271433.35603@ellegon.com> On Wednesday 27 February 2002 12:49 pm, Raymond Norton wrote: > Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an add on > to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will allow us to > trash this stuff? Procmail can filter on content, although you've got to be a bit careful about what phrases you search for, and/or set up some pass rules in advance of the blocking rules, or you're going to trash an invitation for free tickets to "The Vagina monologues", say. "Hot girl-on-girl action", though, should be safe. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From drew at usfamily.net Wed Feb 27 14:46:26 2002 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Really Off Topic!!! (involves being outside) References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <3C7D3BF7.D2CFE189@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3C7D414F.3C76B168@usfamily.net> This post is really really really of topic, but about a fun activity non the less. I dont know how many of you get a chance to entertain your selves with things other than Linux, I'm not even sure if you people go outside, so I thought that I would pitch this in, and see if anyone wants to get some friends together and join in the fun. http://www.farmlandpaintballclub.com/pump/pump.html ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ From tanner at real-time.com Wed Feb 27 15:01:38 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Announcing a beta release of Red Hat Linux: Pensacola Message-ID: <20020227144804.I6096@real-time.com> Interesting. I'd like to check out the clustering stuff! ----- Forwarded message from redhat-announce-list-admin@redhat.com ----- A beta release of a new server-oriented edition of Red Hat Linux, Pensacola, is available for your computer-crashing pleasure. We strongly recommend that this beta not be used for mission-critical applications, and we request that all bugs be filed in Red Hat's Bugzilla database at http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/ Please use the "Red Hat Public Beta" product, and the "pensacola" version. All victims^Wtesters should subscribe to pensacola-list@redhat.com by sending mail to pensacola-list-request@redhat.com with a subject of "subscribe", or by visiting https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/pensacola-list/ Pensacola introduces two new areas of functionality beyond Red Hat Linux 7.2 (Enigma): o Advanced clustering technology o Linux kernel tuned specifically for server workloads Clustering: The clustering capabilities include the existing Piranha technology from the Red Hat High Availability Server product, but now include new shared storage failover clustering. The shared storage failover capabilities include STONITH ("Shoot The Other Node In The Head" -- one node physically removes power from the other node for data fencing), NFS failover, CIFS (samba) failover, and hooks for custom applications (e.g. database) Documentation for the clustering components is not complete, but you can use the older Red Hat High Availability Server documentation at http://ha.redhat.com/docs/high-availability/index.html for setting up Piranha (be aware, FOS is no longer included in Piranha; Piranha is used only for LVS clustering), and there is alpha-quality, incomplete documentation available for the new cluster management tools that will be updated nearly daily at http://people.redhat.com/jrfuller/cms/ Kernel: The kernel tuning includes some larger default values, but more particularly it includes: o IO scalability improvements o Large memory tuning o Multi CPU improvements (scheduler) o POSIX AIO for disk access (database helper) o Network logging and network crashdumps o Hyperthreading support (boot with acpismp=force) Availability: You can get your copy of Pensacola at ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/pensacola/ or at mirrors, listed at http://www.redhat.com/download/mirror.html So far, the list of mirrors known to have synchronized includes: ftp://ftp.dulug.duke.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/pensacola/ ftp://ftp.shuttleamerica/com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/pensacola/ Many more should be available in a matter of hours. Enjoy testing, and remember: file those bug reports! Once again, that's "Red Hat Public Beta" product, "pensacola" version. Thanks! michaelkjohnson "He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book." Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/ _______________________________________________ Redhat-watch-list mailing list To unsubscribe, visit: https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-watch-list _______________________________________________ redhat-announce-list mailing list redhat-announce-list@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-announce-list ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Feb 27 15:05:46 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Really Off Topic!!! (involves being outside) In-Reply-To: <3C7D414F.3C76B168@usfamily.net> References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <3C7D3BF7.D2CFE189@mninter.net> <3C7D414F.3C76B168@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <02022714561900.01707@edith> Re: url. farmlandpaintclub.com Get the to a farmery! Linux geeks would go outside if enough bandwidth was available. I think the cows use it (bandwidth) in secret and are not letting the rest of us use it. I guess I would have to ask Carl about that one :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ P.S. Please ignore the previous statements as they are silly and inane. On Wednesday 27 February 2002 14:27, you wrote: > This post is really really really of topic, but about a fun activity non > the less. I dont know how many of you get a chance to entertain your selves > with things other than Linux, I'm not even sure if you people go outside, > so I thought that I would pitch this in, and see if anyone wants to get > some friends together and join in the fun. > http://www.farmlandpaintballclub.com/pump/pump.html From chrome at real-time.com Wed Feb 27 15:17:05 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us>; from admin@support.lctn.k12.mn.us on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:49:14PM -0600 References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020227150246.E13777@real-time.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:49:14PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an add on > to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will allow us to > trash this stuff? look into mimedefang. it requires a smattering of perl skill (or at least a basic programming understanding), and some sendmail milter understanding; but is very powerful. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Feb 27 15:18:21 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200202271450.34416@ellegon.com> On Wednesday 27 February 2002 02:37 pm, you wrote: > On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > 8am is an odd time for Quake play > > (I am assuming it isn't 8pm), but to > > each their own, I suppose. > > Two seperate thoughts... users log on around 8 AM, Quake playing just > slows it down in general. > > -Brian > Logging on does -- and I've monitored it -- not consume a whole lot of bandwidth, not when we're talking about a 100-meg network or network segment that isn't a constant problem when people are doing more bandwidth-intensive stuff than that. But the time coincidence is . . . interesting. But even if everybody is, say, refreshing their IE caches of whatever websites they monitor upon boot (easy to set up in IE), that would have to be a lot of people monitoring a lot of websites AND refreshing caches at the same time AND some majorly fast Internet connection, given that you can't even flood a 10meg network with a T1 line. The tool I'm most familiar with for this sort of thing is a Windows-only one -- Observer (see http://www.netinst.com) -- and, when I was writing their sales collateral stuff a year or more ago, I couldn't find a competitive Linux package that did all the stuff it did as easily. What I'd want to see is a time-scaled chart of protocols used and stations using them, and packet statistics by station, and (possibly at the same time) see what the network error level is like. I've heard of network cards misbehaving until they're properly warmed up, but I've not seen it. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Feb 27 16:43:20 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: ; from troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:31:22PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020227161708.A16983@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:31:22PM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Is 8am when most people arrive > and turn on their WinBoxes? Could it be ... RealAudio ?? From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Feb 27 16:49:22 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020227163702.E31011@fireopal.org> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:23:30AM -0600, Brian wrote: > As our network grows and our laziness takes over, bad things start to > happen. We're running in a Novell/NT hybrid environment and we've > isolated down some issues that we think equates to some nasty congestion > on the network. When 8:00 hits, the network slows to a crawl in parts of > the net. Have you checked for things in your Novell login script that require an exclusive file-lock? I know that I've seen executables in Novell scripts that could only be run by one user at a time - and the way Novell wrote the scripting engine, it will wait until it can run whatever. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From jwickard at litriusgroup.com Wed Feb 27 18:51:14 2002 From: jwickard at litriusgroup.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Really Off Topic!!! (involves being outside) References: <2928.204.220.56.2.1014835754.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <3C7D3BF7.D2CFE189@mninter.net> <3C7D414F.3C76B168@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <001101c1c0c9$17c41350$8002a8c0@destro> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Nemchenko" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:27 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Really Off Topic!!! (involves being outside) > This post is really really really of topic, but about a fun activity non the less. > I dont know how many of you get a chance to entertain your selves with things other > than Linux, I'm not even sure if you people go outside, so I thought that I would > pitch this in, and see if anyone wants to get some friends together and join in the > fun. http://www.farmlandpaintballclub.com/pump/pump.html I'm not playing paintball unless I can use my autococker. From johndmiller at mn.mediaone.net Wed Feb 27 19:42:12 2002 From: johndmiller at mn.mediaone.net (John Miller) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] getting VCR (the program) to work Message-ID: <20020228013114.DSYZ2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@there> Invalid input source given. Available input sources: v4l1: VIDIOCCAPTURE in ::setCapture v4l1: ioctl VIDIOCCAPUTRE INv4l1if::~v4l1if v4l1: Error closing the v4lx device /dev/video: Bad file descriptor in ::v4lxif The command that I entered is: vcr -c'divx:-) low-motion' -a 'BitRate=900' -t 1m movie.avi If I need to give or create a device for vcr what should I look for . awxtv does work. TIA John Miller From jim at herrick.net Wed Feb 27 21:50:58 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <200202271433.35603@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <9DCB77D01366AA4497DAFA759E1EB58004FE4D@WW1WEX01> Use scoring, too. Thanks to the TCLUG Procmail presentation, I've spent several months developing my procmail rules, though I haven't learned as much as I'd like. Here's my spam.rc (used after I grab friends, family and lists): --- ODDCHARS="[^ -~]" :0 HB * -11^0 * -4^0 H ?? ^Subject: Re: * -8^0 H ?? ^TO.*(myaddress\@mydomain1\.com|myaddress\@mydomain2\.com) * 4^0 H ?? ^To:[ ]*$ * 4^0 H ?? ^To:.*friend * 4^0 H ?? ^from:.*[0-9]@ * 7^0 H ?? ^(From|Received).*\.\<(ar|br|ch|cl|cn|cr|cz|fi|it|hk|jp|kr|mx|my|nl|nu|p l|pt|ro|ru|si|to|tv|tw|vn)\> * 5^0 H ?? ^message-id:[^a-z]*$ * 5^0 H ?? ^subject:.*[ ][ ][0-9][0-9]+$ * 5^0 H ?? ^Received:.*unknown * 2^0 H ?? undisclosed-recipients * 5^0 H ?? ^Subject:[ 1-9]*$ * 5^0 H ?? ^Subject:.*ADV: * 5^0 H ?? ^X-Rocket-Spam * 5^0 H ?? ^X-YahooFilteredBulk * 3^1 H ?? myaddress1\@ * 3^0 (yahoo|mail|msn|starmail|excite|bigfoot|email|hotmail|sohu)\.com * 3^1 \$[0-9],000 * 2^1 [- ](800|888)[- ] * 2^1 \$\$\$* * 2^1 \!\!\!* * 2^0 text/html * 5^0 (real|easy)[- ]*money * 3^1 \.*\.*\ * 3^1 hello[ ]*friend * 2^2 earn \$ * 3^1 \ * 3^1 \ * 3^1 \ * 2^1 $ ()$ODDCHARS$ODDCHARS$ODDCHARS$ODDCHARS+ * 4^1 (from|in)[ ]*the[ ]*subject * 4^1 remove[ ]*your[ ]*email[ ]*address * 4^1 get[- ]*rich[- ]*quick * 3^1 (part|full)[ -]time * 3^1 ((extra|more|enough)[ ]*)money * 2^1 wor(k|king)[ ]*(at|from)[ ]*home * 4^0 to[ ]*be[ ]*(removed|unsubscribed) * 4^0 subject=(auto)?remove|remove\.htm * 3^1 act[ ]*now|\|adult|advertis|afford|amateur|aphrodisiac|appeal|asia|as[ ]*seen[ ]*on|attention|attract|animal * 2^1 background[ ]*check|bank|banned|banner|billion|bills|bingo|black[- ]*jack|bond|boost|boyfriend|britney[ ]*spears|broadcast|bul k |burn[ ]*fat * 2^1 cable |cams|career|cartridge|casino|cell|chat|cheap|china|click[- ]*here|cock|confidential|consolidat|credit * 2^1 dating|dear[ ]*friend|decoder|debt|degree|dentist|diet|domain[ ]*name|diploma|dollars|dvd|doctor|dental * 2^1 earning|ejaculat|erectile.*d[iy]sfunction|e[- ]*commerce|esquire|ebit * 3^1 fantas(y|ies)|fat[ ]burn|fda|finance |fortune|foryou|freedom|freehost|free[ ]*information|free[ ]*vacation|fuck * 3^1 girlfriend|girls|guarantee * 3^1 hard[- ]*core|herbal|hidden|home[ ]*loan|home[ ]*work|horny|hosting|hot |hottest|huge[ ]*sale * 2^0 inches|\|income|increase[ ]*sales|incredible|ink[ ]*jet|insurance|invest * 4^1 jackpot * 2^1 legal|lesbian|libido|\|long[- ]*distance * 2^1 market|mate|merchant[ ]*(status|account)|metabolism|million|\|money|monthly[ ]*payment|mortgage|must[ ]*have * 5^1 naked|\ * 3^1 opportunit|opt[- ]*out|offend|opt[- ]*in|off[- ]shore|optical * 3^1 penis|pervers|petro|pharmac|pheromone|phone|porn|prescription|proven|pro fit|psychic * 3^1 recommend|recession|regist|removal|removed * 3^1 sales|scramble|search engine|secret|sex|shock|shopping|SIC|smoke|snore|snoring|spy|stock|strip per|stuffing.*envelopes|success| suppressed * 3^1 teen|testimon|thousand|toner|traffic * 3^1 uncensored|uncollected|undisclosed|underpaid|unedited|university|unsubsc ribe|urgent * 4^1 vacation|viagra * 4^1 web[- ]*cam|weight|whore|wild|\|win[ ]*cash|women * 6^1 XXX * 6^1 young girls | $PMDIR/reporter.pl --- My reporter.pl looks like this: --- #!/usr/bin/perl # Spamcop reporter open(SENDMAIL, "|/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -t") || die "Cannot open sendmail output"; print SENDMAIL <<"ENDENDEND"; From: $sender To: submit.FXP8WTWSZpOPYi4Y\@spam.spamcop.net Subject: report spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: attachment ENDENDEND while () { print SENDMAIL ; } print SENDMAIL <<"ENDENDEND"; --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam-- ENDENDEND close (SENDMAIL); --- -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Joel Rosenberg Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:37 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; Raymond Norton Subject: Re: [TCLUG] content filter for email On Wednesday 27 February 2002 12:49 pm, Raymond Norton wrote: > Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an > add on to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will > allow us to trash this stuff? Procmail can filter on content, although you've got to be a bit careful about what phrases you search for, and/or set up some pass rules in advance of the blocking rules, or you're going to trash an invitation for free tickets to "The Vagina monologues", say. "Hot girl-on-girl action", though, should be safe. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Feb 27 22:01:44 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: procmail followups [OT, I guess] References: <20020226092321.F1361@real-time.com> <20020226132528.I31687@real-time.com> <20020227075132.GD3936@wookimus.net> <20020227030705.A16460@joelschneider.net> <20020227084733.A16694@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <3C7DA9BB.5050602@ringworld.org> Dave Sherohman wrote: > ...or for MUAs to start adding support for a 'reply to list' > function. (/me joins ^chewie's lovefest for mutt's 'L' command) Mozilla doesn't currently support mail-followup-to:, which sucks. -- Scott Dier From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Feb 27 22:02:53 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott M. Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Heretic 2 References: <20020226185908.A17701@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20020227063305.GB3936@wookimus.net> <20020227155850.GC6481@sistina.com> Message-ID: <3C7DAA3F.2010905@ringworld.org> Ben Lutgens wrote: > 1. Medal of Honor Allied Assaul rtcw :) -- Scott Dier From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Wed Feb 27 22:06:36 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] still having ftp problems Message-ID: <40976.204.220.56.6.1014866644.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> I posted earlier this week about problems connecting to ftp servers from a laptop which is running through my RedHat box to the Internet. I have uncommented a couple lines on my firewall script as advised, but I am still having problems as follows: If I try to use IE for FTP I get: 200 type set to A 500 Invalid port command 500 LPRT 6,16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,255,255,255,255,232,241,2,2,10,7 command not understood If I use a Dos window I seem to connect, but when I do a "ls" I get "invalid port" I have included the script I am using. Please be detailed with any instruction. -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/sh # # rc.firewall - Initial SIMPLE IP Firewall script for Linux 2.4.x and iptables # # Copyright (C) 2001 Oskar Andreasson <blueflux@koffein.net> # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify # it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by # the Free Software Foundation; version 2 of the License. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, # but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program or from the site that you downloaded it # from; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple # Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA # ########################################################################### # # 1. Configuration options. # ########################################################################### # # Local Area Network configuration. # # your LAN's IP range and localhost IP. /24 means to only use the first 24 # bits of the 32 bit IP adress. the same as netmask 255.255.255.0 # LAN_IP="192.168.0.1" LAN_IP_RANGE="192.168.0.0/24" LAN_BCAST_ADRESS="192.168.255.255" LAN_IFACE="eth1" ########################################################################### # # Localhost Configuration. # LO_IFACE="lo" LO_IP="127.0.0.1" ########################################################################### # # Internet Configuration. # INET_IP="" INET_IFACE="eth0" ########################################################################### # # IPTables Configuration. # IPTABLES="/sbin/iptables" ########################################################################### # # 2. Module loading. # # # Needed to initially load modules # /sbin/depmod -a # # Adds some iptables targets like LOG, REJECT and MASQUARADE. # /sbin/modprobe ip_conntrack /sbin/modprobe ip_tables /sbin/modprobe iptable_filter /sbin/modprobe iptable_mangle /sbin/modprobe iptable_nat /sbin/modprobe ipt_LOG #/sbin/modprobe ipt_REJECT #/sbin/modprobe ipt_MASQUERADE # # Support for owner matching # #/sbin/modprobe ipt_owner # # Support for connection tracking of FTP and IRC. # /sbin/modprobe ip_conntrack_ftp /sbin/modprobe ip_conntrack_irc ########################################################################### # # 3. /proc set up. # # Enable ip_forward if you have two or more networks, including the # Internet, that needs forwarding of packets through this box. This is # critical since it is turned off as default in Linux. # echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward # # Dynamic IP users: # #echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_dynaddr ########################################################################### # # 4. IPTables rules set up. # # Set default policies for the INPUT, FORWARD and OUTPUT chains. # $IPTABLES -P INPUT DROP $IPTABLES -P OUTPUT DROP $IPTABLES -P FORWARD DROP # # bad_tcp_packets chain # # Take care of bad TCP packets that we don't want. # $IPTABLES -N bad_tcp_packets $IPTABLES -A bad_tcp_packets -p tcp ! --syn -m state --state NEW -j LOG \ --log-prefix "New not syn:" $IPTABLES -A bad_tcp_packets -p tcp ! --syn -m state --state NEW -j DROP # # Do some checks for obviously spoofed IP's # $IPTABLES -A bad_tcp_packets -i $INET_IFACE -s 192.168.0.0/16 -j DROP $IPTABLES -A bad_tcp_packets -i $INET_IFACE -s 10.0.0.0/8 -j DROP $IPTABLES -A bad_tcp_packets -i $INET_IFACE -s 172.16.0.0/12 -j DROP # # Enable simple IP Forwarding and Network Address Translation # $IPTABLES -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o $INET_IFACE -j SNAT --to-source $INET_IP # # Bad TCP packets we don't want # $IPTABLES -A FORWARD -p tcp -j bad_tcp_packets # # Accept the packets we actually want to forward # $IPTABLES -A FORWARD -i $LAN_IFACE -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A FORWARD -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A FORWARD -m limit --limit 3/minute --limit-burst 3 -j LOG \ --log-level DEBUG --log-prefix "IPT FORWARD packet died: " # # Create separate chains for ICMP, TCP and UDP to traverse # $IPTABLES -N icmp_packets $IPTABLES -N tcp_packets $IPTABLES -N udpincoming_packets # # The allowed chain for TCP connections # $IPTABLES -N allowed $IPTABLES -A allowed -p TCP --syn -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A allowed -p TCP -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A allowed -p TCP -j DROP # # ICMP rules # # Changed rules totally $IPTABLES -A icmp_packets -p ICMP -s 0/0 --icmp-type 8 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A icmp_packets -p ICMP -s 0/0 --icmp-type 11 -j ACCEPT # # TCP rules # $IPTABLES -A tcp_packets -p TCP -s 0/0 --dport 21 -j allowed $IPTABLES -A tcp_packets -p TCP -s 0/0 --dport 22 -j allowed $IPTABLES -A tcp_packets -p TCP -s 0/0 --dport 80 -j allowed $IPTABLES -A tcp_packets -p TCP -s 0/0 --dport 113 -j allowed # # UDP ports # # nondocumented commenting out of these rules #$IPTABLES -A udpincoming_packets -p UDP -s 0/0 --source-port 53 -j ACCEPT #$IPTABLES -A udpincoming_packets -p UDP -s 0/0 --source-port 123 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A udpincoming_packets -p UDP -s 0/0 --source-port 2074 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A udpincoming_packets -p UDP -s 0/0 --source-port 4000 -j ACCEPT ########################## # INPUT chain # # Bad TCP packets we don't want. # $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p tcp -j bad_tcp_packets # # Rules for incoming packets from the internet. # $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ICMP -i $INET_IFACE -j icmp_packets $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p TCP -i $INET_IFACE -j tcp_packets $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p UDP -i $INET_IFACE -j udpincoming_packets # # Rules for special networks not part of the Internet # $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ALL -i $LAN_IFACE -d $LAN_BCAST_ADRESS -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ALL -i $LO_IFACE -s $LO_IP -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ALL -i $LO_IFACE -s $LAN_IP -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ALL -i $LO_IFACE -s $INET_IP -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ALL -i $LAN_IFACE -s $LAN_IP_RANGE -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A INPUT -p ALL -d $INET_IP -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED \ -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A INPUT -m limit --limit 3/minute --limit-burst 3 -j LOG \ --log-level DEBUG --log-prefix "IPT INPUT packet died: " ############################### # OUTPUT chain # # # Bad TCP packets we don't want. # $IPTABLES -A OUTPUT -p tcp -j bad_tcp_packets # # Special OUTPUT rules to decide which IP's to allow. # $IPTABLES -A OUTPUT -p ALL -s $LO_IP -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A OUTPUT -p ALL -s $LAN_IP -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -A OUTPUT -p ALL -s $INET_IP -j ACCEPT # # Log weird packets that don't match the above. # $IPTABLES -A OUTPUT -m limit --limit 3/minute --limit-burst 3 -j LOG \ --log-level DEBUG --log-prefix "IPT OUTPUT packet died: " From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Wed Feb 27 22:18:28 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <9DCB77D01366AA4497DAFA759E1EB58004FE4D@WW1WEX01> References: <9DCB77D01366AA4497DAFA759E1EB58004FE4D@WW1WEX01> Message-ID: <42297.204.220.56.6.1014867180.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> I'm pretty new to all the workings of Procmail, etc.. Just curious if it plays any role for people who are pulling mail from the server using Outlook Express. All my users are accessing their mail from win9x machines, and it is my limited understanding that Procmail is for local delivery to mail boxes on the server? Any clarification would be appreciated. > Use scoring, too. Thanks to the TCLUG Procmail presentation, I've > spent several months developing my procmail rules, though I haven't > learned as much as I'd like. Here's my spam.rc (used after I grab > friends, family and lists): > > --- > > ODDCHARS="[^ -~]" > :0 HB > * -11^0 > * -4^0 H ?? ^Subject: Re: > * -8^0 H ?? ^TO.*(myaddress\@mydomain1\.com|myaddress\@mydomain2\.com) > * 4^0 H ?? ^To:[ ]*$ > * 4^0 H ?? ^To:.*friend > * 4^0 H ?? ^from:.*[0-9]@ > * 7^0 H ?? > ^(From|Received).*\.\<(ar|br|ch|cl|cn|cr|cz|fi|it|hk|jp|kr|mx|my|nl|nu|p > l|pt|ro|ru|si|to|tv|tw|vn)\> > * 5^0 H ?? ^message-id:[^a-z]*$ > * 5^0 H ?? ^subject:.*[ ][ ][0-9][0-9]+$ > * 5^0 H ?? ^Received:.*unknown > * 2^0 H ?? undisclosed-recipients > * 5^0 H ?? ^Subject:[ 1-9]*$ > * 5^0 H ?? ^Subject:.*ADV: > * 5^0 H ?? ^X-Rocket-Spam > * 5^0 H ?? ^X-YahooFilteredBulk > * 3^1 H ?? myaddress1\@ > * 3^0 (yahoo|mail|msn|starmail|excite|bigfoot|email|hotmail|sohu)\.com > * 3^1 \$[0-9],000 > * 2^1 [- ](800|888)[- ] > * 2^1 \$\$\$* > * 2^1 \!\!\!* > * 2^0 text/html > * 5^0 (real|easy)[- ]*money > * 3^1 \.*\.*\ > * 3^1 hello[ ]*friend > * 2^2 earn \$ > * 3^1 \ > * 3^1 \ > * 3^1 \ > * 2^1 $ ()$ODDCHARS$ODDCHARS$ODDCHARS$ODDCHARS+ > * 4^1 (from|in)[ ]*the[ ]*subject > * 4^1 remove[ ]*your[ ]*email[ ]*address > * 4^1 get[- ]*rich[- ]*quick > * 3^1 (part|full)[ -]time > * 3^1 ((extra|more|enough)[ ]*)money > * 2^1 wor(k|king)[ ]*(at|from)[ ]*home > * 4^0 to[ ]*be[ ]*(removed|unsubscribed) > * 4^0 subject=(auto)?remove|remove\.htm > * 3^1 act[ > ]*now|\|adult|advertis|afford|amateur|aphrodisiac|appeal|asia|as[ > ]*seen[ ]*on|attention|attract|animal > * 2^1 background[ > ]*check|bank|banned|banner|billion|bills|bingo|black[- > ]*jack|bond|boost|boyfriend|britney[ ]*spears|broadcast|bul > k |burn[ ]*fat > * 2^1 cable |cams|career|cartridge|casino|cell|chat|cheap|china|click[- > ]*here|cock|confidential|consolidat|credit > * 2^1 dating|dear[ ]*friend|decoder|debt|degree|dentist|diet|domain[ > ]*name|diploma|dollars|dvd|doctor|dental > * 2^1 earning|ejaculat|erectile.*d[iy]sfunction|e[- > ]*commerce|esquire|ebit > * 3^1 fantas(y|ies)|fat[ ]burn|fda|finance > |fortune|foryou|freedom|freehost|free[ ]*information|free[ > ]*vacation|fuck > * 3^1 girlfriend|girls|guarantee > * 3^1 hard[- ]*core|herbal|hidden|home[ ]*loan|home[ > ]*work|horny|hosting|hot |hottest|huge[ ]*sale > * 2^0 inches|\|income|increase[ > ]*sales|incredible|ink[ ]*jet|insurance|invest > * 4^1 jackpot > * 2^1 legal|lesbian|libido|\|long[- ]*distance > * 2^1 market|mate|merchant[ > ]*(status|account)|metabolism|million|\|money|monthly[ > ]*payment|mortgage|must[ ]*have > * 5^1 naked|\ > * 3^1 opportunit|opt[- ]*out|offend|opt[- ]*in|off[- ]shore|optical * > 3^1 > penis|pervers|petro|pharmac|pheromone|phone|porn|prescription|proven|pro > fit|psychic > * 3^1 recommend|recession|regist|removal|removed > * 3^1 sales|scramble|search > engine|secret|sex|shock|shopping|SIC|smoke|snore|snoring|spy|stock|strip > per|stuffing.*envelopes|success| > suppressed > * 3^1 teen|testimon|thousand|toner|traffic > * 3^1 > uncensored|uncollected|undisclosed|underpaid|unedited|university|unsubsc > ribe|urgent > * 4^1 vacation|viagra > * 4^1 web[- ]*cam|weight|whore|wild|\|win[ ]*cash|women > * 6^1 XXX > * 6^1 young girls > | $PMDIR/reporter.pl > > --- > > My reporter.pl looks like this: > > --- > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > # Spamcop reporter > > open(SENDMAIL, "|/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -t") || die "Cannot open > sendmail output"; > > print SENDMAIL <<"ENDENDEND"; > From: $sender > To: submit.FXP8WTWSZpOPYi4Y\@spam.spamcop.net > Subject: report spam > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam" > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > Content-Disposition: attachment > > ENDENDEND > > while () { > print SENDMAIL ; > } > > > print SENDMAIL <<"ENDENDEND"; > > --DeathToSpamDeathToSpamDeathToSpam-- > ENDENDEND > > close (SENDMAIL); > > --- > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Joel Rosenberg > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:37 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; Raymond Norton > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] content filter for email > > > On Wednesday 27 February 2002 12:49 pm, Raymond Norton wrote: >> Our users are getting hammered with porn in their email. Is there an >> add on to Sendmail, or some other area of the mail process that will >> allow us to trash this stuff? > > Procmail can filter on content, although you've got to be a bit careful > about > what phrases you search for, and/or set up some pass rules in advance > of the > blocking rules, or you're going to trash an invitation for free tickets > to > "The Vagina monologues", say. > > "Hot girl-on-girl action", though, should be safe. > > -- > ------------------------------------- > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. > ------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Feb 27 22:51:03 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Feeling a little congested In-Reply-To: <200202271450.34416@ellegon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > Logging on does -- and I've monitored it -- not consume a whole lot of > bandwidth, not when we're talking about a 100-meg network or network segment > that isn't a constant problem when people are doing more bandwidth-intensive > stuff than that. Well, one particular bottleneck is a specific SQL application. At least, that's where the problem seems to manifest itself the most. At 7 AM, it's fine. At 9 AM, it's fine. At 8 AM... God help you. I plan to set up an analyzer of some sort (ntop may be the winner) to take a look at that segment and capture trends from 7 AM to 9 AM. I'm hoping to see a massive spike between 7:45 and 8:15. I might give Observer a try as well. -Brian From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Feb 27 23:26:01 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <42297.204.220.56.6.1014867180.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us>; from admin@support.lctn.k12.mn.us on Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 09:33:00PM -0600 References: <9DCB77D01366AA4497DAFA759E1EB58004FE4D@WW1WEX01> <42297.204.220.56.6.1014867180.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020227231045.D16983@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 09:33:00PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I'm pretty new to all the workings of Procmail, etc.. Just curious if it > plays any role for people who are pulling mail from the server using > Outlook Express. All my users are accessing their mail from win9x machines, > and it is my limited understanding that Procmail is for local delivery to > mail boxes on the server? Any clarification would be appreciated. AFAIK, Outlook uses proprietary file formats to store its email messages, so you'd be out of luck when it comes to 3rd party tools such as procmail. You might, however, find the following to be of interest: http://unixmail-w32.sourceforge.net/ Unixmail for Windows is a suite of unix mail tools, including the popular fetchmail, mutt, and GPG, that runs on top of CygWin (a free toolkit that provides unix-like functionality under windows). Doesn't currently include procmail, but that appears to be coming "soon." Joel From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Feb 27 23:47:12 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] content filter for email In-Reply-To: <20020227231045.D16983@joelschneider.net> References: <9DCB77D01366AA4497DAFA759E1EB58004FE4D@WW1WEX01> <42297.204.220.56.6.1014867180.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> <20020227231045.D16983@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20020228054419.GA2304@sistina.com> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 11:10:45PM -0600, Joel Schneider wrote: > >Unixmail for Windows is a suite of unix mail tools, including the >popular fetchmail, mutt, and GPG, that runs on top of CygWin (a free >toolkit that provides unix-like functionality under windows). Doesn't >currently include procmail, but that appears to be coming "soon." > go to sources.redhat.com and install cygwin you'll get mutt, fetchmail etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020227/9fb3823a/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Feb 28 06:57:13 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Wal-Mart "worse than Microsoft" In-Reply-To: <1014612889.12487.52.camel@yafa>; from nassarsa@redconcepts.net on Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:54:43PM -0600 References: <053d32959231822FE7@mail7.mn.rr.com> <001801c1bdb3$d9271f60$1e02a8c0@zippy> <1014612889.12487.52.camel@yafa> Message-ID: <20020228063931.R5596@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:54:43PM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > Apples and Oranges Mr. Browne. > > While industrialization of production is indeed beneficial and needed, > industrialization of services is not. There is a good reason the US > enacted anti-monopolization laws. Lawmakers at the time, and until > recently, percieved a monopoly to be a threat to the welfare of the > general public because it can leverage power in a more concentrated and > organized way than the public. > > If Wal-Mart were Wal-Manufacture and were closing out smaller companies > I would not be as worried since they are only producing materiel, And as > you said, ultimately this was beneficial to society. However, having > only one company be the sole provider of goods and services can be > disastrous to a community, especially if they can use their reserves to > starve out 'mom-and-pops'. Then we are left with only one choice and no > recourse. > I'm not sure about other locations, but I lived in a town of 662 people, within a 10 mile radius we had 2 'wal-mart supercenters' (Auto, Garden, Grocery, Bank, Pharmacy, gas station (that undercut every other place in town by no less than 5 cents/gallon) and the eye vision place, all in the same store) one was in a town of about 10,000 people (Gun Barrel), the other was in the county seat (Athens), a town of about 15,000 people. There were no other large towns within 30-40 miles.. Athens had a Sears, K-Mart, Brookshires, and Winn-Dixie (these last two are large grocery store chains) Gun Barrel had a Brookshires and Winn-Dixie as well, along with a cruddy little dirty store that nobody liked to begin with.. When wal-mart 'upgraded' their regular stores in those towns to the supercenters the only noticable side effects were that the dirty grocery store went out of business (which was likely anyway), and k-mart finally decided they couldn't make money, and shut down their store. On the other hand, Winn-Dixie 'upgraded' their stores to include the same services, including the cheap gas stations, and continued to make money, Brookshires did nothing, and last time I was down there it was still chugging along as well. Personally I was glad to see the K-Mart and dirty grocery store go away, both had very nasty stores, and neither were worth going to. As for the community not being able to leverage their power, you should take a look into what happened in Hutchinson, MN.. Cub came in and decided to buy out a store (Save A Lot?), they built one of their huge stores, crammed it full of all the usual Cub foods products, had a get-rid-of-inventory sale at the store they purchased, and opened the new store. It lasted a month - nobody liked it, they wanted their old store back. Cub had another get-rid-of-inventory sale at the new store, closed it, and re-opened the old store, with the old products. There's now a very large, expensive, and 'like new' building sitting in the middle of hutchinson for lease. > This of course is where Wal-Mart starts to look very much like > Microsoft. [snip] > Having options is always a good thing. Definitely. > > -- > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET - We Build Communities -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From jspinti at dartdist.com Thu Feb 28 07:45:26 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] testing reply-to munging References: <20020227165304.GD8200@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <045101c1c05c$883edd30$47646496@dart71> Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 x 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad C. Walstrom" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:53 AM Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] testing reply-to munging From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Feb 28 09:28:02 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Really Off Topic!!! (involves being outside) Message-ID: Girly-man! ;-) >>> jwickard@litriusgroup.com 02/28/02 08:30PM >>> I'm not playing paintball unless I can use my autococker. From clay at fandre.com Thu Feb 28 09:46:02 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] getting VCR (the program) to work In-Reply-To: <20020228013114.DSYZ2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@there> References: <20020228013114.DSYZ2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@there> Message-ID: <20020228153252.GB6734@fandre.com> Does xawtv work? On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, John Miller wrote: > Invalid input source given. > Available input sources: > v4l1: VIDIOCCAPTURE in ::setCapture > v4l1: ioctl VIDIOCCAPUTRE INv4l1if::~v4l1if > v4l1: Error closing the v4lx device /dev/video: Bad file descriptor in > ::v4lxif > > The command that I entered is: > vcr -c'divx:-) low-motion' -a 'BitRate=900' -t 1m movie.avi > > If I need to give or create a device for vcr what should I look for . > > awxtv does work. > > TIA > > John Miller > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020228/1f8394e9/attachment.pgp From clay at fandre.com Thu Feb 28 09:47:00 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] getting VCR (the program) to work In-Reply-To: <20020228013114.DSYZ2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@there> References: <20020228013114.DSYZ2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@there> Message-ID: <20020228153531.GC6734@fandre.com> Ahhh, probably a typo below. (awxtv = xawtv) I actually have had better success with the streamer app that comes with xawtv. Here's a little shell script I wrote that I call from cron: #!/bin/sh if [ ! $3 ]; then echo "vcrrecord.sh