From jared-linux at mn.rr.com Tue Jan 1 00:10:42 2002 From: jared-linux at mn.rr.com (Jared Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD and CDRW in Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <100949861801@liquidbinary.com> I use Ogle DVD (http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/groups/dvd/), but there are plenty of others out there. Ogle worked on the first try for me so I haven't played with any others yet. Just do a Google search for "Linux DVD" to find some others. Didn't have to do anything special to get DVD working in Mandrake. I use GCombust for CD burning. Depending on which distro you're using, you may need to add "hdd=ide-scsi" (filling in the appropriate drive, of course) to your /etc/lilo.conf. - Jared On Wednesday 26 December 2001 10:49 am, you wrote: > I just received both for Christmas. Any tips for me when I try to get > these setup in Linux? > Are DVD drives supported and is there software out their for them? > What is the best GUI CDRW software for Linux. Does it have the "erase" > CDRW function? > > Thanks for the help in advance! > > > Clinton Hegney > chegney@highstream.net > c_hegney@gelco.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blayer at qwest.net Tue Jan 1 03:08:32 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VESA FB won't work Message-ID: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> I don't get this. I have a box here (ok, it's a Compaq, but we don't need to get into that) that simply refuses to run a vesa_fb console. The onboard video is Cirrus Logic 5436, which is known to be VESA compliant and is know to work with the vesa_fb driver. I've also tried a couple other cards, including an AT Mach64 and S3 ViRGE, none of them will work. At boottime, if I pass 'vga=781' or any other mode, I get 'You have specified an undefined mode number'. None of the VESA modes will work. Behaviour is identical on all cards. I have upgraded to kernel 2.4.17 and it had no effect. The only framebuffer driver enabled is vesa_fb... I also tried the cirrus fb driver, same results. Any one know what is causing this? Is it the BIOS in the Compaq? -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-Microsoft.Windows.XP.- -.suddenly.everything.sucks-. From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Tue Jan 1 11:14:32 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba problem References: Message-ID: <004001c192df$dc9b1d80$47646496@dart> Already added it as user amd$. smbpasswd won't let you add it as a machine unless it is in the linux passwd file. Any other ideas? Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy.A Johnson" To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba problem > Is the machine a user? > > If the machine were named "pickles" you would: > > % adduser pickles$ > > and maybe escape the '$' in 'pickles$' with a > backslash (\) or put the whole thing in single > quotes. > > I think that is all that is needed. Please correct me > if I am wrong, > > Troy > From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jan 1 14:25:20 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] spamassassin - spam checking nirvana In-Reply-To: <1009127684.8309.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Sun, Dec 23, 2001 at 11:14:44AM -0600 References: <1008875263.1663.1.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <20011222044631.GA12026@lemongecko.org> <1009127684.8309.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20011228170408.O11447@real-time.com> > Since all the posts to the list are "new" or should be, this shouldn't > cause a problem since theoretically we should all get the mail at > approximately the same time (barring one of Bob's wicked LKML > injections, or your ISP's mailserver downtime) I like it wicked LKML injections. >8-) Anyways, what happens is mailman takes each incoming message and breaks the subscriber list into 50-user chucks and delivers each chuck to 1 of 10 outgoing sendmail queues. Given the size of the tclug subscribers and how I have sendmail config delivery time can vary greatly. Regardless of wicked injections..... -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jan 1 14:34:44 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: Slight glitch with spamassassin. [Fwd: *****SPAM***** [TCLUG] xwindows problem] In-Reply-To: <20011226224744.Z22432@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 10:47:44PM -0600 References: <1009127884.8308.2.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <20011226224744.Z22432@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20011228170639.P11447@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > Set your RATWARE rule like the above. Hmmm... as more people use this tool, maybe we should add some sort of HOWTO to the tclug web site and the mailing list signup page to help people configure it right? Comments? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From phil at rephil.org Tue Jan 1 16:11:07 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RealAudion and Windows Media Player clones? In-Reply-To: <01123120592400.02528@edith>; from Kelly Black on Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 08:59:24PM -0600 References: <01123120592400.02528@edith> Message-ID: <20020101155846.A5438@rephil.org> On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 08:59:24PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > The BBC has been doing some testing in Ogg format: > > http://support.bbc.co.uk/ogg/ That's great. I didn't see any mention on the page, but it'd be really swell if the BBC were to help out with the testing that needs to be done. They probably have sufficient resources to do it, if they decide to, and it would be a win-win for both sides, because the BBC wouldn't have to license MP3, but also would get a pretty sizable discount on development. The Ogg team, would, of course get the rigorous heavy-lifting they need. Does anyone know if this is part of the BBC's idea, or not? -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From houle at citilink.com Tue Jan 1 16:56:00 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Links Message-ID: I have started a Linux Links page off the Twin Cities PC Users group homepage ( http://www.tcpc.com )f anyone wants to look at some new links. It is small but growing and most are not listed on the TCLUG site. So just a fyi From rob at tatsumaki.org Tue Jan 1 17:34:51 2002 From: rob at tatsumaki.org (Rob Bajorek) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RealAudion and Windows Media Player clones? In-Reply-To: ; from jpschewe@mtu.net on Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 06:48:51PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020101170819.A29511@madoka.tatsumaki.org> There is a version of the new RealOne player for Linux, but it's kind of hard to find. Go to http://proforma.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html and fill in the information. Make sure to choose "Linux 2.x (libc6 i386)" as your OS, _not_ the RPM version either. After you click the Download button, ignore the download choices at the top and look for a button at the bottom that asks if you want to try the alpha RealOne player. The player is a little buggy, but it's more compact than RealPlayer 8 and it has a full screen mode. Rob Jon Schewe (jpschewe@mtu.net) said: > I just went out to the RealAudion site to check for new versions of the player > for Linux. There's a new player out there, but it's only for Windows. So I > got to thinking, are there any RealAudio or Windows Media Player clones out > there for Linux? It's be nice to have another option to listen to streaming > audio with. No, using something like IceCast doesn't help because I want to > listen to sites that are already out there. > From rudie at sihope.com Tue Jan 1 17:45:33 2002 From: rudie at sihope.com (K Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] router stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20011229010610.7b339dad.rudie@sihope.com> On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 06:38:44 -0600 "Leif Hvidsten" wrote: > so I > decided to try SmoothWall which is based on the Linux kernel. So far> I really like it. I have been following the whole smoothwall debacle, and if you are on their mailing list you know what I mean. Yesterday IPCOP, a fork of smoothwall was released. Smoothwall was forked primarily because of smoothwall.co.uk's management practices and possible violations of GPL. For anyone considering smoothwall or the like please check out http://sourceforge.net/projects/ipcop/ instead. Just as easy to set up as smoothwall without the nasty politics. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@sihope.com | rudie@fastcomputers.tv http://fastcomputers.tv "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." - Carl Jung From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jan 1 17:46:12 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: boot loader woes In-Reply-To: <01122801243300.02758@Romana> References: <01122801243300.02758@Romana> Message-ID: <20011229071016.081011776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Friday 28 December 2001 01:24 am, Ben Stallings wrote: > Sigh... please ignore my previous message. All I had to do was install > Windows *before* Linux, and all is well now. It's too bad they didn't put > that in the instructions. Thanks anyway! --Ben > _______________________________________________ Or, if you install Linux first: 1. Make sure you make an Linux emergency boot disk, and then 2. Install Windows 3. Boot from your Linux boot disk, edit /etc/lilo.conf to add the windows partition, and run lilo -r from a console prompt as root. From jacque at fruitioninc.com Tue Jan 1 18:57:20 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting Update Message-ID: Happy New Year and Hello Thirsty LUGies- There will be no beer meeting this week because of the holiday. The next beer meeting will be thursday the 10th. jacque From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Jan 1 20:02:53 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Learning Linux Survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200112300434.fBU4Y5d20581@RedConcepts.NET> My first steps in learning linux were: Sams Learn Linux in 24 hours (RedHat 5.2) i made it through 7 chapters before hosing my system ;-) thats when i decided to take a unix/linux course at MCTC, which proved to be very helpful with the basics. -munir On Friday 28 December 2001 08:25 pm, you wrote: > At the risk of showing my ignorance I probably do not understand most of > what is said on this list. Trying to learn Linux at an entry level I think > is difficult. When I say difficult it is cause I do not have a shoulder to > look over or observe someone else. Most of the admins on here talk in > command line language and I want to start with the GUI. So anyway good or > bad I don't understand most. > So my question is how many people on this list are like myself and maybe I > am the lone ranger. Anyway if you are trying to learn Linux and don't feel > you have a good place or way to do that I would like to know. I am going > to try a very unofficial/unscientific survey to discover a number that may > want/need more help. > > TO NOT BURDEN THE TCLUG LIST PLEASE SEND A REPLY OFF LIST to me at: > houle@yahoo.com indicating you would like more help. > > So I guess the question is: > > > I need other ways and/or help learning Linux? > > > > > If this answer is "Yes" please send a "YES" or "Need Help" to > houle@yahoo.com and I will collect the number and post it. I hope it is > more than one . > > > TIA > > Terry Houle > houle@yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Jan 1 21:09:09 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020101202524.N26419@ringworld.org> * Leif Hvidsten [011231 23:43]: > into the external service access feature. Be sure to check out the Special > Edition ISO that just came out on Dec. 21st. > http://www.smoothwall.org I decided to ignore these people from now on because they have the mindset that the founder put in so much money into making Free Software that people should be nice and never critisize their ways. (phone-home registration, their methods of dealing with some idiot who claimed they were breaking the gpl and then saying all linux geeks are like that and they are better than them, etc) I got sick and tired of it and decided to absoultely not tell people about the project anymore. Oh, for a while one of the updates turned the web-config interface into nagware. It's nice to contribute, but if your basing your business model on something and then bashing the community because they poke at your business model and ways its not worth being nice and promoting their 'product'. I work daily with our Lucent firewall, its got faults, but it still has more flexable firewalling and IPSEC based VPN support. They use FreeSWAN for their IPSEC implementation, and unless they are doing anything special, the only decent way to put stuff out with freeswan is using a PKI/x509 style setup. With someting from Lucent or Cisco, you can use a certificate to ensure that the server is who they say they are and then use RADIUS, which is more deployed and much easier to manage than PKI is yet. (until there is better smart-card-ish stuff *everywhere* and a few other things...) Most of what they are trying to sell to people as a product is freeswan, linux ipchains, squid, snort, and a few other things i cant remember, with a nifty frontend. Their only real IP is the intergration work and the web based frontend. Of course, they want to put this into the hands of businesses that have no idea about their risks, and just want to save some money. Of course, there are VARs out there, but thats going to cost too much for these sorts of users. These are the sorts of users who will put this up, forward their IIS server through it, and then declare their servers 'secure' because they are protected by a firewall. So, the 'hard' part in this buisness is presenting a frontend that doesn't expose the users to anything, and helps them in more than just a firewall, but also somehow notifies and helps them test their exposed machines with them and helps them secure them too. Perhaps a subscription based service to provide the updates, etc. Something a bit more turnkey, and a bit less of mapping files to a configuration interface, but allow experts to dive right in and torque things. Perhaps even remotely if possible as part of a 'managed security' setup. I really like this idea of the helping users test their exposed services though, it can be automated, and the tests that come up true can point a user directly to what they need to do. And if a problem is really bad and the machine detects it (worm propagation, odd behavior, etc.) allow the machine to filter outbound from the hosts being protected. This would be a 'hard' filter to write, methinks. And 'harder' to implement in software and keep any sort of scalabilty and relevant reaction time. Oh well. that was a long rant. Yikes they even use popups on their website now. But yeah, its not 'securing your digital world' its just helping you do the basics of security, and even then you can push a knob the wrong way and not know if your really secure anymore or not. I would put a book refrence here, prefreabely written for somewhat normal computer users and easy enough for allmost anyone on this list to understand that talks about how to evaluate your risks and security policy, but I don't know of a good one offhand. Anyone know of any good network and machine security books? Preferably network ones and more based on the risks and less on what osen are on your network. Thanks. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ ...one of the top CBS reporters here in the Twin Cities, came up to me and said, "Governor." Here was her question: "How do you respond to some people who say you're spending too much time on state security and not enough time on Major League Baseball and the Twins?" -Jesse Ventura, Salon interview 12.17.01 on why he thinks media are jackals and his partial justification for ignoring the 'baseball issue'. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020101/7277c8d2/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jan 1 21:16:49 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with Sparc In-Reply-To: <20011229112400.Y75041-100000@pinnacle.schulte.org>; from shane@shell.schulte.org on Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:26:35AM -0600 References: <20011229112400.Y75041-100000@pinnacle.schulte.org> Message-ID: <20011230190709.B11447@real-time.com> Quoting Shane Kinney (shane@shell.schulte.org): > Hey evreyone, > I have recently obtained a Sparc Station 2, but I don't have a Sun moniter > to hook it up to. If any of you have any Sparc Boxes that you want to sell > as well as Sun Moniters, please let me know. I would gladly by them, > especially if they are working condition. Any monitor will work with a Sparc2. It's the cable you need special. What gfx card is in the sparc2? If I remember right it's a piece of crap. :-) Any reason not to go headless or are you wanting a workstation out of this box? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jan 1 21:50:57 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Masquerading help needed In-Reply-To: <20011230190415.A11447@real-time.com> References: <20011229065619.92DB31776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20011230190415.A11447@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20011231014327.EE8341776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:04 pm, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > I've got three machines on my home network, all of which are connected > > via a hub, which is also connected to the Roadrunner modem. FWIW, I'm > > running Mandrake 8.1 on two of the systems, including my main work > > system, and Windows 2000 on the third. My main system has no trouble > > in picking up an IP address from Roadrunner when booting; my > > daughter's machine is unable to. > > It mandrake a 2.2.x kernel or 2.4.x kernel? > > We (the list) need to know so we can walk you through ipchains (2.2.x) or > iptables (2.4.x). 2.4, specifically "2.4.16-9mdkenterprise". Many thanks. From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Jan 1 22:25:13 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RealAudion and Windows Media Player clones? In-Reply-To: <20020101170819.A29511@madoka.tatsumaki.org> References: <20020101170819.A29511@madoka.tatsumaki.org> Message-ID: Now this is useful information. Thank you. So no one's seen any clones though? That or Windows Media Players? Rob Bajorek writes: > There is a version of the new RealOne player for Linux, but it's kind of hard > to find. Go to http://proforma.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html and fill > in the information. Make sure to choose "Linux 2.x (libc6 i386)" as your OS, > _not_ the RPM version either. After you click the Download button, ignore the > download choices at the top and look for a button at the bottom that asks if you > want to try the alpha RealOne player. > > The player is a little buggy, but it's more compact than RealPlayer 8 and it has > a full screen mode. > > Rob > > Jon Schewe (jpschewe@mtu.net) said: > > > I just went out to the RealAudion site to check for new versions of the player > > for Linux. There's a new player out there, but it's only for Windows. So I > > got to thinking, are there any RealAudio or Windows Media Player clones out > > there for Linux? It's be nice to have another option to listen to streaming > > audio with. No, using something like IceCast doesn't help because I want to > > listen to sites that are already out there. > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From florin at iucha.net Tue Jan 1 22:42:30 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with Sparc In-Reply-To: <200112300505.fBU553v27940@zjod.net>; from sos@zjod.net on Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:05:03PM -0600 References: <20011229112400.Y75041-100000@pinnacle.schulte.org> <200112300505.fBU553v27940@zjod.net> Message-ID: <20011230195938.B30244@iucha.net> On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:05:03PM -0600, Steve Siegfried wrote: > Sun sells a "Sun Interface Converter" (Sun part number 370-2068-01, a.k.a. > "X465A" -- list price $75) that lets you connect a Sparc box to a regular > (PS/2) keyboard & mouse. > More info at: "http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?catid=3948" I have saw a bunch of those at MPC last week. I doubt they were asking $75 for one. The problem with those VGA adapters is that the Solaris terminal code gets confused and it wraps the lines in a weird mode, and some lines are not displayed at all. As the old sparcs are pretty slow, you might not want to run X on them. Just use a serial cable to have a console in case anything goes wrong. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020101/caeb098e/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Tue Jan 1 22:50:21 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Internet Connection In-Reply-To: <68.1912a29d.296020de@aol.com>; from DCsk8r34@aol.com on Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 02:48:46AM -0500 References: <68.1912a29d.296020de@aol.com> Message-ID: <20011230201626.C30244@iucha.net> On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 02:48:46AM -0500, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > Hello, I am using RedHat Linux 7.2 and I am trying to get connected to the > Internet through xwindows using Gnome. When I goto the PPP dialer and click > "connect to the internet" it gives me an error saying "Application "rp3" > (process 1271) has crashed due to a fatal error. (segmentation fault)" is > there a way to fix this problem or another program I can use to connect to > the internet? Any help is greatly appreciated. wvdial. It is a command line application. Also there is a configuration tool, wvdialconf. Read the fine manuals. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020101/65da8c0e/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Tue Jan 1 22:51:46 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] boot loader woes In-Reply-To: <20011230083702.E19907@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 08:37:02AM -0600 References: <01122722554400.02613@Romana> <20011229030241.M11005-100000@tcfreenet.org> <20011230083702.E19907@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20011230201847.D30244@iucha.net> On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 08:37:02AM -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Because of how windows handles the installation, you need to install linux > > AFTER you install windows. The error is from Windows rewriting the boot > > sector. Just another anti-competitive 'feature' of M$. > > You could say the same thing about any OS that installs itself in the boot > sector, and ASSUMES it is the only OS on the planet, > that's why you need to keep rescue disks around, and learn how to > re-run lilo. > > There is no particular order in which you must install OS's on your system, > just make sure you have a boot disk into the OS that has your boot loader > (grub, lilo, Proof, xosl..) Linux after Windows is just more convenient. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020101/d91456a0/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jan 2 00:43:24 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help with Sparc In-Reply-To: <200112300505.fBU553v27940@zjod.net> References: <20011229112400.Y75041-100000@pinnacle.schulte.org> <200112300505.fBU553v27940@zjod.net> Message-ID: <20020102003249.U26419@ringworld.org> * Steve Siegfried [011230 19:20]: > from a Sparc (a male plug shaped roughly like "\00:::::0/", where "\" and "/" > represent the shape of the plug's sides) to a PC-style monitor (as part number Make sure your monitor does composite sync too, if the output of your sparc is only composite sync. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ signature length quota: hard limit hit. From scanman at scanman.mine.nu Wed Jan 2 02:05:19 2002 From: scanman at scanman.mine.nu (ScanMan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD and CDRW in Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1009500563.15630.14.camel@scanman.localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2001-12-26 at 10:49, Clint_L_Hegney@gelco.com wrote: > I just received both for Christmas. Any tips for me when I try to get > these setup in Linux? > Are DVD drives supported and is there software out their for them? > What is the best GUI CDRW software for Linux. Does it have the "erase" > CDRW function? What's yor distro? From peter-clark at tides.com Wed Jan 2 02:07:07 2002 From: peter-clark at tides.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VESA FB won't work In-Reply-To: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <200201011715.g01HFan76250@pimout5-int.prodigy.net> On Friday 28 December 2001 12:33, you wrote: > At boottime, if I pass 'vga=781' or any other mode, I get 'You have > specified an undefined mode number'. None of the VESA modes will work. > Behaviour is identical on all cards. I have upgraded to kernel 2.4.17 and > it had no effect. The only framebuffer driver enabled is vesa_fb... I also > tried the cirrus fb driver, same results. Hmm. I use "vga=0x301"; perhaps you need to pass the number in hex? :Peter From peter-clark at tides.com Wed Jan 2 02:08:19 2002 From: peter-clark at tides.com (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB update In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D293@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D293@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200112290637.fBT6avZ70464@pimout2-int.prodigy.net> On Wednesday 26 December 2001 09:32, Jay Austad wrote: > I have the Soyo Dragon Plus board, and my video, sound, ethernet, and USB > all share IRQ 11, and I have had no problems with it. Is this just on > certain boards that people have trouble? > Well, I didn't have any _visible_ problems until I went into console mode. Why? I don't know. Maybe one day I'll investigate (since it would be Good For Me(TM), I guess). My board, BTW, is a Soyo K7VTA-Pro. So far, it's been pretty good, except for the on-board audio... :Peter From rahrenstorff at yahoo.com Wed Jan 2 02:09:29 2002 From: rahrenstorff at yahoo.com (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Links In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201012338.g01NcOu26922@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Two recommendations: www.linuxlinks.com www.yolinux.com Similar to Linux applications, there are so many web site out there for Linux it's a bit confusing. On Friday 28 December 2001 07:48 pm, you wrote: > I have started a Linux Links page off the Twin Cities PC Users group > homepage ( http://www.tcpc.com )f anyone wants to look at some new links. > It is small but growing and most are not listed on the TCLUG site. > So just a fyi From cris0027 at umn.edu Wed Jan 2 02:10:41 2002 From: cris0027 at umn.edu (cris0027) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall Message-ID: <200112312329.fBVNTOp05016@anteater.software.umn.edu> I've been planning to set up a firewall, and was about to try using Smoothwall. Thanks for pointing out those weak points out before I found them the hard way. Smoothwall is a nice looking product, but I think I'd at least like complete port coverage. There are win-do'hs machines on the other side, and I'd really like to avoid that kind of thing. Can we say, "trojan bait"? I've regretably been out of the Linux fold for a while, so all of my Linux kung-fu has become rather rusty. My old firewall/IP-masq box, while theoretically still operational, is out of date and (at the moment) I can't remember how the heck it was set up in the first place. I've been avidly reading this thread (and archived threads), but I haven't been able to come to any definite conclusions. Can anyone make any glowing recommendations about the security, ease, magical properties, efficiency, and/or mojo of any particular option? Smoothwall was at the top of my list, but now I'm not so sure. Also on the list are FreeSCO and Coyote, but again, I'm at a loss to choose one. Can anyone help guide my re-education? Thanks, --Lawrence Crisp cris0027@tc.umn.edu > From: "James Spinti" > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:19:56 -0600 > The only problem with it is that it runs on kernel 2.2.x, so you don't have > stateful packet handling. And, they say right up front that they simply > pass anything through that is above port 1024, which is of course where all > the trojans hide :( > But, it is a very nice product, aside from that. If they were to go to > 2.4.x, I would use it immediately. > Thanks, > James Spinti > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Herrick" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:21 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall > > Very nice product. It also includes Squid, Snort, and support for a DMZ. > I > > love it! > > Recently, they incorporated ALL fixes (1 through 6) and some additional > > functionality into a "Special Edition" or .99 SE. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "shawn" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 12:16 AM > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall > > > > > > > http://www.smoothwall.org > > > > > > Not a floppy based install. Rather a 25MB iso that is simple to > install. > > I > > > spent days upon days of frustration trying to build a firewall > machine.... > > > Downloaded the iso, burned it to cd at work. Came home, less than 45 > > minutes > > > later I was up and running. Both nics recognized, web interface on the > > internal > > > side. DHCP/DNS capabilites. SSH and VPN too. I'm very impressed at > > this. > > > > > > It's a free product, Linux based under the GNU license. I'm definately > > sending > > > some money into them to help support further development. > > > > > > One happy camper. I have this thing running on my P-166/96MB ram > machine. > > > Scary thing is, it seems that internet connections are faster going > > through this > > > and two 10Mb hubs than it is for direct connection. Either that, or I'm > > still > > > in awe over the simplicity of this install. > > > > > > > > > Shawn From sos at zjod.net Wed Jan 2 02:12:48 2002 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with Sparc In-Reply-To: <20011230195938.B30244@iucha.net> from "Florin Iucha" at Dec 30, 2001 07:59:38 PM Message-ID: <200201020710.g027AIa15975@zjod.net> Florin Iucha wrote: > > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:05:03PM -0600, Steve Siegfried wrote: > > Sun sells a "Sun Interface Converter" (Sun part number 370-2068-01, a.k.a. > > "X465A" -- list price $75) that lets you connect a Sparc box to a regular > > (PS/2) keyboard & mouse. > > More info at: "http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?catid=3D= > 3948" > > I have saw a bunch of those at MPC last week. I doubt they were asking $75 > for one. > > The problem with those VGA adapters is that the Solaris terminal code gets= > =20 > confused and it wraps the lines in a weird mode, and some lines are not=20 > displayed at all. > > As the old sparcs are pretty slow, you might not want to run X on them. > Just use a serial cable to have a console in case anything goes wrong. > > florin > The interface converter I described above (in the "> >" stuff) is NOT a VGA adapter. It's a keyboard/mouse converter with dip switches on the bottom to set the style of keyboard you're using (US AT-101, UK AT-102, German AT-102, or DOS/V). -S From eng at pinenet.com Wed Jan 2 08:37:26 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Learning Linux Survey Message-ID: <01C19358.92E3EAE0.eng@pinenet.com> Good effort. Learning Linux is like "learning" to golf. Mastering Linux is like "mastering" golf. Lots of time. Linux differs from Windows in that one is allowed to master Linux. I wish my wife and kids would "try" to learn Linux. Just like I wish they would "try" to fix their own cars. But, of course, they just want to drive the car and pretend the complexity is not there. I've found myself keeping four females operating four nice cars and four nice Windows boxes. That's basically what systems administrators do, try keep other people happy. Some day I'll find the time to fix my car, play some golf, and begin to master Linux. -----Original Message----- From: Terry Houle [SMTP:houle@citilink.com] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:25 PM To: TCLUG Mail List Subject: [TCLUG] Learning Linux Survey At the risk of showing my ignorance I probably do not understand most of what is said on this list. Trying to learn Linux at an entry level I think is difficult. When I say difficult it is cause I do not have a shoulder to look over or observe someone else. Most of the admins on here talk in command line language and I want to start with the GUI. So anyway good or bad I don't understand most. So my question is how many people on this list are like myself and maybe I am the lone ranger. Anyway if you are trying to learn Linux and don't feel you have a good place or way to do that I would like to know. I am going to try a very unofficial/unscientific survey to discover a number that may want/need more help. TO NOT BURDEN THE TCLUG LIST PLEASE SEND A REPLY OFF LIST to me at: houle@yahoo.com indicating you would like more help. So I guess the question is: I need other ways and/or help learning Linux? If this answer is "Yes" please send a "YES" or "Need Help" to houle@yahoo.com and I will collect the number and post it. I hope it is more than one . TIA Terry Houle houle@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Wed Jan 2 08:43:21 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall References: <200112312329.fBVNTOp05016@anteater.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: <011f01c19398$482ff8a0$47646496@dart> I know that Real-Time was working on a CD-ROM based firewall. It was a little NIC computer based on iptables with secure shell interface. Nate or Bob, are you guys still working on that? Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "cris0027" To: Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall > I've been planning to set up a firewall, and was about to try using > Smoothwall. Thanks for pointing out those weak points out before I found > them the hard way. Smoothwall is a nice looking product, but I think I'd > at least like complete port coverage. There are win-do'hs machines on the > other side, and I'd really like to avoid that kind of thing. Can we say, > "trojan bait"? > > I've regretably been out of the Linux fold for a while, so all of my Linux > kung-fu has become rather rusty. My old firewall/IP-masq box, while > theoretically still operational, is out of date and (at the moment) I can't > remember how the heck it was set up in the first place. I've been avidly > reading this thread (and archived threads), but I haven't been able to come > to any definite conclusions. Can anyone make any glowing recommendations > about the security, ease, magical properties, efficiency, and/or mojo of > any particular option? Smoothwall was at the top of my list, but now I'm > not so sure. Also on the list are FreeSCO and Coyote, but again, I'm at a > loss to choose one. Can anyone help guide my re-education? > > Thanks, > --Lawrence Crisp > cris0027@tc.umn.edu From owens at gradtech.com Wed Jan 2 09:44:36 2002 From: owens at gradtech.com (Dale Owens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba problem In-Reply-To: <00ad01c1920a$4d03afa0$47646496@dart> Message-ID: You may have to change the NT box's domain credentials as it is storing those it used with the old server. Log into the NT box as admin, dump it into a workgroup, reboot, and then rejoin the machine to the domain it then should renegotiate the machine password with the domain controller and be able to join the domain. HTH. Dale Owens owens@gradtech.com -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of James Spinti Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 8:49 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Samba problem Over the weekend my home server died. Both the HD and the network card went at the same time :( Anyway, I took the opportunity to upgrade the system to 32 MB of EDO RAM (ransacked from other machines) and install RH 7.2. I had a backup :) of the Samba config file, dropped it in, added all the users back in, copied the data files back, etc. Everything is fine, except for the NT workstation. I added the machine using smbpasswd -a -m, it shows up nicely in the smbpasswd file, just like it should. But, when I try to log on from the NT workstation, it says that the machine is not registered with the PDC. I look in the event log, and it says the same thing. When I run NT diagnostics from the Administrative tools menu, it shows the correct machine as the PDC with the correct domain. I remember this happening to me once before, and I was able to fix it. But, now I can't remember what I did. Anybody had this problem before and remember? I think it has something to do with the new hashes in the smbpasswd file not matching the ones on the workstation, but am not sure... Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Jan 2 10:58:18 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] strange NFS behavior In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jon Schewe writes: > I've got two machines running 2.4.17, this has been a problem all through > 2.4.x. I have one machine, workstation, setup to mount directories off of > another machine, disk. I can mount them just fine directly and with autofs. > However over time I get stale NFS filehandles for no apparent reason. Neither > machine was rebooted or lost a network connection. Most recently I reproduced > this behavior by mounting one directory, leaving it for a long time without > much activity, then checking it; everything was ok, so I mounted another > directory and suddenly any files open on the first mount came up with stale > NFS filehandles. So I kill off what has the open filehandles and umount the > directory to clear the stale NFS filehandles. Then I try to mount the > directory again and disk shows the following in the message log until I run > exportfs -ra: > Dec 29 22:49:32 disk rpc.mountd: getfh failed: Operation not permitted > > I've tried NFSv3 on and off and neither seems to help. I'm at wits end here. > Anyone else have ideas? > Some more information on this. I watched my messages log while this happens, here's the excerpt: Jan 2 08:33:35 workstation automount[406]: attempting to mount entry /net/vmware Jan 2 08:33:35 workstation kernel: NFS: NFSv3 not supported. Jan 2 08:33:35 workstation kernel: nfs warning: mount version older than kernel Jan 2 08:33:37 workstation kernel: /dev/vmnet: open called by PID 1992 (vmware) Jan 2 08:33:37 workstation kernel: bridge-eth0: set IFF_PROMISC Jan 2 08:33:37 workstation kernel: /dev/vmnet: port on hub 0 successfully opened Jan 2 08:37:58 workstation automount[406]: attempting to mount entry /net/home Jan 2 08:37:58 workstation kernel: NFS: NFSv3 not supported. Jan 2 08:37:58 workstation kernel: nfs warning: mount version older than kernel At this point /net/vmware gives me a Stale NFS filehandle message. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From Ben at WorksCited.Net Wed Jan 2 10:59:53 2002 From: Ben at WorksCited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] "network is unreachable"? Message-ID: <02010210264000.01718@Romana> I'm having trouble with the routing tables on my PowerBook, which shares a local network with a PC, both running Linux. Here are the symptoms: 1. ifconfig looks fine -- identical on both machines, except for the IP and NIC ID numbers. 2. ppp works fine. 3. The PC can ping the PowerBook, so it is on the network. 4. When the PowerBook is running MacOS, it can ping the PC, so the problem is limited to Linux. 5. When I run route (as root) on the PowerBook, nothing happens. The headers appear, but no entries appear at all, and I have to press ctrl-C to get my prompt back. 6. When I run netcfg (as root) on the PowerBook and try to save any changes, I get the following error on the console: SIOCDELRT: No such process SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable The real kicker is that I don't remember changing anything when this problem began! :-( Yesterday I got it working briefly by logging into KDE as root and running netcfg from there. Then I logged back in as myself and was able to connect to the PC perfectly and transfer some files. Then I dialed in with ppp, and as soon as my local network connections timed out, I was unable to reopen them because the problem had returned. So is ppp to blame? How? What else should I try? --Ben From Ben at WorksCited.Net Wed Jan 2 11:01:21 2002 From: Ben at WorksCited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: "network is unreachable"? Message-ID: <02010210310700.01776@Romana> Ooo, more info. When I dialed in to send my previous message, route started working again. Here's what it shows, reflecting how much pfutzing around I've done to try to get the network working: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 216.160.33.1 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 192.168.0.1 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 default 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 default * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default 216.160.33.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 I'm ignorant enough about this that, although I know there shouldn't be so many entries, I don't know which ones don't belong. Help? Thanks! --Ben From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jan 2 11:03:52 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <20011231144243.F31615@real-time.com> References: <20011229125932.S11447@real-time.com> <20011231144243.F31615@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1009990523.1213.0.camel@minime> On Mon, 2001-12-31 at 14:42, Bob Tanner wrote: > mailman's design is very poor, it stores the archives as 1 huge mbox file. This > design does not lead to a distributed processing model. The bottleneck will > always be the mbox file and the write-exclusive lock to it. Yeah, too bad there's not a filesystem that supports byte-range locking (that I know of) -- Ben Lutgens System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/50b2004e/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 2 11:04:25 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Floppy based firewall Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C0@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dier [mailto:dieman+tclug@ringworld.org] > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:25 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Floppy based firewall > > > * Leif Hvidsten [011231 23:43]: > > into the external service access feature. Be sure to check out the > > Special Edition ISO that just came out on Dec. 21st. > > http://www.smoothwall.org > > I decided to ignore these people from now on because they > have the mindset that the founder put in so much money into > making Free Software that people should be nice and never > critisize their ways. (phone-home registration, their methods > of dealing with some idiot who claimed they were breaking the > gpl and then saying all linux geeks are like that and they > are better than them, etc) I got sick and tired of it and > decided to absoultely not tell people about the project anymore. I'm annoyed with them also. I run it at home, but I'm going to switch to something else. Awhile back, I went to install it on a machine with SCSI (no IDE at all). They ripped scsi support out of the included kernel. So I downloaded their "SDK". Which consists of like 4 files and really has nothing included. So I joined their IRC channel and asked about SCSI support. They said that SCSI support would only be included with their commercial version due out in a couple of months (it's out now). So I asked how to recompile using their SDK so I could add SCSI support to mine, and they wouldn't talk to me anymore. These guys are a bunch of bastards. Their modified source isn't available, and they really could care less about their "free" version now that they have something to sell. If you're looking for a similar product, but better, check out Mandrake's SNF. The new version with kernel 2.4 will be out soon. (smoothwall is still kernel 2.2) Jay From gabe at msi.umn.edu Wed Jan 2 12:29:47 2002 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] "network is unreachable"? In-Reply-To: <02010210264000.01718@Romana>; from Ben@WorksCited.Net on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:26:40AM -0600 References: <02010210264000.01718@Romana> Message-ID: <20020102110508.I27155@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:26:40AM -0600, Ben Stallings wrote: > > SIOCDELRT: No such process > SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable You prolly don't have a route. When you run 'netstat -rn', do you see a default route? If not, run route add default gw HTH, Gabe -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu From PGaffney at zambasolutions.com Wed Jan 2 12:30:33 2002 From: PGaffney at zambasolutions.com (Patrick Gaffney) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Using DHCP and specify my own host name. Message-ID: Hi, Just loaded Red Hat 7.2 on pc at work. Company uses DHCP, when the system boots up it has the host name from the DHCP which is not the host name I want the system to use. How do I set up my system to use the host name I want, not the one from DHCP? Thanks Patrick Gaffney From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 2 12:31:20 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] "network is unreachable"? In-Reply-To: <02010210264000.01718@Romana>; from Ben@WorksCited.Net on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:26:40AM -0600 References: <02010210264000.01718@Romana> Message-ID: <20020102112100.A17723@iucha.net> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:26:40AM -0600, Ben Stallings wrote: > I'm having trouble with the routing tables on my PowerBook, which shares a > local network with a PC, both running Linux. Here are the symptoms: > > 1. ifconfig looks fine -- identical on both machines, except for the IP and > NIC ID numbers. > 2. ppp works fine. > 3. The PC can ping the PowerBook, so it is on the network. > 4. When the PowerBook is running MacOS, it can ping the PC, so the problem is > limited to Linux. > 5. When I run route (as root) on the PowerBook, nothing happens. The headers > appear, but no entries appear at all, and I have to press ctrl-C to get my > prompt back. > 6. When I run netcfg (as root) on the PowerBook and try to save any changes, > I get the following error on the console: > > SIOCDELRT: No such process > SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable > > The real kicker is that I don't remember changing anything when this problem > began! :-( > > Yesterday I got it working briefly by logging into KDE as root and running > netcfg from there. Then I logged back in as myself and was able to connect > to the PC perfectly and transfer some files. Then I dialed in with ppp, and > as soon as my local network connections timed out, I was unable to reopen > them because the problem had returned. > > So is ppp to blame? How? What else should I try? --Ben Most likely the if-up scripts for ppp will reconfigure the network: - dns - default route (to go through ppp) Try rebooting the problem machine and run /sbin/route -n and post the result back. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/665afa3a/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 2 12:32:19 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: "network is unreachable"? In-Reply-To: <02010210310700.01776@Romana>; from Ben@WorksCited.Net on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:31:07AM -0600 References: <02010210310700.01776@Romana> Message-ID: <20020102112729.B17723@iucha.net> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:31:07AM -0600, Ben Stallings wrote: > Ooo, more info. When I dialed in to send my previous message, route started > working again. More likely it is now able to fail quickly when trying to resolve the ip's. What's in your /etc/resolf.conf immediately after reset and after dialing out? > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface > 216.160.33.1 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 > 192.168.0.1 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 eth0 > default 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This line is also weird. Are you telling this box that the default gateway it's itself? That's wrong. The default gateway is used to send the packets to networks this computer doesn't know about. You should try to remove that line from the configs in /etc/network.... > default * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 > 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 > 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo > default 216.160.33.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 > > I'm ignorant enough about this that, although I know there shouldn't be so > many entries, I don't know which ones don't belong. Help? Thanks! --Ben Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/3202ce1b/attachment.pgp From Ben at WorksCited.Net Wed Jan 2 12:37:51 2002 From: Ben at WorksCited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: "network is unreachable"? In-Reply-To: <02010210310700.01776@Romana> References: <02010210310700.01776@Romana> Message-ID: <02010212190801.00894@Romana> After some experimentation, I found I can get routing working again - temporarily - by following these steps: run netcfg as root Click the Interfaces tab Select the eth0 interface and Edit it Change my IP number Click Save At this point the route command works again, and I can ping the other machine over the network. However, my IP address has NOT YET CHANGED. So something about the act of changing the IP address in netcfg has fixed the problem, even though the change has not yet taken effect. I still can't make other changes in netcfg; for instance, if I try to change my host domain (which is incorrect), I get the following error: SIOCDELRT: No such process SIOCADDRT: No such device Using ppp does not make the problem come back, but rebooting the computer (and thus finalizing the change to my IP address) does. Ideas? --Ben From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 2 13:33:16 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <1009990523.1213.0.camel@minime>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:55:22AM -0600 References: <20011229125932.S11447@real-time.com> <20011231144243.F31615@real-time.com> <1009990523.1213.0.camel@minime> Message-ID: <20020102123029.K31615@real-time.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > > design does not lead to a distributed processing model. The bottleneck will > > always be the mbox file and the write-exclusive lock to it. > > Yeah, too bad there's not a filesystem that supports byte-range locking > (that I know of) A better solution, IMHO, would be to strip the archiving part of mailman out and make it a seperate process. Thus, you'd be able to distribute the receiving/delivery and archiving/web processes. The hard "hit" on the list server is appending files to the huge mbox files. But the next hardest "hit" is all the search engines spidering the archives. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed Jan 2 13:35:59 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: <200201021829.g02ITD514344@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200201021829.g02ITD514344@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <15411.21429.943109.400800@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I've used Coyote and been pretty happy with it; this for protecting a DSL connected net. There's also gibraltar. That looked nifty, but when it came out, it defaulted to the German keyboard layout and was a pain to change; hence I used coyote. Also coyote had the advantage of not writing to my hard drive --- it just used the floppy. That let me keep my firewall as a Win95 machine to use if I ever had to have Qwest come out (since they don't support linux). R From jstreit at northlans.com Wed Jan 2 13:41:38 2002 From: jstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall Message-ID: <200201020647.g026lc705277@linuxserver.northlans.com> I have just recently install Smoothwall also. I saw it mentioned on this list. Anyway, I have it running on a 486 with 40 megs of ram. Everything has been working fine, and I found it really easy to install. My 486 won't boot from the CD-ROM iso image, but they have a windows "rawrite" program that is really easy to use to create a floppy boot disk. Has any who is using Smoothwall ever done a site to site VPN with the built in features? Just curious. Jim > Funny you should mention this firewall...I just mentioned it only in a few > posts before you! I've got it running on a P-166/64MB RAM though it > supposedly does run fine even on a 486. I really like the web interface and > SSHing into it from work and checking the IDS logs, firewall logs, and > traffic graphs. To access it from outside just enter the IP address:port > into the external service access feature. Be sure to check out the Special > Edition ISO that just came out on Dec. 21st. > > http://www.smoothwall.org > > --Leif > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From leif at mn.rr.com Wed Jan 2 13:42:01 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The only problem with it is that it runs on kernel 2.2.x, so you don't have >stateful packet handling. And, they say right up front that they simply >pass anything through that is above port 1024, which is of course where all >the trojans hide :( Thanks for the info...I wasn't aware of this. Could you tell me where they say this "up front"? I seem to have missed it...thanks! I'm guessing, then, that BBIagent wouldn't have this vulnerability since it's based on the 2.4 kernel? Leif Hvidsten PGP ID: 0x3626E2CD Key Fingerprint: 21C2 286E 8FAF 25D1 9356 923A 0D05 6DE8 3626 E2CD From sos at zjod.net Wed Jan 2 15:05:43 2002 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <20020102123029.K31615@real-time.com> from "Bob Tanner" at Jan 02, 2002 12:30:29 PM Message-ID: <200201021949.g02JnmG12686@zjod.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > > > design does not lead to a distributed processing model. The bottleneck will > > > always be the mbox file and the write-exclusive lock to it. > > > > Yeah, too bad there's not a filesystem that supports byte-range locking > > (that I know of) > > A better solution, IMHO, would be to strip the archiving part of mailman out and > make it a seperate process. Thus, you'd be able to distribute the > receiving/delivery and archiving/web processes. > > The hard "hit" on the list server is appending files to the huge mbox files. But > the next hardest "hit" is all the search engines spidering the archives. > Maybe search engine spiders ought to be limited to the middle of the night? Given the P.I.T.A. factor associated with maintaining a fast, working mailing list, "choice B" might be to examine a Mn.tclug usenet newsgroup... From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 2 15:07:29 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C5@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> What filesystem are you using? If you're on ext2, once you hit a 2GB size on your mbox file, mailman is probably going to choke. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@real-time.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:30 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Slow list > > > Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > > > design does not lead to a distributed processing model. The > > > bottleneck will always be the mbox file and the > write-exclusive lock > > > to it. > > > > Yeah, too bad there's not a filesystem that supports byte-range > > locking (that I know of) > > A better solution, IMHO, would be to strip the archiving part > of mailman out and make it a seperate process. Thus, you'd be > able to distribute the receiving/delivery and archiving/web processes. > > The hard "hit" on the list server is appending files to the > huge mbox files. But the next hardest "hit" is all the search > engines spidering the archives. > > > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 2 15:09:11 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C6@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Has any who is using Smoothwall ever done a site to site VPN with the > built in features? Just curious. Yes, I've used it. It works OK. But linux IPsec kind of sucks because if you lose your VPN connection, you sometimes have to restart the ipsec stuff manually on each box. The FreeBSD ipsec stuff I've been using lately doesn't seem to suffer from this at all. Jay From robertl at ccbr.umn.edu Wed Jan 2 15:09:37 2002 From: robertl at ccbr.umn.edu (Robert Leduc) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome Desktop Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all I have a couple of straightforward questions on configuring the gnome desktop under RedHat 7.2. 1. I have a .bmp file I'm using as wallpaper on my gnome desktop and would like to use the "embossed logo" option under the gnome control center because it looks cool. I'm using gnome with the sawmill window manager and letting the nautilus file manager draw the home and trash icons on the desktop. Unfortunately, the original graphic is getting written over the top of the embossed logo. I see the embossed logo as the sawmill splash screen disappears after logging in, but then the original graphic seems to overwrite it. Anyone seen this? Do you just have to live without embossed logo wallpaper if you're using nautilus to draw the desktop icons? 2. I've downloaded a couple of themes I'd like to install. The RedHat "getting started" guide says that I can open the theme manager from the control center and click on "install new theme" to install them; the new theme should then appear in the theme list. I do this and nothing happens. Do I have to be root or something? Thanks for any help you can give. Rob From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 2 15:11:06 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: ; from Leif Hvidsten on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 07:54:30AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020102140954.A14530@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 07:54:30AM -0600, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > >The only problem with it is that it runs on kernel 2.2.x, so you don't have > >stateful packet handling. And, they say right up front that they simply > >pass anything through that is above port 1024, which is of course where all > >the trojans hide :( > > > Thanks for the info...I wasn't aware of this. Could you tell me where they > say this "up front"? I seem to have missed it...thanks! I'm guessing, > then, that BBIagent wouldn't have this vulnerability since it's based on the > 2.4 kernel? Sorry, but if you do a 'ipchains -P forward DENY' before you set up any further ipchains or ipmasqadm portfw rules, I don't see that this is any sort of problem. I thought that blocked all forwarding, period, end of paragraph. Either there is no reason for them not to have included it, or I am living with a false sense of security. Can someone enlighten me? Thanks, Phil -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 2 15:12:27 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: "network is unreachable"? In-Reply-To: <02010212190801.00894@Romana>; from Ben@WorksCited.Net on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:19:08PM -0600 References: <02010210310700.01776@Romana> <02010212190801.00894@Romana> Message-ID: <20020102142504.C17723@iucha.net> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:19:08PM -0600, Ben Stallings wrote: > After some experimentation, I found I can get routing working > again - temporarily - by following these steps: > > run netcfg as root > Click the Interfaces tab > Select the eth0 interface and Edit it > Change my IP number > Click Save > > At this point the route command works again, and I can ping the other machine > over the network. However, my IP address has NOT YET CHANGED. So something > about the act of changing the IP address in netcfg has fixed the problem, > even though the change has not yet taken effect. > > Ideas? --Ben Yes, netcfg updates the rounting as well. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/cfde36ef/attachment.pgp From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 2 15:14:28 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: <15411.21429.943109.400800@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com>; from Robert P. Goldman on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:38:45PM -0600 References: <200201021829.g02ITD514344@sprite.real-time.com> <15411.21429.943109.400800@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020102142719.C14530@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:38:45PM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > > I've used Coyote and been pretty happy with it; this for protecting > a DSL connected net. I'll second that, but I was just following Timothy Wilson's lead. Coyote was very easy to set up, once I got my NIC's to play nice. The neat thing was using Donald Becker's (www.scyld.com) ***Linux*** hardware config tools to set I/O addresses and IRQ's on old ISA cards. Also, Josh (insert last name) is committed enough to it enough that he has set up a server room in the basement of his house and moved hardware there. There is a nice set of pix about the move at www.coyotelinux.com. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From wilson at visi.com Wed Jan 2 16:17:55 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Timothy Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C5@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > What filesystem are you using? If you're on ext2, once you hit a 2GB size > on your mbox file, mailman is probably going to choke. I suppose that might depend on whether Python has been built with large file support. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jan 2 16:19:29 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ext3? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Yaron wrote: > Ok, this is weird. I thought ext3 and ex2 were interchangable, so all > you'd need to do to swich was compile a kernel with ext3 support, and then > mount an ext2 partition as ext3. All the docs I read seem to indicate > that. > > However, when I try moounting an ext2 partition with -t ext3, I get: > > mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hda5, > or too many mounted file systems > > > Can still mount it as ext2. This is on a debian/unstable with 2.4.17. > Anyone? Need to enable journaling on it -- can't remember the command offhand, but check the ext3 howto. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jan 2 16:22:29 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome Desktop Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: | 2. I've downloaded a couple of themes I'd like to install. The | RedHat "getting started" guide says that I can open the theme | manager from the control center and click on "install new theme" | to install them; the new theme should then appear in the theme | list. I do this and nothing happens. Do I have to be root or | something? Depends on what the theme is for. Sawfish themes should go in ~/.sawfish/themes. GTK theme's go in ~/.themes. So something like: cd ~/.themes tar xvfz ../nifty-gtk-theme.tar.gz Should extrat the new theme to ~/.themes/nifty-gtk-theme Close gnomecc and run it again and it should show up. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "I MIGHT be DANGEROUS!" --The Tick From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Wed Jan 2 17:30:52 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall References: <20020102140954.A14530@rephil.org> Message-ID: <01b901c193dc$42038660$47646496@dart> I did not mean to imply that the reason anything above 1024 wasn't blocked was because of the 2.2.x kernel. It is a choice they made, it is in the configuration documentation, I don't have that in front of me here at work. The advantage of the 2.4 kernel is the stateful packet inspection. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall > On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 07:54:30AM -0600, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > > >The only problem with it is that it runs on kernel 2.2.x, so you don't have > > >stateful packet handling. And, they say right up front that they simply > > >pass anything through that is above port 1024, which is of course where all > > >the trojans hide :( > > > > > > Thanks for the info...I wasn't aware of this. Could you tell me where they > > say this "up front"? I seem to have missed it...thanks! I'm guessing, > > then, that BBIagent wouldn't have this vulnerability since it's based on the > > 2.4 kernel? > > Sorry, but if you do a 'ipchains -P forward DENY' before you set up > any further ipchains or ipmasqadm portfw rules, I don't see that this > is any sort of problem. I thought that blocked all forwarding, > period, end of paragraph. > > Either there is no reason for them not to have included it, or I am > living with a false sense of security. Can someone enlighten me? > > Thanks, > Phil From bradyh at bitstream.net Wed Jan 2 17:36:06 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome Desktop Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010011280.10659.71.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> 1. You may be running into a conflict between gmc and Nautilus here. Try shutting down gmc by selecting "Commands/Exit". If you want to use gmc (I know I do) start up gmc using the command "gmc --nodesktop". 2. Like Andy said. Brady > Hi all > > I have a couple of straightforward questions on configuring the > gnome desktop under RedHat 7.2. > > 1. I have a .bmp file I'm using as wallpaper on my gnome desktop > and would like to use the "embossed logo" option under the gnome > control center because it looks cool. I'm using gnome with the > sawmill window manager and letting the nautilus file manager draw > the home and trash icons on the desktop. > > Unfortunately, the original graphic is getting written over the > top of the embossed logo. I see the embossed logo as the sawmill > splash screen disappears after logging in, but then the original > graphic seems to overwrite it. > > Anyone seen this? Do you just have to live without embossed logo > wallpaper if you're using nautilus to draw the desktop icons? > > > 2. I've downloaded a couple of themes I'd like to install. The > RedHat "getting started" guide says that I can open the theme > manager from the control center and click on "install new theme" > to install them; the new theme should then appear in the theme > list. I do this and nothing happens. Do I have to be root or > something? > > Thanks for any help you can give. > > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Ben at WorksCited.Net Wed Jan 2 17:37:30 2002 From: Ben at WorksCited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] "network is unreachable"? In-Reply-To: <20020102110508.I27155@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> References: <02010210264000.01718@Romana> <20020102110508.I27155@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> Message-ID: <02010216440600.00703@Romana> Thanks for your feedback, Gabe and Florin. Unfortunately the fix I posted about earlier is no longer working, for reasons I don't understand, so . Here's the info you requested: On Wednesday 02 January 2002 11:05, Gabe wrote: > You prolly don't have a route. When you run 'netstat -rn', do you see a > default route? And Florin likewise wrote: >Try rebooting the problem machine and run /sbin/route -n and post the result >back. After a reboot, here's what I get from both commands: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 192.168.0.0 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 I take this to mean that eth0 is the default route. (How can I get rid of that first entry?) When I connect with PPP, the table changes to this: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 216.160.33.1 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 192.168.0.0 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 216.160.33.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 Florin continued, >What's in your /etc/resolf.conf immediately after reset and after dialing >out? Assuming you mean /etc/resolv.conf, it lists the domain name of the ISP I no longer use ("search tcfreeisp.net") and then a dozen or so nameservers I've collected, and then "options rotate timeout:15". Should I manually edit this file to search my new ISP's domain? Should there be something else in this file that's not there? Does resolv.conf even come into play when I'm typing in IP numbers instead of domain names? When I'm using PPP, resolv.conf has an additional (temp) search entry with my actual ISP's domain name, plus five more nameservers. Florin proceeded to ask incredulously, >Are you telling this box that the default gateway >it's itself? That's wrong. The default gateway is used to send the packets to >networks this computer doesn't know about. No, 192.168.0.1 is the other box, which I hope to use as a gateway once I can reach it reliably. The box with the problems is .42 or .43, depending on which I last changed it to in my tinkering. Florin recommends: >You should try to remove that line from the configs in /etc/network.... I have no /etc/network, so my configs must be elsewhere. What am I looking for? Thanks again! --Ben From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Wed Jan 2 18:34:44 2002 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] "network is unreachable"? Message-ID: <020102174411.23605567@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Hi Simple minded approach -- I'm sure others will have better. On the machine that's having the problem (when it's having it), execute from the command line: route add default The only time I've ever seen this is when I had that messed up, but I've never used ppp either. If that clears it up, a little local customization is called for. If not, hope there's other, better answers in the offing. GL! Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jan 2 18:54:08 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VESA FB won't work In-Reply-To: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20020102181435.67ac42dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Bill Layer" wrote: > > I don't get this. I have a box here (ok, it's a Compaq, but we don't need > to get into that) that simply refuses to run a vesa_fb console. The > onboard video is Cirrus Logic 5436, which is known to be VESA compliant > and is know to work with the vesa_fb driver. I've also tried a couple > other cards, including an AT Mach64 and S3 ViRGE, none of them will work. I don't know about the other cards, but the S3 ViRGE card I had only supported VESA 1.2, while VESA 2.0 support is required if you want to use the kernel framebuffer. (or maybe it was 1.0/1.2.. I forget) If you really want things to work, you can boot DOS first, load a VESA driver for the card, and then use loadlin to boot Linux, and have it work. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ It's a small world, but I / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ wouldn't want to have to \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) paint it. [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/30a397dc/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jan 2 18:56:46 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C5@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C5@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020102181818.04e83512.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Austad, Jay" wrote: > > What filesystem are you using? If you're on ext2, once you hit a 2GB size > on your mbox file, mailman is probably going to choke. You can have large files on ext2, but you need to have a 2.4 kernel, or a 2.2 kernel with appropriate patches. Also required is a C library with large file support, and the program has to be compiled to use it.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Why are they called / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ apartments, when they're \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) all stuck together? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/d451b510/attachment.pgp From jamie at getsetnet.net Wed Jan 2 21:45:44 2002 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script Message-ID: I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big deal, you'd just do cp filename /home/$1 but what throws a monkey wrench into the works is that there are several different home partitions some users are in home, others in home1,home2,home3, etc. and the following doesn't work: cp filename ~${1}/ because it interprets the ~ as a character rather than an operator. Anyone have any ideas how I can get around this? Everytime I try to run? Seems you can't combine the ~ with a variable. -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From robertl at ccbr.umn.edu Wed Jan 2 22:52:21 2002 From: robertl at ccbr.umn.edu (Robert Leduc) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome Desktop Questions In-Reply-To: <1010011280.10659.71.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Brady and Andy for the help with themes. I had missed the distinction between gtk themes and sawfish themes. The gnome configuration tool I was using assumed they were gtk themes and installed them in ~/.themes, but they needed to be in ~/.sawfish/themes. It really is the .sawfish theme I'm trying to change; I have this problem that right clicking in the button on the top left side of the window kills it at home, but opens the pull down menu at work and vice-versa for left clicking... Guess I'll just live with the defaults which aren't too painful. Still working on the embossed logo problem.... Thanks again, Rob On 2 Jan 2002, Brady Hegberg wrote: > 1. You may be running into a conflict between gmc and Nautilus here. > Try shutting down gmc by selecting "Commands/Exit". If you want to use > gmc (I know I do) start up gmc using the command "gmc --nodesktop". > > 2. Like Andy said. > > Brady > > > Hi all > > > > I have a couple of straightforward questions on configuring the > > gnome desktop under RedHat 7.2. > > > > 1. I have a .bmp file I'm using as wallpaper on my gnome desktop > > and would like to use the "embossed logo" option under the gnome > > control center because it looks cool. I'm using gnome with the > > sawmill window manager and letting the nautilus file manager draw > > the home and trash icons on the desktop. > > > > Unfortunately, the original graphic is getting written over the > > top of the embossed logo. I see the embossed logo as the sawmill > > splash screen disappears after logging in, but then the original > > graphic seems to overwrite it. > > > > Anyone seen this? Do you just have to live without embossed logo > > wallpaper if you're using nautilus to draw the desktop icons? > > > > > > 2. I've downloaded a couple of themes I'd like to install. The > > RedHat "getting started" guide says that I can open the theme > > manager from the control center and click on "install new theme" > > to install them; the new theme should then appear in the theme > > list. I do this and nothing happens. Do I have to be root or > > something? > > > > Thanks for any help you can give. > > > > Rob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Jan 2 22:55:16 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: cp filename ${HOME}/${1} Jamie Ostrowski writes: > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big > deal, you'd just do > > cp filename /home/$1 > > but what throws a monkey wrench into the works is that there are > several different home partitions some users are in home, others in > home1,home2,home3, etc. and the following doesn't work: > > cp filename ~${1}/ > > because it interprets the ~ as a character rather than an operator. > > Anyone have any ideas how I can get around this? Everytime I try to > run? Seems you can't combine the ~ with a variable. > > > > -- > > "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Wed Jan 2 22:56:33 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: ; from jamie@getsetnet.net on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 08:34:25PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020102223144.A18274@trammell.dyndns.org> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 08:34:25PM -0600, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big > deal, you'd just do > > cp filename /home/$1 > > but what throws a monkey wrench into the works is that there are > several different home partitions some users are in home, others in > home1,home2,home3, etc. and the following doesn't work: > > cp filename ~${1}/ > > because it interprets the ~ as a character rather than an operator. > > Anyone have any ideas how I can get around this? Everytime I try to > run? Seems you can't combine the ~ with a variable. > One possible (ugly) solution: [ ~ ] perl -le 'print +(getpwnam("trammell"))[7]' /home/trammell [ ~ ] so could something like cp filename `perl -e "print +(getpwnam('$1'))[7]"` be made to work? -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020102/f9779ee1/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jan 2 23:52:55 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: ; from jpschewe@mtu.net on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:31:52PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020102232719.A14825@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 10:31:52PM -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > cp filename ${HOME}/${1} Reread what Jamie's trying to accomplish. He wants `myscript user` to copy the file to ~user, not ~/user. > Jamie Ostrowski writes: > > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > > directory. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From robertl at ccbr.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 01:35:07 2002 From: robertl at ccbr.umn.edu (Robert Leduc) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gnome Desktop Questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Robert Leduc wrote: > Still working on the embossed logo problem.... I've confirmed this is a bug in nautilus; it's in the bugzilla on the gnome website. Obviously not the highest priority bug to deal with, so I guess I'll live without the embossed logo. Rob From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jan 3 01:38:47 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: <200201020647.g026lc705277@linuxserver.northlans.com>; from jstreit@northlans.com on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:47:38AM -0600 References: <200201020647.g026lc705277@linuxserver.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020103010252.U27903@real-time.com> Quoting Jim Streit (jstreit@northlans.com): > I have just recently install Smoothwall also. I saw it mentioned on > this list. Anyway, I have it running on a 486 with 40 megs of ram. > Everything has been working fine, and I found it really easy to > install. My 486 won't boot from the CD-ROM iso image, but they have a > windows "rawrite" program that is really easy to use to create a floppy > boot disk. I think it was mentioned here, but since this threads has been going awhile I do a cheap plug. :-) Real Time has a firewall solution that is works on a ThinkNIC, which is is 99% CDROM based with the last 1% of the config stored in NVRAM (so you can change ipchains rules, etc). Works pretty slick. It based off of RedHat 6.2, kernel 2.2, ipchains, etc. I am very confident in it's functionality and security, since I used one at all of Viking's home game to connected the front-office people to the game day network (via a wireless lan no less). While the Vikings sucked this year, our ThinkNIC firewall worked like a charm. For security, the NFL IS department gave it it's blessing. I'm pretty sure minor changes to the ISO is all that would be needed to get it to work on some other exotic hardware. :-) -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jan 3 01:40:03 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Slow list In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C5@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 01:54:19PM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2C5@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020103010520.V27903@real-time.com> Quoting Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com): > What filesystem are you using? If you're on ext2, once you hit a 2GB size > on your mbox file, mailman is probably going to choke. ext3 and we talked about the 2Gb limit along time ago :-) -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Thu Jan 3 07:37:42 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [OT] Nitpicking was Re: [TCLUG] Linux Partitions In-Reply-To: <3BDF60AB.7060501@haxxed.mine.nu>; from seg@haxxed.mine.nu on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 08:23:39PM -0600 References: <20011030200328.C24642@beaver.iucha.org> <3BDF60AB.7060501@haxxed.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20011031073237.A17381@trammell.dyndns.org> On Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 08:23:39PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Florin Iucha wrote: [snip] > > > > Kids, if you don't want to play, go away. If you thing you can add something > > to the discussion (even an "this is offtopic") please do. Mentioning Hitler > > out of the blue is silly. It works once as a joke, second time as a reminder > > of a joke... but the third -> n time is pointless. > > > > And b) This list is not so deluged with ontopic threads that an offtopic > > discussion does so much harm. Feel free to preview the message and hit "del", > > or be even more fancy and add the title to procmail > /dev/null. > > > > (that sounds good though) > > florin > > > Hitler was also an accomplished artist. > An accomplished artist bit my sister once. -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020103/ae784c8f/attachment.pgp From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Thu Jan 3 08:59:50 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba problem References: Message-ID: <022501c1945b$f70c5580$47646496@dart> That was it. I went into control panel, network, changed the identification of the box to workgroup, did the mandatory reboot. Repeated but rejoined the domain, rebooted again and voila--now it works. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext. 396 952-368-3255 (fax) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Owens" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Samba problem > You may have to change the NT box's domain credentials as it is storing > those it used with the old server. Log into the NT box as admin, dump it > into a workgroup, reboot, and then rejoin the machine to the domain it then > should renegotiate the machine password with the domain controller and be > able to join the domain. HTH. > > Dale Owens > owens@gradtech.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of James Spinti > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 8:49 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Samba problem > > > Over the weekend my home server died. Both the HD and the network card went > at the same time :( > > Anyway, I took the opportunity to upgrade the system to 32 MB of EDO RAM > (ransacked from other machines) and install RH 7.2. I had a backup :) of > the Samba config file, dropped it in, added all the users back in, copied > the data files back, etc. Everything is fine, except for the NT > workstation. I added the machine using smbpasswd -a -m, it shows up nicely > in the smbpasswd file, just like it should. But, when I try to log on from > the NT workstation, it says that the machine is not registered with the PDC. > I look in the event log, and it says the same thing. When I run NT > diagnostics from the Administrative tools menu, it shows the correct machine > as the PDC with the correct domain. > > I remember this happening to me once before, and I was able to fix it. But, > now I can't remember what I did. Anybody had this problem before and > remember? I think it has something to do with the new hashes in the > smbpasswd file not matching the ones on the workstation, but am not sure... > > Thanks, > > James Spinti > jspinti at dartdist dot com > 952-368-3278 ext. 396 > 952-368-3255 (fax) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Mary at DesignerDoors.com Thu Jan 3 09:02:29 2002 From: Mary at DesignerDoors.com (Mary Ayala) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [OT] Nitpicking was Re: [TCLUG] Linux Partitions Message-ID: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E53781E6@DDMAIL> > An accomplished artist bit my sister once. Was she carving her initials on his back with a toothbrush? From petre.scheie at nextelpartners.com Thu Jan 3 09:08:41 2002 From: petre.scheie at nextelpartners.com (Petre Scheie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010067040.3174.24.camel@gromit> How about this: cp filename `grep $1 /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` On Wed, 2002-01-02 at 20:34, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > > > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big > deal, you'd just do > > cp filename /home/$1 > > but what throws a monkey wrench into the works is that there are > several different home partitions some users are in home, others in > home1,home2,home3, etc. and the following doesn't work: > > cp filename ~${1}/ > > because it interprets the ~ as a character rather than an operator. > > Anyone have any ideas how I can get around this? Everytime I try to > run? Seems you can't combine the ~ with a variable. > > > > -- > > "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jts at tc.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 09:10:48 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Floppy based firewall In-Reply-To: <200201021829.g02ITI514349@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: I haven't yet tried Smoothwall myself, but seeing so much buzz about it makes me feel a need to point out some other diskette-based linux firewall options. Here's my $0.02 ... The LEAF project was created to facilitate collaboration between developers of diskette-based linux firewalls. http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ Most (all?) of these diskette-based linux firewalls trace their roots back to the Linux Router Project (LRP). http://www.linuxrouter.org/ The Linux Router Project mailing lists can be very helpful, and its archives are searchable via the web. http://www.linuxrouter.org/archives/ Seattle Firewall is a set of scripts, compatible with LRP, that can help facilitate the setup of ipchains rules for a firewall. http://seawall.sourceforge.net/ On my home firewall, I'm presently using a tweaked version of Eigerstein, with Seawall. Joel (sorry for slow response - I'm subscribed to TCLUG in digest mode) On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 cris0027 wrote: > Can anyone help guide my re-education? From mjn at umn.edu Thu Jan 3 10:05:13 2002 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SFTP and Procmail... Message-ID: Does anyone have any clever ways to make SFTP work when you have procmail enabled and reporting new mail at login? As it stands, `ssh me@hostname.net /usr/bin/true' yields: "No mail arrived since Jan 3 09:10" Which results in a message like this when trying to use SFTP: "Received message too long 1315905645" Is there any way to get around this without changing the new mail notification for procmail? Thanks mucho. -- ____________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com ____________________________ Recursive: Adj. See Recursive. From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu Jan 3 10:09:02 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1809 - 14 msgs In-Reply-To: <200201030552.g035q5525647@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200201030552.g035q5525647@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <15412.31145.689934.482413@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> phil> From: Phil Mendelsohn To: phil> tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Floppy based phil> firewall Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:27:19 -0600 phil> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 12:38:45PM -0600, Robert P. Goldman phil> wrote: >> I've used Coyote and been pretty happy with it; this for >> protecting a DSL connected net. phil> I'll second that, but I was just following Timothy Wilson's phil> lead. phil> Coyote was very easy to set up, once I got my NIC's to play phil> nice. The neat thing was using Donald Becker's phil> (www.scyld.com) ***Linux*** hardware config tools to set I/O phil> addresses and IRQ's on old ISA cards. That *IS* cool. But I managed to get my antique NICs (ISA 3Coms) configured using FreeDOS to fire up the 3Com config software. Not quite as cool, but still pretty neat.... R From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 11:21:11 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020103101029.B27088@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 08:34:25PM -0600, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > > > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big > deal, you'd just do > > cp filename /home/$1 > > but what throws a monkey wrench into the works is that there are > several different home partitions some users are in home, others in > home1,home2,home3, etc. and the following doesn't work: > > cp filename ~${1}/ > > because it interprets the ~ as a character rather than an operator. > > Anyone have any ideas how I can get around this? Everytime I try to > run? Seems you can't combine the ~ with a variable. I assume your trying this in bash as your shell. If you are at all familar with tcsh you might want to use tcsh, since ~ works as expected in tcsh. The following script worked for me. #!/bin/tcsh cp foo ~${1}/ If its a long script and you already know perl, I would use that. If its pretty short, tcsh works ok. Oh, wait I knew there had to be a Bourne way to do it. Try this: #!/bin/sh this_home=`eval echo ~$1/` cp foo $this_home -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,who's next? http://faircopyright.org From estabroo at talkware.net Thu Jan 3 13:03:04 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script References: <1010067040.3174.24.camel@gromit> Message-ID: <3C3498EB.7070802@talkware.net> Petre Scheie wrote: > How about this: > > cp filename `grep $1 /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` might want to add ^ and : to the grep to limit it to usernames `grep ^$1: ...` or cp filename `eval echo ~$1` Eric From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jan 3 13:09:57 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [OT] Nitpicking was Re: [TCLUG] Linux Partitions In-Reply-To: <20011031073237.A17381@trammell.dyndns.org>; from trammell@trammell.dyndns.org on Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 07:32:37AM -0600 References: <20011030200328.C24642@beaver.iucha.org> <3BDF60AB.7060501@haxxed.mine.nu> <20011031073237.A17381@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20020103120238.A20969@sherohman.org> On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 07:32:37AM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > > Hitler was also an accomplished artist. > > > An accomplished artist bit my sister once. Mind you, artist bites can be pretty nasty... -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jan 3 13:13:08 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <20020103101029.B27088@gordo.space.umn.edu> References: <20020103101029.B27088@gordo.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020103181159.383F028ED9@thursday.freeze.com> On Thursday 03 January 2002 10:10 am, you wrote: > I assume your trying this in bash as your shell. If you are at > all familar with tcsh you might want to use tcsh, since ~ works > as expected in tcsh. The following script worked for me. There has been an essay floating around the net about why the c shell is a bad choice for scripting. I read it a while ago, but dont remember where its posted (Im sure a quick google search will turn it up). Does anyone know if tcsh falls into the same pitfalls? Jay From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jan 3 13:16:59 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VESA FB won't work In-Reply-To: <20020102181435.67ac42dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> <20020102181435.67ac42dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020102191019.723a917d.blayer@qwest.net> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:14:35 -0600 "Mike Hicks" wrote: > I don't know about the other cards, but the S3 ViRGE card I had only > supported VESA 1.2, while VESA 2.0 support is required if you want to use> the kernel framebuffer. (or maybe it was 1.0/1.2.. I forget) It must support VESA 2.0.. > If you really want things to work, you can boot DOS first, load a VESA > driver for the card, and then use loadlin to boot Linux, and have it work. Obviously, the DOS driver will cease to exist after DOS dies, so is the point of the driver simply to switch modes? This is an approach that I have not yet tried. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-Microsoft.Windows.XP.- -.suddenly.everything.sucks-. From blayer at qwest.net Thu Jan 3 13:18:24 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VESA FB won't work In-Reply-To: <20020102181435.67ac42dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> <20020102181435.67ac42dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020102202019.20bcb842.blayer@qwest.net> Ok, I figured this out but thought I'd share it with the list. > "Bill Layer" wrote: > > > > I don't get this. I have a box here (ok, it's a Compaq, but we don't need> > to get into that) that simply refuses to run a vesa_fb console. The> > onboard video is Cirrus Logic 5436, which is known to be VESA compliant> > and is know to work with the vesa_fb driver. I've also tried a couple> > other cards, including an AT Mach64 and S3 ViRGE, none of them will work. I was wrong on two points: 1) The onboard Cirrus 5436 does not support VESA 2.0, it is a VESA 1.02 card so the vesa_fb driver is not an option. 2) When using the native Cirrus FB driver, it does NOT accept the same arguments as the other drivers, so the vga = 781 argument I was passing was of no use. Instead, with the Cirrus FB driver, you add an append line to the selected lilo stanza, and use a different syntax: append = "mode:800x600" Now I have FB on my crappy Compaq with it's crappy onboard Cirrus video. Rah! It was worth it for the Tux logo at boottime. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-Microsoft.Windows.XP.- -.suddenly.everything.sucks-. From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Thu Jan 3 13:19:47 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! Message-ID: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Please point a bewildered & befuddled newbie in the right direction I would really appreciate it if someone could "narrow" the field for me here.I have now got my Linux file server working and would like to add a print server to the system. But over the last few days I have read so many different documents on the subject, each with a different opinion, that I have become totally confused. If a person who's 'been there' could just say "You will want CUPS, ghostscript, lpr and Samba" or "You will need GTX and HP imprint and lppdd but NOT lpr or foomatic", it would be a tremendous help. It would be even more wonderful if someone could then say "Rather than searching through the 1200 articles, commentaries and man pages relating to XXX, here is a single good HowTo which, while being neither so deep and comprehensive as to be bewildering, nor so simplistic as to be useless, will get you quickly to a basic functioning system which you can than study, tweak and add to at your leisure, without the acrimony and hostile stares of your family members as they wait to print." Although I'm probably asking too much here (especially if someone were going to try to say it in a single breath) Alternately, if the problem is not me but that what I'm trying to do is actually rather difficult, please tell me and I will go out and buy a $100 print server and end my misery. I already have far too many Linux things to learn without taking weeks to wade through a can of worms (plus, lets not forget those hostile stares! <:^0 ) Here's my setup. Home Network - Cable Router - TCP/IP and (I think) Netbios - WorkGroup (vs. domain) - Linux file server and (hopefully) print server - HP Laserjet 1200SE - Clients are Win98 & Win2000 O/S - Slackware 8.1 (kernel 2.4.5) - Samba 2.2.0a (for file access) - No NFS (turned off) Hardware - AMD K5-PR166 - 256MB - 18GB SCSI - /Home - 15GB IDE (on Maxtor IDE card) HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation - 72mb memory - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) From jima at gimp.damnation.net Thu Jan 3 13:21:17 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103093422.00a51050@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Petre Scheie wrote: > How about this: > > cp filename `grep $1 /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` Yes and no. On a small system, sure. But on a machine with a lot of users, you might get a false positive off of a partial match, or a match from a different field of another user entry. I would recommend: cp filename `grep "^$1:" /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` That forces grep to only look in the first field (the username), and to examine the entire field. Great idea, but potentially a problem. Jima From eric at urbanrage.com Thu Jan 3 13:22:47 2002 From: eric at urbanrage.com (eric) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script References: <1010067040.3174.24.camel@gromit> Message-ID: <3C347BC4.EDC79E34@urbanrage.com> Petre Scheie wrote: > > How about this: > > cp filename `grep $1 /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` you might want to add ^ and : to the grep to limit it to usernames only cp filename `grep ^$1: /etc/passwd | cut -d: -f6` Eric From eric at urbanrage.com Thu Jan 3 13:24:15 2002 From: eric at urbanrage.com (eric) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script References: Message-ID: <3C347D3A.254A9892@urbanrage.com> Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big > > cp filename ~${1}/ cp filename `eval echo ~$1` Eric From Clint_L_Hegney at gelco.com Thu Jan 3 13:25:38 2002 From: Clint_L_Hegney at gelco.com (Clint_L_Hegney@gelco.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD and CDRW in Linux Message-ID: To Scanman: I have RedHat 7.2 Clinton Hegney chegney@highstream.net c_hegney@gelco.com From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jan 3 13:27:06 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Posting from non-subscribed addresses Message-ID: <20020103123241.T3301@real-time.com> Getting alot of posts from addresses from non-subscribed users. Generally these are list members who happen to post from another address for some reason. Lately, I'm getting posts from address where the 'from' is very different the the subscribed address. I'm going to start to bounce these types of messages. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Jan 3 14:19:33 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! In-Reply-To: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> References: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020103193804.D1F721776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> This is one of those things that should be easy, and I'm surprised that it isn't for you. Rather than specify programs, I'd suggest a method: on your Linux machine, browse to https://localhost:10000 . If webmin comes up, you'll have access to a graphics interface that will allow you to do a bunch of configuration things, including printing for a Windows network, which is what it sounds like you're trying to do. If webmin doesn't come up, you don't have it installed or running, and you should probably start by installing it. The other advantage is that webmin allows you to configure a lot of your Linux system, without having to learn the details about all of the various configuration files. No question: you're better off knowing about all the configuration files, and being able to hack them directly, but there's also no question that learning all that takes a lot longer. On Wednesday 02 January 2002 10:12 pm, you wrote: > Please point a bewildered & befuddled newbie in the right direction > > I would really appreciate it if someone could "narrow" the field for me > here.I have now got my Linux file server working and would like to add a > print server to the system. But over the last few days I have read so > many different documents on the subject, each with a different opinion, > that I have become totally confused. > > If a person who's 'been there' could just say "You will want CUPS, > ghostscript, lpr and Samba" or "You will need GTX and HP imprint and > lppdd but NOT lpr or foomatic", it would be a tremendous help. > > It would be even more wonderful if someone could then say "Rather than > searching through the 1200 articles, commentaries and man pages relating > to XXX, here is a single good HowTo which, while being neither so deep > and comprehensive as to be bewildering, nor so simplistic as to be > useless, will get you quickly to a basic functioning system which you > can than study, tweak and add to at your leisure, without the acrimony > and hostile stares of your family members as they wait to print." > Although I'm probably asking too much here (especially if someone were > going to try to say it in a single breath) > > Alternately, if the problem is not me but that what I'm trying to do is > actually rather difficult, please tell me and I will go out and buy a > $100 print server and end my misery. I already have far too many Linux > things to learn without taking weeks to wade through a can of worms > (plus, lets not forget those hostile stares! <:^0 ) > > > Here's my setup. > > Home Network > - Cable Router > - TCP/IP and (I think) Netbios > - WorkGroup (vs. domain) > - Linux file server and (hopefully) print server > - HP Laserjet 1200SE > - Clients are Win98 & Win2000 > > O/S > - Slackware 8.1 (kernel 2.4.5) > - Samba 2.2.0a (for file access) > - No NFS (turned off) > > Hardware > - AMD K5-PR166 > - 256MB > - 18GB SCSI > - /Home - 15GB IDE (on Maxtor IDE card) > > HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) > - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation > - 72mb memory > - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 3 14:23:20 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! In-Reply-To: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> References: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <1010087252.7159.4.camel@minime> On Wed, 2002-01-02 at 22:12, Douglas Mosman wrote: > Please point a bewildered & befuddled newbie in the right direction Gladly, I detest managing printing services so if i can make someone's life a little easier.... > Alternately, if the problem is not me but that what I'm trying to do is > actually rather difficult, please tell me and I will go out and buy a > $100 print server and end my misery. I already have far too many Linux > things to learn without taking weeks to wade through a can of worms > (plus, lets not forget those hostile stares! <:^0 ) the 100.00 jet direct server thing-a-ma-jig is the simplest, they'll let you speak appletalk, netbios, IPP, LPR, and all sorts of stuff to them from your clients. The cheapest setup is to plug it into the linux box's parallel port, make sure there's a raw spool setup as well as a filtered spool. The filtered spool (via magicfilters, or your PPD) is for the linux box(es) to print to. You then configure the samba to "share" the raw spool. Then point the windows machines at that share, and configure your own drivers on that box via the doze printer control panel. That way windows will essentially be speaking directly to the printer which will keep the linux filters from getting all corn-fused. This is really very vague, but it's really all the info you need. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020103/23cd6504/attachment.pgp From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 14:24:32 2002 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script Message-ID: <020103135308.23605567@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Is this what you're talking about: http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/unix-faq/shell/csh-whynot.html While he make some points, misses others, and gets one or two wrong, I sure got the feeling he's more someone who wants to show he knows a whole lot. If you're stumbling over these things, perhaps his is the better tool, but things are nowhere near as bad as he makes it sound. Religious war bait? Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax >There has been an essay floating around the net about why the c shell is a >bad choice for scripting. I read it a while ago, but dont remember where its >posted (Im sure a quick google search will turn it up). Does anyone know if >tcsh falls into the same pitfalls? Jay From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 14:27:15 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <20020103181159.383F028ED9@thursday.freeze.com> References: <20020103101029.B27088@gordo.space.umn.edu> <20020103181159.383F028ED9@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020103133608.A608@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:11:57PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > On Thursday 03 January 2002 10:10 am, you wrote: > > I assume your trying this in bash as your shell. If you are at > > all familar with tcsh you might want to use tcsh, since ~ works > > as expected in tcsh. The following script worked for me. > > There has been an essay floating around the net about why the c shell is a > bad choice for scripting. I read it a while ago, but dont remember where its > posted (Im sure a quick google search will turn it up). Does anyone know if > tcsh falls into the same pitfalls? Yes, I've seen the essay and tcsh as an extension of csh has many of the same problems. I use tcsh as my interactive shell, but for the most part I agree that [t]csh should be avoided for scripts. I have a few simple csh scripts, but for the most part I use straight Bourne shell scripts. I also avoid Bash extensions for shell scripts because the scripts are then less portable (I've got accounts on several systems that don't have Bash) and by the point I get to that kind of complexity Perl is usually a better choice. Anyway, since there is a standard (though ugly) Bourne way to it, tcsh is probably a bad idea. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,who's next? http://faircopyright.org From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jan 3 14:29:10 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Posting from non-subscribed addresses In-Reply-To: <20020103123241.T3301@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:32:41PM -0600 References: <20020103123241.T3301@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020103140012.E3301@real-time.com> Quoting Bob Tanner (tanner@real-time.com): > I'm going to start to bounce these types of messages. Hmm, kind of terse. I'm going to start bouncing them because mailman cannot tell the difference between these posts and posts from real spammers. So, the mail gets queued and I have to manually read each and approve/discard each depending on what I find. There are getting to be too many to read, so as mailing list dictator I can to enforce my laziness on all of you. :-) -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 17:35:42 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VESA FB won't work In-Reply-To: <20020102191019.723a917d.blayer@qwest.net> References: <20011228123317.6ed41fd7.blayer@qwest.net> <20020102181435.67ac42dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> <20020102191019.723a917d.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20020103143714.1ea6b2c3.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Bill Layer" wrote: > > Obviously, the DOS driver will cease to exist after DOS dies, so is the > point of the driver simply to switch modes? This is an approach that I > have not yet tried. Well, it doesn't live long, but it should be long enough for the kernel to initialize the video to the correct mode.. I managed to get it to work once or twice, but VESA video is so slow that it was pointless (other than to see Tux). -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Gravity brings me down. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020103/2579f46a/attachment.pgp From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jan 3 17:39:05 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! In-Reply-To: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: | HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) | - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation | - 72mb memory | - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) Does that mean the printer actually speaks PS? If so, you shouldn't need to do much filtering at all. I used to use LPRng + samba for printing. It worked well enough, but some of the filters were crappy. Every now and then they would barf on some image. (Text was always fine though.) After playing with cups a bit, I really feel that it is the way to go for UNIX printing. I really like that once I got things setup on the server, my unix printing clients just had to have BrowsePoll myprintserver.home.private:631 added to cupsd.conf. And my /etc/printcap (for non cups aware apps) is just: ljet6: Nice and simple. The unix clients can print. :) One of the best parts of cups is the web interface for setting up your printer. Just point your browser to http://printserver:631, login, and off you go. You should be able to setup eveything you need (including the PPD) from here. The cups related stuff I have installed is: cupsys, cupsys-bsd, cupsys-pstoraster, cupsomatic-ppd (cups printer ppd's from LinuxPrinting.org) cupsys-client, libcupsys2 Those are the debian packages. For slackware, everything is prob in one tarball. (except for the ppd's) And for the windows clients, you want to do something like: [global] printcap name = /etc/printcap.cups printer admin = user1 user2 lpq command = lpstat -o%p lprm command = cancel %p-%j queuepause command = disable %p queueresume command = enable %p [printers] comment = All Printers path = /tmp create mask = 0700 printable = Yes browseable = No [ljet6] path = /tmp read only = No create mask = 0700 guest ok = Yes printable = Yes printer name = ljet6 oplocks = No share modes = No [print$] path = /home/samba/print read only = No guest ok = Yes hosts allow = 192.168.1. All the printing howto's really overcomplicate things. :) You can see that I have a print$ share. This took a bit of figuring, but I got samba to share the windows drivers for my printer so Windows 2000 clients will just install the farking driver, and not prompt me about it. It's like, slick. Bottom line: cups very good, lprng is ok, and lpd is, well, it's lpd. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "I MIGHT be DANGEROUS!" --The Tick From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 17:40:36 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SFTP and Procmail... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020103144718.A815@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:20:15AM -0600, mjn wrote: > Does anyone have any clever ways to make SFTP work when you have procmail > enabled and reporting new mail at login? > > As it stands, `ssh me@hostname.net /usr/bin/true' yields: > > "No mail arrived since Jan 3 09:10" > > Which results in a message like this when trying to use SFTP: > > "Received message too long 1315905645" > > Is there any way to get around this without changing the new mail > notification for procmail? What version of ssh do you have? How are you calling the new mail notication program? Sftp works fine for me with mailstat being called from ~/.login (using tcsh) and OpenSSH 3.0.1p1 or SSH 3.1.0. I don't think that I have any ssh config options set that would make any difference. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,who's next? http://faircopyright.org From myok at ogzr.org Thu Jan 3 17:44:25 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Myok) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! References: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <004101c19499$23464740$4165a8c0@here> The problem may be that what you're doing may be more difficult under Slackware than with other Linux distributions that provide GUI tools for this stuff. Haven't used Slackware. However, I've set up print servers using Red Hat Linux and several varieties of Unix. We can reduce the problem to the following steps: (1) Configuring your hardware (2) Configuring a print service so you can print. (3) Configuring Samba so your clients can print. Step One: Hardware. Hook up the parallel cable. Make sure your kernel has parallel port support either built-in or compiled as a module. Step Two: Configure your print service. You have two clients printing to one printer. Let's stick with something simple: lpr. Per the slackware site, you should have this already installed as it's in the base client. If not, get lpr.tgz and install it. You need to create an /etc/printcap entry for your printer. Below is an example of what mine looks like. Important bits are that "lp" is the name of the printer, and "/dev/lp0" is the name of the parallel port device. You may want to change these for your system, and delete the last line starting with "if:" since your clients don't need a filter tool to be able to print. ------ lp:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\ :mx#0:\ :sh:\ :lp=/dev/lp0:\ :if=/var/spool/lpd/lp/filter: ------ Step Three: Configure Samba. You need to do two things: specify what print spooler you're using, and set up your printer. In your smb.conf file, find the line that starts "printing = ". Default value should be fine. Your smb.conf file, unless you edited it, already has an entry for the printers. Here's mine again: # NOTE: If you have a BSD-style print system there is no need to # specifically define each individual printer [printers] comment = All Printers path = /var/spool/samba browseable = no # Set public = yes to allow user 'guest account' to print guest ok = yes printable = yes Stop and start the lpd and smbd processes to make sure your configuration has taken, and try to browse to the printer share from your clients. It should show up as "lp" or whatever you chose to call it. Hope this helps. -- Carl Patten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Mosman" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:12 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! > Please point a bewildered & befuddled newbie in the right direction > > If a person who's 'been there' could just say "You will want CUPS, > ghostscript, lpr and Samba" or "You will need GTX and HP imprint and > lppdd but NOT lpr or foomatic", it would be a tremendous help. > > It would be even more wonderful if someone could then say "Rather than > searching through the 1200 articles, commentaries and man pages relating > to XXX, here is a single good HowTo which, while being neither so deep > and comprehensive as to be bewildering, nor so simplistic as to be > useless, will get you quickly to a basic functioning system which you > can than study, tweak and add to at your leisure, without the acrimony > and hostile stares of your family members as they wait to print." > Although I'm probably asking too much here (especially if someone were > going to try to say it in a single breath) > > Alternately, if the problem is not me but that what I'm trying to do is > actually rather difficult, please tell me and I will go out and buy a > $100 print server and end my misery. I already have far too many Linux > things to learn without taking weeks to wade through a can of worms > (plus, lets not forget those hostile stares! <:^0 ) > > > Here's my setup. > > Home Network > - Cable Router > - TCP/IP and (I think) Netbios > - WorkGroup (vs. domain) > - Linux file server and (hopefully) print server > - HP Laserjet 1200SE > - Clients are Win98 & Win2000 > > O/S > - Slackware 8.1 (kernel 2.4.5) > - Samba 2.2.0a (for file access) > - No NFS (turned off) > > Hardware > - AMD K5-PR166 > - 256MB > - 18GB SCSI > - /Home - 15GB IDE (on Maxtor IDE card) > > HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) > - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation > - 72mb memory > - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 3 17:59:21 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: ; from Jima on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:39:55AM -0600 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103093422.00a51050@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20020103160902.E26871@rephil.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:39:55AM -0600, Jima wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Petre Scheie wrote: > > > How about this: > > > > cp filename `grep $1 /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` > > Yes and no. On a small system, sure. But on a machine with a lot of > users, you might get a false positive off of a partial match, or a match > from a different field of another user entry. And I think on a system using NIS it won't even work at all, since you just get '+::::::' to search for. On that note, I think there would be a way to query NIS for home dir, no? I wonder what it is... ("Yes, I think reading the NFS/NIS book is more interesting right now than what I'm _supposed_ to be doing," he said heading for the bookshelf.) Clearly this is something that is easy to do on one particular system, but difficult to do in the general case of all Unix systems. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From jamie at getsetnet.net Thu Jan 3 18:57:43 2002 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <1010067040.3174.24.camel@gromit> Message-ID: Doesn't really work in this case Petre. We've got a few thousand accounts in there and it takes a long time to parse. We did get it solved today. We ran it this way: eval up=~$2 (took second arg from command line as the username). Thanks to all for the help. - Jamie On 3 Jan 2002, Petre Scheie wrote: > How about this: > > cp filename `grep $1 /etc/passwd |cut -d: -f6` > > On Wed, 2002-01-02 at 20:34, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to write a shell script that takes the first argument > > from the command line as the user to whom a file is placed in their home > > directory. I can't seem to get this to run. Normally, it wouldn't be a big > > deal, you'd just do > > > > cp filename /home/$1 > > > > but what throws a monkey wrench into the works is that there are > > several different home partitions some users are in home, others in > > home1,home2,home3, etc. and the following doesn't work: > > > > cp filename ~${1}/ > > > > because it interprets the ~ as a character rather than an operator. > > > > Anyone have any ideas how I can get around this? Everytime I try to > > run? Seems you can't combine the ~ with a variable. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Jan 3 19:00:58 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Posting from non-subscribed addresses In-Reply-To: <20020103123241.T3301@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:32:41PM -0600 References: <20020103123241.T3301@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020103183310.A13954@wookimus.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:32:41PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Lately, I'm getting posts from address where the 'from' is very different the > the subscribed address. Could you specify a bit more? The "From " header or the "From: " header? I'm sending email from a different server now, and thus a change in the "From " header, but I do edit the "From: " header to match my subscribed email address. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Jan 3 19:48:19 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <20020103160902.E26871@rephil.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103093422.00a51050@mail.bitstream.net> <20020103160902.E26871@rephil.org> Message-ID: <200201040045.g040jKd02524@RedConcepts.NET> > On that note, I think there would be a way to query NIS for home dir, > no? I wonder what it is... Yes there is, instead of using: $cat /etc/passwd | blablabla use: $ypcat passwd | blablabla -munir > ("Yes, I think reading the NFS/NIS book is > more interesting right now than what I'm _supposed_ to be doing," he > said heading for the bookshelf.) > > Clearly this is something that is easy to do on one particular system, > but difficult to do in the general case of all Unix systems. From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jan 3 21:13:36 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <200201040045.g040jKd02524@RedConcepts.NET> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103093422.00a51050@mail.bitstream.net> <20020103160902.E26871@rephil.org> <200201040045.g040jKd02524@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <20020103195447.77fd85a8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Munir Nassar wrote: > > > > On that note, I think there would be a way to query NIS for home dir, > > no? I wonder what it is... > > Yes there is, instead of using: > $cat /etc/passwd | blablabla > use: > $ypcat passwd | blablabla That doesn't include the local system, does it? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ The sixth sheikh's sixth / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ sheep's sick. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020103/2c2c4fee/attachment.pgp From wilson at visi.com Thu Jan 3 21:19:56 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how to list installed .debs Message-ID: Hi everyone, Is there a command or a place to look to get a list of all the .debs I've got installed on my system? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From wilson at visi.com Thu Jan 3 22:49:35 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] understanding standard input Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm trying to scale an image using Imagemagick's 'convert' utility. An example of the sort of conversion I'm trying would be: $ convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 big_foo.jpg small_foo.jpg The Imagemagick man page says this: "Specify input_file as - for standard input, output_file as - for standard output." Can someone provide an example of using standard input and standard output in this context? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Thu Jan 3 22:55:10 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how to list installed .debs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020104034437.GA19092@lemongecko.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:56PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Is there a command or a place to look to get a list of all the .debs > I've got installed on my system? dpkg -l is your friend. On that subject, let me ask a question: how does one list the *entire* package name? Often the name of the package is longer than the field: for instance, I have in my listing ii gnome-libs-dat 1.4.1.2-11 Data for Gnome libraries The name of the package is probably "gnome-libs-data". How can I (or Tim, who is apparently in a package-listing mood tonight) list the full name of a package? Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020103/4a9a72d2/attachment.pgp From DCsk8r34 at aol.com Thu Jan 3 22:59:03 2002 From: DCsk8r34 at aol.com (DCsk8r34@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux Message-ID: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com> Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is possible to listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program would I need. Thanks Alot. -Derek -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020103/b1ef1d04/attachment.html From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Jan 4 00:07:44 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com> References: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <1010121131.15618.277.camel@localhost.localdomain> One of the many programs you can use to play mp3s in Linux is xmms. > Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is possible to > listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program would I need. Thanks Alot. > -Derek -- "Rationality of thought imposes a limit on a person's concept of his relation to the cosmos."- John F. Nash, Jr. From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 00:09:45 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] understanding standard input In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Wilson on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:34:20PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020103233015.A30692@rephil.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:34:20PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to scale an image using Imagemagick's 'convert' utility. An > example of the sort of conversion I'm trying would be: > > $ convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 big_foo.jpg small_foo.jpg > > The Imagemagick man page says this: > > "Specify input_file as - for standard input, output_file as - for > standard output." > > Can someone provide an example of using standard input and standard > output in this context? Without even knowing the answer, I can give the following example: $ convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 big_foo.jpg - | convert - final_foo.jpg Of course it's probably more interesting if more than just convert is involved. I/O redirection -- that's what GUI's lack. CLI all the way, man! ;) Cheers, Phil -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 00:11:47 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how to list installed .debs In-Reply-To: ; from Tim Wilson on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:56:15PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020103233326.B30692@rephil.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:56:15PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Is there a command or a place to look to get a list of all the .debs > I've got installed on my system? dpkg, like Dan said, or if I have a rough idea of what I'm looking for I'll fire up dselect. (Use '/' to search). It's sometimes easier to sort the list by section or by name, depending, and dselect does it quick. HTH, Phil -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jan 4 00:13:43 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com> References: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 22:05, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is possible to > listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program would I need. Thanks Alot. http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/MP3-HOWTO.html keep the url for linuxdoc.org handy..... > -Derek -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020104/0c36a7da/attachment.pgp From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 00:17:58 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics Message-ID: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> Can anyone give me a read on how portable PNG files really are? I figure everyone can read them, but before putting a bunch in a web site, I thought I'd get some feedback. I also read some opinions on the GIMP site that made it sound like they were superior for some reason to .gif or .jpg files. Any opinions here on how? Thx, Phil -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From florin at iucha.net Fri Jan 4 00:20:53 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] understanding standard input In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:34:20PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020103235648.A16122@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:34:20PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to scale an image using Imagemagick's 'convert' utility. An > example of the sort of conversion I'm trying would be: > > $ convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 big_foo.jpg small_foo.jpg > > The Imagemagick man page says this: > > "Specify input_file as - for standard input, output_file as - for > standard output." > > Can someone provide an example of using standard input and standard > output in this context? cat big_foo.jpg | convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 - small_foo.jpg convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 big_foo.jpg > small_foo.jpg and of course cat big_foo.jpg | convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 - - > small_foo.jpg florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020104/a483cd6e/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Fri Jan 4 00:22:25 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com>; from DCsk8r34@aol.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:05:11PM -0500 References: <66.19da3e2d.296683f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020103235718.B16122@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:05:11PM -0500, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is possible to > listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program would I need. Thanks Alot. mpg123, mpg321, xmms... florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020104/aa450b0f/attachment.pgp From dsherman at real-time.com Fri Jan 4 06:09:11 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 30 October 2001 22:21, Bob Tanner shouted from the rooftops, saying: > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. > Although Linux as an operating system is free, the real costs are > related to the computers, and support and maintenance, he said." > > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability > to let the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and > comment? > > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay > for a distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, > stability, reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be > have a better TOC then Win2k. Check these out: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7720536.html?tag=owv http://www.robval.com/linux/desktop/index.asp Dave - -- Diplomacy is to do and say, the nastiest thing in the nicest way. -- Balfour -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE74AIkA68l26XsZUYRAuCuAKCHgSurmyJH+/4Nl3MX71+qcF++ygCgvm0s SPwrVpPACjHaQfadtjkXp4Y= =YkZz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jack at jacku.com Fri Jan 4 07:51:00 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] understanding standard input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02010407093900.01810@geezer> On Thursday 03 January 2002 21:34, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm trying to scale an image using Imagemagick's 'convert' utility. An > example of the sort of conversion I'm trying would be: > > $ convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 big_foo.jpg small_foo.jpg > > The Imagemagick man page says this: > > "Specify input_file as - for standard input, output_file as - for > standard output." > > Can someone provide an example of using standard input and standard > output in this context? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com Try this: $ convert -quality 75 -geometry 128x128 small_foo.jpg -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From MPatchen at chaska.net Fri Jan 4 09:02:08 2002 From: MPatchen at chaska.net (Mike Patchen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd Message-ID: Anyone out there able to tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Trying to setup ISC's DHCPd 2.0pl5 on RedHat 7.0. Setup with just a simple subnet as follows: subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { range 192.168.1.50 192.168.1.70; } When I start dhcpd, I get the following error: Can't bind to dhcp address: Address already in use exiting. The ip address of the machine this is running on is 192.168.1.109, and I have added a route to 255.255.255.255 through eth0 From nate at techie.com Fri Jan 4 09:09:09 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how to list installed .debs In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:56:15PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020104075221.A8886@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:56:15PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Is there a command or a place to look to get a list of all the .debs > I've got installed on my system? dpkg --get-selections This is everything that's installed, removed, or marked so and not done yet. You can you this list to bring a new system up to what you had on another system. Nate From dsherman at real-time.com Fri Jan 4 09:12:43 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics In-Reply-To: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> References: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1010153133.2137.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 23:55, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Can anyone give me a read on how portable PNG files really are? > I figure everyone can read them, but before putting a bunch in a web > site, I thought I'd get some feedback. I also read some opinions on > the GIMP site that made it sound like they were superior for some > reason to .gif or .jpg files. Any opinions here on how? > > Thx, Phil www.libpng.org In a nutshell, png is posed to replace gif, which is owned by Unisys. In 1995, Unisys threatened to sue any commercial website which was using the gif file format and not paying them royalties. I do not know if they ever made good on this threat. Nevertheless, the threat is there. And in reality, png is far superior to gif in many ways. It uses a better compression algorithm, has more features, and is open and free in every way. At the above-mentioned website, you can read all about it, and even check the compatibility of any browser with the png format. Dave -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From florin at iucha.net Fri Jan 4 09:14:57 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics In-Reply-To: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org>; from phil@rephil.org on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:55:02PM -0600 References: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020104080951.C16122@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:55:02PM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Can anyone give me a read on how portable PNG files really are? > I figure everyone can read them, but before putting a bunch in a web > site, I thought I'd get some feedback. I also read some opinions on > the GIMP site that made it sound like they were superior for some > reason to .gif or .jpg files. Any opinions here on how? IE >= 4.0 Netscape >= 6.0 Mozilla Opera They are better than .gif because of the license and better than jpg because they are loseless and have alpha channel. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020104/1bf35db9/attachment.pgp From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Fri Jan 4 09:19:15 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics References: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> Message-ID: <3C35BB2A.14794B62@securecomputing.com> I don't know about technical reasons, but here are some other reasons why png files are better than gifs: http://zgp.org/~dmarti/burnallgifs/ Here's a list of browsers that support PNG: http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapbr.html Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > Can anyone give me a read on how portable PNG files really are? > I figure everyone can read them, but before putting a bunch in a web > site, I thought I'd get some feedback. I also read some opinions on > the GIMP site that made it sound like they were superior for some > reason to .gif or .jpg files. Any opinions here on how? > > Thx, Phil > > -- > "Trying to do something with your life is like > sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jan 4 09:26:10 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> * Dave Sherman [020104 06:10]: > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Except that the fact that w2k server is the only real way to compare to linux, since it actually has true remote administration capibilities. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Jan 4 10:14:39 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools Message-ID: <1010157467.13532.11.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> We're having some bandwidth questions on our web server and I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for tools to use to check this out. We want to find out where the data is going...what ports and protocols are busiest, where the data is coming from and where it's going etc. Thanks for any suggestions, Brady From fertch at mninter.net Fri Jan 4 10:17:08 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! References: Message-ID: <3C35B093.BE50972C@mninter.net> I found that my HP DeskJet 630c wasn't supported in a network environment via my Jet Direct 170x box. I had to return it and buy a DeskJet 960 which is network capable. I would look into compatibility between hardware as well as OS. Do a search against HP's support site for compatibility on network printing and you will find a list of non-compatible printers in a network environment. "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > | HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) > | - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation > | - 72mb memory > | - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) > > Does that mean the printer actually speaks PS? If so, you shouldn't need > to do much filtering at all. From dsherman at real-time.com Fri Jan 4 10:20:08 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1010158256.2501.6.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Fri, 2002-01-04 at 08:58, Scott Dier wrote: > * Dave Sherman [020104 06:10]: > > > "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. > > Except that the fact that w2k server is the only real way to compare to > linux, since it actually has true remote administration capibilities. > > -- > Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ I just want to say for the record, I did NOT write the above quote! That line was quoted by Bob Tanner from an article he linked in his original post. I replied to his post, and somehow my name got "credited" in Scott's post above. My post supplied two URLs with interesting articles comparing the TCO of Windows vs. Linux. Anyway, I don't know how or why my post should show up so late, since the date was Oct 31... Dave Sherman -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 4 10:21:32 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <20020103195447.77fd85a8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 07:54:47PM -0600 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103093422.00a51050@mail.bitstream.net> <20020103160902.E26871@rephil.org> <200201040045.g040jKd02524@RedConcepts.NET> <20020103195447.77fd85a8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020104093514.A26860@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 07:54:47PM -0600, Mike Hicks wrote: > Munir Nassar wrote: > > Yes there is, instead of using: > > $cat /etc/passwd | blablabla > > use: > > $ypcat passwd | blablabla > > That doesn't include the local system, does it? Nope. That's why you'd put the logic in a script and pipe both /etc/passwd and the output of ypcat to it. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 4 10:23:53 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Posting from non-subscribed addresses In-Reply-To: <20020103183310.A13954@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 06:33:10PM -0600 References: <20020103123241.T3301@real-time.com> <20020103183310.A13954@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020104093854.B26860@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 06:33:10PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Could you specify a bit more? The "From " header or the "From: " header? I'm > sending email from a different server now, and thus a change in the "From " > header, but I do edit the "From: " header to match my subscribed email address. I'm pretty sure that mailman just looks at From:, so if that matches a subscribed address, you should be fine. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jan 4 10:26:41 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> Message-ID: On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 22:05, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is possible to > listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program would I need. Thanks Alot. xmms is a Winamp wannabe (formerly called X11amp, go figure) Musicmatch jukebox now runs decently well under WINE, just go to musicmatch.com and download the linux version. I prefer Musicmatch under Windows for tracking all my MP3s so I'm glad to see it running under linux halfway decently. -Brian From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 4 10:30:29 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics In-Reply-To: <20020104080951.C16122@iucha.net>; from florin@iucha.net on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:09:51AM -0600 References: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> <20020104080951.C16122@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020104095433.C26860@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:09:51AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > Netscape >= 6.0 You mean I only imagined all the time that I went to www.gnu.org and saw the graphics in Netscape 4.x? (Of course, I just tried to verify that and, although gnu.org is fine, www.gnu.org appears to be unreachable from here...) -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From veldy at veldy.net Fri Jan 4 10:32:51 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd References: Message-ID: <003e01c19538$d32662e0$3028680a@tgt.com> Do you have a route to allow broadcast on 192.168.1.255? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Patchen" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd > Anyone out there able to tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Trying to setup ISC's DHCPd 2.0pl5 on RedHat 7.0. Setup with just a simple subnet as follows: > subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { > range 192.168.1.50 192.168.1.70; } > > When I start dhcpd, I get the following error: > Can't bind to dhcp address: Address already in use exiting. > > The ip address of the machine this is running on is 192.168.1.109, and I have added a route to 255.255.255.255 through eth0 > > >From what I have read in the mini-howto on dhcpd, this should be setup right. Anyone have any ideas?? > > Thanks in advance for your help, > > > > Mike Patchen > IT Technician > City Of Chaska > 952-448-2851 x293 > mpatchen*at*chaska.net > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Fri Jan 4 10:34:16 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics References: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> <20020104080951.C16122@iucha.net> Message-ID: <005001c19539$c9e2e810$3028680a@tgt.com> Konqueror as well :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Florin Iucha" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PNG graphics On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:55:02PM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Can anyone give me a read on how portable PNG files really are? > I figure everyone can read them, but before putting a bunch in a web > site, I thought I'd get some feedback. I also read some opinions on > the GIMP site that made it sound like they were superior for some > reason to .gif or .jpg files. Any opinions here on how? IE >= 4.0 Netscape >= 6.0 Mozilla Opera They are better than .gif because of the license and better than jpg because they are loseless and have alpha channel. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jan 4 13:15:05 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> Message-ID: <15413.55564.230887.930503@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "l" == lxy writes: l> On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 22:05, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: >> Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is >> possible to listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program >> would I need. Thanks Alot. l> xmms is a Winamp wannabe (formerly called X11amp, go figure) l> Musicmatch jukebox now runs decently well under WINE, just go l> to musicmatch.com and download the linux version. I prefer l> Musicmatch under Windows for tracking all my MP3s so I'm glad l> to see it running under linux halfway decently. I'd be careful about using WINE. The security guides all suggest that emulators are a big no-no. The problem is that they all must bust the Unix protection model pretty much. There must be a mess of stuff in there running suid root, at the very least.... XMMS runs fine. IMHO if you have to run musicmatch, I'd recommend running Windows.... R From myok at ogzr.org Fri Jan 4 13:19:33 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Myok) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools References: <1010157467.13532.11.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: <001901c1953e$bad1b0e0$4165a8c0@here> ntop, etherape, tcpdump, and ethereal all spring to mind. If your web server is Apache, freshmeat.net has a number of log-analysis tools that could help you too. -- Carl Patten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brady Hegberg" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:17 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools > We're having some bandwidth questions on our web server and I was > wondering if anyone had suggestions for tools to use to check this out. > We want to find out where the data is going...what ports and protocols > are busiest, where the data is coming from and where it's going etc. > > Thanks for any suggestions, > Brady > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Fri Jan 4 13:25:53 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TCLUG Monthly Meeting Message-ID: <20020104165432.GA3041@fandre.com> When: Saturday January 5th, 2002 noon - 2pm Topic: Linux LVM http://www.sistina.com/products_lvm.htm Where: University of Minnesota Room EE-CS 3-180 http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html Check out http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings for more informataion. Hope to see you there! From MPatchen at chaska.net Fri Jan 4 13:29:38 2002 From: MPatchen at chaska.net (Mike Patchen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd Message-ID: That didn't work either. What I found out is if I down the interface, bring up dhcpd, then bring the interface back up everything works. This sounds like a lot of trouble just to make changes to the dhcp config. Any ideas?? Thanks Mike Patchen IT Technician City Of Chaska 952-448-2851 x293 mpatchen*at*chaska.net >>> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" 01/04/02 09:59AM >>> Do you have a route to allow broadcast on 192.168.1.255? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Patchen" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd > Anyone out there able to tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Trying to setup ISC's DHCPd 2.0pl5 on RedHat 7.0. Setup with just a simple subnet as follows: > subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { > range 192.168.1.50 192.168.1.70; } > > When I start dhcpd, I get the following error: > Can't bind to dhcp address: Address already in use exiting. > > The ip address of the machine this is running on is 192.168.1.109, and I have added a route to 255.255.255.255 through eth0 > > >From what I have read in the mini-howto on dhcpd, this should be setup right. Anyone have any ideas?? From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 13:31:35 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics In-Reply-To: <20020104095433.C26860@sherohman.org>; from Dave Sherohman on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:54:33AM -0600 References: <20020103235502.A30898@rephil.org> <20020104080951.C16122@iucha.net> <20020104095433.C26860@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020104111447.A4100@rephil.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:54:33AM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:09:51AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Netscape >= 6.0 > > You mean I only imagined all the time that I went to www.gnu.org and > saw the graphics in Netscape 4.x? (Of course, I just tried to verify > that and, although gnu.org is fine, www.gnu.org appears to be > unreachable from here...) No, it's not correct that Netscape must be >=6.0. The png link someone provided said that the BigTwo have had PNG display capability since around '97, and I just verified that Netscape 4.72 on SunOS at the U displays the little PNG title image I put on www.rephil.org. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 13:32:06 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Scuse the test Message-ID: <20020104111535.B4100@rephil.org> Checking maillist acceptance of msgs. From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Jan 4 13:38:53 2002 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010165493.13532.19.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> On both my systems Musicmatch crashes when I try to start it. Apparently because of a missing lib file which I can't find anywhere. I do use it on Windows to rip CDs though and it's pretty good for that purpose. Brady > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 22:05, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > > > Hello, I have Redhat Linux 7.2 and I was wondering if it is possible to > > listen to mp3's under linux, and if so what program would I need. Thanks Alot. > > xmms is a Winamp wannabe (formerly called X11amp, go figure) > > Musicmatch jukebox now runs decently well under WINE, just go to > musicmatch.com and download the linux version. I prefer Musicmatch under > Windows for tracking all my MP3s so I'm glad to see it running under linux > halfway decently. > > -Brian From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Jan 4 13:43:13 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:39:57AM -0600 References: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> Message-ID: <20020104114201.C12306@wookimus.net> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:39:57AM -0600, Brian wrote: > On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 22:05, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > xmms is a Winamp wannabe (formerly called X11amp, go figure) Fortunately for all of us xmms users, it has developed into a respectable product in its own right. Modular and stable, xmms fulfills all that I need in a graphical mp3, ogg, wav, au, CDROM player that interfaces with /dev/dsp, esd, etc... If I really want to go archaic and use only the console, there are the following to choose from: ogg123, mpg321, and play (sox). There are more out there, but I rarely need them. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jan 4 14:01:16 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! References: <3C35B093.BE50972C@mninter.net> Message-ID: <3C35F210.E4AF3958@mn.mediaone.net> Yes. The printer speaks postscript, and is network compatible. Last year I purchased a Minolta 1100L laser. Ask me about GDI printers <-( Ask me about SOHOWare "printservers" >-( Ask me about finding a place that sells toner cartridges :-0 So I gave up and went with the big guys. I checked both HP and LinuxPrinting.Org before I bought. Printer cost is way more but I expect to make it all up in what I spend on toner cartridges and lost time (in theory anyway!) shawn wrote: > I found that my HP DeskJet 630c wasn't supported in a network environment via my > Jet Direct 170x box. I had to return it and buy a DeskJet 960 which is network > capable. I would look into compatibility between hardware as well as OS. Do a > search against HP's support site for compatibility on network printing and you > will find a list of non-compatible printers in a network environment. > > "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" wrote: > > > | HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) > > | - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation > > | - 72mb memory > > | - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) > > > > Does that mean the printer actually speaks PS? If so, you shouldn't need > > to do much filtering at all. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Fri Jan 4 14:07:12 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools In-Reply-To: <1010157467.13532.11.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> References: <1010157467.13532.11.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> Message-ID: <20020104182208.E623E28E53@thursday.freeze.com> On Friday 04 January 2002 09:17 am, you wrote: > We're having some bandwidth questions on our web server and I was > wondering if anyone had suggestions for tools to use to check this out. > We want to find out where the data is going...what ports and protocols > are busiest, where the data is coming from and where it's going etc. Along the same lines, I am looking for a tool that will tell the bandwith usage per virtual host in apache, if anyone knows something that does that too. Jay From clay at fandre.com Fri Jan 4 14:14:06 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG Monthly Meeting Message-ID: <20020104033828.GD16433@fandre.com> When: Saturday January 5th, 2001 noon - 2pm Topic: Linux LVM http://www.sistina.com/products_lvm.htm Where: University of Minnesota Room EE-CS 3-180 http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html Check out http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings for more informataion. Hope to see you there! _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From eng at pinenet.com Fri Jan 4 14:14:28 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom Message-ID: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com> I installed a double boot, Windows 95 and SuSE 7.0 Pro, system at Midwest Electronics yesterday. I was very surprised by the interest generated. Several customers were quite knowledgeable about Linux and had installed systems of their own. An employee of the store had been learning Linux for a while. In fact Linux seemed to be the main attraction, with hardware ignored. The complexity of Linux can be justified if people are shown the power of Linux. Both vendors and their customers only seem to need the slightest exposure to Linux. Since Minneapolis (etc.) is quite a trek, I can only hope they can keep the system alive. From eng at pinenet.com Fri Jan 4 14:14:51 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCSI Linux controller Message-ID: <01C19521.BA987EA0.eng@pinenet.com> For non-disk SCSI controllers, it might be nice to be able to reprogram the SCSI Bios chip to Application Specific Interface Commands. From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jan 4 14:22:18 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <15413.55564.230887.930503@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: | I'd be careful about using WINE. The security guides all suggest that | emulators are a big no-no. The problem is that they all must bust the | Unix protection model pretty much. There must be a mess of stuff in | there running suid root, at the very least.... | | XMMS runs fine. IMHO if you have to run musicmatch, I'd recommend | running windows. But... Wine Is Not an Emulator. :) From my limited understanding it maps the windows system calls to their Linux equivlents, allowing the windows binary to run nativly. AFAIK, you don't need any setuid stuff to run wine. MusicMatch even has a "Linux" version of their software. Just for kicks and giggles I installed it. It's not a true port, but a wine hack. Maybe they tweaked their code to work better in wine, but like crossover, Corel Office, and others it includes it's own Wine install. All well and good I suppose as long as it works. I'm sticking with grip, xmms, and Ogg Vorbis myself. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "I MIGHT be DANGEROUS!" --The Tick From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jan 4 14:25:10 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351473C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> ntop works well for this. It tends to crash once in awhile though, and don't expose the web interface publically since it's had a history of security issues. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Myok [mailto:myok@ogzr.org] > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:42 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools > > > ntop, etherape, tcpdump, and ethereal all spring to mind. If > your web server is Apache, freshmeat.net has a number of > log-analysis tools that could help you too. > > -- > Carl Patten > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brady Hegberg" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:17 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools > > > > We're having some bandwidth questions on our web server and I was > > wondering if anyone had suggestions for tools to use to check this > > out. We want to find out where the data is going...what ports and > > protocols are busiest, where the data is coming from and where it's > > going etc. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions, > > Brady > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From techy_stuff at lycos.com Fri Jan 4 14:27:41 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DHCP IP address not working! Message-ID: Hi All, I have just installed RedHat 7.2 but I am having severe problems with getting IP address via DHCP. This is the story. During installation, I enabled DHCP for the two Ethernet interfaces my server has. After installation, my server was given a name localhost.localdomain with only the loopback IP address 127.0.0.1, even though the DHCP server of my DSL provider has been contacted and an IP address obtained. When I typed ifconfig at the command line I saw the IP address and gateways obtained from the DHCP server. The weired thing is, this IP address does not appear in the IP address configuration window and the /etc/hosts file. When I changed the server name from localhost to the real name and rebooted, I kept getting an error saying "Could not obtain IP address for " I used to have Redhat 7.0 and never had this problem. I did not do an upgrade, I decided to do a clean installation of RedHat 7.2. Has anyone come across this sort of problem? Is there something obvious that I am doing wrong? Regards Michael -- Click here for your very own create-a-date adventure from MatchMaker Go to http://ecard.matchmaker.com/dating.html From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jan 4 14:31:12 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020104114201.C12306@wookimus.net> References: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> <20020104114201.C12306@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> As a follow-up, can someone explain for a linux user of very little brain what goes on with the sound drivers? I run KDE and periodically it seems to grab up the sound card with ITS library, and then XMMS complains that it can't get access to the dsp. Is there any way to resolve this problem, or do I just have to live with it? It seems like even warning beeps can cause this problem. R From techy_stuff at lycos.com Fri Jan 4 14:35:30 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DHCP IP address not working! Message-ID: Hi All, I have just installed RedHat 7.2 but I am having severe problems with getting IP address via DHCP. This is the story. During installation, I enabled DHCP for the two Ethernet interfaces my server has. After installation, my server was given a name localhost.localdomain with only the loopback IP address 127.0.0.1, even though the DHCP server of my DSL provider has been contacted and an IP address obtained. When I typed ifconfig at the command line I saw the IP address and gateways obtained from the DHCP server. The weired thing is, this IP address does not appear in the IP address configuration window and the /etc/hosts file. When I changed the server name from localhost to the real name and rebooted, I kept getting an error saying "Could not obtain IP address for " I used to have Redhat 7.0 and never had this problem. I did not do an upgrade, I decided to do a clean installation of RedHat 7.2. Has anyone come across this sort of problem? Is there something obvious that I am doing wrong? Regards Michael -- Click here for your very own create-a-date adventure from MatchMaker Go to http://ecard.matchmaker.com/dating.html From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jan 4 15:28:04 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <15413.55564.230887.930503@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <15414.4319.171931.957007@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "AZ" == Andy Zbikowski <(Zibby)" > writes: AZ>I'd be careful about using WINE. The security guides all AZ> suggest thatemulators are a big no-no. The problem is that AZ> they all must bust theUnix protection model pretty much. AZ> There must be a mess of stuff inthere running suid root, at AZ> the very least.... | XMMS runs fine. IMHO if you have to AZ> run musicmatch, I'd recommendrunning windows. AZ> But... Wine Is Not an Emulator. :) From my limited AZ> understanding it maps the windows system calls to their Linux AZ> equivlents, allowing the windows binary to run nativly. AFAIK, AZ> you don't need any setuid stuff to run wine. Cool! Thanks for putting me right on this. Still, I always get an icky feeling using this sort of thing. Windows has such a different (NT) or non-existent (plain Windows) security/access model, that I prefer to Just Say No. Like you AZ> I'm sticking with grip, xmms, and Ogg Vorbis myself. :) R From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jan 4 15:30:08 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351473E@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Along the same lines, I am looking for a tool that will tell > the bandwith > usage per virtual host in apache, if anyone knows something > that does that > too. You should be able to get the overall amount of data transferred based on each site using analog. Getting real time info on it for something like mrtg might be kinda hard though. Jay From jacque at fruitioninc.com Fri Jan 4 15:34:40 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics In-Reply-To: <20020104111447.A4100@rephil.org> Message-ID: many browsers "support" the PNG format, but not "fully". Many browsers for a long time didn't support the "alpha channel" or transparency part, making them not as usefull in terms of design (and its still pretty spotty at best). Also PNGs can be saved at different bit depths ( 8, 24, 32 ) and not all depths are supported in all browsers (ie the PNG will cause the browser to crash or the image to display with the wrong colors). Although for some older browsers, there are plug-ins available to view PNGs I wish that they were more widely supported. PNGs are supposed to be able to adjust for the differing gamma settings between platforms, so colors stay consistent across platforms. theres a list of supporting browsers here: http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapbr.html ~jacque > > You mean I only imagined all the time that I went to www.gnu.org and > > saw the graphics in Netscape 4.x? (Of course, I just tried to verify > > that and, although gnu.org is fine, www.gnu.org appears to be > > unreachable from here...) > > No, it's not correct that Netscape must be >=6.0. > > The png link someone provided said that the BigTwo have had PNG > display capability since around '97, and I just verified that Netscape > 4.72 on SunOS at the U displays the little PNG title image I put on > www.rephil.org. > From dsherman at real-time.com Fri Jan 4 15:35:07 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom In-Reply-To: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com> References: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <1010176744.3008.11.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Fri, 2002-01-04 at 13:09, Rick Engebretson wrote: > I installed a double boot, Windows 95 and SuSE 7.0 Pro, system at Midwest > Electronics yesterday. I was very surprised by the interest generated. > > Several customers were quite knowledgeable about Linux and had installed > systems of their own. An employee of the store had been learning Linux for > a while. In fact Linux seemed to be the main attraction, with hardware > ignored. > > The complexity of Linux can be justified if people are shown the power of > Linux. Both vendors and their customers only seem to need the slightest > exposure to Linux. > > Since Minneapolis (etc.) is quite a trek, I can only hope they can keep the > system alive. I'm not a SuSE guru (more of a RedHat/Mandrake user), but I would be glad to help if they have a problem with the system. They can reach me via cell phone at 612-296-0854. Dave Sherman -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Jan 4 15:39:45 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:43 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! Message-ID: <02010414414801.02114@edith> Hmmm, should have changed my from address. Sorry.. Kelly Black KB0GBJ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:44:26 -0600 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org On Thursday 03 January 2002 14:46, you wrote: SNIP--RE:Cups-- > Those are the debian packages. For slackware, everything is prob in one > tarball. (except for the ppd's) I had issues with authentication with cups and Slack 8.0 and the web interface. I mangled the authentication and got it working, but I see talk on the CUPS mailing list and I see a patch is in the works. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Jan 4 15:40:33 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Debian window manager config question Message-ID: <02010414424402.02114@edith> Another from: address line misshap... Kelly Black KB0GBJ ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Debian window manager config question Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:55:57 -0600 From: Kelly Black To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org For all you Debian bitches in the lug: How do you change the window manager in Debian? I am currently running wmaker, but it has a big mutant block for a mouse pointer. Details of the X-setup: (SV3 x-server, Diamond Stealth 3d-2000). The same thing happened on my ancient TI laptop when I installed Debian with wmaker. I apt-get upgraded all installed packages to try and make it magically "go away", but no luck :-) (The apt-get upgrade was a slick operation, and I can see why people get to like Debian). In order to see if it was related to the window manager wmaker, I tried to figure out how to change to another one. I saw some docs that mentioned update-alternatives, but quickly got lost on how to drive it (if this is even the tool to use). The update-alternatives looks more like a tool for other scripts to call. Also, can someone point me to a good Debian book for some of the basics like this? All I have found to date deal with initial menu-based installation instructions, and don't tell you things like how to change the window manager after the initial install, how to set up networking after you skipped it during the initial install etc... Thanks, Kelly Black 73's de KB0GBJ ------------------------------------------------------- From jeffr at odeon.net Fri Jan 4 15:49:26 2002 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: As I understand it, typically in linux only one thing can be accessing the sound device at one time. This means that you can get strange noises from your display manager or you can get xmms to play an mp3, but not both at the same time. Now there is a way around this. If you use esd (Enlightened Sound Daemon IIRC) as the 'device' that all of your other applications like xmms use for output, then esd can mix all the various sound streams together and present just one sound stream to the sound card, thus allowing your system beeps, display manager sounds, and xmms to all play nice together at the same time. Jeff On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > As a follow-up, can someone explain for a linux user of very little > brain what goes on with the sound drivers? > > I run KDE and periodically it seems to grab up the sound card with ITS > library, and then XMMS complains that it can't get access to the dsp. > > Is there any way to resolve this problem, or do I just have to live > with it? It seems like even warning beeps can cause this problem. > > R > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From veldy at veldy.net Fri Jan 4 15:49:48 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd References: Message-ID: <001801c19564$f63ac740$3028680a@tgt.com> No. You must have something incorrectly configured. Why are you using static routes? How are you starting dhcpd? You should do something like so: /usr/local/sbin/dhcpd eth0 Also, eth0 should already be configured. Further, you should have your /usr/local/etc/dhcpd.conf setup correct: default-lease-time 604800; max-lease-time 604800; option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0; option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255; option routers 192.168.1.109; #assumes host running dhcpd is the gateway as well <=== set to gateway option domain-name-servers x.y.z.zz, x.y.z.zzz; option domain-name "some.domain"; subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { range 192.168.1.50 192.168.1.70; } # example of a static mapped DHCP configuration host some_host { hardware ethernet XY:XY:XY:XY:XY:XY; fixed-address 192.168.1.49; } When it starts, you should see something like so (modified a bit): Internet Software Consortium DHCP Server 2.0pl5 Copyright 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 The Internet Software Consortium. All rights reserved. Please contribute if you find this software useful. For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/dhcp-contrib.html Listening on BPF/eth0/00:00:00:00:00:00/192.168.1.0 Sending on BPF/ech0/00:00:00:00:00:00/192.168.1.0 Sending on Socket/fallback/fallback-net Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Patchen" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] dhcpd > That didn't work either. What I found out is if I down the interface, bring up dhcpd, then bring the interface back up everything works. This sounds like a lot of trouble just to make changes to the dhcp config. Any ideas?? > > Thanks > > Mike Patchen > IT Technician > City Of Chaska > 952-448-2851 x293 > mpatchen*at*chaska.net > > >>> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" 01/04/02 09:59AM >>> > Do you have a route to allow broadcast on 192.168.1.255? > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Patchen" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:37 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd > > > > Anyone out there able to tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Trying to > setup ISC's DHCPd 2.0pl5 on RedHat 7.0. Setup with just a simple subnet as > follows: > > subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { > > range 192.168.1.50 192.168.1.70; } > > > > When I start dhcpd, I get the following error: > > Can't bind to dhcp address: Address already in use exiting. > > > > The ip address of the machine this is running on is 192.168.1.109, and I > have added a route to 255.255.255.255 through eth0 > > > > >From what I have read in the mini-howto on dhcpd, this should be setup > right. Anyone have any ideas?? > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From schanno at tcfreenet.org Fri Jan 4 16:25:49 2002 From: schanno at tcfreenet.org (Terry R Schanno) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Books for sale In-Reply-To: <1010176744.3008.11.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <20020104153953.S31669-100000@tcfreenet.org> I have the following books available to the highest offer. Email an offer and we will work out details. Amiga System Programmer's Guide, 1988 Modem Command Guide for the Intel SatisFAXtion Board, May 1991 2 x MetaWare High C/C++ Debugger User's Guide and Reference, September, 1994 Using Assembly Language (Que), 1987 ARexx User's Reference Manual (Amiga), 1987 RadioShack Service Manual for TRS-80 Amiga C for Beginners, 1991 An introduction to Statistical Methods and Data Analysis, 1977 Oracle; Understanding SQL*Net Release 2.3, 1996 MC68000 Assembly Language and Systems Programming, 1987 Oracle; SNMP Support Reference Guide, 1995 Power C, the high preformance C compiler, 1990 Netware 5 Administrators Handbook, 1999 (Dogeared pages) C Programer's guide to NETBIOS, 1988 Novell UnixWare 2.0 System Owner Handbook, 1994 A*Talk III, 1988 2 x 386/SRCBug Reference Manual, 1995 Programmer's Guide to NETWRE, 1990 (Repaired spine) APL.68000 Language Manual, 1986 Novell UnixWare 2.0 Desktop User Handbook, 1994 Amiga C for Advanced Programmers, 1989 AMIGA ROM Kernel Reference Manual (Devices), 1991 Go Solo 2; The authorized Guide to Version 2 of the Single UNIX Spec, 1997 Principles of Corporate Finace, 1988 MetaWare High C/C++ Windows 32-B App Dev. Guide, 1993 Phar Lap Untilities Reference Manual, 1993 MetaWare High C Library Reference, 1994 The Programmer's PC Handbook Second Eddition (1991) Oeacle MultiProtocol Interchange, 1995 Metaware High C/C++ Programmer's Guide of OS/2, NT, EDos Borland Tubo Assembler User's Guide Borland Turbo Debugger User's Guide Oracle Network Products, 1995 MYST Strategies and Secrets Borland Windows API Volume III Undocumented Windows, A Programmer's Guide to REserver MS Windows API Func. Cross Platform Programming for Windows Data Structures and Algorithm Analysis in C++ Intro to the Amiga 2000 Sybase Building Internet and Enterprise applications Programmer's guide to the Amiga Borland Turbo Profiler 2.0 User's Guide Borland Windows API Volume II Applications Programming in ANSI C Inside the Amiga With C, Second Edition AmigaDOS inside and Out Sonix User's guide Problem Solving, Abstraction and Design using C++ Undocumented DOS a programmer's guide to reserved MS-DOS Functions Windows API Volume I Tools.h++ Foundation Class Library for C++ PRogramming Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs Digi Paint (AMIGA Drawing Program) Phar Lap Libraries and System Calls Reference Amiga MAchine Language AmigaBASIC, Inside and out SAA/LU6.2 Distributed Networks and Applications CBOS System Guide Terry Schanno TCFN Volunteer Coordinator schanno@tcfreenet.org From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 4 16:29:38 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Debian window manager config question In-Reply-To: <02010414424402.02114@edith>; from kelly-black@mediaone.net on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:44PM -0600 References: <02010414424402.02114@edith> Message-ID: <20020104154753.H26860@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:44PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > In order to see if it was related to the window manager wmaker, I tried to > figure out how to change to another one. I saw some docs that mentioned > update-alternatives, but quickly got lost on how to drive it (if this is even > the tool to use). The update-alternatives looks more like a tool for other > scripts to call. ~$ update-alternatives --display x-window-manager x-window-manager - status is auto. link currently points to /usr/X11R6/bin/wmaker /usr/X11R6/bin/wmaker - priority 50 slave x-window-manager.1.gz: /usr/X11R6/man/man1/wmaker.1x.gz Current `best' version is /usr/X11R6/bin/wmaker. As root, `update-alternatives --config x-window-manager` will let you manually select the default window manager. However, for your purposes, you'd probably be better off to just right-click on the background, go to the 'WindowManagers' submenu, and switch window managers on the fly instead of mucking about with your default wm. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 16:30:02 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PNG graphics In-Reply-To: ; from Jacqueline Urick on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:39:53PM -0600 References: <20020104111447.A4100@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020104155053.A6977@rephil.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:39:53PM -0600, Jacqueline Urick wrote: > best). Also PNGs can be saved at different bit depths ( 8, 24, 32 ) and not > all depths are supported in all browsers (ie the PNG will cause the browser > to crash Cool! So, this is, like, DARING me to write a web page that says "If your computer does not display the following image properly in 5 seconds, all your data has been erased by your web browser" then does a re-direct to the least accepted .png possible. ;) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From jeffr at odeon.net Fri Jan 4 16:30:31 2002 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351473E@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: Yes, analog is good for this, as is webalizer (which I just converted to from analog). You will need to set up logging for each virtual host in apache though if you haven't already. Again, probably not what you are looking for if you need real time numbers, but very good for parsing your historical logs. Jeff On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Along the same lines, I am looking for a tool that will tell > > the bandwith > > usage per virtual host in apache, if anyone knows something > > that does that > > too. > > You should be able to get the overall amount of data transferred based on > each site using analog. Getting real time info on it for something like > mrtg might be kinda hard though. > > Jay From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 16:34:57 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: ; from jeffr@odeon.net on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:11:05PM -0600 References: <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020104155626.B6977@rephil.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:11:05PM -0600, jeffr@odeon.net wrote: > Now there is a way around this. If you use esd (Enlightened Sound Daemon > IIRC) as the 'device' that all of your other applications like xmms use > for output, then esd can mix all the various sound streams together and > present just one sound stream to the sound card, thus allowing your system > beeps, display manager sounds, and xmms to all play nice together at the > same time. This is true. Mostly. esd is a good idea, but there are occasionally some difficulties when using some programs. It largely depends on how "professional" your audio needs are. This isn't to say esd is not good -- it is -- but it isn't invisible to the user yet. Some sound cards support multiple input streams, but this is entirely hardware dependent. I'd like to know more about how esd does software -- i.e. truncation and scaling, and also how they fill/clock/sync their output buffers. So much source, so little time. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 4 16:36:18 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Debian window manager config question In-Reply-To: <02010414424402.02114@edith>; from Kelly Black on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:44PM -0600 References: <02010414424402.02114@edith> Message-ID: <20020104160037.C6977@rephil.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:44PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > How do you change the window manager in Debian? Hrm -- do you have any others installed? apt-get install fvwm, or apt-get install icewm or black box, or sawfish or whatever you want. IIRC, it's handled smoothly and then if you do an 'update-menus' you should be able to do it live. > Also, can someone point me to a good Debian book for some of the basics like > this? I guess I'd say "Learning Debian GNU/Linux," an O'Reilly title. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Jan 4 16:42:19 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: Debian window manager config question In-Reply-To: <02010414424402.02114@edith>; from kelly-black@mediaone.net on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 02:42:44PM -0600 References: <02010414424402.02114@edith> Message-ID: <20020104161416.F12306@wookimus.net> > For all you Debian bitches in the lug: > > How do you change the window manager in Debian? > > I am currently running wmaker, but it has a big mutant block for a mouse > pointer. Your problem is not related to the window manager. Why don't you manually start X on a virtual console w/o any window manager at all. Kill gdm, xdm, or kdm if they're running. Then run X manually: bash# X If the mutant block is still there, then you have a configuration or driver problem with X. Try using the auto-guess config file generated by X with bash# X -configure When you get the prompt back, edit the resulting file to make sure your mouse will work for your machine. Then run X with that config file: bash# X -xf86config /root/XF86Config.new If the big black box is still there, try enabling some of the options that X provided you in the Device section. They should be commented out by default. Read the info regarding your card in /usr/share/doc/xserver-*. Tweak the XF86Config file until you get something that works, then move it to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4. To answer your original question: bash# update-alternatives --config x-window-manager Or, stick it in your .xsession: # example ~/.xsession # /usr/bin/rxvt& /usr/bin/blackbox # # End of example -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jan 4 17:31:40 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <15414.11451.253263.832904@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "j" == jeffr writes: j> As I understand it, typically in linux only one thing can be j> accessing the sound device at one time. This means that you j> can get strange noises from your display manager or you can get j> xmms to play an mp3, but not both at the same time. j> Now there is a way around this. If you use esd (Enlightened j> Sound Daemon IIRC) as the 'device' that all of your other j> applications like xmms use for output, then esd can mix all the j> various sound streams together and present just one sound j> stream to the sound card, thus allowing your system beeps, j> display manager sounds, and xmms to all play nice together at j> the same time. Is there any better documentation out there for esd? I HAVE the darn thing, but the docs don't really explain how to use the daemon as a device. The docs explain how to start the daemon, but say nothing about how to use it... Actually, looking around, I see that KDE (which I'm using) already supports multiple accesses to the sound cart through aRts. Maybe the following will work: calling 'artsdsp xmms' instead of xmms. Dunno for sure.... R From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Fri Jan 4 18:47:27 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG Installfest Message-ID: <20020104201751.GJ3088@fandre.com> Next TCLUG Installfest When: Saturday, February 2nd, 2002, 10am-5pm Where: River Valley Church 14898 Energy Way Suite 200 Apple Valley, MN 55124 The church is in the west end of the Valley Business Park facility, with the main entrance on the south side of the building. What to bring: Your computer(s) if you want help installing/configuring your system. Or you can just come to watch. Bring everything you need since there may not be extras. If you have an extra power-strip if might be a good idea to bring that too. There will be network connections available, so bring your network cards/cables/hubs too. Cost: Completely free, including software and service If you are planning on attending, please register here: http://www.mn-linux.org/installfest/registration.php For more information, check out the TCLUG website: http://www.mn-linux.org/installfest/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 4 18:49:16 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <15414.11451.253263.832904@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <15414.11451.253263.832904@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020104180150.4007e284.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Robert P. Goldman" wrote: > > Actually, looking around, I see that KDE (which I'm using) already > supports multiple accesses to the sound cart through aRts. > > Maybe the following will work: calling 'artsdsp xmms' instead of > xmms. xmms has plugins for different output methods. Just go to the preferences window. The first tab should have available output plugins at the bottom. If esd or aRts doesn't show up, you may need to install a package with the right plugin.. esd also has (or, it did have, at least) an `esddsp' wrapper script for funnelling output intended for /dev/dsp to the sound daemon. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Know what I hate? I hate / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ rhetorical questions! \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020104/21aeddff/attachment.pgp From dan at williamsongraphics.com Fri Jan 4 20:39:48 2002 From: dan at williamsongraphics.com (dan williamson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Understanding Standard input Message-ID: <200201050104.g05147500758@sprite.real-time.com> I use this script to resize digital images for web pages and it works pretty well. You can change the file format to whatever you want, ie tiff's. #!/bin/sh # script to rename and resize jpg files #it also takes the old files and moves them to a dir called Raw #The line where it says: R$outfilename the R can substituted #whatever name you want to prepend to it mkdir Raw egrep "SizeY|Magnification" *.jpg >> magDB for filename in *; do case $filename in *.jpg ) infilename=$filename outfilename=${filename%.jpg}.jpg convert -geometry 345x184 $infilename R$outfilename mv $infilename Raw;; * ) echo "error: $filename not a JPG file." ;; esac done # an ! at the end of the 645x484 will force the aspect ratio to change. i dont #need that. just in case, tho. :-) Dan Williamson From jeffr at odeon.net Fri Jan 4 20:51:55 2002 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <15414.11451.253263.832904@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: Well, once the esd daemon is running, in xmms for example, you just pick esd under the output section of the config. It's similar under most apps that support esd. Not all do. As someone else mentioned, the quality isn't always the greatest, but it does usually work. I haven't heard of aRts, and would be interested in hearing how it works. Jeff On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Robert P. Goldman wrote: [snip] > Is there any better documentation out there for esd? I HAVE the darn > thing, but the docs don't really explain how to use the daemon as a > device. The docs explain how to start the daemon, but say nothing > about how to use it... > > Actually, looking around, I see that KDE (which I'm using) already > supports multiple accesses to the sound cart through aRts. > > Maybe the following will work: calling 'artsdsp xmms' instead of > xmms. > > Dunno for sure.... > R From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 4 20:53:08 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with shell script In-Reply-To: <20020103195447.77fd85a8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103093422.00a51050@mail.bitstream.net> <200201040045.g040jKd02524@RedConcepts.NET> <20020103195447.77fd85a8.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200201050229.g052TXV15838@RedConcepts.NET> On Thursday 03 January 2002 07:54 pm, you wrote: > > Yes there is, instead of using: > > $cat /etc/passwd | blablabla > > use: > > $ypcat passwd | blablabla > > That doesn't include the local system, does it? now that you mentioned it, i may do that. not only that but it will also include all the users from the server (if you are using /etc/passwd for passwords on the server) Please note, that i have only installed YP/NIS once. -munir From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 4 21:56:12 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom In-Reply-To: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com> References: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <200201050244.g052ifV18702@RedConcepts.NET> On Friday 04 January 2002 01:09 pm, you wrote: > Since Minneapolis (etc.) is quite a trek, I can only hope they can keep > the system alive. Are the open on saturdays? if so i could stop by there every saturday, or every other saturday for general linux maintanance. otherwise if they are open late i could stop by there after work fridays... -munir PS. hey, who doesnt like to hang out in a computer shop? From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 4 21:58:30 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> <20020104114201.C12306@wookimus.net> <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <200201050256.g052utV20401@RedConcepts.NET> On Friday 04 January 2002 01:58 pm, you wrote: > As a follow-up, can someone explain for a linux user of very little > brain what goes on with the sound drivers? like everything in linux its all in layers, first you have the kernel modules, on top of that userland programs try to connect to the dsp considering that the kernel modules all loaded fine and you are good to go here is how it plays out. AppA talks directly to /dev/dsp to produce sounds doing that will lock /dev/dsp untill it is done (*) not only that but this also requires AppA to be able to interface directly with /dev/dsp now the bright people in the baazar prodoced middle-men programs(artsd, esd etc. ) these programs connect to /dev/dsp locking it, but in exchange they allow multiple Apps that are aware of this middle-man to connect at once. additionally this allows these apps not to need to know about /dev/dsp and how to play with it. (meaning that in an integrated environment like KDE or gnome you can cut down on the wheel reinvention) > I run KDE and periodically it seems to grab up the sound card with ITS > library, and then XMMS complains that it can't get access to the dsp. > > Is there any way to resolve this problem, or do I just have to live > with it? It seems like even warning beeps can cause this problem. did you compile xmms with artsd support? -munir From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jan 4 23:07:48 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Fwd: Debian window manager config question In-Reply-To: <20020104161416.F12306@wookimus.net> References: <02010414424402.02114@edith> <20020104161416.F12306@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020104220613.D26419@ringworld.org> * Chad C. Walstrom [020104 16:45]: > bash# X -xf86config /root/XF86Config.new If your using woody or unstable, be sure to tell the xfree86 package to not manage your server file if you follow these directions. dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Jan 4 23:15:36 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <200201050256.g052utV20401@RedConcepts.NET> References: <1010122556.7158.10.camel@minime> <15414.2402.84371.949598@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <200201050256.g052utV20401@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <02010422345002.13744@edith> Slightly off topic (streaming MP3 and Ogg), but fun none the less: http://yp.icecast.org/index.html?search=all Nice list of icecast servers. More fun to visit this site instead of the banner ridden RealAudio site. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From Ben at WorksCited.Net Sat Jan 5 00:37:56 2002 From: Ben at WorksCited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Twin Cities Free-Net seeks board members Message-ID: <02010423380407.00700@Romana> Twin Cities Free-Net (http://tcfreenet.org) is yet again at a turning point in its tomultuous history. After a rocky 2001 inspired a very agreeable hosting arrangement , it has lower expenses than ever before, which means it's free to move in new directions. It also has less board members than ever before, due to the poor outlook during that rocky period. The board will be appointing people to four seats, and we need candidates. TCFN itself is a FreeBSD system, but there are Linux opportunities ... for example, one possible scenario is that we stop giving away VT100 terminals and start leasing (and/or giving away) Linux boxes with rock-solid, graphical Web browsers and e-mail clients. (The Free-Net has historically avoided offering free PPP because the IRS frowned upon it, but due to the demise of commercial free PPP services, we might start filling that gap.) In any case, if you're interested in helping to point the direction of a nonprofit organization that aims to bring people together through Internet technologies, send a letter of intent to board@tcfreenet.org. The board will be looking mostly for skills like fundraising, publicity, and management, and experience working with disadvantaged people is a plus as well. Thanks! --Ben (By the way, I got the routing problem fixed -- thanks for the help.) From techy_stuff at lycos.com Sat Jan 5 00:40:33 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working Message-ID: Hi All, I just completed a workstation installation of RedHat 7.2, I tried to telnet from one of my other window machine to the Linux server but got a "Connection Refused" message. Does anyone know why I got this message? Regards From florin at iucha.net Sat Jan 5 01:58:25 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working In-Reply-To: ; from techy_stuff@lycos.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:01:55PM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20020105005814.D30706@iucha.net> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:01:55PM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > Hi All, > > I just completed a workstation installation of RedHat 7.2, I tried to telnet from one of my other window machine to the Linux server but got a "Connection Refused" message. Does anyone know why I got this message? > For a very good reason: telnet is INSECURE. You should not use telnet. Get ssh for windows: search the fine web for putty or terraterm/ssh. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020105/074db2e4/attachment.pgp From churchid at visi.com Sat Jan 5 02:09:15 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools In-Reply-To: <20020104182208.E623E28E53@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: > On Friday 04 January 2002 09:17 am, you wrote: > > We're having some bandwidth questions on our web server and I was > > wondering if anyone had suggestions for tools to use to check this out. > > We want to find out where the data is going...what ports and protocols > > are busiest, where the data is coming from and where it's going etc. > > > Along the same lines, I am looking for a tool that will tell the bandwith > usage per virtual host in apache, if anyone knows something that > does that > too. You probably will need to be using ip-based virtual hosts with unique IP addrs for each virtual host (vs name-based with multiple hosts per IP) to do this. See the last point in this section of the Apache docs here: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/vhosts/name-based.html#namevip Dan From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Sat Jan 5 03:37:10 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: <000301c16216$3efaa220$1e02a8c0@zippy> It's a perspective thing. I guess that Intel would figure that the hardware is the big expense. For a better assessment of the "total cost of ownership" see: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C5098989%2C00.html "Online retailer Amazon.com shaved millions of dollars from its technology costs last quarter by switching to the Linux operating system, a disclosure that could provide some guidance for other companies seeking to cut expenses in a stagnant economy. In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the e-commerce giant said it was able to cut technology expenses by about 25 percent, from $71 million to $54 million. " Could not have said it better myself. Mark Browne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:21 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Although Linux as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the computers, and support and maintenance, he said." I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to let the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then Win2k. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From fertch at mninter.net Sat Jan 5 09:08:38 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working References: <20020105005814.D30706@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3C37051D.E4BBE25@mninter.net> The other thing too is that if you are trying it as root, won't happen. A lot of distros shut off remote logging in as root if telnet is enabled still. Shawn Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:01:55PM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I just completed a workstation installation of RedHat 7.2, I tried to telnet from one of my other window machine to the Linux server but got a "Connection Refused" message. Does anyone know why I got this message? > > > For a very good reason: telnet is INSECURE. > > You should not use telnet. > > Get ssh for windows: search the fine web for putty or terraterm/ssh. > > florin > > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sat Jan 5 10:44:20 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working In-Reply-To: <3C37051D.E4BBE25@mninter.net> References: <20020105005814.D30706@iucha.net> <3C37051D.E4BBE25@mninter.net> Message-ID: <200201051515.g05FFWV08613@RedConcepts.NET> On Saturday 05 January 2002 07:52 am, you wrote: > The other thing too is that if you are trying it as root, won't happen. > A lot of distros shut off remote logging in as root if telnet is enabled > still. > > Shawn That would be true if he actually got a connection, but he is getting a "connection refused" which means that telnetd is not running or that the port is blocked -munir From chrome at real-time.com Sat Jan 5 10:56:47 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom In-Reply-To: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com>; from eng@pinenet.com on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:09:53PM -0600 References: <01C19521.B91F9A40.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20020105102713.B5654@real-time.com> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:09:53PM -0600, Rick Engebretson wrote: > I installed a double boot, Windows 95 and SuSE 7.0 Pro, system at Midwest > Electronics yesterday. I was very surprised by the interest generated. is this the place in that strip mall in St.Cloud? do they still have that hideous LAN party case with the penguin on the front? (I would seriously buy that case and donate it to the LUG, for use at Installfests in place of Gladiator. it's truly vile and hideous in appearance (ugly psychotic plastic penguin makes up the front bezel); but it has a floppy holder in the penguin's belly, and a carrying handle; and it *really* stands out in a crowd. the place has always been closed the few times I've been in the area, tho. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From techy_stuff at lycos.com Sat Jan 5 10:58:21 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Halting the system as a non root user Message-ID: Hi All, My RdHat 7.2 allows me to halt the system (using the halt command) as an ordinary (non root) user. Does anyone know why. I would think this is vry dangerous. From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Jan 5 13:06:41 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.2.20 SCSI problem Message-ID: I just compiled up my chiny new copy of 2.2.20. On bootup everything looks good, all my devices get loaded. From dmesg: (scsi0) found at PCI 0/11/0 (scsi0) Narrow Channel, SCSI ID=7, 16/255 SCBs (scsi0) Downloading sequencer code... 415 instructions downloaded scsi0 : Adaptec AHA274x/284x/294x (EISA/VLB/PCI-Fast SCSI) 5.1.33/3.2.4 scsi : 1 host. Vendor: YAMAHA Model: CRW4416S Rev: 1.0f Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 3, lun 0 (scsi0:0:3:1) Synchronous at 8.0 Mbyte/sec, offset 15. scsi : detected 1 SCSI cdrom total. sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 16x/16x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray however, when I login and do a 'cdrecord -scanbus' I get: cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. Any ideas? I loaded in the module aic7xxx into my kernel config, I'm going to try making it a loadable module and see if that changes things. Any idea what's going on? Things work fine under 2.2.14. -Brian From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Jan 5 16:18:17 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.2.20 SCSI problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020105191145.60BA81776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Saturday 05 January 2002 12:35 pm, Brian wrote: > I just compiled up my chiny new copy of 2.2.20. Well, if I don't ask, I'll still feel stupid, and I won't learn anything, so . . . Given that appear to be much later than 2.2.*, some of them apparently quite stable, why would you want to use a 2.2 series kernel? From austad at marketwatch.com Sat Jan 5 16:26:18 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D2E7@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Actually, it looks like dhcpd is already running, and you are trying to start two copies of it. do a "ps ax | grep dhcpd" and see if it's already going. It's probably being started on boot. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Mike Patchen To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Sent: 1/4/2002 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] dhcpd That didn't work either. What I found out is if I down the interface, bring up dhcpd, then bring the interface back up everything works. This sounds like a lot of trouble just to make changes to the dhcp config. Any ideas?? Thanks Mike Patchen IT Technician City Of Chaska 952-448-2851 x293 mpatchen*at*chaska.net >>> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" 01/04/02 09:59AM >>> Do you have a route to allow broadcast on 192.168.1.255? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Patchen" To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd > Anyone out there able to tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Trying to setup ISC's DHCPd 2.0pl5 on RedHat 7.0. Setup with just a simple subnet as follows: > subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { > range 192.168.1.50 192.168.1.70; } > > When I start dhcpd, I get the following error: > Can't bind to dhcp address: Address already in use exiting. > > The ip address of the machine this is running on is 192.168.1.109, and I have added a route to 255.255.255.255 through eth0 > > >From what I have read in the mini-howto on dhcpd, this should be setup right. Anyone have any ideas?? _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sat Jan 5 16:32:49 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.2.20 SCSI problem In-Reply-To: ; from lxy@cloudnet.com on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 12:35:59PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020105141344.A26147@iucha.net> On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 12:35:59PM -0600, Brian wrote: > I just compiled up my chiny new copy of 2.2.20. On bootup everything > looks good, all my devices get loaded. From dmesg: > > (scsi0) found at PCI 0/11/0 > (scsi0) Narrow Channel, SCSI ID=7, 16/255 SCBs > (scsi0) Downloading sequencer code... 415 instructions downloaded > scsi0 : Adaptec AHA274x/284x/294x (EISA/VLB/PCI-Fast SCSI) 5.1.33/3.2.4 > > scsi : 1 host. > Vendor: YAMAHA Model: CRW4416S Rev: 1.0f > Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 3, lun 0 > (scsi0:0:3:1) Synchronous at 8.0 Mbyte/sec, offset 15. > scsi : detected 1 SCSI cdrom total. > sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 16x/16x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray > > however, when I login and do a 'cdrecord -scanbus' I get: > > cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. > > Any ideas? I loaded in the module aic7xxx into my kernel config, I'm > going to try making it a loadable module and see if that changes > things. Any idea what's going on? Things work fine under 2.2.14. Does it work in any other kernel, or is it new hardware? Can you mount any cd with: mount /dev/scd0 /mnt/ Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Try specifying dev=/dev/something:0:3:1. You've already detected where it's at so a scanbus may be redundant (though nice). > (scsi0:0:3:1) Synchronous at 8.0 Mbyte/sec, offset 15. > scsi : detected 1 SCSI cdrom total. > sr0: scsi3-mmc drive: 16x/16x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray > > however, when I login and do a 'cdrecord -scanbus' I get: > > cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. > > Any ideas? I loaded in the module aic7xxx into my kernel config, I'm > going to try making it a loadable module and see if that changes > things. Any idea what's going on? Things work fine under 2.2.14. > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8N3F9fexLsowstzcRAk0yAKDDgy2I32oraPWoKmki09bH1djAVgCfbMIE NVjZjzF0WuRcaffcKslVuFQ= =0C+5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Sat Jan 5 16:50:11 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] strange crash Message-ID: <20020105220659.GA396@lemongecko.org> I'm running Debian woody on a box that's connected to my cable modem; it does NAT, web and email serving for me. Earlier this afternoon, it suddenly became unresponsive, and when I plugged a monitor into it (I usually use a different machine), it was just scrolling hex numbers that looked like this: [] [] [] [] [] [] All 8-digit numbers; all of them that I could see starting with "c". They were scrolling at a rate of several per second, and I couldn't switch to another console or anything. I had to hit the reset button to reboot, and it's working fine now. Did something in the kernel go south on me? I am running 2.4.17, but have never had any problems with the 2.4 series. There's nothing in the logs that I can find that indicates any problem; the box was working fine and then just suddenly stopped, interrupting my Radio K shoutcast :( . Any ideas? Thanks! Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020105/dfc66d3a/attachment.pgp From phil at rephil.org Sat Jan 5 18:38:43 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] strange crash In-Reply-To: <20020105220659.GA396@lemongecko.org>; from Dan Drake on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:06:59PM -0600 References: <20020105220659.GA396@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020105172244.A26458@rephil.org> On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:06:59PM -0600, Dan Drake wrote: > [] [] [] [] [] [] > > All 8-digit numbers; all of them that I could see starting with "c". > They were scrolling at a rate of several per second, and I couldn't > switch to another console or anything. I had to hit the reset button to > reboot, and it's working fine now. Well, hard to say. You have a little tree: problem /\ / \ hardware software /\ / \ yours someone else's (No, I don't think you need pictures drawn -- I'm just incredibly bored, with vague flu-like symptoms...) I guess I'd start by reading some logs to see if you have any clues. Given the nature of the output, I'm inclined to think you had a kernel failure or hardware trouble. Unplug it from the net and burn it in on the GIMP Mersenne Prime search CPU test. Go play with BIOS settings, just because you can. Use a hair dryer/heat gun to see if you can make it barf under heat. Or just shrug and move along... Cheers, Phil -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Jan 5 19:38:14 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.2.20 SCSI problem In-Reply-To: <20020105141344.A26147@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > cdrecord -scanbus might fail if you don't have scsi generic compiled > (in-kernel or modules) or do not have /dev/sg[0-9]. Ding! We have a winner. Thanks Florin! I just recompiled with generic SCSI support and CDs are once again burning. To answer a couple other questions: Joshua, I tried specifying dev=/dev/scd0,0,3,0 and it gave me the same errors. It appears that if a cdrecord -scanbus doesn't see the drive cdrecord refuses to acknowledge it. I'm using the 2.2.20 kernel because I have major doubts about the stability of the 2.4 tree (still). With the urgent "DON'T USE THIS KERNEL!" and "oh, there's a slight chance of losing your entire partition" I'm not quite ready to completely switch to a 2.4 kernel. Truth is, if it weren't for USB support I'd still be using 2.2.14 on my machine. -Brian From chrome at real-time.com Sat Jan 5 21:29:22 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Halting the system as a non root user In-Reply-To: ; from techy_stuff@lycos.com on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:31:16AM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20020105205735.C5654@real-time.com> On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:31:16AM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > Hi All, > > My RdHat 7.2 allows me to halt the system (using the halt command) as an ordinary (non root) user. Does anyone know why. I would think this is vry dangerous. what distro are you using? does it do this if you're ssh'ed in from another box, or only from the console? or are you talking about using the 'halt' menu option in GDM or Gnome? if you're at the console, it's assumed you have physical access to the machine, in which case you can do anything you please to it anyway; so a lot of distros make it easy for users who are at the console to mount floppies or halt the system; which by default requires root access. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From chrome at real-time.com Sat Jan 5 21:37:29 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.2.20 SCSI problem In-Reply-To: <20020105191145.60BA81776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 01:11:44PM -0600 References: <20020105191145.60BA81776E@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020105210703.D5654@real-time.com> > Given that appear to be much later than 2.2.*, some of them apparently > quite stable, why would you want to use a 2.2 series kernel? because (in spite of Florin's .sig line) some people prefer to not fix something that isn't broken. :) going from 2.2.14 to 2.2.20 is a good move, tho. I've seen some reliability issues with 2.2.14 (especially on non-x86 hardware), and I had a noticeable improvement in responsiveness and increased efficiency when going from 2.2.14 to 2.2.18. there's also a small bit of hassle with upgrading to a 2.4 kernel... some associated packages need new versions. (mount, ppp, binutils, some others). Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From wilson at visi.com Sat Jan 5 22:39:57 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TC Zope/Python Users Group meeting announced Message-ID: Hi everyone, I thought I would follow up my plug at today's TCLUG meeting for the next TCZPUG get together. Here's a copy of the message that went out on the TCZPUG list today. (Apologies to those who are subscribed to both.) The meeting will be informal and all are welcome to come. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hi everyone, No one has emailed me with any reason not to go with the meeting schedule I suggested previously. So let's pull the trigger. Our next meeting is: Tues., Jan. 15 at 7:00 p.m. at Henry Sibley High School Room B213 1897 Delaware Ave Mendota Heights, MN 55118 Scroll to the bottom of the page at http://www.isd197.org/sibley/ for a link to a map. Steven Knight will be giving us a preview of the talk he will be presenting at the Python 10 conference. His paper is entitled "SCons Design and Development" and describes the SCons product he and his colleagues have developed to replace the venerable make tool. More information is available at http://scons.sourceforge.net/ Specific directions to the meeting room: ======================================== Sibley is hosting a basketball game on that night as well. The parking lot should be filling up for the that about the time all of you are showing up. Enter Sibley through the main doors and take an immediate right. Proceed about 50 m and turn right into the science dept. Our meeting room will be the first classroom on your right. Easy as spam! Looking forward to it! -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From eng at pinenet.com Sun Jan 6 14:25:09 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom Message-ID: <01C1965B.8FE7AD80.eng@pinenet.com> No, Midwest Electronics is right off the intersection of 35W and Washington Ave. near the West Bank of the University of Minnesota. I am not giving that business a plug. I'm just trying to get running Linux computers into the showroom. For the avid computer user, Linux is more than ready for prime time. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [SMTP:chrome@real-time.com] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 10:27 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:09:53PM -0600, Rick Engebretson wrote: > I installed a double boot, Windows 95 and SuSE 7.0 Pro, system at Midwest > Electronics yesterday. I was very surprised by the interest generated. is this the place in that strip mall in St.Cloud? do they still have that hideous LAN party case with the penguin on the front? (I would seriously buy that case and donate it to the LUG, for use at Installfests in place of Gladiator. it's truly vile and hideous in appearance (ugly psychotic plastic penguin makes up the front bezel); but it has a floppy holder in the penguin's belly, and a carrying handle; and it *really* stands out in a crowd. the place has always been closed the few times I've been in the area, tho. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eng at pinenet.com Sun Jan 6 14:27:22 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom Message-ID: <01C1965B.9169B9A0.eng@pinenet.com> Yes, they are open Saturdays. The guy that runs the showroom, Ed, seems like a grouch but is really quite nice. The guy to catch is Brian, from the back room (not the Brian in their repair shop). I don't know if he is there on Saturdays. But just introduce yourself to Ed as a member of TCLUG and interested in just getting quality Linux demos before the public. They were doubtful of my effort at first so they only allowed me a (very nice) IBM Pentium 2 with only 64 meg of Ram and only a 4.5 gig HDD temporarily hooked into a nice Dell monitor. But the install went so well and there was so much interest that if they don't expand the Linux demos they are poor businessmen. The money saved on Window$ software will buy most any of their computers. They will need help doing some good installs. Any store will do. If the public has a chance to see Linux, it will fly. Thank you for your interest and good luck. -----Original Message----- From: Munir Nassar [SMTP:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:46 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom On Friday 04 January 2002 01:09 pm, you wrote: > Since Minneapolis (etc.) is quite a trek, I can only hope they can keep > the system alive. Are the open on saturdays? if so i could stop by there every saturday, or every other saturday for general linux maintanance. otherwise if they are open late i could stop by there after work fridays... -munir PS. hey, who doesnt like to hang out in a computer shop? _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Larry.Cable at nwa.com Sun Jan 6 15:14:54 2002 From: Larry.Cable at nwa.com (Larry Cable) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working References: <200201051859.g05IxF510433@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM> I got thru this problem yesterday. Both FTP and TELNET were not installed when I installed REDHAT 7.2. So you need to make sure that "xientd", "telnet" and "wu-ftpd" are installed (rpm -q xientd, rpm -q telnet, rpm -q wu-ftpd) and if not install them. Then go to "/etc/xinetd.d" directory and you'll see files "wu-ftpd" ad "telnet". Edit these files, look at the last line that says "disable yes" and change "yes" to "no". Then reboot. LarryC >Message: 2 >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 07:52:29 -0600 >From: shawn >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Telnet not working >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >The other thing too is that if you are trying it as root, won't happen. A lot of distros shut off remote logging in as root if telnet is enabled still. > >Shawn > >Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:01:55PM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I just completed a workstation installation of RedHat 7.2, I tried to telnet from one of my other window machine to the Linux server but got a "Connection Refused" message. Does anyone know why I got this message? > > > For a very good reason: telnet is INSECURE. > > You should not use telnet. > > Get ssh for windows: search the fine web for putty or terraterm/ssh. > > florin > > -- > > "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." > > 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 > From sgrobe at mn.rr.com Sun Jan 6 15:43:12 2002 From: sgrobe at mn.rr.com (steve) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Halting the system as a non root user References: Message-ID: <3C386156.6010102@mn.rr.com> Below are the findings of an idiot, if they help you great, if not that's what you get for listening to an idiot. Just for sh%ts and giggles I tried this on my Mandrake 8.1 box, it works there too. Looks like halt (/usr/bin/halt) is acutally a link to something called consolehelper that has 755 perms. Consolehelper looks like a jack of all trades in that lots of stuff points to it. halt userdrake shutdown rpminst rpmdrake poweroff Mandrakeupdate logview Looks like consolehelper is there to let regular users run all kinds of stuff as root, stuff like rpminst and userdrake will prompt you for a root password, other stuff like halt will not. Just a way to keep you from having to log in as root I guess. If it really bugs you I suppose you could set the perms on consolehelper to 700 (root owns it) but I have no idea what other stuff it may break. Jimmy Jam wrote: > Hi All, > > My RdHat 7.2 allows me to halt the system (using the halt command) as an ordinary (non root) user. Does anyone know why. I would think this is vry dangerous. > > -- It is much easier to be critical than correct. - Benjamin Disraeli From tanner at real-time.com Sun Jan 6 16:28:55 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working In-Reply-To: <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM>; from Larry.Cable@nwa.com on Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:45:48AM -0600 References: <200201051859.g05IxF510433@sprite.real-time.com> <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM> Message-ID: <20020106155048.O25916@real-time.com> Quoting Larry Cable (Larry.Cable@nwa.com): > I got thru this problem yesterday. Both FTP and TELNET were not installed > when I installed REDHAT 7.2. So you need to make sure that "xientd", "telnet" > and "wu-ftpd" are installed (rpm -q xientd, rpm -q telnet, rpm -q wu-ftpd) and > if not install them. Then go to "/etc/xinetd.d" directory and you'll see > files "wu-ftpd" ad "telnet". Edit these files, look at the last line that > says "disable yes" and change "yes" to "no". Then reboot. I cannot stress how important it is NOT to install telnet. Please make the Internet a safer place and install openssh. It's on the 7.2 CDs and there are clients for every platform. I'd also recommend against wu-ftpd, and install proftpd, if you can't find the RPMs for it I'll be happy to put mine up my members area on tclug. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Sun Jan 6 16:32:29 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working In-Reply-To: <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM>; from Larry.Cable@nwa.com on Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:45:48AM -0600 References: <200201051859.g05IxF510433@sprite.real-time.com> <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM> Message-ID: <20020106160816.A4488@trammell.dyndns.org> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:45:48AM -0600, Larry Cable wrote: > I got thru this problem yesterday. Both FTP and TELNET were not > installed when I installed REDHAT 7.2. So you need to make sure > that "xientd", "telnet" and "wu-ftpd" are installed (rpm -q > xientd, rpm -q telnet, rpm -q wu-ftpd) and if not install them. > Then go to "/etc/xinetd.d" directory and you'll see files "wu-ftpd" > and "telnet". Edit these files, look at the last line that says > "disable yes" and change "yes" to "no". Then reboot. Then make sure you uninstall wu-ftpd, because that bastidge leaks like a sieve. :-) -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org From churchid at visi.com Sun Jan 6 17:48:57 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Halting the system as a non root user In-Reply-To: <3C386156.6010102@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: > Looks like consolehelper is there to let regular users run all kinds of > stuff as root, stuff like rpminst and userdrake will prompt you for a > root password, other stuff like halt will not. Just a way to keep you > from having to log in as root I guess. If it really bugs you I suppose > you could set the perms on consolehelper to 700 (root owns it) but I > have no idea what other stuff it may break. > I'm another amatuer in this area, but on my RedHat 7.1 system, I found it somewhat informative to look at "man consolehelper". It is indeed a wrapper for lots of stuff. But rather than changing the priviledges of the consolehelper wrapper, it appears that the most proper way to do it is by setting up the PAM configuration in /etc/pam.d/ (or /etc/pam.conf on older distros). Figuring that out is beyond the scope of what I have the time (or need) for right now - a quick peek at "man pam" was enough to convince me of that. Still, it may not be that bad to figure out. Maybe someone on the list has already done so and wants to share their experience... Dan From josh at kitten.greentechnologist.org Sun Jan 6 17:53:27 2002 From: josh at kitten.greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom In-Reply-To: <01C1965B.9169B9A0.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So what are they using the machines for? POS or something similar? Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Rick Engebretson wrote: > temporarily hooked into a nice Dell monitor. But the install went so well > and there was so much interest that if they don't expand the Linux demos > they are poor businessmen. The money saved on Window$ software will buy > most any of their computers. They will need help doing some good installs. > > Any store will do. If the public has a chance to see Linux, it will fly. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8ONtzfexLsowstzcRAv+IAJ9yoZrSFuV5nDHtTeCH8GS0EF3dZwCghKz9 gSd5P78ygbapjDo1hb9pR5c= =zCH0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From phil at rephil.org Sun Jan 6 21:53:49 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Ooh -- Debian 3.0 Message-ID: <20020106205626.A7054@rephil.org> This is unofficial, but tantalizing. I recently upgraded my Debian Alpha server to testing, and when I happened to log in from the actual console (instead of ssh) a day or three later, I noticed that the login message said "Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 maynard tty1" I know it's not official yet, but I guess we must be pretty close! (Or someone is very antsy!) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Sun Jan 6 22:55:38 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Ooh -- Debian 3.0 In-Reply-To: <20020106205626.A7054@rephil.org> References: <20020106205626.A7054@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020106220810.J26419@ringworld.org> * Phil Mendelsohn [020106 21:56]: > "Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 maynard tty1" > > I know it's not official yet, but I guess we must be pretty close! > (Or someone is very antsy!) The freeze is happening, one of the (now frozen) packages contained issue and it needed to be frozen :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jan 6 22:56:54 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet not working In-Reply-To: <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM>; from Larry.Cable@nwa.com on Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:45:48AM -0600 References: <200201051859.g05IxF510433@sprite.real-time.com> <3C38550C.85FF3186@NWA.COM> Message-ID: <20020106221542.A22387@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:45:48AM -0600, Larry Cable wrote: > I got thru this problem yesterday. Both FTP and TELNET were not installed when I installed REDHAT 7.2. Problem? I, for one, am overjoyed to hear that RedHat has adopted a policy of not turning every service under the sun on by default. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Jan 6 23:08:15 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:58:13AM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:58:13AM -0600, Scott Dier wrote: > > Except that the fact that w2k server is the only real way to compare to > linux, since it actually has true remote administration capibilities. You can't go on those merits alone, while working at Xerox I used PCAnywhere and VNC to run the daily reboot scripts on about 50 internal servers, running from building to building when they failed to come back up (rebooting daily was the only way to be reasonably sure that they wouldn't randomly crash) These were Windows98, NT 3.51 and NT 4.0 servers. I'm still waiting for 'console on serial port' support for Windows, otherwise you'll be plonking down a few hundred dollars *per server* for one of those KVM switches that allow you to connect to it via TCP/IP. > > -- > Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ > > the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jan 7 00:18:16 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> * Matthew S. Hallacy [020106 23:10]: > and VNC to run the daily reboot scripts on about 50 internal servers, running RDP is more secure than VNC, and doesn't require 'owning' the console. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Jan 7 06:03:26 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:39:12PM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020107054349.K25681@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:39:12PM -0600, Scott Dier wrote: > * Matthew S. Hallacy [020106 23:10]: > > and VNC to run the daily reboot scripts on about 50 internal servers, running > > RDP is more secure than VNC, and doesn't require 'owning' the console. > What's it matter when the system is wide open via MSIE, MSOE, and IIS? From eng at pinenet.com Mon Jan 7 07:28:56 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom Message-ID: <01C19746.7EFD02E0.eng@pinenet.com> If you mean "point of sale," no. They are in a large industrial building and the back is a large warehouse called "Electronics Recovery Center." They are a complete recycler of computer equipment down to the nuts and bolts. I've seen old Cray supercomputers scrapped out there. They ship monitors out by the pallet to be recycled. So they are not at all like "Computer Renaissance." They are in an area often spoken of for development into a technology corridor sited between the U of M and downtown Mpls. Right now they have about a hundred P2 IBMs, etc. They have a huge showroom only half used. They guy that manages the showroom, Ed, is an oldster like me and knew some of the same scientists I knew. In our day, computers were a tool, not a toy, and Linux is the only way to reclaim that function. But like trying anything new, everybody is a skeptic and an obstructionist. "Who ever heard of glass wires?," was a challenge I was confronted with when pushing for "supernetwork" infrastructure twenty years ago. You would be a perfect person to get involved, as a Linux advocate and a political activist. But watch out for the Russian immigrants that own the place, they will want to drink vodka with you. (Uffda!) -----Original Message----- From: Joshua b. Jore [SMTP:josh@kitten.greentechnologist.org] Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 5:19 PM To: 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux installed at Midwest Electronics showroom -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So what are they using the machines for? POS or something similar? Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Rick Engebretson wrote: > temporarily hooked into a nice Dell monitor. But the install went so well > and there was so much interest that if they don't expand the Linux demos > they are poor businessmen. The money saved on Window$ software will buy > most any of their computers. They will need help doing some good installs. > > Any store will do. If the public has a chance to see Linux, it will fly. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8ONtzfexLsowstzcRAv+IAJ9yoZrSFuV5nDHtTeCH8GS0EF3dZwCghKz9 gSd5P78ygbapjDo1hb9pR5c= =zCH0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From petre.scheie at nextelpartners.com Mon Jan 7 09:03:54 2002 From: petre.scheie at nextelpartners.com (Petre Scheie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1010413652.7766.9.camel@gromit> What's RDP? Remote Display Protocol? Is this some company's product? On Sun, 2002-01-06 at 23:39, Scott Dier wrote: > * Matthew S. Hallacy [020106 23:10]: > > and VNC to run the daily reboot scripts on about 50 internal servers, running > > RDP is more secure than VNC, and doesn't require 'owning' the console. > > -- > Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ > > the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From MPatchen at chaska.net Mon Jan 7 10:00:29 2002 From: MPatchen at chaska.net (Mike Patchen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] dhcpd Message-ID: I decided to try my config file on a production server. Loaded up dhcpd from the same RPM, copied my dhcpd.conf file from the non-working machine. Dhcpd started up with no complaints. Guess I just got something really weird going on with my test machine, must be time to blow it away and reinstall. And, no it wasn't already running on that machine. That was my first thought when I was trying to figure it out. Just must have something really fishy with that setup. Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, though. Mike Patchen IT Technician City Of Chaska 952-448-2851 x293 mpatchen*at*chaska.net >>> "Austad, Jay" 01/05/02 01:25PM >>> Actually, it looks like dhcpd is already running, and you are trying to start two copies of it. do a "ps ax | grep dhcpd" and see if it's already going. It's probably being started on boot. From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Mon Jan 7 11:16:15 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! In-Reply-To: References: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020107155628.GE3984@fandre.com> Hmmm, /me is interested in what's being used out there. How about a web poll? Vote now!!! http://www.mn-linux.org On Thu, 03 Jan 2002, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > | HP Laserjet 1200SE (same as HP-1200 according to HP) > | - HP PCL 6, HP PCL 5e, PostScript? Level 2 emulation > | - 72mb memory > | - I have a PPD from HP.SourceForge (if that helps) > > Does that mean the printer actually speaks PS? If so, you shouldn't need > to do much filtering at all. > > I used to use LPRng + samba for printing. It worked well enough, but some > of the filters were crappy. Every now and then they would barf on some > image. (Text was always fine though.) > > After playing with cups a bit, I really feel that it is the way to go for > UNIX printing. I really like that once I got things setup on the server, > my unix printing clients just had to have > > BrowsePoll myprintserver.home.private:631 > > added to cupsd.conf. And my /etc/printcap (for non cups aware apps) is > just: > > ljet6: > > Nice and simple. The unix clients can print. :) > > One of the best parts of cups is the web interface for setting up your > printer. Just point your browser to http://printserver:631, login, and off > you go. You should be able to setup eveything you need (including the PPD) > from here. > > The cups related stuff I have installed is: > cupsys, cupsys-bsd, cupsys-pstoraster, > cupsomatic-ppd (cups printer ppd's from LinuxPrinting.org) > cupsys-client, libcupsys2 > > Those are the debian packages. For slackware, everything is prob in one > tarball. (except for the ppd's) > > And for the windows clients, you want to do something like: > > [global] > printcap name = /etc/printcap.cups > printer admin = user1 user2 > lpq command = lpstat -o%p > lprm command = cancel %p-%j > queuepause command = disable %p > queueresume command = enable %p > > [printers] > comment = All Printers > path = /tmp > create mask = 0700 > printable = Yes > browseable = No > > [ljet6] > path = /tmp > read only = No > create mask = 0700 > guest ok = Yes > printable = Yes > printer name = ljet6 > oplocks = No > share modes = No > > [print$] > path = /home/samba/print > read only = No > guest ok = Yes > hosts allow = 192.168.1. > > All the printing howto's really overcomplicate things. :) > > You can see that I have a print$ share. This took a bit of figuring, but I > got samba to share the windows drivers for my printer so Windows 2000 > clients will just install the farking driver, and not prompt me about it. > It's like, slick. > > Bottom line: cups very good, lprng is ok, and lpd is, well, it's lpd. > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org > "I MIGHT be DANGEROUS!" --The Tick > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jan 7 11:30:49 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <1010413652.7766.9.camel@gromit> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> <1010413652.7766.9.camel@gromit> Message-ID: <20020107101916.N26419@ringworld.org> * Petre Scheie [020107 09:05]: > What's RDP? Remote Display Protocol? Is this some company's product? RDP == remote display protocol some tech that msft licenced from citrix. all w2k servers allow 2 concurrent remote administrator-class connections. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From bbaptist at iexposure.com Mon Jan 7 11:38:12 2002 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Bandwidth Tools In-Reply-To: <20020104182208.E623E28E53@thursday.freeze.com> References: <1010157467.13532.11.camel@lis.llewellyn.com> <20020104182208.E623E28E53@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <200201071631.g07GVR832703@destiny.iexposure.com> On Friday 04 January 2002 12:22 pm, you wrote: > Along the same lines, I am looking for a tool that will tell the bandwith > usage per virtual host in apache, if anyone knows something that does that > too. I found something that does exactly what you are talking about. It can be found here: http://www.snert.com/Software/mod_watch/ Hope that helps you. -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ if u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jan 7 12:41:04 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BASH tip: examining shell options Message-ID: <20020107105857.B5468@wookimus.net> Here's a quick BASH tip for everyone who uses it. This involves the difference between interactive shells and non-interactive. Have you ever had scp(1) fail on you because of a command you put in your .bash_profile? Let's say you called uptime(1) or who(1). bash$ scp me@myhost:myfile . 10:47am up 55 days, 16:14, 31 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00 bash$ ls myfile ls: myfile: No such file or directory OK. Here's the problem. scp(1) reads your .bash_profile and barfs on any stdout that shouldn't normally be there. In my profile, I have lines such as: test [ -f /etc/profile ] && source /etc/profile test [ -f ~/.bashrc ] && source ~/.bashrc In my .bashrc, I've called uptime(1): uptime Luckily, there's a simple fix. You can examine the options that the bash shell has set by default, or that you have set manually, by examining the $- variable. # example ~/.bashrc do_interactive() { uptime who mesg y } case $- in *i*) do_interactive ;; esac # ... your standard noninteractive rc stuff follows You can use this test at any time: .bash{_profile, _login,rc}, .profile, etc. Make sure you read up on BASH in the manpages and understand the order of the resource control files for the shell when it's executed. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Mon Jan 7 13:36:39 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] BASH tip: examining shell options In-Reply-To: <20020107105857.B5468@wookimus.net> References: <20020107105857.B5468@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020107184516.GG3984@fandre.com> PS1 is also a common variable to check. if [ -z $PS1 ] # no prompt? then # non-interactive ... else # interactive ... fi On Mon, 07 Jan 2002, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Here's a quick BASH tip for everyone who uses it. This involves the difference > between interactive shells and non-interactive. Have you ever had scp(1) fail > on you because of a command you put in your .bash_profile? Let's say you > called uptime(1) or who(1). > > bash$ scp me@myhost:myfile . > 10:47am up 55 days, 16:14, 31 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00 > bash$ ls myfile > ls: myfile: No such file or directory > > OK. Here's the problem. scp(1) reads your .bash_profile and barfs on any > stdout that shouldn't normally be there. In my profile, I have lines such as: > > test [ -f /etc/profile ] && source /etc/profile > test [ -f ~/.bashrc ] && source ~/.bashrc > > In my .bashrc, I've called uptime(1): > > uptime > > Luckily, there's a simple fix. You can examine the options that the bash shell > has set by default, or that you have set manually, by examining the $- > variable. > > # example ~/.bashrc > do_interactive() { > uptime > who > mesg y > } > > case $- in > *i*) > do_interactive > ;; > esac > > # ... your standard noninteractive rc stuff follows > > You can use this test at any time: .bash{_profile, _login,rc}, .profile, etc. > Make sure you read up on BASH in the manpages and understand the order of the > resource control files for the shell when it's executed. > > -- > Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie > http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr > Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jan 7 17:07:00 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:39:12PM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > * Matthew S. Hallacy [020106 23:10]: > > and VNC to run the daily reboot scripts on about 50 internal servers, > > running > > RDP is more secure than VNC, and doesn't require 'owning' the console. Isn't RDP commerical, ie $$$$/box? I'm not slamming commerical or pay/per/box, just curious. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jan 7 17:53:16 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020107172331.Q26419@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [020107 17:09]: > Isn't RDP commerical, ie $$$$/box? Nope, you get 2 free RDP connections per windows 2000 server, as long as the users using it are "Administrator" group users. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jan 7 19:01:58 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020107172331.Q26419@ringworld.org>; from dieman+tclug@ringworld.org on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:23:31PM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> <20020107172331.Q26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020107181900.M21131@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > * Bob Tanner [020107 17:09]: > > Isn't RDP commerical, ie $$$$/box? > > Nope, you get 2 free RDP connections per windows 2000 server, as long as > the users using it are "Administrator" group users. > So the only "down side" is this is Win2K specific thingie? Won't work in Win9X, right? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Jan 7 22:45:02 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020107181900.M21131@real-time.com> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> <20020107172331.Q26419@ringworld.org> <20020107181900.M21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020107212150.R26419@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [020107 19:05]: > So the only "down side" is this is Win2K specific thingie? > > Won't work in Win9X, right? Yeah, on the upside, you can use this in total cost of ownership stuff to justify why linux is better in some cases. :) WinXP has this, but locks out the person on the console when someone logs in, it sucks. Win2k Server really is the way to go for even desktops, with the suckage part being the cost, but the unsuckage part being that it saves our admins lots of time and since we are a edu we got it for cheap. People still use Win9x? poor bastards. :| -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Jan 8 00:31:40 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? Message-ID: <20020107232813.E1413@wookimus.net> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:19:16AM -0600, Scott Dier wrote: > * Petre Scheie [020107 09:05]: > > What's RDP? Remote Display Protocol? Is this some company's product? > > RDP == remote display protocol > some tech that msft licenced from citrix. Incorrect, IIRC. Citrix sold Microsoft the alterations to NT 3.5 they had made to create Citrix WinFrame. M$ decided they liked what Citrix did and forced them to sell some of the technology to incorporate it into M$ Terminal Server. Citrix basically agreed but under the condition that the actual network protocol used to talk to the server were to be kept proprietary. I.e. the ICA protocol, which I believe stands for Independent Client Architecture, or some such buzzword. ICA is certainly better in more ways than one, but the most convincing argument is that it is truely independent of the client OS. You can run a 16 bit Citrix client on Dr. DOS, MSDOS, UNIX (insert flavor/architecture), Linux, Windows, QNX (I believe), and yes, even Macintosh. Would you like to push out Windows apps to every workstation in your office? Hate relying on Wincrap for workstation OS's. Would you like to go to a discless client (ala windows-borgified X-terms)? Go with Citrix. Want to be stuck to Windows and Micro$oft forever, stick with WinXP. > all w2k servers allow 2 concurrent remote administrator-class connections. Wow, they're being more gracious than I'd ever expect from the conglomo-giant. I'm not acidic toward Micro$oft. Really, I'm not! ****bbuuuuuuzzzzzzzzz*** Holy CRAP! I've been buzzed by a flying pig as big as a house!!! -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Tue Jan 8 14:27:03 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! References: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C3B34AB.C51039C8@mn.mediaone.net> Thanks for everyone's help. You gave me enough direction to get going again. I got the printer working as direct connect to Linux. Couple of minor problems but I'm convinced I could have gotten them sorted out. However, the remote interface continued to be a problem. After several days of effort, unfortunately, I've decided to give up and put the printer back on my Win2k machine. Lots of reasons, - Apparently Win2k changed the rules on printer interaction (vs. Win98) so lots of docs (and components) aren't quite right - HP's install is so tight with desktop Win2K that I think they forgot about other types of installs (literally, attach printer, run install CD, go to other Win2K machine and print). - Slackware's current Samba probably doesn't work with Win2k remote print (based on news lists comments) - Several components which might help (ex. CUPS) don't seem to have current packages for Slack - The printer is too new. Its not on common driver lists yet (ex. not listed by Mandrake yet) - I'm getting burned out with Slack. I really like it for my file server. Clean, simple, just works. But changing any little thing requires a big learning process. And Patrick's dropped his forums, making it harder to get newbie support. I need to try Mandrake or Redhad for a while. But the biggest reason is that I've realized I'm just not far enough along in Linux yet. There's just too many concepts I haven't quite internalized and too many skills I haven't quite gotten comfortable with. I suspect that if I try this again in six months it will go much smoother. Not fair for me to eat up your time or this bandwidth just because I'm trying to go too far too fast. So thanks again for your help. Even though I didn't get my printer working, it was still a good learning experience. -- Doug Douglas Mosman wrote: > Please point a bewildered & befuddled newbie in the right direction > > I would really appreciate it if someone could "narrow" the field for me > here.I have now got my Linux file server working and would like to add a > print server to the system. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jan 8 15:44:46 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! References: <3C33DA24.AF0E4E17@mn.mediaone.net> <3C3B34AB.C51039C8@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <00ff01c19887$17b5ec90$3028680a@tgt.com> This is, unfortunately, why Windows still reigns supreme on the desktop and is competing in the server market in spite of its many inferiorities. Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Mosman" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Print Server Setup - Help! > Thanks for everyone's help. You gave me enough direction to get going again. I > got the printer working as direct connect to Linux. Couple of minor problems > but I'm convinced I could have gotten them sorted out. > > However, the remote interface continued to be a problem. After several days of > effort, unfortunately, I've decided to give up and put the printer back on my > Win2k machine. > > Lots of reasons, > - Apparently Win2k changed the rules on printer interaction (vs. Win98) so lots > of docs (and components) aren't quite right > - HP's install is so tight with desktop Win2K that I think they forgot about > other types of installs (literally, attach printer, run install CD, go to other > Win2K machine and print). > - Slackware's current Samba probably doesn't work with Win2k remote print (based > on news lists comments) > - Several components which might help (ex. CUPS) don't seem to have current > packages for Slack > - The printer is too new. Its not on common driver lists yet (ex. not listed by > Mandrake yet) > - I'm getting burned out with Slack. I really like it for my file server. > Clean, simple, just works. But changing any little thing requires a big > learning process. And Patrick's dropped his forums, making it harder to get > newbie support. I need to try Mandrake or Redhad for a while. > > But the biggest reason is that I've realized I'm just not far enough along in > Linux yet. There's just too many concepts I haven't quite internalized and too > many skills I haven't quite gotten comfortable with. I suspect that if I try > this again in six months it will go much smoother. Not fair for me to eat up > your time or this bandwidth just because I'm trying to go too far too fast. > > So thanks again for your help. Even though I didn't get my printer working, it > was still a good learning experience. > > -- Doug > > Douglas Mosman wrote: > > > Please point a bewildered & befuddled newbie in the right direction > > > > I would really appreciate it if someone could "narrow" the field for me > > here.I have now got my Linux file server working and would like to add a > > print server to the system. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Tue Jan 8 20:15:44 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? References: <20020107232813.E1413@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <001401c198a4$dc367720$1e02a8c0@zippy> More active anti-Linux FUD activity from the Microsoft camp: http://www.internetweek.com/story/INW20020107S0004 Mark Browne From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Jan 9 00:39:43 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] starting over :( In-Reply-To: <3BDF39E7.1010104@slava.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Lorry wrote: > Not only am I a student, but I live in a studio apartment. I'd have to > sell my kitchen table and keep a second computer on the floor. ;) Does that bother you? Stacking up a bunch of Pentium computers can make a nice table. Ahh... fond memories of college... -Brian From foeclan at visi.com Wed Jan 9 08:35:18 2002 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: Old messages (was Re: [TCLUG] starting over :() References: Message-ID: <3C3C4EEF.5090708@visi.com> What's up with the posts from 10/31/01 that keep popping up? List a little slow? ;) Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com Brian wrote: >On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Lorry wrote: > >>Not only am I a student, but I live in a studio apartment. I'd have to >>sell my kitchen table and keep a second computer on the floor. ;) >> > >Does that bother you? Stacking up a bunch of Pentium computers can make a >nice table. Ahh... fond memories of college... > >-Brian > > From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed Jan 9 09:56:06 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr Message-ID: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> I have a small home network behind a firewall, so small that I haven't thought it worth having a name server. My desktop machine runs sendmail (I know, I should probably change to qmail or postfix, but that seems like a lot of effort for low payoff on a single-user machine) and keeps putting into my system logs a record that a gethostbyaddr call on its own (unroutable) address has failed. I'm assuming I don't need to worry about this. Is there any way to kill the error message (or should I just let it happen and filter it out of my log-watcher)? Thanks, r From whisper at bitstream.net Wed Jan 9 10:02:56 2002 From: whisper at bitstream.net (whisper) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: Question on desktop infrastructure Message-ID: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> I have a semi off-topic question for the group, mainly geared towards people working in large envrionments (>10,000 desktops). I currently work at a large corporation where we have ~50,000 desktops. I'm wondering what other people on this list who work at companies like this do for administration of these workstations, such as software rollout, re-imaging, etc. To be honest, we are mainly a Netware shop, with some NT, and only small amount of rogue machines running Linux. Most of the software is rolled out through login scripts, and not through SMS or ZENWorks, although we are working desperately to get to that point, its just an ugly ride. Also, how have people gotten Linux in the doors at companies like this. We have very leary managers who still equate free software with cheap software, no matter how much time I tell them otherwise. I'm currently lobbying to get some distributions looked at to help preform specific tasks, such as simple data entry, and then branch out from there. Getting it into server positions is probably not going to happen, unless it will play _extremely_ well with AD and NDS. Any other suggestions for how to get it brought in? Any ideas/suggestions people can offer would be greatly appreciated, especially for how corporations are dealing with the software rollout and machine re-imaging. Thanks. From kbullock at ringworld.org Wed Jan 9 10:30:50 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: "network is unreachable"? References: <02010210310700.01776@Romana> Message-ID: <3C3C5CFB.5080301@ringworld.org> Ben Stallings wrote: > I'm ignorant enough about this that, although I know there shouldn't > be so many entries, I don't know which ones don't belong. Help? > Thanks! --Ben You're right -- the problem is that you've got two gateways. Do you really need a gateway on your local network? If you don't have an internet connection from the ethernet, you probably don't need to have a gateway. -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Wed Jan 9 10:46:05 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: Question on desktop infrastructure In-Reply-To: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> References: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20020109161000.GF2422@host5.arndt.real-time.com> On Wed, 09 Jan 2002, whisper wrote: > > Also, how have people gotten Linux in the doors at companies like this. We > have very leary managers who still equate free software with cheap > software, no matter how much time I tell them otherwise. Just don't tell them. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jan 9 10:49:56 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay Message-ID: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay server for a company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K messages per minute during the work day (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 hour work day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be sending 12 times that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery really isnt a big deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, and is handling just fine. Does anyone have any suggestions for a complete setup for this? We would like to keep the number of servers to a minimum, and the servers would be dedicated to SMTP relay, not really running anything else. We are not opposed to running comercial software, right now we use PTMA (from Port25), but liceneing for it is $9000 per box, and wouldlike something a bit cheaper. Also, the other obvious problem is bandwith. Right now I belive we have 2 T1's set up for this, and I know we will need more down the road. Any advice would be great. Jay From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 9 10:54:21 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: Question on desktop infrastructure In-Reply-To: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net>; from whisper on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:21:56PM +0000 References: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20020109102703.C21835@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:21:56PM +0000, whisper wrote: > Also, how have people gotten Linux in the doors at companies like this. We > have very leary managers who still equate free software with cheap software, > no matter how much time I tell them otherwise. I'm currently lobbying to > get some distributions looked at to help preform specific tasks, such as > simple data entry, and then branch out from there. Getting it into server > positions is probably not going to happen, unless it will play _extremely_ > well with AD and NDS. Any other suggestions for how to get it brought in? Not a specific suggestion, but a general one: Don't approach the situation as if you are a Linux advocate, but rather that you think you have stumbled on a way to save the company time/money. Set up a scenario where you can go to someone and say, "Look, let's try this on the {1|5|50|whatever} workstations, because if it works it would be a way to save {$x boatloads}. If it doesn't work, we haven't lost anything." Just make sure to think it through before setting up a rigged bet. But when it works, the managers involved get to take at least part of the credit for the success. *That's* what it takes to get momentum going. It's not loyalty to M$ that has them where they are, it's fear of having *no* system that drives much of this, and no one really knowing where else to turn. That and business people authorizing IS purchases, when they aren't qualified -- but that goes back to the 50's -- DEC called their machines PDP (Programmed Data Processor) rather than computer, because people could order something called a PDP and get a purchase order, but "computer" meant "IBM." :) It's the same game -- "diplomacy is the art of letting other people get _your_ way." -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jan 9 11:01:31 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <1010592258.11379.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 09:07, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > > I have a small home network behind a firewall, so small that I haven't > thought it worth having a name server. My desktop machine runs > sendmail (I know, I should probably change to qmail or postfix, but > that seems like a lot of effort for low payoff on a single-user > machine) and keeps putting into my system logs a record that a > gethostbyaddr call on its own (unroutable) address has failed. make an entry in your hosts file for the machine itself 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost 192.168.1.55 this.machine.name this # make the IP match eth0 address # and this.machine.name match what you set the machines hostname too > I'm assuming I don't need to worry about this. Is there any way to > kill the error message (or should I just let it happen and filter it > out of my log-watcher)? > > Thanks, > r > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020109/bf84ba58/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jan 9 11:18:51 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: (OFFTOPIC) Re: Old messages (was Re: [TCLUG] starting over :() In-Reply-To: <3C3C4EEF.5090708@visi.com>; from foeclan@visi.com on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:08:47AM -0600 References: <3C3C4EEF.5090708@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020109101746.C13654@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:08:47AM -0600, Michael Vieths wrote: > What's up with the posts from 10/31/01 that keep popping up? List a little > slow? ;) Yes. Bob, the host of this email list, is trying to "reinject" the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML)[1] emails into Mailman[2], the email list server software that we are using. Mailman, unfortunately, has a klunky archive system called pipermail, the input of which seems only to be through the smtp->mailman alias(5). Because of this limitation, Bob is resending all of the LKML archives to the sendmail server through some perl-script-fu that some of the list members cooked up. That is what is slowing the server down. Sendmail isn't very selective as to where it stuffs received emails. The queue an email gets sent to may not be touched for some time, as you can tell. Any estimate, Bob, on when the LKML reinjection may be finished? I haven't been paying close attention as usual. As a side note, I'd bed that the pipermail stuff can be offloaded to another machine if the interface and programs can be accessed w/o going through the email gateway interface (smtp server). I'll try to dig into the Python source and see what I can see. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jan 9 11:26:18 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com>; from goldman@htc.honeywell.com on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:07:16AM -0600 References: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020109103414.D13654@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:07:16AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I have a small home network behind a firewall, so small that I haven't > thought it worth having a name server. My desktop machine runs sendmail (I > know, I should probably change to qmail or postfix, but that seems like a lot > of effort for low payoff on a single-user machine) and keeps putting into my > system logs a record that a gethostbyaddr call on its own (unroutable) > address has failed. Do you have your FQDN for your local host in /etc/hosts? If you do, you shouldn't have problems. Otherwise, consult the Sendmail manual and shut off DNS lookups. Look for a "Definition" string. With regards to a name server, if you have a small enough network, you really don't need one. "In the olden days" people distributed an /etc/hosts file to all the machines on the network. This doesn't scale too well, but it works great in small environments. As far as running this or that email server, it largely doesn't matter. You're behind a firewall. You should be able to use your ISP's SMTP server as a "SmartHost" and configure your local Sendmail as a "null client". As a null client, it'll defer DNS lookups to the upstream relay agent. Another term for a null client is a Mail Sending Agent (MSA). Mail Delivery Agent (MDA) applies to the local mailer, delivering email to local user accounts. The Mail Transport Agent (MTA) refers to an MSA+MDA. If all you need is a MSA, look into ssmtp[1]. It's a very small, simple MSA that has no local delivery capabilities and does not implement a local SMTP server. It doesn't open up a local port 25 to accept connections at all. It simply acts as a replacement for the basic sendmail commands to send email. It may not be the most elegant solution, but it works well. > I'm assuming I don't need to worry about this. Is there any way to kill the > error message (or should I just let it happen and filter it out of my > log-watcher)? You could do that as well. REFERENCES 1. http://packages.debian.org/stable/mail/ssmtp.html -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jan 9 11:32:16 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay server for > a company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K messages per > minute during the work day (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 > hour work day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be > sending 12 times that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery > really isnt a big deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, > and is handling just fine. Please tell me these guys aren't spammers? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Wed Jan 9 11:51:39 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: <20020109103414.D13654@wookimus.net> References: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <20020109103414.D13654@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <15420.31990.251796.347295@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Thanks to Ben and Chad for helpful suggestions along these lines: >>>>> "CCW" == Chad C Walstrom writes: CCW> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:07:16AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman CCW> wrote: >> I have a small home network behind a firewall, so small that I >> haven't thought it worth having a name server. My desktop >> machine runs sendmail (I know, I should probably change to >> qmail or postfix, but that seems like a lot of effort for low >> payoff on a single-user machine) and keeps putting into my >> system logs a record that a gethostbyaddr call on its own >> (unroutable) address has failed. CCW> Do you have your FQDN for your local host in /etc/hosts? If CCW> you do, you shouldn't have problems. Otherwise, consult the CCW> Sendmail manual and shut off DNS lookups. Look for a CCW> "Definition" string. Sorry. I should have pointed out that I have a small network behind a firewall, and the firewall serves up the DNS addresses to the machines behind the firewall using DHCP. So I'm not sure how to use a hosts file to keep track of addresses. I hate to go to the trouble of setting up a DNS server for what seems like a trivial net. Is there an alternative? CCW> With regards to a name server, if you have a small enough CCW> network, you really don't need one. "In the olden days" CCW> people distributed an /etc/hosts file to all the machines on CCW> the network. This doesn't scale too well, but it works great CCW> in small environments. CCW> As far as running this or that email server, it largely CCW> doesn't matter. You're behind a firewall. You should be CCW> able to use your ISP's SMTP server as a "SmartHost" and CCW> configure your local Sendmail as a "null client". As a null CCW> client, it'll defer DNS lookups to the upstream relay agent. CCW> Another term for a null client is a Mail Sending Agent (MSA). CCW> Mail Delivery Agent (MDA) applies to the local mailer, CCW> delivering email to local user accounts. The Mail Transport CCW> Agent (MTA) refers to an MSA+MDA. CCW> If all you need is a MSA, look into ssmtp[1]. It's a very CCW> small, simple MSA that has no local delivery capabilities and CCW> does not implement a local SMTP server. It doesn't open up a CCW> local port 25 to accept connections at all. It simply acts CCW> as a replacement for the basic sendmail commands to send CCW> email. It may not be the most elegant solution, but it works CCW> well. But don't I want local delivery capabilities so that, for example, my scripts can send me email about how they worked? You're right --- my sendmail just does two things: 1. routes all the email for the various script outputs to me and 2. uses a smart host for any addresses not on my box. Thanks, R From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jan 9 12:10:13 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com>; from goldman@htc.honeywell.com on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:07:16AM -0600 References: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <20020109104821.F9190@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:07:16AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I have a small home network behind a firewall, so small that I haven't > thought it worth having a name server. My desktop machine runs > sendmail (I know, I should probably change to qmail or postfix, but > that seems like a lot of effort for low payoff on a single-user > machine) and keeps putting into my system logs a record that a > gethostbyaddr call on its own (unroutable) address has failed. Add a line to /etc/hosts: 192.168.1.1 myhostname -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jan 9 12:10:46 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: Question on desktop infrastructure In-Reply-To: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net>; from whisper@bitstream.net on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:21:56PM +0000 References: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <20020109105158.E13654@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:21:56PM +0000, whisper wrote: > I have a semi off-topic question for the group, mainly geared towards people > working in large envrionments (>10,000 desktops). Honestly, I would re-evaluate how important it is to have a full workstation for each of these desktops. Categorize your users into groups. For high-end users (i.e. CAD/Graphics designers, engineers, mathematicians, etc.), let them keep their workstations. For the rest of the crew, you could easily get away with diskless thin-clients. I'm a large proponent of the thin-client solutions, including Citrix MetaFrame XP. What is Citrix? Citrix is to Windows as X is to UNIX. Remember how you can run a remote X desktop with this command: bash$ X -query or bash$ X -broadcast or bash$ X -indirect Citrix is the most flexible and most portable of the display client/server applications for remote Windows desktops. For rollouts and reimaging, use something like GhostDisk or the Nortan Systems Manager for pushing out software. There's plenty of Windows products out there. > Also, how have people gotten Linux in the doors at companies like this. We > have very leary managers who still equate free software with cheap software, > no matter how much time I tell them otherwise. And yet, many companies run on Sendmail, Bind, and DHCPD... Don't worry about changing your manager's minds so much as worrying about getting the job done. When you think of proposals, think in terms of features. Don't mention the name of the software you're going to use, just highlight the benefits. * Source code available for alteration/customization * Stable, production environment-tested code * Large user-base * Estimated implementation * Short turn-around for bug-fixes/"hotfixes" Then, when they ask how much it'll cost to implement, lay the bomb: * Hardware: * Software: $0 Of course, they'll ask for the name of the software and how you'll manage to get it for free. That's when you give them the references sheet, etc. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 9 12:52:01 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0035147F4@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Well, about a year ago, I set up a similar system using qmail, and a QMQP load balancing patch that I made which you can get at qmail.org. However, I've since switched to a cluster of postfix boxes behind a load balancing unit. Postfix gives me better performance, I can get better stats from it, it's easier to configure and use, supports ESMTP pipelining (qmail doesn't), has adaptive rate limiting based on how fast the remote server is responding (it will ramp up or back off depending), and generally just makes my life a whole lot easier. I started testing on linux, but I've switched to freebsd because of linux's FD_SET() limitation. I was only able to run about 508 concurrent processes before it would choke. With BSD, I can easily get over 2000 concurrent processes (you need to recompile the kernel with higher NMBCLUSTERS and MAXUSERS and set some sysctl variables). Though, if you have a fast connection, you won't see more than about 700 concurrent processes Right now, I have 5 boxes in the cluster, and the load balancer is set to "least connections" for it's load balancing method. The box which relays mail into it opens 10 threads, so each mailserver gets 2 connections. Make sure you get fast disks, I just stripe my mail spool (not mission critical mail). qmail touches the disk about 3 times more than postfix will, so I highly suggest using postfix, and turn on softupdates or async for your spool (don't use async if you're worried about losing mail in the event of a crash). Now, if this is for a spammer, please forget all that I have just told you. :) Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:natecars@real-time.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 10:54 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay > > > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > > I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay > server for > > a company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K > messages per > > minute during the work day (a total of about 1 million > messages per 8 > > hour work day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be > > sending 12 times that. As this is outgoing mail only, > local delivery > > really isnt a big deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, > > and is handling just fine. > > Please tell me these guys aren't spammers? > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Jan 9 13:34:54 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <200201091709.g09H91u20659@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Don't get me wrong, but this sounds like a huge spam mailer! Why would any company need to mail 12 million emails per day? They can't possibly be personalized with specific information for individuals. That sounds like a huge undertaking...just curious what it's use is? On Wednesday 09 January 2002 10:21 am, you wrote: > (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 hour work > day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be sending 12 times > that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery really isnt a big > deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, and is handling just > fine. From sextus at visi.com Wed Jan 9 13:35:24 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com>; from Jay Kline on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:21:38AM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020109111109.A25738@visi.com> ON Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:21:38AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay server for a > company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K messages per minute > during the work day (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 hour work > day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be sending 12 times > that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery really isnt a big deal, > we have one incoming server set up for that, and is handling just fine. Can you lose messages? Can any of the messages be delayed for up to 24 hours? I imagine N Postfix FreeBSD / Linux servers with a bunch of fast SCSI disks and appropriate FS settings would be a good start. -- Michael From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jan 9 14:22:56 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> No, absolutely not. (Though this is not the first time we have been accused of that) Because of non-disclosure agreements, I am not allowed to say exactly what we do, but rest assured, that every piece of mail being sent is expected by the recipiant. Jay On Wednesday 09 January 2002 10:53 am, you wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > > I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay server for > > a company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K messages per > > minute during the work day (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 > > hour work day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be > > sending 12 times that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery > > really isnt a big deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, > > and is handling just fine. > > Please tell me these guys aren't spammers? From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jan 9 14:24:52 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: <15420.31990.251796.347295@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> References: <15420.23716.924403.298044@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> <20020109103414.D13654@wookimus.net> <15420.31990.251796.347295@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <1010599981.11379.5.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 11:25, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > > Thanks to Ben and Chad for helpful suggestions along these lines: You're welcome. > Sorry. I should have pointed out that I have a small network behind a > firewall, and the firewall serves up the DNS addresses to the machines > behind the firewall using DHCP. So I'm not sure how to use a hosts > file to keep track of addresses. I hate to go to the trouble of > setting up a DNS server for what seems like a trivial net. Is there > an alternative? Yes, the /etc/hosts file. Add what we told you to the /etc/hosts file of the mailserver and all will be well. The IP you use is the actual address of the machine on your LAN. > You're right --- my sendmail just does two things: > > 1. routes all the email for the various script outputs to me and > > 2. uses a smart host for any addresses not on my box. Then my above advice will suit you perfectly. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020109/a27eee77/attachment.pgp From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 9 14:37:33 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wednesday 09 January 2002 10:21 am, Jay Kline wrote: > I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay server for a > company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K messages per minute > during the work day (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 hour work > day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be sending 12 times > that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery really isnt a big > deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, and is handling just > fine. > > Does anyone have any suggestions for a complete setup for this? We would > like to keep the number of servers to a minimum, and the servers would be > dedicated to SMTP relay, not really running anything else. We are not > opposed to running comercial software, right now we use PTMA (from Port25), > but liceneing for it is $9000 per box, and wouldlike something a bit > cheaper. Also, the other obvious problem is bandwith. Right now I belive > we have 2 T1's set up for this, and I know we will need more down the road. > > Any advice would be great. > > > Jay The canonical answer for high-load servers is BSD, which appears to perform better under high loads than Linux, although a mosix cluster (see http://www.mosix.org) might be a better, if a bit bleeding-edge choice, particularly if the process is going to be processor-bound, rather than I/O bound, as that scales up in an obvious sort of way -- just add on more nodes if things start to slow down. You're probably going to want SCSI and some sort of RAID -- some of the performance data I've seen for RAID-5 suggests that you really don't take much of a performance hit vs. RAID-1 as one would intuitively think. The real issue, of course, is going to be the processing of the mail, as pretty much any sub-modern-or-better PC is going to be able to keep up with a T1 or two, just in terms of brute-force input and output. My entirely unexpert guess is that pretty much any high-performance *nix box is going to have little or no trouble keeping up with the kind of load you're talking about, particularly if you're using postfix, which has the reputation of giving better performance than sendmail. From Mary at DesignerDoors.com Wed Jan 9 14:38:00 2002 From: Mary at DesignerDoors.com (Mary Ayala) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? Message-ID: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E53781F1@DDMAIL> In my copy of Infomation Week, there is a notice of a move called Nothing So Strange that will be debuting Jan. 13 at the Slamdance 20002 Film Festival in Park CIty, Utah. The first seen of the movie involves Bill Gates being assassinated. From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 9 15:22:04 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: (OFFTOPIC) Re: Old messages (was Re: [TCLUG] starting over :() In-Reply-To: <20020109101746.C13654@wookimus.net>; from chewie@wookimus.net on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:17:46AM -0600 References: <3C3C4EEF.5090708@visi.com> <20020109101746.C13654@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020109144435.W21131@real-time.com> Quoting Chad C. Walstrom (chewie@wookimus.net): > As a side note, I'd bed that the pipermail stuff can be offloaded to another > machine if the interface and programs can be accessed w/o going through the > email gateway interface (smtp server). I'll try to dig into the Python source > and see what I can see. Many posts from me on how to make things better, they all involve coding. :-) Search lkml, injection and you'll see them. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 9 15:24:39 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: Question on desktop infrastructure In-Reply-To: <20020109161000.GF2422@host5.arndt.real-time.com>; from cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:10:00AM -0600 References: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> <20020109161000.GF2422@host5.arndt.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020109145346.Y21131@real-time.com> Quoting Clay Fandre (cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org): > > Also, how have people gotten Linux in the doors at companies like this. We > > have very leary managers who still equate free software with cheap > > software, no matter how much time I tell them otherwise. > > Just don't tell them. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for > permission. Hey! That is my line! Show this to your managers. It has been a GREAT help for us here at Real Time. http://www.cyber.com.au/cyber/about/linux_vs_windows_pricing_comparison.pdf Especially for cost conscience managers. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sextus at visi.com Wed Jan 9 16:24:36 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com>; from Jay Kline on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:37:55AM -0600 References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> ON Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:37:55AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > No, absolutely not. (Though this is not the first time we have been accused > of that) Because of non-disclosure agreements, I am not allowed to say > exactly what we do, but rest assured, that every piece of mail being sent is > expected by the recipiant. So millions of people (or fewer people with very large inboxes) will know exactly "what you do", but the people you hit up for free advice on "how to do it" need to be kept in the dark? Is this a government contract by chance? -- Michael From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 9 16:39:24 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: (OT: was Re: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay) In-Reply-To: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com>; from Jay Kline on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:37:55AM -0600 References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020109143933.A24977@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:37:55AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > No, absolutely not. (Though this is not the first time we have been accused > of that) Because of non-disclosure agreements, I am not allowed to say > exactly what we do, but rest assured, that every piece of mail being sent is > expected by the recipiant. I'm relieved to hear that you're not spamming -- hey, it's your karma anyway -- but don't use the phrase "rest assured" to allay fears or quell suspicion. Why? It is a phrase that has come out of the Governor's Orifice often enough to have lost any value. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jan 9 16:39:57 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109111109.A25738@visi.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109111109.A25738@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020109204204.AA19628E2C@thursday.freeze.com> On Wednesday 09 January 2002 11:11 am, you wrote: > Can you lose messages? a certain tollerance for lost messages is ok- we would normally get a message from those people saying they didnt get the message, and we would have to resend to those people specificly. Obvously if this happens to too many people the system for resending would be more work than its worth. > Can any of the messages be delayed for up to 24 hours? no, we figure the most about of time a message should wait (assuming the reciver's mail server is accepting connections) is 3-4 hours. Much longer and the point gets lost. From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 9 16:40:39 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:51 2005 Subject: Old messages (was Re: [TCLUG] starting over :() In-Reply-To: <3C3C4EEF.5090708@visi.com>; from foeclan@visi.com on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:08:47AM -0600 References: <3C3C4EEF.5090708@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020109144321.V21131@real-time.com> Quoting Michael Vieths (foeclan@visi.com): > What's up with the posts from 10/31/01 that keep popping up? List a > little slow? ;) We are getting down into messages that where queued during the lkml injection. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sextus at visi.com Wed Jan 9 17:10:04 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from Joel Rosenberg on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 01:48:48PM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> ON Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 01:48:48PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > http://www.mosix.org) might be a better, if a bit bleeding-edge choice, > particularly if the process is going to be processor-bound, rather than I/O > bound, as that scales up in an obvious sort of way -- just add on more nodes > if things start to slow down. You're probably going to want SCSI and some > sort of RAID -- some of the performance data I've seen for RAID-5 suggests > that you really don't take much of a performance hit vs. RAID-1 as one would > intuitively think. It'll be disk I/O bound. If reliability isn't a requirement, he can do striping (RAID-0) or multiple queues over multiple disks. For RAID I would look at mirrored stripe sets (RAID 1+0) using software RAID. > My entirely unexpert guess is that pretty much any high-performance *nix box > is going to have little or no trouble keeping up with the kind of load you're > talking about, particularly if you're using postfix, which has the reputation > of giving better performance than sendmail. Anything, in my experience, is better than sendmail. qmail and postfix are two. -- Michael From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jan 9 17:30:53 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020109223947.D380C28E2B@thursday.freeze.com> > So millions of people (or fewer people with very large inboxes) will know > exactly "what you do", but the people you hit up for free advice on "how to > do it" need to be kept in the dark? Is this a government contract by > chance? Sometimes thats the way the world works... no one is required to give advice, I am only requesting some help. Jay From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 9 20:18:31 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) Message-ID: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> Just in case you are not subscribed to the tclug-jobs list: $200US bounty for ntop-cvs for Redhat 6.2 http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-jobs/2002-January/000090.html I dislike doing these "cheap plugs", but if a lugger can get the cash, that would be great. What I forgot to mention in the posting is that the patch will be GPL'd and contributed (of course) back to the ntop community. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Jan 9 20:30:51 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gcombust In-Reply-To: <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> Message-ID: I am using gcombust 1.47 to burn cd's. Does anyone know if there is a way to tell it to make multiple copies without going back and hitting "combust" again? (yeah...i'm a lazy bastard) I don't see anything to toggle, and the limited amount of doc I found doesn't make any mention of making multiple copies. Thanks in advance, Justin From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jan 9 20:36:22 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109204204.AA19628E2C@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > > Can any of the messages be delayed for up to 24 hours? > no, we figure the most about of time a message should wait (assuming the > reciver's mail server is accepting connections) is 3-4 hours. Much longer > and the point gets lost. Stock quotes, neh? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Jan 9 20:45:18 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E53781F1@DDMAIL> References: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E53781F1@DDMAIL> Message-ID: <44555.198.74.20.75.1010619876.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> > In my copy of Infomation Week, there is a notice of a move called > Nothing So Strange that will be debuting Jan. 13 at the Slamdance 20002 > Film Festival in Park CIty, Utah. The first seen of the movie involves > Bill Gates being assassinated. I am not usually one to to bitch about this, but it is my opinion that you should have picked a better subject line as this has nothing to do with Linux or with Windows 2000. Nor has it anything to do with the TCO of either. And in consideration that this has no direct relation to linux an (OT) would have been appreciated as well. -munir From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jan 9 20:55:33 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> On Wednesday 09 January 2002 04:16 pm, you wrote: > It'll be disk I/O bound. If reliability isn't a requirement, he can do > striping (RAID-0) or multiple queues over multiple disks. For RAID I would > look at mirrored stripe sets (RAID 1+0) using software RAID. > Hmm.. assuming the sever "never crashes" (heh) wouldnt performance be much better using a ramdisk for the spools? I know this breaks the SMTP protocol (which actuly says messages must be written to disk).. but would this work? Jay From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 9 21:29:02 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020109231305.GB29157@iucha.net> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 04:02:07PM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > ON Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:37:55AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > > No, absolutely not. (Though this is not the first time we have been accused > > of that) Because of non-disclosure agreements, I am not allowed to say > > exactly what we do, but rest assured, that every piece of mail being sent is > > expected by the recipiant. > > So millions of people (or fewer people with very large inboxes) will know > exactly "what you do", but the people you hit up for free advice on "how to do > it" need to be kept in the dark? Is this a government contract by chance? Jay, please add Michael to your distribution list. I want to stay in the dark. Thanks, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020109/6b7466b7/attachment.pgp From poverby at megsinet.net Wed Jan 9 22:25:22 2002 From: poverby at megsinet.net (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated Message-ID: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> I find it intersting that everyone seems to go out of their way to note "how complicated" Linux is. If we really want people to use Linux maybe we ought to quite trying to scare them off. I built a couple of PC's just before christmas. One for me and one for my daughter. She designs web sites and uses photoshop so she had to have windows which cost me more than the PC. I decided on win98 cause I'm just not ready for XP. For myself I had Redhat 7.2 laying around so why not. When I installed windows I had to install drivers for both the graphics card and the ethernet card. It certainly wasn't automatic. Windows got its registry screwed up because of an attached zip drive so it couldn't locate the drivers. (It was looking in the wrong place) I'm certain any windows "newbie" would not have known what to do. The ethernet card had separate folders for each winOS so windows couldn't find those either. Windows never even suggested I might want to set up my network connection although IE tried to help me set up a dial connection even though I have no modem. Silly me, how could I be so stupid about clicking the wrong option. And in the end my new 1.4 gig cpu was running like a pentium 66. Finally discoverd that a sound mixer application was being started automatically and was hogging all the system resources. I just end task on boot cause I haven't bothered to find out where windows buried the startup for it. I still have't got the CD player to work under windows. Guess I never will. As for Linux. It did ask me to verify my mouse and keyboard and monitor and video card. I suppose those extra four clicks were a tremendous nusance. I also had to fill in an IP address, gateway, and DNS address.This is a toughone since I had to get it from the network admin (that's me). I also had to enter that pesky root password. Typing its not so bad but you got to think one up. Too many old fashions and you may never know what you ended up with. Then they gave me this incredible array of CHOICES. workstation, server, laptop, custom. Whats a custom anyway? And of course I had to insert a second CD and click OK. The nerve of those people giving me more stuff than they can fit on a single CD. So I went off to wrap some presents and before I can get back my son, he's 8, wants to know what the password is so he can check out the new games. So I go back to wrapping presents. He plays the games. Of course I skipped the part about the four hours I spent trying to get the partition table set up correctly so both windows and Linux were satisfied. But that is the point. Linux gets tough when you try to do things windows won't allow you to do. Try installing windows over Linux for a dual boot system. Hope you don't waste too much of your time. Oh and I almost forgot. Linux never asked me to type in that 5000 digit license code. What a relief? From jamie at getsetnet.net Wed Jan 9 22:33:40 2002 From: jamie at getsetnet.net (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debug equiv for Linux Message-ID: I am reading some tutorials on assembly programming, and there are many places in the texts that require me to run the command "debug" in dos. I am reading these tutorials on a Linux system though. Are there any commands in Linux that will do the same thing the 'debug' command does in DOS? The texts are very useful: they are very basic and easy to understand so I really want to finish them. But, if anyone knows of soom good assembly tutorials with examples on a Linux system, please let me know! -- "It's pretty hard to stop a man who eats his toast every morning." From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 10 00:28:16 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debug equiv for Linux In-Reply-To: ; from Jamie Ostrowski on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:08:58PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020109225321.A1092@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:08:58PM -0600, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > But, if anyone knows of soom good assembly tutorials with examples > on a Linux system, please let me know! http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Assembly-HOWTO/index.html As far as debugging goes, there's gdb, but there's also a bunch of other debuggers available, with various "environments." (DDD, etc...) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 10 00:29:00 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated In-Reply-To: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com>; from Paul Overby on Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 03:08:56PM -0600 References: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <20020109225515.B1092@rephil.org> No, Linux ain't that complicated, but you're kinda preaching to the choir! -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Jan 10 00:35:27 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debug equiv for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02010922593800.01541@edith> On Wednesday 09 January 2002 21:08, you wrote: > I am reading some tutorials on assembly programming, and there are > many places in the texts that require me to run the command "debug" in > dos. I am reading these tutorials on a Linux system though. Are there any > commands in Linux that will do the same thing the 'debug' command does in > DOS? The texts are very useful: they are very basic and easy to understand > so I really want to finish them. But, if anyone knows of soom good > assembly tutorials with examples on a Linux system, please let me know! Try this link: http://linuxassembly.org/ Looked kinda like what you are asking. As to the debug question, it looks like the site has some tools that would be the equivalent to what you find with the old Borland asm tools. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From wilson at visi.com Thu Jan 10 03:15:43 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast Message-ID: Hey everyone, Proud Dad here. I just wanted to announce that Wilson Child 2.0 was released today. No major features were added in the new version, but the product was delivered much more quickly this time around. Pictures and details at http://www.qwerk.org/reese/ -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From sextus at visi.com Thu Jan 10 03:26:41 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com>; from Jay Kline on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:54:25PM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com> ON Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:54:25PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > > Hmm.. assuming the sever "never crashes" (heh) wouldnt performance be much > better using a ramdisk for the spools? I know this breaks the SMTP protocol > (which actuly says messages must be written to disk).. but would this work? A RAM-disk approach should work, but it may or may not be significantly faster than conventional disks. It's certainly unorthodox. -- Michael From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Thu Jan 10 03:28:51 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated In-Reply-To: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> References: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <200201100655.g0A6t4u11387@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Tuesday 08 January 2002 03:08 pm, you wrote: > I find it intersting that everyone seems to go out of their way to note > "how complicated" Linux is. Come on now...not everyone. I think it's pretty easy if you have the right distro. > If we really want people to use Linux maybe we ought to quite trying to > scare them off. I have yet to scare anyone off...unless you consider my looks :) > She designs web sites and uses photoshop so she had to have windows > which cost me more than the PC. I decided > on win98 cause I'm just not ready for XP. For myself I had Redhat 7.2 laying around so why not. Now...Redhat 7.2...that will scare off newbies. The menu layout is horrible! Don't get me wrong, it's a powerful distro with many good points. I actually like Redhat on the corporate desktop but not at home. Redmond, Elx, and soon Xandros all look very nice for newbies. > Oh and I almost forgot. Linux never asked me to type in that 5000 digit > license code. What a relief? Amen brother! Enjoy you new OS and be kind to your daughter when the BSOD pops up and she isn't using a journaling file system. And lookout for the next new virus around the corner. < many snips missing> From eng at pinenet.com Thu Jan 10 03:30:15 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated Message-ID: <01C19973.5C18C320.eng@pinenet.com> GREAT story. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Overby [SMTP:poverby@megsinet.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:09 PM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated I find it intersting that everyone seems to go out of their way to note "how complicated" Linux is. If we really want people to use Linux maybe we ought to quite trying to scare them off. I built a couple of PC's just before christmas. One for me and one for my daughter. She designs web sites and uses photoshop so she had to have windows which cost me more than the PC. I decided on win98 cause I'm just not ready for XP. For myself I had Redhat 7.2 laying around so why not. When I installed windows I had to install drivers for both the graphics card and the ethernet card. It certainly wasn't automatic. Windows got its registry screwed up because of an attached zip drive so it couldn't locate the drivers. (It was looking in the wrong place) I'm certain any windows "newbie" would not have known what to do. The ethernet card had separate folders for each winOS so windows couldn't find those either. Windows never even suggested I might want to set up my network connection although IE tried to help me set up a dial connection even though I have no modem. Silly me, how could I be so stupid about clicking the wrong option. And in the end my new 1.4 gig cpu was running like a pentium 66. Finally discoverd that a sound mixer application was being started automatically and was hogging all the system resources. I just end task on boot cause I haven't bothered to find out where windows buried the startup for it. I still have't got the CD player to work under windows. Guess I never will. As for Linux. It did ask me to verify my mouse and keyboard and monitor and video card. I suppose those extra four clicks were a tremendous nusance. I also had to fill in an IP address, gateway, and DNS address.This is a toughone since I had to get it from the network admin (that's me). I also had to enter that pesky root password. Typing its not so bad but you got to think one up. Too many old fashions and you may never know what you ended up with. Then they gave me this incredible array of CHOICES. workstation, server, laptop, custom. Whats a custom anyway? And of course I had to insert a second CD and click OK. The nerve of those people giving me more stuff than they can fit on a single CD. So I went off to wrap some presents and before I can get back my son, he's 8, wants to know what the password is so he can check out the new games. So I go back to wrapping presents. He plays the games. Of course I skipped the part about the four hours I spent trying to get the partition table set up correctly so both windows and Linux were satisfied. But that is the point. Linux gets tough when you try to do things windows won't allow you to do. Try installing windows over Linux for a dual boot system. Hope you don't waste too much of your time. Oh and I almost forgot. Linux never asked me to type in that 5000 digit license code. What a relief? _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Thu Jan 10 08:55:59 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> <20020109223947.D380C28E2B@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <003e01c199da$93f96580$47646496@dart> > So millions of people (or fewer people with very large inboxes) will know > exactly "what you do", but the people you hit up for free advice on "how to > do it" need to be kept in the dark? Is this a government contract by > chance? I didn't check the archives, but I think once upon a time he let slip that it was time sensitive stock information... From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Jan 10 08:56:35 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated In-Reply-To: <200201100655.g0A6t4u11387@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> <200201100655.g0A6t4u11387@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <200201101329.g0ADT3u26545@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> > Windows 98 cannot really be compared to Redhat 7.2. Or at least it > shouldn't. It's several years old while Redhat 7.2 is only months old. A > better comparison would be Win2k and the new Linux distros. Thanks for the reminder. I guess over the years I've developed the perception that the OS its self doesn't really change. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Jan 10 08:59:06 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? References: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E53781F1@DDMAIL> Message-ID: <3C3D98C4.A4009D69@attbroadband.com> Mary Ayala wrote: COOL ! > In my copy of Infomation Week, there is a notice of a move called Nothing So > Strange that will be debuting Jan. 13 at the Slamdance 20002 Film Festival > in Park CIty, Utah. The first seen of the movie involves Bill Gates being > assassinated. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Jan 10 09:02:35 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020110134813.GD29157@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:32:24AM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Proud Dad here. I just wanted to announce that Wilson Child 2.0 was > released today. No major features were added in the new version, but the > product was delivered much more quickly this time around. Pictures and > details at http://www.qwerk.org/reese/ Congratulations! florin PS. One more reason to (not)? attend the beer meeting. -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/446688a9/attachment.pgp From dsherman at real-time.com Thu Jan 10 09:09:05 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010670700.3012.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Congratulations, Tim! Dave Sherman On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 00:32, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Proud Dad here. I just wanted to announce that Wilson Child 2.0 was > released today. No major features were added in the new version, but the > product was delivered much more quickly this time around. Pictures and > details at http://www.qwerk.org/reese/ > > -Tim -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From nate at techie.com Thu Jan 10 09:09:45 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com>; from sextus@visi.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:52:54AM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:52:54AM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > ON Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:54:25PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > > Hmm.. assuming the sever "never crashes" (heh) wouldnt performance > > be much better using a ramdisk for the spools? I know this breaks > > the SMTP protocol (which actuly says messages must be written to > > disk).. but would this work? > > A RAM-disk approach should work, but it may or may not be significantly > faster than conventional disks. It's certainly unorthodox. Don't be silly. You should be able to tune the OS's disk caching enough that it's as fast as a RAM disk and not as dangerous. "Imagine running this on a ramdisk" is just like saying, "imagine a beowulf of these." Nate From eng at pinenet.com Thu Jan 10 10:57:43 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill Message-ID: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> With all the GHz CPUs filling the market, I think a note of caution is due. Does anybody really need such a CPU?? Check your CPU load meter and you will likely find a large excess capacity. These frequencies are impossible to keep durable in the electromagnetic spectrum. When I was active in the field, research was directed at optical coupling for transistor switching. Capacitance, inductance, and signal reflection do not impair optical switching at such frequencies. Perhaps this is employed in these new CPUs, I don't know. The onboard power supply challenges for fast, power hungry CPUs are enormous. DC current switching amplifiers must go from inactive to tens of amps in nanoseconds. The switching voltage regulator and tank amplifier is very vulnerable to failure. A far more stable approach to increasing computing power is using the motherboard as simply a backplane bus, with a slow stable CPU simply managing the bus. Most new add-on cards are ready for this re-invented s ystem design (a throwback to the mainframe). Video cards, sound cards, controller cards, etc. all have their own Bios and CPU and command interface and system memory access. Since Unix was based on such a parallel tasking environment and Windows was not, perhaps the Linux community has an even larger hardware advantage than is often discussed. From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jan 10 10:59:54 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net>; from nate@techie.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:01:06AM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020110092227.B16305@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:01:06AM -0600, Nate Straz wrote: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:52:54AM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > > A RAM-disk approach should work, but it may or may not be significantly > > faster than conventional disks. It's certainly unorthodox. > > Don't be silly. You should be able to tune the OS's disk caching enough > that it's as fast as a RAM disk and not as dangerous. "Imagine running > this on a ramdisk" is just like saying, "imagine a beowulf of these." Yup. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from the Win3.x era: Wow... virtual memory! Now I can make a REALLY BIG ramdisk! -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu Jan 10 11:14:19 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: <1010599981.11379.5.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <1010599981.11379.5.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <15421.46125.975289.599869@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "BL" == Ben Lutgens writes: BL> On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 11:25, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> Sorry. I should have pointed out that I have a small network >> behind a firewall, and the firewall serves up the DNS addresses >> to the machines behind the firewall using DHCP. So I'm not >> sure how to use a hosts file to keep track of addresses. I >> hate to go to the trouble of setting up a DNS server for what >> seems like a trivial net. Is there an alternative? BL> Yes, the /etc/hosts file. Add what we told you to the BL> /etc/hosts file of the mailserver and all will be well. The IP BL> you use is the actual address of the machine on your LAN. So is there some way I can use if-up or some such mechanism to automagically echo the dhcp-issued ip address into /etc/hosts? Otherwise, since my IP address isn't fixed, there's no way to know a priori what address should go into /etc/hosts, is there? R From josh at greentechnologist.org Thu Jan 10 11:16:19 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <3C3D98C4.A4009D69@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Gates being assassinated? That's hardly cool. Gates is a monopolizer which (even in our sometime backwards country) is hardly a criminal offense. Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Paul Overby wrote: > Mary Ayala wrote: > > COOL ! > > > In my copy of Infomation Week, there is a notice of a move called Nothing So > > Strange that will be debuting Jan. 13 at the Slamdance 20002 Film Festival > > in Park CIty, Utah. The first seen of the movie involves Bill Gates being > > assassinated. > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8PbY6fexLsowstzcRAiSbAKCR4DVV5EhzHxH299IPftrpPN0r2wCfQcch FGU3m1ZO/8aX9GV9GnRTVWk= =haUV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jan 10 11:22:33 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Tim Wilson wrote: > Proud Dad here. I just wanted to announce that Wilson Child 2.0 was > released today. No major features were added in the new version, but the > product was delivered much more quickly this time around. Pictures and > details at http://www.qwerk.org/reese/ Congrats! Another Linux-running rugrat.. it was funny, when Bob brought his new baby into the office the other day, he was holding her, and she looked up at the S/390 poster in the office Carl and I are in, and went "ooooohhh!" That's one kid that'll go to school, sit down in front of a computer, and go "Hey, what's this 'Windows' thing???" -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Thu Jan 10 11:25:16 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated In-Reply-To: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> References: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: <15421.46453.44296.790038@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> This was a cool story and, I don't mean to let the wind out of your sails, but you must remember two things: 1. Most people don't build PCs. 2. Most people don't install windows. They get windows pre-installed on their computers, direct from the manufacturer. And that IS easier than installing Linux (or windows). Ease of install comparisons really aren't relevant to most computer users. Cheers, R From Ben at WorksCited.Net Thu Jan 10 12:38:29 2002 From: Ben at WorksCited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake update -- alternatives? Message-ID: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> Last night I tried to use Mandrake 8.1's software update feature to download and install a security update to the kernel. I found the program to be very unsatisfactory: it didn't tell me the names of the files it was downloading or give any indication of how long the download would take. Then the files didn't wind up downloading all the way but the program tried to install them anyway, so I wound up with half old kernel modules and half new kernel modules and the machine wouldn't boot. When I got it up and running with the emergency floppy disk, there was no PPP support so I couldn't try the download again! And of course the installer's update mode doesn't fix the kernel, so I had to reinstall. :-< What alternatives are there to this Software Update program for Mandrake users? I know I can find rpms on rpmfind.net, but only if I know what they're called, and I like the idea of the software letting me know when updates are available... but if I can't trust it, I won't use it. Suggestions? --Ben From sextus at visi.com Thu Jan 10 12:58:15 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net>; from Nate Straz on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:01:06AM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> ON Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:01:06AM -0600, Nate Straz wrote: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:52:54AM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > > A RAM-disk approach should work, but it may or may not be significantly > > faster than conventional disks. It's certainly unorthodox. > > Don't be silly. You should be able to tune the OS's disk caching enough > that it's as fast as a RAM disk and not as dangerous. "Imagine running > this on a ramdisk" is just like saying, "imagine a beowulf of these." It's a mail queue. I wouldn't expect the system to hit the files often enough for the cache to make a difference, and so I'm not sure your objection applies. -- Michael From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jan 10 13:28:33 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beermeeting Tonight 1/10 Message-ID: Tonight's beermeeting will be at the Green Mill Brewing CO. on Hamline and Grand in St. Paul. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See ya there! Jacque From dacross at nwc.edu Thu Jan 10 13:43:06 2002 From: dacross at nwc.edu (David Cross) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wednesday 09 January 2002 05:37 pm, you wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > > > Can any of the messages be delayed for up to 24 hours? > > > > no, we figure the most about of time a message should wait (assuming the > > reciver's mail server is accepting connections) is 3-4 hours. Much > > longer and the point gets lost. > > Stock quotes, neh? Either that or news alerts, weather alerts, etc. From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jan 10 13:49:44 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill In-Reply-To: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> References: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20020110174824.7B82528E2C@thursday.freeze.com> On Thursday 10 January 2002 09:13 am, you wrote: > With all the GHz CPUs filling the market, I think a note of caution is due. > Does anybody really need such a CPU?? Check your CPU load meter and you > will likely find a large excess capacity. We have four servers running at 85% CPU / 95% Mem for close to 15 hours a day- these are Dual 1.3GHz processor machines.. so I would have to say "yes," at least I do. Jay From fertch at mninter.net Thu Jan 10 14:03:38 2002 From: fertch at mninter.net (shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <3C3DD6BF.8E092A34@mninter.net> Jay Kline wrote: > No, absolutely not. (Though this is not the first time we have been accused > of that) Because of non-disclosure agreements, I am not allowed to say > exactly what we do, but rest assured, that every piece of mail being sent is > expected by the recipiant. > > Jay Heh, to me I "expect" to get volumes of junk mail as well from companies selling names and addresses, not to mention the blanket spamming. It's not necessarily liked or wanted, but unfortunately it's expected. "Non-disclosure" agreements preventing you from saying "exactly" what you do? First I've heard of that. I've only heard that you can't say who your it for. Shawn From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Jan 10 14:09:40 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] users don't install windows Message-ID: <200201101811.g0AIBGu03858@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> You mean there are windows users who have never had to re-install their OS? That's amazing. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Jan 10 14:15:49 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sorry Josh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201101815.g0AIFJu04779@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I really have nothing against Bill Gates and I do abhor violence but there is a certain amount of symbolism here that can't go unnoticed but I think that discussion would be better left to a beer meeting than a mailing list. On Thursday 10 January 2002 09:41 am, you wrote: > Gates being assassinated? That's hardly cool. Gates is a monopolizer which > (even in our sometime backwards country) is hardly a criminal offense. > > Joshua b. Jore > Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 > http://www.greentechnologist.org > Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From eng at pinenet.com Thu Jan 10 14:31:08 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast Message-ID: <01C199D3.6188F7C0.eng@pinenet.com> God Bless. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Wilson [SMTP:wilson@visi.com] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:32 AM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast Hey everyone, Proud Dad here. I just wanted to announce that Wilson Child 2.0 was released today. No major features were added in the new version, but the product was delivered much more quickly this time around. Pictures and details at http://www.qwerk.org/reese/ -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Thu Jan 10 14:32:31 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake update -- alternatives? In-Reply-To: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> Message-ID: <20020110184652.GB18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> This makes me appreciate apt-get that much more. ;-) Anyone try apt-rpm yet? http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/scripts/apt-rpm.html On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Ben Stallings wrote: > Last night I tried to use Mandrake 8.1's software update feature to download > and install a security update to the kernel. I found the program to be very > unsatisfactory: it didn't tell me the names of the files it was downloading > or give any indication of how long the download would take. Then the files > didn't wind up downloading all the way but the program tried to install them > anyway, so I wound up with half old kernel modules and half new kernel > modules and the machine wouldn't boot. When I got it up and running with the > emergency floppy disk, there was no PPP support so I couldn't try the > download again! And of course the installer's update mode doesn't fix the > kernel, so I had to reinstall. :-< > > What alternatives are there to this Software Update program for Mandrake > users? I know I can find rpms on rpmfind.net, but only if I know what > they're called, and I like the idea of the software letting me know when > updates are available... but if I can't trust it, I won't use it. > Suggestions? --Ben > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Thu Jan 10 15:04:54 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] users don't install windows References: <200201101811.g0AIBGu03858@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C3DFCD7.242BF596@securecomputing.com> Nope, I've seen them. They just sit for 12 minutes while their machine boots and click through a few hundred warning messages. But hey, everything still works okay after that... so why worry? *grin* Paul Overby wrote: > > You mean there are windows users who have never had to re-install their OS? > > That's amazing. > > -- > Paul Overby > xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 10 15:22:37 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <3C3DD6BF.8E092A34@mninter.net>; from shawn on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:00:31PM -0600 References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <3C3DD6BF.8E092A34@mninter.net> Message-ID: <20020110144723.A8125@rephil.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:00:31PM -0600, shawn wrote: > "Non-disclosure" agreements preventing you from saying "exactly" > what you do? First I've heard of that. I've only heard that you > can't say who your it for. Well, contracts can be drawn up for any scenario people can imagine. I've heard of this one, though it's not that common in these parts. On the other hand, my Dad was contracted (forget if it was his consulting firm or through DEC Software Services) to write some software for Los Alamos Nat'l Labs years ago, which was basically some sort of inventory database. Even though he had a "Q" clearance (fairly high -- though I don't know the whole classified system), they never did (or would or could) tell him what the "items" his database had to keep track of were. So, there's non-disclosure where you can't tell, and there's non-disclosure where you don't even _know_! -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From DCsk8r34 at aol.com Thu Jan 10 17:17:47 2002 From: DCsk8r34 at aol.com (DCsk8r34@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java directory Message-ID: <63.4bc741a.296f7156@aol.com> Hello, Im trying to install Java ICQ for linux and when I edit the install file it is looking for a java directory that I dont have. Ive asked others and they have it. Is there a place where I can get this file? Thanks Alot. -Derek -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/16e51d9a/attachment.htm From dsherman at real-time.com Thu Jan 10 17:27:02 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake update -- alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20020110184652.GB18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <20020110184652.GB18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1010704426.2107.6.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Actually, you're not supposed to use Mandrake's Software Update to update your kernel. This has been addressed several times on the Mandrake discussion lists. You could use the command-line tools urpmi (to install/upgrade) and urpme (to uninstall). The Software Update is really just a GUI front-end for those anyway. If you run Software Update from a terminal, you can watch the urpmi messages scrolling by, including all the packages that are being downloaded and installed. Dave Sherman > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Ben Stallings wrote: > > > Last night I tried to use Mandrake 8.1's software update feature to download > > and install a security update to the kernel. I found the program to be very > > unsatisfactory: it didn't tell me the names of the files it was downloading > > or give any indication of how long the download would take. Then the files > > didn't wind up downloading all the way but the program tried to install them > > anyway, so I wound up with half old kernel modules and half new kernel > > modules and the machine wouldn't boot. When I got it up and running with the > > emergency floppy disk, there was no PPP support so I couldn't try the > > download again! And of course the installer's update mode doesn't fix the > > kernel, so I had to reinstall. :-< > > > > What alternatives are there to this Software Update program for Mandrake > > users? I know I can find rpms on rpmfind.net, but only if I know what > > they're called, and I like the idea of the software letting me know when > > updates are available... but if I can't trust it, I won't use it. > > Suggestions? --Ben -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From fish at slava.net Thu Jan 10 17:33:08 2002 From: fish at slava.net (Lorry Lee Strother) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux Message-ID: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net> here t'is. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Csci8801proposal-2.sxw Type: application/octet-stream Size: 15116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/45d56bbf/Csci8801proposal-2.obj From cgahlon at citilink.com Thu Jan 10 17:44:28 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake update -- alternatives? References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> Message-ID: <3C3E11C4.38F2AE6C@citilink.com> Download the ones you need manualy and then install them with: rpm --upgrade packagename.rpm I usually get them from here: ftp://ftp.cse.buffalo.edu/pub/Linux/mandrake/updates/8.1/RPMS/ There is also a local UofM mirror too but it seems to rather well used! :-) ftp://ftp.software.umn.edu/pub/linux/mandrake/ Most of the mirrors have the updates. Christopher Gahlon Ben Stallings wrote: > > Last night I tried to use Mandrake 8.1's software update feature to download > and install a security update to the kernel. I found the program to be very > unsatisfactory: it didn't tell me the names of the files it was downloading > or give any indication of how long the download would take. Then the files > didn't wind up downloading all the way but the program tried to install them > anyway, so I wound up with half old kernel modules and half new kernel > modules and the machine wouldn't boot. When I got it up and running with the > emergency floppy disk, there was no PPP support so I couldn't try the > download again! And of course the installer's update mode doesn't fix the > kernel, so I had to reinstall. :-< > > What alternatives are there to this Software Update program for Mandrake > users? I know I can find rpms on rpmfind.net, but only if I know what > they're called, and I like the idea of the software letting me know when > updates are available... but if I can't trust it, I won't use it. > Suggestions? --Ben > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jan 10 19:16:05 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020110194432.17E3928E50@thursday.freeze.com> I just did a test with a base install of Postfix from a mandrake RPM (I know this is not the most efficient setup). When the spools were on fixed disk, I was able to send about 11 messages per second. When I switched to a ramdisk for the spools, performace jumped to about 67 messages per second. So there was an obvoius performance increase here, though I am just using a standard home PC class IDE hard drive (Maxtor 52049H4). What do you think the difference would be with better drives? Jay On Thursday 10 January 2002 11:05 am, you wrote: > ON Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:01:06AM -0600, Nate Straz wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:52:54AM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > > > A RAM-disk approach should work, but it may or may not be significantly > > > faster than conventional disks. It's certainly unorthodox. > > > > Don't be silly. You should be able to tune the OS's disk caching enough > > that it's as fast as a RAM disk and not as dangerous. "Imagine running > > this on a ramdisk" is just like saying, "imagine a beowulf of these." > > It's a mail queue. I wouldn't expect the system to hit the files often > enough for the cache to make a difference, and so I'm not sure your > objection applies. From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Jan 10 19:35:04 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net>; from fish@slava.net on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:50:53PM -0600 References: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net> Message-ID: <20020110185241.D9277@wookimus.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:50:53PM -0600, Lorry Lee Strother wrote: > here t'is. Why are you sending the list Star Office Documents? -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From jacque at fruitioninc.com Thu Jan 10 19:37:40 2002 From: jacque at fruitioninc.com (Jacqueline Urick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beermeeting Tonight 1/10 Message-ID: Tonight's beermeeting will be at the Green Mill Brewing CO. on Hamline and Grand in St. Paul. Details here: http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ See ya there! Jacque _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jan 10 19:40:13 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Java directory In-Reply-To: <63.4bc741a.296f7156@aol.com> References: <63.4bc741a.296f7156@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020110190137.V26419@ringworld.org> * DCsk8r34@aol.com [020110 17:22]: > Hello, Im trying to install Java ICQ for linux and when I edit the install file > it is looking for a java directory that I dont have. Ive asked others and they > have it. Is there a place where I can get this file? Thanks Alot. > -Derek I would just avoid it and install gaim or gnomeicu. (or whatever kde users use) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jan 10 19:40:35 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <003e01c199da$93f96580$47646496@dart> References: <20020109173757.EB87B28E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109160207.A18415@visi.com> <20020109223947.D380C28E2B@thursday.freeze.com> <003e01c199da$93f96580$47646496@dart> Message-ID: <20020110190401.W26419@ringworld.org> * James Spinti [020110 08:58]: > > do it" need to be kept in the dark? Is this a government contract by > > chance? > I didn't check the archives, but I think once upon a time he let slip that > it was time sensitive stock information... No, I think thats the person with the 'marketwatch' address. (isn't that owned by cbs?) It would be cooler if IP Multicast were a reality and that everyone could just 'tune' into this stuff and have a client cull out what they want to know. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Thu Jan 10 19:51:37 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] f2w Message-ID: <20020110200035.GE18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> Anyone using/used f2w? How does it compare to other helpdesk apps? http://f2w.sourceforge.net/ From thudak at autonomous.tv Thu Jan 10 19:58:48 2002 From: thudak at autonomous.tv (Thomas J. Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020110200213.GA6374@Ikarus> * Jay Kline (list@slushpupie.com) wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions for a complete setup for this? We would > like to keep the number of servers to a minimum, and the servers would be > dedicated to SMTP relay, not really running anything else. We are not > opposed to running comercial software, right now we use PTMA (from Port25), > but liceneing for it is $9000 per box, and wouldlike something a bit cheaper. > Also, the other obvious problem is bandwith. Right now I belive we have 2 > T1's set up for this, and I know we will need more down the road. If I were building myself a high volume smtp relay that could fit your needs in the future, start with the basics.. you want fast storage, fast retrieval and reliability and maybe even a failover mechanism to start. 2 Boxen, go with 2 PIII 800's, each with 512M ram and a 10 gig ide drive. Remember, the machines don't need to be powerful, the speed comes from the IO backend and the network capabilities. Research raid arrays, smaller arrays, ie 60-120 Gig are not as expensive as you may think, otherwise you may just want an external JBOD full of big disks. You'll want scsi cards in your two machines so you can connect each to the array/JBOD at the same time. Use a stable variety of linux for your servers, I'd say debian stable due to it's reliable nature and ease of upgradeability. Make your array/JBOD into an LVM logical volume, that way you'll be able to expand it's size on-the-fly when you choose to add more storage resulting in less downtime. Use GFS (www.sistina.com <-- plug plug) as your file-system as this is what it was designed for, reliability and redundancy. Without getting to nitty-gritty, you should be able to setup a secure redundant mini-cluster able to fit the needs of a high-volume smtp relay with the ability to easily expand it's capabilities in the future. Outside of the linux world, go with any of the BSD's and use VINUM to create raid volumes, using soft-updates to increase data-reliability, the BSD's have wonderful load-balancing capabilites as well, and you can't beat BSD's rock solid stability.. Hell, if it's good enough for M$ and hotmail, I'd say it's hold it's own for your situation. Good luck! -- Tom Hudak Unix specialist TCOS Inc. 612-318-1967 thudak@autonomous.tv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/b2ffd778/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 10 20:08:36 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java directory In-Reply-To: <63.4bc741a.296f7156@aol.com> References: <63.4bc741a.296f7156@aol.com> Message-ID: <1010712463.1571.0.camel@minime> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 16:36, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > Hello, Im trying to install Java ICQ for linux and when I edit the install > file it is looking for a java directory that I dont have. Ive asked others > and they have it. Is there a place where I can get this file? Thanks Alot. > -Derek http://java.sun.com grab the JDK and install it. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin orge Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/f2fea577/attachment.pgp From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jan 10 20:09:07 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110194432.17E3928E50@thursday.freeze.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> <20020110194432.17E3928E50@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020110193338.X26419@ringworld.org> > difference would be with better drives? I would go with hardware raid and stripe some nice 10krpm or 15krpm drives. (or raid5, if you need the redundancy.. isn't raid5 faster than single disk, but not as fast as striping, right?) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From jim at herrick.net Thu Jan 10 20:10:21 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> Bob, Does Real Time have anything like this "Private Server" offering: http://www.invite.net/hosting/privateserver.cfm I know "virtual servers" have been talked about on the list over the last year... Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:25 PM Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) > Just in case you are not subscribed to the tclug-jobs list: > > $200US bounty for ntop-cvs for Redhat 6.2 > http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-jobs/2002-January/000090.html > > I dislike doing these "cheap plugs", but if a lugger can get the cash, that > would be great. > > What I forgot to mention in the posting is that the patch will be GPL'd and > contributed (of course) back to the ntop community. > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Thu Jan 10 20:15:31 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020110185241.D9277@wookimus.net> References: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net> <20020110185241.D9277@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020111014922.GF29157@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:52:41PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:50:53PM -0600, Lorry Lee Strother wrote: > > here t'is. > > Why are you sending the list Star Office Documents? It was a mistake. Nothing to see here, move along. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/3cf429a5/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Jan 10 20:21:12 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr Message-ID: Have you tried this? Modify the loopback entry in /etc/hosts to be: 127.0.0.1 localhost localhost.localdomain yourchosenhostname (all on one line). Untested. >>> goldman@htc.honeywell.com 01/10/02 09:33AM >>> >>>>> "BL" == Ben Lutgens writes: BL> On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 11:25, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> Sorry. I should have pointed out that I have a small network >> behind a firewall, and the firewall serves up the DNS addresses >> to the machines behind the firewall using DHCP. So I'm not >> sure how to use a hosts file to keep track of addresses. I >> hate to go to the trouble of setting up a DNS server for what >> seems like a trivial net. Is there an alternative? BL> Yes, the /etc/hosts file. Add what we told you to the BL> /etc/hosts file of the mailserver and all will be well. The IP BL> you use is the actual address of the machine on your LAN. So is there some way I can use if-up or some such mechanism to automagically echo the dhcp-issued ip address into /etc/hosts? Otherwise, since my IP address isn't fixed, there's no way to know a priori what address should go into /etc/hosts, is there? R _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Thu Jan 10 20:22:35 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] users don't install windows References: <200201101811.g0AIBGu03858@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C3DFB8D.EAFD2987@mn.mediaone.net> There are a huge number of windows users who have never had to re-install. (They have their child, spouse, sibling, etc. do it for them! :^) ) -- Doug Paul Overby wrote: > You mean there are windows users who have never had to re-install their OS? > > That's amazing. > > -- > Paul Overby > xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Thu Jan 10 20:26:29 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill In-Reply-To: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> References: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20020110182547.GA15926@lemongecko.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 09:13AM -0600, Rick Engebretson wrote: > With all the GHz CPUs filling the market, I think a note of caution is due. > Does anybody really need such a CPU?? Check your CPU load meter and you > will likely find a large excess capacity. I have a PIII-500 at home and it's perfectly fine. The biggest bottlneck is the memory -- only 128MB -- and the disk -- regular IDE, does 33MHz DMA I think. The network is also a bottleneck, but I suppose I have little to complain about with a cable modem that usually pulls about 2 megabits/second. My firewall/NAT box, which also runs Apache, Postfix, OpenSSH, an IMAP server, an NFS client to my PIII -- despite all these things, usually has a load average of 0.00. Maybe 0.10 if there's a couple people logged in to it. In fact, I'm ssh-ed in right now, let's check it with our friend ":r!w" ... 12:20:46 up 4 days, 1:10, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.01, 0.00 Not too busy. And that's a 375MHz processor. In a machine architecture class I took in college, I got the impression that most modern chips (this was only a few years ago) spent most of their time waiting for data from memory. I know that intelligent caching and whatnot can reduce this, but it seems like the hardware folks should be concentrating on speeding up memory and buses until they can feed data to a cpu as fast as it can take it. (of course, I'm not terribly current on these technology issues, so I may very well be talking out of my ass here) That said, I *do* want chip that runs 1GHz or faster, simply because "1000MHz" (or 1024MHz, for those of you with emotional attachments to powers of 2) is so much cooler than even "999MHz" because of the four digits and all. :) Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/b8047d4a/attachment.pgp From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Jan 10 20:26:58 2002 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Routing issue References: <1010599981.11379.5.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <15421.46125.975289.599869@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <3C3DDD2F.C6BDC94A@structural-wood.com> I'd like to pretend I'm a newbie on this one... I've got two linux machines connected to an SMC cable router (unfortunately the network is at home and I'm at work, so all of this is from memory). In /etc/hosts I've got entries for localhost, the smc router, and the two linux computers. The first computer works perfectly. It can ping machines internally and externally, ssh to the 2nd machine, browsers work fine. Absolutely no problems. The 2nd machine works perfectly with everything outside of the local network. Anything destined for the internal network is unfortunately also routed to the internet. For example, if I try to traceroute the smc router (which I've cleverly named 'smc' in /etc/hosts), I get something like this: (note that this is a made up traceroute)... family> traceroute smc traceroute to smc (192.168.2.1), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 smc (192.168.2.1) 168.005 ms 159.410 ms 159.816 ms 2 gv-gw01.skypoint.net (199.86.33.1) 159.773 ms 149.653 ms 149.831 ms 3 mrnet-skypoint-2.msc.mr.net (137.192.27.145) 159.818 ms 199.638 ms 169.832 ms 4 core1-ge1-1-0.msc.mr.net (137.192.3.254) 269.805 ms 169.638 ms 159.840 ms 5 p4-0.chcgil1-cr1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.149.97) 209.788 ms 159.637 ms 179.798 ms 6 p5-0.chcgil1-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.5.241) 169.803 ms 169.632 ms 169.863 ms 7 so-3-0-0.chcgil2-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.9.69) 189.773 ms 199.638 ms 169.811 ms 8 p13-0.iplvin1-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.9.58) 189.803 ms 199.647 ms 189.834 ms 9 p15-0.iplvin1-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.10.154) 169.810 ms 199.639 ms 179.817 ms It actually shows that it traverses 'smc' during the traceroute. I'm not sure that it prints the name though when it traverses it... arp shows the mac addresses of the machines on the network, but does not show the names associated with the mac address when arp is run on the 2nd machine. ifconfig on the 2nd is identical with the 1st (with the exception of the hardware and ip addresses). netstat -rn is the same route is the same /etc/resolv.conf is the same Actually while typing this, it occurs to me that the 2nd machine looks like it can do a name to ip lookup, but fails doing an ip to name. That rings a faint bell, but not loud enough for me to follow. Help... From esper at sherohman.org Thu Jan 10 20:31:48 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com>; from sextus@visi.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:05:27AM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020110143454.K16305@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:05:27AM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > ON Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:01:06AM -0600, Nate Straz wrote: > > Don't be silly. You should be able to tune the OS's disk caching enough > > that it's as fast as a RAM disk and not as dangerous. "Imagine running > > this on a ramdisk" is just like saying, "imagine a beowulf of these." > > It's a mail queue. I wouldn't expect the system to hit the files often enough > for the cache to make a difference, and so I'm not sure your objection applies. You're assuming that only reads are cached. For most OS file system caches, this assumption is incorrect. Write file once (to cache pending disk write), read file once (from cache, may or may not have made it onto disk), delete file (from cache, possible pending delete from disk if it ever got written for real). Like Nate said, as fast as a ramdisk and not as dangerous, even though the file isn't being hit repeatedly. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jan 10 20:32:16 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] cases Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D315@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> If anyone is looking for a sweet case, check out isitoday.com. They sell Chieftec cases, and they rock. The Antec SX1030B is actually a chieftec case with an Antec power supply. You'll need to call them if you want to order as their online shopping system isn't up yet. And the prices listed are retail prices, if you call them, they give you a much better price. Talk to the guy at extension 35, I forgot his name, but he's the guy that will give you the deal. I have a Chieftec case now, and it's probably the nicest case I've ever seen. Has a door to hide all of your ugly beige peripherals, comes with rails to mount everything on so you can just slide it out, it's almost completely screwless, and no sharp edges. Microcenter has some of their Beige stuff for ridiculous amounts of money (it's branded Antec at Microcenter) if you want to check them out. Jay From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 10 20:34:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010695266.17151.4.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 00:32, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Proud Dad here. Congrats Tim! There are few wonders in life that can compare to the joy a parent feels upon the birth of a child. Please give my regards to your wife. Having seen the "software release" process first hand I have a deep respect for the wondrous beings that can withstand the efforts of the amazing event. My former wife was in induced labor for nearly 80 hours before my stubborn little one came out. Perhaps he knew even then who his father was :-) -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/65024e7a/attachment.pgp From kbullock at ringworld.org Thu Jan 10 20:34:38 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gcombust References: Message-ID: <3C3DFD29.7030700@ringworld.org> Lazy bastard ;p I don't think there's a way to do it. But how much time would this really save? You have to change CDs anyway, and at that point you probably have to click some button or other to tell it to make the next copy... Kremer wrote: > I am using gcombust 1.47 to burn cd's. > Does anyone know if there is a way to tell it to make multiple copies > without going back and hitting "combust" again? (yeah...i'm a lazy > bastard) -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 10 20:35:17 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake update -- alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20020110184652.GB18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <20020110184652.GB18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1010695482.18167.6.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 12:46, Clay Fandre wrote: > This makes me appreciate apt-get that much more. ;-) > > Anyone try apt-rpm yet? > http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/scripts/apt-rpm.html Yup. it works o.k. for small things. Like if you're sitting at a box and realize you don't have netcat or some such. But I wouldn't recommend something like "apt-get install exim" or something else with virtual depends. I ended up hosing up my package database. It wasn't unfixable, but it wasn't fun either. > > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Ben Stallings wrote: > > > Last night I tried to use Mandrake 8.1's software update feature to download > > and install a security update to the kernel. I found the program to be very > > unsatisfactory: it didn't tell me the names of the files it was downloading > > or give any indication of how long the download would take. Then the files > > didn't wind up downloading all the way but the program tried to install them > > anyway, so I wound up with half old kernel modules and half new kernel > > modules and the machine wouldn't boot. When I got it up and running with the > > emergency floppy disk, there was no PPP support so I couldn't try the > > download again! And of course the installer's update mode doesn't fix the > > kernel, so I had to reinstall. :-< > > > > What alternatives are there to this Software Update program for Mandrake > > users? I know I can find rpms on rpmfind.net, but only if I know what > > they're called, and I like the idea of the software letting me know when > > updates are available... but if I can't trust it, I won't use it. > > Suggestions? --Ben > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/9b800d59/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jan 10 20:35:58 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D316@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Well, what kind of budget are you looking at for this? As cheap as possible, or does the client actually have some cash to burn? I don't recommend going cheap because if their traffic grows as much as you say it's going to, going cheap is going to be a problem later when you need to scale the system. What is doing the sending into the mail cluster? Another mail server, or an app that generates the email? Can it be made to hold open multiple connections, or does it open a separate connection for each message? Can it talk to a list of IP's, or just to one? Can you run multiple apps in parallel, having each one point at a different mail server? By doing this, you eliminate the need for some other sort of load balancing unit. I suggest a cluster of FreeBSD boxes running postfix, but it's unclear how you plan to load balance the mail coming into the cluster. More details. :) Jay -----Original Message----- From: Jay Kline To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Sent: 1/9/2002 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay No, absolutely not. (Though this is not the first time we have been accused of that) Because of non-disclosure agreements, I am not allowed to say exactly what we do, but rest assured, that every piece of mail being sent is expected by the recipiant. Jay On Wednesday 09 January 2002 10:53 am, you wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > > I am doing some research to set up a high volume SMTP relay server for > > a company. As of right now, they average roughly 4000 7K messages per > > minute during the work day (a total of about 1 million messages per 8 > > hour work day). By the end of the year, their estimates are to be > > sending 12 times that. As this is outgoing mail only, local delivery > > really isnt a big deal, we have one incoming server set up for that, > > and is handling just fine. > > Please tell me these guys aren't spammers? _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com Thu Jan 10 20:37:51 2002 From: jesse_erdmann at securecomputing.com (Jesse Erdmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] users don't install windows References: <200201101811.g0AIBGu03858@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <3C3DFCD7.242BF596@securecomputing.com> Message-ID: <3C3E04DD.B0E01C53@securecomputing.com> Jesse Erdmann wrote: > > Nope, I've seen them. They just sit for 12 minutes while their machine ^^^^ Should be "Yep". I don't know what my problem is today. -- Jesse Erdmann Engineer Secure Computing Corp. From jim at herrick.net Thu Jan 10 20:55:05 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> Message-ID: <009f01c19a45$5d0898f0$d129a541@host209> Obviously not intended for the whole list. Sorry. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Herrick" To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) > Bob, > > Does Real Time have anything like this "Private Server" offering: > http://www.invite.net/hosting/privateserver.cfm > > I know "virtual servers" have been talked about on the list over the last > year... > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Tanner" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:25 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) > > > > Just in case you are not subscribed to the tclug-jobs list: > > > > $200US bounty for ntop-cvs for Redhat 6.2 > > http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-jobs/2002-January/000090.html > > > > I dislike doing these "cheap plugs", but if a lugger can get the cash, > that > > would be great. > > > > What I forgot to mention in the posting is that the patch will be GPL'd > and > > contributed (of course) back to the ntop community. > > > > -- > > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Jan 10 20:57:48 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110193338.X26419@ringworld.org> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> <20020110194432.17E3928E50@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110193338.X26419@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1010715348.7296.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 19:33, Scott Dier wrote: > > difference would be with better drives? > > I would go with hardware raid and stripe some nice 10krpm or 15krpm > drives. (or raid5, if you need the redundancy.. isn't raid5 faster than > single disk, but not as fast as striping, right?) > My understanding is that "it depends", when it comes to reads. If the data that you're looking for is in the hardware cache on any of the disks, it becomes available very quickly. With raid5, there's more hardware disk cache space available than with striping, all other things being equal. The Raid How-To seems to suggest that the performance advantages of striping may not be nearly as much as they are thought to be. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/4549268e/attachment.pgp From jim at herrick.net Thu Jan 10 20:59:15 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> <20020107172331.Q26419@ringworld.org> <20020107181900.M21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: <00c301c19a46$d4ef10f0$d129a541@host209> There are Win16 and Win32 RDP clients. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? > Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > > * Bob Tanner [020107 17:09]: > > > Isn't RDP commerical, ie $$$$/box? > > > > Nope, you get 2 free RDP connections per windows 2000 server, as long as > > the users using it are "Administrator" group users. > > > > So the only "down side" is this is Win2K specific thingie? > > Won't work in Win9X, right? > > -- > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 10 21:11:41 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] cases In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D315@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from Austad, Jay on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:39:23PM -0600 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D315@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020110203820.A9482@rephil.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:39:23PM -0600, Austad, Jay wrote: > If anyone is looking for a sweet case, check out isitoday.com. They sell > Chieftec cases, and they rock. No thanks, I had a chair like that once -- it, too, rocked -- but it only served to scare the cat. I'd prefer a stable case. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From sextus at visi.com Thu Jan 10 21:14:23 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110194432.17E3928E50@thursday.freeze.com>; from Jay Kline on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 01:44:30PM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> <20020110194432.17E3928E50@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020110204235.A6194@visi.com> ON Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 01:44:30PM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > I just did a test with a base install of Postfix from a mandrake RPM (I know > this is not the most efficient setup). When the spools were on fixed disk, I > was able to send about 11 messages per second. When I switched to a ramdisk > for the spools, performace jumped to about 67 messages per second. So there > was an obvoius performance increase here, though I am just using a standard > home PC class IDE hard drive (Maxtor 52049H4). What do you think the > difference would be with better drives? Using MORE and faster disks will help somewhat but will probably still not beat the RAM disk in your test. But you'll still need to write deferrals to disk unless you have an awful lot of RAM. And DNS and SMTP servers don't always respond instantaneously...or at all...or accept all your connections if they do. -- Michael From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 10 21:14:45 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> Message-ID: <1010716925.2099.0.camel@minime> The topic says "This is not spam" spamassassin says it is. please stop the madness :-) On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 19:36, Jim Herrick wrote: > SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ---------------------- > SPAM: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been altered > SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future, using > SPAM: the built-in mail filtering support in your mail reader. > SPAM: > SPAM: Content analysis details: (6.9 hits, 6 required) > SPAM: Hit! (2 points) Bulk email software fingerprints found in headers > SPAM: Hit! (0.8 points) Subject has an exclamation mark > SPAM: Hit! (2.1 points) BODY: /this is not (?:spam|unsolicited)/i > SPAM: Hit! (2 points) BODY: Claims "This is not spam" > SPAM: > SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results --------------------- -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin orge Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/c4f7af51/attachment.pgp From churchid at visi.com Thu Jan 10 21:15:14 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated (very long - my apologies) In-Reply-To: <3C3B5FE8.1C3C21BA@attbroadband.com> Message-ID: First, I want to note that I agree with the spirit of this story. I use Linux. I like Linux. But I don't think Linux is ready for just anybody to sit down and install it, so I'm going to play a little Devil's Advocate (and if ever there were a fitting moniker for the major opponent here, this is certainly it! ;). > I find it intersting that everyone seems to go out of their way to note > "how complicated" Linux is. I personally haven't heard this from that many people, but I generally am around computer-savvy people, so I wouldn't. But, are these people wrong? Isn't Linux more complicated? One of the great things about Linux is that it is so open to customization. This is inherently more complicated than an OS like Windows, which greatly limits your ability to customize the interface. Sure, you can get distros of Linux which set up with barely any input from the user, but to modify that setup if it's not just what you need is certainly no simpler than it is in Windows, in the best of cases. (And no, it's no more *complex* to perform interface changes by editing a text file than it is to use graphical tools in either Linux or Windows, but the graphical interface, at least if well-designed, *is* more *intuitive* for people who don't live and breathe computer code. > She designs web sites and uses photoshop so she had to have windows > which cost me more than the PC. I decided > on win98 cause I'm just not ready for XP. No argument here. Product activation is the worst idea Microsoft has had in a long time, if not the worst ever. (And *that* is really saying something...) > When I installed windows I had to install drivers for both the graphics > card and the ethernet card. > It certainly wasn't automatic. And I suppose the graphics card and ethernet card models existed when Win98 was released, so that Win98 should have had the exact drivers for them.... > Windows got its registry screwed up > because of an attached zip > drive so it couldn't locate the drivers. (It was looking in the wrong > place) I'm certain any windows > "newbie" would not have known what to do. The ethernet card had > separate folders for each winOS > so windows couldn't find those either. Sounds like extremely cheap ethernet card. IMO, any network card worth having has a driver disk with root level .inf files so Windows installs for them are the next thing to painless. > Windows never even suggested I > might want to set up my > network connection although IE tried to help me set up a dial connection > even though I have no modem. > Silly me, how could I be so stupid about clicking the wrong option. First, Win98 was a home-user targeted OS from ~4 years ago, and network cards in home computers were not the norm. I agree the Internet Connection Wizard, particularly in its early forms, was at best an extreme annoyance to anyone who knows anything about networking. However, it sounds like someone was in a bit too big of a hurry, and a little too conceited to read what was on the screen before clicking the wrong button. > And in the end my new 1.4 gig cpu > was running like a pentium 66. Finally discoverd that a sound mixer > application was being started > automatically and was hogging all the system resources. I just end task > on boot cause I haven't bothered > to find out where windows buried the startup for it. And was that sound mixer a *Microsoft* *Windows* product, or some cheap 3rd party software that didn't include well-tested drivers and software? Windows 98, to the best of my knowledge, never had any kind of mixer beyond the very basic one that you get from the Multimedia Accessories (or by double-clicking the speaker in the taskbar). Linux isn't always a walk in the park when it comes to driver issues, either. The difference and benefit with Linux is that anyone has some way to address poor drivers, through modifying the ones that don't work or by writing new ones. However, Microsoft and Windows should not be blamed because some third party company didn't write decent drivers or include bug-free software. I'm all for beating on Microsoft's faults, but I'd rather not create them where they don't exist. > I still have't got > the CD player to work under windows. > Guess I never will. Though you don't have many details, this sounds to me more like a hardware glitch than a software, i.e. Windows, issue. Assuming the CD player works with Linux, it seems probably that checking that master and slave jumpers are set absolutely correctly, since an older OS like Win98, might not play so nice as the shiny new Redhat 7.2. > As for Linux. It did ask me to verify my mouse and keyboard and monitor > and video card. I suppose > those extra four clicks were a tremendous nusance. Now you're getting petty. > I also had to fill > in an IP address, gateway, and > DNS address.This is a toughone since I had to get it from the network > admin (that's me). Hmmm. What if you weren't the network admin? What if you didn't know what an IP address, gateway, or DNS address was, and furthermore, didn't care to know? Many people don't. I don't get along well with those people well either, but Lord knows there are a lot of them out there. And while Windows' method to deal with this, by assigning a random address from private IP address space, isn't exactly ideal, it is a method which gives a *lot* of people what they want, in that when they reboot because the Internet didn't work, and the DHCP server that wasn't responding before now is, so that the Internet works, and all they had to do was reboot, and they still don't know or care what an IP address, gateway, or DNS server is. > I also had > to enter that pesky root password. Typing its not so bad but you got > to think one up. Too many old > fashions and you may never know what you ended up with. Then they gave > me this incredible array of > CHOICES. workstation, server, laptop, custom. Whats a custom anyway? > And of course I had to > insert a second CD and click OK. The nerve of those people giving me > more stuff than they can fit on > a single CD. This is a lot more pettiness. I don't disagree that typing a password is not a big deal. All of my systems require passwords, and I live alone, with absolutely no reason to need or want a password on my desktop. Yet I set up computers for non-technical users all the time, and the question is always, "Why do I need a password?" And, since these aren't kids, I don't really feel right telling them, "Because I say so," when there really is no good reason I could give them for why they need a password. Thus, I usually end up setting up their Windows to login automatically on boot, whether through TweakUI or via the Passwords control panel. And sure, it's nice to get a lot of extra software on the CDs, but if you don't know the first thing about using any of it, and aren't interested in learning it (*many* people are not) then what is the use? > So I went off to wrap some presents and before I can get > back my son, he's 8, wants to > know what the password is so he can check out the new games. So I go > back to wrapping presents. > He plays the games. And if it doesn't run the latest and greatest games that you can buy at Best Buy, how happy are most people going to be with it? I for one will not be getting rid of my Windows box any time soon, even though I would really like to, for exactly this reason. The games shipped with Linux are fun, sure, but they don't compete head to head with commercially-available ones. > Of course I skipped the part about the four hours I spent trying to get > the partition table set up correctly > so both windows and Linux were satisfied. But that is the point. Linux > gets tough when you try to do > things windows won't allow you to do. Try installing windows over > Linux for a dual boot system. > Hope you don't waste too much of your time. 4 hours to set up the partition table for a clean install. Sounds like someone's wasting his time, all right. Agreed (and stated near the beginning of this e-mail in a slightly different way) that Linux is tougher to use when doing things that Windows doesn't allow. As for installing Windows over Linux for dual-boot, just make sure you have the Linux boot disk you created during that extremely simple Linux install process (you *did* create it, didn't you). Boot to the Win98 boot disk, run fdisk and create a primary partition (assuming you left space for it during the Linux install, and only if you don't already have a FAT partition in place), reboot, run format c:, run setup and install Windows. Reboot to your Linux rescue disk, and run lilo. Not that much pain, but gee, you have to know what you're doing...where have we heard of that being necessary when doing things Windows users don't usually do? > Oh and I almost forgot. Linux never asked me to type in that 5000 digit > license code. What a relief? No one's arguing against the benefits of free code. I'll just point out that many commercial Linux programs (not that there are all that many, comparatively) also require a license code not less than 5000 digits long. So, now that I have undoubtedly done the equivalent of casting 8th level wizard spell "Incendiary Cloud" upon myself, I just want to make one more point before countering with 3rd level "Protection from Fire".... I am a Linux user. I am proud to be a Linux user. But not when other people who profess themselves to be advocates to the unconverted take it upon themselves to whine and cry about how unfair everyone is towards Linux, just because they had a bad experience installing a 4 year old Windows operating system on brand-spanking new (and quite frequently cheap, in the most negative sense of the word) hardware, and then comparing that to a wonderful experience installing a brand spanking new Linux OS on that same system, and saying how much better Linux is because of it. Frankly, I'm glad you posted this to *this* list, because virtually all of the people here know what Linux is and is not, and won't be put off by the unprofessional, childlike whining. If all that effort went into the development of better tools for Linux, the whining would still be going on, but it would be a decidely different group of people doing it. Okay. I'm done. Have at me, y'all. I fully expect to be burned to a crisp, despite the Protection from Fire spell....it only lasts for a few rounds, you know. *Sincerely,* Dan Churchill From nate at techie.com Thu Jan 10 21:44:49 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net>; from fish@slava.net on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:50:53PM -0600 References: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net> Message-ID: <20020110210303.A23786@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:50:53PM -0600, Lorry Lee Strother wrote: > here t'is. Interesting paper topic. Nate From sextus at visi.com Thu Jan 10 21:45:15 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110143454.K16305@sherohman.org>; from Dave Sherohman on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:34:54PM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020109194848.55D3317790@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> <20020109235427.8BA6F29102@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110005254.A9169@visi.com> <20020110080106.A10014@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <20020110110527.A2303@visi.com> <20020110143454.K16305@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020110210443.B6194@visi.com> ON Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:34:54PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > You're assuming that only reads are cached. For most OS file system > caches, this assumption is incorrect. Write file once (to cache > pending disk write), read file once (from cache, may or may not have > made it onto disk), delete file (from cache, possible pending delete > from disk if it ever got written for real). Like Nate said, as fast > as a ramdisk and not as dangerous, even though the file isn't being > hit repeatedly. That's certainly possible, although it doesn't explain Jay's reported performance increase. Maybe his buffer cache (<--term?) was just set too low. I've read conflicting accounts on the subject. For the record, though, I recommend using RAM disks only for entertainment purposes, and only where permitted by state and local authorities. -- Michael From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Jan 10 21:50:20 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring Message-ID: Hey all, Well I'm finally going to have a house, and I'm thinking that wiring the place up would be a better idea than running cable over the place, and bulk cable/crimpers/jacks are cheaper than TWO wireless NICs and can serve a whole buttload of machines. So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything except ethernet, etc? TIA, -Yaron -- From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 10 21:56:22 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110200213.GA6374@Ikarus> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110200213.GA6374@Ikarus> Message-ID: <1010720376.2099.2.camel@minime> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 14:06, Thomas J. Hudak wrote: > Outside of the linux world, go with any of the BSD's and use VINUM to > create raid volumes, using soft-updates to increase data-reliability, > the BSD's have wonderful load-balancing capabilites as well, and you > can't beat BSD's rock solid stability.. Hell, if it's good enough for > M$ and hotmail, I'd say it's hold it's own for your situation. Softupdates are not good on rapidly changing data (they recommend not using it on /var cause it's very likely you'll not get log information in the event of a crash. In the case of mail you'd definitely LOOSE ALOT OF SHIT on a busy mail spool in the event of a failure. Softupdates is for performance increase but does NOT guarantee data integrity. Vinum doesn't support multi-node / multi-initiator. But pool may one day work on BSD if it doesn't already. GFS is not exactly fast btw, but it is safe. And it's highly available. There is alot of other stuff to consider when planning a cluster mailserver there's a LUGger who gave sistina a talk on this very thing while he worked for Sendmail Inc (I'll let him say who he is) and he brought up alot of points (most of which escape me at the moment) that make this an extremely non-trivial task to do correctly. Mostly these concerns refered to shared-storage and not neccesarily the process of keeping the servers working together. Things like directory contention, lockspace, points of failure etc. -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin orge Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/2cad4e71/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jan 10 22:35:50 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020111014922.GF29157@iucha.net> References: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net> <20020110185241.D9277@wookimus.net> <20020111014922.GF29157@iucha.net> Message-ID: <1010720489.2325.4.camel@minime> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 19:49, Florin Iucha wrote: > > Why are you sending the list Star Office Documents? > > It was a mistake. Nothing to see here, move along. "These aren't the droids you're looking for..." -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin orge Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020110/30aa341c/attachment.pgp From houle at citilink.com Thu Jan 10 22:40:28 2002 From: houle at citilink.com (Terry Houle) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Saturday at the Twin City PC Users Group (TC/PC) Message-ID: The Twin Cities PC Users group will have a Linux on Saturday meeting this coming Saturday January 12th. It will begin at 9 AM and run till about 11:30 and TCLUG members are welcome to come. Two TCLUG members have agreed to facilitate and it will kind of go where the audience leads it. Since TCPC is new to Linux it is expected to be more toward the entry level as opposed to the Admin level. TC/PC meetings are free and open to the public and it will be at our normal sig meeting place at 2850 Metro Drive in Bloomington near the Mall of America. It is on the lower level in Room 124 and further directions can be found on the TP/PC web site address listed below. There is a limited amount of space in the room but we will see how it goes. Hopefully if we can maintain enough interest between TCPC/TCLUG and some Linux presenters we will try and do this monthly. So mark your calendar now. Terry Houle President Twin Cities PC Users Group terry@tcpc.com http://www.tcpc.com From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jan 10 22:40:52 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <00c301c19a46$d4ef10f0$d129a541@host209> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <200110311352.f9VDqPk26290@enchanter.real-time.com> <20020104085813.A26419@ringworld.org> <20020106224345.J25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020106233912.M26419@ringworld.org> <20020107162459.T3301@real-time.com> <20020107172331.Q26419@ringworld.org> <20020107181900.M21131@real-time.com> <00c301c19a46$d4ef10f0$d129a541@host209> Message-ID: <20020110214857.C26419@ringworld.org> * Jim Herrick [020110 21:01]: > There are Win16 and Win32 RDP clients. > > Won't work in Win9X, right? There is also 'rdesktop' for unix, which can speak RDP to windows 2000 and XP I believe. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Jan 10 22:46:20 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Home wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020110215647.E26419@ringworld.org> * Yaron [020110 21:52]: > bulk cable/crimpers/jacks are cheaper than TWO wireless NICs and can > serve a whole buttload of machines. I'm seriously thinking of getting two powerline ethernet bridges, but the cost blows. Like $150/unit. Otherwise, I'll just tear the walls apart when we move :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From wilson at visi.com Thu Jan 10 22:49:54 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] f2w In-Reply-To: <20020110200035.GE18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone using/used f2w? How does it compare to other helpdesk apps? > http://f2w.sourceforge.net/ I messed with it a bit at school when the IS guys were interested in trying it. It's a Zope app so you've got to be running that. The docs indicate that it should work with any SQL database and database adaptor, but we didn't have any luck with anything other than the author's recommended configuration. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From wilson at visi.com Thu Jan 10 22:50:22 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Yaron wrote: > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? I've had good luck with GoldCom in South St. Paul. They handle all sorts of networking connectors, cable, etc. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From kelly-black at mediaone.net Thu Jan 10 22:57:16 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <00c301c19a46$d4ef10f0$d129a541@host209> References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> <20020107181900.M21131@real-time.com> <00c301c19a46$d4ef10f0$d129a541@host209> Message-ID: <02011022135200.00911@edith> Would the 32 bit server work with this? http://www.rdesktop.org/ Kelly Black KB0GBJ > There are Win16 and Win32 RDP clients. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Tanner" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:19 PM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Linux and Win2K TOC the same? > > > Quoting Scott Dier (dieman+tclug@ringworld.org): > > > * Bob Tanner [020107 17:09]: > > > > Isn't RDP commerical, ie $$$$/box? > > > > > > Nope, you get 2 free RDP connections per windows 2000 server, as long > > > as the users using it are "Administrator" group users. > > > > So the only "down side" is this is Win2K specific thingie? > > > > Won't work in Win9X, right? From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Thu Jan 10 23:21:49 2002 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hosed system Message-ID: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Hi all, I've managed to completely kill my system, and in the great tradition of thee things I don't really know why... I updated X in Debian/Woody, and by only using half my ass got things somewhat confused, and X wouldn't start (with many odd messages). After a while I stumbled upon the fact that I was still running v3. of X, rather than the 4 I had thought (can you tell I'm a newbie?) I found the dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 command (or something like that), which seemed to go well. The only problem at the end was that it wouldn't recognize my mouse (/dev/ttyS3) I checked and it didn't have write enabled for group, so I made a lucky guess at the correct CHMOD syntax and fixed? that. It was also complaining about not having a /dev/input/mice, so I created that as a link to /dev/ttyS3. Don't know if it's relevant, but ls -l ttyS* said that all four ports were dialout? So I logged in (still su to root) and got X, KDE etc., but a big fuzzy block where my mouse pointer should be. So I exited out of root, and startx as myself. My monitor clicks as it changes resolution, then a black screen. And that's it. No ctrl-alt-del, ctrl-alt-bksp, or (ctrl)-alt-F(1-7) has any effect, and I have to hard reboot. But as I use KDM this takes me straight back to the same place. I tried rescue from the debian setup disk, but this takes me to the same place (not what I was expecting). So, any suggestions on how to get in to fix it, and what should I fix?! Thanks, Paul From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jan 10 23:34:46 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D31A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> And, an indispensible tool for home wiring is one of those 54 inch flexible drill bits. Home depot has them for about $30. Just cut your hole in the wall with a Rotozip, and stick the drill bit in the wall and bend it down to the floor and drill your hole into the basement. I just bought one and I don't know how I got along without it. It's even got a hole on the end to attach cable to, so you can pull it through the wall. Jay -----Original Message----- From: Tim Wilson To: TCLUG Sent: 1/10/2002 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Home wiring On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Yaron wrote: > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? I've had good luck with GoldCom in South St. Paul. They handle all sorts of networking connectors, cable, etc. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jan 11 00:16:35 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] f2w In-Reply-To: <20020110200035.GE18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com>; from cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:00:35PM -0600 References: <20020110200035.GE18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020110235003.F16020@real-time.com> Quoting Clay Fandre (cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org): > Anyone using/used f2w? How does it compare to other helpdesk apps? > http://f2w.sourceforge.net/ If anyone is using this, I'd like to hear a review. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jan 11 00:17:53 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Java directory In-Reply-To: <1010712463.1571.0.camel@minime>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 07:27:42PM -0600 References: <63.4bc741a.296f7156@aol.com> <1010712463.1571.0.camel@minime> Message-ID: <20020110235249.G16020@real-time.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 16:36, DCsk8r34@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, Im trying to install Java ICQ for linux and when I edit the install > > file it is looking for a java directory that I dont have. Ive asked others > > and they have it. Is there a place where I can get this file? Thanks Alot. > > -Derek > > http://java.sun.com > grab the JDK and install it. I prefer IBM's JDK, much more stable, better at handling fonts. http://www.software.ibm.com -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jan 11 00:23:00 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209>; from jim@herrick.net on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 07:36:45PM -0600 References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> Message-ID: <20020110235420.H16020@real-time.com> Quoting Jim Herrick (jim@herrick.net): > Bob, > > Does Real Time have anything like this "Private Server" offering: > http://www.invite.net/hosting/privateserver.cfm > > I know "virtual servers" have been talked about on the list over the last > year... Nope. This is why I wanted the Z-series :-) -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 01:06:25 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux ain't so complicated (very long - my apologies) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201110616.g0B6GTu13458@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Thursday 10 January 2002 08:49 pm, you wrote: > So, now that I have undoubtedly done the equivalent of casting 8th level > wizard spell "Incendiary Cloud" upon myself, I just want to make one more > point before countering with 3rd level "Protection from Fire".... > Okay. I'm done. Have at me, y'all. I fully expect to be burned to a > crisp, despite the Protection from Fire spell....it only lasts for a few > rounds, you know. Wow! Well I played AD&D too Dan and at least you didn't cast the 2nd level spell of "Stinking Cloud" (p.72 of Players Handbook) by accident. Besides, the guy is at least using Linux. His daughter, whom seems inexorably (sp) tied to MS and Win98 may be caught in the 8th level spell of "Trap the Soul" (p.92) cast by the Evil Emporer Bill Gates. Ahh well...I had better get back to my Jan. '83 issue of Dragon magazine and this little joke from "Wormy": Q: Whats the difference between a dwarf who digs for ore, and an ogre who waits too long at a classy restaurant? A: One knows his pick...and the other picks his nose! ha.ha.ha.... From djb at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 11 01:07:23 2002 From: djb at tc.umn.edu (Dave Bianchi) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCSA meeting January 17 Message-ID: <3C3DB49F.5B2AA459@tc.umn.edu> The Twin Cities System Administrators (TCSA) group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest to system and network administrators in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. The meetings are free and open to the public. Check out our web site at http://www.tcsa.org/ TCSA meetings are on the third Thursday of each month at 7:00 pm. Next Meeting: Topic: LISA 2001 Conference Highlights Speaker: LISA 2001 Conference Attendees Date/Time: January 17, 2002 7:00 pm Location: University Park Plaza Office Building (Onvoy) Synopsis: TCSA members that attended LISA 2001 in San Diego in December will provide the group with a review of the highlights from the conference. Topics of interest include: Certification, SAGE Board news, and an invited talk about CNN.com on Sep 11. We will meet at University Park Plaza Office Building (Onvoy office), 2829 University Ave. SE, in a conference room on the first floor of the building. Tentative Meeting Schedule February 21, 2002 - SANs, Brocade March 21, 2002 Directions: Directions to University Park Plaza (Onvoy): The Onvoy office is at University Park Plaza Office Building, 2829 University Ave. SE. It is a white-concrete, 9-story, hexagonal building (previously occupied by Group Health). The windows are distinctive, shaped somewhat like TV screens. University Park Plaza is on the north side of University Ave. (across from the Octopus Car Wash), about 3 blocks east of the intersection of Washington Ave. and University Ave. or about 3 blocks west of KSTP-TV. - From the South (35W) Proceed north on 35W, exiting onto Interstate 94 East. Continue in the far left lane on Interstate 94 East to the Highway 280 exit. Remain on Highway 280 until University Ave. Turn left on University, proceed 7 blocks west to SE 29th Ave. The building is on your right. - From the North (35W) Proceed south on 35W, exiting onto Highway 280 South. Continue on Highway 280 until the University Ave. exit. Turn right on University. Continue 7 blocks west to SE 29th Ave. The building is on your right. - From the West (94/394) Proceed east on 94, cross the Mississippi river and continue in the far left lane on Interstate 94 East to the Highway 280 exit. Remain on Highway 280 until University Ave. Turn left on University, proceed 7 blocks west to SE 29th Ave. The building is on your right. - From the East (94) Proceed west on 94, continue in the far right lane to the Highway 280 exit. Remain on Highway 280 until University Ave. Turn left onto University, proceed 7 blocks to SE 29th St. The building is on your right. - Parking Free parking is available in the visitor lot off SE 29th Ave. and in front of the building along University Ave. - Web map is at: http://www.onvoy.com/about_offices_upp.html For more information on TCSA, check out our web site: http://www.tcsa.org/ To subscribe to the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS mailing lists, follow the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS link from: http://list.onvoy.com/ For any other information, please send email to: info@tcsa.org or contact: Dave Bianchi 651-260-1770 -- Dave Bianchi Collective Technologies djb@colltech.com A Pencom Company djb@tc.umn.edu http://www.colltech.com/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From marc at ds6.net Fri Jan 11 01:07:52 2002 From: marc at ds6.net (Marc A. Ohmann) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 09:26:05PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020110230331.E24231@flanders.digsol.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 09:26:05PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > Hey all, > > Well I'm finally going to have a house, and I'm thinking that wiring the > place up would be a better idea than running cable over the place, and > bulk cable/crimpers/jacks are cheaper than TWO wireless NICs and can > serve a whole buttload of machines. > > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? > I always go to an electrical distributor (ie graybar, viking, border states, ... ). 1000' of cat5 is usually ~$60 and the patch cords are much less than the best buys and comp usas. In my next house I'm gonna run a gutter behind the base trim in every room so cable upgrades and additions will be easier. -- ------ Marc A. Ohmann marc@ds6.net ------ Digital Solutions, Inc. ------ | | .~. | | - Internet Hosting | /V\ L I N U X | | - Application Programming | // \\ | | - Network Administration | /( )\ Solution Provider | | | ^^-^^ | -----------Digital Solutions, Inc----------- From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Fri Jan 11 01:10:00 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: f2w In-Reply-To: <20020110235003.F16020@real-time.com> References: <20020110200035.GE18809@host5.arndt.real-time.com> <20020110235003.F16020@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020111002409.I26419@ringworld.org> * Bob Tanner [020111 00:21]: > Quoting Clay Fandre (cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org): > > Anyone using/used f2w? How does it compare to other helpdesk apps? > > http://f2w.sourceforge.net/ > > If anyone is using this, I'd like to hear a review. ditto. However it will be rough if it didn't have a gtk frontend or something to use too :| cmd line would be cool also. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From andy at theasis.com Fri Jan 11 01:18:02 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? It depends a lot on the house, and on your needs. In many houses it's a royal pain to run wire -- that's a function of the age and the construction style. Also how good you are at repairing the holes you made. If you don't need computers scattered all over the place, but merely want one or two boxes outside the central location of the net (I have 7 computers in 1 room, then 2 laptops that move around), consider wireless (e.g. orinoco). If you really do need to run wires, buy a (electrician's) snake. The frustration it saves is well worth the cost ($30-40). I personally can't see why you'd need more than cat5 for general use. For any long or difficult run, pull an extra wire (or something cheaper), in order to ease any future runs. I recommend using with the Leviton wall plates and their interchangeable plugs. You can get them at most local hardware chains. Andy > TIA, > > -Yaron From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 11 02:01:57 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smarter dhcp client? Message-ID: <20020111012320.5504a8dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Has anyone heard of a DHCP client for Linux that will look at whether the ethernet card has a link to a hub before trying to configure? Conversely, do any clients de-configure the network when you pull the plug? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ The Wilfahrt Bros. sell / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ gas... \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/2b65ff06/attachment.pgp From petre.scheie at nextelpartners.com Fri Jan 11 07:56:49 2002 From: petre.scheie at nextelpartners.com (Petre Scheie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill In-Reply-To: <20020110174824.7B82528E2C@thursday.freeze.com> References: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> <20020110174824.7B82528E2C@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <20020111.13260300@gromit.> What do those machines do that maxes them out so? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 1/10/02, 11:48:23 AM, Jay Kline wrote regarding Re: [TCLUG] hardware overkill: > On Thursday 10 January 2002 09:13 am, you wrote: > > With all the GHz CPUs filling the market, I think a note of caution is due. > > Does anybody really need such a CPU?? Check your CPU load meter and you > > will likely find a large excess capacity. > We have four servers running at 85% CPU / 95% Mem for close to 15 hours a > day- these are Dual 1.3GHz processor machines.. so I would have to say > "yes," at least I do. > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Fri Jan 11 08:48:35 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill In-Reply-To: <20020111.13260300@gromit.> References: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> <20020110174824.7B82528E2C@thursday.freeze.com> <20020111.13260300@gromit.> Message-ID: <20020111140302.0DAE828E2B@thursday.freeze.com> Webserver, SQL server, and 2 mail servers. On Friday 11 January 2002 07:26 am, you wrote: > What do those machines do that maxes them out so? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > On 1/10/02, 11:48:23 AM, Jay Kline wrote regarding > > Re: [TCLUG] hardware overkill: > > On Thursday 10 January 2002 09:13 am, you wrote: > > > With all the GHz CPUs filling the market, I think a note of caution is > > due. > > > > Does anybody really need such a CPU?? Check your CPU load meter and you > > > will likely find a large excess capacity. > > > > We have four servers running at 85% CPU / 95% Mem for close to 15 hours a > > day- these are Dual 1.3GHz processor machines.. so I would have to > > say > > > "yes," at least I do. > > > > > > Jay > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at Jentges.NET Fri Jan 11 08:54:58 2002 From: mike at Jentges.NET (MJ) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Yaron! Congrats on the new mortgage! Here I just have cat 5e that I got a spool of at Menards. 1000ft if I remember right, about $80. I didn't get fancy with patch panels, just some biege boxes that mount on the wall with 6 jacks. These things can house coax, rj11 and rj45 jacks, probably more. The jacks themselves are just inserts that fit in the beige box. These same inserts fit in the wall plates as well. If you need more than 6, and have a big budget, then you might indeed want to look at patch panels. I got all this stuff at Menards. Personally, as far as hubs/switches go, I'd stay away from any linksys stuff. Both mine and a friends turned out to be total garbage. Again, congrats! Mike Jentges On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Yaron wrote: > Hey all, > > Well I'm finally going to have a house, and I'm thinking that wiring the > place up would be a better idea than running cable over the place, and > bulk cable/crimpers/jacks are cheaper than TWO wireless NICs and can > serve a whole buttload of machines. > > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? > > TIA, > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From goldman at htc.honeywell.com Fri Jan 11 09:18:53 2002 From: goldman at htc.honeywell.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail and gethostbyaddr In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15422.64051.23042.617725@mn65-zippy.htc.honeywell.com> >>>>> "TAJ" == Troy A Johnson writes: TAJ> Have you tried this? Modify the loopback entry in /etc/hosts TAJ> to be: TAJ> 127.0.0.1 localhost localhost.localdomain yourchosenhostname TAJ> (all on one line). Untested. I don't THINK that'll work (not at home as I write this): the logs show sendmail: gethostbyaddr(192.168.xxx.yyy) failed So as far as I can tell, the look-up is the reverse of a domain name look-up, it's trying to find what the domain name for the IP address is. At least that's what it looks like to me. I'm not at all an expert on either sendmail or DNS! R From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Jan 11 09:19:30 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209>; from jim@herrick.net on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 07:36:45PM -0600 References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> Message-ID: <20020111094628.A25008@mtu.net> Interesting thing to note. Razor considered this message, the followup and a message on DHCP spam. Is someone on the list accidentally submitting messages to razor? On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 07:36:45PM -0600, Jim Herrick wrote: > Bob, > > Does Real Time have anything like this "Private Server" offering: > http://www.invite.net/hosting/privateserver.cfm > > I know "virtual servers" have been talked about on the list over the last > year... > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Tanner" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:25 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) > > > > Just in case you are not subscribed to the tclug-jobs list: > > > > $200US bounty for ntop-cvs for Redhat 6.2 > > http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-jobs/2002-January/000090.html > > > > I dislike doing these "cheap plugs", but if a lugger can get the cash, > that > > would be great. > > > > What I forgot to mention in the posting is that the patch will be GPL'd > and > > contributed (of course) back to the ntop community. > > > > -- > > Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From jack at jacku.com Fri Jan 11 09:20:08 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (jack@jacku.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: f2w Message-ID: <20020111144636.14188.cpmta@c015.snv.cp.net> On Thu, 10 January 2002, Scott Dier wrote: > > * Bob Tanner [020111 00:21]: > > Quoting Clay Fandre (cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org): > > > Anyone using/used f2w? How does it compare to other helpdesk apps? > > > http://f2w.sourceforge.net/ > > > > If anyone is using this, I'd like to hear a review. > > ditto. However it will be rough if it didn't have a gtk frontend or > something to use too :| cmd line would be cool also. > I've been planning to look at this for a while. I'll try and get it setup on a laptop and bring it to the installfest next month. Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jan 11 10:02:33 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hosed system In-Reply-To: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <1010762368.8129.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 22:40, Paul Harris wrote: > I > checked and it didn't have write enabled for group, so I > made a lucky guess at the correct CHMOD syntax and fixed? > that. It was also complaining about not having a > /dev/input/mice, so I created that as a link to /dev/ttyS3. > Don't know if it's relevant, but ls -l ttyS* said that all > four ports were dialout? you shouldn't have linked /dev/ttyS3 to /dev/input/mice <-- that's for USB, you should have edited your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file to reflect your setup. In most cases debian's "dexconf" (i think it's called) will get you very close, but XF86Config-4 usually requires hacking. > > So I logged in (still su to root) and got X, KDE etc., but a > big fuzzy block where my mouse pointer should be. So I > exited out of root, and startx as myself. My monitor clicks > as it changes resolution, then a black screen. And that's > it. No ctrl-alt-del, ctrl-alt-bksp, or (ctrl)-alt-F(1-7) > has any effect, and I have to hard reboot. But as I use KDM > this takes me straight back to the same place. Generally debian defaults to only being able to run X as root (via gdm, xdm or the like) one way is to setuid the xserver binary (not the most secure), use one of the display mangers, or edit the security settings for X (can't remember how to do these off the top of my head and I should be configuring my new nfs server quotas instead of emailing this useless drivel to the mailing list :-) > > I tried rescue from the debian setup disk, but this takes me > to the same place (not what I was expecting). So, any > suggestions on how to get in to fix it, and what should I > fix?! Rescue discs are for things like file system corruption, broken unbootable kernels and stuff like that. If you can get booted normally to a shell, you can fix most anything. I've even replace a /usr/lib/* once or twice after a FS corruption. You seem quite new, trying not to sound like a redhat bigot (which I have recently become) I'd like to suggest you try redhat-7.2 or one of the other more "newbie friendly" distros like mandrake or even (*shudder*) SuSE. At least until you're more experienced and know how to find your own solutions to problems. Still, the best way to learn is to break shit and figure out how to fix it. Please direct your browser at http://www.linuxdoc.org and http://www.google.com/linux/ the former is a great source of linux documentation in howto format, and the latter is a great resource. Simply plug an error message into google.com/linux/ magic search bar and you will be greeted with a plethora of mailing list queries and answers as well as a whole host of helpful linkage. Happy hacking. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/8cc814b6/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Fri Jan 11 10:14:07 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <44555.198.74.20.75.1010619876.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net>; from nassarmu@redconcepts.net on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:44:36PM -0600 References: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E53781F1@DDMAIL> <44555.198.74.20.75.1010619876.squirrel@webmail.redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20020111093006.D13634@real-time.com> > I am not usually one to to bitch about this, but it is my opinion that you > should have picked a better subject line as this has nothing to do with > Linux or with Windows 2000. Nor has it anything to do with the TCO of > either. and here I've been ignoring this thread forever, because I thought it was some drivel about the Table Of Contents for ext2 & ntfs being the same. now I'm doubly glad I did. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 11 10:19:21 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <200201110522.g0B5Ma506767@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 Yaron wrote: > Well I'm finally going to have a house, and I'm thinking that wiring the > place up would be a better idea than running cable over the place, and > bulk cable/crimpers/jacks are cheaper than TWO wireless NICs and can > serve a whole buttload of machines. > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? I just recently finished installing a bunch of data outlets and network wiring in my house. My setup was fairly expensive, with a wall mounted rack and patch panel in the basement. The job also turned out to be more labor intensive than I had expected, taking about 1-2 solid days worth of work per data outlet. However, now that it's done, pretty much anywhere I sit down inside the house (except for the bathrooms) is within 10 feet of a data outlet. Although I used cat5e wires, the system is only cat5 rated because I had bought a cat5 patch panel and jacks last year and didn't bother replacing them (can always do that later if needed ...). Not a big deal right now because the network is only running at 10 Mbps anyway, using cheap rack-mounted hubs from the MPC surplus store: http://www.materialsprocessing.com/. The niftiest trick I figured out while doing this was to use PVC pipe as a cable raceway. PVC is easy to cut, so I cut the pipe in half lengthwise and used the half-pipes, mounted to the basement ceiling joists with PVC J-hooks, instead of expensive "cat5e compliant" wire raceway. Home Depot carries most of the stuff needed to do this type of project. The Home Depot in Bloomington, near 494 and Lyndale, is open 24 hours. Otherwise, check out MilesTek: http://www.milestek.com/. In addition to cat5 network wire, I'd recommend also installing satellite grade (RG6) coaxial cable. People who don't understand the value of network wiring might still be able to appreciate easy access to the TV antenna or whatever -- most of my data outlets supply four cat5 and two RG6 connections. On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 Scott Dier wrote: > Otherwise, I'll just tear the walls apart when we move :) In some rooms it is possible to avoid totally tearing walls apart by running the cable in the wall behind the baseboard, near the floor. I did this in several rooms by pulling off the baseboard and then removing the bottom couple inches of drywall (about 1" less than the height of the baseboard). However, in order to drill holes near the bottoms of the studs, I found it necessary to use a drill capable of cutting through nails (circle saw). Also got a shaft extension for the drill, to improve the angle at which the holes were drilled. I hope this helps ... Joel From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 11 10:20:03 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <1010716925.2099.0.camel@minime>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:42:04PM -0600 References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> <1010716925.2099.0.camel@minime> Message-ID: <20020111093612.B24005@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:42:04PM -0600, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > SPAM: Hit! (2.1 points) BODY: /this is not (?:spam|unsolicited)/i > > SPAM: Hit! (2 points) BODY: Claims "This is not spam" Not real familiar with spamassassin, but aren't these two rules largely redundant? Or does it evaluate the second using some method other than the regex in the first? -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 11 10:30:21 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hosed system In-Reply-To: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net>; from PaulHarris@Bigfoot.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:40:32PM -0800 References: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020111095623.C24005@sherohman.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 08:40:32PM -0800, Paul Harris wrote: > After a while I stumbled upon the fact > that I was still running v3. of X, rather than the 4 I had > thought (can you tell I'm a newbie?) Nope. That's a tricky bit. I'm still not entirely sure why my first attempt at upgrading my workstation at home from X3 to X4 failed and the second worked... > Don't know if it's relevant, but ls -l ttyS* said that all > four ports were dialout? Debian assigns ownership of all local serial ports to group dialout by default, presumably on the assumption that they're more likely to be used for modems than anything else. > My monitor clicks > as it changes resolution, then a black screen. And that's > it. No ctrl-alt-del, ctrl-alt-bksp, or (ctrl)-alt-F(1-7) > has any effect, and I have to hard reboot. But as I use KDM > this takes me straight back to the same place. If you've installed sshd and have another machine to connect from, you may be able to ssh into the machine and work on it that way. It's possible (particularly if you're using framebuffer or video acceleration) that the machine is still working fine, but the video subsystem has locked up. If that's the case, you'll still have to reboot to test new X configurations, but at least you'll be able to do an orderly shutdown. > I tried rescue from the debian setup disk, but this takes me > to the same place (not what I was expecting). So, any > suggestions on how to get in to fix it, and what should I > fix?! Start up the setup disk, but tell it to go into setup mode instead of booting to the existing installation. When it comes to the first screen after booting, hit alt-f2 to get another console, use it to mount your normal root partition, and (assuming for the moment that you mounted it under /mnt) edit /mnt/etc/init.d/kdm so that the first non-comment line is "exit 0". That will let you reboot your system without starting X. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From ndavis at iexposure.com Fri Jan 11 10:31:19 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201111556.g0BFue826567@destiny.iexposure.com> I went to home depot not long ago and got a 1000' roll of cat 5 for around $58. That is the best deal I have come across to date. I have used about half of that roll and have not had any problems with the cable. > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? > > TIA, > > -Yaron -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jan 11 10:34:34 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Saturday at the Twin City PC Users Group (TC/PC) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010762545.8129.2.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Thu, 2002-01-10 at 21:47, Terry Houle wrote: > It will begin at 9 AM and run till about 11:30 and TCLUG members are welcome > to come. Two TCLUG members have agreed to facilitate and it will kind of go > where the audience leads it. 9:30! what the heck? I'd like to go and help out but that seems kinda early. Who from the list is going and could they be persuaded to give me a lift to and from in exchange for lunch? -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/b497f68f/attachment.pgp From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 11 10:50:26 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hosed system In-Reply-To: <1010762368.8129.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> References: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <1010762368.8129.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <200201111643.g0BGhEC10168@RedConcepts.NET> After being a MicroCrap user for over 13 years I made the move to Linux last week and I am not looking back. Now I run Windows 2000 and Red Hat Linux 7.2 with KDE and I am a happy man. I do all my day to day stuff on Linux (email, news, Slashdot) and I use Windows only for some dedicated applications. Before this becomes too Off Topic I just want to second the opinion of using 7.2 as a newbie. It is a breeze to install. I was able to install it alongside Windows without too many problems. It is beautiful to watch. It is easy to use if WinBlows is all you know. I am sure there are other distributions of Linux and I suppose they are just as good, but I am not going to muck around with multiple installations or anything like that. At least not until I know more about controlling my system. So sit down, install Red Hat from Scratch and live the high life. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From thudak at autonomous.tv Fri Jan 11 10:52:08 2002 From: thudak at autonomous.tv (Thomas J. Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020111161504.GA4038@Ikarus> * Yaron (jethro@freakzilla.com) wrote: I just started this undertaking myself, I do highly recommend an electricians snake as was mentioned earlier. I found an 800' spool from Best communications of non-stranded cat5e for $48, by far the best place to go, they often times have large spools they've started making patches out of and sell them at a good price. Go with some multi-function wall plates that house coax and rj-11 as well so you can have everything run to the same spot, that's more a matter of taste than anything. Don't bother with a patch panel unless you really want a NOC ready house-hold to be used at a later date for more intensive purposes. If you don't see a need for more than 8 drops, go get a 10 port switch, they're not to expensive. The biggest hassle you'll find if it's a semi-old house fully finished is that a lot of areas are simply impossible to run cable to w/o making it noticeable but I've found duct-work to be the easiest points of entry to most rooms by far. Just make sure you can patch or fix whatever you decide to rip up, cuz you'll be tempted to start shredding at some points.. ;-) Good Luck! Congrats on the mortgage! Tom Hudak -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/b54db02c/attachment.pgp From fritchie at mr.net Fri Jan 11 11:50:37 2002 From: fritchie at mr.net (Scott Lystig Fritchie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: Message of "Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:16:21 CST." <20020109161620.B18415@visi.com> Message-ID: <200201111713.g0BHDS015745@snookles.snookles.com> [Sorry if this is a duplicate ... My reply early this morning was sent from the "wrong" address.... -Scott] Heh. As a former employee of Sendmail and someone who's done a lot of research an implementation on high-volume mail servers, I'd have a lot to say/type on the matter ... except for that darned tendinitis recovery problem. >>>>> "mb" == Michael Burns writes: mb> Anything, in my experience, is better than sendmail. qmail and mb> postfix are two. Er, Sendmail 8.11 and 8.12 has a "multiple queue directory" feature that hasn't received much publicity but can rival Postfix's speed despite still being a fork()-happy resource pig. :-) Back in May 2001, Sendmail's message delivery record on a *single* machine in *real* Internet conditions (i.e. not in a perfect lab environment) was 2.98 million messages/hour. That's about 825 messages/second. Average message size was 4.9KB. Rob Kolstad had a USENIX paper a few years ago about tuning Sendmail. Much of what it talks about is still valid, despite changing times and MTAs. I can't think of other public email tuning resources off the top of my head, though they do exist if you dig. For high volume delivery, touching disk == performance death. Period. So, avoid touching disk if you can. Most machines don't have non-volitile memory, so pure solid state disk or hybrid SSDs with hard disk backing store (and small batteries to keep the drive alive long enough to flush cache memory contents to that disk) are the way to go. But wait! Those things are expensive! Yup. But what if I need to queue more stuff than that? Then don't store it on SSD: move it elsewhere. Sendmail has a "fallback host" feature: if delivery fails on the first attempt, forward the message to the fallback. The fallback has a good disk system for delivery queue storage, but doesn't need SSD. You *know* (or **hope**) most of your messages are delivered on the first attempt, and you *know* this small fraction remaining are going to have to wait, so you tune the fallback hardware much differently than your first-attempt server(s). I don't know if other MTAs have the fallback feature, but for high volume outgoing delivery, it's wonderful. Gotta run, but, er, my $0.02 on other advice I've read on this list: * File system choice makes a huge difference. You must decide how important it is to recover queued messages in event of an OS crash or hardware failure. Friends don't let friends who care about data integrity use ext2fs. (See Dug Song's comments on this in a recent /.-publicized interview.) GFS, spiffy as it is, won't give you the file ops you need for 825 msgs/second. Softupdates (which *are* quite data safe when using fsync(), as paraniod app writers have to be) or Veritas's VxFS + SSD or random-disk-I/O-designed-and-tuned RAID is quite marvelous. * RAID: You're I/O bound due to random disk activity, reads & writes, not bulk data throughput. If you have a 500GB RAID array for queueing, you have too much disk space, but you can't help that because you can't buy 2GB disks anymore. Striping gives spreads the seek activity the most. Mirror on top of that if you care about crash recovery. If you use parity, you deserve what you get. If you take that array and stripe it over 8 60B drives, what a deal. But (I'm exaggerating here to make a point!) you're better off striping it across 60 8GB drives. * 15K RPM drives won't help nearly as much as lots of slower spinning drives will, and you won't have to worry about your machine room catching fire. * Your drives shouldn't be IDE drives unless you want to deserve what you get. * Most people don't pay attention to their SMTP server's DNS servers. Silly people! How on earth to you expect to figure huge volumes of email without being able to resolve high volumes of DNS records? And cache that info damn well & quickly, despite whatever efforts your MTA makes? Silly, silly.... * Don't bother configuring your MTA (or the servers they run on) to use or provide IDENT protocol services (RFC 1413). * Mosix's process migration probably won't help because most MTAs fork processes often, and they're short-lived. The resources & time you spend migrating the process can be much more than it's worth. * Most file systems have some sort of structure similar to FFS's "cylinder group". Configure the stripe width on your RAID subsystem such that all cylinder groups fall across *all* drives. It's amazing how often sysadmins screw this up. "Hey, Dave, why does the blinkenlight on that one RAID member blink so much more often than any of the others?" * Your boxes have room for more RAM? And you haven't bought more yet? What are you thinking? Each forked process, open file descriptor, buffered disk page, socket, pipe, DNS cache entry, ad infinitum takes space, right? - -Scott ------- End of Forwarded Message From fish at slava.net Fri Jan 11 11:51:14 2002 From: fish at slava.net (Lorry Lee Strother) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MP3's and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020110185241.D9277@wookimus.net> References: <20020110155052.A14919@slava.net> <20020110185241.D9277@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020112111052.A459@slava.net> Sorry :( *tomato red embarassed face* not intentionally sent to the list On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:52:41PM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom typed: > On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:50:53PM -0600, Lorry Lee Strother wrote: > > here t'is. > > Why are you sending the list Star Office Documents? > > -- > Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie > http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr > Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Fri Jan 11 11:54:15 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! Message-ID: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com> Amen. http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/10/1711238&mode=thread From natecars at real-time.com Fri Jan 11 12:02:37 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <200201111556.g0BFue826567@destiny.iexposure.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Nick Davis wrote: > I went to home depot not long ago and got a 1000' roll of cat 5 for > around $58. That is the best deal I have come across to date. I have > used about half of that roll and have not had any problems with the > cable. PVC or Plenum (need I even ask? :) Stranded or solid? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Jan 11 12:41:52 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 natecars@real-time.com wrote: > PVC or Plenum (need I even ask? :) Might as well tell me the difference. I've never heard of 'plenum' before I started looking into this stuff. > Stranded or solid? go with advantages and disadvantages here too (; -Yaron -- From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jan 11 12:44:45 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! In-Reply-To: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com>; from cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 11:16:44AM -0600 References: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020111120913.E24005@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 11:16:44AM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > Amen. > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/10/1711238&mode=thread ...and the linked article doesn't diplay without JavaScript turned on. RMS says requiring you to use Word to read your mail is bad, and we require you to use JavaScript to read the story. Idjits. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 12:51:29 2002 From: tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net (B T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: Message-ID: <3C3F2C42.E67347D5@mn.mediaone.net> Well as far as wiring, I was able to pick up 1000' of cat 5e at Home Despot for $48, as for they rest the only real suggestion I can give you is run all the cabling to one central place I put my stuff in an unused closet in the basement with a switch hub, and leave enough room on the through holes to run fiber later. From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jan 11 13:24:55 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020110200213.GA6374@Ikarus>; from thudak@autonomous.tv on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:06:18PM -0600 References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110200213.GA6374@Ikarus> Message-ID: <20020111124250.H25681@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:06:18PM -0600, Thomas J. Hudak wrote: > 2 Boxen, go with 2 PIII 800's, each with 512M ram and a 10 gig ide > drive. Remember, the machines don't need to be powerful, the speed comes > from the IO backend and the network capabilities. > Just for input, PIII 800's are around $105 (133mhz bus) or $115 for the 100mhz bus chips, you'll also have a hard time finding slot 1 motherboards anymore, I'd personally go with a 1.3Ghz P4 (if you're one of those people who hate AMD) or a 1.4Ghz Athlon (266mhz bus) for $94 (I'm an AMD lover). Good prices can be found at http://www.pricewatch.com > Research raid arrays, smaller arrays, ie 60-120 Gig are not as expensive > as you may think, otherwise you may just want an external JBOD full of > big disks. > > You'll want scsi cards in your two machines so you can connect each to > the array/JBOD at the same time. > > Use a stable variety of linux for your servers, I'd say debian stable > due to it's reliable nature and ease of upgradeability. > > Make your array/JBOD into an LVM logical volume, that way you'll be able > to expand it's size on-the-fly when you choose to add more storage > resulting in less downtime. Use GFS (www.sistina.com <-- plug plug) as > your file-system as this is what it was designed for, reliability and > redundancy. Without getting to nitty-gritty, you should be able to setup > a secure redundant mini-cluster able to fit the needs of a high-volume > smtp relay with the ability to easily expand it's capabilities in the > future. > Figuring for 32K block size, each message claimed to be 7K, he could easily store 3,750,000 messages, with $MAIL_DAEMON set to just expire messages not delivered after say, 12 hours (he said after 3-4 they were useless) that's quite a bit of room to grow. (assuming a 120G drive dedicated to mail) I'm not sure how important raid would be for long-term data reliability considering his comments about it being useless after a short amount of time. Also, I would recommend a caching nameserver on a nearby (ie, lan) box with a lot of memory for quick repeated lookups of MX entries and whatnot. -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From jts at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 11 13:27:54 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <200201110522.g0B5Ma506767@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 Yaron wrote: > Well I'm finally going to have a house Congratulations on the house! Please pardon my long soliloquy from this morning -- just trying to be helpful :) Joel From tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 13:28:29 2002 From: tmechanic at mn.mediaone.net (B T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: Message-ID: <3C3F34CD.A684B905@mn.mediaone.net> Plenum cable is fireproof and doesn't give off poisonous fumes when it gets hot. The pipe he was talking about is PVC, plenum is just HVAC ducting. Biggest disadvantage of solid wire is after you bend it a few times it gets brittle and breaks easily. From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jan 11 13:29:22 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <20020111094628.A25008@mtu.net>; from jpschewe@mtu.net on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:46:28AM -0500 References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> <20020111094628.A25008@mtu.net> Message-ID: <20020111124828.I25681@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:46:28AM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > Interesting thing to note. Razor considered this message, the followup and a > message on DHCP spam. Is someone on the list accidentally submitting > messages to razor? > Considering the list is closed to non-subscribers I'd recommend not even running razor-check on them, i pre-sort closed lists to their folders then run the remaining through razor-check, reducing load on their servers, and bypassing false positives. -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 14:04:33 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: Message-ID: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> You'll love it. And its a good idea to do it right away (if you have the time and $$). More of a pain later when when you're settled in. Suggestions .. Don't screw up the value of the house. - You're almost certain to sell it and upgrade eventually. This is not difficult. Just be smart about it and don't just hack 'n slash because you're eager to get a lan party going :^) - Check with your city wiring codes. There are situations (like going between floors) where certain kinds of cables or structure are required. In some cities, you can't sell a house until it passes code. - Take the time to do it decently. Don't duct tape the wire to pipes because you don't want to take 15 minutes to go to the hardware store for wire hangers. Stay with the project until all the trim is back on, the holes in the walls are patched, etc. - If you have never done wiring, make sure to connect with someone who knows what they're doing. Its not rocket science but ... Do a basic plan first - where will your servers go - where's your wiring closet(s) - where in each room should outlets go (i.e., where will the computers go) - consider including video & phone in the wiring closet. - do you have enough power where you need it - do you want a clean circuit to your pc's? Purchasing - Home Depot was good for wiring when I looked (but find out if your city requires plenum grade??) - IMHO Cat5 is good enough but I'd go with 5e or 6 if the cost difference is small. Gives you some tolerance. - Look for bulk wall jacks somewhere else. Both Home Depot & Menards seem very pricy. - patch panel. - about $50 at Micro Warehouse. - patch cables - mail order. Example: www.pccables.com - 1ft - .55, 3ft - .95, 7ft - 1.59 Use the T568A wiring pattern (vs. T568B). I'm finding some SOHO stuff that is just wire-coded for T568A. Most Important - after you have your basic plan figured out, ...get a bid. You may be able to have it done for close to what you'll pay for materials. Yaron wrote: > Hey all, > > Well I'm finally going to have a house, and I'm thinking that wiring the > place up would be a better idea than running cable over the place, and > bulk cable/crimpers/jacks are cheaper than TWO wireless NICs and can > serve a whole buttload of machines. > > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? > > TIA, > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ndavis at iexposure.com Fri Jan 11 14:05:42 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201111925.g0BJPIo16590@destiny.iexposure.com> On Friday 11 January 2002 11:27, you wrote: > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Nick Davis wrote: > > I went to home depot not long ago and got a 1000' roll of cat 5 for > > around $58. That is the best deal I have come across to date. I have > > used about half of that roll and have not had any problems with the > > cable. > > PVC or Plenum (need I even ask? :) > > Stranded or solid? The box of cable I bought is: Riser Cat5e 4 pair 24 guage and it's solid. Current home depot prices: cat5e riser = $57/1000' cat5e plenum = $155/1000' This is from the home depot web site. Under: Electrical / Wire / Datacom Wire / -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From steveg at transition.com Fri Jan 11 14:39:07 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> Bob it looks like the folks at Amazon agree with you. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20011030/tc/amazon_linux_saved_us_millions_1 .html I wonder if the downturn in the economy will end up being really hard on the likes of Microsoft. When times are good spending $1000 per seat for software isn't such a big deal, when times get tough the story changes. This would be a major consideration for anyone either starting a new company or thinking about upgrades to, cough, choke, XP. I would think that the TOC of Linux would be lower just because once you get it setup you don't have to patch it twice a week for new found security holes. In this reguard I think linux on the desktop really shines in that most patches or security updates seem to apply to the server software and not desktop stuff. With MS it seems that you end up spending equal time patching both servers and desktops. I can't speak to the UNIX issues, I have no experience with it. So in short (too late) I guess I agree with you. But then again I have only been using linux for a few months so what the heck do I know. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@real-time.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:21 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011030/tc/tech_intel_napster_dc_2.html "In any case, using Linux is not much cheaper than Windows 2000. Although Linux as an operating system is free, the real costs are related to the computers, and support and maintenance, he said." I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to let the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then Win2k. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ndavis at iexposure.com Fri Jan 11 15:09:37 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> References: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <200201112024.g0BKOeo23217@destiny.iexposure.com> > - Check with your city wiring codes. There are situations (like going > between floors) where certain kinds of cables or structure are required. > In some cities, you can't sell a house until it passes code. Does anyone know the relevant wiring codes for Minneapolis of the top of your head? -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From wilson at visi.com Fri Jan 11 15:10:26 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Douglas Mosman wrote: > Use the T568A wiring pattern (vs. T568B). I'm finding some SOHO stuff that is > just wire-coded for T568A. Anybody know the history of the A and B patterns? I've always used B (that's what someone told me to use a few years ago), but I don't know if it's better. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From mbresnah at visi.com Fri Jan 11 15:27:49 2002 From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! In-Reply-To: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com> Message-ID: At least with Word 2000, if you save as HTML you will get HTML that is only parseable by Microsoft products, e.g. Internet Explorer. If you try to view the HTML with for example Netscape, you will see a mess. In fact, I have yet to find any automated way to convert a Word 2000 document to HTML that looks the same in Internet Explorer and Netscape 4.7x. I even tried evals of commercial software and had no luck. CAVEAT: Netscape 6.2 can view Word 2000 HTML just fine (perhaps because they were forced to support a bunch of Microsoft HTML extensions?). Also interesting, Macromedia Dreamweaver comes with a tool to clean-up HTML produced by Word. Apparently Word produces HTML loaded with redundant constructs and Microsoft specific features. Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Clay Fandre > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:17 AM > To: tclug-list > Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! > > > Amen. > http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/10/1711238&mode=thread > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Fri Jan 11 15:30:04 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <01e201c19ae1$414d7940$47646496@dart> You might try Americable for local on the patch cables. I don't know if they sell to individuals or not, but I have been buying cable from them for work for better than 10 years now. They are in Bloomington on Old Shakopee Road. Phone 952-942-3800. Not as cheap as this example, but no freight and available now and in the colors you want :) > - patch cables - mail order. Example: www.pccables.com - 1ft - .55, 3ft - .95, > 7ft - 1.59 > From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 11 15:36:43 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> I am by no means a Linux, or Windows, expert. I am a Linux (and Windows) user and while I personally think Linux is the best thing since sliced bread it still poses problems. For one; installing software. It is a pain. You have to unzip your tarballs, unpackage your RPMs and whatever else you do with Debian and start installing. In many cases you have to compile the source code and then install the binaries. (If I am understanding the process right.) Under Windows it was usualy a simple process. You got your file 'bloatware.exe' you double-clicked on it and presto it was going. Note: I am not saying that the Windows method was better, only that it was easier. For a newbie (Myself and those you want to convert to Linux) this is a stumbling block. I understand why compiling the sourcecode is better and why the whole process is better, but there has to be a way of automating the whole thing, neh? Is it that impossible to have an application or utility that has all the steps on a visual interface? I can't imagine so, I remember being able to make simple enough batch files in MS-DOS in the late eighties, these files could handle batch jobs such as Formatting, labeling and copying certain files. Of course it is possible that I am completely off base here, but isn't the process for installing software under linux (compiling, installing and 'make clean') really a batch process? If Linux is to take become a more serious contender there has to be a concerted effort to make it easily accessible for the newbie. I still can't install the Java Runtime Environment and it is ticking me off. (Open Office needs Java.) A Stranger in a Strange LUG Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Fri Jan 11 15:47:43 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! In-Reply-To: <20020111120913.E24005@sherohman.org> References: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com> <20020111120913.E24005@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020111211601.GA20572@lemongecko.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 12:09PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > ...and the linked article doesn't diplay without JavaScript turned > on. ?? It worked for me when I read it with JavaScript turned on. I certainly agree with the editorial, though. Fortunately I almost never get Word documents -- the last time was last semester when the U of M athletic department sent me an email. I pretended to not be able to read it (StarOffice, antiword...) and emailed them asking for a readable version. They never responded. *shrug* Those that point out that the PDF is as proprietary as the Word format are quite correct, but at least the specification is open, and I can generate nice PDFs with my good friend pdflatex. :) Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/cd258b65/attachment.pgp From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Jan 11 15:55:10 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> Message-ID: <1010781884.16213.7.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2001-10-31 at 09:54, Steve Grobe wrote: > Bob it looks like the folks at Amazon agree with you. > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20011030/tc/amazon_linux_saved_us_millions_1 > .html For whatever reason, the story appears to be gone from the server. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jan 11 16:01:34 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <20020111124828.I25681@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com> <006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> <20020111094628.A25008@mtu.net> <20020111124828.I25681@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1010781991.8129.16.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 12:48, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Considering the list is closed to non-subscribers I'd recommend not even running > razor-check on them, i pre-sort closed lists to their folders then run the remaining > through razor-check, reducing load on their servers, and bypassing false positives. it's hard to whitelist this list because the From is set to the original sender. If it wasn't I could do whitelist_from *@mn-linux.com in my spamassassin.prefs -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/bb82135d/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jan 11 16:19:06 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010785907.10968.25.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 16:10, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > At least with Word 2000, if you save as HTML you will get HTML that is only > parseable by Microsoft products, e.g. Internet Explorer. If you try to view > the HTML with for example Netscape, you will see a mess. In fact, I have > yet to find any automated way to convert a Word 2000 document to HTML that > looks the same in Internet Explorer and Netscape 4.7x. I even tried evals > of commercial software and had no luck. CAVEAT: Netscape 6.2 can view Word > 2000 HTML just fine (perhaps because they were forced to support a bunch of > Microsoft HTML extensions?). Knowing all this as you do, I still see the following: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) in your emails.... Go figure. :-) > Also interesting, Macromedia Dreamweaver comes with a tool to clean-up HTML > produced by Word. Apparently Word produces HTML loaded with redundant > constructs and Microsoft specific features. > -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/1419f95b/attachment.pgp From list at slushpupie.com Fri Jan 11 16:26:42 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <20020111215941.0D0D428ECA@thursday.freeze.com> > Is it that impossible to have an application or utility that has all the > steps on a visual interface? I can't imagine so, I remember being able to > make simple enough batch files in MS-DOS in the late eighties, these files > could handle batch jobs such as Formatting, labeling and copying certain > files. Of course it is possible that I am completely off base here, but > isn't the process for installing software under linux (compiling, > installing and 'make clean') really a batch process? Unfortunetly thats what the RPM was supposed to do. (sigh) But there is hope, more and more source distributed software is getting batched. I think the problem is really with who develops this stuff. The people writing the software think "./configure --prefix=/opt/bloadware --sysconfig=/etc; CC_OPTS=-I/home/person/include make all test install" is just as easy as clicking on a box that does it all for you. They are programmers, so this is what they do all day. Many times it just takes someone else that knows how to batch things together in an intelegent way to put together an installer. But as most Linux projects are low budget (ie- student in dorm working for free) this isnt likely to happen for many applications. But hey, winex has a decent install script... just give it time. Jay From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jan 11 16:32:24 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: ; from mike@Jentges.NET on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:06:58AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020111153337.J25681@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:06:58AM -0600, MJ wrote: > > > Hi Yaron! > > Congrats on the new mortgage! > Here I just have cat 5e that I got a spool of at Menards. 1000ft if I > remember right, about $80. You paid too much =) > I didn't get fancy with patch panels, just some biege > boxes that mount on the wall with 6 jacks. These things can house coax, > rj11 and rj45 jacks, probably more. The jacks themselves are just inserts > that fit in the beige box. These same inserts fit in the wall plates as > well. If you need more than 6, and have a big budget, then you might > indeed want to look at patch panels. I got all this stuff at > Menards. Personally, as far as hubs/switches go, I'd stay away from any > linksys stuff. Both mine and a friends turned out to be total garbage. The inserts work great, and yes, the linksys units are crap. CAT5e should work for 99% of peoples homes, twi or three pulls per room is fine, anything more than that you should be using a small switch, you can buy decently priced cat5e at home depot, along with toners (for figuring out which cable is which) along with IDEAL crimpers (Cat No 30-496). A visit to graybar will cost you less (www.graybar.com), don't judge them on their website, it tends to be rather slow and incomplete. As a side note, I tried buying a cheap set of crimpers while away from my tools from Menards, (you know, the plastic made in china ones) they didn't work. I also purchased 100' of cat5e there, and it had a break in it somewhere that caused me to waste some RJ45 ends thinking it must be my work, and not the cable. Hopefully this is not indicative of products at menards (although their SAVE BIG MONEY AT MENARDS! commercials are driving me mad) > > Again, congrats! > > Mike Jentges > -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Jan 11 16:36:26 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <1010786762.16213.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 15:09, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > I am by no means a Linux, or Windows, expert. > > I am a Linux (and Windows) user and while I personally think Linux is the > best thing since sliced bread it still poses problems. > > For one; installing software. It is a pain. You have to unzip your tarballs, > unpackage your RPMs and whatever else you do with Debian and start > installing. In many cases you have to compile the source code and then > install the binaries. (If I am understanding the process right.) > > Under Windows it was usualy a simple process. You got your file > 'bloatware.exe' you double-clicked on it and presto it was going. > > Note: I am not saying that the Windows method was better, only that it was > easier. > > For a newbie (Myself and those you want to convert to Linux) this is a > stumbling block. > > I understand why compiling the sourcecode is better and why the whole process > is better, but there has to be a way of automating the whole thing, neh? Well, yeah. Under Mandrake, there's MandrakeUpdate, and package manager, which handles the installation from rpm real well. > > Is it that impossible to have an application or utility that has all the > steps on a visual interface? I can't imagine so, I remember being able to > make simple enough batch files in MS-DOS in the late eighties, these files > could handle batch jobs such as Formatting, labeling and copying certain > files. Of course it is possible that I am completely off base here, but isn't > the process for installing software under linux (compiling, installing and > 'make clean') really a batch process? Sure: just create a shell script that runs ./configure make make install . . . and that'll work for most tarballs. > > If Linux is to take become a more serious contender there has to be a > concerted effort to make it easily accessible for the newbie. I still can't > install the Java Runtime Environment and it is ticking me off. (Open Office > needs Java.) I installed JRE as part of installing StarOffice beta, and it works just fine under Open Office, which is what I'm mainly using for real work. > > A Stranger in a Strange LUG > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From foeclan at visi.com Fri Jan 11 16:37:43 2002 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <1010781884.16213.7.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: Probably because it's one of the posts from October 31st, and the link is for an article on 10/30/2001. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com On 11 Jan 2002, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > On Wed, 2001-10-31 at 09:54, Steve Grobe wrote: > > Bob it looks like the folks at Amazon agree with you. > > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20011030/tc/amazon_linux_saved_us_millions_1 > > .html > > > For whatever reason, the story appears to be gone from the server. > > > > > ------------------------------------- > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. > ------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Jan 11 16:39:49 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Volume Mail Relay In-Reply-To: <20020111124250.H25681@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020110200213.GA6374@Ikarus> <20020111124250.H25681@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1010779870.16277.3.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 12:42, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Figuring for 32K block size, each message claimed to be 7K, he could easily > store 3,750,000 messages, with $MAIL_DAEMON set to just expire messages > not delivered after say, 12 hours (he said after 3-4 they were useless) > that's quite a bit of room to grow. (assuming a 120G drive dedicated to mail) > > I'm not sure how important raid would be for long-term data reliability > considering his comments about it being useless after a short amount of time. > I don't think that the purpose of RAID, in this case, is for data reliability, which doesn't sound like the key to this issue, but for increased I/O performance. Depending on how smart caching really is, throwing a lot of memory at the problem might be even more rewarding, and one way to make sure that that would scale up would be to set this up on a Mosix cluster. My entirely amateur understanding is that this sort of process generates a lot of threads/processes that might well benefit from parallelizing -- and if it does, the answer to increased demand on the server would probably be, "well, let's just add some nodes and add some more RAID arrays." But I could be wrong. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Fri Jan 11 17:40:23 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: cleaning up Word-generated HTML (was: Re: [TCLUG] No more word!) In-Reply-To: References: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020111223239.GA21025@lemongecko.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 02:10PM -0800, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > In fact, I have > yet to find any automated way to convert a Word 2000 document to HTML that > looks the same in Internet Explorer and Netscape 4.7x. HTML Tidy[1] says that it has features to scrub the naughty bits of HTML out of Word-generated email. I've never used it for that, but for general purpose cleanup of HTML, it's very nice -- fixes open tags, catches errors, etc. The original HTML Tidy page is at [2]; it's quite useful. > Also interesting, Macromedia Dreamweaver comes with a tool to clean-up HTML > produced by Word. Apparently Word produces HTML loaded with redundant > constructs and Microsoft specific features. HTML Tidy (almost) comes from the W3C, so it strives for super-standards compliant HTML, which should be readable in any browser. Dan [1]. http://tidy.sf.net [2]. http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/434e4ec8/attachment.pgp From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Jan 11 17:42:01 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! Message-ID: Cheap shot! Some of us don't get to choose our mailers. :-( >>> blutgens@sistina.com 01/11/02 03:51PM >>> Knowing all this as you do, I still see the following: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) in your emails.... Go figure. :-) From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 11 17:43:51 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20020111215941.0D0D428ECA@thursday.freeze.com> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> <20020111215941.0D0D428ECA@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <200201112239.g0BMdAC27186@RedConcepts.NET> Ok, so I have another basic question. What is needed to make this packaging? I'd be more than happy to learn on my own. all it needs is 4 or 5 buttons. 'open file' + './config' + 'make install' + 'make clean' Or is this impossible to do without getting 'intro to Unix' and 'intro to C++' books? Was lost, now feel like Alice in Wonderland. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From nassarsa at redconcepts.net Fri Jan 11 19:00:49 2002 From: nassarsa at redconcepts.net (Samir M. Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201120023.g0C0NHC08896@RedConcepts.NET> Mr. Johnsons email came from work. Instead of ragging on him for using the tools available, why not organize a presentation to the Department of Health to give them a good word about Linux. As another step, why not offer to help them with the transition if they choose to adopt Linux. You can tell them, that if the NSA sees fit to use Linux then then Department of Health should have no problem in using it. Especially for confidential and private information. People have mentioned that Linux might be a contestant for the desktop market, why not start marketing it on the local level to the local agencies. Who would be better to do these things than the LUG? Just my 0.02 Euros. Samir M. Nassar RedConcepts.NET From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 19:05:59 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <02011115593200.01512@edith> On Friday 11 January 2002 15:09, you wrote: > I am by no means a Linux, or Windows, expert. > > I am a Linux (and Windows) user and while I personally think Linux is the > best thing since sliced bread it still poses problems. > > For one; installing software. It is a pain. You have to unzip your > tarballs, unpackage your RPMs and whatever else you do with Debian and > start installing. In many cases you have to compile the source code and > then install the binaries. (If I am understanding the process right.) > > Under Windows it was usualy a simple process. You got your file > 'bloatware.exe' you double-clicked on it and presto it was going. > > Note: I am not saying that the Windows method was better, only that it was > easier. > > For a newbie (Myself and those you want to convert to Linux) this is a > stumbling block. > I am a newly converted Debian user (not all my boxes run Debian, for the most part they run Slackware, but they might just be running Debian soon). I know where you are coming from. It does take time and effort to learn how to compile and install software. If you can get past the Debian installation process without a hitch, a wonderfull world awaits you with: apt-get install pkgname I was blown away by its ability to completely upgrade the box I was setting up from an old set of Debian CD's I bought online in about 15 minutes (w/ a cable modem). Some questions get asked if you are setting up a new server (i.e. mail server or the like), but the questions asked are no more difficult than the ones asked in a typical MS proggie install. No bloatware, just the package and it's dependencies (the dpkg even allows you to substitute other packages to satisfy some of the requirements, but I am not proficient at dpkg yet). I can install a new game for my daughter on her machine at home (Debian) box from anywhere I have a net connection and an ssh client on a floppy... Try doing that on a Windows box from a remote location! Just so darn happy with Debian that I had to share with everyone!!! :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 11 19:08:08 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] smarter dhcp client? In-Reply-To: <20020111012320.5504a8dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> References: <20020111012320.5504a8dd.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020111182807.61656062.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Well, I went and made it myself.. Since my laptop has a built-in 3Com card, I set up an expect script to work with Donald Becker's mii-diag program when it is running in `--watch' mode. It's definitely not as sane as it could be, but for taking a whole 20 minutes to do, I figure it's not bad (though don't try to get me to do any more work on it.. :-p) I put mii-diag into /usr/local/bin, along with a script named expect-dhclient: #!/usr/bin/expect -f eval spawn /usr/local/bin/mii-diag --watch eth0 while {1} { expect { "Good link" { system /sbin/ifup eth0 } "have link beat" { system /sbin/ifup eth0 } "no link" { system /sbin/ifdown eth0 } "not established" { system /sbin/ifdown eth0 } } } To have it start on boot, I made a file /etc/init.d/fake-dhclient, and made appropriate startup/kill symlinks for it: #!/bin/sh -e case "$1" in start) touch /var/log/fake-dhclient /usr/local/bin/expect-dhclient 2>&1 > /var/log/fake-dhclient & ;; stop) killall expect-dhclient ;; restart|reload|force-reload) ;; esac Finally, I noticed that the mii-diag program would die whenever I did a suspend/resume, so I made another script for the APM daemon in /etc/apm/event.d/: #!/bin/sh if [ "$1" = "resume" ]; then /etc/init.d/fake-dhclient start fi -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If speed scares you, try / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ Windows. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/0274e234/attachment.pgp From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Jan 11 19:11:48 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200201112239.g0BMdAC27186@RedConcepts.NET> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> <20020111215941.0D0D428ECA@thursday.freeze.com> <200201112239.g0BMdAC27186@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <20020111183616.71555ab9.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Samir M. Nassar" wrote: > > Ok, so I have another basic question. > > What is needed to make this packaging? I'd be more than happy to learn on my > own. > > all it needs is 4 or 5 buttons. 'open file' + './config' + 'make install' + > 'make clean' Well, since that process doesn't work for everything, it might be better to look at building an interface around the automated RPM build system. Lots of programs come with decent .spec files (a special configuration file that tells RPM how to build and package a program, what files go into the package, and what scripts to run when installing/removing). With Debian, I understand you can do something like `apt-get source -b ', which should download a package and build it. (I forget what the exact command is, as I usually just apt-get binary packages..) No matter what, build processes are still going to be hairy things.. The best you can hope for is a system that knows how to set up the right build environment, tweak the right environment variables, etc., and folks will still have to cross their fingers.. -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ To make an enemy, do / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ someone a favor. \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020111/801f076e/attachment.pgp From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 19:18:45 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> <200201112024.g0BKOeo23217@destiny.iexposure.com> Message-ID: <3C3F87E3.1D9F401E@mn.mediaone.net> I don't know but I thought they were very strict about getting permits & inspections. Was your seller required to have the house inspected and brought up to code before he could sell? Maybe someone else knows for sure? FYI - I also don't know when Minneapolis considers that you've crossed the line between "connecting two computers together" (informal activity) to "wiring a home" (needs city permit and inspection). Nick Davis wrote: > > - Check with your city wiring codes. There are situations (like going > > between floors) where certain kinds of cables or structure are required. > > In some cities, you can't sell a house until it passes code. > > Does anyone know the relevant wiring codes for Minneapolis of the top of your > head? > > -- > Nick Davis > Associate Systems Administrator > ndavis@iexposure.com > Internet Exposure, Inc. > http://www.iexposure.com > > (612)676-1946 > Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 19:19:24 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: Message-ID: <3C3F87F1.237F306@mn.mediaone.net> Found an article on the web a few months ago. Even printed it out. Can't find it now of course. So from memory... Basically, there's a structured wiring standard, often referred to as TIA 568-A. The confusing thing is that the TIA 568-A standard allows two wiring patterns, T568A and T568B. But this is not revision A and revision B. When the standard was originally created, they defined what is now called T568B. However, AT&T had a different wiring pattern. So they added the AT&T pattern as T568A. I went with T568B but recommended T568A because lately I've encountered some products where the manufacturer only color coded for T568A. Its a pain when your jacks are only coded for T658A and you have to chase down which color wires have to be switched and then remember it for each jack. The important thing is to pick either T568B or T568A and stick with it. I made sure to write down. I have a good memory but its kind of short :-) Tim Wilson wrote: > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Douglas Mosman wrote: > > > Use the T568A wiring pattern (vs. T568B). I'm finding some SOHO stuff that is > > just wire-coded for T568A. > > Anybody know the history of the A and B patterns? I've always used B > (that's what someone told me to use a few years ago), but I don't know > if it's better. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jan 11 19:22:09 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time Message-ID: <20020111170613.O21131@real-time.com> Real Time just got done performing an end of year clean-up. We have some used hardware FOR FREE! Yes, as in beer. You just have to come pick it up. We'll be open until tonight, Fri Jan 11, until 9pm for anyone who wants to stop by and pick the stuff over. 10181 Crosstown Circle Eden Prairie, MN 55344 Use fav mapping site for directions... -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jan 11 19:25:18 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hosed system In-Reply-To: <200201111643.g0BGhEC10168@RedConcepts.NET>; from nassarsa@redconcepts.net on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:51:55AM -0600 References: <20020110204033.24969.c000-h011.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <1010762368.8129.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> <200201111643.g0BGhEC10168@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <20020111170324.K25681@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:51:55AM -0600, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > So sit down, install Red Hat from Scratch and live the high life. > I'll second this, a new room mate offered to pay for half the cable inet bill if I'd help him with linux, so I sat down and installed RH 7.2 *with* him so that he didn't miss anything, beyond basic questions he has had no problems learning how to do things, and was impressed with FreeCiv, Tux Racer, Chromium etc.. He's been a windows user for quite a while but really doesn't know how to do much of anything. He hasn't booted back into W2k since we installed linux (I even setup RtCW and Quake3 for him).. > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From churchid at visi.com Fri Jan 11 19:44:07 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) In-Reply-To: <1010781991.8129.16.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: > it's hard to whitelist this list because the From is set to the original > sender. If it wasn't I could do > whitelist_from *@mn-linux.com in my spamassassin.prefs Couldn't you set something up based on the always present "[TCLUG]" in the Subject field? From jim at herrick.net Fri Jan 11 19:56:56 2002 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) References: <20020109172557.B21131@real-time.com><006001c19a40$6e7c0310$d129a541@host209> <20020111094628.A25008@mtu.net> <20020111124828.I25681@techmonkeys.org> <1010781991.8129.16.camel@titanium.sistina.com> Message-ID: <00c501c19b0a$1fe7fcc0$d129a541@host209> Yep, I have to use mn-linux.org in the FROM and TO headers in my procmail rule. In case anyone's interested, I'm VERY willing to share my procmail rules: First: http://mnjim.com/lists.rc.txt Second: http://mnjim.com/spam.rc.txt Please send feedback on my content, format, etc. Thanks! Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: Linux work for quick cash (no this is not spam!) From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Jan 11 20:36:34 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <200201112239.g0BMdAC27186@RedConcepts.NET> References: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07E@postman.transition.com> <200201112101.g0BL17C13654@RedConcepts.NET> <20020111215941.0D0D428ECA@thursday.freeze.com> <200201112239.g0BMdAC27186@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <1010800336.18844.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 16:47, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > Ok, so I have another basic question. > > What is needed to make this packaging? I'd be more than happy to learn on my > own. > > all it needs is 4 or 5 buttons. 'open file' + './config' + 'make install' + > 'make clean' > > Or is this impossible to do without getting 'intro to Unix' and 'intro to > C++' books? > > Was lost, now feel like Alice in Wonderland. > > Samir M. Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > _______________________________________________ Is this what you want? http://apps.kde.com/na/2/info/id/245 "Kconfigure simplifies compiling and installing software by providing a graphical interface. By clicking on the configure file Kconfigure will configure, make and install the sources using a graphical interface. " ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From mike at Jentges.NET Fri Jan 11 20:38:33 2002 From: mike at Jentges.NET (MJ) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C3F87F1.237F306@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: Or, don't advertise as "wired for data" and snip the crap when you sell the place. :) Mike Jentges On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Douglas Mosman wrote: > Found an article on the web a few months ago. Even printed it out. > Can't find it > now of course. > > So from memory... > > Basically, there's a structured wiring standard, often referred to as > TIA 568-A. > The confusing thing is that the TIA 568-A standard allows two wiring > patterns, T568A > and T568B. But this is not revision A and revision B. When the > standard was > originally created, they defined what is now called T568B. However, > AT&T had a > different wiring pattern. So they added the AT&T pattern as T568A. > > I went with T568B but recommended T568A because lately I've encountered > some > products where the manufacturer only color coded for T568A. Its a pain > when your > jacks are only coded for T658A and you have to chase down which color > wires have to > be switched and then remember it for each jack. > > The important thing is to pick either T568B or T568A and stick with it. > I made sure > to write down. I have a good memory but its kind of short :-) > > > Tim Wilson wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Douglas Mosman wrote: > > > > > Use the T568A wiring pattern (vs. T568B). I'm finding some SOHO stuff that is > > > just wire-coded for T568A. > > > > Anybody know the history of the A and B patterns? I've always used B > > (that's what someone told me to use a few years ago), but I don't know > > if it's better. > > > > -Tim > > > > -- > > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jima at gimp.damnation.net Fri Jan 11 20:42:27 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time In-Reply-To: <20020111170613.O21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Real Time just got done performing an end of year clean-up. We have some used > hardware FOR FREE! Yes, as in beer. You just have to come pick it up. Well, there isn't so much free hardware anymore. Sorry, folks; I was nearby. Jima From phil at rephil.org Fri Jan 11 20:43:45 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time In-Reply-To: <20020111170613.O21131@real-time.com>; from Bob Tanner on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 05:06:13PM -0600 References: <20020111170613.O21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020111201611.A15326@rephil.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 05:06:13PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Real Time just got done performing an end of year clean-up. We have some used > hardware FOR FREE! Yes, as in beer. You just have to come pick it up. > > We'll be open until tonight, Fri Jan 11, until 9pm for anyone who > wants to stop by and pick the stuff over. I'm not grousing -- free is free! -- but how do I know you're not trying to get me to drive the 35 miles from St. Paul to get a bunch of depreciated stuff that's so flaky Nate and Carl are tired of swearing at it? Either that, or maybe it's so cool you didn't say what it was because you don't want a flood of people who have to Indian wrestle for it. Which scenario is closest? ;) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From andy at theasis.com Fri Jan 11 21:23:32 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, there isn't so much free hardware anymore. Sorry, folks; I was > nearby. > > Jima well, at least describe the haul! Andy From churchid at visi.com Fri Jan 11 21:32:25 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C3F87F1.237F306@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: > Tim Wilson wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Douglas Mosman wrote: > > > > > Use the T568A wiring pattern (vs. T568B). I'm finding some > SOHO stuff that is > > > just wire-coded for T568A. > > > > Anybody know the history of the A and B patterns? I've always used B > > (that's what someone told me to use a few years ago), but I don't know > > if it's better. > > > > -Tim The only difference between T568A and T568B is that the green and orange wire pairs are switched. So, you only have to decide one scheme to use, and if you have components only labeled with the scheme you are not using, you only have to switch: white-orange with white-green orange with green Search the archives of this list. Wiring schemes have been thoroughly hashed over in recent months. -Dan From uak at nerp.net Fri Jan 11 21:33:09 2002 From: uak at nerp.net (Ursula A. Kallio) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > about $0s would you be willing to chip in $10 a head for rent and -if > there is enough left over- Pizza and Drinks? I am willing to chip in, if it comes to that. uak From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 22:13:30 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Was: High Volume Mail Relay Now: Mosix In-Reply-To: <1010779870.16277.3.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020111124250.H25681@techmonkeys.org> <1010779870.16277.3.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <02011121182300.01709@edith> On that note, has anybody used a Mosix cluster? What results are you seeing. I run a few machines full time at home for various tasks that need to be kept separate (i.e. different gateways to the internet) and I was wondering if I could set up a Mosix cluster to supplement my wife's box (running Slack 8) by having it use the cluster to speed up processes that spawn many sub-processes. Anybody doing something like this at work or home? Think it could be some fun to try. (Of course this may bend some peoples definition of fun!) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Friday 11 January 2002 14:11, you wrote: > On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 12:42, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Figuring for 32K block size, each message claimed to be 7K, he could > > easily store 3,750,000 messages, with $MAIL_DAEMON set to just expire > > messages not delivered after say, 12 hours (he said after 3-4 they were > > useless) that's quite a bit of room to grow. (assuming a 120G drive > > dedicated to mail) > > > > I'm not sure how important raid would be for long-term data reliability > > considering his comments about it being useless after a short amount of > > time. > > I don't think that the purpose of RAID, in this case, is for data > reliability, which doesn't sound like the key to this issue, but for > increased I/O performance. Depending on how smart caching really is, > throwing a lot of memory at the problem might be even more rewarding, > and one way to make sure that that would scale up would be to set this > up on a Mosix cluster. My entirely amateur understanding is that this > sort of process generates a lot of threads/processes that might well > benefit from parallelizing -- and if it does, the answer to increased > demand on the server would probably be, "well, let's just add some nodes > and add some more RAID arrays." > > But I could be wrong. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Fri Jan 11 22:17:08 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011121281701.01709@edith> Just buy a domain, and run your own MTA with its own domain and talk to it with encryption to mail to your work cronies. Have them send ical or vcal if you need the all important schedule applications (and have the added benefit of them not being able to micro-manage you by not allowing them to see your entire schedule). I did not do this at work as they allow relaying from the internal network and Sendmail on my box can handle talking to that old Exchange 5.5 for smtp outgoing mail and with pop mail still enabled, I can still pull down mail. Of course this is meant as a joke, but you have to admit, it would be fun. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Friday 11 January 2002 16:33, you wrote: > Cheap shot! > > Some of us don't get to choose our mailers. > > :-( > : > >>> blutgens@sistina.com 01/11/02 03:51PM >>> > > Knowing all this as you do, I still see the following: > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) > > in your emails.... Go figure. :-) From rudie at sihope.com Fri Jan 11 22:19:51 2002 From: rudie at sihope.com (K Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <3C3F87E3.1D9F401E@mn.mediaone.net> References: <3C3F3CC3.C4A3742D@mn.mediaone.net> <200201112024.g0BKOeo23217@destiny.iexposure.com> <3C3F87E3.1D9F401E@mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020111214557.13864ee5.rudie@sihope.com> On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:48:35 -0600 Douglas Mosman wrote: > I don't know but I thought they were very strict about getting permits & > inspections. Was your seller required to have the house inspected and > brought up > to code before he could sell? Maybe someone else knows for sure? > > FYI - I also don't know when Minneapolis considers that you've crossed > the line > between "connecting two computers together" (informal activity) to > "wiring a > home" (needs city permit and inspection). My two cents: As a homeowner and resident of Minneapolis, living in a 115 yr old house I have found out the following: you do need to pull a permit for wiring, you do not need to be a contractor to do so (homeowner can pull electrical permits) You can preform the work yourself you do not have to have the work inspected. This applies to standard wiring only, AFAIK no permit required for rewiring phone service. Basic assumption equates phone wiring with network wiring. And, no, I refrained from pulling a permit to rewire my house, but then again I also refrained from stringing cat5. I think I'll go wireless when time dictates necessity. -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@sihope.com | rudie@fastcomputers.tv http://fastcomputers.tv "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." - Carl Jung From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Jan 11 23:10:17 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Was: High Volume Mail Relay Now: Mosix In-Reply-To: <02011121182300.01709@edith> References: <20020109162140.1C2C128E4F@thursday.freeze.com> <20020111124250.H25681@techmonkeys.org> <1010779870.16277.3.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <02011121182300.01709@edith> Message-ID: <1010809836.18791.12.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Fri, 2002-01-11 at 21:18, Kelly Black wrote: > On that note, has anybody used a Mosix cluster? What results are you seeing. > I run a few machines full time at home for various tasks that need to be > kept separate (i.e. different gateways to the internet) and I was wondering > if I could set up a Mosix cluster to supplement my wife's box (running Slack > 8) by having it use the cluster to speed up processes that spawn many > sub-processes. I haven't done it, but I'm thinking about clustering the three machines on my home network. Most of the time, my wife's and daughter's machines aren't doing anything, and putting them to work would be kind of neat. The latest Mandrake cooker does come with rpms for mosix kernels and utilities. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From kbullock at ringworld.org Fri Jan 11 23:56:44 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No more word! References: <20020111171644.GJ4168@fandre.com> <20020111120913.E24005@sherohman.org> <20020111211601.GA20572@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <3C3FC766.2060607@ringworld.org> Dan Drake wrote: > Those that point out that the PDF is as proprietary as the Word format > are quite correct, but at least the specification is open, and I > can generate nice PDFs with my good friend pdflatex. :) I don't follow your statement. RMS's point is that Word's file format is not an open specification, and MS has used (il)legal means to prevent people from making it open. Adobe, on the other hand, while they do create the PDF specification, does publish said specification. And in the past, ghostscript has been known to support a new version of the spec before Adobe can release a new version of Acrobat to support it. PDF is therefore not *as* proprietary as the Word format. Note I make no claim that it's not proprietary. ;p Adobe could conceivably stop publishing the specifications, or just include extra unpublished features in Acrobat. But they haven't done that, because they want PDF to be used. (Note also the similar history of PostScript.) Sorry, don't mean to rant, I should go to bed :) But I think people's perception of PDF as being "as bad" as Word format might be keeping it from being more accepted. Then again, some people use PDF for things it should never be used for (Web publishing when printing with all layout maintained is not a necessity). But that's a whole other discussion :) Goodnight everybody! :) -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jan 12 00:02:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time In-Reply-To: <20020111201611.A15326@rephil.org>; from phil@rephil.org on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:16:11PM -0600 References: <20020111170613.O21131@real-time.com> <20020111201611.A15326@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020111233032.E12551@real-time.com> Quoting Phil Mendelsohn (phil@rephil.org): > On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 05:06:13PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > Real Time just got done performing an end of year clean-up. We have some used > > hardware FOR FREE! Yes, as in beer. You just have to come pick it up. > > > > We'll be open until tonight, Fri Jan 11, until 9pm for anyone who > > wants to stop by and pick the stuff over. > > I'm not grousing -- free is free! -- but how do I know you're not > trying to get me to drive the 35 miles from St. Paul to get a bunch of > depreciated stuff that's so flaky Nate and Carl are tired of swearing > at it? > > Either that, or maybe it's so cool you didn't say what it was because > you don't want a flood of people who have to Indian wrestle for it. > Which scenario is closest? ;) > Well, there was enough stuff that it would take too long to list it all. Most of it was older stuff. Good enough for home, not good enough for business. Free, is free, so no need to put any more effort into it then just posting. My exact comment at the office was, I just left a blood train, the hounds should be at the door anytime. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From eng at pinenet.com Sat Jan 12 07:24:14 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill at Midwest Electronics Message-ID: <01C19B35.7B09DB20.eng@pinenet.com> OK, so I'm an old fuddy dud. I went to Midwest Electronics yesterday, high tech central for me (5 years obsolete), and saw Ed there max out a P2 350MHz IBM. He plays with kfract (a fractal geometry program in KDE). He showed me, with some delight, how he can bury the CPU meter by setting the iteration level to about 100,000. Anyway, Midwest Electronics loves Linux and wants to expand the demos. Somebody came in their store suggesting the latest Mandrake (instead of my old SuSE 7.0). I think that is a good suggestion. Webserver, SQL server, and 2 mail servers. On Friday 11 January 2002 07:26 am, you wrote: > What do those machines do that maxes them out so? > > > Does anybody really need such a CPU?? Check your CPU load meter and you > > > will likely find a large excess capacity. > > > > We have four servers running at 85% CPU / 95% Mem for close to 15 hours a > > day- these are Dual 1.3GHz processor machines.. so I would have to say "yes," at least I do. > > Jay From eng at pinenet.com Sat Jan 12 09:44:24 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time Message-ID: <01C19B48.22BF5680.eng@pinenet.com> If my email didn't take 24 hours to get up here, I might have driven the 200 miles round trip to rummage through Real Time's junk. Not for beer though. Bail money is not in our budget so my wife might just leave me in the pokey. > > Real Time just got done performing an end of year clean-up. We have some used > > hardware FOR FREE! Yes, as in beer. You just have to come pick it up. > > > > We'll be open until tonight, Fri Jan 11, until 9pm for anyone who > > wants to stop by and pick the stuff over. > > I'm not grousing -- free is free! -- but how do I know you're not > trying to get me to drive the 35 miles from St. Paul to get a bunch of > depreciated stuff that's so flaky Nate and Carl are tired of swearing > at it? > > Either that, or maybe it's so cool you didn't say what it was because > you don't want a flood of people who have to Indian wrestle for it. > Which scenario is closest? ;) > Well, there was enough stuff that it would take too long to list it all. Most of it was older stuff. Good enough for home, not good enough for business. Free, is free, so no need to put any more effort into it then just posting. My exact comment at the office was, I just left a blood train, the hounds should be at the door anytime. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gmcdavid at winternet.com Sat Jan 12 11:13:59 2002 From: gmcdavid at winternet.com (Glenn McDavid) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Siemens Speedstream NIC and Cable Modem questions Message-ID: I made a mistake a while back: I bought a NIC simply because it said "Linux" on the box. Of course, when I finally opened it up I saw the fine print--it is supposed Linux _compatible_, but not _supported_, and there was no information about how to use it under any form of Linux. Grrrr.... Anyway, the thing is a Siemens SpeedStream 1020, PCI 10/100 Ethernet Adapter. Does anybody have any ideas about how to set it up with Slackware 8? A Google search turned up nothing. Thanks. A related question: At the beer meeting I had a very informative and pleasant conversation wth Paul and the gentleman sitting next to him at the end of the table (sorry, I have forgotten your name). The subject was using Linux with AT&T's cable modem service. So now I have what feels like a stupid question: What (in general) type of NIC) do I need to use a cable modem? Must I have a 10/100 PIC, or can I get by with an ISA 10 (NE 2000 clone, 3Com, etc.). I can arrange to have either a PCI or an ISA slot free, and I have a couple of the older NICs just sitting around. If I can use one of those with AT&T I won't worry so much about figuring out or replacing the Siemens. Thanks, Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid From gmcdavid at winternet.com Sat Jan 12 11:21:46 2002 From: gmcdavid at winternet.com (Glenn McDavid) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! In-Reply-To: <200201120023.g0C0NHC08896@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Samir M. Nassar wrote: > Mr. Johnsons email came from work. Instead of ragging on him for using the > tools available, why not organize a presentation to the Department of Health > to give them a good word about Linux. Quite right. Furthermore, he may not be in a position to advocate Linux there. I work for another local government and I know somebody there who got reprimanded for advocating Linux and was forbidden from giving a presentation about Linux at the Departmental education forum. The LAN admin management will not discuss any alternative to Microsoft. A few of us meet quietly sometimes and try to think of ways around this formidable obstacle :-(> > People have mentioned that Linux might be a contestant for the desktop > market, why not start marketing it on the local level to the local agencies. Not sure the desktop is the best place to start, but the state budget problems should help people consider alternatives to Redmond. Glenn McDavid mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid From andy at theasis.com Sat Jan 12 12:06:24 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The LAN admin management will not discuss any alternative to Microsoft. > A few of us meet quietly sometimes and try to think of ways around this > formidable obstacle :-(> Tell the public. As a taxpayer I'd be very interested in knowing that my local (or any) refuses to even consider an option that would potentially save a lot of money, especially when a public employee is willing to do the research in their free time. In fact, you might get some mileage out of simply suggesting that the public might find that interesting. Andy > Glenn McDavid > mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com > http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Jan 12 12:07:50 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Siemens Speedstream NIC and Cable Modem questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010857359.27985.0.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sat, 2002-01-12 at 10:33, Glenn McDavid wrote: > I made a mistake a while back: I bought a NIC simply because it said > "Linux" on the box. Of course, when I finally opened it up I saw the > fine print--it is supposed Linux _compatible_, but not _supported_, and > there was no information about how to use it under any form of Linux. > Grrrr.... Anyway, the thing is a Siemens SpeedStream 1020, PCI 10/100 > Ethernet Adapter. Does anybody have any ideas about how to set it up > with Slackware 8? A Google search turned up nothing. Thanks. > > A related question: At the beer meeting I had a very informative and > pleasant conversation wth Paul and the gentleman sitting next to him at > the end of the table (sorry, I have forgotten your name). The subject > was using Linux with AT&T's cable modem service. So now I have what feels > like a stupid question: What (in general) type of NIC) do I need to use > a cable modem? Any kind will do, as I understand it. Given how cheap NICs are, there's no particular reason not to buy a new $16 10/100 one rather than a discount .99 10mpbs one, but if you've already got the slow one around, it's not going to be a problem. The fastest throughput I've been able to get out of my cable modem, under the best circumstances, is something a bit better than a T1 -- but it would take six T1s to fill up a 10 megabit channel. The real reason to have a 10/100 card is for communicating with other machines on the local network, and if you're not doing that, no need -- and if you've got an open slot, you can always add one later. Must I have a 10/100 PIC, or can I get by with an ISA 10 > (NE 2000 clone, 3Com, etc.). I can arrange to have either a PCI or an > ISA slot free, and I have a couple of the older NICs just sitting around. > If I can use one of those with AT&T I won't worry so much about figuring > out or replacing the Siemens. ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From phil at rephil.org Sat Jan 12 12:11:41 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! In-Reply-To: ; from Glenn McDavid on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 10:50:11AM -0600 References: <200201120023.g0C0NHC08896@RedConcepts.NET> Message-ID: <20020112113000.C18622@rephil.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 10:50:11AM -0600, Glenn McDavid wrote: > Quite right. Furthermore, he may not be in a position to advocate > Linux there. I work for another local government and I know somebody > there who got reprimanded for advocating Linux and was forbidden from > giving a presentation about Linux at the Departmental education forum. > The LAN admin management will not discuss any alternative to Microsoft. > A few of us meet quietly sometimes and try to think of ways around this > formidable obstacle :-(> Hrm. Not to sow the seeds of discord, but how "forbidden" are we talking? If one were a big enough troublemaker, one might be able to turn this into a First Amendment issue. I wonder if PFAW or ACLU might not have something to say about it. I raise this issue because you say it's a government agency. They obviously do have some control over what people are allowed to bring to meetings, but it might be possible to show that if you define the issue enough, they have violated his right to express an opinion. > Not sure the desktop is the best place to start, but the state budget > problems should help people consider alternatives to Redmond. Alternatives to Ventura, too. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From esper at sherohman.org Sat Jan 12 12:20:50 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Siemens Speedstream NIC and Cable Modem questions In-Reply-To: ; from gmcdavid@winternet.com on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 10:33:17AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20020112115155.A3076@sherohman.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 10:33:17AM -0600, Glenn McDavid wrote: > Grrrr.... Anyway, the thing is a Siemens SpeedStream 1020, PCI 10/100 > Ethernet Adapter. Does anybody have any ideas about how to set it up > with Slackware 8? A Google search turned up nothing. Thanks. lspci might tell you what chipset the card uses, which should be enough to figure out which driver you need. Then just either insert the relevant module or build a new kernel with that driver included. > What (in general) type of NIC) do I need to use > a cable modem? Must I have a 10/100 PIC, or can I get by with an ISA 10 > (NE 2000 clone, 3Com, etc.). You're not going to get more than a couple Mbps over the cable modem anyhow, so a 10 Mbps NIC will be more than sufficient. 10/100 would be serious overkill. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From phil at rephil.org Sat Jan 12 12:23:05 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition Message-ID: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions to be more of an asset than a liability. The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: 1 Boot partitions (multiple OSs, or in the case of Alpha, some need to see a FAT partition with certain BIOS/bootloader combinations. 2 Need for multiple fs. If you *need* a disk of fs , sure. 3 Simple "hardware quotas". I see no reason to divide the drive otherwise. If you want to have multiple disks, you can hang them from any mountpoint in that file system. If one of multiple disks goes down, you can remount/restore to the same point, whether the drive in question has been partitioned or not. But if a partitioned drive fails totally, all the partitions fail. It has *not* been my experience that drives fail in such a way as to render some of them useful, but not others. (Not that it can't happen, but bad bearings affect all partitions equally.) Not from *nix, but I know VMS has had logical volume capability since forever, and RMS filesystems are *not* partitioned. Does the LVM use partitioned drives (I'm reading web stuff as I ask...) or do they spend a lot of energy trying to integrate partitions back into raw drive space so that they can control the fs structure? I just wanted to hear a little discussion on this, 'cause I think I'm close to developing an opinion that partitioning is silly. Thx, Phil -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Jan 12 12:55:10 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1010859142.27992.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sat, 2002-01-12 at 11:30, andy@theasis.com wrote: > > The LAN admin management will not discuss any alternative to Microsoft. > > A few of us meet quietly sometimes and try to think of ways around this > > formidable obstacle :-(> > > Tell the public. As a taxpayer I'd be very interested in knowing that my > local (or any) refuses to even consider an option that would potentially > save a lot of money, especially when a public employee is willing to do > the research in their free time. > > In fact, you might get some mileage out of simply suggesting that the > public might find that interesting. > > Andy Making any kind of public fuss is a very, very risky move for somebody who wishes to keep his job. Whisteblowers paint targets on themselves. Note that, just to pick an example, the only person indicted by Waco special prosecutor was the whistleblower. > -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From kbullock at ringworld.org Sat Jan 12 12:55:45 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Siemens Speedstream NIC and Cable Modem questions References: Message-ID: <3C407DB2.7070600@ringworld.org> Glenn McDavid wrote: > I made a mistake a while back: I bought a NIC simply because it > said "Linux" on the box. Of course, when I finally opened it up I > saw the fine print--it is supposed Linux _compatible_, but not > _supported_, and there was no information about how to use it under > any form of Linux. Grrrr.... Anyway, the thing is a Siemens > SpeedStream 1020, PCI 10/100 Ethernet Adapter. Does anybody have > any ideas about how to set it up with Slackware 8? A Google search > turned up nothing. Thanks. Amazing... this card doesn't seem to exist. ;p Take a look at the chip on the card, that should point you towards the right driver. If all else fails, try using the tulip driver and see what happens (be prepared for a hard lock though). > A related question: At the beer meeting I had a very informative > and pleasant conversation wth Paul and the gentleman sitting next to > him at the end of the table (sorry, I have forgotten your name). > The subject was using Linux with AT&T's cable modem service. So now > I have what feels like a stupid question: What (in general) type of > NIC) do I need to use a cable modem? Must I have a 10/100 PIC, or > can I get by with an ISA 10 (NE 2000 clone, 3Com, etc.). I can > arrange to have either a PCI or an ISA slot free, and I have a > couple of the older NICs just sitting around. If I can use one of > those with AT&T I won't worry so much about figuring out or > replacing the Siemens. You just need an ethernet card (that connects by twisted pair, i.e. RJ-45 connectors and Cat-[35] cable). I'm not sure if the cable modem will go 100Mbps, but it wouldn't hurt to have 100Mb card in there. Basically any NIC will work. -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Jan 12 12:59:13 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Don't Rant, Write - was No More Word! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011212014200.26499@edith> Hear hear, I thought we had a representative form of government. We could probably talk to our representatives if we were aware of issues like this! Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 12 January 2002 11:30, you wrote: > > The LAN admin management will not discuss any alternative to Microsoft. > > A few of us meet quietly sometimes and try to think of ways around this > > formidable obstacle :-(> > > Tell the public. As a taxpayer I'd be very interested in knowing that my > local (or any) refuses to even consider an option that would potentially > save a lot of money, especially when a public employee is willing to do > the research in their free time. > > In fact, you might get some mileage out of simply suggesting that the > public might find that interesting. > > Andy > > > Glenn McDavid > > mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com > > http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Jan 12 12:59:49 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Siemens Speedstream NIC and Cable Modem questions In-Reply-To: <20020112115155.A3076@sherohman.org> References: <20020112115155.A3076@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <02011212073301.26499@edith> Did running netconfig as root not auto-detect it? Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 12 January 2002 11:51, you wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 10:33:17AM -0600, Glenn McDavid wrote: > > Grrrr.... Anyway, the thing is a Siemens SpeedStream 1020, PCI 10/100 > > Ethernet Adapter. Does anybody have any ideas about how to set it up > > with Slackware 8? A Google search turned up nothing. Thanks. > > lspci might tell you what chipset the card uses, which should be > enough to figure out which driver you need. Then just either insert > the relevant module or build a new kernel with that driver included. > > > What (in general) type of NIC) do I need to use > > a cable modem? Must I have a 10/100 PIC, or can I get by with an ISA 10 > > (NE 2000 clone, 3Com, etc.). > > You're not going to get more than a couple Mbps over the cable modem > anyhow, so a 10 Mbps NIC will be more than sufficient. 10/100 would > be serious overkill. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Jan 12 13:18:00 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: <02011212151302.26499@edith> One other reason to at least put /home on another partition. Say its middle of December. Say you just wanted to do your wife a favor and install the StarOffice 6.0 Beta. So you think to yourself you will just remove the 5.2 and put 6.0 on. Big mistake... Darn GUI un-installer removed the X-Mass letter to everyone. Big oops. Well if you have /home on a separate partion you could get the file un-deleted if you can go to single user as root and use some of the utils to un-delete the file (found that Midnight Commander was excellent for pulling many files back from the dead, but the key bindings were a bit of a hurdle to overcome.) So that could be a reason. Not that anybody would delete an important file and want it back later :-) Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 12 January 2002 11:59, you wrote: > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > > 1 Boot partitions (multiple OSs, or in the case of Alpha, some > need to see a FAT partition with certain BIOS/bootloader > combinations. > > 2 Need for multiple fs. If you *need* a disk of fs , sure. > > 3 Simple "hardware quotas". > > I see no reason to divide the drive otherwise. From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Jan 12 13:18:40 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sat, 2002-01-12 at 11:59, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > > 1 Boot partitions (multiple OSs, or in the case of Alpha, some > need to see a FAT partition with certain BIOS/bootloader > combinations. > > 2 Need for multiple fs. If you *need* a disk of fs , sure. > > 3 Simple "hardware quotas". > > I see no reason to divide the drive otherwise. How about this one: I've decided on Linux, but I'm not sure which distro, or which version I'm going to settle on. I know that I'm going to want to work on the same files in my /home directory, and I'm perfectly willing to dedicate a small part of the disk to an ext2 /boot partition -- but I haven't, yet, decided whether my / partition should be on a ext2, ext3, RAID, or rfs partition, much less whether I should trade off performance vs. safety for striping the /var stuff, which I don't horribly mind losing. Further, I do want to be able to create an on-disk backup of some critical files, then unmount the backup partition -- part of the Safety Through Paranoia program. If you want to have > multiple disks, you can hang them from any mountpoint in that file > system. If one of multiple disks goes down, you can remount/restore > to the same point, whether the drive in question has been partitioned > or not. But if a partitioned drive fails totally, all the partitions > fail. > > It has *not* been my experience that drives fail in such a way as to > render some of them useful, but not others. (Not that it can't > happen, but bad bearings affect all partitions equally.) > > Not from *nix, but I know VMS has had logical volume capability since > forever, and RMS filesystems are *not* partitioned. Does the LVM use > partitioned drives (I'm reading web stuff as I ask...) or do they > spend a lot of energy trying to integrate partitions back into raw > drive space so that they can control the fs structure? > > I just wanted to hear a little discussion on this, 'cause I think I'm > close to developing an opinion that partitioning is silly. > > Thx, > Phil > > -- > "Trying to do something with your life is like > sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From churchid at visi.com Sat Jan 12 13:24:00 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Dan Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > to be more of an asset than a liability. I think you meant, more of a liability than an asset, or perhaps less of an asset than a liability... ;P Another reason for partitioning a *nix system is security. By locating your /usr branch on a different partition than / you prevent certain types of vulernabilities. I don't remember the specifics, but I remember reading about them in "Maximum Linux Security" by "Anonymous". Maybe someone else knows. Of course, for a single-user system in your home, I don't think this really applies in any meaningful way. Dan From dkleist at acm.org Sat Jan 12 13:33:02 2002 From: dkleist at acm.org (coder) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: <0a48d1746180c12FE2@mail2.mn.rr.com> On Saturday 12 January 2002 12:59 pm, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > I see no reason to divide the drive otherwise. Only one, which I had to learn the hard way: I like /home on a separate partition, so when I stupidly trash kernel/rpms/software, etc., I can try to keep my data but blow away the / partition. > I just wanted to hear a little discussion on this, 'cause I think I'm > close to developing an opinion that partitioning is silly. It certainly is the way that I do it. - Dave From John.Miller at rbcdain.com Sat Jan 12 13:42:26 2002 From: John.Miller at rbcdain.com (Miller, John) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video Editing Message-ID: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A285@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Has anyone done any video editing with their Linux machine. I am looking to build a new machine and am looking for pointers on components, mainly the video card. I would like video in and video out so I can transfer video tape to the computer. I am also thinking of taking some of the videos and making DVD's out of them. The components that I am thinking about so far are AMD XP 1800 or 1900 Elitegroups ESC K7S5A with the SIS735 chipset. Tomshardware gave it a good review. 512 MB DDR 36 GB SCSI Ultra 160 Drive SCSI DVD-Ram and CD-RW (2 components) All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. John Miller Information Services - Capital Markets Software Developer Phone: 612-547-7573 Fax: 612-547-7580 Mail Stop: T23 MailTo:john.miller@rbcdain.com From John.Miller at rbcdain.com Sat Jan 12 13:42:56 2002 From: John.Miller at rbcdain.com (Miller, John) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer Message-ID: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Has anyone done any video editing with their Linux machine. I am looking to build a new machine and am looking for pointers on components, mainly the video card. I would like video in and video out so I can transfer video tape to the computer. I am also thinking of taking some of the videos and making DVD's out of them. The components that I am thinking about so far are AMD XP 1800 or 1900 Elitegroups ESC K7S5A with the SIS735 chipset. Tomshardware gave it a good review. 512 MB DDR 36 GB SCSI Ultra 160 Drive SCSI DVD-Ram and CD-RW (2 components) All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. John Miller Information Services - Capital Markets Software Developer Phone: 612-547-7573 Fax: 612-547-7580 Mail Stop: T23 MailTo:john.miller@rbcdain.com From amy at real-time.com Sat Jan 12 13:43:34 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] boot win2k from grub Message-ID: <20011031100837.D2543@real-time.com> What do I need to add to my grub.conf file to boot a previously-installed win2k OS? Some background: I'm trying to setup a Linux Workstation running VMWare with Win2K as the guest OS. However, I want to use a ghosted Win2K image on a raw disk partition. I installed the ghosted Win2K image onto an empty partition. Then I config'd a new guest OS under VMWare and pointed it at that partition. However, when I power it on, I get grub. From VMWare docs, sounds like I need to add Win2K to grub.conf so I can select it at this point. Thanks. -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com From phil at rephil.org Sat Jan 12 13:53:43 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from Joel Rosenberg on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:32:35PM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:32:35PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > I see no reason to divide the drive otherwise. > > How about this one: > > I've decided on Linux, but I'm not sure which distro, or which version > I'm going to settle on. I know that I'm going to want to work on the > same files in my /home directory, and I'm perfectly willing to dedicate > a small part of the disk to an ext2 /boot partition -- but I haven't, > yet, decided whether my / partition should be on a ext2, ext3, RAID, or > rfs partition, much less whether I should trade off performance vs. > safety for striping the /var stuff, which I don't horribly mind losing. > Further, I do want to be able to create an on-disk backup of some > critical files, then unmount the backup partition -- part of the Safety > Through Paranoia program. I don't think the backup thing is wise -- put it on other media. And I *do* know what distro, etc. Anyway, with multiple disks, you can backup and reformat faster. Partitions: 0 Multiple disks: 2 :) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From andy at theasis.com Sat Jan 12 13:54:15 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > to be more of an asset than a liability. or vice versa? > or not. But if a partitioned drive fails totally, all the partitions > fail. But if the drive is fine, and your OS gets somehow borked, then it might be nice to have certain things on their own partition. I advocate having /home on a separate partition. Something like /usr/local/ might be nice to save, since you then don't have to reinstall various software.There have been occasions where in backing up things it was nice to able to be able to contain it within certain parts of the filesystem. > I just wanted to hear a little discussion on this, 'cause I think I'm > close to developing an opinion that partitioning is silly. Aside from the above, I find it to be a nuisance in most circumstances. At the moment I'm a bit frustrated by the inefficient use of space on a laptop drive. Maybe LVM is the answer to that, but I've not investigated it yet. Andy > Thx, > Phil From phil at rephil.org Sat Jan 12 14:12:43 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <02011212151302.26499@edith>; from Kelly Black on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:15:13PM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <02011212151302.26499@edith> Message-ID: <20020112133816.C20148@rephil.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:15:13PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > One other reason to at least put /home on another partition. Yeah, but /home goes on another drive anyway. That way failure of either drive is much faster. Partitions: 0 Multiple drives: 1 :) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From gabe at msi.umn.edu Sat Jan 12 14:34:38 2002 From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] boot win2k from grub In-Reply-To: <20011031100837.D2543@real-time.com>; from amy@real-time.com on Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 10:08:37AM -0600 References: <20011031100837.D2543@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020112134936.C3584@monsoon.msi.umn.edu> On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 10:08:37AM -0600, Amy Tanner wrote: > What do I need to add to my grub.conf file to boot a previously-installed > win2k OS? Well, this is an extremely old message, and you've undoubtedly figured it out, but we may as well get this info into the archives :) To boot Windows from Grub, ad the following to your grub.conf: title Windoze rootnoverify (hd0,0) makeactive chainloader +1 boot HTH, Gabe -- Gabe Turner gabe@msi.umn.edu SGI Origin Systems Administrator, University of Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation www.msi.umn.edu From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Jan 12 14:35:29 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1010865530.27992.10.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sat, 2002-01-12 at 13:41, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:32:35PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > > > I see no reason to divide the drive otherwise. > > > > How about this one: > > > > I've decided on Linux, but I'm not sure which distro, or which version > > I'm going to settle on. I know that I'm going to want to work on the > > same files in my /home directory, and I'm perfectly willing to dedicate > > a small part of the disk to an ext2 /boot partition -- but I haven't, > > yet, decided whether my / partition should be on a ext2, ext3, RAID, or > > rfs partition, much less whether I should trade off performance vs. > > safety for striping the /var stuff, which I don't horribly mind losing. > > Further, I do want to be able to create an on-disk backup of some > > critical files, then unmount the backup partition -- part of the Safety > > Through Paranoia program. > > I don't think the backup thing is wise -- put it on other media. I did say "part." The book in progress is not, by my policy, officially "backed up" until it exists on two local computers, a offsite ftp location, and has been emailed to hotmail. > -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From dkleist at acm.org Sat Jan 12 14:36:05 2002 From: dkleist at acm.org (Dave Kleist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] boot win2k from grub In-Reply-To: <20011031100837.D2543@real-time.com> References: <20011031100837.D2543@real-time.com> Message-ID: <0cf865857190c12FE7@mail7.mn.rr.com> On Wednesday 31 October 2001 10:08 am, Amy Tanner wrote: > What do I need to add to my grub.conf file to boot a previously-installed > win2k OS? I just finished my dual-boot for Win2K. I have the Win2K as the primary device (hda) Here's my menu entry: title WIN2K root (hd0,0) makeactive chainloader +1 I think you'll need to point the root to the hard-drive (hdx, x=0-? corresponding to a, b, c). The second number is the partition number (starting with 0 not 1) so /dev/hdc1 would be root (hd2, 0). Also, windows may not like thinking it's not the primary device/partition, so you may need to include a map command that exchanges the Win drive to the primary drive and vice-versa (like this, I think, but I may have the order wrong on where to place the map command): title WIN2K root (hd0,0) map (hd0) (hd2) map (hd2) (hd0) makeactive chainloader +1 I found that building a boot floppy to test the menu first saved me all kinds of headaches., including when installing software seemed to mess with the MBR (trying to force a reboot??) Hope this helps - Dave From phil at rephil.org Sat Jan 12 14:42:30 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: ; from Dan Churchill on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:41:12PM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020112140013.E20148@rephil.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:41:12PM -0600, Dan Churchill wrote: > I think you meant, more of a liability than an asset, or perhaps less of an > asset than a liability... ;P Geez, of course I did. Sure, read what I wrote, not what I meant. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From dutchman at uswest.net Sat Jan 12 16:50:46 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PPP connection woes Message-ID: <3C40A8F9.CCCAD055@uswest.net> I am having a problem dialing up through a modem. Trying to debug through wvdial, I see the following: Carrier detected. Waiting for prompt. User Access Verification Username: Looks like a login prompt. Sending: mylogin mylogin Password: Looks like a password prompt. Sending: (password) mpls-apa-nas05.mpls.uswest.ne>Hmm... a prompt. Sending "ppp". ppp IP address or hostname: Looks like a login prompt. Sending: mylogin mylogin Translating "MYLOGIN" % Bad IP address mpls-apa-nas05.mpls.uswest.ne>Hmm... a prompt. Sending "ppp". ppp Don't know what to do! Starting pppd and hoping for the best. Starting pppd at Sat Jan 12 15:01:23 2002 PPP daemon has died! (exit code = 10) Disconnecting at Sat Jan 12 15:01:53 2002 When I dial this account through W2K, it connects fine. I do have to set 'allow unsecured password'. Is there a similiar option in the ppp or wvdial.conf scripts? -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From sextus at visi.com Sat Jan 12 16:54:46 2002 From: sextus at visi.com (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org>; from Phil Mendelsohn on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020112142758.A20367@visi.com> ON Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > > 1 Boot partitions (multiple OSs, or in the case of Alpha, some > need to see a FAT partition with certain BIOS/bootloader > combinations. > > 2 Need for multiple fs. If you *need* a disk of fs , sure. > > 3 Simple "hardware quotas". 4. Different mount options, such as read-only 5. Different filesystem parameters 6. (/ only) Consistency and speed of recovery in the event of a crash. -- Michael From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Jan 12 17:57:31 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number Message-ID: I'm trying to mount /dev/hda1 and I keep getting the above error. I searched and searched the internet and couldn't find anything helpful. The closest I got was the man page for MAKEDEV, I did a './MAKEDEV update' and after some working and a couple errors about other devices the command finished. Still no luck. I'm guessing from the errors that I have an old copy of MAKEDEV.. it doesn't seem too happy about those USB devices. Where can I get a copy of MAKEDEV for my current (2.2.20) kernel? -Brian From steveg at transition.com Sat Jan 12 19:12:22 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] High Speed Network Connection Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC07F@postman.transition.com> The main difference being that the gigabit parts have to be much smarter than either 10 or 100Mb stuff. Because it is both talking and listening on each pair at the same time you need to use echo cancelation wihich involves DSPs......... All I can say is it must have been a great day for the guys at Broadcom when they plugged that baby in an you could actually move data with it. -----Original Message----- From: Brian [mailto:lxy@cloudnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:12 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] High Speed Network Connection On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, steve wrote: > Which is interesting being that it transmits and receives on all 4 > pairs at the same time. Reeeaaaalllyy... that's interesting! It always bothered me that ethernet could be up to 200 Mbit/sec (400 full duplex) if someone would just make use of those extra pairs. No recabling needed, no change in BICSI standards, just switches and NICS that are smarter than the average NIC. -Brian _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sat Jan 12 19:33:31 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112142758.A20367@visi.com> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020112142758.A20367@visi.com> Message-ID: <20020113010142.GA9279@iucha.net> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 02:27:58PM -0600, Michael Burns wrote: > ON Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > > > > 1 Boot partitions (multiple OSs, or in the case of Alpha, some > > need to see a FAT partition with certain BIOS/bootloader > > combinations. > > > > 2 Need for multiple fs. If you *need* a disk of fs , sure. > > > > 3 Simple "hardware quotas". > > 4. Different mount options, such as read-only > 5. Different filesystem parameters > 6. (/ only) Consistency and speed of recovery in the event of a crash. 7. Different usage patterns: for instance I have a /var/cache partition that holds my apache mod_proxy cache directory and the mailing lists for tclug, lkml... When mutt enters a directory it has to "stat" all the files and fetch the headers in order to build the index. I don't want that spread all over the disk, interspersed with /use files. 8. Backup: my biggest backup device atm is a CD-ROM - and that limits the size of a bzipped dump file. Indeed, partitioning is a little of black art... it depends on your distro, usage patterns... etc. It is refined over time and succesive installations. But that doesn't make it useless. Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020112/5b38bb37/attachment.pgp From kelly-black at mediaone.net Sat Jan 12 21:59:32 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112133816.C20148@rephil.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <02011212151302.26499@edith> <20020112133816.C20148@rephil.org> Message-ID: <02011221005300.27167@edith> Oh, I thought you were talking about only one drive. Sorry, I was not paying close enough attention to the thread. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Saturday 12 January 2002 13:38, you wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:15:13PM -0600, Kelly Black wrote: > > One other reason to at least put /home on another partition. > > Yeah, but /home goes on another drive anyway. That way failure of > either drive is much faster. > > Partitions: 0 Multiple drives: 1 > > :) From esper at sherohman.org Sat Jan 12 22:34:54 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Win2K TOC the same? In-Reply-To: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 10:21:23PM -0600 References: <20011030222123.C2684@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20011031103453.A9906@sherohman.org> On Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 10:21:23PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > I might be blinded by by religion and this group my not have the ability to let > the religion go, but can anyone look outside the box on this and comment? Ditto. > My perspective is Linux is much cheaper then Windows. Even if you pay for a > distro you are starting out ahead. Add the virus resistence, stability, > reliability, and security out of the box. Linux should be have a better TOC then > Win2k. Depends a lot on where and how you're talking about using it. Put it on desktops, you'll have retraining costs[1]. Expect users to admin their own Linux boxes, and those retraining costs will be massive - but if you're running a *nix network, you probably know better than to let the average user admin their own box. Put it in the server room with some decent admins, and you can watch TCO plummet. Staff costs? Yes, the typical *nix admin costs a bit more (I've usually heard $15-20k/year more) than a Windows admin, but he can keep a lot more boxes up and they're up a greater percentage of the time. Hardware costs? *nix doesn't make you upgrade your boxes every few years. Software costs? *nix doesn't force you to upgrade your software every other year. Never mind Linux - when you factor in MS's upgrade treadmill, many commercial *nixen could be cheaper than Windows over the course of 10 years. IMO, there are only two areas where Windows continues to outshine Linux: 1) Software availability. There's a ton of great software out there for Linux and most of it is free for the downloading. However, StarOffice isn't compatible enough with MS Office for some people, some web sites will only work for MSIE, etc. If any of these limitations affect you, TCO could be increased by the need to work around them. 2) Hardware compatibility. A lot of new hardware doesn't come with Linux drivers. In a corporate environment, though, this isn't a real big deal. Just standardize on a platform that does work and that's that. [1] I work for a manufacturing company which uses Linux on most desktops. We got a new receptionist about a month and a half ago. The first day, after I got her KDE desktop set up, she made a couple comments about being kinda lost because she only knew Windows and Office. I pointed her to the icons I'd set up for StarOffice and our main database app and she was up and running. Over her first two weeks, I had to visit her once to show her how to deal with file permissions on documents she inherited from the old receptionist and twice to find functions for her in StarOffice. So, yes, there are retraining costs. But they're not nearly so extreme as most anaylsts would have you believe. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Mr. Slippery From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com Sat Jan 12 23:59:24 2002 From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHProjekt In-Reply-To: <20011031042106.GXOK28415.femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Message-ID: I thought I sent this yesterday, but it doesn't seem to have gone. Sorry if it is a double posting. Anyone using/have used this package? If so, would you be willing to share your experiences, thoughts, complaints, etc. Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist.com 952-368-3278 x396 fax 952-368-3255 From jima at gimp.damnation.net Sun Jan 13 00:24:26 2002 From: jima at gimp.damnation.net (jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FREE Hardware at Real Time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 andy@theasis.com wrote: > well, at least describe the haul! > > Andy I got: - three 486's (33-66MHz, I believe) - one Pentium 60 - one SparcClassic - one small ATX case (with PS only), branded VA Linux, with a Real Time sticker - one external SCSI case, with seven 5.25" bays - miscellaneous parts About half of the computers were stripped-down. Only one had a floppy drive. I might be kicking loose two of the 486's and the Pentium. If so I'll probably bring 'em to the InstallFest. Jima From gje at parrotheaven.com Sun Jan 13 02:32:02 2002 From: gje at parrotheaven.com (Greg Evans) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new box compatability In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0BCE0A0@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0BCE0A0@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20011031103957.C19365@parrotheaven.com> I bought one of these Dragon mb's. It's awesome! The C-media sound stuff and the via-rhine network adapter are fully supported (at least under kernel-2.4.12. It's very easy to overclock with it. -- /* Greg Evans, Bloomington, MN., USA - gje@parrotheaven.com */ ------------- "Beware when you do battle with monsters that you do not become one, and remember, when you stare long into the abyss, the abyss also stares into you" - F. Nietzsche Austad, Jay [austad@marketwatch.com] wrote: > Everything looks fine to me. You should check out the Soyo Dragon board > though. Runs about $130. It's black with purple pci slots! 6 usb ports (2 > onboard, 4 headers), 6 channel dolby digital onboard sound that's supported > by linux (the company that made the chip distributes the source for the > drivers and they are very full featured) SPDIF in/out and optical in and > out. Onboard sound usually sucks, but this onboard sound is sweet. Onboard > ethernet also which is supposed to work fine with linux. 6 ide channels (4 > of which are RAID capable). Did I mention it's black? > > A friend of mine bought one. It runs win2k, but he says it's the best board > he's ever owned (and he's had many). > > Jay > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob W. Anderson [mailto:bobdove@pipeline.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:53 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] new box compatability > > > Hi: > > I'm planning on getting a new computer and would appreciate any feedback > re: the Linux compatibility of the hardware. > > Athlon 1.2G-C CPU with K7S5a mb, heatsink, fan. > 512MB PC2100 DDR memory > GeForce2 MX 400 64MB AGP Video card > IBM 40G 7200 rpm HD > Mid Tower ATX Case w/AMD approved 300w PS > > Your comments please. > > Bob W. Anderson > Newport > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From DCsk8r34 at aol.com Sun Jan 13 03:44:14 2002 From: DCsk8r34 at aol.com (DCsk8r34@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Link for JDK Message-ID: <98.1fd7eac9.2972ad4d@aol.com> Hello, thanks for the help on the links to get JDK. When I go there, there are a lot of different versions and types, its kinda confusing to me so I was asking if someone could provide me with a direct link to the JDK I need so I can download it. The links I got are http://java.sun.com and http://www.software.ibm.com. The reason I need it is cause ICQ is looking for a java directory that I dont have, and it wont work unless I have it. Any help is greatly appreciated, Thanks. -Derek  From tanner at real-time.com Sun Jan 13 04:42:30 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Link for JDK In-Reply-To: <98.1fd7eac9.2972ad4d@aol.com>; from DCsk8r34@aol.com on Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 04:28:45AM -0500 References: <98.1fd7eac9.2972ad4d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020113035725.K4915@real-time.com> Quoting DCsk8r34@aol.com (DCsk8r34@aol.com): > Hello, thanks for the help on the links to get JDK. When I go there, there are > a lot of different versions and types, its kinda confusing to me so I was > asking if someone could provide me with a direct link to the JDK I need so I > can download it. The links I got are http://java.sun.com and > http://www.software.ibm.com. The reason I need it is cause ICQ is looking for > a java directory that I dont have, and it wont work unless I have it. Any help > is greatly appreciated, Thanks. -Derek http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/jre/ Click the "Linux x86" linux. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux130/?dwzone=java A quick look at the ICQ README tells you this same info. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From lxy at cloudnet.com Sun Jan 13 10:59:15 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Brian wrote: > Where can I get a copy of MAKEDEV for my current (2.2.20) kernel? Umm.. duh Brian, in the kernel source! Or.. so I thought. I tried running linux/scripts/MAKEDEV.ide which did a ton of mknods but still leaves me with the error. Grr. -Brian From kremer at ringworld.org Sun Jan 13 11:39:06 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gcombust In-Reply-To: <3C3DFD29.7030700@ringworld.org> Message-ID: well, that's not completely true. in sleazy cd creator it will just pop out the cd tray and say "insert the next cd" you pop in the next cd, and it takes off. that's kinda what i'm looking for because i have iso's of several cd's that we ship with product at work, and i tend to make about 10 at a time. it makes it a lot easier if i can just walk by during my normal chain of events and stick another cd in and walk away. ezcd tends not to make it through 10 without having problems, though. BLAST!! On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Kevin Bullock wrote: > I don't think there's a way to do it. But how much time would this > really save? You have to change CDs anyway, and at that point you > probably have to click some button or other to tell it to make the next > copy... From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jan 13 12:42:58 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org>; from phil@rephil.org on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:41:08PM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020113120921.A15563@sherohman.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:41:08PM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I don't think the backup thing is wise -- put it on other media. And > I *do* know what distro, etc. Anyway, with multiple disks, you can > backup and reformat faster. > > Partitions: 0 Multiple disks: 2 My points on Why Partitions are Good Things have all been made already, but I haven't seen anyone point out that your method of evaluation and scorekeeping is unfair. You asked why you would want to have multiple partitions, and that is the question that people are answering, but your 'multiple partitions vs. multiple disks' scorekeeping is really 'multiple partitions (on a single disk) vs. (multiple partitions on) multiple disks'. Multiple partitions are multiple partitions, regardless of whether they're on the same physical device or not. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Sun Jan 13 12:50:24 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gcombust References: Message-ID: <001201c19c5e$64cb79c0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Um, if this is work related you may be able to get a cd copy machine. Rimage makes (resells?) CD duplicators that change automatically and print labels on the disk. Pretty good full color if you want to spend the cake. These boxes do testing and know how to do the sorts of tasks that disk makers need to do. I don't know pricing but it does cost *real* money. Mark Browne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kremer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] gcombust well, that's not completely true. in sleazy cd creator it will just pop out the cd tray and say "insert the next cd" you pop in the next cd, and it takes off. that's kinda what i'm looking for because i have iso's of several cd's that we ship with product at work, and i tend to make about 10 at a time. it makes it a lot easier if i can just walk by during my normal chain of events and stick another cd in and walk away. ezcd tends not to make it through 10 without having problems, though. BLAST!! On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Kevin Bullock wrote: > I don't think there's a way to do it. But how much time would this > really save? You have to change CDs anyway, and at that point you > probably have to click some button or other to tell it to make the next > copy... _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joelr at ellegon.com Sun Jan 13 13:55:42 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020113120921.A15563@sherohman.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org> <20020113120921.A15563@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <1010947945.27386.7.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sun, 2002-01-13 at 12:09, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:41:08PM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > I don't think the backup thing is wise -- put it on other media. And > > I *do* know what distro, etc. Anyway, with multiple disks, you can > > backup and reformat faster. > > > > Partitions: 0 Multiple disks: 2 > > My points on Why Partitions are Good Things have all been made > already, but I haven't seen anyone point out that your method of > evaluation and scorekeeping is unfair. You asked why you would want > to have multiple partitions, and that is the question that people are > answering, but your 'multiple partitions vs. multiple disks' > scorekeeping is really 'multiple partitions (on a single disk) vs. > (multiple partitions on) multiple disks'. > > Multiple partitions are multiple partitions, regardless of whether > they're on the same physical device or not. > Then there's the third possibility: single partitions on multiple disks, via LVM or RAID. (My / directory, for example, is a RAID-5 partition that is, physically, four 20-gig physical partitions on four separate HDs, adding up to a sixty-gig partition.) -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From phil at rephil.org Sun Jan 13 14:20:00 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020113120921.A15563@sherohman.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <1010860355.27985.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020112134108.D20148@rephil.org> <20020113120921.A15563@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020113194726.GA3493@rephil.org> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:09:21PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > My points on Why Partitions are Good Things have all been made > already, but I haven't seen anyone point out that your method of > evaluation and scorekeeping is unfair. True enough -- I knew I changed the rules when I started getting replies back. But, it's a victimless crime, and the partitions are hardly crying over their treatment. > Multiple partitions are multiple partitions, regardless of whether > they're on the same physical device or not. I see your point. I might want to argue (not with your point, really on a different one) that physical partitions (multiple drives) make sense, and are in fact forced upon us as soon as you get too big / fast for one disk. Logical partitions, i.e., directories, make sense because, well, you can't just lump everything together. But, "firmware" partitions make no sense because either the disk is too small, or the disk is too big. Or the disk is so static that you should just burn it onto CD-ROM! All they serve to do (in general, given that disks themselves are a commodity -- which they are in IDE or SCSI) is place needless restrictions on the configuration of logical partitions. LVM is really what I want -- now I know, but sometimes you have to run through the exercises. (OK, that and a good structured file system -- what I really want is a *nix kernel with little process running on Files-11.) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From florin at iucha.net Sun Jan 13 15:24:08 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020113202351.GB9279@iucha.net> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 10:15:38AM -0600, Brian wrote: > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Brian wrote: > > Where can I get a copy of MAKEDEV for my current (2.2.20) kernel? > > Umm.. duh Brian, in the kernel source! Or.. so I thought. I tried > running linux/scripts/MAKEDEV.ide which did a ton of mknods but still > leaves me with the error. Grr. ls -l /dev/hda1 it should print something like: brw-rw---- 1 root disk 3, 1 Oct 15 01:00 /dev/hda1 if not, as root rm -rf /dev/hda1 florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020113/8c517f92/attachment.pgp From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Sun Jan 13 16:31:00 2002 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) Message-ID: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? As part of building the box, if anyone has a Socket A chip of any speed they want to get rid of (i.e. if you're upgrading) I'm in the market. Cheers, Paul From dutchman at uswest.net Sun Jan 13 19:30:51 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PPP connection woes References: <3C40A8F9.CCCAD055@uswest.net> <3C40D978.F60375CE@urbanrage.com> Message-ID: <3C422AFA.EE2728B6@uswest.net> I looked at the PPP Howto and it did not describe how to add PAP authentication in my scripts. Do you have a source on how to enable PAP? eric wrote: > Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > > I am having a problem dialing up through a modem. Trying to debug > > through wvdial, I see the following: > > > > switch to using pap authentication in pppd and it'll probably work just > fine. > > Eric -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From blayer at qwest.net Sun Jan 13 19:43:17 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020113190218.6f4df538.blayer@qwest.net> This all sounds pretty weird, so I'll answer it ;) On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:53:23 -0800 (PST) "Paul Harris" wrote: > I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, > including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious > question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious > computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option > is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem > waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? Several things come to mind. Most plastics will readily acquire static charges, so I think that bare plastic is probably a bad idea. If you really want to use the tub, I might suggest a shielding layer like metal foil spray-mounted to the inside of the tub. This shield should be made common to the ground side of the supply (and motherboard as well, if possible). This also will help with RFI issues, which could show up at any point. If I were doing something like this, I would resort to some old rackmount instrument chassis and meld it to an AT or ATX case, for the card slots & etc. BUt that doesn't serve your purpose. Why not mount a conventional mini or micro case inside of an end table? Have fun. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- .-Microsoft.Windows.XP.- -.suddenly.everything.sucks-. From phil at rephil.org Sun Jan 13 20:14:20 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20020114013041.GA4913@rephil.org> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:53:23PM -0800, Paul Harris wrote: > One option is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem waiting > to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? Oh, and I thought you were talking about some kind of nice hardwood thing. If a plastic storage tub blends into the decor of your living room, are you sure it's worth the trouble? :) But really, the answer to your question is "it depends." First it depends on the *kind* of plastic; some are conductive, some aren't. And then it depends on how you hook up the case and deal with grounding. If you ground it properly, you could do it. However, since a static "zap" can be on the order of 30,000 volts (very little current, usually, fortunately), you really might want to test the static end of things out *before* you put your computer in it. One other thing you might try is something I learned when I helped manage ESD abatement in our electronics assembly facility. It turns out that if you put 1/4 cup of Downy in a spray bottle, fill the rest with water, and spray the carpet, not only are you getting rid of your static pretty well, but you meet an ISO static standard (forget which). I never woulda thunk it, but the Manufacturing Engineer who told me came from Sperry Satellite Systems -- and they all had to wear two heel straps, wrist straps, yada yada. Or you can just spray a little Downy on the floor! ;) Still, be careful grounding your case -- you also have safety grounding to consider, and we haven't even touched upon RF. If you put it in a plastic box, you may never be able to watch broadcast TV again. ;) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From lxy at cloudnet.com Sun Jan 13 20:27:46 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: <20020113202351.GB9279@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > ls -l /dev/hda1 > it should print something like: > brw-rw---- 1 root disk 3, 1 Oct 15 01:00 /dev/hda1 Yup, that's what it prints. > rm -rf /dev/hda1 > yup, tried that too. The MAKEDEV script that's in the /dev directory just gives me the error ./MAKEDEV: major_usb/acm/%d=166: No such file or directory ./MAKEDEV: don't know how to make device "/dev/hda1" The script that's in the linux/scripts/ directory does a mknod 3,2 (I assume that means major 3, minor 2?) but it still gives me the error when I try to mount the drive. I found the long way around by FTP'ing the file to a server, reboot into Windows, FTP the file back down. Kinda stupid but at least I have a workaround. I'd much rather use mount :-) -Brian From schanno at tcfreenet.org Sun Jan 13 21:52:20 2002 From: schanno at tcfreenet.org (Terry R Schanno) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <20020113190218.6f4df538.blayer@qwest.net> Message-ID: <20020113212036.K40760-100000@tcfreenet.org> > > I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, > > including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious > > question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious > > computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option > > is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem > > waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? Quite a few people have mounted Compact macs (Classic, SE, Plus, LC 4xx and 5xx) in LEGO cases. It's alot of work, because you have to build it once, and then rebuild it with glue, but it's a really neat product in the end. If you look, there are plenty of sites with diagrams and diraections. Terry Schanno TCFN Volunteer Coordinator schanno@tcfreenet.org From chrome at real-time.com Sun Jan 13 22:31:58 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill In-Reply-To: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com>; from eng@pinenet.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 09:13:29AM -0600 References: <01C199B7.2EEF8AC0.eng@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20020113221533.C20744@real-time.com> > A far more stable approach to increasing computing power is using the > motherboard as simply a backplane bus, with a slow stable CPU simply > managing the bus. Most new add-on cards are ready for this re-invented s > ystem design (a throwback to the mainframe). Video cards, sound cards, > controller cards, etc. all have their own Bios and CPU and command > interface and system memory access. the Big Concept I had for computer architecture bears some resemblance to this; but I don't know enough about the Electrical Engineering details to know what's possible, and what isn't. as I understand SGI's O2 architechture; there's a memory manager which controls access to main memory; and other devices just sort of hang off it -- CPU, Graphics Processing Unit, display processor, I/O boards, etc. the GPU shares memory space with the CPU; so there's no "out to memory, over the bridge, into graphics memory, into the GPU" chain; it's just "put something in memory and tell the GPU where it is". if this could be sufficiently generalized (and I think HyperConnect [?] and a few other new technologies are headed in this direction); you just have a memory controller, and 'channels' hung off it. want more number-crunching speed? put another CPU on a channel. want better graphics performance? put more GPUs on; and since they all share the same memory space, it should be easy to Scan Line Interleave like the old Voodoo cards -- but may be possible between completely different cards, instead of just cards built for it. to a degree, SGI's Origin 3000 architecture is like this... too bad it's out of the price range of ordinary mortals. I hope this sort of idea works down the price scale tho; it's just too cool to let it go the way of the VAXCluster and NeXT... Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises (952) 943-8700 From kbullock at ringworld.org Sun Jan 13 22:35:40 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gcombust References: Message-ID: <3C425D1E.30304@ringworld.org> You could contribute code :) Shouldn't be too hard to find the proper way to sense a new media insert and respond appropriately. Except I don't think Kremer's good with C. Anyone want a pet project? :) /me might take a look at it. -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock Kremer wrote: > well, that's not completely true. in sleazy cd creator it will just pop > out the cd tray and say "insert the next cd" you pop in the next cd, and > it takes off. that's kinda what i'm looking for because i have iso's of > several cd's that we ship with product at work, and i tend to make about > 10 at a time. it makes it a lot easier if i can just walk by during > my normal chain of events and stick another cd in and walk away. ezcd > tends not to make it through 10 without having problems, though. > BLAST!! From josh at greentechnologist.org Sun Jan 13 22:59:04 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Brian, You've been attacking the wrong problem. While the error message stated something about the wrong major number that isn't really the problem. Your /dev/hda1 is perfectly fine and ought to be left alone. What *would* help is if you described what /dev/hda is, how it is partitioned and the relevant section from your dmesg. You also mentioned something about USB. I think the problem is either hardware being identified improperly or your drivers are somehow wierd. The info I asked for should have some clues as to what the real problem is. Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Brian wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Florin Iucha wrote: > > ls -l /dev/hda1 > > it should print something like: > > brw-rw---- 1 root disk 3, 1 Oct 15 01:00 /dev/hda1 > > Yup, that's what it prints. > > > rm -rf /dev/hda1 > > > > yup, tried that too. The MAKEDEV script that's in the /dev directory just > gives me the error > > ./MAKEDEV: major_usb/acm/%d=166: No such file or directory > ./MAKEDEV: don't know how to make device "/dev/hda1" > > The script that's in the linux/scripts/ directory does a mknod 3,2 (I > assume that means major 3, minor 2?) but it still gives me the error when > I try to mount the drive. > > I found the long way around by FTP'ing the file to a server, reboot into > Windows, FTP the file back down. Kinda stupid but at least I have a > workaround. I'd much rather use mount :-) > > -Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8QkbGfexLsowstzcRAsXvAJ9+ZJ7Z9206Af1uVNopp2iTGY2yuQCgzMwT IBOiPMSCJWQCQsYtxLsrgec= =vq/8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blutgens at sistina.com Sun Jan 13 23:42:25 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gcombust In-Reply-To: <3C425D1E.30304@ringworld.org> References: <3C425D1E.30304@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1010984882.8467.2.camel@minime> On Sun, 2002-01-13 at 22:22, Kevin Bullock wrote: > You could contribute code :) Shouldn't be too hard to find the proper > way to sense a new media insert and respond appropriately. > > Except I don't think Kremer's good with C. Anyone want a pet project? :) > /me might take a look at it. a while loop and cdrecord with the -eject switch will do it just fine form the command line.... > > -- > Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa > Kevin R. Bullock > > Kremer wrote: > > > well, that's not completely true. in sleazy cd creator it will just pop > > out the cd tray and say "insert the next cd" you pop in the next cd, and > > it takes off. that's kinda what i'm looking for because i have iso's of > > several cd's that we ship with product at work, and i tend to make about > > 10 at a time. it makes it a lot easier if i can just walk by during > > my normal chain of events and stick another cd in and walk away. ezcd > > tends not to make it through 10 without having problems, though. > > BLAST!! > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator Sistina Software Inc. "If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin orge Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020113/77f6a29f/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Sun Jan 13 23:46:59 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020114051324.GC9279@iucha.net> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 09:26:05PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > So, anyone have any advice, such as good places to get bulk cable, whether > I should spend more on cat6 rather than 5e or 5, whether I should get > patch panels or just some switches, if I should consider running anything > except ethernet, etc? I have just got back from MicroCenter. In the bargain book department they have "Cabling: The Complete Guide to Network Cabling" (ISBN:0-7821-2645-6) for $5.99 . Cheers, florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020113/b4e9eada/attachment.pgp From jared-linux at mn.rr.com Mon Jan 14 08:31:25 2002 From: jared-linux at mn.rr.com (Jared Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the frequency of your machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you and your neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals (at least around the frequency of your clock) while your machine is running. :) - Jared On Sunday 13 January 2002 02:53 pm, you wrote: > I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, > including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious > question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious > computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option > is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem > waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? > > As part of building the box, if anyone has a Socket A chip > of any speed they want to get rid of (i.e. if you're > upgrading) I'm in the market. > > Cheers, Paul > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phil at rephil.org Mon Jan 14 09:06:34 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <20020114051324.GC9279@iucha.net> References: <20020114051324.GC9279@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020114142000.GD8429@rephil.org> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 11:13:24PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > I have just got back from MicroCenter. In the bargain book department > they have "Cabling: The Complete Guide to Network Cabling" > (ISBN:0-7821-2645-6) for $5.99 . Sounds promising, but is it any good? -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jan 14 09:55:20 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > Brian, > You've been attacking the wrong problem. While the error message stated > something about the wrong major number that isn't really the problem. Your > /dev/hda1 is perfectly fine and ought to be left alone. What *would* help > is if you described what /dev/hda is, how it is partitioned /dev/hda is my sole 30GB ATA-1000 drive it's carved up something like this: /dev/hda1 4GB Windows partition /dev/hda2 250MB swap /dev/hda3 1.5GB / /dev/hda4 extended /dev/hda5 10GB /usr /dev/hda6 12GB /home and the > relevant section from your dmesg. You also mentioned something about USB. I don't have the dmesg handy, I'll post it when I can get to it. > I think the problem is either hardware being identified improperly or your > drivers are somehow wierd. The info I asked for should have some clues as > to what the real problem is. As another poster suggested, is it possible I left out some ATA driver in the kernel config? I don't recall ever having trouble with this drive so I'm guessing there's no custom patches or anything that need to be loaded. -Brian From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Mon Jan 14 10:17:27 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Message-ID: <20020114154732.GG6656@fandre.com> I'm using a ATI Wonder TV tuner card to capture TV video. It has a composite input so you can connect it to your VCR or camcorder. Works pretty well. I also have a Firewire card which I use with my Sony HandyCam to capture video. You can even create VCDs so you can watch your videos on your DVD player. http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/VCR-HOWTO.html On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Miller, John wrote: > Has anyone done any video editing with their Linux machine. I am looking to build a new machine and am looking for pointers on components, mainly the video card. I would like video in and video out so I can transfer video tape to the computer. I am also thinking of taking some of the videos and making DVD's out of them. > > The components that I am thinking about so far are > AMD XP 1800 or 1900 > Elitegroups ESC K7S5A with the SIS735 chipset. Tomshardware gave it a good review. > 512 MB DDR > 36 GB SCSI Ultra 160 Drive > SCSI DVD-Ram and CD-RW (2 components) > From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Mon Jan 14 10:20:07 2002 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Static electricity Message-ID: <20020114042254.27381.c000-h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Thanks for the info Bill and Phil :) It ties in with what I thought, so I'll go back to evaluating the original idea of a wooden case as Phil suggests (I thought the plastic might be easier, but withthe grounding perhaps not). Cheers, Paul Bill: Several things come to mind. Most plastics will readily acquire static charges, so I think that bare plastic is probably a bad idea. If you really want to use the tub, I might suggest a shielding layer like metal foil spray-mounted to the inside of the tub. This shield should be made common to the ground side of the supply (and motherboard as well, if possible). This also will help with RFI issues, which could show up at any point. --__--__-- Phil: Oh, and I thought you were talking about some kind of nice hardwood thing. If a plastic storage tub blends into the decor of your living room, are you sure it's worth the trouble? :) From eng at pinenet.com Mon Jan 14 10:36:35 2002 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] hardware overkill Message-ID: <01C19CD3.CEDE6B40.eng@pinenet.com> Your thoughts are appreciated, and on the same track, Carl. The concept is mathematical, not electrical engineering. Resistance to current in any electrical circuit is a math problem solved just like friction in the motion of a large physical object. As you know, two "parallel" resistors drop the circuit resistance, while two "series" resistors increase circuit resistance. Computing development will always advance parallel processing. The first Apple had one CPU that created letters on the video screen one pixel at a time. Then a video processor was added to the next generation PC and the CPU could write one letter at a time. Then smart (parallel CPUs) PCs networked, replacing "dumb terminals" working off a central server CPU. When I began pushing "super networking" in the early 1980s, it was to take information control away from publishers of scientific journals. Very few people got to decide what was published and printed, and which library could afford which expensive books. Widely distributed fuel cells are the same concept. Look at all those absurdly expensive power lines leading to a central power plant. The power companies are fighting for their lives right now. They want to keep us "dumb terminals" from getting "smart." the Big Concept I had for computer architecture bears some resemblance to this; but I don't know enough about the Electrical Engineering details to know what's possible, and what isn't. Carl Soderstrom From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Mon Jan 14 10:40:04 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org>; from phil@rephil.org on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > [snip] Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jan 14 10:45:12 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: Question on desktop infrastructure In-Reply-To: <200201091521.JAA00722@xenon.bitstream.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, whisper wrote: > I currently work at a large corporation where we have ~50,000 desktops. I'm > wondering what other people on this list who work at companies like this do > for administration of these workstations, such as software rollout, > re-imaging, etc. To be honest, we are mainly a Netware shop, with some NT, > and only small amount of rogue machines running Linux. Most of the software > is rolled out through login scripts, and not through SMS or ZENWorks, Do absolutely everything you can to get ZEN running TODAY. ZENworks is the absoolute greatest desktop environment manager on the planet. (I'm assuming you know this already, but it bears repeating). > Getting it into server positions is probably not going to happen, > unless it will play _extremely_ well with AD and NDS. Any other > suggestions for how to get it brought in? I haven't used it yet, but Novell's E-directory for linux is supposed to bind NDS and LDAP together seamlessly. As for AD.. HAH!! Burn it!! make it STOP! Are you aware that Novell can manage NT/2K servers better than Microsoft can? Are you aware that you can create dynamic AD profiles in NDS and eliminate the need for any user admin on the NT/2K boxen? As for deploying linux into all of this I'm not really sure. Novell doesn't have any ZEN-like products for linux but with the help of E-directory admining accounts on linux boxen should be pretty smooth. -Brian From josh at greentechnologist.org Mon Jan 14 10:49:01 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So that's almost vanilla normal. You said the problem shows up for hda1. How about hda{2-3,5-6}? If the error is consistent across the device then perhaps it's driver issue. Another possibility that I hadn't considered before was that your partition and/or your windows filesystem is somehow unusual. How do you feel about posting the contents of your superblock and/or the partition boot record from hda1? That dmesg would still be nice. Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Brian wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > > > Brian, > > You've been attacking the wrong problem. While the error message stated > > something about the wrong major number that isn't really the problem. Your > > /dev/hda1 is perfectly fine and ought to be left alone. What *would* help > > is if you described what /dev/hda is, how it is partitioned > > /dev/hda is my sole 30GB ATA-1000 drive it's carved up something like > this: > > /dev/hda1 4GB Windows partition > /dev/hda2 250MB swap > /dev/hda3 1.5GB / > /dev/hda4 extended > /dev/hda5 10GB /usr > /dev/hda6 12GB /home > > and the > > relevant section from your dmesg. You also mentioned something about USB. > > I don't have the dmesg handy, I'll post it when I can get to it. > > > I think the problem is either hardware being identified improperly or your > > drivers are somehow wierd. The info I asked for should have some clues as > > to what the real problem is. > > As another poster suggested, is it possible I left out some ATA driver in > the kernel config? I don't recall ever having trouble with this drive so > I'm guessing there's no custom patches or anything that need to be loaded. > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8QwSyfexLsowstzcRArkTAJ9vMkjh4lh2W9ayI6I15evu5i2h9QCfT6FS 5ZciTO+eczVdZsKibWNpvJQ= =eCDu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jan 14 10:52:30 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <00ef01c19d16$03611560$3028680a@tgt.com> You are spending too much time in Physics class. In theory this is correct, but the output is extremely low and should not interfere much with anything, as per FCC regulations. It would be easier to bring in your FM to your receiver using Coax (by nature a RF sealed system, again in theory -- or you wouldn't need shielded cable) than it would to wrap your PC in a Faraday cage. Not to mention, there is software out there to allow you to trasmit AM broadcasts using your monitor -- so you need to wrap it as well. :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Burns" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) > You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the frequency of your > machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). > > Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you and your > neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals (at least around the > frequency of your clock) while your machine is running. :) > > - Jared > > On Sunday 13 January 2002 02:53 pm, you wrote: > > I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, > > including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious > > question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious > > computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option > > is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem > > waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? > > > > As part of building the box, if anyone has a Socket A chip > > of any speed they want to get rid of (i.e. if you're > > upgrading) I'm in the market. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Mon Jan 14 10:55:12 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <00f801c19d16$273f5d70$3028680a@tgt.com> Oh, yeah, use a wood outer case. You could stain it and make it look "Real Pretty", and certainly very custom for the living room. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Burns" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) > You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the frequency of your > machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). > > Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you and your > neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals (at least around the > frequency of your clock) while your machine is running. :) > > - Jared > > On Sunday 13 January 2002 02:53 pm, you wrote: > > I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, > > including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious > > question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious > > computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option > > is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem > > waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? > > > > As part of building the box, if anyone has a Socket A chip > > of any speed they want to get rid of (i.e. if you're > > upgrading) I'm in the market. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From andy at theasis.com Mon Jan 14 11:32:44 2002 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. Of course, then the same is true for /var, in the case of logs that grow fast or are never rotated. Andy From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Jan 14 11:58:55 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition Message-ID: I like segmentation, and my file server at home has a number of partitions. It makes things easier to move around when you get a new drive (but not one so new that it dwarfs your previous space -- those make it easy). It makes upgrading the OS a lot less fearful, but it has caused one problem: an upgrade from ext2 to ext3 (for all 10 partitions) made my file server run a bit slower. It isn't horrible, but noticable. I am not concerned enough to thoroughly investigate, but from looking things over a bit it seems that a daemon (kjournald?) runs for each partition to guarantee the journal is up to date (I assume). Is there anything else that could take the punch out of a server (K6-2 233MHz/384MB SDRAM) in the upgrade form RH71 to RH72? Have a great day, Troy From steveg at transition.com Mon Jan 14 12:26:38 2002 From: steveg at transition.com (Steve Grobe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) Message-ID: <21F2EFCC0249D211B7AE00C0F201008C8BC0F3@postman.transition.com> Tom, I gotta disagree with you. If what you said were true every PC manufacturer would ship their product in a plastic case without any shielding. Take your average home PC and remove it's case and it will fail FCC Class B (required for domestic use) by at least 20dB. This is not just a problem at the main clock frequency either, consider all the data buses with sub 10nS rise and fall times and what you end up with a really nice broadband noise generator. Most PCs do not meet FCC requirements with the case on. (Over the last ten years I have tested enough of them to know.) The amount of interference will depend on how close you are to the radio/TV station you are trying to monitor and their broadcast strength. It may not bother you in the same room trying to listen to KQRS, but your neighbor down the street trying to pick up shortwave transmissions will probably go nuts. If you start interfering with air traffic or police/fire frequencies the FCC can and sometimes will show up and make you shutdown your "transmitter". A wood/plastic case will not solve the ESD/safety problems either, the steel in a typical computer case also serves as an earth ground for safety reasons, a shield from ESD, and most importantly if something fails and gets really hot steel does not easily burn. I'd find a small steel case and build something that looks nice around it. Blah, blah, blah........ -----Original Message----- From: Thomas T. Veldhouse [mailto:veldy@veldy.net] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:11 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) You are spending too much time in Physics class. In theory this is correct, but the output is extremely low and should not interfere much with anything, as per FCC regulations. It would be easier to bring in your FM to your receiver using Coax (by nature a RF sealed system, again in theory -- or you wouldn't need shielded cable) than it would to wrap your PC in a Faraday cage. Not to mention, there is software out there to allow you to trasmit AM broadcasts using your monitor -- so you need to wrap it as well. :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Burns" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) > You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the frequency of your > machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). > > Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you and your > neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals (at least around the > frequency of your clock) while your machine is running. :) > > - Jared > > On Sunday 13 January 2002 02:53 pm, you wrote: > > I'm looking at building my own PC, but in a literal sense, > > including making a case (why not? to answer your obvious > > question. Actually so that I don't have to have an obvious > > computer case if I want it in the living room.) One option > > is to house it in a plastic storage tub, but it suddenly > > occured to me that ths may be a static electricity problem > > waiting to happen. Any thoughts from the engineering types? > > > > As part of building the box, if anyone has a Socket A chip > > of any speed they want to get rid of (i.e. if you're > > upgrading) I'm in the market. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Mon Jan 14 13:21:38 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static Electricity Message-ID: <200201141838.g0EIcOb14397@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I'd stick with a metal case and enclose that in something more decorative such as the coffee table idea. For most of whose electrical engineering training is limited to changing the batteries in the flashlight, static charge can be a difficult thing to relate to unless you've been struck by lightning. Identifying a ground path is not always trivial. How will you "ground" yourself when servicing the computer? You can't touch the metal case. A metal case also provides sheilding. Charge will migrate to the outside of a metal shell. Not so with wood. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Mon Jan 14 13:38:21 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gee Whiz (was Linux ain't so complicated) Message-ID: <200201141850.g0EIoJb19280@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Gee Whiz Dan. It was just a little anecdote. But thanks for taking the time to write that detailed review just the same. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From phil at rephil.org Mon Jan 14 14:25:37 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020114194713.GB10114@rephil.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 11:07:19AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > It makes things easier to move around when you > get a new drive (but not one so new that it dwarfs > your previous space -- those make it easy). Well, I think this is the part that I always used to believe, but upon reflection find to be not true. Of course everyone has their own way of doing things, but cp -a / is the same, whether going from a directory in a partition with other directories to a drive or drive to drive. Anyway, this is one dead horse I'm not going to dance to -- even if it does seem to have a good beat. ;) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From florin at iucha.net Mon Jan 14 14:52:05 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: References: <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20020114201810.GB1226@iucha.net> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 11:06:24AM -0600, andy@theasis.com wrote: > > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. > > Of course, then the same is true for /var, in the case of logs that grow > fast or are never rotated. florin@bear:~$ ls -l /var/log/lvm -rw-r----- 1 root adm 8010970 Jan 14 14:10 /var/log/lvm I have to trim that hog every other day... florin PS. I know about logrotate. It was just annoying that debian forgot to add lvm to logrotate and my server started bouncing e-mail. -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020114/abfb94d6/attachment.pgp From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Mon Jan 14 15:26:46 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Static electricity References: <20020114042254.27381.c000-h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <3C434420.69049259@mn.mediaone.net> Here's some ideas Plexiglass - http://bit-tech.net/article/53/ Model Car - http://www.overclockers.com.au/pcdb/view.php?name=BlueSmurf&page=pics Briefcase, toolbox - http://www.moddingzone.com/gallery/?m=view&top=points&pp=10 Turbine case (bucket?) - http://www.overclockers.com.au/pcdb/view.php?name=McGoff&page=pics And for those with discriminating taste... a case of beer - http://www.overclockers.com.au/pcdb/view.php?name=Beer&page=pics Paul Harris wrote: > Thanks for the info Bill and Phil :) It ties in with what I > thought, so I'll go back to evaluating the original idea of > a wooden case as Phil suggests (I thought the plastic might > be easier, but withthe grounding perhaps not). > > Cheers, Paul > > Bill: > Several things come to mind. Most plastics will readily > acquire static charges, so I think that bare plastic is > probably a bad idea. If you really want to use the tub, I > might suggest a shielding layer like metal foil > spray-mounted to the inside of the tub. This shield should > be made > common to the ground side of the supply (and motherboard as > well, if possible). This also will help with RFI issues, > which could show up at any point. > --__--__-- > > Phil: > Oh, and I thought you were talking about some kind of nice > hardwood thing. If a plastic storage tub blends into the > decor of your living room, are you sure it's worth the > trouble? :) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jan 14 16:33:04 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020114154749.27561392.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Joshua b. Jore" wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > So that's almost vanilla normal. You said the problem shows up for > hda1. How about hda{2-3,5-6}? If the error is consistent across the device > then perhaps it's driver issue. Yeah, look and see if the /proc/ide directory exists, and if there's anything in there. I'm curious, though, how the system could be booting up without mounting the disk.. Is there also have a SCSI drive in the system? -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ Have Tardis, will travel. / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020114/c5226758/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Mon Jan 14 17:40:16 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: <20020114154749.27561392.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > Yeah, look and see if the /proc/ide directory exists, and if there's > anything in there. I'll check tonight along with posting my dmesg. > I'm curious, though, how the system could be booting up without mounting > the disk.. Is there also have a SCSI drive in the system? There's no SCSI hard disks, just a SCSI CD-RW on an AHA-2940. I presume the partitions hda3, hda5 and hda6 are mounting fine since the mount from fstab as the system boots. I have, however, been seeing some odd problems with my MBR. If I reload LILO, linux boots fine but trying to boot off of /dev/hda1 just gives me an infinite loop of "unexpected EOF". If I do an fdisk /mbr and try to install Win98 on hda1, the reboot hangs. Win2K installs fine, but if I reload LILO I have the same EOF message. My current workaround is to set boot=/dev/hda3 instead of /dev/hda in lilo.conf, then do a dd if=/dev/hda3 of=boot.img bs=512 count=1 and boot the boot.img from Win2K's boot.ini. My computer boots fine, I can boot either Win2K or LILO from the Win2K menu. The only down side is that I can't mount /dev/hda1 under linux. Yes, it's formatted FAT32 :-) Now that I can painlessly boot into linux and use my FTP method for copying to and from partitions, this is not such a big issue. It's still bothersome though and I's like to find out what's going on. -Brian From josh at greentechnologist.org Mon Jan 14 20:35:21 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wrong major or minor number In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ok, definately post the first 512 bytes of /dev/hda and hda1. Also, now that I'm thinking furtuer, is /dev/hda1 really at the start of the drive or is it insanely far up the drive? Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Brian wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Mike Hicks wrote: > > > Yeah, look and see if the /proc/ide directory exists, and if there's > > anything in there. > > I'll check tonight along with posting my dmesg. > > > I'm curious, though, how the system could be booting up without mounting > > the disk.. Is there also have a SCSI drive in the system? > > There's no SCSI hard disks, just a SCSI CD-RW on an AHA-2940. I presume > the partitions hda3, hda5 and hda6 are mounting fine since the mount from > fstab as the system boots. > > I have, however, been seeing some odd problems with my MBR. If I reload > LILO, linux boots fine but trying to boot off of /dev/hda1 just gives me > an infinite loop of "unexpected EOF". If I do an fdisk /mbr and try to > install Win98 on hda1, the reboot hangs. Win2K installs fine, but if I > reload LILO I have the same EOF message. My current workaround is to set > boot=/dev/hda3 instead of /dev/hda in lilo.conf, then do a dd if=/dev/hda3 > of=boot.img bs=512 count=1 and boot the boot.img from Win2K's > boot.ini. My computer boots fine, I can boot either Win2K or LILO from > the Win2K menu. The only down side is that I can't mount /dev/hda1 under > linux. Yes, it's formatted FAT32 :-) > > Now that I can painlessly boot into linux and use my FTP method for > copying to and from partitions, this is not such a big issue. It's still > bothersome though and I's like to find out what's going on. > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Q5DufexLsowstzcRAuIhAKDbT+r/4S5Teb65rgyNUqesIe5RFwCg7sO0 mzv5Xl/cWCo/k2EfuRbw4A4= =3riK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dutchman at uswest.net Mon Jan 14 20:55:16 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PPP connection woes References: <3C40A8F9.CCCAD055@uswest.net> <3C40D978.F60375CE@urbanrage.com> <3C422AFA.EE2728B6@uswest.net> <3C42F949.2D6E7D79@urbanrage.com> Message-ID: <3C43289E.218A69C6@uswest.net> eric wrote: > Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > > I looked at the PPP Howto and it did not describe how to add PAP > > authentication > > in my scripts. Do you have a source on how to enable PAP? > > > > If you are using pppd as the underlying ppp mechanism (most likely the > case under linux) you need to add the login option to /etc/ppp/options > file (information about this can be found in the pppd manpage) > > login username > > you also need to add username to /etc/ppp/pap-secrets file with the > password > > the format of the pap-secrets file is described in the manpage for pppd, > but it goes something like this > > username ppp0 password > > password is in plaintext > > Eric Within the /etc/ppp/options file, I placed: requires-pap login name myloginname where myloginname is entered in the pap-secrets file as shown above. However, when I try this, the pppd daemon just hangs. Does anyone else login into USWest succesfully? If so, can you share what are the secret steps to enter this portal? By the way, thank you Eric for all your effort. -- Perry Hoekstra, MS E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From dutchman at uswest.net Mon Jan 14 22:29:27 2002 From: dutchman at uswest.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PPP connection woes References: <3C40A8F9.CCCAD055@uswest.net> <3C40D978.F60375CE@urbanrage.com> <3C422AFA.EE2728B6@uswest.net> <3C42F949.2D6E7D79@urbanrage.com> <3C43289E.218A69C6@uswest.net> <3C435D43.5851EEB7@urbanrage.com> Message-ID: <3C43A300.21E1638F@uswest.net> eric wrote: > Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > > > Within the /etc/ppp/options file, I placed: > > > > requires-pap > > login > > name myloginname > > > > where myloginname is entered in the pap-secrets file as shown above. > > However, when I try this, the pppd daemon just hangs. Does anyone else > > login into USWest succesfully? If so, can you share what are the secret > > steps to enter this portal? > > > > As a test to see if it's USWest problem or on your box still, try > connecting to BattleFoundry (it's an isp that I work for). This will at > least help target where your problem is... Eric: Thank you very much for the support! I was able to finally get my problem resolved but not before I could prove to myself that I could log in through pap into BattleFoundry. I looked at your site for your rates. If USWest does move me over to MSN (though I have not heard anything from them), I will be looking you guys up. The only reason I don't now is the thought of having to change my email address. It would cut out the spam for awhile (but it would still seek me out), but too many people have my address. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Mon Jan 14 22:43:46 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux Message-ID: <200201150414.g0F4E9b08790@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Story at: http://www/linuxppc.org If anyone is interested in how XP stacks up against Linux for embedded systems go to. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/xp/evaluation/compare/ -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From phil at rephil.org Mon Jan 14 23:52:05 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020114150158.GA8684@rephil.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 08:05:54AM -0600, Jared Burns wrote: > You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the > frequency of your machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). Boy, I wish it were that simple. And the clock freqs you list don't make a lot of sense. The trouble is that for one, you have more than one frequency in the machine -- what about the video outs? What about clock dividers / multipliers? The other problem is that we like nice mostly square pulses, but that means boatloads of harmonics -- IIRC a single Dirac pulse function is energy at all freqs. Anyway, the upshot is that both harmonics and sub-harmonics are generated in scads, so your radiated spectra is anything but clean. (Kelly or any other Hams -- keep me honest here.) For that matter, you're violating some FCC rules/laws if you let these kind of emissions out, but that doesn't mean they'd catch on. > Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you > and your neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals > (at least around the frequency of your clock) while your machine is > running. :) Speaking of Faraday cages, does anyone know what it is they do that they needed to build one around the new Alumni center at the U? ;) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jan 15 00:11:45 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Google: minnesota linux Message-ID: <20020114234258.Z4915@real-time.com> Thanks to everyone for their hints and help on google. TCLUG now is #1 when you search for "minnesota linux" -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jan 15 00:14:51 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020114154732.GG6656@fandre.com>; from cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 09:47:32AM -0600 References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <20020114154732.GG6656@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020115000629.I4915@real-time.com> Quoting Clay Fandre (cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org): > I'm using a ATI Wonder TV tuner card to capture TV video. It has a composite > input so you can connect it to your VCR or camcorder. Works pretty well. I > also have a Firewire card which I use with my Sony HandyCam to capture video. > > You can even create VCDs so you can watch your videos on your DVD player. > http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/VCR-HOWTO.html > This smells like a presentation. Lots of cool stuff listed above, which I'm sure lots of people probably don't know linux can do. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From myok at ogzr.org Tue Jan 15 00:26:30 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Myok) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring References: <20020114051324.GC9279@iucha.net> <20020114142000.GD8429@rephil.org> Message-ID: <000501c19d11$57f0faa0$4165a8c0@here> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Home wiring > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 11:13:24PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > I have just got back from MicroCenter. In the bargain book department > > they have "Cabling: The Complete Guide to Network Cabling" > > (ISBN:0-7821-2645-6) for $5.99 . > > Sounds promising, but is it any good? > It's excellent, 808 pages covering everything including all the stuff discussed in this thread. I paid cover price for it several months ago when I was learning how to crimp my own patch cables. -- Carl Patten From florin at iucha.net Tue Jan 15 00:29:11 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: <20020114142000.GD8429@rephil.org> References: <20020114051324.GC9279@iucha.net> <20020114142000.GD8429@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020114153530.GA1226@iucha.net> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 08:20:00AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 11:13:24PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > I have just got back from MicroCenter. In the bargain book department > > they have "Cabling: The Complete Guide to Network Cabling" > > (ISBN:0-7821-2645-6) for $5.99 . > > Sounds promising, but is it any good? Obviously I haven't had time to read it, but from my wiring experience (connecting a NIC to a hub) it's great 8^). It has a lot of wiring tables, pictures of crimpers... and a lot of abbreviations. That's why I gave the ISBN so you can search for reviews, see how many pages it has (it's a brick)... etc. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020115/dc145071/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Jan 15 01:15:02 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New future Linux enthusiast In-Reply-To: <20020110134813.GD29157@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:32:24AM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > Proud Dad here. I just wanted to announce that Wilson Child 2.0 was > released today. No major features were added in the new version, but the > product was delivered much more quickly this time around. Pictures and > details at http://www.qwerk.org/reese/ Congratulations! Don't forget to clothe your new revision at Thinkgeek! http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/apparel/kids.shtml -Brian From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jan 15 01:52:42 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Mon, 2002-01-14 at 09:59, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > > > [snip] > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. > > -- Don't disk quotas do a better job of that? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jan 15 01:55:21 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Static electricity Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0035148BD@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Remember those fake wood cellphone covers for the Nokia 2160's? I wish I could get a case made out of that stuff. See it here: http://store5.yimg.com/I/cell-accessories_1665_3652341 Of course, it would need a door to hide my ugly beige cdroms and floppy. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Harris [mailto:PaulHarris@Bigfoot.com] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:23 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Static electricity > > > Thanks for the info Bill and Phil :) It ties in with what I > thought, so I'll go back to evaluating the original idea of > a wooden case as Phil suggests (I thought the plastic might > be easier, but withthe grounding perhaps not). > > Cheers, Paul > > Bill: > Several things come to mind. Most plastics will readily > acquire static charges, so I think that bare plastic is > probably a bad idea. If you really want to use the tub, I > might suggest a shielding layer like metal foil > spray-mounted to the inside of the tub. This shield should > be made > common to the ground side of the supply (and motherboard as > well, if possible). This also will help with RFI issues, > which could show up at any point. > --__--__-- > > Phil: > Oh, and I thought you were talking about some kind of nice > hardwood thing. If a plastic storage tub blends into the > decor of your living room, are you sure it's worth the > trouble? :) > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From schanno at tcfreenet.org Tue Jan 15 02:39:21 2002 From: schanno at tcfreenet.org (Terry R Schanno) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Static electricity In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0035148BD@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020115020353.R72237-100000@tcfreenet.org> > Remember those fake wood cellphone covers for the Nokia 2160's? I wish I > could get a case made out of that stuff. See it here: > http://store5.yimg.com/I/cell-accessories_1665_3652341 You can buy adhesive sheets of Wood laminet at most hardware stores. They are used for repairing the cheap fake wood furniture most department stores sell these days You've got to be real careful not to get air bubbles, but I'm sure you could apply the tape, then schlack it or otherwise get a glossy finish. Terry Schanno TCFN Volunteer Coordinator schanno@tcfreenet.org From phil at rephil.org Tue Jan 15 02:59:53 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <00ef01c19d16$03611560$3028680a@tgt.com> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> <00ef01c19d16$03611560$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20020114175441.GB9513@rephil.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:10:40AM -0600, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > You are spending too much time in Physics class. In theory this is correct, > but the output is extremely low and should not interfere much with anything, > as per FCC regulations. Um, you'd be surprised, though it does depend on how you define low. Trying to get boxes to satisfy regs can be interesting. But we have it easy -- the spurious emission regs to allow RF gear in Germany (maybe the EC, now) are very _difficult_ to hit. > cage. Not to mention, there is software out there to allow you to trasmit > AM broadcasts using your monitor -- so you need to wrap it as well. > > :) I knew that some federal law enforcement / intelligence agencies had gear that will allow them to basically see what's on your screen, but I'd never thought about turning it around the other way! -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From mglaser at umn.edu Tue Jan 15 03:02:32 2002 From: mglaser at umn.edu (Michael Glaser) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c Message-ID: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> Has anyone done it? If so, where can I find the software to install it? I have heard of Yellow Dog Linux, but it looks like it does not run on this model. I have access to an Apple PowerBook 1400c laptop that currently has Mac OS 9 on it. It is very slow. I am unfamiliar with Mac anything and would much rather have Linux on it. What are my options? Also, the laptop has a MPC-100 PCMCIA 10/100 Ethernet card that is made by 'Macsense'. Is there any chance that this would be supported? The manufacturer has no linux info. on their web site that I could find. The card is supposed to work with any of the following howwever: MacOS 7.5.3 and up, Win95 OSR2, Win98, NT 3.51/4.0, and NetWare 3.x/4.x. If I cannot get the NIC to run, the laptop will be useless to me. When I have used laptops and Linux in the past, the NIC has always been integrated (not PCMCIA) and they have worked well. Thanks, Mike From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Tue Jan 15 05:23:57 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020115000629.I4915@real-time.com> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <20020114154732.GG6656@fandre.com> <20020115000629.I4915@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020115104820.GA28799@fandre.com> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Clay Fandre (cfandre@maddog.mn-linux.org): > > I'm using a ATI Wonder TV tuner card to capture TV video. It has a composite > > input so you can connect it to your VCR or camcorder. Works pretty well. I > > also have a Firewire card which I use with my Sony HandyCam to capture video. > > > > You can even create VCDs so you can watch your videos on your DVD player. > > http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/VCR-HOWTO.html > > > > This smells like a presentation. Lots of cool stuff listed above, which I'm sure > lots of people probably don't know linux can do. Yea, you're probably right. This is the kind of stuff that really shows the power of Linux/UNIX and the command-line. Some of the stuff I'm doing would be difficult/impossible to do in a GUI. And since a lot of it is bleading-edge and just-recently developed, most of it isn't documented yet. Makes it really hard for newcomers to realize the capabilities and the potential of Linux. I will try and schedule this topic for a future meeting. -- Clay From techy_stuff at lycos.com Tue Jan 15 07:56:18 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! Message-ID: I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how can I directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable from outside? Regards From kelly-black at mediaone.net Tue Jan 15 08:10:24 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <20020114150158.GA8684@rephil.org> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> <20020114150158.GA8684@rephil.org> Message-ID: <02011506171600.00371@edith> Cant speak to the U of M's setup, but at UND they just lined the whole room with fine wire mesh. I suppose you could line the inside of a wood cabinet with a wire mesh to get an effective Faraday cage, but you should be carefull to not have the MB touch it in and have it short out the power and ground rails. The aluminum spray idea also seemed to be a good way to go, although I don't know where you find it. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 14 January 2002 09:01, you wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 08:05:54AM -0600, Jared Burns wrote: > > You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the > > frequency of your machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). > > Boy, I wish it were that simple. And the clock freqs you list don't > make a lot of sense. > > The trouble is that for one, you have more than one frequency in the > machine -- what about the video outs? What about clock dividers / > multipliers? > > The other problem is that we like nice mostly square pulses, but that > means boatloads of harmonics -- IIRC a single Dirac pulse function is > energy at all freqs. Anyway, the upshot is that both harmonics and > sub-harmonics are generated in scads, so your radiated spectra is > anything but clean. > > (Kelly or any other Hams -- keep me honest here.) > > For that matter, you're violating some FCC rules/laws if you let these > kind of emissions out, but that doesn't mean they'd catch on. > > > Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you > > and your neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals > > (at least around the frequency of your clock) while your machine is > > running. :) > > Speaking of Faraday cages, does anyone know what it is they do that > they needed to build one around the new Alumni center at the U? ;) From nate at techie.com Tue Jan 15 08:41:24 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: ; from techy_stuff@lycos.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:23:00AM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20020115080732.B7130@candle.mn.mediaone.net> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:23:00AM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS > server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of > my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how > can I directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable > from outside? I hope you do understand that what you want to do is grounds for losing your Internet connection. Read your service agreement again. BTW, DSL and cable are mutually exclusive. Nate From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Jan 15 09:03:14 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1011104649.3079.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 07:23, Jimmy Jam wrote: > I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how can I directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable from outside? > > Regards Unless you are planning on hosting a lot of domains and you need a lot of configurability, I would advise letting someone else do your DNS. When you register a domain with Verio (and other companies) they will do your DNS for free, even if you don't host your site with them. That's what I did with my wife's domain. On our LAN, we have a Linux server doing DNS, but it is only local, providing the non-routing addresses we use internally. This will also save you many security headaches. I've had my public DNS servers cracked twice. While some of that is my own fault for not keeping up on security patches, BIND is a known security hole waiting to happen. Yes, I know there are other DNS servers out there. And my own opinion is certainly colored by my experiences being cracked. But there it is, take it with whatever size grain of salt you want. Dave Sherman -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From veldy at veldy.net Tue Jan 15 09:49:02 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! References: Message-ID: <003a01c19dd5$933c4500$3028680a@tgt.com> It isn't DSL if it is cable modem. However, you can do it by running bind on your machine and opening incoming and out going 53/udp and incoming 53/tcp. You need a firewall setup correctly, which I won't help with :) Anyway, also, you need to set up bind to forward DNS requests to your ISPs nameserver (who probably doesn't particularily like you running services since you are on a cable modem -- see your AUP). You should take a look at the linux DNS HOWTO. Also, you IP address probably changes from time to time (since you use cable and most cable ISPs use DHCP to assign addresses), and thus the running of bind becomes problematic. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Jam" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:23 AM Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! > I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how can I directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable from outside? > > Regards > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Tue Jan 15 09:58:06 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:56:02AM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020115091843.A21615@trammell.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:56:02AM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > On Mon, 2002-01-14 at 09:59, John J. Trammell wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:59:35AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > I'm doing some shuffling of some systems, and I've got a question. > > > I know *HOW* to partition drives, but frankly I'm finding partitions > > > to be more of an asset than a liability. > > > > > > The reasons I have so far that justify creating a partition are: > > > > > [snip] > > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. > > > > -- > Don't disk quotas do a better job of that? > Perhaps in /home, but another poster mentioned /var... -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org From Ben at Workscited.Net Tue Jan 15 10:26:34 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c In-Reply-To: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> References: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> Message-ID: <200201151547.g0FFl4521463@sprite.real-time.com> On Monday 14 January 2002 11:56, Michael Glaser wrote: > Has anyone done it? If so, where can I find the software to install it? I > have heard of Yellow Dog Linux, but it looks like it does not run on this > model. > Also, the laptop has a MPC-100 PCMCIA 10/100 Ethernet card that is made by > 'Macsense'. Is there any chance that this would be supported? Michael, you're welcome to borrow my Yellow Dog 2.0 CDs and give it a try. I had little (only two weeks...) trouble getting Yellow Dog working smoothly on a PowerBook G3 Wallstreet, but in order to do it I had to enter some information by hand that I would never have thought of: trackpad support, middle & right mouse buttons, and so on. I was able to find this info on the Web for the G3, but it may not be the same for the 1400c. I found Yellow Dog to have surprisingly good hardware support, so your PC card may well be supported. If you have access to a high-speed Internet connection and a CD burner, you might try downloading a variety of distributions -- Yellow Dog 2.1, Mandrake PPC, Debian PPC -- and try each of them to see which has the best hardware support. I will say that after using Linux on my PowerBook for about 6 months, I bought an Athlon PC, put Linux on that, and now I'm selling my PowerBook. Linux runs competently on the Mac -- in some ways better than Mac OS -- but it runs better on a PC. That's my opinion. --Ben From techy_stuff at lycos.com Tue Jan 15 10:30:03 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet unsafe? Message-ID: I was told on this list that telnet is quite unsafe and provides serious security loopholes (at least on Linux boxes). What if telnet is used behind a firewall? That should be safe right? What if the telnet port (23) is exposed to the outside wall via a firewall? Is that still unsafe? Regards From techy_stuff at lycos.com Tue Jan 15 10:32:42 2002 From: techy_stuff at lycos.com (Jimmy Jam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! Message-ID: I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how can I directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable from outside? Regards From phil at rephil.org Tue Jan 15 10:41:05 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020115091843.A21615@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020115091843.A21615@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20020115161200.GB557@rephil.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:18:43AM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:56:02AM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > On Mon, 2002-01-14 at 09:59, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > [snip] > > > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > > > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > > > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. > > > > > > -- > > Don't disk quotas do a better job of that? > > > > Perhaps in /home, but another poster mentioned /var... OK -- but from a security standpoint, no one that isn't capable of fixing the system should be allowed to write in such a way that they can crash the system. Actually, no user should be allowed to do *anything* they can't fix, but we have to be careful starting down that path. Either way, you are correct from a pragmatic point of view (I'd say), but from an idealistic point of view, one could argue that *every* user (even daemons and root) should have quotas, disk space being finite. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From Mary at DesignerDoors.com Tue Jan 15 10:49:38 2002 From: Mary at DesignerDoors.com (Mary Ayala) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lindows.com needs help Message-ID: <0C0E79993A63D411BC3A00D0B784A7E5378202@DDMAIL> If you don't think Lindows is a good thing then simply don't read this, otherwise they need help. Below is an e-mail that I received. BEGIN Dear Lindows.com Friend, Some of you have asked about information on the trademark dispute with Microsoft Corporation, so here's a quick update and even a way that you can help us if you are so inclined. Microsoft is complaining that our use of LindowsOS (TM) and Lindows.com (TM) will cause confusion between our product and Windows XP Professional or Windows XP Home. We don't think people will confuse our products because they're very different and that the true reason Microsoft is attacking us is because of what our product does and not because what it is named. Also, we feel obligated to disclose to you that we were compelled to disclose your email address to Microsoft during the discovery process as well as the content of many of your messages sent to us. We were not happy about doing this, but we had little choice. We have received assurances from Microsoft that they will not use or disclose your address for any purpose beyond this case. Here's how you can help. We are composing a list of the many hundreds of products named "Windows Something" or "Something Windows" or even variations on the word windows, which are not from Microsoft. We know there are many, many products that fit this characterization and we could use your assistance to help us create this list. We are looking for hardware products, software products, products for any operating system and even operating systems themselves. You can help us generate this list at http://www.lindows.com/list in three different ways: 1. By submitting titles which can be added to our list by filling out this simple http://www.lindows.com/lindows_home_list_form.php 2. Send in printed materials which use the term "window(s)" generically such as software boxes or complete manuals to our offices, the older the better: Lindows.com, Inc. Attn: Legal Info 4350 La Jolla Village Drive Suite 450 San Diego, CA 92122 3. Email us at userpoll@lindows.com with any digital photos or scanned images from such products that you may own. Please note: We MUST receive these by 24th January 2002 to review them in time for inclusion in our legal case. Thanks for any assistance you can provide us. Michael Robertson CEO of Lindows.com michaelr@lindows.com END From phil at rephil.org Tue Jan 15 11:23:51 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet unsafe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020115163725.GD557@rephil.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:27:42AM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > I was told on this list that telnet is quite unsafe and provides > serious security loopholes (at least on Linux boxes). What if > telnet is used behind a firewall? That should be safe right? What > if the telnet port (23) is exposed to the outside wall via a > firewall? Is that still unsafe? Yes. The *way* that telnet is unsafe is that everything you type is just sent over the net the way you type it. So if someone watches your connection (because the net is just a big party line) they could get your passwords. telnet internally is OK, *BUT* still no more convenient than ssh. Basically, telnet is like signing a check in pencil -- just use a pen. -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From lxy at cloudnet.com Tue Jan 15 11:32:30 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet unsafe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Jimmy Jam wrote: > I was told on this list that telnet is quite unsafe and provides > serious security loopholes Yup, major holes, unencrypted passwords, YUCK. > What if telnet is used behind a firewall? That should be safe > right? As long as no one from outside can telnet into you, yes. Be careful of who's on your network since your passwords and sessions are in plain text, it's easy to sniff the telnet session. > What if the telnet port (23) is exposed to the outside wall via > a firewall? Is that still unsafe? BAD BAD BAD. Turn off telnet completely. Telnet, by design, is a text only protocol. When you type your root password (or any password for that matter) it goes along the line unencrypted and easily sniffable. Logging into telnet is basically giving away your passwords to anyone on the internet who wants them. Add in the latest exploit found in the telnet daemon, and you've got a really insecure admin tool. www.openssh.org -Brian From sraun at fireopal.org Tue Jan 15 11:42:12 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New Linux Palmtop Message-ID: <20020115104628.A13004@fireopal.org> But not intended as a palm device, but rather a complete standalone. "An Indian group hopes to change that image with the Simputer, a device designed to bring portable computing and the information age to developing countries." See the article at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5101605,00.html -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jan 15 11:44:44 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet unsafe? In-Reply-To: ; from techy_stuff@lycos.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:27:42AM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20020115104745.E28472@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:27:42AM -0800, Jimmy Jam wrote: > I was told on this list that telnet is quite unsafe and provides serious security loopholes (at least on Linux boxes). What if telnet is used behind a firewall? That should be safe right? What if the telnet port (23) is exposed to the outside wall via a firewall? Is that still unsafe? Telnet is unsafe for any use in which data will be passed across the same physical network as any machine which is not completely trusted. Any machine on any network the data is passed across is capable of trivially detecting any data sent across the telnet connection - including your password. Use ssh instead if at all possible. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From trammell at trammell.dyndns.org Tue Jan 15 12:28:17 2002 From: trammell at trammell.dyndns.org (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020115161200.GB557@rephil.org>; from phil@rephil.org on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:12:00AM -0600 References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020115091843.A21615@trammell.dyndns.org> <20020115161200.GB557@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020115120550.A23426@trammell.dyndns.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:12:00AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:18:43AM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:56:02AM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > > On Mon, 2002-01-14 at 09:59, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > > > > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > > > > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. > > > > > > > Don't disk quotas do a better job of that? > > > > > > > Perhaps in /home, but another poster mentioned /var... > > OK -- but from a security standpoint, no one that isn't capable of > fixing the system should be allowed to write in such a way that they > can crash the system. Actually, no user should be allowed to do > *anything* they can't fix, but we have to be careful starting down > that path. > > Either way, you are correct from a pragmatic point of view (I'd > say), but from an idealistic point of view, one could argue that > *every* user (even daemons and root) should have quotas, disk space > being finite. > Good, because I'm a pragmatist. :-) The thought of sitting down to work out new disk quotas every time I add a user gives me the willies. It is far less work for me in my current position to just partition. -- johntrammell@yahoo.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org From fish at slava.net Tue Jan 15 12:53:11 2002 From: fish at slava.net (Lorry Lee Strother) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020115082553.A9378@slava.net> To my knowledge a cable modem has nothing to do with DSL, but if you have a cable connection like I do, your provider probably doesn't allow you to run a server without some fancy expensive package, and if you got the fancy expensive package they'd probably tell you how to do it (just guessing on that one). I got a letter from Time Warner about how we aren't allowed to have servers. Several people have mentioned if you're not planning on it having any real traffic, they'll never notice, but what can I say... I'm a rule-follower. Lorry On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 05:23:00AM -0800, Jimmy Jam typed: > I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of my ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how can I directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable from outside? > > Regards > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jan 15 13:26:22 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020115120550.A23426@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020115091843.A21615@trammell.dyndns.org> <20020115161200.GB557@rephil.org> <20020115120550.A23426@trammell.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1011119534.4279.3.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 12:05, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:12:00AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 09:18:43AM -0600, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 10:56:02AM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2002-01-14 at 09:59, John J. Trammell wrote: > > > > > [snip] > > > > > Another good reason I haven't seen yet is that if say /home/ > > > > > has its own partition, a user app going nuts and filling up > > > > > the partition won't trash the machine. Nice segmentation there. > > > > > > > > > Don't disk quotas do a better job of that? > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps in /home, but another poster mentioned /var... > > > > OK -- but from a security standpoint, no one that isn't capable of > > fixing the system should be allowed to write in such a way that they > > can crash the system. Actually, no user should be allowed to do > > *anything* they can't fix, but we have to be careful starting down > > that path. > > > > Either way, you are correct from a pragmatic point of view (I'd > > say), but from an idealistic point of view, one could argue that > > *every* user (even daemons and root) should have quotas, disk space > > being finite. > > > > Good, because I'm a pragmatist. :-) > > The thought of sitting down to work out new disk quotas every time I > add a user gives me the willies. It is far less work for me in my > current position to just partition. > > -- I'm fairly sure that that process can and should be automated, if you're going to be doing it at all often. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From blayer at qwest.net Tue Jan 15 14:21:39 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition In-Reply-To: <20020115091843.A21615@trammell.dyndns.org> References: <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020112115935.A19155@rephil.org> <20020114095908.A8688@trammell.dyndns.org> <1011027362.3173.15.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.19980101001134.009e43a0@pop.mpls.qwest.net> At 09:18 AM 1/15/02 -0600, you wrote: > > Don't disk quotas do a better job of that? > > > >Perhaps in /home, but another poster mentioned /var... There are several good reasons to partition a drive. Here are a few in no particular order; 1) some partitions get a lot of read/write access, while others do not. It's nice to keep them separate so that there are no unnecessary write operations (and hence fragmentation) of partitions that can do without. For example, /var and /tmp are rapidly changing, while /boot and /usr might remain static. Why run the chance of fragmenting or corrupting an entire filesystem when partitioning them is free? 2) it is very useful to have /boot on it's own partition, so in the event that the root partition is corrupted, the system is still bootable without repair disks (like Tom's). I have also heard of critical systems having several redundant /boot partitions. 3) it's also useful to have /home or /usr on their own partitions, so that they can easily be grown as the system expands. /usr can get very large, and /home might also if suddenly the number of users needs to increase. Nice to just add a new 90GB disk and mount it to /home... And once again, on a system that is getting no new software, the content of /usr is usually static and may be mounted read-only. can't do that if /usr is on the / partition. 4) I like to keep several partitions open after a setup, which may at any time be committed to different jobs. More mp3 space, another operating system, a native disk for VMware etc. Hope some of these made sense! -Bill From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Jan 15 14:56:26 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why partition Message-ID: >>> joelr@ellegon.com 01/15/02 12:32PM >>> >On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 12:05, John J. Trammell wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:12:00AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: >> > Either way, you are correct from a pragmatic point of view (I'd >> > say), but from an idealistic point of view, one could argue that >> > *every* user (even daemons and root) should have quotas, disk space >> > being finite. >> Good, because I'm a pragmatist. :-) >> The thought of sitting down to work out new disk quotas every time I >> add a user gives me the willies. It is far less work for me in my >> current position to just partition. >I'm fairly sure that that process can and should be >automated, if you're going to be doing it at all often. Even if you spend the time automating the process, if it provides no benefit _that_you_appreciate_ over the partitioning method, and you're going to have multiple partitions anyway (i.e. multiple disks), the partitioning method is easier. From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jan 15 16:30:59 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020115082553.A9378@slava.net> References: <20020115082553.A9378@slava.net> Message-ID: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 08:25, Lorry Lee Strother wrote: > To my knowledge a cable modem has nothing to do with DSL, but if you have > a cable connection like I do, your provider probably doesn't allow you to run > a server without some fancy expensive package, and if you got the fancy > expensive package they'd probably tell you how to do it (just guessing on that > one). I got a letter from Time Warner about how we aren't allowed to have > servers. Several people have mentioned if you're not planning on it having any > real traffic, they'll never notice, but what can I say... I'm a rule-follower. > The term "server" is ambiguous. I'm sure that they're not going to try to prevent me from running, say, fetchmail. But an Apache server, sure. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From wilson at visi.com Tue Jan 15 17:17:11 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MUAs and mailbox formats Message-ID: Hi everyone, I've been messing around with mutt a bit lately and in the process I think I've converted my mailbox format unknowingly. My home directory has a mail *and* Mail directory as well as an mbox file. mbox appears to contain all the messages that aren't otherwise filed in their own folders (i.e., it's my "inbox"). The mail folder contains all the mail folders I've made. Now when I use pine I get a message: "Moved xxxx bytes of new mail to /home/wilson/mbox from /var/mail/wilson." So presumably I've somehow converted myself from maildir to mbox format. Is that correct? I'd like to set up some procmail rules. Should I reference /var/mail/wilson or /home/wilson/mbox? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From fish at slava.net Tue Jan 15 17:38:51 2002 From: fish at slava.net (Lorry) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> References: <20020115082553.A9378@slava.net> <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020115165528.A11200@slava.net> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:36:51PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg typed: > The term "server" is ambiguous. I'm sure that they're not going to try > to prevent me from running, say, fetchmail. But an Apache server, > sure. I was responding from memory, but I've gotten the letter they sent me out. To prevent ambiguity: "The server types included HTTP (web), FTP, POP3 and SMTP (Mail), NNTP (News), DNS, Gaming, and other servers." Lorry From derekschramm at yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 19:09:35 2002 From: derekschramm at yahoo.com (Derek Schramm) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Linux Courses @ Saint Paul Tech Message-ID: <20020111185938.14870.qmail@web12105.mail.yahoo.com> Saint Paul Technical College has Linux courses. Beginners Linux Monday and Wednesday Night. Linux Admin Thursday night. Linux C/C++ was dropped. Linux Networking probable this summer. Visit www.sptc.mnscu.edu for enrollment and www.sptc.mnscu.edu/academics/catalog/catalog_c.pdf for course descriptions. Linux students must have IDE ATA/33 or ATA/66 4Mb+ HD and RH-32 rack for removable hard drives. These can be purchased at school bookstore. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net Tue Jan 15 20:10:02 2002 From: markbrowne at mn.mediaone.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> <20020114150158.GA8684@rephil.org> <02011506171600.00371@edith> Message-ID: <003f01c19e2d$656acea0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Getting a good RF shield is a tricky affair. My company has spent considerable time working with these issues. As far as a radio wave is concerned, a very thin slot is just about as big an opening as a big hole. Think gaps around doors and drives. At one gHz you are trying to prevent any opening larger than ~ 1 centimeter. Them little copper finger seals thingies and interlocking joints really do a pretty good jog of keeping your computer off the air. Considering the difficulties, I am surprised with how well cheap cases do work. Usually not as good as they should, but better than you are likely to do on your own. I am leaning towards putting a regular case inside something else. Don't forget good cooling; excessive heat is a significant factor in reduced reliability and life. Mark Browne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Black" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) Cant speak to the U of M's setup, but at UND they just lined the whole room with fine wire mesh. I suppose you could line the inside of a wood cabinet with a wire mesh to get an effective Faraday cage, but you should be carefull to not have the MB touch it in and have it short out the power and ground rails. The aluminum spray idea also seemed to be a good way to go, although I don't know where you find it. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Monday 14 January 2002 09:01, you wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 08:05:54AM -0600, Jared Burns wrote: > > You machine will emit RF (radio frequency) radiation at the > > frequency of your machine's clock frequency (100kHz, 133kHz, etc.). > > Boy, I wish it were that simple. And the clock freqs you list don't > make a lot of sense. > > The trouble is that for one, you have more than one frequency in the > machine -- what about the video outs? What about clock dividers / > multipliers? > > The other problem is that we like nice mostly square pulses, but that > means boatloads of harmonics -- IIRC a single Dirac pulse function is > energy at all freqs. Anyway, the upshot is that both harmonics and > sub-harmonics are generated in scads, so your radiated spectra is > anything but clean. > > (Kelly or any other Hams -- keep me honest here.) > > For that matter, you're violating some FCC rules/laws if you let these > kind of emissions out, but that doesn't mean they'd catch on. > > > Make sure you have the components inclosed in a Faraday cage or you > > and your neighbors will have a hard time picking up radio signals > > (at least around the frequency of your clock) while your machine is > > running. :) > > Speaking of Faraday cages, does anyone know what it is they do that > they needed to build one around the new Alumni center at the U? ;) _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbullock at ringworld.org Tue Jan 15 20:42:02 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux References: <200201150414.g0F4E9b08790@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> I couldn't access the original story - linuxppc.org wouldn't come up. I probably don't really need to point out that one '/' needs to be changed to a '.' in the address you gave. As the the quoted website, I got the impression from the text of your e-mail that it was meant to be an impartial comparison. In the context of this list, and given the source of the site, I don't believe that's really what was meant. With that disclaimer, I'll proceed with my rant about the site. :) More Microsoft FUD. The basic content is, "Embedded Linux isn't viable because it doesn't support our proprietary protocols, even though it supports these other ones that aren't really as good. Oh, and in our benchmarking, we didn't test XP embedded, we tested XP Pro instead, comparing them to our older, buggier, slower OSes. Meanwhile we didn't collect any data on Linux for comparison." I'd like to see a more impassionate comparison. Not to mention a better-researched one. -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock Paul Overby wrote: > If anyone is interested in how XP stacks up against Linux for embedded > systems go to. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/xp/evaluation/compare/ From HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu Tue Jan 15 21:12:15 2002 From: HOEFFNER at dcmir.med.umn.edu (HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux Message-ID: <020115204848.23607d71@dcmir.med.umn.edu> OK, if you're in one of those moods, I found this somewhat distasteful, if not all that surprising. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2102244,00.html Ed Hoeffner 1-271 BSBE 312 Church St. SE Mpls, MN 55455 hoeffner@dcmir.med.umn.edu 612-625-2115 612-625-2163 fax From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Tue Jan 15 22:08:45 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux In-Reply-To: <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> References: <200201150414.g0F4E9b08790@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <200201160358.g0G3wEb06665@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Tuesday 15 January 2002 08:30 pm, you wrote: > I couldn't access the original story - linuxppc.org wouldn't come up. I > probably don't really need to point out that one '/' needs to be changed > to a '.' in the address you gave. http://www.linuxppc.org > As the the quoted website, I got the impression from the text of your > e-mail that it was meant to be an impartial comparison. In the context > of this list, and given the source of the site, I don't believe that's > really what was meant. > SORRY!. The first link sets the context for the second story which is clearly hype not really based on any apparent facts or research. My Text was indedd poorly worded. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From drake+tclug at lemongecko.org Tue Jan 15 22:50:54 2002 From: drake+tclug at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MUAs and mailbox formats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020116043429.GA12939@lemongecko.org> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 at 04:44PM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > I've been messing around with mutt a bit lately and in the process I > think I've converted my mailbox format unknowingly. My home directory > has a mail *and* Mail directory as well as an mbox file. mbox appears to > contain all the messages that aren't otherwise filed in their own > folders (i.e., it's my "inbox"). The mail folder contains all the mail > folders I've made. Well, out of the box, Pine uses ~/mail and Mutt uses ~/Mail. The ~/mbox file is Pine. > Now when I use pine I get a message: "Moved xxxx bytes of new mail to > /home/wilson/mbox from /var/mail/wilson." > > So presumably I've somehow converted myself from maildir to mbox > format. Is that correct? What MTA are you using, and how is it set up? /var/mail/wilson is probably just an mbox file where your MTA puts incoming mail. I think the usual default configuration of Debian and RedHat (and probably other distros) is mbox files in /var/mail or /var/spool/mail or whatever. My guess is that there's no maildir stuff going on, and it's all just mbox files. Someone else should back me up on this or correct me... > I'd like to set up some procmail rules. Should I reference > /var/mail/wilson or /home/wilson/mbox? You either have to configure your MTA to talk to procmail, or use a .forward file to have your incoming mail fed to procmail. I think you could use either file you mentioned above, but Mutt will probably automatically look for /var/mail/wilson. Often, if you have a .procmailrc file in your home directory, your MTA will automatically use procmail. It's kinda like magic. And if none of your procmail rules match a particular email, it will probably get automatically delivered to /var/mail/wilson. Hope this helps... Dan -- | 4699 BDCB B1A5 28B6 7F8A F8DF EB6A BC2A B0A1 99BF (GPG) | Dan Drake | http://lemongecko.org/drake/ | public key: email -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020115/4191eaba/attachment.pgp From blayer at qwest.net Tue Jan 15 23:45:28 2002 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet unsafe? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.19980101002117.009eae80@pop.mpls.qwest.net> At 05:27 AM 1/15/02 -0800, you wrote: >I was told on this list that telnet is quite unsafe and provides serious >security loopholes (at least on Linux boxes). What if telnet is used >behind a firewall? That should be safe right? What if the telnet port >(23) is exposed to the outside wall via a firewall? Is that still unsafe? Telnet is not so much 'unsafe' as it is a totally unsecured service. the Telnetd itself doesn't pose any issues that I know of, but it's service might.. Telnet sends all communication in plaintext, so when you telnet to a remote box, someone snooping in the middle can read anything.. passwords, mail, data etc. Even if you log in as a normal user, then 'su' to root, the root password is sent in plaintext. You can see the issues; telnet was never intended to be secure. It's even bad practice to use telnet on your local network.. assume an intruder has managed to gain access to one of your boxes. Now, they can sniff away as you send passwords & data about in plaintext. You will make their job (of gaining access on more of your machines) much easier. This is why we have SSH.. it's free, more functional and quite secure. Telnet is antiquated, and it is simply bad practice. Don't use it unless the network is totally isolated from the Internet. Even then, SSH is still free :) -Bill From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 16 01:18:00 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need usb ethernet adapter Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA002E0D33B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I have a 3com 3c460B USB ethernet adapter that I'd like to trade for one of the following: 3com 3C460A 3com 3C19250 3com 3C83510P-01 The above 3 are 10Mbps only. The one I have is an autosensing 10/100. I mistakenly bought the 3c460B instead of the "A", and it won't work for what I need it for. Mine is brand new and works great. Willing to trade even up, and I'll buy a beer or two at the next beer meeting for whoever has a trade. :) I actually need 3 of the above adapters, so if someone would rather sell than trade, I'm all up for it. Thanks. Jay From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jan 16 01:55:19 2002 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c In-Reply-To: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> References: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> Message-ID: <20020115085629.5635a82c.hick0088@tc.umn.edu> "Michael Glaser" wrote: > > Has anyone done it? If so, where can I find the software to install it? I have > heard of Yellow Dog Linux, but it looks like it does not run on this model. Looks like that machine is a NuBus box, so your best bet would be MkLinux (the 'Mk' is for microkernel, as it's a variant of Linux that runs on top of the Mach microkernel). Sounds like some people have had luck with it, but http://lppcfom.sourceforge.net/fom-serve/cache/350.html http://www.mklinux.org/ -- _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ ___ _ _ __ If you were going to shoot / \/ \(_)| ' // ._\ / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__ a mime, would you use a \_||_/|_||_|_\\___/ \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) silencer? [ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020116/92373364/attachment.pgp From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 02:29:23 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020115104820.GA28799@fandre.com> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <20020115000629.I4915@real-time.com> <20020115104820.GA28799@fandre.com> Message-ID: <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Clay I'll play devils advocate here for the moment. As powerful as the command-line is, very few people unfamiliar with it would use it to actually burn a video encoded dvd. Especially a video editor. Most are not geeks, their artists in need of an easy to use software tool. I could be wrong, but I bet the things your doing on the command-line can and are reproduced in a gui. They may not exist in Linux now, but they are available in Mac or Windows. I work as a Broadcast Engineer at the O&O Fox-29 in Minneapolis. Video editing software on Mac/Windows is literally years ahead in development compared to Linux. I'm not trying to bash Linux here, but I would simply ask why? Video editing on the desktop could have been a "killer app" for Linux, but it completely missed the boat. I hope it will catch up to competitors soon. You are certainly right about newbies not knowing the potencial of Linux. But they expect (demand) a gui interface not the command-line. Having said all that, I would love to see a demo sometime. On Tuesday 15 January 2002 4:48 am, you wrote: > Yea, you're probably right. This is the kind of stuff that really shows the > power of Linux/UNIX and the command-line. Some of the stuff I'm doing would > be difficult/impossible to do in a GUI. And since a lot of it is > bleading-edge and just-recently developed, most of it isn't documented yet. > Makes it really hard for newcomers to realize the capabilities and the > potential of Linux. > > I will try and schedule this topic for a future meeting. > > -- Clay From mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com Wed Jan 16 02:32:02 2002 From: mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com (Michael J Flaherty) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c In-Reply-To: <3C42C765.15068.DA2828@localhost> Message-ID: on 1/14/02 11:56 AM, Michael Glaser at mglaser@umn.edu wrote: > Has anyone done it? If so, where can I find the software to install it? I have > heard of Yellow Dog Linux, but it looks like it does not run on this model. > MKLinux is probably the only option for that machine. Not nearly so well regarded as YellowDog or LinuxPPC, but it's something. > I have access to an Apple PowerBook 1400c laptop that currently has Mac OS 9 > on The machine would also be speeded up dramatically by ditching OS 9 and installing OS 8.1. 8.5 and .6 aren't much faster than 9. 8.1 is the the right combination of lightweight/fast and compatable with newer software for that machine. From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 02:56:52 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011104649.3079.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> References: <1011104649.3079.0.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> Message-ID: <20020115160202.GA557@rephil.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 08:24:04AM -0600, Dave Sherman wrote: > Unless you are planning on hosting a lot of domains and you need a lot > of configurability, I would advise letting someone else do your DNS. > When you register a domain with Verio (and other companies) they will do > your DNS for free, even if you don't host your site with them. That's > what I did with my wife's domain. On our LAN, we have a Linux server > doing DNS, but it is only local, providing the non-routing addresses we > use internally. See also http://soa.granitecanyon.com but don't expect that to teach you everything you need to know (if you're new to DNS.) On the other hand, I was able to get mine working, and still don't know everything I need to know. ;) -- "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From pcdoc at ftp2.snapreporter.com Wed Jan 16 03:22:08 2002 From: pcdoc at ftp2.snapreporter.com (jwznk) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lotus Domino For Linux In-Reply-To: <003a01c19dd5$933c4500$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: Greetings everyone! Has anyone installed Lotus Domino server for Linux? I'm having trouble getting it to run under RH 7.1. I'm thinking it has too new of C++ libs or something. Any help would be great, thanks! -Joe Wozniak pcdoc@snapreporter.com From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 16 03:40:49 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Well worded slam on Microsoft Message-ID: <20020116032013.I31689@real-time.com> http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0201.html Honestly, security experts don't pick on Microsoft because we have some fundamental dislike for the company. Indeed, Microsoft's poor products are one of the reasons we're in business. We pick on them because they've done more to harm Internet security than anyone else, because they repeatedly lie to the public about their products' security, and because they do everything they can to convince people that the problems lie anywhere but inside Microsoft. Microsoft treats security vulnerabilities as public relations problems. Until that changes, expect more of this kind of nonsense from Microsoft and its products. (Note to Gartner: The vulnerabilities will come, a couple of them a week, for years and years...until people stop looking for them. Waiting six months isn't going to make this OS safer.) AMEN! -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jan 16 05:27:03 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Siemens Speedstream NIC and Cable Modem questions In-Reply-To: <3C407DB2.7070600@ringworld.org>; from kbullock@ringworld.org on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:17:22PM -0600 References: <3C407DB2.7070600@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020116050731.G25681@techmonkeys.org> > > You just need an ethernet card (that connects by twisted pair, i.e. > RJ-45 connectors and Cat-[35] cable). I'm not sure if the cable modem > will go 100Mbps, but it wouldn't hurt to have 100Mb card in there. > Basically any NIC will work. > Most cable modems (notably, the ones AT&T passes out) only link at 10mbit, this is not a problem as AT&T has a downstream rate limit of 1.5Mbit and an upstream rate limit of .3Mbit CAT5 is recommended, AT&T will give you a piece with the modem =) [shameless plug] Not sure if I mentioned it yet, but a friend and I run a website dedicated to broadband internet access in minnesota, we're collecting information at this point as well as working on an in-house outage monitoring tool. Anyone interested can get more information at http://www.mnbroadband.org Discussion ranges from cable modem internals to venting about poor technical support from The Canadians(R). [/shameless plug] > > -- > Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa > Kevin R. Bullock > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jan 16 05:45:04 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video Editing In-Reply-To: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A285@MAIL4.corp.isib.net>; from John.Miller@rbcdain.com on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 07:59:14AM -0600 References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A285@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> Message-ID: <20020116052005.H25681@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 07:59:14AM -0600, Miller, John wrote: > Has anyone done any video editing with their Linux machine. I am looking to build a new machine and am looking for pointers on components, mainly the video card. I would like video in and video out so I can transfer video tape to the computer. I am also thinking of taking some of the videos and making DVD's out of them. > I've done plenty of video capture with my primary system[1], I use avifile for capture/encoding and if needed can dump it back out via S-Video[2] I can do real-time divx encoding, 30fps 640x480 'good quality' with no problems. I use this for recording star trek episodes and storing them on CD =P The video card itself isn't really important for video editing, get a bt848 based TV card with the inputs that you need, for output you can use S-Video, or simply burn SVCD's that will play in any DVD player (standard CD-R disk). [1] PC Chips M830 SiS735 chipset (it's the ECS K7S5A) 512M DDR, 110G disk space (ATA100 IDE) SCSI CD-RW, WinTV (bt848) TV card with RCA & standard coax cable input, 1.3GHz Athlon "c" core [2] I've got a Sigma Designs Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card that just happens to have better S-Video output quality than my Voodoo3 so I use it instead. > The components that I am thinking about so far are > AMD XP 1800 or 1900 > Elitegroups ESC K7S5A with the SIS735 chipset. Tomshardware gave it a good review. > 512 MB DDR > 36 GB SCSI Ultra 160 Drive > SCSI DVD-Ram and CD-RW (2 components) > The memory and fast/large disk are important, I'm holding out for full capacity DVD writers before investing. > All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. > > John Miller -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org Wed Jan 16 06:52:20 2002 From: cfandre at maddog.mn-linux.org (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <20020115000629.I4915@real-time.com> <20020115104820.GA28799@fandre.com> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020116124235.GA20623@fandre.com> Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Linux has more powerful video tools than Windows (or Mac) because it doesn't. But it is developing rapidly and it's only a matter of time before the tools are just as good as anything else out there. (if not better) But for some of the more bizarre things I'm doing it is probably easier to do it via the CLI than via a GUI. (for me anyway) Just like it is easier to do filesystem changes via a command-line than it is to do via a GUI file-manager. (It's tought scripting a GUI.) But you are right, it all depends on your level of experience. Once the underlying libraries are stable, it will only be a matter of time before the GUI apps start to appear. Once that happens, watch out. One thing that I have gotten out of using the Linux command-line tools is knowledge of the video technology. I've learned a lot about different video formats, audio formats, framerates, compressions, conversions, etc. Things I would never have even thought about using a GUI. For some a GUI app is a blessing. For me, it's a roadblock. -- Clay On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > Clay I'll play devils advocate here for the moment. As powerful as the > command-line is, very few people unfamiliar with it would use it to actually > burn a video encoded dvd. Especially a video editor. Most are not geeks, > their artists in need of an easy to use software tool. I could be wrong, but > I bet the things your doing on the command-line can and are reproduced in a > gui. They may not exist in Linux now, but they are available in Mac or > Windows. I work as a Broadcast Engineer at the O&O Fox-29 in Minneapolis. > Video editing software on Mac/Windows is literally years ahead in development > compared to Linux. I'm not trying to bash Linux here, but I would simply ask > why? Video editing on the desktop could have been a "killer app" for Linux, > but it completely missed the boat. I hope it will catch up to competitors > soon. You are certainly right about newbies not knowing the potencial of > Linux. But they expect (demand) a gui interface not the command-line. > > Having said all that, I would love to see a demo sometime. > > On Tuesday 15 January 2002 4:48 am, you wrote: > > > > Yea, you're probably right. This is the kind of stuff that really shows the > > power of Linux/UNIX and the command-line. Some of the stuff I'm doing would > > be difficult/impossible to do in a GUI. And since a lot of it is > > bleading-edge and just-recently developed, most of it isn't documented yet. > > Makes it really hard for newcomers to realize the capabilities and the > > potential of Linux. > > > > I will try and schedule this topic for a future meeting. > > > > -- Clay > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dsherman at real-time.com Wed Jan 16 07:17:45 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Telnet unsafe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1011113348.3004.2.camel@dedannshae.thuria.org> On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 07:27, Jimmy Jam wrote: > I was told on this list that telnet is quite unsafe and provides serious security loopholes (at least on Linux boxes). What if telnet is used behind a firewall? That should be safe right? What if the telnet port (23) is exposed to the outside wall via a firewall? Is that still unsafe? > > Regards The reason telnet is insecure is because it passes your user name and password in plain text across the network. If you are using telnet only within your local network, then it is safe enough as long as noone can sniff your local network. But if you are using telnet across your firewall, then your user name and password is easily readable to anyone on the Internet (sitting between you and the server you are accessing) with a sniffer. And if people are using telnet to get into your server, then your system is immediately susceptible. You should use ssh, which provides secure versions of telnet, ftp, and rcp. Ssh is easy to set up, and there are both commercial and free Windows clients available (check Tera Term with the ssh plugin). As others have noted, using your server to host domains probably breaks your service agreement. Also, it is likely that your ISP is blocking ports to prevent abuse of their system, and to slow the spread of Nimda/Code Red. In other words, you may not be able to host any websites, because port 80 (www) is blocked. Dave Sherman -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jan 16 08:24:57 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:36:51PM -0600 References: <20020115082553.A9378@slava.net> <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020116080701.B2541@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:36:51PM -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote: > The term "server" is ambiguous. I'm sure that they're not going to try > to prevent me from running, say, fetchmail. But an Apache server, > sure. Of course they won't object to fetchmail - it initiates outgoing connections, so few people would consider it a server/service in the first place. Apache, OTOH, accepts incoming connections, as do DNS and SMTP servers, which, IIRC, are what this thread was originally asking about. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From leif at mn.rr.com Wed Jan 16 09:05:19 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.31 .255.255 I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 08:25, Lorry Lee Strother wrote: > To my knowledge a cable modem has nothing to do with DSL, but if you have > a cable connection like I do, your provider probably doesn't allow you to run > a server without some fancy expensive package, and if you got the fancy > expensive package they'd probably tell you how to do it (just guessing on that > one). I got a letter from Time Warner about how we aren't allowed to have > servers. Several people have mentioned if you're not planning on it having any > real traffic, they'll never notice, but what can I say... I'm a rule-follower. > The term "server" is ambiguous. I'm sure that they're not going to try to prevent me from running, say, fetchmail. But an Apache server, sure. From dieman+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jan 16 09:08:29 2002 From: dieman+tclug at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Microsoft attacks embedded Linux In-Reply-To: <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> References: <200201150414.g0F4E9b08790@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020116084610.I13026@ringworld.org> * Kevin Bullock [020115 20:48]: > More Microsoft FUD. The basic content is, "Embedded Linux isn't viable > because it doesn't support our proprietary protocols, even though it Read-as: We really dont like the existance of jCIFS and Samba. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ the desire for space travel is a metaphor for escape From Ben at Workscited.Net Wed Jan 16 09:21:04 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SiS 7018 sound card In-Reply-To: <3C3E11C4.38F2AE6C@citilink.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <3C3E11C4.38F2AE6C@citilink.com> Message-ID: <200201161450.g0GEoV507800@sprite.real-time.com> Hello again, folks. Here I am with another remedial question... My machine has sound built into the motherboard with the SiS 7018 chipset. Windows 98 required a special driver (provided with the motherboard) before it would recognize the chip, but Mandrake 8.1 recognized it right away. Unfortunately it doesn't work. I found a tip online where someone said to use the command "modprobe trident" to configure the thing, but when I try it I get the following: /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: init_module: No such device Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including invalid IO or IRQ parameters /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz failed /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod trident failed I'm afraid I need more of a "hint" than that. Suggestions? --Ben From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 09:42:14 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020116124235.GA20623@fandre.com> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116124235.GA20623@fandre.com> Message-ID: <200201161527.g0GFRab29006@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 6:42 am, you wrote: > One thing that I have gotten out of using the Linux command-line tools is > knowledge of the video technology. I've learned a lot about different video > formats, audio formats, framerates, compressions, conversions, etc. Things > I would never have even thought about using a GUI. For some a GUI app is a > blessing. For me, it's a roadblock. > > -- Clay We're in agreement. Clay, could you post a few of the online links you use for Linux related video editing and so forth. I would be very interested in checking out the capabilities at this point. Thanks... From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 16 09:45:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SiS 7018 sound card In-Reply-To: <200201161450.g0GEoV507800@sprite.real-time.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <3C3E11C4.38F2AE6C@citilink.com> <200201161450.g0GEoV507800@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1011194962.24213.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 08:50, Ben Stallings wrote: > Hello again, folks. Here I am with another remedial question... > > My machine has sound built into the motherboard with the SiS 7018 chipset. > Windows 98 required a special driver (provided with the motherboard) before > it would recognize the chip, but Mandrake 8.1 recognized it right away. > Unfortunately it doesn't work. I found a tip online where someone said to > use the command "modprobe trident" to configure the thing, but when I try it > I get the following: > > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: init_module: No > such device > Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including > invalid IO or IRQ parameters > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz failed > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod trident > failed > > I'm afraid I need more of a "hint" than that. Suggestions? --Ben > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > My own limited experience with Linux and outre hardware suggests that the best and cheapest course is, generally, to just buy a standard part. (My wife's machine, for example, recognizes its old NE2000 compatible NIC card under Windows, but not under Mandrake -- so we picked up a cheap Intel card. This would have been a smarter move if I'd just done it in the first place, rather then spending hours and hours trying to get the old card to work.) -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jan 16 09:47:25 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Microsoft attacks embedded Linux In-Reply-To: <20020116084610.I13026@ringworld.org> References: <200201150414.g0F4E9b08790@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> <20020116084610.I13026@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1011195005.11430.7.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 08:46, Scott Dier wrote: > * Kevin Bullock [020115 20:48]: > > More Microsoft FUD. The basic content is, "Embedded Linux isn't viable > > because it doesn't support our proprietary protocols, even though it To a certain extent that's true, but they could have worded it in a much more classy way. > > Read-as: We really dont like the existance of jCIFS and Samba. Well duh :-) Intel doesn't like AMD either. And they'd like them even less if they gave their chips away. -- Ben Lutgens Sistina Software Inc. Kernel panic: I have no root and I want to scream -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020116/2a5a93d8/attachment.pgp From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 10:07:59 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201161541.g0GFfLb04808@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 8:42 am, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running > Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.3 >1 .255.255 > > I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. > To add more controversy: "Im sure as a good portion of you know RR cable service along with just about every other broadband service provider blocked http traffic back to clients due to the nimda virus etc. well, after trying to run it on about 10 other ports i decided... what about virtual ports? got it running way up high... specifically 65500 was the lucky pick... used mydomain.com to do a web forward to it so you dont have to mess with punching in the port " ....and: "I am running a webserver at port 8080 with Road Runner and it works fine. Actually, I run 4 sites currently on this server. All have a forwarder as well so no adding the port to the end." My response: These are two anonymous posts on one forum I visit. I also use roadrunner cable service, but I pay quite a bit for my connection and don't really appreciate people hosting sites in my neighborhood sucking up bandwidth. I might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! Hows that settle in your gullet? One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 16 10:29:21 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Microsoft attacks embedded Linux In-Reply-To: <20020116084610.I13026@ringworld.org> References: <200201150414.g0F4E9b08790@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <3C44E5D4.9000208@ringworld.org> <20020116084610.I13026@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1011194822.23220.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 08:46, Scott Dier wrote: > * Kevin Bullock [020115 20:48]: > > More Microsoft FUD. The basic content is, "Embedded Linux isn't viable > > because it doesn't support our proprietary protocols, even though it > > Read-as: We really dont like the existance of jCIFS and Samba. > > -- > This is probably the least sensible FUD they've tried. The folks who manufacture hardware have the time and expertise to look into OS issues thoroughly. It's too bad about the implosion of BSD when it was taken over by Wind River, as it looked like they were ready to roll out an embedded BSD box that, basically, was going to be the Swiss Army Knife. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jan 16 10:44:03 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SiS 7018 sound card In-Reply-To: <200201161450.g0GEoV507800@sprite.real-time.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <3C3E11C4.38F2AE6C@citilink.com> <200201161450.g0GEoV507800@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020116161334.44CE828EC7@thursday.freeze.com> I am not sure about the 7018, but I know the 7012 has drivers that are only availible with the paid version of OSS. What MoBo is that on? Jay On Wednesday 16 January 2002 08:50 am, you wrote: > Hello again, folks. Here I am with another remedial question... > > My machine has sound built into the motherboard with the SiS 7018 chipset. > Windows 98 required a special driver (provided with the motherboard) before > it would recognize the chip, but Mandrake 8.1 recognized it right away. > Unfortunately it doesn't work. I found a tip online where someone said to > use the command "modprobe trident" to configure the thing, but when I try > it I get the following: > > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: init_module: No > such device > Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including > invalid IO or IRQ parameters > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz failed > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod trident > failed > > I'm afraid I need more of a "hint" than that. Suggestions? --Ben > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 11:23:27 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) In-Reply-To: <003f01c19e2d$656acea0$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <20020113125324.64.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <077163704140e12FE3@mail3.mn.rr.com> <20020114150158.GA8684@rephil.org> <02011506171600.00371@edith> <003f01c19e2d$656acea0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <20020116170726.GA8036@rephil.org> On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 07:30:29PM -0600, Mark Browne wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Black" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:17 AM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Static electricity (and an offer to buy) > > > Cant speak to the U of M's setup, but at UND they just lined the whole room > with fine wire mesh. I was referring to the building with the copper panels for the exterior. I figure it's not that aesthetically interesting, so it must be functional, and can't think of any other reason to line the outside of a building with copper than to shield the inside. (Or shield us from what is inside?!) Just being silly. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Jan 16 11:28:54 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question Message-ID: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net> I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like to hook it into a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an xterm and thus no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I just buy two access points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest of my network into the other and the access points will talk? Or do I need some other kind of hardware, like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? Thanks. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Jan 16 11:31:18 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! Message-ID: Interesting. Not what I would expect, though. Support for the web as a read only service, and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). I want customers like you! ;-) >>> rahrenstorff@mediaone.net 01/15/02 09:41PM >>> > I might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! > Hows that settle in your gullet? > One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 11:33:53 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:42:58AM -0600, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running > Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.31 > .255.255 > > I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. Right, but this doesn't mean that the ISPs don't have the right to not only shut down those ports, but they could turn off the offenders' cable modem service -- ***if _they_ choose***. So do it or not, as your conscience permits, but you don't get to complain if they make it go away. It's like speeding -- there are lots of people driving 80 mph, but if they have to pay a big fine or hospital bill as a direct result, there's no sympathy for complainers. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From kbullock at ringworld.org Wed Jan 16 11:49:51 2002 From: kbullock at ringworld.org (Kevin Bullock) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux References: <020115204848.23607d71@dcmir.med.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3C45B4CF.1060908@ringworld.org> Two responses follow. HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > OK, if you're in one of those moods, I found this somewhat > distasteful, if not all that surprising. > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2102244,00.html Distasteful, unethical, should be illegal if it isn't already, ... there just aren't enough words for it. I want to take a baseball bat to their vote-rigging script servers. And all their other machines, for that matter. Paul Overby wrote: > SORRY!. The first link sets the context for the second story which is > clearly hype not really based on any apparent facts or research. > My Text was indedd poorly worded. I apologize for the tone of my response, it probably sounded much less friendly than it was intended. Thanks for posting the links. Though for some reason I still can't reach linuxppc.org... -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock From jts at tc.umn.edu Wed Jan 16 11:52:45 2002 From: jts at tc.umn.edu (Joel T Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <200201161650.g0GGoP509905@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 Jimmy Jam wrote: > I have a DSL Internet connection via cable modem. How can I run a DNS > server on my Linux machine that will replicate itself from the DNS of my > ISP and be contactable by other DNS servers? In other words, how can I > directly host websites on my machines which will be contactable from > outside? DNS is a fairly big topic. In order to be recognized as nameserver for a domain, your machine would have to be recognized by the DNS hierarchy as being authoritative for that domain. You might also need to set up a secondary domain name server. Your ISP may be willing to provide a secondary/slave name server for your domains. Some DNS resources: http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/DNS-HOWTO.html http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dns4/ Joel From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 12:12:22 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:14:55AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Interesting. > > Not what I would expect, though. > > Support for the web as a read only service, > and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). > > I want customers like you! ;-) All trolls aside, here's a (very) idealistic Linux scenario: Assume momentarily that the reason for limiting services is not just bandwidth, but security and ISPs wanting to limit their liability for millions of M$ users having vulnerable boxes open to the world, how about the following policy: "No servers, HTTP, FTP, yada, yada, will be allowed *except* those that run on a demonstrably secure platform." -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Jan 16 12:14:50 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! Message-ID: Note that I am not a cable modem customer because of these policies. If I get high speed access at all, it will be with the freedom to do as I please with the bandwidth provided (within reason, i.e. no illegal activity). >>> troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us 01/16/02 11:14AM >>> Interesting. Not what I would expect, though. Support for the web as a read only service, and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). I want customers like you! ;-) >>> rahrenstorff@mediaone.net 01/15/02 09:41PM >>> > I might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! > Hows that settle in your gullet? > One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 16 12:17:22 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 11:20, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:42:58AM -0600, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > > > If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running > > Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: > > > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.31 > > .255.255 > > > > I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. > > Right, but this doesn't mean that the ISPs don't have the right to not > only shut down those ports, but they could turn off the offenders' > cable modem service -- ***if _they_ choose***. So do it or not, as your > conscience permits, but you don't get to complain if they make it go > away. > > It's like speeding -- there are lots of people driving 80 mph, but if > they have to pay a big fine or hospital bill as a direct result, > there's no sympathy for complainers. > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, and that's apparently not happening. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From Ben at Workscited.Net Wed Jan 16 12:28:50 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SiS 7018 sound card In-Reply-To: <20020116161334.44CE828EC7@thursday.freeze.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <200201161450.g0GEoV507800@sprite.real-time.com> <20020116161334.44CE828EC7@thursday.freeze.com> Message-ID: <200201161752.g0GHqI510957@sprite.real-time.com> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 10:13, Jay Kline wrote: > I am not sure about the 7018, but I know the 7012 has drivers that are only > availible with the paid version of OSS. What MoBo is that on? Hm... the manufacturer didn't exactly splash their name around. Near as I can tell from the manual, it's a PC266 SystemBoard M810 series, Socket A. What's OSS? --Ben From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Wed Jan 16 13:16:01 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) Message-ID: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> I use AT&T broadband and there is nothing in the subscriber agreement that says I agree not to set up a sever of any kind. What it says is: AT&T broadband will provide customer with dynamic IP connection(s) as a coponent of the service. ... Customer agrees not to use dynamic DNS to associate a hostname with such dynamic IP connection(s) for any commerical purposes. Other services may differ of course. "commercial" always seems open to interpretation. Interestingly, It also does not seem to prohibit me from setting up a sever for commercial purposes as long as I do not provide a dynamic DNS Link to it. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 16 13:29:41 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> References: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020116185241.GD1226@iucha.net> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:46:48AM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:14:55AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > Interesting. > > > > Not what I would expect, though. > > > > Support for the web as a read only service, > > and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). > > > > I want customers like you! ;-) > > All trolls aside, here's a (very) idealistic Linux scenario: > > Assume momentarily that the reason for limiting services is not just > bandwidth, but security and ISPs wanting to limit their liability for > millions of M$ users having vulnerable boxes open to the world, how > about the following policy: > > "No servers, HTTP, FTP, yada, yada, will be allowed *except* those > that run on a demonstrably secure platform." Security is a process, not a product. There is no demonstrably secure platform, except one that is unplugged and locked into a safe 10k feet under the sea. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020116/390d241f/attachment.pgp From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 15:21:06 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116185241.GD1226@iucha.net> References: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> <20020116185241.GD1226@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020116205256.GB9020@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:52:41PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > There is no demonstrably secure platform, except one that is unplugged > and locked into a safe 10k feet under the sea. No, there are (few) others. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 16 15:30:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question In-Reply-To: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net>; from jpschewe@mtu.net on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:14:31PM -0500 References: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net> Message-ID: <20020116151516.P21131@real-time.com> Quoting Jon Schewe (jpschewe@mtu.net): > I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like to hook it into > a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an xterm and thus > no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I just buy two access > points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest of my network into the other > and the access points will talk? Or do I need some other kind of hardware, > like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter > (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? Linux, 2 NIC cards. 1 card wire LAN, other card wireless LAN. Plug the xterminal into the linux box wire LAN and use the linux box as a router? -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From drew at usfamily.net Wed Jan 16 15:35:28 2002 From: drew at usfamily.net (Andrew Nemchenko) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quick question References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C45ED07.38BC32DD@usfamily.net> There is an application that I want to start every time that the system is rebooted, what would be the best way to launch that application? ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jan 16 15:43:49 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:47:58AM -0600 References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020116151204.N21131@real-time.com> Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, > and that's apparently not happening. AS and ISP I disagree. 2 words for you. CodRed Nimda These things cause all sorts of "traffic accidents" on networks. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 16 16:04:05 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quick question In-Reply-To: <3C45ED07.38BC32DD@usfamily.net> References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <3C45ED07.38BC32DD@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <1011217785.29669.0.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 15:13, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > There is an application that I want to start every time that the system is > rebooted, what would be the best way to launch that application? to execute foo foo.bar, say add foo foo.bar & to /etc/rc.local I'm not sure, but the & may be optional. > > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 16 16:29:30 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question -- and a postfix question... In-Reply-To: <20020116151204.N21131@real-time.com> References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116151204.N21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1011218693.30402.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 15:12, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a > > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, > > and that's apparently not happening. > > AS and ISP I disagree. > > 2 words for you. > > CodRed > Nimda > > These things cause all sorts of "traffic accidents" on networks. > > A fair enough cop, perhaps, but I think I was talking about servers being run as, well, servers, rather than as part of a network attack. By that standard, pretty much any station that can generate packets is a potential danger. Quick question: I'm using postfix for local mail delivery -- running fetchmail to pick up popmail from various servers. Is there any quick and easy way I can restrict postfix access to IP addresses of 192.168.0.n? ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 17:13:08 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <02011616400900.16172@edith> Yeah AT&T. Good tech support as well. I think all the cable bashing has been about RR.com to date though. Kelly Black KB0GBJ Plugging a non-commercial website here: http://fork.ods.org:8079 That is running because they let me... On Wednesday 16 January 2002 13:03, you wrote: > I use AT&T broadband and there is nothing in the subscriber agreement that > says I agree not to set up a sever of any kind. What it says is: > > AT&T broadband will provide customer with dynamic IP connection(s) as a > coponent of the service. ... Customer agrees not to use dynamic DNS to > associate a hostname with such dynamic IP connection(s) for any commerical > purposes. > > Other services may differ of course. > "commercial" always seems open to interpretation. > > Interestingly, It also does not seem to prohibit me from setting up a > sever for commercial purposes as long as I do not provide a dynamic DNS > Link to it. From wilson at visi.com Wed Jan 16 17:15:37 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quick question In-Reply-To: <3C45ED07.38BC32DD@usfamily.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Andrew Nemchenko wrote: > There is an application that I want to start every time that the system is > rebooted, what would be the best way to launch that application? Depends which distro you're using, but probably the simplest way is to add the command to start the application to an 'rc.local' file that lives somewhere in /etc/rc.d/. Debian may use rc.boot for the same purpose, but I don't know off the top of my head. The more robust method (and I think the preferred one in general) is to create a start/stop script in /etc/init.d/. (I think RedHat uses /etc/rc.d/init.d/) -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From florin at iucha.net Wed Jan 16 17:31:37 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116205256.GB9020@rephil.org> References: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> <20020116185241.GD1226@iucha.net> <20020116205256.GB9020@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020116225852.GE1226@iucha.net> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:52:56PM -0600, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:52:41PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > There is no demonstrably secure platform, except one that is unplugged > > and locked into a safe 10k feet under the sea. > > No, there are (few) others. And how many of those are installed/maintained by home users with the purpose of handling granma's e-mail and children's photo album? florin PS: I would be willing to argue that uncrackability of a system is undecidable, but I will let that for a beer-meeting. PS/2: A more secure system is more inconvenient for authorized users to accessi and use. So a perfectly secure system is one that doesn't allow any users to do anything. At that point you might as well unplug it an put it on the bottom of the ocean... -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020116/b43bb870/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 16 18:10:49 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question -- and a postfix question... Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00351498A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Check out mynetworks= in your /etc/postfix/main.cf Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Rosenberg [mailto:joelr@ellegon.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:05 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DNS Question -- and a postfix question... > > > On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 15:12, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > > > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks > would have to run a > > > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else > even a little, > > > and that's apparently not happening. > > > > AS and ISP I disagree. > > > > 2 words for you. > > > > CodRed > > Nimda > > > > These things cause all sorts of "traffic accidents" on networks. > > > > > > A fair enough cop, perhaps, but I think I was talking about servers > being run as, well, servers, rather than as part of a network attack. > By that standard, pretty much any station that can generate > packets is a > potential danger. > > Quick question: I'm using postfix for local mail delivery -- running > fetchmail to pick up popmail from various servers. Is there any quick > and easy way I can restrict postfix access to IP addresses of > 192.168.0.n? > > ------------------------------------- > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. > ------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 18:13:12 2002 From: dwmosman at mn.mediaone.net (Douglas Mosman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! References: <200201161541.g0GFfLb04808@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C45BAAE.E1903BDD@mn.mediaone.net> Hmmm In my neighborhood (ex RR, now ATT) web servers are not specifically excluded by the TOS, although port 80 might be. At least according to the ATnT CSR. Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 8:42 am, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > > If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running > > Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: > > > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.3 > >1 .255.255 > > > > I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. > > > To add more controversy: > > "Im sure as a good portion of you know RR cable service along with just about > every other broadband service provider blocked http traffic back to clients > due to the nimda virus etc. > > well, after trying to run it on about 10 other ports i decided... what about > virtual ports? > > got it running way up high... specifically 65500 was the lucky pick... used > mydomain.com to do a web forward to it so you dont have to mess with punching > in the port " > > ....and: > > "I am running a webserver at port 8080 with Road Runner and it works fine. > Actually, I run 4 sites currently on this server. All have a forwarder as > well so no adding the port to the end." > > My response: > > These are two anonymous posts on one forum I visit. I also use roadrunner > cable service, but I pay quite a bit for my connection and don't really > appreciate people hosting sites in my neighborhood sucking up bandwidth. I > might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! Hows that settle > in your gullet? One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 18:15:36 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <20020115000629.I4915@real-time.com> <20020115104820.GA28799@fandre.com> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 09:12:56PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > I work as a Broadcast Engineer at the O&O Fox-29 in Minneapolis. > Video editing software on Mac/Windows is literally years ahead in > development compared to Linux. I'm not trying to bash Linux here, > but I would simply ask why? Video editing on the desktop could have > been a "killer app" for Linux, but it completely missed the boat. As a Broadcast Engineer, unless you're really green, you should be aware that this is comparing apples to oranges. Digital video editing started back in the late 70's and early 80's (notably with LucasFilm's SoundDroid and VideoDroid projects, under Andy Moorer who spun off to become Sonic Solutions when Lucas backed out.) Linux didn't even exist then. It wasn't until '94 or '95 that digital video even began to encroach on broadcast and professional editing suites -- led by Avid, mostly. Even the million dollar editors weren't as functional as a 2" online-editing room. They didn't develop for Linux at that time, because the tools they needed were more readily available elsewhere (Mac). If you're talking about Linux not leading the way with the tools trickling down to the semi-pro / consumer level, well, it's usually the original platform or a close cousin that gets to lead the way. This is one of the downsides of the earlier days of Linux as a DIY hacker project -- it didn't have it's foot in very many doors that weren't dorm rooms or CSCI geeks'/depts. These days, Linux *is* considered as a place to start, but you have to look harder to find an open field to plow. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 19:48:15 2002 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RF and Static and pretty cases and beer Message-ID: <20020116155401.27791.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> From jondavid at mn.rr.com Wed Jan 16 20:15:38 2002 From: jondavid at mn.rr.com (jds) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux In-Reply-To: <3C45B4CF.1060908@ringworld.org> Message-ID: my2cents: One can't really regulate a poll that isn't sanctioned by any official regulatory body. If the offending parties went out and bought a crapload of stock and made a ton of money because somehow ZDnet boosted the stock price of microsoft because of the sudden dominance of .NET as a result of this ZDnet poll, then you could fine them and they'd maybe visit a cushy minimum security setup for a few months. Or probably not. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Anyway, it was only a ZDnet UK poll. I had a conversation with a microsft net admin who pointed out that the language seemed to convey more about ZDnet's feelings after having it's poll screwed with than being any kind of accurate portrayal of market share. I agree with him. And would the poll have been considered anything more than a vauge commentary (certainly not solid market data) even if microsoft hadn't gone ahead and embarassed themselves so totally? While i respect people's reactions to microsoft's deplorable behavior...after some reflection, i encourage you to ask yourself this: did any of us (open source minded) individuals expect anything other than this kind of childish, uncreative, script kiddy crap from microsoft? I certainly didn't. Does anyone doubt the future dominance of open source? A good friend of mine who shall remain nameless but worked for microsoft back in the day....he took a .NET class and wound up with a fairly thrashed 2k notebook that hasn't been the same since. Interestingly enough, he simultaneously developed a definite taste for Linux. I, for one, have to work on 2k right now because i'm not confident enough of my *nix abilities to use it professionally, but I'm working on getting more proficient. To me, the good news is, that no matter what your operating system, you can always choose to work with and try to help further the development of open source technologies. Cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Kevin Bullock Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:14 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Microsoft attacks embedded Linux Two responses follow. HOEFFNER@dcmir.med.umn.edu wrote: > OK, if you're in one of those moods, I found this somewhat > distasteful, if not all that surprising. > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2102244,00.html Distasteful, unethical, should be illegal if it isn't already, ... there just aren't enough words for it. I want to take a baseball bat to their vote-rigging script servers. And all their other machines, for that matter. Paul Overby wrote: > SORRY!. The first link sets the context for the second story which is > clearly hype not really based on any apparent facts or research. > My Text was indedd poorly worded. I apologize for the tone of my response, it probably sounded much less friendly than it was intended. Thanks for posting the links. Though for some reason I still can't reach linuxppc.org... -- Pacem in terris / Mir / Shanti / Salaam / Heiwa Kevin R. Bullock _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jan 16 20:42:02 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:47:58AM -0600 References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020116202322.K25681@techmonkeys.org> > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, > and that's apparently not happening. That's untrue, 2 or 3 people can easily kill the upstream, and thus, the downstream on any particular node with sufficient bandwidth use (even on AT&T's rate limited network). Personally I poke around my local node from time to time when I notice congestion and find all the kids running KaZaa or whatever the latest program is, if they're hosting something such as 'American.Pie.2-DVD-rip.avi' i'm very likely to shoot off a mail to AT&T about it, they'll contact the customer and tell them to turn it off or lose the account. File sharing is one thing, pushing out as much data as possible 24/7 is abuse. Personal websites are fine, running a commercial website on your home connection is abuse (and AT&T /will/ disconnect you for it). Just be sensible. -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jan 16 21:13:00 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question In-Reply-To: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Jon Schewe wrote: > I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like to hook > it into a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an > xterm and thus no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I > just buy two access points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest > of my network into the other and the access points will talk? Or do I > need some other kind of hardware, like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter > (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? You can go with two Linksys WAP11's, and one will act as a client to the other access point. Works great. Otherwise, the EC's work fine.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jan 16 21:16:02 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net>; from xpoverby@attbroadband.com on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:03:57PM -0600 References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> Sorry, you're wrong: http://help.broadband.att.com/faq.jsp?content_id=1107&category_id=34&lobid=1 " Prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, using the AT&T Broadband Equipment (as defined in the Subscriber Agreement) or the Service to: [I ... XII] XIII run programs or servers from the Premises which provide network content or any other services to others. Examples of prohibited programs include, but are not limited to, mail, ftp, http, game, newsgroup, proxy, IRC servers and multi-user interactive forums; " Have fun. On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 01:03:57PM -0600, Paul Overby wrote: > I use AT&T broadband and there is nothing in the subscriber agreement that > says I agree not to set up a sever of any kind. What it says is: > > AT&T broadband will provide customer with dynamic IP connection(s) as a > coponent of the service. ... Customer agrees not to use dynamic DNS to > associate a hostname with such dynamic IP connection(s) for any commerical > purposes. > > Other services may differ of course. > "commercial" always seems open to interpretation. > > Interestingly, It also does not seem to prohibit me from setting up a sever > for commercial purposes as long as I do not provide a dynamic DNS Link to it. > > -- > Paul Overby > xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From jack at jacku.com Wed Jan 16 21:18:23 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lotus Domino For Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011621060800.00712@geezer> On Tuesday 15 January 2002 10:15, jwznk wrote: > Greetings everyone! > > Has anyone installed Lotus Domino server for Linux? > I'm having trouble getting it to run under RH 7.1. I'm thinking it has > too new of C++ libs or something. > > Any help would be great, thanks! > > -Joe Wozniak > pcdoc@snapreporter.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I installed it last summer under SuSE 7.2 I don't work for the place I installed it anymore. (It was in a test lab.) I don't remember any glitches. I realize this isn't much help. But at least you know it should work. ;-) If you get no other responses I might have some time to try and do a quick install here at home and see if it works. (This box doesn't have the guts to run the server productivly but should be able to get it going.) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From ming at evil-overlords.com Wed Jan 16 21:20:47 2002 From: ming at evil-overlords.com (ming) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RF and Static and pretty cases and beer In-Reply-To: <20020116155401.27791.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Mike White wrote: > >From what I've been reading here on the list, it seems > like cutting a giant hole in your case and putting > plexi over it doesn't sound like a really good thing > to do... ;) > ( http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/fun-stuff/376d.shtml > ) > > Seems like the easiest thing to do would be to take a > standard PC case, and glue wood panels to it. I wonder > if one couldn't use the wood laminate products at Home > Despot. > > On second thought - maybe the best thing to do would > be to get a dorm fridge, and mount the electronic > goodies in there. It already has the paint job done > to make it blend in with a dorm, and probably more > cooling than you'll ever need :) And if it has > enough room in it, you could probably stash a couple > of your favorite liquid motivators in it. The only bad thing about using one of those little half or quarter refrigarators is the possible condensation around that little "freeze" like tray. Would hate to have to take everything apart to defrost from time to time, but not a bad idea if you have a screeming system > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jack at jacku.com Wed Jan 16 21:34:04 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> Message-ID: <02011621162301.00712@geezer> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:34, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 09:12:56PM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > > I work as a Broadcast Engineer at the O&O Fox-29 in Minneapolis. > > Video editing software on Mac/Windows is literally years ahead in > > development compared to Linux. I'm not trying to bash Linux here, > > but I would simply ask why? Video editing on the desktop could have > > been a "killer app" for Linux, but it completely missed the boat. > > As a Broadcast Engineer, unless you're really green, you should be > aware that this is comparing apples to oranges. Digital video editing > started back in the late 70's and early 80's (notably with LucasFilm's > SoundDroid and VideoDroid projects, under Andy Moorer who spun off to > become Sonic Solutions when Lucas backed out.) Linux didn't even > exist then. > > It wasn't until '94 or '95 that digital video even began to encroach > on broadcast and professional editing suites -- led by Avid, mostly. > Even the million dollar editors weren't as functional as a 2" > online-editing room. > At the risk of lighting some sort of fire I'll offer these comments. ;-) Video editing might have been a killer app for Linux. Unfortunatly its not a very successfull killer app, its had its chance. Anyone else remember the Amiga and the VideoToaster? It was used for the in game effects for one of the Super Bowls ('88 or '89 I think). PC Magazine even pitched the VideoToaster as a PC peripheral. (Of course you had to buy an Amiga 2000 to use it.) Conclusion: If the HW/SW available is any good studios will use it if it cost less. TV production companies and news organizations were using VideoToasters as "prototype tools" before putting the stuff through the 6-digit Grass Valley machines and their equivilants. The parallel rendering engines that have been developed for FX production may find a way into other related areas. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From jack at jacku.com Wed Jan 16 21:36:29 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question In-Reply-To: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net> References: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net> Message-ID: <02011621271502.00712@geezer> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:14, Jon Schewe wrote: > I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like to hook it > into a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an xterm > and thus no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I just buy two > access points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest of my network into > the other and the access points will talk? Or do I need some other kind of > hardware, like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter > (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? > > > Thanks. Based on what I have working at home I say you'll need an access point plus a crossover cable or a hub. I've got the following setup: One computer using a SOHOWare NetBlaster II card, One SOHOWare NetBlaster II Wireless Hub (access point), one Linksys 5-port hub, 2 or 3 other systems connected into the hub. It all works like a charm. One of the wired systems is my firewall/router for cablemodem access. My wife uses the wireless machine and the only time we had a problem was when too much stuff (sewing machine, books, etc) piled up in front of the Net Blaster antenna. Hope this helps. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Jan 16 22:09:09 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lotus Domino For Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What sort of problems are you having? The last time I tried Linux Domino was ~18 months and that was on whatever rev of Slack was current. I think that was either the Linux beta or perhaps it was just released. *That* worked fine (for dev purposes anyway) once I got the right java library from the IBM web site. That issue has no doubt evaporated by now. Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, jwznk wrote: > Greetings everyone! > > Has anyone installed Lotus Domino server for Linux? > I'm having trouble getting it to run under RH 7.1. I'm thinking it has > too new of C++ libs or something. > > Any help would be great, thanks! > > -Joe Wozniak > pcdoc@snapreporter.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Rk2DfexLsowstzcRAoRuAKCgPW5BbLll1hsCEzF0d+bSHCnbeACeOk9r iP5zd7zk6RuIa+RVs2h/4JE= =mU50 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chegney at highstream.net Wed Jan 16 22:14:37 2002 From: chegney at highstream.net (Clinton Hegney) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c Message-ID: <3C464BCE.1090308@highstream.net> How much are you selling the power book for? -- Clinton Hegney chegney@highstream.net From josh at greentechnologist.org Wed Jan 16 22:17:12 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lotus Domino For Linux (C++ API & Perl) In-Reply-To: <02011621060800.00712@geezer> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Have you tried any dev work on it? I'm going to be working on a Domino:: set of modules shortly using the C++ API. I've been wondering how well this will work since I'll do all the dev on a W2K laptop and mostly just hope that it works ok for the other platforms. I figure the C++ API and Perl-XS can be talked to in a relatively platform neutral manner. Or that's my hope anyway. Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > On Tuesday 15 January 2002 10:15, jwznk wrote: > > Greetings everyone! > > > > Has anyone installed Lotus Domino server for Linux? > > I'm having trouble getting it to run under RH 7.1. I'm thinking it has > > too new of C++ libs or something. > > > > Any help would be great, thanks! > > > > -Joe Wozniak > > pcdoc@snapreporter.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > I installed it last summer under SuSE 7.2 I don't work for the place I > installed it anymore. (It was in a test lab.) I don't remember any glitches. > > I realize this isn't much help. But at least you know it should work. ;-) > If you get no other responses I might have some time to try and do a quick > install here at home and see if it works. (This box doesn't have the guts to > run the server productivly but should be able to get it going.) > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack@jacku.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Rk5zfexLsowstzcRAmGxAKCUd7fYYOmCY19N4RzJRB/xprglBQCfU2I+ /3gfXaNf4+1ZCOBRJY6JQ/g= =k/np -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rexboy10 at msn.com Wed Jan 16 22:27:08 2002 From: rexboy10 at msn.com (Buddy Dee) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #1850 - 14 msgs Message-ID: >Message: 4 >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] SiS 7018 sound card >From: Joel Rosenberg >To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Date: 16 Jan 2002 09:29:22 -0600 >Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 08:50, Ben Stallings wrote: > > Hello again, folks. Here I am with another remedial question... > > > > My machine has sound built into the motherboard with the SiS 7018 >chipset. > > Windows 98 required a special driver (provided with the motherboard) >before > > it would recognize the chip, but Mandrake 8.1 recognized it right away. > > Unfortunately it doesn't work. I found a tip online where someone said >to > > use the command "modprobe trident" to configure the thing, but when I >try it > > I get the following: > > > > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: init_module: >No > > such device > > Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, >including > > invalid IO or IRQ parameters > > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod > > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz failed > > /lib/modules/2.4.8-26mdk/kernel/drivers/sound/trident.o.gz: insmod >trident > > failed > > > > I'm afraid I need more of a "hint" than that. Suggestions? --Ben > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > >My own limited experience with Linux and outre hardware suggests that >the best and cheapest course is, generally, to just buy a standard >part. (My wife's machine, for example, recognizes its old NE2000 >compatible NIC card under Windows, but not under Mandrake -- so we >picked up a cheap Intel card. This would have been a smarter move if >I'd just done it in the first place, rather then spending hours and >hours trying to get the old card to work.) >-- >------------------------------------- >There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; >There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, >And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. >------------------------------------- I may be wrong, but from that error message, I get the feeling that there may be an IRQ conflict. So you would want to check if any devices share an IRQ number with another device. If it does, then try setting your sound card's IRQ to one that isn't in use. I don't know how you can check this, as I haven't had much experience with Linux aside from remote server administration. --Matt "Buddy Dee" Derosier _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Jan 16 22:29:50 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: writes: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Jon Schewe wrote: > > I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like to hook > > it into a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an > > xterm and thus no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I > > just buy two access points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest > > of my network into the other and the access points will talk? Or do I > > need some other kind of hardware, like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter > > (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? > > You can go with two Linksys WAP11's, and one will act as a client to the > other access point. Works great. Otherwise, the EC's work fine.. Well the Linksys access points are quite a bit cheaper than buying an EC plus the card for it, so I'd rather do two access points, if it'll work. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Jan 16 22:32:58 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question In-Reply-To: <20020116151516.P21131@real-time.com> References: <20020116121430.A9596@mtu.net> <20020116151516.P21131@real-time.com> Message-ID: Bob Tanner writes: > Quoting Jon Schewe (jpschewe@mtu.net): > > I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like to hook it into > > a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an xterm and thus > > no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I just buy two access > > points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest of my network into the other > > and the access points will talk? Or do I need some other kind of hardware, > > like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter > > (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? > > Linux, 2 NIC cards. 1 card wire LAN, other card wireless LAN. Plug the xterminal > into the linux box wire LAN and use the linux box as a router? Two big boxes boxes in a small space. At that point I'll just use the Linux box with a wireless LAN card and skip the Xterminal, unless I can find something that makes it better than the Linux box. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 22:41:59 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200201161810.g0GIADb06248@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Well we all have to follow the rules to some extent. Not that I would actually turn anyone in, but this activity is increasing and there is only so much bandwidth available at anyone time using XYZ technology. How would my neighbors feel if I setup a multi-band 100W RF repeater in my backyard? The FCC forbids it and every radio reciever within several hundred yards would get stepped on by my RF traffic (interference), but hey...if I can get away with it why not. I'm bucking the rules, I'm my own service provider, I'm cool. And in a very short while...I'm off. Cable modem service is $40-50 bucks a month. I get a guarenteed minimum of service provided users follow certain policies. I don't think this business model is new to anyone. When this certain class of bandwidth use is specified and allowed by AT&T, host to your hearts content. Until then, pay to use the many accepted hosting services. Nuff said. On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:14 am, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Interesting. > > Not what I would expect, though. > > Support for the web as a read only service, > and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). > > I want customers like you! ;-) > > >>> rahrenstorff@mediaone.net 01/15/02 09:41PM >>> > > > > I might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! > > Hows that settle in your gullet? > > One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 22:45:06 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <02011622155600.16422@edith> How right you are... Good night web server.. Loved your nothing content while ya lasted: http://fork.ods.org:8079 I could have sworn I got a letter explaining I could, but till I find it, I guess this would be the link I need to go by! Thanks for the info! Anybody know if AT&T does business class in Minnesota so I could do something like this. I can't do DSL as Qworst won't remove the load coils from my line. And ISDN is too much $$ for to little bandwidth. Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 16 January 2002 20:56, you wrote: > Sorry, you're wrong: > > http://help.broadband.att.com/faq.jsp?content_id=1107&category_id=34&lobid= >1 > From phil at rephil.org Wed Jan 16 23:08:42 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <02011621162301.00712@geezer> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> <02011621162301.00712@geezer> Message-ID: <20020117045455.GC11128@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 09:16:22PM -0600, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > At the risk of lighting some sort of fire I'll offer these comments. ;-) > > Video editing might have been a killer app for Linux. Unfortunatly its not a > very successfull killer app, its had its chance. Anyone else remember the > Amiga and the VideoToaster? It was used for the in game effects for one of > the Super Bowls ('88 or '89 I think). PC Magazine even pitched the > VideoToaster as a PC peripheral. (Of course you had to buy an Amiga 2000 to > use it.) > Conclusion: If the HW/SW available is any good studios will use it > if it cost less. Not a fair conclusion -- when you've got 6-digit gear to depreciate. It won't happen until the next purchasing cycle. I remember the Video Toaster -- I was working in video then, and there were quite a few video guys who had a great toy to play with, but they would often be a little bummed that they couldn't bring it into work to use. There were a lot of things that were snazzier/easier than CMX editing, though it didn't come close to a 2" Ampex machine for picture quality. > TV production companies and news organizations were using > VideoToasters as "prototype tools" before putting the stuff through > the 6-digit Grass Valley machines and their equivilants. This is true, but it took me a minute to find out how misleading it is to anyone who hasn't done video editing. The digital machine was used for what's called off-line editing, so you can get an edit list made up and see what it will look like. Then you use the big toys/tools for broadcast quality. Video Toaster was interesting in offline, but nowhere near reaquired quality for online. > The parallel rendering engines that have been developed for FX > production may find a way into other related areas. If you're talking about Pixar and PDI using Linux clusters, I think we're getting back to the thread about Pixar moving from SGI to Linux (in the tclug archives a couple of months ago.) There -- I don't think there were any flames involved, were there? :) -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From kelly-black at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 23:12:57 2002 From: kelly-black at mediaone.net (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <200201161810.g0GIADb06248@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201161810.g0GIADb06248@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <02011622413101.16471@edith> Rant: If the many accepted hosting services can provide on site service, then I would use them. It seems like not enough people wish to host from home to make it a worthwile venture from the $$ side of things. It's not that I want to skip out on giving them money for service, it's just that I want to do something that is not available. I suppose I could move, but I thought Golden Valley would be close enough to a "Big City" to get useable class of service. I guessed wrong. I also guessed that the Internet was a 2 way medium (I guessed wrong on that point as well). I suppose active ftp is bad as well as the requests are coming in as well (or is it passive ftp) oh well you know what I mean... Kelly Black KB0GBJ On Wednesday 16 January 2002 00:10, you wrote: Snip----- > service provided users follow certain policies. I don't think this > business model is new to anyone. When this certain class of bandwidth use > is specified and allowed by AT&T, host to your hearts content. Until then, > pay to use the many accepted hosting services. Nuff said. > From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jan 16 23:25:12 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA003514963@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I would think you could use an AP and just put it in bridging mode. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Schewe [mailto:jpschewe@mtu.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:15 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question > > > I've got a machine with a twisted pair connector and I'd like > to hook it into > a wireless network. I can't put a card in it because it's an > xterm and thus > no slots. I'm wondering what my options are. Can I just buy > two access > points and plugs hte xterm into one and the rest of my > network into the other > and the access points will talk? Or do I need some other > kind of hardware, > like the ORiNOCO Ethernet Converter > (http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/orinoco_converter.html)? > > > Thanks. > -- > Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe > For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels > nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any > powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all > creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that > is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jan 16 23:30:01 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> References: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1011205119.27538.8.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 11:46, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:14:55AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > Interesting. > > > > Not what I would expect, though. > > > > Support for the web as a read only service, > > and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). > > > > I want customers like you! ;-) > > All trolls aside, here's a (very) idealistic Linux scenario: > > Assume momentarily that the reason for limiting services is not just > bandwidth, but security and ISPs wanting to limit their liability for > millions of M$ users having vulnerable boxes open to the world, how > about the following policy: > > "No servers, HTTP, FTP, yada, yada, will be allowed *except* those > that run on a demonstrably secure platform." > > -- You mean they're not going to let somebody run any form of Window? :) ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Wed Jan 16 23:38:46 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> Message-ID: <200201170530.g0H5UVb27173@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:34 am, you wrote: > > Video editing on the desktop could have been a "killer app" for Linux, >>but it completely missed the boat. > > As a Broadcast Engineer, unless you're really green, you should be > aware that this is comparing apples to oranges. Digital video editing > started back in the late 70's and early 80's (notably with LucasFilm's > SoundDroid and VideoDroid projects, under Andy Moorer who spun off to > become Sonic Solutions when Lucas backed out.) Linux didn't even > exist then. I don't exactly know what you consider "really green". I know my way around a modern broacast facility but I've ony been in broadcasting for 6 years (I'm 32). But much has changed in that time. Nearly every piece of equipment is software based or runs on PC architecture. And analog signals have gone the way of the dinasaour in most studios. Your right Phil...but please notice I said "desktop". I don't understand why no one developing for Linux in the last 3-4 years would try to create applications for this viable market (that being desktop editing on a prosumer level). I mean products like imovie or idvd for Mac. Why doesn't a product like that exist for Linux today? It is still a growing market and it sounds like tools are now being developed. But again it may be another year or two before we seen that kind of quality application. Maybe it's because I simply don't have a thorough understand of Linux's development history. But as a newbie to Linux, my alternative OS, I hate to see it once again lagging behind. Heck I'll be happy to plug along, learning as I go. > They didn't develop for Linux at that time, because the tools they > needed were more readily available elsewhere (Mac). As is the case today. The tools for editing video readily exist on Mac and Windows. So how will Linux ever get ahead? > If you're talking about Linux not leading the way with the tools > trickling down to the semi-pro / consumer level, well, it's usually > the original platform or a close cousin that gets to lead the way. I would kindly disagree here. The Mac platform lead the way for many years. Now more hardware/software for video editing (even still image manipulation) is sold for the Windows platform both for consumers and professionals. At least according to broadcast trade magazines. > This is one of the downsides of the earlier days of Linux as a DIY > hacker project -- it didn't have it's foot in very many doors that > weren't dorm rooms or CSCI geeks'/depts. These days, Linux *is* > considered as a place to start, but you have to look harder to find an > open field to plow. You sound like you have a long history with Linux and a much greater understanding than I. Could you shed some light on what you believe these "open fields" may represent? Thanks for the info Phil. From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jan 17 00:01:04 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SiS 7018 sound card In-Reply-To: <200201161752.g0GHqI510957@sprite.real-time.com> References: <02011010312802.01284@Romana> <20020116161334.44CE828EC7@thursday.freeze.com> <200201161752.g0GHqI510957@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020116185406.5F19328EC8@thursday.freeze.com> The Open Sound System.. they have a bunch of free modules for more common sound cards, which are open source. But, they also sell a much larger array of modules that are closed source, and cost money. If your chipset is in the same family as the 7012 (which sounds reasonable) then the only linux drivers out there will cost you moeny. You might want to do some more research, though. Jay On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:52 am, you wrote: > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 10:13, Jay Kline wrote: > > I am not sure about the 7018, but I know the 7012 has drivers that are > > only availible with the paid version of OSS. What MoBo is that on? > > Hm... the manufacturer didn't exactly splash their name around. Near as I > can tell from the manual, it's a PC266 SystemBoard M810 series, Socket A. > > What's OSS? --Ben > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jan 17 00:12:02 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless LAN question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16 Jan 2002, Jon Schewe wrote: > Well the Linksys access points are quite a bit cheaper than buying an > EC plus the card for it, so I'd rather do two access points, if it'll > work. Yup, that it will. Done it many times. Just make sure you get brand new WAP11's (v1.1 hardware reviusion).. the older ones have some issues with new firmware. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jan 17 01:46:51 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116185241.GD1226@iucha.net>; from florin@iucha.net on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:52:41PM -0600 References: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> <20020116185241.GD1226@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020116151304.O21131@real-time.com> Quoting Florin Iucha (florin@iucha.net): > Security is a process, not a product. Amen! > There is no demonstrably secure platform, except one that is unplugged > and locked into a safe 10k feet under the sea. We like to say the only secure network/computer is one without any users. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From rexboy10 at msn.com Thu Jan 17 04:30:59 2002 From: rexboy10 at msn.com (Buddy Dee) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi, I'm a newbie to Linux and I've been having problems running Red hat 7.0 on my computer. It was working fine until I upgraded my computer's AGP video card to a GeForce 2 (which I am told does not work with Xwindows unless you DL some drivers for it) and I formatted my HDD and installed Windows XP. Now when I install Linux (after partitioning, of course!) Anaconda doesn't run and Lilo doesn't work as my boot loader. I really would like to install a working copy of linux without having to burn an ISO image to a CD. -- _NK! (TheGreatNikko) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From josh at greentechnologist.org Thu Jan 17 04:33:50 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <20020116205256.GB9020@rephil.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm curious. Which platforms do you include on that list? Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:52:41PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > There is no demonstrably secure platform, except one that is unplugged > > and locked into a safe 10k feet under the sea. > > No, there are (few) others. > > -- > www.rephil.org > > "Trying to do something with your life is like > sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8RfMSfexLsowstzcRAjfbAKC/8lRxpG0WSoWKY1/yiej09gkwNgCfSuhl m2ghh8LyS93Rr+zpGywnHa4= =boct -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jan 17 08:29:39 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! References: Message-ID: <003d01c19f5e$8af57990$3028680a@tgt.com> I can't blame the guy. The AUP suggests that you can't run servers. People that run servers, often pull way to much upstream bandwidth at the expense of other people on their node. Why should he have to suffer slowdowns because another user is breaking the AUP and getting away with it. If you want to run a web server get a hosting company to do it or get another technology for you to deliver your product. Cable is for users, not servers. Tom Veldhouse veldy71@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy.A Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DNS Question! > Interesting. > > Not what I would expect, though. > > Support for the web as a read only service, > and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). > > I want customers like you! ;-) > > >>> rahrenstorff@mediaone.net 01/15/02 09:41PM >>> > > I might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! > > Hows that settle in your gullet? > > One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From Ben at Workscited.Net Thu Jan 17 08:48:25 2002 From: Ben at Workscited.Net (Ben Stallings) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: resale pricing (was: Linux on an Apple PowerBook 1400c) In-Reply-To: <3C464BCE.1090308@highstream.net> References: <3C464BCE.1090308@highstream.net> Message-ID: <200201171411.g0HEBc528195@sprite.real-time.com> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 21:58, Clinton Hegney wrote: > How much are you selling the power book for? I'm assuming this is directed at me and my Wallstreet G3.... I'm trading it for a bicycle of equivalent value (~$900, including upgrades) But while we're on the subject, I'm curious how other people decide how to price equipment they're selling. I generally go to eBay, look at finished auctions for the same item I'm selling, and compare. But I know people who will buy a piece of used equipment for, say, $250, sit on it for a few months, and then try to sell it again for $250. Are there other strategies we should be aware of? --Ben From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jan 17 09:29:14 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! References: <20020116174648.GH8036@rephil.org> Message-ID: <004801c19f5e$f677c0b0$3028680a@tgt.com> Nice idea, but not fair. You CAN secure a Windows box if you know how, it is just that most don't. You can unsecure a Linux box easily if you don't know (or even if you know) what you are doing. What you are talking about is basically OS racism. Fact is that one is not allowed to run a server and may (and in some cases should) pay the consequences for doing so. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Mendelsohn" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DNS Question! > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:14:55AM -0600, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > > Interesting. > > > > Not what I would expect, though. > > > > Support for the web as a read only service, > > and total buy-in to cable ISP policies(/shackles). > > > > I want customers like you! ;-) > > All trolls aside, here's a (very) idealistic Linux scenario: > > Assume momentarily that the reason for limiting services is not just > bandwidth, but security and ISPs wanting to limit their liability for > millions of M$ users having vulnerable boxes open to the world, how > about the following policy: > > "No servers, HTTP, FTP, yada, yada, will be allowed *except* those > that run on a demonstrably secure platform." > > -- > www.rephil.org > > "Trying to do something with your life is like > sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jan 17 09:32:14 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <005101c19f5f$607f0090$3028680a@tgt.com> > > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, > and that's apparently not happening. > That is not true. The cable connection is very asynchronous, biased in the download direction for a user (at least 5:1). Once that upload pipe fills up, the download pipe will start to stall waiting for acks to be sent back up. It only takes a [few] game server[s] and a porn or warez site to do real damage in a neighborhood. You argument sounds a lot like a rationalization. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net > > -- > ------------------------------------- > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. > ------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jan 17 09:34:47 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question -- and a postfix question... References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com><20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org><1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116151204.N21131@real-time.com> <1011218693.30402.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <006601c19f5f$b9a96340$3028680a@tgt.com> Yes -- take a look at /etc/postfix/main.cf and see what there is to see ;) I won't give you too much for free. Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Rosenberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DNS Question -- and a postfix question... > On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 15:12, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Joel Rosenberg (joelr@ellegon.com): > > > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > > > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a > > > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, > > > and that's apparently not happening. > > > > AS and ISP I disagree. > > > > 2 words for you. > > > > CodRed > > Nimda > > > > These things cause all sorts of "traffic accidents" on networks. > > > > > > A fair enough cop, perhaps, but I think I was talking about servers > being run as, well, servers, rather than as part of a network attack. > By that standard, pretty much any station that can generate packets is a > potential danger. > > Quick question: I'm using postfix for local mail delivery -- running > fetchmail to pick up popmail from various servers. Is there any quick > and easy way I can restrict postfix access to IP addresses of > 192.168.0.n? > > ------------------------------------- > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > Who weeps for her only son; > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > A grave that the Burmans shun, > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > Who tells how the work was done. > ------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Jan 17 10:16:02 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1011282548.10354.15.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 15:30, Buddy Dee wrote: > Hi, I'm a newbie to Linux and I've been having problems running Red hat 7.0 > on my computer. It was working fine until I upgraded my computer's AGP video > card to a GeForce 2 (which I am told does not work with Xwindows unless you > DL some drivers for it) and I formatted my HDD and installed Windows XP. Now > when I install Linux (after partitioning, of course!) Anaconda doesn't run > and Lilo doesn't work as my boot loader. I really would like to install a > working copy of linux without having to burn an ISO image to a CD. > > For what it's worth, I'm running a similar Nvidia card under Mandrake 8.1, without difficulty, although there are some documented problems (different from yours) with the initial setup under Mandrake. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Jan 17 11:07:45 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:56:04PM -0600 References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 08:56:04PM -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > XIII run programs or servers from the Premises which provide network content > or any other services to others. Examples of prohibited programs include, > but are not limited to, mail, ftp, http, game, newsgroup, proxy, IRC servers > and multi-user interactive forums; Ah, ha. Here's your loop: "provide network content or any other services to others", "to others" being the key, here. I would say it's safe to run services for yourself but not others. ;-) "This web server is run for my own personal edification and no other reason. If you are not me and you're viewing this web server, you should not be here. Go away. Why, because AT&Greed are dorks. . [ Login ] [ Leave ] " I'm on DSL, so this concern doesn't really apply to me, but I do find that serving up ssh sessions from my workstation at home is very useful. It's also nice to be able to serve up images from your home workstation if your ISP has quotas on your homepage/website. There are ways around these agreements, people. You just have to look closely. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Jan 17 11:20:04 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! Message-ID: True enough. Cable is for users, not servers. I have problem with the idea of accepting/ promoting the Internet as a new kind of "Television": all one way and read only. Another we'll-provide-the-programming-you- just-sit-back-and-watch-it medium. Lame. Sorry for going off half cocked. Troy >>> veldy@veldy.net 01/17/02 07:54AM >>> I can't blame the guy. The AUP suggests that you can't run servers. People that run servers, often pull way to much upstream bandwidth at the expense of other people on their node. Why should he have to suffer slowdowns because another user is breaking the AUP and getting away with it. If you want to run a web server get a hosting company to do it or get another technology for you to deliver your product. Cable is for users, not servers. From ray at lctn.k12.mn.us Thu Jan 17 11:31:49 2002 From: ray at lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mysqldump mysqladmin Message-ID: <007d01c19f79$de1d35c0$0238dccc@hutchtel.net> I am messing with more MySql, trying to dump tables to .txt files. I am getting permission denied within this: mysqldump -uroot -p Meet_A_Geek Customers >MeetAGeek_Customers.txt I get the same without specifying the user. I was messing with mysqladmin and getting the same type of problems, when I discovered the password is blank, nothing there. It gives me the info I need without any password. I looked up how to change it, but all I can find is info on changing it from one password to another. I am guessing the problems are related. Can I get any pointers on how to set the password and get a successful dump? Raymond -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020117/cca066c4/attachment.htm From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 17 11:44:54 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: References: <20020116205256.GB9020@rephil.org> Message-ID: <20020117133302.GC13935@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 03:39:27PM -0600, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > I'm curious. Which platforms do you include on that list? VMS, despite Alan Cox's unproven claim that he can crash it. Without physical access to the system console, it has been, at least for practical purposes, secure. I'm not sure about MPE. I think IBM has a couple. I know DoD has some, but they run a lot of VMS, so that may be a circular ref. I'm not promoting other OS's on this list -- I'd like to see Linux draw from them, i.e., steal their best features. > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:52:41PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > > > There is no demonstrably secure platform, except one that is unplugged > > > and locked into a safe 10k feet under the sea. > > > > No, there are (few) others. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 17 11:51:59 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020117172215.GB14938@rephil.org> On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 10:36:45AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > There are ways around these agreements, people. You just have to > look closely. Sheesh, some people's kids. You're not agreeing if you're going around an agreement, are you? If you don't like it, don't sign it. If you're within in, you're within it. If you're within it, but they didn't mean for what you're doing to be allowed, then shame on their lawyers. If you're not within it, but no one notices, well, it's your karma, not mine. A pox on your code, if you exploit loopholes. ;) Isn't it about time to mention a certain infamous German? -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From leif at mn.rr.com Thu Jan 17 11:57:45 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1011282548.10354.15.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> Message-ID: I haven't had any problems with my GeForce 2 using RedHat 7.2. XConfig loads up the drivers automatically in the install. NVidia chipsets seem to be supported well. I was even able to run SCO UNIX OpenServer 5.0.6 with my GF2 w/o any special configuring. -----Original Message----- On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 15:30, Buddy Dee wrote: > Hi, I'm a newbie to Linux and I've been having problems running Red hat 7.0 > on my computer. It was working fine until I upgraded my computer's AGP video > card to a GeForce 2 (which I am told does not work with Xwindows unless you > DL some drivers for it) and I formatted my HDD and installed Windows XP. Now > when I install Linux (after partitioning, of course!) Anaconda doesn't run > and Lilo doesn't work as my boot loader. I really would like to install a > working copy of linux without having to burn an ISO image to a CD. > > For what it's worth, I'm running a similar Nvidia card under Mandrake 8.1, without difficulty, although there are some documented problems (different from yours) with the initial setup under Mandrake. From rahrenstorff at mediaone.net Thu Jan 17 12:00:17 2002 From: rahrenstorff at mediaone.net (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <200201171727.g0HHR5b04864@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> On Thursday 17 January 2002 10:36 am, you wrote: > Ah, ha. Here's your loop: "provide network content or any other services > to others", "to others" being the key, here. I would say it's safe to run > services for yourself but not others. ;-) > > "This web server is run for my own personal edification and no other > reason. If you are not me and you're viewing this web server, you > should not be here. Go away. Why, because AT&Greed are dorks. to license agreement>. > > [ Login ] [ Leave ] > " Good one chewie. A monopsony server! From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Jan 17 12:56:03 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <20020117172215.GB14938@rephil.org> References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> <20020117172215.GB14938@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1011292287.14673.2.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 11:22, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 10:36:45AM -0600, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > > > There are ways around these agreements, people. You just have to > > look closely. > > Sheesh, some people's kids. > > You're not agreeing if you're going around an agreement, are you? An agreement is what it is, not what the person writing it wishes it was, or wishes that it could be. This is particularly important, both morally and (so I believe, although IANAL) legally, when the party writing the agreement is vastly more powerful than the other. Definitions matter; words matter. If AT&T had chosen to write their TOS agreement so as to prohibit anything that, functionally, is a server from connecting without its own public, static IP address, they'd have found themselves losing all their corporate clients, who have lawyers and systems folks too, and who understand that, in some senses, almost any Windows workstation is a server. (See Steve Gibson's Shields Up for some discussion of how a Windows PC with NetBios enabled is, fundamentally, a server.) AT&T/RR/etc. are *not* going to disallow everybody using Windows from buying their services. Nor are they going to say, well, run any server you want, and use as much bandwidth as you like, as long as you run it over NetBIOS, for reasons I'll leave as an obvious exercise to the reader. Nor, for that matter, are they going to say, "hey, you get x gigabytes per month, and we'll charge you extra for using more than that", as folks who aren't going to use even a fraction of x will gravitate toward a provider who gives them an open pipe. So, they've come up with a fairly sensible compromise: the contract says, in effect, "don't run a server for others", and the practice is "don't run a server in a way that's going to make trouble for us". Which, really, is just fine. If I wanted to run a lot of server stuff, I'd get a static IP connection, and pay for it. As it is, I don't, and I don't. (In a parallel sort of way, RoadRunner will tell you, "yes, we do promise you service and connectivity, but if you want to connect from a Linux box, or put a hub and more than one machine directly on your cable box instead of using a Windows gateway machine and NAT, you're on your own." [I ran into that problem, by the way. At some point, RoadRunner stopped issuing more than two dynamic IPs to my cable modem, and I had to figure out how to get NAT working on one of the Linux boxes, so that the others could talk to the net. I would have loved to dump the problem in their lap, but that wasn't part of the agreement, so I was on my own. They could have said, "no hubs or switches may be connected to our cable box," and I'd have had to put the hub behind the gateway/firewall machine, which would be the loophole for that problem.) All of which is fine. They don't really care if my wife ssh's in to check her email at home, or if you check in, via webmin, to see the logs on your own machine. They don't want you starting your own private yahoo.com for $50/month.... So everybody goes away happy, right? -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From nate at techie.com Thu Jan 17 13:14:24 2002 From: nate at techie.com (Nate Straz) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? Message-ID: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this weekend. Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth going? I've been to some shows in the past, but I don't find their $8 admission charge worth the show. Compared to online prices, I don't see the point. What does everyone else think? Should I just find a good online shop or is it worth driving to Shakopee this weekend to find some deals? Nate P.S. I'm shopping for storage at the moment, probably a few IDE drives and an extra controller. From jack at jacku.com Thu Jan 17 14:14:23 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (jack@jacku.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? Message-ID: <20020117194351.2623.cpmta@c015.snv.cp.net> On Thu, 17 January 2002, Nate Straz wrote: > > I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this > weekend. Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth > going? > > I've been to some shows in the past, but I don't find their $8 admission > charge worth the show. Compared to online prices, I don't see the > point. > > What does everyone else think? Should I just find a good online shop or > is it worth driving to Shakopee this weekend to find some deals? > > Nate > > P.S. I'm shopping for storage at the moment, probably a few IDE drives > and an extra controller. For me its a question of "shopping". I usually go to see what books are available at discount and if there's anything else I might want that you can't get off the shelf locally. Does it beat shopping on-line? Probably not unless you want to a tactile connection to the item before you buy. I'm going to go mostly to see if I can find any deals. I too am often disappointed, but I often go just to see what's there. That said there are usually a lot of drive dealers there and some good prices. Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From phil at rephil.org Thu Jan 17 14:41:55 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <200201170530.g0H5UVb27173@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <200201151513.g0FFDCb01939@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116173430.GF8036@rephil.org> <200201170530.g0H5UVb27173@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <20020117201641.GA15880@rephil.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:30:22AM -0600, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > Your right Phil...but please notice I said "desktop". I don't > understand why no one developing for Linux in the last 3-4 years > would try to create applications for this viable market (that being > desktop editing on a prosumer level). I guess that's sort of the answer: it's not people who develop for Linux that drive the process -- it's people who market video stuff. If *they* see Linux as a feature, then they can push the engineers to incorporate it. Otherwise, the engineers tend to go for the low hanging fruit. > But as a newbie to Linux, my alternative OS, I hate to see it once > again lagging behind. Heck I'll be happy to plug along, learning as > I go. Take heart -- in my experience, Linux lags initially, but once it reaches a critical mass, it really takes off. > As is the case today. The tools for editing video readily exist on Mac and > Windows. So how will Linux ever get ahead? Well, the same way development on any other platform will: through a combination of clever/talented developers, and committed and coherent marketing. The thing about Linux is that it's easier for these people to get into the game, since they don't have to pay so many licenses for the base work. > > If you're talking about Linux not leading the way with the tools > > trickling down to the semi-pro / consumer level, well, it's usually > > the original platform or a close cousin that gets to lead the way. > I would kindly disagree here. The Mac platform lead the way for > many years. Now more hardware/software for video editing (even > still image manipulation) is sold for the Windows platform both for > consumers and professionals. At least according to broadcast trade > magazines. You're not really disagreeing, you're noting a shift in the market over 10 years. There's no reason the next one couldn't be towards Linux. Frankly, as someone who used to run a digital media based business on a daily basis, I don't know why people ever suffered through non-real-time, non-multi-tasking systems. From the bottom line point of view, it becomes obvious that the more bits you can shuffle from source media to delivery media, the more $$ the company makes. This is one area where Linux really does offer advantages to some of the other systems. > You sound like you have a long history with Linux and a much greater > understanding than I. Well, that's just how I sound. ;) > Could you shed some light on what you believe these > "open fields" may represent? I just mean that if you were to sit down and say "what's an application that hasn't been done before?", it becomes a lot harder to make a list. Office/"productivity" software, databases, real-time systems, communications/media -- computers have already been applied to lots of these fields. It's hard to find wheels that haven't already been invented than it was 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. -- www.rephil.org "Trying to do something with your life is like sitting down to eat a moose." --Douglas Wood From leif at mn.rr.com Thu Jan 17 15:12:23 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Home wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I went to Microcenter yesterday and the bargain bin looks to already be picked over for this book. I think it was in the bargain bin b/c it was the 1st edition of the book and it looks like the 2nd edition just came out recently (different ISBN number). Microcenter had quite a few of the 2nd edition in the networking section for around $42 ... but that's not a bargain anymore is it. :-( ----- Original Message ----- > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 11:13:24PM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > I have just got back from MicroCenter. In the bargain book department > > they have "Cabling: The Complete Guide to Network Cabling" > > (ISBN:0-7821-2645-6) for $5.99 . > > Sounds promising, but is it any good? > It's excellent, 808 pages covering everything including all the stuff discussed in this thread. I paid cover price for it several months ago when I was learning how to crimp my own patch cables. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1328 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020117/e6ddefbf/winmail.bin From brian at iproduction.com Thu Jan 17 15:18:17 2002 From: brian at iproduction.com (Brian Strassman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? References: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3C47311D.A0B049AE@iproduction.com> Nate Straz wrote: > > I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this > weekend. Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth > going? > > I've been to some shows in the past, but I don't find their $8 admission > charge worth the show. Compared to online prices, I don't see the > point. > > What does everyone else think? Should I just find a good online shop or > is it worth driving to Shakopee this weekend to find some deals? > > Nate > > P.S. I'm shopping for storage at the moment, probably a few IDE drives > and an extra controller. Good luck finding standalone controllers. I went to the last sale at the Fairgrounds looking for an IDE RAID card for my Windoze box, and came up bust. Plenty of vendors with plenty of motherboards w/onboard RAID, but no standalone IDE RAID cards, and I don't think I saw any standalone IDE cards at all at any of the vendor booths. Brian From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jan 17 15:20:48 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! References: Message-ID: <010b01c19f93$3a665b40$3028680a@tgt.com> Naw, the Internet can not be "read only". For every consumer, there must be a provider. For every download, there is an upload somewhere else. The internet IS synchrounous when taken as a whole. Hey, I just extended the conservation of energy theory to the Internet! Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy.A Johnson" To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] DNS Question! > True enough. Cable is for users, not servers. > > I have problem with the idea of accepting/ > promoting the Internet as a new kind of > "Television": all one way and read only. > Another we'll-provide-the-programming-you- > just-sit-back-and-watch-it medium. Lame. > > Sorry for going off half cocked. > > Troy > > >>> veldy@veldy.net 01/17/02 07:54AM >>> > I can't blame the guy. The AUP suggests that you can't run servers. People > that run servers, often pull way to much upstream bandwidth at the expense > of other people on their node. Why should he have to suffer slowdowns > because another user is breaking the AUP and getting away with it. If you > want to run a web server get a hosting company to do it or get another > technology for you to deliver your product. Cable is for users, not > servers. > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Thu Jan 17 15:42:39 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer Message-ID: <000010b304147c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> > Well, the same way development on any other platform will: through a > combination of clever/talented developers, and committed and coherent > marketing. There seems to be too many committed and coherent marketers on Windows, not enoough for Linux. It's not going to attract a lot of developers until they see a large viable market. > As is the case today. The tools for editing video readily exist on Mac and > Windows. So how will Linux ever get ahead? Through an OS that provides some advantage over the other two for this type of processing. That could attract the users which in turn would attract developers. Only how different can Linux be from OSX in terms of power for this type of processing now that OSX is basically Unix too? IPC 2001 From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Jan 17 16:22:54 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? In-Reply-To: <3C47311D.A0B049AE@iproduction.com> References: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <3C47311D.A0B049AE@iproduction.com> Message-ID: <1011305074.3258.2.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 14:16, Brian Strassman wrote: > > Nate Straz wrote: > > > > I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this > > weekend. Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth > > going? > > > > I've been to some shows in the past, but I don't find their $8 admission > > charge worth the show. Compared to online prices, I don't see the > > point. > > > > What does everyone else think? Should I just find a good online shop or > > is it worth driving to Shakopee this weekend to find some deals? > > > > Nate > > > > P.S. I'm shopping for storage at the moment, probably a few IDE drives > > and an extra controller. > > > Good luck finding standalone controllers. I went to the last > sale at the Fairgrounds looking for an IDE RAID card for > my Windoze box, and came up bust. Plenty of vendors with > plenty of motherboards w/onboard RAID, but no standalone IDE > RAID cards, and I don't think I saw any standalone > IDE cards at all at any of the vendor booths. > This squares with my take on such things: going to one of these things with some disposable money -- and a desire to find some neat stuff, preferably old neat stuff cheap, usually works. Going to find a specific thing, at a good price, probably is less likely. Realistically, if you're looking for IDE drives, you're probably not going to find much more bang for the buck than, say, a 60GB EIDE ULTRA-ATA/100 DESKSTAR 7200RPM 60GXP from IBM for $113.50, as a quick search at ZDnet reveals. -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From wilcoxon at bridge.com Thu Jan 17 16:28:14 2002 From: wilcoxon at bridge.com (Stephen R. Wilcoxon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: Message from Rodd Ahrenstorff of "Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:41:10 CST." <200201161541.g0GFfLb04808@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> References: <200201161541.g0GFfLb04808@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <200201172124.QAA04141@mnmailhost> On Tue 2002/01/15 21:41:10 CST, Rodd Ahrenstorff wr ites: > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 8:42 am, Leif Hvidsten wrote: > > If you go over to netcraft, you'll see there are plenty of people running > > Apache and IIS servers within Roadrunner's netblock: > > > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=RR-CENTRAL-2BLK,65.28.0.0,65.3 > >1 .255.255 > > > > I'm sure this is only a small sampling too. > > > My response: > > These are two anonymous posts on one forum I visit. I also use roadrunner > cable service, but I pay quite a bit for my connection and don't really > appreciate people hosting sites in my neighborhood sucking up bandwidth. I > might just go and report users I find hosting such sites! Hows that settle > in your gullet? One day your site is there, the next...it ain't. Just wondering why you care? Running servers on RoadRunner are slow. Upload speeds are throttled to 384k. I regularly get around 2000k download - I probably wouldn't even notice if someone in my neighborhood was running a "busy" server (eg using up his total 384k). From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jan 17 16:32:11 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mysqldump mysqladmin In-Reply-To: <007d01c19f79$de1d35c0$0238dccc@hutchtel.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am messing with more MySql, trying to dump tables to .txt files. I > am getting permission denied within this: > > mysqldump -uroot -p Meet_A_Geek Customers >MeetAGeek_Customers.txt > > I get the same without specifying the user. I was messing with > mysqladmin and getting the same type of problems, when I discovered > the password is blank, nothing there. It gives me the info I need > without any password. I looked up how to change it, but all I can find > is info on changing it from one password to another. I am guessing the > problems are related. Can I get any pointers on how to set the > password and get a successful dump? Are you just hitting enter for the password? That should work fine.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From Nicksteeler12 at cs.com Thu Jan 17 17:04:13 2002 From: Nicksteeler12 at cs.com (Nicksteeler12@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? Message-ID: my friend got a celi (celeron) 466 there a couple years ago for like $150 and it i would pay that for the system today easily -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020117/aae46d2b/attachment.htm From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Jan 17 19:53:59 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] No Servers (was DNS Questions) In-Reply-To: <1011292287.14673.2.camel@joelr.ellegon.com>; from joelr@ellegon.com on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 12:31:27PM -0600 References: <200201161906.g0GJ5xb27329@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> <20020116205604.L25681@techmonkeys.org> <20020117103645.B27103@wookimus.net> <20020117172215.GB14938@rephil.org> <1011292287.14673.2.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> Message-ID: <20020117191909.O25681@techmonkeys.org> > Definitions matter; words matter. If AT&T had chosen to write their TOS > agreement so as to prohibit anything that, functionally, is a server > from connecting without its own public, static IP address, they'd have > found themselves losing all their corporate clients, who have lawyers > and systems folks too, and who understand that, in some senses, almost > any Windows workstation is a server. (See Steve Gibson's Shields Up for > some discussion of how a Windows PC with NetBios enabled is, > fundamentally, a server.) AT&T/RR/etc. are *not* going to disallow > everybody using Windows from buying their services. Nor are they going > to say, well, run any server you want, and use as much bandwidth as you > like, as long as you run it over NetBIOS, for reasons I'll leave as an > obvious exercise to the reader. Nor, for that matter, are they going to > say, "hey, you get x gigabytes per month, and we'll charge you extra for > using more than that", as folks who aren't going to use even a fraction > of x will gravitate toward a provider who gives them an open pipe. > Not to nitpick, but AT&T blocks all port 137, 138 and 139 (udp & tcp) traffic directly at the cable modem to prevent this. I do agree with the general idea of your post though. They don't want you causing trouble, or degrading the network. As for the 'read only internet' comments, there's nothing that says you cannot ftp into your webhosting provider, or AT&T *free* web space (http://people.mn.mediaone.net), and put your own content up. Or content via the various chat protocols, email, news, IRC, or by contributing to projects on the net. They simply don't want you chewing up bandwidth doing it from your low cost home internet connection =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Jan 17 19:55:32 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? In-Reply-To: <3C47311D.A0B049AE@iproduction.com>; from brian@iproduction.com on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:16:29PM -0600 References: <20020117124943.A7244@candle.mn.mediaone.net> <3C47311D.A0B049AE@iproduction.com> Message-ID: <20020117192559.P25681@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:16:29PM -0600, Brian Strassman wrote: > > Good luck finding standalone controllers. I went to the last > sale at the Fairgrounds looking for an IDE RAID card for > my Windoze box, and came up bust. Plenty of vendors with > plenty of motherboards w/onboard RAID, but no standalone IDE > RAID cards, and I don't think I saw any standalone > IDE cards at all at any of the vendor booths. > Have you looked at what Promise makes? http://www.promise.com/Products/Default.htm http://www.pricewatch.com lists the following: SuperTrak SX6000 at $260, and the SuperTrak 66 at $229 > Brian -- Matthew S. Hallacy CACU, PWGCS, and BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Jan 17 19:57:59 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Super Computer Sale, any thoughts?? In-Reply-To: <20020117194351.2623.cpmta@c015.snv.cp.net>; from jack@jacku.com on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:43:51AM -0800 References: <20020117194351.2623.cpmta@c015.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <20020117184523.C27103@wookimus.net> On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:43:51AM -0800, jack@jacku.com wrote: > I've seen ads for the "Super Computer Sale" at Canterbury Park this weekend. > Do people really find good deals at this show? Is it worth going? When I first started putting computers together, this is where I began. I was awestruck by the sheer volume of electronic gadgetry. The sight of all that electronics was truely heart-warming. As my knowledge about computers and their components grew, the less I came to value the "Super Computer Sale" and the more I appreciated local vendors. There certainly are good deals to be found at the SCS, as well as on line at PriceWatch.com, etc. I enjoy the personal attention and accessibility of local vendors, and I'll pay the slight markup. If I have a problem with my equipment, I can avoid shipping charges that I would otherwise have with an out-of-state vendor. The SCS is a cool thing to attend, if only once. Beyond that, it's really only good for entertainment value. Don't expect too much. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr Get my public key, ICQ#, etc. Send email w/the Subject: "get help" From leif at mn.rr.com Thu Jan 17 20:42:18 2002 From: leif at mn.rr.com (Leif Hvidsten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RF and Static and pretty cases and beer In-Reply-To: <20020116155401.27791.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just need to worry about condensation on all those hot chips (i.e. north bridge, CPU, and video card chip would be the hottest as well as the hard drives). -----Original Message----- On second thought - maybe the best thing to do would be to get a dorm fridge, and mount the electronic goodies in there. It already has the paint job done to make it blend in with a dorm, and probably more cooling than you'll ever need :) And if it has enough room in it, you could probably stash a couple of your favorite liquid motivators in it. From jack at jacku.com Thu Jan 17 21:09:13 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lotus Domino For Linux (C++ API & Perl) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02011720494500.00740@geezer> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 22:09, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Have you tried any dev work on it? I'm going to be working on a Domino:: > set of modules shortly using the C++ API. No, I don't "do" C++. ;-) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From jack at jacku.com Thu Jan 17 21:29:03 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video editing and new computer In-Reply-To: <20020117045455.GC11128@rephil.org> References: <5F82C717009DF446AD6C89008A29F3940236A289@MAIL4.corp.isib.net> <02011621162301.00712@geezer> <20020117045455.GC11128@rephil.org> Message-ID: <02011720574901.00740@geezer> On Wednesday 16 January 2002 22:54, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 09:16:22PM -0600, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > > Not a fair conclusion -- when you've got 6-digit gear to depreciate. > It won't happen until the next purchasing cycle. I remember the Video > Toaster -- I was working in video then, and there were quite a few > video guys who had a great toy to play with, but they would often be a > little bummed that they couldn't bring it into work to use. There > were a lot of things that were snazzier/easier than CMX editing, > though it didn't come close to a 2" Ampex machine for picture quality. > I agree with most of this. At the time a VideoToaster unit from NewTek cost about $5000 or $6000 for all the features, if I remember correctly. For large TV operations that was a viable "experimentation" number. I was out of the video business by that time. (I actually was only involved tangentally anyway.) I'm going on cloudy memories of PR from NewTek and Amiga at the time. > > There -- I don't think there were any flames involved, were there? :) No there weren't. Thank you very much. 8^) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From joelr at ellegon.com Thu Jan 17 22:07:27 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DNS Question! In-Reply-To: <005101c19f5f$607f0090$3028680a@tgt.com> References: <1011130611.7089.2.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <20020116172012.GE8036@rephil.org> <1011203278.27232.4.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <005101c19f5f$607f0090$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <1011282416.10354.13.camel@joelr.ellegon.com> On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 08:00, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > > > Except, of course, people speeding causes other folks problems and > > danger; given the actual bandwidth, a *lot* of folks would have to run a > > *lot* of servers in order to inconvenience anybody else even a little, > > and that's apparently not happening. > > > > That is not true. The cable connection is very asynchronous, biased in the > download direction for a user (at least 5:1). Once that upload pipe fills > up, the download pipe will start to stall waiting for acks to be sent back > up. It only takes a [few] game server[s] and a porn or warez site to do > real damage in a neighborhood. > > You argument sounds a lot like a rationalization. Why would you say that? Sounds kind of passive-aggressive, no? > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------- > > There's a widow in sleepy Chester > > Who weeps for her only son; > > There's a grave on the Pabeng River, > > A grave that the Burmans shun, > > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri > > Who tells how the work was done. > > ------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- ------------------------------------- There's a widow in sleepy Chester Who weeps for her only son; There's a grave on the Pabeng River, A grave that the Burmans shun, And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri Who tells how the work was done. ------------------------------------- From josh at greentechnologist.org Thu Jan 17 22:36:06 2002 From: josh at greentechnologist.org (Joshua b. Jore) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Lotus Domino For Linux (C++ API & Perl) In-Reply-To: <02011720494500.00740@geezer> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Good enough. It's just that the Domino C++ API is much nicer than the C API. There are a handful of things that are only available in the C API but those are generally pretty esoteric. The one thing I'd really like to get a handle on are the extension manager callbacks. What I think would be *really* cool would be to go something like: use Domino; Domino::BindEvent( NSFDbDeleteNote => \&do_something, # prevalidate and log deletions NSFUpdateNote => sub { return 0 }, # Block all updates ); sub do_something (@) { # ..... } That's blue sky dream anyway. The rest of Domino:: must be put together first (and there is some initial work to use the C API, I just didn't like it that much) Joshua b. Jore Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10 http://www.greentechnologist.org On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > On Wednesday 16 January 2002 22:09, Joshua b. Jore wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Have you tried any dev work on it? I'm going to be working on a Domino:: > > set of modules shortly using the C++ API. > > > No, I don't "do" C++. ;-) > > -- > Jack Ungerleider > jack@jacku.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (OpenBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8R6YcfexLsowstzcRAiT5AJ98rtfKq7H6ApFLnlPhFmzjKZuOVQCfX2fz SI76BBQaCrDlmYHmr3rpGcc= =snMt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From xpoverby at attbroadband.com Thu Jan 17 22:40:55 2002 From: xpoverby at attbroadband.com (Paul Overby) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft Makes Software Safety a Top Goal Message-ID: <200201171623.g0HGN7b10062@mnmai05.mn.mediaone.net> You will probably need to create a login to view this but thought I'd pass it on for anyone who cares. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/17/technology/17SECU.html?todaysheadlines At least it suggest that micosoft is feeling a little pressure which is the only way we are going to get better products from them. -- Paul Overby xpoverby@ATTBroadband.com From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Jan 17 22:44:14 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quick question In-Reply-To: ; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 04:56:40PM -0600 References: <3C45ED07.38BC32DD@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <20020117102956.A27103@wookimus.net> Debian uses the standard /etc/init.d/