From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Mon Jul 1 00:13:35 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list, help with epplet Message-ID: <34319.65.25.236.180.1025499139.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Hello, new to this list, playing around with Enlightenment. Trying to configure the E-Biff epplet, but I'm not having much luck. I can't find any man pages or other docs. The properties button on the epplet does nothing more than launch Eterm. Any Enlightenment users here want to give me some enlightenment as to what I'm doing wrong? Thanks... -- o |::::::::################ |::::::::################ |::::::::################ Tracy McKibben |::::::::################ AIM: tmckibben2002 |######################## tracy@mckibben.d2g.com |######################## http://mckibben.d2g.com |######################## |######################## |######################## Currently 89?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 98?F From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Jul 1 03:34:22 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020701012458.GE13204@refried.org>; from nate@refried.org on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 08:24:59PM -0500 References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <20020629165125.D31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020630233055.GC13204@refried.org> <20020630192220.N31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020701012458.GE13204@refried.org> Message-ID: <20020701033439.P31559@techmonkeys.org> > > > > http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-install-methods.en.html: > ^^^^^^ > ANCIENT! "stable" =) (Once again, what joe blow user would choose) > > Unfortunately users don't have time to learn something they'll probably > > never use again after the initial install, this isn't a learning curve, > > it's a brick wall when you can't even get the system installed. > > Never use again? *astonished look* You can use dselect any time you > want to install more software or do a complete upgrade. IIRC, you only > get dselect if you said you didn't want to use task select. 'probably never use again', I use apt for all my software and dist-upgrade needs. > > Nate -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Jul 1 10:12:29 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list, help with epplet In-Reply-To: <34319.65.25.236.180.1025499139.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> References: <34319.65.25.236.180.1025499139.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Message-ID: <20020701135719.GB4238@rtfm.sistina.com> On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 11:52:19PM -0500, Tracy McKibben wrote: >Hello, new to this list, playing around with Enlightenment. Trying to >configure the E-Biff epplet, but I'm not having much luck. I can't find >any man pages or other docs. The properties button on the epplet does >nothing more than launch Eterm. Any Enlightenment users here want to give >me some enlightenment as to what I'm doing wrong? I use enllightenment and have never liked the epplets. I prefer gkrellm. Everything is contained in one app (with plugins) and isn't subject to the wierdness that is epplets. Sometimes the session managment stuff doesn't work right and you'll end up with multiple version of the same epplet running. Also not all E themes support epplets (especially since not many people use them) I'm not even sure if there will be epplet support in e17. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020701/63c6cdfe/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Mon Jul 1 10:12:57 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020701033439.P31559@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <20020629165125.D31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020630233055.GC13204@refried.org> <20020630192220.N31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020701012458.GE13204@refried.org> <20020701033439.P31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020701135946.GC4238@rtfm.sistina.com> On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 03:34:39AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >> get dselect if you said you didn't want to use task select. > >'probably never use again', I use apt for all my software and dist-upgrade >needs. dselect rocks. I've never understood people who didn't like it. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020701/a48008c5/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jul 1 10:13:12 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mbox to MH email conversion In-Reply-To: <20020628114304.0079f9ce.kruc0030@tc.umn.edu> References: <1025289604.3d1cad841a0a4@webmail.andersonfam.org> <20020628114304.0079f9ce.kruc0030@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20020701141112.GB16385@wookimus.net> On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 11:43:04AM -0800, Seth C Kruckenberg wrote: > Does anyone know of a script or program that will parse mbox email > files to mh email files. I have found a bunch of perl scripts for mh > --> mbox but I need it to work the other way. > > I know that sylpheed and other mail programs have that functionality > built in but I just want that one little operation. Any ideas? Yes, install nmh, then use the inc command. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020701/5d5dc6d7/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jul 1 10:13:37 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Compose key In-Reply-To: <1025324155.10782.232.camel@3po.dhs.org> References: <20020628151552.GE26213@rtfm.sistina.com> <1025324155.10782.232.camel@3po.dhs.org> Message-ID: <20020701145005.GC16385@wookimus.net> Sparc keyboards, eh? Yeah, I'm familiar with them. Next question, does anyone really pay attention to keys they don't use? Honestly, unless you're bi/multilingual or have some other reason to use the compose key, it gets ignored as one of those "strange" keys on the "strange" Sparc, DEC, or WYSE keyboards. Now, speaking frankly about the layout of the Sparc keyboard w/the swapped capslock/control keys... Bad design decision, IMHO, but since people are used to it around here in the IMA, I sometimes have to deal with people's personal xmod setups where they've already done the swap. I don't mind working with these people, because they already have a greater knowledge base than the Windowites that come here and demand NT time. The greater the knowledge base, the less they ask stupid questions, and the happier we all are. If that wasn't a BOFH response, I don't know what is. Now, a Sparc keyboard layout doesn't bother me much with vi, but it's murder on your pinky with emacs. At least w/a STD 101/104 keyboard layout, you have two control keys to use, making emacs bearable. Now, if you want to talk about bad keyboards, try sitting at a WYSE terminal for a couple hours. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020701/4f23e217/attachment.pgp From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jul 1 10:13:51 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020630060931.I31559@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 06:09:31AM -0500 References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <20020629165125.D31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020630013930.A19395@mail.el-swifto.com> <20020630060931.I31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020701095414.B12920@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 06:09:31AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > [note: I'm talking about a 'net install for the people who either > don't have a CD-ROM drive on the system in question, don't have > a burner, or don't feel like downloading the massive amount of CDs > they don't need] If you're talking a net install, one CD is (more than) sufficient. Use the CD for a base install, then use apt to grab whatever else you want. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jul 1 10:14:29 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Debian versus Redhat/rpms, install of geda In-Reply-To: <20020630144826.K31559@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 02:48:26PM -0500 References: <20020630012317.A7201@duron.turboland.com> <20020630060404.H31559@techmonkeys.org> <3D1F59B5.1030200@ringworld.org> <20020630144826.K31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020701100228.C12920@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 02:48:26PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Eggdrop (a project I've been working on for years) isn't nearly a > 'corner application', yet stable still has 1.3.28 which is horribly > bug-ridden (I do mean horribly). I've been told that this is because > no further updates can be made to stable, yet these are remotely > exploitable bugs that can grant shell access. Go through the security team. Stable does accept security updates. (Of course, stable would then have 1.3.28-with-backported-security- fixes, not whatever your current version number is. And that is a Good Thing, as it minimizes the chance of introducing new bugs while fixing the old ones.) -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From sos at zjod.net Mon Jul 1 10:28:52 2002 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] less command wierdness. In-Reply-To: from "Christopher Gahlon" at Jun 30, 2002 11:20:19 PM Message-ID: <200207011522.g61FMfp15404@zjod.net> That's a function of the xterm terminfo setup file you're using. Try setting your terminal type to "xterms-sun" or "xterm-sun". -S Christopher Gahlon wrote: > > On the solaris boxen at work when I type: less filename > less will page through the file and when I find the help/info I want I > just hit q and get dumped back to a prompt with the iformation I was > looking for still displayed so I can use it. > > On all my Redhat 7.3 boxen when I type: less filename > it displays the info but when I hit q it clears the info and I'm looking > at my previous screen before typeing the less command. > > How do I get less to leave the info I was looking at on the screen so I > can use it? (This behavior also annoyingly occurs in man as it uses > less as the pager) > > Chris Gahlon > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jul 1 10:29:18 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Debian versus Redhat/rpms, install of geda In-Reply-To: <20020630144826.K31559@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020630012317.A7201@duron.turboland.com> <20020630060404.H31559@techmonkeys.org> <3D1F59B5.1030200@ringworld.org> <20020630144826.K31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020701152346.GD16385@wookimus.net> On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 02:48:26PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Eggdrop (a project I've been working on for years) isn't nearly a > 'corner application', yet stable still has 1.3.28 which is horribly > bug-ridden (I do mean horribly). I've been told that this is because > no further updates can be made to stable, yet these are remotely > exploitable bugs that can grant shell access. (and shell access to > every bot connected to that bot) I would argue that eggdrop is certainly a corner application, concerning only a few users. The results from the package popularity-contest[1] shows[2] that eggdrop has very few users: Package Vote Old Recent Unknown eggdrop 13 28 21 0 Granted, that's to say that of the people who install the popularity-contest package, 13 people use the package regularily, 28 people have installed the package but have not used the package recently, and 21 people have upgraded the package too recently to be considered valid stats. That's not a whole lot of people. I looked at the bugs database for Debian and have not seen any security level bugs being reported against the available versions (1.6.10-1 in sid, 1.6.8-2 in potato). In fact, I remember seeing eggdrop on the orphaned list not too long ago. The most recent bug that points to a new upstream version is #142075[3], but like most of these requests, it's severity is "wishlist", not "Important", "Grave", or "Security". Unless a bug makes it to the database, the package will be considered "free and clear" of security concern. Now, all of this info says basically a few things. 1) Eggdrop is not a commonly used package, statistically speaking in the context of current Debian users. 2) Eggdrop may be more popular than the package popularity-contest shows, with the more advanced users opting to install eggdrop from source. 3) eggdrop hasn't received the most attention from it's maintainer OR ITS USERS. Maintaining a package involves more than a dedicated maintainer. If you have issues with any of these observations about eggdrop and it's place in Debian, report bugs to the database or send email to the maintainer. If you want to be really 31337, consider convincing the upstream maintainers to create *.deb snapshots from their CVS and stable repositories, taking the workload off the "maintainer" and putting it in the hands of those people who really want to see the software used. > Perhaps the people responsible for allowing people to create the > packages should make sure the people are going to continue maintaining > them, instead of doing it a few times a year to keep their name in it. See my suggestion above. > As I said, I run debian on my laptop because the only programs I run > on the laptop are dhcpcd, kismet, prismstumber, and ssh. For any > system that I use as a desktop debian just doesn't cut it. > > Hopefully the above changes will come about, I'd be willing to take > another look at it as a desktop distribution. Everyone has their own expectations and needs. Debian works very well as a Desktop Distribution at the IMA, thank you very much. As my personal distribution of choice, it works fine on the Desktop. Still, I might be what you'd consider a low-maintenance type of power user. References ---------- 1. http://people.debian.org/~apenwarr/popcon/ 2. http://people.debian.org/~apenwarr/popcon/results.net.html 3. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=142075&repeatmerged=yes -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020701/011ed9b6/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jul 1 10:55:48 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list, help with epplet In-Reply-To: <34319.65.25.236.180.1025499139.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> References: <34319.65.25.236.180.1025499139.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Message-ID: <20020701153458.GE16385@wookimus.net> Can't help you out with your Enlightenment problems, but I'd like to make a request. Please limit your .signature to a mere six lines or less. Since the list server also tacks on it's unsubscribe info signature (5 lines), it gets a little overwhelming. Thanks! -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020701/802d7b22/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jul 1 11:34:29 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020629165125.D31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > dselect, *gag* =) heh, try aptitude or just use apt-get. yeah, i can't stand dselect either. :) > Some people say you should have to configure everything on your own, > but if you're of that school of thought, you're already spending your > time running something like Debian or Slackware, personally I don't > have the time to spend mucking around with things that I already know > how to configure when the distro can do it for me (ie, kudzu). debian doesn't take long to configure at all, at least once you're used to it. i can get a debian box up quicker than a redhat box, at least talking about an install from scratch.. 'course, rh has kickstart built in, which is cool.. i've heard there are a few debian equivilents, but i haven't had time to play with any of them. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jul 1 11:35:31 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020630060931.I31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > [note: I'm talking about a 'net install for the people who either > don't have a CD-ROM drive on the system in question, don't have a > burner, or don't feel like downloading the massive amount of CDs they > don't need] > > What do you think those 6(?) floppies are? Yes, I eventually used toms > root-boot to get the system up (1 floppy!) then wget'd the base tgz > from there, but it was a non-standard and non-supported method of > running the install. get the 'compact' disks.. install on just about any box, and only 4 floppies. :) or go download that cd boot method, which puts all the install floppies on 1 bootable cd (about a 30mb download).. i don't remember the url off hand, but freshmeat has it. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Jul 1 11:35:45 2002 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP References: <20020630214944.ED27660366@friday.localdomain.fake> Message-ID: <3D207F98.E9B674E1@structural-wood.com> I believe the DHCP client also sets up name resolution and default routes. Are these being set correctly when you are manually configuring things? Jay Kline wrote: > > On Sunday 30 June 2002 11:03 am, ccox@linuxsnob.com wrote: > > well, I'm thinking that's might be an honest bug. have you had > > any other distros on that hardware?, or another nic you could configure to > > verify whether or not the problem is a part of the nic driver? > > Being a laptop, I dont have any other hardware to try. Nor do I want to just > start installing whatever on it. It is a Xrocom 10/100 + Modem (from Dell). > > > I just had another thought, is that nic a pcmcia device? if it > > is, you might need to do a restart of some of the pcmcia modules to get it > > to kick over. > > Hmm.. Interesting thought. I will have to give that a try next time. But I > seem to remember having this same problem on a desktop pc at work once. I > dont recall what the solution there was. > > > I'm just shooting from the hip, I don't have 7.3 on anything as of > > yet. so if anyone else can shed some light on this, you might be more help > > than me at this point. > > > > Does anyone run a version of the ISC DHCP client on a network without a DHCP > server? (like a roaming laptop) If there is a version that does work, I may > just track down that version and see if it makes a difference. > > Jay From list at slushpupie.com Mon Jul 1 12:32:16 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP In-Reply-To: <3D207F98.E9B674E1@structural-wood.com> References: <20020630214944.ED27660366@friday.localdomain.fake> <3D207F98.E9B674E1@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <200207011212.07517.list@slushpupie.com> Yes, the first test I make is if I can ping my gateway (by IP, not name) and that fails. I know the server is up, and I know the cables are good. It seems to be another issue. Jay On Monday 01 July 2002 11:13 am, Kent Schumacher wrote: > I believe the DHCP client also sets up name resolution and default routes. > Are these being set correctly when you are manually configuring things? > > Jay Kline wrote: > > On Sunday 30 June 2002 11:03 am, ccox@linuxsnob.com wrote: > > > well, I'm thinking that's might be an honest bug. have you had > > > any other distros on that hardware?, or another nic you could configure > > > to verify whether or not the problem is a part of the nic driver? > > > > Being a laptop, I dont have any other hardware to try. Nor do I want to > > just start installing whatever on it. It is a Xrocom 10/100 + Modem (from > > Dell). > > > > > I just had another thought, is that nic a pcmcia device? if it > > > is, you might need to do a restart of some of the pcmcia modules to get > > > it to kick over. > > > > Hmm.. Interesting thought. I will have to give that a try next time. > > But I seem to remember having this same problem on a desktop pc at work > > once. I dont recall what the solution there was. > > > > > I'm just shooting from the hip, I don't have 7.3 on anything as > > > of yet. so if anyone else can shed some light on this, you might be > > > more help than me at this point. > > > > Does anyone run a version of the ISC DHCP client on a network without a > > DHCP server? (like a roaming laptop) If there is a version that does > > work, I may just track down that version and see if it makes a > > difference. > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bneigebauer at attbi.com Mon Jul 1 13:25:21 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP In-Reply-To: <200207011212.07517.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: You still might not even be able to ping your gateway if your ip route list is messed up. Example, I have a machine at 192.168.98.1 and one at 192.168.98.14. There is an entry in my ip route table that is: 192.168.98.0/24 dev eth1 scope link which basically says, go through dev eth1 for anything bound for that network. If I remove it, I can no longer ping my 192.168.98.14 address from 192.168.98.1 It doesn't know where it needs to go. Can you post the result from an ip route list? [bob@linuxgateway /]@ip route -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Kline Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:12 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP Yes, the first test I make is if I can ping my gateway (by IP, not name) and that fails. I know the server is up, and I know the cables are good. It seems to be another issue. Jay On Monday 01 July 2002 11:13 am, Kent Schumacher wrote: > I believe the DHCP client also sets up name resolution and default routes. > Are these being set correctly when you are manually configuring things? > > Jay Kline wrote: > > On Sunday 30 June 2002 11:03 am, ccox@linuxsnob.com wrote: > > > well, I'm thinking that's might be an honest bug. have you had > > > any other distros on that hardware?, or another nic you could configure > > > to verify whether or not the problem is a part of the nic driver? > > > > Being a laptop, I dont have any other hardware to try. Nor do I want to > > just start installing whatever on it. It is a Xrocom 10/100 + Modem (from > > Dell). > > > > > I just had another thought, is that nic a pcmcia device? if it > > > is, you might need to do a restart of some of the pcmcia modules to get > > > it to kick over. > > > > Hmm.. Interesting thought. I will have to give that a try next time. > > But I seem to remember having this same problem on a desktop pc at work > > once. I dont recall what the solution there was. > > > > > I'm just shooting from the hip, I don't have 7.3 on anything as > > > of yet. so if anyone else can shed some light on this, you might be > > > more help than me at this point. > > > > Does anyone run a version of the ISC DHCP client on a network without a > > DHCP server? (like a roaming laptop) If there is a version that does > > work, I may just track down that version and see if it makes a > > difference. > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002 From list at slushpupie.com Mon Jul 1 14:29:03 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200207011423.12023.list@slushpupie.com> Ok, here is an example of how this is working- I turn on my computer on a network that has no DHCP server The DHCP request fails on boot, so eth0 is not set up. I manually set eth0 with the correct ip, netmask, and broadcast. I set up routing correctly. Then, I try and ping the gateway. Nothing. I try and ping the other computers on the network that I know are up. Nothing. So I save the configuration using netconf (using the exact same settings I just did manually) and go to init level 1, then back to init 5, and it magicly works. This seems somewhat like a bug, and knowing RedHats reputation with pump, they may have done something strange with ISC's client. So, my question is not "how do I set an ip address manually" its "what is dhcpcd doing so that I cannot set an ip address manually" Jay On Monday 01 July 2002 1:16 pm, Ben Neigebauer wrote: > You still might not even be able to ping your gateway if your ip route list > is messed up. > > Example, > > I have a machine at 192.168.98.1 and one at 192.168.98.14. > > There is an entry in my ip route table that is: > > 192.168.98.0/24 dev eth1 scope link > > which basically says, go through dev eth1 for anything bound for that > network. > > If I remove it, I can no longer ping my 192.168.98.14 address from > 192.168.98.1 > It doesn't know where it needs to go. > > Can you post the result from an ip route list? > > [bob@linuxgateway /]@ip route > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Kline > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:12 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP > > > Yes, the first test I make is if I can ping my gateway (by IP, not name) > and that fails. I know the server is up, and I know the cables are good. > It seems to be another issue. > > Jay > > On Monday 01 July 2002 11:13 am, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > I believe the DHCP client also sets up name resolution and default > > routes. Are these being set correctly when you are manually configuring > > things? > > > > Jay Kline wrote: > > > On Sunday 30 June 2002 11:03 am, ccox@linuxsnob.com wrote: > > > > well, I'm thinking that's might be an honest bug. have you had > > > > any other distros on that hardware?, or another nic you could > > configure > > > > > to verify whether or not the problem is a part of the nic driver? > > > > > > Being a laptop, I dont have any other hardware to try. Nor do I want > > > to just start installing whatever on it. It is a Xrocom 10/100 + Modem > > (from > > > > Dell). > > > > > > > I just had another thought, is that nic a pcmcia device? if it > > > > is, you might need to do a restart of some of the pcmcia modules to > > get > > > > > it to kick over. > > > > > > Hmm.. Interesting thought. I will have to give that a try next time. > > > But I seem to remember having this same problem on a desktop pc at work > > > once. I dont recall what the solution there was. > > > > > > > I'm just shooting from the hip, I don't have 7.3 on anything as > > > > of yet. so if anyone else can shed some light on this, you might be > > > > more help than me at this point. > > > > > > Does anyone run a version of the ISC DHCP client on a network without a > > > DHCP server? (like a roaming laptop) If there is a version that does > > > work, I may just track down that version and see if it makes a > > > difference. > > > > > > Jay > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Jul 1 15:04:30 2002 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP References: <200207011423.12023.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <3D20B165.5FE3623@structural-wood.com> When you do the init level switch you rerun the network initialization script (/etc/rc.d/init.d/network). This does a whole bunch of things including resetting routes, etc... Try running /etc/rc.d/init.d/network with a restart argument - i.e. /etc/rc.d/init.d/network restart after you've made your changes. Jay Kline wrote: > > Ok, here is an example of how this is working- > > I turn on my computer on a network that has no DHCP server > The DHCP request fails on boot, so eth0 is not set up. I manually set eth0 > with the correct ip, netmask, and broadcast. I set up routing correctly. > Then, I try and ping the gateway. Nothing. I try and ping the other > computers on the network that I know are up. Nothing. So I save the > configuration using netconf (using the exact same settings I just did > manually) and go to init level 1, then back to init 5, and it magicly works. > This seems somewhat like a bug, and knowing RedHats reputation with pump, > they may have done something strange with ISC's client. So, my question is > not "how do I set an ip address manually" its "what is dhcpcd doing so that I > cannot set an ip address manually" > > Jay > > On Monday 01 July 2002 1:16 pm, Ben Neigebauer wrote: > > You still might not even be able to ping your gateway if your ip route list > > is messed up. > > > > Example, > > > > I have a machine at 192.168.98.1 and one at 192.168.98.14. > > > > There is an entry in my ip route table that is: > > > > 192.168.98.0/24 dev eth1 scope link > > > > which basically says, go through dev eth1 for anything bound for that > > network. > > > > If I remove it, I can no longer ping my 192.168.98.14 address from > > 192.168.98.1 > > It doesn't know where it needs to go. > > > > Can you post the result from an ip route list? > > > > [bob@linuxgateway /]@ip route > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Kline > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:12 PM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP > > > > > > Yes, the first test I make is if I can ping my gateway (by IP, not name) > > and that fails. I know the server is up, and I know the cables are good. > > It seems to be another issue. > > > > Jay > > > > On Monday 01 July 2002 11:13 am, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > > I believe the DHCP client also sets up name resolution and default > > > routes. Are these being set correctly when you are manually configuring > > > things? > > > > > > Jay Kline wrote: > > > > On Sunday 30 June 2002 11:03 am, ccox@linuxsnob.com wrote: > > > > > well, I'm thinking that's might be an honest bug. have you had > > > > > any other distros on that hardware?, or another nic you could > > > > configure > > > > > > > to verify whether or not the problem is a part of the nic driver? > > > > > > > > Being a laptop, I dont have any other hardware to try. Nor do I want > > > > to just start installing whatever on it. It is a Xrocom 10/100 + Modem > > > > (from > > > > > > Dell). > > > > > > > > > I just had another thought, is that nic a pcmcia device? if it > > > > > is, you might need to do a restart of some of the pcmcia modules to > > > > get > > > > > > > it to kick over. > > > > > > > > Hmm.. Interesting thought. I will have to give that a try next time. > > > > But I seem to remember having this same problem on a desktop pc at work > > > > once. I dont recall what the solution there was. > > > > > > > > > I'm just shooting from the hip, I don't have 7.3 on anything as > > > > > of yet. so if anyone else can shed some light on this, you might be > > > > > more help than me at this point. > > > > > > > > Does anyone run a version of the ISC DHCP client on a network without a > > > > DHCP server? (like a roaming laptop) If there is a version that does > > > > work, I may just track down that version and see if it makes a > > > > difference. > > > > > > > > Jay From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jul 1 15:35:29 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP In-Reply-To: <200207011423.12023.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Jay Kline wrote: > I turn on my computer on a network that has no DHCP server The DHCP > request fails on boot, so eth0 is not set up. I manually set eth0 with > the correct ip, netmask, and broadcast. I set up routing correctly. > Then, I try and ping the gateway. Nothing. I try and ping the other > computers on the network that I know are up. Nothing. So I save the > configuration using netconf (using the exact same settings I just did > manually) and go to init level 1, then back to init 5, and it magicly > works. This seems somewhat like a bug, and knowing RedHats reputation > with pump, they may have done something strange with ISC's client. > So, my question is not "how do I set an ip address manually" its "what > is dhcpcd doing so that I cannot set an ip address manually" Works for me. On a 7.3 box with a Tulip card, I yanked the network cable, booted it into single user, and ran 'ifup eth0'. It failed, of course. I plugged the cable back in, assigned an ip with ifconfig, and it just worked(tm). -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jul 1 18:31:19 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network troubleshooting Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887D46@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Use lcrzoex. It lets you make custom packets and do all sorts of other network sorcery. As far as automatically firing out those packets when certain traffic is received, I couldn't tell you. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: steve ulrich [mailto:sulrich@botwerks.org] > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 9:42 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Network troubleshooting > > > > if you're looking to spoof a dhcp session you might want to > just hack a dhcp server to behave appropriately. on freebsd > you can open a bpf device and see what's coming down the > line. this is in fact how the dhcp server work iirc - setting > up a dhcp packet filter and handling the events appropriately. > > when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Jun 30, 2002), > twakefield@stcloudstate.edu was madly tapping out: > > To troubleshoot a network problem, I want to transmit an Ethernet > > packet after receiving a specific packet. Basically I will be > > simulating a DHCP transaction. The transmitted packet will > be edited > > versions of a captured packet. What is the easiest way to do this? > > > > -- > steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org > PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ccox at linuxsnob.com Mon Jul 1 19:06:27 2002 From: ccox at linuxsnob.com (ccox@linuxsnob.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH7.3 and DHCP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, Nate Carlson wrote: > > Works for me. > > On a 7.3 box with a Tulip card, I yanked the network cable, booted it into > single user, and ran 'ifup eth0'. It failed, of course. I plugged the > cable back in, assigned an ip with ifconfig, and it just worked(tm). So, a little more info here would be good, I'm guessing that tulip card isn't a pcmcia device, so next place to look would be restarting some of those pesky pcmcia services / modules in Jay's case. -- LINUX, because rebooting is for adding hardware! www.linuxsnob.com <-- a little linux humor, and a very little support. From chrome at real-time.com Mon Jul 1 22:47:08 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Compose key In-Reply-To: ; from dd-b@dd-b.net on Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 08:55:19PM -0500 References: <15641.52499.484490.702832@tsathoggua.mydomain> <20020626150041.GC9443@wookimus.net> <20020626103446.Y28571@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020701223556.B27342@real-time.com> On Wed, Jun 26, 2002 at 08:55:19PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: > > > > WTF is a compose key? > > > > look at an honest-to-God DEC VT dumbterm, and you'll see a 'compose' key on > > it. other dumbterms probably have them as well. > > As Mr. Goldman implies, it's used for composing foreign characters like the > > Spanish characters that have the ~ over them, and such like. > > Well, maybe on the new enough ones. Not on any of the ones I remember > working with, and not on the two in the next room. (Did it come in > with the VT220 series, in which case I actually did have one on my > desk in Marlboro briefly, or was it later, in which case I really > never did see it?) I never sat in front of vt102 or vt220 terms enough to learn any differences between them and the vt420s I used to live in front of. my wyse 185 has a compose key as well. I never got ahold of any of the vt420s when they got rid of them at Winona State. :( On the other tentacle, I *did* find a DEC PS/2 keyboard at a customer site, that's pretty much *exactly* the same as the vt420 keyboard. :) :) :) I was so excited with joy at merely the sight of such a thing, that the customer gave it to me. :) :) :) In retrospect, the keys are a bit mushy compared to my mid-80s IBM Type-Ms; but for nostalgia it's a great thing. :) :) :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Mon Jul 1 23:09:36 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 07:06:59PM -0500 References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-3.1-7.i386.rpm > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-c++-3.1-7.i386.rpm > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-g77-3.1-7.i386.rpm > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-gnat-3.1-7.i386.rpm > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-java-3.1-7.i386.rpm > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-objc-3.1-7.i386.rpm good riddance to the 'gcc-2.96' lunacy. One of the things I *really* don't like about RH is their high-handedness about some things... like using their own compiler and making a lot of people work to become compatible with *them*, rather than the other way around. (all the patches they apply to the kernel is another one). any way you cut it, RedHat is still a commercial entity... on the upside, this means they can pay a bunch of people to do quality control. on the downside, they don't have the customer's interests at heart, as much as something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Jul 1 23:28:24 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail Message-ID: <1781.192.168.70.102.1025583650.squirrel@www.northlans.com> I just recently did an install of sendmail 8.11.6 on RedHat 7.3. Email works fine, but when I telnet to the server address on port 25 I see: 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Sendmail ... Note the localhost.localdomain, on my other sendmail server I see the machines hostname. I have already checked the etc/sysconfig/network file and made sure that the setting HOSTNAME= is correct. Has anyone with sendmail experience seen this before and know how to correct it? Thanks Jim Streit From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Jul 2 00:06:02 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sendmail In-Reply-To: <1781.192.168.70.102.1025583650.squirrel@www.northlans.com> References: <1781.192.168.70.102.1025583650.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Message-ID: <1938.192.168.70.102.1025585585.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Never mind, my friend just told me how to correct it. Apparently in you just have something like HOSTNAME=joe then sendmail uses localhost.localdomain, but if you change HOSTNAME=joe.somedomain.org, then sendmail will use the joe.somedomain.org hostname. Did that make sense or have I stayed up too late again tonight and am just rambling ... Jim Streit > I just recently did an install of sendmail 8.11.6 on > RedHat 7.3. Email works fine, but when I telnet to the > server address on port 25 I see: > > 220 localhost.localdomain ESMTP Sendmail ... > > Note the localhost.localdomain, on my other sendmail > server I see the machines hostname. I have already > checked the etc/sysconfig/network file and made sure > that the setting HOSTNAME= is correct. > > Has anyone with sendmail experience seen this before and > know how to correct it? > > Thanks > Jim Streit > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 2 00:51:45 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com>; from chrome@real-time.com on Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 10:50:30PM -0500 References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 10:50:30PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-c++-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-g77-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-gnat-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-java-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-objc-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > good riddance to the 'gcc-2.96' lunacy. One of the things I *really* don't > like about RH is their high-handedness about some things... like using their > own compiler and making a lot of people work to become compatible with > *them*, rather than the other way around. I've never had a problem with it, except for mplayer bitching to no end about it, after removing the specific anti-redhat code from configure it worked absolutely fine. > (all the patches they apply to the > kernel is another one). A lot of distributions, including mandrake, debian, suse, etc. add patches to the kernel to fix bugs here and there (these eventually make it into the mainstream kernel. > > any way you cut it, RedHat is still a commercial entity... on the upside, > this means they can pay a bunch of people to do quality control. on the > downside, they don't have the customer's interests at heart, as much as > something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't > ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). I think they have plenty of customer interest at heart, considering the number of people using it they're obviously doing something right. They've got a very nice installer, things like kudzu to relieve a lot of the pain involved in installing new hardware, and all the GUI tools needed to configure the system (Like SuSE or Mandrake) maybe Debian has these things too, I haven't bothered to use a GUI setup under debian lately. Perhaps I'll try it in vmware tonight. > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 2 01:25:24 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wwwkeys.us.pgp.net busted? Message-ID: <20020702012026.A19177@real-time.com> % gpg --send-keys tanner@real-time.com gpg: error sending to `wwwkeys.us.pgp.net': eof Anyone else having problems sending keys? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 2 02:29:45 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wwwkeys.us.pgp.net busted? In-Reply-To: <20020702012026.A19177@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 01:20:26AM -0500 References: <20020702012026.A19177@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020702020755.D31559@techmonkeys.org> [poptix@techmonkeys(~/lindrop/scripts)]: gpg --send-keys poptix@poptix.net gpg: Warning: using insecure memory! gpg: success sending to `wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net' (status=200) [poptix@techmonkeys(~/lindrop/scripts)]: gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.us.pgp.net --send-keys poptix@poptix.net gpg: Warning: using insecure memory! gpg: success sending to `wwwkeys.us.pgp.net' (status=200) On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 01:20:26AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > % gpg --send-keys tanner@real-time.com > gpg: error sending to `wwwkeys.us.pgp.net': eof > > Anyone else having problems sending keys? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Jul 2 08:31:55 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020702132730.GA23259@wookimus.net> On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 12:50:56AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > has these things too, I haven't bothered to use a GUI setup under > debian lately. Perhaps I'll try it in vmware tonight. Use the Progeny installer (pgi)[1] for woody[2]. References ---------- 1. http://hackers.progeny.com/pgi 2. http://www.debian.org/ -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020702/33cbf8b7/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Tue Jul 2 08:51:18 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020702134807.GA760@iucha.net> On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 10:50:30PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-c++-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-g77-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-gnat-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-java-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > ./RedHat/RPMS/gcc-objc-3.1-7.i386.rpm > > good riddance to the 'gcc-2.96' lunacy. One of the things I *really* don't > like about RH is their high-handedness about some things... like using their > own compiler and making a lot of people work to become compatible with > *them*, rather than the other way around. (all the patches they apply to the > kernel is another one). We should thank them to push glibc2, linux-2.2, gtk/gnome and gcc-3.0 to widespread adoption. Without their QA effort and boldness to add something risky to their .0 releases, GNU/Linux would be much less advanced. They are paying Alan Cox and countless others to hack full-time. Show me another Linux company that took the same risks, or gave back so much to the community. > any way you cut it, RedHat is still a commercial entity... on the upside, > this means they can pay a bunch of people to do quality control. on the > downside, they don't have the customer's interests at heart, ... those interests being...? (libc5, linux-2.0 and fwvm?) > as much as > something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't > ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). ... which is giving away .rpms and .isos and charging for support. florin, a former happy RedHat user and now a happy Debian user who switched because he is a "new-kernel/new-package" junkie and RedHat wasn't moving as fast as Debian/Testing. -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020702/049b85b1/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jul 2 09:33:11 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020702141841.GA4218@rtfm.sistina.com> On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 10:50:30PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: >good riddance to the 'gcc-2.96' lunacy. One of the things I *really* don't >like about RH is their high-handedness about some things... like using their >own compiler and making a lot of people work to become compatible with >*them*, rather than the other way around. (all the patches they apply to the >kernel is another one). > >any way you cut it, RedHat is still a commercial entity... on the upside, >this means they can pay a bunch of people to do quality control. on the >downside, they don't have the customer's interests at heart, as much as >something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't >ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). If you think the debian developers give a flying fsck what the users think you're on crack. If you think redhat does NOT give a flying fsck what thier users think, you're on crack. So what if redhat patches thier kernels, point your favorite ftp client at one of the kernel.org mirrors and have at it. When it all comes right down to it, redhat DOES pay people to do quality control and it shows. And for the record I've been using gcc-3.1 for quite a while and it's great (with the notable exception of some symbol munging which can cause problems if you have binary only stuff *jdk* that you wish to work with stuff you built from source *mozilla*) Cut redhat some slack, they're just trying to make a buck, they've given as much to the opensores community as they've taken. All in all, thier distro is the only one I truly trust on my servers (except for debian stable which is too old in most cases for what we need) though I'm a touch miffed that there's no recent ssh packages. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020702/1d5a1f88/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jul 2 09:34:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020702142241.GB4218@rtfm.sistina.com> On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 12:50:56AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > >I've never had a problem with it, except for mplayer bitching to no end about >it, after removing the specific anti-redhat code from configure it worked >absolutely fine. Actually it's always been an option to ./configure. >> (all the patches they apply to the >> kernel is another one). > >A lot of distributions, including mandrake, debian, suse, etc. add patches >to the kernel to fix bugs here and there (these eventually make it into >the mainstream kernel. That doesn't make it right. Try supporting that stuff as a kernel code contributor. Our guys have no end of problems building patches for those kernels (both for LVM and for our "evil" GFS). The tough thing is that some customers refuse to run a kernel.org kernel :-( I'm sure that will get even worse once redhat goes full boar on thier oracle support, our customers will demand even further for that support. > >> >> any way you cut it, RedHat is still a commercial entity... on the upside, >> this means they can pay a bunch of people to do quality control. on the >> downside, they don't have the customer's interests at heart, as much as >> something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't >> ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). > >I think they have plenty of customer interest at heart, considering the >number of people using it they're obviously doing something right. Hey! WTF! We aggree on something! Knock it off! > >They've got a very nice installer, things like kudzu to relieve a lot >of the pain involved in installing new hardware, and all the GUI tools >needed to configure the system (Like SuSE or Mandrake) maybe Debian >has these things too, I haven't bothered to use a GUI setup under >debian lately. Perhaps I'll try it in vmware tonight. Only thing I tire of about debians install is that there's questions to answer for nearly every package. I'd rather they just went with defaults, publish them in the changes file and be done with it. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020702/60c2a8a2/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jul 2 10:05:57 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020702141841.GA4218@rtfm.sistina.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > All in all, thier distro is the only one I truly trust on my servers > though I'm a touch miffed that there's no recent ssh packages. (unless it's a .0 or .1 release.. *grin*) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Jul 2 10:40:25 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: <20020702142241.GB4218@rtfm.sistina.com> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020702142241.GB4218@rtfm.sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 09:22:41AM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Only thing I tire of about debians install is that there's questions > to answer for nearly every package. I'd rather they just went with > defaults, publish them in the changes file and be done with it. When you install debconf, tell it 1. To operate in non-interactive mode 2. Email you notices above (choose level of question) Most packages are using debconf now-a-days, with a few rogue apps still using their home-cooked config scripts. By woody+1 release, I'm hoping to get rid of all of the latter. FAI, as a project, has unearthed many problems with trying an unattended installation. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020702/5f28e48f/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jul 2 11:37:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020702142241.GB4218@rtfm.sistina.com> <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020702162244.GB5638@rtfm.sistina.com> On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 10:29:49AM -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: >On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 09:22:41AM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: >> Only thing I tire of about debians install is that there's questions >> to answer for nearly every package. I'd rather they just went with >> defaults, publish them in the changes file and be done with it. > >When you install debconf, tell it > > 1. To operate in non-interactive mode > 2. Email you notices above (choose level of question) Thanks for the tip Chad. We need to have lunch one of these days. Perhaps you and I and Gabe and I suppose that bastard Kochie should do that soon eh? > >Most packages are using debconf now-a-days, with a few rogue apps still >using their home-cooked config scripts. By woody+1 release, I'm hoping >to get rid of all of the latter. FAI, as a project, has unearthed many >problems with trying an unattended installation. > >-- >Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie >http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020702/ba95bab5/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 2 14:47:23 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com>; from sfertch@real-time.com on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 10:58:44PM -0500 References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 10:58:44PM -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote: > As to the install, it's been a while so I don't recall the specifics. > Being presented with about 30 options of drivers, cards, etc, hmmm... I personally fail to find debian particularly hard to install. I guess it probably doesn't choose your video card and auto-configure 3D accelleration and all that other crap but... *I don't want it to.* what debian *doesn't* do, is install >1GB of packages just to build a base system (see redhat). neither does it muck around with packages, adding its own extensions, hacks and patches (at least not as many as RH does). and the nicest thing about it: *you only have to install it once*. after that, just apt-get upgrade for the rest of your life. I'll grant that RedHat 7.3 is probably a better choice for the newbie; partly because it configures for the hardware pretty well; mostly because it *does* give you all those extra packages... gives people a chance to learn what packages they want/need/use. after that, they can install a base debian system, and apt-get install packages as needed. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From kbongers at infinetivity.com Tue Jul 2 14:49:09 2002 From: kbongers at infinetivity.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network troubleshooting In-Reply-To: ; from twakefield@stcloudstate.edu on Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 06:37:32PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020702124529.A25145@localhost.localdomain> If you can't find anything, I wrote a small packet sniffing program(c code, linux only, uses raw sockets) that you could tweak to do this. wget http://www.turbobit.com/software/snif-0.1.11.tgz Karl. On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 06:37:32PM -0500, twakefield@stcloudstate.edu wrote: > To troubleshoot a network problem, I want to transmit an Ethernet > packet after receiving a specific packet. Basically I will be > simulating a DHCP transaction. The transmitted packet will > be edited versions of a captured packet. What is the easiest way > to do this? > > Thanks > > Thad Wakefield Phone: 320-255-4764 > Network Specialist Fax: 320-255-4778 > St Cloud State University > 720 4th Av S MC108 > St Cloud, MN 56301 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Tue Jul 2 14:55:27 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list, help with epplet In-Reply-To: <20020701135719.GB4238@rtfm.sistina.com> References: <34319.65.25.236.180.1025499139.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> <20020701135719.GB4238@rtfm.sistina.com> Message-ID: <50482.63.91.48.130.1025635897.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Ben Lutgens said: > I use enllightenment and have never liked the epplets. I prefer gkrellm. > Everything is contained in one app (with plugins) and isn't subject to > the wierdness that is epplets. Sometimes the session managment stuff > doesn't work right and you'll end up with multiple version of the same > epplet running. Also not all E themes support epplets (especially since > not many people use them) I'm not even sure if there will be epplet > support in e17. Thanks, hadn't seen gkrellm before, looks promising. I'll install it tonight and have a look... -- |::::######## |::::######## Tracy McKibben |::::######## AIM: tmckibben2002 |############ tracy@mckibben.d2g.com |############ http://mckibben.d2g.com |############ Currently 83?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 87?F From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Tue Jul 2 15:36:54 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list, help with epplet Message-ID: <0000339502375c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> > Currently 83?F in Eden Prairie, MN, > but it feels like 87?F Currently 85 in Vadnais Heights, MN, but it feels like $hit IPC MMII From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Jul 2 22:46:44 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020702220614.3528d61e.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 12:20:32 -0500 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > hmmm... I personally fail to find debian particularly hard to install. > I guess it probably doesn't choose your video card and auto-configure > 3D accelleration and all that other crap but... > > *I don't want it to.* > Nor do I. Again, I prefer Slack as my distro of choice. I like to configure everything, choose my video/sound/etc cards and go from there. Slack's install is rather plain-jane and I like it that way. Not a lot of questions, just a straight-forward jump into the install. Unfortunately, I'm severly lacking in time to configure it the way I want to learn how to do it (just got off an 88 hour work week and it's not getting any better). At least I'm working... > what debian *doesn't* do, is install >1GB of packages just to build a > base system (see redhat). neither does it muck around with packages, > adding its own extensions, hacks and patches (at least not as many as > RH does). and the nicest thing about it: > Exactly why I like Slackware. > *you only have to install it once*. after that, just apt-get upgrade > for the rest of your life. > There was a package that someone wrote to do this semi-automatically, but I haven't been able to find it again. Again, lack of time. > I'll grant that RedHat 7.3 is probably a better choice for the newbie; > partly because it configures for the hardware pretty well; mostly > because it*does* give you all those extra packages... gives people a > chance to learn what packages they want/need/use. > True, but it's also in direct competition with Mandrake, SuSe and Caldera on this. > after that, they can install a base debian system, and apt-get install > packages as needed. > Or Slack =) -- Shawn sfertch@real-time.com Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, 2002) for Multiple Sclerosis: https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 2 23:50:32 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 12:50:56AM -0500 References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020702234021.B32320@real-time.com> sorry about the length of this rant. don't get me wrong, I think that most distibutions have some set of users, for whom they are the best distro. I'm not saying that Debian is faultless (it has a *lot* of failings), nor that RedHat is evil (I still recommend it as a newbie distro). On the whole, I think we're far more in agreement than disagreement... it's just the little quibbles that lead to rambles like this. :) On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 12:50:56AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 10:50:30PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > good riddance to the 'gcc-2.96' lunacy. One of the things I *really* don't > > like about RH is their high-handedness about some things... like using their > > own compiler and making a lot of people work to become compatible with > > *them*, rather than the other way around. > > I've never had a problem with it, except for mplayer bitching to no end about > it, after removing the specific anti-redhat code from configure it worked > absolutely fine. I think the fact that even the GCC people condemned it, is a good indication of the quality of the idea. I know there were some good reasons for it. I've read Alan Cox's reasoning (they needed improvements that weren't forthcoming quickly enough), and I can't gainsay that he has some good points. the fact that they went off to 'hoe their own row', where no one else did, means they might not have made the wisest decision, tho. > > (all the patches they apply to the > > kernel is another one). > > A lot of distributions, including mandrake, debian, suse, etc. add patches > to the kernel to fix bugs here and there (these eventually make it into > the mainstream kernel. but 1000+ patches? like Ben said, they make for a lot of headaches for a lot of people. I sympathize completely with his company's position as kernel developers, having to support kernels from various distros, as well as the stock one. I have to say that I've found the Redhat-patched kernels to be less reliable than ones built from source (that may be a perception, I can't point to any hard facts, since kernel problems are so few and far between under any circumstances). if you say "build from source then", I'll mention that I tried building a 2.4.18 kernel and using it in a RH7.2 installation; and found that NFS and sound didn't work right (using an updated config from one that had worked fine under 2.2.20). went to a Rawhide 2.4.18 kernel, and everything worked properly again. YMMV, it's possible that I did something wrong. > > any way you cut it, RedHat is still a commercial entity... on the upside, > > this means they can pay a bunch of people to do quality control. on the > > downside, they don't have the customer's interests at heart, as much as > > something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't > > ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). > > I think they have plenty of customer interest at heart, considering the > number of people using it they're obviously doing something right. by that logic, Microsoft could be said to have plenty of the customer's interests at heart, and I don't think you'd find many people who agree with that. > They've got a very nice installer, the GUI one has gotten substantially better. it's actually about as good as the text one now. (the RH6.1 GUI installer was *vile*). I don't think Debian's installer is at all bad, tho. it's very comparable RH5.x's installer, and as a rank newbie I didn't have problems with RH5.1's installer. > things like kudzu to relieve a lot > of the pain involved in installing new hardware, it's got its good points. can't gainsay that. I personally hate it, because it wastes my time at boot-up, and I mistrust any auto-config tool (bad experiences from my M$ days). that's just my take on it tho, and you're free to ignore it. :) > and all the GUI tools > needed to configure the system (Like SuSE or Mandrake) maybe Debian > has these things too, I haven't bothered to use a GUI setup under > debian lately. Perhaps I'll try it in vmware tonight. seems that Debian tends to configure things on a package-by package basis, rather than have a centralized tool to configure things. I think RH's linuxconf was actually a halfway decent tool; aside from its occasionally non-intuitive interface. rather than ramble off here, I'll leave my comments on user interface design for another post. On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 08:48:07AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > We should thank them to push glibc2, linux-2.2, gtk/gnome and gcc-3.0 to > widespread adoption. I think Debian does as much of that as anything. Debian Unstable tends to have that stuff long before RH does. (for that matter, before anyone else does). > They are paying Alan Cox and countless others to hack full-time. can't gainsay that. this is one of the things that makes them fall short of being another M$. (unlike Caldera....) > Show me another Linux company that took the same risks, or gave back so > much to the community. so far they've been a pretty benevolent 'dominant entity'. I just don't trust that behavior to continue, because there aren't powerful enough incentives for it. :) > > something like the Debian Project does. (and it shows. this is why RH won't > > ship apt4rpm anytime soon... it competes with their revenue model). > ... which is giving away .rpms and .isos and charging for support. .... and selling upgrade CDs and subscriptions to the 'RedHat Network'; which is the sort of thing that Debian studiously avoids, because they can save money and hassle by not doing that. On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 09:18:41AM -0500, Ben Lutgens wrote: > If you think the debian developers give a flying fsck what the users think > you're on crack. If you think redhat does NOT give a flying fsck what > thier users think, you're on crack. let me rephrase what I said: the debian developers care what the end users think, so far as they themselves are end users. enlightened self-interest leads the way for everyone to enjoy the fruits of a few people's labors. the RedHat teams care about the end users, because they are still _competing_ for market share (unlike M$, who's just desperately trying to convince everyone that the new version is worth buying, just because it's different from the old version... not necessarily better, just different). capitalism leads the way for the owners of the company to make a profit. (and the users benefit as well, as a side effect). the upshot of this, is that the distros end up targeted toward different end users. I tend to fall more into the Debian category of user. others fall more into the RedHat category of user. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jul 2 23:51:00 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702005056.Z31559@techmonkeys.org> <20020702142241.GB4218@rtfm.sistina.com> <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3D2281ED.5090808@ringworld.org> Chad Walstrom wrote: > Most packages are using debconf now-a-days, with a few rogue apps still > using their home-cooked config scripts. By woody+1 release, I'm hoping > to get rid of all of the latter. FAI, as a project, has unearthed many Ditto, I expect a holy war and a GR first, however. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jul 2 23:51:32 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Next Redhat BETA coming References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702141841.GA4218@rtfm.sistina.com> Message-ID: <3D22828B.7010707@ringworld.org> Ben Lutgens wrote: > If you think the debian developers give a flying fsck what the users think > you're on crack. Got an example? -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 3 03:10:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <3D22828B.7010707@ringworld.org>; from dieman@ringworld.org on Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 11:50:19PM -0500 References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702141841.GA4218@rtfm.sistina.com> <3D22828B.7010707@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020703020559.B15901@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman@ringworld.org): > Ben Lutgens wrote: > > If you think the debian developers give a flying fsck what the users think > > you're on crack. > > Got an example? > Of IdiotBen on crack? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From dante at plethora.net Wed Jul 3 06:59:25 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> Message-ID: An interesting thought on OS usability: Distro's will be most easily used for what their developers use them for. 1. Solaris developers probably don't have to admin their own workstations. So general ease of administration is not high on their list. 2. Redhat developers are probably encouraged to keep their workstations as close as possible to the last/next release. Resulting in easy installs and less easy updates. 3. Debian developers got upgrading right a while ago, so they aren't as concerned with getting the installer improved. That said, has anyone here seen work on a source-based apt front end for Debian? -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From chrome at real-time.com Wed Jul 3 07:55:11 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: ; from dante@plethora.net on Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 05:58:50AM -0500 References: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020703074837.A6825@real-time.com> On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 05:58:50AM -0500, Daniel Taylor wrote: > An interesting thought on OS usability: > > Distro's will be most easily used for what > their developers use them for. I think that's a very perceptive statement, and sums up the different distributions very well. > That said, has anyone here seen work on > a source-based apt front end for Debian? yeah, I saw one mentioned a while ago. maybe it was on freshmeat, maybe on Linux Weekly News. someone's definitely thinking about it, tho. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 3 10:04:06 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Next Redhat BETA coming In-Reply-To: <3D22828B.7010707@ringworld.org> References: <20020630002124.A4300@real-time.com> <1025424008.2288.144.camel@yafa> <20020630132257.A25130@real-time.com> <20020630222220.GC1200@iucha.net> <20020630190659.C27332@real-time.com> <20020701225025.C27342@real-time.com> <20020702141841.GA4218@rtfm.sistina.com> <3D22828B.7010707@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020703145525.GC4296@rtfm.sistina.com> On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 11:50:19PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: >Ben Lutgens wrote: >>If you think the debian developers give a flying fsck what the users think >>you're on crack. > >Got an example? Even if I could remember an example it would do little good. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020703/be3d0113/attachment.pgp From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jul 3 10:05:20 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: References: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20020703150503.GB8231@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 05:58:50AM -0500, Daniel Taylor wrote: > 3. Debian developers got upgrading right a while ago, so they aren't > as concerned with getting the installer improved. Not quite right. Debian developers HATE the current installation floppy setup. Let me restate, debian developers DESPISE the current installation floppy setup. It's monolithic, extremely hard to maintain, and has to be custom designed for each architecture it's deployed on. (I say floppy, because even though you may install from CD, it's still the same floppy design...) Now, let me dig up the project name and paraphrase its goals: modularity, plugable front-ends, cross-platform, easy to use. Debconf has enabled part of this now with ITS plugable frontends, and once we get all/most packages agreeing that noninteractive installations ARE a viable option, then we'll be far along the way of making installations MUCH easier. Ok, back to the project, debian-installer. The mailing lists to watch include debian-boot, debian-devel, and possibly debian-dpkg. debian-boot recently had this post to the list that gives a good overview of what needs to happen for a C-based debconf and how it relates to the new debian-installer.[1] I didn't find much more than that. You can use anonymous cvs access to look at the debian-installer source if you'd like. Reference the debian-boot mailing list for info. > That said, has anyone here seen work on a source-based apt front end > for Debian? Hmm... There was talk on debian-devel about such a thing. You mean something like a BSD ports functionality w/o going so far as to needing ports? Recently, *.deb's have been required to add "Build-Depends:" fields for the tools and libraries that a package needs to build from source. apt-get does have a "source" target that downloads the necessary files and applies the debian patch to the original tarball in a working directory. Read the apt-get manpages for more details. 1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2002/debian-boot-200207/msg00052.html -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020703/2cc23f30/attachment.pgp From dante at plethora.net Wed Jul 3 10:23:15 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: <20020703150503.GB8231@wookimus.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, Chad Walstrom wrote: > On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 05:58:50AM -0500, Daniel Taylor wrote: > > 3. Debian developers got upgrading right a while ago, so they aren't > > as concerned with getting the installer improved. > > Not quite right. Debian developers HATE the current installation floppy > setup. Let me restate, debian developers DESPISE the current > installation floppy setup. It's monolithic, extremely hard to maintain, > and has to be custom designed for each architecture it's deployed on. > Yep, and has had several replacements pop up over time (Stormix?). My point was actually that there is little need to ever REinstall a Debian system, so the installer gets less field time than dselect or apt. > > > That said, has anyone here seen work on a source-based apt front end > > for Debian? > > Hmm... There was talk on debian-devel about such a thing. You mean > something like a BSD ports functionality w/o going so far as to needing > ports? Recently, *.deb's have been required to add "Build-Depends:" > fields for the tools and libraries that a package needs to build from > source. apt-get does have a "source" target that downloads the > necessary files and applies the debian patch to the original tarball in > a working directory. Read the apt-get manpages for more details. I use "apt-get -b source pine" to keep up to date. I was rather thinking of a frontend like aptitude or dselect that actually acknowledged and used the Sources to keep track of packages. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From cgahlon at citilink.com Wed Jul 3 15:27:07 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] less command wierdness. References: <200207011522.g61FMfp15404@zjod.net> Message-ID: <3D235DF1.684E4530@citilink.com> Steve Siegfried wrote: > > That's a function of the xterm terminfo setup file you're using. Try setting your > terminal type to "xterms-sun" or "xterm-sun". > > -S Thanks much sir! I recompiled Aterm with --term-name=xterm (default is rxvt) and my world is a happier place. Chris From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Jul 3 18:13:34 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") References: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> <20020703150503.GB8231@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <3D237920.60406@ringworld.org> Chad Walstrom wrote: > installation floppy setup. It's monolithic, extremely hard to maintain, > and has to be custom designed for each architecture it's deployed on. /me notes that most people working with large debian installations don't even use the standard bootfloppies. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Jul 5 10:56:28 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Debian asking questions (was "Next Redhat BETA coming") In-Reply-To: <3D237920.60406@ringworld.org> References: <20020702152949.GC23259@wookimus.net> <20020703150503.GB8231@wookimus.net> <3D237920.60406@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020705145330.GB4561@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 05:22:24PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > /me notes that most people working with large debian installations > don't even use the standard bootfloppies. Very true. Why? Because the standard installation requires user interaction. Yes, UI, the useless concept when taken in context of your comment. We need no such thing as Questions and Answers when deploying 100's of machine installations. boot-floppies fall flat on their keisters. Installation options under these circumstances for debian: autoinstall[1], from Progeny fame, and FAI[2], a jumpstart clone for Debian. Perhaps debian-installer will address these issues. 1. http://packages.debian.org/autoinstall 2. http://packages.debian.org/fai -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020705/d8cad6e6/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 5 11:49:59 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887DC9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Ok, so ATT just launched their GSM network here in Minneapolis. Perfect timing since my 8260 just died. So, being there are many people on this list who might know, or might be able to put me in touch with someone who would know.... I read awhile back that ATT found a way to lock their SIM's so they will only work in an ATT locked GSM phone, not in an unlocked phone. Is this true? I know ATT locks their phones, but their SIM's too? I want to get an Ericcson t68i, but ATT doesn't provide it, so I'll have to buy an unlocked one somewhere. But if ATT's SIM doesn't work in an unlocked phone, I guess I'm stuck with the t68 (not the i). Also, ATT's GPRS data pricing is outrageous. 7.99 for 1MB, and 12.99 for 2MB. At GPRS speeds, you could easily go over your limit in just 10 minutes. GPRS is expensive through any provider, but ATT is double the price of Voicestream. I'd switch providers, but I don't want to lose my phone number. Some politicians are trying to pass laws that would make it possible for your number to follow you, like it does in the UK, but obviously cell providers here are "donating" big money to not have these laws pass. Number portability would increase competition and benefit the consumer since the #1 reason people don't switch providers is because they don't want to change their number. If anyone knows anything about the SIM issue, or knows someone at ATT that could tell me, please let me know. Also, if anyone knows of a good source for unlocking cables or clips for the t68(i), please tell. Jay From davisn at mailandnews.com Fri Jul 5 21:23:15 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com> Well, I recently installed a Redhat system that took less than 300 MB or disk space. The system was built using several "spare" (this word doesn't even begin to describe it) hard-drives, all less than 1GB. There was a 50 MB boot partition on the first drive, otherwise all the space on all three drives were combined into a single Raid-0 partition. Redhat not only allowed me to install an entire system on < 1GB (total combine space was almost 900 MB), but allowed me to do it using a nice and easy to use interface. Really, if you are going to say something, you should have something to base it on. Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On Sun, Jun 30, 2002 at 10:58:44PM -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > As to the install, it's been a while so I don't recall the specifics. > > Being presented with about 30 options of drivers, cards, etc, > > hmmm... I personally fail to find debian particularly hard to install. I > guess it probably doesn't choose your video card and auto-configure 3D > accelleration and all that other crap but... > > *I don't want it to.* > > what debian *doesn't* do, is install >1GB of packages just to build a base > system (see redhat). neither does it muck around with packages, adding its > own extensions, hacks and patches (at least not as many as RH does). > and the nicest thing about it: > > *you only have to install it once*. after that, just apt-get upgrade for the > rest of your life. > > I'll grant that RedHat 7.3 is probably a better choice for the newbie; > partly because it configures for the hardware pretty well; mostly because it > *does* give you all those extra packages... gives people a chance to learn > what packages they want/need/use. > > after that, they can install a base debian system, and apt-get install > packages as needed. > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Sat Jul 6 02:36:02 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887DC9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Ok, so ATT just launched their GSM network here in Minneapolis. Perfect > timing since my 8260 just died. So, being there are many people on this > list who might know, or might be able to put me in touch with someone who > would know.... I read awhile back that ATT found a way to lock their SIM's > so they will only work in an ATT locked GSM phone, not in an unlocked phone. > Is this true? I know ATT locks their phones, but their SIM's too? I know that if you look on eBay you can find T68i's that the sellers claim are already set up for AT&T GSM. > I want to get an Ericcson t68i, but ATT doesn't provide it, so I'll have to > buy an unlocked one somewhere. But if ATT's SIM doesn't work in an unlocked > phone, I guess I'm stuck with the t68 (not the i). I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between the two, but I just picked up a T68 and it's great! > Also, ATT's GPRS data pricing is outrageous. 7.99 for 1MB, and 12.99 for > 2MB. At GPRS speeds, you could easily go over your limit in just 10 > minutes. GPRS is expensive through any provider, but ATT is double the > price of Voicestream. The pricing is high on any of them because it's not meant to be your one source of Internet access. It's meant for you to be able to check your e-mail from your phone, and check movie listings once in a while. They figure you're less likely to go over that way. I also believe I heard that the speeds are actually capped, so you won't attain that super-fast supposed potential speed. Hope I was a little help. - Kremer From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Jul 6 09:19:07 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: OT: ATT GSM References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887DC9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D2688A7.6040701@ringworld.org> Austad, Jay wrote: > would know.... I read awhile back that ATT found a way to lock their SIM's > so they will only work in an ATT locked GSM phone, not in an unlocked phone. > Is this true? I know ATT locks their phones, but their SIM's too? I wonder if they will even give you a SIM or support you without buying one of the phones. I know Rogers in canada wont let you just buy a prepaid SIM card. Fido, however, who is microcell who t-mobile/voicestream has a 40% share in does do prepaid SIM cards. They also do roaming for voicestream customers at pretty crazy rates (about ~$.60/min/USD for roaming and calling back to the USA total.). The prepaid cards are at least half the cost of that, afaik. > I want to get an Ericcson t68i, but ATT doesn't provide it, so I'll have to > buy an unlocked one somewhere. But if ATT's SIM doesn't work in an unlocked > phone, I guess I'm stuck with the t68 (not the i). Voicestream unlocks any phone (simunlock at voicestream.net) if youve been on a contract with them for over 3 months. > Also, ATT's GPRS data pricing is outrageous. 7.99 for 1MB, and 12.99 for > 2MB. At GPRS speeds, you could easily go over your limit in just 10 Richochet is coming back. For massive data at ~$50/mo I would rather wait for that. GPRS is slower than richochet, too. (I'm probally spelling richochet incorrectly, too) /me notes he pays $3.99 on voicestream and uses the 'family plan' with two phones (total cost i think is like 60 or 70) and gets: one phone with 50 sms my phone with around 600sms messages for free and 1mb gprs shared 800 weekday minutes unlimited weekends if you can get signal and accepted registration in the US, you incur no extra costs. > obviously cell providers here are "donating" big money to not have these > laws pass. Number portability would increase competition and benefit the > consumer since the #1 reason people don't switch providers is because they > don't want to change their number. I don't want to be charged another #*(@##@!!! $3 to $6 over name portability like we do for normal phones now. I think its like 2-3$ on a land line these days. Plus, I wouldn't want to trust the reliability of a ported number. I would like to see it available for a user fee that only affects people who require ported numbers. Voicestream has a larger network and most likely more global roaming deals than at&t since they are really t-mobile. I'm just waiting for the Danger Hiptop to finally come out. T-Mobile rebranding of voicestream should be verrrrry soon now... -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From tanner at real-time.com Sun Jul 7 02:07:21 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: <200207070309.g6739oh488596@logs-tn.proxy.aol.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020707/209a8a59/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: audio/x-midi Size: 95604 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020707/209a8a59/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 25833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020707/209a8a59/attachment.obj From theixian at hotmail.com Sun Jul 7 03:33:01 2002 From: theixian at hotmail.com (Loren Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) References: <200207070309.g6739oh488596@logs-tn.proxy.aol.com> Message-ID: oh no, it's klez in my mailbox. LB ----- Original Message ----- From: tanner To: tclug-list@lists.real-time.com Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 10:09 PM Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020707/a90cc220/attachment.htm From cgahlon at citilink.com Sun Jul 7 14:31:37 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] looking for a Customer Support, Help Desk Issue tracker app References: Message-ID: <3D28938D.D9C30311@citilink.com> http://perldesk.com/ We use it at work. Pretty slick. Has a searchable knowledge base area too. It chokes on Outpuke forwarded attachements though. I'm not sure if that's a feature or a bug... :-) Christopher Gahlon Duncan Shannon wrote: > > Hello gang- > > Im about to need a web-based interface to use as a support / help desk > tool. We are rolling out a new web based product, and would really like > to have a good way to manage support requests. > > I think our staff can enter the ticket (end luser submitted wouldnt be all > that bad either). Id love to hear peoples experience with these tools, > there seem to be so many different tools, all with smiliar, yet different > objectives. If it had a FAQ or knowledge base tool with it, that would be > great. An interface for the client to login and view thier ticket is > importiant. > > Thanks > duncan > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Jul 7 17:38:09 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: ; from theixian@hotmail.com on Sun, Jul 07, 2002 at 03:19:56AM -0500 References: <200207070309.g6739oh488596@logs-tn.proxy.aol.com> Message-ID: <20020707160545.T31559@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Jul 07, 2002 at 03:19:56AM -0500, Loren Burlingame wrote: > oh no, it's klez in my mailbox. > > LB > Slimeball Bob is at it again I see, fortunately it never hit my inbox: X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=10.8 required=6.5 tests=FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES,RATWARE,RELAYING_FRAME, MICROSOFT_EXECUTABLE,MIME_SUSPECT_NAME,RAZOR_CHECK, MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM version=2.40 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.40 (devel $Id: SpamAssassin.pm,v 1.100 2002/06/20 17:02:41 hughescr Exp $) SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ---------------------- SPAM: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been altered SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future. SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. SPAM: SPAM: Content analysis details: (10.8 hits, 6.5 required) SPAM: FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES (-0.1 points) From: no spaces in name SPAM: RATWARE (4.6 points) Bulk email software fingerprints found in headers SPAM: RELAYING_FRAME (0.0 points) BODY: Frame wanted to load outside URL SPAM: MICROSOFT_EXECUTABLE (0.1 points) RAW: Message includes Microsoft executable program SPAM: MIME_SUSPECT_NAME (0.1 points) RAW: MIME filename does not match content SPAM: RAZOR_CHECK (3.0 points) Listed in Razor, see http://razor.sourceforge.net/ SPAM: MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3 (1.1 points) 'Message-Id' was added by a relay (3) SPAM: RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM (2.0 points) RBL: Received via a relay in relays.osirusoft.com SPAM: [RBL check: found 73.188.146.172.relays.osirusoft.com., type: 127.0.0.3] SPAM: SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results --------------------- =P -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From clay at fandre.com Sun Jul 7 19:50:14 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG Installfest July 13th Message-ID: <20020706012819.GB19841@fandre.com> Next TCLUG Installfest When: Saturday July 13th, 2002 11:00 am to 5:00 pm Where: 215 N 1st St Minneapolis, MN Minneapolis Warehouse district. It's the Williams Building. Brick bldg with green and black sign over the front door. Map: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=215+N+1st+St&city=Minnea+polis&state=MN&zipcode=&homesubmit.x=39&homesubmit.y=11 What to bring: Your computer(s) if you want help installing/configuring your system. Or you can just come to watch. Bring everything you need since there may not be extras. If you have an extra power-strip if might be a good idea to bring that too. There will be network connections available, so bring your network cards/cables/hubs too. Cost: Completely free, including software and service If you are planning on attending, please register here: http://www.mn-linux.org/installfest/registration.php _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From scot at thinkunix.net Sun Jul 7 21:20:45 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCLUG Installfest July 13th In-Reply-To: <20020706012819.GB19841@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 08:28:20PM -0500 References: <20020706012819.GB19841@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020707205817.A8229@okane.localnet> folks, the installfest is begin held at my office. The other night I setup the area. We have about a dozen large work areas (oversized cubicals). There are 2 powerstrips and 2 ethernet hooks in most of them. I can't stress enough that if you have spare switches or hubs, please bring them. There were 99 folks registers last time I checked and given past installfests, most people hang out the better part of the day. If you have questions, please email me or call my work # 612-312-0172. Clay Fandre wrote: > Next TCLUG Installfest > > When: > Saturday July 13th, 2002 > 11:00 am to 5:00 pm > > Where: > 215 N 1st St > Minneapolis, MN > > Minneapolis Warehouse district. It's the Williams Building. > Brick bldg with green and black sign over the front door. > Map: > http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=215+N+1st+St&city=Minnea+polis&state=MN&zipcode=&homesubmit.x=39&homesubmit.y=11 From natecars at real-time.com Sun Jul 7 23:02:55 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887DC9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Ok, so ATT just launched their GSM network here in Minneapolis. > Perfect timing since my 8260 just died. So, being there are many > people on this list who might know, or might be able to put me in > touch with someone who would know.... I read awhile back that ATT > found a way to lock their SIM's so they will only work in an ATT > locked GSM phone, not in an unlocked phone. Is this true? I know ATT > locks their phones, but their SIM's too? Note that AT&T's GSM networks beats VoiceStream's in the local area (I've got a T68, and just about everywhere my VoiceStrem signal dies, I can see the AT&T network, although I can't link to it, 'cuz I'm voicestream), but once you get outside of town, you get nothing. AT&T also has not established any GSM roaming agreements yet, so.. well, it sucks. (I already sent VoiceStream an e-mail asking them to get an agreement set up.. I doubt it'll happen though.) I drove out to Fargo yesterday, I had VoiceStream on and off all the way down 94, but AT&T died and never came back after around hwy. 101. > I want to get an Ericcson t68i, but ATT doesn't provide it, so I'll > have to buy an unlocked one somewhere. But if ATT's SIM doesn't work > in an unlocked phone, I guess I'm stuck with the t68 (not the i). I just picked up a T68, love it. > Also, ATT's GPRS data pricing is outrageous. 7.99 for 1MB, and 12.99 > for 2MB. At GPRS speeds, you could easily go over your limit in just > 10 minutes. GPRS is expensive through any provider, but ATT is double > the price of Voicestream. I'd switch providers, but I don't want to > lose my phone number. Some politicians are trying to pass laws that > would make it possible for your number to follow you, like it does in > the UK, but obviously cell providers here are "donating" big money to > not have these laws pass. Number portability would increase > competition and benefit the consumer since the #1 reason people don't > switch providers is because they don't want to change their number. I asked the AT&T rep about this, he was amazed that VoiceStream was able to sell 1mb for $2.99. Note that it looks like AT&T's service for $7.99 does allow you to use a computer with it, where VoiceStream's doesn't. (Minimum VoiceStream plan that does allow you to use a PC/PDA is $20 min.. ugh!) > If anyone knows anything about the SIM issue, or knows someone at ATT > that could tell me, please let me know. Also, if anyone knows of a > good source for unlocking cables or clips for the t68(i), please tell. If anyone has a AT&T SIM, I'll call VoiceStream and get my T68 unlocked (they will actually give out the unlock codes; they are just about the only provider that will), and we could give it a shot in the phone.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From michael.arolan at excite.com Mon Jul 8 10:04:46 2002 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (michael.arolan@excite.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] JDBC/OCI Error message. Urgent please help!!!! Message-ID: <20020708133828.6E545BFAA@xmxpita.excite.com> Hi Gurus I'm trying to connect to my Oracle9i database via a Java servlet but got the following error message in the web browser: Internal error: exception thrown from the servlet service function (uri=/servlet/HelloWWW6): java.lang.NullPointerException, Stack: java.lang.NullPointerException at oracle.jdbc.oci8.OCIDBAccess.check_error(OCIDBAccess.java:1743) at oracle.jdbc.oci8.OCIEnv.getEnvHandle(OCIEnv.java:69) at oracle.jdbc.oci8.OCIDBAccess.logon(OCIDBAccess.java:452) at oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleConnection.(OracleConnection.java:287) at oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver.getConnectionInstance (OracleDriver.java:442) at oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver.connect(OracleDriver.java:321) at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:512) at java.sql.DriverManager.getConnection(DriverManager.java:172) at HelloWWW6.doGet(HelloWWW6.java:40) at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:740) at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853) at com.iplanet.server.http.servlet.NSServletRunner.invokeServletService (NSServletRunner.java:897) at com.iplanet.server.http.servlet.NSServletRunner.Service (NSServletRunner.java:464) My class path is: Java VM classpath: /u01/iplanet/servers/plugins/servlets/examples/legacy/beans .10/SDKBeans10.jar:/usr/local/javamail-1.2/mail.jar:/usr/local/jaf- 1.0.1/activation.jar:/u02/app/oracle/product/9i/lib:/u02/app/oracle/pr oduct/9i/jdbc/lib:/u02/app/oracle/product/9i/jdbc/lib/classes12.zip:/u 02/app/oracle/product/9i/jdbc/lib/nls_charset12.zip:/u01/iplanet/serve rs/bin/https/jar/NSServletLayer.jar:/u01/iplanet/servers/bin/https/jar /NSJavaUtil.jar:/u01/iplanet/servers/bin/https/jar/NSJavaMiscUtil.jar: /u01/iplanet/servers/bin/https/jar/servlet.jar:/u01/iplanet/servers/bi n/https/jar/servlet-2.3-filters- api.jar:/u01/iplanet/servers/bin/https/jar/jsp092.jar:/u01/iplanet/ser vers/bin/https/jar/jaxp.jar:/u01/iplanet/servers/bin/https/jar/crimson .jar:/u01/iplanet/servers/bin/https/jar/xalan.jar:/u01/iplanet/servers /bin/https/jar/jspengine.jar: My LD_LIBRARY_PATH is: /u02/app/oracle/product/9i/lib:/u02/app/oracle/product/9i/jdbc/lib:/u0 2/app/oracle/product/9i/jdbc/lib/classes12.zip:/u02/app/oracle/product /9i/jdbc/lib/nls_charset12.zip Can anyone help? This is currently driving me nuts. I was able to connect when I changed it to an application. I am using the Iplanet Webserver 6.0 on a Linux 7.2 platform. The database (Oracle 8.1.7) is on a seperate box on a Solaris 8 platform. Like I said, sqlplus works fine from Linux (so no TNSnames.ora problems), standard java application works fine (so classpath is fine) but when I change it to a servlet (which means it now goes through the webserver, I get this error message). The classpath on the command line is exactly the same as the classpath for the webserver! Does anyone know what the source code is trying to do at OCIDBAccess.java:1743 ? Thanks guys! ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From mcnixon at wwdb.org Mon Jul 8 11:40:35 2002 From: mcnixon at wwdb.org (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing on TS30AS Laptop (No CDROM) Message-ID: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org> I'm looking forward to the installfest next weekend, but I wanted to be prepared. I have an old Laptop without CDROM that I want to install linux on. I'm more familiar with RedHat or Suse, but I'll go for anything that works! My Equipment: Laptop TS30AS, 486 75mhz, 12MB RAM, 500MB HD, Floppy, but no CD-ROM. (http://www.tjunker.com/TS30AS.html) I've also bought a US Robotics / Megaherts PCMCIA Card (10mb LAN + 28.8 modem) but I don't have it infront of me to see the model number. I plan to use this at home to connect to my linksys router and the internet. Besides a little light browsing and email, I would like to do word processing (any text editor will do), and maybe use a spreadsheet. I also have the 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" HD mounting kit, so I could copy stuff onto the Laptop HD from my desktop. Would it be easier to do this rather than a network (or floppy) install? I have install CDROMS for RH 7.3, Suse 8.0, and FreeBSD 4.6 TIA, Mike Nixon From wilson at visi.com Mon Jul 8 12:01:39 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing on TS30AS Laptop (No CDROM) In-Reply-To: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org> References: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org> Message-ID: <20020708165252.GA24182@isis.visi.com> On Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 09:32:32AM -0700, Mike Nixon wrote: > > I also have the 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" HD mounting kit, so I could copy > stuff onto the Laptop HD from my desktop. Would it be easier to do > this rather than a network (or floppy) install? With plenty of bandwidth on hand for the Installfest, I would definitely do a network install. It won't take all that long as long as you can get your laptop on the network. Luckily there will almost certainly be people there who can get that done. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Jul 8 12:50:10 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing on TS30AS Laptop (No CDROM) In-Reply-To: <20020708165252.GA24182@isis.visi.com>; from wilson@visi.com on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 11:52:52AM -0500 References: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org> <20020708165252.GA24182@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <20020708124142.V31559@techmonkeys.org> I'll have my system running as an NFS/public ftp/web server serving RH 7.3, this will be used for network installed instead of wasting bandwidth to the 'net. (It'll be much faster as well =) On Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 11:52:52AM -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > With plenty of bandwidth on hand for the Installfest, I would definitely > do a network install. It won't take all that long as long as you can get > your laptop on the network. Luckily there will almost certainly be > people there who can get that done. > > -Tim > -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jul 8 12:52:31 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] JDBC/OCI Error message. Urgent please help!!!! In-Reply-To: <20020708133828.6E545BFAA@xmxpita.excite.com>; from michael.arolan@excite.com on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 09:38:28AM -0400 References: <20020708133828.6E545BFAA@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <20020708124148.A4908@real-time.com> Quoting michael.arolan@excite.com (michael.arolan@excite.com): > > Hi Gurus > > I'm trying to connect to my Oracle9i database via a Java servlet but > got the following error message in the web browser: Should post this to tclug-devel. Should post a code snippet so we can see what your code is trying to do. From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Jul 8 13:14:08 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing on TS30AS Laptop (No CDROM) In-Reply-To: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org>; from mcnixon@wwdb.org on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 09:32:32AM -0700 References: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org> Message-ID: <20020708125705.B7399@okane.localnet> I just recently did a Slack 8.1 install over the network on a similarly configured laptop. Network installs are the best. Bring it down and we'll send help you get whatever you want installed. I'm not familiar with Suse but have worked w/Slack, RedHat and FreeBSD. I'm sure Suse can't be all that different. My only suggest is to give yourself plenty of time. 486's typically take a *LONG* time to install. Get here early and it won't be a problem. Mike Nixon wrote: > I'm looking forward to the installfest next weekend, but I wanted to > be prepared. I have an old Laptop without CDROM that I want to > install linux on. I'm more familiar with RedHat or Suse, but I'll go > for anything that works! > > My Equipment: > Laptop TS30AS, 486 75mhz, 12MB RAM, 500MB HD, Floppy, but no CD-ROM. (http://www.tjunker.com/TS30AS.html) > > I've also bought a US Robotics / Megaherts PCMCIA Card (10mb LAN + > 28.8 modem) but I don't have it infront of me to see the model number. > I plan to use this at home to connect to my linksys router and the > internet. Besides a little light browsing and email, I would like > to do word processing (any text editor will do), and maybe use a > spreadsheet. > > I also have the 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" HD mounting kit, so I could copy > stuff onto the Laptop HD from my desktop. Would it be easier to do > this rather than a network (or floppy) install? > > I have install CDROMS for RH 7.3, Suse 8.0, and FreeBSD 4.6 > > TIA, > Mike Nixon > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -scot From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Jul 8 13:16:20 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing on TS30AS Laptop (No CDROM) In-Reply-To: <20020708124142.V31559@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 12:41:43PM -0500 References: <200207080932.AA64684854@mail.wwdb.org> <20020708165252.GA24182@isis.visi.com> <20020708124142.V31559@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020708130258.C7399@okane.localnet> I have a local ftp server with several distros on it and a burner that will be available for the installfest. What are folks looking to install? Currently have (all i386 arch): RedHat 7.2, 7.3 Slack 8.1, 7.1 Debian 2.2_rev2 I can load up whatever else before the weekend. Please email me directly. Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I'll have my system running as an NFS/public ftp/web server serving > RH 7.3, this will be used for network installed instead of wasting > bandwidth to the 'net. (It'll be much faster as well =) From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Jul 8 23:34:59 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack Message-ID: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> Has anyone had any luck on getting VM-ware to work on a Slackware machine? I spent about 3 hours one night trying to get it to go, but couldn't. It's not listed as a "supported" distro =( -- Shawn sfertch@real-time.com Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, 2002) for Multiple Sclerosis: https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jul 8 23:51:04 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0072571C9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > If anyone has a AT&T SIM, I'll call VoiceStream and get my > T68 unlocked > (they will actually give out the unlock codes; they are just about the > only provider that will), and we could give it a shot in the phone.. Well, I have my ATT SIM. The T68 is an absolutely awesome phone. Lots of sweet stuff to play with. You can record phone conversations, and ATT has a "find people" feature where you can locate other ATT users through the WAP interface to within a block or so of their actual location (they have to enable "let people find me" in their profile). Bluetooth, IR, WAP... I found some cool secrets for it: Start the "Erix" game and press 123 or 789 at the intro screen, and a hidden Nokia-like snake game will pop up. From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Jul 9 00:20:37 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack In-Reply-To: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: Hey, On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Has anyone had any luck on getting VM-ware to work on a Slackware > machine? I spent about 3 hours one night trying to get it to go, but > couldn't. It's not listed as a "supported" distro =( What exactly is not working? Not loading, not building the modules, hangs a lot? -Yaron -- From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jul 9 01:15:58 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA0072571C9@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Well, I have my ATT SIM. The T68 is an absolutely awesome phone. > Lots of sweet stuff to play with. You can record phone conversations, > and ATT has a "find people" feature where you can locate other ATT > users through the WAP interface to within a block or so of their > actual location (they have to enable "let people find me" in their > profile). Bluetooth, IR, WAP... Yeah -- that is a pretty sweet deal. I'm watching for a good deal on a Bluetooth card for my Visor Edge so I can play with that.. I may end up just going to a Palm or iPaq. > From the main screen, press "< * * <" where the arrows are the way to press > the joystick. You'll get the service provider lock/unlock menu. You need > ATT's NCK number to unlock the phone, and if you type it in wrong 5 times it > will lock your phone forever to ATT. If anyone can find out the NCK for me, > I'd be forever grateful. :) I just called VoiceStream, and I should have my NCK within a few days. If you wanna try your SIM out in my phone, let me know. :) > From the main screen, press "> * << * >" (I think, it's at least > similar to this). It will give you a menu where you can see different > config options in the phone and different network settings. >*<<*<* :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Jul 9 01:49:04 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack In-Reply-To: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com>; from sfertch@real-time.com on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 11:06:39PM -0500 References: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020709013825.A3106@okane.localnet> are you trying to run the vncviewer or the vncserver? what version of slack? Shawn Fertch wrote: > Has anyone had any luck on getting VM-ware to work on a Slackware > machine? I spent about 3 hours one night trying to get it to go, but > couldn't. It's not listed as a "supported" distro =( From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Jul 9 05:37:45 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack In-Reply-To: <20020709013825.A3106@okane.localnet> References: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020709013825.A3106@okane.localnet> Message-ID: <20020709052925.0eae94a7.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:38:25 -0500 Scot Jenkins wrote: > are you trying to run the vncviewer or the vncserver? > what version of slack? > VMware, not VNC. I've tried on both 8.0 and 8.1. -- Shawn sfertch@real-time.com Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, 2002) for Multiple Sclerosis: https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Jul 9 05:56:15 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack In-Reply-To: References: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020709054538.6cd2b5d0.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:08:06 -0500 (CDT) Yaron wrote: > What exactly is not working? Not loading, not building the modules, > hangs a lot? > The biggest problem is the start and stop scripts, I haven't been able to get beyond that. VMware expects it to be an rc0.d to rc6.d directory structure instead of Slack's /etc/rc.d/rc.0 script layout. I've tried creating links to fool it, but for some reason it won't take them. Either that, or I didn't set them up right. Miserable in this heat so the brain doesn't think right. Tried doing a Debian 2.2r4 install last night, couldn't get past the device setup. Debian didn't list my pcmcia NIC, which is a 3Com 3cxfe575bt. -- Shawn sfertch@real-time.com Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, 2002) for Multiple Sclerosis: https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jul 9 10:53:48 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887E7B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> If you're at the next beermeeting, I'll likely show up to test this. I wish I could find out the NCK for my T68. Ericsson NCK's are not tied to the IMEI like Nokia's are. So if I can get the NCK that ATT uses, it should work on all T68's through ATT. I'm sure the NCK will eventually be leaked, but I can't find anything yet. Do you have the data cable and a logger for the T68? Using that, you can go through the logs and get the NCK. There aren't any unlocking kits or clips out yet for the T68, but it probably won't be long. The T68i is simply a software upgrade also, someone here had their's flashed up to an i. If anyone knows how to do this, tell me. I want to rip the software off his and upgrade mine too. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:natecars@real-time.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:55 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Well, I have my ATT SIM. The T68 is an absolutely awesome > phone. Lots > > of sweet stuff to play with. You can record phone > conversations, and > > ATT has a "find people" feature where you can locate other > ATT users > > through the WAP interface to within a block or so of their actual > > location (they have to enable "let people find me" in their > profile). > > Bluetooth, IR, WAP... > > Yeah -- that is a pretty sweet deal. I'm watching for a good > deal on a Bluetooth card for my Visor Edge so I can play with > that.. I may end up just going to a Palm or iPaq. > > > From the main screen, press "< * * <" where the arrows are > the way to > > press the joystick. You'll get the service provider > lock/unlock menu. > > You need ATT's NCK number to unlock the phone, and if you > type it in > > wrong 5 times it will lock your phone forever to ATT. If > anyone can > > find out the NCK for me, I'd be forever grateful. :) > > I just called VoiceStream, and I should have my NCK within a > few days. If you wanna try your SIM out in my phone, let me know. :) > > > From the main screen, press "> * << * >" (I think, it's at least > > similar to this). It will give you a menu where you can > see different > > config options in the phone and different network settings. > > >*<<*<* :) > > -- > Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From foeclan at visi.com Tue Jul 9 11:13:56 2002 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack In-Reply-To: <20020709054538.6cd2b5d0.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: Have you tried making the 'rc.sysvinit' file executable in /etc/rc.d? It's designed to mimic the system V init files to get packages that expect them to work right on Slack (which uses the BSD-style inits). -- Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Shawn Fertch wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:08:06 -0500 (CDT) > Yaron wrote: > > > What exactly is not working? Not loading, not building the modules, > > hangs a lot? > > > > The biggest problem is the start and stop scripts, I haven't been able > to get beyond that. VMware expects it to be an rc0.d to rc6.d directory > structure instead of Slack's /etc/rc.d/rc.0 script layout. I've tried > creating links to fool it, but for some reason it won't take them. > Either that, or I didn't set them up right. Miserable in this heat so > the brain doesn't think right. > > Tried doing a Debian 2.2r4 install last night, couldn't get past the > device setup. Debian didn't list my pcmcia NIC, which is a 3Com > 3cxfe575bt. > > -- > Shawn > > sfertch@real-time.com > > Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, > 2002) > for Multiple Sclerosis: > https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jul 9 12:00:20 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887E7B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > If you're at the next beermeeting, I'll likely show up to test this. > I wish I could find out the NCK for my T68. Ericsson NCK's are not > tied to the IMEI like Nokia's are. So if I can get the NCK that ATT > uses, it should work on all T68's through ATT. I'm sure the NCK will > eventually be leaked, but I can't find anything yet. When will the next meeting be? Now that I'm 21, I might actually show up. :) VoiceStream needed my IMEI to unlock the phone, but that might have just been part of the form the guy has to fill out. > Do you have the data cable and a logger for the T68? Using that, you > can go through the logs and get the NCK. There aren't any unlocking > kits or clips out yet for the T68, but it probably won't be long. > The T68i is simply a software upgrade also, someone here had their's > flashed up to an i. If anyone knows how to do this, tell me. I want > to rip the software off his and upgrade mine too. Doesn't the T68i have the new 911 GPS thing, too? At least, that's what I read.. but yeah, if it's a software upgrade, I'm all for it.. I like the way the T68 looks better, anyways! (And yup, this is getting way OT.. to get back on topic a little bit, to get the T68 to work as a IR modem under Linux, I have to lock down the IR Serial port to 115200 bps by running " echo 115200 > /proc/sys/net/irda/max_baud_rate".. just a FYI for anyone trying. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From devel_support at crlc.net Tue Jul 9 13:57:39 2002 From: devel_support at crlc.net (Carl Lindgren) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? Message-ID: <000f01c2277a$3decd5e0$1025a8c0@crlc.net> I have 2 older mainboards (Gigabyte GA-7ZXR) that have an onboard Raid/ATA100 Fasttrack/Promise controller and I'am wondering if there are drivers yet for it with the 2.4 Kernel or any work-arounds? I have used them with FreeBSD and they work fine but have only gotten the IDE 1&2 to work with Linux. Any ideas? Thanks, Carl Lindgren C. R. Lindgren Consulting Minneapolis, MN From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jul 9 15:00:18 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887E9D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > VoiceStream needed my IMEI to unlock the phone, but that > might have just been part of the form the guy has to fill out. That's because you have a Nokia right? Nokia NCK's are tied to the IMEI. > (And yup, this is getting way OT.. to get back on topic a > little bit, to get the T68 to work as a IR modem under Linux, > I have to lock down the IR Serial port to 115200 bps by > running " echo 115200 > /proc/sys/net/irda/max_baud_rate".. > just a FYI for anyone trying. I wonder if the bluetooth stuff works under linux. It would be nice if I could sync the phone to some PIM in linux too, since that's all I run at home. Is there a way to use WAP, but over your wired internet connection so you don't incur fees? Jay From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 9 15:59:48 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887E9D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 02:14:48PM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887E9D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020709154513.P29533@real-time.com> > I wonder if the bluetooth stuff works under linux. don't see why it shouldn't. Nate tells me that the wireless bluetooth headsets are actually another 'telephone device' the the cellphone acutally *forwards* calls to. what I'd really like to do with something like that, is have a linux box at home, with a bluetooth card/dongle on it, that is plugged into my wired phones at home. so the cellphone just forwards calls to the linux box, which makes the analog phones ring. I get the advantages of wired phones (cheap, can put many throughout the house), with the advantage of the cellphone (cheaper service in some cases). something like that Internet PhoneJack thing should be able to generate dialtone, right? I just need to build some sort of linux PBX to handle the bluetooth/cellphone <-> wired phone connection. at least that's what I'm guessing so far... I admit that I don't know diddly squat about telephones, and I know that things are a *lot* more complicated than I lay out above. (getting voltage to ring the phones, etc). anyone ever built a linux PBX? with analog phones? Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 9 16:05:36 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com>; from davisn@mailandnews.com on Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 09:11:20PM -0500 References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20020709160329.Q29533@real-time.com> On Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 09:11:20PM -0500, Nathan Davis wrote: > Well, I recently installed a Redhat system that took less than 300 MB or disk > space. > Really, if you are going to say something, you should have something to base it > on. I'll mention here, that I work on redhat boxes for a living. :) yes, you can get a minimal redhat install in under 300MB. however, by the look of the few systems that I haven't installed via kickstart, in the last few years, it takes a lot of messing around and unselecting default packages, to get it down that far. (if you just take the defaults, it goes over 1GB right away). last time I tried to build a stripped RH install, was about the 6.1 days... I think with *everything* turned off (so it would install just the "base" packages that it required), it still installed 167MB of stuff. I wouldn't doubt that figure has grown at least a little in the intervening years. I know I've built a Slack 7.1 webserver in > 190MB, which had apache, mysql, perl, python, php, ssh, and the usual lot of networking tools. that's not to say that Redhat is a bad distro. it has it's purpose in the grand scheme of things. including all those packages is helpful to newbies who don't know what's available and what they can do with it. Redhat does a marvelous job for that. I think the prime place for Redhat is the corporate server room, and maybe the corporate desktop as well. the tested integrity of their distribution (something debian unstable doesn't have), balanced against the recentness of their packages (something debian stable doesn't have), is a good fit for the corporate environment, where stability is valued, but we still need the latest applications to compete with other camps' offerings. (Sun, M$, Apple, Novell) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jul 9 17:45:11 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EAC@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Well, you could probably use one of the many SIP SDK's to write a bluetooth->SIP gateway, and then make it talk to a Cisco ATA-186 device (which run about $150) over the network. The box will generate a dialtone and ring your phones when a call comes in. > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [mailto:chrome@real-time.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 3:45 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM > > > > I wonder if the bluetooth stuff works under linux. > > don't see why it shouldn't. > > Nate tells me that the wireless bluetooth headsets are > actually another 'telephone device' the the cellphone > acutally *forwards* calls to. > what I'd really like to do with something like that, is have > a linux box at home, with a bluetooth card/dongle on it, that > is plugged into my wired phones at home. so the cellphone > just forwards calls to the linux box, which makes the analog > phones ring. I get the advantages of wired phones (cheap, can > put many throughout the house), with the advantage of the > cellphone (cheaper service in some cases). > > something like that Internet PhoneJack thing should be able > to generate dialtone, right? I just need to build some sort > of linux PBX to handle the bluetooth/cellphone <-> wired > phone connection. > > at least that's what I'm guessing so far... I admit that I > don't know diddly squat about telephones, and I know that > things are a *lot* more complicated than I lay out above. > (getting voltage to ring the phones, etc). > > anyone ever built a linux PBX? with analog phones? > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Network Engineer > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 9 17:58:13 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? In-Reply-To: <000f01c2277a$3decd5e0$1025a8c0@crlc.net>; from devel_support@crlc.net on Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 01:55:49PM -0500 References: <000f01c2277a$3decd5e0$1025a8c0@crlc.net> Message-ID: <20020709164527.B3434@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 01:55:49PM -0500, Carl Lindgren wrote: > I have 2 older mainboards (Gigabyte GA-7ZXR) that have an onboard > Raid/ATA100 Fasttrack/Promise > controller and I'am wondering if there are drivers yet for it with the 2.4 > Kernel or any work-arounds? > > I have used them with FreeBSD and they work fine but have only gotten the > IDE 1&2 to work with Linux. Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Carl Lindgren > C. R. Lindgren Consulting > Minneapolis, MN > Did you happen to go to their website, and click on the driver link? -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From peter-clark at bethel.edu Tue Jul 9 20:52:31 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Only root can use the modem Message-ID: <200207092008.16086.peter-clark@bethel.edu> I'm still trying to figure this one out: after doing an apt-get upgrade a couple of weeks ago, I could no longer dialout unless I was root. Naturally, the first thing I do is check the permissions: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root dialout 10 Jun 20 2001 /dev/modem -> /dev/ttyS3 crw-r----- 1 root dialout 4, 67 Jul 9 19:54 /dev/ttyS3 Next, I check that user 'peter' is included in the group 'dialout'--yep. So why does wvdial say 'Cannot open /dev/ttyS3: Permission denied' and kppp just say that it cannot find the modem? I did not have this problem before, and a dist-upgrade yesterday didn't help anything. Suggestions welcome. :Peter From devel_support at crlc.net Tue Jul 9 21:33:04 2002 From: devel_support at crlc.net (Carl Lindgren) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? References: <000f01c2277a$3decd5e0$1025a8c0@crlc.net> <20020709164527.B3434@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <002401c227b7$6d28e410$1025a8c0@crlc.net> YES, i did. The only drivers Gigabyte offers are for Windows and Netware. Carl Lindgren C. R. Lindgren Consulting Minneapolis, MN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? > On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 01:55:49PM -0500, Carl Lindgren wrote: > > I have 2 older mainboards (Gigabyte GA-7ZXR) that have an onboard > > Raid/ATA100 Fasttrack/Promise > > controller and I'am wondering if there are drivers yet for it with the 2.4 > > Kernel or any work-arounds? > > > > I have used them with FreeBSD and they work fine but have only gotten the > > IDE 1&2 to work with Linux. Any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > Carl Lindgren > > C. R. Lindgren Consulting > > Minneapolis, MN > > > > Did you happen to go to their website, and click on the driver link? > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 9 21:33:54 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Only root can use the modem In-Reply-To: <200207092008.16086.peter-clark@bethel.edu>; from peter-clark@bethel.edu on Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 08:08:16PM -0500 References: <200207092008.16086.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Message-ID: <20020709212141.G3434@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 08:08:16PM -0500, Peter Clark wrote: > I'm still trying to figure this one out: after doing an apt-get upgrade a > couple of weeks ago, I could no longer dialout unless I was root. Naturally, > the first thing I do is check the permissions: > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root dialout 10 Jun 20 2001 /dev/modem -> /dev/ttyS3 > crw-r----- 1 root dialout 4, 67 Jul 9 19:54 /dev/ttyS3 > root has rw(read/write) access, dialout only has r(read) access, i suspect wvdial is trying to open in O_RDWR mode (read/write), which is failing. chmod g+w /dev/ttyS3 to fix it. > Next, I check that user 'peter' is included in the group 'dialout'--yep. So > why does wvdial say 'Cannot open /dev/ttyS3: Permission denied' and kppp just > say that it cannot find the modem? I did not have this problem before, and a > dist-upgrade yesterday didn't help anything. Suggestions welcome. > :Peter -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From dante at plethora.net Tue Jul 9 21:36:43 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Only root can use the modem In-Reply-To: <200207092008.16086.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Peter Clark wrote: > I'm still trying to figure this one out: after doing an apt-get upgrade a > couple of weeks ago, I could no longer dialout unless I was root. Naturally, > the first thing I do is check the permissions: > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root dialout 10 Jun 20 2001 /dev/modem -> /dev/ttyS3 > crw-r----- 1 root dialout 4, 67 Jul 9 19:54 /dev/ttyS3 > > Next, I check that user 'peter' is included in the group 'dialout'--yep. So > why does wvdial say 'Cannot open /dev/ttyS3: Permission denied' and kppp just > say that it cannot find the modem? I did not have this problem before, and a > dist-upgrade yesterday didn't help anything. Suggestions welcome. > :Peter You need at least rw-rw---- permissions on /dev/ttyS3 for it to work. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 9 21:56:15 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? In-Reply-To: <002401c227b7$6d28e410$1025a8c0@crlc.net>; from devel_support@crlc.net on Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 09:13:47PM -0500 References: <000f01c2277a$3decd5e0$1025a8c0@crlc.net> <20020709164527.B3434@techmonkeys.org> <002401c227b7$6d28e410$1025a8c0@crlc.net> Message-ID: <20020709214429.H3434@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 09:13:47PM -0500, Carl Lindgren wrote: > YES, i did. The only drivers Gigabyte offers are for Windows and Netware. > > Carl Lindgren > C. R. Lindgren Consulting > Minneapolis, MN > http://www.promise.com/support/linux2_eng.asp?mode=linux_download&product_id=15 Or, http://www.promise.com/support/linux_eng.asp in case it's not actually the Fastrack 100 -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From peter-clark at bethel.edu Tue Jul 9 22:47:19 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Only root can use the modem In-Reply-To: <20020709212141.G3434@techmonkeys.org> References: <200207092008.16086.peter-clark@bethel.edu> <20020709212141.G3434@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <200207092239.36320.peter-clark@bethel.edu> On Tuesday 09 July 2002 21:21, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > root has rw(read/write) access, dialout only has r(read) access, i suspect > wvdial is trying to open in O_RDWR mode (read/write), which is failing. > > chmod g+w /dev/ttyS3 to fix it. Yep, that did it, thanks also to Daniel Taylor for the same suggestion. Now I'm wondering how it got changed in the first place... :Peter From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 01:05:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 07/10/2002 - 2am CDT maintenance window - ftp server Message-ID: <20020710005025.F26369@real-time.com> What : Scheduled maintenance When : 07-Jul-2002 02:00 CDT Length : estimated 15 mins Why : proftpd upgrade Details ------- Will be upgrading the public ftp server to proftpd-1.2.6rc1 tonight at 2am. + proftpd-1.2.6rc1 - rolled new release - added support for SMP builds - more patches to allow non-root builds - ChangeLog http://www.proftpd.org/docs/NEWS-1.2.6rc1 Should be back up in 15 minutes. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020710/f663c6ce/attachment.pgp From jspinti at dartdist.com Wed Jul 10 07:39:03 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open Source Enterprise Software Message-ID: <1026303941.14114.20.camel@Dart-71_linux> This just came into my in basket: Introducing Open Source WMS picoWMS is a highly-configurable warehouse management and control software package which will be available at no cost, and with full source code. The first complete installation-ready release is expected in 2nd quarter of 2003, with updates and enhancements to continue thereafter. While a completely off-the-shelf WMS that will appeal to everyone is nearly impossible to create, picoWMS plans to provide enough of the infrastructure, operational modules, and examples to allow consultants and computer/web-savvy warehouse IT groups to install their own systems. Designed with growth in mind, picoWMS will allow the same software to operate a simple two person, paper-based system, and yet be able to grow into a high-end, optimized warehouse management system complete with bar codes, directed picking and optimized putaway with interleaved operations, cross-docking, ASN receiving, resource management, and much more. All of this will be done through a series of configuration changes, and addition of other open source modules as needed. The initial configuration of the system is also simplified: a number of different user Case Studies (templates) will exist with pre-configured working systems available to test. Thus the warehouse manager could select one of the provided templates and immediately begin testing to see if the system meets his needs. It is expected that through the open source development path the code will continue to expand to meet the needs of most users. Visit http://openwms.sourceforge.net for more information. Contact John Ribar, the picoWMS project manager, at john@picasso-software.com, if you would like to help in the development, testing, documentation, support, or financial backing of the project. All of these opportunities are also discussed on the website. -- Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext 396 fax 952-368-3255 From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jul 10 07:41:31 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List Message-ID: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> I just got SpamAssassin up and running, and noticed that some posts are getting taged as spam, because of RATWARE (Having bulk email fingerprints in the headers: 4.6 points) and some other small hit like double caps word. But I cant see how the headers look any different from other people's headers. Does anyone know what triggers that? Also, what is a good way to prevent these false positives (they happen consistantly with Jay Austad's emails) without having spamassissn ignore every email coming into the list? Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 10 08:25:08 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EB8@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > these false positives (they happen consistantly with Jay > Austad's emails) > without having spamassissn ignore every email coming into the list? Can you send me a full message with headers that got rejected? I'm on an exchange server here, so I'm sure it probably has something to do with that. Does spam assassin try to do a reverse lookup on the ip of a mailserver to make sure it matches that the dns name that the mailserver announces is the same? Because I know for a fact that it does not match, and the exchange admin won't change it. Jay From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 09:57:54 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 07/10/2002 - 2am CDT maintenance window - ftp server In-Reply-To: <20020710005025.F26369@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 12:50:25AM -0500 References: <20020710005025.F26369@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020710091659.B4908@real-time.com> Quoting Bob Tanner (tanner@real-time.com): > What : Scheduled maintenance > When : 07-Jul-2002 02:00 CDT > Length : estimated 15 mins > Why : proftpd upgrade Upgrade went smoothly. Any problems drop me email. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 366 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020710/3fab0a7e/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 09:59:19 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Iomega Peerless; 20GB, USB Bundle and Linux Message-ID: <20020710091921.C4908@real-time.com> Anyone know if these Iomega Peerless USB drives work with Linux? Interface says USB 1.1, but this url makes me a little skeptical: http://www.iomega.com/support/documents/10425.html Peerless USB and Linux is listed as Unsupported, but that might mean Iomega won't support it :-) -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From peter-clark at bethel.edu Wed Jul 10 10:10:06 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue Message-ID: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> So last night, I was told to change the permissions of /dev/ttyS3 to crw-rw----, and it was good. But This morning when I tried to connect, the permissions had changed back to crw-r-----! I did not reboot or anything; the computer was on all night. So I changed it back again. Then, I noticed that my speed had dropped to 3.1k. (I've got a 56k modem, so this is roughly cutting the speed in half.) I looked at the permissions and sure enough, they had changed back to crw-r-----! What's going on? I checked what processes were running, and the only one that seemed remotely possible was lisa, KDE's LAN Information Server (I don't know why that's running, so I stopped it removed it from /etc/init.d.) :Peter From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jul 10 10:19:59 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EB8@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EB8@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200207101018.19200.list@slushpupie.com> Here is an example (headers and spamassassin message, body not included) >From austad@marketwatch.com Wed Jul 10 07:10:33 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: slushpupie-com-list@slushpupie.com Received: (qmail 19074 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2002 22:55:13 -0000 Received: from lists.real-time.com (HELO sprite.real-time.com) (208.20.202.12) by 10.0.0.25 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2002 22:55:13 -0000 Received: from sprite.real-time.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sprite.real-time.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g69N15X17878; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:01:05 -0500 Received: from mspexch2.office.mktw.net (mail.marketwatch.com [206.147.106.4]) by sprite.real-time.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g69LK4X16834 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:20:05 -0500 Received: by mspexch2.office.mktw.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:22:51 -0500 Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EAC@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> From: "Austad, Jay" To: "'tclug-list@mn-linux.org'" Subject: *****SPAM***** RE: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org Errors-To: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org X-BeenThere: tclug-list@mn-linux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:22:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:22:45 -0500 X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=6.1 required=5.0 tests=RATWARE,DOUBLE_CAPSWORD,ASCII_FORM_ENTRY,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS version=2.31 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Level: ****** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.31 (devel $Id: SpamAssassin.pm,v 1.94.2.2 2002/06/20 17:20:29 hughescr Exp $) Status: R X-Status: N SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ---------------------- SPAM: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been altered SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future. SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. SPAM: SPAM: Content analysis details: (6.1 hits, 5 required) SPAM: RATWARE (4.6 points) Bulk email software fingerprints found in headers SPAM: DOUBLE_CAPSWORD (1.1 points) BODY: A word in all caps repeated on the line SPAM: ASCII_FORM_ENTRY (0.5 points) BODY: Contains an ASCII-formatted form SPAM: SUBJ_ALL_CAPS (-0.1 points) Subject is all capitals SPAM: SPAM: -------------------- End of SpamAssassin results --------------------- From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Jul 10 10:34:10 2002 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John Joseph Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue In-Reply-To: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu>; from peter-clark@bethel.edu on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 09:39:54AM -0500 References: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Message-ID: <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 09:39:54AM -0500, Peter Clark wrote: > So last night, I was told to change the permissions of /dev/ttyS3 to > crw-rw----, and it was good. But This morning when I tried to connect, the > permissions had changed back to crw-r-----! I did not reboot or anything; the > computer was on all night. So I changed it back again. Then, I noticed that > my speed had dropped to 3.1k. (I've got a 56k modem, so this is roughly > cutting the speed in half.) I looked at the permissions and sure enough, they > had changed back to crw-r-----! What's going on? I checked what processes > were running, and the only one that seemed remotely possible was lisa, KDE's > LAN Information Server (I don't know why that's running, so I stopped it > removed it from /etc/init.d.) > :Peter Possibly you have a cron job that checks (and sets) perms on certain files. Do a 'man -k suid', look in /etc/cron.daily/, look for /etc/suid.conf, et cetera. -- trammell@el-swifto.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From homebrewmike at yahoo.com Wed Jul 10 10:58:40 2002 From: homebrewmike at yahoo.com (Mike White) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? Message-ID: <20020710155136.53588.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> Have folks been able to successfully boot off of the Promise card? I've tinkered a bit (following their instructions) and usually it peters out towards the end. I'm mostly soliciting for success stories as verification that it's doable. On a related note - anyone try the Escalade IDE Raid controller? Thanks- -Mike >On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 01:55:49PM -0500, Carl Lindgren wrote: > I have 2 older mainboards (Gigabyte GA-7ZXR) that have an onboard > Raid/ATA100 Fasttrack/Promise > controller and I'am wondering if there are drivers yet for it with the 2.4 > Kernel or any work-arounds? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 10:58:46 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ATT GSM In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887E9D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > > VoiceStream needed my IMEI to unlock the phone, but that might > > have just been part of the form the guy has to fill out. > > That's because you have a Nokia right? Nokia NCK's are tied to the IMEI. Nope, they requested this for my T68. > I wonder if the bluetooth stuff works under linux. It would be nice > if I could sync the phone to some PIM in linux too, since that's all I > run at home. Is there a way to use WAP, but over your wired internet > connection so you don't incur fees? I believe so. I'm waiting until I find a good deal on a bluetooth adapter.. I already blew my monthly splash cash on the phone. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jul 10 11:39:49 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020709160329.Q29533@real-time.com>; from chrome@real-time.com on Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 04:03:29PM -0500 References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com> <20020709160329.Q29533@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020710110855.G15349@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 04:03:29PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > I think the prime place for Redhat is the corporate server room, and maybe > the corporate desktop as well. the tested integrity of their distribution > (something debian unstable doesn't have), balanced against the recentness of > their packages (something debian stable doesn't have), is a good fit for the > corporate environment, where stability is valued, but we still need the > latest applications to compete with other camps' offerings. (Sun, M$, Apple, > Novell) > Huh? I don't see the corporate server room as a place where freshness is more valuable than stability, and it certainly shouldn't be the domain of "newbies who don't know what's available and what they can do with it", so why would you rank Red Hat above Debian stable there? (I can see your point wrt the desktop (although I disagree), but aren't your servers supposed to be absolutely rock-solid stable, even if it means giving up bells and whistles?) -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 10 11:41:26 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com>; from list@slushpupie.com on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 07:35:25AM -0500 References: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <20020710112200.A14951@techmonkeys.org> I already mailed the spamassassin list about this, it's because of the List-ID header 'Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List', it's matching the |Group Mail| part of the RATWARE regex, my suggested fix is to change it to |Group Mail\ | On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 07:35:25AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > I just got SpamAssassin up and running, and noticed that some posts are > getting taged as spam, because of RATWARE (Having bulk email fingerprints in > the headers: 4.6 points) and some other small hit like double caps word. But > I cant see how the headers look any different from other people's headers. > Does anyone know what triggers that? Also, what is a good way to prevent > these false positives (they happen consistantly with Jay Austad's emails) > without having spamassissn ignore every email coming into the list? > -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From esper at sherohman.org Wed Jul 10 11:42:48 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <200207101018.19200.list@slushpupie.com>; from list@slushpupie.com on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 10:18:11AM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EB8@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <200207101018.19200.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <20020710112203.H15349@sherohman.org> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 10:18:11AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > SPAM: RATWARE (4.6 points) Bulk email software fingerprints found in headers Taking a look through my spamassassin config, I see that RATWARE is keyed to a huge (~300-character) regex, but I do not believe that the Debianified config would match those headers. Also worth mentioning is that Debian appears to have retuned spamassassin's scoring[1] and assigns a score of -0.703 points to RATWARE instead of 4.6. If you want to change its scoring, just go into your spamassassin config, grep for RATWARE, and change the line that says score RATWARE 4.6 to a lower number. Or, better, create a local.cf (assuming it's not already there) and put a new 'score RATWARE' line there so that your change will be preserved even if a future upgrade overwrites your main config files. [1] ISTR a README mentioning that the scores were derived using genetic algorithms instead of human estimates, so a lot of them look odd (like this one), but they work very well regardless. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From ndavis at iexposure.com Wed Jul 10 12:17:01 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue In-Reply-To: <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <200207101203.56829.ndavis@iexposure.com> On Wednesday 10 July 2002 10:23, John Joseph Trammell wrote: > On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 09:39:54AM -0500, Peter Clark wrote: > > So last night, I was told to change the permissions of /dev/ttyS3 > > to crw-rw----, and it was good. But This morning when I tried to connect, > > the permissions had changed back to crw-r-----! I did not reboot or > > anything; the computer was on all night. So I changed it back again. > > Then, I noticed that my speed had dropped to 3.1k. (I've got a 56k modem, > > so this is roughly cutting the speed in half.) I looked at the > > permissions and sure enough, they had changed back to crw-r-----! What's > > going on? I checked what processes were running, and the only one that > > seemed remotely possible was lisa, KDE's LAN Information Server (I don't > > know why that's running, so I stopped it removed it from /etc/init.d.) > > > > :Peter > > Possibly you have a cron job that checks (and sets) perms on certain > files. Do a 'man -k suid', look in /etc/cron.daily/, look for > /etc/suid.conf, et cetera. If you run Mandrake there is a program called "msec" that runs every night checking and then resetting the permissions on your system based on your "security level". Check for that too:) Nick -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From peter-clark at bethel.edu Wed Jul 10 12:53:10 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue In-Reply-To: <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <200207101238.12582.peter-clark@bethel.edu> On Wednesday 10 July 2002 10:23, John Joseph Trammell wrote: > On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 09:39:54AM -0500, Peter Clark wrote: > > So last night, I was told to change the permissions of /dev/ttyS3 > > to crw-rw----, and it was good. But This morning when I tried to connect, > > the permissions had changed back to crw-r-----! I did not reboot or > > anything; the computer was on all night. So I changed it back again. > > Then, I noticed that my speed had dropped to 3.1k. (I've got a 56k modem, > > so this is roughly cutting the speed in half.) I looked at the > > permissions and sure enough, they had changed back to crw-r-----! What's > > going on? I checked what processes were running, and the only one that > > seemed remotely possible was lisa, KDE's LAN Information Server (I don't > > know why that's running, so I stopped it removed it from /etc/init.d.) > > > > :Peter > > Possibly you have a cron job that checks (and sets) perms on certain > files. Do a 'man -k suid', look in /etc/cron.daily/, look for > /etc/suid.conf, et cetera. Nothing suspicious in /etc/cron.daily/: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 502 Aug 11 2000 calendar -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 277 Mar 15 2000 find -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 51 Sep 12 1999 logrotate -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 838 Jul 3 17:54 man-db -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 226 Dec 17 2001 mgetty -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 86 Oct 21 2000 modutils -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 495 Aug 16 2000 netkit-inetd -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1118 Feb 17 17:28 ntp-simple -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2736 Oct 1 2001 standard -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1197 Jan 3 2002 sysklogd -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 766 Apr 27 00:05 tetex-bin I also checked cron.weekly and cron.monthly; there didn't seem to be any problems there, either, and yet still /dev/ttyS3 got set to crw-r-----. So that is at least twice in one day. So then I checked /etc/crontab, but aside from running .daily, .weekly, and .monthly, the only other job was to update xplanet, which I've been using for six months without a problem. There doesn't seem to be a suid.conf anywhere in /etc, and 'find / -name suid.conf' didn't turn up anything, either. I'm running Debian, so as far as I know there is no rouge program resetting my security settings. Plus, I still don't know why the modem is stuck at 3.1k. When I first dial-up, it's averaging between 5k and 6k, just like a 56k modem should, but then after a while it goes down to 3.1k. I've tried two ISPs and I get the same behavior, so it's a problem at my end. Currently, I'm using wvdial to dialout, since whenever I use KPPP now, it connects, then instantly disconnects. /var/log/messages is terribly unhelpful--it just says that the modem hung up. Well, duh. KPPP exits with error code 16. Between this and the lousy KDE font handling (most of the TT and Type1 fonts are displayed as little boxes; fonts works just fine in GNOME), I'm getting very frustrated...Grr... :Peter From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 10 13:09:03 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> References: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <1026323847.31161.1.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 07:35, Jay Kline wrote: > I just got SpamAssassin up and running, and noticed that some posts are > getting taged as spam, because of RATWARE (Having bulk email fingerprints in > the headers: 4.6 points) and some other small hit like double caps word. But > I cant see how the headers look any different from other people's headers. > Does anyone know what triggers that? Also, what is a good way to prevent > these false positives (they happen consistantly with Jay Austad's emails) > without having spamassissn ignore every email coming into the list? Yeah, such is life. Adjust your scoring in your personal prefs file, or just let Jay's mail go to your .Trash/ like I do ;-) Make sure SA is marking up the body with what "Violations" it sees and what scores they get, it helps in tuning your setup. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020710/7d267851/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 10 13:35:26 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887ECA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Yeah, such is life. Adjust your scoring in your personal > prefs file, or just let Jay's mail go to your .Trash/ like I do ;-) Sweet, I've been thinking about badmouthing Ben on the list, and now I know he'll never see it. :) From mike at Jentges.NET Wed Jul 10 13:36:30 2002 From: mike at Jentges.NET (MJ) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest Message-ID: Folks, I'm in need of an ISA NE2000 NIC. (NON-pnp) I was planning on loading up some hardware to bring to the installfest, and was wondering if anyone might have one laying around they'd be liking to trade for something specific. I can probably get around this, but life would be so much easier this way. :) If anyone has one and has a hankering for something I might have, please let me know. Thanks! Mike Jentges -- Jentges.Net, Inc. Voice: 763-783-3702 ************************************************** Cell: 763-370-1201 **** Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.**** http://jentges.net ************************************************** From list at slushpupie.com Wed Jul 10 13:36:45 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <20020710112200.A14951@techmonkeys.org> References: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> <20020710112200.A14951@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <200207101326.44795.list@slushpupie.com> On Wednesday 10 July 2002 11:22 am, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I already mailed the spamassassin list about this, it's because of the > List-ID header 'Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List', it's matching > the |Group Mail| part of the RATWARE regex, my suggested fix is to change > it to |Group Mail\ | Is this an easy fix I can do myself before any updates are made? Jay From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jul 10 13:36:58 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020710110855.G15349@sherohman.org> References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com> <20020709160329.Q29533@real-time.com> <20020710110855.G15349@sherohman.org> Message-ID: Dave Sherohman writes: > On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 04:03:29PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > > I think the prime place for Redhat is the corporate server room, and maybe > > the corporate desktop as well. the tested integrity of their distribution > > (something debian unstable doesn't have), balanced against the recentness of > > their packages (something debian stable doesn't have), is a good fit for the > > corporate environment, where stability is valued, but we still need the > > latest applications to compete with other camps' offerings. (Sun, M$, Apple, > > Novell) > > > > Huh? I don't see the corporate server room as a place where > freshness is more valuable than stability, and it certainly shouldn't > be the domain of "newbies who don't know what's available and what > they can do with it", so why would you rank Red Hat above Debian > stable there? (I can see your point wrt the desktop (although I > disagree), but aren't your servers supposed to be absolutely > rock-solid stable, even if it means giving up bells and whistles?) That's what the sysadmins want, but the people deploying applications on them want current versions and/or the latest patches. It tends to be a bit of a conflict area in my experience. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 10 16:47:26 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <200207101326.44795.list@slushpupie.com>; from list@slushpupie.com on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 01:26:40PM -0500 References: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> <20020710112200.A14951@techmonkeys.org> <200207101326.44795.list@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <20020710140242.A1270@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 01:26:40PM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > Is this an easy fix I can do myself before any updates are made? Yes, the appropriate file to edit is: /usr/share/spamassassin/20_head_tests.cf > Jay -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jul 10 16:52:30 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <20020710112200.A14951@techmonkeys.org> References: <200207100735.28141.list@slushpupie.com> <20020710112200.A14951@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020710192150.GA86680@botwerks.org> i've found that the REGEX the way they have it in the SA code is actually quite useful. there was a slew of spam that was 'Group Mail(ing|er)' which this caught. i just filter out my lists first before i apply SA to my incoming maile. this allows me to control this with much more grainularity and keep SA in the mix unadulterated. when last we saw our hero (Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002), Matthew S. Hallacy was madly tapping out: > I already mailed the spamassassin list about this, it's because of > the List-ID header 'Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List', > it's matching the |Group Mail| part of the RATWARE regex, my > suggested fix is to change it to |Group Mail\ | > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 07:35:25AM -0500, Jay Kline wrote: > > I just got SpamAssassin up and running, and noticed that some > > posts are getting taged as spam, because of RATWARE (Having bulk > > email fingerprints in the headers: 4.6 points) and some other > > small hit like double caps word. But I cant see how the headers > > look any different from other people's headers. Does anyone know > > what triggers that? Also, what is a good way to prevent these > > false positives (they happen consistantly with Jay Austad's > > emails) without having spamassissn ignore every email coming into > > the list? -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Jul 10 16:56:48 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue In-Reply-To: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Peter Clark wrote: > So last night, I was told to change the permissions of /dev/ttyS3 to > crw-rw----, and it was good. But This morning when I tried to connect, the > permissions had changed back to crw-r-----! I did not reboot or anything; the > computer was on all night. nevermind rebooting, did you logout and login again... redhat used some pam sorcery to set permissions for some "special" devices when you are the first person to login locally... there special files are things like floppies, CD/RWs, COM ports and the like, check in /etc/pam.d/ for something of interest -munir From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Jul 10 16:59:22 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, MJ wrote: > > Folks, > > I'm in need of an ISA NE2000 NIC. (NON-pnp) i think i still have a couple of the old 3c509s somewhere, they are pnp but can be configured otherwise (though i do not recommend it, the pnp logic on the cards is exceptional, even on non-pnp bioses) -munir From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Jul 10 17:08:25 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sound blaster audigy Message-ID: I'm wondering if any of you have tried using an audigy under linux yet. It is not on the Hardware compatibility Howto anywhere, so I'm thinking that might be a bad sign. I'm trying to get it to work in windows and it's giving me hell, so I figure if there's support under linux I could do that and throw my sblive in the windows box. TIA - Kremer From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Jul 10 17:08:37 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Last login report? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a script/program that will generate some sort of report (basically just run last on every user in passwd) from the wtmp log? Seems like it would be something someone has done before. :) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." From peter-clark at bethel.edu Wed Jul 10 17:20:05 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue In-Reply-To: <200207101238.12582.peter-clark@bethel.edu> References: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> <200207101238.12582.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Message-ID: <200207101702.41080.peter-clark@bethel.edu> On Wednesday 10 July 2002 12:38, Peter Clark wrote: Replying to myself here: > I'm running Debian, so as far as I know there is no rouge program > resetting my security settings. I found the rouge program, or at least narrowed it down to two: either kppp or ppp itself. I ran 'ls /dev/ttyS3' and saw that everything was good, connected using kppp, and suddenly it's been reset to crw-r-----. > Plus, I still don't know why the modem is stuck at 3.1k. When I first > dial-up, it's averaging between 5k and 6k, just like a 56k modem should, > but then after a while it goes down to 3.1k. I've tried two ISPs and I get > the same behavior, so it's a problem at my end. The answers to both of these problems still elude me... :Peter From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jul 10 17:21:33 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: MJ writes: > Folks, > > I'm in need of an ISA NE2000 NIC. (NON-pnp) > I was planning on loading up > some hardware to bring to the installfest, and was wondering if anyone > might have one laying around they'd be liking to trade for something > specific. I can probably get around this, but life would be so much easier > this way. :) > > If anyone has one and has a hankering for something I might have, please > let me know. I have at least one around here. Um, I think it's BNC and AUI, rather than UTP, though, which today seems relevant. Then again, I also have an AUI-to-UTP converter. I *might* also have a spare UTP card, I'd have to dig through boxes to be sure. I've been hoping to get to the installfest anyway, on general principles rather than because I need help installing something right now, so I might actually be able to commit to a time if we work out something. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Jul 10 17:23:01 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Last login report? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020710171721.A25223@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 02:17:35PM -0500, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Does anyone know of a script/program that will generate some sort of > report (basically just run last on every user in passwd) from the wtmp > log? What do you want exactly? Does % last|sort do the trick? Or do you only want some of the info that last gives? -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 17:37:49 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: 07/11/2002 - 2am CDT maintenance Window - mailing list server Message-ID: <20020710172927.X16297@real-time.com> What : Scheduled maintenance When : 11-Jul-2002 02:00 CDT Length : estimated 30 mins Why : Upgrading mailman to 2.0.9 Details ------- A cross-scripting vulnerability has shown up in mailman <= 2.0.8, going to upgrade to 2.0.9 to fix the vulnerability. Should be back up in 30 minutes. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020710/4ef87757/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 17:52:01 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020710110855.G15349@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 11:08:56AM -0500 References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com> <20020709160329.Q29533@real-time.com> <20020710110855.G15349@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020710174043.C26195@real-time.com> > but aren't your servers supposed to be absolutely > rock-solid stable, even if it means giving up bells and whistles?) I agree completely. however, there are times that the customer demands recent bells & whistles, so you need to provide them. different distributions provide different points along the scale of balance (between old/tested/stable and new/occasionally flaky). choose the one that works best for your environment. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jul 10 17:56:23 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sound blaster audigy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020710225331.GC1461@8ball.wox.org> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 01:30:19PM -0500, Kremer wrote: > I'm wondering if any of you have tried using an audigy under linux yet. > It is not on the Hardware compatibility Howto anywhere, so I'm thinking > that might be a bad sign. > I'm trying to get it to work in windows and it's giving me hell, so I > figure if there's support under linux I could do that and throw my sblive > in the windows box. > TIA I'm running an Audigy right now, and it works fine under the CVS packages from the emu10k1 project. They may or may not have merged an audigy-compatable version of the driver into the official kernel, I don't exactly remember. http://sourceforge.net/projects/emu10k1 -- Brian Hicks This message would self-destruct in 10 seconds, except I'm not that clever. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020710/dea48cf4/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 10 17:59:41 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887ECA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887ECA@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <1026337547.32183.0.camel@titanium.sistina.com> On Wed, 2002-07-10 at 13:16, Austad, Jay wrote: > Sweet, I've been thinking about badmouthing Ben on the list, and now I know > he'll never see it. :) hehe, i still see them. Just not instantly ;-) -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020710/6ccef672/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 18:03:05 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin False Positive's on List In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EB8@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 08:22:31AM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EB8@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020710172021.A4683@real-time.com> Quoting Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com): > > these false positives (they happen consistantly with Jay > > Austad's emails) > > without having spamassissn ignore every email coming into the list? > > Can you send me a full message with headers that got rejected? I'm on an > exchange server here, so I'm sure it probably has something to do with that. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That along should be like a 6.5! -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From linux at bmetzler.org Wed Jul 10 18:09:03 2002 From: linux at bmetzler.org (Brent Metzler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Last login report? References: Message-ID: <3D2CBAEC.1020800@bmetzler.org> Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: >Does anyone know of a script/program that will generate some sort of >report (basically just run last on every user in passwd) from the wtmp >log? > >Seems like it would be something someone has done before. :) > > I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for specifically. However, if you want a list of all the users in /etc/passwd, and their logins, you can do it like this: #!/bin/bash last > /tmp/last for name in `cut -d: -f1 /etc/passwd` do awk /^$name/ /tmp/last done -- Brent Metzler brent@bmetzler.org AIM: bmetzl1999 From wlayer at attbi.com Wed Jul 10 18:28:27 2002 From: wlayer at attbi.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] VM-Ware question on Slack In-Reply-To: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20020708230639.70ae6f48.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020710181113.4f004170.wlayer@attbi.com> On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 23:06:39 -0500 Shawn Fertch wrote: > Has anyone had any luck on getting VM-ware to work on a Slackware > machine? I spent about 3 hours one night trying to get it to go, but > couldn't. It's not listed as a "supported" distro =( Just make the missing directories.. /etc/rc0.d /etc/rc1.d /etc/rc2.d /etc/rc3.d /etc/rc4.d /etc/rc5.d /etc/rc6.d /etc/init.d This info is also on the VMware support site, IIRC. -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Wed Jul 10 18:44:03 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I want to go home:( Message-ID: <1227.204.220.56.194.1026339888.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> I am fairly new to sendmail, and having a tough time with configuring a new install. I am stuck on site till I get it figured out. This is what I have. I just installed everything on my redHat 7.3 CD's. I can telnet from the server to it's IP -p 25, and 110 Users can retrieve, but not send mail, and others can send mail to the server from the outside. I am using Webmin to manage it. This is the error I get when trying to send from an Outlook Express client: Relaying Temporarily denied. Cannot resolve PTR record for x.x.x.x port 25 In /etc/mail/access If I add the (private) IP address of the workstation which is trying to send the mail it all works perfectly. I have tried to enter the network number instead, but can't seem to find the right syntax for allowing a class C. Maybe my problem is something else entirely, but I sure could use some help, so I can hit the road. Thanks in advance -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From dante at plethora.net Wed Jul 10 19:43:55 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Last login report? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: > Does anyone know of a script/program that will generate some sort of > report (basically just run last on every user in passwd) from the wtmp > log? > > Seems like it would be something someone has done before. :) > Look for sac. It is beautiful. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Wed Jul 10 19:44:06 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I want to go home:( In-Reply-To: <1227.204.220.56.194.1026339888.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <1227.204.220.56.194.1026339888.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <1388.204.220.56.194.1026341743.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> I aced all my settings and started over. it all works now. Sorry for the bother. > I am fairly new to sendmail, and having a tough time with configuring a > new install. I am stuck on site till I get it figured out. > > This is what I have. > > > I just installed everything on my redHat 7.3 CD's. > > > I can telnet from the server to it's IP -p 25, and 110 > Users can retrieve, but not send mail, and others can send mail to the > server from the outside. I am using Webmin to manage it. > > This is the error I get when trying to send from an Outlook Express > client: > > Relaying Temporarily denied. Cannot resolve PTR record for x.x.x.x port > 25 > > > In /etc/mail/access > > If I add the (private) IP address of the workstation which is trying to > send the mail it all works perfectly. I have tried to enter the network > number instead, but can't seem to find the right syntax for allowing a > class C. Maybe my problem is something else entirely, but I sure could > use some help, so I can hit the road. > > Thanks in advance > -- > Raymond Norton > Little Crow Telemedia Network > 320-234-0270 > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From dsherman at real-time.com Wed Jul 10 19:49:06 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] I need a Cisco 678! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020710192912.00a215e0@popmail.real-time.com> >Anybody looking to off-load a Cisco 678 DSL router? Mine died yesterday, >and I am already feeling withdrawal symptoms :-( > >Please reply off-list to dsherman@real-time.com > >Thanks, >Dave From peter-clark at bethel.edu Wed Jul 10 20:14:39 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200207102009.06368.peter-clark@bethel.edu> On Wednesday 10 July 2002 14:25, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Peter Clark wrote: > > So last night, I was told to change the permissions of /dev/ttyS3 > > to crw-rw----, and it was good. But This morning when I tried to connect, > > the permissions had changed back to crw-r-----! I did not reboot or > > anything; the computer was on all night. > > nevermind rebooting, did you logout and login again... redhat used some > pam sorcery to set permissions for some "special" devices when you are the > first person to login locally... Well, I'm running Debian, and no, I didn't log out. As I said, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with KPPP (I'm running 3.0.2). Two minutes ago, I went off-line, and set the permissions to crw-rw----. Then I connected and immediately checked the permissions again: crw-r-----. Either that, or it could be something with ppp. I don't know, but it is driving me nuts trying to figure it out. :Peter From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 10 22:16:42 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: ; from nassarmu@redconcepts.net on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 02:27:46PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020710213221.C1270@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 02:27:46PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, MJ wrote: > > > > > Folks, > > > > I'm in need of an ISA NE2000 NIC. (NON-pnp) > > i think i still have a couple of the old 3c509s somewhere, they are pnp > but can be configured otherwise (though i do not recommend it, the pnp > logic on the cards is exceptional, even on non-pnp bioses) > > -munir Unless you're putting two in the same machine, then they both decide to use 0x300 for io, fortunately Donald Becker has written some excellent programs, and I was able to move the card to another io address (remotely) without losing any connectivity through the first (and working) 3c509 =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From waynej at dccmn.com Wed Jul 10 22:24:14 2002 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Modem woes continue References: <200207100939.54690.peter-clark@bethel.edu> <20020710102318.A3833@mail.el-swifto.com> <200207101238.12582.peter-clark@bethel.edu> <200207101702.41080.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Message-ID: <3D2CF876.7A650DC3@dccmn.com> Long long time ago, I was running cu (a dial out program) and uucp on a serial line on Solaris. While the device was in use by one of these programs the permissions were set to limit access by a single user. After disconnecting, it would set it back. I wonder if something like this is happening here. Try fuser on the port and see if anyone has it open? Peter Clark wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 July 2002 12:38, Peter Clark wrote: > Replying to myself here: > > I'm running Debian, so as far as I know there is no rouge program > > resetting my security settings. > I found the rouge program, or at least narrowed it down to two: either kppp > or ppp itself. I ran 'ls /dev/ttyS3' and saw that everything was good, > connected using kppp, and suddenly it's been reset to crw-r-----. > > > Plus, I still don't know why the modem is stuck at 3.1k. When I first > > dial-up, it's averaging between 5k and 6k, just like a 56k modem should, > > but then after a while it goes down to 3.1k. I've tried two ISPs and I get > > the same behavior, so it's a problem at my end. > The answers to both of these problems still elude me... > :Peter > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis From mike at jentges.net Wed Jul 10 22:25:45 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: Fw: [TCLUG] InstallFest Message-ID: <002601c22886$42cb1790$0696c7c7@victim> > Well what I've got is a real neat little device called "Team Internet" made > by an outfit called Apexx. > It's an internet sharing device that sports a 486 DX100 mobo, and older > release of Debian and is managed via a web interface. Right now it uses a > modem and a NE2k for the connection, but has all the software for a dual NIC > setup, some ISDN gadgets, etc. I pulled the cover, installed a video card, > plugged in a keyboard and got root a while back. iirc it runs a 2.0.31 > kernel, module support for a 3c515 or ne2k. > I think it was the 3c515 that was 3coms 'black sheep' right? I could > probably build a/the kernel with more mods but if at all possible I'd like > to avoid messing with it. It's about as stable and steady as I've ever seen. > Figured if I could get another ne2k it'd be a nice dsl firewall of sorts. > It's old software but it's tight. I don't do any forwarding or anything with > it. All closed. It's loaned to some friends but they'll have to do without > Saturday. Been wanting to try this for a long time, this seems like a > perfect chance. > > Anyone ever seen one of these? > > Thanks for all the response, BTW. :) > > -mj > > > > > I could probably lay my hands on one (isa w/ jumpers). Why would you like > > one? > > I do have other NE2000 compatible cards that have a DOS program > > that will lock down the IRQ and IO port settings. > > > > Kelly Black > > KB0GBJ > > > > On Wednesday 10 July 2002 13:21, MJ wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > > > I'm in need of an ISA NE2000 NIC. (NON-pnp) > > > I was planning on loading up > > > some hardware to bring to the installfest, and was wondering if anyone > > > might have one laying around they'd be liking to trade for something > > > specific. I can probably get around this, but life would be so much > easier > > > this way. :) > > > > > > If anyone has one and has a hankering for something I might have, please > > > let me know. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Mike Jentges > > > -- > > > Jentges.Net, Inc. > > > Voice: 763-783-3702 ************************************************** > > > Cell: 763-370-1201 **** Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.**** > > > http://jentges.net ************************************************** > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From waynej at dccmn.com Wed Jul 10 22:43:54 2002 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Replacement for ip_masq_ftp in RH 7.3 using ipchains Message-ID: <3D2CFCEC.E73D696A@dccmn.com> I have RH7.3 installed in my new internet gateway. I'm having problems with FTP to some servers (like tclug's) and I suspect my masquerading is screwing up the passive FTP. I tried adding ip_masq_ftp but it doesn't exist in 2.4 kernel networking. I'm guessing that I should be adding ip_nat_ftp.o but that gives errors. I think I remember that ip_nat_ftp only works with ip_tables and I'm still using ip_chains. I'd rather not have to replace my ipchains, unless I find that it's absolutely necessary. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone have the URL for Rusty's latest HOWTO? I keep finding outdated copies... TIA. -- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis From waynej at dccmn.com Wed Jul 10 22:44:08 2002 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH 7.3 and USB keyboard/mouse Message-ID: <3D2CFE24.63CA45A7@dccmn.com> Our school is looking at getting some new computers for a new internet gateway and fileservers. The our Admin found a system he likes but it only comes with a USB keyboard and mouse. Is Linux USB workable for a keyboard and mouse? TIA. -- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jul 10 23:28:18 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH 7.3 and USB keyboard/mouse In-Reply-To: <3D2CFE24.63CA45A7@dccmn.com> Message-ID: I'm using a USB keyboard and mouse with Mandrake 8.2, and have been since Mandrake 8.0; I believe that USB support is standard, these days. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:40 PM > To: tclug; Doug Coats > Subject: [TCLUG] RH 7.3 and USB keyboard/mouse > > > Our school is looking at getting some new computers for a new internet > gateway and fileservers. The our Admin found a system he likes but it > only comes with a USB keyboard and mouse. > > Is Linux USB workable for a keyboard and mouse? > > TIA. > > -- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 10 23:28:27 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Ok, so I got a shiny new Samsung ML-1450. Pretty sweet printer for $237. Laser, 1200x1200dpi, 15ppm, and a network and postscript option (neither of which I could find anywhere). What's the best printing system to use for it? CUPS or lprng? I set up cups, but there's no driver for it, so I had to use the HP LaserJet driver. It's not really a driver, more of a config file for it. The driver itself is the printer.o module for usb printers. Anyway, I can print a test page, but when trying to print using lpr or through Konqueror, I get a bunch of garbage. Anyone have any pointers for making my sexy new printer work nicely? Jay From mike at jentges.net Thu Jul 11 00:54:42 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest References: <20020710213221.C1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <005101c22896$678155d0$0696c7c7@victim> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 02:27:46PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, MJ wrote: > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > I'm in need of an ISA NE2000 NIC. (NON-pnp) > > > > i think i still have a couple of the old 3c509s somewhere, they are pnp > > but can be configured otherwise (though i do not recommend it, the pnp > > logic on the cards is exceptional, even on non-pnp bioses) > > > > -munir > > Unless you're putting two in the same machine, then they both decide to > use 0x300 for io, fortunately Donald Becker has written some excellent > programs, and I was able to move the card to another io address (remotely) > without losing any connectivity through the first (and working) 3c509 =) > That's where the 3c5x9cfg.exe comes in. you just have to show them who's boss. I've got 2 of them in my firewall. the software config works awesome. :) Just throw it on a dos boot floppy. -mj > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jul 11 01:12:23 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200207110056.38238.list@slushpupie.com> Are you using RedHat? If so make sure that when you use the lp* commands, they are going to Cups. By default they are for LPRng. I know the latest versions anyway use the alternitives system (from debian) to allow switching easily. I have the ML-1250 and like it a lot. I use Cups, because I like the nice web interface for it.. and management under cups with a network makes more logical sence to me than the lpr style. I have mine set up on Debian, and had all sorts of troubles with USB permissions screwing things up, so I went to using Paralell (I dont do that much printing so the speed difference dosnt bother me) Jay On Wednesday 10 July 2002 11:15 pm, Austad, Jay wrote: > Ok, so I got a shiny new Samsung ML-1450. Pretty sweet printer for $237. > Laser, 1200x1200dpi, 15ppm, and a network and postscript option (neither of > which I could find anywhere). > > What's the best printing system to use for it? CUPS or lprng? I set up > cups, but there's no driver for it, so I had to use the HP LaserJet driver. > It's not really a driver, more of a config file for it. The driver itself > is the printer.o module for usb printers. > > Anyway, I can print a test page, but when trying to print using lpr or > through Konqueror, I get a bunch of garbage. > > Anyone have any pointers for making my sexy new printer work nicely? > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cgahlon at citilink.com Thu Jul 11 01:15:17 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH 7.3 and USB keyboard/mouse References: <3D2CFE24.63CA45A7@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <3D2D1213.9070103@citilink.com> Wayne Johnson wrote: > Our school is looking at getting some new computers for a new internet > gateway and fileservers. The our Admin found a system he likes but it > only comes with a USB keyboard and mouse. > > Is Linux USB workable for a keyboard and mouse? > > TIA. Yep. I'm on my Redhat 7.3 box typing with my USB keyboard and clickin with my usb mouse to send this email. Cheers, Chris From ndavis at iexposure.com Thu Jul 11 08:19:28 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200207110806.56667.ndavis@iexposure.com> The way I do things is this: I set the printer up in CUPS, then when I want to print I use kprinter (If I recall correctly, you do use kde). kprinter myfile kprinter will convert it to .ps if it isn't already and do all of the page formatting that might be necessary. I have found that by printing directly to the printer using lpr or lpr-cups from Opera,Netscape,Konq etc.. I often get garbage printed out:( Nick On Wednesday 10 July 2002 23:15, Austad, Jay wrote: > Ok, so I got a shiny new Samsung ML-1450. Pretty sweet printer for $237. > Laser, 1200x1200dpi, 15ppm, and a network and postscript option (neither of > which I could find anywhere). > > What's the best printing system to use for it? CUPS or lprng? I set up > cups, but there's no driver for it, so I had to use the HP LaserJet driver. > It's not really a driver, more of a config file for it. The driver itself > is the printer.o module for usb printers. > > Anyway, I can print a test page, but when trying to print using lpr or > through Konqueror, I get a bunch of garbage. > > Anyone have any pointers for making my sexy new printer work nicely? > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From nate at refried.org Thu Jul 11 08:59:14 2002 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257205@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020711140246.GA23892@refried.org> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 11:15:03PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > What's the best printing system to use for it? CUPS or lprng? I set up > cups, but there's no driver for it, so I had to use the HP LaserJet driver. > It's not really a driver, more of a config file for it. The driver itself > is the printer.o module for usb printers. There are many more pieces to the printing puzzle than just CUPS or lprng. Those, IIRC, are just spoolers. They don't know how to figure out what you're printing (ps, text, jpeg, html, etc) or what language your printer understands (ps, pcl, printgear, etc). The printer.o module is just the USB printer driver which is analogous to the parallel port driver parport_pc.o. It just gives you a device to send data to. > Anyone have any pointers for making my sexy new printer work nicely? http://www.linuxprinting.org/ This is hands down the best Linux printing site I've ever come across. Their foomatic scripts work great and they have a great printer database. Nate From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jul 11 09:45:07 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian considered harmful? In-Reply-To: <20020710174043.C26195@real-time.com> References: <20020629110226.D7322@joelschneider.net> <20020629173844.GA11940@refried.org> <001401c21fe5$ca1bda30$f100cb0a@corpnet.lawson.com> <20020630234425.GD13204@refried.org> <20020630225844.02d403c3.sfertch@real-time.com> <20020702122032.L9874@real-time.com> <3D2651C7.78938775@mailandnews.com> <20020709160329.Q29533@real-time.com> <20020710110855.G15349@sherohman.org> <20020710174043.C26195@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020711142112.GA1873@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 05:40:43PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: DIE THREAD DIE DIE DIE DIE! -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020711/900eefe1/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jul 11 09:46:53 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EED@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I'm using Gentoo. I'd like to get the PostScript card for the printer, but I can't find it anywhere. No one sells the damn thing. Then I could set it up just as a standard postscript printer and not worry about all that other crap. I got the latest version of cups, but it doesn't have a driver for the printer. Where did you get the driver for your ML-1250? Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Kline [mailto:list@slushpupie.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:57 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff > > > Are you using RedHat? If so make sure that when you use the > lp* commands, > they are going to Cups. By default they are for LPRng. I > know the latest > versions anyway use the alternitives system (from debian) to > allow switching > easily. > > I have the ML-1250 and like it a lot. I use Cups, because I > like the nice web > interface for it.. and management under cups with a network > makes more > logical sence to me than the lpr style. > > I have mine set up on Debian, and had all sorts of troubles with USB > permissions screwing things up, so I went to using Paralell > (I dont do that > much printing so the speed difference dosnt bother me) > > Jay > > > > On Wednesday 10 July 2002 11:15 pm, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Ok, so I got a shiny new Samsung ML-1450. Pretty sweet printer for > > $237. Laser, 1200x1200dpi, 15ppm, and a network and > postscript option > > (neither of which I could find anywhere). > > > > What's the best printing system to use for it? CUPS or > lprng? I set > > up cups, but there's no driver for it, so I had to use the > HP LaserJet > > driver. It's not really a driver, more of a config file for > it. The > > driver itself is the printer.o module for usb printers. > > > > Anyway, I can print a test page, but when trying to print > using lpr or > > through Konqueror, I get a bunch of garbage. > > > > Anyone have any pointers for making my sexy new printer work nicely? > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From list at slushpupie.com Thu Jul 11 10:18:50 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EED@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EED@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200207111010.39876.list@slushpupie.com> The box said it had Linux support on it, and when I looked, it said to use the HP LaserJet drivers. Apparently it uses the same protocol as the HP LaserJet (I even tried using the HP drivers on Windows and they worked) so the HP LaserJet drivers are what I use, and have no problems. Jay On Thursday 11 July 2002 9:28 am, Austad, Jay wrote: > I'm using Gentoo. I'd like to get the PostScript card for the printer, but > I can't find it anywhere. No one sells the damn thing. Then I could set > it up just as a standard postscript printer and not worry about all that > other crap. > > I got the latest version of cups, but it doesn't have a driver for the > printer. Where did you get the driver for your ML-1250? > > Jay > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jay Kline [mailto:list@slushpupie.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:57 AM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff > > > > > > Are you using RedHat? If so make sure that when you use the > > lp* commands, > > they are going to Cups. By default they are for LPRng. I > > know the latest > > versions anyway use the alternitives system (from debian) to > > allow switching > > easily. > > > > I have the ML-1250 and like it a lot. I use Cups, because I > > like the nice web > > interface for it.. and management under cups with a network > > makes more > > logical sence to me than the lpr style. > > > > I have mine set up on Debian, and had all sorts of troubles with USB > > permissions screwing things up, so I went to using Paralell > > (I dont do that > > much printing so the speed difference dosnt bother me) > > > > Jay > > > > On Wednesday 10 July 2002 11:15 pm, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > Ok, so I got a shiny new Samsung ML-1450. Pretty sweet printer for > > > $237. Laser, 1200x1200dpi, 15ppm, and a network and > > > > postscript option > > > > > (neither of which I could find anywhere). > > > > > > What's the best printing system to use for it? CUPS or > > > > lprng? I set > > > > > up cups, but there's no driver for it, so I had to use the > > > > HP LaserJet > > > > > driver. It's not really a driver, more of a config file for > > > > it. The > > > > > driver itself is the printer.o module for usb printers. > > > > > > Anyway, I can print a test page, but when trying to print > > > > using lpr or > > > > > through Konqueror, I get a bunch of garbage. > > > > > > Anyone have any pointers for making my sexy new printer work nicely? > > > > > > Jay > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From amy at real-time.com Thu Jul 11 10:23:02 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] printer drivers and stuff In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EED@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 09:28:47AM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887EED@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020711101235.W2959@real-time.com> On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 09:28:47AM -0500, Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com) wrote: > I'm using Gentoo. I'd like to get the PostScript card for the printer, but > I can't find it anywhere. No one sells the damn thing. Then I could set it > up just as a standard postscript printer and not worry about all that other > crap. > > I got the latest version of cups, but it doesn't have a driver for the > printer. Where did you get the driver for your ML-1250? You should just need the printer's PPD file, which you can probably download from the manufacturer's website or get off the printer installation CD. Drop it in /etc/cups/ppd and tell cups which ppd file to use. (This is from memory - I haven't worked with cups since Dec.). -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020711/ff382ffc/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jul 11 12:19:58 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: Fw: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: <002601c22886$42cb1790$0696c7c7@victim>; from mike@jentges.net on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 09:54:22PM -0500 References: <002601c22886$42cb1790$0696c7c7@victim> Message-ID: <20020711121127.S24214@real-time.com> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 09:54:22PM -0500, Mike Jentges wrote: > > Well what I've got is a real neat little device called "Team Internet" > made > > by an outfit called Apexx. > > Anyone ever seen one of these? yeah, back in the day, they tried to sell me one of those things. I looked at it for a little while, but figured out eventually that there was nothing special about it. I was under the impression they ran BSDi; but I guess I was wrong. :) I'll see if I still have any NE2K boards lying around. I know I gave away a stack of them a while ago. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jimstreit at northlans.com Thu Jul 11 16:56:25 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot Message-ID: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. Heres what I've tried so far. Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a little bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. Installed RedHat 7.3 The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. Reinstalled win 2000 Reinstalled RH 7.3 The second time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the /boot partition. Now I can boot to windows fine, but I can't boot to RH. When I boot on the Linux boot disk that is created during RH install, the floppy starts to boot but part way through I get an error. I've read a bunch of stuff about copy files from one partition to another and modifiying each other OS boot loader, but the main problem for me is that I can only get to one or the other depending on the install. I'm never able to "reboot" and select an OS at startup. Can someone point me in the right direction, or to instructions that would help me. Thanks Jim Streit From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Thu Jul 11 17:46:59 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot Message-ID: <2c883a34040e6707d2@[172.29.97.10]> Did you check the box to make a selection in Grub for Windows? If when you booted, you only saw Redhat as an option in Grub, I'll bet that is what happened. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Streit [SMTP:jimstreit@northlans.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 1:50 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot > > I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. > Heres what I've tried so far. > > Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a little > bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. > Installed RedHat 7.3 > > The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could > boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. > IPC MMII From john at schererzoo.com Thu Jul 11 18:03:08 2002 From: john at schererzoo.com (John Scherer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Message-ID: <01a101c2292c$4fccd900$0400a8c0@leftfish.com> are you using a /boot partition? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Streit" To: Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot > I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. > Heres what I've tried so far. > > Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a little > bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. > Installed RedHat 7.3 > > The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could > boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. > > Reinstalled win 2000 > Reinstalled RH 7.3 > > The second time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the /boot partition. > > Now I can boot to windows fine, but I can't boot to RH. When I boot > on the Linux boot disk that is created during RH install, the floppy > starts to boot but part way through I get an error. > > I've read a bunch of stuff about copy files from one partition to > another and modifiying each other OS boot loader, but the main > problem for me is that I can only get to one or the other depending > on the install. I'm never able to "reboot" and select an OS at > startup. > > Can someone point me in the right direction, or to instructions that > would help me. > > Thanks > Jim Streit > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bneigebauer at attbi.com Thu Jul 11 20:26:43 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CUPS Printing from Max OSX References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> <01a101c2292c$4fccd900$0400a8c0@leftfish.com> Message-ID: <3D2E2DB3.3020809@attbi.com> I set up CUPS on my linux machine and can print a test page. It was kind of a bear because my printer is an Okidata Okipage 4W (In other words, a winprinter) I can get it to print from CUPS (print test page) I can't get it to print from the Mac (running OSX 10.1.3) I am choosing the LPR option. Am I doing something wrong? From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Jul 11 21:05:28 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot In-Reply-To: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020711203925.251e5d5a.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:49:51 -0500 (CDT) "Jim Streit" wrote: > I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. > Heres what I've tried so far. > > Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a little > bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. > Installed RedHat 7.3 > > The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could > boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. > I ran into the same issue with RH 7.2 doing the same thing. I switched from GRUB to LILO and was/am able to boot fine. I also found for some reason that Win2k doesn't erase the boot sector like Win9x/Me/XP does. -- Shawn sfertch@real-time.com Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, 2002) for Multiple Sclerosis: https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 From amy at real-time.com Thu Jul 11 21:29:08 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot In-Reply-To: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com>; from jimstreit@northlans.com on Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 01:49:51PM -0500 References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20020711212744.F4064@real-time.com> On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 01:49:51PM -0500, Jim Streit (jimstreit@northlans.com) wrote: > I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. > Heres what I've tried so far. > > Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a little > bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. > Installed RedHat 7.3 > > The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could > boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. It's easiest if you install Windows first, then Linux, then use grub as your bootloader. You'll need to add an entry in your grub.conf that looks something like this: title Windows 2000 rootnoverify (hd0,0) chainloader +1 hd0,0 says first partition of your first drive, which it should be if you install Windows first. There are several howto guides on this topic. Look at www.tldp.org or google-search. -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020711/3ee7a109/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jul 12 00:22:12 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: <005101c22896$678155d0$0696c7c7@victim>; from mike@jentges.net on Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 11:49:56PM -0500 References: <20020710213221.C1270@techmonkeys.org> <005101c22896$678155d0$0696c7c7@victim> Message-ID: <20020711225619.G1270@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 11:49:56PM -0500, Mike Jentges wrote: > That's where the 3c5x9cfg.exe comes in. you just have to show them who's > boss. I've got 2 of them in my firewall. the software config works awesome. > :) Just throw it on a dos boot floppy. > > -mj > I was actually referring to the program Donald Becker wrote that does pretty much the same thing that 3c5x9cfg.exe does, except it's open source =P (And I managed to do it remotely, without rebooting..) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jul 12 00:26:46 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] CUPS Printing from Max OSX In-Reply-To: <3D2E2DB3.3020809@attbi.com>; from bneigebauer@attbi.com on Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 08:15:31PM -0500 References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> <01a101c2292c$4fccd900$0400a8c0@leftfish.com> <3D2E2DB3.3020809@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020711230917.H1270@techmonkeys.org> Hi! You've successfully hijacked a thread, unfortunately this means that most people ignored your message for one of the following reasons: 1) They were ignoring the thread that you hijacked, and your message was threaded under it. 2) They ignore people who hijack threads. Most people don't fully understand what 'thread hijacking' is, when you send an email message your email client adds a special tag in the message header that's pretty much unique, then when people reply to that message your email client puts a tag in that says 'This message is in reply to that message'. This makes it so that nifty mail readers can sort messages more efficiently[1]. You may be wondering, 'But how did *I* hijack a thread if I didn't even know what it was!' Well, generally this happens when you're too lazy to click 'compose message' or 'new message' and type in the address, instead you press the reply button in your reader, then change the subject of the message, thinking that you've created a whole new message (while saving yourself the effort of typing in 'tclug-list@mn-linux.org', i know, it's taxing!). Unfortunately your email program is sneaky, and knows that you pressed the reply button, and still puts that magic 'This message is in reply to that message' header in there! [1] http://www.poptix.net/thread-hijack1.png http://www.poptix.net/thread-hijack2.png These are examples of thread hijacking, and a mail reader that 'threads', or groups messages, in the example you can see that 'Bob Tanner' started a new thread with the subject 'greyhatpak additions?', then a person named 'Andrew Nemchenko' "hijacked" the thread, and wanted to say something about 'some small OT but usefull news', needless to say, he got flamed =) Have a wonderful day. On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 08:15:31PM -0500, BN wrote: [snip] -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From ben_b at ppdonline.com Fri Jul 12 01:33:20 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: E-commerce? Message-ID: <3D2E7479.63CAFD05@ppdonline.com> Hello, I know this is off topic but some of you are involved in web development and might be able to help me out. I'm building a site and need to support credit card transactions. I'm looking for a provider that will allow me to write my own CGI scripts (in C) that will query against their server to verify credit card transactions (my current merchant account doesn't allow me to). So somebody with a C lib I could use with my code would be great but a well documented protocol without a pre-built library would be fine too (I can write my own if the protocol is well laid out). Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations, cost of service is always an issue but I'd also like a company that's developer friendly. Thanks and sorry for the OT post, Ben. From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Jul 12 03:41:46 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: <20020711225619.G1270@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 10:56:19PM -0500 References: <20020710213221.C1270@techmonkeys.org> <005101c22896$678155d0$0696c7c7@victim> <20020711225619.G1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020712021839.A26388@okane.localnet> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I was actually referring to the program Donald Becker wrote that does > pretty much the same thing that 3c5x9cfg.exe does, except it's open > source =P and that program's name is ... ??? It'd be great to config 3com cards under linux exclusively. -- -scot From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jul 12 04:57:09 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest In-Reply-To: <20020712021839.A26388@okane.localnet>; from scot@thinkunix.net on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 02:18:39AM -0500 References: <20020710213221.C1270@techmonkeys.org> <005101c22896$678155d0$0696c7c7@victim> <20020711225619.G1270@techmonkeys.org> <20020712021839.A26388@okane.localnet> Message-ID: <20020712045311.O1270@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 02:18:39AM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: The URL is here, it includes many other programs for other ethernet card vendors: http://www.scyld.com/diag/ Here's the program I was talking about: http://www.scyld.com/diag/3c5x9setup.html > and that program's name is ... ??? > It'd be great to config 3com cards under linux exclusively. > > -- > -scot -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jul 12 04:57:29 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity Message-ID: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> Hi, I got bored, and wrote a little program to sift through mail archives and spit out this wonderful data about the percentage of posts made with particular e-mail programs, the dataset used is from the beginning of the mailing list to the current date (January, 1970 - April, 2007): 28.0825 percent, Mutt 18.3068 percent, Pine 14.0702 percent, Microsoft Total (Outlook, Outlook Express, Exchange, etc) 13.2562 percent, Mozilla (Netscape) 5.8466 percent, Internet Mail Service (Exchange) 5.1556 percent, KMail 4.8444 percent, Microsoft Outlook Express 3.2489 percent, Microsoft Outlook 2.8473 percent, Sylpheed 2.8003 (774 messages) percent, Unknown 2.5289 percent, Evolution 1.5159 percent, Gnus/Emacs 1.2084 percent, Eudora 1.1469 percent, Yahoo! 0.7634 percent, Elm 0.6693 percent, VM 0.5355 percent, Squirrel Mail 0.4559 percent, Hotmail 0.2713 percent, Web Mail 0.2207 percent, Lotus Notes 0.1085 percent, Forte Agent 0.0507 percent, DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 0.0470 percent, MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) 0.0434 percent, Apple Mail 0.0398 percent, exmh 0.0289 percent, TWIG 0.0253 percent, Pocomail 0.0145 percent, Opera 0.0145 percent, Microsoft-Entourage 0.0145 percent, Excite Inbox 0.0109 percent, IMail 0.0109 percent, CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer 0.0109 percent, AeroMail 0.0072 percent, stuphead ver. 0.5.3 (Wiskas) 0.0072 percent, My Own Email 0.0072 percent, Calypso 0.0036 percent, The Bat! 0.0036 percent, Mulberry Total messages: 27640 (Unfortunately, people in the year 2007 are still running old versions of Outlook Express: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jul 12 08:06:39 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 04:50:24AM -0500 References: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020712075822.U21455@real-time.com> > (Unfortunately, people in the year 2007 are still running old versions of > Outlook Express: > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 =) Hahahah! Made my day. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From florin at iucha.net Fri Jul 12 08:08:20 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020712125545.GA2656@iucha.net> The numbers might be right, but your interpretation is wrong. This just show that people that use mutt are twice as active on the list than people that use Micro$oft MUAs. florin PS: ...or that pople that use mutt are more likely to engage in flame-fests that fill the list... PS/2: Mutt rulez! On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 04:50:24AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Hi, > > I got bored, and wrote a little program to sift through mail archives > and spit out this wonderful data about the percentage of posts made > with particular e-mail programs, the dataset used is from the beginning > of the mailing list to the current date (January, 1970 - April, 2007): > > 28.0825 percent, Mutt > 18.3068 percent, Pine > 14.0702 percent, Microsoft Total (Outlook, Outlook Express, Exchange, etc) > 13.2562 percent, Mozilla (Netscape) > 5.8466 percent, Internet Mail Service (Exchange) > 5.1556 percent, KMail > 4.8444 percent, Microsoft Outlook Express > 3.2489 percent, Microsoft Outlook > 2.8473 percent, Sylpheed > 2.8003 (774 messages) percent, Unknown > 2.5289 percent, Evolution > 1.5159 percent, Gnus/Emacs > 1.2084 percent, Eudora > 1.1469 percent, Yahoo! > 0.7634 percent, Elm > 0.6693 percent, VM > 0.5355 percent, Squirrel Mail > 0.4559 percent, Hotmail > 0.2713 percent, Web Mail > 0.2207 percent, Lotus Notes > 0.1085 percent, Forte Agent > 0.0507 percent, DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway > 0.0470 percent, MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) > 0.0434 percent, Apple Mail > 0.0398 percent, exmh > 0.0289 percent, TWIG > 0.0253 percent, Pocomail > 0.0145 percent, Opera > 0.0145 percent, Microsoft-Entourage > 0.0145 percent, Excite Inbox > 0.0109 percent, IMail > 0.0109 percent, CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer > 0.0109 percent, AeroMail > 0.0072 percent, stuphead ver. 0.5.3 (Wiskas) > 0.0072 percent, My Own Email > 0.0072 percent, Calypso > 0.0036 percent, The Bat! > 0.0036 percent, Mulberry > Total messages: 27640 > > (Unfortunately, people in the year 2007 are still running old versions of > Outlook Express: > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 =) > > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020712/bb2969f5/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 12 09:34:10 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F28@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> About a month ago, I signed up with Vonage.com for their Digital phone service. It communicates over port 5060/udp using my ATT cable modem for connectivity. It worked great up until last week, then I couldn't make or receive calls anymore. Using a sniffer, I determined that packets from Vonage were not making it back to my network. I contacted vonage, and they said everything was fine on their end and it was my firewall that was blocking it. They sent me a tcpdump which showed that returning packets were being blocked. However, a closer look showed that the device doing the blocking, was not the ip of my firewall, but a different device 2 hops away from me on att's network. The device is performing NAT on *only* my 5060/udp traffic, web and other traffic work fine. It's changing the source IP and the source port, and then it's not allowing returning UDP packets back through, so it breaks my connection. Why the hell would ATT be blocking my SIP traffic? Is it because they want me to buy their digital phone service and they are blocking competition? Isn't it illegal to tamper with the communication of a telephone line? Does anyone know somebody at ATT that might be able to tell me what's going on? Their tech support is clueless, and they just tell me to reboot my computer and modem. This is really pissing me off. ==================== Jay Austad Network Administrator CBS MarketWatch 612.752.1132 From bneigebauer at attbi.com Fri Jul 12 10:07:13 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F28@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D2EEE31.6040407@attbi.com> Do you think this is happening to everyone with AT&T? I was thinking about getting the vonage service, but was leary about AT&T connection problems. Maybe we should set up a test program to spew 5060/udp packets to someone and see if they get received. Maybe they have it setup for just going vonage? I did speed test with their online speed test and I was getting 814 Kbps down, 184 up. Austad, Jay wrote: >About a month ago, I signed up with Vonage.com for their Digital phone >service. It communicates over port 5060/udp using my ATT cable modem for >connectivity. It worked great up until last week, then I couldn't make or >receive calls anymore. Using a sniffer, I determined that packets from >Vonage were not making it back to my network. I contacted vonage, and they >said everything was fine on their end and it was my firewall that was >blocking it. They sent me a tcpdump which showed that returning packets >were being blocked. However, a closer look showed that the device doing the >blocking, was not the ip of my firewall, but a different device 2 hops away >from me on att's network. The device is performing NAT on *only* my >5060/udp traffic, web and other traffic work fine. It's changing the source >IP and the source port, and then it's not allowing returning UDP packets >back through, so it breaks my connection. > >Why the hell would ATT be blocking my SIP traffic? Is it because they want >me to buy their digital phone service and they are blocking competition? >Isn't it illegal to tamper with the communication of a telephone line? > >Does anyone know somebody at ATT that might be able to tell me what's going >on? Their tech support is clueless, and they just tell me to reboot my >computer and modem. This is really pissing me off. > >==================== >Jay Austad >Network Administrator >CBS MarketWatch >612.752.1132 >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Jul 12 10:12:13 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Free Hardware at the Installfest Message-ID: <20020712100145.A27287@gordo.space.umn.edu> I'm moving in a couple of weeks, so I'm cleaning out a bunch of old hardware that I haven't been using much. I've got some details listed over at the TCLUG classifieds [1], but I thought I'd post here because I'd prefer to give the stuff away at the Installfest tomorrow. I'm giving away a Sparc IPX with monitor, a Compaq Presario Pentium 133 without monitor, and a V3 Racing Wheel with joystick connectors. I also may be giving away a 1.6 GB and a 2 GB external SCSI disk, but I haven't checked them to make sure they actually work yet. If you're interested in any of it and want more info, feel free to email me off list. If you want specific details that I can't remember, I might have to get back to you tonight since the hardware is all at home. 1. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?catagory=free -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 12 10:19:12 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: E-commerce? Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F27@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> The OS Commerce project has a list of merchant account providers/gateways. http://www.oscommerce.com Oh, and OS Commerce is GPL if you decide to use their software. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Bargabus [mailto:ben_b@ppdonline.com] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 1:17 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: E-commerce? > > > Hello, > I know this is off topic but some of you are involved in web > development and might be able to help me out. I'm building a > site and need to support credit card transactions. I'm > looking for a provider that will allow me to write my own CGI > scripts (in C) that will query against their server to verify > credit card transactions (my current merchant account doesn't > allow me to). So somebody with a C lib I could use with my > code would be great but a well documented protocol without a > pre-built library would be fine too (I can write my own if > the protocol is well laid out). Anyway, I'm looking for > recommendations, cost of service is always an issue but I'd > also like a company that's developer friendly. Thanks and > sorry for the OT post, Ben. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Jul 12 10:41:32 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F28@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 09:29:28AM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F28@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020712102450.D7471@wookimus.net> Sounds like something you should talk to ATT tech support about. AT&T does their own digital phone service and could be routing calls through that. You never can be sure why AT&T does things the way they do, but it usually involves money. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 12 10:42:01 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F30@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Maybe we should set up a test program to spew 5060/udp packets to > someone and see if they get received. Maybe they have it > setup for just > going vonage? Possibly, I haven't tested it to anywhere else, or tested using different udp ports. The packets make it to vonage, but vonage packets never make it back. They just implemented this NAT device last week, and I'm unable to find out why. > I did speed test with their online speed test and I was > getting 814 Kbps > down, 184 up. Vonage uses the g711 codec, which takes up 64kbps. I don't know why they don't use g723 or something which uses lower bandwidth. g723 uses about 5kbps, and the quality is pretty much indistinguishable through a phone speaker. Jay From esper at sherohman.org Fri Jul 12 11:01:46 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading Message-ID: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> I'm going to be venturing out soon and spending some time in areas where net access will be intermittent, at best, so I'm looking for suggestions on how best to set things up on my laptop and mail server. My preferred software for online mail is the combination of mutt and exim. I figure that simply modifying the cron job that runs exim's queue on the laptop to only do so when online should pretty well handle outgoing mail. For incoming mail, adding fetchmail to the mix is the obvious solution. However, my recollection of past experience with fetchmail is that it only allows the options of deleting all mail from the server as it is collected or never deleting mail from the server. But what I want is something similar to various GUI MUA's option to delete mail from the server once it has been deleted on the client. Another wrench in the works is that the server is already breaking my mail out into several mailboxes. Without duplicating all the filtering on the laptop as it is retrieved, this does not fit in well with the way that fetchmail operates. I suppose one (slightly oddball) option would be to use CVS to synchronize /var/spool/mail and ~/Mail, but a) I don't really want to maintain a version history of my mailboxes and b) yeah, it would work, and probably be fairly efficient, but somehow it just seems Wrong. Anyone have a better way of accomplishing what I want? -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 12 11:13:47 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F37@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Well, I just tested, and 5060/udp traffic that is not destined for Vonage's network is not NAT'd. So, they've either fixed the problem since last night, or they are only NAT'ing traffic that goes to Vonage. I'll have to test the phone when I get home to see if they've actually fixed it, or are breaking it purposely. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad C. Walstrom [mailto:chewie@wookimus.net] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 10:25 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic > > > Sounds like something you should talk to ATT tech support > about. AT&T does their own digital phone service and could > be routing calls through that. You never can be sure why > AT&T does things the way they do, but it usually involves money. > > -- > Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie > http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bneigebauer at attbi.com Fri Jul 12 11:14:04 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F30@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D2EFE45.2080405@attbi.com> Austad, Jay wrote: >>Maybe we should set up a test program to spew 5060/udp packets to >>someone and see if they get received. Maybe they have it >>setup for just >>going vonage? >> >> > >Possibly, I haven't tested it to anywhere else, or tested using different >udp ports. The packets make it to vonage, but vonage packets never make it >back. They just implemented this NAT device last week, and I'm unable to >find out why. > AT&T might claim that the Cisco box is a Server, and therefore not allowed on their network. I had a friend in St. Paul that couldn't accept incoming connections for game hosting. Called AT&T, they wouldn't help us. We weren't supposed to be doing that. Apparantly AT&T wants us to use broadband for just Web surfing, instant messaging, and email. Email and Instant messaging are both low bandwidth. HTTP is tons of small connections bursting every so often (you take time to read the web pages) and is easily cacheable. (Lots of people going to yahoo,cnn and such) Everyone isn't retrieving data at the exact same time. These support their profits quite well. They dump a ton of users on a smaller pipe, pretending to give the all this bandwidth. Then, when they really want it (like broadband SHOULD be used) they create a big stink. Think about the things they don't like: VOIP (with Vonage apparantly) VPN's GAMING servers All things with constant high bit rates. > > > >>I did speed test with their online speed test and I was >>getting 814 Kbps >>down, 184 up. >> >> > >Vonage uses the g711 codec, which takes up 64kbps. I don't know why they >don't use g723 or something which uses lower bandwidth. g723 uses about >5kbps, and the quality is pretty much indistinguishable through a phone >speaker. > > My experience with g723 was that it sounded terrible. It may have a difference depending on the quality of of your phone. Seriously, I would say with bandwidth is important for VOIP, but its easy to obtiain (64kbps is uncompressed basically). Its harder to get the latency low enough so that it doesn't seem like your are talking to someone in Russia or China (or any place far away). >Jay >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Jul 12 11:16:59 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F30@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F30@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020712110824.A20811@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Friday, Jul 12, 2002), Austad, Jay was madly tapping out: > > Maybe we should set up a test program to spew 5060/udp packets to > > someone and see if they get received. Maybe they have it setup for > > just going vonage? > > Possibly, I haven't tested it to anywhere else, or tested using > different udp ports. The packets make it to vonage, but vonage > packets never make it back. They just implemented this NAT device > last week, and I'm unable to find out why. > > > I did speed test with their online speed test and I was getting > > 814 Kbps down, 184 up. > > Vonage uses the g711 codec, which takes up 64kbps. I don't know why > they don't use g723 or something which uses lower bandwidth. g723 > uses about 5kbps, and the quality is pretty much indistinguishable > through a phone speaker. it's not indistinguishable from a DSP perspective. it entails significantly more aggressive compression and their head end boxes may not support it. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From wlayer at attbi.com Fri Jul 12 11:17:18 2002 From: wlayer at attbi.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATTBI on it's collective face Message-ID: <20020712110740.1ae842f6.wlayer@attbi.com> Anyone have a grasp on what the _real_ problem is with attbi these days? What is up with this host (12.126.248.73)? PING mail.attbi.com (216.148.227.71) from 10.0.0.2 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from mail.attbi.com (216.148.227.71): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=1504 ms PING google.com (216.239.51.100) from 10.0.0.2 : 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from www.google.com (216.239.51.100): icmp_seq=1 ttl=42 time=1538 ms traceroute to mail.attbi.com (216.148.227.71), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 wiggum (10.0.0.1) 2.205 ms 1.911 ms 1.804 ms 2 10.229.184.1 (10.229.184.1) 11.345 ms 10.878 ms 11.908 ms 3 ubr02-p1-0.minnhe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.210) 15.313 ms 12.494 ms 10.014 ms 4 bic03-p5-0.rosehe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.214) 11.184 ms 11.593 ms 10.815 ms 5 12.126.248.73 (12.126.248.73) 1508.035 ms 1481.069 ms 1483.360 ms traceroute to google.com (216.239.35.100), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 wiggum (10.0.0.1) 2.444 ms 2.066 ms 1.876 ms 2 10.229.184.1 (10.229.184.1) 13.018 ms 27.557 ms 13.929 ms 3 ubr02-p1-0.minnhe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.210) 15.502 ms 17.374 ms 21.859 ms 4 bic03-p5-0.rosehe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.214) 18.383 ms 10.567 ms 20.942 ms 5 12.126.248.73 (12.126.248.73) 1512.904 ms 1527.881 ms 1575.885 ms -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- From amy at real-time.com Fri Jul 12 11:56:01 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mutt & postponed messages Message-ID: <20020712114327.N2959@real-time.com> In mutt, I have postponed messages that I want to keep, but I want to create a new message (not use my postponed messages). How can I do this? If I have 1 postponed message, 'm' will bring up that postponed message. Then I can either use it, or quit the message and 'not postpone'. If I have multiple postponed messages, 'm' will bring up the postponed messages menu listing all my postponed messages, which I can then select to use or delete. But I can't find a way to tell it to keep my postponed messages and just let me create a new one. This is something that has bugged me for a long time. Thanks. -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020712/806ddc10/attachment.pgp From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Jul 12 12:32:40 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020712122626.B20811@botwerks.org> dave- i travel a ton for work and i ran into this problem a long time ago. here's an overview of how i do it. when i'm on the road and i want this functionality i uncomment a recipe in procmail that will dup all INBOX messages (after they've been filtered for mailing list content and run through SA) to another mailbox which i get via fetchmail using IMAP. mailing lists are more problematic. since i use MailDir format on my mail server, i have procmail dup the lists that i'm interested in to mbox messages in another directory tree, i then rsync (via ssh) this tree from the road. this creates an out of sync condition when i get home which i have to address by using mutt's stellar date selection and tagging mechanisms. this typically takes just a couple of minutes to tag all messages within a date range and mark them as read for all of the lists i read. when last we saw our hero (Friday, Jul 12, 2002), Dave Sherohman was madly tapping out: > I'm going to be venturing out soon and spending some time in areas > where net access will be intermittent, at best, so I'm looking for > suggestions on how best to set things up on my laptop and mail > server. > > My preferred software for online mail is the combination of mutt and > exim. I figure that simply modifying the cron job that runs exim's > queue on the laptop to only do so when online should pretty well > handle outgoing mail. > > For incoming mail, adding fetchmail to the mix is the obvious > solution. However, my recollection of past experience with > fetchmail is that it only allows the options of deleting all mail > from the server as it is collected or never deleting mail from the > server. But what I want is something similar to various GUI MUA's > option to delete mail from the server once it has been deleted on > the client. > > Another wrench in the works is that the server is already breaking > my mail out into several mailboxes. Without duplicating all the > filtering on the laptop as it is retrieved, this does not fit in > well with the way that fetchmail operates. > > I suppose one (slightly oddball) option would be to use CVS to > synchronize /var/spool/mail and ~/Mail, but a) I don't really want > to maintain a version history of my mailboxes and b) yeah, it would > work, and probably be fairly efficient, but somehow it just seems > Wrong. > > Anyone have a better way of accomplishing what I want? > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Jul 12 12:36:10 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mutt & postponed messages In-Reply-To: <20020712114327.N2959@real-time.com> References: <20020712114327.N2959@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020712122906.A21478@botwerks.org> turn recall off. #set recall # when there are postponed messages, ask me to resume this will tell mutt to prompt you if you want to look at postponed messages. when last we saw our hero (Friday, Jul 12, 2002), Amy Tanner was madly tapping out: > In mutt, I have postponed messages that I want to keep, but I want > to create a new message (not use my postponed messages). How can I do > this? > > If I have 1 postponed message, 'm' will bring up that postponed message. > Then I can either use it, or quit the message and 'not postpone'. > > If I have multiple postponed messages, 'm' will bring up the postponed > messages menu listing all my postponed messages, which I can then select > to use or delete. But I can't find a way to tell it to keep my > postponed messages and just let me create a new one. > > This is something that has bugged me for a long time. Thanks. > > -- > Amy Tanner > amy@real-time.com -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020712/3ffba5c2/attachment.pgp From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Jul 12 12:54:24 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Anyone have a better way of accomplishing what I want? several options: 1: install apache and squirrelmail 2: find a friend who has done 1 and created an account for you, then .forward your email to your new account IMHO 1 is the better options, i have it setup and i LOVE it... -munir From nate at refried.org Fri Jul 12 13:29:36 2002 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020712182208.GA25058@refried.org> On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:39:21PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > Anyone have a better way of accomplishing what I want? > > several options: > 1: install apache and squirrelmail Okay, I'll troll. How do you use squirrelmail when you're _OFFLINE_? Nate From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Fri Jul 12 13:32:04 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <27977.63.91.48.130.1026498044.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Munir Nassar said: > several options: > 1: install apache and squirrelmail I second that... Squirrelmail is my ONLY mail client now. From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Fri Jul 12 14:48:09 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: <20020712182208.GA25058@refried.org> References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> <20020712182208.GA25058@refried.org> Message-ID: <30577.63.91.48.130.1026500724.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:39:21PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > > Okay, I'll troll. How do you use squirrelmail when you're _OFFLINE_? IMAP, Apache & Squirrel running local, mail is already pulled down and sitting in IMAP. -- |::::######## |::::######## Tracy McKibben |::::######## AIM: tmckibben2002 |############ tracy@mckibben.d2g.com |############ http://mckibben.d2g.com |############ Currently 79?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 80?F From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 12 14:54:48 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F4A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > > Vonage uses the g711 codec, which takes up 64kbps. I don't > know why > > they don't use g723 or something which uses lower bandwidth. g723 > > uses about 5kbps, and the quality is pretty much indistinguishable > > through a phone speaker. > > it's not indistinguishable from a DSP perspective. it > entails significantly more aggressive compression and their > head end boxes may not support it. The ATA-186 device supports it. It's possible they ripped the support out of it though since they run custom software on it. Jay From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 12 14:54:57 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATTBI on it's collective face Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F4B@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> It's working now. Everytime I imagine their network admins, I hear circus music and see a clown trying to balance with one foot on top of a big beach ball. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Layer [mailto:wlayer@attbi.com] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:08 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] ATTBI on it's collective face > > > Anyone have a grasp on what the _real_ problem is with attbi > these days? What is up with this host (12.126.248.73)? > > PING mail.attbi.com (216.148.227.71) from 10.0.0.2 : 56(84) > bytes of data. 64 bytes from mail.attbi.com (216.148.227.71): > icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=1504 ms > > PING google.com (216.239.51.100) from 10.0.0.2 : 56(84) bytes > of data. 64 bytes from www.google.com (216.239.51.100): > icmp_seq=1 ttl=42 time=1538 ms > > traceroute to mail.attbi.com (216.148.227.71), 30 hops max, > 38 byte packets 1 wiggum (10.0.0.1) 2.205 ms 1.911 ms > 1.804 ms 2 10.229.184.1 (10.229.184.1) 11.345 ms 10.878 > ms 11.908 ms 3 ubr02-p1-0.minnhe1.mn.attbb.net > (24.31.2.210) 15.313 ms 12.494 ms > 10.014 > ms > 4 bic03-p5-0.rosehe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.214) 11.184 ms > 11.593 ms > 10.815 > ms > 5 12.126.248.73 (12.126.248.73) 1508.035 ms 1481.069 ms > 1483.360 ms > > traceroute to google.com (216.239.35.100), 30 hops max, 38 > byte packets 1 wiggum (10.0.0.1) 2.444 ms 2.066 ms 1.876 > ms 2 10.229.184.1 (10.229.184.1) 13.018 ms 27.557 ms > 13.929 ms 3 ubr02-p1-0.minnhe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.210) > 15.502 ms 17.374 ms > 21.859 > ms > 4 bic03-p5-0.rosehe1.mn.attbb.net (24.31.2.214) 18.383 ms > 10.567 ms > 20.942 > ms > 5 12.126.248.73 (12.126.248.73) 1512.904 ms 1527.881 ms > 1575.885 ms > > > -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From amy at real-time.com Fri Jul 12 15:21:02 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mutt & postponed messages In-Reply-To: <20020712122906.A21478@botwerks.org>; from sulrich@botwerks.org on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:29:06PM -0500 References: <20020712114327.N2959@real-time.com> <20020712122906.A21478@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020712145443.A14250@real-time.com> On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:29:06PM -0500, steve ulrich (sulrich@botwerks.org) wrote: > > turn recall off. > > #set recall # when there are postponed messages, ask me to resume thank you - just what I needed. -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020712/971c572a/attachment.pgp From cbidler at innominatus.com Fri Jul 12 15:35:18 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (cbidler@innominatus.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: <20020712182208.GA25058@refried.org> References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> <20020712182208.GA25058@refried.org> Message-ID: <1261.129.191.33.203.1026502445.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> > > Okay, I'll troll. How do you use squirrelmail when you're _OFFLINE_? > > Nate Note the important disinction: 'Squirrelmail' for the "intermittent" periods of Net access listed in the original email. 'Squirrel Mail' for when truly offline. The squirrels print out copies of your messages and deliver them to you. C'mon, I can't be the *only* one in the audience with the power of dominion over rodents...can I? :p From cncole at earthlink.net Fri Jul 12 15:41:39 2002 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Training Message-ID: <00f701c229e3$8b22e4b0$6c01a8c0@HPZT> Any Linux training and prep in town, as for RHCE? FYI, I'm funded to get some dislocated worker training, and aiming at RHCE (because it's paid and not a useless paper. Anything local that's "OK" as long as someone else is paying? I have lots of scattered unix experience, but am not a daily sys admin type... Max immersion for the next few weeks/months is my goal. Have the Sybex RHCE book and some O'Reilly stuff, so self-study may be best. (oh.. sorry about the OuchLook: the modem in my 7.2 box is still sick) --- Chuck Cole Trivia: the phrase "rule of thumb" is derived from an old English law which stated that you couldn't beat your wife with anything wider than your thumb. From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Jul 12 15:42:57 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: <20020712182208.GA25058@refried.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, nate@refried.org wrote: > > several options: > > 1: install apache and squirrelmail > > Okay, I'll troll. How do you use squirrelmail when you're _OFFLINE_? ummm... good point... my mistake, next time i'll try and read the email first, -munir From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Jul 12 16:16:40 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F4A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F4A@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020712161135.A21710@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Friday, Jul 12, 2002), Austad, Jay was madly tapping out: > > > Vonage uses the g711 codec, which takes up 64kbps. I don't > > know why > > > they don't use g723 or something which uses lower bandwidth. g723 > > > uses about 5kbps, and the quality is pretty much indistinguishable > > > through a phone speaker. > > > > it's not indistinguishable from a DSP perspective. it > > entails significantly more aggressive compression and their > > head end boxes may not support it. > > The ATA-186 device supports it. It's possible they ripped the support out > of it though since they run custom software on it. it's not the CPE that's the problem i'm referring to. it's the head end. they may not have support for this in the concentrators that thye're using. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jul 12 17:05:58 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712125545.GA2656@iucha.net>; from florin@iucha.net on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 07:55:45AM -0500 References: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> <20020712125545.GA2656@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 07:55:45AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > The numbers might be right, but your interpretation is wrong. > > This just show that people that use mutt are twice as active on the list > than people that use Micro$oft MUAs. > > florin > > PS: ...or that pople that use mutt are more likely to engage in flame-fests > that fill the list... > > PS/2: Mutt rulez! > MMkay, here's the per-poster summary, quite depressing if you ask me: 27.2026 percent, Microsoft Total (Outlook, Outlook Express, Exchange, etc) 19.4934 percent, Mozilla (Netscape) 14.4273 percent, Microsoft Outlook Express 13.5463 percent, Pine 9.9119 percent, Mutt 9.0308 percent, Microsoft Outlook 8.4802 percent, KMail 4.7357 percent, Evolution 4.5154 percent, Internet Mail Service (Exchange) 4.4053 (40 posters) percent, Unknown mail client 1.7621 percent, Hotmail 1.4317 percent, Sylpheed 1.3216 percent, Squirrel Mail 1.3216 percent, Elm 0.5507 percent, VM 0.5507 percent, Apple Mail 0.4405 percent, Web Mail 0.4405 percent, Gnus/Emacs 0.3304 percent, Opera 0.3304 percent, Forte Agent 0.3304 percent, Eudora 0.3304 percent, DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 0.2203 percent, Yahoo! 0.2203 percent, TWIG 0.2203 percent, Lotus Notes 0.2203 percent, exmh 0.2203 percent, Excite Inbox 0.1101 percent, The Bat! 0.1101 percent, stuphead ver. 0.5.3 (Wiskas) 0.1101 percent, Pocomail 0.1101 percent, My Own Email 0.1101 percent, Mulberry 0.1101 percent, MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) 0.1101 percent, Microsoft-Entourage 0.1101 percent, IMail 0.1101 percent, CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer 0.1101 percent, Calypso 0.1101 percent, AeroMail Total unique sender addresses: 908 So much for the 'Linux' in the 'Twin Cities Linux Users Group' =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Jul 12 17:45:23 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 04:59:10PM -0500 References: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> <20020712125545.GA2656@iucha.net> <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020712172216.L7471@wookimus.net> > 1.4317 percent, Sylpheed I find this interesting. ;-) That means more than one person is using the MH style GUI MUA. Very cool. Nice client and great folder format; far less confusing than maildir. Plus, MH and has a full compliment of small UNIX like tools to use for shell access to your email. The only drawback to MH style folders is that they don't live well with IMAP. Oh well, you can't have everything all of the time. ;-) Perhaps it's time to code UW-IMAP to speak MH. ;-) -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Jul 12 17:50:49 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 04:59:10PM -0500 References: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> <20020712125545.GA2656@iucha.net> <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020712174306.M7471@wookimus.net> Doh, I was wrong about IMAP and MH file formats with UW-IMAPd. Apparently, it is supported. ;-) Yay! Q: Is there support for mh? A: Yes, but only as a legacy format. Your mh format INBOX is accessed by the name "#mhinbox", and all other mh format mailboxes are accessed by prefixing "#mh/" to the name, e.g. "#mh/foo". The mh support uses the "Path:" entry in your .mh_profile file to identify the root directory of your mh format mailboxes. Non-legacy use of mh format is not encouraged. There is no support for permanent flags or unique identifiers; furthermore there are known severe performance problems with the mh format. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From dante at plethora.net Fri Jul 12 17:57:51 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: [LIST reshuffled a bit to make a point] > MMkay, here's the per-poster summary, quite depressing if you ask me: > > 27.2026 percent, Microsoft Total (Outlook, Outlook Express, Exchange, etc) > 14.4273 percent, Microsoft Outlook Express > 9.0308 percent, Microsoft Outlook > 4.5154 percent, Internet Mail Service (Exchange) > 0.1101 percent, Microsoft-Entourage > 0.3304 percent, Eudora Linux [almost certain]: 41.4% Much better than 27.2% > 13.5463 percent, Pine > 9.9119 percent, Mutt > 8.4802 percent, KMail > 4.7357 percent, Evolution > 1.4317 percent, Sylpheed > 1.3216 percent, Squirrel Mail > 1.3216 percent, Elm > 0.4405 percent, Gnus/Emacs > 0.2203 percent, exmh Unknown: > 19.4934 percent, Mozilla (Netscape) > 4.4053 (40 posters) percent, Unknown mail client > 1.7621 percent, Hotmail > 0.5507 percent, VM > 0.5507 percent, Apple Mail > 0.4405 percent, Web Mail > 0.3304 percent, Opera > 0.3304 percent, Forte Agent > 0.3304 percent, DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway > 0.2203 percent, Yahoo! > 0.2203 percent, TWIG > 0.2203 percent, Lotus Notes > 0.2203 percent, Excite Inbox > 0.1101 percent, The Bat! > 0.1101 percent, stuphead ver. 0.5.3 (Wiskas) > 0.1101 percent, Pocomail > 0.1101 percent, My Own Email > 0.1101 percent, Mulberry > 0.1101 percent, MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) > 0.1101 percent, IMail > 0.1101 percent, CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer > 0.1101 percent, Calypso > 0.1101 percent, AeroMail > Total unique sender addresses: 908 > > So much for the 'Linux' in the 'Twin Cities Linux Users Group' =) > So much indeed. ;) > -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From clay at fandre.com Fri Jul 12 18:43:32 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Installfest Swapfest Message-ID: <20020711133053.GA20899@fandre.com> Do you have old hardware you no longer use? Think someone else might get some use out of it? Then bring it to the TCLUG installfest this Saturday. Just remember one rule: if no one wants it, you must take it back home with you. If you plan on attending the installfest, please register here: http://www.mn-linux.org/installfest/registration.php More info on the installfest can be found here: http://www.mn-linux.org/installfest/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jul 12 20:03:36 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] E-Mail program popularity In-Reply-To: <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 04:59:10PM -0500 References: <20020712045024.N1270@techmonkeys.org> <20020712125545.GA2656@iucha.net> <20020712165910.Q1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020712191811.A8731@real-time.com> Quoting Matthew S. Hallacy (poptix@techmonkeys.org): > On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 07:55:45AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > > The numbers might be right, but your interpretation is wrong. > > > > This just show that people that use mutt are twice as active on the list > > than people that use Micro$oft MUAs. > > > > florin > > > > PS: ...or that pople that use mutt are more likely to engage in flame-fests > > that fill the list... > > > > PS/2: Mutt rulez! > > > > MMkay, here's the per-poster summary, quite depressing if you ask me: > > 27.2026 percent, Microsoft Total (Outlook, Outlook Express, Exchange, etc) Win32 > 19.4934 percent, Mozilla (Netscape) Could be either platform. > 14.4273 percent, Microsoft Outlook Express Win32 > 13.5463 percent, Pine Linux > 9.9119 percent, Mutt Linux > 9.0308 percent, Microsoft Outlook > 8.4802 percent, KMail Linux > 4.7357 percent, Evolution Linux Blah, blah. What is the platform break down? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jul 12 20:03:47 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <3D2EFE45.2080405@attbi.com>; from bneigebauer@attbi.com on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 11:05:25AM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F30@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <3D2EFE45.2080405@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020712192100.B8731@real-time.com> Quoting BN (bneigebauer@attbi.com): > Think about the things they don't like: > > VOIP (with Vonage apparantly) > VPN's > GAMING servers > > All things with constant high bit rates. Local ISP don't mind if you do this :-) Good too see the conglomrated screwing the little guy. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jul 13 02:52:18 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Nokia 3390, Linux = Internet access? Message-ID: <20020712234715.A31298@real-time.com> What's the prefered way to get your Nokia 3390 phone and linux laptop on the 'net? Is it even possible? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jul 13 03:09:49 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Look'n for Mac-dude who uses netatalk under linux Message-ID: <20020713004356.B31298@real-time.com> I'm looking for an Mac admin who is using netatalk under linux to connect his/her Macs (non-OSX) via appletalk to the Linux box. I'd like 1 or 2 hours of your time. I'll pay for lunch -and- PAY you for your time. Lunch your call. Rate negotiable. Please respond via private email. I'll have limited access to email this next week, so I might be slow to respond to your email. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sat Jul 13 03:16:45 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <20020712192100.B8731@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Local ISP don't mind if you do this :-) is this our regularly sceduled Real-Time plug? ;-) -munir From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sat Jul 13 09:08:57 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02071308241400.03352@nancy> On Saturday 13 July 2002 01:17, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Local ISP don't mind if you do this :-) > > is this our regularly sceduled Real-Time plug? ;-) > > -munir > Valid point though. Kelly Black From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Jul 13 13:39:42 2002 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James M. Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Look'n for Mac-dude who uses netatalk under linux In-Reply-To: <20020713004356.B31298@real-time.com> References: <20020713004356.B31298@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1648.66.99.114.36.1026583631.squirrel@webmail.illogicalart.net> I've got a couple of macs (68k and powerpc based) that are on my network using netatalk. I am in Chicago today, but if you still need my help, let me know. I 'll be available on Monday. Bob Tanner said: > I'm looking for an Mac admin who is using netatalk under linux to connect > his/her Macs (non-OSX) via appletalk to the Linux box. > > I'd like 1 or 2 hours of your time. I'll pay for lunch -and- PAY you for > your time. > > Lunch your call. Rate negotiable. > > Please respond via private email. I'll have limited access to email this > next week, so I might be slow to respond to your email. > > Thanks. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From fritchie at mr.net Sat Jul 13 13:40:21 2002 From: fritchie at mr.net (Scott Lystig Fritchie) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: Message of "Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:41:16 CDT." <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <200207131813.g6DIDeB48213@snookles.snookles.com> >>>>> "ds" == Dave Sherohman writes: ds> My preferred software for online mail is the combination of mutt ds> and exim. Since you asked about sendmail.... :-) Well, I'll just spread the knowledge around a bit, since not everything below is sendmail-related. YMMV. I faced this situation a few weeks ago while I was out at USENIX. The conference had several 802.11b APs around the convention center and hotels, but I wanted to be able to deal with email offline: in my hotel room, stretching battery when within range of an AP, at the bocce ball courts, etc. Mail -> laptop: I'm a curmudgeon: I use Emacs + MH. I'd SSH to my box at home, move $MAIL to /tmp/mail, then use 'scp' to copy the spool file to my laptop. Then locally run 'inc -file newly-scp-ed-file'. Low tech, I know, but I don't normally have my emailbox available via my IMAP server. laptop -> the world MH is typically configured to speak SMTP to somebody to deliver outgoing mail ... if there's a way to have it feed the message via a pipe to an MTA, I dunno about it. Anyhoo, that meant I had to run an SMTP daemon on my laptop. No big deal, though I had to do a few things first: 1. Add "FEATURE(accept_unresolvable_domains)dnl" to my sendmail master config file. That allows sendmail to accept messages when it can't talk to DNS servers ... very handy when off-line. 2. Add an IP filtering rule to allow access to TCP port 25 only from localhost. If you're ever on a public or semi-public wireless network, there are probably other things you'll want to filter, too! Even at USENIX, ostensibly a "white hat" crowd, there were a lot of vulnerability probes and actual exploit-hackery attempted on the wireless conference network. Do not forget that you're not at home (or at work) where the network is relatively trustable. 3. For messages that aren't immediately deliverable, I didn't want them sitting on my laptop: it may be a while before it's on-line again. So I used "define(`SMART_HOST', `mx.snookles.com')dnl" so that all messages, regardless of recipient, would be sent to my home mail exchanger unconditionally. If a message is not immediately deliverable, it's mx.snookles.com's problem, not my laptop's. 4. mx.snookles.com does not, by default, allow relaying of mail to arbitrary recipients. How can it tell the difference between me sending messages from my laptop and a vile spammer? (Who's probably harvesting my email address from the very message, the bastard!) I had a few options: 1. Set up SSL identity certificates so that mx.snookles.com could automagically identify my laptop and thus allow relay. 2. Use my POP-before-SMTP mechanism to permit relaying for a limited period of time. 3. Permit relaying from a static set of IP addresses (the external NAT interfaces from the show network), trusting that conference attendees wouldn't use mx.snookles.com for spam relay. 4. Use a VPN tunnel to talk to mx.snookles.com, so that mx would think it were talking to an "inside" machine and thus permit relaying. #2 is problematic because the password for regular POP and IMAP sessions is unencrypted. There were posters at the conference that said: If your password is on this list, you need to: a). change it immediately, and b). start using encryption, stupid. paSSword, default, abc123, MyPass, ..... Ah, the joys of sniffing 802.11b traffic! Well, I could've created a dummy POP) account that would _only_ be used for permitting mail relaying. {shrug} I should be doing #4: there isn't much excuse these days not to be using IPSec or VTun or any other capable IP tunnelling regime. But I was lazy, so I didn't do it this time. I opted for #3. It worked. And since both my laptop and mx.snookles.com are using sendmail 8.12.x and I've already done the basic configuration of server crypto certificates, the actual SMTP dialog between them was encrypted automatically via TLS. Those network sniffing jokers may have been able to use mx.snookles.com as an SMTP relay, but they couldn't see my messages in plain text! If anyone is interested in the POP-before-SMTP doodad I wrote, I'll be happy to share: contact me for the source. It's several shell-scripts, but they are: a). MTA, POP, and IMAP server-independent, and b). require no source code modifications to the MTA, POP, or IMAP servers. In my searching of Freshmeat, Sourceforge, and other places, I didn't find any existing s/w that fulfilled both requirements. All that's required is: 1. The POP & IMAP servers spit out a syslog log message upon a successful authentication that contains the client's IP address. Cyrus's servers do that already. 2. The MTA's relay checking mechanism has some external way of checking for permitted IP addresses. In sendmail's case, "FEATURE(access_db)dnl" works quite well. The shell scripts are easily modified to take care of the specifics of the POP/IMAP/SMTP servers' requirements. Hope you have fun where ever you'll be going. Remember to practice safe networking! :-) -Scott From mnfan11 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 13 14:25:45 2002 From: mnfan11 at yahoo.com (Elvedin T.) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail problems In-Reply-To: <200207131844.g6DIiTX20343@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020713192543.41295.qmail@web40204.mail.yahoo.com> I have Sendmail 8.11.6 installed and I'm having trouble sending E-mail to addresses outside my network, such as Yahoo or Hotmail. The connections time-out for a reason I do not know. It also doesn't allow relaying. I have edited /etc/mail/access to allow all my domains to relay; localhost, localhost.localdomain, elvedin.dyndns.org, etc. anything that would point to my computer... But it still didn't work, so I left it empty now. I have set up all the Trusted Users, Local Domains, Relay Domains, but with no luck... If you are also wondering, I do know its a misconfiguration problem with my server in some way, since I can recieve mail from any other network. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com From austad at marketwatch.com Sat Jul 13 17:24:29 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> The thing that sucks is that I'm stuck with ATT Broadband. I'm too far from the CO to get DSL, and I'd have to buy a very tall mast to get SB Wireless's 802.11 link, plus the horrendous setup fee. I could get a T1, but the just the loop fee will run me $440 a month, plus another $600 minimum for the access fee. ATT broadband sucks bigtime, but they don't NAT my traffic anymore. Vonage complained to them, and it seems they've fixed it, at least for now. It appears that they were only NAT'ing traffic destined for Vonage's network. I generated some fake SIP traffic and sent it to another box out on the net, and it came through with no modification. I wish ATT would get off their asses and start offering some kind of business plan that would allow users to have static ip's and run servers. Time Warner has a few plans, but I can't get them here. Even if I could get DSL here, I don't know if I would since I would be giving money to Qwest, and they suck worse than ATT. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Kelly Black [mailto:kelly.black@penguinpackets.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:24 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic > Importance: High > > > On Saturday 13 July 2002 01:17, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > Local ISP don't mind if you do this :-) > > > > is this our regularly sceduled Real-Time plug? ;-) > > > > -munir > > > > Valid point though. > > Kelly Black > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From austad at marketwatch.com Sat Jul 13 22:13:51 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients via IPP under cups Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Just a tip for those setting up cups to let windows clients print via IPP.... Remove any commas from the nickname line in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. There's a bug in windows where it doesn't like the commas. And don't use ipp:// when setting up windows clients, you have to use a URL of the form "http://myhost:631/printers/myprintername" Spent like 2 hours troubleshooting this, and finally found the answer to the comma problem on a page written in swedish. :) Note that you'll need to put "AuthType None" under the location sections for "/" and "/printers" since it appears that windows doesn't like authentication over IPP. Jay From mike at jentges.net Sat Jul 13 22:37:20 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail problems References: <20020713192543.41295.qmail@web40204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002601c22add$c74608f0$0696c7c7@victim> > I have Sendmail 8.11.6 installed and I'm having > trouble sending E-mail to addresses outside my > network, such as Yahoo or Hotmail. The connections > time-out for a reason I do not know. > > It also doesn't allow relaying. I have edited > /etc/mail/access to allow all my domains to relay; Hmm. You should be putting those in the relay-domains file. > I have set up all the Trusted Users, Local Domains, > Relay Domains, but with no luck... Set up how? -mj From peter-clark at bethel.edu Sat Jul 13 22:37:38 2002 From: peter-clark at bethel.edu (Peter Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PPP problems Message-ID: <200207132133.52293.peter-clark@bethel.edu> Now that I am back from a wedding, I can resume my modem debugging. As I said previously, I've tracked down the source of the mysteriously changing /dev/ttyS3 permissions to ppp itself. When I use kppp or wvdial, the permissions are crw-rw---- until ppp starts, at which point the permissions change to crw-r-----. /etc/ppp/options reads as follows: --- asyncmap 0 crtscts lock hide-password modem noipdefault proxyarp lcp-echo-interval 30 lcp-echo-failure 4 noipx --- For the record, I'm running Debian Sid, although if this and the KDE font madness continues, I'm going to start looking at Gentoo. :Peter From mnfan11 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 14 02:05:28 2002 From: mnfan11 at yahoo.com (Elvedin T.) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: sendmail problems Message-ID: <20020714042509.4221.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> > It also doesn't allow relaying. I have edited > /etc/mail/access to allow all my domains to relay; Hmm. You should be putting those in the relay-domains file. > I have set up all the Trusted Users, Local Domains, > Relay Domains, but with no luck... Set up how? -mj Well, I have entires in my relay-domains. elvedin.dyndns.org 127.0.0.1 fragment localhost localhost.localdomain And Trusted Users and such, I edited sendmail.cf. I recently installed Webmin, so now I use that to configure it. It says that I don't have outgoing address mapping (generics) feature enabled. Could that be a problem? The trusted users, I added apache and nobody, since they weren't there and I though I read in some docs that I should, just in case, or something. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com From bneigebauer at attbi.com Sun Jul 14 02:05:38 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients via IPP under cups References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723D@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D30FE59.6090306@attbi.com> Man thats funny! I had the same problem, but the answer I found was in German. Fortunately I know a little German and didn't even need to use the fish. My problem now is the margins. I don't thinks its an issue realted to cups. I downloaded and installed adobe's latest generic postscript drivers and pointed it to the proper PPD. When I print, the page is down and left an inch too far. I switched the generic post script driver over to "print to file" and took the output file, put it on the linux box and did a "cat test.ps > /dev/oki4drv" Same problem. Downloaded a random PS file of the net, printed just fine. Same with the testprint.ps that comes with CUPS. Downloaded the latest ghostscript. Downloaded the latest gsview for windows, everything looked fine with the PS file. Setup my HP1600C (I know, it already supports IPP, don't need CUPS) Printed through the Generic post script driver, prints fine. So, I have determined its a combination of Adobe's Postscript driver and the oki4drv driver that I am using. Anyone setup an Okidata 4w with CUPS and try to print from Windows? I am gonna take a stab at playing with the oki4drv code and check out what its doing....... Austad, Jay wrote: >Just a tip for those setting up cups to let windows clients print via >IPP.... > >Remove any commas from the nickname line in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. There's a >bug in windows where it doesn't like the commas. And don't use ipp:// when >setting up windows clients, you have to use a URL of the form >"http://myhost:631/printers/myprintername" > >Spent like 2 hours troubleshooting this, and finally found the answer to the >comma problem on a page written in swedish. :) > >Note that you'll need to put "AuthType None" under the location sections for >"/" and "/printers" since it appears that windows doesn't like >authentication over IPP. > >Jay >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From bneigebauer at attbi.com Sun Jul 14 02:05:49 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D31012D.3020608@attbi.com> It would be nice to get our own private network up. Wireless would be the only way to go, i sure as hell don't wanna be digging trenches... Austad, Jay wrote: >The thing that sucks is that I'm stuck with ATT Broadband. I'm too far from >the CO to get DSL, and I'd have to buy a very tall mast to get SB Wireless's >802.11 link, plus the horrendous setup fee. > >I could get a T1, but the just the loop fee will run me $440 a month, plus >another $600 minimum for the access fee. > >ATT broadband sucks bigtime, but they don't NAT my traffic anymore. Vonage >complained to them, and it seems they've fixed it, at least for now. It >appears that they were only NAT'ing traffic destined for Vonage's network. >I generated some fake SIP traffic and sent it to another box out on the net, >and it came through with no modification. I wish ATT would get off their >asses and start offering some kind of business plan that would allow users >to have static ip's and run servers. Time Warner has a few plans, but I >can't get them here. > >Even if I could get DSL here, I don't know if I would since I would be >giving money to Qwest, and they suck worse than ATT. > >Jay > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Kelly Black [mailto:kelly.black@penguinpackets.com] >>Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:24 AM >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic >>Importance: High >> >> >>On Saturday 13 July 2002 01:17, Munir Nassar wrote: >> >> >>>On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Local ISP don't mind if you do this :-) >>>> >>>> >>>is this our regularly sceduled Real-Time plug? ;-) >>> >>> -munir >>> >>> >>> >>Valid point though. >> >>Kelly Black >>_______________________________________________ >>Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From jimstreit at northlans.com Sun Jul 14 11:14:11 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot In-Reply-To: <01a101c2292c$4fccd900$0400a8c0@leftfish.com> References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> <01a101c2292c$4fccd900$0400a8c0@leftfish.com> Message-ID: <1119.192.168.70.102.1026662596.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Yep > are you using a /boot partition? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Streit" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 1:49 PM > Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot > > >> I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. >> Heres what I've tried so far. >> >> Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a >> little bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. >> Installed RedHat 7.3 >> >> The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could >> boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. >> >> Reinstalled win 2000 >> Reinstalled RH 7.3 >> >> The second time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the /boot >> partition. >> >> Now I can boot to windows fine, but I can't boot to RH. When I >> boot on the Linux boot disk that is created during RH install, >> the floppy starts to boot but part way through I get an error. >> >> I've read a bunch of stuff about copy files from one partition >> to another and modifiying each other OS boot loader, but the >> main >> problem for me is that I can only get to one or the other >> depending on the install. I'm never able to "reboot" and select >> an OS at >> startup. >> >> Can someone point me in the right direction, or to instructions >> that would help me. >> >> Thanks >> Jim Streit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >> Paul, > Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Sun Jul 14 11:16:46 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual Boot In-Reply-To: <20020711212744.F4064@real-time.com> References: <3120.65.116.187.194.1026413391.squirrel@www.northlans.com> <20020711212744.F4064@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1126.192.168.70.102.1026662709.squirrel@www.northlans.com> Great, I'll try it and let you know. > On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 01:49:51PM -0500, Jim Streit > (jimstreit@northlans.com) wrote: >> I'm tring to dual boot a box with Windows 2000 and Redhat 7.3. >> Heres what I've tried so far. >> >> Installed Win 2000 on the first 7.5 gb of drive, leaving a >> little bit of space before the 1024 cylinder boot limit. >> Installed RedHat 7.3 >> >> The first time I installed RH I placed GRUB in the MBR. I could >> boot RH fine, but I couldn't boot to Windows. > > It's easiest if you install Windows first, then Linux, then use > grub as your bootloader. > > You'll need to add an entry in your grub.conf that looks something > like this: > > title Windows 2000 > rootnoverify (hd0,0) > chainloader +1 > > hd0,0 says first partition of your first drive, which it should be > if you install Windows first. > > There are several howto guides on this topic. Look at > www.tldp.org or google-search. > > -- > Amy Tanner > amy@real-time.com From bneigebauer at attbi.com Sun Jul 14 11:24:02 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <3D31012D.3020608@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3D31A46E.1070106@attbi.com> If I was AT&T and I really want to create a problem for Vonage users, I wouldn't NAT the packets. Its too noticeable. I would set up some sort of linux bridge and randomly discard or hold (queue) UDP packets for random intervals, so each side gets a garbled mess of out of order RTP-UDP packets. This would create a lot of echo, delay and swirlies in the phone. It would make you think that is not AT&T's direct fault, but maybe it could be Vonage's. You could probably do that with all of the unwanted ports and protocols. (Basically everything but HTTP, Email, and Instant Messaging) Hey, maybe I should build it and sell the service to AT&T. Just Kidding! BN wrote: > It would be nice to get our own private network up. > Wireless would be the only way to go, i sure as hell don't wanna be > digging trenches... > Austad, Jay wrote: > >> The thing that sucks is that I'm stuck with ATT Broadband. I'm too >> far from >> the CO to get DSL, and I'd have to buy a very tall mast to get SB >> Wireless's >> 802.11 link, plus the horrendous setup fee. >> >> I could get a T1, but the just the loop fee will run me $440 a month, >> plus >> another $600 minimum for the access fee. >> ATT broadband sucks bigtime, but they don't NAT my traffic anymore. >> Vonage >> complained to them, and it seems they've fixed it, at least for now. It >> appears that they were only NAT'ing traffic destined for Vonage's >> network. >> I generated some fake SIP traffic and sent it to another box out on >> the net, >> and it came through with no modification. I wish ATT would get off >> their >> asses and start offering some kind of business plan that would allow >> users >> to have static ip's and run servers. Time Warner has a few plans, but I >> can't get them here. >> Even if I could get DSL here, I don't know if I would since I would be >> giving money to Qwest, and they suck worse than ATT. >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kelly Black [mailto:kelly.black@penguinpackets.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 8:24 AM >>> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic >>> Importance: High >>> >>> >>> On Saturday 13 July 2002 01:17, Munir Nassar wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Local ISP don't mind if you do this :-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> is this our regularly sceduled Real-Time plug? ;-) >>>> >>>> -munir >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Valid point though. >>> >>> Kelly Black >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >>> Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org >>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From florin at iucha.net Sun Jul 14 11:40:46 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <3D31A46E.1070106@attbi.com> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <3D31012D.3020608@attbi.com> <3D31A46E.1070106@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020714164204.GA3833@iucha.net> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 11:18:54AM -0500, BN wrote: > If I was AT&T and I really want to create a problem for Vonage users, I > wouldn't NAT the packets. Its too noticeable. > > I would set up some sort of linux bridge and randomly discard or hold > (queue) UDP packets for random intervals, so each side gets a garbled > mess of out of order RTP-UDP packets. This would create a lot of echo, > delay and swirlies in the phone. > > It would make you think that is not AT&T's direct fault, but maybe it > could be Vonage's. > > You could probably do that with all of the unwanted ports and protocols. > (Basically everything but HTTP, Email, and Instant Messaging) ^^^^^^^^^^^ Those use TCP. > Hey, maybe I should build it and sell the service to AT&T. Just Kidding! And b) trim thy posts... florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020714/462f34f3/attachment.pgp From bneigebauer at attbi.com Sun Jul 14 11:57:05 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <3D31012D.3020608@attbi.com> <3D31A46E.1070106@attbi.com> <20020714164204.GA3833@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3D31AB69.5070803@attbi.com> Florin Iucha wrote: >On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 11:18:54AM -0500, BN wrote: > > >>If I was AT&T and I really want to create a problem for Vonage users, I >>wouldn't NAT the packets. Its too noticeable. >> >>I would set up some sort of linux bridge and randomly discard or hold >>(queue) UDP packets for random intervals, so each side gets a garbled >>mess of out of order RTP-UDP packets. This would create a lot of echo, >>delay and swirlies in the phone. >> >>It would make you think that is not AT&T's direct fault, but maybe it >>could be Vonage's. >> >>You could probably do that with all of the unwanted ports and protocols. >>(Basically everything but HTTP, Email, and Instant Messaging) >> >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > Those use TCP. > Yeah, but you drop enough of them, TCP will scale back its send rate. Effectively limiting your bandwidth and creating a big stink. > > > >>Hey, maybe I should build it and sell the service to AT&T. Just Kidding! >> >> > >And b) trim thy posts... > >florin > > > From austad at marketwatch.com Sun Jul 14 13:05:06 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients via IPP under c ups Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257240@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I had the same issue, it turned out my printer settings were using A4 paper instead of US Letter. Switched it and now it's fine. > -----Original Message----- > From: BN [mailto:bneigebauer@attbi.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 11:30 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients > via IPP under > cups > > > Man thats funny! I had the same problem, but the answer I > found was in > German. Fortunately I know a little German and didn't even > need to use > the fish. > > My problem now is the margins. I don't thinks its an issue > realted to cups. > I downloaded and installed adobe's latest generic postscript > drivers and > pointed it to the proper PPD. > > When I print, the page is down and left an inch too far. I > switched the > generic post script driver over to "print to file" and took > the output > file, put it on the linux box and did a "cat test.ps > /dev/oki4drv" > > Same problem. > > Downloaded a random PS file of the net, printed just fine. > Same with the > testprint.ps that comes with CUPS. > Downloaded the latest ghostscript. > Downloaded the latest gsview for windows, everything looked fine with > the PS file. > Setup my HP1600C (I know, it already supports IPP, don't need CUPS) > Printed through the Generic post script driver, prints fine. > > So, I have determined its a combination of Adobe's Postscript > driver and > the oki4drv driver that I am using. > > Anyone setup an Okidata 4w with CUPS and try to print from Windows? > > I am gonna take a stab at playing with the oki4drv code and check out > what its doing....... > > > > > > Austad, Jay wrote: > > >Just a tip for those setting up cups to let windows clients print via > >IPP.... > > > >Remove any commas from the nickname line in > /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. There's a > >bug in windows where it doesn't like the commas. And don't > use ipp:// when > >setting up windows clients, you have to use a URL of the form > >"http://myhost:631/printers/myprintername" > > > >Spent like 2 hours troubleshooting this, and finally found > the answer to the > >comma problem on a page written in swedish. :) > > > >Note that you'll need to put "AuthType None" under the > location sections for > >"/" and "/printers" since it appears that windows doesn't like > >authentication over IPP. > > > >Jay > >_______________________________________________ > >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From colin at tyr.med.umn.edu Sun Jul 14 14:29:59 2002 From: colin at tyr.med.umn.edu (Colin Kilbane) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] sgi indy for sale In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257240@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: SGI Indy, loaded 128 ram 5 gig hd 24 bit video 17inch monitor sony trinatron flat screen mouse & keyboard external opto/magnito drive with lots of disks external zip 100 $250 or best offer Colin Kilbane 612-226-9806 From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sun Jul 14 14:37:14 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <3D31012D.3020608@attbi.com> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <3D31012D.3020608@attbi.com> Message-ID: <02071414210000.04472@nancy> On Saturday 13 July 2002 23:42, you wrote: > It would be nice to get our own private network up. > Wireless would be the only way to go, i sure as hell don't wanna be > digging trenches... I am all for that. I would be willing to pay quite a bit for up front equipment costs to have workable AUP from a full time provider. Of course being a ham radio op, it kinda comes as more of assumption. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From drake at lemongecko.org Sun Jul 14 14:46:02 2002 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE 3.02 and bad helvetica fonts Message-ID: <20020714144220.A2700@lemongecko.org> I've just pulled down the KDE 3 .debs for Debian unstable, and I like it. The one thing that surprises me is that Helvetica fonts look horrible in Konqueror. :( Here's an example: http://www.math.umn.edu/~drake/konq-shot.png Do any KDE gurus here know how I can fix this? It's probably pretty simple, but I'd like to do it in The KDE Way(tm). Thanks, Dan -- if the U of M made .sigs: "This .sig under construction, expected completion date: March 2002." From nolanjm at juno.com Sun Jul 14 16:30:18 2002 From: nolanjm at juno.com (Jerry M Nolan) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #2236 - 12 msgs Message-ID: <20020714.162609.-279197.2.nolanjm@juno.com> does anyone know the particulars of lindows? Seems it comes with microtel boxes that walmart is selling. You can subscribe to their service and get any software you need from them for $90 but I don't know if that is per year or a one time price. I've never heard of it so any info would be appreciated. Tnx Jerry Nolan KA0PFZ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From theixian at hotmail.com Sun Jul 14 19:17:11 2002 From: theixian at hotmail.com (Loren Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #2236 - 12 msgs References: <20020714.162609.-279197.2.nolanjm@juno.com> Message-ID: IIRC the charge is for a 1 year subscription. LB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry M Nolan" To: Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 4:26 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #2236 - 12 msgs > does anyone know the particulars of lindows? Seems it comes > with microtel boxes that walmart is selling. You can subscribe > to their service and get any software you need from them for $90 > but I don't know if that is per year or a one time price. I've > never heard of it so any info would be appreciated. Tnx > > Jerry Nolan > KA0PFZ > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From bneigebauer at attbi.com Sun Jul 14 21:54:21 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients via IPP under c ups References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257240@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D32212B.4080506@attbi.com> Looked all over the settings in all places, can't figure out where it thinks its A4 Its gotta be something in PS, but I checked the PageBounds, and they match US Letter. Austad, Jay wrote: >I had the same issue, it turned out my printer settings were using A4 paper >instead of US Letter. Switched it and now it's fine. > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: BN [mailto:bneigebauer@attbi.com] >>Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 11:30 PM >>To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients >>via IPP under >>cups >> >> >>Man thats funny! I had the same problem, but the answer I >>found was in >>German. Fortunately I know a little German and didn't even >>need to use >>the fish. >> >>My problem now is the margins. I don't thinks its an issue >>realted to cups. >>I downloaded and installed adobe's latest generic postscript >>drivers and >>pointed it to the proper PPD. >> >>When I print, the page is down and left an inch too far. I >>switched the >>generic post script driver over to "print to file" and took >>the output >>file, put it on the linux box and did a "cat test.ps > /dev/oki4drv" >> >>Same problem. >> >>Downloaded a random PS file of the net, printed just fine. >>Same with the >>testprint.ps that comes with CUPS. >>Downloaded the latest ghostscript. >>Downloaded the latest gsview for windows, everything looked fine with >>the PS file. >>Setup my HP1600C (I know, it already supports IPP, don't need CUPS) >>Printed through the Generic post script driver, prints fine. >> >>So, I have determined its a combination of Adobe's Postscript >>driver and >>the oki4drv driver that I am using. >> >>Anyone setup an Okidata 4w with CUPS and try to print from Windows? >> >>I am gonna take a stab at playing with the oki4drv code and check out >>what its doing....... >> >> >> >> >> >>Austad, Jay wrote: >> >> >> >>>Just a tip for those setting up cups to let windows clients print via >>>IPP.... >>> >>>Remove any commas from the nickname line in >>> >>> >>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf. There's a >> >> >>>bug in windows where it doesn't like the commas. And don't >>> >>> >>use ipp:// when >> >> >>>setting up windows clients, you have to use a URL of the form >>>"http://myhost:631/printers/myprintername" >>> >>>Spent like 2 hours troubleshooting this, and finally found >>> >>> >>the answer to the >> >> >>>comma problem on a page written in swedish. :) >>> >>>Note that you'll need to put "AuthType None" under the >>> >>> >>location sections for >> >> >>>"/" and "/printers" since it appears that windows doesn't like >>>authentication over IPP. >>> >>>Jay >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>> >>> >>Paul, Minnesota >> >> >>>http://www.mn-linux.org >>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jul 15 08:43:02 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: ; from nassarmu@redconcepts.net on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:39:21PM -0500 References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020715083132.C22261@sherohman.org> On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 12:39:21PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > 1: install apache and squirrelmail Assuming that you mean squirrelmail as in "SquirrelMail - Webmail for Nuts!", I don't see how that helps me any. I'm looking for offline (as in no-network-connection-available) mail reading: when a connection is available, hook up for 5 minutes, download all mail, disconnect, read mail the next day, compose replies, hook up again a couple days later, resync mailboxes/send replies, disconnect, repeat. I don't see how a webmail package is going to let you read mail when you can't talk to the web server. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From myok at ogzr.org Mon Jul 15 10:19:01 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thanks for hosting the Installfest this Saturday Message-ID: <1026745411.21258.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> (Sorry if this posts twice - just discovered a typo in my From: address from when I first set up Evolution.) Thanks to the coordinators and the people who owned the space for this Saturday's Installfest! I was only able to stay a couple hours, but from the look of things, everyone was able to find space, power and network connectivity, and the Internet connection was working well. I had a great time, and was able to help a couple people get GRUB configured properly. -- Carl Patten myok@ogzr.org From list at slushpupie.com Mon Jul 15 10:45:17 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SNMP MIBs Message-ID: <200207151030.33590.list@slushpupie.com> I am starting to play around with MRTG on some of our routers/switches, and I just downloaded some MIBs off the manufactures web site so I can get more info off them. The problem is I dont know where to put these files. I tried putting them with the other MIBs in /usr/share/snmp/mibs but snmpwalk dosnt read from them. Where do I put these? Jay From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jul 15 11:31:01 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00725723C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Even if I could get DSL here, I don't know if I would since I would be > giving money to Qwest, and they suck worse than ATT. Tried Covad SDSL? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jul 15 11:31:30 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Nokia 3390, Linux = Internet access? In-Reply-To: <20020712234715.A31298@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > What's the prefered way to get your Nokia 3390 phone and linux laptop > on the 'net? > > Is it even possible? You probably gotta buy a data cable for it, and then use the modem emulation stuff. May or may not be possible that that particular model. That's why I was on a 8290, and now a Ericsson T68.. both have integrated modems and infrared. I just gotta get a Bluetooth card for my laptop and PDA now so I can get to the 'net without line of sight... :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From devel_support at crlc.net Mon Jul 15 12:05:58 2002 From: devel_support at crlc.net (Carl Lindgren) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? References: <000f01c2277a$3decd5e0$1025a8c0@crlc.net> <20020709164527.B3434@techmonkeys.org> <002401c227b7$6d28e410$1025a8c0@crlc.net> <20020709214429.H3434@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <001b01c22c20$bacd2f60$1025a8c0@crlc.net> Sorry for responding sooner. As far as I know from the research I did before, the onboard Gigabyte Fasttrack controller chip is different than the PCI controller chip and is not supported by Promise. Although it would be interesting to test and see if these drivers would work with it. I was just wondering if there were any opensource projects that anyone knew about for the onboard chip in the vintage of the mainboards that I have. Thanks for your help, Carl Lindgren C. R. Lindgren Consulting Minneapolis, MN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Is there a Fasttrack/Promise driver for Linux? > On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 09:13:47PM -0500, Carl Lindgren wrote: > > YES, i did. The only drivers Gigabyte offers are for Windows and Netware. > > > > Carl Lindgren > > C. R. Lindgren Consulting > > Minneapolis, MN > > > > http://www.promise.com/support/linux2_eng.asp?mode=linux_download&product_id =15 > > Or, > > http://www.promise.com/support/linux_eng.asp > > in case it's not actually the Fastrack 100 > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bneigebauer at attbi.com Mon Jul 15 14:45:58 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients via IPP under c ups References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257240@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <3D32212B.4080506@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3D3314E8.10600@attbi.com> Never mind, I just set up a RAW spooler in cups and was done with it. I just have to be carefull if I ever try to print to the printer from my PC and girlfriend's Mac at the same time. BN wrote: > Looked all over the settings in all places, can't figure out where it > thinks its A4 > Its gotta be something in PS, but I checked the PageBounds, and they > match US Letter. > > Austad, Jay wrote: > >> I had the same issue, it turned out my printer settings were using A4 >> paper >> instead of US Letter. Switched it and now it's fine. >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: BN [mailto:bneigebauer@attbi.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 11:30 PM >>> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] tip for printing with windows clients via IPP >>> under >>> cups >>> >>> >>> Man thats funny! I had the same problem, but the answer I found was >>> in German. Fortunately I know a little German and didn't even need >>> to use the fish. >>> >>> My problem now is the margins. I don't thinks its an issue realted >>> to cups. >>> I downloaded and installed adobe's latest generic postscript drivers >>> and pointed it to the proper PPD. >>> >>> When I print, the page is down and left an inch too far. I switched >>> the generic post script driver over to "print to file" and took the >>> output file, put it on the linux box and did a "cat test.ps > >>> /dev/oki4drv" >>> >>> Same problem. >>> >>> Downloaded a random PS file of the net, printed just fine. Same with >>> the testprint.ps that comes with CUPS. >>> Downloaded the latest ghostscript. >>> Downloaded the latest gsview for windows, everything looked fine >>> with the PS file. >>> Setup my HP1600C (I know, it already supports IPP, don't need CUPS) >>> Printed through the Generic post script driver, prints fine. >>> >>> So, I have determined its a combination of Adobe's Postscript driver >>> and the oki4drv driver that I am using. >>> >>> Anyone setup an Okidata 4w with CUPS and try to print from Windows? >>> >>> I am gonna take a stab at playing with the oki4drv code and check >>> out what its doing....... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Austad, Jay wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Just a tip for those setting up cups to let windows clients print via >>>> IPP.... >>>> >>>> Remove any commas from the nickname line in >>> >>> /etc/cups/cupsd.conf. There's a >>> >>> >>>> bug in windows where it doesn't like the commas. And don't >>> >>> use ipp:// when >>> >>> >>>> setting up windows clients, you have to use a URL of the form >>>> "http://myhost:631/printers/myprintername" >>>> >>>> Spent like 2 hours troubleshooting this, and finally found >>> >>> the answer to the >>> >>> >>>> comma problem on a page written in swedish. :) >>>> >>>> Note that you'll need to put "AuthType None" under the >>> >>> location sections for >>> >>> >>>> "/" and "/printers" since it appears that windows doesn't like >>>> authentication over IPP. >>>> >>>> Jay _______________________________________________ >>>> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. >>> >>> Paul, Minnesota >>> >>> >>>> http://www.mn-linux.org >>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >>> Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org >>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Jul 15 17:23:25 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #2236 - 12 msgs In-Reply-To: <20020714.162609.-279197.2.nolanjm@juno.com> References: <20020714.162609.-279197.2.nolanjm@juno.com> Message-ID: <20020715171423.A929@gordo.space.umn.edu> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 04:26:07PM -0500, Jerry M Nolan wrote: > does anyone know the particulars of lindows? Seems it comes > with microtel boxes that walmart is selling. You can subscribe > to their service and get any software you need from them for $90 > but I don't know if that is per year or a one time price. I've > never heard of it so any info would be appreciated. Tnx I don't know much about Lindows, but from what I've heard it sounds like a iffy distribution. The service you mention is provides software that most distribution provide on their CDs and mirrors, so its not really that good a deal. Since Mandrake is available on those walmart.com computers, I would go with Mandrake isntead if I were you. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From ben_b at ppdonline.com Mon Jul 15 17:28:48 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iptables with ethernet aliases Message-ID: <3D332392.76523D2D@ppdonline.com> Hello, I'm trying to set up iptables to use ethernet aliases as incoming or outgoing devices, take the following command as an example... iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0:1 -j DNAT --to-destination 10.0.0.99 if I attempt to execute that command I receive the following message... WARNING: wierd character in interface 'eth0:1' (No aliases, :, !, or *). but if I then do a `iptables -L -t nat -v` the rule has made it into the chain complete with the supposedly bogus interface designation. So my question is whether this is just a warning as it indicated in the message and will actually function properly or if I'm truly not allowed to use ethernet aliasing in iptables. I have enough other chaos in my system right now that I can't just try to use it to find out, my packets could very well drop for a number of other reasons and I'd never know so a response from someone who has dealt with this before would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Ben. From ben_b at ppdonline.com Mon Jul 15 17:29:22 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iptables vs route Message-ID: <3D332603.EFEAFB46@ppdonline.com> Hello again, I have another question regarding iptables, this time with regards to its role vs the duties of route. I was attempting to throw anything coming in on eth1 (the local area network interface in my firewall) on a specific 10-dot address to forward out of an alias on eth0 (namely eth0:1). I started to do this with the following iptables command... iptables -t filter -A FORWARD -i eth1 -o eth0:1 -s 10.0.0.99 it occurred to me after doing this that I probably am not forwarding anything with this rule at all, it would simply match on a packet with the source address 10.0.0.99 coming in on eth1 and leaving on eth0:1 (directed to do so by some other process, possibly the routing tables) and do nothing with it. It seems to me that the actual act of forwarding would have to be done with an entry in the routing table. Am I high or does this make sense? I'm not fully comfortable with setting up a firewall yet so one of you gurus confirming this would make me much more confident to proceed. Anyway, as a follow up question, if I'm right in my assumption that I should move this task out of iptables and into the routing tables what would the command be to do this? Something like `route add ...`, I'm not sure where to go from there (like I said, I'm not comfortable with this yet). As always any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ben. From ben_b at ppdonline.com Mon Jul 15 17:53:16 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iptables vs route Message-ID: <3D332AD9.BB122CA6@ppdonline.com> ditto the last one on the spamassasin thing. Hello again, I have another question regarding iptables, this time with regards to its role vs the duties of route. I was attempting to throw anything coming in on eth1 (the local area network interface in my firewall) on a specific 10-dot address to forward out of an alias on eth0 (namely eth0:1). I started to do this with the following iptables command... iptables -t filter -A FORWARD -i eth1 -o eth0:1 -s 10.0.0.99 it occurred to me after doing this that I probably am not forwarding anything with this rule at all, it would simply match on a packet with the source address 10.0.0.99 coming in on eth1 and leaving on eth0:1 (directed to do so by some other process, possibly the routing tables) and do nothing with it. It seems to me that the actual act of forwarding would have to be done with an entry in the routing table. Am I high or does this make sense? I'm not fully comfortable with setting up a firewall yet so one of you gurus confirming this would make me much more confident to proceed. Anyway, as a follow up question, if I'm right in my assumption that I should move this task out of iptables and into the routing tables what would the command be to do this? Something like `route add ...`, I'm not sure where to go from there (like I said, I'm not comfortable with this yet). As always any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ben. From austad at marketwatch.com Mon Jul 15 18:15:15 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F95@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Tried Covad SDSL? Yep, can only get iDSL through them, 144kbps. Sucks. Maybe Xcel energy will start testing those IP over power line thingies. Or maybe the FCC will reverse their decision and force cable providers to open their lines to other providers. Or maybe a bunch of us need to get together and build a nice wireless net and chip in on a fat pipe to the net. :) From ben_b at ppdonline.com Mon Jul 15 18:28:05 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iptables with ethernet aliases Message-ID: <3D332AAF.311B921F@ppdonline.com> Sorry if this goes out twice, I think spamassasin may have killed my earlier post. Hello, I'm trying to set up iptables to use ethernet aliases as incoming or outgoing devices, take the following command as an example... iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0:1 -j DNAT --to-destination 10.0.0.99 if I attempt to execute that command I receive the following message... WARNING: wierd character in interface 'eth0:1' (No aliases, :, !, or *). but if I then do a `iptables -L -t nat -v` the rule has made it into the chain complete with the supposedly bogus interface designation. So my question is whether this is just a warning as it indicated in the message and will actually function properly or if I'm truly not allowed to use ethernet aliasing in iptables. I have enough other chaos in my system right now that I can't just try to use it to find out, my packets could very well drop for a number of other reasons and I'd never know so a response from someone who has dealt with this before would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Ben. From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Jul 15 20:52:59 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F95@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Tried Covad SDSL? > > Yep, can only get iDSL through them, 144kbps. Sucks. Maybe Xcel energy > will start testing those IP over power line thingies. Or maybe the FCC will > reverse their decision and force cable providers to open their lines to > other providers. Or maybe a bunch of us need to get together and build a > nice wireless net and chip in on a fat pipe to the net. :) Gee, if you really feel like stirring the pot, go ahead and bring this up on the TCWUG list. Prepare to get flamed, though. The idea of building a wireless net and connecting it to a big pipe is a LOT easier said than done. If you feel like trying to help make it a reality, speak up. Jima From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jul 15 21:32:41 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008887F95@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020715212218.A5201@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jul 15, 2002), Jima was madly tapping out: > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > Tried Covad SDSL? > > > > Yep, can only get iDSL through them, 144kbps. Sucks. Maybe Xcel energy > > will start testing those IP over power line thingies. Or maybe the FCC will > > reverse their decision and force cable providers to open their lines to > > other providers. Or maybe a bunch of us need to get together and build a > > nice wireless net and chip in on a fat pipe to the net. :) > > Gee, if you really feel like stirring the pot, go ahead and bring > this up on the TCWUG list. Prepare to get flamed, though. The > idea of building a wireless net and connecting it to a big pipe is > a LOT easier said than done. If you feel like trying to help make > it a reality, speak up. > i'll second this. the meetings are the first tuesday of each month and the overlay vs. hotspot discussion is one of the more hotly debated discussions. the sucky part is the challlenge posed by our very boring terrain. we're a land of not many hills and lots of trees. which makes things a real pita. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From dante at plethora.net Mon Jul 15 22:53:10 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <20020715212218.A5201@botwerks.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jul 15, 2002), > Jima was madly tapping out: > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > > > > Tried Covad SDSL? > > > > > > Yep, can only get iDSL through them, 144kbps. Sucks. Maybe Xcel energy > > > will start testing those IP over power line thingies. Or maybe the FCC will > > > reverse their decision and force cable providers to open their lines to > > > other providers. Or maybe a bunch of us need to get together and build a > > > nice wireless net and chip in on a fat pipe to the net. :) > > > > Gee, if you really feel like stirring the pot, go ahead and bring > > this up on the TCWUG list. Prepare to get flamed, though. The > > idea of building a wireless net and connecting it to a big pipe is > > a LOT easier said than done. If you feel like trying to help make > > it a reality, speak up. > > > > i'll second this. the meetings are the first tuesday of each month > and the overlay vs. hotspot discussion is one of the more hotly > debated discussions. > > the sucky part is the challlenge posed by our very boring terrain. > we're a land of not many hills and lots of trees. which makes things > a real pita. > Yep, even being on top of a hill isn't much help here. I don't have good LOS much of anywhere one the leaves come in... -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From davisn at mailandnews.com Mon Jul 15 23:43:46 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup Message-ID: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> Hi, We have a Cisco 675 DSL router connecting the local network to the Internet. I'd like to put a firewall between the LAN and the Internet. We have a block of 8 address (6 after account for broadcast and network address), and don't want to use any more than necessary. The Cisco is operating in ppp mode (bridging mode *might* work, but we don't have a management cable to get it back out if it doesn't), so that burns one address. The firewall would require two more addesses, which would leave only three for the rest of the network. Obviously, I'm looking for a way to free up some of these addresses. NAT is not an option for some machines. After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. Anyone have any suggestions -- what's worth trying, what won't work, new ideas, etc.? --Nathan Davis From ccox at linuxsnob.com Tue Jul 16 00:15:09 2002 From: ccox at linuxsnob.com (ccox@linuxsnob.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: > burns one address. The firewall would require two more addesses, which > > Anyone have any suggestions -- what's worth trying, what won't work, new > ideas, etc.? The firewall shouldn't need more than one "real" ip address. the second IP would belong to your NAT'ed range. That'll leave you with 4 IP's for systems that cannot be NATed. I've not used the 675 in bridging mode, so I cant help much there, although if it's supported, I think that'd free up one more. (I think the 675 appears to have the IP of the other end of the ip link, instead of a PPP) hope that helps. -- LINUX, because rebooting is for adding hardware! www.linuxsnob.com <-- a little linux humor, and a very little support. From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Jul 16 06:45:33 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20020716054535.55c7dbcf.sfertch@real-time.com> My setup is similar. Here's the breakdown: Cisco 678: Gateway address to WWW Firewall: 1 nic being interface to WWW 1 nic being NAT/dhcp on internal side 1 nic being NAT/dhcp on separate subnet for DMZ So, technically, you really only use 4 total on the outside. Two from devices and two for broadcast etc., leaving you 4 more to play with. Not sure what you would need more than that for. You can route web traffic through your firewall to your webserver. Then, if you want to get fancy, an external DNS server will take up another one. Unless you want another box for mail only, but you can combine that with your DNS server. IIRC, you won't be able to do bridging unless your ISP sets you up that way. Being it's a 675, that may not be possible unless it's a different configuration on the router. Never played with a 675 myself. Shawn On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:41:04 -0500 Nathan Davis wrote: > Hi, > > We have a Cisco 675 DSL router connecting the local network to the > Internet. I'd like to put a firewall between the LAN and the > Internet. We have a block of 8 address (6 after account for broadcast > and network address), and don't want to use any more than necessary. > > The Cisco is operating in ppp mode (bridging mode *might* work, but we > don't have a management cable to get it back out if it doesn't), so > that burns one address. The firewall would require two more addesses, > which would leave only three for the rest of the network. Obviously, > I'm looking for a way to free up some of these addresses. NAT is not > an option for some machines. > > After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need > to use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if > there's a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip > address assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and > possibly the firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know > how the other end might take this, though), or assign the interface > connecting the firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > > Anyone have any suggestions -- what's worth trying, what won't work, > new ideas, etc.? > > --Nathan Davis > From jeffr at odeon.net Tue Jul 16 08:34:36 2002 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: Greetings, I was faced with exactly the same problem as you. What I ended up doing was using two seperate firewalls (probably overkill, I know). I'm using an OpenBSD bridging firewall just inside the Cisco 675. The bridging firewall is transparent to the network (i.e., it doesn't have an IP address assigned to either of it's interfaces). All traffic that comes in on one address is passed through the ipf rules set, with anything passing the rules being passed out the other interface. Behind that I've got a little 8-port hub. This serves as my DMZ. One of the ports is connected to a Linux-based firewall that does additional filtering, and does NAT for the private portion of my network. This firewall has one of my assigned IPs on it's outside interface. This lets me use the remainder of my assigned IPs for boxes in my DMZ, and I don't need to mess with doing NAT for my web/mail/DNS server. When I set this up the linux bridging code wasn't nearly as functional as it is today, so you may be able to do something similar entirely in linux today. The linux bridging code can be found at bridge.sourceforge.net. Jeff On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Nathan Davis wrote: > Hi, > > We have a Cisco 675 DSL router connecting the local network to the > Internet. I'd like to put a firewall between the LAN and the Internet. > We have a block of 8 address (6 after account for broadcast and network > address), and don't want to use any more than necessary. > > The Cisco is operating in ppp mode (bridging mode *might* work, but we > don't have a management cable to get it back out if it doesn't), so that > burns one address. The firewall would require two more addesses, which > would leave only three for the rest of the network. Obviously, I'm > looking for a way to free up some of these addresses. NAT is not an > option for some machines. > > After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to > use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's > a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address > assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the > firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other > end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the > firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > > Anyone have any suggestions -- what's worth trying, what won't work, new > ideas, etc.? > > --Nathan Davis > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Tue Jul 16 09:07:06 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] iptables vs route References: <3D332603.EFEAFB46@ppdonline.com> Message-ID: <3D3425AA.9040306@indivisuallearning.com> Routing should be handled by iptables. Routing is unecessary (and I actually wouldn't advise it). Also note that the forward chain does not go through the regular Input/Output chain sequence. I bypasses those chains. Thought I'd mention that in case you were using Input/Output to filter your forwarding rules. sim From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Tue Jul 16 09:38:41 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <3D342984.2000607@indivisuallearning.com> Nathan Davis wrote: >After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to >use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's >a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address >assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the >firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other >end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the >firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > If you want an interface w/ no IP I'd suggest getting the Linux bridging stuff. The idea would be to have 3 NIC's actually. One external (Router -> FW NIC), One for internal NAT'd addresses (any traffic can be forwarded through the firewall to internal hosts), the other would be a bridged interface to a DMZ (allows you to filter ports but doesn't need an IP). There are other ways to set this up also but this is the only way I can think of at the moment to get a firewall without using one of your addresses. Unless of course you just forward all your traffic through the firewall. If you want a dedicated address for a specific server instead of all your DNS entries going ot the firewall, the firewall can be multi-homed (multiple addresses/NIC). I could probably think of a few more ways to get it done but couldn't tell you the "best" way without a bit more info. sim From ndavis at iexposure.com Tue Jul 16 09:53:43 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <20020716054535.55c7dbcf.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> <20020716054535.55c7dbcf.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200207160936.13529.ndavis@iexposure.com> > IIRC, you won't be able to do bridging unless your ISP sets you up that > way. Being it's a 675, that may not be possible unless it's a different > configuration on the router. Never played with a 675 myself. The 675 can do bridging mode. The problem is that an ISP usually will do either bridging or PPP and not both. You can't just change the mode or it will not work anymore:( You said you don't have the management cable, you'd need that to change the mode. If you put a firewall behind a 675 doing bridging, the 675 is transparent to your network (like a hub). The outer NIC on the firewall will get the IP address assigned to you, whether static or DHCP. What you do with your internal NIC(s) and addresses is up to you. My $0.02 Nick > > Shawn > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:41:04 -0500 > > Nathan Davis wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We have a Cisco 675 DSL router connecting the local network to the > > Internet. I'd like to put a firewall between the LAN and the > > Internet. We have a block of 8 address (6 after account for broadcast > > and network address), and don't want to use any more than necessary. > > > > The Cisco is operating in ppp mode (bridging mode *might* work, but we > > don't have a management cable to get it back out if it doesn't), so > > that burns one address. The firewall would require two more addesses, > > which would leave only three for the rest of the network. Obviously, > > I'm looking for a way to free up some of these addresses. NAT is not > > an option for some machines. > > > > After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need > > to use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if > > there's a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip > > address assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and > > possibly the firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know > > how the other end might take this, though), or assign the interface > > connecting the firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions -- what's worth trying, what won't work, > > new ideas, etc.? > > > > --Nathan Davis > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From bneigebauer at attbi.com Tue Jul 16 10:18:41 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> <3D342984.2000607@indivisuallearning.com> Message-ID: <3D3436DD.9080800@attbi.com> I have setup the transparent (bridging) firewalll in linux before. If you need help let me know I and I'll check my notes. The really cool thing is that you can also set up queueing and bandwidth shaping transparantly. There is a patch the hooks IP Tables/route back into the bridging code. So, if you don't want any one computer hogging bandwidth it might be worthwhile. Simeon Johnston wrote: > Nathan Davis wrote: > >> After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to >> use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's >> a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address >> assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the >> firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other >> end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the >> firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. >> > > If you want an interface w/ no IP I'd suggest getting the Linux > bridging stuff. > The idea would be to have 3 NIC's actually. One external (Router -> > FW NIC), One for internal NAT'd addresses (any traffic can be > forwarded through the firewall to internal hosts), the other would be > a bridged interface to a DMZ (allows you to filter ports but doesn't > need an IP). > There are other ways to set this up also but this is the only way I > can think of at the moment to get a firewall without using one of your > addresses. Unless of course you just forward all your traffic through > the firewall. If you want a dedicated address for a specific server > instead of all your DNS entries going ot the firewall, the firewall > can be multi-homed (multiple addresses/NIC). > > I could probably think of a few more ways to get it done but couldn't > tell you the "best" way without a bit more info. > > sim > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue Jul 16 11:39:28 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test client side ports open on firewall script Message-ID: hey gang- im looking to write a little script/tool (php perhaps?) that would test if a certain person is behind a firewall and is blocking a specific test. Problem: Potential client downloads an app, tries to log in for sales demo, gets warning about not being able to connect to port 5xxx and that it might just be a firewall. Goal: Have sales person visit a webpage that would test if they can connect (at some level) to these ports (5xxx), to avoid the downloading/installing client and then finding out that they cant connect. Any ideas on how this would be done? thanks duncan From cdf123 at cdf123.com Tue Jul 16 12:25:17 2002 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? Message-ID: <1026839551.4105.24.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Just wondering if there are any Mandrake 8.2 Experts out there. I could use some configuration advice/help. I have to run with High Security settings to get my display to run correctly (don't ask), so all my configuration has to be done in terminal windows as root. I'm kind of new to Linux, so my knowledge of the command line tools is a bit lacking. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'd like to learn how to configure/remove cron tasks (every 15 minutes all directories in /home get a chmod 700, I'd like to stop that), configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it open), and possibly update Apache to 2.0. If anyone knows of some HOWTOs/guides or whatever that explain more on these, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Chris Frederick From ndavis at iexposure.com Tue Jul 16 12:53:09 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026839551.4105.24.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026839551.4105.24.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <200207161241.51992.ndavis@iexposure.com> > I'd like to learn how to configure/remove cron tasks (every 15 minutes > all directories in /home get a chmod 700, I'd like to stop that), This is due to "msec". You can edit /var/lib/msec/security.conf if you want to change the behavior of msec; change CHECK_PERMS=yes to no. Or you can just stop msec from running by removing it from the cron.* dirs if you want to. If you actually want to edit the crontjobs.. you need to look at /etc/crontab and root's crontab. man crontab Nick -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Tue Jul 16 13:01:37 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026839551.4105.24.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026839551.4105.24.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <56056.63.91.48.130.1026841971.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Chris Frederick said: > Just wondering if there are any Mandrake 8.2 Experts out there. I could > use some configuration advice/help. I have to run with High Security > settings to get my display to run correctly (don't ask), so all my > configuration has to be done in terminal windows as root. I'm kind of > new to Linux, so my knowledge of the command line tools is a bit > lacking. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > I'd like to learn how to configure/remove cron tasks (every 15 minutes > all directories in /home get a chmod 700, I'd like to stop that), crontab -e > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > open), Not sure on this one, I use iptables for my firewalling. Don't know if Mandrake has a gui for this or not. > and possibly update Apache to 2.0. If anyone knows of some Obtain the latest Apache RPM, and use one of the many package tools in Mandrake to install it (rpm, urpmi, rpmdrake, kpackage) > HOWTOs/guides or whatever that explain more on these, I'd appreciate it. > Thanks in advance. Explore Mandrake's web site, they have some pretty good docs on there. -- |::::######## |::::######## Tracy McKibben |::::######## AIM: tmckibben2002 |############ tracy@mckibben.d2g.com |############ http://mckibben.d2g.com |############ Currently 85?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 88?F From kbongers at infinetivity.com Tue Jul 16 13:02:02 2002 From: kbongers at infinetivity.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test client side ports open on firewall script In-Reply-To: ; from duncan@sodatrain.com on Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 12:30:12PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20020716125329.A2959@localhost.localdomain> A java applet would work nice. I don't think server side scripting would be useful. Of coarse you need something on the server side to fetch or respond. On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 12:30:12PM -0400, Duncan Shannon wrote: > hey gang- > > im looking to write a little script/tool (php perhaps?) that would test if > a certain person is behind a firewall and is blocking a specific test. > > Problem: Potential client downloads an app, tries to log in for sales > demo, gets warning about not being able to connect to port 5xxx and that > it might just be a firewall. > > Goal: Have sales person visit a webpage that would test if they can > connect (at some level) to these ports (5xxx), to avoid the > downloading/installing client and then finding out that they cant connect. > > Any ideas on how this would be done? > > thanks > duncan > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From davisn at mailandnews.com Tue Jul 16 13:04:25 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup References: Message-ID: <3D345E16.1F15A868@mailandnews.com> Thanks a bunch! This looks *perfect* for what I want to do. Redhat 7.3 even has packages for it, and it looks like you can assign it an ip address as well (e.g., for remote access). I don't mind using NAT for web services, etc., but I'm running a small AFS cell as well, and that would pretty much break access to AFS from the outside (which would be nice, but not absolutely necessary). Now that I think about it, it would be possible to use tunnelling to make it work for select clients, but (a) this might be difficult to get working in windows and (b) it would not work for general public access if I wanted to allow it sometime in the future. I'll check it out. Thanks. --Nathan Davis jeffr@odeon.net wrote: > Greetings, > > I was faced with exactly the same problem as you. What I ended up doing > was using two seperate firewalls (probably overkill, I know). > > I'm using an OpenBSD bridging firewall just inside the Cisco 675. The > bridging firewall is transparent to the network (i.e., it doesn't have an > IP address assigned to either of it's interfaces). All traffic that comes > in on one address is passed through the ipf rules set, with anything > passing the rules being passed out the other interface. > > Behind that I've got a little 8-port hub. This serves as my DMZ. One of > the ports is connected to a Linux-based firewall that does additional > filtering, and does NAT for the private portion of my network. This > firewall has one of my assigned IPs on it's outside interface. > > This lets me use the remainder of my assigned IPs for boxes in my DMZ, and > I don't need to mess with doing NAT for my web/mail/DNS server. > > When I set this up the linux bridging code wasn't nearly as functional as > it is today, so you may be able to do something similar entirely in linux > today. The linux bridging code can be found at bridge.sourceforge.net. > > Jeff > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Nathan Davis wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > We have a Cisco 675 DSL router connecting the local network to the > > Internet. I'd like to put a firewall between the LAN and the Internet. > > We have a block of 8 address (6 after account for broadcast and network > > address), and don't want to use any more than necessary. > > > > The Cisco is operating in ppp mode (bridging mode *might* work, but we > > don't have a management cable to get it back out if it doesn't), so that > > burns one address. The firewall would require two more addesses, which > > would leave only three for the rest of the network. Obviously, I'm > > looking for a way to free up some of these addresses. NAT is not an > > option for some machines. > > > > After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to > > use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's > > a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address > > assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the > > firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other > > end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the > > firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions -- what's worth trying, what won't work, new > > ideas, etc.? > > > > --Nathan Davis > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jul 16 13:10:13 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <200207161241.51992.ndavis@iexposure.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Nick Davis > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:42 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? > > > > > I'd like to learn how to configure/remove cron tasks (every 15 minutes > > all directories in /home get a chmod 700, I'd like to stop that), > > This is due to "msec". You can edit /var/lib/msec/security.conf > if you want to > change the behavior of msec; change CHECK_PERMS=yes to no. Or > you can just > stop msec from running by removing it from the cron.* dirs if you want to. > > If you actually want to edit the crontjobs.. you need to look at > /etc/crontab > and root's crontab. > > man crontab > Or, alternately, run/install webmin (which comes with Mandrake), and do it from there, via an easy-for-me-at-least-to-use graphics interface with the crontab, among many other things. From rwh at umn.edu Tue Jul 16 13:57:12 2002 From: rwh at umn.edu (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test client side ports open on firewall script References: Message-ID: <3D346B35.9070506@umn.edu> You can use a java applet as long as the server you're testing against is the same as the service that feeds the applet to the client, otherwise the security hassles probably make it more trouble than it is worth. What about running a web server that listens to the all od the ports you want to test and then load a html page that populates a with a image from each port, say a big green + sign. Throw in a javascript error handler to load a big red - image from a known good port (say port 80) when the port isn't available and it might even look good to the client. Even without the javascript you'd end up with a + sign where the port was available and a broken image icon when it wasn't - plus everything is straight static html. --rick Duncan Shannon wrote: >hey gang- > >im looking to write a little script/tool (php perhaps?) that would test if >a certain person is behind a firewall and is blocking a specific test. > >Problem: Potential client downloads an app, tries to log in for sales >demo, gets warning about not being able to connect to port 5xxx and that >it might just be a firewall. > >Goal: Have sales person visit a webpage that would test if they can >connect (at some level) to these ports (5xxx), to avoid the >downloading/installing client and then finding out that they cant connect. > >Any ideas on how this would be done? > >thanks >duncan > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 16 16:11:32 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Offline mailreading In-Reply-To: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 10:41:16AM -0500 References: <20020712104115.A30738@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020716143143.E11345@real-time.com> On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 10:41:16AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > I'm going to be venturing out soon and spending some time in areas where > net access will be intermittent, at best, so I'm looking for suggestions > on how best to set things up on my laptop and mail server. > > Anyone have a better way of accomplishing what I want? saw this go across Freshmeat not too long ago: http://freshmeat.net/projects/offlineimap/?topic_id=31%2C28 sounds like it'll do what you want; but I haven't tried it. tell us how it works out. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From davisn at mailandnews.com Tue Jul 16 16:50:32 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> <3D342984.2000607@indivisuallearning.com> <3D3436DD.9080800@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3D348EDA.CAEC055@mailandnews.com> Ok, I need a little help. Banging my head against the wall isn't getting the job done anymore ;-) 1) I'm running Redhat 7.3 (kernel 2.4.18). Do you know if this needs to be patched? 2) I downloaded the script from http://www.sparkle-cc.co.uk/firewall/rc.firewall.sh.txt. Ran it, didn't work. I tried to run just a simple bridge (no firewall) with # ifdown eth0 # ifdown eth1 # brctl addbr br0 # brctl addif br0 eth1 # brctl addif br0 eth0 This should be sufficient to test that the bridging part is working, correct? Under this configuration I can't ping the Cisco. I have verified that both NICs work, and that the cabling between the NIC and the Cisco is correct. So anyway, I would appreciate any tips you could pass along. Thanks for the great help, --Nathan Davis BN wrote: > I have setup the transparent (bridging) firewalll in linux before. > If you need help let me know I and I'll check my notes. > The really cool thing is that you can also set up queueing and bandwidth > shaping transparantly. > There is a patch the hooks IP Tables/route back into the bridging code. > So, if you don't want any one computer hogging bandwidth it might be > worthwhile. > > Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > Nathan Davis wrote: > > > >> After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to > >> use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's > >> a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address > >> assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the > >> firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other > >> end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the > >> firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > >> > > > > If you want an interface w/ no IP I'd suggest getting the Linux > > bridging stuff. > > The idea would be to have 3 NIC's actually. One external (Router -> > > FW NIC), One for internal NAT'd addresses (any traffic can be > > forwarded through the firewall to internal hosts), the other would be > > a bridged interface to a DMZ (allows you to filter ports but doesn't > > need an IP). > > There are other ways to set this up also but this is the only way I > > can think of at the moment to get a firewall without using one of your > > addresses. Unless of course you just forward all your traffic through > > the firewall. If you want a dedicated address for a specific server > > instead of all your DNS entries going ot the firewall, the firewall > > can be multi-homed (multiple addresses/NIC). > > > > I could probably think of a few more ways to get it done but couldn't > > tell you the "best" way without a bit more info. > > > > sim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Jul 16 17:59:22 2002 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026839551.4105.24.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > open) good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll sick lidja on you.... -munir From bneigebauer at attbi.com Tue Jul 16 19:02:41 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <3D348EDA.CAEC055@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <000201c22d22$694a4c10$fc62a8c0@slick> The cards have to be up, I believe in promiscuous mode. Check this http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/BRIDGE-STP-HOWTO/set-up-the-bridge.html#BASIC- SETUP out, it goes through the basic steps. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Davis Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:24 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup Ok, I need a little help. Banging my head against the wall isn't getting the job done anymore ;-) 1) I'm running Redhat 7.3 (kernel 2.4.18). Do you know if this needs to be patched? 2) I downloaded the script from http://www.sparkle-cc.co.uk/firewall/rc.firewall.sh.txt. Ran it, didn't work. I tried to run just a simple bridge (no firewall) with # ifdown eth0 # ifdown eth1 # brctl addbr br0 # brctl addif br0 eth1 # brctl addif br0 eth0 This should be sufficient to test that the bridging part is working, correct? Under this configuration I can't ping the Cisco. I have verified that both NICs work, and that the cabling between the NIC and the Cisco is correct. So anyway, I would appreciate any tips you could pass along. Thanks for the great help, --Nathan Davis BN wrote: > I have setup the transparent (bridging) firewalll in linux before. > If you need help let me know I and I'll check my notes. > The really cool thing is that you can also set up queueing and bandwidth > shaping transparantly. > There is a patch the hooks IP Tables/route back into the bridging code. > So, if you don't want any one computer hogging bandwidth it might be > worthwhile. > > Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > Nathan Davis wrote: > > > >> After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really need to > >> use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if there's > >> a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address > >> assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly the > >> firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the other > >> end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting the > >> firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > >> > > > > If you want an interface w/ no IP I'd suggest getting the Linux > > bridging stuff. > > The idea would be to have 3 NIC's actually. One external (Router -> > > FW NIC), One for internal NAT'd addresses (any traffic can be > > forwarded through the firewall to internal hosts), the other would be > > a bridged interface to a DMZ (allows you to filter ports but doesn't > > need an IP). > > There are other ways to set this up also but this is the only way I > > can think of at the moment to get a firewall without using one of your > > addresses. Unless of course you just forward all your traffic through > > the firewall. If you want a dedicated address for a specific server > > instead of all your DNS entries going ot the firewall, the firewall > > can be multi-homed (multiple addresses/NIC). > > > > I could probably think of a few more ways to get it done but couldn't > > tell you the "best" way without a bit more info. > > > > sim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From alcyone at slava.net Tue Jul 16 21:58:57 2002 From: alcyone at slava.net (Lorry) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] beermeeting thurs Message-ID: <20020717025246.GA2317@sadalbari> The beermeeting is this Thursday, not last Thursday, and is at Barley John's. http://beer.tclug.org for more info. Apologies for not sending out a "no beermeeting" notice last week. We will return to our normal schedule after this week (i.e. there will be one next week also). Lorry From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Jul 17 07:49:00 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? Message-ID: <4950d03c03059c07d2@[172.29.97.10]> telnet bad ssh good > -----Original Message----- > From: Munir Nassar [SMTP:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:33 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? > > On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > > > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd > like it > > open) > > good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll > sick > lidja on you.... > > -munir > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list IPC MMII From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Jul 17 08:33:09 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] UofM debian mirror Message-ID: Anyone know what's up with it? Has it's address changed again? Has it been taken down? - kremer From cdf123 at cdf123.com Wed Jul 17 08:46:20 2002 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. Chris Frederick On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 15:33, Munir Nassar wrote: On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > open) good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll sick lidja on you.... -munir _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Jul 17 09:09:22 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? Message-ID: <4994edac03060807d2@[172.29.97.10]> > If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > > Putty IPC MMII From bbaptist at iexposure.com Wed Jul 17 09:11:17 2002 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <200207170901.40113.bbaptist@iexposure.com> In my mind there is really only one Windows client you need. PuTTY. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html Bret. On Wednesday 17 July 2002 08:32 am, Chris Frederick wrote: > hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through > the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most > Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need > to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a > possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh > client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the > block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > > Chris Frederick > > On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 15:33, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > > open) > > good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll sick > lidja on you.... > > -munir > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. From linux at bmetzler.org Wed Jul 17 09:11:34 2002 From: linux at bmetzler.org (Brent Metzler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <3D357687.3080903@bmetzler.org> Chris Frederick wrote: >hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through >the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most >Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need >to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a >possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh >client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the >block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client >for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > > > google for putty.exe Brent From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Jul 17 09:18:01 2002 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: On 17 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. putty http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ - kremer From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Wed Jul 17 09:19:46 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: Was: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts?, Now:Openssh fer winders In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <02071709012000.19413@nancy> On Wednesday 17 July 2002 08:32, Chris Frederick wrote: SNIP--- > If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > > Chris Frederick > http://www.networksimplicity.com/openssh/ Kelly Black KB0GBJ From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Wed Jul 17 09:27:46 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <02071709031401.19413@nancy> On Wednesday 17 July 2002 08:32, Chris Frederick wrote: --SNIP-- > If I could get a good ssh > client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the > block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > > Chris Frederick One could try Putty as well. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ Kelly Black KB0GBJ From rudie at rudie.net Wed Jul 17 09:30:12 2002 From: rudie at rudie.net (K Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <20020717091653.142cad03.rudie@rudie.net> On 17 Jul 2002 08:32:29 -0500 Chris Frederick wrote: > hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never > through the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh > and most Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I > wouldn't need to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, > witch is still a possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I > could get a good ssh client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I > still have to get rid of the block on that port. If anyone could > recommend a good free ssh client for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go > with ssh. PuTTY, a win32 ssh client, rawks. I use it when I have to be on a wintendo box. It can be found here: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net From sos at zjod.net Wed Jul 17 09:59:19 2002 From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. Message-ID: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net> Just got probed on what looks to be a new combination of ports: > Jul 17 09:42:44 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=46899 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > Jul 17 09:42:47 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=48811 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > Jul 17 09:42:47 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > Jul 17 09:42:54 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=52954 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? thanks, -S From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Wed Jul 17 10:27:33 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. In-Reply-To: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net> References: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net> Message-ID: <50847.63.91.48.130.1026918981.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Steve Siegfried said: > > Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? Looks like somebody probing for a proxy server. Those are all common ports for a proxy to be using, 3128 in particular is the default (I believe) for Squid. -- |::::######## |::::######## Tracy McKibben |::::######## AIM: tmckibben2002 |############ tracy@mckibben.d2g.com |############ http://mckibben.d2g.com |############ Currently 82?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 84?F From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Jul 17 10:27:56 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. Message-ID: Maybe someone trying to discover a web proxy... 3128 is the default ports for Squid. >>> sos@zjod.net 07/17/02 09:50AM >>> Just got probed on what looks to be a new combination of ports: > Jul 17 09:42:44 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=46899 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > Jul 17 09:42:47 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=48811 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > Jul 17 09:42:47 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > Jul 17 09:42:54 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=52954 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? thanks, -S _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From linux at bmetzler.org Wed Jul 17 10:28:12 2002 From: linux at bmetzler.org (Brent Metzler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. References: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net> Message-ID: <3D35890B.20202@bmetzler.org> Steve Siegfried wrote: >Just got probed on what looks to be a new combination of ports: > > > Jul 17 09:42:44 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=46899 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > > Jul 17 09:42:47 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=48811 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > > Jul 17 09:42:47 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > > Jul 17 09:42:54 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=52954 F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > > > >Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? > > Look at this listing of public proxies. Notice the common ports used? http://tools.rosinstrument.com/proxy/ It looks like someone was scanning to see if you had a public proxy running. Brent Metzler 612-270-0119 brent@bmetzler.org From rwh at umn.edu Wed Jul 17 10:39:06 2002 From: rwh at umn.edu (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <3D357BA3.2040502@umn.edu> I'd point out that the default telnet client on Windows really sucks, but I digress. As for free clients, there's http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ http://www.zip.com.au/~roca/ttssh.html http://www.cygwin.com When I need a' real' terminal emulator I usually use TeraTerm Pro with ttssh but most of the time I just use the ssh client that comes with the Cygwin distribution. --rick Chris Frederick wrote: >hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through >the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most >Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need >to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a >possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh >client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the >block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client >for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > >Chris Frederick > >On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 15:33, Munir Nassar wrote: > On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > > > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > > open) > > good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll sick > lidja on you.... > > -munir > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From chuck at redroot.org Wed Jul 17 10:44:06 2002 From: chuck at redroot.org (Chuck Milam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe there were some Squid exploits published recently, probably looking for some vulnerable systems. -- Chuck Milam chuck@redroot.org From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 17 11:04:54 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00888800F@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> You should upgrade squid to 2.4.STABLE7. There are holes in previous versions that allow remote execution of code via gopher and some ftp parsing code, and also through the MSNT helper code. The new version was released about two weeks ago, you should probably upgrade if you haven't already. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Brent Metzler [mailto:linux@bmetzler.org] > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:11 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. > > > Steve Siegfried wrote: > > >Just got probed on what looks to be a new combination of ports: > > > > > Jul 17 09:42:44 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 PROTO=6 > > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=46899 > F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: webcache connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > > > Jul 17 09:42:44 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 8000 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1209 > > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: webcache connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1211 > > > Jul 17 09:42:45 TCP: port 3128 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1212 > > > Jul 17 09:42:47 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 > PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=48811 > F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > > > Jul 17 09:42:47 TCP: port 81 connection attempt from > FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 > > > Jul 17 09:42:54 sos kernel: Packet log: input DENY eth1 > PROTO=6 FOREIGN_IPADDR:1210 MY_IPADDR:81 L=48 S=0x00 I=52954 > F=0x4000 T=105 SYN (#348) > > > > > > >Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? > > > > > > Look at this listing of public proxies. Notice the common > ports used? > http://tools.rosinstrument.com/proxy/ It looks like someone was scanning to see if you had a public proxy running. Brent Metzler 612-270-0119 brent@bmetzler.org _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us Wed Jul 17 11:18:51 2002 From: admin at support.lctn.k12.mn.us (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] fix a mess Message-ID: <3325.204.220.59.130.1026917971.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Last week I had a mail server crash, so I set up a new Redhat 7.3 server for mail and web. I have manually added the users, and was pretty happy to resolve the problem. it now looks like the PC I used is unstable, so I have to move everything to another box. Can I just pop the HD into another box, and let it find new hardware? if not, I could use some info on what files to backup and restore to the new box, so I am able to preserve users, passwords, and mail. Thanks in advance -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Jul 17 11:50:37 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] fix a mess Message-ID: Raymond, It _should_ be fine to pop the HDD into another box and let it discover the new hardware, but never rely on it. Make a backup of "/etc" and "/var", and store them someplace safe. There may be other places that configuration info is stored, but that is at least a good start. Maybe store the output of "rpm -qa" in a safe place, along with any rpms/packages you downloaded separately from the original red hat distribution. That way, if the "hardware discovery" option goes bad, turn it into a fresh install and pull your backups/extras onto the new host and selectively replace the files you updated originally. Hopefully someone can give specific information on sendmail install files, but you should be able to get most of that info from the man pages, Email HOWTO, and from using "rpm" to query the sendmail package. Good luck, Troy >>> admin@support.lctn.k12.mn.us 07/17/02 09:59AM >>> Last week I had a mail server crash, so I set up a new Redhat 7.3 server for mail and web. I have manually added the users, and was pretty happy to resolve the problem. it now looks like the PC I used is unstable, so I have to move everything to another box. Can I just pop the HD into another box, and let it find new hardware? if not, I could use some info on what files to backup and restore to the new box, so I am able to preserve users, passwords, and mail. Thanks in advance -- Raymond Norton Little Crow Telemedia Network 320-234-0270 From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 17 11:51:08 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] fix a mess In-Reply-To: <3325.204.220.59.130.1026917971.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <3325.204.220.59.130.1026917971.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20020717164419.GB5982@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 09:59:31AM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: >Last week I had a mail server crash, so I set up a new Redhat 7.3 server >for mail and web. I have manually added the users, and was pretty happy to >resolve the problem. it now looks like the PC I used is unstable, so I have >to move everything to another box. Can I just pop the HD into another box, >and let it find new hardware? if not, I could use some info on what files >to backup and restore to the new box, so I am able to preserve users, >passwords, and mail. As long as the hardware config is basically the same yes. If you're using redhat's kernels and still have kudzu turned on, it should walk you right through integrating the new hardware and removing config of the old stuff. When i say "Basically the same" i mean as long asi you're not moving the hdd from an x86 to a sparc or alpha ;-) > >Thanks in advance > >-- >Raymond Norton >Little Crow Telemedia Network >320-234-0270 > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020717/c3dfc397/attachment.pgp From jspinti at dartdist.com Wed Jul 17 11:51:24 2002 From: jspinti at dartdist.com (James Spinti) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] fix a mess In-Reply-To: <3325.204.220.59.130.1026917971.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> References: <3325.204.220.59.130.1026917971.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <1026924134.4590.21.camel@Dart-71_linux> On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 09:59, Raymond Norton wrote: > Last week I had a mail server crash, so I set up a new Redhat 7.3 server > for mail and web. I have manually added the users, and was pretty happy to > resolve the problem. it now looks like the PC I used is unstable, so I have > to move everything to another box. Can I just pop the HD into another box, > and let it find new hardware? if not, I could use some info on what files > to backup and restore to the new box, so I am able to preserve users, > passwords, and mail. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > Raymond Norton > Little Crow Telemedia Network > 320-234-0270 I've never had to do a whole box, but when I change a lot of hardware, I just turn on kudzu -- chkconfig kudzu on -- and shutdown, change the hardware and babysit the reboot as it eliminates the old stuff and adds all the new stuff. I have never had a problem doing it that way, but your mileage may vary. -- Thanks, James Spinti jspinti at dartdist dot com 952-368-3278 ext 396 fax 952-368-3255 From dante at plethora.net Wed Jul 17 13:19:47 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] fix a mess In-Reply-To: <3325.204.220.59.130.1026917971.squirrel@support.lctn.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Raymond Norton wrote: > Last week I had a mail server crash, so I set up a new Redhat 7.3 server > for mail and web. I have manually added the users, and was pretty happy to > resolve the problem. it now looks like the PC I used is unstable, so I have > to move everything to another box. Can I just pop the HD into another box, > and let it find new hardware? if not, I could use some info on what files > to backup and restore to the new box, so I am able to preserve users, > passwords, and mail. > I'd advise against it. If your current system is unstable it may either be or have effected the HDD. I'd recommend a complete fresh system, then use scp or NFS to copy your volatile data over after the new system is configured. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 17 14:18:17 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. In-Reply-To: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net>; from sos@zjod.net on Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 09:50:07AM -0500 References: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net> Message-ID: <20020717141122.Y1270@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 09:50:07AM -0500, Steve Siegfried wrote: > > Just got probed on what looks to be a new combination of ports: > [snip] Nobody mentioned that most IRC networks now scan you upon connecting to IRC, try doing a host lookup up the address that was probing. > > Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? > > thanks, > > -S -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 17 14:24:51 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] opennms Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888019@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Does anyone have OpenNMS (http://www.opennms.org) running? Is it worth it to spend the time installing it? How does it compare to Netsaint? Are there any distros that have it installed by default, like Telemetry linux? ==================== Jay Austad Network Administrator CBS MarketWatch 612.752.1132 From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jul 17 15:39:56 2002 From: seg at haxxed.com (Seg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <200207160936.13529.ndavis@iexposure.com> References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> <20020716054535.55c7dbcf.sfertch@real-time.com> <200207160936.13529.ndavis@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <1026937825.3d35d3e1cc24a@webmail.nerp.net> > > IIRC, you won't be able to do bridging unless your ISP sets you up > that > > way. Being it's a 675, that may not be possible unless it's a > different > > configuration on the router. Never played with a 675 myself. > > The 675 can do bridging mode. The problem is that an ISP usually will do > > either bridging or PPP and not both. You can't just change the mode or > it > will not work anymore:( You said you don't have the management cable, > you'd > need that to change the mode. When the ISP is set up for PPP, you can always set your 675 (or whatever) to bridging. You'll just have to run PPoE on whatever machine is connected to it since the 675 is just passing on whatever comes down the line, rather than handling the PPoE itself. This actually has the advantage that if you have a netblock to yourself the 675 is no longer taking an IP, the IP it would be taking can be taken up by a full blown Linux/BSD firewall rather than bothering with the 675's rather limited ability. From ndavis at iexposure.com Wed Jul 17 16:26:01 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup In-Reply-To: <1026937825.3d35d3e1cc24a@webmail.nerp.net> References: <3D33A3DF.8AF79BAB@mailandnews.com> <200207160936.13529.ndavis@iexposure.com> <1026937825.3d35d3e1cc24a@webmail.nerp.net> Message-ID: <200207171615.49900.ndavis@iexposure.com> On Wednesday 17 July 2002 15:30, Seg wrote: > > > IIRC, you won't be able to do bridging unless your ISP sets you up > > > > that > > > > > way. Being it's a 675, that may not be possible unless it's a > > > > different > > > > > configuration on the router. Never played with a 675 myself. > > > > The 675 can do bridging mode. The problem is that an ISP usually will do > > > > either bridging or PPP and not both. You can't just change the mode or > > it > > will not work anymore:( You said you don't have the management cable, > > you'd > > need that to change the mode. > > When the ISP is set up for PPP, you can always set your 675 (or whatever) > to bridging. You'll just have to run PPoE on whatever machine is connected > to it since the 675 is just passing on whatever comes down the line, rather > than handling the PPoE itself. > > This actually has the advantage that if you have a netblock to yourself the > 675 is no longer taking an IP, the IP it would be taking can be taken up by > a full blown Linux/BSD firewall rather than bothering with the 675's rather > limited ability. Interesting! I was not aware of that! Thanks! Nick -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From davisn at mailandnews.com Wed Jul 17 16:58:29 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup References: <000201c22d22$694a4c10$fc62a8c0@slick> Message-ID: <005501c22ddb$cee99ee0$0200000a@localdomain> Ok, thanks. I have basic bridging pretty much setup now. I think the problem might be (partially) ARP related. After I bring up br0, the LAN machines can't find the Cisco. If I ping the Cisco from the bridge, however, then everything works fine. Of course, no firewall rules yet ... just simple bridging. Any ideas? --Nathan Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: "BN" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup > The cards have to be up, I believe in promiscuous mode. > > Check this > http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/BRIDGE-STP-HOWTO/set-up-the-bridge.html#BASIC- > SETUP out, it goes through the basic steps. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Davis > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:24 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Firewall/Router Setup > > Ok, I need a little help. Banging my head against the wall isn't > getting the > job done anymore ;-) > > 1) I'm running Redhat 7.3 (kernel 2.4.18). Do you know if this needs to > be > patched? > > 2) I downloaded the script from > http://www.sparkle-cc.co.uk/firewall/rc.firewall.sh.txt. Ran it, didn't > work. > I tried to run just a simple bridge (no firewall) with > # ifdown eth0 > # ifdown eth1 > # brctl addbr br0 > # brctl addif br0 eth1 > # brctl addif br0 eth0 > This should be sufficient to test that the bridging part is working, > correct? > Under this configuration I can't ping the Cisco. I have verified that > both > NICs work, and that the cabling between the NIC and the Cisco is > correct. > > So anyway, I would appreciate any tips you could pass along. > > Thanks for the great help, > > --Nathan Davis > > BN wrote: > > > I have setup the transparent (bridging) firewalll in linux before. > > If you need help let me know I and I'll check my notes. > > The really cool thing is that you can also set up queueing and > bandwidth > > shaping transparantly. > > There is a patch the hooks IP Tables/route back into the bridging > code. > > So, if you don't want any one computer hogging bandwidth it might be > > worthwhile. > > > > Simeon Johnston wrote: > > > > > Nathan Davis wrote: > > > > > >> After thinking about this for awhile, I was wonding if I really > need to > > >> use two *real* ip addresses on the firewall machine. Or even if > there's > > >> a way to set up a default route to an interface with no ip address > > >> assigned. Another option might be to have the cisco (and possibly > the > > >> firewall too) obtain an ip address via dhcp (I don't know how the > other > > >> end might take this, though), or assign the interface connecting > the > > >> firewall to the Cisco a "fake" address. > > >> > > > > > > If you want an interface w/ no IP I'd suggest getting the Linux > > > bridging stuff. > > > The idea would be to have 3 NIC's actually. One external (Router -> > > > FW NIC), One for internal NAT'd addresses (any traffic can be > > > forwarded through the firewall to internal hosts), the other would > be > > > a bridged interface to a DMZ (allows you to filter ports but doesn't > > > need an IP). > > > There are other ways to set this up also but this is the only way > I > > > can think of at the moment to get a firewall without using one of > your > > > addresses. Unless of course you just forward all your traffic > through > > > the firewall. If you want a dedicated address for a specific server > > > instead of all your DNS entries going ot the firewall, the firewall > > > can be multi-homed (multiple addresses/NIC). > > > > > > I could probably think of a few more ways to get it done but > couldn't > > > tell you the "best" way without a bit more info. > > > > > > sim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From squack at citlink.net Wed Jul 17 16:59:02 2002 From: squack at citlink.net (William Brandt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? Message-ID: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> Was wondering what is out there for linux and if that is the place to start? Any sincere advice would be greatly appreciated. My info: Looking to be a network admin and be able to do html etc. and learn some programing. Love Linux and unix in general. Hate windo$e with a passion. Pounded on wido$e for 8 yrs. Been using linux(RedHat) now for about 6 months. Never played with any other OS's. I'm a truck driver moving into the geek world. Please any respectfull advise would be deeply appreciated. Thanks, Squack From cdf123 at cdf123.com Wed Jul 17 17:33:09 2002 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> References: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> Message-ID: <1026944670.7617.11.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Sup William, I'm about the same Linux age as you and I've found a lot of help on the net. www.linux.org and most ditribution website have free courses for newbes like us. As far as HTML, "HTML 4 Visual Quickstart Guide" is a good start. It also makes a great reference book in case you forget stuff after a while. There are some really good books on PHP out there, just can't remember them right now. You already got a good start though, most mailing list I've seen are full of people willing to help. Hope your Linux experience goes as good as mine has. I'm sure you'll love it here. Chris Frederick On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 16:53, William Brandt wrote: Was wondering what is out there for linux and if that is the place to start? Any sincere advice would be greatly appreciated. My info: Looking to be a network admin and be able to do html etc. and learn some programing. Love Linux and unix in general. Hate windo$e with a passion. Pounded on wido$e for 8 yrs. Been using linux(RedHat) now for about 6 months. Never played with any other OS's. I'm a truck driver moving into the geek world. Please any respectfull advise would be deeply appreciated. Thanks, Squack _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jiml at visi.com Wed Jul 17 17:38:36 2002 From: jiml at visi.com (James Louis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: Tera Term with the SSH add on works great. jl -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Chris Frederick Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:32 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. Chris Frederick On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 15:33, Munir Nassar wrote: On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > open) good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll sick lidja on you.... -munir _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Wed Jul 17 17:39:46 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <50983.63.91.48.130.1026919098.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Chris Frederick said: > hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through > the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most > Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need > to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a > possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh > client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the > block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. I think this has already been mentioned, but you need PuTTY!!!! -- |::::######## |::::######## Tracy McKibben |::::######## AIM: tmckibben2002 |############ tracy@mckibben.d2g.com |############ http://mckibben.d2g.com |############ Currently 82?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 84?F From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 17 18:12:26 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Strange ports probed. In-Reply-To: <50847.63.91.48.130.1026918981.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> References: <200207171450.g6HEo7r23213@zjod.net> <50847.63.91.48.130.1026918981.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Message-ID: <20020717164550.GC5982@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 10:16:21AM -0500, Tracy McKibben wrote: >Steve Siegfried said: >> >> Anybody seen this before and/or know what it is? > >Looks like somebody probing for a proxy server. Those are all common >ports for a proxy to be using, 3128 in particular is the default (I >believe) for Squid. Not just squid i don't think, i think that's the default http proxy port. > > > > >-- >|::::######## >|::::######## Tracy McKibben >|::::######## AIM: tmckibben2002 >|############ tracy@mckibben.d2g.com >|############ http://mckibben.d2g.com >|############ > Currently 82?F in Eden Prairie, MN, > but it feels like 84?F > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020717/6012ab8b/attachment.pgp From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Jul 17 18:21:01 2002 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? In-Reply-To: <50983.63.91.48.130.1026919098.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> <50983.63.91.48.130.1026919098.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Message-ID: <20020717180248.295eb629.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:18:18 -0500 (CDT) "Tracy McKibben" wrote: > > I think this has already been mentioned, but you need PuTTY!!!! > Don't forget about the PSCP client as well. -- Shawn sfertch@real-time.com Riding to find a cure for MS. To help sponsor my ride (July 21-26, 2002) for Multiple Sclerosis: https://www.nationalmssociety.org/pledge/pledge.asp?participantid=49466 From jack at jacku.com Wed Jul 17 18:25:32 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> References: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> Message-ID: <200207171815.00093.jack@jacku.com> On Wednesday 17 July 2002 16:53, William Brandt wrote: > Was wondering what is out there for linux and if that is the place to > start? Any sincere advice would be greatly appreciated. > > My info: Looking to be a network admin and be able to do html etc. and > learn some programing. Love Linux and unix in general. Hate windo$e with > a passion. Pounded on wido$e for 8 yrs. Been using linux(RedHat) now for > about 6 months. Never played with any other OS's. I'm a truck driver > moving into the geek world. > > Please any respectfull advise would be deeply appreciated. > > > Thanks, Squack > [Disclaimer: I used to teach at a small career college so my opinions may be biased.] There are plenty of 2-year tech schools in town with "Network/PC Support and Admin" type courses. Many of these now include a Linux component along with the usual MS oriented stuff. My suggestion is to look for a program that does not include certifications as part of the core program. Most will have "prep classes" for A+, Net+, etc. which is good, but won't promise that "you'll be an A+ certified technician or MCSE or RHCE, etc" when your done. These are usually more broadly defined with some actual business practice education as part of the program. Most of these programs will include basic HTML and some scripting or possibly VB, to teach basic programming skills. When I taught up in Duluth we had several people in your situation. Tired of what they were doing and looking for a change of pace. Good Luck! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jul 18 02:24:28 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: UofM debian mirror In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1026974182.7549.15.camel@runabout> On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 08:13, Kremer wrote: > Anyone know what's up with it? > Has it's address changed again? Has it been taken down? saens.debian.org should have the correct IP address. It's being moved and the DNS transfers are taking longer than expected. debian-mirror.cs.umn.edu domain name should start working as soon as I can convince someone to get me dns access for the new subnet. the new ip is 128.101.80.31 i think offhand :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ PATRIOT, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. From piemontemd at mysun.com Thu Jul 18 02:25:20 2002 From: piemontemd at mysun.com (Michael Piemonte) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? Message-ID: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a brand new program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the only school I found that offers Linux training. Michael D. Piemonte From mike at Jentges.NET Thu Jul 18 02:40:04 2002 From: mike at Jentges.NET (MJ) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: <20020715212218.A5201@botwerks.org> Message-ID: Ok, so I'm completely ignorant. I'll risk looking like an idiot and ask. How can wireless data be worth a sh** if I drop calls on my cell going under a bridge or some such? There's obviously a difference, but.... Stop laughing! Mike Jentges -- Jentges.Net, Inc. Voice: 763-783-3702 ************************************************** Cell: 763-370-1201 **** Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.**** http://jentges.net ************************************************** From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Jul 18 04:35:41 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: ; from mike@jentges.net on Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 02:25:50AM -0500 References: <20020715212218.A5201@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020718040518.A30231@okane.localnet> I hear wireless networks are easier to hack into, eg, "drive by hacking"... MJ wrote: > > Ok, so I'm completely ignorant. I'll risk looking like an idiot and ask. > > How can wireless data be worth a sh** if I drop calls on my cell going > under a bridge or some such? There's obviously a difference, but.... > > Stop laughing! > > > Mike Jentges > -- > Jentges.Net, Inc. > Voice: 763-783-3702 ************************************************** > Cell: 763-370-1201 **** Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.**** > http://jentges.net ************************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -scot From dsherman at real-time.com Thu Jul 18 07:25:56 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> References: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> Message-ID: <1026994663.4753.1.camel@dedannshae> On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 22:01, Michael Piemonte wrote: > I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a brand new > program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the only school I > found that offers Linux training. Hennepin Tech has Unix I and II classes, which are taught on RedHat PCs. -- Dave Sherman Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, MCSE, MCSA, CCNA for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. "lynx -source http://sildara.dyndns.org/davepub.asc | gpg --import" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020718/c7559058/attachment.pgp From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Jul 18 09:33:09 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: MJ writes: > Ok, so I'm completely ignorant. I'll risk looking like an idiot and ask. > > How can wireless data be worth a sh** if I drop calls on my cell going > under a bridge or some such? There's obviously a difference, but.... Well, for one thing I mostly don't want to use my wireless net connectivity while driving, since I need my eyes and hands on the computer to get much good out of it. When I'm sitting still, the connectivity tends to be steady -- if I'm sitting under the bridge, perhaps non-existent, but steady. And then, the newer technologies with decent data rates are in a different frequency band from my current phone, and so behave differently, so what I see with my current phone isn't a good guide to what I'd see with a modern high-bandwidth data connection. And then some of the wireless connection discussion isn't about working through a phone system at all. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info From dante at plethora.net Thu Jul 18 09:35:41 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, MJ wrote: > > Ok, so I'm completely ignorant. I'll risk looking like an idiot and ask. > > How can wireless data be worth a sh** if I drop calls on my cell going > under a bridge or some such? There's obviously a difference, but.... > > Stop laughing! > TCP/IP is designed to deal with less than reliable connectivity, and wireless communications has been advancing steadily. I haven't lost a call on my Digital cellphone in ages, though I had regular drops when I was on analog. So what happens is that we hit the point where the reliability of the transport is up to a reasonable level relative to what the protocol is designed to deal with and things become practical. I would consider wireless today distinctly superior for data comms relative to land-line modem of 1993. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From jimstreit at northlans.com Thu Jul 18 09:50:18 2002 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> References: <3D35E74D.2060204@citlink.net> Message-ID: <1814.65.116.187.194.1027003018.squirrel@www.northlans.com> St. Paul technical college offers Linux classes. I took a class there this last spring. > Was wondering what is out there for linux and if that is the place to > start? Any sincere advice would be greatly appreciated. > > My info: Looking to be a network admin and be able to do html etc. and > learn some programing. Love Linux and unix in general. Hate windo$e with > a passion. Pounded on wido$e for 8 yrs. Been using linux(RedHat) now > for about 6 months. Never played with any other OS's. I'm a truck > driver moving into the geek world. > > Please any respectfull advise would be deeply appreciated. > > > Thanks, Squack > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From squack at citlink.net Thu Jul 18 10:44:42 2002 From: squack at citlink.net (William Brandt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? References: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> Message-ID: <3D36E052.2090809@citlink.net> Do you have any other school education(computer related), and if so what did you take for classes and or school(s)? Squack Michael Piemonte wrote: > I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a brand new > program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the only school I > found that offers Linux training. > > Michael D. Piemonte > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jul 18 12:51:28 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888055@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> The problem with simply going to classes is you don't get real work experience, which is what potential employers are looking for. It's a catch-22, how do you get experience if an employer won't hire you because you don't have any? My brother ran into this same issue. He took a 6 or 8 month course at the U of MN which taught Oracle database stuff and client->server programming using VB and some other languages. VB programmer jobs are a dime a dozen, but he couldn't get one because he didn't have any real work experience. Getting a linux sys admin or network job is likely going to be much harder, chances are you won't be able to start off doing what you want to do. Many people end up getting help desk jobs and working their way up either by proving themselves within the organization, or by switching to a better job after getting some experience. You could try getting some consulting work on your own to gain experience, but actually finding consulting work is time consuming. Most of the time, the consulting work finds you, and without much experience, this is unlikely to happen. Consulting agencies don't want to hire anyone that doesn't have experience either. If you need classes to learn the stuff, take them. But if you learn well on your own, don't waste the money. Concentrate on finding some job related to what you want to do and work your way up to where you want to be. I know I'm not painting a pretty picture of the situation, but sadly, this is how it is. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: William Brandt [mailto:squack@citlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:36 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? > > > Do you have any other school education(computer related), and > if so what > did you take for classes and or school(s)? > > Squack > > Michael Piemonte wrote: > > I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a > brand new > > program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the > only school I > > found that offers Linux training. > > > > Michael D. Piemonte > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jul 18 13:14:07 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> References: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> Message-ID: <1027007544.10024.46.camel@runabout> On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 22:01, Michael Piemonte wrote: > I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a brand new > program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the only school I > found that offers Linux training. The real problem is that you also need to really get into the community. Just having a certificate doesn't exactly get the 'best' jobs automatically. Many of us here with nifty jobs got them partially because we were familiar and active in the community. We have knowledge of how the packaging and distribution systems work and how to work within those systems to create an overall managable system. Having a certificate saying you know how to use unix systems is nice, but having experience and/or time working with groups of machines in a 'system' is excellent. IMO, doubly so if your using free tools to do so and contributing back (in the form of 'tips' even, someone needs to put up a "all the cool shit you can do with cfengine" page) to the community. Grabbing 5-10 machines (somehow, 3 would probally be fine) and just playing with having a way to centrally manage machines that aren't exactly the same (different packages, different hardware, etc) is valuable time. Probally more valuable than learning arcane unix commands. The problem I have these days is that I wish I had more time to work on distribution-type-stuff at work. Not necessairly working on debian things, but just prepping the next release to get pushed out to machines. I originally thought I would have more time to do so and had gradiose ideas about how I could push out new software every 6 months or so. Then I messed around with stablizing a unstable snapshot. Its not impossible, it just takes a bit of time compared to just grabbing the newest release. Of course, this goes into an argument about release management and other ideas that wasn't really on topic anyhow. :) [for the record, I've only got one certification, the SAGE cSAGE certification, www.sagecert.org. I'll proally get mSAGE or whatever the next level up is when it comes out.] -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From piemontemd at mysun.com Thu Jul 18 13:22:02 2002 From: piemontemd at mysun.com (Michael Piemonte) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? Message-ID: <8289b595.b5958289@mysun.com> First, St. Paul Tech. is offering it as a A.S.S. degree that will be able to transfer and get credit torwards a bachlors at the U of M. My other education I have alot of class in MCSE, A+, networking, some Solaris and Unix. I went to Century for some didn't offer a lot at the time transferred to Globe college, (that was a mistake), then to KRS Comouter school for Solaris And Unix training. Only thing wrong with them is that the teacher was always to busy to teach it seemed. So I looked around talk to some friends and found out about ST. Paul Tech. If wanted to I could get my A+, Network +, MCSE ( a couple), and CCNA. Most of all I leared alot on my own. Read books, challenge yourself at what you want to learn on Linux, if you break it, thats why you have the TCLUG people here to help you fix it. Michael D. Piemonte From patrickm at citilink.com Thu Jul 18 13:23:00 2002 From: patrickm at citilink.com (Patrick McCabe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac Message-ID: My wife has a G3 powerbook that isn't getting much use, so I was thinking about installing Linux to it. Is there a favorite distribution out there? We would like to dual boot and keep the existing Mac OS (OS 8.something). I assume I need a repartitioning tool for this - any recommendations? We have managed to misplace the Mac OS CD that I assume came with the computer. Any general words of advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Patrick McCabe From calance at qwest.net Thu Jul 18 13:38:03 2002 From: calance at qwest.net (Craig A. Lance) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Remove from list Message-ID: <004d01c22e88$83f9a080$9865fea9@cpu65mpls> How does one get off a mailing list? I want to turn it off while I'm out of town so my mailbox doesn't fill up. Thanks, -=- Craig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020718/84a2745d/attachment.htm From austad at marketwatch.com Thu Jul 18 13:49:33 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888069@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I would try OSX on it. As much as I like Linux, OSX is very sweet. You have your unix environment, with a pretty GUI and the ability to run things like Quicken. Plus, you can install all sorts of GNU stuff, and a rootless X server. If you don't like it, you can always wipe it and install linux. I've been using Gentoo lately and I love it, there's a PPC version too. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick McCabe [mailto:patrickm@citilink.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:33 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac > > > My wife has a G3 powerbook that isn't getting much use, so I > was thinking about installing Linux to it. Is there a > favorite distribution out there? We would like to dual boot > and keep the existing Mac OS (OS 8.something). I assume I > need a repartitioning tool for this - any recommendations? > > We have managed to misplace the Mac OS CD that I assume came > with the computer. > > Any general words of advice would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Patrick McCabe > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From linux at bmetzler.org Thu Jul 18 13:55:27 2002 From: linux at bmetzler.org (Brent Metzler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac References: Message-ID: <3D370A32.5050700@bmetzler.org> Patrick McCabe wrote: >My wife has a G3 powerbook that isn't getting much use, so I was thinking >about installing Linux to it. Is there a favorite distribution out there? >We would like to dual boot and keep the existing Mac OS (OS 8.something). >I assume I need a repartitioning tool for this - any recommendations? > I believe there are only 3 PowerPC distributions left. YellowDog, Debian, and Mandrake. Mandrake and Debian have the advantage that you can use the same distributions on both your i386 and PPC boxes. However, the disadvantage of Mandrake is that I haven't seemed to be able to find a US distributor for it. I've use YellowDog on my Macs for one reason. I have dialup, and Debians strength seems to be in running unstable and updating frequently. Not fun over dialup. YellowDog 2.3 ISO's should be available soon, and the distribution seems to be very up-to-date and modern. > >We have managed to misplace the Mac OS CD that I assume came with the >computer. > > > Me too. :( I assume Mandrake lets you resize partitions on PPC too. I don't remember if YellowDog does. Also, don't forget about Mac-On-Linux. (Although I havent had time to get it working yet.) Brent Metzler brent@bmetzler.org From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jul 18 14:00:53 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020718184858.GA4795@sistina.com> On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:32:31PM -0500, Patrick McCabe wrote: >My wife has a G3 powerbook that isn't getting much use, so I was thinking >about installing Linux to it. Is there a favorite distribution out there? >We would like to dual boot and keep the existing Mac OS (OS 8.something). >I assume I need a repartitioning tool for this - any recommendations? > >We have managed to misplace the Mac OS CD that I assume came with the Gentoo has a ppc port (http://www.gentoo.org) >computer. > >Any general words of advice would be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Patrick McCabe > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020718/9d3889b6/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jul 18 14:12:27 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888069@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888069@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020718190106.GB4795@sistina.com> On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:38:55PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: >I would try OSX on it. As much as I like Linux, OSX is very sweet. You >have your unix environment, with a pretty GUI and the ability to run things >like Quicken. Plus, you can install all sorts of GNU stuff, and a rootless >X server. If you don't like it, you can always wipe it and install linux. >I've been using Gentoo lately and I love it, there's a PPC version too. You may want to rethink that Gentoo use, after I'm a developer, be afraid. Be very afraid. lol -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020718/f2d1a349/attachment.pgp From mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com Thu Jul 18 14:13:03 2002 From: mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com (Michael J Flaherty) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac In-Reply-To: <20020718184858.GA4795@sistina.com> References: <20020718184858.GA4795@sistina.com> Message-ID: <200207181407.48450.mikeflaherty@mn.rr.com> On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:48, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > Gentoo has a ppc port (http://www.gentoo.org) > As does Suse... From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Jul 18 14:36:53 2002 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Remove from list In-Reply-To: <004d01c22e88$83f9a080$9865fea9@cpu65mpls>; from calance@qwest.net on Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:25:37PM -0500 References: <004d01c22e88$83f9a080$9865fea9@cpu65mpls> Message-ID: <20020718142407.A25244@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:25:37PM -0500, Craig A. Lance wrote: > How does one get off a mailing list? I want to turn it off while > I'm out of town so my mailbox doesn't fill up. > For this list: 1. go to https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 2. go to "Edit Options" (near the bottom of the page) 3. change your list options. One of them is "disable mail delivery". 4. enter your password and hit 'submit my changes'. -- trammell@el-swifto.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Jul 18 14:37:45 2002 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <8289b595.b5958289@mysun.com>; from piemontemd@mysun.com on Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:10:17PM -0500 References: <8289b595.b5958289@mysun.com> Message-ID: <20020718142612.B25244@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 01:10:17PM -0500, Michael Piemonte wrote: > First, St. Paul Tech. is offering it as a A.S.S. degree that will be > able to transfer and get credit torwards a bachlors at the U of M. IHNTA, IJLTS "ASS degree". -- trammell@el-swifto.com | 78BA 706C C5F9 9321 E7C4 933B D063 907B A88E 924B Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota irc.openprojects.net #tclug From linux at bmetzler.org Thu Jul 18 14:46:29 2002 From: linux at bmetzler.org (Brent Metzler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac References: <20020718184858.GA4795@sistina.com> <200207181407.48450.mikeflaherty@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D3715E8.7070108@bmetzler.org> Michael J Flaherty wrote: >On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:48, Ben Lutgens wrote: > > > >>Gentoo has a ppc port (http://www.gentoo.org) >> >> >> > >As does Suse... > > But SuSE did not have a release of version 8 for PPC. All I see is 7.3, and who wants to run an old distribution? Is SuSE going to continue to support PPC? Does anyone have any more information on that? I'm thinking of Buying SuSE 8 professional edition soon, and it'd be keen if I can run the same distribution on both platforms. Brent Metzler brent@bmetzler.org From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jul 18 19:12:01 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1027033171.12824.9.camel@runabout> On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 09:19, Daniel Taylor wrote: > I haven't lost a call on my Digital cellphone in ages, though /me notes his voicestream phone didn't lose a call in the i94 (forgot the name ,lawry? probally spelling it wrong as usual) tunnel last week. I was damn surprised. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jul 18 19:12:39 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Putting Linux on a Mac In-Reply-To: <20020718190106.GB4795@sistina.com> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888069@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> <20020718190106.GB4795@sistina.com> Message-ID: <1027033294.12817.11.camel@runabout> On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 14:01, Ben Lutgens wrote: > You may want to rethink that Gentoo use, after I'm a developer, be afraid. > Be very afraid. Isn't it true that they just let anyone upload stuff into their archive anyhow? :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From piemontemd at mysun.com Thu Jul 18 19:16:12 2002 From: piemontemd at mysun.com (Michael Piemonte) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? Message-ID: <10123cd0b.cd0b10123@mysun.com> Sorry, that A.A.s. degree. Michael D. Piemonte From mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com Fri Jul 19 00:11:27 2002 From: mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com (Michael J Flaherty) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac In-Reply-To: <3D3715E8.7070108@bmetzler.org> References: <200207181407.48450.mikeflaherty@mn.rr.com> <3D3715E8.7070108@bmetzler.org> Message-ID: <200207190002.15930.mikeflaherty@mn.rr.com> On Thursday 18 July 2002 02:24, Brent Metzler wrote: > Michael J Flaherty wrote: > >On Thursday 18 July 2002 01:48, Ben Lutgens wrote: > >>Gentoo has a ppc port (http://www.gentoo.org) > > > >As does Suse... > > But SuSE did not have a release of version 8 for PPC. All I see is 7.3, > and who wants to run an old distribution? Is SuSE going to continue to > support PPC? Does anyone have any more information on that? > I was just adding that to the discussion, haven't tried Suse myself. YDL 2.3 is only about a week old, rpm based, now with apt for rpms to update and install extra stuff, nice... I've been extremely with YDL, all things considered. JRE's are much more limited than than they are on x86 and there's no Flash. Other than that... MJF From mike at Jentges.NET Fri Jul 19 00:24:00 2002 From: mike at Jentges.NET (MJ) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ATT is modifying some of my traffic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And then some of the wireless connection discussion isn't about > working through a phone system at all. > -- Granted, but radios static, etc. I guess I'm still living off the old ISP excuse as to why I only got 26400 on my dialup, because of the wires in my area, "Data requires much better quality than voice", etc. Again, I know nothing about it, trying to get the concept. -mj From squack at citlink.net Fri Jul 19 00:25:03 2002 From: squack at citlink.net (William Brandt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Schools for Linux? References: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> <1027007544.10024.46.camel@runabout> Message-ID: <3D37A0B5.5030300@citlink.net> The input is great! Was in Rochester today to meet with the Workforce people and see what I can get for help with funds and such, as I've just come back from being laid off. My thinking is that I would get certified in a few things and do the self marketing things. Right now I've done small PC work for family and a few customers here and there. Also setup a network up in my home, but never did setup many different types...guess I got to comfortable. My network spans over 4 apartments at one point and time, unfortunately it was all in windo$e. Right now I'm just working on web hosting and trying to figure it all out. The hard part is to take the pay cut from trucking and do work as help desk, but whatever it takes just wish there was a better way to keep the money moving. Working both trucking and desk help stuff is probably the way I'll go but it just leaves no spare time for other hard core learning such as school or just hammering away at home! By the way 8 yrs of windo$e and 6 months of Linux!! learned more in that 6 months of Linux than I did in 8 yrs of windo$es. Lugs are awesome!!! Scott Dier wrote: > On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 22:01, Michael Piemonte wrote: > >>I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a brand new >>program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the only school I >>found that offers Linux training. > > > The real problem is that you also need to really get into the > community. Just having a certificate doesn't exactly get the 'best' > jobs automatically. Many of us here with nifty jobs got them partially > because we were familiar and active in the community. We have knowledge > of how the packaging and distribution systems work and how to work > within those systems to create an overall managable system. Having a > certificate saying you know how to use unix systems is nice, but having > experience and/or time working with groups of machines in a 'system' is > excellent. IMO, doubly so if your using free tools to do so and > contributing back (in the form of 'tips' even, someone needs to put up a > "all the cool shit you can do with cfengine" page) to the community. > > Grabbing 5-10 machines (somehow, 3 would probally be fine) and just > playing with having a way to centrally manage machines that aren't > exactly the same (different packages, different hardware, etc) is > valuable time. Probally more valuable than learning arcane unix > commands. > > The problem I have these days is that I wish I had more time to work on > distribution-type-stuff at work. Not necessairly working on debian > things, but just prepping the next release to get pushed out to > machines. I originally thought I would have more time to do so and had > gradiose ideas about how I could push out new software every 6 months or > so. Then I messed around with stablizing a unstable snapshot. Its not > impossible, it just takes a bit of time compared to just grabbing the > newest release. Of course, this goes into an argument about release > management and other ideas that wasn't really on topic anyhow. :) > > [for the record, I've only got one certification, the SAGE cSAGE > certification, www.sagecert.org. I'll proally get mSAGE or whatever the > next level up is when it comes out.] > From cdf123 at cdf123.com Fri Jul 19 10:24:02 2002 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SuSE Router cannot connect to AT&T? Message-ID: <1027090565.4322.18.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> I'm trying to replace a Win2k router with Linux. I've been using SuSE at home for this for some time now, connecting to McLeodUSA perfectly. I tried to do the same thing for a company I do computer work for, they have AT&T Worldnet access, but I can't log into the service. I set up my McLeodUSA account on that same machine and it works perfectly. The only difference is AT&T wants the domain on the login name (1234567@worldnet.att.net) to log in correctly. I'm not sure why this would fail. Win2k connects fine and Linux connects to McLeod fine, why would AT&T be different? Any help would be appreciated. I'd like nothing more than to get rid of these damn Win2k CDs for good. Chris Frederick From ndavis at iexposure.com Fri Jul 19 10:24:44 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Schools for Linux? In-Reply-To: <3D37A0B5.5030300@citlink.net> References: <487404a704.4a70448740@mysun.com> <1027007544.10024.46.camel@runabout> <3D37A0B5.5030300@citlink.net> Message-ID: <200207191024.08438.ndavis@iexposure.com> Well how about bringing a laptop with you while you go trucking. I'm sure there are some down times while you are getting loaded or unloaded or waiting for places to open etc.. where you could sit and futz around on a linux laptop. You can run apache, mysql, etc al. on the laptop and give yourself some time to learn them. This won't help much with learning networking, but it's a start.. oh yea. you could also learn some programming/scripting if that interests you. Just some thoughts! Nick On Friday 19 July 2002 00:16, William Brandt wrote: > The input is great! Was in Rochester today to meet with the Workforce > people and see what I can get for help with funds and such, as I've just > come back from being laid off. My thinking is that I would get certified > in a few things and do the self marketing things. Right now I've done > small PC work for family and a few customers here and there. Also setup > a network up in my home, but never did setup many different > types...guess I got to comfortable. My network spans over 4 apartments > at one point and time, unfortunately it was all in windo$e. Right now > I'm just working on web hosting and trying to figure it all out. The > hard part is to take the pay cut from trucking and do work as help desk, > but whatever it takes just wish there was a better way to keep the money > moving. Working both trucking and desk help stuff is probably the way > I'll go but it just leaves no spare time for other hard core learning > such as school or just hammering away at home! By the way 8 yrs of > windo$e and 6 months of Linux!! learned more in that 6 months of Linux > than I did in 8 yrs of windo$es. Lugs are awesome!!! > > Scott Dier wrote: > > On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 22:01, Michael Piemonte wrote: > >>I'm signed up at St. Paul Tech for Linux System Adm. Its a brand new > >>program there it trains for your RHCE Cert. That is the only school I > >>found that offers Linux training. > > > > The real problem is that you also need to really get into the > > community. Just having a certificate doesn't exactly get the 'best' > > jobs automatically. Many of us here with nifty jobs got them partially > > because we were familiar and active in the community. We have knowledge > > of how the packaging and distribution systems work and how to work > > within those systems to create an overall managable system. Having a > > certificate saying you know how to use unix systems is nice, but having > > experience and/or time working with groups of machines in a 'system' is > > excellent. IMO, doubly so if your using free tools to do so and > > contributing back (in the form of 'tips' even, someone needs to put up a > > "all the cool shit you can do with cfengine" page) to the community. > > > > Grabbing 5-10 machines (somehow, 3 would probally be fine) and just > > playing with having a way to centrally manage machines that aren't > > exactly the same (different packages, different hardware, etc) is > > valuable time. Probally more valuable than learning arcane unix > > commands. > > > > The problem I have these days is that I wish I had more time to work on > > distribution-type-stuff at work. Not necessairly working on debian > > things, but just prepping the next release to get pushed out to > > machines. I originally thought I would have more time to do so and had > > gradiose ideas about how I could push out new software every 6 months or > > so. Then I messed around with stablizing a unstable snapshot. Its not > > impossible, it just takes a bit of time compared to just grabbing the > > newest release. Of course, this goes into an argument about release > > management and other ideas that wasn't really on topic anyhow. :) > > > > [for the record, I've only got one certification, the SAGE cSAGE > > certification, www.sagecert.org. I'll proally get mSAGE or whatever the > > next level up is when it comes out.] > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From duncan at sodatrain.com Fri Jul 19 10:41:02 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Helping out / volunteering tech skills (with linux) Message-ID: Someone pointed me the Nonprofit Tech Talk mailing list. It appears to be lower volume than the TCLUG list. I subscribed as did someone from here (or was it tcphp) and we have mentioned linux skills... Tere have been a couple of people asking about linux, how to get into it, how to learn... Given that, i know people have talked on this list about trying to volunteer or help out... Here is their list info page: http://www.communityforum.net/mailman/listinfo/nonprofit_tech_talk It is sponsored by http://www.mapnp.org (Management Assistance Program for Non Profits). I mentioend the list, the install fests... i encourage thoes interested to subscribe and offer a hand! duncan From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Fri Jul 19 11:02:09 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Putting Linux on a Mac References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888069@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D381253.8020407@indivisuallearning.com> Deffinitely try OS X. It's great. I've been running it on my G3 PB (pismo 400MHz) and it's smooth. Never had a problem with it. Got Fink installed and running (port of apt utilities and GNU software). All around very nice. If, for some reason, you can't get X. I've used YellowDog on my 9500 and thought it worked rather well. This was just before I got the G3 so I didn't play with it much after that. :-) Gentoo also looks good. I've only installed it on a friends machine and didn't actually play with it. The install was fun though. And of course - Debian, Mandrake and Suse (I think... Not sure bout Suse). sim Austad, Jay wrote: >I would try OSX on it. As much as I like Linux, OSX is very sweet. You >have your unix environment, with a pretty GUI and the ability to run things >like Quicken. Plus, you can install all sorts of GNU stuff, and a rootless >X server. If you don't like it, you can always wipe it and install linux. >I've been using Gentoo lately and I love it, there's a PPC version too. > > From jclark at citilink.com Fri Jul 19 11:10:48 2002 From: jclark at citilink.com (Jeff Clark) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Openldap + TLS on RH7.1 Message-ID: <20020719135429.EF42D222@nogates.jeffclark.net> I'm trying to set up openldap using TLS on a Red Hat 7.1 server. I've got basic openldap working OK, but whenever I enable TLS it stops working. That is, if I comment out the TLS-related entries in config file excerpts below, doing a "genent passwd" on the ldap server will show both the passwd entries from /etc/passwd AND those that I have loaded into ldap. However, enabling TLS (by uncommenting the "ssl start_tls" line in /etc/ldap.conf) causes "getent passwd" to list ONLY those entries from /etc/passwd: the ldap entries do not appear (and to no great surprise, those users listed in the ldap config cannot log in). Some specifics ... [root@tux /root]# rpm -qa | grep ldap openldap-clients-2.0.21-0.7.1 openldap-devel-2.0.21-0.7.1 openldap-servers-2.0.21-0.7.1 php-ldap-4.0.6-14 openldap-2.0.21-0.7.1 nss_ldap-189-1.7 The /etc/nsswitch.conf file says: passwd: files ldap shadow: files ldap group: files ldap In my /etc/ldap.conf file I've got: host 127.0.0.1 base dc=jeffclark,dc=net rootbinddn cn=proxyuser,dc=jeffclark,dc=net scope one pam_filter objectclass=posixaccount pam_login_attribute uid pam_check_host_attr yes pam_member_attribute gid pam_template_login_attribute uid pam_password md5 nss_base_passwd ou=People,dc=jeffclark,dc=net?one nss_base_shadow ou=People,dc=jeffclark,dc=net?one nss_base_group ou=Group,dc=jeffclark,dc=net?one ssl start_tls ... and in my /etc/openldap/slapd.conf I've got (among other things): TLSCipherSuite HIGH:MEDIUM:+SSLv2 TLSCertificateFile /etc/openldap/slapd.pem TLSCertificateKeyFile /etc/openldap/slapd.pem The /etc/openldap/slapd.pem is a certficate that I generated using the tools provided in /usr/share/ssl/certs. Does anyone have any idea what I'm missing? Thanks. -- Jeff Clark mailto:jeff@jeffclark.net "Too soon old, too late smart." http://www.citilink.com/~jclark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Microsoft's success proves "You can fool some of the people, all of the time." From devel_support at crlc.net Fri Jul 19 11:42:25 2002 From: devel_support at crlc.net (Carl Lindgren) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? References: <1026912752.23995.20.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <005801c22f2f$d8abc7a0$1025a8c0@crlc.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Frederick" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Mandrake Experts? > hehe, well I'll only be telneting through secure networks (never through > the internet) so I don't really need the encription from ssh and most > Win machines I have come with a telnet client on them so I wouldn't need > to install a ssh client. And even if I go with ssh, witch is still a > possibility, the ssh port is also blocked. If I could get a good ssh > client for Windows, I would use ssh, but I still have to get rid of the > block on that port. If anyone could recommend a good free ssh client > for Win32 machines, I'd gladly go with ssh. > > Chris Frederick > > On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 15:33, Munir Nassar wrote: > On 16 Jul 2002, Chris Frederick wrote: > > > configure firewalls (right now my telnet port is blocked, I'd like it > > open) > > good god, why in the name of heaven? give me a good reason or i'll sick > lidja on you.... > > -munir > >>If I could get a good ssh client for Windows, I would use ssh, www.ssh.com has a ssh telnet client for windows and is freeware for non commercial use but reasonablly priced at $99.00 per seat if you need PKI,PKCS #11 fuctionality. Carl Lindgren C. R. Lindgren Consulting Minneapolis, MN From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Fri Jul 19 22:41:04 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Webcams Message-ID: <53971.65.30.232.47.1027136075.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Anyone here with knowledge of running a webcam under Linux? Specifically, I'm using a DLink DSB-C100 under Mandrake 8.2, using a package called Motion to detect movement on the webcam. All is well, with the exception of picture quality, the pictures are VERY dark. The same camera gives very good pictures under Windows, and the clarity is the same under Linux, just very dark. The camera has auto-brightness adjustment, and I've also tried turning on the auto-brightness setting in Motion, but no dice. -- o_II_--__--__-----______________ /===================\ /==================\ I___________I__I I I I I I I I I II o o o o o o o II /~o~~O-O-O-O-O~o~~~~o==o~==~o==o~~~o=o=o~~=====~~o=o=o~~~o=o=o~~~~~~~~o=o=o~ --Tracy-McKibben--tracy@mckibben.d2g.com----http://mckibben.d2g.com--------- Currently 77?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 78?F From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Jul 19 23:34:35 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Squid can't find sites, but my dns can? Message-ID: <20020720035733.GB3263@mtu.net> Squid's been doing a fine job caching web traffic for my network, however lately (mostly since I upgraded to 2.4.STABLE6) it's been unable to resolve lots of hostnames. I'll be browsing along just fine and then hit a site that squid doesn't seem to like. Hitting it multiple times or restarting squid don't help. The only way to get to the site is to bypass squid. Does anyone have any ideas on this one? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From jpschewe at mtu.net Sat Jul 20 23:47:04 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tell the difference between a cloned process and a forked process? Message-ID: <20020721034437.GD5443@mtu.net> Seeing as Linux gives each thread a PID, top and ps like to tell me that there are lots of processes out there using lots of memory and it doesn't add up to what's actually being used. Generally I can figure out which processes are forked and thus actual processes and those which are cloned and thus are threads. The difference that I'm interested here is the memory usage. I'd like to be able to just see how much memory the process is using, rather than each thread. Does anyone know of a way of telling the difference besides just known because you wrote the application? I'm thinking of some nifty flags in /proc somewhere. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From davisn at mailandnews.com Sat Jul 20 23:51:37 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NIS and account information Message-ID: <3D3A3505.428A62EF@mailandnews.com> Hey guys, I'm trying to migrate user account information to NIS (ypserv and ypbind). I can create the mappings, and client/server interaction works fine, but I can't find any documentation on how to setup PAM to use NIS for account information. The goal is to add a user to NIS, with their home directory etc., and they can login on any machine in the network. I won't actually be using NIS to store passwords, so I don't need authentication, I just need to make the user "exist" (according to the client machine). Any pointers? Thanks, --Nathan Davis From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jul 21 11:37:02 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tell the difference between a cloned process and a forked process? In-Reply-To: <20020721034437.GD5443@mtu.net>; from jpschewe@mtu.net on Sat, Jul 20, 2002 at 10:44:38PM -0500 References: <20020721034437.GD5443@mtu.net> Message-ID: <20020721113013.A8166@sherohman.org> On Sat, Jul 20, 2002 at 10:44:38PM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote: > Seeing as Linux gives each thread a PID, top and ps like to tell me that there > are lots of processes out there using lots of memory and it doesn't add up to > what's actually being used. Generally I can figure out which processes are > forked and thus actual processes and those which are cloned and thus are > threads. The difference that I'm interested here is the memory usage. I'd > like to be able to just see how much memory the process is using, rather than > each thread. It's not quite that simple... Not only do you have shared libraries to contend with, but forked processes are copy-on-write, so you can have an arbitrary number of completely independent (non-thread) processes which only take up as much memory as a single instance, provided that they never write to any memory. (Well, theoretically. In reality, aside from probably being useless, each process would have its own call stack and set of registers, but that's not much memory compared to the size of most software these days.) -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jul 21 11:43:28 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help Message-ID: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> I've finally taken the plunge and decided to give USB a try. Picked up a digital camera and a USB CompactFlash reader, making sure it was one that registers as a USB mass storage device. Support has been added to the kernel and appears to be working: $ dmesg | grep -i usb usb.c: registered new driver hub usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.275 $ time 10:49:26 Jul 21 2002 usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd800, IRQ 9 usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 hub.c: USB hub found usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd400, IRQ 9 usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2 hub.c: USB hub found usb-uhci.c: v1.275:USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver Initializing USB Mass Storage driver... usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage USB Mass Storage support registered. hub.c: USB new device connect on bus2/2, assigned device number 2 usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 2, frame# 136 usb_control/bulk_msg: timeout scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured USB Mass Storage device found at 2 $ ls /proc/scsi/ aha152x/ scsi sg/ usb-storage-0/ As you can see, I also have a real SCSI controller in the machine, with a CD-R drive (/dev/scd0) attached to it. Anyhow, I haven't been able to access the CF reader. Attempts to mount /dev/sda, /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb, and /dev/sdb1 all give the same result: mount: /dev/ is not a valid block device How should I be referring to the CF reader to mount it? (Or how do I get the kernel to tell me?) -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Sun Jul 21 12:15:21 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020721170203.GA22572@8ball.wox.org> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 11:38:45AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > $ ls /proc/scsi/ > aha152x/ scsi sg/ usb-storage-0/ I'd suggest you cat /proc/scsi/scsi and make sure the reader is listed, for one. I'd also make sure that the drive is listed in usbview (and make sure that usb-storage is listed under the Name: of it's interface) > How should I be referring to the CF reader to mount it? (Or how do I > get the kernel to tell me?) Are you sure the media is partitioned, formatted, and mount is using the right filesystem? -- Brian Hicks 'At Zango Transportation Concepts, our motto is "Caveat Emptor" which means "We hope you like it!"' -- Lambda Expressway -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020721/e0a71001/attachment.pgp From clay at fandre.com Sun Jul 21 12:26:04 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> When you load the usb-storage module you should see which scsi device it is using. Also the card is in msdos format, so try adding the -t msdos to the mount command. sdb: Write Protect is on sdb:<7>usb-storage: queuecommand() called usb-storage: *** thread awakened. usb-storage: Command READ_10 (10 bytes) usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 00 usb-storage: READ_10: read block 0002 (LBA 0000) page 0 pages 8 usb-storage: Read 08 pages, from PBA 0002 (LBA 0000) page 00 usb-storage: Result for send_control in read_data 0 usb-storage: SCM data in transfer 4096 sg buffers 0 usb-storage: Transferred 4096 of 4096 bytes usb-storage: rd: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 usb-storage: rd: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 usb-storage: rd: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 usb-storage: scsi cmd done, result=0x0 usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. sdb1 WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured USB Mass Storage device found at 2 USB Mass Storage support registered. On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Dave Sherohman wrote: > I've finally taken the plunge and decided to give USB a try. Picked > up a digital camera and a USB CompactFlash reader, making sure it was > one that registers as a USB mass storage device. Support has been > added to the kernel and appears to be working: > > $ dmesg | grep -i usb > usb.c: registered new driver hub > usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.275 $ time 10:49:26 Jul 21 2002 > usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled > usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd800, IRQ 9 > usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports > usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 > hub.c: USB hub found > usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd400, IRQ 9 > usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports > usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2 > hub.c: USB hub found > usb-uhci.c: v1.275:USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver > Initializing USB Mass Storage driver... > usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage > USB Mass Storage support registered. > hub.c: USB new device connect on bus2/2, assigned device number 2 > usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 2, frame# 136 > usb_control/bulk_msg: timeout > scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices > WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured > USB Mass Storage device found at 2 From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jul 21 18:03:50 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721170203.GA22572@8ball.wox.org>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 12:02:03PM -0500 References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721170203.GA22572@8ball.wox.org> Message-ID: <20020721144640.C8166@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 12:02:03PM -0500, Brian D. Hicks wrote: > On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 11:38:45AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > $ ls /proc/scsi/ > > aha152x/ scsi sg/ usb-storage-0/ > > I'd suggest you cat /proc/scsi/scsi and make sure the reader is listed, > for one. Nope, it's not. /proc/scsi/scsi only shows the CD-R drive. > I'd also make sure that the drive is listed in usbview (and make sure > that usb-storage is listed under the Name: of it's interface) usbview complains that it can't open /proc/bus/usb/devices and says to make sure the kernel has USB support (the dmesg output I sent earlier seems to confirm that) and the usbdevfs filesystem is mounted. Which it isn't. So, referring to linux-usb.org: # mount -t usbdevfs none /proc/bus/usb mount: mount point /proc/bus/usb does not exist # mkdir /proc/bus/usb mkdir: cannot create directory `/proc/bus/usb': No such file or directory (Not that I'm surprised to see mkdir fail under /proc...) OTOH, according to /usr/src/linux/.config: # CONFIG_USB_DEVICEFS is not set As for what _is_ set: CONFIG_USB=y CONFIG_USB_UHCI=y CONFIG_USB_STORAGE=y I suppose I'll turn on the "Preliminary USB device filesystem" and see what that buys me... > Are you sure the media is partitioned, formatted, and mount is using the > right filesystem? I formatted it (presumably as vfat) with the camera. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From esper at sherohman.org Sun Jul 21 18:04:34 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 12:19:56PM -0500 References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 12:19:56PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > When you load the usb-storage module you should see which scsi device > it is using. Module? Module? I'm a macrokernel fan. Modules are rarely seen on my systems unless that's the only way something is available. I suppose I can shuffle it, though... > sdb: Write Protect is on > sdb:<7>usb-storage: queuecommand() called > usb-storage: *** thread awakened. ... Nope, didn't get anything like that on boot, just "USB Mass Storage device found at 2". -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From skodak at cs.umn.edu Mon Jul 22 13:59:02 2002 From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reducing the foot print of Linux Message-ID: Hi, I want to install linux and gcc on 144 MB disk on chip. Is there any documentation/link which explains how to reduce the foot print of linux? I want to install RH6.2. Thanks Sreekumar From rahrenstorff at yahoo.com Mon Jul 22 14:08:14 2002 From: rahrenstorff at yahoo.com (Rodd Ahrenstorff) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? Message-ID: <200207220949.31213.rahrenstorff@yahoo.com> I am going to try Debian for the first time :) But every ftp site I have found doesn't list woody. What URL can I use to download the ISO for Woody? Thanks... From dante at plethora.net Mon Jul 22 14:20:54 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reducing the foot print of Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > I want to install linux and gcc on 144 MB disk on chip. Is there any > documentation/link which explains how to reduce the foot print of linux? I > want to install RH6.2. > Thanks > Sreekumar > You _can_ do it with RH, but I've had better luck with Slackware on small systems. I also generally don't put gcc on DoC systems, as I like to keep my write-cycles down. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From drue at cs.und.edu Mon Jul 22 14:24:29 2002 From: drue at cs.und.edu (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reducing the foot print of Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why red hat? I think that it would be better to install something current that can install in less than 144MB, instead of installing an old version of RH. Of course if you need red hat for some specific purpose, or if security is not an issue, it could be alright. I would check out debian, but perhaps i'm biased :) Dan Rue UND Computer Science On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > I want to install linux and gcc on 144 MB disk on chip. Is there any > documentation/link which explains how to reduce the foot print of linux? I > want to install RH6.2. > Thanks > Sreekumar > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drue at cs.und.edu Mon Jul 22 14:35:02 2002 From: drue at cs.und.edu (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? In-Reply-To: <200207220949.31213.rahrenstorff@yahoo.com> Message-ID: The prefered way to install deb is with a net install. you can get the floppies (4 or 5) from ftp.debian.org, and then use them to get started. Then all of your packages will be downloaded during the install. They make potato iso's available, but it is tough to find a woody iso. I just checked www.linuxiso.org and it looks like they've just got potato. There are instructions to create your own iso, but that is rather tricky I think. I have seen them, but they are tough to come by. -Dan Rue UND Computer Science On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote: > I am going to try Debian for the first time :) But every ftp site I have > found doesn't list woody. What URL can I use to download the ISO for Woody? > > Thanks... > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Jul 22 14:51:03 2002 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik V. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? In-Reply-To: <200207220949.31213.rahrenstorff@yahoo.com> References: <200207220949.31213.rahrenstorff@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1027369438.3d3c69de0bc45@webmail.andersonfam.org> The isos for Debian 3.0rc0 aren't available directly for download yet. You can, however to to http://www.debian.org/CD/. There are instructions there on a tool called jigdo. I've been using it for the past few months and it's pretty cool. You run it and it downloads the components of the iso image individually, does checksums, and assembles them all into the official cd image. -Erik Quoting Rodd Ahrenstorff : > I am going to try Debian for the first time :) But every ftp site I have > found doesn't list woody. What URL can I use to download the ISO for > Woody? > > Thanks... > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik Anderson - erik@andersonfam.org From list at slushpupie.com Mon Jul 22 15:00:15 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reducing the foot print of Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200207221542.03933.list@slushpupie.com> On Monday 22 July 2002 2:39 pm, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > Hi, > I want to install linux and gcc on 144 MB disk on chip. Is there any > documentation/link which explains how to reduce the foot print of linux? I > want to install RH6.2. > Thanks > Sreekumar Any particular reason for RedHat 6.2? There are a number of smaller distros out there for embeded/minimal systems. I use Toms Root Boot kit for a lot of linux in a small space. But there are many other things out there. Jay From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Jul 22 15:00:39 2002 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? In-Reply-To: References: <200207220949.31213.rahrenstorff@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020722154059.A19069@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 03:12:03PM -0500, Dan Rue wrote: > The prefered way to install deb is with a net install. you can get the > floppies (4 or 5) from ftp.debian.org, and then use them to get started. > Then all of your packages will be downloaded during the install. Take a look at http://www.debianplanet.org/index.php?or=8 . If you have decent bandwidth on the machine that you want to install on, use the Netinstall CD. If not, either go through the hassle to make jigdo CDs, or wait untill offical CD images propagate to the usual places. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org From natecars at real-time.com Mon Jul 22 15:19:46 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Reducing the foot print of Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Sreekumar Kodakara wrote: > I want to install linux and gcc on 144 MB disk on chip. Is there any > documentation/link which explains how to reduce the foot print of > linux? I want to install RH6.2. Thanks Sreekumar Check out peeweelinux. It lets you grab whatever you want from RH, and install it. Even lets you specify specific files within packages. On a side note, why GCC on DOC? Wouldn't it be better to do all your development on a desktop box, and then transfer the binaries down? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From rclark at lakesplus.com Mon Jul 22 15:37:27 2002 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rsh, ping and Beowulf Issues Message-ID: <009a01c231c1$9eae2fe0$0201a8c0@office> I am setting up a small Beowulf cluster. I can run a number of the benchmarks indicating that it works: data is passed machine to machine, each machine will make calculations, all of the LAM examples work. There are two problems that keep coming up and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. - at times there are delays in the network because a ping can take up to 1 sec to go to any one or all of the machines. The machines are all on 10/100 NICs with a 100 MB Hub. If the machines are carefully rebooted (meaning rebooting one at a time until it is all the way back up again) this problem will seemingly go away. So .. any time there is the ping delay, the rsh delays everything - which causes the cluster many problems. Any thoughts on rsh parameters that I should change or set differently? OR is there something running on the system that can cause these ping or rsh delays? - We have installed LAM and MPI related software. All of the LAM examples will start, run, and complete successfully. Many of the MPI examples will come back and tell me that the process did not close or finalize on some of the nodes properly. I apparently have some setup problem ... but as you can tell - I have no idea what. Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have posted in comp.parallel and comp.parallel.mpi on a couple occasions with no luck. All of these issues occur on a RH 7.2 installation - all systems (5) Thanks in advance! Randy From phil at rephil.org Mon Jul 22 16:12:46 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? In-Reply-To: <200207222037.g6MKbGM16692@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200207222037.g6MKbGM16692@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020722215121.GD10012@rephil.org> On Mon, 22-Jul-2002 at 03:37:16PM -0500, tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org wrote: > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:23:58 -0500 > From: "Erik V. Anderson" > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? > Reply-To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > The isos for Debian 3.0rc0 aren't available directly for download > yet. You can, however to to http://www.debian.org/CD/. There are > instructions there on a tool called jigdo. I've been using it for > the past few months and it's pretty cool. You run it and it > downloads the components of the iso image individually, does > checksums, and assembles them all into the official cd image. I didn't know about jigdo. Woody was released as stable Friday (probably already widely known here.) This release has been a difficult birth! -- www.rephil.org / University of Minnesota "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable" -- Anoymous From jeffr at odeon.net Mon Jul 22 17:32:30 2002 From: jeffr at odeon.net (jeffr@odeon.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rsh, ping and Beowulf Issues In-Reply-To: <009a01c231c1$9eae2fe0$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: As I haven't played with a Beowulf cluster, this is just a shot in the dark... Are you seeing lots of collisions on your 100 Mb hub when the latency starts getting really bad? If so, you may want to look into getting an ethernet switch instead of using the hub. If this is just a little test environment, go get a little 5-port (about $30) or an 8-port (about $40) 10/100 switch from General Nanosystems. If this is a production environment, you may want to look for a more robust managed ethernet switch. Jeff On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > I am setting up a small Beowulf cluster. I can run a number of the > benchmarks indicating that it works: data is passed machine to machine, each > machine will make calculations, all of the LAM examples work. > > There are two problems that keep coming up and any suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. > > - at times there are delays in the network because a ping can take up to 1 > sec to go to any one or all of the machines. The machines are all on 10/100 > NICs with a 100 MB Hub. If the machines are carefully rebooted (meaning > rebooting one at a time until it is all the way back up again) this problem > will seemingly go away. So .. any time there is the ping delay, the rsh > delays everything - which causes the cluster many problems. Any thoughts on > rsh parameters that I should change or set differently? OR is there > something running on the system that can cause these ping or rsh delays? > > - We have installed LAM and MPI related software. All of the LAM examples > will start, run, and complete successfully. Many of the MPI examples will > come back and tell me that the process did not close or finalize on some of > the nodes properly. I apparently have some setup problem ... but as you can > tell - I have no idea what. > > Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I have > posted in comp.parallel and comp.parallel.mpi on a couple occasions with no > luck. > > All of these issues occur on a RH 7.2 installation - all systems (5) > > Thanks in advance! > > Randy > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From ccox at linuxsnob.com Mon Jul 22 17:54:01 2002 From: ccox at linuxsnob.com (ccox@linuxsnob.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rsh, ping and Beowulf Issues In-Reply-To: <009a01c231c1$9eae2fe0$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Randy Clarksean wrote: > There are two problems that keep coming up and any suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. > > - at times there are delays in the network because a ping can take up to 1 > sec to go to any one or all of the machines. The machines are all on 10/100 > NICs with a 100 MB Hub. If the machines are carefully rebooted (meaning > rebooting one at a time until it is all the way back up again) this problem > will seemingly go away. So .. any time there is the ping delay, the rsh > delays everything - which causes the cluster many problems. Any thoughts on > rsh parameters that I should change or set differently? OR is there > something running on the system that can cause these ping or rsh delays? > I've not had any experience with beowulf, but you might try to see if you can reduce this to the lowest common denomenator. ie - have you tried rebooting the hub instead of the systems? if this is a hub, then you've got the everything in half-duplex, so there's a (however remote) possibility that a collision is screwing something up. another thought - can you bring up just 2 systems, with network running, and none of the cluster software, and beat the snot out of the tcpip connections between 2 systems and re-create the issue? ftp a large file back & forth between a system & dev/null on the other side, if possible, set it up in a while loop and come back tomorrow, something on that order? another long-shot, instead of letting the nic card driver auto-negotiate, force it to 100-half for a hub or 100-full for a switch. (yes, I've seen "auto" not work correctly in some environments) Is there any other connectivity into the hub? can it be removed? I've seen similar issues in AIX RS6000 clusters, that issue ultimatly was a memory leak in the nic card driver. are you using the latest driver code (or most stable) for the NIC? as I said above, I'm no beowulf expert, but this issue has to be in one of a few places - the network itself(bad card/hub), the card driver, tcpip, or the cluster software. I'd find it unlikely this was due to rsh or ping, they both rely on tcpip and everything below it. the cluster software could be to blame, so try & get that out of the equation. -- LINUX, because rebooting is for adding hardware! www.linuxsnob.com <-- a little linux humor, and a very little support. From ccox at linuxsnob.com Mon Jul 22 18:54:40 2002 From: ccox at linuxsnob.com (ccox@linuxsnob.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Webcams In-Reply-To: <53971.65.30.232.47.1027136075.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Message-ID: I've played with a webcam a little, but not the same as yours. IIRC, there's driver settings for some webcams that you can set at driver load, to adjust the brightness/contrast/etc. I'm guessing that will disable the "auto-brightness" but it's worth a shot. On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Tracy McKibben wrote: > Anyone here with knowledge of running a webcam under Linux? Specifically, > I'm using a DLink DSB-C100 under Mandrake 8.2, using a package called > Motion to detect movement on the webcam. All is well, with the exception > of picture quality, the pictures are VERY dark. The same camera gives > very good pictures under Windows, and the clarity is the same under Linux, > just very dark. The camera has auto-brightness adjustment, and I've also > tried turning on the auto-brightness setting in Motion, but no dice. -- LINUX, because rebooting is for adding hardware! www.linuxsnob.com <-- a little linux humor, and a very little support. From esper at sherohman.org Mon Jul 22 18:56:08 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 02:50:20PM -0500 References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> (Oh, great... I'm replying to myself...) On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 02:50:20PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 12:19:56PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > > sdb: Write Protect is on > > sdb:<7>usb-storage: queuecommand() called > > usb-storage: *** thread awakened. > ... > > Nope, didn't get anything like that on boot, just "USB Mass Storage > device found at 2". Just noticed in my logs: modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module block-major-8 block-major-8 is "SCSI disk devices", but .config says CONFIG_SCSI=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=y CONFIG_SD_EXTRA_DEVS=40 CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR=y CONFIG_SR_EXTRA_DEVS=2 CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG=y CONFIG_SCSI_DEBUG_QUEUES=y CONFIG_SCSI_MULTI_LUN=y CONFIG_SCSI_CONSTANTS=y What else should block-major-8 require? -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jul 22 19:23:57 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020723011232.GB6262@8ball.wox.org> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 03:02:00PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Just noticed in my logs: > > modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module block-major-8 > > block-major-8 is "SCSI disk devices", but .config says > > CONFIG_SCSI=y > CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=y > CONFIG_SD_EXTRA_DEVS=40 > CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR=y > CONFIG_SR_EXTRA_DEVS=2 > CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG=y > CONFIG_SCSI_DEBUG_QUEUES=y > CONFIG_SCSI_MULTI_LUN=y > CONFIG_SCSI_CONSTANTS=y > > What else should block-major-8 require? Well, the main thing module block-major-8 would require is to be a module. If you wanted to check exactly which one you could grep block-major-8 from /etc/modules.conf, and you can see what it's aliased to. -- Brian Hicks 'At Zango Transportation Concepts, our motto is "Caveat Emptor" which means "We hope you like it!"' -- Lambda Expressway -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020722/79d5e68d/attachment.pgp From myok. at ogzr.org Tue Jul 23 00:10:06 2002 From: myok. at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Thanks for hosting the Installfest this Saturday Message-ID: <1026692481.10158.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Not sure who I should be thanking, but thanks to the coordinators and the people who owned the space for this last Installfest! I was only able to stay a couple hours, but from the look of things, everyone was able to find space, power and network connectivity, and the Internet connection was working well. I had a great time, and was able to help a couple people get GRUB configured properly. -- Carl Patten From Kevin_a_Layne at CRCMN.COM Tue Jul 23 00:10:47 2002 From: Kevin_a_Layne at CRCMN.COM (Kevin_a_Layne@CRCMN.COM) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] install fest thanks! Message-ID: <86256BF7.00663F27.00@CRCWEB.CRCMN.COM> Thanks to tclug for their install fest on saturday. I managed to get rh loaded and working on my laptop. I did have a bit of trouble with x and researched the monitor specs when I got home. The problem turned out to be the lack of a mouse. I plugged a junk mouse in, ran mouseconfig and up came x just fine! The mouse does not work however, (its junk after all) but the little joystick dealey on the ibm laptop works just fine. Thanks all Kevin Layne From Kevin_a_Layne at CRCMN.COM Tue Jul 23 00:11:11 2002 From: Kevin_a_Layne at CRCMN.COM (Kevin_a_Layne@CRCMN.COM) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Schools for Linux? Message-ID: <86256BFA.000FBA32.00@CRCWEB.CRCMN.COM> I just embarked in some linux/unix online training. http://www.useractive.com/oreilly/ I got on a deal for half price that ended a few days ago but even at their regular prices it is very competative to the tech/college route. So far I'm learning alot, fast. I'll be putting a linux box into production in an as/400 shop in about four weeks and finaly have a compelling reason to do something I've wanted to do for years. I'm contracting for the installation and setup of the OS and application so it will be going when I get it. Six years ago I was a bindery operator and am now full time manager, administrator, wire puller one-man-show in a shop with 2 as/400s one running a domino mail/web server , 25 win pc users and can tell you there is no glammer in the geek world but some of this stuff is so way cool! kevin From malikbush at attbi.com Tue Jul 23 00:11:35 2002 From: malikbush at attbi.com (Malik Bush) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] InstallFest Message-ID: <3D378ADC.2D61ED8E@attbi.com> To All: I am a relative Linux newbie and I came to my first installfest last week. IT WAS GREAT. I just want to thank all those who helped me and all the others that participated and organized this into one of the greatest geek experiences that I have ever had. YOU ALL ROCK! I understood from a couple of members that there would be more of these great events if we only had a place that was easily available with all the things that are necessary to make the day work. I have a place. I am the Director of Computing programs at Dunwoody College of Technology and I have sought and received permission to have the event at the College on the weekends _when ever we wish_. So we now have a place that we can use on a regular basis to have InstallFests. I guess I need to know what needs to happen next to set some dates up for the near future. So, could someone who can help me organize this, please contact me directly to get this ball rolling? Malik Bush mbush@dunwoody.edu From ealvarenga at cableonda.net Tue Jul 23 00:12:38 2002 From: ealvarenga at cableonda.net (Edson Alvarenga J.) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] configure mail server Message-ID: Hi, i want know how configure an mail server (sendmail) on linux, and that version of sendmail use? From drake at lemongecko.org Tue Jul 23 00:48:33 2002 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? Message-ID: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> I thought this was no longer a problem as of the 2.4 kernels, but: I'm having problems creating a file larger than 2 gigabytes (2^31 bytes). I'm doing this on a Reiser partition. I'm running Debian unstable with kernel 2.4.19-rc1. First I was backing things up, and tar choked when the tarball hit 2GB. Thinking that perhaps it was a tar problem, I took a file that's over a gigabyte (call it "fred"), copied it a file called "huge", then tried this: cat fred >> huge ...which would create a >2GB file, and hoped that would somehow get around the problem, but it didn't. :( The reiser website says that it'll handle files that are something like 17.6TB. Is this a problem with tar or cat or something? Thanks, Dan -- if the U of M made .sigs: "This .sig under construction, expected completion date: March 2002." From nate at refried.org Tue Jul 23 08:28:01 2002 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? In-Reply-To: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> References: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020723125051.GA1316@refried.org> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 10:26:50PM -0400, Dan Drake wrote: > I thought this was no longer a problem as of the 2.4 kernels, but: I'm > having problems creating a file larger than 2 gigabytes (2^31 bytes). First thing to check is if resource limits are getting in your way. You can usually tell if this is happening if your process gets kills by a signal. If you're running tcsh: limit if you're running bash: ulimit -a Nate From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jul 23 08:37:08 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help - SOLVED In-Reply-To: <20020723084939.B20673@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 08:49:39AM -0500 References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> <20020723084939.B20673@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020723091648.C20673@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 08:49:39AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > Short version: I've rearranged the kernel with all the USB stuff as > modules and added usbdevfs to the mix. Still doesn't work and I'm > strongly suspecting that the problem is with the USB-to-SCSI emulation > for mass storage devices, not with USB itself. Turns out I've got an imperfect CF reader. I ran across a device compatibility list which said that I needed to add a line to unusual_devs.h for it. Added that, rebuilt the module, and it appears to work perfectly. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 09:16:57 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? In-Reply-To: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Dan Drake wrote: > I thought this was no longer a problem as of the 2.4 kernels, but: I'm > having problems creating a file larger than 2 gigabytes (2^31 bytes). > > I'm doing this on a Reiser partition. I'm running Debian unstable with > kernel 2.4.19-rc1. > > First I was backing things up, and tar choked when the tarball hit > 2GB. Thinking that perhaps it was a tar problem, I took a file that's > over a gigabyte (call it "fred"), copied it a file called "huge", then > tried this: > > cat fred >> huge > > ...which would create a >2GB file, and hoped that would somehow get > around the problem, but it didn't. :( > > The reiser website says that it'll handle files that are something > like 17.6TB. Is this a problem with tar or cat or something? What version of glibc? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From wilson at visi.com Tue Jul 23 09:18:00 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source Message-ID: <20020723150521.GA19431@isis.visi.com> Hi everyone, I'm beginning work on project for one of my classes at the U. and I hope to publish the results in one of the educational technology journals. My goal is to write a piece advocating for open standards, protocols, and open source as a hedge against schools being trapped by their reliance on the non-open versions. Case in point: my district is looking at spending $50-75k over the next year or so up upgrade all the MS Office licenses we have. My initial searches of the educational literature indicate that very little has been written on this topic. My article is going to be directed toward non-Geek educational leaders who are concerned about the costs, security, etc. of their current technology systems. Does anyone have an interesting article, book, etc. that you think would be relevant here? There are some classics obviously (e.g., Cathedral and the Bazaar), but I'm looking for other less well known ones. I promise to remember all of you when I'm a big shot professor doling out wisdom from my ivory tower. :-) -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From rclark at lakesplus.com Tue Jul 23 10:24:29 2002 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source References: <20020723150521.GA19431@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <008501c23263$20a01b70$0201a8c0@office> I recall that there is a school out east that made a conscious decision to go towards the use of Linux. Maybe this is one of the classic examples you mention - if so ... my apologies for mentioning it in the group. I did a quick search on the web .. but did not find it immediately. I suggest you contact them to see if they would be willing to comment on their situation. The other portion of the equation is the ability to hire qualified people to run and maintain systems. School Districts typically pay below market value for their tech support people because they are on a fixed budget. At present, it is much easier to hire someone for the Windows environment than it is for existing open source environments (Linux). I think that in the long run, it is a good way to go for schools ... lower cost, etc. I would be very interested in your paper when you finish it up. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Wilson" To: "TCLUG" Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:05 AM Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source > Hi everyone, > > I'm beginning work on project for one of my classes at the U. and I hope > to publish the results in one of the educational technology journals. > My goal is to write a piece advocating for open standards, protocols, > and open source as a hedge against schools being trapped by their > reliance on the non-open versions. Case in point: my district is looking > at spending $50-75k over the next year or so up upgrade all the MS > Office licenses we have. > > My initial searches of the educational literature indicate that very > little has been written on this topic. My article is going to be > directed toward non-Geek educational leaders who are concerned about the > costs, security, etc. of their current technology systems. > > Does anyone have an interesting article, book, etc. that you think would > be relevant here? There are some classics obviously (e.g., Cathedral and > the Bazaar), but I'm looking for other less well known ones. I promise > to remember all of you when I'm a big shot professor doling out wisdom > from my ivory tower. :-) > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From drue at cs.und.edu Tue Jul 23 10:43:50 2002 From: drue at cs.und.edu (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source In-Reply-To: <008501c23263$20a01b70$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: You can start going to open source a little at a time, without hiring a new IT staff. For instance, you can save that 50-75K by running open office on existing windows systems. Open source software is nice enough now to start running certain applications, without diving in head first. dan On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Randy Clarksean wrote: > I recall that there is a school out east that made a conscious decision to > go towards the use of Linux. Maybe this is one of the classic examples you > mention - if so ... my apologies for mentioning it in the group. I did a > quick search on the web .. but did not find it immediately. I suggest you > contact them to see if they would be willing to comment on their situation. > > The other portion of the equation is the ability to hire qualified people to > run and maintain systems. School Districts typically pay below market value > for their tech support people because they are on a fixed budget. At > present, it is much easier to hire someone for the Windows environment than > it is for existing open source environments (Linux). > > I think that in the long run, it is a good way to go for schools ... lower > cost, etc. I would be very interested in your paper when you finish it up. > > Randy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Wilson" > To: "TCLUG" > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:05 AM > Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'm beginning work on project for one of my classes at the U. and I hope > > to publish the results in one of the educational technology journals. > > My goal is to write a piece advocating for open standards, protocols, > > and open source as a hedge against schools being trapped by their > > reliance on the non-open versions. Case in point: my district is looking > > at spending $50-75k over the next year or so up upgrade all the MS > > Office licenses we have. > > > > My initial searches of the educational literature indicate that very > > little has been written on this topic. My article is going to be > > directed toward non-Geek educational leaders who are concerned about the > > costs, security, etc. of their current technology systems. > > > > Does anyone have an interesting article, book, etc. that you think would > > be relevant here? There are some classics obviously (e.g., Cathedral and > > the Bazaar), but I'm looking for other less well known ones. I promise > > to remember all of you when I'm a big shot professor doling out wisdom > > from my ivory tower. :-) > > > > -Tim > > > > -- > > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From sraun at fireopal.org Tue Jul 23 11:30:02 2002 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source In-Reply-To: <20020723150521.GA19431@isis.visi.com> References: <20020723150521.GA19431@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <20020723170942.GA2008@fireopal.org> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 10:05:21AM -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > Does anyone have an interesting article, book, etc. that you think would > be relevant here? There are some classics obviously (e.g., Cathedral and > the Bazaar), but I'm looking for other less well known ones. I promise > to remember all of you when I'm a big shot professor doling out wisdom > from my ivory tower. :-) http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html In which Dr. Edgar David Villanueva Nunez, Congressman of the Republica of Peru, writes a letter of rebuttal to Juan Alberto Gonzalez, General Manager of Microsoft, Peru, on the topic of why the government of Peru should or should not pass a law requiring all governmental software to be non-proprietary. It's quite amusing. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From drake at lemongecko.org Tue Jul 23 11:30:48 2002 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 09:55:07AM -0500 References: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020723120906.A16436@lemongecko.org> On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 at 09:55AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Dan Drake wrote: > > I thought this was no longer a problem as of the 2.4 kernels, but: I'm > > having problems creating a file larger than 2 gigabytes (2^31 bytes). > > What version of glibc? It's whatever Debian unstable is currently using: $ dpkg -l | grep libc ii libc6 2.2.5-12 GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone ii libc6-dev 2.2.5-12 GNU C Library: Development Libraries and Hea ... Dan -- if the U of M made .sigs: "This .sig under construction, expected completion date: March 2002." From drake at lemongecko.org Tue Jul 23 11:42:07 2002 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source In-Reply-To: <20020723150521.GA19431@isis.visi.com>; from wilson@visi.com on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 10:05:21AM -0500 References: <20020723150521.GA19431@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <20020723121824.B16436@lemongecko.org> On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 at 10:05AM -0500, Tim Wilson wrote: > Does anyone have an interesting article, book, etc. that you think would > be relevant here? Well, it's not a public high school, but the math department at the U is very nearly 100% Linux. This saves them so much money that they can afford to pay us math grad students exorbitant salaries, ha ha. You might want to ask them: http://www.math.umn.edu/arb/sys_phones.shtml . Dan -- if the U of M made .sigs: "This .sig under construction, expected completion date: March 2002." From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 13:39:12 2002 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] configure mail server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15677.44183.446176.470188@tsathoggua.mydomain> Edson Alvarenga J. writes: > Hi, i want know how configure an mail server (sendmail) on > linux, and that version of sendmail use? You should probably give us some more details about what you're trying to do. There's a bunch of stuff on the sendmail site but, IMHO, it assumes a lot of knowledge. For simple stuff there's HOWTOs. Mandrake and maybe some other distros now use postfix, which is somewhat simpler, at least in having a slightly less opaque configuration language. There are some qmail fans on this list. I looked at it and found that (1) the docs seemed to assume you were migrating from sendmail and already understood that [doesn't anyone get tired of explaining their mailers' functions in terms of what sendmail does?] and (2) it wants to splatter all kindsa files in all kindsa non-standard places. YMMV. Unless you're doing something real exciting, you PROBABLY don't want sendmail.... r From wilson at visi.com Tue Jul 23 13:52:02 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] open protocols and open source In-Reply-To: References: <008501c23263$20a01b70$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <20020723193259.GA5630@isis.visi.com> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 11:28:08AM -0500, Dan Rue wrote: > You can start going to open source a little at a time, without hiring a > new IT staff. For instance, you can save that 50-75K by running open > office on existing windows systems. Open source software is nice enough > now to start running certain applications, without diving in head first. Our main tech guy has been investigating open office a bit. Star Office is free for schools, so I suspect we'd go that direction. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From erik at andersonfam.org Tue Jul 23 15:10:04 2002 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik V. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian jigdo question Message-ID: <1027456352.3d3dbd6006e36@webmail.andersonfam.org> Has anyone had success running jigdo through a SOCKS proxy? I tried setting the environment variables that the README recommends for it to use a proxy server, but no dice. Any ideas? Thanks! -Erik -- Erik Anderson - erik@andersonfam.org From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 16:14:37 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? Message-ID: <20020723165813.S6760@real-time.com> I thought all Qworst DSL lines have ANI (Caller-ID) on them. I got an ANI phone and on my ISDN linux coming calls show caller-id, but when I plug it into my DSL line I do not caller-id. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 16:33:10 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? In-Reply-To: <20020723165813.S6760@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > I thought all Qworst DSL lines have ANI (Caller-ID) on them. I got an > ANI phone and on my ISDN linux coming calls show caller-id, but when I > plug it into my DSL line I do not caller-id. Nah, DSL makes no difference for that.. DSL _just_ adds data to the line, it's totally separate from analog. If you want caller id, you gotta pay the monthly fee.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 19:10:44 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 05:17:32PM -0500 References: <20020723165813.S6760@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020723195316.E2808@real-time.com> Quoting Nate Carlson (natecars@real-time.com): > On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > > I thought all Qworst DSL lines have ANI (Caller-ID) on them. I got an > > ANI phone and on my ISDN linux coming calls show caller-id, but when I > > plug it into my DSL line I do not caller-id. > > Nah, DSL makes no difference for that.. DSL _just_ adds data to the line, > it's totally separate from analog. If you want caller id, you gotta pay > the monthly fee.. > lame, $6.95/month + 6.00 install -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 23 19:29:42 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More fun list stuff. Message-ID: <20020723201042.U1270@techmonkeys.org> Hi. I mapped out the post/reply relationships between people on the list in this wonderful map: http://www.poptix.net/mail-thismonth.png A not-so-large, and zoomed out view (for the 'big picture') is here. http://www.poptix.net/mail-thismonth2.png An overall picture for this year is here: http://www.poptix.net/mail.png (warning, large.) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jul 23 19:50:44 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020723011232.GB6262@8ball.wox.org>; from hick0142@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 08:12:32PM -0500 References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> <20020723011232.GB6262@8ball.wox.org> Message-ID: <20020723081940.A20673@sherohman.org> On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 08:12:32PM -0500, Brian D. Hicks wrote: > On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 03:02:00PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > > modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module block-major-8 > > > > block-major-8 is "SCSI disk devices", but .config says > > > > CONFIG_SCSI=y > > CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=y > > What else should block-major-8 require? > > Well, the main thing module block-major-8 would require is to be a > module. Obvious next question: If block-major-8 is SCSI disks (easily confirmed with a simple `ls -l /dev/sda`) and SCSI disk support is built into the kernel, why is it looking for a module in the first place? > If you wanted to check exactly which one you could grep block-major-8 > from /etc/modules.conf, and you can see what it's aliased to. `grep -r block-major *` in /etc turns up some architecture-specific aliases for block-major-2 and block-major-28 under m68k and powerpc, but no mention of block-major-8. (And if you say that this is why SCSI disk support doesn't work, my next question will be, "Then why does IDE disk support work without an alias for block-major-3?") -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 19:51:15 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] configure mail server In-Reply-To: ; from ealvarenga@cableonda.net on Sat, Jul 20, 2002 at 07:54:01PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020723082519.D2808@real-time.com> Quoting Edson Alvarenga J. (ealvarenga@cableonda.net): > Hi, i want know how configure an mail server (sendmail) on > linux, and that version of sendmail use? All linux distributions come with or allow you to download sendmail. Which distribution do you want to use? That will allow us to help you more. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From esper at sherohman.org Tue Jul 23 20:12:02 2002 From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help - update (long) In-Reply-To: <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org>; from esper@sherohman.org on Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 03:02:00PM -0500 References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020723084939.B20673@sherohman.org> Short version: I've rearranged the kernel with all the USB stuff as modules and added usbdevfs to the mix. Still doesn't work and I'm strongly suspecting that the problem is with the USB-to-SCSI emulation for mass storage devices, not with USB itself. Long version (system responses to insmod are from syslog): --- # insmod usbcore kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs kernel: usb.c: registered new driver hub # insmod usb-uhci kernel: usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.275 $ time 15:12:14 Jul 21 2002 kernel: usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled kernel: PCI: Found IRQ 9 for device 00:04.3 kernel: PCI: Sharing IRQ 9 with 00:04.2 kernel: usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd800, IRQ 9 kernel: usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports kernel: usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1 kernel: hub.c: USB hub found kernel: hub.c: 2 ports detected kernel: PCI: Found IRQ 9 for device 00:04.2 kernel: PCI: Sharing IRQ 9 with 00:04.3 kernel: usb-uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd400, IRQ 9 kernel: usb-uhci.c: Detected 2 ports kernel: usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2 kernel: hub.c: USB hub found kernel: hub.c: 2 ports detected kernel: usb-uhci.c: v1.275:USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver kernel: hub.c: USB new device connect on bus2/2, assigned device number 2 kernel: usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0x5e3/0x700) is not claimed by any active driver. # insmod usb-storage tcplogd: port 9000 connection attempt from pchan.sherohman.org [208.38.79.207] kernel: Initializing USB Mass Storage driver... kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage kernel: usb-storage: act_altsettting is 0 kernel: usb-storage: id_index calculated to be: 59 kernel: usb-storage: Array length appears to be: 61 kernel: usb-storage: USB Mass Storage device detected kernel: usb-storage: Endpoints: In: 0xc2e26bc0 Out: 0xc2e26bd4 Int: 0x00000000 (Period 0) kernel: usb-storage: New GUID 05e307000000000000000000 kernel: usb-uhci.c: interrupt, status 2, frame# 1684 kernel: usb-storage: GetMaxLUN command result is 0, data is 206 kernel: usb-storage: Transport: Bulk kernel: usb-storage: Protocol: Transparent SCSI kernel: usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. kernel: scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices kernel: usb-storage: queuecommand() called kernel: usb-storage: *** thread awakened. kernel: usb-storage: Command INQUIRY (6 bytes) kernel: usb-storage: 12 00 00 00 ff 00 00 00 65 89 19 c0 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk command S 0x43425355 T 0xa Trg 0 LUN 0 L 255 F 128 CL 6 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk command transfer result=0 kernel: usb-storage: usb_stor_transfer_partial(): xfer 255 bytes kernel: usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_msg() returned -84 xferred 0/255 kernel: usb-storage: usb_stor_transfer_partial(): unknown error kernel: usb-storage: Bulk data transfer result 0x2 kernel: usb-storage: Attempting to get CSW... kernel: usb-storage: Bulk status result = -84 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk reset requested kernel: usb-storage: Bulk soft reset failed -110 kernel: usb-storage: -- transport indicates transport failure kernel: usb-storage: Fixing INQUIRY data to show SCSI rev 2 kernel: usb-storage: scsi cmd done, result=0x70000 kernel: usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. kernel: usb-storage: queuecommand() called kernel: usb-storage: *** thread awakened. kernel: usb-storage: Command INQUIRY (6 bytes) kernel: usb-storage: 12 00 00 00 ff 00 00 00 65 89 19 c0 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk command S 0x43425355 T 0xb Trg 0 LUN 0 L 255 F 128 CL 6 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk command transfer result=-110 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk reset requested kernel: usb-storage: Bulk soft reset failed -110 kernel: usb-storage: -- transport indicates transport failure kernel: usb-storage: Fixing INQUIRY data to show SCSI rev 2 kernel: usb-storage: scsi cmd done, result=0x70000 kernel: usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. kernel: usb-storage: queuecommand() called kernel: usb-storage: *** thread awakened. kernel: usb-storage: Command INQUIRY (6 bytes) kernel: usb-storage: 12 00 00 00 ff 00 00 00 65 89 19 c0 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk command S 0x43425355 T 0xc Trg 0 LUN 0 L 255 F 128 CL 6 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk command transfer result=-110 kernel: usb-storage: Bulk reset requested kernel: usb-storage: Bulk soft reset failed -110 kernel: usb-storage: -- transport indicates transport failure kernel: usb-storage: Fixing INQUIRY data to show SCSI rev 2 kernel: usb-storage: scsi cmd done, result=0x70000 kernel: usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. kernel: usb-storage: queuecommand() called kernel: usb-storage: *** thread awakened. kernel: usb-storage: Bad target number (1/0) kernel: usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. kernel: WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured kernel: USB Mass Storage device found at 2 kernel: USB Mass Storage support registered. --- Now that usbdevfs is in place, usbview shows two USB UHCI Root Hub devices, one with a usb-storage device attached. The details on the usb-storage are: --- usb-storage Speed: 12Mb/s (full) USB Version: 1.10 Device Class: 00(>ifc ) Device Subclass: 00 Device Protocol: 00 Maximum Default Endpoint Size: 8 Number of Configurations: 1 Vendor Id: 05e3 Product Id: 0700 Revision Number: 1.13 Config Number: 1 Number of Interfaces: 1 Attributes: 80 MaxPower Needed: 96mA Interface Number: 0 Name: usb-storage Alternate Number: 0 Class: 08(stor.) Sub Class: 6 Protocol: 50 Number of Endpoints: 2 Endpoint Address: 81 Direction: in Attribute: 2 Type: Bulk Max Packet Size: 64 Interval: 0ms Endpoint Address: 02 Direction: out Attribute: 2 Type: Bulk Max Packet Size: 64 Interval: 0ms --- I also tried building an ide-scsi module and adding that, just to be sure, but it had no effect on the USB situation. /proc/scsi/scsi still only shows the real scsi bus and not the CF reader, although /proc/scsi/usb-storage-0/ is still there. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss From jared-linux at mn.rr.com Tue Jul 23 20:29:03 2002 From: jared-linux at mn.rr.com (Jared) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mirror request: MDK 9.0 B1 Message-ID: <031994613021872FE6@mail6.mn.rr.com> Can we please get a copy of the Mandrake 9.0 beta 1 on gladiator? Thanks, - Jared From joelr at ellegon.com Tue Jul 23 20:29:29 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] configure mail server In-Reply-To: <20020723082519.D2808@real-time.com> References: <20020723082519.D2808@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200207232115.48858.joelr@ellegon.com> On Tuesday 23 July 2002 08:25 am, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting Edson Alvarenga J. (ealvarenga@cableonda.net): > > Hi, i want know how configure an mail server (sendmail) on > > linux, and that version of sendmail use? > > All linux distributions come with or allow you to download sendmail. Although it can get confusing. Mandrake's default is postfix, with sendmail emulation -- you can, of course, get sendmail and install it instead, or perhaps on top of it, but I'm told that can be a lot of trouble. From hick0142 at tc.umn.edu Tue Jul 23 20:40:31 2002 From: hick0142 at tc.umn.edu (Brian D. Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help - update (long) In-Reply-To: <20020723084939.B20673@sherohman.org> References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> <20020721150200.E8166@sherohman.org> <20020723084939.B20673@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020724022236.GA7462@8ball.wox.org> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 08:49:39AM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > I also tried building an ide-scsi module and adding that, just to be sure, > but it had no effect on the USB situation. I seem to remember that being required at some point, but that may have changed. > /proc/scsi/scsi still only shows the real scsi bus and not the CF reader, > although /proc/scsi/usb-storage-0/ is still there. Are there any files in the /proc/scsi/usb-storage-0 directory? When I use a usb storage device, there's a file (/proc/scsi/usb-storage-0/1) there which has information on the drive in question. -- Brian Hicks 'At Zango Transportation Concepts, our motto is "Caveat Emptor" which means "We hope you like it!"' -- Lambda Expressway -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020723/80f799c6/attachment.pgp From davisn at mailandnews.com Tue Jul 23 21:07:21 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] configure mail server References: <20020723082519.D2808@real-time.com> <200207232115.48858.joelr@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <3D3E15C9.9C4DCA43@mailandnews.com> Joel Rosenberg wrote: > On Tuesday 23 July 2002 08:25 am, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Quoting Edson Alvarenga J. (ealvarenga@cableonda.net): > > > Hi, i want know how configure an mail server (sendmail) on > > > linux, and that version of sendmail use? > > > > All linux distributions come with or allow you to download sendmail. > > Although it can get confusing. Mandrake's default is postfix, with sendmail > emulation -- you can, of course, get sendmail and install it instead, or > perhaps on top of it, but I'm told that can be a lot of trouble. > With Redhat, it was easy to go the other way (sendmail to postfix). Just uninstall the sendmail rpm and install the postfix one. I'd imagine going the other way with Mandrake would be about as easy. I've never actually configured sendmail, so I can't give you a comparison, but postfix was a piece of cake to install. --Nathan Davis From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Jul 23 21:12:42 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] stupid winmail.dat Message-ID: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> Hey all, my users keep sending us dorks attachments and when we get them in our unix mailers we are presented with a completely useless "winmail.dat" attachment. Anyone know a workaround? -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020723/b520f55c/attachment.pgp From estabroo at talkware.net Tue Jul 23 21:17:50 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NIS and account information References: <3D3A3505.428A62EF@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <3D3D70E4.3060903@talkware.net> Nathan Davis wrote: > Hey guys, > > I'm trying to migrate user account information to NIS (ypserv and > ypbind). I can create the mappings, and client/server interaction works > fine, but I can't find any documentation on how to setup PAM to use NIS > for account information. The goal is to add a user to NIS, with their > home directory etc., and they can login on any machine in the network. > I won't actually be using NIS to store passwords, so I don't need > authentication, I just need to make the user "exist" (according to the > client machine). Any pointers? > > Thanks, > > --Nathan Davis > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Generally you just need to add nis to the password entry in your /etc/nsswitch.conf file Eric From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 21:42:23 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] stupid winmail.dat In-Reply-To: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com>; from blutgens@sistina.com on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 10:04:11AM -0500 References: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> Message-ID: <20020723222214.F2808@real-time.com> Quoting Ben Lutgens (blutgens@sistina.com): > Hey all, my users keep sending us dorks attachments and when we get them in > our unix mailers we are presented with a completely useless "winmail.dat" > attachment. Anyone know a workaround? > Migrate your users to mozilla mail, eudora, or pegasus :-) -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 21:42:53 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mirror request: MDK 9.0 B1 In-Reply-To: <031994613021872FE6@mail6.mn.rr.com>; from jared-linux@mn.rr.com on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 09:15:14PM -0500 References: <031994613021872FE6@mail6.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020723222822.G2808@real-time.com> Quoting Jared (jared-linux@mn.rr.com): > Can we please get a copy of the Mandrake 9.0 beta 1 on gladiator? Downloading as I type this. Sucks that ftp.software.umn.edu is full.... -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From cgahlon at citilink.com Tue Jul 23 22:14:30 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] configure mail server In-Reply-To: <3D3E15C9.9C4DCA43@mailandnews.com> References: <200207232115.48858.joelr@ellegon.com> <3D3E15C9.9C4DCA43@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <200207232303.31907.cgahlon@citilink.com> On Tuesday 23 July 2002 09:49 pm, Nathan Davis wrote: > With Redhat, it was easy to go the other way (sendmail to postfix). Just > uninstall the sendmail rpm and install the postfix one. I'd imagine going > the other way with Mandrake would be about as easy. We use sendmail at work (bosses choice not mine) but I've got postfix on my Redhat boxes at home. Here's a nice little "hold your hands" configuration guide for getting postfix installed and configured on a Redhat 7.3 boxes... http://www.redhat.com/support/resources/howto/RH-postfix-HOWTO/book1.html Cheers, Chris From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue Jul 23 22:15:08 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] stupid winmail.dat In-Reply-To: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> References: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> Message-ID: <02072323054000.01186@nancy> On Tuesday 23 July 2002 10:04, Ben Lutgens wrote: > Hey all, my users keep sending us dorks attachments and when we get them in > our unix mailers we are presented with a completely useless "winmail.dat" > attachment. Anyone know a workaround? Try: TNEF Find it here: http://world.std.com/~damned/software.html Use TNEF with the following for those that fear the command line: MS-TNEF Degenerator http://freshmeat.net/projects/tnef-php/?topic_id=28%2C90 http://tud.at/php/tnef/ Or Fentun Find it here: http://www.fentun.com/ Be warned, some of the stupid attachments are just RTF versions of the message or some use-less formatting junk. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Jul 23 22:24:30 2002 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Debian Woody ISO...where? In-Reply-To: <20020722215121.GD10012@rephil.org> References: <200207222037.g6MKbGM16692@sprite.real-time.com> <20020722215121.GD10012@rephil.org> Message-ID: <1027440643.21198.6.camel@tanj> Even if you don't have a high speed connection, doing a Debian net install will be faster than downloading the ISOs, burning them, and intsalling from the CDs. When you do a netinstall, you only have to download the required packages, and then the packages you want to install. If you want to add packages at a later date, apt-get update && apt-get install blah does the trick. By doing the netinstall, it's likely that you'll end up downloading less than a full ISO, and will still have a functional system (espically if you just want a workstation type install, and don't have much interest in compiling software. When you have the interest and knoweldge to compile your own software, the development packages you need are just an apt-get away) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org "The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020723/304129a0/attachment.pgp From bneigebauer at attbi.com Tue Jul 23 22:30:08 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More fun list stuff. In-Reply-To: <20020723201042.U1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <000601c232c8$2ba707d0$0e62a8c0@slick> What algorithm/program are you using for the mapping? Graph mapping is a hobby of mine. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Matthew S. Hallacy Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:11 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] More fun list stuff. Hi. I mapped out the post/reply relationships between people on the list in this wonderful map: http://www.poptix.net/mail-thismonth.png A not-so-large, and zoomed out view (for the 'big picture') is here. http://www.poptix.net/mail-thismonth2.png An overall picture for this year is here: http://www.poptix.net/mail.png (warning, large.) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jiml at visi.com Tue Jul 23 22:30:34 2002 From: jiml at visi.com (James Louis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] stupid winmail.dat References: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> Message-ID: <3D3E2781.7080502@visi.com> Ben Lutgens wrote: >Hey all, my users keep sending us dorks attachments and when we get them in >our unix mailers we are presented with a completely useless "winmail.dat" >attachment. Anyone know a workaround? > > > > If you are using an email client besides Outlook (gasp!), you have > most likely run into the attachment winmail.dat. Supposedly this can > be prevented on the client side by sending mail in plain text; > however, this doesn't appear to work with attachments. We ran across a > cool utility at Fentun that will extract > attachments out of winmail.dat files. The beautiful thing is that it > runs on both Windows and on Linux. In fact, we ran the Linux binary to > extract an MS Word attachment, and opened it without incident in > AbiWord . from netadmintools.com. haven't tried it. just remembered reading about it. jl From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Jul 23 22:46:13 2002 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] stupid winmail.dat In-Reply-To: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> References: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> Message-ID: <15678.11582.557809.208195@tsathoggua.mydomain> IIRC when I checked one of those MS-TNEF things out, I found out it was just the same dang message over again, in html, and in some weirdo M$ format. Then I just started making vm throw them away. Seems to be an obsoleted thing, anyway. Now I get pointless multipart/alternatives from ms mailers.... From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jul 23 22:46:35 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More fun list stuff. In-Reply-To: <000601c232c8$2ba707d0$0e62a8c0@slick>; from bneigebauer@attbi.com on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 11:11:21PM -0500 References: <20020723201042.U1270@techmonkeys.org> <000601c232c8$2ba707d0$0e62a8c0@slick> Message-ID: <20020723233833.W1270@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 11:11:21PM -0500, BN wrote: > What algorithm/program are you using for the mapping? Graph mapping is a > hobby of mine. > I used graphviz (another wonderful open source program from AT&T research labs) to actually plot it all out, I used a perl script I wrote to build the input for 'dot' (part of graphviz) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From florin at iucha.net Tue Jul 23 22:46:54 2002 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Basic USB help In-Reply-To: <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> References: <20020721113844.B8166@sherohman.org> <20020721171956.GA16866@fandre.com> <20020721145020.D8166@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20020722042014.GA8654@iucha.net> On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 02:50:20PM -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote: > On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 12:19:56PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > > When you load the usb-storage module you should see which scsi device > > it is using. > > Module? Module? I'm a macrokernel fan. Modules are rarely seen on > my systems unless that's the only way something is available. > > I suppose I can shuffle it, though... > > > sdb: Write Protect is on > > sdb:<7>usb-storage: queuecommand() called > > usb-storage: *** thread awakened. > ... > > Nope, didn't get anything like that on boot, just "USB Mass Storage > device found at 2". Do you have the usb filesystem mounted? You need to enable it in your kernel config (CONFIG_USB_DEVICEFS) and possibly add it to /etc/fstab. Debian usbdevmgr mounts it automatically. It should look like: /proc/bus/usb on /proc/bus/usb type usbdevfs (rw) florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020723/c10626f6/attachment.pgp From wilson at visi.com Tue Jul 23 23:39:20 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft's Software Assurance licensing Message-ID: <20020724052249.GA524@isis.visi.com> Hey everyone, Has anyone got some real numbers I could quote on the costs associated with the change to Microsoft's new Software Assurance licensing plan? I've heard, but I can't recall where, that the new subscription-based system is based on the the number of machines in the organization that *could* run Windows, not on the number that actually do. IOW, you'd have to pay license fees for a room full of Linux-powered desktop computers. Can anyone confirm that? -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jul 23 23:57:51 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? In-Reply-To: <20020723195316.E2808@real-time.com> References: <20020723165813.S6760@real-time.com> <20020723195316.E2808@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1027488746.8844.4.camel@runabout> On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 19:53, Bob Tanner wrote: > lame, $6.95/month + 6.00 install Yeah, I've got AT&T with the '2-feature pack'. Haven't gotten the first bill yet, but I remember it being at least cheap enough to drop qwest for. :) (the two features are call waiting and caller id, afair. and call waiting caller id is included too i think.) Only thing AT&T doesn't do is Privacy+. :| -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jul 23 23:58:15 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Mirror request: MDK 9.0 B1 In-Reply-To: <031994613021872FE6@mail6.mn.rr.com> References: <031994613021872FE6@mail6.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <1027488896.8844.6.camel@runabout> On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 21:15, Jared wrote: > Can we please get a copy of the Mandrake 9.0 beta 1 on gladiator? http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/mirrors/mandrake might have it eventually. I'm not in control of the update pattern. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 24 01:10:13 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? In-Reply-To: <1027488746.8844.4.camel@runabout>; from dieman@ringworld.org on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:35:14AM -0500 References: <20020723165813.S6760@real-time.com> <20020723195316.E2808@real-time.com> <1027488746.8844.4.camel@runabout> Message-ID: <20020724014403.X1270@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:35:14AM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > Yeah, I've got AT&T with the '2-feature pack'. Haven't gotten the first > bill yet, but I remember it being at least cheap enough to drop qwest > for. :) (the two features are call waiting and caller id, afair. and > call waiting caller id is included too i think.) I've got AT&T's local phone service, the ~6 hour battery backup in the unit is nifty, as well as the ability to take it to the neighbors house. It's also got _very_ good modem connection quality, considering you've got a whopping $length_of_phone_cord_in_your_home foot of analog. The only real downside is that /all/ of my calls claim to be originating in shoreview, and none of the dial-this-number-and-automatically-get- the-closest-location numbers work, such as Pizza Hut. > Only thing AT&T > doesn't do is Privacy+. :| That's what vgetty is for =) I wrote a perl script that talks to a SQL database, when a call comes it looks up the # in the SQL database, each record in the database has an 'owner' (wife, husband, kids, roommate..) and a priority, the client runs on any OS that perl runs on, and listens for a UDP packet containing the #, a customized 'name' from the database (very useful for those evil cell phone companies that come up as 'MINNEAPOLIS') and the owner+priority. The client can be set to an owner and priority, you can choose to ignore calls not specificly for you, as well as setting a priority level (ie, kids cell phone is level 90, work is 50, you set the level to 89 at night so that work can't wake you up =). I haven't worked on it in a while due to the box I had running it going offline (bringing it back soon). Although I do plan on adding vgetty to the mix, along with daily schedules for when to change priority levels. As a side benefit, it logs all (incoming/outgoing) calls, including the duration of the call, although I haven't managed to (easily) listen to the outgoing DTMF with the particular modem I have. > Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jul 24 01:12:31 2002 From: seg at haxxed.com (Seg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs Message-ID: <1027493507.3d3e4e834fb91@webmail.nerp.net> Jobs list seems kind of dead. Sorry about the cross posting. I'm really in need of a job. I'd really like some kind of computer work, however my total lack of professional experience in anything but a little phone support and hardware monkeying seems to be a large stumbling block. I have taken a few classes at hennepin tech, for SQL database design and C++, but no diploma. I've been programming since I was 9 years old and am otherwise self taught. I'd really like to get a job doing web development, I consider myself adept at PHP, perl, and SQL. There seems to be plenty of demand on job sites for VB/ASP/SQL Server and other such microsoftness, but none for unix. They probably want years I'd also be happy to do some sys/net admin work, but no one seems to advertise 'jr' admin jobs. (Hence this message ;P) I'm certainly not ready for a Sr admin job. I'd also be happy to just do hardware again. (I got myself an A+ just for kicks a few years ago) So if anyone or their company is looking for someone who has little professional experience but learns quick and can design a relational database and hack a perl script or two give me a call. :) Unfortunately I really don't have anything I've coded online right now. I'm currently working on a web store for Spencer, but its not ready for prime time yet... From jethro at freakzilla.com Wed Jul 24 02:09:24 2002 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? In-Reply-To: <20020724014403.X1270@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: Hey, On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > The only real downside is that /all/ of my calls claim to be originating > in shoreview, and none of the dial-this-number-and-automatically-get- > the-closest-location numbers work, such as Pizza Hut. I actually _am_ in Shoreview, but the Shoreview Pizza Hut doesn't deliver to me. Neither do the Shoreview Papa John's, Domino's or Pizza Man. In fact I don't think ANYthing from Shoreview will deliver here! I have to MANUALLY find the numbers for places in Lexington/Circle Pines, and then try and pursuade them that Pizza Hut Shoreview told me that I'm in Pizza Hut Circle Pines' delivery area. Good thing I prefer to make my own pizza... -Yaron -- From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Jul 24 07:37:13 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft's Software Assurance licensing Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6942F@ipserver2.interplastic.com> I think this site might be able to help. I can also mail you the license calculator offline if you want it. Can't speak to the "room full of Linux..." http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/ > Hey everyone, > > Has anyone got some real numbers I could quote on the costs > associated > with the change to Microsoft's new Software Assurance licensing > plan? > > I've heard, but I can't recall where, that the new > subscription-based > system is based on the the number of machines in the organization > that > *could* run Windows, not on the number that actually do. IOW, > you'd have > to pay license fees for a room full of Linux-powered desktop > computers. > Can anyone confirm that? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 24 08:19:20 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] stupid winmail.dat In-Reply-To: <15678.11582.557809.208195@tsathoggua.mydomain> References: <20020723150411.GC23885@sistina.com> <15678.11582.557809.208195@tsathoggua.mydomain> Message-ID: <20020724140736.GB27652@sistina.com> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 11:29:50PM -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >IIRC when I checked one of those MS-TNEF things out, I found out it >was just the same dang message over again, in html, and in some weirdo >M$ format. Actually the tnef crap is another mime-like encoding of the already mime-encoded junk, there could be several attachments in there, or it could just be the .rtf mail. M$ blows. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020724/e352bad1/attachment.pgp From bneigebauer at attbi.com Wed Jul 24 08:19:51 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs In-Reply-To: <1027493507.3d3e4e834fb91@webmail.nerp.net> Message-ID: <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> Even those of us with a couple years and a 4 year degree are finding it tough right now. Seems like the companies that are hiring are pickier and want to stick with "certifications" (I certify that they learned this stuff just to pass this test) Some of the year requirements are funny. I saw one that wanted 5 years of .NET experience. Also, back in 1999, there was a posting that wanted 7 years of Java experience. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Seg Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:52 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Cc: tclug-jobs@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs Jobs list seems kind of dead. Sorry about the cross posting. I'm really in need of a job. I'd really like some kind of computer work, however my total lack of professional experience in anything but a little phone support and hardware monkeying seems to be a large stumbling block. I have taken a few classes at hennepin tech, for SQL database design and C++, but no diploma. I've been programming since I was 9 years old and am otherwise self taught. I'd really like to get a job doing web development, I consider myself adept at PHP, perl, and SQL. There seems to be plenty of demand on job sites for VB/ASP/SQL Server and other such microsoftness, but none for unix. They probably want years I'd also be happy to do some sys/net admin work, but no one seems to advertise 'jr' admin jobs. (Hence this message ;P) I'm certainly not ready for a Sr admin job. I'd also be happy to just do hardware again. (I got myself an A+ just for kicks a few years ago) So if anyone or their company is looking for someone who has little professional experience but learns quick and can design a relational database and hack a perl script or two give me a call. :) Unfortunately I really don't have anything I've coded online right now. I'm currently working on a web store for Spencer, but its not ready for prime time yet... _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 24 08:39:11 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs In-Reply-To: <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> References: <1027493507.3d3e4e834fb91@webmail.nerp.net> <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> Message-ID: <20020724142827.GC27652@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:08:05AM -0500, BN wrote: > >I saw one that wanted 5 years of .NET experience. Also, back in 1999, >there was a posting that wanted 7 years of Java experience. Sounds like a broken HR department if you ask me. Call them about the job and inform them that thier requirements are not likely to be met because the skill they require didn't exist 5 years ago. It's be interesting to know how they reacted when recieving that little nugget of information. Also I can't stress enough the importance of "Networking" when looking for work. (No not IP networking, people networking) It's important for us dorks to get out, get some sunlight once in a while and get to know some people, at some point if you're mingling in the right circles and can sell yourself you'll get lucky. I can assure you that staying indoors and not going to LUG meetings, trade shows etc is not going to net you many offers. In fact, I got my current job by introducing myself to the sistina founder at a LUG meeting and asked him to keep me in mind for a sysadmin job. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020724/558defa5/attachment.pgp From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jul 24 09:05:51 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs References: <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> Message-ID: <006b01c23321$1c665100$3028680a@tgt.com> This "should" be interpretted as ".NET experience and 5 years experience as a software engineer" or something similar. Tom Veldhouse > I saw one that wanted 5 years of .NET experience. Also, back in 1999, > there was a posting that wanted 7 years of Java experience. > From cgahlon at citilink.com Wed Jul 24 09:34:39 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Message-ID: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck supporting exchange and outpuke. I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Christopher Gahlon Systems Admin Caribou Lake Software From mitc0185 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jul 24 09:41:02 2002 From: mitc0185 at tc.umn.edu (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs In-Reply-To: <006b01c23321$1c665100$3028680a@tgt.com> References: <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> <006b01c23321$1c665100$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <1027523709.11614.6.camel@tolkien> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020724/cc039c16/attachment.pgp From dante at plethora.net Wed Jul 24 09:59:05 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: Time for Evolution. Syncs beautifully, full functionality, minimal cost. Get the license estimate for Exchange+Outlook, demonstrate Gnome+Evolution, and be persuasive. On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks in advance! > -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From erik at andersonfam.org Wed Jul 24 09:59:34 2002 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik V. Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <1027525773.3d3ecc8d8ab86@webmail.andersonfam.org> At my work, we use Lotus Notes/Domino....which is a decent program for email/calendering, but man, it sucks to set up and maintain...we have it running on a windows 2000 server and the server has to be rebooted at least once a month due to some kind of memory leak that slowly eats up all available memory/swap. All of our other w2k servers (that don't have domino running on them) can run for months without being rebooted. Anyways, it's an alternative for you if you want to stay away from exchange. And yes, it does sync with palm/pocket pc devices. We use a third-party program called Intellisync to do this, as support for notes is not built-in to many of the palm desktop software packages. Good luck! -Erik Quoting "Christopher A. Gahlon" : > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks in advance! > > Christopher Gahlon > Systems Admin > Caribou Lake Software > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik Anderson - erik@andersonfam.org From stenberg at me3.org Wed Jul 24 09:59:55 2002 From: stenberg at me3.org (Kjell Stenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Committee Idea In-Reply-To: <20020724142827.GC27652@sistina.com> Message-ID: I'd like to take this thread in a slightly different direction for a moment- but a related direction. I will be leaving my current job as Technology Strategist for a master degree program starting in Sept. And I was thinking about creating a volunteer technology strategy committee made up of computer-wise/socially conscious strategists who are interested in 1) promoting cool technology solutions and 2) protecting the environment/contributing to humanistic causes. This is still in idea form- but what would it be like to serve several times a year on a committee to lead one or many grassroots organizations in the deployment of cutting edge technology solutions that ultimately result in policy change that benefits mankind? In terms of networking, you'd get a chance to meet many Executive Directors of non-profits as well as other gurus from around the Twin Cities. In terms of resume building, it'd separate your resume from the crowd to have volunteer experience that really let you sink your chops into technology deployment and policy change. And in terms of all of the new and emerging technologies out there, you'd have the opportunity to work on/review projects thereby giving you experience at the development/ maintenance/ implementation/ administration/ evaluation levels. And then, in the open source community arena, there is the opportunity to create this as a case study of how the Linux community is leading the revolution of social and environmental change. Everything "on the leading edge" about this. Thoughts? Interests? Feedback? I'm quite serious about this committee and I'd like to have it in embryonic form by the end of August. All feedback is welcome. Kjell Stenberg Technology Strategist Minnesotans for an Energy-Efficient Economy stenberg@me3.org -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:28 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Jobs On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:08:05AM -0500, BN wrote: > >I saw one that wanted 5 years of .NET experience. Also, back in 1999, >there was a posting that wanted 7 years of Java experience. Sounds like a broken HR department if you ask me. Call them about the job and inform them that thier requirements are not likely to be met because the skill they require didn't exist 5 years ago. It's be interesting to know how they reacted when recieving that little nugget of information. Also I can't stress enough the importance of "Networking" when looking for work. (No not IP networking, people networking) It's important for us dorks to get out, get some sunlight once in a while and get to know some people, at some point if you're mingling in the right circles and can sell yourself you'll get lucky. I can assure you that staying indoors and not going to LUG meetings, trade shows etc is not going to net you many offers. In fact, I got my current job by introducing myself to the sistina founder at a LUG meeting and asked him to keep me in mind for a sysadmin job. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Jul 24 10:17:02 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Deja Vu???? Bite the bullet, Exchange is alright. And remember, THERE IS NO OPEN SOURCE REPLACEMENT WITH THE FUNCTIONALITY OF EXCHANGE. If you gotta have Unix look at Notes. And I am pretty sure the CEO didn't call it "outpuke". The variants M$, Micro$oft, Microborg, Lookout, Outpuke, etc... make Linux users/advocates look like zealots. Grow up. Join the workforce, realize that he who pays the bills makes the rules. In case you haven't realized, Microsoft shops are hireing about 10 to 1 compared to Unix shops. Chances are you will have to support at least some Microsoft products, why not make the best of it and realize that not everything they have done has been bad. No, Exchange is not as flexible as Sendmail, nor is it as difficult to use, nor has it had the pitiful security record of Sendmail. Sendmail, while an ass kicking smpt mailer has nothing to offer corporate America looking for calandering/scheduling. There is no "best" anything, there is "more" and "less" suitable for the task at hand. Linux is really only a free version of Unix, it doesn't scale on up as Unix will, isn't as stable, fault tolerant (yet or maybe ever) as most Unixes. All it is, is cheaper, and it will run on commodity hardware. Step away from the alter of Linux long enough to realize this. WTF is it about *nix that creates zealots. I have never met anyone in the Microsoft camp that is a zealot about Microsoft to the extent that some members of the *nix camp are zealots about *nix. > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher A. Gahlon [SMTP:cgahlon@citilink.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:16 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! > > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling > for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll > be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync > with > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be > greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks in advance! > > Christopher Gahlon > Systems Admin > Caribou Lake Software > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jul 24 10:20:09 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: ; from dante@plethora.net on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:44:27AM -0500 References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <20020724110037.F26824@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:44:27AM -0500, Daniel Taylor wrote: > Time for Evolution. > > Syncs beautifully, full functionality, minimal cost. > > Get the license estimate for Exchange+Outlook, demonstrate > Gnome+Evolution, and be persuasive. Evolution is definitely a nice replacement for Outlook, but not Exchange+Outlook. What unified calendaring daemon do you propose they use to replace the functionality of the Exchange server? All else can be replaced; it's the calendaring that is the key. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From ckhanson at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 10:33:02 2002 From: ckhanson at real-time.com (anID10T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? Message-ID: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? Maybe remove the sendamil from my red hat and set up Qmail for a mail server... and, wasn't there a TCLUG meeting featuring qmail some time ago? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020724/159837be/attachment.html From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jul 24 10:55:23 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TROLL! Stop this thread before it starts please (was "Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!!") In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com>; from RWare@INTERPLASTIC.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:51:12AM -0500 References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20020724113718.H26824@wookimus.net> I'm not going to comment point-by-point to Ryan Ware's post. This is just a general response to his post in context with focus of this list. Everyone is entitled to a rant now and then, even those that we don't generally agree with. Please, before anyone else hooks on to Ryan's troll, for that is really all his post amounted to, realize that he probably hasn't had enough caffeine for the day. I, for one, am NOT looking forward to the thread that Ryan is likely to generate, with people once again comparing and arguing point-by-point over the wide assumptions and broad-sweeping statements that Ryan has made. It is fairly obvious to all here what Ryan's opinion is, Linux isn't the solution for all problems. The counterpoint will be, but neither is Microsoft Exchange. There are people successfully deploying Linux in a wide diversity of commercial computing environments. Let's agree to disagree on this one. Now, let's see if we can't provide a little more constructive advise to our fellow Linux advocates on this Linux Users' Group email list... -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jul 24 11:00:44 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <200207241144.19570.joelr@ellegon.com> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 10:15 am, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. Realistically, if you're going to be having folks running Windows boxes, you're going to have to support Exchange Server, will be less than trying to use any of the few available *nix groupware applications. As somebody else pointed out, the scheduling stuff is the bottleneck. Email can be handled easily with any number of servers and applications -- but, with all its faults, Exchange does do a good job of group calendaring and scheduling, particularly the negotiation part, and I've not been able to find a *nix replacement that works with Outlook -- and you're not going to get everybody involved to drop Outlook, more than likely. If you really want to investigate it further than I've been able to do, you'll have to start with some alternative that can handle exchange/outlook meeting/task requests, and I'm not aware of anything that can -- Microsoft's use of proprietary formats has, so far, worked for them in this. From cbidler at innominatus.com Wed Jul 24 11:24:07 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (cbidler@innominatus.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> > WTF is it about *nix that creates > zealots. I have never met anyone in the Microsoft camp that is a > zealot about Microsoft to the extent that some members of the *nix camp > are zealots about *nix. Personally, I think the reason that *nix inspires zealous attitudes is, perhaps paradoxically, due to the insanely difficult user experience on most *nix boxes (especially, oh especially, servers running high-availability network services). Although this is a rapidly-changing reality, it is my humble contention that the learning curve for, say, a *nix mailserver running Sendmail is almost a step-function: near the bottom you know enough to check and see if there's a sendmail process running on the box; near the top there is almost nothing the machine can spit out that you haven't seen before. The distance between bottom and top is a nearly-vertical ascent, composed mostly of learning to understand the relationship between the cryptic, nearly-criminally-terse output of various commands and the state and behavior of the programs running underneath. Once you start up that cliff face, you have to believe that it's all for the good, that the knowledge you are gaining makes *you* *better*; else how could it possibly be worthwhile? Maybe you will never again encounter a corrupted mail header that causes Sendmail to choke inthat way; but getting to learn about how Sendmail deals with violations of RFC822 is worthwhile in and of itself right? Right!?! On the other hand, Windows servers are theoretically designed to be useful tools that do their business quietly and only bother you when something goes awry. When something *does* go wrong, there's often not a lot you can do about it "directly". Maybe you can click on the "End Task" button; maybe you have to reboot the server. This isn't to say that a Windows server running IIS or Exchange isn't complicated and featureful; it's to say that the complications are, wherever possible, abstracted behind a decidedly non-zealotry-inspiring GUI. The learning curve is decidedly different,in that the UI is designed to help you understand the function and state of the machine at a certain level. The functionality that is required to perform the assigned tasks of the machine is exposed; other potential functionality is hidden. When your server is just a tool to get the company mail moved around, and not a case study in the hows and whys of the NT kernel's interaction with the network layer, Exchange's implementation of RFC822, etc., what is there to get excited about? As long as you know how to configure services correctly, the machine is in one of two states (working or rebooting)95% of the time. I think the reason some *nix zealots are condescending to Windows in general is the same reason some *nix zealots are condescending to *nix newbies: the inability to come to grips with the fact that *your* passion for understanding The Whole Damn Machine does not imply that those who don't share your passion are somehow incorrect, invalid, or incompetent. Yipe, what a long-winded rant! -- Chris Johnson Bidler From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jul 24 11:35:35 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01>; from ckhanson@real-time.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 11:08:50AM -0500 References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> Message-ID: <20020724114645.I26824@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 11:08:50AM -0500, anID10T wrote: > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? DJB sucks! OK, not really. The author of Qmail had a set of goals that he feels he's met. As a CS professor, he knows what he's doing, and for many people, qmail is a great server. It's the licensing of qmail that makes many Free Software advocates jumpy. Frankly, DJB's software is not Free, as in "free beer". This does not make it bad software, just not a favorite amongst those who are "license jumpy". I would include myself in those numbers. I'd rather avoid licensing issues, and therefore choose MTA software like postfix, exim, or sendmail. There's currently a thread in the debian-devel list about migrating off an old installation of qmail to something like postfix, exim, or sendmail for the "dog bowl" philosophy. i.e. The need to eat from your own "dog bowl". In this case, Debian's Free Software Guideline and Social Contract somewhat conflict with it's use of qmail as the main mail server. Under the context of the qmail license, there's no issue with using the software, since Debian is a NPO. As one would have it, the opinions of those in charge, namely the systems administrators, influence the makeup of the network. At work, we are currently replacing the sendmail IRIX box (old and dying) with a new Debian GNU/Linux machine running postfix, spamassassin, and AmaVis with Clam Antivirus. All Free Software, all Debian packages. Gee, I wonder why. *grin* Anyway... -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From bbaptist at iexposure.com Wed Jul 24 11:48:41 2002 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <200207241227.18656.bbaptist@iexposure.com> I have the perfect solutution for you, but it won't fit in the margin of this email. Ohh wait that was my math therory. I actually did have a awesome solution for you, it was a company called Steltor (steltor.com), their Corporate Time product is awesome. The only thing is it looks like in the last few months they've been bought by Oracle. Maybe this is not a bad thing, but it will probably only run on OracleDB now. Before you could run it on MySQL, or PostGreSQL. I was not able to find that out on the Oracle webpage that they have for the product now. I know they before they had Windows, Outlook, Linux, and Mac clients. The server also ran on Linux as well. Hopefully all that functionality is still there. I would still check it out. Very nice solution, without using Exchange. Bret. On Wednesday 24 July 2002 10:15 am, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly > appreciated. > -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. From carlos at eberhardt.net Wed Jul 24 11:55:48 2002 From: carlos at eberhardt.net (Carlos Eberhardt) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> <200207241144.19570.joelr@ellegon.com> Message-ID: <3D3ED71E.50800@eberhardt.net> Joel Rosenberg wrote: > Realistically, if you're going to be having folks running Windows boxes, > you're going to have to support Exchange Server, will be less than trying to > use any of the few available *nix groupware applications. As somebody else > pointed out, the scheduling stuff is the bottleneck. Email can be handled > easily with any number of servers and applications -- but, with all its > faults, Exchange does do a good job of group calendaring and scheduling, > particularly the negotiation part, and I've not been able to find a *nix > replacement that works with Outlook -- and you're not going to get everybody > involved to drop Outlook, more than likely. The Horde Project (http://www.horde.org/) looks like it has plans to eventually get there, but no timelines. From the FAQ: "Kronolith [http://www.horde.org/kronolith/] is a web-based calendar and daily organizer (think Day-Timer). It currently provides a robust web-based calendar for individual users with repeating events, and a smart algorithm to display a whole day of events even if many of them overlap with each other. Future plans include support for shared calendars, merging multiple calendars into a single view, and Palm syncing." (just to toss out a link that everyone's probably already seen) carlos From cbidler at innominatus.com Wed Jul 24 11:56:17 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (cbidler@innominatus.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: <1090.129.191.33.203.1027532376.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Heh. IHBT. IHL. HAND. -- Chris Johnson Bidler From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 12:02:49 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com>; from cgahlon@citilink.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:48AM -0500 References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <20020724124853.D26456@real-time.com> Quoting Christopher A. Gahlon (cgahlon@citilink.com): > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly > appreciated. As a Linux consulting shop, I can answer there is no 100% opensource solution to Exchange. You can look at Bynari, Ximian Exhange plugin, but they are not as good as Exchange and Outlook. At Real Time, if a customer wants all the features of outlook/exchange, we explain the risks of outlook (viruses, etc), the risk of exchange (like the difficulty in backing up the mondo-inbox-file) and conceed Microsoft's -superior integrated- solution. Then we look to put linux in other places. Do I like this? No. But you have to loose some battles if you want to win the war. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From ben_b at ppdonline.com Wed Jul 24 12:26:05 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (ben_b) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: As a person with no ideological tie to unix based operating systems or open source software it appears that the majority of posts on this list take some sort of shot, large or small, at Microsoft. I'm glad someone else made this point, I was really considering making it myself after the recent post regarding exchange alternatives but hesitated thinking maybe I'm the odd-ball out here (mainly due to the volume of posts bashing microsoft). The reason I mention the post asking about exchange and outlook is that it seemed even more obnoxious than usual. It appeared that this person wanted any alternative to Microsoft products irregardless of whether or not they were "better", the fact that they would not be Microsoft seemed sufficient to this person. Maybe it's part of an ideology that anything open source *must* be better than anything corporate (I would disagree, I can find you many examples in which that assumption is false, in fact I would venture to say that the majority of corporate software is "better" than the majority of open source software). I think that person is doing their boss and company a disservice in catagorically rejecting all things Microsoft rather than making an objective cost-benifit analysis. There are days that after reading posts to this list I get the impression the entire Linux "community" is made up of communists and anarchists that care less about quality of software than they do about beating big business. Personally I find advantages and disadvatages to both Microsoft and open source products. Having been a software developer long enough to remember when it was commonplace to have multiple platforms in any given company I find it nice to be able to write code once (all for WIN32) and know that it will run everywhere in a given company. Think how much simpler install routines are for the whole WIN32 family than they are for the multitude of unixes. On the other hand I'm a big fan of Apache, having done a lot of web development over the past several years I've come to appreciate Apache much more than IIS. Anyway, I think it's important to have an open mind and evaluate all aspects of a product/project rather than just knee-jerk rejection of all things Microsoft. Ben (getting off the soapbox) PS the previous email mentioned a steep learning curve and complex environment as one of the reasons for diehard devotion to Linux et al, but then why does that same atitude of zeolotry exist in the Mac camp when (up to OS9 anyway) they didn't even have a command line interface. They've always attempted to be the epitomy of intuitiveness. From cgahlon at citilink.com Wed Jul 24 12:39:25 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <20020724124853.D26456@real-time.com> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> <20020724124853.D26456@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200207241317.31155.cgahlon@citilink.com> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 12:48 pm, Bob Tanner wrote: > As a Linux consulting shop, I can answer there is no 100% opensource > solution to Exchange. We don't need 100% integration, just a calendaring solution that works with outlook. I guess we'll just have to choke on the fact that it's one thing *nix doesn't do... (yet!) > You can look at Bynari, Ximian Exhange plugin, but they are not as good as > Exchange and Outlook. Thanks for the input. It's greatly appreciated. > At Real Time, if a customer wants all the features of outlook/exchange, we > explain the risks of outlook (viruses, etc), the risk of exchange (like the > difficulty in backing up the mondo-inbox-file) and conceed Microsoft's > -superior integrated- solution. These are also concerns the CEO will have, he just doesn't know it yet because I haven't replied to his request. He's a technically sharp guy for a CEO so he'll understand these issues better than most. Again thank you for the assistance. Cheers, Chris From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 12:46:32 2002 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Evolution? Message-ID: <15678.54421.77973.341317@tsathoggua.mydomain> Can anyone out there talk about the advantages and disadvantages of evolution? Here's where I'm coming from: I've moved off Windows, and in the process moved off Outlook. I was really only using Outlook for address book and calendar functions, and syncing with my pilot. I was not using the Outlook mail client, nor was I using an exchange server for all that enterprise calendaring guff. Now I use jpilot. Things I liked about Outlook: it had a significantly better database model than the pilot. Multiple addresses, tagging (the categories), etc. Things I hated about Outlook: I couldn't get the addresses out to use them well. Question: is there something we can use that has the richer data model like outlook (Exchange?), syncs with the pilot (this has to be a lossy sync), AND provides a nice open data model so that, for example, one can just write some perl code to pull information out? I've heard some people on the list talk about Evolution, but I'm having a hard time telling --- is this just an Outlook port? Does it have the key misfeature of Outlook (nasty binary data format), or is it more open, so that the db can be queried/munged by other apps (without writing C++ code)? Thanks, R From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 12:52:01 2002 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: References: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: <15678.62089.199314.935276@tsathoggua.mydomain> Just a reminder: There are probably at least some people on this list for whom the technical quality of the solution is NOT the only determiner, as your post suggests. There are people who have deep ideological commitments to Free Software (Free as in Speech), that are not limited to trying to find one's boss the best widget. I am not going to comment on the rightness or wrongness of this, but if one wants to discuss this issue seriously, one should take into account all the factors. R From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jul 24 12:54:00 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <3D3ED71E.50800@eberhardt.net> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> <200207241144.19570.joelr@ellegon.com> <3D3ED71E.50800@eberhardt.net> Message-ID: <200207241339.37067.joelr@ellegon.com> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 11:34 am, Carlos Eberhardt wrote: > Joel Rosenberg wrote: > > Realistically, if you're going to be having folks running Windows boxes, > > you're going to have to support Exchange Server, will be less than trying > > to use any of the few available *nix groupware applications. As somebody > > else pointed out, the scheduling stuff is the bottleneck. Email can be > > handled easily with any number of servers and applications -- but, with > > all its faults, Exchange does do a good job of group calendaring and > > scheduling, particularly the negotiation part, and I've not been able to > > find a *nix replacement that works with Outlook -- and you're not going > > to get everybody involved to drop Outlook, more than likely. > > The Horde Project (http://www.horde.org/) looks like it has plans to > eventually get there, but no timelines. Yup. And it'll eventually get there, perhaps -- look at openoffice.org -- but it'll be awhile . . . and I think it's safe to predict that Microsoft will attempt to keep the Outlook calendar/task request format a moving target. From dante at plethora.net Wed Jul 24 12:54:27 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, ben_b wrote: > As a person with no ideological tie to unix based operating systems or > open source software it appears that the majority of posts on this list > take some sort of shot, large or small, at Microsoft. I'm glad someone > else made this point, I was really considering making it myself after the > recent post regarding exchange alternatives but hesitated thinking maybe > I'm the odd-ball out here (mainly due to the volume of posts bashing > microsoft). The reason I mention the post asking about exchange and > outlook is that it seemed even more obnoxious than usual. It appeared > that this person wanted any alternative to Microsoft products irregardless > of whether or not they were "better", the fact that they would not be > Microsoft seemed sufficient to this person. Maybe it's part of an I can't speak for anyone else, but the majority of my professional exposure to Microsoft products has involved some level of pain. As such, I consider the avoidance of Microsoft products perfectly natural and sane. If it hurts, don't do it. On the other hand, having the sheer power of a Unix/Linux command line at my fingertips is something that is hard to pass up. Why do people insist on using Microsoft solutions? -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 24 13:09:06 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888139@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> HP Openmail was purchased by Samsung. Samsung is now selling it. Apparently it has all the features of exchange, runs on unix, and speaks MAPI to Outlook clients. Users won't notice a difference. Supposedly it's cheaper also. Would you have to support the Exchange server, or do you have some other windows admin that would? We run exchange here, but I could care less because I don't have to deal with administration on it. It does suck though, requires lots of lovin' to stay working properly. Having the functionality of Outlook is almost a prerequisite for any company, as long as you have that you're good. I'd take a look at Samsung's Openmail, it gives you full integration w/ outlook, which is what your boss wants. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Rosenberg [mailto:joelr@ellegon.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:44 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! > > > On Wednesday 24 July 2002 10:15 am, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified > calendaring/scheduling for > > our company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he > says I'll > > be stuck supporting exchange and outpuke. > > Realistically, if you're going to be having folks running > Windows boxes, > you're going to have to support Exchange Server, will be less > than trying to > use any of the few available *nix groupware applications. As > somebody else > pointed out, the scheduling stuff is the bottleneck. Email > can be handled > easily with any number of servers and applications -- but, > with all its > faults, Exchange does do a good job of group calendaring and > scheduling, > particularly the negotiation part, and I've not been able to > find a *nix > replacement that works with Outlook -- and you're not going > to get everybody > involved to drop Outlook, more than likely. > > If you really want to investigate it further than I've been > able to do, you'll > have to start with some alternative that can handle exchange/outlook > meeting/task requests, and I'm not aware of anything that can > -- Microsoft's > use of proprietary formats has, so far, worked for them in this. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From joelr at ellegon.com Wed Jul 24 13:27:01 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200207241404.40860.joelr@ellegon.com> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 12:54 pm, ben_b wrote: > As a person with no ideological tie to unix based operating systems or > open source software it appears that the majority of posts on this list > take some sort of shot, large or small, at Microsoft. I'm glad someone > else made this point, I was really considering making it myself after the > recent post regarding exchange alternatives but hesitated thinking maybe > I'm the odd-ball out here (mainly due to the volume of posts bashing > microsoft). The reason I mention the post asking about exchange and > outlook is that it seemed even more obnoxious than usual. It appeared > that this person wanted any alternative to Microsoft products irregardless > of whether or not they were "better", the fact that they would not be > Microsoft seemed sufficient to this person. Maybe it's part of an > ideology that anything open source *must* be better than anything > corporate (I would disagree, I can find you many examples in which that > assumption is false, in fact I would venture to say that the majority of > corporate software is "better" than the majority of open source software). > I think that person is doing their boss and company a disservice in > catagorically rejecting all things Microsoft rather than making an > objective cost-benifit analysis. The problem with most cost-benefit analyses is that there's often hidden costs. The cost of continuing with Microsoft products doesn't include only the new licensing charges, but the costs and risks of the difficult-to-quantify exposure to various Microsoft system vulnerabilities, present and future. These may be hard to quantify, but they're there, and some people have internalized an entirely noncrazy belief that, at least at present, these costs and risks are much lower in the open source world. (Anybody ever get a virus from an Open Office document? Or via a .txt file edited with emacs?) From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 24 13:44:02 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888141@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Does anyone have a link to a page with plans on how to build one of these? I was going to buy one, but they cost a minimum of $50, plus, I need something to build because I'm getting ansy and I might have to modify the potato cannon if I don't find something else to keep me busy. Jay From cbidler at innominatus.com Wed Jul 24 13:56:09 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (cbidler@innominatus.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: References: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: <1105.129.191.33.203.1027537809.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> > PS the previous email mentioned a steep learning curve and complex > environment as one of the reasons for diehard devotion to Linux et al, > but then why does that same atitude of zeolotry exist in the Mac camp > when (up to OS9 anyway) they didn't even have a command line > interface. They've always attempted to be the epitomy of > intuitiveness. Having extensive user experience with both "classic" MacOS (8.6) and various members of the Unix bestiary, I would say that what motivates devotion to either OS is the appreciation of elegance, just on different levels. In the case of MacOS, the elegance resides, nearly exclusively, in the user interface. The portions of the UI which are least elegant (the Chooser, having to "tell" each executable how much memory it must and may ask for from the kernel in its 'get info' box, 80% of application crashes taking the whole ship down like a magazine explosion on a cruiser) are exactly the places where it interfaces most directly with the inelegancies of the core OS design. In the Unix world, things tend toward the opposite extreme - preemptive multitasking, journaling file systems, RFC reference implementations for most of the networking stack - quite elegant. However, to talk to most of it, there's the dreaded CLI. Of course, the CLI *allows* you to appreciate the elegance embodied in the core OS design, but only after you learn to read it. It is my (continued, despite having Been Trolled) contention that Windows, as a user experience, offers neither enough elegant UI design, nor enough evidence of its inner workings, elegant or messy, to provoke "zealotry" in most cases. -- Chris Johnson Bidler From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jul 24 13:56:47 2002 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: ; from dante@plethora.net on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 01:33:26PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020724141158.K26824@wookimus.net> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 01:33:26PM -0500, Daniel Taylor wrote: > Why do people insist on using Microsoft solutions? "People" aren't usually familiar w/anything else, by choice or by experience. Familiarity brings confidence and perceived sense of security. It's all psychology. The same rules that formed our "knee-jerk" reactions to Microsoft products are the same rules that form other people's "knee-jerk" reactions to anything NOT Microsoft. A difficult fact to accept, but true none-the-less. -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr From cbidler at innominatus.com Wed Jul 24 14:08:24 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (cbidler@innominatus.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <15678.62089.199314.935276@tsathoggua.mydomain> References: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <15678.62089.199314.935276@tsathoggua.mydomain> Message-ID: <1110.129.191.33.203.1027538352.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> > > Just a reminder: > > There are probably at least some people on this list for whom the > technical quality of the solution is NOT the only determiner, as your > post suggests. > > There are people who have deep ideological commitments to Free > Software (Free as in Speech), that are not limited to trying to find > one's boss the best widget. > > I am not going to comment on the rightness or wrongness of this, but if > one wants to discuss this issue seriously, one should take into account > all the factors. > > R So far as my original post in this thread (the long-winded rant) goes, I would respond thus: My project was theorizing a reason for the relatively higher number of Unix/Linux "zealots" than Microsoft "zealots", taking as implied the earlier poster's description of "zealotry" as dispeptic ranting about how all the other team's product is unmitigated crap, especially when using phrases such as Windoze, LookOut, Micro$oft, etc. If you draw a Venn diagram of a) *nix "zealots", so defined; and b) "people who have deep ideological commitments to Free Software" I think you will find that I did group b) no disservice by leaving them out of my analysis. -- Chris Johnson Bidler From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jul 24 14:35:03 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients Message-ID: <013101c2334e$bcd73000$3028680a@tgt.com> Does anybody have experience setting up Samba as a PDC for Windows XP clients? I have followed http://www1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/tutorials/samba/index.html but I am still stumped. I am getting authentication errors, and it seems in part to be because it can not read the /usr/local/private/smbpasswd file. It gets permission denied to open it. I change the attributes to world readable (I know -- uck!) and it sets the attributes back and then can not access it. Funny it should be so self defeating. Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net From ndavis at iexposure.com Wed Jul 24 14:35:30 2002 From: ndavis at iexposure.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888141@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888141@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <200207241515.36295.ndavis@iexposure.com> Jay Austad said: > I need something to build because I'm getting ansy and I might have to > modify the potato cannon if I don't find something else to keep me busy. > Man, why don't you go buy that Audi S4 you have been drooling over? Or better yet, get an A4 and modify it.. that will keep you busy and out of the house?? Nick -- Nick Davis Associate Systems Administrator ndavis@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 24 14:40:46 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: ; from ben_b@ppdonline.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:54:00PM -0500 References: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: <20020724153344.A16733@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:54:00PM -0500, ben_b wrote: > they do about beating big business. Personally I find advantages and > disadvatages to both Microsoft and open source products. Having been a > software developer long enough to remember when it was commonplace to have > multiple platforms in any given company I find it nice to be able to write > code once (all for WIN32) and know that it will run everywhere in a given > company. Think how much simpler install routines are for the whole WIN32 > family than they are for the multitude of unixes. On the other hand I'm a > big fan of Apache, having done a lot of web development over the past > several years I've come to appreciate Apache much more than IIS. Anyway, > I think it's important to have an open mind and evaluate all aspects of a > product/project rather than just knee-jerk rejection of all things > Microsoft. > Ben (getting off the soapbox) [some snippage] One of the problems is as follows: 1) Company decides on Exchange 2) Company therefore decided on Outlook 3) Company therefore is locked into Windows, or an outdated version of Outlook for MacOS 4) Company is then locked out of using anything else on the desktop without ditching all the software they bought for the Windows systems, and Outlook, and Exchange It /is/ Microsofts business model, tie as many things together with proprietary protocols/"standards" and you've just locked a company into windows by choosing *one* product. On the other hand, you can use a UNIX variant, and *gasp* they can all communicate, using standardized protocols, usually without any problem whatsoever. Microsoft interoperates where the dollar value outweighs the lock-them-in philosophy, and even then they muck with it (email, html, pop3, etc) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Wed Jul 24 15:08:50 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69441@ipserver2.interplastic.com> I agree, but what Linux/Unix products should one buy that gives all the functionality that started this thread? There are none that are open source. > It /is/ Microsofts business model, tie as many things together > with > proprietary protocols/"standards" and you've just locked a company > into > windows by choosing *one* product. > > On the other hand, you can use a UNIX variant, and *gasp* they can > all > communicate, using standardized protocols, usually without any > problem > whatsoever. > > > From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 24 15:32:48 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888141@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 02:33:39PM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888141@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020724161446.C16733@techmonkeys.org> http://www.lirc.org/receivers.html Google rocks. On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 02:33:39PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > Does anyone have a link to a page with plans on how to build one of these? > I was going to buy one, but they cost a minimum of $50, plus, I need > something to build because I'm getting ansy and I might have to modify the > potato cannon if I don't find something else to keep me busy. > > Jay -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From daritner at attbi.com Wed Jul 24 15:55:01 2002 From: daritner at attbi.com (daritner@attbi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients Message-ID: <20020724213633.OAXH26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> I found that samba account verification takes 3 account profiles to be the same with windows 2k and above. 1. The windows login 2. The Samba user account 3. The Unix account All 3 must be the same. With Win2k and up, windows requires an encrypted password transaction, so to accomodate this samba utilizes the unix/linux account for that part. > Does anybody have experience setting up Samba as a PDC for Windows XP > clients? I have followed > http://www1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/tutorials/samba/index.html but I am still > stumped. I am getting authentication errors, and it seems in part to be > because it can not read the /usr/local/private/smbpasswd file. It gets > permission denied to open it. I change the attributes to world readable (I > know -- uck!) and it sets the attributes back and then can not access it. > Funny it should be so self defeating. > > Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? > > Tom Veldhouse > veldy@veldy.net > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 24 15:55:27 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888153@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> I saw this, it's a receiver only. I need transmit and receive for data transfer to an irda port on a phone. > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:15 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter > > > http://www.lirc.org/receivers.html > > Google rocks. > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 02:33:39PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > > Does anyone have a link to a page with plans on how to build one of > > these? I was going to buy one, but they cost a minimum of > $50, plus, I > > need something to build because I'm getting ansy and I > might have to > > modify the potato cannon if I don't find something else to keep me > > busy. > > > > Jay > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, > BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public > key 0x01938203 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From seg at haxxed.com Wed Jul 24 17:43:39 2002 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [TCLUG-JOBS] Jobs References: <1027493507.3d3e4e834fb91@webmail.nerp.net> <20020724124337.GA6440@mtu.net> Message-ID: <3D3F37BD.3060209@haxxed.com> Jon Schewe wrote: > Why don't you get your BS? I'm a computer programmer at a research firm and > most people we work with that don't have a BS in CS aren't worth much for > programming, so they end up on phone support until they take the classes to > learn not only a language, but the theory so they can pick up other languages > and concepts quickly. If what you want to do is be a good programmer(research > or application) that can keep up with the changing times, I'd suggest a BS. Don't have the time or the money right now. You see I'm at the point where I need a job so I'm not living on the street. Which I would be right now if not for Spencer. ;P > Another possibility is for you to get a job with a temp service, like > Manpower. They hire contract to a lot of companies and many times the "temp" > positions are for a few years. That'd give you the experience and let you > know what kinds of things you want to focus on for your education. Even all the _temp_ companies I've tried want a degree and years of experience. Its insane. > Hope this helps a litte. Unfortunatly we're not hiring. We're > actually "cutting costs" right now. Isn't everyone? Stupid economy. Its not any better outside of IT right now. ;P From estabroo at talkware.net Wed Jul 24 17:52:14 2002 From: estabroo at talkware.net (Eric Estabrooks) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888141@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <3D3F1554.2010704@talkware.net> Austad, Jay wrote: > Does anyone have a link to a page with plans on how to build one of these? > I was going to buy one, but they cost a minimum of $50, plus, I need > something to build because I'm getting ansy and I might have to modify the > potato cannon if I don't find something else to keep me busy. > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list IRMan is such a beast, costs about $35 if thats more reasonable for you. Works great. Eric From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jul 24 18:39:42 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients References: <20020724213633.OAXH26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> Message-ID: <001e01c23370$3cd941a0$0101a8c0@cascade> I just found what I was looking for. I needed domain admin group = someuser in my smb.conf. I was not able to register the computer accounts without it. Hmm, tutorials are always missing something. Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients > I found that samba account verification takes 3 account > profiles to be the same with windows 2k and above. > 1. The windows login > 2. The Samba user account > 3. The Unix account > > All 3 must be the same. With Win2k and up, windows > requires an encrypted password transaction, so to > accomodate this samba utilizes the unix/linux account > for that part. > > Does anybody have experience setting up Samba as a PDC for Windows XP > > clients? I have followed > > http://www1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/tutorials/samba/index.html but I am still > > stumped. I am getting authentication errors, and it seems in part to be > > because it can not read the /usr/local/private/smbpasswd file. It gets > > permission denied to open it. I change the attributes to world readable (I > > know -- uck!) and it sets the attributes back and then can not access it. > > Funny it should be so self defeating. > > > > Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 24 19:16:41 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients In-Reply-To: <013101c2334e$bcd73000$3028680a@tgt.com> References: <013101c2334e$bcd73000$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20020725003105.GB29116@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 03:14:38PM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > >Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? My Samba PDC works great with winXP. Did you edit the reg key for SignOrSeal? Can you use smbclient from a linux box to login? Did you make a "Machine Trust" account and add the machine to the domain (done ON the doze box itself) In short, I'm not 100% what steps you took since I'm too lazy to read that URL you posted, I'd rather finish this mail and go back to sipping my scotch. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020724/d2e59504/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Wed Jul 24 19:37:58 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [TCLUG-JOBS] Jobs In-Reply-To: <3D3F37BD.3060209@haxxed.com> References: <1027493507.3d3e4e834fb91@webmail.nerp.net> <20020724124337.GA6440@mtu.net> <3D3F37BD.3060209@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <20020725003208.GC29116@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 06:26:53PM -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote: >Don't have the time or the money right now. You see I'm at the point >where I need a job so I'm not living on the street. Which I would be >right now if not for Spencer. ;P Holy crap spencer what a nice fuckign thing to do! -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020724/f3d6c5e6/attachment.pgp From mike at jentges.net Wed Jul 24 20:19:02 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots References: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <20020724153344.A16733@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <000901c23380$43e9ee30$0696c7c7@victim> > One of the problems is as follows: > > 1) Company decides on Exchange > 2) Company therefore decided on Outlook > 3) Company therefore is locked into Windows, or an outdated version of > Outlook for MacOS > 4) Company is then locked out of using anything else on the desktop without > ditching all the software they bought for the Windows systems, and Outlook, > and Exchange > > > It /is/ Microsofts business model, tie as many things together with > proprietary protocols/"standards" and you've just locked a company into > windows by choosing *one* product. > > On the other hand, you can use a UNIX variant, and *gasp* they can all > communicate, using standardized protocols, usually without any problem > whatsoever. > > Microsoft interoperates where the dollar value outweighs the lock-them-in > philosophy, and even then they muck with it (email, html, pop3, etc) > Let's not forget the (essentailly) 'forced`, and I'm certain expensive upgrades. For example I heard a rumor thru some folks at the U that MS was going to be dropping support for Win2k within the next year or so? Unconfirmed of course, but not suprising. It's pretty much a regular thing it seems. For all I know it could be their justification to the users or whoever to go with XP on some new machines. With these new 'os' they of course can sell books and training too!! sure, you can run with what you got for a long time I expect, but when you have trouble, the last thing you want to see is "EOL" or some such. I think the BIGGEST problem is the people though. I was at one place, 30 users, 1" office walls, white boards on every office door, a 'sign in and out' whiteboard by the door. They use a calendar app on the server, which has been known to cause a reaction similar to "the sky is falling" if it's not working.Now the're getting new laptops and palms besides. I mean REALLY. Your tax/tuition dollars at work. Does anyone remember the original idea that computers were supposed to work for US, not the other way around? A palm and a laptop? What, take the palm to the bathroom, record any cell calls while in there and sync to the laptopwhen you get back to the desk/car, then sync with the server back at the office? Hhahah! -mj From mike at jentges.net Wed Jul 24 20:19:33 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888139@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <001201c23380$cb64b340$0696c7c7@victim> Well, not that I'm a big fan, but recent experiences with Groupwise prove a hell of a lot better than any I've ever had with Exchange. Client is nice and thin. Problem is, lots of every day stuff 'doesn't fit'. -mj From mike at jentges.net Wed Jul 24 20:23:48 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients References: <20020724213633.OAXH26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> <001e01c23370$3cd941a0$0101a8c0@cascade> Message-ID: <001301c23380$ed260ec0$0696c7c7@victim> > I just found what I was looking for. I needed > > domain admin group = someuser > > in my smb.conf. > > I was not able to register the computer accounts without it. Hmm, tutorials > are always missing something. I still can't! what priveleges does this user have on the box?? -mj > Tom Veldhouse > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients > > > > I found that samba account verification takes 3 account > > profiles to be the same with windows 2k and above. > > 1. The windows login > > 2. The Samba user account > > 3. The Unix account > > > > All 3 must be the same. With Win2k and up, windows > > requires an encrypted password transaction, so to > > accomodate this samba utilizes the unix/linux account > > for that part. > > > Does anybody have experience setting up Samba as a PDC for Windows XP > > > clients? I have followed > > > http://www1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/tutorials/samba/index.html but I am > still > > > stumped. I am getting authentication errors, and it seems in part to be > > > because it can not read the /usr/local/private/smbpasswd file. It gets > > > permission denied to open it. I change the attributes to world readable > (I > > > know -- uck!) and it sets the attributes back and then can not access > it. > > > Funny it should be so self defeating. > > > > > > Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? > > > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From scot at thinkunix.net Wed Jul 24 20:24:13 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs In-Reply-To: <1027523709.11614.6.camel@tolkien>; from mitc0185@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:08AM -0500 References: <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> <006b01c23321$1c665100$3028680a@tgt.com> <1027523709.11614.6.camel@tolkien> Message-ID: <20020724160024.B527@okane.localnet> You might want to get on the local PHP mailing list if you're not already on it. They too have monthly meetings and sometimes there's work posted to the list. http://tcphp.org/ Erik Mitchell wrote: > What I want to do it PHP or JSP/J2EE development -- although I'm pretty > weak on the J2EE stuff. I'm planning on taking Java classes in the next > year. -- -scot From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 20:27:12 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Mirror request: MDK 9.0 B1 In-Reply-To: <1027488896.8844.6.camel@runabout>; from dieman@ringworld.org on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:35:16AM -0500 References: <031994613021872FE6@mail6.mn.rr.com> <1027488896.8844.6.camel@runabout> Message-ID: <20020724082612.A26456@real-time.com> Quoting Scott Dier (dieman@ringworld.org): > On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 21:15, Jared wrote: > > Can we please get a copy of the Mandrake 9.0 beta 1 on gladiator? > > http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/mirrors/mandrake > > might have it eventually. I'm not in control of the update pattern. > gladiator has all the iso images now. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From veldy at veldy.net Wed Jul 24 20:54:04 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients References: <013101c2334e$bcd73000$3028680a@tgt.com> <20020725003105.GB29116@sistina.com> Message-ID: <001d01c23384$15af60f0$0101a8c0@cascade> I managed to get it working. I was just missing domain admin group = someuser Without that it could not register my computer accounts. Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Lutgens" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 03:14:38PM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > >Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? My Samba PDC works great with winXP. Did you edit the reg key for SignOrSeal? Can you use smbclient from a linux box to login? Did you make a "Machine Trust" account and add the machine to the domain (done ON the doze box itself) In short, I'm not 100% what steps you took since I'm too lazy to read that URL you posted, I'd rather finish this mail and go back to sipping my scotch. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin From mike at jentges.net Wed Jul 24 21:15:47 2002 From: mike at jentges.net (Mike Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients References: <013101c2334e$bcd73000$3028680a@tgt.com> <20020725003105.GB29116@sistina.com> <001d01c23384$15af60f0$0101a8c0@cascade> Message-ID: <000c01c23387$1dd75cd0$0696c7c7@victim> I'm still looking for any handy dandy tips on this one, but with 2k, not XP. I managed to get lucky once, only once. I've followed the same doc, right at the boxes, line by line. Seems all I get out of it is that I'm a computer account. I got desparate and tried as root and that gives me 'bad username or password'. All that fancy point and click crap can't even narrow it down more than that. I have to think there's an easier way? -mj > I managed to get it working. I was just missing > > domain admin group = someuser > > > Without that it could not register my computer accounts. > > Tom Veldhouse > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Lutgens" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 03:14:38PM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: > > > >Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? > > My Samba PDC works great with winXP. Did you edit the reg key for > SignOrSeal? Can you use smbclient from a linux box to login? Did you make a > "Machine Trust" account and add the machine to the domain (done ON the doze > box itself) > > In short, I'm not 100% what steps you took since I'm too lazy to read that > URL you posted, I'd rather finish this mail and go back to sipping my > scotch. > > -- > Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ > Sistina Software Inc. | > > "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you > hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jul 24 21:16:27 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> Message-ID: "anID10T" writes: > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? > > Maybe remove the sendamil from my red hat and set up Qmail for a mail server... and, wasn't there a TCLUG meeting featuring qmail some time ago? I'm running qmail on RH 7.1, roughly. I've been using qmail since version 0.75 and like it a lot (I upgraded from smail). Installs easily from source for me. I hear that Bruce Guenter's RPMs also install easily if you choose to go that route. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Jul 24 21:27:01 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <20020724114645.I26824@wookimus.net> References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> <20020724114645.I26824@wookimus.net> Message-ID: "Chad C. Walstrom" writes: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 11:08:50AM -0500, anID10T wrote: > > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? > > DJB sucks! OK, not really. The author of Qmail had a set of goals that he > feels he's met. As a CS professor, he knows what he's doing, and for many > people, qmail is a great server. It's the licensing of qmail that makes many > Free Software advocates jumpy. Frankly, DJB's software is not Free, as in > "free beer". This does not make it bad software, just not a favorite amongst > those who are "license jumpy". I would include myself in those numbers. I'd > rather avoid licensing issues, and therefore choose MTA software like postfix, > exim, or sendmail. Dan Bernstein is is of course an UberGeek, with all the rights and priveleges appertaining thereto :-). Luckily, he rarely has anything to do with the qmail mailing list, and the crew that *does* hang out there is extremely knowledgable and helpful. Meanwhile, qmail is small, fast, and secure. Compare sizes, in particular, the alternatives Chad offers. Even assuming that Wietse, say, wrote as good code as Dan did (seems a reasonable assumption), the smaller quantity and the clean functional partitioning should give -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info From mike at getbent.net Wed Jul 24 21:36:27 2002 From: mike at getbent.net (Mike Nielsen) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <0207242220040H.20963@Dingo> I have been looking for a "good" replacement for exchange and there isn't one. All the alternatives mentioned here are fine for your average linux user who can handle and deal with office applications that arn't Microsoft based. Your average user however is going to curse your name if you stick them with something "Bizzare" I hate to admit it but bizzare just about sums it up for the alternatives out there. (Oracle 91as server has a mail component that supposedly can take the place of an exchange database, but that's probably costs more than exchange) Anyone know about this? Ironically Exchanges Calendaring lacks a key feature that most larger businesses are looking for. That being assett managment. For example you have a conferance room that you want users to be able to schedule time for. You either have to play with public folders or create a user account for the conferance room. That alone confuses most end users so you can imagine what it would be like having them run an IMAP mail client then going to a web page for a calendar or opening 3 or 4 different apps depending on the solution. On Wednesday 24 July 2002 10:51, you wrote: > Deja Vu???? Bite the bullet, Exchange is alright. And remember, > THERE IS NO OPEN SOURCE REPLACEMENT WITH THE FUNCTIONALITY OF > EXCHANGE. If you gotta have Unix look at Notes. And I am pretty > sure the CEO didn't call it "outpuke". The variants M$, Micro$oft, > Microborg, Lookout, Outpuke, etc... make Linux users/advocates look > like zealots. > > Grow up. Join the workforce, realize that he who pays the bills > makes the rules. In case you haven't realized, Microsoft shops are > hireing about 10 to 1 compared to Unix shops. Chances are you will > have to support at least some Microsoft products, why not make the > best of it and realize that not everything they have done has been > bad. No, Exchange is not as flexible as Sendmail, nor is it as > difficult to use, nor has it had the pitiful security record of > Sendmail. Sendmail, while an ass kicking smpt mailer has nothing to > offer corporate America looking for calandering/scheduling. > > There is no "best" anything, there is "more" and "less" suitable for > the task at hand. Linux is really only a free version of Unix, it > doesn't scale on up as Unix will, isn't as stable, fault tolerant > (yet or maybe ever) as most Unixes. All it is, is cheaper, and it > will run on commodity hardware. Step away from the alter of Linux > long enough to realize this. WTF is it about *nix that creates > zealots. I have never met anyone in the Microsoft camp that is a > zealot about Microsoft to the extent that some members of the *nix > camp are zealots about *nix. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher A. Gahlon [SMTP:cgahlon@citilink.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:16 AM > > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! > > > > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling > > for our > > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll > > be stuck > > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > > > > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync > > with > > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be > > greatly > > appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Christopher Gahlon > > Systems Admin > > Caribou Lake Software > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ----------------------------- |\/|ike@GetBent.net From kethry at winternet.com Wed Jul 24 21:49:44 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: [TCLUG-JOBS] Jobs References: <1027493507.3d3e4e834fb91@webmail.nerp.net> <20020724124337.GA6440@mtu.net> <3D3F37BD.3060209@haxxed.com> Message-ID: <3D3F7350.9040808@winternet.com> Callum Lerwick wrote: > Jon Schewe wrote: > > Why don't you get your BS? I'm a computer programmer at a research > firm and > > most people we work with that don't have a BS in CS aren't worth much > for > > programming, so they end up on phone support until they take the > classes to > > learn not only a language, but the theory so they can pick up other > languages > > and concepts quickly. If what you want to do is be a good > programmer(research > > or application) that can keep up with the changing times, I'd suggest > a BS. hrm...well, I guess the BS in Anthropology will have to do ;) > Even all the _temp_ companies I've tried want a degree and years of > experience. Its insane. Even with the years of experience it's tough - my husband is *still* out of work *sigh* (he was in the first round of Fingerhut layoffs) > > Hope this helps a litte. Unfortunatly we're not hiring. We're > > actually "cutting costs" right now. > > Isn't everyone? Stupid economy. Its not any better outside of IT right > now. ;P Not entirely - we just hired three new people (two of them developers) have a new sales guy coming on next month, and will likely be re-evaluating our developer needs soon to see how many and when we can bring on next. Though it's a side effect of the economy as well, unfortunately as we publish software to support Workforce Investment Boards. What does this mean? This means if you're a solid programmer/project manager/etc., keep your resume brushed up and keep your eyes peeled. The company I work for is unfortunately very slow to move, but when it does, we need good people. We're still pretty heavily a Domino shop, though we're closer to getting a linux box up and running at least at first for testing purposes, and we're leaning heavier and heavier into java. Take care, Liz From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Jul 24 22:27:47 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tomorrow Message-ID: I've been asked to pass along: There's a TCLUG Beer Meeting scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday, July 25th. As usual, it's scheduled from 6pm to 8pm. This week, the Beer Meeting will be at: Degidio's 425 7th St. W. St. Paul, MN 55102 651-291-7105 For more information, and a link to a map, go to http://beer.tclug.org/ . Jima From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Jul 24 22:34:11 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com>; from cgahlon@citilink.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:48AM -0500 References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <20020725012615.A748@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:48AM -0500, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly > appreciated. My $0.02 ... The following might be worth a look: http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/lisa-nt98/full_papers/limoncelli/limoncelli_html/limoncelli.html PDF version: http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/lisa-nt98/full_papers/limoncelli/limoncelli.pdf A bit dated, but still contains much relevant information. In 1998, the author of the above paper selected Netscape Calendar Server (now iPlanet?) for calendaring because it was expected to follow open standards and protocols better than the more proprietary alternatives (such as Exchange, Groupwise, and Lotus Notes). No idea whether iPlanet can sync with PDAs, though. -- Joel Schneider Jazz - jazz88fm.com joel@joelschneider.net ISEE - www.i-see.org From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jul 24 22:34:38 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] serial port IR adapter In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888153@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 04:38:47PM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888153@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020724233110.D16733@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 04:38:47PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: > I saw this, it's a receiver only. I need transmit and receive for data > transfer to an irda port on a phone. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2041232359 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2041279144 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2040667117 You might also try the PDA section at your local computer store. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From wilson at visi.com Wed Jul 24 22:44:26 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using DHCP at the U. Message-ID: <20020724142733.GA12353@isis.visi.com> Hey fellow U. of MN folks, I registered the MAC address of my laptop a couple weeks ago at the ADCS Web site, but I'm not getting DHCP to work in Walter Library or anywhere else I've tried. Are there any known problems with Linux and DHCP at the U.? The guy I spoke with on the ADCS helpline didn't know of any, but you know how tech support can be sometimes. BTW, I'm running Gentoo and I believe the DHCP client is dhcpcd. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From joel at joelschneider.net Wed Jul 24 22:58:30 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Jobs In-Reply-To: <1027523709.11614.6.camel@tolkien>; from mitc0185@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:08AM -0500 References: <001e01c2331b$89b37bd0$0e62a8c0@slick> <006b01c23321$1c665100$3028680a@tgt.com> <1027523709.11614.6.camel@tolkien> Message-ID: <20020725013846.B748@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:08AM -0500, Erik Mitchell wrote: > What I want to do it PHP or JSP/J2EE development -- although I'm pretty > weak on the J2EE stuff. I'm planning on taking Java classes in the next > year. > > Can anyone recommend any certifications that one might get for this kind > of thing? Sun offers a "certified programmer" certification for Java. Probably not too useful unless you have related education/experience to back it up, though: http://suned.sun.com/US/certification/java/java_progj2se.html -- Joel Schneider Jazz - jazz88fm.com joel@joelschneider.net ISEE - www.i-see.org From bneigebauer at attbi.com Wed Jul 24 22:59:05 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using DHCP at the U. In-Reply-To: <20020724142733.GA12353@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <001001c23395$ae6c44f0$0e62a8c0@slick> Did you try the -h 'hostname' option? -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tim Wilson Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:28 AM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] using DHCP at the U. Hey fellow U. of MN folks, I registered the MAC address of my laptop a couple weeks ago at the ADCS Web site, but I'm not getting DHCP to work in Walter Library or anywhere else I've tried. Are there any known problems with Linux and DHCP at the U.? The guy I spoke with on the ADCS helpline didn't know of any, but you know how tech support can be sometimes. BTW, I'm running Gentoo and I believe the DHCP client is dhcpcd. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Jul 24 23:15:07 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting tomorrow Message-ID: I've been asked to pass along: There's a TCLUG Beer Meeting scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday, July 25th. As usual, it's scheduled from 6pm to 8pm. This week, the Beer Meeting will be at: Degidio's 425 7th St. W. St. Paul, MN 55102 651-291-7105 For more information, and a link to a map, go to http://beer.tclug.org/ . Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 23:15:38 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using DHCP at the U. In-Reply-To: <20020724142733.GA12353@isis.visi.com>; from wilson@visi.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:27:33AM -0500 References: <20020724142733.GA12353@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <20020724235546.A24682@real-time.com> Quoting Tim Wilson (wilson@visi.com): > Hey fellow U. of MN folks, > > I registered the MAC address of my laptop a couple weeks ago at the ADCS > Web site, but I'm not getting DHCP to work in Walter Library or anywhere > else I've tried. > > Are there any known problems with Linux and DHCP at the U.? The guy I > spoke with on the ADCS helpline didn't know of any, but you know how > tech support can be sometimes. > > BTW, I'm running Gentoo and I believe the DHCP client is dhcpcd. Have fun working with all 3 clueful people at the UofM. :-( Don't know what ADCS does, but NTS is a whank to work with. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From wilson at visi.com Wed Jul 24 23:22:31 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using DHCP at the U. In-Reply-To: <001001c23395$ae6c44f0$0e62a8c0@slick> References: <20020724142733.GA12353@isis.visi.com> <001001c23395$ae6c44f0$0e62a8c0@slick> Message-ID: <20020725045752.GA29393@isis.visi.com> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 11:42:25PM -0500, BN wrote: > Did you try the -h 'hostname' option? Thanks. I got it working after all. It turns out that the jacks in Walter Library aren't that well labeled. Only some of them are actually connected to anything. Once I found a live one I was on in no time. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jul 24 23:44:45 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Qworst DSL and ANI (Caller-ID)? In-Reply-To: <20020723195316.E2808@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > lame, $6.95/month + 6.00 install yeah, if you want voicemail and call waiting and all that stuff too, i think you can get a package for like $10/mo more than a standard line that includes it all.. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From dutchman_mn at charter.net Thu Jul 25 03:30:52 2002 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SecPanel Message-ID: <1027588295.4265.6.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Is anybody running SecPanel? It is a GUI frontend to scp. I would like to ask you some questions offline. -- Perry Hoekstra E-Commerce Architect Talent Software Services perry.hoekstra@talentemail.com From seg at haxxed.com Thu Jul 25 04:10:18 2002 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tomorrow References: Message-ID: <3D3FCBBA.6040501@haxxed.com> Jima wrote: > I've been asked to pass along: > > There's a TCLUG Beer Meeting scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday, July 25th. > As usual, it's scheduled from 6pm to 8pm. > This week, the Beer Meeting will be at: > > Degidio's > 425 7th St. W. > St. Paul, MN 55102 > 651-291-7105 > > For more information, and a link to a map, go to http://beer.tclug.org/ . So we're not all going to the slashdot meetup? Or am I confused. From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Jul 25 06:11:01 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <20020724110037.F26824@wookimus.net> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> <20020724110037.F26824@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1027548914.2186.21.camel@runabout> On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 11:00, Chad C. Walstrom wrote: > Evolution is definitely a nice replacement for Outlook, but not > Exchange+Outlook. What unified calendaring daemon do you propose they use to > replace the functionality of the Exchange server? All else can be replaced; > it's the calendaring that is the key. Year to a Year and a Half, Two years at most. Thats my guess until an open source open-standards calendaring solution is out there. Mozilla having a decent calendar and evolution are both real good reasons as why this will happen eventually. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From veldy at veldy.net Thu Jul 25 07:49:44 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients References: <20020724213633.OAXH26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> <001e01c23370$3cd941a0$0101a8c0@cascade> <001301c23380$ed260ec0$0696c7c7@victim> Message-ID: <007b01c233de$e87d0960$3028680a@tgt.com> I don't think it matters too much, as long as you add that same user to both passwd and smbpasswd. Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Jentges" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients > > > > I just found what I was looking for. I needed > > > > domain admin group = someuser > > > > in my smb.conf. > > > > I was not able to register the computer accounts without it. Hmm, > tutorials > > are always missing something. > > I still can't! what priveleges does this user have on the box?? > > -mj > > > Tom Veldhouse > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients > > > > > > > I found that samba account verification takes 3 account > > > profiles to be the same with windows 2k and above. > > > 1. The windows login > > > 2. The Samba user account > > > 3. The Unix account > > > > > > All 3 must be the same. With Win2k and up, windows > > > requires an encrypted password transaction, so to > > > accomodate this samba utilizes the unix/linux account > > > for that part. > > > > Does anybody have experience setting up Samba as a PDC for Windows XP > > > > clients? I have followed > > > > http://www1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/tutorials/samba/index.html but I am > > still > > > > stumped. I am getting authentication errors, and it seems in part to > be > > > > because it can not read the /usr/local/private/smbpasswd file. It > gets > > > > permission denied to open it. I change the attributes to world > readable > > (I > > > > know -- uck!) and it sets the attributes back and then can not access > > it. > > > > Funny it should be so self defeating. > > > > > > > > Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? > > > > > > > > Tom Veldhouse > > > > veldy@veldy.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jul 25 08:37:03 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients In-Reply-To: <000c01c23387$1dd75cd0$0696c7c7@victim> References: <013101c2334e$bcd73000$3028680a@tgt.com> <20020725003105.GB29116@sistina.com> <001d01c23384$15af60f0$0101a8c0@cascade> <000c01c23387$1dd75cd0$0696c7c7@victim> Message-ID: <20020725142359.GC30628@sistina.com> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:58:13PM -0500, Mike Jentges wrote: >I'm still looking for any handy dandy tips on this one, but with 2k, not XP. >I managed to get lucky once, only once. I've followed the same doc, right at >the boxes, line by line. Seems all I get out of it is that I'm a computer >account. I got desparate and tried as root and that gives me 'bad username >or password'. All that fancy point and click crap can't even narrow it down >more than that. > >I have to think there's an easier way? Well, webmin offers some handy tools for doing what we used to do by hand here to create samba users and machine accounts: ## To add a new user to the "Domain" follow this order. ## 1. useradd -g -d /path/to/homes// -s /bin/false ## ## ** This will add a machine account needed to establish a "trust" with a w2k/ ## ** or NT workstation. The $ is needed after the machine name. ## 2. useradd -g -d /dev/null -s /bin/false $ ## ## ** Now add the user and machine accounts to samba ## 3. smbpasswd -a -e ## 4. smbpasswd -a -m $ Now when I need to add a users i do it from webmin and it makes the updates to the "Samba Users" as well, then I go to the "servers" -> "Samba Machine Maintainer" type in the hostname and I'm done (On the samba end) Then go to the PC right-click "My Computer" go into properties, hunt around for "Network Identification" and it to the domain. Piece of cake. Relevant lines from our smb.conf: in [global] workgroup = SISTINA netbios name = SAMBA2 domain admin group = blutgens logon script = %u.bat logon home = \\%N\%U logon drive = g: domain logons = Yes os level = 64 preferred master = True domain master = True wins support = True It's all gravy. Though I admit I didn't set this up, that was Tom Hudak who used to be unfortunate enough to work for me :-) Poor bastard. Hope this helps. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020725/b4df136e/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jul 25 08:45:53 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients In-Reply-To: <007b01c233de$e87d0960$3028680a@tgt.com> References: <20020724213633.OAXH26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> <001e01c23370$3cd941a0$0101a8c0@cascade> <001301c23380$ed260ec0$0696c7c7@victim> <007b01c233de$e87d0960$3028680a@tgt.com> Message-ID: <20020725142627.GD30628@sistina.com> On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 08:26:35AM -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote: >I don't think it matters too much, as long as you add that same user to both >passwd and smbpasswd. I could be wrong but I think that user might need to be able to write to the dir where the MACHINE.SID is stored (unless samba just writes it as root) > >Tom Veldhouse > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike Jentges" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:13 PM >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients > > >> >> >> > I just found what I was looking for. I needed >> > >> > domain admin group = someuser >> > >> > in my smb.conf. >> > >> > I was not able to register the computer accounts without it. Hmm, >> tutorials >> > are always missing something. >> >> I still can't! what priveleges does this user have on the box?? >> >> -mj >> >> > Tom Veldhouse >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba as a PDC for WinXP clients >> > >> > >> > > I found that samba account verification takes 3 account >> > > profiles to be the same with windows 2k and above. >> > > 1. The windows login >> > > 2. The Samba user account >> > > 3. The Unix account >> > > >> > > All 3 must be the same. With Win2k and up, windows >> > > requires an encrypted password transaction, so to >> > > accomodate this samba utilizes the unix/linux account >> > > for that part. >> > > > Does anybody have experience setting up Samba as a PDC for Windows >XP >> > > > clients? I have followed >> > > > http://www1.ibm.com/servers/esdd/tutorials/samba/index.html but I am >> > still >> > > > stumped. I am getting authentication errors, and it seems in part >to >> be >> > > > because it can not read the /usr/local/private/smbpasswd file. It >> gets >> > > > permission denied to open it. I change the attributes to world >> readable >> > (I >> > > > know -- uck!) and it sets the attributes back and then can not >access >> > it. >> > > > Funny it should be so self defeating. >> > > > >> > > > Anyway, has anybody set up one of these beasts? >> > > > >> > > > Tom Veldhouse >> > > > veldy@veldy.net >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> > Minnesota >> > > > http://www.mn-linux.org >> > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> > > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> > Minnesota >> > > http://www.mn-linux.org >> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> > > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> > http://www.mn-linux.org >> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020725/3957e4a8/attachment.pgp From lxy at cloudnet.com Thu Jul 25 10:23:01 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <0207242220040H.20963@Dingo> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Mike Nielsen wrote: > I have been looking for a "good" replacement for exchange and there isn't > one. This really bothers me. Awhile back, all the geeks I knew were yelling about how there's no Exchange alternative (it came up frequently here, too). Ximian had a statement on their website about how there was "no interest" in making an Exchange replacement. I see now that they have Ximian Connector, which is a true Outhouse replacement as it does all the Exchange stuff just fine. I think Evolution rocks, I just have 2 complaints. A) they don't have a windows port B) they don't have an exchange server replacement. If they can get connected to an exchange server, why can't they go the other way and get Outhouse to connect to an Evolution server? People use Outhouse because in terms of features, it is the best free e-mail client for Windows. Eudora is bulky and to get the good functionality you have to shell out $$ for the pro version. Evolution does everything that Outhouse users want, without all the bugs and security problems. Why can't it be ported to Windows? -Brian From bfriedman at excite.com Thu Jul 25 10:40:02 2002 From: bfriedman at excite.com (bfriedman@excite.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools Message-ID: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com> I am in the process of setting up some QA tools for a small company (10-15 developers). I have already installed CVS on a redhat box. I wanted to ask for list input on a couple of things: 1. Has anyone used Bugzilla for external (client) bug tracking? Or just Bugzilla in general? If so, how well does it work for you, and do you have any problems with it? 2. I have previously used Rational products (as a user, not admin), including their build tool. Rational is a bit over the budget for my shop ;) I am considering using Ant to track Visual C++ and miscellaneous files. Has anyone used Ant (or another open source build tool) in combination with version control? Any comments on Ant or other tools? I am looking for something that isn't a beast to admin. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Brent Friedman "I am looking for a man with six fingers on his left hand." ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020725/4ee7e706/attachment.htm From doughanson at attbi.com Thu Jul 25 10:42:35 2002 From: doughanson at attbi.com (doughanson@attbi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tomorrow Message-ID: <20020725162634.CZUY24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> I also am signed up for the /. meetup! Anyone else from the LUG going? -- Doug doughanson@attbi.com > Jima wrote: > > I've been asked to pass along: > > > > There's a TCLUG Beer Meeting scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday, July 25th. > > As usual, it's scheduled from 6pm to 8pm. > > This week, the Beer Meeting will be at: > > > > Degidio's > > 425 7th St. W. > > St. Paul, MN 55102 > > 651-291-7105 > > > > For more information, and a link to a map, go to http://beer.tclug.org/ . > > So we're not all going to the slashdot meetup? Or am I confused. > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Jul 25 12:56:01 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tomorrow In-Reply-To: <3D3FCBBA.6040501@haxxed.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Jima wrote: > > I've been asked to pass along: *snip* > So we're not all going to the slashdot meetup? Or am I confused. Don't shoot the messenger; they might shoot back. ;) Also, I saw no notification that we were "all" going to the Slashdot meetup. Kinda silly to assume that we are. Jima From shad at wnoc.com Thu Jul 25 13:34:02 2002 From: shad at wnoc.com (Jay Wineinger) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? Message-ID: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> hey guys, I starting to admin quite a few boxen across the net and I would like to know if someone has had experience with daemons/whatever that will monitor the box and report back to one central location (or a client that can be configured to capture information from multiple locations at once). Im looking for something that can monitor network interface usage, cpu, memory, possible hardware failures,etc. Thanks, Jay Wineinger From doughanson at attbi.com Thu Jul 25 13:34:39 2002 From: doughanson at attbi.com (doughanson@attbi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting tomorrow Message-ID: <20020725191624.HVTR26053.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@rwcrwbc70> Not to offend, but the /. meetup for St. Paul was cancelled, but the Minneapolis one is still on... -- Doug doughanson@attbi.com > On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Callum Lerwick wrote: > > Jima wrote: > > > I've been asked to pass along: > *snip* > > So we're not all going to the slashdot meetup? Or am I confused. > > Don't shoot the messenger; they might shoot back. ;) > Also, I saw no notification that we were "all" going to the Slashdot > meetup. Kinda silly to assume that we are. > > Jima > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Jul 25 13:55:52 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy>; from shad@wnoc.com on Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 02:11:18PM -0500 References: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> Message-ID: <20020725144407.A439@okane.localnet> Big Brother http://www.bb4.com/ NetSaint http://www.netsaint.org/ Mon http://www.kernel.org/software/mon/ I did a talk on Mon for TCLUG a while back; my notes are here: http://thinkunix.net/docs/monitoring/ I tried mon but later switched to Big Brother after seeing what it can do. YMMV of course. Jay Wineinger wrote: > hey guys, I starting to admin quite a few boxen across the net and I > would like to know if someone has had experience with daemons/whatever > that will monitor the box and report back to one central location (or a > client that can be configured to capture information from multiple > locations at once). Im looking for something that can monitor network > interface usage, cpu, memory, possible hardware failures,etc. > > Thanks, > Jay Wineinger > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- -scot From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Jul 25 14:08:02 2002 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools In-Reply-To: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com>; from bfriedman@excite.com on Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 12:21:45PM -0400 References: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <20020725144942.B439@okane.localnet> bfriedman@excite.com wrote: > I am in the process of setting up some QA tools for a small company (10-15 developers). > > 1. Has anyone used Bugzilla for external (client) bug tracking? Or just Bugzilla in general? If so, how well does it work for you, and do you have any problems with it? our development team at work uses Bugzilla internally; I've had occasion to use to too. Seems to work pretty well. I've also reported bugs to RedHat via their bugzilla. As a user it works pretty well. Another option might be Request Tracker (RT) http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ We use RT at work for internal/external customer support. It's basically a ticketing system and pretty much everything can be done via emails (opening, updating tickets, etc). Can't speak to your other questions. -- -scot From jiml at visi.com Thu Jul 25 14:08:27 2002 From: jiml at visi.com (James Louis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? References: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> Message-ID: <3D405408.9050901@visi.com> Jay Wineinger wrote: >hey guys, I starting to admin quite a few boxen across the net and I >would like to know if someone has had experience with daemons/whatever >that will monitor the box and report back to one central location (or a >client that can be configured to capture information from multiple >locations at once). Im looking for something that can monitor network >interface usage, cpu, memory, possible hardware failures,etc. > >Thanks, >Jay Wineinger > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > Big Brother is cool! jl From bneigebauer at attbi.com Thu Jul 25 14:35:59 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (BN) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools In-Reply-To: <20020725144942.B439@okane.localnet> Message-ID: <000401c23418$31452630$6462a8c0@slick> Anyone ever use Mantis or phpBugTracker? At my last company I wrote a custom bug-tracker. I don't want to do it all over it again. (Can't carry it from company to company, intellectual property issues) Last time it was ASP/SQL Server based and this time I want to make it more OS Friendly. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scot Jenkins Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:50 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools bfriedman@excite.com wrote: > I am in the process of setting up some QA tools for a small company (10-15 developers). > > 1. Has anyone used Bugzilla for external (client) bug tracking? Or just Bugzilla in general? If so, how well does it work for you, and do you have any problems with it? our development team at work uses Bugzilla internally; I've had occasion to use to too. Seems to work pretty well. I've also reported bugs to RedHat via their bugzilla. As a user it works pretty well. Another option might be Request Tracker (RT) http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ We use RT at work for internal/external customer support. It's basically a ticketing system and pretty much everything can be done via emails (opening, updating tickets, etc). Can't speak to your other questions. -- -scot _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jared-linux at mn.rr.com Thu Jul 25 15:31:01 2002 From: jared-linux at mn.rr.com (Jared Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools In-Reply-To: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com> References: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: > 1. Has anyone used Bugzilla for external (client) bug tracking? Or just > Bugzilla in general? If so, how well does it work for you, and do you have > any problems with it? I work for OTI (IBM) on the Eclipse project. When the project went open source, we switched to Bugzilla (from an internal tool) and we've loved it. We haven't had any problems. - Jared From clay at fandre.com Thu Jul 25 15:58:54 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <20020725144407.A439@okane.localnet> References: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> <20020725144407.A439@okane.localnet> Message-ID: <20020725213624.GT16488@fandre.com> Don't forget about SPONG: http://spong.sourceforge. Although my vote goes for NetSaint. On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Big Brother > http://www.bb4.com/ > > NetSaint > http://www.netsaint.org/ > > Mon > http://www.kernel.org/software/mon/ > > I did a talk on Mon for TCLUG a while back; my notes are here: > http://thinkunix.net/docs/monitoring/ > > I tried mon but later switched to Big Brother after seeing what it can > do. YMMV of course. > From shad at wnoc.com Thu Jul 25 16:02:16 2002 From: shad at wnoc.com (Jay Wineinger) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <3D405408.9050901@visi.com> References: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> <3D405408.9050901@visi.com> Message-ID: <1027632809.440.25.camel@ShadowLappy> > Big Brother is cool! > > jl Yes, big brother is very cool. however I think the commercial license is too steep for me at the moment. Some of the suggested free monitors look promising, mon especially. Jay From tanner at real-time.com Thu Jul 25 16:54:33 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <1027632809.440.25.camel@ShadowLappy>; from shad@wnoc.com on Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 04:33:28PM -0500 References: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> <3D405408.9050901@visi.com> <1027632809.440.25.camel@ShadowLappy> Message-ID: <20020725171903.B12671@real-time.com> Quoting Jay Wineinger (shad@wnoc.com): > Yes, big brother is very cool. however I think the commercial license > is too steep for me at the moment. Some of the suggested free monitors > look promising, mon especially. www.opennms.org -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From theixian at hotmail.com Thu Jul 25 17:45:48 2002 From: theixian at hotmail.com (Loren Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <1090.129.191.33.203.1027532376.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: loren@grok:~$ wtf ihbt Gee... I don't know what ihbt means... loren@grok:~$ wtf ihl Gee... I don't know what ihl means... loren@grok:~$ wtf hand HAND: have a nice day 1 out of 3 :P ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots > > > > Heh. > > IHBT. IHL. HAND. > > -- > Chris Johnson Bidler > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From myok at ogzr.org Thu Jul 25 17:46:24 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Distributed monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <1027632809.440.25.camel@ShadowLappy> References: <1027624279.440.6.camel@ShadowLappy> <3D405408.9050901@visi.com> <1027632809.440.25.camel@ShadowLappy> Message-ID: <1027639241.24340.5.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 16:33, Jay Wineinger wrote: > > > Big Brother is cool! > > > > jl > > Yes, big brother is very cool. however I think the commercial license > is too steep for me at the moment. Eh? It's free as long as you don't re-sell it as part of your own software. I used Big Brother for years at my last job, never had to pay a cent. Business-level support costs money, though. nagios (http://www.nagios.org) has been called the next generation of Net Saint. It's worth a look. -- Carl Patten From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jul 25 18:53:49 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? In-Reply-To: <20020723120906.A16436@lemongecko.org>; from drake@lemongecko.org on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 12:09:06PM -0400 References: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> <20020723120906.A16436@lemongecko.org> Message-ID: <20020725194357.H24609@real-time.com> > > What version of glibc? > > It's whatever Debian unstable is currently using: > > $ dpkg -l | grep libc > ii libc6 2.2.5-12 GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone > ii libc6-dev 2.2.5-12 GNU C Library: Development Libraries and Hea > ... running the same library here, I can create 3GB files no problem. I'm on ext3, tho. do you have any other partitions with a different filesystem that you can try creating large files on? also, try running 'ulimit -a', and see what it says for 'file size'. Carl Soderstrom -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jul 25 18:54:30 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com>; from cbidler@innominatus.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 11:54:24AM -0500 References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: <20020725193818.G24609@real-time.com> I'm going to add my fuel to the fire, even though I know better, and Chewie made a very reasoned speech for people not to do it. :) here's my theory about why *nix zealots exist, and why they think the way they do, even to their own detriment sometimes (as I will point out). (I'm also proud to say that I am firmly guilty of the things I will lay out below.) for purposes of this discourse, I'm going to try avoiding the mention of '*nix' and 'Microsoft'. based on who you are, which one is 'good software' and which is 'bad software' is a variable thing. there are a lot of 'consultants' that exist solely because bad software gives them a constant job, babysitting balky systems. Without the need for constant attention, the administrator market would be much smaller, and some people would be forced to go find other work. Many zealots are the sort who feel they have a moral obligation to Do The Job Right. They find the behavior mentioned in the above paragraph morally reprehensible (because it wastes time that could be spent doing Cool Things, or at least Other Things); and thus a Holy War is at least partly justified. even if the result of the War would be to have them downsized out of the company, they think ahead to that and say 'at least I did the job right; and there will be another place to go work'. I personally hate shoddy software because as an administrator, it makes my life difficult. people who use shoddy software (read: most end users) often will make your life difficult and waste your time, because they make the problems caused by bad software to be *your* problem. So even if I don't use it myself, I still have it inflicted on me by shortsighted and ignorant people. The upshot of all this is Use the Right Tool For the Job. I personally long ago decided that there was nothing under Windows that was worth the hassle. I don't game much, nor do I need accounting software; so I largely did without those things when they weren't available. Other people have different tolerances and needs. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From drake at lemongecko.org Thu Jul 25 20:17:40 2002 From: drake at lemongecko.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? In-Reply-To: <20020725194357.H24609@real-time.com>; from chrome@real-time.com on Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 07:43:57PM -0500 References: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> <20020723120906.A16436@lemongecko.org> <20020725194357.H24609@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020725205835.B29120@lemongecko.org> On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 at 07:43PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > running the same library here [libc6 2.2.5], I can create 3GB files no > problem. I'm on ext3, tho. do you have any other partitions with a > different filesystem that you can try creating large files on? I made a 5GB file on ext3 no problem. Okay, now I'm confused! > also, try running 'ulimit -a', and see what it says for 'file size'. It says unlimited. I'll poke around some more and see if I can figure out why my reiser partition is unhappy. Thanks for the help, though... Dan From schanno at tcfreenet.org Thu Jul 25 20:27:46 2002 From: schanno at tcfreenet.org (Terry R Schanno) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Revive the Free-Net -- volunteer picnic (fwd) Message-ID: <20020725211644.B82274-100000@tcfreenet.org> I've been asked to forward this along. Please read it and seriously consider helping out. I've been a volunteer with the freenet for 5 years, and I get lots of goodies for my time - laptops, computers...free dialup. Anyway, even if your not all that interested, it is a free picnic with a bunch of geek types. Terry Schanno TCFN Volunteer Coordinator schanno@tcfreenet.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Members and friends, Last February, Twin Cities Free-Net adopted an ambitious new mission: to provide the means for everyone in the Twin Cities to access Internet resources... meaning that we will become both a free Internet provider and a source for Internet-capable computer equipment, with an emphasis on serving people who would otherwise have no equipment or service. Details can be found at http://tcfreenet.org/about/plan.html. Our progress toward this mission has been promising but slow because our volunteer base has dwindled in recent years to only a handful. If you want to see this vision become a reality, we need your help! Can you help us update our (alarmingly out-of-date) Web site? Can you help fix up old computer equipment? Are you an accountant, lawyer, publicist, UNIX system administrator, technical writer, or polyglot? These are just some of the skills we need in the coming months! You are invited, whatever your skills, to a picnic at Powderhorn Park (near the park building, at 3400 15th Ave S, Minneapolis) at 6:00 PM on Monday, July 29. We'll talk about what we need to do and figure out who will work on what. We may even have a demonstration system to show off... We will provide the food. Please reply to me at secretary@tcfreenet.org if you plan to come, and be sure to mention any dietary restrictions we need to accommodate. I hope to see you there! Ben Stallings, Secretary Twin Cities Free-Net From cbidler at innominatus.com Thu Jul 25 20:38:58 2002 From: cbidler at innominatus.com (Chris Johnson Bidler) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <1090.129.191.33.203.1027532376.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> Message-ID: <3D40B2B9.2020907@innominatus.com> Loren Burlingame wrote: > loren@grok:~$ wtf ihbt > Gee... I don't know what ihbt means... > loren@grok:~$ wtf ihl > Gee... I don't know what ihl means... > loren@grok:~$ wtf hand > HAND: have a nice day > > 1 out of 3 :P More usually seen as 'YHBT' and 'YHL': I Have Been Trolled (more commonly You Have Been Trolled) I Have Lost (more commonly You Have Lost) (Have A Nice Day) From tracy at mckibben.d2g.com Thu Jul 25 21:53:50 2002 From: tracy at mckibben.d2g.com (Tracy McKibben) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo Message-ID: <35432.10.10.10.2.1027654103.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Shouting this from my rooftop would cause my neighbors to think I'm nuts, so I'll shout it there where folks will understand: I LOVE GENTOO!!! After seeing it recommended here, I decided to give it a spin. Took a while to get it up and running completely, but now that it is, I'm happy as a clam. I love the ebuild system, and everything is so FAST compared to my Mandrake install. Love it, love it, love it... -- o_II_--__--__-----______________ /===================\ /==================\ I___________I__I I I I I I I I I II o o o o o o o II /~o~~O-O-O-O-O~o~~~~o==o~==~o==o~~~o=o=o~~=====~~o=o=o~~~o=o=o~~~~~~~~o=o=o~ --Tracy-McKibben--tracy@mckibben.d2g.com----http://mckibben.d2g.com--------- Currently 73?F in Eden Prairie, MN, but it feels like 73?F From jpschewe at mtu.net Thu Jul 25 22:17:22 2002 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 2GB file limit? In-Reply-To: <20020725194357.H24609@real-time.com> References: <20020721222650.A8697@lemongecko.org> <20020723120906.A16436@lemongecko.org> <20020725194357.H24609@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020726035724.GD11603@mtu.net> On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 07:43:57PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > What version of glibc? > > > > It's whatever Debian unstable is currently using: > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep libc > > ii libc6 2.2.5-12 GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone > > ii libc6-dev 2.2.5-12 GNU C Library: Development Libraries and Hea > > ... > > running the same library here, I can create 3GB files no problem. I'm on > ext3, tho. > do you have any other partitions with a different filesystem that you can > try creating large files on? Mentioning ext3 reminded me, there are two versions of ext2. So it depends on when you created it. If you created the paration with the newer versions of mke2fs you'll have the extended attributes, which allow big files. If not, you're stuck under 2GB. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From mitc0185 at tc.umn.edu Thu Jul 25 22:31:53 2002 From: mitc0185 at tc.umn.edu (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <3D40B2B9.2020907@innominatus.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <1090.129.191.33.203.1027532376.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <3D40B2B9.2020907@innominatus.com> Message-ID: <1027657191.13290.1.camel@tolkien> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020725/555493e4/attachment.pgp From stenberg at me3.org Thu Jul 25 22:32:30 2002 From: stenberg at me3.org (Kjell Stenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: Meetingmaker is a possibility. www.meetingmaker.com Kjell -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Christopher A. Gahlon Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:16 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck supporting exchange and outpuke. I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had stoppped development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will sync with various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Christopher Gahlon Systems Admin Caribou Lake Software _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Thu Jul 25 22:37:55 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69437@ipserver2.interplastic.com> What if they already have windows clients? "We'll just put linux on your computer, here ya go enduser." > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Taylor [SMTP:dante@plethora.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:44 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange > server!!! > > Time for Evolution. > > Syncs beautifully, full functionality, minimal cost. > > Get the license estimate for Exchange+Outlook, demonstrate > Gnome+Evolution, and be persuasive. > > > > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > > > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified > calendaring/scheduling for our > > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says > I'll be stuck > > supporting exchange and outpuke. > > > > I had looked at HP openmail about a year ago but they had > stoppped > > development. Are there any viable alternatives now that will > sync with > > various PDA's? Any suggestions opensouce or commercial would be > greatly > > appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > -- > Daniel Taylor > dante@plethora.net > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chuck at redroot.org Thu Jul 25 22:56:52 2002 From: chuck at redroot.org (Chuck Milam) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: If you do end up having to support Exchange, I recommend putting a Linux box in front of it to do all the SMTP gatewaying to the rest of the BigBadWorld. Exchange servers tend to behave more rationally if they don't have to direct connect to the myriad TCP stacks/SMTP mailers out in the wild. -- Chuck Milam chuck@redroot.org From wilson at visi.com Thu Jul 25 23:44:07 2002 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo In-Reply-To: <35432.10.10.10.2.1027654103.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> References: <35432.10.10.10.2.1027654103.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> Message-ID: <20020726045608.GA21346@isis.visi.com> On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:28:23PM -0500, Tracy McKibben wrote: > > After seeing it recommended here, I decided to give it a spin. Took a > while to get it up and running completely, but now that it is, I'm happy > as a clam. I love the ebuild system, and everything is so FAST compared > to my Mandrake install. I've had fun with it too. Has anyone seen a nice summary of the sorts of compiler optimizations that people are using with Gentoo? I'm not a C hacker so I don't understand all the various gcc options. Right now I've got mine set as: Pentium Pro/Pentium II/Pentium III+/Pentium 4/Athlon exclusive (binaries # will use the P6 instruction set and only run on P6+ systems) CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu" CFLAGS="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" CXXFLAGS="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" I think these are fairly conservative. -Tim -- Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com From dieman at ringworld.org Fri Jul 26 00:50:52 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69437@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69437@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <1027664589.2300.44.camel@runabout> On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 10:58, Ryan Ware wrote: > What if they already have windows clients? "We'll just put linux on > your computer, here ya go enduser." [STFU] Obviously, you didn't ask the question, so I don't think your the best to judge the answers. People are fully able to judge their own situation and figure things out themselves. We don't need such a smart guy as yourself trolling about telling us how to do things right. [not saying either way is right, your just exceptionally good at trolling lately.] -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From dante at plethora.net Fri Jul 26 01:23:20 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: Calm down, step away from the server. Remember we can't help you until you admit you have a problem. ;) On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Ryan Ware wrote: > Deja Vu???? Bite the bullet, Exchange is alright. And remember, > THERE IS NO OPEN SOURCE REPLACEMENT WITH THE FUNCTIONALITY OF > EXCHANGE. If you gotta have Unix look at Notes. And I am pretty [major rant snippage here] -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From nate at refried.org Fri Jul 26 01:23:54 2002 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> References: <200207241015.48251.cgahlon@citilink.com> Message-ID: <20020724163339.GA1260@refried.org> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:15:48AM -0500, Christopher A. Gahlon wrote: > Help!!! The CEO has just mandiated unified calendaring/scheduling for our > company. And unless I can find a viable alternative he says I'll be stuck > supporting exchange and outpuke. I haven't checked this out, but this was announced in April by Sendmail. They now have a Calendar server. http://store.sendmail.com/cgi-bin/smistore/e.store/prodcategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&prodCategory=-9343&localId=USA Nate From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Fri Jul 26 05:47:01 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69455@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Shoddy end user software... Currently a lot of end user programs in KDE, or GNOME are broken and segfault regularly, far more than Windows counter parts. Two that come to mind for me are GNUCash, and Moneydance. I can't remember the last time Quicken crashed on me. Windows does not have a monopoly on crashing. > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [SMTP:chrome@real-time.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 7:38 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots > > > > I personally hate shoddy software because as an > administrator, it > makes my life difficult. people who use shoddy software (read: > most end > users) often will make your life difficult and waste your time, > because > they make the problems caused by bad software to be *your* > problem. So even > if I don't use it myself, I still have it inflicted on me by > shortsighted > and ignorant people. From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Fri Jul 26 05:52:00 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69456@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Not my intention to be a troll, I am just pointing out a few things I notice. I guess they are less than appreciated though. I guess I have just grown tired of seeing Linux proposed everywhere whether or not it is a good fit. Just for the record, I have Unix, Linux and Windows servers and the *nix doesn't require as much of my time. Just like most of you I don't like Microsoft's direction, but we have Windows clients. Sure I could run Samba to get a few more Linux boxes in place, but then I am setting myself up for Microsoft service packs that break Samba for the clients and then having to wait for the Samba project to work around it. "sorry user, I'll have you back to your files real soon now." > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Dier [SMTP:dieman@ringworld.org] > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 1:23 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange > server!!! > > [not saying either way is right, your just exceptionally good at > trolling lately.] From paul at harris.net Fri Jul 26 09:44:15 2002 From: paul at harris.net (Paul) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quake 3 Message-ID: <20020726081918.17670.h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Just a quick heads-up that Micro Center in St Louis Park (off 100 on 36th) is selling Quake 3 Arena Linux version for $1.99. The tin it comes in is worth that, and it gives you the data files you need to use the downloadable Windows version (if you feel the need). I was amused to find included in the tin a copy of SUSE 6.3 - can't recall the last Windows game that came with a free copy of '98 :) They also have Railroad Tycoon and a couple of other Linux titles for cheap (<$5) Cheers, Paul From doughanson at attbi.com Fri Jul 26 09:53:02 2002 From: doughanson at attbi.com (doughanson@attbi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Sys Admin Message-ID: <20020726153953.ZWVE24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> Happy Sys Admin Day to all of you Admins out there :-)~ http://www.sysadminday.com -- Doug doughanson@attbi.com From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jul 26 09:57:20 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <1027657191.13290.1.camel@tolkien> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> <1085.129.191.33.203.1027529664.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <1090.129.191.33.203.1027532376.squirrel@www.innominatus.com> <3D40B2B9.2020907@innominatus.com> <1027657191.13290.1.camel@tolkien> Message-ID: <20020726152344.GB2096@sistina.com> On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 11:19:50PM -0500, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Shouting this from my rooftop would cause my neighbors to think I'm nuts, > so I'll shout it there where folks will understand: > I LOVE GENTOO!!! :-) > After seeing it recommended here, I decided to give it a spin. Took a > while to get it up and running completely, but now that it is, I'm happy > as a clam. I love the ebuild system, and everything is so FAST compared > to my Mandrake install. > Love it, love it, love it... Why not tell gentoo-dev@gentoo.org, we love to hear stuff like that. > Ever see an email like this from a Windows user? If you installed gentoo, you're a special breed of window user ;-) -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020726/778387d9/attachment.pgp From veldy at veldy.net Fri Jul 26 10:06:19 2002 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo References: <35432.10.10.10.2.1027654103.squirrel@mckibben.d2g.com> <20020726045608.GA21346@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c234ac$47474eb0$3028680a@tgt.com> CFLAGS ="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" is not convervative at all. -O3 could cause you many problems in stability. I would recommend the following. CFLAGS="-O -pipe -march=686" CXXFLAGS="-O -pipe -march=686 -fmemoize-lookups -fsave-memoized" Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Wilson" To: Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Gentoo > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:28:23PM -0500, Tracy McKibben wrote: > > > > After seeing it recommended here, I decided to give it a spin. Took a > > while to get it up and running completely, but now that it is, I'm happy > > as a clam. I love the ebuild system, and everything is so FAST compared > > to my Mandrake install. > > I've had fun with it too. Has anyone seen a nice summary of the sorts of > compiler optimizations that people are using with Gentoo? I'm not a C > hacker so I don't understand all the various gcc options. > > Right now I've got mine set as: > > Pentium Pro/Pentium II/Pentium III+/Pentium 4/Athlon exclusive > (binaries > # will use the P6 instruction set and only run on P6+ systems) > CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu" > CFLAGS="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" > CXXFLAGS="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" > > I think these are fairly conservative. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson | Visit Sibley online: | Check out: > Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.org | http://www.zope.com > W. St. Paul, MN | | http://slashdot.org > wilson@visi.com | | http://linux.com > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From blutgens at sistina.com Fri Jul 26 10:21:13 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Sys Admin In-Reply-To: <20020726153953.ZWVE24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> References: <20020726153953.ZWVE24728.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc58> Message-ID: <20020726155939.GF2096@sistina.com> On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 03:39:51PM +0000, doughanson@attbi.com wrote: >Happy Sys Admin Day to all of you Admins out there :-)~ >http://www.sysadminday.com Yeah, like we're all gonna show up at work and have gifts on the desk. How silly. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020726/53137df3/attachment.pgp From joelr at ellegon.com Fri Jul 26 10:25:39 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69455@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69455@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <200207261100.44058.joelr@ellegon.com> On Friday 26 July 2002 06:20 am, Ryan Ware wrote: > Shoddy end user software... Currently a lot of end user programs in > KDE, or GNOME are broken and segfault regularly, far more than > Windows counter parts. Two that come to mind for me are GNUCash, > and Moneydance. I can't remember the last time Quicken crashed on > me. Windows does not have a monopoly on crashing. No, it doesn't. But, in contrast, the crown jewels of the Windows world -- the OS itself, Word, Outlook etc. -- do tend to have a lot of problems, while in the *nix world, it's quite the opposite, simply because the perceived importance of the more important programs leads to more people working on finding and correcting bugs and inadequacies. It's one of the key values of the whole open source concept. From kethry at winternet.com Fri Jul 26 12:03:25 2002 From: kethry at winternet.com (Liz Burke-Scovill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Sys Admin In-Reply-To: <20020726155939.GF2096@sistina.com> Message-ID: Some may even get pizza... On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Ben Lutgens wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 03:39:51PM +0000, doughanson@attbi.com wrote: > >Happy Sys Admin Day to all of you Admins out there :-)~ > >http://www.sysadminday.com > > Yeah, like we're all gonna show up at work and have gifts on the desk. How > silly. > > -- Imagination is intelligence having fun... e-mail: kethry@winternet.com URL: http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html From tanner at real-time.com Fri Jul 26 12:33:01 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat support of ppc? Message-ID: <20020726131527.P16720@real-time.com> Don't understand this, but rsync last night snarf'd this from the official mirrors at Redhat: linux/redhat/linux/7.1/en/os/ppc Anyone hear anything about Redhat support ppc now? And WHY on 7.1? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From jack at jacku.com Fri Jul 26 13:25:30 2002 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quake 3 In-Reply-To: <20020726081918.17670.h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020726081918.17670.h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <200207261410.28299.jack@jacku.com> On Friday 26 July 2002 10:19, Paul wrote: > Just a quick heads-up that Micro Center in St Louis Park > (off 100 on 36th) is selling Quake 3 Arena Linux version for > $1.99. The tin it comes in is worth that, and it gives you > the data files you need to use the downloadable Windows > version (if you feel the need). > > I was amused to find included in the tin a copy of SUSE 6.3 > - can't recall the last Windows game that came with a free > copy of '98 :) > > They also have Railroad Tycoon and a couple of other Linux > titles for cheap (<$5) > > Cheers, Paul I picked up a copy of Railroad Tycoon last week, that and a serial mouse (rebuilt older system without PS/2 or USB ports) cost me $10! -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com From austad at marketwatch.com Fri Jul 26 16:07:58 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Sys Admin Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888211@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> > Some may even get pizza... We got Chipotle and a huge "Happy Sysadmin Day" cake. Yum. No piles of cash or shiny cars though. Maybe next year... sigh... From amy at real-time.com Fri Jul 26 16:31:01 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Sys Admin In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888211@mspexch2.office.mktw.net>; from austad@marketwatch.com on Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 02:11:16PM -0500 References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888211@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020726171440.C1896@real-time.com> On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 02:11:16PM -0500, Austad, Jay (austad@marketwatch.com) wrote: > > Some may even get pizza... > > We got Chipotle and a huge "Happy Sysadmin Day" cake. Yum. Really? Wow. That's nice. A couple of users mentioned sysadmin day, but that's all for me... Oh well, I don't have many problem users so I guess it's OK. -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020726/07221216/attachment.pgp From myok at ogzr.org Fri Jul 26 17:15:38 2002 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Quake 3 In-Reply-To: <20020726081918.17670.h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20020726081918.17670.h014.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <1027723851.4805.9.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 10:19, Paul wrote: > Just a quick heads-up that Micro Center in St Louis Park > (off 100 on 36th) is selling Quake 3 Arena Linux version for > $1.99. The tin it comes in is worth that, and it gives you > the data files you need to use the downloadable Windows > version (if you feel the need). > It's fully functional on Red Hat 7.3, FYI. I played it again last night. Some older Loki games, Unreal Tournament for instance, require some library sym-linking to keep them working with newer 3-D accelerated cards. Quake 3 seems to be fine as long as /sbin/ldconfig is run after, say, a kernel build or video driver upgrade. Is there a FAQ for this kind of thing? -- Carl Patten From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Jul 26 19:03:46 2002 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] determining length of an MP3 Message-ID: I'm trying to write a small script to determine the length (time) of an MP3. mpg123 displays the time after it's done, but I can't pipe that text to anything and strip it out. There's a mathmatical calculation I could do by dividing size/bitrate, but I can't determine the bit rate cleanly from the file. Any ideas on how to do this? -Brian From ben_b at ppdonline.com Fri Jul 26 19:56:05 2002 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] determining length of an MP3 References: Message-ID: <3D41F6E8.ACDC92F@ppdonline.com> Assuming it's not a variable bit rate mp3 you can strip the bitrate out of the header and then do the math, just use low level file IO in C (or some less useful language ;-), the actual file format should be available somewhere on the net so you'll know how to parse it. Later, Ben. From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Jul 26 20:30:55 2002 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone had any luck with RH7.3 and an HPT374? Message-ID: <3D42027B.797A4167@dccmn.com> Anyone had any luck with RH7.3 and an HPT374? We've had some luck with RH7.1 and the driver from the Highpoint site, but haven't been able to get 7.3 to load. Any have any suggestions, tips, issues? TIA. From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Jul 26 20:51:38 2002 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Committee Idea References: Message-ID: <3D42079B.8C9763A7@dccmn.com> I just had a meeting with our Victory Neighborhood Association web committee. I think I sold them on the idea of using Linux for their web project. I've also been working with a friend in setting up a computer network for Prism, a service organization (food bank, elderly services, etc.) im Robbinsdale. There we had some discussions of a cooperative database with other such organizations via Linux as a VPN gateway. In addition, my Wife & Daughter's school is also actively using Linux for networking services. All these organizations are very interested in doing more with Linux, but has a need to learn more, as well as acquire a base of linux literate volunteers. I would also like to be involved in this sort of project, to try and get a bit of synergy from such an organization. If nothing else, to set up a set of seminars/presentation on using Linux in a Non-profit. Kjell Stenberg wrote: > > I'd like to take this thread in a slightly different direction for a moment- but > a related direction. > > I will be leaving my current job as Technology Strategist for a master degree > program starting in Sept. And I was thinking about creating a volunteer > technology strategy committee made up of computer-wise/socially conscious > strategists who are interested in 1) promoting cool technology solutions and 2) > protecting the environment/contributing to humanistic causes. > > This is still in idea form- but what would it be like to serve several times a > year on a committee to lead one or many grassroots organizations in the > deployment of cutting edge technology solutions that ultimately result in policy > change that benefits mankind? > > In terms of networking, you'd get a chance to meet many Executive Directors of > non-profits as well as other gurus from around the Twin Cities. In terms of > resume building, it'd separate your resume from the crowd to have volunteer > experience that really let you sink your chops into technology deployment and > policy change. And in terms of all of the new and emerging technologies out > there, you'd have the opportunity to work on/review projects thereby giving you > experience at the development/ maintenance/ implementation/ administration/ > evaluation levels. > > And then, in the open source community arena, there is the opportunity to create > this as a case study of how the Linux community is leading the revolution of > social and environmental change. Everything "on the leading edge" about this. > > Thoughts? Interests? Feedback? I'm quite serious about this committee and I'd > like to have it in embryonic form by the end of August. > > All feedback is welcome. > > Kjell Stenberg > Technology Strategist > Minnesotans for an Energy-Efficient Economy > stenberg@me3.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:28 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Jobs > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:08:05AM -0500, BN wrote: > > > >I saw one that wanted 5 years of .NET experience. Also, back in 1999, > >there was a posting that wanted 7 years of Java experience. > > Sounds like a broken HR department if you ask me. Call them about the job > and inform them that thier requirements are not likely to be met because > the skill they require didn't exist 5 years ago. It's be interesting to > know how they reacted when recieving that little nugget of information. > > Also I can't stress enough the importance of "Networking" when looking for > work. (No not IP networking, people networking) It's important for us dorks > to get out, get some sunlight once in a while and get to know some people, > at some point if you're mingling in the right circles and can sell yourself > you'll get lucky. I can assure you that staying indoors and not going to > LUG meetings, trade shows etc is not going to net you many offers. > > In fact, I got my current job by introducing myself to the sistina founder > at a LUG meeting and asked him to keep me in mind for a sysadmin job. > > -- > Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ > Sistina Software Inc. | > > "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you > hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Jul 26 20:52:11 2002 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools References: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com> Message-ID: <3D420498.3D400636@dccmn.com> Beginning of $.02 I've used ANT and make for our products. Contrary to the hype, I don't think ANT is any easier to use than make, and with the added versatility of make, IMHO go with make. If anyone tells you that the XML in ant is easier to code because it doesn't have all those tabs, their full of it. CVS, make, and rsh for multi-platform products. Throw in some perl for those real tough source translation stuff (like converting a C++ header file with build info into a java module). End of $.02 "bfriedman@excite.com" wrote: > > I am in the process of setting up some QA tools for a small company > (10-15 developers). > > I have already installed CVS on a redhat box. > > I wanted to ask for list input on a couple of things: > 1. Has anyone used Bugzilla for external (client) bug tracking? Or > just Bugzilla in general? If so, how well does it work for you, and do > you have any problems with it? > 2. I have previously used Rational products (as a user, not admin), > including their build tool. Rational is a bit over the budget for my > shop ;) I am considering using Ant to track Visual C++ and > miscellaneous files. Has anyone used Ant (or another open source build > tool) in combination with version control? Any comments on Ant or > other tools? I am looking for something that isn't a beast to admin. > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Brent Friedman > > "I am looking for a man with six fingers on his left hand." > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Jul 26 21:13:49 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] determining length of an MP3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Brian wrote: > I'm trying to write a small script to determine the length (time) of an > MP3. mpg123 displays the time after it's done, but I can't pipe that text > to anything and strip it out. There's a mathmatical calculation I could > do by dividing size/bitrate, but I can't determine the bit rate cleanly > from the file. Any ideas on how to do this? I'd use mp3info: $ mp3info -f "%m %s" example.mp3 3 35 Or if you just want seconds: $ mp3info -f "%S" example.mp3 215 You can format it however you like, it seems rather flexible. Jima From phil at rephil.org Fri Jul 26 23:17:19 2002 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list digest, Vol 1 #2269 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: <200207261107.g6QB7BM18644@sprite.real-time.com> References: <200207261107.g6QB7BM18644@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020726143522.GA1714@rephil.org> On Fri, 26-Jul-2002 at 06:07:11AM -0500, tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org wrote: > I've had fun with it too. Has anyone seen a nice summary of the sorts of > compiler optimizations that people are using with Gentoo? I'm not a C > hacker so I don't understand all the various gcc options. > > Right now I've got mine set as: > > Pentium Pro/Pentium II/Pentium III+/Pentium 4/Athlon exclusive > (binaries > # will use the P6 instruction set and only run on P6+ systems) > CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu" > CFLAGS="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" > CXXFLAGS="-march=i686 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" > > I think these are fairly conservative. Not terribly helpful, but you can set -O to -O6. Last I checked, gcc doesn't get more than -02 optimizing anyway, but will go to maximum of which it is capable. Phil -- www.rephil.org / University of Minnesota "To misattribute a quote is unforgivable" -- Anoymous From dante at plethora.net Fri Jul 26 23:26:39 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69437@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Ryan Ware wrote: > What if they already have windows clients? "We'll just put linux on > your computer, here ya go enduser." > If they are end-users why should they have to care about the OS? I think that it is totally unfair that computer _users_ need to worry about administering their own boxes and as such the OS they have matters. If the Interface follows the rules they have learned, why should the OS matter? -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From dante at plethora.net Fri Jul 26 23:44:15 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69456@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Ryan Ware wrote: > Not my intention to be a troll, I am just pointing out a few things > I notice. I guess they are less than appreciated though. I guess I > have just grown tired of seeing Linux proposed everywhere whether or > not it is a good fit. Just for the record, I have Unix, Linux and > Windows servers and the *nix doesn't require as much of my time. > It is a natural response to "Windows everywhere". Waddya expect on a Linux list? Discussions of how we might fit VMS or MacOS into a particular solution? I expect that if someone asks a question about a given application on the LUG list they want to hear at least some opinions on Linux-based solutions that might work. -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From blutgens at sistina.com Sat Jul 27 00:01:28 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69455@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69455@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20020726152457.GC2096@sistina.com> On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 06:20:10AM -0500, Ryan Ware wrote: >Shoddy end user software... Currently a lot of end user programs in >KDE, or GNOME are broken and segfault regularly, far more than >Windows counter parts. Two that come to mind for me are GNUCash, >and Moneydance. I can't remember the last time Quicken crashed on >me. Windows does not have a monopoly on crashing. Then go back to windows and shut the hell up. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [SMTP:chrome@real-time.com] >> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 7:38 PM >> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] what makes *nix zealots >> >> >> >> I personally hate shoddy software because as an >> administrator, it >> makes my life difficult. people who use shoddy software (read: >> most end >> users) often will make your life difficult and waste your time, >> because >> they make the problems caused by bad software to be *your* >> problem. So even >> if I don't use it myself, I still have it inflicted on me by >> shortsighted >> and ignorant people. >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020727/3de5ba70/attachment.pgp From blutgens at sistina.com Sat Jul 27 00:02:04 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69456@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69456@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20020726152824.GD2096@sistina.com> On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 06:30:24AM -0500, Ryan Ware wrote: > >Just like most of you I don't like Microsoft's direction, but we >have Windows clients. Sure I could run Samba to get a few more >Linux boxes in place, but then I am setting myself up for Microsoft >service packs that break Samba for the clients and then having to >wait for the Samba project to work around it. "sorry user, I'll >have you back to your files real soon now." Sound like operator head-space-timing (a.k.a. PEBKAC) I've been using samba in a production environ for almost 3 years with out a single "sorry user, I'll have you back to your files real soon now." Maybe you're just a dumbass. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020727/ce3499a4/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Jul 27 02:47:37 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com>; from RWare@INTERPLASTIC.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:51:12AM -0500 References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20020724120537.Y1270@techmonkeys.org> On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:51:12AM -0500, Ryan Ware wrote: [snip] > There is no "best" anything, there is "more" and "less" suitable for > the task at hand. Linux is really only a free version of Unix, it > doesn't scale on up as Unix will, isn't as stable, fault tolerant > (yet or maybe ever) as most Unixes. All it is, is cheaper, and it > will run on commodity hardware. Step away from the alter of Linux > long enough to realize this. WTF is it about *nix that creates > zealots. I have never met anyone in the Microsoft camp that is a > zealot about Microsoft to the extent that some members of the *nix > camp are zealots about *nix. That's generally because people who strive to be "windows admins"/MCSE's are clueless morons with a piece of paper, I do know _one_ guy that's got an MCSE that's rather intelligent, but he refuses to put it on his resume (and only got it because the company he was working for paid for it, along with the time off to work on it). Joe blow hears you can make money in the tech industry, joe blow sees commercial on TV for XYZ school that can make you money fast! joe blow gets a piece of paper then goes on to waste money at a company that's running windows, because it's the only thing halfway idiot proof enough for joe blow to run. Joe blow can reboot, format, and reinstall windows when there's a problem. You'll find 'zealots' everywhere, there are MacOS zealots (and rightly so, it's a good OS for a lot of people), there are BeOS zealots (again, a great OS, it just never caught on) and Linux/*BSD/Solaris/etc zealots, 99% of the time they're all being 'zealots' about people who continue to use the garbage that microsoft to pump out, and charge more and more for. It's hard to not get worked up when you're watching someone do something that's obviously stupid, when there ARE alternatives that work _just as well_, while being secure. Who ever said that E-Mail client = Calendar Client? There's tons of wonderful free calendar programs out there that _do_ hotsync with PDA's, there is also a plethora of good email programs out there that aren't virus factories. Some day they'll be held accountable for what they do, if you haven't noticed there's a new email virus out there for WebTV (microsoft bought them) it makes the unit drop the connection to the net, and repeatedly dial 911. If that's not an attact on the infrastructure of our country, and a threat to our country (communications systems), i don't know what is. (images of a few million webtv units war dialing floats through my head) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From list at slushpupie.com Sat Jul 27 02:48:34 2002 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> Message-ID: <200207241203.48339.list@slushpupie.com> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 11:08 am, anID10T wrote: > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? > > Maybe remove the sendamil from my red hat and set up Qmail for a mail > server... and, wasn't there a TCLUG meeting featuring qmail some time ago? Take a look at postfix as well. Qmail and Postfix compete with eachother.. each has its own strong points (both are MUCH better than sendmail, in my oppinion). I have used both and found postfix easier to administer, in part because config changes can be made on the fly. RedHat 7.3 has postfix packages (there are unofficial ones for previous versions of RedHat). Jay From rpgoldman at real-time.com Sat Jul 27 02:57:00 2002 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> Message-ID: <15678.56960.463406.839315@tsathoggua.mydomain> anID10T writes: > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? > > Maybe remove the sendamil from my red hat and set up Qmail for a > mail server... and, wasn't there a TCLUG meeting featuring qmail > some time ago? Not to start a religious war, but qmail just seems odd and cranky. You seem to have to buy into a whole world view with it. Postfix seems much more in the standard unix world (files go in normal places, etc.). I just changed to postfix because Mandrake did, but I'm pretty happy. Sendmail is just a nightmare (for a small LAN operator), and the black art is so deep and thick... Perhaps a real qmail fan will step up to the plate... From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Sat Jul 27 03:04:52 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TROLL! Stop this thread before it starts please (was "Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!!") Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6943B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Nor is windows, solaris, hp-ux, aix, mac, ps2 (well maybe ps2 is :)) I didn't mean to start a flame fest. I hope I made some valid points and caused some self examination. A broader point is that to be taken seriously we should not denigrate the OS's and products of others. For the record I admin, windows, linux and solaris. Yes the linux and solaris take less of my time because they are more reliable, on the other hand, most of the functionality that our users notice or like come from the windows servers and cannot be easily replaced by another OS. > It is fairly obvious to all here what Ryan's opinion is, Linux > isn't > the solution for all problems. From cgahlon at citilink.com Sat Jul 27 03:12:06 2002 From: cgahlon at citilink.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A69436@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <200207241218.20105.cgahlon@citilink.com> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 10:51 am, Ryan Ware wrote: > Deja Vu???? Bite the bullet, Exchange is alright. And remember, > THERE IS NO OPEN SOURCE REPLACEMENT WITH THE FUNCTIONALITY OF > EXCHANGE. If you gotta have Unix look at Notes. And I am pretty > sure the CEO didn't call it "outpuke". The variants M$, Micro$oft, > Microborg, Lookout, Outpuke, etc... make Linux users/advocates look > like zealots. > > Grow up. Join the workforce, realize that he who pays the bills > makes the rules. Thank you for the very informative help. That's the most useful information I've received yet on the subject. I guess I have no alternative but to grow up and un-subscribe myself from the tclug-list since every subscriber except 1 is a *nix zealot. I guess I'll just go join a windows mailing list somewhere... At least I won't get my head bit off every time I ask for help. Sheesh... Ciao all! It was nice lurking... Chris From jiml at visi.com Sat Jul 27 07:19:03 2002 From: jiml at visi.com (James Louis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <20020726152824.GD2096@sistina.com> Message-ID: Yea. You go Ben! :-) -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:28 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 06:30:24AM -0500, Ryan Ware wrote: > >Just like most of you I don't like Microsoft's direction, but we >have Windows clients. Sure I could run Samba to get a few more >Linux boxes in place, but then I am setting myself up for Microsoft >service packs that break Samba for the clients and then having to >wait for the Samba project to work around it. "sorry user, I'll >have you back to your files real soon now." Sound like operator head-space-timing (a.k.a. PEBKAC) I've been using samba in a production environ for almost 3 years with out a single "sorry user, I'll have you back to your files real soon now." Maybe you're just a dumbass. -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin From pcbuilder at mnpctech.com Sat Jul 27 07:56:03 2002 From: pcbuilder at mnpctech.com (mn pctech) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] newbie introduction Message-ID: <20020727133709.82319.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I was encoruaged to join this list by another member that thought some of you may be interested in what I do. I live in Mpls and customize PCs/Cases as a private business. I just posted one of my recent projects for sale in the Linux.org hardware classifieds. One of custom PCs will be published in Maximum PC Magazine sometime this year. Besides custom work which people commision me to do, I also stock and sell performance add-ons and premium brand cases like Addtronics, Chenbro and Lite-On. I believe that what I do with hardware ties into what you do. Glad to be here. Bill Owen http://www.mnpctech.com ===== The days of the Beige box are over... http://www.mnpctech.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Sat Jul 27 09:10:22 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! Message-ID: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6946D@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Lutgens [mailto:blutgens@sistina.com] > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:28 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! > > Sound like operator head-space-timing (a.k.a. PEBKAC) I've > been using samba > in a production environ for almost 3 years with out a single > "sorry user, > I'll have you back to your files real soon now." Ben someone that implements this as a solution told me this has happened, but it is rare. The person is someone that hangs out here and offers a lot of good info. I'll leave it at that. > > Maybe you're just a dumbass. > > Pretty harsh, you don't know me. I'll try to toe the partyline though. From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sat Jul 27 09:15:00 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <15678.56960.463406.839315@tsathoggua.mydomain> References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> <15678.56960.463406.839315@tsathoggua.mydomain> Message-ID: <02072709540500.22652@nancy> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 12:06, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > anID10T writes: > > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? > > > > Maybe remove the sendamil from my red hat and set up Qmail for a > > mail server... and, wasn't there a TCLUG meeting featuring qmail > > some time ago? > > Not to start a religious war, but qmail just seems odd and cranky. > You seem to have to buy into a whole world view with it. > > Postfix seems much more in the standard unix world (files go in normal > places, etc.). > > I just changed to postfix because Mandrake did, but I'm pretty happy. > Sendmail is just a nightmare (for a small LAN operator), and the black > art is so deep and thick... > Exim is fun to set up, and easy to admin. You can even use GUI tools if you are a GUI person. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sat Jul 27 09:23:02 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TROLL! Stop this thread before it starts please (was "Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!!") In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6943B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6943B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <02072710060001.22652@nancy> On Wednesday 24 July 2002 12:09, Ryan Ware wrote: > Nor is windows, solaris, hp-ux, aix, mac, ps2 (well maybe > ps2 is :)) I didn't mean to start a flame fest. I hope I made > some valid points and caused some self examination. A broader point > is that to be taken seriously we should not denigrate the OS's and > products of others. For the record I admin, windows, linux and > solaris. Yes the linux and solaris take less of my time because > they are more reliable, on the other hand, most of the functionality > that our users notice or like come from the windows servers and > cannot be easily replaced by another OS. > > > It is fairly obvious to all here what Ryan's opinion is, Linux > > isn't > > the solution for all problems. > Yes and apparently MS-IIS is where it is at for web server software: The site www.interplastic.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4/Windows 98. I was also wondering if any calendaring software exists besides Outlook / Exchange, but guess none exists because they are not exactly the same as Outlook/Exchange. I think the original question was about alternatives, not about if people on a linux user group mailing list should censor Linux solutions to a need. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From m68kprogrammer at icqmail.com Sat Jul 27 09:53:51 2002 From: m68kprogrammer at icqmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X Message-ID: <20020727153328.18490.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to use MacOS X? I've been a Mac user for most of my life, and would like to know if anyone here has any feedback about it. --Matt Waters's Infinite Wisdom #18: "Firecrackers, gasoline, and bored youth do not mix." New wisdom every week! ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html From churchid at visi.com Sat Jul 27 10:04:04 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> I guess it was obvious that this is how this thread would end up after the first post. Still, I am disappointed and disgusted by the fact that it actually dipped to the low of one person calling the other a dumb ass, followed by someone else showing enthusiastic support for it. For the record, I thought that Ryan brought up some valid points. It's obvious though, that too many of the people on this list are too far gone to acknowledge them. What Linux users fail to acknowledge in too many cases is that part of the reason Microsoft products "cause" such problems is a result of the product being designed for _users_ who *don't* "worry about administering their own boxes". If they weren't so popular in the first place, there wouldn't be so many people trying to maliciously target them. To further that logic, if a comparable Unix app was to replace a Windows app at that level of popularity (and thus scrutiny), it would likely have just as many errors, just as many exploits. Why are the mistakes made by Linux developers any less severe? Mostly because there aren't as many clueless users to propagate the exploits. Frankly, before Microsoft had such problems with OS vulnerabilities, the default installations of virtually no Linux platform were secure (for example, a telnet port accepting connections in a default setup used to be done all the time in many, if not all, the popular distributions). After Microsoft had security problems, it then became a more commonly-known fact that security is an issue. Then, and only then, did the Linux distros really start to worry about secure setups in their installations. And the result is a system that is unquestionably more secure, *and* more difficult to setup and maintain. Let's face the facts - Microsoft releases fixes for mistakes they've made and Linux developers release fixes for mistakes they've made. And sure, some of the mistakes Microsoft have made are the result of poor decision-making, particularly regarding security issues. However The fact remains that the world has yet to see an absolutely *perfect* piece of software released by anyone, anywhere, for any operating system. The closest thing would be the software that controls such things as airplanes or nuclear reactors - and if you thought Microsoft was expensive, you don't even want to think about the expense to verify and certify the code in these types of installations. Fortunately, that level of perfection is not necessary for the vast majority of users, which is why Microsoft has done so well despite the problems it does have. The fact remains that the average user doesn't really care all that much about whether they have to reboot the computer once a day, week, or month. Someday, if the Linux snobs of the world don't wake up and consider that Microsoft might be able to address its issues effectively in future releases, they are going to find themselves wondering how Windows got so good while Linux went nowhere. Fortunately (and unfortunately in the sense that the snobs of the Linux world will continue to delude themselves) Linux is not likely to fall behind, because not all of the Linux community has placed themselves in a Linux bubble and isolated themselves from everything Windows. Good day, Dan Churchill On Saturday 27 July 2002 07:38 am, James Louis wrote: > Yea. You go Ben! :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:28 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 06:30:24AM -0500, Ryan Ware wrote: > >Just like most of you I don't like Microsoft's direction, but we > >have Windows clients. Sure I could run Samba to get a few more > >Linux boxes in place, but then I am setting myself up for Microsoft > >service packs that break Samba for the clients and then having to > >wait for the Samba project to work around it. "sorry user, I'll > >have you back to your files real soon now." > > Sound like operator head-space-timing (a.k.a. PEBKAC) I've been using > samba in a production environ for almost 3 years with out a single > "sorry user, I'll have you back to your files real soon now." > > Maybe you're just a dumbass. From churchid at visi.com Sat Jul 27 10:04:28 2002 From: churchid at visi.com (Daniel Churchill) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02072710420501.01405@nat4.dc.dan> On Friday 26 July 2002 09:49 am, Daniel Taylor wrote: > If they are end-users why should they have to care about the OS? > > I think that it is totally unfair that computer _users_ need > to worry about administering their own boxes and as such the > OS they have matters. It doesn't much matter what you think or do not think is fair. The fact of the matter is that there are millions of end users in the world who are using computers in a small work environment and/or at home, where there is not the benefit of a full or part-time system administrator (professional or otherwise) to do their administering for them. Those people have to do it themselves, and such being the case, they have to worry about the OS. > If the Interface follows the rules they have learned, why should the OS > matter? Ideally, an OS would be like a car. All cars have the same basic interfaces, which work in basically the same way. The frills may work differently, but are generally self-explanatory. Operating systems have not reached this level except for the most basic tasks, such as launching an application. For example, if you have to install software on a machine, it is in most cases significantly different between Windows, MacOS, and *nix. There are exceptions to this. The install for StarOffice on Linux is much the same as for Windows, and the issues that would be considered by a "real" administrator are generally explained onscreen, so that any user with an intelligence greater than 3 can make an informed decision that applies to his/her situation. You are mostly right that if the user interface follows the rules they have learned, the OS shouldn't matter. My point is that the user interfaces of the various consumer operating systems are not, nor does it seem likely that they ever will be, written to a standard such that installation, configuration, and day to day use are all done in a specific way. Indeed, using computers would become very boring if they ever did. Respectfully, Dan Churchill From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jul 27 10:45:13 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] My comments on trolls and zealots: forged smtp headers Message-ID: <20020727112146.D415@real-time.com> I normally twit trolling and zealotry threads. When I see what I think is a troll or zealot behavior I contact people privately. I've done that very often this week. I try to explain both sides of the story and ask people to just ignore the troll or understand the passion that people have for linux which can lead to zelotry. -BUT- When people forge smtp headers to flame someone that is just wrong. If you are going to flame, be a man (or women) and don't hide behind a forged From:, From header. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Sat Jul 27 11:13:25 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X Message-ID: <7da2daaf06040407d2@[172.29.97.10]> It is very nice, my wife has the imac with the dvd burner. It is very nice. I had not touched a mac since 7.5. She wanted a computer to take movies off our camcorder and turn them into dvd's. It looked like the mac was very suitable, and so far it has worked great. The user interface is nice. If you are worried about having to use a command line, don't. Everything works like before, the plus is, if you want more power to automate some things, whatever, you can learn the unix underneath at your own pace. Highly recommended. > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Waters [SMTP:m68kprogrammer@icqmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:33 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X > > Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to use MacOS X? I've been > a Mac user for most of my life, and would like to know if anyone > here has any feedback about it. > > --Matt Waters's Infinite Wisdom #18: "Firecrackers, > gasoline, and bored youth do not mix." > > New wisdom every week! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joelr at ellegon.com Sat Jul 27 11:42:21 2002 From: joelr at ellegon.com (Joel Rosenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> References: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <1027790577.10121.6.camel@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> On Sat, 2002-07-27 at 10:41, Daniel Churchill wrote: > I guess it was obvious that this is how this thread would end up after the > first post. Still, I am disappointed and disgusted by the fact that it > actually dipped to the low of one person calling the other a dumb ass, > followed by someone else showing enthusiastic support for it. > > For the record, I thought that Ryan brought up some valid points. It's > obvious though, that too many of the people on this list are too far gone > to acknowledge them. > > What Linux users fail to acknowledge in too many cases is that part of the > reason Microsoft products "cause" such problems is a result of the product > being designed for _users_ who *don't* "worry about administering their > own boxes". But, of course, somebody has to, which is why the popularity of pre-installed systems and restore disks. While, in theory, various forms of Windows can easily be installed in a wide variety of systems, there's often some hardware issue that needs to be tweaked, and the manufacturers get around that by tweaking once, and deploying many times. > If they weren't so popular in the first place, there wouldn't > be so many people trying to maliciously target them. True. To further that > logic, if a comparable Unix app was to replace a Windows app at that level > of popularity (and thus scrutiny), it would likely have just as many > errors, just as many exploits. Nah. Exploits are proportional both to the attention given and the vulnerability, not just the attention. Why are the mistakes made by Linux > developers any less severe? Mostly because there aren't as many clueless > users to propagate the exploits. And because of the large open source community, portions of which spend a lot of time finding exploits, and a mechanism for distributing both the nature of the problems and fixes very quickly. From dante at plethora.net Sat Jul 27 11:42:44 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <02072710420501.01405@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: Note: I'm fuzzy and disjointed at the moment. I'm sure I ramble a bit below. TIA for your patience. On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Daniel Churchill wrote: > On Friday 26 July 2002 09:49 am, Daniel Taylor wrote: > > If they are end-users why should they have to care about the OS? > > > > I think that it is totally unfair that computer _users_ need > > to worry about administering their own boxes and as such the > > OS they have matters. > > It doesn't much matter what you think or do not think is fair. The fact > of the matter is that there are millions of end users in the world who are > using computers in a small work environment and/or at home, where there is > not the benefit of a full or part-time system administrator (professional > or otherwise) to do their administering for them. Those people have to do > it themselves, and such being the case, they have to worry about the OS. On the contrary, what we _all_ think is fair matters. What is fair provides a target, something to aim for when the world (as usual) is unfair. > > > If the Interface follows the rules they have learned, why should the OS > > matter? > > Ideally, an OS would be like a car. All cars have the same basic > interfaces, which work in basically the same way. The frills may work > differently, but are generally self-explanatory. > [snippage of coherent explanation of point] I believe that it is possible to have a system that is "close enough" (as in RH driver vs. LH driver or manual trans vs. automatic). Note what most people do when they want/need a modification to their car: they take it to someone who is trained in doing such things. Free installation with $100 of software? It would work for laptops, not so well with bulky systems. Can you change the oil in your car yourself? Do you? What about tune-ups? Why do you think Geek Squad is so successful? -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com Sat Jul 27 11:52:44 2002 From: mikeflaherty at mn.rr.com (Michael J Flaherty) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X In-Reply-To: <7da2daaf06040407d2@[172.29.97.10]> References: <7da2daaf06040407d2@[172.29.97.10]> Message-ID: <200207271230.44667.mikeflaherty@mn.rr.com> On Saturday 27 July 2002 11:28, Ryan Ware wrote: , > you can learn the unix underneath at your own pace. Highly > recommended. > Seconded, but it's pretty slow on anything less than a G3 400 MHz. From dd-b at dd-b.net Sat Jul 27 11:57:54 2002 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? In-Reply-To: <15678.56960.463406.839315@tsathoggua.mydomain> References: <003201c2332c$67223d70$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> <15678.56960.463406.839315@tsathoggua.mydomain> Message-ID: rpgoldman@real-time.com writes: > anID10T writes: > > any thoughts about Qmail? or better, Qmail and Red Hat 7.x ? > > > > Maybe remove the sendamil from my red hat and set up Qmail for a > > mail server... and, wasn't there a TCLUG meeting featuring qmail > > some time ago? > > Not to start a religious war, but qmail just seems odd and cranky. > You seem to have to buy into a whole world view with it. Yes, if you're used to sendmail I can imagine it being quite a jolt. I was never used to sendmail, so it wasn't like that for me. > Postfix seems much more in the standard unix world (files go in normal > places, etc.). Yes, being very sendmail-like was part of the goal, as I understand it, when Postfix was developed. (Without the bad parts, of course :-)). > Perhaps a real qmail fan will step up to the plate... I can't claim religious zealot status I'm afraid. I've been running qmail since version 0.75, or some such, though. It works well for me. I *strongly* approve of the small amount of code and the careful partitioning of functions into separate non-trusting pieces; that's your basic good security architecture, after all. Qmail has been there longer, and is considerably less code than Postfix, and therefore probably has fewer bugs and fewer security bugs, but Postfix has a good enough history that this doesn't seem like a huge deal in practice. Qmail is also *very* flexible. In some senses it's a mail server construction kit. People do all sorts of huge things with it, putting their own extra pieces in in particular places. This does mean that there's rarely one "right" way to do anything interesting. It means that you get to choose your particular favorite way to do things instead. Rather like Perl in that regard :-). -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info From blutgens at sistina.com Sat Jul 27 12:13:30 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Sys Admin In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888211@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> References: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888211@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: <20020727175359.GA4873@sistina.com> On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 02:11:16PM -0500, Austad, Jay wrote: >> Some may even get pizza... > >We got Chipotle and a huge "Happy Sysadmin Day" cake. Yum. Yeah, apparently my co-workers brought in SA Day Cupcakes, but since I didn't go in yesterday they ate them without me ;-) > >No piles of cash or shiny cars though. Maybe next year... sigh... >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020727/fa03fe0c/attachment.pgp From dsherman at real-time.com Sat Jul 27 12:19:35 2002 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X In-Reply-To: <20020727153328.18490.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> References: <20020727153328.18490.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <1027792870.6323.10.camel@dedannshae> On Sat, 2002-07-27 at 10:33, Matt Waters wrote: > Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to use MacOS X? I've been a Mac user for most of my life, and would like to know if anyone here has any feedback about it. > > --Matt Waters I just bought my wife an eMac (entry-level iMac, without the expensive flat panel display) a week ago, and spent last Saturday setting it up, making sure it could access my Samba server shares, and downloading extra applications she needed. Although I had not used a Mac since OS 7.3, I found it to be just as easy to figure out as it was eight years ago. The GUI is beautiful. Up until now, I had only seen screenshots, and I thought it was ok-looking. But now, I find myself getting envious seeing her work on such a gorgeous desktop, while my Gnome desktop (with which I had been quite happy) is looking rather bland. For her, this has been a perfect purchase, to replace an aging and unstable Win98SE box. For me, it was a good experience setting up Mac networking and seeing how easy it was to integrate into my home LAN. Plus, I have a new impetus to start experimenting with other desktops and/or window managers :-) -- Dave Sherman Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, MCSE, MCSA, CCNA for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020727/98c6a4ef/attachment.pgp From RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com Sat Jul 27 12:20:09 2002 From: RWare at INTERPLASTIC.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] TROLL! Stop this thread before it starts please (was"Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!!") Message-ID: <7d915e1f06023707d2@[172.29.97.10]> > > Yes and apparently MS-IIS is where it is at for web server software: > > The site www.interplastic.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on > NT4/Windows 98. not necessarily check work.interplastic.com From tanner at real-time.com Sat Jul 27 12:20:43 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Build tools/qa tools In-Reply-To: <3D420498.3D400636@dccmn.com>; from waynej@dccmn.com on Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 09:25:28PM -0500 References: <20020725162145.18488E5B3@xprdmailfe28.nwk.excite.com> <3D420498.3D400636@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <20020727111458.C415@real-time.com> Quoting Wayne Johnson (waynej@dccmn.com): > I've used ANT and make for our products. Contrary to the hype, I don't > think ANT is any easier to use than make, and with the added versatility > of make, IMHO go with make. I'll counter this to say ant is more flexiable then make, at least in the java world. > If anyone tells you that the XML in ant is easier to code because it > doesn't have all those tabs, their full of it. The build.xml files aren't easy to make (nor is sendmail.cf!), but once you get use to it it's not all that bad. My biggest reason for ant (in the java world) is that it's magnitudes faster then make. > CVS, make, and rsh for multi-platform products. Throw in some perl for ^^^ No! ssh, please! -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Jul 27 14:34:53 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: TROLL! Stop this thread before it starts please (was "Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!!") In-Reply-To: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6943B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <8794B3B640FED2118D8600C00D0020A501A6943B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <1027800331.22803.3.camel@runabout> On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 12:09, Ryan Ware wrote: > products of others. For the record I admin, windows, linux and > solaris. Yes the linux and solaris take less of my time because > they are more reliable, on the other hand, most of the functionality Cute, 'I admin therefore I am somehow special.' I'm somehow not impressed. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From sulrich at botwerks.org Sat Jul 27 15:26:31 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> References: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020727154544.C23054@botwerks.org> how dare you bring reasonable points into this discussion? when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), Daniel Churchill was madly tapping out: > { snipped - misc previous correspondence - all of it quite good } > Someday, if the Linux snobs of the world don't wake up and consider > that Microsoft might be able to address its issues effectively in > future releases, they are going to find themselves wondering how > Windows got so good while Linux went nowhere. Fortunately (and > unfortunately in the sense that the snobs of the Linux world will > continue to delude themselves) Linux is not likely to fall behind, > because not all of the Linux community has placed themselves in a > Linux bubble and isolated themselves from everything Windows. it bears pointing out that MS has made a very public bruhaha regarding their newfound commitment to software stability and improvements in security. the last time they did this they had a second rate web browser and nary a clue regarding what folks wanted from a server application perspective. anyone care to objectively notice that they have the browser market dominated and that within corporations their tools are more often than not the platform of choice for much development? do folks really think that they won't fix many of their more obvious gaffes and retain the mindshare of corporate IT departments the world over? if the kids that expended their efforts calling folks dumbass, and cheerleading such activities, were to channel that energy into effective evangelism it might leave corporations with a better taste in their mouths regarding linux and the other free OSs as well as the open source development model in general. instead, in many cases, they seem to associate it with whiny name-calling kids with questionable personal hygiene. compare that with their polished MS rep and their ability to schmooze the parties with the pocketbook and you'll get a taste of how things eventually end up working out. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From sulrich at botwerks.org Sat Jul 27 16:01:02 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X In-Reply-To: <20020727153328.18490.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> References: <20020727153328.18490.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <20020727161652.E23054@botwerks.org> highly recommened! it's a great OS. in the current incarnation it's freebsd 4.2 for the unix layer (mach kernel underneath). a lot of stuff builds right out of the box. i made the "switch" to OS X back in february on my work laptop from triboot linux/fbsd/win2k i got sick of having to reboot to win2k to edit large word/excel documents. i've reached my holy grail - a unix box with a real office implementation and a nice interface (i'm still grappling with how much i like aqua or not) with really good development tools. 98% of the unix functionality that i want (it ships with some old curses libs and some oddities in the compiler but most folks won't notice that). the enterprising user can replace the parts under the hood with the work that's being done on the darwin side of things and there's a flourishing freeware and shareware community. apple did a really good job with shipping the components that people expect to find on the unix side of things. a really good emacs port, include files in reasonable locations (really well done here) and other stuff. on the user space side of things they ship a lot of nice stuff. hell, fetchmail and procmail were in the default installation. this shocked me. fink makes getting your fix of other tools and newer libraries a snap and the folks doing XonX have been churning out really good code. there are some rough spots. i've alluded to the fact that some of the libraries are a bit dated, not all of the elements that it would be nice to have documented have been documented and/or put into the darwin side of things. notable amongst this are some of the driver elements. (i'd like to know how they're interacting with the wireless hardware) i'm still not happy with the integration of netinfo (a NeXTism) and the rest of the authentication world. printing has some real oddities associated with it (this will be addressed with the introduction of CUPS in OS X 10.2) the release notes are skimpy on details regarding what they're touching under the hood. the terminal application leaves me itching for xterms in a big way and sometimes the wireless authentication and the driver interaction can be interesting on the LEAP side of things. i miss having as many keyboard shortcuts as i used to for applications but that seems to be the mac way and since i spend most of my time in terminal it doesn't matter. i bought an iBook to see how well i'd like it figuring that if i didn't really care for it i wouldn't have all that much tied up in it. from a hardware perspective it's the best laptop i've ever touched and i've used a lot of them. i consistently get 4.5-5 hours of battery life and that's with real work taking place over that time period. i never shut it down i just close the lid and it goes to sleep instantly and comes back to life instantly. it's amazing. when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), Matt Waters was madly tapping out: > Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to use MacOS X? I've been a > Mac user for most of my life, and would like to know if anyone here > has any feedback about it. > > --Matt Waters's Infinite Wisdom #18: "Firecrackers, gasoline, and > bored youth do not mix." > > New wisdom every week! > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From jiml at visi.com Sat Jul 27 16:10:58 2002 From: jiml at visi.com (James Louis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <20020727154544.C23054@botwerks.org> Message-ID: man, can't a guy just have some good ole fun anymore... -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of steve ulrich Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:46 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! how dare you bring reasonable points into this discussion? when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), Daniel Churchill was madly tapping out: > { snipped - misc previous correspondence - all of it quite good } > Someday, if the Linux snobs of the world don't wake up and consider > that Microsoft might be able to address its issues effectively in > future releases, they are going to find themselves wondering how > Windows got so good while Linux went nowhere. Fortunately (and > unfortunately in the sense that the snobs of the Linux world will > continue to delude themselves) Linux is not likely to fall behind, > because not all of the Linux community has placed themselves in a > Linux bubble and isolated themselves from everything Windows. it bears pointing out that MS has made a very public bruhaha regarding their newfound commitment to software stability and improvements in security. the last time they did this they had a second rate web browser and nary a clue regarding what folks wanted from a server application perspective. anyone care to objectively notice that they have the browser market dominated and that within corporations their tools are more often than not the platform of choice for much development? do folks really think that they won't fix many of their more obvious gaffes and retain the mindshare of corporate IT departments the world over? if the kids that expended their efforts calling folks dumbass, and cheerleading such activities, were to channel that energy into effective evangelism it might leave corporations with a better taste in their mouths regarding linux and the other free OSs as well as the open source development model in general. instead, in many cases, they seem to associate it with whiny name-calling kids with questionable personal hygiene. compare that with their polished MS rep and their ability to schmooze the parties with the pocketbook and you'll get a taste of how things eventually end up working out. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From m68kprogrammer at icqmail.com Sat Jul 27 19:37:24 2002 From: m68kprogrammer at icqmail.com (Matt Waters) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X Message-ID: <20020728010133.2703.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> You mentioned some stuff about the lib files being a bit dated. Do you know of any plans to get them up to snuff? BTW, you talked a little bit about the compiler and things associated with it. Once I can scrounge up enough to get a PowerBook G4, I plan to attempt to become a halfway decent programmer for the system, so any feedback on development tools (and any oddities that go along with them) would be appreciated. On Sat, 27 July 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > > > highly recommened! it's a great OS. in the current incarnation it's > freebsd 4.2 for the unix layer (mach kernel underneath). a lot of > stuff builds right out of the box. > > i made the "switch" to OS X back in february on my work laptop from > triboot linux/fbsd/win2k i got sick of having to reboot to win2k to > edit large word/excel documents. > > i've reached my holy grail - a unix box with a real office > implementation and a nice interface (i'm still grappling with how much > i like aqua or not) with really good development tools. 98% of the > unix functionality that i want (it ships with some old curses libs and > some oddities in the compiler but most folks won't notice that). > > the enterprising user can replace the parts under the hood with the > work that's being done on the darwin side of things and there's a > flourishing freeware and shareware community. > > apple did a really good job with shipping the components that people > expect to find on the unix side of things. a really good emacs port, > include files in reasonable locations (really well done here) and > other stuff. on the user space side of things they ship a lot of nice > stuff. hell, fetchmail and procmail were in the default installation. > this shocked me. fink makes getting your fix of other tools and newer > libraries a snap and the folks doing XonX have been churning out > really good code. > > there are some rough spots. i've alluded to the fact that some of the > libraries are a bit dated, not all of the elements that it would be > nice to have documented have been documented and/or put into the > darwin side of things. notable amongst this are some of the driver > elements. (i'd like to know how they're interacting with the wireless > hardware) i'm still not happy with the integration of netinfo (a > NeXTism) and the rest of the authentication world. printing has some > real oddities associated with it (this will be addressed with the > introduction of CUPS in OS X 10.2) the release notes are skimpy on > details regarding what they're touching under the hood. the terminal > application leaves me itching for xterms in a big way and sometimes > the wireless authentication and the driver interaction can be > interesting on the LEAP side of things. i miss having as many > keyboard shortcuts as i used to for applications but that seems to be > the mac way and since i spend most of my time in terminal it doesn't > matter. > > i bought an iBook to see how well i'd like it figuring that if i > didn't really care for it i wouldn't have all that much tied up in it. > from a hardware perspective it's the best laptop i've ever touched and > i've used a lot of them. i consistently get 4.5-5 hours of battery > life and that's with real work taking place over that time period. i > never shut it down i just close the lid and it goes to sleep instantly > and comes back to life instantly. it's amazing. > > > when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), > Matt Waters was madly tapping out: > > Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to use MacOS X? I've been a > > Mac user for most of my life, and would like to know if anyone here > > has any feedback about it. > > > > --Matt Waters's Infinite Wisdom #18: "Firecrackers, gasoline, and > > bored youth do not mix." > > > > New wisdom every week! > > > > -- > steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org > PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --Matt Waters's Infinite Wisdom #18: "Firecrackers, gasoline, and bored youth do not mix." New wisdom every week! ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sat Jul 27 20:03:05 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> References: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <02072720412800.23014@nancy> On Saturday 27 July 2002 10:41, Daniel Churchill wrote: ---Snip rant---- > > Someday, if the Linux snobs of the world don't wake up and consider that > Microsoft might be able to address its issues effectively in future > releases, they are going to find themselves wondering how Windows got so > good while Linux went nowhere. Fortunately (and unfortunately in the > sense that the snobs of the Linux world will continue to delude > themselves) Linux is not likely to fall behind, because not all of the > Linux community has placed themselves in a Linux bubble and isolated > themselves from everything Windows. > > Good day, > Dan Churchill Abandon all hope ye who runs Gnu/Linux for you are all fools for not running Windows while it is still bad. And by submitting patches and feature suggestions to developers of open software (or possibly creating your own project), you are wrecking the "Cathedral" based software base that will someday become better by having no driving factor but larger commercial concerns. Also, if something new is out on the horizon, don't try it, because Microsoft more than likely has the better dumbed down solution for you. Please don't think. Leave that to the people who know better. You can't possibly learn more complex tasks like editing a file. It is far to hard for the likes of you, so please stick to checkboxes in dialogs that were designed by a focus group on what shape the butterfly should be. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sat Jul 27 20:12:59 2002 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <20020727154544.C23054@botwerks.org> References: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> <20020727154544.C23054@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <02072720520901.23014@nancy> On Saturday 27 July 2002 15:45, steve ulrich wrote: > how dare you bring reasonable points into this discussion? > > when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), > Daniel Churchill was madly tapping out: > > > { snipped - misc previous correspondence - all of it quite good } ---Snipped old stuf to trim posts :-) --- > > if the kids that expended their efforts calling folks dumbass, and > cheerleading such activities, were to channel that energy into > effective evangelism it might leave corporations with a better taste > in their mouths regarding linux and the other free OSs as well as the > open source development model in general. > > instead, in many cases, they seem to associate it with whiny > name-calling kids with questionable personal hygiene. compare that > with their polished MS rep and their ability to schmooze the parties > with the pocketbook and you'll get a taste of how things eventually > end up working out. Clean up your act folks. If you don't the companies that implement software based on smell and taste won't like you! I heard somewhere that Bill Gates is not all that hygienic. Kelly Black KB0GBJ From sulrich at botwerks.org Sat Jul 27 21:04:46 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MacOS X In-Reply-To: <20020728010133.2703.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> References: <20020728010133.2703.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <20020727214151.G23054@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), Matt Waters was madly tapping out: > You mentioned some stuff about the lib files being a bit dated. Do > you know of any plans to get them up to snuff? the curses library that ships w/OS X 10.1.x is a tad dated there were some oddities in the way that some of the symbols were exposed on libz and it took me a long time to wrap my mind around some of the things that were going on with libpcap (which turned out to be more of an issue regarding my understanding of how the capture interface was behaving - i.e. stupidity on my part) the pthreads implementation isn't fully baked there isn't full support for all of the pthread_*() functions and some of the associated i/o functions. those are the ones that come to mind readily. it's my understanding that a lot of this has been fixed in the next release of the OS. which i hear is to be based on fbsd 4.4 stable and include all of the niceties associated with this as well as some of the more standard svr4 ipc mechanisms. i've got a list of terminal gripes but that's a function of being spoiled by xterms for so long. the NeXT terminal bugged me in pretty much all of the same ways. the developer tools that apple ships (or you can download from their developer site) are first rate. the only gripe i have with project builder is the lame editor. they don't let you replace it with vim or emacs so you're stuck with a tres lame editor. but since i spend most of my time with make i don't really care about that. i'm particularly keen on the IPv6 support that's to be coming in the new jaguar release. i'm still not sure what their plans are in the multicast domain. > BTW, you talked a little bit about the compiler and things > associated with it. Once I can scrounge up enough to get a PowerBook > G4, I plan to attempt to become a halfway decent programmer for the > system, so any feedback on development tools (and any oddities that > go along with them) would be appreciated. > > On Sat, 27 July 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > > > > > { snipped - misc previous correspondence } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From sulrich at botwerks.org Sat Jul 27 21:22:36 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <02072720520901.23014@nancy> References: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> <20020727154544.C23054@botwerks.org> <02072720520901.23014@nancy> Message-ID: <20020727214921.H23054@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), Kelly Black was madly tapping out: > On Saturday 27 July 2002 15:45, steve ulrich wrote: > > how dare you bring reasonable points into this discussion? > > > > when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Jul 27, 2002), > > Daniel Churchill was madly tapping out: > > > > > > { snipped - misc previous correspondence - all of it quite good } > > ---Snipped old stuf to trim posts :-) --- > > > > if the kids that expended their efforts calling folks dumbass, and > > cheerleading such activities, were to channel that energy into > > effective evangelism it might leave corporations with a better taste > > in their mouths regarding linux and the other free OSs as well as the > > open source development model in general. > > > > instead, in many cases, they seem to associate it with whiny > > name-calling kids with questionable personal hygiene. compare that > > with their polished MS rep and their ability to schmooze the parties > > with the pocketbook and you'll get a taste of how things eventually > > end up working out. > > Clean up your act folks. If you don't the companies that implement > software based on smell and taste won't like you! actually - that's not too far from the truth. a lot of companies buy products based on their comfort level with the representatives that they deal with. if two products are within spitting distance of each other in features, quality and price - the management and purchasing folks are likely going to go with the ones that can present the better business case and provide the relationship that they're comfortable with. in many cases these decisions are mandated by people who can barely boot their pc. sad in many cases, but true. > I heard somewhere that Bill Gates is not all that hygienic. that might be the case - but all of the MS reps that i've ever met with, are pretty damn savvy in the social skills department. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From davisn at mailandnews.com Sun Jul 28 20:05:42 2002 From: davisn at mailandnews.com (Nathan Davis) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat support of ppc? References: <20020726131527.P16720@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3D449D9C.D5AE4716@mailandnews.com> Bob Tanner wrote: > Don't understand this, but rsync last night snarf'd this from the official > mirrors at Redhat: > > linux/redhat/linux/7.1/en/os/ppc > > Anyone hear anything about Redhat support ppc now? > > And WHY on 7.1? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Redhat also supported alpha in 7.1, but has apparently dropped support :-( From joel at joelschneider.net Sun Jul 28 22:20:02 2002 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!! In-Reply-To: <02072710420501.01405@nat4.dc.dan>; from churchid@visi.com on Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 10:42:05AM -0500 References: <02072710420501.01405@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020729010042.A10871@joelschneider.net> On Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 10:42:05AM -0500, Daniel Churchill wrote: > Ideally, an OS would be like a car. "Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut?" - Bob Young, CEO, Red Hat, Inc. See also: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-520393.html?legacy=zdnn Just my $0.02 ... -- Joel Schneider Jazz - jazz88fm.com joel@joelschneider.net ISEE - www.i-see.org From ckhanson at real-time.com Mon Jul 29 08:22:01 2002 From: ckhanson at real-time.com (anID10T) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] how about QMail? References: <200207271726.g6RHQRM10009@sprite.real-time.com> Message-ID: <000c01c23708$b17e36a0$d60a0a0a@fqb0g01> Thanks for all the info - - seemed to take a while for the positive side to surface, but that's OK. Right now, I'm still not sure of my choice. At home, I may just have to run each for a short while to see what meets my personal likes./dislikes and skills. Again - thanks From stenberg at me3.org Mon Jul 29 10:16:10 2002 From: stenberg at me3.org (Kjell Stenberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Committee Idea In-Reply-To: <3D42079B.8C9763A7@dccmn.com> Message-ID: Yes- and I'm not so much interested in the people here learning the technology so much as being able to leverage it. So combining technology strategists with environment/social change initiatives could produce some really cool ideas and deliverables. I also think that the non-profit community needs some guidance. They may know what they want, but they have no bridge in front of them to get there. You already have experience in this area and I'd love to have you be a part of this. I'm the exiting technology guy here and we currently have no linux installations doing production work. But that could very-well change. Currently we run MS NT 4/5 and share the network with an Apple-run 501(c)3. This committee would help shape ME3's technology outlook and initiatives- all aimed at promoting their mission. Kjell -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 9:38 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Committee Idea I just had a meeting with our Victory Neighborhood Association web committee. I think I sold them on the idea of using Linux for their web project. I've also been working with a friend in setting up a computer network for Prism, a service organization (food bank, elderly services, etc.) im Robbinsdale. There we had some discussions of a cooperative database with other such organizations via Linux as a VPN gateway. In addition, my Wife & Daughter's school is also actively using Linux for networking services. All these organizations are very interested in doing more with Linux, but has a need to learn more, as well as acquire a base of linux literate volunteers. I would also like to be involved in this sort of project, to try and get a bit of synergy from such an organization. If nothing else, to set up a set of seminars/presentation on using Linux in a Non-profit. Kjell Stenberg wrote: > > I'd like to take this thread in a slightly different direction for a moment- but > a related direction. > > I will be leaving my current job as Technology Strategist for a master degree > program starting in Sept. And I was thinking about creating a volunteer > technology strategy committee made up of computer-wise/socially conscious > strategists who are interested in 1) promoting cool technology solutions and 2) > protecting the environment/contributing to humanistic causes. > > This is still in idea form- but what would it be like to serve several times a > year on a committee to lead one or many grassroots organizations in the > deployment of cutting edge technology solutions that ultimately result in policy > change that benefits mankind? > > In terms of networking, you'd get a chance to meet many Executive Directors of > non-profits as well as other gurus from around the Twin Cities. In terms of > resume building, it'd separate your resume from the crowd to have volunteer > experience that really let you sink your chops into technology deployment and > policy change. And in terms of all of the new and emerging technologies out > there, you'd have the opportunity to work on/review projects thereby giving you > experience at the development/ maintenance/ implementation/ administration/ > evaluation levels. > > And then, in the open source community arena, there is the opportunity to create > this as a case study of how the Linux community is leading the revolution of > social and environmental change. Everything "on the leading edge" about this. > > Thoughts? Interests? Feedback? I'm quite serious about this committee and I'd > like to have it in embryonic form by the end of August. > > All feedback is welcome. > > Kjell Stenberg > Technology Strategist > Minnesotans for an Energy-Efficient Economy > stenberg@me3.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Ben Lutgens > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:28 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Jobs > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:08:05AM -0500, BN wrote: > > > >I saw one that wanted 5 years of .NET experience. Also, back in 1999, > >there was a posting that wanted 7 years of Java experience. > > Sounds like a broken HR department if you ask me. Call them about the job > and inform them that thier requirements are not likely to be met because > the skill they require didn't exist 5 years ago. It's be interesting to > know how they reacted when recieving that little nugget of information. > > Also I can't stress enough the importance of "Networking" when looking for > work. (No not IP networking, people networking) It's important for us dorks > to get out, get some sunlight once in a while and get to know some people, > at some point if you're mingling in the right circles and can sell yourself > you'll get lucky. I can assure you that staying indoors and not going to > LUG meetings, trade shows etc is not going to net you many offers. > > In fact, I got my current job by introducing myself to the sistina founder > at a LUG meeting and asked him to keep me in mind for a sysadmin job. > > -- > Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ > System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ > Sistina Software Inc. | > > "If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you > hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Mon Jul 29 10:50:41 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Committee Idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I also think that the non-profit community needs some guidance. They may know > what they want, but they have no bridge in front of them to get there. You > already have experience in this area and I'd love to have you be a part of this. Im meeting with some folks on wed. to discuss non-profit needs (tech) and to discuss the idea of starting a non-profit to help other non-profits. (specifically webdesign/hosting). There is a non-profit tesch talk list, which i am sure would benefit from a few lug'ers subscribing (and vice versa) here is the link for the list (again) so if you are interested, sign up for a while, pitch in, advocate linux.... web: http://www.communityforum.net/mailman/listinfo/nonprofit_tech_talk email: nonprofit_tech_talk-request@communityforum.net?subject=subscribe see you on the list :) duncan From amy at real-time.com Mon Jul 29 11:59:20 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd mozilla problem w/ searching Message-ID: <20020729123527.I1296@real-time.com> In mozilla... I used to always type in my keywords then hit down arrow to select 'Search with Google', since Google is listed as my preferred search engine. But now, down arrow doesn't do anything. This started happening a few days ago and it's driving me nuts. I'm running mozilla-1.0.1-4 and that was upgraded almost a month ago. Any ideas? -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020729/1892bf25/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jul 29 16:09:02 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd mozilla problem w/ searching In-Reply-To: <20020729123527.I1296@real-time.com>; from amy@real-time.com on Mon, Jul 29, 2002 at 12:35:27PM -0500 References: <20020729123527.I1296@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020729164641.B12827@real-time.com> Quoting Amy Tanner (amy@real-time.com): > In mozilla... > > I used to always type in my keywords then hit down arrow to select > 'Search with Google', since Google is listed as my preferred search > engine. But now, down arrow doesn't do anything. This started > happening a few days ago and it's driving me nuts. I'm running > mozilla-1.0.1-4 and that was upgraded almost a month ago. > > Any ideas? Edit->Preferenced->Navigation->Smart Browsing->Location Bar Autocomplete checked Automatically complete text typed into Location bar Click Advanced... I have all 4 options checked. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jul 30 07:13:01 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Multicast providers was: MacOS X In-Reply-To: <20020727214151.G23054@botwerks.org> References: <20020728010133.2703.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> <20020727214151.G23054@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <1027985475.4367.36.camel@runabout> On Sat, 2002-07-27 at 21:41, steve ulrich wrote: > new jaguar release. i'm still not sure what their plans are in the > multicast domain. Speaking of multicast, are there any providers in the MN area that provide multicast over DSL? IPv6 over DSL? I know some providers do this over T1+ (sprint does multicast, for instance, over some speeds of links), but I'm interested in residental or small-business providers. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From amy at real-time.com Tue Jul 30 08:58:06 2002 From: amy at real-time.com (Amy Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] wierd mozilla problem w/ searching In-Reply-To: <20020729164641.B12827@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Jul 29, 2002 at 04:46:41PM -0500 References: <20020729123527.I1296@real-time.com> <20020729164641.B12827@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020730083925.P1296@real-time.com> On Mon, Jul 29, 2002 at 04:46:41PM -0500, Bob Tanner (tanner@real-time.com) wrote: > Quoting Amy Tanner (amy@real-time.com): > > In mozilla... > > > > I used to always type in my keywords then hit down arrow to select > > 'Search with Google', since Google is listed as my preferred search > > engine. But now, down arrow doesn't do anything. This started > > happening a few days ago and it's driving me nuts. I'm running > > mozilla-1.0.1-4 and that was upgraded almost a month ago. > > > > Any ideas? > > Edit->Preferenced->Navigation->Smart Browsing->Location Bar Autocomplete > > checked Automatically complete text typed into Location bar > > Click Advanced... > > I have all 4 options checked. Sure enough, I checked and they are all unchecked now. However, after I check them, click OK, it still doesn't work. So I looked again, and they are unchecked again. It's not keeping the changes for some reason. -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20020730/3cdaa4bb/attachment.pgp From austad at marketwatch.com Tue Jul 30 11:27:52 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssl 0.9.6e Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888259@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Does anyone have a mirror of this? openssl.org seems to be hammered right now. Doh. Jay From jamie at gnulife.org Tue Jul 30 11:47:02 2002 From: jamie at gnulife.org (Jamie Ostrowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Twin Cities x86 Assembly users groups? Message-ID: <20020730125901.S30235-100000@floyd.gnulife.org> Anyone know of any assembly programmers groups or clubs that meet in the Twin Cities on a regular basis? Thanks. - Jamie ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== "I thought you were going to get into shape." "I am. The shape I've selected is a triangle." From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jul 30 12:30:05 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] openssl 0.9.6e In-Reply-To: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA008888259@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Austad, Jay wrote: > Does anyone have a mirror of this? openssl.org seems to be hammered > right now. Doh. It's easier just to apply the patch to your current version, and rebuild that. That way, don't have to upgrade OpenSSH too. Patches are available in the Bugtraq e-mail from Ben Laurie with the subject 'OpenSSL patches for other versions'. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From tanner at real-time.com Tue Jul 30 21:07:31 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Good read Message-ID: <20020730214716.I2553@real-time.com> http://www.protocopy.com/osgui.html The above is a good read. I've heard both the GNOME and KDE camps say they mimic MS GUI to easy the transition from MS to Linux. The above article makes a great statement, IMHO: "... If the product is better, it does not matter how different it is. That's why many of us threw out hundreds of dollars of records and diamond needles the day CD's came out. ... " -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 30 21:51:22 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Idiot Ben (was: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Help! The boss wants an exchange server!!!) In-Reply-To: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan>; from churchid@visi.com on Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 10:41:59AM -0500 References: <02072710415900.01405@nat4.dc.dan> Message-ID: <20020730222807.D20762@real-time.com> On Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 10:41:59AM -0500, Daniel Churchill wrote: > I guess it was obvious that this is how this thread would end up after the > first post. Still, I am disappointed and disgusted by the fact that it > actually dipped to the low of one person calling the other a dumb ass, > followed by someone else showing enthusiastic support for it. it should be pointed out (tho I suspect it's too late), that the person doing the name-calling was none other than our infamous Idiot Ben. :) For those who haven't been on this list long enough to know him; Ben is one of the most clueful admins I've ever met, and has an... interesting sense of humor. I seriously doubt he takes himself seriously, and no one else should take him fully seriously either, whatever he may say. :) I've learned not to think too highly of *anyone's* opinions on this list (including my own at times), unless corroborated by several people. Ben's occasional outbursts amount to statistical noise (unless you consider them a form of artistic humor, as I do); and should be treated as such. in short, don't take anyone too seriously, least of all yourself. that's the fundamental reason people get angry at each other. Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jul 30 22:35:15 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Multicast providers was: MacOS X In-Reply-To: <1027985475.4367.36.camel@runabout> References: <20020728010133.2703.cpmta@c012.snv.cp.net> <20020727214151.G23054@botwerks.org> <1027985475.4367.36.camel@runabout> Message-ID: <20020730133410.GB12573@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Tuesday, Jul 30, 2002), Scott Dier was madly tapping out: > On Sat, 2002-07-27 at 21:41, steve ulrich wrote: > > > new jaguar release. i'm still not sure what their plans are in the > > multicast domain. > > Speaking of multicast, are there any providers in the MN area that > provide multicast over DSL? IPv6 over DSL? I know some providers > do this over T1+ (sprint does multicast, for instance, over some > speeds of links), but I'm interested in residental or small-business > providers. i get my multicast feed from work. i don't know any local providers that provide a multicast tunnel. they all seem to have their hands full with unicast operation. in some cases you can get your feed from the upstream of your provider. i have done this in the past and it's worked somewhat well. alternatively you might try contacting some of the existing mbone members and seeing if you can get a tunnel drop from them. lurking on the mbone list and approaching someone unicast for a tunnel endpoint can sometimes get the job done. ;-) -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jul 31 10:52:56 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:07 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft and AT&T to partner Message-ID: <20020731113550.C10352@real-time.com> Saw this on CNN, have not seen it on the web sites yet: Bleah. Microsoft at AT&T to partner to provide data services. 1 new monopoly with 1 OLD monopoly = no customer choice -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3 From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 31 11:24:31 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft and AT&T to partner Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA00888828C@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> We have the story: http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/newsarticle.asp?siteid=mktw&sid=3140 &guid=%7B07964089%2D080C%2D449E%2D93F3%2DC2F7ECF85AD2%7D > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@real-time.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:36 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft and AT&T to partner > Importance: High > > > Saw this on CNN, have not seen it on the web sites yet: > > Bleah. Microsoft at AT&T to partner to provide data services. > > 1 new monopoly with 1 OLD monopoly = no customer choice > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15 623D 0036 7327 93D9 > 7DA3 _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-> linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From wlayer at attbi.com Wed Jul 31 11:32:04 2002 From: wlayer at attbi.com (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft and AT&T to partner In-Reply-To: <20020731113550.C10352@real-time.com> References: <20020731113550.C10352@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020731121707.2438c117.wlayer@attbi.com> On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:35:50 -0500 Bob Tanner wrote: > Saw this on CNN, have not seen it on the web sites yet: > > Bleah. Microsoft at AT&T to partner to provide data services. ..and this is why I left Qworst for ATTBI... Does anyone else feel a little tug on the short hairs? -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- From austad at marketwatch.com Wed Jul 31 18:27:10 2002 From: austad at marketwatch.com (Austad, Jay) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Microsoft and AT&T to partner Message-ID: <54180709DD3FE145917BB165AFE7EFA007257311@mspexch2.office.mktw.net> It appears that it's ATT wireless, not ATTBI. Which sucks anyway since I'm a long time customer of ATT wireless. With the MSN/Qwest thing, even my girlfriend's parents dropped them because of it, and they don't know a damn thing about computers/internet/technology. Jay > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Layer [mailto:wlayer@attbi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:17 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Microsoft and AT&T to partner > > > On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:35:50 -0500 > Bob Tanner wrote: > > > Saw this on CNN, have not seen it on the web sites yet: > > > > Bleah. Microsoft at AT&T to partner to provide data services. > > ..and this is why I left Qworst for ATTBI... Does anyone else feel a > little tug on the short hairs? > > -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.- > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From clay at fandre.com Wed Jul 31 20:21:38 2002 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is your favorite WM? Message-ID: <20020731133802.GA24165@fandre.com> Because curious minds want to know... http://www.mn-linux.org/sympoll/polllist.php3?mypollid=24 From paul at harris.net Wed Jul 31 20:22:12 2002 From: paul at harris.net (Paul) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux GUI Message-ID: <20020731063902.2896.h015.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> I'd have to go with the Oracle of Cringely on this one - something needs to be 10x better to overcome customer inertia (though I think 10x is perhaps a bit high). People switched to CDs because they were loads better than LPs; they sounded better (except at the real hi-fi end), were tougher, didn't wear out, were portable, and I didn't have to throw anything out to use them. A linux GUI is different, probably because one of the assertions that the auther makes (that Windows is ultimately disposable) is wrong (IMHO of course). Changing OS requires hours of time for installation, tweaking and configuring to get things just as I like (not necessarily the to be the *same* as Windows, just having the right bookmarks available, etc). I can dual boot and make it harder to work freely between all my apps, or I can go 100% Linux and throw away my investment in apps (and in knowing how Windows works, however defective that might be). I agree with the point the author is trying to make, and I think trying to be the same as Windows instead of inventively solving user's problems is an issue that affects many Open Source projects. If Linux gave me a human face I could relate to, a friendly GNU/HAL, that would be well worth. But that would also be 10x better, therefore Cringely applies :) Cheers, Paul ---- > From: Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com> > http://www.protocopy.com/osgui.html > > The above is a good read. > > I've heard both the GNOME and KDE camps say they mimic MS > GUI to easy the > transition from MS to Linux. > > The above article makes a great statement, IMHO: > > "... If the product is better, it does not matter how > different it is. That's > why many of us threw out hundreds of dollars of records and > diamond needles the > day CD's came out. ... "