From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 1 00:42:39 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article In-Reply-To: <3FA33EF5.2090608@comcast.net> References: <3FA33EF5.2090608@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FA355DF.7090902@visi.com> RTFM, where have I heard that before. To stir the pot or not to stir the pot, that is the question? The article says a lot. It is the most upsetting thing on earth to not understand WTF the words on a man page are trying to tell me. Then to find a HOWTO and have it read verbatim what the man page is. I could write instructions in non-technical language if the man pages just made sense enough to translate. The man pages need to be edited by non-technical people with technical people answering questions about what the intent of the page is and what it applies to. When I try to learn something and follow the standard method, read the man page, read the howto, pull out some hair, find someone who knows. The intent of M$ Windows is to make using a computer easier. If Linux is ever to catch with the general public it will need to follow Apple's OS X. I stopped at the Apple store in South Dale today. Dang them are some beautiful computers and fast as HE-doubletoothpicks! All running OS X and BIG displays! It's worth a trip just to look at the hardware, leave your wallet, check book, and credit cares at home :-) Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Sat Nov 1 10:00:37 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No November TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20031031152644.GB20315@fandre.com> Message-ID: <88D6C22D-0C84-11D8-A130-000A95686AEC@sodatrain.com> > meeting this month. I'll try and get on the ball for next month and > get something planned. If you have any ideas of suggestions, let me Suggestion Topic: Storage: SAN/NAS/GFS/something else... What are they, how you can use them, and esp. how you can build your own and not spend huge ammounts of money buying one from vertias or others... Im not even sure if that makes sense. I suggest this topic because im going to be building (i think) a cluster using LVS for higher availability and i need to determine how to best provide the storage space/keep data in sync. That said, if there is any interest, i could talk about the LVS cluster when im done... duncan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sat Nov 1 09:44:06 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text Message-ID: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> I am setting up a calendar program that is configured to notify members of new events. That part works, but it is sending a generic notice, not the one I am expecting. I need to locate the file it is using which contains the text user@isp.com. Is there a way of doing this with cat or a find command. I have done what I know to do, but am not finding the name of the file. Thanks Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Nov 1 10:37:26 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031101163726.GA19180@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 09:44:06AM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am setting up a calendar program that is configured to notify members of > new events. That part works, but it is sending a generic notice, not the one > I am expecting. I need to locate the file it is using which contains the > text user@isp.com. Is there a way of doing this with cat or a find command. > I have done what I know to do, but am not finding the name of the file. > > Raymond > Try the 'grep' command. Perhaps start at directory such as /var/www/html and type: find . | xargs grep user@isp.com If that doesn't work, explain the calendar program in more detail. Is it a web app? Are you using PHP? Are there any PHP classes involved? Is it written in Perl? C? -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Nov 1 10:50:49 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <3FA3E469.20507@eworld3.net> What is the name of the calendar program? I assume that you have looked at all of its docs, web sites, and generally googled for info about it. If none of that helps, I would try to find the directory where the program is installed and use find and grep to look for the email address: find . -type f| xargs grep 'user@ispcom' I hope that helps. Raymond Norton wrote: > I am setting up a calendar program that is configured to notify members of > new events. That part works, but it is sending a generic notice, not the one > I am expecting. I need to locate the file it is using which contains the > text user@isp.com. Is there a way of doing this with cat or a find command. > I have done what I know to do, but am not finding the name of the file. > > > > Thanks > > > Raymond > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Sat Nov 1 11:42:16 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text References: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> <3FA3E469.20507@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FA3F078.2040902@structural-wood.com> The find command spec'd below will fail if there are files found by the find command that have spaces or quote characters in their names. The following will be slower but will work with all (?) file names. find . -type f -exec grep -y 'user@ispcom' {} \; Note that you might get lots of garbage spewed out since the found file may be binary. In this case you might want to have grep just report the filename. find . -type f -exec grep -ly 'user@ispcom' {} \; (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and quote characters in file names). Kent Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > What is the name of the calendar program? I assume that you have looked > at all of its docs, web sites, and generally googled for info about it. > > If none of that helps, I would try to find the directory where the > program is installed and use find and grep to look for the email address: > > find . -type f| xargs grep 'user@ispcom' > > I hope that helps. > > Raymond Norton wrote: > >> I am setting up a calendar program that is configured to notify >> members of >> new events. That part works, but it is sending a generic notice, not >> the one >> I am expecting. I need to locate the file it is using which contains the >> text user@isp.com. Is there a way of doing this with cat or a find >> command. >> I have done what I know to do, but am not finding the name of the file. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Raymond >> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Nov 1 11:59:52 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200311011759.hA1HxqE10422@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Sat Nov 1 11:59:52 2003. Name: Matt Category: computersell Subject: 19inch Optiquest CRT Ad: $125 or best offer. Excellent condition, no problems. Classic cream color. 17.75 inches viewable. Feel free to inspect it before purchasing. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sat Nov 1 12:05:09 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <3FA3F078.2040902@structural-wood.com> References: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> <3FA3E469.20507@eworld3.net> <3FA3F078.2040902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031101180509.GA24512@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 11:42:16AM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > The find command spec'd below will fail if there are files found by the > find command that have spaces or quote characters in their names. The > following will be slower but will work with all (?) file names. > > find . -type f -exec grep -y 'user@ispcom' {} \; > > Note that you might get lots of garbage spewed out since the found file > may be binary. In this case you might want to have grep just report > the filename. > > find . -type f -exec grep -ly 'user@ispcom' {} \; > You could always do: find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -il user@ispcom which uses nulls as the filename separator, so you can handle filenames with whitespace. TMTOWTDI. I didn't know what "-y" does; my manpage says it's equivalent to -i. I always use "-i" cos that's what Perl uses for case-insensitive matching. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sat Nov 1 12:29:43 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <3FA3F078.2040902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and > quote characters in file names). if you do not like it there is always DOS :) Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Sat Nov 1 12:55:56 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article In-Reply-To: <3FA355DF.7090902@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:42:39AM -0600 References: <3FA33EF5.2090608@comcast.net> <3FA355DF.7090902@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031101125556.A15853@real-time.com> On 11/01 12:42 , Sam MacDonald wrote: > It is the most upsetting thing on earth to not understand WTF the words > on a man page are trying to tell me. Then to find a HOWTO and have it > read verbatim what the man page is. if that's the case, then it: a. missed the point of being a HOWTO; which is to be more helpful and cookbook-ish than a man page OR b. there is little more to be said on the subject, and one must simply reach the necessary level of enlightenment, and it all will become perfectly clear. :) man pages are not helpfiles. They never were intended to be. Man pages convey a lot of information in a very compact format, for the sake of quick reference. Once you understand their format, they are the administrator's best friend. Admins rarely can remember everything they need to know, to do their job (and there's some argument that they shouldn't have to: why remember it when you can write it down, and save the memory capacity?) An administrator should not have to read pages of prose in order to find reference to the setting he wants (the 'chmod' man page is an example of this, IMHO -- things are bunched up into paragraphs, instead of laid out point by point). I think the reasons for the percieved learning curve and its engendered culture are: -- Unix has been taught by generations of administrators, by "special transmission outside the scriptures" (as ESR put it?). There was never any need for HOWTOs, until Linux came along, and a vast group of people suddenly had the OS, but no guru to work with daily. As such, the HOWTOs are aberrations in the Unix culture, fairly specific to Linux. -- As the article points out; Unix geeks tend to be comparatively antisocial people. Many of us were rejected from the social groups of our childhood; but now the same people who cast us out, want our help (and often still want it on their terms). We show them little more mercy than they showed us, hoping that their children will learn from the mistakes of their parents. (we will be disappointed in that tho; few people learn from the mistakes of their parents.) This is often extended to anyone who has not proven themselves as a geek yet; why should you help someone who is not smart enough or dedicated enough to help themselves, and may just be wasting your time, with no possible contribution to return? If you demonstrate willingness to try, some attempts to learn on your own, and some contributions to return, I've found that geeks are more than willing to help you uot. One could compare this to any exclusive social group -- doctors, golfers, car drivers, etc -- you can't join unless you demonstrate willingness and determination to be something resembing a valuable person who can relate to them at their level. Carl. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Sat Nov 1 13:39:37 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and > quote characters in file names). File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_the_gr eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) Steve_Swantz _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Sat Nov 1 13:39:37 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and > quote characters in file names). File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_the_gr eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) Steve_Swantz _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sat Nov 1 14:26:35 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re:need to find file that contains specific text References: Message-ID: <01a401c3a0b6$72cb3d40$650b0b0a@DELL2> > Try the 'grep' command. Perhaps start at directory such as /var/www/html and > type: > > find . | xargs grep user@isp.com Thanks, that helped me figure out what the problem was. The calendar program is from www.calendarscript.com (Mark Kruse). A little bit of money, but very nice. I added the EmailNotify plugin and followed the setup. It sends out a notice each time an event is added, deleted, and edited. Turns out you can select to receive your email by html or text, so I was getting the un-edited html doc instead of the text file I was expecting. I set it to text and it works fine. Thanks for the response. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Sat Nov 1 16:04:21 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text References: Message-ID: <3FA42DE5.1080606@structural-wood.com> Steve Swantz wrote: > > On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > >>(I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and >>quote characters in file names). > > > File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_the_gr > eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) > > Steve_Swantz > > I-fail-to-comprehend-your-point. Kent ;_) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Sat Nov 1 16:04:21 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text References: Message-ID: <3FA42DE5.1080606@structural-wood.com> Steve Swantz wrote: > > On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > >>(I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and >>quote characters in file names). > > > File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_the_gr > eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) > > Steve_Swantz > > I-fail-to-comprehend-your-point. Kent ;_) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Sat Nov 1 13:39:37 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and > quote characters in file names). File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_the_gr eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) Steve_Swantz _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Sat Nov 1 19:20:04 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <3FA42DE5.1080606@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: Kent Schumacher wrote: >> >>> (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces and >>> quote characters in file names). >> >> >> File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_the_gr >> eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) >> >> Steve_Swantz >> >> > I-fail-to-comprehend-your-point. > > Kent ;_) > What_I_meant_was,_you're_right_that_spaces_in_file_names_make_life_more_diff icult_for_the_programmer._In_fact,_Apple_had_bug_in_an_installer_that_caused _the_loss_of_files_on_drives_that_had_spaces_in_the_file_name._But_putting_u nderscores_in_file_names_is_as_natural_for_the_average_Joe_as_reading_this_i s_for_us._So_we_adapt_our_work_to_the_user_rather_than_them_adapting_to_us. Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Sat Nov 1 17:30:36 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am setting up a calendar program that is configured to notify members of > new events. That part works, but it is sending a generic notice, not the one > I am expecting. I need to locate the file it is using which contains the > text user@isp.com. Is there a way of doing this with cat or a find command. > I have done what I know to do, but am not finding the name of the file. I know you got an answer, but I'm a little surprised that no one gave the shortest way of doing this: grep -r user@isp.com /var/www/html/* The -r is for recursive. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Nov 1 22:14:59 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Packet8 service experience Message-ID: <200311012214.59599.barnabas@knicknack.net> Anybody out there have any experience, good or bad, with the Packet8 (http://www.packet8.net) service? At first glance, it looks pretty good. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Nov 1 22:13:19 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311012213.20318.barnabas@knicknack.net> The problem is not that we allow spaces in file names, it is that we overload their meaning. We use them both as argument seperators as well as within file names. The proper solution is to use a different character as the argument seperator. Then we could type commands that would be very clear, such as, for#i#in#*.ram;#do#if#[#-f#../done/$i#]#;#then#rm#$i;#fi;#done Eric#:-) On Saturday 01 November 2003 19:20, Steve Swantz wrote: > Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>> (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces > >>> and quote characters in file names). > >> > >> File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_th > >>e_gr eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) > >> > >> Steve_Swantz > > > > I-fail-to-comprehend-your-point. > > > > Kent ;_) > > What_I_meant_was,_you're_right_that_spaces_in_file_names_make_life_more_dif >f > icult_for_the_programmer._In_fact,_Apple_had_bug_in_an_installer_that_cause >d > _the_loss_of_files_on_drives_that_had_spaces_in_the_file_name._But_putting_ >u > nderscores_in_file_names_is_as_natural_for_the_average_Joe_as_reading_this_ >i > s_for_us._So_we_adapt_our_work_to_the_user_rather_than_them_adapting_to_us. > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Nov 1 22:13:19 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311012213.20318.barnabas@knicknack.net> The problem is not that we allow spaces in file names, it is that we overload their meaning. We use them both as argument seperators as well as within file names. The proper solution is to use a different character as the argument seperator. Then we could type commands that would be very clear, such as, for#i#in#*.ram;#do#if#[#-f#../done/$i#]#;#then#rm#$i;#fi;#done Eric#:-) On Saturday 01 November 2003 19:20, Steve Swantz wrote: > Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>> (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces > >>> and quote characters in file names). > >> > >> File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_th > >>e_gr eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) > >> > >> Steve_Swantz > > > > I-fail-to-comprehend-your-point. > > > > Kent ;_) > > What_I_meant_was,_you're_right_that_spaces_in_file_names_make_life_more_dif >f > icult_for_the_programmer._In_fact,_Apple_had_bug_in_an_installer_that_cause >d > _the_loss_of_files_on_drives_that_had_spaces_in_the_file_name._But_putting_ >u > nderscores_in_file_names_is_as_natural_for_the_average_Joe_as_reading_this_ >i > s_for_us._So_we_adapt_our_work_to_the_user_rather_than_them_adapting_to_us. > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sat Nov 1 16:35:43 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Mike J.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Florin? (I think) Message-ID: <3FA4353F.9080202@jentges.NET> Hey All, some time back I sent the following to this list and iirc it was florin that responded. I finally got to checking it out, only the response seems to have vanished! I need to disable any deletion after 2:00 AM or something. Anyhow, still looking at/for this. anyone still have florins response? Thanks! -mj -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Procmail/REGEX thang... Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:22:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Jentges Reply-To: mike@jentges.net To: Ok, if I'm unclear here, please bear with me but this is the best way I know to express what I'm asking. Typically in a regex, you'd use [0-9] to indicate values between 0 and 9, or [a-z] to indicate values between a and z.... I want to create a procmail recipe that will match user (from) names to something like tim34haha@spammer.com. In other words, usernames containing text,integer(s),text.. Also perhaps integer,text as well. Any ideas? From:.*??????? Mike Jentges -- ************************************************** **** Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.**** ************************************************** --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Nov 1 22:14:59 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Packet8 service experience Message-ID: <200311012214.59599.barnabas@knicknack.net> Anybody out there have any experience, good or bad, with the Packet8 (http://www.packet8.net) service? At first glance, it looks pretty good. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Sat Nov 1 23:36:44 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jima > > I know you got an answer, but I'm a little surprised that no one gave the > shortest way of doing this: > > grep -r user@isp.com /var/www/html/* > > The -r is for recursive. > This is list is proving very helpful for me - thanks for that grep trick. New to me. Steve Swantz _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Nov 1 22:13:19 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311012213.20318.barnabas@knicknack.net> The problem is not that we allow spaces in file names, it is that we overload their meaning. We use them both as argument seperators as well as within file names. The proper solution is to use a different character as the argument seperator. Then we could type commands that would be very clear, such as, for#i#in#*.ram;#do#if#[#-f#../done/$i#]#;#then#rm#$i;#fi;#done Eric#:-) On Saturday 01 November 2003 19:20, Steve Swantz wrote: > Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>> (I would love to beat the person soundly who decided to allow spaces > >>> and quote characters in file names). > >> > >> File_names_without_spaces_would_make_a_computer_far_less_friendly_for_th > >>e_gr eat_majority_of_desktop_users. ;-) > >> > >> Steve_Swantz > > > > I-fail-to-comprehend-your-point. > > > > Kent ;_) > > What_I_meant_was,_you're_right_that_spaces_in_file_names_make_life_more_dif >f > icult_for_the_programmer._In_fact,_Apple_had_bug_in_an_installer_that_cause >d > _the_loss_of_files_on_drives_that_had_spaces_in_the_file_name._But_putting_ >u > nderscores_in_file_names_is_as_natural_for_the_average_Joe_as_reading_this_ >i > s_for_us._So_we_adapt_our_work_to_the_user_rather_than_them_adapting_to_us. > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sun Nov 2 00:06:59 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Florin? (I think) In-Reply-To: <3FA4353F.9080202@jentges.NET> References: <3FA4353F.9080202@jentges.NET> Message-ID: <20031102060659.GK3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Nov 1 22:14:59 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Packet8 service experience Message-ID: <200311012214.59599.barnabas@knicknack.net> Anybody out there have any experience, good or bad, with the Packet8 (http://www.packet8.net) service? At first glance, it looks pretty good. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Nov 2 02:46:15 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200311020846.hA28kFf21247@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Sun Nov 2 02:46:14 2003. Name: Chris Schumann Category: free Subject: 16MB EDO RAM Ad: Free to good home. Southland branded SIMM; 16MB EDO DRAM. Labelled 30432G6Y/151J, A0009840 16MB. Chips are TI TMS417409DJ-60. You can pick up in St. Paul or I'll send for cost of postage and packaging. cschumann at twp dash llc dot com To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sat Nov 1 23:40:32 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with SuSE and an ISA-PnP sound card please Message-ID: <3FA498D0.3070009@comcast.net> PC: IBM 300PL Type 6862-A7U P2 400MHz with 384Meg of RAM BIOS set to PNP OS = NO Actual chip CS4235-KQ SuSE shows ISA PnP Cirrus Logic CS4235-9 sound card. YaST Hardware info shows three instances of: Crystal Multimedia audio controller (identical) "alsaconf" finds CS4236 card After a reboot, sound is non-functional until after running alsaconf. While running alsaconf, when process writes to modules.conf, I get an error message: aplay:pcm_write:1007:write error:Input/Output error During playback of test.wav, the system plays the first 0.5 second or less of the wav file about 10 times then stops. BUT XMMS is able to play songs, mostly. It sometimes halts for no apparent reason. Attempt to play test.wav with "aplay", results in same "stutter" of the wav file. I'm going bonkers here. I've done the Google search, and didn't come up with anything helpful. Does anyone have any good advice? RedHat and Mandrake have a nifty tool called "sndconfig" that worked wonders with the card, but I forgot to grab that part of the modules.conf file before wiping it to install SuSE. -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sun Nov 2 03:53:56 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ProcMail/REGEX thang.. Message-ID: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Hmm..... All I see for your response is: Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- Am I missing something?? http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2003-October/060812.html -mj --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sun Nov 2 11:10:48 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ProcMail/REGEX thang.. In-Reply-To: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <20031102171048.GN3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sun Nov 2 11:10:48 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ProcMail/REGEX thang.. In-Reply-To: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <20031102171048.GN3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sun Nov 2 11:10:48 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ProcMail/REGEX thang.. In-Reply-To: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <3637.199.199.150.6.1067766836.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <20031102171048.GN3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Sun Nov 2 16:23:16 2003 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD burners compatibility? Message-ID: <16293.33748.88476.177075@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Are these all pretty much kosher with Linux? Or do I have to worry about any particular models being incompatible? Thanks, r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Sun Nov 2 17:55:15 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD burners compatibility? In-Reply-To: <16293.33748.88476.177075@gargle.gargle.HOWL>; from rpgoldman@sift.info on Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 04:23:16PM -0600 References: <16293.33748.88476.177075@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031102175515.E15853@real-time.com> On 11/02 04:23 , Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Are these all pretty much kosher with Linux? Or do I have to worry > about any particular models being incompatible? not necessarily. best to google before buying. Carl. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at speakeasy.net Sun Nov 2 23:10:41 2003 From: cdf123 at speakeasy.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? Message-ID: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> I have a server running Mandrake 9.0, 2 Western Digital 60Gig drives, and 1 Maxtor 20Gig drive. Lately I've noticed it making high pitched noises (like a disk would make right before it crashes), and the machine itself has crashed a few times now. There's an e2fs error writing to certain blocks. They seem to be random, and in large numbers. I've ran e2fsck, checked for bad blocks in read only mode, and so far it's found nothing. Changing /etc/fstab to mount all non essential disks read only, and removing a good number of cron jobs, will let it run without any errors, but that kinda defeats most of the functions of the server (backups). Is it possible that a disk can fail on a write, but not a read? Or am I getting a different problem (I hope)? And if it is a disk crash, how long would you guess I have till it's no longer readable? I'm about three weeks away from affording a replacement disk. Thanks all... -- Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Sun Nov 2 12:23:27 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Free old RAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:46:15 -0600 > Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds > A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Sun Nov 2 02:46:14 2003. > > Name: Chris Schumann > Category: free > Subject: 16MB EDO RAM > Ad: Free to good home. Southland branded SIMM; 16MB EDO DRAM. > Labelled 30432G6Y/151J, A0009840 16MB. Chips are TI > TMS417409DJ-60. You can pick up in St. Paul or I'll send for cost > of postage and packaging. > cschumann at twp dash llc dot com Yes I posted then removed this ad. I'd really rather not have my e-mail address on a page to be scanned by crawlers. Anyway, the item is still available... and free as in beer. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Nov 2 23:34:41 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Help with SuSE and an ISA-PnP sound card please In-Reply-To: <3FA498D0.3070009@comcast.net> References: <3FA498D0.3070009@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311022334.41667.jack@jacku.com> On Saturday 01 November 2003 11:40 pm, Todd Young wrote: > PC: IBM 300PL Type 6862-A7U > P2 400MHz with 384Meg of RAM > BIOS set to PNP OS = NO > Actual chip CS4235-KQ > > SuSE shows ISA PnP Cirrus Logic CS4235-9 sound card. > > YaST Hardware info shows three instances of: > Crystal Multimedia audio controller (identical) > Some "googling" shows this to be a correct match. According to one listing I saw for the 300PL it contains a "Crystal CS4235-KQ onboard sound card". I suspect that the three entries may be related to seperate functions. FWIW the ALSA project website shows the cs4236 as the driver for CS4235 cards. I found no entry for either CS4235-KQ or CS4235-9 in SuSE's HW DB. There are some listings for CS4235 but they are for older versions of SuSE and not very informative. > > RedHat and Mandrake have a nifty tool called "sndconfig" that worked > wonders with the card, but I forgot to grab that part of the > modules.conf file before wiping it to install SuSE. The YaST sound module and alsaconf are designed to do the same thing. FWIW I've had pretty good luck with YaST's detection. Some times the volume adjustments need to be checked. Also if you are running KDE you might look at its ALSA utilities. Sorry it's not much help. Contact me off list if you want some more help troubleshooting. I've setup a bunch of sound cards on various versions of SuSE, including several finicky laptops. Your local SuSE bigot... -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Nov 2 07:30:33 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (webmaster@mn-linux.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds Message-ID: <200311021330.hA2DUXG23654@crusader.real-time.com> A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Sun Nov 2 07:30:33 2003. Name: richard heil Category: services Subject: want assistance with difficult linux/bsd installs Ad: I need some serious assistance with some difficult installs in linux and bsd. If you can hack code and want a challenge then call me. To view this and other ads at TCLUG Classifieds, please visit: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 3 01:37:05 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please Message-ID: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is cool here. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Mon Nov 3 05:57:12 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031103115712.GA17114@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 01:37:05AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as > expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > > Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email > addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is > cool here. > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > Looks good from my end. -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 3 07:37:30 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FA65A1A.4040705@visi.com> The list is working as it always has, I put my foot in my mouth, and I'm corrected :-) Bob Tanner wrote: >Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as >expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > >Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email >addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is >cool here. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Mon Nov 3 07:43:49 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031103134349.GR3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Mon Nov 3 08:45:32 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <20031103134349.GR3114@iucha.net> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <20031103134349.GR3114@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3FA66A0C.60905@druswanderings.net> Florin Iucha wrote: > This VERP stuff seems to like my email address: it sent my message to > the list in triplicate. > > florin > Oh good, I thought I just had too much to drink. I got a couple triplicates from Eric Stanley also. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 09:41:31 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Packet8 service experience In-Reply-To: <200311012214.59599.barnabas@knicknack.net> References: <200311012214.59599.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Eric Stanley wrote: > Anybody out there have any experience, good or bad, with the Packet8 > (http://www.packet8.net) service? At first glance, it looks pretty > good. I played around with it; worked fairly well, although I preferred Vonage. The basic voice quality for both services was about the same. Things Vonage offered that Packet8 didn't: - Localized area codes, IE, 952 instead of 612. - Voicemail that I can access online (play .wav files), and can also e-mail me a .wav file. - Quasi-911 service (not super important, but nice.) - Virtual phone numbers, so my sister-in-law can call from Tacoma for free - Call waiting (not of huge importance again) - Fax line for $10/mo, if I ever decide I need it If you don't care about any of the above, by all means, go Packet8. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Nov 3 07:01:18 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031103130118.GA2970@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 01:37:05AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as > expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > > Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email > addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is > cool here. > Am I the only one getting duplicate messages? -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 3 10:16:44 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <200311031016.44762@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Monday 03 November 2003 01:37 am, Bob Tanner wrote: > Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing > as expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > > Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email > addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything > is cool here. I've disabled VERP, let's see if the problem is VERP or mailman. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 10:23:33 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: Sender verifcation _was_ Re: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <3FA678B3.7030804@speakeasy.net> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FA678B3.7030804@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <200311031023.33896@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Monday 03 November 2003 09:48 am, Chris Frederick wrote: > So thats why my cdf123@cdf123.com address is blocked from the list. Nope. It's because of sender verification. > >550-Called: 209.228.4.167 > >550-Sent: RCPT TO: > >550-Response: 550 User unknown > >550-Several RFCs state that you are required to have a postmaster > >550-mailbox for each mail domain. This host does not accept mail > >550-from domains whose servers reject the postmaster address. > >550 Sender verify failed > >Giving up. Exim is telling you exactly what the problem is. You are breaking several RFCs and you need to convince Domain Direct, who looks like they are vhosting your domain, that they need to setup a postmaster@cdf123.com alias for you. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at speakeasy.net Mon Nov 3 09:48:03 2003 From: cdf123 at speakeasy.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FA678B3.7030804@speakeasy.net> Bob Tanner wrote: >Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as >expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > >Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email >addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is >cool here. > > So thats why my cdf123@cdf123.com address is blocked from the list. >208.20.202.13 does not like recipient. >Remote host said: 550-Postmaster verification failed while checking >550-Called: 209.228.4.167 >550-Sent: RCPT TO: >550-Response: 550 User unknown >550-Several RFCs state that you are required to have a postmaster >550-mailbox for each mail domain. This host does not accept mail >550-from domains whose servers reject the postmaster address. >550 Sender verify failed >Giving up. I'm using domain direct for domain reg/email hosting. I'm guessing they don't like me enough to allow a postmaster account open. Thankfully my speakeasy address is still working. I'd be curious how many of those "bad email addresses" are really valid tclugers that want to get through, but cant... Just FYI I guess. :) Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 11:00:32 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <3FA3F078.2040902@structural-wood.com> References: <016b01c3a08e$fc793d30$650b0b0a@DELL2> <3FA3E469.20507@eworld3.net> <3FA3F078.2040902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <16294.35248.525444.663910@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "KS" == Kent Schumacher writes: KS> The find command spec'd below will fail if there are files found by the KS> find command that have spaces or quote characters in their names. The KS> following will be slower but will work with all (?) file names. KS> find . -type f -exec grep -y 'user@ispcom' {} \; KS> Note that you might get lots of garbage spewed out since the found file KS> may be binary. In this case you might want to have grep just report KS> the filename. KS> find . -type f -exec grep -ly 'user@ispcom' {} \; or find . -type f -exec grep -qy 'user@ispcom' {} \; -print _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Mon Nov 3 11:35:53 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: Sender verifcation _was_ Re: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311031023.33896@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FA678B3.7030804@speakeasy.net> <200311031023.33896@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FA691F9.30000@cdf123.com> Bob Tanner wrote: >On Monday 03 November 2003 09:48 am, Chris Frederick wrote: > > >>So thats why my cdf123@cdf123.com address is blocked from the list. >> >> > >Nope. It's because of sender verification. > >Exim is telling you exactly what the problem is. You are breaking several RFCs >and you need to convince Domain Direct, who looks like they are vhosting your >domain, that they need to setup a postmaster@cdf123.com alias for you. > > in other news, Bob Tanner wrote: >On Monday 03 November 2003 01:37 am, Bob Tanner wrote: > > >I've disabled VERP, let's see if the problem is VERP or mailman. > > > Ping, btw I do have a postmaster@cdf123.com alias for cdf123@cdf123.com. Not sure why it's not catching it. Actually I'm in the process of switching to Comcast cable (with no static ip), so I may just can the whole domain direct thing anyway. I haven't been too thrilled with their service. Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Nov 3 11:31:18 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031103173118.GB2447@fireopal.org> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 01:37:05AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is > performing as expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > > Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many > "bad" email addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to > double check everything is cool here. Ping? For several months now there's been something going on between fireopal.org & real-time.com such that real-time.com didn't like e-mail from fireopal.org. Wonder if this fixed it? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Nov 3 12:20:31 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <20031103173118.GB2447@fireopal.org> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <20031103173118.GB2447@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20031103182031.GA4166@fireopal.org> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 11:31:18AM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > For several months now there's been something going on between > fireopal.org & real-time.com such that real-time.com didn't like > e-mail from fireopal.org. Wonder if this fixed it? Yay! I'm getting through! -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Nov 3 11:42:53 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <20031103130118.GA2970@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <20031103130118.GA2970@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: "John J. Trammell" writes: > On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 01:37:05AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as > > expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > > > > Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email > > addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is > > cool here. > > Am I the only one getting duplicate messages? I am not getting duplicate messages. (Yeah, I know, that doesn't answer your question. It's the part of the answer known to me.) -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 12:19:44 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was getting duplicate messages and varying numbers of dupes. Haven't seen dupes in a day or so though. Is everybody getting the "bounces" header instead of a simple listserve header? Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces+cncole=earthlink.net@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces+cncole=earthlink.net@mn-linux.org]On Behalf > Of David Dyer-Bennet > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:43 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback > please > > > "John J. Trammell" writes: > > > On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 01:37:05AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > Just checking in with everyone to make sure the mailing list is performing as > > > expected after the upgrade and turning on VERP. > > > > > > Call me paranoid, but this VERP stuff seems to be catching many "bad" email > > > addresses. A couple everyday now. I just wanted to double check everything is > > > cool here. > > > > Am I the only one getting duplicate messages? > > I am not getting duplicate messages. (Yeah, I know, that doesn't > answer your question. It's the part of the answer known to me.) > -- > David Dyer-Bennet, , > RKBA: > Photos: Snapshots: > Dragaera/Steven Brust: > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Mon Nov 3 12:37:09 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <3FA66A0C.60905@druswanderings.net> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <20031103134349.GR3114@iucha.net> <3FA66A0C.60905@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <20031103183709.GT3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Nov 3 12:24:02 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] top--sites.net? Message-ID: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> Anyone know anything about top--sites.net? I'm trying to decide if the e-mail I got from them is serious or spam - it looks like they're trying to be some kind of web reference / search engine site? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 12:25:57 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD-RW drives... Message-ID: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> The reason I was asking is that there's a very inexpensive Micro Advantage DVD RW drive at At least some of what I found by googling seemed to suggest that I should stick to Pioneer drives and avoid any others. What have your experiences been? I'm interested in moving from CDs to DVDs for backup purposes.... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Nov 3 13:18:40 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] top--sites.net? In-Reply-To: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> References: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20031103191840.GA13057@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 12:24:02PM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > Anyone know anything about top--sites.net? I'm trying to decide if > the e-mail I got from them is serious or spam - it looks like they're > trying to be some kind of web reference / search engine site? > Google is your friend. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=top--sites.net -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Nov 3 13:12:01 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] top--sites.net? In-Reply-To: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> References: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <3FA6A881.3040607@andersonfam.org> I got an email from them this weekend also...I just deleted the message, so I didn't do any research into them. Scott Raun wrote: > Anyone know anything about top--sites.net? I'm trying to decide if > the e-mail I got from them is serious or spam - it looks like they're > trying to be some kind of web reference / search engine site? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Nov 3 13:05:56 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Free old RAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031103190556.GA18797@fandre.com> So apparently there were some issues with the current TCLUG classifieds app where it would list your email address in the ad. So instead of fixing it, I upgraded to the latest version. (BTW, if there is something that is broken or doesn't work the way you'd like it to, just ask and chances are I'll fix it for you) Anywhoo, the new version is here: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi If you had an add in the old classified app, please resubmit it in the new one. I had to do some recoding to make it work with the old version of perl we are running on our server so there might still be some bugs to work out. The old version is still online at: http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds1/classifieds.cgi -- Clay On Sun, 02 Nov 2003, Chris Schumann wrote: > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 02:46:15 -0600 > > Subject: [TCLUG] A new classified ad at TCLUG Classifieds > > > A new TCLUG classified ad at was placed Sun Nov 2 02:46:14 2003. > > > > Name: Chris Schumann > > Category: free > > Subject: 16MB EDO RAM > > Ad: Free to good home. Southland branded SIMM; 16MB EDO DRAM. > > Labelled 30432G6Y/151J, A0009840 16MB. Chips are TI > > TMS417409DJ-60. You can pick up in St. Paul or I'll send for cost > > of postage and packaging. > > cschumann at twp dash llc dot com > > Yes I posted then removed this ad. I'd really rather not have > my e-mail address on a page to be scanned by crawlers. > > Anyway, the item is still available... and free as in beer. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 3 13:32:53 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311031932.hA3JWrf13748@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer stuff wanted Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: Test Message This is a test message. But as long as you are reading this, I am looking for a barebones PentiumII-400 or better for under $75. Anyone? http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Nov 3 13:43:48 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] top--sites.net? In-Reply-To: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> References: <20031103182402.GB4166@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20031103194348.GT753@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 12:24:02PM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > Anyone know anything about top--sites.net? I'm trying to decide if > the e-mail I got from them is serious or spam - it looks like they're > trying to be some kind of web reference / search engine site? It's spam. I get tons of spam from them for the various domains I control. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsanborn at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 14:06:06 2003 From: jsanborn at earthlink.net (John Sanborn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Cancelling the email Message-ID: If one is going to be away from email for awhile, how does one remove oneself from this list? John Sanborn _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Nov 3 14:18:38 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD-RW drives... In-Reply-To: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031103201838.GU753@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 12:25:57PM -0600, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > The reason I was asking is that there's a very inexpensive Micro > Advantage DVD RW drive at > > At least some of what I found by googling seemed to suggest that I > should stick to Pioneer drives and avoid any others. Marketing drivel from people who don't know any better. > What have your experiences been? I'm interested in moving from CDs to > DVDs for backup purposes.... I've been quite happy with my sony DRU-500A for the past year or so, sony released a firmware upgrade to take it from 2.4X DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW writing to 4X, which is rather nice since most companies would just bump the model number and charge more. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Mon Nov 3 14:44:06 2003 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Packet8 service experience In-Reply-To: References: <200311012214.59599.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <200311031444.07044.barnabas@knicknack.net> Thanks for the feedback. Actually they do now offer numbers in the 952 area code. It is their Chaska rate center. What I'm looking for is cheap long distance and I think this'll probably work for me. I have ordered it. Eric On Monday 03 November 2003 09:41, Nate Carlson wrote: > On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Eric Stanley wrote: > > Anybody out there have any experience, good or bad, with the Packet8 > > (http://www.packet8.net) service? At first glance, it looks pretty > > good. > > I played around with it; worked fairly well, although I preferred Vonage. > > The basic voice quality for both services was about the same. Things > Vonage offered that Packet8 didn't: > > - Localized area codes, IE, 952 instead of 612. > - Voicemail that I can access online (play .wav files), and can also > e-mail me a .wav file. > - Quasi-911 service (not super important, but nice.) > - Virtual phone numbers, so my sister-in-law can call from Tacoma for free > - Call waiting (not of huge importance again) > - Fax line for $10/mo, if I ever decide I need it > > If you don't care about any of the above, by all means, go Packet8. :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Nov 3 15:31:22 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <3FA6C92A.3030809@eworld3.net> I thought someone more knowledgeable than I would have replied to you by now?! I guess I'll take a wack at it! Chris Frederick wrote: > I have a server running Mandrake 9.0, 2 Western Digital 60Gig drives, > and 1 Maxtor 20Gig drive. Lately I've noticed it making high pitched You mention the makes and sizes of the drives but you don't mention which one is making noise. > noises (like a disk would make right before it crashes), and the machine > itself has crashed a few times now. There's an e2fs error writing to > certain blocks. They seem to be random, and in large numbers. I've ran > e2fsck, checked for bad blocks in read only mode, and so far it's found Is the noisy disk the same one that shows write errors? > nothing. Changing /etc/fstab to mount all non essential disks read > only, and removing a good number of cron jobs, will let it run without > any errors, but that kinda defeats most of the functions of the server > (backups). > > Is it possible that a disk can fail on a write, but not a read? Or am I I would think that this is possible but I don't know. > getting a different problem (I hope)? And if it is a disk crash, how > long would you guess I have till it's no longer readable? I'm about > three weeks away from affording a replacement disk. After you have determined which disk is noisy/has errors my advice would depend on what kind of data is on the drive: If the data is: valuable changes daily I suggest that you: --------- ------------- --------------------------------------- yes yes backup the data ASAP and stop using the drive no yes replace the drive after it fails yes no backup the data ASAP and replace the drive when you can no no replace the drive after it fails > > Thanks all... -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Mon Nov 3 15:24:03 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD-RW drives... In-Reply-To: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FA6C773.4070100@visi.com> Tom's Hardware just did a detailed review on 10 hybrid DVD -/+ RW drives, http://www.tomshardware.com I think the Pioneer and the LG came out on top, and the latter is something like $140 at newegg. --rick rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >The reason I was asking is that there's a very inexpensive Micro >Advantage DVD RW drive at > >At least some of what I found by googling seemed to suggest that I >should stick to Pioneer drives and avoid any others. > >What have your experiences been? I'm interested in moving from CDs to >DVDs for backup purposes.... > >R > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 15:44:33 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com>; from cdf123@speakeasy.net on Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 11:10:41PM -0600 References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <20031103154433.K15853@real-time.com> On 11/02 11:10 , Chris Frederick wrote: > Is it possible that a disk can fail on a write, but not a read? I see no reason it can't. Disks are phenominally complex and delicate things; in some ways it's amazing that they work at all. > Or am I > getting a different problem (I hope)? And if it is a disk crash, how > long would you guess I have till it's no longer readable? I'm about > three weeks away from affording a replacement disk. have you tried looking at the output of 'dmesg' to see what it says? in any case; life of the disk will depend on how much you use it -- BUT -- disks wear out the most when starting up and shutting down (just like car engines and light bulbs), so only turning your computer on occasionally is not necessarily the answer. whining noises do not necessarily indicate a failing drive; but it's never a good sign. errors in dmesg (the kernel log) reporting a problem of any sort with a drive, are grounds for immediate replacement; tho they don't always appear when you have a problem. (absence of errors does not indicate that everthing is peachy-keen). I heartily suggest you replace the drive as soon as possible; or at least make sure you have good backups (www.mondorescue.org is your friend). Carl. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Mon Nov 3 15:50:15 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <3FA6C92A.3030809@eworld3.net> References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> <3FA6C92A.3030809@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FA6CD97.1000909@andersonfam.org> I'd recommend checking out http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ the SMART package has been an incredible boon to me for diagnosing hard disk problems. One caveat, though is that your hard drive must be new enough to have the SMART extensions. If your drive is <4 years old, you should be good to go. There's even a smartd that you can keep running that will notify you if one of your disks starts having problems. I've had quite a bit of experience with this package, and I'd be glad to answer any questions you have about it. -Erik Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I thought someone more knowledgeable than I would have replied to you by > now?! I guess I'll take a wack at it! > > Chris Frederick wrote: > >> I have a server running Mandrake 9.0, 2 Western Digital 60Gig drives, >> and 1 Maxtor 20Gig drive. Lately I've noticed it making high pitched > > > You mention the makes and sizes of the drives but you don't mention > which one is making noise. > >> noises (like a disk would make right before it crashes), and the machine >> itself has crashed a few times now. There's an e2fs error writing to >> certain blocks. They seem to be random, and in large numbers. I've ran >> e2fsck, checked for bad blocks in read only mode, and so far it's found > > > Is the noisy disk the same one that shows write errors? > >> nothing. Changing /etc/fstab to mount all non essential disks read >> only, and removing a good number of cron jobs, will let it run without >> any errors, but that kinda defeats most of the functions of the server >> (backups). >> >> Is it possible that a disk can fail on a write, but not a read? Or am I > > > I would think that this is possible but I don't know. > >> getting a different problem (I hope)? And if it is a disk crash, how >> long would you guess I have till it's no longer readable? I'm about >> three weeks away from affording a replacement disk. > > > After you have determined which disk is noisy/has errors my advice would > depend on what kind of data is on the drive: > > If the data is: > valuable changes daily I suggest that you: > --------- ------------- --------------------------------------- > yes yes backup the data ASAP and stop using the drive > > no yes replace the drive after it fails > > yes no backup the data ASAP and replace the > drive when you can > > no no replace the drive after it fails > >> >> Thanks all... > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Nov 3 16:05:23 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <20031103154433.K15853@real-time.com> References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> <20031103154433.K15853@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FA6D123.3080805@eworld3.net> > I heartily suggest you replace the drive as soon as possible; or at least > make sure you have good backups (www.mondorescue.org is your friend). > > Carl. I took a quick look at the web site and it seems pretty good. Does anyone else have any experience with mondo and mindi? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Mon Nov 3 16:13:27 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <20031103154433.K15853@real-time.com> References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> <20031103154433.K15853@real-time.com> Message-ID: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: > errors in dmesg (the kernel log) reporting a problem of any sort with a > drive, are grounds for immediate replacement; tho they don't always appear > when you have a problem. (absence of errors does not indicate that everthing > is peachy-keen). Somehow this reminds me -- is SMART of any use in modern drives, and what kernel levels (or other utilities?) in Linux make any use of the information if so? -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Mon Nov 3 16:18:28 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <3FA6D123.3080805@eworld3.net> Message-ID: > Rick Meyerhoff asked: > >> I heartily suggest you replace the drive as soon as possible; or at least >> make sure you have good backups (www.mondorescue.org is your friend). >> >> Carl. > > I took a quick look at the web site and it seems pretty good. Does > anyone else have any experience with mondo and mindi? > I used it almost two years ago to clone a drive and it worked like a charm. I'd guess it's only gotten better with age as I've seen quite a few articles talking about it lately. Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Mon Nov 3 16:11:16 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> Message-ID: <1067897475.8536.20.camel@lotsa> On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 23:10, Chris Frederick wrote: > I have a server running Mandrake 9.0, 2 Western Digital 60Gig drives, > and 1 Maxtor 20Gig drive. Lately I've noticed it making high pitched > noises (like a disk would make right before it crashes), and the machine > itself has crashed a few times now. Can you isolate where the noise is coming from? First rule out the fans. fans make that noise when the bearings die. I've seen bad block errors on heat damaged drives in Really Hot machines. If it is a heat related problem, which is unlikely but worth checking, you should still replace the drive that had the errors. To check your fans: with the box running stop your fans one at a time with your finger and see if the noise stops. Shut it down before removing the fan. > There's an e2fs error writing to > certain blocks. They seem to be random, and in large numbers. I've ran > e2fsck, checked for bad blocks in read only mode, and so far it's found > nothing. Changing /etc/fstab to mount all non essential disks read > only, and removing a good number of cron jobs, will let it run without > any errors, but that kinda defeats most of the functions of the server > (backups). > > Is it possible that a disk can fail on a write, but not a read? Or am I > getting a different problem (I hope)? And if it is a disk crash, how > long would you guess I have till it's no longer readable? I'm about > three weeks away from affording a replacement disk. > > Thanks all... -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 16:36:51 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <3FA6CD97.1000909@andersonfam.org>; from erik@andersonfam.org on Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 03:50:15PM -0600 References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> <3FA6C92A.3030809@eworld3.net> <3FA6CD97.1000909@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031103163651.L15853@real-time.com> On 11/03 03:50 , Erik Anderson wrote: > I'd recommend checking out http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ very cool. there's a debian package for this; so if you run debian (just like all the cool kids do), you can just apt-get install it. very simple to set up; and it looks like it even has support for drives on 3ware controllers! Carl. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 16:42:07 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD-RW drives... In-Reply-To: <3FA6C773.4070100@visi.com> References: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FA6C773.4070100@visi.com> Message-ID: <16294.55743.257490.460931@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Richard" == Richard Hoffbeck writes: Richard> Tom's Hardware just did a detailed review on 10 hybrid DVD -/+ RW Richard> drives, http://www.tomshardware.com I think the Pioneer and the LG came Richard> out on top, and the latter is something like $140 at newegg. Thanks. Very helpful. Alas, these all seem to have to do with ripping and recording movies, so not dead on target with what I'm interested in. And they only seem to be interested in what works with Windows. No mention of Linux. :-( R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Mon Nov 3 16:28:14 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> On Sat, 2003-11-01 at 17:30, Jima wrote: > On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Raymond Norton wrote: > > I am setting up a calendar program that is configured to notify members of > > new events. That part works, but it is sending a generic notice, not the one > > I am expecting. I need to locate the file it is using which contains the > > text user@isp.com. Is there a way of doing this with cat or a find command. > > I have done what I know to do, but am not finding the name of the file. > > I know you got an answer, but I'm a little surprised that no one gave the > shortest way of doing this: > > grep -r user@isp.com /var/www/html/* > > The -r is for recursive. > > Jima I've always used just grep with the recursive flag like this. I'm curious why would others want to complicate things with the find command? There must be a reason everyone is suggesting to use find in conjunction with grep when grep alone will do. Are they Masochists? For style points? -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 16:44:20 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] DVD-RW drives... In-Reply-To: <20031103201838.GU753@techmonkeys.org> References: <16294.40373.267690.370275@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20031103201838.GU753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <16294.55876.991598.138695@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew S Hallacy writes: Matthew> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 12:25:57PM -0600, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> >> The reason I was asking is that there's a very inexpensive Micro >> Advantage DVD RW drive at >> >> At least some of what I found by googling seemed to suggest that I >> should stick to Pioneer drives and avoid any others. Matthew> Marketing drivel from people who don't know any better Actually, I don't think that's fair --- I got that information from the DVD-rtools web site. I suspect it's just a case of no one bothering to update the site. >> What have your experiences been? I'm interested in moving from CDs to >> DVDs for backup purposes.... Matthew> I've been quite happy with my sony DRU-500A for the past Matthew> year or so, sony released a firmware upgrade to take it Matthew> from 2.4X DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW writing to 4X, which is rather Matthew> nice since most companies would just bump the model Matthew> number and charge more. Sadly, this seems to involve a $150+ sony premium. DRU and Micro Advantage are significantly cheaper (< 150 w/ rebate as opposed to almost $300). :-( _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 3 17:25:42 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Tom Penney wrote: > I've always used just grep with the recursive flag like this. I'm > curious why would others want to complicate things with the find > command? There must be a reason everyone is suggesting to use find in > conjunction with grep when grep alone will do. Are they Masochists? For > style points? Grep will only read through so many files at once; find+grep doesn't set silly limits like that. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Nov 3 17:24:23 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] drive crash/bad block? In-Reply-To: <1067897475.8536.20.camel@lotsa> References: <1067836240.11380.23.camel@laptop.cdf123.com> <1067897475.8536.20.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FA6E3A7.4030206@eworld3.net> Yes! I concur you have to rule out overheating and failing fans. Tom Penney wrote: > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 23:10, Chris Frederick wrote: > >>I have a server running Mandrake 9.0, 2 Western Digital 60Gig drives, >>and 1 Maxtor 20Gig drive. Lately I've noticed it making high pitched >>noises (like a disk would make right before it crashes), and the machine >>itself has crashed a few times now. > > > Can you isolate where the noise is coming from? First rule out the fans. > fans make that noise when the bearings die. I've seen bad block errors > on heat damaged drives in Really Hot machines. If it is a heat related > problem, which is unlikely but worth checking, you should still replace > the drive that had the errors. To check your fans: with the box running > stop your fans one at a time with your finger and see if the noise > stops. Shut it down before removing the fan. > > > >>There's an e2fs error writing to >>certain blocks. They seem to be random, and in large numbers. I've ran >>e2fsck, checked for bad blocks in read only mode, and so far it's found >>nothing. Changing /etc/fstab to mount all non essential disks read >>only, and removing a good number of cron jobs, will let it run without >>any errors, but that kinda defeats most of the functions of the server >>(backups). >> >>Is it possible that a disk can fail on a write, but not a read? Or am I >>getting a different problem (I hope)? And if it is a disk crash, how >>long would you guess I have till it's no longer readable? I'm about >>three weeks away from affording a replacement disk. >> >>Thanks all... -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Mon Nov 3 18:00:50 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anti Virus Software for Linux Mailservers Message-ID: We've been using RAV for the last year with good results, but since MS acquired them and buried the Linux product our updates are about to come to an end. Does anyone have any experience with Vexira (www.centralcommand.com)? It looks like it would pretty much be a drop in replacement for RAV on our Linux/Postfix setup. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Nov 3 18:42:34 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa>; from blots@visi.com on Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 04:28:14PM -0600 References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031103184234.A1819@thinkunix.net> Tom Penney wrote: > > grep -r user@isp.com /var/www/html/* > > > > The -r is for recursive. > > I've always used just grep with the recursive flag like this. I'm > curious why would others want to complicate things with the find > command? There must be a reason everyone is suggesting to use find in > conjunction with grep when grep alone will do. Are they Masochists? For > style points? not all UNIX systems have a grep that supports the '-r' flag -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Nov 3 20:52:52 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: Sender verifcation _was_ Re: [TCLUG] Status check of new mailing list + VERP, feedback please In-Reply-To: <3FA691F9.30000@cdf123.com> References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FA678B3.7030804@speakeasy.net> <200311031023.33896@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FA691F9.30000@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <20031104025252.GA9763@itlabs.umn.edu> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 11:35:53AM -0600, Chris Frederick wrote: > > Actually I'm in the process of switching to Comcast cable (with no > static ip), so I may just can the whole domain direct thing anyway. I > haven't been too thrilled with their service. > Time to go to everydns.net for some free dynamic DNS service so you can host your own! ;) John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Nov 3 21:14:10 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Sender verifcation References: <200311030137.05027@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FA678B3.7030804@speakeasy.net><200311031023.33896@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FA691F9.30000@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <007c01c3a281$b747e910$0201a8c0@brinstar> Chris Frederick writes: > Actually I'm in the process of switching to Comcast cable (with no > static ip), so I may just can the whole domain direct thing anyway. I > haven't been too thrilled with their service. You might try directNIC. Their $15/year domain registration includes free email forwarding (along with excellent customer service, best interface of any registrar I've tried, etc.). -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Nov 3 21:58:35 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition planning Message-ID: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I'm sure others have recieved this message recently... I've grown to use RedHat for most everything, just courious on what others think about RedHat's new plans. -------- Original Message -------- Dear jimstreit, Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer. This e-mail provides you with important information about the upcoming discontinuation of Red Hat Linux, and resources to assist you with your migration to another Red Hat solution. As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December 31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line. With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat Network customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as possible. Details: **************** If you purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic before February 28, 2004, you will receive 50% off the price for two years.[*] (That's two years for the price of one.) **************** In addition, we have created a Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center to address your migration planning and other questions, such as: * What are best practices for implementing the migration to Red Hat Enterprise Linux? * Are there other migration alternatives? * How do I purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic at the price above? * What if my paid subscription to RHN extends past April 30, 2004? **************** Find out more about your migration options with product comparisons, whitepapers and documentation at the Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center: http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn Or read the FAQ written especially for Red Hat Network customers: https://rhn.redhat.com/help/rhlmigrationfaq/ Sincerely, Red Hat, Inc. [*] Limit 10 units. Higher volume purchase inquiries should contact a regional Red Hat sales representative. Contact numbers available at http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn --the Red Hat Network Team _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Nov 3 22:00:53 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> Tom Penney writes: > I've always used just grep with the recursive flag like this. I'm > curious why would others want to complicate things with the find > command? There must be a reason everyone is suggesting to use find in > conjunction with grep when grep alone will do. Are they Masochists? > For style points? The --recursive option is a GNU extension. It is not specified by POSIX. Also, the recursive option of grep is very limited compared to find. You can do many, many more things with find. This is a good example of bloat that UNIX was designed to avoid. Individual programs like grep don't need the ability to recursively traverse paths, as this functionality can be better provided by other programs like find. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 3 22:49:02 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anti Virus Software for Linux Mailservers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311032249.02490@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Monday 03 November 2003 06:00 pm, Steve Swantz wrote: > We've been using RAV for the last year with good results, but since MS > acquired them and buried the Linux product our updates are about to come to > an end. > > Does anyone have any experience with Vexira (www.centralcommand.com)? It > looks like it would pretty much be a drop in replacement for RAV on our > Linux/Postfix setup. clamav http://clamav.elektrapro.com/ -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 3 22:49:54 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition planning In-Reply-To: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <200311032249.54038@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Monday 03 November 2003 09:58 pm, Jim Streit wrote: > I'm sure others have recieved this message recently... I've grown to use > RedHat for most everything, just courious on what others think about > RedHat's new plans. Open source is the key. Join and contribute. https://lists.dulug.duke.edu/mailman/listinfo/fedora-legacy-list -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.blevins at visi.com Mon Nov 3 22:19:28 2003 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 10:00:53PM -0600, David Phillips wrote: > This is a good example of bloat that UNIX was designed to avoid. Individual > programs like grep don't need the ability to recursively traverse paths, as > this functionality can be better provided by other programs like find. This is a pretty interesting subject. Some time ago, someone posted a few zsh commands that were pretty powerful. File globbing is built right into the shell. If you have zsh installed, type these commands for fun: zsh # startup the shell ls **/**.html grep "foobar" **/**.html I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable in zsh can boast about it's capabilities, but I know I'm impressed. If that feature was in bash, I'd use it practically everyday. -David _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 02:17:59 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20031104081759.GV753@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 11:19:28PM -0500, David Blevins wrote: > > This is a pretty interesting subject. Some time ago, someone posted a few zsh commands that were pretty powerful. File globbing is built right into the shell. If you have zsh installed, type these commands for fun: > > zsh # startup the shell > > ls **/**.html > > grep "foobar" **/**.html > > > I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable in zsh can boast about it's capabilities, but I know I'm impressed. If that feature was in bash, I'd use it practically everyday. > What are the intended results? Bash has done that for as long as I can remember # ls **/**.html arptalk/index.html bt/Greetings_From_Planejumper.html html/brokenxp.html html/electricity.html html/index.html html/moos.html mail/test.html Mail/test.html You can tell the shell does it by .. # echo **/**.html arptalk/index.html bt/Greetings_From_Planejumper.html html/brokenxp.html html/electricity.html html/index.html html/moos.html mail/test.html Mail/test.html This is why hitting * and pressing enter is a bad thing =) # * -bash: tmp: command not found -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Tue Nov 4 07:14:00 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition planning In-Reply-To: <200311032249.54038@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <200311032249.54038@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <1067951640.9022.2.camel@tankgrrl> I'm sticking with Fedora for now. If it takes off it could be better than Redhat ever was... If not...hmmm...Debian? Mandrake? Which direction? Maybe both. Brady > On Monday 03 November 2003 09:58 pm, Jim Streit wrote: > > I'm sure others have recieved this message recently... I've grown to use > > RedHat for most everything, just courious on what others think about > > RedHat's new plans. > > Open source is the key. Join and contribute. > > https://lists.dulug.duke.edu/mailman/listinfo/fedora-legacy-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue Nov 4 07:28:04 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anti Virus Software for Linux Mailservers In-Reply-To: <200311032249.02490@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: >> We've been using RAV for the last year with good results, but since MS >> acquired them and buried the Linux product our updates are about to >> come to >> an end. >> > > clamav > > http://clamav.elektrapro.com/ > I too have been using RAV for the last two years, and Ive been happy with it. I have been planning on switching my two mail servers over to ClamAV, perhaps even this weekend. Just wanted to throw another vote in for ClamAV. duncan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.blevins at visi.com Tue Nov 4 06:32:15 2003 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <20031104081759.GV753@techmonkeys.org> References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> <20031104081759.GV753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104123215.GA4573@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:17:59AM -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 11:19:28PM -0500, David Blevins wrote: > > > > This is a pretty interesting subject. Some time ago, someone posted a few zsh commands that were pretty powerful. File globbing is built right into the shell. If you have zsh installed, type these commands for fun: > > > > zsh # startup the shell > > > > ls **/**.html > > > > grep "foobar" **/**.html > > > > > > I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable in zsh can boast about it's capabilities, but I know I'm impressed. If that feature was in bash, I'd use it practically everyday. > > > > > What are the intended results? Bash has done that for as long as I can remember > The results are identical to a find command. $ find ./ -name "*.html" ./abc/asdf/foo.html ./abc/asdf/test.html ./abc/bar.html ./test.html ./xyz/qwer/oofrab.html ./xyz/test.html $ bash $ ls **/**.html abc/bar.html xyz/test.html $ zsh $ ls **/**.html abc/asdf/foo.html abc/bar.html xyz/qwer/oofrab.html abc/asdf/test.html test.html xyz/test.html I don't use zsh, but it's certainly an attractive feature. -David _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Nov 4 07:47:46 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition planning In-Reply-To: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <3FA7AE02.2070300@visi.com> Sounds like a subscription. I'm not fond of subscriptions for software, sort of like the fruit of the month club thing. Being secure is a good thing. Updating for the sake of updating is just weird. It's like a "keeping up with the Jones" kind of thing. If it aint broke (and it's secure) don't fix it. Sam. Jim Streit wrote: >I'm sure others have recieved this message recently... I've grown to use >RedHat for most everything, just courious on what others think about >RedHat's new plans. > >-------- Original Message -------- >Dear jimstreit, > >Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer. > >This e-mail provides you with important information about the upcoming >discontinuation of Red Hat Linux, and resources to assist you with your >migration to another Red Hat solution. > >As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and >errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December >31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for >Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release >another product in the Red Hat Linux line. > >With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll >find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand >that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning > and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat >Network customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as > >possible. Details: > >**************** >If you purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic before February >28, 2004, you will receive 50% off the price for two years.[*] (That's >two years for the price of one.) > >**************** >In addition, we have created a Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center >to address your migration planning and other questions, such as: > >* What are best practices for implementing the migration to Red Hat > Enterprise Linux? > >* Are there other migration alternatives? > >* How do I purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic at the price > above? > >* What if my paid subscription to RHN extends past April 30, 2004? > >**************** > >Find out more about your migration options with product comparisons, >whitepapers and documentation at the Red Hat Linux Migration Resource >Center: > > http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn > > >Or read the FAQ written especially for Red Hat Network customers: > > https://rhn.redhat.com/help/rhlmigrationfaq/ > >Sincerely, > >Red Hat, Inc. > > >[*] Limit 10 units. Higher volume purchase inquiries should contact a > regional Red Hat sales representative. Contact numbers available at >http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn > >--the Red Hat Network Team > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Tue Nov 4 08:09:28 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions Message-ID: <3FA7B318.4080306@charter.net> A couple of new Debian user questions: I installed woody as a base system and did a apt-get dist-upgrade to move to sarge. The upgrade went find and I did a '/sbin/lilo' before I rebooted for the new 2.4 kernel. On reboot, the screen started scrolling zeros. Not even a LI which would mean a mis-configured LILO. How did I hork up the boot record? Second question, now that I have reinstalled woody. I tried to start X and it told me no X was available. A basic install of the desktop environment does not give me a basic X, even in VGA mode? Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mjn at umn.edu Tue Nov 4 08:19:21 2003 From: mjn at umn.edu (mjn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... Message-ID: With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought would be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since 6.0? It is doing web serving (php, perl) as well as running nagios, majordomo, and mailman. nothing terribly fancy. What are people's thoughts? -- _______________________________________________ Mike Neuharth ADCS Technology Specialist http://www.umn.edu/adcs =============================================== E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com _______________________________________________ "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Tue Nov 4 08:36:17 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition planning References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <003201c3a2e1$077734e0$0300000a@net.tsinks> This will take out the single computer/home user as it appears now with the WS version the cost will be the same as the old Professional with everything. That makes it easy to sell with just 3 types, but Big Blue must have swung thier weight around in this decision. The rumor a while back was that Big Blue was going to absorb RH. If that's the case there could be a M$ type of software/OS around. Like someone said, a software of the month club. The $50 - $70 package or free was just fine for my laptop and home computer. Both are running dual. My old desktop (Pentium No Number) on RH6.2 and my laptop on RH9. The Work Station is too much stuff and too much cost for casual usage. It's built for programmers and varied professionals from the discription. So I have a few months to figure this all out and pick something to land with. Keep looking up, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Streit" To: Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition planning > I'm sure others have recieved this message recently... I've grown to use > RedHat for most everything, just courious on what others think about > RedHat's new plans. > > -------- Original Message -------- > Dear jimstreit, > > Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Nov 4 08:56:39 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell buys Suse Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B2F9@ipserver2.interplastic.com> See: "http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/2003110401526NWBZSS" "Novell today announced it has entered into an agreement to acquire SUSE LINUX, one of the world's leading enterprise Linux companies, expanding Novell's ability to provide enterprise-class services and support on the Linux platform. With the open source expertise of SUSE LINUX and Novell's world-class networking and identity solutions and support, training and consulting services, Novell will be able to deliver Linux and all its components--from the server to the desktop - and give organizations a secure, reliable and mature Linux foundation. Novell will pay $210 million in cash to complete the acquisition. The transaction is subject to regulatory approval and the winding up of shareholder agreements. Novell expects the transaction to close by the end of its first fiscal quarter (January 2004). "This latest move follows Novell's August purchase of Ximian, a leader in Linux server and desktop solutions, and further demonstrates Novell's ongoing commitment to provide customers a full range of Linux solutions. Both the Ximian and SUSE LINUX acquisitions affirm Novell's commitment to promoting the open source model and developer community. "Novell today also announced that IBM intends to make a $50 million investment in Novell convertible preferred stock. In addition, Novell and IBM are negotiating extensions to the current commercial agreements between IBM and SUSE LINUX for the continued support of SUSE LINUX on IBM's eServer products and middleware products to provide for product and marketing support arrangements related to SUSE LINUX. Both of these agreements will be effective when the acquisition of SUSE LINUX by Novell is completed..." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From eh at constantdata.com Tue Nov 4 09:01:21 2003 From: eh at constantdata.com (Abderrahman El Haddi.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE Message-ID: Well! Well! It did happen, Novell with help from Big Blue is buying SUSE. --elhaddi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Nov 4 09:07:01 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: Message-ID: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> mjn writes: > With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought > would be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running > RH since 6.0? Debian. You will wish you had switched years ago. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Tue Nov 4 09:01:12 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell to purchase Suse, where does that leave KDE? Message-ID: <200311040901.13067@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> If I remember right, many of the core KDE developers are Suse employees. Right? Now Novell is purchasing Suse, and they already bought Ximian, where does that leave kde? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue Nov 4 09:23:51 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 08:19 AM, mjn wrote: > With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought > would > be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since > 6.0? > How about Fedora? http://fedora.redhat.com/ "The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported product of Red Hat, Inc. " _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue Nov 4 09:23:51 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 08:19 AM, mjn wrote: > With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought > would > be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since > 6.0? > How about Fedora? http://fedora.redhat.com/ "The Fedora Project is a Red-Hat-sponsored and community-supported open source project. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported product of Red Hat, Inc. " _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Nov 4 09:21:33 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions References: <3FA7B318.4080306@charter.net> Message-ID: <007901c3a2e7$54b3f210$0201a8c0@brinstar> Perry Hoekstra writes: > I installed woody as a base system and did a apt-get dist-upgrade to > move to sarge. The upgrade went find and I did a '/sbin/lilo' before > I rebooted for the new 2.4 kernel. On reboot, the screen started > scrolling zeros. Not even a LI which would mean a mis-configured > LILO. How did I hork up the boot record? Did you install an initrd kernel and not configure lilo for it? When you install a stock 2.4 initrd kernel, it should give you instructions on how to configure lilo. > Second question, now that I have reinstalled woody. I tried to start > X and it told me no X was available. A basic install of the desktop > environment does not give me a basic X, even in VGA mode? You probably want to upgrade to unstable, as the X server in woody is two years old. Install the xserver-xfree86 and xbase-clients packages. http://people.debian.org/~branden/xsf/FAQ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Nov 4 09:45:36 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One of the cool features (I think) of Red Hat is the Red Hat Network. I have a small server running RH9 for mail, web mail and simple web page hosting. When I learn from Red Hat or CERT that vulnerabilities have been patched, I run up2date and have the latest versions; and for a pretty modest fee. Now they want $349 a year? I think the $179 WS desktop version "isn't for servers" so updates to Apache, sendmail and such probably won't be updated. Bah. I think as long as RPM's are still readily and quickly available, it will still be fairly easy to update Fedora. Hmmm.... Perhaps there's an oppotunity for a small agile company to simply provide a server for up2date to connect to for a cheaper fee. I think it's time to try Fedora on my laptop. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 4 09:41:52 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> David Phillips wrote: > mjn writes: > >>With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought >>would be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running >>RH since 6.0? > > > Debian. You will wish you had switched years ago. > I'm actually pretty curious here. Have you used them both, especially in recent incarnations? I haven't, but I can honestly say that RedHat is extremely good. I'm having a hard time understanding what it might be that would make debian so much better (other than the niggling little detail that RedHat is going away pretty soon...). Note that apt is not a sufficient answer - apt4rpm seems to have addressed that issue pretty well. Thanks, Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Tue Nov 4 09:51:03 2003 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: Message-ID: <00d601c3a2eb$74f58e90$471b49c0@chief> Fedora. Lots of community support and QA resources from the folks @ RedHat. http://fedora.redhat.com/ Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "mjn" To: "Twirling Pickles of Death" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: [TCLUG] input... > With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought would > be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since > 6.0? > > It is doing web serving (php, perl) as well as running nagios, majordomo, > and mailman. nothing terribly fancy. > > What are people's thoughts? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > =============================================== > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > _______________________________________________ > "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture > whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, > from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical > with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Nov 4 10:10:18 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> Kent Schumacher writes: > Note that apt is not a sufficient answer - apt4rpm seems to have > addressed that issue pretty well. Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before apt-get existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to automatically install software is merely a feature that the packaging system allows. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 10:12:15 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com>; from kent@structural-wood.com on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:41:52AM -0600 References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031104101215.B13350@real-time.com> On 11/04 09:41 , Kent Schumacher wrote: > Note that apt is not a sufficient answer - apt4rpm seems to have addressed > that issue pretty well. no, apt4rpm has not fully addressed the issue. Debian has a much better quality-control process in place for packages (it's older and more mature), such that they work better with apt. on RedHat-based systems, apt is an afterthought; and while the quality of RPMs (both RH and 3rd-party packages) has gotten much better over the years, there's still an issue that will pop up to bite you here and there, because the packages weren't always built with apt installs and upgrades in mind. (yes, debian unstable breaks sometimes. that's why it's called 'unstable'). also, Debian packages have a very nice configuration system during the install process; while RPMs specifically avoid trying to do that. (You can adjust the configuration detail level, or even turn it off if need be, in Debian.) that all said; there's fewer differences than there used to be, and I don't think RedHat is as bad a choice as it used to be... until now, with the end of commercial support. (I have my doubts that Fedora will be anywhere near ready to step into its place anytime soon). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 4 10:19:12 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Red Hat References: Message-ID: <3FA7D180.2060105@structural-wood.com> Chris Schumann wrote: > One of the cool features (I think) of Red Hat is the Red Hat Network. I have > a small server running RH9 for mail, web mail and simple web page hosting. > > When I learn from Red Hat or CERT that vulnerabilities have been patched, I > run up2date and have the latest versions; and for a pretty modest fee. Now > they want $349 a year? I think the $179 WS desktop version "isn't for > servers" so updates to Apache, sendmail and such probably won't be updated. > Bah. > > I think as long as RPM's are still readily and quickly available, it will > still be fairly easy to update Fedora. > > Hmmm.... Perhaps there's an oppotunity for a small agile company to simply > provide a server for up2date to connect to for a cheaper fee. > > I think it's time to try Fedora on my laptop. > > Chris > Go to freshrpms and get the apt4rpm rpms and install them. You can then do an 'apt-get install synaptic' to get a graphical front end to apt, and from there you can keep your system 'up2date' pretty easily. You can point apt to any repository that works for you, although you apparently need to be carefull about mixing repositories. Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Tue Nov 4 09:51:06 2003 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Anybody have a copy of Xandros? Message-ID: I've been looking at Desktop oriented distros and Xandros has caught my eye. Anybody have a copy I can try out? Thanks, Bruce Bruce Broecker Network Comm Supervisor The Toro Company _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jim at herrick.net Tue Nov 4 09:51:03 2003 From: jim at herrick.net (Jim Herrick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: Message-ID: <00d601c3a2eb$74f58e90$471b49c0@chief> Fedora. Lots of community support and QA resources from the folks @ RedHat. http://fedora.redhat.com/ Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "mjn" To: "Twirling Pickles of Death" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: [TCLUG] input... > With Redhat expiring in April, I was wondering what people thought would > be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since > 6.0? > > It is doing web serving (php, perl) as well as running nagios, majordomo, > and mailman. nothing terribly fancy. > > What are people's thoughts? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > =============================================== > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > _______________________________________________ > "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture > whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, > from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical > with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Nov 4 09:58:42 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031104155842.GY3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 11:02:45 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <3FA7B318.4080306@charter.net> References: <3FA7B318.4080306@charter.net> Message-ID: <20031104170245.GB753@techmonkeys.org> No offense, but perhaps you should avoid using obsolete software. install grub. (and if debian doesn't make that friendly enough, install something that does) As for B, decent distributions configure X for you (automatically most the time) during setup. On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:09:28AM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > A couple of new Debian user questions: -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 4 10:46:25 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FA7D7E1.2010902@structural-wood.com> David Phillips wrote: > Kent Schumacher writes: > >>Note that apt is not a sufficient answer - apt4rpm seems to have >>addressed that issue pretty well. > > > Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before apt-get > existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality > packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to automatically > install software is merely a feature that the packaging system allows. > It seems to me that the central statement 'Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality packages that meet strict guidelines' is also true of RedHat. As someone who is also trying to steer a course through an unknown future, I'm honestly interested in why you are recommending Debian, so much so that you stated 'You will wish you had switched years ago'. What is the big attraction that Debian has? Note that I am picking on you specifically David, because not only are you strongly opinionated, you are also pretty damn good at providing logical reasons (and sometimes even references) for your opinions. Thanks, Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Tue Nov 4 10:45:02 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> I've used Slackware, RedHat, Turbo, Debian, Xandros, and others. I prefer Debian for any system that I am going to be maintaining over time because the quality of the packaging has beat every other distro I have used by a large margin. Yeah, they have had problems with installation, but you don't need to install as often. I've had to do full reinstalls to upgrade most every other distro (including SuSE 7.2-8.1, I was shocked by that one). apt4rpm comes close, but the consistency of rpm package dependencies doesn't seem to be where the deb package dependencies are, and proper dependency management is THE make-or-break proposition for a packaging system. That said, for a desktop system that is going to be fairly static (say one that is on RH7 now) I'd suggest going with Xandros or SuSE of the distro's I've used. David Phillips wrote: > Kent Schumacher writes: > >>Note that apt is not a sufficient answer - apt4rpm seems to have >>addressed that issue pretty well. > > > Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before apt-get > existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality > packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to automatically > install software is merely a feature that the packaging system allows. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Tue Nov 4 11:15:31 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067966131.29006.4.camel@lotsa> On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 08:19, mjn wrote: > With Redhat expiring in April, Did I mess something? What do you mean RedHat is expiring in April? - Tom > I was wondering what people thought would > be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since > 6.0? > > It is doing web serving (php, perl) as well as running nagios, majordomo, > and mailman. nothing terribly fancy. > > What are people's thoughts? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Mike Neuharth > ADCS Technology Specialist > http://www.umn.edu/adcs > =============================================== > E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > _______________________________________________ > "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture > whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to extract, > from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is identical > with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From list at slushpupie.com Tue Nov 4 11:43:03 2003 From: list at slushpupie.com (Jay Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA7D7E1.2010902@structural-wood.com> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D7E1.2010902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031104174303.GF27098@slushpupie.com> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 10:46:25AM -0600, Kent Schumacher (kent@structural-wood.com) wrote: > David Phillips wrote: > >Kent Schumacher writes: > >>Note that apt is not a sufficient answer - apt4rpm seems to have > >>addressed that issue pretty well. > > > >Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before apt-get > >existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality > >packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to automatically > >install software is merely a feature that the packaging system allows. > > > It seems to me that the central statement 'Debian is about free software, > distributed as high quality packages that meet strict guidelines' is also > true of RedHat. This is not entirely true. Redhat very frequently packages software the is not ready to go out, and they send it to production systems (I think many people will remember the whole gcc thing a while back). The complaint many people have about debian stable is its "out of date" but that is because a package needs to prove that there are no problems with it. There are little things that sometimes slip through, but they have a much better track record than any other distro I know. > As someone who is also trying to steer a course through an unknown future, > I'm honestly interested in why you are recommending Debian, so much so that > you stated 'You will wish you had switched years ago'. What is the big > attraction that Debian has? One thing I really like about it is the number of packages it has in its repository. Sure, there is apt4rpm, but you are still left searching for packages elsewhere, or compiling them yourself. It has many, many alternatives for the same functionality in lots of cases. Of course, if you dont care about having those choices (and there are a lot of desktop users who dont) then the whole apt repository for debian becomes a burden (too many choices). Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 12:06:09 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> > Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before apt-get > existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality > packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to automatically > install software is merely a feature that the packaging system allows. Debian is about force feeding you GNU, debian is about forcing you to take the hard path to prove your manhood, debian is about making you either run an out of date system (stable), a broken system (unstable), or an up to date but probably broken system (testing). Debian is about doing stupid things like having a install disc that supports ext3, and allows you to format the partition as ext3, then boots with a kernel that has no ext3 support. (or selecting packages to install during setup, installing them, and ignoring dependancies, leaving you trying to find the package that contains some random library) Debian is about leaving you to screw with an archaic version of XF86 that might support the video card you bought 3 years ago, if you can still find the example config on google. Debian is about leaving out software that doesn't meet their strict manly standards. Debian isn't meant for the desktop of your (now)typical linux user, and it probably won't ever be. To conclude: somebox:~# dpkg -h Usage: [...] Use `dselect' for user-friendly package management. somebox:~# I think that sums it up. Yes, I'm sick of the sudden jump in debian zealotry, if you're using redhat then you'll be fine with Fedora. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Tue Nov 4 11:45:05 2003 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone used Mepis? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA7E5A1.1030409@goldengate.net> http://www.mepis.org/ Has anyone out there tried the Mepis distro? Debian based, runs live from CD Knoppix-like or has user-friendly install to hard drive. -- Cheers, Charlie Obert " There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance." - R. Buckminster Fuller _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Tue Nov 4 11:22:21 2003 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 11:57:51 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104170245.GB753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7B318.4080306@charter.net> <20031104170245.GB753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > No offense, but perhaps you should avoid using obsolete software. In some cases, such as a 2tb+ root filesystem, grub apparently doesn't work yet. Of course, grub is a nicer default that lilo. > install grub. (and if debian doesn't make that friendly enough, install > something that does) 'apt-get install grub' installs it; /sbin/upgrade-grub will create a menu.lst for you, with all your kernels listed. > As for B, decent distributions configure X for you (automatically most > the time) during setup. all depends on what your definition of a 'decent distribution' is. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 12:19:09 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> Message-ID: <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> > I prefer Debian for any system that I am going to be maintaining over > time because the quality of the packaging has beat every other distro I > have used by a large margin. Please clearly define 'quality of packaging' were they the high grade nuclear electrons, as opposed to the coal produced electrons? > Yeah, they have had problems with installation, but you don't need to > install as often. I've had to do full reinstalls to upgrade most every > other distro (including SuSE 7.2-8.1, I was shocked by that one). Pardon? At worst, I've had to pop in a CD and go through upgrade mode, it's definitely not a reinstall. > apt4rpm comes close, but the consistency of rpm package dependencies > doesn't seem to be where the deb package dependencies are, and proper > dependency management is THE make-or-break proposition for a packaging > system. *Please* will someone explain this dependencies issue? People like to spout 'dependancy hell', 'dependency consistency' etc. without ever providing any meat. It's like a marketing buzzword. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 12:12:28 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104174303.GF27098@slushpupie.com> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D7E1.2010902@structural-wood.com> <20031104174303.GF27098@slushpupie.com> Message-ID: <20031104181228.GD753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 11:43:03AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: > This is not entirely true. Redhat very frequently packages software the > is not ready to go out, and they send it to production systems (I think > many people will remember the whole gcc thing a while back). The Please give precise examples, I've never had a problem like this, and I never had a problem with the "broken gcc". > One thing I really like about it is the number of packages it has in its > repository. What good is it if it's very old? -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Tue Nov 4 12:41:50 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerald Skerbitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104170245.GB753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> I've heard the recommendation of grub many times on this list and it's inspired me several times to try to install it but I've been unsuccessful. I find the interface to be a nightmare even if it is more powerful. The fact that the 3rd question in the FAQ is incomprehensible to a newbie is a clue that there's a steep learning curve to getting to the point where you can use grub effectively. 3. Can I put Stage2 into a partition which is over 1024 cylinders? That's why I don't like grub. How about answering the question, "if I'm sitting at a grub prompt and there's this list of lines of what? Comamnds? Options? Kernels? (it doesn't say) What do I do?" It's not even in the FAQ. It's not presented in any step by step way in the docs either. You have to read to the bottom of the documentation to understand it. If my newbie admin is sitting at a boot prompt in lilo, I can tell them to type linux init=/bin/sh You can do SOMETHING. Grub? Help me out here.....where is that information? The lilo mini-HOWTO has (in this order) 1. a quick introduction, 2.background info and standard install, 2. 1 where should I install it? 2.2 how should i configure my ide hard drive and ..... 2.3 How Can I Interact at Boot Time? When you see the Lilo prompt, you can hit the key to show the list of possible choices. If Lilo is not configured to be interactive, press and hold the or key before the ``LILO'' message appears. etc... I say don't recommend grub to newbies. lilo is better understood and better documented. Grub is for doing hard things. Installing it may be easy but using it is not. They clearly make the hard possible and the easy hard. I've composed a message like this many times and not sent it, but I just wanted it heard on this list that grub, for me, is confusing and hard, so if you find it confusing and hard, it might not be you -- it might be grub. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > No offense, but perhaps you should avoid using obsolete software. > > install grub. (and if debian doesn't make that friendly enough, install > something that does) > > As for B, decent distributions configure X for you (automatically most > the time) during setup. > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:09:28AM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > A couple of new Debian user questions: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 13:03:21 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> References: <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <3FA7F7F9.8070605@comcast.net> IBM had a GRUB beginners tutorial, and I grabbed the PDF version of it. You can find it on IBM's web site or here: http://auditodd.home.comcast.net/Opensource/linux-grub-bootloader.pdf To be honest, I haven't gone through it yet, but I have read through it and it seems to be pretty good. GRUB with SuSE8.2 works great. Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > I've heard the recommendation of grub many times on this list and it's > inspired me several times to try to install it but I've been > unsuccessful. > > I find the interface to be a nightmare even if it is more powerful. > > The fact that the 3rd question in the FAQ is incomprehensible to a > newbie is a clue that there's a steep learning curve to getting to the > point where you can use grub effectively. > 3. Can I put Stage2 into a partition which is over 1024 cylinders? > > That's why I don't like grub. > > How about answering the question, "if I'm sitting at a grub prompt and > there's this list of lines of what? Comamnds? Options? Kernels? (it > doesn't say) What do I do?" It's not even in the FAQ. It's not presented > in any step by step way in the docs either. You have to read to the > bottom of the documentation to understand it. > > If my newbie admin is sitting at a boot prompt in lilo, I can tell them to > type linux init=/bin/sh > > You can do SOMETHING. Grub? Help me out here.....where is that > information? > > The lilo mini-HOWTO has (in this order) 1. a quick introduction, > 2.background info and standard install, 2. 1 where should I install it? > 2.2 how should i configure my ide hard drive and ..... > > 2.3 How Can I Interact at Boot Time? > > When you see the Lilo prompt, you can hit the key to show the list > of possible choices. If Lilo is not configured to be interactive, press > and hold the or key before the ``LILO'' message appears. > etc... > > I say don't recommend grub to newbies. lilo is better understood and > better documented. Grub is for doing hard things. Installing it may be > easy but using it is not. They clearly make the hard possible and the > easy hard. > > I've composed a message like this many times and not sent it, but I just > wanted it heard on this list that grub, for me, is confusing and hard, so > if you find it confusing and hard, it might not be you -- it might be > grub. > > -- > Gerry Skerbitz > gsker@tcfreenet.org > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > >>No offense, but perhaps you should avoid using obsolete software. >> >>install grub. (and if debian doesn't make that friendly enough, install >>something that does) >> >>As for B, decent distributions configure X for you (automatically most >>the time) during setup. >> >>On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:09:28AM -0600, Perry Hoekstra wrote: >> >>>A couple of new Debian user questions: > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 13:07:19 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:19:09PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104130719.L13350@real-time.com> > *Please* will someone explain this dependencies issue? People like to > spout 'dependancy hell', 'dependency consistency' etc. without ever > providing any meat. It's like a marketing buzzword. the ones that really irritated me, were when RH moved a file from one package to another (something to do with 'arts' and something with X fonts come to mind, but I can't remember the specific examples anymore), between minor versions of the distro (between RH7.2 and 7.3). you try upgrading one package; and it claims it can't because of a dependency on something else; which when your automated upgrade tool (I was using 'grab' at the time) tries to upgrade that package, it seems to depend on the first. were there problems with the tool? yes. even so, this was very irritating, and poor form to change packages like that in a minor release, IMHO. at least we don't see packages from RH that need to be built as root. (one shouldn't be root when compiling an RPM; but I'm sure I saw one or two examples of that back in the RH6.2 days). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 13:30:19 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:06:09PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> On 11/04 12:06 , Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Debian is about force feeding you GNU, if that's true, why do they have the 'nonfree' repository? what about all the 3rd-party repositories for packages that don't come close to being free? like this one, straight from my sources.list: # w32 codecs, incl. quicktime deb http://marillat.free.fr unstable main > debian is about forcing you to take the hard path to prove your manhood, I fail to see what's so hard about using Debian. debian on the command-line is about as easy to use as RH on the command line; just that files are in different places (and IMHO, more sensible ones on Debian). Does Debian have many distro-specific GUI tools for system configuration? no; that's not their goal. they want to use generally-available, non-distro-specific tools, instead of wasting effort duplicating someone else's work. Besides, once you do without those tools for a while, you realize how much they end up hampering you in the long run. (tho they definitely have a good value for the new administrator). Does this conflict with the way some people think the world should work? yes. However, the beauty of Free software is that you can choose to go your own way. :) > debian is about making you either run > an out of date system (stable), a broken system (unstable), or an up to date > but probably broken system (testing). that's not an entirely inaccurate assesment; but that said, things usually don't stay broken for long in Unstable. > Yes, I'm sick of the sudden jump in debian zealotry, if you're using redhat > then you'll be fine with Fedora. probably. it's the simplest upgrade path, and hopefully the least painful... but I don't have full faith in the Fedora organization to *not* become another Debian, just with a different package format. (and a lot less maturity in their quality-control process, since they're newer). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 13:32:13 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> References: <20031104170245.GB753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <20031104193213.GF753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:41:50PM -0600, Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > I've heard the recommendation of grub many times on this list and it's > inspired me several times to try to install it but I've been > unsuccessful. This is exactly why your distributions installer should do it for you. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Nov 4 13:40:50 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B301@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom [mailto:chrome@real-time.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:30 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] input... > > > On 11/04 12:06 , Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Debian is about force feeding you GNU, > > if that's true, why do they have the 'nonfree' repository? > what about all the 3rd-party repositories for packages that > don't come close > to being free? > like this one, straight from my sources.list: > # w32 codecs, incl. quicktime > deb http://marillat.free.fr unstable main > > > > debian is about forcing you to take the hard path to prove > your manhood, > > I fail to see what's so hard about using Debian. debian on > the command-line > is about as easy to use as RH on the command line; just that > files are in > different places (and IMHO, more sensible ones on Debian). File locations really should be standardized accross all distros. For a group of people (Linux enthusiasts) that preach standards, it seems strange to me that such a standard is not in place. Or if there is, seemingly it is ignored. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Tue Nov 4 13:35:11 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before apt-get > > existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high quality > > packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to automatically > > install software is merely a feature that the packaging system allows. > > Debian is about force feeding you GNU, debian is about forcing you to take > the hard path to prove your manhood, debian is about making you either run > an out of date system (stable), a broken system (unstable), or an up to date > but probably broken system (testing). > These comments leads me to believe you have never used debian. If you have, you would have a much better understanding of how the debian process works. I have been running unstable on my desktops, testing on my internal servers, and stable on my external servers for years without any major problems. > Debian is about doing stupid things like having a install disc that > supports ext3, and allows you to format the partition as ext3, then boots > with a kernel that has no ext3 support. (or selecting packages to install > during setup, installing them, and ignoring dependancies, leaving you > trying to find the package that contains some random library) > OK. I think the "debian installer leaves a little to be desired" arguement has been covered. Personally I have never had problems with it, so it must not be that bad. > Debian is about leaving you to screw with an archaic version of XF86 that > might support the video card you bought 3 years ago, if you can still find > the example config on google. What are you taking about? Yes, the version is stable is old, but doesn't mean you have to use it. Update your sources.list and upgrade to a newer version. Do you ever understand _why_ stable is so old? > Debian is about leaving out software that doesn't meet their strict manly > standards. Again, I'm lost. > Debian isn't meant for the desktop of your (now)typical linux user, > and it probably won't ever be. And again. Is it just me here? I guess I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, but... > To conclude: > > somebox:~# dpkg -h > Usage: > [...] > > Use `dselect' for user-friendly package management. > somebox:~# > > I think that sums it up. > Oh, nevermind. You got me. > > > Yes, I'm sick of the sudden jump in debian zealotry, if you're using redhat > then you'll be fine with Fedora. Why does that make you sick? Has Debian done something against you personally? And no, I'm not a Debian zealot. I use them all, Debian, Redhat, Mandrake, Gentoo, even FreeBSD. During my day job I use HP-UX, Solaris, AIX. Sure I prefer some over others, but I don't criticize others for using something I don't. There isn't a perfect distro out there for everyone, so let's not make it sound like there is. But with so many Debian users oh so happy, it they must be doing something right. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Tue Nov 4 13:53:46 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D378C@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Not every one wants the installer to do everything for them....even in windows there are many things I prefer to tweak on my own... Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces+dan.lansing=andersencorp.com@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces+dan.lansing=andersencorp.com@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Matthew S. Hallacy Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:32 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions This is exactly why your distributions installer should do it for you. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 13:39:02 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104130719.L13350@real-time.com> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104130719.L13350@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031104193902.GG753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:07:19PM -0600, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > the ones that really irritated me, were when RH moved a file from one > package to another (something to do with 'arts' and something with X fonts > come to mind, but I can't remember the specific examples anymore), between > minor versions of the distro (between RH7.2 and 7.3). Sounds like they were trying to be more consistant. > you try upgrading one package; and it claims it can't because of a > dependency on something else; which when your automated upgrade tool (I was > using 'grab' at the time) tries to upgrade that package, it seems to depend > on the first. What's wrong with that? Some things depend on each other, and should be installed at the same time, but shouldn't necessarily be the same package. Some people have no concept of rpm -Uh XF86 probably isn't very useful without XF86-fonts, and XF86-fonts probably isn't very useful without XF86, for example. I'd hate to have to download the entire XF86 package any time something in the font package was modified though. You don't notice that debian does the same thing because you're using apt, if you use apt under redhat it does the same deps resolution for you (as does up2date, and the various other frontends to RPM) > were there problems with the tool? yes. even so, this was very irritating, > and poor form to change packages like that in a minor release, IMHO. That's not an issue with a tool, it's user error =) > at least we don't see packages from RH that need to be built as root. (one > shouldn't be root when compiling an RPM; but I'm sure I saw one or two > examples of that back in the RH6.2 days). 6.2 is ancient =) > Carl Soderstrom. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Tue Nov 4 14:11:08 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FA807DC.4070503@argle.org> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >>I prefer Debian for any system that I am going to be maintaining over >>time because the quality of the packaging has beat every other distro I >>have used by a large margin. > > > Please clearly define 'quality of packaging' were they the high grade > nuclear electrons, as opposed to the coal produced electrons? > The way the software packages are put together. Not as in plastic and cardboard, but the .deb or .rpm files themselves. > >>Yeah, they have had problems with installation, but you don't need to >>install as often. I've had to do full reinstalls to upgrade most every >>other distro (including SuSE 7.2-8.1, I was shocked by that one). > > > Pardon? At worst, I've had to pop in a CD and go through upgrade mode, > it's definitely not a reinstall. > My last SuSE upgrade ended up being a start over affair. I don't know exactly why, but the normal upgrade routine failed to realize that it was upgrading and started breaking stuff. NOTE: _always_ backup your home directories immediately before doing a major OS upgrade. It is a major lifesaver! > >>apt4rpm comes close, but the consistency of rpm package dependencies >>doesn't seem to be where the deb package dependencies are, and proper >>dependency management is THE make-or-break proposition for a packaging >>system. > > > *Please* will someone explain this dependencies issue? People like to > spout 'dependancy hell', 'dependency consistency' etc. without ever > providing any meat. It's like a marketing buzzword. > I forget that there are relative newbies present, sorry. Dependencies are the software packages that are required to make the package you are installing work. For instance Mozilla depends on libgtk (I think) which depend on X11 which depends on libc. How easy or hard a package manager is to use depends A LOT on how well it handles these chains of dependencies. Get something in the wrong order and your whole installation can end up horked while you have to sort things out by hand. There are two parts to dependency management: 1. How good packages are about listing their key dependencies. In my experience .deb packages are better in this. I don't know why, as there is no technical reason why they should be. 2. How good the package manager is about handling packages in dependency order. dselect+apt rocks in this area, though the UI is not what I would call endearing. Most of the "nice" package management frontends come up short in this area for me. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 14:19:11 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:30:19PM -0600, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > if that's true, why do they have the 'nonfree' repository? > what about all the 3rd-party repositories for packages that don't come close > to being free? > like this one, straight from my sources.list: > # w32 codecs, incl. quicktime > deb http://marillat.free.fr unstable main Let me clarify, debian = what comes on the CD sets, from 'official' debian repositories. > > debian is about forcing you to take the hard path to prove your manhood, > > I fail to see what's so hard about using Debian. debian on the command-line > is about as easy to use as RH on the command line; just that files are in > different places (and IMHO, more sensible ones on Debian). > > Does Debian have many distro-specific GUI tools for system configuration? > no; that's not their goal. they want to use generally-available, > non-distro-specific tools, instead of wasting effort duplicating someone > else's work. Besides, once you do without those tools for a while, you > realize how much they end up hampering you in the long run. (tho they > definitely have a good value for the new administrator). I never use the config tools, I was referring to things like dselect, the lack of a basic XF86 configuration during install, hardware detection (ie, kudzu), a few prompts for system configuration during install... It would solve 90% of the install issues people have. A few other items include no skeleton equivalent of rc.local, lack of useful sample configuration files (depends on the package), poor documentation.. I think that's enough for now. Debian is built on the premise that you should have to do absolutely everything the most difficult way possible, perhaps to scare off any lowly creature that isn't worthy. > > debian is about making you either run > > an out of date system (stable), a broken system (unstable), or an up to date > > but probably broken system (testing). > > that's not an entirely inaccurate assesment; but that said, things usually > don't stay broken for long in Unstable. But everyone tells me how stable debian is.. ("only if you run -stable!"), it's useless if it doesn't have the functionality I need. > probably. it's the simplest upgrade path, and hopefully the least painful... > but I don't have full faith in the Fedora organization to *not* become > another Debian, just with a different package format. (and a lot less > maturity in their quality-control process, since they're newer). Simple? Please, it's like moving into a cardboard box from a townhouse. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Tue Nov 4 14:27:23 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] anyone used Mepis? In-Reply-To: <3FA7E5A1.1030409@goldengate.net> References: <3FA7E5A1.1030409@goldengate.net> Message-ID: <4C4DDD29-0F05-11D8-B548-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:45 AM, Charlie Obert wrote: > > http://www.mepis.org/ > > Has anyone out there tried the Mepis distro? Debian based, runs live > from CD Knoppix-like or has user-friendly install to hard drive. No, but Libranet is very cool stuff. > > -- > Cheers, > > Charlie Obert > > " There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis. > There is only a crisis of ignorance." > > - R. Buckminster Fuller > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens U.S. Admins, Inc Server Gumby _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Nov 4 13:34:30 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <1067966131.29006.4.camel@lotsa> References: <1067966131.29006.4.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <2285.65.116.187.194.1067974470.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Tom, this is what you missed, an e-mail reminder about RedHat's free version. ... As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December 31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release another product in the Red Hat Linux line. With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat Network customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as possible. Details: Or read the FAQ written especially for Red Hat Network customers: https://rhn.redhat.com/help/rhlmigrationfaq/ --the Red Hat Network Team > On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 08:19, mjn wrote: >> With Redhat expiring in April, > > Did I mess something? What do you mean RedHat is expiring in April? > > - Tom > >> I was wondering what people thought would >> be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since >> 6.0? >> >> It is doing web serving (php, perl) as well as running nagios, >> majordomo, and mailman. nothing terribly fancy. >> >> What are people's thoughts? >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Mike Neuharth >> ADCS Technology Specialist >> http://www.umn.edu/adcs >> =============================================== >> E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu >> Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com >> _______________________________________________ >> "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture >> whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to >> extract, from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is >> identical with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- > Tom Penney > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 14:51:20 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D378C@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D378C@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031104205120.GJ753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:53:46PM -0600, Lansing, Dan wrote: > Not every one wants the installer to do everything for them....even in windows there are many things I prefer to tweak on my own... > > Dan Lansing Select 'No' when it asks to install lilo or grub. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Tue Nov 4 14:42:45 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: <1067966131.29006.4.camel@lotsa> <2285.65.116.187.194.1067974470.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <007f01c3a314$3cb25760$d037630a@nic.target.com> I personally find this disturbing as Redhat controls development of much of the toolset including the kernel. This influence could be a bad thing for a company that is clearly becoming less community oriented. Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Streit" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] input... > Tom, this is what you missed, an e-mail reminder about RedHat's free version. > > ... As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and > errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December > 31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for > Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release > another product in the Red Hat Linux line. > > With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll > find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand > that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning > and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat Network > customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as > possible. Details: > > Or read the FAQ written especially for Red Hat Network customers: > > https://rhn.redhat.com/help/rhlmigrationfaq/ > > --the Red Hat Network Team > > > > > > On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 08:19, mjn wrote: > >> With Redhat expiring in April, > > > > Did I mess something? What do you mean RedHat is expiring in April? > > > > - Tom > > > >> I was wondering what people thought would > >> be a good replacement distro for someone who has been running RH since > >> 6.0? > >> > >> It is doing web serving (php, perl) as well as running nagios, > >> majordomo, and mailman. nothing terribly fancy. > >> > >> What are people's thoughts? > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mike Neuharth > >> ADCS Technology Specialist > >> http://www.umn.edu/adcs > >> =============================================== > >> E-Mail : mjn@umn.edu > >> Page Mail : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> "What is important, it seems to me, is not so much to defend a culture > >> whose existence has never kept a man from going hungry, as to > >> extract, from what is called culture, ideas whose compelling force is > >> identical with that of hunger." -Antonin Artaud > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > > Tom Penney > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 15:09:38 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B301@ipserver2.interplastic.com>; from rware@interplastic.com on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:40:50PM -0600 References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B301@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <20031104150938.U13350@real-time.com> On 11/04 01:40 , Ryan Ware wrote: > File locations really should be standardized accross all distros. For a > group of people (Linux enthusiasts) that preach standards, it seems strange > to me that such a standard is not in place. Or if there is, seemingly it is > ignored. you're right; they should. Another nice thing about Debian is that they were much closer to Linux Standard Base-compliancy, before most other distros. RedHat has done a lot to catch up lately tho. SuSE is still pretty wacky and nonstandard in a lot of ways; but getting better. Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 14:47:37 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:35:11PM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > These comments leads me to believe you have never used debian. If you > have, you would have a much better understanding of how the debian > process works. I run it on multiple systems, it wasn't my choice. I get a headache every time I have to touch them, and cringe in fear when I apt-get upgrade. > What are you taking about? Yes, the version is stable is old, but > doesn't mean you have to use it. Update your sources.list and upgrade > to a newer version. Do you ever understand _why_ stable is so old? Sorry, I need something that _is_ stable, but not old. The moment you mention that you're running anything but stable the typical reply is 'is you want stable, run stable!' Some people need to be able to install update and not worry about a sudden clusterfuck happening that takes down the systems primary function (http, smtp, nfs, etc) > Again, I'm lost. Pine/pico, the latest hissy fit on the debian lists about mplayer, etc. > > Debian isn't meant for the desktop of your (now)typical linux user, > > and it probably won't ever be. > > And again. Is it just me here? I guess I'm not the brightest bulb on > the tree, but... My mother can, and has installed Red Hat. She uses it without any problems. So does my girlfriend, and so do my little sisters (10, 13) I'm talking about _users_, not geeks. > > Use `dselect' for user-friendly package management. > Oh, nevermind. You got me. Calling dselect user friendly is a good measure of the 'user friendliness' of debian. Much like calling rat poison 'rat friendly' > Why does that make you sick? Has Debian done something against you > personally? I equate them with spam, telemarketers, and jehovahs witness. People attempting to force something upon you. > But with > so many Debian users oh so happy, it they must be doing something > right. There are so many happy MS/RedHat/*BSD/AIX/MacOS users, they must be doing something right. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 14:59:26 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA807DC.4070503@argle.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> <3FA807DC.4070503@argle.org> Message-ID: <20031104205926.GK753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:11:08PM -0600, Daniel Taylor wrote: > The way the software packages are put together. Not as in plastic and > cardboard, but the .deb or .rpm files themselves. Sorry, you missed the sarcasm, please give an example of what is superior about the debian package management system as compared to RPM. > >*Please* will someone explain this dependencies issue? People like to > >spout 'dependancy hell', 'dependency consistency' etc. without ever > >providing any meat. It's like a marketing buzzword. > > > I forget that there are relative newbies present, sorry. Ouch, was that an insult? > Get something in the wrong order and your > whole installation can end up horked while you have to sort things out > by hand. rpm doesn't allow you to do this, you would have to use --force and/or --nodeps. At this point you're on your own, and have no right to complain. > > There are two parts to dependency management: > 1. How good packages are about listing their key dependencies. In my > experience .deb packages are better in this. I don't know why, as > there is no technical reason why they should be. If foo needs bar, it needs it. Case closed. I see no reason why .deb should be better than .rpm at saying 'i need BAR' > 2. How good the package manager is about handling packages in dependency > order. dselect+apt rocks in this area, though the UI is not what I > would call endearing. Most of the "nice" package management frontends > come up short in this area for me. and apt4rpm does it just as well (if not better) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 15:07:08 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:19:11PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104150708.T13350@real-time.com> > I never use the config tools, I was referring to things like dselect, you have a point there with dselect; most people will admit it's pretty sucky. the great 'hidden knowlege' about debian, IMHO; is that you should only install a basic system with the media, then apt-get everything else. trying to choose the obvious path, and selecting packages from the installer, is a bit more painful and clumsy. of course, this is predicated on you knowing what the packages are called, and what they do; so it's not a newbie way to do it. :) still, if you've installed Linux at least once before; you should have some idea what you're looking for, at least enough to get a workable system. The premise of a lot of this discussion is "what should I migrate *to*, from RedHat?" IMHO, if you've used RH for a bit; you have enought knowlege to make a go of debian, without too much trouble. > the lack > of a basic XF86 configuration during install, hardware detection (ie, kudzu), > a few prompts for system configuration during install... It would solve 90% > of the install issues people have. A few other items include no skeleton > equivalent of rc.local, lack of useful sample configuration files (depends on > the package), poor documentation.. I think that's enough for now. I won't go over this point by point; but will say that I do not view all of these as problems. > Debian is built on the premise that you should have to do absolutely everything > the most difficult way possible, perhaps to scare off any lowly creature that > isn't worthy. no; I'll go so far as to say debian is 'by geeks, for geeks'. (almost) everything is in simple, logical places; so long as you don't expect your hand to be held. I won't say it's perfect; I rather prefer redhat's init scripts by a fair margin; but aside from that, the packages tend to put things in the right places, and give you helpful default configurations, and even help in configuration. cases in point: when you install a Mail Transport Agent in debian, whether it be sendmail, postfix, exim, or even nullmailer; debian gives you dialogs to help you get a basic (i.e. non-embarrassing) configuration. RedHat packages do not; and avowedly *won't* in the Fedora project. here at Real-Time; Nate & I regularly install a package on a debian box, to see how they made it work, because the RPM for that package is either shoddy, broken, or nonexistent. We put faith in debian to have a sane installer, put the files in sane places, and even apply some nifty patches to it to make it behave in a more sane fashion. (compare the debian nullmailer package, to the stock tarball.) we also trust debian to remove all the files and restore the system to a sane state, when we uninstall the package. something we historically haven't been able to even remotely count on from RedHat. > > probably. it's the simplest upgrade path, and hopefully the least painful... > > but I don't have full faith in the Fedora organization to *not* become > > another Debian, just with a different package format. (and a lot less > > maturity in their quality-control process, since they're newer). > > Simple? Please, it's like moving into a cardboard box from a townhouse. what, going from RedHat to Fedora? Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 4 14:52:36 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B301@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <3FA81194.7090906@structural-wood.com> Ryan Ware wrote: > > > File locations really should be standardized accross all distros. For a > group of people (Linux enthusiasts) that preach standards, it seems strange > to me that such a standard is not in place. Or if there is, seemingly it is > ignored. > There is a standards organization, and there is a reasonable amount of compliancy among distributions. http://www.linuxbase.org/ They have some sort of certification because I I saw it on a Xandros or other distro package recently. I'll be damned if I can remember where I saw it though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Tue Nov 4 15:03:52 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerald Skerbitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104193213.GF753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org> And the installer (RH in my case) DOES install grub, but when your installation doesn't come up the first time and needs some option on the kernel line (how do you _add_ vga=ask in grub and then boot?), the ability to do that should be either obvious when you're doing it, or documented otherwise. With grub (whose interface I now can manipulate -- albeit painfully) it's neither. Try this (pay attention to the space before hitting ): grub> root (hd0, Error 1: Filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist vs. grub> root (hd0, Possible partitions are: Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0xde Partition num: 1, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7 etc... grub> help boot boot: boot Boot the OS/chain-loader which has been loaded. grub> help load Let's see. The "setup" command actually does an install. The "kernel" command does a load. It's taken me a long time to find this out, and it's not nice. I don't say that you shouldn't use grub. I just say you should not recommend it to newbies. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:41:50PM -0600, Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > > I've heard the recommendation of grub many times on this list and it's > > inspired me several times to try to install it but I've been > > unsuccessful. > > This is exactly why your distributions installer should do it for you. > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 14:40:45 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104193902.GG753@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:39:02PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104130719.L13350@real-time.com> <20031104193902.GG753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104144045.S13350@real-time.com> > What's wrong with that? Some things depend on each other, and should be installed > at the same time, but shouldn't necessarily be the same package. Some people > have no concept of rpm -Uh yes, but I was using an apt-like tool (grab) which normally *would* deal with those dependencies; and even circular dependencies; but broke on those packages. dependency resolution is not an easy thing to get right; and RPM hasn't had a huge need for it until lately, so they didn't test the packages against automated-upgrade systems. I'm told that up2date used to have a good number of special-case hacks in it, to make things work properly with the packages which were available when it first came out; but that's just a 3rd-hand rumor. > You don't notice that debian does the same thing because you're using apt, > if you use apt under redhat it does the same deps resolution for you (as does > up2date, and the various other frontends to RPM) as I mentioned above; dependency resolution isn't trivial; it may be in the simple cases, but the corner cases will bite you, and those corner cases were usually the result of bad packaging. RPMs have definitely gotten better over the years. When there's a dependency issue in apt4rpm (usually just installing too many unnecessary dependencies), it's often a problem with a custom package built here at Real-Time; but not always. > > were there problems with the tool? yes. even so, this was very irritating, > > and poor form to change packages like that in a minor release, IMHO. > That's not an issue with a tool, it's user error =) no, this was a problem with the combination of 'grab', and packages that weren't properly tested with an auto-upgrade tool. the user (me) got around it by dealing with the packages directly, instead of with the auto-update/upgrade tool. (one of the nice things about grab, is that it'll let you force it to do something, even when it doesn't think it's a good idea. apt simply refuses to work in the face of broken dependencies; which may be good for most situations; but there are times that the administrator needs to override the tool and say 'I know what I'm doing, shoot me in the foot anyway'. Grab would work on systems with broken dependencies; which was a lot of them before apt4rpm came along.) > > at least we don't see packages from RH that need to be built as root. (one > > shouldn't be root when compiling an RPM; but I'm sure I saw one or two > > examples of that back in the RH6.2 days). > 6.2 is ancient =) yes, but the point I was making there, was that RPM quality-control used to suck; and now it sucks less. :) I'm not totally opposed to your viewpoint. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Tue Nov 4 15:19:35 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> References: <20031104115154.F64069-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <3FA817E7.1030109@druswanderings.net> Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > I find the interface to be a nightmare even if it is more powerful. I personally think the grub commands and configuration file make more sense than lilo. It's just different. It's akin to going from windows to linux and is only daunting until you know the commands to do what you need to. I would call your frustration with it a function of ignorance rather than poor design on the part of the software. > The fact that the 3rd question in the FAQ is incomprehensible to a > newbie is a clue that there's a steep learning curve to getting to the > point where you can use grub effectively. > 3. Can I put Stage2 into a partition which is over 1024 cylinders? That question really has nothing to do with grub. It is there because of a limitation of older builds of lilo which barfed when the kernel wasn't installed within the first 1024 cylinders of the drive. People wanted to know if grub had the same limitation. It was a question that came up frequently and so was included in the FAQs. > If my newbie admin is sitting at a boot prompt in lilo, I can tell them to > type linux init=/bin/sh Most people will not be faced with a "grub prompt" unless something is wrong. Using a config file, grub gives you a menu to choose from complete with extra info to help modify those commands if necessary. The docs have a sample menu.lst that is well commented and easily edited for your specific situation. > You can do SOMETHING. Grub? Help me out here.....where is that > information? In the documentation just like it is with lilo. > > The lilo mini-HOWTO has (in this order) 1. a quick introduction, > 2.background info and standard install, 2. 1 where should I install it? > 2.2 how should i configure my ide hard drive and ..... > > 2.3 How Can I Interact at Boot Time? > Hmmm, looks just like the first four nodes of 'info grub'. > If Lilo is not configured to be interactive, press > and hold the or key before the ``LILO'' message appears. > etc... > Those are things that I didn't know and I'm not a newbie either, I was just ignorant of that nifty little bit of info(filing away for later). With grub, I can hit 'c' to drop to a prompt (if there is a menu set up), hit 'TAB' to get a list of commands available to me if I can't remember the right one and also hit 'TAB' to autocomplete paths to help me figure out where my root directories and kernels are. > I say don't recommend grub to newbies. lilo is better understood and > better documented. Grub is for doing hard things. Installing it may be > easy but using it is not. They clearly make the hard possible and the > easy hard. Subjective opinion, born out of frustration, I'm sure. ;-) > if you find it confusing and hard, it might not be you -- it might be > grub. > I find (and always have found) lilo confusing and hard, however, to end this on a less contrarian note, if you really want to get it set up and find the docs confusing, just ask. I would be more than happy to help you out. If you want a quick and dirty min-HOWTO for installing grub, I suggest the bootloader part of the gentoo installation docs. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml#doc_chap23 -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Nov 4 15:31:36 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104150938.U13350@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > you're right; they should. Another nice thing about Debian is that they were > much closer to Linux Standard Base-compliancy, before most other distros. except that RPM and not DEB is the official LSB standard. > RedHat has done a lot to catch up lately tho. SuSE is still pretty wacky and > nonstandard in a lot of ways; but getting better. RH will probably get much closer now that fedora is in play. Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Tue Nov 4 14:20:45 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <003201c3a2e1$077734e0$0300000a@net.tsinks> References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <003201c3a2e1$077734e0$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:36:17AM -0600, Tim Sinks wrote: > everything. That makes it easy to sell with just 3 types, but Big Blue must > have swung thier weight around in this decision. The rumor a while back was > that Big Blue was going to absorb RH. That may have been the rumor, but there was little chance of it being true. The other "rumors" were that IBM was propping SuSE up so it wouldn't go bankrupt. I think the majority of big IBM wins were using SuSE and not Redhat. It gets more interesting now that Novell is in the process of buying SuSE. Novell still has a lot of money and it doesn't appear that they are bleeding cash. Will IBM continue paying for SuSE's development costs? Can Novell make SuSE profitable in their own right? Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Tue Nov 4 15:35:27 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104213527.GH24975@fandre.com> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I run it on multiple systems, it wasn't my choice. I get a headache every > time I have to touch them, and cringe in fear when I apt-get upgrade. Debian was even chosen as Distro of choice in the last LJs Reader's Choice Awards. http://pr.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=785 Aparently we are all doing things a little differently than you are. I think we all understand the you don't like Debian. You know what? That's fine. That's the great part of Linux. You have a choice. So go ahead using RedHat and let this thread die a peaceful death. But let the rest of us (who understand Debian) continue to use it without getting critisized. Pointing out some weaknesses in a disto is OK, but I think you took it a little too far. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 15:52:25 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org>; from gsker@tcfreenet.org on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 03:03:52PM -0600 References: <20031104193213.GF753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <20031104155225.W13350@real-time.com> On 11/04 03:03 , Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > And the installer (RH in my case) DOES install grub, but when your > installation doesn't come up the first time and needs some option on the > kernel line (how do you _add_ vga=ask in grub and then boot?), the ability > to do that should be either obvious when you're doing it, or documented > otherwise. > With grub (whose interface I now can manipulate -- albeit painfully) it's > neither. > > Try this (pay attention to the space before hitting ): > grub> root (hd0, didn't grub come up with the menu that lets you select different kernels? at that menu, it should say something like 'e to edit the commands before booting' among other text in a paragraph at the bottom; which a little experimentation should show, gives you access to the kernel's boot command line; along with some more suggested commands (b to boot, e to edit the selected line, etc). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 15:44:21 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104205926.GK753@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:59:26PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> <3FA807DC.4070503@argle.org> <20031104205926.GK753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104154421.V13350@real-time.com> On 11/04 02:59 , Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > If foo needs bar, it needs it. Case closed. I see no reason why .deb > should be better than .rpm at saying 'i need BAR' you're right. I don't think there's an insuperable difference between rpm & deb, when it comes to inherent ability to state what their dependencies are. The point of most of my arguments, has simply been that in the past, rpms have not been constructed as carefully as debs. For this reason, apt on debian has been superior to apt4rpm. this is not an inherent condition; and it may very well change. I don't have a great deal of faith in the Fedora people to do it quickly; but it probably won't be in an insufferable state. Carl. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Nov 4 15:57:55 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Miguel on Linux and ISV's Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B307@ipserver2.interplastic.com> http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/texts/linux-developers.html Interesting article. I think there is a lot of truth here. It reminds me of the Apache 2.0 release with a lot of the modules that people depended on not being ready. I think open source needs to coordinate a little better sometimes. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Nov 4 15:52:58 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) Message-ID: Got this today from Novell: Novell Announces Agreement to Acquire Leading Enterprise Linux Technology Company SUSE LINUX Novell today announced it has entered into an agreement to acquire SUSE LINUX, one of the world's leading enterprise Linux companies, expanding Novell's ability to provide enterprise-class services and support on the Linux platform. With the open source expertise of SUSE LINUX and Novell's world-class networking and identity solutions and support, training and consulting services, Novell will be able to deliver Linux and all its components -- from the server to the desktop -- and give organizations a secure, reliable and mature Linux foundation. Novell will pay $210 million in cash to complete the acquisition. The transaction is subject to regulatory approval and the winding up of shareholder agreements. Novell expects the transaction to close by the end of its first fiscal quarter (January 2004). This latest move follows Novell's August purchase of Ximian, a leader in Linux server and desktop solutions, and further demonstrates Novell's ongoing commitment to provide customers a full range of Linux solutions. Both the Ximian and SUSE LINUX acquisitions affirm Novell's commitment to promoting the open source model and developer community. Novell today also announced that IBM intends to make a $50 million investment in Novell convertible preferred stock. In addition, Novell and IBM are negotiating extensions to the current commercial agreements between IBM and SUSE LINUX for the continued support of SUSE LINUX on IBM's eServer products and middleware products, and to provide for product and marketing support arrangements related to SUSE LINUX. Both of these agreements will be effective when the acquisition of SUSE LINUX by Novell is completed. =================================== LINKS =================================== For more information - Press Release: http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2003/11/pr03069.html?sourceid=suse_nui_press Press Conference Invitation Novell and SUSE LINUX will hold a press conference at 11 a.m. EST (5 p.m. CET) to discuss the transaction in greater detail. The press conference can be heard live at http://www.novell.com/webcast talk back What do you think about all of this? Fill out this survey and you could win a prize. http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?G26XK7H2H21LNLQ3G9BVQ3MT ===================================== Copyright 2003 Novell, NetWare and Ximian are registered trademarks; eDirectory, exteNd, Nsure and Nterprise are trademarks; and Ngage is a service mark of Novell, Inc. in the United States and other countries. SUSE is a registered trademark of SUSE LINUX. *All third-party trademarks are the property of their respective owners. www.novell.com --- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Tue Nov 4 15:52:16 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org> References: <20031104193213.GF753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <20031104215216.GD11559@itlabs.umn.edu> Really, I think a good tutorial is all that's really needed. If you look at Gentoo's install walkthrough, you can build your complete system from scratch without knowing much of anything. Granted, to someone who's never used a prompt without C: at the start will have trouble conceptually (at least I did...) with the root filesystem. The only trouble a newb would have with Gentoo is configuring the kernel, I think. But the steps to set up grub are straightforward, and they even show you how to add a vga=... (or other) switch to options in your menu. On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 03:03:52PM -0600, Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > And the installer (RH in my case) DOES install grub, but when your > installation doesn't come up the first time and needs some option on the > kernel line (how do you _add_ vga=ask in grub and then boot?), the ability > to do that should be either obvious when you're doing it, or documented > otherwise. > With grub (whose interface I now can manipulate -- albeit painfully) it's > neither. > > Try this (pay attention to the space before hitting ): > grub> root (hd0, > Error 1: Filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist > > vs. > grub> root (hd0, > Possible partitions are: > Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0xde > Partition num: 1, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7 > etc... > > grub> help boot > boot: boot > Boot the OS/chain-loader which has been loaded. > > grub> help load > > Let's see. The "setup" command actually does an install. The "kernel" > command does a load. > > It's taken me a long time to find this out, and it's not nice. > > I don't say that you shouldn't use grub. I just say you should not > recommend it to newbies. > > > -- > Gerry Skerbitz > gsker@tcfreenet.org > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:41:50PM -0600, Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > > > I've heard the recommendation of grub many times on this list and it's > > > inspired me several times to try to install it but I've been > > > unsuccessful. > > > > This is exactly why your distributions installer should do it for you. > > -- > > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- ______________________________________________________________ |o John Hoffoss Page 1/1 o| |o [personal] hoff0438@umn.edu [mobile] 612.867.1432 o| |o [personal] john@hoffoss.com [home] 651.646.0987 o| |o [work] hoffossj@facm.umn.edu [work] 612.626.7628 o| |o [other] john@minn.tc o| |o [GnuPG] BBAA 0FBA 94B6 A7D9 6C44 0C6E 6D81 F3C2 B254 20F4 o| |o _ _ _ _o| |o _ _ _ _ _ _ / `-' `-' `-' `. |o _ _ _ _ _ / `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 16:23:12 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Some New Debian Questions In-Reply-To: <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org> References: <20031104193213.GF753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104143244.O68756-100000@tcfreenet.org> Message-ID: <20031104222312.GL753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 03:03:52PM -0600, Gerald Skerbitz wrote: > And the installer (RH in my case) DOES install grub, but when your > installation doesn't come up the first time and needs some option on the > kernel line (how do you _add_ vga=ask in grub and then boot?), the ability > to do that should be either obvious when you're doing it, or documented > otherwise. > With grub (whose interface I now can manipulate -- albeit painfully) it's > neither. Read the screen, press 'e', select the line to edit (the first one usually) type 'vga=ask', press enter, press 'b' to boot. [snip] As opposed to LI 010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101 ... Yes, grub can be finicky about syntax in the installer. Luckily the most I ever have to do is grub-install /dev/XXX Once you get past the hardest part (the install, which should be done by your OS/distribution installer) it's a pleasure to deal with. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Tue Nov 4 16:34:22 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FA8296E.5000705@argle.org> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Pine/pico, the latest hissy fit on the debian lists about mplayer, etc. > Have you _read_ the license for Pine? Debian doesn't distribute it in a binary package because even the slight modifications to the source tree to package it could violate the license UWash distributes it under. I don't know if RH negotiated an exception or worked around it some other way, but binary distribution of pine is problematic, and Debian is fanatical about sticking to the license that software is distributed under. If you can't burn the binaries onto a CD and sell the CD legally it can't go in main. apt-get build-deps pine apt-get source -b pine Then install the .deb's with dpkg, but _do_not_ redistribute them. > >>>Debian isn't meant for the desktop of your (now)typical linux user, >>>and it probably won't ever be. >> >>And again. Is it just me here? I guess I'm not the brightest bulb on >>the tree, but... > > > My mother can, and has installed Red Hat. She uses it without any problems. > > So does my girlfriend, and so do my little sisters (10, 13) > > I'm talking about _users_, not geeks. > I've seen "users" choke on RH, but be able to use Debian quite effectively, and vice versa. I've seen hardware that would only take particular distributions. There is no one right answer. I've even heard rumors that there are end users using FreeBSD happily, the horror! > >>>Use `dselect' for user-friendly package management. >> >>Oh, nevermind. You got me. > > > Calling dselect user friendly is a good measure of the 'user friendliness' of debian. > > Much like calling rat poison 'rat friendly' > > >>Why does that make you sick? Has Debian done something against you >>personally? > > > I equate them with spam, telemarketers, and jehovahs witness. People > attempting to force something upon you. > If you don't like it don't use it. Nobody is trying to _force_ Debian on you (unlike the MS zombies who seem baffled at the thought that anyone would _want_ to use anything else). We couldn't even do it if we wanted to. > >>But with >>so many Debian users oh so happy, it they must be doing something >>right. > > > There are so many happy MS/RedHat/*BSD/AIX/MacOS users, they must be doing > something right. > They are. MS does channel leverage right. RedHat does support right. Apple does Image and GUI right. Do people still use BSD or AIX? ;) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 16:39:28 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I never use the config tools, I was referring to things like dselect, dselect is.. annoying at best. personally, i just install a base system, and use apt-get to install everything else i want. exact same way i install a redhat box. > the lack of a basic XF86 configuration during install personally, i prefer that. just me, though. > hardware detection (ie, kudzu) want kudzu? apt-get install kudzu. that's one of my favorite things about debian, that it doesn't include the hardware detection crap by default - lets me configure it *properly* on my own, without mucking around. then again, i may be "old school" - newbies probably don't want to do that. (but nobody ever said debian was a distro for newbies.. well, at least i certainly didn't.) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Tue Nov 4 16:43:46 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104205926.GK753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D78E.1060109@argle.org> <20031104181909.GE753@techmonkeys.org> <3FA807DC.4070503@argle.org> <20031104205926.GK753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FA82BA2.2010001@argle.org> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 02:11:08PM -0600, Daniel Taylor wrote: > >>The way the software packages are put together. Not as in plastic and >>cardboard, but the .deb or .rpm files themselves. > > > Sorry, you missed the sarcasm, please give an example of what is superior > about the debian package management system as compared to RPM. > By spec, nothing. Debian had better package managers sooner, and there seems to be better discipline in dependency recording among the packagers. > >>>*Please* will someone explain this dependencies issue? People like to >>>spout 'dependancy hell', 'dependency consistency' etc. without ever >>>providing any meat. It's like a marketing buzzword. >>> > > >>I forget that there are relative newbies present, sorry. > > > Ouch, was that an insult? > No. Just missed the sarcasm and took you seriously. > >>Get something in the wrong order and your >>whole installation can end up horked while you have to sort things out >>by hand. > > > rpm doesn't allow you to do this, you would have to use --force and/or > --nodeps. At this point you're on your own, and have no right to complain. > Neither does .deb. It happens anyway if a package you need fails to install correctly because of a missed/mangled dependency. I've had it happen on rpm and .deb based systems so don't assume superiority for either one there. > >>There are two parts to dependency management: >>1. How good packages are about listing their key dependencies. In my >> experience .deb packages are better in this. I don't know why, as >> there is no technical reason why they should be. > > > If foo needs bar, it needs it. Case closed. I see no reason why .deb > should be better than .rpm at saying 'i need BAR' > It isn't. But the Debian packagers seem more consistent about getting _all_ their dependencies noted in the package. > >>2. How good the package manager is about handling packages in dependency >> order. dselect+apt rocks in this area, though the UI is not what I >> would call endearing. Most of the "nice" package management frontends >> come up short in this area for me. > > > and apt4rpm does it just as well (if not better) > I haven't used an rpm based system with apt4rpm yet. I'm sure I'll need it eventually though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Tue Nov 4 16:47:23 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com><003201c3a2e1$077734e0$0300000a@net.tsinks> <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> Message-ID: <013c01c3a325$a035be60$0300000a@net.tsinks> Well, they're not fully out of the picture with RH. http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/comparison/ Look at the machines that the main Enterprise AS is set up for - Supports IBM z, i, p and S/390 series systems Yes No No - the last 2 no's are for the Enterprise ES and the WS (WorkStation) versions. They do mention HP and others for compatibility, but... Maybe they won't buy based on Blue's going to mainly support, but as they say, "when the elephant turns..." I've been using RH since 5.0 in '97 and I like it sometimes. As a unix SA since 93 with HPUX, AIX, Xenix, and Sun, I found it a good practice area for certain things. I've only used Linux in the WS or home/desktop/laptop environs. I don't really need server type accouterments so it becomes as expensive as the M$. I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to as Linux grows and takes on big time trappings. _________________________________ >From RedHat web site -- on support -- Key certification platform Red Hat actively works to certify leading industry ISVs and OEMs for comprehensive application and hardware support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux products. Here are just some of the vendors supporting Red Hat Enterprise Linux: Alias | Wavefront BEA BMC Software Borland Checkpoint Computer Associates Dell HP IBM: Tivoli, Lotus, DB2, Websphere Legato Novell Oracle Rogue Wave Software SAP Softimage Sun Synopsys Tibco VERITAS _________________________________ Keep looking up, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:36:17AM -0600, Tim Sinks wrote: > > everything. That makes it easy to sell with just 3 types, but Big Blue must > > have swung thier weight around in this decision. The rumor a while back was > > that Big Blue was going to absorb RH. > > That may have been the rumor, but there was little chance of it being > true. The other "rumors" were that IBM was propping SuSE up so it > wouldn't go bankrupt. I think the majority of big IBM wins were using > SuSE and not Redhat. > > It gets more interesting now that Novell is in the process of buying > SuSE. Novell still has a lot of money and it doesn't appear that they > are bleeding cash. Will IBM continue paying for SuSE's development > costs? Can Novell make SuSE profitable in their own right? > > Nate > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 16:54:48 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031104225448.GN753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 04:39:28PM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote: > lets me configure it *properly* on my own, without mucking around. then > again, i may be "old school" - newbies probably don't want to do that. > (but nobody ever said debian was a distro for newbies.. well, at least i > certainly didn't.) I'm entirely too busy/lazy to bother. If I drop some random network card into a system I'd be much happier to let kudzu (or a similar tool) check the PCI ID and at least tell me the appropriate driver, rather than digging around google searching for pci id's, random chip numbers, or whatever the company rebadged it as. This is what I meant by being macho, let the system do some of the work =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 4 16:59:18 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA8296E.5000705@argle.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> <3FA8296E.5000705@argle.org> Message-ID: <20031104225918.GO753@techmonkeys.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 04:34:22PM -0600, Daniel Taylor wrote: > Have you _read_ the license for Pine? I have. I think the author of nano explains it well: http://www.asty.org/articles/20010702pine.html > Debian doesn't distribute it in a binary package because > even the slight modifications to the source tree to package > it could violate the license UWash distributes it under. That's fine, I don't want anyone modifying pico/pine =) > under. If you can't burn the binaries onto a CD and sell the CD legally > it can't go in main. Redistribution of this release is permitted as follows, or by mutual agreement: (a) In free-of-charge or at-cost distributions by non-profit concerns; (b) In free-of-charge distributions by for-profit concerns; (c) Inclusion in a CD-ROM collection of free-of-charge, shareware, or non-proprietary software for which a fee may be charged for the packaged distribution. ^--- -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 17:20:31 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104225448.GN753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> <20031104201911.GH753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104225448.GN753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > I'm entirely too busy/lazy to bother. If I drop some random network card > into a system I'd be much happier to let kudzu (or a similar tool) check > the PCI ID and at least tell me the appropriate driver, rather than > digging around google searching for pci id's, random chip numbers, or > whatever the company rebadged it as. > > This is what I meant by being macho, let the system do some of the work > =) Guess I've been burned by Kudzu too many times.. 'course, I haven't actually used it in the last couple years, because it kept trying to load the wrong drivers on me. 'course, I also generally purchase cards that I know the driver for (d-link cards with tulip chipsets, e100/1000's, and 3c59x's), so it's not a problem to know which driver to use. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Nov 4 17:51:26 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <013c01c3a325$a035be60$0300000a@net.tsinks> References: <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> <013c01c3a325$a035be60$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <20031104235126.GA3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dsherman at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 19:43:48 2003 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <20031104235126.GA3114@iucha.net> References: <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> <013c01c3a325$a035be60$0300000a@net.tsinks> <20031104235126.GA3114@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3FA855D4.7090401@real-time.com> Florin Iucha wrote: > AFAIK: > IBM i series is Intel XEON based systems > IBM z and p are Power+ based systems, formerly known as AS/400 and S/390 Minor correction: z-Series are the next-gen S/390. p-Series are the next-gen RS/6000 (RISC/Power-4). i-Series are the next-gen AS/400 (RISC/Power-4). x-Series are the next-gen NetFinity servers (Intel). -- Dave Sherman - MCSE, MCSA, CCNA, and former IBM business partner Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 22:16:10 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <004c01c3a2e5$4d07e780$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20031104221610.43adedee.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:10:18 -0600 "David Phillips" wrote: > Debian is not about apt-get. Debian was around for years before > apt-get existed. Debian is about free software, distributed as high > quality packages that meet strict guidelines. Having an easy way to > automatically install software is merely a feature that the packaging > system allows. > Personally, I will say that Slackware also fills these things quite well. It doesn't have as sharp of an "initial learning curve," meaning install nightmares of how to install it. Plain, simple, highly configurable. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 22:22:34 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104133019.N13350@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:19 -0600 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Does this conflict with the way some people think the world should > work? yes. However, the beauty of Free software is that you can choose > to go your own way. :) > Unfortunately, this will be kind of the undoing of Linux. With all the varous distros out there, it's going to be difficult to get a "standardization" of Linux. Plain and simple. The big UNIX's have their differences as well, but are far more standardized on things than Linux will be for a long time. Personal opinions, based upon my experiences of course.... -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 22:32:49 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell to purchase Suse, where does that leave KDE? In-Reply-To: <200311040901.13067@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311040901.13067@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031104223249.2419935d.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:01:12 -0600 Bob Tanner wrote: > If I remember right, many of the core KDE developers are Suse > employees. Right? > > Now Novell is purchasing Suse, and they already bought Ximian, where > does that leave kde? > Interesting point Bob. Personally, I'm not a KDE user (use fvwm2), but it's a valid concern. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Tue Nov 4 22:26:52 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:35:11PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031104222652.D15094@joelschneider.net> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:35:11PM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > I have been running unstable on my desktops, testing on > my internal servers, and stable on my external servers for years > without any major problems. Interesting to read that "stable" may be useful for something. My impression was that most debian-philes were using either "unstable" or "testing". In case anyone's interested or curious, here's a short summary of a recent bitter experience I had with debian. Being cautious and/or ignorant, I installed "stable" (woody). Later I decided Mozilla 1.0 was really lame and did "apt-get -t unstable install mozilla" to get Mozilla 1.4. Apt proceeded to de-install KDE and then horked in the middle of the install (don't recall exactly why), leaving me with no KDE and no Mozilla. This experience left me unimpressed, so my next system will most likely not run Debian GNU/Apache/Perl/MySQL/OpenSSH/Linux. OpenBSD is starting to look good ... -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Nov 4 23:04:22 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104181228.GD753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <3FA7D7E1.2010902@structural-wood.com> <20031104174303.GF27098@slushpupie.com> <20031104181228.GD753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <16296.34006.707704.516656@workstation.mn.mtu.net> >>>>> "MSH" == Matthew S Hallacy writes: MSH> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 11:43:03AM -0600, Jay Kline wrote: >> This is not entirely true. Redhat very frequently packages software the >> is not ready to go out, and they send it to production systems (I think >> many people will remember the whole gcc thing a while back). The MSH> Please give precise examples, I've never had a problem like this, and I MSH> never had a problem with the "broken gcc". I don't remember exactly which version of RedHat (either 6.0 or 7.0) where RedHat decided to take a snapshot of the 3.0 development tree of gcc and use that as their gcc compiler. This caused all kinds of grief for developers because the compiler wasn't fully tested and had new features that broke some old things. Most notably the kernel. So if you wanted to compile a kernel you needed to install another package called kcc, which was actually a stable version of gcc (which should've been used in the first place), and then modify the Makefile to use kcc as the compiler instead of gcc. About this point in time I decided I wasn't going back to RedHat for my personal machines. Work machines are still another story, although I'm going to have to come up with a solution soon now. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Nov 4 23:08:11 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104222652.D15094@joelschneider.net>; from joel@joelschneider.net on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 10:26:52PM -0600 References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> <20031104222652.D15094@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20031104230811.C16932@real-time.com> On 11/04 10:26 , Joel Schneider wrote: > OpenBSD is starting to look good ... be warned, updating packages on OBSD is a rather painful process at times. If you think dependency hell was bad in the 'bad old days' of RedHat (before apt and other dependency-managers); OpenBSD is worse. On OBSD, you (at least used to) have to *uninstall* dependent packages, before you could upgrade the package that they depended on. so for instance, if you wanted to upgrade Mozilla, you would have to uninstall the Galeon package first, then upgrade Mozilla, then recompile Galeon, then install that. as opposed to 'apt-get install galeon'. FreeBSD's ports system is somewhat better, but I have little experience with it. Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Tue Nov 4 23:21:33 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104222652.D15094@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joel Schneider wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:35:11PM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote: > > I have been running unstable on my desktops, testing on > > my internal servers, and stable on my external servers for years > > without any major problems. > > Interesting to read that "stable" may be useful for something. My > impression was that most debian-philes were using either "unstable" or > "testing". > > In case anyone's interested or curious, here's a short summary of a > recent bitter experience I had with debian. Being cautious and/or > ignorant, I installed "stable" (woody). Later I decided Mozilla 1.0 > was really lame and did "apt-get -t unstable install mozilla" to get > Mozilla 1.4. Apt proceeded to de-install KDE and then horked in the > middle of the install (don't recall exactly why), leaving me with no KDE > and no Mozilla. This experience left me unimpressed, so my next system > will most likely not run Debian GNU/Apache/Perl/MySQL/OpenSSH/Linux. > OpenBSD is starting to look good ... > > Dependencies. Trust me, you _don't_ want to mix stable and unstable packages. It is like trying to install a RH9 package on RH7, or worse. -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Tue Nov 4 23:19:39 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shawn wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:19 -0600 > Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > Does this conflict with the way some people think the world should > > work? yes. However, the beauty of Free software is that you can choose > > to go your own way. :) > > > > Unfortunately, this will be kind of the undoing of Linux. With all the varous distros out there, it's going to be difficult to get a "standardization" of Linux. Plain and simple. > > The big UNIX's have their differences as well, but are far more standardized on things than Linux will be for a long time. > Uh, have you used more than one "Big Unix"? They are more different than Linux is from BSD. Linux is Linux is Linux. The differences between distros are more a matter of what packages they choose to install by default than anything else. > Personal opinions, based upon my experiences of course.... > > > -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Nov 4 23:09:54 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: The FREE, 0% APR, Better Sex, No Effort Diet Message-ID: <3FA88622.8050208@comcast.net> Dear Howard Strauss, I read your article on-line in the Syllabus....interesting reading. http://www.syllabus.com/article.asp?id=8460 I'm still trying to decide if you were being sarcastic, or if you really view Linux and Open Source as a toy/tool for "teenagers too young to work at Redmond, hackers, virus creators, and a menagerie of others"? If you were writing the article with "tongue in cheek", then kudos, you managed to stir up some serious discussion about Linux. If you were serious when you wrote the article, then I have to wonder if Microsoft paid you to write the article as yet another piece of FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about Linux. The end of the article has a line that your are "the manager of technology strategy and outreach at Princeton University." My experience with some managers is that they only know what their employees tell them when it comes to technical matters, especially so in the IT world. So my question to you is, do you know a server from a desktop? Do you know what the Linux operating system is? Do you know what Open Source software is? Did you know that Apache web server, an Open Source application, currently runs on almost 66% of the web servers on the Internet? Don't believe me, check out www.netcraft.com. As of 03Nov2003, Apache accounts for 67.41% of the web servers on the Internet. If Linux and Open Source are indeed a toy/tool for "teenagers too young to work at Redmond, hackers, virus creators, and a menagerie of others", then why, pray tell, are major manufacturers supporting and utilizing Linux in their production environments? Why does IBM, a major player in the IT world, support Linux on their products, including mainframes? Why has Novell bought Ximian and is now looking to buy SuSE, both of which are Open Source, one an application, the other a distribution of Linux? If Linux is the root of such evil, why then has a Linux firewall been protecting my home network FROM intruders for over 2 years with a 100% success rate of keeping out intruders and worms? Why then is an embedded Linux device serving as a dial-up modem and firewall combination for my retired father and his WindowsXP computer? If you are really so deluded that you believe Linux to be the root of such evil, then I neither hate nor despise you, I pity you. Please feel free to keep you head buried so far in the sand that you can't see the world changing around you. Linux and Open Source are here to stay, and will only continue to gain market share, both in the private sector and in the business sector. Linux gives companies and private individuals the opportunity to get off the hardware upgrade merry-go-round that Microsoft would have everyone believe is the norm. Microsoft's operating systems keep getting larger and larger each year. Meanwhile, my Linux based firewall is running on a Pentium1 computer with only 128Megs of RAM and a simple 1.5 gigabyte hard drive. I would love to see Microsoft beat that. I welcome your comments/rebuttal. Sincerely, Todd Young _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Tue Nov 4 23:35:19 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What goes around, comes around Message-ID: <200311042335.19589.jack@jacku.com> As a "loyal" SuSE customer I find it interesting that Novell has bought them. Some of the developers might in fact have been Novell employees at an earlier point in time. Caldera (save the boos, this is the original Caldera we are talking about) was created by expatriate Novellers, if memory serves me. Some of the Linux team was "passed off" to SuSE during the United Linux setup. So anyone who'd been around long enough might have already been a Novell employee. Anyway I see this as a good thing as long as they maintain the "Home User" box sets. These are the ones available at Best Buy, etc. If these products get scrapped that would be a bad thing. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Tue Nov 4 23:54:26 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell to purchase Suse, where does that leave KDE? In-Reply-To: <200311040901.13067@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311040901.13067@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <200311042354.26761.jack@jacku.com> On Tuesday 04 November 2003 09:01 am, Bob Tanner wrote: > If I remember right, many of the core KDE developers are Suse employees. > Right? > > Now Novell is purchasing Suse, and they already bought Ximian, where does > that leave kde? I wasn't sure what to think about this. I couldn't in the short term at least see SuSE going over to Ximian/GNOME as it desktop. While you can run GNOME on SuSE, KDE is better integrated. Then I read some of the commentary on NewsForge. Along the lines of "Novell's main interest in Ximian is Mono and its ability to provide .net services." and "SuSE will help Mono reach into the enterprise." Maybe the question is where does it leave Gnome? IBM bought Lotus for Notes. It kept SmartSuite around for a while but eventually gave it up. So Lotus is now Notes/Domino and not much else. Hmm... That said, both are open source projects and both will survive any change in corporate allegiances. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Nov 5 06:08:23 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: References: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031105060823.56c44077.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:19:39 -0600 (CST) Daniel Taylor wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shawn wrote: > > > Unfortunately, this will be kind of the undoing of Linux. With all > > the varous distros out there, it's going to be difficult to get a > > "standardization" of Linux. Plain and simple. > > > > The big UNIX's have their differences as well, but are far more > > standardized on things than Linux will be for a long time. > > > Uh, have you used more than one "Big Unix"? > They are more different than Linux is from BSD. > > Linux is Linux is Linux. The differences between distros are more a > matter of what packages they choose to install by default than > anything else. > Uh, yeah. Take your pick: HP-UX (10.0x to 11.23), Solaris (2.5 to 9), AIX (4.3.2 to 5.x), Tru64 (4.0x to 5.1B). Reread what I wrote.... They (the big UNIX) are far more alike than Linux is IMO. Well, with the exception of AIX, which is a beast of it's own. But, the other three are very similar. The big problem I see with Linux is that each distro does it's own things differently. The only real underlying consistency of Linux is the kernel, and some of the base packages. Otherwise, things are different. In reality, we're entering the "big shake down" of Linux (IMO). Look at UNIX years ago, there were companies sprouting up all over the place. Now, there's only a handful of them. Linux is going thru the same thing, and we'll see some disappear and other come in. But, I think overall the total number of distros will drop to a handful. Linux is the kernel. That is all what Linux is. A distro is far more than just packages on it's base install. It's where they place things, tools they use for administration, etc. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 5 07:45:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell to purchase Suse, where does that leave KDE? In-Reply-To: <200311042354.26761.jack@jacku.com> References: <200311040901.13067@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <200311042354.26761.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <3FA8FF0C.6060200@visi.com> That said, both are open source projects and both will survive any change in corporate allegiances. *** Unless one gets put on the shelf by Novel. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 5 08:00:29 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell to purchase Suse, where does that leave KDE? Message-ID: I think he is saying they will survive even if Novell isn't interested in them. I think that is correct. They'll probably give a 'Bluecurve' type project a try though, maybe giving preference to the KDE-way this time. That would be interesting... >>> smac@visi.com 11/05/03 07:45AM >>> That said, both are open source projects and both will survive any change in corporate allegiances. *** Unless one gets put on the shelf by Novel. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Wed Nov 5 08:35:14 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam-Assassin and Bayes Learning Message-ID: <008901c3a3aa$07021290$d037630a@nic.target.com> Lately, I have been using bogofilter to scan my email and detect spam. However, it is a rather clunky solution to kick off an executable behemoth for each mail. I like the daemonized service that SpamAssassin offers. So, I have discovered Bayes learning in Spam Assassin. Autolearning was always on, but I am not trying to train it when it makes a mistake, using sa-learn. My question to the list if I scan an email that was marked as spam by Spam Assassin, what is the best way to fix it. Currently, I think the best way is likely to be: cat emailfile | sa-learn --forget cat emailfile | sa-learn --spam However, what happens if the original email was munged by SpamAssassin already (rewrite subject, and envelope the original spam)? Is sa-learn smart enough to ignore its own handy work, or do I have to pass it the enveloped version? Thanks in advance, Tom Veldhouse _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 5 08:44:02 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> A General Pot Stir. Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit about SuSe, could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO has a case against IBM/RedHat? Why does the Linux community only bash MS? Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the same bashing? Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? Who owned PowerPoint before MS? Who owned Excel before MS? I find it interesting the amount of support being displayed for SuSe being gobbled up by Novel, at the command of IBM. I don't see why it's good for IBM to put $50m in to Novel and for Novel to buy SuSe, other then to eliminate the competition. In 10 years SuSe will not exist, everyone will be saying "Do you remember that cool IBM Linux distribution before IBM owned it. What was the name of it, "Sugi?", it was great. What was the window thingy called, "KBE?", was that it? These big companies spend money like it's water. They don't want to pay people in this country a fair wage so they send the jobs to other countries. But it's just fine for them to spend $50m on a company to get control of it. Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Nov 5 08:51:01 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B30F@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:44 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > > > A General Pot Stir. > > Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit > about SuSe, > could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO > has a case > against IBM/RedHat? > > Why does the Linux community only bash MS? > Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the > same bashing? > Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? > Who owned PowerPoint before MS? > Who owned Excel before MS? I'd add one more. If, as is the prevailing thought in the Linux community, that SCO's suit is unfounded and just waiting to be thrown out, WHY doesn't IBM step up to the plate and do the same thing MS did recently and say it will hold harmless any customers from patent issues? The longer this drags out the more it hurts Linux in the enterprise. Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Wed Nov 5 08:55:19 2003 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam-Assassin and Bayes Learning In-Reply-To: <008901c3a3aa$07021290$d037630a@nic.target.com> Message-ID: Tom Veldhouse asked; > > However, what happens if the original email was munged by SpamAssassin > already (rewrite subject, and envelope the original spam)? Is sa-learn > smart enough to ignore its own handy work, or do I have to pass it the > enveloped version? > According to the docs on the website, "If the messages you are learning from have already been filtered through SpamAssassin, the learner will compensate for this. In effect, it learns what each message would look like if you had run spamassassin -d over it in advance." I can't attribute the following example correctly, (may have been on slashdot), but it has worked great for me.. "One important note- when you get a falsely classified message, it's REALLY important to tell Spamassasin's bayesnian filter about it. It's as easy as cut+paste if you do: sa-learn --spam/--ham --single, hit enter, paste the message, hit control D. Done!" Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Nov 5 10:03:20 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031105060823.56c44077.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031105060823.56c44077.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FA91F48.9040008@argle.org> Shawn wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:19:39 -0600 (CST) > Daniel Taylor wrote: > > >>On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shawn wrote: >> >> >>>Unfortunately, this will be kind of the undoing of Linux. With all >>>the varous distros out there, it's going to be difficult to get a >>>"standardization" of Linux. Plain and simple. >>> >>>The big UNIX's have their differences as well, but are far more >>>standardized on things than Linux will be for a long time. >>> >> >>Uh, have you used more than one "Big Unix"? >>They are more different than Linux is from BSD. >> >>Linux is Linux is Linux. The differences between distros are more a >>matter of what packages they choose to install by default than >>anything else. >> > > > Uh, yeah. Take your pick: HP-UX (10.0x to 11.23), Solaris (2.5 to 9), AIX (4.3.2 to 5.x), Tru64 (4.0x to 5.1B). Reread what I wrote.... > I thought I had read it. I've used most of those as well as some others. Simple things like code portablility. How many "special" options you need to even compile packages with GCC on each platform. Varied libraries, wierd options to common utilities like 'ps' it's a real mixed bag when you deal with commercial Unix. At least with Linux you know you don't have half of your admin executables in /etc, some in /bin, some in /usr/ucb/bin, some stuff off in /opt/*/bin/, and who knows where else stuff got installed. Yeah, you have different package managers, but they are of a kind. There isn't a general admin interface as good as smit yet, but a couple are making progress in that direction. KDE and Gnome are starting to narrow in on a decent UI, though I wish both of them would cut down the memory intensive eyecandy on the default installs. If you are "old school" you go with fvwm or something else lean and familiar, and it is there. All the core command line utils are available for every distro, and THE LIBRARIES ARE ALWAYS THE SAME! YAY! > They (the big UNIX) are far more alike than Linux is IMO. Well, with the exception of AIX, which is a beast of it's own. But, the other three are very similar. > AIX has smit, smit is awesome. All else is forgiven. > The big problem I see with Linux is that each distro does it's own things differently. The only real underlying consistency of Linux is the kernel, and some of the base packages. Otherwise, things are different. > "Some of the base packages" Like pretty much every useful command-line utility, _all_ the core libraries, X11 and the classic window managers, ghostview, an available selection of daemons (with different default selections), samba, and the kernel providing common nfs and firewalling service. Show me two commercial Unixes that have as much in common and I'll shut my mouth about it. The major distros have even settled pretty nicely on the structure of /etc, though there are still SysV vs BSD camps on init. Differences: KDE vs Gnome defaults, default daemon selection (especially lp and smtp), and auto-device-detection and management, rc.d. > In reality, we're entering the "big shake down" of Linux (IMO). Look at UNIX years ago, there were companies sprouting up all over the place. Now, there's only a handful of them. Linux is going thru the same thing, and we'll see some disappear and other come in. But, I think overall the total number of distros will drop to a handful. > Because Linux isn't encumbered with the BSD license, I think this is _one_ shakedown of Linux companies. I think that it will continue to cycle with new companies coming in to the fray as old ones mature, die, or get acquired. RedHat is pretty mature, and they have found their niche. > Linux is the kernel. That is all what Linux is. A distro is far more than just packages on it's base install. It's where they place things, tools they use for administration, etc. > The core admin tools are the same. I expect that as new generations of admin tools come out they will mature and become standard. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Nov 5 10:18:40 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031104225918.GO753@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FA7C8C0.4050601@structural-wood.com> <001201c3a2ee$23e59330$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104180609.GC753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104193511.GB24975@fandre.com> <20031104204737.GI753@techmonkeys.org> <3FA8296E.5000705@argle.org> <20031104225918.GO753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FA922E0.7050207@argle.org> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 04:34:22PM -0600, Daniel Taylor wrote: > >>Have you _read_ the license for Pine? > > > I have. I think the author of nano explains it well: > > http://www.asty.org/articles/20010702pine.html > > > > >>Debian doesn't distribute it in a binary package because >>even the slight modifications to the source tree to package >>it could violate the license UWash distributes it under. > > > That's fine, I don't want anyone modifying pico/pine =) > > >>under. If you can't burn the binaries onto a CD and sell the CD legally >>it can't go in main. > > > Redistribution of this release is permitted as follows, or by mutual agreement: > (a) In free-of-charge or at-cost distributions by non-profit concerns; > (b) In free-of-charge distributions by for-profit concerns; > (c) Inclusion in a CD-ROM collection of free-of-charge, shareware, or > non-proprietary software for which a fee may be charged for the packaged > distribution. > > ^--- > Right, and you aren't allowed to distribute binaries from "modified" source. So even if the additional directory required to package it doesn't violate the license, any bugfixes that do not come from an official release of the upstream distribution can't be applied. I personally think that the Debian organization is wonderful for _respecting_ the licenses of the software they distribute, or that they choose _not_ to distribute because the license says they can't. -- I gotta get a .sig on this machine... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Nov 5 11:18:18 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: > A General Pot Stir. > > Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit about > SuSe, could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO > has a case against IBM/RedHat? I think it says that Novell doesn't think the SCO has a case. They've just spent $210M on an asset that is most likely worthless if SCO prevails against IBM. > > Why does the Linux community only bash MS? > Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the same bashing? I'm not sure that Novell has done anything lately that deserves either praise or bashing. IBM doesn't get bashed much because they've adopted two relatively open technologies, Linux and Java, and contribute back to those projects. MS, on the other hand, is only too happy to scoop up some code (like the BSD network stack) and throw it into their own code without so much as a thank you. > Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? Because the DOJ would be all over them if they bought up Redhat. They could have bought Apple for a song 5 years ago, but Apple is worth more as a competitor than as an asset. And of course, why would they buy anyone when they can simply download the Redhat ISOs and fork a MS-Linux. If Microsoft announced a version of Linux tomorrow it would immediately have more name/market recognition than Mandrake, SuSe or Redhat. The big question is how long does it take before we see a distribution from MS that contains a bunch of proprietary .so files that make it play nice W2003 server or even has support for trusted computing. It certainly wouldn't be the first time they'd adopted an open standard and then tweaked on it a bit effectively making it proprietary, e.g. Kerberos. > Who owned PowerPoint before MS? > Who owned Excel before MS? > > I find it interesting the amount of support being displayed for SuSe > being gobbled up by Novel, at the command of IBM. I don't see why > it's good for IBM to put $50m in to Novel and for Novel to buy SuSe, > other then to eliminate the competition. > In 10 years SuSe will not exist, everyone will be saying "Do you > remember that cool IBM Linux distribution before IBM owned it. What > was the name of it, "Sugi?", it was great. What was the window thingy > called, "KBE?", was that it? > You certainly run that risk even if you don't buy into the conspiracy theory. Linux goes along for a few years, becomes a mainstream produce and remains free. ABC comes along and starts to sell a reasonably priced version packaged with support. A bunch of people decide they're willing to pay $50 a year so they can run Linux but don't have to participate in the global scavenger hunt required to get their MP3 player to work, or to print to their new printer. The decentrailized nature of Linux is a two-edge sword. The downside is that there is no one to sign a license if you want to include proprietary technology into Linux. A commercial entity like IBM or MS or Apple finds it easy to license a DVD decoder or driver for the latest 802.11x chip set. In the overall marketplace that is a big deal, and at some point ABC Linux effectively becomes a separate product and the Free Linux goes back to being more of a hobbiest's product. Now maybe ABC is IBM, maybe its Redhat or even MS - I think there's a decent chance it could be Apple, i.e. what would the world look like with an Intel version of OS X? > These big companies spend money like it's water. They don't want to > pay people in this country a fair wage so they send the jobs to other > countries. But it's just fine for them to spend $50m on a company to > get control of it. > Get use to it. In a world with unrestricted capital flows, global wages get equalized. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Nov 5 12:26:18 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Sam MacDonald > Why does the Linux community only bash MS? I think it's unfair to say that only MS gets bashed. However, Microsoft was found guilty of taking advantage of their monopoly powers in a court of law. Not many others have. > Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the same bashing? IBM's got plenty wrong with it. I just happen to love their laptops and despise their practise of sending jobs overseas as so many others do. > I don't see why it's > good for IBM to put $50m in to Novel and for Novel to buy SuSe, other > then to eliminate the competition. Even if the purpose is to elliminate competition, so what? Do you think the public is harmed by the loss of one Linux distribution? Or even many? If there's a business case to be made for another company to step up and deliver a good, unique distribution, someone will do it. The startup costs are as low as you can get. > In 10 years SuSe will not exist, everyone will be saying "Do you > remember that cool IBM Linux distribution before IBM owned it. What was > the name of it, "Sugi?", it was great. What was the window thingy > called, "KBE?", was that it? And if Sugi and KBE are so great now, people will continue to develop them, forked if need be, and they will continue. If interest wanes, the projects will wither and stagnate, and that's exactly how it's supposed to be. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Wed Nov 5 12:18:49 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> Message-ID: <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 11:18, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > These big companies spend money like it's water. They don't want to > > pay people in this country a fair wage so they send the jobs to other > > countries. But it's just fine for them to spend $50m on a company to > > get control of it. > > > Get use to it. In a world with unrestricted capital flows, global wages > get equalized. > > --rick Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a occupation worthy of his wage. Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs overseas all you like, I don't buy it. I really don't mean this personally Sam, we are sorry IBM outsourced your job to another county, but the sooner you can accept that people and companies will ALWAYS take the cheapest solution the happier you will be. You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. All they are doing is paying people the wage they are asking for. There is nothing wrong with that. What is right for you is not necessarily right for everyone. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Nov 5 13:18:35 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> Tom Penney wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 11:18, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > >>Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>>These big companies spend money like it's water. They don't want to >>>pay people in this country a fair wage so they send the jobs to other >>>countries. But it's just fine for them to spend $50m on a company to >>>get control of it. >>> >> >>Get use to it. In a world with unrestricted capital flows, global wages >>get equalized. >> >>--rick > > > Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps > everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less > for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer > to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a > occupation worthy of his wage. > Only as long as: A) it does indeed raise global wages, and B) there are still people who can afford the good/service. The problem with global outsourcing as practiced is it breaks Henry Ford's dictum that the people producing a good should be able to afford it. For all the wrong he may have done, he got that right, and got rich in the process. The gotcha with the current model runs as follows: 1) Mattel manufactures toys more cheaply in China, gains market share 2) other toy makers follow suit. Few/no jobs left making toys in US 3) clothing makers follow suit. 4) shoemakers follow 5) carmakers follow 6) computer makers follow 7) computer software makers follow 8) every other manufacturing business follows (to be competitive) The overseas workers aren't paid enough to buy the product, so the only market is America and Europe. OK, now what are the American people doing to earn the money to buy all these manufactured goods? What jobs _cannot_ be outsourced overseas? Healthcare? Lawyers? Who can afford a doctor or lawyer when they don't have a job? Those jobs go away too. Service jobs go away with the money. If people can't afford the service, they do without. The jobs that are left usually don't pay a living wage. I mean, a cheap apartment in the bad part of town could be had for what? $400/mo? _assuming_ that your job is within walking distance (most aren't, that is why rent is so cheap there) $0 for car/bus, you still have to pay $100/mo for food, $35 for phone (a real requirement these days), $25/mo for electricity/heat, $30/mo for clothes (laundry still has to be done), $20/mo(average) for health care. Sitting at $610/mo. These are lowball numbers in general, and I know that you can cut your rent by having a live-in-thief, um I mean roommate. But even at that, you would be just scraping by at minimum wage. Assuming nothing bad happens. My calculations indicate that you would need to make $4.50/hr to just barely get by as above, no reserves. and I have made some really generous assumptions. Minimum wage is $5.15/hr. People aren't buying new stuff at all at $5.15/hr, they are scraping by and stealing each other's laundry. There is no market there. > Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs > overseas all you like, I don't buy it. > I would argue that they are stupid for sending jobs overseas, it undermines their own market. > I really don't mean this personally Sam, we are sorry IBM outsourced > your job to another county, but the sooner you can accept that people > and companies will ALWAYS take the cheapest solution the happier you > will be. You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more > to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. All they > are doing is paying people the wage they are asking for. There is > nothing wrong with that. What is right for you is not necessarily right > for everyone. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Wed Nov 5 13:58:59 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptops galore In-Reply-To: <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> Message-ID: <7EC14D22-0FCA-11D8-A4AE-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> I have 3 laptops that I would like to get rid of: One is a Sony slimtop, PIII 550. 10GB drive, 128 of ram. Battery needs some replacing, and I don't have the external cdrom, so you'd have to do a network install on it or borrow someone's external cdrom. I think Munir has one. :) $400 firm (I could get more on ebay for it, but I'm lazy) One is a Dell PII 266 I think. Don't have it in front of me, but if you're interested, drop me a line and I'll get you more details. No price right now until I can look at it and remember everything it has. The last one is a uber-sweet Toshiba Pentium 90. It's beigish/gray and the pointer has a mind of it's own sometimes. But it plays mp3's just fine, and makes a nice countertop web browser. $75/obo Just got my shiny new iBook G4, and I don't need these anymore. :) Oh, I also have 2 3com Audreys. $90 each. One was just taken out of the box a couple of days ago. http://www.audreyhacking.com has some nice info on them. -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scheides at iexposure.com Wed Nov 5 14:05:23 2003 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: The FREE, 0% APR, Better Sex, No Effort Diet In-Reply-To: <3FA88622.8050208@comcast.net> References: <3FA88622.8050208@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311051405.23441.scheides@iexposure.com> "Schools often provide free food for you and your staff for working meetings during lunch. Assuming that you eat about $8 worth of food during the extra hour of work, that turns out to be about $16,000 per year." Mr. Strauss obviously never attended his arithmatic classes: $8 x 5 days/week x 52 weeks/year = $2080 and != $16,000 unless he grew up in a world where you work 40 days per week... -scheides On Tuesday 04 November 2003 11:09 pm, Todd Young wrote: > Dear Howard Strauss, > > I read your article on-line in the Syllabus....interesting reading. > http://www.syllabus.com/article.asp?id=8460 > > I'm still trying to decide if you were being sarcastic, or if you really > view Linux and Open Source as a toy/tool for "teenagers too young to > work at Redmond, hackers, virus creators, and a menagerie of others"? > > If you were writing the article with "tongue in cheek", then kudos, you > managed to stir up some serious discussion about Linux. > > If you were serious when you wrote the article, then I have to wonder if > Microsoft paid you to write the article as yet another piece of FUD > (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about Linux. The end of the article has a > line that your are "the manager of technology strategy and outreach at > Princeton University." My experience with some managers is that they > only know what their employees tell them when it comes to technical > matters, especially so in the IT world. So my question to you is, do you > know a server from a desktop? Do you know what the Linux operating > system is? Do you know what Open Source software is? Did you know that > Apache web server, an Open Source application, currently runs on almost > 66% of the web servers on the Internet? Don't believe me, check out > www.netcraft.com. As of 03Nov2003, Apache accounts for 67.41% of the web > servers on the Internet. > > If Linux and Open Source are indeed a toy/tool for "teenagers too young > to work at Redmond, hackers, virus creators, and a menagerie of others", > then why, pray tell, are major manufacturers supporting and utilizing > Linux in their production environments? Why does IBM, a major player in > the IT world, support Linux on their products, including mainframes? Why > has Novell bought Ximian and is now looking to buy SuSE, both of which > are Open Source, one an application, the other a distribution of Linux? > > If Linux is the root of such evil, why then has a Linux firewall been > protecting my home network FROM intruders for over 2 years with a 100% > success rate of keeping out intruders and worms? Why then is an embedded > Linux device serving as a dial-up modem and firewall combination for my > retired father and his WindowsXP computer? > > If you are really so deluded that you believe Linux to be the root of > such evil, then I neither hate nor despise you, I pity you. Please feel > free to keep you head buried so far in the sand that you can't see the > world changing around you. Linux and Open Source are here to stay, and > will only continue to gain market share, both in the private sector and > in the business sector. Linux gives companies and private individuals > the opportunity to get off the hardware upgrade merry-go-round that > Microsoft would have everyone believe is the norm. Microsoft's operating > systems keep getting larger and larger each year. Meanwhile, my Linux > based firewall is running on a Pentium1 computer with only 128Megs of > RAM and a simple 1.5 gigabyte hard drive. I would love to see Microsoft > beat that. > > I welcome your comments/rebuttal. > > Sincerely, > Todd Young > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Chris Scheidecker Associate Systems Administrator cscheidecker@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com 612.676.1946 x33 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Nov 5 14:15:08 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptops galore In-Reply-To: <7EC14D22-0FCA-11D8-A4AE-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <7EC14D22-0FCA-11D8-A4AE-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <20031105201508.GD13537@fandre.com> Come on Jay, I spent all this time getting the new classifieds app working and you don't even use it? Is that the thanks I get? On Wed, 05 Nov 2003, Jay Austad wrote: > I have 3 laptops that I would like to get rid of: > > One is a Sony slimtop, PIII 550. 10GB drive, 128 of ram. Battery > needs some replacing, and I don't have the external cdrom, so you'd > have to do a network install on it or borrow someone's external cdrom. > I think Munir has one. :) $400 firm (I could get more on ebay for it, > but I'm lazy) > > One is a Dell PII 266 I think. Don't have it in front of me, but if > you're interested, drop me a line and I'll get you more details. No > price right now until I can look at it and remember everything it has. > > The last one is a uber-sweet Toshiba Pentium 90. It's beigish/gray and > the pointer has a mind of it's own sometimes. But it plays mp3's > just fine, and makes a nice countertop web browser. $75/obo > > Just got my shiny new iBook G4, and I don't need these anymore. :) > > Oh, I also have 2 3com Audreys. $90 each. One was just taken out of > the box a couple of days ago. http://www.audreyhacking.com has some > nice info on them. > > -jay > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 5 14:34:25 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) *** NOW OFF TOPIC *** In-Reply-To: <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FA95ED1.6060105@visi.com> http://www.ibmemployee.com/ Read from the above website and find out the facts Tom. Not just from me as a past IBMer but from many past and present IBMers. You know what Tom, I was never talking about, just me, this is not about, just me. This has and will happen to many people, and in time it may happen to you. If, as a people, we do not stand up for ourselves and everyone we know. We will be no better off then the Russian people during Stalinism. England could have accepted the Nazi's, we could have accepted the nazi's. We didn't we stood our ground and said "NO" and we stopped the nazi's. How dare you! How dare you even say the first part, of the first sentence, of the third paragraph. Saying "I don't mean this personally Sam". Get a clue son, you made it personal by writing that line, you addressed me directly. You are right "Tom", I will never convince anyone, I don't want to. I only want to ask questions that may stimulate thought along another line, thats all. You on the other hand have to be correct about everything. By the way Tom, I would never make a comment about you or anyone else, like the last line of the first paragraph. Your arrogance is beyond comprehension, by attempting to degrade others you attempt to make yourself look superior. Tom please find a job, doing what you do now, at $2.50 an hour. Now tell me, can you pay the bills you have at that rate of pay? Is that a living wage in this country? How many people could be paid a living wage with what the CEO of IBM makes? How much have these CEO's invested (for personal gain) in these companies in other countrys? Let the people in other countrys come up with their own jobs, let them work as hard as I have for as long as I have and then tell me they "earned" it. Don't you dare try to tell me "people in other countrys deserve to have MY job" because they can do it cheaper! I put in long hours and missed a lot of things I shouldn't have. I put myself in to my work, I have passion for what I do. How does the largest I/T company in the world reward me? I made the mistake of going to work for them, I learned my lesson. And now I want to make sure other people are informed. Tom, please go to Curly's bar in the West End of Duluth and spew you rhetoric. I know for sure several guys will be happy educate you on good and evil, right and wrong. Sam. P.S. Tom if you ever get laid off and can't find a job, I would be happy to lend you the names and phone numbers of the nice people who have gotten me several interviews. I have not been the first choice, but I have always been in the running. I mean this sincerely because it is no fun being behind on the bills. >Tom Penney Wrote > >Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps >everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less >for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer >to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a >occupation worthy of his wage. > >Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs >overseas all you like, I don't buy it. > >I really don't mean this personally Sam, we are sorry IBM outsourced >your job to another county, but the sooner you can accept that people >and companies will ALWAYS take the cheapest solution the happier you >will be. You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more >to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. All they >are doing is paying people the wage they are asking for. There is >nothing wrong with that. What is right for you is not necessarily right >for everyone. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Nov 5 14:39:59 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam-Assassin and Bayes Learning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Being the lazy type, I hashed out a script to take care of sa-learn tasks for me. All I do is sort my mail into sa.caught (where caught spam gets dumped), sa.notcaught (where I move spam messages that spam assassin didn't catch), and sa.falsepositive (for false positives.) The false positives usually prompt me to move things around and run my script. Like I said, I'm lazy. sa-learn --no-rebuild --ham --mbox sa.falsepositive sa-learn --no-rebuild --spam --mbox sa.notcaught sa-learn --rebuild I do the rebuild of the database seperatly so I can fire off the first two commands and walk away while the rebuild finishes. Better things to do than wait around to run the next command... Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Wed Nov 5 14:53:59 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spam-Assassin and Bayes Learning References: Message-ID: <00e101c3a3de$eff31ba0$d037630a@nic.target.com> I am using Courier IMAP and maildir format, so I created the following script which is kicked off periodically via cron. #!/bin/bash # ${HOME}/.spamassassin/sa-learn.sh MAIL_DIR=${HOME}/.maildir/ GOOD_DIR=${MAIL_DIR}/.Spam.Process.Good SPAM_DIR=${MAIL_DIR}/.Spam.Process.Bad SA_LEARN=/usr/bin/sa-learn if [ ! -x ${SA_LEARN} ]; then exit 0 fi if [ -d ${SPAM_DIR} ]; then cd ${SPAM_DIR}/cur FILES=`ls` for f in ${FILES}; do cat ${f} | ${SA_LEARN} --spam &> /dev/null rm -f ${f} done fi if [ -d ${GOOD_DIR} ]; then cd ${GOOD_DIR}/cur FILES=`ls` for f in ${FILES}; do cat ${f} | ${SA_LEARN} --ham &> /dev/null rm -f ${f} done fi Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Spam-Assassin and Bayes Learning > Being the lazy type, I hashed out a script to take care of sa-learn tasks > for me. All I do is sort my mail into sa.caught (where caught spam gets > dumped), sa.notcaught (where I move spam messages that spam assassin > didn't catch), and sa.falsepositive (for false positives.) > > The false positives usually prompt me to move things around and run my > script. Like I said, I'm lazy. > > sa-learn --no-rebuild --ham --mbox sa.falsepositive > sa-learn --no-rebuild --spam --mbox sa.notcaught > sa-learn --rebuild > > I do the rebuild of the database seperatly so I can fire off the first two > commands and walk away while the rebuild finishes. Better things to do > than wait around to run the next command... > > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Nov 5 14:55:28 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Off-topic global wages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Tom Penney > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 11:18, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > > Get use to it. In a world with unrestricted capital flows, global wages > > get equalized. > Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps > everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less > for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer > to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a > occupation worthy of his wage. I'm with you, Tom, unless there are artificial restrictions keeping wages low or stopping the free trade. For instance, I can't go to India and get a sweet $30/hr programming gig (which would probably pay for a nice house with a staff) because I'm not allowed to work there. > Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs > overseas all you like, I don't buy it. I'm all for unions, too, especially in underdeveloped economies where the safety and health of minimum wage earners might not be the highest priority. > You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more > to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. We don't have to. A lot of them do it already. It turns out it's usually good for business too. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Wed Nov 5 16:46:06 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptops galore In-Reply-To: <20031105201508.GD13537@fandre.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <7EC14D22-0FCA-11D8-A4AE-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> <20031105201508.GD13537@fandre.com> Message-ID: Heh, I was too lazy to register. :) On Nov 5, 2003, at 2:15 PM, Clay Fandre wrote: > Come on Jay, I spent all this time getting the new classifieds app > working and you don't even use it? Is that the thanks I get? > > On Wed, 05 Nov 2003, Jay Austad wrote: > >> I have 3 laptops that I would like to get rid of: >> >> One is a Sony slimtop, PIII 550. 10GB drive, 128 of ram. Battery >> needs some replacing, and I don't have the external cdrom, so you'd >> have to do a network install on it or borrow someone's external cdrom. >> I think Munir has one. :) $400 firm (I could get more on ebay for >> it, >> but I'm lazy) >> >> One is a Dell PII 266 I think. Don't have it in front of me, but if >> you're interested, drop me a line and I'll get you more details. No >> price right now until I can look at it and remember everything it has. >> >> The last one is a uber-sweet Toshiba Pentium 90. It's beigish/gray >> and >> the pointer has a mind of it's own sometimes. But it plays mp3's >> just fine, and makes a nice countertop web browser. $75/obo >> >> Just got my shiny new iBook G4, and I don't need these anymore. :) >> >> Oh, I also have 2 3com Audreys. $90 each. One was just taken out of >> the box a couple of days ago. http://www.audreyhacking.com has some >> nice info on them. >> >> -jay >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gfischer at visi.com Wed Nov 5 16:49:08 2003 From: gfischer at visi.com (George Fischer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine Message-ID: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? -- George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Wed Nov 5 17:06:58 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine In-Reply-To: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> References: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FA98292.2000900@andersonfam.org> Have you checked out General Nanosystems? They're local (University Ave), and will build you a custom computer with no OS... http://www.nanosys1.com/ -Erik George Fischer wrote: > Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations > for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Wed Nov 5 17:08:00 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora Message-ID: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> This question is probably a question for Bob Tanner et. al. What is the status of Fedora? Do you expect the mirror of Fedora Core 1 to be up tomorrow? Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 5 17:22:20 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine In-Reply-To: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> References: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FA9862C.8000902@visi.com> www.mwave.com excellent customer service! Assemble all the parts that you want. You will know they are compatible with the distro you will use because you can check then out before you buy. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 17:22:13 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine In-Reply-To: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> References: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FA98625.2030707@comcast.net> Try General Nanosys on University in Minneapolis, right by the "witches tower" (I can never remember the name of that building). Their web site: http://www.nanosys1.com/ They will sell you parts or a complete system, with or without an operating system. I purchased my primary system from Nanosys over two years ago and it's still going strong. A 750MHz Duron with a DVDROM drive and a 20Gig hard drive. I added a CDBurner and LOTS of RAM (768Megs). George Fischer wrote: > Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations > for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 5 17:34:37 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting Friday! Message-ID: --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, November 7, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Upstairs at McGovern's 225 W. 7th St. St. Paul, MN Phone: 651-224-5821 Details: One from our regular rotation. Good food, beer, and atmosphere. Come share a beer or pop with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- The reservation is for 12 people. We'll see... Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 5 17:34:37 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting Friday! Message-ID: --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, November 7, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Upstairs at McGovern's 225 W. 7th St. St. Paul, MN Phone: 651-224-5821 Details: One from our regular rotation. Good food, beer, and atmosphere. Come share a beer or pop with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- The reservation is for 12 people. We'll see... Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Wed Nov 5 18:33:49 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FA91F48.9040008@argle.org> References: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031105060823.56c44077.sfertch@real-time.com> <3FA91F48.9040008@argle.org> Message-ID: <20031105183349.3754507f.sfertch@real-time.com> On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:20 -0600 Daniel Taylor wrote: > I thought I had read it. I've used most of those as well as some > others. Simple things like code portablility. How many "special" > options you need to even compile packages with GCC on each platform. > Varied libraries, wierd options to common utilities like 'ps' it's a > real mixed bag when you deal with commercial Unix. > Generally, my experience has been that overall, on most boxes that I've dealt with, most commands are very similar. Yes, there's minor variances, but overall the "core" of them are very similar. The only exceptions would be older versions of the OS' have commands lacking in more recent versions. > At least with Linux you know you don't have half of your admin > executables in /etc, some in /bin, some in /usr/ucb/bin, some stuff > off in /opt/*/bin/, and who knows where else stuff got installed. > Generally, no. But, OTOH, there are various config files scattered around on the different platforms in very different locations with Linux. Same holds true with the UNIXes, but doesn't seem to be as varied to me. > Yeah, you have different package managers, but they are of a kind. > There isn't a general admin interface as good as smit yet, but a > couple are making progress in that direction. KDE and Gnome are > starting to narrow in on a decent UI, though I wish both of them would > cut down the memory intensive eyecandy on the default installs. > > If you are "old school" you go with fvwm or something else lean and > familiar, and it is there. All the core command line utils are > available for every distro, and THE LIBRARIES ARE ALWAYS THE SAME! > YAY! > Don't use Gnome or KDE. Heck, I can't stand CDE on the UNIXes either. I'm a fvwm2 user myself. Can't stand the bloat that so many desktop environments are using now... > AIX has smit, smit is awesome. All else is forgiven. > Smit/Smitty sucks. Granted is has more functionality than most other admin tools out there compared to Admintool (Solaris), Sysman/diskconfig (Tru64), SAM (HP-UX). But, it really does suck. The one tool that I have to say I like most is diskconfig from Tru64, but even then it has it's limitations. I'm a relatively new admin (meaning about 2 years of experience), but I prefer "old school" and wanting to know the command line interface to each administrative function. Just in case you can't get the admintools to work properly, and IMO, most times it's faster at the command line. Thus, the reason why I prefer Slack for my distro of choice. Sure, you can strip Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake down to a minimal system. But, it's far more work for that, IMO, than it is to install a base system and build up to what you want. > "Some of the base packages" Like pretty much every useful command-line > utility, _all_ the core libraries, X11 and the classic window > managers, ghostview, an available selection of daemons (with different > default selections), samba, and the kernel providing common nfs and > firewalling service. Show me two commercial Unixes that have as much > in common and I'll shut my mouth about it. The major distros have even > settled pretty nicely on the structure of /etc, though there are still > SysV vs BSD camps on init. > File locations aside, most of the big UNIXes "generally" come with most of what you've listed with recent versions. If it's not there, install it. Same with Linux on installation. Solaris, Tru64, and HP-UX all use the init commands. Last time I worked on an AIX box, you still have to put an entry in inetd.conf. Although, I will admit to being primarily an admin for HP-UX and Tru64. It's been a little while since I've seriously worked on a Solaris box, and quite a while on and AIX box. If Linux is so standardized, why is it that programs that are written for Linux are generally written for Red Hat, SuSe or Debian? If it works on one, it should work on all of them without a lot of dicking around and configuring the distro to get it to work. If it ever truly does. > Because Linux isn't encumbered with the BSD license, I think this is > _one_ shakedown of Linux companies. I think that it will continue to > cycle with new companies coming in to the fray as old ones mature, > die, or get acquired. RedHat is pretty mature, and they have found > their niche. > I'll agree, and that's basically what was saying. The UNIXes went thru a number of shakedowns over the years. I don't see Linux being any different. > > Linux is the kernel. That is all what Linux is. A distro is far > > more than just packages on it's base install. It's where they place > > things, tools they use for administration, etc. > > > The core admin tools are the same. I expect that as new generations of > admin tools come out they will mature and become standard. > Are they? Maybe vi/emacs and editing of files (if they exist) are the same. But does linuxconf exist on my Slack system? No. Does netconfig exist on a Red Hat system? Not the last time I checked (been a while admittedly). Hell, even the way to setup static routes (not soft, but hard set static routes) varies greatly on the different Linux distros. Aside from putting the route add command into rc.local or the various init scripts, you're all over the filesystem on each platform. That is IF they have files that are read on init. Red Hat has you putting it into a file that doesn't exist on other platforms, others tell you to put the route add command into rc.local. IMO, something like that should be standardized. Granted the commercial UNIXes have their different ways of doing it in terms of file locations, but so far my experience has been that it's always been a text file generally under the /etc tree. Yes, there's always the argument that you can "customize" your box to how you want it. But, I'm talking standard defaults of the system on install. Not to offend anyone here on the list, but in a corporate world most times you don't have the luxuries to customize the systems to how YOU OR I want them. They (meaning corporate world) want as default of a system as possible so that as admins come and go, it's generic enough for the replacement admins to figure out wihtout spending a lot of time learning. The admin can always be replaced, the boxes when put into a production environment can't be taken offline and rebuilt/changed/whatever to accomodate the preference of the admin who just came in. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Wed Nov 5 18:29:57 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) *** NOW OFF TOPIC *** In-Reply-To: <3FA95ED1.6060105@visi.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA95ED1.6060105@visi.com> Message-ID: <1068078597.29006.484.camel@lotsa> On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 14:34, Sam MacDonald wrote: > How dare you! How dare you even say the first part, of the first > sentence, of the third paragraph. Saying "I don't mean this personally > Sam". Get a clue son, you made it personal by writing that line, you > addressed me directly. You are right Sam. I did make this personal and I shouldn't have. I have obviously offended you and that was not my intent. If I try to put myself in your place then go back and read what an I wrote I see what an ass I was for directing my comments at you personally. I did not intend to degrade you or the the job you did at IBM. My intent was to voice my opinion on this off topic subject. You often voice your opinion on this subject on this list. Yours is an opinion which differs greatly from mine. > You are right "Tom", I will never convince anyone, I don't want to. I > only want to ask questions that may stimulate thought along another > line, thats all. You on the other hand have to be correct about > everything. By the way Tom, I would never make a comment about you or > anyone else, like the last line of the first paragraph. Your arrogance > is beyond comprehension, by attempting to degrade others you attempt to > make yourself look superior. I'm not superior to you or anyone else. I'm not correct about everything, although sometimes I like to think I am. My opinions are only opinions and you are free to discount them. I read this list because I would like to know more about linux than I do. Not to voice my politics as I find myself doing. > Tom please find a job, doing what you do now, at $2.50 an hour. Now > tell me, can you pay the bills you have at that rate of pay? Is that a > living wage in this country? How many people could be paid a living > wage with what the CEO of IBM makes? How much have these CEO's invested > (for personal gain) in these companies in other countrys? The world does not owe me a living wage. I am fortunate enough to live in a society where I can be productive enough to earn one. If I had to feed my family on $2.50 an hour I would find a way. Millions of people feed their families on less, they should not have to and fortunately I do not have to. > Let the people in other countrys come up with their own jobs, let them > work as hard as I have for as long as I have and then tell me they > "earned" it. Don't you dare try to tell me "people in other countrys > deserve to have MY job" because they can do it cheaper! I put in long > hours and missed a lot of things I shouldn't have. I put myself in to > my work, I have passion for what I do. How does the largest I/T company > in the world reward me? I made the mistake of going to work for them, I > learned my lesson. And now I want to make sure other people are informed. > Tom, please go to Curly's bar in the West End of Duluth and spew you > rhetoric. I know for sure several guys will be happy educate you on > good and evil, right and wrong. I'm sure they would try. I'm sure a pro choice person would get an ear full at a pro life rally too. I'm sure Sara Brady would be "educated" at an NRA meeting too. But in the end the market decides where the money goes, it always has and always will. I will try to be in the place where the money is going. If I do go to Curly's I'll keep my mouth shut, pay for the goods and services they have provided me along with a generous tip, and be on my way. Again, Sam, I do apologize for being an ass. People with differing opinions can get along. I hope when we meet face to face we can be civil. - Tom > Sam. > > P.S. Tom if you ever get laid off and can't find a job, I would be > happy to lend you the names and phone numbers of the nice people who > have gotten me several interviews. I have not been the first choice, > but I have always been in the running. I mean this sincerely because it > is no fun being behind on the bills. > > >Tom Penney Wrote > > > >Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps > >everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less > >for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer > >to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a > >occupation worthy of his wage. > > > >Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs > >overseas all you like, I don't buy it. > > > >I really don't mean this personally Sam, we are sorry IBM outsourced > >your job to another county, but the sooner you can accept that people > >and companies will ALWAYS take the cheapest solution the happier you > >will be. You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more > >to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. All they > >are doing is paying people the wage they are asking for. There is > >nothing wrong with that. What is right for you is not necessarily right > >for everyone. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at myrealbox.com Wed Nov 5 18:57:23 2003 From: kcbnac at myrealbox.com (K B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine Message-ID: <1068080243.78dcef00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> I actually built my own- all works, no problems. Cost me about $1,000...til I added dual LCDs :) This was six months ago, so prices have come down some: (Amounts are off the top of my head, might be slightly different) Athlon XP 2600+ (Retail) $105 Asus A7N8X Deluxe $125 512MB DDR 2700 Kingston HyperX (CL2) $74 (3) 120GB WD Special Edition (8MB Cache) $100/ea DVD-ROM $10 (Office Max rebate) CD-RW $0 (Rebates, can't remember which one, have spares) GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB $90 (Best Buy, 'Day after Thanksgiving Sale' 2002) (2) Promise ATA/133 Controller cards (so every device on own controller) $35/ea (2) 17" CRTs $90 ea (new, rebates from Best Buy from 1-2 years ago, sitting unopened, decided to use) Modem $100 Linux compatible- picked up from CompUSA (can't think of brand right now...name brand though...good one) worked out of box with RH 9 and Mandrake 9.1 (2.4 kernel, I believe, box said 2.2) Antec Case (Think old Alienware) $66+shipping 550 Watt Antec PS $118 + shipping Most parts ordered from Newegg, unless otherwise stated More questions? Fire away. -----Original Message----- From: George Fischer To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:49:08 -0600 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? -- George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Wed Nov 5 19:29:29 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine In-Reply-To: <1068080243.78dcef00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> References: <1068080243.78dcef00kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: I saw something on dealnews.com or one of those sites the other day that said you could get a new Dell desktop w/ 2.2ghz proc for $200. Not a bad deal at all. -jay On Nov 5, 2003, at 6:57 PM, K B wrote: > I actually built my own- all works, no problems. Cost me about > $1,000...til I added dual LCDs :) > > This was six months ago, so prices have come down some: > > (Amounts are off the top of my head, might be slightly different) > Athlon XP 2600+ (Retail) $105 > Asus A7N8X Deluxe $125 > 512MB DDR 2700 Kingston HyperX (CL2) $74 > (3) 120GB WD Special Edition (8MB Cache) $100/ea > DVD-ROM $10 (Office Max rebate) > CD-RW $0 (Rebates, can't remember which one, have spares) > GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB $90 (Best Buy, 'Day after Thanksgiving Sale' > 2002) > (2) Promise ATA/133 Controller cards (so every device on own > controller) $35/ea > (2) 17" CRTs $90 ea (new, rebates from Best Buy from 1-2 years ago, > sitting unopened, decided to use) > Modem $100 Linux compatible- picked up from CompUSA (can't think of > brand right now...name brand though...good one) worked out of box with > RH 9 and Mandrake 9.1 (2.4 kernel, I believe, box said 2.2) > Antec Case (Think old Alienware) $66+shipping > 550 Watt Antec PS $118 + shipping > > Most parts ordered from Newegg, unless otherwise stated > > More questions? Fire away. > > -----Original Message----- > From: George Fischer > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:49:08 -0600 > Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine > > Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations > for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? > -- > George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rgullick at pressenter.com Wed Nov 5 19:54:58 2003 From: rgullick at pressenter.com (robert gullickson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GAIM, sound problems Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031105195458.00c2b000@pop.pressenter.com> Running RH9, upgraded to the new GAIM a couple of weeks ago and the sound doesn't work with it. Any suggestions, ideas appreciated. Thanks, rgullick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu Nov 6 00:43:34 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations > for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? > -- > George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com For Internet purchases, I've never tried ibuypower, but I have purchased from BUY.com, mwave, newegg, pcconnection and compuplus (which has great prices if you want one of the 50 things they have, and want it 2nd day). For local purchases, you can buy parts and build a computer from Micro Center, General Nanosystems and Tran Micro. I've used all three. Tran will even assemble your parts while you wait for free. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Nov 6 08:07:09 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Why we need digital signatures! Fwd: Re: BK2CVS problem Message-ID: <20031106140709.GD3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.alitz at earthlink.net Thu Nov 6 08:22:55 2003 From: david.alitz at earthlink.net (David Alitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> Message-ID: <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> So, you think all of those healthcare workers and lawyers will be in the streets and all of the good apartments will just sit empty? The price of goods and our standard of living :( will have to adjust to something more in line with the rest of the world. Hopefully it will take a while to drop that far. This has become a bit of an obsession for me and I could spend hours in explanation, but this is getting pretty far OT. Take a look at www.myfootprint.org . Read "Your Money or Your Life: Transforming Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin and "Stepping Lightly" by Mark A. Burch. I've read dozens of books on the subject, these two sum it up well. myfootprint.org and Stepping Lightly will give you some great perspective and Your Money or Your Life help plan what to do about it. Your Money or Your Life should be required reading for everyone. Back on-topic... It's just this re-balancing that I believe will drive people to open-source. The small business I'm working for couldn't possibly afford the services I've set up if I used M$ software. I'm afraid Apple still wants too much for their hardware. That leaves Linux and i386 class machines. :) Dave Alitz > Healthcare? Lawyers? Who can afford a doctor or lawyer when they don't > have a job? Those jobs go away too. Service jobs go away with > the money. If people can't afford the service, they do without. > > The jobs that are left usually don't pay a living wage. > I mean, a cheap apartment in the bad part of town could be had for what? > $400/mo? _assuming_ that your job is within walking distance (most > aren't, that is why rent is so cheap there) $0 for car/bus, you still > have to pay $100/mo for food, $35 for phone (a real requirement these > days), $25/mo for electricity/heat, $30/mo for clothes (laundry still > has to be done), > $20/mo(average) for health care. Sitting at $610/mo. These are lowball > numbers in general, and I know that you can cut your rent by having > a live-in-thief, um I mean roommate. But even at that, you would be > just scraping by at minimum wage. Assuming nothing bad happens. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Nov 6 08:22:54 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3793@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I will have to second...third whatever the vote for general nanosystems... I recently had to build a new system due to a lightning strike and they were very helpful tested the cpu mobo and ram there in shop and my system is running incredibly smooth with beautiful beautiful slackware.... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of George Fischer Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:49 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? -- George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Thu Nov 6 09:30:44 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:44:02AM -0600 References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031106093044.E15094@joelschneider.net> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:44:02AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I find it interesting the amount of support being displayed for SuSe > being gobbled up by Novel, at the command of IBM. I don't see why it's > good for IBM to put $50m in to Novel and for Novel to buy SuSe, other > then to eliminate the competition. It's possible the buyout could be a good thing for SuSE. Back around 2000, Red Hat had a very successful IPO. Unfortunately, SuSE was unable to complete an IPO in time to cash in on the dot-com bubble and now is not a great time for a SuSE IPO. The Novell buyout could help solidify the financial future of SuSE. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Thu Nov 6 09:38:37 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Off-topic global wages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FAA6AFD.5020604@visi.com> I thought I'd let this die, but I ran across these two links this morning that were so on the off-topic that I couldn't resist. The first is a report by the Fisher Center at Berkeley that takes a detailed look at the next wave of outsourcing. If nothing else it provides a lot of background reference for things like wages, number of jobs, etc. I was shocked to see that Canadian programmers only make an average of $28K US. Anyway its an interesting read. There is also an interview with one of the authors on Salon.com that is a little less dire. --rick http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/news/Research_Report_Fall_2003.pdf http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/11/05/outsourcing_report/index_np.html Chris Schumann wrote: >>From: Tom Penney >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) >> >> > > > >>On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 11:18, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: >> >> >>>Get use to it. In a world with unrestricted capital flows, global wages >>>get equalized. >>> >>> > > > >>Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps >>everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less >>for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer >>to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a >>occupation worthy of his wage. >> >> > >I'm with you, Tom, unless there are artificial restrictions keeping >wages low or stopping the free trade. For instance, I can't go to >India and get a sweet $30/hr programming gig (which would probably >pay for a nice house with a staff) because I'm not allowed to work >there. > > > >>Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs >>overseas all you like, I don't buy it. >> >> > >I'm all for unions, too, especially in underdeveloped economies where the >safety and health of minimum wage earners might not be the highest priority. > > > >>You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more >>to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. >> >> > >We don't have to. A lot of them do it already. It turns out it's usually >good for business too. > >Chris > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Thu Nov 6 09:51:27 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031105183349.3754507f.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031105060823.56c44077.sfertch@real-time.com> <3FA91F48.9040008@argle.org> <20031105183349.3754507f.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FAA6DFF.8030306@argle.org> Shawn wrote: > On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:20 -0600 > Daniel Taylor wrote: > >>AIX has smit, smit is awesome. All else is forgiven. >> > > Smit/Smitty sucks. Granted is has more functionality than most other admin tools out there compared to Admintool (Solaris), Sysman/diskconfig (Tru64), SAM (HP-UX). But, it really does suck. The one tool that I have to say I like most is diskconfig from Tru64, but even then it has it's limitations. I'm a relatively new admin (meaning about 2 years of experience), but I prefer "old school" and wanting to know the command line interface to each administrative function. Just in case you can't get the admintools to work properly, and IMO, most times it's faster at the command line. Thus, the reason why I prefer Slack for my distro of choice. Sure, you can strip Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake down to a minimal system. But, it's far more work for that, IMO, than it is to install a base system and build up to what you want. > It's not perfect, but I still have yet to see a better general admin tool. > > >>"Some of the base packages" Like pretty much every useful command-line >>utility, _all_ the core libraries, X11 and the classic window >>managers, ghostview, an available selection of daemons (with different >>default selections), samba, and the kernel providing common nfs and >>firewalling service. Show me two commercial Unixes that have as much >>in common and I'll shut my mouth about it. The major distros have even >>settled pretty nicely on the structure of /etc, though there are still >>SysV vs BSD camps on init. >> > > File locations aside, most of the big UNIXes "generally" come with most of what you've listed with recent versions. If it's not there, install it. Same with Linux on installation. Solaris, Tru64, and HP-UX all use the init commands. Last time I worked on an AIX box, you still have to put an entry in inetd.conf. Although, I will admit to being primarily an admin for HP-UX and Tru64. It's been a little while since I've seriously worked on a Solaris box, and quite a while on and AIX box. > "Generally" is correct. IF I install a new Linux distro, I _expect_ that I will have installed or immediately available _all_ of the above. If I install Solaris, I expect that _some_ will be installed, and that I will have to hack around libraries and get source to install the rest. That, and the hacks and deviant packages will be different if I'm using UW, Tru64, HPUX, or AIX. FreeBSD has more in common with Linux than Solaris has with Tru64 in my experience. > If Linux is so standardized, why is it that programs that are written for Linux are generally written for Red Hat, SuSe or Debian? If it works on one, it should work on all of them without a lot of dicking around and configuring the distro to get it to work. If it ever truly does. > Because the people who are packaging the binaries are malinformed or lazy and don't know how easy it can be to generate rpm, deb, and tgz from the same source package. I have worked on projects packaged and tested for multiple distro's. Apart from having a partition with the distro installed on it to boot to for testing, it just isn't that much extra work. > > >>Because Linux isn't encumbered with the BSD license, I think this is >>_one_ shakedown of Linux companies. I think that it will continue to >>cycle with new companies coming in to the fray as old ones mature, >>die, or get acquired. RedHat is pretty mature, and they have found >>their niche. >> > > I'll agree, and that's basically what was saying. The UNIXes went thru a number of shakedowns over the years. I don't see Linux being any different. > My position: the GPL does not eliminate the business sycle, but it does eliminate the deleterious effect of lost software due to the business cycle. > >>>Linux is the kernel. That is all what Linux is. A distro is far >>>more than just packages on it's base install. It's where they place >>>things, tools they use for administration, etc. >>> >> >>The core admin tools are the same. I expect that as new generations of >>admin tools come out they will mature and become standard. >> > > Are they? Maybe vi/emacs and editing of files (if they exist) are the same. But does linuxconf exist on my Slack system? No. Does netconfig exist on a Red Hat system? Not the last time I checked (been a while admittedly). Hell, even the way to setup static routes (not soft, but hard set static routes) varies greatly on the different Linux distros. Aside from putting the route add command into rc.local or the various init scripts, you're all over the filesystem on each platform. That is IF they have files that are read on init. Red Hat has you putting it into a file that doesn't exist on other platforms, others tell you to put the route add command into rc.local. IMO, something like that should be standardized. Granted the commercial UNIXes have their different ways of doing it in terms of file locations, but so far my experience has been that it's always been a text file generally under the /etc tree. > I do not consider linuxconf/kudzu/kcontrol/etc. to be _core_ admin tools. They are nice for those who want to use them. Yes, vi/emacs on text files, m4, awk, perl, and the basic sysinfo command line tools are what I consider "core admin tools" everything else is built up from them. > Yes, there's always the argument that you can "customize" your box to how you want it. But, I'm talking standard defaults of the system on install. Not to offend anyone here on the list, but in a corporate world most times you don't have the luxuries to customize the systems to how YOU OR I want them. They (meaning corporate world) want as default of a system as possible so that as admins come and go, it's generic enough for the replacement admins to figure out wihtout spending a lot of time learning. The admin can always be replaced, the boxes when put into a production environment can't be taken offline and rebuilt/changed/whatever to accomodate the preference of the admin who just came in. > Exactly. This is why I do not consider most of the GUI helper tools to be "core admin tools". A decent admin _should_ be able to check the system out pretty thouroghly over a terminal without having to resort to GUI tools. Yes, the GUI tools make life easier, but they aren't standard enough yet and most of the ones I've seen take an information hiding approach that makes it harder for an inexperienced admin to become an experienced admin. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rodneyray at earthlink.net Thu Nov 6 10:12:31 2003 From: rodneyray at earthlink.net (Rodney Ray) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptops galore Message-ID: <17488686.1068135152857.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> I would be interested in 1 or 2 of the 3com Audreys. If you still have them. -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre Sent: Nov 5, 2003 2:15 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] laptops galore Come on Jay, I spent all this time getting the new classifieds app working and you don't even use it? Is that the thanks I get? On Wed, 05 Nov 2003, Jay Austad wrote: > I have 3 laptops that I would like to get rid of: > > One is a Sony slimtop, PIII 550. 10GB drive, 128 of ram. Battery > needs some replacing, and I don't have the external cdrom, so you'd > have to do a network install on it or borrow someone's external cdrom. > I think Munir has one. :) $400 firm (I could get more on ebay for it, > but I'm lazy) > > One is a Dell PII 266 I think. Don't have it in front of me, but if > you're interested, drop me a line and I'll get you more details. No > price right now until I can look at it and remember everything it has. > > The last one is a uber-sweet Toshiba Pentium 90. It's beigish/gray and > the pointer has a mind of it's own sometimes. But it plays mp3's > just fine, and makes a nice countertop web browser. $75/obo > > Just got my shiny new iBook G4, and I don't need these anymore. :) > > Oh, I also have 2 3com Audreys. $90 each. One was just taken out of > the box a couple of days ago. http://www.audreyhacking.com has some > nice info on them. > > -jay > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 6 14:14:11 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FAAAB93.8060207@visi.com> Willie Nelson (country singer http://www.willienelson.com ) said in a documentary during a Farm Aid benefit. I'm paraphrasing but the spirit of what he said is in it. "For every 5 farms that fail around a small town, 1 business closes." I'm sure everyone would take a smaller income so they could keep their jobs. Not one executive thought of that, why, because the executives have invested in the companies where the jobs are going. So it's a financial advantage for them, they care about their investments more then they do the American people. Sam. David Alitz wrote: > So, you think all of those healthcare workers and lawyers will be in > the streets and all of the good apartments will just sit empty? The > price of goods and our standard of living :( will have to adjust to > something more in line with the rest of the world. Hopefully it will > take a while to drop that far. > > This has become a bit of an obsession for me and I could spend hours > in explanation, but this is getting pretty far OT. Take a look at > www.myfootprint.org . Read "Your Money or Your Life: Transforming > Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by > Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin and "Stepping Lightly" by Mark A. > Burch. I've read dozens of books on the subject, these two sum it up > well. myfootprint.org and Stepping Lightly will give you some great > perspective and Your Money or Your Life help plan what to do about > it. Your Money or Your Life should be required reading for everyone. > > Back on-topic... It's just this re-balancing that I believe will > drive people to open-source. The small business I'm working for > couldn't possibly afford the services I've set up if I used M$ > software. I'm afraid Apple still wants too much for their hardware. > That leaves Linux and i386 class machines. :) > > Dave Alitz > >> Healthcare? Lawyers? Who can afford a doctor or lawyer when they >> don't have a job? Those jobs go away too. Service jobs go away with >> the money. If people can't afford the service, they do without. >> >> The jobs that are left usually don't pay a living wage. >> I mean, a cheap apartment in the bad part of town could be had for what? >> $400/mo? _assuming_ that your job is within walking distance (most >> aren't, that is why rent is so cheap there) $0 for car/bus, you still >> have to pay $100/mo for food, $35 for phone (a real requirement these >> days), $25/mo for electricity/heat, $30/mo for clothes (laundry still >> has to be done), >> $20/mo(average) for health care. Sitting at $610/mo. These are >> lowball numbers in general, and I know that you can cut your rent by >> having >> a live-in-thief, um I mean roommate. But even at that, you would be >> just scraping by at minimum wage. Assuming nothing bad happens. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 6 14:25:56 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) *** NOW OFF TOPIC *** In-Reply-To: <1068078597.29006.484.camel@lotsa> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA95ED1.6060105@visi.com> <1068078597.29006.484.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FAAAE54.5010806@visi.com> Forgiven and Forgotten. Tom Penney wrote: >On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 14:34, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>How dare you! How dare you even say the first part, of the first >>sentence, of the third paragraph. Saying "I don't mean this personally >>Sam". Get a clue son, you made it personal by writing that line, you >>addressed me directly. >> >> > >You are right Sam. I did make this personal and I shouldn't have. I have >obviously offended you and that was not my intent. If I try to put >myself in your place then go back and read what an I wrote I see what an >ass I was for directing my comments at you personally. I did not intend >to degrade you or the the job you did at IBM. > >My intent was to voice my opinion on this off topic subject. You often >voice your opinion on this subject on this list. Yours is an opinion >which differs greatly from mine. > > > >>You are right "Tom", I will never convince anyone, I don't want to. I >>only want to ask questions that may stimulate thought along another >>line, thats all. You on the other hand have to be correct about >>everything. By the way Tom, I would never make a comment about you or >>anyone else, like the last line of the first paragraph. Your arrogance >>is beyond comprehension, by attempting to degrade others you attempt to >>make yourself look superior. >> >> > >I'm not superior to you or anyone else. I'm not correct about >everything, although sometimes I like to think I am. My opinions are >only opinions and you are free to discount them. I read this list >because I would like to know more about linux than I do. Not to voice my >politics as I find myself doing. > > > >>Tom please find a job, doing what you do now, at $2.50 an hour. Now >>tell me, can you pay the bills you have at that rate of pay? Is that a >>living wage in this country? How many people could be paid a living >>wage with what the CEO of IBM makes? How much have these CEO's invested >>(for personal gain) in these companies in other countrys? >> >> > >The world does not owe me a living wage. I am fortunate enough to live >in a society where I can be productive enough to earn one. If I had to >feed my family on $2.50 an hour I would find a way. Millions of people >feed their families on less, they should not have to and fortunately I >do not have to. > > > >>Let the people in other countrys come up with their own jobs, let them >>work as hard as I have for as long as I have and then tell me they >>"earned" it. Don't you dare try to tell me "people in other countrys >>deserve to have MY job" because they can do it cheaper! I put in long >>hours and missed a lot of things I shouldn't have. I put myself in to >>my work, I have passion for what I do. How does the largest I/T company >>in the world reward me? I made the mistake of going to work for them, I >>learned my lesson. And now I want to make sure other people are informed. >> >> > > > > >>Tom, please go to Curly's bar in the West End of Duluth and spew you >>rhetoric. I know for sure several guys will be happy educate you on >>good and evil, right and wrong. >> >> > >I'm sure they would try. I'm sure a pro choice person would get an ear >full at a pro life rally too. I'm sure Sara Brady would be "educated" at >an NRA meeting too. But in the end the market decides where the money >goes, it always has and always will. I will try to be in the place where >the money is going. If I do go to Curly's I'll keep my mouth shut, pay >for the goods and services they have provided me along with a generous >tip, and be on my way. > >Again, Sam, I do apologize for being an ass. People with differing >opinions can get along. I hope when we meet face to face we can be >civil. > >- Tom > > > >>Sam. >> >>P.S. Tom if you ever get laid off and can't find a job, I would be >>happy to lend you the names and phone numbers of the nice people who >>have gotten me several interviews. I have not been the first choice, >>but I have always been in the running. I mean this sincerely because it >>is no fun being behind on the bills. >> >> >> >>>Tom Penney Wrote >>> >>>Absolutely! As it should be. If a job can get done for less it helps >>>everybody. It Helps IBM be competitive. It helps the consumer pay less >>>for higher quality. It helps the people overseas raise their wage closer >>>to where it should be. It helps people like Sam to move on to a >>>occupation worthy of his wage. >>> >>>Argue for unions, argue that IBM is immoral and evil for sending jobs >>>overseas all you like, I don't buy it. >>> >>>I really don't mean this personally Sam, we are sorry IBM outsourced >>>your job to another county, but the sooner you can accept that people >>>and companies will ALWAYS take the cheapest solution the happier you >>>will be. You'll never convince me or the corporate world to spend more >>>to complete a job solely because it's the right thing to do. All they >>>are doing is paying people the wage they are asking for. There is >>>nothing wrong with that. What is right for you is not necessarily right >>>for everyone. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 6 14:33:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FAAB02C.5000200@visi.com> I'm going to use the website tonight at Scout Round table. I'm going to ask everyone to come back to round table with their personal results. I'm also going to share the site with my children and with their teachers. www.myfootprint.org Sam. David Alitz wrote: > So, you think all of those healthcare workers and lawyers will be in > the streets and all of the good apartments will just sit empty? The > price of goods and our standard of living :( will have to adjust to > something more in line with the rest of the world. Hopefully it will > take a while to drop that far. > > This has become a bit of an obsession for me and I could spend hours > in explanation, but this is getting pretty far OT. Take a look at > www.myfootprint.org . Read "Your Money or Your Life: Transforming > Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by > Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin and "Stepping Lightly" by Mark A. > Burch. I've read dozens of books on the subject, these two sum it up > well. myfootprint.org and Stepping Lightly will give you some great > perspective and Your Money or Your Life help plan what to do about > it. Your Money or Your Life should be required reading for everyone. > > Back on-topic... It's just this re-balancing that I believe will > drive people to open-source. The small business I'm working for > couldn't possibly afford the services I've set up if I used M$ > software. I'm afraid Apple still wants too much for their hardware. > That leaves Linux and i386 class machines. :) > > Dave Alitz > >> Healthcare? Lawyers? Who can afford a doctor or lawyer when they >> don't have a job? Those jobs go away too. Service jobs go away with >> the money. If people can't afford the service, they do without. >> >> The jobs that are left usually don't pay a living wage. >> I mean, a cheap apartment in the bad part of town could be had for what? >> $400/mo? _assuming_ that your job is within walking distance (most >> aren't, that is why rent is so cheap there) $0 for car/bus, you still >> have to pay $100/mo for food, $35 for phone (a real requirement these >> days), $25/mo for electricity/heat, $30/mo for clothes (laundry still >> has to be done), >> $20/mo(average) for health care. Sitting at $610/mo. These are >> lowball numbers in general, and I know that you can cut your rent by >> having >> a live-in-thief, um I mean roommate. But even at that, you would be >> just scraping by at minimum wage. Assuming nothing bad happens. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 6 14:47:36 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FAAB368.6040804@visi.com> When something bad happens, surprise, that's when you're without a home. That's when you find out about soup kitchens, from the receiving side. That's when you find out who really gives a dam about you. You would be surprised how many people, who you have never met, will help you. When your at the bottom you only need to go up, but when your at the top... Give of yourself now, you may find you need less than you think. You will also find it makes you feel better about your place in the world. Sam. David Alitz wrote: > So, you think all of those healthcare workers and lawyers will be in > the streets and all of the good apartments will just sit empty? The > price of goods and our standard of living :( will have to adjust to > something more in line with the rest of the world. Hopefully it will > take a while to drop that far. > > This has become a bit of an obsession for me and I could spend hours > in explanation, but this is getting pretty far OT. Take a look at > www.myfootprint.org . Read "Your Money or Your Life: Transforming > Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by > Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin and "Stepping Lightly" by Mark A. > Burch. I've read dozens of books on the subject, these two sum it up > well. myfootprint.org and Stepping Lightly will give you some great > perspective and Your Money or Your Life help plan what to do about > it. Your Money or Your Life should be required reading for everyone. > > Back on-topic... It's just this re-balancing that I believe will > drive people to open-source. The small business I'm working for > couldn't possibly afford the services I've set up if I used M$ > software. I'm afraid Apple still wants too much for their hardware. > That leaves Linux and i386 class machines. :) > > Dave Alitz > >> Healthcare? Lawyers? Who can afford a doctor or lawyer when they >> don't have a job? Those jobs go away too. Service jobs go away with >> the money. If people can't afford the service, they do without. >> >> The jobs that are left usually don't pay a living wage. >> I mean, a cheap apartment in the bad part of town could be had for what? >> $400/mo? _assuming_ that your job is within walking distance (most >> aren't, that is why rent is so cheap there) $0 for car/bus, you still >> have to pay $100/mo for food, $35 for phone (a real requirement these >> days), $25/mo for electricity/heat, $30/mo for clothes (laundry still >> has to be done), >> $20/mo(average) for health care. Sitting at $610/mo. These are >> lowball numbers in general, and I know that you can cut your rent by >> having >> a live-in-thief, um I mean roommate. But even at that, you would be >> just scraping by at minimum wage. Assuming nothing bad happens. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Nov 6 14:48:05 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> <3FAAAB93.8060207@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FAAB385.10006@structural-wood.com> Being in the IT industry and specifically in software development, I know I've killed off a lot of jobs. We used to have two full time accountants - they've been replaced with good software and a clerical worker. We used to have a full middle management staff to generate and ride herd on our production schedules. A couple of those people moved up, most moved out. Good scheduling software kind of wiped them out. In a nutshell our business volume has more than doubled and our employee count has stayed about the same and the proportion of skilled to unskilled labor has dropped. I guess I feel hypocritical complaining now that IT workers are getting the axe due to changing capabilities and economics. My sympathies to the blacksmiths and typewriter repair people as well... I just remembered at one time I was a pretty hot shot tube TV repairman... I think I need lunch - my brain seems deprived of something necessary... So, what about that IBM and RedHat subject line, eh? Kent Sam MacDonald wrote: > Willie Nelson (country singer http://www.willienelson.com ) said in a > documentary during a Farm Aid benefit. I'm paraphrasing but the spirit > of what he said is in it. > "For every 5 farms that fail around a small town, 1 business closes." > > I'm sure everyone would take a smaller income so they could keep their > jobs. Not one executive thought of that, why, because the executives > have invested in the companies where the jobs are going. So it's a > financial advantage for them, they care about their investments more > then they do the American people. > > Sam. > > > > David Alitz wrote: > >> So, you think all of those healthcare workers and lawyers will be in >> the streets and all of the good apartments will just sit empty? The >> price of goods and our standard of living :( will have to adjust to >> something more in line with the rest of the world. Hopefully it will >> take a while to drop that far. >> >> This has become a bit of an obsession for me and I could spend hours >> in explanation, but this is getting pretty far OT. Take a look at >> www.myfootprint.org . Read "Your Money or Your Life: Transforming >> Your Relationship With Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by >> Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin and "Stepping Lightly" by Mark A. >> Burch. I've read dozens of books on the subject, these two sum it up >> well. myfootprint.org and Stepping Lightly will give you some great >> perspective and Your Money or Your Life help plan what to do about >> it. Your Money or Your Life should be required reading for everyone. >> >> Back on-topic... It's just this re-balancing that I believe will >> drive people to open-source. The small business I'm working for >> couldn't possibly afford the services I've set up if I used M$ >> software. I'm afraid Apple still wants too much for their hardware. >> That leaves Linux and i386 class machines. :) >> >> Dave Alitz >> >>> Healthcare? Lawyers? Who can afford a doctor or lawyer when they >>> don't have a job? Those jobs go away too. Service jobs go away with >>> the money. If people can't afford the service, they do without. >>> >>> The jobs that are left usually don't pay a living wage. >>> I mean, a cheap apartment in the bad part of town could be had for what? >>> $400/mo? _assuming_ that your job is within walking distance (most >>> aren't, that is why rent is so cheap there) $0 for car/bus, you still >>> have to pay $100/mo for food, $35 for phone (a real requirement these >>> days), $25/mo for electricity/heat, $30/mo for clothes (laundry still >>> has to be done), >>> $20/mo(average) for health care. Sitting at $610/mo. These are >>> lowball numbers in general, and I know that you can cut your rent by >>> having >>> a live-in-thief, um I mean roommate. But even at that, you would be >>> just scraping by at minimum wage. Assuming nothing bad happens. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Thu Nov 6 15:01:53 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FAAB6C1.30608@umn.edu> > Being in the IT industry and specifically in software development, > I know I've killed off a lot of jobs. We used to have two full time > accountants - they've been replaced with good software and a clerical > worker. > > We used to have a full middle management staff to generate and ride > herd on our production schedules. A couple of those people moved up, > most moved out. Good scheduling software kind of wiped them out. > > In a nutshell our business volume has more than doubled and our employee > count has stayed about the same and the proportion of skilled to > unskilled labor has dropped. > > I guess I feel hypocritical complaining now that IT workers are getting > the axe due to changing capabilities and economics. > > My sympathies to the blacksmiths and typewriter repair people as well... > > I just remembered at one time I was a pretty hot shot tube TV repairman... > > I think I need lunch - my brain seems deprived of something necessary... > > So, what about that IBM and RedHat subject line, eh? > Kent That's an excellent point. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Nov 6 16:16:36 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article on Newsforge... Message-ID: <3FAAC844.60105@comcast.net> Just read an interesting article on News Forge entitled "How can free software compete with commercial developers?" For those of you that don't already have it bookmarked: http://www.newsforge.com/index.pl I didn't include the article URL, because it's pretty long. The main point I liked was: For one thing, have you noticed that almost every TV station has a "news tip" phone number it runs on its news broadcast and usually has on its Web site, too? These numbers are there so people like you can call in and alert the station's news producers to interesting stories -- like a group of people who invite you to bring your computer to a meeting where they will install new software on it for free that will make it impervious to all major viruses. Perhaps we should invite one of the Twin Cities news crews to our next Install-Fest? It really wouldn't have to concentrate just on installing Operating Systems, but could also have the option for people to have other Open Source programs installed on their current Windows machines, such as Mozilla and OpenOffice. This would be really great for the Linux image if we were to have it somewhere nice. I know that I was VERY impressed with the room that was generously made available to us at the Toro headquarters. If we were to do this, we would have to make sure that all those attending were on "good" behavior. Arguing/debating is always going to be present, because of so many different opinions and personalities, but strong/vulgar language would not be acceptable. Thoughts, flames, etc?????? -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Thu Nov 6 16:49:27 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rh80 ssh login issue Message-ID: <3FAACFF7.10500@andersonfam.org> When I do a ssh login to one of my rh8.0 boxes, I get a delay of 10 seconds or so between when I send the username and when it asks for my password. Has anyone else seen this? I found some tickets at bugzilla.redhat.com which refer to a delay that some people have seen after entering their ssh password. But that doesn't apply here...my delay comes only after entering the username. Here are the versions of applicable rpms: [root@host /]$ rpm -qa | grep ssh openssh-server-3.4p1-2 openssh-askpass-3.4p1-2 openssh-clients-3.4p1-2 openssh-askpass-gnome-3.4p1-2 openssh-3.4p1-2 [root@host /]$ rpm -qa | grep ssl openssl-0.9.6b-29 mod_ssl-2.0.40-8 openssl-devel-0.9.6b-29 Any ideas? I'm plumb out! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Nov 6 17:09:06 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rh80 ssh login issue In-Reply-To: <3FAACFF7.10500@andersonfam.org> References: <3FAACFF7.10500@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031106170906.A17620@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 04:49:27PM -0600, Erik Anderson wrote: > When I do a ssh login to one of my rh8.0 boxes, I get a delay of 10 > seconds or so between when I send the username and when it asks for my > password. Has anyone else seen this? > Any ideas? I'm plumb out! My first suggestion would be to try running ssh -v when you log into one of the boxes to see if you can find out where it is spending so much time. Also, you could try running sshd -d on the server. You might find some simple misconfiguration is causing ssh to run through a bunch of steps that it shouldn't be bothering with. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 6 17:10:49 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: I need a job Message-ID: <3FAAD4F9.4010302@eworld3.net> I sort of hate to do this and I know that there is a special list for it but I suspect that those of you who can help me don't subscribe to that list since you are employed. If you think this should not have been posted then please reply to the list, otherwise please reply to me off list. Here is a little info about myself: - I have 14 years in the engineering software development industry including international experience with all levels of system and product design, evaluation, and development. - I am recognized as a dedicated and thorough professional with a commitment to quality and excellent organizational and interpersonal skills. - I have been successful managing diverse cross-functional and cross-cultural teams. My Background includes: Extensive experience leading and managing groups of 2 to 5 software engineers in software product development 5 years Linux system administration 6 years object oriented design experience in C++ & Java 9 years GUI design experience with X/Motif & Java 10 years of software application product development experience using Unix, C/C++, X/Motif, Unix Shell 14 years programming experience on various Unix systems Also, I am working on the first draft of the "official" installfest HOWTO, as announced by The Linux Documentation Project: http://www.tldp.org/ldpwn/20030826.html If you have any leads, please let me know. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 6 17:26:20 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article on Newsforge... In-Reply-To: <3FAAC844.60105@comcast.net> References: <3FAAC844.60105@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FAAD89C.9070505@visi.com> TV cameras at an install fest, Hmmmm..... On the surface it sounds good, the preparation would have to be considerable. It would all need to look very professional. No wires going all directions, a server with all the distros and floppys for that stubborn old 386 I might be getting tonight :-) Sam. Todd Young wrote: > Just read an interesting article on News Forge entitled "How can free > software compete with commercial developers?" > > For those of you that don't already have it bookmarked: > http://www.newsforge.com/index.pl > > I didn't include the article URL, because it's pretty long. The main > point I liked was: > For one thing, have you noticed that almost every TV station > has a "news tip" phone number it runs on its news broadcast and > usually has on its Web site, too? These numbers are there so people > like you can call in and alert the station's news producers to > interesting stories -- like a group of people who invite you to bring > your computer to a meeting where they will install new software on it > for free that will make it impervious to all major viruses. > > Perhaps we should invite one of the Twin Cities news crews to our next > Install-Fest? It really wouldn't have to concentrate just on > installing Operating Systems, but could also have the option for > people to have other Open Source programs installed on their current > Windows machines, such as Mozilla and OpenOffice. > > This would be really great for the Linux image if we were to have it > somewhere nice. I know that I was VERY impressed with the room that > was generously made available to us at the Toro headquarters. If we > were to do this, we would have to make sure that all those attending > were on "good" behavior. Arguing/debating is always going to be > present, because of so many different opinions and personalities, but > strong/vulgar language would not be acceptable. > > Thoughts, flames, etc?????? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Thu Nov 6 17:35:40 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rh80 ssh login issue In-Reply-To: <20031106170906.A17620@pchelka.space.umn.edu> References: <3FAACFF7.10500@andersonfam.org> <20031106170906.A17620@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3FAADACC.5000804@andersonfam.org> Jim Crumley wrote: > My first suggestion would be to try running ssh -v when you log > into one of the boxes to see if you can find out where it is > spending so much time. Thanks for the idea. Here's the result...I put in a marker where the pause occurs. __________________________________ user@host:~$ ssh -v user2@host2 OpenSSH_3.4p1 Debian 1:3.4p1-1.woody.3, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0x0090603f debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Rhosts Authentication disabled, originating port will not be trusted. debug1: ssh_connect: needpriv 0 debug1: Connecting to host2 [host2] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /home/user/.ssh/identity type -1 debug1: identity file /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug1: identity file /home/user/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 debug1: Remote protocol version 1.99, remote software version OpenSSH_3.4p1 debug1: match: OpenSSH_3.4p1 pat OpenSSH* Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_3.4p1 Debian 1:3.4p1-1.woody.3 debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP debug1: dh_gen_key: priv key bits set: 121/256 debug1: bits set: 1559/3191 debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY debug1: Host 'host2' is known and matches the RSA host key. debug1: Found key in /home/user/.ssh/known_hosts:2 debug1: bits set: 1576/3191 debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct debug1: kex_derive_keys debug1: newkeys: mode 1 debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: waiting for SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug1: newkeys: mode 0 debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: done: ssh_kex2. debug1: send SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST debug1: service_accept: ssh-userauth debug1: got SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT >>>>PAUSE debug1: authentications that can continue: publickey,password,keyboard-interactive debug1: next auth method to try is publickey debug1: try privkey: /home/user/.ssh/identity debug1: try privkey: /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa debug1: try privkey: /home/user/.ssh/id_dsa debug1: next auth method to try is keyboard-interactive debug1: authentications that can continue: publickey,password,keyboard-interactive debug1: next auth method to try is password user2@host2's password: __________________________________ Also, you could try running sshd -d on the > server. You might find some simple misconfiguration is causing > ssh to run through a bunch of steps that it shouldn't be > bothering with. I'll give that a try. Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Thu Nov 6 18:31:56 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM now 100% offtopic In-Reply-To: <3FAAB02C.5000200@visi.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> <3FAAB02C.5000200@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031107003156.GA9706@therub.org> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 02:33:48PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm going to use the website tonight at Scout Round table. > I'm going to ask everyone to come back to round table with their > personal results. > I'm also going to share the site with my children and with their teachers. > > www.myfootprint.org Sam, what is your point? Don't you see that these things manage themselves in the free market? Everything has a cost - lets talk about oil, for instance. We use the most economical thing around - right now it's oil. I'm not going to go to some alt energy until it's cheaper than oil. If oil runs out, or gets close (which it isn't), it will get more expensive. That will lead to more innovation in alternative energies. I'm going to be happy, and i REFUSE to feel bad or guilty for my lifestyle. Meat, for instance, if there is not enough, it will get more expensive. fewer people will eat it. problem solved. Now, leave me alone about it! dan > > Sam.> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Nov 6 19:24:49 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <3FAA6DFF.8030306@argle.org> References: <20031104222234.70fa5ab6.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031105060823.56c44077.sfertch@real-time.com> <3FA91F48.9040008@argle.org> <20031105183349.3754507f.sfertch@real-time.com> <3FAA6DFF.8030306@argle.org> Message-ID: <20031106192449.668c4239.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:51:27 -0600 Daniel Taylor wrote: > "Generally" is correct. IF I install a new Linux distro, I _expect_ > that I will have installed or immediately available _all_ of the > above. If I install Solaris, I expect that _some_ will be installed, > and that I will have to hack around libraries and get source to > install the rest. That, and the hacks and deviant packages will be > different if I'm using UW, Tru64, HPUX, or AIX. > FreeBSD has more in common with Linux than Solaris has with Tru64 in > my experience. > This all comes down to the various distros again, what they include on thier disks and so forth. Same with the major UNIXes, you have a lot of software packages to choose from. Neither of which will have everything you want or need immediately available. Well, except Debian. There seems to be more packages available for that than anything else, but that's a lone instance. > Because the people who are packaging the binaries are malinformed or > lazy and don't know how easy it can be to generate rpm, deb, and tgz > from the same source package. I have worked on projects packaged and > tested for multiple distro's. Apart from having a partition with the > distro installed on it to boot to for testing, it just isn't that much > extra work. I agree, but have run into some issues and have had to root thru countless pages of Googling to find out how to fix it so it will run. > I do not consider linuxconf/kudzu/kcontrol/etc. to be _core_ admin > tools. They are nice for those who want to use them. > Yes, vi/emacs on text files, m4, awk, perl, and the basic sysinfo > command line tools are what I consider "core admin tools" everything > else is built up from them. > Most of this is considered utilities/applications that are aside from the base kernel. I can choose not to install tar, perl, lsof, compilers, emacs, vim, etc. Although, I will admit they they definately make life easier than without them > Exactly. This is why I do not consider most of the GUI helper tools > to be "core admin tools". A decent admin _should_ be able to check > the system out pretty thouroghly over a terminal without having to > resort to GUI tools. Yes, the GUI tools make life easier, but they > aren't standard enough yet and most of the ones I've seen take an > information hiding approach that makes it harder for an inexperienced > admin to become an experienced admin. > Exactly. Overall we agree more than disagree, I think. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Nov 6 20:09:50 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> References: <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031107020950.GI3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Thu Nov 6 20:29:07 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] input... In-Reply-To: <20031106192449.668c4239.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Shawn wrote: > Exactly. Overall we agree more than disagree, I think. > Of course, if we didn't it wouldn't be any fun arguing with each other, would it? Well, maybe it would. So verdict: All Unix+Linux is the same except where it is different. The differences that matter depend on what you are doing. -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Nov 6 23:11:43 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <003201c3a2e1$077734e0$0300000a@net.tsinks> <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> Message-ID: <200311062311.43324@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Tuesday 04 November 2003 02:20 pm, nate@refried.org wrote: > It gets more interesting now that Novell is in the process of buying > SuSE. Novell still has a lot of money and it doesn't appear that they > are bleeding cash. Will IBM continue paying for SuSE's development > costs? Can Novell make SuSE profitable in their own right? Almost makes we want to try SuSE :-) I'm interested in seeing if they come out with a desktop-oriented linux. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Wed Nov 5 10:08:03 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8B8@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Maybe Novell is acquiring SuSE so that they can have a US Linux distributor when it comes time for everyone to sue SCO. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Ware [mailto:rware@interplastic.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:51 AM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:44 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > > > A General Pot Stir. > > Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit > about SuSe, > could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO > has a case > against IBM/RedHat? > > Why does the Linux community only bash MS? > Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the > same bashing? > Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? > Who owned PowerPoint before MS? > Who owned Excel before MS? I'd add one more. If, as is the prevailing thought in the Linux community, that SCO's suit is unfounded and just waiting to be thrown out, WHY doesn't IBM step up to the plate and do the same thing MS did recently and say it will hold harmless any customers from patent issues? The longer this drags out the more it hurts Linux in the enterprise. Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Thu Nov 6 23:22:05 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> References: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> Message-ID: <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Wednesday 05 November 2003 05:08 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > This question is probably a question for Bob Tanner et. al. What is the > status of Fedora? Do you expect the mirror of Fedora Core 1 to be up > tomorrow? The mirror is way overloaded, I think RH cut bandwidth when they dropped their free distro. Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( If anyone is able to torrent the iso and drop them off, that would rock. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jim.Behm at state.mn.us Tue Nov 4 09:00:57 2003 From: Jim.Behm at state.mn.us (Jim Behm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:03 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14 Message-ID: I will be out of the office until November 6th. If this is urgent please contact Matt Comstock at 215-0244 or david Cera at 215-0240. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 7 01:05:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8B8@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8B8@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <3FAB443B.2090203@visi.com> I like that one! Neigebauer, Ben wrote: >Maybe Novell is acquiring SuSE so that they can have a US Linux >distributor when it comes time for everyone to sue SCO. > > >Benjamin E. Neigebauer >Software Engineer >Compellent Technologies >Eden Prairie, MN 55344 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ryan Ware [mailto:rware@interplastic.com] >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:51 AM >To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:44 AM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) >> >> >>A General Pot Stir. >> >>Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit >>about SuSe, >>could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO >>has a case >>against IBM/RedHat? >> >>Why does the Linux community only bash MS? >>Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the >>same bashing? >>Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? >> Who owned PowerPoint before MS? >> Who owned Excel before MS? >> >> > >I'd add one more. If, as is the prevailing thought in the Linux >community, >that SCO's suit is unfounded and just waiting to be thrown out, WHY >doesn't >IBM step up to the plate and do the same thing MS did recently and say >it >will hold harmless any customers from patent issues? The longer this >drags >out the more it hurts Linux in the enterprise. > >Ryan > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003 > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Fri Nov 7 06:43:27 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B321@ipserver2.interplastic.com> This might shed some light. Think back on how Novell still owns some rights to Unix http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/novell_suse.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:06 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > > > I like that one! > > > Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > > >Maybe Novell is acquiring SuSE so that they can have a US Linux > >distributor when it comes time for everyone to sue SCO. > > > > > >Benjamin E. Neigebauer > >Software Engineer > >Compellent Technologies > >Eden Prairie, MN 55344 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Ryan Ware [mailto:rware@interplastic.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:51 AM > >To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > >>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:44 AM > >>To: TCLUG Mailing List > >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) > >> > >> > >>A General Pot Stir. > >> > >>Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit > >>about SuSe, > >>could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO > >>has a case > >>against IBM/RedHat? > >> > >>Why does the Linux community only bash MS? > >>Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the > >>same bashing? > >>Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? > >> Who owned PowerPoint before MS? > >> Who owned Excel before MS? > >> > >> > > > >I'd add one more. If, as is the prevailing thought in the Linux > >community, > >that SCO's suit is unfounded and just waiting to be thrown out, WHY > >doesn't > >IBM step up to the plate and do the same thing MS did > recently and say > >it > >will hold harmless any customers from patent issues? The longer this > >drags > >out the more it hurts Linux in the enterprise. > > > >Ryan > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Nov 7 06:58:36 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rh80 ssh login issue References: <3FAACFF7.10500@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <3FAB96FC.7020302@structural-wood.com> Erik Anderson wrote: > When I do a ssh login to one of my rh8.0 boxes, I get a delay of 10 > seconds or so between when I send the username and when it asks for my > password. Has anyone else seen this? > > I found some tickets at bugzilla.redhat.com which refer to a delay that > some people have seen after entering their ssh password. But that > doesn't apply here...my delay comes only after entering the username. > > Here are the versions of applicable rpms: > > [root@host /]$ rpm -qa | grep ssh > openssh-server-3.4p1-2 > openssh-askpass-3.4p1-2 > openssh-clients-3.4p1-2 > openssh-askpass-gnome-3.4p1-2 > openssh-3.4p1-2 > > [root@host /]$ rpm -qa | grep ssl > openssl-0.9.6b-29 > mod_ssl-2.0.40-8 > openssl-devel-0.9.6b-29 > > Any ideas? I'm plumb out! > > -Erik try a -4 argument (ssh -4 whitehouse.gov) and see if that makes the connection faster. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Nov 7 08:15:15 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article on Newsforge... Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D3799@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I think the idea has potential...not sure that the news would be interested....not sure if it would work, but it cant hurt. As they say, no pr is bad pr Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Todd Young Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:17 PM To: TCLUG-list Subject: [TCLUG] Interesting article on Newsforge... Perhaps we should invite one of the Twin Cities news crews to our next Install-Fest? It really wouldn't have to concentrate just on installing Operating Systems, but could also have the option for people to have other Open Source programs installed on their current Windows machines, such as Mozilla and OpenOffice. This would be really great for the Linux image if we were to have it somewhere nice. I know that I was VERY impressed with the room that was generously made available to us at the Toro headquarters. If we were to do this, we would have to make sure that all those attending were on "good" behavior. Arguing/debating is always going to be present, because of so many different opinions and personalities, but strong/vulgar language would not be acceptable. Thoughts, flames, etc?????? -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Fri Nov 7 08:43:21 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FABAF89.3090308@druswanderings.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > On Wednesday 05 November 2003 05:08 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > >>This question is probably a question for Bob Tanner et. al. What is the >>status of Fedora? Do you expect the mirror of Fedora Core 1 to be up >>tomorrow? > > > The mirror is way overloaded, I think RH cut bandwidth when they dropped their > free distro. > > Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( > > If anyone is able to torrent the iso and drop them off, that would rock. > My torrent finished up last night but I wouldn't be able to drop them off 'til Monday. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bgilbertson at stonel.com Fri Nov 7 08:51:46 2003 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B321@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B321@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <3FABB182.2040103@stonel.com> Even more interesting, especially concerning IBM, since SuSE has an agreement with SCO already. http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/os/story/0,2000048630,20274208,00.htm Bob Ryan Ware wrote: > This might shed some light. Think back on how Novell still owns some rights > to Unix > > http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/novell_suse.html > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] >>Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:06 AM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) >> >> >>I like that one! >> >> >>Neigebauer, Ben wrote: >> >> >>>Maybe Novell is acquiring SuSE so that they can have a US Linux >>>distributor when it comes time for everyone to sue SCO. >>> >>> >>>Benjamin E. Neigebauer >>>Software Engineer >>>Compellent Technologies >>>Eden Prairie, MN 55344 >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Ryan Ware [mailto:rware@interplastic.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:51 AM >>>To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' >>>Subject: RE: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:44 AM >>>>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>>>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) >>>> >>>> >>>>A General Pot Stir. >>>> >>>>Where is SCO in all of this? Why are they not having a fit >>>>about SuSe, >>>>could it be SCO can't do anything about SuSe? Could it be SCO >>>>has a case >>>>against IBM/RedHat? >>>> >>>>Why does the Linux community only bash MS? >>>>Why are IBM, Novel, and other large companies immune to the >>>>same bashing? >>>>Doesn't MS buy up the competition as well? >>>> Who owned PowerPoint before MS? >>>> Who owned Excel before MS? >>>> >>>> >>> >>>I'd add one more. If, as is the prevailing thought in the Linux >>>community, >>>that SCO's suit is unfounded and just waiting to be thrown out, WHY >>>doesn't >>>IBM step up to the plate and do the same thing MS did >> >>recently and say >> >>>it >>>will hold harmless any customers from patent issues? The longer this >>>drags >>>out the more it hurts Linux in the enterprise. >>> >>>Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Nov 7 09:42:58 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <3FABAF89.3090308@druswanderings.net> References: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FABAF89.3090308@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <12885.67.107.38.35.1068219778.squirrel@dccmn.com> My torrent is still at 152 hours... And I've been torrenting for 2 days! The Wandering Dru said: > Bob Tanner wrote: >> On Wednesday 05 November 2003 05:08 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: >> >>>This question is probably a question for Bob Tanner et. al. What is >>> the status of Fedora? Do you expect the mirror of Fedora Core 1 to be >>> up tomorrow? >> >> >> The mirror is way overloaded, I think RH cut bandwidth when they >> dropped their free distro. >> >> Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( >> >> If anyone is able to torrent the iso and drop them off, that would >> rock. >> > > My torrent finished up last night but I wouldn't be able to drop them > off 'til Monday. > > -- > The Wandering Dru > http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such > > Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! > http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Fri Nov 7 10:15:21 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <12885.67.107.38.35.1068219778.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FABAF89.3090308@druswanderings.net> <12885.67.107.38.35.1068219778.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <3FABC519.3060609@druswanderings.net> Wayne Johnson wrote: > My torrent is still at 152 hours... And I've been torrenting for 2 days! > Ouch! Unless you are on a dialup, sumthin' ain't right. My download speed never maxed out(when I was watching, it stayed at about half) but it still only took about 12 hours. This is with a 1Mb down. You should limit the upload rate to about 80% of your maximum. The 350 the fedora website tells you is *WAY* too fast for most connections. My upload is 128kb/s so I limit mine to 11-13kB/s. Also, if you are behind a firewall, make sure you are forwarding the necessary ports. It's a kind of blancing act 'cause your download speed is directly related to the upload speed but if you max out the upload it can choke off the download as well. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Nov 7 10:20:25 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031107162024.GS753@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 11:22:05PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > The mirror is way overloaded, I think RH cut bandwidth when they dropped their > free distro. > > Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( > > If anyone is able to torrent the iso and drop them off, that would rock. I got it at around 800KB/s via bittorrent =P -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Nov 7 10:22:18 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] The Grinch who stole Linux Message-ID: <20031107162218.GA27734@mail.el-swifto.com> SCO had been caught by this little GNU daughter who'd got out of bed for a cup of cold water. She stared at SCO and said, "SCO, why, "Why are you taking our free Linux? WHY?" http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031106164630915 -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Fri Nov 7 10:45:38 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:04 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <3FABC519.3060609@druswanderings.net> References: <3FA982D0.1010604@charter.net> <200311062322.05797@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FABAF89.3090308@druswanderings.net> <12885.67.107.38.35.1068219778.squirrel@dccmn.com> <3FABC519.3060609@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <20195.67.107.38.35.1068223538.squirrel@dccmn.com> Hmmm. I'm running DSL. I've only been getting 0-8Kb. I was doing both the src and bin CDs at once, but dropped the src when my kids were complaining about response time. I did restart it a few times. How do you overide the bitTorrent limits. I just click on the URL... The Wandering Dru said: > Wayne Johnson wrote: > >> My torrent is still at 152 hours... And I've been torrenting for 2 >> days! >> > > Ouch! Unless you are on a dialup, sumthin' ain't right. My download > speed never maxed out(when I was watching, it stayed at about half) but > it still only took about 12 hours. This is with a 1Mb down. > > You should limit the upload rate to about 80% of your maximum. The 350 > the fedora website tells you is *WAY* too fast for most connections. My > upload is 128kb/s so I limit mine to 11-13kB/s. Also, if you are > behind a firewall, make sure you are forwarding the necessary ports. > > It's a kind of blancing act 'cause your download speed is directly > related to the upload speed but if you max out the upload it can choke > off the download as well. > > -- > The Wandering Dru > http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such > > Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! > http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Fri Nov 7 14:08:01 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] rh80 ssh login issue In-Reply-To: <3FAB96FC.7020302@structural-wood.com> References: <3FAACFF7.10500@andersonfam.org> <3FAB96FC.7020302@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031107200801.GA1955@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 06:58:36AM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > > Erik Anderson wrote: > >When I do a ssh login to one of my rh8.0 boxes, I get a delay of 10 > >seconds or so between when I send the username and when it asks for my > >password. Has anyone else seen this? > > > >-Erik > > try a -4 argument (ssh -4 whitehouse.gov) and see if that makes > the connection faster. > That's brilliant. I just tried it at work and it sped up the connection time from 10 seconds to about 1 second. -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Fri Nov 7 15:01:42 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Message-ID: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> I am a guy who lives in a tar-paper shack. I live off of what I grow in the garden. I do have running water and electric but most of my power comes from my solar and wind generators. I could never eat meat, it would make me hurl. I compost 100% of my waste and feed it to my garden. I never leave my properly aside from an occasional bike ride. One day I bike over to the public library and after a brief confrontation about having to wear shoes in the library (leather is bad, plastic is worse), I use a library computer to go to http://www.myfootprint.org and take the Ecological Footprint Quiz. If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Nov 7 17:02:38 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start > killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. CATEGORY ACRES FOOD 5.2 MOBILITY 1.2 SHELTER 4 GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. And they wonder why people think they're zealots. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Fri Nov 7 17:54:17 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Message-ID: I do my part, I eat hippies. Decreasing the ecological footprint of America..one hippie at a time! ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Matthew S. Hallacy Sent: Fri 11/7/2003 5:02 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start > killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. CATEGORY ACRES FOOD 5.2 MOBILITY 1.2 SHELTER 4 GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. And they wonder why people think they're zealots. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20031107/05c11b91/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Fri Nov 7 18:26:33 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Sk3tch wrote: > I do my part, I eat hippies. Decreasing the ecological footprint of America..one hippie at a time! > Hey, we don't serve hippies here! -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Fri Nov 7 21:07:01 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > > > If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start > > killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. > > > CATEGORY ACRES > FOOD 5.2 > MOBILITY 1.2 > SHELTER 4 > GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 > TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 > > > > IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. > WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. > > IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. > > > And they wonder why people think they're zealots. Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.alitz at earthlink.net Fri Nov 7 21:55:59 2003 From: david.alitz at earthlink.net (Dave Alitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FAC694F.5030102@earthlink.net> A short time ago you were noting that people were complaining about package dependency problems without providing concrete evidence. myfootprint.org provides some information on their site on how they derive their figures. I could see challenging there data based on conflicting data, but it appears that your labelling them zealots simply because your using more than your fair share of resources (according to them). If anyone has any data/reports with rosier conclusions I'd be really interested in knowing about it -- off list if you please. Dave Alitz (P.S. 15 is one of the best scores I've seen.) Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > >>If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start >>killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. >> >> > > > CATEGORY ACRES > FOOD 5.2 > MOBILITY 1.2 > SHELTER 4 > GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 > TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 > > > > IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. >WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. > >IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. > > >And they wonder why people think they're zealots. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Fri Nov 7 22:18:54 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > > > > > If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start > > > killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. > > > > > > CATEGORY ACRES > > FOOD 5.2 > > MOBILITY 1.2 > > SHELTER 4 > > GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 > > TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 > > > > > > > > IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. > > WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. > > > > IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. > > > > > > And they wonder why people think they're zealots. > > Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? > > Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, > even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? > What do they base it on? I spent about an hour browsing about their site trying to find out to no good effect. They are also _obviously_ mixing "arable land" resources (food) with industrial resources, not revealing the way they are doing it, and then providing a lie based on "arable land". What about fisheries? Tree farms (often on non-farmable land)? Mines and wells? Greenhouses? -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Fri Nov 7 22:33:35 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need help installing GD.pm Message-ID: <003301c3a5b1$793dbef0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> I am getting the following error when launching an image upload script that needs GD.pm. (Can't locate GD.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi ) I am trying to install GD.pm 1-8.4 on my redhat 9.0 server. I am a real novice with some of this stuff, but I am guessing it has to do with the Makefile not having the proper paths, etc.. Could use some advice on installing this properly and testing the install. Thanks Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Fri Nov 7 23:09:35 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B32E@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Fortunately,not everyone on the planet is like the person in the calculation. We have the third worlders that if everyone were like them we'd need a planet the size of Rhode Island. So, it all balances out. Plus do we really know the basis of the calculation. Could have been too many buds in the membrain. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew S. Hallacy To: TCLUG Mailing List Sent: 11/7/03 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start > killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. CATEGORY ACRES FOOD 5.2 MOBILITY 1.2 SHELTER 4 GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. And they wonder why people think they're zealots. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Fri Nov 7 23:47:45 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <200311062311.43324@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <33171.192.168.70.43.1067918315.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <20031104202045.GA11930@refried.org> <200311062311.43324@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <200311072347.45353.jack@jacku.com> On Thursday 06 November 2003 11:11 pm, Bob Tanner wrote: > On Tuesday 04 November 2003 02:20 pm, nate@refried.org wrote: > > It gets more interesting now that Novell is in the process of buying > > SuSE. Novell still has a lot of money and it doesn't appear that they > > are bleeding cash. Will IBM continue paying for SuSE's development > > costs? Can Novell make SuSE profitable in their own right? > > Almost makes we want to try SuSE :-) > > I'm interested in seeing if they come out with a desktop-oriented linux. Um... they did its called SuSE 8.2 (scurries to a web browser...which has recently been superceded by SuSE 9.0) With 8.2 they made the move to make the Personnel($40 Blue box) and Professional($80 Green box) box sets gear more towards home users. I don't know about you but that suggests a desktop distribution. The difference in price is the types of packages that come on the CD/DVD set. For business desktops they have the SuSE Linux Desktop. The business oriented product will change on a slower lifecycle than the home product. (Approx. 1 version per year instead of 2) They also have version under the Home User category on their site called the SuSE Office Desktop. I think its the Pro version with Crossover Office, but I'm not sure. I don't know if 9.0 is on the shelves but there is always the live eval CD-ROM if you just want to try it. You never know you might find you like it. ;-) I tend to by a new box set every other release. I could download the upgrade but choose not to. My reason is simple, I want to keep SuSE available in my local retail establishment , be it CompUSA, Best Buy, or MicroCenter. I figure the best way to do this is to vote with my hard earned cash. It may not keep the product on the shelf, but I have to think it helps. -- Jack Ungerleider - local SuSE bigot jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Nov 7 23:55:01 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031108055501.GU753@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:07:01PM -0600, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? > > Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, > even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? The fact that I live in an apartment complex, don't fly much at all (5 hours in the past 3 years), I consume products that were mass produced, as opposed to something that took up land in a back yard, etc. I'm not saying I'm the epitome of 'green' living, but I'm certainly in the far low-end for consumption and waste, yet it still seems to think I'm a wasteful person. Perhaps we should all live in the forest and eat grub worms. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Sat Nov 8 01:59:57 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031108055501.GU753@techmonkeys.org> References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> <20031108055501.GU753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <8B636CDB-11C1-11D8-B0BC-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> I got 53 acres. We need 11.4 more planets. We're all doomed because I drive too much and eat cows. At least they are yummy. :) Just for fun, I put in the "best" answers for every question, including 7 people in a 500 sq ft "green" residence. This is obviously wildly unrealistic, although I'm sure it happens, not frequently though. Anyway, I still got 2 acres. I don't know where they get their numbers from, but they are missing something. Almost everyone in the world eats animal products and takes up more space, and yet we're still able to sustain ourselves. Are they counting the ocean as a potential source of food? I don't think so. Maybe we don't rely on seafood and ocean derived products so much here in the US, but in many asian and scandinavian countries, they rely heavily on it. On Nov 7, 2003, at 11:55 PM, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:07:01PM -0600, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: >> Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? >> >> Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, >> even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? > > The fact that I live in an apartment complex, don't fly much at all (5 > hours in the past 3 years), I consume products that were mass produced, > as opposed to something that took up land in a back yard, etc. > > I'm not saying I'm the epitome of 'green' living, but I'm certainly in > the > far low-end for consumption and waste, yet it still seems to think I'm > a wasteful person. > > Perhaps we should all live in the forest and eat grub worms. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH > Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key > 0x01938203 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com Sat Nov 8 04:31:01 2003 From: PaulHarris at Bigfoot.com (Paul Harris) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:05 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Message-ID: <20031108023102.22933.h003.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Interestingly (to me), if I just moved back to the UK I'd save almost a whole planet (here I use 4.1, in England 3.2) with exactly the same answers. And if I adjust the answers to how I'd actually live in the UK it goes down to 2.7 But please don't all move over there to save the earth - it's a little crowded as it is. Cheers, Paul _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Sat Nov 8 06:45:28 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need help installing GD.pm In-Reply-To: <003301c3a5b1$793dbef0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <003301c3a5b1$793dbef0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <3FACE568.1040207@lorenburlingame.com> Raymond Norton wrote: > I am getting the following error when launching an image upload script that > needs GD.pm. > > (Can't locate GD.pm in @INC (@INC contains: > /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi ) > > I am trying to install GD.pm 1-8.4 on my redhat 9.0 server. > > I am a real novice with some of this stuff, but I am guessing it has to do > with the Makefile not having the proper paths, etc.. > > Could use some advice on installing this properly and testing the install. > > an easy way to install Perl modules is by using the perl shell ~$perl -MCPAN -e shell once you are in the shell (first time you start it up you need to answer some simple questions) you can do: >install GD and you should be good to go LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sat Nov 8 07:39:02 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: need help installing GD.pm References: Message-ID: <000b01c3a5fd$af52e460$0a00a8c0@DELL2> > an easy way to install Perl modules is by using the perl shell > > ~$perl -MCPAN -e shell > > once you are in the shell (first time you start it up you need to answer > some simple questions) you can do: > > >install GD > > and you should be good to go > > LB Not sure which part of the following error is important, so here it all is. Warning: prerequisite Math::Trig 0 not found. Writing Makefile for GD cp GD/Polyline.pm blib/lib/GD/Polyline.pm cp qd.pl blib/lib/qd.pl cp GD.pm blib/lib/GD.pm AutoSplitting blib/lib/GD.pm (blib/lib/auto/GD) /usr/bin/perl /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/ExtUtils/xsubpp -typemap /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/ExtUtils/typemap -typemap typemap GD.xs > GD.xsc && mv GD.xsc GD.c gcc -c -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/gd -D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOUR CE -fno-strict-aliasing -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -I/usr/in clude/gdbm -O2 -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -DVERSION=\"2.11\" -DXS_VERSION=\"2.11 \" -fpic "-I/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/CORE" -DHAVE_JPEG -DHAVE_FT -DHAVE_XPM GD.c cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/local/include" cc1: warning: as it has already been specified as a non-system directory GD.xs: In function `newDynamicCtx': GD.xs:430: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `gd_cloneDim': GD.xs:450: structure has no member named `alpha' GD.xs:450: structure has no member named `alpha' GD.xs:456: structure has no member named `thick' GD.xs:456: structure has no member named `thick' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromPngData': GD.xs:584: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromGdData': GD.xs:603: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromGd2Data': GD.xs:620: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromJpegData': GD.xs:640: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromWBMPData': GD.xs:665: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyRotate90': GD.xs:1026: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1026: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyRotate180': GD.xs:1047: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1047: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyRotate270': GD.xs:1068: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1068: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyFlipHorizontal': GD.xs:1089: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1089: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyFlipVertical': GD.xs:1110: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1110: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyTranspose': GD.xs:1131: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1131: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyReverseTranspose': GD.xs:1152: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1152: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_rotate180': GD.xs:1172: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1172: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1173: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1173: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_flipHorizontal': GD.xs:1190: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1190: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1191: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1191: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_flipVertical': GD.xs:1208: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1208: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1209: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1209: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_stringFT': GD.xs:1858: `gdFTStringExtra' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1858: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once GD.xs:1858: for each function it appears in.) GD.xs:1858: parse error before "strex" GD.xs:1877: `strex' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1881: `gdFTEX_LINESPACE' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1885: `gdFTEX_CHARMAP' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1887: `gdFTEX_Unicode' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1889: `gdFTEX_Shift_JIS' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1891: `gdFTEX_Big5' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1895: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast make: *** [GD.o] Error 1 /usr/bin/make -- NOT OK Running make test Can't test without successful make Running make install make had returned bad status, install seems impossible _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Sat Nov 8 13:05:45 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031108055501.GU753@techmonkeys.org> References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> <20031108055501.GU753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:07:01PM -0600, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? > > > > Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, > > even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? > > The fact that I live in an apartment complex, don't fly much at all (5 > hours in the past 3 years), I consume products that were mass produced, > as opposed to something that took up land in a back yard, etc. > > I'm not saying I'm the epitome of 'green' living, but I'm certainly in the > far low-end for consumption and waste, yet it still seems to think I'm > a wasteful person. You live in the richest country of the world with the most resource-intensive lifestyles in the world. Is this really news to you? You shouldn't be surprised that a relatively modest American lifestyle is still pretty resource-intensive by world standards. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Sat Nov 8 13:04:12 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Daniel Taylor writes: > On 7 Nov 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > > > "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > > > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:01:42PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > > > > > > > If everyone were like me the planet is STILL DOOMED! We better start > > > > killing off a whole bunch of people if we are going to save this planet. > > > > > > > > > CATEGORY ACRES > > > FOOD 5.2 > > > MOBILITY 1.2 > > > SHELTER 4 > > > GOODS/SERVICES 4.7 > > > TOTAL FOOTPRINT 15 > > > > > > > > > > > > IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON. > > > WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON. > > > > > > IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 3.4 PLANETS. > > > > > > > > > And they wonder why people think they're zealots. > > > > Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? > > > > Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, > > even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? > > > What do they base it on? > > I spent about an hour browsing about their site trying > to find out to no good effect. > > They are also _obviously_ mixing "arable land" resources (food) > with industrial resources, not revealing the way they are doing > it, and then providing a lie based on "arable land". > > What about fisheries? Tree farms (often on non-farmable land)? > Mines and wells? Greenhouses? Perhaps those aren't the limiting factors? -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gfischer at visi.com Sat Nov 8 13:32:16 2003 From: gfischer at visi.com (George Fischer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I'm thinking of buying a new desktop machine In-Reply-To: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> (George Fischer's message of "Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:49:08 -0600") References: <8765hyjusb.fsf@visi.com> Message-ID: <87oevmbqrj.fsf@visi.com> Thanks for all the suggestions. I know that it is possible to buy all my own parts and build one myself; I just don't know enough to do that. I can install a hard drive or CDRW, but I don't know how to choose a motherboard, or why you would want a separate controller for each device. That's why ibuypower.com looks good to me - I can just pick and choose from options and have a reasonable expectation that they won't send me a machine that has conflicting components. So General Nanosystems seems pretty ideal - I can see the stuff that they offer on their website, and I can go down the street and visit them in person. Plus supporting a local business. That's what I'll do then. From: Erik Anderson > Have you checked out General Nanosystems? They're local (University > Ave), and will build you a custom computer with no OS... > > http://www.nanosys1.com/ > > -Erik > From: "K B" > I actually built my own- all works, no problems. Cost me about $1,000...til I added dual LCDs :) > > This was six months ago, so prices have come down some: > > (Amounts are off the top of my head, might be slightly different) > Athlon XP 2600+ (Retail) $105 > Asus A7N8X Deluxe $125 > 512MB DDR 2700 Kingston HyperX (CL2) $74 > (3) 120GB WD Special Edition (8MB Cache) $100/ea > DVD-ROM $10 (Office Max rebate) > CD-RW $0 (Rebates, can't remember which one, have spares) > GeForce 4 Ti4200 128MB $90 (Best Buy, 'Day after Thanksgiving Sale' 2002) > (2) Promise ATA/133 Controller cards (so every device on own controller) $35/ea > (2) 17" CRTs $90 ea (new, rebates from Best Buy from 1-2 years ago, sitting unopened, decided to use) > Modem $100 Linux compatible- picked up from CompUSA (can't think of brand right now...name brand though...good one) worked out of box with RH 9 and Mandrake 9.1 (2.4 kernel, I believe, box said 2.2) > Antec Case (Think old Alienware) $66+shipping > 550 Watt Antec PS $118 + shipping > > Most parts ordered from Newegg, unless otherwise stated > > More questions? Fire away. > From: "Lansing, Dan" > I will have to second...third whatever the vote for general nanosystems... > I recently had to build a new system due to a lightning strike and they were very helpful tested the cpu mobo and ram there in shop and my system is running incredibly smooth with beautiful beautiful slackware.... > > Dan Lansing > ITSC > George Fischer writes: > Anybody had any experience with www.ibuypower.com? Any recommendations > for where to buy a machine with no operating system installed? > -- > George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- George Fischer - gfischer@visi.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Sat Nov 8 17:48:05 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> <20031108055501.GU753@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3FAD80B5.5040908@visi.com> I think you're missing the point. It claims that those of us with fairly resource sparing lifestyles are still well above the average 'for your country' So if my 1,200 sqft townhouse (with all new Energy*Star hardware), 100 miles a week in a Honda Civic and 10 hours a year on a plane puts me 50% above the US national average, I don't think its unreasonable to question the calculations involved. I've spent my life working with numbers, and I'm sickened by the bombardment of junk numbers from activist groups. I don't care if its Exxon or Greenpeace, until they provide their numbers, equations and properly source both, I simply refuse to care. For example, one of the primary papers behind the Kyoto Treaty was recently shown to have all sorts of rookie data errors, and some curious decisions in carrying out the calculations. These errors aren't an issue of interpretation, they were things like putting the right number in the wrong column, mislabeling data series, using incomplete or extrapolated data, etc. - pretty basic stuff. Now if the myfootprint.org want to open up their source code and research so we can all see where the calculations are coming, and that they have been correctly implemented, I might be willing to take them a bit more seriously. --rick David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > > >>On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:07:01PM -0600, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: >> >>>Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? >>> >>>Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, >>>even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? >> >>The fact that I live in an apartment complex, don't fly much at all (5 >>hours in the past 3 years), I consume products that were mass produced, >>as opposed to something that took up land in a back yard, etc. >> >>I'm not saying I'm the epitome of 'green' living, but I'm certainly in the >>far low-end for consumption and waste, yet it still seems to think I'm >>a wasteful person. > > > You live in the richest country of the world with the most > resource-intensive lifestyles in the world. Is this really news to > you? You shouldn't be surprised that a relatively modest American > lifestyle is still pretty resource-intensive by world standards. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rummey at black-hole.com Sat Nov 8 18:15:32 2003 From: rummey at black-hole.com (Michael D. Cassano) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Actiontec blocking single remote computer Message-ID: <001101c3a656$96dfbf30$6401a8c0@rummey> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sat Nov 8 19:43:25 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: need help installing GD.pm References: Message-ID: <000f01c3a662$de0a7920$0a00a8c0@DELL2> It seems the original error cam from not having Math Trig installed. I upgraded perl as per the istructions which includes Math Trig. I am still getting the following string of errors. Any ideas? If you experience compile problems, please check the @INC, @LIBPATH and @LIBS arrays defined in Makefile.PL and manually adjust, if necessary. Checking if your kit is complete... Looks good Writing Makefile for GD cp GD/Polyline.pm blib/lib/GD/Polyline.pm cp qd.pl blib/lib/qd.pl cp GD.pm blib/lib/GD.pm AutoSplitting blib/lib/GD.pm (blib/lib/auto/GD) /usr/local/bin/perl /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/ExtUtils/xsubpp -typemap /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/ExtUtils/typemap -typemap typemap GD.xs > GD.xsc && mv GD.xsc GD.c cc -c -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/gd -fno-strict-aliasing -D_L ARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -I/usr/include/gdbm -O3 -DVERSION=\"2 .11\" -DXS_VERSION=\"2.11\" -fpic "-I/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.8.2/i686-linux/CORE" -DHAVE_JPEG GD.c cc1: warning: changing search order for system directory "/usr/local/include" cc1: warning: as it has already been specified as a non-system directory GD.xs: In function `newDynamicCtx': GD.xs:430: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `gd_cloneDim': GD.xs:450: structure has no member named `alpha' GD.xs:450: structure has no member named `alpha' GD.xs:456: structure has no member named `thick' GD.xs:456: structure has no member named `thick' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromPngData': GD.xs:584: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromGdData': GD.xs:603: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromGd2Data': GD.xs:620: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromJpegData': GD.xs:640: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_newFromWBMPData': GD.xs:665: structure has no member named `gd_free' GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyRotate90': GD.xs:1026: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1026: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyRotate180': GD.xs:1047: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1047: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyRotate270': GD.xs:1068: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1068: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyFlipHorizontal': GD.xs:1089: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1089: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyFlipVertical': GD.xs:1110: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1110: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyTranspose': GD.xs:1131: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1131: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_copyReverseTranspose': GD.xs:1152: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1152: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_rotate180': GD.xs:1172: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1172: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1173: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1173: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_flipHorizontal': GD.xs:1190: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1190: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1191: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1191: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_flipVertical': GD.xs:1208: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1208: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1209: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs:1209: invalid lvalue in assignment GD.xs: In function `XS_GD__Image_stringFT': GD.xs:1858: `gdFTStringExtra' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1858: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once GD.xs:1858: for each function it appears in.) GD.xs:1858: parse error before "strex" GD.xs:1877: `strex' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1881: `gdFTEX_LINESPACE' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1885: `gdFTEX_CHARMAP' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1887: `gdFTEX_Unicode' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1889: `gdFTEX_Shift_JIS' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1891: `gdFTEX_Big5' undeclared (first use in this function) GD.xs:1895: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast make: *** [GD.o] Error 1 /usr/bin/make -- NOT OK Running make test Can't test without successful make Running make install make had returned bad status, install seems impossible _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sat Nov 8 21:31:42 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <001101c3a656$96dfbf30$6401a8c0@rummey> References: <001101c3a656$96dfbf30$6401a8c0@rummey> Message-ID: <20031108211806.C1121@unix18.sihope.com> Neat! Sounds like an issue with the NAT code in the ActionTec. We've never run into this, but it sounds intriguing. I'm not very familiar with the ActionTec internals, so I"m not sure this is possible, but can you get the routing table and dynamic NAT table when the problem is occuring? The cisco equivalents would be show ip route and show nat. Just to be sure and eliminate the ActionTec as the problem, can you tcpdump from both your machine and the colo box and confirm that traffic is leaving your network and the colo box is NOT getting it? If it does turn out to be the crAptionTec, you might want to just pick up a 678 off of Ebay and save yourself a lot of hassle. AT tech support is alright (when you have the ISP on the phone, and have already done the troubleshooting). But we've seen soem problems with the code in the past, and they really don't appear to be "the shite" that Qwest makes them out to be. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > I recently got 256K/256K DSL through Qwest and Black-Hole (ISP). I have the ActionTec R1524SU DSL modem/router, with the most recent firmware. > > I also have a colocated Redhat 7.3 (fully patched) web server. > > I have alot of forums running on my web server, using YABBSE. Whenever I make one or more (most the time around 2 or 3) posts ot the forums I can not longer access my remote web server. I cannot ping or otherwise connect to the server from any machines on my network. If I telnet into the ActionTec router I can NOT ping the server from the router either. > > Once this happens I can still ping/connect to the other colocated servers I have, no problem. If I reboot the Actiontec router I can connect again, but if I make a couple more posts at the forums then I get blocked again. > > I can browse the sites on my web server just fine, for hours, the only problem comes when I go to post on the forums. Anyone else on the Internet can also makes posts/connect just fine to the web server while I am locked out. > > Any ideas?? I have contacted Black-Hole support and they have no solutions. > > It seems like it could be something with my web server configuration, but it's not just Apache, I can't even ping the machine. And it's not a firewall issue, I have tried turning off the firewall for extended periods of time and this still happens. I was on Black-Hole 56K Dialup for almost 4 years and I never had this problem. > > Thank you for reading! > Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Sat Nov 8 22:43:10 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> Here is a link to the methods behind this http://www.unesco.org/mab/brim/workshopdoc/ecological.pdf http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=myfootprint.org+c alculations&btnG=Google+Search -----Original Message----- From: Richard Hoffbeck To: TCLUG Mailing List Sent: 11/8/03 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org I think you're missing the point. It claims that those of us with fairly resource sparing lifestyles are still well above the average 'for your country' So if my 1,200 sqft townhouse (with all new Energy*Star hardware), 100 miles a week in a Honda Civic and 10 hours a year on a plane puts me 50% above the US national average, I don't think its unreasonable to question the calculations involved. I've spent my life working with numbers, and I'm sickened by the bombardment of junk numbers from activist groups. I don't care if its Exxon or Greenpeace, until they provide their numbers, equations and properly source both, I simply refuse to care. For example, one of the primary papers behind the Kyoto Treaty was recently shown to have all sorts of rookie data errors, and some curious decisions in carrying out the calculations. These errors aren't an issue of interpretation, they were things like putting the right number in the wrong column, mislabeling data series, using incomplete or extrapolated data, etc. - pretty basic stuff. Now if the myfootprint.org want to open up their source code and research so we can all see where the calculations are coming, and that they have been correctly implemented, I might be willing to take them a bit more seriously. --rick David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > "Matthew S. Hallacy" writes: > > >>On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:07:01PM -0600, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: >> >>>Um, which part of their estimate do you think is incorrect? >>> >>>Or are you suggesting that because they're "zealots" it's all bad, >>>even if no particular part of it is actually incorrect? >> >>The fact that I live in an apartment complex, don't fly much at all (5 >>hours in the past 3 years), I consume products that were mass produced, >>as opposed to something that took up land in a back yard, etc. >> >>I'm not saying I'm the epitome of 'green' living, but I'm certainly in the >>far low-end for consumption and waste, yet it still seems to think I'm >>a wasteful person. > > > You live in the richest country of the world with the most > resource-intensive lifestyles in the world. Is this really news to > you? You shouldn't be surprised that a relatively modest American > lifestyle is still pretty resource-intensive by world standards. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Sun Nov 9 05:24:27 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Mike J.) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:06 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> Message-ID: <3FAE23EB.6040800@jentges.NET> >> >>You live in the richest country of the world with the most >>resource-intensive lifestyles in the world. Is this really news to >>you? You shouldn't be surprised that a relatively modest American >>lifestyle is still pretty resource-intensive by world standards. Yeah. I mean we have to hurry up and rebuild Iraq to the tune of ~80 billion before the native suicide bombers run out of things to blow up! It often takes milliseconds to blow up a somewhat large building, but many moons to replace it. A resource-intensive deficit. :) But really I'd have to think at the rate they shoot at and attempt to detonate each other over there, the schrapnal, gunpowder and leftovers of past chemical warfare mixed in hot sand have us beat. :) -mj _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sun Nov 9 08:58:27 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <3FAE23EB.6040800@jentges.NET> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> <3FAE23EB.6040800@jentges.NET> Message-ID: <20031109145827.GO3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 9 09:12:59 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <3FAE23EB.6040800@jentges.NET> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> <3FAE23EB.6040800@jentges.NET> Message-ID: <3FAE597B.5090704@visi.com> I think what the myfootpring.org website is trying to do is an attempt to made us think. To think about how we as a people waste our resources. I'm guilty of throwing away food that I could not eat. What I should have done is prepare a meal that was the right portion. I've driven my car when I should have walked. I've had my heat set at 78 degrees when it should have been set at 68 degrees. I've worked 20 miles from where I live, when I should have worked withing walking or biking distance. I think the people behind the website may be trying to point out to us that I may not be making the right choices when it comes to the way I live. I live in a modest home, I drive modest cars, I have a small fishing boat, I have 7 computers, 2 printers, several boom boxes, a 30 inch TV, a big stereo system, and 100's of books. I leave a light on all night in the kitchen and I don't remember the original reason it's on all night. If I look at the waste I produce, I may waste less. I can't fully explain why, but I know we as a people consume more then our "fare" share. We are selfish and greedy when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of living. The crime is that we don't realize what we are doing. Zealots are on both sides of any issue. When we make light of an issue it shows a lack of understanding of the issue it shows we do not have a valid argument against that issue it shows a lack of understanding and reasoning it shows we are in a defensive posture trying to protect something we believe is our right and in that _we choose_ to ignore reality. In the words of Chief Seattle... This we know, the earth does not belong to us We belong to the earth This we know, all things are connected Like the blood which unites one family all things are connected This we know. We do not own anything, the house I live in will exist when I have turned to dust. In time no one will remember me because they never met me. I can trace my family back to 1849 in this country but I do not know these people, I have no true memory of them. Does that mean I should ignore the people of 2200 when they say they can trace their family back to 1849? Does that mean we don't at least think of leaving them something? Will there be anything left for the people of 100, 200, 300 years from now? Do we really believe that the stars will provide for humanity? Or will the stars laugh at our small existence telling us we really only had 1 chance and leave us to die out? We need to think beyond our door step, we need to think beyond our own existence. If we don't we will be looked at as a selfish, ignorant, cruel, and forgotten planet of fools, if the beings of another world do arrive. If they have already arrived, they have found us fools and not worth talking to. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 9 09:21:13 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031108211806.C1121@unix18.sihope.com> References: <001101c3a656$96dfbf30$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031108211806.C1121@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> My 2 cents. I've only used a Cisco 678 DSL modem for a full time DSL connection. It is solid as a rock, I've never had an issue like you've described. Most ISP's use Cisco equipment, in my ignorant thinking I would want to use the same equipment my ISP is using. Because it was engineered to work together by the company that made it. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Sun Nov 9 09:07:15 2003 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Stop the myfootprint thread References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> Message-ID: <3FAE5823.9D918DBF@ppdonline.com> When the subject line includes "Wildly OT" I think we can all agree that the thread needs to die. I'm not perfect, I got baited into the last off topic thread we had, but this is getting ridiculous. Later, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rummey at black-hole.com Sun Nov 9 09:49:43 2003 From: rummey at black-hole.com (Michael D. Cassano) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Actiontec blocking single remote computer References: <001101c3a656$96dfbf30$6401a8c0@rummey><20031108211806.C1121@unix18.sihope.com> <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> Message-ID: <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> I completely agree with both of you that the Cisco 678 is a better piece of machinery. I actually have one sitting right next to me, but I can't find a 5V/1.5A power supply for it. :-( This is the only problem I have had with the ActionTec, so I am hoping this could be fixed and all would be fine. I am trying to get an output of the NAT tables but I can't get the router to crash now! Grm! Everytime I try to post important stuff it crashes repeatedly and now when I want it to crash for diagnostic purposes nothing happens. I will report back in a day or so when it's bound to crash with some router outputs (I call it crashing when it blocks me from the remote machine). Thanks, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam MacDonald" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Actiontec blocking single remote computer > My 2 cents. > > I've only used a Cisco 678 DSL modem for a full time DSL connection. It > is solid as a rock, I've never had an issue like you've described. Most > ISP's use Cisco equipment, in my ignorant thinking I would want to use > the same equipment my ISP is using. Because it was engineered to work > together by the company that made it. > > Sam. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sun Nov 9 10:15:57 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> Message-ID: <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 09:49:43AM -0600, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > I completely agree with both of you that the Cisco 678 is a better piece of > machinery. I actually have one sitting right next to me, but I can't find a > 5V/1.5A power supply for it. :-( Not that you asked, but two places I've had great luck finding power supplies is Axman Surplus (near Snelling & University) and good old Materials Processing in Eagan. The last cheapo CD player I bought didn't come with a power converter--5 minutes of rummaging + $2.50 and I was good to go. :-) -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 9 10:44:30 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20031109104430.6623ab70.sfertch@real-time.com> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:15:57 -0600 "John J. Trammell" wrote: > On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 09:49:43AM -0600, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > > I completely agree with both of you that the Cisco 678 is a better > > piece of machinery. I actually have one sitting right next to me, > > but I can't find a 5V/1.5A power supply for it. :-( > > Not that you asked, but two places I've had great luck finding power > supplies is Axman Surplus (near Snelling & University) and good old > Materials Processing in Eagan. The last cheapo CD player I bought > didn't come with a power converter--5 minutes of rummaging + $2.50 > and I was good to go. :-) > All else fails, go hit your local Radio Shack and buy a power adapter and plug to fit. May cost you $20, but definately worth it if nothing else is available. BTW, didn't Qwest say that any new connections they wouldn't allow the Cisco's to connect up? It had to be the ActionTec? I thought I heard that mentioned somewhere... -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jamuraa at base0.net Sun Nov 9 11:05:04 2003 From: jamuraa at base0.net (Michael Janssen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031108023102.22933.h003.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> References: <20031108023102.22933.h003.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20031109170504.GG28623@base0.net> On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 02:31:01AM -0800, Paul Harris wrote: > Interestingly (to me), if I just moved back to the UK I'd > save almost a whole planet (here I use 4.1, in England 3.2) > with exactly the same answers. And if I adjust the answers > to how I'd actually live in the UK it goes down to 2.7 > > But please don't all move over there to save the earth - > it's a little crowded as it is. Mabye we should all move to Kenya - The same answers in the US and Kenya for me produced 2.3 and 1.0 worlds, respectively. (10 vs 1.3 footprint) -- Michael Janssen --- Jamuraa --- jamuraa@base0.net --- janssen@debian.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rummey at black-hole.com Sun Nov 9 11:17:34 2003 From: rummey at black-hole.com (Michael D. Cassano) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey><20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> <20031109104430.6623ab70.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3a6e5$5dec6180$6401a8c0@rummey> That would REALLY suck. I know that the Cisco 678 was not an option when I first ordered my line. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer > On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:15:57 -0600 > "John J. Trammell" wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 09:49:43AM -0600, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > > > I completely agree with both of you that the Cisco 678 is a better > > > piece of machinery. I actually have one sitting right next to me, > > > but I can't find a 5V/1.5A power supply for it. :-( > > > > Not that you asked, but two places I've had great luck finding power > > supplies is Axman Surplus (near Snelling & University) and good old > > Materials Processing in Eagan. The last cheapo CD player I bought > > didn't come with a power converter--5 minutes of rummaging + $2.50 > > and I was good to go. :-) > > > > > All else fails, go hit your local Radio Shack and buy a power adapter and plug to fit. May cost you $20, but definately worth it if nothing else is available. > > BTW, didn't Qwest say that any new connections they wouldn't allow the Cisco's to connect up? It had to be the ActionTec? I thought I heard that mentioned somewhere... > > -- > Shawn > > "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of > fear." > -Mark Twain > > Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Sat Nov 8 23:38:22 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: need help installing GD.pm In-Reply-To: <000f01c3a662$de0a7920$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <000f01c3a662$de0a7920$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031109053822.GA675@duron.turboland.com> > GD.xs: In function `newDynamicCtx': > > GD.xs:430: structure has no member named `gd_free' When I downloaded and tried building(perl Makefile.PL) the latest GD from cpan it warns me: NOTICE: This module requires libgd 2.0.12 or higher. it will NOT work with earlier versions. See www.cpan.org for versions of GD that are compatible with earlier versions of libgd. Go here and maybe try an older version: http://search.cpan.org/~lds/GD-2.11/ Notice the version numbering, libgd went from a V1 to V2 at some point. Do a ls /usr/lib/gd* and see what versions are present. Or you might be able to google on "gd perl redhat 9 rpm" and find some packaged version somewhere. Or you could download and compile the latest and greatest gd. Or you could switch to Debian, then all your troubles would be over. Just kidding :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Sun Nov 9 11:20:19 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031109170504.GG28623@base0.net> References: <20031108023102.22933.h003.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <20031109170504.GG28623@base0.net> Message-ID: <20031109172019.GQ3114@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 9 12:56:51 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:08 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: need help installing GD.pm In-Reply-To: <20031109053822.GA675@duron.turboland.com> References: <000f01c3a662$de0a7920$0a00a8c0@DELL2> <20031109053822.GA675@duron.turboland.com> Message-ID: <20031109185651.GV753@techmonkeys.org> On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 11:38:22PM -0600, Karl Bongers wrote: > Or you could switch to Debian, then all your troubles would be > over. Just kidding :) libgd-dev 1.8.4-17.woody2 GD Graphics Library (development version). libgd-perl 1.38-5 Perl module wrapper for libgd Or not. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Sun Nov 9 14:08:23 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <20031109172019.GQ3114@iucha.net> References: <20031108023102.22933.h003.c000.wm@mail.harris.net.criticalpath.net> <20031109170504.GG28623@base0.net> <20031109172019.GQ3114@iucha.net> Message-ID: <3FAE9EB7.1080508@visi.com> Florin Iucha wrote: >When will you get it that you are at the top of the very complicated >pyramid. It is likely that Kenya is spending less resources on Nimitz >class aircraft carriers and the Kenyan milk-man is using just a mule >to deliver milk, as opposed to a truck driving on a highway that >require upkeep. > > A mule requires a good deal of upkeep - I'd rather have the truck :-) --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Sun Nov 9 13:14:13 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Copying binaries - not compiling Message-ID: Hey all, I have a question: What is the best flavor of Linux? I am totally kidding. I just compiled aspell and it was plopped into /usr/local/bin One can specifiy a executable directory while in safe_mode in the php.ini. I have created a php_safe directory in /usr/local for binaries that can be executed by php while in safe_mode. I want to have acces to the aspell and php binary, but I need to keep safe_mode on. I copied the aspell binary to the /usr/local/php_safe directory and it seems to be working properly. I come from the windows world where simply copying exe's around is often a fruitless endeavor and sometimes really screws things up. My question is this: is it normally ok to just copy a binary to a new location in linux or do I need to specify the target location during compile? TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sun Nov 9 13:41:11 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: need help installing GD.pm References: Message-ID: <007601c3a6f9$6e2e2010$0a00a8c0@DELL2> > > NOTICE: This module requires libgd 2.0.12 or higher. > it will NOT work with earlier versions. > See www.cpan.org for versions of GD that are compatible > with earlier versions of libgd. > Notice the version numbering, libgd went from a V1 to V2 at some > point. Do a ls /usr/lib/gd* and see what versions are present. > > Or you might be able to google on "gd perl redhat 9 rpm" and find some > packaged version somewhere. > > Or you could download and compile the latest and greatest gd. > > Or you could switch to Debian, then all your troubles would be > over. Just kidding :) Maybe I need to back the wagon up. I am assumming there is a problem with GD, since my upload script errors out. ( Line: __LINE__
File: __FILE__
Error: Can't open file dr_evans.jpg! No such file or directory at /usr/apache/cgi-bin/store/manager/upload.cgi line 21.) Is there a simple script or test I can use to see if GD is working? I just installed GD-2.0.12, and it seemed fine. Also, is there a way of removing all old files from previous GD install attempts, or is that even necessary? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sun Nov 9 13:44:57 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <20031109134232.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> You might check AEI Electronics in Minneapolis as well (might be listed as Acme Electronics Inc). Not sure if they're still around, but IIRC they had a good variety of power supplies. Or you might be able to order one from Cisco. I'll shoot you a contact that might help. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 09:49:43AM -0600, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > > I completely agree with both of you that the Cisco 678 is a better piece of > > machinery. I actually have one sitting right next to me, but I can't find a > > 5V/1.5A power supply for it. :-( > > Not that you asked, but two places I've had great luck finding power > supplies is Axman Surplus (near Snelling & University) and good old > Materials Processing in Eagan. The last cheapo CD player I bought > didn't come with a power converter--5 minutes of rummaging + $2.50 > and I was good to go. :-) > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sun Nov 9 14:07:02 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031109104430.6623ab70.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> <20031109104430.6623ab70.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031109134712.C83349@unix18.sihope.com> > All else fails, go hit your local Radio Shack and buy a power adapter and plug to fit. May cost you $20, but definately worth it if nothing else is available. I don't believe RS normally stocks any above 1A (I used to work there so long ago...) They might now, but I don't think they didn't when I was there. But, they do have a lot of other options that you can have them order in through RSU (Rat Shack Unlimited) > BTW, didn't Qwest say that any new connections they wouldn't allow the Cisco's to connect up? It had to be the ActionTec? I thought I heard that mentioned somewhere... You might be thinking of the 675/CAP vs 678/DMT thing. The original Qwest DSL customers were provisioned with CAP lines, which the 675 could handle. When Qwest switched to DMT (specifically DMT issue-2/T1.413), they started shipping the 678's, which could be flashed to support either technology. Qwest actually certified a bunch of equipment for use on their DMT installs: Cisco 678 external DSL router Intel PRO 2200 internal DSL PCI card Intel PRO 3200 external USB Aeroscom esternal USB Now they are offering the ActionTec, which they encourage you to rent for $5/month, or buy outright for $149. They are really pushing the renting option because people would whine when their $150 AT or $300 cisco (which they may have gotten with a $50 or more rebate from Qwest) fried on them, and they had to plunk down a bunch of money for a new one. We had a few customers that had 675's that they got for $99 ($200 discount from Qwest), fried 3 years later, and they weren't too happy about having to drop $300 to get a new one, when it only cost them $99 to start with. BTW, if anyone is really interested in the nitty-gritty about DMT and CAP, I would highly recommend checking out the HowStuffWorks.com article about DSL. The official DMT spec is pretty dry :) Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rummey at black-hole.com Sun Nov 9 14:21:42 2003 From: rummey at black-hole.com (Michael D. Cassano) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <001b01c3a6ff$1708f480$6401a8c0@rummey> No luck at Axman unfortunately :-( Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "John J. Trammell" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer > On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 09:49:43AM -0600, Michael D. Cassano wrote: > > I completely agree with both of you that the Cisco 678 is a better piece of > > machinery. I actually have one sitting right next to me, but I can't find a > > 5V/1.5A power supply for it. :-( > > Not that you asked, but two places I've had great luck finding power > supplies is Axman Surplus (near Snelling & University) and good old > Materials Processing in Eagan. The last cheapo CD player I bought > didn't come with a power converter--5 minutes of rummaging + $2.50 > and I was good to go. :-) > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Nov 9 14:18:15 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Copying binaries - not compiling References: Message-ID: <006601c3a6fe$9b6a12f0$0201a8c0@brinstar> PHPTOm writes: > My question is this: is it > normally ok to just copy a binary to a new location in linux or do I > need to specify the target location during compile? Normally, yes. Usually, what is hard coded into a binary is the path to config files. PHP, for example, has a hard coded path to php.ini. You can place the binary anywhere you want, but it will always look for php.ini in the same place. Allowing the user to call external binaries is always risky. Programs designed to be run locally quite likely have exploitable security holes. Make sure you do a security audit of everything first. If you can find a security hole with grep, so can your users. It is probably better to use the PHP pspell extension. I strongly suggest not using safe mode for PHP. While I haven't done an audit, I imagine there is at least one hole. Considering how easy it is to crash the PHP interpreter (for example, infinite recursion), I doubt it's totally secure. And even if it is, just configuring it properly is difficult. Relying on safe mode means your setup isn't secure. As the PHP manual says, and as anyone should realize, the proper way to solve the problem is at the OS level. CGI scripts, including PHP, need to be run as the owner of the script. This solves two major problems that occur under the typical Apache / mod_php setup. * Scripts cannot keep anything private. If a script has to connect to the database, the authentication info is stored in the script. Because the script is readable by the web server, any other user on the system can grab the authentication info. A friend of mine had his database on SourceForge trashed because of this. * Scripts cannot securely write to anything. If a script needs to write a file, then the file must be world writable, or at least writable by the web server. This means any other user on the system can write to the file. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 9 14:58:39 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031109134232.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> <20031109134232.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <20031109145839.64ab437d.sfertch@real-time.com> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:44:57 -0600 (CST) Ada > Or you might be able to order one from Cisco. I'll shoot you a > contact that might help. > Adam, Any chance you can shoot the contact my way as well? I'm looking for the rack mounting brackets on my Cisco hub (FastHub 400 series) and haven't had much luck. Everyone I inquire about says that they have some, but they aren't departing with any of them. Thanks. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Sun Nov 9 03:45:48 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: need help installing GD.pm In-Reply-To: <007601c3a6f9$6e2e2010$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <007601c3a6f9$6e2e2010$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031109094548.GA881@duron.turboland.com> > Is there a simple script or test I can use to see if GD is working? I just > installed GD-2.0.12, and it seemed fine. Yep, they are in perl pkg GD-2.0.12 in a directory called demo. ./brushes.pl > test.png > Also, is there a way of removing all old files from previous GD install > attempts, or is that even necessary? Hmmm, what and how did you install(rpm, cpan, src, ..)? Probably don't have to worry about it. Maybe do a ls /usr/lib/libgd* to see what versions you have, look in /usr/lib/perl5? > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sun Nov 9 16:11:02 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031109145839.64ab437d.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <005801c3a6d9$18083150$6401a8c0@rummey> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> <20031109134232.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> <20031109145839.64ab437d.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031109161044.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> Steve Chiodo Comstar Inc. 952-835-5502 x304 Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Shawn wrote: > On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:44:57 -0600 (CST) > Ada > > Or you might be able to order one from Cisco. I'll shoot you a > > contact that might help. > > > > Adam, > Any chance you can shoot the contact my way as well? I'm looking for the rack mounting brackets on my Cisco hub (FastHub 400 series) and haven't had much luck. Everyone I inquire about says that they have some, but they aren't departing with any of them. > > Thanks. > > -- > Shawn > > "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." > -Mark Twain > > Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Nov 9 16:30:36 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TANGENT] Actiontec blocking single remote computer In-Reply-To: <20031109134232.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> References: <3FAE5B69.80707@visi.com> <20031109161557.GA2413@mail.el-swifto.com> <20031109134232.B83349@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <200311091630.36361.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 09 November 2003 01:44 pm, Adam Maloney wrote: > You might check AEI Electronics in Minneapolis as well (might be listed as > Acme Electronics Inc). Not sure if they're still around, but IIRC they > had a good variety of power supplies. > They're still around. They are out in Golden Valley now. Highway 55 and Douglas Drive. If you're going west bound on 55 from downtown it'd be just after 55 and 100 cross. You'll need to go past it to Douglas drive and come back around the frontage road. (past the Wells Fargo branch and a resturant that used to be a Denny's but isn't anymore.) I suspect if they don't have it on the shelf they can get you something. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michael.arolan at excite.com Sun Nov 9 17:40:29 2003 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is the default password? Message-ID: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> Hi Guys - Does anyone know what the password that Linux uses when you create a user from the comand line is? I created a user using the following syntax: /user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser latuser This creates an account for latuser and locks the account. I also see that there is a password entered for that user, do you know what that is? When I sue the following syntax, the account is not locked but, again, the password is not "word999" as I specified with the -p option. /user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser -p word999 latuser Does anyone know what the default password is? Thanks guys, Michael _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 9 18:03:41 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is the default password? In-Reply-To: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <3FAED5DD.1000905@visi.com> As superuser try passwd "latest user" It should prompt for a new password. Sam. Michael wrote: >Hi Guys - > > > >Does anyone know what the password that Linux uses when you create a user from the comand line is? I created a user using the following syntax: > > > >/user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser latuser > > > >This creates an account for latuser and locks the account. I also see that there is a password entered for that user, do you know what that is? > > > >When I sue the following syntax, the account is not locked but, again, the password is not "word999" as I specified with the -p option. > > > >/user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser -p word999 latuser > > > >Does anyone know what the default password is? > > > >Thanks guys, > > > >Michael > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com >The most personalized portal on the Web! > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sun Nov 9 18:09:29 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is the default password? In-Reply-To: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Does anyone know what the password that Linux uses when you create a user from the comand line is? I created a user using the following syntax: there is no default password. > /user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser latuser > This creates an account for latuser and locks the account. I also see that there is a password entered for that user, do you know what that is? iirc it does not lock the account, PAM is usually set to not allow null passwords, and as such an account with no password appears to be locked. > When I sue the following syntax, the account is not locked but, again, the password is not "word999" as I specified with the -p option. i sure hope you meant use, as sueing a syntax would be rather fruitless. > /user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser -p word999 latuser the adduser man page says: -p passwd The encrypted password, as returned by crypt(3). The default is to disable the account. so yes, the account is not locked but the password is set to whatever get crypted to word999 > Does anyone know what the default password is? again, there is none. your best bet is to create a script that crypts the password and then feeds that into the adduser command, perl is best used for this as there is no crypt command afaik -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Fri Nov 7 08:50:49 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:09 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8BF@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Wow, it only took me about 4 hours to torrent all three disks. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@mn-linux.org] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:22 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora Importance: High On Wednesday 05 November 2003 05:08 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > This question is probably a question for Bob Tanner et. al. What is the > status of Fedora? Do you expect the mirror of Fedora Core 1 to be up > tomorrow? The mirror is way overloaded, I think RH cut bandwidth when they dropped their free distro. Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( If anyone is able to torrent the iso and drop them off, that would rock. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Fri Nov 7 10:10:21 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8C0@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Let's try this again I have them downloaded via torrent. It took about 4-5 hours. Anyone need them in Eden Prairie? Anyone have a local Twin Cities mirror? -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Johnson [mailto:waynej@dccmn.com] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 9:43 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Cc: dru@druswanderings.net Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora My torrent is still at 152 hours... And I've been torrenting for 2 days! The Wandering Dru said: > Bob Tanner wrote: >> On Wednesday 05 November 2003 05:08 pm, Perry Hoekstra wrote: >> >>>This question is probably a question for Bob Tanner et. al. What is >>> the status of Fedora? Do you expect the mirror of Fedora Core 1 to be >>> up tomorrow? >> >> >> The mirror is way overloaded, I think RH cut bandwidth when they >> dropped their free distro. >> >> Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( >> >> If anyone is able to torrent the iso and drop them off, that would >> rock. >> > > My torrent finished up last night but I wouldn't be able to drop them > off 'til Monday. > > -- > The Wandering Dru > http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such > > Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! > http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Sun Nov 9 21:49:59 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Status of Fedora In-Reply-To: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8BF@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> References: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8BF@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Message-ID: <200311092149.59414@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Friday 07 November 2003 08:50 am, Neigebauer, Ben wrote: > Wow, it only took me about 4 hours to torrent all three disks. > From: Bob Tanner [mailto:tanner@mn-linux.org] > Been downloading the files list for the last 18hrs :-( I believe ftp.mn-linux.org has an up to date sync with fedora core now. Let me know what, if anything, is missing. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Nov 10 08:12:07 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is the default password? In-Reply-To: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <20031110081207.A5871@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 06:40:29PM -0500, Michael wrote: > /user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser -p word999 latuser As others have said, you need a crypted password. The easiest way to do that is with "mkpasswd", its in the whois package on Debian. The following should work: /user/sbin/useradd -c "Latest user" -g free_email -n -d /u02/free_email/homes/latuser -p `mkpasswd word999` latuser -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Mon Nov 10 08:58:44 2003 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using man Message-ID: <16303.42916.4048.133239@gargle.gargle.HOWL> [Warning: This is almost certainly a dumb question.] Once upon a time, I used to use man -k a lot to find manpages that I needed. But now, whenever I use man -k, it seems like the few interesting pages I want (mostly from volume 1, but occasionally also from 5 or 8), are overwhelmed by a flood of information about the Xt and Tk libraries (volumes 3 and 3x). Is there any way to filter your use of man? I poked around, but it seems that man -k is the same as apropos, and apropos (which seems to be the same as whatis) doesn't have a command line argument for volume number. Any suggestions? Thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Mon Nov 10 09:41:12 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B330@IPSERVER2> Message-ID: <3FAFB198.4070609@visi.com> Thanks, I've printed it out and I try to take a detailed look at it later today. But after just a quick pass through it appears that there are a lot of potential issues. There seems to be an underlying assumption that a productive acre is a productive acre, which simply isn't true. Developed countries have made capital investments to make acreage specialized and more efficient. Minneapolis has a much higher carrying capacity than Kenya because of the investments made over the last two centuries to provide clean water and sewer, transportation and power. Iowa farm land is much more productive than land that is equally rich in Ukraine because of the investments made in tillage, irrigation and roads to get to markets. Now if you a quick gut check on this, last year the US imported $1.46T US in goods and services, about 14% of GDP, and exported $1.1T US for a trade deficit of around $350B US. According to myfootprint the average US citizen is using 5.33 times as many acres as we should, yet somehow we're able to do it while only spending 0.14 times our overall production for imports, and .03 times our total economy for net imports. If gross undifferentiated acres are the correct resource measurement the numbers don't simply add up. BTW, this stuff goes back to Malthus and more recently the Club of Rome and Jimmy Carter's Global 2000 report in the early '70's. The latter predicted that gas would be $100 a gallon by 2000, but in fact the real price of gasoline at the pump is about 30% cheaper than it was then and it is a much higher quality product that no longer spews lead into the environment. --rick Ryan Ware wrote: > Here is a link to the methods behind this >http://www.unesco.org/mab/brim/workshopdoc/ecological.pdf > >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=myfootprint.org+c >alculations&btnG=Google+Search > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Mon Nov 10 09:46:42 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8C2@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Maybe it's that they mean support us with out having to radically change our surroundings like you mention. We may be able to support ourselves on this land, but definitely do not tread lightly upon it. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Richard Hoffbeck [mailto:rwh@visi.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:41 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org Thanks, I've printed it out and I try to take a detailed look at it later today. But after just a quick pass through it appears that there are a lot of potential issues. There seems to be an underlying assumption that a productive acre is a productive acre, which simply isn't true. Developed countries have made capital investments to make acreage specialized and more efficient. Minneapolis has a much higher carrying capacity than Kenya because of the investments made over the last two centuries to provide clean water and sewer, transportation and power. Iowa farm land is much more productive than land that is equally rich in Ukraine because of the investments made in tillage, irrigation and roads to get to markets. Now if you a quick gut check on this, last year the US imported $1.46T US in goods and services, about 14% of GDP, and exported $1.1T US for a trade deficit of around $350B US. According to myfootprint the average US citizen is using 5.33 times as many acres as we should, yet somehow we're able to do it while only spending 0.14 times our overall production for imports, and .03 times our total economy for net imports. If gross undifferentiated acres are the correct resource measurement the numbers don't simply add up. BTW, this stuff goes back to Malthus and more recently the Club of Rome and Jimmy Carter's Global 2000 report in the early '70's. The latter predicted that gas would be $100 a gallon by 2000, but in fact the real price of gasoline at the pump is about 30% cheaper than it was then and it is a much higher quality product that no longer spews lead into the environment. --rick Ryan Ware wrote: > Here is a link to the methods behind this >http://www.unesco.org/mab/brim/workshopdoc/ecological.pdf > >http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=myfootprint. org+c >alculations&btnG=Google+Search > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 11/3/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Mon Nov 10 10:03:39 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using man In-Reply-To: <16303.42916.4048.133239@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16303.42916.4048.133239@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031110100339.A6266@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 08:58:44AM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Once upon a time, I used to use man -k a lot to find manpages that I > needed. But now, whenever I use man -k, it seems like the few > interesting pages I want (mostly from volume 1, but occasionally also > from 5 or 8), are overwhelmed by a flood of information about the Xt > and Tk libraries (volumes 3 and 3x). Is there any way to filter your > use of man? I poked around, but it seems that man -k is the same as > apropos, and apropos (which seems to be the same as whatis) doesn't > have a command line argument for volume number. Kind of a kludge, but something like this would help a little: man -k cat | grep -v 3x | grep -v \(3ssl\) Or you could try adjusting your /etc/manpath.config, if you are not often likely to care about certain volumes. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Nov 10 10:21:48 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using man In-Reply-To: <16303.42916.4048.133239@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16303.42916.4048.133239@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FAFBB1C.4060705@eworld3.net> I started looking at the man man page and tried: man -K
but I was not happy with the results. Notice that the 'K' is upper case. Robert P. Goldman wrote: > [Warning: This is almost certainly a dumb question.] > > Once upon a time, I used to use man -k a lot to find manpages that I > needed. But now, whenever I use man -k, it seems like the few > interesting pages I want (mostly from volume 1, but occasionally also > from 5 or 8), are overwhelmed by a flood of information about the Xt > and Tk libraries (volumes 3 and 3x). Is there any way to filter your > use of man? I poked around, but it seems that man -k is the same as > apropos, and apropos (which seems to be the same as whatis) doesn't > have a command line argument for volume number. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Mon Nov 10 11:30:13 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerry) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using man In-Reply-To: <16303.42916.4048.133239@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: I think what we need to do is change the makehwatis command to exclude those sections. 3 appears to be the programming section. You can decide if you want them in your manpath. My makewhatis (Redhat) is run from /etc/cron.daily/makewhatis.cron by anacron and I could just append -s to it to exclude that section from the whatis databaes and the apropos command. Gerry On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > [Warning: This is almost certainly a dumb question.] > > Once upon a time, I used to use man -k a lot to find manpages that I > needed. But now, whenever I use man -k, it seems like the few > interesting pages I want (mostly from volume 1, but occasionally also > from 5 or 8), are overwhelmed by a flood of information about the Xt > and Tk libraries (volumes 3 and 3x). Is there any way to filter your > use of man? I poked around, but it seems that man -k is the same as > apropos, and apropos (which seems to be the same as whatis) doesn't > have a command line argument for volume number. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > R -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Nov 10 12:11:56 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] using man In-Reply-To: <3FAFBB1C.4060705@eworld3.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I started looking at the man man page and tried: > man -K
> > but I was not happy with the results. Notice that the 'K' is upper case. Using the wonderfully self-referencial `man man`, we find: -K Search for the specified string in *all* man pages. Warning: this is probably very slow! It helps to specify a section. (Just to give a rough idea, on my machine this takes about a minute per 500 man pages.) If you want to specify the volume you want to view, it seems to be `man # name`, i.e., `man 3 printf` (as `man printf` would show printf(1)). Not seeing a way in whatis/apropos to specify on-the-fly. Annoying. I tend to use a grep hack, myself. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Nov 11 00:53:02 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IBM and Redhat (and SuSE and Novell) In-Reply-To: <3FAAB368.6040804@visi.com> References: <3FA90CB2.1040401@visi.com> <3FA930DA.8070607@visi.com> <1068056328.29006.58.camel@lotsa> <3FA94D0B.5010807@argle.org> <3FAA593F.1030808@earthlink.net> <3FAAB368.6040804@visi.com> Message-ID: <1068533580.10001.2.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Nov 11 01:53:42 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:10 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wildly OT www.myfootprint.org In-Reply-To: <3FAC694F.5030102@earthlink.net> References: <1068238902.29006.753.camel@lotsa> <20031107230237.GT753@techmonkeys.org> <3FAC694F.5030102@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1068537222.10001.8.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Nov 11 02:22:26 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What is the default password? In-Reply-To: <20031110081207.A5871@pchelka.space.umn.edu> References: <20031109234029.315F5B6AE@xmxpita.excite.com> <20031110081207.A5871@pchelka.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1068538946.10001.18.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Tue Nov 11 15:09:58 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Novell and IBM Linux Solutions Seminar In-Reply-To: <20031020010739.GA18701@fandre.com> References: <20031020010739.GA18701@fandre.com> Message-ID: <3FB15026.2010900@eworld3.net> Since I went to this and ate their food I might as well say a little about what happened. I know that some other people who attended also read this list so maybe you can comment also (you know who you are ;-). Obviously it was a lot of marketing talk but here are a few things that I thought you might be interested in: - There were about 125 people in attendance, about twice what anyone expected. - Novell and IBM are currently in the process of converting ALL their desktops and servers to Linux. - Novell is porting their Netware filesystem to Linux but it will not be open sourced. - The acquisition of SuSE is being complicated by politics because SuSE has been a strong supporter of KDE but since Novell bought Ximian, that is what they are supporting. - The laptop that the slide presentation was given from was running Linux and it was the marketing guy's machine, not just a laptop that they use to impress Linux people. He was using Ximian's version of OpenOffice. - IBM is pushing VMWare as a way to consolidate servers. - The breakfast wasn't very good but the lunch was very good! - I got them to mention the TCLUG and give out the URL. - They gave new laptops to everyone who attended. Yea, right. Clay Fandre wrote: > I was asked by our local Novell rep to forward this on to the list. > I know, it is probably a lot of sales and marketing fluff, but it > might be worth checking out. And maybe pass it on to your > pointy-haired boss. > > -- Clay > > Novell and IBM have over 100 business signed up for the first public > push toward Linux. Please visit the following > http://www.novell.com/linux/seminar.html and pick Minneapolis to sign > up. Take a look at the agenda I think you will find it useful. I > look forward to you attending. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Tue Nov 11 20:26:16 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] compiling php - no apxs Message-ID: Hello all, I am trying to upgrade my php to 4.3.4. I am using redhat9 and apache 2. I want to compile php as an apache module. As I understand it, I need to use --with-apxs when I compile php. I have no apxs. I assume that my apache 2 and php 4.2.2 we're installed from RPM's. Am I going to have to recompile apache? I imagine this is a question that would take three days to answer, so if someone can throw me a bone, that'd be great. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Nov 11 20:49:16 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <20031104123215.GA4573@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> <20031104081759.GV753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104123215.GA4573@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: <20031111204916.3a7f3ba1.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:32:15 -0500 David Blevins wrote: > The results are identical to a find command. > > $ find ./ -name "*.html" > ./abc/asdf/foo.html > ./abc/asdf/test.html > ./abc/bar.html > ./test.html > ./xyz/qwer/oofrab.html > ./xyz/test.html > Apologies on the thread hijacking, but I'm working on something similar. I'm trying to move data from one server to another, and am running into 2GB file limits on the find command. Is there a better way to do this and still keep the same ownership/permissions? Actually it's cpio... Here's the error: "Value too large to be stored in data type cpio: Size of data1/storage/oradump_01.dbf > 2GB. Not dumped." It's on a UNIX box, but think it applies to Linux as well. Never hit the 2GB limit on a linux system yet. Here's what I was doing: #find . -print|cpio -ocv|remsh server1 "umask 0; cd /oracle2; cpio -icvdum" Is there a better way in general to do this as well as allow me to go beyond the 2GB limitation? the .rhost entry is only temporary, so don't worry about the security aspect of it I know about it. =) -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Nov 11 20:50:29 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311120250.hAC2oTl10271@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: Dsl Modem I'm looking to buy a Cisco 678 Dsl Modem for use with Qwest dsl service. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Nov 11 21:07:45 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] compiling php - no apxs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031112030745.GA29843@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 08:26:16PM -0600, PHPTOm wrote: > Hello all, > > I am trying to upgrade my php to 4.3.4. I am using redhat9 and apache 2. I > want to compile php as an apache module. As I understand it, I need to > use --with-apxs when I compile php. I have no apxs. > > I assume that my apache 2 and php 4.2.2 we're installed from RPM's. Am I > going to have to recompile apache? I imagine this is a question that would > take three days to answer, so if someone can throw me a bone, that'd be > great. > > TOm > Have you installed httpd-devel? -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Nov 11 21:16:45 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] compiling php - no apxs References: Message-ID: <00a401c3a8cb$66d2e2f0$0201a8c0@brinstar> PHPTOm writes: > I am trying to upgrade my php to 4.3.4. I am using redhat9 and > apache 2. I want to compile php as an apache module. As I > understand it, I need to > use --with-apxs when I compile php. I have no apxs. You need to use --with-apxs2. Since you seem to already have a version of PHP working, you can create a page that calls phpinfo(), copy the Configure Command, and use that as a hint on what paths to use for your system. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Tue Nov 11 21:28:39 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] compiling php - no apxs In-Reply-To: <20031112030745.GA29843@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: >Have you installed httpd-devel? No, but I am going to now. Thanks for the bone. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Tue Nov 11 21:40:23 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] compiling php - no apxs In-Reply-To: <00a401c3a8cb$66d2e2f0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: >You need to use --with-apxs2. >Since you seem to already have a version of PHP working, you can create a >page that calls phpinfo(), copy the Configure Command, and use that as a >hint on what paths to use for your system. I copied the configure command and I am going to try to compile now. Thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Wed Nov 12 04:01:00 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200311120250.hAC2oTl10271@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200311120250.hAC2oTl10271@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <1632.199.199.150.6.1068631260.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> I have one, moving soon, may not be able to use 675 there, but I've got no special attachments to it either. What's it worth? -mj And hence spewed: TCLUG Classifieds > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: Want to Buy > > Subject: Dsl Modem > > I'm looking to buy a Cisco 678 Dsl Modem for use with Qwest dsl service. > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Wed Nov 12 04:29:20 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <1632.199.199.150.6.1068631260.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <200311120250.hAC2oTl10271@crusader.real-time.com> <1632.199.199.150.6.1068631260.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <1912.199.199.150.6.1068632960.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Sorry, to be clear I have one of each. I don't have any aversions to using whatever they use now, unless it will break my bank. Haven't looked at it yet. Fact remains, I'm in need of immediate cash. :) -mj And hence spewed: Michael Jentges > > > > I have one, moving soon, may not be able to use 675 there, but I've got no special > attachments to it either. What's it worth? > > -mj > > And hence spewed: TCLUG Classifieds >> New TCLUG Classified Ad >> >> Category: Computer >> >> Type of Ad: Want to Buy >> >> Subject: Dsl Modem >> >> I'm looking to buy a Cisco 678 Dsl Modem for use with Qwest dsl service. >> >> http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > --------------------- > Jentges.NET, Inc. > Voice: 763.783.3702 > Cell: 763.370.1201 > --------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 12 08:29:56 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200311120250.hAC2oTl10271@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200311120250.hAC2oTl10271@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <2664.65.116.187.220.1068647396.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I have a Cisco 675 that is not being used any longer. > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: Want to Buy > > Subject: Dsl Modem > > I'm looking to buy a Cisco 678 Dsl Modem for use with Qwest dsl service. > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Wed Nov 12 09:54:28 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <20031111204916.3a7f3ba1.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa> <010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> <20031104081759.GV753@techmonkeys.org> <20031104123215.GA4573@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> <20031111204916.3a7f3ba1.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FB257B4.1060608@argle.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 For the remote copying why not just use scp/rcp -R and copy the tree over that way? You might need a couple of other flags if you have links, but it should just work. Shawn wrote: | On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:32:15 -0500 | David Blevins wrote: | | |>The results are identical to a find command. |> |>$ find ./ -name "*.html" |>./abc/asdf/foo.html |>./abc/asdf/test.html |>./abc/bar.html |>./test.html |>./xyz/qwer/oofrab.html |>./xyz/test.html |> | | | Apologies on the thread hijacking, but I'm working on something similar. I'm trying to move data from one server to another, and am running into 2GB file limits on the find command. Is there a better way to do this and still keep the same ownership/permissions? | | Actually it's cpio... Here's the error: | | "Value too large to be stored in data type cpio: Size of data1/storage/oradump_01.dbf > 2GB. Not dumped." | | It's on a UNIX box, but think it applies to Linux as well. Never hit the 2GB limit on a linux system yet. | | Here's what I was doing: | | #find . -print|cpio -ocv|remsh server1 "umask 0; cd /oracle2; cpio - -icvdum" | | Is there a better way in general to do this as well as allow me to go beyond the 2GB limitation? the .rhost entry is only temporary, so don't worry about the security aspect of it I know about it. =) | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/slez8/QSptFdBtURAq1zAJwKuvzHyhjpe0agLYEE7ovbh9ONEgCeOstS 9Ki2c6kg3p3IphFyIAYvkg8= =ElQc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 12 13:46:36 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: <3FB257B4.1060608@argle.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Daniel Taylor wrote: > For the remote copying why not just use scp/rcp -R and copy the tree > over that way? You might need a couple of other flags if you have links, > but it should just work. Or take it one level further and use rsync over ssh? rsync -ave ssh ./ server1:/oracle2/ It only transfers files that have changed, too. Jima rsync advocate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Wed Nov 12 14:23:17 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] src rpm problem Message-ID: <074501c3a95a$cee71f70$650b0b0a@DELL2> I am trying to install rrdtool-1.40-1.src.rpm with rpmbuild --rebuild rrdtool-1.0.40-1.src.rpm. I get the following error when trying to install the rpm. rpm -i rrd* error: Failed dependencies: /usr/local/bin/perl is needed by rrdtool-1.0.40-1 I think it is a configure option when building from source, but I am not understanding what syntax to use to make it use /usr/bin/perl _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Nov 12 14:29:00 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rsync over ssh rocks! I use it to keep a prd web site in sync with test system. verrrryyyyy niceeeeee On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:46:36 -0600 (CST), Jima wrote: > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Daniel Taylor wrote: >> For the remote copying why not just use scp/rcp -R and copy the tree >> over that way? You might need a couple of other flags if you have links, >> but it should just work. > > Or take it one level further and use rsync over ssh? > > rsync -ave ssh ./ server1:/oracle2/ > > It only transfers files that have changed, too. > > Jima > rsync advocate > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Nov 12 14:33:25 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] src rpm problem In-Reply-To: <074501c3a95a$cee71f70$650b0b0a@DELL2> References: <074501c3a95a$cee71f70$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031112203325.GA28513@refried.org> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 02:23:17PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am trying to install rrdtool-1.40-1.src.rpm with rpmbuild --rebuild > rrdtool-1.0.40-1.src.rpm. I get the following error when trying to install > the rpm. > rpm -i rrd* > > error: Failed dependencies: > > /usr/local/bin/perl is needed by rrdtool-1.0.40-1 This is probably a packaging bug. Whoever made the rpm had perl in /usr/local/bin. 1. Install the src.rpm, the files will go in /usr/src/redhat (or whatever your rpm build root is.) 2. edit the spec file /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/rrdtool.spec and remove /usr/local/bin/perl. rpmbuild should find this dependency automatically. 3. Build the rpm using rpmbuild -bb rrdtool.spec. If you want a new src.rpm at the end of this, use -ba instead. 4. Congratulate yourself. You're learning how to make rpms. :) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 12 14:39:01 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] src rpm problem Message-ID: You could do this and see if it gets you past this error: ln -s /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/bin/perl Good luck, Troy >>> admin@lctn.org 11/12/03 02:23PM >>> I am trying to install rrdtool-1.40-1.src.rpm with rpmbuild --rebuild rrdtool-1.0.40-1.src.rpm. I get the following error when trying to install the rpm. rpm -i rrd* error: Failed dependencies: /usr/local/bin/perl is needed by rrdtool-1.0.40-1 I think it is a configure option when building from source, but I am not understanding what syntax to use to make it use /usr/bin/perl _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 12 15:44:20 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] src rpm problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > You could do this and see if it gets you past this error: > > ln -s /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/bin/perl AFAIK, it's checking the dependency in the RPM database, so making a symlink won't trick it sufficiently. I'd call that a poorly packaged SRPM, myself. Nate's instructions are the surest bet, I think. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Wed Nov 12 15:51:33 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] old question revisited Message-ID: <120501c3a967$236827e0$650b0b0a@DELL2> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 12 16:03:15 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] src rpm problem Message-ID: I agree. And it also explains why I have not learned how to make RPMs yet. Far too easy to take a quick hack at the problem than to address the root of it. Fortunately, I'll have to solve that problem soon... :-) >>> jima@beer.tclug.org 11/12/03 03:44PM >>> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > You could do this and see if it gets you past this error: > ln -s /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/bin/perl AFAIK, it's checking the dependency in the RPM database, so making a symlink won't trick it sufficiently. I'd call that a poorly packaged SRPM, myself. Nate's instructions are the surest bet, I think. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Wed Nov 12 16:16:02 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt Question Message-ID: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> Hey, Slow day so I thought I'd get this taken care of. I've been a mutt user for a while (probably a year or two), and I have looked around for this for a while, but i'm stumped. Where is my "sent items" folder? I have read the config a couple times and looked at online documentation, expecting to see a "sent items folder" variable, but I don't see anything. So what is the mutt way of doing this? Also, I would like to hear any mutt tips/tricks - because i really dig mutt but i find the folder handling in particular a bit tedious. Thanks Dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Nov 12 16:13:16 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs Message-ID: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> Hi everyone, I'm going to be setting up an "issue tracking" system on a Linux system soon and I wonder if any of you would be willing to share any experiences. I've done a lot of googling and looking at various Web sites. I've found a couple packages that run on top of Zope, some PHP, and one Java-based one. Any of those platforms is fine with me. As long as they support MySQL or Postgres I don't really care about the db backend. The goal is to implement a system where technical support people from various schools in the district where I work can add items to a queue and assign responsibility for repairs. Ease of use is a plus since many of the people who may use the system aren't necessarily very geeky. (Odd, I know.) One program I looked at (http:/helpdesk.oneorzero.com/) allowed people to submit "tickets" without having a login. This would allow teachers to add items without the extra hassle of managing another set of passwords. We can put it on a password-protected intranet to prevent virtual passersby from adding anything. I'm not opposed to spending some money for such a beast, but at this point the entire concept is pretty new to almost everyone and I don't want to shell out big bucks for a system that doesn't get used much. So free/open source would be a plus at this stage and would have the added benefit of helping me push the FOSS concept more. Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Wed Nov 12 16:34:37 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FB2B57D.5020705@andersonfam.org> I'm currently evaluating ticket tracking systems for work as well. These two are at the top of my list: OTRS : http://otrs.org/ RT: http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ One nice feature of both of these products is that they can be set to periodically check an IMAP/POP3 mailbox and recieve tickets that way. -Erik Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm going to be setting up an "issue tracking" system on a Linux system > soon and I wonder if any of you would be willing to share any > experiences. I've done a lot of googling and looking at various Web > sites. I've found a couple packages that run on top of Zope, some PHP, > and one Java-based one. Any of those platforms is fine with me. As long > as they support MySQL or Postgres I don't really care about the db backend. > > The goal is to implement a system where technical support people from > various schools in the district where I work can add items to a queue > and assign responsibility for repairs. Ease of use is a plus since many > of the people who may use the system aren't necessarily very geeky. > (Odd, I know.) One program I looked at (http:/helpdesk.oneorzero.com/) > allowed people to submit "tickets" without having a login. This would > allow teachers to add items without the extra hassle of managing another > set of passwords. We can put it on a password-protected intranet to > prevent virtual passersby from adding anything. > > I'm not opposed to spending some money for such a beast, but at this > point the entire concept is pretty new to almost everyone and I don't > want to shell out big bucks for a system that doesn't get used much. So > free/open source would be a plus at this stage and would have the added > benefit of helping me push the FOSS concept more. > > Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 12 16:33:11 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] old question revisited Message-ID: The test file is the file you have now, for input? Do the users have to be user on the host (and so have entries in /etc/passwd) to use proxy_auth? Just trying to clarify, Troy >>> admin@lctn.org 11/12/03 03:51PM >>> I set up a proxy/content filter, using squid for another school . We are using proxy_auth , so each user must login. We have 1100 names that need to be imported into the password file. I think one response I got last time I posted a similar question was to use some sort of loop with CAT. This is the format the test file will be in Internet Password , username nikitajo, Adolph.Tara _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mburns+ml at clonetank.org Wed Nov 12 16:46:08 2003 From: mburns+ml at clonetank.org (Michael Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031112224608.GA53296@mail.minifac.net> Have you looked at RT (free, commercial support available)? http://bestpractical.com/rt/ -- Michael _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Nov 12 16:47:18 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt Question In-Reply-To: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> References: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> Message-ID: <20031112224718.GA28615@refried.org> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 04:16:02PM -0600, Dan Rue wrote: > I've been a mutt user for a while (probably a year or two), and I have > looked around for this for a while, but i'm stumped. Where is my "sent > items" folder? You set it in your .muttrc like so: set record="~Mail/sent" Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 12 16:59:23 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FB2BB4B.3000206@visi.com> I've worked with "Action Request System" from Remedy ( http://www.remedy.com ) in the past, it can be customized for needs from help desk to change management and general customer service, it all depends on your needs. We had the data on Sybase on Sun box's, I know it could be on Oracle or almost any other db back end. I didn't support the product but I used it, it's a good solid product. Sam. Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm going to be setting up an "issue tracking" system on a Linux > system soon and I wonder if any of you would be willing to share any > experiences. I've done a lot of googling and looking at various Web > sites. I've found a couple packages that run on top of Zope, some PHP, > and one Java-based one. Any of those platforms is fine with me. As > long as they support MySQL or Postgres I don't really care about the > db backend. > > The goal is to implement a system where technical support people from > various schools in the district where I work can add items to a queue > and assign responsibility for repairs. Ease of use is a plus since > many of the people who may use the system aren't necessarily very > geeky. (Odd, I know.) One program I looked at > (http:/helpdesk.oneorzero.com/) allowed people to submit "tickets" > without having a login. This would allow teachers to add items without > the extra hassle of managing another set of passwords. We can put it > on a password-protected intranet to prevent virtual passersby from > adding anything. > > I'm not opposed to spending some money for such a beast, but at this > point the entire concept is pretty new to almost everyone and I don't > want to shell out big bucks for a system that doesn't get used much. > So free/open source would be a plus at this stage and would have the > added benefit of helping me push the FOSS concept more. > > Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From amy at real-time.com Wed Nov 12 17:10:19 2003 From: amy at real-time.com (amy@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:12 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt Question In-Reply-To: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> References: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> Message-ID: <20031112231019.GJ17472@real-time.com> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 04:16:02PM -0600, Dan Rue (drue@therub.org) wrote: > Hey, > Slow day so I thought I'd get this taken care of. > > I've been a mutt user for a while (probably a year or two), and I have > looked around for this for a while, but i'm stumped. Where is my "sent > items" folder? I have read the config a couple times and looked at > online documentation, expecting to see a "sent items folder" variable, > but I don't see anything. So what is the mutt way of doing this? Also, > I would like to hear any mutt tips/tricks - because i really dig mutt > but i find the folder handling in particular a bit tedious. I use 'record' for this: 6.3.181. record Type: path Default: "" This specifies the file into which your outgoing messages should be appended. (This is meant as the primary method for saving a copy of your messages, but another way to do this is using the ````my_hdr'''' command to create a Bcc: field with your email address in it.) The value of ``$record'' is overridden by the ````$force_name'''' and ````$save_name'''' variables, and the ````fcc-hook'''' command. something like this: set record="INBOX/sent" -- Amy Tanner amy@real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Wed Nov 12 17:11:46 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <20031112224608.GA53296@mail.minifac.net>; from mburns+ml@clonetank.org on Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 10:46:08PM +0000 References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> <20031112224608.GA53296@mail.minifac.net> Message-ID: <20031112171146.C2927@real-time.com> On 11/12 10:46 , Michael Burns wrote: > Have you looked at RT (free, commercial support available)? > > http://bestpractical.com/rt/ we just installed Request Tracker here; and we're still getting used to it. the user interface takes some getting used to; we were formerly using Keystone, which was buggy, but usable. We abandoned Keystone because they wanted payment if it's used by more than 10 people or so; whereas Request Tracker is free. Apparently Bob spent a good bit of time installing and configuring it; you'll have to talk to him about what it all involved. I think most of it was packaging stuff up (since we're very particular about packaging everything here, instead of just installing without packages). Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tbr at pinguim.net Wed Nov 12 17:30:10 2003 From: tbr at pinguim.net (Tyson Rogers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031112233010.GA13159@baojong.mine.nu> I've been a mutt user for about 3 years, but I haven't really progressed beyond the minimal requirements that meet my needs. However, my needs do include a good record of my sent e-mail. The mutt config line that you're looking for is set copy=yes set record=+sent-mail The first line says you want to keep a copy of outgoing mail. The second line says where to store it -- in this case messages will be appended to a file called sent-mail in your mutt folder directory. The '+' in "record=+sent-mail" indicates that the sent-mail file is to be put in the mail folder directory. Alternatively you could give an explicit path. You probably already have your folder directory set as part of your configuration file. For example my folder directory is specified as set folder="~/mail" If you want to get fancy you can specify that mail be saved to a file specific to the year/month that you sent it (the date command is enclosed in left single parentheses). set record=+sent-mail-`date +%Y-%m` One last tip: I don't like html e-mail but a lot of people use it. If you have lynx installed you can deal with html mail by having a lynx-interpreted text rendition of it dumped into mutt's e-mail viewer. This is also handy for quoting html e-mail in a text response. To accomplish this you add the line auto_view text/html to your mutt configuration file and text/html; lynx -force_html -dump %s; copiousoutput; to either your /etc/mailcap or ~/.mailcap file (you may need to comment out an existing text/html line in the mailcap). I look forward to seeing responses about mutt configuration tips other people have found helpful. Tyson ---------------------- Tyson Rogers http://www.pinguim.net On Wed, Nov 12 2003 at 04:21:09PM, tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org wrote: > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:16:02 -0600 > From: Dan Rue > Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt Question > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Message-ID: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hey, > Slow day so I thought I'd get this taken care of. > > I've been a mutt user for a while (probably a year or two), and I have > looked around for this for a while, but i'm stumped. Where is my "sent > items" folder? I have read the config a couple times and looked at > online documentation, expecting to see a "sent items folder" variable, > but I don't see anything. So what is the mutt way of doing this? Also, > I would like to hear any mutt tips/tricks - because i really dig mutt > but i find the folder handling in particular a bit tedious. > > Thanks > Dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Nov 12 18:01:47 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311130001.hAD01la30040@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Bay Networks Centillion 5000 Large Network Chassis I have a total of 9 Bay Networks Centillion 5000 Chassis. 6 are new, 3 are used. Mixed 10/100 blades and MMF and SMF Fiber ports. I'm looking to get about $500 ea or best offer for them, still working on finding management software. Also, if anyone has any clue where to find the software (wether interested or not) please let me know. WILL DELIVER WITHIN TWIN CITIES AREA. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Wed Nov 12 18:05:56 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE/OpenSSH/Mutt question Message-ID: <20031113000556.GB16900@fireopal.org> I've poked at this one off and on for a few months now. I'm running KDE on Mandrake on a laptop. I use the KDE wrapper around OpenSSH to connect to my server (running Debian), where I read my e-mail using mutt. How do I copy text out of mutt and into some other app in KDE? The thing I'm mostly likely to want to do is grab a URL and paste it into a browser. Just highlighting the text doesn't work (though that's the option I'm using in puTTY on Windows). Highlight and Control-C doesn't work, because mutt grabs that as an exit command. Highlight and right-click doesn't work. Suggestions? 'Move to {window manager} and use {method}' would be an acceptable answer - I currently have minimal experience with / attachment to _any_ X window manager! -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Wed Nov 12 21:55:44 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031112214525.E19891@unix18.sihope.com> We switched to OTRS a few months ago. It's great. At least for us, it does everything we need. It's well-written and very extensible. Everything is perl so it's simple to modify (code is very clean and well-organized). Uses MySQL as a back-end. Perl+DBI+MySQL means it's very easy to write supporting scripts for it (if, god forbid, there was something OTRS couldn't do alone!) We are really not using it to it's full potential yet. We simply use it for support e-mails to get directed to the right people, escalate after some time if necessary, etc. It has lots of other features that we haven't even looked at yet (call tracking will probably be the next biggy.) Installation was pretty painless, and I don't think we've had any real problems with it since it went into place. IIRC, we just had to do the CPAN dance for some modules, but other than perl modules there really weren't any dependencies. We are very satisifed :) Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Tim Wilson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm going to be setting up an "issue tracking" system on a Linux system > soon and I wonder if any of you would be willing to share any > experiences. I've done a lot of googling and looking at various Web > sites. I've found a couple packages that run on top of Zope, some PHP, > and one Java-based one. Any of those platforms is fine with me. As long > as they support MySQL or Postgres I don't really care about the db > backend. > > The goal is to implement a system where technical support people from > various schools in the district where I work can add items to a queue > and assign responsibility for repairs. Ease of use is a plus since many > of the people who may use the system aren't necessarily very geeky. > (Odd, I know.) One program I looked at (http:/helpdesk.oneorzero.com/) > allowed people to submit "tickets" without having a login. This would > allow teachers to add items without the extra hassle of managing > another set of passwords. We can put it on a password-protected > intranet to prevent virtual passersby from adding anything. > > I'm not opposed to spending some money for such a beast, but at this > point the entire concept is pretty new to almost everyone and I don't > want to shell out big bucks for a system that doesn't get used much. So > free/open source would be a plus at this stage and would have the added > benefit of helping me push the FOSS concept more. > > Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson > Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA > Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy > mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Wed Nov 12 21:57:56 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re:old question revisited Message-ID: <002601c3a99a$532b7300$0a00a8c0@DELL2> > The test file is the file you have now, for input? > Do the users have to be user on the host (and > so have entries in /etc/passwd) to use proxy_auth? > Just trying to clarify, > Troy the password file is one created with htpasswd. It currently has 20-30 names, but needs the 1100 imported, with password. This is an IPCop box with squid and dansguardian, so there will only be squid users, nothing in /etc/passwd The format for the users will look like: password , username1 password, username2 password, username3 or, it could be reversed. I thought about using a redhat box, importing the users with webmin, and doing a cut and past into my password file on the other box, but I'm not sure if passwords are maintained doing it this way. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Nov 12 22:30:16 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to find file that contains specific text References: <1067898494.8536.30.camel@lotsa><010401c3a288$3e126230$0201a8c0@brinstar><20031104041928.GA3895@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com><20031104081759.GV753@techmonkeys.org><20031104123215.GA4573@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> <20031111204916.3a7f3ba1.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <00a601c3a99e$d6bc56e0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Shawn writes: > I'm trying to move data from one server to another, and am > running into 2GB file limits on the find command. Is there a better > way to do this and still keep the same ownership/permissions? rsync -azP -e ssh path user@host:/path -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Nov 12 22:35:21 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE/OpenSSH/Mutt question References: <20031113000556.GB16900@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <00d301c3a99f$8cb719d0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Scott Raun writes: > I use the KDE wrapper around > OpenSSH to connect to my server (running Debian), where I read my > e-mail using mutt. I haven't used KDE for a couple of years, so that OpenSSH thing might be something new. At any rate, I suggest using Konsole and running SSH from there. Konsole supports copy and paste just like PuTTY does. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Wed Nov 12 22:49:46 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] old question revisited References: <120501c3a967$236827e0$650b0b0a@DELL2> Message-ID: <00e701c3a9a1$8fc8dbc0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Raymond Norton writes: > I asked this way back, but find it painfully slow to search each > month for questions I have posted. I Tried to download the whole > archive, but it stalls. Is there an easy way to search the whole > thing? Use Google's site search feature. > I set up a proxy/content filter, using squid for another school . We > are using proxy_auth , so each user must login. We have 1100 names > that need to be imported into the password file. I think one response > I got last time I posted a similar question was to use some sort of > loop with CAT. This is the format the test file will be in > > Internet Password , username > nikitajo, Adolph.Tara This shell script will do it. Replace users.txt with the name of your input file and passwd.txt with the password file. After you have tested it, remove the echo command to have it actually run the htpasswd program. for i in $(cat users.txt | sed 's/ //') do echo htpasswd -b passwd.txt \ $(echo $i | cut -d',' -f1) \ $(echo $i | cut -d',' -f2) done -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Wed Nov 12 22:53:38 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <20031112214525.E19891@unix18.sihope.com> References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> <20031112214525.E19891@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <5886139F-1595-11D8-9083-000A95A50472@visi.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 9:55 PM, Adam Maloney wrote: > We are really not using it to it's full potential yet. We simply use > it > for support e-mails to get directed to the right people, escalate after > some time if necessary, etc. It has lots of other features that we > haven't even looked at yet (call tracking will probably be the next > biggy.) How does the escalation work? Let's say a teacher is having trouble with his or her network connection. He or she then might send an email to the building tech support person. At that point the problem would get entered into the system (either by the teacher or the tech). What I'd like is for the tech to try to fix it, and if he or she can't then push it up the line to a network administrator at the school district level. He might then need to push it further up if it looks like it's an even bigger problem than he first thought. Is that relatively easy to do in practice? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Wed Nov 12 11:15:37 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE/OpenSSH/Mutt question In-Reply-To: <20031113000556.GB16900@fireopal.org> References: <20031113000556.GB16900@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20031112171537.GA769@duron.turboland.com> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 06:05:56PM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > How do I copy text out of mutt and into some other app in KDE? The > thing I'm mostly likely to want to do is grab a URL and paste it into > a browser. Have you tried highlighting text, then middle click(both mouse buttons) to paste it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Nov 12 23:27:16 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Mutt Question In-Reply-To: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> References: <20031112221602.GA4983@therub.org> Message-ID: <16307.5684.108066.916344@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Dan" == Dan Rue writes: Dan> Hey, Dan> Slow day so I thought I'd get this taken care of. Dan> I've been a mutt user for a while (probably a year or two), and I have Dan> looked around for this for a while, but i'm stumped. Where is my "sent Dan> items" folder? I have read the config a couple times and looked at Dan> online documentation, expecting to see a "sent items folder" variable, Dan> but I don't see anything. So what is the mutt way of doing this? Also, Dan> I would like to hear any mutt tips/tricks - because i really dig mutt Dan> but i find the folder handling in particular a bit tedious. It's managed by the fcc-hook (file carbon copy), AFAIK. If you don't set an fcc, you may not have a sent items folder... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Wed Nov 12 23:51:07 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin-2.60, redhat9, krb5, openssl issues? Message-ID: <20031112235107.A4707@real-time.com> Trying to get spamassassin-2.60 to compile on a stock redhat9 box. Getting all sorts of issues with openssl and krb5. Nothing informative on google, so I thought I'd ask here. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Nov 13 00:42:28 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Spamassassin-2.60, redhat9, krb5, openssl issues? In-Reply-To: <20031112235107.A4707@real-time.com> References: <20031112235107.A4707@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031113064228.GM753@techmonkeys.org> Add -I/usr/kerberos/ to your compile flags. On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:51:07PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Trying to get spamassassin-2.60 to compile on a stock redhat9 box. > > Getting all sorts of issues with openssl and krb5. > > Nothing informative on google, so I thought I'd ask here. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Thu Nov 13 06:43:36 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <5886139F-1595-11D8-9083-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <69FD2908-155D-11D8-9C7D-000A95A50472@visi.com> <20031112214525.E19891@unix18.sihope.com> <5886139F-1595-11D8-9083-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031113063205.Y82249@unix18.sihope.com> Everything is queue based. You would have queues like "Level 1 Support", "Level 2 Support" and "Level 3 Support" (for instance). If the Level-1 guy couldn't solve the problem, he could add notes to the ticket and just move it to the next queue up. It really is that painless - the queues are listed in a drop-down, you just select where to move it and it's all automagic. Actually the escalation I was talking about was that OTRS can move it to another queue if it doesn't get worked in a certain amount of time. So if one of your Level-1 tickets goes unanswered for 2 days, you can have it automatically go into some boss' queue and he can start firing people :) Also, we have procmail setup to direct mail into the proper queues based on the recipient. billing@sihope automatically goes into the billing queue, webmaster@sihope automatically goes into the webmaster queue, etc. Anything that isn't obvious based on the To line goes into the "Raw" queue, which gets sorted throughout the day by the techs. They go through the raw queue and move these remaining messages to the right spots. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Tim Wilson wrote: > On Nov 12, 2003, at 9:55 PM, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > We are really not using it to it's full potential yet. We simply use > > it > > for support e-mails to get directed to the right people, escalate after > > some time if necessary, etc. It has lots of other features that we > > haven't even looked at yet (call tracking will probably be the next > > biggy.) > > How does the escalation work? Let's say a teacher is having trouble > with his or her network connection. He or she then might send an email > to the building tech support person. At that point the problem would > get entered into the system (either by the teacher or the tech). What > I'd like is for the tech to try to fix it, and if he or she can't then > push it up the line to a network administrator at the school district > level. He might then need to push it further up if it looks like it's > an even bigger problem than he first thought. > > Is that relatively easy to do in practice? > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson > Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA > Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy > mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Thu Nov 13 12:15:22 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:13 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? Message-ID: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> Hey Gang, Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people that I would be working with. So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Thu Nov 13 13:17:30 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? References: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> Message-ID: <000801c3aa1a$c8cf3440$6501a8c0@xp2100> Hey everyone, brand new linux user here, have Mandrake 9.2/Win2K set up on seperate drives. Need to get together with some linux gurus so i can figure out what the f&^% im doing, lol. I dont even know how to install a RPM, were is the .exe extension on a RPM?? j/k Well hope to meet some of ya soon:) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Rue" To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:15 PM Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? > Hey Gang, > Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. > > I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open > source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would > like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people > that I would be working with. > > So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? > Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. > dan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Thu Nov 13 13:08:43 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] KDE/OpenSSH/Mutt question In-Reply-To: <20031112171537.GA769@duron.turboland.com>; from kbongers@mninter.net on Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:15:37AM -0600 References: <20031113000556.GB16900@fireopal.org> <20031112171537.GA769@duron.turboland.com> Message-ID: <20031113130843.A23570@real-time.com> On 11/12 11:15 , Karl Bongers wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 06:05:56PM -0600, Scott Raun wrote: > > How do I copy text out of mutt and into some other app in KDE? The > > thing I'm mostly likely to want to do is grab a URL and paste it into > > a browser. > > Have you tried highlighting text, then middle click(both mouse buttons) > to paste it. + will also paste it in some cases; Konqueror may or may not honor that. I usually just do that in xterms and the like. Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From garay002 at tc.umn.edu Thu Nov 13 13:12:25 2003 From: garay002 at tc.umn.edu (Rodney G. Garayt) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install Message-ID: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> I want to know what the correct steps are for partitioning a drive during a new RH9 install. My setup is two hd. The boot drive is fully allocated to Win98 and the second drive is for Linux. What I want to do is allocate 10 gig from the primary drive (the "win98 drive") for Linux. How do I do that? My previous version of Linux was Mandrake 9.1 and that has a very nice partitioning tool (diskdrake) that would have allowed me to do that during the install process but I coudn't figure it out with the GUI RH9 install. What should I have done? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Nov 13 14:12:17 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install In-Reply-To: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> References: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1068754337.3062.369.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 13:12, Rodney G. Garayt wrote: > I want to know what the correct steps are for partitioning a drive > during a new RH9 install. > My setup is two hd. The boot drive is fully allocated to Win98 and the > second drive is for Linux. What I want to do is allocate 10 gig from > the primary drive (the "win98 drive") for Linux. > How do I do that? If you really need 10 gig from that win98 drive for linux you'll have to re-partition the drive. I'm assuming you don't want to trash anything on your Win98 drive and the drive has one big'ol Fat32 partition on it useing the whole drive. 1) Your could backup your windows, repartition the drive With 2 partitions trashing everything, then restore windows to the smaller partition. then you would have space to install on hda. 2) shrink your windows partiton with Partition Magic or something like it (are there any open source programs that will do this??) leaving you space for your linux partiton. 3) install linux to your other drive. Once you have room on the win98 drive for a linux partition the installer should be fairly self explanatory. You can format the space on the drives 3 ways with the installer if I'm not mistaken, using fdisk, Disk druid gui, or full auto, whatever that is. - Tom > My previous version of Linux was Mandrake 9.1 and that has a very nice > partitioning tool (diskdrake) that would have allowed me to do that > during the install process but I coudn't figure it out with the GUI RH9 > install. What should I have done? Can the Mandrake installer shrink existing Fat32 partitions? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 13 14:37:56 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> References: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> Message-ID: <3FB3EBA4.7080801@eworld3.net> I have an *idea* for a project that might interest you. Create a new Linux distribution, called Installfest Linux. This distro has a very specific purpose: to be an installfest server. What does an installfest server do? During an installfest it serves distros via multiple methods and runs the network. Between fests it stays connected to the Internet & keeps it's distros updated. This is a very brief description but if you are interested we can discuss it further. Dan Rue wrote: > Hey Gang, > Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. > > I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open > source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would > like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people > that I would be working with. > > So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? > Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. > dan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From garay002 at tc.umn.edu Thu Nov 13 14:49:11 2003 From: garay002 at tc.umn.edu (Rodney G. Garayt) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install In-Reply-To: <1068754337.3062.369.camel@lotsa> References: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> <1068754337.3062.369.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FB3EE47.1080302@tc.umn.edu> Tom Penney wrote: >On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 13:12, Rodney G. Garayt wrote: > > >>I want to know what the correct steps are for partitioning a drive >>during a new RH9 install. >>My setup is two hd. The boot drive is fully allocated to Win98 and the >>second drive is for Linux. What I want to do is allocate 10 gig from >>the primary drive (the "win98 drive") for Linux. >>How do I do that? >> >> > >If you really need 10 gig from that win98 drive for linux you'll have to >re-partition the drive. I'm assuming you don't want to trash anything on >your Win98 drive and the drive has one big'ol Fat32 partition on it >useing the whole drive. > >1) Your could backup your windows, repartition the drive With 2 >partitions trashing everything, then restore windows to the smaller >partition. then you would have space to install on hda. > >2) shrink your windows partiton with Partition Magic or something like >it (are there any open source programs that will do this??) leaving you >space for your linux partiton. > >3) install linux to your other drive. > >Once you have room on the win98 drive for a linux partition the >installer should be fairly self explanatory. You can format the space on >the drives 3 ways with the installer if I'm not mistaken, using fdisk, >Disk druid gui, or full auto, whatever that is. > >- Tom > > > >>My previous version of Linux was Mandrake 9.1 and that has a very nice >>partitioning tool (diskdrake) that would have allowed me to do that >>during the install process but I coudn't figure it out with the GUI RH9 >>install. What should I have done? >> >> > >Can the Mandrake installer shrink existing Fat32 partitions? > > >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> I have win98 on a 60 gig hd and RH9 on a 5 gig hd. If I had re-installed Mandrake from scratch I could have defined 10 gigs from the "c:" drive along with the 5 gig drive for Linux... I seem to recall having done this in the past with Mandrake... anyway that's what I'd like to do now. I absolutely do NOT want to mess with win98. I just had to re-install it a couple of weeks ago and it takes nearly two days to install it and all the other software I use on it. No I don't have PartitionMagic and I don't want to spend the money just for this one-time use. What I think I can do is do a Mandrake install then come back and do a RH install. Sounds kinda like a long way to go but Mandrake would be able to assist me in defining the drives the way I want them. Then when I did RH I'd tell it to accept the existing partitions. Btw, if the 5 gig drive defined for linux is partitioned as /, swap and [the other one... i forget... /usr?] , how should I label/mount the 10 gig ext3 space to linux? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Nov 13 14:56:36 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install In-Reply-To: <1068754337.3062.369.camel@lotsa> References: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> <1068754337.3062.369.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031113145636.A16689@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:12:17PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > 2) shrink your windows partiton with Partition Magic or something like > it (are there any open source programs that will do this??) leaving you > space for your linux partiton. The program that you want is called parted. Its on Knoppix, as well as most distros. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Nov 13 14:56:22 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? References: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> Message-ID: <3FB3EFF6.3010203@structural-wood.com> Dan Rue wrote: > Hey Gang, > Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. > > I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open > source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would > like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people > that I would be working with. > > So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? > Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. > dan > What are your interests and skills? I do a lot of programming in gtk/gnome and C and I'm comfortable in a fair number of other languages. I would be interested in working on a card making program (quad and half fold) or a powerful graphical 3-d structural analysis program using one of the open source finite element analysis programs. Madness is my goal, and I'm well on my way. Moo Haa Haa Ha (cough). Kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joeltclug at litriusgroup.com Thu Nov 13 15:52:06 2003 From: joeltclug at litriusgroup.com (Joel) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install In-Reply-To: <3FB3EE47.1080302@tc.umn.edu> References: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> <1068754337.3062.369.camel@lotsa> <3FB3EE47.1080302@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1068760326.3fb3fd06d9b21@mail.fifthstreet.net> > No I don't have > PartitionMagic and I don't want to spend the money just for this > one-time use. Parted _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Thu Nov 13 14:46:32 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install In-Reply-To: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> (garay002@tc.umn.edu) References: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200311132046.hADKkWc21055@ecstasy.winternet.com> >I want to know what the correct steps are for partitioning a drive >during a new RH9 install. >My setup is two hd. The boot drive is fully allocated to Win98 and the >second drive is for Linux. What I want to do is allocate 10 gig from >the primary drive (the "win98 drive") for Linux. >How do I do that? First, be sure that the win98 partition is defragged, so you have at least 10 GB of contiguous space at the end of the partition that is not allocated by the fat32 filesystem. This step may not be necessary depending on how the primary drive is repartitioned. The SuSE distribution has a "limited function" Partition Magic program that can split a Windows partition prior to starting the installation. A safe option is to use Partition Magic to split the win98 partition as desired prior to installation. At least the commercial version of Partition Magic will move fat32 structures as needed, thus the above defragging step could be avoided. Using GNU parted to do the same thing prior to actual installation is another option, but you may not want to skip the defrag step, since parted may not move fat32 filesystem structures if needed. >My previous version of Linux was Mandrake 9.1 and that has a very nice >partitioning tool (diskdrake) that would have allowed me to do that >during the install process but I couldn't figure it out with the GUI RH9 >install. What should I have done? I'm not sure Red Hat GNU/Linux 9 provides Windows partition splitting as a part of the installation process. Red Hat may still require one to use the fips program (located in the dosutils directory of the first Red Hat GNU/Linux 9 CD) to split a Windows partition prior to installation. fips requires that the Windows partition be already defragged. I suggest that all documents in the directory dosutils/fipsdocs be read (at least readme.1st) before using fips. Summary: Defrag the Windows partion. Use Partition Magic, parted or fips to split the Windows partition prior to installation. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 13 17:51:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> References: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> Message-ID: <3FB41914.9020102@visi.com> Do you know PHP, MySQL, Apache (SSL) and Linux? Sam. Dan Rue wrote: >Hey Gang, >Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. > >I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open >source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would >like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people >that I would be working with. > >So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? >Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. >dan > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at myrealbox.com Thu Nov 13 17:54:10 2003 From: kcbnac at myrealbox.com (K B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? Message-ID: <1068767650.c1b56860kcbnac@myrealbox.com> Heck...I've got (Some of you will remember it) a Dual P-II IBM Server from the last installfest...needs a bootloader (not sure why it didn't install...haven't had time to mess with it since) and if I can get more HD racks, then more SCSI drives go in (2 18 gig's in there now...room for 4 more hot swappable) So if someone's really interested in it, I'm up for putting this box out for use for it. (Just sits and takes space right now anyways...) -----Original Message----- From: Rick Meyerhoff To: TCLUG Mailing List Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:37:56 -0600 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? I have an *idea* for a project that might interest you. Create a new Linux distribution, called Installfest Linux. This distro has a very specific purpose: to be an installfest server. What does an installfest server do? During an installfest it serves distros via multiple methods and runs the network. Between fests it stays connected to the Internet & keeps it's distros updated. This is a very brief description but if you are interested we can discuss it further. Dan Rue wrote: > Hey Gang, > Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. > > I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open > source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would > like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people > that I would be working with. > > So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? > Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. > dan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Thu Nov 13 19:27:34 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input Message-ID: Hello all, I have an obtuse question. I am currently using redhat 9. I recently got a new computer and I am thinking about using a different distro. I don't want to be stuck on redhat in case they get into M$-like licensing or anything like that. I don't want to be dependant on the up2date system. However I don't want to have to constantly check for updates and handle recompile a chunk of software every time a security hole is found. I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I should probably stay with redhat. My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? This is pretty subjective so feel free to email me off list so as to not start a war of any kind. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Nov 13 20:34:06 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history Message-ID: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joeltclug at litriusgroup.com Thu Nov 13 21:42:22 2003 From: joeltclug at litriusgroup.com (Joel) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1068781342.3fb44f1eab4b9@mail.fifthstreet.net> Quoting PHPTOm : > > My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not underneath a > huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > > This is pretty subjective so feel free to email me off list so as to not > start a war of any kind. > > TOm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > fedora? http://fedora.redhat.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Thu Nov 13 21:35:58 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031113213558.10a9c62f.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 "PHPTOm" wrote: > I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro > is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I > should probably stay with redhat. > > My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not > underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > My recommendation: Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: #upgradepkg packagename.tgz Does it for you... I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Nov 13 22:32:05 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B376@ipserver2.interplastic.com> You were playing with rm and * ;) Actually I would think that would be a common file to delete if someone were trying to cover their tracks. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Penney To: TCLUG Sent: 11/13/03 8:34 PM Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Nov 13 22:49:35 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history In-Reply-To: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> References: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <3FB45EDF.3040200@comcast.net> Rootkits? Tom Penney wrote: > I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am > supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think > of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From burns at runbox.com Thu Nov 13 22:37:08 2003 From: burns at runbox.com (Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Torvalds and Stallman in the news Message-ID: <20031114043708.71487.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com> From: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20031113/bs_nf/22684 "Subpoenas Fly in IBM-SCO Legal Battle" Nov 13, 2003 Add Business - NewsFactor to My Yahoo! by James Maguire -------- The SCO Group-IBM lawsuit is already a high-profile court battle, but it is becoming even more intense. Both sides have issued a raft of subpoenas requiring an extensive list of industry figures to become involved with the proceedings. SCO has filed subpoenas naming Linux creator Linus Torvalds, the Free Software Foundation's Richard Stallman, Open Source Development Lab head Stuart Cohen, Transmeta general counsel John Horsley, and Novell, which recently agreed to acquire SuSE Linux. SCO issued the subpoenas to learn "how certain programs may have gone into Linux, and what these individuals' dealings with IBM and others may have been," SCO spokesperson Blake Stowell told NewsFactor. [snip] -------- From: "SCO Targets Torvalds, Stallman" by Daniel Lyons 11.13.03 -------- [snip] Ferguson says it's no surprise that SCO wants to talk to Torvalds. He's the Finnish programmer who created the Linux operating system kernel 12 years ago and who oversees the process by which new features are added to Linux. Torvalds received a subpoena during dinner Wednesday night and says now he'll need to hire a lawyer. "Do you know any good lawyers in this area?" he asked via e-mail. "Just kidding." Stallman is another obvious candidate for SCO's legal hit men. Not only did he write much of the code that makes up the GNU/Linux operating system, but in 1989 he created the GNU General Public License under which Linux and many other free software programs are distributed. SCO has challenged the validity of the GPL. Stallman says the Boston-based Free Software Foundation, which he founded in 1985, has nothing to do with SCO's lawsuit. "SCO is suing IBM for violating a contract. We don't even know what the contract said. In terms of the resolution of that lawsuit, the Free Software Foundation is entirely uninvolved," he says. [snip] -------- Other recent stories: http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/14/cz_dl_1014linksys.html "Linux's Hit Men" by Daniel Lyons 10.14.03 http://www.forbes.com/2003/08/04/cz_dl_0804linux.html "Red Hat's Mad Matt Vs. Humongous SCO Lawsuit" by Daniel Lyons 08.04.03 -------- Randy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Thu Nov 13 22:37:24 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history In-Reply-To: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> References: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031114043724.GA6323@mail.el-swifto.com> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:34:06PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am > supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think > of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? > Just for kicks, what does chkrootkit say? -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Nov 14 08:05:17 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I will second this recommendation I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret --upgrade' Quick painless and easy to use Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 "PHPTOm" wrote: > I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro > is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I > should probably stay with redhat. > > My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not > underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > My recommendation: Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: #upgradepkg packagename.tgz Does it for you... I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Nov 14 08:24:16 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - thinking about gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Nov 14 08:31:19 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <20031114083119.021ee6b3.sfertch@real-time.com> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:05:17 -0600 "Lansing, Dan" wrote: > I will second this recommendation > I have found this to be an easier set up and install than > windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with > new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret > --update &&swaret --upgrade' Quick painless and easy to use > Sweet! I'm going to have to look into that. I knew about it, but haven't had much time to do more than think about it. =) -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Nov 14 08:42:46 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B2@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Never was too big of a fan of using packages before...but with swaret it is so easy I don't really have any excuse...only drawback so far is that at this time it only pulls from the slackware mirrors so if it isn't an included package you need to do it the old way Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:31 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:05:17 -0600 "Lansing, Dan" wrote: > I will second this recommendation > I have found this to be an easier set up and install than > windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with > new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret > --update &&swaret --upgrade' Quick painless and easy to use > Sweet! I'm going to have to look into that. I knew about it, but haven't had much time to do more than think about it. =) -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Nov 14 08:47:58 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not just use it. I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or two. A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at no cost? If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, either way - VERY BAD. And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > I will second this recommendation > I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret --upgrade' > Quick painless and easy to use > > Dan Lansing > ITSC > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 > "PHPTOm" wrote: > > > I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro > > is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I > > should probably stay with redhat. > > > > My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not > > underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > > > > My recommendation: > > Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. > > As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: > > #upgradepkg packagename.tgz > > Does it for you... > > I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. > > I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Nov 14 08:57:06 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] trouble with CPAN Message-ID: Attention Perl Monks: I'm trying to install some Perl modules using CPAN. (I don't know much about Perl or CPAN unforutnately.) I'm getting the following error message when I try to use this program to install the dependencies necessary to run the RT issue tracking software that I asked the list about recently: [root@forums rt-3-0-6]# perl sbin/rt-test-dependencies --with-postgres --with-modperl1 --install perl: 5.8.0...found MASON dependencies: Params::Validate 0.02...MISSING CPAN: Storable loaded ok Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz: not in gzip format Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz: not in gzip format Warning: Your /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz does not contain a Line-Count header. Please check the validity of the index file by comparing it to more than one CPAN mirror. I'll continue but problems seem likely to happen. Warning: Your /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz does not contain a Last-Updated header. Please check the validity of the index file by comparing it to more than one CPAN mirror. I'll continue but problems seem likely to happen. Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz: not in gzip format Is it possible that whatever external program that is being used to download these files is doing the gunzip on the fly and messing up the perl script that is expecting a .gz file? Any other suggestions? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 14 09:27:50 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> LOLROF I've been converted, halaluia, praise the Slack! I'm not kidding! Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? I'm not kidding. Adam Maloney wrote: >I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not >just use it. > >I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and >cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or >two. > >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. > >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at >no cost? > >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, >either way - VERY BAD. > >And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? > >I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. > >On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > > >>I will second this recommendation >>I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret --upgrade' >>Quick painless and easy to use >> >>Dan Lansing >>ITSC >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input >> >>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 >>"PHPTOm" wrote: >> >> >> >>>I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro >>>is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I >>>should probably stay with redhat. >>> >>>My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not >>>underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? >>> >>> >>> >>My recommendation: >> >>Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. >> >>As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: >> >>#upgradepkg packagename.tgz >> >>Does it for you... >> >>I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. >> >>I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... >> >> >> > >Adam Maloney >Systems Administrator >Sihope Communications > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Nov 14 09:16:12 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Love it love it love it love it. Gentoo is similar to slack, but a bit easier (and a bit more annoying in the same breath). You get [more or less] minute control of your system, (yay ports!) which is great, but anything you compile through ports is compiled on your system. So if it's a slow box, this can make for a few very long emerge -uD world's (updates all packages and dependencies) if you wait too long to run it. The user forums on gentoo.org are phenomenal too. Probably the best Linux help I've ever received from there. (Apart from this list, of course! ;) John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Johnny Fulcrum > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:24 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? > > > > > Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also > looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - > thinking about > gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Fri Nov 14 09:30:02 2003 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: I need distribution input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB4F4FA.7060402@goldengate.net> If you don't mind feedback from a relative newbie, I would also suggest you consider Slackware. I started this March with Mandrake, and I'm still running it one one machine. I have Slackware on a 2nd machine now, and I am finding it faster and more stable. Also, for getting to know Linux, Slackware seems to be more streamlined and simple. It is designed to give you full control over the machine. Mandrake has their GUI control center, but I find it more confusing than Slackware to get behind the GUI at the config files - there seems to be an extra level of complexity. Hint - once you get Slackware installed and go in as root, be sure to check your email with Pine. If I were starting over, knowing what little more I do now, I think I would just go with Slackware from the beginning. -- Cheers, Charlie Obert " There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance." - R. Buckminster Fuller _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Nov 14 09:38:31 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311141538.hAEFcVv25099@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Computer Disposal Services I am embarking on a new business venture with a company I use to work for, Resolution Inc. We are disposing of computer hardware for anyone that needs to dispose of hardware. We can destroy hard disk's so the data can not be extracted. Please contact me at smac@visi.com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Fri Nov 14 09:38:25 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> Message-ID: <1068824303.11782.66.camel@unixws1> It will, and it will be happy! You should be able to fit a basic install in 200MB. When you get to the portion of the install that has you select groups of packages to install, do: A (required) AP (basic system utils) N (network) I'm hoping this is still accurate, it's been awhile since I've done it. You will probably want to install K (kernel sources), but they're pretty big, and will chew most of your disk. On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 09:27, Sam MacDonald wrote: > LOLROF > > I've been converted, halaluia, praise the Slack! > > I'm not kidding! > > Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? > > I'm not kidding. > > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > >I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not > >just use it. > > > >I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and > >cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or > >two. > > > >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE > >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the > >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, > >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by > >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian > >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other > >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will > >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. > > > >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 > >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth > >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at > >no cost? > > > >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing > >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm > >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, > >either way - VERY BAD. > > > >And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? > > > >I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. > > > >On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > > > > > >>I will second this recommendation > >>I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret --upgrade' > >>Quick painless and easy to use > >> > >>Dan Lansing > >>ITSC > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn > >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM > >>To: TCLUG Mailing List > >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input > >> > >>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 > >>"PHPTOm" wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro > >>>is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I > >>>should probably stay with redhat. > >>> > >>>My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not > >>>underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>My recommendation: > >> > >>Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. > >> > >>As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: > >> > >>#upgradepkg packagename.tgz > >> > >>Does it for you... > >> > >>I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. > >> > >>I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... > >> > >> > >> > > > >Adam Maloney > >Systems Administrator > >Sihope Communications > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Nov 14 09:41:05 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031114094105.4c9b6a56.sfertch@real-time.com> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:27:50 -0600 Sam MacDonald wrote: > LOLROF > > I've been converted, halaluia, praise the Slack! > > I'm not kidding! > > Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? > > I'm not kidding. > Why wouldn't it? Cut your packages down to a minimum and it'll fit fine. Take a look at the 4MB laptop install HOW-TO on tldp.org and use that as a guide. Of course, there is always ZipSlack which fits on a 100MB Zip disk... Giving up on the Debian Sam? ;) -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Fri Nov 14 09:51:55 2003 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <1068824303.11782.66.camel@unixws1> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com>, <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> Message-ID: Adam Maloney said: > It will, and it will be happy! > > You should be able to fit a basic install in 200MB. > > When you get to the portion of the install that has you select groups of > packages to install, do: > > A (required) > AP (basic system utils) > N (network) > > I'm hoping this is still accurate, it's been awhile since I've done it. > > You will probably want to install K (kernel sources), but they're pretty > big, and will chew most of your disk. > You could also use the zipslack install as the base. It is designed to install on a 100MB zip disk. Joseph Key _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Nov 14 09:44:02 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B3@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Yes...up to slack....i think 9.0 it will install and run on everything from a 386 on up... Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:28 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input LOLROF I've been converted, halaluia, praise the Slack! I'm not kidding! Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? I'm not kidding. Adam Maloney wrote: >I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not >just use it. > >I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and >cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or >two. > >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. > >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at >no cost? > >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, >either way - VERY BAD. > >And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? > >I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. > >On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > > >>I will second this recommendation >>I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret --upgrade' >>Quick painless and easy to use >> >>Dan Lansing >>ITSC >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input >> >>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 >>"PHPTOm" wrote: >> >> >> >>>I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro >>>is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I >>>should probably stay with redhat. >>> >>>My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not >>>underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? >>> >>> >>> >>My recommendation: >> >>Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. >> >>As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: >> >>#upgradepkg packagename.tgz >> >>Does it for you... >> >>I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. >> >>I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... >> >> >> > >Adam Maloney >Systems Administrator >Sihope Communications > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Nov 14 09:54:09 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031114155409.GB23070@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 09:27:50AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? > Some distros may give you problems if you lack a math coprocessor on that machine. I know Debian will Treat You Right, not sure about others. I'd bet anyone a beer that Slack would be OK, but I've had problems with Red Hat in that regard ('way back in the 6.x days). -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Fri Nov 14 09:43:56 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031114094356.4128c329.sfertch@real-time.com> This has got to be the best response I've seen on this list for a long time! Thanks for the laugh Adam! On a side note, I just noticed that my e-mail is bouncing to the list... WTF??? Something else to look into. =( On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:47:58 -0600 Adam Maloney wrote: > I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not > just use it. > > I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and > cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing > or two. > > A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is > THE DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check > the archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of > temptation, promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all > LIES made up by the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was > the last time Debian got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT > DOESN'T. On the other hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you > WILL like it. It will make you rich. It will make you more appealing > to the opposite sex. > > Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 > instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth > nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at > no cost? > > If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing > you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm > with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, > either way - VERY BAD. > > And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? > > I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Nov 14 10:02:54 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] trouble with CPAN Message-ID: Tim, Use the CPAN module to install the missing modules yourself: perl -MCPAN -e shell and follow the prompts to configure the CPAN module, and when configuration is complete, use this command at the prompt: install Params::Validate If you've used (and so configured) the CPAN module before you can just do this: perl -MCPAN -e 'install Params::Validate' and then rerun the 'rt-test-dependencies' program. Good luck, Troy >>> wilson@visi.com 11/14/03 08:57AM >>> Attention Perl Monks: I'm trying to install some Perl modules using CPAN. (I don't know much about Perl or CPAN unforutnately.) I'm getting the following error message when I try to use this program to install the dependencies necessary to run the RT issue tracking software that I asked the list about recently: [root@forums rt-3-0-6]# perl sbin/rt-test-dependencies --with-postgres --with-modperl1 --install perl: 5.8.0...found MASON dependencies: Params::Validate 0.02...MISSING CPAN: Storable loaded ok Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz: not in gzip format Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz: not in gzip format Warning: Your /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz does not contain a Line-Count header. Please check the validity of the index file by comparing it to more than one CPAN mirror. I'll continue but problems seem likely to happen. Warning: Your /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz does not contain a Last-Updated header. Please check the validity of the index file by comparing it to more than one CPAN mirror. I'll continue but problems seem likely to happen. Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz: not in gzip format Is it possible that whatever external program that is being used to download these files is doing the gunzip on the fly and messing up the perl script that is expecting a .gz file? Any other suggestions? -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Nov 14 09:44:26 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B4@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> I'm not sure if I should laugh or run like hell :P Dan Lansing ITSC -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:48 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] I need distribution input I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not just use it. I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or two. A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at no cost? If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, either way - VERY BAD. And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > I will second this recommendation > I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret --upgrade' > Quick painless and easy to use > > Dan Lansing > ITSC > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 > "PHPTOm" wrote: > > > I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro > > is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I > > should probably stay with redhat. > > > > My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not > > underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > > > > My recommendation: > > Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. > > As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty simple: > > #upgradepkg packagename.tgz > > Does it for you... > > I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty fast. > > I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... > Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Fri Nov 14 09:57:54 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <3FB4FB82.10500@lorenburlingame.com> Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > > Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also > looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - thinking about > gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... > I moved from Slack to Gentoo a few months ago and I absolutely am taken with it. The only problem I have had with is sometimes finding ebuilds for bleeding edge packages (like Mozilla Thunderbird). whereas the solution on slack was always to just compile from CVS and not have to worry about a package system to fsck up. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Nov 14 10:01:25 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] trouble with CPAN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031114160125.GA23911@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 08:57:06AM -0600, Tim Wilson wrote: > I'm trying to install some Perl modules using CPAN. (I don't know much > about Perl or CPAN unforutnately.) I'm getting the following error > message when I try to use this program to install the dependencies > necessary to run the RT issue tracking software that I asked the list > about recently: > > [root@forums rt-3-0-6]# perl sbin/rt-test-dependencies --with-postgres > --with-modperl1 --install > perl: > 5.8.0...found > MASON dependencies: > Params::Validate 0.02...MISSING > CPAN: Storable loaded ok > Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz > > gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz: not in gzip format > Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz > > gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz: not in > gzip format > Warning: Your /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz > does not contain a Line-Count header. > Please check the validity of the index file by comparing it to more > than one CPAN mirror. I'll continue but problems seem likely to > happen. > Warning: Your /root/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz > does not contain a Last-Updated header. > Please check the validity of the index file by comparing it to more > than one CPAN mirror. I'll continue but problems seem likely to > happen. > Going to read /root/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz > > gzip: /root/.cpan/sources/modules/03modlist.data.gz: not in gzip format > > Is it possible that whatever external program that is being used to > download these files is doing the gunzip on the fly and messing up the > perl script that is expecting a .gz file? Any other suggestions? > Have you done anything with CPAN yet? If not, then the package files won't be there. What does 'ls -lR /root/.cpan/sources/' say? If they're missing, you can do: # perl -MCPAN -e shell to set up your CPAN module. That might download them. 'perldoc CPAN' for gory details. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Nov 14 10:04:16 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:27:50 -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > LOLROF > > I've been converted, halaluia, praise the Slack! > > I'm not kidding! > > Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? > I'd be interested to hear what happened with you and Deb....Debian that is... I've been hemming and hawing over slack and deb for sometime... I finally threw up my hands for gentoo... This weekend I'm going for gentoo on my laptop - it'll have Gentoo, Redhat, and win2k - hopefully! > I'm not kidding. > > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > >> I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not >> just use it. >> >> I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and >> cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or >> two. >> >> A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE >> DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the >> archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, >> promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by >> the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian >> got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other >> hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will >> make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. >> >> Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 >> instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth >> nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at >> no cost? >> >> If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing >> you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm >> with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, >> either way - VERY BAD. >> >> And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? >> >> I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. >> >> On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: >> >>> I will second this recommendation >>> I have found this to be an easier set up and install than >>> windows...auto detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with >>> new packages such as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret >>> --update &&swaret --upgrade' >>> Quick painless and easy to use >>> >>> Dan Lansing >>> ITSC >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn >>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM >>> To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input >>> >>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 >>> "PHPTOm" wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro >>>> is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I >>>> should probably stay with redhat. >>>> >>>> My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not >>>> underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? >>>> >>>> >>> My recommendation: >>> >>> Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of >>> tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake >>> does. But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and >>> learn more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. >>> >>> As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to >>> that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and >>> Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's >>> pretty simple: >>> >>> #upgradepkg packagename.tgz Does it for you... >>> >>> I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, >>> and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is >>> plenty fast. >>> >>> I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... >>> >>> >> >> Adam Maloney >> Systems Administrator >> Sihope Communications >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Nov 14 10:21:42 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: MozillaFirebird (was RE: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone?) In-Reply-To: <3FB4FB82.10500@lorenburlingame.com> Message-ID: You can't find MozillaThunderbird packages anymore because they had to rename it to MozillaFirebird. Try an emerge -s firebird (or mozilla, I suppose) and you should pick it up. John > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Loren > H. Burlingame > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:58 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? > > > Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > > > > > > Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also > > looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - > thinking about > > gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... > > > > > I moved from Slack to Gentoo a few months ago and I > absolutely am taken > with it. > > The only problem I have had with is sometimes finding ebuilds for > bleeding edge packages (like Mozilla Thunderbird). > > whereas the solution on slack was always to just compile from CVS and > not have to worry about a package system to fsck up. > > LB > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Phillip.J.Crump at wellsfargo.com Fri Nov 14 11:02:36 2003 From: Phillip.J.Crump at wellsfargo.com (Phillip.J.Crump@wellsfargo.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs Message-ID: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com> Bugzilla.. crisp and clean w/ no caffeine -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Tim Wilson Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:13 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs Hi everyone, I'm going to be setting up an "issue tracking" system on a Linux system soon and I wonder if any of you would be willing to share any experiences. I've done a lot of googling and looking at various Web sites. I've found a couple packages that run on top of Zope, some PHP, and one Java-based one. Any of those platforms is fine with me. As long as they support MySQL or Postgres I don't really care about the db backend. The goal is to implement a system where technical support people from various schools in the district where I work can add items to a queue and assign responsibility for repairs. Ease of use is a plus since many of the people who may use the system aren't necessarily very geeky. (Odd, I know.) One program I looked at (http:/helpdesk.oneorzero.com/) allowed people to submit "tickets" without having a login. This would allow teachers to add items without the extra hassle of managing another set of passwords. We can put it on a password-protected intranet to prevent virtual passersby from adding anything. I'm not opposed to spending some money for such a beast, but at this point the entire concept is pretty new to almost everyone and I don't want to shell out big bucks for a system that doesn't get used much. So free/open source would be a plus at this stage and would have the added benefit of helping me push the FOSS concept more. Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Fri Nov 14 12:26:40 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] trouble with CPAN In-Reply-To: <20031114160125.GA23911@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031114160125.GA23911@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <17615456-16D0-11D8-8955-000A95A50472@visi.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:01 AM, John J. Trammell wrote: > Have you done anything with CPAN yet? If not, then the package files > won't be there. What does 'ls -lR /root/.cpan/sources/' say? > > If they're missing, you can do: > > # perl -MCPAN -e shell > > to set up your CPAN module. That might download them. > > 'perldoc CPAN' for gory details. I should have mentioned that I'd already gone through the CPAN config process. Sorry. The CPAN initialization appeared to run without incident. I'm also unable to install individual CPAN packages ? la perl -MCPAN -e 'install Params::Validate' Still stuck. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Fri Nov 14 12:25:33 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com> References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com> Message-ID: <16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Phillip" == Phillip J Crump writes: Phillip> Bugzilla.. crisp and clean w/ no caffeine I can't really agree with this recommendation. Bugzilla is very heavyweight and has a zillion fields, most of which you probably won't want for a smaller project. Or for end users. Sadly, that said, I don't have a better recommendation. We dumped Bugzilla, but haven't found anything else. :-( R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Nov 14 12:41:26 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: MozillaFirebird (was RE: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB521D6.9090909@eworld3.net> www.mozilla.org seems to say that they are two different things: Mozilla Firebird 0.7 - Our next generation browser is lightning fast in every way Mozilla Thunderbird 0.3 - An email and newsgroup client with powerful, new junk mail controls John T. Hoffoss wrote: > You can't find MozillaThunderbird packages anymore because they had to > rename it to MozillaFirebird. > > Try an emerge -s firebird (or mozilla, I suppose) and you should pick it > up. > > John > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Loren >>H. Burlingame >>Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:58 AM >>To: TCLUG Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? >> >> >>Johnny Fulcrum wrote: >> >> >>> >>>Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also >>>looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - >> >>thinking about >> >>>gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... >>> >> >> >>I moved from Slack to Gentoo a few months ago and I >>absolutely am taken >>with it. >> >>The only problem I have had with is sometimes finding ebuilds for >>bleeding edge packages (like Mozilla Thunderbird). >> >>whereas the solution on slack was always to just compile from CVS and >>not have to worry about a package system to fsck up. >> >>LB >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Fri Nov 14 12:44:29 2003 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: MozillaFirebird (was RE: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input- gentoo anyone?) In-Reply-To: <3FB521D6.9090909@eworld3.net> Message-ID: Oh, d'oh. That's my bad, I was thinking of Phoenix vs. Firebird, which is what was renamed. Sorry... > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Rick Meyerhoff > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 12:41 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: MozillaFirebird (was RE: [TCLUG] I also need > distribution input- gentoo anyone?) > > > www.mozilla.org seems to say that they are two different > things: Mozilla Firebird 0.7 - Our next generation browser is > lightning fast in every way > Mozilla Thunderbird 0.3 - An email and newsgroup client > with powerful, new junk mail controls > > John T. Hoffoss wrote: > > You can't find MozillaThunderbird packages anymore because > they had to > > rename it to MozillaFirebird. > > > > Try an emerge -s firebird (or mozilla, I suppose) and you > should pick > > it up. > > > > John > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > >>[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Loren > >>H. Burlingame > >>Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:58 AM > >>To: TCLUG Mailing List > >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? > >> > >> > >>Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > >> > >> > >>> > >>>Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat > and am also > >>>looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - > >> > >>thinking about > >> > >>>gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... > >>> > >> > >> > >>I moved from Slack to Gentoo a few months ago and I > >>absolutely am taken > >>with it. > >> > >>The only problem I have had with is sometimes finding ebuilds for > >>bleeding edge packages (like Mozilla Thunderbird). > >> > >>whereas the solution on slack was always to just compile > from CVS and > >>not have to worry about a package system to fsck up. > >> > >>LB > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > rick@eworld3.net > 952-929-1659 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Nov 14 12:54:59 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] trouble with CPAN Message-ID: I think that the requirement checker probably uses the CPAN module, so if you can't use the CPAN module, it won't work either. What kind of error messages do you get when doing (as root) the command: $ perl -MCPAN -e shell and at the 'cpan' prompt enter: cpan> install Params::Validate there should be something there that might help solve the mystery. >>> wilson@visi.com 11/14/03 12:26PM >>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:01 AM, John J. Trammell wrote: > Have you done anything with CPAN yet? If not, then the package files > won't be there. What does 'ls -lR /root/.cpan/sources/' say? > If they're missing, you can do: > # perl -MCPAN -e shell > to set up your CPAN module. That might download them. > 'perldoc CPAN' for gory details. I should have mentioned that I'd already gone through the CPAN config process. Sorry. The CPAN initialization appeared to run without incident. I'm also unable to install individual CPAN packages ? la perl -MCPAN -e 'install Params::Validate' _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Fri Nov 14 13:09:37 2003 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups Message-ID: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging cups? I have a Samsung printer and I find that cups bogs down depressingly often. Everything just goes to sleep in the middle of a print job, often after printing just the first page. But then, when I restart cups (this is Mandrake, so it's /etc/rc.d/init.d/cups restart), everything comes back. I was just hoping someone might be able to suggest where to begin. I.e., should I look for some common factor in the ps that's going to the printer? Is there some way to tell what state the system's in when it bogs (there's no visible data interchange with the printer; there are entries still in the queue)? I'm willing to work at it; I just don't know where to start. thanks! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Fri Nov 14 13:26:52 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <3FB52C7C.6090205@igi.com> HAHAHA Thats awesome. I use Debian on all of my workstations, laptops, servers, and even my MythTV box in the living room is Debian. If you ripped open my chest you would probably see a beating red swirl. Adam Maloney wrote: >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. > >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at >no cost? > >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, >either way - VERY BAD. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Fri Nov 14 14:02:33 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <1068821276.11782.56.camel@unixws1> <3FB4F476.4050300@visi.com> Message-ID: <200311141402.33848.bmaas@open-techsys.com> I'm not sure about 9.0, as I switched to Gentoo late last year. However, I'm confident that older Slack installs will work like a champ. If you need it bad I've got several old sets of Slackware. My first one is based around the 0.96 Linux kernel if that gives you any feel how long I've been using Slackware :-) As for the distro choice. I'd recommend both Slackware and Gentoo for anyone who wants to get familier with how Linux really works. Gentoo is the best tweaker's distro right now IMHO. Basically, if you want to compile (think optimize) your entire system yourself go with Gentoo. If you'd rather just download binary packages, use Slackware. Both are rock solid if administered correctly (don't expect things to be stable if you install a bunch of alpha packages). On Friday 14 November 2003 09:27 am, Sam MacDonald wrote: > LOLROF > > I've been converted, halaluia, praise the Slack! > > I'm not kidding! > > Will Slack install on a 486sx 25mhz with 20mb of ram and 200mb disk? > > I'm not kidding. > > Adam Maloney wrote: > >I'll third it (is that allowed?) /IF/ you want to learn Linux, and not > >just use it. > > > >I used slackware for years. I found the install to be easier and > >cleaner than Redhat's. Slack really does force you to learn a thing or > >two. > > > >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE > >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the > >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, > >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by > >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian > >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other > >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will > >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. > > > >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 > >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth > >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at > >no cost? > > > >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing > >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm > >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, > >either way - VERY BAD. > > > >And can you believe that they think I'm a Slackware bigot? > > > >I gotta go - I think our building is on fire. > > > >On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 08:05, Lansing, Dan wrote: > >>I will second this recommendation > >>I have found this to be an easier set up and install than windows...auto > >> detected all of my hardware except my gforceFX...with new packages such > >> as swaret, system updates are as easy as 'swaret --update &&swaret > >> --upgrade' Quick painless and easy to use > >> > >>Dan Lansing > >>ITSC > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Sent: > >> Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:36 PM > >>To: TCLUG Mailing List > >>Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input > >> > >>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:27:34 -0600 > >> > >>"PHPTOm" wrote: > >>>I am still a beginner as far as linux is concerned. If a new distro > >>>is going to require hours and hours of troubleshooting/updating, I > >>>should probably stay with redhat. > >>> > >>>My obtuse question is this: what is a solid distro that is not > >>>underneath a huge corporation like redhat is that a beginner can use? > >> > >>My recommendation: > >> > >>Slackware. Good, solid distribution. Requires a fair amount of > >> tweaking, and doesn't auto-detect like RedHat, Suse, or Mandrake does. > >> But, on the other hand it's a great way to cut your teeth, and learn > >> more about Linux. Pretty simple install to. > >> > >>As to searching for security updates, and recompiling the solution to > >> that is fairly simple. Subscribe to the Slack-Announce and > >> Slack-Security mailing lists. Then, to upgrade the package it's pretty > >> simple: > >> > >>#upgradepkg packagename.tgz > >> > >>Does it for you... > >> > >>I've got it running on a relatively new system: P4 2.53GHz, 1 GB Ram, > >> and a GeForce4 ti4200 128MB video card. Works just fine, and is plenty > >> fast. > >> > >>I'll even make a copy of the 9.1 distro discs for you if you want... > > > >Adam Maloney > >Systems Administrator > >Sihope Communications > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Fri Nov 14 14:05:53 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history In-Reply-To: <20031114043724.GA6323@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> <20031114043724.GA6323@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <1068840353.3062.544.camel@lotsa> On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 22:37, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:34:06PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am > > supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think > > of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? > > > > Just for kicks, what does chkrootkit say? On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 22:32, rware@interplastic.com wrote: > You were playing with rm and * ;) I indeed was using rm -i ./* in a completely different directory. I thought I contained my deletion to the files I intended to delete. I did download and run chrootkit which did not find anything. I did not not boot the machine clean though, I just ran it. I also have been running tripwire on this machine for over a year. Tripwire finds nothing. I did find out that a software developer does have root access to this machine, and he did su. I do completely trust this person (should I?) and he does have every right to be root on this machine and a legitimate need. I did not realize he wrote down the password I gave him months ago. He claims he did nothing to the history. Can anyone think of a way I or my colleague could have inadvertently cleared the history? I know history -c will do the job but I don't see how that could be done by mistake. Maybe I'm being too paranoid but it bothers me. If someone is good enough root this box and to hide it from both chkrootkit and tripwire you would think they would have just deleted the the incriminating lines from the history so they would not be discovered. - Tom -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Fri Nov 14 14:23:27 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RH9 - Partitioning drives during install In-Reply-To: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> References: <3FB3D799.7010307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1068841406.27576.7.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 14 14:56:37 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: MozillaFirebird (was RE: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone?) In-Reply-To: <3FB521D6.9090909@eworld3.net> References: <3FB521D6.9090909@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FB54185.7090605@visi.com> Yup, I've been using Thunderbird for about 6 months now and Love it! I haven't looked at Firebird but will soon. Sam. Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > www.mozilla.org seems to say that they are two different things: > Mozilla Firebird 0.7 - Our next generation browser is > lightning fast in every way > Mozilla Thunderbird 0.3 - An email and newsgroup client > with powerful, new junk mail controls > > John T. Hoffoss wrote: > >> You can't find MozillaThunderbird packages anymore because they had to >> rename it to MozillaFirebird. >> >> Try an emerge -s firebird (or mozilla, I suppose) and you should pick it >> up. >> >> John >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Loren H. >>> Burlingame >>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:58 AM >>> To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? >>> >>> >>> Johnny Fulcrum wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also >>>> looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - >>> >>> >>> thinking about >>> >>>> gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... >>>> >>> >>> >>> I moved from Slack to Gentoo a few months ago and I absolutely am >>> taken with it. >>> >>> The only problem I have had with is sometimes finding ebuilds for >>> bleeding edge packages (like Mozilla Thunderbird). >>> >>> whereas the solution on slack was always to just compile from CVS >>> and not have to worry about a package system to fsck up. >>> >>> LB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at askewview.net Fri Nov 14 15:33:57 2003 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <3FB54A45.3060307@askewview.net> Gentoo is by far the best linux distro I've used. It takes a while to install from stage 1 but everything cam be compiled for you specific processor if you edit /etc/make.conf file. Also just a little tip for anyone using gentoo. Seren Innovations provides a local gentoo mirror out of Minneapolis. To use it just add the following lines to the bottom of your /etc/make.conf file GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://gentoo.seren.com/gentoo/" SYNC="rsync://gentoo.seren.com/gentoo-portage" I'm running gentoo on my webserver here at home. I'm hosting only a couple of domains and email. The startup times are much much better than it was with redhat and everything seems to run better. -Adam Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > > > Anyone have anything to say about Gentoo? I have redhat and am also > looking to switch - I have slack and debian downloaded - thinking > about gentoo also but don't know much about it yet... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Fri Nov 14 15:40:30 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history References: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa><20031114043724.GA6323@mail.el-swifto.com> <1068840353.3062.544.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <019001c3aaf7$f0a69980$0300000a@net.tsinks> I'm not sure how much has transpired in this thread. Have you looked at your backup for the system? The su has history. (sudo) check login.defs for info - if none you may need to set up. The logins within the user have history. There are also the system logs which may give a clue to this. /var/log and other places, older versions adm. Also check in /etc and if you use gnome or kde they have logs. Thanks, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Penney" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] root bash history > On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 22:37, John J. Trammell wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:34:06PM -0600, Tom Penney wrote: > > > I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am > > > supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think > > > of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? > > > > > > > Just for kicks, what does chkrootkit say? > > On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 22:32, rware@interplastic.com wrote: > > You were playing with rm and * ;) > > I indeed was using rm -i ./* in a completely different directory. I > thought I contained my deletion to the files I intended to delete. > > I did download and run chrootkit which did not find anything. I did not > not boot the machine clean though, I just ran it. > > I also have been running tripwire on this machine for over a year. > Tripwire finds nothing. > > I did find out that a software developer does have root access to this > machine, and he did su. I do completely trust this person (should I?) > and he does have every right to be root on this machine and a legitimate > need. I did not realize he wrote down the password I gave him > months ago. He claims he did nothing to the history. > > Can anyone think of a way I or my colleague could have inadvertently > cleared the history? I know history -c will do the job but I don't see > how that could be done by mistake. > > Maybe I'm being too paranoid but it bothers me. If someone is good > enough root this box and to hide it from both chkrootkit and tripwire > you would think they would have just deleted the the incriminating lines > from the history so they would not be discovered. > > - Tom > > > -- > Tom Penney > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From myok at ogzr.org Fri Nov 14 20:29:53 2003 From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com> <16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1068863393.1138.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> I've had good luck using Roundup in a fairly intense environment. It is very customizable and easy to set up, even if you don't know python. I like how it is based on usability. http://roundup.sourceforge.net/ -- Carl Patten On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 12:25, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >>>>> "Phillip" == Phillip J Crump writes: > > Phillip> Bugzilla.. crisp and clean w/ no caffeine > > I can't really agree with this recommendation. Bugzilla is very > heavyweight and has a zillion fields, most of which you probably won't > want for a smaller project. Or for end users. > > Sadly, that said, I don't have a better recommendation. We dumped > Bugzilla, but haven't found anything else. :-( > > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Carl Patten _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Fri Nov 14 21:00:21 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com><16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1068863393.1138.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> Message-ID: <01b101c3ab24$9f5c3b20$0300000a@net.tsinks> And the corn grows better! Keep looking up, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Patten" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:29 PM Subject: RE: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs > I've had good luck using Roundup in a fairly intense environment. It is > very customizable and easy to set up, even if you don't know python. I > like how it is based on usability. > > http://roundup.sourceforge.net/ > > -- > Carl Patten > > > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 12:25, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > >>>>> "Phillip" == Phillip J Crump writes: > > > > Phillip> Bugzilla.. crisp and clean w/ no caffeine > > > > I can't really agree with this recommendation. Bugzilla is very > > heavyweight and has a zillion fields, most of which you probably won't > > want for a smaller project. Or for end users. > > > > Sadly, that said, I don't have a better recommendation. We dumped > > Bugzilla, but haven't found anything else. :-( > > > > R > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- > Carl Patten > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 15 05:59:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs In-Reply-To: <01b101c3ab24$9f5c3b20$0300000a@net.tsinks> References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com><16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1068863393.1138.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net> <01b101c3ab24$9f5c3b20$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <3FB61523.1080007@visi.com> Not to be picky but, well, roundup is a herbicide not a fertilizer. I'm showing my country roots now. Don't spray it on anything living that you want to live. If you want to kill weeds it's great but apply it directly to each weed or say good by to your lawn. Sam Tim Sinks wrote: >And the corn grows better! > >Keep looking up, >Tim >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carl Patten" >To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 8:29 PM >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] [Slightly OT] Recommended issue tracking programs > > > > >>I've had good luck using Roundup in a fairly intense environment. It is >>very customizable and easy to set up, even if you don't know python. I >>like how it is based on usability. >> >>http://roundup.sourceforge.net/ >> >>-- >>Carl Patten >> >> >>On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 12:25, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>"Phillip" == Phillip J Crump >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >writes: > > >>> Phillip> Bugzilla.. crisp and clean w/ no caffeine >>> >>>I can't really agree with this recommendation. Bugzilla is very >>>heavyweight and has a zillion fields, most of which you probably won't >>>want for a smaller project. Or for end users. >>> >>>Sadly, that said, I don't have a better recommendation. We dumped >>>Bugzilla, but haven't found anything else. :-( >>> >>>R >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>-- >>Carl Patten >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonandmissy at cableone.net Sat Nov 15 11:06:15 2003 From: jasonandmissy at cableone.net (Jason Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic os X References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com><16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1068863393.1138.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net><01b101c3ab24$9f5c3b20$0300000a@net.tsinks> <3FB61523.1080007@visi.com> Message-ID: <007401c3ab9a$c76cdea0$0600a8c0@larvpn> I am looking for the Apple X11 binary for XFree 86. Seems since 10.3 release the public beta version 3 is no longer downloadable. Thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Sat Nov 15 12:41:59 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual-Head and Fedora Message-ID: <1068921719.8918.2.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Has anybody enabled dual-head for Fedora Core 1? I tried enabling it and one screen flickers horribly to the point of being unusable. Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Nov 15 13:47:57 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic os X References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com><16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1068863393.1138.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net><01b101c3ab24$9f5c3b20$0300000a@net.tsinks><3FB61523.1080007@visi.com> <007401c3ab9a$c76cdea0$0600a8c0@larvpn> Message-ID: <037d01c3abb1$5dfe64e0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Jason Larson writes: > I am looking for the Apple X11 binary for XFree 86. Seems since 10.3 > release the public beta version 3 is no longer downloadable. Upgrade to Panther or download it here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonandmissy at cableone.net Sat Nov 15 13:03:57 2003 From: jasonandmissy at cableone.net (Jason Larson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off Topic os X References: <4A93D88D7DFDB641B01C6973341A71ED014E9F@msgsc55mnmsp23.wellsfargo.com><16309.7709.575216.790783@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1068863393.1138.2.camel@herbie.doomnode.net><01b101c3ab24$9f5c3b20$0300000a@net.tsinks><3FB61523.1080007@visi.com><007401c3ab9a$c76cdea0$0600a8c0@larvpn> <037d01c3abb1$5dfe64e0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <007e01c3abab$38abb400$0600a8c0@larvpn> That download does not work with 10.2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Phillips" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Off Topic os X > Jason Larson writes: > > I am looking for the Apple X11 binary for XFree 86. Seems since 10.3 > > release the public beta version 3 is no longer downloadable. > > Upgrade to Panther or download it here: > > http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/ > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Nov 15 16:25:56 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual-Head and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1068921719.8918.2.camel@ix.norsemen.org> References: <1068921719.8918.2.camel@ix.norsemen.org> Message-ID: <1068935155.27576.10.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Sat Nov 15 17:22:08 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual-Head and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1068935155.27576.10.camel@bigtime> References: <1068921719.8918.2.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <1068935155.27576.10.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3300.192.168.70.42.1068938528.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I've been running dual monitors for a couple of years with Windows 2000, and more recently RedHat 9. They don't interfere with each other. Perry, sounds like you have either or both HorizSync and VertRefresh set incorrectly in your XFX86Config file. Especially. if the monitors are different makes and models, make sure that your have the correct settings for each monitor in your XFX86Config file. Jim > On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 12:41, Perry Hoekstra wrote: >> Has anybody enabled dual-head for Fedora Core 1? I tried enabling it >> and one screen flickers horribly to the point of being unusable. > > Note: side by side monitors will interfere with each other. Does it go > away if you turn the other monitor off? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dutchman_mn at charter.net Sat Nov 15 17:25:59 2003 From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dual-Head and Fedora In-Reply-To: <1068935155.27576.10.camel@bigtime> References: <1068921719.8918.2.camel@ix.norsemen.org> <1068935155.27576.10.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <1068938758.2994.3.camel@ix.norsemen.org> On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 16:25, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 12:41, Perry Hoekstra wrote: > > Has anybody enabled dual-head for Fedora Core 1? I tried enabling it > > and one screen flickers horribly to the point of being unusable. > > Note: side by side monitors will interfere with each other. Does it go > away if you turn the other monitor off? > > ______________________________________________________________________ Yes, that seemed to resolve the issue. Now, how do you use it? I know how it works under Win2K but not under X. I have it set up for individual desktops. Is a separate Alt-F* to toggle the screens? I tried googling for a how-to but did not find any information Perry Hoekstra _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Sat Nov 15 18:16:29 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Swap an ext3 formatted HD with another box Message-ID: Hey all, I have to wipe redhat off an old computer... we're giving it to a friend for christmas. I recently installed a 9 gig hard drive in it and formatted it as ext3. I am going to put redhat on a slightly newer computer I just got. Can I just back up all my stuff onto that 9 gig hd and plug it into my new redhat box once it's set up? I assume I can but I don't know a ton about hardware. I just want to be somewhat sure that I can drop everything onto the 9 gig and be able to just mount it later. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 15 20:23:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Swap an ext3 formatted HD with another box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB6DFB1.9060602@visi.com> Where do I start.... If it's a data drive you should be able to plug it in turn it on and mount it, if it's just data or packages or stuff that's portable. If you want to move a bootable/system drive to another machine and use it as a bootable/system drive you _may_ have a problem if any of the hardware is different. Even M$ OS's have issues when moved from one machine to another. I've done this with M$ OS's with mixed results, some even ran solid for 6 months before burning up like space junk entering the atmosphere. Just my 2 bits. Sam. PHPTOm wrote: >Hey all, > >I have to wipe redhat off an old computer... we're giving it to a friend for >christmas. > >I recently installed a 9 gig hard drive in it and formatted it as ext3. I >am going to put redhat on a slightly newer computer I just got. Can I just >back up all my stuff onto that 9 gig hd and plug it into my new redhat box >once it's set up? I assume I can but I don't know a ton about hardware. I >just want to be somewhat sure that I can drop everything onto the 9 gig and >be able to just mount it later. > >TOm > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 19:01:53 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: <3FB54A45.3060307@askewview.net> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <3FB54A45.3060307@askewview.net> Message-ID: <20031114190153.36c27163.william.layer@comcast.net> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:33:57 -0600 Adam wrote: > Gentoo is by far the best linux distro I've used. It takes a while to > install from stage 1 but everything cam be compiled for you specific > processor if you edit /etc/make.conf file. Have you ever tried benchmarking the locally compiled Gentoo binaries against generic i386 binaries? -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Thu Nov 13 22:43:12 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] root bash history In-Reply-To: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> References: <1068777246.3062.429.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: <20031113224312.58bc812d.william.layer@comcast.net> On 13 Nov 2003 20:34:06 -0600 Tom Penney wrote: > I just noticed that the .bash_history file is gone on a box that I am > supposedly the only one with root access. RedHat 7.2. Can anyone think > of a legitimate reason why the history might vanish? Unless root's ~/.bash_logout contains a line to rm or otherwise modify the .bash_history, the possibilities are few. A bad shutdown, at a time the file was open for writing could potentially have caused its loss.. but otherwise, the obvious conclusion is that *someone* ran as root, did some work, and decided to try to cover their tracks in a simplemided fashion. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Sun Nov 16 01:05:04 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] trouble with CPAN In-Reply-To: <17615456-16D0-11D8-8955-000A95A50472@visi.com> References: <20031114160125.GA23911@mail.el-swifto.com> <17615456-16D0-11D8-8955-000A95A50472@visi.com> Message-ID: <200311160105.04463@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Friday 14 November 2003 12:26 pm, Tim Wilson wrote: > I should have mentioned that I'd already gone through the CPAN config > process. Sorry. The CPAN initialization appeared to run without > incident. I'm also unable to install individual CPAN packages ? la perl > -MCPAN -e 'install Params::Validate' What distro? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Sun Nov 16 01:02:53 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Local OSS Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> References: <20031113181522.GA17921@therub.org> Message-ID: <200311160102.53424@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Thursday 13 November 2003 12:15 pm, Dan Rue wrote: > Hey Gang, > Thanks for the mutt help yesterday. > > I'm curious to know if any of you are currently contributing to any open > source projects? I would like to get involved in something, but I would > like it to be somewhat local, so that I could actually meet the people > that I would be working with. > > So, anyone around here looking for a hand? Something interesting? > Need.. to.. do.. something.. useful.. with.. my.. mad.. skillz.. > dan http://crossfire.real-time.com http://www.netrek.org http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at askewview.net Sun Nov 16 01:41:25 2003 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: <20031114190153.36c27163.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <3FB54A45.3060307@askewview.net> <20031114190153.36c27163.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FB72A25.20803@askewview.net> Not as of yet no Bill Layer wrote: > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:33:57 -0600 > Adam wrote: > > >>Gentoo is by far the best linux distro I've used. It takes a while to >>install from stage 1 but everything cam be compiled for you specific >>processor if you edit /etc/make.conf file. > > > Have you ever tried benchmarking the locally compiled Gentoo binaries against generic i386 binaries? > > -L > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 16 02:23:44 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I also need distribution input - gentoo anyone? In-Reply-To: <3FB72A25.20803@askewview.net> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37B1@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> <3FB54A45.3060307@askewview.net> <20031114190153.36c27163.william.layer@comcast.net> <3FB72A25.20803@askewview.net> Message-ID: <20031116082344.GK21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 01:41:25AM -0600, Adam wrote: > Not as of yet no Others have, it's slower. gcc is not a good optimizing compiler, even for x86. This is what killed my interest in gentoo. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Nov 16 06:54:23 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net> Robert P. Goldman wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging cups? I have a If the cups are made of glass, I look for cracks. If a glass cup is cracked you should recycle it! ;-) Call me a smart a$$. > Samsung printer and I find that cups bogs down depressingly often. What do you mean by "bogs down"? Please be more specific. > Everything just goes to sleep in the middle of a print job, often Ditto for "goes to sleep". > after printing just the first page. But then, when I restart cups > (this is Mandrake, so it's /etc/rc.d/init.d/cups restart), everything > comes back. Ditto for "comes back". CUPS has a web interface which may be more useful and provide more info. > > I was just hoping someone might be able to suggest where to begin. > I.e., should I look for some common factor in the ps that's going to > the printer? Is there some way to tell what state the system's in If cups "bogs down" on certain documents but not others then I might suspect postscript. I sorta doubt it's a postscript problem though. > when it bogs (there's no visible data interchange with the printer; > there are entries still in the queue)? I'm willing to work at it; I > just don't know where to start. The 'top' command might tell you who's busy. We also need to know more about your set up: what kind of printer is it? is it connected to a computer or right on the network? do you have machines with multiple OS's accessing the printer? do they all behave the same? -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Nov 16 07:37:51 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Swap an ext3 formatted HD with another box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB77DAF.5000701@eworld3.net> If I understand correctly, what you want to do is: 1.starting with: I. an "old computer" with 2 HDs: - the boot HD that has RH installed & your data - a clean ext3 formatted 9G HD II. a "newer computer" with RH installed on the boot HD and plenty of space for your data 2. on the "OC", transfer data to 9G HD (maybe using cp -p) 3. install 9G HD to new computer Sam is right, you must be careful if you are transferring system files. It's not a big deal, but if you are not planning on doing that then there is no reason to go into it here. I don't see any problem, except that I may not understand what you are planning. I assume that you will put Linux on the computer that you are giving away. I suggest Mandrake 9.x! Please don't say Windoze. PHPTOm wrote: > Hey all, > > I have to wipe redhat off an old computer... we're giving it to a friend for > christmas. > > I recently installed a 9 gig hard drive in it and formatted it as ext3. I > am going to put redhat on a slightly newer computer I just got. Can I just > back up all my stuff onto that 9 gig hd and plug it into my new redhat box > once it's set up? I assume I can but I don't know a ton about hardware. I > just want to be somewhat sure that I can drop everything onto the 9 gig and > be able to just mount it later. > > TOm -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From todd at xnewbie.com Sun Nov 16 13:33:00 2003 From: todd at xnewbie.com (Todd Baker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group Message-ID: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sun Nov 16 16:01:58 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group In-Reply-To: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> References: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> Message-ID: <20031116220158.GB3797@refried.org> On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 01:33:00PM -0600, Todd Baker wrote: > Hi Group, does anybody on this list by chance have experience with > LISP? If anyone does I have a question that hopefully you could help > me out with. I've done some lisp/scheme in the past. I'm probably a little rusty but I'd give it a short. Nate P.S. Just ask a question, don't ask if you can ask it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Sun Nov 16 22:49:03 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Rick" == Rick Meyerhoff writes: Rick> Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging cups? I have a >> Samsung printer and I find that cups bogs down depressingly often. Rick> What do you mean by "bogs down"? Please be more specific. >> Everything just goes to sleep in the middle of a print job, often Rick> Ditto for "goes to sleep". I get no blinky "data" lights on the printer, and nothing comes out. >> after printing just the first page. But then, when I restart cups >> (this is Mandrake, so it's /etc/rc.d/init.d/cups restart), everything >> comes back. Rick> Ditto for "comes back". CUPS has a web interface which may be more Rick> useful and provide more info. The blinky data transmission lights come back on, and the print job resumes where it left off. This always happens on a page boundary. I.e., it finishes printing a page and then stops. >> >> I was just hoping someone might be able to suggest where to begin. >> I.e., should I look for some common factor in the ps that's going to >> the printer? Is there some way to tell what state the system's in Rick> If cups "bogs down" on certain documents but not others then Rick> I might suspect postscript. I sorta doubt it's a postscript Rick> problem though. I haven't found anything systematic... >> when it bogs (there's no visible data interchange with the printer; >> there are entries still in the queue)? I'm willing to work at it; I >> just don't know where to start. Rick> The 'top' command might tell you who's busy. We also need to Rick> know more about your set up: what kind of printer is it? is Rick> it connected to a computer or right on the network? do you Rick> have machines with multiple OS's accessing the printer? do Rick> they all behave the same? It's a Samsung ML-1210 laser printer. It's directly connected to my machine, through a parallel port. I do have machines with multiple OS's accessing the printer: one windows and a second Mandrake 9.1. They all behave the same, AFAICT. Is there any way to peer into the internal state of the printer and drivers? I have blundered around in the CUPS web interface, but didn't stumble over anything useful. But maybe I'm not using the right part fo the interface... Thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Mon Nov 17 00:18:27 2003 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net> <16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> > The blinky data transmission lights come back on, and the print job > resumes where it left off. > > This always happens on a page boundary. I.e., it finishes printing a > page and then stops. I see similar behavior on a Samsung ML-1430. The printer is physically connected to my flatmate's Windows 2000 box. When I print from my linux box the printer behaves as you've described: it prints a few pages, pauses anywhere from a few seconds to nearly a minute, then prints a few more. I assumed it was a problem with the interaction between CUPS and SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually the driver? Anyway: I'm using the Samsung ML-1220, Foomatic + gdi driver, CUPS version 1.1.19, and a Samsung ML-1430 printer. > I do have machines with multiple OS's accessing the printer: one > windows and a second Mandrake 9.1. They all behave the same, AFAICT. The printer works fine when printing from the windows box to which it is connected. So it seems that something related to CUPS is probably the culprit. -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ry4an-tclug at ry4an.org Mon Nov 17 01:19:02 2003 From: ry4an-tclug at ry4an.org (Ry4an Brase) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Digest Size Message-ID: <20031117071902.GY29626@ry4an.org> I subscribe to this list by digest as I enjoy reading the tclug banter but seldom need to chime in with any immediacy. I'd like to receive messages about 1 day. However, mailman has a setting wherein it will prematurely fire off a digest if the specified total size in bytes is reached. This seems to happen quite often with the tclug list resulting in me getting 2 or 3 digests a day on weekdays. It's completely not at all a big deal, but if no one has any objection I think this list would come closer to having an actual daily digest if the digest_member_options->digest_size_threshhold setting got moved from it's default of 30KB to something like 300KB. Anyone mind doing that? -- Ry4an Brase - http://ry4an.org /~\ 'If you're not a rebel when you're 20 you've got no heart; if \ / you're not establishment when you're 30 you've got no brain.' X Join the ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML email / \ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Mon Nov 17 07:37:34 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Swap an ext3 formatted HD with another box In-Reply-To: <3FB77DAF.5000701@eworld3.net> Message-ID: Thanks all for the feedback. > 1.starting with: > I. an "old computer" with 2 HDs: > - the boot HD that has RH installed & your data > - a clean ext3 formatted 9G HD > II. a "newer computer" with RH installed on the boot HD > and plenty of space for your data That is what I was doing. Except I was hoping to just plop the second HD into the new RH installation. In the end, I did just that. I plugged it in and mounted it right away without a single problem. Hardware stuff freaks me out. > Please don't say Windoze. yes windoze. I thought about RH, but the computer would be useless to the person if it wasn't windoze. Maybe I should dual-boot it. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Nov 17 07:40:10 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ian Stoner wrote: > more. I assumed it was a problem with the interaction between CUPS and > SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually the driver? heh... sounds to me like the printer is stopping to render add RAM, use a better PPD(hint: MacOSX ppds work great) or dont send large jobs. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 17 08:04:38 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Swap an ext3 formatted HD with another box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB8D576.1090608@visi.com> It's better to ask a question then ruin a perfectly good installation. Hardware stuff is easy once you work with it a bit. I sort of look at it this way " huh, it doesn't work, guess I have to unplug it" Generally hardware works or it doesn't, it's the software that drives the hardware that you will have issues with. You can reduce the freak-out factor by getting some old hardware and playing with it. Use some ISA hardware that requires setting jumpers and you will have a firm grasp of hardware and what it needs to function. Slap a Token ring card set to 4 mbt in a machine and turn it on connected to a 16mbt Token ring network, then you've arrived in the "I made a mistake" world of hardware ;-) Sam. PHPTOm wrote: >Thanks all for the feedback. > > > >>1.starting with: >> I. an "old computer" with 2 HDs: >> - the boot HD that has RH installed & your data >> - a clean ext3 formatted 9G HD >> II. a "newer computer" with RH installed on the boot HD >> and plenty of space for your data >> >> > >That is what I was doing. Except I was hoping to just plop the second HD >into the new RH installation. > >In the end, I did just that. I plugged it in and mounted it right away >without a single problem. Hardware stuff freaks me out. > > > > > >>Please don't say Windoze. >> >> >yes windoze. I thought about RH, but the computer would be useless to the >person if it wasn't windoze. Maybe I should dual-boot it. > >TOm > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Mon Nov 17 07:54:55 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net> <16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FB8D32F.8010208@eworld3.net> Linux/CUPS and Windoze handle printing in quite different ways so it may not be the driver. I think Linux/CUPS convert most jobs to PostScript and then to the printer's native language. That takes time and processing power but it may also take more memory. Maybe the printer's memory is being filled, then those pages are printed, then the printer seems to wait/stop/bog while it's memory gets filled up again with the next part of the job???? One reason I say this is that the "bog" always happens on a page boundary. I'm half guessing but maybe some else can use this to come up with the real answer. If you have the manual for the printer or can download it, maybe you can find out more precisely what the "blinky data transmission lights" are telling you. rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>"Rick" == Rick Meyerhoff writes: > > > Rick> Robert P. Goldman wrote: > >> Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging cups? I have a > > >> Samsung printer and I find that cups bogs down depressingly often. > > Rick> What do you mean by "bogs down"? Please be more specific. > > >> Everything just goes to sleep in the middle of a print job, often > > Rick> Ditto for "goes to sleep". > > I get no blinky "data" lights on the printer, and nothing comes out. > > >> after printing just the first page. But then, when I restart cups > >> (this is Mandrake, so it's /etc/rc.d/init.d/cups restart), everything > >> comes back. > > Rick> Ditto for "comes back". CUPS has a web interface which may be more > Rick> useful and provide more info. > > The blinky data transmission lights come back on, and the print job > resumes where it left off. > > This always happens on a page boundary. I.e., it finishes printing a > page and then stops. > > >> > >> I was just hoping someone might be able to suggest where to begin. > >> I.e., should I look for some common factor in the ps that's going to > >> the printer? Is there some way to tell what state the system's in > > Rick> If cups "bogs down" on certain documents but not others then > Rick> I might suspect postscript. I sorta doubt it's a postscript > Rick> problem though. > > I haven't found anything systematic... > > >> when it bogs (there's no visible data interchange with the printer; > >> there are entries still in the queue)? I'm willing to work at it; I > >> just don't know where to start. > > Rick> The 'top' command might tell you who's busy. We also need to > Rick> know more about your set up: what kind of printer is it? is > Rick> it connected to a computer or right on the network? do you > Rick> have machines with multiple OS's accessing the printer? do > Rick> they all behave the same? > > It's a Samsung ML-1210 laser printer. It's directly connected to my > machine, through a parallel port. > > I do have machines with multiple OS's accessing the printer: one > windows and a second Mandrake 9.1. They all behave the same, AFAICT. > > Is there any way to peer into the internal state of the printer and > drivers? I have blundered around in the CUPS web interface, but > didn't stumble over anything useful. But maybe I'm not using the > right part fo the interface... > > Thanks, > > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net 952-929-1659 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Mon Nov 17 08:03:27 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: <1068824303.11782.66.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: Originally I asked for input regarding a distro that was not "under" a major corporation. I also wanted one that required me to learn more about linux (redhat is very "easy"). I still have redhat on my main box so that I know I can keep it up. My final decision was between slask and debian. I liked debian's commitment to being totally free. I am still going to get slack and put it on another computer. This weekend, by some miracle, I successfully installed debian on an old 133 MHZ box. I feel like a 4-year-old who just took his first poop by himself. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 17 08:18:00 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB8D898.8090709@visi.com> Rendering is memory intense, postscript going to a non-postscript printer will drive you nuts sometimes. Laser printers will go insane when they don't have enough memory to process a job. Some times they spit paper out with just one line or many lines of garbage or they just hang. But this sounded like a spooler stalling, because it was fixed by restarting the spooler (cups). If the print job is coming from a windoze machine. Be sure the output is set to "Raw" this may not eliminate all stalling but it should help. Turn off the printing of any extra pages that divide print jobs. Delete any temporary files " *.tmp " in the "Temp" directory (c:\windows\temp or c:\temp). Don't use the wonderful drag and drop feature on a windows machine to print, sometimes the application hangs the print job after several pages. Extend the time-out of the print spooler is another option. Turn the printer off and on once in a while, nothing like a cold boot. Sam. Munir Nassar wrote: >On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ian Stoner wrote: > > > >>more. I assumed it was a problem with the interaction between CUPS and >>SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually the driver? >> >> > >heh... sounds to me like the printer is stopping to render > >add RAM, use a better PPD(hint: MacOSX ppds work great) or dont send large >jobs. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 17 08:19:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:21 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB8D904.1070608@visi.com> LOLROF PHPTOm wrote: >Originally I asked for input regarding a distro that was not "under" a major >corporation. I also wanted one that required me to learn more about linux >(redhat is very "easy"). I still have redhat on my main box so that I know >I can keep it up. > >My final decision was between slask and debian. I liked debian's commitment >to being totally free. > >I am still going to get slack and put it on another computer. > >This weekend, by some miracle, I successfully installed debian on an old 133 >MHZ box. I feel like a 4-year-old who just took his first poop by himself. > >TOm > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Mon Nov 17 08:20:23 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069078822.18354.1.camel@unixws1> > My final decision was between slask and debian. I liked debian's commitment > to being totally free. > Heretic! > I am still going to get slack and put it on another computer. Good man. > This weekend, by some miracle, I successfully installed debian on an old 133 > MHZ box. I feel like a 4-year-old who just took his first poop by himself. > You get a Juju Bee :) Seriously, if you run into any hangups with Slack, post it to the list and we'll be glad to help. > TOm > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Nov 17 08:22:03 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input In-Reply-To: References: <1068824303.11782.66.camel@unixws1> Message-ID: <20031117142203.GA30741@mail.el-swifto.com> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:03:27AM -0600, PHPTOm wrote: > This weekend, by some miracle, I successfully installed debian on an old 133 > MHZ box. I feel like a 4-year-old who just took his first poop by himself. > That should be "GNU/poop". -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Nov 17 08:41:15 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] I need distribution input References: <1068824303.11782.66.camel@unixws1> <20031117142203.GA30741@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3FB8DE0B.5050302@structural-wood.com> John J. Trammell wrote: > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:03:27AM -0600, PHPTOm wrote: > >>This weekend, by some miracle, I successfully installed debian on an old 133 >>MHZ box. I feel like a 4-year-old who just took his first poop by himself. >> > > > That should be "GNU/poop". > I just had the thought that I feel sorry for the poor sod who subpoened Richard Stallman... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 09:20:35 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group In-Reply-To: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> References: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> Message-ID: <16312.59203.628311.288444@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I've been using Lisp since 1983 :-) R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 09:28:23 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: References: <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <16312.59671.348983.186996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Munir" == Munir Nassar writes: Munir> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ian Stoner wrote: >> more. I assumed it was a problem with the interaction between CUPS and >> SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually the driver? Munir> heh... sounds to me like the printer is stopping to render I don't believe so --- I've gone out for hours and come home to find it still in this state. Munir> add RAM, use a better PPD(hint: MacOSX ppds work great) or Munir> dont send large jobs. I have a Samsung ML-1210 linux driver to use instead of the built-in foomatic one. I've been unwilling to do it --- after all, it KINDA works now, if I'm willing to restart more often than I should. I'm not at all convinced I'll be able to get it back to the original state if I install the Samsung drivers! And they seem to be compiled against glibc 2.1, whereas I'm on 2.3.... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 17 09:34:09 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311171534.hAHFY9Q10916@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 19inch Optiquest V95 CRT monitor It's in excellent condition and work's fine, but I just bought an LCD monitor and don't need the redundancy. Please take this monitor off my hands. I'm asking $95 or a best offer. Call at 952-933-4622 anytime. If I'm not available I'll call you back as soon as I can. If you're interested I have no problem with you testing it. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From foeclan at visi.com Mon Nov 17 09:40:12 2003 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group In-Reply-To: <16312.59203.628311.288444@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> <16312.59203.628311.288444@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FB8EBDC.9060104@visi.com> That's really more of a statement than a question. :) Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >I've been using Lisp since 1983 :-) > >R > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Mon Nov 17 09:56:30 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8D5@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> I have no problems printing with mandrake and built in drivers to ML-1210 (CUPS). I will double check my config. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: rpgoldman@real-time.com [mailto:rpgoldman@real-time.com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:28 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] debugging cups >>>>> "Munir" == Munir Nassar writes: Munir> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Ian Stoner wrote: >> more. I assumed it was a problem with the interaction between CUPS and >> SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually the driver? Munir> heh... sounds to me like the printer is stopping to render I don't believe so --- I've gone out for hours and come home to find it still in this state. Munir> add RAM, use a better PPD(hint: MacOSX ppds work great) or Munir> dont send large jobs. I have a Samsung ML-1210 linux driver to use instead of the built-in foomatic one. I've been unwilling to do it --- after all, it KINDA works now, if I'm willing to restart more often than I should. I'm not at all convinced I'll be able to get it back to the original state if I install the Samsung drivers! And they seem to be compiled against glibc 2.1, whereas I'm on 2.3.... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 11/10/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Mon Nov 17 10:13:02 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20031117161302.GA12585@karl> Snif the network between boxes during a print may tell you some things. Figure out the flow of data through the box that is hanging, and put in debug traces. So for example, stuff in some go-between scripts in /etc/printcap that print the time and such to a log. This can be tricky cause printing systems seem to be this huge kludge of grungy scripting pasted together with sticks and gum and duct tape, the syntax of printcap sucks, etc. So for example, cups may pass the data over to a rendering program at some point, eventually over to lpt, so try and put scripts inbetween these points and mark the time of completion: echo Step 1 at `date` >> /tmp/print.log Try to narrow it down to the troubled component. The basic flow should be something like this: printdata -> network -> lpd(cups) lpd(cups) -> /var/buffer(scripting hell) -> rendering if needed(more scripting hell) -> out to printer, wherever that may be. Sorry, I shouldn't make fun or call it scripting hell. Its actually the most incredibly flexible wonderful system, long live unix, printing standards, ra ra ra! STOP KILLING TREES! TIE YOURSELF TO A TREE WITH ROOTS YOU AIN'T GOIN NOWHERE. On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 01:09:37PM -0600, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions about debugging cups? I have a > Samsung printer and I find that cups bogs down depressingly often. > Everything just goes to sleep in the middle of a print job, often > after printing just the first page. But then, when I restart cups > (this is Mandrake, so it's /etc/rc.d/init.d/cups restart), everything > comes back. > > I was just hoping someone might be able to suggest where to begin. > I.e., should I look for some common factor in the ps that's going to > the printer? Is there some way to tell what state the system's in > when it bogs (there's no visible data interchange with the printer; > there are entries still in the queue)? I'm willing to work at it; I > just don't know where to start. > > thanks! > R > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Mon Nov 17 10:22:24 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL><3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net><16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <00f601c3ad26$fc40bf10$d037630a@nic.target.com> Ian Stoner wrote: > I see similar behavior on a Samsung ML-1430. The printer is > physically connected to my flatmate's Windows 2000 box. When I print > from my linux box the printer behaves as you've described: it prints > a few pages, pauses anywhere from a few seconds to nearly a minute, > then prints a few more. I assumed it was a problem with the > interaction between CUPS and SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually > the driver? > If you are printing through Samba then the driver in Cups (PPD) does not matter, as it is passed to Cups in RAW mode from Samba. This allows you to use the proper Windows Driver. Tom Veldhouse _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 10:31:17 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Swap an ext3 formatted HD with another box In-Reply-To: <3FB8D576.1090608@visi.com> References: <3FB8D576.1090608@visi.com> Message-ID: <1069086677.2332.1.camel@localhost> Token Ring, hahahaha, i think ill stick with my auto detecting, auto sensing, dhcp assigning, spi firewall protecting, RJ45 accepting Linksys Router:)On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 08:04, Sam MacDonald wrote: > It's better to ask a question then ruin a perfectly good installation. > Hardware stuff is easy once you work with it a bit. I sort of look at > it this way " huh, it doesn't work, guess I have to unplug it" > > Generally hardware works or it doesn't, it's the software that drives > the hardware that you will have issues with. You can reduce the > freak-out factor by getting some old hardware and playing with it. Use > some ISA hardware that requires setting jumpers and you will have a firm > grasp of hardware and what it needs to function. > > Slap a Token ring card set to 4 mbt in a machine and turn it on > connected to a 16mbt Token ring network, then you've arrived in the "I > made a mistake" world of hardware ;-) > > Sam. > > PHPTOm wrote: > > >Thanks all for the feedback. > > > > > > > >>1.starting with: > >> I. an "old computer" with 2 HDs: > >> - the boot HD that has RH installed & your data > >> - a clean ext3 formatted 9G HD > >> II. a "newer computer" with RH installed on the boot HD > >> and plenty of space for your data > >> > >> > > > >That is what I was doing. Except I was hoping to just plop the second HD > >into the new RH installation. > > > >In the end, I did just that. I plugged it in and mounted it right away > >without a single problem. Hardware stuff freaks me out. > > > > > > > > > > > >>Please don't say Windoze. > >> > >> > >yes windoze. I thought about RH, but the computer would be useless to the > >person if it wasn't windoze. Maybe I should dual-boot it. > > > >TOm > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 17 11:02:40 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off the Wall Questions Message-ID: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> I've seen several people looking for Open Source Projects to participate in so I'm posing this to both groups. Lets say I have a laptop (toshiba, compaq, what ever) configured as follows. Pentium 166mhz, 1.5 - 2 gig hard disk, 32 mb ram, 12 in display, 10 mbit nic, external mouse & trackpoint or touch pad, _no_ CDROM (well maybe a CDROM). I want to put Linux on it with X Windows, OpenOffice and MySQL (maybe PHP?). I want to have enough disk space for storing the database and documents. Remember this is for business. What distribution should I use, I want it to be easy, "free", and stable? Yes this has to do with the computer disposal business I'm getting started. I don't want to start with M$ because, well, I'm broke :-[ and then I would have to file chapter 13 after I bought it :-D I've only been a Cobol programmer (2 years), I've done a little (very little) PHP out of the book, a bunch of HTML, and a touch of JavaScript. I was trained as a structured (top down) programmer. This new fangled action-reaction stuff drives me a little buggy. The database would have very few tables and fields, I'm no dba so... Tables customers business names, contact names, addresses, phone numbers, other such information customer inventory CPU serial number, Display serial number, HD serial number, Asset Tag number. (not sure what else) 1. Can I use the spread sheet within OpenOffice to create a data input and reporting system? I would also like to use Writer for certificates that get data from the database as well. 2. Should I ask for help building a data input system that's open source and available on my website or your website "free"? (I like this idea but someone else is going to have to manage the project.) This would be something "small" businesses could use to inventory their computer stuff. It would be easy to install and maintain and would interface with OpenOffice without a hitch. It would be able to function on the M$ platform if needed without tweaking it. Anyone have any ideas or want to take this one on? Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Mon Nov 17 11:22:56 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> References: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> Message-ID: <3698.65.116.187.220.1069089776.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I have Suse 8.2 (used to be RedHat 7.3) installed on an older NEC Reday 330t laptop (266, 4 gb drive, 64mg ram, 10/100 pcmcia nic, cdrom, touchpad). Both installs took a couple of hours to complete, but have worked very well. I use KDE for the desktop and the KOffice applications (Kword, KSpread and KPresenter). I quickly found that OpenOffice very, very slow to use on the older hardware and removed it from the system. For the database I used MySQL. Slack would also work well on your older hardware. I had Slack 8.1 running on a 200 mhz desktop with 64 megs of ram for school last year. I can't say anything about Debian or Gentoo, I haven't used those yet. > I've seen several people looking for Open Source Projects to participate > in so I'm posing this to both groups. > > Lets say I have a laptop (toshiba, compaq, what ever) configured as > follows. Pentium 166mhz, 1.5 - 2 gig hard disk, 32 mb ram, 12 in > display, 10 mbit nic, external mouse & trackpoint or touch pad, _no_ > CDROM (well maybe a CDROM). > > I want to put Linux on it with X Windows, OpenOffice and MySQL (maybe > PHP?). I want to have enough disk space for storing the database and > documents. Remember this is for business. > > What distribution should I use, I want it to be easy, "free", and > stable? > > Yes this has to do with the computer disposal business I'm getting > started. I don't want to start with M$ because, well, I'm broke :-[ > and then I would have to file chapter 13 after I bought it :-D > > I've only been a Cobol programmer (2 years), I've done a little (very > little) PHP out of the book, a bunch of HTML, and a touch of > JavaScript. I was trained as a structured (top down) programmer. This > new fangled action-reaction stuff drives me a little buggy. > > The database would have very few tables and fields, I'm no dba so... > Tables > customers > business names, contact names, addresses, phone numbers, other > such information > customer inventory > CPU serial number, Display serial number, HD serial number, > Asset Tag number. > (not sure what else) > > 1. Can I use the spread sheet within OpenOffice to create a data input > and reporting system? > I would also like to use Writer for certificates that get > data from the database as well. > > 2. Should I ask for help building a data input system that's open source > and available on my website or your website "free"? > (I like this idea but someone else is going to have to > manage the project.) > > This would be something "small" businesses could use to inventory their > computer stuff. It would be easy to install and maintain and would > interface with OpenOffice without a hitch. It would be able to function > on the M$ platform if needed without tweaking it. > > Anyone have any ideas or want to take this one on? > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 17 11:31:05 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. Message-ID: <3FB905D9.2010504@visi.com> *PHP and MYSQL Developer * With the position you can enjoy working remotely out of your home office using personal communication over the phone and email. DealersSyndicate.com is a start-up web ad listing provider for automotive dealers in the US. You must have a computer installed with PHP, MYSQL, Red Hat Linux, and HTML, and possess the skills necessary to work with these tools proficiently; Visual Basic 6.0 and .NET are a plus, but not required. The candidate will develop on their machine and once approved for production, transfer the work packets to our rackspace.com server. Work will be performed in small fixed bid work packets to reduce risk for both yourself and the company. Those interested in a remote work environment with the qualified credentials please send us your resume and hourly rate. This is a contract part-time position. DealersSyndicate.com, inc Mark Main resume@DealersSyndicate.com 15120 400th St North Branch,MN 55056 651-583-2800 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Nov 17 11:53:22 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice Message-ID: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> Hi, I just upgraded a redhat system through apt-get on a lilo system and forgot to 're-lilo' the system. The system has hung on booting. Typically what I've done in the past is boot off the redhat install CD into emergency mode, chroot to my root partition, mount /boot, and enter lilo. I'm following this groups advice to try knoppix (which is truly an amazing thing). After knoppix boots, I open a konsole, chroot to my root partion on the hard drive, and then try to mount /boot. I get this error: mount: block device /dev/sda6 is write-protected, mounting read only. mount: cannot mount block device /dev/sda6 read-only. This is stirring a memory, but things aren't gelling - anybody have any specific help? Thanks, kent _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Nov 17 12:44:44 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3698.65.116.187.220.1069089776.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> <3698.65.116.187.220.1069089776.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <3FB9171C.9080102@visi.com> Suse is owned by Novel/IBM now, so I'm a little nervous about Suse. Is that hale I see coming down on my, no, it a flame form everyone who loves Suse. Sam. Jim Streit wrote: >I have Suse 8.2 (used to be RedHat 7.3) installed on an older NEC Reday >330t laptop (266, 4 gb drive, 64mg ram, 10/100 pcmcia nic, cdrom, >touchpad). Both installs took a couple of hours to complete, but have >worked very well. > >I use KDE for the desktop and the KOffice applications (Kword, KSpread and >KPresenter). I quickly found that OpenOffice very, very slow to use on >the older hardware and removed it from the system. > >For the database I used MySQL. > >Slack would also work well on your older hardware. I had Slack 8.1 running >on a 200 mhz desktop with 64 megs of ram for school last year. > >I can't say anything about Debian or Gentoo, I haven't used those yet. > > > > >>I've seen several people looking for Open Source Projects to participate >> in so I'm posing this to both groups. >> >>Lets say I have a laptop (toshiba, compaq, what ever) configured as >>follows. Pentium 166mhz, 1.5 - 2 gig hard disk, 32 mb ram, 12 in >>display, 10 mbit nic, external mouse & trackpoint or touch pad, _no_ >>CDROM (well maybe a CDROM). >> >>I want to put Linux on it with X Windows, OpenOffice and MySQL (maybe >>PHP?). I want to have enough disk space for storing the database and >>documents. Remember this is for business. >> >>What distribution should I use, I want it to be easy, "free", and >>stable? >> >>Yes this has to do with the computer disposal business I'm getting >>started. I don't want to start with M$ because, well, I'm broke :-[ >> and then I would have to file chapter 13 after I bought it :-D >> >>I've only been a Cobol programmer (2 years), I've done a little (very >>little) PHP out of the book, a bunch of HTML, and a touch of >>JavaScript. I was trained as a structured (top down) programmer. This >>new fangled action-reaction stuff drives me a little buggy. >> >>The database would have very few tables and fields, I'm no dba so... >>Tables >> customers >> business names, contact names, addresses, phone numbers, other >>such information >> customer inventory >> CPU serial number, Display serial number, HD serial number, >>Asset Tag number. >> (not sure what else) >> >>1. Can I use the spread sheet within OpenOffice to create a data input >>and reporting system? >> I would also like to use Writer for certificates that get >>data from the database as well. >> >>2. Should I ask for help building a data input system that's open source >> and available on my website or your website "free"? >> (I like this idea but someone else is going to have to >>manage the project.) >> >>This would be something "small" businesses could use to inventory their >>computer stuff. It would be easy to install and maintain and would >>interface with OpenOffice without a hitch. It would be able to function >> on the M$ platform if needed without tweaking it. >> >>Anyone have any ideas or want to take this one on? >> >>Sam. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Nov 17 12:36:15 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: <3FB905D9.2010504@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:31:05AM -0600 References: <3FB905D9.2010504@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031117123615.D1129@thinkunix.net> Sam, this should probably have gone to the tclug-jobs list instead. https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-jobs Sam MacDonald wrote: > *PHP and MYSQL Developer * > > With the position you can enjoy working remotely out of your home office > using personal communication over the phone and email. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Mon Nov 17 12:48:27 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice In-Reply-To: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> References: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031117184827.GA16779@karl> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:53:22AM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > I get this error: > mount: block device /dev/sda6 is write-protected, mounting read only. > mount: cannot mount block device /dev/sda6 read-only. > This is stirring a memory, but things aren't gelling - anybody have any > specific help? Are you just doing: mount /boot You can't rely on /etc/fstab, so you need to specify the partition: mkdir /tmp/myboot mount /dev/XXX /tmp/myboot Knoppix probably automounted it and doing smart things? Try: df to see what mounts are present. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Mon Nov 17 12:33:42 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice In-Reply-To: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com>; from kent@structural-wood.com on Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:53:22AM -0600 References: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <20031117123342.C1129@thinkunix.net> Kent Schumacher wrote: > I'm following this groups advice to try knoppix (which is truly an amazing > thing). > > After knoppix boots, I open a konsole, chroot to my root partion on the > hard drive, and then try to mount /boot. > > I get this error: > > mount: block device /dev/sda6 is write-protected, mounting read only. > mount: cannot mount block device /dev/sda6 read-only. > > This is stirring a memory, but things aren't gelling - anybody have any > specific help? mount -o remount,rw /dev/sda6 -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 12:56:53 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group In-Reply-To: <3FB8EBDC.9060104@visi.com> References: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> <16312.59203.628311.288444@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FB8EBDC.9060104@visi.com> Message-ID: <16313.6645.600266.265107@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Vieths writes: Michael> That's really more of a statement than a question. :) It was an answer. You haven't been following this thread, have you? :-) Michael> rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> I've been using Lisp since 1983 :-) >> >> R >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 12:55:43 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <3FB8D898.8090709@visi.com> References: <3FB8D898.8090709@visi.com> Message-ID: <16313.6575.375622.655973@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Sam" == Sam MacDonald writes: Sam> Rendering is memory intense, postscript going to a non-postscript Sam> printer will drive you nuts sometimes. Laser printers will go insane Sam> when they don't have enough memory to process a job. Some times they Sam> spit paper out with just one line or many lines of garbage or they just Sam> hang. Sam> But this sounded like a spooler stalling, because it was fixed by Sam> restarting the spooler (cups). Sam> If the print job is coming from a windoze machine. Sam> Be sure the output is set to "Raw" this may not eliminate all stalling Sam> but it should help. Sam> Turn off the printing of any extra pages that divide print jobs. Sam> Delete any temporary files " *.tmp " in the "Temp" directory Sam> (c:\windows\temp or c:\temp). Sam> Don't use the wonderful drag and drop feature on a windows machine to Sam> print, sometimes the application hangs the print job after several pages. Sam> Extend the time-out of the print spooler is another option. Sam> Turn the printer off and on once in a while, nothing like a Sam> cold boot. Thanks, the above are useful. But note that this is NOT just printing from Windoze. In fact, most of the problems occur printing from Linux. I don't understand about the time-out issue. If the time-out were too short, wouldn't I get the jobs failing? That's not what's happening --- the jobs just stop progressing.... Is there any way to tell if the problem's on the spooler side or on the printer side? BTW, I have looked at the WWW CUPS admin tool, and it's totally user-friendly. I.e., it doesn't export any useful information. Seems only to let me choose a driver and specify printer type. Munir seemed to be pointing at something with more functionality.... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Mon Nov 17 12:52:23 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> References: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FB918E7.1080206@visi.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: > I've seen several people looking for Open Source Projects to > participate in so I'm posing this to both groups. > > Lets say I have a laptop (toshiba, compaq, what ever) configured as > follows. > Pentium 166mhz, 1.5 - 2 gig hard disk, 32 mb ram, 12 in display, 10 > mbit nic, external mouse & trackpoint or touch pad, _no_ CDROM (well > maybe a CDROM). > > I want to put Linux on it with X Windows, OpenOffice and MySQL (maybe > PHP?). I want to have enough disk space for storing the database and > documents. Remember this is for business. > > What distribution should I use, I want it to be easy, "free", and stable? > I have an HP Omnibook 800CT that I had running RH 8.0 with a 2GB drive. It did a lot of thrashing running gnome so I switch to one of the small windowing packages, blackbox I think, and that helped some but its still mostly for e-mail when I'm traveling (the 800CT is a small sub-notebook). You might want to look at something with a smaller footprint - at one point I had considered Gentoo or Peanut Linux. > Yes this has to do with the computer disposal business I'm getting > started. I don't want to start with M$ because, well, I'm broke > :-[ and then I would have to file chapter 13 after I bought it :-D > > I've only been a Cobol programmer (2 years), I've done a little (very > little) PHP out of the book, a bunch of HTML, and a touch of > JavaScript. I was trained as a structured (top down) programmer. > This new fangled action-reaction stuff drives me a little buggy. > > The database would have very few tables and fields, I'm no dba so... > Tables > customers > business names, contact names, addresses, phone numbers, other > such information > customer inventory > CPU serial number, Display serial number, HD serial number, > Asset Tag number. > (not sure what else) > I use postgres for most stuff, but you'll probably want something a bit smaller like mysql or pheonix. If its going to be a small database you could always use a flat file database, or dBase, or even something like shsql. But, to keep life simple you'll probably want something that is supported by ODBC and/or Perl DBI , php PEAR, etc. > 1. Can I use the spread sheet within OpenOffice to create a data input > and reporting system? I would also like to use Writer for > certificates that get data from the database as well. > OO will work against databases that are supported by ODBC, which for linux means looking at the unixODBC project. I've played with the ODBC connection using OO under XP so I can't vouch for the unix version, although my impression is that getting unixODBC up and running under Linux is the hard part. Newsforge had a piece today about theKompany releasing a version of Rekall which provides a lot of the forms and reporting capabilities that you get with Access. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 12:59:13 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <00f601c3ad26$fc40bf10$d037630a@nic.target.com> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FB7737F.2010705@eworld3.net> <16312.21311.350752.233871@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> <00f601c3ad26$fc40bf10$d037630a@nic.target.com> Message-ID: <16313.6785.911970.927519@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Thomas T Veldhouse writes: Tom> Ian Stoner wrote: >> I see similar behavior on a Samsung ML-1430. The printer is >> physically connected to my flatmate's Windows 2000 box. When I print >> from my linux box the printer behaves as you've described: it prints >> a few pages, pauses anywhere from a few seconds to nearly a minute, >> then prints a few more. I assumed it was a problem with the >> interaction between CUPS and SAMBA, but maybe the problem is actually >> the driver? >> Tom> If you are printing through Samba then the driver in Cups Tom> (PPD) does not matter, as it is passed to Cups in RAW mode Tom> from Samba. This allows you to use the proper Windows Tom> Driver. Thanks, but no. I'm printing from Windows only through cups (there's a driver that doesn't require samba; someone on this list explained how to use it). Actually, printing from Windows seems to work at least as well as from Linux. :-( R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From foeclan at visi.com Mon Nov 17 13:11:27 2003 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group In-Reply-To: <16313.6645.600266.265107@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> <16312.59203.628311.288444@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FB8EBDC.9060104@visi.com> <16313.6645.600266.265107@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FB91D5F.5080206@visi.com> Ahhh, sorry. :) There wasn't a 're:' or anything on it, so it looked like an original post. It seemed a tad... out of the blue. I'll pay more attention next time. ;) Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>"Michael" == Michael Vieths writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Michael> That's really more of a statement than a question. :) > >It was an answer. You haven't been following this thread, have you? :-) > > > Michael> rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > >> I've been using Lisp since 1983 :-) > >> > >> R > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 12:58:06 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <20031117161302.GA12585@karl> References: <16309.10353.997475.870097@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20031117161302.GA12585@karl> Message-ID: <16313.6718.273498.775341@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Thanks, Karl! Very helpful. I've never really understood the whole connection between lpd and cups. Your summary cleared things up quite a bit.... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Mon Nov 17 13:01:15 2003 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Mon Nov 17 13:18:34 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: <3FB905D9.2010504@visi.com> References: <3FB905D9.2010504@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FB91F0A.2020608@lorenburlingame.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: > DealersSyndicate.com is a start-up web ad listing provider for > automotive dealers in the US. You must have a computer installed with > PHP, MYSQL, Red Hat Linux, and HTML How to install HTML on Red Hat Linux? LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Nov 17 13:29:57 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <16312.59671.348983.186996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I have a Samsung ML-1210 linux driver to use instead of the built-in > foomatic one. I've been unwilling to do it --- after all, it KINDA > works now, if I'm willing to restart more often than I should. I'm > not at all convinced I'll be able to get it back to the original state > if I install the Samsung drivers! And they seem to be compiled > against glibc 2.1, whereas I'm on 2.3.... ppds? compiled? huh? ppds are text files... you dont compile them -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Nov 17 13:37:27 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: <3FB91F0A.2020608@lorenburlingame.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > > DealersSyndicate.com is a start-up web ad listing provider for > > automotive dealers in the US. You must have a computer installed with > > PHP, MYSQL, Red Hat Linux, and HTML > > How to install HTML on Red Hat Linux? $install HTML now duh! -- Munir Nassar Systems Administrator RedConcepts.NET _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lynosull at umn.edu Mon Nov 17 13:49:29 2003 From: lynosull at umn.edu (Lyno Sullivan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: [tcphp] Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald > I want to put Linux on it with X Windows, OpenOffice and MySQL (maybe > PHP?). I want to have enough disk space for storing the database and > documents. Remember this is for business. > > What distribution should I use, I want it to be easy, "free", and stable? God! I love the smell of a good debate, freshly brewing on a fine Minnesota morning. So that we might put an end to the current intellectual property madness, I have deeply studied this matter and sincerely recommend Debian as the best operating system distribution of the here present time on the here present earth. -- Lyno Sullivan Stillwater, MN _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Nov 17 13:56:13 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > > How to install HTML on Red Hat Linux? > > $install HTML now > > duh! That'll install HTML in your user's home directory. What you probably want is to install HTML system-wide: # install HTML now That ought to do it. Jima :D _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 14:16:11 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: References: <16312.59671.348983.186996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16313.11403.796597.362603@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Munir" == Munir Nassar writes: Munir> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> I have a Samsung ML-1210 linux driver to use instead of the built-in >> foomatic one. I've been unwilling to do it --- after all, it KINDA >> works now, if I'm willing to restart more often than I should. I'm >> not at all convinced I'll be able to get it back to the original state >> if I install the Samsung drivers! And they seem to be compiled >> against glibc 2.1, whereas I'm on 2.3.... Munir> ppds? compiled? huh? Munir> ppds are text files... you dont compile them All I know is what I read: # Return the appropriate version string DetectLIBC() { status=1 if [ `uname -s` != Linux ]; then echo "glibc-2.1" return $status fi if [ -f `echo /lib/libc.so.6* | tail -1` ]; then if fgrep GLIBC_2.1 /lib/libc.so.6* 2> $NULL >> $NULL; then echo "glibc-2.1" status=0 else echo "glibc-2.0" status=0 fi elif [ -f /lib/libc.so.5 ]; then echo "libc5" status=0 else echo "unknown" fi return $status } And there's a bin component to the Samsung distribution. I don't know why --- it's too user-friendly to tell me :-( and I've always lived in happy ignorance of unix printing internals before... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Mon Nov 17 14:22:47 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069100567.19094.78.camel@lotsa> On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 13:56, Jima wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > > > How to install HTML on Red Hat Linux? > > > > $install HTML now > > > > duh! > > That'll install HTML in your user's home directory. What you probably > want is to install HTML system-wide: > > # install HTML now > > That ought to do it. I like to install HTML to a floppy, in case the power goes. #install HTML /to/floppy now ya never know > Jima > > :D > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Mon Nov 17 06:37:10 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> References: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031117123710.GA19498@karl> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:02:40AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > What distribution should I use, I want it to be easy, "free", and stable? Hmmmm, thought you were describing the qualities you were looking for in a girl friend for a second there.. bada boom You can select two of the three. Sorry, It's not easy to compete with Adam M. on the joke front. Debian, evil, ha, that was a good one! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Mon Nov 17 14:38:07 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FB931AF.4050201@cdf123.com> Jima wrote: >On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Munir Nassar wrote: > > >>On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: >> >> >>>How to install HTML on Red Hat Linux? >>> >>> >>$install HTML now >> >>duh! >> >> > > That'll install HTML in your user's home directory. What you probably >want is to install HTML system-wide: > ># install HTML now > > That ought to do it. > > Jima > > :D > > > # install HTML now error: failed dependencies: ASCII is needed by HTML doh! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Nov 17 14:54:03 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice References: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> <20031117184827.GA16779@karl> Message-ID: <3FB9356B.803@structural-wood.com> Karl Bongers wrote: > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:53:22AM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: > >>I get this error: >>mount: block device /dev/sda6 is write-protected, mounting read only. >>mount: cannot mount block device /dev/sda6 read-only. >>This is stirring a memory, but things aren't gelling - anybody have any >>specific help? > > > Are you just doing: > mount /boot > You can't rely on /etc/fstab, so you need to specify the partition: > mkdir /tmp/myboot > mount /dev/XXX /tmp/myboot > > Knoppix probably automounted it and doing smart things? > Try: > df > to see what mounts are present. > > OK, this was easy to solve once I started looking at the permissions: ardvar: ls -l /boot /tmp lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Oct 17 09:39 /boot -> /KNOPPIX/boot lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Oct 17 09:39 /tmp -> /var/tmp Thanks for the help. Knoppix really is amazing... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Nov 17 14:54:51 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might be interested. In-Reply-To: <3FB931AF.4050201@cdf123.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Chris Frederick wrote: > # install HTML now > error: failed dependencies: > ASCII is needed by HTML use the --with-deps options -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 15:12:24 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > How much did it cost you to create the MythTV box? I've been interested > in Tivo for a very long time but cannot get past the monthly service > charge. I know that they offer a forever deal, but I would be worried > that forever meant until the company got bought out my Microsoft or > something like that. For mine, it cost me about $400 a year or so ago, buying decent quality parts and such. You can have it be more or less expensive, depending on what you want in it, the form factor, etc. If you buy a fast enough processor, you can get away with a really cheap bt tv card, but I'd recommend spending a bit extra to get a Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 or 350.. if you'd like, you can get the OEM 250's for $90 on eBay. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Nov 17 15:36:17 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Nate Carlson wrote: > For mine, it cost me about $400 a year or so ago, buying decent quality > parts and such. You can have it be more or less expensive, depending on > what you want in it, the form factor, etc. If you buy a fast enough > processor, you can get away with a really cheap bt tv card, but I'd > recommend spending a bit extra to get a Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 250 or 350.. > if you'd like, you can get the OEM 250's for $90 on eBay. > So what's the minimum CPU if you do have a hardware-based encoder? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Mon Nov 17 15:44:08 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice References: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> <20031117184827.GA16779@karl> <3FB9356B.803@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <3FB94128.8080005@structural-wood.com> Kent Schumacher wrote: > > Karl Bongers wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 11:53:22AM -0600, Kent Schumacher wrote: >> >>> I get this error: >>> mount: block device /dev/sda6 is write-protected, mounting read only. >>> mount: cannot mount block device /dev/sda6 read-only. >>> This is stirring a memory, but things aren't gelling - anybody have any >>> specific help? >> >> >> >> Are you just doing: >> mount /boot >> You can't rely on /etc/fstab, so you need to specify the partition: >> mkdir /tmp/myboot >> mount /dev/XXX /tmp/myboot >> >> Knoppix probably automounted it and doing smart things? >> Try: >> df >> to see what mounts are present. >> >> > > OK, this was easy to solve once I started looking at the permissions: > > ardvar: ls -l /boot /tmp > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Oct 17 09:39 /boot -> > /KNOPPIX/boot > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Oct 17 09:39 /tmp -> /var/tmp > > Thanks for the help. Knoppix really is amazing... > > Whoops, I spoke too soon. Mounting /dev/sda6 on a newly created directory still gets the error... The solution is to add the -o dev option to mount when mounting the hard drive root partition mount -o dev /mnt/sda7 chroot /mnt/sda7 mount /boot mount /tmp lilo life is beautiful _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 15:54:05 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > So what's the minimum CPU if you do have a hardware-based encoder? See: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.1 - A P3-733 can encode using MPEG-4 at 480x480; cannot decode at the same time. - A P3-800 can encode with RTJPEG at 480x480 and watch it at the same time - A Dual-Celeron 450 can decode a 480x480 MPEG-4 file with ~30% CPU usage So, for Live TV watching with a software encoder, probably want a P3-800 or better. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Nov 17 16:19:29 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Nate Carlson wrote: > See: > > http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.1 > > - A P3-733 can encode using MPEG-4 at 480x480; cannot decode at the same > time. > > - A P3-800 can encode with RTJPEG at 480x480 and watch it at the same time > > - A Dual-Celeron 450 can decode a 480x480 MPEG-4 file with ~30% CPU usage > > So, for Live TV watching with a software encoder, probably want a P3-800 > or better. > Yea, I've read this, but still doesn't answer my questions. What is the *minimum* system required with a hardware encoder? (and no record/playback at the same time, etc) If my G400 can do both encoding and decoding, the system doesn't need to be all that powerful, right? Now I just need to find an old system with an AGP slot. Anyone? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From matthew at redroot.org Mon Nov 17 16:37:15 2003 From: matthew at redroot.org (Matthew C. Dettinger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> Message-ID: This is interesting. I am going to build a mythTV box in the next month or so, and would appreciate any feedback people have. My biggest concern is sound. I would prefer to never hear the system, but understand that there will be some hard drive use, and a power supply fan. Can anyone recommend a small case setup using a AMD1200, with minimal noise. mcd On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Nate Carlson wrote: > > > See: > > > > http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-3.html#ss3.1 > > > > - A P3-733 can encode using MPEG-4 at 480x480; cannot decode at the same > > time. > > > > - A P3-800 can encode with RTJPEG at 480x480 and watch it at the same time > > > > - A Dual-Celeron 450 can decode a 480x480 MPEG-4 file with ~30% CPU usage > > > > So, for Live TV watching with a software encoder, probably want a P3-800 > > or better. > > > > Yea, I've read this, but still doesn't answer my questions. What is > the *minimum* system required with a hardware encoder? (and no > record/playback at the same time, etc) If my G400 can do both encoding > and decoding, the system doesn't need to be all that powerful, right? > > Now I just need to find an old system with an AGP slot. Anyone? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Mon Nov 17 16:27:22 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? Message-ID: I use KDE often for some tasks. I have had issues with Konqueror crashing. And a couple other things. Is Gnome a more stable program? I like KDE, but I am willing to switch if I get less crashes. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 17 16:42:51 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Question for group In-Reply-To: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> References: <003301c3ac78$72534a60$0700a8c0@baker5> Message-ID: <200311171642.52073@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Sunday 16 November 2003 01:33 pm, Todd Baker wrote: > Hi Group, does anybody on this list by chance have experience with LISP? If > anyone does I have a question that hopefully you could help me out with. > Thanks Todd todd@xnewbie.com tclug-devel@mn-linux.org -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Mon Nov 17 16:30:50 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Just Found this on Monster thought someone might beinterested. In-Reply-To: <1069100567.19094.78.camel@lotsa> Message-ID: > > # install HTML now > > > > That ought to do it. > > I like to install HTML to a floppy, in case the power goes. > > #install HTML /to/floppy now > > ya never know Good one. I actually compiled apache and php (As a module) over the weekend. And it works! (http://www.wurdock.com) TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Nov 17 16:47:19 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, PHPTOm wrote: > I use KDE often for some tasks. I have had issues with Konqueror crashing. > And a couple other things. Is Gnome a more stable program? I like KDE, but > I am willing to switch if I get less crashes. if it is just konqueror crashing then you may want to look at a different web browser Mozilla, Opera, Galeon, Netscape, links, lynx, elinks, w3m Personally i've found KDE more stable and feature rich but there are always the masochistic among us who prefer Gnome. What version of KDE are you running? it could be that you are just using an older version. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 17:02:01 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > Yea, I've read this, but still doesn't answer my questions. What is the > *minimum* system required with a hardware encoder? (and no > record/playback at the same time, etc) If my G400 can do both encoding > and decoding, the system doesn't need to be all that powerful, right? > > Now I just need to find an old system with an AGP slot. Anyone? Sorry, I misread - thought you said if you do *not* have a hardware encoder. If you've got a hardware encoder and decoder in an AGP slot, I'd say you should be ok with any p2. Of course, YMMV. :) I'm using a P3-667 on one of my boxes with a hardware encoder, and it seems to decode just fine. I know that one problem people have run into with the WinTV PVR's and older systems is that many older systems do not support busmastering on the PCI slots, and the card won't work without it. This doesn't apply as much with AGP, though, unless AGP1x/2x are too slow to transfer the data to your hard drive. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Mon Nov 17 17:04:54 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Matthew C. Dettinger wrote: > This is interesting. I am going to build a mythTV box in the next month or > so, and would appreciate any feedback people have. > > My biggest concern is sound. I would prefer to never hear the system, but > understand that there will be some hard drive use, and a power supply fan. > > Can anyone recommend a small case setup using a AMD1200, with minimal > noise. try one of these cases: http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-130-113-07.jpg/11-130-113-06.jpg/11-130-113-05.jpg/11-130-113-04.jpg/11-130-113-03.jpg/11-130-113-02.jpg/11-130-113-01.jpg http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-129-142-01.JPG/11-129-142-02.JPG/11-129-142-05.JPG/11-129-142-04.JPG/11-129-142-03.JPG/11-129-142-06.JPG/11-129-142-07.JPG http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-126-123-01.JPG/11-126-123-02.JPG/11-126-123-03.JPG/11-126-123-04.JPG/11-126-123-06.JPG/11-126-123-05.JPG http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-163-006-01.JPG/11-163-006-02.JPG/11-163-006-03.JPG/11-163-006-04.JPG/11-163-006-06.JPG/11-163-006-05.JPG http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-126-115-08.JPG/11-126-115-07.JPG/11-126-115-04.JPG/11-126-115-05.JPG/11-126-115-06.JPG black, small, desktop ATX cases that will fit nicely under a TV for a processor i would go with one of these http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=19-104-159-01.JPG a 1.6GHz AMD Duron, underclock it to around 1.2GHZ and you should be able to get by with a nice quite slow fan. something like this maybe: http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=35-150-010-05.JPG/35-150-010-06.JPG/35-150-010-07.JPG for a harddrive the 160GB 7200RPM Samsung is said to be rather quiet http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=22-152-011-01.jpg no i do not work at newegg... it just happened to be the first site that i went to. yes, it is feels good to say "i want this this and this" yes, it sucks that i am not getting any of it -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 17:03:35 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Matthew C. Dettinger wrote: > This is interesting. I am going to build a mythTV box in the next month > or so, and would appreciate any feedback people have. > > My biggest concern is sound. I would prefer to never hear the system, > but understand that there will be some hard drive use, and a power > supply fan. > > Can anyone recommend a small case setup using a AMD1200, with minimal > noise. Ask the MythTV mailing list; you'll get a lot more useful answers from there. :) I know many people have been building systems with the VIA all-in-one boards and been very happy. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 17:33:18 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Munir" == Munir Nassar writes: Munir> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, PHPTOm wrote: >> I use KDE often for some tasks. I have had issues with Konqueror crashing. >> And a couple other things. Is Gnome a more stable program? I like KDE, but >> I am willing to switch if I get less crashes. Munir> if it is just konqueror crashing then you may want to look Munir> at a different web browser Munir> Mozilla, Opera, Galeon, Netscape, links, lynx, elinks, w3m Munir> Personally i've found KDE more stable and feature rich but Munir> there are always the masochistic among us who prefer Gnome. Munir> What version of KDE are you running? it could be that you Munir> are just using an older version. I'd second this recommendation. I am very happily using KDE + Mozilla 1.5. I've only very rarely had Konqueror crash on me, though, and I'm pretty sure most of the time was going in and out of embedded pdf files... I'm shocked to hear that you've had a bunch of crashes. YMMV; I find gnome just too ugly to deal with, and I also find that gnome apps are less unified (i.e., more prone to odd menu layouts and key assignments). But it's free software, and you can find at least some of that with both. Oddly, I find that when I need to lash something together, I'm more likely to want to use Gtk, because there's better scripting support. Where's my perl-qt???! :-/ R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 17:36:29 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031117173629.70fe4ea7.william.layer@comcast.net> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:37:15 -0600 (CST) "Matthew C. Dettinger" wrote: > My biggest concern is sound. I would prefer to never hear the system, but > understand that there will be some hard drive use, and a power supply fan. Here is what I have found out about making a PC system quiet: - For the HD, look at the Seagate Barracuda ATA5 series.. very, very quiet. - Papst fans (the quiet ones..) wherever possible; PSU mainly, but case fans as well, should you need them. - Where you can't get a quiet fan, use a series resistor to drop the speed. Use a pot inititally to find the sound vs. heat level you can tolerate, then measure the pot and use a similar fixed resistor to replace it. - For the CPU cooling, use the Zalman 'copper flower' coolers, with the 92mm fan in 'stealth mode' (uses a supplied series resistor). Zalman parts are NICE! - Use a wide tape (I have a 2" aluminum tape) to block off the vent holes on the bottom of the PSU, if they are exposed to the world via vents in the case. - If heat becomes an issue, use more of slower fans, rather than less of faster fans. -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Mon Nov 17 17:49:18 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I'd second this recommendation. I am very happily using KDE + Mozilla > 1.5. I've only very rarely had Konqueror crash on me, though, and I'm > pretty sure most of the time was going in and out of embedded pdf > files... > > I'm shocked to hear that you've had a bunch of crashes. Konq crashes for me on a bunch of web sites; of course, all the sites I've run into are working fine in the 3.2 cvs version. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Mon Nov 17 17:54:59 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba through bastille-firewall Message-ID: I don't know a lot about this stuff, so I may have to just read a book, but maybe this question has a quick answer. I have samba running, and I also have bastille-firewall set up on my box. What ports need to be open for my windows box to talk to my linux box? I can see my samba server in my network neighborhood. When I take bastille-firewall down for a minute, I CAN connect to my samba shares. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Nov 17 18:15:13 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba through bastille-firewall Message-ID: I think it is 137, 138, and 139 typically. Check /etc/services and see if any info is there. >>> phptom@wordesign.net 11/17/03 05:54PM >>> I don't know a lot about this stuff, so I may have to just read a book, but maybe this question has a quick answer. I have samba running, and I also have bastille-firewall set up on my box. What ports need to be open for my windows box to talk to my linux box? I can see my samba server in my network neighborhood. When I take bastille-firewall down for a minute, I CAN connect to my samba shares. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Mon Nov 17 19:08:33 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am using 3.1 It crashes when I am viewing the file system. It's like if I have too many directory trees open. I use mozilla for the web. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Mon Nov 17 21:54:09 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <16312.59671.348983.186996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> <16312.59671.348983.186996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200311172154.10211.jack@jacku.com> On Monday 17 November 2003 09:28 am, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > I have a Samsung ML-1210 linux driver to use instead of the built-in > foomatic one. I've been unwilling to do it --- after all, it KINDA > works now, if I'm willing to restart more often than I should. I'm > not at all convinced I'll be able to get it back to the original state > if I install the Samsung drivers! And they seem to be compiled > against glibc 2.1, whereas I'm on 2.3.... > > Stay with the CUPS driver. I've got a ML-1710 and it works with the CUPS samsunggdi driver without a problem. SuSE reports the printer as an ML-1210. Note: This is a USB printer. When I attempted to load the ppd supplied by Samsung it didn't do any thing. FWIW: CUPS version - 1.1.18 I realize this doesn't answer the question, but I just had a thought. Check your port configuration. Make sure that everything is viewing the port correctly. I suspect if the BIOS show the port as EPP and the software is expecting simple bi-directional or vice-versa its going to screw up. If the 1210 is like the 1710, on Windows you load some sort of control program that probably handles the port configuration issues. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Mon Nov 17 22:05:23 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FB9171C.9080102@visi.com> References: <3FB8FF30.9090208@visi.com> <3698.65.116.187.220.1069089776.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <3FB9171C.9080102@visi.com> Message-ID: <200311172205.23577.jack@jacku.com> On Monday 17 November 2003 12:44 pm, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Suse is owned by Novel/IBM now, so I'm a little nervous about Suse. > > Is that hale I see coming down on my, no, it a flame form everyone who > loves Suse. > > Sam. > First off I would not flame you for that. Anything after SuSE 7.2 probably won't load well on that system. (The installer needs 48MB RAM for some reason.) My recommendation is: 1. Get a CD-ROM drive 2a. Get Damn Small Linux or 2b. Get Morphix Lite GUI 3. Boot from CD-ROM 4. Run hard drive install script 5. Be a happy camper. ;-) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Mon Nov 17 22:21:57 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions Message-ID: <200311180421.hAI4Lv5F018977@trojan.software.umn.edu> I have a general question regarding linux and slow computers. I have an amd 500 mhz and 192 megs of ram minus 8 for video. I'm running redhat 9. I sometimes have problems running out of memory when doing regular stuff, sometimes it even seems like it has a larger memory footprint than windows 98. But here we have someone who was using linux on 64 megs of ram and reccomending it on 32 megs. X alone takes up about 20 megs of ram for me and gnome probably another 20. add web browser and email and we have about 40 more. are you using X when you're using linux? Am I doing something wrong here? --Original Message-- I have Suse 8.2 (used to be RedHat 7.3) installed on an older NEC Reday 330t laptop (266, 4 gb drive, 64mg ram, 10/100 pcmcia nic, cdrom, touchpad). Both installs took a couple of hours to complete, but have worked very well. I use KDE for the desktop and the KOffice applications (Kword, KSpread and KPresenter). I quickly found that OpenOffice very, very slow to use on the older hardware and removed it from the system. For the database I used MySQL. Slack would also work well on your older hardware. I had Slack 8.1 running on a 200 mhz desktop with 64 megs of ram for school last year. I can't say anything about Debian or Gentoo, I haven't used those yet. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Mon Nov 17 22:51:16 2003 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] New MP3 decoder to replace SliMP3 Message-ID: Hey everyone, The topic of MP3 decoders that plug into standard stereo equipment has come up on the list often enough that I thought I would mention that Slim Devices has just announced a new MP3 player with wi-fi and digital outs. See http://www.slimdevices.com/ -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Nov 17 22:50:50 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Issue trackers Message-ID: OK, someone asked about issue trackers. I saw endorsements of RT, Bugzilla, One or Zero, OTRS, Roundup and maybe a few others. Freshmeat lists these open source trackers as well: GNATS, Anthill, Anthill Bug Manager (really), BATTS, Bluetail Ticket Tracker, Bosco, Bug Traction, BugIn', BugPort, CVSTrac (will have to look at that one!), Double Choco Latte, gwyple, Helis, Issue Dealer, Issue-Tracker, ITracker, Mantis, phpBugTracker, PRepS, Project Assistant, Request Tracker, Scarab, ST@FF, Teacup PRMS, What Bugs?, workbench, yaktrack. Oeyh! That's just plain too many. I installed Roundup and gave it a quick try, but it seems really simple. Maybe a little too simple. I'd like to use something that I can start using right away, then later get it to get some reports for PHB's showing spiffy graphs of bugs closed each week or stuff like that. I've got a server already running MySQL and Postgres, so it should work with one of those. Have any of you folks looked into several of the options? Or have you looked at one or two and gone with it? Or... actually made a list of requirements and got the first one that met them all? Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 22:51:55 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <200311180421.hAI4Lv5F018977@trojan.software.umn.edu> References: <200311180421.hAI4Lv5F018977@trojan.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3FB9A56B.9090609@comcast.net> 500Mhz and 192Meg of RAM is slow???!!!! That's a great machine, more than probably 70% of the people on the Internet need for what they do. Most people work on MSWord docs and surf the web, and yet they feel the need to always have the latest and fastest PC available. My primary is a 750Mhz Duron with 768Meg of RAM running Win98SE (yeah, yeah, I know). My secondary is a 400Mhz Intell with 384Meg of RAM running Mandrake9.1 and it works great. Actually both PCs work great. I have no problems with "speed" on either machine. I may be way off base here,(let the flames begin!) but it seems that Redhat is following in Microsoft's footsteps by "bloating" the so-called "basic" system, which in turn creates a slower system. At least with SUSE you can choose a "bare-bones" install. My advice. Reload the system and this time manually go through the applications that are loaded and prune out some of the stuff that you never use, maybe even consider going with Slackware or VectorLinux or Debian. I've got a great article that I printed out that guides you through installing a very "base" Debian system, I think it takes less than 500Megs of disk space. I could probably scan it and send it out, or maybe even find the URL on the printout. I never accept the "default" application load on any operating system, Linux or Windows. Joe Dunsmore wrote: > I have a general question regarding linux and slow computers. I have an > amd 500 mhz and 192 megs of ram minus 8 for video. I'm running redhat 9. > I sometimes have problems running out of memory when doing regular stuff, > sometimes it even seems like it has a larger memory footprint than windows > 98. But here we have someone who was using linux on 64 megs of ram and > reccomending it on 32 megs. X alone takes up about 20 megs of ram for me > and gnome probably another 20. add web browser and email and we have about > 40 more. are you using X when you're using linux? Am I doing something > wrong here? -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Nov 17 23:33:12 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200311171534.hAHFY9Q10916@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200311171534.hAHFY9Q10916@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031118053312.GS21392@techmonkeys.org> Is there any functionality to make these a bit less anonymous? On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 09:34:09AM -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Tue Nov 18 00:33:14 2003 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <20031117173629.70fe4ea7.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> <20031117173629.70fe4ea7.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <16AA7DA9-1991-11D8-B79D-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Has anyone run a myth tv server and used the client on another box over the network? It would be nice to drop the server in my basement and use machines littered throughout the house to actually do the watching. -jay On Nov 17, 2003, at 5:36 PM, Bill Layer wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:37:15 -0600 (CST) > "Matthew C. Dettinger" wrote: > >> My biggest concern is sound. I would prefer to never hear the system, >> but >> understand that there will be some hard drive use, and a power supply >> fan. > > Here is what I have found out about making a PC system quiet: > > - For the HD, look at the Seagate Barracuda ATA5 series.. very, very > quiet. > > - Papst fans (the quiet ones..) wherever possible; PSU mainly, but > case fans as well, should you need them. > > - Where you can't get a quiet fan, use a series resistor to drop the > speed. Use a pot inititally to find the sound vs. heat level you can > tolerate, then measure the pot and use a similar fixed resistor to > replace it. > > - For the CPU cooling, use the Zalman 'copper flower' coolers, with > the 92mm fan in 'stealth mode' (uses a supplied series resistor). > Zalman parts are NICE! > > - Use a wide tape (I have a 2" aluminum tape) to block off the vent > holes on the bottom of the PSU, if they are exposed to the world via > vents in the case. > > - If heat becomes an issue, use more of slower fans, rather than less > of faster fans. > > -L > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Nov 18 03:17:43 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <16AA7DA9-1991-11D8-B79D-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> <20031117173629.70fe4ea7.william.layer@comcast.net> <16AA7DA9-1991-11D8-B79D-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <1069147062.3629.14.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Nov 18 03:40:53 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <16AA7DA9-1991-11D8-B79D-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <20031117213617.GH13553@fandre.com> <20031117221928.GA4531@fandre.com> <20031117173629.70fe4ea7.william.layer@comcast.net> <16AA7DA9-1991-11D8-B79D-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <20031118094053.GT21392@techmonkeys.org> I have, it works fine. I actually have a frontend on my laptop, which works fine over 802.11g (.11b isn't fast enough). On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 12:33:14AM -0600, Jay Austad wrote: > Has anyone run a myth tv server and used the client on another box over > the network? > > It would be nice to drop the server in my basement and use machines > littered throughout the house to actually do the watching. > > -jay -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Nov 18 07:39:28 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FBA2110.8030902@visi.com> Lets face it folks, gnome looks like the M$ interface. rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>"Munir" == Munir Nassar writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Munir> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, PHPTOm wrote: > >> I use KDE often for some tasks. I have had issues with Konqueror crashing. > >> And a couple other things. Is Gnome a more stable program? I like KDE, but > >> I am willing to switch if I get less crashes. > > Munir> if it is just konqueror crashing then you may want to look > Munir> at a different web browser > > Munir> Mozilla, Opera, Galeon, Netscape, links, lynx, elinks, w3m > > Munir> Personally i've found KDE more stable and feature rich but > Munir> there are always the masochistic among us who prefer Gnome. > > Munir> What version of KDE are you running? it could be that you > Munir> are just using an older version. > >I'd second this recommendation. I am very happily using KDE + Mozilla >1.5. I've only very rarely had Konqueror crash on me, though, and I'm >pretty sure most of the time was going in and out of embedded pdf >files... > >I'm shocked to hear that you've had a bunch of crashes. > >YMMV; I find gnome just too ugly to deal with, and I also find that >gnome apps are less unified (i.e., more prone to odd menu layouts and >key assignments). But it's free software, and you can find at least >some of that with both. > >Oddly, I find that when I need to lash something together, I'm more >likely to want to use Gtk, because there's better scripting support. >Where's my perl-qt???! :-/ > >R > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Tue Nov 18 07:51:19 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Issue trackers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069163478.20869.2.camel@unixws1> I've only worked with a handful of these, but I'm sure if you post your requirements to the list (how you want the system to work), everyone can give you input on what their "favorite" system can do. IIRC, OTRS does graphs for manglement. On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 22:50, Chris Schumann wrote: > OK, someone asked about issue trackers. I saw endorsements of RT, Bugzilla, > One or Zero, OTRS, Roundup and maybe a few others. Freshmeat lists these > open source trackers as well: GNATS, Anthill, Anthill Bug Manager (really), > BATTS, Bluetail Ticket Tracker, Bosco, Bug Traction, BugIn', BugPort, > CVSTrac (will have to look at that one!), Double Choco Latte, gwyple, Helis, > Issue Dealer, Issue-Tracker, ITracker, Mantis, phpBugTracker, PRepS, Project > Assistant, Request Tracker, Scarab, ST@FF, Teacup PRMS, What Bugs?, > workbench, yaktrack. > > Oeyh! That's just plain too many. I installed Roundup and gave it a quick > try, but it seems really simple. Maybe a little too simple. > > I'd like to use something that I can start using right away, then later get > it to get some reports for PHB's showing spiffy graphs of bugs closed each > week or stuff like that. > > I've got a server already running MySQL and Postgres, so it should work with > one of those. > > Have any of you folks looked into several of the options? Or have you looked > at one or two and gone with it? Or... actually made a list of requirements > and got the first one that met them all? > > Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC > Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 > Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Nov 18 07:55:55 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B3A5@IPSERVER2> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:39 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? > > > Lets face it folks, gnome looks like the M$ interface. > > And KDE doesn't? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Nov 18 08:09:48 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <3FBA2110.8030902@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Lets face it folks, gnome looks like the M$ interface. and KDE does not? i gotta get me some of your glasses -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Nov 18 08:29:20 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? Message-ID: The benefit of being similar to the most popular desktop environment is considerable, and I don't see a recognition of similarity as a slam. On the other hand, I think there is a finite bag of tricks an "intuitive" GUI desktop will have. All three (Windows, Gnome, and KDE) have most of them. The thing I like most about Gnome and KDE is that they are optional. :-) >>> nassarmu@redconcepts.net 11/18/03 08:09AM >>> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Lets face it folks, gnome looks like the M$ interface. and KDE does not? i gotta get me some of your glasses _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Nov 18 08:37:02 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B3A6@IPSERVER2> > -----Original Message----- > From: Munir Nassar [mailto:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:10 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? > > > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Lets face it folks, gnome looks like the M$ interface. > > and KDE does not? > > i gotta get me some of your glasses > Seriously, how does KDE not look like Windows. Your starting point is the lower left corner of the screen, etc . Actually a lot of wm's copy Windows who copied someone else who copied someone else (stated for the benefit of anyone wanting to chime in with Xerox PARC comments). Emulating the most common user interface on the planet is a good strategy. Yes Linux can work towards something better, but for migrating users you are going to have to give them something similar to ease the transition. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Tue Nov 18 08:44:50 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069166690.3fba3062cc5f7@mail.bitstream.net> I've been a Gnome loyalist for a long time and while KDE has a nice interface Gnome/GTK has the programs (Gimp, Gaim, even versions of Firebird and Eclipse). Of course you can run KDE stuff on a Gnome system and vice-versa so the only real choice is what desktop are you going to use. I like the Gnome-panel (the menu bar) a lot and when Nautilus (the file manager) works it works well. Lately my Nautilus bogs down and won't display directorys until it's killed now and then but I'm sure that will go away next release. Metacity (the window manager) is very stable and relatively pretty. Brady > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > Lets face it folks, gnome looks like the M$ interface. > > and KDE does not? > > i gotta get me some of your glasses > > -- > Munir Nassar > RedConcepts.NET > http://redconcepts.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Tue Nov 18 08:55:03 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBA32C7.9080100@druswanderings.net> Troy.A Johnson wrote: > The thing I like most about Gnome and KDE is that > they are optional. :-) > AMEN Brother!! Can I get a witness?! -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 18 08:57:51 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? References: Message-ID: <3FBA336F.3040502@structural-wood.com> Troy.A Johnson wrote: > The benefit of being similar to the most popular > desktop environment is considerable, and I don't > see a recognition of similarity as a slam. > > On the other hand, I think there is a finite bag > of tricks an "intuitive" GUI desktop will have. > All three (Windows, Gnome, and KDE) have most > of them. > > The thing I like most about Gnome and KDE is that > they are optional. :-) > > Not only are they optional, but gnome at least is themable and configurable in ways that are kind of amazing. You can have your choice of button bars, task bars, applets, window managers, etc... If you don't want to look like windows you most definitely don't have to. (My son has button bars on all 4 sides of his screen and each bar is packed with xeyes applets. It's pretty cool but I could never work that way). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Tue Nov 18 08:59:29 2003 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice References: <3FB90B12.1070902@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <001201c3ade4$9148c540$0101a8c0@cascade> # umount /boot # mount -o rw /dev/hda1 /boot Tom Veldhouse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Schumacher" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:53 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Knoppix advice > Hi, > > I just upgraded a redhat system through apt-get on a lilo system and forgot > to 're-lilo' the system. The system has hung on booting. > > Typically what I've done in the past is boot off the redhat install CD into > emergency mode, chroot to my root partition, mount /boot, and enter lilo. > > I'm following this groups advice to try knoppix (which is truly an amazing > thing). > > After knoppix boots, I open a konsole, chroot to my root partion on the > hard drive, and then try to mount /boot. > > I get this error: > > mount: block device /dev/sda6 is write-protected, mounting read only. > mount: cannot mount block device /dev/sda6 read-only. > > This is stirring a memory, but things aren't gelling - anybody have any > specific help? > > Thanks, > kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Nov 18 09:11:54 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] SCO in the News Message-ID: <3FBA36BA.8050007@visi.com> Wow! http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=46124 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Nov 18 09:22:07 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] 64 bit Desktop Message-ID: <3FBA391F.4040108@visi.com> Wow again! http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=46121 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 10:21:51 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debugging cups In-Reply-To: <200311172154.10211.jack@jacku.com> References: <20031117001827.7d192c2b.ston0235@umn.edu> <16312.59671.348983.186996@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200311172154.10211.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: <16314.18207.528598.480421@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jack" == Jack Ungerleider writes: Jack> On Monday 17 November 2003 09:28 am, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >> I have a Samsung ML-1210 linux driver to use instead of the built-in >> foomatic one. I've been unwilling to do it --- after all, it KINDA >> works now, if I'm willing to restart more often than I should. I'm >> not at all convinced I'll be able to get it back to the original state >> if I install the Samsung drivers! And they seem to be compiled >> against glibc 2.1, whereas I'm on 2.3.... >> >> Jack> Stay with the CUPS driver. I've got a ML-1710 and it works Jack> with the CUPS samsunggdi driver without a problem. SuSE Jack> reports the printer as an ML-1210. Note: This is a USB Jack> printer. When I attempted to load the ppd supplied by Jack> Samsung it didn't do any thing. FWIW: CUPS version - 1.1.18 Thank you very much, Jack. Interestingly, AFAICT, my system is just using the ordinary foomatic driver.... AFAICT, there's no samsunggdi driver on my system. But there is something in the changelog of a more recent version of the samsung-drivers rpm that indicates it might work better with gdi (samsunggdi seems to be SuSE's name for the same thing???). I'll try upgrading and see if that works better..... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 10:26:54 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <1069166690.3fba3062cc5f7@mail.bitstream.net> References: <1069166690.3fba3062cc5f7@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <16314.18510.545850.849115@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "b" == bradyh writes: b> I've been a Gnome loyalist for a long time and while KDE has a nice interface b> Gnome/GTK has the programs (Gimp, Gaim, even versions of Firebird and Eclipse). b> Of course you can run KDE stuff on a Gnome system and b> vice-versa so the only real choice is what desktop are you b> going to use. I like the Gnome-panel (the menu bar) a lot and b> when Nautilus (the file manager) works it works well. Lately b> my Nautilus bogs down and won't display directorys until it's b> killed now and then but I'm sure that will go away next b> release. Metacity (the window manager) is very stable and b> relatively pretty. The thing I didn't like about Nautilus is that it didn't take the filename's word for it about MIME type. So Nautilus would try to open all my Star Office (OpenOffice) documents (encoded in XML) with a web browser, because it could see that they were really XML... I rooted around in some mailing lists, and it seemed like this was a known bug and the developers weren't going to fix it. Since XML formats are only going to become more popular, not less, I threw in the towel on my Nautilus experiment and went back to KDE... [Actually, this was an experiment for my wife's benefit. I hate GUIs, and I *especially* hate file system browsers. If I want to open a file, I'll just type 'oowriter &' and be done with it.] R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Nov 18 11:15:32 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? Message-ID: Don't they even have a configuration directive to stop this? This is like explorer.exe opening every file in a directory looking for an icon. Very expensive on file rich directories. :-( >>> rpgoldman@real-time.com 11/18/03 10:26AM >>> The thing I didn't like about Nautilus is that it didn't take the filename's word for it about MIME type. ... I rooted around in some mailing lists, and it seemed like this was a known bug and the developers weren't going to fix it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 18 11:30:12 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? References: <1069166690.3fba3062cc5f7@mail.bitstream.net> <16314.18510.545850.849115@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FBA5724.8020003@structural-wood.com> rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>"b" == bradyh writes: >>>>> > > b> I've been a Gnome loyalist for a long time and while KDE has a nice interface > b> Gnome/GTK has the programs (Gimp, Gaim, even versions of Firebird and Eclipse). > > b> Of course you can run KDE stuff on a Gnome system and > b> vice-versa so the only real choice is what desktop are you > b> going to use. I like the Gnome-panel (the menu bar) a lot and > b> when Nautilus (the file manager) works it works well. Lately > b> my Nautilus bogs down and won't display directorys until it's > b> killed now and then but I'm sure that will go away next > b> release. Metacity (the window manager) is very stable and > b> relatively pretty. > > The thing I didn't like about Nautilus is that it didn't take the > filename's word for it about MIME type. So Nautilus would try to open > all my Star Office (OpenOffice) documents (encoded in XML) with a web > browser, because it could see that they were really XML... I rooted > around in some mailing lists, and it seemed like this was a known bug > and the developers weren't going to fix it. Since XML formats are > only going to become more popular, not less, I threw in the towel on > my Nautilus experiment and went back to KDE... > > [Actually, this was an experiment for my wife's benefit. I hate GUIs, > and I *especially* hate file system browsers. If I want to open a > file, I'll just type 'oowriter &' and be done with it.] > > R FYI, I just upggraded my home computers to RedHat 9, and Nautilus associates all OpenOffice and StarOffice documents with OpenOffice. Also, nautilus is *vastly* faster now. Note that I use gui's for launching lots of xterms, but my wife and kid just won't do that... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 12:25:02 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <3FBA5724.8020003@structural-wood.com> References: <1069166690.3fba3062cc5f7@mail.bitstream.net> <16314.18510.545850.849115@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FBA5724.8020003@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <16314.25598.327170.361197@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Kent" == Kent Schumacher writes: Kent> rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>> "b" == bradyh writes: >>>>>> >> b> I've been a Gnome loyalist for a long time and while KDE has a nice interface b> Gnome/GTK has the programs (Gimp, Gaim, even versions of Firebird and Eclipse). >> b> Of course you can run KDE stuff on a Gnome system and b> vice-versa so the only real choice is what desktop are you b> going to use. I like the Gnome-panel (the menu bar) a lot and b> when Nautilus (the file manager) works it works well. Lately b> my Nautilus bogs down and won't display directorys until it's b> killed now and then but I'm sure that will go away next b> release. Metacity (the window manager) is very stable and b> relatively pretty. >> >> The thing I didn't like about Nautilus is that it didn't take the >> filename's word for it about MIME type. So Nautilus would try to open >> all my Star Office (OpenOffice) documents (encoded in XML) with a web >> browser, because it could see that they were really XML... I rooted >> around in some mailing lists, and it seemed like this was a known bug >> and the developers weren't going to fix it. Since XML formats are >> only going to become more popular, not less, I threw in the towel on >> my Nautilus experiment and went back to KDE... >> >> [Actually, this was an experiment for my wife's benefit. I hate GUIs, >> and I *especially* hate file system browsers. If I want to open a >> file, I'll just type 'oowriter &' and be done with it.] >> >> R Kent> FYI, I just upggraded my home computers to RedHat 9, and Nautilus Kent> associates all OpenOffice and StarOffice documents with OpenOffice. Kent> Also, nautilus is *vastly* faster now. Cool! Maybe I can move my wife to it. I find that KDE has far too many buttons and things for her. Too many ways to do one thing. Fine for people like me, but the simpler the better for many. Most people don't need to have the option to open a document 4 different ways (especially when to do so you have to type the ugly executable name, instead of the readable name the icon has....). In my next life maybe I'll try to make a novice-usable desktop. :-) R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 18 12:54:02 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? References: <1069166690.3fba3062cc5f7@mail.bitstream.net> <16314.18510.545850.849115@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3FBA5724.8020003@structural-wood.com> <16314.25598.327170.361197@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3FBA6ACA.7020700@structural-wood.com> > > Kent> FYI, I just upggraded my home computers to RedHat 9, and Nautilus > Kent> associates all OpenOffice and StarOffice documents with OpenOffice. > > Kent> Also, nautilus is *vastly* faster now. > > Cool! Maybe I can move my wife to it. I find that KDE has far too > many buttons and things for her. Too many ways to do one thing. Fine > for people like me, but the simpler the better for many. Most people > don't need to have the option to open a document 4 different ways > (especially when to do so you have to type the ugly executable name, > instead of the readable name the icon has....). > > In my next life maybe I'll try to make a novice-usable desktop. :-) > > R My wife's desktop has a 'Document' icon that launches Nautilus, a tasklist applet, a clock applet, a mozilla launcher, a mozilla mail launcher, and a logout button. No menus. That's pretty novice usable - it cuts down on my home admin'ing duties as well. My son on the other hand has so much stuff going on his desktop it makes me twitchy to look at it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Tue Nov 18 13:40:08 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> This is my first MythTV Server. I built it as a trial to see if it was worthy of more expensive hardware. And so far I think it very much is! My current MythTV server: Athlon 900 512 meg ram WinPVR250 (the one with the mpeg2 encoder chip, and the ir receiver and remote that works with LIRC) external vga to tv box with remote I have it all setup to work with the remote control so even my girlfriend and others can use it. I have 4 other computers in the house with myth client that I can watch from including my laptop. We do have 802.11b in the house, but I dont think its fast enough. I had a couple glitches with it when TNN switched to SpikeTV, the guid didnt update. But I am sure all the small bugs I have experienced will be worked out with time. My next server will be dual processor, have many tuners, and run all the TV's in my house. But thats expensive and far down the road. I only suggest that you get fast hard drives for the myth server, also try to use a dedicated partition for the storage so the shows dont ever halt your OS. Watching shows on multiple clients while recording others makes we worry about my poor drives. P.S. Sorry I didnt respond very quickly. Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > > How much did it cost you to create the MythTV box? I've been > interested in Tivo for a very long time but cannot get past the > monthly service charge. I know that they offer a forever deal, but I > would be worried that forever meant until the company got bought out > my Microsoft or something like that. > > I would be interested in copying your system or purchasing a copy from > you. > > > Jeff Rasmussen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Jorgensen [mailto:jasonj@igi.com] > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 1:27 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input > > > HAHAHA Thats awesome. > > I use Debian on all of my workstations, laptops, servers, and even my > MythTV box in the living room is Debian. If you ripped open my chest you > would probably see a beating red swirl. > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is THE > >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the > >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, > >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by > >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time Debian > >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the other > >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will > >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. > > > >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 > >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth > >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at > >no cost? > > > >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing > >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm > >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, > >either way - VERY BAD. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 14:57:42 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: Perl bindings for KDE/QT was Re: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1069189062.3fba87c6a1919@webmail.real-time.com> > Oddly, I find that when I need to lash something together, I'm more > likely to want to use Gtk, because there's better scripting support. > Where's my perl-qt???! :-/ http://developer.kde.org/language-bindings/perl/index.html Only dabbled with it, since I'm not a big perl fan. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 14:59:58 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: Cheap plug: kde-redhat project kde-3.2 RPMs was Re: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: References: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1069189198.3fba884eadc6a@webmail.real-time.com> Quoting Nate Carlson : > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > I'd second this recommendation. I am very happily using KDE + Mozilla > > 1.5. I've only very rarely had Konqueror crash on me, though, and I'm > > pretty sure most of the time was going in and out of embedded pdf > > files... > > > > I'm shocked to hear that you've had a bunch of crashes. > > Konq crashes for me on a bunch of web sites; of course, all the sites I've > run into are working fine in the 3.2 cvs version. Need to do a cheap plug, if you want to try kde-3.2 out on a redhat system, you can pop over to http://kde-redhat.sf.net and see if Rex has put them into the unstable repository yet. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 14:55:06 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069188906.3fba872a6be35@webmail.real-time.com> Quoting PHPTOm : > I use KDE often for some tasks. I have had issues with Konqueror crashing. > And a couple other things. Is Gnome a more stable program? I like KDE, but > I am willing to switch if I get less crashes. What distribution are you running? What version of kde are you using? Do you take the time to submit bug reports to the kde developers? I running kde from kde-redhat and it is very solid. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 15:07:45 2003 From: tanner at real-time.com (tanner@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Issue trackers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069189665.3fba8a21e10ba@webmail.real-time.com> Quoting Chris Schumann : > Have any of you folks looked into several of the options? Or have you looked > at one or two and gone with it? Or... actually made a list of requirements > and got the first one that met them all? Request Tracker. Amy did install a bunch these issue trackers and after a false start (I think with the double chocolate thingie). Settled on Request Tracker. Taking here research info, I embarked on looking for a trouble ticket system for Real Time and have much playing-around, picked Request Tracker. I'll offer up, what I did for Tim. If you want to see Request Tracker in action, you can arrange a time with me to come to our training room and you can see our RT installation in action (ie a demo). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Nov 18 15:22:37 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:28 2005 Subject: Perl bindings for KDE/QT was Re: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <1069189062.3fba87c6a1919@webmail.real-time.com> References: <16313.23230.980550.522616@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1069189062.3fba87c6a1919@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <16314.36253.573227.259808@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "BT" == tanner writes: >> Oddly, I find that when I need to lash something together, I'm more >> likely to want to use Gtk, because there's better scripting support. >> Where's my perl-qt???! :-/ BT> http://developer.kde.org/language-bindings/perl/index.html BT> Only dabbled with it, since I'm not a big perl fan. I'll have to try again sometime. The last time I tried, there were two conflicting perl qt's on cpan, and the attempt to install perl qt plunged me into a complete dependency hell (IIRC, the Perl QT used a version of QT that was older than the one I had installed, and that made everything ugly). Also, sadly, while there is a perl QT, there is no perl KDE.... Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Nov 18 16:54:06 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FB9A56B.9090609@comcast.net> References: <200311180421.hAI4Lv5F018977@trojan.software.umn.edu> <3FB9A56B.9090609@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FBAA30E.10208@visi.com> I don't run X windows on my old hardware because it is 486 or P200 and just not enough uffda to make it worth the waiting. Todd Young wrote: > 500Mhz and 192Meg of RAM is slow???!!!! > > That's a great machine, more than probably 70% of the people on the > Internet need for what they do. Most people work on MSWord docs and > surf the web, and yet they feel the need to always have the latest and > fastest PC available. > > My primary is a 750Mhz Duron with 768Meg of RAM running Win98SE (yeah, > yeah, I know). > My secondary is a 400Mhz Intell with 384Meg of RAM running Mandrake9.1 > and it works great. Actually both PCs work great. I have no problems > with "speed" on either machine. > > I may be way off base here,(let the flames begin!) but it seems that > Redhat is following in Microsoft's footsteps by "bloating" the > so-called "basic" system, which in turn creates a slower system. At > least with SUSE you can choose a "bare-bones" install. My advice. > Reload the system and this time manually go through the applications > that are loaded and prune out some of the stuff that you never use, > maybe even consider going with Slackware or VectorLinux or Debian. > I've got a great article that I printed out that guides you through > installing a very "base" Debian system, I think it takes less than > 500Megs of disk space. I could probably scan it and send it out, or > maybe even find the URL on the printout. I never accept the "default" > application load on any operating system, Linux or Windows. > > Joe Dunsmore wrote: > >> I have a general question regarding linux and slow computers. I have an >> amd 500 mhz and 192 megs of ram minus 8 for video. I'm running >> redhat 9. I sometimes have problems running out of memory when doing >> regular stuff, >> sometimes it even seems like it has a larger memory footprint than >> windows >> 98. But here we have someone who was using linux on 64 megs of ram and >> reccomending it on 32 megs. X alone takes up about 20 megs of ram >> for me >> and gnome probably another 20. add web browser and email and we have >> about >> 40 more. are you using X when you're using linux? Am I doing something >> wrong here? > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Nov 18 17:01:00 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <3FBAA30E.10208@visi.com> References: <200311180421.hAI4Lv5F018977@trojan.software.umn.edu> <3FB9A56B.9090609@comcast.net> <3FBAA30E.10208@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031118170100.A12808@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 04:54:06PM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I don't run X windows on my old hardware because it is 486 or P200 and > just not enough uffda to make it worth the waiting. X is not the problem! Until a couple of month's ago my main box at home was a P200 that runs Windowmaker and Mozilla at a perfectly acceptable rate. Of course, that box has 384 MB of RAM, but the point is clock rate usually isn't the bottleneck on old hardware, memory is. I also have a 486 with 32 MB RAM that runs X fine. I won't run Mozilla locally on it, but its fine over the network. If you really can't run X on old harware, you should think about switching to a slimmer window manager. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Tue Nov 18 19:31:25 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions Message-ID: <200311190131.hAJ1VPbu022747@qix.software.umn.edu> > 500Mhz and 192Meg of RAM is slow???!!!! It's not slow, but sometimes I run out of memory. As time goes on, this happens less frequently however. > My primary is a 750Mhz Duron with 768Meg of RAM running Win98SE > (yeah, > > yeah, I know). > My secondary is a 400Mhz Intell with 384Meg of RAM running > Mandrake9.1 > > and it works great. Actually both PCs work great. I have no problems > with "speed" on either machine. you have quite a bit more memory than I do. > I may be way off base here,(let the flames begin!) but it seems that > Redhat is following in Microsoft's footsteps by "bloating" the > so-called > "basic" system, which in turn creates a slower system. At least with > SUSE you can choose a "bare-bones" install. My advice. Reload the > system > and this time manually go through the applications that are loaded > and but wouldn't that just take up room on my hard drive, not my memory? > prune out some of the stuff that you never use, maybe even consider > going with Slackware or VectorLinux or Debian. I've got a great > article > that I printed out that guides you through installing a very "base" > Debian system, I think it takes less than 500Megs of disk space. I > could > probably scan it and send it out, or maybe even find the URL on the > printout. I never accept the "default" application load on any > operating system, Linux or Windows. I plan on trying out a lot of different distros, but most of my memory is taken up by X and gnome, how's redhat actually come into play here? Could it be that gtk takes up more space than related windows libraries and that when I use mozilla, this results in stuff in memory not doing anything? I'll repeat that actually right now, my system isn't going into virtual memory but when I was first using it, that would happen constantly, even when using the same apps. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Tue Nov 18 20:40:22 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba through bastille-firewall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To get samba through bastille-forewall, it seems ports 135-140 for TCP and UDP had to be opened. And TCP 445 did too. Though I have no idea what I am talking about. I know that worked. Also, to browse windows shares in KDE, it had to be set up in KDE's "CONTROL CENTER", which has a very intense name. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Nov 18 20:44:22 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311190244.hAJ2iMY12423@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Sun 3/50 Sun 3/50 pizzabox form factor 20" Black and White monitor ~600MB SCSI hard drive SCSI tape drive with tapes Keyboard Optical Mouse SunOS 4.5.1 (latest version that will run on it) Will deliver in the Twin Cities. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 19 07:55:48 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba through bastille-firewall Message-ID: 136 might not be needed. >>> phptom@wordesign.net 11/18/03 08:40PM >>> To get samba through bastille-forewall, it seems ports 135-140 for TCP and UDP had to be opened. And TCP 445 did too. Though I have no idea what I am talking about. I know that worked. Also, to browse windows shares in KDE, it had to be set up in KDE's "CONTROL CENTER", which has a very intense name. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 08:57:17 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <200311190131.hAJ1VPbu022747@qix.software.umn.edu> References: <200311190131.hAJ1VPbu022747@qix.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1069253837.2350.1.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 19:31, Joe Dunsmore wrote: > > 500Mhz and 192Meg of RAM is slow???!!!! > > It's not slow, but sometimes I run out of memory. As time goes on, > this happens less frequently however. > > > My primary is a 750Mhz Duron with 768Meg of RAM running Win98SE > > (yeah, > > > > yeah, I know). > > My secondary is a 400Mhz Intell with 384Meg of RAM running > > Mandrake9.1 > > > > and it works great. Actually both PCs work great. I have no problems > > with "speed" on either machine. > > you have quite a bit more memory than I do. > > > I may be way off base here,(let the flames begin!) but it seems that > > Redhat is following in Microsoft's footsteps by "bloating" the > > so-called > > "basic" system, which in turn creates a slower system. At least with > > SUSE you can choose a "bare-bones" install. My advice. Reload the > > system > > and this time manually go through the applications that are loaded > > and > > but wouldn't that just take up room on my hard drive, not my memory? > > > prune out some of the stuff that you never use, maybe even consider > > going with Slackware or VectorLinux or Debian. I've got a great > > article > > that I printed out that guides you through installing a very "base" > > Debian system, I think it takes less than 500Megs of disk space. I > > could > > probably scan it and send it out, or maybe even find the URL on the > > printout. I never accept the "default" application load on any > > operating system, Linux or Windows. > > I plan on trying out a lot of different distros, but most of my memory > is taken up by X and gnome, how's redhat actually come into play here? > Could it be that gtk takes up more space than related windows libraries > and that when I use mozilla, this results in stuff in memory not doing > anything? I'll repeat that actually right now, my system isn't going > into virtual memory but when I was first using it, that would happen > constantly, even when using the same apps. > Im running Mandrake 9.2 with a gig of pc2100 on a xp2100 cpu, seems to me that linux uses alot more memory than my win2k install, still plenty left though, havent gone under 500mb free yet > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Wed Nov 19 09:32:10 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <1069253837.2350.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: A more appropriate way of putting it is that Linux uses memory very differently... http://www.fokus.gmd.de/linux/FAQ/Linux-FAQ/x1977.html#AEN2097 And http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scott J Julian Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:57 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 19:31, Joe Dunsmore wrote: > > 500Mhz and 192Meg of RAM is slow???!!!! > > It's not slow, but sometimes I run out of memory. As time goes on, > this happens less frequently however. > > > My primary is a 750Mhz Duron with 768Meg of RAM running Win98SE > > (yeah, > > > > yeah, I know). > > My secondary is a 400Mhz Intell with 384Meg of RAM running > > Mandrake9.1 > > > > and it works great. Actually both PCs work great. I have no problems > > with "speed" on either machine. > > you have quite a bit more memory than I do. > > > I may be way off base here,(let the flames begin!) but it seems that > > Redhat is following in Microsoft's footsteps by "bloating" the > > so-called "basic" system, which in turn creates a slower system. At > > least with SUSE you can choose a "bare-bones" install. My advice. > > Reload the system and this time manually go through the applications > > that are loaded and > > but wouldn't that just take up room on my hard drive, not my memory? > > > prune out some of the stuff that you never use, maybe even consider > > going with Slackware or VectorLinux or Debian. I've got a great > > article that I printed out that guides you through installing a very > > "base" > > Debian system, I think it takes less than 500Megs of disk space. I > > could probably scan it and send it out, or maybe even find the URL > > on the printout. I never accept the "default" application load on > > any operating system, Linux or Windows. > > I plan on trying out a lot of different distros, but most of my memory > is taken up by X and gnome, how's redhat actually come into play here? > Could it be that gtk takes up more space than related windows > libraries and that when I use mozilla, this results in stuff in memory > not doing anything? I'll repeat that actually right now, my system > isn't going into virtual memory but when I was first using it, that > would happen constantly, even when using the same apps. > Im running Mandrake 9.2 with a gig of pc2100 on a xp2100 cpu, seems to me that linux uses alot more memory than my win2k install, still plenty left though, havent gone under 500mb free yet > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Nov 19 10:00:51 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> References: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> Message-ID: FYI: http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2003/11/13/linux_pvr.html nice (short) PVR story.... and some comments at the end On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:40:08 -0600, Jason Jorgensen wrote: > This is my first MythTV Server. I built it as a trial to see if it was > worthy of more expensive hardware. And so far I think it very much is! > > My current MythTV server: > Athlon 900 > 512 meg ram > WinPVR250 (the one with the mpeg2 encoder chip, and the ir receiver and > remote that works with LIRC) > external vga to tv box with remote > > I have it all setup to work with the remote control so even my > girlfriend and others can use it. I have 4 other computers in the house > with myth client that I can watch from including my laptop. We do have > 802.11b in the house, but I dont think its fast enough. > > I had a couple glitches with it when TNN switched to SpikeTV, the guid > didnt update. But I am sure all the small bugs I have experienced will > be worked out with time. > > My next server will be dual processor, have many tuners, and run all the > TV's in my house. But thats expensive and far down the road. > > I only suggest that you get fast hard drives for the myth server, also > try to use a dedicated partition for the storage so the shows dont ever > halt your OS. Watching shows on multiple clients while recording others > makes we worry about my poor drives. > > > P.S. Sorry I didnt respond very quickly. > > Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > >> >> How much did it cost you to create the MythTV box? I've been >> interested in Tivo for a very long time but cannot get past the monthly >> service charge. I know that they offer a forever deal, but I would be >> worried that forever meant until the company got bought out my >> Microsoft or something like that. >> >> I would be interested in copying your system or purchasing a copy from >> you. >> >> >> Jeff Rasmussen >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jason Jorgensen [mailto:jasonj@igi.com] >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 1:27 PM >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [TCLUG] I need distribution input >> >> >> HAHAHA Thats awesome. >> >> I use Debian on all of my workstations, laptops, servers, and even my >> MythTV box in the living room is Debian. If you ripped open my chest you >> would probably see a beating red swirl. >> >> >> Adam Maloney wrote: >> >> >A lot of people on this list will tell you to use Debian. Debian is >> THE >> >DEVIL. They say Debian is the solution for everything, just check the >> >archives! They are trying to lead you down the path of temptation, >> >promising everything but delivering nothing. It's all LIES made up by >> >the Con to lure you into their evil cult. When was the last time >> Debian >> >got up and made you breakfast? Never, because IT DOESN'T. On the >> other >> >hand, Slackware WILL make you breakfast and you WILL like it. It will >> >make you rich. It will make you more appealing to the opposite sex. >> > >> >Debian is free, but Slackware costs $100,000 and comes with a $100,000 >> >instant rebate. Why would you want to use something that's worth >> >nothing, when you can enjoy the benefits of a $100,000 distribution at >> >no cost? >> > >> >If you say Debian backwards you get "Naibed", which is the same thing >> >you hear when you play the 33rpm of "Revolution 9" backwards at 45rpm >> >with just the left channel. The word means either Satan or Puppies, >> >either way - VERY BAD. >> > > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Nov 19 09:59:02 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email tax will kill spam Message-ID: <20031119155902.GA11267@mail.el-swifto.com> Too bad Mark Dayton didn't take his millions and invest in a clue. ----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:47:17 -0500 To: politech@politechbot.com From: Declan McCullagh Subject: [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email tax will kill spam [sp --- http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4220626.html E-mail tax may help stop spam, Dayton says Elizabeth Dunbar, Star Tribune Washington Published November 19, 2003 WASHINGTON, D.C. -- If Congress is going to stop unsolicited commercial e-mail from swamping computer users, Sen. Mark Dayton says legislators might need to consider "a minuscule tax" on e-mail. [...] Slashdot thread: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/19/1357235&mode=thread&tid=103&tid=111&tid=126&tid=99 _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 10:26:22 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email taxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: <20031119155902.GA11267@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of John J. Trammell > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:59 AM > To: TCLUG List > Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email > taxwill kill spam > > > Too bad Mark Dayton didn't take his millions and invest in a clue. He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) Chuck _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Wed Nov 19 10:34:30 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email tax will kill spam In-Reply-To: <20031119155902.GA11267@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031119155902.GA11267@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3FBB9B96.7050603@druswanderings.net> John J. Trammell wrote: > Too bad Mark Dayton didn't take his millions and invest in a clue. > I just got a card yesterday inviting me to a "Town Meeting" with him. Maybe I'll go and bring my clue stick along. All I can say is I didn't vote for him. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Wed Nov 19 11:07:53 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email taxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Chuck Cole" writes: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of John J. Trammell > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:59 AM > > To: TCLUG List > > Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email > > taxwill kill spam > > > > > > Too bad Mark Dayton didn't take his millions and invest in a clue. > > He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) We call that "pay as you go". As opposed to the republican alternative of mortgaging the future. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Nov 19 11:08:47 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email taxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Chuck Cole wrote: > He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) whats wrong with spending? i thought spending was the premier way of impreving the economy? and spending tends to increase jobs and increase the general living level. no i am not a DFLer, and yes i think taxing anything related to the internet is stupid, but i think that blanket statements like the above are even stupider. <-- is that a word? well it is now. -- Munir Nassar Systems Administrator RedConcepts.NET _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Wed Nov 19 11:21:02 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question compiling mozilla Message-ID: <200311191721.hAJHL3ow003977@challenge.software.umn.edu> So I'm doing my configure script when compiling mozilla. one of the flags is: --prefix=YOUR_GNOME_PREFIX I was told that I put a path to gnome here. But I don't really have a single gnome program. what exactly should I put here? when doing the config without that flag, I got this error: *** The gtk-config script installed by GTK could not be found. *** If GTK was installed in PREFIX, make sure PREFIX/bin is in *** your path, or set the GTK_CONFIG environment variable to the *** full path to gtk-config. *** GTK+ is available from ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk configure: error: Test for GTK failed _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 19 11:22:56 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam Message-ID: Should have been OT from the start. Naughty list member! >>> dd-b@dd-b.net 11/19/03 11:07AM >>> "Chuck Cole" writes: > > -----Original Message----- > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of John J. Trammell > > Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email > > taxwill kill spam > > Too bad Mark Dayton didn't take his millions and invest in a clue. > He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) We call that "pay as you go". As opposed to the republican alternative of mortgaging the future. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Nov 19 11:34:52 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email taxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBBA9BC.2070903@visi.com> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Chuck Cole wrote: >He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) > > I suppose the left's constant need to use taxes for social engineering could bother me, but Dayton's complete ignorance of the structure of the internet and the heavy regulation required to actually levy an e-mail tax bothers me a lot more. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Wed Nov 19 11:20:27 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email taxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can we please not go there? If I want to have a political "debate" (read flame-war) there are plenty of places I can go other than a Linux mailing list... > > He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) > > We call that "pay as you go". As opposed to the republican > alternative of mortgaging the future. ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 19 11:38:55 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [OT] RE: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam Message-ID: It was an anti-DFL troll. I liked it, but I also enjoy anti-GOP trolling too. To each his own. I do think you overemphasize the "goodness" of spending. All spending is not equal in the realm of economic "goodness"". >>> nassarmu@redconcepts.net 11/19/03 11:08AM >>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Chuck Cole wrote: > He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) whats wrong with spending? i thought spending was the premier way of impreving the economy? and spending tends to increase jobs and increase the general living level. no i am not a DFLer, and yes i think taxing anything related to the internet is stupid, but i think that blanket statements like the above are even stupider. <-- is that a word? well it is now. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Wed Nov 19 11:41:28 2003 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam Message-ID: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37C0@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Is there really anyway they can enforce something like this anyway? I mean it is easy enough just to put up a mail server and never have to touch any government agency...unless they scanned every bit of traffic on everyone's internet connection which I think runs dangerously close to violation on privacy....or would the patriot act allow them to do just that for some silly tax? Dan Lansing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Richard Hoffbeck Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:35 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Chuck Cole wrote: >He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) > > I suppose the left's constant need to use taxes for social engineering could bother me, but Dayton's complete ignorance of the structure of the internet and the heavy regulation required to actually levy an e-mail tax bothers me a lot more. --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Nov 19 11:57:12 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: <3FBBA9BC.2070903@visi.com> Message-ID: I agree, and can underscore Dayton's apparent ignorance. I've had direct contact with Mark Dayton over "significant community matters" before and was truly "underwhelmed". ' nuff sed. This os OT Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Richard Hoffbeck > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:35 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says > emailtaxwill kill spam > > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Chuck Cole wrote: > > >He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) > > > > > I suppose the left's constant need to use taxes for social engineering > could bother me, but Dayton's complete ignorance of the structure of the > internet and the heavy regulation required to actually levy an e-mail > tax bothers me a lot more. > > --rick > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 12:01:28 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam In-Reply-To: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37C0@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <0399641989D32043BED5793CCC8F5CD54D37C0@BPEXU1VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <1069264888.2466.0.camel@localhost> Eschelon??? Carnivore??? On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 11:41, Lansing, Dan wrote: > Is there really anyway they can enforce something like this anyway? > I mean it is easy enough just to put up a mail server and never have to touch any government agency...unless they scanned every bit of traffic on everyone's internet connection which I think runs dangerously close to violation on privacy....or would the patriot act allow them to do just that for some silly tax? > > Dan Lansing > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Richard Hoffbeck > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:35 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtaxwill kill spam > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Chuck Cole wrote: > > >He's DFL.. only knows to tax and spend :-) > > > > > I suppose the left's constant need to use taxes for social engineering > could bother me, but Dayton's complete ignorance of the structure of the > internet and the heavy regulation required to actually levy an e-mail > tax bothers me a lot more. > > --rick > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 19 12:13:42 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email tax will kill spam In-Reply-To: <20031119155902.GA11267@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031119155902.GA11267@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3FBBB2D6.7050001@visi.com> He has always been a dolt! John J. Trammell wrote: >Too bad Mark Dayton didn't take his millions and invest in a clue. > > >----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh ----- > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:47:17 -0500 >To: politech@politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says email tax will > kill spam [sp > >--- > >http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4220626.html > >E-mail tax may help stop spam, Dayton says >Elizabeth Dunbar, Star Tribune Washington >Published November 19, 2003 >WASHINGTON, D.C. -- If Congress is going to stop unsolicited commercial >e-mail from swamping computer users, Sen. Mark Dayton says legislators >might need to consider "a minuscule tax" on e-mail. [...] > >Slashdot thread: >http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/19/1357235&mode=thread&tid=103&tid=111&tid=126&tid=99 >_______________________________________________ >Politech mailing list >Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ >Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/) > >----- End forwarded message ----- > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Nov 19 12:07:28 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, just wanted to introduce myself, I'm a network admin at a small biopharmeceutical fluid handling supply company in the twin cities. I'm diving into linux seriously for the first time, but I've been admining windows of various sorts for about 6 years. I'm building a web-based project management system in php & mysql, and I'm really impressed with how far Linux has come in the past couple years, though there's certainly still areas that are a bit mind-boggling. I'll have plenty of questions for the list soon enough, but for now I thought I'd just introduce myself. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 19 12:31:44 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtax will kill spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As a new member to the TCLUG email list, looking to learn more about Linux and those who use it in the Twin Cities area, I, personally, find it abit annoying to have a political debate, aka flame war, going on. Although, I'm willing to give the list abit more time to see if it has value, many I have been on don't. There are others who would leave without saying anything. I am all for freedom of speech and opinion, which this is, but there are more appropriate black holes on the internet for this type of discussion. And if my honesty in my opinion has offened people... Deal with it..... IMHO ---------------- Life Sucks, Get a Helmet. -- Dennis Leary _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Nov 19 12:50:45 2003 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question compiling mozilla In-Reply-To: <200311191721.hAJHL3ow003977@challenge.software.umn.edu> References: <200311191721.hAJHL3ow003977@challenge.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20031119125045.A16778@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:21:02AM -0600, Joe Dunsmore wrote: > So I'm doing my configure script when compiling mozilla. one of the flags > is: > > --prefix=YOUR_GNOME_PREFIX > > I was told that I put a path to gnome here. But I don't really have a > single > gnome program. what exactly should I put here? when doing the config > without > that flag, I got this error: > > *** The gtk-config script installed by GTK could not be found. > *** If GTK was installed in PREFIX, make sure PREFIX/bin is in > *** your path, or set the GTK_CONFIG environment variable to the > *** full path to gtk-config. > *** GTK+ is available from ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk > configure: error: Test for GTK failed You gtk (including it development files) in order to compile mozilla. There are also a bunch of other dependencies for mozilla that you will need installed in orde to compile it. What distro are you using? There should be packages for the necessary libraries, but you will have to look at the mozilla docs to find out what they all are. Once you have all the necessary libs installed, you probably won't have to use any flags with the configure script, unless you put the libs in odd places. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 19 12:48:27 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list Message-ID: Welcome! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lynosull at umn.edu Wed Nov 19 13:06:51 2003 From: lynosull at umn.edu (Lyno Sullivan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Matt Murphy > I'm building a web-based project management system in php > & mysql, Matt, I would encourage you to look around sourceforge.net for PHP, MySQL projects that already exist. I am currently exploring http://sourceforge.net/projects/egroupware/ myself. eGroupWare has 17 developers, some of whom are likely to be active developers. This is good because it increases the probability of being actively maintained in the future. Further eGroupWare is "Development Status: 5 - Production/Stable" which is also good because it means the software probably has most of the bugs worked out. Finally eGroupWare is "Programming Language: PHP" which is an important selection criteria. -- Lyno Sullivan Stillwater, MN _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Nov 19 13:06:50 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtax will kill spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I second that. On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:31:44 -0600, Michael wrote: > > > As a new member to the TCLUG email list, looking to learn more about > Linux > and those who use it in the Twin Cities area, > I, personally, find it abit annoying to have a political debate, aka > flame > war, going on. > > Although, I'm willing to give the list abit more time to see if it has > value, many I have been on don't. There are others who would leave > without > saying anything. > > I am all for freedom of speech and opinion, which this is, but there are > more appropriate black holes on the internet for this type of discussion. > > And if my honesty in my opinion has offened people... Deal with it..... > > > IMHO > > ---------------- > Life Sucks, > Get a Helmet. > -- Dennis Leary > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 19 13:14:05 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2684.65.116.187.220.1069269245.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Welcome ... > > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself, I'm a network admin at a small > biopharmeceutical fluid handling supply company in the twin cities. I'm > diving into linux seriously for the first time, but I've been admining > windows of various sorts for about 6 years. I'm building a web-based > project management system in php & mysql, and I'm really impressed with > how far Linux has come in the past couple years, though there's > certainly still areas that are a bit mind-boggling. I'll have plenty of > questions for the list soon enough, but for now I thought I'd just > introduce myself. > > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bbaptist at iexposure.com Wed Nov 19 13:16:31 2003 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200311191316.31891.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Wednesday 19 November 2003 1:06 pm, Lyno Sullivan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > On Behalf Of Matt Murphy > > I'm building a web-based project management system in php > > & mysql, > > Matt, > > I would encourage you to look around sourceforge.net for PHP, MySQL > projects that already exist. I am currently exploring > http://sourceforge.net/projects/egroupware/ myself. > > eGroupWare has 17 developers, some of whom are likely to be active > developers. This is good because it increases the probability of being > actively maintained in the future. Further eGroupWare is "Development > Status: 5 - Production/Stable" which is also good because it means the > software probably has most of the bugs worked out. Finally eGroupWare is > "Programming Language: PHP" which is an important selection criteria. -- > Lyno Sullivan > Stillwater, MN I would also check out dotproject. We have been using it for awhile very clean project. http://www.dotproject.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Bret Baptist Systems and Technical Support Specialist bbaptist@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612)676-1946 x17 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Nov 19 13:13:30 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. Ahh, looks like it's a continuation from phpgroupware, which looked promising but lacking. Right now I'm highly modifying phpsupport, though that's not really groupware, more like a helpdesk system I'm modifying to be a project management system. I've been happy with squirrelmail for now, but always worth looking... I'm hoping eventually to find an alternative to exchange, but we've got some time before worrying about that too much... Matt > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Matt Murphy > I'm building a web-based project management system in php > & mysql, Matt, I would encourage you to look around sourceforge.net for PHP, MySQL projects that already exist. I am currently exploring http://sourceforge.net/projects/egroupware/ myself. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Nov 19 13:32:55 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Off the Wall Questions In-Reply-To: <1069253837.2350.1.camel@localhost> References: <200311190131.hAJ1VPbu022747@qix.software.umn.edu> <1069253837.2350.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20031119193255.GC30415@fandre.com> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Scott J Julian wrote: > Im running Mandrake 9.2 with a gig of pc2100 on a xp2100 cpu, seems to > me that linux uses alot more memory than my win2k install, still plenty > left though, havent gone under 500mb free yet > > You do realize that Linux makes use of your free memory for buffers and caching, don't you? That's why it looks like you are using most of your memory. If any applications need more memory, the system will reduce the amount of buffers/caching it is doing and let the apps use it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Nov 19 13:29:03 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200311190244.hAJ2iMY12423@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200311190244.hAJ2iMY12423@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031119192902.GB30415@fandre.com> This is no longer in the classifieds. Did someone actually want this? On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Free > > Subject: Sun 3/50 > > Sun 3/50 pizzabox form factor > 20" Black and White monitor > ~600MB SCSI hard drive > SCSI tape drive with tapes > Keyboard > Optical Mouse > SunOS 4.5.1 (latest version that will run on it) > Will deliver in the Twin Cities. > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 19 13:36:19 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap Message-ID: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I have a question about moving RedHat 9 from one box to another. What I would like to do is copy everything from box A to box B, unplug box A, give box B the same IP addresses as box A and be done with it (temporarily). Currently box A is: RedHat 9 Dual Intel PIII 550 2 GB of RAM 3 hot swap 18 GB SCSI drives RAID 5 3com nic Box B is: RedHat 9 Single PIII 600 512 mb RAM 1 10 GB IDE drive 3com nic The amount of data on box A is about 6 GB so it will fit on the smaller drive in box B. I want to do this temporarily, but keep the information active, and re-build box A from the ground up. Any thoughts or ideas will be helpful. Thanks in advance. -- Jim Streit Partner & Co-Founder NorthLANs Alliance, LLC JimStreit@northlans.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Nov 19 13:49:34 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <20031119192902.GB30415@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > This is no longer in the classifieds. Did someone actually want this? it said free on the TCLUG list, i thought we all knew already that you could mark a rock as "free" and advertise on the tclug list and you will have at least two callers... speaking of which, i have some leaves in my back yard free for the taking! i'll even make you a cup of tea while you pick them up. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 19 14:35:36 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to expand my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, IRIX and FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as well as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB HDD, that I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with FreeBSD for awhile, I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop environments with KDE becoming my personal preference. With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I should expect out of a PIII 750. TIA Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 19 14:52:54 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <20031119192902.GB30415@fandre.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > This is no longer in the classifieds. Did someone actually want this? The world's a scary place, Clay. Maybe I should try and get rid of that 4/75 [1] I have that's been gathering dust. Runs Linux, albeit slowly. Can't say whether the NVRAM is still any good, though. Jima 1. AKA SparcStation 2, i.e.: http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ss2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Nov 19 14:56:27 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > I have a question about moving RedHat 9 from one box to another. What I > would like to do is copy everything from box A to box B, unplug box A, > give box B the same IP addresses as box A and be done with it > (temporarily). Typically you can just tar up your entire disk, move it to another box, fix the bootloader and /etc/fstab, and the box boots. If the 3com NICs don't have the same chipset, you might have a driver issue. If it's the same chipset it should transisiton flawlessly. I know several people on this list who are running a system that was built 3 boxes ago, moved, upgraded, moved, upgraded, etc. Moving linux from one box to another is usually a pain free process, I wish you luck. -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Nov 19 15:06:44 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: References: <20031119192902.GB30415@fandre.com> Message-ID: <20031119210644.GI30415@fandre.com> The reason I ask is I'm currently working at Honeywell. As you might image, they have stuff running here that's over 20 years old. And when things die, it's up to us admins to get them working again. A few times we've even found parts on eBay. Maybe I should put together a list of all the old crap we run here and see what you TCLUGers have that you would liek to get rid of. On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jima wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Clay Fandre wrote: > > This is no longer in the classifieds. Did someone actually want this? > > The world's a scary place, Clay. Maybe I should try and get rid of that > 4/75 [1] I have that's been gathering dust. Runs Linux, albeit slowly. > Can't say whether the NVRAM is still any good, though. > > Jima > > 1. AKA SparcStation 2, i.e.: http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ss2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Nov 19 14:56:54 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031119205654.GH30415@fandre.com> The first thing you should do is configure hdparm. I'm not sure if RH9 configures it or not, but if it doesn't, it helps a lot. http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to expand > my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, IRIX and > FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the > Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as well > as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) > > I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB HDD, that > I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with FreeBSD for awhile, > I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop environments with KDE becoming my > personal preference. > > With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit > sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially > current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other > suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I should > expect out of a PIII 750. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Wed Nov 19 15:07:46 2003 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 19 15:25:42 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll check on that one. My HDD is brand new and the MB isn't that old so I know that DMA and PIO modes are available. I'll have to grab the specs from Dell for the laptop and IBM for the HDD to see if I can get those set optimal for my system. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Clay Fandre Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:57 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New to list with a question The first thing you should do is configure hdparm. I'm not sure if RH9 configures it or not, but if it doesn't, it helps a lot. http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to > expand my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, IRIX and > FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the > Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as > well as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) > > I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB > HDD, that I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with > FreeBSD for awhile, I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop > environments with KDE becoming my personal preference. > > With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit > sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially > current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other > suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I > should expect out of a PIII 750. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Wed Nov 19 15:21:54 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: <20031119205654.GH30415@fandre.com> Message-ID: I'm also new to the list... RE performance... I was running RH9.0 and DMA wouldn't work on my Inspiron 8500 2.2 gig laptop w/o tweaking (finding the right module for my controller and compiling it). This made it DOG slow, it was night and day afterwards.. FWIW, I am now on RHEL WS3.0 and the controller was recognized right away. Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Clay Fandre Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:57 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New to list with a question The first thing you should do is configure hdparm. I'm not sure if RH9 configures it or not, but if it doesn't, it helps a lot. http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to > expand my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, IRIX and > FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the > Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as > well as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) > > I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB > HDD, that I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with > FreeBSD for awhile, I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop > environments with KDE becoming my personal preference. > > With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit > sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially > current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other > suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I > should expect out of a PIII 750. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Nov 19 15:40:44 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <3FBBE35C.7060409@eworld3.net> Jim Streit wrote: > The amount of data on box A is about 6 GB so it will fit on the smaller > drive in box B. I want to do this temporarily, but keep the information > active, and re-build box A from the ground up. Any thoughts or ideas will > be helpful. Let's clarify. You are not really moving RH from one box to another, right? You are moving the *data*, presumably some sort of active database, and you want to keep the database on-line, with users actively accessing the data while you move it to the other machine. Maybe I misunderstood. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 19 15:27:07 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: References: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <3164.65.116.187.220.1069277227.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > >> I have a question about moving RedHat 9 from one box to another. What >> I would like to do is copy everything from box A to box B, unplug box >> A, give box B the same IP addresses as box A and be done with it >> (temporarily). > > Typically you can just tar up your entire disk, move it to another box, > fix the bootloader and /etc/fstab, and the box boots. Tar to a temporary drive? or can I some how tar it to the other box directly? I'm using GRUB for the bootloader, would I just need to modify the grub.conf file or is there something else that I would have to change? > > If the 3com NICs don't have the same chipset, you might have a driver > issue. If it's the same chipset it should transisiton flawlessly. I > know several people on this list who are running a system that was built > 3 boxes ago, moved, upgraded, moved, upgraded, etc. Moving linux from > one box to another is usually a pain free process, I wish you luck. > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 19 15:51:22 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Beer Meeting Friday (?) Message-ID: Pending reservation, but this is the tentative plan. Check our site before you leave for it. --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, November 21, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Grumpy's Bar (Downtown Minneapolis) 1111 Washington Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN Phone: 612-340-9738 Details: It's been over ten months, but we're going back to Grumpy's. Nice beer selection, good food -- a hit. Come share a beer or pop with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- As always, more information can be found at http://beer.tclug.org . Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Nov 19 15:51:22 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting Friday (?) Message-ID: Pending reservation, but this is the tentative plan. Check our site before you leave for it. --- snip --- A TCLUG beer meeting is a bi-weekly get-together where TCLUG members can get to know one another and share a beer. The beer meetings are open to anyone and everyone, so don't be afraid to show up. When: Friday, November 21, 2003 6pm - 8pm Where: Grumpy's Bar (Downtown Minneapolis) 1111 Washington Ave. S. Minneapolis, MN Phone: 612-340-9738 Details: It's been over ten months, but we're going back to Grumpy's. Nice beer selection, good food -- a hit. Come share a beer or pop with fellow geeks. As always, everyone is welcome! Bring a friend, spouse, or co-worker. --- snip --- As always, more information can be found at http://beer.tclug.org . Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 19 16:06:16 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <3FBBE35C.7060409@eworld3.net> References: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <3FBBE35C.7060409@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3530.65.116.187.220.1069279576.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Oops, I forgot to say that I can have the boxes off-line for a couple of hours and nobody would care. > Jim Streit wrote: >> The amount of data on box A is about 6 GB so it will fit on the >> smaller drive in box B. I want to do this temporarily, but keep the >> information active, and re-build box A from the ground up. Any >> thoughts or ideas will be helpful. > > Let's clarify. You are not really moving RH from one box to another, > right? You are moving the *data*, presumably some sort of active > database, and you want to keep the database on-line, with users actively > accessing the data while you move it to the other machine. Maybe I > misunderstood. > > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > rick@eworld3.net > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Wed Nov 19 15:53:42 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting Friday (?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, now THIS is my kind of group! =] Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 19 16:05:03 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <3FBBE35C.7060409@eworld3.net> References: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <3FBBE35C.7060409@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3526.65.116.187.220.1069279503.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Yeh, I would like to move everything. Box B currently has RedHat 9 on it, but that's because I just put it on the box, thought it would be easier to move everything over. I would like to take the entire OS along with the data so that I know my apps will have the correct file versions and stuff. > Jim Streit wrote: >> The amount of data on box A is about 6 GB so it will fit on the >> smaller drive in box B. I want to do this temporarily, but keep the >> information active, and re-build box A from the ground up. Any >> thoughts or ideas will be helpful. > > Let's clarify. You are not really moving RH from one box to another, > right? You are moving the *data*, presumably some sort of active > database, and you want to keep the database on-line, with users actively > accessing the data while you move it to the other machine. Maybe I > misunderstood. > > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > rick@eworld3.net > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Nov 19 16:03:23 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <3164.65.116.187.220.1069277227.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > Tar to a temporary drive? or can I some how tar it to the other box directly? sure you can, look at netcat (nc under redhat) on the server: tar -czpvf - | nc -l -p and on the client nc server | tar -czvf - NOTE: make sure you have a backup and test this beforehand. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Nov 19 16:03:22 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <2718.65.116.187.220.1069270579.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: Depending on your disk space, you can make a tar file or you could just do it over a network. You should shut down things like databases before doing anything below. There may be other things you want to stop depending on how intact you want your log files, etc to be. If you have a CD Burner handy, grab the LNX-BBC (http://www.lnx-bbc.org/). You're life will be much easier. Partition the disk in your target PC how you want it, then get it all mounted. I don't remember if the LNX-BBC includes a NFS server or not, but I think it does. Boot up the LNX-BBC on your target PC, get your network going on the target pc (run trivial-net-setup, then /etc/init.d/portmap start), edit /etc/exports to export the disk that you've partitioned and formated, and then mounted somewhere under /mnt... /mnt/rw/target/ 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0(ro,insecure,no_root__squash) On the RedHat box: mount -t nfs XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX:/mnt/rw/target /mnt/new-pc where XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX is the ip you gave the target PC. Now: cd / tar cvf - bin/ etc/ usr/ boot/ opt/ root/ var/ home/ lib/ sbin/ initrd/ |(cd /mnt/new-pc; tar xvf -) (Doing it this way is mostly a hack to get around incompatible command switches in the GNU version of tar and the version of tar that was shipped on say, a Solaris or IRIX box. There are different ways to do it, but this works on almost any UNIX AFAIK....) You want to leave out areas like /mnt/, /dev/, and /proc/, as these are automatically generated (double check that your RedHat install uses devfs, otherwise you might want to throw dev in...) Make sure that if you don't tar these directories that you do actually create the directories of the virtual filesystems will fail to mount. A few NFS timeouts later, every thing should be copied over. Fix /etc/fstab, module config, and anything else that would be different with LNX-BBC, and reboot. Use your RedHat install media as a rescue CD, bring up your box in single user mode, do a grub-install /dev/hda, and you should be in business more or less. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Nov 19 16:18:16 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <3530.65.116.187.220.1069279576.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > Oops, I forgot to say that I can have the boxes off-line for a couple of > hours and nobody would care. If you can have the box offline, pull the disk out of B, put it in A, boot with Tom's, mount all the partitions of A and cp them over to B's drive. That's the fastest and safest, but least creative :-) -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Wed Nov 19 16:15:32 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <3164.65.116.187.220.1069277227.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > Tar to a temporary drive? or can I some how tar it to the other box directly? You can move the disk from B to A, use a Samba or NFS share, or even go for the 'ghetto ghost' method of using netcat (search the TCLUG archives for ghetto ghost). There's plenty of ways to do things in *nix. > I'm using GRUB for the bootloader, would I just need to modify the > grub.conf file or is there something else that I would have to change? Grub is mostly self healing, you'll want to chack your grub settings before attempting a boot. Also, you may get grub geometry errors, which basically means a rebuild of grub. Just make sure box B boots before cutting it over :-) -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Nov 19 16:30:32 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall Message-ID: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> I installed IPCop several months ago and have not actually got it fully working. I know I'm really close but I'm still trying to learn this dang networking stuff so I don't quite have that last bit of knowledge. So, at the moment I have my modem connected to my main Linux box with a shorewall firewall running on it. That works fine and I could continue to use that but I want to learn. I can access IPCop via its web interface and I have set IPCop to dial on demand for DNS but I have not been able to get my main Linux box to demand DNS from IPCop. IPCop is configured to dial out and connect to my ISP, that works fine but when I try to access the net from my main Linux box, I don't get DNS. I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver entry but that does not get recognized. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff rick@eworld3.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Nov 19 16:27:08 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Won't there be a problem with the fstab having things like "/dev/sda" moving to a machine with things like /dev/hda? Going from SCSI to IDE, remember. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Nov 19 16:23:28 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: References: <3164.65.116.187.220.1069277227.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20031119222328.GA5440@refried.org> On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 04:03:23PM -0600, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > > Tar to a temporary drive? or can I some how tar it to the other box directly? > > sure you can, look at netcat (nc under redhat) > > on the server: > tar -czpvf - | nc -l -p > > and on the client > nc server | tar -czvf - I think you want tar -xzvf on this end. If you have a fast network connection or a slow processor you might want to drop the -z on both ends. BTW, -p is useless on the create side. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Nov 19 16:34:49 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, bad advice. Just booted up the LNX-BBC and it doesn't include a NFS server, so I have to change my instructions a bit. On your current Red Hat box, install the NFS server and export / to the IP of your target PC: /etc/exports: / 192.168.1.25/255.255.255.0(ro,insecure,no_root_squash) Now restart NFSD. /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart would do it on a Debian box, but on a Red Hat box it won't be the same. Again, shut down databases and such. Now then, boot up your target PC (the PC you want to copy stuff too.) on the LNX-BBC. Run trivial-net-setup, then /etc/init.d/portmap start. The disk in the target PC will be mounted something like /dev/discs/disc0/part1 on /mnt/rw/discs/disc0/part1 /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /mnt/rw/discs/disc0/part2 etc. Unmount all these, mount as something that sorta mirrors what the mount points will look like when the box is running: /dev/discs/disc0/part1 on /mnt/rw/target (this would be /) /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /mnt/rw/target/usr /dev/discs/disc0/part3 on /mnt/rw/target/var etc as needed. Now you want ot mount your Red Hat box on your target PC: Create a mount point: mkdir /mnt/rw/host mount -t nfs XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX:/ /mnt/rw/host where XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX is the IP of the old PC. Now to finish it all up: cd /mrt/rw/host tar cvf - bin/ etc/ usr/ boot/ opt/ root/ var/ home/ lib/ sbin/ initrd/ |(cd /mnt/target; tar xvf -) Create mount points for dev, proc, whatever else, and use rescue mode in your Red Hat install media to write grub to the disk, and you should be in business... Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 19 16:43:15 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought about WS3, but I'm not interested in paying for it. I don't mind learning the tweaks and stuff. I reinstalled DOS and Windows more times then I can count when I first started learning. But I'll keep the WS in mind. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:22 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] New to list with a question I'm also new to the list... RE performance... I was running RH9.0 and DMA wouldn't work on my Inspiron 8500 2.2 gig laptop w/o tweaking (finding the right module for my controller and compiling it). This made it DOG slow, it was night and day afterwards.. FWIW, I am now on RHEL WS3.0 and the controller was recognized right away. Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Clay Fandre Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:57 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New to list with a question The first thing you should do is configure hdparm. I'm not sure if RH9 configures it or not, but if it doesn't, it helps a lot. http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to > expand my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, > IRIX and > FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the > Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as > well as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) > > I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB > HDD, that I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with > FreeBSD for awhile, I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop > environments with KDE becoming my personal preference. > > With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit > sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially > current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other > suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I > should expect out of a PIII 750. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Wed Nov 19 17:09:19 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What kernel are you running.. As of 03-06-03 - The IDE patches are integrated into the RedHat 2.4.20-13.9 kernel update So you can just rpm in a new kernel. You can see if yours is working with (hdparm -t /dev/hda) You should get nearly 30mb/s as opposed to the low single digits... Anyhow.. You might find this links useful though not the exact model of laptop. http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/G.Wilford/Inspiron8500/ Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:43 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] New to list with a question I thought about WS3, but I'm not interested in paying for it. I don't mind learning the tweaks and stuff. I reinstalled DOS and Windows more times then I can count when I first started learning. But I'll keep the WS in mind. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:22 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] New to list with a question I'm also new to the list... RE performance... I was running RH9.0 and DMA wouldn't work on my Inspiron 8500 2.2 gig laptop w/o tweaking (finding the right module for my controller and compiling it). This made it DOG slow, it was night and day afterwards.. FWIW, I am now on RHEL WS3.0 and the controller was recognized right away. Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Clay Fandre Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:57 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New to list with a question The first thing you should do is configure hdparm. I'm not sure if RH9 configures it or not, but if it doesn't, it helps a lot. http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to > expand my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, > IRIX and > FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the > Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as > well as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) > > I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB > HDD, that I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with > FreeBSD for awhile, I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop > environments with KDE becoming my personal preference. > > With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit > sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially > current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other > suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I > should expect out of a PIII 750. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Wed Nov 19 17:19:20 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: References: <3164.65.116.187.220.1069277227.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20031119231920.GA14109@fandre.com> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Jim Streit wrote: > > > Tar to a temporary drive? or can I some how tar it to the other box directly? > > sure you can, look at netcat (nc under redhat) > > on the server: > tar -czpvf - | nc -l -p > > and on the client > nc server | tar -czvf - > > NOTE: make sure you have a backup and test this beforehand. Or else via ssh: $ ssh sourcesystem "tar czpvf - dir" | tar xf - or $ tar czpvf - dir | ssh destinationsystem "tar xf -" Yea, it will be slower then nc because of the overhead of ssh, but you can do it in one shot and it will be secure too. Personally I use rsync in verbose mode so I can see what's going on. Plus you can restart it if it dies without restarting the entire copy again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 19 17:37:11 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New to list with a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c3aef6$0e48dd70$6401a8c0@angelfire> I'll have to look... But it's the most recent from RH, 2.4.20-20.9 I think... I'm looking at recompiling it with the sources for 2.4.22. Hdparm appears to be a rpm in RH... I'll have to see how its running... It might not be the HDD alone.. Thanks for the heads up. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 5:09 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] New to list with a question What kernel are you running.. As of 03-06-03 - The IDE patches are integrated into the RedHat 2.4.20-13.9 kernel update So you can just rpm in a new kernel. You can see if yours is working with (hdparm -t /dev/hda) You should get nearly 30mb/s as opposed to the low single digits... Anyhow.. You might find this links useful though not the exact model of laptop. http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/G.Wilford/Inspiron8500/ Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:43 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] New to list with a question I thought about WS3, but I'm not interested in paying for it. I don't mind learning the tweaks and stuff. I reinstalled DOS and Windows more times then I can count when I first started learning. But I'll keep the WS in mind. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:22 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: RE: [TCLUG] New to list with a question I'm also new to the list... RE performance... I was running RH9.0 and DMA wouldn't work on my Inspiron 8500 2.2 gig laptop w/o tweaking (finding the right module for my controller and compiling it). This made it DOG slow, it was night and day afterwards.. FWIW, I am now on RHEL WS3.0 and the controller was recognized right away. Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Clay Fandre Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:57 PM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: Re: [TCLUG] New to list with a question The first thing you should do is configure hdparm. I'm not sure if RH9 configures it or not, but if it doesn't, it helps a lot. http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2000/06/29/hdparm.html On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to the TCLUG list. I'm a M$ Network admin, who's wanting to > expand my knowledge back into the *nix world. I've worked with AIX, > IRIX and > FreeBSD in the past, but only breifly. So now I going to dive into the > Linux world. Since I'm doing this to expand my business knowledge as > well as personal, I've decided to use Red Hat 9. (no flames plz) > > I have a Dell C600 Latitude laptop, PIII 750 - 256MB RAM and 40 GB > HDD, that I'm dedicating to running linux. Back when I played with > FreeBSD for awhile, I looked at both GNOME and KDE as desktop > environments with KDE becoming my personal preference. > > With just the default installs from RH with updates, KDE seems a bit > sluggish. I know recompiling the kernel will be a good idea, especially > current code since RH is behind. But, I'm looking for any other > suggestions as to increase performance or what kind of performance I > should expect out of a PIII 750. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Nov 19 18:40:42 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Beer Meeting Friday (?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031120004042.GM19336@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Wed Nov 19 19:22:13 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net>; from rick@eworld3.net on Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 04:30:32PM -0600 References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> What happens if you put your ISP's DNS servers in :/etc/resolv.conf? do name lookups work then if dialed up through the IPcop box? Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I installed IPCop several months ago and have not actually got it fully > working. I know I'm really close but I'm still trying to learn this dang > networking stuff so I don't quite have that last bit of knowledge. > > So, at the moment I have my modem connected to my main Linux box with a > shorewall firewall running on it. That works fine and I could continue > to use that but I want to learn. > > I can access IPCop via its web interface and I have set IPCop to dial on > demand for DNS but I have not been able to get my main Linux box to > demand DNS from IPCop. IPCop is configured to dial out and connect to my > ISP, that works fine but when I try to access the net from my main Linux > box, I don't get DNS. > > I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver > entry but that does not get recognized. > -- > Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff > rick@eworld3.net > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Wed Nov 19 19:27:44 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Windowing/desktop - KDE or Gnome? In-Reply-To: <1069188906.3fba872a6be35@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: > Quoting PHPTOm : > > > I use KDE often for some tasks. I have had issues with > Konqueror crashing. > > And a couple other things. Is Gnome a more stable program? I > like KDE, but > > I am willing to switch if I get less crashes. > > What distribution are you running? > > What version of kde are you using? > > Do you take the time to submit bug reports to the kde developers? > > I running kde from kde-redhat and it is very solid. >From earlier: >I am using 3.1 It crashes when I am viewing the file system. It's like if >I have too many directory trees open. I use mozilla for the web. I submitted a bug report some time back. I figured they didn't need the same one over and over again. TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Wed Nov 19 20:19:07 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? Message-ID: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K dedicated bandwidth. any success or horror stories folks have had would be greatly appreciated. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bmaas at open-techsys.com Wed Nov 19 20:39:32 2003 From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <200311192039.32087.bmaas@open-techsys.com> On Wednesday 19 November 2003 08:19 pm, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin > Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K > dedicated bandwidth. > > any success or horror stories folks have had would be greatly > appreciated. I've had friends and/or direct experience with both Onvoy and Inflow. Both have done a good a job. -- Ben Maas - Technology Architect Open Technology Systems, LLC ----------------------------------------------------------- eMail: bmaas@open-techsys.com Web: http://www.open-techsys.com Phone: 952.448.3121 Fax: 952.448.4944 Cell: 612.743.3674 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Wed Nov 19 21:42:20 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> On Wednesday 19 November 2003 04:30 pm, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver > entry but that does not get recognized. On the IPCop box, you should have the modem set up as the RED "interface" and the network as the GREEN. I assume this is all correct and that you set up the IPCop box to use your ISP's DNS servers. When you log in to the IPCop box through the web interface, you need to turn on the caching DNS server. I think it's under the "Services" menu. You can see if it's running or not on the "Information" page. If this doesn't work, I would start troubleshooting the actual networking. Make sure you can ping the box and IP addresses on the outside as well. Make sure the Mandrake box is pointing to the IPCop box as its gateway, otherwise it will still try to use the modem which is no longer connected to it. --Andy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Wed Nov 19 22:18:29 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <20031119192902.GB30415@fandre.com> References: <200311190244.hAJ2iMY12423@crusader.real-time.com> <20031119192902.GB30415@fandre.com> Message-ID: <16316.16533.835685.471612@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Yep, I got two people wanting it this morning, so I removed the ad so I don't get anymore emails about it. >>>>> "CF" == Clay Fandre writes: CF> This is no longer in the classifieds. Did someone actually want this? CF> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >> New TCLUG Classified Ad >> >> Category: Computer >> >> Type of Ad: For Free >> >> Subject: Sun 3/50 >> >> Sun 3/50 pizzabox form factor >> 20" Black and White monitor >> ~600MB SCSI hard drive >> SCSI tape drive with tapes >> Keyboard >> Optical Mouse >> SunOS 4.5.1 (latest version that will run on it) >> Will deliver in the Twin Cities. >> >> http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi >> CF> _______________________________________________ CF> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota CF> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org CF> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 19 22:20:12 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1350.192.168.70.40.1069302012.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> THIS LIST ROCKS! I want to thank (in no order) Andy, Clay, Munir, Nate, Brian and Chris for helping me with options on how to move my system from box A to box B. The switch is done and works great. I did my mounts, made some copies (took most of the time), made the grub changes, then the first re-boot redhat detected different controller, nic and usb devices, and asked if i wanted to use the devices that it found and re-use the network settings. I said sure, rebooted a couple more times just to make sure, and now about 2 hours after starting I have the same system on different hardware. Sendmail, Apache, PHP, named, MySQL, rsync, ftp, my own custom stuff ... it all works. I'm stoked! Thanks again TCLUG List. Jim Streit > Ok, bad advice. Just booted up the LNX-BBC and it doesn't include a NFS > server, so I have to change my instructions a bit. > > On your current Red Hat box, install the NFS server and export / to the > IP of your target PC: > > /etc/exports: > / 192.168.1.25/255.255.255.0(ro,insecure,no_root_squash) > > Now restart NFSD. /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart would do it on a > Debian box, but on a Red Hat box it won't be the same. Again, shut down > databases and such. > > Now then, boot up your target PC (the PC you want to copy stuff too.) on > the LNX-BBC. Run trivial-net-setup, then /etc/init.d/portmap start. The > disk in the target PC will be mounted something like > /dev/discs/disc0/part1 on /mnt/rw/discs/disc0/part1 > /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /mnt/rw/discs/disc0/part2 > etc. > > Unmount all these, mount as something that sorta mirrors what the mount > points will look like when the box is running: > > /dev/discs/disc0/part1 on /mnt/rw/target (this would be /) > /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /mnt/rw/target/usr > /dev/discs/disc0/part3 on /mnt/rw/target/var > > etc as needed. > > Now you want ot mount your Red Hat box on your target PC: > > Create a mount point: > mkdir /mnt/rw/host > mount -t nfs XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX:/ /mnt/rw/host > where XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX is the IP of the old PC. > > Now to finish it all up: > cd /mrt/rw/host > tar cvf - bin/ etc/ usr/ boot/ opt/ root/ var/ home/ lib/ sbin/ > initrd/ |(cd /mnt/target; tar xvf -) > > Create mount points for dev, proc, whatever else, and use rescue mode in > your Red Hat install media to write grub to the disk, and you should be > in business... > > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 23:20:27 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Box swap In-Reply-To: <1350.192.168.70.40.1069302012.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <1350.192.168.70.40.1069302012.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <1069305627.2537.0.camel@localhost> Try that on a windows machine, lol On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 22:20, Jim Streit wrote: > THIS LIST ROCKS! > > I want to thank (in no order) Andy, Clay, Munir, Nate, Brian and Chris for > helping me with options on how to move my system from box A to box B. The > switch is done and works great. > > I did my mounts, made some copies (took most of the time), made the grub > changes, then the first re-boot redhat detected different controller, nic > and usb devices, and asked if i wanted to use the devices that it found > and re-use the network settings. I said sure, rebooted a couple more > times just to make sure, and now about 2 hours after starting I have the > same system on different hardware. Sendmail, Apache, PHP, named, MySQL, > rsync, ftp, my own custom stuff ... it all works. I'm stoked! > > Thanks again TCLUG List. > > Jim Streit > > > > Ok, bad advice. Just booted up the LNX-BBC and it doesn't include a NFS > > server, so I have to change my instructions a bit. > > > > On your current Red Hat box, install the NFS server and export / to the > > IP of your target PC: > > > > /etc/exports: > > / 192.168.1.25/255.255.255.0(ro,insecure,no_root_squash) > > > > Now restart NFSD. /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart would do it on a > > Debian box, but on a Red Hat box it won't be the same. Again, shut down > > databases and such. > > > > Now then, boot up your target PC (the PC you want to copy stuff too.) on > > the LNX-BBC. Run trivial-net-setup, then /etc/init.d/portmap start. The > > disk in the target PC will be mounted something like > > /dev/discs/disc0/part1 on /mnt/rw/discs/disc0/part1 > > /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /mnt/rw/discs/disc0/part2 > > etc. > > > > Unmount all these, mount as something that sorta mirrors what the mount > > points will look like when the box is running: > > > > /dev/discs/disc0/part1 on /mnt/rw/target (this would be /) > > /dev/discs/disc0/part2 on /mnt/rw/target/usr > > /dev/discs/disc0/part3 on /mnt/rw/target/var > > > > etc as needed. > > > > Now you want ot mount your Red Hat box on your target PC: > > > > Create a mount point: > > mkdir /mnt/rw/host > > mount -t nfs XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX:/ /mnt/rw/host > > where XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX is the IP of the old PC. > > > > Now to finish it all up: > > cd /mrt/rw/host > > tar cvf - bin/ etc/ usr/ boot/ opt/ root/ var/ home/ lib/ sbin/ > > initrd/ |(cd /mnt/target; tar xvf -) > > > > Create mount points for dev, proc, whatever else, and use rescue mode in > > your Red Hat install media to write grub to the disk, and you should be > > in business... > > > > > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org > > A password is like your underwear; Change it > > frequently, don't share it with others, and > > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 23:31:09 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FBC519D.2000506@comcast.net> I'm with Scott on this one. The IPCOP machine may know your ISP's DNS servers, but chances are your Mandrake box does not, all is see's is the IPCOP box, but it doesn't know any DNS info. You need to tell your Mandrake box where to get it's DNS info, which would be your ISP's DNS server IP addresses. Scot Jenkins wrote: > What happens if you put your ISP's DNS servers in > :/etc/resolv.conf? do name lookups work then if dialed up > through the IPcop box? > > Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >>I installed IPCop several months ago and have not actually got it fully >>working. I know I'm really close but I'm still trying to learn this dang >> networking stuff so I don't quite have that last bit of knowledge. >> >>So, at the moment I have my modem connected to my main Linux box with a >>shorewall firewall running on it. That works fine and I could continue >>to use that but I want to learn. >> >>I can access IPCop via its web interface and I have set IPCop to dial on >>demand for DNS but I have not been able to get my main Linux box to >>demand DNS from IPCop. IPCop is configured to dial out and connect to my >>ISP, that works fine but when I try to access the net from my main Linux >>box, I don't get DNS. >> >>I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver >>entry but that does not get recognized. >>-- >>Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff >>rick@eworld3.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Wed Nov 19 23:49:05 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBC519D.2000506@comcast.net>; from auditodd@comcast.net on Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:31:09PM -0600 References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> <3FBC519D.2000506@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031119234905.A29374@thinkunix.net> Todd Young wrote: > I'm with Scott on this one. The IPCOP machine may know your ISP's DNS > servers, but chances are your Mandrake box does not, all is see's is the > IPCOP box, but it doesn't know any DNS info. You need to tell your > Mandrake box where to get it's DNS info, which would be your ISP's DNS > server IP addresses. that is unless your Mandrake box is getting it's IP address from the IPcop firewall via DHCP, in which case it should get the DNS servers from the DHCP server (presumably running on the IPcop box). -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Nov 20 00:25:41 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <20031119234905.A29374@thinkunix.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> <3FBC519D.2000506@comcast.net> <20031119234905.A29374@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FBC5E65.6080101@comcast.net> Ah, but not necessarily so. I installed an embedded Linux firewall/modem for my father, the Actiontec DualPC modem. The Linux firewall/modem knew the DNS servers for the ISP and was providing DHCP for my father's PC, but I was still having problems getting to some sites. Once I added the ISP DNS server's IP addresses to the PC, then the problem was gone. Now I'll grant you that the PC is running WinXP, not Linux, but it was still a simple matter of making sure the box inside the firewall knows which DNS servers it should "query". And then again, I could be totally off base. But hey, it's worth a shot. :-) Scot Jenkins wrote: > Todd Young wrote: > >>I'm with Scott on this one. The IPCOP machine may know your ISP's DNS >>servers, but chances are your Mandrake box does not, all is see's is the >>IPCOP box, but it doesn't know any DNS info. You need to tell your >>Mandrake box where to get it's DNS info, which would be your ISP's DNS >>server IP addresses. > > > that is unless your Mandrake box is getting it's IP address from the > IPcop firewall via DHCP, in which case it should get the DNS servers > from the DHCP server (presumably running on the IPcop box). > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Nov 19 00:24:57 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnny fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> Message-ID: Log into the IPCOP web interface, Click services on the left, then click DHCP server on the top. On my cop box the Primary DNS server is 192.168.1.1 (itself). This is was gets tossed to my dhcp clients on my LAN - IPCOP itself is a DHCP client of my ISP ... badda bing - it all works! On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:30:32 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I installed IPCop several months ago and have not actually got it fully > working. I know I'm really close but I'm still trying to learn this dang > networking stuff so I don't quite have that last bit of knowledge. > > So, at the moment I have my modem connected to my main Linux box with a > shorewall firewall running on it. That works fine and I could continue > to use that but I want to learn. > > I can access IPCop via its web interface and I have set IPCop to dial on > demand for DNS but I have not been able to get my main Linux box to > demand DNS from IPCop. IPCop is configured to dial out and connect to my > ISP, that works fine but when I try to access the net from my main Linux > box, I don't get DNS. > > I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver > entry but that does not get recognized. -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 00:57:39 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FBC65E3.9020901@visi.com> Hutman is a good place, real nice people. A company I work with (Resolution-inc.com) has a machine co-located with them. I just talked to them today to setup a DSL router. Same technical support guy that was there 5 years ago when we setup a fractional T1 at the office. http://www.hutman.net/ Sam. Scot Jenkins wrote: >Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin >Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K >dedicated bandwidth. > >any success or horror stories folks have had would be greatly >appreciated. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 01:01:59 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new to list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBC66E7.3010501@visi.com> Go to the Beer meeting, it's a great way to say hi! Sam. begging off, no beer $, because of no job... :-( Sam. Matt Murphy wrote: > Hi, just wanted to introduce myself, I'm a network admin at a small biopharmeceutical fluid handling supply company in the twin cities. I'm diving into linux seriously for the first time, but I've been admining windows of various sorts for about 6 years. I'm building a web-based project management system in php & mysql, and I'm really impressed with how far Linux has come in the past couple years, though there's certainly still areas that are a bit mind-boggling. I'll have plenty of questions for the list soon enough, but for now I thought I'd just introduce myself. > >Matt > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 01:12:37 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! Message-ID: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com> I have a laptop that's real nice now, it isn't state of the art but it's a lot better then the 486/25 I've had for years. It's a Micron TransPort XKE Pentium 266 MMX 64 mb RAM (gona need mo ram!) [196mb max] 4 GIG hard disk (I can have KDE :-D ) CDROM :-) Floppy Drive 2 PCMCIA -56k Modem and 10BaseT :-) NeoMagic 128 XD (only 2 mb RAM :-( ) 13.3 inch active matrix LCD that does 1024x768 :-) USB 8-) PS2 mouse and keyboard :-) a touch pad, hmmmmm.... (not sure if thats good or not) a track point, yuck... (just my opinion) To put a battery in it I have to take out the floppy drive. I wonder how Linux will take a missing floppy drive? I installed Redhat 8 because I have the CD's, that doesn't mean I want to stay with it. First, X Windows is slow on this machine, it looks nice but it crawls. If I went to Redhat 6 I bet it would scream. Maybe it's just me but I haven't liked any version of Redhat sense 6.X because X windows crawls. The only thing that doesn't work is the sound (one of the things I really wanted) so I'm off to look for "sndconfig"... Mmmmm "Chicago, 25 or 6 to 4" got sound :-) I'm almost a happy camper I need a distribution that will run X Windows faster. Maybe at an install fest I can do some testing. The hard disk is easy to swap, that's a good thing. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Thu Nov 20 01:34:46 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? Message-ID: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows instead. -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Sk3tch at sk3tch.net Thu Nov 20 03:27:32 2003 From: Sk3tch at sk3tch.net (Sk3tch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From joel at joelschneider.net Thu Nov 20 06:16:10 2003 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 01:12:37AM -0600 References: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031120061610.A28435@joelschneider.net> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 01:12:37AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Pentium 266 MMX > 64 mb RAM (gona need mo ram!) [196mb max] > > Maybe it's just me but I haven't liked any version of Redhat sense 6.X > because X windows crawls. I have a similar machine (233 MMX, 96MB) at home. Gnome and KDE run painfully slowly, but WindowMaker runs fast. Fvwm2 is another X window manager that should run fast on this machine. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net Linux makes computing fun again. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Thu Nov 20 06:47:37 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> Well, what he really said was that your Grandma should use Windows. That way she can spend 3 hours talking to Microsoft's tech support when she gets lonely because you're not visiting her because you're playing Everquest all the time. ;-) My personal belief is that Linux will be ready for home use when somebody figures out how to fix permissions problems. It shouldn't be this hard. I installed a DVD player recently and it didn't work. Why? Permissions on /dev/dvd. My daughter can't play games when she logs in with her login. Why? Permissions problem on /dev/dsp. Setup my mom's printer and it didn't work. Why? Permissions problem. It's ridiculous. There should be an automatic system that checks permissions, sets up a group or series of groups for access to these resources and offers to add you to the necessary group if given a root password. Brady > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html > > Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they > don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows > instead. > > -- > Justin Kremer > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Nov 20 06:49:10 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Politech] Stupid Senate Tricks: Mark Dayton says emailtax will kill spam References: Message-ID: <3FBCB846.1000700@structural-wood.com> Michael wrote: > > As a new member to the TCLUG email list, looking to learn more about Linux > and those who use it in the Twin Cities area, > I, personally, find it abit annoying to have a political debate, aka flame > war, going on. > > Although, I'm willing to give the list abit more time to see if it has > value, many I have been on don't. There are others who would leave without > saying anything. > > I am all for freedom of speech and opinion, which this is, but there are > more appropriate black holes on the internet for this type of discussion. > > And if my honesty in my opinion has offened people... Deal with it..... > > > IMHO > As a possible solution to the problem noted above, I propose that we tax postings to mailing lists. Mark _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 08:06:19 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> Message-ID: <3FBCCA5B.8040601@visi.com> Sounds like Redhat does not want to have a desktop, that server is the only thing they want to support. I can't say as I blame them because the average person that uses a computer could not read a "how to" or "man page" without having an aneurysm. Phone support is training on the phone and it always has been. The cost for doing this is just to high, and don't send it to another country just to reduce costs. Oop's to late, IBM did that, go work at McDonald's. Sam. Brady Hegberg wrote: >Well, what he really said was that your Grandma should use Windows. >That way she can spend 3 hours talking to Microsoft's tech support when >she gets lonely because you're not visiting her because you're playing >Everquest all the time. ;-) > > >My personal belief is that Linux will be ready for home use when >somebody figures out how to fix permissions problems. It shouldn't be >this hard. I installed a DVD player recently and it didn't work. Why? >Permissions on /dev/dvd. My daughter can't play games when she logs in >with her login. Why? Permissions problem on /dev/dsp. Setup my mom's >printer and it didn't work. Why? Permissions problem. It's >ridiculous. There should be an automatic system that checks >permissions, sets up a group or series of groups for access to these >resources and offers to add you to the necessary group if given a root >password. > > >Brady > > > >>http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html >> >>Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they >>don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows >>instead. >> >>-- >>Justin Kremer >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.alitz at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 08:14:31 2003 From: david.alitz at earthlink.net (David Alitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Has anyone else come across the Halloween documents at opensource.org? Interesting read. They seem to confirm what I've noticed about M$. It seems that M$ as adopted a policy of "de-commoditizing" protocols. Basically, it means that M$ will happily sign on to new standards and then add their own "extensions" to effectively break the standard. The crux of it is if you have M$ on the desktop you'll need their version of the protocol on your servers. Those servers probably won't be running RedHat. Certainly you noticed this with most Microsoft implementations. MS Java, Internet Explorer, MS DNS to name a few. The next generation of Office promises to do the same for XML. It isn't Microsoft's dedication to their customers that's causing them to alter these standards; it's their dedication to their shareholders. To be truthful I don't think Linux is ready for the average users desktop, but Windows on the desktop only helps M$ push it's non-standard standards on the back-end. You'd think Redhat would at least endorse Mac. Dave Alitz Justin Kremer wrote: > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html > > Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they > don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows > instead. > > -- > Justin Kremer > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 08:58:38 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> Lets see how can I put this without getting flamed... can't so here I go. IBM and Redhat = in bed together IBM and M$ = in bed together IBM and Novel = in bed together IBM and Suse = in bed together If IBM in bed with Redhat and IBM in bed with M$ then Redhat in bed with M$ If IBM in bed with everyone and IBM financing everyone then IBM owns everyone endif IBM believes in UNIX/ Linux for the server and M$ for the desktop. IBM is the largest technology company in the world, they have huge power in the industry, they have huge numbers of lawyers, do you think maybe they only care about profits. Stop thinking IBM is a company that wants to help Linux, if Linux was not making money for them they would try to sink Linux. Just my opinion... Putting on fire proof suit, boots, and helmet, picking up fire extinguisher, standing in Lake Superior! Tucking head between legs and kissing @$$ good by! Sam. David Alitz wrote: > Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! > > Has anyone else come across the Halloween documents at > opensource.org? Interesting read. They seem to confirm what I've > noticed about M$. It seems that M$ as adopted a policy of > "de-commoditizing" protocols. Basically, it means that M$ will > happily sign on to new standards and then add their own "extensions" > to effectively break the standard. The crux of it is if you have M$ > on the desktop you'll need their version of the protocol on your > servers. Those servers probably won't be running RedHat. > > Certainly you noticed this with most Microsoft implementations. MS > Java, Internet Explorer, MS DNS to name a few. The next generation of > Office promises to do the same for XML. It isn't Microsoft's > dedication to their customers that's causing them to alter these > standards; it's their dedication to their shareholders. > > To be truthful I don't think Linux is ready for the average users > desktop, but Windows on the desktop only helps M$ push it's > non-standard standards on the back-end. You'd think Redhat would at > least endorse Mac. > > Dave Alitz > > Justin Kremer wrote: > >> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html >> >> Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they >> don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows >> instead. >> >> -- >> Justin Kremer >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Thu Nov 20 08:44:24 2003 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Thu Nov 20 08:58:39 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: *at home*, in which case, I agree. On the corporate desktop you have IT professionals making sure that the few applications that are needed for the business are working, and possibly even making sure nothing else does. Linux is still lagging in terms of depth of applications and devices that support it, and will continue to until it's taken over the corporate sector, as windows did many years ago. Matt >Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows instead. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Nov 20 09:16:16 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBCDAC0.2020700@druswanderings.net> Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > applications. She has, however, sort of complained about font sizes and > tabbed browsing, after I ask her on how her experience was. That's got to be the first time I've ever heard about any one *complaining* about tabbed browsing. I used to use Opera just for that feature (the mouse gestures were pretty cool too). Now I'm a Mozilla guy but wouldn't do without my tabs. I love tabs!! Fluxbox has tabs! I love Fluxbox! er... um... sorry. Heck one of these days I'll probably end up using one of the tab-based console-style DEs that run in X. Too bad I'm such a sucker for eye candy. ;-) -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Thu Nov 20 09:25:04 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree. Linux could easily do everything our corporate users do, and would save us a ton of time not have to uninstall things like WeatherBug and all the spyware that gets installed. Not to mention users screwing things up while "customizing" their pcs. (I know Windoze has ways to enforce policies and so on, but they are rough kludgy in my opinion, and seemingly rarely implemented.) Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net 651-604-2758 -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Matt Murphy Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:59 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? *at home*, in which case, I agree. On the corporate desktop you have IT professionals making sure that the few applications that are needed for the business are working, and possibly even making sure nothing else does. Linux is still lagging in terms of depth of applications and devices that support it, and will continue to until it's taken over the corporate sector, as windows did many years ago. Matt >Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows instead. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Nov 20 10:03:24 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <20031120061610.A28435@joelschneider.net>; from joel@joelschneider.net on Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 06:16:10AM -0600 References: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com> <20031120061610.A28435@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: <20031120100324.A7618@thinkunix.net> Joel Schneider wrote: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 01:12:37AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Pentium 266 MMX > > 64 mb RAM (gona need mo ram!) [196mb max] > > > > Maybe it's just me but I haven't liked any version of Redhat sense 6.X > > because X windows crawls. > > I have a similar machine (233 MMX, 96MB) at home. Gnome and KDE run > painfully slowly, but WindowMaker runs fast. Fvwm2 is another X window > manager that should run fast on this machine. mwm is another light window manager; extremely basic and easy to configure (if you don't mind editing a couple files). It's part of lesstif: http://www.lesstif.org/ -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 20 10:11:45 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <20031119234905.A29374@thinkunix.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> <3FBC519D.2000506@comcast.net> <20031119234905.A29374@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FBCE7C1.20209@eworld3.net> Is this what you mean, because it doesn't work: domain localdomain # i think i need this? nameserver 206.144.175.121 # ISPs primary DNS server nameserver 206.144.175.124 # ISPs secondary DNS server nameserver 192.168.1.3 #IPCop I would like to have IPCop do DHCP (more learning). I can see the DNS proxy server and DHCP server running on the IPcop info page. Under "services" I have the start and end addresses set as well as the primary DNS IP set to the IPCop IP. I also have set the MAC & IP addresses of Mandrake, IPCop and W2k. Oh, I have /etc/hosts entries on Mandrake, will they get in the way? Did I mention that I'm sorta clueless when it comes to networking. I'm working with this to try to get a clue. How did you guys know that I'm using Mandrake? I didn't mention it in my post. Scot Jenkins wrote: > Todd Young wrote: > >>I'm with Scott on this one. The IPCOP machine may know your ISP's DNS >>servers, but chances are your Mandrake box does not, all is see's is the >>IPCOP box, but it doesn't know any DNS info. You need to tell your >>Mandrake box where to get it's DNS info, which would be your ISP's DNS >>server IP addresses. > > > that is unless your Mandrake box is getting it's IP address from the > IPcop firewall via DHCP, in which case it should get the DNS servers > from the DHCP server (presumably running on the IPcop box). > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Nov 20 10:13:06 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <20031120100324.A7618@thinkunix.net> References: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com> <20031120061610.A28435@joelschneider.net> <20031120100324.A7618@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20031120161306.GD21392@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 10:03:24AM -0600, Scot Jenkins wrote: > mwm is another light window manager; extremely basic and easy to > configure (if you don't mind editing a couple files). It's part of > lesstif: http://www.lesstif.org/ bah, who needs window managers? real men just load a single full screen xterm =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From escargo at skypoint.com Thu Nov 20 10:16:58 2003 From: escargo at skypoint.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <20031120061610.A28435@joelschneider.net> References: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com> <20031120061610.A28435@joelschneider.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:16:10 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 01:12:37AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> Pentium 266 MMX >> 64 mb RAM (gona need mo ram!) [196mb max] >> >> Maybe it's just me but I haven't liked any version of Redhat sense 6.X >> because X windows crawls. > >I have a similar machine (233 MMX, 96MB) at home. Gnome and KDE run >painfully slowly, but WindowMaker runs fast. Fvwm2 is another X window >manager that should run fast on this machine. I have been a happy user of Blackbox for years, decent performance even on a 386 with 16MB of RAM (http://blackboxwm.sourceforge.net/). Now I use it even with Cygwin on a Windows XP machine (as well as all my Linux machines including my firewall box, which is a Pentium-75 with 48MB. escargo David S. Cargo (escargo@skypoint.com) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 20 10:24:44 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FBCEACC.9070801@eworld3.net> johnny fulcrum wrote: > Log into the IPCOP web interface, Click services on the left, then click > DHCP server on the top. On my cop box the Primary DNS server is > 192.168.1.1 (itself). This is was gets tossed to my dhcp clients on my > LAN - IPCOP itself is a DHCP client of my ISP ... badda bing - it all > works! I don't understand what you mean when you say that IPCop is a DHCP client of your ISP. Do you mean that the IPCop box gets it's IP dynamically assigned? I certainly don't have the "it all works!" part. ;-) > > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:30:32 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff > wrote: > >> I installed IPCop several months ago and have not actually got it >> fully working. I know I'm really close but I'm still trying to learn >> this dang networking stuff so I don't quite have that last bit of >> knowledge. >> >> So, at the moment I have my modem connected to my main Linux box with >> a shorewall firewall running on it. That works fine and I could >> continue to use that but I want to learn. >> >> I can access IPCop via its web interface and I have set IPCop to dial >> on demand for DNS but I have not been able to get my main Linux box to >> demand DNS from IPCop. IPCop is configured to dial out and connect to >> my ISP, that works fine but when I try to access the net from my main >> Linux box, I don't get DNS. >> >> I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver >> entry but that does not get recognized. > > > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 20 10:21:29 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <>> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> Message-ID: <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> The Wandering Dru wrote: > On Wednesday 19 November 2003 04:30 pm, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > >>I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver >>entry but that does not get recognized. > > > On the IPCop box, you should have the modem set up as the RED "interface" and > the network as the GREEN. I assume this is all correct and that you set up Yup, I set that when I installed IPCop. > the IPCop box to use your ISP's DNS servers. When you log in to the IPCop Yup, on the "dialup" page, DNS section, I have the primary and secondary DNS IPs set. > box through the web interface, you need to turn on the caching DNS server. I I could not find a "caching DNS server". There is a "dynamic DNS" tab in the services section that allows you to add hosts, hmm, the "enabled" box is checked but I don't think I did that, should I "uncheck" it? > think it's under the "Services" menu. You can see if it's running or not on > the "Information" page. > > If this doesn't work, I would start troubleshooting the actual networking. > Make sure you can ping the box and IP addresses on the outside as well. Make Sorry, I know what ping is but I'm not sure what to do. > sure the Mandrake box is pointing to the IPCop box as its gateway, otherwise I don't know how to do this. > it will still try to use the modem which is no longer connected to it. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Thu Nov 20 10:34:31 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> Message-ID: <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 6:47 AM, Brady Hegberg wrote: > Well, what he really said was that your Grandma should use Windows. > That way she can spend 3 hours talking to Microsoft's tech support when > she gets lonely because you're not visiting her because you're playing > Everquest all the time. ;-) > > My personal belief is that Linux will be ready for home use when > somebody figures out how to fix permissions problems. It shouldn't be > this hard. I installed a DVD player recently and it didn't work. Why? > Permissions on /dev/dvd. My daughter can't play games when she logs in > with her login. Why? Permissions problem on /dev/dsp. Setup my mom's > man chmod Permissions are the most very basic level of security. Its the main thing that keeps users from breaking your machine. > printer and it didn't work. Why? Permissions problem. It's > ridiculous. There should be an automatic system that checks > permissions, sets up a group or series of groups for access to these > resources and offers to add you to the necessary group if given a root > password. > > > Brady > >> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html >> >> Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they >> don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows >> instead. >> >> -- >> Justin Kremer >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens U.S. Admins, Inc Server Gumby _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 20 10:43:09 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBCEF1D.6040101@eworld3.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > IBM believes in UNIX/ Linux for the server and M$ for the desktop. For some people maybe but IBM is converting all of their own corporate desktop computers to Linux. One of the people running that project said so at the Novell Linux seminar. A little Googling finds: http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/10/HNdesktopwalk_1.html "IBM Corp.'s Global Services team is getting behind Linux on the desktop, starting within IBM itself, according to Sam Docknevich, Linux and grid services executive for IBM. About 14,000 IBM employees use Linux desktops at the present time, and that number will grow to about 50,000 or 60,000 by next year, he estimated." You need a NY Times subscription to read the full article but: http://www.linux.org/news/2003/11/11/0004.html ...I.B.M. executive, Samuel J. Docknevich, delivered a speech at a technology conference outside Boston titled "The Time Is Now for Linux on the Desktop." Maybe this is all bullsh, um marketing? Time will tell. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Nov 20 10:58:04 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <3FBC6965.60107@visi.com> Message-ID: KDE is really what's killing your performance. I have a P266 MMX Crapaq laptop, and GNOME and KDE just crawl, even with 96mb ram (the max for this laptop) But blackbox + a few xterms and Mozilla Firebird or Opera isn't bad at all, and just perfect for configuring switches, routers, and some ocasional web browsing. I have a IBM usb Optical Scroll mini-mouse that I carry around with it and I love the thing. It's my second favorite after the mouse I have attached to my home PC. Get some more RAM, try some hdpram magic, drop KDE. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Nov 20 10:51:25 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:36 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20031120165125.GE21392@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 01:34:46AM -0600, Justin Kremer wrote: > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html > > Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they > don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows > instead. Well, they have something of a point (no matter how poorly they worded it) IMO, there's roughly four types of computer users in the world: A) There's the geek-ish types that can read, they have no real problem with linux that they can't work out on their own, or create a useful query for google to answer. B) There's the kiddies who can't read, they scream because you won't provide them with personal tech support, they aspire to be geeks but want to do it without going through the learning process (they eventually learn to rtfm, or go back to windows) C) There's the tinkering user who buys the 1,000 game SUPERPACK from wal-mart, plays with all the settings, clicks YES to every dialog box that pops up, and is always infected with at least 3 virus/worms/etc. (These typically are not capable of using linux, due to the solitaire megapack not running on linux. These are the people you overhear at denny's talking about how he optimized his tcp/ip stack by installing a program from cracks4us.com, and how his computer has 80GB of "memory") ^- These people are the ones that make tech support so costly, because they think they know what they're talking about, but usually do not. D) Then there's the web browsing, email using people who can get comfortable with their computer (no matter the OS) and as long as things don't change much visually between upgrades, they never really have a problem. (These are people like my mother, who runs linux, but always needs a little bit of initial behind the scenes configuration changes, like making /dev/cdrom a+rw) Corporate users are usually A B or D's, because corporate policy makes it so that the C's get fired, or learn quickly. This is why Linux will work fine for corporate desktops. For Linux to work on the home desktop it _will_ need a lot more windows compatibility for the 'C' users, the wine project has done a great job with the misc binfmt stuff (you can run './setup.exe' and it fires up wine) but there's still a little ways to go. Of course, everything will have to run as root to really make them happy, and nobody wants to do this. C & D users want the DVD that they insert to auto-play, they don't want to know what permissions are, or how to change them. They don't care what the executable name is for their media player. They don't want to be dropped to a fsck boot prompt, no matter how badly the filesystem is damaged. They don't want to see all that text flying by when they turn on the system. This is why there is not a single distro to fit everyone, it's the same reason windows is 'dumbed down', doing more things automatically (no matter how much geeks hate it). It's the same reason windows ships with so many things on by default. A & B users will use linux if they want to, because they can. C users should stick with windows, or move up the ladder. D users will take whatever the friendly neighborhood geek sets up for them, as long as it does what they need (and won't even know what OS they're using) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Nov 20 11:07:50 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:21:29 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > > The Wandering Dru wrote: >> On Wednesday 19 November 2003 04:30 pm, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >> >> >>> I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver >>> entry but that does not get recognized. >> >> >> On the IPCop box, you should have the modem set up as the RED >> "interface" and the network as the GREEN. I assume this is all correct >> and that you set up > > Yup, I set that when I installed IPCop. > >> the IPCop box to use your ISP's DNS servers. When you log in to the >> IPCop > > Yup, on the "dialup" page, DNS section, I have the primary and secondary > DNS IPs set. > >> box through the web interface, you need to turn on the caching DNS >> server. I > > I could not find a "caching DNS server". There is a "dynamic DNS" tab in > the services section that allows you to add hosts, hmm, the "enabled" > box is checked but I don't think I did that, should I "uncheck" it? > dynamic DNS is for servies like dyndns.org .... I have an "always on" cable connection. Road runner changes my dynamically assigned IP address every thirty hours or so. services like dyndns.org will update DNS with your new IP address to resolve your domain name (if you have one). >> think it's under the "Services" menu. You can see if it's running or >> not on the "Information" page. >> >> If this doesn't work, I would start troubleshooting the actual >> networking. Make sure you can ping the box and IP addresses on the >> outside as well. Make > > Sorry, I know what ping is but I'm not sure what to do. > >> sure the Mandrake box is pointing to the IPCop box as its gateway, >> otherwise > > I don't know how to do this. > >> it will still try to use the modem which is no longer connected to it. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Nov 20 10:59:36 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCDAC0.2020700@druswanderings.net> References: <3FBCDAC0.2020700@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:16:16 -0600, The Wandering Dru wrote: > Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > >> applications. She has, however, sort of complained about font sizes >> and tabbed browsing, after I ask her on how her experience was. > > That's got to be the first time I've ever heard about any one > *complaining* about tabbed browsing. > > I used to use Opera just for that feature (the mouse gestures were > pretty cool too). Now I'm a Mozilla guy but wouldn't do without my tabs. > > I love tabs!! Fluxbox has tabs! I love Fluxbox! er... um... sorry. > I'm also a sucker for eye candy, but need to learn stuff too.. I just got gentoo set up fromstage 1 - no bootstrap - pure compile from sources on everything. I'm thinking of fluxbox for my window manager ... didn't know it had tabs though - sweet! > Heck one of these days I'll probably end up using one of the tab-based > console-style DEs that run in X. Too bad I'm such a sucker for eye > candy. ;-) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Thu Nov 20 11:03:09 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBCEACC.9070801@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <3FBCEACC.9070801@eworld3.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:24:44 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > > johnny fulcrum wrote: >> Log into the IPCOP web interface, Click services on the left, then >> click DHCP server on the top. On my cop box the Primary DNS server is >> 192.168.1.1 (itself). This is was gets tossed to my dhcp clients on my >> LAN - IPCOP itself is a DHCP client of my ISP ... badda bing - it all >> works! > > I don't understand what you mean when you say that IPCop is a DHCP > client of your ISP. Do you mean that the IPCop box gets it's IP > dynamically assigned? > Yes. IPCOP gets a dynamic IP from Road Runner every 30 hours or so. > I certainly don't have the "it all works!" part. ;-) > >> :( - I have a cable connection - don't know how the dial up deals with the networking stuff. sorry. >> >> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:30:32 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff >> wrote: >> >>> I installed IPCop several months ago and have not actually got it >>> fully working. I know I'm really close but I'm still trying to learn >>> this dang networking stuff so I don't quite have that last bit of >>> knowledge. >>> >>> So, at the moment I have my modem connected to my main Linux box with >>> a shorewall firewall running on it. That works fine and I could >>> continue to use that but I want to learn. >>> >>> I can access IPCop via its web interface and I have set IPCop to dial >>> on demand for DNS but I have not been able to get my main Linux box to >>> demand DNS from IPCop. IPCop is configured to dial out and connect to >>> my ISP, that works fine but when I try to access the net from my main >>> Linux box, I don't get DNS. >>> >>> I've tried to put the IP of IPCop in /etc/resolv.conf as a nameserver >>> entry but that does not get recognized. >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 11:16:11 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> Message-ID: <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> LOLROF A home user will go back to M$ > > man chmod > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Nov 20 11:07:48 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I could not find a "caching DNS server". There is a "dynamic DNS" tab in > the services section that allows you to add hosts, hmm, the "enabled" > box is checked but I don't think I did that, should I "uncheck" it? Sorry, now that I'm somewhere with an actual IPCop box, I can be more specific(I was going from memory before). It's called "DNS proxy server" on the information page and I think it's enabled by default. Dynamic DNS is for those of us running webpages and other services out of our homes or on networks where the gateway's external IP address changes on a regular(or not-so-regular) basis. You shouldn't need that at this point since you're on dialup and aren't running external servers. > Sorry, I know what ping is but I'm not sure what to do. $ ping eg. $ ping 192.168.1.1 This should tell you if you can see the IPCop box from your linux box. (To stop it, ^c or use the -c flag to set the number of pings) Next, try pinging an address outside your network. Using an actual IP address will bypass the DNS query and will help us narrow down where the problem really is. Mandrake's webserver works as well as any for this. $ ping -c 5 212.43.244.27 > >> sure the Mandrake box is pointing to the IPCop box as its gateway, >> otherwise > > > I don't know how to do this. > The easiest way to do this is to let IPCop handle the IP addresses on the network via DHCP. You already said that DHCP was set up on IPCop. All you need to do now is to tell the MDK box to get its network information via DHCP/bootp (you can do this from MDK's Control Center). The MDK box should then automagically use the IPCop box as its gateway/DNS. The Winders box should be set up the same way. Then both of them should be happy. -- The Wandering Dru http://druswanderings.net <--- Things 'n' Such Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.alitz at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 11:21:52 2003 From: david.alitz at earthlink.net (David Alitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBCF830.5030408@earthlink.net> I have no love for IBM either. It's obvious that IBM and Linux is a marriage of convenience; but sometimes those arrangements work out. I'm afraid I don't see IBM and M$ as bedfellows. I would expect low end IBM servers to be running Windows if that were true. Of course, I'm finding it a bit incredible that RedHat would recommend Windows on the desktop. Maybe IBMs relationship is about getting RedHat to fall on their sword and make way for M$? It sounds more than a little far-fetched to me. Microsoft was my favorite back when MS-DOS broke the hold IBM had on the PC. Remember those halcyon days? PC clones offered an inexpensive alternative and had some basic programming capability built in. You could write your own solutions and didn't need to buy expensive proprietary hardware and development software like you did for the Apple computer. When it came out, Windows 3.x gave you an inexpensive GUI alternative to the expensive (and better) Apple MacIntosh. I thought Microsoft was about providing value to their customers; not the best -- but the most for your money. I guess they had me fooled. It's funny, but if you describe the same scenario today without naming the players it sounds a bit like the relation between Linux (collectively playing MS), Microsoft (in place of IBM) and Apple. I'm still in favor of the value leader, but I'm a whole lot less optimistic about their chances. Dave Alitz Sam MacDonald wrote: > Lets see how can I put this without getting flamed... can't so here I > go. > > > IBM and Redhat = in bed together > IBM and M$ = in bed together > IBM and Novel = in bed together > IBM and Suse = in bed together > If > IBM in bed with Redhat > and IBM in bed with M$ > then > Redhat in bed with M$ > If > IBM in bed with everyone > and IBM financing everyone > then > IBM owns everyone > endif > > > IBM believes in UNIX/ Linux for the server and M$ for the desktop. > IBM is the largest technology company in the world, they have huge > power in the industry, they have huge numbers of lawyers, do you think > maybe they only care about profits. Stop thinking IBM is a company > that wants to help Linux, if Linux was not making money for them they > would try to sink Linux. > > Just my opinion... > > Putting on fire proof suit, boots, and helmet, picking up fire > extinguisher, standing in Lake Superior! Tucking head between legs > and kissing @$$ good by! > > Sam. > > David Alitz wrote: > >> Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! >> >> Has anyone else come across the Halloween documents at >> opensource.org? Interesting read. They seem to confirm what I've >> noticed about M$. It seems that M$ as adopted a policy of >> "de-commoditizing" protocols. Basically, it means that M$ will >> happily sign on to new standards and then add their own "extensions" >> to effectively break the standard. The crux of it is if you have M$ >> on the desktop you'll need their version of the protocol on your >> servers. Those servers probably won't be running RedHat. >> >> Certainly you noticed this with most Microsoft implementations. MS >> Java, Internet Explorer, MS DNS to name a few. The next generation >> of Office promises to do the same for XML. It isn't Microsoft's >> dedication to their customers that's causing them to alter these >> standards; it's their dedication to their shareholders. >> >> To be truthful I don't think Linux is ready for the average users >> desktop, but Windows on the desktop only helps M$ push it's >> non-standard standards on the back-end. You'd think Redhat would at >> least endorse Mac. >> >> Dave Alitz >> >> Justin Kremer wrote: >> >>> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html >>> >>> Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they >>> don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows >>> instead. >>> >>> -- >>> Justin Kremer >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Nov 20 11:28:05 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B3E1@IPSERVER2> And until the Linux community gets that or cares enough to solve it, Linux will not be a big choice among the home users. Microsoft and Apple understand this. Microsoft focuses on making computers as accessible as possible because the more you dumb down your system the more people smart enough to use it. Sometimes I think Linux likes to keep things artificially difficult to maintain some sort of sick I walked both ways up hill nostalgia. That keeps the potential userbase small. And yes, you can say the community does not suffer fools well, but then don't expect a big marketshare. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:16 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? > > > > LOLROF > > A home user will go back to M$ > > > > > man chmod > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Thu Nov 20 11:37:21 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> Message-ID: <1069349841.3fbcfbd153730@mail.bitstream.net> Yeah, gee, man files are so useful. I really want to learn what an OCTAL-MODE FILE is so I can use my DVD player. (Which brings me to my second rant of the day: Why can't man files include a couple simple examples of common usages of the command?) CHMOD(1) FSF CHMOD(1) NAME chmod - change file access permissions SYNOPSIS chmod [OPTION]... MODE[,MODE]... FILE... chmod [OPTION]... OCTAL-MODE FILE... chmod [OPTION]... --reference=RFILE FILE... Quoting Sam MacDonald : > > LOLROF > > A home user will go back to M$ > > > > > man chmod > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Nov 20 11:37:41 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Johnny Fulcrum wrote: > dynamic DNS is for servies like dyndns.org .... I have an "always on" > cable connection. Road runner changes my dynamically assigned IP address > every thirty hours or so. services like dyndns.org will update DNS with > your new IP address to resolve your domain name (if you have one). It's also for people who run DNS servers that allow dynamic updates, or who have friends who do. ;) Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Thu Nov 20 11:36:26 2003 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: Tabbed browsing (was Re: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows?) In-Reply-To: <3FBCDAC0.2020700@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: | My wife is anti-linux but has on occasion needed to use my Debian computer | to browse the web because I was already connected and booted up. To my | surprise she has never complained when using Linux applications. She | has, however, sort of complained about font sizes and tabbed browsing, after | I ask her on how her experience was. On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, The Wandering Dru wrote: | That's got to be the first time I've ever heard about any one | *complaining* about tabbed browsing. I'm not overly suprised. Most windows users happily run along at 800x600 or 1024x768, and it never occurs to them to have their windows be anything but maximized. Throw a Mac user in front of a Doze box, and the first thing they do is complain about the screen size and then resize maximized windows. Tabbed browsing is one of those things you have to get used to, and then know how to use (middle mouse opens a link in a new tab, ctrl+t for new tab, etc.) to really enjoy. Once you get used to it, it is hard to go back. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david.alitz at earthlink.net Thu Nov 20 11:52:39 2003 From: david.alitz at earthlink.net (David Alitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBCFF67.40702@earthlink.net> Is my memory faulty? I seem to recall that MS took over the corporate sector by way of the home user. People became comfortable with PCs at home and corporations adopted PCs as a way to take advantage of users existing computer skills. PCs replaced X-Terms because home users were already comfortable with them. Apple tried the reverse strategy. Teach people to use an Apple as a student and they'll take it to home and work with them. Of course, the economics of Linux vs. Windows is different thatn Windows vs. Apple, which may make the results different too. Dave Alitz Matt Murphy wrote: >*at home*, in which case, I agree. On the corporate desktop you have IT professionals making sure that the few applications that are needed for the business are working, and possibly even making sure nothing else does. Linux is still lagging in terms of depth of applications and devices that support it, and will continue to until it's taken over the corporate sector, as windows did many years ago. > >Matt > > > >>Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they >> >> >don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows >instead. > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blots at visi.com Thu Nov 20 12:09:28 2003 From: blots at visi.com (Tom Penney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <1069351768.1058.82.camel@lotsa> It's a shame. I can understand his point but it is a shame. I've always been a fan of RedHat but these statements are a step backward for linux. Why steer people away from linux? RedHat apparently has given up the battle for the "bonehead friendly" linux desktop. >From the perspective of having to support Joe Average using a linux workstation I was very impressed by the Ximian stuff I saw at that Novel sales presentation I went to last week. I could defiantly see supporting people useing that system, very simple very clean. I don't think I would use it myself but I believe a bonehead friendly desktop environment is very important to linux gaining widespread acceptance. Windows is a little bit more bonehead friendly but that will change. I can't blame RedHat for going where the money is right now (servers) but I believe is is short sited of RedHat steer people toward MS for the sake of not steering them toward competing linux distributions. my 2 cents. - Tom On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 01:34, Justin Kremer wrote: > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html > > Yeah, the company that in most peoples eyes IS linux (because they > don't know any better) is telling them that they should use Windows > instead. > > -- > Justin Kremer > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Tom Penney _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Thu Nov 20 12:35:03 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCF830.5030408@earthlink.net> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> <3FBCF830.5030408@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FBD0957.6040300@visi.com> David Alitz wrote: > I have no love for IBM either. It's obvious that IBM and Linux is a > marriage of convenience; but sometimes those arrangements work out. > I'm afraid I don't see IBM and M$ as bedfellows. I would expect low > end IBM servers to be running Windows if that were true. Of course, > I'm finding it a bit incredible that RedHat would recommend Windows on > the desktop. Maybe IBMs relationship is about getting RedHat to fall > on their sword and make way for M$? It sounds more than a little > far-fetched to me. I don't find it all that odd. They have a fast growing core business consisting of providing software, support and training to corporate clients. This is fairly high margin because they can focus their efforts much more narrowly than playing in the general market. They also know that there is a practical limit on how fast they can grow and still keep the wheels on the wagon. So you dump the non-revenue stuff into a separate organization and give it some support to get things going while you focus on the higher margin corporate environment. As an end-user I have mixed feelings, but as a shareholder I think its the right move. I keep hearing that Linux is ready for the desktop but my experience is substantially different. OO still isn't real competition for Word although I often use the spreadsheet, Gimp is nowhere as powerful as Photoshop nor as easy to use as PictureIt or Elements, I've yet to find a Linux MP3 app that is as convenient as Musicmatch Jukebox or the new iTunes. I've used Unix for 20 years and run Linux in my machines at home, but it is a real drag at times. If I want to use my Rio 500 under XP I just tell Jukebox to download the necessary driver and I'm set to go. If I want to use it in Linux I have to build a new kernel and select a handful of obscure options in order for it to be recognized and work properly. Which do you think my parents or co-workers would prefer to do? Most people have something they want to do. Maybe its reading e-mail, browsing the web, writing documents, processing some digital photos or perhaps listen to their music. They don't want to compile an application, build a kernel or learn a programming language - to them a computer is a tool, not a lifestyle.. MS and Apple understand this, but my impression is that most of the Linux community doesn't. Linux is certainly getting more sophisticated but it certainly isn't getting easier. BTW, I'm running into an increasing number of people that I knew use to run Linux who are carrying around iBooks or Powerbooks. I expect that my next computer will be a 12" iBook. After 20 years I've compiled enough kernels and tracked down enough driver issues for one lifetime :-) --rick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 12:39:57 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBD0A7D.2000700@visi.com> I installed Redhat 6.2 and KDE is at least 200% faster then on Redhat 8.0. It just runs smooth even with 64 mb RAM it out performs the Redhat 8.0 install. I have the installs on different hard disk drives Hitachi 5. Gig (DMA/ATA-33 [Ultra] 12 ms - 4000 rpm - 512 KB) IBM Travelstar 5 Gig (DMA/ATA-33 [Ultra] 12.7 ms - 4200 rpm - 512 KB) The IBM is a little faster but that would not effect the speed of X Windows enough. I could swap the disks and put 6.2 on the slower disk and the results would be the same. If I could I would go to the beer meeting and show you all it isn't the hardware. I've done this on 2 desktops and 3 laptops, every time it's the same thing. Redhat 6.2 is faster then 8.0 on older hardware. I would like to do the same with Slackware and Debian to see if the kernel versions cause the slow down. From 2.X to 2.4. If it's the version of KDE so be it, I believe it's the Kernel changes. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Nov 20 12:50:23 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel Message-ID: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> This is my first dual-processor Linux adventure, I'm installing Debian woody on a Dell PowerEdge 1750 with two 2.4 Ghz Xeon processors. Getting Debian on this thing was an interesting challenge, had to create a custom install CD with a custom 2.4.22 kernel in order for the installer to recognize the SCSI adapter and the network adapter. Anyway, now that Debian is up on it and seems to be running fine, I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions for testing the SMP kernel performance. I would like a nice fuzzy feeling knowing that it's actually really utilizing both processors. Would compiling a kernel suffice? Any other suggestions? Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 13:01:21 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBD0957.6040300@visi.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <3FBCCC47.10409@earthlink.net> <3FBCD69E.3000804@visi.com> <3FBCF830.5030408@earthlink.net> <3FBD0957.6040300@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBD0F81.6050608@visi.com> Apple Store at South Dale is small, drab, but they have it all. Laptops, towers, and the sweetest displays you'll see today. Sam. Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > David Alitz wrote: > >> I have no love for IBM either. It's obvious that IBM and Linux is a >> marriage of convenience; but sometimes those arrangements work out. >> I'm afraid I don't see IBM and M$ as bedfellows. I would expect low >> end IBM servers to be running Windows if that were true. Of course, >> I'm finding it a bit incredible that RedHat would recommend Windows >> on the desktop. Maybe IBMs relationship is about getting RedHat to >> fall on their sword and make way for M$? It sounds more than a >> little far-fetched to me. > > > I don't find it all that odd. They have a fast growing core business > consisting of providing software, support and training to corporate > clients. This is fairly high margin because they can focus their > efforts much more narrowly than playing in the general market. They > also know that there is a practical limit on how fast they can grow > and still keep the wheels on the wagon. So you dump the non-revenue > stuff into a separate organization and give it some support to get > things going while you focus on the higher margin corporate > environment. As an end-user I have mixed feelings, but as a > shareholder I think its the right move. > > I keep hearing that Linux is ready for the desktop but my experience > is substantially different. OO still isn't real competition for Word > although I often use the spreadsheet, Gimp is nowhere as powerful as > Photoshop nor as easy to use as PictureIt or Elements, I've yet to > find a Linux MP3 app that is as convenient as Musicmatch Jukebox or > the new iTunes. I've used Unix for 20 years and run Linux in my > machines at home, but it is a real drag at times. If I want to use my > Rio 500 under XP I just tell Jukebox to download the necessary driver > and I'm set to go. If I want to use it in Linux I have to build a new > kernel and select a handful of obscure options in order for it to be > recognized and work properly. Which do you think my parents or > co-workers would prefer to do? > > Most people have something they want to do. Maybe its reading e-mail, > browsing the web, writing documents, processing some digital photos or > perhaps listen to their music. They don't want to compile an > application, build a kernel or learn a programming language - to them > a computer is a tool, not a lifestyle.. MS and Apple understand this, > but my impression is that most of the Linux community doesn't. Linux > is certainly getting more sophisticated but it certainly isn't getting > easier. > > BTW, I'm running into an increasing number of people that I knew use > to run Linux who are carrying around iBooks or Powerbooks. I expect > that my next computer will be a 12" iBook. After 20 years I've > compiled enough kernels and tracked down enough driver issues for one > lifetime :-) > > --rick > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Thu Nov 20 13:05:05 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FBD1061.103@visi.com> You can just run top and it will show you the statistics for each processor at the top of the display. Doing a compressed tar archive on /usr should load up both processors pretty well. --rick Josh Trutwin wrote: >This is my first dual-processor Linux adventure, I'm installing Debian woody on a Dell PowerEdge 1750 with two 2.4 Ghz Xeon processors. Getting Debian on this thing was an interesting challenge, had to create a custom install CD with a custom 2.4.22 kernel in order for the installer to recognize the SCSI adapter and the network adapter. > >Anyway, now that Debian is up on it and seems to be running fine, I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions for testing the SMP kernel performance. I would like a nice fuzzy feeling knowing that it's actually really utilizing both processors. > >Would compiling a kernel suffice? Any other suggestions? > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at us-admins.com Thu Nov 20 13:12:11 2003 From: blutgens at us-admins.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069349841.3fbcfbd153730@mail.bitstream.net> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> <1069349841.3fbcfbd153730@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <717FE9BF-1B8D-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 11:37 AM, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > Yeah, gee, man files are so useful. I really want > to learn > what an OCTAL-MODE FILE is so I can use my DVD player. (Which brings > me to my > second rant of the day: Why can't man files include a couple simple > examples of > common usages of the command?) > Then perhaps you should stick to something a little easier for you to understand. There are other ways to represent the permissions. Further inspection of the manpage will show you that "chmod g+rw filename" will add group read/write permissions to 'filename' #----snip manpage for chmod DESCRIPTION This manual page documents the GNU version of chmod. chmod changes the permissions of each given file according to mode, which can be either a symbolic representation of changes to make, or an octal number repre- senting the bit pattern for the new permissions. The format of a symbolic mode is `[ugoa...][[+-=][rwxXs- tugo...]...][,...]'. Multiple symbolic operations can be given, sepa- rated by commas. A combination of the letters `ugoa' controls which users' access to the file will be changed: the user who owns it (u), other users in the file's group (g), other users not in the file's group (o), or all users (a). If none of these are given, the effect is as if `a' were given, but bits that are set in the umask are not affected. #------- end snip Even more inspection of manpages will show you that there are quite often an "EXAMPLE" section of the manpage such as in this tar manpage on my ibook #----snip tar manpage EXAMPLES To create an archive on tape drive /dev/sa0 with a block size of 20 blocks, containing files named bert and ernie, you can enter tar cfb /dev/sa0 20 bert ernie #----- end snip Perhaps linux is not right for you. Only you can decide that. Ranting on-list won't fix your issues, reading the manpages however will. > CHMOD(1) FSF > CHMOD(1) > NAME > chmod - change file access permissions > > SYNOPSIS > chmod [OPTION]... MODE[,MODE]... FILE... > chmod [OPTION]... OCTAL-MODE FILE... > chmod [OPTION]... --reference=RFILE FILE... > > Quoting Sam MacDonald : > >> >> LOLROF >> >> A home user will go back to M$ >> >>> >>> man chmod >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens U.S. Admins, Inc Server Gumby _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Nov 20 13:42:32 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1069357352.11541.30.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Nov 20 13:39:07 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > This is my first dual-processor Linux adventure, I'm installing Debian > woody on a Dell PowerEdge 1750 with two 2.4 Ghz Xeon processors. Oooo. Congratulations. > Anyway, now that Debian is up on it and seems to be running fine, I was > wondering if anyone had some suggestions for testing the SMP kernel > performance. I would like a nice fuzzy feeling knowing that it's > actually really utilizing both processors. > > Would compiling a kernel suffice? Any other suggestions? You could always fire up two copies of SETI@home, and eyeball `top` to see the CPU affinity (which I believe it shows when running with multiple CPUs). Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Thu Nov 20 13:20:32 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <717FE9BF-1B8D-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> <1069349841.3fbcfbd153730@mail.bitstream.net> <717FE9BF-1B8D-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> Message-ID: <20031120192032.GN19336@autonomous.tv> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Nov 20 13:22:04 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1069356123.3629.22.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Nov 20 14:15:41 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> Message-ID: <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Thu Nov 20 14:20:23 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <3FBD0A7D.2000700@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 12:39:57PM -0600 References: <3FBD0A7D.2000700@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031120142023.A6520@thinkunix.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > I installed Redhat 6.2 and KDE is at least 200% faster then on Redhat > 8.0. It just runs smooth even with 64 mb RAM it out performs the Redhat > 8.0 install. > > If I could I would go to the beer meeting and show you all it isn't the > hardware. I've done this on 2 desktops and 3 laptops, every time it's > the same thing. Redhat 6.2 is faster then 8.0 on older hardware. > > I would like to do the same with Slackware and Debian to see if the > kernel versions cause the slow down. From 2.X to 2.4. If it's the > version of KDE so be it, I believe it's the Kernel changes. more then likely it's just due to general software bloat in everything from the C libraries (glibc), the kernel itself and user land programs. With each release of any Linux distro, things keep getting bigger. I think the rationale behind it is that disk is cheap and cpus are much faster these days so who cares. I doubt too many developers are still running on 386, 486, or even 586 systems anymore, so they code for what the current hardware is. One thing you could do is build a custom kernel and take out all the drivers that you don't need and make the ones you do modular. This keeps the kernel footprint smaller and leaves more free memory. Most distros have bloated kernels just so that "everything works out of the box" on most hardware. Beware on laptops though: you'll need to build both the kernel and pcmcia to get back on a network (assuming you don't have a built in ethernet card). Another tip for speed: try running Netscape 4.79 instead of mozilla on a current distro. It works for most websites still and runs *MUCH* faster. I'm running Slackware 9.1 on a PII-350 with 512 MB RAM and it's a noticable difference. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gsker at tcfreenet.org Thu Nov 20 14:53:59 2003 From: gsker at tcfreenet.org (Gerald Skerbitz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <3FBD0A7D.2000700@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031120145124.G55184-100000@tcfreenet.org> How did you install a current KDE on Redhat 6.2? And if you did not install a current KDE, then it's not a reasonable comparison. KDE has majorly changed since then. I'm intrigued, but I don't think it's the kernel. -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@tcfreenet.org On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I installed Redhat 6.2 and KDE is at least 200% faster then on Redhat > 8.0. It just runs smooth even with 64 mb RAM it out performs the Redhat > 8.0 install. > I have the installs on different hard disk drives > Hitachi 5. Gig (DMA/ATA-33 [Ultra] 12 ms - 4000 rpm - 512 KB) > IBM Travelstar 5 Gig (DMA/ATA-33 [Ultra] 12.7 ms - 4200 rpm - 512 KB) > The IBM is a little faster but that would not effect the speed of X > Windows enough. > I could swap the disks and put 6.2 on the slower disk and the results > would be the same. > > If I could I would go to the beer meeting and show you all it isn't the > hardware. I've done this on 2 desktops and 3 laptops, every time it's > the same thing. Redhat 6.2 is faster then 8.0 on older hardware. > > I would like to do the same with Slackware and Debian to see if the > kernel versions cause the slow down. From 2.X to 2.4. If it's the > version of KDE so be it, I believe it's the Kernel changes. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Thu Nov 20 14:57:21 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <1069361841.3fbd2ab1ea9b6@mail.bitstream.net> Quoting Callum Lerwick : > What, you mean like pam_console? See, this is why I like RedHat for the > desktop, it comes with pam_console set up to give access to /dev/dsp > /dev/cdrom and such to anyone logged in on console. RedHat Just Works > out of the box for desktop use. Debian... doesn't. > > Check out /etc/security/console.perms Aha! I bet that's why when I hit ctrl-alt-F8 and login as another user and then hit ctrl-alt-F7 to get back to my own console my sound stops working. Brady _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Nov 20 14:57:07 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] WooHoo! In-Reply-To: <3FBD0A7D.2000700@visi.com> References: <3FBD0A7D.2000700@visi.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I installed Redhat 6.2 and KDE is at least 200% faster then on Redhat > 8.0. It just runs smooth even with 64 mb RAM it out performs the Redhat > 8.0 install. Are you upgrading RH 6.2 to KDE 3.x? RedHat 6.2 ships with KDE 1, which is much much leaner than KDE 3. The new versions of KDE are just plain bigger (binary-size), which is going to consume memory and such, and they also have a lot more cpu-intensive features, which is going to slow things down. If you aren't upgrading KDE, this is an apples-to-oranges comparison - you could always install KDE 1 on RH8, and I bet that'd be quicker, too. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 20 15:49:57 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> Message-ID: <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> The Wandering Dru wrote: > Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > >> I could not find a "caching DNS server". There is a "dynamic DNS" tab >> in the services section that allows you to add hosts, hmm, the >> "enabled" box is checked but I don't think I did that, should I >> "uncheck" it? > > > Sorry, now that I'm somewhere with an actual IPCop box, I can be more > specific(I was going from memory before). It's called "DNS proxy > server" on the information page and I think it's enabled by default. > Dynamic DNS is for those of us running webpages and other services out > of our homes or on networks where the gateway's external IP address > changes on a regular(or not-so-regular) basis. > > You shouldn't need that at this point since you're on dialup and aren't > running external servers. I "unchecked" it. > >> Sorry, I know what ping is but I'm not sure what to do. > > > $ ping > > eg. > > $ ping 192.168.1.1 $ ping 192.168.1.3 PING 192.168.1.3 (192.168.1.3) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 192.168.1.3: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.795 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.3: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.697 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.3: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.681 ms --- 192.168.1.3 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2013ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.681/0.724/0.795/0.054 ms Not surprizing since I can use the web interface to IPCop from Mandrake (IPCop has no keyboard, monitor or mouse). > > This should tell you if you can see the IPCop box from your linux box. > (To stop it, ^c or use the -c flag to set the number of pings) > > Next, try pinging an address outside your network. Using an actual IP > address will bypass the DNS query and will help us narrow down where the > problem really is. > > Mandrake's webserver works as well as any for this. > > $ ping -c 5 212.43.244.27 after using the IPCop web interface to dial and connect, I try: $ ping -c 5 212.43.244.27 connect: Network is unreachable >>> sure the Mandrake box is pointing to the IPCop box as its gateway, >>> otherwise >> >> >> >> I don't know how to do this. >> > > The easiest way to do this is to let IPCop handle the IP addresses on > the network via DHCP. You already said that DHCP was set up on IPCop. > All you need to do now is to tell the MDK box to get its network > information via DHCP/bootp (you can do this from MDK's Control Center). I found it in the Control Center but the setting does not want to change. I'd rather edit files and use the command line, I think. > > The MDK box should then automagically use the IPCop box as its > gateway/DNS. The Winders box should be set up the same way. Then both > of them should be happy. > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Nov 20 15:51:15 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Callum Lerwick wrote: > What, you mean like pam_console? See, this is why I like RedHat for the > desktop, it comes with pam_console set up to give access to /dev/dsp > /dev/cdrom and such to anyone logged in on console. RedHat Just Works > out of the box for desktop use. Debian... doesn't. uhh.. imho that broke a lot more things than it fixed, sure it works just fine when one use and one user only logs into the box from console, but things get wierd once you try to ssh in and burn a CD for example, in gentoo(and i think debian as well) it does it using group permissions ie /dev/dsp is owned by root:audio so if you want people to be able to use audio you add the to the audio group, if you want people to be able to play games, you add them to the games group, and so on and so forth -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Nov 20 16:37:52 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FBD4240.307@comcast.net> I think Rick's problem may be that he needs to add a route statement to his network configs. If I check "netstat -rn", one of my routing entries is as follows: Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window Iface 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 eth0 Obviously, this tells my Mandrake machine that for ALL IP addresses, it needs to go to my firewall to get it's information. I'm willing to bet that information is missing from his configs. I know how to add a route statement to Windows, but I can't seem to remember how to do it in Unix/Linux. Anyone out there want to pitch in? Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > > The Wandering Dru wrote: > >> Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >> >>> I could not find a "caching DNS server". There is a "dynamic DNS" tab >>> in the services section that allows you to add hosts, hmm, the >>> "enabled" box is checked but I don't think I did that, should I >>> "uncheck" it? >> >> >> >> Sorry, now that I'm somewhere with an actual IPCop box, I can be more >> specific(I was going from memory before). It's called "DNS proxy >> server" on the information page and I think it's enabled by default. >> Dynamic DNS is for those of us running webpages and other services out >> of our homes or on networks where the gateway's external IP address >> changes on a regular(or not-so-regular) basis. >> >> You shouldn't need that at this point since you're on dialup and >> aren't running external servers. > > > I "unchecked" it. > >> >>> Sorry, I know what ping is but I'm not sure what to do. >> >> >> >> $ ping >> >> eg. >> >> $ ping 192.168.1.1 > > > $ ping 192.168.1.3 > PING 192.168.1.3 (192.168.1.3) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from 192.168.1.3: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.795 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.1.3: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.697 ms > 64 bytes from 192.168.1.3: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.681 ms > > --- 192.168.1.3 ping statistics --- > 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2013ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.681/0.724/0.795/0.054 ms > > Not surprizing since I can use the web interface to IPCop from Mandrake > (IPCop has no keyboard, monitor or mouse). > >> >> This should tell you if you can see the IPCop box from your linux box. >> (To stop it, ^c or use the -c flag to set the number of pings) >> >> Next, try pinging an address outside your network. Using an actual IP >> address will bypass the DNS query and will help us narrow down where >> the problem really is. >> >> Mandrake's webserver works as well as any for this. >> >> $ ping -c 5 212.43.244.27 > > > after using the IPCop web interface to dial and connect, I try: > > $ ping -c 5 212.43.244.27 > connect: Network is unreachable > >>>> sure the Mandrake box is pointing to the IPCop box as its gateway, >>>> otherwise >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know how to do this. >>> >> >> The easiest way to do this is to let IPCop handle the IP addresses on >> the network via DHCP. You already said that DHCP was set up on IPCop. >> All you need to do now is to tell the MDK box to get its network >> information via DHCP/bootp (you can do this from MDK's Control Center). > > > I found it in the Control Center but the setting does not want to > change. I'd rather edit files and use the command line, I think. > >> >> The MDK box should then automagically use the IPCop box as its >> gateway/DNS. The Winders box should be set up the same way. Then >> both of them should be happy. >> > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Thu Nov 20 17:22:45 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Grrrrrrrr! Message-ID: <3FBD4CC5.50505@visi.com> Clicking on the "Next" button, stupid graphical boot is the default. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From patrickm at citilink.com Thu Nov 20 17:20:46 2003 From: patrickm at citilink.com (Patrick McCabe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBD4240.307@comcast.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> <3FBD4240.307@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FBD4C4E.2080404@citilink.com> Assuming the green interface on ipcop is 192.168.0.1 manually, as root: /sbin/route add default gw 192.168.0.1 On the ipcop box, in /var/ipcop/ethernet/settings, you should have the line: DEFAULT_GATEWAY=192.168.0.1 This will set it up at boot. Patrick Todd Young wrote: > I think Rick's problem may be that he needs to add a route statement to > his network configs. > > If I check "netstat -rn", one of my routing entries is as follows: > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window Iface > 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 eth0 > > Obviously, this tells my Mandrake machine that for ALL IP addresses, it > needs to go to my firewall to get it's information. I'm willing to bet > that information is missing from his configs. I know how to add a route > statement to Windows, but I can't seem to remember how to do it in > Unix/Linux. Anyone out there want to pitch in? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Nov 20 18:12:04 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <200311201812.04313.dru@druswanderings.net> On Thursday 20 November 2003 03:49 pm, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > --- 192.168.1.3 ping statistics --- > 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2013ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.681/0.724/0.795/0.054 ms > > Not surprizing since I can use the web interface to IPCop from Mandrake > (IPCop has no keyboard, monitor or mouse). ummm, yeah. "Duh!" to me. > I found it in the Control Center but the setting does not want to > change. I'd rather edit files and use the command line, I think. Then you, my friend, need to change distros. Mdk has so much cruft between the gui interface and config files that sometimes it's hard to tell just what the hell it's doing. I did some digging on my 9.2 system and came up with the following file. Hopefully this isn't something they changed since 9.1(which I believe you are currently running). /etc/netprofile/profiles/default/files/etc/sysconfig/network -- Andy Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dru at druswanderings.net Thu Nov 20 18:32:34 2003 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <200311201832.34524.dru@druswanderings.net> On Thursday 20 November 2003 03:49 pm, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > I found it in the Control Center but the setting does not want to > change. I'd rather edit files and use the command line, I think. Ok, I did a little more digging into what the gui network config was doing when it changed stuff. /etc/netprofile/profiles/default/files/etc/sysconfig This is where you can assign your hostname and gateway. Note that this file only exists if you are using a static IP. /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 This file holds the config for the network card, ie. how IP is assigned, the IP address, netmask etc. -- Andy Moore _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Nov 20 18:37:20 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031120183720.00002123.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > This is my first dual-processor Linux adventure, I'm installing Debian > > woody on a Dell PowerEdge 1750 with two 2.4 Ghz Xeon processors. > > Oooo. Congratulations. Well, it's technically not mine, but yeah, it is kinda fun. > You could always fire up two copies of SETI@home, and eyeball `top` to > see the CPU affinity (which I believe it shows when running with multiple > CPUs). I was not seeing anything different with top that tells anything about multiple CPU's. Supposedly top -C is an SMP option, but that also doesn't show anything interesting. I finally found the "LC" field, that shows "Last used CPU", this shows the processes nicely divided up between processor 0 and processor 1. /proc/cpuinfo also shows both CPUs, so I think I can rest easier. It's wierd having to tee ./configure output into a log file now because the messages scroll by too fast to even read! Now I have to fix a broken perl installation. sigh... Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Thu Nov 20 19:03:52 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <20031120183720.00002123.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <3FBD6478.9000900@structural-wood.com> Josh Trutwin wrote: >>On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: >> >>>This is my first dual-processor Linux adventure, I'm installing Debian >>>woody on a Dell PowerEdge 1750 with two 2.4 Ghz Xeon processors. >> >> Oooo. Congratulations. > > > Well, it's technically not mine, but yeah, it is kinda fun. > > >> You could always fire up two copies of SETI@home, and eyeball `top` to >>see the CPU affinity (which I believe it shows when running with multiple >>CPUs). > > > I was not seeing anything different with top that tells anything about multiple CPU's. Supposedly top -C is an SMP option, but that also doesn't show anything interesting. I finally found the "LC" field, that shows "Last used CPU", this shows the processes nicely divided up between processor 0 and processor 1. /proc/cpuinfo also shows both CPUs, so I think I can rest easier. > > It's wierd having to tee ./configure output into a log file now because the messages scroll by too fast to even read! > > Now I have to fix a broken perl installation. sigh... > > Josh > Shouldn't you be seeing *four* processors? I do I on my dual Xeon box using gkrellm and gtop... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Thu Nov 20 19:24:10 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <3FBD6478.9000900@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > Shouldn't you be seeing *four* processors? I do I on my dual Xeon box using gkrellm and gtop... That would only be if you have the P4 Xeon which has HT HT is hyperthreading which basically makes it look like you have 2 processors when you only have one. i am not well read on the subject but i am sure intel.com has plenty of propaganda on the subject. -- Munir Nassar Systems Administrator RedConcepts.NET _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Thu Nov 20 19:57:37 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBD4C4E.2080404@citilink.com> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> <3FBD4240.307@comcast.net> <3FBD4C4E.2080404@citilink.com> Message-ID: <3FBD7111.1010506@eworld3.net> Before I "add a route" I thought I would show you this, maybe you can see if it is no good and why: # netstat -rn Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 192.168.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo Patrick McCabe wrote: > Assuming the green interface on ipcop is 192.168.0.1 > > manually, as root: > /sbin/route add default gw 192.168.0.1 > > On the ipcop box, in /var/ipcop/ethernet/settings, you should have the > line: > DEFAULT_GATEWAY=192.168.0.1 > This will set it up at boot. > > > Patrick > > > Todd Young wrote: > >> I think Rick's problem may be that he needs to add a route statement >> to his network configs. >> >> If I check "netstat -rn", one of my routing entries is as follows: >> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window Iface >> 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 eth0 >> >> Obviously, this tells my Mandrake machine that for ALL IP addresses, >> it needs to go to my firewall to get it's information. I'm willing to >> bet that information is missing from his configs. I know how to add a >> route statement to Windows, but I can't seem to remember how to do it >> in Unix/Linux. Anyone out there want to pitch in? >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Thu Nov 20 20:02:51 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3FBD1061.103@visi.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c3afd3$91d1c570$0201a8c0@brinstar> Richard Hoffbeck writes: > Doing a compressed tar archive on /usr should load up both processors > pretty well. tar runs in a single process, so it will only run on one CPU at a time. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jonathon at quotidian.org Thu Nov 20 21:24:49 2003 From: jonathon at quotidian.org (Jonathon Jongsma) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] window focus - fedora Message-ID: <3FBD8581.2090404@quotidian.org> I just upgraded my RH9 to Fedora 1 and have found that a couple of things in gnome aren't working as they did before. the important one is that the window focus behavior has changed. I used to have it set so that the window with the mouse over it had the focus, and I could click anywhere in the window to raise the window. After upgrading to fedora, the focus still follows the mouse, but the window doesn't get raised unless I click specifically in the title bar. Clicking in the main window area doesn't work. I can't seem to find a setting to change it back. Can anybody lead me in the right direction? thanks. Jonathon _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Thu Nov 20 21:36:20 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: > Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin > Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K > Im satisfied with Onvoy. I have a full rack there (had a half rack for a year, was able to get the other half rack below me for a full rack) duncan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Thu Nov 20 21:31:46 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] squirrel problems Message-ID: <008301c3afdf$fe4e7bb0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> I am guessing this is an apache or php problem. I have another tech I am trying to help. He has a redhat 8 box with apache 1.38 and squirrel mail 1.27. Infrequent users seem to be able to login just fine. More serious users get timed out and never, or very rarely get logged in. Apache error_log shows nothing except that things timed out. We thought it might be from mail box size, so we took the heaviest user and aced everything in his mailbox, but he still gets timed out. The website works fine. It seems to be just a squirrel mail thing. Any ideas what to look for? Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Nov 20 21:48:56 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] window focus - fedora In-Reply-To: <3FBD8581.2090404@quotidian.org> References: <3FBD8581.2090404@quotidian.org> Message-ID: <20031121034856.GA17019@fandre.com> I had the same problem, but with debian unstable. I'm guessing it is the new version of Metacity that lost the ability to "click-to-raise". I fixed it by switching to sawfish. xterm$ killall metacity && sawfish& On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Jonathon Jongsma wrote: > I just upgraded my RH9 to Fedora 1 and have found that a couple of > things in gnome aren't working as they did before. the important one is > that the window focus behavior has changed. I used to have it set so > that the window with the mouse over it had the focus, and I could click > anywhere in the window to raise the window. After upgrading to fedora, > the focus still follows the mouse, but the window doesn't get raised > unless I click specifically in the title bar. Clicking in the main > window area doesn't work. I can't seem to find a setting to change it > back. Can anybody lead me in the right direction? > > thanks. > Jonathon > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Nov 20 22:26:03 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069361841.3fbd2ab1ea9b6@mail.bitstream.net> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069332457.7675.19.camel@tankgrrl> <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> <1069361841.3fbd2ab1ea9b6@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <1069388763.3629.37.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Nov 20 22:40:31 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <00dd01c3afd3$91d1c570$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3FBD1061.103@visi.com> <00dd01c3afd3$91d1c570$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: "David Phillips" writes: > Richard Hoffbeck writes: > > Doing a compressed tar archive on /usr should load up both processors > > pretty well. > > tar runs in a single process, so it will only run on one CPU at a time. He said a *compressed* tar archive. The compressor/decompressor runs in a separate process. Hence that would load both processors (and does here, when I do it). -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Nov 20 22:22:24 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B3EB@IPSERVER2> speaking of tar, is it possible to backup to a tape directly by piping tar to gzip and piping that to the tape device? My idea is to get the compressed backup to the tape without writing the uncompressed tar file to disk. Thanks Ryan > -----Original Message----- > From: David Phillips [mailto:david@acz.org] > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:03 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel > > > Richard Hoffbeck writes: > > Doing a compressed tar archive on /usr should load up both > processors > > pretty well. > > tar runs in a single process, so it will only run on one CPU > at a time. > > -- > David Phillips > http://david.acz.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Nov 20 22:40:35 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069389635.3629.52.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Nov 20 22:33:13 2003 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF664B3EC@IPSERVER2> > -----Original Message----- > From: Munir Nassar [mailto:nassarmu@redconcepts.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:24 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel > > > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Kent Schumacher wrote: > > > Shouldn't you be seeing *four* processors? I do I on my > dual Xeon box using gkrellm and gtop... > > That would only be if you have the P4 Xeon which has HT > > HT is hyperthreading which basically makes it look like you have 2 > processors when you only have one. > > i am not well read on the subject but i am sure intel.com has > plenty of > propaganda on the subject. I was at joint Microsoft/Unisys vldb conference and they stated that hyperthreading in the best circumstances gives about a 20% performance boost. What gets really interesting is that some software is licensed per processor, well what do you pay when your machine says 4 but you really only have 2. I think just about all vendors have backed away from trying to collect for 4 now. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Thu Nov 20 22:41:18 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jima writes: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > This is my first dual-processor Linux adventure, I'm installing Debian > > woody on a Dell PowerEdge 1750 with two 2.4 Ghz Xeon processors. > > Oooo. Congratulations. > > > Anyway, now that Debian is up on it and seems to be running fine, I was > > wondering if anyone had some suggestions for testing the SMP kernel > > performance. I would like a nice fuzzy feeling knowing that it's > > actually really utilizing both processors. > > > > Would compiling a kernel suffice? Any other suggestions? > > You could always fire up two copies of SETI@home, and eyeball `top` to > see the CPU affinity (which I believe it shows when running with multiple > CPUs). Yeah, that works. I nearly always show 95%+ utilization of each processor. It gets a bit lower when the system is busy :-). -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Nov 20 22:40:49 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] squirrel problems In-Reply-To: <008301c3afdf$fe4e7bb0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <008301c3afdf$fe4e7bb0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031120224049.00001dba.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> What IMAP server? SM 1.2.7 is pretty dang old, might want to consider an upgrade to 1.4.2. squirrelmail has a users list that is pretty helpful if you want to try their too. Josh > I am guessing this is an apache or php problem. > > I have another tech I am trying to help. He has a redhat 8 box with apache > 1.38 and squirrel mail 1.27. Infrequent users seem to be able to login just > fine. More serious users get timed out and never, or very rarely get logged > in. Apache error_log shows nothing except that things timed out. We thought > it might be from mail box size, so we took the heaviest user and aced > everything in his mailbox, but he still gets timed out. The website works > fine. It seems to be just a squirrel mail thing. > > Any ideas what to look for? > > > Raymond > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 00:07:11 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro Message-ID: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> If I could figure out what "rpmlib" is and get it installed I be less tired. I've been to RH.com, google.com, I've looked at Linux documentation until I can't see. I've spent about 6 hours attempting to find out what it is and why it's needed to install almost anything on RH 6.2 that is new. The only good thing I can say is "I'm not the only one with this problem" but the solutions are as varied as the number of people with the problem. I've been attempting to install OpenOffice and get a message that GLIBC 2.2 or better is needed, no big deal, I down load the rpm. When I try to install GLIBC 2.2.or better it tells me it can't find "rpmlib" I thought "just install a new version of RPM" but to do that I need "rpmlib". I've been going at this for way to long today, in my reading it has told me to ignore dependences ('rpm -Fvh package.rpm' or 'rpm -Uvh package.rpm'). It's told me rpmlib is "rpmlib.h", it's told me its in "/etc/rpm", it isn't. I would put it there if I cold find it but I haven't found it. I've looked everywhere I can think of. These are the dependencies being looked for, I've got no clue. In fact every new "rpm" I've looked at needs these not just GLIBC 2.2 and OpenOffice. I'm sort of to the point of installing NT and having a camp fire of Linux CD's (I'm really tired). rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) Thanks Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Fri Nov 21 00:16:17 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> Message-ID: <000f01c3aff6$f99bd1a0$6cd8bad0@angelfire> Check.. www.rpm.org Newest version is 4.2 And for me to force the issue, I've used this: Rpm --force -ivh package.rpm HTH -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:07 AM To: TC LUG Subject: [TCLUG] new distro If I could figure out what "rpmlib" is and get it installed I be less tired. I've been to RH.com, google.com, I've looked at Linux documentation until I can't see. I've spent about 6 hours attempting to find out what it is and why it's needed to install almost anything on RH 6.2 that is new. The only good thing I can say is "I'm not the only one with this problem" but the solutions are as varied as the number of people with the problem. I've been attempting to install OpenOffice and get a message that GLIBC 2.2 or better is needed, no big deal, I down load the rpm. When I try to install GLIBC 2.2.or better it tells me it can't find "rpmlib" I thought "just install a new version of RPM" but to do that I need "rpmlib". I've been going at this for way to long today, in my reading it has told me to ignore dependences ('rpm -Fvh package.rpm' or 'rpm -Uvh package.rpm'). It's told me rpmlib is "rpmlib.h", it's told me its in "/etc/rpm", it isn't. I would put it there if I cold find it but I haven't found it. I've looked everywhere I can think of. These are the dependencies being looked for, I've got no clue. In fact every new "rpm" I've looked at needs these not just GLIBC 2.2 and OpenOffice. I'm sort of to the point of installing NT and having a camp fire of Linux CD's (I'm really tired). rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) Thanks Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Fri Nov 21 00:34:53 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> Message-ID: <200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Thursday 20 November 2003 11:16 am, Sam MacDonald wrote: > LOLROF > > A home user will go back to M$ > > > man chmod Why do people think the home user is the holy grail of where linux should be or wants to go? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Fri Nov 21 00:40:50 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069361841.3fbd2ab1ea9b6@mail.bitstream.net> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> <1069361841.3fbd2ab1ea9b6@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <200311210040.51002@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Thursday 20 November 2003 02:57 pm, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > Quoting Callum Lerwick : > > What, you mean like pam_console? See, this is why I like RedHat for the > > desktop, it comes with pam_console set up to give access to /dev/dsp > > /dev/cdrom and such to anyone logged in on console. RedHat Just Works > > out of the box for desktop use. Debian... doesn't. > > > > Check out /etc/security/console.perms > > Aha! I bet that's why when I hit ctrl-alt-F8 and login as another user and > then hit ctrl-alt-F7 to get back to my own console my sound stops working. Why are going bounce between VCs? A home user will never use a VC, they will be in X+KDE/GNOME and once logged in wouldn't have any sound problems. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Fri Nov 21 00:47:52 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <200311210047.52020@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Thursday 20 November 2003 09:36 pm, Duncan Shannon wrote: > > Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin > > Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K > > Im satisfied with Onvoy. I have a full rack there (had a half rack for > a year, was able to get the other half rack below me for a full rack) If they where still mr.net, I'd say yeah, but Onvoy, no. Most of their best technical talent left (imho). I normally do not like to bad-mouth companys on the list, so if you want sorted details, send me private email. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Fri Nov 21 00:39:02 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <1069349841.3fbcfbd153730@mail.bitstream.net> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> <1069349841.3fbcfbd153730@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <200311210039.02561@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Thursday 20 November 2003 11:37 am, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > Yeah, gee, man files are so useful. I really want to > learn what an OCTAL-MODE FILE is so I can use my DVD player. (Which brings > me to my second rant of the day: Why can't man files include a couple > simple examples of common usages of the command?) How do you change perms in Windows? You can do the same thing in linux via KDE. Open Konqueror, file://dev, right click dsp, select Properties, click Permissions, choose your access. Now, if you say a normal user should be able to chmod (however) /dev/dsp, /etc/passwd, etc, I'll fight that statement to the grave. It's windows default security/permission model that makes the OS as insecure as it is. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Fri Nov 21 00:50:17 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] squirrel problems In-Reply-To: <008301c3afdf$fe4e7bb0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <008301c3afdf$fe4e7bb0$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <200311210050.17390@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Thursday 20 November 2003 09:31 pm, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am guessing this is an apache or php problem. > > I have another tech I am trying to help. He has a redhat 8 box with apache > 1.38 and squirrel mail 1.27. Infrequent users seem to be able to login just > fine. More serious users get timed out and never, or very rarely get logged > in. Apache error_log shows nothing except that things timed out. We thought > it might be from mail box size, so we took the heaviest user and aced > everything in his mailbox, but he still gets timed out. The website works > fine. It seems to be just a squirrel mail thing. Uff! Might want to head over to bugtraq on that version of squirrelmail. -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Nov 21 03:42:31 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <200311210040.51002@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <1069359340.3629.34.camel@bigtime> <1069361841.3fbd2ab1ea9b6@mail.bitstream.net> <200311210040.51002@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <1069407751.8145.110.camel@tankgrrl> On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 00:40, Bob Tanner wrote: > On Thursday 20 November 2003 02:57 pm, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > Quoting Callum Lerwick : > > > What, you mean like pam_console? See, this is why I like RedHat for the > > > desktop, it comes with pam_console set up to give access to /dev/dsp > > > /dev/cdrom and such to anyone logged in on console. RedHat Just Works > > > out of the box for desktop use. Debian... doesn't. > > > > > > Check out /etc/security/console.perms > > > > Aha! I bet that's why when I hit ctrl-alt-F8 and login as another user and > > then hit ctrl-alt-F7 to get back to my own console my sound stops working. > > Why are going bounce between VCs? > > A home user will never use a VC, they will be in X+KDE/GNOME and once logged > in wouldn't have any sound problems. I often use Gnome on two or more VCs...I'll give you instructions on how it's done if you want. Hint: it involves editing your /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf And this seems like something that could be very handy for home users if it was done right. This way I can let my daughter play TuxRacer without having to worry that she'll interrupt my CVS checkout. In your other email you said: > Now, if you say a normal user should be able to chmod > (however) /dev/dsp, /etc/passwd, etc, I'll fight that > statement to the grave. I was thinking of something that would intelligently rework permissions. Not run roughshod over security. Perhaps it could be based on an internal database...I don't know. Something that does the following: You are trying to access the sound system (/dev/dsp) but are unable because of permissions. Would you like to [] ignore and exit [] ignore and continue without sound [] give yourself temporary access to the sound system [] give yourself permanent access to the sound system by making you a member of the group "Audio" or alternatively: You are trying to access the password file (/etc/password) but are unable because of permissions. Would you like to [] ignore and exit [] supply a root password and correctly answer a couple questions from the RHCE/LPI exam to continue [] view some pr0n instead like a good little script kiddie Brady _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Nov 21 03:53:06 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> References: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> Message-ID: <1069408385.8145.130.camel@tankgrrl> Hey! Be careful fooling around with glibc. That's an important file. I completely munged a computer recently by installing glibc without installing a matching glibc-common at the same time. Redhat 6.2? Maybe you're first car shouldn't be a Model T...you should really install a newer distro. Like Fedora Core 1 perhaps (the newest free Redhat version). If you want to use RH 6 because you have antique hardware then you probably shouldn't be trying to run Open Office. Brady > If I could figure out what "rpmlib" is and get it installed I be less > tired. > > I've been to RH.com, google.com, I've looked at Linux documentation > until I can't see. > > I've spent about 6 hours attempting to find out what it is and why it's > needed to install almost anything on RH 6.2 that is new. The only good > thing I can say is "I'm not the only one with this problem" but the > solutions are as varied as the number of people with the problem. > > I've been attempting to install OpenOffice and get a message that GLIBC > 2.2 or better is needed, no big deal, I down load the rpm. When I try > to install GLIBC 2.2.or better it tells me it can't find "rpmlib" I > thought "just install a new version of RPM" but to do that I need > "rpmlib". > > I've been going at this for way to long today, in my reading it has told > me to ignore dependences > ('rpm -Fvh package.rpm' or 'rpm -Uvh package.rpm'). > > It's told me rpmlib is "rpmlib.h", it's told me its in "/etc/rpm", it > isn't. I would put it there if I cold find it but I haven't found it. > I've looked everywhere I can think of. > > These are the dependencies being looked for, I've got no clue. In fact > every new "rpm" I've looked at needs these not just GLIBC 2.2 and > OpenOffice. I'm sort of to the point of installing NT and having a camp > fire of Linux CD's (I'm really tired). > > rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) > rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) > > Thanks > > Sam. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Nov 21 05:56:48 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] For all you debian fans.. Message-ID: <20031121115648.GT21392@techmonkeys.org> http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/files/fw/debian-security-20031121.txt -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Fri Nov 21 07:47:25 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> <200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031121134724.GA9966@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:53AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > Why do people think the home user is the holy grail of where linux should be > or wants to go? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > Linus thinks the desktop is where it's at. Servers are easy and Linux already shines in that arena. Desktops are difficult to do right (so many variables in hardware and software). If Linux focuses on the office desktop segment, then there would be a natural tendency for those users to also want Linux at home. There might then be a ripple effect in which spouses and children of those users start using Linux. Further, w/o the home user (ie, lots and lots and lots of users), hardware manufacturers have less incentive to provide support. Just seems to me that the more home users, then issues like "Why doesn't this web page show the movie I expected?" and "Why doesn't this PC play music?" will become non-issues because everthing will work as exepcted. -- Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Nov 21 08:11:40 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > If I could figure out what "rpmlib" is and get it installed I be less > tired. It's not a package, per se. It's more of some functions that may or may not exist in the version of RPM you have installed. Are you still using the default? (`rpm -q rpm` will tell you; the default is, uh, 3.0.4-0.48) If so, there's your problem; v3 pretty well sucks, and few people package software for it. One of the first packages you need to upgrade to get pretty much anywhere on 6.2 is rpm -- it should be sitting at 4.0.2-6x. > I've been attempting to install OpenOffice and get a message that GLIBC > 2.2 or better is needed, no big deal, I down load the rpm. When I try > to install GLIBC 2.2.or better it tells me it can't find "rpmlib" I > thought "just install a new version of RPM" but to do that I need > "rpmlib". Like I said. Any RPM of glibc 2.2 would require RPM v4. Although I don't think you want to "upgrade" -- rpm won't like it, and you'll almost surely break your system by forcing it. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Nov 21 08:11:22 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know if Onvoy is more expensive than other places, but I know their network, engineers, and backbone connections are top notch. I worked there a couple years ago, great place. Matt -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Duncan Shannon Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:36 PM To: Scot Jenkins; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? > Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin > Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K > Im satisfied with Onvoy. I have a full rack there (had a half rack for a year, was able to get the other half rack below me for a full rack) duncan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Nov 21 08:16:01 2003 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <000f01c3aff6$f99bd1a0$6cd8bad0@angelfire> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Check.. www.rpm.org Newest version is 4.2 Looks like Fedora Core 1 is using 4.2.1, actually. > And for me to force the issue, I've used this: > > Rpm --force -ivh package.rpm > > HTH Helps? Using --force (and --nodeps, for that matter) is a great way to really hose your system. The dependencies are there for a reason. I've long suspected many of the "RPM dependency hell" claims revolve around careless use of those two flags. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 08:37:39 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <20031121134724.GA9966@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> <200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <20031121134724.GA9966@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <3FBE2333.9030804@visi.com> Well said. Sam. James Kaufman wrote: >On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:53AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > >>Why do people think the home user is the holy grail of where linux should be >>or wants to go? >> >>-- >>Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 >>http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 >>Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 >> >> >> > >Linus thinks the desktop is where it's at. Servers are easy and Linux already >shines in that arena. Desktops are difficult to do right (so many variables in >hardware and software). > >If Linux focuses on the office desktop segment, then there would be a natural >tendency for those users to also want Linux at home. There might then be a >ripple effect in which spouses and children of those users start using Linux. >Further, w/o the home user (ie, lots and lots and lots of users), hardware >manufacturers have less incentive to provide support. > >Just seems to me that the more home users, then issues like "Why doesn't this >web page show the movie I expected?" and "Why doesn't this PC play music?" will >become non-issues because everthing will work as exepcted. > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Fri Nov 21 08:39:55 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not saying it should be common practice. But sometimes it requires a big hammer. Getting KDE 3.1.4 on my RH9 required a big hammer. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jima Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:16 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] new distro On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > Check.. www.rpm.org Newest version is 4.2 Looks like Fedora Core 1 is using 4.2.1, actually. > And for me to force the issue, I've used this: > > Rpm --force -ivh package.rpm > > HTH Helps? Using --force (and --nodeps, for that matter) is a great way to really hose your system. The dependencies are there for a reason. I've long suspected many of the "RPM dependency hell" claims revolve around careless use of those two flags. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kbongers at mninter.net Fri Nov 21 10:46:46 2003 From: kbongers at mninter.net (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> References: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031121164646.GA4095@karl> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:07:11AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: ... > I've spent about 6 hours attempting to find out what it is and why it's > needed to install almost anything on RH 6.2 that is new. The only good ... > OpenOffice. I'm sort of to the point of installing NT and having a camp > fire of Linux CD's (I'm really tired). Sam, if you come to the beer meeting tonight I'm going to give you a wedgy. What you are trying to do is something akin to installing Windows NT V3.5 and install IE5.5, or a USB camera. I tried installing the latest Java runtime on a dual boot NT4/Win95 box w/48 meg of ram yesterday. Guess what, it sucked. JRE said I had to upgrade to SP6A, and on W95 it installed but crashed horribly. (Whine, whine, Sam, why can't I run JRE on a Win95/48MB machine?) So don't give us this bull about going back to windows to fix your old distro problem. If you want to run and old distro, then run an old distro. Chalk this up to a learning experience. Go install a new distro, strip it down and run something that is less than a PIG on your screaming P233 w/64M ram. I wouldn't run the latest Open Office on this machine, or the latest GNOME or KDE. These are rather large bloated applications. If you really must run this bloat, then strip off other crap to make it all bearable(fit in memory). Stripping down RH9 is much more appropriate than trying to upgrade from RH6. Install a minimal RH9, then turn off every single etc/init.d service thing. Add the daemons back in if you need them. Switch to using FVWM to make room for the BIG PIG OpenOffice. Maybe you were confused by Debians excellent upgradability. RH is not the same. With RH6 you can't easily upgrade to the lastest stuff. Wipe RH6 and install something newer and I will buy you a beer instead of the wedgy. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Fri Nov 21 08:55:16 2003 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and M$ and RH References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org><6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com><3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com><200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <20031121134724.GA9966@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <006c01c3b03f$7cf58800$0300000a@net.tsinks> The big thing about the use of Windows and associated os sw is the ability to move from work to home and on the road without a lot of shuffling. I can take a laptop to work with my Win and Office and move things back and forth from the work station to the laptop and never miss a beat. I can move things from my Linux to the M$ side of the laptop and back. If the home is left to Bill, then there is no hope for Linux. But, again the key is ease of use and all. You folks have missed the fact that RH can be had on several of the other big PC companies - Dell, HP, Sun. HP was the first with the package for the PC's and servers. The hold up is still the ability to move between systems and have all the bells and whistles associated with the packages you are going to use the most. This does not mean people use all or even a good portion of those attributes. I can't tell you how many desks or people I have come to help that have set up and get comfortable with something and work out a way to do something that isn't even the b&w which could make it easier. They say 'WOW' or 'I'll be' when you show them the fixture and it works. Or they continue to do it with their workaround because it's comfortable. We are creatures of habit and will, like water, seek the easiest path to nirvana or the ocean. Keep looking up, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Kaufman" To: ; "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? > On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:53AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Why do people think the home user is the holy grail of where linux should be > > or wants to go? > > > > -- > > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > > > > Linus thinks the desktop is where it's at. Servers are easy and Linux already > shines in that arena. Desktops are difficult to do right (so many variables in > hardware and software). > > If Linux focuses on the office desktop segment, then there would be a natural > tendency for those users to also want Linux at home. There might then be a > ripple effect in which spouses and children of those users start using Linux. > Further, w/o the home user (ie, lots and lots and lots of users), hardware > manufacturers have less incentive to provide support. > > Just seems to me that the more home users, then issues like "Why doesn't this > web page show the movie I expected?" and "Why doesn't this PC play music?" will > become non-issues because everthing will work as exepcted. > > -- > Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net > Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 > public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 > http://www.linuxforbusiness.net > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Nov 21 09:21:54 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro References: Message-ID: <3FBE2D92.8030703@structural-wood.com> Here is my entertaining tip for the day. I learned this only because I twitched and hit my return key at the wrong moment. Get apt4rpm installed and working. Force install an rpm that you don't have the correct dependencies for. Do an apt-get -f install. apt-get will either fixup the dependencies for the forced rpm, or delete it. Kind of the big hammer approach - fix it or kill it. Michael wrote: > I'm not saying it should be common practice. But sometimes it requires a > big hammer. > > Getting KDE 3.1.4 on my RH9 required a big hammer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jima > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:16 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] new distro > > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > >>Check.. www.rpm.org Newest version is 4.2 > > > Looks like Fedora Core 1 is using 4.2.1, actually. > > >>And for me to force the issue, I've used this: >> >>Rpm --force -ivh package.rpm >> >>HTH > > > Helps? Using --force (and --nodeps, for that matter) is a great way to > really hose your system. The dependencies are there for a reason. > I've long suspected many of the "RPM dependency hell" claims revolve around > careless use of those two flags. > > Jima > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Nov 21 09:52:29 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian kernel issues Message-ID: <3FBE34BD.90909@andersonfam.org> Hello all - I have Debian stable installed on an old laptop which (hopefully) will turn into my firewall at home. I'm trying to get kernel 2.4.19 compiled and installed on that box so I can have iptables support...however, when I try and boot to the new kernel, I get this message immeadiately after lilo does it's thing: Loading LinuxEBDA too big At that point, it hangs and must be rebooted. Fortunately, I left the old kernel on the box (and in the lilo menu). I've googled up and down to find the solution to this, and the only thing I've come up with is that EBDA stands for "Linux Extended Data Area". Aside from that info - nada. Any ideas? The only thing that I could think of is that the kernel image was too big, but it's only something like 900kb or so. That shouldn't be too big, should it? Thanks! -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Nov 21 10:13:40 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? Message-ID: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of them execute just fine, however when I click on others they just bring up a dialog box that says "subjective.sh not found" where subjective.sh is the name of the shell script. I've made sure that all of the scripts are executable. Does anyone know what's going on here? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From patrickm at citilink.com Fri Nov 21 10:37:13 2003 From: patrickm at citilink.com (Patrick McCabe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBD7111.1010506@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <200311192140.54202.The Wandering Dru <>> <3FBCEA09.4080605@eworld3.net> <3FBCF4E4.8000804@druswanderings.net> <3FBD3705.2080404@eworld3.net> <3FBD4240.307@comcast.net> <3FBD4C4E.2080404@citilink.com> <3FBD7111.1010506@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FBE3F39.1040103@citilink.com> You are missing the default gateway entry. The first entry in the list you've shown is your local subnet, it indicates that any computer with an address 192.168.0.x is directly connected to your computer via eth0. The second entry is the localhost. A third entry with Destination = 0.0.0.0 will be the default gateway. It indicates that all packets with destination addresses that aren't handled by the other entries in the list should be sent to the Gateway address for forwarding. You can use the route command as shown below to add the default gateway. Try it and see what happens. There are a lot of people on this list who know more about networking than I do, so if anything in the previous paragraph is wrong, I hope to be corrected. Using the route command from the command line will only add the gateway for this session. In order to add it permanently, you can use the configuration utility available somewhere in your GUI, or you can manually edit the config file. In my case (Mandrake), it is in /etc/sysconfig/network. The entry is GATEWAY=192.168.0.1 Hope this helps. Patrick Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Before I "add a route" I thought I would show you this, maybe you can > see if it is no good and why: > > # netstat -rn > Kernel IP routing table > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface > 192.168.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 > 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo > > > Patrick McCabe wrote: > >> Assuming the green interface on ipcop is 192.168.0.1 >> >> manually, as root: >> /sbin/route add default gw 192.168.0.1 >> >> On the ipcop box, in /var/ipcop/ethernet/settings, you should have the >> line: >> DEFAULT_GATEWAY=192.168.0.1 >> This will set it up at boot. >> >> >> Patrick >> >> >> Todd Young wrote: >> >>> I think Rick's problem may be that he needs to add a route statement >>> to his network configs. >>> >>> If I check "netstat -rn", one of my routing entries is as follows: >>> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window Iface >>> 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 eth0 >>> >>> Obviously, this tells my Mandrake machine that for ALL IP addresses, >>> it needs to go to my firewall to get it's information. I'm willing to >>> bet that information is missing from his configs. I know how to add a >>> route statement to Windows, but I can't seem to remember how to do it >>> in Unix/Linux. Anyone out there want to pitch in? >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Fri Nov 21 10:35:15 2003 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (Johnny Fulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:40 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of > them execute just fine, however when I click on others they just bring > up a > dialog box that says "subjective.sh not found" where subjective.sh is the > name of the shell script. Humm.. do the ones that work have a #!/usr/bin/bash (or whatever shell/interpeter you're using) as the first line? > I've made sure that all of the scripts are > executable. Does anyone know what's going on here? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Nov 21 10:47:55 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: References: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <16318.16827.830981.845231@workstation.mn.mtu.net> >>>>> "JF" == Johnny Fulcrum writes: JF> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:40 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: >> I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of >> them execute just fine, however when I click on others they just bring >> up a >> dialog box that says "subjective.sh not found" where subjective.sh is the >> name of the shell script. JF> Humm.. do the ones that work have a #!/usr/bin/bash (or whatever JF> shell/interpeter you're using) as the first line? Actually none of them have that. If I write a shell script that's like so: echo `pwd` > /tmp/foo That works. However if it's something like this: echo `pwd` > /tmp/foo echo $PATH >> /tmp/foo java -classpath foo.jar foo It doesn't work, however it does write to /tmp/foo and java is in the path. If I open up a shell propmpt and type ./foo.sh (containing either set of commands) it works just fine. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Fri Nov 21 11:31:41 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] For all you debian fans.. In-Reply-To: <20031121115648.GT21392@techmonkeys.org> References: <20031121115648.GT21392@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031121173141.GA24475@refried.org> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 05:56:48AM -0600, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/files/fw/debian-security-20031121.txt So that's why I couldn't get to security.d.o last night. ;) It happens to everyone, no big deal. They're a high profile target, it's not that surprising. Just because they got hacked isn't going to make me stop using Debian. Heck, I still use OpenBSD and millions of people still use Windows. Big Whoop, Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From william.layer at comcast.net Fri Nov 21 11:40:53 2003 From: william.layer at comcast.net (Bill Layer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian kernel issues In-Reply-To: <3FBE34BD.90909@andersonfam.org> References: <3FBE34BD.90909@andersonfam.org> Message-ID: <20031121114053.6b195b36.william.layer@comcast.net> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:52:29 -0600 Erik Anderson wrote: > Loading LinuxEBDA too big > > EBDA stands for "Linux Extended Data Area". Aside from that info - > nada. Err, I believe EBDA == Extended Bios Data Area.. Usually, it's just a couple of bytes too large. This is an error I have heard of several times recently, but haven't heard any solutions. I do have some half-baked conjectures on it tho. I'm guessing that this area contains the vectors that LILO uses to deal with extended (large) disk geometry (like the 13h extension). If the area is the incorrect size, it might be stumping LILO on where to find the information it needs to determine the geometry of the disk. Did you dig into the LILO docs, to see if you can push EBDA info on it? Also, fwiw, I suspect that this system might be bootable from a floppy or other media.. you did get it set up and all.. temp workaround? -L _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 11:49:27 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBE5027.3000601@visi.com> OK so*_ I think_* this is what I need, scope is on RH *plink* no more RH (I have RH 8.0 on the other hard disk, it has everything working. But X windows and OpenOffice are so slow.) KISMIF (Keep It Simple Make It Fun) I need to run my computer disposal business from this laptop, it works, it's all I need, and it was free so that's even better. :-) Micron TransPort XKE, P266mmx, 64 mb ram, 5 gig hd, cdrom, fdd, 2 @ pcmcia w/nic&modem, neomagic 128 XD video, ess sound, 13.3 active matrix @ 1024x768, usb, ps2 mouse/kbd, zip drive, etc... Slackware or Debian CD's (I don't have a burner) to use for a while. both would be cool so I could see and feel how they function. [can't apt-get much today as the debian site has some issues] I have lots of hard disk space (5 gig) so size is not really an issue. KDE 1.x ( anything so it runs fast on my old hardware) GLIPC 2.2.X or better (*_so I can run OpenOffice_*) Fast web browser eMail Apache (latest stable) MySQL (latest stable) PHP (latest stable) Samba (latest stable) Cups (latest stable) -other ?- Some games so I don't go nuts (oops to late) Administration tools GUI apt-get tool would be nice " must boot to shell " ideas ? Advice is welcome. Beer I'm going to be at the beer meeting (some how) but not for long. So I could pickup the CD's at the meeting. I can afford maybe 1 beer as I don't have a "job" right now. I will have some old laptops soon, (Toshiba, compaq, etc...) they will not have hard disk drives in them. They will be sold cheep because they don't have hard disk drives in them. They will be checked to be sure they function at a basic level. Did I say they will not have hard disks. Sam. Jima wrote: >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>If I could figure out what "rpmlib" is and get it installed I be less >>tired. >> >> > > It's not a package, per se. It's more of some functions that may or may >not exist in the version of RPM you have installed. Are you still using >the default? (`rpm -q rpm` will tell you; the default is, uh, 3.0.4-0.48) >If so, there's your problem; v3 pretty well sucks, and few people package >software for it. One of the first packages you need to upgrade to get >pretty much anywhere on 6.2 is rpm -- it should be sitting at 4.0.2-6x. > > > >>I've been attempting to install OpenOffice and get a message that GLIBC >>2.2 or better is needed, no big deal, I down load the rpm. When I try >>to install GLIBC 2.2.or better it tells me it can't find "rpmlib" I >>thought "just install a new version of RPM" but to do that I need >>"rpmlib". >> >> > > Like I said. Any RPM of glibc 2.2 would require RPM v4. Although I >don't think you want to "upgrade" -- rpm won't like it, and you'll almost >surely break your system by forcing it. > > Jima > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Fri Nov 21 11:52:22 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro Message-ID: How old are these laptops? >>> smac@visi.com 11/21/03 11:49AM >>> I will have some old laptops soon, (Toshiba, compaq, etc...) they will not have hard disk drives in them. They will be sold cheep because they don't have hard disk drives in them. They will be checked to be sure they function at a basic level. Did I say they will not have hard disks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik at andersonfam.org Fri Nov 21 11:52:34 2003 From: erik at andersonfam.org (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] debian kernel issues In-Reply-To: <20031121114053.6b195b36.william.layer@comcast.net> References: <3FBE34BD.90909@andersonfam.org> <20031121114053.6b195b36.william.layer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FBE50E2.70208@andersonfam.org> Bill Layer wrote: > Err, I believe EBDA == Extended Bios Data Area.. Yeah - that's right. I had a brain fart. > Usually, it's just a couple of bytes too large. This is an error I have heard of several times recently, but haven't heard any solutions. I do have some half-baked conjectures on it tho. > > I'm guessing that this area contains the vectors that LILO uses to deal with extended (large) disk geometry (like the 13h extension). If the area is the incorrect size, it might be stumping LILO on where to find the information it needs to determine the geometry of the disk. > > Did you dig into the LILO docs, to see if you can push EBDA info on it? Also, fwiw, I suspect that this system might be bootable from a floppy or other media.. you did get it set up and all.. temp workaround? Thanks for the recommendation - I guess I didn't think of the fact that it could be a lilo problem. I'll check it out. -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 12:07:36 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dog Gone! Message-ID: <3FBE5468.7070507@visi.com> Where is the beer meeting I must have #GULP# deleted the eMail. Sam. P.S. It's been a long 48 hours. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 11:59:31 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <20031121164646.GA4095@karl> References: <3FBDAB8F.2030604@visi.com> <20031121164646.GA4095@karl> Message-ID: <3FBE5283.2000604@visi.com> WOOHOO! a Wedgy :-D I'll be there but not for long $ prevent me from a good schmoose. Sam. Karl Bongers wrote: >On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:07:11AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: >... > > >>I've spent about 6 hours attempting to find out what it is and why it's >>needed to install almost anything on RH 6.2 that is new. The only good >> >> >... > > >>OpenOffice. I'm sort of to the point of installing NT and having a camp >>fire of Linux CD's (I'm really tired). >> >> > >Sam, if you come to the beer meeting tonight I'm going to give >you a wedgy. > >What you are trying to do is something akin to installing >Windows NT V3.5 and install IE5.5, or a USB camera. > >I tried installing the latest Java runtime on a dual boot NT4/Win95 box >w/48 meg of ram yesterday. Guess what, it sucked. JRE said I had to >upgrade to SP6A, and on W95 it installed but crashed horribly. >(Whine, whine, Sam, why can't I run JRE on a Win95/48MB machine?) > >So don't give us this bull about going back to windows to fix your >old distro problem. If you want to run and old distro, then run an >old distro. > >Chalk this up to a learning experience. Go install a new distro, >strip it down and run something that is less than a PIG on your >screaming P233 w/64M ram. I wouldn't run the latest Open Office >on this machine, or the latest GNOME or KDE. These are rather >large bloated applications. If you really must run this bloat, >then strip off other crap to make it all bearable(fit in memory). > >Stripping down RH9 is much more appropriate than trying to upgrade >from RH6. Install a minimal RH9, then turn off every single >etc/init.d service thing. Add the daemons back in if you need them. >Switch to using FVWM to make room for the BIG PIG OpenOffice. > >Maybe you were confused by Debians excellent upgradability. RH >is not the same. With RH6 you can't easily upgrade to >the lastest stuff. Wipe RH6 and install something newer and I will >buy you a beer instead of the wedgy. > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri Nov 21 12:09:25 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> (message from Jason Jorgensen on Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:40:08 -0600) References: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> Message-ID: <200311211809.hALI9Pt12079@ecstasy.winternet.com> Jason Jorgensen wrote: >I only suggest that you get fast hard drives for the myth server, also >try to use a dedicated partition for the storage so the shows don't ever >halt your OS. Watching shows on multiple clients while recording others >makes we worry about my poor drives. Has anyone tried using software or hardware RAID for this application? A simple RAID 0 (software or hardware and ATA or SCSI) might work well here instead of or in addition to fast hard drives. Redundancy wouldn't be that important for home use, but should be a consideration for office use. For performance and redundancy, RAID 01 or RAID 03 might be best, RAID 3 or 5 next best? There are a lot of older RAID hardware that would work fine for this application both at home and the office. There are a lot of computer recycling companies in the metro area that may have used RAID hardware for sale. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Nov 21 12:06:15 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro References: <3FBE5027.3000601@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBE5417.9030801@structural-wood.com> (I'm top posting 'cause I can't find the bottom of this message) Sam, As a 1st step towards speeding up your system, turn off antialiased fonts. I think you currently need to do this for gnome, kde, and openoffice seperately (yes this is inconvenient). As a 2nd step, look into lighter weight window managers (although metacity isn't too bad). 3rd step, upgrade to RedHat 9. The gnome that comes with RedHat 9 is the fastest gnome I've seen (comparable to the first X only gtk releases - maybe thats a little optimistic, but the speedup is pretty significant). This is linux - get rid of your window manager all together and just launch X with an xterm and type oowriter... Heck, get rid of X and just run on the fbdev. OK, so maybe the mantra KISMIF doesn't really float my boat. I'm more into the KICMIF. So, have fun, Kent Sam MacDonald wrote: > OK so*_ I think_* this is what I need, scope is on RH *plink* no more RH > (I have RH 8.0 on the other hard disk, it has everything working. But X > windows and OpenOffice are so slow.) > > KISMIF (Keep It Simple Make It Fun) > > I need to run my computer disposal business from this laptop, it works, > it's all I need, and it was free so that's even better. :-) > > > Micron TransPort XKE, P266mmx, 64 mb ram, 5 gig hd, cdrom, fdd, 2 @ > pcmcia > w/nic&modem, neomagic 128 XD video, ess sound, 13.3 active matrix @ > 1024x768, > usb, ps2 mouse/kbd, zip drive, etc... > > > > > Slackware or Debian CD's (I don't have a burner) to use for a while. > both would be cool so I could see and feel how they function. > [can't apt-get much today as the debian site has some issues] > > > > I have lots of hard disk space (5 gig) so size is not really an > issue. > KDE 1.x ( anything so it runs fast on my old hardware) > GLIPC 2.2.X or better (*_so I can run OpenOffice_*) > Fast web browser > eMail > Apache (latest stable) > MySQL (latest stable) > PHP (latest stable) > Samba (latest stable) > Cups (latest stable) > -other ?- > Some games so I don't go nuts (oops to late) > Administration tools > GUI apt-get tool would be nice > " must boot to shell " > ideas ? > > > > Advice is welcome. > > > > > Beer > > > I'm going to be at the beer meeting (some how) but not for long. So I > could pickup the CD's at the meeting. I can afford maybe 1 beer as I > don't have a "job" right now. > > > I will have some old laptops soon, (Toshiba, compaq, etc...) they will > not have hard disk drives in them. They will be sold cheep because they > don't have hard disk drives in them. They will be checked to be sure > they function at a basic level. Did I say they will not have hard disks. > > > Sam. > > Jima wrote: > >> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> >> >>> If I could figure out what "rpmlib" is and get it installed I be less >>> tired. >> >> >> It's not a package, per se. It's more of some functions that may or >> may not exist in the version of RPM you have installed. Are you still >> using the default? (`rpm -q rpm` will tell you; the default is, uh, >> 3.0.4-0.48) If so, there's your problem; v3 pretty well sucks, and >> few people package software for it. One of the first packages you >> need to upgrade to get pretty much anywhere on 6.2 is rpm -- it should >> be sitting at 4.0.2-6x. >> >> >> >>> I've been attempting to install OpenOffice and get a message that >>> GLIBC 2.2 or better is needed, no big deal, I down load the rpm. >>> When I try to install GLIBC 2.2.or better it tells me it can't find >>> "rpmlib" I thought "just install a new version of RPM" but to do >>> that I need "rpmlib". >> >> >> Like I said. Any RPM of glibc 2.2 would require RPM v4. Although I >> don't think you want to "upgrade" -- rpm won't like it, and you'll >> almost surely break your system by forcing it. >> >> Jima >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Fri Nov 21 12:07:41 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dog Gone! In-Reply-To: <3FBE5468.7070507@visi.com> Message-ID: Get all the details at http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Where is the beer meeting I must have #GULP# deleted the eMail. ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Fri Nov 21 12:19:20 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8EC@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> A guy I know just picked up an ultra-wide scsi controller, cables, sca adapters and two 10,000 rpm 18 gig drives for less $100 delivered. It'd probably work well for any live tv and playback. Just archive shows to cd or your massive IDE drive when the scsi's are getting full. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Fuchs [mailto:kfuchs@winternet.com] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:09 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [TCLUG] MythTV box Jason Jorgensen wrote: >I only suggest that you get fast hard drives for the myth server, also >try to use a dedicated partition for the storage so the shows don't ever >halt your OS. Watching shows on multiple clients while recording others >makes we worry about my poor drives. Has anyone tried using software or hardware RAID for this application? A simple RAID 0 (software or hardware and ATA or SCSI) might work well here instead of or in addition to fast hard drives. Redundancy wouldn't be that important for home use, but should be a consideration for office use. For performance and redundancy, RAID 01 or RAID 03 might be best, RAID 3 or 5 next best? There are a lot of older RAID hardware that would work fine for this application both at home and the office. There are a lot of computer recycling companies in the metro area that may have used RAID hardware for sale. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Nov 21 12:22:43 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBE5027.3000601@visi.com> References: <3FBE5027.3000601@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031121182243.GA25453@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 11:49:27AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I need to run my computer disposal business from this laptop, it > works, it's all I need, and it was free so that's even better. :-) Here's my computer disposal business model: 1. charge $$$ to take old computer 2a. advertize free computer on TCLUG 2b. have Minneapolis recycling take it away for free 3. profit! -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 12:42:20 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dog Gone! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBE5C8C.7090606@visi.com> I see the beer meetings are not on the meetings page. Doe! Justin Kremer wrote: >Get all the details at >http://www.mn-linux.org/beermeeting/ > >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>Where is the beer meeting I must have #GULP# deleted the eMail. >> >> > >------------- >Justin Kremer > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Fri Nov 21 12:43:22 2003 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] home users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBE5CCA.8070500@goldengate.net> >>Why do people think the home user is the holy grail of where linux should be or wants to go? Hi Bob, I are one, and that is why I got into Linux - I got tired of the instability, upgrade expense, and bunches of other stuff (licensing, activating,...) about M$. It is well worth the bit of learning curve, tweaking and digging around on the Net (and asking this list, thanks to all of you) to get it optimized and doing what I need. I'm now at the point of learning stuff beyond what I need just cause it's fun. Works fine for me, my wife, my daughter's boyfriend who occasionally uses web browsing and word processing. I very much want to see Linux presented as an option to intelligent home users, without any further dumbing down. I suspect I am not the only end user who is less than enamored with M$, and I'd like to get the word out that Linux has matured beyond its geeky reputation. I think Mandrake is ready now, as is. (Granted I am not a typical end user, I have 20 years in the programming and support business.) I'm not a large network sysadmin and never will be. I'm interested in where Linux is going for home users and small businesses. If I can help spread the word there I would be very pleased. Please note that I am responding to your comment and not knocking it. I don't think that Linux 'should' go anywhere, and I'm concerned that greed on the part of people who don't really understand Linux or Open Source could turn at least parts of Linux into yet another M$. -- Cheers, Charlie Obert " There is no energy crisis, food crisis or environmental crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance." - R. Buckminster Fuller _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 13:22:10 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> Pentium class From P90 to MP266mmx (MP = Mobil Pentium) In the next year or so I hope to pickup some PII machines. These will be cheep around $30, add a hard disk for about $30 (ebay), be a good project. The Micron I have is a nice old machine. I may have some 17 inch displays and some desktops (no hard disks) soon. Computer Disposal Service. We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in little bits. Sam. Troy.A Johnson wrote: >How old are these laptops? > > > >>>>smac@visi.com 11/21/03 11:49AM >>> >>>> >>>> > >I will have some old laptops soon, (Toshiba, compaq, etc...) they will > >not have hard disk drives in them. They will be sold cheep because >they >don't have hard disk drives in them. They will be checked to be sure >they function at a basic level. Did I say they will not have hard >disks. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben.neigebauer at compellent.com Fri Nov 21 13:47:35 2003 From: ben.neigebauer at compellent.com (Neigebauer, Ben) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro Message-ID: <146431CFD07FE94984B432636FCDF8060FB8ED@C1MAIL1.agiliti.net> Hey, I am interested in them as well. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: Troy.A Johnson [mailto:troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:52 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro How old are these laptops? >>> smac@visi.com 11/21/03 11:49AM >>> I will have some old laptops soon, (Toshiba, compaq, etc...) they will not have hard disk drives in them. They will be sold cheep because they don't have hard disk drives in them. They will be checked to be sure they function at a basic level. Did I say they will not have hard disks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Fri Nov 21 14:35:10 2003 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> References: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the > customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in > little bits. Unless you work for the NSA. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michael.arolan at excite.com Fri Nov 21 14:52:44 2003 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to turn off password check Message-ID: <20031121205244.24DC7299D2@xmxpita.excite.com> Hi Guys - How can I turn off checks made against a password e.g "password too short", "password is based on a dictionary word"... etc. For this pilot project we want users to be able to specify any password. Does anyone know how I can turn these checks off? Thanks guys. Michael _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 15:04:51 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: References: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBE7DF3.6000201@visi.com> The shredder chops them in to very small fragmented bits, sort of sad. Nate Carlson wrote: >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the >>customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in >>little bits. >> >> > >Unless you work for the NSA. :) > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Fri Nov 21 15:07:50 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to turn off password check In-Reply-To: <20031121205244.24DC7299D2@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031121205244.24DC7299D2@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <20031121210749.GB5701@fandre.com> If memory serves me, there should be a cracklib line in one of the files in /etc/pam.d/. Try commenting that out. I think you also need to remove the use_authtok in the line below it. On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Michael wrote: > > Hi Guys - > > > > How can I turn off checks made against a password e.g "password too short", "password is based on a dictionary word"... etc. For this pilot project we want users to be able to specify any password. > > > > Does anyone know how I can turn these checks off? > > > > Thanks guys. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Fri Nov 21 15:17:51 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] How to turn off password check In-Reply-To: <20031121205244.24DC7299D2@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031121205244.24DC7299D2@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <3FBE80FF.7060305@visi.com> Its buried in the PAM setup stuff - usually in /etc/pam.d. There is a config file that for the passwd command that points to the system-auth config file, on Redhat anyway. I assume that the cracklib reference is the one that enforces the password complexity but I'm not 100% sure. --rick Michael wrote: >Hi Guys - > > > >How can I turn off checks made against a password e.g "password too short", "password is based on a dictionary word"... etc. For this pilot project we want users to be able to specify any password. > > > >Does anyone know how I can turn these checks off? > > > >Thanks guys. > > > >Michael > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com >The most personalized portal on the Web! > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Nov 21 15:11:52 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: <16318.16827.830981.845231@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <16318.16827.830981.845231@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <3FBE7F98.2010603@eworld3.net> John may be on to something (or maybe just "on" something ;-) ). My opinion is that you should always name the interpretor at the top of a script as he suggests. Heck it can't hurt to try. Jon Schewe wrote: >>>>>>"JF" == Johnny Fulcrum writes: > > > JF> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:40 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > >> I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of > >> them execute just fine, however when I click on others they just bring > >> up a > >> dialog box that says "subjective.sh not found" where subjective.sh is the > >> name of the shell script. > > JF> Humm.. do the ones that work have a #!/usr/bin/bash (or whatever > JF> shell/interpeter you're using) as the first line? > > Actually none of them have that. If I write a shell script that's like so: > echo `pwd` > /tmp/foo > That works. However if it's something like this: > echo `pwd` > /tmp/foo > echo $PATH >> /tmp/foo > java -classpath foo.jar foo > It doesn't work, however it does write to /tmp/foo and java is in the > path. If I open up a shell propmpt and type ./foo.sh (containing either > set of commands) it works just fine. > > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Nov 21 15:14:25 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: References: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net> Heck, they're so paranoid they crush an shred their old keyboards. ;-) Nate Carlson wrote: > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >>We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the >>customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in >>little bits. > > > Unless you work for the NSA. :) > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 21 16:11:32 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net> References: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <200311211609.19801.Sam MacDonald <>> OH NO, we send them out and have the letters erased, that way no one can type on them :-0 Can't say I would want a used keyboard food, coffee, and soda. Great place to get a cold or flu, the unwashed hands... #BLEUUCH# :-0 Can't make the meeting, as I thought I might, my wife has plans with a friend tonight to see another friend at the U hospital. She had the surgery to staple her stomach #OUCH# Could I get sets of Debian and Slackware CD's from someone tomorrow. I'll travel where ever I need to, almost. I don't have a CD burner :-( It will be snowing so all weekend so the net will be really slow as well, perfect time to sit in front of the fire and install Linux distributions ;-) Sam. On Friday 21 November 2003 15:14, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Heck, they're so paranoid they crush an shred their old keyboards. ;-) > > Nate Carlson wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >>We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the > >>customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in > >>little bits. > > > > Unless you work for the NSA. :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Nov 21 16:17:25 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: <3FBE7F98.2010603@eworld3.net> References: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <16318.16827.830981.845231@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <3FBE7F98.2010603@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <16318.36597.403397.665970@workstation.mn.mtu.net> I tried setting the interpreter to /bin/sh and that didn't help either. >>>>> "RM" == Rick Meyerhoff writes: RM> John may be on to something (or maybe just "on" something ;-) ). My RM> opinion is that you should always name the interpretor at the top of a RM> script as he suggests. Heck it can't hurt to try. RM> Jon Schewe wrote: >>>>>>> "JF" == Johnny Fulcrum writes: >> >> JF> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:40 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: >> >> I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of >> >> them execute just fine, however when I click on others they just bring >> >> up a >> >> dialog box that says "subjective.sh not found" where subjective.sh is the >> >> name of the shell script. >> JF> Humm.. do the ones that work have a #!/usr/bin/bash (or whatever JF> shell/interpeter you're using) as the first line? >> >> Actually none of them have that. If I write a shell script that's like so: >> echo `pwd` > /tmp/foo >> That works. However if it's something like this: >> echo `pwd` > /tmp/foo >> echo $PATH >> /tmp/foo >> java -classpath foo.jar foo >> It doesn't work, however it does write to /tmp/foo and java is in the >> path. If I open up a shell propmpt and type ./foo.sh (containing either >> set of commands) it works just fine. >> >> RM> -- RM> Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Nov 21 16:36:43 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: <16318.36597.403397.665970@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <16318.16827.830981.845231@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <3FBE7F98.2010603@eworld3.net> <16318.36597.403397.665970@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <20031121223643.GA12757@therub.org> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 04:17:25PM -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > I tried setting the interpreter to /bin/sh and that didn't help either. > >> > JF> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:40 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: > >> >> I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of Could it be a path issue? Are the icons on the desktop shortcuts? If they are, make sure you have the full path specified in the properties of the shortcut. If the shell scripts are actually stored on the desktop, check the properties and add a full path if needed (I don't really know how that works because i don't store stuff on my desktop). dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Nov 21 16:45:11 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <>> References: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net> <200311211609.19801.Sam MacDonald <>> Message-ID: <3FBE9577.9010100@comcast.net> Hey Sam, If you live near the South East suburbs, feel free to stop by my house. I plan to do some work on my car this weekend, but that's about it. My address is below, give me a call first 651-450-7725. I've got Debian already, and can download Slackware, just tell me which version you want. Oh, and I don't have any blank CDRs left so you would need to bring some of your own. Todd Sam MacDonald wrote: > Could I get sets of Debian and Slackware CD's from someone tomorrow. I'll > travel where ever I need to, almost. I don't have a CD burner :-( It will > be snowing so all weekend so the net will be really slow as well, perfect > time to sit in front of the fire and install Linux distributions ;-) -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lynosull at umn.edu Fri Nov 21 17:22:26 2003 From: lynosull at umn.edu (Lyno Sullivan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Troy, Please give consideration to http://www.mncfs.org/ which gives or sells refurbished computers to schools. I believe public television has a video of the operation that may be available for viewing by potential equipment providers (corporations, etc.). This work is done by inmates of the Stillwater Prison. The MnCFS process guarantee to wipe the disks, in case your client would reconsider. I got a tour of their process and it is rock solid. Any inmate who was observed, by the ever present guards, even looking at the data on the disk before wiping would be immediately "fired." This would be a personal tragedy for most inmates because the computer refurbishing jobs are the most highly coveted. I was told directly by a very smart man, in prison for murder, that the general public can do no better thing than to increase the employment of the inmates. Work done by the inmates is very beneficial to their mental health and reduces the risk to society upon their release. The budget cuts have hit the prison system, various cell blocks are being converted to double bunking which will be very stressful for all concerned. The refurbishing work earns an inmate something like up to $1 per hour, from which they pay restitution, purchase personal items, beverages, etc. Imagine the incentive system that emerges when it takes 2 hours of one's life time to purchase such a luxury as a can of Coke. The refurbished machines of older generations are simply given to education. Newer generations of machines are sold for a modest fee. In addition to helping with the mental health of the inmates, the machines are also helping reduce the cost of Minnesota education. Thank you for pondering this matter. -- Lyno Sullivan Stillwater, MN Bcc: Director of Minnesota Computers for Schools (MnCFS) > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > On Behalf Of Troy.A Johnson > > > How old are these laptops? > > >>> smac@visi.com 11/21/03 11:49AM >>> > > I will have some old laptops soon, (Toshiba, compaq, etc...) they will > > not have hard disk drives in them. They will be sold cheep because > they > don't have hard disk drives in them. They will be checked to be sure > they function at a basic level. Did I say they will not have hard > disks. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From patrick.tibbetts at neicoltech.org Fri Nov 21 19:15:59 2003 From: patrick.tibbetts at neicoltech.org (Patrick Tibbetts) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and M$ and RH In-Reply-To: <006c01c3b03f$7cf58800$0300000a@net.tsinks> Message-ID: <000401c291c2$1786d330$189ec7c7@NEIM0974> Tim, Have you ever worked for Empi? -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sinks Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:55 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and M$ and RH The big thing about the use of Windows and associated os sw is the ability to move from work to home and on the road without a lot of shuffling. I can take a laptop to work with my Win and Office and move things back and forth from the work station to the laptop and never miss a beat. I can move things from my Linux to the M$ side of the laptop and back. If the home is left to Bill, then there is no hope for Linux. But, again the key is ease of use and all. You folks have missed the fact that RH can be had on several of the other big PC companies - Dell, HP, Sun. HP was the first with the package for the PC's and servers. The hold up is still the ability to move between systems and have all the bells and whistles associated with the packages you are going to use the most. This does not mean people use all or even a good portion of those attributes. I can't tell you how many desks or people I have come to help that have set up and get comfortable with something and work out a way to do something that isn't even the b&w which could make it easier. They say 'WOW' or 'I'll be' when you show them the fixture and it works. Or they continue to do it with their workaround because it's comfortable. We are creatures of habit and will, like water, seek the easiest path to nirvana or the ocean. Keep looking up, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Kaufman" To: ; "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? > On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 12:34:53AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Why do people think the home user is the holy grail of where linux should be > > or wants to go? > > > > -- > > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > > > > Linus thinks the desktop is where it's at. Servers are easy and Linux already > shines in that arena. Desktops are difficult to do right (so many variables in > hardware and software). > > If Linux focuses on the office desktop segment, then there would be a natural > tendency for those users to also want Linux at home. There might then be a > ripple effect in which spouses and children of those users start using Linux. > Further, w/o the home user (ie, lots and lots and lots of users), hardware > manufacturers have less incentive to provide support. > > Just seems to me that the more home users, then issues like "Why doesn't this > web page show the movie I expected?" and "Why doesn't this PC play music?" will > become non-issues because everthing will work as exepcted. > > -- > Jim Kaufman mailto:jmk@linuxforbusiness.net > Linux Evangelist cell: 612-481-9778 > public key 0x6D802619 fax: 952-937-9832 > http://www.linuxforbusiness.net > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Fri Nov 21 19:52:38 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <200311211609.19801.Sam MacDonald <>> References: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net> <200311211609.19801.Sam MacDonald <>> Message-ID: <1069465958.2346.4.camel@localhost> I have the ISO's of Mandrake 9.2, Redhat 9, Free BSD 5.1, Debian 3.0r1, Mandrake 9.1, Vector 4.0, College 2.3, Suse 8.2 Live Eval, got a brand new Lite-On 52x cdrw:) burn ya whatever ya want:) On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 16:11, an unknown sender wrote: > OH NO, we send them out and have the letters erased, that way no one can type > on them :-0 > > Can't say I would want a used keyboard food, coffee, and soda. Great place to > get a cold or flu, the unwashed hands... #BLEUUCH# :-0 > > Can't make the meeting, as I thought I might, my wife has plans with a friend > tonight to see another friend at the U hospital. She had the surgery to > staple her stomach #OUCH# > > Could I get sets of Debian and Slackware CD's from someone tomorrow. I'll > travel where ever I need to, almost. I don't have a CD burner :-( It will > be snowing so all weekend so the net will be really slow as well, perfect > time to sit in front of the fire and install Linux distributions ;-) > > Sam. > > On Friday 21 November 2003 15:14, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > Heck, they're so paranoid they crush an shred their old keyboards. ;-) > > > > Nate Carlson wrote: > > > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > >>We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the > > >>customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in > > >>little bits. > > > > > > Unless you work for the NSA. :) > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Nov 21 20:06:48 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: <20031121223643.GA12757@therub.org> References: <16318.14772.808534.850398@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <16318.16827.830981.845231@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <3FBE7F98.2010603@eworld3.net> <16318.36597.403397.665970@workstation.mn.mtu.net> <20031121223643.GA12757@therub.org> Message-ID: <16318.50360.919634.875855@workstation.mn.mtu.net> >>>>> "DR" == Dan Rue writes: DR> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 04:17:25PM -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: >> I tried setting the interpreter to /bin/sh and that didn't help either. >> >> JF> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:13:40 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote: >> >> >> I've got some shell scripts that I've put on my desktop in KDE. Some of DR> Could it be a path issue? Are the icons on the desktop shortcuts? If DR> they are, make sure you have the full path specified in the properties DR> of the shortcut. If the shell scripts are actually stored on the DR> desktop, check the properties and add a full path if needed (I don't DR> really know how that works because i don't store stuff on my desktop). I tried putting the full path to java in there and that didn't help either. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Fri Nov 21 20:13:57 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache+SSL+self signed certs help? Message-ID: I'm looking for a quick and dirty method of setting up Apache for SSL. I know nothing about creating self signed certificates or getting Apache to use https://. So far I've gotten mod_ssl installed and working. I've got my VirtualHost directive set up, just a simple: ServerName ssl.mydomain.com DocumentRoot /var/www/ssldocs/ I'm looking for HOWTOs but everyone seems to assume I'm a cryptography expert. Is there any quick and dirty method to get a secure https:// connection working? -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Fri Nov 21 21:05:21 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: <16318.50360.919634.875855@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Jon Schewe wrote: > I tried putting the full path to java in there and that didn't help either. for it to be a proper shell script it has to start with #!/bin/bash (or sh, tcsh, pdksh, csh, zsh etc etc etc) without that and you may get wierd errors, with it. if you do get errors it helps you debug. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dante at argle.org Fri Nov 21 21:22:20 2003 From: dante at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache+SSL+self signed certs help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not exactly Q+D, but you need to generate the keys and update the SSL config for mod_ssl. Make sure you have the Docs for mod_ssl installed, there is a good example to work from in there. On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Brian wrote: > I'm looking for a quick and dirty method of setting up Apache for SSL. I > know nothing about creating self signed certificates or getting Apache to > use https://. > > So far I've gotten mod_ssl installed and working. I've got my VirtualHost > directive set up, just a simple: > > > ServerName ssl.mydomain.com > DocumentRoot /var/www/ssldocs/ > > > I'm looking for HOWTOs but everyone seems to assume I'm a cryptography > expert. Is there any quick and dirty method to get a secure https:// > connection working? > > -Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Daniel Taylor dante@argle.org Forget diamonds, Copyright is forever. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Fri Nov 21 21:52:18 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <200311211809.hALI9Pt12079@ecstasy.winternet.com> References: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> <200311211809.hALI9Pt12079@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: <1069473136.22134.60.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Nov 21 22:47:56 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache+SSL+self signed certs help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031121224756.00006610.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:13:57 -0600 (CST) Brian wrote: > I'm looking for a quick and dirty method of setting up Apache for SSL. I > know nothing about creating self signed certificates or getting Apache to > use https://. Thawte actually has a pretty good article here: http://www.thawte.com/html/SUPPORT/keygen/mod_ssl.html The step allows you to set up a test self-signed certificate. You'll get the annoying browser prompt each time you go to the site, but at least it'll be encrypted. Thawte is a little cheaper than Verisign, I use them for SSL. > > ServerName ssl.mydomain.com > DocumentRoot /var/www/ssldocs/ > Something that took a while for me to get with SSL is that you cannot do name based virtual hosting using SSL, so if ssl.mydomain.com is the only domain you have, this will work, but if you want to have multiple ssl domains, you will need a different solution, probably more IP addresses. It's because of the protocol. See here: http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#vhosts2 Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Fri Nov 21 23:44:05 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net><3FBD1061.103@visi.com> <00dd01c3afd3$91d1c570$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <028101c3b0bb$a449d1a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> David Dyer-Bennet writes: > He said a *compressed* tar archive. The compressor/decompressor runs > in a separate process. Hence that would load both processors (and > does here, when I do it). Ah, you're right, I wasn't thinking about the compressed part. Though it probably isn't a good test, as tar will normally use less than 1% of the CPU that gzip does (as tested on my SMP machine with IDE disks). -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Nov 21 23:55:43 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <1069473136.22134.60.camel@bigtime> References: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> <200311211809.hALI9Pt12079@ecstasy.winternet.com> <1069473136.22134.60.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031122055543.GY21392@techmonkeys.org> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 22 00:43:32 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <1069465958.2346.4.camel@localhost> References: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net> <200311211609.19801.Sam MacDonald <>> <1069465958.2346.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3FBF0594.8050400@visi.com> Free BSD sounds interesting, it's not Linux.... Have you ever run Free BSD? How similar is it to Linux in X windows performance? Scott J Julian wrote: >I have the ISO's of Mandrake 9.2, Redhat 9, Free BSD 5.1, Debian 3.0r1, >Mandrake 9.1, Vector 4.0, College 2.3, Suse 8.2 Live Eval, got a brand >new Lite-On 52x cdrw:) burn ya whatever ya want:) On Fri, >2003-11-21 at 16:11, an unknown sender wrote: > > >>OH NO, we send them out and have the letters erased, that way no one can type >>on them :-0 >> >>Can't say I would want a used keyboard food, coffee, and soda. Great place to >>get a cold or flu, the unwashed hands... #BLEUUCH# :-0 >> >>Can't make the meeting, as I thought I might, my wife has plans with a friend >>tonight to see another friend at the U hospital. She had the surgery to >>staple her stomach #OUCH# >> >>Could I get sets of Debian and Slackware CD's from someone tomorrow. I'll >>travel where ever I need to, almost. I don't have a CD burner :-( It will >>be snowing so all weekend so the net will be really slow as well, perfect >>time to sit in front of the fire and install Linux distributions ;-) >> >>Sam. >> >>On Friday 21 November 2003 15:14, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: >> >> >>>Heck, they're so paranoid they crush an shred their old keyboards. ;-) >>> >>>Nate Carlson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>We crush and shred the hard disks, even if they work, thats the way the >>>>>customers want it. No way to extract data from them if they are in >>>>>little bits. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Unless you work for the NSA. :) >>>> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Sat Nov 22 00:35:59 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Simple backup system Message-ID: Hey all, I need a simple backup system. I just want to be able to backup my etc files, my home directories, web roots and a few other folders. I was hoping that there is a program that has a gui and also a scheduler of some sort. Any suggestions? TOm _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From followerofhim2001 at comcast.net Sat Nov 22 01:01:35 2003 From: followerofhim2001 at comcast.net (Edward Fleming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound with RedHat Message-ID: <3FBF09CF.3090305@comcast.net> I put RedHat 9.2 on my computer, but it sound not see the sound card. Not I also have KNOPPIX which see the sound card fine. How can I get RedHat to see the sound card and use it? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From phptom at wordesign.net Sat Nov 22 01:20:06 2003 From: phptom at wordesign.net (PHPTOm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound with RedHat In-Reply-To: <3FBF09CF.3090305@comcast.net> Message-ID: I put RedHat 9.2 on my computer, but it sound not see the sound card. > Not I also have KNOPPIX which see the sound card fine. How can I get > RedHat to see the sound card and use it? Look into ALSA http://www.alsa-project.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sat Nov 22 01:34:48 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro References: <3FBE8031.9080105@eworld3.net><200311211609.19801.Sam MacDonald <>><1069465958.2346.4.camel@localhost> <3FBF0594.8050400@visi.com> Message-ID: <030701c3b0cb$1c296370$0201a8c0@brinstar> Sam MacDonald writes: > Free BSD sounds interesting, it's not Linux.... FreeBSD is a complete operating system. Linux is just a kernel. There is only one FreeBSD. Saying you run "Linux" means you are running one of over a hundred different Linux-based operating systems. FreeBSD has the advantage of consistency. Do a Google search for something on FreeBSD and it will very likely be relevant to your operating system. The same does not always hold true for Linux. Plus, since all of the core operating system components are part of the OS, they are generally more consistent with each other than what you get on a typical Linux distro. > Have you ever run Free BSD? The company I work for runs FreeBSD on over fifty production servers. > How similar is it to Linux in X windows performance? It should be roughly comparable to that of Linux 2.4. Video drivers are in XFree86, not in the kernel, so they will be the same. NVIDIA now has drivers for FreeBSD, so you should be able to get 3D performance comparable to what you get on Linux and Windows. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Nov 22 07:37:37 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache+SSL+self signed certs help? In-Reply-To: <20031121224756.00006610.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Thawte actually has a pretty good article here: http://www.thawte.com/html/SUPPORT/keygen/mod_ssl.html Sweet, that helped a lot. I've got my certificates built and I've modified httpd.conf. > Something that took a while for me to get with SSL is that you cannot > do name based virtual hosting using SSL Hmm... that is an issue. I suppose I can work around it without too much trouble, but I was hoping to create a bunch of named based virtual hosts. My next problem is that Apache won't listen to port 443. I added Listen 443 to section 1 of httpd.conf, I created and added Port 443 as a directive underneath it. Still, nmap shows that apache isn't listening on 443. What am I missing? -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lxy at cloudnet.com Sat Nov 22 08:09:17 2003 From: lxy at cloudnet.com (Brian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Apache+SSL+self signed certs help? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Nov 2003, Brian wrote: > My next problem is that Apache won't listen to port 443. Ok, I fixed this one. Make sure all your other VirtualHost directives are set to listen to port 80, ie . I'm up and running, thanks everyone for the help! -Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 22 08:53:43 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound with RedHat In-Reply-To: <3FBF09CF.3090305@comcast.net> References: <3FBF09CF.3090305@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200311220853.43350.smac@visi.com> From a Terminal run "sndconfig" in RedHat. If you can't find "sndconfig" you will need to install it from the "rpm". You will need to know what sound card you have, and the settings it needs. If you don't, you can try the driver you think will work (many drivers). Try the "soundblaster" drivers, some times the card is compatable. You will also have to figure out the settings for the card. because they will be different then the exact driver for your card. I have an ESS1879 on this laptop, after searching the web I found that the ESS1868 is close to the ESS1879. I can play CD's but wave files don't work right. I could play with the settings but all I want is CD music. I'll fix it when I really need it. Sam. I think I answered a question guys :-) On Saturday 22 November 2003 01:01, Edward Fleming wrote: > I put RedHat 9.2 on my computer, but it sound not see the sound card. > Not I also have KNOPPIX which see the sound card fine. How can I get > RedHat to see the sound card and use it? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 22 09:37:48 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <030701c3b0cb$1c296370$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <3FBF0594.8050400@visi.com> <030701c3b0cb$1c296370$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <200311220937.48236.smac@visi.com> OK now I think is see "MY" problem. I'm looking for something consistent when it comes to OS, with Linux having 100's of distributions finding that consistency (for ME) may be an issue. I need 1 place to go for solutions. That's how M$ did it, they made themselves the 1 place to go. Novell said use M$ on the desktop, Apple never got a server OS going, RH is saying the same thing now, IBM is so big they don't give a rats backside what their customers use on the desktop. Business's don't need X and M$ guys to support the business at that point. It's less expensive to use a consistent and complete OS then several. A "consistent" "complete OS" is what the home and "small" business users need and want as well. Having 100's of choices makes the decision a difficult and a protracted learning expierance. Sorting out what distribution to use when they are so similar and so different is not easy. If I have to know them all (to some extent) I need to know Free BSD as well. If I can say to someone that I use a solution (Free BSD) that doesn't have an attached question "but what about A,B,C and D" then I have a leg up. I can then start moving them from M$ to X and that is the primary "ideal" isn't it? I'm not asking to be convinced to use any specific distribution. I want to know it will be there in 6 months and not aquired by big blue or who ever. I'm the guy expierementing to see what will work, will be easy on the desktop, will be easy on the server, will be easy on the budget, and will be easy to support. If the answer to the questions is 4 or 5 distributions compaired to 1, the answer is the 1. IMHO a small business owener or home user wanting to move away from M$ will go with the 1. I'm putting on the fire proof suite and standing in Lake Superior again. Sam. PS 3D performance is not what I'm looking for but sounds good for the home user. Being a home user I may test it out if I can get it to run well. On Saturday 22 November 2003 01:34, David Phillips wrote: > Sam MacDonald writes: > > Free BSD sounds interesting, it's not Linux.... > > FreeBSD is a complete operating system. Linux is just a kernel. There is > only one FreeBSD. Saying you run "Linux" means you are running one of over > a hundred different Linux-based operating systems. > > FreeBSD has the advantage of consistency. Do a Google search for something > on FreeBSD and it will very likely be relevant to your operating system. > The same does not always hold true for Linux. Plus, since all of the core > operating system components are part of the OS, they are generally more > consistent with each other than what you get on a typical Linux distro. > > > Have you ever run Free BSD? > > The company I work for runs FreeBSD on over fifty production servers. > > > How similar is it to Linux in X windows performance? > > It should be roughly comparable to that of Linux 2.4. Video drivers are in > XFree86, not in the kernel, so they will be the same. NVIDIA now has > drivers for FreeBSD, so you should be able to get 3D performance comparable > to what you get on Linux and Windows. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sat Nov 22 10:46:36 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound with RedHat In-Reply-To: <3FBF09CF.3090305@comcast.net> References: <3FBF09CF.3090305@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FBF92EC.5030403@comcast.net> As root type in "sndconfig", it should walk you through setting up the sound card. If you type in sndconfig and nothing happens, then it wasn't installed. Go to the Software Installation GUI and search for it and install it, then run it. Side note for those who don't know, the same "sndconfig" is available with Mandrake Linux also, since Mandrake is based off RedHat. Edward Fleming wrote: > I put RedHat 9.2 on my computer, but it sound not see the sound card. > Not I also have KNOPPIX which see the sound card fine. How can I get > RedHat to see the sound card and use it? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Nov 22 10:59:09 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> References: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FBF95DD.9090901@eworld3.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > Pentium class > From P90 to MP266mmx (MP = Mobil Pentium) > In the next year or so I hope to pickup some PII machines. > These will be cheep around $30, add a hard disk for about $30 (ebay), > be a good project. Just to be clear... If you remove and shred *just* the drive and not any HD mounting hardware then it should be simple to buy and install a laptop sized drive. Do you just remove the drive itself? -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Nov 22 11:52:24 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311221752.hAMHqO814534@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: AMD Duron 600 CPU and Fan In case anyone is interested in a Duron 600MHz CPU and Cooler Master fan... They work. Take 'em both for $20.00. I live in Eden Prairie. I work in Bloomington. Let's talk. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Nov 22 12:30:37 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <200311220937.48236.smac@visi.com> References: <3FBF0594.8050400@visi.com> <030701c3b0cb$1c296370$0201a8c0@brinstar> <200311220937.48236.smac@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031122183037.GC21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 09:37:48AM -0600, Sam MacDonald wrote: > OK now I think is see "MY" problem. > > I'm looking for something consistent when it comes to OS, with Linux having > 100's of distributions finding that consistency (for ME) may be an issue. I > need 1 place to go for solutions. Yes, there are hundreds of distributions. There are also hundreds of BSD implementations, as well as 3 different 'free' BSD's (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD) Despite all that, there's the most popular versions, and they are the ones that are supported. If you've ever worked tech support, you would also know that there's also hundreds of windows distributions -- each PC maker wants to customize their installation a little different, and it always causes a hassle. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Nov 22 13:10:29 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Konqueror won't execute shell scripts??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FBFB4A5.2030104@eworld3.net> And it must be the *very*first* line in the file and I think it has to look exactly like what Munir has, no blanks or other chars. Munir Nassar wrote: > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Jon Schewe wrote: > > >>I tried putting the full path to java in there and that didn't help either. > > > for it to be a proper shell script it has to start with #!/bin/bash (or > sh, tcsh, pdksh, csh, zsh etc etc etc) > > without that and you may get wierd errors, with it. if you do get errors > it helps you debug. > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Nov 22 13:16:37 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311221916.hAMJGbB15623@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Free Monitor, Full Tower Case and Scanner I was doing some Winter cleaning and found some hardware that my wife wanted to throw out. I figured I'd give someone on here a chance to get it before the garbage man. All items are free and you can pick them up or I can deliver them within the Twin Cities area. Send me an email at nate@javaranch.com with 'TCLUG classied' in the title if you are interested in any of this. 17-inch Samtron monitor. Replaced with an LCD monitor and worked the last time I used it. Full tower case with 250 watt power supply. Picked this up at a yard sale last year and was going to use it to build a computer. Ended up buying a new case because some of the components I was using needed a 300 watt power supply and it was cheaper with a case. Acer Flatbed scanner. Replaced by a HP multipurpose device. Worked the last time I used it a few years ago. Thanks, -Nate http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 22 13:35:19 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [OT] Old laptops was Re: [TCLUG] new distro In-Reply-To: <3FBF95DD.9090901@eworld3.net> References: <3FBE65E2.6000104@visi.com> <3FBF95DD.9090901@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <200311221335.19685.smac@visi.com> Correct we leave the caddy/drawer/carrier or what ever they are called this week. And that is important. I was looking on ebay for a second drawer for my Micron. They are selling from 10 to 30 dollars! I was really surprised, I figured 5 bucks. Sam. On Saturday 22 November 2003 10:59, Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Pentium class > > From P90 to MP266mmx (MP = Mobil Pentium) > > In the next year or so I hope to pickup some PII machines. > > These will be cheep around $30, add a hard disk for about $30 (ebay), > > be a good project. > > Just to be clear... > If you remove and shred *just* the drive and not any HD mounting > hardware then it should be simple to buy and install a laptop sized > drive. Do you just remove the drive itself? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Sat Nov 22 14:03:00 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat AS for ppc? Message-ID: <200311221403.00859@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Anyone know anything about Redhat's AS for ppc? I'm seeing this come across the mirror now. linux/beta/taroon/en/as/ppc/RedHat/RPMS/tcpdump-3.7.2-5.ppc.rpm ... .... -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sat Nov 22 17:30:07 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) Message-ID: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> I've been helping a friend of mine who lives out of state switch over to Linux. I sent him RH9, and he's got it installed. He's currently dual booting his system, but has had problems with Windows destroying the MBR and taking out GRUB. Thus, only letting him get into Windows now. He's really enjoying RH right now, and wants to get rid of Windows in the worst way but he still needs to do some data migration. I did some googling, and found a way to make a restore disk once he's got the Linux system back. But didn't come up with a good scenario on how to get the system to allow him to restore GRUB. He's got a very slow internet connection (28.8 dial-up IIRC), and all he has are the set of RH9 discs that I burned and sent him from the TCLUG mirror. What would be his best option to restore GRUB to allow him to get back into Linux boot? Can he use one of the RH discs as a rescue disc, or is he stuck doing a reload or something else? He's got his RH side pretty much configured and doesn't want to have to reconfigure anything if he can help it. I could burn and ship him a rescue disc, but it'd be a few days before it got to him. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sat Nov 22 17:49:38 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card Message-ID: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> Anyone use a Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card with their Linux? It seems that newegg isn't listing the WinTV 250 anymore. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pcrissman at lwcc.org Sat Nov 22 11:54:06 2003 From: pcrissman at lwcc.org (Phil Crissman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1069523646.3694.24.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2003-11-22 at 23:30, Shawn wrote: > I've been helping a friend of mine who lives out of state switch over to Linux. I sent him RH9, and he's got it installed. He's currently dual booting his system, but has had problems with Windows destroying the MBR and taking out GRUB. Thus, only letting him get into Windows now. > > He's really enjoying RH right now, and wants to get rid of Windows in the worst way but he still needs to do some data migration. > > I did some googling, and found a way to make a restore disk once he's got the Linux system back. But didn't come up with a good scenario on how to get the system to allow him to restore GRUB. He's got a very slow internet connection (28.8 dial-up IIRC), and all he has are the set of RH9 discs that I burned and sent him from the TCLUG mirror. What would be his best option to restore GRUB to allow him to get back into Linux boot? Can he use one of the RH discs as a rescue disc, or is he stuck doing a reload or something else? He's got his RH side pretty much configured and doesn't want to have to reconfigure anything if he can help it. I could burn and ship him a rescue disc, but it'd be a few days before it got to him. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I had similar problems awhile back, and at the time it was easier for me just to reinstall(ack) -- not the answer you want, I know :-) Since he just has 56k, downloading Knoppix or a Gentoo live CD is probably not an option... if it were, it might help a little. I'm guessing he didn't make a redhat boot floppy, even though anaconda strongly recommended it? :-) He could try to use the rh9 cds, and it should detect that there is already a rh9 system on the hard drive, and ask him if he'd like to upgrade or repair it; I haven't done this recently, though. I don't know if these thoughts will be helpful, but they might inspire some other ideas, hopefully. Good luck, Phil _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Sat Nov 22 18:26:54 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <1069523646.3694.24.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20031123003102.44553228E5@azimmer.com> I've recently had someone run a repair on Red Hat 9 successfully by booting to the first Red Had 9 CD. Andrew _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drake at math.umn.edu Sat Nov 22 18:34:32 2003 From: drake at math.umn.edu (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200311221916.hAMJGbB15623@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200311221916.hAMJGbB15623@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031123003432.GA18236@math.umn.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Nov 22 19:30:24 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <20031123003432.GA18236@math.umn.edu> References: <200311221916.hAMJGbB15623@crusader.real-time.com> <20031123003432.GA18236@math.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200311221930.24763.smac@visi.com> That would be my job :-) I do disposal of data provessing equipment. Every item is disposed of properly. Sam. On Saturday 22 November 2003 18:34, Dan Drake wrote: > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 at 13:16 -0600, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > Subject: Free Monitor, Full Tower Case and Scanner > > > > I was doing some Winter cleaning and found some hardware that my wife > > wanted to throw out. I figured I'd give someone on here a chance to > > get it before the garbage man. > > Hopefully you're disposing of your electronics responsibly and not just > tossing them in the trash. Monitors in particular contain lots of metals > that really shouldn't wind up in landfills... > > Materials Processing is a good place to get rid of old hardware > (assuming no one wants your monitor, tower, or scanner): > > http://www.materialsprocessing.com/ > > > Dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thurianknight at earthlink.net Sat Nov 22 20:16:55 2003 From: thurianknight at earthlink.net (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Test, please ignore Message-ID: <3FC01897.6090502@earthlink.net> Testing change of email address. -- Dave Sherman - MCSE, MCSA, CCNA Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sat Nov 22 20:50:37 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031123025037.GA15319@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 05:30:07PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > I've been helping a friend of mine who lives out of state switch over > to Linux. I sent him RH9, and he's got it installed. He's currently > dual booting his system, but has had problems with Windows destroying > the MBR and taking out GRUB. Thus, only letting him get into Windows > now. Sounds like a job for an emergency GRUB boot floppy. Or he could boot from the RH recovery CD. -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at rosengren.org Sat Nov 22 22:44:44 2003 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy A. Rosengren) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat AS for ppc? In-Reply-To: <200311221403.00859@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311221403.00859@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FC03B3C.70409@rosengren.org> Bob Tanner wrote: >Anyone know anything about Redhat's AS for ppc? > >I'm seeing this come across the mirror now. > >linux/beta/taroon/en/as/ppc/RedHat/RPMS/tcpdump-3.7.2-5.ppc.rpm >... >.... > > > According to the info here: http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/as/, RHEL AS supports the IBM eServer pSeries, which contain POWER4 processors. -- jeremy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sat Nov 22 22:41:56 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Is anyone looking for a P1 system to use as a dedicated firewall? Message-ID: <3FC03A94.8020107@comcast.net> Computer Surplus Outlet has some for only $29. http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/viewproduct.asp?PID=COM-C233BB&LID=137 -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 23 09:22:33 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <1069523646.3694.24.camel@localhost> References: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> <1069523646.3694.24.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20031123092233.6bcdd603.sfertch@real-time.com> Thanks for the tips on using the RH discs to either repair or reinstall. I'm not sure if he did create a boot diskette, otherwise, I'm sure he would have used that. I'll pass on the information. Thanks again. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duncan at sodatrain.com Sun Nov 23 09:51:30 2003 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (Duncan Shannon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: <200311210047.52020@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> <200311210047.52020@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: >>> Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the >>> Twin >>> Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K >> >> Im satisfied with Onvoy. I have a full rack there (had a half rack for >> a year, was able to get the other half rack below me for a full rack) > > If they where still mr.net, I'd say yeah, but Onvoy, no. Most of their > best > technical talent left (imho). Interesting. Back when we picked our colo provider, it was either Onvoy or Visi. The pricing was about the same. I work in Long Lake (just west of wayzata) so the plymouth location of Onvoy was favorable, as opposed to downtown st. paul (where visi is right?) I went to check out their data center, it seemed pretty ok. The only other datacenter/colo places i had been in were Exodus/Cable and Wireless in Boston (which was huge, held places like excite which was very entertaining to gawk at all the hardware). Onvoy is obviously much smaller but seemed ok. In the end, the decision was made pretty easy (for my boss at least) when we looked at the financials of each company. Onvoy had been around a while (at least as the 13 other local telco's that they existed as) and had money in the bank where as VISI had not been around all that long and hard a lot of debt to their name. Onvoy was clearly the more stable company when looking at it financially. I was pretty sure i didnt want to have switch data centers if one went under. duncan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pclinux at charter.net Sun Nov 23 10:21:20 2003 From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031123101527.01c41f30@pop.charter.net> It's not bad at all - http://www.sorgonet.com/linux/grubrestore/ PS. this is why I personally like to the install GRUB or LILO right to /boot & not the MBR of the drive. My personal favorite is to then use GAG http://sourceforge.net/projects/gag either on a floppy or mbr. Works great. At 06:00 PM 11/22/2003, you wrote: >I've been helping a friend of mine who lives out of state switch over to >Linux. I sent him RH9, and he's got it installed. He's currently dual >booting his system, but has had problems with Windows destroying the MBR >and taking out GRUB. Thus, only letting him get into Windows now. > >He's really enjoying RH right now, and wants to get rid of Windows in the >worst way but he still needs to do some data migration. > >I did some googling, and found a way to make a restore disk once he's got >the Linux system back. But didn't come up with a good scenario on how to >get the system to allow him to restore GRUB. He's got a very slow >internet connection (28.8 dial-up IIRC), and all he has are the set of RH9 >discs that I burned and sent him from the TCLUG mirror. What would be his >best option to restore GRUB to allow him to get back into Linux boot? Can >he use one of the RH discs as a rescue disc, or is he stuck doing a reload >or something else? He's got his RH side pretty much configured and >doesn't want to have to reconfigure anything if he can help it. I could >burn and ship him a rescue disc, but it'd be a few days before it got to him. > >Thanks in advance for any suggestions. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 23 10:54:00 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? (Off Topic - Sort of) In-Reply-To: References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> <200311210047.52020@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FC0E628.2000804@visi.com> I use Visi for my ISP, I can't say I've had 1 full hour of down time in about 2 years. I like Visi because they are local and the support staff is great. Yes they are right down town. Perhaps everyone in the group could do a review of their ISP's, co locator's, etc.. and put it up on the TCLUG site. This would help people get a feel for the ISP's and co locator's in the area. Duncan Shannon wrote: >>>> Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin >>>> Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K >>> >>> >>> Im satisfied with Onvoy. I have a full rack there (had a half rack for >>> a year, was able to get the other half rack below me for a full rack) >> >> >> If they where still mr.net, I'd say yeah, but Onvoy, no. Most of >> their best >> technical talent left (imho). > > > > Interesting. Back when we picked our colo provider, it was either > Onvoy or Visi. The pricing was about the same. I work in Long Lake > (just west of wayzata) so the plymouth location of Onvoy was > favorable, as opposed to downtown st. paul (where visi is right?) > > I went to check out their data center, it seemed pretty ok. The only > other datacenter/colo places i had been in were Exodus/Cable and > Wireless in Boston (which was huge, held places like excite which was > very entertaining to gawk at all the hardware). Onvoy is obviously > much smaller but seemed ok. > > In the end, the decision was made pretty easy (for my boss at least) > when we looked at the financials of each company. Onvoy had been > around a while (at least as the 13 other local telco's that they > existed as) and had money in the bank where as VISI had not been > around all that long and hard a lot of debt to their name. Onvoy was > clearly the more stable company when looking at it financially. I was > pretty sure i didnt want to have switch data centers if one went under. > > duncan > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 23 10:58:09 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ipcop firewall In-Reply-To: <3FBCE7C1.20209@eworld3.net> References: <3FBBEF08.6030309@eworld3.net> <20031119192213.A13477@thinkunix.net> <3FBC519D.2000506@comcast.net> <20031119234905.A29374@thinkunix.net> <3FBCE7C1.20209@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20031123105809.25160465.sfertch@real-time.com> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:11:45 -0600 Rick Meyerhoff wrote: > > Is this what you mean, because it doesn't work: > > domain localdomain # i think i need this? > nameserver 206.144.175.121 # ISPs primary DNS server > nameserver 206.144.175.124 # ISPs secondary DNS server > nameserver 192.168.1.3 #IPCop > > Oh, I have /etc/hosts entries on Mandrake, will they get in the way? > Did I mention that I'm sorta clueless when it comes to networking. I'm > working with this to try to get a clue. > Rick, try adding a line to your /etc/resolv.conf such as: search yourispdomain.com Your /etc/hosts entries shouldn't interfere with the resolv.conf entries, UNLESS your IP's are different between them. Take a look at the last line you have above, is that the correct IP of your IPCop system? Or is it different? -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 23 10:53:00 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card In-Reply-To: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <20031123165300.GG21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 05:49:38PM -0600, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Anyone use a Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card with their Linux? It > seems that newegg isn't listing the WinTV 250 anymore. This card doesn't have much functionality under Linux, you would have a lot more luck with the WinTV PVR 250 or 350, either from newegg or elsewhere. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net Sun Nov 23 11:09:53 2003 From: Scott_J_Julian at comcast.net (Scott J Julian) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? (Off Topic - Sort of) In-Reply-To: <3FC0E628.2000804@visi.com> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> <200311210047.52020@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <3FC0E628.2000804@visi.com> Message-ID: <1069607392.2419.1.camel@localhost> I used Visi as my first ISP in 97, went to downtown mpls and a got a tour of their setup, i thought it was cool as shit at the time, never seen anything like the insides of an isp before. On Sun, 2003-11-23 at 10:54, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I use Visi for my ISP, I can't say I've had 1 full hour of down time in > about 2 years. > > I like Visi because they are local and the support staff is great. Yes > they are right down town. > > > Perhaps everyone in the group could do a review of their ISP's, co > locator's, etc.. and put it up on the TCLUG site. This would help people > get a feel for the ISP's and co locator's in the area. > > > > Duncan Shannon wrote: > > >>>> Besides visi.com, anyone know of reputable colo space here in the Twin > >>>> Cities or nearby area? Looking for 1/2 rack with at least 512K > >>> > >>> > >>> Im satisfied with Onvoy. I have a full rack there (had a half rack for > >>> a year, was able to get the other half rack below me for a full rack) > >> > >> > >> If they where still mr.net, I'd say yeah, but Onvoy, no. Most of > >> their best > >> technical talent left (imho). > > > > > > > > Interesting. Back when we picked our colo provider, it was either > > Onvoy or Visi. The pricing was about the same. I work in Long Lake > > (just west of wayzata) so the plymouth location of Onvoy was > > favorable, as opposed to downtown st. paul (where visi is right?) > > > > I went to check out their data center, it seemed pretty ok. The only > > other datacenter/colo places i had been in were Exodus/Cable and > > Wireless in Boston (which was huge, held places like excite which was > > very entertaining to gawk at all the hardware). Onvoy is obviously > > much smaller but seemed ok. > > > > In the end, the decision was made pretty easy (for my boss at least) > > when we looked at the financials of each company. Onvoy had been > > around a while (at least as the 13 other local telco's that they > > existed as) and had money in the bank where as VISI had not been > > around all that long and hard a lot of debt to their name. Onvoy was > > clearly the more stable company when looking at it financially. I was > > pretty sure i didnt want to have switch data centers if one went under. > > > > duncan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 23 11:19:55 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info Message-ID: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> I think I posted this question up a while ago, but don't recall an answer. I've been trying to get an IPCop firewall setup for a friend of mine using US Cable (Warpdriveonline) as his internet provider. I'm using IPCop to do so. I've tried at least 10 times now to get the DHCP server address information from the ISP, and they won't give it out. They'll give out DNS server, but no DHCP or gateway info. On Friday, someone else I know was getting it (cable modem) installed. I asked them to get the info from the tech, and they were told "Firewalls do not require the DHCP, or gateway address. You don't need that information." I also asked them to inquire about MAC assignments, and they were told they don't use MAC assignments. All of that is a crock, IMO. They do use MAC assignments. I brought my laptop up to see if I could get the DHCP info, and it wouldn't allow my laptop on the network. Even after sitting for quite a while connected. I was getting a link light, and could even do a crossover to the desktop and get connectivity between machines, but not with the ISP. Is there a way to force them to give up the information? I'm down to the last step of dragging my desktop up to my friend's house, swap NIC's out to see if I can get the DHCP server address by cating some of the network files. Not sure which one I'd go after (Slackware), but I think it registers the DHCP server info somewhere. Is there another alternative to using IPCop and not specify the DHCP server and still get connectivity? I've read most of the current IPCop thread, but didn't see much relating to the problem I'm encountering. Any other ideas someone might have on what to do? -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 23 11:37:47 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 11:19:55AM -0600, Shawn wrote: > I think I posted this question up a while ago, but don't recall an answer. > > I've been trying to get an IPCop firewall setup for a friend of mine > using US Cable (Warpdriveonline) as his internet provider. I'm using > IPCop to do so. I've tried at least 10 times now to get the DHCP server > address information from the ISP, and they won't give it out. They'll > give out DNS server, but no DHCP or gateway info. You don't need the DHCP server address, even if you had it, what would you do with it? > On Friday, someone else I know was getting it (cable modem) installed. > I asked them to get the info from the tech, and they were told "Firewalls > do not require the DHCP, or gateway address. You don't need that information." > I also asked them to inquire about MAC assignments, and they were told > they don't use MAC assignments. Again, you don't need the DHCP server or gateway address. And it is possible they don't use a MAC address based access list. The DOCSIS specification (what cable modems use) has an option to limit the number of MAC addresses that are allowed to pass traffic. After the cable modem sees an address, it will ignore all others until it's rebooted. > All of that is a crock, IMO. They do use MAC assignments. I brought > my laptop up to see if I could get the DHCP info, and it wouldn't allow > my laptop on the network. Even after sitting for quite a while connected. > I was getting a link light, and could even do a crossover to the desktop > and get connectivity between machines, but not with the ISP. See above, did you connect directly to the cable modem, and power cycle it? > > Is there a way to force them to give up the information? I'm down to > the last step of dragging my desktop up to my friend's house, swap NIC's > out to see if I can get the DHCP server address by cating some of the > network files. Not sure which one I'd go after (Slackware), but I think > it registers the DHCP server info somewhere. No, you cannot force them to do anything, nor do you need the information, again, what would you do with the information if it were given to you? > Is there another alternative to using IPCop and not specify the DHCP > server and still get connectivity? I've read most of the current IPCop > thread, but didn't see much relating to the problem I'm encountering. Why does IPCop want the DHCP server? Your email is poorly formatted, please configure your client to linewrap at 70 characters. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 23 12:11:57 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord Message-ID: <3FC0F86D.5010400@visi.com> I'm looking for a power cord for a Compaq Armada 7800, it has an internal power supply. The plug on the back of the laptop looks a lot like this (see below) where it plugs in to the back of the laptop. (o)-(o) (o) Well, sort of looks like that. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Sun Nov 23 12:02:12 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FC0F624.1040303@lorenburlingame.com> Shawn wrote: > I think I posted this question up a while ago, but don't recall an answer. > > I've been trying to get an IPCop firewall setup for a friend of mine using US Cable (Warpdriveonline) as his internet provider. I'm using IPCop to do so. I've tried at least 10 times now to get the DHCP server address information from the ISP, and they won't give it out. They'll give out DNS server, but no DHCP or gateway info. > > On Friday, someone else I know was getting it (cable modem) installed. I asked them to get the info from the tech, and they were told "Firewalls do not require the DHCP, or gateway address. You don't need that information." I also asked them to inquire about MAC assignments, and they were told they don't use MAC assignments. > > All of that is a crock, IMO. They do use MAC assignments. I brought my laptop up to see if I could get the DHCP info, and it wouldn't allow my laptop on the network. Even after sitting for quite a while connected. I was getting a link light, and could even do a crossover to the desktop and get connectivity between machines, but not with the ISP. > > Is there a way to force them to give up the information? I'm down to the last step of dragging my desktop up to my friend's house, swap NIC's out to see if I can get the DHCP server address by cating some of the network files. Not sure which one I'd go after (Slackware), but I think it registers the DHCP server info somewhere. > > Is there another alternative to using IPCop and not specify the DHCP server and still get connectivity? I've read most of the current IPCop thread, but didn't see much relating to the problem I'm encountering. > > Any other ideas someone might have on what to do? > I know that with my ISP (Mediacom) they require that the MAC address of ethernet adapter accessing the service through the "modem" be registered. For mediacom this was a simple process of accessing a special "proxy" server and doing a web registration. While I was not able to register through the gateway, I _was_ able to use the NIC in another computer, register it, then put it in the gateway /firewall system. I am using Smoothwall so the setup for IPCop is probably not too different. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dd-b at dd-b.net Sun Nov 23 12:24:23 2003 From: dd-b at dd-b.net (David Dyer-Bennet) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Testing SMP Kernel In-Reply-To: <028101c3b0bb$a449d1a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031120125023.00000ee2.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <3FBD1061.103@visi.com> <00dd01c3afd3$91d1c570$0201a8c0@brinstar> <028101c3b0bb$a449d1a0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: "David Phillips" writes: > David Dyer-Bennet writes: > > He said a *compressed* tar archive. The compressor/decompressor runs > > in a separate process. Hence that would load both processors (and > > does here, when I do it). > > Ah, you're right, I wasn't thinking about the compressed part. Though it > probably isn't a good test, as tar will normally use less than 1% of the CPU > that gzip does (as tested on my SMP machine with IDE disks). Yeah, I really should run two pair at once, to get max CPU utilization in the backup. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , RKBA: Photos: Snapshots: Dragaera/Steven Brust: _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sun Nov 23 13:39:41 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord In-Reply-To: <3FC0F86D.5010400@visi.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm looking for a power cord for a Compaq Armada 7800, it has an > internal power supply. ebay -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sun Nov 23 13:52:43 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord In-Reply-To: <3FC0F86D.5010400@visi.com>; from smac@visi.com on Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 12:11:57PM -0600 References: <3FC0F86D.5010400@visi.com> Message-ID: <20031123135243.A3558@thinkunix.net> Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm looking for a power cord for a Compaq Armada 7800, it has an > internal power supply. http://www.materialsprocessing.com/surplus.html It's hit or miss but sometimes they have exactly what you're looking for. They do carry some laptop power supplies and they're usually cheap. Take your laptop with you to be sure it works before you buy it. Note the date/hours they're open. I suspect they'll be closed this week for the holiday. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 23 14:00:17 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:37:47 -0600 "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > You don't need the DHCP server address, even if you had it, what > would you do with it? > The IPCop configuration requests the DHCP server address. When I tell it to get information from the ISP with a DHCP configuration, it requests that information. I have not seen it gather that information. > Again, you don't need the DHCP server or gateway address. And it is > possible they don't use a MAC address based access list. The DOCSIS > specification(what cable modems use) has an option to limit the > number of MAC addresses that are allowed to pass traffic. After the > cable modem sees an address, it will ignore all others until it's > rebooted. > I didn't try rebooting the cable modem. I'll have to try it. > See above, did you connect directly to the cable modem, and power > cycle it? > See above. No. > No, you cannot force them to do anything, nor do you need the > information, again, what would you do with the information if it > were given to you? > Again, see my first paragraph. It would only be used to configure IPCop with the DHCP information. I have two people asking me to set up firewalls for them, and without the information, it's so far useless for me to try and configure IPCop. I'd try and build my own firewall, but I neither have the time to do so, nor the knowledge to get it built in a short amount of time. > > Is there another alternative to using IPCop and not specify the > > DHCP server and still get connectivity? I've read most of the > > current IPCop thread, but didn't see much relating to the problem > > I'm encountering. > > Why does IPCop want the DHCP server? > Uhh, to know where to pull the dynamic address from? If you have a better alternative, offer it up instead of asking the same damn question over and over again. > > Your email is poorly formatted, please configure your client to > linewrap at 70 characters. > My e-mail was formatted properly. Most clients I know will accept 72 character wide e-mails. You're e-mail client must be the one messing it up. But, since you bitched so eloquently about it. I changed it to 70. Satisfied? -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Nov 23 14:39:01 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <3FC11AE5.8000200@comcast.net> I guess I'm more familiar with Smoothwall, the "parent" of IPCOP. I see absolutely no reason to need their DHCP server IP address or gateway. With Smoothwall you just tell it to use DHCP on the RED interface and it receives it's IP address from the ISP. With that said, I have done traceroutes out of my LAN to somewhere like Google and picked up some of my ISP's gateways along the way. Another issue that I thought I might run into is the MAC address problem like you did. The ISP has linked the customer's connection to their network to a specific MAC address, which can be a pain if you originally had a software firewall on a PC and now wish to put a hardware firewall in the middle. Well, thank goodness with Linux, there is a way to "spoof" the MAC address. I looked into just such a situation for my Smoothwall, but ended up not needing it with Comcast (was AT&T). I have actually changed the machine (and NICs) that my Smoothwall runs on 3 times over the course of two years and have never had connectivity issues. I have the instructions saved for Smoothwall if anyone needs them, they may apply to IPCOP as it was based offof Smoothwall. Shawn wrote: > I think I posted this question up a while ago, but don't recall an answer. > > I've been trying to get an IPCop firewall setup for a friend of mine using US Cable (Warpdriveonline) as his internet provider. I'm using IPCop to do so. I've tried at least 10 times now to get the DHCP server address information from the ISP, and they won't give it out. They'll give out DNS server, but no DHCP or gateway info. > > On Friday, someone else I know was getting it (cable modem) installed. I asked them to get the info from the tech, and they were told "Firewalls do not require the DHCP, or gateway address. You don't need that information." I also asked them to inquire about MAC assignments, and they were told they don't use MAC assignments. > > All of that is a crock, IMO. They do use MAC assignments. I brought my laptop up to see if I could get the DHCP info, and it wouldn't allow my laptop on the network. Even after sitting for quite a while connected. I was getting a link light, and could even do a crossover to the desktop and get connectivity between machines, but not with the ISP. > > Is there a way to force them to give up the information? I'm down to the last step of dragging my desktop up to my friend's house, swap NIC's out to see if I can get the DHCP server address by cating some of the network files. Not sure which one I'd go after (Slackware), but I think it registers the DHCP server info somewhere. > > Is there another alternative to using IPCop and not specify the DHCP server and still get connectivity? I've read most of the current IPCop thread, but didn't see much relating to the problem I'm encountering. > > Any other ideas someone might have on what to do? > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Sun Nov 23 14:39:05 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031123203905.GA14046@therub.org> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 02:00:17PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:37:47 -0600 > "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > > > You don't need the DHCP server address, even if you had it, what > > would you do with it? > > > The IPCop configuration requests the DHCP server address. When I tell it to get information from the ISP with a DHCP configuration, it requests that information. I have not seen it gather that information. Are you sure that it's not talking about the internal DHCP information? I did an IPCOP install a month ago, and I recall it asking for DHCP information - but for the internal addresses. i.e. if you want your firewall to be your local DHCP server, what address do you want it to use? What addresses do you want it to give out? I prefer to set my firewall to 10.0.0.1 and have it give out starting at 10.0.0.10. If you let it get information from the ISP, what you are doing is trying to get multiple IPs from your ISP - which isn't allowed unless you bought a subnet. You have to use your firewall as a NAT device in order to allow multiple computers to use the one IP that your ISP allows. Something to try to make sure your ISP isn't horky is to just borrow one of those linksys/dlink router/switch deals and hooking it up to see if it'll work. If it does, then the ISP isn't the problem. You could also try some other linux firewall distros (smoothwall or something), just to see if you can get it running. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sun Nov 23 15:09:09 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Comcast Message-ID: <20031123210909.GA27518@refried.org> I liked Sam's idea of doing ISP reviews for the local ISPs. At least will be able to find this information in the list archives. I used Comcast from June 2001 until August 2003. When I started they were MediaOne, then AT&T Broadband for a while. They are a cable ISP. Overall I would rank them as acceptable. Their service used dhcp to get an address and you needed to provision your modem with them. It was pretty easy to set up and fairly reliable. They don't offer a static IP or let you run services, but their IPs were static enough for hobby servers. As a Linux user, don't expect to get any tech support out of them. There were some techs that would provide some support, but didn't know enough to really be helpful. Other techs would raise a red flag and flat out deny you support. There are three things that I would like to note about my time with Comcast. 1. The Code Red outbreak Things were so bad that they blocked port 80 for several months. 2. Their Acceptable Use Policy MediaOne had a great AUP that would allow you to run services as long as you didn't interfere with anyone else. After they got bought a few times it was unclear what their AUP really was. During the Code Red outbreak they would point to an unlinked page on their web site that said services were not allowed. 3. Network topology change One day they decided to change their network topology such that DHCP requests were getting answered from Denver, CO. That's more than the 16 hops that dhclient supports. I had to patch my OpenBSD firewall to support that, which became an upgrade headache. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sun Nov 23 15:07:39 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card In-Reply-To: <20031123165300.GG21392@techmonkeys.org> References: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> <20031123165300.GG21392@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3680.192.1.1.23.1069621659.squirrel@dccmn.com> Thanks for the response. Like I said, the Hauppauge 250 is no longer listed at newegg, and all the others I checked. I'm suspecting that it's out of production. The 350 is not stocked, and the additional $40 is not worth the FM functions. I did quite a bit of googling on the WinTV-D and didn't see anything about any loss of functionallity, or much else. Can you be more specific please? Matthew S. Hallacy said: > On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 05:49:38PM -0600, Wayne Johnson wrote: >> Anyone use a Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card with their Linux? >> It seems that newegg isn't listing the WinTV 250 anymore. > > This card doesn't have much functionality under Linux, you would have a > lot more luck with the WinTV PVR 250 or 350, either from newegg or > elsewhere. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH > Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key > 0x01938203 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sun Nov 23 15:17:36 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Charter Cable Message-ID: <20031123211736.GA30554@refried.org> I only used Charter for about a week during September 2003. They are a cable ISP in the Apply Valley - Lakeville area. I would rank them overall as good, with conditions. I dropped them quickly because I run my own mail server and they block SMTP and HTTP traffic from entering their residential network. It just wasn't a good fit for me, it may be for you. They offer different levels of service, differing mostly by their bandwidth caps. That was one thing that attracted me to them. If you don't really need that 1.5Mb pipe you can step back to 768k or 256k. I had some trouble with my cable modem. I own a Motorola Surfboard 4100 which worked fine on Comcast. It would drop off constantly on Charter. I was able to borrow a modem from them to test with and found out it was my cable modem. I think their tech support was good and they weren't scared of Linux. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sun Nov 23 15:29:57 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - VISI Message-ID: <20031123212957.GB30554@refried.org> I have used VISI since September 2003. They are my ISP for Frontier DSL. Overall I would rank them as excellent. I was a little confused setting stuff up after coming from a cable ISP. I'm used to the cable modem being a bridge and my firewall getting the outside IP. With DSL the router gets the outside IP, so I have two layers of private networks. The connection has been pretty reliable. I have had to reboot the router a few times in the last two months. I suppose that's not great, but I hear it's better than Qwest. They provide all the services of the small town ISPs from when BBSes were the main thing. They have a shell server, webmail and even spam filtering. I'm very happy with their offerings and plan to stay with them. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sun Nov 23 16:12:46 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Pixius Message-ID: <20031123221246.GA23585@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> My current ISP is Pixius (pixius.com), formerly Infinitivity, formerly mninter.net. At some point in their history, they were also known as citilink.com. Despite the change of names and ownership over the years, they have provided me very good service (I am a DSL customer), and are Linux knowledgeable. (Not that they actively support Linux, but they have heard of it. They allow me to run my own mail server and web services, and I provide hosting for my daughters' hobby web sites as well as for a neighbor. Over the last few years, I've had to call them a couple of times and they've been helpful and available. All in all, I'd give them a solid 8 out of 10. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sun Nov 23 16:11:44 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord In-Reply-To: <20031123135243.A3558@thinkunix.net> References: <3FC0F86D.5010400@visi.com> <20031123135243.A3558@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <3FC130A0.1090008@eworld3.net> Hit or miss? Try Axeman's Scot Jenkins wrote: > Sam MacDonald wrote: > >>I'm looking for a power cord for a Compaq Armada 7800, it has an >>internal power supply. > > > http://www.materialsprocessing.com/surplus.html > > It's hit or miss but sometimes they have exactly what you're looking > for. They do carry some laptop power supplies and they're usually > cheap. Take your laptop with you to be sure it works before you buy it. > Note the date/hours they're open. I suspect they'll be closed this week > for the holiday. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sun Nov 23 16:34:52 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to format tape Message-ID: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> I am a bit green with tape devices in linux, and have looked for a half hour on how to format my 40/80 gig tape. I find lots of stuff on ftape, but nothing yet to just format my tape. The drive is located at /dev/st0 Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sun Nov 23 17:04:21 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to format tape In-Reply-To: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031123230421.GA24596@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 04:34:52PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am a bit green with tape devices in linux, and have looked for a half hour > on how to format my 40/80 gig tape. I find lots of stuff on ftape, but > nothing yet to just format my tape. > > The drive is located at /dev/st0 > > > Raymond > Depends on what you are using for backup software. Most programs used under Linux do not require that the tape be formatted in any way. Have you tried just writing to the tape? (eg, tar cvf /dev/st0 /files/*). Also, it's not a bad idea to create a symbolic link in /dev for the tape (cd dev; ln -snf nst0 tape). I like using the nst0 device, rather than the st0 one, because it won't auto rewind after writing. Just be sure that when you are done writing to the tape you issue a rewind command. (mt rewind or mt rewoffl) -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Sun Nov 23 17:25:45 2003 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord In-Reply-To: <3FC0F86D.5010400@visi.com> Message-ID: Possibly stocked by Radio Shack. They have a good range of choices of replacement cords. I think you are looking for exactly what I bought at RS a month or so ago. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Sam MacDonald > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:12 PM > To: TC LUG > Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord > > > I'm looking for a power cord for a Compaq Armada 7800, it has an > internal power supply. > > The plug on the back of the laptop looks a lot like this (see below) > where it plugs in to the back of the laptop. > > > (o)-(o) > (o) > > Well, sort of looks like that. > > > Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Sun Nov 23 17:17:15 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Black-Hole Internet Message-ID: Back in '99 i needed dialup service and while looking throught the yellowpages the name caught my attention. For a dial-up ISP there is not much to say, though the AUP mentions that parking was not allowed i was on 20 out of every 24 hours... nobody said anything. It cost as much as any other ISP at the time (around 20 a month or so) I do not recall any outages or problems in the year or so that i was with them after that the building i was living in at the time got a DSL connection. Linux support you ask? i never had to call them, so i cannot say They have been renamed BHI recently and the website is now full of market-speak, a pity really. Its a dialup service... how can you rate that? it either works or it does not, mine worked :) If i had to do it all over again, would i use them again? Yes. -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 23 18:07:37 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card In-Reply-To: <3680.192.1.1.23.1069621659.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> <20031123165300.GG21392@techmonkeys.org> <3680.192.1.1.23.1069621659.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <20031124000737.GJ21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 03:07:39PM -0600, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Thanks for the response. > > Like I said, the Hauppauge 250 is no longer listed at newegg, and all the > others I checked. I'm suspecting that it's out of production. The 350 is > not stocked, and the additional $40 is not worth the FM functions. the 350 has TV output and an onboard MPEG-1/2 decoder, this is supported by MythTV. > > I did quite a bit of googling on the WinTV-D and didn't see anything about > any loss of functionallity, or much else. Can you be more specific > please? The WinTV-D is a digital cable tuner, the only thing I've found for it under linux is a hacked up driver that allows some analog tuning, and viewing via raw frames, instead of MPEG-2 (making the card worthless) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 23 18:22:54 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031124002254.GK21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 02:00:17PM -0600, Shawn wrote: [I am refraining from reformatting your message] > The IPCop configuration requests the DHCP server address. When I tell it to get information from the ISP with a DHCP configuration, it requests that information. I have not seen it gather that information. > The entire concept behind DHCP is that the client can just plug in and get an address, along with netmask, nameserver and gateway configuration information without any prior configuration. (Other information can be sent as well, but it's not commonly used for end-users) When a computer requests an IP address on a network, it sends a broadcast to port 67 (bootps), from a source port of 68 (bootpc): 18:11:47.868728 0.0.0.0.bootpc > 255.255.255.255.bootps: xid:0xbefadd40 file ""[|bootp] [tos 0x10] The DHCP server then sends a response to the clients MAC address, with the configuration information, the packet as a destination address of the IP assigned to the client in some circumstances: 18:11:48.041983 10.168.0.1.bootps > 10.168.0.216.bootpc: xid:0xbefadd40 Y:10.168.0.216 S:10.168.0.1 file ""[|bootp] [tos 0x10] The client is now configured, and will renew the lease after an interval specified by the DHCP server. There is no need to pre-configure the client in any way, other than to tell it to use DHCP. [snip] > Uhh, to know where to pull the dynamic address from? If you have a better alternative, offer it up instead of asking the same damn question over and over again. See above. > > Your email is poorly formatted, please configure your client to > > linewrap at 70 characters. > > > My e-mail was formatted properly. Most clients I know will accept 72 character wide e-mails. You're e-mail client must be the one messing it up. But, since you bitched so eloquently about it. I changed it to 70. Satisfied? > You've changed your display settings, not the composition settings. Review your original message here, as seen by everyone else: http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2003-November/061709.html And my reply, which I reformatted your original text in: http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2003-November/061710.html -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jpschewe at mtu.net Sun Nov 23 18:41:14 2003 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to format tape In-Reply-To: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <16321.21418.25337.628238@workstation.mn.mtu.net> mt -f /dev/st0 erase and wait about 3 hours. That is if you actually want to erase the tape, otherwise just overwrite it, it's MUCH faster. >>>>> "RN" == Raymond Norton writes: RN> I am a bit green with tape devices in linux, and have looked for a half hour RN> on how to format my 40/80 gig tape. I find lots of stuff on ftape, but RN> nothing yet to just format my tape. RN> The drive is located at /dev/st0 RN> Raymond RN> _______________________________________________ RN> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota RN> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org RN> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe | jpschewe@mtu.net GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 23 19:10:57 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to format tape In-Reply-To: <16321.21418.25337.628238@workstation.mn.mtu.net> References: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> <16321.21418.25337.628238@workstation.mn.mtu.net> Message-ID: <3FC15AA1.5040608@visi.com> If your tape drive is giving you messages to format a tape, you may need to us a cleaning tape. What kind of tape drive is it? Jon Schewe wrote: >mt -f /dev/st0 erase and wait about 3 hours. That is if you actually want >to erase the tape, otherwise just overwrite it, it's MUCH faster. > > > >>>>>>"RN" == Raymond Norton writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > RN> I am a bit green with tape devices in linux, and have looked for a half hour > RN> on how to format my 40/80 gig tape. I find lots of stuff on ftape, but > RN> nothing yet to just format my tape. > > RN> The drive is located at /dev/st0 > > > RN> Raymond > > > RN> _______________________________________________ > RN> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > RN> http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > RN> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sun Nov 23 19:05:14 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1069635914.22134.65.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 23 19:00:34 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031124002254.GK21392@techmonkeys.org> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031124002254.GK21392@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20031123190035.305ae89c.sfertch@real-time.com> On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:22:54 -0600 "Matthew S. Hallacy" wrote: > The entire concept behind DHCP is that the client can just plug in > and get an address, along with netmask, nameserver and gateway > configuration information without any prior configuration. (Other > information can be sent as well, but it's not commonly used for > end-users) > > The DHCP server then sends a response to the clients MAC address, > with the configuration information, the packet as a destination > address of the IP assigned to the client in some circumstances: > > There is no need to pre-configure the client in any way, other than > to tell it to use DHCP. > Thanks for the overview, I knew part of the DHCP process but not all of it. I'm by no means strong in the networking aspect. I did some digging on IPCop's website, and here is what I was referring to: -------------------- Next, select the Address settings menu item to configure the way your interface gets its IP address information. This is dependent on your ISP and connection. Static addressing is used when your ISP has supplied you with a permanent IP address. Enter it in the IP address box of the dialog. IPCop will automatically choose a Network mask. You may modify the network mask as needed. DHCP is used when your ISP has indicated you are to use automatic addressing. Some ISP's, require you to provide a hostname to their DHCP server. This probably is not IPCop's hostname. If it's needed, you can probably use the first part of the fully qualified domain name you noted while gathering the network parameters, above. If your connection is via PPPOE, your ISP will supply all necessary information during the initial connection, so you won't have to do anything, after selecting it. If your connection is via PPTP, you will have to supply your RED network IP address and Network mask, just like the static addressing case. This address is almost always 10.0.0.150 with a network mask of 255.255.255.0. You may choose to configure an ORANGE interface. Its configuration is identical to the way you configured your GREEN interface, above. You can even reconfigure your GREEN interface at this time, by selecting it from the interface menu. When you are done, select the Ok button, to return to the Network Configuration Menu. --------------------- Here's the page for further information: http://www.ipcop.org/1.2.0/en/install/html/initial-configuration.html Upon further reading, and checking a link directing here: http://www.ipcop.org/1.2.0/en/install/html/decide-configuration.html#checking-dhcp-hostname It looks like I'm either interpreting it wrong, or you do need to specify an IP address and hostname. But, rather of your client machine? Not the ISP's? > You've changed your display settings, not the composition settings. > I didn't touch the display settings. I changed it in the composition options . Although, I did find that I forgot to click an option. Better? Before I forget, thanks to Loren, Tony and Dan for their help. I am talking about DHCP from the ISP. Not the internal green LAN. If you follow thru on the configuration for the RED interface, there are DHCP options when using a NIC for the RED interface.. See the link I posted above and how it requests information. I realize I'm using v1.2, that's the version of the disc that I had up there. I did burn a v1.3 of IPCop, but when I went to install it, the disc booted then failed to load beyond the initial screen. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sun Nov 23 19:24:17 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <20031122055543.GY21392@techmonkeys.org> References: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> <200311211809.hALI9Pt12079@ecstasy.winternet.com> <1069473136.22134.60.camel@bigtime> <20031122055543.GY21392@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1069637056.22134.81.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Sun Nov 23 19:20:03 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <1069635914.22134.65.camel@bigtime> References: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> <1069635914.22134.65.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <20031123192003.3ffae35e.sfertch@real-time.com> On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 19:05:14 -0600 Callum Lerwick wrote: > I really recommend installing grub/lilo onto your Linux partition > instead of the MBR. If you do that, if windows decides to mess with > the MBR, all you have to do is set your linux partition as the > Active partition again, which can be done with windows FDISK. > Thanks, I'll pass this along. I've always just put it to my MBR as well. Out of curiosity, on a dual boot system, if one reinstalls Windows this will remain intact and not need to be restored like the MBR would? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but looking for verification on it so I have an idea if he asks me the same thing. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bret at mordant.com Sun Nov 23 14:54:44 2003 From: bret at mordant.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <200311231454.44897.bret@mordant.com> On Sunday 23 November 2003 02:00 pm, Shawn wrote: > On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:37:47 -0600 > > > Your email is poorly formatted, please configure your client to > > linewrap at 70 characters. > > My e-mail was formatted properly. Most clients I know will accept 72 > character wide e-mails. You're e-mail client must be the one messing it > up. But, since you bitched so eloquently about it. I changed it to 70. > Satisfied? No, your emails are still not wrapped at any characters. Bret. -- ######----Mordant-----###### # Make it hurt for someone # ######----------------###### http://www.mordant.com https://www.mordantmail.com http://www.mordantforum.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Sun Nov 23 21:55:37 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? (Off Topic - Sort of) In-Reply-To: <3FC0E628.2000804@visi.com> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> <3FC0E628.2000804@visi.com> Message-ID: <200311232155.37964@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> On Sunday 23 November 2003 10:54 am, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Perhaps everyone in the group could do a review of their ISP's, co > locator's, etc.. and put it up on the TCLUG site. This would help people > get a feel for the ISP's and co locator's in the area. I think we should try to keep potential flame-war materials to minimum. What I'd rather see is a list of people's email addresses on the web site with a tag that says "Contact me via personal email if you want to know more about ISP XXXX". -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rbentz at dunwoody.edu Fri Nov 21 16:02:04 2003 From: rbentz at dunwoody.edu (rbentz@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux router/firewall Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD0B6562@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Sun Nov 23 22:16:07 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux router/firewall In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD0B6562@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD0B6562@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <20031124041607.GA18554@therub.org> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 04:02:04PM -0600, rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > > Hello to the list! I am in need of advice about setting up a > router/firewall combination. > > > The problem is I need a simple router to share my cable connection > that is secure. I am looking to setup Linux to do this but I am > really confused on what is the first step. > > What is the experiences with Slack or Debian or maybe Gentoo? I'd > like not to use Red Hat but will if needed... Check out ipcop.org - it's a linux distro designed just for use as a firewall/router. Once installed, it's got a nice web interface for managing stuff - no ipchains knowledge required. Also, please do not send HTML formatted messages to the list, it makes me unhappy. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Nov 23 22:25:33 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Linux router/firewall In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD0B6562@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD0B6562@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <3FC1883D.9030904@comcast.net> Hey Rob, If you have a spare Pentium1 or don't mind paying to obtain one (Computer Surplus Outlet has some last time I checked) then you could go with an "out of the box" router/firewall such as Smoothwall or IPCOP. Both systems act as a DHCP "client" on the NIC that connects to your ISP and as a DHCP "server" on the NIC that connects to your LAN if needed. Don't bother asking which one is better, as you would probably get as many opinions as there are people on the list. Some of us are using Smoothwall, and some of us are using IPCOP. Either one is a good choice for a firewall. The best part is that the firewall designers took most of the hard part out of the set up. Please note that Smoothwall or IPCOP is one of the better solutions out there if you have the spare hardware. A machine dedicated to being ONLY a firewall is the best solution. If you already have a firewall in place, like a Linksys unit, then why not just go with a small 5 or 8 port switch on the inside of that. I really see no reason to have a router on a small home LAN. Just as long as each machine has it's own IP, you should be fine. rbentz@dunwoody.edu wrote: > Hello to the list! I am in need of advice about setting up a > router/firewall combination. > > The problem is I need a simple router to share my cable connection that > is secure. I am looking to setup Linux to do this but I am really > confused on what is the first step. > > What is the experiences with Slack or Debian or maybe Gentoo? I?d like > _not_ to use Red Hat but will if needed? > > I am fairly new to Linux (Windoze defector) with next to zero knowledge > of ipchains and firewall sets. I will settle for the routing component > first and work up to the firewall unless it is setup in the same process. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob Bentz > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Nov 23 22:36:46 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <001a01c3b244$91d17750$0201a8c0@brinstar> How big are the Visi and Onvoy data centers? How much rack space do they each have? -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sun Nov 23 22:56:40 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Redhat says to use Windows? In-Reply-To: <200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <03E4AF4D-1B2C-11D8-9CF7-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> <6ACA4279-1B77-11D8-ACC4-000A9581A7A6@us-admins.com> <3FBCF6DB.8020900@visi.com> <200311210034.53491@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <1069649800.22134.84.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Nov 23 22:56:43 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Comcast In-Reply-To: <20031123210909.GA27518@refried.org> References: <20031123210909.GA27518@refried.org> Message-ID: <200311232256.43369.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 23 November 2003 03:09 pm, nate@refried.org wrote: Some additional comments about Comcast/AT&T Broadband. When I moved back the the Twin Cities from Duluth I was in Plymouth for a year (2000-2001) and AT&T was the local cable monopoly. After about 4 months we were able to get cable modem service and we signed up. The install was done on the Windows side of a dual boot system so the tech could use his setup CD. I told him I was going to move the NIC to my linux firewall when he was done. His reaction was pretty much, "That's cool I know a bunch of guys who are doing that." Late summer 2001 we moved to St Paul. AT&T was still the cable company and cable modem service was available. I simply moved my firewall, cable modem (AT&T supplied 3Com "shark fin" unit) and hooked everything back up. Earlier this year AT&T Broadband became Comcast Cable (as Nate noted) I haven't had any trouble with the service. There was an outage in the middle of the night during the change over process, but had I not had insomnia I'd never have known. Overall opinion: good enough for me Support service rating: Can't say haven't called them -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sun Nov 23 23:03:36 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IPCop and broadband Specifically ISP's not giving out info In-Reply-To: <20031123190035.305ae89c.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031123111955.6a1952f7.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031123173747.GH21392@techmonkeys.org> <20031123140017.1520c4e9.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031124002254.GK21392@techmonkeys.org> <20031123190035.305ae89c.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031124050336.GO21392@techmonkeys.org> On Sun, Nov 23, 2003 at 07:00:34PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > Thanks for the overview, I knew part of the DHCP process but not all > of it. I'm by no means strong in the networking aspect. I did some > digging on IPCop's website, and here is what I was referring to: [snip] > > Some ISP's, require you to provide a hostname to their DHCP server. > This probably is not IPCop's hostname. If it's needed, you can > probably use the first part of the fully qualified domain name you > noted while gathering the network parameters, above. [snip] > It looks like I'm either interpreting it wrong, or you do need to > specify an IP address and hostname. But, rather of your client > machine? Not the ISP's? This is usually known as a client identifier, it's usually not necessary. Some DHCP implementations can use this along with dynamic DNS to make your address resolve as .isp.com If you feel the need to fill in that blank, any alphanumeric string will be sufficient. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Nov 23 23:04:35 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Charter Cable In-Reply-To: <20031123211736.GA30554@refried.org> References: <20031123211736.GA30554@refried.org> Message-ID: <200311232304.35502.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 23 November 2003 03:17 pm, nate@refried.org wrote: NOTE: My experience with Charter is based on about year of service in Duluth When I was in Duluth the local cable company added cable modem service. The company, Bresnon, was eventually bought by Charter Cable. I knew one of the admins there, he was a member of the Duluth LUG, and basically they were left to handle the local calls locally. All in all Charter was a pretty good service. For obvious reasons they weren't phobic about Linux. Although contractor they had doing the PC side of the setup was not Linux savvy and a bit lacking in customer service skills if I remember. The only negative comment I have is related to billing and is not specific to the ISP/Cable modem service. When we left Duluth I turned in the hardware and paid the last bill. When got to Plymouth 2.5 months later I eventually recieved a collection order. It seems something didn't process right or a last bill didn't get forwarded to my temporary residence in Grand Marais. So make sure you have all the paperwork completed when you leave them. Overall opinion: Good service, goo uptime. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 23 23:26:07 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Colocation facilities? In-Reply-To: <001a01c3b244$91d17750$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20031119201907.B26766@thinkunix.net> <001a01c3b244$91d17750$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <200311232326.08234.smac@visi.com> I haven't seen the Visi data center, I think the data center is in ST. Paul and I know the offices are in Minneapolis. Sam On Sunday 23 November 2003 22:36, David Phillips wrote: > How big are the Visi and Onvoy data centers? How much rack space do they > each have? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sun Nov 23 23:45:13 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: <20031123192003.3ffae35e.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <20031122173007.7eaa9950.sfertch@real-time.com> <1069635914.22134.65.camel@bigtime> <20031123192003.3ffae35e.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1069652712.22134.129.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Mon Nov 24 08:20:49 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Power Cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree, I believe I've bought this same compaq power cord at radio shack as well. Matt -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Cole Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 5:26 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Power Cord Possibly stocked by Radio Shack. They have a good range of choices of replacement cords. I think you are looking for exactly what I bought at RS a month or so ago. Chuck _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Mon Nov 24 09:00:56 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Comcast In-Reply-To: <200311232256.43369.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: I suppose I should throw in some comments on this one, too. My mom has been using AT&T and Comcast on and off when my sister has been home from college. Overall, the service is decent. When I'm there, everything seems to be working quite well, and speeds are nice. My mom has complained that sometimes things are slow, but I think that is their main page, since they have webmail provided there and that's mainly what she would use. Never any speed complaints from my sister, and she uses other e-mail. Their tech support is less than desirable as far as I can tell. I spent 2 hours being their tech support while I was out of town because Comcast couldn't figure out what was wrong...but I eventually could. This wouldn't be a problem for an advanced user, though. It ended up being something fairly simple IIRC. The other major problem was with getting them to cancel service. The last time my mom cancelled her service they were still sending her bills (new bills, not something she forgot to pay) 2 months after she cancelled it. This was eventually remedied and she didn't pay any more than she should have, but it was a bit of a hassle. Overall, I think that they would be sufficient for a geek who likes fast speeds and doesn't need to run services locally. I wouldn't recommend them for someone who knows nothing about computers, though, unless you feel like supporting them. ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Mon Nov 24 09:24:00 2003 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:51 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Time Warner Cable Message-ID: I had Time Warner Cable for my ISP for a couple years up until this fall when I moved out of their area. The speeds were very nice! I enjoyed being able to download things at over 200k/sec. The only problem we really had with the service was that we were having to reset our cablemodem at least once a week for a while. This was eventually attributed to a problem with the cable wiring in our apartment building. They screwed up once in fixing things for us, and ended up giving us a free month of cable (TV and internet) to say sorry, so I can't really complain about that. Overall, I'd say they're a great ISP if you don't need a static IP, and tech support/service is reasonable at least. ------------- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Nov 24 11:12:10 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031124111210.05e8ec51.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:24:00 -0600 (CST) Justin Kremer wrote: > Overall, I'd say they're a great ISP if you don't need a static IP, and > tech support/service is reasonable at least. Actually, if you do need a static IP they are pretty good as well. :) I have Time Warner's business class service, the lowest end plan, I think it's 756 MB Up/Down. I run my own quasi-ISP business behind, hosting about 20 small low-traffic sites. Time Warner doesn't mind all this (nor should they since I'm on a business plan). I have 5 static IP's, which cost an extra $10/month. Tech support was pretty good helping me get everything setup. I've only had two network outages, and both happened on the same day, about 3-4 months ago. I guess one of their main routers went down, service was out for about 15 minutes in the evening. Since then it's been excellent. Have NEVER had to cycle my cable modem for any reason other than tripping over a power cord. One other thing to note, some companies block all mail coming from Time Warner's IP block, considering it SPAM. If you are serving SMTP, you need to use Time Warner's smarthost to resolve these issues. Once I get a few more sites, I may upgrade the bandwidth, but for now it seems to be enough for the few low-traffic sites I'm hosting. My final $0.02: I think they're business class service, while being more expensive, is much more reliable than their dynamic IP residential service, though that wasn't too bad either. Excel energy worries me a LOT more than Time Warner. North Minneapolis is notorious for long random power outtages. My UPS doesn't have too much backup time. Oh well... Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Mon Nov 24 12:07:15 2003 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Comcast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FC248D3.9050206@visi.com> I signed up for service from MediaOne in the fall of 2000 and things ran pretty smoothly until June of 2002 when AT&T decide to restructure their provisioning. At that point the connection went out and the modem wouldn't connect. Repeated calls to tech support got the usual response of "shut down the modem, shut down the PC, wait 45 seconds, restart the PC and restart the modem ... doesn't work? Sorry someone will have to call back" and of course no one ever called back. This went on for a week or so, and then they said they'd have to send someone out but that it would be at least 10 days. At that point I canceled. Of course, with AT&T, canceling the service is just the beginning of the nightmare. Getting them to stop billing me and credit my account for the extra charges took a half dozen calls over the next four months. The problem seemed to be that when I returned the cable modem it had never been posted to my account. They could search their database and find that the modem had been returned to their Roseville storefront, but the return had never been linked to my account. Finally a supervisor overrode the whole thing and it was straightened out ... or so I thought. A couple of weeks ago I signed up for Comcast broadband through the deal we have here at the U. A confused sales guy called me back to see if I wanted to switch my current broadband service over to the U plan. While the AT&T supervisor had cleared up the billing on my account, he hadn't dealt with the modem issue and so as far as Comcast was concerned I still had service even though I hadn't been billed for 18 months. He also said that they wouldn't be able to activate a new modem on the account until the old modem came off, but said he would pass it on to the techs. The installer came out and the modem was provisioned without a problem so I'm hoping that the 'techs' cleared it up, although I wouldn't be all that surprised to get a bill that included billing for 18-months of service and the missing modem - only time will tell. Once the guy left I cloned the IP address of the desktop into my SMC access point and everything has worked fine since then. The performance is quite a bit better than what I get here at the U so hopefully things will work out. I haven't put up any servers yet, but I will probably punch a hole for a ssh server in the near future so I can rsync my linux boxes between work and home. --rick Justin Kremer wrote: >I suppose I should throw in some comments on this one, too. >My mom has been using AT&T and Comcast on and off when my sister has been >home from college. Overall, the service is decent. When I'm there, >everything seems to be working quite well, and speeds are nice. >My mom has complained that sometimes things are slow, but I think that is >their main page, since they have webmail provided there and that's mainly >what she would use. Never any speed complaints from my sister, and she >uses other e-mail. >Their tech support is less than desirable as far as I can tell. I spent 2 >hours being their tech support while I was out of town because Comcast >couldn't figure out what was wrong...but I eventually could. This >wouldn't be a problem for an advanced user, though. It ended up being >something fairly simple IIRC. >The other major problem was with getting them to cancel service. The last >time my mom cancelled her service they were still sending her bills (new >bills, not something she forgot to pay) 2 months after she cancelled it. >This was eventually remedied and she didn't pay any more than she should >have, but it was a bit of a hassle. >Overall, I think that they would be sufficient for a geek who likes fast >speeds and doesn't need to run services locally. I wouldn't recommend >them for someone who knows nothing about computers, though, unless you >feel like supporting them. > >------------- >Justin Kremer > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Nov 24 13:17:28 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Hauppauge WinTV-D video capture card In-Reply-To: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> References: <1709.192.1.1.23.1069544978.squirrel@dccmn.com> Message-ID: <1069701448.11582.43.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Mon Nov 24 13:26:09 2003 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] need to format tape In-Reply-To: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <03de01c3b212$034ae020$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <1069701969.11582.53.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pclinux at charter.net Mon Nov 24 13:29:50 2003 From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Damaged boot loader (RH9 w/GRUB) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031124132331.01cd4008@pop.charter.net> You may be referring to Smart Boot Manager... http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/index.php3?body=about.html It worked quite well to boot from the CDROM on an old 486 of mine. It can be installed in the MBR or a floppy, similar, with more options than the previously mentioned GAG. At 09:10 AM 11/24/2003, you wrote: >What windows will do when it installs is wipe out the MBR with its >loader, then set its partition as the active one. If you're using the >windows MBR anyway, this doesn't change anything. You can then just set >your linux partiton as active to get grub back, which can be done with >the windows FDISK. > >There's an open source MBR out there, Debian comes with it. It can bring >up a menu to pick any partition to boot, rather than having to boot an >OS to change the active partition, and can even boot a floppy. Dunno >where you get it separate from debian. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Mon Nov 24 13:51:17 2003 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - Speakeasy Message-ID: <3FC26135.4070204@cdf123.com> I'd like to throw out this one, normally I wouldn't, but they've been a great company with excellent service. I first signed up with them 11-2002. They were the only company I could find with a dsl service (iDSL) that would reach me. The install wasn't the greatest, but that was mostly due to them using the local phone company (Qwest) to do most of the install. Words cannot describe how bad Qwest screwed up. They were constantly late in reporting back to Speakeasy, they hooked up the loopback box to the ceiling with tape (it fell down on my wifes head that same night), they were a total nightmare. Speakeasy made up for it though, they chewed Qwest out and had another tech out the very next day. Service wise, they were excellent. If they were doing work on their hardware that would affect the service in my area, they would send an email with the date, time, and estimated length of the outage two days ahead to let you know. I've never even even heard of an ISP doing that before. I mentioned that I was going to connect with Mandrake Linux to their service, and they said it was ok, and even offered support for setting up the static ip, kmail, evolution, and my browsers for accessing the web. They allowed services through, though they blocked POP and SMTP. Their rates seemed a little high, but most iDSLs are. If I was in range, they offer a 1.5/256 for $50, and others up to a 3.0/768 for $140. Each level of dsl service comes in 3 packages, the Classic pack for people who just want it to work, the Gamers pack has fewer hops to major gaming servers and priority routing, and a Sysadmin package that has a RPMFind mirror, and shell account. My iDSL was set with the Sysadmin pack. They are also coming out with a service that allows you to resell your connection to your neighbors with WiFi, and they will handle the billing for you. Overall, their service is great. Due to the high cost of the iDSL, I'm canceling and moving to Comcast cable. If anything ever changes so that they offer a comparable service to my area again, I would switch in a heartbeat. I wouldn't recommend them for the average Joe, but they are a great fit for the net-savvy Linux user, or someone looking to do some webhosting/connection sharing with some friends. Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Mon Nov 24 14:43:14 2003 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Real-Time Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <20031124204314.GA6153@mail.el-swifto.com> I've had DSL via Real-Time since the summer of 2001. Real-Time has been pretty "transparent"; their services have just worked. Too bad I can't say the same for Qwest! Qwest has been a major pain since I moved in 2002, not just for data but voice as well. I had to call them on average of once a month during the summer; things seem to improve during the winter. I have given up on getting anything resembling decent customer service from Qwest. If there are any DSL alternatives in S Mpls I'm all ears. I haven't done any price comparisons lately, so I'm not sure where they rank in that regard, but I have no complaints regarding customer service or uptime. RT has been pretty helpful to me; I'm pretty sure I owe the RT crew some $LIQUID_REFRESHMENT for answering some of my dumber questions. JT -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Nov 24 15:46:15 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting speaker Message-ID: <20031124214615.GR14447@fandre.com> So it's about that time again to start thinking about a meeting topic. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone want to volunteer to present something? -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Nov 24 16:35:13 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting speaker Message-ID: Things I'd like to hear about: 1) Clustering creation and management software. 2) User Mode Linux. 3) Creating RPM, Debian, and Slack packages from source, and tips on making source "packagable". 4) Game and Educational programming for kids. Can anybody speak about any of these things with authority? >>> Clay Fandre 11/24/03 03:46PM >>> So it's about that time again to start thinking about a meeting topic. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone want to volunteer to present something? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dsherman at real-time.com Mon Nov 24 20:01:19 2003 From: dsherman at real-time.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Real-Time Enterprises, Inc. In-Reply-To: <20031124204314.GA6153@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <20031124204314.GA6153@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <3FC2B7EF.8030907@real-time.com> John J. Trammell wrote: > I've had DSL via Real-Time since the summer of 2001. Real-Time has been > pretty "transparent"; their services have just worked. Too bad I can't > say the same for Qwest! > > Qwest has been a major pain since I moved in 2002, not just for data but > voice as well. I had to call them on average of once a month during the > summer; things seem to improve during the winter. I have given up on > getting anything resembling decent customer service from Qwest. If > there are any DSL alternatives in S Mpls I'm all ears. > > I haven't done any price comparisons lately, so I'm not sure where they > rank in that regard, but I have no complaints regarding customer service > or uptime. RT has been pretty helpful to me; I'm pretty sure I owe the > RT crew some $LIQUID_REFRESHMENT for answering some of my dumber > questions. I must agree. I've had Real-Time DSL for over two years, and service/uptimes have been excellent. Planned service outages are always announced ahead of time, and they are kept brief, so no ugly surprises there. I think they charge a bit more than some other ISPs, but the service has been well worth it. -- Dave Sherman - MCSE, MCSA, CCNA Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at mn-linux.org Mon Nov 24 21:31:59 2003 From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? Message-ID: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Been running courier-imap for about 2 years now. No complaints, but I thought I'd ask for comments on IMAP servers out there today. Basic requirements. Maildir support (natively) imap-ssl/pop-ssl LDAP support (either natively or via pam) Not requirement but nice Offline imap support Stats program RPM package Comments? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Nov 24 21:42:35 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <20031124214235.7f07ec7a.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:31:59 -0600 Bob Tanner wrote: > Been running courier-imap for about 2 years now. No complaints, but I thought > I'd ask for comments on IMAP servers out there today. > > Basic requirements. > > Maildir support (natively) > imap-ssl/pop-ssl > LDAP support (either natively or via pam) I hear a lot of good things on the qmail list about Binc IMAP. It supports Maildirs only I think. It seems to support your minimum reqts. http://www.bincimap.com/ I haven't used it, been using Courier as well for 2 years. Kind of a pain to upgrade, but otherwise pretty happy with it. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Mon Nov 24 21:58:18 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Real-Time Enterprises, Inc. In-Reply-To: <3FC2B7EF.8030907@real-time.com> References: <20031124204314.GA6153@mail.el-swifto.com> <3FC2B7EF.8030907@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031124215818.5b2952a8.sfertch@real-time.com> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 20:01:19 -0600 Dave Sherman wrote: > I must agree. I've had Real-Time DSL for over two years, and > service/uptimes have been excellent. Planned service outages are > always announced ahead of time, and they are kept brief, so no ugly > surprises there. I think they charge a bit more than some other > ISPs, but the service has been well worth it. > Same here, I agree. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewbaka at toughguy.net Mon Nov 24 22:19:46 2003 From: chewbaka at toughguy.net (B_o_B) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: <20031124111210.05e8ec51.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031124111210.05e8ec51.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <15884723736.20031124221946@toughguy.net> Monday, November 24, 2003 @ 10:16:00 PM Central Standard Time JT> I have Time Warner's business class service, the lowest end plan, I think it's 756 MB Up/Down. I run my own quasi-ISP business behind, hosting about 20 small low-traffic sites. Time Warner JT> doesn't mind all this (nor should they since I'm on a business plan). I have 5 static IP's, which cost an extra $10/month. Hi. I was wondering what the monthly cost for this service is? I set-up an office in Burnsville recently & went with a T1 due to lack of anything else available in that area. Just curious. Thanks, Robert (aka B_o_B) David Felix De Mars West Longitude 90' 15' 43" http://b-o-b.homelinux.com mailto:chewbaka@toughguy.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Nov 24 22:58:02 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review: Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: <15884723736.20031124221946@toughguy.net> References: <20031124111210.05e8ec51.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <15884723736.20031124221946@toughguy.net> Message-ID: <20031124225802.0fe880f5.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:19:46 -0600 B_o_B wrote: > Monday, November 24, 2003 @ 10:16:00 PM Central Standard Time > > JT> I have Time Warner's business class service, the lowest end plan, I think it's 756 MB Up/Down. I run my own quasi-ISP business behind, hosting about 20 small low-traffic sites. Time Warner > JT> doesn't mind all this (nor should they since I'm on a business plan). I have 5 static IP's, which cost an extra $10/month. > > Hi. I was wondering what the monthly cost for this service is? I > set-up an office in Burnsville recently & went with a T1 due to lack > of anything else available in that area. It's a little spendy. $99.95 for the 768/768 up/down and $20.00 for 5 statics (I thought it was $10 :|), so $120 per month. But it's pretty solid. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Nov 25 00:27:13 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311250627.hAP6RDB32460@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Laptop Compaq 905US 9 mo. old, CD-R/DVD/ROM doesn't work, still under warrenty till next month, Athon XP 1400, 256 MB expandable to 1024 MB. 14.1 display. 30 Gig HD. Linksys wireless card included. Good condition. Running Debian right now. Compaq quickrestore of XP Home included :). Still have original box and all software. $550/obo. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Tue Nov 25 06:07:48 2003 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting speaker (creating packages) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1069762068.27832.748.camel@tankgrrl> I couldn't give a speech on it but I've been playing with a tool for creating packages called checkinstall. Just run it instead of make install and it asks you a series of questions and creates a package for you. http://asic-linux.com.mx/~izto/checkinstall/ Brady On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 16:35, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Things I'd like to hear about: > > 3) Creating RPM, Debian, and Slack packages from > source, and tips on making source "packagable". > Can anybody speak about any of these things with > authority? > > >>> Clay Fandre 11/24/03 03:46PM >>> > So it's about that time again to start thinking about a meeting > topic. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone want to volunteer to > present something? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ckhanson at real-time.com Tue Nov 25 08:46:50 2003 From: ckhanson at real-time.com (ckhanson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: ISP Review: Real-Time is top shelf Message-ID: <001e01c3b362$f5d41630$640a0a0a@99bwq11> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Nov 25 10:09:52 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311251609.hAPG9qv06388@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Panasonic KX-P1092 This dot-matrix printer is available for free. Maybe an old application that uses multi-part forms? This printer is in "good shape" and has been stuck in a box for years. Contact me if interested. First come, first serve. You'll be either driving to Roseville or Plymouth to pick it up. *8^) http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Tue Nov 25 10:26:14 2003 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - skypoint Message-ID: <3FC382A6.9050306@structural-wood.com> I've used skypoint both personally and professionally - they are a great provider and are very good to work with. They are extremely comfortable with BSD and Linux. Whenever there is even the potential for a 'burp' in the system, they post a well written and sometimes entertaining e-mail to their users. I think I've been using skypoint since the early 90's (back when I was an SCO and windows user). I also use RoadRunner and Comcast, both of whom provide limited but good connectivity. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Nov 25 11:05:07 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse Message-ID: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I haven't spent much time with Suse, but does anyone really know the differences between Suse 9 Personal, Suse 9 Professional and Suse Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) 8. I don't care much about the GUI interface, this will be on a server where most of the maintenance is done via the command line. I'm looking if there is any advantages / disadvantages for each version when running web, mail, dns, database types of services. I've looked on Google but I haven't seen much in the way of compairing the products. I need an insiders point of view. Thanks -- Jim Streit Partner & Co-Founder NorthLANs Alliance, LLC JimStreit@northlans.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Nov 25 11:20:12 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20031125112012.61edbc99.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:05:07 -0600 (CST) "Jim Streit" wrote: > I haven't spent much time with Suse, but does anyone really know the > differences between Suse 9 Personal, Suse 9 Professional and Suse Linux > Enterprise Server (SLES) 8. I don't care much about the GUI interface, > this will be on a server where most of the maintenance is done via the > command line. I'm looking if there is any advantages / disadvantages for > each version when running web, mail, dns, database types of services. I don't think SuSE Personal vs Professional is TOO much different. Unless they changed it in version 9.0, the Professional comes with a few more packages and a DVD as well as 7 or 8 CD's. And it comes with more documentation. I usually get the Professional version. I don't have any experience with SLES, but it's their server version obviously. I think if you are running your own server you can get away with using Personal or Professional. Yast is a pain, even worse is YOU (Yast Online Update), but there are command line versions. I typically do not install RPMs for thinks like web/dns/mail/db servers, I like to have full control over these, so I build from source. I use SuSE's RPMs for development tools/libs etc. I've been a SuSE user for a couple years now, they were the first distro to recognize all my hardware on my bizarre Gateway. Lately though I've been moving towards Debian for server type stuff. Also, if you are thinking of running Oracle, SLES is the certified version, though it'll work on Personal/Professional SuSE as well. HTH, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Nov 25 12:56:51 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: <20031125112012.61edbc99.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <20031125112012.61edbc99.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <2299.65.116.187.220.1069786611.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Thanks for the feedback. What's on the DVD? > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:05:07 -0600 (CST) > "Jim Streit" wrote: > >> I haven't spent much time with Suse, but does anyone really know the >> differences between Suse 9 Personal, Suse 9 Professional and Suse >> Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) 8. I don't care much about the GUI >> interface, this will be on a server where most of the maintenance is >> done via the command line. I'm looking if there is any advantages / >> disadvantages for each version when running web, mail, dns, database >> types of services. > > I don't think SuSE Personal vs Professional is TOO much different. > Unless they changed it in version 9.0, the Professional comes with a few > more packages and a DVD as well as 7 or 8 CD's. And it comes with more > documentation. I usually get the Professional version. I don't have > any experience with SLES, but it's their server version obviously. I > think if you are running your own server you can get away with using > Personal or Professional. > > Yast is a pain, even worse is YOU (Yast Online Update), but there are > command line versions. I typically do not install RPMs for thinks like > web/dns/mail/db servers, I like to have full control over these, so I > build from source. I use SuSE's RPMs for development tools/libs etc. > > I've been a SuSE user for a couple years now, they were the first distro > to recognize all my hardware on my bizarre Gateway. Lately though I've > been moving towards Debian for server type stuff. Also, if you are > thinking of running Oracle, SLES is the certified version, though it'll > work on Personal/Professional SuSE as well. > > HTH, > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Nov 25 13:15:01 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: <2299.65.116.187.220.1069786611.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <20031125112012.61edbc99.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <2299.65.116.187.220.1069786611.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20031125131501.0733f6da.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:56:51 -0600 (CST) "Jim Streit" wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. What's on the DVD? Everything you get on the 7-8 CD's, just nicely stored all on one disk. That way you don't have to swap disks as much while you are installing, which depending on your setup can be a big deal. I don't think there is anything special about it otherwise. Again, my experience is for SuSE 8.x, not sure about 9.0. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Nov 25 14:47:31 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From AIRPLANEIT at aol.com Tue Nov 25 15:40:20 2003 From: AIRPLANEIT at aol.com (AIRPLANEIT@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices Message-ID: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> Hey guys, How do I find out where in /dev directory my palm pilot is connecting? It seems every distribution assigns it to a different ttyUSB*, and now I'm using Yellowdog, where there are 30 different possibilities. -Nick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Tue Nov 25 16:20:54 2003 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <3FC3D5C6.3090106@lorenburlingame.com> Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 21:31, Bob Tanner wrote: > >>Been running courier-imap for about 2 years now. No complaints, but I thought >>I'd ask for comments on IMAP servers out there today. >> >>Comments? > > > Whats wrong with courier? > > Well, after realizing what an inflexible ugly hack uw-imap is, I went > looking for something else. I tried cyrus, but its total lack of current > documentation made me completely unable to make it work. To make > accounts you apparently have to log IN first, but there was no > documentation on how you get IN in the first place. Bootstrap account? I > couldn't find one documented. I finally got frustrated enough, said F*CK > THIS NOISE and tried courier. It dropped right in and worked without a > problem. I added: sasl_pwcheck_method: saslauthd to my imapd.conf file and was able to log in to cyrus as root. This calls saslauthd when there is a log in attempt which is a suid program that reads /etc/shadow. LB _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Nov 25 16:26:13 2003 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Selectadock III Message-ID: Please forward to all your ThinkPad toting friends. If anyone has use for an IBM Selectadock III (model 3547-003) ThinkPad docking station, I have one I'm giving away. Come by and pick up (in St. Paul, MN) or pay for shipping. If you know of a charitable organization I should consider, please let me know about that. Still works perfectly. You'll need a base or SelectaBase for your machine (under $10 on eBay), but this works with the following ThinkPad computers: - ThinkPad 600: All - ThinkPad 760: E/ED/EL/ELD/XL/XD only - ThinkPad 765: All - ThinkPad 770: All Features: - one PCI and two PCI/ISA slots - two PCMCIA slots (CardBus if your machine has them) - MIDI/joystick connector (disables the one in your base if present) - IDE and SCSI-3 controllers and external SCSI connector - stereo speakers (with volume knob, line in and out, headphone jack) - External 5.25" bay - UltraBay - Two USB ports - Fully lockable and securable - Built-in power supply Barely used. Original box, all parts and manuals included. Let me know if you're interested in taking this off my hands. Chris Schumann, Partner Third Wave Partnership, LLC Office 612-920-4364 722 W 66 St, PMB 302 Fax 612-677-3003 Minneapolis, MN 55423 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Tue Nov 25 17:41:08 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (jack@jacku.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> References: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <2312.206.9.230.2.1069803668.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> > I haven't spent much time with Suse, but does anyone really know the > differences between Suse 9 Personal, Suse 9 Professional and Suse Linux > Enterprise Server (SLES) 8. I don't care much about the GUI interface, > this will be on a server where most of the maintenance is done via the > command line. I'm looking if there is any advantages / disadvantages for > each version when running web, mail, dns, database types of services. Jim, Josh's assessment is right on (with the exception of the slap at YaST ;-) but here's a little more of the differences as I understand them. I've been a SuSE user since 6.2 which is about 3.5 years. Basically SuSE Professional includes most of the server and development tools you'd want on the CD-ROMs. The Personal version will include all the multimedia software and "end-user" software, but only some of the server software you might want. One of the main differences between the standard SuSE Linux products and the SLES product is the time frame for upgrades. SuSE Linux is upgraded twice a year (2nd and 4th Quarters usually) while the Enterprise server is upgraded at most once a year. Updates and patches are released as needed but the version is not rolled more than once a year. This allows them to maintain certs for things like Oracle, Lotus Notes, and other big packages that need to be tested. Basically they promise the Enterprise customer that what they invest in today will be the version that gets SuSE's attention for at least the next 12 months. There's a product roadmap on the www.suse.com site that explains some of this. FWIW I like SuSE that's why I've stayed with it. Unlike Josh I happen to like YaST as a tool. It may be that after enough time I'm just used to it. The other thing that Josh mentioned that I'll second is hardware recognition. I purchased and AverMedia TV tuner card and YaST picked it up and configured it with out any hassle. So unless you need the stability of the Enterprise package (or the support contracts available for it) the Pro package should do what you need. ---- Jack Ungerleider - local SuSE bigot jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Nov 25 19:37:34 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> Message-ID: <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:40:20 -0500 AIRPLANEIT@aol.com wrote: > > How do I find out where in /dev directory my palm pilot is > connecting? It seems every distribution assigns it to a different > ttyUSB*, and now I'm using Yellowdog, where there are 30 different > possibilities. > I'm not sure... What does it show when you do a long listing of the/dev directory? You might be able to see a link pointing to something. Personally, this is one of my pet peeves of Linux. Why does it put all possible device names in therre when in actuality, only a handful are used at one time? If I've got two harddrives in the system, I only want to see the /dev/hda and /dev/hdb or /dev/sda and /dev/sdb devices listed in the /dev/directory. I shouldn't have to dig around and hope I've got the right device... -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Tue Nov 25 20:00:05 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031126020005.GA20583@refried.org> On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 07:37:34PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > Personally, this is one of my pet peeves of Linux. Why does it put > all possible device names in therre when in actuality, only a handful > are used at one time? That's what the goal of devfs was. Unfortunately it was poorly coded and didn't really help you find your devices. Hopefully the next generation of distros based on the 2.6 kernel and udev will get it right. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Tue Nov 25 20:07:29 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031126020729.GA940@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mattj at invisik.com Tue Nov 25 20:38:22 2003 From: mattj at invisik.com (Matt Jurcich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, Just my 2 cents as well, Suse Pro 9.0 is a pretty great thing. Yast2 is a very easy way to manage your installed software and YOU keeps you up to date. I can understand the desire to compile all your software from source, but I trust SUSE corporate enough to install their updates off the internet. It's quite easy to schedule to do itself, or to have a unexperienced user do it. I feel it's a bit easier then RedHat's update network. Konqueror (I use Moz mostly anyway) knows when you're downloading a RPM and it gives you a one click installation of the program through Yast2. Just like Irix and it's tardist files. Anyway, see you around the list.... -m -- inv][sik corporation matt jurcich, networkologist _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at real-time.com Tue Nov 25 20:52:28 2003 From: sfertch at real-time.com (Shawn) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <20031126020729.GA940@iucha.net> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031126020729.GA940@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20031125205228.5c08f82e.sfertch@real-time.com> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:07:29 -0600 florin@iucha.net (Florin Iucha) wrote: > > Personally, this is one of my pet peeves of Linux. Why does it > > put > ^^^^^ > UNIX > > all possible device names in therre when in actuality, only a > > handful are used at one time? > > Because that's how the dinosaurs were configured and herders were > competent back then. > > > If I've got two harddrives in the system, I > > only want to see the /dev/hda and /dev/hdb or /dev/sda and > > /dev/sdb devices listed in the /dev/directory. I shouldn't have > > to dig around and hope I've got the right device... > > Use devfs or wait for 2.6+/udev. > I am using devfs and it still shows unused/unnecessary devices in /dev. About your dinosaurs and herders statement, even the big commercial UNIXES grew up and only put in devices that are currently allocated to the system. It's not a matter of incompetency so much as it is why put so many unnecessary files onto a system? It's a waste of resources. -- Shawn "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear -- not absence of fear." -Mark Twain Ne Obliviscaris -- "Forget Not" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Tue Nov 25 21:26:51 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> Message-ID: <3FC41D7B.1040105@eworld3.net> I use Mandrake and Handspring Visor and when things are working ok it connects under /dev/usb automatically when I press the sync button. The link from /dev/pilot to the real device file gets created at the same time. My understanding is that, no matter what the distro does, it should always create the link from /dev/pilot to the real file. AIRPLANEIT@aol.com wrote: > Hey guys, > How do I find out where in /dev directory my palm pilot is connecting? It seems every distribution assigns it to a different ttyUSB*, and now I'm using Yellowdog, where there are 30 different possibilities. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jerry.sommerdorf at gwslinux.com Tue Nov 25 22:02:27 2003 From: jerry.sommerdorf at gwslinux.com (jerry.sommerdorf@gwslinux.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Nov 25 23:01:54 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <018d01c3b3da$696401b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Callum Lerwick writes: > Whats wrong with courier? Courier violates the Maildir specification and can corrupt certain messages: http://www.ornl.gov/lists/mailing-lists/qmail/2003/02/msg00835.html This isn't a problem if your messages arrive ONLY via SMTP, but could be a problem for other delivery methods including local injection (i.e. the sendmail wrapper). I still use Courier because I don't want to risk breaking a production system (all my messages arrive via SMTP), but if I was setting up a new system, I would use Binc IMAP. > The only thing I can't figure out is how to make courier require > encryption on remote connections, but not on loopback Easy. Use stunnel for encryption. Run Courier on 127.0.0.1 and have stunnel wrap it on the public IP address. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Nov 26 00:39:51 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Video Out ports Message-ID: <3FC44AB7.2010609@visi.com> My Micron laptop has VideoOut and Svideo Out. Has anyone used any VideoOut (looks like an RCA connector) with Linux to connect to a TV? I don't want to damage my TV or laptop in any way. I've connected a computer to a TV before but it was a TRS80. I'm running RH 8.0, everything on the laptop works great, a little slow but everything works. Sam. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Nov 26 00:34:09 2003 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200311260634.hAQ6Y9j19996@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Brand new sealed Athlon motherboard, $35 Brand new/sealed in box. All onboard components supported under Linux. Comes with a 6-in-1 flash reader that can be connected to a header on the motherboard. Does not have firewire. $46 at newegg. I am asking $35. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From foeclan at visi.com Wed Nov 26 00:53:20 2003 From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux and Video Out ports In-Reply-To: <3FC44AB7.2010609@visi.com> References: <3FC44AB7.2010609@visi.com> Message-ID: <3FC44DE0.4050203@visi.com> Sam MacDonald wrote: > Has anyone used any VideoOut (looks like an RCA connector) with Linux > to connect to a TV? I'm using Slackware on a Compaq Presario 1200Z. I've had no problems switching to the Video Out, and I didn't have to do any specific configuration under Linux to do so. On mine, it's controlled by a key combination, not by software, so your mileage may vary. > Sam. Michael Vieths Foeclan@Visi.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Nov 26 01:25:07 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Suse In-Reply-To: <2312.206.9.230.2.1069803668.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> References: <1995.65.116.187.220.1069779907.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> <2312.206.9.230.2.1069803668.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> Message-ID: <20031126012507.51f49e51.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:41:08 -0800 (PST) jack@jacku.com wrote: > The other thing that Josh mentioned that I'll second is hardware > recognition. I purchased and AverMedia TV tuner card and YaST picked it up > and configured it with out any hassle. Avermedia TV 98? That's the card that SuSE recognized for me that no other Linux at the time was able to. :) I even got Lirc working so you can use the remote control, sort of. I guess I really shouldn't diss Yast that much, I just NEVER use it once it's up and running, which I guess in and of itself speaks to SuSE's stability as an OS. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From garay002 at tc.umn.edu Wed Nov 26 08:47:13 2003 From: garay002 at tc.umn.edu (Rodney G. Garayt) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 Message-ID: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> Hello, I just did a new install of RH9 and one of the first things I noticed was the lack of a jingle when logging on. Is there one? I like RH for the most part. It seems a bit easier to use then Mandrake 8.1 which I was using previously but Mandrake was easier for configuring things. My second question has to do with mp3s. I tried to play an mp3 on xmms (I think that was the player I chose, looked like it anyway) and I got a message about some legal crap and it refused to play the song. What's going on? How do I play mp3s and how do I make sure that my sound card is configured correctly... or whatever it is that is not allowing me to hear sound. I've got a Creative SB Live sound card. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Nov 26 09:01:22 2003 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: Do I have to search newegg for a $46 motherboard to find the make and model on this one? ;-) >>> webmaster@mn-linux.org 11/26/03 12:34AM >>> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Brand new sealed Athlon motherboard, $35 Brand new/sealed in box. All onboard components supported under Linux. Comes with a 6-in-1 flash reader that can be connected to a header on the motherboard. Does not have firewire. $46 at newegg. I am asking $35. http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Nov 26 09:24:10 2003 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Rodney G. Garayt wrote: > Hello, > I just did a new install of RH9 and one of the first things I noticed > was the lack of a jingle when logging on. Is there one? I like RH for > the most part. It seems a bit easier to use then Mandrake 8.1 which I > was using previously but Mandrake was easier for configuring things. > My second question has to do with mp3s. I tried to play an mp3 on xmms > (I think that was the player I chose, looked like it anyway) and I got a > message about some legal crap and it refused to play the song. What's > going on? How do I play mp3s and how do I make sure that my sound card > is configured correctly... or whatever it is that is not allowing me to > hear sound. > I've got a Creative SB Live sound card. redhat has mp3 support disabled because mp3 is a proprietary format, look at converting your mp3s to oggs as a long term solution. mp32ogg shuld help: http://faceprint.com/code/ but reencoding the files from the original will give you better results as a shortterm solution you can download mp3 plugins forxmms from freshrpms.net -- Munir Nassar RedConcepts.NET http://redconcepts.net/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Nov 26 09:43:49 2003 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Finding USB Devices In-Reply-To: <20031125205228.5c08f82e.sfertch@real-time.com> References: <412739E8.7B6181B2.09BD8409@aol.com> <20031125193734.3020ad12.sfertch@real-time.com> <20031126020729.GA940@iucha.net> <20031125205228.5c08f82e.sfertch@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20031126154349.GA27775@refried.org> On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 08:52:28PM -0600, Shawn wrote: > I am using devfs and it still shows unused/unnecessary devices in > /dev. Turn off devfsd. ;) Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Nov 26 09:35:27 2003 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> References: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3676.65.116.187.220.1069860927.squirrel@mail.northlans.com> I had to run sndconfig from a shell to get my SB to work. -- Jim Streit Partner & Co-Founder NorthLANs Alliance, LLC JimStreit@northlans.com > Hello, > I just did a new install of RH9 and one of the first things I noticed > was the lack of a jingle when logging on. Is there one? I like RH for > the most part. It seems a bit easier to use then Mandrake 8.1 which I > was using previously but Mandrake was easier for configuring things. My > second question has to do with mp3s. I tried to play an mp3 on xmms (I > think that was the player I chose, looked like it anyway) and I got a > message about some legal crap and it refused to play the song. What's > going on? How do I play mp3s and how do I make sure that my sound card > is configured correctly... or whatever it is that is not allowing me to > hear sound. > I've got a Creative SB Live sound card. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Nov 26 10:53:00 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> References: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3FC4DA6C.602@eworld3.net> Rodney G. Garayt wrote: > the most part. It seems a bit easier to use then Mandrake 8.1 which I > was using previously but Mandrake was easier for configuring things. I suggest that you try Mandrake 9.2. I upgraded from 8.2 to 9.1 about a year ago and there was quite a difference. I just want to say that each major release of Mandrake is significantly better than the previous one. I don't want to start a big "this distro is best" discussion. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Nov 26 11:00:50 2003 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> References: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3FC4DC42.1010400@comcast.net> You will want to try "alsaconfig" or "sndconfig" to properly set up your sound card. Personally, I would try "alsaconfig" first, since it seems you have a PCI sound card. "sndconfig" is more useful with older onboard sound cards or ISA sound cards. If you don't want to dink around loading the proper modules to get MP3s to play, then might I suggest going to Mandrake9.1 or 9.2? Mandrake is based off of RedHat and has a similar "look & feel" and yet doesn't restrict the MP3 playback. If you don't have a cable modem, you could always give me a call/visit. I have a lot of distributions on CDR, including Mandrake9.1. Rodney G. Garayt wrote: > Hello, > I just did a new install of RH9 and one of the first things I noticed > was the lack of a jingle when logging on. Is there one? I like RH for > the most part. It seems a bit easier to use then Mandrake 8.1 which I > was using previously but Mandrake was easier for configuring things. My > second question has to do with mp3s. I tried to play an mp3 on xmms (I > think that was the player I chose, looked like it anyway) and I got a > message about some legal crap and it refused to play the song. What's > going on? How do I play mp3s and how do I make sure that my sound card > is configured correctly... or whatever it is that is not allowing me to > hear sound. I've got a Creative SB Live sound card. > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chris.smith at apigroupinc.com Wed Nov 26 11:02:26 2003 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4DA6C.602@eworld3.net> Message-ID: Fyi, there is no mp3 decoder in RH9 http://www.techonthenet.com/linux/mp3.htm Regards, Chris Smith API Information Systems Group www.apitools.net 651-604-2758 -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Rick Meyerhoff Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:53 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 Rodney G. Garayt wrote: > the most part. It seems a bit easier to use then Mandrake 8.1 which I > was using previously but Mandrake was easier for configuring things. I suggest that you try Mandrake 9.2. I upgraded from 8.2 to 9.1 about a year ago and there was quite a difference. I just want to say that each major release of Mandrake is significantly better than the previous one. I don't want to start a big "this distro is best" discussion. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Nov 26 11:14:19 2003 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031126171419.GD940@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jasonj at igi.com Wed Nov 26 13:04:06 2003 From: jasonj at igi.com (Jason Jorgensen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> Message-ID: <3FC4F926.90708@igi.com> There are 2 IMAP servers I currently like. 1) Cyrus I always use postfix/cyrus 2 for my mail servers. Cyrus has alot of really good features, though its complex to setup sometimes, its very flexible. It has its own maildir type format. But I always use an IMAP to IMAP copy when I change mail servers so I dont have to worry about format changes. 2) DBMail This server stores all mail in SQL. This has some very powerful advantages. You can have a beefy backend clustered sql server with many many IMAP frontends load balancing the users. And since its SQL you can use replication to other servers or locations or to a machine purely for backups. Its not totally ready for production yet. But I have lots of hopes for this project. If it becomes stable and production ready, I am seriously considering switching. I have an alias copy all my mail off to my dbmail server so I can test it. So far I personally havent run in to any issues. But thats just with 1 user. Again I do IMAP to IMAP copying, so I dont care what the backend mail format is. I have been meaning to finish writing my perl based IMAPrsync, but I am lazy. Bob Tanner wrote: >Been running courier-imap for about 2 years now. No complaints, but I thought >I'd ask for comments on IMAP servers out there today. > >Basic requirements. > >Maildir support (natively) >imap-ssl/pop-ssl >LDAP support (either natively or via pam) > >Not requirement but nice > >Offline imap support >Stats program >RPM package > >Comments? > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Nov 26 13:26:06 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4DC42.1010400@comcast.net> References: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> <3FC4DC42.1010400@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3FC4FE4E.4040901@eworld3.net> Todd Young wrote: > to play, then might I suggest going to Mandrake9.1 or 9.2? Mandrake is > based off of RedHat and has a similar "look & feel" and yet doesn't Actually, Mandrake used to be based on RH but has been a totally separate distro for quite some time now, maybe since Mandrake 6 or 7. To be clear, Mandrake used to take RH source and compile it for 586/Pentium and make other changes but at some point (release 6? 7?) they stopped taking source from RH and started keeping their own repository. -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From linuxguy at geesper.com Wed Nov 26 14:49:46 2003 From: linuxguy at geesper.com (linuxguy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: <3FC4FE4E.4040901@eworld3.net> References: <3FC4BCF1.7000307@tc.umn.edu> <3FC4DC42.1010400@comcast.net> <3FC4FE4E.4040901@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <3FC511EA.5040508@geesper.com> Just since I didn't see anyone post this answer. >Because mp3 is not a free encoding redhat droped its >support in version 8.0. So you need go to this >address: > >http://havardk.xmms.org/dist/xmms-1.2.7-rh8-rh9-rpm/ >or >http://xmms.org/ > >and get xmms-mpg123-1.2.7-21.i386.rpm file and click >on it and install it, please tell me if you need help >in rpm package installation in linux, > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mteff at frontiernet.net Wed Nov 26 16:32:05 2003 From: mteff at frontiernet.net (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependencies..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When using source file to compile an application, is there a way to get the configure script to tell you what dependencies it will be looking for? Some switch that will tell you, I need these files and versions? Instead of waiting for it to error at each one. Thanks. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Nov 26 22:44:00 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Dependencies..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031126224400.20b808e8.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:32:05 -0600 "Michael" wrote: > > When using source file to compile an application, is there a way to get the > configure script to tell you what dependencies it will be looking for? > Some switch that will tell you, I need these files and versions? Instead of > waiting for it to error at each one. I don't believe so, usually the author should have required dependencies listed somewhere in a README or INSTALL file, but many do not unfortunately. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Thu Nov 27 01:23:36 2003 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <20031122055543.GY21392@techmonkeys.org> (poptix@techmonkeys.org) References: <3FBA7598.7070404@igi.com> <200311211809.hALI9Pt12079@ecstasy.winternet.com> <1069473136.22134.60.camel@bigtime> <20031122055543.GY21392@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <200311270723.hAR7Na623816@ecstasy.winternet.com> On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 09:52:18PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote: > Totally completely unnecessary. Even with a reasonably high bit rate > MPEG4, 2500kbit, you're at a little over 300k/sec, which is WAY below > what even my old SLOW ASS Fujitsu UDMA33 drive was capable of, 10mb/sec. > Hell, the original 286 era PIO mode0 IDE could do 3mb/sec. These speed benchmarks have no real meaning. The speed obtained with the actual application is what is important! I meant to suggest using RAID software or hardware for a video server which may have several TV tuner cards recording video streams and several output streams to client TVs. The actuator of a single hard drive might trash violently, if the streams are several cylinders apart. Also, consider that the sustained read/write rate of any modern disk drive on the inner cylinders is about half what it is on the outer cylinders. The overhead of the software handling the streams should be considered as well. > Disk bandwidth is nowhere even near being a bottleneck. Even if you > start playing and recording several streams at a time. With multiple > clients the network bandwidth is going to nail you first. Viva > compression! Never underestimate disk bandwidth requirements and multiple layers of overhead. Re-mapped sectors on the disk can cause performance problems as well. Disk performance problems can occur in multiple levels in both hardware and software, a few of which have been mentioned above. If there's not enough RAM, one could also have some plain old disk thrashing as well. Finally, I didn't want to argue about the performance justification of RAID for this application. I was just curious about whether anyone had used RAID (software or hardware) for this application. If you could get a cheap UDMA33 hard drive or a cheap SCSI RAID setup for this application, which would you use? Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From duns0014 at umn.edu Thu Nov 27 01:53:50 2003 From: duns0014 at umn.edu (Joe Dunsmore) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] linux isos in 10 minutes Message-ID: <200311270753.hAR7rofs020447@fantasy.software.umn.edu> anyone else see this? it worked as advertised for me. I heard they might take it down and charge for it, so I'd try it out now. http://linux.dsi.internet2.edu/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From burns at runbox.com Thu Nov 27 11:48:48 2003 From: burns at runbox.com (Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fwd: [Announce] GnuPG's ElGamal signing keys compromised Message-ID: <20031127174848.68012.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 GPG ElGamal "signing keys" are exceptionally rare, but here's an announcement of their newly discovered compromise--if you haven't seen it already. The common standard RSA and DSA signing keys are not affected. And, ElGamal encryption is not affected--just signing. - --Randy Note: if Werner Koch's signature doesn't verify, I would blame the re-wrapping. ====forwarded message==== - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 GnuPG's ElGamal signing keys compromised ========================================== Summary ======= Phong Nguyen identified a severe bug in the way GnuPG creates and uses ElGamal keys for signing. This is a significant security failure which can lead to a compromise of almost all ElGamal keys used for signing. Note that this is a real world vulnerability which will reveal your private key within a few seconds. Please *take immediate action and revoke your ElGamal signing keys*. Furthermore you should take whatever measures necessary to limit the damage done for signed or encrypted documents using that key. Please do not send private mail in response to this message as I won't have the time to catch up with all the messages. The mailing list gnupg-users@gnupg.org is the best place to discuss this problem (please subscribe first so you don't need moderator approval [2]). Note that the standard keys as generated by GnuPG (DSA and ElGamal encryption) as well as RSA keys are NOT vulnerable. Note also that ElGamal signing keys cannot be generated without the use of a special flag to enable hidden options and even then overriding a warning message about this key type. See below for details on how to identify vulnerable keys. This message is signed using the usual GnuPG distribution key[1]. I apologize for this severe bug and all the problems resulting from it. Background: =========== For historic reasons [3], GnuPG permits creating ElGamal keys which are usable for both encryption and signing. It is even possible to have one key (the primary one) used for both operations. This is not considered good cryptographic practice, but is permitted by the OpenPGP standard. It was not anticipated that these keys would still be used for signing because they have several disadvantages: The signature is much larger than a RSA or DSA signature, verification and creation takes far longer and the use of ElGamal for signing has always been problematic due to a couple of cryptographic weaknesses when not done properly. Thus I have always dissuaded people from using ElGamal keys for signing; however they are still used and about 200 keys per year are generated and uploaded to the keyservers. In January 2000, as part of version 1.0.2, the GnuPG code was changed to create ElGamal keys which work more efficiently for encryption (selecting a smaller x secret exponent and using a smaller k for encryption). While making this change the problem with signing keys was accidentally introduced: the same small k for encryption was also used for signing. This can be used for a cryptographic attack to reveal the private key (i.e. the secret exponent x) if a signature made using that key is available. Such a signature is always available for primary ElGamal keys because signatures created with that key are used to bind the user ID and other material to the primary key (self-signatures). Even if the key was never used for signing documents it should be considered compromised. Note that this weakness does not apply to the far more common encrypt-only (type 16) ElGamal key as GnuPG does not permit signatures to be issued by this key type. Only the ElGamal sign+encrypt key (type 20) is affected and then only when used to make a signature with a GnuPG version 1.0.2 or later. Impact: ======= All ElGamal sign+encrypt keys (type 20) generated with GnuPG 1.0.2 or later must be considered compromised. Keys generated and used only with prior versions might still be safe but should ideally be revoked too. Note that even if an ElGamal sign+encrypt key was generated before GnuPG 1.0.2, using that key in GnuPG 1.0.2 or later to issue signatures will still compromise the key. Again, ElGamal encrypt-only keys (type 16) from any version of GnuPG are *not* affected. Solution: ========= Do not use *ElGamal sign+encrypt keys (type 20)*. Revoke all those keys immediately. Consider all material signed or encrypted with such a key as compromised. Forthcoming GnuPG versions will remove the ability to create such keys and the ability create ElGamal signatures. How to detect ElGamal type 20 keys: =================================== We have to distinguish between two cases: The primary key is ElGamal sign+encrypt versus just a subkey is ElGamal sign+encrypt. The first case requires immediate attention, like this one: $ gpg --list-keys xxxxxxxx pub 2048G/xxxxxxxx 2001-xx-xx Mallory such a key might be followed with additional "uid", "sig" or "sub" lines. Here an ElGamal sign+encrypt key is used and very likely created with GnuPG >= 1.0.2. The capital letter "G" indicates a ElGamal sign+encrypt key. REVOKE such a key immediately. The second case is about subkeys. Here is an example: $ gpg --list-keys 621CC013 pub 1024D/621CC013 1998-07-07 Werner Koch uid Werner Koch uid Werner Koch sub 1536g/ADF6A6E1 1999-02-20 [expires: 2002-11-01] sub 1536G/B5A18FF4 1998-07-07 [expires: 2002-07-06] sub 1536R/23D2A63D 2002-07-30 [expires: 2003-12-31] This my usual working key, which is a standard GnuPG key with some additional subkeys added over time. It is a good example because one subkey was created as type 20 signing and encrypt ElGamal key. It is the second subkey: sub 1536G/B5A18FF4 1998-07-07 [expires: 2002-07-06] The capital letter "G" denotes such an possible compromised subkey whereas the first subkey: sub 1536g/ADF6A6E1 1999-02-20 [expires: 2002-11-01] is a standard encryption-only subkey as indicated by the small letter "g". That key is not affected. The keys denoted with this capital letter "G" should be REVOKED unless you are definitely sure those subkeys were never used to create a signatures with GnuPG >= 1.0.2. How to revoke a key: ==================== To create a revocation certificate for the entire key (primary and all subkeys), you do: gpg --gen-revoke your_keyid >foo.rev If you have lost access to your passphrase, hopefully you have a pre-manufactured revocation certificate (either on a floppy or printed on a sheet of paper) which you may the use instead of the above command. This revocation certificate should then be imported into GnuPG using: gpg --import mykey.asc gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys your_keyid If your primary key is not an ElGamal key, you might need to revoke a subkey. Note again that only type 20 ElGamal keys (denoted by a capital letter "G") require revocation - the standard ElGamal encrypt-only key (small g) is perfectly fine. Use gpg's edit command like this: $ gpg --edit-key xyzxyzxy The key listing will be shown. Select the subkey you want to revoke, using the command "key 2" (or whatever subkey it is) and then enter the command "revkey" and follow the prompts. Continue then with an export as described above. How many keys are affected? =========================== I can't tell for sure. According to the keyserver statistics, there are 848 primary ElGamal signing keys which are affected. These are a mere 0.04 percent of all primary keys on the keyservers. There are 324 vulnerable subkeys on the keyservers, too. Some of the subkeys might have never been used for signing because for some time in the past GnuPG created the encryption subkey as type 20 but didn't used it for signing because the DSA primary key was used instead. It is better to revoke such keys nevertheless. Note again that the standard configuration of GnuPG does not allow creating the vulnerable sign+encrypt ElGamal keys and that neither DSA (type 17), RSA (type 1) nor ElGamal encrypt-only keys (type 16) are affected. Thanks ====== Phong Nguyen [4] analyzed the implementation of GnuPG's cryptographic parts and found this vulnerability. He also developed actual code to mount the attack and was so kind to give me enough time to have a look at his paper and to gather a list of known type 20 keys owners. I am really sorry for this, Werner [1] To get a fresh key you might want to consult the keyservers or get it from using "finger wk@g10code.com" or "finger dd9jn@gnu.org". [2] See http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users . [3] The patent status of DSA was not clear when I started to write GnuPG back in 1997. [4] Working at the French National Center for Scientific Research and the Ecole normale superieure: http://www.di.ens.fr/~pnguyen/ . - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/xavwaLeriVdUjc0RAquhAJ9crSJ2j8EbqaAnbJGoXBsgERPLaACePwcP 70laYWsyhXkzVgqL2X4ELVk= =xGWG - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBP8Y4PoTS2k0s7K4fEQIuDACfe4FqFarLjuB6LkE3cuTqkGxHjhEAoOEg BXzoCzyF9OhY3lreagBh/Ov6 =dV1i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcolivier at earthlink.net Thu Nov 27 10:29:11 2003 From: mcolivier at earthlink.net (Marc Olivier) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] macromedia flash for linux Message-ID: <200311270829.11647.mcolivier@earthlink.net> Hi, all. I have SuSE Linux 8.0 and I am trying to view a site that demands I have Macromedia Flash. I downloaded a version from the Macromedia site via Yast 2, but nothng is happening and I still can't get in. Any suggestions? Marc Olivier _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Thu Nov 27 21:48:38 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail / spamassassin question Message-ID: <20031128034838.GA30202@fireopal.org> So, I know SpamAssassin adds a score to each e-mail it processes. Is there any way to get procmail to look at this score and evaluate it numerically? I'd like to just toss everything with a score > x (say, 10), and mark anything < x and > y (say, 5). Could someone give me a hint as to what to look at in procmail to do this? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From MAnderson at iddx.net Thu Nov 27 22:19:06 2003 From: MAnderson at iddx.net (Matthew R Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail / spamassassin question In-Reply-To: <20031128034838.GA30202@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20031128041857.326D2F3C3@barquito.iddx.net> SA has a file called 'procmailrc.example' in its source bundle that explains how to do something like that. It's fairly straightforward. Let me know if you need further help after looking at this example. -Matt -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Scott Raun Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 9:49 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] procmail / spamassassin question So, I know SpamAssassin adds a score to each e-mail it processes. Is there any way to get procmail to look at this score and evaluate it numerically? I'd like to just toss everything with a score > x (say, 10), and mark anything < x and > y (say, 5). Could someone give me a hint as to what to look at in procmail to do this? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Nov 27 22:29:04 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] macromedia flash for linux In-Reply-To: <200311270829.11647.mcolivier@earthlink.net> References: <200311270829.11647.mcolivier@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20031127222904.0000623b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Is mozilla SuSE's version or a custom install? In either case, make sure the libflashplayer.so and flashplayer.xpt files are in the plugins directory in the Mozilla installation directory (/opt/mozilla?) or in ~/.mozilla/plugins You can enter the URL about:plugins in Mozilla to check the available plugins. Josh On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:29:11 -0800 Marc Olivier wrote: > Hi, all. > I have SuSE Linux 8.0 and I am trying to view a site that demands I have > Macromedia Flash. I downloaded a version from the Macromedia site via Yast 2, > but nothng is happening and I still can't get in. Any suggestions? > > Marc Olivier > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at JentgeS.NeT Thu Nov 27 22:31:36 2003 From: mike at JentgeS.NeT (Michael Jentges) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - skypoint In-Reply-To: <3FC382A6.9050306@structural-wood.com> References: <3FC382A6.9050306@structural-wood.com> Message-ID: <2870.199.199.150.6.1069993896.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Here's what Kent Schumacher babbled earlier : > I've used skypoint both personally and professionally - they are > a great provider and are very good to work with. They are > extremely comfortable with BSD and Linux. > > Whenever there is even the potential for a 'burp' in the system, > they post a well written and sometimes entertaining e-mail to > their users. Ditto, and ditto again. IIRC they started in '94, I've been with them since then. My acct was set up on a Sunday. I got fed up with Primenet, on a rage called there. Not only did someone answer, (poor devil) but provided I could recieve, sign and return a fax assured me I'd have service that afternoon. I did. Granted this was likely a lucky fluke, but the person found time amongst whatever nasty task required them to be there on Sunday to set up some raging goofball with a dialup account. I guess that was 10 years ago already... Whoa. They've bent over backwards to accomodate some of my silly needs. Everybody 'burps' at one time or another. :) -mj -- --------------------- Jentges.NET, Inc. Voice: 763.783.3702 Cell: 763.370.1201 --------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Fri Nov 28 00:57:10 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ISP Review - skypoint In-Reply-To: <2870.199.199.150.6.1069993896.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> References: <3FC382A6.9050306@structural-wood.com> <2870.199.199.150.6.1069993896.squirrel@webmail.jentges.net> Message-ID: <200311280057.13706.smac@visi.com> Well I'm using my new/old laptop for more and more, eMail using KMail, Konqueror for web brwosing. KMail works but I thought "I'll down load Thunderbird to test it". Funny thing (observation really) Linux file names are very descriptive where windows filenameing is still using the 8.3 file nameing of DOS for the most part. I wonder when this will change and we will see more naming of files like the Linux naming in the M$ world? Just a thought. Sam _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Nov 28 11:49:33 2003 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] MythTV box In-Reply-To: <200311270723.hAR7Na623816@ecstasy.winternet.com> Message-ID: > If you could get a cheap UDMA33 hard drive or a cheap SCSI RAID setup > for this application, which would you use? Single UDMA vs SCSI RAID? This is actually one application where I feel SCSI is justified. If you're considering better discs, it's because you want to have multiple read/writes happening simultaneously. This is the one function that IDE still doesn't have that SCSI has, the ability to execute several commands at once. I think a single older SCSI drive may outperform a newer IDE drive in this application, and possibly an IDE RAID. (not sure if the multiple command thing is on a per-bus basis or a per-drive basis...) Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Nov 29 04:17:19 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Sound and MP3s on RH9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1070101039.5657.5.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Sat Nov 29 04:45:00 2003 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] IMAP servers? In-Reply-To: <018d01c3b3da$696401b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <200311242131.59084@join.TCLUG.at.www.mn-linux.org> <1069793250.7247.970.camel@bigtime> <018d01c3b3da$696401b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <1070102700.5657.20.camel@bigtime> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michael.arolan at excite.com Sat Nov 29 06:27:45 2003 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx program Message-ID: <20031129122745.C34CC133D7@xmxpita.excite.com> Hi Guys - Does anyone know if mailx comes with RedHat 8.0? If it does which package is it in? Does annyone know how I can find this info myself? I'm sure there must be a command somewhere in Linux that tell you what is installed and which package they belong to and which is not installed ... etc Thanks for your help. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michael.arolan at excite.com Sat Nov 29 06:43:16 2003 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx Message-ID: <20031129124316.C20CCB6CE@xmxpita.excite.com> Hi guys Does anyone know if the mailx program is included in RedHat Linux 8.0? If it is which package is it contained in? Thanks guys. Michael _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Nov 29 08:02:09 2003 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx In-Reply-To: <20031129124316.C20CCB6CE@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031129124316.C20CCB6CE@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <20031129140209.GA28559@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 07:43:16AM -0500, Michael wrote: > > Hi guys > > Does anyone know if the mailx program is included in RedHat Linux 8.0? If it is which package is it contained in? > > Thanks guys. > > Michael > The mailx package provides /bin/mail. Is that what you are looking for? Also, check out Michael Fratoni's 'whichcd' package. It tells you which CD contains the rpm for a specified program. (http://sourceforge.net/projects/whichcd/) -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net Sat Nov 29 11:04:39 2003 From: scot+tcluggen at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx program In-Reply-To: <20031129122745.C34CC133D7@xmxpita.excite.com>; from michael.arolan@excite.com on Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 07:27:45AM -0500 References: <20031129122745.C34CC133D7@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <20031129110438.A15494@thinkunix.net> Michael wrote: > Does anyone know if mailx comes with RedHat 8.0? If it does which package is it in? Does annyone know how I can find this info myself? I'm sure there must be a command somewhere in Linux that tell you what is installed and which package they belong to and which is not installed ... etc RedHat uses RPM for package management. # this gives you a list of all packages that are installed $ rpm -qa |sort # find which package a program belongs to (assumming program is # installed) $ rpm -qf /bin/mail mailx- "man rpm" or "rpm --help" for more info Also, if you're looking for something that's not already installed, http://rpmfind.net/ is handy. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michael.arolan at excite.com Sat Nov 29 12:22:24 2003 From: michael.arolan at excite.com (Michael) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx program Message-ID: <20031129182224.94FE5B6C7@xmxpita.excite.com> Thanks Scott, that really helped. I typed the commands you gave it looked like mailx was installed. rpm -qf /bin/mail and got mailx-8.1.1-26 but when I typed mailx on the command line I get "no suct file" message. I even try using the "which command" but no luck. Even the man pages does not have any entry for mailx. Where does the executable of mailx live? Thanks again. Michael --- On Sat 11/29, Scot Jenkins < scot+tcluggen@thinkunix.net > wrote: From: Scot Jenkins [mailto: scot+tcluggen@thinkunix.net] To: michael.arolan@excite.com, tclug-list@mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:04:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [TCLUG] mailx program Michael wrote:
> Does anyone know if mailx comes with RedHat 8.0? If it does which package is it in? Does annyone know how I can find this info myself? I'm sure there must be a command somewhere in Linux that tell you what is installed and which package they belong to and which is not installed ... etc

RedHat uses RPM for package management.

# this gives you a list of all packages that are installed
$ rpm -qa |sort

# find which package a program belongs to (assumming program is
# installed)
$ rpm -qf /bin/mail
mailx-

"man rpm" or "rpm --help" for more info

Also, if you're looking for something that's not already installed,
http://rpmfind.net/ is handy.
--
scot

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
_______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Sat Nov 29 13:38:02 2003 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? Message-ID: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Anyone have suggestions for finding a small used cabinet for rack mount 1U servers? I happen to have 4 now as I just got some Sunfire hand-me-downs a Dell and a Cobalt. It doesn't have to be huge or fancy, I just want to have one nice central place to control all the cabling. I'm looking on eBay and there are a good number of these, but I'm sure shipping will be a nightmare. Is there a good place in the cities to get this stuff, preferably cheap and/or used? Anyone want to sell one to me? :) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Sat Nov 29 14:20:30 2003 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx program In-Reply-To: <20031129182224.94FE5B6C7@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031129182224.94FE5B6C7@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <3FC8FF8E.3010504@eworld3.net> > Where does the executable of mailx live? try brute force: find / -name mailx 2>/dev/null Why do you want mailx anyway? -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sat Nov 29 20:41:37 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <20031129204049.J45667@unix18.sihope.com> I've seen some at Dexis over the years - sometime they have them, sometimes not. Otherwise you can order new from Graybar (www.graybar.com) - they are local. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Anyone have suggestions for finding a small used cabinet for rack mount 1U servers? I happen to have 4 now as I just got some Sunfire hand-me-downs a Dell and a Cobalt. It doesn't have to be huge or fancy, I just want to have one nice central place to control all the cabling. > > I'm looking on eBay and there are a good number of these, but I'm sure shipping will be a nightmare. Is there a good place in the cities to get this stuff, preferably cheap and/or used? Anyone want to sell one to me? :) > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sraun at fireopal.org Sat Nov 29 21:21:54 2003 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: <20031129204049.J45667@unix18.sihope.com> References: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <20031129204049.J45667@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <20031130032154.GA11457@fireopal.org> On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 08:41:37PM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote: > I've seen some at Dexis over the years - sometime they have them, > sometimes not. Per http://www.dexis.com/: : Big Changes at Dexis! : : As of the close of business on Saturday, June 28, Dexis will no longer : be open to the general public for shopping and browsing. We will still : be doing business via email as well as online through eBay. -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From waynej at dccmn.com Sat Nov 29 21:47:34 2003 From: waynej at dccmn.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> References: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> Message-ID: <1941.192.1.1.23.1070164054.squirrel@dccmn.com> Try ebay but limit the search to the MSP/STP area. Then make sure you can pick up (will call) before bidding. Two local vendors I've had good luck with are sla22 (R W Data in Brooklyn Center) and vitrack (Plymouth). Both have warehouses full of equipment. Josh Trutwin said: > Anyone have suggestions for finding a small used cabinet for rack mount > 1U servers? I happen to have 4 now as I just got some Sunfire > hand-me-downs a Dell and a Cobalt. It doesn't have to be huge or fancy, > I just want to have one nice central place to control all the cabling. > > I'm looking on eBay and there are a good number of these, but I'm sure > shipping will be a nightmare. Is there a good place in the cities to > get this stuff, preferably cheap and/or used? Anyone want to sell one > to me? :) > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Nov 30 10:10:52 2003 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: <20031129204049.J45667@unix18.sihope.com> References: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <20031129204049.J45667@unix18.sihope.com> Message-ID: <3FCA168C.5050506@visi.com> Try this place they have a rack for $300 on eBay and they are in Minnetonka I believe. http://www.C-Techonline.com Sam Adam Maloney wrote: >I've seen some at Dexis over the years - sometime they have them, >sometimes not. > >Otherwise you can order new from Graybar (www.graybar.com) - they are >local. > >Adam Maloney >Systems Administrator >Sihope Communications >On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > > >>Anyone have suggestions for finding a small used cabinet for rack mount 1U servers? I happen to have 4 now as I just got some Sunfire hand-me-downs a Dell and a Cobalt. It doesn't have to be huge or fancy, I just want to have one nice central place to control all the cabling. >> >>I'm looking on eBay and there are a good number of these, but I'm sure shipping will be a nightmare. Is there a good place in the cities to get this stuff, preferably cheap and/or used? Anyone want to sell one to me? :) >> >>Josh >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sun Nov 30 11:40:50 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Small used server rack cabinets? In-Reply-To: <20031130032154.GA11457@fireopal.org> References: <20031129133802.56465892.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> <20031129204049.J45667@unix18.sihope.com> <20031130032154.GA11457@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20031130113856.H84180@unix18.sihope.com> Sonnova...guess it's been awhile since my last visit :) Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Scott Raun wrote: > On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 08:41:37PM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote: > > I've seen some at Dexis over the years - sometime they have them, > > sometimes not. > > Per http://www.dexis.com/: > > : Big Changes at Dexis! > : > : As of the close of business on Saturday, June 28, Dexis will no longer > : be open to the general public for shopping and browsing. We will still > : be doing business via email as well as online through eBay. > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Sun Nov 30 13:32:23 2003 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager Message-ID: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web content manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server troubles. I had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he wasn't able to get it done, so we are looking for something like WebGui again. I would like it to support multiple users, be mysql driven, and if possible, not look too blocky. I would be glad to ask this question on a more appropriate news group, but not sure what that would be. Raymond _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Nov 30 14:06:29 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <000401c3b77d$71301f40$0201a8c0@brinstar> Raymond Norton writes: > I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web > content manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server > troubles. I had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he > wasn't able to get it done, so we are looking for something like > WebGui again. I don't know if Zope fits into the "easy to setup" category, but it is a very powerful and comprehensive solution: http://www.zope.org/ Check out these demos: http://www.zope.com/Demos/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Sun Nov 30 15:38:52 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager In-Reply-To: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031130213852.GA4513@therub.org> On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 01:32:23PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web content > manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server troubles. I > had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he wasn't able to get it > done, so we are looking for something like WebGui again. > > > I would like it to support multiple users, be mysql driven, and if possible, > not look too blocky. There are a ton that are PHP/MySQL. Check out www.opensourcecms.com for a preview of a bunch of them. > > > I would be glad to ask this question on a more appropriate news group, but > not sure what that would be. Check tcphp.org - this topic is asked about and covered frequently, so check the archives before posting :) dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Sun Nov 30 16:00:42 2003 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager In-Reply-To: <20031130213852.GA4513@therub.org> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> <20031130213852.GA4513@therub.org> Message-ID: <20031130220041.GB4513@therub.org> On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 03:38:52PM -0600, Dan Rue wrote: > On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 01:32:23PM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > > I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web content > > manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server troubles. I > > had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he wasn't able to get it > > done, so we are looking for something like WebGui again. > > > > > > I would like it to support multiple users, be mysql driven, and if possible, > > not look too blocky. > There are a ton that are PHP/MySQL. Check out www.opensourcecms.com for > a preview of a bunch of them. This was also on slashdot.org Tuesday: http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/03/11/25/2257243.shtml?tid=185 giddy up, dan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adamm at sihope.com Sun Nov 30 16:09:30 2003 From: adamm at sihope.com (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request Tracker Message-ID: <20031130160731.Q22958@unix18.sihope.com> Maybe a little late, but for those who were asking about ticket systems, Sun's BigAdmin did a 2-part article on Request Tracker: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/req_track_1.html HTH Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From colin at lookingawry.com Sun Nov 30 17:06:14 2003 From: colin at lookingawry.com (colin schaub) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel sanders in the kitchen In-Reply-To: <20031130220041.GB4513@therub.org> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> <20031130213852.GA4513@therub.org> <20031130220041.GB4513@therub.org> Message-ID: <1070233574.3fca77e679582@www.lookingawry.com> howdy all, i've got an olde mandrake linux box. i like it a lot. it's been patched so heavily it no longer looks like a it's original mandrake 8.0 image at all. the one thing i haven't upgraded is the kernel. anyone have much experience in this? any insight? starting points? i've looked around to RTFM, albeit briefly, and have found a few sites and email lists. it all seems pretty easy - if you knew exaclty what to do already. i'd love some suggestions and/or things to watch out for. merci, colin. ps - i'd think it's pretty easy to just compile a kernel. but what about all the things that get compiled in? how do i make sure i've built a kernel that is the "same" as the one i've got, just upgraded. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Sun Nov 30 18:46:02 2003 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mailx program In-Reply-To: <20031129182224.94FE5B6C7@xmxpita.excite.com> References: <20031129182224.94FE5B6C7@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <16330.36682.793519.316638@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I don't know for sure how this works on RedHat, but on Mandrake, mailx installs /usr/bin/mail. To see what files are installed by this rpm do: rpm --query --list mailx R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Sun Nov 30 18:45:18 2003 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel sanders in the kitchen References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2><20031130213852.GA4513@therub.org><20031130220041.GB4513@therub.org> <1070233574.3fca77e679582@www.lookingawry.com> Message-ID: <000601c3b7a4$64d02cf0$0201a8c0@brinstar> colin schaub writes: > the one thing i haven't upgraded is the kernel. anyone have much > experience in this? any insight? starting points? i've looked around > to RTFM, albeit briefly, and have found a few sites and email lists. > it all seems pretty easy - if you knew exaclty what to do already. > i'd love some suggestions and/or things to watch out for. Assuming your distro doesn't have a nice system for building and packaging a kernel (like Debian's make-kpkg), you'll need to do it by hand. Follow the instructions you've already found, or read the README that comes with the Linux source. It should basically consist of these steps, with an additional step if you use modules: make menuconfig make dep make bzImage You'll then actually install the new kernel by copying it to the place where your boot loader looks for it (specified in /etc/lilo.conf if you use lilo). > ps - i'd think it's pretty easy to just compile a kernel. but what > about all the things that get compiled in? how do i make sure i've > built a kernel that is the "same" as the one i've got, just upgraded. Find the config file for the current kernel and copy it into the Linux source tree as .config. Then run "make oldconfig". This will import your old config. Do this from a freshly unpacked source tree, before you do anything else. If you don't have the old config, you'll have to configure the new kernel from scratch. This isn't difficult, but can take a few tries to get right the first time. Make sure to look at everything when doing this, as the config that ships with the source sometimes has some odd options set. Also take care to setup your boot loader to allow you to boot the known working kernel should the new one fail. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Sun Nov 30 22:55:17 2003 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:44:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager In-Reply-To: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <200311302255.17273.jack@jacku.com> On Sunday 30 November 2003 01:32 pm, Raymond Norton wrote: > I need to find an open source, easy to set up / easy to use web content > manager. I tried to setup WebGui a year ago, but had server troubles. I > had someone working on a Cold Fusion solution, but he wasn't able to get > it done, so we are looking for something like WebGui again. > > > I would like it to support multiple users, be mysql driven, and if > possible, not look too blocky. > > > I would be glad to ask this question on a more appropriate news group, but > not sure what that would be. > > > Raymond I'll second the comment on Zope. Most current distos have a Zope package. Once you get Zope installed look at the www.plone.org . Plone is a content management system with lots of bells and whistles. If you decide to do this then go to this site: http://lists.isd197.org/mailman/listinfo/tczpug and sign up for the Twin Cities Zope/Python User group mailing list. If you want more options visit the page: http://www.tcwebdev.org and signup for the tcwebdev mailing list and ask this question there. I If you have more questions on Zope please feel free to contact me off list. -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at warskunk.com Sun Nov 30 17:14:13 2003 From: seg at warskunk.com (Seg) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:02 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] easy to use web content manager In-Reply-To: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> References: <006f01c3b778$ae233f90$0a00a8c0@DELL2> Message-ID: <20031130231413.GB19367@warskunk.com> Plone (www.plone.org) looks quite spiffy, has anyone had any experience with it? It has an impressive enough list of users. Its Zope based. I need a CMS that can be easily used by inexperienced users. I haven't had a chance to set it up myself yet... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Sat Nov 1 02:19:02 2003 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No November TCLUG meeting Message-ID: <20031031152644.GB20315@fandre.com> Doh! I totally spaced out and forgot that tomorrow is the first Saturday of the month. Because of Halloween we won't be having a meeting this month. I'll try and get on the ball for next month and get something planned. If you have any ideas of suggestions, let me know. -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From djb at tc.umn.edu Mon Nov 17 15:13:25 2003 From: djb at tc.umn.edu (Dave Bianchi) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:45:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] TCSA meeting November 20 Message-ID: The Twin Cities System Administrators (TCSA) group meets monthly to discuss topics of interest to system and network administrators in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. The meetings are free and open to the public. Check out our web site at http://www.tcsa.org/ TCSA meetings are on the third Thursday of each month at 7:00 pm. ----- Next Meeting: Topic: Out-of-band Management of Unix and Linux Servers Speaker: Jan Elliger, Digi International Date/Time: November 20, 2003 7:00 pm Location: France Place Synopsis: Out-of-band Management of Unix and Linux Servers * What is out-of-band management * Why is out-of-band management important * Hardware solutions * Conserver: a public domain tool About the Speaker: Jan Elliger is a Product Manager at Digi International focusing on out-of-band management. He is responsible for future products and developments of out-of-band management solutions. Before he switched to product management, Jan was a developer in the VoIP and remote access area. We will meet at the France Place Building, 3601 Minnesota Drive, in a conference room one floor down from street level on level "P" (underground Parking). Our conference room will be the first one that you see. Tentative Meeting Schedule December 18, 2003 January 15, 2004 Directions: The France Place Building is at 3601 Minnesota Drive on the northeast corner of Hwy 494 and France Avenue in the Bloomington business district. From 494, go north on France Ave. to Minnesota Drive (the first streetlight north of 494). Take a right (east) onto Minnesota Drive and immediately take another right into the parking lot. The building sign is visible from 494 and shares a parking lot with Fuddruckers. France Place is a nine story brown brick building. - Parking Free parking is available in the main lot. - Web map is at: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=3601+minnesota+drive&city=bloomington&state=mn&zipcode=55435 For more information on TCSA, check out our web site: http://www.tcsa.org/ To subscribe to the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS mailing lists, follow the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS link from: http://list.onvoy.com/ For any other information, please send email to: djb@tc.umn.edu or contact: Dave Bianchi 651-260-1770 -- Dave Bianchi djb@tc.umn.edu 651-260-1770 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list