From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Aug 1 11:24:12 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408011624.i71GOCV31668@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ibm tower i have the following for sale; IBM 300PL tower, model 6892-N4U. P3 500, 192mb memory, cd, floppy, integrated NIC and sound. No hdd. $50 or b.o. Seller Email address: lombardo at evilcricket dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 16:18:24 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20040731040302.GA9516@refried.org> References: <20040701180946.GE3535@fandre.com> <20040731040302.GA9516@refried.org> Message-ID: <914f813c0408011418141ddb39@mail.gmail.com> I still have heard nothing. I'll track the guy's email addy down again and ask him. (He never replied.) John On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:03:02 -0500, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 01:09:46PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > > Because of the holiday there will not be a July TCLUG meeting. Have a > > safe and happy 4th! > > Just a week away from when the August meeting would be. Is there going > to be a meeting in August? > > Nate > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Sun Aug 1 18:08:40 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> Message-ID: <16653.30712.722263.331531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Given that you say "What we need to do is not very complicated -- something comparable to a simple VB app on Windows." I'm inclined to suggest that you avoid the larger-scale systems. In particular, I'd eschew anything involving either C++ or Java. Why buy into a compile-test-debug-compile cycle if you don't need to? I'd suggest instead picking up something that yokes together an *interpreted* programming/scripting language like python, perl, ruby, or tcl together with a toolkit that's easy for you to live with. Me, I mostly use Tk, and I have friends who use wxWidgets (mostly with Python). I think Gtk would be good, too. I like KDE better than Gnome, but I haven't seen any nice scripting interface to KDE/Qt, so would recommend against it (perl libraries seem > 0.5 busted). Seems to me that you should be able to demand a solution where if your program doesn't work properly the first time, you can just tweak it on-line until it does. Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sun Aug 1 20:25:25 2004 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16653.30712.722263.331531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <16653.30712.722263.331531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com> On Sun, Aug 01, 2004 at 06:08:40PM -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > Given that you say "What we need to do is not very complicated -- > something comparable to a simple VB app on Windows." I'm inclined to > suggest that you avoid the larger-scale systems. In particular, I'd > eschew anything involving either C++ or Java. Why buy into a > compile-test-debug-compile cycle if you don't need to? > > I'd suggest instead picking up something that yokes together an > *interpreted* programming/scripting language like python, perl, ruby, > or tcl together with a toolkit that's easy for you to live with. Me, > I mostly use Tk, and I have friends who use wxWidgets (mostly with > Python). I think Gtk would be good, too. I like KDE better than > Gnome, but I haven't seen any nice scripting interface to KDE/Qt, so > would recommend against it (perl libraries seem > 0.5 busted). > > Seems to me that you should be able to demand a solution where if > your program doesn't work properly the first time, you can just tweak > it on-line until it does. Hear, hear! If what you have to do is simple, just check out the following: easygui: http://www.ferg.org/easygui/ Combined with Python: http://www.python.org/ Granted, the gui is just a wrapper around Tcl/Tk, but it can accomplish many small tasks where you need input from the user. Also note that the Easygui gets away from the object oriented programming (which can be a blessing with a small task where you don't intend the application to become large. If you need to compile the application to a stand-alone .exe on Winders, you can do it with this: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/ If I completely missed the mark, I am sorry, but I just picked up on the "easy" part of your statement and ran with it :-) Kelly KB0GBJ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Sun Aug 1 21:12:00 2004 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++.so.6 Message-ID: <16653.41712.178017.581038@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I'm running a middle-aged (9.1) Mandrake system, and someone just sent me a program I need to run that wants libstdc++.so.6, whereas I only have .so.5 Mandrake 10 has libstdc++.so.6 in it, but I'm not in a position to upgrade right now (there's important stuff right now, so I can't afford the couple of days of being crippled). Is there a relatively painless way to add this? thanks, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Mon Aug 2 15:20:24 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:14 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20040731040302.GA9516@refried.org> References: <20040701180946.GE3535@fandre.com> <20040731040302.GA9516@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040802202024.GB1547@fandre.com> Good question. I haven't been able to find a formal speaker for this month. Is there enough interest to have a meeting? Anyone willing to present something or demo something? -- Clay On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, nate@refried.org wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 01:09:46PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > > Because of the holiday there will not be a July TCLUG meeting. Have a > > safe and happy 4th! > > Just a week away from when the August meeting would be. Is there going > to be a meeting in August? > > Nate > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Aug 2 17:12:37 2004 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Which spyware removal tool? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know how well exactly it is supported, but Spybot has an option to "Install Icons for Blind Users" Don't know what that means myself, but seems like it would be worth checking out for your situation. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From minnesotan at runbox.com Mon Aug 2 22:50:43 2004 From: minnesotan at runbox.com (Randy Burns) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Patents Message-ID: <20040803035043.60382.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> This is about the third Linux patent infringement story that I've stumbled across. I guess that just means that Linux is officially big business. Randy ------------------------------------------------- "Group: Linux potentially infringes 283 patents" By Stephen Shankland CNET News.com August 1, 2004 http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5291403.html excerpt: [An artifact of current patent law in the United States is that companies and individuals are discouraged from seeing if their products infringe, Ravicher said. "If you have knowledge and are found to infringe, a court can punish you," tripling financial penalties, Ravicher said. "If you say you didn't know and didn't see it, a court can't punish you. It's a screwed-up rule." Linux founder and leader Linus Torvalds has taken that approach. "Finding patent infringement has always been a responsibility of the patent holders," he said in a 2003 interview. "It is a fact that I do not encourage engineers to look up patent information."] ------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Mon Aug 2 22:59:21 2004 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com><16653.30712.722263.331531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Kelly Black writes: > easygui: > http://www.ferg.org/easygui/ It might be easy, but it's very limited, looks horrible and the author doesn't know how to screenshot a window on Windows (alt-prtscr) nor knows how to crop images. There are good, easy to use development tools available for Windows that allow programmers to efficiently create professional quality applications. Suggesting software like this to developers familiar with Windows development tools is not going to make them want to develop for Linux. All it does is make them think that the only available Linux tools are complete crap. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at turbobit.com Mon Aug 2 21:02:49 2004 From: lists at turbobit.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com> <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20040803020248.GA28165@dad1> On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:59:21PM -0500, David Phillips wrote: > Kelly Black writes: > > easygui: > > http://www.ferg.org/easygui/ > > It might be easy, but it's very limited, looks horrible and the author > doesn't know how to screenshot a window on Windows (alt-prtscr) nor knows > how to crop images. Are you trying to win some kind of Dan Bernstein tactless award or something? > There are good, easy to use development tools available for Windows that > allow programmers to efficiently create professional quality applications. Thats wonderful, but he wants to program for Linux. > Suggesting software like this to developers familiar with Windows > development tools is not going to make them want to develop for Linux. All > it does is make them think that the only available Linux tools are complete > crap. So your calling Python and TK complete crap? I thought it was better than your suggestion for winelib, kylix, QT. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Tue Aug 3 09:53:53 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup Message-ID: <410FA701.5050603@tcq.net> I'm trying to set up a wireless card on an older Thinkpad 380Z. I've found lots of bits and pieces of information in help files and HOW-TOs, but I must be missing some step of the process. Can anyone give an overview of how to set up a wireless pc card? I have Debian "testing" version, kernel 2.4.25-1-386. The wireless card is a Trendnet TEW-226PC cardbus PC card. With the command "lspci -v" I get: 0000:01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8180L 802.11b MAC (rev 20) ... so I know at least something "sees" the card in the slot, and that it appears to use the RTL8180 chip. I've found a driver "ndiswrapper" that's supposed to work with the RTL8180 (at http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/ there's a link to Debian packages). I downloaded the ndiswrapper packages and installed them (though I am beginning to think there is something I've missed here); now with the command "ndiswrapper -l" I get "Installed ndis drivers: net8180". In some of the info pages I look at I see references to "wlan0" device, but I can't find that device in my system ("ifconfig" etc.). That's why I'm not sure if the driver setup is complete. Ah-ha! Maybe this needs to be compiled into the kernel -- if so, how do I do that? The network does work OK with a Linksys Ethernet (wired) card as "eth0". Anyone with any experience with setting up wireless cards? Thanks for any hints! Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From david at acz.org Tue Aug 3 10:46:07 2004 From: david at acz.org (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux References: <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com><006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20040803020248.GA28165@dad1> Message-ID: <001c01c47970$fe2fa590$0201a8c0@brinstar> Karl Bongers writes: > So your calling Python and TK complete crap? Did you see those screenshots? It looks horrible. Maybe it looks better on X11, but I doubt that. Python is excellent. I use it often and have released software for it written in it. If you had read my first email in this thread, you would see that the last two suggestions I made were for Python. > I thought it was better than your suggestion for winelib, kylix, QT. If he already has a working application that he wants to run on Linux, then winelib is the most efficient choice. Kylix is the best RAD available for Linux development. That isn't surprising, considering the Windows version is the best RAD available for Windows development. My last suggestion was wxPython, not Qt. Though, Qt would be a fine choice if you only want to run on X11. wxWidgets is probably the best choice for quickly developing a professional cross platform application. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Mon Aug 2 14:30:34 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> Message-ID: <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> I'll throw this out since noone else has... with Java you have your choice of multiple free and commercial IDEs that run on Windows and Linux. You could develop on Linux OR on Windows and then deploy on either or both. I am familar with both JBuilder and Eclipse. Both are excellent IDEs, however only JBuilder will give you a Visual Basic like experience, because the last time I checked Eclipse did not have a GUI painter. http://www.borland.com/jbuilder http://www.eclipse.org I feel the need to point out that Java compiles considerably faster then C/C++. On a decent PC there will be a hardly noticeable pause for a small application. I personally would not leap from the Java camp to Perl/Python camp because of compile time worries. There could definitely be other reasons though. One drawback to using Java is the standard GUI toolkit, Swing, is quite a bit more complex than Visual Basic and even QT. You could also use IBM's GUI toolkit SWT, but I have no personal experience and thus cannot comment. As an aside, I have experience with the KDE/QT IDE KDevelop, but I think you will be dissappointed in it since you are used to Visual Basic. It's definitely better than VI though! :) Mike Bresnahan -------- Quoting Patrick McCabe : > I have been using Linux for a few years now, but all my software > development has been for Windows (MFC and VB). We finally have a > customer who wants to use Linux. > > What tools/development environments are available for developing GUI > apps in Linux? Favorites? > > What we need to do is not very complicated -- something comparable to a > simple VB app on Windows. > > Thanks > Patrick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Aug 3 11:03:59 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad C. Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <001c01c47970$fe2fa590$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20040803020248.GA28165@dad1> <001c01c47970$fe2fa590$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20040803160358.GB5298@wookimus.net> Karl> So your calling Python and TK complete crap? David> Did you see those screenshots? It looks horrible. Maybe it David> looks better on X11, but I doubt that. I concur. TK is an awful wiget library. It's functional but not "pretty". Karl> I thought it was better than your suggestion for winelib, kylix, QT. Those suggestions are all very good suggestions. ;-) -- Chad Walstrom | a.k.a. ^chewie http://www.wookimus.net/ | s.k.a. gunnarr _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue Aug 3 11:26:44 2004 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> References: <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com> <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> Message-ID: <20040803162644.GA13141@penguinpackets.com> On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 10:59:21PM -0500, David Phillips wrote: > Kelly Black writes: > > easygui: > > http://www.ferg.org/easygui/ > > It might be easy, but it's very limited, looks horrible and the author > doesn't know how to screenshot a window on Windows (alt-prtscr) nor knows > how to crop images. It is limited. It does not make pretty dialogs. Not sure what the screen-shot comment was good for. The other comments are valid. > > There are good, easy to use development tools available for Windows that > allow programmers to efficiently create professional quality applications. > Suggesting software like this to developers familiar with Windows > development tools is not going to make them want to develop for Linux. All > it does is make them think that the only available Linux tools are complete > crap. I was not trying to suggest that it was the only option. The list exists for sharing of information, not to stifle it. Just because it was not your cup of tea or did not measure up to your standards does not mean it wont be useful to someone else. 73's Kelly KB0GBJ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From admin at lctn.org Tue Aug 3 11:55:48 2004 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl upgrade Message-ID: <099a01c4797a$b9fb9460$8e0115ac@DELL2> A while back I attempted to do a perl upgrade and ended up with two versions, which caused me a lot of headaches. I am helping a friend out and do not want to cause him any undo problems. He is running redhat 8 with perl-5-8.0-55 installed as an rpm. Will a simple rpm -Uvh of the newest perl rpm work, or do I have to use an older version for redhat 8? Maybe there is more to consider?? Raymond Norton LCTN admin@lctn.org To Infinity and beyond! --Buzz Lightyear _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Aug 3 12:09:50 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup In-Reply-To: <410FA701.5050603@tcq.net>; from jkjones@tcq.net on Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 09:53:53AM -0500 References: <410FA701.5050603@tcq.net> Message-ID: <20040803120950.A9797@thinkunix.net> Kraig Jones wrote: > I'm trying to set up a wireless card on an older Thinkpad 380Z. I've > found lots of bits and pieces of information in help files and HOW-TOs, > but I must be missing some step of the process. Can anyone give an > overview of how to set up a wireless pc card? > > I have Debian "testing" version, kernel 2.4.25-1-386. The wireless card > is a Trendnet TEW-226PC cardbus PC card. I have no experience with that particular card but I've had good luck with the linux-wlan-ng[1] drivers. My basic procedure for laptops has been: 1. compile your kernel from source, remove all PCMCIA drivers from the kernel. 2. compile pcmcia-cs 3. compile linux-wlan-ng There are Debian source packages for kernel-source, pcmcia-cs, and linux-wlan-ng. You can use "apt-get source ". See the Debian docs for more on building packages from source. [1] http://www.linux-wlan.org/docs/wlan_adapters.html.gz -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Tue Aug 3 11:58:02 2004 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Aug 3 12:36:09 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642DD@ipserver2.interplastic.com> I think this might do the trick. I ran across it in another mail list the other day. http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ Ryan ________________________________ From: Keith Bachman [mailto:kcbnac@bnac.biz] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:58 AM To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? For my high school (That I still work for - despite having graduated) we are setting up 66 new laptops with Windows XP. I would like to use Norton Ghost, but due to costs, can't. What other programs are out there (preferably our favorite type - GPL etc licensed) that will easily clone partitions, and also can be run from a CD, and how would I go about doing this? (NTFS required - others are extra bonuses) Bonus points go to the program that can be scripted to run off a CD automagically. Keith Bachman _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jsievert at jsievert.net Tue Aug 3 12:35:14 2004 From: jsievert at jsievert.net (Jason Sievert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091554514.23254.26.camel@jsievert.rorke.com> Partimage. NTFS is listed at expermental but I have used it here with out an issue. Also check out the SystemRescueCD, it is a boot disk with it loaded. Jason On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 11:58, Keith Bachman wrote: > For my high school (That I still work for ? despite having graduated) > we are setting up 66 new laptops with Windows XP. I would like to use > Norton Ghost, but due to costs, can?t. > > > > What other programs are out there (preferably our favorite type ? GPL > etc licensed) that will easily clone partitions, and also can be run > from a CD, and how would I go about doing this? (NTFS required ? > others are extra bonuses) > > > > Bonus points go to the program that can be scripted to run off a CD > automagically. > > > > Keith Bachman > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 12:45:40 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <20040803160358.GB5298@wookimus.net> References: <20040803020248.GA28165@dad1> <001c01c47970$fe2fa590$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20040803160358.GB5298@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <16655.53060.844570.96085@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Chad" == Chad C Walstrom writes: Karl> So your calling Python and TK complete crap? David> Did you see those screenshots? It looks horrible. Maybe it David> looks better on X11, but I doubt that. Chad> I concur. TK is an awful wiget library. It's functional but not Chad> "pretty". True. But Tk is eminently scriptable. wxWindows is OK, but only if you like python. GTk, I dunno. Don't have any experience with perlGTk, or even know how mature it is. BTW, is Tk really necessarily ugly? Or do you just have to do some clever X resource editing to make it look good? I recall having someone bellyache about a graphics toolkit I used once, but when I looked, all I had to do was tweak some settings so that I got good fonts instead of ugly ones, anc I got roundtangles instead of ugly, pointy rectangular shapes... I think the Tk default fonts tend to be *extremely* ugly. If you're willing to use C++ then you have a wider range of options, but it sounds like overkill in response to the original question (which offered VB as a point of comparison). R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 12:48:39 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "michaelb" == michaelb writes: michaelb> I'll throw this out since noone else has... with Java michaelb> you have your choice of multiple free and commercial michaelb> IDEs that run on Windows and Linux. You could develop michaelb> on Linux OR on Windows and then deploy on either or michaelb> both. I am familar with both JBuilder and Eclipse. michaelb> Both are excellent IDEs, however only JBuilder will give michaelb> you a Visual Basic like experience, because the last michaelb> time I checked Eclipse did not have a GUI painter. OK, here's my troll response. Java: yuck. 1. Development is every bit as nitpicky and time-consuming as C++. Give me an interpreter or give me death! 2. Pig slow. 3. Write once, run everywhere. After you've installed about forty-two versions of the JVM and jar files that work with your app, because Sun and everybody else change the libraries every twenty minutes. Now let me see, does that run on 1.4.2 or only 1.3.1? Oh, you developed it to be portable with a PDA, so it needs 1.1.8? AAAACK. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:09:01 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <20040803162644.GA13141@penguinpackets.com> References: <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com> <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20040803162644.GA13141@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040803110979118f9b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:26:44 -0500, Kelly Black wrote: > It is limited. It does not make pretty dialogs. Not sure what the > screen-shot comment was good for. The other comments are valid. My point is that the whole thing looks mediocre at best. Do you want to use a poorly laid out GUI written by someone who can't even take a decent looking screenshot? -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:43:56 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642DD@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642DD@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0408031143a6aec30@mail.gmail.com> It's a hack, and may or may not be suitable, but this is what I've used doing forensic images: On the server: dd if=/dev/hda | tar czvO - | nc dd to stdout piped to tar, compressing, to stdout (-O) piped to netcat to your destination. On the client: nc -l -p -w 10 | tar zxvO - | dd of=/dev/hda nc listening on port number waiting 10 secs for timeout/EOF. This is piped to tar, unzipping and extracting piped to dd, written to /dev/hda. You will have partition size issues if the drives don't match, but some KNOPPIX distros include NTFS rw support, and could do /dev/hda1 in both instances then. You could also just pipe a tgz raw image taken once, rather than reading live from the image drive, which would speed it up a tiny bit. (This is fast as it is, since you're compressing/sending/decompressing on the fly.) You could probably even look into multicasting (I've never used this, personally) to do all the workstations at once. (maybe one extra pipe??) Of course, I'm sure there are a multitude of smoother solutions. On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:36:09 -0500 , rware@interplastic.com wrote: > I think this might do the trick. I ran across it in another mail list the other day. > http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ > > Ryan > > ________________________________ > > From: Keith Bachman [mailto:kcbnac@bnac.biz] > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:58 AM > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? > > > > > For my high school (That I still work for - despite having graduated) we are setting up 66 new laptops with Windows XP. I would like to use Norton Ghost, but due to costs, can't. > > What other programs are out there (preferably our favorite type - GPL etc licensed) that will easily clone partitions, and also can be run from a CD, and how would I go about doing this? (NTFS required - others are extra bonuses) > > Bonus points go to the program that can be scripted to run off a CD automagically. > > Keith Bachman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Tue Aug 3 14:10:38 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup Message-ID: I couldn't figure out from your post what Linux driver you need to install into the kernel. We need to know what wireless chipset is being used (example: prism, orthinco) I went to the trendnet website and noticed that they have linux drivers for older cards that use the ADMtek ADM8211 Linux driver. It may mean that you can use the ADMtek ADM8211 Linux driver to get your system to work. Take a look at http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/AdmTek I looked under Debian and couldn't find a ADM8211 package, so you will have to build the module from source. The linux-wlan-ng is used for the prism chipset. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: Kraig Jones [mailto:jkjones@tcq.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:54 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup I'm trying to set up a wireless card on an older Thinkpad 380Z. I've found lots of bits and pieces of information in help files and HOW-TOs, but I must be missing some step of the process. Can anyone give an overview of how to set up a wireless pc card? I have Debian "testing" version, kernel 2.4.25-1-386. The wireless card is a Trendnet TEW-226PC cardbus PC card. With the command "lspci -v" I get: 0000:01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8180L 802.11b MAC (rev 20) ... so I know at least something "sees" the card in the slot, and that it appears to use the RTL8180 chip. I've found a driver "ndiswrapper" that's supposed to work with the RTL8180 (at http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/ there's a link to Debian packages). I downloaded the ndiswrapper packages and installed them (though I am beginning to think there is something I've missed here); now with the command "ndiswrapper -l" I get "Installed ndis drivers: net8180". In some of the info pages I look at I see references to "wlan0" device, but I can't find that device in my system ("ifconfig" etc.). That's why I'm not sure if the driver setup is complete. Ah-ha! Maybe this needs to be compiled into the kernel -- if so, how do I do that? The network does work OK with a Linksys Ethernet (wired) card as "eth0". Anyone with any experience with setting up wireless cards? Thanks for any hints! Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Tue Aug 3 14:21:37 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 14:34:32 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914f813c04080312344bc2f445@mail.gmail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffery Rasmussen Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:21:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? To: TCLUG Mailing List Don't forget to run sysprep on all of the machines before you image them. You can use the nc command mentioned to send the partimage image across a network. partimage will be more forgiving for different hard drive sizes than using dd. Good to know; I'll look into partimage next time I'm doing some admin-ish imaging. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at myrealbox.com Tue Aug 3 13:45:33 2004 From: kcbnac at myrealbox.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Semi-Offtopic] New User Training.... Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 15:39:52 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:16 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "MikeB" == michaelb writes: >> 1. Development is every bit as nitpicky and time-consuming as C++. >> Give me an interpreter or give me death! >> >> 2. Pig slow. >> >> 3. Write once, run everywhere. After you've installed about >> forty-two versions of the JVM and jar files that work with your >> app, because Sun and everybody else change the libraries every >> twenty minutes. Now let me see, does that run on 1.4.2 or only >> 1.3.1? Oh, you developed it to be portable with a PDA, so it >> needs 1.1.8? AAAACK. MikeB> I've done as much C/C++ development as Java development over the last decade MikeB> and I completely disagree with all three of these points, but I feel it would MikeB> be a waste of effort to argue. MikeB> Let me switch subjects instead, why is a negative attitude MikeB> towards Java so prevalent on this list? Java is backed by MikeB> a UNIX vendor, it is a direct competitor to Microsoft's MikeB> development platforms, and there are zillions of Open MikeB> Source Java projects. It surprises me that the technology MikeB> doesn't get welcomed with open arms here. Well, I'm not sure how to answer your question, since I gave three reasons already! Java's portability seems to me to be oversold; at any rate, as a USER of apps, I hate apps written in Java. At worst, it's a pain to get them working because the environment isn't as standard as it should be. At best, they always seem to be ugly as sin, because Java isn't successful in papering over the differences in appearance across multiple platforms. As a developer, I don't like Java because it seems to me to hit a low point in the tradeoff curve between interpreted and compiled languages (rigid like compiled, yet slow) and between high-level and low-level languages (OK, so it has garbage collection, but I still have to interact with far too many objects to do even the simplest things). R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Aug 3 15:48:36 2004 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: <914f813c04080312344bc2f445@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You don't have to use NTFS really. You could setup Windows XP on FAT32 for your image, and then once the image is copied to the harddrive of your laptop run: convert c: /fs:ntfs /x (You might be prompted to rebot the machine...I'm sure there is a way to fully automate this...maybe pipe a Y to it or something hmmm....) When you figure out how to get convert running fully automated, run: shutdown -r -m %computername% -t 10 -f -du:01:01 -c "Convert C to NTFS" Windows XP will then reboot. As you will only be dealing with NTFS after imaging the PC, you should get a little more flexiblity in what imaging soultion you pick. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Tue Aug 3 16:01:04 2004 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup In-Reply-To: <410FA701.5050603@tcq.net> Message-ID: Be aware that if you do use the ndiswrapper setup, your card will not necissarily operate to it's full capicity. ndis drivers are intended to be used as network boot drivers...they have enough to get a functional network so that you can do things like automatic network installs. If ndiswrapper is your only choice...well it's your only choice because the card maker hasn't released specs so a native open source driver can be made. Personally, I'd avoid any card that doesn't have native drivers if at all possible. There are supported 54g wireless cards if that's what you're after, you just have to be picky when buying hardware. A few links that may help: http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~rbell/Realtek8180.html http://www.realtek.com.tw (seems to have a binary only kernel driver) Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 15:55:01 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <20040803020248.GA28165@dad1> References: <20040802012525.GA8177@penguinpackets.com> <006501c4790e$420f79b0$0201a8c0@brinstar> <20040803020248.GA28165@dad1> Message-ID: <1091566501.410ffba53222a@webmail.real-time.com> > > There are good, easy to use development tools available for Windows that > > allow programmers to efficiently create professional quality applications. > > Thats wonderful, but he wants to program for Linux. That statement is somewhat of an anacronism. Is has become very common to develop Java applications on Wintel PCs and deploy them on UNIX servers; so common that I don't know of anyone doing it differently. I don't see any reason why one couldn't do the other way around too. The deployment operating system is becoming less and less important to enterprise developers. Even .NET has the same possibility, although I don't know of anyone deploying .NET apps on UNIX. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 15:29:55 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> > 1. Development is every bit as nitpicky and time-consuming as C++. > Give me an interpreter or give me death! > > 2. Pig slow. > > 3. Write once, run everywhere. After you've installed about > forty-two versions of the JVM and jar files that work with your > app, because Sun and everybody else change the libraries every > twenty minutes. Now let me see, does that run on 1.4.2 or only > 1.3.1? Oh, you developed it to be portable with a PDA, so it > needs 1.1.8? AAAACK. I've done as much C/C++ development as Java development over the last decade and I completely disagree with all three of these points, but I feel it would be a waste of effort to argue. Let me switch subjects instead, why is a negative attitude towards Java so prevalent on this list? Java is backed by a UNIX vendor, it is a direct competitor to Microsoft's development platforms, and there are zillions of Open Source Java projects. It surprises me that the technology doesn't get welcomed with open arms here. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Aug 3 16:08:33 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Semi-Offtopic] New User Training.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20704.12.47.38.130.1091567313.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Do they understand anything at all about computers? It sounds kind of hokey, but you could try telling them that an Internet browser is sort of like a TV set in that it lets them see what's "on" the Internet. The URL box is where you pick the "channel," and in order to find what different "channels" are available, you scan the TV Guide. In this case, that would be Google (or whatever) where they enter topical key words. It's worth a try... > ... snipped ... > > > What would you guys suggest starting these guys out on, and any tips or > suggestions, as well as any websites that you've found (or made) in > assisting with this ('Beginners Guide to Using Computers' etc) > > > > ... snipped ... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Aug 3 16:01:07 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, > convert c: /fs:ntfs /x Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rbentz at dunwoody.edu Tue Aug 3 16:12:46 2004 From: rbentz at dunwoody.edu (rbentz@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Resizing partitions Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD032580FE@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> On the heels of Keith's question about imaging I am reminded of resizing partitions that I will be doing soon. Is there a tool in the GPL/GNU category for resizing an NTFS/EXT3/EXT2 partition? I have a need (thanks to my IT/finance dept unwillingness to help with $$ and config upfront) to resize a series of HDD partitions to allow space for additional OS's (student lab environment). The machines I get always have the whole HDD used and I've found an older version of drive image but it can not resize EXT3. Rob Bentz _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Aug 3 16:08:50 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD8770F1@owa.compellent.com> I think the tool you use must be suited to the problem you are trying to solve. For some projects, Java may be too much to hassle with. I simple python program will do. In other cases, Java is perfectly acceptable. It has the perfect position between high and low level. IBM's SWT may be the ticket to giving your application a little more speed and beauty. It may trade off a little of the portability though. Yet in another case altogether, C++/Native is the only way to go. You need absolutely time critical information. You don't really want your missile guidance software pausing for a garbage collection (I know, not a GUI, but it's just an example!) To say that any method... "Give me an interpreter or give me death!" may be stretching things a little far. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of rpgoldman@real-time.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 3:40 PM To: michaelb@real-time.com Cc: tclug-list Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux >>>>> "MikeB" == michaelb writes: >> 1. Development is every bit as nitpicky and time-consuming as C++. >> Give me an interpreter or give me death! >> >> 2. Pig slow. >> >> 3. Write once, run everywhere. After you've installed about >> forty-two versions of the JVM and jar files that work with your >> app, because Sun and everybody else change the libraries every >> twenty minutes. Now let me see, does that run on 1.4.2 or only >> 1.3.1? Oh, you developed it to be portable with a PDA, so it >> needs 1.1.8? AAAACK. MikeB> I've done as much C/C++ development as Java development over the last decade MikeB> and I completely disagree with all three of these points, but I feel it would MikeB> be a waste of effort to argue. MikeB> Let me switch subjects instead, why is a negative attitude MikeB> towards Java so prevalent on this list? Java is backed by MikeB> a UNIX vendor, it is a direct competitor to Microsoft's MikeB> development platforms, and there are zillions of Open MikeB> Source Java projects. It surprises me that the technology MikeB> doesn't get welcomed with open arms here. Well, I'm not sure how to answer your question, since I gave three reasons already! Java's portability seems to me to be oversold; at any rate, as a USER of apps, I hate apps written in Java. At worst, it's a pain to get them working because the environment isn't as standard as it should be. At best, they always seem to be ugly as sin, because Java isn't successful in papering over the differences in appearance across multiple platforms. As a developer, I don't like Java because it seems to me to hit a low point in the tradeoff curve between interpreted and compiled languages (rigid like compiled, yet slow) and between high-level and low-level languages (OK, so it has garbage collection, but I still have to interact with far too many objects to do even the simplest things). R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rbentz at dunwoody.edu Tue Aug 3 16:18:49 2004 From: rbentz at dunwoody.edu (rbentz@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD032580FF@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Sorry but it's a one way trip from FAT to NTFS. At least using the convert tool that is bundled with windoze. > > > convert c: /fs:ntfs /x > > Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like > this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... > > > -Yaron > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Tue Aug 3 16:22:51 2004 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No, convert does not have an option to convert TO fat. On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Yaron wrote: > > convert c: /fs:ntfs /x > > Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like > this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Tue Aug 3 16:19:10 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] Message-ID: Nope. It is one-way. You can read NTFS from linux or use a couple beta tools to write NTFS. One uses the Windows drivers which should mean it won't mess up your hard drive. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: Yaron [mailto:jethro@freakzilla.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:01 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] Hey, > convert c: /fs:ntfs /x Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 16:31:31 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> > Java's portability seems to me to be oversold; at any rate, as a USER > of apps, I hate apps written in Java. At worst, it's a pain to get > them working because the environment isn't as standard as it should > be. At best, they always seem to be ugly as sin, because Java isn't > successful in papering over the differences in appearance across > multiple platforms. Everything put out by software companies is oversold, but that doesn't make the actual product bad. You can't ask a product to live up to its sales and marketing hype. What you can do is compare it to competing technologies. Java is plainly much better for portable software than C, C++, or anything Microsoftish (Mono et al might change this). This is so true that is has completely changed the way enterprise developers work. It is now standard practice to develop enterprise Java applications on Windows and deploy them on UNIX servers. I don't know of any enterprise Java developers that develop using desktop UNIX, a terminal emulator, or a Windows-based X server. I definitely agree with you that many Java desktop GUI apps are ugly, but there are just as many ugly QT, GTK+, Motif, and TCL/TK desktop GUI apps that have a totally different look and feel as the rest of the KDE, GNOME, Windows, etc. desktop. Partly because of this problem, IBM wrote their own GUI toolkit (SWT) and wrote it in a way to make use of the native GUI tookit. The advantage is that it looks and feels more like the native platform. The disadvantage is that it supports only a subset of the platforms that Swing does. I should point out also that JDK 1.4.2 has a GTK+ look-and-feel to make Java apps that fit in well with GNOME, however I have not seen it in action. There are some quite wonderful Java GUI apps. Have you used Eclipse (SWT) or JBuilder (Swing)? > As a developer, I don't like Java because it seems to me to hit a low > point in the tradeoff curve between interpreted and compiled languages > (rigid like compiled, yet slow) and between high-level and low-level > languages (OK, so it has garbage collection, but I still have to > interact with far too many objects to do even the simplest things). It's hard to interpret this opinion. What are you comparing Java too? What is your language/platform of choice? What type of software do you develop? Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 16:34:49 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD8770F1@owa.compellent.com> References: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD8770F1@owa.compellent.com> Message-ID: <16656.1273.879895.815440@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ben" == Ben Neigebauer writes: Ben> To say that any method... "Give me an interpreter or give me Ben> death!" may be stretching things a little far. For me, it's true. If it has to be done in C++ (or Java), I'd rather it was outsourced! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 16:37:22 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <914f813c040803143740027b1c@mail.gmail.com> Patch your kernel to add writeable NTFS support. It works fairly well now, from what I've seen and read (and used, but I haven't used it extensively.) On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:01:07 -0500 (CDT), Yaron wrote: > Hey, > > > convert c: /fs:ntfs /x > > Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like > this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Tue Aug 3 17:09:36 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: <914f813c040803143740027b1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040803143740027b1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > Patch your kernel to add writeable NTFS support. It works fairly well > now, This isn't for 'me'... if it was MY machine I'd (A) have writable NTFS, and (B) Not have used NTFS in the first place (: This is for a non-power-user machine, and I don't want a "Yeah, this MIGHT trash your drive" thing. (: -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Aug 3 19:12:59 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Resizing partitions In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD032580FE@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD032580FE@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <1091578378.31721.12.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Aug 3 19:33:24 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20040802202024.GB1547@fandre.com> References: <20040701180946.GE3535@fandre.com> <20040731040302.GA9516@refried.org> <20040802202024.GB1547@fandre.com> Message-ID: <1091579604.31721.20.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Tue Aug 3 20:07:11 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (Ryan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1184.69.76.22.37.1091581631.squirrel@69.76.22.37> > Hey, > >> convert c: /fs:ntfs /x > > Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like > this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... > > > -Yaron > > -- Nope it's a one way trip to ntfs-ville because a:) Microsoft could give a rats butT if you can write to it from your Linux machine or your Knoppix cd. and b:) NTFS has a lot more security than FAT(16/32). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Tue Aug 3 20:21:58 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41103A36.4050704@tcq.net> Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: >I couldn't figure out from your post what Linux driver you need to install >into the kernel. We need to know what wireless chipset is being used >(example: prism, orthinco) > > I think the chipset is Realtek 8180L. Google search for RTL8180L brought me to the "ndiswrapper" driver. It seems that the 8180L is used in some other wireless cards, including Linksys WPC-11v4 and Netgear MA521. >I looked under Debian and couldn't find a ADM8211 package, so you will have >to build the module from source. > >The linux-wlan-ng is used for the prism chipset. > > > Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) wrote: >Be aware that if you do use the ndiswrapper setup, your card will not >necissarily operate to it's full capicity. ndis drivers are intended to be >used as network boot drivers...they have enough to get a functional >network so that you can do things like automatic network installs. > >If ndiswrapper is your only choice...well it's your only choice because >the card maker hasn't released specs so a native open source driver can be >made. > >Personally, I'd avoid any card that doesn't have native drivers if at all >possible. There are supported 54g wireless cards if that's what you're >after, you just have to be picky when buying hardware. > > > I'm using this Trendnet card just because I happened to have it. Bought it, cheap, for a Win XP machine, then turned out I didn't need it. There may be other drivers that I haven't found, yet. Just ran across the ndiswrapper thing first. Trying to follow instructions I found at http://www.mung.net/~dude/howto/Wireless-Link-sys-WPC11.html -- but they're a bit confusing. Thanks for the help. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 20:33:10 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:29:55 -0500, michaelb@real-time.com wrote: > Let me switch subjects instead, why is a negative attitude towards Java so > prevalent on this list? Java is backed by a UNIX vendor, it is a direct > competitor to Microsoft's development platforms, and there are zillions of Open > Source Java projects. It surprises me that the technology doesn't get welcomed > with open arms here. Java isn't free. I can't install it on Debian or FreeBSD without jumping through hoops. There are plenty of other languages freely available for me to use, so why should I care about Java? And don't get me started on actually using an application written in Java. rpgoldman summed it up nicely. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 3 20:39:27 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "michaelb" == michaelb writes: >> As a developer, I don't like Java because it seems to me to hit a low >> point in the tradeoff curve between interpreted and compiled languages >> (rigid like compiled, yet slow) and between high-level and low-level >> languages (OK, so it has garbage collection, but I still have to >> interact with far too many objects to do even the simplest things). michaelb> It's hard to interpret this opinion. What are you michaelb> comparing Java too? What is your language/platform of michaelb> choice? What type of software do you develop? Language of choice for GUI is really to get someone else to do it. I do computer science research, so I like to be able to develop stuff quickly, and in as high a level language as I can get my hands on. Perl, Python, Common Lisp, ML are all good. I used to take others' word for it that rapid prototyping languages weren't up to delivery, but have now worked with enough people using Java and C++ that I no longer believe that. Plus tons of those people seemed to end up using Visual Basic! Supposedly with lower level languages you buy better run time with a big expenditure of more programmer time; but by and large I don't see the payoff as being worth it. YMMV, but for anything other than hard-core systems programming (including developing inner-loop libraries), C, C++, and even Java (although it's certainly easier than the first two) seem really masochistic. To directly address your points, Java doesn't seem that much better looking than Python + graphics libraries, but it's a ton more difficult to use. Sure, a lot of time you have to use what the PHB says you should use, and for that Java seems better than the other alternatives, but "best that a PHB will stomach doesn't seem good enough..." Have a look at some of Paul Graham's stuff; might turn upside-down the way you look at programming languages: http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Aug 3 21:02:09 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Java isn't free. I can't install it on Debian or FreeBSD without > jumping through hoops. There are plenty of other languages freely > available for me to use, so why should I care about Java? I'm not sure which definition of free you are using. You can download the JDK binaries and the _source code_ without paying a penny. You just can't distribute _modified_ versions of it without permission. I know I've simplified things, but that's the jist of it. There are also tons of completely Open Source Java software and much of what makes up the Java Development Kit got its start as an Open Source project (e.g. Xerxes, Xalan, Tomcat, ...). _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Tue Aug 3 21:24:54 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > Supposedly with lower level languages you buy better run time with a > big expenditure of more programmer time; but by and large I don't see > the payoff as being worth it. YMMV, but for anything other than > hard-core systems programming (including developing inner-loop > libraries), C, C++, and even Java (although it's certainly easier than > the first two) seem really masochistic. I guess I find it, well WEIRD, that you would consider Java as a low-level systems programming language. To me it is a very high level language. It runs on top of a virtual machine and you have zero direct access to the hardware. It has feature-full runtime metadata system, dynamic code swapping/generation/instrumentation, and garbage collection. Plus it has a whole host of IDEs offering GUI painters, code generation, documentation, profiling, and refactoring tools. In fact, it is plain terrible at systems programming. It's difficult to do things as simple as process control or determine if a file is executable. Perhaps my viewpoint is different because I programmed in C and C++ for several years before using Java. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Aug 3 22:52:27 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Semi-Offtopic] New User Training.... In-Reply-To: <20704.12.47.38.130.1091567313.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <20704.12.47.38.130.1091567313.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <41105D7B.7050103@visi.com> You need to evaluate where to start with these guys. They are in college, they are older (they know their minds), and they want to learn. What do you define as older, I'm 45 is that older? In my mind older is 70 or so. Your first meeting should be more informational then instructional, make sure they understand this going in to it. Have some refreshments and keep it relaxed. Ask some simple questions like... What's your professional background? From this question you will find out most of what you need to know. You also show you are interested in them as people, you need to have a different relationship then with a large class, more personal. What do you need to know about computers? If the answer to the first question is "I was a programmer" don't ask this one. Get to know each of them and you will find out what they need. It doesn't take to long to find out what a person likes and dislikes, what they need and want. You will also take some great experiences with you. When you know where they stand it will flow. Remember they are evaluating you as much as you are evaluating them. They have a connection to your bosses, boss. I wouldn't take this lightly if I were you. Sam Garrett Krueger wrote: >Do they understand anything at all about computers? It sounds kind of >hokey, but you could try telling them that an Internet browser is sort of >like a TV set in that it lets them see what's "on" the Internet. > >The URL box is where you pick the "channel," and in order to find what >different "channels" are available, you scan the TV Guide. In this case, >that would be Google (or whatever) where they enter topical key words. > >It's worth a try... > > > >>... snipped ... >> >> >>What would you guys suggest starting these guys out on, and any tips or >>suggestions, as well as any websites that you've found (or made) in >>assisting with this ('Beginners Guide to Using Computers' etc) >> >> >> >> ... snipped ... >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jack at jacku.com Tue Aug 3 23:14:46 2004 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200408032314.46788.jack@jacku.com> On Tuesday 03 August 2004 03:29 pm, michaelb@real-time.com wrote: > Let me switch subjects instead, why is a negative attitude towards Java so > prevalent on this list? Java is backed by a UNIX vendor, it is a direct > competitor to Microsoft's development platforms, and there are zillions of > Open Source Java projects. It surprises me that the technology doesn't get > welcomed with open arms here. > > Mike Well maybe we should look where some of the discussion started. There are a lot of people here who have used python and maybe, just maybe, that influences the opinion of Java. But hey, don't take my word for it. Some interesting links: Bruce Eckel on why he prefers python: http://www.artima.com/intv/aboutme.html Andy Hertzfeld quote: "Java was cool -- I could program twice as fast in Java as I could in C++. And now I can program twice as fast with Python as I can with Java." Link: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4550 It might just be that python is everything Java thinks it is. ;-) (FWIW I admit to being a Python bigot.) -- Jack Ungerleider jack@jacku.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Aug 4 00:10:21 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> (michaelb@real-time.com) References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> Message-ID: <200408040510.i745ALE15849@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >> 1. Development is every bit as nitpicky and time-consuming as C++. >> Give me an interpreter or give me death! >> >> 2. Pig slow. >> >> 3. Write once, run everywhere. After you've installed about >> forty-two versions of the JVM and jar files that work with your >> app, because Sun and everybody else change the libraries every >> twenty minutes. Now let me see, does that run on 1.4.2 or only >> 1.3.1? Oh, you developed it to be portable with a PDA, so it >> needs 1.1.8? AAAACK. Michael B. wrote: >I've done as much C/C++ development as Java development over the last decade >and I completely disagree with all three of these points, but I feel it would >be a waste of effort to argue. Java is the replacement for COBOL. Java is popular with management because it is above critical mass and thus won't become a dead language. It will probably last as long as COBOL has, but that doesn't make Java a technically good language anymore than COBOL was. >Let me switch subjects instead, why is a negative attitude towards Java so >prevalent on this list? Java is backed by a UNIX vendor, it is a direct >competitor to Microsoft's development platforms, and there are zillions >of Open Source Java projects. It surprises me that the technology >doesn't get welcomed with open arms here. Who voluntarily writes in the language that is the heir to COBOL? I don't know of anyone who would do that, except as a last resort to put bread on the table for his family. Why would anyone choose Java for an open source project? How much control over Java will Sun allow a developer now? If Java is broken, who gives permission to fix it? Python is a far better choice for purely technical reasons. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 01:20:54 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:18 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <853e1ecc04080323203f834b0f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:02:09 -0500, Mike Bresnahan wrote: > I'm not sure which definition of free you are using. You can download the > JDK binaries and the _source code_ without paying a penny. It's not DFSG free nor is it freely available. It can't be downloaded without first signing up and agreeing to a click through license. That means it can't even be installed from a FreeBSD port without manually downloading the JDK. If it's really free, show me a URL to the tarball. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Wed Aug 4 03:01:52 2004 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fw: [Linuxmovies-general] AqsisMovieProject Message-ID: <20040804030152.147fe870.tclug@solobanjo.com> I wanted to pass this along, in the hope that someone else local might be interested. |) |)enji ---------------------------------------- Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:31:43 -0400 From: "Brett W. McCoy" To: linuxmovies-general@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Linuxmovies-general] AqsisMovieProject A few of us have been conspiring on the Aqsis IRC channel (#aqsis on freenode), and have started the pre-planning stages of a short CG film produced entirely with open source/free-as-in-speech software. And by "entirely", we mean everything -- modelling, audio, editing, pre-production, etc. At the center of this, of course, will be Aqsis. Right now we are recruiting a full production team to help get this project off the ground. This means: * producer/project managers * script writers * modellers * animators * shader writers * editors/post-production * directors * sound design * music The first and most crucial thing we need is a high-level producer/project manager. We have a couple of the other positions filled, but we need someone who has the time and commitment to manage the entire project. Please visit http://aqsis.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/aqsiswiki.cgi/AqsisMovieProject for more details. If you want to volunteer, please sign up via the Wiki! -- Brett http://www.chapelperilous.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The UNIX philosophy basically involves giving you enough rope to hang yourself. And then a couple of feet more, just to be sure. ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by OSTG. Have you noticed the changes on Linux.com, ITManagersJournal and NewsForge in the past few weeks? Now, one more big change to announce. We are now OSTG- Open Source Technology Group. Come see the changes on the new OSTG site. www.ostg.com _______________________________________________ Linuxmovies-general mailing list Linuxmovies-general@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxmovies-general _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Aug 4 06:08:28 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642E3@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John T. Hoffoss [mailto:john.t.hoffoss@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:37 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] > > Patch your kernel to add writeable NTFS support. It works > fairly well now, from what I've seen and read (and used, but > I haven't used it > extensively.) > Fairly? As in expect some data loss/corruption? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Aug 4 06:19:49 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Wireless setup In-Reply-To: <410FA701.5050603@tcq.net> References: <410FA701.5050603@tcq.net> Message-ID: <20040804061949.A7976@baker.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 09:53:53AM -0500, Kraig Jones wrote: > I'm trying to set up a wireless card on an older Thinkpad 380Z. I've > found lots of bits and pieces of information in help files and HOW-TOs, > but I must be missing some step of the process. Can anyone give an > overview of how to set up a wireless pc card? > > I have Debian "testing" version, kernel 2.4.25-1-386. The wireless card > is a Trendnet TEW-226PC cardbus PC card. > > With the command "lspci -v" I get: > 0000:01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. > RTL8180L 802.11b MAC (rev 20) ... > so I know at least something "sees" the card in the slot, and that it > appears to use the RTL8180 chip. > > I've found a driver "ndiswrapper" that's supposed to work with the > RTL8180 (at http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/ there's a link to > Debian packages). I downloaded the ndiswrapper packages and installed > them (though I am beginning to think there is something I've missed > here); now with the command "ndiswrapper -l" I get "Installed ndis > drivers: net8180". > > In some of the info pages I look at I see references to "wlan0" device, > but I can't find that device in my system ("ifconfig" etc.). That's why > I'm not sure if the driver setup is complete. Ah-ha! Maybe this needs > to be compiled into the kernel -- if so, how do I do that? I think that you may need an alias line in /etc/modutils/aliases. I don't use ndiswrappers, but I think that you need a line like: alias wlan0 net8180 I believe wlan0 is just a "standard" name to simplify things due to the fact that there are dozens of different wireless drivers - just like eth0. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Aug 4 06:26:09 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1091618769.31721.29.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Aug 4 09:09:27 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: References: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike Bresnahan writes: >> Supposedly with lower level languages you buy better run time with a >> big expenditure of more programmer time; but by and large I don't see >> the payoff as being worth it. YMMV, but for anything other than >> hard-core systems programming (including developing inner-loop >> libraries), C, C++, and even Java (although it's certainly easier than >> the first two) seem really masochistic. Mike> I guess I find it, well WEIRD, that you would consider Java Mike> as a low-level systems programming language. To me it is a Mike> very high level language. It runs on top of a virtual Mike> machine and you have zero direct access to the hardware. It Mike> has feature-full runtime metadata system, dynamic code Mike> swapping/generation/instrumentation, and garbage collection. Mike> Plus it has a whole host of IDEs offering GUI painters, code Mike> generation, documentation, profiling, and refactoring tools. Mike> In fact, it is plain terrible at systems programming. It's Mike> difficult to do things as simple as process control or Mike> determine if a file is executable. Mike> Perhaps my viewpoint is different because I programmed in C Mike> and C++ for several years before using Java. Chacun a son gout. Here's someone's inflammatory assessment of Java. If it doesn't match your experience, feel free to ignore it. But it's a good rant: "Object-oriented programming generates a lot of what looks like work. Back in the days of fanfold, there was a type of programmer who would only put five or ten lines of code on a page, preceded by twenty lines of elaborately formatted comments. Object-oriented programming is like crack for these people: it lets you incorporate all this scaffolding right into your source code. Something that a Lisp hacker might handle by pushing a symbol onto a list becomes a whole file of classes and methods. So it is a good tool if you want to convince yourself, or someone else, that you are doing a lot of work." --- http://www.paulgraham.com/noop.html Every time I think about using Java, I am astounded by what a blizzard of objects I have to grapple with to do what seems to me to be the simplest thing. For example, the difference between what it takes to get something displayed on the screen in Java + Swing and perl + tk, or tcl/tk. For example, the test scroll pane thing, draws a picture and lets you scroll over it, which I opened at random to in a Swing book, consumes about 30 lines. That's approximately as much as is consumed by a sample graph editor (micro-Visio) in Ousterhout's Tcl book. And you just let the wish interpreter have at it, modding it as you go. No heavy lifting with the IDE, the editor, etc. Tcl isn't really to my taste, but that's a pretty good example of what I mean by a high-level languge. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 09:18:57 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes Message-ID: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to untar a file and I get this error # tar -xf file.tar tar: Skipping to next header tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers Then it just sits there. Is there a way to fix that? Or is this file lost for good? -Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Aug 4 09:38:34 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Fedora Core 2 ftp install: system-config-packages asks for CD #3? In-Reply-To: <200407290412.i6T4CvD00442@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <200408041438.i74EcYm3016062@tundra.winternet.com> I initially complained about this problem to the list late last (7/28) Wednesday. Thursday evening, Matthew Hallacy offered to test the GUI tool I was using and "see what the problem is". Thank you for your offer, Matthew. Sorry, for not responding for several days. Here's a link to my original post (lacking the details provided below): http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2004-July/066791.html ------ I did a Fedora Core 2 ftp install and quite reasonably didn't request all packages to be installed. A few days later, I need a Fedora Core 2 package that wasn't initially installed. Gnome is the desktop. I look for a GUI in the default menu for gnome and see an use the following: System Settings -> Add/Remove Application It seems reasonable that the application this menu item starts can add and/or remove official Fedora Core 2 packages. After requesting the root password, selecting the above menu item starts /usr/bin/system-config-packages. Using system-config-packages, I select a Fedora Core 2 package for installation and request that the program install it. It requests that I insert Fedora Core 2 CD #3 in the CD-ROM drive!? I did a package level Fedora Core 2 ftp install. I don't have Fedora Core 2 CDs or even ISO images. Why should I be expected to have these, since I did an ftp install? Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Aug 4 10:00:55 2004 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux books and other reference material Message-ID: <1091631655.4110fa275a2fc@webmail.northlans.com> I've been collecting different on-line books and other Linux related material for a little while. Here is a link of what I have gathered so far. I have 12 on-line books, a few documents from IBM Labs and some LPI exam prep documents. http://www.linuxlans.com/linuxtutorials/index.html I'll continue to add documents and books as I come across them, but I am open to other suggestions and recommendations as well. And I know, some of the material is a bit dated. Enjoy Jim Streit ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Aug 4 10:32:28 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040804103228.A8928@baker.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:18:57AM -0500, Josh Close wrote: > I'm trying to untar a file and I get this error > > # tar -xf file.tar > > tar: Skipping to next header > tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers > > > Then it just sits there. Is there a way to fix that? Or is this file > lost for good? Well, for a first thing try: # tar -xvf file.tar and see if you get anymore useful info on what's going on. If that doesn't work try a non-gnu tar. Either on a Unix box if you have access, or download a different free tar - I beleive that there are at least a couple. I think that there is one called star from the maker of cdrecord. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Wed Aug 4 10:32:25 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD877144@owa.compellent.com> Shouldn't always base things on "how many lines of code it took" It's just the amount that has been pre-built for you. No matter what you think, no matter what language you are using, that's what it comes down to. In then end, it is always machine code executed on the processor whether you have used java, python, c++ to get there. It's all a matter of abstraction. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of rpgoldman@real-time.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:09 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux >>>>> "Mike" == Mike Bresnahan writes: >> Supposedly with lower level languages you buy better run time with a >> big expenditure of more programmer time; but by and large I don't see >> the payoff as being worth it. YMMV, but for anything other than >> hard-core systems programming (including developing inner-loop >> libraries), C, C++, and even Java (although it's certainly easier than >> the first two) seem really masochistic. Mike> I guess I find it, well WEIRD, that you would consider Java Mike> as a low-level systems programming language. To me it is a Mike> very high level language. It runs on top of a virtual Mike> machine and you have zero direct access to the hardware. It Mike> has feature-full runtime metadata system, dynamic code Mike> swapping/generation/instrumentation, and garbage collection. Mike> Plus it has a whole host of IDEs offering GUI painters, code Mike> generation, documentation, profiling, and refactoring tools. Mike> In fact, it is plain terrible at systems programming. It's Mike> difficult to do things as simple as process control or Mike> determine if a file is executable. Mike> Perhaps my viewpoint is different because I programmed in C Mike> and C++ for several years before using Java. Chacun a son gout. Here's someone's inflammatory assessment of Java. If it doesn't match your experience, feel free to ignore it. But it's a good rant: "Object-oriented programming generates a lot of what looks like work. Back in the days of fanfold, there was a type of programmer who would only put five or ten lines of code on a page, preceded by twenty lines of elaborately formatted comments. Object-oriented programming is like crack for these people: it lets you incorporate all this scaffolding right into your source code. Something that a Lisp hacker might handle by pushing a symbol onto a list becomes a whole file of classes and methods. So it is a good tool if you want to convince yourself, or someone else, that you are doing a lot of work." --- http://www.paulgraham.com/noop.html Every time I think about using Java, I am astounded by what a blizzard of objects I have to grapple with to do what seems to me to be the simplest thing. For example, the difference between what it takes to get something displayed on the screen in Java + Swing and perl + tk, or tcl/tk. For example, the test scroll pane thing, draws a picture and lets you scroll over it, which I opened at random to in a Swing book, consumes about 30 lines. That's approximately as much as is consumed by a sample graph editor (micro-Visio) in Ousterhout's Tcl book. And you just let the wish interpreter have at it, modding it as you go. No heavy lifting with the IDE, the editor, etc. Tcl isn't really to my taste, but that's a pretty good example of what I mean by a high-level languge. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 10:54:03 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <20040804103228.A8928@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> <20040804103228.A8928@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4a0cafe20408040854414eb7dc@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I tried it with -v also, and it just lists a directory and the file before it craps out. I tried using rar also and it got a lot farther, but no dice. -Josh On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:32:28 -0500, Jim Crumley wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 09:18:57AM -0500, Josh Close wrote: > > I'm trying to untar a file and I get this error > > > > # tar -xf file.tar > > > > tar: Skipping to next header > > tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers > > > > > > Then it just sits there. Is there a way to fix that? Or is this file > > lost for good? > > Well, for a first thing try: > # tar -xvf file.tar > and see if you get anymore useful info on what's going on. > > If that doesn't work try a non-gnu tar. Either on a Unix box if > you have access, or download a different free tar - I beleive > that there are at least a couple. I think that there is one > called star from the maker of cdrecord. > > -- > Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ > Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Aug 4 11:48:45 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux books and other reference material In-Reply-To: <1091631655.4110fa275a2fc@webmail.northlans.com> References: <1091631655.4110fa275a2fc@webmail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <20040804114845.00003577@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:00:55 -0500 jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: > > I've been collecting different on-line books and other Linux related > material for a little while. Here is a link of what I have gathered > so far. I have 12 on-line books, a few documents from IBM Labs and > some LPI exam prep documents. > > http://www.linuxlans.com/linuxtutorials/index.html > > I'll continue to add documents and books as I come across them, but > I am open to > other suggestions and recommendations as well. And I know, some of > the material is a bit dated. Here's and entire book online: http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute-home.html Also, on the Linux Database book I wasn't able to access any of the chapters. :( Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Aug 4 11:56:21 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:19 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe20408040854414eb7dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> <20040804103228.A8928@baker.space.umn.edu> <4a0cafe20408040854414eb7dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040804115621.A9095@baker.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 10:54:03AM -0500, Josh Close wrote: > Yes, I tried it with -v also, and it just lists a directory and the > file before it craps out. I tried using rar also and it got a lot > farther, but no dice. Is the tar file gzipped of bzipped ? Sometimes the suffixes get lost. Try "file" on it? Also, from googling on your error messages it looks like this sometimes happens if a hardrive it failing. Trying copying the tar somewhere else. Finally, try opeing it up in an editor. If there are any text files in the tar and its not compressed, you should be able to look around a little. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jradocay at scholarshipamerica.org Wed Aug 4 12:01:00 2004 From: jradocay at scholarshipamerica.org (Jason Radocay) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux books and other reference material Message-ID: <8DDE1AB31DDD2D47A222458FCE2B2E012B11A6@edinadc1.samn.local> In my studies I've found the Redhat ES documents a thorough and professional resource. While some of the docs refer to Redhat specific tools and architectures, most of the topics can be applied to any distro. Jason Redhat ES docs: - Red Hat Enterprise Linux Introduction to System Administration - Red Hat Enterprise Linux System Administration Guide - Red Hat Enterprise Linux Reference Guide - Red Hat Enterprise Linux Security Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/ (w/ links to PDF, rmp, html tarball) Maximum RPM http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/ -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Josh Trutwin Sent: Wed 8/4/2004 11:48 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux books and other reference material On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:00:55 -0500 jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: > > I've been collecting different on-line books and other Linux related > material for a little while. Here is a link of what I have gathered > so far. I have 12 on-line books, a few documents from IBM Labs and > some LPI exam prep documents. > > http://www.linuxlans.com/linuxtutorials/index.html > > I'll continue to add documents and books as I come across them, but > I am open to > other suggestions and recommendations as well. And I know, some of > the material is a bit dated. Here's and entire book online: http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute-home.html Also, on the Linux Database book I wasn't able to access any of the chapters. :( Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From narshe at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 13:31:59 2004 From: narshe at gmail.com (Josh Close) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <20040804115621.A9095@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> <20040804103228.A8928@baker.space.umn.edu> <4a0cafe20408040854414eb7dc@mail.gmail.com> <20040804115621.A9095@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4a0cafe2040804113148c05934@mail.gmail.com> I don't think it's the hard drive. I moved it from a windows box to linux and had the same problem. I'll take a close look here, but for the mean time, I'm trying to get a new file. Thanks. -Josh On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:56:21 -0500, Jim Crumley wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 10:54:03AM -0500, Josh Close wrote: > > Yes, I tried it with -v also, and it just lists a directory and the > > file before it craps out. I tried using rar also and it got a lot > > farther, but no dice. > > Is the tar file gzipped of bzipped ? Sometimes the suffixes get > lost. Try "file" on it? Also, from googling on your error > messages it looks like this sometimes happens if a hardrive it > failing. Trying copying the tar somewhere else. Finally, try > opeing it up in an editor. If there are any text files in the > tar and its not compressed, you should be able to look around a > little. > > > > -- > Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) > crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ > Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Aug 4 13:49:54 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD877144@owa.compellent.com> References: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD877144@owa.compellent.com> Message-ID: <16657.12242.106726.706130@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ben" == Ben Neigebauer writes: Ben> Shouldn't always base things on "how many lines of code it took" Ben> It's just the amount that has been pre-built for you. No Ben> matter what you think, no matter what language you are using, Ben> that's what it comes down to. Ben> In then end, it is always machine code executed on the Ben> processor whether you have used java, python, c++ to get Ben> there. It's all a matter of abstraction. Uh. I don't think I agree with this at all. Unless a system provides unacceptably large resource utilization or unacceptably slow response time, I don't care about the machine code executed on the processor. I actually DO care about how many lines of code it took (as a coarse proxy measure of how difficult it was to produce the code). Your argument above (I could be misinterpreting it) seems to me to be like saying, "don't feel so smug about how easy it was to buy that car. You might as well have made it yourself in your garage. After all, SOMEBODY had to weld the parts together." That argument wouldn't change my opinion about how great it was that I could buy a car instead of hand-crafting one. Of course it's a matter of how much has been pre-built. But unless you ENJOY building the sort of stuff that's been pre-built (my hat's off to people who hack xlib, but it gives me the screaming meemies), or you don't like what the pre-builders have provided, you SHOULD be happy with something where more is pre-built. The only alternative interpretation I can come up with is that you mean that it's not the language, it's the libraries, and a low-level language with a lot of libraries is just as good as a high-level one. Is THAT what you meant? That seems like a much more reasonable claim (I'm still inclined to disagree, of course! :->). R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 14:02:06 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642E3@ipserver2.interplastic.com> References: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642E3@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040804120234e5bc3b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 06:08:28 -0500 , rware@interplastic.com wrote: > Fairly? As in expect some data loss/corruption? Well, I've seen people on Gentoo and KNOPPIX-STD boards who've not had problems using NTFS write support on systems that dual-boot or a Windows PC w/a KNOPPIX CD. But I don't know how great it is. There's one NTFS-write method (someone else mentioned it already) that pulls MS' ntfs.sys and uses calls to that through wine for NTFS access. You can set it up to bootstrap (sorta) with a read-only ntfs module, copy ntfs.sys to memory, unmount & remount with the MS ntfs.sys/wine. I've never done this, though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 13:57:06 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] No July TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <914f813c0408011418141ddb39@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040701180946.GE3535@fandre.com> <20040731040302.GA9516@refried.org> <914f813c0408011418141ddb39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040804115716b424d4@mail.gmail.com> This (obviously) makes no sense to anyone but Clay, as I didn't realize I responded to the wrong message, but I had a potential speaker but have heard no confirmation from him yet. (In case anyone cared...) On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:18:24 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > I still have heard nothing. I'll track the guy's email addy down again > and ask him. (He never replied.) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 14:14:16 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040804121418c34c99@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:33:10 -0500, David Phillips wrote: > Java isn't free. I can't install it on Debian or FreeBSD without > jumping through hoops. There are plenty of other languages freely > available for me to use, so why should I care about Java? Java is a language, and is free. A JDK from Sun requires hoops. (iirc, a web form) The Blackdown JDK does not, though it isn't GPL'd. > And don't get me started on actually using an application written in > Java. rpgoldman summed it up nicely. No comment :) I've had some great experiences, and I've had some nasty ones. Same as anything else. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From WordenCar at aol.com Wed Aug 4 14:30:00 2004 From: WordenCar at aol.com (WordenCar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Travan TR-3 tar tape to CD transfer of files Message-ID: <1e8.26d968c2.2e429338@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Aug 4 18:47:20 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1091663240.31721.34.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Aug 4 19:29:15 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1091665755.13855.12.camel@bigtime> > Have a look at some of Paul Graham's stuff; might turn upside-down the > way you look at programming languages: > > http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html Or just preach to the choir of LISP weenies who live in a magical fantasy happy land of theory, and make those who actually produce usable products go "Hey, what a LISP weenie that guy is!". (note: flamebait) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Aug 4 19:41:44 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:20 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091666504.13855.24.camel@bigtime> > Can you convert the other way round? (ie, NTFS to FAT32?) I'd kinda like > this Windows partition writable form the Linux end... MS won't let you do this. But Partition magic can do this. At least its supposed to. I tried to do it with an older version (7.0 I think, first one that supported XP's version of NTFS...) and it just barfed, complaining cryptically about compressed files or something. (didn't lose data, it just refused to do it) I tried making sure nothing was compressed, it still complained. I eventually just ended up shrinking the NTFS partition as much as possible, put in a FAT32, copy as much will fit to the FAT32 partition, shrank the NTFS some more, extended the FAT32, copied more stuff over to the FAT32, repeat until the NTFS partition is empty... I would hope Partition Magic 8.0 actually does this right. ;P _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Aug 4 20:31:28 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT [Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software?] In-Reply-To: <914f813c040803143740027b1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c040803143740027b1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1091669488.13855.63.camel@bigtime> > Patch your kernel to add writeable NTFS support. It works fairly well > now, from what I've seen and read (and used, but I haven't used it > extensively.) Last I heard it only did overwrite of existing files. It can't create new files or allocate new blocks. This allows the use of putting a root partition on a loopback mount, so you can install a distribution without repartitioning, but is pretty useless for anything else. Unless you mean this: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Aug 4 21:31:44 2004 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040805023144.GA7210@iucha.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From deschiff at winternet.com Wed Aug 4 21:19:06 2004 From: deschiff at winternet.com (deschiff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: tclug-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091672345.29184.9.camel@localhost> The DVD that comes with each edition of LINUX FORMAT contains the complete Linux Documentation Project in tarballs. Thanks for sharing your collection:) > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:48:45 -0500 > From: Josh Trutwin > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux books and other reference material > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <20040804114845.00003577@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:00:55 -0500 > jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: > > > > > I've been collecting different on-line books and other Linux related > > material for a little while. Here is a link of what I have gathered > > so far. I have 12 on-line books, a few documents from IBM Labs and > > some LPI exam prep documents. > > > > http://www.linuxlans.com/linuxtutorials/index.html > > > > I'll continue to add documents and books as I come across them, but > > I am open to > > other suggestions and recommendations as well. And I know, some of > > the material is a bit dated. > > Here's and entire book online: > > http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute-home.html > > Also, on the Linux Database book I wasn't able to access any of the chapters. :( > > Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Aug 4 22:55:43 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <914f813c040804121418c34c99@mail.gmail.com> (john.t.hoffoss@gmail.com) References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <853e1ecc04080318336f61e8bf@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c040804121418c34c99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200408050355.i753thr29115@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:33:10 -0500, David Phillips wrote: >> Java isn't free. I can't install it on Debian or FreeBSD without >> jumping through hoops. There are plenty of other languages freely >> available for me to use, so why should I care about Java? "John T. Hoffoss" wrote: >Java is a language, and is free. A JDK from Sun requires hoops. (iirc, >a web form) The Blackdown JDK does not, though it isn't GPL'd. > If Java is free, it would be GPL (you could fork the source, etc.), most GNU/Linux distributions would install it and it would be immediately ready to use after the GNU/Linux installation completed. Sorry, free doesn't imply useful. I take it all back except GPL, since free == GPL (free is a synonym for GPL). You need a dose of GNU (http://www.gnu.org/) to help you understand that your proprietary lock-in tools will never let you be free. Who controls the Java specification? If you can build a better Java will Sun allow that? ------ Kaffee is interesting, but its not Java! >> And don't get me started on actually using an application written in >> Java. rpgoldman summed it up nicely. >No comment :) I've had some great experiences, and I've had some nasty >ones. Same as anything else. "If you used the proper tool for the task at hand, all your experiences would be great ones." -- a Guru's Guru Meditation _____ Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Wed Aug 4 22:56:02 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <200408040510.i745ALE15849@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <200408040510.i745ALE15849@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <1091678162.13855.92.camel@bigtime> > Java is the replacement for COBOL. Java is popular with management > because it is above critical mass and thus won't become a dead language. > It will probably last as long as COBOL has, but that doesn't make Java a > technically good language anymore than COBOL was. You're attempting guilt by association. You're right, just because Java has been happily embraced by those who previously used COBOL, says nothing about Java's technical quality, positive or negative. Except maybe that its at least better than COBOL... Conceptually, Java is really a replacement for C++. As gcj proves, Java is really just C++ with cleaner syntax, and all the C backwards compatibility baggage, cruft, misfeatures, and hacks removed. Really there's three parts to java, that really need to be made clear: 1) Java, the core language. As I mentioned above, I feel Java is just an evolution of the C/C++, and beats the hell out of them for application development. 2) Java, the class libraries. The value of a language often depends more on the libraries available to build on, than on the language itself, and Sun knew this. Java allows rapid development because SO much stuff is already done for you. For example, the collections API. On the other hand, many parts of Sun's API's suffer from severe over-engineering. Bleh. 3) Java, the implementation. Sun's JVM/JRE is bloaty slow and ugly. Unfortunately, while there's plenty of open source JVM's, Sun's own class libraries depend heavily on undocumented native interfaces in Sun's JVM and can't be used on an open source JVM. This means the open source world is stuck creating its own set of class libraries from scratch, and this has been very slow going. Sun's API's are rather heavily interconnected and often overcomplex, so just cloning it a piece at a time isn't easy. Just deciding on some open-source standard (and more posix friendly..) Java API's hasn't caught on... I think Java's biggest crock is its severe xenophobia, in the name of cross-platform compatibility. In order to call any non-Java libraries, you have to go through the slow ugly JNI interface. This is a huge disadvantage in the open source world, with its large existing body of C libraries and infrastructure. This also extends to, despite Sun being a Unix vendor, for some reason Sun went to great lengths to make Java incredibly NON posix-interoperable or even the least bit posix-friendly. This has really killed its popularity in the open source world. Java's been around for what, over 8 years now, and the open source Java runtimes have only recently become even the least bit usable. Whereas Mono development has outstripped Java in half the time, plus C# seems to not have the 'xenophobia' problem. I understand C# lets you call C and C ++ libraries directly without any have-to-write-a-wrapper bullshit. Java is probably going to lose out to C# as the future native application development language in the open source world. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Aug 4 23:18:16 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091665755.13855.12.camel@bigtime> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091665755.13855.12.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <16657.46344.776697.197665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Callum" == Callum Lerwick writes: >> Have a look at some of Paul Graham's stuff; might turn upside-down the >> way you look at programming languages: >> >> http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html Callum> Or just preach to the choir of LISP weenies who live in a Callum> magical fantasy happy land of theory, and make those who Callum> actually produce usable products go "Hey, what a LISP Callum> weenie that guy is!". I'm happy to live in a magical fantasy happy land, personally. Who wouldn't, if they could get away with it? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Wed Aug 4 23:16:54 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <20040805023144.GA7210@iucha.net> References: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040805023144.GA7210@iucha.net> Message-ID: <16657.46262.724282.694114@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Florin" == Florin Iucha writes: >> Chacun a son gout. Here's someone's inflammatory assessment of Java. >> If it doesn't match your experience, feel free to ignore it. But it's >> a good rant: >> >> "Object-oriented programming generates a lot of what looks like >> work. Back in the days of fanfold, there was a type of programmer who >> would only put five or ten lines of code on a page, preceded by twenty >> lines of elaborately formatted comments. Object-oriented programming >> is like crack for these people: it lets you incorporate all this >> scaffolding right into your source code. Something that a Lisp hacker >> might handle by pushing a symbol onto a list becomes a whole file of >> classes and methods. So it is a good tool if you want to convince >> yourself, or someone else, that you are doing a lot of work." --- >> http://www.paulgraham.com/noop.html Florin> Cute, but far from the point. You don't program business Florin> applications just by pushing symbols into lists. This seems staggeringly point-missing. You don't program business applications by doing transitive closure, single source shortest path, or implementing a heap either, but these can be very helpful. >> Every time I think about using Java, I am astounded by what a blizzard >> of objects I have to grapple with to do what seems to me to be the >> simplest thing. For example, the difference between what it takes to >> get something displayed on the screen in Java + Swing and perl + tk, >> or tcl/tk. For example, the test scroll pane thing, draws a picture >> and lets you scroll over it, which I opened at random to in a Swing >> book, consumes about 30 lines. That's approximately as much as is >> consumed by a sample graph editor (micro-Visio) in Ousterhout's Tcl >> book. And you just let the wish interpreter have at it, modding it as >> you go. No heavy lifting with the IDE, the editor, etc. Tcl isn't >> really to my taste, but that's a pretty good example of what I mean by >> a high-level languge. Florin> Show me the equivalent in Lisp. Never said you'd do this in lisp. Pretty much deprecated as a language for GUIs. But so what? Who'd bother doing text processing in C when there's perl? Why would you develop a database application in MATLAB? If you recall the whole thing started with someone saying "why don't you all love Java?" For GUIs I mentioned the advantages of Python, perl and tcl. As does Graham; if you read his article "Great Hackers." Graham's articles all seem to aim at two points: if it's boring to you; don't do it and demand the best tools. You're right; if you want to wallop code for a PHB, it's not the way to go. But it's a vision for a life working on software that's creative and fulfilling. Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 00:01:20 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091682080.13855.100.camel@bigtime> Woah, apparently just recently an open source NTFS resize tool was made: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html In theory, this means you can master your image on a partition thats at most smaller than the smallest hard drive you plan to use, then just dd it onto the drive of a client machine, then resize it to fill the drive. All from Linux. (you also probably need to dd the MBR separately to get it to boot) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Thu Aug 5 00:29:14 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091678162.13855.92.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: > Conceptually, Java is really a replacement for C++. As gcj proves, Java > is really just C++ with cleaner syntax, and all the C backwards > compatibility baggage, cruft, misfeatures, and hacks removed. I agree that Java is more related to C/C++ than COBOL. I don't know any Java developers that got their start in COBOL. I relize companies are sending COBOL programmers to training by the zillions, but I don't personally know anyone that has actually made the leap. COBOL and its typical platform is just too different than Java and other OO languages and their typical platforms. I think the COBOL developers are still mostly doing COBOL. There's plenty of it still. I have even read articles making a decent argument that COBOL is better than general purpose languages like Java for enterprise applications. On the other hand, I know all sorts of Java developers that also do C/C++. It's a natural transition. I've been involved in more than one C to Java conversion project, but I have not been part of a COBOL to Java conversion project. However I dunno if I would go as far as to call Java "C++ with cleaner syntax". While Java is syntactically like C++, developing with it is nothing like developing with C++. The garbage collection, runtime metadata, standard class library, modern Java IDEs, etc make it a whole different experience. > Really there's three parts to java, that really need to be made clear: > > 1) Java, the core language. As I mentioned above, I feel Java is just an > evolution of the C/C++, and beats the hell out of them for application > development. Couldn't agree more. > 2) Java, the class libraries. The value of a language often depends more > on the libraries available to build on, than on the language itself, and > Sun knew this. Java allows rapid development because SO much stuff is > already done for you. For example, the collections API. On the other > hand, many parts of Sun's API's suffer from severe over-engineering. > Bleh. Yeah, Java reminds me of Perl in that way. There's is a huge active community producing all sorts of cool useful stuff that is easy to assemble. C++ doesn't have the same thing, partly because the ANSI library was late coming and thus everything did things in incompatible ways. > I think Java's biggest crock is its severe xenophobia, in the name of > cross-platform compatibility. In order to call any non-Java libraries, > you have to go through the slow ugly JNI interface. This is a huge > disadvantage in the open source world, with its large existing body of C > libraries and infrastructure. This also extends to, despite Sun being a > Unix vendor, for some reason Sun went to great lengths to make Java > incredibly NON posix-interoperable or even the least bit posix-friendly. > This has really killed its popularity in the open source world. I have done JNI and .NET interop and I have to agree that its a lot easier with .NET to talk to native C code. That is also one of C++'s strengths. It is really seamless to integrate C++ code with 3rd party C code. > Java's been around for what, over 8 years now, and the open source Java > runtimes have only recently become even the least bit usable. Whereas > Mono development has outstripped Java in half the time, plus C# seems to > not have the 'xenophobia' problem. I understand C# lets you call C and C > ++ libraries directly without any have-to-write-a-wrapper bullshit. Java > is probably going to lose out to C# as the future native application > development language in the open source world. The speed of Mono's development has really took me by surprise. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Thu Aug 5 00:36:20 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16657.46262.724282.694114@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > This seems staggeringly point-missing. You don't program business > applications by doing transitive closure, single source shortest path, > or implementing a heap either, but these can be very helpful. Careful what you say! I did a transitive closure algorithm for a product database and shortest path algorithms come up in mobile work force applications. But for the most part the algorithms in that big white algorithms text book I used to have are pretty useless for enterprise development. :) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 03:29:02 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091694542.13855.117.camel@bigtime> > However I dunno if I would go as far as to call Java "C++ with cleaner > syntax". While Java is syntactically like C++, developing with it is > nothing like developing with C++. The garbage collection, runtime metadata, > standard class library, modern Java IDEs, etc make it a whole different > experience. A little cleanup goes a long way. Java took the best concepts from C++, refined them, and got rid of all the C baggage. To hell with having to worry about whats a pointer to what, (in Java, its always a pointer to an object!) to hell with freeing mallocs, (GC!) and to hell with headers and the preprocessor! (A C solution to encapsulation and namespacing, no longer needed...) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 03:39:18 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:22 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1091695158.13855.123.camel@bigtime> > Every time I think about using Java, I am astounded by what a blizzard > of objects I have to grapple with to do what seems to me to be the > simplest thing. For example, the difference between what it takes to > get something displayed on the screen in Java + Swing and perl + tk, > or tcl/tk. For example, the test scroll pane thing, draws a picture > and lets you scroll over it, which I opened at random to in a Swing > book, consumes about 30 lines. That's approximately as much as is > consumed by a sample graph editor (micro-Visio) in Ousterhout's Tcl > book. And you just let the wish interpreter have at it, modding it as > you go. No heavy lifting with the IDE, the editor, etc. Tcl isn't > really to my taste, but that's a pretty good example of what I mean by > a high-level languge. Java is generally accepted as being more suitable for large apps. Just because it's not the most terse language for quick hacks, doesn't mean its not a good choice for large applications. Nor does being able to hack something up in only 3 lines of code instead of 30 mean TCL or Perl is good for writing large apps... Right tool for the job. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 03:46:23 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16657.46344.776697.197665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091665755.13855.12.camel@bigtime> <16657.46344.776697.197665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1091695583.13855.125.camel@bigtime> > I'm happy to live in a magical fantasy happy land, personally. Who > wouldn't, if they could get away with it? True, that. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Aug 5 09:09:00 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <16657.46344.776697.197665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.63512.345510.264423@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091568691.41100433284c6@webmail.real-time.com> <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091665755.13855.12.camel@bigtime> <16657.46344.776697.197665@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16658.16252.715315.380763@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "rpgoldman" == rpgoldman writes: >>>>> "Callum" == Callum Lerwick writes: >>> Have a look at some of Paul Graham's stuff; might turn upside-down the >>> way you look at programming languages: >>> >>> http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html Callum> Or just preach to the choir of LISP weenies who live in a Callum> magical fantasy happy land of theory, and make those who Callum> actually produce usable products go "Hey, what a LISP Callum> weenie that guy is!". rpgoldman> I'm happy to live in a magical fantasy happy land, personally. Who rpgoldman> wouldn't, if they could get away with it? I really missed the opportunity here to point out how funny it is to have linux weenies complaining about lisp weenies. Doesn't this sound like the way people tell you that you ought to get out of your magical fantasy happy land of Open Source and Linux and make those who actually produce usable Microsoft apps go "Hey, what a Linux weenie that guy is!" :-) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Aug 5 09:06:56 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux In-Reply-To: <1091678162.13855.92.camel@bigtime> References: <410A9593.5020800@citilink.com> <1091475034.410e965a1c4e3@webmail.real-time.com> <16655.53239.20343.937647@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1091564995.410ff5c3ee753@webmail.real-time.com> <200408040510.i745ALE15849@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <1091678162.13855.92.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <16658.16128.671792.868068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Callum" == Callum Lerwick writes: Callum> I think Java's biggest crock is its severe xenophobia, in Callum> the name of cross-platform compatibility. In order to call Callum> any non-Java libraries, you have to go through the slow Callum> ugly JNI interface. This is a huge disadvantage in the Callum> open source world, with its large existing body of C Callum> libraries and infrastructure. This also extends to, Callum> despite Sun being a Unix vendor, for some reason Sun went Callum> to great lengths to make Java incredibly NON Callum> posix-interoperable or even the least bit posix-friendly. Callum> This has really killed its popularity in the open source Callum> world. I would have guessed that this was a legacy of Java's original intent as a language for downloadable applets to run in a sandbox inside a browser. That xenophobia makes more sense from that standpoint, but it's been overtaken by events. One reasonable hypothesis is that Java was originally intended for downloadable applets and applications through the web, but caught on big as a general-purpose language because of its advantages over C++. Then the xenophobia that used to be a feature becomes a bug... r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Thu Aug 5 10:29:37 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D642FB@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: rpgoldman@real-time.com [mailto:rpgoldman@real-time.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:09 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux > > >>>>> "rpgoldman" == rpgoldman writes: > > >>>>> "Callum" == Callum Lerwick writes: > >>> Have a look at some of Paul Graham's stuff; might > turn upside-down the > >>> way you look at programming languages: > >>> > >>> http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html > > Callum> Or just preach to the choir of LISP weenies who live in a > Callum> magical fantasy happy land of theory, and make those who > Callum> actually produce usable products go "Hey, what a LISP > Callum> weenie that guy is!". > > rpgoldman> I'm happy to live in a magical fantasy happy > land, personally. Who > rpgoldman> wouldn't, if they could get away with it? > > I really missed the opportunity here to point out how funny > it is to have linux weenies complaining about lisp weenies. > Doesn't this sound like the way people tell you that you > ought to get out of your magical fantasy happy land of Open > Source and Linux and make those who actually produce usable > Microsoft apps go "Hey, what a Linux weenie that guy is!" > > :-) Irony defined. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Thu Aug 5 10:41:02 2004 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: <1091682080.13855.100.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: Well, fixing the MBR's easy: 1) Boot to CD (2k,XP, etc) 2) Launch into Recovery console 3) fixmbr 4) reboot -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:01 AM To: TCLUG Subject: Re: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Woah, apparently just recently an open source NTFS resize tool was made: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html In theory, this means you can master your image on a partition thats at most smaller than the smallest hard drive you plan to use, then just dd it onto the drive of a client machine, then resize it to fill the drive. All from Linux. (you also probably need to dd the MBR separately to get it to boot) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Wed Aug 4 23:18:46 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gui development on Linux References: <16656.15951.633046.156681@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <16656.60951.670972.155798@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <006f01c47aa3$4df86980$1e02a8c0@zippy> Back in the days of fanfold, there was a type of programmer who would only put five or ten lines of code on a page, preceded by twenty lines of elaborately formatted comments After many years of consulting and support work, I have found that I generally prefer to work on these fellows code. Of course, you may enjoy working crossword puzzles and uncommented code as some sort of a character building exercise; It takes all kinds of people to make the world go 'round! With any luck at all, the original author may have selected meaningless variable name and labels to enhance the challenge. If you are fixing code that someone else wrote, you may never learn the original premises that the code was based on, and you may never figure out how some parts work. I suppose that everybody needs a little mystery in their lives. One of my all-time favorites is uncommented tables of magic numbers, with calculated indexes into them. ARGH! I have further found that code that *I* dashed off in the quick and dirty mode was vary hard to support. In a few cases, it was easier to write it again rather than figure out what I had written before. It is strange that when you were "in the zone" it all made sense and fit together. The fact is that it took a long time working through the problem to get zoned in the first place. Sadly, without good comments, it make take about the same amount of time to get zoned in again. I have also found that when I spent the time writing these comment blocks myself, I was forced to actually work out what I was going to do before I started spewing code -- my code was usually better for it. One of my most amazing observations (to me anyway) is that the extra time spent working through a problem frequently reduced the number of lines of code. Inside of hairy-nasty poorly defined problem, there is usually a tiny little problem with an elegant solution trying to get out. It may be possible that with no useful comments the amount of extra code generated would have taken the same space as the comments. I will go out on a limb and state that the time saved not writing useful comments *will* be replaced by debugging time. Naturally, YMMV Mark Browne _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rbentz at dunwoody.edu Thu Aug 5 15:51:16 2004 From: rbentz at dunwoody.edu (rbentz@dunwoody.edu) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NTFS resizing WAS: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD03258374@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Looks cool, so forgive me for being being able to see this through but how could one create a boot disk(CD preferably) that has this tool on it? I am familiar with DSL and KNOPPIX but I've never customized one of those distros. Any thoughts? That's the last part of my conundrum... > > Woah, apparently just recently an open source NTFS resize tool was made: > > http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html > > In theory, this means you can master your image on a partition thats at > most smaller than the smallest hard drive you plan to use, then just dd > it onto the drive of a client machine, then resize it to fill the drive. > All from Linux. > > (you also probably need to dd the MBR separately to get it to boot) > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From detertj at msoe.edu Thu Aug 5 17:05:31 2004 From: detertj at msoe.edu (Jonathan C. Detert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slow performance using webdav from WinXP to apache on debian Message-ID: <20040805220531.GD11898@msoe.edu> Hello All, I've got apache v2.x with mod_dav running on debian linux. Linux and Win2k webdav clients work fine. WinXP clients (meaning via Explorer or I.Exploder) work, but with these problems: - god awfully slow to connect, browse, or edit. Like 15-30 seconds per operation. Basically, slow all around. - cannot edit URLs that are dynamically preprocessed by apache before handing to the browser (e.g. php files; shtml files). When i try to edit them, the editor is presented w. the apache-processed result, not the raw source. Has anyone dealt w. this before? Any ideas how to fix or work-around? The only other light i can shed on the problem is that the XP client frequently and repeatedly tries to both ping and speak tcp 445 to the apache webserver, both of which commuincations are dropped by a firewall in between. If i open the firewall, performance is better, but still below what a typical end-user expects. Anyway, of course the webserver isn't listening to tcp 445. -- Happy Landings, Jon Detert IT Systems Administrator, Milwaukee School of Engineering _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john4293 at tc.umn.edu Thu Aug 5 17:14:15 2004 From: john4293 at tc.umn.edu (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU Message-ID: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> last week Dell replaced the motherboard/CPU in my notebook (Inspiron 5150, non-HT 3.06Ghz). I was doing puttering around in winxp and noticed that that the device manager shows two processors. so i flipped into bios and there is now a setting to enable hyperthreading as well as the P4 w/ HT logo on the splash screen. in linux /proc/cpuinfo shows the following: # cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 2 model name : Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.06GHz stepping : 9 cpu MHz : 3056.542 cache size : 512 KB fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 2 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe cid bogomips : 6094.84 also, /proc/acpi/processor/ now has a CPU1 directory in addition to CPU0. does this mean Dell slipped me a newer unit with HT? Thomas Johnson -------------- john4293 at umn dot edu 763.458.9071 (cell) -------------- * if it's not broken, i haven't worked hard enough. * there is little truth in men but much cunning. -peter the great _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 17:12:40 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091743960.13453.4.camel@bigtime> > Well, fixing the MBR's easy: > 1) Boot to CD (2k,XP, etc) > 2) Launch into Recovery console > 3) fixmbr > 4) reboot That would require a whole reboot cycle to itself though. Actually, unless XP really changed something, Debian's 'DFSG-blessed' MBR should work... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Thu Aug 5 17:25:20 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU Message-ID: It looks just like my hyperthreaded unit. I thought I had to turn on hyperthreading from the BIOS. Hyperthreading works very slick under a smp kernel for any compile type use. When creating a mp3 through lame single processor kernel would run at 1-2x playback speed and under hyperthreading the speed increased to 10-12x playback speed. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Johnson [mailto:john4293@tc.umn.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:14 PM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU last week Dell replaced the motherboard/CPU in my notebook (Inspiron 5150, non-HT 3.06Ghz). I was doing puttering around in winxp and noticed that that the device manager shows two processors. so i flipped into bios and there is now a setting to enable hyperthreading as well as the P4 w/ HT logo on the splash screen. in linux /proc/cpuinfo shows the following: # cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 2 model name : Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.06GHz stepping : 9 cpu MHz : 3056.542 cache size : 512 KB fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 2 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe cid bogomips : 6094.84 also, /proc/acpi/processor/ now has a CPU1 directory in addition to CPU0. does this mean Dell slipped me a newer unit with HT? Thomas Johnson -------------- john4293 at umn dot edu 763.458.9071 (cell) -------------- * if it's not broken, i haven't worked hard enough. * there is little truth in men but much cunning. -peter the great _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Thu Aug 5 17:28:26 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NTFS resizing WAS: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Message-ID: I use Inside Security (Insert Live CD) http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html. It has captive, anti-virus, and nt admin password reset. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: rbentz@dunwoody.edu [mailto:rbentz@dunwoody.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] NTFS resizing WAS: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? Looks cool, so forgive me for being being able to see this through but how could one create a boot disk(CD preferably) that has this tool on it? I am familiar with DSL and KNOPPIX but I've never customized one of those distros. Any thoughts? That's the last part of my conundrum... > > Woah, apparently just recently an open source NTFS resize tool was made: > > http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html > > In theory, this means you can master your image on a partition thats at > most smaller than the smallest hard drive you plan to use, then just dd > it onto the drive of a client machine, then resize it to fill the drive. > All from Linux. > > (you also probably need to dd the MBR separately to get it to boot) > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Aug 5 17:38:00 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service Message-ID: RoadRunner just introduced Premium cable, 6mb/512k, $70/mo if you have cable, $85 otherwise. Just called and upgraded, did a speed test while on the phone: ncftp /pub/linux/kernel/v2.6 > get linux-2.6.6.tar.bz2 linux-2.6.6.tar.bz2: 33.28 MB 706.57 kB/s pretty sweet! The sales rep also mentioned they will be offering VoIP phone service in the next couple months, she said it's a bit cheaper than the Vonage offerings. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 17:33:32 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU In-Reply-To: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> References: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <1091745212.13453.8.camel@bigtime> > flags : ht ^^ I do believe that means hyperthreading... > also, /proc/acpi/processor/ now has a CPU1 directory in addition to CPU0. does this mean Dell slipped me a newer unit with HT? Yes! Pop in an SMP kernel and enjoy! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 5 17:37:47 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:23 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] NTFS resizing WAS: [TCLUG] PC Imaging Software? In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD03258374@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD03258374@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us> Message-ID: <1091745467.13453.13.camel@bigtime> > Looks cool, so forgive me for being being able to see this through but > how could one create a boot disk(CD preferably) that has this tool on > it? I am familiar with DSL and KNOPPIX but I've never customized one of > those distros. Any thoughts? That's the last part of my conundrum... There's a list of distributions and rescue CD's that already have it: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#example They seem to recommend SystemRescueCD. Look at the pretty screenshots! http://www.sysresccd.org/screenshots.en.php _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Aug 5 17:44:15 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU In-Reply-To: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> References: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Thomas Johnson wrote: > last week Dell replaced the motherboard/CPU in my notebook (Inspiron > 5150, non-HT 3.06Ghz). I was doing puttering around in winxp and noticed > that that the device manager shows two processors. so i flipped into > bios and there is now a setting to enable hyperthreading as well as the > P4 w/ HT logo on the splash screen. in linux /proc/cpuinfo shows the > following: Sure looks like it, if you install a SMP kernel, you'll see two CPU's in /proc/cpuinfo, too. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Thu Aug 5 18:27:37 2004 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09963E54-E737-11D8-AA9D-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Holy crap!! I want this yesterday... Now, how am I going to convince my non-techy roommates that after we just upgraded from 256k dsl to 2mb cable (for basically the same price) we need to upgrade to this at twice the price? On Aug 5, 2004, at 5:38 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > RoadRunner just introduced Premium cable, 6mb/512k, $70/mo if you have > cable, $85 otherwise. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Thu Aug 5 18:41:15 2004 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200408051841.15372.barnabas@knicknack.net> Is it still dynamic address? If so, did you ask about a static address? Eric On Thursday 05 August 2004 17:38, Nate Carlson wrote: > RoadRunner just introduced Premium cable, 6mb/512k, $70/mo if you have > cable, $85 otherwise. Just called and upgraded, did a speed test while on > the phone: > > ncftp /pub/linux/kernel/v2.6 > get linux-2.6.6.tar.bz2 > linux-2.6.6.tar.bz2: 33.28 MB 706.57 > kB/s > > pretty sweet! The sales rep also mentioned they will be offering VoIP > phone service in the next couple months, she said it's a bit cheaper than > the Vonage offerings. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Aug 5 18:53:14 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] slow performance using webdav from WinXP to apache on debian In-Reply-To: <20040805220531.GD11898@msoe.edu> References: <20040805220531.GD11898@msoe.edu> Message-ID: <1091749994.31721.49.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Aug 5 19:03:43 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408060003.i7603hx16369@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Pentium Pro pc for sale I have a computer with a Pentium pro (233 mhz) with 128mb ram a 1gb hard drive. Also includes a Nic and soundcard and a 24x cd-rom drive. price $20.00 if intrested let me know: via email: blacknight_709@hotmail.com Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Aug 5 20:02:42 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: <200408051841.15372.barnabas@knicknack.net> References: <200408051841.15372.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Eric Stanley wrote: > Is it still dynamic address? If so, did you ask about a static address? Yes; it's dynamic. You can get a block of 5 dynamic addresses for $10/mo; for static, you need to go to their Home Business package, which is $110/mo including a static IP. It's 3mb down 768k up. Business does have repair advantages, too - if something breaks, they will get someone there the same day to fix it. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Thu Aug 5 20:03:02 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: <09963E54-E737-11D8-AA9D-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> References: <09963E54-E737-11D8-AA9D-000A957FC086@ringworld.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Justin Kremer wrote: > Holy crap!! I want this yesterday... Now, how am I going to convince my > non-techy roommates that after we just upgraded from 256k dsl to 2mb > cable (for basically the same price) we need to upgrade to this at > twice the price? Heh, g'luck. :) Where'd you manage to find 2mb cable? Thought everyone was 3mb these days. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Thu Aug 5 23:40:11 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bi Monthly "Is Anyone Running this nVidia/Kernel combo" Message-ID: So I figured I may as well upgrade to kernel 2.6.7, and while I'm at it I may as well upgrade to nVidia 6111. Except now X dies with a Signal 11. So I downgrade to nVidia 5363 (or something, machine has been turned off in disgust) and it STILL gets Signal 11. So I go back to kernel 2.6.5... and X /still/ dies with Signal 11 no matter WHAT version of the nVidia drivers I try. All the modules build and insert themselves cleanly into the kernel. I'm thinking 6111 left something behind... but even if I do a find for *6111* and remove all that, I still get Sig11.... Anyone? -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 07:55:26 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bi Monthly "Is Anyone Running this nVidia/Kernel combo" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67f3084a04080605557d6f04ce@mail.gmail.com> Have you tried moving your X11Config file to a different name, and then just running X without the nVidia calls? On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:40:11 -0500 (CDT), Yaron wrote: > So I figured I may as well upgrade to kernel 2.6.7, and while I'm at it I > may as well upgrade to nVidia 6111. Except now X dies with a Signal 11. > > So I downgrade to nVidia 5363 (or something, machine has been turned off > in disgust) and it STILL gets Signal 11. So I go back to kernel 2.6.5... > and X /still/ dies with Signal 11 no matter WHAT version of the nVidia > drivers I try. > > All the modules build and insert themselves cleanly into the kernel. I'm > thinking 6111 left something behind... but even if I do a find for *6111* > and remove all that, I still get Sig11.... > > Anyone? > > -Yaron > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- -Shawn "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Fri Aug 6 09:22:01 2004 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bi Monthly "Is Anyone Running this nVidia/Kernel combo" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200408060922.02171.barnabas@knicknack.net> On Thursday 05 August 2004 23:40, Yaron wrote: > So I figured I may as well upgrade to kernel 2.6.7, and while I'm at it I > may as well upgrade to nVidia 6111. Except now X dies with a Signal 11. > > So I downgrade to nVidia 5363 (or something, machine has been turned off > in disgust) and it STILL gets Signal 11. So I go back to kernel 2.6.5... > and X /still/ dies with Signal 11 no matter WHAT version of the nVidia > drivers I try. > > All the modules build and insert themselves cleanly into the kernel. I'm > thinking 6111 left something behind... but even if I do a find for *6111* > and remove all that, I still get Sig11.... > > Anyone? > > > -Yaron > I'm running Fedora Core 2 updated as of yesterday, kernel rpm version 2.6.7-1.494.2.2 and NVIDIA driver version 6111 without any (apparent) problems. I'd be happy to send you my xorg.conf if you think it would be of any help. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 6 10:00:16 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: References: <200408051841.15372.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: <20040806100016.00006682@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 20:02:42 -0500 (CDT) Nate Carlson wrote: > On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Eric Stanley wrote: > > Is it still dynamic address? If so, did you ask about a static > > address? > > Yes; it's dynamic. You can get a block of 5 dynamic addresses for > $10/mo; for static, you need to go to their Home Business package, > which is$110/mo including a static IP. It's 3mb down 768k up. > Business does have repair advantages, too - if something breaks, > they will get someone there the same day to fix it. As a Home Business user, all I can say is it's not worth it. I've been on their business class service for over a year. The statics are nice but I've had more stupid outtages on business class than I ever remember having on their residential line. I'm switching back in September. Dynamic IP's aren't so bad, just use dynamic DNS - www.dyndns.org has free dynmaic DNS services. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Aug 6 10:06:13 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bi Monthly "Is Anyone Running this nVidia/Kernel combo" In-Reply-To: <200408060922.02171.barnabas@knicknack.net> References: <200408060922.02171.barnabas@knicknack.net> Message-ID: Hey, On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Eric Stanley wrote: > I'm running Fedora Core 2 updated as of yesterday, kernel rpm version > 2.6.7-1.494.2.2 and NVIDIA driver version 6111 without any (apparent) > problems. I'd be happy to send you my xorg.conf if you think it would be of > any help. Nah... see, it was working fine before. However... I did just find out it STILL works fine in single-head, but dies in dual-head. Gaaaah. -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri Aug 6 10:46:23 2004 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: <20040806100016.00006682@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Dynamic IP's aren't so bad, just use dynamic DNS - www.dyndns.org has > free dynmaic DNS services. So do I. It's not hard to get going, so long as you have some DNS servers on statics. Plus, I can use my own domains without paying extra. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Fri Aug 6 10:58:29 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:24 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: <20040806100016.00006682@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <200408051841.15372.barnabas@knicknack.net> <20040806100016.00006682@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <20040806155829.GB20909@therub.org> On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 10:00:16AM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 20:02:42 -0500 (CDT) Nate Carlson > wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Eric Stanley wrote: > > > Is it still dynamic address? If so, did you ask about a static > > > address? > > > > Yes; it's dynamic. You can get a block of 5 dynamic addresses for > > $10/mo; for static, you need to go to their Home Business package, > > which is$110/mo including a static IP. It's 3mb down 768k up. > > Business does have repair advantages, too - if something breaks, > > they will get someone there the same day to fix it. > > As a Home Business user, all I can say is it's not worth it. I've > been on their business class service for over a year. The statics are > nice but I've had more stupid outtages on business class than I ever > remember having on their residential line. I'm switching back in > September. Dynamic IP's aren't so bad, just use dynamic DNS - > www.dyndns.org has free dynmaic DNS services. Yeah, till road runner decides to block port x on it's residential users, becasue they shouldn't be running servers anyway.. At least, that's what I'd worry about if you're doing any serious hosting. dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jethro at freakzilla.com Fri Aug 6 10:58:25 2004 From: jethro at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video Cards Message-ID: Ok, so I solved the issue THIS version of the nVidia driver was having. It's always a dual-head issue. This time it didn't like that my MetaModes statement had more than one option, so it Signal 11'd. I'm getting kinda sick of this, franlky. I /like/ upgrading and being on the latest version of things, but the nVidia drivers make that almost painful. So I'm thinking, maybe I should get a new video card. Is anyone else using dual-head with Linux? If so, anyone using an ATI or something, and have any comments on that? I've done dual-head with a Matrox and an nVidia card. The Matrox was a long time ago, and there was no real OpenGL on both heads. The nVidia does do that - WHEN it works it works pretty well. Anyone have any comments on dual head, or video cards under Linux in general? -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Fri Aug 6 11:17:48 2004 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Video Cards In-Reply-To: ; from jethro@freakzilla.com on Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 10:58:25AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20040806111748.M19871@real-time.com> On 08/06 10:58 , Yaron wrote: > Anyone have any comments on dual head, or video cards under Linux in > general? yes, but they aren't helpful. ;) multihead rocks. nVidia sucks. binary drivers suck. nVidia OGL support rocks; but only if you're willing to live with the way they cripple X, break Xinerama-aware apps, and make upgrades a PITA. get an ATI. the one I have here at work doesn't work quite as well as my Matrox cards did (I've seen some driver bugs); but it works reasonably well, and last I heard, there was some sort of Open multihead-DRI support for ATI cards, using something called 'mergedfb'. I never bothered trying anything with it tho. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Fri Aug 6 11:23:36 2004 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Bi Monthly "Is Anyone Running this nVidia/Kernel combo" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4113B088.2000004@info9.net> Yaron wrote: > So I figured I may as well upgrade to kernel 2.6.7, and while I'm at it > I may as well upgrade to nVidia 6111. Except now X dies with a Signal 11. Ok.. I haven't tried 6111 yet, but I do have an update since I posted: http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2004-July/066763.html I was able to get the 'nv' driver working... Although (as I should have guessed) dropping the up-rev'd nv driver into the current X build simply did not work. I basically built the entire 'santized' tree (4.4.0-rc2) and then ONLY used it for the X server in my .xserverrc. This is a lifesaver. I suspect there is some 2.6-ism with the nVidia driver as there have been several reports of these problems in nvNews and debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=257465 Various people have mentioned being careful about installation (symlinks to drivers getting updated or not). Others have said that building the kernel module must be done *in the running target kernel*. I can't imagine that matters (but it's easy enough to do make-kpkg kernel_image ; reboot ; make-kpkg modules_image ). > I'm getting kinda sick of this, franlky. I /like/ upgrading and > being on the latest version of things, but the nVidia drivers make that almost painful. It's so easy in debian that it hasn't been a bother for me, generally, to run with nVidia. However that was on an old GPU (for which the driver was debugged). Once the core driver issue gets resolved (w/my new GPU and/or 2.6.x-isms) then it will be painless again. (I want GLX!!!) Regards, --Tom _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 6 11:26:45 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service In-Reply-To: <20040806155829.GB20909@therub.org> References: <200408051841.15372.barnabas@knicknack.net> <20040806100016.00006682@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040806155829.GB20909@therub.org> Message-ID: <20040806112645.0000625e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:58:29 -0500 Dan Rue wrote: > Yeah, till road runner decides to block port x on it's residential > users, becasue they shouldn't be running servers anyway.. At least, > that's what I'd worry about if you're doing any serious hosting. RR's history with this has been pretty good in my experience. They check to see if you are running an open relay about once a month. I have never had problems with running other services behind a dynamic IP address. Of course their policies could change. Anything I am serious about I run off a different co-lo'd server but it's nice to maintain my own at home too. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bruce.broecker at toro.com Fri Aug 6 12:08:07 2004 From: bruce.broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Roadrunner Premium Service Message-ID: >>>> jima@beer.tclug.org 08/06/04 10:46AM >>> >On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Josh Trutwin wrote: >> Dynamic IP's aren't so bad, just use dynamic DNS - www.dyndns.org has >> free dynmaic DNS services. > So do I. It's not hard to get going, so long as you have some DNS >servers on statics. Plus, I can use my own domains without paying extra. Likewise here. I'm using dyndns.org to get a fixed A record for my server, then I use mydomain.com to manage my domain names, and I point the MX record there to the A record at dyndns.org. Voila, my mail server is published using dynamic dns. It's worked pretty consistently for a couple of years now. Bruce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Aug 6 14:21:41 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408061921.i76JLfr31639@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Compaq Deskpro 6000 *No Operating System* System Model: Compaq Deskpro 6000 Processor: 333mhz Intel Pentium II Ram:128mb Hard Drive: 4.3 SCSI Standard Floppy Disk Controller Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller Primary IDE controller (dual fifo) Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo) PCI VGA-Compatible Display Adapter Adaptec AIC-7860 PCI SCSI Controller Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller ES1869 Control Interface (WDM) ES1869 Plug and Play AudioDrive (WDM) Compaq Netelligent 10/100 TX Embedded UTP Controller Network Card MAC Address: 00:08:C7:CC:B2:FB Network IP Address: 169.254.174.165 / 16 Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Aug 6 17:52:04 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [Semi-Offtopic] New User Training.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41140B94.3000402@eworld3.net> If they really have not worked with computers at all then you are in for a real treat. I have tried to explain things to several such people and it can be very challenging. They may be intimidated by this learning experience. My suggestion is to start on a white board with terminology and go slowly. I would not have them touch the keyboard until they are comfortable with you and each other. I hope that you have at least 5 hours with these guys. Keith Bachman wrote: > I was asked by an administration official at my college (actually my > boss?s boss) if I could help train in a trio of older students who have > never used the Internet or a computer before. We have access to a set > of Windows XP PCs, but they are locked down (I could see about getting > some things added/removed, like Mozilla or something, they have IE and > Office 2003) > > > > What would you guys suggest starting these guys out on, and any tips or > suggestions, as well as any websites that you?ve found (or made) in > assisting with this (?Beginners Guide to Using Computers? etc) > > > > They are also going into the INT (Information Networking Technology) > Program (which I?m in as well) so anything pointing down that direction > would also be useful. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Keith Bachman > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Fri Aug 6 17:56:48 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <20040804115621.A9095@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> <20040804103228.A8928@baker.space.umn.edu> <4a0cafe20408040854414eb7dc@mail.gmail.com> <20040804115621.A9095@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <41140CB0.10302@eworld3.net> I second that emotion. Sometimes I have seen error messages when I forget to use -z. I scratch my head for a second and then try again. Jim Crumley wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 10:54:03AM -0500, Josh Close wrote: > >>Yes, I tried it with -v also, and it just lists a directory and the >>file before it craps out. I tried using rar also and it got a lot >>farther, but no dice. > > > Is the tar file gzipped of bzipped ? Sometimes the suffixes get > lost. Try "file" on it? Also, from googling on your error > messages it looks like this sometimes happens if a hardrive it > failing. Trying copying the tar somewhere else. Finally, try > opeing it up in an editor. If there are any text files in the > tar and its not compressed, you should be able to look around a > little. > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 00:57:01 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] tar file woes In-Reply-To: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a0cafe2040804071836d893e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04080622572ed1496e@mail.gmail.com> I was getting this error just today, actually. I was imaging a disk and on the destination workstation, the current directory was ~, I was tarring/zipping & netcatting a partition over, mounted identically, but forgot to tell tar not to strip the leading /. As a result, I was filling the ramdisk in KNOPPIX, causing this error. This probably won't provide any lead, but check your free disk space on that partition. John On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:18:57 -0500, Josh Close wrote: > I'm trying to untar a file and I get this error > > # tar -xf file.tar > > tar: Skipping to next header > tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers > > Then it just sits there. Is there a way to fix that? Or is this file > lost for good? > > -Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Sat Aug 7 09:13:30 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What are these SSH probes? In-Reply-To: <20040807080216.30230.qmail@refried.org> <20040806230215.24721.qmail@refried.org> <20040803180215.7763.qmail@refried.org> <20040727160216.4862.qmail@refried.org> References: <20040807080216.30230.qmail@refried.org> <20040806230215.24721.qmail@refried.org> <20040803180215.7763.qmail@refried.org> <20040727160216.4862.qmail@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> Has anyone else been getting these messages in their logs? It's mostly attempts to log in as "guest" or "test" through SSH. On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:02:16PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > Security Events > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Jul 27 10:26:22 candle sshd[4246]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 3995 ssh2 > Jul 27 10:26:24 candle sshd[4248]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4068 ssh2 > Jul 27 10:50:50 candle sshd[4343]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 4587 ssh2 > Jul 27 10:50:52 candle sshd[4345]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4666 ssh2 > Jul 27 10:50:52 candle sshd[4347]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 4687 ssh2 > Jul 27 10:50:54 candle sshd[4349]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4768 ssh2 On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 06:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > Security Events > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Aug 3 12:07:08 candle sshd[7004]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 54042 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:11 candle sshd[7006]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 24.100.69.192 port 54155 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:15 candle sshd[7008]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > Aug 3 12:07:15 candle sshd[7008]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 54242 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:19 candle sshd[7010]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > Aug 3 12:07:19 candle sshd[7010]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 54318 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:25 candle sshd[7012]: Failed password for illegal user user from 24.100.69.192 port 54515 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:31 candle sshd[7014]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54641 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:36 candle sshd[7016]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54827 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:42 candle sshd[7018]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54952 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:07:47 candle sshd[7020]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 55078 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:10:37 candle sshd[7036]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 59539 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:10:40 candle sshd[7038]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 24.100.69.192 port 59621 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:10:43 candle sshd[7040]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > Aug 3 12:10:43 candle sshd[7040]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 59708 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:10:50 candle sshd[7042]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > Aug 3 12:10:50 candle sshd[7042]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 59778 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:10:58 candle sshd[7044]: Failed password for illegal user user from 24.100.69.192 port 59855 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:10:59 candle sshd[7046]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59874 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:11:00 candle sshd[7048]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59892 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:11:01 candle sshd[7050]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59904 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:11:02 candle sshd[7052]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 59917 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:46:50 candle sshd[7187]: Failed password for illegal user test from 80.23.107.114 port 56089 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:46:52 candle sshd[7189]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 80.23.107.114 port 56149 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:46:53 candle sshd[7191]: Illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 > Aug 3 12:46:53 candle sshd[7191]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 port 56212 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:46:55 candle sshd[7193]: Illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 > Aug 3 12:46:55 candle sshd[7193]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 port 56272 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:46:57 candle sshd[7195]: Failed password for illegal user user from 80.23.107.114 port 56337 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:46:58 candle sshd[7197]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56393 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:47:00 candle sshd[7199]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56452 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:47:02 candle sshd[7201]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56496 ssh2 > Aug 3 12:47:05 candle sshd[7203]: Failed password for illegal user test from 80.23.107.114 port 56536 ssh2 On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 11:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > Security Events > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Aug 6 17:42:34 candle sshd[24161]: Failed password for illegal user test from 132.248.225.118 port 40370 ssh2 > Aug 6 17:42:35 candle sshd[24163]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 40404 ssh2 > Aug 6 17:45:12 candle sshd[24179]: Failed password for illegal user test from 132.248.225.118 port 41995 ssh2 > Aug 6 17:45:13 candle sshd[24181]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 42021 ssh2 On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 08:02:16AM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > Security Events > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Aug 7 02:32:54 candle sshd[29659]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.19.212.18 port 55079 ssh2 Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Sat Aug 7 09:40:40 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What are these SSH probes? In-Reply-To: <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> References: <20040807080216.30230.qmail@refried.org> <20040806230215.24721.qmail@refried.org> <20040803180215.7763.qmail@refried.org> <20040727160216.4862.qmail@refried.org> <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> Message-ID: <20040807144040.GB28541@botwerks.org> i guess the surprising thing is that you haven't been getting these messages for years now. i've regularly been seeing fairly sophisticated ssh probes with a range of accounts from a variety of source address space. what's more, i've been seeing probes with plausible (non-root) account names for a couple of years now. OTPs are your friend. when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Aug 07, 2004), nate@refried.org was madly tapping out: > Has anyone else been getting these messages in their logs? It's > mostly attempts to log in as "guest" or "test" through SSH. > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:02:16PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Jul 27 10:26:22 candle sshd[4246]: Failed password for illegal > > user test from 61.109.156.5 port 3995 ssh2 {snipped - for brevity} > On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 06:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Aug 3 12:07:08 candle sshd[7004]: Failed password for illegal > > user test from 24.100.69.192 port 54042 ssh2 {snipped - for brevity} > On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 11:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Aug 6 17:45:13 candle sshd[24181]: Failed password for illegal > > user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 42021 ssh2 > On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 08:02:16AM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Aug 7 02:32:54 candle sshd[29659]: Failed password for illegal > > user test from 61.19.212.18 port 55079 ssh2 {snipped - for brevity} -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From barnabas at knicknack.net Sat Aug 7 09:54:26 2004 From: barnabas at knicknack.net (Eric Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What are these SSH probes? In-Reply-To: <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> References: <20040807080216.30230.qmail@refried.org> <20040727160216.4862.qmail@refried.org> <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> Message-ID: <200408070954.28401.barnabas@knicknack.net> They just started showing up on a couple systems I administer also. Those systems had had that port open for years, so I'm not sure why I was suddenly targeted. I did complain to the administrator for several of the probing systems and one responded that their system had been compromised. I closed port 22 on both of my systems. Eric On Saturday 07 August 2004 09:13, nate@refried.org wrote: > Has anyone else been getting these messages in their logs? It's mostly > attempts to log in as "guest" or "test" through SSH. > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:02:16PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Jul 27 10:26:22 candle sshd[4246]: Failed password for illegal user test > > from 61.109.156.5 port 3995 ssh2 Jul 27 10:26:24 candle sshd[4248]: > Nate > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Sat Aug 7 10:38:29 2004 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:25 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OFFTOPIC] XP SP2 anyone....? Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Sat Aug 7 10:40:29 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What are these SSH probes? In-Reply-To: <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> Message-ID: See the thread on inet-access...they are seeing an increase in telnet and ssh probes. School's out and the kiddies are at play. On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 nate@refried.org wrote: > Has anyone else been getting these messages in their logs? It's mostly > attempts to log in as "guest" or "test" through SSH. > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:02:16PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Jul 27 10:26:22 candle sshd[4246]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 3995 ssh2 > > Jul 27 10:26:24 candle sshd[4248]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4068 ssh2 > > Jul 27 10:50:50 candle sshd[4343]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 4587 ssh2 > > Jul 27 10:50:52 candle sshd[4345]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4666 ssh2 > > Jul 27 10:50:52 candle sshd[4347]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 4687 ssh2 > > Jul 27 10:50:54 candle sshd[4349]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4768 ssh2 > On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 06:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Aug 3 12:07:08 candle sshd[7004]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 54042 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:11 candle sshd[7006]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 24.100.69.192 port 54155 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:15 candle sshd[7008]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > > Aug 3 12:07:15 candle sshd[7008]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 54242 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:19 candle sshd[7010]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > > Aug 3 12:07:19 candle sshd[7010]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 54318 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:25 candle sshd[7012]: Failed password for illegal user user from 24.100.69.192 port 54515 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:31 candle sshd[7014]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54641 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:36 candle sshd[7016]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54827 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:42 candle sshd[7018]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54952 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:07:47 candle sshd[7020]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 55078 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:10:37 candle sshd[7036]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 59539 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:10:40 candle sshd[7038]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 24.100.69.192 port 59621 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:10:43 candle sshd[7040]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > > Aug 3 12:10:43 candle sshd[7040]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 59708 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:10:50 candle sshd[7042]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 > > Aug 3 12:10:50 candle sshd[7042]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 59778 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:10:58 candle sshd[7044]: Failed password for illegal user user from 24.100.69.192 port 59855 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:10:59 candle sshd[7046]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59874 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:11:00 candle sshd[7048]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59892 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:11:01 candle sshd[7050]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59904 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:11:02 candle sshd[7052]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 59917 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:46:50 candle sshd[7187]: Failed password for illegal user test from 80.23.107.114 port 56089 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:46:52 candle sshd[7189]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 80.23.107.114 port 56149 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:46:53 candle sshd[7191]: Illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 > > Aug 3 12:46:53 candle sshd[7191]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 port 56212 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:46:55 candle sshd[7193]: Illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 > > Aug 3 12:46:55 candle sshd[7193]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 port 56272 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:46:57 candle sshd[7195]: Failed password for illegal user user from 80.23.107.114 port 56337 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:46:58 candle sshd[7197]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56393 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:47:00 candle sshd[7199]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56452 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:47:02 candle sshd[7201]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56496 ssh2 > > Aug 3 12:47:05 candle sshd[7203]: Failed password for illegal user test from 80.23.107.114 port 56536 ssh2 > On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 11:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Aug 6 17:42:34 candle sshd[24161]: Failed password for illegal user test from 132.248.225.118 port 40370 ssh2 > > Aug 6 17:42:35 candle sshd[24163]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 40404 ssh2 > > Aug 6 17:45:12 candle sshd[24179]: Failed password for illegal user test from 132.248.225.118 port 41995 ssh2 > > Aug 6 17:45:13 candle sshd[24181]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 42021 ssh2 > On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 08:02:16AM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > > Security Events > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Aug 7 02:32:54 candle sshd[29659]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.19.212.18 port 55079 ssh2 > > > Nate > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Sat Aug 7 11:41:24 2004 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OFFTOPIC] XP SP2 anyone....? [CLOSED] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 11:56:02 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OFFTOPIC] XP SP2 anyone....? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <853e1ecc04080709561b06bca3@mail.gmail.com> http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Aug 7 12:07:22 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408071707.i77H7MI17219@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Sony Clie SJ-30 I'm selling my Sony Clie SJ30. It includes the PDA, power brick and USB cable, as well as a 32 meg memory stick and some screen protectors. I've had it for about two years, I think, but haven't used it too much. On eBay these go for $80 and up; I'm asking $75 OBO. I'm also willing to do some trading...I'm looking for various computer parts, books, DVDs, and other geeky things. Email me if you're interested. Seller Email address: tclug-classified at dandrake dot org http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at joshwelch.com Sat Aug 7 14:44:12 2004 From: tclug at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] What are these SSH probes? In-Reply-To: <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> References: <20040807080216.30230.qmail@refried.org> <20040806230215.24721.qmail@refried.org> <20040803180215.7763.qmail@refried.org> <20040727160216.4862.qmail@refried.org> <20040807141330.GA1758@refried.org> Message-ID: <4115310C.3080301@joshwelch.com> nate@refried.org wrote: > Has anyone else been getting these messages in their logs? It's mostly > attempts to log in as "guest" or "test" through SSH. > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:02:16PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > >>Security Events >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>Jul 27 10:26:22 candle sshd[4246]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 3995 ssh2 >>Jul 27 10:26:24 candle sshd[4248]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4068 ssh2 >>Jul 27 10:50:50 candle sshd[4343]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 4587 ssh2 >>Jul 27 10:50:52 candle sshd[4345]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4666 ssh2 >>Jul 27 10:50:52 candle sshd[4347]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.109.156.5 port 4687 ssh2 >>Jul 27 10:50:54 candle sshd[4349]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 61.109.156.5 port 4768 ssh2 > > On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 06:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > >>Security Events >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>Aug 3 12:07:08 candle sshd[7004]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 54042 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:11 candle sshd[7006]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 24.100.69.192 port 54155 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:15 candle sshd[7008]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 >>Aug 3 12:07:15 candle sshd[7008]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 54242 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:19 candle sshd[7010]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 >>Aug 3 12:07:19 candle sshd[7010]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 54318 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:25 candle sshd[7012]: Failed password for illegal user user from 24.100.69.192 port 54515 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:31 candle sshd[7014]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54641 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:36 candle sshd[7016]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54827 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:42 candle sshd[7018]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 54952 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:07:47 candle sshd[7020]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 55078 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:10:37 candle sshd[7036]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 59539 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:10:40 candle sshd[7038]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 24.100.69.192 port 59621 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:10:43 candle sshd[7040]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 >>Aug 3 12:10:43 candle sshd[7040]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 59708 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:10:50 candle sshd[7042]: Illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 >>Aug 3 12:10:50 candle sshd[7042]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 24.100.69.192 port 59778 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:10:58 candle sshd[7044]: Failed password for illegal user user from 24.100.69.192 port 59855 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:10:59 candle sshd[7046]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59874 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:11:00 candle sshd[7048]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59892 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:11:01 candle sshd[7050]: Failed password for root from 24.100.69.192 port 59904 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:11:02 candle sshd[7052]: Failed password for illegal user test from 24.100.69.192 port 59917 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:46:50 candle sshd[7187]: Failed password for illegal user test from 80.23.107.114 port 56089 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:46:52 candle sshd[7189]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 80.23.107.114 port 56149 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:46:53 candle sshd[7191]: Illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 >>Aug 3 12:46:53 candle sshd[7191]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 port 56212 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:46:55 candle sshd[7193]: Illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 >>Aug 3 12:46:55 candle sshd[7193]: Failed password for illegal user admin from 80.23.107.114 port 56272 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:46:57 candle sshd[7195]: Failed password for illegal user user from 80.23.107.114 port 56337 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:46:58 candle sshd[7197]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56393 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:47:00 candle sshd[7199]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56452 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:47:02 candle sshd[7201]: Failed password for root from 80.23.107.114 port 56496 ssh2 >>Aug 3 12:47:05 candle sshd[7203]: Failed password for illegal user test from 80.23.107.114 port 56536 ssh2 > > On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 11:02:15PM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > >>Security Events >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>Aug 6 17:42:34 candle sshd[24161]: Failed password for illegal user test from 132.248.225.118 port 40370 ssh2 >>Aug 6 17:42:35 candle sshd[24163]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 40404 ssh2 >>Aug 6 17:45:12 candle sshd[24179]: Failed password for illegal user test from 132.248.225.118 port 41995 ssh2 >>Aug 6 17:45:13 candle sshd[24181]: Failed password for illegal user guest from 132.248.225.118 port 42021 ssh2 > > On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 08:02:16AM -0000, logcheck@refried.org wrote: > >>Security Events >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>Aug 7 02:32:54 candle sshd[29659]: Failed password for illegal user test from 61.19.212.18 port 55079 ssh2 > > > > Nate > Yep, getting them alot. Sans is reporting that it is very widespread, http://isc.sans.org, kicked up some time in July and has been steady since. Looks like random scanning for default accounts with weak passwords. Not a lot of information other than that. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com Sun Aug 8 09:28:30 2004 From: jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com (Jason Reynolds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OFFTOPIC] XP SP2 anyone....? In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04080709561b06bca3@mail.gmail.com> References: <853e1ecc04080709561b06bca3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4116388E.2090402@mn.rr.com> David Phillips wrote: >http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ > > > http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=23138&category=main _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Aug 8 12:58:52 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408081758.i78HwqF03979@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 200mhz Pentium for sale I have a 200 mhz pentium for sale. The system specs are: 200mhz Pentum 128mb ram 1gb hard drive Smc Nic(Isa) Ess Soundcard (Isa) 24x cd-rom *No operating System* Price: $20.00 Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From BrianToberman at netscape.net Sun Aug 8 15:06:00 2004 From: BrianToberman at netscape.net (Brian Toberman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pRINT SERVER SETUP Message-ID: <411687A8.90406@netscape.net> I just had DSL installed over here in Somerset, the system is a forwarding setup that uses the ISP as a DHCP server. I need to setup a print server on the network and it's just not working. -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Aug 8 16:39:15 2004 From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pRINT SERVER SETUP In-Reply-To: <411687A8.90406@netscape.net> References: <411687A8.90406@netscape.net> Message-ID: <41169D83.50408@comcast.net> Please don't tell me you have hooked your computer up directly to the DSL modem without a firewall between the DSL modem and your computer?!? Most ISP will only provide you with ONE (1) dynamic IP. If you want to have more than one IP available on your local network, you would have to have a DHCP server providing IPs for your local network. Most all-in-one firewall/switch devices from Linksys or Netgear will provide you with a firewall and 4 to 5 inside ports for your computers. Or you could use an old Pentium1 to create your own Linux firewall, either by building your own or using something like Smoothwall or IPCOP. Brian Toberman wrote: > I just had DSL installed over here in Somerset, the system is a > forwarding setup that uses the ISP as a DHCP server. I need to setup a > print server on the network and it's just not working. > -- Todd Young 7079 Dawn Ave. E. Inver Grove Heights, MN 55076 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sun Aug 8 21:37:23 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Help Message-ID: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> Been out of the computer world for over 3 years now being a stay-at-home dad: very rusty. Just got Fedora 2 installed on a new box and it's quite beautiful. We have a WinXP "home computer" that is doing our Internet. We "shared" the Internet on the XP box and the Fedora box is accessing Internet over the home LAN connection just fine set as DHCP. Now, how would I simply transfer files back and forth between boxes? Is this a Samba issue to get the XP box to see the Linux file system? Also, I'd want to run Apache on the Fedora box. What address would I give, say, a browser on the XP box to access the Fedora Web server across my LAN? Also, does Fedora 2 have a systems-wide true-type font adding utility, or is there a command line way to add fonts globally? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Aug 8 22:06:53 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408090306.i7936rr11883@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: Looking for farily new computer to buy I'm looking for a pretty recent computer PIV 1-2 Ghz or compatible preferred. Only requires: CPU and Mobo HD and Video card optional but would be nice. Don't need monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. Thanks! Josh Seller Email address: josh at trutwins dot homeip dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Sun Aug 8 21:56:47 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:26 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Help In-Reply-To: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: Yes, Samba for moving files - probably the easiest way to get samba setup is with swat (which comes with it?) I never really used swat, but it seemed to be all the hype when I had to make this work. The only tricky thing here may be in getting XP to talk nice to it - I haven't set a Samba server up in years, and IIRC, there are a bunch of caveats with the authentication and encryption. Not sure if this ever got worked out (MS likes to change things and I don't think they realize that it breaks Samba) This was at least the case when I was setting it up against WinNT. From what I understand, XP and 2000's networking got even more convoluted... For Apache, your XP machine is probably pointing to CP Internet's dns servers, so you either need to access the linux machine by IP, or setup an entry in the hosts file in XP. If the system gets it's IP dynamically, this could be a problem. You didn't specify what was acting as the DHCP server, but if possible (if this is private address space), just hard code the IP in Linux (pick a high number, and as long as you're only running 1 or 2 DHCP clients this shouldn't be an issue), or if you have control of the DHCP server, define the linux machine's MAC address on the DHCP server with a specific IP address. Up all day and it's getting late, feel free to flame me with gross mistakes.../dev/null is getting empty. On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > Been out of the computer world for over 3 years now being a stay-at-home > dad: very rusty. Just got Fedora 2 installed on a new box and it's quite > beautiful. We have a WinXP "home computer" that is doing our Internet. > We "shared" the Internet on the XP box and the Fedora box is accessing > Internet over the home LAN connection just fine set as DHCP. Now, how > would I simply transfer files back and forth between boxes? Is this a > Samba issue to get the XP box to see the Linux file system? Also, I'd > want to run Apache on the Fedora box. What address would I give, say, a > browser on the XP box to access the Fedora Web server across my LAN? > Also, does Fedora 2 have a systems-wide true-type font adding utility, > or is there a command line way to add fonts globally? > > Olwe > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From linuxnews at hentzenwerke.com Sun Aug 8 22:27:25 2004 From: linuxnews at hentzenwerke.com (Whil Hentzen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Help In-Reply-To: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> References: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <200408082227.25535.linuxnews@hentzenwerke.com> > Also, does Fedora 2 have a systems-wide true-type font adding utility, > or is there a command line way to add fonts globally? I've run into the same question, and wrote up a whitepaper on how to do this. http://www.hentzenwerke.com/wp/installing_ttfonts.htm There are some other references included in the whitepaper as well. Let me know if this helps (or if it doesn't, and what questions you still have!) -- Whil Moving to Linux: Freedom, Choice, Security, Opportunity http://www.hentzenwerke.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Sun Aug 8 23:11:31 2004 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multiple (physical) webservers behind a firewall In-Reply-To: <20040726155246.GA12975@wookimus.net> References: <20040726155246.GA12975@wookimus.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:52:46 -0500, Chad Walstrom wrote: > johnnyfulcrum wrote: >> I've been using IPCop as a firewall at home, and have been able to >> route web traffic to a box in the DMZ. Now I have multiple web >> servers running on different boxes and need to route throught the >> firewall - IPCop seems to be able to redirect to just one box (port >> 80). Is there a firewall solution that allows me to route web >> traffic many physical boxes behind a firewall? > > Depends upon what you're trying to do. Are each of these webservers > separate sites or the same setup with NameVirtualServer. Each is a separate site, with different public IP address, running on different boxes and running different webserver software. Has anyone used Mandrake Multi Network Firewall? At first glance it would seem that it'd do what I needed - all in one swift blow - at least get me up and going with a POC in a short time... > If each server > has a different public IP address, you need create interface aliases on > the external interface, then DNAT based on destination IP address. > > If you're doing a round-robin setup where each box can equally server > any site, you need to use Linux advanced routing utilities. Here's the > authoritative website for the HOWTO: > > http://lartc.org/ > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Aug 9 10:39:30 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Java Classes Message-ID: I mean the kind you sit down in a room with students and a teacher and learn about Java. Does anyone have any recommendations (or anti-recommendations) for local classes on begginning Java? If so, please do tell. Thank you in advance, Troy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Aug 9 10:38:45 2004 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pRINT SERVER SETUP In-Reply-To: <411687A8.90406@netscape.net> Message-ID: First and foremost, as Todd suggested, get some sort of firewall between you and the internet...now. D-Link, Linksys, Netgear, whatever firewall box works just fine. >From there, we need more information. What kind of print server? Printing from UNIX/Linux to UNIX/Linux to/from Windows (whaterver version here...). Then we need to know what print server software (*cough* CUPS *cough*), Linux distribution, etc... Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Brian Toberman wrote: | I just had DSL installed over here in Somerset, the system is a | forwarding setup that uses the ISP as a DHCP server. I need to setup a | print server on the network and it's just not working. | | -- | Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. | Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! | http://shopnow.netscape.com/ | | | _______________________________________________ | TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota | Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org | Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery | tclug-list@mn-linux.org | https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list | | !DSPAM:411689f5151726897535654! | _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Mon Aug 9 11:04:30 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Java Classes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anyone have any recommendations (or > anti-recommendations) for local classes on > begginning Java? If so, please do tell. Here's a recommendation: http://www.intertech-inc.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Mon Aug 9 11:10:19 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pRINT SERVER SETUP Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D6432B@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Zbikowski (Zibby) [mailto:zibby+tclug@ringworld.org] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:39 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] pRINT SERVER SETUP > > > Then we need to know what print server software (*cough* CUPS > *cough*), Linux distribution, etc... Didn't Eric Raymond just have a nice write up about the ease of configuring CUPS? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Aug 9 12:16:54 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Java Classes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: "Mike Bresnahan" > > Does anyone have any recommendations (or > > anti-recommendations) for local classes on > > begginning Java? If so, please do tell. > > Here's a recommendation: > > http://www.intertech-inc.com I took their Java training and easily passed Sun's certification test shortly thereafter. I found it to be very worthwhile. It's pricey, so it only makes financial sense if it's for your profession or you have a wad of cash to blow. Chris Schumann _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john4293 at tc.umn.edu Mon Aug 9 12:46:01 2004 From: john4293 at tc.umn.edu (Thomas Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users Message-ID: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> perhaps someone could correct me if i'm mistaken, but shouldn't i be able to 'give' ownership of a file i own to another user, without being root? in my case i'm doing some work on a web directory owned by my user. the http user needs to be able to write to some of the directories i am creating so i've been chown'ing them to http. So far i've had to su every time i do this but it seems like i should be able to do so without root privileges. the machine i'm working on is running slackware 8.1 if it makes a difference. Thomas Johnson -------------- john4293 at umn dot edu 763.458.9071 (cell) -------------- * if it's not broken, i haven't worked hard enough. * there is little truth in men but much cunning. -peter the great _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Mon Aug 9 12:52:56 2004 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Local Java Classes References: Message-ID: <4117B9F8.4024C316@ppdonline.com> We teach Java courses and our prices are reasonable - http://www.ppdonline.com Ben. Chris Schumann wrote: > > > From: "Mike Bresnahan" > > > > Does anyone have any recommendations (or > > > anti-recommendations) for local classes on > > > begginning Java? If so, please do tell. > > > > Here's a recommendation: > > > > http://www.intertech-inc.com > > I took their Java training and easily passed Sun's certification test > shortly thereafter. I found it to be very worthwhile. It's pricey, so it > only makes financial sense if it's for your profession or you have a wad > of cash to blow. > > Chris Schumann > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Aug 9 13:37:35 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users In-Reply-To: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu>; from john4293@tc.umn.edu on Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 12:46:01PM -0500 References: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20040809133735.A4957@thinkunix.net> Thomas Johnson wrote: > perhaps someone could correct me if i'm mistaken, but shouldn't i be able to 'give' ownership of a file i own to another user, without being root? in my case i'm doing some work on a web directory owned by my user. the http user needs to be able to write to some of the directories i am creating so i've been chown'ing them to http. So far i've had to su every time i do this but it seems like i should be able to do so without root privileges. the machine i'm working on is running slackware 8.1 if it makes a difference. It depends on the value of _POSIX_CHOWN_RESTRICTED which is set in /usr/include/bits/posix_opt.h on recent distros. where x = 1 = BSD style - only root can chown away files 0 = System V - if user owns file then can chown it away This variable is set at compile time, so (to the best of my knowledge) you'd have to change that value and recompile the chown command to get the BSD behavior. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Aug 9 13:56:00 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users In-Reply-To: <20040809133735.A4957@thinkunix.net>; from scot@thinkunix.net on Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 01:37:35PM -0500 References: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> <20040809133735.A4957@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040809135600.A7878@thinkunix.net> Scot Jenkins wrote: > Thomas Johnson wrote: > > perhaps someone could correct me if i'm mistaken, but shouldn't i be able to 'give' ownership of a file i own to another user, without being root? in my case i'm doing some work on a web directory owned by my user. the http user needs to be able to write to some of the directories i am creating so i've been chown'ing them to http. So far i've had to su every time i do this but it seems like i should be able to do so without root privileges. the machine i'm working on is running slackware 8.1 if it makes a difference. > > It depends on the value of _POSIX_CHOWN_RESTRICTED which is set in > /usr/include/bits/posix_opt.h on recent distros. > > where x = 1 = BSD style - only root can chown away files > 0 = System V - if user owns file then can chown it away > > This variable is set at compile time, so (to the best of my knowledge) > you'd have to change that value and recompile the chown command to get > the BSD behavior. slight correction, change the value to 0 and recompile for SysV behavior; you already have BSD behavior if you can't chown away. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Mon Aug 9 14:14:53 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E358@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> IIRC, this is not allowed to prevent people from being able to get around file quotas and make others users go over their quotas.... -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Johnson Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:46 PM To: TCLUG Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users perhaps someone could correct me if i'm mistaken, but shouldn't i be able to 'give' ownership of a file i own to another user, without being root? in my case i'm doing some work on a web directory owned by my user. the http user needs to be able to write to some of the directories i am creating so i've been chown'ing them to http. So far i've had to su every time i do this but it seems like i should be able to do so without root privileges. the machine i'm working on is running slackware 8.1 if it makes a difference. Thomas Johnson -------------- john4293 at umn dot edu 763.458.9071 (cell) -------------- * if it's not broken, i haven't worked hard enough. * there is little truth in men but much cunning. -peter the great _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at solobanjo.com Mon Aug 9 15:00:37 2004 From: tclug at solobanjo.com (Benjamin Flaming) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users In-Reply-To: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> References: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20040809150037.30e52a64.tclug@solobanjo.com> On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:46:01 -0500 Thomas Johnson wrote: > perhaps someone could correct me if i'm mistaken, but shouldn't i be able > to 'give' ownership of a file i own to another user, without being root? > in my case i'm doing some work on a web directory owned by my user. the > http user needs to be able to write to some of the directories i am > creating so i've been chown'ing them to http. So far i've had to su every > time i do this but it seems like i should be able to do so without root > privileges. the machine i'm working on is running slackware 8.1 if it > makes a difference. Imperfect, but functional, work-around: $ chmod a+w filename |) |)enji _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Mon Aug 9 16:50:45 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] chown'ing files between users In-Reply-To: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> References: <20040809124601.0a665340.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <853e1ecc040809145020568403@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:46:01 -0500, Thomas Johnson wrote: > perhaps someone could correct me if i'm mistaken, but shouldn't i > be able to 'give' ownership of a file i own to another user, > without being root? No. XSI-conformant systems do not allow it. This includes most anything derived from BSD including Darwin. Linux also does not allow it. On Solaris, the behavior can be set at runtime. > in my case i'm doing some work on a web directory owned by my > user. the http user needs to be able to write to some of the > directories i am creating so i've been chown'ing them to http. The best solution is to have the web server run CGI scripts as the owner of the script. This improves security for all users. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crc1021 at myrealbox.com Mon Aug 9 20:31:10 2004 From: crc1021 at myrealbox.com (Eric) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital picture organizer Message-ID: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> I'm curious, what programs do you use to archive and organize photos? I wrote a script to import photos from a digital camera that renames the files by the date and puts them in year/month/photo.jpg directory structure. I'd like an interactive (GUI) program that allows for editing the jpeg comment field, creates collection of photos, indexes the whole archive (date, and comment), and allow for searching of the archive. Eric _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Mon Aug 9 21:19:56 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:27 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital picture organizer In-Reply-To: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <411830CC.70204@tcq.net> Eric wrote: >I'm curious, what programs do you use to archive and organize photos? > >I wrote a script to import photos from a digital camera that renames the files by the date and puts them in year/month/photo.jpg directory structure. I'd like an interactive (GUI) program that allows for editing the jpeg comment field, creates collection of photos, indexes the whole archive (date, and comment), and allow for searching of the archive. > >Eric > > > You may be interested in IPTC - a standard for meta-information attached to photos. The topic comes up occasionally in a mail list that I follow, concerning how to save and extract names, comments etc from digital photos. There are some programs for this at sourceforge.net -- search for "iptc". Dunno if this is all you're looking for, but it may help with your indexing and searching. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Mon Aug 9 22:02:10 2004 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (cxobert@goldengate.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092106930.41183ab21d333@rain.goldengate.net> Does anyone have a suggestion for a good, inexpensive sound card to use with Linux? For now I am wanting to use a stereo line-in to record old tapes and records to digital to burn to CD. Eventually I will want to do live instrument recording with microphone, with minimal track noise. I have a built-in card on my motherboard, but I cannot get it to record at all with any Linux distro I have tried, and it gives only so-so recordings under M&, so I'm looking for alternatives. Suggestions, anyone? Thanks in advance, Charlie Obert Apprentice _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Aug 9 22:20:20 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? In-Reply-To: <1092106930.41183ab21d333@rain.goldengate.net> References: <1092106930.41183ab21d333@rain.goldengate.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:02:10 -0600, cxobert@goldengate.net wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for a good, inexpensive sound card to > use with Linux? I bought one of these from General Nanosystems a few years ago, and it has worked flawlessly in one of my linux systems for both playback and recording: http://www.nanosys1.com/snd-ch-6chnl.html -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Mon Aug 9 22:39:37 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital picture organizer In-Reply-To: <411830CC.70204@tcq.net> References: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <411830CC.70204@tcq.net> Message-ID: <41184379.3050604@tcq.net> Kraig Jones wrote: > Eric wrote: > >> I'm curious, what programs do you use to archive and organize photos? >> >> I wrote a script to import photos from a digital camera that renames >> the files by the date and puts them in year/month/photo.jpg directory >> structure. I'd like an interactive (GUI) program that allows for >> editing the jpeg comment field, creates collection of photos, indexes >> the whole archive (date, and comment), and allow for searching of the >> archive. >> Eric >> >> >> > You may be interested in IPTC - a standard for meta-information > attached to photos. The topic comes up occasionally in a mail list > that I follow, concerning how to save and extract names, comments etc > from digital photos. There are some programs for this at > sourceforge.net -- search for "iptc". Dunno if this is all you're > looking for, but it may help with your indexing and searching. > > Kraig > P.S. found through Sourceforge search: http://herrmanns-stern.de/software/mapivi/mapivi.shtml _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Tue Aug 10 00:48:00 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Help In-Reply-To: <200408082227.25535.linuxnews@hentzenwerke.com> References: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> <200408082227.25535.linuxnews@hentzenwerke.com> Message-ID: <1092116880.28102.9.camel@bigtime> > > Also, does Fedora 2 have a systems-wide true-type font adding utility, > > or is there a command line way to add fonts globally? > > I've run into the same question, and wrote up a whitepaper on how to do this. > > http://www.hentzenwerke.com/wp/installing_ttfonts.htm > > There are some other references included in the whitepaper as well. Let me > know if this helps (or if it doesn't, and what questions you still have!) This covers xfs, which is completely unused by most things on a Fedora Core system. On current distributions, you can just create the directory ~/.fonts and fonts in there. Or for system wide, as root, "mkdir /usr/ share/fonts/local", chown it to someone other than root if you'd like, then put additional fonts there. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Aug 10 07:21:18 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E046@owa.compellent.com> I've had bad experiences with C-Media. Their audio quality is just crap. I have an older Ensoniq based Creative labs card that you can have for $5 It's PCI. It's basic stereo with no real frills, but the audio quality is pretty good. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Anderson Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:20 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:02:10 -0600, cxobert@goldengate.net wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for a good, inexpensive sound card to > use with Linux? I bought one of these from General Nanosystems a few years ago, and it has worked flawlessly in one of my linux systems for both playback and recording: http://www.nanosys1.com/snd-ch-6chnl.html -Erik _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Tue Aug 10 08:07:36 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? In-Reply-To: <1092106930.41183ab21d333@rain.goldengate.net> References: <1092106930.41183ab21d333@rain.goldengate.net> Message-ID: <4118C898.6060006@b-o-b.homelinux.com> cxobert@goldengate.net wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for a good, inexpensive sound card to > use with Linux? > > For now I am wanting to use a stereo line-in to record old tapes and records > to digital to burn to CD. I have a similar setup here. I am currently using a SB Live, and it works great. I used to have a SB512, and a SB128 prior to that. They all worked fine for recording things. These cards are getting a little dated now, so you should be able to find them pretty cheap. Rock-N-Roll, Robert De Mars -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Tue Aug 10 08:35:49 2004 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU In-Reply-To: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> References: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4118CF35.40605@veldy.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veldy at veldy.net Tue Aug 10 08:42:10 2004 From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] is this a hyperthreading CPU In-Reply-To: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> References: <20040805171415.6e355f4a.john4293@tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4118D0B2.8090702@veldy.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Aug 10 09:17:33 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: digital picture organizer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:31:10 -0500 > From: Eric > I'm curious, what programs do you use to archive and organize photos? > > I wrote a script to import photos from a digital camera that renames the > files by the date and puts them in year/month/photo.jpg directory > structure. I'd like an interactive (GUI) program that allows for > editing the jpeg comment field, creates collection of photos, indexes > the whole archive (date, and comment), and allow for searching of the > archive. I use gallery. I think it was suggested on this list not too long ago. It has a web-based GUI and allows you to add comments and descriptions. It can search those items. It will automatically generate thumbnails, has several color schemes and allows viewers to order prints online, or download the full-resolution version to print as they like. It has roles so you can have several separate albums, each with their own owner, and people can make an account and add comments. GPL and in PHP. http://gallery.menalto.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Tue Aug 10 09:31:16 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? In-Reply-To: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> I see from google (all hail google) that someone has already addressed the problem of the RIAA curve when recording from a turntable to a soundcard. What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. Thanks, Steve Linabery On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 09:02:10PM -0600, cxobert@goldengate.net wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for a good, inexpensive sound card to > use with Linux? > > For now I am wanting to use a stereo line-in to record old tapes and records > to digital to burn to CD. > > Eventually I will want to do live instrument recording with microphone, with > minimal track noise. > > I have a built-in card on my motherboard, but I cannot get it to record at all > with any Linux distro I have tried, and it gives only so-so recordings under M&, > so I'm looking for alternatives. > > Suggestions, anyone? > > Thanks in advance, > > Charlie Obert > Apprentice > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 10 10:41:38 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital picture organizer In-Reply-To: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <16664.60594.547709.20896@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I've been using album from MarginalHacks to build the albums for me, and using photopc to set up for it. It's pretty much command-line, though, rather than GUI. Perhaps gphoto2 would do what you want? r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Tue Aug 10 12:32:42 2004 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:28 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040810123242.08d07783.ston0235@umn.edu> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:31:16 -0500 Steve Linabery wrote: > What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would > *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. I hear good things about an old program called gramofile. http://panic.et.tudelft.nl/~costar/gramofile/ http://packages.debian.org/testing/sound/gramofile I've been wanting to try it out for a couple of years, but have never replaced my broken turntable so I have no personal experience with it. Ian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Tue Aug 10 12:38:09 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? In-Reply-To: <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040810173809.GB3686@dandrake.org> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Aug 10 12:43:32 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS Message-ID: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Found this little nugget searching for an Apache rewrite rule to stop these annoying 8000 character line log entries for idiots trying to exploit an IIS vulnerability and thought I'd share: RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_vti_bin\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/scripts\/\.\.(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_mem_bin\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/msadc\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/MSADC\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/c\/winnt\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/d\/winnt\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/x90\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Tue Aug 10 12:57:01 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:32:42PM -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:31:16 -0500 > Steve Linabery wrote: > > > What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would > > *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. > > I hear good things about an old program called gramofile. > > http://panic.et.tudelft.nl/~costar/gramofile/ > http://packages.debian.org/testing/sound/gramofile > > I've been wanting to try it out for a couple of years, but have never > replaced my broken turntable so I have no personal experience with it. > > Ian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list in response to Dan's question about hardware only; yeah, I was hoping I could just plug the turntable into the soundcard and the software would apply some filter to the signal to reproduce the RIAA curve. That way my laziness could be completely indulged; I wouldn't have to pull my old receiver out of its rack (it's nowhere near my box). but seeing no reference to the RIAA curve in my cursory search (that phrase still makes me think of zork...or deadline, or whichever game one did cursory searches in) of the gramofile online docs, I'm guessing that I will have to actually expend some effort to get what I want. Yuck! :) thanks steve -- Steve Linabery, sysadmin/developer World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Aug 10 13:13:17 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:43:32PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Found this little nugget searching for an Apache rewrite rule to stop these annoying 8000 character line log entries for idiots trying to exploit an IIS vulnerability and thought I'd share: > > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_vti_bin\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/scripts\/\.\.(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_mem_bin\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/msadc\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/MSADC\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/c\/winnt\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/d\/winnt\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/x90\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com > > > Josh > Thanks. Looks useful. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 http://www.linuxforbusiness.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Aug 10 13:23:33 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:13:17 -0500 James Kaufman wrote: > On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:43:32PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > Found this little nugget searching for an Apache rewrite rule to > > stop these annoying 8000 character line log entries for idiots > > trying to exploit an IIS vulnerability and thought I'd share: > > > > > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_vti_bin\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/scripts\/\.\.(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_mem_bin\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/msadc\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/MSADC\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/c\/winnt\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/d\/winnt\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/x90\/(.*)$ > > http://www.microsoft.com > > > > > > Josh > > > > Thanks. Looks useful. I'm actually having some trouble trying to test this on some rules. I changed it to: RedirectMatch permanent .*cmd.exe.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*root.exe.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*shell.exe.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*default.ida.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/_vti_bin/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/scripts/...*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/_mem_bin/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/_vti_.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/msadc/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/MSADC/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/msadcs.dll.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*nsiislog.dll.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/c/winnt/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/d/winnt/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent .*/x90/.*$ http://www.microsoft.com/ and when I call http://trutwins.homeip.net/default.ida I get redirected to ms.com, but not when I call http://trutwins.homeip.net/cmd.exe Odd. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Aug 10 13:23:06 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <61602.12.47.38.130.1092162186.squirrel@12.47.38.130> I've had fairly good luck with the Goldwave / Razorlame combination. > On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:32:42PM -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:31:16 -0500 >> Steve Linabery wrote: >> >> > What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would >> > *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Aug 10 13:31:48 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <5437.12.47.38.130.1092162708.squirrel@12.47.38.130> 'haven't done a lot recompiling Apache. Where is this code placed? > On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:43:32PM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: >> Found this little nugget searching for an Apache rewrite rule to stop >> these annoying 8000 character line log entries for idiots trying to >> exploit an IIS vulnerability and thought I'd share: >> >> >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_vti_bin\/(.*)$ >> http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/scripts\/\.\.(.*)$ >> http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/_mem_bin\/(.*)$ >> http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/msadc\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/MSADC\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/c\/winnt\/(.*)$ >> http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/d\/winnt\/(.*)$ >> http://www.microsoft.com >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)\/x90\/(.*)$ http://www.microsoft.com >> >> >> Josh >> > > Thanks. Looks useful. > > -- > Jim Kaufman > Linux Evangelist > public key 0x6D802619 > http://www.linuxforbusiness.net > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue Aug 10 13:51:45 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <5437.12.47.38.130.1092162708.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <5437.12.47.38.130.1092162708.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <20040810135145.000074da@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:31:48 -0500 (CDT) "Garrett Krueger" wrote: > 'haven't done a lot recompiling Apache. Where is this code placed? It goes right in httpd.conf. Needs to have mod_rewrite and mod_alias modules. You can check if it has static module support comipiled in with "httpd -l" or for dynamic shared object modules by looking in the apache modules directory to see if there is a .so for the module (e.g mod_rewrite.so) and making sure the config file loads the module: LoadModule rewrite_module modules/mod_rewrite.so Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue Aug 10 13:56:04 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] suggest a good sound card? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:38:09 -0500 > From: Dan Drake > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 at 09:31AM -0500, Steve Linabery wrote: > > I see from google (all hail google) that someone has already addressed > > the problem of the RIAA curve when recording from a turntable to a > > soundcard. > > Is this a software-only solution? 'cause I would have thought you would > just get a separate phono preamp, or pipe the signal through a receiver > that has a phono preamp built in. A software-only solution would be > nice. You can't get something for nothing. In this case, it is my opinion that you will lose a lot of information capturing without a phono preamp. To capture properly, you must never overdrive your inputs past 0dB. And yet, with no preamp, the high frequency components will be much larger than the low frequency components. This means you'll necessarily have to either interpolate the low frequency signal and enhance any noise that occurs in that region, possibly even aliasing the noise into higher frequencies. Depending on the quality of the vinyl, turntable, needle and cartridge, you may want a VERY good preamp or just a cheapy. Radio Shack makes one for $25, and you can spend over $1000 if you like. Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 10 14:01:56 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <16665.7076.85992.941688@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Linabery writes: Steve> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:32:42PM -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:31:16 -0500 >> Steve Linabery wrote: >> > What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would >> > *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. >> >> I hear good things about an old program called gramofile. >> >> http://panic.et.tudelft.nl/~costar/gramofile/ >> http://packages.debian.org/testing/sound/gramofile [...snip...] Steve> in response to Dan's question about hardware only; yeah, I Steve> was hoping I could just plug the turntable into the Steve> soundcard and the software would apply some filter to the Steve> signal to reproduce the RIAA curve. That way my laziness Steve> could be completely indulged; I wouldn't have to pull my Steve> old receiver out of its rack (it's nowhere near my box). I'm not at all an audiophile, so this is really seat of the pants, but AFAICT you need to push the signal through a receiver. Yes, it's a nuisance. If you find out a way to do this just plugging in RCA jacks, please let us all know!!! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Aug 10 14:42:47 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E0DC@owa.compellent.com> Here is the curve formula and dB data. You can adjust your equalizer accordingly. http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of rpgoldman@real-time.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 2:02 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Linabery writes: Steve> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:32:42PM -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:31:16 -0500 >> Steve Linabery wrote: >> > What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would >> > *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. >> >> I hear good things about an old program called gramofile. >> >> http://panic.et.tudelft.nl/~costar/gramofile/ >> http://packages.debian.org/testing/sound/gramofile [...snip...] Steve> in response to Dan's question about hardware only; yeah, I Steve> was hoping I could just plug the turntable into the Steve> soundcard and the software would apply some filter to the Steve> signal to reproduce the RIAA curve. That way my laziness Steve> could be completely indulged; I wouldn't have to pull my Steve> old receiver out of its rack (it's nowhere near my box). I'm not at all an audiophile, so this is really seat of the pants, but AFAICT you need to push the signal through a receiver. Yes, it's a nuisance. If you find out a way to do this just plugging in RCA jacks, please let us all know!!! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Aug 10 15:02:25 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:29 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <16665.7076.85992.941688@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> <16665.7076.85992.941688@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <17111.12.47.38.130.1092168145.squirrel@12.47.38.130> I've got a setup at home where my soundcard is connected to a receiver as is a turntable and dual tape deck. From there, it's a matter of playing with settings. You can buy (which is how I did it) or make Y-connectors which is a pair of RCA jacks on one end and a mini-stereo connector (for the audio card) on the other end to hook your sound card through the receiver. >>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Linabery writes: > I'm not at all an audiophile, so this is really seat of the pants, but > AFAICT you need to push the signal through a receiver. Yes, it's a > nuisance. If you find out a way to do this just plugging in RCA > jacks, please let us all know!!! > > R > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Aug 10 14:47:53 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E0E4@owa.compellent.com> Oh, audacity has the RIAA curve pre-defined. Just go into effect, then equalization, click RIAA and then load predefined. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of rpgoldman@real-time.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 2:02 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Linabery writes: Steve> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:32:42PM -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:31:16 -0500 >> Steve Linabery wrote: >> > What software do people use to do vinyl-to-digital capture? I would >> > *love* to digitize my extensive LP collection. >> >> I hear good things about an old program called gramofile. >> >> http://panic.et.tudelft.nl/~costar/gramofile/ >> http://packages.debian.org/testing/sound/gramofile [...snip...] Steve> in response to Dan's question about hardware only; yeah, I Steve> was hoping I could just plug the turntable into the Steve> soundcard and the software would apply some filter to the Steve> signal to reproduce the RIAA curve. That way my laziness Steve> could be completely indulged; I wouldn't have to pull my Steve> old receiver out of its rack (it's nowhere near my box). I'm not at all an audiophile, so this is really seat of the pants, but AFAICT you need to push the signal through a receiver. Yes, it's a nuisance. If you find out a way to do this just plugging in RCA jacks, please let us all know!!! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Tue Aug 10 14:57:33 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040810135145.000074da@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <5437.12.47.38.130.1092162708.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <20040810135145.000074da@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <13450.12.47.38.130.1092167853.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Thanks! > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:31:48 -0500 (CDT) > "Garrett Krueger" wrote: > >> 'haven't done a lot recompiling Apache. Where is this code placed? > > It goes right in httpd.conf. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 10 16:55:15 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <17111.12.47.38.130.1092168145.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> <16665.7076.85992.941688@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <17111.12.47.38.130.1092168145.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <16665.17475.840339.129997@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Garrett" == Garrett Krueger writes: Garrett> I've got a setup at home where my soundcard is connected Garrett> to a receiver as is a turntable and dual tape deck. From Garrett> there, it's a matter of playing with settings. Garrett> You can buy (which is how I did it) or make Y-connectors Garrett> which is a pair of RCA jacks on one end and a mini-stereo Garrett> connector (for the audio card) on the other end to hook Garrett> your sound card through the receiver. Sorry; I wasn't clear enough. Yes, I know how to do the phono -> receiver -> sound card trick using Y-connectors. I just don't know if it's possible to dispense with the receiver. I'd love to if it was! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Tue Aug 10 18:54:20 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Help In-Reply-To: <1092116880.28102.9.camel@bigtime> References: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> <200408082227.25535.linuxnews@hentzenwerke.com> <1092116880.28102.9.camel@bigtime> Message-ID: <4119602C.3070307@cpinternet.com> Callum Lerwick wrote: >>>Also, does Fedora 2 have a systems-wide true-type font adding utility, >>>or is there a command line way to add fonts globally? >>> >>> >>I've run into the same question, and wrote up a whitepaper on how to do this. >> >>http://www.hentzenwerke.com/wp/installing_ttfonts.htm >> >>There are some other references included in the whitepaper as well. Let me >>know if this helps (or if it doesn't, and what questions you still have!) >> >> > >This covers xfs, which is completely unused by most things on a Fedora >Core system. On current distributions, you can just create the directory >~/.fonts and fonts in there. Or for system wide, as root, "mkdir /usr/ >share/fonts/local", chown it to someone other than root if you'd like, >then put additional fonts there. > > > > > xfs is "system-wide," right? Don't you need that to get TT fonts for Mozilla? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Aug 10 19:55:25 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408110055.i7B0tPo25577@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ECS Elitegroup A907 I have a ECS Elitegroup A907 for sale System Specs: 533mhz Transmeta ‘Crusoe’ CPU 128mb ram 20gb Hard Drive Cdrom (not sure what speed) *External Battery* (with cables) Windows Xp Home 4 Usb 2.0 ports Lan and 56k Modem Power cables included *no floppy* Price $ 575.00 or obo Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crc1021 at myrealbox.com Tue Aug 10 21:42:17 2004 From: crc1021 at myrealbox.com (Eric) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital picture organizer In-Reply-To: <41184379.3050604@tcq.net> References: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> <411830CC.70204@tcq.net> <41184379.3050604@tcq.net> Message-ID: <20040810214217.0234cb24.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Thanks, that looks like a good match for what I want. On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:39:37 -0500 Kraig Jones wrote: > http://herrmanns-stern.de/software/mapivi/mapivi.shtml > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Tue Aug 10 22:17:17 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) Message-ID: We're considering dropping our RH 7.2 colo setup for a dedicated server at ServerBeach. The Debian servers there come partitioned as 40MB /boot (hda1), 1GB swap (hda2), and the rest of the drive as / (hda3). I want to change the partitioning scheme, but I have to do it all remotely. What I've been practicing on a spare box here is deleting the swap and using debootstarp to install a base system on hda2, edit /etc on hda2 as necessary, editing menu.lst and rebooting with hda2 at / . The idea then is that I can delete hda3 and repartition it to my hearts content, debootstrap a system onto hda1 and my new partitions and go from there. When I use the debian installer on a bare system, there's a step where I tell it to add a module for the NIC card (eepro100). I don't get that step when I use "apt-get install kernel-image-xxx" during the debootstrap installation onto hda2. The problem I'm encountering is that when I reboot eth0 doesn't come up, so my remote work is finished.... I've tried skipping installing the kernel and seting up fstab to use /boot from hda1 (the existing installation) but it seems I'm missing some /lib/modules stuff on hda2 when I try that. I'm new to debian but already love apt-get. Is there any easy step I'm missing here or do I need to compile a kernel for my bootstrap installation while I'm chrooted in it? The specific error message I get is "eth0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device" and the procedure I'm using comes from http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-preparing.en.html section 3.7 Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Tue Aug 10 22:23:30 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules Message-ID: Sorry if this is a double post, forgot to add the subject line last time. ----------------- We're considering dropping our RH 7.2 colo setup for a dedicated server at ServerBeach. The Debian servers there come partitioned as 40 /boot (hda1), 1GB swap (hda2), and the rest of the drive as / (hda3). I want to change the partitioning scheme, but I have to do it all remotely. What I've been practicing on a spare box is deleting the swap and using debootstarp to install a base system on hda2, edit /etc on hda2 as necessary, editing menu.lst and rebooting with hda2 at / . The idea then is that I can delete hda3 and repartition it to my hearts content, debootstrap a system onto hda1 and my new partitions and go from there. When I use the debian installer on a bare system, there's a step where I tell it to add a module for the NIC card (eepro100). I don't get that step when I use "apt-get install kernel-image-xxx" during the debootstrap installation onto hda2. The problem I'm encountering is that when I reboot eth0 doesn't come up, so my remote work is finished.... I've tried skipping installing the kernel and seting up fstab to use /boot from hda1 (the existing installation) but it seems I'm missing some /lib/modules stuff on hda2 when I try that. I'm new to debian but already love apt-get. Is there any easy step I'm missing here or do I need to compile a kernel for my bootstrap installation while I'm chrooted in it? The specific error message I get is "eth0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device" and the procedure I'm using comes from http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-preparing.en.html section 3.7 Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Tue Aug 10 23:22:47 2004 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <41199F17.90903@info9.net> Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'm actually having some trouble trying to test this on some rules. I changed it to: > and when I call http://trutwins.homeip.net/default.ida I get redirected to ms.com, but not when I call http://trutwins.homeip.net/cmd.exe This looked like fun so I modified your matching somewhat (avoided full regexp's)... I have lots of examples in my logs to choose from...: # redirect M$ IIS probes RedirectMatch permanent ^/default.ida http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent ^/_vti_bin http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent ^/_mem_bin http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent ^/scripts http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent ^/msadc http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent ^/MSADC http://www.microsoft.com/ RedirectMatch permanent ^/\x90 http://www.microsoft.com/ # send them to bill # RedirectMatch permanent \.exe http://www.microsoft.com/ # send their message to bill RedirectMatch permanent (.*\.exe.*) http://www.microsoft.com$1 So all this really accomplishes is it gives them a 301 instead of a 302... You still get cruft in your logs. What I found amusing is that nearly ALL of the long URL probes (x90...) ALSO had probes on ports 1025 2745 3127 6129. Sure enough, google shows many people suspect this as a variant of MyDoom or Agobot/Gaobot. --Tom _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 23:46:49 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <853e1ecc040810214628a977f8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:23:30 -0500, Steve Swantz wrote: > The Debian servers there come partitioned as 40 /boot > (hda1), 1GB swap (hda2), and the rest of the drive as / (hda3). I want > to change the partitioning scheme, but I have to do it all remotely. It sounds like a lot of effort for something that isn't strictly necessary. Why do you feel such a strong need for a different partition scheme? -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at turbobit.com Tue Aug 10 21:04:08 2004 From: lists at turbobit.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040811020408.GA3910@dad1> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 10:23:30PM -0500, Steve Swantz wrote: > When I use the debian installer on a bare system, there's a step where > I tell it to add a module for the NIC card (eepro100). I don't get that > step when I use "apt-get install kernel-image-xxx" during the > debootstrap installation onto hda2. The problem I'm encountering is > that when I reboot eth0 doesn't come up, so my remote work is > finished.... > > I've tried skipping installing the kernel and seting up fstab to use > /boot from hda1 (the existing installation) but it seems I'm missing > some /lib/modules stuff on hda2 when I try that. Sounds like you just need to load the ethernet driver for the card you have. This is done in modules.conf: alias eth0 de4x5 But under Debian, you need to add each entry to an individual file under /etc/modutil/* then run update-modules and it writes a /etc/modules.conf. You could run lspci to determine the ethernet card driver needed, then look in lib/modules to make sure you have the module. > I'm new to debian but already love apt-get. Is there any easy step I'm > missing here or do I need to compile a kernel for my bootstrap > installation while I'm chrooted in it? > > The specific error message I get is "eth0: ERROR while getting > interface flags: No such device" and the procedure I'm using comes from > http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-preparing.en.html > section 3.7 > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Wed Aug 11 00:57:09 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc040810214628a977f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <853e1ecc040810214628a977f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> On Aug 10, 2004, at 11:46 PM, David Phillips wrote: > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:23:30 -0500, Steve Swantz > wrote: >> The Debian servers there come partitioned as 40 /boot >> (hda1), 1GB swap (hda2), and the rest of the drive as / (hda3). I want >> to change the partitioning scheme, but I have to do it all remotely. > > It sounds like a lot of effort for something that isn't strictly > necessary. Why do you feel such a strong need for a different > partition scheme? > From what I've read, I thought keeping /var on a separate partition was a good idea to prevent a runaway logging event from filling up anything other than /var. I did have a fastcgi restarting itself 5 times/second once (stupid bug) and came pretty close to filling /var before I realized it. Another reason is to have a file system problem on one partition separated from the other partitions. Am I off base? I'm getting pretty quick at deb installs now, it's not that much of a problem - other than eth0. I did manage to find the modconf package, installed it into the chrooted installation on hda2, ran /usr/sbin/modconf - got the screens I'm used to, but it failed afterwards with: ----- Installing module eepro100. If the device isn't there, or isn't configured correctly, this could cause your system to pause for up to a minute. Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/modules.dep /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/mii.o: cannot open /proc/ksyms No such file or directory /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: init_module: No such device Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including invalid IO or IRQ parameters. You may find more information in syslog or the output from dmesg /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: cannot open /proc/ksyms No such file or directory /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: insmod /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o failed /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: insmod eepro100 failed Installation failed. ------ /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o does exist in the chroot. /proc is mounted in the chroot environment, but there's nothing in it. I'm guessing at this point I just have to learn how to get this module configured manually, then reboot. /etc/fstab and the network settings were done manually, I guess this may have to be, too. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Wed Aug 11 01:22:10 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: ; from tclug@nwaalpa.org on Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 10:17:17PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20040811012210.B20285@thinkunix.net> Steve Swantz wrote: > When I use the debian installer on a bare system, there's a step where > I tell it to add a module for the NIC card (eepro100). I don't get that > step when I use "apt-get install kernel-image-xxx" during the > debootstrap installation onto hda2. The problem I'm encountering is > that when I reboot eth0 doesn't come up, so my remote work is > finished.... Is serial console an option? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Wed Aug 11 02:04:54 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20040811012210.B20285@thinkunix.net> References: <20040811012210.B20285@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: On Aug 11, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Steve Swantz wrote: >> When I use the debian installer on a bare system, there's a step where >> I tell it to add a module for the NIC card (eepro100). I don't get >> that >> step when I use "apt-get install kernel-image-xxx" during the >> debootstrap installation onto hda2. The problem I'm encountering is >> that when I reboot eth0 doesn't come up, so my remote work is >> finished.... > > Is serial console an option? > Not that I know of. Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Wed Aug 11 02:20:40 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:30 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: <20040811020408.GA3910@dad1> References: <20040811020408.GA3910@dad1> Message-ID: On Aug 10, 2004, at 9:04 PM, Karl Bongers wrote: > > Sounds like you just need to load the ethernet driver for the card > you have. This is done in modules.conf: > alias eth0 de4x5 > But under Debian, you need to add each entry to an individual file > under > /etc/modutil/* > then run update-modules and it writes a /etc/modules.conf. > You could run lspci to determine the ethernet card driver needed, > then look in lib/modules to make sure you have the module. > I do have /mnt/debinst/lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o I just tried: cp -R /etc/modutils/* /mnt/debinst/etc/modutils/ chroot /mnt/debinst/ /bin/bash update-modules and it didn't complain. Rebooted into the new installation and eth0 still didn't come up. I rummaged around all the /etc/module stuff in the primary installation, didn't see anything that looked like eepro100, yet the primary installation works fine. Not sure how it loads it. More stuff to learn. Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Wed Aug 11 07:38:32 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> References: <853e1ecc040810214628a977f8@mail.gmail.com> <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> Message-ID: <20040811073832.A2720@baker.space.umn.edu> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 12:57:09AM -0500, Steve Swantz wrote: > > From what I've read, I thought keeping /var on a separate partition was > a good idea to prevent a runaway logging event from filling up anything > other than /var. I did have a fastcgi restarting itself 5 times/second > once (stupid bug) and came pretty close to filling /var before I > realized it. Another reason is to have a file system problem on one > partition separated from the other partitions. Am I off base? If you just want a separate /var, couldn't you just use parted to shrink the /dev/hda3 ? -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at turbobit.com Wed Aug 11 05:00:26 2004 From: lists at turbobit.com (Karl Bongers) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> References: <853e1ecc040810214628a977f8@mail.gmail.com> <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> Message-ID: <20040811100026.GA4426@dad1> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 12:57:09AM -0500, Steve Swantz wrote: > I did manage to find the modconf package, installed it into the > chrooted installation on hda2, ran /usr/sbin/modconf - got the screens > I'm used to, but it failed afterwards with: > > ----- > Installing module eepro100. If the device isn't there, or isn't > configured correctly, this could cause your system to pause for up to a > minute. > > Note: /etc/modules.conf is more recent than > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/modules.dep > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/mii.o: cannot open > /proc/ksyms No such file or directory > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: init_module: > No such device > Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, > including invalid IO or IRQ parameters. > You may find more information in syslog or the output from dmesg > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: cannot open > /proc/ksyms No such file or directory > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: insmod > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o failed > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o: insmod > eepro100 failed > > Installation failed. > ------ You can't load driver modules in a chroot environment if the chroot kernel/modules don't exactly match what kernel is currently running. So at some point it is a leap of faith where you just have to reboot and hope it's configured to run. An alternative would be to setup some plug and pray package, which trys to do the hardware configuration on auto pilot, like Knoppix. I don't recall the package names in Debian to do this, they are there, I just don't have much experience with them so can't recommend much further. If your /proc is empty, then it's probably not mounted right. I sometimes have to mount proc after chroot: mount -t proc /proc /proc Then remember to unmount it before exit. > /lib/modules/2.4.26-1-386/kernel/drivers/net/eepro100.o does exist in > the chroot. > > /proc is mounted in the chroot environment, but there's nothing in it. > > I'm guessing at this point I just have to learn how to get this module > configured manually, then reboot. /etc/fstab and the network settings > were done manually, I guess this may have to be, too. > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Aug 11 08:33:31 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: References: <20040811020408.GA3910@dad1> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Steve Swantz wrote: > and it didn't complain. Rebooted into the new installation and eth0 > still didn't come up. > > I rummaged around all the /etc/module stuff in the primary installation, > didn't see anything that looked like eepro100, yet the primary > installation works fine. Not sure how it loads it. On the primary partition, it'd most likely be in /etc/modules.conf, not /etc/modules. In any case, if adding it to /etc/modules or /etc/modutils/network doesn't fix it, you could install the 'discover' package - it's supposed to automatically find your hardware and load modules on bootup. I distrust it and prefer to configure things statically still, but that's just me. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Aug 11 08:31:39 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Steve Swantz wrote: > When I use the debian installer on a bare system, there's a step where I > tell it to add a module for the NIC card (eepro100). I don't get that > step when I use "apt-get install kernel-image-xxx" during the > debootstrap installation onto hda2. The problem I'm encountering is that > when I reboot eth0 doesn't come up, so my remote work is finished.... <...> > The specific error message I get is "eth0: ERROR while getting interface > flags: No such device" and the procedure I'm using comes from > http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-preparing.en.html section > 3.7 Have you added 'eepro100' to /etc/modules on the new system? I generally also create a file in /etc/modprobe.d or /etc/modutils (depending on 2.6 or 2.4 kernel) called 'network' that contains 'alias eth0 eepro100' and run 'update-modules'. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Aug 11 08:36:29 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <41199F17.90903@info9.net> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> Message-ID: <20040811133628.GA22168@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 11:22:47PM -0500, Tom Marble wrote: > This looked like fun so I modified your matching somewhat > (avoided full regexp's)... I have lots of examples in my logs > to choose from...: > > # redirect M$ IIS probes > RedirectMatch permanent ^/default.ida http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/_vti_bin http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/_mem_bin http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/scripts http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/msadc http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/MSADC http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/\x90 http://www.microsoft.com/ > # send them to bill > # RedirectMatch permanent \.exe http://www.microsoft.com/ > # send their message to bill > RedirectMatch permanent (.*\.exe.*) http://www.microsoft.com$1 > > So all this really accomplishes is it gives them a 301 instead of a 302... > You still get cruft in your logs. I'm sure those worms will all dutifully respect the 30x redirect and head straight to MS. :-) -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed Aug 11 09:03:58 2004 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ripping vinyl (WAS: suggest a good sound card?) In-Reply-To: <16665.17475.840339.129997@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <23531307.1092107531154.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810143116.GB27878@steve.worldcycling.com> <26023408.1092159381021.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040810175701.GB29585@steve.worldcycling.com> <16665.7076.85992.941688@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <17111.12.47.38.130.1092168145.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <16665.17475.840339.129997@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <411A274E.6090500@visi.com> I've got a little box that draws power off a USB connection that takes a phono input, does the RIAA equalization and then outputs it to the sound card. It came with some fairly decent software for cleaning up clicks, pops, etc. - all Windows based of course. I think it was around $50 for the whole setup. Although as someone pointed out, RatShack has a basic preamp for something like $25 which would be more cost effective for use with Linux. --rick rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: >>>>>>"Garrett" == Garrett Krueger writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> > > Garrett> I've got a setup at home where my soundcard is connected > Garrett> to a receiver as is a turntable and dual tape deck. From > Garrett> there, it's a matter of playing with settings. > > Garrett> You can buy (which is how I did it) or make Y-connectors > Garrett> which is a pair of RCA jacks on one end and a mini-stereo > Garrett> connector (for the audio card) on the other end to hook > Garrett> your sound card through the receiver. > >Sorry; I wasn't clear enough. Yes, I know how to do the phono -> >receiver -> sound card trick using Y-connectors. I just don't know if >it's possible to dispense with the receiver. I'd love to if it was! > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Wed Aug 11 09:18:07 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <41199F17.90903@info9.net> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> Message-ID: <20040811091807.000064a8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:22:47 -0500 Tom Marble wrote: > # redirect M$ IIS probes > RedirectMatch permanent ^/default.ida http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/_vti_bin http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/_mem_bin http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/scripts http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/msadc http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/MSADC http://www.microsoft.com/ > RedirectMatch permanent ^/\x90 http://www.microsoft.com/ > # send them to bill > # RedirectMatch permanent \.exe http://www.microsoft.com/ > # send their message to bill > RedirectMatch permanent (.*\.exe.*) http://www.microsoft.com$1 I wound up using this set of rules: RedirectMatch (.*)cmd\.exe(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)root\.exe(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)shell\.exe(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)\.dll(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)default\.ida(.*) http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)system32(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)_vti_(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)msadc(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)MSADC(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)winnt(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)_mem_bin(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)/scripts(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com RedirectMatch (.*)\/x90\/(.*)$ http://support.microsoft.com I'm still getting them damn x90's though so that rule probably isn't quite right, gonna try yours. Anytime one of those comes in one of my httpd process thrashes for about 2 minutes. > So all this really accomplishes is it gives them a 301 instead of a > 302... You still get cruft in your logs. To de-cruft your logs do something like this: SetEnvIf Request_URI "/default\.ida" exploit SetEnvIf Request_URI "/c/winnt" exploit etc. for each of the above rules, then to stop the log entries use: CustomLog /var/log/apache/access_log combined env=!exploit If you want to save the exploit attempts to a seperate log you can use: CustomLog /var/log/apache/attack_log combined env=exploit Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 10:23:05 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> References: <853e1ecc040810214628a977f8@mail.gmail.com> <48217386-EB5B-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04081108233761b783@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:57:09 -0500, Steve Swantz wrote: > From what I've read, I thought keeping /var on a separate partition was > a good idea to prevent a runaway logging event from filling up anything > other than /var. It can be a good idea, but there are other ways to do it. One way is to use multilog which is specifically designed to never fill your disk. With multilog you always know exactly how much space it will use. > Another reason is to have a file system problem on one > partition separated from the other partitions. Am I off base? I can't think of any other problems where a separate file system would help. Separate file systems have advantages, but in my opinion aren't worth that much effort. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Aug 11 10:30:43 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040811153043.GB4616@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Aug 11 10:35:31 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040811091807.000064a8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040811091807.000064a8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <20040811153531.GD4616@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Aug 11 10:54:54 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:31 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408111554.i7BFssU07769@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ibm desktop i have the following for sale: 1. Asus P5A mobo and AMD K6 400MHz, no memory $20 or b.o. 2. Gigabyte GA-6BXC mobo and Intel PIII 450MHz processor, no memory $20 or b.o. 3. IBM 300PL desktop, model 6872-V6U, PIII 500MHz, 192mb PC100, 10gb hdd, cd, integrated sound and nic $60 or b.o. Seller Email address: lombardo at evilcricket dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at sift.info Wed Aug 11 11:17:30 2004 From: rpgoldman at sift.info (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general Message-ID: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Do any of you develop software that must run on multiple linux distros? I'm trying to work with a company that distributes a simulator that runs on linux. Unfortunately, they have decided that their corporate standard distro is going to be arch. This is causing them no end of trouble internally, because they don't seem to be able to get a standard desktop everywhere (it's too easy to upgrade packages and not very pleasant to downgrade them, apparently). This may be a problem with source distros, or it may be incompetence; I don't know, and that's not really my problem. MY problem is that they keep squirting out software builds that are extremely difficult to run. I have a mix of Mandrake and Fedora boxes to run this stuff on, and everytime I get a new build, it's a mess. They use wxWidgets' libwx_base, which seems to have a bunch of incompatible versions with the same version number (!). But that's manageable; I just copy around a particular version, and I'm fine. But they also use libstdc++, and that's a total nightmare, since it seems to rely on other libraries. Bringing along a libstdc++.so just causes the load of that library to fail. I've been trying to get these guys to just statically compile the dang thing, but they don't seem to want to. Is there anything we can do short of that to manage these problems with the libraries? If things are this bad, how does ANYONE manage to distribute linux programs in binary? [I know, it would be great if they would distribute source, but they won't...] Just avoid libstdc++? Thanks! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Aug 11 11:23:41 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040811153531.GD4616@wookimus.net> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040811091807.000064a8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040811153531.GD4616@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040811162341.GA22610@botwerks.org> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Aug 11 11:30:18 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408111630.i7BGUIK09672@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Sun Microsystems E250 Server - Specs - 2X Ultra Sparc2 400MHz Processors. 1024 MB of Ram 6X 10 GB Seagate SCSI 3 Hard Drives CDROM Drive Keyboard Mouse PC compatible video card Has Solaris 8 installed. - Condition - Excellent Condition. - Price - I am selling the machine for $350.00 O.B.O. - Method of payment - I can only accept cash. - Reason for selling - There is nothing wrong whatsoever with the machine I just don't have time to work with it anymore and I want it to have a good home. Seller Email address: jlanpher at stealthnetworking dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Wed Aug 11 12:06:27 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1092243987.411a52130ff37@webmail.real-time.com> Weren't you just complaining about how hard it was to perform configuration management of Java applications? :) Static linking is probably the simplest solution, but since that has been ruled out, you aren't left with much. I've run into similar issues with the Java Development Kit in the past. At one time the JDK was linked against an ancient version of libstdc++ that was not binary compatible with newer versions. This caused some stability problems with a JNI shared library I was developing that was linked against the a newer version of libstdc++. I believe I solved my problem by statically linking to libstdc++. Unfortunately, I do not know how to solve this problem without static linking. I think you are stuck creating a binary package for every version of every distro you want to support, complete with all the proper dependency metadata. This endaevor will lead you into the dark corners of the APT, RPM, and .deb package tools. Have fun! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Aug 11 12:31:09 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > But they also use libstdc++, and that's a total nightmare, since it > seems to rely on other libraries. Bringing along a libstdc++.so just > causes the load of that library to fail. Most distributions do provide backwards-compatible versions of libstdc++; maybe if you got them to compile the copy they want to send out on an older distribution (like rh7.3), it'd be more compatible across the board? > I've been trying to get these guys to just statically compile the dang > thing, but they don't seem to want to. Is there anything we can do > short of that to manage these problems with the libraries? If things > are this bad, how does ANYONE manage to distribute linux programs in > binary? [I know, it would be great if they would distribute source, but > they won't...] Just avoid libstdc++? In my experience, most binary software is either statically linked, or linked against an old version of stdc++. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Aug 11 14:33:35 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040811193335.GJ4616@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 15:30:32 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04081113303ee81071@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:17:30 -0500, Robert P. Goldman wrote: > I've been trying to get these guys to just statically compile the dang > thing, but they don't seem to want to. Statically compiling is basically the only way to go unless you want to separate build packages for various distros and distro versions. You can statically link with some libraries and dynamically link with everything else. Here is an example of normal dynamic linking on a Debian box: $ g++ -c -o test.o test.cpp $ gcc -o test test.o -lstdc++ $ ldd ./test libstdc++.so.5 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5 (0x40029000) libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x400e2000) libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x40104000) libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x4010d000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000) $ strip test; wc -c test 24908 test This is static linking: (test.o compile is the same as above) $ gcc -o test test.o -Wl,-a,archive -lstdc++ -Wl,-a,shared $ ldd ./test libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40029000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000) $ strip test; wc -c test 386940 test This is the same as the above, but with dynamic linking of libm (which isn't actually used by the test program): $ gcc -o test test.o -Wl,-a,archive -lstdc++ -Wl,-a,shared -lm $ ldd ./test libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x40029000) libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x4004b000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000) $ strip test; wc -c test 386972 test -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Wed Aug 11 18:56:28 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <411AB22C.6030907@cpinternet.com> I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of issue? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Aug 11 19:19:57 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <411AB22C.6030907@cpinternet.com> References: <411AB22C.6030907@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <59847.12.47.38.130.1092269997.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Here's an interesting link to a step-by-step from a guy who's done what you wish to do. http://clevershark.com/index.php?section=articles&article=21 > I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to > ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow > with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it > on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of > issue? > > Olwe > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nathan at discombobulated.info Wed Aug 11 19:56:39 2004 From: nathan at discombobulated.info (Nathan Syverson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] digital picture organizer In-Reply-To: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> References: <20040809203110.145c75f6.crc1021@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <200408111956.44046.nathan@discombobulated.info> Just installed Suse 9.1 and am impressed with digiKam so far. NAS On Monday 09 August 2004 20:31, Eric wrote: > I'm curious, what programs do you use to archive and organize photos? > > I wrote a script to import photos from a digital camera that renames the > files by the date and puts them in year/month/photo.jpg directory > structure. I'd like an interactive (GUI) program that allows for editing > the jpeg comment field, creates collection of photos, indexes the whole > archive (date, and comment), and allow for searching of the archive. > > Eric > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list =2D-=20 ____________________________________________________________________________ Mandrake Linux 10.0 Here are our sea-washed sunset shores shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is imprisoned lightening, and her name Mother of Exiles.... "Keep, oh ancient lands your storied pomp!" she cries with silent lips, "Give me your tired, your poor your huddled masses longing to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teaming shores. Send me the homeless, the tempest-tossed to me I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" No como el gigante bronceado de fama griega, con las extremedades conquistantes sobre dos tierras aqu=ED en nuestros portales ocasales lavados or el mar se hallar=E1 una mujer poderosa con una antorcha, cuyo fuego es el rel=E1mapago encarcelado, y su nombre Madre de los Exhiliados. Desde la almenara de su mano brilla la bienvenida mundial, y sus ojos simpaticos mandan al puerto por su puente de aire tendido, que dos ciudades gemelas enmarcan, =2D-Guardan, o tierras ancianas, su pompa celebrada!-- grita con labios silenciosos. --D=E9nme los agobiados, los pobres,=20 la masa api=F1ada anhelando la libertad, los arrastrados rechazados de sus orillas abundantes. M=E1ndennme =E9stes, los sin casa, los arrojados por la temestad aqu=ED! Hac=EDa la puerta dorada levanto mi antorcha, que siempre brille ah=ED. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Wed Aug 11 22:42:18 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:32 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Deb bootstrap and kernel modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C043FDE-EC11-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> OK guys, I got the bootstrapped systems eth0 to come up. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. The step that got it going was to copy /etc/modules to /mnt/debinst/etc/modules, then add 'eepro100' to it. The curious thing is that the primary installation doesn't have an entry for 'eepro100' in /etc/modules. I'm wondering if there is a difference between the sarge net-install on the primary installation and the debootstrap sarge installation on /dev/sda2 regarding how they load modules. dmesg wasn't giving me any clues until I realized that menu.plist had / at sda2 and the bootstrap /etc/fstab had it on sda3. D'oh! Fixing that didn't give me eth0 but it did let me read see a complete dmesg. I've spent time wading through /etc/inittab and rc scripts trying to figure out how the primary installation loads the eepro100 modules to no avail. I'm including the end of dmesg for both installations below. I'm sure the difference will be obvious to one of you. Also, I also accidentally ran /etc/init.d/rcS when I meant to cat it, it gave some interesting output - 'Detecting hardware: e100 aic7xxx ide-scsi" Thanks again, Steve ----------------------------- dmesg from the primary installation: ... kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. EXT3 FS 2.4-0.9.19, 19 August 2002 on sd(8,3), internal journal Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4 ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx hda: SAMSUNG CD-ROM SN-124, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 hda: attached ide-cdrom driver. hda: ATAPI 24X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.12 kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds EXT3 FS 2.4-0.9.19, 19 August 2002 on sd(8,1), internal journal EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Intel(R) PRO/100 Network Driver - version 2.3.38-k1 Copyright (c) 2004 Intel Corporation e100: selftest OK. e100: eth0: Intel(R) PRO/100 Network Connection Hardware receive checksums enabled cpu cycle saver enabled e100: selftest OK. e100: eth1: Intel(R) PRO/100 Network Connection Hardware receive checksums enabled cpu cycle saver enabled scsi2 : SCSI host adapter emulation for IDE ATAPI devices eepro100.c:v1.09j-t 9/29/99 Donald Becker http://www.scyld.com/network/eepro100.html eepro100.c: $Revision: 1.36 $ 2000/11/17 Modified by Andrey V. Savochkin and others usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs usb.c: registered new driver hub uhci.c: USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v1.1 usb-uhci.c: $Revision: 1.275 $ time 12:50:46 Jul 22 2004 usb-uhci.c: High bandwidth mode enabled usb-uhci.c: v1.275:USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver e100: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Half duplex pizza:~# dmesg from the debootstrap installation, 'eepro100' appended to /etc/modules: ... kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. EXT3 FS 2.4-0.9.19, 19 August 2002 on sd(8,2), internal journal Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4 ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx hda: SAMSUNG CD-ROM SN-124, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 hda: attached ide-cdrom driver. hda: ATAPI 24X CD-ROM drive, 128kB Cache Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.12 eepro100.c:v1.09j-t 9/29/99 Donald Becker http://www.scyld.com/network/eepro100.html eepro100.c: $Revision: 1.36 $ 2000/11/17 Modified by Andrey V. Savochkin and others eth0: OEM i82557/i82558 10/100 Ethernet, 00:B0:D0:F3:98:2B, IRQ 16. Board assembly 02d484-000, Physical connectors present: RJ45 Primary interface chip i82555 PHY #1. General self-test: passed. Serial sub-system self-test: passed. Internal registers self-test: passed. ROM checksum self-test: passed (0x04f4518b). eth1: OEM i82557/i82558 10/100 Ethernet, 00:B0:D0:F3:98:2C, IRQ 17. Board assembly 02d484-000, Physical connectors present: RJ45 Primary interface chip i82555 PHY #1. General self-test: passed. Serial sub-system self-test: passed. Internal registers self-test: passed. ROM checksum self-test: passed (0x04f4518b). pizza:~# Finally, what happened when I ran /etc/init.d/rcS on the primary installation instead of 'cat'ing it. .... CONTROL-D will exit from this shell and continue system startup. Give root password for maintenance (or type Control-D to continue): Setting kernel variables ... ... done. Mounting local filesystems... Cleaning /tmp /var/run /var/lock. Detecting hardware: e100 aic7xxx ide-scsi Skipping already loaded module e100. Skipping already loaded module aic7xxx. Skipping already loaded module ide-scsi. Running 0dns-down to make sure resolv.conf is ok...done. Cleaning: /etc/network/ifstate. Starting hotplug subsystem: input input [failed] isapnp isapnp [success] net net [success] pci aic7xxx: already loaded aic79xx: can't be loaded missing kernel or user mode driver aic79xx eepro100: can't be loaded missing kernel or user mode driver eepro100 e100: already loaded pci [success] usb Bad USB agent invocation usb [success] done Setting up IP spoofing protection: rp_filter. Configuring network interfaces...Internet Software Consortium DHCP Client 2.0pl5 Copyright 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 The Internet Software Consortium. All rights reserved. Please contribute if you find this software useful. For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/dhcp-contrib.html Listening on LPF/eth0/00:b0:d0:f3:98:2b Sending on LPF/eth0/00:b0:d0:f3:98:2b Sending on Socket/fallback/fallback-net DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 3 DHCPOFFER from 192.168.2.1 DHCPREQUEST on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 DHCPACK from 192.168.2.1 SIOCADDRT: File exists bound to 192.168.2.65 -- renewal in 1055211139 seconds. done. Loading the saved-state of the serial devices... /dev/ttyS0 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A Setting the System Clock using the Hardware Clock as reference... System Clock set. Local time: Wed Aug 11 20:01:49 CDT 2004 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Wed Aug 11 22:46:46 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <20040811193335.GJ4616@wookimus.net> (message from Chad Walstrom on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:33:35 -0500) References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040811193335.GJ4616@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <200408120346.i7C3kkS31660@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> I'm trying to work with a company that distributes a simulator that >> runs on linux. Unfortunately, they have decided that their corporate >> standard distro is going to be arch. =20 Chad Walstrom wrote: >What is arch? http://www.archlinux.org/ >Anyway, it sounds like you have a mess. If they can't standardize >internally one ONE development platform or at least ONE development box, >then they're not going to last long. Pressure them into standardizing >the build process and build environment. > >If that doesn't work, see if you can convince them to install the >software in /opt/COMPANY/PACKAGE directories with package names that >include their company moniker: "company-packagename-version.rpm". That >way, they can install screwy binary package versions of libwhatever, >which they initialize with a simple sh/csh environment wrapper program. > >------------------------8<------------------------ >#!/bin/sh ># ># >CROOT=3D"/opt/COMPANY/" >CBIN=3D"${CROOT}/bin" >CLIB=3D"${CROOT}/lib" >export CROOT CBIN CLIB > >LD_LIBRARY_PATH=3D"${CROOT}/lib:${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}" >export LD_LIBRARY_PATH > >command=3D`basename $0` >${CBIN}/${command} $@ >------------------------8<------------------------ > >If the company wants to play nicely with distributions, then they have >to pay attention to being backwards and forwards compatible in a >consistent manner. It is important to standardize the build environment, just like every well built GNU/Linux package. In this case, it shouldn't matter which distribution is used. Arch Linux is as good a choice of distribution as any other, just not as popular as some ... maybe its a better choice for this company. There are two basic ways to approach distributions and the application to be implemented. Make your favourite distribution fit the application or pick a distribution that is the best fit for the application. For example, if your application were building a firewall, choose a firewall GNU/Linux distribution rather than turn your favourite GNU/Linux distribution into a firewall. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From seg at haxxed.com Thu Aug 12 03:22:26 2004 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Network Help In-Reply-To: <4119602C.3070307@cpinternet.com> References: <4116E363.4090706@cpinternet.com> <200408082227.25535.linuxnews@hentzenwerke.com> <1092116880.28102.9.camel@bigtime> <4119602C.3070307@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <1092298946.28102.100.camel@bigtime> > xfs is "system-wide," right? Don't you need that to get TT fonts for > Mozilla? Kinda. There are two completely separate font subsystems in use these days. There's the old core X11 fonts, which xfs is a part of. Core X11 can't do antialiasing, nor does it handle unicode efficiently. So this was replaced by the new fontconfig/xft2 system. This can do antialiasing. So basically, anything doing antialiasing is using xft2, which I described. Anything else is probably using core X fonts, which is handled through xfs. If you want your fonts to be accessible to both kinds of apps, you have to make them accessible to both xft2 and xfs... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 12 08:08:28 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <41199F17.90903@info9.net> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> Message-ID: <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:22:47 -0500 Tom Marble wrote: > RedirectMatch permanent ^/\x90 http://www.microsoft.com/ Does this one actually work? I just got another one of these buggers in my logs. With a tip from a TCPHP member I changed things to a more elegant: SetEnvIf Request_URI "/system32" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)\.dll(.*)" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/cmd\.exe" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/root\.exe" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/shell\.exe" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/default\.ida" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/c/winnt" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/d/winnt" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/msadc" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/MSADC" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/_vti_bin" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/_mem_bin" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "/scripts" exploit=1 SetEnvIf Request_URI "^/\x90" exploit=1 CustomLog /var/log/apache/access_log combined env=!exploit CustomLog /var/log/apache/ms_attack_log combined env=exploit RewriteCond %{ENV:exploit} 1 RewriteRule .* http://support.microsoft.com/ [R=permanent] Seems to catch everything except that huge \x90 thing, here's an excerpt: 24.203.61.31 - - [11/Aug/2004:13:48:04 -0500] "SEARCH /\x90\x02\xb1\x02\xb1\x02\xb1\x02\xb1..... Is it because it comes in on SEARCH? Or should the match be: "^/\\x90" I also tried this from a google search: SetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI "\/\x90\x02" exploit=1 But that doesn't seem to catch it either. And yeah, I'll probably change that to something other than support.microsoft.com once I'm done testing. :) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Aug 12 08:18:29 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36C@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it would void his warrenty with compaq. Just an FYI Dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of issue? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Aug 12 08:39:16 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E1F5@owa.compellent.com> You really gotta love companies that do this kind of thing.... -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Lansing, Dan Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:18 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it would void his warrenty with compaq. Just an FYI Dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of issue? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Thu Aug 12 08:58:01 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36C@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36C@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <411B7769.8090907@cpinternet.com> This has been going on for many years, even in the Windows world. Back in 1995, Microsoft's size and muscle was very much necessary to get Win 95 on the ground, as it had all kinds of install issues compared to Win 3.11. I worked for a university that wanted to upgrade and the main hardware contractor wouldn't go along or cooperate, wanting to void all the warranties on the machines it had sold us. Totally perposterous, since they would eventually have to switch to Win95 anyway. Similarly, I was tech support at Microsoft pre-Win95 and we'd typically rip out all non-Microsoft software on a caller's machine to make sure the Microsoft software in question wasn't somehow in conflict with it. Effectively, we were saying Windows only works for Microsoft products. LOL! Olwe Lansing, Dan wrote: >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq >laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found >out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he >removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it >would void his warrenty with compaq. >Just an FYI >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of >issue? > >Olwe > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Aug 12 09:11:34 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT was- Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36F@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Luckily my friend bought the compusa warrenty so the sales guy told home he could microwave the thing if he wanted to and they would pretty much support it, so he returned the compaq and bought a toshiba....bad idea to give your money to someone who tells you that you cant do what ever you want with what you spend your money on IMHO dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:58 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop This has been going on for many years, even in the Windows world. Back in 1995, Microsoft's size and muscle was very much necessary to get Win 95 on the ground, as it had all kinds of install issues compared to Win 3.11. I worked for a university that wanted to upgrade and the main hardware contractor wouldn't go along or cooperate, wanting to void all the warranties on the machines it had sold us. Totally perposterous, since they would eventually have to switch to Win95 anyway. Similarly, I was tech support at Microsoft pre-Win95 and we'd typically rip out all non-Microsoft software on a caller's machine to make sure the Microsoft software in question wasn't somehow in conflict with it. Effectively, we were saying Windows only works for Microsoft products. LOL! Olwe Lansing, Dan wrote: >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a >compaq laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they >found out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him >that if he removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in >anyway it would void his warrenty with compaq. Just an FYI >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 >on > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of >issue? > >Olwe > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Thu Aug 12 09:20:40 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: How can they tell if you had Linux installed on the computer and then wiped it out and put XP on it? In fact, as long as the hard drive isn't bad you could keep switching parts with the manufacturer without them knowing that you installed Linux. You might need to keep Windows around for running the stupid tests that they will ask you to run. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: Lansing, Dan [mailto:Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:18 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it would void his warrenty with compaq. Just an FYI Dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of issue? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Aug 12 09:34:03 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <20040812143403.GB11613@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Aug 12 09:35:01 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc04081113303ee81071@mail.gmail.com> References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <853e1ecc04081113303ee81071@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16667.32789.144023.665862@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Thanks, David. I'm not a big C++ programmer myself, so it's been hard to provide good productive suggestions to these collaborators. Cheers, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Aug 12 09:37:17 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: <200408120346.i7C3kkS31660@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040811193335.GJ4616@wookimus.net> <200408120346.i7C3kkS31660@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <16667.32925.560804.492335@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ken" == Ken Fuchs writes: >> Robert P. Goldman wrote: >>> I'm trying to work with a company that distributes a simulator that >>> runs on linux. Unfortunately, they have decided that their corporate >>> standard distro is going to be arch. =20 [..snip...] Ken> Chad Walstrom wrote: >> What is arch? Ken> http://www.archlinux.org/ Ken> It is important to standardize the build environment, just Ken> like every well built GNU/Linux package. In this case, it Ken> shouldn't matter which distribution is used. Arch Linux is Ken> as good a choice of distribution as any other, just not as Ken> popular as some ... maybe its a better choice for this Ken> company. I think it was actually a good choice for one person who was in the know and thought a source-based distro was fun... Ken> There are two basic ways to approach distributions and the Ken> application to be implemented. Make your favourite Ken> distribution fit the application or pick a distribution that Ken> is the best fit for the application. For example, if your Ken> application were building a firewall, choose a firewall Ken> GNU/Linux distribution rather than turn your favourite Ken> GNU/Linux distribution into a firewall. I agree. Some form of LiveCD seemed like a reasonable approach to take... best, r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Thu Aug 12 09:44:56 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:33 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get started. Olwers Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: >How can they tell if you had Linux installed on the computer and then wiped >it out and put XP on it? In fact, as long as the hard drive isn't bad you >could keep switching parts with the manufacturer without them knowing that >you installed Linux. > >You might need to keep Windows around for running the stupid tests that they >will ask you to run. > >Jeff Rasmussen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lansing, Dan [mailto:Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:18 AM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq >laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found >out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he >removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it >would void his warrenty with compaq. >Just an FYI >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of >issue? > >Olwe > > >_______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Aug 12 09:34:01 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] question about libstdc++ and multi-distro deployment in general In-Reply-To: References: <16666.18074.991795.466897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16667.32729.686294.957119@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "NC" == Nate Carlson writes: NC> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Robert P. Goldman wrote: >> But they also use libstdc++, and that's a total nightmare, since it >> seems to rely on other libraries. Bringing along a libstdc++.so just >> causes the load of that library to fail. NC> Most distributions do provide backwards-compatible versions of NC> libstdc++; maybe if you got them to compile the copy they want NC> to send out on an older distribution (like rh7.3), it'd be NC> more compatible across the board? I think that would be the sensible approach. The problem is their adoption of this source based distro which, afaict, doesn't help them maintain backward compatibility. For the interested, part of my problem was also their use of libwx_base --- version mismatches with that led us to try out different versions of THAT library, which pulled different versions of libstdc++.... The good news is that getting libwx_base dependencies managed actually resolved most of the difficult libstdc++ issues... Best, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Thu Aug 12 10:04:24 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E370@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Back on topic with this, I know my friend, had problems getting partition magic 8 to repartition the disk. This was the reason he called compaq and also why he ended up getting the toshiba. I couldn't talk him into using fdisk, as he was worried about loosing the data on his windows partition. But the compaq he had did not like partition magic and just spit a bunch of errors at him Dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get started. Olwers Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: >How can they tell if you had Linux installed on the computer and then >wiped it out and put XP on it? In fact, as long as the hard drive >isn't bad you could keep switching parts with the manufacturer without >them knowing that you installed Linux. > >You might need to keep Windows around for running the stupid tests that >they will ask you to run. > >Jeff Rasmussen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lansing, Dan [mailto:Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:18 AM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a >compaq laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they >found out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him >that if he removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in >anyway it would void his warrenty with compaq. Just an FYI >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 >on > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of >issue? > >Olwe > > >_______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tmarble at info9.net Thu Aug 12 05:11:05 2004 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> Josh Trutwin wrote: >>RedirectMatch permanent ^/\x90 http://www.microsoft.com/ > Does this one actually work? I just got another one of these buggers in my logs. It seemed to work for me... (did not confirm with an actual probe, however). > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access_log combined env=!exploit > CustomLog /var/log/apache/ms_attack_log combined env=exploit I like this trick... I'm now doing this to declutter my logs (and I only log the ip address and result code, not the whole URI in the exploit log). Chewie wrote: > As much as Microsoft may be the Big Bad Ugly(TM), simply dropping these > requests might be a more appropriate action. I'm sure we are all frustrated with these various attacks, but Chewie is right. This is some sort of virus probe and certainly is not going to "honor" redirect requests. Even though it's fun to make mod_rewrite do it's thing it really only contributes to the background noise on the net. I've taken out the redirects, but kept the URI exploit filter/logging. Regards, --Tom _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Aug 12 10:22:12 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop References: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <081301c48080$2753a960$0201a8c0@office> I taught a Linux class this summer and several of the students did install RedHat 9 on their laptops in a dual boot situation. (Used RH9 just because the text was based on that). These laptops were reasonably new (Dell, generic brand, and another main brand that I can not remember). One of them cleared off the HD and started over, the others worked for dual boot. Partitioning: Try SystemRescue CD (http://www.sysresccd.org/). You can download an iso and burn a CD ... from which you can boot. There is a partitioning tool on that ... free ... that will work with NTFS. I have not personally used that tool ... but I am assuming it works. I did do an install on an older laptop that had a FAT32 partition - I just used parted, which was part of the RH9 install process. My concern is always drivers ... many others here probably have more experience with the driver issue that I have when it comes to laptops ... I always worry about specific built in hardware and their drivers. Just my two cents worth. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olwe Melwasul" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on > a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk > rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get started. > > Olwers > > Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > > >How can they tell if you had Linux installed on the computer and then wiped > >it out and put XP on it? In fact, as long as the hard drive isn't bad you > >could keep switching parts with the manufacturer without them knowing that > >you installed Linux. > > > >You might need to keep Windows around for running the stupid tests that they > >will ask you to run. > > > >Jeff Rasmussen > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Lansing, Dan [mailto:Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com] > >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:18 AM > >To: TCLUG Mailing List > >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > > > > >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq > >laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found > >out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he > >removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it > >would void his warrenty with compaq. > >Just an FYI > >Dan > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul > >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM > >To: TCLUG Mailing List > >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > > > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > > > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to > >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > > > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow > >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it > >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of > >issue? > > > >Olwe > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 10:20:35 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> References: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:44:56 -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on > a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk > rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get started. Okay first I need to clarify something quick...Your laptop is not an "XP" laptop. It's an x86 processor-based laptop made by HP that happens to have XP installed on it. Now onto your question....if you want to dual-boot XP and linux, you're probably going to need a disk re-partitioning program like Partition Magic or the like. You'll use that program to shrink the XP partition to make room for 1 or more linux partitions. At the very least, you're going to need a partition for the root filesystem and one more for swap. However - if you want to blow away XP entirely, you can just boot right off of the linux installation media of your choice, and you will be given the choice to remove all the existing partitions on the disk. In this case, you won't need any commercial Partitioning software. I not that this is going to help you a whole lot, but I own a Dell Inspiron 8500, which I'm dual-booting between XPPro and Gentoo linux. I have been able to get everything working in linux. I'd suggest that you download and burn a copy of Knoppix. It's a linux livecd that you can boot from and run a full-fledged linux system. This is an easy way to evaluate how linux-friendly the hardware is on your laptop. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 12 10:30:19 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> Message-ID: <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:11:05 -0500 Tom Marble wrote: > Josh Trutwin wrote: > >>RedirectMatch permanent ^/\x90 http://www.microsoft.com/ > > Does this one actually work? I just got another one of these > > buggers in my logs. > It seemed to work for me... (did not confirm with an actual probe, > however). Perhaps it's actually an apache problem. Read the bottom of this post http://www.webservertalk.com/message304809.html the author says that really long query strings get redirected to the bit bucket but always logged. I was playing around with iptables -m string to just drop this $hit at my network's entry point instead of even wasting Apache's time, but I'd need to rebuild my kernel, so that's tabled: http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1531 > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/access_log combined env=!exploit > > CustomLog /var/log/apache/ms_attack_log combined env=exploit > I like this trick... I'm now doing this to declutter my logs (and I > only log the ip address and result code, not the whole URI in the > exploit log). Yeah, it's kinda cool, I was thinking of other nifty things I could do, like create seperate internal logs for 192.168 traffic, etc. > I'm sure we are all frustrated with these various attacks, but > Chewie is right. This is some sort of virus probe and certainly is > not going to "honor" redirect requests. Even though it's fun to > make mod_rewrite do it's thing it really only contributes to the > background noise on the net. > > I've taken out the redirects, but kept the URI exploit > filter/logging. I think you can redirect to /dev/null or a non-existant .com too. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Thu Aug 12 10:36:08 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> References: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040812103607.A5899@baker.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:44:56AM -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on > a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk > rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get started. I have installed Debian on Thinkpad R40 with XP, I was able to do it with minimal problems. The trick in my case was to not even let XP boot the first time, because on that first boot it converts the fat filesystem to the NT filesystem. The free partitioning tools deal nicely with fat, but were still unstable with ntfs at that point. It looks like they have advanced since then and ntfsresize should work for you http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html . I don't know if Fedora includes it in their installation, but it might be easier to repartioning with a live cd before installing anyway. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Thu Aug 12 10:48:29 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> References: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <411B914D.8080905@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Olwe Melwasul wrote: > So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on > a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk > rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get > started. > > Olwers I have Slackware 10.0 installed installed on a setup similar to your. My harddisk partition was originally 100% partitioned for XP Pro. I used a program called "Partition Magic" (it's a commercial program, perhaps the one you were reffering too). With Partition Magic I was able to resize the original existing NTFS - XP partition form 100% down to 20Gig's. I also used Partition magic to setup my /swap & /root file system partitions for slackware. Once the partitions were setup, I installed Slack normally, with the exception of I put the LILO boot loader on the /linux partition instead of the hard disks MBR. Once Slack was installed I fired up XP & installed a program called "Boot Magic" (comes with partition magic), and enabled it to be the new MBR loader. I then configged boot magic for loading the original XP, and added Slack to the setup. Rebooted & was presented with Boot Magics boot loader, with XP & Slack options available. XP will load the original XP boot loader, and the Slack option will fire up the LILO I installed in the Linux partition. All Good. I am sure there are several ways to do this using open source tools, but when a machine is 100% M$ to begin with, I find the partition magic / boot magic combo to be the way to go. Well, that's what I did. If you choose to go this route, make sure to read all the docs that come with Partition Magic. They have some good instructions for helping you setup a dual (or more) boot system. As with many system tools like this one wrong move couple destroy your system, so read & be careful. Hope that helps. Kind Regards, Robert De Mars -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 10:49:04 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <914f813c04081208492aa4901c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:08:28 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:22:47 -0500 > Tom Marble wrote: > SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)\.dll(.*)" exploit=1 > SetEnvIf Request_URI "/cmd\.exe" exploit=1 > SetEnvIf Request_URI "/root\.exe" exploit=1 > SetEnvIf Request_URI "/shell\.exe" exploit=1 > SetEnvIf Request_URI "/default\.ida" exploit=1 You used \ to excape dots in these above; but the "\x90"s have a backslash in them. Try escaping the backslash (\\) perhaps? A stab in the dark on my part...which I just saw you thought of too. Also, doesn't the carat mean the string must start with \x90? In the case you cited, the "SEARCH..." in the beginning would pass this regex, I think. > SetEnvIf Request_URI "^/\x90" exploit=1 ... > RewriteRule .* http://support.microsoft.com/ [R=permanent] ... > And yeah, I'll probably change that to something other than > support.microsoft.com once I'm done testing. :) A good idea, IMO. Especially since the \x90 stuff could [I think] be bytecode in any exploit, not just MS-centric. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Thu Aug 12 11:07:20 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <411B914D.8080905@b-o-b.homelinux.com>; from tclug@b-o-b.homelinux.com on Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 10:48:29AM -0500 References: <411B8268.3020907@cpinternet.com> <411B914D.8080905@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <20040812110720.A9922@thinkunix.net> Robert D. De Mars wrote: > Once the partitions were setup, I installed Slack > normally, with the exception of I put the LILO > boot loader on the /linux partition instead of the > hard disks MBR. > > Once Slack was installed I fired up XP & installed > a program called "Boot Magic" (comes with > partition magic), and enabled it to be the new MBR > loader. I then configged boot magic for loading > the original XP, and added Slack to the setup. GAG is a free boot loader that also works well in situations like this. Gives you the option of installing the boot loader to the hard drive or just run it from a floppy. Supports running many operation systems on the same or multiple disks. It's just a boot loader, so it won't help you partition your disk. http://gag.sourceforge.net/ -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mjbird at clavdivs.org Thu Aug 12 11:10:03 2004 From: mjbird at clavdivs.org (Michael J. Bird) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <411B965B.5070907@clavdivs.org> I'm writing this on my Sony VAIO laptop that is running both XP Home and the MEPIS distro of Debian/GNU testing version. The MEPIS software found everything and installed it. VERY clean. It installed the GRUB installer, and I can now boot XP Home, Linux 2.6 or Linux 2.4. The whole point of the MEPIS distro is to make a distro that is as easy for a novice user to install as XP is. Mike Bird Olwe Melwasul wrote: >> So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on >> a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk >> rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get >> started. >> >> Olwers > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From DaveSh at porous.com Thu Aug 12 10:11:18 2004 From: DaveSh at porous.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <4C1BA8610A772F4DA163589F92E6643C01C03A2E@mail.porous.com> My laptop is about 18 months old, fairly modern. Fedora Core 2 installed just fine, but I used the Mandrake 9 installer to resize my NTFS partition first. Dave Sherman - Information Systems MCSE, MCSA, CCNA davesh@porous.com POROUS MEDIA 1350 Hammond Road St. Paul, MN 55110 Phone - 651-653-2000 FAX - 651-653-2230 The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended exclusively for the use of the addressee listed above. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible to deliver this transmission to the intended recipient, please do not use this transmission, and contact the sender by telephone or e-mail. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop So, does anyone have experience with trying to install, say, Fedora 2 on a modern XP laptop? Someone said my Presario 2100 hogs the whole disk rather badly and I'd need a commercial disk partitioner to even get started. Olwers Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: >How can they tell if you had Linux installed on the computer and then wiped >it out and put XP on it? In fact, as long as the hard drive isn't bad you >could keep switching parts with the manufacturer without them knowing that >you installed Linux. > >You might need to keep Windows around for running the stupid tests that they >will ask you to run. > >Jeff Rasmussen > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lansing, Dan [mailto:Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:18 AM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq >laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found >out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he >removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it >would void his warrenty with compaq. >Just an FYI >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of >issue? > >Olwe > > >_______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Thu Aug 12 11:56:21 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (Robert P. Goldman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:34 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptops Message-ID: <411BA135.6000507@real-time.com> I didn't use it when I did mine (I blew away the XP install, then put a new one back from the OEM media on my dual boot), but I believe Mandrake is supposed to have a partition resizer that can handle NTFS.... R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.com Thu Aug 12 15:17:34 2004 From: cdf123 at cdf123.com (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssh PubkeyAuthentication + Password Message-ID: <411BD05E.8060204@cdf123.com> Hey gang, I have a question about the PubkeyAuthentication methods of ssh. I know you can use PubkeyAuthentication to log into a server without a password. And you can also restrict it to require PubkeyAuthentication. But what concerns me is if I use putty to log into a server from windows using my private key, and my windows machine gets compromised, then whoever has my putty private key file can get access to my server. I could use a usb-key for storing the private key as well, but there's still the issue of someone stealing it or it simply getting lost. Is there any way to require the PubkeyAuthentication method, and after you pass that level, it still asks for a password? That way if I ever find that the Windows box has been broken into, I still have some level of assurance that the server is still safe (at least long enough for me to regenerate and set up new keys). Thanks all, Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Thu Aug 12 15:33:08 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssh PubkeyAuthentication + Password In-Reply-To: <411BD05E.8060204@cdf123.com> References: <411BD05E.8060204@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <20040812203308.GD3950@therub.org> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 03:17:34PM -0500, Chris Frederick wrote: > Hey gang, > > I have a question about the PubkeyAuthentication methods of ssh. I know > you can use PubkeyAuthentication to log into a server without a > password. And you can also restrict it to require > PubkeyAuthentication. But what concerns me is if I use putty to log > into a server from windows using my private key, and my windows machine > gets compromised, then whoever has my putty private key file can get > access to my server. I could use a usb-key for storing the private key > as well, but there's still the issue of someone stealing it or it simply > getting lost. Is there any way to require the PubkeyAuthentication > method, and after you pass that level, it still asks for a password? > That way if I ever find that the Windows box has been broken into, I > still have some level of assurance that the server is still safe (at > least long enough for me to regenerate and set up new keys). Well.. Sort of.. You just encrypt your private key, which you should do anyway. Then, in order to ssh out of your windows box, you'll ahve to enter your pass phrase to decrypt your key. Check out gentoo's keychain (ported everywhere now) for keeping your decrypted private key in memory so that you can store your key encrypted, yet enjoy passwordless access. I'm sure there's a similar application for windows. hth, dan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Thu Aug 12 15:32:32 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssh PubkeyAuthentication + Password Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E292@owa.compellent.com> When you generate the key, you can have a passphrase associated with it. It requires the key and the passphrase. Note, this passphrase is not the password for remote machine. Benjamin E. Neigebauer Software Engineer Compellent Technologies Eden Prairie, MN 55344 -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Chris Frederick Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:18 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] ssh PubkeyAuthentication + Password Hey gang, I have a question about the PubkeyAuthentication methods of ssh. I know you can use PubkeyAuthentication to log into a server without a password. And you can also restrict it to require PubkeyAuthentication. But what concerns me is if I use putty to log into a server from windows using my private key, and my windows machine gets compromised, then whoever has my putty private key file can get access to my server. I could use a usb-key for storing the private key as well, but there's still the issue of someone stealing it or it simply getting lost. Is there any way to require the PubkeyAuthentication method, and after you pass that level, it still asks for a password? That way if I ever find that the Windows box has been broken into, I still have some level of assurance that the server is still safe (at least long enough for me to regenerate and set up new keys). Thanks all, Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Aug 12 15:35:16 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssh PubkeyAuthentication + Password In-Reply-To: <411BD05E.8060204@cdf123.com> References: <411BD05E.8060204@cdf123.com> Message-ID: <20040812203516.GL11613@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Thu Aug 12 15:48:12 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] ssh PubkeyAuthentication + Password Message-ID: Chris, Like other have said, encrypt the key. Then use Pageant, part of Putty. Help file, chapter 9. Good luck, Troy >>> Chris Frederick 08/12/04 03:17PM >>> Hey gang, I have a question about the PubkeyAuthentication methods of ssh. I know you can use PubkeyAuthentication to log into a server without a password. And you can also restrict it to require PubkeyAuthentication. But what concerns me is if I use putty to log into a server from windows using my private key, and my windows machine gets compromised, then whoever has my putty private key file can get access to my server. I could use a usb-key for storing the private key as well, but there's still the issue of someone stealing it or it simply getting lost. Is there any way to require the PubkeyAuthentication method, and after you pass that level, it still asks for a password? That way if I ever find that the Windows box has been broken into, I still have some level of assurance that the server is still safe (at least long enough for me to regenerate and set up new keys). Thanks all, Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Thu Aug 12 16:22:48 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] USB hosed after upgrade Message-ID: <20040812212248.GA8739@steve.worldcycling.com> Hi. I know this is kinda lame, I should know this. upgraded my RH8.0 workstation to fedora core 2 today. upon reboot, my M$ USB mouse is not even lit up. what do I run to get USB running again? kudzu is not doing anything for me. thanks steve -- Steve Linabery, sysadmin/developer World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 17:44:53 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Recording of 5:00pm news tonight Message-ID: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, a little of topic request. By chance did anyone happen to record the 5:00pm Kare11 news tonight to Tivo or the like? If so, there's a segment on there that I'm looking for. If not, I did manage to get it to my ancient VCR and record it. But would like it converted to a Quicktime movie or .mpg. If anyone is able to help out on this, I'd be grateful and will buy some beer (if of legal age of course) in return. Email off list please if you can help. Thanks! -- -Shawn "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kfuchs at winternet.com Thu Aug 12 21:01:14 2004 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36C@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> (Dan.Lansing@AndersenCorp.com) References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36C@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <200408130201.i7D21EU11827@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Dan Lansing wrote: >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq >laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for support, they found >out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him that if he >removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in anyway it >would void his warrenty with compaq. >Just an FYI No company could possibly make money with such a flimsy warranty, since by that logic your warranty can be voided by allowing a virus to format the hard drive. Surely no company will admit that their machine can be permanently damaged by a virus. Regardless of the true nature of their warranty, I'd suggest avoiding the Compaq brand due to their tendency to make hardware slightly different than others such that they have/had a special version of MS Windows for their computers. Stay away from Compaq in the future. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > >it, maybe blow HomeXP totally off it. I got it at Best Buy and tried to >ask them about putting Linux on it. They punted, but mentioned how there > >might be a problem since maybe the BIOS was actually mixed in somehow >with the XP installation--but they weren't sure. In other words, put it >on at your own risk. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of >issue? > >Olwe > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got >pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tsinks at isd.net Thu Aug 12 21:50:33 2004 From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E36C@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> <200408130201.i7D21EU11827@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <00a201c480e0$50ca95a0$0300000a@net.tsinks> I have had RH9 on my Compaq 1700T for almost 4 years. I first used Ranish's partition manager and then the Partition Magic. The only problems I had was with the backup section that Compaq has - I left it alone, except for shrinking it and pushing to to the very end of the drive, and I had to build a little breakout area for the boot to keep the boot within the 1024 cyl area. I had a 3 year warrenty and had problems with the display board and because of all the shipping around or something they crashed the drive and I got a new one. (20gb) I have been living with W98SE and the RH6x and then RH9. The newer Partition Magic handles all the newer types of drive areas - ext3 and all. I do have to keep the vfat and no server or NTFS set up for when I change to XP. The newer systems I believe can handle more of these combos. If you have a big enough drive or can add external ones, you can do most anything and the warrenty is not going to be messed up. I have listened to IBM, HP, Compaq (when still on their own) talk about Linux on their systems and at the same time another group within the company will say nooo you can't do that. It depends on who you talk to at the company. The right hand frequently doesn't know what the left hand is doing. You have to search for the right groups and people. Also, there are the Linux groups on the net which have instructions for these type things. I have seen some info on the XP problems and ways to fix those or work arounds. Leep looking up, Tim Sinks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Fuchs" To: Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > Dan Lansing wrote: > > >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a compaq > >-----Original Message----- > >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Melwasul > >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:56 PM > >To: TCLUG Mailing List > >Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > > > > >I have a new Compaq Presario 2100 laptop and I'd like to put Fedora 2 on > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at rosengren.org Thu Aug 12 23:09:16 2004 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy A. Rosengren) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Recording of 5:00pm news tonight In-Reply-To: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <411C3EEC.5060403@rosengren.org> Shawn Fertch wrote: > Sorry, a little of topic request. By chance did anyone happen to > record the 5:00pm Kare11 news tonight to Tivo or the like? If so, > there's a segment on there that I'm looking for. > > If not, I did manage to get it to my ancient VCR and record it. But > would like it converted to a Quicktime movie or .mpg. > > If anyone is able to help out on this, I'd be grateful and will buy > some beer (if of legal age of course) in return. Email off list > please if you can help. If all else fails, I found this on the Kare11 FAQ. They *might* make better copies (maybe even DVDs?) that can be converted to Quicktime. But that's all just wild speculation :) -- jeremy Can I get a copy of a story I saw on KARE 11? Yes, you can purchase a video clip starting at about $30/story. Sound Clips is a local video duplication company which handles viewer requests for video copies of our news segments. They also record the other local television stations and save their tapes for approximately one year. Sound Clips can be reached at 763-529-9048 or by e-mail at soundclips@aol.com. Costs start around $30. When you contact them, please have as much information about the story as possible, i.e. what day it aired and which show you saw it on. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 00:34:08 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Recording of 5:00pm news tonight In-Reply-To: <411C3EEC.5060403@rosengren.org> References: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> <411C3EEC.5060403@rosengren.org> Message-ID: <67f3084a04081222346527d1c4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, I was aware of the purchasing a copy of the segment. I was hoping to avoid it if possible, but will use it if all else fails. On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:09:16 -0500, Jeremy A. Rosengren wrote: > If all else fails, I found this on the Kare11 FAQ. They *might* make > better copies (maybe even DVDs?) that can be converted to Quicktime. > But that's all just wild speculation :) > > -- jeremy > > Can I get a copy of a story I saw on KARE 11? > Yes, you can purchase a video clip starting at about $30/story. > > Sound Clips is a local video duplication company which handles viewer > requests for video copies of our news segments. They also record the > other local television stations and save their tapes for approximately > one year. > > Sound Clips can be reached at 763-529-9048 or by e-mail at > soundclips@aol.com. Costs start around $30. > > When you contact them, please have as much information about the story > as possible, i.e. what day it aired and which show you saw it on. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Fri Aug 13 04:05:04 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Recording of 5:00pm news tonight In-Reply-To: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <411C8440.9070308@comcast.net> Shawn Fertch wrote: >Sorry, a little of topic request. By chance did anyone happen to >record the 5:00pm Kare11 news tonight to Tivo or the like? If so, >there's a segment on there that I'm looking for. > >If not, I did manage to get it to my ancient VCR and record it. But >would like it converted to a Quicktime movie or .mpg. > >If anyone is able to help out on this, I'd be grateful and will buy >some beer (if of legal age of course) in return. Email off list >please if you can help. > > >Thanks! > > Hey Shawn, I don't have a Tivo, but you should be able to grab a TV card ($40-100) and input your VCR to the card and record from there. Check for compatibility of course, I think mine is a Hauppauge, http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_401.html. You'll also be interested in the bttv driver then, http://linux.bytesex.org/v4l2/bttv.html. You need xawtv or nvrec as your software. Keep in mind that uncompressed avi at 320x200 @ 30 fps with 16k sound will run you about a gig per 4 minutes so you'll want that compressed, say ... mpeg4? divx? - as - _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 08:31:05 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:35 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> The answer! Visit http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:rwdycvp0zwoJ:www.geocities.com/tomhudson411/log_breakin_attempts/+&hl=en (the site was second-hand slashdotted today) This is his mod_rewrite.conf: # author: tom hudson # email: tomhudson411@yahoo.com # my rewrite rules to kill off probes # original idea from tenor at macosxhints forum # replace "REPLACE_YOUR_SERVERS_IP" with either your server's # ip, or if you don't have a (semi)static ip, # a dns alias from one of the free dns services # (no-ip.com, afraid,org, dyndns.org) RewriteEngine on RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.com(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)COMMAND.COM(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.exe(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=command.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)COMMAND.EXE(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=command.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=cmd.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)CMD.EXE(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=cmd.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=root.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)ROOT.EXE(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=root.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_vti_bin[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=vtibin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_VTI_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=vtibin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]winnt[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=winnt" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]WINNT[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=winnt" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]scripts[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=scripts" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]SCRIPTS[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=scripts" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_mem_bin[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=membin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_MEM_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=membin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]msadc[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=msadc" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]MSADC[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=msadc" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]x90[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=webdav+attack" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]X90[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=webdav+attack" Hope that helps. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Fri Aug 13 09:00:10 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D64368@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Fuchs [mailto:kfuchs@winternet.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:01 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > Dan Lansing wrote: > > >One thing to keep in mind on this, I had a friend who purchased a > >compaq laptop from compusa and when he called compaq for > support, they > >found out he wanted to repartition and install linux, they told him > >that if he removed the preinstalled OS or modified the partitions in > >anyway it would void his warrenty with compaq. > >Just an FYI > > No company could possibly make money with such a flimsy > warranty, since by that logic your warranty can be voided by > allowing a virus to format the hard drive. Surely no company > will admit that their machine can be permanently damaged by a virus. I'm sure they draw a distinction with a user willfully making large scale changes that drive there support cost up versus a virus. > > Regardless of the true nature of their warranty, I'd suggest > avoiding the Compaq brand due to their tendency to make > hardware slightly different than others such that they > have/had a special version of MS Windows for their computers. > Stay away from Compaq in the future. It all depends HP/Compaq/Hewlett Compaqard business level computers/servers are fine. If you get a Presorry-o, well you get a cheap computer with a lot of funky hardware that will only work with Windows. That works well for the majority of their customers. Linux users are not hin that group. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Aug 13 09:16:02 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040813141602.GB21337@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 13 09:15:38 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040813091538.0000175a@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:31:05 -0500 "John T. Hoffoss" wrote: > The answer! > > Visit > http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:rwdycvp0zwoJ:www.geocities.com/tomhudson411/log_breakin_attempts/+&hl=en Thanks! > RewriteEngine on > RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.com(.*)$ > "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" Odd that he didn't throw in default.ida too. I still get lots of those. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kremer at ringworld.org Fri Aug 13 09:50:25 2004 From: kremer at ringworld.org (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop In-Reply-To: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D64368@ipserver2.interplastic.com> Message-ID: Sheesh, enough of this mindless Compaq bashing. I just so happen to have a "Presorry-o" laptop that works wonderfully under linux. No funky hardware to deal with. I booted off a CD and installed Debian over pcmcia network, and everything works that I've ever tried to use on it. *shrugs* Maybe I just got lucky, or maybe people are just generalizing based on one bad experience. Either way, Compaq isn't all bad. On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 rware@interplastic.com wrote: > If you get a Presorry-o, well you get a cheap computer with a lot of funky hardware that will only work with Windows. > -- Justin Kremer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 09:57:10 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Recording of 5:00pm news tonight In-Reply-To: <411C8440.9070308@comcast.net> References: <67f3084a04081215444ca1e0d0@mail.gmail.com> <411C8440.9070308@comcast.net> Message-ID: <67f3084a04081307577de7b9e3@mail.gmail.com> Cool, thanks for the thought on that Adam. I've got a couple of people offline who are willing to help. I don't have a need to warrant the cost of purchasing a card, yet. I'll definately keep this in mind though in case I decide to do it in the future. I'm in a time crunch right now unfortunately. On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:05:04 -0500, Adam Shrode wrote: > > Hey Shawn, I don't have a Tivo, but you should be able to grab a TV card > ($40-100) and input your VCR to the card and record from there. Check > for compatibility of course, I think mine is a Hauppauge, > http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_401.html. You'll also be > interested in the bttv driver then, > http://linux.bytesex.org/v4l2/bttv.html. > > You need xawtv or nvrec as your software. Keep in mind that > uncompressed avi at 320x200 @ 30 fps with 16k sound will run you about a > gig per 4 minutes so you'll want that compressed, say ... mpeg4? divx? > > - as - > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- -Shawn "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 13 10:07:07 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040813141602.GB21337@wookimus.net> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> <20040813141602.GB21337@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040813100707.000054a3@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:16:02 -0500 Chad Walstrom wrote: > Cute PHP script. You know, this isn't exactly OT. ;-) Anyway, > since putting in log filtering, I've only seen 10 attempts on our > machine. :-/ Not really exciting. ;-) I'm waiting for another x90, seems more common in the evening hours. If that one gets caught too then I'm gonna move this onto a couple other boxes. I'm sure none of these "LUS3R5" will ever see the results of that script, but it's kinda funny anyway. From this exercise I currently am testing the following set of rules (apologies for any line breaks): SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)command.com(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)COMMAND.COM(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)command.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)COMMAND.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)default.ida(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)DEFAULT.IDA(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)cmd.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)CMD.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)root.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)ROOT.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)shell.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)SHELL.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_vti_bin[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_VTI_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]winnt[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]WINNT[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]scripts[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ " exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]SCRIPTS[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_mem_bin[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_MEM_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]msadc[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]MSADC[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]x90[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]X90[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*).dll(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*).DLL(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)system32(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)SYSTEM32(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.com(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)COMMAND.COM(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)COMMAND.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)default.ida(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=default.ida" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)DEFAULT.IDA(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=default.ida" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=cmd.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)CMD.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=cmd.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=root.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)ROOT.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=root.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)shell.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=shell.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)SHELL.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=shell.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_vti_bin[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=vtibin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_VTI_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=vtibin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]winnt[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=winnt" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]WINNT[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=winnt" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]scripts[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=scripts" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]SCRIPTS[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=scripts" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_mem_bin[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=membin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_MEM_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=membin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]msadc[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=msadc" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]MSADC[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=msadc" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]x90[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=webdav+attack" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]X90[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=webdav+attack" RedirectMatch permanent (.*).dll(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+dll" RedirectMatch permanent (.*).DLL(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+dll" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)system32(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+system32" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)SYSTEM32(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+system32" SetEnvIf Remote_Addr ^(127\.0\.0\.1|192\.168\.0\.) localreq nolog CustomLog /var/log/apache/trutwins.homeip.net/access_log combined env=!nolog CustomLog /var/log/apache/trutwins.homeip.net/attack_log combined env=exploit CustomLog /var/log/apache/trutwins.homeip.net/local_access_log combined env=localreq Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Fri Aug 13 10:17:39 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS Message-ID: I ran one of the exploits to see the results. :) Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: Josh Trutwin [mailto:josh@trutwins.homeip.net] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:07 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:16:02 -0500 Chad Walstrom wrote: > Cute PHP script. You know, this isn't exactly OT. ;-) Anyway, > since putting in log filtering, I've only seen 10 attempts on our > machine. :-/ Not really exciting. ;-) I'm waiting for another x90, seems more common in the evening hours. If that one gets caught too then I'm gonna move this onto a couple other boxes. I'm sure none of these "LUS3R5" will ever see the results of that script, but it's kinda funny anyway. From this exercise I currently am testing the following set of rules (apologies for any line breaks): SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)command.com(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)COMMAND.COM(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)command.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)COMMAND.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)default.ida(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)DEFAULT.IDA(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)cmd.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)CMD.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)root.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)ROOT.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)shell.exe(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)SHELL.EXE(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_vti_bin[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_VTI_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]winnt[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]WINNT[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]scripts[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ " exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]SCRIPTS[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_mem_bin[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]_MEM_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]msadc[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]MSADC[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]x90[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)[\\|\/]X90[\\|\/](.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*).dll(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*).DLL(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)system32(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog SetEnvIf Request_URI "(.*)SYSTEM32(.*)$" exploit=1 nolog RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.com(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)COMMAND.COM(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)COMMAND.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=command.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)default.ida(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=default.ida" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)DEFAULT.IDA(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=default.ida" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)cmd.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=cmd.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)CMD.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=cmd.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)root.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=root.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)ROOT.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=root.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)shell.exe(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=shell.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)SHELL.EXE(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=shell.exe" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_vti_bin[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=vtibin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_VTI_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=vtibin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]winnt[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=winnt" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]WINNT[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=winnt" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]scripts[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=scripts" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]SCRIPTS[\\|\/]\.\.(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=scripts" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_mem_bin[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=membin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]_MEM_BIN[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=membin" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]msadc[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=msadc" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]MSADC[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=msadc" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]x90[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=webdav+attack" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)[\\|\/]X90[\\|\/](.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=webdav+attack" RedirectMatch permanent (.*).dll(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+dll" RedirectMatch permanent (.*).DLL(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+dll" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)system32(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+system32" RedirectMatch permanent (.*)SYSTEM32(.*)$ "http://trutwins.homeip.net/goaway.php?cmd=some+system32" SetEnvIf Remote_Addr ^(127\.0\.0\.1|192\.168\.0\.) localreq nolog CustomLog /var/log/apache/trutwins.homeip.net/access_log combined env=!nolog CustomLog /var/log/apache/trutwins.homeip.net/attack_log combined env=exploit CustomLog /var/log/apache/trutwins.homeip.net/local_access_log combined env=localreq Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 13 10:34:05 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040813103405.00005dd1@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:17:39 -0500 Jeffery Rasmussen wrote: > > I ran one of the exploits to see the results. :) Hmmm: Received: from mail.hfa-mn.org ([207.109.25.62] hhelo=ontario.HFA-MN.ORG) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Must've been this one: 207.109.25.62 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; .NET ^^^^^^^^ shame shame shame.... :) Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at nwaalpa.org Fri Aug 13 10:34:32 2004 From: tclug at nwaalpa.org (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <20040813091538.0000175a@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> <20040813091538.0000175a@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <45E31CB0-ED3E-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> On Aug 13, 2004, at 9:15 AM, Josh Trutwin wrote: > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:31:05 -0500 > "John T. Hoffoss" wrote: > >> The answer! >> >> Visit >> http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:rwdycvp0zwoJ:www.geocities.com/ >> tomhudson411/log_breakin_attempts/+&hl=en > > Thanks! > > > >> RewriteEngine on >> RedirectMatch permanent (.*)command.com(.*)$ >> "http://REPLACE_WITH_YOUR_SERVERS_IP/goaway.php?cmd=command.com" > > This guys script shows the attacker a list of other machines that have attacked your box. IIRC (and feel free to correct me), a lot of these attacks (default.ida?) are coming not from script kiddies but automatically from machines that have been compromised. So in effect, you're giving the attacker a ready made list of boxes that may already have backdoors on them that they may be able to exploit. That's like telling a burglar 'I know you're there," and then adding, "but my neighbor's house is unlocked." Steve _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 13 10:57:38 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] Apache rewrite for MS BS In-Reply-To: <45E31CB0-ED3E-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> References: <20040810124332.00007cf5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <20040810181317.GA4724@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040810132333.000060aa@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <41199F17.90903@info9.net> <20040812080828.00002af7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <411B4239.8010504@info9.net> <20040812103019.00004b0e@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <914f813c040813063161a6ee77@mail.gmail.com> <20040813091538.0000175a@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <45E31CB0-ED3E-11D8-BB53-0003930F1F8E@nwaalpa.org> Message-ID: <20040813105738.00003e9b@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:34:32 -0500 Steve Swantz wrote: > This guys script shows the attacker a list of other machines that > have attacked your box. IIRC (and feel free to correct me), a lot > of these attacks (default.ida?) are coming not from script kiddies > but automatically from machines that have been compromised. So in > effect, you're giving the attacker a ready made list of boxes that > may already have backdoors on them that they may be able to > exploit. That's a good point, I'd guess that the majority of these are coming from comprimised hosts. I think I'm going to .htaccess the full log and mod the script to just display the text without the IP's back to the user/script/whatever. josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Fri Aug 13 11:06:30 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:37 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D6436C@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Kremer [mailto:kremer@ringworld.org] > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:50 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Linux on Laptop > > Sheesh, enough of this mindless Compaq bashing. I just so > happen to have a "Presorry-o" laptop that works wonderfully > under linux. No funky hardware to deal with. I booted off a > CD and installed Debian over pcmcia network, and everything > works that I've ever tried to use on it. > *shrugs* > Maybe I just got lucky, or maybe people are just generalizing > based on one bad experience. Either way, Compaq isn't all bad. > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 rware@interplastic.com wrote: > > > If you get a Presorry-o, well you get a cheap computer with > a lot of funky hardware that will only work with Windows. > > I thought I kind of did come to Compaq's defense. We have had good luck over the years at my company with their stuff. I still feel the same way about the Presario line, but I'm glad yours works for you, a lot of laptops, regardless of the manufacturer don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Aug 13 12:12:42 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backspace key and Linux/BSD Message-ID: <20040813121242.A26600@thinkunix.net> Folks, I'm working on some Linux boxes (Redhat, Debian) but to get to them I have to go through and OpenBSD shell server. Typically I login to the OpenBSD box, run screen on it, then ssh to the Linux boxes. The problem I have is the backspace key doesn't work properly in vi on the Linux boxes, but works as expected at the shell prompt. In vi when I type a backspace I get '^?' char displayed on screen. Very annoying. Any idea what "stty erase" should be set to to make this work consistently at the shell prompt _AND_ in vi? Here's what stty shows: OpenBSD(once screen is running)$ stty -a speed 38400 baud; 25 rows; 80 columns; lflags: icanon isig -iexten echo echoe echok echoke -echonl echoctl -echoprt -altwerase -noflsh -tostop -flusho pendin -nokerninfo -extproc -xcase iflags: -istrip icrnl -inlcr -igncr -iuclc ixon ixoff -ixany -imaxbel -ignbrk brkint -inpck -ignpar -parmrk oflags: opost onlcr -ocrnl -onocr -onlret -olcuc oxtabs -onoeot cflags: cread cs8 -parenb -parodd hupcl -clocal -cstopb -crtscts -mdmbuf cchars: discard = ^O; dsusp = ^Y; eof = ^D; eol = ^@; eol2 = ^@; erase = ^?; intr = ^C; kill = ^U; lnext = ^V; min = 1; quit = ^\; reprint = ^R; start = ^Q; status = ; stop = ^S; susp = ^Z; time = 0; werase = ^W; RedHat9$ stty -a speed 38400 baud; rows 25; columns 80; line = 0; intr = ^C; quit = ^\; erase = ^H; kill = ^U; eof = ^D; eol = ; eol2 = ; start = ^Q; stop = ^S; susp = ^Z; rprnt = ^R; werase = ^W; lnext = ^V; flush = ^O; min = 1; time = 0; -parenb -parodd cs8 -hupcl -cstopb cread -clocal -crtscts -ignbrk -brkint -ignpar -parmrk -inpck -istrip -inlcr -igncr icrnl ixon ixoff -iuclc -ixany -imaxbel opost -olcuc -ocrnl onlcr -onocr -onlret -ofill -ofdel nl0 cr0 tab0 bs0 vt0 ff0 isig icanon -iexten echo echoe echok -echonl -noflsh -xcase -tostop -echoprt echoctl echoke -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Fri Aug 13 12:48:11 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backspace key and Linux/BSD In-Reply-To: <20040813121242.A26600@thinkunix.net> References: <20040813121242.A26600@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040813124811.A10643@baker.space.umn.edu> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 12:12:42PM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Folks, > I'm working on some Linux boxes (Redhat, Debian) but to get to them I > have to go through and OpenBSD shell server. Typically I login to the > OpenBSD box, run screen on it, then ssh to the Linux boxes. The problem > I have is the backspace key doesn't work properly in vi on the Linux boxes, > but works as expected at the shell prompt. In vi when I type a backspace > I get '^?' char displayed on screen. Very annoying. Any idea what > "stty erase" should be set to to make this work consistently at the > shell prompt _AND_ in vi? What are you using for vi - vim, nvi, ... ? What does screen set $TERM to when you login? Take a look at http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html for more info then youi probably want on this problem. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From michaelb at real-time.com Fri Aug 13 14:56:59 2004 From: michaelb at real-time.com (michaelb@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Backspace key and Linux/BSD In-Reply-To: <20040813121242.A26600@thinkunix.net> References: <20040813121242.A26600@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <1092427019.411d1d0b68446@webmail.real-time.com> Have you tried setting erase to ^H on both boxes? Currently, you have it set to ^? on the BSD box and ^H on the linux box. Excuse me if I am stating the obvious. What shell are you using? Bash is smart about this stuff and does the right thing no matter your stty settings. Many other apps are not as smart as bash (e.g. that nasty korn shell). Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Fri Aug 13 21:14:55 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs Message-ID: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> I'm trying to set up file sharing between an XP and a Fedora 2 box. On the Linux side, I'm using the KDE admin tool for Samba, and I've "shared" a subdirectory of my user account home directory. On the XP side I run "Add Network Place wizard" and it sees the Linux box--actually twice--as "Localhost" and a second alias I attached to the static IP address on the network card. But it doesn't see the folder I supposedly shared and, therefore, can't make a connection. I try typing it in, and it brings up a dialog box and tries to take a user/password--but nothing works. I'm sure I've done something on the Samba side wrong. Any ideas? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Fri Aug 13 21:32:29 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040814023229.GA27574@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:14:55PM -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > I'm trying to set up file sharing between an XP and a Fedora 2 box. On > the Linux side, I'm using the KDE admin tool for Samba, and I've > "shared" a subdirectory of my user account home directory. On the XP > side I run "Add Network Place wizard" and it sees the Linux > box--actually twice--as "Localhost" and a second alias I attached to the > static IP address on the network card. But it doesn't see the folder I > supposedly shared and, therefore, can't make a connection. I try typing > it in, and it brings up a dialog box and tries to take a > user/password--but nothing works. I'm sure I've done something on the > Samba side wrong. Any ideas? > > Olwe > Could you share your /etc/samba/smb.conf file with us? -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Fri Aug 13 22:14:57 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <20040814023229.GA27574@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> <20040814023229.GA27574@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <411D83B1.1000607@cpinternet.com> James Kaufman wrote: >On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:14:55PM -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > > >>I'm trying to set up file sharing between an XP and a Fedora 2 box. On >>the Linux side, I'm using the KDE admin tool for Samba, and I've >>"shared" a subdirectory of my user account home directory. On the XP >>side I run "Add Network Place wizard" and it sees the Linux >>box--actually twice--as "Localhost" and a second alias I attached to the >>static IP address on the network card. But it doesn't see the folder I >>supposedly shared and, therefore, can't make a connection. I try typing >>it in, and it brings up a dialog box and tries to take a >>user/password--but nothing works. I'm sure I've done something on the >>Samba side wrong. Any ideas? >> >>Olwe >> >> >> > >Could you share your /etc/samba/smb.conf file with us? > > > [global] # workgroup = NT-Domain-Name or Workgroup-Name # server string is the equivalent of the NT Description field server string = Samba Server # This option is important for security. It allows you to restrict # connections to machines which are on your local network. The # following example restricts access to two C class networks and # the "loopback" interface. For more examples of the syntax see # the smb.conf man page ; hosts allow = 192.168.1. 192.168.2. 127. # if you want to automatically load your printer list rather # than setting them up individually then you'll need this printcap name = /etc/printcap load printers = yes # It should not be necessary to spell out the print system type unless # yours is non-standard. Currently supported print systems include: # bsd, sysv, plp, lprng, aix, hpux, qnx ; printing = bsd # Uncomment this if you want a guest account, you must add this to /etc/passwd # otherwise the user "nobody" is used ; guest account = pcguest # this tells Samba to use a separate log file for each machine # that connects log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log # all log information in one file # log file = /var/log/samba/smbd.log # Put a capping on the size of the log files (in Kb). max log size = 50 # Security mode. Most people will want user level security. See # security_level.txt for details. # Use password server option only with security = server ; password server = # Password Level allows matching of _n_ characters of the password for # all combinations of upper and lower case. ; password level = 8 ; username level = 8 # You may wish to use password encryption. Please read # ENCRYPTION.txt, Win95.txt and WinNT.txt in the Samba documentation. # Do not enable this option unless you have read those documents ; encrypt passwords = yes ; smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd # The following are needed to allow password changing from Windows to # update the Linux system password also. # NOTE: Use these with 'encrypt passwords' and 'smb passwd file' above. # NOTE2: You do NOT need these to allow workstations to change only # the encrypted SMB passwords. They allow the Unix password # to be kept in sync with the SMB password. ; unix password sync = Yes ; passwd program = /usr/bin/passwd %u ; passwd chat = *New*UNIX*password* %n\n *ReType*new*UNIX*password* %n\n *passwd:*all*authentication*tokens*updated*successfully* # Unix users can map to different SMB User names ; username map = /etc/samba/smbusers # Using the following line enables you to customise your configuration # on a per machine basis. The %m gets replaced with the netbios name # of the machine that is connecting ; include = /etc/samba/smb.conf.%m # Most people will find that this option gives better performance. # See speed.txt and the manual pages for details socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192 # Configure Samba to use multiple interfaces # If you have multiple network interfaces then you must list them # here. See the man page for details. ; interfaces = 192.168.12.2/24 192.168.13.2/24 # Configure remote browse list synchronisation here # request announcement to, or browse list sync from: # a specific host or from / to a whole subnet (see below) ; remote browse sync = 192.168.3.25 192.168.5.255 # Cause this host to announce itself to local subnets here ; remote announce = 192.168.1.255 192.168.2.44 # Browser Control Options: # set local master to no if you don't want Samba to become a master # browser on your network. Otherwise the normal election rules apply ; local master = no # OS Level determines the precedence of this server in master browser # elections. The default value should be reasonable ; os level = 33 # Domain Master specifies Samba to be the Domain Master Browser. This # allows Samba to collate browse lists between subnets. Don't use this # if you already have a Windows NT domain controller doing this job ; domain master = yes # Preferred Master causes Samba to force a local browser election on startup # and gives it a slightly higher chance of winning the election ; preferred master = yes # Enable this if you want Samba to be a domain logon server for # Windows95 workstations. ; domain logons = yes # if you enable domain logons then you may want a per-machine or # per user logon script # run a specific logon batch file per workstation (machine) ; logon script = %m.bat # run a specific logon batch file per username ; logon script = %U.bat # Where to store roving profiles (only for Win95 and WinNT) # %L substitutes for this servers netbios name, %U is username # You must uncomment the [Profiles] share below ; logon path = \\%L\Profiles\%U # All NetBIOS names must be resolved to IP Addresses # 'Name Resolve Order' allows the named resolution mechanism to be specified # the default order is "host lmhosts wins bcast". "host" means use the unix # system gethostbyname() function call that will use either /etc/hosts OR # DNS or NIS depending on the settings of /etc/host.config, /etc/nsswitch.conf # and the /etc/resolv.conf file. "host" therefore is system configuration # dependant. This parameter is most often of use to prevent DNS lookups # in order to resolve NetBIOS names to IP Addresses. Use with care! # The example below excludes use of name resolution for machines that are NOT # on the local network segment # - OR - are not deliberately to be known via lmhosts or via WINS. ; name resolve order = wins lmhosts bcast # Windows Internet Name Serving Support Section: # WINS Support - Tells the NMBD component of Samba to enable it's WINS Server ; wins support = yes # WINS Server - Tells the NMBD components of Samba to be a WINS Client # Note: Samba can be either a WINS Server, or a WINS Client, but NOT both ; wins server = w.x.y.z # WINS Proxy - Tells Samba to answer name resolution queries on # behalf of a non WINS capable client, for this to work there must be # at least one WINS Server on the network. The default is NO. ; wins proxy = yes # DNS Proxy - tells Samba whether or not to try to resolve NetBIOS names # via DNS nslookups. The built-in default for versions 1.9.17 is yes, # this has been changed in version 1.9.18 to no. dns proxy = no # Case Preservation can be handy - system default is _no_ # NOTE: These can be set on a per share basis ; preserve case = no ; short preserve case = no # Default case is normally upper case for all DOS files ; default case = lower # Be very careful with case sensitivity - it can break things! ; case sensitive = no #============================ Share Definitions ============================== idmap uid = 16777216-33554431 idmap gid = 16777216-33554431 template shell = /bin/false password server = None encrypt passwords = no guest ok = yes guest account = olwe security = SHARE winbind use default domain = no [homes] comment = Home Directories browseable = no writeable = yes # Un-comment the following and create the netlogon directory for Domain Logons ; [netlogon] ; comment = Network Logon Service ; path = /home/netlogon ; guest ok = yes ; writable = no ; share modes = no # Un-comment the following to provide a specific roving profile share # the default is to use the user's home directory ;[Profiles] ; path = /home/profiles ; browseable = no ; guest ok = yes # NOTE: If you have a BSD-style print system there is no need to # specifically define each individual printer [printers] comment = All Printers path = /var/spool/samba browseable = no # Set public = yes to allow user 'guest account' to print printable = yes # This one is useful for people to share files ;[tmp] ; comment = Temporary file space ; path = /tmp ; read only = no ; public = yes # A publicly accessible directory, but read only, except for people in # the "staff" group ;[public] ; comment = Public Stuff ; path = /home/samba ; public = yes ; read only = yes ; write list = @staff # Other examples. # # A private printer, usable only by fred. Spool data will be placed in fred's # home directory. Note that fred must have write access to the spool directory, # wherever it is. ;[fredsprn] ; comment = Fred's Printer ; valid users = fred ; path = /homes/fred ; printer = freds_printer ; public = no ; writable = no ; printable = yes # A private directory, usable only by fred. Note that fred requires write # access to the directory. ;[fredsdir] ; comment = Fred's Service ; path = /usr/somewhere/private ; valid users = fred ; public = no ; writable = yes ; printable = no # a service which has a different directory for each machine that connects # this allows you to tailor configurations to incoming machines. You could # also use the %u option to tailor it by user name. # The %m gets replaced with the machine name that is connecting. ;[pchome] ; comment = PC Directories ; path = /usr/pc/%m ; public = no ; writable = yes # A publicly accessible directory, read/write to all users. Note that all files # created in the directory by users will be owned by the default user, so # any user with access can delete any other user's files. Obviously this # directory must be writable by the default user. Another user could of course # be specified, in which case all files would be owned by that user instead. ;[public] ; path = /usr/somewhere/else/public ; public = yes ; only guest = yes ; writable = yes ; printable = no # The following two entries demonstrate how to share a directory so that two # users can place files there that will be owned by the specific users. In this # setup, the directory should be writable by both users and should have the # sticky bit set on it to prevent abuse. Obviously this could be extended to # as many users as required. ;[myshare] ; comment = Mary's and Fred's stuff ; path = /usr/somewhere/shared ; valid users = mary fred ; public = no ; writable = yes ; printable = no ; create mask = 0765 [olwe] path = /home/olwe writeable = yes guest ok = yes _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Sat Aug 14 04:49:32 2004 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <411D83B1.1000607@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <001801c481e4$001131f0$0200000a@theixian.lan> > -----Original Message----- > From: Olwe Melwasul [mailto:olwe@cpinternet.com] > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:15 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs > > > [global] > *snip* > # You may wish to use password encryption. Please read > # ENCRYPTION.txt, Win95.txt and WinNT.txt in the Samba documentation. > # Do not enable this option unless you have read those documents > ; encrypt passwords = yes > ; smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd uncomment "encrypt passwords" and "smb passwd file". This is almost certainly the root of your problem. I also suspect that you have not yet created samba users by running smbpasswd. > > # The following are needed to allow password changing from Windows to > # update the Linux system password also. > # NOTE: Use these with 'encrypt passwords' and 'smb passwd > file' above. > # NOTE2: You do NOT need these to allow workstations to change only > # the encrypted SMB passwords. They allow the Unix password > # to be kept in sync with the SMB password. > ; unix password sync = Yes > ; passwd program = /usr/bin/passwd %u > ; passwd chat = *New*UNIX*password* %n\n *ReType*new*UNIX*password* > %n\n *passwd:*all*authentication*tokens*updated*successfully* might want to uncomment the above as well. Though it is not necessary to get things working. > > # Unix users can map to different SMB User names > ; username map = /etc/samba/smbusers > This is a handy option for mapping windows usernames to unix accounts. *snip* > > # Browser Control Options: > # set local master to no if you don't want Samba to become a master > # browser on your network. Otherwise the normal election rules apply > ; local master = no uncomment and set to yes to let Samba become the master browser (this means that it will be hold the list of windows boxen connected to your network) *snip* > #============================ Share Definitions > ============================== > idmap uid = 16777216-33554431 > idmap gid = 16777216-33554431 > template shell = /bin/false > password server = None > encrypt passwords = no > guest ok = yes > guest account = olwe > security = SHARE > winbind use default domain = no I am not sure what this ^^^ stuff is, but I would comment it out. *snip* > > > [olwe] > path = /home/olwe > writeable = yes > guest ok = yes > make those changes and restart samba. --- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mike at fruitioninc.com Sat Aug 14 11:58:42 2004 From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <001801c481e4$001131f0$0200000a@theixian.lan> Message-ID: I've gone through samba configuration a couple times. Is there another use for samba other than serving up files and printers to Windows boxes? If not, then why does the default configuration not work with Windows? What is the default configuration intended for? Anyone know? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Sat Aug 14 12:27:41 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411E4B8D.20907@cleosci.com> The default configuration is not so much intended to work with windows as it is to provide a very broad example of the many things you can do with Samba. Most of these things you will not need in a basic configuration. Samba has the capability of acting as a PDC, a WINS server, a print host, and so on. Not everyone uses these portions. In addition, not everyone calls their windows share group, "WORKGROUP." Modifications will have to be made for such changes / adaptations. Mike Bresnahan wrote: >I've gone through samba configuration a couple times. Is there another use >for samba other than serving up files and printers to Windows boxes? If >not, then why does the default configuration not work with Windows? What is >the default configuration intended for? Anyone know? > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Aug 14 12:47:20 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:38 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <1092505640.9564.155.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sat Aug 14 15:18:27 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <1092505640.9564.155.camel@3po> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> <1092505640.9564.155.camel@3po> Message-ID: <411E7393.5060402@cpinternet.com> Actually, Windows sees the "Samba Server (Lothlorien)" when I click around on the Network places. Then when I click on the Samba-Linux box I get: "Lothlorien is not accessible. You might not have permission to use this network resource. Contact the admin.....The network path was not found." Odd that it sees the Samba-Linux box but can't get in or even act like it's trying. Anyway here's my smb.conf again: ---- # This is the main Samba configuration file. You should read the # smb.conf(5) manual page in order to understand the options listed # here. Samba has a huge number of configurable options (perhaps too # many!) most of which are not shown in this example # # Any line which starts with a ; (semi-colon) or a # (hash) # is a comment and is ignored. In this example we will use a # # for commentry and a ; for parts of the config file that you # may wish to enable # # NOTE: Whenever you modify this file you should run the command "testparm" # to check that you have not made any basic syntactic errors. # #======================= Global Settings ===================================== [global] # workgroup = NT-Domain-Name or Workgroup-Name workgroup = workgroup # server string is the equivalent of the NT Description field server string = Samba Server # This option is important for security. It allows you to restrict # connections to machines which are on your local network. The # following example restricts access to two C class networks and # the "loopback" interface. For more examples of the syntax see # the smb.conf man page ; hosts allow = 192.168.1. 192.168.2. 127. hosts allow = 192.168.0. 127. # if you want to automatically load your printer list rather # than setting them up individually then you'll need this printcap name = /etc/printcap load printers = yes # It should not be necessary to spell out the print system type unless # yours is non-standard. Currently supported print systems include: # bsd, sysv, plp, lprng, aix, hpux, qnx ; printing = bsd # Uncomment this if you want a guest account, you must add this to /etc/passwd # otherwise the user "nobody" is used ; guest account = pcguest # this tells Samba to use a separate log file for each machine # that connects log file = /var/log/samba/%m.log # all log information in one file # log file = /var/log/samba/smbd.log # Put a capping on the size of the log files (in Kb). max log size = 50 # Security mode. Most people will want user level security. See # security_level.txt for details. # Use password server option only with security = server ; password server = # Password Level allows matching of _n_ characters of the password for # all combinations of upper and lower case. ; password level = 8 ; username level = 8 # You may wish to use password encryption. Please read # ENCRYPTION.txt, Win95.txt and WinNT.txt in the Samba documentation. # Do not enable this option unless you have read those documents encrypt passwords = yes smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd # The following are needed to allow password changing from Windows to # update the Linux system password also. # NOTE: Use these with 'encrypt passwords' and 'smb passwd file' above. # NOTE2: You do NOT need these to allow workstations to change only # the encrypted SMB passwords. They allow the Unix password # to be kept in sync with the SMB password. unix password sync = Yes passwd program = /usr/bin/passwd %u passwd chat = *New*UNIX*password* %n\n *ReType*new*UNIX*password* %n\n *passwd:*all*authentication*tokens*updated*successfully* # Unix users can map to different SMB User names username map = /etc/samba/smbusers # Using the following line enables you to customise your configuration # on a per machine basis. The %m gets replaced with the netbios name # of the machine that is connecting ; include = /etc/samba/smb.conf.%m # Most people will find that this option gives better performance. # See speed.txt and the manual pages for details socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192 # Configure Samba to use multiple interfaces # If you have multiple network interfaces then you must list them # here. See the man page for details. ; interfaces = 192.168.12.2/24 192.168.13.2/24 # Configure remote browse list synchronisation here # request announcement to, or browse list sync from: # a specific host or from / to a whole subnet (see below) ; remote browse sync = 192.168.3.25 192.168.5.255 # Cause this host to announce itself to local subnets here ; remote announce = 192.168.1.255 192.168.2.44 # Browser Control Options: # set local master to no if you don't want Samba to become a master # browser on your network. Otherwise the normal election rules apply local master = yes # OS Level determines the precedence of this server in master browser # elections. The default value should be reasonable ; os level = 33 # Domain Master specifies Samba to be the Domain Master Browser. This # allows Samba to collate browse lists between subnets. Don't use this # if you already have a Windows NT domain controller doing this job ; domain master = yes # Preferred Master causes Samba to force a local browser election on startup # and gives it a slightly higher chance of winning the election preferred master = yes # Enable this if you want Samba to be a domain logon server for # Windows95 workstations. ; domain logons = yes # if you enable domain logons then you may want a per-machine or # per user logon script # run a specific logon batch file per workstation (machine) ; logon script = %m.bat # run a specific logon batch file per username ; logon script = %U.bat # Where to store roving profiles (only for Win95 and WinNT) # %L substitutes for this servers netbios name, %U is username # You must uncomment the [Profiles] share below ; logon path = \\%L\Profiles\%U # All NetBIOS names must be resolved to IP Addresses # 'Name Resolve Order' allows the named resolution mechanism to be specified # the default order is "host lmhosts wins bcast". "host" means use the unix # system gethostbyname() function call that will use either /etc/hosts OR # DNS or NIS depending on the settings of /etc/host.config, /etc/nsswitch.conf # and the /etc/resolv.conf file. "host" therefore is system configuration # dependant. This parameter is most often of use to prevent DNS lookups # in order to resolve NetBIOS names to IP Addresses. Use with care! # The example below excludes use of name resolution for machines that are NOT # on the local network segment # - OR - are not deliberately to be known via lmhosts or via WINS. ; name resolve order = wins lmhosts bcast # Windows Internet Name Serving Support Section: # WINS Support - Tells the NMBD component of Samba to enable it's WINS Server ; wins support = yes # WINS Server - Tells the NMBD components of Samba to be a WINS Client # Note: Samba can be either a WINS Server, or a WINS Client, but NOT both ; wins server = w.x.y.z # WINS Proxy - Tells Samba to answer name resolution queries on # behalf of a non WINS capable client, for this to work there must be # at least one WINS Server on the network. The default is NO. ; wins proxy = yes # DNS Proxy - tells Samba whether or not to try to resolve NetBIOS names # via DNS nslookups. The built-in default for versions 1.9.17 is yes, # this has been changed in version 1.9.18 to no. dns proxy = no # Case Preservation can be handy - system default is _no_ # NOTE: These can be set on a per share basis ; preserve case = no ; short preserve case = no # Default case is normally upper case for all DOS files ; default case = lower # Be very careful with case sensitivity - it can break things! ; case sensitive = no #============================ Share Definitions ============================== ; idmap uid = 16777216-33554431 ; idmap gid = 16777216-33554431 ; template shell = /bin/false ; password server = None ; encrypt passwords = no ; guest ok = yes ; guest account = olwe ; security = SHARE ; winbind use default domain = no [homes] comment = Home Directories browseable = yes writeable = yes # Un-comment the following and create the netlogon directory for Domain Logons ; [netlogon] ; comment = Network Logon Service ; path = /home/netlogon ; guest ok = yes ; writable = no ; share modes = no # Un-comment the following to provide a specific roving profile share # the default is to use the user's home directory ;[Profiles] ; path = /home/profiles ; browseable = no ; guest ok = yes # NOTE: If you have a BSD-style print system there is no need to # specifically define each individual printer [printers] comment = All Printers path = /var/spool/samba browseable = no # Set public = yes to allow user 'guest account' to print printable = yes # This one is useful for people to share files ;[tmp] ; comment = Temporary file space ; path = /tmp ; read only = no ; public = yes # A publicly accessible directory, but read only, except for people in # the "staff" group ;[public] ; comment = Public Stuff ; path = /home/samba ; public = yes ; read only = yes ; write list = @staff # Other examples. # # A private printer, usable only by fred. Spool data will be placed in fred's # home directory. Note that fred must have write access to the spool directory, # wherever it is. ;[fredsprn] ; comment = Fred's Printer ; valid users = fred ; path = /homes/fred ; printer = freds_printer ; public = no ; writable = no ; printable = yes # A private directory, usable only by fred. Note that fred requires write # access to the directory. ;[fredsdir] ; comment = Fred's Service ; path = /usr/somewhere/private ; valid users = fred ; public = no ; writable = yes ; printable = no # a service which has a different directory for each machine that connects # this allows you to tailor configurations to incoming machines. You could # also use the %u option to tailor it by user name. # The %m gets replaced with the machine name that is connecting. ;[pchome] ; comment = PC Directories ; path = /usr/pc/%m ; public = no ; writable = yes # A publicly accessible directory, read/write to all users. Note that all files # created in the directory by users will be owned by the default user, so # any user with access can delete any other user's files. Obviously this # directory must be writable by the default user. Another user could of course # be specified, in which case all files would be owned by that user instead. ;[public] ; path = /usr/somewhere/else/public ; public = yes ; only guest = yes ; writable = yes ; printable = no # The following two entries demonstrate how to share a directory so that two # users can place files there that will be owned by the specific users. In this # setup, the directory should be writable by both users and should have the # sticky bit set on it to prevent abuse. Obviously this could be extended to # as many users as required. ;[myshare] ; comment = Mary's and Fred's stuff ; path = /usr/somewhere/shared ; valid users = mary fred ; public = no ; writable = yes ; printable = no ; create mask = 0765 [olwe] path = /home/olwe writeable = yes guest ok = yes Mike Hicks wrote: >On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 21:14, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > > >>I'm trying to set up file sharing between an XP and a Fedora 2 box. On >>the Linux side, I'm using the KDE admin tool for Samba, and I've >>"shared" a subdirectory of my user account home directory. On the XP >>side I run "Add Network Place wizard" and it sees the Linux >>box--actually twice--as "Localhost" and a second alias I attached to the >>static IP address on the network card. But it doesn't see the folder I >>supposedly shared and, therefore, can't make a connection. I try typing >>it in, and it brings up a dialog box and tries to take a >>user/password--but nothing works. I'm sure I've done something on the >>Samba side wrong. Any ideas? >> >>Olwe >> >> > >Hmm. I suspect it's something simple like a missing/incomplete password >database, but it's possible that your Linux box is broadcasting it's >network address as 127.0.0.1 (localhost), probably along with whatever >your real LAN IP address is (that would explain the two entries, at >least). If the XP box is trying to connect to 127.0.0.1, things >certainly won't work. Clients should be smarter than that, IMHO, though >I think I ran into this problem once in the past > >Ironically, I believe there was a Windows box on the other side that had >two IP addresses for some reason, and my Linux box trying to connect to >it was barfing in weird ways. Maybe someone knows of an >'nmblookup'-style program for Windows that could show if this is >happening or not. > >It might help a bit to set the 'netbios name' field for the Samba server >on the Fedora box. Samba also doesn't mind if you try to directly >access it by IP address (like \\192.168.1.15\SHARE), so you might try >that. > >You shouldn't have to manually specify an [olwe] share for your username >(though it looks like the point of adding that was to make it publically >accessible). Those are automagically managed with the special [homes] >share, but I guess I don't know if that can really be overridden or not. > >Otherwise, like Loren mentioned, you might have neglected to make Samba >users (the passwords between Unix and Windows are different, so Samba >needs its own database). > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Aug 14 15:49:45 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <411E7393.5060402@cpinternet.com> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> <1092505640.9564.155.camel@3po> <411E7393.5060402@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040814204945.GA6372@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 03:18:27PM -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > Actually, Windows sees the "Samba Server (Lothlorien)" when I click > around on the Network places. Then when I click on the Samba-Linux box I > get: "Lothlorien is not accessible. You might not have permission to use > this network resource. Contact the admin.....The network path was not > found." > > Odd that it sees the Samba-Linux box but can't get in or even act like > it's trying. Anyway here's my smb.conf again: > ---- snip... > [global] > > hosts allow = 192.168.0. 127. Is the Windows box on the 192.168.0 subnet? Check with ipconfig.exe. > encrypt passwords = yes > smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd Do you have an entry for yourself in the smbpasswd file? Add an entry using: smbpasswd -a > # Unix users can map to different SMB User names > username map = /etc/samba/smbusers What is in smbusers? > [olwe] > path = /home/olwe > writeable = yes > guest ok = yes > -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 --- Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly. -- Voltaire _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sat Aug 14 16:13:52 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <20040814204945.GA6372@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> <1092505640.9564.155.camel@3po> <411E7393.5060402@cpinternet.com> <20040814204945.GA6372@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <411E8090.9020107@cpinternet.com> James Kaufman wrote: >>[global] >> >>hosts allow = 192.168.0. 127. >> >> > >Is the Windows box on the 192.168.0 subnet? Check with ipconfig.exe. > > Yes, it's the "server" for internet connection sharing: 192.168.0.1 > > >> encrypt passwords = yes >> smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd >> >> > >Do you have an entry for yourself in the smbpasswd file? Add an entry using: > >smbpasswd -a > > yes > > >># Unix users can map to different SMB User names >> username map = /etc/samba/smbusers >> >> > >What is in smbusers? > > > root, nobody, olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sun Aug 15 11:12:03 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <411F8B53.9070608@visi.com> The book that solved 99% of my Samba problems is... *"Linux Network Toolkit"* It has step by step instructions on setting up a network using a Linux server for use with windows based clients. The version I have was published in 1998, came with Red Hat 5.0 and worked with Windows 95 clients. It does not use GUI tools (shell based) so it may be undesirable for some, but it's so easy to follow. Best investment I made in a technology book "ever" it was almost $50 new back in 1998. Windows 98 and NT use encrypted passwords so I had to make a change when I went to Windows 98... I found that fix on the Red Hat site. Let me know if you want that I have it. I also have "The Samba Trouble Shooting Guide in DOC format. Let me know if you would like it. I did google the book name and found this list on bookchecker.com Amazon has it for $1.99 + shipping. http://www.bookchecker.com/0764531468 I know this is not an answer but you may thank me later. You may need to check your host name, in a shell type "hostname" no quotes If it returns Localhost you will need to change the host name. BTW, it takes a long time for a host name to fall off the windows browser list. Sam. Olwe Melwasul wrote: > I'm trying to set up file sharing between an XP and a Fedora 2 box. On > the Linux side, I'm using the KDE admin tool for Samba, and I've > "shared" a subdirectory of my user account home directory. On the XP > side I run "Add Network Place wizard" and it sees the Linux > box--actually twice--as "Localhost" and a second alias I attached to > the static IP address on the network card. But it doesn't see the > folder I supposedly shared and, therefore, can't make a connection. I > try typing it in, and it brings up a dialog box and tries to take a > user/password--but nothing works. I'm sure I've done something on the > Samba side wrong. Any ideas? > > Olwe > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sun Aug 15 11:11:56 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Samba newbie probs In-Reply-To: <411F8B53.9070608@visi.com> References: <411D759F.4060207@cpinternet.com> <411F8B53.9070608@visi.com> Message-ID: <411F8B4C.3090203@cpinternet.com> Firewall! I "entrusted" the whole dang ethernet card (it's my LAN) and, and...it worked. Now, any ideas how to craft a Fedora firewall to allow Samba (as well as ssh, ftp, http) without enabling the whole dang card? Sam MacDonald wrote: > The book that solved 99% of my Samba problems is... > *"Linux Network Toolkit"* > > It has step by step instructions on setting up a network using a Linux > server for use with windows based clients. > The version I have was published in 1998, came with Red Hat 5.0 and > worked with Windows 95 clients. > It does not use GUI tools (shell based) so it may be undesirable for > some, but it's so easy to follow. > Best investment I made in a technology book "ever" it was almost $50 > new back in 1998. > > Windows 98 and NT use encrypted passwords so I had to make a change > when I went to Windows 98... > I found that fix on the Red Hat site. > Let me know if you want that I have it. > I also have "The Samba Trouble Shooting Guide in DOC format. > Let me know if you would like it. > > I did google the book name and found this list on bookchecker.com > Amazon has it for $1.99 + shipping. > > http://www.bookchecker.com/0764531468 > > I know this is not an answer but you may thank me later. > > You may need to check your host name, in a shell type "hostname" no > quotes > If it returns Localhost you will need to change the host name. > BTW, it takes a long time for a host name to fall off the windows > browser list. > > Sam. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cxobert at goldengate.net Sun Aug 15 14:06:30 2004 From: cxobert at goldengate.net (Charlie Obert) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re:Linux Network Toolkit book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411FB436.2090306@goldengate.net> That book, 'Linux Network Toolkit' that Sam MacDonald referred to - Abebooks.com has used and remaindered copies starting at $2.00. They now have one fewer. Cheers, Charlie Obert >Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > >>The book that solved 99% of my Samba problems is... >>*"Linux Network Toolkit"* >> >>It has step by step instructions on setting up a network using a Linux >>server for use with windows based clients. >>The version I have was published in 1998, came with Red Hat 5.0 and >>worked with Windows 95 clients. >>It does not use GUI tools (shell based) so it may be undesirable for >>some, but it's so easy to follow. >>Best investment I made in a technology book "ever" it was almost $50 >>new back in 1998. >> >> -- Cheers, Charlie Obert Fear is the root of war and all violence. Our human task is to live by love, casting out all fear. War depends upon enemies. Life depends upon friends. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sun Aug 15 16:44:44 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mod_perl hosting? Message-ID: <411FD94C.9030508@cpinternet.com> Does anybody know of Web hosting (reasonable) that offers mod_perl. Mine, dreamhost.com, does not, claiming too much memory demand. Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sun Aug 15 19:03:38 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Duluth LUG? Message-ID: <411FF9DA.1030709@cpinternet.com> Is there still a Duluth LUG? I went to one of their meetings back in Dec 2002, but lost track of them. Their web site doesn't appear to be real and the email contact doesn't respond. Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Aug 15 19:03:08 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408160003.i7G038h31439@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: External SCSI Harddrive I have a external SCSI hard drive. I don't know how big the drive inside is. The SCSI cables are included with it. Price: 15.00 Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun Aug 15 19:38:04 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408160038.i7G0c4000303@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 100mhz Compaq I have a 100mhz compaq for sale. System Specs: 100mhz 468 96mb ram 1gb hard drive cd-rom floppy Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Sun Aug 15 21:20:13 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mod_perl hosting? In-Reply-To: <411FD94C.9030508@cpinternet.com> References: <411FD94C.9030508@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040815212013.00005db3@schubert> I offer hosting with mod_perl - I'll give you a TCLUG discount, contact me offlist. Josh On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:44:44 -0500 Olwe Melwasul wrote: > Does anybody know of Web hosting (reasonable) that offers mod_perl. > Mine, dreamhost.com, does not, claiming too much memory demand. > > Olwe > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From larry.pint at ntuminc.com Mon Aug 16 10:55:16 2004 From: larry.pint at ntuminc.com (Larry Pint) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version 2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. Larry Pint _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Mon Aug 16 12:17:18 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP exam/test scripts In-Reply-To: References: <20040811012210.B20285@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20AFDEF8-EFA8-11D8-A194-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> I'm looking for a php script that allows me to put in multiple choice questions and score based on that. Ideally, I'd be able to put in more than one test also. I've got some sample questions for some exams that I'm going to be taking, and it would be nice to have them on a web page or in some sort of automated testing/scoring system. I prefer something that's not super involved to set up as I'd rather waste my time getting the questions into it rather than getting the thing set up. Thanks. -jay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Mon Aug 16 12:45:31 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] PHP exam/test scripts In-Reply-To: <20AFDEF8-EFA8-11D8-A194-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <20040811012210.B20285@thinkunix.net> <20AFDEF8-EFA8-11D8-A194-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <20040816124531.000018d4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:17:18 -0500 Jay Austad wrote: > I'm looking for a php script that allows me to put in multiple > choice questions and score based on that. Ideally, I'd be able to > put in more than one test also. You'll likely have a better response from the TCPHP ML, it's pretty active with some very knowledgable PHP folks. http://www.tcphp.org/ Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Mon Aug 16 12:58:38 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> Message-ID: <1092679118.4120f5ce2aad4@my.visi.com> I've found the easist way to do this is... Be sure Samba is running Open a Shell if your running X windows Change directory to /mnt Create a directory in /mnt and remember the name type smbmount at the # you will have and example of the string you need to type to mount the smb share something like the following mount -t smbfs //servername/sharename /mountdirectory -o username=mywindowsusername,password=mywindowspassword //servername/sharename Windows share /mnt/mountdirectory directory in /mnt Sam. Quoting Larry Pint : > I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. > > I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a > program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write > to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, > which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows > share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version > 2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) > > Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? > > Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. > > Larry Pint > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Mon Aug 16 13:05:09 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:39 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> Message-ID: <4120F755.9060100@cpinternet.com> I'd like to do the same thing. Actually, I know about the Samba client (not the Samba server) meant for "network browsing" and about LISA, the daemon behind it. I'm guessing for programming there must be a Samba "lib" somewhere on the Linux side that has a Samba client API. Olwe Larry Pint wrote: > I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. > > I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a > program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write > to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, > which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows > share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version > 2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) > > Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? > > Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. > > Larry Pint > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From baz at winternet.com Mon Aug 16 13:50:01 2004 From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> <4120F755.9060100@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <058901c483c2$3ba01ee0$7746f6cc@baztech.com> I can tell you from my experience that accessing and writing to a Linux box from a windows machine using Samba really does work, and it works with the configuration as it is nearly out of the box. I used RedHat 9 and Fedora Core 2 both successfully in the same way. I used user, rather than machine, authentication, so it involved creating users in /etc/samba/smbusers and passwords in /etc/samba/smbpasswd. The user id and password I used for the smbusers were the same as my Windows 2000 logon name/password. That was the hardest part. Anyone for filling us in on how to create new smbusers? I did it a couple of times but can't bring it to memory. Anyway, the Windows machines that needed to access the Linux box share were all part of a workgroup and not a domain. In /etc/samba/smb.conf I declared the Linux box to be part of the same workgroup. You could conceivably use the SWAT utility to configure samba, but I just went through the /etc/samba/smb.conf and changed the appropriate lines, and created new shares at the bottom of the file. If you look in /etc/samba/smb.conf you will see what I mean. I left most things at standard distribution settings. Be sure to create a copy of the original config file in case you need to retrace your steps. Once you tweak the config file and create the samba users and passwords, you should start the daemon: (in RedHat/Fedora) # service smb start And that should start two daemons, smb and nmb. The nmb is for netbios name resolution. Then you should see the new Linux Samba shares in "Network Neighborhood" in windows. Hope this at least gets you started. Bryan Zimmer BRYAN ZIMMER ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olwe Melwasul" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux > I'd like to do the same thing. Actually, I know about the Samba client > (not the Samba server) meant for "network browsing" and about LISA, the > daemon behind it. I'm guessing for programming there must be a Samba > "lib" somewhere on the Linux side that has a Samba client API. > > Olwe > > Larry Pint wrote: > > > I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. > > > > I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a > > program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write > > to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, > > which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows > > share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version > > 2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) > > > > Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. > > > > Larry Pint > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From baz at winternet.com Mon Aug 16 13:50:07 2004 From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> <4120F755.9060100@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <058a01c483c2$3bf87810$7746f6cc@baztech.com> I can tell you from my experience that accessing and writing to a Linux box from a windows machine using Samba really does work, and it works with the configuration as it is nearly out of the box. I used RedHat 9 and Fedora Core 2 both successfully in the same way. I used user, rather than machine, authentication, so it involved creating users in /etc/samba/smbusers and passwords in /etc/samba/smbpasswd. The user id and password I used for the smbusers were the same as my Windows 2000 logon name/password. That was the hardest part. Anyone for filling us in on how to create new smbusers? I did it a couple of times but can't bring it to memory. Anyway, the Windows machines that needed to access the Linux box share were all part of a workgroup and not a domain. In /etc/samba/smb.conf I declared the Linux box to be part of the same workgroup. You could conceivably use the SWAT utility to configure samba, but I just went through the /etc/samba/smb.conf and changed the appropriate lines, and created new shares at the bottom of the file. If you look in /etc/samba/smb.conf you will see what I mean. I left most things at standard distribution settings. Be sure to create a copy of the original config file in case you need to retrace your steps. Once you tweak the config file and create the samba users and passwords, you should start the daemon: (in RedHat/Fedora) # service smb start And that should start two daemons, smb and nmb. The nmb is for netbios name resolution. Then you should see the new Linux Samba shares in "Network Neighborhood" in windows. Hope this at least gets you started. Bryan Zimmer BRYAN ZIMMER ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olwe Melwasul" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux > I'd like to do the same thing. Actually, I know about the Samba client > (not the Samba server) meant for "network browsing" and about LISA, the > daemon behind it. I'm guessing for programming there must be a Samba > "lib" somewhere on the Linux side that has a Samba client API. > > Olwe > > Larry Pint wrote: > > > I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. > > > > I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a > > program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write > > to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, > > which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows > > share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version > > 2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) > > > > Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. > > > > Larry Pint > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From larry.pint at ntuminc.com Mon Aug 16 16:07:04 2004 From: larry.pint at ntuminc.com (Larry Pint) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <058901c483c2$3ba01ee0$7746f6cc@baztech.com> References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> <4120F755.9060100@cpinternet.com> <058901c483c2$3ba01ee0$7746f6cc@baztech.com> Message-ID: <412121F8.8080205@ntuminc.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jhawley at hissingdragon.net Mon Aug 16 16:02:50 2004 From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] nagios cgi problems Message-ID: <1092690169.15967.95.camel@steelix.hissingdragon.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From larry.pint at ntuminc.com Mon Aug 16 16:16:23 2004 From: larry.pint at ntuminc.com (Larry Pint) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <1092679118.4120f5ce2aad4@my.visi.com> References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> <1092679118.4120f5ce2aad4@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <41212427.1060403@ntuminc.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com Mon Aug 16 16:44:34 2004 From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: <1092692674.4129142920.22880.sendItem@bloglines.com> smbmount is (i believe) simply an alias for "mount -t smbfs". So you should use one or the other, but not both. Try this: smbmount //imageserver/.... (the rest of your command) --- TCLUG Mailing List > Thanks for the help. This list is great! (Actually it's the people who > give their time to help newb's like me that are great!!) > > I tried your suggestion. I got an error message that said "could not > resolve mount point -t". I created a directory under /mnt named "ir". > The command line I used for the mount was: > > "smbmount mount -t smbfs //imageserver/images$ /mnt/ir -o > username=larryp,password=xxxxxxxx" (where xxxxxxxx was the password for > larryp on the Windows server) > > It looks to me like it didn't recognize the "smbfs" as a valid file > system. Could it be that that is not installed on this Linux server? I > thought it would be installed as part of Samba. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks again > > Larry > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From baz at winternet.com Mon Aug 16 16:46:13 2004 From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:40 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <058a01c483c2$3bf87810$7746f6cc@baztech.com> References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> <4120F755.9060100@cpinternet.com> <058a01c483c2$3bf87810$7746f6cc@baztech.com> Message-ID: <41212B25.1080203@winternet.com> Excuse this blooper, I got it backwards. I read it as getting to a Linux box from a windows machine, not what was actually requested. My apologies. Bryan Zimmer wrote: >I can tell you from my experience that accessing and writing to a Linux box >from a windows machine using Samba really does work, and it works with the >configuration as it is nearly out of the box. I used RedHat 9 and Fedora >Core 2 both successfully in the same way. > >I used user, rather than machine, authentication, so it involved creating >users in /etc/samba/smbusers and passwords in /etc/samba/smbpasswd. The >user id and password I used for the smbusers were the same as my Windows >2000 logon name/password. > >That was the hardest part. Anyone for filling us in on how to create new >smbusers? I did it a couple of times but can't bring it to memory. > >Anyway, the Windows machines that needed to access the Linux box share were >all part of a workgroup and not a domain. In /etc/samba/smb.conf I declared >the Linux box to be part of the same workgroup. You could conceivably use >the SWAT utility to configure samba, but I just went through the >/etc/samba/smb.conf and changed the appropriate lines, and created new >shares at the bottom of the file. If you look in /etc/samba/smb.conf you >will see what I mean. I left most things at standard distribution settings. >Be sure to create a copy of the original config file in case you need to >retrace your steps. > >Once you tweak the config file and create the samba users and passwords, you >should start the daemon: (in RedHat/Fedora) > ># service smb start > >And that should start two daemons, smb and nmb. The nmb is for netbios name >resolution. > >Then you should see the new Linux Samba shares in "Network Neighborhood" in >windows. > >Hope this at least gets you started. > >Bryan Zimmer > > > > > >BRYAN ZIMMER >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Olwe Melwasul" >To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:05 PM >Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux > > > > >>I'd like to do the same thing. Actually, I know about the Samba client >>(not the Samba server) meant for "network browsing" and about LISA, the >>daemon behind it. I'm guessing for programming there must be a Samba >>"lib" somewhere on the Linux side that has a Samba client API. >> >>Olwe >> >>Larry Pint wrote: >> >> >> >>>I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. >>> >>>I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a >>>program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write >>>to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, >>>which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows >>>share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version >>>2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) >>> >>>Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? >>> >>>Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. >>> >>>Larry Pint >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Mon Aug 16 16:56:04 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: Larry, I have to syncronize some files from a NetWare server volume to a share on a Windows workstation every morning, so maybe you can hack part of this to work for you: >>>>>START>>>>> #!/bin/bash # rsync-crystal-reports ECHO=/bin/echo NCPMOUNT=/usr/bin/ncpmount NCPUMOUNT=/usr/bin/ncpumount MOUNT=/bin/mount UMOUNT=/bin/umount RSYNC=/usr/bin/rsync USER=linuxuser NSERVER=nwserver NDNS=nwserver.workplace.com NUSER=nwuser.users.workplace NPASS=nwpassword NVOL=nwvol NMPOINT=/mnt/nwserver MFS=smbfs MUSER=msuser MPASS=mspassword MOPTS=username=$MUSER,password=$MPASS,uid=$USER,gid=$USER MSHARE=//msserver/msshare MMPOINT=/mnt/msserver RSRC=/mnt/nwserver/HOME/Crystal\ Reports/ RDST=/mnt/msserver/ $ECHO "=== $0 start ===" $ECHO Mounting NetWare volume $NCPMOUNT -S $NSERVER -A $NDNS -U $NUSER -P $NPASS -u $USER -g $USER -V $NVOL $NMPOINT NRV=$? if [ "$NRV" != "0" ]; then $ECHO "* NetWare mount failure -- exit status $NRV" $ECHO " Servername: $NSERVER" $ECHO " Server DNS: $NDNS" $ECHO " Username: $NUSER" $ECHO " Volume: $NVOL" $ECHO " Mount Point: $NMPOINT" exit $NRV fi $ECHO Mounting Windows share $MOUNT -t $MFS -o $MOPTS $MSHARE $MMPOINT MRV=$? if [ "$MRV" != "0" ]; then $ECHO "* Windows mount failure -- exit status $MRV" $ECHO " Sharename: $MSHARE" $ECHO " Username: $MUSER" $ECHO " UNIX Username: $USER" $ECHO " Mount Point: $MMPOINT" exit $MRV fi $ECHO Performing rsync of files $ECHO "===============================================================" $RSYNC -rtv "$RSRC" "$RDST" $ECHO "===============================================================" $ECHO Unmounting NetWare volume $NCPUMOUNT $NMPOINT $ECHO Unmounting Windows share $UMOUNT $MMPOINT $ECHO "=== $0 stop ===" <<<<>> larry.pint@ntuminc.com 08/16/04 04:07PM >>> Thanks, Brian. I'm actually trying to go the other way. I have the Windows PC's reading and writing files on the Linux server. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon Aug 16 18:00:01 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408162300.i7GN01c23769@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want for Free Subject: WANTED: IBM Aptiva parts/72pin-SIMMS Looking for old IBM Aptiva parts, and 72-pin SIMMS, preferrable 32 MB or larger. Prefer free but would be willing to pay something for the memory. Seller Email address: blackcrow77 at yahoo dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Mon Aug 16 18:24:14 2004 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <41212427.1060403@ntuminc.com> Message-ID: | "smbmount mount -t smbfs //imageserver/images$ /mnt/ir -o | username=larryp,password=xxxxxxxx" (where xxxxxxxx was the password for | larryp on the Windows server) You haven't quite got your command right there. :) First issue is that smbmount isn't intended to be used directly, but if you forget the options for smbfs you can run smbmount and it will give you a list of all the options. The command should look like: mount -t smbfs -o username=larryp,rw //server/share\$ /mnt/mountpoint Make sure you enter your $ prefixed with a \ or your shell (usually bash) will try to replace the $ with an enviorment variable. I think you have to escape the $ in fstab as well. It's a good idea not to put your password on the command line. If a password is required, you will be prompted. If you put your password on the command line, it will show up in ps aux and elsewhere. If you are just looking to transfer files to or from a windows server, you can also use smbclient. For example, I have a cron job that created a tar file every night then transfers the tarball to a windows server where it can be backed up by BackupExec. The smbclient part of the script looks something like: smbclient //server/share -A /root/.smbauth -N -c "prompt;lcd / project/tarball/;mput *.bz2;exit" smbclient is similar to a ftp client. -A is a file with the username/password for the windows server in it. The format is quite simple: /root/.smbauth: username = user password = password domain = domain -N surpresses authintication...I don't think you need it when you use -A, but I put it in for good measure. -c should be followed by a list of semi-color seperated smbclient commands to run. So smbclient connects to the windows server, then changes local directory to /project/tarballs, then copies all .bz2 files to the server, then smbclients exits. If you don't know smbclient commands, just drop the -c and play around with smbclient. If you've ever used a command line ftp client, it's easy enough to figure out. I don't know what type of application you're writing, but if you wanted to access smb shares from a program you're writing I'd look into the GNOME and/or KDE VFS stuff. Those are the only smb client libs that are jumping into my memory...every other gui client I can think of is just a front end for smbclient. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Mon Aug 16 20:06:54 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41215A2E.1040103@cpinternet.com> But people, can't you just tap into the Samba client on the Linux side somehow to get to Windows folders? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Mon Aug 16 21:41:57 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <41215A2E.1040103@cpinternet.com> References: <41215A2E.1040103@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <20040817024157.GA23112@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 08:06:54PM -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > But people, can't you just tap into the Samba client on the Linux side > somehow to get to Windows folders? > > Olwe > > There's a program I used a year ago called LinNeighborhood. I don't think it's being maintained anymore, but you can find it at http://www.bnro.de/~schmidjo/. It might be what you are looking for. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com Mon Aug 16 23:07:49 2004 From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: <1092715669.3057313943.11153.sendItem@bloglines.com> You can browse Samba networks with nautilus as well (at least as of gnome 2.6 -- don't remember previous versions), but it's much slower than mounting the filesystem. --- TCLUG Mailing List References: <4120D8E4.2020205@ntuminc.com> <1092679118.4120f5ce2aad4@my.visi.com> <41212427.1060403@ntuminc.com> Message-ID: <41219E08.9030909@visi.com> incorrect smbmount mount -t smbfs //imageserver/images$ /... correct mount -t smbfs //imageserver/images$ /... you don't need the "smbmount" when doing it this way. You can also put the line in a text file, make it executable and you have a shell script! Larry Pint wrote: > Sam, > > Thanks for the help. This list is great! (Actually it's the people > who give their time to help newb's like me that are great!!) > > I tried your suggestion. I got an error message that said "could not > resolve mount point -t". I created a directory under /mnt named > "ir". The command line I used for the mount was: > > "smbmount mount -t smbfs //imageserver/images$ /mnt/ir -o > username=larryp,password=xxxxxxxx" (where xxxxxxxx was the password > for larryp on the Windows server) > > It looks to me like it didn't recognize the "smbfs" as a valid file > system. Could it be that that is not installed on this Linux server? > I thought it would be installed as part of Samba. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks again > > Larry > > smac@visi.com wrote: > >>I've found the easist way to do this is... >>Be sure Samba is running >>Open a Shell if your running X windows >>Change directory to /mnt >>Create a directory in /mnt and remember the name >> >>type smbmount at the # >> you will have and example of the string you need to type to mount the >> smb share something like the following >> >>mount -t smbfs //servername/sharename /mountdirectory -o >>username=mywindowsusername,password=mywindowspassword >> >>//servername/sharename Windows share >> >>/mnt/mountdirectory directory in /mnt >> >> >>Sam. >> >> >>Quoting Larry Pint : >> >> >> >>>I am a programmer, not a Linux OS expert, so please bear with me. >>> >>>I need to access a shared drive on a Windows 2003 Server from within a >>>program running on a Linux box. I'm unable to figure out how to write >>>to that drive. I suspect it has something to do with either Samba, >>>which we have installed on the Linux machine, or mounting the Windows >>>share on the Linux machine (or both). (Red Hat Linux version >>>2.4.20-8(?) Samba version 2.2.7a) >>> >>>Can someone tell me how to accomplish this? >>> >>>Thanks for any suggestions you can offer me. >>> >>>Larry Pint >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Aug 17 01:03:52 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41219FC8.3000806@visi.com> Make it simple and install services for netware on the windows box. Then setup an AT on the window box that runs a script that copies the files form the netware box to the windows box. As long as the username and password are the same on both windows and netware it should be a simple... xcopy \\nwserver\share\file c:\folder\file in the script. Sam. KISMIF Keep it Simple Make it Fun Troy.A Johnson wrote: >Larry, > >I have to syncronize some files from a >NetWare server volume to a share on >a Windows workstation every morning, >so maybe you can hack part of this to >work for you: > > > >>>>>>START>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >#!/bin/bash > ># rsync-crystal-reports > >ECHO=/bin/echo >NCPMOUNT=/usr/bin/ncpmount >NCPUMOUNT=/usr/bin/ncpumount >MOUNT=/bin/mount >UMOUNT=/bin/umount >RSYNC=/usr/bin/rsync > >USER=linuxuser > >NSERVER=nwserver >NDNS=nwserver.workplace.com >NUSER=nwuser.users.workplace >NPASS=nwpassword >NVOL=nwvol >NMPOINT=/mnt/nwserver > >MFS=smbfs >MUSER=msuser >MPASS=mspassword >MOPTS=username=$MUSER,password=$MPASS,uid=$USER,gid=$USER >MSHARE=//msserver/msshare >MMPOINT=/mnt/msserver > >RSRC=/mnt/nwserver/HOME/Crystal\ Reports/ >RDST=/mnt/msserver/ > >$ECHO "=== $0 start ===" > >$ECHO Mounting NetWare volume >$NCPMOUNT -S $NSERVER -A $NDNS -U $NUSER -P $NPASS -u $USER -g $USER -V >$NVOL $NMPOINT >NRV=$? >if [ "$NRV" != "0" ]; then > $ECHO "* NetWare mount failure -- exit status $NRV" > $ECHO " Servername: $NSERVER" > $ECHO " Server DNS: $NDNS" > $ECHO " Username: $NUSER" > $ECHO " Volume: $NVOL" > $ECHO " Mount Point: $NMPOINT" > exit $NRV >fi >$ECHO Mounting Windows share >$MOUNT -t $MFS -o $MOPTS $MSHARE $MMPOINT >MRV=$? >if [ "$MRV" != "0" ]; then > $ECHO "* Windows mount failure -- exit status $MRV" > $ECHO " Sharename: $MSHARE" > $ECHO " Username: $MUSER" > $ECHO " UNIX Username: $USER" > $ECHO " Mount Point: $MMPOINT" > exit $MRV >fi > >$ECHO Performing rsync of files >$ECHO "===============================================================" >$RSYNC -rtv "$RSRC" "$RDST" >$ECHO "===============================================================" > >$ECHO Unmounting NetWare volume >$NCPUMOUNT $NMPOINT >$ECHO Unmounting Windows share >$UMOUNT $MMPOINT > >$ECHO "=== $0 stop ===" ><<<< >Good luck, > >Troy > > > >>>>larry.pint@ntuminc.com 08/16/04 04:07PM >>> >>>> >>>> >Thanks, Brian. > >I'm actually trying to go the other way. I have the Windows PC's >reading and writing files on the Linux server. > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Tue Aug 17 01:13:04 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: <41215A2E.1040103@cpinternet.com> References: <41215A2E.1040103@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <4121A1F0.4090502@visi.com> If I could remember the name of the program that is like Norton Commander... MC midnight commander In a shell type "mc" if it starts your half way to browsing. You still need to mount filesystems that are /*not*/ on the local machine. Sam. Olwe Melwasul wrote: > But people, can't you just tap into the Samba client on the Linux side > somehow to get to Windows folders? > > Olwe > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Aug 17 06:28:44 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408171128.i7HBSiK32585@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Subject: testing Please include a detailed description of the item including any accessories, warranty, age, defects, and payment requirements or information. For your own safety, please do not include any contact information. Your buyers will be able to email you from your ad. Seller Email address: jpschewe at mtu dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Aug 17 06:31:51 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408171131.i7HBVph01305@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: HP NetServer HP NetServer LX Pro with 4 processors and 1.5GB RAM. See mtu.net/~jpschewe/forsale for full specs. Will also throw in 3 UW SCSI drives: ST1917W (8GB), ST34501W (4GB), ST34371W(4GB). Price: $100, will haul within Twin Cities. Seller Email address: jpschewe at mtu dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Aug 17 06:32:32 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408171132.i7HBWWx02111@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: HP Desk Jet 500 HP Desk Jet 500 B&W printer with manuals. See mtu.net/~jpschewe/forsale for a larger picture. Price: $10 Seller Email address: jpschewe at mtu dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Aug 17 06:32:44 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408171132.i7HBWih02203@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Epson Stylus Color printer Epson Stylus Color printer. See mtu.net/~jpschewe/forsale for a larger picture. Price: $10 Seller Email address: jpschewe at mtu dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Aug 17 09:52:27 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:41 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: Nah, I don't want this box dependent on our NetWare infrastructure (if it doesn't have to be), or maintain another piece of software on this box, or backup the 'at' script somewhere because I'll forget what it does tomorrow. It is a client machine, and if it died, replacing it is easy, and _that_ is what I want to make simple. >>> smac@visi.com 08/17/04 01:03AM >>> Make it simple and install services for netware on the windows box. Then setup an AT on the window box that runs a script that copies the files form the netware box to the windows box. As long as the username and password are the same on both windows and netware it should be a simple... xcopy \\nwserver\share\file c:\folder\file in the script. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Tue Aug 17 10:16:19 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E47C@owa.compellent.com> Try robocopy.exe from Microsoft. It's kinda like a more stupid version of rsync. There is a /MIR option that will mirror. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Troy.A Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:52 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org; smac@visi.com Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Nah, I don't want this box dependent on our NetWare infrastructure (if it doesn't have to be), or maintain another piece of software on this box, or backup the 'at' script somewhere because I'll forget what it does tomorrow. It is a client machine, and if it died, replacing it is easy, and _that_ is what I want to make simple. >>> smac@visi.com 08/17/04 01:03AM >>> Make it simple and install services for netware on the windows box. Then setup an AT on the window box that runs a script that copies the files form the netware box to the windows box. As long as the username and password are the same on both windows and netware it should be a simple... xcopy \\nwserver\share\file c:\folder\file in the script. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Aug 17 10:40:40 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: In this scenario, like the 'xcopy' option, it doesn't get done what I want to do. That is, making the client machine (and also it's eventual replacement) blissfully unaware that it is being kept up to date. That said, it looks interesting and I will check it out. Thanks! :-) >>> Ben.Neigebauer@compellent.com 08/17/04 10:16AM >>> Try robocopy.exe from Microsoft. It's kinda like a more stupid version of rsync. There is a /MIR option that will mirror. -----Original Message----- Nah, I don't want this box dependent on our NetWare infrastructure (if it doesn't have to be), or maintain another piece of software on this box, or backup the 'at' script somewhere because I'll forget what it does tomorrow. It is a client machine, and if it died, replacing it is easy, and _that_ is what I want to make simple. >>> smac@visi.com 08/17/04 01:03AM >>> Make it simple and install services for netware on the windows box. Then setup an AT on the window box that runs a script that copies the files form the netware box to the windows box. As long as the username and password are the same on both windows and netware it should be a simple... xcopy \\nwserver\share\file c:\folder\file in the script. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 17 11:00:04 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare Message-ID: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com> A coworker is doing an assessment comparing groupware solutions for a client. They're currently using straight-up SMTP + POP3 clients. Exchange is an option, but these guys are a non-profit and pretty open source-friendly, so they're looking for open solutions as well. I've found what seem to be the big two, eGroupWare, and OpenGroupWare. I'm wondering: are any of you using either of these? Are you using a different groupware solution providing group messaging, calendaring, etc. via a web interface? They would like this externally accessible. If you are using these, or another product, how would you rate the setup on a difficulty scale? How much maintenance does the product require? Would you say that once running, it's something someone with less than a year of *N?X experience could manage? As a final question, would your proposed solution run on OpenBSD? They're using this now, and setting up a new box is no big deal, but something to consider, still. Thanks! -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Tue Aug 17 11:24:26 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E384@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> I use SuSE Linux OpenExchange, which is based on openxchange....the open exchange portion of this was recently GPLed. Works great for me, has a plug-in you can use to interface with outlook if you want and the web interface works very well....great for calendaring, contacts, document drop area and forums built in...I would recommend checking it out. Has worked great for me Dan -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of John T. Hoffoss Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:00 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare A coworker is doing an assessment comparing groupware solutions for a client. They're currently using straight-up SMTP + POP3 clients. Exchange is an option, but these guys are a non-profit and pretty open source-friendly, so they're looking for open solutions as well. I've found what seem to be the big two, eGroupWare, and OpenGroupWare. I'm wondering: are any of you using either of these? Are you using a different groupware solution providing group messaging, calendaring, etc. via a web interface? They would like this externally accessible. If you are using these, or another product, how would you rate the setup on a difficulty scale? How much maintenance does the product require? Would you say that once running, it's something someone with less than a year of *N?X experience could manage? As a final question, would your proposed solution run on OpenBSD? They're using this now, and setting up a new box is no big deal, but something to consider, still. Thanks! -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Tue Aug 17 13:30:32 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl error In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E384@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E384@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <86027A72-F07B-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> I'm getting the following error message when trying to run a CGI that uses the Template-Toolkit modules for perl. Any ideas? The module is there. Content-Type: text/html Can't locate object method "print" via package "Template" at /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 109. Content-type: text/html Software error: Can't locate object method "code" via package "Template" at /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 88. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 17 14:20:02 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare In-Reply-To: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16674.23138.515384.395421@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John T Hoffoss writes: John> A coworker is doing an assessment comparing groupware solutions for a John> client. They're currently using straight-up SMTP + POP3 clients. John> Exchange is an option, but these guys are a non-profit and pretty open John> source-friendly, so they're looking for open solutions as well. I've John> found what seem to be the big two, eGroupWare, and OpenGroupWare. John> I'm wondering: are any of you using either of these? Are you using a John> different groupware solution providing group messaging, calendaring, John> etc. via a web interface? They would like this externally John> accessible. We've been using TikiWiki for a similar purpose, with some luck, after finding that PHProjekt was unbearably rigid. Calendaring in TikiWiki doesn't work very well in my opinion, and there doesn't seem to be a good way to synchronize your personal calendar with theirs. I'd love to find a solution that would synch with my Palm, either directly or through evolution or kdepim as an intermediary. We like the forums, file databases, and the wiki. At the time we got started, phprojekt seemed the best of the directly groupware-y solutions, but since then OpenGroupWare and eGroupWare have come along. We're a small organzation and not very rigid in terms of process and who gets to see what. We were constantly trying to break phprojekt, which was constantly trying to hide information from people and let only the project lead see it... John> If you are using these, or another product, how would you rate the John> setup on a difficulty scale? How much maintenance does the product John> require? Would you say that once running, it's something someone with John> less than a year of *N?X experience could manage? Set up was pretty easy. Maintenance pretty limited. But remember that all these things need to have someone do the backup! HTH, r _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Aug 17 14:38:01 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail recipe to catch all html email Message-ID: <20040817143801.A2987@thinkunix.net> Anyone have a working procmail recipe to catch ALL html email? Seems simple but I haven't managed to write one that always works. Some mail looks like it has the string (without the quotes, and at the start of a line): "Content-Type: text/html;" and sometimes it's just: "Content-Type: text/html". Sometimes the "Content-Type: text/html" piece appears in the body, eg, after the line break separating the message header from the body. I thought something this simple would do the trick but it's not matching (I do have procmail logging turned on). Any help would greatly be appreciated. :0 * ^Content-Type:.*text/html.* $SPAM I've also tried the following which don't always match: :0B * ^\[\-\-.*text\/html.*is.*unsupported.* $SPAM :0 * ^Content-Type:\<*text/html * ^Content-Type:\<*multipart/(mixed|alternative) $SPAM # this catches "Content-Type: text/plain" arg!!! :0 * B ?? ^Content-Type:.*text/html.* $SPAM :0 * B ?? ^Content-Type:.*text\/html.* $SPAM # match "Content-Type: text/html" anywhere in the message header or body :0 b * ^Content-Type:.*text/html * ^Content-Type:.*text/html; * B ?? ^Content-Type:.*text/html.* $SPAM -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 17 15:00:39 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare In-Reply-To: <16674.23138.515384.395421@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com> <16674.23138.515384.395421@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <914f813c0408171300119adc6b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:20:02 -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > >>>>> "John" == John T Hoffoss writes: > > John> A coworker is doing an assessment comparing groupware solutions for a > John> client. They're currently using straight-up SMTP + POP3 clients. > John> Exchange is an option, but these guys are a non-profit and pretty open > John> source-friendly, so they're looking for open solutions as well. I've > John> found what seem to be the big two, eGroupWare, and OpenGroupWare. > > John> I'm wondering: are any of you using either of these? Are you using a > John> different groupware solution providing group messaging, calendaring, > John> etc. via a web interface? They would like this externally > John> accessible. > > We've been using TikiWiki for a similar purpose, with some luck, after > finding that PHProjekt was unbearably rigid. > > Calendaring in TikiWiki doesn't work very well in my opinion, and > there doesn't seem to be a good way to synchronize your personal > calendar with theirs. I'd love to find a solution that would synch > with my Palm, either directly or through evolution or kdepim as an > intermediary. > > We like the forums, file databases, and the wiki. > > At the time we got started, phprojekt seemed the best of the directly > groupware-y solutions, but since then OpenGroupWare and eGroupWare > have come along. We're a small organzation and not very rigid in > terms of process and who gets to see what. We were constantly trying > to break phprojekt, which was constantly trying to hide information > from people and let only the project lead see it... > > John> If you are using these, or another product, how would you rate the > John> setup on a difficulty scale? How much maintenance does the product > John> require? Would you say that once running, it's something someone with > John> less than a year of *N?X experience could manage? > > Set up was pretty easy. Maintenance pretty limited. But remember > that all these things need to have someone do the backup! Backup we can educate their admin. Telling him to install any of these would be difficult for him though, as he'd have to figure out how to migrate the existing system, setup/reconfigure their mailer, (he followed a generic walkthrough the first time, guaranteed) tie that into LDAP (Active Directory) or something similar, and then set Apache/PHP/etc. up. We'll of course help them with setup & configuration, but if documentation is cohesive enough, this guy may be able to manage it. And being non-profit, the more he can do, the more they save. Unfortunately, he's not a good admin, and his solutions/implementations tend to be default/poorly done/etc. In addition, he's very anti-MS, while at the same time, not good enough to provide (or configure well) alternates on his own that perform the job as well or better than MS products. A wiki would be a decent solution for them, but I don't think their staff is technically capable of utilizing this to it's fullest extent. I don't think they'll even use a traditional forum in any extended way. I believe they at most need standard groupware functions: email, calendar, notes, and tasks. Perhaps a 'project' item would be useful as well, but that would only be used by a handful of the managers, to track their own projects. And they all have their own method of doing that on their own as it is. John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Aug 17 15:13:12 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail recipe to catch all html email In-Reply-To: <20040817143801.A2987@thinkunix.net> References: <20040817143801.A2987@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040817201312.GA10323@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Tue Aug 17 15:19:26 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl error In-Reply-To: <86027A72-F07B-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E384@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> <86027A72-F07B-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <20040817201926.GA1772@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 01:30:32PM -0500, Jay Austad wrote: > I'm getting the following error message when trying to run a CGI that > uses the Template-Toolkit modules for perl. Any ideas? The module is > there. > > Content-Type: text/html Can't locate object method "print" via > package "Template" at /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi > line 109. Content-type: text/html > > Software error: > Can't locate object method "code" via package "Template" at > /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 88. Did you "use Template;"? -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Aug 17 15:22:06 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LVM overhead Message-ID: <20040817152206.A18936@thinkunix.net> Anyone running LVM and have comments about the amount of overhead it uses? Here's my setup: Debian woody 2.4.27 kernel w/LVM compiled in. Box his attached to a jetstor filer that hands out a chunk of disks as a single scsi target. The jetstor is doing RAID-5. I know little else about the filer, someone else admins' it. dmesg shows: SCSI device sda: 627932160 512-byte hdwr sectors (321501 MB) If is just run fdisk, create one partition and then run "mke2fs -j -m1 /dev/sda1" I get: Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 309030804 32828 305858396 1% /jetstor If I setup the disk via LVM (pvcreate, vgcreate, lvcreate) I get: Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/vg01/lv00 263191620 32828 260484924 1% /jetstor I get the same results whether I use the entire disk "/dev/sda" or create a single partition of type "Linux LVM" (8e). Any idea why LVM takes about 45 GB of overhead? -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Aug 17 15:38:34 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: SOLVED: [TCLUG] Backspace key and Linux/BSD Message-ID: <20040817153834.B18936@thinkunix.net> > On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 12:12:42PM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > > Folks, > > I'm working on some Linux boxes (Redhat, Debian) but to get to them I > > have to go through and OpenBSD shell server. Typically I login to the > > OpenBSD box, run screen on it, then ssh to the Linux boxes. The problem > > I have is the backspace key doesn't work properly in vi on the Linux boxes, > > but works as expected at the shell prompt. In vi when I type a backspace > > I get '^?' char displayed on screen. Very annoying. Any idea what > > "stty erase" should be set to to make this work consistently at the > > shell prompt _AND_ in vi? I ended up setting my TERM type to "linux" on the RH9 box and that fixed the problem. Incidentally, when I ssh'd from an OpenBSD screen session to a Debian box, I didn't have this problem. RH9 uses termcap, Debian uses terminfo. More details on the problem/solution can be found here: http://thinkunix.net/unix/tips/screen-backspace.txt Thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Tue Aug 17 15:46:02 2004 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:42 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mod_perl hosting? In-Reply-To: <411FD94C.9030508@cpinternet.com> References: <411FD94C.9030508@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <1092775562.41226e8ad6b23@webmail.northlans.com> Olwe We do mod_perl hosting, and will help you with other aspects of hosting if you need. We are in located in a secure facility that has redundant power and tier 1 internet connections at very resonable prices. Contact me off the list and we can talk about it some more. http://www.northlans.com Jim Streit Quoting Olwe Melwasul : > Does anybody know of Web hosting (reasonable) that offers mod_perl. > Mine, dreamhost.com, does not, claiming too much memory demand. > > Olwe > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkey at usa.net Tue Aug 17 16:30:45 2004 From: jkey at usa.net (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LVM overhead In-Reply-To: <20040817152206.A18936@thinkunix.net> References: <20040817152206.A18936@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <41227905.40004@usa.net> Scot Jenkins wrote: > Anyone running LVM and have comments about the amount of overhead it > uses? Here's my setup: > > Debian woody 2.4.27 kernel w/LVM compiled in. Box his attached to a > jetstor filer that hands out a chunk of disks as a single scsi target. > The jetstor is doing RAID-5. I know little else about the filer, > someone else admins' it. > > dmesg shows: > SCSI device sda: 627932160 512-byte hdwr sectors (321501 MB) > > If is just run fdisk, create one partition and then run > "mke2fs -j -m1 /dev/sda1" I get: > > Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/sda1 309030804 32828 305858396 1% /jetstor > > > If I setup the disk via LVM (pvcreate, vgcreate, lvcreate) I get: > > Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/vg01/lv00 263191620 32828 260484924 1% /jetstor > > I get the same results whether I use the entire disk "/dev/sda" or > create a single partition of type "Linux LVM" (8e). > > Any idea why LVM takes about 45 GB of overhead? I just started using LVM on a slackware 10 box with two 200G hard drives. I first set up one drive under LVM and formated it with ext3 but the filesystem took a big enough chunk that I couldn't transfer the files from the almost full 200G hd. I ended up using reiserfs. with two 200G hd I have 398250112 1K blocks. Joseph Key _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Tue Aug 17 17:46:53 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl error In-Reply-To: <20040817201926.GA1772@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E384@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> <86027A72-F07B-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> <20040817201926.GA1772@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <55E6DB94-F09F-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Yep, it's in there. I'm trying to get a cgi script called "quizz" running, and it's not working out so well. -jay On Aug 17, 2004, at 3:19 PM, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 01:30:32PM -0500, Jay Austad wrote: >> I'm getting the following error message when trying to run a CGI that >> uses the Template-Toolkit modules for perl. Any ideas? The module is >> there. >> >> Content-Type: text/html Can't locate object method "print" via >> package "Template" at >> /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi >> line 109. Content-type: text/html >> >> Software error: >> Can't locate object method "code" via package "Template" at >> /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 88. > > Did you "use Template;"? > > -- > trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA > 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Tue Aug 17 19:49:20 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092790160.9564.3763.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From skodak at cs.umn.edu Wed Aug 18 06:26:52 2004 From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives Message-ID: Hi, I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to increase the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use for our research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, maxtor and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new ones. Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking of getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any good/bad experiences? Any good place to get such drives? Thanks Sreekumar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Aug 18 08:47:42 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive is a "used" drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off a lease. I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished without a problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your risk. Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 configuration, this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. Sam. Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : > Hi, > > I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to increase > the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use for our > research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, maxtor > and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new ones. > Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking of > getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any good/bad > experiences? Any good place to get such drives? > > Thanks > > Sreekumar > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Aug 18 09:12:50 2004 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your dead and looking for your backup, backup, backup. Quoting smac@visi.com: > The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive is a > "used" > drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off a lease. > I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished without a > > problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your risk. > > Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. > > I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 > configuration, > this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. > > Sam. > > > Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : > > > Hi, > > > > I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to increase > > the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use for our > > research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, maxtor > > and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new ones. > > Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking of > > getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any good/bad > > experiences? Any good place to get such drives? > > > > Thanks > > > > Sreekumar > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rware at interplastic.com Wed Aug 18 09:40:02 2004 From: rware at interplastic.com (rware@interplastic.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives Message-ID: <85FABEFDA46ED711943B003048276DF6D643A4@ipserver2.interplastic.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: jimstreit@northlans.com [mailto:jimstreit@northlans.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:13 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives > > With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your > dead and looking for your backup, backup, backup. > Then Mr. Murphy shows up and tells you that your scsi controller has been failing for quite some time and your backup aren't quite what you thought they were. It can be a cruel world. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Wed Aug 18 09:53:53 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <6C425586-F126-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Yep, I had 2 drives fail at the exact same time in a RAID-5 array with 14 disks. Curiously enough, most of the drives I've had fail, it's been the board on them, not the mechanicals. I just swapped out boards and got my data back. On Aug 18, 2004, at 9:12 AM, jimstreit@northlans.com wrote: > With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your dead and > looking for > your backup, backup, backup. > > Quoting smac@visi.com: > >> The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive >> is a >> "used" >> drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off a >> lease. >> I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished >> without a >> >> problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your >> risk. >> >> Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. >> >> I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 >> configuration, >> this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. >> >> Sam. >> >> >> Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to >>> increase >>> the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use >>> for our >>> research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, >>> maxtor >>> and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new >>> ones. >>> Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking >>> of >>> getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any >>> good/bad >>> experiences? Any good place to get such drives? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Sreekumar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Aug 18 10:17:45 2004 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl error In-Reply-To: <55E6DB94-F09F-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E384@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> <86027A72-F07B-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> <20040817201926.GA1772@mail.el-swifto.com> <55E6DB94-F09F-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <20040818151745.GA28954@mail.el-swifto.com> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 05:46:53PM -0500, Jay Austad wrote: > On Aug 17, 2004, at 3:19 PM, John J. Trammell wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 01:30:32PM -0500, Jay Austad wrote: >>> I'm getting the following error message when trying to run a CGI >>> that uses the Template-Toolkit modules for perl. Any ideas? The >>> module is there. >>> >>> Content-Type: text/html Can't locate object method "print" via >>> package "Template" at >>> /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi >>> line 109. Content-type: text/html >>> >>> Software error: >>> Can't locate object method "code" via package "Template" at >>> /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 88. >> >> Did you "use Template;"? > Yep, it's in there. > > I'm trying to get a cgi script called "quizz" running, and it's not > working out so well. After perusing the perldoc for Template, it looks like there aren't any "print" or "code" methods for the Template module, unless you're doing some nonstandard extension of the module. I'd suggest you consult with folks on comp.lang.perl.misc (don asbestos suit first, please), or ask on perlmonks.org, or ask the local perlmongers group. I'll fix it for you, but I don't work for free. :-) -- trammell@el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From whtdruid at druids-grove.net Wed Aug 18 10:22:40 2004 From: whtdruid at druids-grove.net (Daniel Rysztak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] perl error In-Reply-To: <86027A72-F07B-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: If you want me to look at it, e-mail me off list. whtdruid@druids-grove.net ============================ Daniel Rysztak, CCNP http://www.druids-grove.net/ -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jay Austad Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:31 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [TCLUG] perl error I'm getting the following error message when trying to run a CGI that uses the Template-Toolkit modules for perl. Any ideas? The module is there. Content-Type: text/html Can't locate object method "print" via package "Template" at /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 109. Content-type: text/html Software error: Can't locate object method "code" via package "Template" at /home/austad/www/www.signal15.com/quizz/index.cgi line 88. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Wed Aug 18 10:53:44 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Access to Windows share from Linux Message-ID: >>> hick0088@tc.umn.edu 08/17/04 07:49PM >>> On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 10:40, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > In this scenario, like the 'xcopy' option, > it doesn't get done what I want to do. > That is, making the client machine (and > also it's eventual replacement) blissfully > unaware that it is being kept up to date. >Hmm. Isn't that what smart caching network filesystems like >Andrew/Coda/Intermezzo are for? If they operated on Netware servers and Windows clients it might be a solution for me, but I don't think they do. The situation is a bit complicated: we run Solaris on our desktops, we authenticate our few Windows boxes with windows networking (Windows and Samba mixed). Tieing in another authentication source (the Netware tree) will not "simplify" things, and adding a Unix centric distributed file system does not address the problem. I could put the files on a Samba share (not on this particular Linux box), but they aren't needed anywhere but this one workstation, so syncing them there is as much of a "big deal" as syncing them anywhere else. I will put them on a share if they are ever needed by more than this one workstation, but that change will take little time. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com Wed Aug 18 10:27:23 2004 From: jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com (Jason Reynolds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:43 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions Message-ID: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure I'm not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB hard drive and stripping them in an array. I am also curious on the best case and power supply for such a setup. The system will be a dual processor computer. I know there are some storage experts out there. thanks in advance, jason reynolds _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 11:25:36 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:27:23 -0500, Jason Reynolds wrote: > I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video > editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure I'm > not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB > hard drive and stripping them in an array. I'm assumming you mean 250GB hard drives. If you're going to do this right, get five drives and put them in a raid 5 array. If you do a raid 0, which is sounds like you are, you're just asking for data loss. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Wed Aug 18 12:11:42 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:25:36 -0500 > From: Erik Anderson > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:27:23 -0500, Jason Reynolds > wrote: > > I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video > > editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure > > I'm not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four > > 250MB hard drive and stripping them in an array. > > I'm assumming you mean 250GB hard drives. If you're going to do this > right, get five drives and put them in a raid 5 array. If you do a raid > 0, which is sounds like you are, you're just asking for data loss. And in case you don't know why, it's because if any one of your four drives fails using RAID 0, the whole array fails. Sure you can recover from backup, but using a fifth drive and RAID 5 is a much faster recovery. Of course, you still have to do backups with RAID 5, just in case. Actually, if performance is paramount, you should look at RAID 3 because it has less of a write performance penalty than RAID 5. It is uncommon and therefore more expensive, however. RAID 0+1 is fast and redundant, but you'll need a lot of drives. (8x250GB) Chris _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From zibby+tclug at ringworld.org Wed Aug 18 12:09:36 2004 From: zibby+tclug at ringworld.org (Andy Zbikowski (Zibby)) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> Message-ID: Depending on your controller and chassis, there is the option of having hot spares that are automatically added to the raid if one of the drives fails. The best insurance you can get for a RAID array is extra disks setup as hot spares or kept in a handy storage area. $250 to have an extra bit of protection on hand is quite easy to justify. Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Wed Aug 18 13:02:54 2004 From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> Message-ID: <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> It depends on whose raid controller you are using. If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail replace the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss a read or write. Sam. Quoting "jimstreit@northlans.com" : > With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your dead and looking > for > your backup, backup, backup. > > Quoting smac@visi.com: > > > The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive is a > > "used" > > drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off a lease. > > I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished without > a > > > > problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your risk. > > > > Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. > > > > I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 > > configuration, > > this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. > > > > Sam. > > > > > > Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to increase > > > the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use for > our > > > research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, maxtor > > > and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new ones. > > > Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking of > > > getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any good/bad > > > experiences? Any good place to get such drives? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Sreekumar > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Aug 18 13:39:40 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <43098.12.47.38.130.1092854380.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Striping by itself is probably a bad idea since, if one drive fails, you'll be up the proverbial creek (/w no paddle). You might wish to look at one of the other RAID solutions such as RAID 1 or RAID 5 which will offer some fault tolerance. > I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video > editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure I'm > not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB > hard drive and stripping them in an array. > > I am also curious on the best case and power supply for such a setup. > The system will be a dual processor computer. > > I know there are some storage experts out there. > > thanks in advance, > jason reynolds > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Wed Aug 18 13:32:51 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:44 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LVM overhead In-Reply-To: <20040817152206.A18936@thinkunix.net>; from scot@thinkunix.net on Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 03:22:06PM -0500 References: <20040817152206.A18936@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040818133251.A22781@thinkunix.net> Scot Jenkins wrote: > Anyone running LVM and have comments about the amount of overhead it > uses? Here's my setup: > > Debian woody 2.4.27 kernel w/LVM compiled in. Box his attached to a > jetstor filer that hands out a chunk of disks as a single scsi target. > The jetstor is doing RAID-5. I know little else about the filer, > someone else admins' it. > > dmesg shows: > SCSI device sda: 627932160 512-byte hdwr sectors (321501 MB) > > If is just run fdisk, create one partition and then run > "mke2fs -j -m1 /dev/sda1" I get: > > Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/sda1 309030804 32828 305858396 1% /jetstor > > > If I setup the disk via LVM (pvcreate, vgcreate, lvcreate) I get: > > Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/vg01/lv00 263191620 32828 260484924 1% /jetstor > > I get the same results whether I use the entire disk "/dev/sda" or > create a single partition of type "Linux LVM" (8e). > > Any idea why LVM takes about 45 GB of overhead? Answering my own post: man vgcreate -s, --physicalextentsize PhysicalExtentSize[kKmMgGtT] Sets the physical extent size on physical volumes of this volume group. A size suffix (k for kilo- bytes up to t for terabytes) is optional, megabytes is the default if no suffix is present. Values can be from 8 KB to 16 GB in powers of 2. The default of 4 MB causes maximum LV sizes of ~256GB because as many as ~64k extents are supported per LV. In case larger maximum LV sizes are needed (later), you need to set the PE size to a larger value as well. Later changes of the PE size in an existing VG are not supported. Note where it says "The default of 4 MB causes maximum LV sizes of ~256GB ". By using the "-s" option to increase the physicalextentsize in the volume group, I was able to create about a 300 GB logical volume: # vgcreate -s 32M vg01 /dev/sda Tip: run "vgdisplay -v" after you run vgcreate and pay attention to the "MAX LV Size" value. # vgdisplay -v /dev/vg01 --- Volume group --- VG Name vg01 VG Access read/write VG Status available/resizable VG # 0 MAX LV 256 Cur LV 1 Open LV 0 MAX LV Size 2 TB <===== NOTE now 2 TB, not 255 GB (default) Max PV 256 Cur PV 1 Act PV 1 VG Size 299.38 GB PE Size 32 MB Total PE 9580 Alloc PE / Size 9568 / 299 GB Free PE / Size 12 / 384 MB VG UUID cf1kZt-pIVd-THrj-dovU-00Id-KY36-AvGTUJ -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Wed Aug 18 13:52:23 2004 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <1092855143.4123a567b968a@webmail.northlans.com> Only if you have an on-line hot spare. Quoting smac@visi.com: > It depends on whose raid controller you are using. > > If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail > replace the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss > a read or write. > > Sam. > > Quoting "jimstreit@northlans.com" : > > > With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your dead and looking > > for > > your backup, backup, backup. > > > > Quoting smac@visi.com: > > > > > The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive is a > > > "used" > > > drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off a > lease. > > > I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished > without > > a > > > > > > problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your risk. > > > > > > Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. > > > > > > I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 > > > configuration, > > > this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. > > > > > > Sam. > > > > > > > > > Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to > increase > > > > the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use for > > our > > > > research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, > maxtor > > > > and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new > ones. > > > > Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking > of > > > > getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any > good/bad > > > > experiences? Any good place to get such drives? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Sreekumar > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Wed Aug 18 14:29:48 2004 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:25:36 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:27:23 -0500, Jason Reynolds > wrote: >> I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video >> editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure I'm >> not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB >> hard drive and stripping them in an array. > > I'm assumming you mean 250GB hard drives. If you're going to do this > right, get five drives and put them in a raid 5 array. If you do a Maybe also might want to get one extra just in case one goes south - then you have a spare all ready to plug into the raid 5 array > raid 0, which is sounds like you are, you're just asking for data > loss. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From austad at signal15.com Wed Aug 18 15:00:20 2004 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <43098.12.47.38.130.1092854380.squirrel@12.47.38.130> References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> <43098.12.47.38.130.1092854380.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Message-ID: <3C0979AA-F151-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Raid 0+1 is your best best. Requires 8 drives to get the amount of storage you are looking for though. RAID-5 has poor write performance, actually a bit worse than just a single disk because it needs to calculate parity before writing it. If you're using it as a scratch disk though, you can probably just get by with a stripe. Just make sure you have your important stuff backed up elsewhere. -jay On Aug 18, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Garrett Krueger wrote: > Striping by itself is probably a bad idea since, if one drive fails, > you'll be up the proverbial creek (/w no paddle). You might wish to > look > at one of the other RAID solutions such as RAID 1 or RAID 5 which will > offer some fault tolerance. > >> I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video >> editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure >> I'm >> not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB >> hard drive and stripping them in an array. >> >> I am also curious on the best case and power supply for such a setup. >> The system will be a dual processor computer. >> >> I know there are some storage experts out there. >> >> thanks in advance, >> jason reynolds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Aug 18 14:56:50 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, smac@visi.com wrote: > It depends on whose raid controller you are using. > > If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail replace > the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss a read or write. Huh? RAID5 means 1 parity drive, so if two drives fail and you don't have a hot spare (or if the second drive fails before the spare has been fully brought into service), you will (by definition) lose the array. Doesn't matter who made the controllers. Or are you talking about RAID6, where you have two parity drives? -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Aug 18 15:28:12 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <3C0979AA-F151-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> <43098.12.47.38.130.1092854380.squirrel@12.47.38.130> <3C0979AA-F151-11D8-BE00-000A95A918D6@signal15.com> Message-ID: <59522.12.47.38.130.1092860892.squirrel@12.47.38.130> A server can also run into write performace woes with RAID 0+1 because of the mirroring aspect slowing it down by needing to write the same thing twice (although read performance is typically enhanced due to multiple identical data sources). > Raid 0+1 is your best best. Requires 8 drives to get the amount of > storage you are looking for though. RAID-5 has poor write performance, > actually a bit worse than just a single disk because it needs to > calculate parity before writing it. > > If you're using it as a scratch disk though, you can probably just get > by with a stripe. Just make sure you have your important stuff backed > up elsewhere. > > -jay > > On Aug 18, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Garrett Krueger wrote: > >> Striping by itself is probably a bad idea since, if one drive fails, >> you'll be up the proverbial creek (/w no paddle). You might wish to >> look >> at one of the other RAID solutions such as RAID 1 or RAID 5 which will >> offer some fault tolerance. >> >>> I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video >>> editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure >>> I'm >>> not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB >>> hard drive and stripping them in an array. >>> >>> I am also curious on the best case and power supply for such a setup. >>> The system will be a dual processor computer. >>> >>> I know there are some storage experts out there. >>> >>> thanks in advance, >>> jason reynolds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com Wed Aug 18 15:32:50 2004 From: Ben.Neigebauer at compellent.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions Message-ID: <3F7813665506CA479E7B48DA0DA829BD98E5CE@owa.compellent.com> Well, actually, it may have to write it twice, but each individual write happens faster because it is written to a stripe. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Garrett Krueger Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:28 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions A server can also run into write performace woes with RAID 0+1 because of the mirroring aspect slowing it down by needing to write the same thing twice (although read performance is typically enhanced due to multiple identical data sources). > Raid 0+1 is your best best. Requires 8 drives to get the amount of > storage you are looking for though. RAID-5 has poor write performance, > actually a bit worse than just a single disk because it needs to > calculate parity before writing it. > > If you're using it as a scratch disk though, you can probably just get > by with a stripe. Just make sure you have your important stuff backed > up elsewhere. > > -jay > > On Aug 18, 2004, at 1:39 PM, Garrett Krueger wrote: > >> Striping by itself is probably a bad idea since, if one drive fails, >> you'll be up the proverbial creek (/w no paddle). You might wish to >> look >> at one of the other RAID solutions such as RAID 1 or RAID 5 which will >> offer some fault tolerance. >> >>> I am helping a friend build a system that will be used for video >>> editing. It needs to have 1TB of storage and would like to make sure >>> I'm >>> not missing any options. I am currently planning on getting four 250MB >>> hard drive and stripping them in an array. >>> >>> I am also curious on the best case and power supply for such a setup. >>> The system will be a dual processor computer. >>> >>> I know there are some storage experts out there. >>> >>> thanks in advance, >>> jason reynolds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 16:45:10 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04081814456c581079@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:56:50 -0500 (CDT), Nate Carlson wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, smac@visi.com wrote: > > It depends on whose raid controller you are using. > > > > If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail replace > > the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss a read or write. > > Huh? > > RAID5 means 1 parity drive, so if two drives fail and you don't have a hot > spare (or if the second drive fails before the spare has been fully > brought into service), you will (by definition) lose the array. Doesn't > matter who made the controllers. > > Or are you talking about RAID6, where you have two parity drives? Actually, according to this site , RAID5 is distributed parity. Perhaps this is vendor-specific though. Effectively, this leads to "one parity drive". (X drives of size N results in X parity slices of size N/X, one per drive, which results in usable storage space equivalent to XN - N .) John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Wed Aug 18 17:06:21 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:45 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <914f813c04081814456c581079@mail.gmail.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> <914f813c04081814456c581079@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58384.12.47.38.130.1092866781.squirrel@12.47.38.130> I don't know if some vendors do it differently, but distributed parity *IS* pretty typical for RAID 5 > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:56:50 -0500 (CDT), Nate Carlson > wrote: >> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, smac@visi.com wrote: >> > It depends on whose raid controller you are using. >> > >> > If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail >> replace >> > the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss a read or write. >> >> Huh? >> >> RAID5 means 1 parity drive, so if two drives fail and you don't have a >> hot >> spare (or if the second drive fails before the spare has been fully >> brought into service), you will (by definition) lose the array. Doesn't >> matter who made the controllers. >> >> Or are you talking about RAID6, where you have two parity drives? > > Actually, according to this site , > RAID5 is distributed parity. Perhaps this is vendor-specific though. > Effectively, this leads to "one parity drive". (X drives of size N > results in X parity slices of size N/X, one per drive, which results > in usable storage space equivalent to XN - N .) > > John > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From WordenCar at aol.com Wed Aug 18 17:17:33 2004 From: WordenCar at aol.com (WordenCar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Internal Modem on Gateway Laptop Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From WordenCar at aol.com Wed Aug 18 17:27:38 2004 From: WordenCar at aol.com (WordenCar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Two Pointing Devices (Mice) and not one working Message-ID: <12f.4927bcfd.2e5531da@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From natecars at real-time.com Wed Aug 18 17:28:02 2004 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <914f813c04081814456c581079@mail.gmail.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> <914f813c04081814456c581079@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > Actually, according to this site , > RAID5 is distributed parity. Perhaps this is vendor-specific though. > Effectively, this leads to "one parity drive". (X drives of size N > results in X parity slices of size N/X, one per drive, which results in > usable storage space equivalent to XN - N .) Er, yeah, thanks for the clarification - parity blocks are spread across all disks, and use the equivilent of one drive's space. What I described (dedicated parity drive) would technically be RAID 3. That's what I get for shooting of a reply while on vacation. :) RAID6 stores two identical blocks of parity, so you lose the usable space of two drives, and can also lose two drives without losing data. Back to Sam's original scenario (losing two RAID5 drives without losing data) - I have also seen cases where drives are failing (not totally dead), and the RAID controller will still be able to access data from te failing drive - in that case, you could appear to lose two drives in RAID5 without losing data. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Aug 18 18:46:40 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] LVM overhead In-Reply-To: <20040818133251.A22781@thinkunix.net> References: <20040817152206.A18936@thinkunix.net> <20040818133251.A22781@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <1092872799.9564.3777.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Aug 18 19:06:08 2004 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200408190006.i7J068S21350@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: ibm tower i have the following for sale: IBM Personal Computer 300PL tower model, PIII 500, 192mb PC100, 6gb hdd, floppy, cd, integrated nic and sound. $60 or b.o. Seller Email address: lombardo at evilcricket dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 21:02:35 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Two Pointing Devices (Mice) and not one working In-Reply-To: <12f.4927bcfd.2e5531da@aol.com> References: <12f.4927bcfd.2e5531da@aol.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0408181902d32eb59@mail.gmail.com> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: wordencar@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:27:38 EDT Subject: [TCLUG] Two Pointing Devices (Mice) and not one working To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org I am making progress in installing Red Hat Linux 9.0 on my laptop. During the installation phase my Microsoft optical mouse (USB) worked perfectly. BUT after the boot process occured, I neither had my Microsoft mouse nor my laptop's Synaptics TouchPad (PS/2). Is RH linux confused? Any suggestions for what I might do to get one or both pointing devices to work? Both work in Windows XP. <<< In /etc/X11/XF86config, you will have a mouse config section that looks similar to the first entry here. Alter it to look similar, and add the second mouse. ### Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" # "Device" may be something different in your config; leave that one as-is Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" # Your mouse wheel will work! Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" # Adjust accordingly, depending on your mouse; this is for a three button mouse. Option "Buttons" "5" # (Left, Right, Wheel-Click, Wheel-up, Wheel-down) # This is what your mouse probably looks like. If you have less, it won't matter. EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse1" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "imps/2" # See note below on figuring out what to put here: Option "Device" "/dev/mouse1" # This makes the second mouse behave along with the first # This should, IIRC, allow your mouse to be hot-plugged, so it will work even if it # wasn't inserted when X started Option "SendCoreEvents" # Same as above Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Buttons" "5" EndSection ### Then find the ServerLayout listing and add the second mouse entry. ### Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "XFree86 Configured" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 # I forget what this is by default; try making it look like this, if it doesn't already # If it doesn't work, change it back :) InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" # This is the line you need to add: InputDevice "Mouse1" "AlwaysCore" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" # Option "BlankTime" "5" # Blank the screen after 5 minutes (Fake) Option "StandbyTime" "20" # Turn off screen after 10 minutes (DPMS) Option "SuspendTime" "40" # Full suspend after 20 minutes Option "OffTime" "60" # Turn off after half an hour EndSection ### Regarding what to put for the mouse Device for your new mouse, I'm not familiar with what RH will do here. The simplest way to figure this out is either do execute `ls -l /dev/m*` which will list all device nodes beginning with the letter m. You may have mouse, mouse1, mouse2, etc. or /dev/mice/mouse0, /dev/mice/mouse1, etc. or some other variant. If all else fails, log in to the console, plug in your USB mouse, then execute `dmesg`; it should say something that indicates a new USB mouse was detected, and should give some indication of what the system is calling it. Use that in the config file above. I'm not certain of all of this though, so maybe wait for another reply or wait for someone to agree/disagree with me. Either way, this is my laptop's config, and works with three different MS USB mice. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Wed Aug 18 20:15:18 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> Message-ID: <1092878118.9564.3818.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Thu Aug 19 12:52:40 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net Message-ID: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> OK. I'm using an Intel NIC, according to lspci it is: Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82540EM Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 02) Using latest e1000 driver from Intel, from source. This host (fedora core 2) is on a gigabit segment on our LAN. Other (Mac OSX) hosts on this segment are not having the problem. An NT 4.0 box is on the 10/100 segment of the LAN. The fc2 host has smbmount-ed a directory on the NT machine. Here's the problem: file transfers between these two computers have become extremely slow. Talking 50k/s. Here's 'ifconfig -v eth0' output: eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:07:E9:xx:xx:xx inet addr:192.xxx.x.xx Bcast:192.xxx.x.xxx Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: xxxx::xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:322464 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:304204 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:327465261 (312.2 Mb) TX bytes:253277737 (241.5 Mb) Base address:0xd000 Memory:cff80000-cffa0000 Thought it might be samba, but scp file transfers are just as slow. And it's any host on the 10/100 segment, not just the NT box. I'm using the e1000 driver with the default parameter settings. Can anybody help? Thanks, Steve -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Aug 19 13:23:09 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:46 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040819182309.GB4899@fandre.com> Is the duplexing set correctly? What type of switch is the system connected to? Cisco? I've had problems with intel cards/cisco boxes not negotiating correctly. If the system doesn't match the switch, you'll get terrible performance. # /sbin/mii-tool -v eth0: 100 Mbit, full duplex, link ok product info: vendor 00:50:43, model 2 rev 3 basic mode: 100 Mbit, full duplex basic status: link ok capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD advertising: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Steve Linabery wrote: > OK. I'm using an Intel NIC, according to lspci it is: Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82540EM Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 02) > > Using latest e1000 driver from Intel, from source. > > This host (fedora core 2) is on a gigabit segment on our LAN. Other (Mac OSX) hosts on this segment are not having the problem. > > An NT 4.0 box is on the 10/100 segment of the LAN. The fc2 host has smbmount-ed a directory on the NT machine. > > Here's the problem: file transfers between these two computers have become extremely slow. Talking 50k/s. > > Here's 'ifconfig -v eth0' output: > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:07:E9:xx:xx:xx > inet addr:192.xxx.x.xx Bcast:192.xxx.x.xxx Mask:255.255.255.0 > inet6 addr: xxxx::xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx/64 Scope:Link > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:322464 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:304204 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 > RX bytes:327465261 (312.2 Mb) TX bytes:253277737 (241.5 Mb) > Base address:0xd000 Memory:cff80000-cffa0000 > > Thought it might be samba, but scp file transfers are just as slow. And it's any host on the 10/100 segment, not just the NT box. > > I'm using the e1000 driver with the default parameter settings. > > Can anybody help? > Thanks, > Steve > -- > Steve Linabery > World Cycling Productions > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Thu Aug 19 13:48:36 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com> What's odd to me is that I get just fine throughput from/to hosts in our DMZ. The gateway is on the 10/100 segment. Things only get crappy when I try to talk to boxes (linux and windows) on the 10/100 segment. The gigabit box is on a DLink 8 port switch, which connects to a 24 port Trendnet box. Everything was ok 'til I went to fc2 from RH8. Under RH8 I was using an older version of e1000 driver. I'll try switching off autonegotiation. But I'm still stumpied. Here's my output from mii-tool. # /sbin/mii-tool -v eth0: negotiated 100baseTx-FD flow-control, link ok product info: vendor 00:50:43, model 2 rev 3 basic mode: autonegotiation enabled basic status: autonegotiation complete, link ok capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD advertising: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control link partner: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control thx s On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 01:23:09PM -0500, Clay Fandre wrote: > Is the duplexing set correctly? What type of switch is the system > connected to? Cisco? > > I've had problems with intel cards/cisco boxes not negotiating > correctly. If the system doesn't match the switch, you'll get terrible > performance. > > # /sbin/mii-tool -v > eth0: 100 Mbit, full duplex, link ok > product info: vendor 00:50:43, model 2 rev 3 > basic mode: 100 Mbit, full duplex > basic status: link ok > capabilities: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD > advertising: 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD > flow-control > > > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Steve Linabery wrote: > > > OK. I'm using an Intel NIC, according to lspci it is: Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82540EM Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 02) > > > > Using latest e1000 driver from Intel, from source. > > > > This host (fedora core 2) is on a gigabit segment on our LAN. Other (Mac OSX) hosts on this segment are not having the problem. > > > > An NT 4.0 box is on the 10/100 segment of the LAN. The fc2 host has smbmount-ed a directory on the NT machine. > > > > Here's the problem: file transfers between these two computers have become extremely slow. Talking 50k/s. > > > > Here's 'ifconfig -v eth0' output: > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:07:E9:xx:xx:xx > > inet addr:192.xxx.x.xx Bcast:192.xxx.x.xxx Mask:255.255.255.0 > > inet6 addr: xxxx::xxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxxx/64 Scope:Link > > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > > RX packets:322464 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > > TX packets:304204 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 > > RX bytes:327465261 (312.2 Mb) TX bytes:253277737 (241.5 Mb) > > Base address:0xd000 Memory:cff80000-cffa0000 > > > > Thought it might be samba, but scp file transfers are just as slow. And it's any host on the 10/100 segment, not just the NT box. > > > > I'm using the e1000 driver with the default parameter settings. > > > > Can anybody help? > > Thanks, > > Steve > > -- > > Steve Linabery > > World Cycling Productions > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- > Clay Fandre email: clay at fandre.com > PGP Key ID: 0x50DBBB60 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Thu Aug 19 14:55:00 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptop ethernet won't work Message-ID: <41250594.9000506@cpinternet.com> Got F2 (kernel 2.6.5-1.358) installed on my Presario 2100 and dual-booting well with the original XP (BootItNG did the trick for repartitioning the NTFS). But the modem doesn't work (Linuxant says they have a driver) and the ethernet card won't do anything. It's the built-in NatSemiconductor DP83815/816 10/100 MacPhyter PCI. It's eth0 and I've given it static IP of 192.168.0.11 and everything seems to be fine. During boot it comes up and the Network GUI reports it "ok" and "active". But the hub light is dead and no pinging gets through. Same ethernet works perfect when I boot to XP. One tell-tale thing is on shut down it reports "remaining active for wake-on-lan". Another odd thing is according to the GUI, it gives "unknown" as the IRQ address. XP says it's 11. Any ideas? Olwers _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Thu Aug 19 18:10:18 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptop ethernet won't work In-Reply-To: <41250594.9000506@cpinternet.com> References: <41250594.9000506@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <49541.12.47.38.130.1092957018.squirrel@12.47.38.130> Usually those IRQ's are set automatically at boot time; however, why not try giving it (manually setting) the IRQ to 11. Ideally, if you can get the correct driver for it, your troubles should go away. Normally, wake on LAN is nothing more than minimal power to the card. > Got F2 (kernel 2.6.5-1.358) installed on my Presario 2100 and > dual-booting well with the original XP (BootItNG did the trick for > repartitioning the NTFS). But the modem doesn't work (Linuxant says they > have a driver) and the ethernet card won't do anything. It's the > built-in NatSemiconductor DP83815/816 10/100 MacPhyter PCI. It's eth0 > and I've given it static IP of 192.168.0.11 and everything seems to be > fine. During boot it comes up and the Network GUI reports it "ok" and > "active". But the hub light is dead and no pinging gets through. Same > ethernet works perfect when I boot to XP. One tell-tale thing is on shut > down it reports "remaining active for wake-on-lan". Another odd thing is > according to the GUI, it gives "unknown" as the IRQ address. XP says > it's 11. Any ideas? > > Olwers > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Aug 19 19:23:00 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <1092961380.18734.9.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Thu Aug 19 19:35:20 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] laptop ethernet won't work In-Reply-To: <41250594.9000506@cpinternet.com> References: <41250594.9000506@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <1092962120.18734.20.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Aug 20 09:30:00 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com>; from slinabery@worldcycling.com on Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 01:48:36PM -0500 References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040820093000.B32056@thinkunix.net> Steve Linabery wrote: > What's odd to me is that I get just fine throughput from/to hosts in our DMZ. The gateway is on the 10/100 segment. Things only get crappy when I try to talk to boxes (linux and windows) on the 10/100 segment. > > The gigabit box is on a DLink 8 port switch, which connects to a 24 port Trendnet box. Everything was ok 'til I went to fc2 from RH8. Under RH8 I was using an older version of e1000 driver. Try a different switch in place of either the D-Link or the Trendnet. I have an 8 port (el-cheap-O) Linksys switch that has horrible performance with NFS but everything else (scp, samba, ftp, etc) works just fine. I also have a D-Link 8 port (model DSS-8+) what works fine though. Try using a crossover cable between the RH/F2 box and something on that 10/100 segement. Just temporarily re-ip the RH/F2 box and see if you still have the problem. Would prove your nics/drivers are ok. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Fri Aug 20 10:24:24 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <28152283.1093012977252.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <28152283.1093012977252.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> Traffic between nodes on the gigabit segment is fine, and traffic between other nodes (not problem host) and 10/100 segment is fine. So I don't think it's the switch. Have power-cycled and changed ports on the switch to no avail. No hardware has changed and this setup was flawless before system software change. Tried changing connection speed to 100Mbps. No improvement. Tried stock kernel from fc2 (not the latest), no effect. Wonder if recompiling the driver against previous kernel source would make a difference? Haven't tried vanilla kernel. Intel docs say that e1000 latest driver should work with 2.6 kernels (had to dig for this info). So Maybe that's next, although I'm always reluctant to goof with recompiling kernel...I don't know how to figure out exactly what fc2 distro expects to see in the kernel and I don't want to mess up any dependencies in the rpm database. There's at least one other person in the world with similar problem; there's a recent (10 Aug 04) bug posted on fc2's bugzilla. I'll append my problem to that bug report...the other guy is using an smp kernel and says *all* his net traffic is like 40kbps, which is not the case with mine...only seem to have trouble between my workstation and hosts on the 10/100 segment as I said. All signs point to kernel/driver incompatibility. Of course I am open to other brilliant interpretations of the problem that lead to its resolution. Thanks for all suggestions to date. With hair falling out and despair increasing, Steve On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 09:30:00AM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > Steve Linabery wrote: > > What's odd to me is that I get just fine throughput from/to hosts in our DMZ. The gateway is on the 10/100 segment. Things only get crappy when I try to talk to boxes (linux and windows) on the 10/100 segment. > > > > The gigabit box is on a DLink 8 port switch, which connects to a 24 port Trendnet box. Everything was ok 'til I went to fc2 from RH8. Under RH8 I was using an older version of e1000 driver. > > Try a different switch in place of either the D-Link or the Trendnet. I > have an 8 port (el-cheap-O) Linksys switch that has horrible performance > with NFS but everything else (scp, samba, ftp, etc) works just fine. > I also have a D-Link 8 port (model DSS-8+) what works fine though. > > Try using a crossover cable between the RH/F2 box and something on that > 10/100 segement. Just temporarily re-ip the RH/F2 box and see if you > still have the problem. Would prove your nics/drivers are ok. > -- > scot > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Fri Aug 20 10:35:51 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Vanilla kernel with FC2 Message-ID: <20040820153551.GC2230@steve.worldcycling.com> OK, somewhat pursuant to my other post about trouble with the e1000 driver for intel gigabit nic: I've always been reluctant to try to use a vanilla kernel with redhat distros (including fc2 in that category). I don't want to break parts of the distro that are depending on some strange tweak that rh people have contributed to the kernel. I mean, I know how to compile a kernel, but just don't want to cause more trouble than I cure. Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated as always. S -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Aug 20 10:52:36 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Vanilla kernel with FC2 In-Reply-To: <20040820153551.GC2230@steve.worldcycling.com>; from slinabery@worldcycling.com on Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 10:35:51AM -0500 References: <20040820153551.GC2230@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040820105235.A3037@thinkunix.net> Steve Linabery wrote: > OK, somewhat pursuant to my other post about trouble with the e1000 driver for intel gigabit nic: > > I've always been reluctant to try to use a vanilla kernel with redhat distros (including fc2 in that category). I don't want to break parts of the distro that are depending on some strange tweak that rh people have contributed to the kernel. > > I mean, I know how to compile a kernel, but just don't want to cause more trouble than I cure. > > Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated as always. How about rolling your own RPM?: 1. installing SRPM for kernel-source package, whatever RH provides as latest 2. cd /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES replace kernel-2.4.xx.tar.gz with latest from ftp.kernel.org 3. vi /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/kernel.spec (might have a different name but definitely a ".spec" file. You'll have to replace all occurances of the kernel version with your new version. Example: RH ships 2.4.20 lets say you want to use 2.4.27 from kernel.org in vi: :%s/2\.4\.20/2\.4\.27/g 4. rebuild the rpm: cd /usr/src/redhat/SPECS rpm -ba kernel.spec newer versions of RPM I believe use: rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec 5. Finished RPM will live in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386: cd /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386 rpm -i kernel-2.4.27.i386.rpm don't for get to run lilo or edit your grub.conf and reboot -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bgilbertson at stonel.com Fri Aug 20 10:59:55 2004 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <28152283.1093012977252.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <41261FFB.7030104@stonel.com> Have you tried running ethereal on another host of the segment to see if the traffic to/from the problem host gives any hints? Bob _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Fri Aug 20 11:34:18 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:47 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] intel 82540EM with e1000 driver sluggish on mixed net In-Reply-To: <7915882.1093018310084.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <28152283.1093012977252.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> <7915882.1093018310084.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040820163418.GA2065@steve.worldcycling.com> whew. Just got latest fc2 kernel update (2.6.8-1.521) and it's back to normal. thanks again. s On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 10:59:55AM -0500, Bob Gilbertson wrote: > Have you tried running ethereal on another host of the segment to > see if the traffic to/from the problem host gives any hints? > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From gkrueger at cleosci.com Fri Aug 20 11:43:36 2004 From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 & BIND In-Reply-To: <20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com> <28152283.1093012977252.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> <20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <3971.192.168.100.2.1093020216.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Here's a curiosity for you all... Has anyone noticed bizarre behavior from the combination of BIND 9 and FC2? A couple of weeks back, I installed FC2 on a test machine (actually a small 4 machine test network), and I set up BIND just like I've done many times in the past, only it doesn't work. If I request a status report on the service, I get the standard, "connection refused" message. Then about a week later, another guy in my group set up a separate test network with the same components, and he had trouble with BIND and FC2. He did a complete wipe-out, reinstall, but that time BIND worked fine with FC2. These were on Dell GX260 machines which use the embedded Intel nic. Anyway, has anyone else had any issues such as these? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Fri Aug 20 12:18:51 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 & BIND In-Reply-To: <3971.192.168.100.2.1093020216.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Message-ID: Were you using ndc or rndc? On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Garrett Krueger wrote: > Here's a curiosity for you all... > > Has anyone noticed bizarre behavior from the combination of BIND 9 and > FC2? A couple of weeks back, I installed FC2 on a test machine (actually > a small 4 machine test network), and I set up BIND just like I've done > many times in the past, only it doesn't work. If I request a status > report on the service, I get the standard, "connection refused" message. > > Then about a week later, another guy in my group set up a separate test > network with the same components, and he had trouble with BIND and FC2. > He did a complete wipe-out, reinstall, but that time BIND worked fine with > FC2. > > These were on Dell GX260 machines which use the embedded Intel nic. > > Anyway, has anyone else had any issues such as these? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Aug 20 14:48:34 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Vanilla kernel with FC2 In-Reply-To: <20040820105235.A3037@thinkunix.net> References: <20040820153551.GC2230@steve.worldcycling.com> <20040820105235.A3037@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040820194834.GE8171@momentum.poptix.net> On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 10:52:36AM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > > How about rolling your own RPM?: > > 2. cd /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES > replace kernel-2.4.xx.tar.gz with latest from ftp.kernel.org Unfortunately not all of the patches will apply cleanly at this point, some have different offsets, some have been accepted into the mainstream kernel, etc. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Fri Aug 20 17:20:06 2004 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare In-Reply-To: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com>; from john.t.hoffoss@gmail.com on Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 11:00:04AM -0500 References: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040820172006.B396@real-time.com> On 08/17 11:00 , John T. Hoffoss wrote: > A coworker is doing an assessment comparing groupware solutions for a > client. They're currently using straight-up SMTP + POP3 clients. > Exchange is an option, but these guys are a non-profit and pretty open > source-friendly, so they're looking for open solutions as well. I've > found what seem to be the big two, eGroupWare, and OpenGroupWare. I and some other people here at Real-Time evaluated OpenGroupware; and found it to be pretty vile. Lousy user interface, bad packaging, wasn't easy to set up, limited add-on modules (at least that were readily apparent), and the documentation was spotty at best. it appears that opengroupware is a crippled version of Skyrix; so it doesn't fully stand on its own, it's propped up by a commercial company. I've been trying phpgroupware for the last couple of days; and it's a world better. Easy to set up, easy to use, and offers a lot of functionality in add-on modules. I'm also told that it can directly interface with KDE desktop components via kioslaves; so the KDE calendar can read the phpgroupware calendar, etc. phprojekt looked interesting, and definitely has some good ideas. phpgrouware seems to have a lot more features and polish tho. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Fri Aug 20 17:33:30 2004 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <1092878118.9564.3818.camel@3po>; from hick0088@tc.umn.edu on Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 08:15:18PM -0500 References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> <1092878118.9564.3818.camel@3po> Message-ID: <20040820173330.C396@real-time.com> On 08/18 08:15 , Mike Hicks wrote: > RAIDZONE makes some specialized > Linux boxes that do that [http://www.raidzone.com/] though I'm sure > there's other stuff out there too. we had a Raidzone box here for a while; turned out to be crap. it's just an x86 dual-xeon with a proprietary disk array attached to it. Runs RedHat 7.1 + patches. (new kernel, etc.) their NFS implementation was crap; we had no end of trouble with it spontaneously failing to respond, throwing errors, etc. we sent their $10,000 box back; built one from spare parts that works perfectly so far, with eminently fewer problems. (almost none, in fact). Raidzone boxen are for companies that don't have a linux admin on hand. If you know enough to set up your own NFS server (and perhaps LVM); you're about on a par with their work. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Fri Aug 20 19:41:40 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Storage Solutions In-Reply-To: <20040820173330.C396@real-time.com> References: <4123755B.1030007@mn.rr.com> <1092878118.9564.3818.camel@3po> <20040820173330.C396@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1093048900.18343.27.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From baz at winternet.com Fri Aug 20 21:44:36 2004 From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 & BIND References: <20040819175240.GA4514@steve.worldcycling.com><17256534.1092940331722.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com><20040819184836.GE4514@steve.worldcycling.com><28152283.1093012977252.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com><20040820152424.GB2230@steve.worldcycling.com> <3971.192.168.100.2.1093020216.squirrel@192.168.100.2> Message-ID: <002101c48729$1d2a3210$7746f6cc@baztech.com> Are you using a different key for the local host for rndc than before? The keys have to match between /etc/named.conf and /etc/rndc.conf. If you issue the command # service named status that is effectively doing the same thing as # rndc status If you kept your named.conf from your old installation, you might have ended up with different keys for rndc. Rndc will use the default key in its own config file. Should match the one in named.conf Also check your "controls" statement in named.conf. Should allow localhost on port 953 with the configured rndc key. The DNS and BIND book, by Albitz and Liu, has a discussion of setting up rndc on pages 145 - 147. If you provide a few more details, I might be able to help you through this. Name service problems can be real hair-puller-outters. I sympathize. BRYAN ZIMMER ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrett Krueger" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 & BIND > Here's a curiosity for you all... > > Has anyone noticed bizarre behavior from the combination of BIND 9 and > FC2? A couple of weeks back, I installed FC2 on a test machine (actually > a small 4 machine test network), and I set up BIND just like I've done > many times in the past, only it doesn't work. If I request a status > report on the service, I get the standard, "connection refused" message. > > Then about a week later, another guy in my group set up a separate test > network with the same components, and he had trouble with BIND and FC2. > He did a complete wipe-out, reinstall, but that time BIND worked fine with > FC2. > > These were on Dell GX260 machines which use the embedded Intel nic. > > Anyway, has anyone else had any issues such as these? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lists at gahlon.com Fri Aug 20 23:41:32 2004 From: lists at gahlon.com (Christopher A. Gahlon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Vanilla kernel with FC2 In-Reply-To: <20040820153551.GC2230@steve.worldcycling.com> References: <20040820153551.GC2230@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <200408202341.32383.lists@gahlon.com> On Friday 20 August 2004 10:35, Steve Linabery wrote: > Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated as always. I've been using RH8 to FC1 all with "vanilla" kernels because I usually want something the distro kernel didn't have. USB, Better ACPI support etc... No serious problems to date. You get some complaints from the init scripts during boot if you compile in support instead of making modules but everything has worked. Actually I'd recommend compiling in support for your devices because sometimes the module names change slightly and the init scripts will still error and the module won't be loaded. It's easier than debugging the init scripts. Happy compiling! -- Christopher A. Gahlon There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clindholm at bigfoot.com Sat Aug 21 08:17:11 2004 From: clindholm at bigfoot.com (Carl Lindholm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP psc1210 printer Message-ID: <41274B57.2040406@bigfoot.com> Has anyone had success setting up an hp1210 all in one printer. I have the hp hijs driver installed ghostscript 7+ running on redhat 9 but as of yet have not been able to get the printer to work. I used to be in IT but guess what? you got it I am now an OO. :-) need to work somewhere. -- Carl Lindholm 206 Maryknoll Drive Stillwater,Mn 55082 (651) 439-8710 To fly one must throw them self at the ground really hard and miss. The ride is the objective, the destination the mere excuse. :>) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From smac at visi.com Sat Aug 21 10:13:51 2004 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] HP psc1210 printer In-Reply-To: <41274B57.2040406@bigfoot.com> References: <41274B57.2040406@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <412766AF.2090308@visi.com> I've never had luck with all in one printer, scanner, fax devices and Linux. But I've never really tried to hard. Try http://www.linuxprinting.org I remember something they had in a forum. Sam. Carl Lindholm wrote: > Has anyone had success setting up an hp1210 all in one printer. I have > the hp hijs driver installed ghostscript 7+ running on redhat 9 but as > of yet have not been able to get the printer to work. I used to be in > IT but guess what? you got it I am now an OO. :-) need to work somewhere. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andy at theasis.com Sat Aug 21 09:21:49 2004 From: andy at theasis.com (andy@theasis.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Two Pointing Devices (Mice) and not one working In-Reply-To: <12f.4927bcfd.2e5531da@aol.com> Message-ID: > I am making progress in installing Red Hat Linux 9.0 on my laptop. What kind of laptop? Generally, for help & examples related to your specific model, see http://www.linux-laptop.net/ > During the installation phase my Microsoft optical mouse (USB) worked > perfectly. BUT after the boot process occured, I neither had my You might have better luck with something newer than RH9. Fedora Core 2 (http://www.redhat.com/fedora/) seems to have much better configuration tools for things like USB hardware. Maybe try the install without the USB mouse, and hopefully the touchpad will just work. Then, after you get that verified (in X), try adding in the USB mouse. Actually, before doing that, I'd install apt and make sure all packages were updated (since, e.g., the kernel has changed 2x since the release of FC2). Good luck, Andy Scherrer _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Sat Aug 21 18:42:38 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pruning RPMus Bloaticus Message-ID: <20040821234238.GB11598@steve.worldcycling.com> So I'm thinking of pruning some branches from my RPM tree on my workstation at work. I use WindowMaker, mutt, firefox, emacs, sendmail, amanda. No evolution, occasional gimp. I'd like to make some room in /usr. OH, and FC2! That might be useful information. :) Just curious to know if anyone has any immediate thoughts about what could go without disrupting life too much for me. I thought this would be easier on the powersupply, less time consuming, and less wasteful than adding a new drive. Or maybe FC2 is just all essential stuff... Is there a way to display the RPM dependency graph, er, graphically? thanks steve -- Steve Linabery World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Sat Aug 21 21:14:37 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] pruning RPMus Bloaticus In-Reply-To: <20040821234238.GB11598@steve.worldcycling.com>; from slinabery@worldcycling.com on Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:42:38PM -0500 References: <20040821234238.GB11598@steve.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040821211437.A14292@thinkunix.net> Steve Linabery wrote: > So I'm thinking of pruning some branches from my RPM tree on my workstation at work. > > I use WindowMaker, mutt, firefox, emacs, sendmail, amanda. No evolution, occasional gimp. I'd like to make some room in /usr. > > OH, and FC2! That might be useful information. :) > > Just curious to know if anyone has any immediate thoughts about what could go without disrupting life too much for me. I thought this would be easier on the powersupply, less time consuming, and less wasteful than adding a new drive. > > Or maybe FC2 is just all essential stuff... > > Is there a way to display the RPM dependency graph, er, graphically? For past versions of RH I've used: rpm -e --test to see what might happen if I were to remove a package. You can also use: rpm -q --whatrequires to see what's using a given package. -- -scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clindholm at bigfoot.com Sun Aug 22 11:51:12 2004 From: clindholm at bigfoot.com (Carl Lindholm) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:48 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] multi function printer. hp1210 Message-ID: <4128CF00.10209@bigfoot.com> I have installed the hpijs driver but I still can't get this hp printer to print. I'm using redhat 9.0 and lpr. I have foomatic installed but I can't print a test page :-( Any suggestions. -- Carl Lindholm 206 Maryknoll Drive Stillwater,Mn 55082 (651) 439-8710 To fly one must throw them self at the ground really hard and miss. The ride is the objective, the destination the mere excuse. :>) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sun Aug 22 12:07:48 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X won't use video out on laptop Message-ID: <4128D2E4.1000701@cpinternet.com> I've got FC2 up and running on a Presario 2100 (dual booting orig. XP). I'm trying to use a separate CRT monitor through the video out. It works fine in XP, but only in non-X startup for FC2 does it report to the CRT. The regular LCD screen is fine, but why doesn't X want to see/deal with my monitor? Olwe _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sun Aug 22 13:02:20 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] X won't use video out on laptop In-Reply-To: <4128D2E4.1000701@cpinternet.com> References: <4128D2E4.1000701@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040822110273400ac5@mail.gmail.com> Well, perhaps obvious, but check your BIOS to see if you can play with the setting there. Else, you probably need to configure X to know a second monitor is there, because it doesn't just know how to deal with it. (Windows is very good with this sort of thing though.) Try creating a screen config in your XF86Config, change your XServer Layout and see if that second output will work alone. Check here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-laptop/2002/09/msg00449.html See here for much more info: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Xinerama-HOWTO/intro.html On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:07:48 -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > I've got FC2 up and running on a Presario 2100 (dual booting orig. XP). > I'm trying to use a separate CRT monitor through the video out. It works > fine in XP, but only in non-X startup for FC2 does it report to the CRT. > The regular LCD screen is fine, but why doesn't X want to see/deal with > my monitor? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Sun Aug 22 18:07:42 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Open GroupWare In-Reply-To: <20040820172006.B396@real-time.com> References: <914f813c04081709003a9456d2@mail.gmail.com> <20040820172006.B396@real-time.com> Message-ID: <16681.10046.45703.167971@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "CWS" == Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom writes: CWS> On 08/17 11:00 , John T. Hoffoss wrote: >> A coworker is doing an assessment comparing groupware solutions for a >> client. They're currently using straight-up SMTP + POP3 clients. >> Exchange is an option, but these guys are a non-profit and pretty open >> source-friendly, so they're looking for open solutions as well. I've >> found what seem to be the big two, eGroupWare, and OpenGroupWare. CWS> I and some other people here at Real-Time evaluated OpenGroupware; and found CWS> it to be pretty vile. Lousy user interface, bad packaging, wasn't easy to CWS> set up, limited add-on modules (at least that were readily apparent), and CWS> the documentation was spotty at best. it appears that opengroupware is a CWS> crippled version of Skyrix; so it doesn't fully stand on its own, it's CWS> propped up by a commercial company. CWS> I've been trying phpgroupware for the last couple of days; and it's a world CWS> better. Easy to set up, easy to use, and offers a lot of functionality in CWS> add-on modules. I'm also told that it can directly interface with KDE CWS> desktop components via kioslaves; so the KDE calendar can read the CWS> phpgroupware calendar, etc. CWS> phprojekt looked interesting, and definitely has some good ideas. CWS> phpgrouware seems to have a lot more features and polish tho. I know I said something about this before, but it's worth saying again: I recommend very strongly AGAINST phprojekt. It seems to be set up to fit a VERY HIERARCHICAL organization. I work at a much more fluid place, where we wanted our groupware to help us share information --- like have a good overview of what everybody's tasks were, etc., etc. I found myself over and over again going into phprojekt to break some information-hiding structure or other. It's been a while, but for example, I recall it was very hard to get the tasks to work right --- we wanted to be able to have people put tasks up to be done, have people accept them, etc. Nothing that seemed too odd. But you had to be the project leader to make almost any changes to the task objects, and so forth. It even seemed hard to simply mark a task as done, unless you were the right person! If phpgroupware is as good as Carl suggests, it's probably a lot better. I might add that it's a real conundrum to test out any one of these groupware set ups. We certainly found that until you had sunk a bunch of time into pushing data into them, you didn't find out there limitations. So somebody's quick article in a linux mag is often not very useful. Then, by the time you did find out limitations, it was often very late in the day. Wish I'd taken better notes on our problems, but by the time we backed out of PHProjekt, we were feeling that we'd already lost too much time on it... Having now worked with three of these beasts, I'd have to honestly say I wouldn't recommend any to anyone who wasn't willing to read a little PHP code. On the other hand, the good news is that PHP code is pretty simple, and even if you didn't know it before, it's easy to pick up enough to fix even pretty substantial bugs. The O'Reilly book Web Database Applications was quite hepful to me in doing this. Oh, that reminds me of one other thing about PHProjekt: the code and comments are written in a very Germany English. I have some rudimentary German, but still found it to be a handicap. another reason I'd recommend against it. Best, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From superbeast at evilcricket.com Mon Aug 23 12:33:36 2004 From: superbeast at evilcricket.com (superbeast) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint Message-ID: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> hello- i have an ibm thinkpad a30p. i am running SuSE 9.0 and i cannot get the trackpoint to work properly. if i boot the computer with no mouse, the trackpoint is enabled in the bios. when X starts, i can move the cursor, but it acts very erratic. it goes from one end of the screen to the other very quickly, and records button presses when i did not press any buttons, etc. one time while troubleshooting, i enabled (in the bios) the trackpoint at all times, even when a mouse was plugged in. when i booted, the mouse acted very erratic - same as above. but as soon as i disabled the trackpoint everything was fine. here is a clip from my XF86Config: Section "InputDevice" Driver "mouse" Identifier "Mouse[1]" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Option "Name" "Autodetection" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Vendor" "Sysp" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection and /dev/mouse points to /dev/psaux. i suspect this is a driver issue, but there are no specific trackpoing drivers for this laptop from ibm. any suggestions? kevin _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 12:50:06 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04082310501545d093@mail.gmail.com> There is a synaptics driver out there somewhere, but I have no experience with it. Perhaps you'd have some success there. I would also try setting: Option "Protocol" "PS/2" On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:33:36 -0500, superbeast wrote: > hello- > > i have an ibm thinkpad a30p. i am running SuSE 9.0 and i cannot get the > trackpoint to work properly. if i boot the computer with no mouse, the > trackpoint is enabled in the bios. when X starts, i can move the cursor, > but it acts very erratic. it goes from one end of the screen to the > other very quickly, and records button presses when i did not press any > buttons, etc. > > one time while troubleshooting, i enabled (in the bios) the trackpoint > at all times, even when a mouse was plugged in. when i booted, the mouse > acted very erratic - same as above. but as soon as i disabled the > trackpoint everything was fine. > > here is a clip from my XF86Config: > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "mouse" > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "Name" "Autodetection" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > and /dev/mouse points to /dev/psaux. > > i suspect this is a driver issue, but there are no specific trackpoing > drivers for this laptop from ibm. > > any suggestions? > > kevin > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Mon Aug 23 13:03:03 2004 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:33:36 -0500, superbeast wrote: > hello- > > i have an ibm thinkpad a30p. i am running SuSE 9.0 and i cannot get the > trackpoint to work properly. if i boot the computer with no mouse, the > trackpoint is enabled in the bios. when X starts, i can move the cursor, > but it acts very erratic. it goes from one end of the screen to the > other very quickly, and records button presses when i did not press any > buttons, etc. > > one time while troubleshooting, i enabled (in the bios) the trackpoint > at all times, even when a mouse was plugged in. when i booted, the mouse > acted very erratic - same as above. but as soon as i disabled the > trackpoint everything was fine. > > here is a clip from my XF86Config: > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "mouse" > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "Name" "Autodetection" Try: Option Protocol "GlidePointPS/2" > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > and /dev/mouse points to /dev/psaux. > > i suspect this is a driver issue, but there are no specific trackpoing > drivers for this laptop from ibm. > > any suggestions? > > kevin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rudie at rudie.net Mon Aug 23 12:23:10 2004 From: rudie at rudie.net (Kevin Hinze) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> Message-ID: <20040823122310.11372785.rudie@rudie.net> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:33:36 -0500 superbeast wrote: > hello- > > i have an ibm thinkpad a30p. i am running SuSE 9.0 and i cannot get > the trackpoint to work properly. if i boot the computer with no mouse, > the trackpoint is enabled in the bios. when X starts, i can move the > cursor, but it acts very erratic. it goes from one end of the screen > to the other very quickly, and records button presses when i did not > press any buttons, etc. > > here is a clip from my XF86Config: > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "mouse" > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "Name" "Autodetection" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > and /dev/mouse points to /dev/psaux. Looking at xorg.conf for my ThinkPad A31p, it shows the Protocol set to PS/2. If changing that doesn't help, try commenting out the "Name" "Autodetection" and trying both Protocols then. > kevin -- -Kevin Hinze rudie@rudie.net | rudie@sihope.com hinz0047@tc.umn.edu | http://rudie.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Mon Aug 23 13:12:30 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com>; from superbeast@evilcricket.com on Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 12:33:36PM -0500 References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> Message-ID: <20040823131230.A30790@thinkunix.net> superbeast wrote: > hello- > > i have an ibm thinkpad a30p. i am running SuSE 9.0 and i cannot get the > trackpoint to work properly. if i boot the computer with no mouse, the > trackpoint is enabled in the bios. when X starts, i can move the cursor, > but it acts very erratic. it goes from one end of the screen to the > other very quickly, and records button presses when i did not press any > buttons, etc. > > one time while troubleshooting, i enabled (in the bios) the trackpoint > at all times, even when a mouse was plugged in. when i booted, the mouse > acted very erratic - same as above. but as soon as i disabled the > trackpoint everything was fine. > > here is a clip from my XF86Config: > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "mouse" > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "Name" "Autodetection" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > and /dev/mouse points to /dev/psaux. > > i suspect this is a driver issue, but there are no specific trackpoing > drivers for this laptop from ibm. > > any suggestions? > kevin I run Debian on my Thinkpad but suspect the configuration would be similar. I use the mouse both in console mode and under X11. Here are the relevant configs: # /etc/gpm.conf device=/dev/psaux responsiveness= repeat_type=msc # <== "MouseSystems" type=fups2 # <== "broken ps/2" append="" sample_rate= ------------------------------- # snippet of /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/gpmdata" Option "Protocol" "MouseSystems" EndSection /dev/mouse is a symlink to /dev/gpmdata -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 13:42:04 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <914f813c04082310501545d093@mail.gmail.com> References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> <914f813c04082310501545d093@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040823114236e4d285@mail.gmail.com> Oh, I've also had success with: Option "Protocol" "auto" On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:50:06 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > There is a synaptics driver out there somewhere, but I have no > experience with it. Perhaps you'd have some success there. > > I would also try setting: Option "Protocol" "PS/2" > > > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:33:36 -0500, superbeast > wrote: > > hello- > > > > i have an ibm thinkpad a30p. i am running SuSE 9.0 and i cannot get the > > trackpoint to work properly. if i boot the computer with no mouse, the > > trackpoint is enabled in the bios. when X starts, i can move the cursor, > > but it acts very erratic. it goes from one end of the screen to the > > other very quickly, and records button presses when i did not press any > > buttons, etc. > > > > one time while troubleshooting, i enabled (in the bios) the trackpoint > > at all times, even when a mouse was plugged in. when i booted, the mouse > > acted very erratic - same as above. but as soon as i disabled the > > trackpoint everything was fine. > > > > here is a clip from my XF86Config: > > > > Section "InputDevice" > > Driver "mouse" > > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > > Option "Name" "Autodetection" > > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > > EndSection > > > > and /dev/mouse points to /dev/psaux. > > > > i suspect this is a driver issue, but there are no specific trackpoing > > drivers for this laptop from ibm. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From superbeast at evilcricket.com Mon Aug 23 14:19:20 2004 From: superbeast at evilcricket.com (superbeast) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> Message-ID: <1093288759.2441.4.camel@isis.deluxe.com> On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 12:33, superbeast wrote: > hello- > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "mouse" > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > Option "Name" "Autodetection" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > for those who are interested, when i changed the Protocol to PS/2 the trackpoint and the mouse both worked, but scrolling only worked with the trackpoint, not the wheel mouse. i changed the bios so the trackpoint only loaded when a mouse was NOT attached. i then changed Protocol to auto and everything works great now. i can't use both the mouse and the trackpoint at the same time, but who needs to? thanks for the help! kevin _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cschumann at twp-llc.com Mon Aug 23 14:34:49 2004 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:19:20 -0500 > From: superbeast > i changed the bios so the trackpoint only loaded when a mouse was NOT > attached. i then changed Protocol to auto and everything works great > now. i can't use both the mouse and the trackpoint at the same time, but > who needs to? Come to think of it, who needs to use a mouse when you've got a TrackPoint? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 17:05:42 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] thinkpad trackpoint In-Reply-To: <1093288759.2441.4.camel@isis.deluxe.com> References: <1093282415.2454.8.camel@isis.deluxe.com> <1093288759.2441.4.camel@isis.deluxe.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0408231505619cb755@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:19:20 -0500, superbeast wrote: > On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 12:33, superbeast wrote: > > hello- > > > > > Section "InputDevice" > > Driver "mouse" > > Identifier "Mouse[1]" > > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > > Option "Name" "Autodetection" > > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > > Option "Vendor" "Sysp" > > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > > EndSection > > > > for those who are interested, when i changed the Protocol to PS/2 the > trackpoint and the mouse both worked, but scrolling only worked with the > trackpoint, not the wheel mouse. Try setting Options "Buttons" 5 > i changed the bios so the trackpoint only loaded when a mouse was NOT > attached. i then changed Protocol to auto and everything works great > now. i can't use both the mouse and the trackpoint at the same time, but > who needs to? I posted to another thread late last week with my xf86config, which should let you use both (in fact, all three, assuming you have an IBM nipple as well as your trackpad.) If you're interested... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Aug 24 08:06:52 2004 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software Message-ID: Hi - Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where when a user is browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll launch a chat session with a tech or operator of the site. I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly fees, some without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via source forge (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably open-source. Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep of live help systems? Any recommendations? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 24 08:53:26 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:49 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail question Message-ID: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I've been finding that a lot of my procmail activity these days is up in the front, involved with handling my whitelist. The whitelist overrules the spamassassin markings. So the broad outline looks like this: # whitelist rules :0: ^From: $DEFAULT # spam filtering rules # old sorting stuff :0: ^Subject: One problem, if you look at the above, is that you'll see that all I knew how to do with the whitelist is stuff whitelisted entries into my main spool. But I'd rather be able to have these sorted out! I.e., I'd like them to pass into the "old sorting stuff." Do any of you have a solution for this? I can think of a couple of possibilities: 1. A non-delivering recipe that somehow sets the X-Spam-Flag header to "No". But I don't actually know how to do this. I understand that formail could be used to modify the message, but I've never done that in a non-delivering recipe. 2. Somehow set a global variable to indicate that I should skip the spam filtering block. I.e., modify the procmailrc to WHITELISTED=no # whitelist rules :0: * ^From: { WHITELISTED=yes # I don't actually know how to write a recipe that does nothing! } # spam filtering rules :0: * WHITELISTED ?? no :0: * WHITELISTED ?? no # old sorting stuff :0: ^Subject: 3. Set the X-Spam-Status to No, set something to avoid reprocessing the whitelist, and then invoke procmail recursively. Alas, although the procmailrc manpage hints at this --- "For really complicated processing you can even consider calling procmail recursively." --- I've never seen an example of how to do this. 4. Get out of the procmail box a little bit. Is there some alternative mail preprocessor that's good at whitelisting? One has to write a lot of boilerplate into the procmailrc file for every whitelist entry. Might be nicer to just have a filter that's specialized for whitelist matching, so I could just have a whitelst file that's a list of addresses, instead of a list of rules. Thanks! R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Tue Aug 24 09:24:34 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail question In-Reply-To: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040824142434.GC3333@aleph-one> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue Aug 24 09:37:39 2004 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail question In-Reply-To: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040824093739.A5677@pchelka.space.umn.edu> On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 08:53:26AM -0500, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote: > > I've been finding that a lot of my procmail activity these days is up > in the front, involved with handling my whitelist. The whitelist > overrules the spamassassin markings. So the broad outline looks like > this: > One problem, if you look at the above, is that you'll see that all I > knew how to do with the whitelist is stuff whitelisted entries into my > main spool. But I'd rather be able to have these sorted out! I.e., > I'd like them to pass into the "old sorting stuff." > > Do any of you have a solution for this? > > I can think of a couple of possibilities: > 2. Somehow set a global variable to indicate that I should skip the > spam filtering block. I.e., modify the procmailrc to This seems like the simplest choice. > WHITELISTED=no > # whitelist rules > :0: > * ^From: > { > WHITELISTED=yes > # I don't actually know how to write a recipe that does nothing! > } The above block looks correct - that's how I have defined variables in my procmail code. > # spam filtering rules > :0: > * WHITELISTED ?? no > > > :0: > * WHITELISTED ?? no > You should be able to combine the two items above, but either way your method seems right. 5. Spamassassin's own whitelist. I think that you could also solve your problem by tweaking spamassassin. Spamassassin has its own whitelist which would solve part of your problem (add "whitelist_from guy@test.com" lines to user_prefs). Then depending on the nature of your "vestigal rule-based spam processing," you would either be done because your rules are set up so that they don't catch messages from your whitelist, or you could try to merge these rules into spamassassin. Its fairly easy to add your own rules to spamassassin. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Tue Aug 24 10:19:57 2004 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c489ed$d0cce580$0200000a@theixian.lan> I was thinking about this a while back and though I never implemented anything I thought of using Mindterm which, upon login, would connect to an IRC server. Not really sure how hard that would be to implement, though it would seem to be trivial. --- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) > -----Original Message----- > From: johnnyfulcrum [mailto:johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:07 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software > > > Hi - > > Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where > when a user is > browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll > launch a chat > session with a tech or operator of the site. > > I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly > fees, some > without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via > source forge > (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). > > I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably > open-source. > Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep of > live help > systems? Any recommendations? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Aug 24 10:50:41 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412B63D1.9030601@redconcepts.net> johnnyfulcrum wrote: > Hi - > > Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where when a user > is browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll launch a > chat session with a tech or operator of the site. > > I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly fees, some > without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via source > forge (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). > > I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably > open-source. Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep > of live help systems? Any recommendations? cgiirc.sf.net it is basically an irc client with a cgi wrapper, you can restrict which channels, servers, commands and even nicks which people use. very customizable, -- Munir Nassar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From loren at lorenburlingame.com Tue Aug 24 10:40:18 2004 From: loren at lorenburlingame.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: <001a01c489ed$d0cce580$0200000a@theixian.lan> Message-ID: <002001c489f0$a90c52d0$0200000a@theixian.lan> googling around a tad brough up http://cgiirc.sourceforge.net/ very cool and would seem to be exactly what you are looking for. --- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) > -----Original Message----- > From: Loren H. Burlingame [mailto:loren@lorenburlingame.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:20 AM > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' > Subject: RE: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software > > > I was thinking about this a while back and though I never implemented > anything I thought of using Mindterm which, upon login, would > connect to > an IRC server. > > Not really sure how hard that would be to implement, though it would > seem to be trivial. > > --- > Loren H. Burlingame > GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F > "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." > -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: johnnyfulcrum [mailto:johnnyfulcrum@mn.rr.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:07 AM > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software > > > > > > Hi - > > > > Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where > > when a user is > > browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll > > launch a chat > > session with a tech or operator of the site. > > > > I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly > > fees, some > > without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via > > source forge > > (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). > > > > I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably > > open-source. > > Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep of > > live help > > systems? Any recommendations? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Aug 24 12:07:59 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail question In-Reply-To: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040824170759.GD13401@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com Tue Aug 24 12:38:23 2004 From: johnnyfulcrum at mn.rr.com (johnnyfulcrum) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: <412B63D1.9030601@redconcepts.net> References: <412B63D1.9030601@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:50:41 -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > johnnyfulcrum wrote: >> Hi - >> Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where when a >> user is browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll >> launch a chat session with a tech or operator of the site. >> I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly fees, >> some without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via >> source forge (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). >> I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably >> open-source. Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep >> of live help systems? Any recommendations? > > cgiirc.sf.net > > it is basically an irc client with a cgi wrapper, you can restrict which > channels, servers, commands and even nicks which people use. > > very customizable, Sweet cgi! But I am looking for a system a bit more dumbed down - on both ends. User on web clicks button to chat live with support/sales dude/whatever, and then Joe Blow tech operator sees a chat request from said Web surfer, answers the chat call and starts helping the surfer out. Joe Blow may have two or three chats going at once, but the end users only chat with Joe Blow and don't see other's chats. I have Road Runner Cable and they have a Live support chat - where you click and get connected to a tech support person. It seems as if you're chatting one on one with the person, but I bet they have multiple chats going at once and have some big "command queue" screen up... > > -- > Munir Nassar > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Aug 24 12:58:29 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail question In-Reply-To: <20040824170759.GD13401@wookimus.net> References: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040824170759.GD13401@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20040824175829.GE13401@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Aug 24 13:20:01 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:50 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? Message-ID: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> If anyone is interested in joining the gmail collective let me know. -- Munir Nassar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From behl0026 at umn.edu Tue Aug 24 15:50:47 2004 From: behl0026 at umn.edu (Ajay S. Behl) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> References: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <412BAA27.4020802@umn.edu> Hi Munir: I am very interested. Thanks! Best, Ajay Munir Nassar wrote: > If anyone is interested in joining the gmail collective let me know. > > -- > Munir Nassar > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > . > -- Ajay S. Behl 253 Classroom-Office Building 1994 Buford Avenue Dept. of Applied Economics University of Minnesota Saint Paul, MN 55108 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From likot at yahoo.com Tue Aug 24 16:24:07 2004 From: likot at yahoo.com (likot) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040824212407.5543.qmail@web13924.mail.yahoo.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 16:45:29 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <412BAA27.4020802@umn.edu> References: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> <412BAA27.4020802@umn.edu> Message-ID: <914f813c04082414455be4ad36@mail.gmail.com> I have one I'll offer up as well. John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Tue Aug 24 16:55:32 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412BB954.1090101@eworld3.net> I looked at http://cslh.com and it seems to be very close to what you want. What don't you like about it? I have never used it but it has a large user base. johnnyfulcrum wrote: > Hi - > > Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where when a user > is browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll launch a > chat session with a tech or operator of the site. > > I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly fees, some > without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via source > forge (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). > > I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably > open-source. Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep > of live help systems? Any recommendations? > -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Tue Aug 24 17:05:38 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] procmail question In-Reply-To: <20040824170759.GD13401@wookimus.net> References: <16683.18518.250989.23154@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20040824170759.GD13401@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <16683.48050.369506.876652@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions! Best, R _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Aug 24 16:52:26 2004 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? Message-ID: May I have that one please? >>> "John T. Hoffoss" 08/24/04 04:45PM >>> I have one I'll offer up as well. John _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Tue Aug 24 17:45:48 2004 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> References: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <412BC51C.9020005@bnac.biz> I'll take one. Hopefully one's still available.... Thanks! Keith Bachman Munir Nassar wrote: > If anyone is interested in joining the gmail collective let me know. > > -- > Munir Nassar > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From WordenCar at aol.com Tue Aug 24 17:32:54 2004 From: WordenCar at aol.com (WordenCar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mgetty and internal laptop modem Message-ID: <1a9.27de2c62.2e5d1c16@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Aug 24 18:00:43 2004 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Live chat software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040824230043.GL8171@momentum.poptix.net> http://www.phplivesupport.com/ http://www.groopz.com/ On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 08:06:52AM -0500, johnnyfulcrum wrote: > Hi - > > Been looking for some "live chat" software - the kind where when a user is > browsing your web site, they can click a button and it'll launch a chat > session with a tech or operator of the site. > > I found quite a few commercial packages - some with monthly fees, some > without and I also found Crafty Syntax's live help system via source forge > (http://www.craftysyntax.com/livehelp/?v=2.7). > > I need something that'll run on a linux box and preferably open-source. > Anyone have any experience with the admin/install/upkeep of live help > systems? Any recommendations? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Aug 24 17:59:09 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <412BC51C.9020005@bnac.biz> References: <412B86D1.5090906@redconcepts.net> <412BC51C.9020005@bnac.biz> Message-ID: <412BC83D.2080009@redconcepts.net> Keith Bachman wrote: > I'll take one. > > Hopefully one's still available.... > I'm all out. -- Munir Nassar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Tue Aug 24 22:29:34 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <914f813c04082414455be4ad36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kcbnac at bnac.biz Wed Aug 25 00:01:48 2004 From: kcbnac at bnac.biz (Keith Bachman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412C1D3C.3020505@bnac.biz> Sorry, I already touched John... Adam Maloney wrote: >If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > >That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > >I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Aug 25 09:39:22 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:52 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> Adam Maloney wrote: > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! -- Munir Nassar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at eworld3.net Wed Aug 25 11:19:04 2004 From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mgetty and internal laptop modem In-Reply-To: <1a9.27de2c62.2e5d1c16@aol.com> References: <1a9.27de2c62.2e5d1c16@aol.com> Message-ID: <412CBBF8.6080402@eworld3.net> Since this is your second post on the subject I will take a wack at it and if nothing else hopefully draw in someone with more knowledge. The first thing I would do is comment out your line in inittab and use the RH GUI tools to try and make the modem work to connect to AOL. I don't use RH so I can't tell you what to look for exactly but I would look through the menus for something that says PPP or networking or control panel or system configuration. You may have a WinModem but I think they are handled fairly well these days. When that works then I would add the inittab entry. WordenCar@aol.com wrote: > "s3:2345:respawn:/sbin/mgetty -x 4 ttyS2" in /etc/inittab and reboot, I After reading the inittab man page, I think the id should be s2, to match the tty. On my Mandrake 9.1 system there is no man page for mgetty but I do have agetty which seems like what you would want. I seem to remember that you are going to have someone logging into your system to do some system maintenance. I hope that you don't have to give them root access. Even if you trust them not to do anything bad intentionally, sometimes people do really bad things by accident. Oh, that sounds like fun a discussion thread! Just from reading the man page (and my meager knowledge) I'm guessing that this is what you want: /sbin/agetty -m -I 'ATZ' ttyS2 115200,19200,9600 You will need to add modem commands to set up the modem for receiving calls and maybe other things. I would start reading here: http://www.modem.com/glossary/glos10.html or http://www.modemhelp.org or http://www.modemhelp.net You may also want to read the agetty man page for other options. For testing/set up purposes I think you could use the '-L' option and connect the modem of this computer directly with the modem of another computer - just put a phone cable between the two computers. So putting together what I have been able to come up with: s2:2345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -m -I 'ATZ' ttyS2 115200,19200,9600 While the machine is booting I suggest crossing your fingers and clicking your heals together while wearing ruby slippers. ;-) -- Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Aug 25 11:39:59 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: > Adam Maloney wrote: > > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! > Lieben sie mein GMail! (I don't speak German, I think this was from an SNL skit) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From childers at physics.umn.edu Wed Aug 25 10:41:52 2004 From: childers at physics.umn.edu (J Taylor Childers III) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing RH9: Reboots after grub Message-ID: <412CB340.80202@physics.umn.edu> I am installing Redhat 9.0 on an 800MB Flash Disk (laptop drive). The computer (a Pentium) I want the OS installed on won't recognize any CD-ROM's I attach to it so I am installing the OS on another computer (a Celeron) and then transferring the disk to the Pentium Computer. After the grub screen appears I hit enter and then the computer reboots. I have also tried doing this with RH7.3 and RH7.0. RH7.0 will start the boot process, but after unpacking the kernel and detecting some of the hardware yields a kernel error that it couldn't mount the root file system. RH7.3 just stalls during the boot process without giving an error. I have also installed Windows 98 on the drive and put it in the Pentium computer (doing the install on the Celeron) and it booted just fine. I'm not sure if this indicates a hardware issue (flash drive) or a kernel issue since I am moving the kernel from one configuration (Celeron) to another (Pentium). Any Thoughts? Thanks, Taylor Childers University of Minnesota _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Wed Aug 25 12:56:18 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Installing RH9: Reboots after grub References: <412CB340.80202@physics.umn.edu> Message-ID: <006d01c48acc$d5363ec0$0201a8c0@office> Any chance you could just put a NIC into the Pentium system and do a network install? Maybe you can't, but if you can .. that makes all of your problems go away. You could just put all of the files out on another system and do the install. You may have thought of this already and it is not a choice, but I thought I would suggest the obvious first. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Taylor Childers III" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: [TCLUG] Installing RH9: Reboots after grub > I am installing Redhat 9.0 on an 800MB Flash Disk (laptop drive). The > computer (a Pentium) I want the OS installed on won't recognize any > CD-ROM's I attach to it so I am installing the OS on another computer (a > Celeron) and then transferring the disk to the Pentium Computer. After > the grub screen appears I hit enter and then the computer reboots. > > I have also tried doing this with RH7.3 and RH7.0. RH7.0 will start the > boot process, but after unpacking the kernel and detecting some of the > hardware yields a kernel error that it couldn't mount the root file > system. RH7.3 just stalls during the boot process without giving an > error. I have also installed Windows 98 on the drive and put it in the > Pentium computer (doing the install on the Celeron) and it booted just > fine. I'm not sure if this indicates a hardware issue (flash drive) or a > kernel issue since I am moving the kernel from one configuration > (Celeron) to another (Pentium). > > Any Thoughts? > > Thanks, > Taylor Childers > University of Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Aug 25 12:50:16 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] mgetty and internal laptop modem In-Reply-To: <412CBBF8.6080402@eworld3.net> References: <1a9.27de2c62.2e5d1c16@aol.com> <412CBBF8.6080402@eworld3.net> Message-ID: <20040825175016.GE3935@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 14:05:56 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67f3084a04082512053f31cdab@mail.gmail.com> I've got a few invites I can give out as well. No touching required either. Don't wanna freak anyone out.... On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:39:59 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > > > > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > > > > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > > > i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! > > > > Lieben sie mein GMail! > > (I don't speak German, I think this was from an SNL skit) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Wed Aug 25 14:17:23 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Aug 25 14:45:53 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: Well, I don't use it for real e-mail. I haven't given out the address, and I don't check it regularly. The only reason I got an account was because I wanted to see what Google was up to. After using it, I can confirm that Google appears to have done webmail "right" There are so many little details, it's hard to remember specific ones. But just using it, it "felt" so much better than Hotmail or Yahoo ever did. For example: The interface is very lightweight, but is still visually aesthetic and very functional. Lots of other interface niceties that make e-mail navigation "smooth" I don't know how else to describe it. I have to use Outhouse at work, and it's like a train-wreck for e-mail. Using the GMail interface for mail is far better than any other webmail system I've used, and is probably even better than anything to come out of Washington (excepting PINE...) Now I know how to describe it - expected behavior. For the most part, the interface works like you would expect it to, without having to read documentation and such. They discourage deleting anything. Hotmail and Yahoo, I imagine is a mad-rush to delete anything not important before you reach your max space. I have working code to uuencode a file, chunk it into 9.9MB blocks, tag the subject with file identification, and e-mail it to my gmail account. The reverse is not yet working. While completely useless as-is, I can conceive of someone creating a very large and robust file-store using GMail accounts. Or P2P software. Or god-knows what else. GMail didn't even blink when I sent a 400MB file, chunked into 40 messages. They encourage moving inactive messages from the Inbox into an Archive folder, rather than creating a folder hierarchy and (either manually or automatically) sorting messages into folders. This is completely backwards from what most people are used to, but it works well. The e-mail search function is convenient (unlike Outlook, where it's 3 clicks away), powerful (unlike Outlook where you have to go through hoops to define exactly which fields to search for what), and accurate (unlike Outlook, where, well, okay I can't think of anything, but I'm sure Outlook screws this up somehow...) If Outlook didn't choke on large folders, and had a more convenient search capability, I would seriously consider moving to this 2-folder system. This is how my dad wants to use e-mail (he just doesn't realize it). He has 1000's of messages in his Inbox - no folders. This is fine for searching and sorting, but IMHO was awful with all of the clutter of 3+ year old messages in his Inbox. The archive folder is actually a pretty good system. More on the interface - most people have heard about the ads. Just like the ads in their search results, they are non-intrusive and barely noticable. In fact, I was on vacation when Google moved to their right-side text ad system, and I didn't even notice the change when I got back, I can confirm that I DID NOT feel a disturbance in the force. It wasn't until I read about it on /. that I realized they were there. Same with gmail. (Not a Star-Wars Weenie) Adam On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Dan Drake wrote: [NON-Text Body part not included] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 14:55:19 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: <67f3084a04082512553b274f9c@mail.gmail.com> Well, for myself. I use it as my primary e-mail now. I tried setting up Postfix or Sendmail, but dropped it due to lack of time and frustration (still need to get it done however). It sure beats the 5MB limit set by Netscape, Hotmail or many others. Gmail is okay, but at times, the threading of it can get rather daunting. Although, I'd gladly go back to using Pine, Elm, or even Mutt once I get my mail server setup. On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:17:23 -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > I have a question about gmail: what's so great about it? > > I'm pretty sure many of us here store email on our computer at home and ssh > to it to read email -- so I have many, many gigabytes of email storage. I > use mutt, which does threading, and there are programs like grepmail that > search through email very effectively. Lots of small, efficient programs > that work together...very Unixy. > > Gmail seems like any other webmail system. For those of you who use it, > why? I'm just curious why it is such a big deal. > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 15:37:45 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites used up Message-ID: <67f3084a04082513377e6a6f90@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, their all gone. I'll post up when I have some more again. -- -Shawn "That which hits the fan, will not be evenly distributed." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 16:05:02 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:53 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <67f3084a04082512053f31cdab@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a04082512053f31cdab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c040825140522b819a6@mail.gmail.com> I've just sent three out to LUGgers; I've got two more. First to reply to me directly can have them. John On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:56 -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I've got a few invites I can give out as well. > > No touching required either. Don't wanna freak anyone out.... > > > > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:39:59 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > > > > > > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > > > > > > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > > > > > i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! > > > > > > > Lieben sie mein GMail! > > > > (I don't speak German, I think this was from an SNL skit) > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Wed Aug 25 16:16:43 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? Message-ID: I'd like one. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: John T. Hoffoss [mailto:john.t.hoffoss@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:05 PM To: Shawn Fertch; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? I've just sent three out to LUGgers; I've got two more. First to reply to me directly can have them. John On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:56 -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I've got a few invites I can give out as well. > > No touching required either. Don't wanna freak anyone out.... > > > > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:39:59 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > > > > > > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > > > > > > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > > > > > i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! > > > > > > > Lieben sie mein GMail! > > > > (I don't speak German, I think this was from an SNL skit) > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 16:28:00 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? In-Reply-To: <914f813c040825140522b819a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a04082512053f31cdab@mail.gmail.com> <914f813c040825140522b819a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0408251428399dc571@mail.gmail.com> All sent out On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:05:02 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote: > I've just sent three out to LUGgers; I've got two more. First to reply > to me directly can have them. > > John > > > > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:56 -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > I've got a few invites I can give out as well. > > > > No touching required either. Don't wanna freak anyone out.... > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:39:59 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > > > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > > > > > > > > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > > > > > > > > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > > > > > > > i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! > > > > > > > > > > Lieben sie mein GMail! > > > > > > (I don't speak German, I think this was from an SNL skit) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > John T. Hoffoss > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 17:03:11 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: Well, I've only been using if for a couple days, but I subscribed my gmail account to some of the most annoying e-mail lists I could think of: tclug and samba. I setup a couple quick subject based filters, and slick. To read tclug messages, I just click my tclug-list filter. Same with samba. GMail does a pretty decent job of keeping threads together. I clicked your message, and it was that simple to read the entire conversation. So simple I didn't realized just how great it was until I was at the end of the thread, and I thought to myself... Hey, I only clicked like...2 links and I read an entire tclug discussion. In SquirrelMail I open each message in a netscape tab, in pine I have select each message and what not, same with Outlook and other mail clients... And searching is powered by google...I think I'll try one of the upload scripts and toss all my archived tclug mail into GMail for kicks... If you get a chance to try GMail, I highly recommend trying it out on high volume mailing lists. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 17:49:05 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: <914f813c04082515496608b48c@mail.gmail.com> A word of warning with this, I've seen the odd TCLUG message get flagged as spam. Reply behavior seems a bit inconsistent as well, but that may have to do with individual settings. (example: hitting reply to this message but both Andy and TCLUG in the TO: field where normally it will only reply to TCLUG...and upon looking, it appears to be a result of Andy's reply-to setting...) John On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:03:11 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > Well, I've only been using if for a couple days, but I subscribed my > gmail account to some of the most annoying e-mail lists I could think > of: tclug and samba. I setup a couple quick subject based filters, and > slick. > > To read tclug messages, I just click my tclug-list filter. Same with > samba. GMail does a pretty decent job of keeping threads together. I > clicked your message, and it was that simple to read the entire > conversation. So simple I didn't realized just how great it was until > I was at the end of the thread, and I thought to myself... > > Hey, I only clicked like...2 links and I read an entire tclug > discussion. In SquirrelMail I open each message in a netscape tab, in > pine I have select each message and what not, same with Outlook and > other mail clients... > > And searching is powered by google...I think I'll try one of the > upload scripts and toss all my archived tclug mail into GMail for > kicks... > > If you get a chance to try GMail, I highly recommend trying it out on > high volume mailing lists. > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > A password is like your underwear; Change it > frequently, don't share it with others, and > don't ask to borrow someone else's. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Wed Aug 25 18:14:58 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? In-Reply-To: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: <412D1D72.7050705@redconcepts.net> Dan Drake wrote: > I have a question about gmail: what's so great about it? i think this answered the question quite nicely :) http://www.ok-cancel.com/archives/week_2004_05_14.html -- Munir Nassar _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 18:16:06 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: <853e1ecc0408251616272dc4b1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:17:23 -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > I'm pretty sure many of us here store email on our computer at home and ssh > to it to read email -- so I have many, many gigabytes of email storage. I > use mutt, which does threading, and there are programs like grepmail that > search through email very effectively. Lots of small, efficient programs > that work together...very Unixy. If you really like mutt and always have access to it, then Gmail isn't for you. But if you use GUI email clients like Outlook, Thunderbird, etc., or worse, a user of traditional webmail like Yahoo!, Hotmail, SquirrelMail, then you will almost certainly like Gmail better. > Gmail seems like any other webmail system. For those of you who use it, > why? I'm just curious why it is such a big deal. http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/benefits.html http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/screen1.html http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/screen2.html In addition to what Adam Maloney said, Gmail is FAST. You might not notice it if you only test Gmail by reading a couple of messages, but once you start using Gmail it will be very apparent how much faster it is than all other webmail. It's a perfect example of Javascript / DHTML done correctly. And before you start saying, "ick Javascript", try it out. On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:45:53 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > Lots of other interface niceties that make e-mail navigation "smooth" I > don't know how else to describe it. I have to use Outhouse at work, and > it's like a train-wreck for e-mail. I agree 100%. After using Outlook Express for five years for my personal mail, I switched to Gmail after trying it for less than a week. > While completely useless as-is, I can > conceive of someone creating a very large and robust file-store using > GMail accounts Perhaps in the future Google will offer a direct file storage service, similar to .Mac's iDisk. > They encourage moving inactive messages from the Inbox into an Archive > folder, rather than creating a folder hierarchy and (either manually or > automatically) sorting messages into folders. This is completely > backwards from what most people are used to, but it works well. You're missing a huge feature of Gmail: labels. Instead of placing a message into a single folder (effectively assigning it a single label), you assign multiple labels to a message. The list of labels is displayed similar to how traditional email clients display folders. You can click on a label to view all messages with that label. You lose the hierarchy of folders with labels, but it's completely unnecessary. Think of labels as meta folders: messages can effectively be in multiple "folders". > The archive folder is actually a pretty good system. The "All Mail" folder isn't actually a folder at all. It simply displays a list of all messages that don't have a Spam or Trash label. There is only one real "folder" in Gmail. Labels are used for everything in Gmail. Starred messages simply have a Starred label. You can create labels called Read and Unread to display all messages with those properties, too. > More on the interface - most people have heard about the ads. Just like > the ads in their search results, they are non-intrusive and barely > noticable. It's very cool, because it adds both ads and search results. It's very funny to see a newbie ask a question on a mailing list and then see the answer right there in the search results. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nate at refried.org Wed Aug 25 19:55:57 2004 From: nate at refried.org (nate@refried.org) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? In-Reply-To: <412D1D72.7050705@redconcepts.net> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> <412D1D72.7050705@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <20040826005557.GA23691@refried.org> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 06:14:58PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > Dan Drake wrote: > >I have a question about gmail: what's so great about it? > > i think this answered the question quite nicely :) > http://www.ok-cancel.com/archives/week_2004_05_14.html Uh oh. I think you showed me a web comic I'll have to read every day. Nate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed Aug 25 19:50:48 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > of: tclug and samba. I setup a couple quick subject based filters, and > slick. *From*adam@whee.org* Move to: Trash _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From slinabery at worldcycling.com Wed Aug 25 23:17:24 2004 From: slinabery at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <22243239.1093471555388.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> <22243239.1093471555388.JavaMail.root@mail.worldcycling.com> Message-ID: <20040826041724.GB5516@steve.worldcycling.com> > Hey, I only clicked like...2 links and I read an entire tclug > discussion. In SquirrelMail I open each message in a netscape tab, in > pine I have select each message and what not, same with Outlook and > other mail clients... Hey, I didn't even *touch* my mouse and read this discussion using mutt. But I don't really care to touch that thing except when I have to. Any place I can ssh from, I can read my mail. I've become somewhat insanely devoted to mutt & procmail of late. Maybe it's the thousands of messages I have to sort every day. And that I have to do something with them after I've sorted them (like training spamassassin). How easy is it to retrieve messages en masse from gmail? -- Steve Linabery, sysadmin/developer World Cycling Productions _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Thu Aug 26 02:34:24 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites used up In-Reply-To: <67f3084a04082513377e6a6f90@mail.gmail.com> References: <67f3084a04082513377e6a6f90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <412D9280.8080500@comcast.net> Shawn Fertch wrote: >Sorry, their all gone. I'll post up when I have some more again. > > I have an invite. Email adamshrode@gmail.com if you're still clueless to the whole gmail thing. - as - _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 26 09:14:24 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> Message-ID: <20040826091424.0000192f@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:17:23 -0500 Dan Drake wrote: > I have a question about gmail: what's so great about it? Interesting timing, I just received an invite this morning. My initial opinions: 1.) nice interface, someone else mentioned this too. Webmail should be simple, I think my inlaws could even handle this. It also seems very quick (someone else mentioned client-side javascript). What I'm curious about is how well "alternate" browsers handle it. I currently use Horde/Imp for webmail (which is very slick) after using SquirrelMail for years. I can say though that this is one of the best. 2.) Conversation/threaded email is great for stuff like TCLUG. Not that this is a new invention, I get it with my current favorite MUA Sylpheed, but I think this is the first webmail client I've seen do threaded email "right" if at all. Someone mentioned annoying ML's like TCLUG (disagree on TCLUG's annoyance) and Samba (indeed very annoying). I think I'm going to subscribe my two favorite annoying mailing lists to my gmail account - Spamassassin and MySQL (extremely annoying). It'll be interesting to see if Spam related email in the Spamassassin ML is tagged as SPAM. 3.) Speaking of which, I'm not too excited about how gmail appears to handle SPAM. Doesn't seem like you can customize it too much. Then again I haven't been using it for very long (only an hour) so maybe I'm missing something? 4.) gmail blocks executables for anti-virus. This may be a good or bad thing depending on your needs. 5.) This morning the system was very slow and I received a message to check back in a few minutes. Hopefully it's only because the system is still in beta. 6.) You can run over SSL using https://gmail.google.com/ 7.) The Gmail-Notifyer program is only available on Windohs. My final thoughts? I don't know, it seems nice, but I also just have a weird and perhaps unjustified distrust of google. So I think I might use gmail for some high-volume mailing list traffic, but I like having control of my own email system where I can control every aspect of how my email works. I get threading using Sylpheed (though the Winders version is occasionally flaky), sophisticated searching using dbmail and my server suports ssl/smtpauth. What would be hella-cool would be if the gmail interface was open-sourced, but I highly doubt that. Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Thu Aug 26 09:32:26 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites Message-ID: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> This Gmail thing is replicating like a virus. I signed up yesterday, used it a little, and now I have three invites to give away. Let me know if you want one. -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 --- The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible. -- Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan at dandrake.org Thu Aug 26 09:30:00 2004 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:54 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <853e1ecc0408251616272dc4b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> <853e1ecc0408251616272dc4b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040826143000.GA3280@aleph-one> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Thu Aug 26 10:29:47 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] what's so great about gmail? (was: Gmail invites anyone?) In-Reply-To: <20040826143000.GA3280@aleph-one> References: <412CA49A.5040504@redconcepts.net> <20040825191723.GC3513@aleph-one> <853e1ecc0408251616272dc4b1@mail.gmail.com> <20040826143000.GA3280@aleph-one> Message-ID: <20040826152946.GA9344@botwerks.org> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Fangio101 at neandertech.com Thu Aug 26 12:18:55 2004 From: Fangio101 at neandertech.com (fangio101) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Gmail Invites--If any are left... In-Reply-To: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <20040826171855.16193.qmail@stonewebs.com> I would like to give it a try... if not, maybe someone will save me one later. Thanks, Larry Rees Fangio101@neandertech.com James Kaufman writes: > This Gmail thing is replicating like a virus. I signed up yesterday, used it a > little, and now I have three invites to give away. > > Let me know if you want one. > > -- > Jim Kaufman > Linux Evangelist > public key 0x6D802619 > --- > The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible. > -- Albert Einstein > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pclinux at charter.net Thu Aug 26 12:24:45 2004 From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826121430.01bf9bc8@pop.charter.net> I've been cleaning several machines very successfully in the last weeks. I now have one that is stumping me. Both PestScan & Norton 04AV (Hard to believe!) are showing files in Windows\Downloaded Program Files. These were not detected by SpyBot or AdAware. I don't see any listing in my Hijack This log either. This is the directory that contains the active X controls. There appear to be no such files, hidden or otherwise. I deleted everything just for fun, but both programs still show files present. Using Search for the specific files shows nothing anywhere on the drive. Any suggestions? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Aug 26 13:47:43 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options Message-ID: <006501c48b9d$2e667750$0201a8c0@office> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Thu Aug 26 13:48:59 2004 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Gmail Invites--If any are left... In-Reply-To: <20040826171855.16193.qmail@stonewebs.com> References: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040826171855.16193.qmail@stonewebs.com> Message-ID: <20040826184859.GD4647@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> > James Kaufman writes: > > >This Gmail thing is replicating like a virus. I signed up yesterday, used > >it a > >little, and now I have three invites to give away. > > > >Let me know if you want one. > > You can all stop asking for a Gmail invite. They went faster than free Southern Comfort at a Jeff Foxworthy picnic. (Insert your own homily here. I don't feel that creative right now.) -- Jim Kaufman Linux Evangelist public key 0x6D802619 --- "I think he said 'Blessed are the cheesemakers.'" "Nonsense, he was obviously referring to all manufacturers of dairy products." -- two people in the crowd in "The Life of Brian" _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 13:46:22 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826121430.01bf9bc8@pop.charter.net> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826121430.01bf9bc8@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <67f3084a0408261146458d602a@mail.gmail.com> Drop the box into safemode with networking and then do an upgrade to the AV program. Also, download Lavasoft's Adaware. I had to fight a spyware issue on my in-laws computer. Quick rundown of steps taken: -Reboot into networked safe mode. Upgrade AV program. -download and install Lavasoft's adaware -reboot into safe mode (non-networked) and do full AV scan/clean -reboot into safe mode again -Run Adaware and fix/delete everything it lists -reboot and should be okay I've found that PestScan and Spybot are completely worthless. On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:24:45 -0500, Carl Zeilon wrote: > I've been cleaning several machines very successfully in the last weeks. I > now have one that is stumping me. Both PestScan & Norton 04AV (Hard to > believe!) are showing files in Windows\Downloaded Program Files. These > were not detected by SpyBot or AdAware. I don't see any listing in my > Hijack This log either. This is the directory that contains the active X > controls. There appear to be no such files, hidden or otherwise. I > deleted everything just for fun, but both programs still show files > present. Using Search for the specific files shows nothing anywhere on the > drive. Any suggestions? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Thu Aug 26 13:57:26 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options In-Reply-To: <006501c48b9d$2e667750$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: If by regular lines you mean POTS lines, like regular, analog telephone lines, then he won't be able to offer 56k or ISDN service. This may be more of an issue for the PUC than the FCC - those rates are supposed to be tarriffed, so the telco is supposed to get approval for rate increases on basic services. And if he is in a rural area, maybe just him and the telco offering ISP services, there is a very strong case with the PUC about the phone company trying to ice him out. Fun to watch. Is your friend in MN? If so, what area? I've run ISP dial services in 3 different calling areas in MN, so I've dealt with a lot of the smaller carriers in more rural areas. Maybe there's a better option. On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Randy Clarksean wrote: [NON-Text Body part not included] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Aug 26 14:26:09 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options References: Message-ID: <007d01c48ba2$8cdfb350$0201a8c0@office> I am not sure if they are called POTS lines or not ... it would just be the regular phone line you get for your home or office. Dial up in this area .. in rural areas is typically limited to 40-45K - or less - based on the connection, distance from central stations, etc. He is looking into adding the compression feature that many ISPs are offering .. not sure if that would help him with the analog line issue or not. He does not offer ISDN .. but he does offer a high speed wireless option instead ... he has done a very nice job with that and the local telco has dropped their DSL prices a lot as a result of the competition. His true niche is customer service ... that is why he is snatching away customers from the local telco that has their own ISP. It is a rural area ... west central Minnesota ... and there is only one local telephone company. But, other ISPs are available as one can make a local call to another area with a different telco / ISP. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Maloney" To: "Randy Clarksean" ; "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options > If by regular lines you mean POTS lines, like regular, analog telephone > lines, then he won't be able to offer 56k or ISDN service. > > This may be more of an issue for the PUC than the FCC - those rates are > supposed to be tarriffed, so the telco is supposed to get approval for > rate increases on basic services. > > And if he is in a rural area, maybe just him and the telco offering ISP > services, there is a very strong case with the PUC about the phone company > trying to ice him out. Fun to watch. > > Is your friend in MN? If so, what area? I've run ISP dial services in 3 > different calling areas in MN, so I've dealt with a lot of the smaller > carriers in more rural areas. Maybe there's a better option. > > On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > > [NON-Text Body part not included] > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Thu Aug 26 14:25:46 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options In-Reply-To: <007d01c48ba2$8cdfb350$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: > I am not sure if they are called POTS lines or not ... it would just be the > regular phone line you get for your home or office. Dial up in this area .. Yes, those are POTS. > in rural areas is typically limited to 40-45K - or less - based on the > connection, distance from central stations, etc. He is looking into adding > the compression feature that many ISPs are offering .. not sure if that > would help him with the analog line issue or not. He needs to have digital lines (BRI's, PRI's, or CT-1's) to offer anything more than 33.6 connections. The compression feature - v92 - will only work with digital lines as well. > It is a rural area ... west central Minnesota ... and there is only one > local telephone company. But, other ISPs are available as one can make a > local call to another area with a different telco / ISP. I think his options are: 1) Fight the battle with the regulating bodies 2) Investigate the cost of backhauling his dial-in lines from another LEC (This might only offer a cost-savings or break-even point if he has a lot of lines) 3) Check into reselling - Ikano is a popular choice now that PSI is gone. They were reasonably priced when I looked at them 4) I forgot. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From DaveSh at porous.com Wed Aug 25 14:52:40 2004 From: DaveSh at porous.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? Message-ID: <4C1BA8610A772F4DA163589F92E6643C01F266D5@mail.porous.com> I think I'd like one. Dave Sherman - Information Systems MCSE, MCSA, CCNA davesh@porous.com POROUS MEDIA 1350 Hammond Road St. Paul, MN 55110 Phone - 651-653-2000 FAX - 651-653-2230 The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended exclusively for the use of the addressee listed above. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible to deliver this transmission to the intended recipient, please do not use this transmission, and contact the sender by telephone or e-mail. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Shawn Fertch Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:06 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Gmail invites anyone? I've got a few invites I can give out as well. No touching required either. Don't wanna freak anyone out.... On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:39:59 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > Adam Maloney wrote: > > > If I get any invites I'll pony up a couple for the list. > > > > > > That's right, I have gmail. Now who wants to touch me? > > > > > > I SAID WHO WANTS TO TOUCH ME?! > > > > i think i say for all of us when i say: EW! > > > > Lieben sie mein GMail! > > (I don't speak German, I think this was from an SNL skit) > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Aug 26 14:46:01 2004 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:55 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options References: Message-ID: <009901c48ba5$53a678a0$0201a8c0@office> I could be incorrectly naming the types of lines he has ... I am not sure what he has for sure. I am pretty sure he has v.92 capabilities though. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Maloney" To: "Randy Clarksean" Cc: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options > > I am not sure if they are called POTS lines or not ... it would just be the > > regular phone line you get for your home or office. Dial up in this area .. > > Yes, those are POTS. > > > in rural areas is typically limited to 40-45K - or less - based on the > > connection, distance from central stations, etc. He is looking into adding > > the compression feature that many ISPs are offering .. not sure if that > > would help him with the analog line issue or not. > > He needs to have digital lines (BRI's, PRI's, or CT-1's) to offer anything > more than 33.6 connections. The compression feature - v92 - will only > work with digital lines as well. > > > It is a rural area ... west central Minnesota ... and there is only one > > local telephone company. But, other ISPs are available as one can make a > > local call to another area with a different telco / ISP. > > I think his options are: > > 1) Fight the battle with the regulating bodies > 2) Investigate the cost of backhauling his dial-in lines from another LEC > (This might only offer a cost-savings or break-even point if he has a lot > of lines) > 3) Check into reselling - Ikano is a popular choice now that PSI is gone. > They were reasonably priced when I looked at them > 4) I forgot. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jimstreit at northlans.com Thu Aug 26 15:00:23 2004 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: ISP Dialup hardware / options In-Reply-To: <006501c48b9d$2e667750$0201a8c0@office> References: <006501c48b9d$2e667750$0201a8c0@office> Message-ID: <1093550423.412e4157de055@webmail.northlans.com> Randy, can you help with a little more information. Can he use a different carrier, if not, his options could be rather limited? I thought the FCC had some control over the costs of services that providers can charge, especially when only one carrier is in a market. It prevents them from naming their price and forcing others to pay. He should also check with others in the area to see if their prices are going up as well or if its just him, he may have a good legal case. What type of a connection is he using today? If he is using T1's and is looking to switch to a bunch of 1FB's that roll-over is he going to have to change out a bunch of equipment? - I currently pay a little over $500 per T1 currently / 24 channels means that I pay about $20 per line using a T1 - He will want to stay with a T1 digital type of service to keep customer connection speeds above 33.6K When you say 100+ lines, do you mean 100+ phone numbers or are you really needing 100+ (POTS) individual lines? I know that you can have regular POTS lines roll-over to another line when they are busy, it costs me $3 / per month / per line for that feature. Jim Quoting Randy Clarksean : > > A buddy of mine runs a local ISP. His cost for DID phone lines has gone > through the roof ... from $21 to $57 ... plus they are going up more here > shortly. It is clearly affecting his profitability .. basically the local > telco is pressuring him anyway they can ... to get him to sell or go out of > business. > > Question: What options does anyone out there know of that would allow him to > use regular lines ... and have them rolled over .. or call forwarded to a > regular line .. rather than having to pay the outrageous sum he is paying for > DID lines. > > For example: IS there a way he can buy regular lines for some sort of phone > system and have the hardware roll over to another open line that has a > different number? The cost of a regular local line is $27. > > Saying that he is getting ripped off will not help anything ... as he already > knows that and has had the FCC involved, etc. I am just looking for > technical solutions ... ways he can use 100+ local lines (regular phone lines > with different phone numbers for each line) to decrease the costs associated > with his DID lines. > > Thanks .. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Randy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using mail services provided by NorthLANs Alliance. --------------------------- www.northlans.com --------------------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Aug 26 15:25:34 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Meeting topic Message-ID: <20040826202534.GC32236@fandre.com> So it's about that time for me to start scrambling to find a meeting topic/speaker. Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone have anything interesting that they would like to share? -- Clay _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Aug 26 15:41:14 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? Message-ID: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Hey, something other than gmail to discuss: I'm planning a long-overdue upgrade from SuSE 8.0 on my home "server" to Slack 10 and I'd like to give 2.6 a try. Figured I'd first ping the list to see if anyone had any horror stories about kernel 2.6. I see that kernel.org already has 2.6.8.1 (.1?) so I'm guessing it's stabilized a bit. Last time I tried it though on an old laptop it didn't like it much. Any thoughts? I hear 2.6 has a nice little performance boost. Also, anyone know if Slack's kernel package is just the vanilla kernel or do they futz with it just like almost every other distro? Thx, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com Thu Aug 26 14:10:14 2004 From: jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com (Jason Reynolds) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826121430.01bf9bc8@pop.charter.net> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826121430.01bf9bc8@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <412E3596.1040605@mn.rr.com> Carl Zeilon wrote: > I've been cleaning several machines very successfully in the last > weeks. I now have one that is stumping me. Both PestScan & Norton > 04AV (Hard to believe!) are showing files in Windows\Downloaded > Program Files. These were not detected by SpyBot or AdAware. I don't > see any listing in my Hijack This log either. This is the directory > that contains the active X controls. There appear to be no such > files, hidden or otherwise. I deleted everything just for fun, but > both programs still show files present. Using Search for the specific > files shows nothing anywhere on the drive. Any suggestions? http://www.webroot.com Download spysweeper it will let you update the definitions once. Run it in safe mode as is mentioned in another reply. jason reynolds _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From wilson at visi.com Thu Aug 26 15:52:07 2004 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: On 8/26/04 3:41 PM, "Josh Trutwin" wrote: > I'm planning a long-overdue upgrade from SuSE 8.0 on my home "server" to Slack > 10 and I'd like to give 2.6 a try. Figured I'd first ping the list to see if > anyone had any horror stories about kernel 2.6. I see that kernel.org already > has 2.6.8.1 (.1?) so I'm guessing it's stabilized a bit. Last time I tried it > though on an old laptop it didn't like it much. If I remember correctly, 2.6.8 was a "brown bag" release. Hence the quick appearance of 2.6.8.1. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 public key: 0x8C0F8813 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 16:10:26 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: I've been running 2.6.6 on my home machine now. My main reason for going to 2.6 was the inclusion of prism54 driers in the 2.6 kernel, where I had to patch 2.4.25... Anyway, up for 30 days now. The box plays mp3s all day long, does some web serving, and some other applications. It's only gone down when I reboot it...or trip over a power cord. All and all not bad for passing traffic via a network card with a somewhat immature driver. :) 2.6 seems ready to me, but your milage may vary. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pclinux at charter.net Thu Aug 26 16:06:05 2004 From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826155638.01c04db8@pop.charter.net> At 03:05 PM 8/26/2004, you wrote: >Drop the box into safemode with networking and then do an upgrade to >the AV program. Also, download Lavasoft's Adaware. I had to fight a >spyware issue on my in-laws computer. Quick rundown of steps taken: > >-Reboot into networked safe mode. Upgrade AV program. >-download and install Lavasoft's adaware >-reboot into safe mode (non-networked) and do full AV scan/clean >-reboot into safe mode again >-Run Adaware and fix/delete everything it lists >-reboot and should be okay Pretty close to what I've been doing as well. I run AdAware first, then SpyBot , PestScan, then Hijack This! I've found I need all 4 to get good results. >I've found that PestScan and Spybot are completely worthless. > >On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:24:45 -0500, Carl Zeilon wrote: > > I've been cleaning several machines very successfully in the last weeks. I > > now have one that is stumping me. Both PestScan & Norton 04AV (Hard to > > believe!) are showing files in Windows\Downloaded Program Files. These > > were not detected by SpyBot or AdAware. I don't see any listing in my > > Hijack This log either. This is the directory that contains the active X > > controls. There appear to be no such files, hidden or otherwise. I > > deleted everything just for fun, but both programs still show files > > present. Using Search for the specific files shows nothing anywhere on the > > drive. Any suggestions? I'm still stumped, where are these files? Are they somehow in the Registry but not in the actual folder? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From frye0031 at umn.edu Thu Aug 26 16:11:20 2004 From: frye0031 at umn.edu (Derek J Frye) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412E51F8.6070909@umn.edu> Alright, I've only been reading tclug for awhile, but it seems all the craze is these gmail invites. So to follow suit, I guess the first 6 people who read this will have a new gmail account... well, I suppose I should say the first five "readers" of the list will get an account, because the list maintainer will probably see these first and help themselves :) Please don't use more than one for yourself. Anway, here ya go: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-ea19d2f06b-17da81961a-c012568567 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-ea19d2f06b-18086b5dae-386d654238 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-b3fd6fe80f-6ef2b91f0f http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-93f69498ee-2a1d28add8 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-d824d2f7de-c2ee4956d4 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-b488f0562c-2e7c37b48f Derek P.S. I haven't anymore. Sorry. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.net Thu Aug 26 16:35:02 2004 From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412E5786.5030601@cdf123.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > On 8/26/04 3:41 PM, "Josh Trutwin" wrote: > > >>I'm planning a long-overdue upgrade from SuSE 8.0 on my home "server" to Slack >>10 and I'd like to give 2.6 a try. Figured I'd first ping the list to see if >>anyone had any horror stories about kernel 2.6. I see that kernel.org already >>has 2.6.8.1 (.1?) so I'm guessing it's stabilized a bit. Last time I tried it >>though on an old laptop it didn't like it much. > > > If I remember correctly, 2.6.8 was a "brown bag" release. Hence the quick > appearance of 2.6.8.1. > > -Tim > I've been running 2.6.7 on 8 production servers, 3 gateway routers, 2 desktops, and my laptop for quite a while now. I've run through the 2.6.[0-6] versions as well. I had a few hiccups with the laptop on .3 and .5 (cpu/acpi issues) but nothing since then. I've been debating going to .8.1, but since there's no real bug fixes for me on that one, I'll probably stick with .7. The only reason I moved to .7 was the exploit that was found, otherwise .6 was running great. I've had issues with ALSA and my SBLive card (mixer labels are wrong), but since that machine is mostly a server, I can live with it. Uptime seems good, mostly, I can't comment on it much though, I've had frequent power outages and my battery backup is dieing. I haven't had a panic since 2.6.1. I'd recommend checking it out at least. The usual precautions apply (keep your old kernel handy, backup important stuff, make boot disks just to be safe, etc...) Good luck Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Aug 26 16:39:21 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> I just finished installing 2.6.7 (Debian) in my old Thinkpad. I had been trying to get a Netgear wireless card to work with 2.4.xx kernel. After following instructions to compile drivers, patch this, patch that ..., I found that the prism54 driver was built-in to the 2.6 kernel. So far, everything appears to work as before, with the new kernel. Still no wireless yet. The prism driver is there, but I think I'm still missing something with the Cardbus support. Anyway, 2.6 seems to be working good. Even some problems with sound may have gone away. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG Thu Aug 26 16:33:26 2004 From: Jeffrey.Rasmussen at HFA-MN.ORG (Jeffery Rasmussen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites Message-ID: You are the best! Thanks. Jeff Rasmussen -----Original Message----- From: Derek J Frye [mailto:frye0031@umn.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:11 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites Alright, I've only been reading tclug for awhile, but it seems all the craze is these gmail invites. So to follow suit, I guess the first 6 people who read this will have a new gmail account... well, I suppose I should say the first five "readers" of the list will get an account, because the list maintainer will probably see these first and help themselves :) Please don't use more than one for yourself. Anway, here ya go: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-ea19d2f06b-17da81961a-c012568567 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-ea19d2f06b-18086b5dae-386d654238 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-b3fd6fe80f-6ef2b91f0f http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-93f69498ee-2a1d28add8 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-d824d2f7de-c2ee4956d4 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-b488f0562c-2e7c37b48f Derek P.S. I haven't anymore. Sorry. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From pclinux at charter.net Thu Aug 26 17:01:08 2004 From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826165828.01c17850@pop.charter.net> >On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:24:45 -0500, Carl Zeilon wrote: > > I've been cleaning several machines very successfully in the last weeks. I > > now have one that is stumping me. Both PestScan & Norton 04AV (Hard to > > believe!) are showing files in Windows\Downloaded Program Files. These > > were not detected by SpyBot or AdAware. I don't see any listing in my > > Hijack This log either. This is the directory that contains the active X > > controls. There appear to be no such files, hidden or otherwise. I > > deleted everything just for fun, but both programs still show files > > present. Using Search for the specific files shows nothing anywhere on the > > drive. Any suggestions? .................. The command line is your friend! dah....... Thanks for the tips. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cdf123 at cdf123.net Thu Aug 26 17:11:30 2004 From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826155638.01c04db8@pop.charter.net> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826155638.01c04db8@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <412E6012.3020403@cdf123.net> Carl Zeilon wrote: > At 03:05 PM 8/26/2004, you wrote: > >> Drop the box into safemode with networking and then do an upgrade to >> the AV program. Also, download Lavasoft's Adaware. I had to fight a >> spyware issue on my in-laws computer. Quick rundown of steps taken: >> >> -Reboot into networked safe mode. Upgrade AV program. >> -download and install Lavasoft's adaware >> -reboot into safe mode (non-networked) and do full AV scan/clean >> -reboot into safe mode again >> -Run Adaware and fix/delete everything it lists >> -reboot and should be okay > > > Pretty close to what I've been doing as well. I run AdAware first, then > SpyBot , PestScan, then Hijack This! I've found I need all 4 to get > good results. > > >> I've found that PestScan and Spybot are completely worthless. >> >> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:24:45 -0500, Carl Zeilon >> wrote: >> > I've been cleaning several machines very successfully in the last >> weeks. I >> > now have one that is stumping me. Both PestScan & Norton 04AV (Hard to >> > believe!) are showing files in Windows\Downloaded Program Files. These >> > were not detected by SpyBot or AdAware. I don't see any listing in my >> > Hijack This log either. This is the directory that contains the >> active X >> > controls. There appear to be no such files, hidden or otherwise. I >> > deleted everything just for fun, but both programs still show files >> > present. Using Search for the specific files shows nothing anywhere >> on the >> > drive. Any suggestions? > > > I'm still stumped, where are these files? Are they somehow in the > Registry but not in the actual folder? > Try this (WARNING: THIS MAY, AND PROBABLY WILL, BREAK SOMETHING): Open a command prompt (no this will NOT work with any other windows editor, it must be in a DOS environment. a knoppix cd would work too.) Type in: edit "c:\windows\downloaded program files\desktop.ini" The file should look something like this (example from Win2kPro): [.ShellClassInfo] CLSID={88C6C381-2E85-11d0-94DE-444553540000} Write those lines down, or save the file somewhere else for backup. Delete those lines. Save the file. TADA!! The files will be visible from Windows Explorer now. Some of the files can be deleted, and if there are any "CONFLICT.X" folders they can be safely deleted too. Any OCX or DLL files should be unregistered before deleting. Unregister them with: "regsvr32.exe /u PATH_TO_OCXFILE" Restore the desktop.ini file to what it was before you messed with it. Shutdown the machine. Pray. Reboot the machine. That should let you kill anything in that folder with whatever methods you like. NOTE: Be careful with desktop.ini files. Windows Explorer will read a desktop.ini file in any folder. It is used to tell Windows Explorer to give up control of that folder (and sometimes all sub folders) to whatever program or dll or whatever the information in the desktop.ini file tells it to. If you want to see them in use, boot to knoppix and see what shows up with a 'find -type f -name "desktop.ini"' search, and see what each of them does. PERSONAL NOTE: I'd like to extend a thank you to the list, because of the help I've received from here and other sources, I've been able to run a much more tech friendly os. Dealing with obscure issues like this is no longer a weekly chore. Chris Frederick _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Thu Aug 26 17:25:29 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT Windows Spyware In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826155638.01c04db8@pop.charter.net> References: <6.1.1.1.0.20040826155638.01c04db8@pop.charter.net> Message-ID: <1093559129.4896.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 16:06, Carl Zeilon wrote: ...snip... > > Pretty close to what I've been doing as well. I run AdAware first, then > SpyBot , PestScan, then Hijack This! I've found I need all 4 to get good > results. > I absolutely agree with the above. Someone else mentioned Spyswpeer. I've found Spysweer does a really good job protecting you from getting spyware, but once you've got it, the above do a good job removing it. Unfortunately, there isn't any one good program for removal, but any combination of three of the above will usually take care of most. --paul silwenae@silwenae.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Thu Aug 26 17:27:48 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites In-Reply-To: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <1093559268.4896.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> It's funny you mention this. I got my account three or four months ago, immediately got an invite to send out, but then never have received another invite to send. Maybe they do it based on how much you use it? Because I don't use it as my main email, but I'm checking it and sending or receiving 1-3 emails a day on it. --paul silwenae@silwenae.com On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 09:32, James Kaufman wrote: > This Gmail thing is replicating like a virus. I signed up yesterday, used it a > little, and now I have three invites to give away. > > Let me know if you want one. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Thu Aug 26 20:07:49 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:56 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <412E8965.2020109@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Josh Trutwin wrote: > Hey, something other than gmail to discuss: > > I'm planning a long-overdue upgrade from SuSE 8.0 on my home "server" to Slack 10 and I'd like to give 2.6 a try. Figured I'd first ping the list to see if anyone had any horror stories about kernel 2.6. I see that kernel.org already has 2.6.8.1 (.1?) so I'm guessing it's stabilized a bit. Last time I tried it though on an old laptop it didn't like it much. > > Any thoughts? I hear 2.6 has a nice little performance boost. Also, anyone know if Slack's kernel package is just the vanilla kernel or do they futz with it just like almost every other distro? Hello, and a good day to you. I am glad that you have made such a wise decision regarding the switch from Suse to Slackware for your server ;) The 2.6.7 kernel that comes with slack 10 has been messed with. There are some extra instructions for the stock slack 2.6 kernels this time around. Mainly being that you need to setup initrd to use the stock 2.6 Slack kernel. If you use the stock kernel, make sure you read all the doc's in the /testing/packages/linux-2.6.7 directory of your cd (or where ever you have it). If you compile your own kernel, you do not need to monkey around with initrd at all. I compiled 2.6.7 on 2 boxes I have, both running Slack10, and I have had no drama to report at all. Both these computers are quite old though (circa 1997 & 2000ish), and really do not have any fancy hardware requirements. I originally switched to the 2.6 kernel because it supports the ATA-133 pci cards I am using in both these boxes. If I was you, I would compile your own kernel to keep it Mean & Lean... Good Luck, Robert De Mars -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From electrum at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 21:15:06 2004 From: electrum at gmail.com (David Phillips) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Gmail Invites--If any are left... In-Reply-To: <20040826171855.16193.qmail@stonewebs.com> References: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <20040826171855.16193.qmail@stonewebs.com> Message-ID: <853e1ecc04082619155d5b4a3b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:18:55 -0500, fangio101 wrote: > I would like to give it a try... > > if not, maybe someone will save me one later. Check eBay. I've purchased several invites for less than $1.50 each. -- David Phillips http://david.acz.org/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Fri Aug 27 07:51:38 2004 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: <412E8965.2020109@b-o-b.homelinux.com> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E8965.2020109@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <20040827075138.00005edb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:07:49 -0500 "Robert D. De Mars" wrote: > Hello, and a good day to you. I am glad that you > have made such a wise decision regarding the > switch from Suse to Slackware for your server ;) Well, SuSE served me well for a number of years, but I really like what I see in Slackware. Nothing against SuSE, just time to move on to better things. :) > The 2.6.7 kernel that comes with slack 10 has been > messed with. There are some extra instructions > for the stock slack 2.6 kernels this time around. > Mainly being that you need to setup initrd to > use the stock 2.6 Slack kernel. If you use the > stock kernel, make sure you read all the doc's in > the /testing/packages/linux-2.6.7 directory of > your cd (or where ever you have it). Thanks for the tips! Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Aug 27 09:11:18 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3B5@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> I just got 3 invites...free for any 3 people who want them.....anyone...mail me off list... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kent at structural-wood.com Fri Aug 27 09:40:29 2004 From: kent at structural-wood.com (Kent Schumacher) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3B5@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3B5@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <412F47DD.8010003@structural-wood.com> Hi Dan, I'd like one please Lansing, Dan wrote: > I just got 3 invites...free for any 3 people who want > them.....anyone...mail me off list... > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 09:47:10 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:39:21 -0500, Kraig Jones wrote: > ...., I found that the prism54 driver was built-in to the 2.6 kernel. So > far, everything appears to work as before, with the new kernel. Still > no wireless yet. The prism driver is there, but I think I'm still > missing something First, I really want to see what gmail does with the edited subject. ;) I don't know the full details of what you've done so far to get your prism54 card working, but the most common issue I've seen is people forgetting to load the card's firmware. The Windows driver CD that came with your card should have the firmware on it. Technically prism54.org can't distribute the firmware, but someone has a link to it anyway. For my card (SMC2802W) all I had to do was: cp /media/cdrom/Driver/smc2802w.arm /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/isl3890 isl3890 is the name of the file, not a directory. :) You may have to create the firmware directory... there is more info on the prism54 forums (http://prism54.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=25) including what I did to get my card working on Sarge. G'luck. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Fri Aug 27 09:46:52 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3C2@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> All gone, thanks for playing -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Lansing, Dan Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:11 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites I just got 3 invites...free for any 3 people who want them.....anyone...mail me off list... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rpgoldman at real-time.com Fri Aug 27 11:12:53 2004 From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] kernel 2.6 ready for prime time? In-Reply-To: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> Message-ID: <16687.23941.953714.601657@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Mandrake 10.0 official uses 2.6.3, which seems quite solid. Well, at least for a Mandrake release! :-) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 12:13:55 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: email hosting services? Message-ID: Does anyone have recommendations for email hosting services? I have a friend that's in need of a stable hosting service for two or three acounts on his domain. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Fri Aug 27 12:29:57 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: email hosting services? In-Reply-To: ; from erikerik@gmail.com on Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 12:13:55PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20040827122957.C17694@thinkunix.net> Erik Anderson wrote: > Does anyone have recommendations for email hosting services? I have a > friend that's in need of a stable hosting service for two or three > acounts on his domain. pajunas interactive is a local company that does web and mail hosting http://pajunas.com/hosting/ -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mmurphy at tc-tech.com Fri Aug 27 13:02:34 2004 From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: email hosting services? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412F773A.80603@tc-tech.com> Erik Anderson wrote: > Does anyone have recommendations for email hosting services? I have a > friend that's in need of a stable hosting service for two or three > acounts on his domain. We chose visi, partly because they use postini for virus and spam filtering, which rocks. I pay $5 a month to onvoy for my mr.net account, who also use postini. I can't say enough good things about that service. Matt _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 13:26:58 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: email hosting services? In-Reply-To: <412F773A.80603@tc-tech.com> References: <412F773A.80603@tc-tech.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:02:34 -0500, Matt Murphy wrote: > We chose visi, partly because they use postini for virus and spam > filtering, which rocks. I pay $5 a month to onvoy for my mr.net account, > who also use postini. I can't say enough good things about that service. I've used visi's ISP services before, along with a visi.com email address, and I agree, their services are top-notch...but do they offer email-only hosting services? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From bradyh at bitstream.net Fri Aug 27 14:12:30 2004 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (bradyh@bitstream.net) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: email hosting services? In-Reply-To: <20040827122957.C17694@thinkunix.net> References: <20040827122957.C17694@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <1093633950.412f879ed996e@mail.bitstream.net> > Erik Anderson wrote: > > Does anyone have recommendations for email hosting services? I have a > > friend that's in need of a stable hosting service for two or three > > acounts on his domain. > > pajunas interactive is a local company that does web and mail hosting > http://pajunas.com/hosting/ > -- > scot Another local company that hosts email accounts (and websites) is Litrius Group. (Which is where I work.) Contact jwickard@litriusgroup.com for information. Brady _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 15:04:08 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT: email hosting services? In-Reply-To: <1093633950.412f879ed996e@mail.bitstream.net> References: <20040827122957.C17694@thinkunix.net> <1093633950.412f879ed996e@mail.bitstream.net> Message-ID: <3f0ccce004082713048d87dd1@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:12:30 -0500, bradyh@bitstream.net wrote: > > Erik Anderson wrote: > > > Does anyone have recommendations for email hosting services? I have a > > > friend that's in need of a stable hosting service for two or three > > > acounts on his domain. > > > > pajunas interactive is a local company that does web and mail hosting > > http://pajunas.com/hosting/ > > -- > > scot > > Another local company that hosts email accounts (and websites) is Litrius Group. > (Which is where I work.) Contact jwickard@litriusgroup.com for information. > > Brady Actually the correct contact information would be bradyh@litriusgroup.com. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Fri Aug 27 20:50:32 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:57 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 laptop dual head probs Message-ID: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> I'm still trying to figure out why my laptop won't output X to my CRT. LCD screen is just fine, the CRT shows non-X boot/system stuff (so the connection is good). Went through some of the KDE GUI display settings, but one says I don't have Xfree 4.3 "the latest", so I can't resize. Unrelated? The KDE "Display" (system-config-display) UI lets you configure for dual head, but it just won't come through on the CRT. My CRT is actually a NEC MultiSync 97F, but it wasn't offered. I also switched Xinerama to "off" and Clone to "on" and it still didn't work. Here's my "xorg.conf" file: ----------- # Xorg configuration created by system-config-display Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Multihead layout" Screen 0 "Screen0" LeftOf "Screen1" Screen 1 "Screen1" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" Option "Xinerama" "on" Option "Clone" "off" EndSection Section "Files" # RgbPath is the location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name of the # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally # no need to change the default. # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) # By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of # the X server to render fonts. RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" FontPath "unix/:7100" EndSection Section "Module" Load "dbe" Load "extmod" Load "fbdevhw" Load "glx" Load "record" Load "freetype" Load "type1" Load "dri" EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" "yes" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) # Option "Xleds" "1 2 3" # To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable. # Option "XkbDisable" # To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the # lines below (which are the defaults). For example, for a non-U.S. # keyboard, you will probably want to use: # Option "XkbModel" "pc102" # If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use: # Option "XkbModel" "microsoft" # # Then to change the language, change the Layout setting. # For example, a german layout can be obtained with: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # or: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" # # If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and # control keys, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps" # Or if you just want both to be control, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" # Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "keyboard" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "LCD Panel 1280x1024" HorizSync 31.5 - 67.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 75.0 Option "dpms" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor1" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "NEC MultiSync 95F" HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0 VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0 Option "dpms" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" Driver "radeon" VendorName "Videocard vendor" BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility U1" BusID "PCI:1:5:0" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard1" Driver "radeon" VendorName "Videocard Vendor" BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility U1" BusID "PCI:1:5:0" Screen 1 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Videocard0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 Modes "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "Videocard1" Monitor "Monitor1" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 Modes "1152x864" "1280x960" "1600x1200" EndSubSection EndSection Section "DRI" Group 0 Mode 0666 EndSection _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From thurianknight at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 07:57:50 2004 From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 laptop dual head probs In-Reply-To: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> References: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <7bdea6e304082805576d7cb25a@mail.gmail.com> Forgive me if I'm asking a silly question, but isn't the video-output on a laptop intended to simply give out the same display on the main screen, and NOT provide dual-head capabilities? This is what my experience has been, having owned several laptops over the years, including the one I am using right now. If you really want dual-head output, don't you need 2 video cards? Assuming that I am correct, then the issue isn't really X, but the hardware or firmware (maybe at the BIOS level?) in your laptop. I know that on my current laptop, running FC2, all I need to do is plug in any 1024x768 capable monitor, press a couple of function keys, and I immediately have my desktop output to the CRT. I can press a couple more function keys and get output to both the LCD and CRT, but the display is exactly the same -- NOT dual-head. If I am wrong, that's fine. But this has been, and continues to be, my experience. Dave Sherman BTW, using gmail and loving it. Thanks to all for their generosity with the invitations, I was one of the beneficiaries. On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:50:32 -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > I'm still trying to figure out why my laptop won't output X to my CRT. > LCD screen is just fine, the CRT shows non-X boot/system stuff (so the > connection is good). Went through some of the KDE GUI display settings, > but one says I don't have Xfree 4.3 "the latest", so I can't resize. > Unrelated? The KDE "Display" (system-config-display) UI lets you > configure for dual head, but it just won't come through on the CRT. > > My CRT is actually a NEC MultiSync 97F, but it wasn't offered. I also > switched Xinerama to "off" and Clone to "on" and it still didn't work. > > Here's my "xorg.conf" file: > ----------- > # Xorg configuration created by system-config-display > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Multihead layout" > Screen 0 "Screen0" LeftOf "Screen1" > Screen 1 "Screen1" 0 0 > InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > Option "Xinerama" "on" > Option "Clone" "off" > EndSection > > Section "Files" > > # RgbPath is the location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name > of the > # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally > # no need to change the default. > # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) > # By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of > # the X server to render fonts. > RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" > FontPath "unix/:7100" > EndSection > > Section "Module" > Load "dbe" > Load "extmod" > Load "fbdevhw" > Load "glx" > Load "record" > Load "freetype" > Load "type1" > Load "dri" > EndSection > > Section "ServerFlags" > Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" "yes" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > > # Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) > # Option "Xleds" "1 2 3" > # To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable. > # Option "XkbDisable" > # To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the > # lines below (which are the defaults). For example, for a non-U.S. > # keyboard, you will probably want to use: > # Option "XkbModel" "pc102" > # If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use: > # Option "XkbModel" "microsoft" > # > # Then to change the language, change the Layout setting. > # For example, a german layout can be obtained with: > # Option "XkbLayout" "de" > # or: > # Option "XkbLayout" "de" > # Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" > # > # If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and > # control keys, use: > # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps" > # Or if you just want both to be control, use: > # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" > # > Identifier "Keyboard0" > Driver "keyboard" > Option "XkbModel" "pc105" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Mouse0" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Monitor0" > VendorName "Monitor Vendor" > ModelName "LCD Panel 1280x1024" > HorizSync 31.5 - 67.0 > VertRefresh 50.0 - 75.0 > Option "dpms" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Monitor1" > VendorName "Monitor Vendor" > ModelName "NEC MultiSync 95F" > HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0 > VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0 > Option "dpms" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Videocard0" > Driver "radeon" > VendorName "Videocard vendor" > BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility U1" > BusID "PCI:1:5:0" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Videocard1" > Driver "radeon" > VendorName "Videocard Vendor" > BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility U1" > BusID "PCI:1:5:0" > Screen 1 > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Videocard0" > Monitor "Monitor0" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Viewport 0 0 > Depth 24 > Modes "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen1" > Device "Videocard1" > Monitor "Monitor1" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Viewport 0 0 > Depth 24 > Modes "1152x864" "1280x960" "1600x1200" > EndSubSection > EndSection > > Section "DRI" > Group 0 > Mode 0666 > EndSection > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Dave Sherman MCSA, MCSE, CCNA [Insert witty .sig here.] _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From olwe at cpinternet.com Sat Aug 28 08:23:17 2004 From: olwe at cpinternet.com (Olwe Melwasul) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 laptop dual head probs In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e304082805576d7cb25a@mail.gmail.com> References: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> <7bdea6e304082805576d7cb25a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41308744.4000907@cpinternet.com> Sounds like a winner, but it's not doing X. As I said, it does in fact give the same display as the LCD--when not in X. But the second the X server is involved, the CRT goes off. I'd love to know what those function keys are. The BIOS doesn't have anything related to this situation, as far as I can see. Olwe Dave Sherman wrote: >Forgive me if I'm asking a silly question, but isn't the video-output >on a laptop intended to simply give out the same display on the main >screen, and NOT provide dual-head capabilities? This is what my >experience has been, having owned several laptops over the years, >including the one I am using right now. If you really want dual-head >output, don't you need 2 video cards? > >Assuming that I am correct, then the issue isn't really X, but the >hardware or firmware (maybe at the BIOS level?) in your laptop. I know >that on my current laptop, running FC2, all I need to do is plug in >any 1024x768 capable monitor, press a couple of function keys, and I >immediately have my desktop output to the CRT. I can press a couple >more function keys and get output to both the LCD and CRT, but the >display is exactly the same -- NOT dual-head. > >If I am wrong, that's fine. But this has been, and continues to be, my >experience. > >Dave Sherman > >BTW, using gmail and loving it. Thanks to all for their generosity >with the invitations, I was one of the beneficiaries. > >On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:50:32 -0500, Olwe Melwasul wrote: > > >>I'm still trying to figure out why my laptop won't output X to my CRT. >>LCD screen is just fine, the CRT shows non-X boot/system stuff (so the >>connection is good). Went through some of the KDE GUI display settings, >>but one says I don't have Xfree 4.3 "the latest", so I can't resize. >>Unrelated? The KDE "Display" (system-config-display) UI lets you >>configure for dual head, but it just won't come through on the CRT. >> >>My CRT is actually a NEC MultiSync 97F, but it wasn't offered. I also >>switched Xinerama to "off" and Clone to "on" and it still didn't work. >> >>Here's my "xorg.conf" file: >>----------- >># Xorg configuration created by system-config-display >> >>Section "ServerLayout" >> Identifier "Multihead layout" >> Screen 0 "Screen0" LeftOf "Screen1" >> Screen 1 "Screen1" 0 0 >> InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" >> InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" >> Option "Xinerama" "on" >> Option "Clone" "off" >>EndSection >> >>Section "Files" >> >># RgbPath is the location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name >>of the >># file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally >># no need to change the default. >># Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) >># By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of >># the X server to render fonts. >> RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" >> FontPath "unix/:7100" >>EndSection >> >>Section "Module" >> Load "dbe" >> Load "extmod" >> Load "fbdevhw" >> Load "glx" >> Load "record" >> Load "freetype" >> Load "type1" >> Load "dri" >>EndSection >> >>Section "ServerFlags" >> Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" "yes" >>EndSection >> >>Section "InputDevice" >> >># Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) >># Option "Xleds" "1 2 3" >># To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable. >># Option "XkbDisable" >># To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the >># lines below (which are the defaults). For example, for a non-U.S. >># keyboard, you will probably want to use: >># Option "XkbModel" "pc102" >># If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use: >># Option "XkbModel" "microsoft" >># >># Then to change the language, change the Layout setting. >># For example, a german layout can be obtained with: >># Option "XkbLayout" "de" >># or: >># Option "XkbLayout" "de" >># Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" >># >># If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and >># control keys, use: >># Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps" >># Or if you just want both to be control, use: >># Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" >># >> Identifier "Keyboard0" >> Driver "keyboard" >> Option "XkbModel" "pc105" >> Option "XkbLayout" "us" >>EndSection >> >>Section "InputDevice" >> Identifier "Mouse0" >> Driver "mouse" >> Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" >> Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" >> Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" >> Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" >>EndSection >> >>Section "Monitor" >> Identifier "Monitor0" >> VendorName "Monitor Vendor" >> ModelName "LCD Panel 1280x1024" >> HorizSync 31.5 - 67.0 >> VertRefresh 50.0 - 75.0 >> Option "dpms" >>EndSection >> >>Section "Monitor" >> Identifier "Monitor1" >> VendorName "Monitor Vendor" >> ModelName "NEC MultiSync 95F" >> HorizSync 31.0 - 96.0 >> VertRefresh 55.0 - 160.0 >> Option "dpms" >>EndSection >> >>Section "Device" >> Identifier "Videocard0" >> Driver "radeon" >> VendorName "Videocard vendor" >> BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility U1" >> BusID "PCI:1:5:0" >>EndSection >> >>Section "Device" >> Identifier "Videocard1" >> Driver "radeon" >> VendorName "Videocard Vendor" >> BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility U1" >> BusID "PCI:1:5:0" >> Screen 1 >>EndSection >> >>Section "Screen" >> Identifier "Screen0" >> Device "Videocard0" >> Monitor "Monitor0" >> DefaultDepth 24 >> SubSection "Display" >> Viewport 0 0 >> Depth 24 >> Modes "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" >> EndSubSection >>EndSection >> >>Section "Screen" >> Identifier "Screen1" >> Device "Videocard1" >> Monitor "Monitor1" >> DefaultDepth 24 >> SubSection "Display" >> Viewport 0 0 >> Depth 24 >> Modes "1152x864" "1280x960" "1600x1200" >> EndSubSection >>EndSection >> >>Section "DRI" >> Group 0 >> Mode 0666 >>EndSection >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dtgm at comcast.net Sat Aug 28 03:31:38 2004 From: dtgm at comcast.net (Adam Shrode) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail Invites In-Reply-To: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <20040826143226.GA1365@jmksystem.kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <413042EA.8010203@comcast.net> James Kaufman wrote: >This Gmail thing is replicating like a virus. I signed up yesterday, used it a >little, and now I have three invites to give away. > >Let me know if you want one. > I have more invites. Email adamshrode@gmail.com if you haven't received a piece of this beast yet. - as - _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Aug 28 10:08:26 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 laptop dual head probs In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e304082805576d7cb25a@mail.gmail.com> References: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> <7bdea6e304082805576d7cb25a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1093705706.3880.6.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sat Aug 28 10:23:06 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] FC2 laptop dual head probs In-Reply-To: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> References: <412FE4E7.5080508@cpinternet.com> Message-ID: <1093706586.3880.21.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Sun Aug 29 11:08:19 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail Message-ID: I knew it was only a matter of time. In fact, I knew it would happen because when I made my comment last week about my proof-of-concept code using GMail as file storage, no one said "Adam, you're cracked." So what do I find on /. this morning, but a link to GMailFS - a complete filesystem implementation using a GMail accont for storage. (Yes, slashdot is my primary source of news.) Oh well, it's probably more reliable than NFS. Things like this scare me. I fear for future geek generations. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu Sun Aug 29 13:38:07 2004 From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1093804687.3880.45.camel@3po> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rsinland at gvtel.com Sun Aug 29 21:26:01 2004 From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gmail invites Message-ID: <41329039.9070708@gvtel.com> Here are some invites if anyone can use them http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-576a969f5a-ffc3c97e33 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-94496ed5db-fcc8e89252 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-8c7ef48b3d-e13d752673 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-cf398ce2e0-854ff01d68 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-b5a4d87ba0-96c9ba05d1 RS -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.262 / Virus Database: 264.7.0 - Release Date: 8/24/2004 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From lug at hentzenwerke.com Sun Aug 29 22:05:22 2004 From: lug at hentzenwerke.com (Whil Hentzen) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:58 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Want Linux newbie session topics and materials from MLUG? Message-ID: <200408292205.22552.lug@hentzenwerke.com> Hi folks, Gonna try an experiment here. I've been holding newbie sessions before the general meeting of the Milwaukee LUG for about a year now. They've been a good way for me to learn something about Linux administration (I'm a custom software developer and part-time book publisher by trade, so the admin part is all new to me) and have been my way of giving back to the community for all the questions I've asked over the years. These newbie sessions have been pretty well received - they're not strictly one-way presentations, but more of a guided discussion about a topic. That way, even the very experienced members learn something once in a while. After each newbie session, I incorporate the feedback I get from the meeting and write up the session into a whitepaper. They're all written with a Creative Commons (http://creativecommons.org/) License. Over the past year, I've done newbie sessions on cron, choosing a partition scheme, the top ten command window tips, how Linux starts up, and so on. I also do whitepapers on other topics where I've needed substantial help, and figure the best way to say 'thanks' is to write up the notes and make them available to those that follow. There have been members of other user groups who have attended our meetings at times, or who have stumbled across one of them online, and used these topics and whitepapers as a source of sessions for their own meetings. It dawned on me that maybe a more systematic dispersal of these would be useful to other user groups. So... I just finished writing up the whitepaper for our August meeting's newbie session on ssh. It's available here: http://www.hentzenwerke.com/wp/remoteaccessviassh.htm My question to you is.... would your group be interested in having me post a note to the mailing list each time I make a presentation and/or write up a new whitepaper? Given that most groups are looking for help with presentations at one time or another, I'm guessing this would be of interest, but at the same time, it's only polite to ask, rather than just barge in and start blabbing all about. -- Whil Moving to Linux: Freedom, Choice, Security, Opportunity http://www.hentzenwerke.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Thu Aug 26 21:42:03 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Gmail invites - The lucky winners References: Message-ID: <005b01c48bdf$71f0f080$1e02a8c0@zippy> And the winners are . . http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-ea19d2f06b-17da81961a-c012568567 = rcbeta@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-ea19d2f06b-18086b5dae-386d654238 = rsinland@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-b3fd6fe80f-6ef2b91f0f = rick3104@gmail.com. http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-93f69498ee-2a1d28add8 = drewthat@gmail.com. http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-d824d2f7de-c2ee4956d4 = jeff.rasmussen@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-fa55e045e2-b488f0562c-2e7c37b48f = florin.iucha@gmail.com mark.browne@gmail.com I have another invite available, email me at the address above. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Sun Aug 29 22:19:25 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gmail invites used up References: <41329039.9070708@gvtel.com> Message-ID: <009001c48e40$2b0f7160$1e02a8c0@zippy> The winners are . . . http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-576a969f5a-ffc3c97e33 = episentry@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-94496ed5db-fcc8e89252 = Bob.Schilmoeller@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-8c7ef48b3d-e13d752673 = GoingBoeing@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-cf398ce2e0-854ff01d68 = trisknari@gmail.com http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-2bba594c2e-b5a4d87ba0-96c9ba05d1 = sirmilker@gmail.com I have a few to offer - email me at mark.browne@gmail.com BTW - how are you guys getting the invite as links? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Sun Aug 29 22:51:56 2004 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gmail invites used up In-Reply-To: <009001c48e40$2b0f7160$1e02a8c0@zippy> References: <41329039.9070708@gvtel.com> <009001c48e40$2b0f7160$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:19:25 -0500, Mark Browne wrote: > BTW - how are you guys getting the invite as links? > Just send the invite to yourself and paste the link from that email. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x3EA9CF8F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 03:59:22 2004 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Want Linux newbie session topics and materials from MLUG? In-Reply-To: <200408292205.22552.lug@hentzenwerke.com> References: <200408292205.22552.lug@hentzenwerke.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a04083001594ed5e539@mail.gmail.com> Sounds good to me Whil. Always nice to have some basic information to go over and pick new things up. On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:05:22 -0500, Whil Hentzen wrote: > Hi folks, > > Gonna try an experiment here. > > I've been holding newbie sessions before the general meeting of the > Milwaukee LUG for about a year now. They've been a good way for me to learn > something about Linux administration (I'm a custom software developer and > part-time book publisher by trade, so the admin part is all new to me) and > have been my way of giving back to the community for all the questions I've > asked over the years. > My question to you is.... would your group be interested in having me post > a note to the mailing list each time I make a presentation and/or write up a > new whitepaper? Given that most groups are looking for help with > presentations at one time or another, I'm guessing this would be of > interest, but at the same time, it's only polite to ask, rather than just > barge in and start blabbing all about. > -- > Whil _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 07:40:30 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] gmail invites In-Reply-To: <41329039.9070708@gvtel.com> References: <41329039.9070708@gvtel.com> Message-ID: Six invites from Zibby...whoever clicks first gets gmail goodness. 1: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-73d1ddaa8d-4ba80918a0-bc35113ff9 2: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-73d1ddaa8d-09e90c8655-f6be24bc46 3: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-73d1ddaa8d-d0f02a975c-c895e1b477 4: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-73d1ddaa8d-ec170ee7fb-8e0a60bc2f 5: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-73d1ddaa8d-58ab6c95b6-156bc8aa6f 6: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-73d1ddaa8d-1bd918cc4f-5450432703 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Mon Aug 30 07:28:09 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: <1093804687.3880.45.camel@3po> Message-ID: > Heh. Well, borrowing from The Hacker Test > [http://www.armory.com/tests/hacker.html], I suppose the next step is to > make sure that swapping gets implemented. Or as a boot device? Someone should request a minor device number. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Aug 30 08:30:37 2004 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] three more Gmail invites Message-ID: All of my friends already have it, so: http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-3699596215-b8159386a8-081ac31ffa http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-3699596215-1985f6a7fb-f6eab5bbf7 http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-3699596215-37a03058f6-bbeb003e77 I estimate they'll be gone inside of five minutes. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From markdeb.browne at comcast.net Sun Aug 29 23:54:27 2004 From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Yet Another Batch of gmail invites References: <41329039.9070708@gvtel.com> <009001c48e40$2b0f7160$1e02a8c0@zippy> Message-ID: <00c001c48e4d$6f584ba0$1e02a8c0@zippy> Just send the invite to yourself and paste the link from that email. Like this . . . https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-18379a4c2b-5ecc962353 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-ae941556ec-9450ecb2f4 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-ebee8edc26-443a36ebc1 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-079d2d7829-223cf13690 https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-caef070b03-0ff9336a07-dbaef04b5c mark.browne@gmail.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jwickard at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 16:25:04 2004 From: jwickard at gmail.com (Joel Wickard) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] GMail account Message-ID: <3f0ccce00408301425701bb630@mail.gmail.com> sign up. http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b660b669bc-5ef7696954-812820aeee yay. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From klinej at msoe.edu Mon Aug 30 21:25:55 2004 From: klinej at msoe.edu (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1093919155.2124.0.camel@smurfette> Adam, if you boot of a GMailFS, you need to be shot. If I get bored in teh near future, I'm going to convert the GmailFS driver to C, and make it a "real" kernel block driver and make it so you can swap to it. God bless Vmware. ~J On Mon, 2004-08-30 at 07:28, Adam Maloney wrote: > > Heh. Well, borrowing from The Hacker Test > > [http://www.armory.com/tests/hacker.html], I suppose the next step is to > > make sure that swapping gets implemented. > > Or as a boot device? > > Someone should request a minor device number. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jonathan Kline Milwaukee School of Engineering _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Mon Aug 30 22:41:28 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> Message-ID: <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> Andrew Zbikowski wrote: >For my card (SMC2802W) all I had to do was: >cp /media/cdrom/Driver/smc2802w.arm /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/isl3890 >isl3890 is the name of the file, not a directory. :) You may have to >create the firmware directory... > > There are no .arm files of any kind with the Windows drivers, but Google found a file called isl3890 (91.8K) which I copied to /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/. Still no success. lspci does not list the WG511, though other cardbus cards do show up. The WG511 has two LEDs, which have never come on. So I think I still have cardbus/PCMCIA problems, not network problems. Am I correct that hotplug handles the card-computer interface, and that has to be working before the computer and network driver can begin to work? I'm confused about where the "firmware" comes in. To me, "firmware" means non-volatile memory, and shouldn't have to be loaded every time the card starts up. Thanks for the help. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Tue Aug 31 08:08:30 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: <1093919155.2124.0.camel@smurfette> Message-ID: > Adam, if you boot of a GMailFS, you need to be shot. If I get bored in > teh near future, I'm going to convert the GmailFS driver to C, and make > it a "real" kernel block driver and make it so you can swap to it. God > bless Vmware. So you're going to swapon /dev/gmailfs - and I need to be shot? :) Ya' know, with 4 or 5 Gmail accounts, and a good GMailFS driver, you could implement software RAID across the accounts. I'd be happy to donate some invites for this project. devgfs0a@gmail.com devgfs0b@gmail.com... I wonder if locking could be good enough to use this as shared storage for multiple machines? flock() probably wouldn't be adequate, so someone would have to add a GMail specific lock called glock(), which you could then also use to shoot yourself. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Tue Aug 31 08:15:27 2004 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> Message-ID: <000001c48f5c$9584fb60$0439a8c0@Kurama> Is the card a NetGear WG511T 108 pc-card? I have one and I'm using the madwifi drives from sourceforge to enable this card on my HP laptop using slackware 10.0. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Kraig Jones Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:41 PM To: Andrew Zbikowski; TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) Andrew Zbikowski wrote: >For my card (SMC2802W) all I had to do was: >cp /media/cdrom/Driver/smc2802w.arm /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/isl3890 >isl3890 is the name of the file, not a directory. :) You may have to >create the firmware directory... > > There are no .arm files of any kind with the Windows drivers, but Google found a file called isl3890 (91.8K) which I copied to /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/. Still no success. lspci does not list the WG511, though other cardbus cards do show up. The WG511 has two LEDs, which have never come on. So I think I still have cardbus/PCMCIA problems, not network problems. Am I correct that hotplug handles the card-computer interface, and that has to be working before the computer and network driver can begin to work? I'm confused about where the "firmware" comes in. To me, "firmware" means non-volatile memory, and shouldn't have to be loaded every time the card starts up. Thanks for the help. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jkjones at tcq.net Tue Aug 31 08:55:31 2004 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: <000001c48f5c$9584fb60$0439a8c0@Kurama> References: <000001c48f5c$9584fb60$0439a8c0@Kurama> Message-ID: <41348353.7020600@tcq.net> Joseph Key wrote: >Is the card a NetGear WG511T 108 pc-card? I have one and I'm using the >madwifi drives from sourceforge to enable this card on my HP laptop using >slackware 10.0. > > > I think it's a plain old WG511, no "T". FCC ID PY3WG511. Supposed to use the prism54 driver. Kraig _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 09:04:00 2004 From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (rware) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <307a337f040831070467ed2567@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:08:30 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > Adam, if you boot of a GMailFS, you need to be shot. If I get bored in > > teh near future, I'm going to convert the GmailFS driver to C, and make > > it a "real" kernel block driver and make it so you can swap to it. God > > bless Vmware. > > So you're going to swapon /dev/gmailfs - and I need to be shot? :) > > Ya' know, with 4 or 5 Gmail accounts, and a good GMailFS driver, you could > implement software RAID across the accounts. I'd be happy to donate some > invites for this project. devgfs0a@gmail.com devgfs0b@gmail.com... A poor man's NAS:) I'd go raid 10 though. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tanner at real-time.com Tue Aug 31 09:55:55 2004 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) Message-ID: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Tue Aug 31 10:02:14 2004 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: <307a337f040831070467ed2567@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > A poor man's NAS:) I'd go raid 10 though. In case you lose a couple of accounts? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com Tue Aug 31 10:13:39 2004 From: Dan.Lansing at AndersenCorp.com (Lansing, Dan) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) Message-ID: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3DB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Remove nothing, if someone doesn't want something to be public record they should never have submitted it to a public forum. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bob Tanner Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:56 AM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) As people get back to school, I think it's a good time to put the following up for discussion to see of the community has changed its mind. How do you want to handle the following requests: Please remove my post XXXXX from the mailing list archives Please remove my email address from the post XXXX in the mailing list archives Comments? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:22:28 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> References: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> Message-ID: If they want their e-mail address removed, I can understand that. But name or the entire post? Nope, you sent it, now you should have to live with the consequences... -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Tue Aug 31 10:30:41 2004 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert D. De Mars) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3DB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3DB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: <413499A1.3020601@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Lansing, Dan wrote: > Remove nothing, if someone doesn't want something to be public record > they should never have submitted it to a public forum. > AGREED!!! Robert De Mars > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bob Tanner > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:56 AM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) > > > As people get back to school, I think it's a good time to put the > following up for discussion to see of the community has changed its > mind. > > How do you want to handle the following requests: > > Please remove my post XXXXX from the mailing list archives Please remove > my email address from the post XXXX in the mailing list archives > > Comments? > -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://b-o-b.homelinux.com Lat 45:09N / Long 93:18W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:19:54 2004 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Prism54 (Was kernel 2.6 ready for prime time?) In-Reply-To: <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> References: <20040826154114.000038b0@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp> <412E5889.4060302@tcq.net> <4133F368.6040306@tcq.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:41:28 -0500, Kraig Jones wrote: > There are no .arm files of any kind with the Windows drivers, but Google > found a file called isl3890 (91.8K) which I copied to > /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware/. http://prism54.org/firmware/ > I'm confused about where the "firmware" comes in. To me, "firmware" > means non-volatile memory, and shouldn't have to be loaded every time > the card starts up. The prism54 cards need to have their firmware loaded each time the card is initlized. For whatever reason, they designed the cards without any ROM. My best guess is cost savings and ease of updating. When the card looses power, it looses it's firmware. >From here, it would help to know what distribution you're using, as well as what version of hotplug is installed. (You'll have to ask your package manager, hotplug doens't have a --version option.) Do you have pcmcia-cs installed and started? pcmcia card services should be handeling your pc cards...not hotplug (I think this is still true in 2.6...haven't tried 2.6 on a laptop yet myself. My wireless cards are PCI cards.) If pcmcia-cs is running, you should see an event in syslog when you plug your card in. Try tail -f /var/log/syslog then plug your card in (or enter dmesg after plugging in your card.) That's about as much help as we can offer around here until we know what distribution. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us A password is like your underwear; Change it frequently, don't share it with others, and don't ask to borrow someone else's. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mcnixon at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:29:23 2004 From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] More GMail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think it would be better protection to have the backups span email account providers. Just in case Gmail is unavailable, or changes their service in some way. On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:02:14 -0500 (CDT), Adam Maloney wrote: > > A poor man's NAS:) I'd go raid 10 though. > > In case you lose a couple of accounts? > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erikerik at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:27:51 2004 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3DB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> References: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3DB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:13:39 -0500, Lansing, Dan wrote: > Remove nothing, if someone doesn't want something to be public record > they should never have submitted it to a public forum. I agree. After posting to the list, their message is going to be archived in many places other than the "official" list archives. Google and Gmane come to mind. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From drue at therub.org Tue Aug 31 10:42:16 2004 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> References: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20040831154216.GR84634@therub.org> Maybe we can use it as a TCLUG fundraiser. $1/byte removed! I bet the beer meeting attendance would be impressive if beer were free :) Hehe.. I had a CS professor in college that had a bunch of old usenet postings to alt.support.short. I bet when he was posting in the early 90's he never imagined they'd be archived and searchable 10+years later. Bottom line - gotta be very careful what you sign your name to. I don't see any reason not to munge email addresses, though. I mean, we don't need to help the spammers out here, do we? The other thing is - it's not feasible. Maybe on TCLUG it mostly is, but what if I post my personal TCLUG archive? I know periodically someone on a big mailing list (freebsd-questions comes to mind) will ask to remove a post - but those lists are archived in at least a dozen different places, not to mention private archives. dan On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 09:55:55AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > As people get back to school, I think it's a good time to put the following up > for discussion to see of the community has changed its mind. > > How do you want to handle the following requests: > > Please remove my post XXXXX from the mailing list archives > Please remove my email address from the post XXXX in the mailing list archives > > Comments? > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42 1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288 > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From scot at thinkunix.net Tue Aug 31 11:12:10 2004 From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 09:55:55AM -0500 References: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20040831111210.B21266@thinkunix.net> Bob Tanner wrote: > As people get back to school, I think it's a good time to put the following up > for discussion to see of the community has changed its mind. > > How do you want to handle the following requests: > > Please remove my post XXXXX from the mailing list archives > Please remove my email address from the post XXXX in the mailing list archives > > Comments? remove nothing. think before you post! I'm ok with munging email addresses to prevent further spam. -- scot _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Tue Aug 31 11:59:37 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <20040831111210.B21266@thinkunix.net> References: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> <20040831111210.B21266@thinkunix.net> Message-ID: <20040831165937.GE18063@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 13:01:25 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: References: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> Message-ID: <914f813c04083111014d88e52f@mail.gmail.com> I second this, and more because (and I've done this a few times) if the person is using lookout or some other email client that supports multiple accounts, it's happened that I misclick and select the wrong account to shoot off a quick question. In some situations, i.e. at work, I don't want my work email published anywhere. Granted, this is user error in any case, but this is really the only way I could see editing a post. That or by court order, of course. John On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:22:28 -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote: > If they want their e-mail address removed, I can understand that. But > name or the entire post? Nope, you sent it, now you should have to > live with the consequences... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Aug 31 12:50:10 2004 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:00 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <9E9331A490988842B21E7F7DC254C1D412E3DB@BPEXU3VM2.andersencorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Lansing, Dan wrote: > Remove nothing, if someone doesn't want something to be public record > they should never have submitted it to a public forum. When you post something, your address gets replaced in the archives with tclug-list@mn-linux.org. The only time your email address appears in the archives is in signatures, and when mail clients use it for quoting in replies. I don't put my address in my sig, so it's still my fault when it appears, plaintext, on the archives? Feel free to explain that one to me. Alas, though, other mailing list maintainers don't even bother to munge for the archives. Jima _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nassarmu at redconcepts.net Tue Aug 31 13:18:37 2004 From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4134C0FD.9090606@redconcepts.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jima wrote: | On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Lansing, Dan wrote: | |>Remove nothing, if someone doesn't want something to be public record |>they should never have submitted it to a public forum. | | | When you post something, your address gets replaced in the archives with | tclug-list@mn-linux.org. The only time your email address appears in the | archives is in signatures, and when mail clients use it for quoting in | replies. I don't put my address in my sig, so it's still my fault when it | appears, plaintext, on the archives? | Feel free to explain that one to me. when sending email to a public forum you should have no reason to expect your email to be replaced with "tclug-list@mn-linux.org". IF it does, great, kudos to the list admin. But i still think there should be no expectation of the sender email being kept a secret when sending email to a public forum. Even if that has been the case in the past. If need be use a disposable account, install spamassassin and implement harsher ACLs on your mail server. - -- Munir Nassar -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNMD9WlMewKPdsVURAsD/AJ45U/063kZrPxvlcD3nteTSOc+/mgCfdab8 pXeDH3rzt7UPDvmfjlVavaQ= =Dz5b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 13:52:19 2004 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <4134C0FD.9090606@redconcepts.net> References: <4134C0FD.9090606@redconcepts.net> Message-ID: <914f813c040831115228f04fc0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:18:37 -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > when sending email to a public forum you should have no reason to expect > your email to be replaced with "tclug-list@mn-linux.org". IF it does, > great, kudos to the list admin. True, but we're not talking about just any list. We're talking about our beloved TCLUG list. And just because others operate one way doesn't mean we must as well. > But i still think there should be no expectation of the sender email > being kept a secret when sending email to a public forum. Even if that > has been the case in the past. If need be use a disposable account, > install spamassassin and implement harsher ACLs on your mail server. I know in this crowd perhaps this is not common, but not everyone runs or has control over their own mail server. In my not-so-vast experience, not publishing my email address to crawlable archives of lists is a good way in avoiding spam, whether I run my own email server or not. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tom at 1337consulting.net Tue Aug 31 15:38:03 2004 From: tom at 1337consulting.net (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <4134E1AB.8080306@1337consulting.net> I'm going OT! My $.2, I have a fbsd box running vinum in raid 5 and had 2 of 7 drives fail w/o issue. Albeit the system slowed to a crawl but it stayed alive long enough for 2 hot spares to be put in place and all was well.. The machine is still online at ~190 days of uptime, this took place around day 30. It depends on how many drives, how much cache, and how well the RAID software is written regardless of whether it's hardware or software based. (I'd like to see if a windows software raid5 could loose 2 of 7 in an array and stay upright.) You are obviously never going to loose 2 of 3 drives in a 3 drive raid5 and walk away with your data.. -Tom smac@visi.com wrote: >It depends on whose raid controller you are using. > >If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail >replace the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss >a read or write. > >Sam. > >Quoting "jimstreit@northlans.com" : > > > >>With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your dead and looking >>for >>your backup, backup, backup. >> >>Quoting smac@visi.com: >> >> >> >>>The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive is a >>>"used" >>>drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off a lease. >>>I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished without >>> >>> >>a >> >> >>>problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your risk. >>> >>>Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. >>> >>>I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 >>>configuration, >>>this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. >>> >>>Sam. >>> >>> >>>Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>>I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to increase >>>>the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use for >>>> >>>> >>our >> >> >>>>research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, maxtor >>>>and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for new ones. >>>>Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are thinking of >>>>getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any good/bad >>>>experiences? Any good place to get such drives? >>>> >>>>Thanks >>>> >>>>Sreekumar >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------- >>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tom at 1337consulting.net Tue Aug 31 15:48:06 2004 From: tom at 1337consulting.net (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <4134E406.7070009@1337consulting.net> umm... I think what you mean is the equivalent to 1 drive is parity, distributed across all drives in the array. 1 drive dedicated to parity would leave you with a RAID0 if it died whereas in real-life you loose *any* drive and you run in degraded mode. -Tom Nate Carlson wrote: >On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, smac@visi.com wrote: > > >>It depends on whose raid controller you are using. >> >>If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail replace >>the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss a read or write. >> >> > >Huh? > >RAID5 means 1 parity drive, so if two drives fail and you don't have a hot >spare (or if the second drive fails before the spare has been fully >brought into service), you will (by definition) lose the array. Doesn't >matter who made the controllers. > >Or are you talking about RAID6, where you have two parity drives? > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tom at 1337consulting.net Tue Aug 31 15:54:45 2004 From: tom at 1337consulting.net (Tom Hudak) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Refurbished Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <4134E1AB.8080306@1337consulting.net> References: <1092836862.41235dfe876f8@my.visi.com> <1092838370.412363e2db94d@webmail.northlans.com> <1092852174.412399ce77c53@my.visi.com> <4134E1AB.8080306@1337consulting.net> Message-ID: <4134E595.8000101@1337consulting.net> I will correct myself - 1 drive lost, and while dead another drive was taken "removed" putting it offline, then reinstalled (no data loss occured on this drive.). The net effect was the raid5 lost 2 drives for only a couple seconds, but 1 of which was out for a couple hours. Tom Hudak wrote: > I'm going OT! > > My $.2, > > I have a fbsd box running vinum in raid 5 and had 2 of 7 drives fail > w/o issue. Albeit the system slowed to a crawl but it stayed alive > long enough for 2 hot spares to be put in place and all was well.. The > machine is still online at ~190 days of uptime, this took place around > day 30. It depends on how many drives, how much cache, and how well > the RAID software is written regardless of whether it's hardware or > software based. > (I'd like to see if a windows software raid5 could loose 2 of 7 in an > array and stay upright.) > > You are obviously never going to loose 2 of 3 drives in a 3 drive > raid5 and walk away with your data.. > > -Tom > > smac@visi.com wrote: > >> It depends on whose raid controller you are using. >> >> If it's a newer HP/Compaq controller you can have 2 drives fail >> replace the failed drives one at a time "HOT" and not miss a read or >> write. >> >> Sam. >> >> Quoting "jimstreit@northlans.com" : >> >> >> >>> With RAID 5 if 1 drive fails your OK, but if 2 fail, your dead and >>> looking >>> for >>> your backup, backup, backup. >>> >>> Quoting smac@visi.com: >>> >>> >>> >>>> The word "refurbished" is a misnomer; generally a refurbished drive >>>> is a >>>> "used" >>>> drive. In general the drive was returned with a machine coming off >>>> a lease. >>>> I'm still using both ATA and SCSI drives that were used/refurbished >>>> without >>>> >>> >>> a >>> >>> >>>> problem. Be aware that they may fail and understand that it's your >>>> risk. >>>> >>>> Backup, Backup, Backup, is the only thing I can say about used drives. >>>> >>>> I run 5 Seagate Barracuda SCSI drives in my Proliant in a RAID 5 >>>> configuration, >>>> this limits data loss if 1 or 2 drives fail. >>>> >>>> Sam. >>>> >>>> >>>> Quoting Sreekumar Kodakara : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I am on the look out for Ultra320 SCSI disk drives. This is to >>>>> increase >>>>> the storage capacity of one of our Itanium-2 servers, which we use >>>>> for >>>>> >>>> >>> our >>> >>> >>>>> research. I checked out at bizrate.com and found drives (73.4 GB, >>>>> maxtor >>>>> and seagate) starting at $130 for refurbished ones and $230 for >>>>> new ones. >>>>> Sisnce we have some constraints on purchases > $200, we are >>>>> thinking of >>>>> getting regurbished ones. Are refurbished drives reliable? Any >>>>> good/bad >>>>> experiences? Any good place to get such drives? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Sreekumar >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org >> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ben_b at ppdonline.com Tue Aug 31 17:35:44 2004 From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] OT any ASP developers out there? Message-ID: <4134FD40.AD12D1F3@ppdonline.com> I know this is WAAAaaaayyy off topic but I also know that there are some out of work developers out there that may like a project. Anyway, here goes... Do any of you have recommendations for an ASP developer or *ARE* any of you ASP developers (in the latter case I'd like to see examples of your work and/or references). A friend of mine owns a medical research company that needs some ASP work done (I would do it myself but I don't have the time to commit to the project right now). I'd like to track down a good, schedule conscious, not necessarily cheap but reasonably priced resource with the ability to work with scientists and understand scientific terms (medical research remember?) for her. If you are, or know of, a person or group that fits this mold please contact me off-list. Thank you, Ben. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From silwenae at silwenae.com Tue Aug 31 19:30:18 2004 From: silwenae at silwenae.com (Paul Cutler) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:53:01 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] Request for removal of posts (redux) In-Reply-To: <20040831165937.GE18063@wookimus.net> References: <20040831145555.GC3126@real-time.com> <20040831111210.B21266@thinkunix.net> <20040831165937.GE18063@wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1093998617.4896.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Well said, I agree with Chad! And I have 6 Gmail invites for those that read this email! Email me at silwenae@silwenae.com. First come first served. --Paul On Tue, 2004-08-31 at 11:59, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Bob wrote: > > How do you want to handle the following requests: > > > > Please remove my post XXXXX from the mailing list archives > > Agreed. Remove nothing. Make a prominent pronouncement that this list > is a Public Forum, and as such posts made to the list are given > unrestricted rights to publish the post to all members of the list and > to retaining and publish posts in the web-accessible archives. > > Any manual editing that must be done by a moderator or administrator > would be left up to their discretion. I don't wish to force a moderator > to act as editor to any Joe Average who requests it. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From clay at fandre.com Thu Aug 5 13:56:19 2004 From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre) Date: Mon Jan 17 12:54:20 2005 Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] August Meeting Message-ID: <20040805182615.GG15373@fandre.com> Next TCLUG Meeting When: Saturday August 7th, 2004, noon - 2pm Topic: User Mode Linux presented by Mike Hicks Where: University of Minnesota Electrical Engineering/Computer Science Building Room EE-CS 3-180 Map: http://onestop.umn.edu/Maps/EECSci/index.html Hope to see you there! _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-announce mailing list tclug-announce@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list