From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan 17 12:01:48 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:03:30 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Testing direct send
	tclug-list@shadowknight.real-time.com
Message-ID: <20050117180148.GA9643@real-time.com>


-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan 17 12:09:31 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:27:38 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Testing forward: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <20050117180931.GA9780@real-time.com>


-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
http://www.linuxjustworks.com             | Linux Just Works!         
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:36:59 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1105987019.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

print successfully to the Netgear print server
(and attached printers), then share that 
printer via Samba. Whether Samba is easy 
to understand and implement is another 
question for you, but I find it so.

Good luck,

Troy

>>> admin@lctn.org 04/24/03 10:48AM >>>
We are using a few netgear 110ps at a school. Each workstation has been
set to print to a netgear port. It worked fine for a year. Now, every few
days all workstations stop printing to the ps. The only way to resolve it,
so far, is to create a new port. Once this is done everyone is fine for a
few days, and then the problem occurs again.

Is there a (easy to understand and implement) Linux print server I can set
up to take place of the netgear boxes? Better yet, is there a simple fix
for this problem???



Raymond

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:37:46 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1105987066.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

> =====================================
> Message: 17

> what kind of zip drive?  internal IDE? external SCSI or external
> parallel port?
> 
> Setting up Iomega ZIP parallel port drive:
> 1. Zip drive uses /dev/sda4 so:         ln -s /dev/sda4 /dev/zip
> 
> 2. Add following to /etc/fstab:
> /dev/zip        /mnt/zip        vfat    noauto   0 0
> 
> 3. Uses ppa.o kernel module (parallel port adapter)
>         insmod /lib/modules/<kernel-ver>/scsi/pppa.o
> 
> 4. mkdir /mnt/zip
> 5. mount /mnt/zip; use the drive; when done umount /mnt/zip
> 

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:38:05 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1105987085.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

or Free solution to replace Exchange Server. I've found
free back ends with other free clients, proprietary plug-ins
to connect to free back ends and proprietary back ends.

Please tell me there's a way to do this... or point me
to some pages that confirm my fears. Better yet, a story
like "hey, I wanted to do that and here's what *we* did
anyway"

Why Outlook? Here are the requirements:
Calendar accessible from any Internet-connected computer
Ability to view others' calendars (at least busy/not busy)
Ability to schedule on behalf of other users
Shared contact list
Syncing contacts and schedule to PDA (preferably PalmOS)
Has a Windows client (other software mandates Windows on
the client side)

Kolab with Bynari's plug-in?
Bynari's server?
Some other wonderful thing?
What else can do this?

I'm leaning towards buying a license of Bynari's server.

Many thanks,
Chris Schumann


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:38:14 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1105987094.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Yet you have nothing positive to say about it. Why do you bother?

Sorry Yes I think Linux " ROCKS " Someone new may want to look at Libranet2.8 Its a great Distro...Apt-Get really helps stop that Dep.hell thing..



Now with that said lets take one thing at a time here, Database I will explain the way I built mine First..Which is using a GUI from filemakerPro. all I had to do was make my page layouts and then match everything up and send it to were ever I wanted by linking them very easy When I look at mysql there is alot of command line stuff or should I say scripting..And maybe I just dont no what a real database is...Can anyone help with this? or point me in the way I should be going?

__________________________________________________________________
McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network.
Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today!
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397

Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge.  Download Now!
http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:39:17 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1105987157.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

SMTP scans

The basic test (see URL above) should get incorporated into
various open-relay testing scripts.

cheers

john brown
chagres technologies, inc



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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:39:30 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1105987170.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

What are the client OSes and patch levels?
If WinNT/Win2K/WinXP clients, did you add 
those machines to the domain with 'smbpasswd'?
Are you using LDAP for authentication?
What does your smb.conf contain?

Good luck,

Troy

>>> admin@lctn.org 07/18/03 03:40PM >>>
I set up a redhat 8.0 box as a PDC using samba. For some reason users can
only logon from their workstations if I make them part of the "root"
group,
otherwise  they get a "wrong password" error, or "the domain password you
supplied is not correct". Any ideas what the quick fix is on this? I am
not
finding anything in the logs that tells me what the problem is.


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:39:57 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1105987196.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

/dev/hda => (hd0), etc.

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:41:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1105987302.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

I am not much of a Mandrake user (though I have a little used
install on another partition of the box that I am using to type
this), but the whole thing seems like a tempest in a teapot. If
you have a problem with with a company making money from Linux,
you shouldn't be using Mandrake anyway.  Mandrake is a company
that is trying to pull out of bankruptcy - if they can make a
little money this way, great.  It will be easy enough for anyone
who cares to stop the ads after the install, so big deal.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/ 
Never laugh at live dragons  |Dmitry's free,Jon's next? http://faircopyright.org

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 12:35:17 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:42:44 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.8.1105987364.10946.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

It seems like you figured this out, so exactly what is the issue you were having with installing? Maybe I misunderstand, but it seems like it was user error ala doskey.

Until I hit that last line, it appeared you were blaming Slack for this..

-L

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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Sat Jan  1 08:11:39 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:24 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Off topic but kind of neat!
Message-ID: <41D6AF9B.3070009@comcast.net>

Today JPL/Caltech Float Set to Launch on Rose Parade Mission, has a 
streaming web cam and you need RealPlayer to view it:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2004-298
Then click on "Floatcam" during the parade.
 Have fun and Happy New Year!
Jerry



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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Jan  1 12:14:11 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501011814.j01IEBQ15754@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Radeon 9700 Pro

I would like to sell my ATI Radeon 9700 Pro.  I'm asking $70 for it.  It has no problems and it is made by Crucial (the memory company).  I've had it for a little over a year now.  If anyone is interested let me know.

Seller Email address: gushie at ziggyco dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Jan  1 12:22:39 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501011822.j01IMdb16283@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Toshiba E740

I have a Toshiba E740 PDA for sale it has 802.11b wireless builtin and both SD and Compact Flash memory card slots.  Powered by a 400 MHz intel xscale processor with pocketPC 2003. It comes with two power cords a cradle and the expansion pack for usb and monitor hookup.  I'm asking $100 for it.

Seller Email address: gushie at ziggyco dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From dd-tclug at davedash.com  Sat Jan  1 22:38:34 2005
From: dd-tclug at davedash.com (Dave Dash)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] File name too long
Message-ID: <2930AF79-5C78-11D9-A37E-00039397F470@davedash.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
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From poptix at poptix.net  Sun Jan  2 06:54:49 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] File name too long
In-Reply-To: <2930AF79-5C78-11D9-A37E-00039397F470@davedash.com>
References: <2930AF79-5C78-11D9-A37E-00039397F470@davedash.com>
Message-ID: <20050102125449.GX23515@momentum.poptix.net>

fsck/scandisk the device, something got very unhappy (battery depleted digicam?)


On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 10:38:34PM -0600, Dave Dash wrote:
> This isn't Linux specific, but linux brains would fix it ;)  I have 
> an SD card and I can't read files from it because they are all jumbly: 
> 
> ls - l 
> 
> G.?????????             IMGP1079.JPG            O??u??????T??.?r??? 
> G.?????????             IMGP1080.JPG            O??u??????d??.?r??? 
> G.?????????             IMGP1083.JPG            O??u??????t??.?r??? 
> G.?????????             IMGP1084.JPG            O??u???????????.?r??? 
> G.?????????             IMGP1085.JPG            O??u???????????.?r??? 
> G.?????????             JPG.?????????           O??u???????.?r??? 
> G.?????????             JPG.?????????           O??u???????.?r??? 

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

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From chewie at wookimus.net  Sun Jan  2 21:11:48 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] File name too long
In-Reply-To: <2930AF79-5C78-11D9-A37E-00039397F470@davedash.com>
References: <2930AF79-5C78-11D9-A37E-00039397F470@davedash.com>
Message-ID: <20050103031148.GA26783@wookimus.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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From aladavs at dunwoody.edu  Sun Jan  2 22:08:43 2005
From: aladavs at dunwoody.edu (aladavs@dunwoody.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo mirror help.....
Message-ID: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>

I've been having problems with emerge. I had a very reliable mirror prior to formating my harddrive (which I did not write down). Can anyone please share one?

Thanks,

Dave 

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From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 00:24:56 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo mirror help.....
In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>
References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>
Message-ID: <fc40260f050102222418f84168@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 22:08:43 -0600, aladavs@dunwoody.edu
<aladavs@dunwoody.edu> wrote:
> I've been having problems with emerge. I had a very reliable mirror prior to formating my 
> harddrive (which I did not write down). Can anyone please share one?

This is what I use, and I get 1.5Mbit down from it regularly....

GENTOO_MIRRORS="ftp://gentoo.chem.wisc.edu/gentoo/"

-Erik

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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan  3 00:33:55 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
Message-ID: <20050103003355.A19831@thinkunix.net>

Anyone know of a good, inexpensive vendor for SUN memory (besides ebay)?
I have a Ultra5 that needs RAM.

some place local would be nice but online would be ok too.
-- 
scot

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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Mon Jan  3 00:56:26 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
Message-ID: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>

Metals Processing Center in Eagan. MPC, I am not shure the exact webb address. I bought some CENTON RAM sticks for about 10-15 dollars (Sun-Ultra IIi). BTW, they are only open Thursdays-Fridays. Well worth a visit, dude!


Dave


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From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan  3 01:36:48 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
In-Reply-To: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <41D8F610.70300@visi.com>

Materials Processing in Eagan

http://www.materialsprocessing.com

Check the hours they are open.

Sam.


SDALAN04@smumn.edu wrote:

>Metals Processing Center in Eagan. MPC, I am not shure the exact webb address. I bought some CENTON RAM sticks for about 10-15 dollars (Sun-Ultra IIi). BTW, they are only open Thursdays-Fridays. Well worth a visit, dude!
>
>
>Dave
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>  
>


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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 10:55:03 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:25 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] tclug member upload/contrib area WAS New TCLUG Classified
	Ad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0412312317150.5563-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0412312317150.5563-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200501031055.03547@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Friday 31 December 2004 11:20 pm, Brian Hurt wrote:
> I comment that I've been looking (not very hard, but I have been looking)
> for a place to toss my slides from last month presentation on Ocaml, so
> people could grab them if they're interested.

Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

Seen that at the bottom of every post?  It allows anyone to create an account 
and start contributing.

I'll post a more direct response to this later.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 10:56:58 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
In-Reply-To: <20050103003355.A19831@thinkunix.net>
References: <20050103003355.A19831@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <200501031056.58657@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Monday 03 January 2005 12:33 am, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> Anyone know of a good, inexpensive vendor for SUN memory (besides ebay)?
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
                                          Are you trying to make a joke? :-P

> I have a Ultra5 that needs RAM.
>
> some place local would be nice but online would be ok too.

Haven't bought much from them lately, but:

Workstations International
David Gicerich
612-512-3200

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 11:14:21 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web site
	(using plone)
Message-ID: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
From tommyj27 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 11:36:58 2005
From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web site
	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <1469cda20501030936349ab278@mail.gmail.com>

to be honest, i've looked at it and i'm not real sure what to do with
it. is it supposed to be like a wiki, a portal of some sort, a
combination of this, that, and the other thing? i tried joining just
now to see if that was the light at the end of the tunnel, but the
registration page seems to be broken.

<snip error>
 This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The errors were:
Error Details
Error Type
TypeError
Error Value
get_field() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
</snip>

Maybe I'm thinking too small, but I like the idea of a wiki where we
can post cliff-notes, tips, and whatnot, on xyz topic, for group
reference as well as our own. i always hate having to dig through
notebooks to find some obscure procedure i came up with 8 months ago,
something I could create and reference, with a minimum of fuss would
be nice.

the plone site seems very sluggish as well, is this a hardware/net
issue, a plone issue, or a Tom issue?

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 11:35:59 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo mirror help.....
In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>
References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>
Message-ID: <65293fcc05010309352b144721@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 22:08:43 -0600, aladavs@dunwoody.edu
<aladavs@dunwoody.edu> wrote:
> I've been having problems with emerge. I had a very reliable mirror prior to 
> formating my harddrive (which I did not write down). Can anyone please share >one?
I've been happy with:
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://gentoo.seren.com/gentoo/"

_______________________________________________
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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From jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com  Mon Jan  3 11:49:16 2005
From: jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com (Jason Reynolds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <1469cda20501030936349ab278@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501031749.j03HnJgU014780@ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com>

I am also receiving this error when trying to setup an account.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Johnson
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:37 AM
To: tanner@real-time.com; TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
site(using plone)

to be honest, i've looked at it and i'm not real sure what to do with
it. is it supposed to be like a wiki, a portal of some sort, a
combination of this, that, and the other thing? i tried joining just
now to see if that was the light at the end of the tunnel, but the
registration page seems to be broken.

<snip error>
 This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The errors
were:
Error Details
Error Type
TypeError
Error Value
get_field() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
</snip>

Maybe I'm thinking too small, but I like the idea of a wiki where we
can post cliff-notes, tips, and whatnot, on xyz topic, for group
reference as well as our own. i always hate having to dig through
notebooks to find some obscure procedure i came up with 8 months ago,
something I could create and reference, with a minimum of fuss would
be nice.

the plone site seems very sluggish as well, is this a hardware/net
issue, a plone issue, or a Tom issue?

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 



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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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_______________________________________________
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Mon Jan  3 11:57:53 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web site
	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050103175753.GB11891@wookimus.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
From myok at ogzr.org  Mon Jan  3 12:18:07 2005
From: myok at ogzr.org (Carl Patten)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:26 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <41D98C5F.8050009@ogzr.org>

Bob Tanner wrote:

>10 months after deployment, only 17 tclug members have signed up for the beta 
>testing of a community maintained web site for tclug. I think plone has been 
>a complete failure.
>
>  
>
<history snipped>

>If people want to contribute, lets get the tools in place to make it easy.
>
>Is plone not the right tool for tclug? 
>
>Do we need to look at another tool? Recommendations?
>
>Comments?
>
I'd forgotten all about it. 

The tool doesn't matter.  The content matters.  It draws people in and 
gets them excited.  I developed a collaborative knowledge base at work 
last year and had to keep adding content and reminding folks it was out 
there for a good six months before people started contributing 
regularly.  It took another six months to get buy-in from management.  
Now it's running itself. 

The discussion page 
http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/HowToGetInternalBuyInForTWiki was a 
great reality check on the amount of work it takes.

A few examples of how to do things in plone like set up a tclug package 
repository would help a lot.  I see a blank, generic site right now and 
don't have a clue where to go from there.

-- 
Carl


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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 12:17:42 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:27 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
Message-ID: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>

I know it's an evil Novell  ploy, but there's a decent command
reference card here: 
http://www.novell.com/community/linux/linux_ref_card.php [must
register for Novell Customer Communities]

Could be good for handing to newbs...

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Mon Jan  3 12:16:48 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:27 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] tclug member upload/contrib area WAS New TCLUG Classified
	Ad
In-Reply-To: <200501031055.03547@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0412312317150.5563-100000@localhost.localdomain>
	<200501031055.03547@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050103181648.GA4007@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 10:55:03AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote:
> On Friday 31 December 2004 11:20 pm, Brian Hurt wrote:
> > I comment that I've been looking (not very hard, but I have been
> > looking) for a place to toss my slides from last month presentation
> > on Ocaml, so people could grab them if they're interested.
> 
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

I just tried to create an account.  I get this message:

  This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The
  errors were: 

    Error Details
    Error Type 
    TypeError
    Error Value 
    get_field() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)

HTH, HAND.

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

_______________________________________________
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From dru at druswanderings.net  Mon Jan  3 12:30:32 2005
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:27 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob Tanner wrote:
|
| Is plone not the right tool for tclug?
|
| Do we need to look at another tool? Recommendations?
|
| Comments?
|

As a plone user myself, I believe it should work just fine for what we need.
Some admin stuff will need to be setup on the front end but after that it pretty
much runs itself.

The problem is that this particular instance was set up using the Debian
"testing" version from May.  Plone has since been backed out of Sarge due to it
being horribly broken in Sarge(as seen in the registration failures).  I believe
it has something to due with an incompatablilty with the version of Zope that is
in Sarge.  Hopefully they will get the mess fixed before Sarge goes to stable.

If we want to go ahead with a Plone setup, I suggest using the "experimental"
packages that can be gotten here[1].

The workflow can be as simple or as complex as you want.

Basically, each user has his/her own folder to create documents, files, etc.
Each person can then choose to publish said content to make it available to the
community at large contingent on Reviewer/Manager approval.  It's actually a
nifty little system that has served me well in several instances.

[1] http://plone.org/downloads/debian

- --
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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_______________________________________________
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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From rick at eworld3.net  Mon Jan  3 14:33:56 2005
From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:27 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41D9AC34.4040707@eworld3.net>

You have to answer a lot of questions,
but you don't have to be truthful ;-)

It has several pages of marketing stuff and quite a bit of reasonable 
info. I suppose if someone already took a week long "Getting started 
with Linux" class this would be a good tool to jog their memory.

I once recycled an old book called "Unix Fundamentals" (or something 
like that) that was about 3 inches thick.

John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> I know it's an evil Novell  ploy, but there's a decent command
> reference card here: 
> http://www.novell.com/community/linux/linux_ref_card.php [must
> register for Novell Customer Communities]
> 
> Could be good for handing to newbs...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 

-- 
Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Mon Jan  3 14:40:48 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:27 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
In-Reply-To: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <45839.63.228.57.26.1104784848.squirrel@63.228.57.26>

I haven't been to this place in a couple of years, but they were always
open Mon-Fri from 10 - 5 (daytime).  Also, they were called Materials
Processing Center... did they change the name recently?

> Metals Processing Center in Eagan. MPC, I am not shure the exact webb
> address. I bought some CENTON RAM sticks for about 10-15 dollars
> (Sun-Ultra IIi). BTW, they are only open Thursdays-Fridays. Well worth a
> visit, dude!
>
>
> Dave
>



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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan  3 14:50:32 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
In-Reply-To: <45839.63.228.57.26.1104784848.squirrel@63.228.57.26>;
	from gkrueger@cleosci.com on Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 02:40:48PM -0600
References: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>
	<45839.63.228.57.26.1104784848.squirrel@63.228.57.26>
Message-ID: <20050103145032.A31264@thinkunix.net>

Garrett Krueger wrote:
> I haven't been to this place in a couple of years, but they were always
> open Mon-Fri from 10 - 5 (daytime).  Also, they were called Materials
> Processing Center... did they change the name recently?
> 
> > Metals Processing Center in Eagan. MPC, I am not shure the exact webb
> > address. I bought some CENTON RAM sticks for about 10-15 dollars
> > (Sun-Ultra IIi). BTW, they are only open Thursdays-Fridays. Well worth a
> > visit, dude!

No it's still Materials Processing Center; only open Thru-Fri 11-5 now.
I haven't tried them yet.  Thanks for all the responses.
-- 
scot

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From veldy at veldy.net  Mon Jan  3 15:13:44 2005
From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Gentoo mirror help.....
In-Reply-To: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>
References: <6AB7D20645D1E345942B8D67BFFF8DCD01549377@web31.dunwoody.tec.mn.us>
Message-ID: <41D9B588.4080806@veldy.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 15:30:34 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
Message-ID: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>

My experience with dd is rather limited at this time  I've read the
man pages on dd, as well as doing some googling, but a few questions
still remain if someone can help.

I have a server that I need to replace the OS drive in.  My thoughts
were to do the following to replace it:

-Connect replacement drive to system.
-Boot to a live cd such as Knoppix
-Use dd to moves files from old drive to new using syntax similar to:

dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb


Seems fairly straightforward.  However, the questions I have are:

-Will dd copy over the partition information as well, or should I
create the partions by hand and then use dd on each partition such as:
 dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/hdb1

-Do I need to specify any block sizes or error correcting?


The cause for replacing the drive is that the root ( / ) partition has
marked itself as read-only.  Doing fsck's and rebooting is no longer
correcting the issue.  In doing a dd from one drive to the other, is
there a chance that whatever is marking the partition read-only will
be brought over as well?


Anything else that I seem to be overlooking?

Thanks.

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

_______________________________________________
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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan  3 15:55:53 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>;
	from sfertch@gmail.com on Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 03:30:34PM -0600
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>

Shawn Fertch wrote:
> Seems fairly straightforward.  However, the questions I have are:
> 
> -Will dd copy over the partition information as well, or should I
> create the partions by hand and then use dd on each partition such as:
>  dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/hdb1

Yes, dd is a just a raw image copy of the drive.  It will copy the boot
sector, partition table, and all data just as it exists on the current
drive.  You should dd to the same sized disk, preferrably one with
matching geometry (cylinder, heads, sectors/track) values.  You can dd 
a smaller drive to a larger one but that will make the larger drive
effectively be the size of the smaller one.  Waste of space.

> -Do I need to specify any block sizes or error correcting?

I never have when I've copied drives and they have always worked just
fine.  I've always dd'd to similar sized drives with matching geometry
though.

> The cause for replacing the drive is that the root ( / ) partition has
> marked itself as read-only.  Doing fsck's and rebooting is no longer
> correcting the issue.  In doing a dd from one drive to the other, is
> there a chance that whatever is marking the partition read-only will
> be brought over as well?

Since dd is just a raw image copy, when you dd to the new drive, your
root partition will still be marked read-only.  I haven't run across
a root partition marking itself read-only before.  I have to believe
this can be corrected with enough googling.

I have to throw this out there:  you do have backups you can restore
from, right? :P
-- 
scot

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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Jan  3 16:10:49 2005
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0501031609040.17021@Rooster>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote:

>> -Do I need to specify any block sizes or error correcting?
> I never have when I've copied drives and they have always worked just
> fine.  I've always dd'd to similar sized drives with matching geometry
> though.

That's true, but I would add that butting in a bs=1024K will make dd much, 
much faster (I use dd to make a backup of my laptop hdd once a week, and 
I've timed it a few times Just For Fun).


-Yaron

--

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 16:19:22 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <914f813c05010314196cc7f96f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:55:53 -0600, Scot Jenkins <scot@thinkunix.net> wrote:
> Shawn Fertch wrote:
> > The cause for replacing the drive is that the root ( / ) partition has
> > marked itself as read-only.  Doing fsck's and rebooting is no longer
> > correcting the issue.  In doing a dd from one drive to the other, is
> > there a chance that whatever is marking the partition read-only will
> > be brought over as well?
> 
> Since dd is just a raw image copy, when you dd to the new drive, your
> root partition will still be marked read-only.  I haven't run across
> a root partition marking itself read-only before.  I have to believe
> this can be corrected with enough googling.

I agree. Scot, have you tried booting off a bootable Linux CD/floppy
and attempted to diagnose the issue there? If not, I would recommend
you take a look at that first. I think Knoppix and every other major
bootable Linux CD will have some sort of ext2/3, reiser, and xfs utils
included.

> I have to throw this out there:  you do have backups you can restore
> from, right? :P

I was going to ask that too :)

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 16:15:41 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c05010314154c4c6d05@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:30:34 -0600, Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a server that I need to replace the OS drive in.  My thoughts
> were to do the following to replace it:
> 
> -Connect replacement drive to system.
> -Boot to a live cd such as Knoppix
> -Use dd to moves files from old drive to new using syntax similar to:
> 
> dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
> 
> Seems fairly straightforward.  However, the questions I have are:
> 
> -Will dd copy over the partition information as well, or should I
> create the partions by hand and then use dd on each partition such as:
>  dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/hdb1

As specified, yes, it will copy partition information over, including
the read-only / partition. I would do as you state here, partition by
partition, and create/format partitions on the new drive first.

I might even take it a step further and just use cp (with appropriate
flags to preserve attributes, permissions, f/m/atimes, etc.) . It
wouldn't take that much longer.

> -Do I need to specify any block sizes or error correcting?

I've never had to specify block sizes for it to work. I usually will
say 2k or 512b though, as I usually use dd to pull backup/forensic
images of drives, and there's a bit of funkiness with how dd deals
with a drive where the selected bs is not a divisor (evenly divides)
of the drive capacity

> The cause for replacing the drive is that the root ( / ) partition has
> marked itself as read-only.  Doing fsck's and rebooting is no longer
> correcting the issue.  In doing a dd from one drive to the other, is
> there a chance that whatever is marking the partition read-only will
> be brought over as well?

I think dd would carry that over for sure. Of course, that depends on
how/why it's being marked read-only. Not that stating the obvious
helps out at all...

> Anything else that I seem to be overlooking?

Seems logical to me...

Good luck.

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From rick at eworld3.net  Mon Jan  3 16:30:34 2005
From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41D9C78A.4020705@eworld3.net>

Shawn Fertch wrote:
> The cause for replacing the drive is that the root ( / ) partition has
> marked itself as read-only.  Doing fsck's and rebooting is no longer
> correcting the issue.  In doing a dd from one drive to the other, is
> there a chance that whatever is marking the partition read-only will
> be brought over as well?

Could you just install the OS on the new disk, mount the old disk and 
just copy over the directories that you need (/etc, /home).

Then you could try to "fix" the old disk (and learn) without worry. If 
you can find out *why* the partition is marked read-only then I think 
fsck can help you. I don't remember how much diagnostic info fsck gives, 
but I know it can be cryptic. Post it and let's see!

--
Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff

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From nate at refried.org  Mon Jan  3 16:34:59 2005
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
In-Reply-To: <20050103145032.A31264@thinkunix.net>
References: <200501030656261385d6a778@mail.smumn.edu>
	<45839.63.228.57.26.1104784848.squirrel@63.228.57.26>
	<20050103145032.A31264@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <20050103223459.GA12680@refried.org>

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 02:50:32PM -0600, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> No it's still Materials Processing Center; only open Thru-Fri 11-5 now.
> I haven't tried them yet.  Thanks for all the responses.

I would recommend calling before driving over there.  I've noticed their
selection hasn't been very good in recent months.

Nate

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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 16:40:34 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web site
	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <20050103175753.GB11891@wookimus.net>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<20050103175753.GB11891@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <200501031640.34423@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Monday 03 January 2005 11:57 am, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Regarding Plone, I had once commented that in order to edit the site, we
> needed to provide permissions to the members that DID sign up. ?I
> requested, for example, to be given permissions to edit the main page,
> but I never received notification that this had been granted.

Ein is plone admin!

Ein you lazy European, grant Chewie access!

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 16:39:29 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web site
	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <1469cda20501030936349ab278@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<1469cda20501030936349ab278@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501031639.29705@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Monday 03 January 2005 11:36 am, Thomas Johnson wrote:
> the plone site seems very sluggish as well, is this a hardware/net
> issue, a plone issue, or a Tom issue?

Hardware, sparc and we all know how fast sparc is, right Jima :-P

# cat /proc/cpuinfo
cpu             : Texas Instruments, Inc. - SuperSparc-(II)
fpu             : SuperSparc on-chip FPU
promlib         : Version 3 Revision 2
prom            : 2.22
type            : sun4m
ncpus probed    : 2
ncpus active    : 2
Cpu0Bogo        : 74.75
Cpu1Bogo        : 74.95
MMU type        : TI Viking/MXCC
contexts        : 65536
nocache total   : 4194304
nocache used    : 676352
CPU0            : online
CPU1            : online

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From nate at refried.org  Mon Jan  3 16:40:22 2005
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050103224022.GB12680@refried.org>

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 03:30:34PM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote:
> The cause for replacing the drive is that the root ( / ) partition has
> marked itself as read-only.  Doing fsck's and rebooting is no longer
> correcting the issue.  

What kind of file system is /?  ext3?  I had a case a few weeks ago
where the root file system would revert back to read-only because it had
trouble writing to the journal.  It filled the dmesg output with lots of
ext3 error messages.

I ended up booting with a rescue disk, removing the journal with some
combination of tune2fs, mounting the file system and removing the
.journal file.  After recreating the journal with tune2fs, the system
hasn't given me any more problems (yet).

Nate

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From tanner at mn-linux.org  Mon Jan  3 16:47:42 2005
From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Virtualized Linux Servers: Testers needed for FC2 and FC3
Message-ID: <200501031647.45784@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 16:38:17 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	=?iso-8859-1?q?site=09?=(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
Message-ID: <200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Monday 03 January 2005 12:30 pm, The Wandering Dru wrote:
> As a plone user myself, I believe it should work just fine for what we
> need. Some admin stuff will need to be setup on the front end but after
> that it pretty much runs itself.

Volunteering to admin tclug's plone? :-)

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 16:56:37 2005
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Samba 3.0.10 joining Windows 20003 ADS
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a041228183055023a3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e3a54b0204122817183b6b8916@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b0204122817216c643a01@mail.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a041228183055023a3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b0205010314564b012347@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:30:02 -0600, Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com> wrote:
> Zibs, are you starting winbind prior to starting samba?  I haven't
> tried that level of samba to connect to Win2k3 boxes yet.

I've started it up before smbd and after smbd with the same results.
According to the docs, you're supposed to join the domain with
windbind and smbd/nmdb not running.


> I'm also assuming that you're connecting via LDAP if I read it correctly?

Ummmm...it's connecting however samba wants to connect when SECURITY = ADS. :)


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
 A password is like your underwear; Change it
 frequently, don't share it with others, and
     don't ask to borrow someone else's.

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From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Jan  3 17:02:14 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <20041229112425.A9710@thinkunix.net>
References: <200412271509.iBRF9bn00809@crusader.real-time.com>
	<1104321782.9627.4.camel@bigtime>
	<20041229112425.A9710@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <200501031702.14855@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Wednesday 29 December 2004 11:24 am, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> Bob - How about a "contrib" directory for such a thing?

See my thread on TCLUG community maintained web site, I think a contrib area 
could (should?) be handled by a tool like plone or wiki.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From jima at beer.tclug.org  Mon Jan  3 17:28:14 2005
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site (using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031639.29705@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501031722310.14658-100000@beer.tclug.org>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Bob Tanner wrote:
> On Monday 03 January 2005 11:36 am, Thomas Johnson wrote:
> > the plone site seems very sluggish as well, is this a hardware/net
> > issue, a plone issue, or a Tom issue?
> 
> Hardware, sparc and we all know how fast sparc is, right Jima :-P

 I have no idea what you're talking about.  I'm only rebuilding the 
entirety of FC2 errata for sparc.  Started yesterday, and I'm at about 
23%.  Currently chugging away on glibc, yay.
 That being said, I'm using a 333MHz UltraSPARC II, not a pair of 75MHz 
SuperSPARCs.  Personally I'd be loathe to generate dynamic web content on 
anything less than an UltraSPARC.  But, to each his own.

     Jima


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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Mon Jan  3 17:44:21 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: SUN memory
Message-ID: <200501032344211985d6c8d7@mail.smumn.edu>

Don't hate doode, they have the best selection for what he's looking for. If you want great new stuff, you head over to MicroCenter or what ever. MPC rocks.......(stop hatin......


Dave


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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Mon Jan  3 17:47:25 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
Message-ID: <200501032347256785d6c8f5@mail.smumn.edu>

I'd think a TCLUG yearbook would be kinda COOL. But at the same time, I'd be scared to know what some of you look like?

Scary Davy


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From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan  3 17:49:59 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:29 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <41D9AC34.4040707@eworld3.net>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
	<41D9AC34.4040707@eworld3.net>
Message-ID: <41D9DA27.7090706@visi.com>

I have the Sams Unix unleashed book it to is about 3 inches thick,
<snip>

> I once recycled an old book called "Unix Fundamentals" (or something 
> like that) that was about 3 inches thick.

</snip>
But what a nice book to have.

Sam.

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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Mon Jan  3 18:07:23 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
In-Reply-To: <200501032347256785d6c8f5@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <200501032347256785d6c8f5@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <41D9DE3B.1080104@comcast.net>

SDALAN04@smumn.edu wrote:

>I'd think a TCLUG yearbook would be kinda COOL. But at the same time, I'd be scared to know what some of you look like?
>
>Scary Dave
>
I think we all look human, maybe!

Jerry W



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From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Mon Jan  3 18:13:57 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
Message-ID: <20050103181357.00006acd@ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 12:30:32 -0600
The Wandering Dru <dru@druswanderings.net> wrote:

<snip>

> If we want to go ahead with a Plone setup, I suggest using the
> "experimental" packages that can be gotten here[1].

If anyone cares, I have a Zope 2.7.3 / Plone 2.0.5 (latest greatest)
setup from a source build on a Debian box running dual 2.8 Ghz Xeon's
(it's my colo'd hosting box).  The zope/plone isn't being used for
much right now (one TCLUG'r has an account on it).  

I'm not necessarily volunteering to admin the plone part of it as I
haven't used Plone a great deal, but if someone's interested....

Josh

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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Mon Jan  3 18:18:36 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <41D9DA27.7090706@visi.com>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>	<41D9AC34.4040707@eworld3.net>
	<41D9DA27.7090706@visi.com>
Message-ID: <41D9E0DC.1030201@comcast.net>

Sam MacDonald wrote:

> I have the Sams Unix unleashed book it to is about 3 inches thick,
> <snip>
>
>> I once recycled an old book called "Unix Fundamentals" (or something 
>> like that) that was about 3 inches thick.
>
>
> </snip>
> But what a nice book to have.
>
> Sam

One site I found was: http://www.linuxcommand.org/

Jerry W



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From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 18:24:27 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Questions on dd
In-Reply-To: <20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>
References: <67f3084a05010313302e36d2c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050103155553.B17651@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <67f3084a050103162456a7a9d6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:55:53 -0600, Scot Jenkins <scot@thinkunix.net> wrote:
 
> I have to throw this out there:  you do have backups you can restore
> from, right? :P

Yes.  In a sense...  The box is #2 in a load balanced environment. 
The primary box is backed up, and the second is not, but the data (non
OS) areas are rsync'd between each other.  Not the best scenario, but
better than nothing.  Not my design I'll say and I'm not entirely
happy with it.

As to the read-only filesystem, I tried running multiple fsck's
against it, and the first few would generate erros, but I don't recall
what they were.  It's an ext3 filesystem, on an RHELv3 box.  For the
first few times, I was able to drop the box into single user mode, run
an fsck against the disk, and it would find and correct errors.  Now,
the filesystem is saying it's okay with no errors, yet I can't get it
to get out of read-only mode even with a reboot.

Instead of doing a dd, in this case would it be better to partition
the drive and do a cpio from partition to partition as someone
mentioned?


-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

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From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu  Mon Jan  3 19:59:22 2005
From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Virtualized Linux Servers: Testers needed for FC2 and
	FC3
In-Reply-To: <200501031647.45784@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031647.45784@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050103195922.A23061@baker.space.umn.edu>

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 04:47:42PM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote:
<snip>
> 
> I'm looking for 5-10 tclug members to help us test. First come first serve. 
I'll do it, if you have too many takers already.

Jim Crumley

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/ 
Never laugh at live dragons  |

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From dru at druswanderings.net  Mon Jan  3 22:48:22 2005
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site (using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>	<41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
	<200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <41DA2016.5030602@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob Tanner wrote:
|
| Volunteering to admin tclug's plone? :-)
|

I could certainly help out but if I'm the most experienced plone user
we've got, we may be in trouble. 8-)

- --
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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OpPvEs4aVdhQHPLI63h/cU0=
=Ofc5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From jack at jacku.com  Mon Jan  3 23:21:29 2005
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	=?iso-8859-1?q?site=09?=(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
	<200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>

On Monday 03 January 2005 04:38 pm, Bob Tanner wrote:
> On Monday 03 January 2005 12:30 pm, The Wandering Dru wrote:
> > As a plone user myself, I believe it should work just fine for what we
> > need. Some admin stuff will need to be setup on the front end but after
> > that it pretty much runs itself.
>
> Volunteering to admin tclug's plone? :-)

As Chief Cook and Bottle washer of TCZPUG, I will gladly help administer a 
TCLUG Plone site. But I would suggest that the site be rebuilt using the 
current Zope and Plone versions. 

If there is no topic/speaker for the February TCLUG meeting I will gladly give 
a brief overview of Plone and how users can interact with a Plone site if 
people are interested.


-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack@jacku.com

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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Mon Jan  3 23:56:27 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure Re: J. Ungerleider
Message-ID: <200501040556279885d6d1bb@mail.smumn.edu>

It all started by browsing your site, well at least for me anyways (@Ungerleider) I would really like to hear you talk on the subject(Plone/Zope).



Ex-student

Dave


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From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Tue Jan  4 07:37:34 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	site	(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<41D98F48.30201@druswanderings.net>
	<200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>
Message-ID: <20050104073734.000050f4@ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:21:29 -0600
Jack Ungerleider <jack@jacku.com> wrote:

> As Chief Cook and Bottle washer of TCZPUG, I will gladly help
> administer a  TCLUG Plone site. But I would suggest that the site be
> rebuilt using the  current Zope and Plone versions. 

As mentioned in a previous post, I have a Zope 2.7.3 / Plone 2.0.5
install already running on my hosting server, I'd certainly be willing
to setup an administrative account for TCLUG.

Josh

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From jima at beer.tclug.org  Tue Jan  4 09:12:40 2005
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
In-Reply-To: <200501032347256785d6c8f5@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501040912100.14658-100000@beer.tclug.org>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 SDALAN04@smumn.edu wrote:
> I'd think a TCLUG yearbook would be kinda COOL. But at the same time, 
> I'd be scared to know what some of you look like?

 Well, you've already met me, so it can't get *that* much worse.

     Jima


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From shanson at cruiskeen.com  Tue Jan  4 09:49:13 2005
From: shanson at cruiskeen.com (Steve Hanson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DABAF9.8090907@cruiskeen.com>

John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> I know it's an evil Novell  ploy, but there's a decent command
> reference card here: 
> http://www.novell.com/community/linux/linux_ref_card.php [must
> register for Novell Customer Communities]
> 
> Could be good for handing to newbs...
> 
You might also want to look at the one-page Linux manual


http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~squadron/


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From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 10:03:45 2005
From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (whiterabbit1)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] semi-ot: so many printer options!
In-Reply-To: <41D371C2.8050001@eworld3.net>
References: <27e6356a0412291808360e5b05@mail.gmail.com>
	<41D371C2.8050001@eworld3.net>
Message-ID: <307a337f05010408034f864df2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:10:58 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff <rick@eworld3.net> wrote:
> I don't know what they cost these days but I've been pretty happy with
> my HP LaserJet 1100. I bought it as a refurb about 5 years ago and it's
> always worked fine under Linux. A year or so ago it started pulling in
> more than one sheet of paper though but I have not taken it in for
> adjustment.
> 

Rick,

Pulling more than one sheet is a know issue for that printer.   Search
on HP's site.  They will send you fix it kits for free.

_______________________________________________
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Jan  4 10:48:58 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <41DABAF9.8090907@cruiskeen.com>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DABAF9.8090907@cruiskeen.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501041047330.12299@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Steve Hanson wrote:

> You might also want to look at the one-page Linux manual
>
> http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~squadron/


Nice.  I'll have to try that one.  I've been using one that I got from our 
supercomputing institute.  It's the .doc file here:

http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/PubH5385/msi/

It folds in thirds (approximately) and is convenient.  The newbies liked 
it OK.

Mike

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From danieljpost at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 11:21:43 2005
From: danieljpost at gmail.com (Daniel J. Post)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501041047330.12299@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DABAF9.8090907@cruiskeen.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501041047330.12299@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <c2030dfc0501040921ab50415@mail.gmail.com>

Man, it just HAS to be considered bad Karma to post a link to a .doc
file on a LUG mailing list.

You're Fired!

[relax I'm kidding]

[snip]
> http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/PubH5385/msi/
> 
> It folds in thirds (approximately) and is convenient.  The newbies liked
> it OK.

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Jan  4 12:31:29 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:30 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux Command Reference Card
In-Reply-To: <c2030dfc0501040921ab50415@mail.gmail.com>
References: <914f813c05010310177258617e@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DABAF9.8090907@cruiskeen.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501041047330.12299@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<c2030dfc0501040921ab50415@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501041226220.12299@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Daniel J. Post wrote:

> Man, it just HAS to be considered bad Karma to post a link to a .doc 
> file on a LUG mailing list.

Ooops -- I should have converted it to PDF!  OK, here you go:

http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/PubH5385/msi/unix-ref-card.pdf

Believe me, it wasn't my idea to use Word to make that thing - I didn't 
make it - blame the Minnesota Supercomputing Institute for that!


>> http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/PubH5385/msi/
>>
>> It folds in thirds (approximately) and is convenient.  The newbies liked
>> it OK.

You have to print duplex, turning on the short side of the page.

Mike

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From tanner at real-time.com  Tue Jan  4 16:46:31 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: Complete failure to INSTALL plone was Re: [TCLUG] Complete failure on
	a TCLUG community maintained web =?iso-8859-1?q?site=09?=(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>
Message-ID: <200501041646.32135@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Monday 03 January 2005 11:21 pm, Jack Ungerleider wrote:
> As Chief Cook and Bottle washer of TCZPUG, I will gladly help administer a
> TCLUG Plone site. But I would suggest that the site be rebuilt using the
> current Zope and Plone versions.

Following these directions:

http://plone.org/downloads/debian

# apt-cache policy plone
plone:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 2.0.4-1
  Version Table:
     2.0.4-1 0
        500 http://ftp.mn-linux.org unstable/main Packages
     2.0.3-1 0
        500 http://nathan.faho.rwth-aachen.de ./ Packages

Hmm, official debian unstable has newer version then the official plone 
repository?

Let's try official debian package.

# apt-get install plone   
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<snip>
plone: Depends: zope-cmfplone (= 2.0.4-1) but it is not going to be installed

Seems like a grave error to me. But:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=plone

No  bug report for this problem.

Remove the http://nathan.faho.rwth-aachen.de ./ Packages entry, try again.

# apt-cache policy plone
plone:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 2.0.4-1
  Version Table:
     2.0.4-1 0
        500 http://ftp.mn-linux.org unstable/main Packages

# apt-get install plone   
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<snip>
plone: Depends: zope-cmfplone (= 2.0.4-1) but it is not going to be installed

# su - tanner
$ reportbug plone

Put deb http://nathan.faho.rwth-aachen.de/debian/zope/ ./ back into 
sources.list.

# apt-get update              
# apt-get install plone=2.0.3-1
<snip>
plone: Depends: zope-cmfarchetypes (>= 1.3.0) but it is not going to be 
installed
Depends: zope-cmfplone (>= 2.0.3) but it is not going to be installed
Depends: zope-ploneerrorreporting but it is not going to be installed

Official(?) packages borked too!

So, this makes me think plone -isn't- the solution since there aren't 
stable(ish) packages for debian.
-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From dru at druswanderings.net  Tue Jan  4 17:05:45 2005
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: Complete failure to INSTALL plone was Re: [TCLUG] Complete failure
	on a TCLUG community maintained web site (using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501041646.32135@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>	<200501031638.18415@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>	<200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>
	<200501041646.32135@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <41DB2149.2020704@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob Tanner wrote:
| On Monday 03 January 2005 11:21 pm, Jack Ungerleider wrote:
|
|>As Chief Cook and Bottle washer of TCZPUG, I will gladly help administer a
|>TCLUG Plone site. But I would suggest that the site be rebuilt using the
|>current Zope and Plone versions.
|
|
| Following these directions:
|
| http://plone.org/downloads/debian
|
| # apt-cache policy plone
| plone:
|   Installed: (none)
|   Candidate: 2.0.4-1
|   Version Table:
|      2.0.4-1 0
|         500 http://ftp.mn-linux.org unstable/main Packages
|      2.0.3-1 0
|         500 http://nathan.faho.rwth-aachen.de ./ Packages
|

<snipped a bunch of info>

I just installed 2.0.3 from the nathan.faho.etc... repository yesterday on a
sarge box.  It should work.  As far as I know that repo has all the necessary
depends as well.  Somethin's goofy.


- --
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 18:11:16 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] semi-ot: so many printer options!
In-Reply-To: <307a337f05010408034f864df2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41db30ac.1f6c60d9.0c0a.04fc@smtp.gmail.com>

Ditto. I've used that kit on at least 10 of those printers. Fixes the
problem every time. It is a hardware issue, a pad or something inside wears
out. 

Chris 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of whiterabbit1
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:04 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] semi-ot: so many printer options!

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:10:58 -0600, Rick Meyerhoff <rick@eworld3.net> wrote:
> I don't know what they cost these days but I've been pretty happy with 
> my HP LaserJet 1100. I bought it as a refurb about 5 years ago and 
> it's always worked fine under Linux. A year or so ago it started 
> pulling in more than one sheet of paper though but I have not taken it 
> in for adjustment.
> 

Rick,

Pulling more than one sheet is a know issue for that printer.   Search
on HP's site.  They will send you fix it kits for free.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test TCLUG's
potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta
test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery tclug-list@mn-linux.org
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From natecars at real-time.com  Tue Jan  4 22:29:57 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: PXE booting over a wireless bridge?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501042228170.15643@conformity.technicality.org>

Hey all,

I'm looking at making my MythTV frontends diskless (get rid of the
noise-making parts!); it'll work fine for the wired boxes, but I'm not
sure about the wireless one. I know that the prism54 cards I'm using don't
support PXE booting, but does anyone happen to know if it'd work to use a
standard PXE-supporting NIC with a wireless bridge? That'd make life a bit
easier.  :)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


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From jack at jacku.com  Tue Jan  4 23:28:51 2005
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: Complete failure to INSTALL plone was Re: [TCLUG] Complete
	failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	=?iso-8859-1?q?site=09?=(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501041646.32135@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<200501032321.29795.jack@jacku.com>
	<200501041646.32135@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <200501042328.52292.jack@jacku.com>

On Tuesday 04 January 2005 04:46 pm, Bob Tanner wrote:
<snipped whole bunch of apt-get message stuff>

I was going write some flame bait about how the debian packagers don't 
understand Zope and split things up that should be left together. But I 
thought better of it. ;-)

Suggested solution to your problem: Go to Plone.org and download the tarball 
for Plone-2.0.5 and install that. Email me direct if you want some help. Also 
if you're having problems getting Zope installed, do the same thing. Make 
sure Python 2.3.4 (or 2.3.3) is installed. Then go to zope.org and download 
the standard tarball and install that. (obviously, or maybe not, you'll need 
to install Zope before installing Plone.)

FWIW the packages tend to lag behind the "official" releases because they are 
maintained by people, I believe, who are outside the main Plone team. I've 
given up on using RPMs with SuSE. They were good for a while but have started 
to drop behind again recently.

Contact me off list if you want some help.

-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack@jacku.com

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From smac at visi.com  Tue Jan  4 23:04:27 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: 64 bit System
Message-ID: <41DB755B.8060506@visi.com>

I said I would keep the list up to date with the new system I've built.
I've installed XP32 and XP64, multi boot configuration.
I need to do a little more reading before I install Fedora Core 3 x64.

Hardware;
Motherboard: Gigabyte K8NS Ultra 939
    (nforce 3, DDR400+, AGP8x, USB2, Dual LAN, SATA, Audio, 1394b)
Processor:      AMD 64 3000+ 939 pin 1.8GHz
Memory:        512MB DDR 400
Video:            Nvidia GForce 5500 FX
Power:            400 Watt
2 @ 30gig ATA133 drives
1 @ 20gig ATA 100 drive
1 @ CDRW
USB 3.5" Floppy
USB JumpDrive
USB Optical Mouse
PS/2 Keyboard

General;
The nice thing about this motherboard is the drivers (both XP32 and XP64 
bit) are available.
Gigabyte has the 64bit Linux drivers as well 
(NFORCE-Linux-x86_64-1.0-0292-pkg1.run)
Fedora Core 3 x64 should work with this motherboard from what I've read.

I had to install the drivers from CDROM for XP32 after the installation 
(LAN did not work until I installed the drivers.)
I down loaded the XP64 bit drivers from the Nvidia website, I had them 
on my JumpDrive ;-) so USB works without the drivers installed in XP64.
I can't test the SATA or the 1394b as I don't have either.
LAN, Audio, AGP8x, and LAN work great under the M$ operating systems.

Software;
I've installed Call of Duty and found it's faster and looks better under 
XP64
The catch (from reading) with Windows software is the software can NOT 
have a 16bit installer or installer front-end.
16bit software will not work in XP64. Be sure your software installers 
do NOT have a 16bit installer if you want to use it with XP64.

I'll do more software testing an update the list.



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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Tue Jan  4 23:25:08 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: 64 bit System
In-Reply-To: <41DB755B.8060506@visi.com>
References: <41DB755B.8060506@visi.com>
Message-ID: <41DB7A34.6020600@cleosci.com>

Cool!  Thanks for the info!

Sam MacDonald wrote:

> I said I would keep the list up to date with the new system I've built.
> I've installed XP32 and XP64, multi boot configuration.
> I need to do a little more reading before I install Fedora Core 3 x64.

snipped


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From thurianknight at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 08:19:15 2005
From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: PXE booting over a wireless bridge?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501042228170.15643@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501042228170.15643@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <7bdea6e305010506197e019fb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 22:29:57 -0600 (CST), natecars@real-time.com
<natecars@real-time.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I'm looking at making my MythTV frontends diskless (get rid of the
> noise-making parts!); it'll work fine for the wired boxes, but I'm not
> sure about the wireless one. I know that the prism54 cards I'm using don't
> support PXE booting, but does anyone happen to know if it'd work to use a
> standard PXE-supporting NIC with a wireless bridge? That'd make life a bit
> easier.  :)

I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work. Obviously any
wireless access point will support dhcp broadcast/requests, and the
rest of the image download process uses tcp anyway.

-- 
Dave Sherman
MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
[Insert witty .sig here.]

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From natecars at real-time.com  Wed Jan  5 09:15:49 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Semi-OT: PXE booting over a wireless bridge?
In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e305010506197e019fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501042228170.15643@conformity.technicality.org>
	<7bdea6e305010506197e019fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501050915250.21454@enchanter.real-time.com>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Dave Sherman wrote:
> I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work. Obviously any wireless
> access point will support dhcp broadcast/requests, and the rest of the
> image download process uses tcp anyway.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too, but there's something at the 
back of my brain bothering me about it.. guess I'll just have to give it a 
shot!

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 10:41:29 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Cups, shorewall, and Netgear PS oh my!
In-Reply-To: <41DB2149.2020704@druswanderings.net>
Message-ID: <41dc18c2.42a8f886.5bba.3c68@smtp.gmail.com>

We have several servers running Cups, Fedora Core2/3, and printing to
various printers on a variety of Netgear printservers, 3com print servers,
and Savin copiers. All of these are printed to via their LPD interface and
are RAW queues.  All of the Netgears recently stopped working if we are
running Shorewall > 2.0. The Policy and Rules in Shorewall allow ALL from
LOC to FW and vice versa. Shutting off shorewall immeadiately allows both
web access to the print servers and printing access. (In fact queued up Jobs
start spitting out) We have 1 site with Shorewall 1.4 (which is about to go
EOL) where the Netgear still works. No other print servers seem affected.
Anybody seem anything like this? 

TIA,

Chris Smith


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From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Jan  5 13:00:41 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: Complete failure to INSTALL plone was Re: [TCLUG] Complete
	failure on a TCLUG community maintained web
	=?iso-8859-1?q?site=09?=(using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501042328.52292.jack@jacku.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<200501041646.32135@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<200501042328.52292.jack@jacku.com>
Message-ID: <200501051300.42304@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Tuesday 04 January 2005 11:28 pm, Jack Ungerleider wrote:
> I was going write some flame bait about how the debian packagers don't
> understand Zope and split things up that should be left together. But I
> thought better of it. ;-)

I was going to respond with some flame bait about  how SuSE people don't know 
how to spell. Is it suse? SuSe? SuSE? SUSE? Novell? :-P

> Suggested solution to your problem: Go to Plone.org and download the

I jumped on report bug before reading carefully what messages I was getting.

This situation is caused by the waiting for ftp-masters approval of the other 
packages required by plone.

If you dig around on qa.debian.org 
(http://qa.debian.org/debcheck.php?dist=sid&package=zope%2dcmfplone) it is 
looking more like stuff is waiting to be put into unstable.


-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 14:14:04 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
Message-ID: <65293fcc05010512143e084f30@mail.gmail.com>

I've always been curious of this Distro - and now there's a free offer
until Jan 15:

https://shop.linspire.com/shopping/cartProcessor.php?addItem%5B0%5D%5Bsku%5D=DDXXXUSRDEAL1M&addItem%5B0%5D%5Bfulfillment%5D=digital&addItem%5B0%5D%5BcouponCode%5D=desktopsummit

As found on http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9311  :


: A free download of Linspire and 30 days of CNR service, available
through this link. The offer expires on January 15, so act fast.

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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Wed Jan  5 14:49:50 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc05010512143e084f30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc05010512143e084f30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DC52EE.4070703@comcast.net>

John Meier wrote:

>I've always been curious of this Distro - and now there's a free offer
>until Jan 15:
>
>https://shop.linspire.com/shopping/cartProcessor.php?addItem%5B0%5D%5Bsku%5D=DDXXXUSRDEAL1M&addItem%5B0%5D%5Bfulfillment%5D=digital&addItem%5B0%5D%5BcouponCode%5D=desktopsummit
>
>As found on http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9311  :
>
>
>: A free download of Linspire and 30 days of CNR service, available
>through this link. The offer expires on January 15, so act fast.
>
>
>  
>
Tried a free CD distro of Linspire about six months ago when they 
changed the name from "Lindows" to "Linspire".  Thing that did not 
appeal to me was that one had to subscribe for a fee for additional 
applications not provided on the CD distro.  Many of those applications 
are "standard" on most of the major Linux distros out.  The GUI looked 
nice but keep it only for a few days and loaded something else on like 
Mandrake 9.2.

My ".02"

Jerry W




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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Jan  5 15:01:44 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:31 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
In-Reply-To: <41DC52EE.4070703@comcast.net>
References: <65293fcc05010512143e084f30@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DC52EE.4070703@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051501010.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Jerry Weihrauch wrote:

> Tried a free CD distro of Linspire about six months ago when they 
> changed the name from "Lindows" to "Linspire".

Does this mean they lost the suit with Microsoft?

Mike

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From Alfonso_Chavez at cargill.com  Wed Jan  5 15:25:05 2005
From: Alfonso_Chavez at cargill.com (Alfonso_Chavez@cargill.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
Message-ID: <H00013f916065f85.1104960305.mtkb.cgo.cargill.com@MHS>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Wed Jan  5 15:25:25 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051501010.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <65293fcc05010512143e084f30@mail.gmail.com>	<41DC52EE.4070703@comcast.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051501010.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <41DC5B45.6030805@comcast.net>

Mike Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Jerry Weihrauch wrote:
>
>> Tried a free CD distro of Linspire about six months ago when they 
>> changed the name from "Lindows" to "Linspire".
>
>
> Does this mean they lost the suit with Microsoft?
>
> Mike
>
I think so, or it is still in litigation.  Has been a while since 
checking on "Lindows", but one court said they could not use "Lindows".
Maybe something on the archives on /. ?
Jerry W



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From nassarmu at redconcepts.net  Wed Jan  5 15:20:10 2005
From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051501010.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <65293fcc05010512143e084f30@mail.gmail.com>	<41DC52EE.4070703@comcast.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051501010.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <41DC5A0A.3040502@redconcepts.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 15:41:19 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] semi-ot: so many printer options!
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc04123007436b4c71b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27e6356a0412291808360e5b05@mail.gmail.com>
	<65293fcc04123007436b4c71b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc05010513413cefe51@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.smithmicrotech.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=printer


some HP Laserjet 4m+ for $10 a piece (lot of two or three) with
ethernet ports and pretty good consumables...

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From admin at lctn.org  Wed Jan  5 16:00:18 2005
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
Message-ID: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>

I am helping another tech with a near disaster situation. I won't go into
unnecessary details, but some how they maneged to delete all of /etc from
their Red Hat 8.0 server. The server is a new Compaq Proliant with SCSI0
and 1 acting as a hardware raid-1.

I pulled both drives and did a new install of Red Hat 8.0 on SCSI3. I
added the two drives that make up the raid back in, and it boots to the
new drive with the error message that you cannot mount two drives at
/Label.

When it fully boots it does not see the raid, which from what I can find
on the net needs to be configured first. There is a lot of very important
data on the drives, so I am not willing to experiment too much.

I need help in reestablishing the raid and mounting it, so we can copy
/etc from the new drive to the raid.


Raymond

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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Wed Jan  5 15:50:56 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] From eWeek - Microsoft, Lindows Settle Trademark Dispute,
	July 19. 2004
Message-ID: <41DC6140.6030608@comcast.net>

Link to eWeek article:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1624907,00.asp

Jerry W


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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Jan  5 16:23:28 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] From eWeek - Microsoft, Lindows Settle Trademark Dispute, 
	July 19. 2004
In-Reply-To: <41DC6140.6030608@comcast.net>
References: <41DC6140.6030608@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051618560.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Jerry Weihrauch wrote:

> Link to eWeek article:
> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1624907,00.asp


Interesting.  So Microsoft agreed to pay $20 million to Lindows and 
Lindows changed its name to Linspire.  Lindows won its case both in the US 
courts and in Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg), but had lost 
initially in Benelux.  Isn't it fair to say that Microsoft tried to use 
the courts to force Lindows to change its name and when that didn't work, 
Microsoft bought the name?  Lindows was a fine name.  More of the usual 
anti-competitive Microsoft behavior.

Mike

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From patnewsletters at ip-wizard.com  Wed Jan  5 16:25:33 2005
From: patnewsletters at ip-wizard.com (Pat)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Link to free download offer for Linspire
In-Reply-To: <H00013f916065f85.1104960305.mtkb.cgo.cargill.com@MHS>
References: <H00013f916065f85.1104960305.mtkb.cgo.cargill.com@MHS>
Message-ID: <41DC695D.7000105@ip-wizard.com>

Alfonso_Chavez@cargill.com wrote:
> They settled for $25 million. I think.
> 
> Linspire might be making Linux pretty and easier to configure, 
> but they're also doing other (BAD) things, like having the
> default user be the 'root' user.
> 
> Alfonso

Yep!  My impression when I tried it about a year ago was that they had 
some good ideas re: making a desktop for a non-technical user but that 
they had negated a lot of Linux advantages where not necessary.

FWIW I have been playing with Xandros the last few months and I think 
they have done a better job of 'improving' the joe-user useability 
without the drawbacks that Linspire imposed.  (definitely not the best 
distro for a developer, etc)

What both of them have that I think may be the biggest thing is the ease 
of software installation.  While not terribly difficult for some folks 
the whole rpm/deb (or god forbid compiling it yourself) is just not 
comfortable to the majority of users.


Pat

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From tpenney at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 16:44:15 2005
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] tripwire on 64bit arch
Message-ID: <5c596d0e050105144447a08737@mail.gmail.com>

I've been using tripwire for a while, I've been happy with it and have
gotten use to using it. Now we have this new hi perf duel AMD Opteron
64bit server.  I have not found that anyone is able to run tripwire on
this architecture (x86_64). I can't get it to build from source either
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire/  architecture not supported.

Does anyone have any experience with any other intrusion detection
systems? like AIDE (Advanced Intrusion Detection Environment)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/aide

-- 
Tom Penney

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From smac at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 17:25:24 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
Message-ID: <41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>

It's a Compaq Proliant using a Compaq Raid controller?
Did you use SmartStart?

Sam.

Raymond Norton wrote:

>I am helping another tech with a near disaster situation. I won't go into
>unnecessary details, but some how they maneged to delete all of /etc from
>their Red Hat 8.0 server. The server is a new Compaq Proliant with SCSI0
>and 1 acting as a hardware raid-1.
>
>I pulled both drives and did a new install of Red Hat 8.0 on SCSI3. I
>added the two drives that make up the raid back in, and it boots to the
>new drive with the error message that you cannot mount two drives at
>/Label.
>
>When it fully boots it does not see the raid, which from what I can find
>on the net needs to be configured first. There is a lot of very important
>data on the drives, so I am not willing to experiment too much.
>
>I need help in reestablishing the raid and mounting it, so we can copy
>/etc from the new drive to the raid.
>
>
>Raymond
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>  
>


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From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 17:27:05 2005
From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (whiterabbit1)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] From eWeek - Microsoft, Lindows Settle Trademark Dispute, 
	July 19. 2004
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051618560.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <41DC6140.6030608@comcast.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051618560.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <307a337f0501051527a340349@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:23:28 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller
<mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Jerry Weihrauch wrote:
> 
> > Link to eWeek article:
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1624907,00.asp
> 
> 
> Interesting.  So Microsoft agreed to pay $20 million to Lindows and
> Lindows changed its name to Linspire.  Lindows won its case both in the US
> courts and in Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg), but had lost
> initially in Benelux.  Isn't it fair to say that Microsoft tried to use
> the courts to force Lindows to change its name and when that didn't work,
> Microsoft bought the name?  Lindows was a fine name.  More of the usual
> anti-competitive Microsoft behavior.
> 
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________________

Myself I'm thinking of starting a new os called Pindows.  I could use
20 million.

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Jan  5 17:59:05 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:32 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] From eWeek - Microsoft, Lindows Settle Trademark Dispute, 
	July 19. 2004
In-Reply-To: <307a337f0501051527a340349@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41DC6140.6030608@comcast.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051618560.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<307a337f0501051527a340349@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501051752030.24552@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, whiterabbit1 wrote:

> Myself I'm thinking of starting a new os called Pindows.  I could use 20 
> million.

To get to the $20 million you'll have to (1) get the trademark and domain 
(http://www.pindows.com/ is for sale), (2) be successful enough to pose a 
threat to Microsoft, (3) withstand Microsoft's massive, international 
legal assault, and (4) negotiate a deal.  "Please sir, I want some more" 
just won't cut it!  ;-)

Mike

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From admin at lctn.org  Wed Jan  5 18:11:31 2005
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
	<41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>
Message-ID: <43212.209.176.212.10.1104970291.squirrel@209.176.212.10>

> It's a Compaq Proliant using a Compaq Raid controller?
> Did you use SmartStart?
>


I am not sure if he knows how they set it up. They do have the SmartStart
CD though. I didn't use it on the new install.

The drive I did the new install on is in bay 3 and  shows up as
/dev/cciss/c0d0p3 mounted at /

the two drives that make up the mirror are in bay 0 and 1



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From smac at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 22:00:22 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <43212.209.176.212.10.1104970291.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>	<41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>
	<43212.209.176.212.10.1104970291.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
Message-ID: <41DCB7D6.8030205@visi.com>


You need to tell the Raid Controller the drive is there by using Smartstart.

Sam.

Raymond Norton wrote:

>>It's a Compaq Proliant using a Compaq Raid controller?
>>Did you use SmartStart?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>I am not sure if he knows how they set it up. They do have the SmartStart
>CD though. I didn't use it on the new install.
>
>The drive I did the new install on is in bay 3 and  shows up as
>/dev/cciss/c0d0p3 mounted at /
>
>the two drives that make up the mirror are in bay 0 and 1
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>  
>


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From kfuchs at winternet.com  Wed Jan  5 23:45:12 2005
From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180> (message
	from Raymond Norton on Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:00:18 -0600 (CST))
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
Message-ID: <200501060545.j065jCX13828@ecstasy1.winternet.com>

Raymond Norton wrote:

>I pulled both drives and did a new install of Red Hat 8.0 on SCSI3. I
>added the two drives that make up the raid back in, and it boots to the
>new drive with the error message that you cannot mount two drives at
>/Label.

Try replacing the label reference in the /etc/fstab file with the
appropriate raw special block device.

Or if /Label is actually a mount point, use a second mount point.

Post the /etc/fstab you are trying to use to boot with.

>I need help in reestablishing the raid and mounting it, so we can copy
>/etc from the new drive to the raid.

If only /etc is missing the raid should be fine other than missing
/etc.

Again, providing more information might be helpful.

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs <kfuchs@winternet.com>

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From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 01:01:55 2005
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <41DCB7D6.8030205@visi.com>
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
	<41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>
	<43212.209.176.212.10.1104970291.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
	<41DCB7D6.8030205@visi.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a05010523012f06edaf@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:00:22 -0600, Sam MacDonald <smac@visi.com> wrote:
> 
> You need to tell the Raid Controller the drive is there by using Smartstart.

It sounds to me like the RAID controller is seeing everything.  If the
new installation is installed to drive 3, then that means that the
RAID controller sees all 3 drives.  The first 2 were already a mirror,
so there's no need to initialize them, since they already have a COD.
I definitely think that Ken is onto something.  I'm betting that you
have partitions on the mirror and on drive 3 that have the same label
on the partition, and when your system tries to go through fstab and
mount the partitions by label it's seeing 2 of everything and failing.
 So modify the fstab to mount by device rather than label, then mount
the RAID partitions somewhere in /mnt and copy the files over that you
need.
Of course, if you want be safe when doing stuff, just put one of the
mirrored drives in.  It should still work fine, it'll just be
"degraded."  And if something really gets FUBAR, you have the other
half of the mirror sitting there untouched.  If all goes well, stick
the second drive in after you copy files over and it should
automatically rebuild.

-- 
Justin Kremer <justin.kremer@gmail.com>
"The best advice I can give you is not to trust the state for anything." 
    - Henn. Co. Court Officer

_______________________________________________
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From admin at lctn.org  Thu Jan  6 07:29:20 2005
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a05010523012f06edaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
	<41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>
	<43212.209.176.212.10.1104970291.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
	<41DCB7D6.8030205@visi.com>
	<27e6356a05010523012f06edaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60058.209.176.212.10.1105018160.squirrel@209.176.212.10>

> I'm betting that you
> have partitions on the mirror and on drive 3 that have the same label
> on the partition, and when your system tries to go through fstab and
> mount the partitions by label it's seeing 2 of everything and failing.


That's right, it sees two partitions with a mount point of /Label

>  So modify the fstab to mount by device rather than label, then mount
> the RAID partitions somewhere in /mnt and copy the files over that you
> need.

Here is fstab. Do you know how I would mount by device? I made a few stabs
at it before, but did not get it to work.

[root@localhost root]# cat /etc/fstab
LABEL=/                 /                       ext3    defaults        1 1
LABEL=/boot             /boot                   ext3    defaults        1 2
none                    /dev/pts                devpts  gid=5,mode=620  0 0
none                    /proc                   proc    defaults        0 0
none                    /dev/shm                tmpfs   defaults        0 0
/dev/cciss/c0d0p2       swap                    swap    defaults        0 0
/dev/cdrom              /mnt/cdrom              iso9660
noauto,owner,kudzu,ro 0 0
/dev/fd0                /mnt/floppy             auto    noauto,owner,kudzu
0 0

> Of course, if you want be safe when doing stuff, just put one of the
> mirrored drives in.  It should still work fine, it'll just be
> "degraded."  And if something really gets FUBAR, you have the other
> half of the mirror sitting there untouched.

 I like that idea. We will pull one drive if the other can be mounted alone.



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From tpenney at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 09:38:57 2005
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] tripwire on 64bit arch
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e050105144447a08737@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e050105144447a08737@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c596d0e050106073830feaf4d@mail.gmail.com>

I posted this yesterday but I did not see it show up on the list.
Forgive me if this is a double post.


I've been using tripwire for a while, I've been happy with it and have
gotten use to using it. Now we have this new hi perf duel AMD Opteron
64bit server.  I have not found that anyone is able to run tripwire on
this architecture (x86_64). I can't get it to build from source either
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire/  architecture not supported.

Does anyone have any experience with any other intrusion detection
systems? like AIDE (Advanced Intrusion Detection Environment)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/aide

--
Tom Penney


-- 
Tom Penney

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From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 10:40:51 2005
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] raid 1 help
In-Reply-To: <60058.209.176.212.10.1105018160.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
References: <41604.64.8.149.180.1104962418.squirrel@64.8.149.180>
	<41DC7764.6090301@visi.com>
	<43212.209.176.212.10.1104970291.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
	<41DCB7D6.8030205@visi.com>
	<27e6356a05010523012f06edaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<60058.209.176.212.10.1105018160.squirrel@209.176.212.10>
Message-ID: <27e6356a05010608402965e8c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:29:20 -0600 (CST), Raymond Norton <admin@lctn.org> wrote:
> >  So modify the fstab to mount by device rather than label, then mount
> > the RAID partitions somewhere in /mnt and copy the files over that you
> > need.
> 
> Here is fstab. Do you know how I would mount by device? I made a few stabs
> at it before, but did not get it to work.

What I would do is boot up with only drive 3 in there, and once
everything is up, type "mount" to see which devices are mounted to
which mount points.  Then edit your fstab to reflect those device
names.  If mount doesn't give you the info you need (I don't remember,
when you mounted the partition by label, does it still tell you what
device is mounted?) you can always list the disk's partitions in
fdisk.
My guess, though, is that / and /boot are /dev/cciss/c0d0p0 and
/dev/cciss/c0d0p1, maybe not in that order.  Tragically, in all the
time I've been using SmartArrays, I've never used them under linux, so
I really don't know how the devices get labeled.

-- 
Justin Kremer <justin.kremer@gmail.com>
"The best advice I can give you is not to trust the state for anything." 
    - Henn. Co. Court Officer

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From tanner at real-time.com  Thu Jan  6 11:12:23 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] tripwire on 64bit arch
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e050105144447a08737@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e050105144447a08737@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501061112.23733@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 04:44 pm, Tom Penney wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience with any other intrusion detection
> systems? like AIDE (Advanced Intrusion Detection Environment)
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/aide

I like samhain.
 Homepage: http://la-samhna.de/samhain/index.html

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

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From dan at dandrake.org  Thu Jan  6 13:01:04 2005
From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] messages to gimp-user list disappear
Message-ID: <20050106190104.GA5323@aleph-one>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
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From rpgoldman at real-time.com  Fri Jan  7 16:21:49 2005
From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
Message-ID: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


Can anyone help me find resources for making a new flavor of internet
keyboard work?  I have a logitech cordless access, and there are a
bunch of keys on it that are dead, even when I use the XF86 keyboard
setting that's the closest fit (logicdn).  I'm feeling like scratching
this itch, and making those dead keys work, but I'm having a hard time
figuring out where to start.

IIUC, what happens is a chain like this:

something generates scancodes
scancodes turn into X keycodes
X keycodes turn into keysyms

AFAICT, these keys just don't generate scancodes.  But I'm not sure
where to go from there.  Can anyone point me at a resource for
figuring out how to make those dead keys generate scan codes?  And
then how to make the scancodes turn into keycodes?  I've tried
googling, and wandering around in the linux documentation project
pages, but I'm not getting where I need to.

Many thanks,
R

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From tclug at cmulcahy.com  Fri Jan  7 17:07:18 2005
From: tclug at cmulcahy.com (Chris)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>

You can get the scancodes from xev.  Just run xev and start typing. 
It'll give you the info you need.

xmodmap is what maps the scancodes to functions.  

There's another very easy program for this called hotkeys.
http://ypwong.org/hotkeys/

Also, another one which looks extremely easy, though I've not tried it
myself:
http://lineak.sourceforge.net/

Good luck!

Chris

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 16:21, rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote:
> Can anyone help me find resources for making a new flavor of internet
> keyboard work?  I have a logitech cordless access, and there are a
> bunch of keys on it that are dead, even when I use the XF86 keyboard
> setting that's the closest fit (logicdn).  I'm feeling like scratching
> this itch, and making those dead keys work, but I'm having a hard time
> figuring out where to start.
> 
> IIUC, what happens is a chain like this:
> 
> something generates scancodes
> scancodes turn into X keycodes
> X keycodes turn into keysyms
> 
> AFAICT, these keys just don't generate scancodes.  But I'm not sure
> where to go from there.  Can anyone point me at a resource for
> figuring out how to make those dead keys generate scan codes?  And
> then how to make the scancodes turn into keycodes?  I've tried
> googling, and wandering around in the linux documentation project
> pages, but I'm not getting where I need to.
> 
> Many thanks,
> R
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 


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From ben_b at ppdonline.com  Fri Jan  7 19:21:43 2005
From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail forwarding and domain lookup
Message-ID: <41DF35A7.25F9D0C5@ppdonline.com>

Hi,
I'm using Sendmail on a FreeBSD 4.3 box to forward email.  Email will be
sent to username@mydomain.com and I then treat that as an alias to
username@otherdomain.com.  Nothing overly complex here.  Anyway,
recently one of the "otherdomain.com"s that I forward to started
checking to make sure email comes from a valid domain so I now I end up
with a series of spam that queues for three days on my server while
trying to complete the transaction with "otherdomain.com" and then
dumps, this is really annoying.  I'm wondering if I can run through the
same sort of check for valid domains that "otherdomain.com" does before
attempting to forward and thus eliminate the three days of gridlock for
all these messages.  It appears that all they're doing is verifying that
the domain name of the return address has a legal entry in the domain
name system.  Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ben.

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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Jan  8 01:20:27 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501080720.j087KRs07866@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Various PCs and Parts for sale

Sleek Silver & Black Case w/420 Watt PSU
Biostar M7VIG Pro-D Motherboard
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ CPU
256mb PC2700 DDR RAM
128mb Radeon 9200 or 128mb GeForceFX5200
80gb Seagate UDMA/100 Hard Drive
52x IDE CD-ROM
8x8 Lite-On DVD+-RW
1.44mb Floppy Disk Drive
Motorola 56k v.92 PCI Modem
6-Channel Sound Card
3-Piece Speaker Set w/ Self-Powered Mini-Subwoofer
108-Key PS/2 Multimedia Keyboard
3-Button PS/2 Optical Mouse w/ Scrollwheel
10/100 Network card (has Linux Drivers)

Upgrade parts:
CD-RW      Add $15 (Replaces CD-ROM)
256MB PC2700 (only 1 stick left)     Add$25
128MB GeforceFX5500     Add $15

All parts are brand new and have not been run except a 6 hour burn-in test, the hard drive is not formatted/partitioned. All parts under manufacturers warranty. No OS with these systems. I have 2 available.
$425.00


1 thin client system
AMD 300
64 MB Ram
6 GB 2.5" HD
No CD/Floppy
On board: Video, Sound, Network, USB

Currently has Debian 3.0 on it with all current software upgrades. I will replace it with a minimal install of Debian if you want or leave the system formatted for you to play with.
$25


HP IIP laser printer
New Toner Cartridge - printed about 100 pages on it. Works fine, has trouble taking paper from feeder tray. I want to buy a new one. Good for kids!
$25


Beige 4U Rack mount case no P/S. Not a spacious case but good for setting up a small server.
$20


Free to good home large blue metal rack. This is a heavy duty rack. It doesn't have any doors, sides, or shelves, but it is in good condition. I managed to build a few shelves out of wood that served my purpose. This is for pickup only as I don't have the means to move this myself. I will help you load it of course. If you want more info please email me off list.

Seller Email address: james_masters at comcast dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 09:22:04 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:33 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Re: Cups, shorewall, and Netgear PS oh my!
In-Reply-To: <41dc18c2.42a8f886.5bba.3c68@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <41DB2149.2020704@druswanderings.net>
	<41dc18c2.42a8f886.5bba.3c68@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bab831e05010807224570b0a@mail.gmail.com>

Thought I'd let the group know I figured this one out. 
First of all it wasn't JUST netgears. I bought a hawking to test a
different print server and it didn't work either. Anyhow, Shorewall
2.0.x didn't work, Shorewall 1.4 did, and finally upgrading to
Shorewall 2.2 fixed it. It is a beta unfortunately, but it seems to be
fine.

Chris


On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:41:29 -0600, Chris Smith
<christophermsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have several servers running Cups, Fedora Core2/3, and printing to
> various printers on a variety of Netgear printservers, 3com print servers,
> and Savin copiers. All of these are printed to via their LPD interface and
> are RAW queues.  All of the Netgears recently stopped working if we are
> running Shorewall > 2.0. The Policy and Rules in Shorewall allow ALL from
> LOC to FW and vice versa. Shutting off shorewall immeadiately allows both
> web access to the print servers and printing access. (In fact queued up Jobs
> start spitting out) We have 1 site with Shorewall 1.4 (which is about to go
> EOL) where the Netgear still works. No other print servers seem affected.
> Anybody seem anything like this?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Chris Smith
> 
>

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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Jan  8 11:27:26 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501081727.j08HRQL16659@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: thinkpad 600E memory

I could use some memory for a TP600E.  Does anyone have some 128MEG SODIMM they would like to part with?


Seller Email address: crc1021 at myrealbox dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From rpgoldman at real-time.com  Sat Jan  8 14:41:02 2005
From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
Message-ID: <16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris  <tclug@cmulcahy.com> writes:

    Chris> You can get the scancodes from xev.  Just run xev and start typing. 
    Chris> It'll give you the info you need.

I think I wasn't clear enough in my original message.  I have used
xev, and the keys I'm concerned about are the ones that don't produce
any scancode or xkeycodes.  I.e., I press the key and nothing at all
happens.

I suspect for these I have to get into the driver, but I don't know.

    Chris> Also, another one which looks extremely easy, though I've not tried it
    Chris> myself:
    Chris> http://lineak.sourceforge.net/

This is a very good pointer --- it gives some discussion of what to do
when xev doesn't react to keypresses with any keycode at all.

I still wish I understood better where the responsibility of the
kernel drivers leaves off and X takes on.

But I've used the scancodes program to check the keypresses in a
console, w/o X, and the keys are still "dead."

Robert




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From austad at signal15.com  Sat Jan  8 18:25:34 2005
From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
Message-ID: <FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>

Anyone have access to one of those little devices that tells you the 
power output of a laser?  Like a Coherent LaserCheck or similar?

I've got a green laser that I cranked the power up on, and I want to 
test it.  I need to check and realign the crystal also, and doing this 
with a power meter would be the best way.  Judging from the current 
draw, it should me outputting somewhere around 40mw.  But, if the 
crystal is aligned improperly, it could be considerably less.

So yeah, this is way OT.  But, considering any true geek totally digs 
lasers, I figured this is the place to ask.

~jay


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From smac at visi.com  Sun Jan  9 08:52:45 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
Message-ID: <41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>

You're not going to be pointing it at air craft are you ;-) eheheheheh!

Sam.

Jay Austad wrote:

> Anyone have access to one of those little devices that tells you the 
> power output of a laser?  Like a Coherent LaserCheck or similar?
>
> I've got a green laser that I cranked the power up on, and I want to 
> test it.  I need to check and realign the crystal also, and doing this 
> with a power meter would be the best way.  Judging from the current 
> draw, it should me outputting somewhere around 40mw.  But, if the 
> crystal is aligned improperly, it could be considerably less.
>
> So yeah, this is way OT.  But, considering any true geek totally digs 
> lasers, I figured this is the place to ask.
>
> ~jay
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


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From smac at visi.com  Sun Jan  9 08:51:22 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>	<1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
	<16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <41E144EA.7020509@visi.com>

This sort of sound's like the same problem Linux had with the "win modem".
The hardware was designed for M$ OS.

Who is the manufacturer?

Sam.

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From austad at signal15.com  Sun Jan  9 14:24:34 2005
From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
Message-ID: <79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>

Hehe, no.  That guy that got busted was a total dummy.  Even at 
relatively low powers, the dot is visible on clouds.  The guy that got 
busted had a fairly high power unit.  Still, at a long range, it won't 
cause damage to eyesight, but it will temporarily flash blind someone.  
In any case, he deserves to get charged with something.  But I think 
charging him as a terrorist is a bit excessive.  Maybe a reckless 
endangerment count for each person on the plane, or something similar.  
Either way, he's screwed.

Lasers are a fun hobby, and it's idiots like this guy that are going to 
screw it up for everyone else.


On Jan 9, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Sam MacDonald wrote:

> You're not going to be pointing it at air craft are you ;-) eheheheheh!
>
> Sam.
>
> Jay Austad wrote:
>
>> Anyone have access to one of those little devices that tells you the 
>> power output of a laser?  Like a Coherent LaserCheck or similar?
>>
>> I've got a green laser that I cranked the power up on, and I want to 
>> test it.  I need to check and realign the crystal also, and doing 
>> this with a power meter would be the best way.  Judging from the 
>> current draw, it should me outputting somewhere around 40mw.  But, if 
>> the crystal is aligned improperly, it could be considerably less.
>>
>> So yeah, this is way OT.  But, considering any true geek totally digs 
>> lasers, I figured this is the place to ask.
>>
>> ~jay
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


_______________________________________________
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From rpgoldman at real-time.com  Sun Jan  9 14:59:37 2005
From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <41E144EA.7020509@visi.com>
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
	<16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<41E144EA.7020509@visi.com>
Message-ID: <16865.39737.800571.111752@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "Sam" == Sam MacDonald <smac@visi.com> writes:

    Sam> This sort of sound's like the same problem Linux had with the "win modem".
    Sam> The hardware was designed for M$ OS.

    Sam> Who is the manufacturer?

Logitech.

Actually, I'm working my way towards a solution.  oddly (or perhaps
not, I don't know), showkey -c does NOT work --- the keys are "dead."

HOWEVER, scancodes are echoed into /var/log/messages for the deadkeys,
like so:

Jan  9 14:54:47 necronomicon kernel: atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0).
Jan  9 14:54:47 necronomicon kernel: atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known.

... so I should be able to make a keyboard map for this beast after
all!

Thanks to all for their help.

BTW, can anyone explain to a bear with very little brain what lineak
is used for?  I.e., if we've got a keymap for these beasts, don't we
just set keybindings in KDE (or gnome)?  What's lineak doing for us
that we don't have with just X + a graphical desktop?

Thanks,
R




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From crc1021 at myrealbox.com  Sun Jan  9 14:58:38 2005
From: crc1021 at myrealbox.com (Eric Lofstad)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
	<16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20050109145838.35a087c8.crc1021@myrealbox.com>

Are you using a 2.6 kernel?  My internet keys do not work with the 2.6 kernels, but do work with the 2.4 kernels.  I have not found an answer yet, but have seen that the keys were reworked in 2.6.
Eric


> I press the key and nothing at all
> happens.
> 
...
> 
> But I've used the scancodes program to check the keypresses in a
> console, w/o X, and the keys are still "dead."
> 
> Robert

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From smac at visi.com  Sun Jan  9 15:24:20 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net>
	<E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
Message-ID: <41E1A104.90107@visi.com>

A good friend of mine is in the Navy, He works on the USS Vincent, he 
does electronic tech work on helicopters.
The lasers they have on the Helicopters will burn very fast but you wont 
know it until some time later. Blindness is almost instant with these 
lasers. They wear special eye protection for obvious reasons.
They have a doctor on the ship that has had special training on laser 
burns. In the training the doctor gives he says, It burns very deep, 
very quickly, causing muscle damage in only moments.

I guess the laser to guide a missile or gun is a little different =-O

Sam.



Jay Austad wrote:

> Hehe, no.  That guy that got busted was a total dummy.  Even at 
> relatively low powers, the dot is visible on clouds.  The guy that got 
> busted had a fairly high power unit.  Still, at a long range, it won't 
> cause damage to eyesight, but it will temporarily flash blind 
> someone.  In any case, he deserves to get charged with something.  But 
> I think charging him as a terrorist is a bit excessive.  Maybe a 
> reckless endangerment count for each person on the plane, or something 
> similar.  Either way, he's screwed.
>
> Lasers are a fun hobby, and it's idiots like this guy that are going 
> to screw it up for everyone else.
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Sam MacDonald wrote:
>
>> You're not going to be pointing it at air craft are you ;-) eheheheheh!
>>
>> Sam.
>>
>> Jay Austad wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have access to one of those little devices that tells you the 
>>> power output of a laser?  Like a Coherent LaserCheck or similar?
>>>
>>> I've got a green laser that I cranked the power up on, and I want to 
>>> test it.  I need to check and realign the crystal also, and doing 
>>> this with a power meter would be the best way.  Judging from the 
>>> current draw, it should me outputting somewhere around 40mw.  But, 
>>> if the crystal is aligned improperly, it could be considerably less.
>>>
>>> So yeah, this is way OT.  But, considering any true geek totally 
>>> digs lasers, I figured this is the place to ask.
>>>
>>> ~jay
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


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From smac at visi.com  Sun Jan  9 16:18:58 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Samuel MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] 64bit Multi-Boot
Message-ID: <1105309138.3959.6.camel@impala-fc3-64>

I have my new rig with 3 operating systems running.

Fedora Core 3 x64 on hdd
XP 32 bit on hda
XP 64 bit on hdb


Fedora installed went smooth, everything works.
Playing a music CD is not very good, it skips and is choppy.

I ran Up2date and installed everything including the kernal patch.

No problems so far.

Sam.


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From larry.pint at ntuminc.com  Mon Jan 10 09:22:09 2005
From: larry.pint at ntuminc.com (Larry Pint)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net>
	<E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
Message-ID: <41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>

It's my understanding that by charging him with terrorism, he can be 
held indefinitely without formal charges or hearings.  He can also be 
sentenced without a formal trial and doesn't have the normal legal 
protections.  And , without those due process checks, it's easy to 
charge someone.  In the name of terrorism prevention we have forfeited 
many of our rights.  (In my opinion, way too many.)  It seems to me that 
anyone charged with terrorism is stripped of all normal legal rights, 
and the definition of terrorism is so broad and vague that it can easily 
be applied to too many situations.

My not so humble opinion.  (I am not a lawyer.)

Larry Pint


Jay Austad wrote:

> Hehe, no.  That guy that got busted was a total dummy.  Even at 
> relatively low powers, the dot is visible on clouds.  The guy that got 
> busted had a fairly high power unit.  Still, at a long range, it won't 
> cause damage to eyesight, but it will temporarily flash blind 
> someone.  In any case, he deserves to get charged with something.  But 
> I think charging him as a terrorist is a bit excessive.  Maybe a 
> reckless endangerment count for each person on the plane, or something 
> similar.  Either way, he's screwed.
>
> Lasers are a fun hobby, and it's idiots like this guy that are going 
> to screw it up for everyone else.
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Sam MacDonald wrote:
>
>> You're not going to be pointing it at air craft are you ;-) eheheheheh!
>>
>> Sam.
>>
>> Jay Austad wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have access to one of those little devices that tells you the 
>>> power output of a laser?  Like a Coherent LaserCheck or similar?
>>>
>>> I've got a green laser that I cranked the power up on, and I want to 
>>> test it.  I need to check and realign the crystal also, and doing 
>>> this with a power meter would be the best way.  Judging from the 
>>> current draw, it should me outputting somewhere around 40mw.  But, 
>>> if the crystal is aligned improperly, it could be considerably less.
>>>
>>> So yeah, this is way OT.  But, considering any true geek totally 
>>> digs lasers, I figured this is the place to ask.
>>>
>>> ~jay
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


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From adam at whee.org  Mon Jan 10 09:02:47 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] sendmail forwarding and domain lookup
In-Reply-To: <41DF35A7.25F9D0C5@ppdonline.com>
References: <41DF35A7.25F9D0C5@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501100850440.18018@titan>

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Ben Bargabus wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm using Sendmail on a FreeBSD 4.3 box to forward email.  Email will be

TCBUG is to your left, but...

> dumps, this is really annoying.  I'm wondering if I can run through the
> same sort of check for valid domains that "otherdomain.com" does before

This should be default behavior in recent versions (like post-8.9 - so 
"recent" isn't really the right word).  But it could have been overridden 
if your cf was compiled with FEATURE(`accept_unresolvable_domains')

Just to confirm - you are sure that the host is just doing a check on the 
domains, and not on the sender address itself?  Many sites are starting to 
do address validation.  So look at the mail in your queue and confirm that 
the domains really don't exist.

Then to be doubly-sure, connect to your mailhost from outside of your 
network and try something like:

HELO whatever
MAIL FROM: <bob@invalid.domain>

It /should/ reject it, unless it's been overridden as mentioned above.

You can see if it was overridden by looking in your sendmail.cf file. 
In SBasic_check_mail there should be some lines like:

R<TEMP> $*              $#error $@ 4.1.8 $: "451 Domain of sender address " $&f
" does not resolve"

R<PERM> $*              $#error $@ 5.1.8 $: "553 Domain of sender address " $&f
" does not exist"

If you see those lines, and it is still not rejecting mail from 
non-existant domains, contact me off-list and I'll work with you.

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From rwh at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 09:48:19 2005
From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:34 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net>	<E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
Message-ID: <41E2A3C3.8060002@visi.com>

He was charged with terrorism so they wouldn't have to spend a lot of 
time chasing down the next twit who decides to point a laser at an 
airplane. I suspect that once he's spent most of his net worth on 
lawyers he'll be allowed to plead guilty to some form of criminal 
stupidity and do a few months of house arrest.

--rick


Larry Pint wrote:

> It's my understanding that by charging him with terrorism, he can be 
> held indefinitely without formal charges or hearings.  He can also be 
> sentenced without a formal trial and doesn't have the normal legal 
> protections.  And , without those due process checks, it's easy to 
> charge someone.  In the name of terrorism prevention we have forfeited 
> many of our rights.  (In my opinion, way too many.)  It seems to me 
> that anyone charged with terrorism is stripped of all normal legal 
> rights, and the definition of terrorism is so broad and vague that it 
> can easily be applied to too many situations.
>
> My not so humble opinion.  (I am not a lawyer.)
>
> Larry Pint
>
>
> Jay Austad wrote:
>
>> Hehe, no.  That guy that got busted was a total dummy.  Even at 
>> relatively low powers, the dot is visible on clouds.  The guy that 
>> got busted had a fairly high power unit.  Still, at a long range, it 
>> won't cause damage to eyesight, but it will temporarily flash blind 
>> someone.  In any case, he deserves to get charged with something.  
>> But I think charging him as a terrorist is a bit excessive.  Maybe a 
>> reckless endangerment count for each person on the plane, or 
>> something similar.  Either way, he's screwed.
>>
>> Lasers are a fun hobby, and it's idiots like this guy that are going 
>> to screw it up for everyone else.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Sam MacDonald wrote:
>>
>>> You're not going to be pointing it at air craft are you ;-) eheheheheh!
>>>
>>> Sam.
>>>
>>> Jay Austad wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone have access to one of those little devices that tells you 
>>>> the power output of a laser?  Like a Coherent LaserCheck or similar?
>>>>
>>>> I've got a green laser that I cranked the power up on, and I want 
>>>> to test it.  I need to check and realign the crystal also, and 
>>>> doing this with a power meter would be the best way.  Judging from 
>>>> the current draw, it should me outputting somewhere around 40mw.  
>>>> But, if the crystal is aligned improperly, it could be considerably 
>>>> less.
>>>>
>>>> So yeah, this is way OT.  But, considering any true geek totally 
>>>> digs lasers, I figured this is the place to ask.
>>>>
>>>> ~jay
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>>>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>>>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________
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From rotbau at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 10:07:36 2005
From: rotbau at gmail.com (rotbau)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] kernel menuconfig and loader screen icon
In-Reply-To: <E1Co2A5-0006Uk-Dp@pirate.real-time.com>
References: <E1Co2A5-0006Uk-Dp@pirate.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <bfcbc21005011008076a43bffd@mail.gmail.com>

This is a pretty minor issue but I would like to get it sorted.

When I boot to the kernel installed with base slackware there is a
penguin icon at the top of the loader screen and the text is smaller.

When I boot to a kernel I recompiled to add smp support and a couple
of SCSI modules, the penguin icon is gone and the font on the loader
screen is much bigger.  I assume that I'm missing a setting somewhere
during the configuration of the new kernel.  I use make menuconfig to
set the kernel options.

I have a couple of questions:

Would using 'make oldconfig' using the current stock kernel config
before running menuconfig toggle the setting in the newly compiled
kernel or is this icon and font controlled somewhere else in another
config file?

Can you use 'make oldconfig' if moving from say a 2.4.26 kernel to
2.4.28 or are there issues with compatibility?

regards,
rotbau

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From klinej at msoe.edu  Mon Jan 10 10:33:59 2005
From: klinej at msoe.edu (Jonathan Kline)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] kernel menuconfig and loader screen icon
In-Reply-To: <bfcbc21005011008076a43bffd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Co2A5-0006Uk-Dp@pirate.real-time.com>
	<bfcbc21005011008076a43bffd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1105374839.4170.27.camel@localhost>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 11:33:42 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <41E2A3C3.8060002@visi.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com> <41E2A3C3.8060002@visi.com>
Message-ID: <1105378422.41e2bc76590eb@my.visi.com>

We all know the government is always right.

LMAO ROF CMEO WWOF.

Sam.



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From rpgoldman at real-time.com  Mon Jan 10 12:43:19 2005
From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <20050109145838.35a087c8.crc1021@myrealbox.com>
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
	<16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<20050109145838.35a087c8.crc1021@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <16866.52423.687542.636401@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Lofstad <crc1021@myrealbox.com> writes:

    Eric> Are you using a 2.6 kernel?  My internet keys do not work
    Eric> with the 2.6 kernels, but do work with the 2.4 kernels.  I
    Eric> have not found an answer yet, but have seen that the keys
    Eric> were reworked in 2.6.

Yes, I am.  I'm still a little puzzled why scancodes treats the keys
as "dead" (there's probably a better term for this, since the term
"dead key" is used in connection with extended character sets, but I
don't know what it is), while scancodes turn up in the logfiles.  One
of many things I don't understand about input devices in Linux + X....


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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 12:51:04 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <1105378422.41e2bc76590eb@my.visi.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com> <41E2A3C3.8060002@visi.com>
	<1105378422.41e2bc76590eb@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c050110105137166410@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:33:42 -0600, smac@visi.com <smac@visi.com> wrote:
> LMAO ROF CMEO WWOF.

WTF?

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From admin at lctn.org  Mon Jan 10 12:54:40 2005
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] null command
Message-ID: <3283.64.8.148.30.1105383280.squirrel@64.8.148.30>

I have a root mailbox that is way too big with cron job and other info.
What is the proper way to use the null command to delete all that is in
it, without removing the root mail box. I had this info in the past, but
have lost track of it.


Raymond

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 12:50:37 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c0501101050621af5e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:22:09 -0600, Larry Pint <larry.pint@ntuminc.com> wrote:
> It's my understanding that by charging him with terrorism, he can be
> held indefinitely without formal charges or hearings.  He can also be
> sentenced without a formal trial and doesn't have the normal legal
> protections.  And , without those due process checks, it's easy to
> charge someone.  In the name of terrorism prevention we have forfeited
> many of our rights.  (In my opinion, way too many.)  It seems to me that
> anyone charged with terrorism is stripped of all normal legal rights,
> and the definition of terrorism is so broad and vague that it can easily
> be applied to too many situations.

<sarcasm>
You must not be an American then. A Red-Blooded American (TM) would
welcome the opportunity to give up any and all rights for the sake of
"security". Anyone who says otherwise not only is un-American, but
also against liberty, justice, and Freedom Fries.
</sarcasm>
 
> My not so humble opinion.  (I am not a lawyer.)

I agree.

IANAL as well, but I believe charging this guy with terrorism and
holding him under USA-PATRIOT Act clauses and trying him in a FISA
("secret") courts are two different things. While I find the
USA-PATRIOT Act extremely errossive of our freedoms, I believe it has
only been applied once or twice to an American citizen. All others
have been foreigners or aliens. Not that this makes it okay, by any
means.

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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan 10 13:03:49 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] null command
In-Reply-To: <3283.64.8.148.30.1105383280.squirrel@64.8.148.30>;
	from admin@lctn.org on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:54:40PM -0600
References: <3283.64.8.148.30.1105383280.squirrel@64.8.148.30>
Message-ID: <20050110130349.A29086@thinkunix.net>

Raymond Norton wrote:
> I have a root mailbox that is way too big with cron job and other info.
> What is the proper way to use the null command to delete all that is in
> it, without removing the root mail box. I had this info in the past, but
> have lost track of it.

as root, assuming a /bin/sh or /bin/bash shell:

	shell# cd /var/spool/mail
	shell# > root

this "zero's" out the file.  You could also just do rm the file and the
touch it and chown, chgrp,chmod  it to what it was, typically root:mail
660.
-- 
scot

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From MKroska at kdv.com  Mon Jan 10 13:08:43 2005
From: MKroska at kdv.com (Mark J. Kroska)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:35 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] null command
Message-ID: <FC47A784572F8B41BB3CFD8E30CBAF98218127@kdv-exch.KDV.COM>

It's funny, I had to do the exact same thing the other day.
 
cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/root
 
should set you up.  I do this command with log files if they grow out of control also.
MK
 
Mark J. Kroska
Director of Web Services
KDV Technology and Consulting Services, Inc.
Direct 320-258-6412
Main 320-252-7060
Fax 320-252-9627
mkroska@kdv.com
 
 
"NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited,  Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you."

________________________________

From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Raymond Norton
Sent: Mon 1/10/2005 12:54 PM
To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: [TCLUG] null command



I have a root mailbox that is way too big with cron job and other info.
What is the proper way to use the null command to delete all that is in
it, without removing the root mail box. I had this info in the past, but
have lost track of it.


Raymond

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From sk3tch at sk3tch.net  Mon Jan 10 13:13:41 2005
From: sk3tch at sk3tch.net (sk3tch@sk3tch.net)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:36 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
Message-ID: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>

Hey everyone,
 
I'm beginning another malware research project and I've created 4 free
webmail accounts that I need to get "out there" as quickly as possible
so I can get all the junk, viruses, 419s, and phishing attempts
possible.
 
My question is -
 
There was this web page out there that you could use as "revenge" and
sign up any email address to it and it'd dump tons of SPAM to
it...well...I don't want revenge..just SPAM!  Anyone remember the URL?
I can't seem to find it.
 
Also...if you have any info on signing up to high-exposure SPAM
lists...let me know.  I've Google'd and found a few valuable links but
they're quite outdated.  Other bright ideas I had were to sign up for
freeipods.com...figured that would generate some good stuff. :-)
 
Reply off list or on list (if appropriate) - sorry this is OT..but I
figured someone would be able to help me.  And please..for the love of
all things holy...do not sign me up for anything..I have 4 special
accounts that I want to expose...I already get plenty at my personal
account.  Heh..
 
Thanks all!!
 
sk3tch


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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Mon Jan 10 13:28:24 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:36 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] null command
In-Reply-To: <FC47A784572F8B41BB3CFD8E30CBAF98218127@kdv-exch.KDV.COM>
References: <FC47A784572F8B41BB3CFD8E30CBAF98218127@kdv-exch.KDV.COM>
Message-ID: <53138.63.228.57.26.1105385304.squirrel@63.228.57.26>

Here's one I've been struggling with.  I have two messages in root I'd
like to keep, and the remaining 1,000 or so can be deleted.  Is there a
quick, easy way to do that?

Perhaps the best way is just to move the two messages somewhere else and
then "null" the box every so often?  What does everyone think?

> It's funny, I had to do the exact same thing the other day.
>
> cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/root
>
> should set you up.  I do this command with log files if they grow out of
> control also.
> MK
>
> Mark J. Kroska
> Director of Web Services
> KDV Technology and Consulting Services, Inc.
> Direct 320-258-6412
> Main 320-252-7060
> Fax 320-252-9627
> mkroska@kdv.com



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From MKroska at kdv.com  Mon Jan 10 13:35:24 2005
From: MKroska at kdv.com (Mark J. Kroska)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] null command
Message-ID: <FC47A784572F8B41BB3CFD8E30CBAF9821812D@kdv-exch.KDV.COM>

Oh, I see. Yes, then you could use Pine and create a folder on the system, save those 2 messages in that folder.
Next run the cat /dev/null command.
I've had to do that too!
MK
 
Mark J. Kroska
Director of Web Services
KDV Technology and Consulting Services, Inc.
Direct 320-258-6412
Main 320-252-7060
Fax 320-252-9627
mkroska@kdv.com
 
 
"NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited,  Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you."

________________________________

From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org on behalf of Garrett Krueger
Sent: Mon 1/10/2005 1:28 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: RE: [TCLUG] null command



Here's one I've been struggling with.  I have two messages in root I'd
like to keep, and the remaining 1,000 or so can be deleted.  Is there a
quick, easy way to do that?

Perhaps the best way is just to move the two messages somewhere else and
then "null" the box every so often?  What does everyone think?

> It's funny, I had to do the exact same thing the other day.
>
> cat /dev/null > /var/spool/mail/root
>
> should set you up.  I do this command with log files if they grow out of
> control also.
> MK
>
> Mark J. Kroska
> Director of Web Services
> KDV Technology and Consulting Services, Inc.
> Direct 320-258-6412
> Main 320-252-7060
> Fax 320-252-9627
> mkroska@kdv.com



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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan 10 13:43:07 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>;
	from sk3tch@sk3tch.net on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 01:13:41PM -0600
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
Message-ID: <20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>

sk3tch@sk3tch.net wrote:
> I'm beginning another malware research project and I've created 4 free
> webmail accounts that I need to get "out there" as quickly as possible
> so I can get all the junk, viruses, 419s, and phishing attempts
> possible.
>  
> Also...if you have any info on signing up to high-exposure SPAM
> lists...let me know.  I've Google'd and found a few valuable links but
> they're quite outdated.  Other bright ideas I had were to sign up for
> freeipods.com...figured that would generate some good stuff. :-)

Sign up for a subscription to any of these magazines and you're sure to
get spam.  They sell your email address immediately.  You'll start
receiving spam in your inbox before the first copy of the magazine
arrives.

http://www.cuj.com/
http://www.ddj.com/
http://www.samag.com/
http://www.sdmagazine.com/

I think you can get a free subscription to sdmagazine.com, the others
you have to pay for.  The magazines have a heavy Microsoft focus but
occassionally touch on open source topics.
-- 
scot

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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan 10 13:43:55 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] null command
In-Reply-To: <53138.63.228.57.26.1105385304.squirrel@63.228.57.26>;
	from gkrueger@cleosci.com on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 01:28:24PM -0600
References: <FC47A784572F8B41BB3CFD8E30CBAF98218127@kdv-exch.KDV.COM>
	<53138.63.228.57.26.1105385304.squirrel@63.228.57.26>
Message-ID: <20050110134355.B11@thinkunix.net>

Garrett Krueger wrote:
> Here's one I've been struggling with.  I have two messages in root I'd
> like to keep, and the remaining 1,000 or so can be deleted.  Is there a
> quick, easy way to do that?
> 
> Perhaps the best way is just to move the two messages somewhere else and
> then "null" the box every so often?  What does everyone think?

that's what I would do.
-- 
scot

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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Mon Jan 10 13:53:21 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0501101050621af5e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
	<914f813c0501101050621af5e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050110195321.GA23919@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:50:37PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> <sarcasm>
> You must not be an American then. A Red-Blooded American (TM) would
> welcome the opportunity ...
[snip]

Is this the origin of "Red" vs. "Blue" states then?  Are MNesotans
therefore blue-bloods?

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 14:00:58 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <20050110195321.GA23919@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
	<914f813c0501101050621af5e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050110195321.GA23919@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c050110120040b4d84d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:53:21 -0600, John J. Trammell
<trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:50:37PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> > <sarcasm>
> > You must not be an American then. A Red-Blooded American (TM) would
> > welcome the opportunity ...
> [snip]
> 
> Is this the origin of "Red" vs. "Blue" states then?  Are MNesotans
> therefore blue-bloods?

Makes sense to me, though I'm not really certain. I just put the (TM)
in there in the typical Internet "I'm going to make this appear even
more rediculous"  fashion.

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From adam at whee.org  Mon Jan 10 13:51:32 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101323290.18018@titan>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 sk3tch@sk3tch.net wrote:

> Also...if you have any info on signing up to high-exposure SPAM
> lists...let me know.  I've Google'd and found a few valuable links but
> they're quite outdated.  Other bright ideas I had were to sign up for
> freeipods.com...figured that would generate some good stuff. :-)

I've found the best way to get an address out there is by posting to 
mailing lists that maintain public archives, posting to usenet, and 
putting it on a webpage.  From there, act on the messages (see below). 
With the webpage approach, the more exposure the better - posting to 
forums or message boards that get archived are more likely to be crawled 
than some random domain that doesn't get any traffic.

Be careful when "seeding" sites with an address - a lot of times they will 
let you know that they're going to share your address with "marketing 
partners".  Granted, confirmed opt-in is the only legitimate way to build 
e-mail lists, but just keep in mind that there is a distinction, and by 
manually signing up you will get some of both.

You may also consider asking on spam-l, and in the news.admin.net-abuse 
hierarchy (but read charters/FAQs first!)

There is (was?) a project on-line that had 100% pure spam in various 
formats that could be downloaded - I can't remember the name of it, but it 
was on slashdot, and can probably be google'd.

If you want a pure spam feed (that is, 100% guaranteed spam, not being 
sorted automatically from a spam filter, and addresses that were 
harvested, not signed-up), we can talk off-list.  I started a project long 
ago that involved spamtraps, and never did much with it.  Some stats:

-rw-rw----   1 spam     mail     87052466 Jan 10 13:13 /var/mail/spam
-rw-rw----   1 spam     mail     60110600 Aug 24 08:05 /var/mail/spam.0.gz

bash-2.05$ grep -c TXT /etc/namedb/...DSNBL Zone...
3992 (3,992 IP's in my DNSBL - they expire automatically after 2 weeks).

bash-2.05$ grep spamtrap /etc/mail/aliases | wc -l
      191

Many of those 191 are feeds from other people that have setup a spamtrap 
address and aliased it to me (for my project).  Unfortunately those are 
not well-advertised.  The remainder are addresses at some of my domains 
that I've littered in HTML (as comments and not) and news postings.  With 
some, I sent "remove me I'm on the AOL!" replies back to all (From, 
Reply-To, Errors-To, and any addresses in the message body), as well as 
visiting the websites, to confirm the address and attract some more spew.

The perl to automagically HTTP GET all of the URLs referenced in the spam 
was not particularly difficult, and I think it greatly improved the 
exposure.  I've since lost the code, and I haven't run it in awhile.

Even with all of this, running for well over a year, I only get a few 
hundred messages/day to the spamtraps.  In comparison with my real 
address, my anti-spam system has stopped 4,305 since the 1st of this year.

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From adam at whee.org  Mon Jan 10 13:57:06 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
	<20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> Sign up for a subscription to any of these magazines and you're sure to

> http://www.cuj.com/
> http://www.ddj.com/
> http://www.samag.com/
> http://www.sdmagazine.com/
>

SA Mag spam?  Really?!

> I think you can get a free subscription to sdmagazine.com, the others
> you have to pay for.  The magazines have a heavy Microsoft focus but

SA Mag?  Microsoft?  I haven't subscribed for a year or two, but when I 
did it was very heavy unix - mostly Sun.  It's pretty sad if they are 
going to the dark side.  SA was one of the few trade rags I actually read 
(once Boardwatch started going south...)

_______________________________________________
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From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 14:35:47 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <20050110195321.GA23919@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
	<914f813c0501101050621af5e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050110195321.GA23919@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <1105389347.41e2e72308fcd@my.visi.com>

Not "Blue Bloods", just blue fingers, toes, nose, etc...

Sam.


Quoting "John J. Trammell" <trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com>:

> On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:50:37PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> > <sarcasm>
> > You must not be an American then. A Red-Blooded American (TM) would
> > welcome the opportunity ...
> [snip]
>
> Is this the origin of "Red" vs. "Blue" states then?  Are MNesotans
> therefore blue-bloods?
>
> --
> trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>




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From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 14:34:02 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
	<20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>
Message-ID: <1105389242.41e2e6ba49853@my.visi.com>

Send an eMail to my sister in Denver.

Sam.

Quoting Adam Maloney <adam@whee.org>:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> > Sign up for a subscription to any of these magazines and you're sure to
>
> > http://www.cuj.com/
> > http://www.ddj.com/
> > http://www.samag.com/
> > http://www.sdmagazine.com/
> >
>
> SA Mag spam?  Really?!
>
> > I think you can get a free subscription to sdmagazine.com, the others
> > you have to pay for.  The magazines have a heavy Microsoft focus but
>
> SA Mag?  Microsoft?  I haven't subscribed for a year or two, but when I
> did it was very heavy unix - mostly Sun.  It's pretty sad if they are
> going to the dark side.  SA was one of the few trade rags I actually read
> (once Boardwatch started going south...)
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>




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From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon Jan 10 15:50:30 2005
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
	<20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>
Message-ID: <20050110215030.GA10416@callisto>

On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 01:57:06PM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> >Sign up for a subscription to any of these magazines and you're sure to
> >[ ... ]
> 
> SA Mag?  Microsoft?  I haven't subscribed for a year or two, but when I 
> did it was very heavy unix - mostly Sun.  It's pretty sad if they are 
> going to the dark side.  SA was one of the few trade rags I actually read 
> (once Boardwatch started going south...)
> 

I'm subscribed to SysAdmin and its mostly linux and solaris stuff. I also
don't get much spam, so I don't think they sold my email address to anyone.

-Steve

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From scot at thinkunix.net  Mon Jan 10 16:06:06 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <20050110215030.GA10416@callisto>;
	from strayf@freeshell.org on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 03:50:30PM -0600
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
	<20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>
	<20050110215030.GA10416@callisto>
Message-ID: <20050110160606.A24732@thinkunix.net>

> On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 01:57:06PM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote:
> > On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> > >Sign up for a subscription to any of these magazines and you're sure to
> > >[ ... ]
> > 
> > SA Mag?  Microsoft?  I haven't subscribed for a year or two, but when I 
> > did it was very heavy unix - mostly Sun.  It's pretty sad if they are 
> > going to the dark side.  SA was one of the few trade rags I actually read 
> > (once Boardwatch started going south...)

For clarification, SA Mag is mostly UNIX focused, but the ads have a
MS slant.  The other magazines I listed are more MS focused.  All are
published by the same company, CMP.
-- 
scot

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From kcbnac at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 17:34:44 2005
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
Message-ID: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a Windows machine that when I did a reinstall, decided to
start formatting the wrong partition, I pulled the power on it when I
realized this.  Windows cannot see the partition, it sees it as a
blank drive, but Knoppix 3.6 and 3.7 see the partition as a normal
drive...so my question is, is there any command to forcefully write
the partition info that it sees to the drive?

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From wendigo at clancf.net  Mon Jan 10 18:02:13 2005
From: wendigo at clancf.net (Jim Masters)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
References: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c4f770$cf374440$1b00000a@jim>

I just read this knoppix recovery story.

http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/02/knpxhks_1.html

Might try gpart see if that works.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Bachman" <kcbnac@gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 5:34 PM
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?


> I've got a Windows machine that when I did a reinstall, decided to
> start formatting the wrong partition, I pulled the power on it when I
> realized this.  Windows cannot see the partition, it sees it as a
> blank drive, but Knoppix 3.6 and 3.7 see the partition as a normal
> drive...so my question is, is there any command to forcefully write
> the partition info that it sees to the drive?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 


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From newsposter at comcast.net  Mon Jan 10 17:50:24 2005
From: newsposter at comcast.net (Freddy Kruger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:37 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] need assistance, blown XFS_Raid5 set
Message-ID: <opskeu6ahq7pfw0j@smtp.comcast.net>

Had a linux storge appliance boot drive (not the raid drives) barf the  
other day and it looks as if I'm going to need some help recovering files.

The data should (I hope) be residing on three hard drives which are, I'm  
told, all in standard XFS-Raid5.

If anyone wants to offer me some help with the various xfs tools and  
mondorescue, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Email to newsposter at fribble barf comcast fubar dot snafu com

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From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Mon Jan 10 17:53:56 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
In-Reply-To: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E31594.2070400@comcast.net>

Keith Bachman wrote:

>I've got a Windows machine that when I did a reinstall, decided to
>start formatting the wrong partition, I pulled the power on it when I
>realized this.  Windows cannot see the partition, it sees it as a
>blank drive, but Knoppix 3.6 and 3.7 see the partition as a normal
>drive...so my question is, is there any command to forcefully write
>the partition info that it sees to the drive?
>
>  
>
Pick up the book "Knoppix Hacks"    By Kyle Rankin.  The book has all 
kinds of neat things you can do including recovery of the MBR.

Jerry W


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From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 22:21:59 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
In-Reply-To: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E35467.5040607@visi.com>

Well you may want to try using Fdisk.

You will need a windows 98 boot disk as NT/XP does not use Fdisk.

at the command prompt c:\fdisk /mbr

I don't think it will help but it may work.

You may be better off with Knoppix, I read something on slashdot today 
that talked about this sort of problem.

Hope this helps.

BTW... I was stopped at a stop sign about 9:15pm this evening and BANG. 
I got rear ended.
Blond, 17, big Americans, I still called the police.  The snow has 
turned crummy drivers, in to REALLY crummy drivers.
Be careful in the morning on the way to work, or when ever you work.

Sam.


Keith Bachman wrote:

>I've got a Windows machine that when I did a reinstall, decided to
>start formatting the wrong partition, I pulled the power on it when I
>realized this.  Windows cannot see the partition, it sees it as a
>blank drive, but Knoppix 3.6 and 3.7 see the partition as a normal
>drive...so my question is, is there any command to forcefully write
>the partition info that it sees to the drive?
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>  
>


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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Mon Jan 10 22:57:12 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
In-Reply-To: <41E35467.5040607@visi.com>
References: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
	<41E35467.5040607@visi.com>
Message-ID: <41E35CA8.5080405@cleosci.com>

What are "big Americans?"

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From smac at visi.com  Tue Jan 11 00:20:16 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
In-Reply-To: <41E35CA8.5080405@cleosci.com>
References: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>	<41E35467.5040607@visi.com>
	<41E35CA8.5080405@cleosci.com>
Message-ID: <41E3701F.6090207@visi.com>

I was being polite.
It's a line from a movie/comedy routine done by Cheech and Chong.

> What are "big Americans?


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From peter.chase at epredix.com  Tue Jan 11 08:28:59 2005
From: peter.chase at epredix.com (Peter Chase)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
Message-ID: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E64E2D@RENTXBE01.rent.local>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 09:11:38 2005
From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Signing up for SPAM
In-Reply-To: <20050110160606.A24732@thinkunix.net>
References: <F2F587B9DD51284EB3197919CADBC4680A204D@forums.20vturbo.com>
	<20050110134307.A11@thinkunix.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501101352410.18018@titan>
	<20050110215030.GA10416@callisto>
	<20050110160606.A24732@thinkunix.net>
Message-ID: <be0800f8050111071117a28711@mail.gmail.com>

also change any of the contact e-mail addresses to your test e-mail
address for any domains you own.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:06:06 -0600, Scot Jenkins <scot@thinkunix.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 01:57:06PM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote:
> > > On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote:
> > > >Sign up for a subscription to any of these magazines and you're sure to
> > > >[ ... ]
> > >
> > > SA Mag?  Microsoft?  I haven't subscribed for a year or two, but when I
> > > did it was very heavy unix - mostly Sun.  It's pretty sad if they are
> > > going to the dark side.  SA was one of the few trade rags I actually read
> > > (once Boardwatch started going south...)
> 
> For clarification, SA Mag is mostly UNIX focused, but the ads have a
> MS slant.  The other magazines I listed are more MS focused.  All are
> published by the same company, CMP.
> --
> scot
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
Loren H. Burlingame <loren@lhb.name>
GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
   -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock)

_______________________________________________
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From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 09:13:04 2005
From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
In-Reply-To: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E64E2D@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
References: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E64E2D@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
Message-ID: <be0800f805011107137b65b56@mail.gmail.com>

Let me reply for Dave Sherohman since he is not super active on the
list anymore :P

http://www.pogolinux.com/


On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:28:59 -0600, Peter Chase <peter.chase@epredix.com> wrote:
>  
> My company is looking for a good Linux rack mount server from a reputable
> vendor that has SATA drives and tons of capacity to do centralized logging. 
> I've been unable to find a good server from HP, IBM, or Dell, mostly because
> they're either Windows based or have SCSI disks.  I've found sites that have
> Linux SATA file servers, www.offmyserver.com and www.integritylinux.com, but
> I don't know much of their product or support quality.  Has anyone every
> purchased a server from either of these two vendors?  Does anyone have any
> other companies that could provide what I'm looking for? 
>   
> -Pete 
>   
> 
> ______________________________ 
> 
> Peter Chase 
> 
> Infrastructure Engineer 
> 
> ePredix, Inc. 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 


-- 
Loren H. Burlingame <loren@lhb.name>
GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
   -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock)

_______________________________________________
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From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 09:19:03 2005
From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (whiterabbit1)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
Message-ID: <307a337f05011107193c0e047@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:22:09 -0600, Larry Pint <larry.pint@ntuminc.com> wrote:
> It's my understanding that by charging him with terrorism, he can be
> held indefinitely without formal charges or hearings.  He can also be
> sentenced without a formal trial and doesn't have the normal legal
> protections.  And , without those due process checks, it's easy to
> charge someone.  In the name of terrorism prevention we have forfeited
> many of our rights.  (In my opinion, way too many.)  It seems to me that
> anyone charged with terrorism is stripped of all normal legal rights,
> and the definition of terrorism is so broad and vague that it can easily
> be applied to too many situations.
> 
> My not so humble opinion.  (I am not a lawyer.)
> 
> Larry Pint
> 
> 
If one is stupid enough to be pointing lasers at aircraft they deserve
all they get.

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 09:48:36 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <307a337f05011107193c0e047@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
	<307a337f05011107193c0e047@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c05011107487d3c330b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:19:03 -0600, whiterabbit1 <whiterabbit1@gmail.com> wrote:
> If one is stupid enough to be pointing lasers at aircraft they deserve
> all they get.

While I agree, America's laws dictate that the party involved has a
right to a fair trial by peers, have legal representation, and be
allowed the rights of any other person charged criminally.

I'm going to leave this thread alone after this post, as I don't think
any of us know enough of this specific case to determine if this guy
was held under the USA-PATRIOT Act, FAA regulatory violoations, or
otherwise.

IMHO, this guy is guilty of being criminally stupid, but I don't think
charges of terrorism would be warranted, except to "make an example"
of him, which is not what our court system should be used for.

Now on to bigger and better things.

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From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Tue Jan 11 10:06:17 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1e3a528.093@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip setup
on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup on
the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that when I
vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after that
including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also cannot
ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the Linksys
router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
interface on the Linksys router.

Any help is appreciated.

_______________________________________________
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From adam at askewview.net  Tue Jan 11 10:17:40 2005
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
In-Reply-To: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E64E2D@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
References: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E64E2D@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
Message-ID: <41E3FC24.20007@askewview.net>

Are you looking for hardware sata raid? The Dell PowerEdge SC1425 has 
onboard sata and is a 1u RM server but it does not have sata raid.

-Adam

Peter Chase wrote:

> My company is looking for a good Linux rack mount server from a 
> reputable vendor that has SATA drives and tons of capacity to do 
> centralized logging.  I've been unable to find a good server from HP, 
> IBM, or Dell, mostly because they're either Windows based or have SCSI 
> disks.  I've found sites that have Linux SATA file servers, 
> www.offmyserver.com <http://www.offmyserver.com/> and 
> www.integritylinux.com <http://www.integritylinux.com/>, but I don't 
> know much of their product or support quality.  Has anyone every 
> purchased a server from either of these two vendors?  Does anyone have 
> any other companies that could provide what I'm looking for?
>  
> -Pete
>  
>
> ______________________________
>
> Peter Chase
>
> Infrastructure Engineer
>
> ePredix, Inc.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
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From smac at visi.com  Tue Jan 11 10:35:08 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1e3a528.093@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
References: <s1e3a528.093@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <41E4003C.2000900@visi.com>


Need a little more information.

Linux
ifconfig  = results

M$
ipconfig /all = results

Joe Stuart wrote:

>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip setup
>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup on
>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that when I
>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after that
>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also cannot
>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the Linksys
>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
>interface on the Linksys router.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>  
>



-- 
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From peter.chase at epredix.com  Tue Jan 11 10:43:16 2005
From: peter.chase at epredix.com (Peter Chase)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:38 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
Message-ID: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E650AD@RENTXBE01.rent.local>

Yes, I am looking for hardware SATA RAID.  We're also looking for
something with more capacity than what the SC1425 has and with hot
swappable drives.

-Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Adam
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:18 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server

Are you looking for hardware sata raid? The Dell PowerEdge SC1425 has
onboard sata and is a 1u RM server but it does not have sata raid.

-Adam

Peter Chase wrote:

> My company is looking for a good Linux rack mount server from a 
> reputable vendor that has SATA drives and tons of capacity to do 
> centralized logging.  I've been unable to find a good server from HP, 
> IBM, or Dell, mostly because they're either Windows based or have SCSI

> disks.  I've found sites that have Linux SATA file servers, 
> www.offmyserver.com <http://www.offmyserver.com/> and 
> www.integritylinux.com <http://www.integritylinux.com/>, but I don't 
> know much of their product or support quality.  Has anyone every 
> purchased a server from either of these two vendors?  Does anyone have

> any other companies that could provide what I'm looking for?
>  
> -Pete
>  
>
> ______________________________
>
> Peter Chase
>
> Infrastructure Engineer
>
> ePredix, Inc.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota Help beta test 
>TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org Got pictures for 
>TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


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From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Tue Jan 11 10:56:49 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1e3b106.068@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.


ip address 192.168.1.5
gateway 192.168.1.1
netmask 255.255.255.0
dns 24.123.*.*

I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal interface
on the firewall

Let me know if you need anything more.

Thanks


>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>

Need a little more information.

Linux
ifconfig  = results

M$
ipconfig /all = results

Joe Stuart wrote:

>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
setup
>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup on
>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that when
I
>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after that
>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also cannot
>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
Linksys
>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
>interface on the Linksys router.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>
>
>  
>



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From chrome at real-time.com  Tue Jan 11 11:04:56 2005
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] internet keyboards
In-Reply-To: <16866.52423.687542.636401@gargle.gargle.HOWL>;
	from rpgoldman@real-time.com on Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:43:19PM
	-0600
References: <16863.2941.164963.513554@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<1105139238.31979.11.camel@gentoobox>
	<16864.17758.969594.436320@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<20050109145838.35a087c8.crc1021@myrealbox.com>
	<16866.52423.687542.636401@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20050111110456.A30271@real-time.com>

On 01/10 12:43 , rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote:
> >>>>> "Eric" == Eric Lofstad <crc1021@myrealbox.com> writes:
> 
>     Eric> Are you using a 2.6 kernel?  My internet keys do not work
>     Eric> with the 2.6 kernels, but do work with the 2.4 kernels.  I
>     Eric> have not found an answer yet, but have seen that the keys
>     Eric> were reworked in 2.6.
> 
> Yes, I am.  I'm still a little puzzled why scancodes treats the keys
> as "dead" (there's probably a better term for this, since the term
> "dead key" is used in connection with extended character sets, but I
> don't know what it is), while scancodes turn up in the logfiles.  One
> of many things I don't understand about input devices in Linux + X....

Try evrouter.
http://www.bedroomlan.org/~alexios/coding_evrouter.html

haven't tried it myself, but it looks like the author had the same problem
as you.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

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From mmurphy at tc-tech.com  Tue Jan 11 11:01:16 2005
From: mmurphy at tc-tech.com (Matt Murphy)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
In-Reply-To: <41E3FC24.20007@askewview.net>
References: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E64E2D@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
	<41E3FC24.20007@askewview.net>
Message-ID: <41E4065C.7040804@tc-tech.com>


It has 0 or 1 SATA raid, but only holds two drives! I'd think he's 
looking for more than 250GB?

When looking for something similar (4x250GB SATA RAID, 2.8ghz P4) I 
ended up just building my own box, it was half the price that a similar 
configuration from IBM would be, and 1/3 the cost of dell, and I used 
off the shelf components that I could replace at the local CompUSA if 
need be.

Matt Murphy
TC Tech

Adam wrote:
> Are you looking for hardware sata raid? The Dell PowerEdge SC1425 has 
> onboard sata and is a 1u RM server but it does not have sata raid.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> Peter Chase wrote:
> 
>> My company is looking for a good Linux rack mount server from a 
>> reputable vendor that has SATA drives and tons of capacity to do 
>> centralized logging.  I've been unable to find a good server from HP, 
>> IBM, or Dell, mostly because they're either Windows based or have SCSI 
>> disks.  I've found sites that have Linux SATA file servers, 
>> www.offmyserver.com <http://www.offmyserver.com/> and 
>> www.integritylinux.com <http://www.integritylinux.com/>, but I don't 
>> know much of their product or support quality.  Has anyone every 
>> purchased a server from either of these two vendors?  Does anyone have 
>> any other companies that could provide what I'm looking for?


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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Tue Jan 11 11:29:04 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [WAAAY OT] laser power meter
In-Reply-To: <307a337f05011107193c0e047@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41CEF44B.7020403@comcast.net> <E1Cid3o-0000bw-E6@odie.runbox.com>
	<FA50F309-61D4-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E1453D.4000507@visi.com>
	<79F6AF54-627C-11D9-8706-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>
	<41E29DA1.3090108@ntuminc.com>
	<307a337f05011107193c0e047@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050111172904.GA23234@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 09:19:03AM -0600, whiterabbit1 wrote:
> If one is stupid enough to be pointing lasers at aircraft they deserve
> all they get.

Anyone pointing lasers at aircraft deserves a proper trial with all due
rights granted by the constitution, like any other (alleged) criminal.

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

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From minnesotan at runbox.com  Tue Jan 11 11:40:10 2005
From: minnesotan at runbox.com (Randy Burns)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] GPG Key Signing - Thursday, January 20th,  2005 - 3pm
In-Reply-To: <20041215061218.GD23241@ry4an.org>
References: <20041215061218.GD23241@ry4an.org>
Message-ID: <1402052345.20050111114010@runbox.com>

Wednesday, December 15, 2004, 12:12:19 AM, you wrote:

> I'm holding another of my GPG key signing events on Thursday, January
> 20th, 2004 at 3pm on the U of MN East Bank Campus.  It's open to all,
> but preregistration is required.  Please see
> http://ry4an.org/keysigning/ for details.

Related (to the subject, not the event) Info:

"Improved" keyservers:

https://keyserver-beta.pgp.com/vkd/Help.event

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.privacy/msg/8e2bf718585ea7a6?dmode=source


Best,
Randy



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From ry4an-tclug at ry4an.org  Tue Jan 11 11:49:41 2005
From: ry4an-tclug at ry4an.org (Ry4an Brase)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] GPG Key Signing - Thursday, January 20th,  2005 - 3pm
In-Reply-To: <1402052345.20050111114010@runbox.com>
References: <20041215061218.GD23241@ry4an.org>
	<1402052345.20050111114010@runbox.com>
Message-ID: <20050111174940.GH20796@ry4an.org>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 11:40:10AM -0600, Randy Burns wrote:
> Wednesday, December 15, 2004, 12:12:19 AM, you wrote:
> 
> > I'm holding another of my GPG key signing events on Thursday, January
> > 20th, 2004 at 3pm on the U of MN East Bank Campus.  It's open to all,
> > but preregistration is required.  Please see
> > http://ry4an.org/keysigning/ for details.
> 
> Related (to the subject, not the event) Info:
> 
> "Improved" keyservers:
> 
> https://keyserver-beta.pgp.com/vkd/Help.event
> 
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.privacy/msg/8e2bf718585ea7a6?dmode=source

I looked at those key servers, and they've got some great features, but
I wasn't happy with their implementation.   When they sent me an email
asking me to confirm that the email address in my key was valid it came
in unencrypted, with a plain text password, and just a click needed to
claim it.  I know that's not integral to their trust mechanism, but it
still seems sloppy.  For now I'll stick with biglumber and the old
keyservers even though their lack of good deletion support is frustrating
as hell.

Incidentally, thanks to Randy for bringing up my pending key singing
again.  Details are still at http://ry4an.org/keysigning/

-- 
Ry4an Brase - http://ry4an.org/unblog/

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From josh at joshwelch.com  Tue Jan 11 12:40:20 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:39 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
In-Reply-To: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E650AD@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
References: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E650AD@RENTXBE01.rent.local>
Message-ID: <20050111124020.pod7oc0cqfuso4ww@moose.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Peter Chase <peter.chase@epredix.com>:

> Yes, I am looking for hardware SATA RAID.  We're also looking for
> something with more capacity than what the SC1425 has and with hot
> swappable drives.
>
> -Pete
>

Ahh, the 750 does not have that either. You might want to look at
penguincomputing.com, I have not used them but have heard good things about
them.


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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Tue Jan 11 13:18:35 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:40 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1e3b106.068@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
References: <s1e3b106.068@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <54696.63.228.57.26.1105471115.squirrel@63.228.57.26>

How is NAT set on the router?  Normally you cannot ping inside unless you
specifically tell the router to let people ping the inside addresses.

> Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
>
>
> ip address 192.168.1.5
> gateway 192.168.1.1
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> dns 24.123.*.*
>
> I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal interface
> on the firewall
>
> Let me know if you need anything more.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>
>
> Need a little more information.
>
> Linux
> ifconfig  = results
>
> M$
> ipconfig /all = results
>
> Joe Stuart wrote:
>
>>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
>>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
> setup
>>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup on
>>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that when
> I
>>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after that
>>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also cannot
>>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
> Linksys
>>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
>>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
>>interface on the Linksys router.
>>
>>Any help is appreciated.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



_______________________________________________
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
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From scot at thinkunix.net  Tue Jan 11 13:24:27 2005
From: scot at thinkunix.net (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:40 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1e3b106.068@edenpr.k12.mn.us>;
	from jstuart@edenpr.k12.mn.us on Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:56:49AM
	-0600
References: <s1e3b106.068@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20050111132427.A32715@thinkunix.net>

Joe Stuart wrote:
> Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
> 
> ip address 192.168.1.5
> gateway 192.168.1.1
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> dns 24.123.*.*
> 
> I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal interface
> on the firewall

Perhaps the firewall is denying ping requests?  Does it have a log you
can look at?

-- 
scot

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From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Tue Jan 11 13:38:14 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:40 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1e3d6cc.056@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

I disabled the firewall on the router.

>>> "Garrett Krueger" <gkrueger@cleosci.com> 01/11/05 01:18PM >>>
How is NAT set on the router?  Normally you cannot ping inside unless
you
specifically tell the router to let people ping the inside addresses.

> Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
>
>
> ip address 192.168.1.5
> gateway 192.168.1.1
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> dns 24.123.*.*
>
> I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal
interface
> on the firewall
>
> Let me know if you need anything more.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>
>
> Need a little more information.
>
> Linux
> ifconfig  = results
>
> M$
> ipconfig /all = results
>
> Joe Stuart wrote:
>
>>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
>>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
> setup
>>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup
on
>>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that
when
> I
>>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after
that
>>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also
cannot
>>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
> Linksys
>>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
>>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
>>interface on the Linksys router.
>>
>>Any help is appreciated.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date:
1/10/2005
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>



_______________________________________________
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
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_______________________________________________
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From dan at dandrake.org  Tue Jan 11 13:48:22 2005
From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:40 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] what to do about expiring GPG keys?
Message-ID: <20050111194821.GA8969@aleph-one>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
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From drue at therub.org  Tue Jan 11 13:52:34 2005
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:40 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1e3d6cc.056@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
References: <s1e3d6cc.056@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20050111195234.GY78303@therub.org>

*head explodes*

draw us a picture?

I don't get why your gateway isn't 192.168.1.2 (the internal address of
the firebox).  I don't get how your wireless router is setup (bridge
mode?).  Are you NATing twice?

dan

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> I disabled the firewall on the router.
> 
> >>> "Garrett Krueger" <gkrueger@cleosci.com> 01/11/05 01:18PM >>>
> How is NAT set on the router?  Normally you cannot ping inside unless
> you
> specifically tell the router to let people ping the inside addresses.
> 
> > Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
> >
> >
> > ip address 192.168.1.5
> > gateway 192.168.1.1
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > dns 24.123.*.*
> >
> > I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal
> interface
> > on the firewall
> >
> > Let me know if you need anything more.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>
> >
> > Need a little more information.
> >
> > Linux
> > ifconfig  = results
> >
> > M$
> > ipconfig /all = results
> >
> > Joe Stuart wrote:
> >
> >>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
> >>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
> > setup
> >>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup
> on
> >>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that
> when
> > I
> >>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after
> that
> >>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also
> cannot
> >>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
> > Linksys
> >>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
> >>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
> >>interface on the Linksys router.
> >>
> >>Any help is appreciated.
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> 
> >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date:
> 1/10/2005
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From nassarmu at redconcepts.net  Tue Jan 11 14:09:09 2005
From: nassarmu at redconcepts.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:41 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] what to do about expiring GPG keys?
In-Reply-To: <20050111194821.GA8969@aleph-one>
References: <20050111194821.GA8969@aleph-one>
Message-ID: <41E43265.6060201@redconcepts.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
From gfischer at member.fsf.org  Tue Jan 11 14:42:32 2005
From: gfischer at member.fsf.org (George Fischer)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:41 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Seeking recomendation for wireless PCMCIA cards
Message-ID: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>

I've got a Thinkpad 600E that I've been running Debian unstable on for a
couple of years.  Now I want to be able to use some local wireless
hotspots.  Does anyone have any experience/recommendations with wireless
PCMCIA cards?  Is any brand better than another?  

Thanks.


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Tue Jan 11 14:41:29 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1e3e59f.061@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

Sorry I dont know much about networking, but all I did to the wireless
router was gave it an external Ip of 192.168.1.4 set the gateway to
192.168.1.2, disabled the firewall and left the internal ip which is set
to 192.168.1.1 and connected the uplink port on the router to a regular
port on the firewall.  

Here is the info on both devices.

Firebox:
External IP: 24.123.*.*
External Gateway: 24.123.*.*
Dns Server: 24.123.*.*

Internal Ip: 192.168.1.2
Subnet 255.255.255.0

Firewall completely open going out and only allowing vpn connections
coming in.

Router:
External Ip: 192.168.1.4
External Gateway: 192.168.1.2
Dns 24.123.*.*

Internal Ip: 192.168.1.1
Submet 255.255.255.0

Firewall disabled.

Thanks,
Joe

>>> drue@therub.org 01/11/05 01:52PM >>>
*head explodes*

draw us a picture?

I don't get why your gateway isn't 192.168.1.2 (the internal address
of
the firebox).  I don't get how your wireless router is setup (bridge
mode?).  Are you NATing twice?

dan

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> I disabled the firewall on the router.
> 
> >>> "Garrett Krueger" <gkrueger@cleosci.com> 01/11/05 01:18PM >>>
> How is NAT set on the router?  Normally you cannot ping inside
unless
> you
> specifically tell the router to let people ping the inside
addresses.
> 
> > Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
> >
> >
> > ip address 192.168.1.5
> > gateway 192.168.1.1
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > dns 24.123.*.*
> >
> > I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal
> interface
> > on the firewall
> >
> > Let me know if you need anything more.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>
> >
> > Need a little more information.
> >
> > Linux
> > ifconfig  = results
> >
> > M$
> > ipconfig /all = results
> >
> > Joe Stuart wrote:
> >
> >>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
> >>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
> > setup
> >>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup
> on
> >>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that
> when
> > I
> >>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after
> that
> >>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also
> cannot
> >>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
> > Linksys
> >>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
> >>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
> >>interface on the Linksys router.
> >>
> >>Any help is appreciated.
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> 
> >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date:
> 1/10/2005
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 14:49:56 2005
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Howto write partition table?
In-Reply-To: <41E35467.5040607@visi.com>
References: <32fd4537050110153441e2606d@mail.gmail.com>
	<41E35467.5040607@visi.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b02050111124969022f6e@mail.gmail.com>

2000/XP CDs are bootable and have a rescue mode. Bootinto the recovery
console, run chkdsk. There is also a tool for fixing the mbr....but I
don't recall what it is off the top of my head.
-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
 A password is like your underwear; Change it
 frequently, don't share it with others, and
     don't ask to borrow someone else's.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 14:48:26 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Seeking recomendation for wireless PCMCIA cards
In-Reply-To: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>
References: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f05011112486c585e2f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:42:32 -0600, George Fischer
<gfischer@member.fsf.org> wrote:
> I've got a Thinkpad 600E that I've been running Debian unstable on for a
> couple of years.  Now I want to be able to use some local wireless
> hotspots.  Does anyone have any experience/recommendations with wireless
> PCMCIA cards?  Is any brand better than another?

Hi George - all I use are Cisco Aironet 350 cards - they're awesome. 
A bit more pricey than most, but they have killer rf performance.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
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From drue at therub.org  Tue Jan 11 15:02:34 2005
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1e3e59f.061@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
References: <s1e3e59f.061@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20050111210234.GZ78303@therub.org>

Ok, here's your problem.  You wireless access point isn't configured
correctly.  Your "router", which i'll refer to as your wireless access
point from now on, or WAP, is NATing.  So is your firewall.  Only NAT
once!  Also, both devices are handling DHCP - it's a mess.

You should look for a 'bridge mode' option in your WAP.  If I were at
home i'd look at mine and tell you exactly what it's called.

Turn off NAT, turn off DHCP.  That's the job of your firebox.  Then the
wireless devices will use 192.168.1.2 as their default gateway (the
firebox).  Think of the WAP as simply a wireless switch - that's all you
want it to do.

Let me know if you're still having problems and i'll probe my
configuration at home and tell you more specifically.  I run almost the
same configuration as you do.

Dan

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 02:41:29PM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> Sorry I dont know much about networking, but all I did to the wireless
> router was gave it an external Ip of 192.168.1.4 set the gateway to
> 192.168.1.2, disabled the firewall and left the internal ip which is set
> to 192.168.1.1 and connected the uplink port on the router to a regular
> port on the firewall.  
> 
> Here is the info on both devices.
> 
> Firebox:
> External IP: 24.123.*.*
> External Gateway: 24.123.*.*
> Dns Server: 24.123.*.*
> 
> Internal Ip: 192.168.1.2
> Subnet 255.255.255.0
> 
> Firewall completely open going out and only allowing vpn connections
> coming in.
> 
> Router:
> External Ip: 192.168.1.4
> External Gateway: 192.168.1.2
> Dns 24.123.*.*
> 
> Internal Ip: 192.168.1.1
> Submet 255.255.255.0
> 
> Firewall disabled.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe
> 
> >>> drue@therub.org 01/11/05 01:52PM >>>
> *head explodes*
> 
> draw us a picture?
> 
> I don't get why your gateway isn't 192.168.1.2 (the internal address
> of
> the firebox).  I don't get how your wireless router is setup (bridge
> mode?).  Are you NATing twice?
> 
> dan
> 
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> > I disabled the firewall on the router.
> > 
> > >>> "Garrett Krueger" <gkrueger@cleosci.com> 01/11/05 01:18PM >>>
> > How is NAT set on the router?  Normally you cannot ping inside
> unless
> > you
> > specifically tell the router to let people ping the inside
> addresses.
> > 
> > > Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
> > >
> > >
> > > ip address 192.168.1.5
> > > gateway 192.168.1.1
> > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > dns 24.123.*.*
> > >
> > > I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal
> > interface
> > > on the firewall
> > >
> > > Let me know if you need anything more.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>
> > >
> > > Need a little more information.
> > >
> > > Linux
> > > ifconfig  = results
> > >
> > > M$
> > > ipconfig /all = results
> > >
> > > Joe Stuart wrote:
> > >
> > >>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard firebox
> > >>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
> > > setup
> > >>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2 setup
> > on
> > >>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is that
> > when
> > > I
> > >>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after
> > that
> > >>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also
> > cannot
> > >>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
> > > Linksys
> > >>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because the
> > >>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the external
> > >>interface on the Linksys router.
> > >>
> > >>Any help is appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > 
> > >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> 
> > >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date:
> > 1/10/2005
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > 
> > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> 
> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > 
> > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> 
> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From gushie at ziggyco.com  Tue Jan 11 15:20:51 2005
From: gushie at ziggyco.com (Bryan Thieling)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Seeking recomendation for wireless PCMCIA cards
In-Reply-To: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>
References: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>
Message-ID: <41E44333.5030907@ziggyco.com>

I've been using a Netgear WG511 without any problems in Gentoo.  It 
worked right after installation was finished.

George Fischer wrote:

>I've got a Thinkpad 600E that I've been running Debian unstable on for a
>couple of years.  Now I want to be able to use some local wireless
>hotspots.  Does anyone have any experience/recommendations with wireless
>PCMCIA cards?  Is any brand better than another?  
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>  
>


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Tue Jan 11 15:20:06 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1e3eeb1.084@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

Thank you very much.  I wont be able to get to the router until later
this week, but I'll let you know if there is still problems.

Thanks again,
Joe

>>> drue@therub.org 01/11/05 03:02PM >>>
Ok, here's your problem.  You wireless access point isn't configured
correctly.  Your "router", which i'll refer to as your wireless access
point from now on, or WAP, is NATing.  So is your firewall.  Only NAT
once!  Also, both devices are handling DHCP - it's a mess.

You should look for a 'bridge mode' option in your WAP.  If I were at
home i'd look at mine and tell you exactly what it's called.

Turn off NAT, turn off DHCP.  That's the job of your firebox.  Then
the
wireless devices will use 192.168.1.2 as their default gateway (the
firebox).  Think of the WAP as simply a wireless switch - that's all
you
want it to do.

Let me know if you're still having problems and i'll probe my
configuration at home and tell you more specifically.  I run almost
the
same configuration as you do.

Dan

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 02:41:29PM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> Sorry I dont know much about networking, but all I did to the
wireless
> router was gave it an external Ip of 192.168.1.4 set the gateway to
> 192.168.1.2, disabled the firewall and left the internal ip which is
set
> to 192.168.1.1 and connected the uplink port on the router to a
regular
> port on the firewall.  
> 
> Here is the info on both devices.
> 
> Firebox:
> External IP: 24.123.*.*
> External Gateway: 24.123.*.*
> Dns Server: 24.123.*.*
> 
> Internal Ip: 192.168.1.2
> Subnet 255.255.255.0
> 
> Firewall completely open going out and only allowing vpn connections
> coming in.
> 
> Router:
> External Ip: 192.168.1.4
> External Gateway: 192.168.1.2
> Dns 24.123.*.*
> 
> Internal Ip: 192.168.1.1
> Submet 255.255.255.0
> 
> Firewall disabled.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe
> 
> >>> drue@therub.org 01/11/05 01:52PM >>>
> *head explodes*
> 
> draw us a picture?
> 
> I don't get why your gateway isn't 192.168.1.2 (the internal address
> of
> the firebox).  I don't get how your wireless router is setup (bridge
> mode?).  Are you NATing twice?
> 
> dan
> 
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:38:14PM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> > I disabled the firewall on the router.
> > 
> > >>> "Garrett Krueger" <gkrueger@cleosci.com> 01/11/05 01:18PM >>>
> > How is NAT set on the router?  Normally you cannot ping inside
> unless
> > you
> > specifically tell the router to let people ping the inside
> addresses.
> > 
> > > Machine on the internal network plugged into the Linksys router.
> > >
> > >
> > > ip address 192.168.1.5
> > > gateway 192.168.1.1
> > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > dns 24.123.*.*
> > >
> > > I cannot ping the 192.168.1.2 address which is the internal
> > interface
> > > on the firewall
> > >
> > > Let me know if you need anything more.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >>>> smac@visi.com 01/11/05 10:35AM >>>
> > >
> > > Need a little more information.
> > >
> > > Linux
> > > ifconfig  = results
> > >
> > > M$
> > > ipconfig /all = results
> > >
> > > Joe Stuart wrote:
> > >
> > >>I have a wireless Linksys router setup behind a Watchguard
firebox
> > >>firewall with a vpn setup on the firebox.  I have an external Ip
> > > setup
> > >>on the external interface  and an internal ip of 192.168.1.2
setup
> > on
> > >>the internal interface of the firebox. The problem I have is
that
> > when
> > > I
> > >>vpn in I can only ping the 192.168.1.2 address and nothing after
> > that
> > >>including the Linksys router right behind the firewall. I also
> > cannot
> > >>ping the internal interface of the firebox when plugged into the
> > > Linksys
> > >>router.  Which you would think I should be able to do, because
the
> > >>internal interface of the firebox is the gateway for the
external
> > >>interface on the Linksys router.
> > >>
> > >>Any help is appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > >>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > 
> > >>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test
http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> 
> > >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date:
> > 1/10/2005
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > 
> > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test
http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> 
> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > 
> > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test
http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> 
> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 15:54:14 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Seeking recomendation for wireless PCMCIA cards
In-Reply-To: <41E44333.5030907@ziggyco.com>
References: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com> <41E44333.5030907@ziggyco.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f05011113543fe48727@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:20:51 -0600, Bryan Thieling <gushie@ziggyco.com> wrote:
> I've been using a Netgear WG511 without any problems in Gentoo.  It
> worked right after installation was finished.

Hehe - yeah, I've actually done a full Gentoo install using a Cisco wifi card.

_______________________________________________
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From minnesotan at runbox.com  Tue Jan 11 16:01:38 2005
From: minnesotan at runbox.com (Randy Burns)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:42 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] what to do about expiring GPG keys?
In-Reply-To: <20050111194821.GA8969@aleph-one>
References: <20050111194821.GA8969@aleph-one>
Message-ID: <E1CoU54-0000lb-TS@fetch.runbox.com>

> I just noticed that my GPG key expires this Thursday. What's the correct
> protocol for generating a new one? Should I generate an entirely new
> keypair, or can I make a new key that uses the old userid or something?
> Can I make a new subkey and delete the expired subkey? (I don't entirely
> understand subkeys...)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan

On the same topic:

http://tinyurl.com/6a7yh

Randy

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From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Tue Jan 11 16:04:08 2005
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
Message-ID: <s1e3f8fc.064@mdh-gw1.health.state.mn.us>

Strange that Dell has san offerings that include 3+ sata drives, 
but not servers. :-(

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W463&l=en&oc=emc-ax100spDAS&s=bsd#bottom_anchor

>>> peter.chase@epredix.com 01/11/05 10:43 AM >>>
Yes, I am looking for hardware SATA RAID.  We're also looking for
something with more capacity than what the SC1425 has and with hot
swappable drives.


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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Jan 12 07:24:21 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501121324.j0CDOLM27177@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: New 400 GB SimpleTech External Hard Drive USB 2.0

This is a brand new item!
I am selling this drive on eBay
(sorry for the blanks in the URL... the classifieds think this is a overly long word ;-):
http:// members.ebay.com/ aboutme/ cooljava

And TCLUG members that pickup this drive in person will receive a 10% discount on the final selling price of this item! 
I will eat the sales tax (which would be 6.5% on top of the final price) and rebate you 3.5% based on the final price.

Seller Email address: tmarble at info9 dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Jan 12 07:53:31 2005
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
Message-ID: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
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From dan at dandrake.org  Wed Jan 12 09:26:03 2005
From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] what to do about expiring GPG keys?
In-Reply-To: <E1CoU54-0000lb-TS@fetch.runbox.com>
References: <20050111194821.GA8969@aleph-one>
	<E1CoU54-0000lb-TS@fetch.runbox.com>
Message-ID: <20050112152603.GA13856@aleph-one>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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From smac at visi.com  Wed Jan 12 09:36:09 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
In-Reply-To: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
References: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <1105544169.41e543e9a9c20@my.visi.com>

I just installed Fedora Core 3x64 it has Evolution 2.0.
I haven't really looked for the short cut bar... It does look great on the +
side.

I googled it...
http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/evolution-hackers/2003-July/000636.html

I do believe the short cut bar is history.



Sam.



Quoting Jon Schewe <jpschewe@mtu.net>:

> I just upgraded my SuSE system to 9.2 last night and noticed that
> Evolution has been upgraded from 1.4.x to 2.x.  It looks nice and clean,
> however I can't seem to find the shortcut bar.  I've found this to be
> very useful, can anyone tell me where to find it?




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From jkjones at tcq.net  Wed Jan 12 09:33:12 2005
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
In-Reply-To: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
References: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <1105543992.5494.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-01-12 at 07:53 -0600, Jon Schewe wrote:
> I just upgraded my SuSE system to 9.2 last night and noticed that
> Evolution has been upgraded from 1.4.x to 2.x.  It looks nice and
> clean, however I can't seem to find the shortcut bar.  I've found this
> to bv beery useful, can anyone tell me where to find it?
> 
> 
Yep, Evolution 2.0 is a big step backward.  Its most useful feature, the
Summary view, is gone; now there's something called Exchange that
doesn't do much of anything that I can see.  Can anyone tell me how to
get back to 1.4?

Kraig


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From smac at visi.com  Wed Jan 12 09:37:48 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
In-Reply-To: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
References: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <1105544268.41e5444c26cb6@my.visi.com>

And this one...

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2004-September/msg00045.html

Sam.

Quoting Jon Schewe <jpschewe@mtu.net>:

> I just upgraded my SuSE system to 9.2 last night and noticed that
> Evolution has been upgraded from 1.4.x to 2.x.  It looks nice and clean,
> however I can't seem to find the shortcut bar.  I've found this to be
> very useful, can anyone tell me where to find it?




_______________________________________________
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Jan 12 09:54:21 2005
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
In-Reply-To: <1105543992.5494.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
	<1105543992.5494.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1105545260.2006.14.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 10:39:32 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
In-Reply-To: <s1e3f8fc.064@mdh-gw1.health.state.mn.us>
References: <s1e3f8fc.064@mdh-gw1.health.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <914f813c05011208398aba1e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:04:08 -0600, Troy.A Johnson
<troy.johnson@health.state.mn.us> wrote:
> Strange that Dell has san offerings that include 3+ sata drives,
> but not servers. :-(

Not really; this way they get you to buy a SAN *AND* a server!

Which, Peter, begs the question: is that an option? I've seen numerous
Linux-based IDE or SATA RAID SAN products; one of those may provide a
good alternative.

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 10:36:17 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:43 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <20050111210234.GZ78303@therub.org>
References: <s1e3e59f.061@edenpr.k12.mn.us> <20050111210234.GZ78303@therub.org>
Message-ID: <914f813c05011208362da0b55e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:02:34 -0600, Dan Rue <drue@therub.org> wrote:
> Ok, here's your problem.  You wireless access point isn't configured
> correctly.  Your "router", which i'll refer to as your wireless access
> point from now on, or WAP, is NATing.  So is your firewall.  Only NAT
> once!  Also, both devices are handling DHCP - it's a mess.

The bigger problem, I think, is that you've tried to assign both the
internal and external sides of the Wireless router the same subnet. So
when you ping 192.168.1.2, it's looking for that host on the  Wireless
side.

> You should look for a 'bridge mode' option in your WAP.  If I were at
> home i'd look at mine and tell you exactly what it's called.
> 
> Turn off NAT, turn off DHCP.  That's the job of your firebox.  Then the
> wireless devices will use 192.168.1.2 as their default gateway (the
> firebox).  Think of the WAP as simply a wireless switch - that's all you
> want it to do.

Keep in mind here, by having an unfirewalled wireless connection, you
provide mediocre protection (at best) to your internal network. If
this is a non-critical network (which it probably isn't, considering
you invested in a Firebox) no biggie.

Were I in your shoes, I would instead connect the Wireless router to
the firebox in bridged mode, and then set up a separate zone on the
firebox, segmented from anything on the wired side.

Sorta like this:
                                     _---[wlan]-192.168.1.x/24
-net---[rtr]--[firebox]--|
                                     |_---[lan]-192.168.2.x/24

(That's gonna be f***ed up with a fixed font...)

It sounds like this may be what you're trying. What you actually use
for subnet addresses (192.168.1.x/24, say) doesn't matter, so long as
they're different. Otherwise, your firewall doesn't actually know
which subnet to look to.

What's happening instead, is something like this:
--net--[rtr]--[24.123.x.x--firebox--192.168.1.2]--[192.168.1.4--wlan--192.168.1.1]----[PCs]

Hopefully this makes sense...I'll try to explain this some so you
understand what's up a bit better.

Dan said your firebox is doing NAT, (Network Address Translation)
which it is. This is evidenced by the fact that the firebox has two IP
addresses in different subnets.

The wireless router is trying to do the same thing, only both sides
are in the same subnet. The wireless router can't decide where to go
with 192.168.1.x traffic, so it's going to stay inside by default,
which is why you can't ping your firebox.

As Dan said, you should put the wireless router into bridged mode
(think: hub) which will make your network (at least the wireless
portion) look like this:

--net--[rtr]--[24.123.x.x--firebox--192.168.1.2]--[wap]--[192.168.1.x--PCs]

The wireless router is now doing nothing but taking traffic from the
wired side and passing it to the wireless, and vice-versa.

Long winded, and not very coherent, (not enough coffee) but I hope
this helps some.

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From peter.chase at epredix.com  Wed Jan 12 11:50:15 2005
From: peter.chase at epredix.com (Peter Chase)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux central logging server
Message-ID: <CDC26C59B5B0E74E8276FE547CEC3434E9E9E7@RENTXBE01.rent.local>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
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From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 14:54:51 2005
From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Seeking recomendation for wireless PCMCIA cards
In-Reply-To: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>
References: <87vfa33dfr.fsf@visi.com>
Message-ID: <9d6c82530501121254c9250da@mail.gmail.com>

I've used the prism2 chipset both usb and pcmcia (el cheapo cards)
without too much problems under Debian.  Testing and unstable have
pre-built linux-wlan-ng modules for a 2.4.27 kernel.  The last time I
tried to compile the modules for a 2.6 kernel, it didn't work using
the Debian package version.  I had to use the origianal source.

My cards were a D-Link pcmcia card and a Synaptic USB wireless ($4.95
after rebate).  The USB device seemed to have better signal pickup but
the connection seems faulty.  I now have to play with the elbow to get
a good connection from the computer to the device.

-- 
Jeff Rasmussen
GPG public key 0x9686C12F

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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 16:17:36 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Seeking recomendation for wireless PCMCIA cards
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f05011113543fe48727@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41e5a209.05761ca4.58f7.0083@smtp.gmail.com>

I need a few computers with 4isa slots to run a dos application...
Anyone have a good source? Online or otherwise for really really old pcs? I
am looking at pre pentium 200 mostly. My eyes are bleeding from reading ebay
descriptions.
I don't really care about any other aspect of the computers. 

Thanks,
Chris 


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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 16:18:34 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f05011113543fe48727@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>

Sorry I sent this the first time with the wrong subject...

I need a few computers with 4isa slots to run a dos application...
Anyone have a good source? Online or otherwise for really really old pcs? I
am looking at pre pentium 200 mostly. My eyes are bleeding from reading ebay
descriptions.
I don't really care about any other aspect of the computers. 

Thanks,
Chris 


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From danbsmith at comcast.net  Wed Jan 12 17:41:28 2005
From: danbsmith at comcast.net (Dan Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
In-Reply-To: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E5B5A8.9000901@comcast.net>

Chris Smith wrote:

>Sorry I sent this the first time with the wrong subject...
>
>I need a few computers with 4isa slots to run a dos application...
>Anyone have a good source? Online or otherwise for really really old pcs? I
>am looking at pre pentium 200 mostly. My eyes are bleeding from reading ebay
>descriptions.
>I don't really care about any other aspect of the computers. 
>
>Thanks,
>Chris 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>  
>
Chris -

I have a Ibm that is a pentium 90mhz(or somewhere close to that) I do 
know that it has 4isa and 3pci slots it has, but if you want it you can 
have it, also it has no HDD or CD rom in it.  Let me know

Thanks,

Dan
danbsmith@comcast.net


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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Wed Jan 12 19:26:16 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
Message-ID: <200501130126167085da00aa@mail.smumn.edu>

I have an Arcom PIII 533Mhz specially to run hardware (ISA slots) under DOS. You can add another CPU and more RAM. I am currently using it as an Active Directory box.


If you're interested e-mail me.

sdalan04@smumn.edu

David


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From sfertch at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 20:02:11 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
In-Reply-To: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <fc40260f05011113543fe48727@mail.gmail.com>
	<41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a0501121802401ed6fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:18:34 -0600, Chris Smith
<christophermsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry I sent this the first time with the wrong subject...
> 
> I need a few computers with 4isa slots to run a dos application...
> Anyone have a good source? Online or otherwise for really really old pcs? I
> am looking at pre pentium 200 mostly. My eyes are bleeding from reading ebay
> descriptions.
> I don't really care about any other aspect of the computers.
> 

I may have some.  I'll take a look and see what I've got.  Some will
most likely be boards only.

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 20:52:51 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0501121802401ed6fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc40260f05011113543fe48727@mail.gmail.com>
	<41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a0501121802401ed6fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bab831e05011218525a2c7d45@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, thanks everyone for all the responses.  Let me sort through them
tomorrow. (its about 9pm right now.) and i'll touch base.

Thanks Again.
Chris (beginning to believe DOS will make a comeback)


On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:02:11 -0600, Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:18:34 -0600, Chris Smith
> <christophermsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry I sent this the first time with the wrong subject...
> >
> > I need a few computers with 4isa slots to run a dos application...
> > Anyone have a good source? Online or otherwise for really really old pcs? I
> > am looking at pre pentium 200 mostly. My eyes are bleeding from reading ebay
> > descriptions.
> > I don't really care about any other aspect of the computers.
> >
> 
> I may have some.  I'll take a look and see what I've got.  Some will
> most likely be boards only.
> 
> --
> -Shawn
> 
> -Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

_______________________________________________
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From smac at visi.com  Wed Jan 12 21:44:47 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
In-Reply-To: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E5EEAF.4090307@visi.com>

I may be able to get you
1 or 2 Compaq 386s20's
I also know of an old Compaq server 496.

Sam.

Chris Smith wrote:

>Sorry I sent this the first time with the wrong subject...
>
>I need a few computers with 4isa slots to run a dos application...
>Anyone have a good source? Online or otherwise for really really old pcs? I
>am looking at pre pentium 200 mostly. My eyes are bleeding from reading ebay
>descriptions.
>I don't really care about any other aspect of the computers. 
>
>Thanks,
>Chris 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>  
>



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005


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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Jan 12 23:33:56 2005
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with Subversion hotcopy
Message-ID: <41E60844.2040500@mtu.net>

I've just started using subversion and decided that I need backups of 
it, therefore I'm using svnadmin hotcopy.  However when I run it I get 
"svn: Invalid argument".  I'm using subversion 1.0.8.  Does anyone know 
what this means?  Google doesn't really have any answers and neither 
does the subversion website.  I did nottice that the __db.* file didn't 
copy.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
GPG signature at http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/gpg.sig.html
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39


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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 08:44:03 2005
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
Message-ID: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the OT post, but I need some advice.  I'm being pressured to
finish up my 2 year degree program, and I'm trying to find the best
way to go about it.  I have 2 years worth of credits from a tech
college, but I'm short a few classes.  The problem is, these classes
can't be taken over the internet or at night.  Is there a good local
college where I could finish up my degree easily?

-Brian

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From kb9wob at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 08:49:47 2005
From: kb9wob at gmail.com (Storm Man)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e60a2379050113064942dacc80@mail.gmail.com>

I suppose it depends on what you're looking for in terms of a degree. 
When my wife and I got married and moved to Saint Paul she had three
years done of a 4 year program with a potential for a double major in
Writing and Biology.  She transfered to Metropolitan State University
in Saint Paul where they would only accept a certain number of
credits.  She ended up needing to do 1 year for the biology class and
then with the BS in Bio, she could get an MS in writing with the
writing credits she already had.

It's something to look into.  They have independent study classes,
online courses (I think), and like three campuses.

www.metrostate.edu

Is the URL, I think.

Good luck!
Kevin


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:44:03 -0600, Brian Wall <kc0iog@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT post, but I need some advice.  I'm being pressured to
> finish up my 2 year degree program, and I'm trying to find the best
> way to go about it.  I have 2 years worth of credits from a tech
> college, but I'm short a few classes.  The problem is, these classes
> can't be taken over the internet or at night.  Is there a good local
> college where I could finish up my degree easily?
> 
> -Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
Star Trek Enterprise was renewed for a 4th season.  Without increased
viewership season 5 will not be a reality!  Tune into UPN on Friday
nights this fall.

_______________________________________________
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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Thu Jan 13 09:01:32 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
Message-ID: <200501131501323985da41dd@mail.smumn.edu>

Dam doode, its all good. Next thing you know we're gonna have people asking for marriage counseling. I am no highschool counselour, but I believe if you take these courses at ANY community college they have to be accepted by your previous Tech school and you will be graduated, you know what I mean. All community colleges have a wide variaty and availability of classes. Also, there is a completion B.S. at my school, its called Information Technology and let me tell you its no joke. www.smumn.edu Look it up in (under grad). Good luck.


Dave

It sucks!
To be you too! 


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From jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com  Thu Jan 13 09:18:03 2005
From: jreynolds5 at mn.rr.com (Jason Reynolds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:44 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
In-Reply-To: <e60a2379050113064942dacc80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501131508.j0DF8GxF010397@ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com>

I know someone who goes to MetroState. I know they have some classes which
are part online and part in class. You may goto class every other week
instead of once a week. The rest of the time is spend in online discussions
etc...

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Storm Man
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:50 AM
To: Brian Wall; TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree

I suppose it depends on what you're looking for in terms of a degree. 
When my wife and I got married and moved to Saint Paul she had three
years done of a 4 year program with a potential for a double major in
Writing and Biology.  She transfered to Metropolitan State University
in Saint Paul where they would only accept a certain number of
credits.  She ended up needing to do 1 year for the biology class and
then with the BS in Bio, she could get an MS in writing with the
writing credits she already had.

It's something to look into.  They have independent study classes,
online courses (I think), and like three campuses.

www.metrostate.edu

Is the URL, I think.

Good luck!
Kevin


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:44:03 -0600, Brian Wall <kc0iog@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT post, but I need some advice.  I'm being pressured to
> finish up my 2 year degree program, and I'm trying to find the best
> way to go about it.  I have 2 years worth of credits from a tech
> college, but I'm short a few classes.  The problem is, these classes
> can't be taken over the internet or at night.  Is there a good local
> college where I could finish up my degree easily?
> 
> -Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
Star Trek Enterprise was renewed for a 4th season.  Without increased
viewership season 5 will not be a reality!  Tune into UPN on Friday
nights this fall.

_______________________________________________
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From tsinks at isd.net  Thu Jan 13 09:22:20 2005
From: tsinks at isd.net (Tim Sinks)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
References: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
	<e60a2379050113064942dacc80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c4f983$b1a48e00$0300000a@net.tsinks>

Dear Brian,
Here is the web site for the MN State Colleges and Universities. This
includes all the old state schools and the regional tech schools which are
all now part of the same org.
http://www.mnscu.edu/

http://www.mnscu.edu/campuses/index.html

Depending on your location pick a few out and call someone at the school in
the info center or enrollment. They pretty well know what most of the local
area schools can help you with. St. Paul, Hennepin or Inver Hills have good
tech areas. The web site for the particular schools may help get you
started.
You can also check out the local private schools which include online ones -
Capella.
Here is a place that list most all of the computer schools and
certification -
http://www.find-computer-schools.com/

Keep looking up,
Tim Sinks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Storm Man" <kb9wob@gmail.com>
To: "Brian Wall" <kc0iog@gmail.com>; "TCLUG Mailing List"
<tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree


> I suppose it depends on what you're looking for in terms of a degree.
> When my wife and I got married and moved to Saint Paul she had three
> years done of a 4 year program with a potential for a double major in
> Writing and Biology.  She transfered to Metropolitan State University
> in Saint Paul where they would only accept a certain number of
> credits.  She ended up needing to do 1 year for the biology class and
> then with the BS in Bio, she could get an MS in writing with the
> writing credits she already had.
>
> It's something to look into.  They have independent study classes,
> online courses (I think), and like three campuses.
>
> www.metrostate.edu
>
> Is the URL, I think.
>
> Good luck!
> Kevin
>
>
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:44:03 -0600, Brian Wall <kc0iog@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry for the OT post, but I need some advice.  I'm being pressured to
> > finish up my 2 year degree program, and I'm trying to find the best
> > way to go about it.  I have 2 years worth of credits from a tech
> > college, but I'm short a few classes.  The problem is, these classes
> > can't be taken over the internet or at night.  Is there a good local
> > college where I could finish up my degree easily?
> >
> > -Brian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> -- 
> Star Trek Enterprise was renewed for a 4th season.  Without increased
> viewership season 5 will not be a reality!  Tune into UPN on Friday
> nights this fall.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


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From rwh at visi.com  Thu Jan 13 09:46:06 2005
From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E697BE.9090103@visi.com>

Transfer policys vary quite a bit from school to school so I think I'd 
check with an adviser at the tech school to get the details on their 
transfer policy. Then try and find some place locally that is more 
convenient for filling out the requirements and transfer them back to 
finish the degree. Its been a long time since I had to worry about it, 
but in general it was easier to transfer credits outside of your field 
of study than those for classes for core courses, but the whole things 
is pretty ad hoc so I'd start with an academic counselor at the tech 
school and see what they say.

--rick





Brian Wall wrote:

>Sorry for the OT post, but I need some advice.  I'm being pressured to
>finish up my 2 year degree program, and I'm trying to find the best
>way to go about it.  I have 2 years worth of credits from a tech
>college, but I'm short a few classes.  The problem is, these classes
>can't be taken over the internet or at night.  Is there a good local
>college where I could finish up my degree easily?
>
>-Brian
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>  
>


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From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu Jan 13 09:51:42 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Problem with Subversion hotcopy
In-Reply-To: <41E60844.2040500@mtu.net>
References: <41E60844.2040500@mtu.net>
Message-ID: <20050113155142.GA4515@wookimus.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Thu Jan 13 10:00:52 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1e646ea.039@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I cannot
figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model of the
router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The linksys
website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some conversations on
google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be done. 



>>> "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss@gmail.com> 01/12/05 10:36AM >>>
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:02:34 -0600, Dan Rue <drue@therub.org> wrote:
> Ok, here's your problem.  You wireless access point isn't configured
> correctly.  Your "router", which i'll refer to as your wireless
access
> point from now on, or WAP, is NATing.  So is your firewall.  Only
NAT
> once!  Also, both devices are handling DHCP - it's a mess.

The bigger problem, I think, is that you've tried to assign both the
internal and external sides of the Wireless router the same subnet. So
when you ping 192.168.1.2, it's looking for that host on the  Wireless
side.

> You should look for a 'bridge mode' option in your WAP.  If I were
at
> home i'd look at mine and tell you exactly what it's called.
> 
> Turn off NAT, turn off DHCP.  That's the job of your firebox.  Then
the
> wireless devices will use 192.168.1.2 as their default gateway (the
> firebox).  Think of the WAP as simply a wireless switch - that's all
you
> want it to do.

Keep in mind here, by having an unfirewalled wireless connection, you
provide mediocre protection (at best) to your internal network. If
this is a non-critical network (which it probably isn't, considering
you invested in a Firebox) no biggie.

Were I in your shoes, I would instead connect the Wireless router to
the firebox in bridged mode, and then set up a separate zone on the
firebox, segmented from anything on the wired side.

Sorta like this:
                                     _---[wlan]-192.168.1.x/24
-net---[rtr]--[firebox]--|
                                     |_---[lan]-192.168.2.x/24

(That's gonna be f***ed up with a fixed font...)

It sounds like this may be what you're trying. What you actually use
for subnet addresses (192.168.1.x/24, say) doesn't matter, so long as
they're different. Otherwise, your firewall doesn't actually know
which subnet to look to.

What's happening instead, is something like this:
--net--[rtr]--[24.123.x.x--firebox--192.168.1.2]--[192.168.1.4--wlan--192.168.1.1]----[PCs]

Hopefully this makes sense...I'll try to explain this some so you
understand what's up a bit better.

Dan said your firebox is doing NAT, (Network Address Translation)
which it is. This is evidenced by the fact that the firebox has two IP
addresses in different subnets.

The wireless router is trying to do the same thing, only both sides
are in the same subnet. The wireless router can't decide where to go
with 192.168.1.x traffic, so it's going to stay inside by default,
which is why you can't ping your firebox.

As Dan said, you should put the wireless router into bridged mode
(think: hub) which will make your network (at least the wireless
portion) look like this:

--net--[rtr]--[24.123.x.x--firebox--192.168.1.2]--[wap]--[192.168.1.x--PCs]

The wireless router is now doing nothing but taking traffic from the
wired side and passing it to the wireless, and vice-versa.

Long winded, and not very coherent, (not enough coffee) but I hope
this helps some.

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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Thu Jan 13 11:05:18 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1e646ea.039@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
References: <s1e646ea.039@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <1234.12.47.38.130.1105635918.squirrel@12.47.38.130>

You'll have to "admin" your way into the router, and you may have to do
this by way of telnet.  I know several of the router's web interfaces do
not completely let you configure some of the options.

Inside of the telnet screen there is probably some sort of "mode" option
which will refer to bridge mode as "bridge mode" or "pass through mode" or
something of that nature.

> That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I cannot
> figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model of the
> router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The linksys
> website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some conversations on
> google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be done.
>
>



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From foeclan at visi.com  Thu Jan 13 11:29:28 2005
From: foeclan at visi.com (Michael Vieths)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E6AFF8.7060508@visi.com>

Brian Wall wrote:
> Sorry for the OT post, but I need some advice.  I'm being pressured to
> finish up my 2 year degree program, and I'm trying to find the best
> way to go about it.  I have 2 years worth of credits from a tech
> college, but I'm short a few classes.  The problem is, these classes
> can't be taken over the internet or at night.  Is there a good local
> college where I could finish up my degree easily?
> 
Are you talking an Associate degree from a community college, or a 
technical college degree?

I've heard good things from a friend who went to Hennepin Technical 
College (http://www.hennepintech.edu).  There's also Minneapolis 
Community and Technical College (http://www.mctc.mnscu.edu), and a few 
others in the MNSCU system.

If you're looking at 4-year degrees, I've had good experiences with 
Metropolitan State University (http://www.metrostate.edu).  They have a 
lot of night classes, and thus far I've only had one poor instructor.

-- 
Michael Vieths
Foeclan@Visi.com

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From adam at whee.org  Thu Jan 13 11:37:40 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OSS alternative to MS Project?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501131136330.29694@titan>

Any recommendations?  I found Open Workbench, but the Java requirement 
makes me nervous.  What's everyone else using?

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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 11:53:03 2005
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
In-Reply-To: <41E6AFF8.7060508@visi.com>
References: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
	<41E6AFF8.7060508@visi.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da05011309531b12faf6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:29:28 -0600, Michael Vieths <foeclan@visi.com> wrote:

> Are you talking an Associate degree from a community college, or a
> technical college degree?

AAS from a tech college.

> I've heard good things from a friend who went to Hennepin Technical
> College (http://www.hennepintech.edu).

I almost went there originally.  Good school with some unique programs
like audio recording.

> There's also Minneapolis
> Community and Technical College (http://www.mctc.mnscu.edu), and a few
> others in the MNSCU system.

I'm browsing MNSCU and finding some decent colleges.  Hennepin tech is
definitely in the forefront.

> If you're looking at 4-year degrees, I've had good experiences with
> Metropolitan State University (http://www.metrostate.edu).  They have a
> lot of night classes, and thus far I've only had one poor instructor.

I like the looks of their IS program.  Unfortunately I wouldn't be
able to get my 4 year for about 10 years the way I'm going :-)

Thanks for the tips!

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From carlos at eberhardt.net  Thu Jan 13 12:56:55 2005
From: carlos at eberhardt.net (carlos@eberhardt.net)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OSS alternative to MS Project?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501131136330.29694@titan>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501131136330.29694@titan>
Message-ID: <20050113185655.GA10249@sunflower.domain.actdsltmp>

On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 11:37:40AM -0600, Adam Maloney wrote:
> Any recommendations?  I found Open Workbench, but the Java requirement 
> makes me nervous.  What's everyone else using?

Niku (where workbench comes from) has some pretty big customers who 
don't seem to mind the java. :) It's a fairly complex project 
planning/etc. application, though. It may be overkill.

I've never tried it, but Imendio Planner looks promising:
http://www.imendio.com/projects/planner/

-carlos

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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Thu Jan 13 13:05:30 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (Garrett Krueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT] finishing up degree
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da05011309531b12faf6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c6699da0501130644d973a@mail.gmail.com>
	<41E6AFF8.7060508@visi.com>
	<2c6699da05011309531b12faf6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57807.12.47.38.130.1105643130.squirrel@12.47.38.130>

A lot of the technical college do not have credits that transfer to other
places.  This has to do with their accreditation. NCA accreditation (if
that's what your school has) makes it the most likely to transfer /
exchange credits between schools.  What might be good is to find out the
accreditation under which you've earned your credits and then pursue from
there.


> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:29:28 -0600, Michael Vieths <foeclan@visi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Are you talking an Associate degree from a community college, or a
>> technical college degree?
>
> AAS from a tech college.
>



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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 13:19:34 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <1234.12.47.38.130.1105635918.squirrel@12.47.38.130>
References: <s1e646ea.039@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
	<1234.12.47.38.130.1105635918.squirrel@12.47.38.130>
Message-ID: <914f813c05011311196a88a222@mail.gmail.com>

I've not used one, but a firmware upgrade *might* help there. Others
will be more helpful in this area.


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:05:18 -0600 (CST), Garrett Krueger
<gkrueger@cleosci.com> wrote:
> You'll have to "admin" your way into the router, and you may have to do
> this by way of telnet.  I know several of the router's web interfaces do
> not completely let you configure some of the options.
> 
> Inside of the telnet screen there is probably some sort of "mode" option
> which will refer to bridge mode as "bridge mode" or "pass through mode" or
> something of that nature.
> 
> > That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I cannot
> > figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model of the
> > router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The linksys
> > website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some conversations on
> > google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be done.
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
John T. Hoffoss

_______________________________________________
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From rpgoldman at real-time.com  Thu Jan 13 15:00:58 2005
From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Old old computers
In-Reply-To: <41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <fc40260f05011113543fe48727@mail.gmail.com>
	<41e5a242.404e6d02.58f7.0090@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16870.57738.938333.74815@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

If you still need one, I have a 486 that I need to get working myself
(to pull some data off 5.25" floppies).

R

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From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Thu Jan 13 22:25:22 2005
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:45 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
Message-ID: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>

Greetings:

I have a Solaris 9 box that I have a huge honking *.zip file on. When I 
try to unzip the file, I get a
skipping: big_honking_file.txt need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.0)

I googled on the error and found that:

It seems that Info-Zip <http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/>, the 
standard open source archiving utility that comes with many UNIX 
distributions, does not support unzipping files who?s original size was 
over 4GB. Most open source archiving packages make use of Info-Zip code, 
so they do not support it either. When you try to unzip a file like 
this, you get an error:

|skipping: yeas3/yeas3.TRC need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.1)
|

|
Here is the link to the article:|

|Link to article - 
http://toadstool.se/journal/2005/01/11/unzipping-large-files-in-unix
|


I looked at the man page for unzip and found:

v5.32 3 Nov 97 Info ZIP

I assume zipped files greater than 4GB were scarcer than hen's teeth 
back then.

So my question is to all the Linux people on the list that support 
Solaris at work. Do you know a tool that I can use on a Solaris 9 box 
that will unzip a *.zip file that is greater than 4GB?

Thank you for the time,

Perry Hoekstra

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From adam at whee.org  Fri Jan 14 07:27:51 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
In-Reply-To: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>
References: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501140724390.13318@titan>

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Perry Hoekstra wrote:

> I have a Solaris 9 box that I have a huge honking *.zip file on. When I try 
> to unzip the file, I get a
> skipping: big_honking_file.txt need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.0)

Have you read this:
http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/FAQ.html#limits

If the notes at the bottom about recompiling with large file support don't 
apply to you (your archive file is <2GB), then you might be stuck having 
to unzip it on a Windows box and then transferring it uncompressed.

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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 07:41:56 2005
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
In-Reply-To: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>
References: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>
Message-ID: <914f813c0501140541797db047@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps a commercial PKZIP? GZipped Tarball? BZipped Tarball?


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:25:22 -0600, Perry Hoekstra
<dutchman_mn@charter.net> wrote:
> Greetings:
> 
> I have a Solaris 9 box that I have a huge honking *.zip file on. When I
> try to unzip the file, I get a
> skipping: big_honking_file.txt need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.0)
> 
> I googled on the error and found that:
> 
> It seems that Info-Zip <http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/>, the
> standard open source archiving utility that comes with many UNIX
> distributions, does not support unzipping files who's original size was
> over 4GB. Most open source archiving packages make use of Info-Zip code,
> so they do not support it either. When you try to unzip a file like
> this, you get an error:
> 
> |skipping: yeas3/yeas3.TRC need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.1)
> |
> 
> |
> Here is the link to the article:|
> 
> |Link to article -
> http://toadstool.se/journal/2005/01/11/unzipping-large-files-in-unix
> |
> 
> I looked at the man page for unzip and found:
> 
> v5.32 3 Nov 97 Info ZIP
> 
> I assume zipped files greater than 4GB were scarcer than hen's teeth
> back then.
> 
> So my question is to all the Linux people on the list that support
> Solaris at work. Do you know a tool that I can use on a Solaris 9 box
> that will unzip a *.zip file that is greater than 4GB?
> 
> Thank you for the time,
> 
> Perry Hoekstra
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
John T. Hoffoss

_______________________________________________
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From josh at joshwelch.com  Fri Jan 14 07:46:43 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
In-Reply-To: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>
References: <41E749B2.1010609@charter.net>
Message-ID: <41E7CD43.70306@joshwelch.com>

Perry Hoekstra wrote:
> Greetings:
> 
> I have a Solaris 9 box that I have a huge honking *.zip file on. When I 
> try to unzip the file, I get a
> skipping: big_honking_file.txt need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.0)
> 
> I googled on the error and found that:
> 
> It seems that Info-Zip <http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/>, the 
> standard open source archiving utility that comes with many UNIX 
> distributions, does not support unzipping files who?s original size was 
> over 4GB. Most open source archiving packages make use of Info-Zip code, 
> so they do not support it either. When you try to unzip a file like 
> this, you get an error:
> 
> |skipping: yeas3/yeas3.TRC need PK compat. v4.5 (can do v2.1)
> |
> 
> |
> Here is the link to the article:|
> 
> |Link to article - 
> http://toadstool.se/journal/2005/01/11/unzipping-large-files-in-unix
> |
> 
> 
> I looked at the man page for unzip and found:
> 
> v5.32 3 Nov 97 Info ZIP
> 
> I assume zipped files greater than 4GB were scarcer than hen's teeth 
> back then.
> 
> So my question is to all the Linux people on the list that support 
> Solaris at work. Do you know a tool that I can use on a Solaris 9 box 
> that will unzip a *.zip file that is greater than 4GB?
> 
> Thank you for the time,
> 
> Perry Hoekstra
> 

Have you tried gzip? You should be able to get a binary from the Sun 
freeware site.

http://www.sunfreeware.com

I know I've dealt with files over 4GB on linux with gzip.

Josh

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From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Fri Jan 14 08:26:24 2005
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn@charter.net)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
Message-ID: <3khe4g$f9oi15@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net>

> Have you tried gzip? 

The problem is that the *.zip file is something we receive from a client so it is not something I can change easily or quickly.

On a lark, I did go to the gzip site to see if gunzip could unzip a *.zip file but there was no joy.

I did try the Java jar suggestion but the jar command just spun and never did extract the file.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

Perry Hoekstra 


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From smac at visi.com  Fri Jan 14 10:35:36 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
In-Reply-To: <3khe4g$f9oi15@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net>
References: <3khe4g$f9oi15@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net>
Message-ID: <1105720536.41e7f4d8ec023@my.visi.com>

4 gig ZIP file must be a database... Hmmmmm...

Not knowing much about SUN hardware myself I'm taking a shot in the dark.

If the SUN box has a 32bit processor, does it have the same limitation as the
intel 32bit processors when addressing memory... 4GB?

Maybe a machine with a 64bit processor would be able to unzip the file. 64bit
can address 16tb of memeory, with a 64bit operating system.

It's a guess on my part, hope it's a good guess.

Sam.



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From tpenney at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 10:31:50 2005
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ext3 directory file limit
Message-ID: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>

What Is the limit to the number of files that can be stored in one
directory on an ext3 file system?

-- 
Tom Penney

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From jeremy.rosengren at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 11:10:11 2005
From: jeremy.rosengren at gmail.com (Jeremy Rosengren)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ext3 directory file limit
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf09257005011409104fef6927@mail.gmail.com>

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=122241

-- jeremy


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:31:50 -0600, Tom Penney <tpenney@gmail.com> wrote:
> What Is the limit to the number of files that can be stored in one
> directory on an ext3 file system?
> 
> --
> Tom Penney
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Fri Jan 14 11:09:18 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Origin of "Ogg"
Message-ID: <20050114170918.GA30611@mail.el-swifto.com>

I'll be darned--from vorbis.com / xiph.org:

  An 'Ogg' is a tactical maneuver from the network game 'Netrek' that
  has entered common usage in a wider sense. From the definition: 

    To do anything forcefully, possibly without consideration of the
	drain on future resources. ...

Still not supported by my iPod though.  :^)

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

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From adam at whee.org  Fri Jan 14 10:47:30 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
In-Reply-To: <1105720536.41e7f4d8ec023@my.visi.com>
References: <3khe4g$f9oi15@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net>
	<1105720536.41e7f4d8ec023@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141037470.15374@titan>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 smac@visi.com wrote:

> Maybe a machine with a 64bit processor would be able to unzip the file. 64bit
> can address 16tb of memeory, with a 64bit operating system.

According to what I've read, the problem is related to how PKWare decided 
to implement large file support inside the archive.  That is, this is not 
a memory addressing issue, filesystem issue, or an issue with Lempel-Ziv 
(well, obviously if the underlying filesystem can't handle these large 
files, it doesn't matter anyways...but I'm assuming if he's working with a 
4GB file, that his underlying OS is capable of handling it.  Just like I'm 
assuming he's got more than 4GB of disk space)

They did some hackery like changing the ZIP header for these larger files, 
to identify them to be parsed in a different way when being uncompressed. 
The hackery was not well documented, so the Info-Zip developer is unable 
to duplicate it without a significant time investment.

If anyone is interested, I wrote a perl implementation of LZ a number of 
years ago.  It could compress and uncompress just fine, although it turned 
out to be lossy (my program, not LZ).

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From drue at therub.org  Fri Jan 14 11:07:06 2005
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <914f813c05011311196a88a222@mail.gmail.com>
References: <s1e646ea.039@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
	<1234.12.47.38.130.1105635918.squirrel@12.47.38.130>
	<914f813c05011311196a88a222@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050114170706.GO78303@therub.org>

I don't think it calls it bridge mode.  I'll look at mine when I get
home.  The thing you can't do with a wrt54g is set it up to bridge
another WAP.  But the behavior you need is certainly possible.

Again, i'll look tonight and let you know,

dan

On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 01:19:34PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> I've not used one, but a firmware upgrade *might* help there. Others
> will be more helpful in this area.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:05:18 -0600 (CST), Garrett Krueger
> <gkrueger@cleosci.com> wrote:
> > You'll have to "admin" your way into the router, and you may have to do
> > this by way of telnet.  I know several of the router's web interfaces do
> > not completely let you configure some of the options.
> > 
> > Inside of the telnet screen there is probably some sort of "mode" option
> > which will refer to bridge mode as "bridge mode" or "pass through mode" or
> > something of that nature.
> > 
> > > That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I cannot
> > > figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model of the
> > > router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The linksys
> > > website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some conversations on
> > > google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be done.
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John T. Hoffoss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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From smac at visi.com  Fri Jan 14 11:30:34 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ext3 directory file limit
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1105723834.41e801ba851f9@my.visi.com>

I Googled "ext3 file system limitations"

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=122241

I've read that ext3 was the basis for ext3 so this should be close

<quote>
The ext2 inode specification allows for over 100 trillion files to reside in a
single directory, however because of the current linked-list directory
implementation, only about 10-15 thousand files can realistically be
stored in a single directory.
</quote>


Sam.

Quoting Tom Penney <tpenney@gmail.com>:

> What Is the limit to the number of files that can be stored in one
> directory on an ext3 file system?
>
> --
> Tom Penney



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From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 13:12:49 2005
From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OSS alternative to MS Project?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501131136330.29694@titan>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501131136330.29694@titan>
Message-ID: <9d6c825305011311122edcfa9f@mail.gmail.com>

I thought that there was a Gnome Project that gets installed as part
of the gnome-desktop-environment or the fifth toe package in Debian. 
It was pretty nice with the ability to work with postgres.

I tried looking for it but I can't find any documentation to back up my memory.

Ahh...here it is http://mrproject.codefactory.se/  Apparently it is
part of the Gnome Office.

-- 
Jeff Rasmussen
GPG public key 0x9686C12F

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From smac at visi.com  Fri Jan 14 11:45:10 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ext3 File System
Message-ID: <1105724710.41e805261ce73@my.visi.com>

This link added some other information like number of subdirectorys in a single
directory.
http://www.linux-mag.com/2002-10/jfs_04.html

<quote>
The downside of Ext3? It's an add-on to Ext2, so it still has the same
limitations that Ext2 has. The fixed internal structures of Ext2 are simply too
small (too few bits) to capture large file sizes, extremely large partition
sizes, and enormous numbers of files in a single directory. Moreover, the
bookkeeping techniques of Ext2, such as its linked-list directory
implementation, do not scale well to large file systems (there is an upper
limit of 32,768 subdirectories in a single directory, and a "soft" upper limit
of 10,000-15,000 files in a single directory.) To make radical improvements to
Ext2, you'd have to make radical changes. Radical change was not the intent of
Ext3.
</quote>

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From tex at nerp.net  Sun Jan  9 16:05:03 2005
From: tex at nerp.net (tex@nerp.net)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] JANUARY BEER MEETING 
Message-ID: <1149.66.41.8.194.1105308303.squirrel@webmail.nerp.net>

Hello Everyone,

It's time for another Beer Meeting.  The Tavern on Grand in St. Paul has
been recommended for this month, and as we haven't been as a group to this
venue before, I thought it would be a nice addition to our repertoire.

Please see website for details:
http://beer.tclug.org

Have a great week - hope to see you Thursday!

Your hostess,
Deborah Dotson





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From tanner at mn-linux.org  Fri Jan 14 11:13:25 2005
From: tanner at mn-linux.org (Bob Tanner)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Upgrading the tclug mailing list server
Message-ID: <200501141113.32058@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
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-------------- next part --------------
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From djb at tc.umn.edu  Thu Jan 13 23:38:18 2005
From: djb at tc.umn.edu (Dave Bianchi)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] REMINDER: TCSA meeting January 20
Message-ID: <iss.5bb0.41e75aca.8855e.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>

The Twin Cities System Administrators (TCSA) group meets monthly to
discuss topics of interest to system and network administrators in
the Twin Cities area of Minnesota.  The meetings are free and open to
the public.  Check out our web site at http://www.tcsa.org/

TCSA meetings are on the third Thursday of each month at 7:00 pm.

-----



Next Meeting:

  Topic:	LISA 2004 Conference Highlights
  Speaker:	LISA 2004 Attendees
  Date/Time:	January 20, 2005  7:00 pm
  Location:	France Place

Synopsis:

  TCSA members and others that attended the LISA 2004 conference in
  November in Atlanta are invited to share their conference experiences
  with those of us who weren't able to attend.

  Please contact me at djb@umn.edu if you were at LISA 2004.




  We will meet at the France Place Building, 3601 Minnesota Drive,
  in a conference room one floor down from street level on level
  "P" (underground Parking).  Our conference room will be the first
  one that you see.



Tentative Meeting Schedule

  February 17, 2005
  March 17, 2005



Directions:

  The France Place Building is at 3601 Minnesota Drive on the
  northeast corner of Hwy 494 and France Avenue in the Bloomington
  business district.

  From 494, go north on France Ave. to Minnesota Drive (the first
  streetlight north of 494).  Take a right (east) onto Minnesota
  Drive and immediately take another right into the parking lot.
  The building sign is visible from 494 and shares a parking lot
  with Fuddruckers.  France Place is a nine story brown brick
  building.

- Parking

  Free parking is available in the main lot.

- Web map is at:

  http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=3601+minnesota+drive&city=bloomington&state=mn&zipcode=55435




For more information on TCSA, check out our web site:

  http://www.tcsa.org/

To subscribe to the TCSA or TCSA-JOBS mailing lists, follow the TCSA
or TCSA-JOBS link from:

  http://list.onvoy.com/

For any other information, please send email to:

  djb@umn.edu

or contact:

  Dave Bianchi	651-260-1770

-- 
Dave Bianchi     djb@umn.edu     651-260-1770

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 14 12:33:00 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

I was just trying to ping my old Win98 box from my office and it did not 
work.  I think it has been like this since I moved to a new home and 
started using Time/Warner as an ISP.  Anyway, I don't see anything about 
it on the web, so do you guys know if Time Warner blocks that kind of 
traffic?

It also seems that I cannot use VNC to connect to home from my office. 
Do you know if Time/Warner blocks VNC traffic (TCP port 5900)?

Thanks in advance.

Mike

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From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Fri Jan 14 12:31:46 2005
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Solaris Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141037470.15374@titan>
References: <3khe4g$f9oi15@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net>	<1105720536.41e7f4d8ec023@my.visi.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141037470.15374@titan>
Message-ID: <41E81012.7050805@charter.net>

Adam Maloney wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 smac@visi.com wrote:
>
>> Maybe a machine with a 64bit processor would be able to unzip the 
>> file. 64bit
>> can address 16tb of memeory, with a 64bit operating system.
>
>
> According to what I've read, the problem is related to how PKWare 
> decided to implement large file support inside the archive.  That is, 
> this is not a memory addressing issue, filesystem issue, or an issue 
> with Lempel-Ziv (well, obviously if the underlying filesystem can't 
> handle these large files, it doesn't matter anyways...but I'm assuming 
> if he's working with a 4GB file, that his underlying OS is capable of 
> handling it.  Just like I'm assuming he's got more than 4GB of disk 
> space)
>
> They did some hackery like changing the ZIP header for these larger 
> files, to identify them to be parsed in a different way when being 
> uncompressed. The hackery was not well documented, so the Info-Zip 
> developer is unable to duplicate it without a significant time 
> investment.
>
> If anyone is interested, I wrote a perl implementation of LZ a number 
> of years ago.  It could compress and uncompress just fine, although it 
> turned out to be lossy (my program, not LZ).
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
I don't believe that the zip/unzip facilities that come stock with 
Solaris 9 are compiled to handle large files.  I would have had to 
compile a version of zip/unzip to include large file support.  In the 
end, I had to move the files to a Windows box, unzip them with Winzip 
and then move them to my DB server for loading by SQL Bulk Loader 
(sigh).  It worked but it was time consuming (no fiber to my desktop) 
and chewed up a lot of network bandwith.

I thank you for your wonderful support, especially since it was 
non-Linux.  I got a lot of good suggestions.  Now that I know this, I 
need to get with the client to see if we can work something out next time.

Perry Hoekstra

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From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Fri Jan 14 12:51:32 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20050114125132.00006267@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:33:00 -0600 (CST)
Mike Miller <mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:

> I was just trying to ping my old Win98 box from my office and it did
> not  work.  I think it has been like this since I moved to a new
> home and  started using Time/Warner as an ISP.  Anyway, I don't see
> anything about  it on the web, so do you guys know if Time Warner
> blocks that kind of  traffic?
> 
> It also seems that I cannot use VNC to connect to home from my
> office.  Do you know if Time/Warner blocks VNC traffic (TCP port
> 5900)?

I'm in North Minneapolis on TW RoadRunner (residential) and I've never
known them to block any port.  The only thing they've done
occasionally is check to see if there is an open relay on port 25.  I
have used both ping and VNC on road runner.

Any other hardware like a router involved in your network that could
be blocking VNC or Pings?  

Josh

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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Fri Jan 14 13:06:26 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
Message-ID: <200501141906263885daa8b5@mail.smumn.edu>

To my previous message; I never heard of or experienced any port being innaccesible. I have been on RR for a few years.


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From jim.carter at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 13:15:09 2005
From: jim.carter at gmail.com (Jim Carter)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>

Speaking of VNC, I ran across this remote control site that is similar
to GoToMyPC, with a few less features but it's free.  There's a
restriction that you can't transfer files with the client.

http://www.LogMeIn.com

``LogMeIn.com provides secure remote access solutions. All products
include a desktop remote control that allows you to use your PC from
any web-enabled remote device, including PDAs and laptops.``

Like GoToMyPC, because it runs as a service (on XP) and connects to
their servers through port 80, it slices and dices firewalls.

Jim


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:33:00 -0600 (CST), Mike Miller
<mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> I was just trying to ping my old Win98 box from my office and it did not
> work.  I think it has been like this since I moved to a new home and
> started using Time/Warner as an ISP.  Anyway, I don't see anything about
> it on the web, so do you guys know if Time Warner blocks that kind of
> traffic?
> 
> It also seems that I cannot use VNC to connect to home from my office.
> Do you know if Time/Warner blocks VNC traffic (TCP port 5900)?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

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From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com  Fri Jan 14 13:12:54 2005
From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OSS alternative to MS Project?
Message-ID: <1105729974.2270521049.1797.sendItem@bloglines.com>

--- Jeff Rasmussen <jeff.rasmussen@gmail.com wrote:

I thought that there
was a Gnome Project that gets installed as part

> of the gnome-desktop-environment
or the fifth toe package in Debian. 

> It was pretty nice with the ability
to work with postgres.

> 

> I tried looking for it but I can't find any
documentation to back up my memory.

> 

> Ahh...here it is http://mrproject.codefactory.se/
 Apparently it is

> part of the Gnome Office.

> 

> -- 

> Jeff Rasmussen

> GPG public key 0x9686C12F

> 



If I remember correctly, MrProject became
Imendio's Planner which was linked to in this thread previously.  I'd go for
Planner over MrProject since it doesn't look like the MrProject site has been
updated in almost 2 years.

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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Fri Jan 14 12:58:55 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
Message-ID: <200501141858558185daa809@mail.smumn.edu>

Don't know dude, why don't you ask them your self....?

For sales or support, our offices are open 24/7:

Metropolitan Area 
(612) 522-1000

New Ulm

Madelia

Montrose/Waverly

(507) 354-4191

(507) 642-3114

(763) 675-3373


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From tpenney at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 12:59:15 2005
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] re: ext3 directory file limit
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e050114083138715454@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c596d0e05011410595693bb5d@mail.gmail.com>

I just found this in another forum. I sure would be helpful to know an
exact number if anyone knows. (ext3 is basically the same ext2)

"There is a limit of 32k
(32768) subdirectories in a single directory, a limitation likely of
only academic interest, as many people don't even have that many files
(though huge mail servers may need to keep that in mind).  The ext2
inode specification allows for over 100 trillion files to reside in a
single directory, however because of the current linked-list directory
implementation, only about 10-15 thousand files can realistically be
stored in a single directory.  This is why systems such as Squid (
http://www.squid-cache.org ) use cache directories with many
subdirectories - searching through tens of thousands of files in one
directory is sloooooooow.  There is however a hashed directory index
scheme under development which should allow up to about 1 million
files to be reasonably stored in a single directory."

:

-- 
Tom Penney

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From smac at visi.com  Fri Jan 14 13:26:56 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>

I'm so glad I have DSL with VISI.com.

Sam.



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From josh at joshwelch.com  Fri Jan 14 13:58:29 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:47 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <41E82465.7080502@joshwelch.com>

Mike Miller wrote:
> I was just trying to ping my old Win98 box from my office and it did not 
> work.  I think it has been like this since I moved to a new home and 
> started using Time/Warner as an ISP.  Anyway, I don't see anything about 
> it on the web, so do you guys know if Time Warner blocks that kind of 
> traffic?
> 
> It also seems that I cannot use VNC to connect to home from my office. 
> Do you know if Time/Warner blocks VNC traffic (TCP port 5900)?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Mike

A quick test shows that TW does appear to be blocking ICMP, ping and 
traceroute both fail for me. I don't have a VNC installation to test 
against, however I can tell you that SSH and HTTP work just fine. When I 
need to get to my Windows box I use VNC over SSH to my Linux box and 
then VNC to my Windows box. It's a bit of a hassle, but less so than 
exposing a Windows box to the Internet :)

Josh

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From jim.carter at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 14:42:42 2005
From: jim.carter at gmail.com (Jim Carter)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <41E82465.7080502@joshwelch.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<41E82465.7080502@joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <745b585e0501141242e027cdf@mail.gmail.com>

If you're using PuTTY, you can setup the the tunnel so you don't have
to double VNC.  Here's some info about it:

http://www.shebeen.com/vnc_ssh/
http://www.uk.research.att.com/archive/vnc/sshvnc.html
http://talk.trekweb.com/~jasonb/articles/vnc_ssh.shtml




On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:58:29 -0600, Josh Welch <josh@joshwelch.com> wrote:
> Mike Miller wrote:
> A quick test shows that TW does appear to be blocking ICMP, ping and
> traceroute both fail for me. I don't have a VNC installation to test
> against, however I can tell you that SSH and HTTP work just fine. When I
> need to get to my Windows box I use VNC over SSH to my Linux box and
> then VNC to my Windows box. It's a bit of a hassle, but less so than
> exposing a Windows box to the Internet :)
> 
> Josh

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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 15:03:02 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141502180.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Mike Miller wrote:
> I was just trying to ping my old Win98 box from my office and it did not
> work.  I think it has been like this since I moved to a new home and
> started using Time/Warner as an ISP.  Anyway, I don't see anything about
> it on the web, so do you guys know if Time Warner blocks that kind of
> traffic?
> 
> It also seems that I cannot use VNC to connect to home from my office.  
> Do you know if Time/Warner blocks VNC traffic (TCP port 5900)?

Both ICMP and 5900/tcp are working on my connection at home. (At least,
ICMP works, and when I hit 5900/tcp, I get a deny in my firewall logs..  
*grin*)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


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From ben_b at ppdonline.com  Fri Jan 14 15:20:32 2005
From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
Message-ID: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>

Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
[still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
following items...

Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
Caller ID - $6.95
Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
Voice Messaging - $6.95
Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
[Misc local fees] - $13.52
[Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
[long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82

If I dump Qwest other than for my DSL connection do I just pay the
$28.00 Qwest DSL Dlx fee or do I still pay for the basic line fee too? 
Does Vonage have similar taxes and access charges to Qwest or are they
truly $25/month out the door?  Qwest.net doesn't do a thing for me as a
service provider so continuing to pay $21.95/month for them seems silly,
can someone recommend a good but cheap alternative for DSL access as an
ISP?  I really don't need anything but the other end of my connection. 
I don't care about static IPs, I don't need phone support, I don't need
web server space, I don't even need a POP account.  The only things I'd
like are that they keep up with the 640kb I get from Qwest and that they
don't cap total transfer bandwidth over any period of time (not that I
really transfer that much but I don't want to have to worry about it).

Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
that you can pass on to a potential customer?

Again, sorry for being off topic.
Ben.

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 14 15:43:21 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141536410.18078@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Ben Bargabus wrote:

> Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at 
> some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a 
> little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to 
> Vonage to cut that back a bit.


Are you making international calls?  I dumped my landline two years ago 
and I haven't looked back.  I have a nice Sprint phone and I pay $50/mo 
for service including free calling after 7:00 pm on weekdays and all 
weekend (7:00 pm Friday to 7:00 am Monday).  In addition, I get 500 
minutes per month on weekdays.  People think my phone sounds fine.  I 
don't have voicemail at home to check and people know how to find me.  I 
have never gone over on minutes.  They probably have an even better deal 
by now.

My only reason for a landline would be for use with my DirecTiVo, but that 
actually works without phone after installation (I guess I miss software 
updates and pay-per-view).  For installation, I ran a 50' phone cord to my 
neighbor's house!  That did it.

Mike

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From drue at therub.org  Fri Jan 14 15:44:39 2005
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <20050114214439.GP78303@therub.org>

I have naked dsl through qwest, and I can tell you that I pay about $36
to qwest if i remember correctly after all fees and taxes for the
standard line.  $19.99/mo to visi, and I get 1.5Mbps down, 895Kbps up..

Dan

On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 03:20:32PM -0600, Ben Bargabus wrote:
> Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
> some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
> little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
> Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
> that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
> [still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
> following items...
> 
> Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
> Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
> Caller ID - $6.95
> Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
> Voice Messaging - $6.95
> Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
> [Misc local fees] - $13.52
> [Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
> [long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82
> 
> If I dump Qwest other than for my DSL connection do I just pay the
> $28.00 Qwest DSL Dlx fee or do I still pay for the basic line fee too? 
> Does Vonage have similar taxes and access charges to Qwest or are they
> truly $25/month out the door?  Qwest.net doesn't do a thing for me as a
> service provider so continuing to pay $21.95/month for them seems silly,
> can someone recommend a good but cheap alternative for DSL access as an
> ISP?  I really don't need anything but the other end of my connection. 
> I don't care about static IPs, I don't need phone support, I don't need
> web server space, I don't even need a POP account.  The only things I'd
> like are that they keep up with the 640kb I get from Qwest and that they
> don't cap total transfer bandwidth over any period of time (not that I
> really transfer that much but I don't want to have to worry about it).
> 
> Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
> work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
> network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
> that you can pass on to a potential customer?
> 
> Again, sorry for being off topic.
> Ben.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From jim.carter at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 15:47:09 2005
From: jim.carter at gmail.com (Jim Carter)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <745b585e05011413476ddcea3c@mail.gmail.com>

I love my Vonage.  

Here's my most expensive phone bill yet:

International Calls for 1-(763)-XXX-XXXX (28/Nov-27/Dec) $17.20 
Virtual Phone Number for 1-(601)-XXX-XXXX (28/Dec-27/Jan) $4.99 
Premium Unlimited Plan for 1-(763)-XXX-XXXX (28/Dec-27/Jan) $24.99 
FET Tax $1.42 
Regulatory Recovery Fee $3.00 
Total Amount $51.60 

I'm paying 4.99/mo to keep my old Mississippi phone number.  Paying
less than $5 in robbery^H^H^H^H^H^H taxes..

They sent me all the hardware I needed, and I had no problems getting
it up and running behind a LinkSys BEFSR41 router (I'll send you the
port maps if you like, they're simple).

I tell anyone I can get to listen to switch to Vonage, especially if
you call long distance in the USA.

I'll send you a coupon for a free month to give it a shot.

Jim



On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:20:32 -0600, Ben Bargabus <ben_b@ppdonline.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
> some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
> little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
> Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
> that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
> [still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
> following items...
> 
> Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
> Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
> Caller ID - $6.95
> Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
> Voice Messaging - $6.95
> Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
> [Misc local fees] - $13.52
> [Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
> [long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82
> 
> If I dump Qwest other than for my DSL connection do I just pay the
> $28.00 Qwest DSL Dlx fee or do I still pay for the basic line fee too?
> Does Vonage have similar taxes and access charges to Qwest or are they
> truly $25/month out the door?  Qwest.net doesn't do a thing for me as a
> service provider so continuing to pay $21.95/month for them seems silly,
> can someone recommend a good but cheap alternative for DSL access as an
> ISP?  I really don't need anything but the other end of my connection.
> I don't care about static IPs, I don't need phone support, I don't need
> web server space, I don't even need a POP account.  The only things I'd
> like are that they keep up with the 640kb I get from Qwest and that they
> don't cap total transfer bandwidth over any period of time (not that I
> really transfer that much but I don't want to have to worry about it).
> 
> Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
> work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
> network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
> that you can pass on to a potential customer?
> 
> Again, sorry for being off topic.
> Ben.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
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> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

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From gkrueger at cleosci.com  Fri Jan 14 15:44:45 2005
From: gkrueger at cleosci.com (gkrueger)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <41E83D4D.7050802@cleosci.com>

First, I'm not sure about Qwest DSL when not a Qwest subscriber.

Second, I do have DSL through Covad on my Qwest phone line.  I know 
Covad works with 6 or 7 phone providers (meaning, as long as your phone 
service is from one of the 6 or 7, they can provide DSL to you).  Maybe 
this will help you...

Ben Bargabus wrote:

>Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
>some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
>little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
>Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
>that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
>[still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
>following items...
>
>Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
>Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
>Caller ID - $6.95
>Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
>Voice Messaging - $6.95
>Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
>[Misc local fees] - $13.52
>[Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
>[long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82
>
>If I dump Qwest other than for my DSL connection do I just pay the
>$28.00 Qwest DSL Dlx fee or do I still pay for the basic line fee too? 
>Does Vonage have similar taxes and access charges to Qwest or are they
>truly $25/month out the door?  Qwest.net doesn't do a thing for me as a
>service provider so continuing to pay $21.95/month for them seems silly,
>can someone recommend a good but cheap alternative for DSL access as an
>ISP?  I really don't need anything but the other end of my connection. 
>I don't care about static IPs, I don't need phone support, I don't need
>web server space, I don't even need a POP account.  The only things I'd
>like are that they keep up with the 640kb I get from Qwest and that they
>don't cap total transfer bandwidth over any period of time (not that I
>really transfer that much but I don't want to have to worry about it).
>
>Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
>work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
>network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
>that you can pass on to a potential customer?
>
>Again, sorry for being off topic.
>Ben.
>  
>


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From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 14:56:51 2005
From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OSS alternative to MS Project?
In-Reply-To: <1105729974.2270521049.1797.sendItem@bloglines.com>
References: <1105729974.2270521049.1797.sendItem@bloglines.com>
Message-ID: <9d6c8253050114125655a531d2@mail.gmail.com>

That sounds like Debian :)

Jeff

On 14 Jan 2005 19:12:54 -0000, jonner.2530195@bloglines.com
<jonner.2530195@bloglines.com> wrote:
> --- Jeff Rasmussen <jeff.rasmussen@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I thought that there
> was a Gnome Project that gets installed as part
> 
> > of the gnome-desktop-environment
> or the fifth toe package in Debian.
> 
> > It was pretty nice with the ability
> to work with postgres.
> 
> >
> 
> > I tried looking for it but I can't find any
> documentation to back up my memory.
> 
> >
> 
> > Ahh...here it is http://mrproject.codefactory.se/
>  Apparently it is
> 
> > part of the Gnome Office.
> 
> >
> 
> > --
> 
> > Jeff Rasmussen
> 
> > GPG public key 0x9686C12F
> 
> >
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, MrProject became
> Imendio's Planner which was linked to in this thread previously.  I'd go for
> Planner over MrProject since it doesn't look like the MrProject site has been
> updated in almost 2 years.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
Jeff Rasmussen
GPG public key 0x9686C12F

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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 16:23:45 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Ben Bargabus wrote:
> Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
> work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
> network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
> that you can pass on to a potential customer?

If I had to do things over again, I'd get a landline first, and port the
number to Vonage, instead of having Vonage assign me a number. Since
they've assigned me one, I can't port it out to anyone else (basically,
vonage leases their DID's from another company, so Vonage is the customer
on record for the phone number - to port to another provider, you have to
be the customer on record for the number. Even if Vonage wanted to port,
it wouldn't be easy.) If I had brought the number in with me, I'd be able
to take it out to another provider.

Other than that, I haven't had any problems with Vonage as a landline
replacement. I've just outgrown them; I run my own Asterisk box, and would
rather have full control over the number instead of routing it through an
ATA first. What I ended up doing is getting a DID from another provider,
and have Vonage simultaneously ring that DID (which rings into my Asterisk
box) and the ATA, instead of just ringing the ATA. Oh, yeah, for those of
you wondering if a modem will work on Vonage, the one time I tried it I
got a 28.8 connection (to AOL from a friend's laptop); I was rather
impressed. Of course, YMMV.  :)

As long as you've got a decent firewall (IE, Linux box), you shouldn't
have any problems getting Vonage to work behind it. You can also use their
router if you desire the built-in QoS; I just use Wondershaper on my Linux
firewall to handle the QoS stuff.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


_______________________________________________
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From tmarble at info9.net  Fri Jan 14 16:40:37 2005
From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>

Nate Carlson wrote:
> Other than that, I haven't had any problems with Vonage as a landline
> replacement. I've just outgrown them; I run my own Asterisk box, and would
> rather have full control over the number instead of routing it through an
> ATA first. What I ended up doing is getting a DID from another provider,
> and have Vonage simultaneously ring that DID (which rings into my Asterisk
> box) and the ATA, instead of just ringing the ATA.

Very cool... a couple questions:

1) have you every used a SIP softphone (including the proprietary Linux one)
   with Vonage?  If so, how did it work?  how does it compare with
   Asterisk softphones?

2) did you consider GNU Bayonne instead of Asterisk (open vs. closed protocol,
   SIP gateway, etc.)?

3) I'm not sure I grok the architecture here... does Vonage make an IP call
   to your Asterisk server (or is this all on the PSTN side?)?
   You don't have a landline at all, right?  So when you make an outbound
   call via Asterisk it gets routed to the PSTN via Vonage?

4) Is there a point at which you wouldn't need Vonage anymore (or will
   they always serve as the PSTN gateway, forwarding/voice mail agent, etc.)?

I actually think this is very on-topic!

Regards,

--Tom

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From florin at iucha.net  Fri Jan 14 17:04:19 2005
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20050114230419.GA26545@iucha.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 17:18:40 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:48 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141718210.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

Oh, and if anyone wants a Vonage referral, let me know offlist - I'll 
never complain about 2 free months of service.  :)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 17:19:49 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141708480.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141708480.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141718500.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Nate Carlson wrote:
> > 3) I'm not sure I grok the architecture here... does Vonage make an IP call
> >    to your Asterisk server (or is this all on the PSTN side?)?
> >    You don't have a landline at all, right?  So when you make an outbound
> >    call via Asterisk it gets routed to the PSTN via Vonage?
> 
> I've got my Vonage account configured so that when a call comes in from
> me, it gets routed both to my ATA, and to a DID that is assigned by
> Clearpath1 (VoIP provider), and delivered to me via IAX. So, as far as
> Vonage is concerned, it's a PSTN line. I have a few Asterisk-connected
> phones, and a cordless phone on the Vonage ATA. When someone calls the
> Vonage number, both sets of phones ring, and whoever picks up first gets
> the call. And you are correct, I do not have a landline anymore.

Forgot to answer the last portion of this question. When I make an
outgoing call on the cordless phone connected to the Vonage ATA, it goes
out via Vonage. When I make a call via the Asterisk-connected phones, it
goes out via Clearpath (IAX2 provider.)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 17:17:17 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141708480.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Tom Marble wrote:
> Very cool... a couple questions:
> 
> 1) have you every used a SIP softphone (including the proprietary Linux one)
>    with Vonage?  If so, how did it work?  how does it compare with
>    Asterisk softphones?

I've used their Windows softphone software, and it works ok. I always 
prefer hardphones, though.  :)  Note that you can't use a softphone with 
Vonage unless you pay $10/mo extra for a Softphone line -- they don't give 
you your authentication credentials for your primary line.

Any plain 'ol SIP softphone should work OK with Asterisk - I've used 
kphone and a few others that I can't remember offhand.

> 2) did you consider GNU Bayonne instead of Asterisk (open vs. closed protocol,
>    SIP gateway, etc.)?

I took a quick look at Bayonne; Asterisk seemed to be much more active, so
I went with it. I only actively use IAX and SIP, but Asterisk does also
support MGCP, H323, and various others.

> 3) I'm not sure I grok the architecture here... does Vonage make an IP call
>    to your Asterisk server (or is this all on the PSTN side?)?
>    You don't have a landline at all, right?  So when you make an outbound
>    call via Asterisk it gets routed to the PSTN via Vonage?

I've got my Vonage account configured so that when a call comes in from
me, it gets routed both to my ATA, and to a DID that is assigned by
Clearpath1 (VoIP provider), and delivered to me via IAX. So, as far as
Vonage is concerned, it's a PSTN line. I have a few Asterisk-connected
phones, and a cordless phone on the Vonage ATA. When someone calls the
Vonage number, both sets of phones ring, and whoever picks up first gets
the call. And you are correct, I do not have a landline anymore.

> 4) Is there a point at which you wouldn't need Vonage anymore (or will
>    they always serve as the PSTN gateway, forwarding/voice mail agent, etc.)?

Well, if they would let me port the number away, I wouldn't need them
right now. But, alas, they won't, so until I can convince my wife to
switch our phone number, I keep Vonage.  :)

> I actually think this is very on-topic!

Well, this part is, more than many other conversations on the list lately,
at least.  :)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


_______________________________________________
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Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 17:18:06 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050114230419.GA26545@iucha.net>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<20050114230419.GA26545@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141717300.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Florin Iucha wrote:
> From their web site:
> 
>    If you are a DSL Subscriber
> 
>    DSL subscribers are a special situation because they must keep
>    their existing phone numbers to maintain a high-speed connection to
>    Vonage. In this instance, we will assign you a new Vonage number
>    and you can begin enjoying the benefits of Vonage without delay.
> 
> What does this mean? They have to assign a new vonage number so I don't
> lose service during the switch? Will I still have my phone number after
> the switch?

No; what they are saying is that if you have a DSL line, you cannot cancel 
your phone line, so you need to keep your existing phone number and add 
Vonage.

If you have standalone DSL, there is no dialtone on the line, so you can
ignore that.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 14 17:22:07 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <20050114125132.00006267@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20050114125132.00006267@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141721140.18078@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote:

> Any other hardware like a router involved in your network that could be 
> blocking VNC or Pings?

It doesn't look like it.  I am using the same Linksys router here that I 
used before I moved.  It wasn't blocking anything before, so it really 
can't be doing it now.

Mike

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 14 17:29:30 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141502180.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141502180.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141728110.18078@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Nate Carlson wrote:

> Both ICMP and 5900/tcp are working on my connection at home. (At least, 
> ICMP works, and when I hit 5900/tcp, I get a deny in my firewall logs..

So it looks like about half of us are not able to use ICMP and half of us 
are able to use ICMP.

I'll find out and will report back.  I'm on hold right now with 
Time/Warner.

Mike

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From ben_b at ppdonline.com  Fri Jan 14 17:29:38 2005
From: ben_b at ppdonline.com (Ben Bargabus)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<41E84A65.6090507@info9.net>
Message-ID: <41E855E2.8B1E17DE@ppdonline.com>

Tom Marble wrote:
> 
> Nate Carlson wrote:
> > Other than that, I haven't had any problems with Vonage as a landline
> > replacement. I've just outgrown them; I run my own Asterisk box, and would
<snip>
> 4) Is there a point at which you wouldn't need Vonage anymore (or will
>    they always serve as the PSTN gateway, forwarding/voice mail agent, etc.)?


I'm assuming that there always has to be a provider involved at some
point in this process to interface with POTS users and to provide the
routing to a phone number for incoming calls, is that true?  It would be
neat if I could ditch phone providers all together and set up my own own
all IP based system but I'm guessing that's out of the question at this
point.


> I actually think this is very on-topic!


Getting more so now with this new angle added to the equation.


Thanks for all the input everyone!
Ben.

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 14 17:36:19 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] VNC enterprise (was "ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?")
In-Reply-To: <745b585e0501141242e027cdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<41E82465.7080502@joshwelch.com>
	<745b585e0501141242e027cdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141729540.18078@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Jim Carter wrote:

> If you're using PuTTY, you can setup the the tunnel so you don't have to 
> double VNC.  Here's some info about it:
>
> http://www.shebeen.com/vnc_ssh/
> http://www.uk.research.att.com/archive/vnc/sshvnc.html
> http://talk.trekweb.com/~jasonb/articles/vnc_ssh.shtml

That is good stuff.  I've done that before.  Now I'm interested in moving 
to VNC Enterprise because of the convenience of built-in encryption.

I am most interested in getting VNC Enterprise server running on Linux. 
Then I can allow many users to have VNC sessions running and I won't have 
to worry about security.  I don't want to have to trust them to use SSH, 
and I don't want to force them to take the extra steps to set it up.  (I 
think I could force them to use SSH by compiling VNC with libwrap.a and 
using tcp wrappers /etc/hosts.{deny,allow} to block connections other than 
from localhost.)

Mike

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 14 17:54:59 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <200501141858558185daa809@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <200501141858558185daa809@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141752330.18078@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 SDALAN04@smumn.edu wrote:

> Don't know dude, why don't you ask them your self....?
> For sales or support, our offices are open 24/7:
>
> Metropolitan Area
> (612) 522-1000


Such good advice!  Unfortunately, those people have no technical knowledge 
or skill at all, as far as I can tell.  Say "port" to them and see how 
they react (mixture of fear, embarrassment and defensiveness followed by 
calm acceptance).  Anyway, I did call and convinced them to connect me 
with someone who knows something.  He wasn't in, but they promise that he 
will call me later.  I'll tell you how it turns out.

Thanks for the phone number!

Mike

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From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 14 18:01:09 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E855E2.8B1E17DE@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141618110.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<41E84A65.6090507@info9.net> <41E855E2.8B1E17DE@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501141800240.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Ben Bargabus wrote:
> I'm assuming that there always has to be a provider involved at some
> point in this process to interface with POTS users and to provide the
> routing to a phone number for incoming calls, is that true?  It would be
> neat if I could ditch phone providers all together and set up my own own
> all IP based system but I'm guessing that's out of the question at this
> point.

Well, you *could* go all IP, but then you wouldn't be able to talk to the
PSTN at all.  :)  (Yes, you need a provider to interface VoIP<->PSTN.  
That will always be the case, although it wouldn't surprise me if in the
future some of the large telcos offered direct VoIP connections.)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


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From sfertch at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 18:28:49 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a05011416285d99e92@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:20:32 -0600, Ben Bargabus <ben_b@ppdonline.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
> some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
> little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
> Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
> that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
> [still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
> following items...
> 
> Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
> Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
> Caller ID - $6.95
> Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
> Voice Messaging - $6.95
> Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
> [Misc local fees] - $13.52
> [Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
> [long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82

I have Qwest as my phone and DSL/ISP.  Here's a breakdown of the phone charges:

Basic Services (line 1):       .18
2-Line custom choice:     39.95
Basic Services (line 2):       .18
Qwest Chioce DSL-DLX:  28.00
Qwest.net Basic-DSL        9.95   (No e-mail, no webpage.  Just connection)
Static IP-Block of 8          14.95
[Misc. Fed/state fees]      19.35
Long distance charges:    22.19

Total:                            134.79


I could save money by going down to a single phone line, and by
switching to DHCP instead of static IP's.

Look into Qwest's "Basic-DSL".  It'll save you some money. 
Personally, I haven't had more than a handfull of problems with Qwest.


-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

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From smac at visi.com  Fri Jan 14 20:06:05 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com>
Message-ID: <41E87A8D.90703@visi.com>

I don't have Vontage.

I have DSL and I don't pay anywhere near that much.
I use my Cell phone for all long distance.

I think your bill is a bit messed up.
It looks like you are getting double billed for DSL, the first 2 lines.

Dump Qwest.net as your ISP, get either visi.com or real-time.com I have 
visi.com.
Visi rates: $28 to qwest, $19.95 to visi
Real-time rates: $28 to qwest, $25 to real-time

By changing your ISP you will have to go without spam for a while :-D

For the $28 to quest and the $19.95 to visi I get 1.5mb down and 1mb up.

Dump Caller ID and go with an unlisted number I believe it's $5.00
Get rid of the long distance stuff, use your cell phone and calling cards.
"Lin-backer Inside wire repair plan" WTH is that, dump it.

I have kids so having a phone in the house at all times is important.
Qwest is more expensive when you don't have a phone line ($33.00)

Sam.

Ben Bargabus wrote:

>Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
>some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
>little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
>Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
>that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
>[still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
>following items...
>
>Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
>Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
>Caller ID - $6.95
>Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
>Voice Messaging - $6.95
>Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
>[Misc local fees] - $13.52
>[Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
>[long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82
>
>If I dump Qwest other than for my DSL connection do I just pay the
>$28.00 Qwest DSL Dlx fee or do I still pay for the basic line fee too? 
>Does Vonage have similar taxes and access charges to Qwest or are they
>truly $25/month out the door?  Qwest.net doesn't do a thing for me as a
>service provider so continuing to pay $21.95/month for them seems silly,
>can someone recommend a good but cheap alternative for DSL access as an
>ISP?  I really don't need anything but the other end of my connection. 
>I don't care about static IPs, I don't need phone support, I don't need
>web server space, I don't even need a POP account.  The only things I'd
>like are that they keep up with the 640kb I get from Qwest and that they
>don't cap total transfer bandwidth over any period of time (not that I
>really transfer that much but I don't want to have to worry about it).
>
>Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
>work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
>network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
>that you can pass on to a potential customer?
>
>Again, sorry for being off topic.
>Ben.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>  
>



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005


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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Fri Jan 14 22:46:35 2005
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04@smumn.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
Message-ID: <200501150446352785dabd33@mail.smumn.edu>

Well I hope it turns out to your favor!


Dave


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From clindholm at bigfoot.com  Fri Jan 14 23:14:32 2005
From: clindholm at bigfoot.com (Carl Lindholm)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] help recovering deleted files
In-Reply-To: <E1ComPB-0001uH-UQ@pirate.real-time.com>
References: <E1ComPB-0001uH-UQ@pirate.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <41E8A6B8.5040908@bigfoot.com>

I need help to recover some files that were not saved properly when the 
system was shut down improperly. can this be done?  The files are 
openoffice files. The recovery program brought back some of them but not 
all.
HELP?

-- 


Carl Lindholm
206 Maryknoll Drive
Stillwater,Mn 55082
Home (651) 439-8710
Cell (612) 327-5037

To fly one must throw them self at the ground really hard and miss.

The ride is the objective, the destination the mere excuse. :>) 


_______________________________________________
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From poptix at poptix.net  Sat Jan 15 01:54:32 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>

On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 01:26:56PM -0600, smac@visi.com wrote:
> I'm so glad I have DSL with VISI.com.

Glad in the "I'd be glad to donate bone marrow" sense?

Comcast is $67.95/mo for      3.2mbit/384kbit
           $87.95/mo for      4.2mbit/728kbit ("Pro" service)
TW is $44.95/mo for           3.2mbit/384kbit
VISI is $160/mo + $165/mo for 4.0mbit/864kbit (if you qualify, which most
        ^-VISI    ^-Telco                      don't)


Comcast has free install and 6 months at a reduced rate ($25/mo or so)
VISI has a $25 setup *fee*

This doesn't include various discounts for also having cable TV service,
1Q2005 Comcast is supposed to be upgrading everyone to the 4.2mbit service
and making 5.2mbit the Pro service.

Wait, stop there.. 

"but I get static IP's with DSL!"

My IP hasn't changed with Comcast in over a year.

"but I get a block of IP's with DSL!"

You can DHCP 5 addresses or so with Comcast, last time I bothered to check

"but I get my *own* IP's with my name and home address listed for the world
to see in a publicly accessable location!"

uhm, yeah. I don't want random people looking at that. 

The original problem in this thread is his linksys, by default they have
'block internet ping request' turned on, and he probably previously had
his windows box set as the DMZ to which the requests were forwarded. 

Also, if you think VISI hasn't portscanned their customers to see if they
are running various open relays/proxies you're more ignorant than I thought.

I also find it funny that you posted this from your work, which uses TW.

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

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From smac at visi.com  Sat Jan 15 08:36:17 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:49 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] help recovering deleted files
In-Reply-To: <41E8A6B8.5040908@bigfoot.com>
References: <E1ComPB-0001uH-UQ@pirate.real-time.com>
	<41E8A6B8.5040908@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <41E92A61.6010206@visi.com>

Some more information on what happened would help.
What distribution/version of Linux are you using?
What file system are you using?
Do you have any kind of backups?

What caused the system to shutdown?

Sam.

Carl Lindholm wrote:

> I need help to recover some files that were not saved properly when 
> the system was shut down improperly. can this be done?  The files are 
> openoffice files. The recovery program brought back some of them but 
> not all.
> HELP?
>



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005


_______________________________________________
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From natecars at real-time.com  Sat Jan 15 09:27:48 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote:
> Glad in the "I'd be glad to donate bone marrow" sense?
> 
> Comcast is $67.95/mo for      3.2mbit/384kbit
>            $87.95/mo for      4.2mbit/728kbit ("Pro" service)
> TW is $44.95/mo for           3.2mbit/384kbit

Just wanted to note that TW also has their "Premium" service, which is
6.0m/512k, and it's 84.95 alone or 69.95 with cable.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sat Jan 15 10:25:35 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501151020060.25238@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote:

> The original problem in this thread is his linksys, by default they have 
> 'block internet ping request' turned on, and he probably previously had 
> his windows box set as the DMZ to which the requests were forwarded.

Well, I never had a DMZ and I didn't change the way the Linksys router 
worked when I moved to my new address.  It is *possible* that I am not 
remembering correctly and ping stopped working when I started using the 
Linksys router, but I really don't think so.  I often use ping to check my 
connection so I'm almost 100% sure it was working before I moved.  I made 
no changes in the Linksys configuration when I moved.

I will look into this some more though.

Mike

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From markdeb.browne at comcast.net  Sat Jan 15 11:56:11 2005
From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Spam and Spyware
Message-ID: <E1Cpt1B-0007GL-Fh@pirate.real-time.com>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
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From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 12:42:17 2005
From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Spam and Spyware
In-Reply-To: <E1Cpt1B-0007GL-Fh@pirate.real-time.com>
References: <E1Cpt1B-0007GL-Fh@pirate.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <be0800f80501151042ee6d6c0@mail.gmail.com>

to keep this somewhat on topic:

spyware is no match for a bootable linux distro with captive-ntfs.

rm -r "/mnt/program files/common files/wintools"

hehe


On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:56:11 -0600, Mark Browne
<markdeb.browne@comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> I know a fair number of the groups members waste vast amounts of time
> fighting off malware. 
> 
> Now I find that people actually invest in the scum that make this stuff. 
> 
>   
> 
> http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/investors/ 
> 
>   
> 
> This is so messed up! 
> 
>   
> 
> Mark Browne 
> 
>   
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 


-- 
Loren H. Burlingame <loren@lhb.name>
GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
   -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock)

_______________________________________________
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From jimkana at zoominternet.net  Sat Jan 15 13:05:13 2005
From: jimkana at zoominternet.net (Jim)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linux on WYSE 2310
Message-ID: <20050115190514.9CF117F403@mua-3.zoominternet.net>

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part --------------
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Jan 15 17:16:06 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501152316.j0FNG6512798@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Macs for free

I have to mac's I would like to get rid of for free to a good home.

* Machintosh Perfoma 400
* Machintosh LC II

Thanks

Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From poptix at poptix.net  Sun Jan 16 07:46:35 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20050116134635.GQ23515@momentum.poptix.net>

On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:27:48AM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote:
> > Glad in the "I'd be glad to donate bone marrow" sense?
> > 
> > Comcast is $67.95/mo for      3.2mbit/384kbit
> >            $87.95/mo for      4.2mbit/728kbit ("Pro" service)
> > TW is $44.95/mo for           3.2mbit/384kbit
> 
> Just wanted to note that TW also has their "Premium" service, which is
> 6.0m/512k, and it's 84.95 alone or 69.95 with cable.

Nice, that's good info to have.

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

_______________________________________________
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From poptix at poptix.net  Sun Jan 16 07:48:18 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501151020060.25238@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501151020060.25238@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20050116134818.GR23515@momentum.poptix.net>

On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 10:25:35AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> Well, I never had a DMZ and I didn't change the way the Linksys router 
> worked when I moved to my new address.  It is *possible* that I am not 
> remembering correctly and ping stopped working when I started using the 
> Linksys router, but I really don't think so.  I often use ping to check my 
> connection so I'm almost 100% sure it was working before I moved.  I made 
> no changes in the Linksys configuration when I moved.
> 
> I will look into this some more though.
> 
> Mike

On linksys's semi-standard interface, click 'Security' in the navigation
header, the default page should be 'Firewall', if not, click 'Firewall' 
then locate the 'Block Anonymous Internet Requests' or 'Block WAN Ping'
option.

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

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From rpgoldman at real-time.com  Sun Jan 16 09:35:45 2005
From: rpgoldman at real-time.com (rpgoldman@real-time.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:50 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT:] perl question
Message-ID: <16874.35281.447367.499327@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


Is there any easy way to call get_console_fd from perl?  I need to
muck with my keyboard, and console-tools is not being cooperative....


Many thanks!
R

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From smac at visi.com  Sun Jan 16 10:15:37 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Spam and Spyware
In-Reply-To: <be0800f80501151042ee6d6c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Cpt1B-0007GL-Fh@pirate.real-time.com>
	<be0800f80501151042ee6d6c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EA9329.9030107@visi.com>

Loren can you expand upon what this does???

PLEASE! :-)


Sam.

Loren H. Burlingame wrote:

>to keep this somewhat on topic:
>
>spyware is no match for a bootable linux distro with captive-ntfs.
>
>rm -r "/mnt/program files/common files/wintools"
>
>hehe
>
>
>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:56:11 -0600, Mark Browne
><markdeb.browne@comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>
>> 
>> 
>>
>>I know a fair number of the groups members waste vast amounts of time
>>fighting off malware. 
>>
>>Now I find that people actually invest in the scum that make this stuff. 
>>
>>  
>>
>>http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/investors/ 
>>
>>  
>>
>>This is so messed up! 
>>
>>  
>>
>>Mark Browne 
>>
>>  
>>_______________________________________________
>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>



-- 
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From clay at fandre.com  Sun Jan 16 10:26:17 2005
From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Origin of "Ogg"
In-Reply-To: <20050114170918.GA30611@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <20050114170918.GA30611@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <20050116162616.GA10601@clavin>


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, John J. Trammell wrote:

> Still not supported by my iPod though.  :^)

Which is why you should have gotten an iRiver. My H320 can do
everything an iPod can do, and more. (longer battery life, color
display, can play videos, built-in FM tuner, plays ogg)


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From smac at visi.com  Sun Jan 16 10:10:36 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT:] perl question
In-Reply-To: <16874.35281.447367.499327@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16874.35281.447367.499327@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <41EA91FC.9050705@visi.com>

This link goes to the Minneapolis Perl Mongers Group.


http://minneapolis.pm.org/


Sam.

rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote:

>Is there any easy way to call get_console_fd from perl?  I need to
>muck with my keyboard, and console-tools is not being cooperative....
>
>
>Many thanks!
>R
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
>Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>  
>



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From bmaas at open-techsys.com  Sun Jan 16 10:59:39 2005
From: bmaas at open-techsys.com (Ben Maas)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [OT:] perl question
In-Reply-To: <16874.35281.447367.499327@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16874.35281.447367.499327@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <41EA9D7B.8050907@open-techsys.com>

rpgoldman@real-time.com wrote:
> Is there any easy way to call get_console_fd from perl?  I need to
> muck with my keyboard, and console-tools is not being cooperative....

There isn't any *native* support, however you should be able to get 
access through the C::DynaLib.  In order to use any C struct objects in 
Perl you'll also need to use C::Include.  As always, inter-lanaguage 
programming can be a little hairy, and I'm not familier with 
get_console_fd in particular, but it should work.

Links to these pacakages in CPAN:

http://search.cpan.org/~jtobey/C-DynaLib-0.55/DynaLib.pm
http://search.cpan.org/~amichauer/C-Include-1.40/Include.pm

> 
> Many thanks!
> R

No problem.

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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Jan 16 13:14:52 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501161914.j0GJEqo22418@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: 16 bit 100BaseT PC Card

I want to buy a PC Card 100Mbps wired LAN card for a very old laptop, so it cannot be a CardBus type.

An integrated card is not OK, because I may want to use it with another card.

LinkSys PCMPC100 would be perfect.

Send an offer.

Seller Email address: cschumann at twp-llc dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Jan 16 13:29:14 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501161929.j0GJTEE22973@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Intel PII 400 MMC-2 Module

This is an Intel MMC-2 CPU module with a Pentium II CPU running at 400MHz.

Intel model number is PMG40002001AA.
PM = Processor Module
G = MMC-2 at 266PE to 400 MHz
400 = 400MHz
02 = 256K cache
001 = First Design Revision
AA = First Processor Revision

The picture URL has a couple of pictures near the bottom.

7 day money back warranty.

eBay shows they sell for $11.50 to $39. I'll take the first $10 for it, if you pick it up, or $15 cash delivered to your door in the metro area. Or make an offer.

Will trade this item plus cash for any 256MB PC100 144-pin SODIMM.

Seller Email address: cschumann at twp-llc dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 14:04:21 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:52 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f05011612041d5d7a9d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:27:48 -0600 (CST), Nate Carlson
<natecars@real-time.com> wrote:
> Just wanted to note that TW also has their "Premium" service, which is
> 6.0m/512k, and it's 84.95 alone or 69.95 with cable.

As long as we're discussing bandwidth/price stuff, at work, we've been
using a frac DS3 10-Mbit full duplex link from TW.  We've been paying
about $1300/month for it, well last week, we got a note from a TW
salesperson offerring us our same service at $750.  Not bad, huh?  One
other nice thing is that they take care of the media conversion, so we
just plugged their RJ45 ethernet line directly into our router.

Anyways, sorry to divert further from the topic, but I just wanted to
throw that out there in case anyone is looking for good rates on this
type of service.

-Erik

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From auditodd at comcast.net  Sun Jan 16 23:09:49 2005
From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:53 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] SUSE v9.2 free ftp download
Message-ID: <41EB489D.1090306@comcast.net>

For those of you who may not have seen this yet.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20727

I've downloaded it already and successfully burned it to a DVD (hey, 
it's the first DVD I've burned with my DVD burner).
Note that it's only the DVD iso image, no cd images (except for a small 
64Meg mini-install CD image).

If you don't have broadband, it's going to take forever, the DVD iso 
image is 4.4Gigs.
-- 
Todd Young


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From adam at whee.org  Mon Jan 17 09:37:43 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:53 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f05011612041d5d7a9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<fc40260f05011612041d5d7a9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501170844160.24931@titan>

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005, Erik Anderson wrote:

> As long as we're discussing bandwidth/price stuff, at work, we've been
> using a frac DS3 10-Mbit full duplex link from TW.  We've been paying
> about $1300/month for it, well last week, we got a note from a TW
> salesperson offerring us our same service at $750.  Not bad, huh?  One
> other nice thing is that they take care of the media conversion, so we
> just plugged their RJ45 ethernet line directly into our router.

We got our TWT frac DS-3 a couple of years ago and pricing was good then 
(it was especially good on full DS-3 commits).  It was only a few months 
after we bought the two PA-2T3+ cards and smartnet that they announced 
their metro-area ethernet offering (so, after we dropped a bunch of money 
in DS-3 hardware...).  Pricing for the same speed service over MAE rather 
than DS-3 was considerably cheaper, as you can see, the hardware was 
cheaper, and the product seems to be just as good.  In fact, I setup a 
FreeBSD based router for a friend/webhost that had 10M to TW.  A cheap 
intel box, a handful of 100M NICs and a quick install and config of Zebra, 
and they had "hot router love" - a poor man's internet router taking full 
routes from 2 providers.  Performed flawlessly.  And they didn't have to 
drop $700 on 128M cisco-certified DIMMs.

I had a partial DS-3, a friend of mine runs a local ISP/hosting provider 
and has 200M to them, yet another friend at another hosting company has 
10M ethernet to them.  All of us have found them to be reliable, and 
support to be first-rate. I would highly recommend TWT to anyone looking 
for big pipe in the cities, especially if you're in the 494 or downtown 
areas where the fiber build is economical.  As above, get their 
well-priced metro ethernet service and throw together a cheap Linux box 
as a router.

I thought RT had turned up a TWT connection (in fact, I remember spouting 
off to Nate how great they were...), but I don't see 4323 in their path 
list.

The only thing I wish they had was a better BGP community system.  They 
supported NOEXPORT and NOADVERTISE, but I would've liked a way to control 
things like local pref, peer AS prepending, etc. using communities.

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From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org  Mon Jan 17 10:57:24 2005
From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:56:53 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <200501161914.j0GJEqo22418@crusader.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <001701c4fcb5$9e0b0920$0439a8c0@Kurama>

Have you tried Best Buy. I pick up a pcmcia card like that about a year ago
their.  

Joseph Key

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of TCLUG Classifieds
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 1:15 PM
To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: [TCLUG] New TCLUG Classified Ad

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: 16 bit 100BaseT PC Card

I want to buy a PC Card 100Mbps wired LAN card for a very old laptop, so it
cannot be a CardBus type.

An integrated card is not OK, because I may want to use it with another
card.

LinkSys PCMPC100 would be perfect.

Send an offer.

Seller Email address: cschumann at twp-llc dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


_______________________________________________
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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:06:41 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1105988801.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Windows with a copy of VMware.  What this means is that you can install
this particular piece of software and immediately `boot' into Windows. 
Considering the fact that it takes quite a while to install Windows
under VMware, this isn't very surprising.  However, I just took a look
at the website, and I don't see this product..

You can still get the `virgin' version of VMware, that installs a bare
VM, and there are versions available with Linux pre-installed.

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   MS Windows -- From the 
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   people who brought you  
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)  EDLIN! 
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ]

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:06:42 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1105988802.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Go West on Hwy 55 until you get to Buffalo.  Take a right on Hwy 25 north
and go about 1 mile north, past Walmart and the hospital.  Where the road
merges from a divided highway into a 2-lane road, turn left.  You should see
the newly rebuilt Public Works building.  There's lots of antennas and
stuff, you really can't miss it.  From there you'll see auction signs and
some directions on where to park.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:06:42 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1105988802.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Take I-94 East and turn south on Hwy 25 when you reach Monticello.  Drive
about 8 miles south until the road breaks into a divided highway.  You'll
see the public works building in all its glory on the right side, take a
right as soon as you pass the public works building.

-----------------------------------------------
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com



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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:07:02 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1105988822.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

I couldn't connect using Hyperterm, so I used telnet,...
followed the instructions from visi (or thought I was),

cbos>en
Password: [hit enter]
cbos#set nvram erase
   [warns that you have to write to make it effective]
cbos#write
cbos#rboot
 [and it hangs...]

Now I cannot even connect with telnet!!!

I'm stumped.  What's next?

gs




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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:07:24 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1105988844.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

location on the disc.  The system BIOS is able to read that section of
the CD and load it into memory.  If you burn the floppy image directly
to a CD, it is no longer what I would call a `true' CD.  It doesn't
follow any of the standards at all and wouldn't be recognizeable as a CD
by anything trying to read it.  You wouldn't be able to put anything
else on the CD (well, I suppose you could read it back with `dd', but
that's a suboptimal option).  Also, as it would (at most) only the boot
block of the floppy image would be read, you wouldn't be able to boot
off of it.

Now, I should point out that mkisofs is only one of several different
programs out there for making CDs.  Unfortunately, I can't name any off
the top of my head.

(/me goes and throws Google at that problem..)

There's a linux-kernel mailing list thread here:
[http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9908.3/0765.html]

Hmm..  I'm not finding much.  There is a modified version of mkisofs
called `mkhybrid', which is mostly for creating bootable CDs for the
Macintosh.  I am wondering what the `-G' generic bootable image option
is, though. (for mkisofs and mkhybrid)

There's a patch to mkisofs at http://www.colonel-panic.com/linux/ that
was referenced in the above lkml thread, which might help for certain
things, but I'm not sure.

Again from the kernel thread, H. Peter Anvin is apparently working on a
boot loader named `lbcon'.  However, I'm not sure if it's any better or
worse than the other boot loaders out there (GRUB is good, for
instance), and he hasn't show any code that I'm aware of.


Well, that's all getting a bit complicated.  If you had a while to go
write a new bootloader, this stuff might start getting really
interesting, but that's probably only going to hurt things.

Getting back to what John said about 1.7MB recovery floppies, I wonder
if you could get one of those to work by just using dd to bring them up
to 2.88MB.  I don't really know much about filesystem layouts, so I
don't know if that would be really bad or no problem at all.  Also, with
CDs, you don't need to have much on the initial floppy image anyway. 
I'd just have a kernel and an initial ramdisk with enough intelligence
to search around for the CD and mount it as the root filesystem (which
is essentially what the LinuxCare BBC does, though it mounts a
compressed image of a filesystem that is on an iso9660 filesystem..)

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   In the carpool lane to 
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   Nirvana. 
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)                             
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ]

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:08:06 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1105988886.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

ipchains -p TCP -y -d 199.95.207.0/24
ipchains -p TCP -y -d 199.95.208.0/24

-- 
        \\\|///
      \\  - -  //
       (  @ @ )
----oOOo--(_)-oOOo--------------------------------------------
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055
---------------Ooooo------------------------------------------
               (   )
      ooooO     ) /
      (   )    (_/
       \ (
        \_)

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:08:12 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1105988892.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"High performance Lucent DHCP, Microsoft and IBM DHCP servers..."

Anything that uses "High performance" and "Microsoft" in the same sentence
has to be pure evil.

Adam Maloney
Systems Administrator
Sihope Communications

On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Scott Dier wrote:

> * Adam Maloney <adamm@sihope.com> [000824 13:37]:
> > Does anyone know of an IP allocation tool to help organize/maintain them?
> > There was something on freshmeat that I saw last month but it wasn't
> 
> There's allways Lucent's QIP <evil-grin>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scott Dier <dieman@ringworld.org> #nicnac@efnet 
> http://www.ringworld.org/  finger:dieman@destiny.ringworld.org
> 


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:08:23 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1105988903.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

program - although it is designed for backing up entire networks (rather
than one PC).   amanda also supports "auto-changers", if you configure it
to.   I have never set up amanda, but at first glance it looked a bit
involved.   It's probably not as bad as it looks. 

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Mike Glaser wrote:

> This is my first attempt at using a tape backup on a Linux/UNIX system and I 
> am in need of some help. I am faced with having to take whatever I can find 
> out of a box of of old equipment and find a tape backup solution where I work.
> 
> I have searched through all of the Linux HOW-TOs that I could find and 
> haven't come up with anything.
> 
> Here's exactly where I am at...
> Have one one (apparently working) BusLogic BT-946C PCI SCSI card. I have 
> found this card on RedHat's list of Tier 1 supported SCSI adapters.
> 
> I have one HP internal DDS2 tape drive with part number C1539-69201. I 
> haven't found the common name for it yet. I also have one HP external 
> SureStore Tape 6000 drive. I only need one of these to work. I thought I would 
> go with the internal unit as that is known to be functional and more 'out-of-the-
> way'
> 
> I installed the SCSI card into a Mandrake 7.0 system I am going to use for 
> testing purposes. Kudzu found the new hardware and correctly identified it 
> and configured it. I then rebooted with the internal drive connected to the 
> SCSI card and the system booted normally without any mention of new 
> hardware. I am not sure if it should have 'discovered' the drive or not.
> 
> Question: How do I communicate with this tape drive? It is the only SCSI 
> device in the system and I have no experience with SCSI devices.
> 
> I need to figure out how to mount it somehow so I can use dd, cpio, tar, etc. to 
> write to it. Would Amanda be a good tool to use?
> 
> If anyone could point me to some how-tos or web sites that could help I would 
> appreciate it. I may pick up the O'Reilly book 'Unix Backup and Recovery' in 
> the next day or two - I think that it could be valuable considering my level of 
> expertise at the moment.
> 
> Thank-you,
> Mike Glaser
> 
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
What the president of the Motion Picture Association of America says about 
taking away your constitutional rights:

"I'm rather jubilant now. What Judge Kaplan did was blow away every one of 
these brittle and fragile rebuttals. He threw out fair use; he threw out 
reverse engineering; he threw out linking."

- Jack Valenti, president of the Motion Picture Association of America.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
______         _ __         "If you don't have the freedom to use what you
  /           ' )  )               own - then you do not own anything."
 / o ______    /  / _  . .    No apologies to Jack Valenti or the MPAA
/ <_/ / / <   /  (_</_(_/_  -- tneu@visi.com / http://www.visi.com/~tneu --


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:08:54 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.8.1105988934.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

at the end which disables/reconfigures services.  All of the changes to
the distro are noted in the docs on the ISO.  Kinda cool.

download:

ftp://ftp.software.umn.edu/pub/linux/gopher-linux/

____________________________
Mike Neuharth
ADCS Technology Specialist
http://www.umn.edu/adcs

E-Mail		: mjn@umn.edu
Page Mail	: 6126486512@page.metrocall.com
http://nifty.dsl.visi.com/
____________________________


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:08:56 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.9.1105988936.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

ssh -X user@sun-box
ssh will set your display to be redirected to linux-box over a ssh tunnel,
automatically. 

-- 
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055

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From minibiker at prontomail.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: minibiker at prontomail.com (Blake)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:09:09 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] [TCLUG:21417] RE: onvoy (mr.net) dsl + dialup
Message-ID: <3CAA80303CD84D115AD40005B80A9E19@minibiker.prontomail.com>

I am an MR.net (onvoy) dialup customer, and I enjoy a hearty 14.4kbps for $25/month. Im not sure if its the line quality in my neighborhood (blaine) or the isp...(suggestions on a good dialup isp?).
Just thought I'd let you know.
Oh yeah, MR.net hasnt complained (yet) about all the (insert file over 3mb here) I download or anything...I think they pass the responsiblity to the end user.
-Blake

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:09:12 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.10.1105988952.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

------
In the httpd.conf file there is an option for HostNameLookups which is
usually set to off. You set this to on, after considering the warning
that
it can slow things down. Then, check the string specifying the
access_log
format (I believe its in srm.conf) to make sure that this will be
logged.

Dale Hites
President
Assessment Research, Inc.
------

HTH,
Troy

mjn wrote:
> 
> In the access_logs for Apache none of the hosts are showing up as their
> DNS entries.  All I get for every is an IP address.  Which, while not a
> terrible thing, makes trying to use analog very difficult...
> 
> Any ideas why they wouldn't be resolving?
> 
> Nothing is out of the scope of stupidity, any suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ____________________________
> Mike Neuharth
> ADCS Technology Specialist
> http://www.umn.edu/adcs
> 
> E-Mail          : mjn@umn.edu
> Page Mail       : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com
> http://nifty.dsl.visi.com/
> ____________________________
> 
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-- 
Troy Johnson   mailto:john1536@tc.umn.edu   http://umn.edu/~john1536/
The same applies for other kinds of long-lasting low-level pain. [...]
The body's response to being jabbed, pierced, and cut is to produce
endorphins. [...]  So here's my programme for breaking that cycle of
dependency on Windows: get left arm tattooed with dragon motif, buy a
crate of Jamaican Hot! Pepper Sauce, get nipples pierced.  With any
luck that will produce enough endorphins to make Windows completely
redundant, and I can then upgrade to Linux and get on with things.
	-- Pieter Hintjens

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:09:42 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.11.1105988982.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

http://www.linux-ide.org/chipsets.html

scroll to the bottom of the page.  I see the list of vendors that support
it, but I have no idea how they stack up in this arena.  I also don't know
what I'd need to do to get the support in the system (do I need to go to a
devel kernel?)

Adam Maloney
Systems Administrator
Sihope Communications

On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Scott wrote:

>      Does Linux even support ATA/100 at this point?  I seem to
> remember it being a little while before it did 33 & 66, and I haven't
> heard anything mentioned in the 2.3 devel about it either, though it's
> not something that I've been folloing extremely closely.
> 
> Scott
> -- ossuary.net -- 
> "Only dead girls like me." -Voltaire
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:10:21 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.12.1105989021.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

http://thewb.com/hype/index.shtml

Season Premiere: Sun Oct 8, 8pm on the WB

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:10:28 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.13.1105989028.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

window managers that get installed, everything is in the menus already, and
you can choose from about 8 different window managers on login.

Plus, it has a ton of goodies that don't normally come with other distros.
nmap, aterm (modified rxvt that has all the features of Eterm and a small
memory footprint), colorized gcc so compile errors and warnings are
highlighted, vi with syntax highlighting, and a ton of other cool things.
Mandrake was originally based off Redhat, but they've since gone their own
way.  The install is nicer than Redhat's, in fact, on install it will
download and install crypto packages like OpenSSH, OpenSSL libs, apache with
mod_ssl, cryptographic kernel extensions, and other stuff (you have to
choose Expert install for this).  You can also install ReiserFS on install
and format partitions with it, except it won't set up your initrd to load
the ReiserFS module on boot, so your /boot and / still have to be ext2.

I still use Redhat on servers, but mostly because Dell sucks and ships their
servers with proprietary RAID cards and they only have a module disk for
Redhat.  For the last year or so, I've been using Mandrake for a general
desktop machine and it works excellent.

Jay  



-----Original Message-----
From: Blake [mailto:minibiker@prontomail.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:18 AM
To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: [TCLUG:22353] Slackware/Caldera/Installfest/kPPP


Someone bring a copy of Slackware and RedHat to the installfest, I need a
(burned) copy of 
both...Caldera didnt come with minicom, and kPPP doesnt dial right. Someone
told me that 
Slack comes with minicom.
Heres a log of what kPPP does:

ATZ ;turn on modem
OK ;response from modem
ATDT6122527007  ;dial mr.net
OK  ;response from modem

After that, kPPP insists on sitting there and pooping on itself...(I have an
external modem btw) 
-Blake (Pizza is Linux compatable)

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:10:47 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.14.1105989047.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>


www.openoffice.org
             
www.openoffice.org is running Apache/1.3.13-dev (Unix) ApacheJServ/1.1.2 
AuthMySQL/2.20 on Linux 
             
Apache is also being used by Javasoft, Financial Times, The Royal Family, 
Halcyon Software, and Verio. 

Linux users include Slashdot, The British Royal Family, Deja News, Etoys, and 
Rackspace.

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:11 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.15.1105989071.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

------------------------------------------------------
Authenticated Internet access. Customers with Internet sites using Windows 2000 authentication will require CALs for authenticated users connecting to their sites. Such customers may comply with this licensing requirement by purchasing CALs in "Per seat" or "Per Server" mode. Or, they may opt to purchase the new Internet Connector license for unlimited Internet CALs on a single server. Access to Internet sites by anonymous users does not require a CAL. 
------------------------------------------------------
The Internet Connector runs about $2K (nice symmetry ;-) and allows unlimited authenticated web users per server. 

These licenses are written so that the average person (read: non-lawyer) is so confused they buy the most encompassing (and expensive) option just to be safe.

Later.
Jack


On Wed, 18 October 2000, Nate Carlson wrote:

> 
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Amy Tanner wrote:
> > AFAIK, NT license does not matter for websites. NT license is for
> > users logging in to the box (file/print, etc).  However, if you have
> > a SQLServer db, there's a $2500 thingy you're supposed to buy since you 
> > can have a ton of connections (users) to your database.  This is how it 
> > was a few years ago, anyway.  Don't know about Access.
> 
> I was reading _somewhere_ (don't remember where) that they changed the
> licensing with the release of Win2000 so that you would have to be
> licensed for every simultaneous web site connection. I wish I could find
> that article.. I think it was on /.
> 
> -- 
> Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
> http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500
> 

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:21 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.16.1105989081.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

TCP...

text...

thingy
  "Something sort of like an object, that you may or may not know the name
of, but that you can refer to with circumlocutions like \"that hangy-down
thingy that dangles in the back of your throat\"..."

OMG, I'm escaping quotes in an e-mail - Perl has owned me and my 'fro.

Other interesting items in the glossary include "UNIX", "static", and
"regular expression" (I'm sure there are many more).

Adam Maloney
Systems Administrator
Sihope Communications


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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:29 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.17.1105989089.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

is an issue with your network driver.

-- 
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX:132)
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (FAX)  763-428-9126
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (PCS) 612-306-6055
Rogers, MN  55374           | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:40 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.18.1105989100.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

install just about every package in debian and not have package X break
package Y, and have everything start up out of the box. 

Debian is pretty strict security wise with their default configurations. I'm
not saying you should trust them entirely though. 

If you are being lazy, yes you can use the -y switch with apt and apt will
answer yes to all the prompts created by the package maintainer. This is a
rather dargerous switch to have, but it can be extremely useful when
combined with the -d switch. 

Example: I can set up a cron job to run
apt-get update (updates the list of available packages)
apt-get -d -y upgrade (downloads upgraded packages, but takes no other
action. -y suppress the X packages upgraded, need to download XXX bytes, do
you want to continue? message)

With that going you'll have your any security updates allready downloaded
when you pull into the office in the morning. Or you won't have to wait for
the download phase when doing an upgrade to the unstable system. This is a
rather useful cronjob if you're running debian unstable on a modem. Set it
to download the new packages while you're asleep or away from home.

> With such a system, I can see a whole new crop of cracker attacks as a
> result of such ever-user-friendly, "plug-and-play"ish packages.

I do belive Red Hat allready experienced this with their update system. One
of their deamons running as root had a default password for every RedHat box
or something. Good FUD material until it was pointed out ummm, MSSQL
defaults to no password on the sa account. 

If anything, the packages from the official debian archives are more secure
then those you compile yourself. Ever look into what it takes to become a
official debian maintainer? It's a lengthy process of meeting (in person)
keysigning, and what not. 

Personally, I'd rather grab my software pre-compiled from the official
debian archives than compile it myself. The end product, as stated before,
is basically the same. The debian source packages are just an added
convience. Yes, I could grab the source from freshmeat, and create my own
debian package OR just install it to /usr/local, but why should I when the
official package maintainer has made it that much easier for me? 

As for the configurations, well, if there was something really icky in a
default config in debian, the package would be updated and thrown into the
security archive or just replaced if it came from the unstable branch. Often
the software doesn't have a default config, but generates one based on your
responses. You are still encouraged to check it out and make sure everything
is ok. 

It almost sounds like you opinion is "I have to go through the code bit by
bit before it goes on my server." Well, if that's the way you like to do
things, fine by me, knock yourself out. Me, I'll take pre-packaged software
when I can get it and compile it when I need to. Maybe I should just shutup
about Linux and go install OpenBSD. :P~

> In contrast, I would encourage the download and compilation of the
> sources.  Aside from what's in the compiler itself, this is total
> control.  As slick as debs or rpms are, I can't help but feel as though
> they're sloppy and a "lazy" method for running (supposedly) trusted
> executables.

There is a certin joy to compiling your own biniaries, but if you don't do
it in a "correct" manner, you're asking for just as much trouble as your are
by answering yes to everything. On systems that do have package managment,
you also risk breaking that package managment. If you're compiling it
yourself, it's best not to install it to /usr but to /usr/local. (The idea
behind local is that this software is specific to your local setup, and
isn't found in the "stock" distribution/package/etc.) You could also use
/opt over /usr/local, but I never really got the point of /opt. Yes, it's
optional. By that definition, everything that isn't the base system should
be in /opt. 

I don't know if you had any issues with the stow suggestion, but I really
like stow. It give you another level of control that you don't get when you
just compile and make install. And it makes it extremely easy to remove
custom compiled software. I haven't encountered anything that broke with
stows methods, even vmware was ok when I forced it to install in
/usr/local/stow/vmware (/usr/local/stow/vmware/man,
/usr/local/stow/vmware/bin, /usr/local/stow/vmware/doc,
/usr/local/stow/vmware/lib, etc...) I had to change the path at every
prompt, but I won't spend more than 10 minutes tracking down every file it
installed should I ever want to remove it. 

If you want no package control what so ever, feel free to choose slackware.
It's package managment gets to job done, but compared to an RPM or deb based
system, pretty ruidmentry. I can see the appeal there if you're installing
say, one server and you want it to be secure and you don't want anything you
don't absoutely need. If you get into mutiple servers/workstations,
managment/version control/etc are necissities in the eyes of most. 

There is yet another advantage to package managment systems. The public
servers I have here are bare minimum. No compiler, no libiaries and the
like. With debian's make-kpgk tool I can easily compile new kernels for
these servers on my workstation and scp the resultion deb to the server for
installation. 

Hmmm, enough for now me thinks. =)

-- 
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX:132)
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (FAX)  763-428-9126
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (PCS) 612-306-6055
Rogers, MN  55374           | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:42 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.19.1105989102.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

for these software packages might be too restrictive to even shove them in
non-free. 

You'll probally have to grab biniary or source tarballs of your favorite mp3
encoder (blade, lame...whatever)

-- 
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX:132)
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (FAX)  763-428-9126
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (PCS) 612-306-6055
Rogers, MN  55374           | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.20.1105989103.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

    Ethertap provides packet reception and transmission for user
    space programs. It can be viewed as a simple Ethernet device,
    which instead of receiving packets from a network wire, it receives
    them from user space.

    Ethertap can be used for anything from AppleTalk to IPX to even
    building bridging tunnels. It also has many other general purpose
    uses.

    Ethertap also can do ARP for you, although this is not enabled by
    default.

Ryan Bethke



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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:46 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.21.1105989106.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

the same set of warnings when I compile nkfs against a 2.2.16 kernel.


-- 


                           -.bill.layer.-
                          
-.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.-

           -.frogtown.-     -.minnesota.-      -.u.s.a.-

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:52 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.22.1105989112.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

suprising since I now play Quake 3 under Linux.) You could try libesd-alsa0
instead of libesd0. (My onboard Via sound is supported through Alsa, if this
doesn't apply to you, ignore me!)

I might also try using different kernels for Debian and RedHat. Grab the
latest source, and then apt-get install alsa-source. To compile your kernel,
use make-kpkg. To make things really easy, you should be able to borrow the
config for your current kernel. (My config is at /boot/config-2.2.17 after
installing a kernel.) 

The steps to make-kpkg go something like this:
make menuconfig
make-kpkg --revision=custom.1.0 kernel_image
make-kpkg modules_image (this builds extra modules in /usr/src/modules. The
Debian packages for lm-sensors, alsa-source, i2c, and PCMICA extract to
/usr/src/moduels.) 
cd /usr/src
dpkg -i kernel-image-version.deb modules-image-version.deb
Cross fingers and reboot. 

--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:11:54 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.23.1105989114.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

contains just the Linux Java client, and perhaps some Java based
applications... but I may be wrong. The magazine ad refers to "A gazillion
(!?) business apps, ready to run native in your pure Linux ... environment". Is
a thin client running a local Java application considered "running native"? That
seems to stretch the definition of 'native' IMO.

For that matter, just how many is a gazillion?

---
Bill Layer
Sales Technician
<b.layer@vikingelectronics.com>

+----------------------------------+
     Viking Electronics, Inc.
       1531 Industrial St.
    Hudson, WI. 54016 - U.S.A
      715.386.8861 ext. 210
 <http://www.vikingelectronics.com>
+----------------------------------+

"Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century"
    Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0
 

From mailresponse2 at g7ps.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: mailresponse2 at g7ps.com (News Publishing)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:04 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New Qchex Service for Quicken Users !
Message-ID: <200011140356.eAE3uT410824@sprite.real-time.com>

ELECTRONIC NEWS RELEASE
*** using e-mail keeps us informed and protects our natural resources ***

November 13, 2000 - San Diego, California
 
Qchex.com introduces a new financial convenience service for institutions, businesses and individuals: 
Qchex!
http://www.qchex.com

The unique payment solution (patent pending) allows users to securely manage their bank account 
information on the internet as well as instantly send and receive paper checks.  Qchex is based on 
distributing checks via e-mail. Recipients receive check notification and are linked to a secure server for 
download and instant print of the check for bank deposit. Once printed, the sender will receive instant 
confirmation that payment was received. 

Qchex can be used for any personal and business purpose, such as paying vendors, utility companies, 
credit cards, payroll, funding investments, internet purchases, memberships or sending money to family 
members and friends. Various FREE programs are available for individuals, businesses and institutions 
wanting to accept Qchex integrated with their payment system.

Users can choose from three service plans:

Plan 1: 50 Checks FREE per month, no monthly service charge
Plan 2: 250 Checks FREE per month* and $5 monthly service charge
Plan 3: 500 Checks FREE per month*, database upload for automated check distribution and $20 monthly 
service charge.

*Any checks beyond the included FREE amounts are 5 cents each.

Unlike offerings from other financial institutions the service does not incur excessive interest, hidden fees 
or penalties, limitations of use, or involvement of costly credit card transactions. Both senders and 
receivers of payment benefit from Qchex and share significant cost savings. Protection of privacy and 
security are maintained carefully with state-of-the-art policies and technology. To start and setup Qchex 
takes entering a name, an e-mail address and specifying a password. That's it!

For a live Qchex demo click on the following link: 
http://www.qchex.com

Yours truly,

Qchex.com
Public Relations 
Feedback@qchex.com



Note:
If you WANT to receive information about Qchex and new developments in the future, please click on the 
following link:  
http://www.globalzon2k.com/scripts/mfm_ae.asp?e=tclug-list@mn-linux.org

If you do NOT WANT to hear about Qchex and related news in the future, please click on the following 
link:
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From mailresponse2 at g7ps.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: mailresponse2 at g7ps.com (Qchex.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:10 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Send & Accept Checks by Email. FREE !
Message-ID: <200011160031.eAG0VF407787@sprite.real-time.com>

SEND & ACCEPT CHECKS BY EMAIL!

50 Checks per month FREE. No fees!
*Efficient Business Solutions available!

To start and for more details click below:
http://www.qchex.com

*** electronic news keep you informed and save natural resources ***

Note:
To Opt-In on future Qchex information, please click on the following link:  
http://www.globalzon2k.com/scripts/mfm_ae.asp?e=tclug-list@mn-linux.org

To Opt-Out on future Qchex information, please click on the following link:
http://www.globalzon2k.com/scripts/mfm_de.asp?e=tclug-list@mn-linux.org




From mailresponse2 at g7ps.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: mailresponse2 at g7ps.com (eNews)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:12 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] New PC software: VersaCheck 2001 !
Message-ID: <200011170226.eAH2QuP26365@sprite.real-time.com>

NEW PRODUCT LAUNCH:

V e r s a C h e c k  2 0 0 1

CREATE AND PRINT YOUR OWN CHECKS, OR - - -
SEND & ACCEPT THEM BY EMAIL AND PRINT THEM AT YOUR DESKTOP!

The VersaCheck 2001 family of check creation and management software, for PCs running the Windows 
operating system, is now available at office superstores and computer retailers near you, or directly from 
the internet

Works with your financial software!

To start saving now and for more details click below:

http://www.g7ps.com

*** electronic news keep you informed and protect our natural resources ***

Note:
To Opt-In on future VersaCheck information, please click on the following link:  
http://www.globalzon2k.com/scripts/mfm_ae.asp?e=tclug-list@mn-linux.org

To Opt-Out on future VersaCheck information, please click on the following link:
http://www.globalzon2k.com/scripts/mfm_de.asp?e=tclug-list@mn-linux.org




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:14 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.24.1105989134.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

and that nobody is working on fixing it right now.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18530

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |
crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |
Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378  |

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:21 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.25.1105989141.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:22 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.26.1105989142.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'lists.real-time.com'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman'

MAILMAN_OWNER     = 'mailman-owner@%s' % DEFAULT_HOST_NAME

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private'

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in Defaults.py.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:34 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.27.1105989154.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

    It is an effort to accelerate development of new gcc features 
    by providing a more open development model than gcc has 
    traditionally used.

So, while egcs certainly has some optimizations WRT compiling all the
nifty C++ features, that doesn't imply anything about the demise of C. 

Andy

>     - Jamie


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:12:37 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.28.1105989157.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

where $g is qualified return address and $d date stamp

>From bob@domain.com  Mon Nov 27 14:14:02 CST 2000

and the cat all files into one has the cavaet that a blank line
separates each message (this should already be the case, but something
to be aware of).

Eric

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:13:13 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.29.1105989193.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

an ip_masq_gabber module similar to ip_masq_icq. Else if your the only one using
gabber behind both of your nat's then you could port forward through the cisco
and through your firewall those ports that gabber uses.

I could be wrong.



Timothy Wilson wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I'm having trouble getting jabber clients, specifically Gabber, to work with
> my DSL line. I've tried hooking my computer directly to the 675 and also
> from behind the additional firewall that I have in place. Everything is
> NAT-enabled. Has anyone else got it working?
>
> Also, I've put up a little diagram of my home network on my page at
> http://www.visi.com/~wilson/
>
> Any comments or recommendations would be appreciated.
>
> -Tim
>
> --
> Tim Wilson      | Visit Sibley online:         | Check out:
> Henry Sibley HS | http://www.isd197.k12.mn.us/ | http://www.zope.org/
> W. St. Paul, MN |                              | http://slashdot.org/
> wilson@visi.com |   <dtml-var pithy_quote>     | http://linux.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@lists.real-time.com
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:13:17 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.30.1105989197.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

file.  i think this probably helps out when a mailer like pine is being
used and multiple procs accessing the same mail boxes cause read-only
locks...i am probably wrong but lock files, whatever their purpose here
are usually a good thing.

> > * ^TO:.*tclug-list@lists.real-time.com
>        ^ That : should not be there.  ^TO matches ^To:, but I don't think
> 	 ^TO: matches anything.
> > tclug

Alright.  So i was colon happy.  Lets see how it flies now.

____________________________
Mike Neuharth
ADCS Technology Specialist
http://www.umn.edu/adcs

E-Mail          : mjn@umn.edu
Page Mail       : 6126486512@page.metrocall.com
http://nifty.dsl.visi.com/
____________________________



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:13:44 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.31.1105989224.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

too extremely slow either.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:14:25 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.32.1105989265.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

you don't need special drivers in your os to use it. 

Instead of having /dev/cdrw you'll most likely want to sym link /dev/hdc
(/dec/scd0, or whatever your drive shows up as) to /dec/cdrw ( ln -s
/dev/scd0 /dev/cdrw ) as adding/removing devices may change the location of
your drive sometime down the road. 

fstab would be the same as your cdrom:
/dev/cdrw /mnt/cdrw iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noauto 0 0

I really don't know anything about IDE burners. As of a couple weeks ago the
my last IDE drive failed and my machine is now 100% scsi. For the sake of
cheap storage I'm sending the IDE disks in (hey they're still under waranty)
but most likely they'll only have ogg and mp3 on them. :)


--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055
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Content-Disposition: attachment;
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begin:vcard 
n:Zbikowski;Andy
tel;cell:612-306-6055
tel;home:952-591-0977
tel;work:763-428-9119
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.ltiflex.com
org:LTI Flexible Products;Information Services
adr:;;21801 Industrial Blvd;Rogers;MN;55374;USA
version:2.1
email;internet:andyzb@ltiflex.com
title:Computer Systems Administrator
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Andy Zbikowski
end:vcard

--------------D8094B3D4964ADFC95C0428F--


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:15:01 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.33.1105989301.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Package: netenv 0.82-10
Configure your system for different network environments.

Netenv creates a file containing variable assignments which reflect the current
environment. It is especially useful for notebook computers, since it is used
(if configured) by the PCMCIA setup scheme included in the Debian pcmcia-cs 
package and the plip setup script included as an example in this package. You
can also use netenv configure your windowmanager or your printing environment.

Note that you either have to specify a kernel parameter or enter the chosen 
environment by hand during boot time. The boot process will stop until you
entered something.


Package: divine 0.7.2-1
Automatic IP configuration detection for laptops

A utility to locate current network address via arp requests and perform
light reconfigurations based on its findings.

"divine" is intended for laptop users or people who use their machines 
in different networks all the time. It is meant to be run from the 
PCMCIA network initialization scripts.

For more information see: http://www.fefe.de/divine

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |
crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |
Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378  |

From fertch at mninter.net  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: fertch at mninter.net (fertch@mninter.net)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:15:12 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] LILO issues
Message-ID: <200101311756.LAA09751@mail.swdata.com>

> Well, what hard drive is set as the boot device? You want LILO on this
> device, not the device where you installed Linux. (IE, if you installed
> Linux on hdb1, you want lilo to be installed on hda.) 

I tried various things when putting it to a hard disk.  One thing that I didn't 
see, which I remember from putting Slackware on my laptop, is it never asked me 
which drive I wanted to setup as bootable.  Where do I designate this when 
dealing with multiple drives?
> 
> Linux will install and run from just about anywhere, but you have to install
> LILO on that first hard drive (and not the first partition on the first hard
> drive!)
> 
I tried different partitions to help distribute the load: /var on /dev/sda2, 
swap on /sda1, /home on /dev/hdb1, and so on.  I wasn't sure if this was causing 
the boot problems or not.  Is there a problem with having a partition setup like 
this?

> As for the scsi problems, check and make sure your scsi drivers are loading.
> If you're booting off SCSI, your SCSI drivers must be compiled in to the
> kernel and not loaded as modules. Typing 'dmesg | less' should display the
> information you need to see if your SCSI card is detected when Linux boots.
> 

Will have to check more on this later.  I thought that the scsi drivers were 
loading.  Slackware asked me which kernel I wanted to use to boot.  I told it to 
use the boot disk (with scsi card modules on it: aic7xxx.s).  Thought that might 
have done it.  I also said for it to load the scsi things on setup.  When 
looking at the fstab file, I noticed that my floppy, cd-rom, and scsi HDD 
weren't listed in there.  





From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:15:44 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.34.1105989344.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

nt/2000) machines, and seems to be mild otherwise.  it didnt change the
default homepage on IE like the love bug did, (some are saying that it is
a love bug mutation)

We got our exchange box offline pretty quickly (glad i use qmail on my own
box, so im not cut off like the rest of my company!) and we have are just
checking the norton client installs... and trying to get the exchange db
scanned!

duncan

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote:

> Anyone know what it doesn other than email itself out to everyone you know?
> I don't know VB, and even if I did, the script is all obfuscated... Or
> maybe Visual Studio does that when you generate a VBS script...
> 
> Gabe
> 
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 01:09:31PM -0600, Dave Kleist wrote:
> > 
> > On 2001.02.12 13:04:53 -0600 dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote:
> > >  About 1 minute before I got this email from the
> > > list, I got a virus advisory forwarded to me from someone else:
> > > 
> > > > There is a new E-mail borne virus that is currently spreading throughout
> > > > the world.
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > > The virus is reported to have an attachment named ANNAKOURNIKOVA.JPG.VBS.
> > > 
> > > Hilarious.  Crazy Windows email clients :)
> > 
> > Gonna be big.  I've gotten it twice in 20 minutes.  Makes me feel self-righteous
> > having switched over to Balsa.  
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >    Dave Kleist
> >    dkleist@acm.org
> >    "The covers of this book are too far apart."
> >               - Ambrose Bierce
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > tclug-list mailing list
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 

-- 
||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||
duncan shannon            .-.
duncan@sodatrain.com      /v\
                         // \\
                        /(   )\   L   I   N   U   X
                         ^^-^^   >Phear the Penguin<




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:15:46 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.35.1105989346.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

disguise itself from Anti-Virus software.

Jon Erickson


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:15:56 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.36.1105989356.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

> Ouch.  Symptom: Routing table updates are not received when RIPv2 is
> used.

I can see how this could be a problem - but I'm not using RIP.

> DOUBLE ouch.  When you try to set a password, any uppercase
> characters are converted to lowercase. Additionally, note that
> passwords set in a previous version of CBOS do retain their case
> after the CPE software is upgraded to Release 2.4.1.

Another I'm not certain I care. I've got all the remote controls
disabled - the only config tool I use is the direct serial
connection. (And I may be insufficiently paranoid, but I don't bother
the password that.)

I've got three PC's with hard-coded IP addresses, I believe I've
turned off IPCP, there's not DHCP anywhere - I don't think it has any
issues that affect me. Well, the VIP stuff _might_ at some future
point - after I figure out what it is.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun@fireopal.org

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:16:37 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.37.1105989397.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

if=Win98Boot.bin of=/dec/fd0 to create one. 

You'll have to extract the disk2 exe/zip and copy the some of the dos utils
your new bootable floppy. There should be a utility there for configuring
the cards. (sorry, don't remember what it is.) 

Reboot, boot from the floppy, run the config utility. If you have aa PNP
bios, set the cards to plug and pray mode. If you don't have a PNP bios, set
the irqs and stuff manually. (Try not to conflict with anything). Reboot to
Linux and you should have better luck. 

If you're running Debian, install the 3c5x9utils package and read the
documentation. I belive this package will allow you to do the same thing as
the tools on the 3com driver disk. If you don't have Debian,
http://freshmeat.net/projects/3c5x9setup/

Never used the Linux tools myself.

--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055
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Content-Disposition: attachment;
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begin:vcard 
n:Zbikowski;Andy
tel;cell:612-306-6055
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tel;work:763-428-9119
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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:16:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.38.1105989403.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

(CD-Writing HOW-TO), section 2.1 Quickstart,  type the following
commands on one line (sets up a new link to the SCSI device)  
cd /dev && rm cdrom && ln -s scd0 cdrom  (I can't remember if I had
problems with permissions here also).

As I said, I actually use sr0 and sr1 for my drives (not scd0 and scd1).
 I think you should be able to pick up the correct device name by
reading the boot messages when you start up your system.

HTH,

    - Dave


On 2001.03.03 20:06:58 -0600 Bryan A. ZImmer wrote:
> What am I doing wrong? Does anyone have a suggestion?
> 
> Any answers would be appreciated.
> 
-- 
Dave Kleist
   dkleist@acm.org
   "The covers of this book are too far apart."
              - Ambrose Bierce


From fertch at mninter.net  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: fertch at mninter.net (fertch@mninter.net)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:16:46 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Linksys revisted
Message-ID: <200103051819.f25IJbf10555@mail.swdata.com>

> check to see of the module is installed - lsmod.
> if not install tulip and give it a try - insmod tulip
> I have a Linksys card (I don't know which on right off the bat) and I use
> the tulip driver.  


Hey, what timing.  I've been trying to figure out what happened to the module 
on my nic card after the installfest.  Honestly, didn't think about it then.  
On my laptop, IBM Thinkpad, I'm using a 3com 3c574 card.

When I watch bootup, and also do dmesg, I see the card being found and what I 
believe is the module loading.  When I do an lsmod, here's the output for 3c574 
modules:


module         Used by
3c574_cs      0  (unused)
serial_cs     0  (unused)
ds            2  [3c574_cs ds i82365]
pcmcia_core   0  [3c574_cs serial_cs i82365]

When running netconfig, I get an error saying that the card wasn't probed.  The 
only difference between now and prior to the installfest is that Slack 7.1 is 
now on instead of SuSe 7.0.  I'm sure it's a case of something I'm not doing 
right, but what I'm not
sure.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:16:51 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.39.1105989411.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

it sounds like you shouldn't even have to build the boot-floppies
in order to replace the kernel. It sounds like if you follow
the directions at that link, it sounds like its a simpler process.
Though, as somebody else said, I wouldn't try to use a 2.4 kernel
with the potato boot-floppies.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |
crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |
Work: 612 624-6804 or -0378  |

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:10 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.40.1105989430.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Bill



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:14 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.41.1105989434.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

20 seconds.  I can see the terminal adapter trying to make the
connection a couple of times with the lights, but it never stays
connected.

The machine this is on is going to be by firewall/gateway/webserver.
It's a P166 with 32MB's of RAM.  I'm running Slack 7.1 (no X) kernel
2.2.16 on it.  I'm using a 3Com ISDN TA (terminal adapter) on it.  I
have a static IP both internal and external for this machine, but have
not assigned them to this machine.  I've been fighting this prior to my
getting the static IP's with no success.  I haven't tried assigning it
the static IP's since I've received them though either.

I've looked at a couple of websites on this, and they were saying that I
need to compile in synchronous support for the card, but this is an
external device.  Does this still hold true for me to get 128 or higher
connections?  About 99.9% of the information that I've run into is
almost entirely specific to internal ISDN devices, and as far as I can
figure out doesn't apply to my situation.  From what I've been able to
figure out (with Bob's help), is that in my scenario I use it just like
I would an external modem.

I've posted a couple of times previously, but didn't get much feedback.
I didn't have as much info the previous times though either.  Anyone
have some ideas where to go from this point?  One thing I did try that I
forgot to post was I tried this as a standalone machine with no network
settings, and it did the same thing.  NIC card was in when I tried it.



Shawn


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:18 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.42.1105989438.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

a UNIX box serving in this fashion is on Solaris as Sun somehow managed to
license and port the NT Domain controller ports to Solaris. The package is
still available from Sun's website, but it is unsupported and unmaintained.
I've heard it's pretty slick though.

> cistron-radius will authenticate against PAM; so if you can get PAM to work
> against Samba (no clue about this myself), it should work.

That's no biggie. See pam-smb-auth and/or pam-ntdom. The former is stable,
last time I checked the latter was rather developmental. With pam-smb-auth
you will need to create users on your linux box. You might be able to get
around this with pam-ntdom.

Someone might have hacked together an Active Directory PAM module now (or
maybe updated kerberos/ldap clients/modules to handle AD...)

Configuring the above modules isn't a big issue either. Just create a config
file with the name of the domain controller.

The last option I can think of (and a sad one at that...) is that Windows
2000 supports RADIUS. Sometimes the only way to deal with NT is NT. (Well, I
guess there's always a rocket launcher, so there are always two ways to deal
with NT.)

--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055
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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:27 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.43.1105989447.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

R4.x for a long time) it'll get automagicly updated.  Supposedly.  From there
as they make changes to things, more functionality is supposed to come in as
well.

Thanks for the info Liz.  I'd rather not have Wine on the systems if I don't
need to.

Shawn


Liz Burke-Scovill wrote:

> Officially there is no LN client for linux - it's something that's avidly
> awaited, but chances are it isn't going to happen - Domino (aka the server
> side) is the only product supported on linux -- however, if you go to
> notes.net, you'll find a number of people use Notes via wine, etc...on
> linux. Actually another friend of mine had some pretty good successes with
> wine and LN R5 I think.
>
> You're right about the webclient - mainly because it's really with R5 that
> developers are starting to think of notes db's as web-ready...if the db is
> designed right then you can have as much functionality with the webclient
> as you can with the desktop client.
>
> Liz Burke-Scovill


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:51 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.44.1105989471.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

ip addresses are the local ip range of the LAN while the second is the
generic outgoing?  The document I was referencing was showing a
different internal IP address with /24 at the end.  I was assuming that
the /24 was the highest number in the last octet.

I can connect and browse the web with the machine that is connected to
the web, but I can't seem to connect any other machine to the web.  I
can ping the gateway machine and the ip of the gateway is in all
machines as well.  I'm not running DNS, but I do have the machines
listed in my /etc/hosts file.


Anything I'm overlooking or misconfiguring?

Shawn





From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:54 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.45.1105989474.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

By default, Pine expects each email *folder* to have its own file.
It may be that mh gives each message its own file, or some other
structure. I don't know. 
 
Each "folder" file can contain many messages  -- my folder for the TCLUG
list is ~/mail/tclug, and has over 6000 individual messages.

> understand that Procmail does have the ability to do this but their is a
> deficiency in updating some counters or something.  I did not read the
> directions real closely, only to learn that there is a program called
> rcvstore from nmh that people send their mail through to get properly
> processed.  

       Rcvstore  incorporates  a  message from the standard input
       into an nmh folder.  This command  is  typically  used  in
       conjunction  with  mail  filtering programs such as slocal
       and procmail, to filter your mail into different  folders.

> This is the first time I have set up my e-mail on my Linux machine using
> this process.  I the past I have used Netscape and kmail.  
> 

If mail is coming into your linux box, it gets written to
/var/spool/mail/<userid>. This appears to Pine as the default INBOX.
When you use pine to read mail, you can save messages into folders, which
are usually created in ~/mail/. Adding messages to an existing folder just
appends to the corresponding file. Individual messages are distinguished
by the "From" line. 
  
You can set up procmail to automatically take all messages and dump them
directly into your various mail folders based on the Subject line, or on
any of many other characteristics. 

> My question is this, how do I get the e-mail formatted so Pine can read it
> correctly.  

So are you trying to get access to the kmail and Netscape saved messages
(which may be in a different format than pine expects) using pine?

Andy

> John Miller


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:17:54 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.46.1105989474.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

By default, Pine expects each email *folder* to have its own file.
It may be that mh gives each message its own file, or some other
structure. I don't know. 
 
Each "folder" file can contain many messages  -- my folder for the TCLUG
list is ~/mail/tclug, and has over 6000 individual messages.

> understand that Procmail does have the ability to do this but their is a
> deficiency in updating some counters or something.  I did not read the
> directions real closely, only to learn that there is a program called
> rcvstore from nmh that people send their mail through to get properly
> processed.  

       Rcvstore  incorporates  a  message from the standard input
       into an nmh folder.  This command  is  typically  used  in
       conjunction  with  mail  filtering programs such as slocal
       and procmail, to filter your mail into different  folders.

> This is the first time I have set up my e-mail on my Linux machine using
> this process.  I the past I have used Netscape and kmail.  
> 

If mail is coming into your linux box, it gets written to
/var/spool/mail/<userid>. This appears to Pine as the default INBOX.
When you use pine to read mail, you can save messages into folders, which
are usually created in ~/mail/. Adding messages to an existing folder just
appends to the corresponding file. Individual messages are distinguished
by the "From" line. 
  
You can set up procmail to automatically take all messages and dump them
directly into your various mail folders based on the Subject line, or on
any of many other characteristics. 

> My question is this, how do I get the e-mail formatted so Pine can read it
> correctly.  

So are you trying to get access to the kmail and Netscape saved messages
(which may be in a different format than pine expects) using pine?

Andy

> John Miller

_______________________________________________
tclug-list mailing list
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:18:36 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.47.1105989516.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

lots more header crap....

If it doesn't, try a procmail rule like:
:0:
* ^TOtclug
|cat >> /home/user/mail/tclug

this should create a "proper" mbox folder. first thing to do is to figure
out what part of your mail setup is being stupid. :)

| Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977 |
| http://www.ringworld.org  | Work: 763.428.9119 |
| http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS:  612.306.6055 |
|           When in danger, or in doubt,         |
|        run in circles,  scream and shout!      |


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:18:37 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.48.1105989517.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

lots more header crap....

If it doesn't, try a procmail rule like:
:0:
* ^TOtclug
|cat >> /home/user/mail/tclug

this should create a "proper" mbox folder. first thing to do is to figure
out what part of your mail setup is being stupid. :)

| Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977 |
| http://www.ringworld.org  | Work: 763.428.9119 |
| http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS:  612.306.6055 |
|           When in danger, or in doubt,         |
|        run in circles,  scream and shout!      |

_______________________________________________
tclug-list mailing list
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:19:24 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.49.1105989563.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

is that the CIS ID? If not how do I get the CIS ID? I thought CIS IDs where 
like xxxxxx,xxx or something like that.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:19:33 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.50.1105989573.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:19:53 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.51.1105989593.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

this place. The food is par, nothing to write home about.

--
Jamie Seeman
Secure Computing - Test Engineer
651.628.5420

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck...

dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu wrote:

> > Is any of that food? (:
> >
> > -Yaron
>
> No, a lambic is a fruit-based beer, IIRC.  The interesting thing about them
> (other than them being made from fruit) is they're brewed in open-air casks
> and they're fermented with spores from some weird plant.  So, they build
> the breweries in the middle of fields where they grow the plant.  I could
> be completely confusing a lambic with something else altogether, however :)
>
> Can anyone confirm that what I'm saying is true?
>
> Gabe
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gabe Turner                                    |           X-President,
> UNIX Systems Administrator,                    | Assoc. for Computing Machinery
> U of M Supercomputing Institute for            |    University of Minnesohta
> Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation    |       dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu
>
> "Ooo-eeee-Ooooo, Killer Tofu!"  - The Beats "Killer Tofu"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:19:55 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.52.1105989595.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

those errors. 

--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:00 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.53.1105989600.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"Bozich said several hundred ISPs which resell Qwest's DSL service to their
customers won't be affected by the Microsoft deal." 

So, in the case of ISPs like Real-Time, VISI, Sound, etc, they don't
actually resell the DSL line, just the access.  Will those of us who pay
Qwest for our physical DSL line and a non-Qwest ISP for our access be
screwed by this?  Will they put Microsoft in direct control of the
cloud, or just dealing out the IP addresses?

Gabe
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gabe Turner				       |  	   X-President,
UNIX Systems Administrator,		       | Assoc. for Computing Machinery
U of M Supercomputing Institute for	       |    University of Minnesohta
Digital Simulation and Advanced Computation    |       dopp@acm.cs.umn.edu

"Get out of my trash!  I'm telling you for the last time!  A man works
 hard for his filth, just to have vagrants steal it.
 It's a cryin' shame."
			- George Liquor in "The Boy Who Cried Rat!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:13 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.54.1105989613.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

[7 April] The first pre-release version of XFree86 4.0.3 is now available in
my repository [at http://people.debian.org/~branden/woody/]

-- 
| Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977 |
| http://www.ringworld.org  | Work: 763.428.9119 |
| http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS:  612.306.6055 |
|   This message is protected by double ROT13    | 
|   encryption. Any attempt to circumvent the    |
|   digital protection is banned by the DMCA.    |
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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:24 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.55.1105989623.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

administrator=root

and group.map looks like:
domain users:domuser

You may need to do it like
domain\ users:domuser
I'm not exactly sure anymore, read the docs. 

To use the maps, under [Global] in smb.conf:
username map = /etc/samba/username.map
group map = /etc/samba/group.map

If you're samba server is part of the NT domain you shouldn't have to worry
about the maps too much. I still have to get around to working with 2.2
however, so things may be different.

--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055

From johny at rich.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: johny at rich.com (Johny)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:28 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Make Money Quick
Message-ID: <200105030002.f4302Wk14140@sprite.real-time.com>

Do you want to make money fast and legal? Well it is easy!
infact thousands of people are trying it right now as we speak! All you have to do is <br><br>
     Just <a href=http://www.adultfriendfinder.com/go/p39843c>Click Here</a> and sign up!<br><br>
Sincerly<br>
Your Friend Johny


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.56.1105989632.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:20:55 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.57.1105989655.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Customers can look at the source code of Windows, tell Microsoft about bugs
and suggest improvements, thus saving the firm a lot of money-but they still
have to pay for the next version. 

Which is a good thing. It's bad enough that we have Windows 95 with 4
different service packs, Windows NT4 with 6 different service packs, Windows
98 and 98SE, and Windows Me. Imagine if anyone could roll their own
Windows...

Then again, tech support would have Mac as the only supported platform, so
maybe it isn't so bad after all. :)

--
Andy Zbikowski, Sys Admin   | (WEB) http://www.ltiflex.com
LTI Flexible Products, Inc. | (PH)  763-428-9119 (EX) 132
21801 Industrial Blvd       | (FX)  763-428-9126
Rogers, MN  55374           | (PCS) 612-306-6055

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:06 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.58.1105989666.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

>>> mend0070@tc.umn.edu 05/16/01 01:17PM >>>
...I'm so busy trying to bust out of the intermittent connection...



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:45 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.59.1105989705.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

overclock (at least until you figure out what the problem is.)

| Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977 |
| http://www.ringworld.org  | Work: 763.428.9119 |
| http://www.itouthouse.com | PCS:  612.306.6055 |
|   His power apparently lies in his ability to  |
|           choose incompetent enemies.          |
|    - Crow T. Robot, MST3K, "Prince of Space"   |




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:21:51 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.60.1105989711.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

acceptance of industry standards does indeed make standards-based software 
development much easier.

And if a truly open version of Hailstorm were developed, I would not 
hesitate to jump on the bandwagon when the time came. Whatever the 
license, as long as it is free-as-in-speech, I will be reasonably happy 
with it.

My concern is that there will probably be many developers who will not 
stop to consider the ramifications of working with MS Hailstorm, simply 
because it looks to be the defacto "standard", when it might be better to 
either 1) put up with the inconvenience of not having such a framework, or 
2) develop for ourselves an open framework similar to Hailstorm, but 
without the licensing, copyright, and IP issues.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I hope the articles were informative.

Dave

On Thursday 31 May 2001 15:48, thus spake Joshua Jore:
> Perhaps I should have clarified myself. I like what hailstorm is doing
> for pushing SOAP and RPC in general into the teeming masses of devices.
> As a corporate developer, this sort of thing just makes my life so much
> easier. It's not as if I haven't had other ways to get stuff done this
> whole time, this just happens to be a new way. So for all that, it's
> nifty stuff.
>
> The other bit, and this is a biggie, is the control this gives to MS
> over the whole protocol. Since MS holds all the authentication and
> related data there's a huge gaping wide chasm between the raw MS
> implementation and MS-less hailstorm. I'm likely to check out Sun's JXTA
> since I've actually read more stuff on that and it seems less likely to
> be an analogue to selling my soul to MS's data centers.
>
> Essentially, I like the idea of a Megaco-less Hailstorm. I won't,
> however, be using Hailstorm anytime soon given it's current
> dependancies. I just think the issue is more complex than Hailstorm ==
> Microsoft.Bad(). Unless I'm missing something I'd probably really like a
> GNU (or even better, BSD) licensed Hailstorm.
>
> Josh Jore
>
> ___SIG___
>
-- 
"Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit. (No 
fortification is such that it cannot be subdued with money."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 B.C.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:00 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.61.1105989720.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

to chuck out old discs than to go through the hassle of RW.  A big factor
in that conclusion, however, is the need for transportability.  Some
readers have a hard time with RW discs.  You probably know your own
hardware; I didn't always know where it would have to be read.

But I still think the media costs (unless they've dropped) were too high
per performance for RW.

-- 
"To misattribute a quote is unforgivable." --Anonymous


From jspinti at dart.dartdist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: jspinti at dart.dartdist.com (jspinti@dart.dartdist.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:02 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] RE:PNY CD-Rs
Message-ID: <10106041730.AA18108@dart.dartdist.com>

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:22:40 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.62.1105989760.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

run that binary. It's not ok if you distribute the binary without giving the
recipient the sources for the binary.

florin
-- 

"you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect"

41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6  03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:07 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.63.1105989787.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

alias eth0 ne io=0x240
alias eth1 ne io=0x340

florin

-- 

"you have moved your mouse, please reboot to make this change take effect"

41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6  03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:16 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.64.1105989796.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

takes the action you specified. Going by that, web traffic from
192.168.1.1 should never see the second rule.

After adding this rules, everything seemed to be working. I could access
the web from the proxy server (with and without going through squid) and
from my desktop. Yay I thought. Then I stopped squid, and tried pulling up
a web page, and it still worked, so obviously my web traffic didn't get
redirected to squid.

So perhaps I was having a delusional moment instead of a genuis moment
while sitting in traffic last night. Can anyone see why this wouldn't
work? Can you see how it would work?

Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977
http://www.ringworld.org  | PCS:  612.306.6055
They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond.
If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a
bad name for their new services.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:36 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.65.1105989816.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

/sbin/init
/etc/init
/bin/sh
/etc/sh

And you guys should be using /bin/sh instead of hardcoding /bin/bash. What
if you wanted to switch the Korn or c shell? Obviously some scripts use
shell specific features but that's not most stuff - especially the boot
loader. /bin/sh is supposed to be a symlink the the shell of your choice.

Josh

On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Daniel Taylor wrote:

> Oh yeah, immediate workaround:
> LILO: linux init=/sbin/init
>
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 ming@mongo.evil-overlords.com wrote:
>
> > Here is my lilo.conf
> >
> > # LILO configuration file
> > # generated by 'liloconfig'
> > #
> > # Start LILO global section
> > append="init=/dev/sda1"
> > boot = /dev/sda
> > #compact        # faster, but won't work on all systems.
> > # delay = 5
> > vga = normal    # force sane state
> > # ramdisk = 0     # paranoia setting
> > # End LILO global section
> > # Linux bootable partition config begins
> > image = /vmlinuz
> >   root = /dev/sda1
> >   label = Linux
> >   read-only # Non-UMSDOS filesystems should be mounted read-only for checking
> > # Linux bootable partition config ends
> >
> >
> > >It would be helpfull if you posted your lilo.conf also.
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >Ming the merciless wrote:
> > >>
> > >> OK not really sure what I am missing here but I compile a kernel, 2.2.18,
> > >> and I keep getting kernel panics saying
> > >>
> > >> Kernel Panic: No init found. Try passing init= option to kernel.
> > >>
> > >> I take it this is a line I should add to lilo.conf but not sure what option
> > >> its talking about. Any info would be appreciated.
> > >>
> > >> Jason
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> tclug-list mailing list
> > >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > >> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >tclug-list mailing list
> > >tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > >https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:23:57 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.66.1105989837.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

It appears that a RoadRunner DHCP lease is good for about 2-3 days at a
time, and it seems to be renewed automatically to the same IP unless you
change to a different NIC.  I have been swapping between an NT gateway and a
Linux gateway several times in the last 2-3 weeks, and they always come back
to the same IP that they had based on the NIC.  The delta has been 1-2 days
on the switch.  I have been using the Linux gateway exclusively for the last
6 days, and checking the NT event log shows that it didn't even try to renew
the lease for 2 days after being disconnected.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:24:00 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.67.1105989840.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Xserver.

Create two configs:
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4-High
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4-Low
ln -s /etc/X11/XF86Config-4-High /etc/X11/XF86Config-4

Then just find the line in your xdm configs that is specifing what
displays xdm is managing.

/usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86 -xf86config /etc/X11/XF86Config-4-High vt7
/usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86 -xf86config /etc/X11/XF86Config-4-Low vt8

I don't have xdm installed, but with GDM all you would do is edit the
[servers] section to look like this:

[servers]
0=/usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86 -xf86config /etc/X11/XF86Config-4-High vt7
1=/usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86 -xf86config /etc/X11/XF86Config-4-Low vt8

If both config files work, it should work just fine. Seems to me like
you're doing alot of extra work. XDM should share a common config, even at
different resoultions. If something needs to be specific to a display,
it's denoted with that display's number.

Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977
http://www.ringworld.org  | PCS:  612.306.6055
They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond.
If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a
bad name for their new services.



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:24:05 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.68.1105989845.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Nate


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:24:09 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.69.1105989849.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"Office XP/Outlook 2002 gets its first virus
And speaking of viruses, Outlook 2002 is looking a little pale this morning.
It seems that an ActiveX control that ships with the new Office XP PIM and
email application could enable a hacker to gain control of the user's
system, a painfully familiar problem these days. The ActiveX control, called
the Microsoft Outlook View Control, displays the Outlook inbox, so it's sort
of central to the whole affair. The bug was first discovered by security
researcher Georgi Guninski. Microsoft says it will prepare a patch as soon
as possible, though Guninski says he already has one: "Uninstall Office XP
and Windows." Funny guy."



James Spinti
jspinti at dartdist.com
952-368-3278 x396
fax 952-368-3255


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:24:17 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.70.1105989857.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

1 print port and a 4 port 10baseT hub.

HP's are nice but way too expensive. SoHo might be ok, but never used one.
Linksys might make one, but I dunno.

Andrew S. Zbikowski       | Home: 763.591.0977
http://www.ringworld.org  | PCS:  612.306.6055
They must not get baseball sized hail in Redmond.
If they did MS would have realized HailStorm is a
bad name for their new services.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:24:31 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.71.1105989871.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

(#35)
(User #79060 Info)
 http://www.reric.net
I, and many of my co-workers, had our home DSL routers (Cisco 675s) lock up
today as this worm scanned them.
There is common belief that disabling the web interface will prevent this.
It's not true; mine's been disabled every since this was first reported a
year ago and I still got hit.  The problem is that "set web disable"
prevents the web server from fiddling the router config, but doesn't
actually stop the server from parsing input from port 80, which is what
locks up the box. An improved workaround is to disable the web-admin
interface and change its port number with "set web port 53496" (replace with
some random port number).  At least that'll stop it for the near term. Long
term you need to get updated firmware, but of course Cisco won't distribute
firmware directly to customers, even though they have public announcements
of the existence of bugs and bugfixes.  To actually get the firmware you
have to get it from your DSL line provider (Qwest, in my case), and Qwest
couldn't care less about security with respect to home users, so they've
never bothered to offer fixed versions of CBOS.
--
Please don't feed the engineers.

Hope that helps...

James Spinti
jspinti at dartdist.com
952-368-3278 x396
fax 952-368-3255

|-----Original Message-----
|From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org
|[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Timothy Wilson
|Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:58 PM
|To: James Spinti
|Cc: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
|Subject: RE: [TCLUG] Lots of denied packets. Port 80
|
|
|On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, James Spinti wrote:
|
|> According to the buzz on /., that won't help.  You have to
|upgrade the CBOS.
|> Otherwise you have to power cycle it every time it gets hit...
|
|Anyone got a link for downloading the latest and greatest CBOS?
|
|-Tim
|
|--
|Tim Wilson      |   Visit Sibley online:   | Check out:
|Henry Sibley HS |  http://www.isd197.org   | http://www.zope.org
|W. St. Paul, MN |                          | http://slashdot.org
|wilson@visi.com |  <dtml-var pithy_quote>  | http://linux.com
|
|_______________________________________________
|tclug-list mailing list
|tclug-list@mn-linux.org
|https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
|


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:24:51 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.72.1105989891.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

administer. But do you think it could handle large volumes of traffic
without killing the machine? 

It seems that the volume of processes created would be bad. Maybe
there is some solution to run mailman as a persistant process?

We've got about 10,000 total users, with our largest list having half
that number (the main MySQL General Discussion list). All this is
running on a P-III 500mhz with 512mb RAM.

I'm wondering if mailman could handle this load on our current
hardware, and what room we'd have for future growth.

Maybe this question would be better sent to the mailman lists, but it
seems that you probably have some pretty good experience with it. :)


Regards,

    Matt

-- 
For technical support contracts, visit https://order.mysql.com/
   __  ___     ___ ____  __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /    Mr. Matt Wagner <mwagner@mysql.com>
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, Herr Direktor
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Hopkins, Minnesota  USA
       <___/   www.mysql.com


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:25:11 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.73.1105989911.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

> (david moore with help from a bunch of elves)
> http://www.caida.org/analysis/security/code-red/aug1-live-hosts.gif
> 
> was exponential till about an hour ago,
> we're not sure if leveling off is due to our monitor
> load or an actual peak in the data.
> 
> log-scale version
> http://www.caida.org/analysis/security/code-red/aug1-live-hosts-log.gif 
> 
> will put on main caida home page later today
> and update every minute (you'll have to hit reload,
> and you won't actually notice changes at a minute granularity 
> so please no per-minute cron jobs to reload :) )
> 
> note the corresponding graph for 19-20 july:
> http://www.caida.org/analysis/security/code-red/gifs/cumulative-ts.log.gif
> 
> no per AS stats for this outbreak yet,
> also under construction.
> 

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:25:19 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.74.1105989919.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

http://www.mn-linux.org/members/tanner/

Jeff

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Troy D. Taylor wrote:

> I am having problems with my dsl c675 being brought down almost hourly.
> 
> I really need to patch this sucker with the lastest CBOS.
> 
> Can anyone send me the nsrouter.c675.2.4.1.bin?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Troy D. Taylor
> ttaylor@jcllc.com
> or
> troy@doesconsulting.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:25:29 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.75.1105989929.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:25:29 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.76.1105989929.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

--- www.kame.net ping6 statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

mike@hardrock:~$ traceroute6 www.kame.net
traceroute6 to kame220.kame.net (2001:200:0:4819:280:adff:fe71:81fc) from
3ffe:b80:139:1:2a0:24ff:fe35:b9f8, 30 hops max, 16 byte packets
 1  3ffe:b80:139:1::1 (3ffe:b80:139:1::1)  0.807 ms !H  0.66 ms !H  0.587
ms !H

IPv6 forwarding appears to be enabled:

[mike@3po][~]$ cat /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/{all,eth0,lo}/forwarding 
1
1
1

The eth0 interfaces on both my router and my client box have two inet6
addresses, one link-local (/10 with ff80 prefix) and the other global
(/64).

The only thing I can really figure out is that I may be missing site-local
addresses (fec0 prefix) on my interfaces.  At any rate, this IPv6 stuff is
new to me, but fortunately it's slowly starting to make sense..

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   All your base are belong 
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   to us. 
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)                             
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ]

--WE2r2p2RZI3Td=.W
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE7baM905OjzVUnj0URAirKAJ9+mE94s6OJGUpCdAbQvjaZJFd8kQCg8+R0
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=QD3F
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--WE2r2p2RZI3Td=.W--


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:25:38 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.77.1105989938.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

kilowatt hour of returned energy than any other power source in place today, 
including solar. (Photovoltags are very expensive and toxic to produce). 
OK I am done. Forgive me if this off-topic has severely hampered your ability 
to stay cool or sane.
That Is All!
-Kevin Hinze

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:26:15 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.78.1105989975.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

make it in court.. 'course, if you wanna try it, we'd all be glad to see
if someone can actually pull it off.  :)

Anyways, if they're getting flooded, it's not exactly their fault..

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:26:23 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.79.1105989983.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

a few other things TBD.

And let me go on record as saying.
OpenOffice 631,632,633,633b all suck.on all platforms.One caveat.
I had a small amount of luck with a cumine 733 and 512M ram.
 
that is my opinion

-- 
    SpencerUnderground
||mailto:spencer@sihope.com||
"I have no doubt that it is part of the destiny of the human race in its
gradual development to leave off the eating of animals, as surely as the 
savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact 
with the more  civilized." Henry David Thoreau
 

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:26:31 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.80.1105989991.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

$189.

Tom Veldhouse
veldy@veldy.net

>
> Gee! At the beginning of the week they were $107 for Athlon 1.33 and $140
for
> 1.4 .
>
> WOW!
>
> florin
>



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:04 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.81.1105990024.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Bawls Guarana

Ingredients: carbonated water, corn syrup, citric acid, natural guarana
flavor, sodium benzoate (as a preservative), caffeine, artificial flavors
and caramel color.

Nutrition Facts: Serving Size: 12 fl. oz. Servings per Container: 1 Amount
per serving: Calories: 120 Total Fat: 0g Sodium: 35mg Protein: 0g Total
Carbohydrates: 32g Sugars: 32g

Mark Browne

----- Original Message -----
From: "B T" <tmechanic@mn.mediaone.net>
To: <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Bawls


> How much sugar does it have?
> _______________________________________________
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:09 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.82.1105990029.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

the same as installing a dual-boot Win2K / Linux system. That is, there
are some tricks re: NT issues, but it works fine.

In other news, I can tell you for a fact that XP will install and boot its
kernel inside a Vmware machine running under Linux.. but it b0rks when it
goes into hardware setup, so it will not run. I hope that we have a Win2k
/ XP enabled version of Vmware coming soon.. that is one 'hardware
environment' that never really changes ;)


                           -.bill.layer.-
                          
-.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.-

           -.frogtown.-     -.minnesota.-      -.u.s.a.-

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:11 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.83.1105990031.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

resources.

Have you ever played with WINE?


                           -.bill.layer.-
                          
-.those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking.-

           -.frogtown.-     -.minnesota.-      -.u.s.a.-

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:14 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.84.1105990034.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"Professional". The pricing for home is $10 more than WinME(I forget what it
costs because I never bought it), XP Pro is $199 for the upgrade and $299
for the full version. Also both require the online activation (or a
phonecall to M$, certainly in an effort to move geeks and developers to
linux). There are no server versions, instead there is something called
".NET server, .NET Advanced Server" and not sure about datacenter, and those
are due out in Q2 2002.

It will be interesting to see what the numbers will be on sales, as everyone
I seem to talk to has no plans to upgrade to it in their corp network.
(neither does the company I work for) Also, anyone heard any numbers on
Office XP? Sales figures seems remarkably quiet on that subject so far...

Doug


Mike Hicks <hick0088@tc.umn.edu> writes:

> Since Win XP was brought up, I was reminded of these questions.
>
> What are the different variants of Win XP?  I've heard that there's a
> `Home' edition that will be sold for about $10 more than WinMe is
> currently listed for, and there'll be a `Professional' edition geared
> toward office desktops as a replacement for Win2k Pro.  I'm sure there's
> at least two server variants too..
>
> What's different about all of them?

I read an artle in last month's PC Magazine about XP and amoung other
things,
the home version will not have multi-processor support and the pro version
will not require the activation keys.



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:16 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.85.1105990036.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Sometimes a lot of quick effort is easier than a little longterm effort...
And a little more quick effort is always better than a lot of longterm effort...

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:30 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.86.1105990050.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

7160, 7190, 8890

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:31 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.87.1105990051.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

you have to use the GSM software for Linux to create a software modem
which you can then issue AT commands to.

Much easier to buy a phone with an Infrared modem.  :)

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:40 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.88.1105990060.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

datebook, todo list, and memopad. It does lack in initial pilot setup
however. (Creating the user profile on the palm.) You'll either have to do
this step with the pilot-link tools (command line, read the manual) or
from the Mac/Windows Palm desktop. Gnome-Pilot will also handle this. KDE
has kpilot, but I am unsure of what it can do.

I use jpilot for editing my address book on my desktop. That's about all I
really need (entering many addresses on the palm can be tedious...).
Exerything else (install apps, backups, etc.) I do from the command line
(pilot-xfer -p /dev/visor -i whatever.prc to install something pilot-xfer
-p /dev/visor -b to backup)

Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org
"We can learn much more from wise words, little
from wisecracks and less from wise guys."
--William Arthur Ward


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:27:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.89.1105990062.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

CBOS 2.2, and the others are for upgrading from CBOS 2.3 and above.

-- 
				- Jay

above.  Functionally they 
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 02:07:00PM -0500, Bill Layer wrote:
> 
> I got the ultra-fantastic DSL Updater from qwest.com today, figured I'd 
> bump my modem up to CBOS 2.4.3. It came as a Windows .exe file, which I 
> unpacked, installed etc. A subdir of the DSL Installer dir is 'CBOS Images' 
> and contains the following image files:
> 
> c675.2.4.3.bin
> c678cap.2.4.3.bin
> c678dmt.full.2.4.3.bin
> nsrouter.c675.2.4.3.bin
> nsrouter.c678cap.2.4.3.bin
> nsrouter.c678dmt.full.2.4.3.bin
> 
> The 'nsrouter' version of each image is about 42 bytes smaller than the 
> 'plain' version of the image. Does anyone know what the functional 
> difference is between the nsrouter & plain versions? The auto-upgrade 
> software picked the c675.2.4.3.bin image for my modem, but in the past, I 
> have used the nsrouter.c675.2.X.X.bin images and they seemed to be fine... 
> Any ideas on this?
> 
> Anyone needing the images, you can get them here: 
> http://frogtown.dynu.com/UserX/cbos
> 
> Hi, How are you? I send you this email in order to ask you about CBOS image 
> filenames.
> 
> Billy Boy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:28:17 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.90.1105990097.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Pulling up the web page reveals the right html. If not the webserver
itself perhaps the content owner fubared their machine.

Joshua Jore
Minneapolis Ward 3, precinct 10

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 16:54:46 -0500
From: jjore@imation.com
To: josh@greentechnologist.org
Subject: Please tell me I'm wrong:  microsoft.com infected

----- Forwarded by Joshua b. Jore/IT/Imation on 09/19/01 05:00 PM -----


"Steve Cody" <security@gulbrandsen.com>
09/19/01 02:37 PM


        To:     <incidents@securityfocus.com>
        cc:
        Subject:        Please tell me I'm wrong:  microsoft.com infected


I just went to http://www.microsoft.com/frontpage, and my Symantec
Norton Antivirus popped up and denied access to readme.eml.

I could not view the source of the loaded page, so I can't verify that
it is definitely infected.

Steve


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is provided by the SecurityFocus ARIS analyzer service.
For more information on this free incident handling, management
and tracking system please see: http://aris.securityfocus.com





From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:28:27 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.91.1105990107.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

that the SSL cert of the remote POP/IMAP server came from one of the
recognized CA's, and puts up an annoying popup if it isn't. Anyone know
how to either install another CA, or just tell OE to accept the cert? Of
course, they can't make it easy like in Mozilla/IE (just click accept it
permanently.. heh)..

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:28:31 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.92.1105990111.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:28:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.93.1105990112.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>


Paul



=====
Paul Rech
pauljrech@acm.org pauljrech@yahoo.com
651-430-9935 hm 651-246-6823 cell

"The instructions said "Win95 or better required". So I installed Linux"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:29:26 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.94.1105990166.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

search.


-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>         | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:29:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.95.1105990172.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

   "Lisp mode.  Sets the 'lisp' and 'showmatch' options on."

which is not very helpful, but the link to 

http://www.vim.org/html/options.html#'lisp'

has more information.

> Is there also an 
> interpreter, or do I need to get one?

IIRC, you are using Slackware 7.1.  I think there was a Lisp interpreter
included with it.  There is one in Slack 8.0.
 
Glenn McDavid
mailto:gmcdavid@winternet.com
http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:29:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.96.1105990183.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

revolution (I did).

-Brian



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:29:57 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.97.1105990197.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

[jim@host210 jim]$ su
Password:
[root@host210 jim]# ps -ef
  PID TTY STAT  TIME COMMAND
  545   1 S    0:00 login -- root
  607   2 S    0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty2 HOME=/ TERM=linux BOOT_IMAGE=linux
AUTOBOOT=YES PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/
  608   3 S    0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty3 HOME=/ TERM=linux BOOT_IMAGE=linux
AUTOBOOT=YES PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/
  609   4 S    0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty4 HOME=/ TERM=linux BOOT_IMAGE=linux
AUTOBOOT=YES PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/
  610   5 S    0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty5 HOME=/ TERM=linux BOOT_IMAGE=linux
AUTOBOOT=YES PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/
  611   6 S    0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty6 HOME=/ TERM=linux BOOT_IMAGE=linux
AUTOBOOT=YES PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/

Wierd!  When I ran the following command ( ps -aux ) the first time, I
noticed the commands referenced above (FTP and PING) even after rebooting
the machine twice.

[root@host210 jim]# ps -aux
USER       PID %CPU %MEM  SIZE   RSS TTY STAT START   TIME COMMAND
nobody     497  0.1  3.2 43724  8504  ?  S   02:07   0:01 httpd -DSSL
nobody     498  0.0  2.7 42528  7000  ?  S   02:07   0:00 httpd -DSSL
nobody     499  0.1  3.4 44192  8900  ?  S   02:07   0:01 httpd -DSSL
nobody     500  0.2  3.2 43720  8500  ?  S   02:07   0:03 httpd -DSSL
nobody     501  0.0  2.7 42528  7000  ?  S   02:07   0:00 httpd -DSSL
nobody     502  0.0  3.2 43596  8332  ?  S   02:07   0:01 httpd -DSSL
nobody     503  0.1  3.5 44528  9248  ?  S   02:07   0:01 httpd -DSSL
nobody     504  0.0  2.7 42528  6996  ?  S   02:07   0:00 httpd -DSSL
nobody     789  0.0  2.7 42528  6992  ?  S   02:20   0:00 httpd -DSSL
root         1  0.2  0.1  1104   460  ?  S   02:06   0:03 init [3]
root         3  0.0  0.0     0     0  ?  SW  02:06   0:00 (kupdate)
root         4  0.0  0.0     0     0  ?  SW  02:06   0:00 (kpiod)
root         6  0.0  0.0     0     0  ?  SW< 02:06   0:00 (mdrecoveryd)
root       342  0.0  0.2  1304   600  ?  S   02:06   0:00 crond
root       358  0.0  0.1  1120   480  ?  S   02:06   0:00 inetd
root       374  0.0  0.5  2272  1480  ?  S   02:07   0:00 named
root       435  0.6  2.6 42412  6788  ?  S   02:07   0:07 httpd -DSSL
root       545  0.0  0.4  2196  1148   1 S   02:08   0:00 login -- root
root       607  0.0  0.1  1076   384   2 S   02:08   0:00 /sbin/mingetty
tty2
root       608  0.0  0.1  1076   384   3 S   02:08   0:00 /sbin/mingetty
tty3
root       609  0.0  0.1  1076   384   4 S   02:08   0:00 /sbin/mingetty
tty4
root       610  0.0  0.1  1076   384   5 S   02:08   0:00 /sbin/mingetty
tty5
root       611  0.0  0.1  1076   384   6 S   02:08   0:00 /sbin/mingetty
tty6
[root@host210 jim]#

---

I started looking at recently modified files (this is the key to tracking
this problem down, I believe) and noticed the following few files.

---

[root@host210 /etc]# more mtab
/dev/hda8 / ext2 rw 0 0
none /proc proc rw 0 0
/dev/hda1 /boot ext2 rw 0 0
/dev/hda6 /home ext2 rw 0 0
/dev/hda5 /usr ext2 rw 0 0
/dev/hda7 /var ext2 rw 0 0
/dev/hdb1 /www ext2 rw 0 0
none /dev/pts devpts rw,gid=5,mode=620 0 0      *** Is this line weird?

[root@host210 /etc]# more ftpaccess
#class   all   real,guest,anonymous  *

email root@localhost

loginfails 5

readme  README*    login
readme  README*    cwd=*

message /welcome.msg            login
message .message                cwd=*

compress        yes     real
tar             yes     real
chmod           no      guest,anonymous
delete          no      guest,anonymous
overwrite       no      guest,anonymous
rename          no      guest,anonymous

log transfers   real,anonymous  inbound,outbound

shutdown /etc/shutmsg

passwd-check rfc822 warn
tar             no      guest,anonymous
compress        no      guest,anonymous
chmod           yes     real
delete          yes     real
overwrite       yes     real
rename          yes     real

---

When I found the following:

/usr/bin/sourcemask

on the last line of my /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit I did a google search for it and
found two (non-english) references at google.com.  Translated, from French,
the first is:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.up.univ-mrs.f
r/wcri/d_serv/d_reseau/d_cert/certmsgSTAT013&prev=/search%3Fq%3D/usr/bin/sou
rcemask%26hl%3Den

It's related to a known exploit in RedHat 6.1.  Obviously, I'm reinstalling
this machine tonight (with RedHat 7.2 - beta, I guess) and installing
Bastille, PortSentry and Logcheck (I guess RedHat 7.2 has a logwatcher app
built-in) before I even connect it to the net!!!

I basically backed up /etc and /home (including an "installs" directory) to
my Winders box.  Hopefully this helps quite a bit.

Could be a long night...

Jim "BleedPurpleGuy" Herrick


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:30:08 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.98.1105990208.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

 A raw disk directly accesses an existing local disk or partition. You can 
use raw disks if you want Workstation to run one or more guest operating 
systems from existing disk partitions. Raw disks may be set up on both IDE 
and SCSI devices. At this time, however, booting from an operating system 
already set up on an existing SCSI disk or partition is experimental.

The most common use of a raw disk is for converting a dual-boot or 
multiple-boot machine so one or more of the existing operating systems can be 
run inside a virtual machine.

Caution: If you run an operating system natively on the host computer, the 
switch to running it inside a virtual machine is like pulling the hard drive 
out of one computer and installing it in a second computer with a different 
motherboard and other hardware. You need to prepare carefully for such a 
switch. The specific steps you need to take depend on the operating system 
you want to use inside the virtual machine. For details, see Configuring a 
Dual-Boot Computer for Use with a Virtual Machine.

You can also create a new virtual machine using a raw disk. For details, see 
Installing an Operating System onto a Raw Partition from a Virtual Machine. 
In most cases, however, it is better to use a virtual disk.

Raw disk configurations are recommended only for expert users.



-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://www.ringworld.org
"We can learn much more from wise words, little
from wisecracks and less from wise guys."
--William Arthur Ward

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:30:09 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.99.1105990209.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Some older instalations require /usr to be on / for access during boot but I don't think any current dist requires this.

I managed to install Slack 3.? on my 386-25 with a 20MB HD from 4.25" floppies.  It used to route my ppp connection and print serve.
-- 
Marc A. Ohmann
Digital Solutions, Inc
http://ds6.net
marc@ds6.net

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:30:53 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.100.1105990253.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

other, usually both sides.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:31:26 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.101.1105990286.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"Thank you, whatismyip is now in my favorites. It is
also fun to sit at someones computer ask them "do you
know what your ip is?". Then if you are using IE type
whatismyip hit control enter which adds the www and the
com and goes to the website. After their initial
suprise tell them that it works with any question then
walk away"

Evil; I love it!
Mark Browne

----- Original Message -----
From: <dan@williamsongraphics.com>
To: <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: [TCLUG] RE: Apache error logs


> **Note to self: Must memorize IP.  Must memorize IP.
Just go to www.whatismyip.com if you cant remeber your IP address
_______________________________________________
Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
http://www.mn-linux.org
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:31:48 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.102.1105990308.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

part of your problem then this might help.
(don't remember where I got it but it was part of an ipchains script I
got from somewhere)

EXTDEV=eth1
EXTERNALIP=`ifconfig $EXTDEV | grep "inet addr:" | \
        awk -F: {'print $2'} | cut -d\  -f 1`
if [ -z "${EXTERNALIP}" ]; then
        exit 1
fi

This will get your ip address from ifconfig and then you simply use the
variables in place of manual IP's. 

> What is the proper way to do this?
> 
All policies should be DENY.  Of course if your not that freaky about
security the the OUTPUT chain can usually be set to ACCEPT to make
things easier.  This is usually not a security problem.

> We'll use these numbers as an example of my net config:
> eth0 192.168.1.1   # The LAN obviously.
> eth1 24.32.5.105   # The DHCP assigned WAN IP
> 
I'll try my hand at a simple script that may work for you...

#!/bin/sh

EXTDEV=eth1
EXTIP=`ifconfig $EXTDEV | grep "inet addr:" | \
        awk -F: {'print $2'} | cut -d\  -f 1`
if [ -z "${EXTERNALIP}" ]; then
        exit 1
fi

INTDEV=eth0
INTIP=192.168.1.1

ipchains -F
ipchains -X
ipchains -P forward DENY
ipchains -P input DENY
ipchains -P ouput ACCEPT (this is simpler for now)

ipchains -A input -i $INTDEV -s 192.168.1.0 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j ACCEPT
# This allows input from your LAN

ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.0 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j MASQ
# Masquerade everything going outside


I'm a bit rusty w/ ipchains but I think this will work.
Please correct my if I'm wrong.

sim


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:31:57 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.103.1105990317.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

If this is going to be a secondary drive then you should be fine since
Linux doesn't care and there are free utilities for older version of
windows that can't already handle it.
If this is going to replace your drive then you could probably easily
get around this by formating the drive carefully.
Put the /boot partition first (20MB just for the hell of it) and format
around that.
Windows will reside in the <8GB level (or the <30GB level) and linux can
be installed wherever.

What are your plans?  Replace your primary drive or use it as a big a**
storage drive?

sim

> I have a Asus P5A motherboard (version 1005) with an Award BIOS
> (version
> 4.51PG) and I'd like to put a larger hard-drive in it... maybe one of
> those
> 100GB Western Digital drives.  The question is, how big a HD will it
> support?  I went to the Award website and it said, "...it's impossible
> to
> know how large a disk drive your system can support without actually
> testing
> it...".  Well, that really sux.  Hardware/firmware is soooo stupid
> sometimes.  Can anyone suggest a better solution?
> 

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:32:05 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.104.1105990325.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

were recently an unanounced spectacle. Skywatching is a blast.

There are optical filters and sensors for most every possibility. Motion 
sensors might be better. Measuring dI/dt (change in intensity with time) 
might be a better measurement for separating moving meteors from fixed 
background than direct observation. That's what physicists do, if you can't 
measure something directly, measure it indirectly with lots of fancy math. 

This light pollution web page is neat; 
 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg When 
we blotted out the night sky we lost our context.



-----Original Message-----
From:	Austad, Jay [SMTP:austad@marketwatch.com]
Sent:	Sunday, November 18, 2001 2:54 PM
To:	'tclug-list@mn-linux.org'
Subject:	[TCLUG] OT: leonids meteor shower

Did anyone else go outside last night and take a look at the meteor shower?
Around 3:30 it was cloudy so I didn't think I'd be able to see it, but I
played some Halo on my roomie's Xbox for about an hour and the clouds had
gone away.  I was able to see about 1 every 5 seconds or so, with several
bursts of 5 or 10 of them at once.  And that was in Brooklyn park, not in
the boonies.

Also, since light pollution is such a problem near cities, I wonder if that
pollution is mostly around a particular wavelength.  If so, would it be
possible to make a filter to look through that would not pass a particular
range of wavelengths?  I'm no physics expert, but something like this might
be possible to improve the visibility of objects the sky near large cities.

Jay
_______________________________________________
Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, 
Minnesota
http://www.mn-linux.org
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:32:34 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.105.1105990354.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

am asking the wrong question. I simply need to create 70-80 user mailboxes.

Secondly, what programs can I use to for IMAP capabilities, and access to
mailboxes via www.


Thanks


Raymond


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:32:40 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.106.1105990360.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"Mandrake in the News
----------------------------------------
ZDNET: Mandrake 8.1 offers superior server platform.
Here's a wonderful article about some of the "high-end" capabilities of
Mandrake Linux that we don't hear enough about:

"Mandrake Linux 8.1 is an excellent choice for organizations seeking a
viable, stable, technologically advanced alternative to Windows-based
servers. While its utility as an alternative desktop is still dependent
upon (growing) commercial app support, Mandrake's server environment is
an excellent--and affordable--option for use as an Internet gateway or
file and print server for Windows (and Linux) clients. Its included
applications and utilities are highly useful, and its support offerings
are more than adequate for corporate server deployments. Also, its
support for ACLs (with XFS) enhances Mandrake's capabilities as a
file/print server in NT environments.
Organizations looking for ways to lower their server costs would be
well advised to evaluate this latest offering from Mandrake."
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2826684,00.html"

Mandrake has gotten better about not turning on every service, they ask now
before they turn it on and warn about any that are on by default.  But,
having said that, I still run RedHat on my servers and Mandrake on the
desktop.  Although, I have been having problems with 8.1 and am now running
RH on one of my desktops.

Thanks,

James Spinti
jspinti at dartdist.com
952-368-3278 x396
fax 952-368-3255



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:32:42 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.107.1105990362.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

start->run \\sambasrvr
click on printers folder
right click a printer, select properties, hit 'no' when asked to install 
	drivers
click on sharing tab -> install additional drivers
select intel windows 2000, click ok

I get this error:

Unable to install the Intel, Windows 2000 driver.  Operation could not be
completed.

The samba log file for the windows 2000 client (named python) shows this:

[2001/11/28 16:11:48, 1] lib/util_sock.c:get_socket_name(1003)
  Gethostbyaddr failed for 144.34.36.2
[2001/11/28 16:11:48, 0] rpc_server/srv_spoolss_nt.c:_spoolss_fcpn(4695)
  _spoolss_fcpn: Invalid handle (OTHER)
[2001/11/28 16:11:48, 0] rpc_server/srv_spoolss_nt.c:close_printer_handle(261)
  close_printer_handle: Invalid handle (OTHER)
[2001/11/28 16:11:52, 0] rpc_server/srv_spoolss_nt.c:close_printer_handle(261)
  close_printer_handle: Invalid handle (OTHER)
[2001/11/28 16:11:59, 0] smbd/service.c:make_connection(238)
  python (144.34.36.2) couldn't find service ::{2227a280-3aea-1069-a2de-08002b30309d}


Could the 'Gethostbyaddr failed' be the source of my problem or is it
something else?

What am I missing?
-- 
Amy Tanner
amy@real-time.com

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:32:45 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.108.1105990365.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

been trying to get Age of Empires working with wine/winex for a long 
time...  

-- 
Tom Cross                     Voice: 320-253-1020    FAX: 320-253-6956
System Administrator                          E-mail: tomc@kendeco.com
Airgas Kendeco Tool Crib                        http://www.kendeco.com
       --> Now with new and improved extension number 207!!! <--
        St Cloud Area Linux Users Group: http://www.scalug.org


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:33:10 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.109.1105990390.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

allow_user_setting=nobody

in lpd.conf (replace nobody with whatever the smb process is running as)

..to allow the samba process to pass through the actual user since by
default root is the only user that can do that.  I've tried this but it still 
doesn't work.  

Any one get this to work?  Any ideas?
-- 
Amy Tanner
amy@real-time.com

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:33:13 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.110.1105990393.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

network with a JetDirect. Printing from the Linux server works OK.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:33:13 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.111.1105990393.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Neighborhood. I then installed the HPLJ4000 driver locally on the Win2K client, but when I 
print (e.g. from Notepad) I get the following error:

   'A StartDocPrinter call was not issued'

Other programs simply state 'Could not start print job'.

Are there any files that need to be created/configured besides /etc/printcap and smb.conf ?  
 Where/how does the script 'smbprint' fit in?

Here are the packages that I have installed (from LPRng HowTo section 2.1) :
  LPRng-3.7.4-28
  ifhp-3.4.9-1
  ghostscript-6.51-16
  gv-3.5.8-13
  file-3.35-2


Below are my printcap and (partial) smb.conf files...

# /etc/printcap
#
# DO NOT EDIT! MANUAL CHANGES WILL BE LOST!
# This file is autogenerated by printconf-backend during lpd init.
#
# Hand edited changes can be put in /etc/printcap.local, and will be included.

lab-red:\
        :sh:\
        :ml=0:\
        :mx=0:\
        :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lab-red:\
        :af=/var/spool/lpd/lab-red/lab-red.acct:\
        :lp=|/usr/share/printconf/util/jetdirectprint:\
        :lpd_bounce=true:\
        :if=/usr/share/printconf/util/mf_wrapper:

###############################################################################
## Everything below here is included verbatim from /etc/printcap.local       ##
###############################################################################
# printcap.local
#
# This file is included by printconf's generated printcap,
# and can be used to specify custom hand edited printers.


# /etc/samba/smb.conf
[global]
.
.
.

        load printers = Yes
        printcap name = /etc/printcap
.
.
.


[homes]
        comment = Home Directories
        valid users = %S
        read only = No
        create mask = 0664
        directory mask = 0775
        browseable = No

[printers]
        comment = Lab Printers
        path = /var/spool/lpd/samba
        printable = Yes
        print command = /usr/bin/lpr  -P%p -r %s
        lpq command = /usr/bin/lpq  -P%p
        lprm command = /usr/bin/lprm -P%p %j
        lppause command = /usr/sbin/lpc hold %p %j
        lpresume command = /usr/sbin/lpc release %p %j
        queuepause command = /usr/sbin/lpc  -P%p stop
        queueresume command = /usr/sbin/lpc -P%p start
        browseable = No


If anyone can recommend further reading or send me some example configs it would be 
appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:03 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.112.1105990443.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

someone to demonstrate KDE to a bunch of Windows users. This is a simple
first-step, but it doesn't really teach them anything about Linux, othen
than the fact that it can put on a pretty face. This is analogous to the
idea that learning Windows doesn't really teach you anything about DOS.
The major difference of course, is that in the Microsoft world, the DOS
prompt is (now completely) deprecated, and in Linux, the command prompt is
the central aspect that ties together all Linux distributions, and links
Linux to the big world of Unix and Unix-like operating systems.

That all said, I'd love the opportunity to give your Windows users a good
healthy dose of Linux indoctrination ;)

          -.bill.layer.- .-frogtown.mn.usa.-

.-Microsoft.Windows.XP.- -.suddenly.everything.sucks-.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:29 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.113.1105990469.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

" The 1.1 modems are compatible with existing DOCSIS 1.0 equipment and
will be compatible with modems that will be certified under future
versions of DOCSIS, such as the recently announced DOCSIS 2.0."

> - How long will it be before something better comes out? 

When bandwidth prices in the USA get to decent levels.  They wont
upgrade the equipment until providing more than what they provide now
at the same pricepoint is worthwhile.  Thats my take on it, at least.

DSL is hampered by the same problem, its expensive to provide
'broadband'.

-- 
Scott Dier <dieman@ringworld.org> http://www.ringworld.org/

...one of the top CBS reporters here in the Twin Cities, came up to me and
said, "Governor." Here was her question: "How do you respond to some people
who say you're spending too much time on state security and not enough time
on Major League Baseball and the Twins?"
	-Jesse Ventura, Salon interview 12.17.01
	  on why he thinks media are jackals and his partial
	  justification for ignoring the 'baseball issue'.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:41 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.114.1105990481.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Thanks in advance for your help,



Mike Patchen
IT Technician
City Of Chaska
952-448-2851 x293
mpatchen*at*chaska.net


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:34:44 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.115.1105990483.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Slackware uses MD5.  I think a patch is in the CVS source on the CUPS site,
but not yet released.

Kelly Black
Reference link:
http://www.cups.org/newsgroups.php?G+YMcups+YGcups.general+U2161+D+O56+VS+W's
lackware'

-------------------------------------------------------

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:15 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.116.1105990515.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

like cutting a giant hole in your case and putting
plexi over it doesn't sound like a really good thing
to do... ;)
( http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/fun-stuff/376d.shtml
)

Seems like the easiest thing to do would be to take a
standard PC case, and glue wood panels to it. I wonder
if one couldn't use the wood laminate products at Home
Despot.

On second thought - maybe the best thing to do would
be to get a dorm fridge, and mount the electronic
goodies in there.  It already has the paint job done
to make it blend in with a dorm, and probably more
cooling than you'll ever need :)   And if it has
enough room in it, you could probably stash a couple
of your favorite liquid motivators in it. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:26 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.117.1105990526.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

load-file command.

Or you could create an alternate user with an alternate .emacs file.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bob Tanner
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 10:07 PM
> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> Subject: [TCLUG] emacs config per project?
>
>
> Anyone know how to config emacs per "project"? Like a .emacs for
> each project
> you work on?
>
> I ask because I just had 1 of the open source project I work on
> switch from tabs
> to spaces for indenting -and- from 2 space indent to 4 space indent.
>
> It would be no big deal, but another project I work on is 2 space indent.
>
> Get's annoying having to change my .emacs files depending on
> which project I
> work on.
>
> --
> Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN        | Phone : (952)943-8700
> http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux    | Fax   : (952)943-8500
> Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9
>
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St.
> Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:28 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.118.1105990528.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

You want to have a netbooted PC, more or less a PC-xterm, getting all the apps
from a afs server? No problem, we can customize the kickstart for that.

With the new Anaconda stuff you can really customize the install process.

> What Linux distro is structured to be
> networked-apps/many-simple-workstations?  I know you can add this on by
> yourself later, but then....

Redhat works for Real Time.

> Why not roll your own?  I know this may be a lot of work, but it would be
> nice to have a "standard" which is specific to your clients.  (Actually,
> with distros like RH, you can do an installation, chose your packages, and
> in the end, build an auto-install floppy which can be used to configure new
> machines the same way).  Having a standard distro broken into two parts:
> network file/apps server and client desktop workstation, would help
> maintainability.  If you use a distro which is 1 piece only, 1 size fits
> all, then maintaining a large number(>100) machines could consist of lots
> of remote scripting, or full re-installs.

Rolling your own is pretty simple. Customizing it is every easier. I believe
there is a web site for making customized kickstarts.

Bottom line, linux is very flexible and can fit into any network setup.

-- 
Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN        | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux    | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:29 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.119.1105990529.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

a Red Hat system (please correct
or clarify if necessary):

In "/etc/inittab" file a default runlevel 
is set (3 or 5, not-GUI and GUI 
respectively). With this information 
you can divine which directory the 
contains the startup script links used 
on boot. 

The startup scripts themselves (one 
for each service: httpd, cron,...) are in 
"/etc/rc.d/init.d/". They do the detail 
work of starting up and shutting down 
a service, depending on the argument 
given ("start" or "stop", and possibly 
others). 

The links are in the directories:
"/etc/rc.d/rc1.d/", "/etc/rc.d/rc2.d/", 
etc., one for each runlevel (0-6). Let's 
pretend we are running at runlevel 5, 
and so are interested in the 
"/etc/rc.d/rc5.d/" directory and the 
symbolic links therein. The link names 
start with either "K" (kill) or "S" (start), 
and then a two digit number (00-99).
After that, they usually have the name 
of the file they link to, so the file 
"/etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S35cron" would link 
to "/etc/rc.d/init.d/cron".

When your computer starts, and the 
runlevel is established, the computer 
goes through this directory and kills 
everything that starts with a "K" (this  
facilitates changing runlevels while 
operating) then starts everything that 
starts with an "S", in ascending order 
of the two digits that follow either letter.
"0" runlevel is used for shutdown, and 
runlevel "6" is used for restart, so most 
of their links should start with a "K".

I probably have muddied the things that 
were clear and totally obscured those 
that were hazy. Sorry, 

Troy

>>> tcole@visi.com 01/23/02 10:19PM >>>
I have just set up postfix to be my mail server and it works fine on the
local box, but trying to set up a pop3 server for the rest of the domain
to access this server has not been so easy.  

I am running Mandrake 8.1 with ipop3sd installed and the service is
enabled on demand.  According to the Doc's from Mandrake all I should
have to do is edit the inetd.conf file and restart inetd.  

Unfortunately inetd in not running or configured but appears to be
installed. As I am still learn Linux, I am not familiar with inetd.  Any
help would be great!

Tim
_______________________________________________
Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
http://www.mn-linux.org 
tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:31 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.120.1105990531.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

http://desktoplinux.com/articles/AT9664091996.html

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:35:40 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.121.1105990540.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

of the problem -- does majordomo, just to pick the obvious alternative, 
insist on using a single mbox file, and locking it up almost all the time?  

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:05 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.122.1105990565.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

perspective, it seems that TCLUG is painting a pretty good self
portrait in the collective responses made to the
Outlook/Installfest/TCPC issues.     Anyone care to share what they
see?

Bob W. Anderson

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:29 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.123.1105990588.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

postscript.  Would that be a problem?

Could you temporarily hook one of the printers directly to the linux PC to test
whether the linux print output is correct?  I think the following would give you
a raw print directly to the printer from your groff / lpr command (but you
should probably verify it).

  lp206|HP LaserJet 4000N in Computer Lab:\
          :lp=/dev/lp0:\
          :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp206:\
          :lf=/var/log/lp-errs:\
          :mx#0:\
          :sh:.

-- Doug

Karen A Swanberg wrote:

> Hi all;
>
> First, if anyone who responds would cc: to swanberg@umn.edu, that would be
> great, as I'm subscribed via digest. There is a linux question embedded
> below, I'm just trying to give enough detail...
>
> I have an NT print server serving my networked printers so I can use some
> third party software to do printer accounting (PAS, from
> www.metrics.com) Therefore, my HP Laserprinters (4000N, 4100N, etc) only
> allow print jobs from the IP of the print server. I have macs and pc's
> printing just fine, using the standard print queues of the NT server.
> I have tcp/ip print server service running.
>
> I now have a linux user (running SUSE) who wants to print to the printers.
> I see doing this with one of two methods: printing directly to the printer
> (opening the HP jetdirect to his IP, which is fine) or having him send the
> print job to the print server.
>
> The user is creating the files (either Postscript 2 or 3, depending) by a
> command such as: $ groff -Tlj4 -ms cv.6 > cv6_lj.ps, and sending them to
> the printer or the print server with:  $ lpr -Plp206 cv6_lj.ps
>
> If the user send the job to the print server, the job prints out as the
> postscript commands, rather than the formatted postscript output. If he
> sends it directly to the printer, he gets postscript jibberish or nothing
> at all.
>
> We've tried a bunch of different printcap configurations, some of which
> are below. No luck with any of them.
>
> # /etc/printcap: printer capability database. See printcap(5).
> # You can use the filter entries df, tf, cf, gf etc. for
> # your own filters. See /etc/filter.ps, /etc/filter.pcl and
> # the printcap(5) manual page for further details.
>
> # Notes by Karen.
> # The print queue's are called:
> # PAS-104-Laser - an HP 4100N
> # PAS-206-Laser - an HP 4000N
> # PAS-800-HPGL2 - an HP DesignJet 800PS using the GL2 drivers
> # PAS-800-PS    - The same Designjet using the PS (level 3) drivers
> # PAS-Tek-850DP - Tektronix Phaser 850DP
> # The print server is named graphite.my.domain.edu / AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD
> #       :sd=/var/spool/lpd/pas206:\
>
> lp206|HP LaserJet 4000N in Computer Lab:\
>         :lp:\
> #       :rm=graphite.my.domain.edu:\
> #       :rp=PAS-206-Laser:\
>         :rm=IP.of.printer.here:\
>         :rp=raw:\
>         :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp206:\
>         :lf=/var/log/lp-errs:\
>         :mx#0:
>
> # Tektronix Phaser 850DP Color Printer
> color2|Phaser 850DP:\
>         :lp=:\
>         :rm=graphite.my.domain.edu:\
> #       :rp=AUTO:\
>         :rp=PAS-Tek-850DP:\
>         :mx#0:\
>         :af=/var/log/lp-acct:\
>         :lf=/var/log/lp-errs:\
>         :sd=/var/spool/lpd/color2:\
>         :sh:
>
> I'm in the rough here. I'm unsure how to integrate LPR printing into my
> Win print server (although I'm assured by the tech support on the 3rd
> party printing system that it works, but they don't know how to do it),
> but at this point I'd be happy to completely bypass the print server and
> go straight to the printer. Unfortunately, I have even less of an idea how
> to do that then printing to the server. I've heard rumblings about port
> 9100 printing, but that means nothing to me.
>
> I do have a samba server I could use to catch the lpr print jobs, and send
> them onto the win server, but boy do I *not* want to do that.
>
> I'm told by others "I don't think printcap / lpr is the problem... at
> least, not on the client machine.  Lpr just ships files off to the print
> server: it's the server's job to interpret the job correctly," but if so,
> I don't understand why my NT serer isn't translating this correctly.
>
> Has anyone done this? Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm
> still a bit leary on the whole blackbox printing thing...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -Karen
>
> -                                                                  -
>     Karen Swanberg | Sys Admin | Dept. of Geology and Geophysics
> 206 Pillsbury Hall | 310 Pillsbury Ave. SE | University of Minnesota
>      Minneapolis, MN 55455  (612) 624-6541  (612) 625-3819 (f)
>
>               * <---- Tribble   . <--- Tribble.tgz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:36:49 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.124.1105990609.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY
 This article describes how either an Exchange Server administrator or end 
users can prevent the Winmail.dat attachment from being sent to Internet 
users when using the Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Connector (IMC). 

 When an end user sends mail to the Internet from an Exchange Windows or 
Outlook client, a file attachment called Winmail.dat may be automatically 
added to the end of the message if the recipient's client cannot receive 
messages in Rich Text Format (RTF). The Winmail.dat file contains Exchange 
Server RTF information for the message, and may appear to the recipient as a 
binary file. It is not useful to non-Exchange Server recipients.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many mail clients don't work with RTF (a Microsoft proprietary format).
I was just commenting on how bent out of shape some people were about the 
prior subject of adding X-message-flag headers to the mail messages they sent 
that would change the priority of the mail message.
See this reference for more info:
http://www.rodos.net/outlook/

It was just a simple comparison of what users of other e-mail clients put up 
with without saying anything to the user of the Outlook software.  When you 
compare the statements made to Bob by Outlook users (some disparaging remarks 
about his mother for gosh sake!), you have to wonder what makes some people 
tick.

I did not wish to get anybody worked up, but apparently talking about nuances 
of different e-mail clients is a touchy subject.

Kelly Black
KB0GBJ



On Wednesday 13 February 2002 19:14, "Terry Houle" <houle@citilink.com> wrote:
> Now that I started this controversy on  ON or Off topic and I won't comment
> on the number of items I have seen on this list since that were definitely
> Off Topic and not labeled as such.
> Can someone translate in very simple succinct terms what the
> "X-message-flag and "winmail.dat" means?
> It may be very simple and basic but I believe ON Topic.
>
> tia
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Kelly Black
> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:43 PM
> > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> > Subject: OT RANT (X-message-flag) Was:[TCLUG] TCPC General Meeting on
> > Wireless in your House
> >
> >
> > What was the winmail.dat for?  Did it contain secret info for MS Outhouse
> > users?
> >
> > I suppose I should get as prissy as the Lookout users that
> > complain of having
> > priorities set on the mail from the X-message-flag settings.
> >
> > Kelly Black
>
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
> Minnesota http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:02 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.125.1105990622.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

seems to is when the laptop has to use a lot of Windows virtual memory, as it 
does a lot of extra disk hashing that Linux wouldn't have to, Windows being 
the memory hog that it is.  

-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:37:57 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.126.1105990676.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

It appears though that if I do a reverse lookup of both 127.0.0.1 and 192.168.1.2 on my dns server, they both point to the correct name.  So, it seems like it's working, but those error messages are annoying.

Any further help on this would be great, I think I've about exhausted my own personal references.

Thanks,

Shawn

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:38:14 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.127.1105990694.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Other than the one bug noted, the system has been stable.
I just upgraded to an S24 video card and have not seen the problem since.
I am rather disappointed with video speeds.
My 333 dual-head Matrox PC is faster.

The system currently has dual 2 GB drives.
I wish to upgrade to much larger drives - dual 9 GB or larger is the goal.
The sun site is not much help on what limits, if any, apply.
At this time I have condensed the requirements to:
1" high, 80 pin SCSI SCA drives.
As indicated, the drive must fit in a standard drive sled to lock in the
funky cage and mate with the connectors.
Sun site lists transfer rate as 10 mbs, higher speeds would seem to be a
waste of money.
I have found hints that some drives run too hot on a fully loaded
system, but no definitive answers.
Sun documents 1,2, 4, and 9 GB sizes several places on the site.
Is there any sort of limit on size, assuming I can get the drive to fit
otherwise?

I have another 128 MB of sun memory ready to bring this fire breather
up to a full 256 MB. Somehow, in the age of multi-GB main memory that
just does not seem as impressive as it once did.
When this is all finished, this box will push web pages using Apache,
Perl, and MySQL. I *know* that a vanilla PC would be quicker but:
   Its a sun box - my very own sun at home!
Ya, I know, get a life and all that.
Sigh.

Mark Browne

<snip>


On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Mark Browne wrote:
> I am trying to put Mandrake on my Sparcstaion 5.
> Can anyone point me to a list of what SCSI hard drives are compatible with
> this hardware?
> Thanks

 If it's anything like the Sparc 4 (oh wait, it's nearly identical), it
uses SCA hard drives.  Heck, I'll even verify that.
 Yep.  According to http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_ss5/ :

"On the left side of the machine is room for two, 1-inch-high SCA SCSI
Harddrives (stacked ontop of one another), with the SCA connector
providing power, SCSIbus, and setting the SCSI ID."

 The only problems I foresee are sleds (which Carl says he has), and
processor speed.  (I hope, for your sake, that you don't have the 170MHz
model; it's known for problems with Linux.)  SCA hard drives aren't
particularly difficult to find; I too have a couple of 1-gig's floating
around, as well as a 2-gig I just (last night) cycled out of my Sparc 4
(which, unfortunately, can only evidently take one HD).  If you're looking
for bigger, MPC (http://www.materialsprocessing.com/) has some used SCA
drives, some of them rather large.

 And huh, I don't think I was aware that Mandrake has a Sparc version,
either.

Jima




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:38:37 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.128.1105990717.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

is looking at replace the 67x with.

http://www.arescom.com/New/Products%20Page/Stored%20Products%20Pages/NetDSL1000%20Page/NetDSL1000.htm


-- 
Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN        | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux    | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:38:38 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.129.1105990718.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

(Question)I'm using a Macintosh, is it possible for me to use the USB
connection for my NetDSL 800/1000 unit? Or can I download USB software
from your site for my Macintosh?

Answer: Unfortunately, our NetDSL 800/1000 USB connection can only work on
the Windows OS. For some DSL service packages, USB connection may not be
supported, please contact your DSL service provider for details.

DEATH TO QWORST.

-Brian



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:39:00 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.130.1105990740.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

  With StarOffice 6.0, Sun has enacted a new licensing policy that
  charges money for the office suite. MandrakeSoft has signed an OEM
  agreement with Sun to become a licensee which enables us to bundle
  StarOffice 6.0 with our retail packages (PowerPack, Prosuite).

Fred

--
1/29/02 The "Crooked" E: How true it is!  (Enron T - shirt)
More info:   http://www.mtn.org/~fholson/sig-detail.htm
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411   (near north Mpls)
fholson@cohousing.org 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm Cent time) 
List manager of Cohousing-L & Nbhd-tc  Ham radio:WB0YQM          




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:39:24 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.131.1105990764.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

installer system that knows the tweaks needed to get the Windows software
installers to work properly.  For instance, some programs need to be run
in a virtual desktop, while other windows run best in a managed or
unmanaged mode.  They've also researched what needs to be done to install
extra fonts and other things.  Additionally, in the Plugin package, there
is a specialized plugin that allows a Windows plugin to run in a Linux
browser.  I think portions of that code may be proprietary to CodeWeavers,
but I'm not sure.

At any rate, I know you can accomplish a lot of this stuff on your own if
you spend enough time.  I don't think there's a good open source plugin
(yet) that can allow a Windows plugin to run in a Linux browser (Plugger
might allow it), so it's probably worth the $25.  I'm sure most folks
would end up spending more than a few hours tweaking if they really wanted
things to work right, so it depends on how much money you think your time
is worth.

-- 
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   Wax on, wax off.
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __)  
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ]

--=.hza3Q?O4x(1El(
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE8rnHC05OjzVUnj0URAoyAAKC9fmXwENw+7d9qn01vzYWSPgAYuACfRQHo
IUyuviGsSer2U1ubIbOQSVM=
=OSk9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=.hza3Q?O4x(1El(--


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:39:31 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.132.1105990771.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

for various servers, and the occasional lock file.  I'd say that RedHat
is probably right to toast them on boot :-p

--=20
 _  _  _  _ _  ___    _ _  _  ___ _ _  __   Suicidal twin kills sister
/ \/ \(_)| ' // ._\  / - \(_)/ ./| ' /(__   by mistake!
\_||_/|_||_|_\\___/  \_-_/|_|\__\|_|_\ __) =20
[ Mike Hicks | http://umn.edu/~hick0088/ | mailto:hick0088@tc.umn.edu ]

--=-pTXharfIH8JDWqWdUXGE
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc
Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQA8tKeB05OjzVUnj0URAmDBAKC+ep7ANbIeISa/yvbb+hEzZ/xhuwCgqeBz
R4fAkkOlXZCuruRypESVDnI=
=ngb9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=-pTXharfIH8JDWqWdUXGE--


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:40:11 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.133.1105990811.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"CDRW 36X12X48 CYBERDRIVE CW068 RETAIL BOX.EIDE CDRW, 2MB Internal Cache
Buffer. 36X CD-R/12X CD-RW/48X CD-ROM Drive. Power Saving feature. ISO
9660 Compliant. Model#: CW068D"  $72.00

Yup, a 36X burner, for $72.

Just burned a copy of DemoLinux (~725mb) on it, took 4m2s, including the
10-second cdrecord 'wait' period that I haven't bothered figuring out how
to turn off. This includes leadin/leadout. Wow!

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:40:40 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.134.1105990840.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

CPU for most of the raid processing, and you might as well just use the
Linux software raid.. but there is supposed to be support for the Promise
stuff in the newer kernels.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:40:57 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.135.1105990857.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

The <tip> is how a list subscriber "pays" for making an off-topic post
to the list (see List Info for more information).


Samir M. Nassar
-- 
RedConcepts.NET              --  Open Solutions Design Syndicate
Open Source, Public Service  --  the Art and Craft of Webdesign
http://redconcepts.net       --  http://os-ds.com
     'Open Source, Open Systems, Open Borders, Open Minds'


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:41:21 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.136.1105990881.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

for simple stuff it's easy), and have a tendancy to die.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:41:23 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.137.1105990883.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

of 7.3/i386
Bob?


Samir M. Nassar



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:41:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.138.1105990892.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@dd-b.net  /  New TMDA anti-spam in test
 John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
          New Dragaera mailing list, see http://dragaera.info

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:41:33 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.139.1105990893.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

the 'default service = share' line under [global] meant that anyone that
failed to authenticate would default to the [share] section.  Ideally, the
/share volume wouldn't require any authentication to connect to, and it
would be visable via the Network Neighborhood in Windows.

Currently, if a valid user tries to connect they get their home directory
and they can mount the /share volume.  Anyone that tries to access the
fileserver without authenticating or authenticating improperly (bad
username/password) isn't getting anything.

Any help would be appreciated.

Jeff


-------------- Begin included text --------------

# Samba config file * 6-10-02 * Jeff Robertson

[global]
  netbios name = NAGA
  server string = Samba %v on (%L)
  workgroup = WORKGROUP
  security = user
  encrypt passwords = yes
  smb passwd file = /etc/samba/smbpasswd
  default service = share
  browseable = no

  # Printing specific section - to be debugged later
#  printing = BSD
#  print command = /usr/bin/lpr -r -P&p %s
#  printcap file = /etc/printcap
#  min print space = 2000

  # Browsing election options (makes the Samba server the local master browser)
  os level = 34
  local master = yes

  # Recommended performance tuning options from O'Reilly Using Samba
  socket options = TCP_NODELAY IPTOS_LOWDELAY
  read raw = yes
  write raw = yes
  oplocks = yes
  max xmit = 65535
  keep alive = 60
  dead time = 30
  getwd cache = yes
  lpq cache = 30

[share]
  path = /share
  comment = "Global Share"
  browseable = yes
  guest ok = yes
  guest only = yes
  writeable = yes
  veto files = /.journal/
  delete veto files = no
  follow symlinks = yes
  wide links = no

[homes]
  comment = "Home Directory for : %u "
  browseable = no
  guest ok = no
  writeable = yes
  create mode = 644
  follow symlinks = yes
  wide links = yes

# [printers]
#   path = /tmp
#   browseable = yes
#   printable = yes
#   guest ok = yes


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:41:56 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.140.1105990916.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

"The scripts in this directory are executed once when booting the system,
even when booting directly into single user mode. The files are all symbolic
links, the real files are located in /etc/init.d/ . For a more general
discussion of this technique, see /etc/init.d/README."

(no proofing necessary - all cut and paste! :p )



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:14 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.141.1105990934.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

> Anyone have a clue what the OR key is?  Or the Alt Gr?

Looking at the Forward Electronics, Ltd. keyboard attached to my NCD
terminal (can we assume this is a Sun-compliant keyboard, since the NCD is a
thin client to a Solaris2.6 server?), I see the following for the bottom
(spacebar) row:

[Ctrl][Alt][<diamond>][     spacebar      ][<diamond>][compose][Alt Graph]
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So, at a guess, I'd say either a) buy a Sun keyboard, or b) map whatever
keys you like to whichever keycodes X/StarOffice expects for 'compose' and
'Alt Graph'.

--
Chris Johnson Bidler



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.142.1105990952.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>         | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. 
Fingerprint: 02E0 2734 A1A1 DBA1 0E15  623D 0036 7327 93D9 7DA3

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.143.1105990952.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

the joystick.  You'll get the service provider lock/unlock menu.  You need
ATT's NCK number to unlock the phone, and if you type it in wrong 5 times it
will lock your phone forever to ATT.  If anyone can find out the NCK for me,
I'd be forever grateful.  :)

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:42:32 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.144.1105990952.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

this).  It will give you a menu where you can see different config options
in the phone and different network settings.

Jay

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:38 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.145.1105991018.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

http://www.iglu.org.il/iglu.org.il/pub/Hebrew/OpenOffice/oo-bidi-doc/OO_READ
ME.html

/****

3. Installation of True Type Unicode fonts

In order to print Hebrew and/or Arabic characters in the OpenOffice swriter
application, you have to install True Type Unicode fonts on your Linux.

3.1 Where to find True Type Unicode fonts

·        If you have legally purchased a copy of MS Windows, you can take
advantage of True Type fonts distributed with the system.  Look for *.ttf
files in your \…\Windows\Fonts directory (for example, cour.ttf, l_10646.ttf
etc.).

·        Download True Type Unicode fonts from the Internet.

****/

jl

-----------
James Louis

;)

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-admin@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Amy Tanner
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:11 PM
To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: [TCLUG] staroffice 6.0 & truetype fonts


I recently installed StarOffice 6.0 and am trying to view some MS Word
documents.  In one particular document, the font is Times New Roman.
When I open it in SO, all the apostrophes show up as question marks.  I
noticed SO indicates the font as Times.  If I change the font to any
other font, the apostrophes show up correctly.

Thinking this was a font problem, I scanned my box for any *.ttf files.
I did find some in /usr/local/staroffice6.0/share/fonts/truetype/ but none
that look like Times New Roman.  What do I need to do to make the document
look correctly in SO?  Is it just a matter of copying the appropriate ttf
file from a windows box to my truetype dir?  Are there any legal or patent
issues with that?  In general, are the standard Microsoft fonts freely
available for use on a linux box?  I couldn't find any websites that
clearly explained this.

I found some links on the web about Microsoft Core Fonts but Microsoft's
site says they are no longer making the core fonts available for free
download.

I appreciate your help.

--
Amy Tanner
amy@real-time.com


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:47 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.146.1105991027.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

if I'm going to have to break out the windows box to set it up or not.

Dave




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:52 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.147.1105991032.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

a SQL data store.  Might be only MS SQL Server.

My employer has been running 5.5 for two+ years - we've had one
database corruption on one of our four mail servers in that time.
From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:43:52 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.148.1105991032.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

mail-store on the server - if you have reasonable limits and enforce
them (200-400MB max per individual), you'll probably never have any
corruption.  If you allow individuals to put 1GB+ on the server (like
certain VIP's here), then, sooner or later, the server goes belly-up.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun@fireopal.org

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:44:17 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.149.1105991057.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Lithium Ion bataries. I have found that the lifetime is truely impressive,
and mine recharge relatively fast. I use a Nikon CoolPix.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crumley" <crumley@belka.space.umn.edu>
To: <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TCLUG] Digital cameras


> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 12:00:38PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > You probably will get better lifetime and better cost from good
throw-away
> > batteries like Duracells.  Rechargeable would be a real nuisance for me
on a
> > vacation trip.
>
> Huh? Have you tried rechargeable batteries lately? Sure you
> probably get lifetime out quality disposable batteries than
> lower end rechargeables, but metal-based rechargeables last
> _longer_ in digital cameras and the like [1].
>
> As for price, even alkaline rechargeables end up being a win
> in the long run. I get lifetimes only a little worse than high
> quality disposable batteries (and better than cheap disposables)
> from rechargeable alkalines, I get at least 20 charges out of
> them, and the price is only twice that of high quality disposable
> batteries.
>
>   1. http://www.greenbatteries.com/documents/battery_myths.htm
> --
> Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List
(TCLUG)
> crumley@fields.space.umn.edu |Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/
> Never laugh at live dragons  |Dmitry's free,Jon's next?
http://faircopyright.org
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota
> http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:44:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.150.1105991083.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

looks like you're in good shape.  I've been using a Linksys
NP10T for some time with much joy BTW.

> It recognizes but when you go into 'ifconfig' it doesn't show
> that card at all.  Anyone know how to do it?

What does /var/log/daemon.log say?  My (limited) PCMCIA experience
tells me to start looking there for error messages from 'cardmgr'.
And what have you got in /etc/pcmcia/network.opts?

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Mailing List http://www.mn-linux.org
Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota                irc.openprojects.net #tclug

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:44:56 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.151.1105991096.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

on my Mandrake 8.1+updates system.

> any alternative suggestions for a user friendly file wrangler?

GMC? Not as slick, but easy to use and low memory footprint.

--=20
Dave Sherman        |     "They that can give up essential liberty
MCSE, MCSA, CCNA    |       to obtain a little temporary safety
                    |       deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                    |        - Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

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Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part

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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 13:06:07 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:45:03 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.152.1105991103.15762.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

for SIS730 systems. Words of experience would be welcome.
    :Peter

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 14:02:34 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:02:38 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1105992158.23875.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

year, around the same time they reallocated IPs.
John

>>> kelly.black@penguinpackets.com 10/28/02 08:52AM >>>
On Sun, 2002-10-27 at 19:09, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote:
Snip---
> AT&T (sadly) blocked port 80 further out in their network, which
reduces 
> much of the arp storms that were caused by Code Red and it's
variants, but
> there are plenty of other things/people out there still scanning.
> 
Snip---

Port 80 seems to be open again.

Kelly Black
KB0GBJ


_______________________________________________
Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota
http://www.mn-linux.org tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 


--=_471BCAF2.47265EAD
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Description: HTML

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt Tahoma; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV>From what I can remember, port 80 was reopened around February of this 
year, around the same time they reallocated IPs.</DIV>
<DIV>John<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; kelly.black@penguinpackets.com 10/28/02 08:52AM 
&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>On Sun, 2002-10-27 at 19:09, Matthew S. Hallacy 
wrote:<BR>Snip---<BR>&gt; AT&amp;T (sadly) blocked port 80 further out in their 
network, which reduces <BR>&gt; much of the arp storms that were caused by Code 
Red and it's variants, but<BR>&gt; there are plenty of other things/people out 
there still scanning.<BR>&gt; <BR>Snip---<BR><BR>Port 80 seems to be open 
again.<BR><BR>Kelly 
Black<BR>KB0GBJ<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Twin 
Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota<BR><A 
href="http://www.mn-linux.org/">http://www.mn-linux.org</A> 
tclug-list@mn-linux.org<BR><A 
href="https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list">https://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list</A><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--=_471BCAF2.47265EAD--

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 14:02:34 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:02:43 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1105992163.23875.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Bob did a trace on it, and found it fails at:

  if (!(hp=gethostbyaddr((char*) in,sizeof(*in), AF_INET)))

So it's logical that it'd work by adding it to /etc/hosts.

I think I'll try building glibc 3 out of Rawhide, and see if that resolves
the issue.

*inserts mandantory "I wish we were running Debian" line*

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 14:03:06 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:03:07 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1105992187.23943.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

for any Vision data usage on the unlimited plan in any case; it's only if
you actually use your phone as a -modem- (IE, dialing a remote ISP).

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 14:03:06 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:03:16 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1105992196.23943.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

<snip>
The vast majority of White Papers, Profiles, Impacts and other documents 
published by Aberdeen are free to all visitors who register at aberdeen.com. 
There is a fee for selected reports, including surveys of emerging markets, 
Best Practices studies and quantitative forecasts. Fee-based reports are 
developed from Aberdeen's independent market research and surveys as well as 
our primary research with suppliers. Other research content on the site (and 
some webcasts hosted by Aberdeen) may be sponsored by a supplier or group of 
suppliers that want to clearly describe a new technology and reach new 
audiences.
</snip>

In other words: Microsoft payed for this report...

-- 
Chris
MCSE - Minesweeper Consultant / Solitaire  Expert
f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng.

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jan 17 14:03:42 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:03:47 2005
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1105992227.24115.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Visual Studio.NET 
comprehensive development tool, built to increase your 
productivity. Try a free online hosted session at:
http://ads.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?micr0003en


-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>         | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
http://www.linuxjustworks.com             | Linux Just Works!         
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From slushpupie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 16:53:59 2005
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:58:33 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E87A8D.90703@visi.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com> <41E87A8D.90703@visi.com>
Message-ID: <ace41e705011714532a456f58@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:06:05 -0600, Sam MacDonald <smac@visi.com> wrote:
> I have kids so having a phone in the house at all times is important.
> Qwest is more expensive when you don't have a phone line ($33.00)

Something for people to remember when doing VoIP phones is that 911
services is not supported in all areas yet. I think most of the twin
cities area is, though.  For some people this isnt a concern- but if
you have kids in your house, you want them to be able to dial 911 and
have it work when they need it (hopfully they never will- I never did)

Jay


-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/

From natecars at real-time.com  Mon Jan 17 17:24:09 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:28:29 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <ace41e705011714532a456f58@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com> <41E87A8D.90703@visi.com>
	<ace41e705011714532a456f58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501171722420.15258@enchanter.real-time.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, slushpupie@gmail.com wrote:
> Something for people to remember when doing VoIP phones is that 911
> services is not supported in all areas yet. I think most of the twin
> cities area is, though.  For some people this isnt a concern- but if you
> have kids in your house, you want them to be able to dial 911 and have
> it work when they need it (hopfully they never will- I never did)

..and even though Vonage does offer 911 dialing, it's not the same as 911 
from a POTS line. Apparently, it does not yet provide locational services 
and such -- so you have to be able to state your address and such for the 
person on the phone.

There's a trial in some state (don't recall which) that has E911 rolled
out to all of their emergency centers to provide the address info which 
apparently works quite well, but as far as I know it's not in MN yet. I'd 
love to be corrected, though!

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From arkajyoti at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 18:53:21 2005
From: arkajyoti at gmail.com (Arkajyoti Misra)
Date: Mon Jan 17 19:01:40 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] no sound in FC3
Message-ID: <4ecba2ff05011716532fa4a6c4@mail.gmail.com>

I have upgraded my OS from FC1 to FC3 and I do not have any sound. In
FC1 there was no such problem.

Soundcard information:
Vendor: ALi
Model: Corporation M5451 PCI AC-Link Controller Audio Device
Module: snd_ali5451

#grep snd /etc/modprobe.conf 
alias snd-card-0 snd-ali5451
options snd-card-0 index=0

#/sbin/lspci 
00:00.0 Host bridge: ALi Corporation M1672 Northbridge [CyberALADDiN-P4]
00:01.0 PCI bridge: ALi Corporation PCI to AGP Controller
00:04.0 IDE interface: ALi Corporation M5229 IDE (rev c4)
00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: ALi Corporation M5451 PCI AC-Link
Controller Audio Device (rev 02)
00:07.0 ISA bridge: ALi Corporation M1533 PCI to ISA Bridge [Aladdin IV]
00:08.0 Bridge: ALi Corporation M7101 Power Management Controller [PMU]
00:09.0 Modem: ALi Corporation M5457 AC'97 Modem Controller
00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
00:0c.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43)
00:0c.1 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43)
00:0c.2 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB 2.0 (rev 04)
00:10.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212
802.11abg NIC (rev 01)
00:11.0 CardBus bridge: Toshiba America Info Systems ToPIC95 PCI to
Cardbus Bridge with ZV Support (rev 33)
00:12.0 System peripheral: Toshiba America Info Systems SD TypA
Controller (rev 05)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Trident Microsystems CyberBlade
XPAi1 (rev 82)

#/sbin/lsmod
Module                  Size  Used by
parport_pc             26501  0
lp                     12077  0
parport                36617  2 parport_pc,lp
md5                     4033  1
ipv6                  230273  8
autofs4                22981  0
sunrpc                154149  1
pcmcia                 20805  2
ipt_REJECT              6593  6
iptable_filter          3521  1
ip_tables              16321  2 ipt_REJECT,iptable_filter
microcode               6497  0
dm_mod                 55509  0
video                  15813  0
toshiba_acpi            5717  0
button                  6609  0
battery                 9285  0
ac                      4805  0
yenta_socket           19137  0
pcmcia_core            50817  2 pcmcia,yenta_socket
ohci_hcd               23381  0
ehci_hcd               34761  0
i2c_ali15x3             7109  0
i2c_core               20801  1 i2c_ali15x3
snd_ali5451            25605  1
snd_ac97_codec         67105  1 snd_ali5451
snd_pcm_oss            47861  0
snd_mixer_oss          17089  1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_pcm                92233  3 snd_ali5451,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
snd_timer              28357  1 snd_pcm
snd                    52261  8
snd_ali5451,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
soundcore               9889  1 snd
snd_page_alloc          9541  1 snd_pcm
8139too                26177  0
mii                     4673  1 8139too
ext3                  116041  2
jbd                    68185  1 ext3

This seems to be a common problem for FC3 users but none of the fixes
posted on the web worked for me.
Any ideas?

Arko

P.S. Sound works under Knoppix but there was no modprobe.conf file. Why?

From sfertch at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 07:14:05 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Tue Jan 18 07:18:44 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] no sound in FC3
In-Reply-To: <4ecba2ff05011716532fa4a6c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ecba2ff05011716532fa4a6c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a05011805143821fb23@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:53:21 -0600, Arkajyoti Misra <arkajyoti@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have upgraded my OS from FC1 to FC3 and I do not have any sound. In
> FC1 there was no such problem.
>  
<snip>

> This seems to be a common problem for FC3 users but none of the fixes
> posted on the web worked for me.
> Any ideas?
> 
> Arko
> 
> P.S. Sound works under Knoppix but there was no modprobe.conf file. Why?
> 

Been a while since I've used Fedora, but out of curiosity, have you
tried running the redhat-config-soundcard config tool?

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Mon Jan 17 11:54:30 2005
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:35:34 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RE: PC Card NIC
In-Reply-To: <E1CqbAd-0001eh-Ff@pirate.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <200501171752.j0HHqPuL030927@alpha.twp-llc.com>

This is a laptop I got for free. I bought another for parts
for $5. I am not going to buy a new card for this machine, and
I'm hoping some of you all have just what I need.

When I need something new, Micro Center and Best buy are on my
shopping list, though.

eBay is my next stop.

Chrs

> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:57:24 -0600
> From: "Joseph Key" <jkey@tomobiki.dyndns.org>

> Have you tried Best Buy. I pick up a pcmcia card like that 
> about a year ago their.  
> 
> Joseph Key

My ad said:
> I want to buy a PC Card 100Mbps wired LAN card for a very old 
> laptop, so it cannot be a CardBus type.


From natecars at real-time.com  Mon Jan 17 12:49:41 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:35:46 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501170844160.24931@titan>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<fc40260f05011612041d5d7a9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501170844160.24931@titan>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501171247230.15258@enchanter.real-time.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Adam Maloney wrote:
> I thought RT had turned up a TWT connection (in fact, I remember
> spouting off to Nate how great they were...), but I don't see 4323 in
> their path list.

Hmm? We've got it:

route-views.oregon-ix.net>sh ip bgp regexp 16747$
<...>
*  65.165.40.0/21   196.7.106.245            0             0 2905 701 16747 16747 i
*                   209.10.12.28          8203             0 4513 4323 16747 i
*                   209.10.12.156         8604             0 4513 4323 16747 i
*                   209.10.12.125            0             0 4513 4323 16747 i
<...>

--
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Mon Jan 17 13:50:53 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:35:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Perl Regular Expression Help
Message-ID: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

Sorry for the cross post - wasn't sure what the best list to ask this
was.

I need a Perl RE to replace a specific HTML comment, something like:

<!-- blahblahblah Josh blahblahblah -->

I want to remove all comments with the word Josh in it.  "Josh" could
be anywhere inside the comment tags.

Here's what I have (upon removing all line breaks):

$text =~ s/<!--([^\-][^\-][^>])*?Josh([^\-][^\-][^>])*?-->//g;

This doesn't match though.  I don't believe I want to use a .*? in
place of the ([^\-][^\-][^>])*? because there might be many comments
in a page containing this word and I don't want to replace what's
between the comments.  Basically an open comment followed by zero or
more characters that are NOT the closing comment tag sequence,
followed by Josh, followed by zero or more characters that are not the
closing comment tag sequence, followed by the closing comment tag. 
The problem is the "not closing comment tag sequence".  Is this not
the right way to do this?

Should match:

<!--Josh-->
<!--Josh Rules-->
<!--There goes Josh-->
<!--Wow, Josh is Cool-->

I've also tried lookahead assertions, but I'm not very good with
those, so I'm probably flailing around wildly here:

$text =~ s/<!--((?:(?!<!--)(?!-->)Josh)*)-->//gx;

Neither of these seem to do the job.

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Jsoh

From chris at efinke.com  Mon Jan 17 13:56:23 2005
From: chris at efinke.com (Christopher Finke)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:36:05 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [tcphp] [OT] Perl Regular Expression Help
Message-ID: <38d73fdc76e02d888a01c9579cbff17a@ida.affordablehost.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:50:53 -0600, Josh Trutwin <josh@trutwins.homeip.net>,  wrote:
> I want to remove all comments with the word Josh in it.  "Josh"
> could be anywhere inside the comment tags.

I believe this *should* work:

$text =~ s/<!--.*Josh.*-->/U/g;

I might have the syntax wrong at the end there, but this is how I'd do it in PHP:

$text = preg_replace("/<!--.*Josh.*-->/U","",$text);

Chris Finke



From rounen at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 14:07:40 2005
From: rounen at gmail.com (Rounen)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:36:12 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [tcphp] [OT] Perl Regular Expression Help
In-Reply-To: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <dc538bf005011712074adb8079@mail.gmail.com>

Regex Coach is your friend [http://www.weitz.de/regex-coach/]
I put your regex in there and stepped thru the engine - it's matching
a character to each of the [^\-][^\-][^>] character elements, meaning
you have a one-in-three chance of hitting it just right before
checking for 'Josh'.
-r


On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:50:53 -0600, Josh Trutwin
<josh@trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> Sorry for the cross post - wasn't sure what the best list to ask this
> was.
> 
> I need a Perl RE to replace a specific HTML comment, something like:
> 
> <!-- blahblahblah Josh blahblahblah -->
> 
> I want to remove all comments with the word Josh in it.  "Josh" could
> be anywhere inside the comment tags.
> 
> Here's what I have (upon removing all line breaks):
> 
> $text =~ s/<!--([^\-][^\-][^>])*?Josh([^\-][^\-][^>])*?-->//g;
> 
> This doesn't match though.  I don't believe I want to use a .*? in
> place of the ([^\-][^\-][^>])*? because there might be many comments
> in a page containing this word and I don't want to replace what's
> between the comments.  Basically an open comment followed by zero or
> more characters that are NOT the closing comment tag sequence,
> followed by Josh, followed by zero or more characters that are not the
> closing comment tag sequence, followed by the closing comment tag.
> The problem is the "not closing comment tag sequence".  Is this not
> the right way to do this?
> 
> Should match:
> 
> <!--Josh-->
> <!--Josh Rules-->
> <!--There goes Josh-->
> <!--Wow, Josh is Cool-->
> 
> I've also tried lookahead assertions, but I'm not very good with
> those, so I'm probably flailing around wildly here:
> 
> $text =~ s/<!--((?:(?!<!--)(?!-->)Josh)*)-->//gx;
> 
> Neither of these seem to do the job.
> 
> Any thoughts / suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jsoh
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: talk-unsubscribe@tcphp.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: talk-help@tcphp.org
> 
>

From bellsoffreedom at animail.net  Mon Jan 17 16:02:39 2005
From: bellsoffreedom at animail.net (Nick)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:36:20 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
Message-ID: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>

Hello all,

Situation:  I have a SUSE 9.0 Linux laptop hooked up to a Windows XP 
Home Edition desktop with a cross over cable. Windows recognizes the 
connection. Linux doesn't.

Question:  When I ping, Linux says network is unreachable. How do I 
get Linux to see the network? 


P.S. I'm new to lists, so if I do anything deserving of flaming, 
please tell me, don't flame. Thank you!


?Take sides. Neutrality helps the 
oppressor, never the victim.?
~ Elie Wiesel

View my blog & artwork!
***********************
http://artandprose.blogspot.com/
Support Care2 Email: 1,400 whales may be killed this year. Take action! http://www.care2.com/go/z/17954

From MAILER-DAEMON at readyserver.net  Tue Jan 18 04:03:35 2005
From: MAILER-DAEMON at readyserver.net (MAILER-DAEMON@readyserver.net)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:36:26 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] failure notice
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1106058986.31649.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at readyserver.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<trash@iaccess.com.sg>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. vpopmail (#5.1.1)

--- Enclosed are the original headers of the message.
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: boonsiong@iaccess.com.sg
Subject: Virus Worm.SomeFool.P found in attached mail by ClamAV.
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:03:35 +0800
Size: 758
Url: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050118/08333eec/attachment.mht
From tpenney at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 08:48:15 2005
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Tue Jan 18 08:48:38 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Upgrading the tclug
	mailing list server
In-Reply-To: <200501141113.32058@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501141113.32058@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <5c596d0e050118064856f2a27e@mail.gmail.com>

> You -must- confirm the invitation to be re-subscribed to the mailing list(s).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Did you read the above? Shaka his face red! His arms wide!

Sokath, his eyes uncovered!

From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Tue Jan 18 09:01:51 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Tue Jan 18 09:08:39 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Perl Regular Expression Help
In-Reply-To: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <20050118150151.GA7645@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 01:50:53PM -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> Sorry for the cross post - wasn't sure what the best list to ask this
> was.
> 
> I need a Perl RE to replace a specific HTML comment, something like:
> 
> <!-- blahblahblah Josh blahblahblah -->
> 
> I want to remove all comments with the word Josh in it.  "Josh" could
> be anywhere inside the comment tags.

Handling HTML with regexen is wrong, but this might get you by:

   s/<!--.*?Josh.*?-->//sg;

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

From adam at whee.org  Tue Jan 18 08:54:44 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Tue Jan 18 09:13:35 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] ICMP blocking with Time/Warner?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501171247230.15258@enchanter.real-time.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501141231530.16685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<745b585e050114111559acb44@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105730816.41e81d00daa1a@my.visi.com>
	<20050115075432.GO23515@momentum.poptix.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501150926400.24280@conformity.technicality.org>
	<fc40260f05011612041d5d7a9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501170844160.24931@titan>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501171247230.15258@enchanter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501180850500.8729@titan>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Nate Carlson wrote:

> Hmm? We've got it:
>
> route-views.oregon-ix.net>sh ip bgp regexp 16747$
> <...>
> *  65.165.40.0/21   196.7.106.245            0             0 2905 701 16747 16747 i
> *                   209.10.12.28          8203             0 4513 4323 16747 i
> *                   209.10.12.156         8604             0 4513 4323 16747 i
> *                   209.10.12.125            0             0 4513 4323 16747 i

Ah, I was looking at your Sprint /23.  TWT still rules!

A Destination        P Prf   Metric 1   Metric 2  Next hop        AS path
* 208.20.202.0/23    B 170         90            >157.130.111.109 701 
16747 16747 I
                      B 170         90          8 >as0.0           1239 
16747 16747 I

From adam at whee.org  Tue Jan 18 08:56:33 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Tue Jan 18 09:19:34 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501180855020.8729@titan>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Nick wrote:

> Question:  When I ping, Linux says network is unreachable. How do I
> get Linux to see the network?

How have you configured the network settings on the Linux system?
("ifconfig -a" output would help)

How have you configured the network settings on the Windows system?

When you say that Windows(C)(TM)(R) "sees" the connection - what do you 
mean?

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Tue Jan 18 09:45:31 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Tue Jan 18 09:48:41 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Perl Regular Expression Help
In-Reply-To: <20050118150151.GA7645@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050118150151.GA7645@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <20050118094531.00005eee@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:01:51 -0600
"John J. Trammell" <trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 01:50:53PM -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> > Sorry for the cross post - wasn't sure what the best list to ask
> > this was.
> > 
> > I need a Perl RE to replace a specific HTML comment, something
> > like:
> > 
> > <!-- blahblahblah Josh blahblahblah -->
> > 
> > I want to remove all comments with the word Josh in it.  "Josh"
> > could be anywhere inside the comment tags.
> 
> Handling HTML with regexen is wrong, but this might get you by:
> 
>    s/<!--.*?Josh.*?-->//sg;

Actually it's XML - and I'd certainly use an XML parser module to try
to do some of this, but much of the XML is unfortunately invalid by
the Perl parsers I've tried (duplicate attributes, etc.) to load these
docs into.  Unfortunately I don't control the XML content either...  

Regardless, the above regex is a little too greedy, despite the .*? -
for example it matches the entire string:

<!-- Comment 1 -->Content<!-- Comment which includes Josh -->

I'm having a little luck with lookahead assertions, but still don't
quite have it right.

Josh

From mcnixon at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 10:23:38 2005
From: mcnixon at gmail.com (Mike Nixon)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:28:36 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
Message-ID: <aae8eb5705011808234e147f0d@mail.gmail.com>

My first guess would be that Windows XP Home has a the built in
software firewall on so its ignoring the ping from linux.

Mike Nixon


On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:02:39 -0600, Nick <bellsoffreedom@animail.net> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Situation:  I have a SUSE 9.0 Linux laptop hooked up to a Windows XP
> Home Edition desktop with a cross over cable. Windows recognizes the
> connection. Linux doesn't.
> 
> Question:  When I ping, Linux says network is unreachable. How do I
> get Linux to see the network?
> 
> P.S. I'm new to lists, so if I do anything deserving of flaming,
> please tell me, don't flame. Thank you!
> 
> "Take sides. Neutrality helps the
> oppressor, never the victim."
> ~ Elie Wiesel
> 
> View my blog & artwork!
> ***********************
> http://artandprose.blogspot.com/
> Support Care2 Email: 1,400 whales may be killed this year. Take action! http://www.care2.com/go/z/17954
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 10:33:00 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:33:36 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <aae8eb5705011808234e147f0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
	<aae8eb5705011808234e147f0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f050118083318c9f414@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:23:38 -0600, Mike Nixon <mcnixon@gmail.com> wrote:
> My first guess would be that Windows XP Home has a the built in
> software firewall on so its ignoring the ping from linux.

I concur - make sure that you 1) turn off the XP firewall or 2) enable ICMP.

From rick at eworld3.net  Tue Jan 18 10:37:57 2005
From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:38:36 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <ace41e705011714532a456f58@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com> <41E87A8D.90703@visi.com>
	<ace41e705011714532a456f58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41ED3B65.6090000@eworld3.net>



slushpupie@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:06:05 -0600, Sam MacDonald <smac@visi.com> wrote:
> 
>>I have kids so having a phone in the house at all times is important.
>>Qwest is more expensive when you don't have a phone line ($33.00)
> 
> 
> Something for people to remember when doing VoIP phones is that 911
> services is not supported in all areas yet. I think most of the twin
> cities area is, though.  For some people this isnt a concern- but if
> you have kids in your house, you want them to be able to dial 911 and
> have it work when they need it (hopfully they never will- I never did)
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
This is a pretty important point for people to know. Here's a quote from
http://vonage.com/features.php?feature=911

"Your Call Will Go To A General Access Line at the Public Safety 
Answering Point (PSAP). This is different from the 911 Emergency 
Response Center where traditional 911 calls go.

     * This means your call goes to a different phone number than 
traditional 911 calls. Also, you will need to state the nature of your 
emergency promptly and clearly, including your location and telephone 
number, as Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) personnel will NOT have 
this information on hand."

A few years ago I sat with my friend at the MECC (Minneapolis Emergency 
Communication Center), he's a 911 operator there. They have several 
people staffing the emergency 911 lines and maybe one person on the 
non-emergency line. There seemed to be a significant difference in the 
resources that these to operators had immediately available to them. 
What it comes down to is: if you call 911 using Vonage "you will need to 
state the nature of your emergency promptly and clearly, including your 
location and telephone number" so that they can *transfer* *your* *call* 
to the emergency 911 operators. In an emergency, seconds count and this 
delay may be a minute or more.
-- 
Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Jan 18 10:52:15 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:53:36 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501181652.j0IGqFX13811@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Netgear WGR614 802.11b/g Router

For sale, a "just like new" Netgear WGR614 wireless b/g router.  

Works great...$30 firm.  Pick up only...I live in Saint Louis Park.

Email sk3tch at sk3tch dot net.  Thanks!

Seller Email address: sk3tch at sk3tch dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Tue Jan 18 10:45:54 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:53:46 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <aae8eb5705011808234e147f0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
	<aae8eb5705011808234e147f0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41ED3D42.9020003@comcast.net>

Mike Nixon wrote:

>My first guess would be that Windows XP Home has a the built in
>software firewall on so its ignoring the ping from linux.
>
>Mike Nixon
>
>
>  
>
The Microsoft firewall on Windows XP is installed IF you did the SP2 
update.  I can be turned off for testing in the Control Panel, using the 
"Shield" icon.

Jerry W


From dru at druswanderings.net  Tue Jan 18 10:57:28 2005
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:58:37 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f050118083318c9f414@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>	<aae8eb5705011808234e147f0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f050118083318c9f414@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41ED3FF8.7080307@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Erik Anderson wrote:
| On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:23:38 -0600, Mike Nixon <mcnixon@gmail.com> wrote:
|
|>My first guess would be that Windows XP Home has a the built in
|>software firewall on so its ignoring the ping from linux.
|
|
| I concur - make sure that you 1) turn off the XP firewall or 2) enable ICMP.

I don't concur.

The "network unreachable" message tells me that the NIC on the linux box isn't
set up correctly.  If it were a firewall issue the pings would be rejected by
the firewall or be silently dropped.  Either way you wouldn't get that message.

I would look to the linux box for the issue.  Make sure you can ping the IP of
the linux box from the linux box itself (not 127.0.0.1).  If you still get the
network unreachable message then there is definitely and issue with the linux
network setup.

- --
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFB7T/4iwhv4FBqkV8RAuDlAJ4zw7R59fqV05H1AlZ6oMw82JxZDACffLLb
EitzWqMM1t2h8yURIitdohc=
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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Tue Jan 18 10:53:29 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:05:52 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Perl Regular Expression Help
In-Reply-To: <20050118094531.00005eee@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050117135053.00004a4d@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050118150151.GA7645@mail.el-swifto.com>
	<20050118094531.00005eee@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <20050118165329.GA10896@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 09:45:31AM -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote:
[snip]
> Regardless, the above regex is a little too greedy, despite the .*? -
> for example it matches the entire string:
> 
> <!-- Comment 1 -->Content<!-- Comment which includes Josh -->

Right, thanks for the clarification.  How about this:

  s/(<!--(.*?)-->)/ index($2,'Josh') > -1 ? '' : $1 /esg;

Which should select or reject individual comments based on their
contents.

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

From thurianknight at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 11:50:57 2005
From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:53:11 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
Message-ID: <7bdea6e305011809504af92ed3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:02:39 -0600, Nick <bellsoffreedom@animail.net> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Situation:  I have a SUSE 9.0 Linux laptop hooked up to a Windows XP
> Home Edition desktop with a cross over cable. Windows recognizes the
> connection. Linux doesn't.
> 
> Question:  When I ping, Linux says network is unreachable. How do I
> get Linux to see the network?

"Network unreachable" usually means that you have a routing error. In
other words, the system can't figure out how to locate the network
address you are trying to reach. Do you have a default gateway setup?
I know you don't technically need a gateway since the machines are on
the same subnet, but I have seen similar issues where adding the
gateway fixed it.

-- 
Dave Sherman
MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
[Insert witty .sig here.]

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Jan 18 15:10:37 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue Jan 18 15:20:35 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501182110.j0ILAbd20688@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Rackmount hubs

I have 4 rackmount hubs for free.

3 - 16 10BaseT ports, with AUI and BNC connectors.

1 - SMC3512TP, 12 10BaseT ports, 2 AUI and 1 BNC connectors.

All work last I checked them.

Seller Email address: james_masters at comcast dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From auditodd at comcast.net  Wed Jan 19 13:06:25 2005
From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:08:46 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Networking - Linux 2 Win
In-Reply-To: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
References: <72A4DD44DFD12A84FBA03BDF0F796727@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
Message-ID: <41EEAFB1.8060601@comcast.net>

If you have applied Windows XP Service Pack 2 to the Windows machine, 
then most likely the "new" built in Windows Firewall is blocking the 
ping request.

You can either choose to completely disable the firewall, or simply go 
into the firewall and allow "printer and file shareing", this should 
allow ping requests to be returned.

Quite frankly, if you Windows machine is sitting behind a good Linux 
firewall, then I would turn off the Windows firewall completely. Go to 
the Start menu, then Control Panel, and in the Control Panel, look for 
"Security Center". This will open yet another new window where you can 
choose to turn off the Windows Firewall. Be fore warned that once you 
turn off the Windows firewall, each time you reboot you will get a popup 
telling you that your Windows computer is not secure (big news flash 
there). In that same "Security Center" window, there is an option on the 
left side, should be the bottom option, something to the effect of 
"modify how windows security center notifies me". Left click on that to 
open yet another new window and in that window uncheck all the 
notification options. Good bye silly popup messages.

Hope this helps. If anyone needs some quick answers on the Windows 
Firewall after SP2, give me a shout, I've had to deal with it at work 
for the last month or so (plus a couple months testing it to work in our 
environment).

Todd Young

Nick wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Situation:  I have a SUSE 9.0 Linux laptop hooked up to a Windows XP 
> Home Edition desktop with a cross over cable. Windows recognizes the 
> connection. Linux doesn't.
> 
> Question:  When I ping, Linux says network is unreachable. How do I 
> get Linux to see the network? 
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm new to lists, so if I do anything deserving of flaming, 
> please tell me, don't flame. Thank you!
> 
> 
> ?Take sides. Neutrality helps the 
> oppressor, never the victim.?
> ~ Elie Wiesel
> 
> View my blog & artwork!
> ***********************
> http://artandprose.blogspot.com/
> Support Care2 Email: 1,400 whales may be killed this year. Take action! http://www.care2.com/go/z/17954
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list mailing list
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 

-- 
Todd Young

From auditodd at comcast.net  Wed Jan 19 13:10:50 2005
From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:15:38 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Need a LaserJet printer for your home office?
Message-ID: <41EEB0BA.3040105@comcast.net>

Smith Micro is having their bi-weekly auction this week.
I was going to post this yesterday, but dislocated my shoulder yesterday 
and spent most of the afternoon in the emergency room waiting to get it 
put back into it's socket.

Anyway, check out the auction at:
http://www.smithmicrotech.com/auction/shop.html

They have other equipment as well, not just printers.

I'm very happy with the HP LJ5si I won in their last auction.
-- 
Todd Young


From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 13:58:14 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:58:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Need a LaserJet printer for your home office?
In-Reply-To: <41EEB0BA.3040105@comcast.net>
References: <41EEB0BA.3040105@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <65293fcc050119115826d15297@mail.gmail.com>

Have have won several auctions at Smith  Micro tech and would second
the recommendation.

Stellar service - I've even picked up other items when I've went to
pick up my auction lots - I needed a handful of Keyboards and mice
once - they let me have some for a few bucks




On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:10:50 -0600, Todd Young <auditodd@comcast.net> wrote:
> Smith Micro is having their bi-weekly auction this week.
> I was going to post this yesterday, but dislocated my shoulder yesterday
> and spent most of the afternoon in the emergency room waiting to get it
> put back into it's socket.
> 
> Anyway, check out the auction at:
> http://www.smithmicrotech.com/auction/shop.html
> 
> They have other equipment as well, not just printers.
> 
> I'm very happy with the HP LJ5si I won in their last auction.
> --
> Todd Young
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From twakefield at stcloudstate.edu  Wed Jan 19 15:08:27 2005
From: twakefield at stcloudstate.edu (Wakefield, Thad M.)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:08:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] apt-get remove confusion
Message-ID: <4F752E686C8E04449DCB9FA7C3BD96747A6C7E@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu>

When apt-get upgrade wanted to download 100M,
I noticed there were packages I don't need.
When I tried to remove them with apt-get remove, it
wanted to remove additional packages. For example:

  # apt-get -s remove atlantik
  The following packages will be REMOVED:
    atlantik atlantikdesigner kde kde-amusements kdeaddons kdegames

I assume there are other programs that depend on kde.
Google and Debian docs didn't clear up the confusion.
Additional test commands didn't help.

  # apt-get -s remove atlantikdesigner
  The following packages will be REMOVED:
    atlantikdesigner kde kdeaddons
  # apt-get -s remove kde
  The following packages will be REMOVED:
    kde
  # apt-get -s remove kfax
  ...
  203 upgraded, 23 newly installed, 4 to remove and 153 not upgraded.


>From the above it appears apt will let me remove kde.
The kfax remove is thoroughly confusing.

Is there a command that shows package dependencies?
Is there a way to remove a single package?
Any clarification will be appreciated.

Thanks 

Thad

From josh at joshwelch.com  Wed Jan 19 15:10:21 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:13:59 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] OT : Cisco 6xx Console Cable
Message-ID: <20050119151020.fvyeby01c17o0go0@moose.joshwelch.com>

If anyone can tell me where I can hook up with a console cable for a 678 DSL
modem on the west side of the city, ping me off list.

Thanks,
Josh


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Jan 19 15:32:51 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:33:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
Message-ID: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

Hi,

I don't like it but I need to have a user who has a lot of secondary
groups.  Is there a limit to the number of secondary groups a user can
have?  Manning didn't seem to indicate any limit and unless my google
fung-fu is couldn't find any indication of a limit. 

Thanks,

Josh

From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 15:46:09 2005
From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:48:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <be0800f805011913467c02af2a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:32:51 -0600, Josh Trutwin
<josh@trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I don't like it but I need to have a user who has a lot of secondary
> groups.  Is there a limit to the number of secondary groups a user can
> have?  Manning didn't seem to indicate any limit and unless my google
> fung-fu is couldn't find any indication of a limit.
> 

If there is, I am pretty sure it is theoretical....

-- 
Loren H. Burlingame <loren@lhb.name>
GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
   -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock)

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Jan 19 15:54:41 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:58:37 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:32:51 -0600
Josh Trutwin <josh@trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't like it but I need to have a user who has a lot of secondary
> groups.  Is there a limit to the number of secondary groups a user
> can have?  Manning didn't seem to indicate any limit and unless my
> google fung-fu is couldn't find any indication of a limit. 

Looks like it's 32 for the max - guess I'll need to re-architect this
afterall.  erg....

Josh

From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu  Wed Jan 19 16:57:47 2005
From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Wed Jan 19 16:58:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] apt-get remove confusion
In-Reply-To: <4F752E686C8E04449DCB9FA7C3BD96747A6C7E@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu>
References: <4F752E686C8E04449DCB9FA7C3BD96747A6C7E@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu>
Message-ID: <20050119165747.A5919@pchelka.space.umn.edu>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 03:08:27PM -0600, Wakefield, Thad M. wrote:
> When apt-get upgrade wanted to download 100M,
> I noticed there were packages I don't need.
> When I tried to remove them with apt-get remove, it
> wanted to remove additional packages. For example:
> 
>   # apt-get -s remove atlantik
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
>     atlantik atlantikdesigner kde kde-amusements kdeaddons kdegames

This is probably fine.

> I assume there are other programs that depend on kde.
> Google and Debian docs didn't clear up the confusion.
> Additional test commands didn't help.

The trick here is that the kde package is what's called a meta
package.  It doesn't contain anything itself, but it depends on
most of the rest of KDE. So if you install kde, then you
automatically install most of KDE, which is probably more than
you need.
 
>   # apt-get -s remove atlantikdesigner
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
>     atlantikdesigner kde kdeaddons
>   # apt-get -s remove kde
>   The following packages will be REMOVED:
>     kde
>   # apt-get -s remove kfax
>   ...
>   203 upgraded, 23 newly installed, 4 to remove and 153 not upgraded.
> 
> 
> >From the above it appears apt will let me remove kde.

That's ok.  Nothing should depend on the kde package, though many
packages depend on, for example, kdebase

> The kfax remove is thoroughly confusing.

I am not sure what's going on there.
 
> Is there a command that shows package dependencies?

apt-cache is a good command to find out dependencies, as well as
other info about a package. Start with apt-cache show kde

> Is there a way to remove a single package?

Yes, you can remove single packages with dpkg.  In your case here
you would need to add force options to get it to remove
atlantikdesigner.  I wouldn't recommend forcing removal unless
you are sure of what you are doing.  You are likely to break
package.  Just go a head and apt-get remove atlantikdesigner,
unless you use something in kdeaddons.


> Any clarification will be appreciated.

HTH

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |

From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Jan 19 17:28:20 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:28:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Listserver migration complete
Message-ID: <20050119232819.GA12299@real-time.com>

The listserver migration is complete.

Please email tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org with any issues, especially broken
links.

Thanks.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
http://www.linuxjustworks.com             | Linux Just Works!         
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Jan 19 18:14:54 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed Jan 19 18:18:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>

Josh Trutwin wrote:
> Looks like it's 32 for the max - guess I'll need to re-architect this
> afterall.  erg....

What's the reference?
-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Jan 19 20:19:06 2005
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed Jan 19 20:23:50 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] apt-get remove confusion
In-Reply-To: <20050119165747.A5919@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
References: <4F752E686C8E04449DCB9FA7C3BD96747A6C7E@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu>
	<20050119165747.A5919@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20050120021906.GF30005@sherohman.org>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 04:57:47PM -0600, Jim Crumley wrote:
> > Is there a command that shows package dependencies?
> 
> apt-cache is a good command to find out dependencies, as well as
> other info about a package. Start with apt-cache show kde

Actually, if you're only interested in dependencies, you can use
apt-cache depends instead:

~$ apt-cache depends perl
perl
  Depends: perl-base
  Depends: perl-modules
  Depends: libc6
  Depends: libdb2
  Depends: libgdbmg1
  Suggests: perl-doc
  Suggests: libterm-readline-perl-perl
  Conflicts: perl-5.004
  Conflicts: perl-5.005
  Conflicts: perl-5.6
  Replaces: perl-5.005
  Replaces: perl-5.6
  Replaces: perl-doc

(kde has a _much_ longer list of dependencies...)

-- 
The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the
White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that
we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened.
  - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html)

From florin at iucha.net  Wed Jan 19 22:13:54 2005
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed Jan 19 22:18:50 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <20050120041354.GA26607@iucha.net>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 06:14:54PM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Josh Trutwin wrote:
> > Looks like it's 32 for the max - guess I'll need to re-architect this
> > afterall.  erg....
> 
> What's the reference?

   /usr/include/linux/limits.h

There are patches floating around LKML to allow increasing the number
dynamically but I do not remember receiving a positive response.

Cheers,
florin

-- 

Don't question authority: they don't know either!
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From seg at haxxed.com  Wed Jan 19 23:51:34 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Wed Jan 19 23:57:02 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
In-Reply-To: <1105545260.2006.14.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
References: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
	<1105543992.5494.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1105545260.2006.14.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <1106200294.31911.2.camel@bigtime>

> I believe that the Exchange tab is for connecting to Microsoft
> Exchange, which is useful in corporate networks, but pretty useless at
> home.

If you're not actually connecting to an Exchange server, uninstall the
exchange connector package. That will get rid of at least one useless
screen space eating button.


From seg at haxxed.com  Thu Jan 20 00:47:16 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Thu Jan 20 00:48:52 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] Anyone tried Evolution 2.x?
In-Reply-To: <1105544169.41e543e9a9c20@my.visi.com>
References: <1105538010.2006.5.camel@mn65-eggplant.htc.honeywell.com>
	<1105544169.41e543e9a9c20@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1106203636.31911.45.camel@bigtime>

Yes, the shortcut bar has been replaced by a bunch of huge ugly space
wasting buttons that you can't seem to turn off, in Evolution's
continuing quest to follow Microsoft's lead in innovating new and
shittier user interfaces as exactly as possible.

Whoever it is at microsoft who invented the "activity center" approach
to UI design needs to be dragged out into the street and shot, and then
have their corpse dismembered and desecrated.

Separating out the functions instead of having them all in one
unmanageable tree was a great idea. Using a pile of ugly buttons the
size of a barn to switch them was not. They're HUGE. They take up over a
third of the available vertical space on an 800x600 screen! With tiny
fonts! Thats a huge amount of screen real estate taken up by a
relatively trivial feature. And no, not everyone has a 19 inch 1600x1200
LCD panel and good eyesight. Lots of people, especially those in the
corporate offices that Evolution is supposedly ment for, are running at
1024x768 at BEST, with big fonts, on aging blurry old hand-me-down 14in
monitors, and are over the age of 30. If your solution is to get a
better monitor, I don't want to hear it.

It doesn't even make sense conceptually. Its a big box of buttons. Tabs
along the top of the tree would make more sense. Or a popup menu. Or
icons on the toolbar. There's no reason to eat up so much goddamn space.

It at the very least should be optional. If you have nice big monitors
and want huge Fisher Price "My First Outlook Clone" buttons, so be it.
But I don't want 'em.

(This has been another Lerwick misdirected axe grinding rant.)


From seg at haxxed.com  Thu Jan 20 03:09:42 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Thu Jan 20 03:13:52 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community
	maintained web site (using plone)
In-Reply-To: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <1106212182.31911.93.camel@bigtime>

Yeah I'm way behind, but this has to be said.

Yes indeed Plone is a total failure, not TCLUG. It looks like you took
the site down already, but I remember looking at it not so long ago, and
it was running on Plone 1.0, with no useful extensions installed.

Why didn't it have any useful features? Because there are none!

The Plone development team is/was a total failure. Plone 1.0 was a
glimpse of what could be possible, but in reality it was completely
useless to anyone but Zope gurus who are able to hack the hell out of it
to make even minimally useful. Mind you, the selling point of Plone is
its supposed to be useable by completely non-technical users...

The developers knew this. What did they do? They told everyone to just
use CVS! Its much better! Which it was, but they left Plone 1.0 hanging
as the only official release, completely unsupported and buggy as hell,
for way too long. Unsupported by the Plone team itself, and unsupported
by third parties because they moved all their code to work with the CVS
version and didn't even try making it work with 1.0. Because 1.0 totally
blew.

They didn't even so much as release some "1.9333alpha" versions. This
discourages non-developers from touching it. And discourages
distributions from packaging it.
 
And Debian is a complete failure as usual for taking nearly a YEAR to
get 2.0 into UNSTABLE, yet they have Zope packages that are terrible and
don't even work out of the box in testing...

Basically, Plone was WAY too overhyped as being the ultimate user
friendly CMF even your grandmother could use, long before it was even
close to being ready to be used by anyone but Zope gurus. They should
have released 1.0 as an ALPHA PREVIEW and 2.0 should have been 1.0. ;P

Try again with 2.0? I've been hosting some sites on 2.0 for a while now.
Just a few days ago I upgraded to the new Debian unstable packages, and
moved one of my sites to Zope 2.7. 2.7 is laid out much better that 2.6
was, and actually sets up an instance and works right out of the box. It
looks like Zope/Plone is finally getting close to being the easy to use
turnkey solution it claims to be...

The extensions out there are still kind of terrible. Is there a Forum
that doesn't suck? CMFBoard is the only actively developed one I've been
able to find, and its still a bit buggy and lacks such essential
features as being able to move topics to different forums...


From seg at haxxed.com  Thu Jan 20 03:28:37 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Thu Jan 20 03:28:53 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] apt-get remove confusion
In-Reply-To: <20050119165747.A5919@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
References: <4F752E686C8E04449DCB9FA7C3BD96747A6C7E@EXCHANGE.campus.stcloudstate.edu>
	<20050119165747.A5919@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1106213317.31911.103.camel@bigtime>

Use aptitude. It will allow you to visually browse all packages, read
descriptions, (You would be able to see that kde is a virtual
package...) and easily follow the dependencies around and see whats
going on. Its served me well in untangling bizzare dependency problems.

And it has the apparently unique feature of tracking which packages
you've specifically asked to install, and those that were installed to
fill a dependency. It'll ask you if you want to remove the packages when
they are no longer depended upon, which helps combat cruft.

I use aptitude exclusively. Even on Fedora...

Or maybe try Synaptic if you want GUI


From seg at haxxed.com  Thu Jan 20 04:08:53 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Thu Jan 20 04:08:53 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
Message-ID: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>

Oh dear god the new list seems to be reply-to-author by default?

Oh well, breaking tradition and user expectations in the name of
correctness is the right thing to do.

Mailing lists are still an immense outdated kludge. Now if only NNTP
allowed server side state. Or IMAP clients allowed you to easily post a
message into a folder without replying to something. Sigh, so many ways
to get it almost but not quite right... What the world needs is...

Citadel/UX! http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/

Which I have packaged here: http://www.haxxed.com/rpms/


From poptix at poptix.net  Thu Jan 20 04:18:39 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Thu Jan 20 04:23:53 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050120101839.GD23515@momentum.poptix.net>

Don't worry, we'll all start using reply-to-all so that you can get
five copies of the message, along with the copy that hits the list.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 04:08:53AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> Oh dear god the new list seems to be reply-to-author by default?
> 
> Oh well, breaking tradition and user expectations in the name of
> correctness is the right thing to do.
> 
> Mailing lists are still an immense outdated kludge. Now if only NNTP
> allowed server side state. Or IMAP clients allowed you to easily post a
> message into a folder without replying to something. Sigh, so many ways
> to get it almost but not quite right... What the world needs is...
> 
> 
-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

From adam at whee.org  Thu Jan 20 07:28:08 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Thu Jan 20 07:43:55 2005
Subject: Now OT Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501200707260.4996@titan>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Callum Lerwick wrote:

> Citadel/UX! http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/

So...

TCLUG> .e<nter> r<oom> tclug-general
TCLUG> r<ead>

Is better?  (My Cit might be a bit rusty, it's been more than a few years)

Make sure you turn on paranoid login mode for this group...

ObCitadel Story...
My buddy had just setup his new Cit board, it was day 1.  Caller was 
on-line, poking around.  Taking too long I guess.  My friend decided he 
wanted to sync up with the local Cit net at that very moment, and asks me 
"okay, how do I kick him off so I can use the modem?"  I shrugged - I was 
an RA-Pro guy.  So he walks over to the modem, 
"CALL...BACK...<yank>...LATER!" and yanks the power cord out of the poor 
little Microcom 2400.  Now THAT is something you don't learn in SysOp 101.

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 07:52:49 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 07:53:55 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050120075249.000014eb@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 04:08:53 -0600
Callum Lerwick <seg@haxxed.com> wrote:

> Oh dear god the new list seems to be reply-to-author by default?

<snip>

My client (sylpheed-claws) does reply-to-list when it notices the
email is from a ML - doesn't Evolution do that?  Maybe there's a
config setting for this somewhere?

> Mailing lists are still an immense outdated kludge. 

I don't mind them too much, this one certainly has been helpful. 
Email is misused for so many things, but I think ML's still have
plenty of value.

Josh

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 07:56:21 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 07:58:54 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:14:54 -0600
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net> wrote:

> Josh Trutwin wrote:
> > Looks like it's 32 for the max - guess I'll need to re-architect
> > this afterall.  erg....
> 
> What's the reference?

I don't have a URL, I just tried adding secondary groups until it
croaked with a message that the max was 32.

As posted by Florin:

/usr/include/linux> more limits.h 
#ifndef _LINUX_LIMITS_H
#define _LINUX_LIMITS_H

#define NR_OPEN         1024

#define NGROUPS_MAX       32    /* supplemental group IDs are
available */
        ^^^^^^^^^^^       ^^
<snip>

Josh

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 08:16:15 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:18:55 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community
	maintained web site (using plone)
In-Reply-To: <1106212182.31911.93.camel@bigtime>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<1106212182.31911.93.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050120081615.000035e7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:09:42 -0600
Callum Lerwick <seg@haxxed.com> wrote:

> The Plone development team is/was a total failure. Plone 1.0 was a
> glimpse of what could be possible, but in reality it was completely
> useless to anyone but Zope gurus who are able to hack the hell out
> of it to make even minimally useful. Mind you, the selling point of
> Plone is its supposed to be useable by completely non-technical
> users...

Heh - my first gig as an independant contractor was at a place in
Champlain that used Zope/Plone to host about 2 dozen CMS sites.  I was
to create a new Plone Product for a digital library with a MySQL
backend.  It was interesting, but not a very nice learning curve (plus
I don't pride myself in Python programming skills).  Thankfully I had
one of the Plone gurus who worked in the office at the time hold my
hand through the entire process.  
<snip rants> :)

> And Debian is a complete failure as usual for taking nearly a YEAR
> to get 2.0 into UNSTABLE, yet they have Zope packages that are
> terrible and don't even work out of the box in testing...

For these kinds of tools I always do a source build instead - which I
must say in Zope 2.7 has been improved quite a bit since 2.4/2.5 - I
was able to install Zope 2.7 / Plone 2.0.5 in a fairly short amount of
time recently without incident.  Plone install is simply untarring and
copying to the Products directory.  I'm pretty much a Slackware
convert now though so I don't mind this type of administration.  :)

<snip more rants> :)

> The extensions out there are still kind of terrible. Is there a
> Forum that doesn't suck? CMFBoard is the only actively developed one
> I've been able to find, and its still a bit buggy and lacks such
> essential features as being able to move topics to different
> forums...

I think Zope has this problem in general, products are not well
maintained or do not cooperate with other products very well.  I tried
to install the Plone Collector product recently, but that required
upgrading the Archetypes package, which when I tried to upgrade that
caused havoc everywhere else.  No notes in any Changelog about
required package dependancies.  DLL-hell in Zope!  Documentation on
many products is an absolute joke.  Some Zope developers do a decent
job, but many do not.  Documentation in general on the Zope site is
putrid (except for the books).  Too many stale user contributed
"HOWTOs" show up in the search engine, many of which are too outdated
to be reliable.  

I always think someday I'll give Zope/Plone a longer look, but I just
can't bring myself to trust its stability/maturity to make this leap.

Now I'm ranting!

Josh

From sfertch at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 08:19:31 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:20:43 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
	<20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <67f3084a050120061965e03684@mail.gmail.com>

Out of curiosity, why the necessity to have so many groups?  

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 08:33:03 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:33:56 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a050120061965e03684@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
	<20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<67f3084a050120061965e03684@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050120083303.00005899@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:19:31 -0600
Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com> wrote:

> Out of curiosity, why the necessity to have so many groups? 

Long story - mainly to bandaid a problem that I should have saw coming
when I started virtual hosting a long time ago.  I've decided that the
right course of action is to redo my directory structure which keeps
web content and email messages for hosts under the same parent
directory.  Not a good idea in hindsite, permissions are not easy to
manage so I was trying to use secondary groups in a clever way to get
around this. 

Josh

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 08:28:40 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:34:03 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] SMTP Protocol Question
Message-ID: <20050120082840.00001af6@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

Not really a Linux question, but certainly not off-topic I hope.

I had one of my email users complain about getting rejection notices -
looking at the original email I notice:

To: <'removed@hotmail.com'>

I think this should be:

To: 'Some name' <removed@hotmail.com>

or just:

To: <removed@hotmail.com>

It looks as if the email addresses are in the Name field in her
address book (Outhouse client). 

I tried finding it in the RFC, but I believe the single quotes around
the email address are not legal right?  My MTA (qmail) is trying to
send a message to @hotmail.com' - which obviously doesn't exist with
the single quote at the end.

Josh

From softel at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 13:23:22 2005
From: softel at yahoo.com (James Lund)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:57:49 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Tecnical Book Stores
Message-ID: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, being new to the area, I was wondering if
anyone could recommend a book store that has a nice
selection of programming books?  The B&N here in Apple
Valley is perhaps a little sparse.  I am willing to
travel anywhere in the twin cities.

Thanks,
James


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

From esper at sherohman.org  Thu Jan 20 08:57:23 2005
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:58:56 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>

On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 04:08:53AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> Oh dear god the new list seems to be reply-to-author by default?

*resisting the urge to start yet another reply-to-list-considered-
(harmful|helpful) argument*

Suffice to say that, while it may not be following your preference,
it is following the preference of many other people.  I doubt there
will ever be agreement on this one until all MUAs have separate reply
to sender/reply to list/reply to all functions - and even that won't
make it go away completely.

> Mailing lists are still an immense outdated kludge.

How so?  In what ways do you consider them to be flawed/kludgy?  I've
never really had any problems with them as a user and, as a list
admin/moderator, the only thing that comes to mind is all the people
who ask me to (un)subscribe them even when the instructions on how to
(un)subscribe themselves are staring them in the face.

-- 
The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the
White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that
we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened.
  - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html)

From blawrence at qwest.net  Thu Jan 20 09:26:19 2005
From: blawrence at qwest.net (blawrence@qwest.net)
Date: Thu Jan 20 09:28:59 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Tecnical Book Stores
Message-ID: <259810-220051420152619479@M2W077.mail2web.com>

James,

The largest Barnes & Noble store in the Twin Cities is located in Roseville
in the Har Mar Mall. Another good location is Micro Center on Hwy 100 and
36th Street in St. Louis Park.

Brian

Original Message:
-----------------
From: James Lund softel@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:23:22 -0800 (PST)
To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Tecnical Book Stores


Hello, being new to the area, I was wondering if
anyone could recommend a book store that has a nice
selection of programming books?  The B&N here in Apple
Valley is perhaps a little sparse.  I am willing to
travel anywhere in the twin cities.

Thanks,
James


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list@mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .



From strayf at freeshell.org  Thu Jan 20 09:29:23 2005
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford)
Date: Thu Jan 20 09:33:55 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Tecnical Book Stores
In-Reply-To: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050120152923.GA4682@callisto>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 11:23:22AM -0800, James Lund wrote:
> Hello, being new to the area, I was wondering if
> anyone could recommend a book store that has a nice
> selection of programming books?  The B&N here in Apple
> Valley is perhaps a little sparse.  I am willing to
> travel anywhere in the twin cities.

The Barnes & Noble in Roseville at Harmar seems to have a reasonable
selection.

-Steve

From drue at therub.org  Thu Jan 20 09:33:04 2005
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Thu Jan 20 09:40:27 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Tecnical Book Stores
In-Reply-To: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050120153304.GA79276@therub.org>

Microcenter on hwy 100 is tough to beat - and they have a super
selection of clearance books too.

http://microcenter.com/at_the_stores/st_louis_park.html

hehe, I had a /sweet/ physics teacher in high school named James Lund..
:)

dan

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 11:23:22AM -0800, James Lund wrote:
> Hello, being new to the area, I was wondering if
> anyone could recommend a book store that has a nice
> selection of programming books?  The B&N here in Apple
> Valley is perhaps a little sparse.  I am willing to
> travel anywhere in the twin cities.
> 
> Thanks,
> James
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From stutterstutt at comcast.net  Thu Jan 20 09:37:21 2005
From: stutterstutt at comcast.net (Jeff Nelson)
Date: Thu Jan 20 09:41:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Tecnical Book Stores
In-Reply-To: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050119192323.67236.qmail@web30010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41EFD031.9080206@comcast.net>

MicroCenter in St. Louis Park has a good selection (relatively speaking) 
of technical books. Go to www.microcenter.com for hours and directions.

-Jeff

James Lund wrote:

>Hello, being new to the area, I was wondering if
>anyone could recommend a book store that has a nice
>selection of programming books?  The B&N here in Apple
>Valley is perhaps a little sparse.  I am willing to
>travel anywhere in the twin cities.
>
>Thanks,
>James
>
>
>		
>__________________________________ 
>Do you Yahoo!? 
>Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>  
>



From adam at whee.org  Thu Jan 20 09:28:13 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Thu Jan 20 09:52:40 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] SMTP Protocol Question
In-Reply-To: <20050120082840.00001af6@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050120082840.00001af6@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501200909571.6253@titan>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote:

> It looks as if the email addresses are in the Name field in her
> address book (Outhouse client).

Yup, I'm sure Outlook messed with it.  I've seen various other munges of 
address formats in people's address books too.

>
> I tried finding it in the RFC, but I believe the single quotes around
> the email address are not legal right?  My MTA (qmail) is trying to
> send a message to @hotmail.com' - which obviously doesn't exist with
> the single quote at the end.

Yeah, not the friendliest description in the RFC:

...
<mailbox> ::= <local-part> "@" <domain>
<local-part> ::= <dot-string> | <quoted-string>
<dot-string> ::= <string> | <string> "." <dot-string>
<string> ::= <char> | <char> <string>
<quoted-string> ::=  """ <qtext> """
<qtext> ::=  "\" <x> | "\" <x> <qtext> | <q> | <q> <qtext>
<char> ::= <c> | "\" <x>
...

Further down it mentions that <c> is any of the 1st 128 ASCII characters, 
except for the special ones.

The special characters do not include single quote.  So I would say that 
per RFC <'test'@hotmail.com> is a legal address, but the single quotes 
around test are part of the address itself, and not a quoting character. 
Of course, with the different ways the standards are implemented, mileage 
may vary on how it gets parsed at the other end.  Certainly hotmail 
wouldn't let you create such an address, so assuming it even accepted it 
and parsed it out to local delivery to account 'test' (single-quotes 
included)...

I was able to get Sendmail to do it:
echo "Test" | /usr/lib/sendmail "'test'@hotmail.com"
(double quotes added for the shell)

And I got a bounce back from Hotmail indicating that my side actually put 
the single quotes in the RCPT TO:

    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<'test'@hotmail.com>
     (reason: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable)

I setup 'test2' in aliases to point to my account, and:

telnet localhost 25
...
RCPT TO: <'test2'@whee.org>
...

And got in my mailbox:

Received: from localhost (titan [207.195.206.249])
     by titan.whee.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id j0KFOm3f006498
     for <'test2'@whee.org>; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:25:01 -0600 (CST)
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So Sendmail seems to agree with me that it is a valid address, and the 
single quotes would be considered part of the mailbox.  Allman did good.

From tanner at real-time.com  Thu Jan 20 10:37:01 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:39:27 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

So, mailing list suck?

I really prefer them, but many of the foss projects I contribute to are moving 
to web forums. Forum + RSS is just like a mailing list (imho). 

Recently my main project has moved to forums, to keep threads intact so that 
it is possible to see the whole conversation over time.

So, what do you think, move to forums? This also relates to the whole SIG 
thread awhile back, forums would lend themselves to SIGs.

Maybe both? Some sort of web forum that can gate to mailing lists?

Just throwing out ideas.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 10:48:01 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:52:28 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] SMTP Protocol Question
In-Reply-To: <ace41e705012008025171b2d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050120082840.00001af6@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<ace41e705012008025171b2d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050120104801.00003ba5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>

[replying to list for archiving purposes]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:02:47 -0600
<slushpupie@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:28:40 -0600, Josh Trutwin
> <josh@trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> > Not really a Linux question, but certainly not off-topic I hope.
> > 
> > I had one of my email users complain about getting rejection
> > notices - looking at the original email I notice:
> > 
> > To: <'removed@hotmail.com'>
> > 
> > I think this should be:
> > 
> > To: 'Some name' <removed@hotmail.com>
> > 
> > or just:
> > 
> > To: <removed@hotmail.com>
> > 
> > It looks as if the email addresses are in the Name field in her
> > address book (Outhouse client).
> > 
> > I tried finding it in the RFC, but I believe the single quotes
> > around the email address are not legal right?  My MTA (qmail) is
> > trying to send a message to @hotmail.com' - which obviously
> > doesn't exist with the single quote at the end.
> 
> You are correct.  'removed is a valid username, but hotmail.com' is
> not a valid domain.   RFC-821 and RFC-822 are what you want to look
> up.  There are two headers to pay attention to. You can have
> whatever you want in the message header (which is why spam is so
> easy to forge).  The envelope headers are important and have a
> strict syntax.  So either the MUA didnt understand what the user
> entered, or the MUA Is broken.  With outlook I think both are the
> case.

Thanks Jay, that's what I expected.  Dang Outhouse strikes again!

Josh

From natecars at real-time.com  Thu Jan 20 10:51:24 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:53:56 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501201050200.5815@conformity.technicality.org>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Bob Tanner wrote:
> So, what do you think, move to forums? This also relates to the whole
> SIG thread awhile back, forums would lend themselves to SIGs.

Please, no! With a mail list, I can take the mail with me wherever I am, 
if I have 'net access or not. A mail client is also much more responsive 
than a web client.  :)

> Maybe both? Some sort of web forum that can gate to mailing lists?

I believe we already have the forum thingy via gmane; correct me if I'm 
wrong.

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 10:55:32 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:59:12 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f05012008555597c4da@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:37:01 -0600, Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com> wrote:
> So, mailing list suck?

I don't generally think so, but as long as the general sentiment is
going that direction, I'll throw out another option...see below.

> So, what do you think, move to forums? This also relates to the whole SIG
> thread awhile back, forums would lend themselves to SIGs.

In general, I really don't like using web forums.  I much prefer nntp.
 Is that an option?

From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu  Thu Jan 20 11:11:54 2005
From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Thu Jan 20 11:13:56 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>

On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 10:37:01AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote:
> So, mailing list suck?

Yes, mailing list suck.  But web forums are *much* worse.

> I really prefer them, but many of the foss projects I contribute to are moving 
> to web forums. Forum + RSS is just like a mailing list (imho). 

Except, then your forced to deal with an RSS client. You add
complexity for no benefit.
 
> Recently my main project has moved to forums, to keep threads intact so that 
> it is possible to see the whole conversation over time.

What's wrong with list archives for this purpose?  The
layout of web interface to some archives may not be as nice as
some forums, but in that case I think the focus should be on
improving the archive.  Don't throw the baby out with the
bathwater!

> So, what do you think, move to forums? This also relates to the whole SIG 
> thread awhile back, forums would lend themselves to SIGs.

Please don't.

> Maybe both? Some sort of web forum that can gate to mailing lists?

How about an archive that allowed posting?  I can see problems
with that, but it appeals to me much more than the reverse
because as is probably clear by now, I don't like web forums. ;)

> Just throwing out ideas.

Just bouncing 'em back.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/ 
Never laugh at live dragons  |

From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu Jan 20 12:18:36 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Thu Jan 20 12:23:57 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] Complete failure on a TCLUG community
	maintained web site (using plone)
In-Reply-To: <20050120081615.000035e7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <200501031114.25522@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<1106212182.31911.93.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120081615.000035e7@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <20050120181836.GA26206@wookimus.net>

I haven't been following Zope development for some time, but I do read
posts to Python Planet and python-dev.  There is a new interface
standard called Python Web Server Gateway Interface v1.0 [1]_ that
should help with passing information between different Python servlets
and application servers.  It's a very loosely coupled interface, which
might help detangle the spaghetti code and tightly integrated
dependencies that some application servers seem to have.

For those developing with Python, you should definitely take a look at
the PEP 333.

.. [1] http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0333.html

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From seg at haxxed.com  Thu Jan 20 12:40:57 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Thu Jan 20 12:44:11 2005
Subject: Now OT Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501200707260.4996@titan>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501200707260.4996@titan>
Message-ID: <1106246457.31911.154.camel@bigtime>

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 07:28 -0600, Adam Maloney wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> 
> > Citadel/UX! http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/
> 
> So...
> 
> TCLUG> .e<nter> r<oom> tclug-general
> TCLUG> r<ead>
> 
> Is better?  (My Cit might be a bit rusty, it's been more than a few years)
>
> Make sure you turn on paranoid login mode for this group...

Ah but citadel has evolved over the past 15 years. Its now the Grand
Unified Groupware Server. It can serve IMAP and POP3, handle incoming
and outgoing SMTP, as well as gating rooms to mailing lists. Why not
have every flavor of cake and eat it too?

But the real power lies in its native protocol. Email, shared folders,
calendaring, directory service, file storage, load balancing and
replication, group chat and instant messaging all in one integrated
server, one protocol, and one TCP port. Instead of a mess of
IMAP/SMTP/HTTP/LDAP/WebDAV/FTP/IRC/Jabber.

The backend is solid, but sadly, clients for the native protocol are
lacking at the moment. Supposedly the WebCit client is going through an
overhaul to work better for email/webmail/web board style usage instead
of the BBS style UI.

And the text client is archaic by today's standards, but it works.


From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu Jan 20 13:19:54 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:23:57 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050120191954.GB26206@wookimus.net>

Callum Lerwick wrote:
> Oh dear god the new list seems to be reply-to-author by default?

YAY!

> Oh well, breaking tradition and user expectations in the name of
> correctness is the right thing to do.

*NOD*

> Mailing lists are still an immense outdated kludge. Now if only NNTP
> allowed server side state. Or IMAP clients allowed you to easily post
> a message into a folder without replying to something.

Actually, you can post something into a folder, IIRC, if you have public
folders shared/enabled.   IMAP allows for different namespaces [1]_,
including #mh, #news, #ftp, and even ~.  Theoretically, you COULD run an
IMAP server for clients that do not have publically accessible email
addresses.  Email clients assume that you want to send email through an
SMTP server, where as in fact, you could dump messages into any IMAP
folder.  The fault is in the client, not the protocol.

BRAINSTORM:  What if you had a drop-box for outgoing email on your IMAP
server.  It picks up messages and pops them over to its SMTP server for
delivery.  You wouldn't even need SMTP for your IMAP client!

In fact, tying into your following suggestion, you could create a #bbs
namespace that would be a public shared folder.

> Sigh, so many ways to get it almost but not quite right... What the
> world needs is...
> 
> Citadel/UX! http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/

Cool.  Forgot it even existed.  I'll have to take a look at it.

> Which I have packaged here: http://www.haxxed.com/rpms/

Yay.

.. [1] $ahttp://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3501.html

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From nassarmu at beitsahour.net  Thu Jan 20 14:10:27 2005
From: nassarmu at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu Jan 20 15:17:13 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050120191954.GB26206@wookimus.net>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120191954.GB26206@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <41F01033.3090600@beitsahour.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:

> BRAINSTORM:  What if you had a drop-box for outgoing email on your IMAP
> server.  It picks up messages and pops them over to its SMTP server for
> delivery.  You wouldn't even need SMTP for your IMAP client!

yawn. get with the new century old man  :)

from my courier-mta imapd config file:
##NAME: OUTBOX:0
#
# The next set of options deal with the "Outbox" enhancement.
# Uncomment the following setting to create a special folder, named
# INBOX.Outbox
#
# OUTBOX=.Outbox

##NAME: SENDMAIL:0
#
# If OUTBOX is defined, mail can be sent via the IMAP connection by copying
# a message to the INBOX.Outbox folder.  For all practical matters,
# INBOX.Outbox looks and behaves just like any other IMAP folder.  If this
# folder doesn't exist it must be created by the IMAP mail client, just
# like any other IMAP folder.  The kicker: any message copied or moved to
# this folder is will be E-mailed by the Courier-IMAP server, by running
# the SENDMAIL program.  Therefore, messages copied or moved to this
# folder must be well-formed RFC-2822 messages, with the recipient list
# specified in the To:, Cc:, and Bcc: headers.  Courier-IMAP relies on
# SENDMAIL to read the recipient list from these headers (and delete the 
Bcc:
# header) by running the command "$SENDMAIL -oi -t -f $SENDER", with the
# message piped on standard input.  $SENDER will be the return address
# of the message, which is set by the authentication module.
#
# DO NOT MODIFY SENDMAIL, below, unless you know what you're doing.
#

SENDMAIL=/usr/bin/sendmail

EOQ

This what you were looking for?

--
Munir Nassar


From slushpupie at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 15:37:00 2005
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Jan 20 15:43:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] SMTP Protocol Question
In-Reply-To: <20050120104801.00003ba5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050120082840.00001af6@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<ace41e705012008025171b2d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050120104801.00003ba5@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <ace41e705012013377f57feaf@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:48:01 -0600, Josh Trutwin
<josh@trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> [replying to list for archiving purposes]

Thanks- I had not noticed the change (or the ongoing thread about the
change) yet.

Jay

-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/

From florin at iucha.net  Thu Jan 20 20:57:23 2005
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu Jan 20 21:02:12 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
Message-ID: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>

Hello,

Last night as I was rebooting from Linux into WindowsXP, the
machine locked up (in XP). I have pressed the power button for 5
seconds and it went to sleep. For. Ever. No amount of plugging or
unplugging of various boards and cables could bring it back.

I do suspect the motherboard: an ASUS A7V600 conveniently just out of
warranty. But I have no proof ;(

I need a kind and trusty soul that has a working AMD (Socket 472) machine
and is willing to let me test my hypothesis by swapping/exchanging the power
supply and possibly the CPU. Sounds like a fun weekend project, eh?

Thank you,
florin

-- 

Don't question authority: they don't know either!
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From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Jan 20 23:11:45 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 23:12:13 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] KVM + kernel 2.6.10 = Slow Mouse
Message-ID: <20050120231145.00006b14@prokofiev>

I'm trying to build a new box using a custom 2.6.10 kernel build to
replace the distro's (slackware) 2.4.26 kernel.

Everything seems fine except for the mouse that's connected via KVM
switch.  It's extremely slow and exibits bizarre behavior when
clicking, sometimes jumping off screen, sometimes nothing.  A little
bit of googling showed me that others have similar problems, but there
still doesn't seem to be a solution that I can find.  

Has anyone out there compiled 2.6 kernels and used mice connected to a
KVM?

Thanks,

Josh

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Jan 21 07:35:02 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri Jan 21 07:37:17 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501211335.j0LDZ2F16238@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: SDRAM Motherboard

I'm having a power related problem a Soyo 7IS2 mobo and I'd like to find a comparable, but slightly better :) replacement.  I have a little over 1 GB of PC133 memory from this board and other sources, so the replacement would ideally support 1-2GB of memory, 4 slots minimum.  AMD or Intel doesn't matter - a dual CPU board would be killer.

Please contact me off list if you have a working board that fits this description and what you'd want for me to take it off your hands.

Board and CPU a must, memory optional depending on board capacity.

Thanks!

Josh Trutwin
josh@trutwins.homeip.net

Seller Email address: josh at trutwins dot homeip dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 09:12:27 2005
From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen)
Date: Fri Jan 21 09:17:21 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<200501201037.02437@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
	<20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>

What about having a gmane interface as part of the archives.  I
believe you can post without having an account already set up.

Gmane also has RSS available for any mailing list.  http://www.gmane.org

<quote>
In addition, Gmane does spam detection, cross-post handling, has a
TMDA-fueled encryption/forwarding service, a web interface, respects
X-No-Archive, supplies RSS feeds, uses SPF, features user-defined
filters, and has a real-time indexing search engine.
</quote>

Jeff Rasmussen


On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:11:54 -0600, Jim Crumley
<crumley@belka.space.umn.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 10:37:01AM -0600, Bob Tanner wrote:
> > So, mailing list suck?
> 
> Yes, mailing list suck.  But web forums are *much* worse.
> 
> > I really prefer them, but many of the foss projects I contribute to are moving
> > to web forums. Forum + RSS is just like a mailing list (imho).
> 
> Except, then your forced to deal with an RSS client. You add
> complexity for no benefit.
> 
> > Recently my main project has moved to forums, to keep threads intact so that
> > it is possible to see the whole conversation over time.
> 
> What's wrong with list archives for this purpose?  The
> layout of web interface to some archives may not be as nice as
> some forums, but in that case I think the focus should be on
> improving the archive.  Don't throw the baby out with the
> bathwater!
> 
> > So, what do you think, move to forums? This also relates to the whole SIG
> > thread awhile back, forums would lend themselves to SIGs.
> 
> Please don't.
> 
> > Maybe both? Some sort of web forum that can gate to mailing lists?
> 
> How about an archive that allowed posting?  I can see problems
> with that, but it appeals to me much more than the reverse
> because as is probably clear by now, I don't like web forums. ;)
> 
> > Just throwing out ideas.
> 
> Just bouncing 'em back.
> 
> --
> Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
> Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/
> Never laugh at live dragons  |
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
Jeff Rasmussen
GPG public key 0x9686C12F

From rick at eworld3.net  Fri Jan 21 09:27:21 2005
From: rick at eworld3.net (Rick Meyerhoff)
Date: Fri Jan 21 09:34:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
In-Reply-To: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
References: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <41F11F59.6060003@eworld3.net>

I had a similar problem several years back with a board that I got at 
General Nanosystems (It was still under warentee though). I brought it 
in to them and they did all the swapping of CPU, RAM, etc. and narrowed 
it down to the system board. They did not seem to care about anything 
but discovering the problem.

Anyway, my point is: call them or just go in and see if they will help. 
My guess is that if you go when they are not busy, like a weekday 
morning, they would be glad to spend the short time it should take to 
narrow down the problem.

Florin Iucha wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Last night as I was rebooting from Linux into WindowsXP, the
> machine locked up (in XP). I have pressed the power button for 5
> seconds and it went to sleep. For. Ever. No amount of plugging or
> unplugging of various boards and cables could bring it back.
> 
> I do suspect the motherboard: an ASUS A7V600 conveniently just out of
> warranty. But I have no proof ;(
> 
> I need a kind and trusty soul that has a working AMD (Socket 472) machine
> and is willing to let me test my hypothesis by swapping/exchanging the power
> supply and possibly the CPU. Sounds like a fun weekend project, eh?
> 
> Thank you,
> florin
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
Eric (Rick) Meyerhoff

From bgilbertson at stonel.com  Fri Jan 21 09:47:29 2005
From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson)
Date: Fri Jan 21 09:52:36 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
In-Reply-To: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
References: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <41F12411.1060508@stonel.com>

Might try unplugging a few minutes.
Also might try resetting CMOS, usually
a jumper on the board.

I had an A7V-E where the onboard Rhino
ethernet would fill up dmesg with error
messages.  Also ethernet transfers would
gradually grind to a halt.  Unplugging it
a few minutes cured it.  Been running fine
many months since.

Bob

Florin Iucha wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Last night as I was rebooting from Linux into WindowsXP, the
> machine locked up (in XP). I have pressed the power button for 5
> seconds and it went to sleep. For. Ever. No amount of plugging or
> unplugging of various boards and cables could bring it back.
> 
> I do suspect the motherboard: an ASUS A7V600 conveniently just out of
> warranty. But I have no proof ;(
> 
> I need a kind and trusty soul that has a working AMD (Socket 472) machine
> and is willing to let me test my hypothesis by swapping/exchanging the power
> supply and possibly the CPU. Sounds like a fun weekend project, eh?
> 
> Thank you,
> florin

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Fri Jan 21 10:05:43 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Fri Jan 21 10:08:37 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] KVM + kernel 2.6.10 = Slow Mouse
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0501210359550ce69b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050120231145.00006b14@prokofiev>
	<67f3084a0501210359550ce69b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050121100543.000004b2@prokofiev>

[Replying to list for archives]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:59:43 -0600
Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:11:45 -0600, Josh Trutwin
> <josh@trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone out there compiled 2.6 kernels and used mice connected
> > to a KVM?
> 
> Not with a 2.6 kernel.  But I was experiencing similar problems on
> my 2.4.26 kernel Slack box (AMD XP3200+, MSI K7N2Delta) regardless
> of if I was using the PS/2 or USB port.
> 
> Got fed up with it, removed the KVM and put it downstairs where it
> was needed more.
> 
> Be interested to hear what you come up with.

I haven't tried it out yet - too many other problems with this box to
deal with, but this link has a kernel boot param that might "fix" the
problem:

http://kerneltrap.org/node/1587?PHPSESSID=c8ad0b298644338c0084238429185344

Josh

From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 08:57:16 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Fri Jan 21 10:32:16 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Right address? 
In-Reply-To: <001701c4fcb5$9e0b0920$0439a8c0@Kurama>
Message-ID: <41f1184d.2351dce9.244f.00e7@smtp.gmail.com>

 
Did this mailing list move? 

Chris


From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 10:47:00 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri Jan 21 10:47:26 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
	<9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501211047.01146@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Friday 21 January 2005 09:12 am, Jeff Rasmussen wrote:
> What about having a gmane interface as part of the archives.  I
> believe you can post without having an account already set up.
>
> Gmane also has RSS available for any mailing list.  http://www.gmane.org

Looks like someone added some of the tclug mailing lists to gmane

tclug-announce
tclug-devel
tclug-jobs

Not sure why tclug-list isn't there, but I'm adding it today (01/21).

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 10:52:30 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri Jan 21 11:02:18 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
	<9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501211052.31862@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Friday 21 January 2005 09:12 am, Jeff Rasmussen wrote:
> What about having a gmane interface as part of the archives. ?I
> believe you can post without having an account already set up.
>
> Gmane also has RSS available for any mailing list. ?http://www.gmane.org

Bah, missed the tclug-list at gmane. It's all there.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 11:10:41 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri Jan 21 11:17:21 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
	<9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501211110.42442@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

On Friday 21 January 2005 09:12 am, Jeff Rasmussen wrote:
> Gmane also has RSS available for any mailing list. ?http://www.gmane.org

I think gmane solves lots of problems.

RSS feed for quick check of posting.
NNTP access for people who want complete thread history.
Web access for reading and potential posting.

Nice.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 11:23:29 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri Jan 21 11:35:27 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: gmane posting via NNTP gateway
Message-ID: <csrdqh$fc2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Testing gname's NNTP to mailing list gateway.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288


From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 11:46:48 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri Jan 21 11:56:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] mailman RSS feed capability?
Message-ID: <csrf68$itc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Did a quick search, but found nothing. Can mailman provide an RSS feed for
it's mailing lists?

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288


From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 11:47:35 2005
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri Jan 21 11:56:56 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] mailman RSS feeds?
Message-ID: <200501211147.36166@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>

Did a quick search, found nothing.

Can mailman provide an RSS feed?

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288

From steve at worldcycling.com  Fri Jan 21 15:06:43 2005
From: steve at worldcycling.com (Steve Linabery)
Date: Fri Jan 21 15:10:38 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] midi ports on audigy platinum, planet ccrma,
	selinux and jackd
Message-ID: <20050121210643.GY28898@steve.worldcycling.com>

Hi,

I'm goofing around with the planet ccrma packages.

I have fc3 running on a k7s5a mainboard with an audigy platinum for sound. I can't get the midi ports on the front of the whatever-they-call-it-that-sits-in-a-5.25-drive-bay device to work. The alsa driver web pages say that the front ports are unusable; I've seen other things that say you just have to send a control sequence to the device to activate them (and the IR port).

Just wondering if anyone on this list has had any success with using this card for MIDI in. After two nights of googling, I'm starting to think maybe I'll cut my (time) losses and just buy a better-supported device. Any suggestions for one of those?

On a more or less related note, the lsm module from ccrma doesn't seem to be working properly on my system. A bit of history on this system: I was running RH9, then yum upgraded to FC2, then yum upgraded to FC3. So I'm not entirely sure whether the SELinux stuff was ever installed properly...on fresh installs of FC3 I've noticed the installer program asks how you want SELinux installed...but I remember nothing like that when I yum upgraded my home system.

For example, when I try to start jackd using jackstart, it complains that capabilities are only "=ep" when they ought to be "=eip". And even when I successfully start jackd by invoking it just as jackd, apps like muse won't start and complain that they can't connect to jackd (even though everything is running under the same uid).

thanks people,
s
-- 
Steve Linabery
World Cycling Productions

From tclug at ryanorourke.org  Fri Jan 21 15:49:04 2005
From: tclug at ryanorourke.org (Ryan O'Rourke)
Date: Fri Jan 21 15:54:12 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>

Dave Sherohman wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 04:08:53AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> 
>>Oh dear god the new list seems to be reply-to-author by default?
> 
> *resisting the urge to start yet another reply-to-list-considered-
> (harmful|helpful) argument*
> 
> Suffice to say that, while it may not be following your preference,
> it is following the preference of many other people. 

Can someone please explain to me why it might be preferential to have 
the default set to reply only to an individual and not to the entire 
list?

Thanks.

-- Ryan

From natecars at real-time.com  Fri Jan 21 17:00:25 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Fri Jan 21 17:02:20 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Ryan O'Rourke wrote:
> Can someone please explain to me why it might be preferential to have
> the default set to reply only to an individual and not to the entire
> list?

I happen to think it's very broken behavior myself; but users who aren't
used to mailing lists seem to expect that when they click "Reply", it will
go to the person, and when they click "Reply All", it will go to the list.  
*shrugs*

Personally, it annoys the heck out of me to get a direct copy of the
message instead of just receiving it through the listserv. Procmail rules
on List-Id don't work very well on direct replies, after all!

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From seg at haxxed.com  Fri Jan 21 17:06:01 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Fri Jan 21 17:11:37 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <200501211052.31862@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
	<9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501211052.31862@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <1106348761.31911.168.camel@bigtime>

On Fri, 2005-01-21 at 10:52 -0600, Bob Tanner wrote:
> On Friday 21 January 2005 09:12 am, Jeff Rasmussen wrote:
> > What about having a gmane interface as part of the archives.  I
> > believe you can post without having an account already set up.
> >
> > Gmane also has RSS available for any mailing list.  http://www.gmane.org
> 
> Bah, missed the tclug-list at gmane. It's all there.

I added them a while back. I think turning on the email mangling was a
mistake though. The lists are indexed by google and such anyway, and it
tends to mangle things it shouldn't...

They want to talk to the list owner to have the archives imported... Who
is the list owner anyway?

I'm finding NNTP's lack of server side unread flags kind of a downer.
And PAN is buggy. Apparently Evolution 2 does NNTP now, I should try
using gmane again...


From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Fri Jan 21 17:38:17 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Fri Jan 21 17:42:21 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050121233817.GA29671@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 05:00:25PM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote:
> I happen to think it's very broken behavior myself; but users who
> aren't used to mailing lists seem to expect that when they click
> "Reply", it will go to the person, and when they click "Reply All", it
> will go to the list.  *shrugs*

I'm curious why this isn't configurable on a per-user basis by the
listserv software.  

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Fri Jan 21 20:17:29 2005
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Fri Jan 21 20:17:23 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
Message-ID: <20050121201729.00000377@prokofiev>

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:49:04 -0600
Ryan O'Rourke <tclug@ryanorourke.org> wrote:

> Can someone please explain to me why it might be preferential to
> have  the default set to reply only to an individual and not to the
> entire  list?

Here are two oposing views on the subject:

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

and a reply:

http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.mhtml

Any MUA worth the trouble (like mine - Sylpheed!) should recognize a
mailing list email and allow configuration of it's reply options or
automatically set the reply-to to go to the list address.

I've received three replies to my recent posts that were sent directly
to me though so I can see how this change is causing some confusion
for other members of the list.

Josh

From seg at haxxed.com  Fri Jan 21 21:18:15 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Fri Jan 21 21:25:38 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org> <41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>

> I happen to think it's very broken behavior myself; but users who aren't
> used to mailing lists seem to expect that when they click "Reply", it will
> go to the person, and when they click "Reply All", it will go to the list.  
> *shrugs*

Yes. One point of irritation is EVERY other list *I* happen to be on,
mangles reply-to. And its how the old list worked for many years. So its
deeply ingrained habit now to just be able to hit Reply, no matter how
"incorrect" it may be.

> Personally, it annoys the heck out of me to get a direct copy of the
> message instead of just receiving it through the listserv. Procmail rules
> on List-Id don't work very well on direct replies, after all!

This is the other point of irritation.

The fact that weird and annoying issues like this exist in the first
place, are the reason I think mailing lists are an ugly kludge created
to solve a problem that no longer exists.

Another reason? The bounce problem. Bob said it himself:

> A random test of 100 email address from the subscriber database came
> up with over 70%(!) of them bouncing (so much for mailman's bounce
> detection, thus why VERP is being turned on).

How much resources on how many servers are being wasted on bounces? Why
is it so tricky to detect them? Using a "push" distribution method for
many-to-many communication just isn't a great fit.

Mailing lists made sense back when everyone wasn't on the net full time,
or even directly connected to the net at all, (UUCP, FidoNet, Bitnet,
Compuserve...) but it really doesn't anymore.


From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 00:21:12 2005
From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame)
Date: Sat Jan 22 00:22:23 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
In-Reply-To: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
References: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <be0800f80501212221461d3ebb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:57:23 -0600, Florin Iucha <florin@iucha.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Last night as I was rebooting from Linux into WindowsXP, the
> machine locked up (in XP). I have pressed the power button for 5
> seconds and it went to sleep. For. Ever. No amount of plugging or
> unplugging of various boards and cables could bring it back.
> 
> I do suspect the motherboard: an ASUS A7V600 conveniently just out of
> warranty. But I have no proof ;(
> 
> I need a kind and trusty soul that has a working AMD (Socket 472) machine
> and is willing to let me test my hypothesis by swapping/exchanging the power
> supply and possibly the CPU. Sounds like a fun weekend project, eh?
> 
> Thank you,
> florin
> 

I am assuming you tried removing all unnecessary hardware from the
system and booting?

-- 
Loren H. Burlingame <loren@lhb.name>
GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
   -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock)

From florin at iucha.net  Sat Jan 22 00:45:39 2005
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sat Jan 22 00:47:25 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
In-Reply-To: <be0800f80501212221461d3ebb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
	<be0800f80501212221461d3ebb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050122064539.GC7345@iucha.net>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 12:21:12AM -0600, Loren H. Burlingame wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:57:23 -0600, Florin Iucha <florin@iucha.net> wrote:
> > Last night as I was rebooting from Linux into WindowsXP, the
> > machine locked up (in XP). I have pressed the power button for 5
> > seconds and it went to sleep. For. Ever. No amount of plugging or
> > unplugging of various boards and cables could bring it back.
>
> I am assuming you tried removing all unnecessary hardware from the
> system and booting?

Yup.

I will haul it to nanosys~1 tomorrow and use their PSU tester
and motherboards and patience to isolate the problem and replace the
faulty component.

florin

-- 

Don't question authority: they don't know either!
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Sat Jan 22 00:54:13 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sat Jan 22 00:57:25 2005
Subject: Web forums? was Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <200501211110.42442@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120111154.A7683@pchelka.space.umn.edu>
	<9d6c82530501210712485c8d1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501211110.42442@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050122065413.GA7079@wookimus.net>

Bob Tanner wrote:
> I think gmane solves lots of problems.
> 
> RSS feed for quick check of posting.
> NNTP access for people who want complete thread history.
> Web access for reading and potential posting.

Cool.  Oh, I did a google search for RSS and GNU Mailman.  Looks like
there's a LUG that's generating RSS feeds at:

    http://taint.org/mmrss/ILUG.html

Maybe you could drop them a line and find out what the scoop is.

A bit more digging with google revealed this post:

    http://rogue.amk.ca/pipermail/rdfp/2003-July/000200.html

So, there are obviously some people interested in the same thing.  Maybe
some of these patches have made their way into Mailman's CVS
repository.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Sat Jan 22 01:04:49 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sat Jan 22 01:07:24 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050121201729.00000377@prokofiev>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<20050121201729.00000377@prokofiev>
Message-ID: <20050122070449.GB7079@wookimus.net>

The whole reply-to thing came up long ago.  It's been argued again and
again.  Personally, I think email clients can make pretty good guesses
as to what is a list email and what is a personal email and provide the
appropriate "reply to" options.  Email lists shouldn't bother with
munging Reply-To fields, but Mailman is pretty smart about leaving a
Reply-To field alone if it's been used by a list member for a specific
purpose.

Let's say I post an email prompting people to vote for something, and I
set the Reply-To field to something like chewie+vote001@wookimus.net.
Now my procmail script can pick up replies to that address, as long as
the Reply-To field hasn't been munged by the list server.

<FLAME ON>
Reply-To can be useful, but it should be used intelligently, not as a
crutch for lazy email users.
<FLAME OFF>

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 12:47:56 2005
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sat Jan 22 12:52:28 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
In-Reply-To: <20050122064539.GC7345@iucha.net>
References: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
	<be0800f80501212221461d3ebb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050122064539.GC7345@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <2c6699da05012210475b52a8ab@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:45:39 -0600, Florin Iucha <florin@iucha.net> wrote:
> I will haul it to nanosys~1 tomorrow and use their PSU tester
> and motherboards and patience to isolate the problem and replace the
> faulty component.

For those who don't know, here's a simple homebrew ATX power supply tester.
You need: hard drive that spins, paper clip.

Plug the hard drive in as normal.  Unplug the 20 pin ATX connector
from the motherboard.  Turn the connector so the little plastic clip
is facing you.  Take the paper clip and short together pins 14 and 15.
 Pin 14 is 4th from the left (usually green), pin 15 is one more to
the right (usually black).  The hard drive should spin up.

Don't keep the power supply on for more than a couple seconds,
underloading a power supply may damage it.

I have a power supply tester at work that's the same concept, except
it has a massive carbon resistor/heatsink thing on it negating the
need for the hard drive.

-Brian

From esper at sherohman.org  Sat Jan 22 13:13:18 2005
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Sat Jan 22 13:17:28 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>

On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 09:18:15PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> (Someone else said, but the attribution did not appear in Callum's post:)
> > I happen to think it's very broken behavior myself; but users who aren't
> > used to mailing lists seem to expect that when they click "Reply", it will
> > go to the person, and when they click "Reply All", it will go to the list.  
> > *shrugs*

I'm quite used to mailing lists, yet I still expect "reply" to reply
only to the sender and "reply to all" to send a copy to each and every
address found in the to:, from:, or cc: headers (possibly excepting mine,
depending on my MUA configuration), regardless of whether the message
came by way of a list or not.  I dislike it when list management programs
break this expectation as a matter of course.

Now, if we were to get all common MUAs to support separate "reply
to sender" and "smart reply" functions where "reply to sender" would
always do exactly that and "smart reply" would detect mailing lists,
check reply-to:, etc., then I would have no problem with that.  Setting
reply-to: on lists tries to turn "reply to sender" into "smart reply",
which is just bad because a) it's not very smart and b) if I say "reply
to sender" I mean "reply to sender".  But, considering the failure
of mutt-like "reply to list" commands to appear in all common MUAs,
I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that a widely-implemented "smart reply"
won't be happening any time soon, either.

> Yes. One point of irritation is EVERY other list *I* happen to be on,
> mangles reply-to. And its how the old list worked for many years. So its
> deeply ingrained habit now to just be able to hit Reply, no matter how
> "incorrect" it may be.

Every other list I happen to be on does not insert reply-to: headers,
with the exception of the half of them that are run through yahoo groups.
My deeply ingrained habit, then, is to use mutt's reply-to-list function
when that's what I want to do, so that I don't have to remember how the
list I'm on at the moment does it.  And, yes, I had completely forgotten
that the old list had set reply-to: on messages because of this; if I
had remembered that detail, I probably wouldn't have commented on the
topic in the first place.

> > Personally, it annoys the heck out of me to get a direct copy of the
> > message instead of just receiving it through the listserv. Procmail rules
> > on List-Id don't work very well on direct replies, after all!
> 
> This is the other point of irritation.

Why is that, assuming that you're getting just the direct reply and
not one direct and one via the list?  A direct reply isn't list mail,
so list filters really shouldn't apply to it, should they?  (If you
are getting two copies, aren't there procmail rules that can be used to
recognize and suppress the duplicate?)

In any case, my big beef with lists setting reply-to: automatically
is that, as you say, getting a duplicate copy is irritating, but, if
someone wants to reply to the list and inadvertently replies privately,
then getting duplicates is the worst thing that will come of it and it's
just irritating, no more.  Inadvertently sending a response to the list
which you intended to be private is much more likely to have significant
negative consequences, ranging from embarrassment to lawsuits.  (Oops...
I didn't mean to break that NDA...)  Not only is leaving reply-to alone
more consistent with non-list mail, it's also safer for the list's
subscribers.

> The fact that weird and annoying issues like this exist in the first
> place, are the reason I think mailing lists are an ugly kludge created
> to solve a problem that no longer exists.
> 
> Another reason? The bounce problem.

That's really more of a problem with email itself rather than lists
in particular.  Different MTAs handle bounces differently, which can
make it very difficult (if not impossible - some MTAs bounce mailing
list messages back to the original sender instead of the list server)
to reliably recognize them.

And then there are incorrectly-configured MTAs to contend with...
I have one user on a Mailman list I run who is apparently on a dialup
connection and using something similar to fetchmail.  I guess he tried to
cleverly handle multiple accounts in multiple domains and was outsmarted
by his MTA, because whenever he retrieves messages, I get a bounce at the
list owner address (fortunately he's in digest mode so nobody else gets
them) complaining that there's no user on his machine with the list's
name (presumably derived from the to: header instead of the envelope
information) and the bounce claims to be coming from my list server
(his MTA seems to be pretending that it's the host in the to: header as
well), right down to HELOing as my domain.  I tracked down his ISP in an
attempt to find out what the actual subscribed address was so I could
remove it, but, of course, they said that the IP address the bounces
came from was their NAT host and they couldn't even try to identify the
user and contact him themselves unless he's doing something illegal.

A long digression, I'll admit, but that's an SMTP/MTA issue that even
people who know what they're doing aren't able to cleanly fix.  How is
a piece of software supposed to deal with it?

> Mailing lists made sense back when everyone wasn't on the net full time,
> or even directly connected to the net at all, (UUCP, FidoNet, Bitnet,
> Compuserve...) but it really doesn't anymore.

Dial-up users still exist.  Even if we assume that everyone on this
list is online full-time (which I think is highly unlikely), we're a
highly-technical segment of the population here and can't be expected to
represent the average joe in that aspect.  Not to mention that, until we
have ubiquitous public wireless coverage, my laptop isn't (and won't be)
on the net full time, even if my other machines are.

I don't think that anyone believes email or mailing lists are perfect,
but I have yet to see anything better.

-- 
The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the
White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that
we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened.
  - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html)

From natecars at real-time.com  Sat Jan 22 13:34:55 2005
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Sat Jan 22 13:37:29 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> Why is that, assuming that you're getting just the direct reply and not
> one direct and one via the list?  A direct reply isn't list mail, so
> list filters really shouldn't apply to it, should they?  (If you are
> getting two copies, aren't there procmail rules that can be used to
> recognize and suppress the duplicate?)

[Note that I am not complaining about the procedure used to reply to the
list -- with Pine, I can accept the defaults when replying and get it to
the list in either case. The big irritation for me with not having
reply-to munging turned on is the duplicate message issue - see below.]

The problem is that if a user hits reply-to-all, one copy goes directly to
me from the user's mail server, and another copy goes to me via the list
server. The direct copy does not have the List-Id tag, and ends up in my
inbox. The copy from the list server does have the List-Id tag, and will
be sorted into my mailing list folder. If I set up Procmail to strip the
duplicate messages, I will generally only receive the copy sent directly
to me, and not the copy sent to the list (the privately-sent copy will
usually arrive faster.) That mean that that message ends up in my inbox,
where I have to manually delete/move it to the list, instead of the list
folder, where it gets nicely threaded and I can read/delete it at my
leisure.

> In any case, my big beef with lists setting reply-to: automatically is
> that, as you say, getting a duplicate copy is irritating, but, if
> someone wants to reply to the list and inadvertently replies privately,
> then getting duplicates is the worst thing that will come of it and it's
> just irritating, no more.  Inadvertently sending a response to the list
> which you intended to be private is much more likely to have significant
> negative consequences, ranging from embarrassment to lawsuits.  
> (Oops... I didn't mean to break that NDA...)  Not only is leaving
> reply-to alone more consistent with non-list mail, it's also safer for
> the list's subscribers.

That never used to be a problem; when I was first signing up for mailing
lists (many moons ago), where the reply-to munging was default, I never
saw those "accidental posts". Now that more users with crappy MUA's (which
don't make it obvious that you're sending back to the list instead of the
user) are using mailing lists, I notice it a lot more. Even so, most users
who do accidently have a post go to the list reply to it and say "Oops,
sorry!" and it never happens again.

My view on this has always been that if you're replying to a message
posted to the list, the default behavior should be for your reply to go
back to the mailing list; if you want to change that behavior, you'll have
to do something different. It's always seemed perfectly obvious to me..

-- 
Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500


From florin at iucha.net  Sat Jan 22 16:32:08 2005
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sat Jan 22 16:32:30 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da05012210475b52a8ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050121025723.GC29457@iucha.net>
	<be0800f80501212221461d3ebb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050122064539.GC7345@iucha.net>
	<2c6699da05012210475b52a8ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050122223208.GA13934@iucha.net>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 12:47:56PM -0600, Brian Wall wrote:
> For those who don't know, here's a simple homebrew ATX power supply tester.
> You need: hard drive that spins, paper clip.

Tried that with no luck: the PSU was fried. I am thankful it did to take
anything else down. After replacing the PSU all is fine and dandy.

florin

-- 

Don't question authority: they don't know either!
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Jan 22 16:39:58 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat Jan 22 16:42:46 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501222239.j0MMdw903909@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Ultra 1E and hubs for trade

For trade:

One Sun Ultra 1 Enterprise, in working condition but no CDROM, memory, hard 
drives, spuds, or video card, has a hardware hack;

One HP J4090A 10baseT unmanaged 8 port hub;

One HP 24M 10baseT managed 24 port hub, but the managed part is for naught, 
as-is.

Will trade for 2 pounds of Fair Trade, Medium Roast, ground coffee.

Email if interested.

Thanks,
Neal
nodeengineer@msn.com 


Seller Email address: nodeengineer at msn dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 22 18:20:04 2005
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat Jan 22 18:22:32 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <DJEHLONFBIGDNAPDPEMKEEIGCEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:18 PM
> To: TCLUG
>
> Mailing lists made sense back when everyone wasn't on the net full time,
> or even directly connected to the net at all, (UUCP, FidoNet, Bitnet,
> Compuserve...) but it really doesn't anymore.


I disagree.  Your assumtions seem to be for a minor subset of people at most.  Not *everyone* is on full time now, and many of us
travel, etc, so the list function is strongly preferred by many.  Some who are "often on" strongly prefer lists and their features.
Some of us prefer not to use web or usenet (etc) for list types of activity.

I do agree that any REPLY function should be used intelligently and that replies should be trimmed as well.  I prefer that replies
go to the list whenever the info may be of use to others.


Chuck



From seg at haxxed.com  Sat Jan 22 20:58:26 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:02:31 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <DJEHLONFBIGDNAPDPEMKEEIGCEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DJEHLONFBIGDNAPDPEMKEEIGCEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1106449106.25111.29.camel@bigtime>

> I disagree.  Your assumtions seem to be for a minor subset of people at most.  Not *everyone* is on full time now, and many of us
> travel, etc, so the list function is strongly preferred by many.

Offline mode.

And mailing list functionality can be preserved for the diehards.
Citadel can allow people to subscribe to rooms, mailing list style.

I'm playing around with gating mailing lists into Citadel. There's two-
way gatewaying waiting in CVS... I'll try giving out access if I get it
all working.


From seg at haxxed.com  Sat Jan 22 21:02:29 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:02:41 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org> <41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <1106449349.25111.31.camel@bigtime>

> A long digression, I'll admit, but that's an SMTP/MTA issue that even
> people who know what they're doing aren't able to cleanly fix.  How is
> a piece of software supposed to deal with it?

Don't push messages in the first place?

> > Mailing lists made sense back when everyone wasn't on the net full time,
> > or even directly connected to the net at all, (UUCP, FidoNet, Bitnet,
> > Compuserve...) but it really doesn't anymore.
> 
> Dial-up users still exist.  Even if we assume that everyone on this
> list is online full-time (which I think is highly unlikely), we're a
> highly-technical segment of the population here and can't be expected to
> represent the average joe in that aspect.  Not to mention that, until we
> have ubiquitous public wireless coverage, my laptop isn't (and won't be)
> on the net full time, even if my other machines are.

Red herring. Any decent mail/NNTP client does 'offline' mode these
days, whereby they will mirror a mailbox/newsgroup on local storage.
There's no reason to be 'pushing' thousands of duplicate messages
around the 'net anymore. Clients can 'pull' whenever it is convenient
for them to do so . Its pretty well established at this point that
"pushing" is not a good way to go about mass distribution on the modern
internet. Pull is how the web works. And look at how successful
PointCast, Marimba and Netcaster were... 



From esper at sherohman.org  Sun Jan 23 00:41:45 2005
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Sun Jan 23 00:45:42 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106449349.25111.31.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
	<1106449349.25111.31.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050123064145.GE19954@sherohman.org>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 09:02:29PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> > A long digression, I'll admit, but that's an SMTP/MTA issue that even
> > people who know what they're doing aren't able to cleanly fix.  How is
> > a piece of software supposed to deal with it?
> 
> Don't push messages in the first place?

Heh...  My point was that bounces can't be reliably handled in
software due to problems with email itself, not due to anything
specific to mailing lists.  You're not suggesting that we do away
with email entirely, are you?

> Red herring. Any decent mail/NNTP client does 'offline' mode these
> days, whereby they will mirror a mailbox/newsgroup on local storage.

Hmm...  So does that mean that mutt's not a decent mail client?
(Yes, that's a joke.  I'm well aware that you can use fetchmail or
the like to get that sort of functionality when using mutt or other
non-POP/IMAP MUAs.)

> Its pretty well established at this point that
> "pushing" is not a good way to go about mass distribution on the modern
> internet. Pull is how the web works. And look at how successful
> PointCast, Marimba and Netcaster were... 

Depends on what's being transmitted.  How are most stock/news/
whatever tickers implemented?  (They could be based on client polling
rather than a server push, but, if you're concerned about excess
usage of network resources, polling - especially frequent polling -
is far worse than either push or pull.)

Some information is better-suited to a push implementation, other
information is better suited to being pulled on demand.  When I read
my email (including lists), I want it to come up immediately.  I have
yet to see a pull-based technology that can do that without polling
and I tend to doubt that it's even possible.  (Viewing a very large
message in mutt is practically instantaneous.  Viewing even a
one-line post on Slashdot takes several seconds, at best.)
Additionally, I find it much more convenient to have information from
several sources aggregated in one place (mutt) instead of having
to go out to each source separately (slashdot, perlmonks, and a dozen
other web sites).  Therefore, by my criteria, email (including mailing
lists) works better as a push-based medium rather than pull-based.
YMMV, but I think you're greatly exaggerating the rumors of push
technology's death.

-- 
The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of the
White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important that
we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened.
  - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html)

From seg at haxxed.com  Sun Jan 23 01:59:35 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Sun Jan 23 02:02:33 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050123064145.GE19954@sherohman.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org> <41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
	<1106449349.25111.31.camel@bigtime>
	<20050123064145.GE19954@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <1106467175.25111.49.camel@bigtime>

> > Don't push messages in the first place?
> 
> Heh...  My point was that bounces can't be reliably handled in
> software due to problems with email itself, not due to anything
> specific to mailing lists.  You're not suggesting that we do away
> with email entirely, are you?

I'm suggesting they not be handled in software. You know, the thing that
has trouble with them.

SMTP is designed for one-to-one communication. It works well for that.
But its unsuitability for many-to-many should be clear by now.

> I think you're greatly exaggerating the rumors of push
> technology's death.

RSS is pull. Guess what, IMAP and POP are pull. Unless you're hosting
SMTP on your laptop, you're using pull!

I'm saying rather than having all the ugly hackishness of a list server
trying to push duplicate messages all over a thousand SMTP servers,
bouncing all the while, cut out the middle man. Have the client pull
directly from the server. As far as the client is concerned, its pulling
either way.


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Jan 23 02:54:15 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun Jan 23 02:57:34 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501230854.j0N8sFe11166@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Compaq 486. 2 of em.

1 Compaq Prolinea 4/66: 24MB ram/9.1 GB drive/Adaptec 1542CP SCSI/Netgear ethernet card/no OS/one internal power connector req resolder

1 Compaq Prolinea 4/66: 12 MB ram/1.2 GB drive/Adaptec 1542CP SCSI/IIRC Cabletron ethernet card/no OS

Both units clean, boots, as-is.

Will trade for 4 lbs free trade medium roast, ground.

Seller Email address: nodeengineer at msn dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From poptix at poptix.net  Sun Jan 23 08:58:41 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Sun Jan 23 09:02:37 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <1106467175.25111.49.camel@bigtime>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
	<1106449349.25111.31.camel@bigtime>
	<20050123064145.GE19954@sherohman.org>
	<1106467175.25111.49.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <20050123145841.GB2576@momentum.poptix.net>

On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 01:59:35AM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:

> SMTP is designed for one-to-one communication. It works well for that.
> But its unsuitability for many-to-many should be clear by now.

SMTP works just as well for one-to-many, depending on where those many are.

Bob made changes that make this less efficient in exchange for better bounce
handling, that's a tradeoff he was willing to make.

> RSS is pull. Guess what, IMAP and POP are pull. Unless you're hosting
> SMTP on your laptop, you're using pull!

Yeah, and guess what. RSS feeds are hammered by idiots setting their refresh
rate to 1 minute, pop and imap servers are hammered by idiots setting their
'check for new mail' to once a minute, while my SMTP server handles itself
just fine pushing mail around as it sees fit.

Ever run a popular RSS feed or mail server?

Gaming companies (such as Sierra/Valve) now use content distribution systems
to update customers games, the servers notify the clients that there
are updates available, then they push the updates to the clients. This
resolves the millions of idiots repeatedly checking for updates problem.

(Or 'millions of idiots trying to download the same file from the same web
server' problem)

It works a lot better because the updates are pushed to all the clients
and they're scheduled to update on a certain date, you get a lead time
to spread out the resource usage and a date on which everyone is running
the new version (for game server compatibility)

> I'm saying rather than having all the ugly hackishness of a list server
> trying to push duplicate messages all over a thousand SMTP servers,
> bouncing all the while, cut out the middle man. Have the client pull
> directly from the server. As far as the client is concerned, its pulling
> either way.

It's infinitely more wasteful to pull than to push.

"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"
"Mommy, are we there yet?"

vs.

"Kids, we've arrived."

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sun Jan 23 11:10:59 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun Jan 23 11:12:37 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
	<20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501231109080.8223@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote:

> As posted by Florin:
>
> /usr/include/linux> more limits.h
>
> #define NGROUPS_MAX       32    /* supplemental group IDs are available */
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^       ^^


Does that mean that it is possible to change the value to, say, 64?

How does the include file affect the system?  Would the value have to be 
changed and the kernel recompiled?

Mike

From chris.smith at apigroupinc.us  Fri Jan 21 14:00:18 2005
From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.us (Chris Smith)
Date: Sun Jan 23 11:18:51 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
Message-ID: <auto-000001656861@apigroupinc.com>

I just got a 7TB SAN and I'd like to be able to mount the thing as one large
partition..but it appears I hit the 32bit limit with fdisk. I've googled all
over the place, anyone have any hints? I saw something about a config_lbd,
but i don't see that in my kernel mkconfig..
 
TIA,
Chris
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From josh at joshwelch.com  Sun Jan 23 11:59:20 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 12:06:13 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000001656861@apigroupinc.com>
References: <auto-000001656861@apigroupinc.com>
Message-ID: <20050123115920.6rokhpd3nl3c4ggo@moose.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Chris Smith <chris.smith@apigroupinc.us>:

> I just got a 7TB SAN and I'd like to be able to mount the thing as one large
> partition..but it appears I hit the 32bit limit with fdisk. I've googled all
> over the place, anyone have any hints? I saw something about a config_lbd,
> but i don't see that in my kernel mkconfig..
>
> TIA,
> Chris
>

Is it really necessary to fdisk it? I've made file systems on disks without
creating partitions, i.e.:
# /sbin/mkfs.ext3 /dev/sda

It seems to have worked fine, is there something horribly broken about this?
However, I believe that ext3 tops out at 4TB in its most current iteration, so
you would need a different file system such as xfs.

Josh


From florin at iucha.net  Sun Jan 23 12:00:14 2005
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sun Jan 23 12:07:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501231109080.8223@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
	<20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501231109080.8223@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20050123180014.GA18090@iucha.net>

On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 11:10:59AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> 
> >As posted by Florin:
> >
> >/usr/include/linux> more limits.h
> >
> >#define NGROUPS_MAX       32    /* supplemental group IDs are available */
> >       ^^^^^^^^^^^       ^^
> 
> 
> Does that mean that it is possible to change the value to, say, 64?
> 
> How does the include file affect the system?  Would the value have to be 
> changed and the kernel recompiled?

I suspect the value in the file is used to communicate the kernel
limits to the userland so changing it will not do you any good.

On the other hand, changing the value in the kernel is not as easy as
changing the value of a #define. IIRC one had to do some more surgery
on certain kernel structures to get this to work, but you should be
able to STFW for a patch.

florin

-- 

Don't question authority: they don't know either!
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From lclemens at mn.rr.com  Sun Jan 23 14:25:40 2005
From: lclemens at mn.rr.com (Lawrence Clemens)
Date: Sun Jan 23 14:27:39 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Checking a power supply.
References: <200501230311.j0N3B2CD020780@kcmx03.mgw.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000801c50189$b4eee6b0$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9>

Great tip, Brian!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org>
To: <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 9:11 PM
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16


> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://shadowknight.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> tclug-list-request@mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> tclug-list-owner@mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: need help diagnosing a hardware failure (Brian Wall)
>   2. Re: Mailing lists suck. (Dave Sherohman)
>   3. Re: Mailing lists suck. (Nate Carlson)
>   4. Re: need help diagnosing a hardware failure (Florin Iucha)
>   5. New TCLUG Classified Ad (TCLUG Classifieds)
>   6. RE: Mailing lists suck. (Chuck Cole)
>   7. RE: Mailing lists suck. (Callum Lerwick)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:47:56 -0600
> From: Brian Wall <kc0iog@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <2c6699da05012210475b52a8ab@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:45:39 -0600, Florin Iucha <florin@iucha.net> wrote:
>> I will haul it to nanosys~1 tomorrow and use their PSU tester
>> and motherboards and patience to isolate the problem and replace the
>> faulty component.
>
> For those who don't know, here's a simple homebrew ATX power supply 
> tester.
> You need: hard drive that spins, paper clip.
>
> Plug the hard drive in as normal.  Unplug the 20 pin ATX connector
> from the motherboard.  Turn the connector so the little plastic clip
> is facing you.  Take the paper clip and short together pins 14 and 15.
> Pin 14 is 4th from the left (usually green), pin 15 is one more to
> the right (usually black).  The hard drive should spin up.
>
> Don't keep the power supply on for more than a couple seconds,
> underloading a power supply may damage it.
>
> I have a power supply tester at work that's the same concept, except
> it has a massive carbon resistor/heatsink thing on it negating the
> need for the hard drive.
>
> -Brian
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:13:18 -0600
> From: Dave Sherohman <esper@sherohman.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
> To: TCLUG <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 09:18:15PM -0600, Callum Lerwick wrote:
>> (Someone else said, but the attribution did not appear in Callum's post:)
>> > I happen to think it's very broken behavior myself; but users who 
>> > aren't
>> > used to mailing lists seem to expect that when they click "Reply", it 
>> > will
>> > go to the person, and when they click "Reply All", it will go to the 
>> > list.
>> > *shrugs*
>
> I'm quite used to mailing lists, yet I still expect "reply" to reply
> only to the sender and "reply to all" to send a copy to each and every
> address found in the to:, from:, or cc: headers (possibly excepting mine,
> depending on my MUA configuration), regardless of whether the message
> came by way of a list or not.  I dislike it when list management programs
> break this expectation as a matter of course.
>
> Now, if we were to get all common MUAs to support separate "reply
> to sender" and "smart reply" functions where "reply to sender" would
> always do exactly that and "smart reply" would detect mailing lists,
> check reply-to:, etc., then I would have no problem with that.  Setting
> reply-to: on lists tries to turn "reply to sender" into "smart reply",
> which is just bad because a) it's not very smart and b) if I say "reply
> to sender" I mean "reply to sender".  But, considering the failure
> of mutt-like "reply to list" commands to appear in all common MUAs,
> I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that a widely-implemented "smart reply"
> won't be happening any time soon, either.
>
>> Yes. One point of irritation is EVERY other list *I* happen to be on,
>> mangles reply-to. And its how the old list worked for many years. So its
>> deeply ingrained habit now to just be able to hit Reply, no matter how
>> "incorrect" it may be.
>
> Every other list I happen to be on does not insert reply-to: headers,
> with the exception of the half of them that are run through yahoo groups.
> My deeply ingrained habit, then, is to use mutt's reply-to-list function
> when that's what I want to do, so that I don't have to remember how the
> list I'm on at the moment does it.  And, yes, I had completely forgotten
> that the old list had set reply-to: on messages because of this; if I
> had remembered that detail, I probably wouldn't have commented on the
> topic in the first place.
>
>> > Personally, it annoys the heck out of me to get a direct copy of the
>> > message instead of just receiving it through the listserv. Procmail 
>> > rules
>> > on List-Id don't work very well on direct replies, after all!
>>
>> This is the other point of irritation.
>
> Why is that, assuming that you're getting just the direct reply and
> not one direct and one via the list?  A direct reply isn't list mail,
> so list filters really shouldn't apply to it, should they?  (If you
> are getting two copies, aren't there procmail rules that can be used to
> recognize and suppress the duplicate?)
>
> In any case, my big beef with lists setting reply-to: automatically
> is that, as you say, getting a duplicate copy is irritating, but, if
> someone wants to reply to the list and inadvertently replies privately,
> then getting duplicates is the worst thing that will come of it and it's
> just irritating, no more.  Inadvertently sending a response to the list
> which you intended to be private is much more likely to have significant
> negative consequences, ranging from embarrassment to lawsuits.  (Oops...
> I didn't mean to break that NDA...)  Not only is leaving reply-to alone
> more consistent with non-list mail, it's also safer for the list's
> subscribers.
>
>> The fact that weird and annoying issues like this exist in the first
>> place, are the reason I think mailing lists are an ugly kludge created
>> to solve a problem that no longer exists.
>>
>> Another reason? The bounce problem.
>
> That's really more of a problem with email itself rather than lists
> in particular.  Different MTAs handle bounces differently, which can
> make it very difficult (if not impossible - some MTAs bounce mailing
> list messages back to the original sender instead of the list server)
> to reliably recognize them.
>
> And then there are incorrectly-configured MTAs to contend with...
> I have one user on a Mailman list I run who is apparently on a dialup
> connection and using something similar to fetchmail.  I guess he tried to
> cleverly handle multiple accounts in multiple domains and was outsmarted
> by his MTA, because whenever he retrieves messages, I get a bounce at the
> list owner address (fortunately he's in digest mode so nobody else gets
> them) complaining that there's no user on his machine with the list's
> name (presumably derived from the to: header instead of the envelope
> information) and the bounce claims to be coming from my list server
> (his MTA seems to be pretending that it's the host in the to: header as
> well), right down to HELOing as my domain.  I tracked down his ISP in an
> attempt to find out what the actual subscribed address was so I could
> remove it, but, of course, they said that the IP address the bounces
> came from was their NAT host and they couldn't even try to identify the
> user and contact him themselves unless he's doing something illegal.
>
> A long digression, I'll admit, but that's an SMTP/MTA issue that even
> people who know what they're doing aren't able to cleanly fix.  How is
> a piece of software supposed to deal with it?
>
>> Mailing lists made sense back when everyone wasn't on the net full time,
>> or even directly connected to the net at all, (UUCP, FidoNet, Bitnet,
>> Compuserve...) but it really doesn't anymore.
>
> Dial-up users still exist.  Even if we assume that everyone on this
> list is online full-time (which I think is highly unlikely), we're a
> highly-technical segment of the population here and can't be expected to
> represent the average joe in that aspect.  Not to mention that, until we
> have ubiquitous public wireless coverage, my laptop isn't (and won't be)
> on the net full time, even if my other machines are.
>
> I don't think that anyone believes email or mailing lists are perfect,
> but I have yet to see anything better.
>
> -- 
> The freedoms that we enjoy presently are the most important victories of 
> the
> White Hats over the past several millennia, and it is vitally important 
> that
> we don't give them up now, only because we are frightened.
>  - Eolake Stobblehouse (http://stobblehouse.com/text/battle.html)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:34:55 -0600 (CST)
> From: Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
> To: TCLUG <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005, Dave Sherohman wrote:
>> Why is that, assuming that you're getting just the direct reply and not
>> one direct and one via the list?  A direct reply isn't list mail, so
>> list filters really shouldn't apply to it, should they?  (If you are
>> getting two copies, aren't there procmail rules that can be used to
>> recognize and suppress the duplicate?)
>
> [Note that I am not complaining about the procedure used to reply to the
> list -- with Pine, I can accept the defaults when replying and get it to
> the list in either case. The big irritation for me with not having
> reply-to munging turned on is the duplicate message issue - see below.]
>
> The problem is that if a user hits reply-to-all, one copy goes directly to
> me from the user's mail server, and another copy goes to me via the list
> server. The direct copy does not have the List-Id tag, and ends up in my
> inbox. The copy from the list server does have the List-Id tag, and will
> be sorted into my mailing list folder. If I set up Procmail to strip the
> duplicate messages, I will generally only receive the copy sent directly
> to me, and not the copy sent to the list (the privately-sent copy will
> usually arrive faster.) That mean that that message ends up in my inbox,
> where I have to manually delete/move it to the list, instead of the list
> folder, where it gets nicely threaded and I can read/delete it at my
> leisure.
>
>> In any case, my big beef with lists setting reply-to: automatically is
>> that, as you say, getting a duplicate copy is irritating, but, if
>> someone wants to reply to the list and inadvertently replies privately,
>> then getting duplicates is the worst thing that will come of it and it's
>> just irritating, no more.  Inadvertently sending a response to the list
>> which you intended to be private is much more likely to have significant
>> negative consequences, ranging from embarrassment to lawsuits.
>> (Oops... I didn't mean to break that NDA...)  Not only is leaving
>> reply-to alone more consistent with non-list mail, it's also safer for
>> the list's subscribers.
>
> That never used to be a problem; when I was first signing up for mailing
> lists (many moons ago), where the reply-to munging was default, I never
> saw those "accidental posts". Now that more users with crappy MUA's (which
> don't make it obvious that you're sending back to the list instead of the
> user) are using mailing lists, I notice it a lot more. Even so, most users
> who do accidently have a post go to the list reply to it and say "Oops,
> sorry!" and it never happens again.
>
> My view on this has always been that if you're replying to a message
> posted to the list, the default behavior should be for your reply to go
> back to the mailing list; if you want to change that behavior, you'll have
> to do something different. It's always seemed perfectly obvious to me..
>
> -- 
> Nate Carlson <natecars@real-time.com>   | Phone : (952)943-8700
> http://www.real-time.com                | Fax   : (952)943-8500
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:32:08 -0600
> From: florin@iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] need help diagnosing a hardware failure
> To: Brian Wall <kc0iog@gmail.com>
> Cc: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20050122223208.GA13934@iucha.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 12:47:56PM -0600, Brian Wall wrote:
>> For those who don't know, here's a simple homebrew ATX power supply 
>> tester.
>> You need: hard drive that spins, paper clip.
>
> Tried that with no luck: the PSU was fried. I am thankful it did to take
> anything else down. After replacing the PSU all is fine and dandy.
>
> florin
>
> -- 
>
> Don't question authority: they don't know either!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:39:58 -0600
> From: TCLUG Classifieds <webmaster@mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
> To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <200501222239.j0MMdw903909@crusader.real-time.com>
>
> New TCLUG Classified Ad
>
> Category: Computer
>
> Type of Ad: For Sale
>
> Subject: Ultra 1E and hubs for trade
>
> For trade:
>
> One Sun Ultra 1 Enterprise, in working condition but no CDROM, memory, 
> hard
> drives, spuds, or video card, has a hardware hack;
>
> One HP J4090A 10baseT unmanaged 8 port hub;
>
> One HP 24M 10baseT managed 24 port hub, but the managed part is for 
> naught,
> as-is.
>
> Will trade for 2 pounds of Fair Trade, Medium Roast, ground coffee.
>
> Email if interested.
>
> Thanks,
> Neal
> nodeengineer@msn.com
>
>
> Seller Email address: nodeengineer at msn dot com
>
> http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:20:04 -0600
> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
> To: "TCLUG" <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <DJEHLONFBIGDNAPDPEMKEEIGCEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick
>> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:18 PM
>> To: TCLUG
>>
>> Mailing lists made sense back when everyone wasn't on the net full time,
>> or even directly connected to the net at all, (UUCP, FidoNet, Bitnet,
>> Compuserve...) but it really doesn't anymore.
>
>
> I disagree.  Your assumtions seem to be for a minor subset of people at 
> most.  Not *everyone* is on full time now, and many of us
> travel, etc, so the list function is strongly preferred by many.  Some who 
> are "often on" strongly prefer lists and their features.
> Some of us prefer not to use web or usenet (etc) for list types of 
> activity.
>
> I do agree that any REPLY function should be used intelligently and that 
> replies should be trimmed as well.  I prefer that replies
> go to the list whenever the info may be of use to others.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:58:26 -0600
> From: Callum Lerwick <seg@haxxed.com>
> Subject: RE: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
> To: TCLUG <tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <1106449106.25111.29.camel@bigtime>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>> I disagree.  Your assumtions seem to be for a minor subset of people at 
>> most.  Not *everyone* is on full time now, and many of us
>> travel, etc, so the list function is strongly preferred by many.
>
> Offline mode.
>
> And mailing list functionality can be preserved for the diehards.
> Citadel can allow people to subscribe to rooms, mailing list style.
>
> I'm playing around with gating mailing lists into Citadel. There's two-
> way gatewaying waiting in CVS... I'll try giving out access if I get it
> all working.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16
> ***************************************** 


From chewie at wookimus.net  Sun Jan 23 15:14:49 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sun Jan 23 15:15:49 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Checking a power supply.
In-Reply-To: <000801c50189$b4eee6b0$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9>
References: <200501230311.j0N3B2CD020780@kcmx03.mgw.rr.com>
	<000801c50189$b4eee6b0$24fea8c0@selfp6xu3g1ng9>
Message-ID: <20050123211449.GA19257@wookimus.net>

Lawrence Clemens wrote:
> Great tip, Brian!

... [SNIPPED 450+ LINES OF CRAP] ...

Turn off top posting for replies if you can't cut the text
appropriately.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From poptix at poptix.net  Sun Jan 23 15:33:01 2005
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Sun Jan 23 15:35:49 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000001656861@apigroupinc.com>
References: <auto-000001656861@apigroupinc.com>
Message-ID: <20050123213301.GC2576@momentum.poptix.net>

Either use the device without partitioning (as Josh suggested) or use
'parted' to partition it. fdisk has serious issues.

FYI, you'll have problems with mke2fs if you're using debian, grab
a static binary from elsewhere if necessary.

On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 02:00:18PM -0600, Chris Smith wrote:
> I just got a 7TB SAN and I'd like to be able to mount the thing as one large
> partition..but it appears I hit the 32bit limit with fdisk. I've googled all
> over the place, anyone have any hints? I saw something about a config_lbd,
> but i don't see that in my kernel mkconfig..
>  
> TIA,
> Chris

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

From auditodd at comcast.net  Sun Jan 23 15:50:56 2005
From: auditodd at comcast.net (Todd Young)
Date: Sun Jan 23 15:56:01 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux support for HP printers
Message-ID: <41F41C40.3050805@comcast.net>

Just found this while trying to get my HP LJ5si to work with my Mandrake 
v9.2 machine, thought others might find it useful.

http://hpinkjet.sourceforge.net

It's not just for their InkJet printers.
-- 
Todd Young

From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 20:19:54 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Sun Jan 23 20:22:41 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <20050123213301.GC2576@momentum.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <41f45b4c.1d68b92f.5322.0095@smtp.gmail.com>

You were right. It worked w/o fdisking.. The only other trick was to change
the size of the addressing from 1k to 8k.

Thanks guys,

Chris 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Matthew S. Hallacy
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 3:33 PM
To: Chris Smith
Cc: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?

Either use the device without partitioning (as Josh suggested) or use
'parted' to partition it. fdisk has serious issues.

FYI, you'll have problems with mke2fs if you're using debian, grab a static
binary from elsewhere if necessary.

On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 02:00:18PM -0600, Chris Smith wrote:
> I just got a 7TB SAN and I'd like to be able to mount the thing as one 
> large partition..but it appears I hit the 32bit limit with fdisk. I've 
> googled all over the place, anyone have any hints? I saw something 
> about a config_lbd, but i don't see that in my kernel mkconfig..
>  
> TIA,
> Chris

-- 
Matthew S. Hallacy                            FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net                           GPG public key 0x01938203

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Jan 23 20:45:38 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun Jan 23 20:57:42 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501240245.j0O2jcx27862@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Two new computer systems

AMD Athlon XP 2400+ System

    * Sleek Silver & Black Case w/ 420 Watt PSU
    * Biostar M7VIG Pro-D Motherboard
    * AMD Athlon XP 2400+ CPU
    * 256mb PC2700 DDR RAM
    * 128mb Radeon 9200 or 128mb GeForce FX 5200
    * 80gb Seagate UDMA/100 Hard Drive
    * 52x IDE CD-ROM
    * 8x8 Lite-on DVD+-RW
    * 1.44mb Floppy Disk Drive
    * Motorola 56k v.92 PCI Modem
    * 6-Channel Sound Card
    * 3-Piece Speaker Set w/ Self-Powered Mini-Subwoofer
    * 108-Key PS/2 Multimedia Keyboard
    * 3-Button PS/2 Optical Mouse w/ Scrollwheel

Asking $300 each as I need the money. The parts in these systems are all brand new. No OS with these.

Seller Email address: james_masters at comcast dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From josh at joshwelch.com  Mon Jan 24 07:24:44 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 07:27:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <41f45b4c.1d68b92f.5322.0095@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <41f45b4c.1d68b92f.5322.0095@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050124072444.6729ut7obyo8g48s@moose.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Chris Smith <christophermsmith@gmail.com>:

> You were right. It worked w/o fdisking.. The only other trick was to change
> the size of the addressing from 1k to 8k.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Chris
>

Out of curiosity, what did you use for a filesystem?

Josh


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 07:55:09 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 24 07:57:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <20050124072444.6729ut7obyo8g48s@moose.joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <41f4fe3e.1e091150.3fed.002c@smtp.gmail.com>

The SAN manuf. Said that they recommend not to have 1 large 7TB array for
reliability reasons. So we split it into several chunks, and used LVM w/ FC3
to make it one device. Then used ext3. From fstab.

/dev/mapper/san_array-san_storage  /var/resource  ext3  defaults       


With spare drives and so on, the 7TB actually turned out to be 5TiB. You
really start to notice the innacuraccy of the common measurement vs SI at
that size.

This is also my first fiber channel experience.. Seems very fast..

/dev/mapper/san_array-san_storage:
 Timing buffered disk reads:  282 MB in  3.02 seconds =  93.48 MB/se


Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Josh Welch
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 7:25 AM
To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org
Subject: RE: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?

Quoting Chris Smith <christophermsmith@gmail.com>:

> You were right. It worked w/o fdisking.. The only other trick was to 
> change the size of the addressing from 1k to 8k.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Chris
>

Out of curiosity, what did you use for a filesystem?

Josh


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From shanson at cruiskeen.com  Mon Jan 24 09:08:23 2005
From: shanson at cruiskeen.com (Steve Hanson)
Date: Mon Jan 24 09:09:35 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501231109080.8223@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>	<20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501231109080.8223@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <41F50F67.5000605@cruiskeen.com>

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> 
>> As posted by Florin:
>>
>> /usr/include/linux> more limits.h
>>
>> #define NGROUPS_MAX       32    /* supplemental group IDs are 
>> available */
>>        ^^^^^^^^^^^       ^^
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean that it is possible to change the value to, say, 64?
> 
> How does the include file affect the system?  Would the value have to be 
> changed and the kernel recompiled?

If you change it  it will, for one thing, break NFS horribly.
> 
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Jan 24 09:16:46 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon Jan 24 09:17:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <41f4fe3e.1e091150.3fed.002c@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <41f4fe3e.1e091150.3fed.002c@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501240906440.11389@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Chris Smith wrote:

> With spare drives and so on, the 7TB actually turned out to be 5TiB. You 
> really start to notice the innacuraccy of the common measurement vs SI 
> at that size.

Are you referring to this?:

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

kibi   1.0240e+03
mebi   1.0486e+06
gibi   1.0737e+09
tebi   1.0995e+12
pebi   1.1259e+15
exbi   1.1529e+18

It should only throw you off by 10% at the level of 1 TB.
Maybe they were rounding up.

Mike

From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 09:34:11 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon Jan 24 09:37:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501240906440.11389@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <41f51573.22582099.2d77.00d0@smtp.gmail.com>

 Yep, That is what I'm talking about, and the rest is because the SAN held
back 2 drives per container as hot spares, with a total of 3 containers. Our
current needs are only 1TB and the SAN can hold another controller, so we
should be fine. It is an ATABeast btw, http://www.atadisk.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 9:17 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: RE: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Chris Smith wrote:

> With spare drives and so on, the 7TB actually turned out to be 5TiB. 
> You really start to notice the innacuraccy of the common measurement 
> vs SI at that size.

Are you referring to this?:

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

kibi   1.0240e+03
mebi   1.0486e+06
gibi   1.0737e+09
tebi   1.0995e+12
pebi   1.1259e+15
exbi   1.1529e+18

It should only throw you off by 10% at the level of 1 TB.
Maybe they were rounding up.

Mike

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From Chrisopp7586 at netscape.net  Sun Jan 23 22:58:31 2005
From: Chrisopp7586 at netscape.net (Cop7586)
Date: Mon Jan 24 10:45:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Grub Error 15: File not found 
Message-ID: <45FA7FC3.19737528.0FE98156@netscape.net>


Hello,

I've recently built a new kernel and can't boot into my new kernel. I've updated my /boot/grub/grub.conf file as follows with the new kernel. 

# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file
# NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
#          root (hd0,0)
#          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/hda2
#          initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/hda
default=0
timeout=10
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-6)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.20-6 ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.20-6.img
title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-6new)
        root (hd0,1)
        kernel /bzImage-2.4.20-6new ro root=/dev/hda2
        initrd /initrd-2.4.20-6new.img



Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda2              7787744   1649900   5742244  23% /
/dev/hda1               202220     14004    177776   8% /boot
none                    192560         0    192560   0% /dev/shm


I'm assuming I did everything correctly in the grub.conf file. When I reboot the system and try to load my new kernel all I get is 

Root (hd0,1)
Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type is 0x83

Kernel /bzImage-2.4.20-6new ro root=/dev/hda2 ro root=/dev/hda2

Error 15: File not found

Press any key to continue... 


when I type in 

grub> find /grub/stage1 
(0,0)

grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 

file not found 

grub> find /grub/stage2 from
(0,0)

grub> find /grub/menu.lst 
(0,0) 

What am I missing? Please help. 


Best regards,

Chris 




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From davec at umn.edu  Mon Jan 24 09:43:05 2005
From: davec at umn.edu (Dave Carlson)
Date: Mon Jan 24 10:46:38 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Max number of secondary groups a user can have?
In-Reply-To: <41F50F67.5000605@cruiskeen.com>
References: <20050119153251.000017a4@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050119155441.0000450c@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<20050120001454.GL20040@wookimus.net>
	<20050120075621.00002dc8@jtrutwinxp.ntbsi.bsi.corp>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501231109080.8223@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<41F50F67.5000605@cruiskeen.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0501240935460.20563-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Steve Hanson (shanson@cruiskeen.com) proclaimed:

> Mike Miller wrote:
> > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> >
> >> As posted by Florin:
> >>
> >> /usr/include/linux> more limits.h
> >>
> >> #define NGROUPS_MAX       32    /* supplemental group IDs are
> >> available */
> >>        ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >
> >
> > Does that mean that it is possible to change the value to, say, 64?
> >
> > How does the include file affect the system?  Would the value have to be
> > changed and the kernel recompiled?

You'd have to recompile the kernel and glibc, and possibly everything
complicated in your system - and even if you do that, something (like NFS)
would still break.

The headers are just a 'shortcut' to glibc and/or the kernel, and if
you just update the 'shortcut' and not the code that the shortcut refers
to (which may be many things), something will expect something with 64 and
recieve 32 (or vice versa), and blow up.

> If you change it  it will, for one thing, break NFS horribly.

NFS probably wouldn't break until you recompiled it (with the kernel).

-dave

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Jan 24 11:21:55 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:25:59 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501241721.j0OHLtW07804@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: ------------------------

Subject: Unix Administrator

Unix Administrator opening - see details at www.moneygram.com.

Seller Email address: jbrain at moneygram dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 12:13:04 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:17:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Automated SSH jobs with a locked account
Message-ID: <67f3084a050124101369d9a44b@mail.gmail.com>

A while ago, I implemented ssh cron jobs to automate scripts and not
use rlogin.  Everything was working fine up until the accounts were
locked via 'passwd -l'.  Now, it prompts for a password effectively
breaking the scripts.


I believe the option that may be causing this is:

KerberosAuthentication yes


Is there a way to get the script working again and still leave the
accounts locked?  My understanding is that to use SSH/SCP, you still
need a valid shell therefore /bin/nologin or /bin/false wouldn't work.

The accounts were locked for security issues (minimal account with
/bin/rksh for a shell), as well as intended to be one less account we
have to change passwords on every 90 days on upwards of 100 boxes.

Any thoughts on a way I can implement this while leaving the accounts locked?

Thanks.

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Mon Jan 24 12:34:24 2005
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:37:48 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Automated SSH jobs with a locked account
Message-ID: <s1f4eb5e.039@mdh-gw1.health.state.mn.us>

Use '-v' and then '-vv' arguments to 'ssh' and 
see what those tell you about the authenication 
process.

>>> Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com> 01/24/05 12:13 PM >>>
A while ago, I implemented ssh cron jobs to automate scripts and not
use rlogin.  Everything was working fine up until the accounts were
locked via 'passwd -l'.  Now, it prompts for a password effectively
breaking the scripts.
I believe the option that may be causing this is:
KerberosAuthentication yes
Is there a way to get the script working again and still leave the
accounts locked?  My understanding is that to use SSH/SCP, you still
need a valid shell therefore /bin/nologin or /bin/false wouldn't work.
The accounts were locked for security issues (minimal account with
/bin/rksh for a shell), as well as intended to be one less account we
have to change passwords on every 90 days on upwards of 100 boxes.
Any thoughts on a way I can implement this while leaving the accounts
locked?


From dru at druswanderings.net  Mon Jan 24 12:39:14 2005
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:42:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Automated SSH jobs with a locked account
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a050124101369d9a44b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67f3084a050124101369d9a44b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41F540D2.9030906@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Shawn Fertch wrote:
|
| Any thoughts on a way I can implement this while leaving the accounts locked?
|

ssh keypairs?

- --
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFB9UDSiwhv4FBqkV8RAlJiAJ4v46iE4CADmcsZKn807KgUOnK+AACdHyiQ
fbQpyJiyZ36q5/f1vR25vKU=
=sr02
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Jan 24 13:52:44 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 24 13:57:47 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501241952.j0OJqip11259@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Sharp Zaurus SL-6000D

Sharp Zaurus SL-6000D.  Built in 802.11, SD slot, 640x480 screen (which is absolutely beautiful), Opera, all cables, manuals, etc.  I basically took it out of the box and turned it on, otherwise it's new.  Lists for $799.  Sell for $450.

Jay
612.817.1271


Seller Email address: austad at signal15 dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Jan 24 21:21:44 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon Jan 24 21:22:51 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501250321.j0P3LiB19221@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: Job Opportunities Available

Linux Developer / Sr. Systems Designer:
R & D Industries, Inc. has an immediate opening for a Linux project team architect.  Person will be working on the development of proprietary embedded systems using a Linux core.  Candidates should possess the following minimum education and experience: BS/MS in Computer Science or Mathematics + 3 yrs work experience in a programming / software development capacity with Linux/Unix systems.  Extensive knowledge of TCP/IP, Routing & network architecture, Cryptography, DNS, DHCP, SSH, RDP, SCP and related protocols, ability to program in Bash, C, Perl.  Extensive knowledge of Linux architecture as well as kernel development and X-Windows experience is required. Experience with Microsoft Windows & Active Directory beneficial.  We are looking for an extremely competent individual.  This will be an excellent opportunity for the right person.  Excellent pay, stock incentives and benefit package will be provided.



Linux Programmer:
R & D Industries, Inc. has an immediate opening for a Linux/Windows system programmer.  Person will be working on the development of proprietary embedded systems using a Linux core.  Candidates should possess the following minimum education and experience: BS in Computer Science or Mathematics + 3 yrs work experience in a programming / software development capacity with Linux and/or Windows based systems.  Extensive knowledge of Linux programming, Linux system architecture, and ability to program in Bash, C, SQL and VB is desired.  Our project entails integrating Linux based thin client computers with Windows/Linux/Macintosh servers.  Therefore, experience with Microsoft Windows & Active Directory would be beneficial.  We are looking for an extremely competent programmer.  This will be an excellent opportunity for the right person.  Excellent pay, stock incentives and benefit package will be provided.

If interested, please submit a resume to us at:  donv@rdi1.com, or call me directly at 712-338-2999, all applications will be held in strict confidence.


Seller Email address: donv at rdi1 dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From skodak at cs.umn.edu  Mon Jan 24 23:56:43 2005
From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara)
Date: Mon Jan 24 23:57:54 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Live CD
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501242354380.16369@caesar.cs.umn.edu>

Hi,

I have a centrino laptop (HP dv1000). Any suggestions for a Linux Live CD
which works with the centrino wireless chipset? I tried Knoppix and it
does not seem to work.

Thanks

Sreekumar

From j_wrocky at comcast.net  Tue Jan 25 05:11:42 2005
From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 05:12:57 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Live CD
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501242354380.16369@caesar.cs.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501242354380.16369@caesar.cs.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <41F6296E.6070807@comcast.net>

Sreekumar Kodakara wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a centrino laptop (HP dv1000). Any suggestions for a Linux Live CD
>which works with the centrino wireless chipset? I tried Knoppix and it
>does not seem to work.
>
>Thanks
>
>Sreekumar
>
>  
>
Sreekumar,
Might try Mepis www.mepis.org although it is built from Debian like 
Knoppix.  Then Mandrake has a live CD also might try that one.
Jerry W



From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu  Tue Jan 25 08:26:40 2005
From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Tue Jan 25 08:27:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Live CD
In-Reply-To: <41F6296E.6070807@comcast.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501242354380.16369@caesar.cs.umn.edu>
	<41F6296E.6070807@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20050125082640.A19095@pchelka.space.umn.edu>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 05:11:42AM -0600, Jerry Weihrauch wrote:
> Sreekumar Kodakara wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >I have a centrino laptop (HP dv1000). Any suggestions for a Linux Live CD
> >which works with the centrino wireless chipset? I tried Knoppix and it
> >does not seem to work.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Sreekumar
> >
> > 
> >
> Sreekumar,
> Might try Mepis www.mepis.org although it is built from Debian like 
> Knoppix.  Then Mandrake has a live CD also might try that one.

Yes, the wireless drivers you need are likely for either an
ipw2100 or ipw2200 card and it looks like recent versions of
Mepis might have it.
http://www.mepislovers.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2793&forum=6

Take a look at http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/ or
http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/ depending on which card you have
for more details.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |

From kb9wob at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 06:16:51 2005
From: kb9wob at gmail.com (Storm Man)
Date: Tue Jan 25 08:47:18 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] [TCLUG-ANNOUNCE] Upgrading the tclug
	mailing list server
In-Reply-To: <200501141113.32058@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
References: <200501141113.32058@www.mn-linux.org.or.transmuter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <e60a23790501250416405b34c3@mail.gmail.com>

Just had to comment, off topic, that I love your TNG comment!

Kevin.


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:13:25 -0600, Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org> wrote:
> #1: We have outgrown (disk space-wise) the mailing list server.
> 
> #2: I'm also tired of maintaining Red Hat 7.3 packages to keep the box up to
> date and secure.
> 
> So, it's time to migrate and upgrade the tclug-* mailing lists to a new
> system.
> 
> I'll be migrating the mailing lists over to a new box (shadowknight) today
> (01/14) with 80G dedicated to the archives. Solves #1.
> 
> At the same time, I'll be upgrading to Debian :-) (flame-bait?) to easy the
> burden of maintaining this box. Solves #2.
> 
> I will also be turning on VERP, so some of the smtp headers will be different,
> so adjust your procmail recipes accordingly.
> 
> IMPORTANT PART: When I move the subscriber base from the old (pirate) to the
> new (shadowknight), I'll be INVITING you (=not= subscribing you) to the
> mailing list.
> 
> You -must- confirm the invitation to be re-subscribed to the mailing list(s).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Did you read the above? Shaka his face red! His arms wide!
> 
> Why?
> 
> A random test of 100 email address from the subscriber database came up with
> over 70%(!) of them bouncing (so much for mailman's bounce detection, thus
> why VERP is being turned on).
> 
> The invite is a way to weed out some crufty email address.
> --
> Bob Tanner <tanner@mn-linux.org>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
> http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
> http://www.linuxjustworks.com             | Linux Just Works!
> Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Linux Users Group Announcements - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.mn-linux.org
> tclug-announce mailing list
> tclug-announce@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-announce
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Star Trek Enterprise was renewed for a 4th season.  Without increased
viewership season 5 will not be a reality!  Tune into UPN on Friday
nights this fall.

From kb9wob at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 06:20:09 2005
From: kb9wob at gmail.com (Storm Man)
Date: Tue Jan 25 08:47:35 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] OT: Vonage/Qwest DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E83D4D.7050802@cleosci.com>
References: <41E837A0.8B044680@ppdonline.com> <41E83D4D.7050802@cleosci.com>
Message-ID: <e60a2379050125042033d8bf9b@mail.gmail.com>

You have Covad?  I feel sorry for you.  I ran into all sorts of
problems with those folks when I first started up with Excel
Telecommunications, but alas I have switched OS's on account of them
in addition to going back to Qwest.

Kevin.


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:44:45 -0600, gkrueger <gkrueger@cleosci.com> wrote:
> First, I'm not sure about Qwest DSL when not a Qwest subscriber.
> 
> Second, I do have DSL through Covad on my Qwest phone line.  I know
> Covad works with 6 or 7 phone providers (meaning, as long as your phone
> service is from one of the 6 or 7, they can provide DSL to you).  Maybe
> this will help you...
> 
> Ben Bargabus wrote:
> 
> >Sorry for the off topic post but I remember reading a bit about this at
> >some point and I'm fairly sure it was on this list.  I'm getting a
> >little sick of my $120/month phone bills and was thinking about going to
> >Vonage to cut that back a bit.  I seem to remember someone here posting
> >that you can have Qwest DSL without having Qwest phone service, is that
> >[still] true?  Looking at my itemized bill from Qwest I have the
> >following items...
> >
> >Digital Subscriber Line Res - $14.95
> >Qwest Choice DSL Dlx - $28.00
> >Caller ID - $6.95
> >Line-backer Inside Wire Repair Plan - $4.75
> >Voice Messaging - $6.95
> >Qwest.net Internet Services - $21.95
> >[Misc local fees] - $13.52
> >[Misc AT&T fees] - $10.79
> >[long distance tax and surcharge] - $1.82
> >
> >If I dump Qwest other than for my DSL connection do I just pay the
> >$28.00 Qwest DSL Dlx fee or do I still pay for the basic line fee too?
> >Does Vonage have similar taxes and access charges to Qwest or are they
> >truly $25/month out the door?  Qwest.net doesn't do a thing for me as a
> >service provider so continuing to pay $21.95/month for them seems silly,
> >can someone recommend a good but cheap alternative for DSL access as an
> >ISP?  I really don't need anything but the other end of my connection.
> >I don't care about static IPs, I don't need phone support, I don't need
> >web server space, I don't even need a POP account.  The only things I'd
> >like are that they keep up with the 640kb I get from Qwest and that they
> >don't cap total transfer bandwidth over any period of time (not that I
> >really transfer that much but I don't want to have to worry about it).
> >
> >Vonage users, did you have to purchase any hardware to make the system
> >work?  Did the hardware they provide (if any) just plug right into your
> >network hub/switch and run?  Anything you wish you'd known ahead of time
> >that you can pass on to a potential customer?
> >
> >Again, sorry for being off topic.
> >Ben.
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


-- 
Star Trek Enterprise was renewed for a 4th season.  Without increased
viewership season 5 will not be a reality!  Tune into UPN on Friday
nights this fall.

From bgilbertson at stonel.com  Tue Jan 25 11:19:44 2005
From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:22:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Grub Error 15: File not found
In-Reply-To: <45FA7FC3.19737528.0FE98156@netscape.net>
References: <45FA7FC3.19737528.0FE98156@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <41F67FB0.9090404@stonel.com>

You're telling grub the kernel is on hda2.
Is that where it is?

Cop7586 wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've recently built a new kernel and can't boot into my new kernel. I've updated my /boot/grub/grub.conf file as follows with the new kernel. 
> 
> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
> #
> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file
> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
> #          root (hd0,0)
> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/hda2
> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
> #boot=/dev/hda
> default=0
> timeout=10
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-6)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.20-6 ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.20-6.img
> title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-6new)
>         root (hd0,1)
>         kernel /bzImage-2.4.20-6new ro root=/dev/hda2
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.20-6new.img
> 
> 
> 
> Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
> /dev/hda2              7787744   1649900   5742244  23% /
> /dev/hda1               202220     14004    177776   8% /boot
> none                    192560         0    192560   0% /dev/shm
> 
> 
> I'm assuming I did everything correctly in the grub.conf file. When I reboot the system and try to load my new kernel all I get is 
> 
> Root (hd0,1)
> Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type is 0x83
> 
> Kernel /bzImage-2.4.20-6new ro root=/dev/hda2 ro root=/dev/hda2
> 
> Error 15: File not found
> 
> Press any key to continue... 
> 
> 
> when I type in 
> 
> grub> find /grub/stage1 
> (0,0)
> 
> grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 
> 
> file not found 
> 
> grub> find /grub/stage2 from
> (0,0)
> 
> grub> find /grub/menu.lst 
> (0,0) 
> 
> What am I missing? Please help. 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Chris 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________________________
> Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
> As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register
> 
> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
> 
> New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
> Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
> Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

From sfertch at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 11:38:22 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:42:58 2005
Subject: Fwd: [tclug-list] Grub Error 15: File not found
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0501250937622c70d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45FA7FC3.19737528.0FE98156@netscape.net>
	<41F67FB0.9090404@stonel.com>
	<67f3084a0501250937622c70d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a050125093841970fd8@mail.gmail.com>

Grr...           Forwarding to list....


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shawn Fertch <sfertch@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:37:35 -0600
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Grub Error 15: File not found
To: Bob Gilbertson <bgilbertson@stonel.com>


On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:19:44 -0600, Bob Gilbertson
<bgilbertson@stonel.com> wrote:
> You're telling grub the kernel is on hda2.
> Is that where it is?
>

I think he needs to pay attention to these lines:

> >         root (hd0,0)

> >         root (hd0,1)

Why the change from 0,0 to 0,1?


--
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..


-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

From seg at haxxed.com  Tue Jan 25 12:54:00 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:57:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <41f45b4c.1d68b92f.5322.0095@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <41f45b4c.1d68b92f.5322.0095@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1106679240.25111.82.camel@bigtime>

LVM on raw devices is what i do.

pvcreate /dev/sdb

etc.

LVM rules.


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 13:25:42 2005
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue Jan 25 13:28:03 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?
In-Reply-To: <1106679240.25111.82.camel@bigtime>
Message-ID: <41f69d3b.782311a5.05b9.000d@smtp.gmail.com>

Yep, that is what we ended up doing. My first real experience with LVM. 
Now we are joking that we finally found a use for the STACK of 9 and 18 gig
scsi drives weve got!

Chris 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Callum Lerwick
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:54 PM
To: TCLUG
Subject: RE: [tclug-list] largest partition on fc3?

LVM on raw devices is what i do.

pvcreate /dev/sdb

etc.

LVM rules.


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From kcbnac at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 00:30:29 2005
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Wed Jan 26 00:33:03 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] SUSE v9.2 free ftp download
In-Reply-To: <41EB489D.1090306@comcast.net>
References: <41EB489D.1090306@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <32fd4537050125223032808b21@mail.gmail.com>

I also heard that it's capped somewheres around 7kb/sec on the
download...so make sure you use a resumable downloader...(Windows? I
recommend FreshDownload...www.freshdevices.com)

From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Wed Jan 26 08:19:45 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Wed Jan 26 08:23:07 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1f752b6.027@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

Dan,
Sorry for bothering you, but did you happen to check your config of the
linksys router?

Thanks

>>> drue@therub.org 01/14/05 11:07AM >>>
I don't think it calls it bridge mode.  I'll look at mine when I get
home.  The thing you can't do with a wrt54g is set it up to bridge
another WAP.  But the behavior you need is certainly possible.

Again, i'll look tonight and let you know,

dan

On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 01:19:34PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> I've not used one, but a firmware upgrade *might* help there. Others
> will be more helpful in this area.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:05:18 -0600 (CST), Garrett Krueger
> <gkrueger@cleosci.com> wrote:
> > You'll have to "admin" your way into the router, and you may have
to do
> > this by way of telnet.  I know several of the router's web
interfaces do
> > not completely let you configure some of the options.
> > 
> > Inside of the telnet screen there is probably some sort of "mode"
option
> > which will refer to bridge mode as "bridge mode" or "pass through
mode" or
> > something of that nature.
> > 
> > > That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I
cannot
> > > figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model of
the
> > > router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The
linksys
> > > website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some
conversations on
> > > google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be
done.
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John T. Hoffoss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 09:23:29 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed Jan 26 09:28:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail server - translate fake TO: address to a real one.
Message-ID: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>

Ok - I have a pretty crazy one here ....  

I have a system  that for reasons too lengthy to get into here, needs
to send mail to a very bogus email address - something like <blah
blah>@realbogus.dl

I need the SMTP server to accept such mail for the realbogus.dl
domain, and then based on address (the <blah blah> part), send it to
the real recipient.

As a test I got exchange to do this by doing the following:


Tell exchange to accept domain realbogus.dl
Tell exchange to accept mail from the server that is sending it this mail 
make a new MailBox for each bogus email address <blah blah1>@realbogus.dl .. etc
make a custom recipient of type "internet email address" - for each
real recipient address.
Go into each new Mailbox and set the delivery options to an
alternate recipient which is the appropriate custom recipient mail
address.


I'd like to offer an alternate solution with Linux - just a smtp
server running on a small box who's only job is to do this little
translation and pass the mail along.  something fast to set up and
easy enough for a monkey to add more "email translations".....

From adam at whee.org  Wed Jan 26 09:37:18 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Wed Jan 26 09:53:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail server - translate fake TO: address to a real
	one.
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501260924320.26342@titan>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, John Meier wrote:

> I'd like to offer an alternate solution with Linux - just a smtp
> server running on a small box who's only job is to do this little
> translation and pass the mail along.  something fast to set up and
> easy enough for a monkey to add more "email translations".....

With sendmail...just add the domain to class w (usually 
/etc/mail/local-host-names), and then do the translations in 
virtusertable:

fake@bogus.dl	good@realdomain.com

You can even do:
%@bogus.dl	%@realdomain.com

And then <whatever>@bogus.dl will get translated to the same 
<whatever>@realdomain.com.

virt is editted as a flat-file and then dbm'd into a hash table.  If 
you're going to have monkeys making changes, then I would have a wrapper 
script that:

#!/bin/sh
# Backup old copy - RCS, CVS, rotate, whatever...
<backup-stuff-here>

# Open the file in an editor
$EDITOR /etc/mail/virtusertable  (use Pico for the monkeys?)

# $EDITOR is done, so verify the new version is good
# just do some grep magic here to make sure that certain
# entries still exist, the format is right, etc.  CYA.
<stuff-to-verify-virt>

# Build the DBM to implement the changes, if makemap exits with
# error, then someone screwed up (probably a duplicate entry)
makemap hash /etc/mail/virtusertable < /etc/mail/virtusertable || echo \
         "Makemap complained!"

Done!

The level of monkeyness will determine the level of verification that 
needs to be done.  This might be as simple as making sure there are at 
least X lines in the file (they didn't wipe it out), or as complex as 
confirming the format, valid address syntax, etc.

And if you're going to have multiple monkeys making changes, you might 
need to put in some simple locking stuff at the beginning to prevent 
simultaneous editing.

From skodak at cs.umn.edu  Wed Jan 26 10:27:26 2005
From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:28:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Followup on Linux Live CD
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501261018470.16363@caesar.cs.umn.edu>

Hi,

Thanks for all the inputs. I tried Suse 9.1, Memphis and Knoppix.
Unfortunately none of it has the driver for my wireless chipset. Otehr
than the wireless, I had no problems booting Suse 9.1 and Memphis. ( I
couldnt try Suse 9.2 as there was no CD version of it, only DVD version).

I was thinking of making my own Live CD for my laptop, starting with
Memphis (I like the interface) and including the driver for the wirelss
chipset. I have compiled linux kernel with additional drivers etc and I am
comfortable with that. I am not sure for a Live CD if something more than
this is required. I hunted around for source code for this distro and was
not able to find it. Any inputs/experience/pit falls to avoid, would be
great.

Thanks

Sreekumar

From drue at therub.org  Wed Jan 26 10:39:34 2005
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:42:33 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] routing problem
In-Reply-To: <s1f752b6.027@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
References: <s1f752b6.027@edenpr.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20050126163934.GO79276@therub.org>

Ack sorry I completely forgot. 

Looking at my AP, I'm set to "AP Mode: Access Point".  I have the
linksys 802.11b wap only (no router stuff) - so your setup will be
different.  Here's an abbreviated diagram of my setup

             |
             |
         DSL Modem
             |
      OpenBSD Firewall
       |            |
   10.0.1.1/24  10.0.0.1/24
       |            |
  WAP 10.0.1.2     LAN
       |
       |
 DHCP 10.0.1.10-10.0.1.200
 DHCP is handled by the firewall

The WAP does nothing but "Access Point" - no dhcp, no NAT, no routing -
it's all passed to the firewall.  The WAP is a wireless hub.

Hope that helps, 
dan

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 08:19:45AM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> Dan,
> Sorry for bothering you, but did you happen to check your config of the
> linksys router?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> >>> drue@therub.org 01/14/05 11:07AM >>>
> I don't think it calls it bridge mode.  I'll look at mine when I get
> home.  The thing you can't do with a wrt54g is set it up to bridge
> another WAP.  But the behavior you need is certainly possible.
> 
> Again, i'll look tonight and let you know,
> 
> dan
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 01:19:34PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> > I've not used one, but a firmware upgrade *might* help there. Others
> > will be more helpful in this area.
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:05:18 -0600 (CST), Garrett Krueger
> > <gkrueger@cleosci.com> wrote:
> > > You'll have to "admin" your way into the router, and you may have
> to do
> > > this by way of telnet.  I know several of the router's web
> interfaces do
> > > not completely let you configure some of the options.
> > > 
> > > Inside of the telnet screen there is probably some sort of "mode"
> option
> > > which will refer to bridge mode as "bridge mode" or "pass through
> mode" or
> > > something of that nature.
> > > 
> > > > That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I
> cannot
> > > > figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model of
> the
> > > > router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The
> linksys
> > > > website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some
> conversations on
> > > > google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be
> done.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery
> 
> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > John T. Hoffoss
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tmarble at info9.net  Wed Jan 26 10:51:51 2005
From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:53:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
Message-ID: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>

Bob:

As the offical and democratically elected leader of TCLUG
I would like to appeal to you to fill out the form for us to join
the O'Reilly User Group & Professional Association Program.
  http://ug.oreilly.com/

Why?
 **** 20% UG member discount on all O'Reilly products and conferences
    * weekly newsletter
    * quarterly catalogs
    * O'Reilly speakers
    * review copies of O'Reilly products
    * donations of books and other promo items

Sense of urgency?
   Earlybird registration for the Emerging Tech conference ends MONDAY.
   http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/36/register.html

Likelyhood of approval
  Many LUG's are already members:
  http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi?LinuxGroups
  including:
    Fargo-Moorhead Linux Users Group, Fargo, ND and Moorhead, Mn
    Rochester Linux User Group (Rochester, MN)
    St. Cloud Area Linux User Group, St. Cloud MN

How to sign up
  http://ug.oreilly.com/register.html

Thank you for your consideration!

--Tom

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 10:55:23 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:58:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail server - translate fake TO: address to a real
	one.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501260924320.26342@titan>
References: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501260924320.26342@titan>
Message-ID: <65293fcc050126085518a3c7d7@mail.gmail.com>

> With sendmail...just add the domain to class w (usually
> /etc/mail/local-host-names), and then do the translations in
> virtusertable:
> 
> fake@bogus.dl   good@realdomain.com
> 
> You can even do:
> %@bogus.dl      %@realdomain.com
> 
> And then <whatever>@bogus.dl will get translated to the same
> <whatever>@realdomain.com.

Is it legal to have more than one bogus email go to a real one?  or is
that a dup entry?
I'll try this out as soon as my "emerge sendmail" is finished :)

> 
> The level of monkeyness will determine the level of verification that
> needs to be done.  This might be as simple as making sure there are at
> least X lines in the file (they didn't wipe it out), or as complex as
> confirming the format, valid address syntax, etc.
> 
> And if you're going to have multiple monkeys making changes, you might
> need to put in some simple locking stuff at the beginning to prevent
> simultaneous editing.
> 
100% windows users - command line is very scary to them ....I'll
prbably have to do some sort of samba share to the virt file or
something - just so they can edit in notepad....  sigh


Thanks for the great explination!

john

From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 11:04:13 2005
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:13:08 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
Message-ID: <fc40260f050126090411323e6d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:51:51 -0600, Tom Marble <tmarble@info9.net> wrote:
> Bob:
> 
> As the offical and democratically elected leader of TCLUG
> I would like to appeal to you to fill out the form for us to join
> the O'Reilly User Group & Professional Association Program.
>   http://ug.oreilly.com/

Tom - I was able to get the LUG discount last summer on the admission
price to OSCON...so I don't know if they care if the LUG is
"officially" a member.

From bradyh at bitstream.net  Wed Jan 26 11:16:37 2005
From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:19:40 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
Message-ID: <1106759797.4948.46.camel@localhost.localdomain>

What should we fill in as the "Group name" - Twin Cities Linux Users
Group?  Or just TCLUG?

Brady

> Bob:
> 
> As the offical and democratically elected leader of TCLUG
> I would like to appeal to you to fill out the form for us to join
> the O'Reilly User Group & Professional Association Program.
>   http://ug.oreilly.com/
> 
> Why?
>  **** 20% UG member discount on all O'Reilly products and conferences
>     * weekly newsletter
>     * quarterly catalogs
>     * O'Reilly speakers
>     * review copies of O'Reilly products
>     * donations of books and other promo items
> 
> Sense of urgency?
>    Earlybird registration for the Emerging Tech conference ends MONDAY.
>    http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/36/register.html
> 
> Likelyhood of approval
>   Many LUG's are already members:
>   http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi?LinuxGroups
>   including:
>     Fargo-Moorhead Linux Users Group, Fargo, ND and Moorhead, Mn
>     Rochester Linux User Group (Rochester, MN)
>     St. Cloud Area Linux User Group, St. Cloud MN
> 
> How to sign up
>   http://ug.oreilly.com/register.html
> 
> Thank you for your consideration!
> 
> --Tom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-- 
Brady Hegberg <bradyh@bitstream.net>


From adam at whee.org  Wed Jan 26 11:14:20 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:28:09 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail server - translate fake TO: address to a real
	one.
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc050126085518a3c7d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501260924320.26342@titan>
	<65293fcc050126085518a3c7d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501261104100.26342@titan>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, John Meier wrote:

> Is it legal to have more than one bogus email go to a real one?  or is
> that a dup entry?
> I'll try this out as soon as my "emerge sendmail" is finished :)

The bogus entries (left-hand side) need to be unique - you can have as 
many as you want, as long as they are unique.  This doesn't work:

sales@bogus.com		sales@real.com
sales@bogus.com		service@real.com

It doesn't make logical sense either (if you need it to map to multiple 
real addresses, you can use /etc/mail/aliases as well, but that's another 
discussion...)

> 100% windows users - command line is very scary to them ....I'll
> prbably have to do some sort of samba share to the virt file or
> something - just so they can edit in notepad....  sigh

Remember that notepad will probably add ^M's to the end of the lines 
(there's windows text files and then there's unix text files...)  That 
will probably induce breakage.  Safer might be a web/CGI form.  Then your 
cgi controls the file format (and can do input validation).  Or you can 
look at those webby system-management tools (Linuxconf was one I remember 
from a long time ago) - it might be able to edit virtuser from the web.

From tclug at beitsahour.net  Wed Jan 26 11:24:03 2005
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:28:18 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
Message-ID: <41F7D233.1090009@beitsahour.net>

Tom Marble wrote:
> Bob:
> 
> As the offical and democratically elected leader of TCLUG

hmm... i thought Clay was our official and democratically elected leader.

I was also under the impression that he is already getting freebies from 
OReilly as well having discount cards for schtuff from Oreilly.

but then again, memory is such a frail thing... too much ESD.

--
Munir Nassar

From tmarble at info9.net  Wed Jan 26 11:52:37 2005
From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:53:09 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <41F7D233.1090009@beitsahour.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net> <41F7D233.1090009@beitsahour.net>
Message-ID: <41F7D8E5.8080905@info9.net>

Munir Nassar wrote:
> hmm... i thought Clay was our official and democratically elected leader.
My assertion was really intended to be lighthearted as I wasn't sure ;-)

> I was also under the impression that he is already getting freebies from
> OReilly as well having discount cards for schtuff from Oreilly.
That's great if we are already signed up....  If so, Clay,
can you confirm?  And, if so, could you ask marsee@oreilly.com to add us to the list?

If not it would be great if Clay (or Bob, or...) would go ahead
and fill out the form.  I'd be glad to do it if no-one else is interested
in doing it.  Clearly they want a "group leader".

Sincerely,

--Tom

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 12:01:53 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:09:45 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail server - translate fake TO: address to a real
	one.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501261104100.26342@titan>
References: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501260924320.26342@titan>
	<65293fcc050126085518a3c7d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501261104100.26342@titan>
Message-ID: <65293fcc05012610016789eb1a@mail.gmail.com>

> 
> The bogus entries (left-hand side) need to be unique - you can have as
> many as you want, as long as they are unique.  This doesn't work:
> 
> sales@bogus.com         sales@real.com
> sales@bogus.com         service@real.com
> 

Cool - I'll have unique bogus ones for sure.  

> Remember that notepad will probably add ^M's to the end of the lines
> (there's windows text files and then there's unix text files...)  That
> will probably induce breakage.  Safer might be a web/CGI form.  Then your
> cgi controls the file format (and can do input validation).  Or you can
> look at those webby system-management tools (Linuxconf was one I remember
> from a long time ago) - it might be able to edit virtuser from the web.

Good point - I've had this problem in the past (^M) it's always a major PAIN... 

I'll check those web interface type things and/or roll a cgi (I think
I have one from a past life/job)

Again - Thanks!

From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Jan 26 11:58:04 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:09:56 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net>
Message-ID: <20050126175804.GB7206@wookimus.net>

Tom Marble wrote:
> As the offical and democratically elected leader of TCLUG
> I would like to appeal to you to fill out the form for us to join
> the O'Reilly User Group & Professional Association Program.
>   http://ug.oreilly.com/
> ...[SNIP]...
> Why?
>  **** 20% UG member discount on all O'Reilly products and conferences
>     * weekly newsletter
>     * quarterly catalogs
>     * O'Reilly speakers

Oh, by all gods large and small, here it is...  To sign up, you must
subscribe their newsletter to the list, at least that's how the TCWUG
group has it set up.  Additionally, they have not used the mailman
"topics" feature to label it as "advertisement".

Please do not cave in to this request, or if you do, place the crappy
advertisement newsletter on another list.  IMHO, newsletters should be
sent out to INDIVIDUALS, not lists, on a subscription basis only.

>     * review copies of O'Reilly products
>     * donations of books and other promo items

Yay.  How gracious a trade off for voluntary SPAM.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From adam at whee.org  Wed Jan 26 12:34:28 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:48:09 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail server - translate fake TO: address to a real
	one.
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc05012610016789eb1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc05012607236f300edc@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501260924320.26342@titan>
	<65293fcc050126085518a3c7d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501261104100.26342@titan>
	<65293fcc05012610016789eb1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501261233460.26342@titan>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, John Meier wrote:

> Good point - I've had this problem in the past (^M) it's always a major 
> PAIN...

I think you mean, a ^Major pain.  Silly ^Microsoft.

From jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us  Wed Jan 26 12:51:28 2005
From: jstuart at edenpr.k12.mn.us (Joe Stuart)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:56:24 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [TCLUG] routing problem
Message-ID: <s1f7925b.065@edenpr.k12.mn.us>

Thanks again for your help.

Joe

>>> Dan Rue <drue@therub.org> 01/26/05 10:39AM >>>
Ack sorry I completely forgot. 

Looking at my AP, I'm set to "AP Mode: Access Point".  I have the
linksys 802.11b wap only (no router stuff) - so your setup will be
different.  Here's an abbreviated diagram of my setup

             |
             |
         DSL Modem
             |
      OpenBSD Firewall
       |            |
   10.0.1.1/24  10.0.0.1/24
       |            |
  WAP 10.0.1.2     LAN
       |
       |
 DHCP 10.0.1.10-10.0.1.200
 DHCP is handled by the firewall

The WAP does nothing but "Access Point" - no dhcp, no NAT, no routing
-
it's all passed to the firewall.  The WAP is a wireless hub.

Hope that helps, 
dan

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 08:19:45AM -0600, Joe Stuart wrote:
> Dan,
> Sorry for bothering you, but did you happen to check your config of
the
> linksys router?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> >>> drue@therub.org 01/14/05 11:07AM >>>
> I don't think it calls it bridge mode.  I'll look at mine when I get
> home.  The thing you can't do with a wrt54g is set it up to bridge
> another WAP.  But the behavior you need is certainly possible.
> 
> Again, i'll look tonight and let you know,
> 
> dan
> 
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 01:19:34PM -0600, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> > I've not used one, but a firmware upgrade *might* help there.
Others
> > will be more helpful in this area.
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:05:18 -0600 (CST), Garrett Krueger
> > <gkrueger@cleosci.com> wrote:
> > > You'll have to "admin" your way into the router, and you may
have
> to do
> > > this by way of telnet.  I know several of the router's web
> interfaces do
> > > not completely let you configure some of the options.
> > > 
> > > Inside of the telnet screen there is probably some sort of
"mode"
> option
> > > which will refer to bridge mode as "bridge mode" or "pass
through
> mode" or
> > > something of that nature.
> > > 
> > > > That makes sense thanks.  The only problem I have is that I
> cannot
> > > > figure out how to turn the router into bridge mode.  The model
of
> the
> > > > router is wrt54g it's the 4-port switch, router, wap. The
> linksys
> > > > website has nothing that I can find on it. Found some
> conversations on
> > > > google groups, but it was only of people saying it couldnt be
> done.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
> http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> > > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test
http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> 
> > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > John T. Hoffoss
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home:
http://plone.mn-linux.org 
> 
> > Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery

> > tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> Help beta test TCLUG's potential new home: http://plone.mn-linux.org

> Got pictures for TCLUG? Beta test http://plone.mn-linux.org/gallery 
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org 
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 13:18:12 2005
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:23:10 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <20050126175804.GB7206@wookimus.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net> <20050126175804.GB7206@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <2c6699da050126111848247191@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:58:04 -0600, Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net> wrote:

> Oh, by all gods large and small, here it is...  To sign up, you must
> subscribe their newsletter to the list

Not true, you can also post it to the website or some other shared
resource.  You could also create a group (oreilly-spam?) and post it
there, for those who wanted to read it.  Spamming the list is an
option, but not the only option.

> Additionally, they have not used the mailman
> "topics" feature to label it as "advertisement".

TCWUG doesn't, but that doesn't mean you can't.  If TCLUG optioned to
spam the list, it could be done in a way that procmail can filter.

> Please do not cave in to this request, or if you do, place the crappy
> advertisement newsletter on another list.  IMHO, newsletters should be
> sent out to INDIVIDUALS, not lists, on a subscription basis only.

Again, an option.  O'Reilly doesn't ask you to annoy the crap out of
people, if that's what you think they do.

> >     * review copies of O'Reilly products
> >     * donations of books and other promo items

> Yay.  How gracious a trade off for voluntary SPAM.

I hope you're being sarcastic.  The O'Reilly people are awesome to
work with and very accomodating.  O'Reilly doesn't tell you to force
anything at anyone, just make their newsletters available.  What
O'Reilly gives away FAR exceeds what they ask.  Need some free crap
for a meeting?  Just ask, O'Reilly will send you whatever you want. 
Want a free book?  Ask for it, write a review, and submit it back to
O'Reilly.  They are a very forgiving company and want to support LUGs
in any way they can.  Every so often I get a box of free books that I
didn't ask for, how cool is that?

By all means, I think every LUG should be an O'Reilly affiliate.

-Brian

From tmarble at info9.net  Wed Jan 26 13:21:01 2005
From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:23:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Let's join as an O'Reilly user group for 20% off
In-Reply-To: <20050126175804.GB7206@wookimus.net>
References: <41F7CAA7.1060208@info9.net> <20050126175804.GB7206@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <41F7ED9D.7000609@info9.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Oh, by all gods large and small, here it is...  To sign up, you must
> subscribe their newsletter to the list, at least that's how the TCWUG
> group has it set up.  Additionally, they have not used the mailman
> "topics" feature to label it as "advertisement".
Although this is not obvious from the registration form, let's just
assume that some group or list alias is a requirement and that they
will send some promotional material.

Even though it would make sense to use advanced features such
as mailman topics I suspect it is unrealistic to expect them to do so.

> Please do not cave in to this request, or if you do, place the crappy
> advertisement newsletter on another list.  IMHO, newsletters should be
> sent out to INDIVIDUALS, not lists, on a subscription basis only.
I agree that sending promotional information to lists is a little
abusive.

How about this as a compromise:  We create a new list, such as:
  tclug-promotions@mn-linux.org
which gets treated and managed in the exact same way as
the existing mailing lists.  Members could then subscribe to this list
on an "opt-in" basis.  Researchers of unsolicited mail, such as
Sk3tch, may find this useful as well.

Thoughts?

--Tom

P.S. By the way I thought our lists were going to be archived on gmane
     now, but these seem out of date (no posts since 1/17)?
       http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug
     However the traditional location seems to be up to date:
       http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2005-January/thread.html

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Jan 26 18:09:27 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed Jan 26 18:13:16 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501270009.j0R09Rd21889@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: 2 Port Trendnet KVM no cables

Free to good home - terribly designed but functional 2 port trendnet kvm switch originally from general nano.  No cables are included.  Pick up in west metro, Dan Rue (drue at therub dot org)

Seller Email address: drue at therub dot org

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From skodak at cs.umn.edu  Thu Jan 27 00:59:41 2005
From: skodak at cs.umn.edu (Sreekumar Kodakara)
Date: Thu Jan 27 01:03:15 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Live CD Update
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501270056170.246@caesar.cs.umn.edu>

Hi,

After trying out 6 distros, the winner is Ubuntu. It works out of the box
with centrino laptops having 2200 BG wireless chipset. No problems what so
ever. If you have 2100 chipset then I assume Suse 9.2 will also work.

Sreekumar

From joel at joelschneider.net  Wed Jan 26 19:02:30 2005
From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider)
Date: Thu Jan 27 01:18:14 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20050127010230.GA28511@joelschneider.net>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 01:34:55PM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote:
> My view on this has always been that if you're replying to a message
> posted to the list, the default behavior should be for your reply to go
> back to the mailing list; if you want to change that behavior, you'll have
> to do something different. It's always seemed perfectly obvious to me..

Same here.

--
Joel Schneider
joel@joelschneider.net


From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Thu Jan 27 08:36:34 2005
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Thu Jan 27 08:38:18 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
Message-ID: <s1f8a81a.017@mdh-gw1.health.state.mn.us>

>>> Joel Schneider <joel@joelschneider.net> 01/26/05 7:02 PM >>>
>On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 01:34:55PM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote:
>> My view on this has always been that if you're replying to a message
>> posted to the list, the default behavior should be for your reply to
go
>> back to the mailing list; if you want to change that behavior, you'll
have
>> to do something different. It's always seemed perfectly obvious to
me..
>Same here.
Indeed.

From sraun at fireopal.org  Thu Jan 27 10:03:20 2005
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:08:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20050127160320.GA18802@fireopal.org>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 01:34:55PM -0600, Nate Carlson wrote:
> My view on this has always been that if you're replying to a message
> posted to the list, the default behavior should be for your reply to
> go back to the mailing list; if you want to change that behavior,
> you'll have to do something different. It's always seemed perfectly
> obvious to me..

For the most part, I agree.

I can expand on this a little - let's take the question out of the
technical arena and into the social.  What is the goal of the list?
To help maintain community cohesiveness, or disseminate information?

If the role is community, the all replies going to the list by default
is good behavior.  It's kind of like being at a party - if you want to
have a private discussion there, you have to go through extra work to
have it.  If a list is part of - or maybe _is_ - the community, and
exists to help keep the community together, replies go to it.

If the role is purely informational, then replying to the original
sender can be a preferred option.  A friend of mine told me of the one
list he knew of where reply-to-sender actually worked - it was a
high-volume OS list (Sun, IIRC), where the tradition was:

1) Ask a question
2) Everyone with input replies directly to you
3) After you've gotten a bunch of answers, you summarize the answers,
   and explain what worked for you, in a follow-up message

If I join an mailing list, it's because I want to be part of that
community.  Why should we make participating in the community more
difficult or onerous?

FWIW, I use mutt, mutt knows this is a list - so, I hit R for reply,
go 'grrr', cancel the message, and THEN hit L for list-reply.  I would
prefer Reply-To be set to the list - R goes to the list, if I want the
individual, I hit N and mutt pops up with the original sender.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun@fireopal.org

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Jan 27 10:19:22 2005
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:23:20 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050127160320.GA18802@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501271018270.25128-100000@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Scott Raun wrote:
> I can expand on this a little - let's take the question out of the
> technical arena and into the social.  What is the goal of the list?
> To help maintain community cohesiveness, or disseminate information?

 Personally, I think the goal is to disseminate information to the 
community.  Not trying to be difficult, but... :)

     Jima


From veldy at veldy.net  Thu Jan 27 10:51:43 2005
From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:53:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <41F91C1F.9000309@veldy.net>

Nate Carlson wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Ryan O'Rourke wrote:
>  
>
>>Can someone please explain to me why it might be preferential to have
>>the default set to reply only to an individual and not to the entire
>>list?
>>    
>>
>
>I happen to think it's very broken behavior myself; but users who aren't
>used to mailing lists seem to expect that when they click "Reply", it will
>go to the person, and when they click "Reply All", it will go to the list.  
>*shrugs*
>
>Personally, it annoys the heck out of me to get a direct copy of the
>message instead of just receiving it through the listserv. Procmail rules
>on List-Id don't work very well on direct replies, after all!
>
>  
>
Yes, most people expect that a reply to a message should be on-list.  I 
think it should follow the newsgroup reply ettiquette personally.  If 
you asked a question on-linst, you should expect a response on-list.  
Others, while not actively participating in the communication are very 
likely interested in the entire conversation.

-- 
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 07C7 BF05 4176 F50B A083  4542 0118 1315 761F D300
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.


From smac at visi.com  Thu Jan 27 11:31:58 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:33:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] OH WoW!
Message-ID: <1106847118.41f9258e4c2fb@my.visi.com>

I was off the list for a few days so I'm picking this up in the middle.

I feel when a reply is done the information should go to everyone on the list.
I keep a log book (folders in Tbird) and catagorize the fix or feature in my log
book. If I don't get the fix/feature in a reply I wont be able to update my log
book. I refer to my log book then google, etc..., then I ask the list.

Sam.





From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Jan 27 12:10:19 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:13:21 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Mailing lists suck.
In-Reply-To: <20050127160320.GA18802@fireopal.org>
References: <1106215733.31911.121.camel@bigtime>
	<20050120145723.GG30005@sherohman.org>
	<41F178D0.40806@ryanorourke.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501211658480.19125@enchanter.real-time.com>
	<1106363895.31911.190.camel@bigtime>
	<20050122191318.GB19954@sherohman.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0501221327480.22336@conformity.technicality.org>
	<20050127160320.GA18802@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501271150540.29054@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Scott Raun wrote:

> A friend of mine told me of the one list he knew of where 
> reply-to-sender actually worked - it was a high-volume OS list (Sun, 
> IIRC), where the tradition was:
>
> 1) Ask a question
> 2) Everyone with input replies directly to you
> 3) After you've gotten a bunch of answers, you summarize the answers,
>   and explain what worked for you, in a follow-up message


In some sense "it worked" but it might have worked better if they had not 
done it that way.  When replies go to the sender and are compiled by the 
sender, he might find that he gets 10 identical replies.  That means that 
9 people wasted their time and they would not have wasted their time if 
the first person had sent his reply to the list.

Another defect in that system is that list readers don't see the replies 
until they are posted by the interrogator.  Once they've see them, they 
may add some improvements/corrections/etc.  Thus, the compiled response is 
not the last word.  Some people might withhold their reply until they've 
seen some of the others.

Yet another defect in that system is that people might not reply because 
they think someone else must have replied.  If replies go to the list, we 
know what has been said and we know if we have something to add.

I think reply to list is much better and we should stick with it.

I'm not sure what has changed here.  I use pine, I reply to all, and then 
snip out addresses I don't want to send to.  It seems like I do this same 
thing on most every list.

Best,

Mike

-- 
Michael B. Miller, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Division of Epidemiology and Community Health
and Institute of Human Genetics
University of Minnesota
http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Jan 27 13:48:56 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:53:19 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501271948.j0RJmu304740@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: Used Broadband router (wired or 802.11b)

Does anyone have an old router/firewall appliance they'd part with for $10-$30?  Linksys/Dlink/whatever, wired is ok, 802.11b would be outstanding.  Want to pick up ASAP.

Seller Email address: drue at therub dot org

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From ajaybehl at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 14:45:58 2005
From: ajaybehl at gmail.com (Ajay S. Behl)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:48:20 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [For Sale] HP Laserjet 1100;
	Motorola WiFi USB 2.0 Adapter
Message-ID: <d0cea1905012712455cae758f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All:

I want to sell off the HP Laserjet 1100 that I won at Smith
MicroTech's auction.  It is perfectly fine - it is just that I want a
Laserjet 4/6.

Also: Motorola USB 2.0 Wireless Adapter.  I used it for around a week
because I wired up the network connection for the desktop that was
using it.

Make a reasonable offer and I will take it.

Thanks!

Cheers! :o)

Ajay

behl0026 AT umn dot edu

From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Fri Jan 28 07:46:39 2005
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm)
Date: Fri Jan 28 07:48:29 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] bequeathability
Message-ID: <1106919998.6463.1286.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>

hi folks,

when i put forward my proposal to bring our website & email inhouse, the
director's concerns were cost, security, and bequeathability.  i think i
can address the first 2 fairly well.

perhaps what we need for the 3rd is a short list of qualified
consultants ready and willing to step in and manage our server if
anything should happen to me.

my proposal is for a linux server, entirely on the merits of having
quality services under our own control.  i don't broach M$ vs open
source, that's not within the horizon of concern of the organization.

but i guess now i need to prepare a list of folk, who know (whitebox)
linux and M$, not so much to "sell linux" within the organization, but
really to sell the safety and sensibility of having the services
inhouse.

..comments?  thoughts?  resumes?

thank you,
greg
-- 
Gregory Whitley Mott
IT Coordinator
NonviolentPeaceforce.org


From smac at visi.com  Fri Jan 28 08:32:48 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Fri Jan 28 08:33:28 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] bequeathability
In-Reply-To: <1106919998.6463.1286.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
References: <1106919998.6463.1286.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
Message-ID: <1106922768.41fa4d10c3c94@my.visi.com>

Have you had problems with your hosting service?

If so I would recomend you switch to Real Time, this way you have one of the
best Linux "teams" around taking care of your web and email. This way you can
work with the Real Time team, take care of everything until you go on vacation
or what ever, then Real Time can fill-in for your for a small fee if needed.
If you get hit by a bus the director will know the Real Time team can continue
the same great service you provide!

Just a thought,
Sam.


Quoting gregwm <tclug@greatlakedata.com>:

> hi folks,
>
> when i put forward my proposal to bring our website & email inhouse, the
> director's concerns were cost, security, and bequeathability.  i think i
> can address the first 2 fairly well.
>
> perhaps what we need for the 3rd is a short list of qualified
> consultants ready and willing to step in and manage our server if
> anything should happen to me.
>
> my proposal is for a linux server, entirely on the merits of having
> quality services under our own control.  i don't broach M$ vs open
> source, that's not within the horizon of concern of the organization.
>
> but i guess now i need to prepare a list of folk, who know (whitebox)
> linux and M$, not so much to "sell linux" within the organization, but
> really to sell the safety and sensibility of having the services
> inhouse.
>
> ..comments?  thoughts?  resumes?
>
> thank you,
> greg
> --
> Gregory Whitley Mott
> IT Coordinator
> NonviolentPeaceforce.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>




From seg at haxxed.com  Fri Jan 28 14:13:58 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:18:30 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] PGP!
Message-ID: <1106943238.25111.89.camel@bigtime>

Hey, on the upside apparently the new list doesn't barf on PGP
signatures anymore.
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Jan 28 15:34:30 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri Jan 28 15:38:31 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501282134.j0SLYUL23060@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 with accessories.

Very gently used device. Accessories include:  Piel Frama custom leather case, Battery charger with extra battery, D-link Air wireless compact flash card, Serial cable, and of course the Cradle. $150.00.

Seller Email address: joebe at charter dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From john.meier at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 17:32:48 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:33:31 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
Message-ID: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>

Ok - I got a buddy who wants to limit his daughters online time ... 
in his words:

"...I want to limit im time, see all im messages to and from, see all
emails, and see all websites visited

She's caught on to most of our checking up tricks, and puts the
computer back online with ipconfig /renew...."

He was checking into key stroke loggers - software to run on the
computer where he could later check all text in IM and Web
browsing....

I suggested putting the computer in a high traffic area - so that
everyone knows when anyone is online - also suggested removing the
power cord during offline times.

I also mentioned setting up something like ipcop where he could run a
proxy like squid and block stuff etc....

Any other suggestions or software recommendations ?

From chewie at wookimus.net  Fri Jan 28 17:51:14 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:53:32 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050128235114.GA25044@wookimus.net>

John Meier wrote:
> "...I want to limit im time, see all im messages to and from, see all
> emails, and see all websites visited

Damn.  I hope I never get that bad.

> She's caught on to most of our checking up tricks, and puts the
> computer back online with ipconfig /renew...."

Yay!  You go girl!

> He was checking into key stroke loggers - software to run on the
> computer where he could later check all text in IM and Web
> browsing....

Bad idea.  Too much information, essentially.

> I suggested putting the computer in a high traffic area - so that
> everyone knows when anyone is online

The best suggestion.

> - also suggested removing the power cord during offline times.

Not a good idea.  Too hands-on.

> I also mentioned setting up something like ipcop where he could run a
> proxy like squid and block stuff etc....

ipcop might be nice.  I would definitely suggest a box running squid
with user authentication and time-based acl's.  Additionally, I would
run a jabber server for instant messaging.  Block all IM except that
originating from the jabber server.  From there, you could log chat
information a lot easier, though you may have to hack the server.  I
believe it's written with privacy in mind.  Bonus, you can IM your
family members wherever they are. ;-)

I think you can do time-based firewalling/routing, if only through cron,
but you can enforce mac address filtering using iptables.  She may get
smart enough to spoof her mac address, though.

What about a capture portal based setup?  She connects with her machine
and must register/log in via a website.  That application can regulate
routing rules based on user account and do time limiting, etc.

Your friend is going to have to become a routing guru and programmer to
get what he wants, I'm afraid. ;-)  Unless there are some nice utilities
out there.

Anyway, gotta go.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Fri Jan 28 18:06:08 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:08:32 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
In-Reply-To: <20050128235114.GA25044@wookimus.net>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050128235114.GA25044@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <20050129000608.GB25044@wookimus.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> What about a capture portal based setup?  She connects with her
> machine and must register/log in via a website.  That application can
> regulate routing rules based on user account and do time limiting,
> etc.

Hmm...  You'll have to be careful about blocking other protocols as
well.  She could probably open up a promiscuous nic and sniff out valid
IP addresses.  I hope she does. ;-)

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Jan 28 18:14:40 2005
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:18:32 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] monitoring kid's computer use (was "O/T key
 logger and/or kid spyer")
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501281801440.13419@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005, John Meier wrote:

> Ok - I got a buddy who wants to limit his daughters online time ... in 
> his words:
>
> "...I want to limit im time, see all im messages to and from, see all 
> emails, and see all websites visited


I didn't want to steal your thread so I made a new one.

I have a son who is almost 13 years old.  I'm wondering if it would be 
wise to monitor what he does.  I'm not sure what the arguments are about 
this, but I'd guess it's something like "pedophiles trick children into 
meeting them, then they kill or abuse the kids" versus "even children 
should have their privacy."  Are there more angles to this debate?

My feeling, right now, is that kids want to be able to communicate openly 
with friends and do things that are not allowed by parents.  They need to 
do *some* things that parents don't allow, don't they?  Our parents didn't 
monitor our phone calls, right?  What are the chances that unmonitored 
computer use will cause serious damage to a teenager?

Obviously, the internet is loaded with porn and it isn't hard for kids to 
find it, if that's what they want.  The stuff I could get at when I was a 
kid was much more tame (e.g., Playboy, Penthouse or sometimes Hustler). 
Still, does the porn harm the child?  We might think it is wrong, but I 
have to wonder how badly kids are affected by it.

We all want to guide our kids - lead them into happy productive lives and 
we would feel badly if they took a wrong turn and we did nothing.  On the 
other hand, we know that if we push too hard we can get resistance that 
harms them even more.  Where to draw the line?

I'm sorry if this will turn into a massive unending argument.  That's not 
what I want.  I'd rather be directed to some good resources, or maybe you 
can reply with brief thoughts on this either on- or off-list.

Best,

Mike

-- 
Michael B. Miller, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Division of Epidemiology and Community Health
and Institute of Human Genetics
University of Minnesota
http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/

From glim at mycybernet.net  Fri Jan 28 22:05:00 2005
From: glim at mycybernet.net (glim@mycybernet.net)
Date: Fri Jan 28 22:08:34 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Yet Another Perl Conference North America 2005
	announces call-for-papers
Message-ID: <m1Cujoo-000XI0C@mail.cybrnet.net>

   YAPC::NA 2005 (Yet Another Perl Conference, North America) has just
   released its call-for-papers; potential and aspiring speakers can
   submit a presentation proposal via:

         http://yapc.org/America/cfp-2005.shtml

   The dates of the conference are Monday - Wednesday 27-29 June 2005.
   The location will be in downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (Note that
   a different date block was previously announced, but has been moved to
   accomodate venue availability.)

   The close of the call-for-papers is April 18, 2005 at 11:59 pm.

   If you have any questions regarding the call-for-papers or speaking at
   YAPC::NA 2005 please email na-author@yapc.org

   We would love to hear from potential sponsors. Please contact the
   organizers at na-sponsor@yapc.org to learn about the benefits of
   sponsorship.

   Other information regarding the conference (e.g. venue, registration
   specifics) will be announced soon.

   We look forward to your submissions and a great conference!



From seg at haxxed.com  Fri Jan 28 23:12:20 2005
From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick)
Date: Fri Jan 28 23:12:32 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] monitoring kid's computer use (was "O/T key
	logger and/or kid spyer")
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501281801440.13419@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501281801440.13419@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1106975540.25111.147.camel@bigtime>

> I have a son who is almost 13 years old.  I'm wondering if it would be 
> wise to monitor what he does.  I'm not sure what the arguments are about 
> this, but I'd guess it's something like "pedophiles trick children into 
> meeting them, then they kill or abuse the kids" versus "even children 
> should have their privacy."  Are there more angles to this debate?

Well, the number #1 rule kids should have drilled into their skill
before being allowed near internet, is don't give out any identifying
information, ever, without checking with parents first. They should know
not to give out last names, or even their first, don't give out
addresses, phone numbers, where they go to school, etc.

Note, there's some COPPA thing now that has some strict rules about
collecting information from those younger than 13.

Pedophiles trolling are pretty obvious if you have any common sense at
all...

Personally I'd just keep them away from public chats of any kind until
they're maybe 16-17. Let them use IM with friends they know in person,
encourage them to use the web to research whatever topics may interest
them. And maybe use webboards after you've checked them out first.

The pervs seem to hang out on the general #teenchat type things, and
they single out whoever comes along in private chat. The kids don't know
better, and since its not public in the channel no one else sees whats
going on. Webboards don't tend to allow this behavior. 

Its the being singled out in private chats with strangers thats the
dangerous thing. These types of people tend to be adept at manipulating
kids one-on-one.

But to a parent, it should be obvious. Just keep an eye on them.

Basically, check things out yourself first.

> My feeling, right now, is that kids want to be able to communicate openly 
> with friends and do things that are not allowed by parents.  They need to 
> do *some* things that parents don't allow, don't they?  Our parents didn't 
> monitor our phone calls, right?  What are the chances that unmonitored 
> computer use will cause serious damage to a teenager?

Personally, I'd want to have a non-adversarial relationship with my kids
such that they DIDN'T feel they had to hide stuff from me, and thus
monitoring them wouldn't be a big deal. Kids should respect you because
of your knowledge, accomplishments and experience, not fear you.

I really don't think kids *need* to do things their parents forbid. Its
just what happens when you refuse to bridge the generation gap and have
an understanding and non-adversarial relationship with your kids.

> Obviously, the internet is loaded with porn and it isn't hard for kids to 
> find it, if that's what they want.  The stuff I could get at when I was a 
> kid was much more tame (e.g., Playboy, Penthouse or sometimes Hustler). 
> Still, does the porn harm the child?  We might think it is wrong, but I 
> have to wonder how badly kids are affected by it.

The fact that its forbidden only makes it all the more enticing.

All the friends of mine who weren't raised to think porn is evil, are
the ones least interested in it.

> We all want to guide our kids - lead them into happy productive lives and 
> we would feel badly if they took a wrong turn and we did nothing.  On the 
> other hand, we know that if we push too hard we can get resistance that 
> harms them even more.  Where to draw the line?

True learning only happens after you've done it wrong...
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From dru at druswanderings.net  Sat Jan 29 00:24:35 2005
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Sat Jan 29 00:23:35 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41FB2C23.3030402@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

John Meier wrote:
| Ok - I got a buddy who wants to limit his daughters online time ...
| in his words:
|
<snipped desires>

I haven't actually used it (yet), but I came across this[1] the other
day.  It might be worth checking in to.

[1] http://www.safesquid.com

- --
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Sat Jan 29 01:02:23 2005
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Sat Jan 29 01:03:35 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1106982143.479032.32386.1001@home>

John Meier writes:

> Ok - I got a buddy who wants to limit his daughters online time ... 
> in his words:

so limit it, tell her not to go online as much.

> "...I want to limit im time, see all im messages to and from, see all
> emails, and see all websites visited

god gawds... why? WHY?

caring about what your child sees online, sure. But rather than using 
technological means to patch the problem why not fix the problem outright. 
Talk to the kid, listen, explain, trust.

They are going to porn online at some point or another, dont you think it 
would be better for them to know how to deal ahead of time?

As for monitoring chat sessions, talk to them, explain the dangers so when 
pedophileX comes along they know how to say "no."

> She's caught on to most of our checking up tricks, and puts the
> computer back online with ipconfig /renew...."

heh, you can never stop a determined person from getting online. if all else 
failed there is always IP over Avian Carrier.

> He was checking into key stroke loggers - software to run on the
> computer where he could later check all text in IM and Web
> browsing....

bah. and she can never trust her parents again.

> I suggested putting the computer in a high traffic area - so that
> everyone knows when anyone is online - also suggested removing the
> power cord during offline times.

because power cords are so expensive, she could never buy her own.

> I also mentioned setting up something like ipcop where he could run a
> proxy like squid and block stuff etc....
> 
> Any other suggestions or software recommendations ?

rather than protecting them, empower them to protect themselves. works much 
better in the long run.

--
Munir Nassar

From stutterstutt at comcast.net  Sat Jan 29 10:15:42 2005
From: stutterstutt at comcast.net (Jeff Nelson)
Date: Sat Jan 29 10:18:39 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] System hang on disk I/O
Message-ID: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net>

A system I built about a month ago is hanging whenever I do any 
significant disk I/O. In particular, the system will hang when I use tar 
to transfer a bunch of files from an NTFS-formatted disk to a 
reiserfs-formatted disk (using tar). This is a hard hang -- the mouse 
pointer freezes and nothing except a hardware reset will bring the 
system back.

There was an earlier hang that was resolved. When I was installing SuSE 
9.2 the system would hang while installing the software packages from 
the DVD-RW drive. I goggled and found there is a known problem with the 
ASUS A7N8X-E motherboard: the workaround is to add the boot option 
"acpi_skip_timer_override". Apparently this is fixed in kernel 2.6.10, 
but I haven't seen that available yet. I'm still running 2.6.8-24.10.

I've added just one PCI card, a Promise Technology disk controller, with 
two disks (one on each controller). The motherboard primary IDE 
controller has 2 disks as well; the secondary controller has just a 
DVD-RW. The video card is an AGP GeForce FX 5500.

Here's output of lspci. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.

-Jeff

linux:~ # lspci
0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AGP (different version?) (rev c1)
0000:00:00.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 1 (rev c1)
0000:00:00.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 4 (rev c1)
0000:00:00.3 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 3 (rev c1)
0000:00:00.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 2 (rev c1)
0000:00:00.5 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 5 (rev c1)
0000:00:01.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 ISA Bridge (rev a4)
0000:00:01.1 SMBus: nVidia Corporation nForce2 SMBus (MCP) (rev a2)
0000:00:02.0 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 USB Controller (rev a4)
0000:00:02.1 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 USB Controller (rev a4)
0000:00:02.2 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 USB Controller (rev a4)
0000:00:04.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Ethernet Controller (rev a1)
0000:00:05.0 Multimedia audio controller: nVidia Corporation nForce MultiMedia audio [Via VT82C686B] (rev a2)
0000:00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AC97 AudioControler (MCP) (rev a1)
0000:00:08.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 External PCI Bridge (rev a3)
0000:00:09.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation nForce2 IDE (rev a2)
0000:00:0d.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): nVidia Corporation nForce2 FireWire (IEEE 1394) Controller (rev a3)
0000:00:1e.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AGP (rev c1)
0000:01:04.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. Yukon Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000Base-T Adapter (rev 13)
0000:01:08.0 Unknown mass storage controller: Promise Technology, Inc. PDC20268(Ultra100 TX2) (rev 02)
0000:01:0b.0 RAID bus controller: Silicon Image, Inc. (formerly CMD Technology Inc) SiI 3112 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA Controller (rev
02)
0000:03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5500] (rev a1)




From john.meier at gmail.com  Sat Jan 29 10:51:43 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Sat Jan 29 10:53:39 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
In-Reply-To: <cone.1106982143.479032.32386.1001@home>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1106982143.479032.32386.1001@home>
Message-ID: <65293fcc05012908517e7b2ba2@mail.gmail.com>

This is going further off topic but - 
A bit more digging and I find out the real reasons for monitoring...

> 
> > "...I want to limit im time, see all im messages to and from, see all
> > emails, and see all websites visited
> 
> god gawds... why? WHY?
>

And I quote:
"....A "bad" website hasn't been accessed for a long time; I think
that curiosity is beyond her now.  The biggest concern right now is
aim'ing.  She's hooked and spends way too much time chatting with
anyone and working on her damn buddy profile.  I discovered she had a
picture of herself on there...
She's not that smart about trying to get around the parental's
controls, and is very forthcoming when we ask what she's up to.  She
gets bored and has recently started chatting with strangers which is
alarming.  ...."

"....So basically I'm looking for chat monitoring software that will only
allow conversation with buddies we know and will schedule when chat
will work and when it won't...."

I agree that empowering anyone with knowledge is the best defense you
can give - I have suggested as much - but at the same time some safe
guards may be appropriate. Kinda like you wouldn't drop off your child
6 blocks from school in a dark alley at night and let them walk the
rest of the way - just to attend a lock-in or something.... probably
not a good example, but hope you catch the drift....  you do what you
can to an extend to make sure they are relatively safe - let them
learn the lessons when the consequences are not life threatening or
life endangering.

From chewie at wookimus.net  Sat Jan 29 10:57:00 2005
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sat Jan 29 10:58:40 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] System hang on disk I/O
In-Reply-To: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net>
References: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20050129165659.GA4929@wookimus.net>

Jeff Nelson wrote:
> In particular, the system will hang when I use tar to transfer a bunch
> of files from an NTFS-formatted disk to a reiserfs-formatted disk
> (using tar).

Historically, Linux has had crappy NTFS support.  Since you mentioned
using tar to transfer, I'm assuming this a read operation.  That should
be O.K., but you never know.  I'd stay away from write operations on the
NTFS system if possible.

> I goggled and found there is a known problem with the ASUS A7N8X-E
> motherboard: the workaround is to add the boot option
> "acpi_skip_timer_override". Apparently this is fixed in kernel 2.6.10,
> but I haven't seen that available yet. I'm still running 2.6.8-24.10.

Update your kernel. ;-)

> I've added just one PCI card, a Promise Technology disk controller,
> with two disks (one on each controller).

Ick.  Promise controllers suck royally, IMHO.  Their standard IDE
controllers may be O.K., but my experience in working with their
software RAID cards has given me the general impression that you want to
stay away from Promise if you can.

> The motherboard primary IDE controller has 2 disks as well; the
> secondary controller has just a DVD-RW.

For performance reasons, I would consider moving one of your disks from
the Primary to the Secondary channel.

I know I didn't REALLY give you any great suggestions, but maybe the
NTFS info will be helpful.  I don't know the current state of the
project, but I would seriously make certain you

Google is your friend.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie@wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
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From smac at visi.com  Sat Jan 29 12:04:01 2005
From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald)
Date: Sat Jan 29 12:08:39 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Key Logger (Parenting 101)
Message-ID: <41FBD011.5040202@visi.com>

As a Dad of a 13 year old girl and a 10 year old boy, and as a Scout 
Leader, I have some input.
If a parent doesn't know what to do, they need to get some education. 
I'm a better parent because I've taken
training in how to work with kids. As an adult scout leader I take 
training 2 - 5 times every year. I also
teach new adult scout leaders how to work with kids.

I trust my kids to do the right thing, I make sure they know what the 
right thing is, I set the expectation.
My kids know if they do something they shouldn't, they have a consequence.

Using a Computer use is a *privilege* in our home, not a right.
I'm the only one in the house with any root or administrator passwords, 
the password are very complex
they include extended characters in windows (Alt+###).
If I need to do some administrative work, I'm the only one in the room.
Write up an acceptable use policy for home, *_everyone_* signs it, 
including Mom and Dad.
Include the results of violating the policy including removal of 
computer use or the computer.

Everyone has their own account and they have a password.
    Get rid of that stupid single click sign on in Windows, turn it off 
and disable the service.
The computers my kids use are XP, they are in the "*_Users_*" group 
_/*NOT*/_ the "_Administrators_" group.
    Installing software is something they _*can't*_ do.
    Running administrative tools is something they _*can't*_ do.
    Learn about Group Policy and USE it.
eMail is not an issue as We (the adults) have decided only the adults 
need email.
Instant Messaging is something NO ONE in the house is allowed to do, we 
don't allow it.
Talking to someone should be "talking to them" not "typing". My kids can 
use the phone in the kitchen any time.
If my son or daughter hacked to use the computer to do anything, I would 
remove it for a very long time.

Again using a computer is a PRIVILEGE not a right, say NO and mean it. 
Backup what you say with action.
Parents must be parents, we are not our children's friend, we must have 
rules and live by the rules.

If you don't want your children to drive over the speed limit, *_You_* 
must be the example.

Lastly; I make sure my kids know I love them, I tell them "I love you" 
every chance I get.

Sam.


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005


From stutterstutt at comcast.net  Sat Jan 29 13:08:57 2005
From: stutterstutt at comcast.net (Jeff Nelson)
Date: Sat Jan 29 13:13:41 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] System hang on disk I/O
In-Reply-To: <20050129165659.GA4929@wookimus.net>
References: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net> <20050129165659.GA4929@wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <41FBDF49.1020208@comcast.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:

>Historically, Linux has had crappy NTFS support.  Since you mentioned
>using tar to transfer, I'm assuming this a read operation.  That should
>be O.K., but you never know.  I'd stay away from write operations on the
>NTFS system if possible.
>  
>

Yes, the point of the file copy is to get away from NTFS. The NTFS disks 
are mounted read-only. Once the data are moved on to a reiserfs disk, 
the source disk will be initialized and then added to the logical volume 
group I'm building.

>Update your kernel. ;-)
>  
>
I've been waiting for 2.6.10 to become available through the YaST 
upgrade process. I haven't dived into the brave world of building my own 
kernel, but maybe I should.


>Ick.  Promise controllers suck royally, IMHO.  Their standard IDE
>controllers may be O.K., but my experience in working with their
>software RAID cards has given me the general impression that you want to
>stay away from Promise if you can.
>  
>
I hear you, but it's what I had available. Any reommendations on what 
should replace it? I really do need the IDE channels.

>For performance reasons, I would consider moving one of your disks from
>the Primary to the Secondary channel.
>  
>
Yeah, I plan to do that.

>I know I didn't REALLY give you any great suggestions, but maybe the
>NTFS info will be helpful.  I don't know the current state of the
>project, but I would seriously make certain you
>  
>
"...seriously make certain" I what?

The project is still early. I am being careful to not lose data. Each 
disk is 200gb, and I have an empty 200gb disk to copy onto. The source 
disk is mounted read-only.

Thanks for the suggestions.

-Jeff

From tclug at beitsahour.net  Sat Jan 29 16:35:45 2005
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Sat Jan 29 16:38:42 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1106982143.479032.32386.1001@home>
	<65293fcc05012908517e7b2ba2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1107038145.75589.32386.1001@home>

John Meier writes:

> And I quote:
> "....A "bad" website hasn't been accessed for a long time; I think
> that curiosity is beyond her now. The biggest concern right now is
> aim'ing.  She's hooked and spends way too much time chatting with
> anyone and working on her damn buddy profile.  I discovered she had a
> picture of herself on there...

ok, tell that it is best not have a picture of herself on there and explain 
why this is a bad idea.

> She's not that smart about trying to get around the parental's
> controls, and is very forthcoming when we ask what she's up to.  She
> gets bored and has recently started chatting with strangers which is
> alarming.  ...."

huh. Just as alarming as talking to strangers on mailing list?

i don't know you, i never met you... maybe i should just shutup now. because 
i don't know, you may be out to get me or something, or heaven forfend; get 
to know me.

maybe it is because i am not a parent, and maybe it is because i am an 
idealist, but i do not buy into the fear everybody and everything mentality, 
i do not believe that every stranger out there is out to get me or my 
family. i live in minneapolis proper and i do not lock my doors, even when i 
am not at home or sleeping.

and yes, i have woken up to see a complete stranger sleeping on my couch. 
and no it was not some wierdo who fell asleep while trying to steal my 
laptop or TV; but some college student who lost her way after a party.

> "....So basically I'm looking for chat monitoring software that will only
> allow conversation with buddies we know and will schedule when chat
> will work and when it won't...."

i do believe jabber will let you restrict to certain buddies and cron can 
turn jabber on and off. but i have never used so i cannot comment on it

> I agree that empowering anyone with knowledge is the best defense you
> can give - I have suggested as much - but at the same time some safe
> guards may be appropriate. Kinda like you wouldn't drop off your child
> 6 blocks from school in a dark alley at night and let them walk the
> rest of the way - just to attend a lock-in or something.... probably
> not a good example, but hope you catch the drift....  you do what you
> can to an extend to make sure they are relatively safe - let them
> learn the lessons when the consequences are not life threatening or
> life endangering.

and i do not believe that browsing the web and chating over the internet can 
kill you. nor is it the same thing as letting a child walk home from school 
in the middle of the night, but properly empowered and aged children can do 
that as well.

I know this is getting very OT here, but the questing of children in brought 
up on a fairly regular basis, so i do not think this thread should be killed 
just yet.

--
Munir Nassar


From tclug at beitsahour.net  Sat Jan 29 16:52:52 2005
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Sat Jan 29 16:53:41 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Key Logger (Parenting 101)
References: <41FBD011.5040202@visi.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1107039172.237152.10150.1001@home>

Ok, maybe this thread should die after all, i _so_ want to reply to this
message but i am afraid my fingers are only typing flames.

Sam MacDonald writes:
<Snip reply>

From linuser at esox.us  Sat Jan 29 18:32:01 2005
From: linuser at esox.us (Dave Erickson)
Date: Sat Jan 29 18:33:43 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] System hang on disk I/O
In-Reply-To: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net>
References: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <41FC2B01.3030609@esox.us>

Jeff Nelson wrote:
> A system I built about a month ago is hanging whenever I do any 
> significant disk I/O. In particular, the system will hang when I use tar 
> to transfer a bunch of files from an NTFS-formatted disk to a 
> reiserfs-formatted disk (using tar). This is a hard hang -- the mouse 
> pointer freezes and nothing except a hardware reset will bring the 
> system back.
> 
> There was an earlier hang that was resolved. When I was installing SuSE 
> 9.2 the system would hang while installing the software packages from 
> the DVD-RW drive. I goggled and found there is a known problem with the 
> ASUS A7N8X-E motherboard: the workaround is to add the boot option 
> "acpi_skip_timer_override". Apparently this is fixed in kernel 2.6.10, 
> but I haven't seen that available yet. I'm still running 2.6.8-24.10.
> 
> I've added just one PCI card, a Promise Technology disk controller, with 
> two disks (one on each controller). The motherboard primary IDE 
> controller has 2 disks as well; the secondary controller has just a 
> DVD-RW. The video card is an AGP GeForce FX 5500.
> 
> Here's output of lspci. Any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -Jeff

Jeff,

If possible, install the NTFS drive(s) into a windows box and copy via 
samba.

I did this while converting a computer from windows to Linux and it 
works really well.

Good Luck.


From bhurt at spnz.org  Sat Jan 29 20:14:39 2005
From: bhurt at spnz.org (Brian Hurt)
Date: Sat Jan 29 20:13:43 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] System hang on disk I/O
In-Reply-To: <41FBB6AE.50807@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501292013260.5563-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Jeff Nelson wrote:

> A system I built about a month ago is hanging whenever I do any 
> significant disk I/O. In particular, the system will hang when I use tar 
> to transfer a bunch of files from an NTFS-formatted disk to a 
> reiserfs-formatted disk (using tar). This is a hard hang -- the mouse 
> pointer freezes and nothing except a hardware reset will bring the 
> system back.

I'd play with hdparm and turning down the I/O speed of the drive, to see 
if the problem goes away.  The other thing to check is to see if there's 
an updated IDE driver that might help.

Brian



From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Sat Jan 29 22:29:18 2005
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (gregwm)
Date: Sat Jan 29 22:33:45 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] bequeathability
In-Reply-To: <1106922768.41fa4d10c3c94@my.visi.com>
References: <1106919998.6463.1286.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
	<1106922768.41fa4d10c3c94@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <1107059357.6463.6583.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 08:32, smac@visi.com wrote:
> If you get hit by a bus the director will know the Real Time team can continue

well,

i'd really prefer to have our own server..

is there nobody in the TC area qualified to manage a whitebox linux
server, that could be convinced to consult for the Nonviolent Peaceforce
if ever i should suddenly get squashed?

if nobody, then perhaps sam's suggestion wins..

ty,
greg
Gregory Whitley Mott
IT Coordinator
NonviolentPeaceforce.org


From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Sat Jan 29 22:40:42 2005
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Sat Jan 29 22:43:46 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] bequeathability
In-Reply-To: <1107059357.6463.6583.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
References: <1106919998.6463.1286.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
	<1106922768.41fa4d10c3c94@my.visi.com>
	<1107059357.6463.6583.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
Message-ID: <20050130044042.GA21613@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:29:18PM -0600, gregwm wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 08:32, smac@visi.com wrote:
> > If you get hit by a bus the director will know the Real Time team
> > can continue
> 
> well,
> 
> i'd really prefer to have our own server..
> 
> is there nobody in the TC area qualified to manage a whitebox linux
> server, that could be convinced to consult for the Nonviolent
> Peaceforce if ever i should suddenly get squashed?

It would help me at least if you would define terms.  Manage?  Whitebox?

-- 
trammell@el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

From adam at whee.org  Sun Jan 30 00:26:14 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Sun Jan 30 00:43:46 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] O/T key logger and/or kid spyer
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0501281532133ec8f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501292323090.16158@titan>

<massive snippage>

Oh my god this is long.

I read all of the other responses to this thread, and I agree with what 
most people are saying.

I've gotten this question 100's of times from (former, beloved, missed) 
ISP customers.  And neighbors.  And relatives...

The absolute #1 best thing to do is to be a parent first, police second. 
This involves education AND spending time together on-line.  I feel the 
same way in the case of adults in a corporate setting - education, and a 
clear policy on appropriate computer use, solves 99% of the problem.

Number 2 is to be forthcoming with any monitoring or preventative measures 
that are taken.  In fact, I've seen this work REALLY well in a corporate 
environment, where adult website access was rampant (more on this 
below...)  Anyways, parents should be honest with their offspring.  It's 
better to let them know beforehand what measures will be taken.  You'd 
rather have them know ahead of time, than finding out about your 
monitoring when you've busted them and they're already mad (and the damage 
has been done).  Now, I don't own any kids, but if I did, this would be 
the way I'd run the show.

A word on the pederasts...child predators on-line are not alwaays easy to 
spot.  Especially when curiosity or hormones are involved.  Reading 
transcripts of some of these logs (more on this...), it's obvious to you 
and me that the person is a pedo, but the child is sometimes blinded by 
"my parents overreact, the media blew this out of proportion, he's *so* 
handsome and funny..."  These people, sadly, are very good at what they 
do.  For instance, they bring up any subject, "So you like computers?" 
(obviously, since they're on The AOL!!!) the question invites, "Does your 
dad work with computers for a living?"  Chances are, the child will name 
daddy's occupation, which helps the pedo determine when daddy's most 
likely to be home, if he's a big burly construction worker or a wimpy 
executive (in case daddy catches him...)  Then that's an in for finding 
out about mom and the rest of the family.  I used these tactics on Munir 
last night when I posed as SexyGirl16 and was trying to get him to talk 
dirty to me over AIM.  ("How big's your disk?  Oooh....and how much RAM?")

These people are more than capable of getting a reasonable picture of who 
else is in the house at various times of the day, what kind of bait to 
entice the child with, etc, with just a few innocent questions.  They are 
just playing the odds.  The "more on this" was to mention that any parent 
who hasn't yet eaten their own offspring, should read some of the chat 
transcripts at www.perverted-justice.com.  I read some of these a couple 
of years ago (this site was highlighted on the news), and was shocked. 
No, wait, nothing shocks me anymore, I've seen the proxy logs...but I was 
disgusted.

My other "more on this" was about monitoring.  I had a customer at ISP #1 
that had an employee porn-surfing problem.  When I went out there to setup 
the web proxy, they asked about what to do now that they had logs of 
everything.  I told them to announce to their staff that they were turning 
on web logging due to abuse, and would be monitoring the logs for 
inappropriate activity.  I guarantee you none of those employees wanted to 
be "caught with their pants down", as it were...and the problem went away.

I've been asked more recently how to deal with this in a corporate 
environment.  My favorite suggestion so far has been that the company 
should setup a proxy log reporting tool (like Sarg), and actually e-mail 
the users their previous day's web activity every morning.  I think this 
is a far better solution than the alternatives, because:

a) having staff sift through logs looking for "the pervs" doesn't scale in
    a 20,000 person company

b) content and URL filtering doesn't work - it ends up being an arms race
    trying to keep up with the porn industry (who are constantly coming
    up with new ways to help users get around corporate monitoring or
    filtering, or you end up blocking legitimate sites, and staff spends way
    too much  time allowing certain sites

c) I don't enjoy pulling up www.milfhunter.com to see if it's an adult
    site.  (ok, I actually do...nice mommy!)

Alternatively, telling the users that a random sampling will be examined 
(ala random drug tests for pro athletes...), or that the report will be 
e-mailed to them daily, and a weekly summary to their supervisor...who can 
escalate to Human "We'll bring your personal effects out to you" 
Resources.

I'm not a parent, but I can certainly appreciate the difficulties and 
responsibilities involved.  As for me and the 'lil woman, other people's 
kids, in small doses, is enough for us.  I'll stick with the dogs TYVM :)

From sfertch at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 13:59:20 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Sun Jan 30 14:03:52 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] bequeathability
In-Reply-To: <20050130044042.GA21613@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <1106919998.6463.1286.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
	<1106922768.41fa4d10c3c94@my.visi.com>
	<1107059357.6463.6583.camel@ruby.nvpf.us>
	<20050130044042.GA21613@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a0501301159360a016b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:40:42 -0600, John J. Trammell
<trammell+tclug@el-swifto.com> wrote:
> It would help me at least if you would define terms.  Manage?  Whitebox?
> 

Whitebox is a public version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v3.

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

From tclug at ryanorourke.org  Sun Jan 30 15:30:31 2005
From: tclug at ryanorourke.org (Ryan O'Rourke)
Date: Sun Jan 30 15:33:51 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] audio mixing programs
Message-ID: <41FD51F7.8040002@ryanorourke.org>

Hello,

What are people using out there for audio mixing, sequencing, looping, 
synthesizing, editing, etc on Linux? I'm looking for something similar 
to Fruity Loops FL Studio (http://www.fruityloops.com/)
It doesn't have to be extremely technical and involved - just 
something for a newbie to play around on and get familiar with.

Thanks.

-- Ryan

From john.meier at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 15:40:52 2005
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Sun Jan 30 15:43:51 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] audio mixing programs
In-Reply-To: <41FD51F7.8040002@ryanorourke.org>
References: <41FD51F7.8040002@ryanorourke.org>
Message-ID: <65293fcc050130134074c3f935@mail.gmail.com>

Something like:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

???

I haven't used it yet, but installed it with the hopes of finding some
tiime to play with it ....

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:30:31 -0600, Ryan O'Rourke <tclug@ryanorourke.org> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> What are people using out there for audio mixing, sequencing, looping,
> synthesizing, editing, etc on Linux? I'm looking for something similar
> to Fruity Loops FL Studio (http://www.fruityloops.com/)
> It doesn't have to be extremely technical and involved - just
> something for a newbie to play around on and get familiar with.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- Ryan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list@mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Jan 30 18:05:05 2005
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:08:54 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200501310005.j0V055j15914@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: HP Laserjet IIP

I've got an HP Laserjet IIP that's free to  one lucky person. It's in fairly good shape considering it's probably 15 years old and works great in linux. It has a toner cartridge that's been almost dead for quite a while but you can probably shake a couple more pages out. Replacement cartridges were ~$20 the last time I checked.

Seller Email address: john4293 at umn dot edu

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi


From ge.fischer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 20:30:51 2005
From: ge.fischer at gmail.com (George Fischer)
Date: Sun Jan 30 20:34:01 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] PCMCIA/Cardbus problem
Message-ID: <fcc3c643050130183094cca0c@mail.gmail.com>

Hey again.  I'm still trying to get a wireless card to work in my
thinkpad 600e (Debian unstable, 2.4.27-2-686, latest pcmcia-cs).  I
had asked a couple of weeks ago for recommendations, and then
discovered that none of the cards that I can buy in a store right now
are supported; they keep changing their chipsets.

So I have resigned to using ndiswrapper and the windows drivers.  This
only works for cardbus cards, though.  So I got me a Linksys WPC54GS
that I had seen on ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/wiki.  All well and
good.

I downloaded the source packages for ndiswrapper from debian unstable,
and with the usual amount of fudging about got them compiled and
installed.  Now I can use the utility to install the windows driver
from the cdrom.  Still good.

When I insert the card I get a message:
cs: cb_alloc(bus 2): vendor 0x14e4, device 0x4320

Okay, that seems good.  The id numbers are what expected.

Then (as according to the instructions for ndiswrapper) I do a
# modprobe ndiswrapper

And oops (from /var/sys/syslog)
kernel: ndiswrapper version 1.0rc2 loaded (preempt=no,smp=no)
loadndisdriver: loadndisdriver: main(462): version 1.0rc2 started 
kernel: PCI: No IRQ known for interrupt pin A of device . Please try
using pci=biosirq.
kernel: ndiswrapper (NdisWriteErrorLogEntry:261): log: C000138D,
count: 1 (0000000a)
kernel: 
kernel: ndiswrapper (ndis_init_one_pci:95): Windows driver couldn't
initialize the device (C0000001)
kernel: ndiswrapper (start_driver:660): couldn't register driver lsbcmnds
loadndisdriver: loadndisdriver: load_driver(349): couldn't load driver lsbcmnds 
loadndisdriver: loadndisdriver: main(497): no useable drivers found, aborting 

So I try 
# lspci -n
and I get the message:
pcilib: Cannot open /proc/bus/pci/02/00.0
lspci: Unable to read 64 bytes of configuration space.

Well, that sucks.  It can't open the file because the ./proc/bus/pci/
directory has no 02/ directory in it.

Then I use cardctl to eject the card (no problems using cardctl to
ident and status the card, FYI)
> cs: cb_free(bus 2)

and lspci -n gets me this:
00:00.0 Class 0600: 8086:7190 (rev 03)
00:01.0 Class 0604: 8086:7191 (rev 03)
00:02.0 Class 0607: 104c:ac1d
00:02.1 Class 0607: 104c:ac1d
00:06.0 Class 0401: 1013:6001 (rev 01)
00:07.0 Class 0680: 8086:7110 (rev 02)
00:07.1 Class 0101: 8086:7111 (rev 01)
00:07.2 Class 0c03: 8086:7112 (rev 01)
00:07.3 Class 0680: 8086:7113 (rev 02)
01:00.0 Class 0300: 10c8:0005 (rev 12)

So, it seems to me that my card is getting recognized, but for some
reason the cardbus is not getting set up correctly.  It seems to think
it is device 2, but there is no device 2.

I have no idea what this means.  I have googled as best I can, and
come up with some people asking similar questions, but no answers.

Any ideas?



-- 
George Fischer
Minneapolis

From austad at signal15.com  Sun Jan 30 21:28:47 2005
From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:33:55 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] OTA sync server
Message-ID: <37EE9B12-7338-11D9-A3DA-000D933AFC92@signal15.com>

Anyone know of a free OTA sync server that will run on Linux or BSD?

I picked up a Motorola A768i off ebay the other day, and the bluetooth 
doesn't support syncing unless you use the crappy windows software.  I 
don't have a windows box, nor do I want one.

So, instead of dealing with VCF's all the time, I'd rather use the 
built in support for OTA sync.

Also, if anyone has a copy of the Belcarra USBLAN stuff, can I have a 
copy?  I signed up to download it and I just get and invalid password 
error when downloading.  Apparently you can telnet into the phone with 
full root privileges and have full filesystem access over SMB with it.  
I need to make some changes.  :)

~jay


From bellsoffreedom at animail.net  Mon Jan 31 09:09:02 2005
From: bellsoffreedom at animail.net (Nick)
Date: Mon Jan 31 08:58:57 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
Message-ID: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>

Situation:
I'm trying to copy files on a pier-to-pier network with the rcp 
command and I'm getting the error: getaddrinfo. Then it gives some 
kind of name resolution message.
Linux box is 192.168.1.2 and the WinXP box is 192.168.1.1

I've studied the syntax for rcp and tried it every which way I can 
think of. I've read about it in books, and followed what they said.

Questions:
Does the rcp command just not work when copying to a Windows box? If 
I put a Linux partition on the Windows box, would it be easier to 
network? Currently, I've had a lot of trouble.

Thanks for any help!
Nick


?Take sides. Neutrality helps the 
oppressor, never the victim.?
~ Elie Wiesel

View my blog & artwork!
***********************
http://artandprose.blogspot.com/
Support Care2 Email: 1,400 whales may be killed this year. Take action! http://www.care2.com/go/z/17954

From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon Jan 31 10:16:35 2005
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford)
Date: Mon Jan 31 10:19:00 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
References: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
Message-ID: <20050131161635.GA19096@crito>

On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 09:09:02AM -0600, Nick wrote:
> [...]
> Does the rcp command just not work when copying to a Windows box? 

As far as I'm aware, rcp/rsh/rlogin is not available on windows. Is there
some reason you're trying that instead of scp or ftp or samba or ...?

My approach would be to install putty on the windows machine and then run
pscp from the windows side.

> If I put a Linux partition on the Windows box, would it be easier to 
> network? Currently, I've had a lot of trouble.

If you mean turn the windows machine into a dual-boot machine and then boot
it into linux, then yes, rcp should work. If you mean creating a linux
partition on a machine that's still running windows, then no, all you've
done is add another drive to the windows machine (more or less).

And, of course, I would be remiss if I failed to note that rcp/rsh/rlogin is
really insecure. scp/ssh is a much, much better idea, especially if you're
on the open internet.

-Steve


From adam at whee.org  Mon Jan 31 10:01:01 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 31 10:19:09 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
References: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501310957250.4613@titan>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005, Nick wrote:

> Questions:
> Does the rcp command just not work when copying to a Windows box? If
> I put a Linux partition on the Windows box, would it be easier to
> network? Currently, I've had a lot of trouble.

Windows doesn't come with rsh support by default - so you would have had 
to install some 3rd-party application in Windows, to be able to rcp/rsh.

If you just want to copy files between them, the easiest thing to do would 
be to turn on the FTP server in Linux and FTP to it from the Windows box. 
Edit /etc/inetd.conf and make sure that the line that begins with "ftp" is 
not commented out.  If it is, remove the # sign at the beginning and then 
restart inetd (ps auxw | grep inetd, get the process ID number, then kill 
-1 <process id number from ps>  )

Also be aware that your distro may not allow root to FTP in by default, so 
you may want to login using a normal user account.

If you want to get more fancy, you need to install and configure Samba.

From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan 31 10:31:13 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 31 10:33:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <20050131161635.GA19096@crito>
References: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
	<20050131161635.GA19096@crito>
Message-ID: <1107189073.41fe5d5165c9e@my.visi.com>

We used a tool called RoboCopy to go between Windows and Unix.
I believe RoboCopy was orriginally a Unix tool that was migrated to Windows.
It's closed source $$$


Maybe an open source tool exists or maybe it's a project for someone???


Sam.



From smac at visi.com  Mon Jan 31 10:31:12 2005
From: smac at visi.com (smac@visi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 31 10:34:07 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <20050131161635.GA19096@crito>
References: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
	<20050131161635.GA19096@crito>
Message-ID: <1107189072.41fe5d5076d90@my.visi.com>

We used a tool called RoboCopy to go between Windows and Unix.
I believe RoboCopy was orriginally a Unix tool that was migrated to Windows.
It's closed source $$$


Maybe an open source tool exists or maybe it's a project for someone???


Sam.



From adam at whee.org  Mon Jan 31 11:03:01 2005
From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney)
Date: Mon Jan 31 11:18:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <1107189073.41fe5d5165c9e@my.visi.com>
References: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
	<20050131161635.GA19096@crito> <1107189073.41fe5d5165c9e@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501311102200.4613@titan>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 smac@visi.com wrote:

> We used a tool called RoboCopy to go between Windows and Unix.
> I believe RoboCopy was orriginally a Unix tool that was migrated to Windows.
> It's closed source $$$
>
>
> Maybe an open source tool exists or maybe it's a project for someone???

cygwin?  But putty using pscp is adequate for just copying files.

From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 11:39:35 2005
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 11:43:58 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0501311102200.4613@titan>
References: <272C79109F4788B43AEB4FA9D3993F90@bellsoffreedom.animail.net>
	<20050131161635.GA19096@crito> <1107189073.41fe5d5165c9e@my.visi.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0501311102200.4613@titan>
Message-ID: <67f3084a050131093979326348@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:01 -0600 (CST), Adam Maloney <adam@whee.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 smac@visi.com wrote:
> 
> > We used a tool called RoboCopy to go between Windows and Unix.
> > I believe RoboCopy was orriginally a Unix tool that was migrated to Windows.
> > It's closed source $$$
> >
> >
> > Maybe an open source tool exists or maybe it's a project for someone???
> 
> cygwin?  But putty using pscp is adequate for just copying files.


Can't say I'm familiar with RoboCopy.  I replied off-list to him, but
here's what I suggested:

"Get rid of rcp and use ssh.  Syntax is similar.  You'll need to
install putty, or another client.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/

Sample scp syntax pulling files from linux box to windows while on windows:

pscp -r user@linuxbox:/dir/to/copy .

Or, if you like GUI, look for WinSCP:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winscp/   "




-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..

From ge.fischer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 15:15:37 2005
From: ge.fischer at gmail.com (George Fischer)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:19:05 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] Re: PCMCIA/Cardbus problem
Message-ID: <fcc3c64305013113151b881cf6@mail.gmail.com>

I sent an email to the list last night detailing trouble with a
cardbus wireless card.  I never got a copy of it from the list, but it
showed up on the archive, so I assume it went out.

Anyway, I fixed the problem by changing to kernel 2.6.10.  I can only
assume there has been some improvements to the cardbus code, or the
way my specific cardbus bridge is handled.

One crisis averted.  Of course, I still can't get the card to find a
signal, but that's an entirely different problem

-- 
George Fischer
Minneapolis

From mike at fruitioninc.com  Mon Jan 31 16:27:10 2005
From: mike at fruitioninc.com (Mike Bresnahan)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:29:01 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] audio mixing programs
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc050130134074c3f935@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41FD51F7.8040002@ryanorourke.org>
	<65293fcc050130134074c3f935@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1107210430.41feb0be72e5e@webmail.real-time.com>

Quoting John Meier <john.meier@gmail.com>:
> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I've used audacity some and found it to work well and be easy to learn.


From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 31 17:35:58 2005
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:39:02 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] RCP Cmd Help
In-Reply-To: <1107189072.41fe5d5076d90@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <DJEHLONFBIGDNAPDPEMKIEJOCEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

FYI, Robocopy is provided free in a Windows 2000 Service pack.  It may do something useful, but it has its own quirks.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of smac@visi.com
> 
> We used a tool called RoboCopy to go between Windows and Unix.
> I believe RoboCopy was orriginally a Unix tool that was migrated to Windows.
> It's closed source $$$



From josh at joshwelch.com  Mon Jan 31 19:33:03 2005
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 19:34:01 2005
Subject: [tclug-list] audio mixing programs
In-Reply-To: <1107210430.41feb0be72e5e@webmail.real-time.com>
References: <41FD51F7.8040002@ryanorourke.org>
	<65293fcc050130134074c3f935@mail.gmail.com>
	<1107210430.41feb0be72e5e@webmail.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20050131193303.2jkjclfolxc004o8@moose.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Mike Bresnahan <mike@fruitioninc.com>:

> Quoting John Meier <john.meier@gmail.com>:
>> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
>
> I've used audacity some and found it to work well and be easy to learn.
>
>

<...and to the list, sorry about the direct reply Mike.>

There is an article in Linux Journal this month about Ardour, haven't had a
chance to look at it yet.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7796

Josh