From david.blevins at visi.com Mon May 2 14:17:50 2005 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Mon May 2 14:19:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Strange ForwardXll issue Message-ID: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> I just setup a new KnoppMyth box after having used MythTV on RH8-9 and FC2 for a long while now. Everything seems fine except that I cannot get X11 tunneling over shh to work. I've got the following in my /etc/ssh/ssh_config which should do the trick: Host * ForwardAgent yes ForwardX11 yes [Note to the security conscious, I don't plan on running "ForwardX11 yes" in the global Hosts and will setup a profile for the machine that needs access.] I've googled and poked and edited and ssh restarted to no avail. When I ssh -X into the knoppmyth box, there is no DISPLAY variable set. I am able to ssh -X to other boxes and run X11 apps, so I know the setup on the system i am connecting from is ok. I checked the KnoppMyth forums and people there seem to be running X11/over ssh fine. I've never really used Debian before so I don't know how much is different between KnoppMyth and Knoppix and regular Debian. Any ideas on where to look? Better google fodder? -David From slushpupie at gmail.com Mon May 2 14:43:32 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Mon May 2 14:45:09 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Strange ForwardXll issue In-Reply-To: References: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: On 5/2/05, David Blevins wrote: > I've googled and poked and edited and ssh restarted to no avail. When I ssh -X > into the knoppmyth box, there is no DISPLAY variable set. I am able to ssh -X to > other boxes and run X11 apps, so I know the setup on the system i am connecting > from is ok. > There are a few other things to check. First, make sure X11 forwarding is turned on in the sshd_config file: X11Forwarding yes Also, you need to have the xauth binary for it to work at all, which in debian is provided by the xbase-clients package. Jay -- -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From timo at bolverk.net Mon May 2 19:16:36 2005 From: timo at bolverk.net (Tim Oudin) Date: Mon May 2 19:17:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DNS config Message-ID: <3174.24.118.5.228.1115079396.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> Got a question about DNS, I'd be much appreciative if anyone could lend some insight. I have an internal office network running MS Small Business Server as a PDC/Exchange server. SBS apparently insists on managing DNS in it's domain. Internally I also have some web servers that are used for development. Everything in the office sits behind a Linux gateway/firewall. Externally I have a real, er, Linux DNS server running BIND. The setup I inherited has a subdomains pointing into my dev web server for external access to current projects. This is something my people want, so they get it. Issue with the current config is that there are two subdomains created for accessing the same content. My people were told that they needed to access this content with an http://internal.mydomain.com from within the office and http://external.mydomain.com from outside the network. There is constant complaining about the inconvenience associated with this config. Although the complaining may be petty it's what I get paid to deal with apparently. DNS is configured for http://internal.mydomain.com to resolve to the private IP address of the development server and http://external.mydomain.com resolving to the public IP address that port forwards to the same server. I'm far from a DNS guru, in fact this job is the first that I've ever had to deal with anything more than understanding the general concept to DNS. Is there any reason why I could not set up DNS on my SBS for http://dev.mydomain.com to resolve to a private ip of, say, 10.0.0.111 and set the same subdomain on my external DNS server with a public ip of my gateway? I have made some tests and all seems to work well as long as I have primary DNS on my machine set to my SBS server and secondary to the ip of the office gateway which has my external DNS as the first entry in /etc/resolv.conf? The previous admin seems to think this can not be done and I fail to see the issue. Thanks! -- timo From josh at joshwelch.com Mon May 2 19:35:40 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Mon May 2 19:37:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DNS config In-Reply-To: <3174.24.118.5.228.1115079396.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> References: <3174.24.118.5.228.1115079396.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> Message-ID: <1115080540.4276c75c99d74@joshwelch.com> Quoting Tim Oudin : > Got a question about DNS, I'd be much appreciative if anyone could lend > some insight. > > I have an internal office network running MS Small Business Server as a > PDC/Exchange server. SBS apparently insists on managing DNS in it's > domain. Internally I also have some web servers that are used for > development. Everything in the office sits behind a Linux > gateway/firewall. > > Externally I have a real, er, Linux DNS server running BIND. > > The setup I inherited has a subdomains pointing into my dev web server for > external access to current projects. This is something my people want, so > they get it. Issue with the current config is that there are two > subdomains created for accessing the same content. My people were told > that they needed to access this content with an > http://internal.mydomain.com from within the office and > http://external.mydomain.com from outside the network. There is constant > complaining about the inconvenience associated with this config. Although > the complaining may be petty it's what I get paid to deal with apparently. > > DNS is configured for http://internal.mydomain.com to resolve to the > private IP address of the development server and > http://external.mydomain.com resolving to the public IP address that port > forwards to the same server. > > I'm far from a DNS guru, in fact this job is the first that I've ever had > to deal with anything more than understanding the general concept to DNS. > Is there any reason why I could not set up DNS on my SBS for > http://dev.mydomain.com to resolve to a private ip of, say, 10.0.0.111 and > set the same subdomain on my external DNS server with a public ip of my > gateway? > > I have made some tests and all seems to work well as long as I have > primary DNS on my machine set to my SBS server and secondary to the ip of > the office gateway which has my external DNS as the first entry in > /etc/resolv.conf? > > The previous admin seems to think this can not be done and I fail to see > the issue. > I do this currently, for similar reasons, and have been doing it for awhile. I've had no problems with this setup. It's a good way to handle the scenario you describe. Josh From timo at bolverk.net Mon May 2 19:39:59 2005 From: timo at bolverk.net (Tim Oudin) Date: Mon May 2 19:43:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DNS config In-Reply-To: <1115080540.4276c75c99d74@joshwelch.com> References: <3174.24.118.5.228.1115079396.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> <1115080540.4276c75c99d74@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <1958.24.118.5.228.1115080799.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> On Mon, May 2, 2005 7:35 pm, josh@joshwelch.com said: > Quoting Tim Oudin : > >> Got a question about DNS, I'd be much appreciative if anyone could lend >> some insight. >> > > I do this currently, for similar reasons, and have been doing it for > awhile. > I've had no problems with this setup. It's a good way to handle the > scenario > you describe. Cool, was hoping to hear that! Many thanks. -- timo From drue at therub.org Tue May 3 09:14:27 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Tue May 3 09:15:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DNS config In-Reply-To: <1115080540.4276c75c99d74@joshwelch.com> References: <3174.24.118.5.228.1115079396.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> <1115080540.4276c75c99d74@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <20050503141427.GC66497@therub.org> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 07:35:40PM -0500, josh@joshwelch.com wrote: > Quoting Tim Oudin : > > > Got a question about DNS, I'd be much appreciative if anyone could lend > > some insight. > > > > I have an internal office network running MS Small Business Server as a > > PDC/Exchange server. SBS apparently insists on managing DNS in it's > > domain. Internally I also have some web servers that are used for > > development. Everything in the office sits behind a Linux > > gateway/firewall. > > > > Externally I have a real, er, Linux DNS server running BIND. > > > > The setup I inherited has a subdomains pointing into my dev web server for > > external access to current projects. This is something my people want, so > > they get it. Issue with the current config is that there are two > > subdomains created for accessing the same content. My people were told > > that they needed to access this content with an > > http://internal.mydomain.com from within the office and > > http://external.mydomain.com from outside the network. There is constant > > complaining about the inconvenience associated with this config. Although > > the complaining may be petty it's what I get paid to deal with apparently. > > > > DNS is configured for http://internal.mydomain.com to resolve to the > > private IP address of the development server and > > http://external.mydomain.com resolving to the public IP address that port > > forwards to the same server. > > > > I'm far from a DNS guru, in fact this job is the first that I've ever had > > to deal with anything more than understanding the general concept to DNS. > > Is there any reason why I could not set up DNS on my SBS for > > http://dev.mydomain.com to resolve to a private ip of, say, 10.0.0.111 and > > set the same subdomain on my external DNS server with a public ip of my > > gateway? > > > > I have made some tests and all seems to work well as long as I have > > primary DNS on my machine set to my SBS server and secondary to the ip of > > the office gateway which has my external DNS as the first entry in > > /etc/resolv.conf? > > > > The previous admin seems to think this can not be done and I fail to see > > the issue. > > > > I do this currently, for similar reasons, and have been doing it for awhile. > I've had no problems with this setup. It's a good way to handle the scenario > you describe. > I do this too in a few places, and it works great. I will add that if you're using bind 9, you can use the same dns server for both the private and the public dns using "views". Views in bind 9 allow you to use different zone files depending on where the request is coming from (IP based). Works really slick, I use it at home where I don't have the luxury of many dns servers. Dan From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue May 3 09:49:23 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Tue May 3 09:51:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Strange ForwardXll issue In-Reply-To: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> References: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <20050503094923.A13351@baker.space.umn.edu> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 02:17:50PM -0500, David Blevins wrote: > I've googled and poked and edited and ssh restarted to no > avail. When I ssh -X into the knoppmyth box, there is no > DISPLAY variable set. I am able to ssh -X to other boxes and > run X11 apps, so I know the setup on the system i am connecting > from is ok. You should try ssh -Xv and see if any of the debugging info is helpful. You can also try running the ssh server in debug mode as well. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From timo at bolverk.net Tue May 3 09:52:52 2005 From: timo at bolverk.net (Tim Oudin) Date: Tue May 3 09:55:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DNS config In-Reply-To: <20050503141427.GC66497@therub.org> References: <3174.24.118.5.228.1115079396.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> <1115080540.4276c75c99d74@joshwelch.com> <20050503141427.GC66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <4154.24.118.5.228.1115131972.squirrel@webmail.bolverk.net> > On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 07:35:40PM -0500, josh@joshwelch.com wrote: >> Quoting Tim Oudin : >> >> > Got a question about DNS, I'd be much appreciative if anyone could >> lend >> > some insight. >> I do this currently, for similar reasons, and have been doing it for >> awhile. >> I've had no problems with this setup. It's a good way to handle the >> scenario >> you describe. >> > > I do this too in a few places, and it works great. I will add that if > you're using bind 9, you can use the same dns server for both the > private and the public dns using "views". Views in bind 9 allow you to > use different zone files depending on where the request is coming from > (IP based). Works really slick, I use it at home where I don't have the > luxury of many dns servers. I read some about views and it sounded pretty cool. My assumption, based upon the few paragraphs I've read on it, was that views wouldn't really work for me since my public DNS server sits outside of my private network. From you statement that I can use different zone files based on IP it sounds awesome (meaning I can spend less time messing with the windows box!). Many thanks, Dan! -- timo From drue at therub.org Tue May 3 16:34:39 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Tue May 3 16:35:25 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL Message-ID: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> I just noticed that IPHouse is supporting 7mbps DSL.. Has anyone seen this or is anyone using it yet? It looks like it bumps your qwest cost by about $10.. http://www.iphouse.com/services/dsl.html dan From cschumann at twp-llc.com Tue May 3 17:24:39 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Tue May 3 17:25:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Debian Mentor Message-ID: <200505032232.j43MWlrx013253@localhost.localdomain> Hi, I've been using Red Hat and Fedora for years, but I recently got back an old laptop, and Fedora just won't run on it. I now have Debian running (2.2.20 kernel), with TCP/IP running too! It's an old 486, but it has special meaning to me, so I would like to get it running as a print server (mostly), but I would also like to get X running on it and the sound as well. The video is a challenge because the chip is the WD 90C24, which has not been ported to the latest XFree68 or X.org packages. I am a competent C developer, so I would not mind digging in and getting my hands dirty with a port of that code, but I am in a fog as to how much I have to learn before I'm useful. Also, audio has never worked on this machine, even though it has a supported chip, so that would be fun as well. My goal is not only to get the machine running, but to get into Linux device driver development too. I would sincerely appreciate the guidance of a knowledgeable Debian user now and then to say things like "Subscribe to the XFree86 devel list" (which I just did) or "you can cross-compile on a faster machine like this" or "update packages like this" or "get chip specs from here." So if you're an advanced Debian user and wouldn't mind sharing a few moments now and then, I could really use some help. Someone local would be especially useful, so I wrote to this list. If it matters, the laptop is a ThinkPad 750P with 36MB of RAM and a 12GB disk. 640x480 gray display that converts into a tablet. It would be *AWESOME* to get pen input working too. I think it uses a pretty standard serial tablet protocol. Thanks, Chris Schumann From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue May 3 19:34:04 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue May 3 19:35:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Dan Rue wrote: > I just noticed that IPHouse is supporting 7mbps DSL.. Has anyone seen > this or is anyone using it yet? > > It looks like it bumps your qwest cost by about $10.. > > http://www.iphouse.com/services/dsl.html It's supposed to be pretty sweet. I'm really considering moving from cable for it.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue May 3 21:21:29 2005 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue May 3 21:23:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: > I just noticed that IPHouse is supporting 7mbps DSL.. Has anyone seen > this or is anyone using it yet? > > It looks like it bumps your qwest cost by about $10.. I kinda find it hard to believe that they charge the same for 256K and 7M... anyone ask them? $38+$19.95=much less than I'm paying for DSL... heck, I think I'm paying Qwest more than $38! Definitely paying the ISP more than $20, but that's worth it. -Yaron -- From nate at refried.org Tue May 3 21:46:52 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Tue May 3 21:51:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <20050504024652.GA18201@refried.org> On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 09:21:29PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > I kinda find it hard to believe that they charge the same for 256K and > 7M... anyone ask them? $38+$19.95=much less than I'm paying for DSL... > heck, I think I'm paying Qwest more than $38! Definitely paying the ISP > more than $20, but that's worth it. You might want to call up Qwest and see what the current rates are. I have a friend that found you have to ask Qwest for the new rates or else they'll keep charging you the same amount and giving you the same bandwidth. The other day it looked like I was getting 3M/384k from Frontier. Now it says: ATU-C Current Tx Rate (bits/sec) 3488000 ATU-R Current Tx Rate (bits/sec) 448000 Nate From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue May 3 22:15:40 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue May 3 22:17:27 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Yaron wrote: > I kinda find it hard to believe that they charge the same for 256K and > 7M... anyone ask them? $38+$19.95=much less than I'm paying for DSL... > heck, I think I'm paying Qwest more than $38! Definitely paying the ISP > more than $20, but that's worth it. I confirmed the price with ipHouse, back when Qwest originally announced the new DSL product to ISP's. The theory is that most users aren't actually going to use that much total bandwidth with the faster speeds; they will just use the same amounts faster. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue May 3 22:20:48 2005 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue May 3 22:22:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Nate Carlson wrote: > The theory is that most users aren't actually going to use that much total > bandwidth with the faster speeds; they will just use the same amounts faster. Coool... I guess I'll go bug my ISP tomorrow... -Yaron -- From drue at therub.org Tue May 3 22:47:40 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Tue May 3 22:49:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Coool... I guess I'll go bug my ISP tomorrow... By the way, I emailed visi about this. They have ordered a couple of OC3's from qwest to support the higher bandwidths. Once they have those, they will also be offering 7/1. Gary from visi said it would be 3-6 weeks. Dan From smac at visi.com Wed May 4 07:59:15 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed May 4 08:07:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <4278C723.6030103@visi.com> On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 09:56:35PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: >> Nate is right I had to ask to be upgraded from the original speeds to >> the 869kbps up and 1.5mbps down. >> Just normal "Ma Bell". > > You might want to send that to the list if you didn't already. Looked like you just replied to me. :) Nate Nate Carlson wrote: > On Tue, 3 May 2005, Yaron wrote: > >> I kinda find it hard to believe that they charge the same for 256K >> and 7M... anyone ask them? $38+$19.95=much less than I'm paying for >> DSL... heck, I think I'm paying Qwest more than $38! Definitely >> paying the ISP more than $20, but that's worth it. > > > I confirmed the price with ipHouse, back when Qwest originally > announced the new DSL product to ISP's. > > The theory is that most users aren't actually going to use that much > total bandwidth with the faster speeds; they will just use the same > amounts faster. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | > | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From smac at visi.com Wed May 4 08:03:43 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed May 4 08:13:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <4278C82F.8020502@visi.com> Visi Rocks! They are so helpful and go the extra mile to help their customers. When I found out about the faster service 869/1.5 for the same price as the old speed. I called Visi before Qwest because I knew having the right terminology and information would save me time in getting the upgrade. It took Qwest a week and Visi about a minute. Visi Rocks! Sam. Dan Rue wrote: >On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > > >>Coool... I guess I'll go bug my ISP tomorrow... >> >> > >By the way, I emailed visi about this. They have ordered a couple of >OC3's from qwest to support the higher bandwidths. Once they have >those, they will also be offering 7/1. Gary from visi said it would be >3-6 weeks. > >Dan > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From florin at iucha.net Wed May 4 08:35:27 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed May 4 09:01:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <20050504133527.GH19136@iucha.net> On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:47:40PM -0500, Dan Rue wrote: > On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > > Coool... I guess I'll go bug my ISP tomorrow... > > By the way, I emailed visi about this. They have ordered a couple of > OC3's from qwest to support the higher bandwidths. Once they have > those, they will also be offering 7/1. Gary from visi said it would be > 3-6 weeks. Will visi charge the same for the 7mbps? florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050504/531e18f0/attachment.pgp From adam at whee.org Wed May 4 09:05:26 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed May 4 09:21:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Yaron wrote: >> I just noticed that IPHouse is supporting 7mbps DSL.. Has anyone seen >> this or is anyone using it yet? >> >> It looks like it bumps your qwest cost by about $10.. > > I kinda find it hard to believe that they charge the same for 256K and 7M... > anyone ask them? $38+$19.95=much less than I'm paying for DSL... heck, I > think I'm paying Qwest more than $38! Definitely paying the ISP more than > $20, but that's worth it. You can get the official pricing for the Qwest side from the tariff: Qwest Tariff Page: http://tariffs.qwest.com:8000/ Premium Tier DSL Tariff PDF: http://tabb.qwest.com/PPNB.NSF/dc8f684caffe8bcb862562d00070ec59/9c4873f9e441928a86256fe7004c0b10/$FILE/_08h9kok3iclmmipbi68pjid1d64s2qc1l8gj4k_.pdf It'll be $38/month + ISP, with their usual $99 speed change/activiation fee. The fee is waived through July. And in typical Qwest fashion, they'll probably end up extending that promotion. Megacentral's started getting letters a number of weeks ago asking whether they wanted to be able to support the higher speeds (some ISP's are still on the legacy single ATM T-1, and some are on ATM IMA T-1's, and couldn't necessarily handle 7M customers) And unlike Concast, Qwest and your local ISP's won't readily give up your information to the RIAA without a court order ;) http://news.com.com/Comcast+sued+for+disclosing+customer+info/2100-1030_3-5671438.html?tag=nefd.top From drue at therub.org Wed May 4 09:58:08 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Wed May 4 09:59:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050504133527.GH19136@iucha.net> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> <20050504133527.GH19136@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050504145808.GM66497@therub.org> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 08:35:27AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:47:40PM -0500, Dan Rue wrote: > > On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > > > Coool... I guess I'll go bug my ISP tomorrow... > > > > By the way, I emailed visi about this. They have ordered a couple of > > OC3's from qwest to support the higher bandwidths. Once they have > > those, they will also be offering 7/1. Gary from visi said it would be > > 3-6 weeks. > > Will visi charge the same for the 7mbps? > I didn't ask because I assumed they would charge the same as IPHouse.. At least, they'd be stupid not to. dan From smac at visi.com Wed May 4 12:05:29 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed May 4 12:15:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050504145808.GM66497@therub.org> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> <20050504133527.GH19136@iucha.net> <20050504145808.GM66497@therub.org> Message-ID: <427900D9.3000705@visi.com> This is Visi's DSL web page http://home.visi.com/services/dsl/personal_dsl.html I would think it needs to be updated as the prices are way out. Sam. Dan Rue wrote: >On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 08:35:27AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > > >>On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:47:40PM -0500, Dan Rue wrote: >> >> >>>On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:20:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Coool... I guess I'll go bug my ISP tomorrow... >>>> >>>> >>>By the way, I emailed visi about this. They have ordered a couple of >>>OC3's from qwest to support the higher bandwidths. Once they have >>>those, they will also be offering 7/1. Gary from visi said it would be >>>3-6 weeks. >>> >>> >>Will visi charge the same for the 7mbps? >> >> >> > >I didn't ask because I assumed they would charge the same as IPHouse.. > >At least, they'd be stupid not to. > >dan > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From david.blevins at visi.com Wed May 4 12:34:47 2005 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Wed May 4 12:55:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Strange ForwardXll issue In-Reply-To: References: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <20050504173447.GA18734@django> Gosh darnit, I responded but must have forgotten to 'reply to group.' Here is the response again so people don't waste time on my completely inept oversight. Though I do appreciate the response--sometimes you just need a second pair of eyes to see what's right in front of your face. On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 02:43:32PM -0500, slushpupie@gmail.com wrote: > On 5/2/05, David Blevins wrote: > > I've googled and poked and edited and ssh restarted to no avail. When I ssh -X > > into the knoppmyth box, there is no DISPLAY variable set. I am able to ssh -X to > > other boxes and run X11 apps, so I know the setup on the system i am connecting > > from is ok. > > > > There are a few other things to check. First, make sure X11 > forwarding is turned on in the sshd_config file: X11Forwarding yes Doh! Ok, that's embarrasing :) Maybe you can help me find my glasses too.... Thanks, David From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Wed May 4 15:29:43 2005 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Wed May 4 15:31:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Need a good laugh today? Message-ID: <005c01c550e8$01b4d470$0439a8c0@Kurama> Madville has this link to a shockwave movie that has linux as the theme. http://www.nata2.info/humor/flash/switchlinux3.swf Be a super villain today. Joseph Key From poptix at poptix.net Wed May 4 22:49:03 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Wed May 4 22:49:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <427900D9.3000705@visi.com> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> <20050504034740.GK66497@therub.org> <20050504133527.GH19136@iucha.net> <20050504145808.GM66497@therub.org> <427900D9.3000705@visi.com> Message-ID: <20050505034903.GB26894@momentum.poptix.net> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 12:05:29PM -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > This is Visi's DSL web page > > http://home.visi.com/services/dsl/personal_dsl.html > > I would think it needs to be updated as the prices are way out. > > Sam. Nope, that's the "quality service" surcharge. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From bradyh at bitstream.net Thu May 5 11:51:23 2005 From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg) Date: Thu May 5 11:47:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux Message-ID: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Does anybody on this list do a lot of graphics on their Linux box? I have a graphic I've been working on using OpenOffice.org draw and it comes out looking like crap. It looks fine when I pull it up in OOo but when I export it to PDF or JPG it comes out with jaggies and artifacts in both the background and the text. Can anyone suggest another program that can generate PDFs or an idea what might be causing the problem? Thanks, Brady From nate at refried.org Thu May 5 11:59:56 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Thu May 5 12:03:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux In-Reply-To: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050505165956.GA16732@refried.org> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:51:23AM -0500, Brady Hegberg wrote: > Can anyone suggest another program that can generate PDFs or an idea > what might be causing the problem? I'm not sure if the Gimp can generate PDFs, but that's the de facto Linux program for raster graphics. If you want something to do vectors with, you might try inkscape. It doesn't look like it doesn't PDF natively, but you can convert PostScript to PDF pretty easily. Nate From smac at visi.com Thu May 5 11:58:56 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu May 5 12:07:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux In-Reply-To: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <427A50D0.9030104@visi.com> "the Gimp" is very cool, very powerful, and OSS graphics application. I've created 3d, 2d, layered animation, and fixed many issues with graphics I have created in other programs. http://www.gimp.org/ Sam. Brady Hegberg wrote: >Does anybody on this list do a lot of graphics on their Linux box? I >have a graphic I've been working on using OpenOffice.org draw and it >comes out looking like crap. It looks fine when I pull it up in OOo but >when I export it to PDF or JPG it comes out with jaggies and artifacts >in both the background and the text. > >Can anyone suggest another program that can generate PDFs or an idea >what might be causing the problem? > >Thanks, >Brady > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From tmarble at info9.net Thu May 5 13:15:07 2005 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Thu May 5 13:15:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux In-Reply-To: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <427A62AB.5000106@info9.net> Brady Hegberg wrote: > [...] It looks fine when I pull it up in OOo but > when I export it to PDF or JPG it comes out with jaggies and artifacts > in both the background and the text. Instead of the default PDF export from OOo (or the manual print to ps, then ps2pdf conversion) consider trying the "Extended PDF" macro: http://www.jdisoftware.co.uk/pages/epdf-home.php Not only does it generate PDF's, but it can accurately preserve hyperlinks and generate a Table of Contents, etc. HTH, --Tom From thecubic at thecubic.net Thu May 5 14:55:21 2005 From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson) Date: Thu May 5 14:55:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux In-Reply-To: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200505051455.22006.thecubic@thecubic.net> On Thursday 05 May 2005 11:51, Brady Hegberg wrote: > Does anybody on this list do a lot of graphics on their Linux box? I > have a graphic I've been working on using OpenOffice.org draw and it > comes out looking like crap. It looks fine when I pull it up in OOo but > when I export it to PDF or JPG it comes out with jaggies and artifacts > in both the background and the text. > > Can anyone suggest another program that can generate PDFs or an idea > what might be causing the problem? There's a vector drawing application that should at least be more friendly to vector graphics (and I'm pretty sure it has a PDF output): http://www.inkscape.org/ There's also another one called sodipodi (www.sodipodi.com), but it's not as mature as inkscape. -- -dave Dave Carlson PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) From dan at dandrake.org Thu May 5 21:47:25 2005 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Thu May 5 21:47:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] trade 80GB SATA drive for IDE? Message-ID: <20050506024725.GA3212@dandrake.org> I just bought a backup hard drive from newegg, and I accidentally bought an SATA drive; I need an IDE drive. Does anyone have an 80GB (or more) IDE drive they'd like to trade? I'm a grad student at the U, so it's convenient for me to meet someone there. I'll also be at the TCLUG meeting this Saturday to cheer on fellow math student Jon Rogness. Dan -- Ceci n'est pas une .signature. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050505/01ca8746/attachment.pgp From bgilbertson at stonel.com Fri May 6 08:10:37 2005 From: bgilbertson at stonel.com (Bob Gilbertson) Date: Fri May 6 08:12:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux In-Reply-To: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <427B6CCD.3010604@stonel.com> Sounds like the resolution is set too low. Is the output still poor when using 'print' or 'prepress' when exporting to PDF in OO? Prepress should give the best output (2400dpi). If still poor, I think most postscript processing in Linux usually involves ghostscript, usually driven from a script like ps2pdf. May want to start looking at settings there. Bob Brady Hegberg wrote: > Does anybody on this list do a lot of graphics on their Linux box? I > have a graphic I've been working on using OpenOffice.org draw and it > comes out looking like crap. It looks fine when I pull it up in OOo but > when I export it to PDF or JPG it comes out with jaggies and artifacts > in both the background and the text. > > Can anyone suggest another program that can generate PDFs or an idea > what might be causing the problem? > > Thanks, > Brady From tclug at ryanorourke.org Fri May 6 09:27:22 2005 From: tclug at ryanorourke.org (Ryan O'Rourke) Date: Fri May 6 09:28:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] attach to session remotely Message-ID: <427B7ECA.5060406@ryanorourke.org> Is there some way, preferably via ssh, to attach to a remote session of XMMS and add songs to the playlist? I'd like to do it "transparently". Thanks! -- Ryan From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Fri May 6 13:21:30 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Fri May 6 13:22:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] X11 Config error (Gentoo) Message-ID: <20050506182130079b2f9459@mail.smumn.edu> I would like to get Gnome running on a HP zd7000 laptop. I emerged Grub with out error, when I run startx I get the following error:Below that you can see my xorg.conf file. I have been doing some research and since have added the nvidia-kernel module, it kinda seemed strange that at the time of compiling the 2.6.11 kernel it does have the option to enable support for nvidia chips. I have also modified my config file a few times. Google has brought up some helpful hints to properly config this file, yet I am hitting a few bumps. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. One more thing, am also troubled by the mouse0 error when I cat /dev/input/mice I see data. I've had: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mice" & Section "InputDevice" Identifier "USB Mice" and get the same error message! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx # startx X Window System Version 6.8.2 Release Date: 9 February 2005 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.2 Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.11-gentoo-r6 i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux julia 2.6.11-gentoo-r6 #2 SMP Thu May 5 20:41:29 CDT 2005 i686 Build Date: 05 May 2005 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Fri May 6 07:58:56 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" Data incomplete in file /etc/X11/xorg.conf Undefined InputDevice "Mouse0" referenced by ServerLayout "X.org Configured". (EE) Problem parsing the config file (EE) Error parsing the config file Fatal server error: no screens found Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support at http://wiki.X.Org for help. Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf Section "ServerLayout"/X11/xorg.conf Identifier "X.org Configured" Screen "Screen0" InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "Files" RgbPath "/usr/lib/X11/rgb" ModulePath "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/misc/" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/CID/" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/" EndSection Section "Module" Load "extmod" Load "dri" Load "dbe" Load "record" Load "xtrap" Load "glx" Load "type1" Load "freetype" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "MouseO" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Buttons" "3" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "hp pavilion" ModelName "LCD Panel 1280x1024" HorizSync 30 - 64 VertRefresh 50 - 100 Modeline "1280x1024" 75 1280 1024 1184 1328 768 771 777 806 Option "dpms" EndSection Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: : integer, : float, : "True"/"False", ### : "String", : " Hz/kHz/MHz" ### [arg]: arg optional #Option "SWcursor" # [] #Option "HWcursor" # [] #Option "NoAccel" # [] #Option "ShadowFB" # [] #Option "UseFBDev" # [] #Option "Rotate" # [] #Option "VideoKey" # #Option "FlatPanel" # [] #Option "FPDither" # [] #Option "CrtcNumber" # #Option "FPScale" # [] #Option "FPTweak" # Identifier "Card0" Driver "nv" VendorName "nVidia Corporation" BoardName "GeForce FX Go5600" Option "MetaModes" "1280x1024" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 1 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 4 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 8 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 15 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 16 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 Modes "1280x1024" EndSubSection EndSection Section "DRI" Group 0 EndSection XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. Thank you, DAve Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? -George Wallace "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From jeremy at rosengren.org Fri May 6 13:39:58 2005 From: jeremy at rosengren.org (Jeremy Rosengren) Date: Fri May 6 13:40:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] X11 Config error (Gentoo) In-Reply-To: <20050506182130079b2f9459@mail.smumn.edu> References: <20050506182130079b2f9459@mail.smumn.edu> Message-ID: <427BB9FE.6080907@rosengren.org> David Alanis wrote: >Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "MouseO" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" > Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > Option "Buttons" "3" >EndSection > > That identifier should say "Mouse0" (zero) instead of "MouseO" (letter o). -- jeremy From natecars at natecarlson.com Tue May 3 19:13:38 2005 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Fri May 6 17:54:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL In-Reply-To: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Dan Rue wrote: > I just noticed that IPHouse is supporting 7mbps DSL.. Has anyone seen > this or is anyone using it yet? > > It looks like it bumps your qwest cost by about $10.. > > http://www.iphouse.com/services/dsl.html It's supposed to be pretty sweet. I'm really considering moving from cable for it.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From seg at haxxed.com Fri May 6 18:32:31 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Fri May 6 18:38:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Strange ForwardXll issue In-Reply-To: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> References: <20050502191749.GA22068@isis.visi.com> Message-ID: <1115422351.11052.12.camel@bigtime.booze> New versions of OpenSSH have a new "feature", where the -X option enables some kind of crippled X11 mode, where all extensions are disabled and the auth cookie times out after 30 seconds or so. This leads to most applications failing completely, the ones that work can't display popup menus, look like ass because there's no shape extension, and can't use Xrender. x2x fails because there's no XTEST extension. And your tunnel stops accepting new connections after 30 seconds. You have to use -Y on these newer versions to get a real X11 tunnel. What use a brain damaged X11 tunnel castrated to the point of uselessness is, I don't know. Why didn't they just use -Y for brain damaged X, instead of unexpectedly breaking perfectly working setups and causing a working X to have to use the -Y flag which doesn't even make sense. Hey, lets just go all the way and use random Swahili words for command line options! This is unix, f-ck usability! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050506/2ae24b9a/attachment.pgp From seg at haxxed.com Fri May 6 18:38:42 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Fri May 6 18:40:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] attach to session remotely In-Reply-To: <427B7ECA.5060406@ryanorourke.org> References: <427B7ECA.5060406@ryanorourke.org> Message-ID: <1115422722.11052.14.camel@bigtime.booze> On Fri, 2005-05-06 at 09:27 -0500, Ryan O'Rourke wrote: > Is there some way, preferably via ssh, to attach to a remote session > of XMMS and add songs to the playlist? I'd like to do it "transparently". If you can log in to the machine running xmms, you can just use xmms's own command line options. "xmms -h" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050506/8f88abb6/attachment.pgp From joel at joelschneider.net Fri May 6 22:05:54 2005 From: joel at joelschneider.net (Joel Schneider) Date: Fri May 6 22:06:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Graphics and PDF on Linux In-Reply-To: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115311883.20185.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050507030554.GB10920@joelschneider.net> On Thu, May 05, 2005 at 11:51:23AM -0500, Brady Hegberg wrote: > Can anyone suggest another program that can generate PDFs or an idea > what might be causing the problem? Scribus is a general desktop publishing program that could be worth a look: http://www.scribus.org.uk/ Not a drawing program per se, but I think it's good at creating PDFs and can handle things like embedded EPS diagrams. -- Joel Schneider joel@joelschneider.net From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sun May 8 19:40:06 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Sun May 8 19:40:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200505090040.j490e6k09923@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: misc older items system #1..$12 -atx case w/ 235w p/s -amd k6-2 380mhz -50x cdrom -floppy -ide zip drive -8.4gb hd Gigabyte Ga-5ax mobo pci 56k modem system#2....$8 -atx case w/ p/s -12x cdrom -floppy -pII 333 -soyo- sy-6ba pII 350 w/ hs&fan...$3 two pII 400 w/ hs&fan...$4ea pII 450w/ hs&fan...$5 ide zip drive 250mb...$5 ide 1gb...$1 ide 2.1gb...$2 ide 4.3gb...$3 ide 6.4gb...$5 scsiII cdrom drive...$1 this is stuff I am tired of looking at; all items as is; i do not want to take the time to test. Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From wilson at visi.com Sun May 8 22:48:12 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Sun May 8 22:48:43 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems? Message-ID: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> Hey everyone, Anybody got any experience with Monarch Computer Systems? (http:// www.monarchcomputer.com/) I'm considering buying a server for co-location and am looking for a good vendor. I've priced Dell, HP, and IBM, but the Monarch system (AMD Opteron) is quite a bit cheaper. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun May 8 23:13:57 2005 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun May 8 23:14:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What's killing my Apache? Message-ID: Hey all, I've been running apache2 on a debian machine for a while now. Works really well. A few weeks ago, I added mod_ssl and a (self-signed) certificate and started running an SSL-enabled instance. Ever since then, 6:24am on a Sunday morning, Apache dies. Now, obviously something's trying to stop and restart it for some reason, but since there's now a passphrase for the SSL instance, apache can't be started from a non-interactive script. The thing is, I have /no/ idea what's doing it. I looked through all the logs, and all the cron files, and none of them even mention apache (except Apache's own log saying it's being shut down). I've looked in /var/spool/cron and /etc/cron.*, and there's nothing. I grep -i'd fro apache, and nothing. Anyone have any suggestions on where to look? -Yaron -- From tmarble at info9.net Mon May 9 07:10:36 2005 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Mon May 9 07:10:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems? In-Reply-To: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> Message-ID: <427F533C.8060808@info9.net> Tim Wilson wrote: > Anybody got any experience with Monarch Computer Systems? (http:// > www.monarchcomputer.com/) Yes... I have purchased several systems though Monarch and I know of other people that have as well. Generally speaking it's a great company. They are an AMD partner and offer a great website for building a custom whitebox. The negative experiences that people have had are about getting support -- especially phone support. If you are expecting someone to help over the phone should you encounter any glitches then just make sure your expectations are set appropriately. The configuration tools are especially helpful for making sure that you have compatible memory and fans for CPU(s) and the CPU(s) are indeed compatible with the mobo. It's also important to insure that the fans are compatible (i.e. there's enough space) with the enclosure (especially for rack mount or small enclosures). For my own systems I now check compatibility myself and simply order all the parts (from various places). This 100% self-support approach may not be appropriate for a commercial deployment, however. HTH, --Tom From tclug at natecarlson.com Mon May 9 07:29:02 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon May 9 07:28:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What's killing my Apache? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 May 2005, Yaron wrote: > Ever since then, 6:24am on a Sunday morning, Apache dies. > > Now, obviously something's trying to stop and restart it for some > reason, but since there's now a passphrase for the SSL instance, apache > can't be started from a non-interactive script. Logrotate. If you remove the passphrase from the key file, you won't have this issue. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From smac at visi.com Mon May 9 08:57:21 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Mon May 9 09:06:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems? In-Reply-To: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> Message-ID: <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> Are you looking for a PC or a Server? What models are you comparing? Will this be a machine that must be up 24/7, fault tolerant, easy to maintain? What raid will you be running on the system? Sam. Tim Wilson wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Anybody got any experience with Monarch Computer Systems? (http:// > www.monarchcomputer.com/) > > I'm considering buying a server for co-location and am looking for a > good vendor. I've priced Dell, HP, and IBM, but the Monarch system > (AMD Opteron) is quite a bit cheaper. > > -Tim > From webmaster at mn-linux.org Mon May 9 09:47:05 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Mon May 9 09:48:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200505091447.j49El5417272@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Alpha Servers for free Free to good home! Alpha Server L1000A 5/400RM we have 4, take as many as you want! Seller Email address: billh at nssmgmt dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From chrome at real-time.com Mon May 9 11:23:37 2005 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon May 9 11:24:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions for graphics tablet for use under linux Message-ID: <20050509112337.N8075@real-time.com> I tried doing some photo editing this weekend, and got really frustrated by my crappy old trackball (6 years old and a bit worn) when trying to do fine graphics work. I've wanted to get a graphics tablet (pen tablet) for a while. Any suggestions for a good but not excessively expensive model? This isn't something I'll use on a regular basis, so using a small tablet shouldn't be too problematic. Wacom used to be *the* brand to go with. Are they still the ones to use; or is there a competitor now who's just as good and easy to use with Linux? Is installing one of these tablets just as easy as plugging in the USB cable and letting the kernel auto-detect the right driver and load it? -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon May 9 11:39:57 2005 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon May 9 11:40:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions for graphics tablet for use under linux In-Reply-To: <20050509112337.N8075@real-time.com> References: <20050509112337.N8075@real-time.com> Message-ID: Hey, On Mon, 9 May 2005, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Wacom used to be *the* brand to go with. Are they still the ones to use; Yes. Last time I used one on Linux it was way the heck complicated and used a serial port. But it /did/ work. However, at least at the time, nothing in Linux could support the whole pressure sensitivity thing. Also, keep in mind that a tablet takes some getting used to. It's pretty frustrating at first. Well, it is if you're like me and lack any kind of artistic ability (: -Yaron -- From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon May 9 17:39:36 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon May 9 17:40:54 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [tclug-announce] TCLUG Monthly Meeting: Linux, Open Source, and Mathematics - 5/7/2005: Noon-2 PM In-Reply-To: <1114360479.7689.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1114360479.7689.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Apr 2005, Ben Jordan wrote: > Jonathan Rogness from the University of Minnesota's Mathematics > department will be coming to talk to us about his uses of Linux and Open > Source technology in Mathematics and Computer Science. As an avid user > and proponent of both at the U of M, this promises to be an interesting > look into the tools and resources available for thsi application. I attended Jonathan's talk. It was a good overview of how computer programs can be used in mathematics. His interest seemed to be in pure math -- computer proofs and such. He recommended MATLAB, Maple and Mathematica -- all proprietary programs, but noted that Octave may soon be able to replace MATLAB. I agree that Octave is really good, but I was disappointed that there was practically no discussion of alternatives to Maple and Mathematica (I heard him say the word "Maxima" but I didn't hear him describe it at all -- look here: http://maxima.sourceforge.net/). Perhaps Maple/Mathematica are light years ahead of the FOSS competition, but it still would have been nice to hear how they are superior, and to hear what the FOSS alternatives are now able to do. One thing Jonathan left off: R. R is a great program for statistics and graphics. It is a GNU GPL project. Read all about it here: http://www.r-project.org/ I think there is a very high probability that R will ultimately become the #1 stat package, if that hasn't already happened. I guess Jon probably left R off because it is stat and not math. Anyway, I thank Jon for taking the time to do his presentation on a Saturday afternoon. He had many interesting things to show us and his talk was very well received. Mike -- Michael B. Miller, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Division of Epidemiology and Community Health and Institute of Human Genetics University of Minnesota http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/ From bhurt at spnz.org Mon May 9 21:28:14 2005 From: bhurt at spnz.org (Brian Hurt) Date: Mon May 9 21:28:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: [tclug-announce] TCLUG Monthly Meeting: Linux, Open Source, and Mathematics - 5/7/2005: Noon-2 PM In-Reply-To: References: <1114360479.7689.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 May 2005, Mike Miller wrote: > I attended Jonathan's talk. It was a good overview of how computer programs > can be used in mathematics. His interest seemed to be in pure math -- > computer proofs and such. I'm really sorry I wasn't able to make it (conflict schedules). I will point out the Coq proof assistant: http://coq.inria.fr/ Which was used to help verify the four-color theorem: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~rzach/logblog/2005/04/four-color-theorem-verified-in-coq.html I comment this because Coq is written in Ocaml. Brian From kfuchs at winternet.com Mon May 9 23:29:33 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Mon May 9 23:30:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems? In-Reply-To: <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> (message from Sam MacDonald on Mon, 09 May 2005 08:57:21 -0500) References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> Message-ID: <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Tim Wilson wrote: > Anybody got any experience with Monarch Computer Systems? > (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/) I got a Tyan S2885 system from Monarch Computer Systems about 9 months ago. The system works great with either the original AMI BIOS or the LinuxBIOS (http://wiki.linuxbios.org/) I built and flashed for it. A Tyan mainboard would make an excellent base for a server system and you can "build" your system on-line with quality components and have Monarch do the actual build for $65-75. The component selections that Monarch provides are limited, but they are of very good quality. Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the authenticated operating systems? Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 01:00:09 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 01:00:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: > Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as > LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only > authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the authenticated > operating systems? Wow. That is a disturbing suggestion. Is that really in the works? I'll tell you one thing for sure -- I won't buy any motherboards that cannot run Linux. Mike From smac at visi.com Tue May 10 06:50:01 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 10 06:59:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> I would think that would be configurable and an option for servers not workstations/home computers. Sam. Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 9 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: > >> Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as >> LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only >> authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the >> authenticated operating systems? > > > Wow. That is a disturbing suggestion. Is that really in the works? > I'll tell you one thing for sure -- I won't buy any motherboards that > cannot run Linux. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From now at acegroup.cc Tue May 10 07:09:27 2005 From: now at acegroup.cc (Jon Hartwell) Date: Tue May 10 07:11:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems? Message-ID: <4280A477.8070809@acegroup.cc> I have ordered several dual Opteron servers from Monarch. The servers were very good for the most part. We are basically happy with them and their quality. However, I say that our our dealings with Monarch ordering, tech support and management have led us to avoid using them as a vendor again. We had SEVERAL delays in shipping that caused 2 separate orders that was promised in 10 working days that took several emails/phone calls to get 2 months later. Our last order arrived with big scratches and rust on the case. Needless to say that ended the relationship. From josh at joshwelch.com Tue May 10 07:37:37 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Tue May 10 07:39:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> Message-ID: <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> Quoting Sam MacDonald : > Mike Miller wrote: > > > On Mon, 9 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: > > > >> Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as > >> LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only > >> authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the > >> authenticated operating systems? > > > > > > Wow. That is a disturbing suggestion. Is that really in the works? > > I'll tell you one thing for sure -- I won't buy any motherboards that > > cannot run Linux. > > > > Mike > > > > I would think that would be configurable and an option for servers not > workstations/home computers. > > Sam. What's being referred to here, in a a slightly inflammatory manner, is trusted computing. The concern was raised by Microsoft's attempts to develop their trusted computing platform, Palladium, in conjunction with Intel's Trusted Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA). Microsft's trusted computing implementation would likely be very restrictive and should not be considered a good thing. However, Microsoft, not surprisingly, is considerably behind on their development of Palladium. Hardware companies are already rolling out various components of trusted computing with support provided by third party software the hardware company provides. It is my opinion that trusted computing is going to be driven by the hardware manufacturers, not the software manufacturers. Like all other hardware, as long as specs are made available for how to interoperate with trusted computing features or the community is able to reverse engineer them, this will be a non-issue. Trusted comuting in and of itself is not a bad thing and may be the only way that computing can be made available to the general public in a truly secure fashion. Josh From rwh at visi.com Tue May 10 09:28:16 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Tue May 10 09:29:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> josh@joshwelch.com wrote: >Quoting Sam MacDonald : > > > > > >>Mike Miller wrote: >> >> >> >>>On Mon, 9 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as >>>>LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only >>>>authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the >>>>authenticated operating systems? >>>> >>>> >>>Wow. That is a disturbing suggestion. Is that really in the works? >>>I'll tell you one thing for sure -- I won't buy any motherboards that >>>cannot run Linux. >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>> >>I would think that would be configurable and an option for servers not >>workstations/home computers. >> >>Sam. >> >> > >What's being referred to here, in a a slightly inflammatory manner, is trusted >computing. The concern was raised by Microsoft's attempts to develop their >trusted computing platform, Palladium, in conjunction with Intel's Trusted >Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA). Microsft's trusted computing implementation >would likely be very restrictive and should not be considered a good thing. >However, Microsoft, not surprisingly, is considerably behind on their >development of Palladium. Hardware companies are already rolling out various >components of trusted computing with support provided by third party software >the hardware company provides. > >It is my opinion that trusted computing is going to be driven by the hardware >manufacturers, not the software manufacturers. Like all other hardware, as long >as specs are made available for how to interoperate with trusted computing >features or the community is able to reverse engineer them, this will be a >non-issue. > >Trusted comuting in and of itself is not a bad thing and may be the only way >that computing can be made available to the general public in a truly secure >fashion. > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way that it can be good for OSS. For it to be effective it has to be enforced by both hardware and software from the moment the machine is turned on. The BIOS has to verify that it has not been modified, it has to be able to verify that the boot loader has been signed by someone the BIOS trusts and hasn't been modified, which has to verify that the OS being loaded is from a trusted source, etc. The bottom line is that you can't run untrusted software on a trusted system and still have a trusted system. The obvious way to do that is to digitally sign everything in sight using certificates that trace back to some 'god' certificate for the planet :-) For this to be effective you aren't going to just hand these signing certificates out to everyone who wants to write an OSS application. Any software that gets signed is also going to have to go through an approval process that verifies that it enforces all of the trust requirements and is secure enough that it can't be compromised. The natural weakness, and strength, of OSS is its lack of organizational structure. There's no one on our end to sign licenses or NDAs for things like device drivers, CSS routines, etc. Who is going to manage all of the OSS submission to get applications signed? Just think of the delay in getting new versions and patches verified, tested, approved and signed :-( Say hello to the return of the monolithic kernel. The usual argument is that you can just turn off the 'trust' and run Linux as usual, but the ultimate goal is to build a trusted net where trusted systems will only talk to trusted systems. That certainly kills spam, viruses, worms, etc. but it also leaves untrusted systems only able to talk to untrusted systems. So if you are running an untrusted version of Linux you can get the latest kernel patch but you can't order the latest O'Reilly book from Amazon. It doesn't sound like fun to me. I think the commercial and logistics involved will keep trusted computing from happening anytime soon. I'm not sure that vendors will be willing to turn off access to customers running older and untrusted systems. Windows only uses a small part of the capabilities of its security model because most developers aren't capable of tracing through what privileges they need to which resources to figure out the minimal access required to run their apps. Can you imagine these same folks operating in an environment where *every* release has to be thoroughly tested, verified and signed before release? And of course my biggest fear is that someone will forget to renew the 'god' certificate and every trusted system on the planet will refuse to boot :-) --rick From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 09:49:51 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 09:55:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way > that it can be good for OSS. Can't we come up with another name for it? I think "trusted computing" sounds like a marketing phrase - designed to manipulate our feelings. We should call it something else. What should we call it? > The usual argument is that you can just turn off the 'trust' and run > Linux as usual, but the ultimate goal is to build a trusted net where > trusted systems will only talk to trusted systems. That certainly kills > spam, viruses, worms, etc. but it also leaves untrusted systems only > able to talk to untrusted systems. I don't really understand this. If an executable file cannot be executed unless it is "trusted," how does that stop perl, say, from doing something nasty? Perl is the executable, but it is interpreting a script, and the script could do bad things. If I have a "trusted" computer, how does that stop me from sending an unsolicited e-mail message to another "trusted" computer? I'm sure Microsoft would love to do away with TCP/IP altogether and replace it with MSnet, or whatever, but they'll never be able to do it. "Trusted computing" sounds like a move in that direction, but I don't see how it can work for them. Mike From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com Tue May 10 10:05:05 2005 From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Tue May 10 10:07:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> Message-ID: <307a337f050510080574a93cc7@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way > that it can be good for OSS. For it to be effective it has to be Am I mistaken, or didn't Linus just state that trusted computing was an idea whose time has come? I think most of the open source community has taken a rather Ned Lud view point on this whereas I think it will be more of a tide that raises the level of all the ships (Linux, Unix, Windows, etc) It might be a little more work for everyone, but it will get done. From smac at visi.com Tue May 10 10:31:33 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 10 10:41:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> Message-ID: <4280D3D5.808@visi.com> If the hardware industry is pushing this standard the closed source OS people will not understand how to us the platform for a long time. Look at the 64bit platform, M$ still doesn't have a stable 64bit desktop. Most NIXs have 64bit in production, for a long time. I run FC3x64 on my Athlon 64 machine (screeming fast by the way) sense December. M$ XP64 was on it but nothing but 32bit apps are available and some don't run on XP64, the good ones anyway ;-) The only reason I shutdown the machine is because of thunder storms! M$ has an OS that is just to complex to change easily, to many dependencys scattered through out their entire system. You can't run Active Directory without their (M$) DNS, the logic is to get companies to move away from Bind and other DNS's. As a business move "someone" could say thats smart. I would say it's under handed not to work together, to make a network stable with a combination of products. M$ does not trust anyone with their source, so when it comes to making hardware work with M$ systems it will not happen, if the hardware industry holds the keys to the standard. Hardware manufactures will still need to get on the HCL for M$ OSs to get the standard accepted. If they don't the OSS community will need to pull together to make this a success (as is always the case). What ever happened to the LIM (Lotus, Intel, and Microsoft) memory standard (I know that dates me). The reason M$ OSs need to be restarted is they never stuck to the standard the hardware industry set. M$ wants everyone to use their standards, VB, .NET, C#, etc... Just my 2 bits. Sam. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 10:42:52 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 10:43:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <307a337f050510080574a93cc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> <307a337f050510080574a93cc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Ryan Ware wrote: > On 5/10/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > >> If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way >> that it can be good for OSS. For it to be effective it has to be > > Am I mistaken, or didn't Linus just state that trusted computing was an > idea whose time has come? I would say that there are some indications of that: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22trusted+computing%22+torvalds > I think most of the open source community has taken a rather Ned Lud > view point on this whereas I think it will be more of a tide that raises > the level of all the ships (Linux, Unix, Windows, etc) It might be a > little more work for everyone, but it will get done. Or maybe it will be an unparalleled disaster that puts giant multinational corporations in control of what we can do with our computers... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5858 Mike From rwh at visi.com Tue May 10 10:53:50 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Tue May 10 10:55:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> Message-ID: <4280D90E.2060107@visi.com> Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > >> If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no >> way that it can be good for OSS. > > > Can't we come up with another name for it? I think "trusted > computing" sounds like a marketing phrase - designed to manipulate our > feelings. We should call it something else. What should we call it? > Trusted versions of operating systems have been around for years but were usually pitched to government users. "trusted computing" is just an extension of that nomenclature. > >> The usual argument is that you can just turn off the 'trust' and run >> Linux as usual, but the ultimate goal is to build a trusted net where >> trusted systems will only talk to trusted systems. That certainly >> kills spam, viruses, worms, etc. but it also leaves untrusted systems >> only able to talk to untrusted systems. > > > I don't really understand this. If an executable file cannot be > executed unless it is "trusted," how does that stop perl, say, from > doing something nasty? Perl is the executable, but it is interpreting > a script, and the script could do bad things. If I have a "trusted" > computer, how does that stop me from sending an unsolicited e-mail > message to another "trusted" computer? > The obvious answer would be that things like perl would either have to go away, or be built to enforce the trust requirements. Access to system services would be tightly controlled to keep you from doing anything particularly nasty - this capability is already embedded in the hardened versions of the trusted versions of SunOS, AIX, etc. If you look at SELinux, it is capable of enforcing these types of restrictions. The NSA specifically says that SELinux is not 'trusted' because that has a very specific technical meaning to them, but they point out that the potential is there to make it trusted by building the necessary enforcement framework into the kernel and doing away with things like the ability to turn it off. Trusted OS's are very cool, and properly configured they will let a sysadmin sleep soundly at night - root is just another account with no special privileges. But they are a pain in the butt to administer so they tend to get used in servers more than client machines. That brings up the other big issue with the concept of trusted computing. If the average net user can't be trusted not to install spyware on their machine, or run an anti-virus client, how can they be trusted with administrative privileges to their machine? The answer is they can't. In the MS model the administration of your machine will be done by a third party who takes care of installing/updating software, etc. The end user won't be given sufficient privileges to screw things up. I think you can also see the roadblocks that places on developing your own software on a trusted system. BTW, in a trusted net you certainly can send unsolicited e-mail from one trusted host to another, but you won't be able to do it anonymously like you can now. That makes it much easier to enforce regulations on unsolicited e-mail because it no longer requires a lot of work to track down the offenders, and if you add them to a certificate revocation list you can effectively blacklist them from the network. > I'm sure Microsoft would love to do away with TCP/IP altogether and > replace it with MSnet, or whatever, but they'll never be able to do > it. "Trusted computing" sounds like a move in that direction, but I > don't see how it can work for them. > I'm actually pretty optimistic about trusted computing. Microsoft's vision is a pipe dream because we simply aren't sufficiently disciplined as developers and users to make it work. There's also the issue of control. If you are going to have a trusted global network it implies some global entity administering the process so we know that a US trusted system meets the same requirements as a Chinese trusted system. I don't see that happening soon. On the other hand, as products like Linux, and probably OSX, start incorporating mandatory access controls like SELinux we can get most of the benefit without losing control to some inept international Big Brother'. If my server is configured to only allow administrative privileges to specific accounts where the packets come in from a specific interface, all sorts of exploits go away. If my mail client runs in a very limited security context, it doesn't matter what kind of crap you send to me because the process simply doesn't have the ability to do anything to the system. If my system only allows administrative access from tty1 there is nothing I can do in another session that will effect the underlying system. --rick From rwh at visi.com Tue May 10 11:05:59 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Tue May 10 11:07:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <307a337f050510080574a93cc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> <307a337f050510080574a93cc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4280DBE7.50803@visi.com> Ryan Ware wrote: >On 5/10/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > > > >>If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way >>that it can be good for OSS. For it to be effective it has to be >> >> > >Am I mistaken, or didn't Linus just state that trusted computing was >an idea whose time has come? > > >I think most of the open source community has taken a rather Ned Lud >view point on this whereas I think it will be more of a tide that >raises the level of all the ships (Linux, Unix, Windows, etc) It >might be a little more work for everyone, but it will get done. > > > I'm guilty of misusing 'trusted'. I think Linus is talking about what is usually called a trusted os with mandatory access controls and the likes. These assign levels of trust to different users, processes, interfaces, etc. but they tend to be self-contained within a system. When MS talks about 'trusted' they are talking about locking down the net so that only trusted systems can talk to trusted systems, and a trusted system won't talk to untrusted systems - and of course they get to define what constitutes a trusted system. --rick From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 11:12:47 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 11:13:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <1115741274.4280dc5a8e8de@joshwelch.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> <1115741274.4280dc5a8e8de@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Sam MacDonald, Richard Hoffbeck, Josh and anyone else who chimed in. I get the impression that "trusted computing" is a legitimate idea that has been around for a while, but that some new efforts are undesirable, overreaching and doomed to failure. For once, failure is good. It looks like RMS's worst fears will not be realized. Mike From josh at joshwelch.com Tue May 10 11:07:54 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Tue May 10 11:13:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> Message-ID: <1115741274.4280dc5a8e8de@joshwelch.com> Quoting Mike Miller : > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > > > If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way > > that it can be good for OSS. > > Can't we come up with another name for it? I think "trusted computing" > sounds like a marketing phrase - designed to manipulate our feelings. We > should call it something else. What should we call it? > The phrase trusted computing actually originates from the authors of the orange book, the old DoD computer security manual. It is exactly what is says, computing that you can trust. The reason you can trust it is because it has been verified by someone with whom you have some trust relationship. > > The usual argument is that you can just turn off the 'trust' and run > > Linux as usual, but the ultimate goal is to build a trusted net where > > trusted systems will only talk to trusted systems. That certainly kills > > spam, viruses, worms, etc. but it also leaves untrusted systems only > > able to talk to untrusted systems. > > I don't really understand this. If an executable file cannot be executed > unless it is "trusted," how does that stop perl, say, from doing something > nasty? Perl is the executable, but it is interpreting a script, and the > script could do bad things. If I have a "trusted" computer, how does that > stop me from sending an unsolicited e-mail message to another "trusted" > computer? In a trusted comuting environment all executables are restricted in what they can do. A perl script is going to be a child process of the perl executable and will inherit the restirctions placed upon the perl executable. If you use compiled perl, then the compiled executable would need to be trusted. > I'm sure Microsoft would love to do away with TCP/IP altogether and > replace it with MSnet, or whatever, but they'll never be able to do it. > "Trusted computing" sounds like a move in that direction, but I don't see > how it can work for them. Again, lets not confuse Microsoft with Trusted Computing, the two are quite far from being one and the same. What we are actually discussing is open versus closed. The concern would be a move in the personal comuting industry towards a closed platform with proprietary standards, not the adaptation of trusted computing per se. Josh From rwh at visi.com Tue May 10 11:19:57 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Tue May 10 11:27:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> <307a337f050510080574a93cc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4280DF2D.10600@visi.com> Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Ryan Ware wrote: > >> On 5/10/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: >> >> >>> If you look at the requirements of 'trusted computing' there is no way >>> that it can be good for OSS. For it to be effective it has to be >> >> >> Am I mistaken, or didn't Linus just state that trusted computing was >> an idea whose time has come? > > > I would say that there are some indications of that: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22trusted+computing%22+torvalds > > >> I think most of the open source community has taken a rather Ned Lud >> view point on this whereas I think it will be more of a tide that >> raises the level of all the ships (Linux, Unix, Windows, etc) It >> might be a little more work for everyone, but it will get done. > > > Or maybe it will be an unparalleled disaster that puts giant > multinational corporations in control of what we can do with our > computers... > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5858 > He was talking about SELinux. The underlying issue, as Stallman points out, is who gets to determine who is 'trusted'. I'd prefer it was me :-) Linus was also open to including DRM into Linux. I don't have any problem with that, but you can't have effective DRM unless you take the determination of trust out of the hands of the machine owner. Otherwise, as Bruce Schneier is always pointing out, you're DRM scheme will be broken if you have free access to the hardware and software. The breaks of Apple and MS's DRM makes that pretty clear. --rick From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue May 10 11:28:11 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Tue May 10 11:29:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200505101628.j4AGSBW07058@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Houses Apartments and Roomates Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Sailboat My sister (Dawn) is selling the house and will not have a place to park her sailboat. Dawn put a lot of time and no small abount of money in to getting this boat on the water. 1982 Buccaneer 18-foot sailboat Rigging and Sails in great shape Trailer is rebuilt new hitch, bearings, tires, and rollers. I have googled for 18-foot sailboats and found the prices are between $2500 and $3500 for this kind of boat. I think she would keep the boat if she could but I don't think it's in the cards. Sam smac at visi dot com Seller Email address: smac at visi dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue May 10 15:27:14 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue May 10 15:27:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <4280D3D5.808@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> <4280D3D5.808@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > You can't run Active Directory without their (M$) DNS, the logic is to > get companies to move away from Bind and other DNS's. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/interopmigration/linux/mvc/cfgbind.mspx Link at Microsoft about using BIND for your AD backend. It is certainly possible, although it's not their recommended config. > M$ does not trust anyone with their source Well, not totally true, they do license it out to some clients/schools with a heavy NDA.. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From chris.smith at apigroupinc.us Tue May 10 16:36:51 2005 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.us (Christopher Smith) Date: Tue May 10 16:39:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) Message-ID: I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system drive to the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output error) I know I saw something about a work around on this in one of the linux magazines... linux-journal or linux-mag.. does anyone recall that? Or have any other suggestions? If it wasn't in Seattle I'd probably use knoppix or some live cd to remove it but that isnt' an option sadly. TIA, Christopher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050510/9f3969f0/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 16:57:29 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 16:59:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Christopher Smith wrote: > I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system drive > to the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output error) > > I know I saw something about a work around on this in one of the linux > magazines... linux-journal or linux-mag.. does anyone recall that? Or > have any other suggestions? If it wasn't in Seattle I'd probably use > knoppix or some live cd to remove it but that isnt' an option sadly. Can you still get process status? If so, try to find the errant process and kill it. I'm assuming something has run amok. That happened to me recently. As soon as I killed the thing, a few dozen gigs appeared. Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Tue May 10 17:00:56 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue May 10 17:03:09 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/10/05, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system drive to > the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output error) You may have already tried this, but did you try running rm as root? Most filesystems will save ~5% of the disk for the root user. From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 10 17:10:51 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 10 17:16:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <741dcbb80505101510746d1540@mail.gmail.com> Is saying it can't fork a new process or is it erroring because the hard drive is full? On 5/10/05, Mike Miller wrote: > > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system drive > > to the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output error) > > > > I know I saw something about a work around on this in one of the linux > > magazines... linux-journal or linux-mag.. does anyone recall that? Or > > have any other suggestions? If it wasn't in Seattle I'd probably use > > knoppix or some live cd to remove it but that isnt' an option sadly. > > Can you still get process status? If so, try to find the errant process > and kill it. I'm assuming something has run amok. That happened to me > recently. As soon as I killed the thing, a few dozen gigs appeared. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- http://www.gopherbooks.com - University of Minnesota Students: A free textbook exchange and professor ratings website -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050510/9131416c/attachment.html From scheides at iexposure.com Tue May 10 17:18:12 2005 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Tue May 10 17:19:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200505101718.12161.scheides@iexposure.com> cd really-full-directory/ find . -name "*.gz" -exec rm -f {} \; replace *.gz with whatever type of files you're trying to clear-cut. :) -- Chris Scheidecker Associate Systems Administrator cscheidecker@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com 612.676.1946 x33 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 17:25:31 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 17:27:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80505101510746d1540@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb80505101510746d1540@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > Is saying it can't fork a new process or is it erroring because the hard > drive is full? Even when logged in as root? If you can't do ps as root, try to add more swap, or are *all* partitions full? Mike From smac at visi.com Tue May 10 17:01:20 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 10 17:27:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> a few dozen gigs appeared... That was just funny (not the server issue) but the statement "a few dozen gigs appeared" The days of a 286 running Coherent and a 40mb hard drive are just so much history. Sam. Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Christopher Smith wrote: > >> I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system >> drive to the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output >> error) >> >> I know I saw something about a work around on this in one of the >> linux magazines... linux-journal or linux-mag.. does anyone recall >> that? Or have any other suggestions? If it wasn't in Seattle I'd >> probably use knoppix or some live cd to remove it but that isnt' an >> option sadly. > > > Can you still get process status? If so, try to find the errant > process and kill it. I'm assuming something has run amok. That > happened to me recently. As soon as I killed the thing, a few dozen > gigs appeared. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From christophermsmith at gmail.com Tue May 10 18:09:10 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Tue May 10 18:11:10 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) Message-ID: <42813f1b.16bba3c8.7dbf.ffffb1c9@mx.gmail.com> I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system drive to the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output error) I know I saw something about a work around on this in one of the linux magazines... linux-journal or linux-mag.. does anyone recall that? Or have any other suggestions? If it wasn't in Seattle I'd probably use knoppix or some live cd to remove it but that isnt' an option sadly. TIA, Christopher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050510/b475ce96/attachment.htm From christophermsmith at gmail.com Tue May 10 18:14:36 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Tue May 10 18:19:09 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4281405e.0c8bcb34.7fe1.1f63@mx.gmail.com> I panicked and rebooted, and got back 7.5 gigs.. Really odd.. But pretty much what Mikke Miller mentioned.. Thanks for all the responses everyone.. Very reassuring to know there are people out there willing to lend a hand in a pinch. Chris -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:26 PM To: brock.noland@gmail.com Cc: TCLUG List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) On Tue, 10 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > Is saying it can't fork a new process or is it erroring because the > hard drive is full? Even when logged in as root? If you can't do ps as root, try to add more swap, or are *all* partitions full? Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 10 19:50:43 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 10 19:55:10 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > a few dozen gigs appeared... > > That was just funny (not the server issue) but the statement "a few > dozen gigs appeared" > > The days of a 286 running Coherent and a 40mb hard drive are just so > much history. I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it wouldn't be long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought it was true, but it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're talking about terabytes. Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the 1960s on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing everything on cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently needed. So they managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to buy them an HDD. It was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB and I think it was as big as a washing machine. It probably seemed like a lot of storage space at the time. I bought my first HDD in 1986. It cost me $450 and it held 30 MB because it was a true 20 MB drive with an RLL controller that added 50% to the volume. Back then 30 MB went a long, long way. You *could* still do your work on two 360 KB 5.25" floppies (e.g., WordPerfect 4.2 on one floppy and your data on the other), but it was beginning to get uncomfortable. This was before I had a "high density" floppy drive that held about 1.2 MB on a single 5.25" floppy - that was luxurious! Mike From kfuchs at winternet.com Tue May 10 22:42:31 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Tue May 10 22:43:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: (message from Mike Miller on Tue, 10 May 2005 01:00:09 -0500 (CDT)) References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <200505110342.j4B3gV602623@ecstasy1.winternet.com> >On Mon, 9 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: >> Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as >> LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only >> authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the authenticated >> operating systems? >Wow. That is a disturbing suggestion. Is that really in the works? >I'll tell you one thing for sure -- I won't buy any motherboards that >cannot run Linux. I wouldn't worry about it until Congress passes a law requiring it. Does anyone know when this is likely to happen? It may take a few years to "perfect" this restrictive technology and when it does, Congressmen will look like heroes when they pass a law requiring its use. (It would not allow spyware, viruses, malware of most types to be run which the computing public may welcome.) The freedom to distribute non-authenticated code would disappear. The next advance in malware would be malware that illegally circumvents authentication by either going around the barrier or pretending to be legally authenticated code. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From glim at mycybernet.net Tue May 10 22:52:00 2005 From: glim at mycybernet.net (Gerard Lim) Date: Tue May 10 23:11:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Yet Another Perl Conference final details Message-ID: Hi everyone... This email could be of interest to people interested in the Perl programming language. I know that in Toronto there is a good-sized overlap between Linux people and Perl people (we occasionally hold "joint sessions" of our user group meetings) so we hoped to share this information with Linux folks more widely. There have been some recent developments on the YAPC::NA front, and it has been suggested to us that a reminder might be helpful to some people, so here's a quick summary of the event. Summary ------- YAPC::NA 2005 (Yet Another Perl Conference, North America) in Toronto, Canada, Monday - Wednesday 27 - 29 June, 2005 Home page: http://yapc.org/America/ Conference Location: http://89chestnut.com/ A facility of the University of Toronto Accommodations -------------- Normally registration information would come first, but accommodations are the bottleneck -- our main group reservation (at the conference hotel) expires at the end of the week, and as the conference approaches it will be extremely difficult to find a hotel anywhere in the city. Info on how to book at: http://yapc.org/America/accommodations-2005.shtml Registration ------------ Register now! :-) We are on track to break attendance records at YAPC::NA this year, and we could even sell out before the conference starts. The price for the full 3 days is USD$85. We keep it insanely low through many generous sponsorships and the all-volunteer organizational and speaking crews. Registration info: http://yapc.org/America/register-2005.shtml Direct registration link: http://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=registrant%20info&conference_id=423 Conference Speaking Schedule ---------------------------- We've got an excellent selection of talks and speakers for Perl programmers of all levels, beginner through expert. We are fortunate enough to have presentations coming from some of the most recognizable names in Perl programming today, including Larry Wall, Chip Salzenberg, Dan Sugalski, Autrijus Tang and brian d foy. Summary -- http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/summary.html Day 1 -- http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/day1.html Day 2 -- http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/day2.html Day 3 -- http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/day3.html Lightning Talks --------------- These short (5 minutes each) talks, presented by the conference attendees, are a YAPC tradition. If you're interested please read more about them and sign up: http://www.justanotherperlhacker.org/lightning/ [ This message was sent by Gerard Lim on behalf of the YAPC::NA 2005 Conference organizing committee of the Toronto Perl Mongers. Thanks for your patience and support. ] From seg at haxxed.com Wed May 11 04:00:48 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Wed May 11 04:03:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> Message-ID: <1115802048.14717.1.camel@bigtime.booze> > Can't we come up with another name for it? I think "trusted computing" > sounds like a marketing phrase - designed to manipulate our feelings. We > should call it something else. What should we call it? How about "Bill's Final Solution". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050511/b795965e/attachment.pgp From j_wrocky at comcast.net Wed May 11 04:35:29 2005 From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch) Date: Wed May 11 04:37:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> Message-ID: <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> Mike Miller wrote: > > > I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it wouldn't > be long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought it was > true, but it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're talking > about terabytes. > > Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the > 1960s on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing > everything on cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently > needed. So they managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to > buy them an HDD. It was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB > and I think it was as big as a washing machine. It probably seemed > like a lot of storage space at the time. > > I bought my first HDD in 1986. It cost me $450 and it held 30 MB > because it was a true 20 MB drive with an RLL controller that added > 50% to the volume. Back then 30 MB went a long, long way. You > *could* still do your work on two 360 KB 5.25" floppies (e.g., > WordPerfect 4.2 on one floppy and your data on the other), but it was > beginning to get uncomfortable. This was before I had a "high > density" floppy drive that held about 1.2 MB on a single 5.25" floppy > - that was luxurious! > > Mike > > > The first HDD I remember was at the Minnesota Department of Transportation about 1965, not sure of the storage size but the "drum" was six feet long and about two feet in diameter. The drive was in a cabinet with large windows so every one could watch it spin. It was going to hold all the drivers license, vehicle license and state crime records on the HDD, maybe one meg? Would say back in 1965 the state population was around two million, so one third of the population may have had drivers license and half owned a vehicle and criminal records one tenth? Jerry From smac at visi.com Wed May 11 06:59:33 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed May 11 07:09:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: <200505110342.j4B3gV602623@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <200505110342.j4B3gV602623@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <4281F3A5.2060707@visi.com> Digital TV. The federal government passed that law to force it on us, I'll have to buy a converter. But that's good for the economy (right?), who's economy I don't know. Maybe we need an OSS digital TV converter so I can use a PC to keep channel 2 from wigging out during "Keeping up Appearances". Sam. Ken Fuchs wrote: >>On Mon, 9 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: >> >> > > > >>>Please support Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) BIOSes such as >>>LinuxBIOS, before it's too late. Future BIOSes will execute only >>>authenticated executables. Will GNU/Linux be one of the authenticated >>>operating systems? >>> >>> > > > >>Wow. That is a disturbing suggestion. Is that really in the works? >>I'll tell you one thing for sure -- I won't buy any motherboards that >>cannot run Linux. >> >> > >I wouldn't worry about it until Congress passes a law requiring it. >Does anyone know when this is likely to happen? It may take a few years >to "perfect" this restrictive technology and when it does, Congressmen >will look like heroes when they pass a law requiring its use. (It would >not allow spyware, viruses, malware of most types to be run which the >computing public may welcome.) The freedom to distribute >non-authenticated code would disappear. > >The next advance in malware would be malware that illegally circumvents >authentication by either going around the barrier or pretending to be >legally authenticated code. > >Sincerely, > >Ken Fuchs > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From smac at visi.com Wed May 11 07:08:38 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed May 11 07:19:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> Message-ID: <4281F5C6.9010202@visi.com> If anyone is interested I still have my 5-1/4 inch floppy disks with Coherent and the book. I don't know why I saved it all these years... The book is a great reference... Mark Williams company is defunct but Coherent was the bomb of an OS, on a PC with a 286/386 processor. One of the early PC NIX's that was very missed when the company went under. I was learning C on it when I found out it was all over for Coherent. What a great name for a NIX "Coherent". I really should transfer it to CD to preserve the bits. Sam. Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> a few dozen gigs appeared... >> >> That was just funny (not the server issue) but the statement "a few >> dozen gigs appeared" >> >> The days of a 286 running Coherent and a 40mb hard drive are just so >> much history. > > > > I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it wouldn't > be long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought it was > true, but it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're talking > about terabytes. > > Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the > 1960s on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing > everything on cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently > needed. So they managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to > buy them an HDD. It was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB > and I think it was as big as a washing machine. It probably seemed > like a lot of storage space at the time. > > I bought my first HDD in 1986. It cost me $450 and it held 30 MB > because it was a true 20 MB drive with an RLL controller that added > 50% to the volume. Back then 30 MB went a long, long way. You > *could* still do your work on two 360 KB 5.25" floppies (e.g., > WordPerfect 4.2 on one floppy and your data on the other), but it was > beginning to get uncomfortable. This was before I had a "high > density" floppy drive that held about 1.2 MB on a single 5.25" floppy > - that was luxurious! > > Mike > From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com Wed May 11 08:00:01 2005 From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Wed May 11 08:01:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> Message-ID: <307a337f05051106001d9ca183@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/05, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 10 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > > a few dozen gigs appeared... > > > > That was just funny (not the server issue) but the statement "a few > > dozen gigs appeared" > > > > The days of a 286 running Coherent and a 40mb hard drive are just so > > much history. > > I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it wouldn't be > long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought it was true, but > it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're talking about > terabytes. > > Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the 1960s > on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing everything on > cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently needed. So they > managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to buy them an HDD. It > was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB and I think it was as big > as a washing machine. It probably seemed like a lot of storage space at > the time. I worked with a guy that came from Control Data. He said a co-worker used a discarded HD platter and made it into a table. From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed May 11 08:51:12 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Wed May 11 08:51:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) Message-ID: <5bab831e0505110651118b262b@mail.gmail.com> I didn't see this go through so I'm resending to let everyone know all is well now... If it went through before and I missed it sorry for the repost: I panicked and rebooted, and got back 7.5 gigs.. Really odd.. But pretty much what Mikke Miller mentioned.. Thanks for all the responses everyone.. Very reassuring to know there are people out there willing to lend a hand in a pinch. Chris -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:26 PM To: brock.noland@gmail.com Cc: TCLUG List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) On Tue, 10 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > Is saying it can't fork a new process or is it erroring because the > hard drive is full? Even when logged in as root? If you can't do ps as root, try to add more swap, or are *all* partitions full? Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rwh at visi.com Wed May 11 09:00:20 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Wed May 11 09:01:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: <4281F3A5.2060707@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <200505110342.j4B3gV602623@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <4281F3A5.2060707@visi.com> Message-ID: <42820FF4.6080701@visi.com> Well there's always Gnu Radio which seems to be decoding HDTV these days, http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/ --rick Sam MacDonald wrote: > Digital TV. > The federal government passed that law to force it on us, I'll have to > buy a converter. But that's good for the economy (right?), who's > economy I don't know. Maybe we need an OSS digital TV converter so I > can use a PC to keep channel 2 from wigging out during "Keeping up > Appearances". > > Sam. From rwh at visi.com Wed May 11 09:04:17 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Wed May 11 09:05:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> Message-ID: <428210E1.203@visi.com> And now I have a database with 2 copies of the MN drivers license database and 1 copy of the WI DL database - the compressed encrypted backup image only takes up half of the 1GB memory key on my key chain. --rick Jerry Weihrauch wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: > >> >> >> I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it >> wouldn't be long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought >> it was true, but it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're >> talking about terabytes. >> >> Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the >> 1960s on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing >> everything on cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently >> needed. So they managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to >> buy them an HDD. It was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB >> and I think it was as big as a washing machine. It probably seemed >> like a lot of storage space at the time. >> >> I bought my first HDD in 1986. It cost me $450 and it held 30 MB >> because it was a true 20 MB drive with an RLL controller that added >> 50% to the volume. Back then 30 MB went a long, long way. You >> *could* still do your work on two 360 KB 5.25" floppies (e.g., >> WordPerfect 4.2 on one floppy and your data on the other), but it was >> beginning to get uncomfortable. This was before I had a "high >> density" floppy drive that held about 1.2 MB on a single 5.25" floppy >> - that was luxurious! >> >> Mike >> >> >> > The first HDD I remember was at the Minnesota Department of > Transportation about 1965, not sure of the storage size but the "drum" > was six feet long and about two feet in diameter. The drive was in a > cabinet with large windows so every one could watch it spin. It was > going to hold all the drivers license, vehicle license and state crime > records on the HDD, maybe one meg? Would say back in 1965 the state > population was around two million, so one third of the population may > have had drivers license and half owned a vehicle and criminal records > one tenth? > > Jerry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed May 11 09:54:32 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed May 11 09:55:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Trusted systems (subject changed) In-Reply-To: <1115802048.14717.1.camel@bigtime.booze> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <42809FE9.6080301@visi.com> <1115728657.4280ab11de1af@joshwelch.com> <4280C500.9090400@visi.com> <1115802048.14717.1.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 May 2005, Callum Lerwick wrote: mike miller wrote: >> Can't we come up with another name for it? I think "trusted computing" >> sounds like a marketing phrase - designed to manipulate our feelings. We >> should call it something else. What should we call it? > > How about "Bill's Final Solution". I found out later that RMS is calling it "treacherous computing." Mike From sraun at fireopal.org Wed May 11 10:39:51 2005 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Wed May 11 10:41:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What certifications? Message-ID: <20050511153951.GB21049@fireopal.org> It is my belief that in three weeks I'm going to loose my job due to a corporate merger. I've been doing Helpdesk and Junior Network Admin stuff in a predominantly Windows shop - we've got some Novell file / print servers we're phasing out, and I've been doing some NIS user maintenance. At home I'm running Debian testing - it's providing mail and web services for fireopal.org and ytilaer.com. My mid to long-term job goal is to end up in a full-time Unix admin position - assuming I can get some training money out of the MN unemployment folks, what certifications should I try to get? My interest in MC* is minimal - I don't _want_ to work with Windows servers. What would you get first? -- Scott Raun sraun@fireopal.org From seg at haxxed.com Wed May 11 13:36:34 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Wed May 11 13:37:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: <4281F3A5.2060707@visi.com> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <200505110342.j4B3gV602623@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <4281F3A5.2060707@visi.com> Message-ID: <1115836594.14717.5.camel@bigtime.booze> On Wed, 2005-05-11 at 06:59 -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > Digital TV. > The federal government passed that law to force it on us, I'll have to > buy a converter. But that's good for the economy (right?), who's economy > I don't know. Maybe we need an OSS digital TV converter so I can use a From what I understand, mainly the FCC wants to "recover" the frequency ranges that have been reserved for television for so long. For what, I don't know. Corporate handouts for kickbacks as usual? There ain't crap worth watching on broadcast anymore anyway. Except PBS. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050511/8beb6e22/attachment.pgp From whiterabbit1 at gmail.com Wed May 11 13:58:26 2005 From: whiterabbit1 at gmail.com (Ryan Ware) Date: Wed May 11 14:03:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: authenticated executables ("Anyone used Monarch Computer Systems?") In-Reply-To: <1115836594.14717.5.camel@bigtime.booze> References: <595BFBC2-9990-4BFD-A04C-C4D121F0D4F2@visi.com> <427F6C41.7070405@visi.com> <200505100429.j4A4TXA21151@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <200505110342.j4B3gV602623@ecstasy1.winternet.com> <4281F3A5.2060707@visi.com> <1115836594.14717.5.camel@bigtime.booze> Message-ID: <307a337f050511115875b57b9f@mail.gmail.com> On 5/11/05, Callum Lerwick wrote: > On Wed, 2005-05-11 at 06:59 -0500, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > Digital TV. > > The federal government passed that law to force it on us, I'll have to > > buy a converter. But that's good for the economy (right?), who's economy > > I don't know. Maybe we need an OSS digital TV converter so I can use a > > From what I understand, mainly the FCC wants to "recover" the frequency > ranges that have been reserved for television for so long. For what, I > don't know. Corporate handouts for kickbacks as usual? The frequencies they want to recover were only temporarily granted to broadcasters with the understanding they would revert back to the FCC after we all digitalized. Those frequencies are/will be very lucrative for the FCC to sell and the broadcasters want to avoid paying full market value at all costs. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed May 11 14:02:47 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed May 11 14:09:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] April 2007? Message-ID: The most recent entry in our archive is for April 2007!!... http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/ It contains one message... http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2007-April/025441.html ...but that message must have been sent by someone with a bad date on his computer, or maybe the listserve had an incorrect date for a short time for some reason. Anyway, I think we should fix it. Mike From chris.smith at apigroupinc.us Tue May 10 17:00:53 2005 From: chris.smith at apigroupinc.us (Christopher Smith) Date: Thu May 12 11:49:01 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) In-Reply-To: <16038911.1115762252648.JavaMail.root@Sniper27> Message-ID: You are right.. I panicked, crossed fingers, rebooted and got 7.5 gigs.. Weird. Thanks! Chris -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller@taxa.epi.umn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:57 PM To: Christopher Smith Cc: TCLUG List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] totally full / (can't rm) On Tue, 10 May 2005, Christopher Smith wrote: > I have a remote server that managed to quickly fill up its system > drive to the point that it can't even run rm (I get an input/output > error) > > I know I saw something about a work around on this in one of the linux > magazines... linux-journal or linux-mag.. does anyone recall that? Or > have any other suggestions? If it wasn't in Seattle I'd probably use > knoppix or some live cd to remove it but that isnt' an option sadly. Can you still get process status? If so, try to find the errant process and kill it. I'm assuming something has run amok. That happened to me recently. As soon as I killed the thing, a few dozen gigs appeared. Mike From seg at haxxed.com Thu May 12 11:50:52 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Thu May 12 11:55:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions for graphics tablet for use under linux In-Reply-To: <20050509112337.N8075@real-time.com> References: <20050509112337.N8075@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1115916652.14717.30.camel@bigtime.booze> On Mon, 2005-05-09 at 11:23 -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I tried doing some photo editing this weekend, and got really frustrated by > my crappy old trackball (6 years old and a bit worn) when trying to do fine > graphics work. > > I've wanted to get a graphics tablet (pen tablet) for a while. Any > suggestions for a good but not excessively expensive model? This isn't > something I'll use on a regular basis, so using a small tablet shouldn't be > too problematic. > > Wacom used to be *the* brand to go with. Are they still the ones to use; or > is there a competitor now who's just as good and easy to use with Linux? > > Is installing one of these tablets just as easy as plugging in the USB cable > and letting the kernel auto-detect the right driver and load it? My wife was given an old serial 12x12in Wacom Intuos by someone who moved to a Mac and can't use it anymore. Just had to plug it in to a serial port and add some stuff to xorg.conf/XF86Conf. Works greatr but there doesn't seem to be support out of the box for function keys and switching mouse/tablet mode like the windows drivers can. Most Wacom's seem to be supported these days. Including USB. There's also a series of tablets from Aiptek, and widely OEM-ed, with drivers available: http://aiptektablet.sourceforge.net/ However these tablets are cheapass, flimsy, and require a bulky AAA battery in the pen/mouse. Unlike Wacoms. I also have one of these. There's an odd quirk using the mouse it comes with. If you don't hold it perfectly straight up and down, when you click, the cursor jumps away about 20 pixels. Really really annoying. I'd avoid these. Sadly, the drivers for the Aiptek now seem to have a nice GUI tool to configure it, whereas the Wacom doesn't seem to have one. Bleh. If you want to save some cash, I'd look around for an old serial Wacom. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050512/68064268/attachment.pgp From erikerik at gmail.com Thu May 12 15:48:06 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu May 12 15:49:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] wireless captive proxies? Message-ID: I know this has been discussed a bit in the past here, but I couldn't find very many opinions/gotchas/recommendations/etc on them. So...I'll bring it up again. I'm looking to set up a nocat-esque captive proxy system for our wireless access points here at work. Has anyone set up systems like this in the past? If so, did you implement nocat? Some other system? >From my research, there seem to be two major contenders in the OSS market: NoCatAuth (http://nocat.net) and ChiliSpot (http://www.chillispot.org) Any others I should be evaluating? I guess my only requirements are that 1) users authenticate via a webpage and 2) either radius or OpenLDAP can be used as the auth backend. I haven't started playing around yet with these systems...I'm just trying to do a bit of homework before I dive in. Thanks! -Erik From sulrich at botwerks.org Thu May 12 17:49:47 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Thu May 12 17:51:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] wireless captive proxies? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04d218b69991266c675886fca3d6802b@botwerks.org> On May 12, 2005, at 3:48 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > I know this has been discussed a bit in the past here, but I couldn't > find very many opinions/gotchas/recommendations/etc on them. > So...I'll bring it up again. > > I'm looking to set up a nocat-esque captive proxy system for our > wireless access points here at work. Has anyone set up systems like > this in the past? If so, did you implement nocat? Some other system? > >> From my research, there seem to be two major contenders in the OSS >> market: > > NoCatAuth (http://nocat.net) > and > ChiliSpot (http://www.chillispot.org) > > Any others I should be evaluating? I guess my only requirements are > that 1) users authenticate via a webpage and 2) either radius or > OpenLDAP can be used as the auth backend. I haven't started playing > around yet with these systems...I'm just trying to do a bit of > homework before I dive in. > i've configured the nocat captive portal in the past for my home hotspot. last i checked, it had a variety of authentication mechanisms available to it. i haven't configured it in ages but i don't recall it being particularly onerous. if you're looking for a good support community the nocat list seems to have a reasonable amount of activity. i can't speak to the chilispot stuff at all. sorry. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From admin at lctn.org Fri May 13 13:07:54 2005 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri May 13 13:09:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] su not working for me Message-ID: <57052.64.8.149.194.1116007674.squirrel@64.8.149.194> When I ssh to one of our servers as a normal user and su to root, none of the root commands will work; ifconfig, service xx start, etc.. The shell indicates ifconfig and service cannot be found. Whoami shows I am logged in as root?? Raymond From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com Fri May 13 13:25:11 2005 From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com) Date: Fri May 13 13:25:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] su not working for me Message-ID: <1116008711.3817719754.23861.sendItem@bloglines.com> --- Raymond Norton the root commands will work; ifconfig, service xx start, etc.. The shell > indicates ifconfig and service cannot be found. Whoami shows I am logged > in as root?? > > > Raymond try `su -` Adding the dash on the end should reset all of your environment variables and whatnot. Right now you're probably logged in as root, but your $PATH is probably not being updated (i.e. /sbin and /usr/sbin isn't being added to the path, so it can't find the system binaries) From dru at druswanderings.net Fri May 13 13:25:28 2005 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Fri May 13 13:29:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] su not working for me In-Reply-To: <57052.64.8.149.194.1116007674.squirrel@64.8.149.194> References: <57052.64.8.149.194.1116007674.squirrel@64.8.149.194> Message-ID: <4284F118.60200@druswanderings.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Raymond Norton wrote: > When I ssh to one of our servers as a normal user and su to root, none of > the root commands will work; ifconfig, service xx start, etc.. The shell > indicates ifconfig and service cannot be found. Whoami shows I am logged > in as root?? > Some distros don't add the */sbin entries to your path when you su (I know Redhat does this). You can do three things: 1> su - This will handle the su command as a login and setup environment variables as if you had logged in as root and not su 2> export PATH=$PATH:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/sbin You can do this after 'su'ing to add those paths to you current path 3> type the entire path to the command ie. /sbin/mount - -- The Wandering Dru GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F http://www.druswanderings.net Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFChPEYiwhv4FBqkV8RAuXgAKDEeyi/eLCH5Hy/oqrnKRGRgNJ8mQCgrIzs OmF4l0tTVU+N1QTUmPa4Oa0= =QFwd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From josh at joshwelch.com Fri May 13 13:33:08 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Fri May 13 13:33:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] su not working for me In-Reply-To: <57052.64.8.149.194.1116007674.squirrel@64.8.149.194> References: <57052.64.8.149.194.1116007674.squirrel@64.8.149.194> Message-ID: <1116009188.4284f2e4679b0@joshwelch.com> Quoting Raymond Norton : > When I ssh to one of our servers as a normal user and su to root, none of > the root commands will work; ifconfig, service xx start, etc.. The shell > indicates ifconfig and service cannot be found. Whoami shows I am logged > in as root?? > > > Raymond > Doing a simple su does not change your path, so things normally available to root will not be found. Do an su - to get root's environment variables. Elevates privlieges but still uses your environment: $ su Elevates privileges and uses root's environment: $ su - Josh From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri May 13 19:46:33 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri May 13 19:47:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DirecTiVo hacker? - can pay you Message-ID: I'm just tired of the limitations of my DirecTiVo system and I would really like to find a way to improve it but I don't have time to try to do it myself. The number one thing I'd like to be able to do is copy files off of it so that I can burn them to DVD. If I can't do that, I'd like to be able to sort programs in the program list, or organize them somehow, preferably in a hierarchical directory tree, but maybe that's impossible. My box is a Philips DSR708. If anyone knows how to make it do something and wants to make some money for it, let me know. Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Fri May 13 21:25:30 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Fri May 13 21:25:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? Message-ID: Anyone know of software to generate the XML necessary for podcasts? I already have the audio files...I just need to generate the needed RSS-type feed. Searching through freshmeat/sourceforge/etc didn't give any options that I could find. thanks! From wilson at visi.com Fri May 13 21:57:12 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Fri May 13 21:57:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69E53766-A4D1-49F5-8741-BAE9F98323F6@visi.com> On May 13, 2005, at 9:25 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > Anyone know of software to generate the XML necessary for podcasts? I > already have the audio files...I just need to generate the needed > RSS-type feed. It won't quite do what you need, but if you've got any hacker skills then maybe you could modify Dan Bricklin's ListGarden product (http:// www.softwaregarden.com/products/listgarden/). I had a project like this in the back of my head for a while. You could also set up WordPress and use that to generate the feed. -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org From erikerik at gmail.com Fri May 13 22:00:34 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Fri May 13 22:01:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: <69E53766-A4D1-49F5-8741-BAE9F98323F6@visi.com> References: <69E53766-A4D1-49F5-8741-BAE9F98323F6@visi.com> Message-ID: On 5/13/05, Tim Wilson wrote: > > It won't quite do what you need, but if you've got any hacker skills > then maybe you could modify Dan Bricklin's ListGarden product (http:// > www.softwaregarden.com/products/listgarden/). I had a project like > this in the back of my head for a while. You could also set up > WordPress and use that to generate the feed. Hrm - interesting. Thanks for the pointer. I'm beginning to think, though, that it might just be worth it for me to delve into php's xml functions and write something custom. From jpmahowald at gmail.com Fri May 13 23:02:56 2005 From: jpmahowald at gmail.com (John Mahowald) Date: Fri May 13 23:03:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Counter LUG list Message-ID: <3ea99754050513210230a1415e@mail.gmail.com> I do not see TCLUG in the Linux Counter's list of LUGs, http://lugww.counter.li.org/groups.cms?&cc=US&rc=MN Would someone with the authority to please correct this? From jima at beer.tclug.org Fri May 13 23:19:55 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Fri May 13 23:21:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Counter LUG list In-Reply-To: <3ea99754050513210230a1415e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 May 2005, John Mahowald wrote: > I do not see TCLUG in the Linux Counter's list of LUGs, > http://lugww.counter.li.org/groups.cms?&cc=US&rc=MN > > Would someone with the authority to please correct this? Not sure what authority I have, but I actually submitted the info when you brought the subject up over on NORLUG. Last I checked, the submission is still in the Holding Area. If anyone wants different information on there, let me know (assuming they approve it). I just wanted to get the URL on the list. Jima From smac at visi.com Sat May 14 00:56:15 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Sat May 14 01:05:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Counter LUG list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <428592FF.5030006@visi.com> MMmMmmmmm Authority has he Yoda. Jima wrote: >On Fri, 13 May 2005, John Mahowald wrote: > > >>I do not see TCLUG in the Linux Counter's list of LUGs, >>http://lugww.counter.li.org/groups.cms?&cc=US&rc=MN >> >>Would someone with the authority to please correct this? >> >> > > Not sure what authority I have, but I actually submitted the info when >you brought the subject up over on NORLUG. Last I checked, the submission >is still in the Holding Area. If anyone wants different information on >there, let me know (assuming they approve it). I just wanted to get the >URL on the list. > > Jima > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From strayf at freeshell.org Sun May 15 00:06:10 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Sun May 15 00:08:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) Message-ID: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> So, I'm typing a paper in Open Office 1.1.3 on a laptop running Debian Sarge. It's a pretty blah, vanilla paper, no fancy layout or anything. I have the OOo options set to (a) autosave every five minutes and (b) always save a backup. I maximized the window, typed for a bit, decided it was better before so I un-maximized it. Then the window stopped responding, I couldn't select things with the mouse or enter anything with the keyboard; the rest of the system was fine. Blah, I thought, and killed off the process, restarted it, it asked if I wanted to resume the document I had been working on so I said yes. Great. But it's a copy of the document from like three hours ago! It's been autosaving all this time, I'd intentionally saved it a couple times manually... how the hell did it revert to something from three hours ago? And there's no backup file. Just the one document. I don't think I've ever seen anything this weird and annoying before on Linux. -Steve From brockn at gmail.com Sun May 15 00:17:05 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Sun May 15 00:18:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> Message-ID: <741dcbb805051422174808c87c@mail.gmail.com> I agree that is a big problem with OO 1.x. I use OO 2 (1.9) and it works great. Never have had that problem.. Brock On 5/15/05, Steven Cayford wrote: > So, I'm typing a paper in Open Office 1.1.3 on a laptop running Debian > Sarge. It's a pretty blah, vanilla paper, no fancy layout or anything. I > have the OOo options set to (a) autosave every five minutes and (b) always > save a backup. > > I maximized the window, typed for a bit, decided it was better before so I > un-maximized it. Then the window stopped responding, I couldn't select > things with the mouse or enter anything with the keyboard; the rest of the > system was fine. Blah, I thought, and killed off the process, restarted it, > it asked if I wanted to resume the document I had been working on so I said > yes. Great. But it's a copy of the document from like three hours ago! It's > been autosaving all this time, I'd intentionally saved it a couple times > manually... how the hell did it revert to something from three hours ago? > And there's no backup file. Just the one document. > > I don't think I've ever seen anything this weird and annoying before on > Linux. > > -Steve > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From strayf at freeshell.org Sun May 15 00:24:25 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Sun May 15 00:26:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> Message-ID: <20050515052425.GA26226@crito> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 12:06:10AM -0500, Steven Cayford wrote: > [...] > And there's no backup file. Just the one document. Update: there _was_ a backup file, after digging around I found one in ~/.openoffice/user/backup/filename.bak ... ah, relief. This paper's been enough of a pain as it is. I didn't want to redo half of it. Still doesn't explain the three hour reversion. -Steve From strayf at freeshell.org Sun May 15 01:21:06 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Sun May 15 01:22:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805051422174808c87c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> <741dcbb805051422174808c87c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050515062106.GA29164@crito> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 12:17:05AM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: > I agree that is a big problem with OO 1.x. I use OO 2 (1.9) and it > works great. Never have had that problem.. > > Brock That's good to hear. -Steve From tmarble at info9.net Sun May 15 07:19:53 2005 From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble) Date: Sun May 15 07:20:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <20050515052425.GA26226@crito> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> <20050515052425.GA26226@crito> Message-ID: <42873E69.2030107@info9.net> Steven Cayford wrote: > Still doesn't explain the three hour reversion. Did you look at Tools | Options... + Load/Save - General AutoSave every __ minutes ? HTH, --Tom From poptix at poptix.net Sun May 15 07:28:12 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Sun May 15 07:28:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> Message-ID: <20050515122812.GC22375@momentum.poptix.net> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 12:06:10AM -0500, Steven Cayford wrote: > So, I'm typing a paper in Open Office 1.1.3 on a laptop running Debian > Sarge. It's a pretty blah, vanilla paper, no fancy layout or anything. I > have the OOo options set to (a) autosave every five minutes and (b) always > save a backup. Upgrade to a distro that isn't running really old software? From erikerik at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:00:22 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sun May 15 10:02:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forwarding back to list... (Loren - make sure to hit "Reply to all") On 5/15/05, Loren H. Burlingame wrote: > > sorry, I don't have a suggestion but I would like to say this: > > does anyone else think the term "podcast" is totally stupid? Yah I agree. > I don't know anything about ipods but from all the buzz I think I > understand that "podcasting" is nothing more than simple file sharing. It's not as simple as filesharing. You can use clients like iPodder (http://ipodder.sourceforge.net/index.php) to subscribe to podcasts. In case you didn't infer this from my initial email, podcasts are sort of like RSS feeds, except they advertize audio files. So...once you subscribe to a certain podcast, your client will check for new updates periodically, and (if you elect to do so), it'll automatically download the audio and add it to your iTunes library. From there, it gets automatically dumped to your iPod. This process is by and large completely hands-off, which is very nice if you're like me and use the iPod while commuting. It's nice to have new content automatically show up on the iPod. -Erik From florin at iucha.net Sun May 15 10:19:14 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sun May 15 10:20:20 2005 Subject: Reply-to: Was: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050515151914.GH16577@iucha.net> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 10:00:22AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > Forwarding back to list... (Loren - make sure to hit "Reply to all") Reply-to-list should suffice. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050515/351676c9/attachment.pgp From erikerik at gmail.com Sun May 15 10:26:28 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sun May 15 10:28:21 2005 Subject: Reply-to: Was: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: <20050515151914.GH16577@iucha.net> References: <20050515151914.GH16577@iucha.net> Message-ID: On 5/15/05, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 10:00:22AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > > Forwarding back to list... (Loren - make sure to hit "Reply to all") > > Reply-to-list should suffice. Looks like Loren's using gmail...it's a bit funky w/ mailing lists at times. From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:16:43 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Sun May 15 12:18:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: <428210E1.203@visi.com> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> <428210E1.203@visi.com> Message-ID: <914f813c0505151016b1789aa@mail.gmail.com> Am I the only one wondering: 1) Why you have these? 2) Why they're on your thumb-drive? 3) Why you're advertising the fact that you have them? I'll assume you work for the state, but still, what's the need to carry these around? -John On 5/11/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > And now I have a database with 2 copies of the MN drivers license > database and 1 copy of the WI DL database - the compressed encrypted > backup image only takes up half of the 1GB memory key on my key chain. > > --rick > > Jerry Weihrauch wrote: > > > Mike Miller wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it > >> wouldn't be long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought > >> it was true, but it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're > >> talking about terabytes. > >> > >> Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the > >> 1960s on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing > >> everything on cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently > >> needed. So they managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to > >> buy them an HDD. It was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB > >> and I think it was as big as a washing machine. It probably seemed > >> like a lot of storage space at the time. > >> > >> I bought my first HDD in 1986. It cost me $450 and it held 30 MB > >> because it was a true 20 MB drive with an RLL controller that added > >> 50% to the volume. Back then 30 MB went a long, long way. You > >> *could* still do your work on two 360 KB 5.25" floppies (e.g., > >> WordPerfect 4.2 on one floppy and your data on the other), but it was > >> beginning to get uncomfortable. This was before I had a "high > >> density" floppy drive that held about 1.2 MB on a single 5.25" floppy > >> - that was luxurious! > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> > >> > > The first HDD I remember was at the Minnesota Department of > > Transportation about 1965, not sure of the storage size but the "drum" > > was six feet long and about two feet in diameter. The drive was in a > > cabinet with large windows so every one could watch it spin. It was > > going to hold all the drivers license, vehicle license and state crime > > records on the HDD, maybe one meg? Would say back in 1965 the state > > population was around two million, so one third of the population may > > have had drivers license and half owned a vehicle and criminal records > > one tenth? > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:19:30 2005 From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Sun May 15 12:22:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What certifications? In-Reply-To: <20050511153951.GB21049@fireopal.org> References: <20050511153951.GB21049@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <914f813c05051510195bb6a2ae@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps SANS/GIAC Security UNIX/LINUX, or a GIAC Security Essentials Certification... On 5/11/05, Scott Raun wrote: > It is my belief that in three weeks I'm going to loose my job due to a > corporate merger. > > I've been doing Helpdesk and Junior Network Admin stuff in a > predominantly Windows shop - we've got some Novell file / print > servers we're phasing out, and I've been doing some NIS user > maintenance. At home I'm running Debian testing - it's providing mail > and web services for fireopal.org and ytilaer.com. > > My mid to long-term job goal is to end up in a full-time Unix admin > position - assuming I can get some training money out of the MN > unemployment folks, what certifications should I try to get? My > interest in MC* is minimal - I don't _want_ to work with Windows > servers. What would you get first? > > -- > Scott Raun > sraun@fireopal.org > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- John T. Hoffoss From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Sun May 15 12:31:29 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Sun May 15 12:32:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/15/05, Erik Anderson wrote: > Forwarding back to list... (Loren - make sure to hit "Reply to all") doh, I always do that... thanks for forwarding this to the list for me. I don't really have any further comments other than despite your explanation I still think that "podcasting" is just another p2p file sharing service. oh, and the name makes me grind my teeth whenever I hear it. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From strayf at freeshell.org Sun May 15 14:11:17 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Sun May 15 14:12:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <42873E69.2030107@info9.net> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> <20050515052425.GA26226@crito> <42873E69.2030107@info9.net> Message-ID: <20050515191117.GA13122@crito> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 07:19:53AM -0500, Tom Marble wrote: > Steven Cayford wrote: > > Still doesn't explain the three hour reversion. > > Did you look at > Tools | Options... > + Load/Save > - General > > AutoSave every __ minutes ? Yeah, I had that set at 5 minutes. I guess it stored it in .openoffice/user/backup/ though, so it took me a while to find it. From strayf at freeshell.org Sun May 15 14:14:38 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Sun May 15 14:16:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] What the hell? (OpenOffice) In-Reply-To: <20050515122812.GC22375@momentum.poptix.net> References: <20050515050610.GA22950@crito> <20050515122812.GC22375@momentum.poptix.net> Message-ID: <20050515191438.GB13122@crito> On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 07:28:12AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 12:06:10AM -0500, Steven Cayford wrote: > > So, I'm typing a paper in Open Office 1.1.3 on a laptop running Debian > > Sarge. It's a pretty blah, vanilla paper, no fancy layout or anything. I > > have the OOo options set to (a) autosave every five minutes and (b) always > > save a backup. > > Upgrade to a distro that isn't running really old software? Well, it's not like I'm using Woody. From rwh at visi.com Sun May 15 23:48:29 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Sun May 15 23:50:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] tales of long ago (was "totally full / (can't rm)") In-Reply-To: <914f813c0505151016b1789aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> <428210E1.203@visi.com> <914f813c0505151016b1789aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4288261D.8030807@visi.com> I work for the U, but we get the DL data for use on federally funded research projects. 1. We use the database to do control selection for case-control studies among other things. We use to use it for tracing lost participants in long-term studies but that kind of data is now readily available very cheaply through commercial services and tends to be much more current. Lately I've been spending time looking at the characteristics of the individuals who restricted third party access to their drivers license and motor vehicle data to see how they compare to people selected as cases couple of our studies. 2. I keep encrypted backup copies of all of my current databases on my thumb drive. On the average we get flooded out due to plumbing problems in the building a couple of times a year. The year before last we were evacuated twice because of suspected gas leaks - turned out to be a poorly vented lab experiment in the building that was throwing off mercaptan as a by-product. And last week I was shut out of the office for a couple of days because of a radiator leak that was venting steam into my office. I sleep easier knowing I have the backups with me. Bob Bruininks wants to make us the 3rd best research university on the planet - I'd settle for an office that doesn't leak (water or gas oderant) and maybe has heat on cold days :-) 3. It was just a point of reference to the rate of technological change. It use to considered large and now its a fraction of the data on a typical music CD. I can remember using the DL database 10 years ago on a VAX and we were only able to keep 1/6th of it loaded at one time. --rick John T. Hoffoss wrote: >Am I the only one wondering: > >1) Why you have these? >2) Why they're on your thumb-drive? >3) Why you're advertising the fact that you have them? > >I'll assume you work for the state, but still, what's the need to >carry these around? > >-John > >On 5/11/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > > >>And now I have a database with 2 copies of the MN drivers license >>database and 1 copy of the WI DL database - the compressed encrypted >>backup image only takes up half of the 1GB memory key on my key chain. >> >>--rick >> >>Jerry Weihrauch wrote: >> >> >> >>>Mike Miller wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>I remember sitting in a classroom in 1987 and hearing that it >>>>wouldn't be long before we'd be talking about "gigabytes." I thought >>>>it was true, but it was still amazing to dream about it. Now we're >>>>talking about terabytes. >>>> >>>>Back in those days an older professor told me about his work in the >>>>1960s on an old computer that needed an HDD. They were storing >>>>everything on cards. Reboots took a long time but were frequently >>>>needed. So they managed to convince the university (UW-Madison) to >>>>buy them an HDD. It was 1966 and the HDD cost $65,000. It held 2 MB >>>>and I think it was as big as a washing machine. It probably seemed >>>>like a lot of storage space at the time. >>>> >>>>I bought my first HDD in 1986. It cost me $450 and it held 30 MB >>>>because it was a true 20 MB drive with an RLL controller that added >>>>50% to the volume. Back then 30 MB went a long, long way. You >>>>*could* still do your work on two 360 KB 5.25" floppies (e.g., >>>>WordPerfect 4.2 on one floppy and your data on the other), but it was >>>>beginning to get uncomfortable. This was before I had a "high >>>>density" floppy drive that held about 1.2 MB on a single 5.25" floppy >>>>- that was luxurious! >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>The first HDD I remember was at the Minnesota Department of >>>Transportation about 1965, not sure of the storage size but the "drum" >>>was six feet long and about two feet in diameter. The drive was in a >>>cabinet with large windows so every one could watch it spin. It was >>>going to hold all the drivers license, vehicle license and state crime >>>records on the HDD, maybe one meg? Would say back in 1965 the state >>>population was around two million, so one third of the population may >>>have had drivers license and half owned a vehicle and criminal records >>>one tenth? >>> >>>Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > > From patrickm at citilink.com Mon May 16 14:40:30 2005 From: patrickm at citilink.com (Patrick McCabe) Date: Mon May 16 14:40:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Running a program on another terminal In-Reply-To: <4288261D.8030807@visi.com> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> <428210E1.203@visi.com> <914f813c0505151016b1789aa@mail.gmail.com> <4288261D.8030807@visi.com> Message-ID: <4288F72E.1030902@citilink.com> I'm sure I read about this somewhere but I can't find it now. I want to run a program from /dev/tty1 and have it attach to /dev/tty2, for example. I want to launch partimaged as part of a script and have it display on a different terminal. Can someone tell me how to do this? Thanks, Patrick McCabe From slushpupie at gmail.com Mon May 16 15:02:33 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Mon May 16 15:04:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Running a program on another terminal In-Reply-To: <4288F72E.1030902@citilink.com> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> <428210E1.203@visi.com> <914f813c0505151016b1789aa@mail.gmail.com> <4288261D.8030807@visi.com> <4288F72E.1030902@citilink.com> Message-ID: On 5/16/05, Patrick McCabe wrote: > I'm sure I read about this somewhere but I can't find it now. > > I want to run a program from /dev/tty1 and have it attach to > /dev/tty2, for example. I want to launch partimaged as part of a script > and have it display on a different terminal. > > Can someone tell me how to do this? > You might have better luck with GNU screen, and not have it attach to any physical terminal. http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/ Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:52:23 2005 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Mon May 16 17:52:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9d6c8253050516155226bfa11c@mail.gmail.com> Where you able to get the ipodder client to work? I am using Debian testing and Ubuntu Hoary with problems getting the dependencies correct. I'm thinking on going back to bashpodder. -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F From erikerik at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:58:52 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon May 16 18:00:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Podcast creators? In-Reply-To: <9d6c8253050516155226bfa11c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d6c8253050516155226bfa11c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/16/05, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > Where you able to get the ipodder client to work? I am using Debian > testing and Ubuntu Hoary with problems getting the dependencies > correct. I'm actually running windows **gasp** on my desktop...so I've never tried iPodder on linux. Works great in windows, though. From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Mon May 16 20:32:03 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Mon May 16 20:32:41 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] SpamAssassin failing RBL checks Message-ID: <17f6da2505051618326ddcc496@mail.gmail.com> Guys, I'm stumped. SpamAssassin is failing RBL lookups on our new mailserver (Debian testing, Postfix, ClamAV, Amavis-new, SpamAssassin), and without it, we're getting hammered. I found 1 guy with the same problem on spamassassin.apache.org but no resolution. The facts: I can resolve dnsbl.sorbs.net as user root or amavis using dig. I can resolve it using Perl and Net::DNS. SpamAssassin apparently can't. I also tried installing 3.03 via cpan and it failed the dnsbl tests. Below are a few lines from the debug output. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Steve ------------- May 15 19:11:38 behnke.nwaalpa.org amavisd-new[7955]: Module Mail::SpamAssassin 3.000002 May 15 19:11:38 behnke.nwaalpa.org amavisd-new[7955]: Module Net::Cmd 2.26 May 15 19:11:38 behnke.nwaalpa.org amavisd-new[7955]: Module Net::DNS 0.48 May 15 19:11:38 behnke.nwaalpa.org amavisd-new[7955]: Module Net::SMTP 2.29 May 15 19:11:38 behnke.nwaalpa.org amavisd-new[7955]: Module Net::Server 0.87 blah blah debug: RBL: success for 0 of 17 queries debug: DNS: timeout for sorbs-notfirsthop,sorbs after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for sblxbl-notfirsthop,sblxbl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for ahbl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for njabl-notfirsthop,njabl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for sorbs after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for NO_DNS_FOR_FROM after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for rfci_envfrom after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for njabl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for sblxbl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for NO_DNS_FOR_FROM after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for rsl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for rsl after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for spamcop after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for bsp-untrusted after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for bsp-firsttrusted after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for dsbl-notfirsthop after 15 seconds debug: DNS: timeout for spamcop after 15 seconds debug: URIDNSBL: queries completed: 0 started: 0 debug: URIDNSBL: queries active: DNSBL=1 NS=1 at Sun May 15 19:14:03 2005 debug: waiting 2 seconds for URIDNSBL lookups to complete debug: URIDNSBL: queries completed: 0 started: 0 debug: URIDNSBL: queries active: DNSBL=1 NS=1 at Sun May 15 19:14:03 2005 debug: URIDNSBL: queries completed: 0 started: 0 debug: URIDNSBL: queries active: DNSBL=1 NS=1 at Sun May 15 19:14:04 2005 debug: SPF: lookup timed out after 5 secs. From aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com Tue May 17 09:07:09 2005 From: aintboeingaintgoing at gmail.com (Steve Swantz) Date: Tue May 17 09:08:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] SpamAssassin failing RBL checks - resolved Message-ID: <17f6da25050517070710a10a22@mail.gmail.com> I figured out my SpamAssassin RBL problem... My first entry in /etc/network/interfaces had an error in the name-server line. Everything else on the machine worked because the subsequent entries were correct. From a stand-alone perl script Net::DNS would work, but SA, which uses Net::DNS, apparently won't go to the second entry. It's a known issue when the first name-server entry is 127.0.0.1. My first entry was a different error, but had the same result. Steve From john.meier at gmail.com Tue May 17 09:25:00 2005 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Tue May 17 09:26:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] web space tool for admins Message-ID: <65293fcc05051707251abf1c8b@mail.gmail.com> I need to set up a server that will allow users to create and maintain small web sites: www.domain.com/ or .domain.com I was given a nice little compaq server - a DL360, dual 1.2 GHz with a gig of ram and about 80Gb of user drive space. I'm most familiar with Gentoo, so I thought about installing that and loading up with apache and vsftp. Each user would get an account and they could ftp to their home dir and apache wuld serve out of the home dirs.... Sound about right? Any tools of modules that anyone would recommend for the task? I tried searching sourceforge/google - but I don't even know what you'd call this type of software/tool.. thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050517/096a9652/attachment.htm From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Tue May 17 09:43:37 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Tue May 17 09:44:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] web space tool for admins In-Reply-To: <65293fcc05051707251abf1c8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc05051707251abf1c8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/17/05, John Meier wrote: > I need to set up a server that will allow users to create and maintain small > web sites: www.domain.com/ or .domain.com a lot of people use cpanel for this. though I am not sure what kind of tweaking would be necessary to get it to run on Gentoo. Also you have to buy it. a quick search of the gentoo forums brought up this howto on syscp: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=285445&highlight=syscp might want to give that a shot. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From erikerik at gmail.com Tue May 17 09:43:50 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Tue May 17 09:44:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] web space tool for admins In-Reply-To: <65293fcc05051707251abf1c8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc05051707251abf1c8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/17/05, John Meier wrote: > > I was given a nice little compaq server - a DL360, dual 1.2 GHz with a gig > of ram and about 80Gb of user drive space. I'm most familiar with Gentoo, > so I thought about installing that and loading up with apache and vsftp. > Each user would get an account and they could ftp to their home dir and > apache wuld serve out of the home dirs.... The convention is actually to have a directory called "public_html" under a user's home directory which gets shared out. This allows the user to have some "working" space outside of their DocumentRoot. I would *highly* suggest that you don't use ftp. It's an old, insecure protocol that should have died many years ago :-) Instead, you should use scp...if you're not familiar with it, it works basically the same as ftp, only it works over ssh, so you only have to have the ssh and web ports open on that box. If you're concerned about giving your users full shell access, there's a pseudo sheel called scponly that you can use to limit what commands your users have access to. It's in portage if you end up using Gentoo. > Sound about right? Any tools of modules that anyone would recommend for > the task? I tried searching sourceforge/google - but I don't even know what > you'd call this type of software/tool.. I'm not sure about specific tools to help manage this, but unless you're talking about hosting many, many sites, it's not all that hard to do by hand. Gentoo has their webapp-config tool which is supposedly able to help out with vhost configuration. I've never used it, though...as I like to do things by hand. Oh - and there *is* a non-free (beer or speech) application called cPanel that would probably work for you if you don't mind forking out some dough. I hope this answers your questions...I have quite a bit of experience webhosting on gentoo, so let me know if you have any more issues. -Erik From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue May 17 11:15:22 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Tue May 17 11:16:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace Message-ID: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> I'm trying to use the following command to create an archive of all the SPAM folders I have on my email system: find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' | xargs tar cjvf spam_20050517.tar.bz2 There are IMAP folders called SPAM, Not Spam, etc. The command works ok until it encounters something like "Not Spam" then the space trips the command up. tar: /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not: Cannot stat: No such file or directory tar: Spam: Cannot stat: No such file or directory It's trying to archive the maildir: /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not Caught But the space in the filename is causing problems. Is there an easy fix to this? Thanks, Josh From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue May 17 11:33:05 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Tue May 17 11:34:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace In-Reply-To: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> References: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> Message-ID: <20050517113304.A14505@baker.space.umn.edu> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:15:22AM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'm trying to use the following command to create an archive of all > the SPAM folders I have on my email system: > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' | xargs tar cjvf > spam_20050517.tar.bz2 > > There are IMAP folders called SPAM, Not Spam, etc. The command works > ok until it encounters something like "Not Spam" then the space trips > the command up. > > tar: /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not: Cannot > stat: No such file or directory > tar: Spam: Cannot stat: No such file or directory > > It's trying to archive the maildir: > > /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not Caught > > But the space in the filename is causing problems. Try: find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' -exec tar cjvf {} spam_20050517.tar.bz2 \; I think that you should be able to avoid using xargs. If that doesn't work, try looking at the manual page for xargs - I don't know xargs very well, but I would think that tere would be an option that would work. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From florin at iucha.net Tue May 17 11:41:43 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue May 17 11:42:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace In-Reply-To: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> References: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> Message-ID: <20050517164143.GF15527@iucha.net> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:15:22AM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'm trying to use the following command to create an archive of all > the SPAM folders I have on my email system: > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' | xargs tar cjvf > spam_20050517.tar.bz2 > > There are IMAP folders called SPAM, Not Spam, etc. The command works > ok until it encounters something like "Not Spam" then the space trips > the command up. > > tar: /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not: Cannot > stat: No such file or directory > tar: Spam: Cannot stat: No such file or directory > > Is there an easy fix to this? find $dir -print0 | xargs ... florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050517/7ac3541f/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Tue May 17 11:45:28 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue May 17 11:46:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace In-Reply-To: <20050517113304.A14505@baker.space.umn.edu> References: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> <20050517113304.A14505@baker.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20050517164528.GG15527@iucha.net> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:33:05AM -0500, Jim Crumley wrote: > Try: > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' -exec tar cjvf {} spam_20050517.tar.bz2 \; Do not try that, the first argument to tar is the output file. To stretch the example, you would do find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' -exec tar cuvf spam_20050517.tar {} \; bzip2 spam_20050517.tar But that will still be horribly inefficient, spawning one tar process for every file. florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050517/3a7ecaf6/attachment.pgp From crumley at belka.space.umn.edu Tue May 17 12:11:24 2005 From: crumley at belka.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Tue May 17 12:12:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace In-Reply-To: <20050517164528.GG15527@iucha.net> References: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> <20050517113304.A14505@baker.space.umn.edu> <20050517164528.GG15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050517121124.B14505@baker.space.umn.edu> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:45:28AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:33:05AM -0500, Jim Crumley wrote: > > Try: > > > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' -exec tar cjvf {} spam_20050517.tar.bz2 \; > > Do not try that, the first argument to tar is the output file. Ack. That's what I get for not testing my solution. > > To stretch the example, you would do > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' -exec tar cuvf spam_20050517.tar {} \; > bzip2 spam_20050517.tar This won't work either - you need "tar uvf", not "tar cuvf". -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Tue May 17 12:24:37 2005 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Tue May 17 12:26:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace In-Reply-To: <20050517164143.GF15527@iucha.net> References: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> <20050517164143.GF15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050517122437.000072e7@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:41:43 -0500 florin@iucha.net (Florin Iucha) wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 11:15:22AM -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote: > > I'm trying to use the following command to create an archive of > > all the SPAM folders I have on my email system: > > > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' | xargs tar cjvf > > spam_20050517.tar.bz2 > > > > There are IMAP folders called SPAM, Not Spam, etc. The command > > works ok until it encounters something like "Not Spam" then the > > space trips the command up. > > > > tar: /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not: > > Cannot stat: No such file or directory > > tar: Spam: Cannot stat: No such file or directory > > > > Is there an easy fix to this? > > find $dir -print0 | xargs ... Almost, one detail missing: find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' -print0 | xargs --null tar cjvf spam_20050517.tar.bz2 The --null arguement to xargs is required. The other post which had a tar being spawned for every file was very undesirable as the above command may archive close to 100k files! Thanks! Josh From rclark at lakesplus.com Tue May 17 15:54:40 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Tue May 17 15:54:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy Message-ID: I have mediaWiki installed on a Linux box behind my firewall with a local IP address. I have to view these pages by using the internal IP addy. Issue: I would like to be able to use the real world IP address all the time to view the pages, rather than the internal IP address. For some reason when I use the IP address 63.98.3.64 on a machine internal to the network ... the connection times out and it does not find anything. But, if I use the internal IP address it works just fine ... finds the machine I am redirecting a port to, etc. To further complicate it, the IP address I am assigned by my ISP is 172.16.5.47 ... an internal IP addy (high speed wireless connection). They redirect all traffic to my real world IP addy and open all ports up to my server. All works well, except for this one issue where I can not use the 63.98.3.64 IP addy to get to anything. It would be nice to use that addy, or redirect to it with a name to simplify how pages are looked up, etc. Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might have set up wrong, or what my ISP might need to do to allow me to see that IP addy? I can not even ping the addy and get a response. Thanks in advance for any input. Randy From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 17 16:42:57 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 17 16:44:54 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <741dcbb8050517144268dca32d@mail.gmail.com> You message is a bit confusing so I might be barking up the wrong tree. Is your webserver set to listen to that ipaddress? Where is the 63.98.3.64 routed to? ( maybe a problem with routing rules??) Brock On 5/17/05, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > I have mediaWiki installed on a Linux box behind my firewall with a local IP > address. I have to view these pages by using the internal IP addy. > > Issue: I would like to be able to use the real world IP address all the > time to view the pages, rather than the internal IP address. For some > reason when I use the IP address 63.98.3.64 on a machine internal to the > network ... the connection times out and it does not find anything. > > But, if I use the internal IP address it works just fine ... finds the > machine I am redirecting a port to, etc. > > To further complicate it, the IP address I am assigned by my ISP is > 172.16.5.47 ... an internal IP addy (high speed wireless connection). They > redirect all traffic to my real world IP addy and open all ports up to my > server. All works well, except for this one issue where I can not use the > 63.98.3.64 IP addy to get to anything. It would be nice to use that addy, > or redirect to it with a name to simplify how pages are looked up, etc. > > Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might have set up wrong, or what my > ISP might need to do to allow me to see that IP addy? I can not even ping > the addy and get a response. > > Thanks in advance for any input. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From josh at tcbug.org Tue May 17 19:04:04 2005 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Tue May 17 17:06:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: <741dcbb8050517144268dca32d@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb8050517144268dca32d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050518000403.GB44170@mydomain.com> Brock Noland wrote: > You message is a bit confusing so I might be barking up the wrong tree. > > Is your webserver set to listen to that ipaddress? > Where is the 63.98.3.64 routed to? ( maybe a problem with routing rules??) > > Brock > > On 5/17/05, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > > > I have mediaWiki installed on a Linux box behind my firewall with a local IP > > address. I have to view these pages by using the internal IP addy. > > > > Issue: I would like to be able to use the real world IP address all the > > time to view the pages, rather than the internal IP address. For some > > reason when I use the IP address 63.98.3.64 on a machine internal to the > > network ... the connection times out and it does not find anything. > > > > But, if I use the internal IP address it works just fine ... finds the > > machine I am redirecting a port to, etc. > > > > To further complicate it, the IP address I am assigned by my ISP is > > 172.16.5.47 ... an internal IP addy (high speed wireless connection). They > > redirect all traffic to my real world IP addy and open all ports up to my > > server. All works well, except for this one issue where I can not use the > > 63.98.3.64 IP addy to get to anything. It would be nice to use that addy, > > or redirect to it with a name to simplify how pages are looked up, etc. > > > > Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might have set up wrong, or what my > > ISP might need to do to allow me to see that IP addy? I can not even ping > > the addy and get a response. > > > > Thanks in advance for any input. > > > > Randy > > If all you are looking for is a way to connect to your internal site using a host name just dream something up and put it in /etc/hosts with your 10.x.x.x IP -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From seg at haxxed.com Tue May 17 17:36:28 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Tue May 17 17:38:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Running a program on another terminal In-Reply-To: <4288F72E.1030902@citilink.com> References: <42812F30.6090000@visi.com> <4281D1E1.7070800@comcast.net> <428210E1.203@visi.com> <914f813c0505151016b1789aa@mail.gmail.com> <4288261D.8030807@visi.com> <4288F72E.1030902@citilink.com> Message-ID: <1116369390.31561.4.camel@bigtime.booze> On Mon, 2005-05-16 at 14:40 -0500, Patrick McCabe wrote: > I'm sure I read about this somewhere but I can't find it now. > > I want to run a program from /dev/tty1 and have it attach to > /dev/tty2, for example. I want to launch partimaged as part of a script > and have it display on a different terminal. > > Can someone tell me how to do this? You want "openvt". Formerly called "open". Now part of the "kbd" package in Fedora. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050517/2b40f9cd/attachment.pgp From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 17 20:29:59 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 17 20:30:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? Message-ID: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> Hello all! I have a script which needs the extension of a file. The problem I am having is how do I get the chars at the end of a filename after the LAST period? For example: brock@brockwork backups $ ls -1 another.tar.gz mydocs-backup-2005-05-17.tgz brock@brockwork backups $ ls | awk -F. '{ print $2}' tar tgz brock@brockwork backups $ Any ideas? From strayf at freeshell.org Tue May 17 21:02:15 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Tue May 17 21:02:55 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? In-Reply-To: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050518020215.GA16373@crito> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 08:29:59PM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: > I have a script which needs the extension of a file. The problem I am > having is how do I get the chars at the end of a filename after the > LAST period? > [...] > Any ideas? How about... ls | perl -p -e 's/^.*\.(.*)$/$1/' except if there's no extension. -Steve From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 17 21:37:29 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 17 21:38:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? In-Reply-To: <20050518020215.GA16373@crito> References: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> <20050518020215.GA16373@crito> Message-ID: <741dcbb805051719375e2b4a6a@mail.gmail.com> That works GREAT!!! Thanks a ton! Is there a command line perl resource that you or anyone else knows of? Brock On 5/17/05, Steven Cayford wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 08:29:59PM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: > > I have a script which needs the extension of a file. The problem I am > > having is how do I get the chars at the end of a filename after the > > LAST period? > > [...] > > Any ideas? > > How about... > > ls | perl -p -e 's/^.*\.(.*)$/$1/' > > except if there's no extension. > > -Steve > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nate at refried.org Tue May 17 21:39:41 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Tue May 17 21:44:57 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? In-Reply-To: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050518023941.GA28304@refried.org> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 08:29:59PM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: > I have a script which needs the extension of a file. The problem I am > having is how do I get the chars at the end of a filename after the > LAST period? > > brock@brockwork backups $ ls | awk -F. '{ print $2}' I think you want '{print $NF}' Nate From smac at visi.com Tue May 17 21:40:00 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 17 21:50:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <428AAB00.8060503@visi.com> Just so I know I'm looking at this right. the internal machine is addressed as 63.98.3.64 you can get to it using the above address the external address assigned by your ISP 172.16.5.47 you can NOT get to it using this address I can't ping this address and the address times out using Firefox trace route dies at c6400-nrp-3.border.mpls.visi.com So this address is not associated with a web resource in DNS that I can tell. Is the internal DNS setup properly for this specific machine? do you have an internal DNS server running? Is http.config setup properly? Are you accessing the Linux machine with an M$ machine? if so FQDN (fully qualified domain name) Can you get to the machine using the FQDN? what ever it is? If this is an M$ machine you are attempting to access the web server from Put the name and IP address in the Host fine in c:\"systemroot"\system32\drivers\etc (XP or 2K) systemroot is the windows directory Sam. Randy Clarksean wrote: >I have mediaWiki installed on a Linux box behind my firewall with a local IP >address. I have to view these pages by using the internal IP addy. > >Issue: I would like to be able to use the real world IP address all the >time to view the pages, rather than the internal IP address. For some >reason when I use the IP address 63.98.3.64 on a machine internal to the >network ... the connection times out and it does not find anything. > >But, if I use the internal IP address it works just fine ... finds the >machine I am redirecting a port to, etc. > >To further complicate it, the IP address I am assigned by my ISP is >172.16.5.47 ... an internal IP addy (high speed wireless connection). They >redirect all traffic to my real world IP addy and open all ports up to my >server. All works well, except for this one issue where I can not use the >63.98.3.64 IP addy to get to anything. It would be nice to use that addy, >or redirect to it with a name to simplify how pages are looked up, etc. > >Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might have set up wrong, or what my >ISP might need to do to allow me to see that IP addy? I can not even ping >the addy and get a response. > >Thanks in advance for any input. > >Randy > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From strayf at freeshell.org Tue May 17 21:55:48 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Tue May 17 21:56:26 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805051719375e2b4a6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> <20050518020215.GA16373@crito> <741dcbb805051719375e2b4a6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050518025548.GE21394@crito> On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 09:37:29PM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: > That works GREAT!!! > > Thanks a ton! > > Is there a command line perl resource that you or anyone else knows of? I'm glad it works. http://perldoc.perl.org/perl.html then look for the perlrun link or just "man perlrun". -Steve From gsker at comcast.net Tue May 17 22:20:39 2005 From: gsker at comcast.net (Gerry) Date: Tue May 17 22:20:56 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? In-Reply-To: <20050518023941.GA28304@refried.org> References: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> <20050518023941.GA28304@refried.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Nate Straz wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 08:29:59PM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: >> I have a script which needs the extension of a file. The problem I am >> having is how do I get the chars at the end of a filename after the >> LAST period? >> >> brock@brockwork backups $ ls | awk -F. '{ print $2}' > > I think you want '{print $NF}' > > Nate Or if you use zsh for a shell: for a in * ; echo $a:e :-) -- Gerry Skerbitz gsker@comcast.net From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed May 18 00:59:06 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed May 18 01:00:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] How to get a file extension, for sure, with awk or something else? In-Reply-To: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb8050517182972f9038b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > I have a script which needs the extension of a file. The problem I am > having is how do I get the chars at the end of a filename after the LAST > period? > > For example: > > brock@brockwork backups $ ls -1 > another.tar.gz > mydocs-backup-2005-05-17.tgz > brock@brockwork backups $ ls | awk -F. '{ print $2}' > tar > tgz You are taking what follows the the first period and preceeds the second one. In awk "NF" means "number of fields" so "$NF" always means the last field. So this will do it: ls | awk -F. '{print $NF}' As suggested, this does work, but it is longer and harder to remember: ls | perl -p -e 's/^.*\.(.*)$/$1/' It can be shortened to this (putting -p and -e together): ls | perl -pe 's/^.*\.(.*)$/$1/' Mike From adam at whee.org Wed May 18 07:34:06 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed May 18 07:49:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: <428AAB00.8060503@visi.com> References: <428AAB00.8060503@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > the external address assigned by your ISP 172.16.5.47 This is RFC 1918 space, the ISP appears to be doing NAT. > you can NOT get to it using this address > I can't ping this address and the address times out using Firefox > trace route dies at c6400-nrp-3.border.mpls.visi.com This is probably your first hop through VISI's network that speaks BGP. 172.16/12 won't appear in the global routing table, so it (correctly) drops your packets on the floor. ON THE FLOOR MAN!!! :) What I gathered from the original post is that he has a public IP of 63.something, which is being NAT'd to 172.16.something by the ISP. He can't get to 63.something internally, since that's a public IP somewhere on his ISP's network, so it must route outside of his net. Then it gets to the ISP's network and gets dropped (whatever device won't route packet back the same interface they came in, or something similar). Without a diagram and more details, I would have to agree with Josh and say that if all he's trying to accomplish is to have an easy hostname to use to get to it, a static entry in hosts for his internal machines sounds like the best option. If this doesn't work, I've got another option brewing in the back of my mind, but Randy would have to have a router on his network that he controls, and could add an IP or route to. From rclark at lakesplus.com Wed May 18 08:27:13 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Wed May 18 08:27:05 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: <428AAB00.8060503@visi.com> Message-ID: Maybe a picture below helps explain it better. ---------------- + 63.98.3.64 + + outside FW + ---------------- | --+ ISP firewall +-- | ------------------------ + 172.16.5.47 + + ISP IP - my system + + my firewall (FW) + + (Linux box) + + 192.168.1.1 + + int. IP - my server + ------------------------ | -------------------------- -------------------------- + 192.168.1.19 +----------+ 192.168.1.2 + + Linux - apache, etc. + + MS machine + -------------------------- + sees all int. machines + -------------------------- I should have sent this initially - sorry about that. The MS machine(s) are all connected via hub to the server, etc. I just did not mess with putting a line from MS to my server. I have put the 63.98.3.64 into my Hosts and Lmhosts files on the windows machine. I have put it in two ways ... one with a name (I can ping "name" and it tries to find 63.98.3.64) ... plus one with IP addy of the internal machine 192.168.1.19 ... to no avail ... which probably means I do not know what I am doing and set it up wrong. I do not have DNS running on my server - do not want to hassle with it, etc. I just use the ISPs DNS. Does this shed more light on the subject? -----Original Message----- From: Sam MacDonald [mailto:smac@visi.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:40 PM To: Randy Clarksean Cc: tclug Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy Just so I know I'm looking at this right. the internal machine is addressed as 63.98.3.64 you can get to it using the above address the external address assigned by your ISP 172.16.5.47 you can NOT get to it using this address I can't ping this address and the address times out using Firefox trace route dies at c6400-nrp-3.border.mpls.visi.com So this address is not associated with a web resource in DNS that I can tell. Is the internal DNS setup properly for this specific machine? do you have an internal DNS server running? Is http.config setup properly? Are you accessing the Linux machine with an M$ machine? if so FQDN (fully qualified domain name) Can you get to the machine using the FQDN? what ever it is? If this is an M$ machine you are attempting to access the web server from Put the name and IP address in the Host fine in c:\"systemroot"\system32\drivers\etc (XP or 2K) systemroot is the windows directory Sam. Randy Clarksean wrote: >I have mediaWiki installed on a Linux box behind my firewall with a local IP >address. I have to view these pages by using the internal IP addy. > >Issue: I would like to be able to use the real world IP address all the >time to view the pages, rather than the internal IP address. For some >reason when I use the IP address 63.98.3.64 on a machine internal to the >network ... the connection times out and it does not find anything. > >But, if I use the internal IP address it works just fine ... finds the >machine I am redirecting a port to, etc. > >To further complicate it, the IP address I am assigned by my ISP is >172.16.5.47 ... an internal IP addy (high speed wireless connection). They >redirect all traffic to my real world IP addy and open all ports up to my >server. All works well, except for this one issue where I can not use the >63.98.3.64 IP addy to get to anything. It would be nice to use that addy, >or redirect to it with a name to simplify how pages are looked up, etc. > >Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might have set up wrong, or what my >ISP might need to do to allow me to see that IP addy? I can not even ping >the addy and get a response. > >Thanks in advance for any input. > >Randy > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From cww.list at gmail.com Wed May 18 08:46:08 2005 From: cww.list at gmail.com (Chris Ward) Date: Wed May 18 08:47:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] X11 Config error (Gentoo) In-Reply-To: <20050506182130079b2f9459@mail.smumn.edu> References: <20050506182130079b2f9459@mail.smumn.edu> Message-ID: <468f8fda05051806467eec13b7@mail.gmail.com> On 5/6/05, David Alanis wrote: > it kinda seemed strange that at the time of compiling the 2.6.11 kernel it does have the >option to enable support for nvidia chips. Kinda late, sorry, but The nv driver that you have there comes from the Xorg project. There is no video driver in the kernel for nvidia. They have a binary driver that you can install if you want accelerated 3D stuff. Chris --<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>--<>-- Chris Ward (veggie2u) http://www.cyberward.net/blog/ From adam at whee.org Wed May 18 08:35:02 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed May 18 08:51:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 May 2005, Randy Clarksean wrote: > Maybe a picture below helps explain it better. > > ---------------- > + 63.98.3.64 + > + outside FW + > ---------------- > | > --+ ISP firewall +-- > | > ------------------------ > + 172.16.5.47 + > + ISP IP - my system + > + my firewall (FW) + > + (Linux box) + > + 192.168.1.1 + > + int. IP - my server + > ------------------------ > | > -------------------------- -------------------------- > + 192.168.1.19 +----------+ 192.168.1.2 + > + Linux - apache, etc. + + MS machine + > -------------------------- + sees all int. machines + > -------------------------- Pretty. I bow to your mad ASCII skillz! ;) > I have put the 63.98.3.64 into my Hosts and Lmhosts files on the windows Other way - you want to put in hosts: 192.168.1.19 www.yourserver.com on all of the internal machines that you want this to work for. From john.meier at gmail.com Wed May 18 09:06:35 2005 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Wed May 18 09:07:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65293fcc05051807066f94bd4@mail.gmail.com> On 5/17/05, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > > I have mediaWiki installed on a Linux box behind my firewall with a local > IP > address. I have to view these pages by using the internal IP addy. > > Issue: I would like to be able to use the real world IP address all the > time to view the pages, rather than the internal IP address. For some > reason when I use the IP address 63.98.3.64 on a > machine internal to the > network ... the connection times out and it does not find anything. Could it be that the static Public to Private translation on the external interface (one of the firewalls or the ISP firewall), can only be used as a destination in an External to Internal policy? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050518/fefd6bcb/attachment.html From rclark at lakesplus.com Wed May 18 09:10:52 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Wed May 18 09:11:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ahhh ... I had created a ozonez.com redirect addy for it ... I put that in my hosts table on the MS machine ... and it works fine now (see below) 192.168.1.19 www.mysite.ozonez.com (not the real addy) But, I tried putting in the IP addy in the hosts table like shown below and it did not work. 192.168.1.19 63.98.3.64:8080 Does the hosts table not like to redirect for IP addies rather than names? Just curious so I can learn why it works the way it does. Randy thanks for all the input -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Adam Maloney Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 8:35 AM To: tclug Subject: RE: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy On Wed, 18 May 2005, Randy Clarksean wrote: > Maybe a picture below helps explain it better. > > ---------------- > + 63.98.3.64 + > + outside FW + > ---------------- > | > --+ ISP firewall +-- > | > ------------------------ > + 172.16.5.47 + > + ISP IP - my system + > + my firewall (FW) + > + (Linux box) + > + 192.168.1.1 + > + int. IP - my server + > ------------------------ > | > -------------------------- -------------------------- > + 192.168.1.19 +----------+ 192.168.1.2 + > + Linux - apache, etc. + + MS machine + > -------------------------- + sees all int. machines + > -------------------------- Pretty. I bow to your mad ASCII skillz! ;) > I have put the 63.98.3.64 into my Hosts and Lmhosts files on the windows Other way - you want to put in hosts: 192.168.1.19 www.yourserver.com on all of the internal machines that you want this to work for. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam at whee.org Wed May 18 08:59:00 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed May 18 09:17:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local redirect of IP addy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 May 2005, Randy Clarksean wrote: > But, I tried putting in the IP addy in the hosts table like shown below and > it did not work. > > 192.168.1.19 63.98.3.64:8080 > > Does the hosts table not like to redirect for IP addies rather than names? > Just curious so I can learn why it works the way it does. It just maps IP's to names and vice-versa. You can't map IP to IP, and you can't specify a port like that. It's just poor man's DNS... From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed May 18 14:27:11 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed May 18 14:29:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200505181927.j4IJRBx02249@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: A monitor a monitor CRT or LCD, preferably able to run at 1600x1200, cheeper the better, and the smaller(inches) the better as well anything over 1024x768 will be looked at though, thanks Seller Email address: andrew dot frink at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From pt-becker at comcast.net Wed May 18 18:49:01 2005 From: pt-becker at comcast.net (ptbecker) Date: Wed May 18 18:49:09 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question Message-ID: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Well I'm not a total newbie as I had Suse on this machine for a few years and now moved to ubuntu. I'm pleasantly surprised with ubuntu even though I'm not hip with gnome. So here is my question - when I run synaptic to install packages it asks for the hoary disk to be inserted in the cdrom. I insert disk and it shows up on the desktop but synaptic behaves like its not inserted and fails to install my favorite programs. How do I get synaptic to install packages? Yes I know, I'm probably missing something simple. Thanks - pt From bhurt at spnz.org Wed May 18 19:08:18 2005 From: bhurt at spnz.org (Brian Hurt) Date: Wed May 18 19:09:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] find and xargs with whitespace In-Reply-To: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> References: <20050517111522.00004bc3@mn02ws1trutwij.na.wkglobal.com> Message-ID: Two peices of advice: 1) don't use spaces in filenames 2) add | sed -e "s/^\(.*\)$/\'\\1\'/" | to the pipeline just before the xargs. On Tue, 17 May 2005, Josh Trutwin wrote: > I'm trying to use the following command to create an archive of all > the SPAM folders I have on my email system: > > find /usr/local/sites/ -iname '.SPAM*' | xargs tar cjvf > spam_20050517.tar.bz2 > > There are IMAP folders called SPAM, Not Spam, etc. The command works > ok until it encounters something like "Not Spam" then the space trips > the command up. > > tar: /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not: Cannot > stat: No such file or directory > tar: Spam: Cannot stat: No such file or directory > > It's trying to archive the maildir: > > /usr/local/sites/www.davidtrutwin.com/users/dlt/.spam.Not Caught > > But the space in the filename is causing problems. > > Is there an easy fix to this? > > Thanks, > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From justin at jv.dyns.cx Wed May 18 22:23:13 2005 From: justin at jv.dyns.cx (justin@jv.dyns.cx) Date: Wed May 18 22:25:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] /var/mail and /var/spool/mail script Message-ID: <4866.10.10.10.125.1116472993.squirrel@_default_> Could someone please help me out and let me know a script or two that will change all files eg. /var/mail/user.file so the owner and group are the same as the file name. Hope this is enough info. Thanks JV From klinej at msoe.edu Wed May 18 22:41:52 2005 From: klinej at msoe.edu (Jonathan Kline) Date: Wed May 18 22:43:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] /var/mail and /var/spool/mail script In-Reply-To: <4866.10.10.10.125.1116472993.squirrel@_default_> References: <4866.10.10.10.125.1116472993.squirrel@_default_> Message-ID: <428C0B00.1080504@msoe.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 using bash: for file in `ls /var/mail/*.file` do $owner = `awk -F'.' '{print $1}'` chown $owner:$owner $file done ~J I'm sure someone else will do this as a 1 liner in poerl, actually I can thing of at least 1 way to do it using regex as well justin@jv.dyns.cx wrote: > Could someone please help me out and let me know a script or two that will > change all files eg. /var/mail/user.file so the owner and group are the > same as the file name. Hope this is enough info. Thanks > > JV > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > - -- Jonathan Kline Milwaukee School of Engineering -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCjAsAQkF4UQaOvSoRAnq8AKDLmSb/zSGeHBsz59jz4uid+H7YcACgnxi4 mOElbukP6oE5UpYi5Hi8fw4= =35Pw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From christophermsmith at gmail.com Wed May 18 22:42:40 2005 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Wed May 18 22:43:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] /var/mail and /var/spool/mail script In-Reply-To: <4866.10.10.10.125.1116472993.squirrel@_default_> Message-ID: <428c0b36.100980c0.2b45.6299@mx.gmail.com> Something like... #!/bin/bash for user in `dir /var/mail/users` ; do echo changing owner for user: $user chown -R $user. /var/mail/users/$user Done Chris Smith -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of justin@jv.dyns.cx Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:23 PM To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] /var/mail and /var/spool/mail script Could someone please help me out and let me know a script or two that will change all files eg. /var/mail/user.file so the owner and group are the same as the file name. Hope this is enough info. Thanks JV _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ston0235 at umn.edu Thu May 19 00:37:17 2005 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Thu May 19 00:37:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050519003717.77837b7b.ston0235@umn.edu> On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:49:01 -0500 ptbecker wrote: > Hi > Well I'm not a total newbie as I had Suse on this machine for a few > years and now moved to ubuntu. I'm pleasantly surprised with ubuntu > even though I'm not hip with gnome. So here is my question - when I > run synaptic to install packages it asks for the hoary disk to be > inserted in the cdrom. I insert disk and it shows up on the desktop > but synaptic behaves like its not inserted and fails to install my > favorite programs. How do I get synaptic to install packages? Yes I > know, I'm probably missing something simple. > Thanks - pt I'm not sure why synaptic isn't recognizing the CD, but unless you lack an internet connection, there isn't much reason to install from the CD at all. You will get more current software with more convenience if you install from the 'net. To configure synaptic to pull packages from the 'net instead of from the CD, edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list The first line will be something like: deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.04 _Hoary... Comment that line out, and uncomment the next line, which will be something like: deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted Then run an apt-get update, and synaptic should pull packages from the Ubuntu servers instead of from the CD. Ian From erikerik at gmail.com Thu May 19 07:02:00 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Thu May 19 07:03:17 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5/18/05, ptbecker wrote: > Hi > Well I'm not a total newbie as I had Suse on this machine for a few > years and now moved to ubuntu. I'm pleasantly surprised with ubuntu even > though I'm not hip with gnome. I haven't used this, but there *is* a project out there called kubuntu (http://www.kubuntu.org/) that, from what I can tell, is ubuntu w/ a KDE GUI. You may want to try that if you're not happy w/ gnome. -Erik From jkjones at tcq.net Thu May 19 09:02:41 2005 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Thu May 19 09:03:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <428C9C81.4050803@tcq.net> Erik Anderson wrote: >On 5/18/05, ptbecker wrote: > > >>Hi >>Well I'm not a total newbie as I had Suse on this machine for a few >>years and now moved to ubuntu. I'm pleasantly surprised with ubuntu even >>though I'm not hip with gnome. >> >> > >I haven't used this, but there *is* a project out there called kubuntu >(http://www.kubuntu.org/) that, from what I can tell, is ubuntu w/ a >KDE GUI. You may want to try that if you're not happy w/ gnome. > >-Erik > > > Here are some of my experiences with Ubuntu, for what they're worth. I have installed both the KDE and Gnome varieties: Ubuntu Warty and Hoary (Gnome), and Kubuntu Hoary. Also, on this system I'm using now, I started with the Gnome, then changed to KDE by installing the kde and kde-desktop packages. I've been pleased with all of the installations; for the most part everything "just works", though there are a few annoying bugs (as there are in any distribution I have seen). I had some of the same problems you did with synaptic calling for the cdrom. I don't know exactly what I did to solve the problem -- it just went away. I think the trick is to be sure your internet connection is working when you do the install. Then synaptic will be configured during the initial set-up and you don't have to fuss with finding the base repositories. You do have to go back and add the "Universe" repositories if you want the extended set of packages, but that can be done after the rest of the install is complete. I like to run Knoppix first on any system before I start an install -- Knoppix is pretty good at figuring out your hardware, and if networks, drives, etc work with Knoppix then chances are good the other install will go smoothly. But if Knoppix has a problem, prepare for headaches and googling for hints. I've heard of a live CD for Ubuntu, but I've never used it. KDE and Gnome each have their pros and cons; I personally prefer KDE. But I have run into a couple of real annoying bugs with the KDE install (though they may be fixed by now, I found work-arounds). One, Ubuntu uses su for administration; you never log in as root. But KDE would not allow me to go to "administrator mode" in the Control Center. I found one fix, which is: edit /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc, and change AllowRootLogin to =true. The other major bug is described here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10035 Briefly, synaptic has a dependency conflict with a kdedata-libs package. Attempts to fix it will sometimes remove all your icons and menus from the KDE desktop and panel. The fix found in the bug report worked for me: Same problem on two Kubuntu PCs. I worked around the problem with: dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb apt-get -f install Another minor thing is that Kubuntu installs "kynaptic" by default, instead of synaptic. kynaptic seems to be missing some of synaptic's functions (or maybe they're just different and I can't see them). Anyway, I just installed synaptic, and use that. There are a few differences between my straight Kubuntu installation and the Ubuntu (gnome) with KDE added. The most significant, to me, is the login manager. With my laptop here (gnome>KDE) I have to log out of KDE, then wait to get back to the gnome logout in order to shut down. With the pure KDE system, shutting down is only one step. I could probably fix this, but I haven't yet figured out how. Anyway, good luck with Ubuntu. I think you'll like it. Kraig From rwh at visi.com Thu May 19 09:56:46 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Thu May 19 09:57:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <428C9C81.4050803@tcq.net> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <428C9C81.4050803@tcq.net> Message-ID: <428CA92E.3010700@visi.com> Kraig Jones wrote: > [snip ...] > Anyway, good luck with Ubuntu. I think you'll like it. > > Kraig > > > Ditto on Ubuntu. I've been running FC3 on my stuff because I'm working through the SELinux setup to secure a server. It turns out that FC3 is really slow running under VMWare on my machine at work and sort of dragged on my laptop at home. So just for yucks I downloaded Ubuntu and loaded it into a new VM and was thoroughly impressed. So then I tried it on the laptop at home and everything just works. This is a distribution I'd be will to support for friends and relatives :-) Last weekend I hit BB and CompUSA and picked up a couple of cheap 802.11g cards with the hopes that one of them would have some type of support. I figured I'd have to recompile a kernel, add a bunch of patches, etc. to get things to work. It turns out Ubuntu installs with ndiswrapper so it took 5 minutes (most of which was spent trying to find where I'd put paper copy of the WEP key) and its been up and running fine ever since. I've since been told that if the card was installed when I did the original install it would have been detected and set up automatically. BTW, if anyone is looking for cheap 54Mbps wireless stuff, BB is selling the D-Link 802.11g AP with a PC card for $20 after rebate. CompUSA has the Hawking in PCI, USB or PC card for $10 after rebate. I haven't tried the Hawking but the D-Link seems OK and is using the Atheros chip set. I think the Hawking is a Prism 54 but I have no idea if it is the old version that will work on Linux or the new version that offloads a bulk of the functionality into the drivers and won't work. --rick From smac at visi.com Thu May 19 11:00:07 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu May 19 11:11:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <428CA92E.3010700@visi.com> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <428C9C81.4050803@tcq.net> <428CA92E.3010700@visi.com> Message-ID: <428CB807.3070105@visi.com> Ubutu has the NDIS wrapper within the install???? I'm going to try my Linksys after I get the bits on my test machine. Sam. Richard Hoffbeck wrote: >Kraig Jones wrote: > > > >>[snip ...] >> >> > > > > >>Anyway, good luck with Ubuntu. I think you'll like it. >> >>Kraig >> >> >> >> >> >Ditto on Ubuntu. I've been running FC3 on my stuff because I'm working >through the SELinux setup to secure a server. It turns out that FC3 is >really slow running under VMWare on my machine at work and sort of >dragged on my laptop at home. So just for yucks I downloaded Ubuntu and >loaded it into a new VM and was thoroughly impressed. So then I tried it >on the laptop at home and everything just works. This is a distribution >I'd be will to support for friends and relatives :-) > >Last weekend I hit BB and CompUSA and picked up a couple of cheap >802.11g cards with the hopes that one of them would have some type of >support. I figured I'd have to recompile a kernel, add a bunch of >patches, etc. to get things to work. It turns out Ubuntu installs with >ndiswrapper so it took 5 minutes (most of which was spent trying to find >where I'd put paper copy of the WEP key) and its been up and running >fine ever since. I've since been told that if the card was installed >when I did the original install it would have been detected and set up >automatically. > >BTW, if anyone is looking for cheap 54Mbps wireless stuff, BB is selling >the D-Link 802.11g AP with a PC card for $20 after rebate. CompUSA has >the Hawking in PCI, USB or PC card for $10 after rebate. I haven't tried >the Hawking but the D-Link seems OK and is using the Atheros chip set. I >think the Hawking is a Prism 54 but I have no idea if it is the old >version that will work on Linux or the new version that offloads a bulk >of the functionality into the drivers and won't work. > >--rick > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From ces.fci at gmail.com Thu May 19 12:19:08 2005 From: ces.fci at gmail.com (fci) Date: Thu May 19 12:19:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] jobs in the Twin Cities ? and... how is it you got involved in Linux? Message-ID: This is probably the wrong place to ask.. but does anyone know of any jobs in the area (it doesn't have to be computer related, I'm just looking for a wage-type job or something that will hold my interest)? (email me if you know of any decent places, I am currently a web developer but it bores me out of my mind, I currently live in Shoreview)... and.. so my post isn't a total loss, I will make the topic now more linux related(hopefully this sort of question hasn't been asked before)... how is it you got involved in Linux? for me, I was doing various server stuff over SSH.. it helped me gain some rather basic skills so then I eventually installed a distro for permanent desktop usage. c From rwh at visi.com Thu May 19 12:22:15 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Thu May 19 12:23:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <428CB807.3070105@visi.com> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <428C9C81.4050803@tcq.net> <428CA92E.3010700@visi.com> <428CB807.3070105@visi.com> Message-ID: <428CCB47.4090201@visi.com> I think I had to use the package manager to install the ndiswrapper-utils but the necessary kernel modules were there. I would imagine that the install would have added the utilities if the card had needed them but I had my old Orinco card inserted at the time. --rick Sam MacDonald wrote: > Ubutu has the NDIS wrapper within the install???? > > I'm going to try my Linksys after I get the bits on my test machine. > > Sam. > > Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > >> Kraig Jones wrote: >> >> >> >>> [snip ...] >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Anyway, good luck with Ubuntu. I think you'll like it. >>> >>> Kraig >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Ditto on Ubuntu. I've been running FC3 on my stuff because I'm working >> through the SELinux setup to secure a server. It turns out that FC3 is >> really slow running under VMWare on my machine at work and sort of >> dragged on my laptop at home. So just for yucks I downloaded Ubuntu and >> loaded it into a new VM and was thoroughly impressed. So then I tried it >> on the laptop at home and everything just works. This is a distribution >> I'd be will to support for friends and relatives :-) >> >> Last weekend I hit BB and CompUSA and picked up a couple of cheap >> 802.11g cards with the hopes that one of them would have some type of >> support. I figured I'd have to recompile a kernel, add a bunch of >> patches, etc. to get things to work. It turns out Ubuntu installs with >> ndiswrapper so it took 5 minutes (most of which was spent trying to find >> where I'd put paper copy of the WEP key) and its been up and running >> fine ever since. I've since been told that if the card was installed >> when I did the original install it would have been detected and set up >> automatically. >> >> BTW, if anyone is looking for cheap 54Mbps wireless stuff, BB is selling >> the D-Link 802.11g AP with a PC card for $20 after rebate. CompUSA has >> the Hawking in PCI, USB or PC card for $10 after rebate. I haven't tried >> the Hawking but the D-Link seems OK and is using the Atheros chip set. I >> think the Hawking is a Prism 54 but I have no idea if it is the old >> version that will work on Linux or the new version that offloads a bulk >> of the functionality into the drivers and won't work. >> >> --rick >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From j_wrocky at comcast.net Thu May 19 12:51:19 2005 From: j_wrocky at comcast.net (Jerry Weihrauch) Date: Thu May 19 12:53:20 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] jobs in the Twin Cities ? and... how is it you got involved in Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <428CD217.8060309@comcast.net> fci wrote: >This is probably the wrong place to ask.. but does anyone know of any >jobs in the area (it doesn't have to be computer related, I'm just >looking for a wage-type job or something that will hold my interest)? >(email me if you know of any decent places, I am currently a web >developer but it bores me out of my mind, I currently live in >Shoreview)... > >and.. so my post isn't a total loss, I will make the topic now more >linux related(hopefully this sort of question hasn't been asked >before)... > >how is it you got involved in Linux? > >for me, I was doing various server stuff over SSH.. it helped me gain >some rather basic skills so then I eventually installed a distro for >permanent desktop usage. > >c > > > c Have you tried the engineering contract houses? Sometimes you can find a pretty good assignment with them. I had a contract job though Areotek, the office was out in Shoreview north of the Deluxe Check campus. I was on assignment as an engineering lab technician, on contract to United Defense on the Army Crusader project which was dropped by the Bush administration, project end, job ended, took my early SS and out of the job rat race. Linux, Thought it might be interesting to learn something new, it has been a real learning curve. I never was into programing or script witting, but learning things as I go along. So far Mepis has done pretty well for my Linux experience, have tried a lot of the distros by downloading and burning CD's from the iso images, a good way to "play" with different distros. Retired and enjoy my time away from the rat race, also have a ham ticket and use a few ham programs on the Linux distros. I operate mostly 20 meter PSK31, using KPSK, gMFSK and linpsk, all seem to be pretty close in the GUI and work good, gMFSK has a few more "modes" besides PSK. Jerry From there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com Thu May 19 12:54:33 2005 From: there.can.be.only.two.apparently at gmail.com (Loren H. Burlingame) Date: Thu May 19 12:56:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] jobs in the Twin Cities ? and... how is it you got involved in Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/19/05, fci wrote: > This is probably the wrong place to ask.. but does anyone know of any > jobs in the area (it doesn't have to be computer related, I'm just > looking for a wage-type job or something that will hold my interest)? > (email me if you know of any decent places, I am currently a web > developer but it bores me out of my mind, I currently live in > Shoreview)... Sorry, can't help you there. > > how is it you got involved in Linux? > One of the developers at an old job of mine wouldn't ever shut up about it and when he gave me a copy of slackware 3.5 I decided I would learn as much as I could so I could at least hold a conversation with him. -- Loren H. Burlingame GPG Key ID: 0x112DCF4F "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." -William Shatner (a.k.a. Buck Murdock) From smac at visi.com Thu May 19 13:30:57 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu May 19 13:41:22 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] jobs in the Twin Cities ? and... how is it you got involved in Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <428CDB61.4070308@visi.com> I'm in the middle of a job search myself and trying to keep it as local as possible,western suburbs. It all depends on what "You" want to do it's out there. How I got in to Linux? I worked for a company as a programmer many years ago, COBOL on UNIX & NCR computers. While working that job I bought an OS called Coherent a UNIX look a like, ran that for a long time with DOS V3.3 on a 286/16 I could dance in vi back then. The Coherent code didn't want to run properly on my shiny new Gateway 2000 486/33e. I sold the 286 with DOS on it and kept the Coherent package, I still have it. The Mark Williams Company went out of business (they made Coherent). Guess what, Linux would run on a 486! I didn't run in to it until Red Hat 4.x so it had been around a while. I didn't even run X windows, just Linux connected to a network as a Samba server. Then there were 2 Linux boxes, I now have 9 computers 4 with Linux the rest with M$ OS the rest of the world needs to dump so I don't have to support it any more. I'm going to install Ubuntu on a Compaq 500e laptop this afternoon just to see if my Linksys wireless will work. Sam. fci wrote: >This is probably the wrong place to ask.. but does anyone know of any >jobs in the area (it doesn't have to be computer related, I'm just >looking for a wage-type job or something that will hold my interest)? >(email me if you know of any decent places, I am currently a web >developer but it bores me out of my mind, I currently live in >Shoreview)... > >and.. so my post isn't a total loss, I will make the topic now more >linux related(hopefully this sort of question hasn't been asked >before)... > >how is it you got involved in Linux? > >for me, I was doing various server stuff over SSH.. it helped me gain >some rather basic skills so then I eventually installed a distro for >permanent desktop usage. > >c > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From pt-becker at comcast.net Thu May 19 19:00:14 2005 From: pt-becker at comcast.net (ptbecker) Date: Thu May 19 19:01:23 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <20050519003717.77837b7b.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050519003717.77837b7b.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1116547214.6924.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 00:37 -0500, Ian Stoner wrote: > On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:49:01 -0500 > ptbecker wrote: > To configure synaptic to pull packages from the 'net instead of from the > CD, edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list > > The first line will be something like: > deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.04 _Hoary... > > Comment that line out, and uncomment the next line, which will be > something like: > deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted > > Then run an apt-get update, and sy should pull packages from the > Ubuntu servers instead of from the CD. > > Ian Thanks for the tip. I know what/where to go to edit this file. Now my next problem which I thought about after I installed - How do I get root privileges? I don't remember a menu option to create a root password during the install. I need to go to root to edit this file (and a few other things). I installed kubuntu before this ubuntu run. The kubuntu install went fine, but once I ran knaptic I had serious problems. After 2 failures with knaptic I'm giving ubuntu a try. I have a comcast - once I turn my computer on I should have a connection to the Internet. synaptic will do upgrades without any problems, however, installing packages gives the cdrom issue. Thanks - Pete From ston0235 at umn.edu Thu May 19 19:16:08 2005 From: ston0235 at umn.edu (Ian Stoner) Date: Thu May 19 19:17:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <1116547214.6924.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050519003717.77837b7b.ston0235@umn.edu> <1116547214.6924.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050519191608.53c7db3b.ston0235@umn.edu> On Thu, 19 May 2005 19:00:14 -0500 ptbecker wrote: > Thanks for the tip. I know what/where to go to edit this file. Now my > next problem which I thought about after I installed - How do I get > root privileges? I don't remember a menu option to create a root > password during the install. I need to go to root to edit this file > (and a few other things). Ubuntu doesn't use a root account at all. Instead, the account you made during install has permission to sudo any command. To edit your apt configuration: sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list It will prompt for a password, so enter the password for the account you are logged into. You will then have permission to save your edits. Ian -- Ian Stoner Philosophy Department University of Minnesota http://www.tc.umn.edu/~ston0235/ From bhartm at visi.com Thu May 19 22:11:55 2005 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Thu May 19 22:03:24 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] WARNING - stupid newbie question In-Reply-To: <20050519191608.53c7db3b.ston0235@umn.edu> References: <1116460142.7762.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050519003717.77837b7b.ston0235@umn.edu> <1116547214.6924.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050519191608.53c7db3b.ston0235@umn.edu> Message-ID: <428D557B.9090404@visi.com> Ian Stoner wrote: >On Thu, 19 May 2005 19:00:14 -0500 >ptbecker wrote: > > > >>Thanks for the tip. I know what/where to go to edit this file. Now my >>next problem which I thought about after I installed - How do I get >>root privileges? I don't remember a menu option to create a root >>password during the install. I need to go to root to edit this file >>(and a few other things). >> >> > >Ubuntu doesn't use a root account at all. Instead, the account you made >during install has permission to sudo any command. > >To edit your apt configuration: > >sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list > >It will prompt for a password, so enter the password for the account you >are logged into. You will then have permission to save your edits. > >Ian > > > That's an astounding devolution. I mean, uh, revelation. I thought I was a newbie until I saw a nip at the superbowl. What's next? WebMin? Oh, btw, anybody have suggestions for a viable alternative to WebMin? From smac at visi.com Fri May 20 09:51:09 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Fri May 20 10:01:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux Message-ID: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> So I ran the Ubuntu installation a 3rd time and just let the thing go (screen rolling on 3 terms 1, 2, and 3) The install seamed to complete with a rolling screen that looked like pressing the space bar to complete... Then a "q" to quit the text mode installer while it rolled... Then gnome started!?! I logged in just fine. My Linksys Wireless G does NOT work... I'll have to look at that... It says it's active but the lights never come on and no traffic on the WAP.. It is doing an update at the moment but it seams to work. Go figure ? Sam. Mmmmm... Beer... Homer No not that Homer, Homer Simpson! From brockn at gmail.com Fri May 20 10:07:01 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Fri May 20 10:07:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> Message-ID: <741dcbb805052008077bc98db@mail.gmail.com> send the output of a lspci -v and lsmod On 5/20/05, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > So I ran the Ubuntu installation a 3rd time and just let the thing go > (screen rolling on 3 terms 1, 2, and 3) > > The install seamed to complete with a rolling screen that looked like > pressing the space bar to complete... > Then a "q" to quit the text mode installer while it rolled... > Then gnome started!?! > > I logged in just fine. > > My Linksys Wireless G does NOT work... I'll have to look at that... > It says it's active but the lights never come on and no traffic on > the WAP.. > > It is doing an update at the moment but it seams to work. > > Go figure ? > > Sam. > > Mmmmm... Beer... > Homer > > No not that Homer, Homer Simpson! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050520/35e49fca/attachment.html From rwh at visi.com Fri May 20 10:32:35 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Fri May 20 10:33:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> Message-ID: <428E0313.1070600@visi.com> What kind of encryption are you running on the WAP? I ran across a note when I was looking at ndiswrapper to the effect that it supports WEP but not WPA and if you want to use WPA you need to grab wpa_supplicant - details at http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/WPA --rick Sam MacDonald wrote: > So I ran the Ubuntu installation a 3rd time and just let the thing go > (screen rolling on 3 terms 1, 2, and 3) > > The install seamed to complete with a rolling screen that looked like > pressing the space bar to complete... > Then a "q" to quit the text mode installer while it rolled... > Then gnome started!?! > > I logged in just fine. > > My Linksys Wireless G does NOT work... I'll have to look at that... > It says it's active but the lights never come on and no traffic on > the WAP.. > > It is doing an update at the moment but it seams to work. > > Go figure ? > > Sam. > > Mmmmm... Beer... > Homer > > No not that Homer, Homer Simpson! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From brockn at gmail.com Fri May 20 15:49:12 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Fri May 20 15:49:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <428E19A5.4020206@visi.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> <741dcbb805052008077bc98db@mail.gmail.com> <428E19A5.4020206@visi.com> Message-ID: <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> Wow thats alot of modules!! I am not familiar with Debian distributions, is that normal to load nearly everything as a module? I am a Gentoo guy. Personally, I don't know much about wireless with Linux, but I thought that maybe someone who had the same device to could compare the output of the those commands with their settings. Brock On 5/20/05, Sam MacDonald wrote: > > From the lspci -v I get > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > From the lsmod I get > nothing... > > Sam. > > > from lspci -v > > 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host > bridge (rev 03) > Subsystem: Compaq Computer Corporation Armada M700/E500 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64 > Memory at 50000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M] > Capabilities: > > 0000:00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX AGP > bridge (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) > Flags: 66MHz, medium devsel > Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=0 > I/O behind bridge: 00002000-00002fff > Memory behind bridge: 40000000-410fffff > > 0000:00:04.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1225 (rev 01) > Subsystem: Compaq Computer Corporation Armada E500 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 11 > Memory at 41100000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] > Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=05, sec-latency=176 > Memory window 0: 10000000-103ff000 (prefetchable) > Memory window 1: 10400000-107ff000 > I/O window 0: 00004400-000044ff > I/O window 1: 00004800-000048ff > 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 > > 0000:00:04.1 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1225 (rev 01) > Subsystem: Compaq Computer Corporation Armada E500 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 11 > Memory at 41180000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] > Bus: primary=00, secondary=06, subordinate=09, sec-latency=176 > Memory window 0: 10800000-10bff000 (prefetchable) > Memory window 1: 10c00000-10fff000 > I/O window 0: 00004c00-00004cff > I/O window 1: 00005400-000054ff > 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 > > 0000:00:07.0 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 02) > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0 > > 0000:00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) > (prog-if 80 [Master]) > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64 > I/O ports at 3420 [size=16] > > 0000:00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev > 01) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > I/O ports at 3400 [size=32] > > 0000:00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 03) > Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 9 > > 0000:00:08.0 Multimedia audio controller: ESS Technology ES1978 Maestro > 2E (rev 10) > Subsystem: Compaq Computer Corporation Armada M700/E500 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > I/O ports at 3000 [size=256] > Capabilities: > > 0000:00:09.0 Communication controller: Lucent Microelectronics WinModem > 56k (rev 01) > Subsystem: Compaq Computer Corporation: Unknown device b14e > Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 11 > Memory at 41200000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256] > I/O ports at 3430 [size=8] > I/O ports at 3800 [size=256] > Capabilities: > > 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage > Mobility P/M AGP 2x (rev 64) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) > Subsystem: Compaq Computer Corporation Armada E500 > Flags: bus master, stepping, medium devsel, latency 66, IRQ 11 > Memory at 40000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M] > I/O ports at 2000 [size=256] > Memory at 41000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] > Capabilities: > > 0000:02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Xircom Cardbus Ethernet 10/100 (rev 03) > Subsystem: Xircom Cardbus Ethernet 10/100 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > I/O ports at 4400 [size=128] > Memory at 10400000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2K] > Memory at 10400800 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2K] > Expansion ROM at 10000000 [disabled] [size=16K] > Capabilities: > > 0000:06:00.0 Network controller: Texas Instruments ACX 111 54Mbps > Wireless Interface > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > Memory at 10c20000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8K] > Memory at 10c00000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K] > Capabilities: > > > ******************************** > > from LSMOD > Module Size Used by > acx_pci 134816 0 > speedstep_lib 4228 0 > proc_intf 4100 0 > freq_table 4100 0 > cpufreq_userspace 4572 0 > cpufreq_ondemand 6172 0 > cpufreq_powersave 1920 0 > pcmcia 21380 4 > video 16260 0 > sony_acpi 6280 0 > pcc_acpi 11264 0 > button 6800 0 > battery 10244 0 > container 4608 0 > ac 4996 0 > ipv6 229504 9 > snd_es1968 27648 2 > snd_ac97_codec 64608 1 snd_es1968 > snd_pcm_oss 47652 1 > snd_mixer_oss 16768 2 snd_pcm_oss > snd_pcm 84872 3 snd_es1968,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss > snd_timer 23300 1 snd_pcm > snd_page_alloc 9604 2 snd_es1968,snd_pcm > gameport 4608 1 snd_es1968 > snd_mpu401_uart 7168 1 snd_es1968 > snd_rawmidi 22944 1 snd_mpu401_uart > snd_seq_device 8332 1 snd_rawmidi > snd 50276 9 > > snd_es1968,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device > soundcore 9824 3 snd > af_packet 20744 2 > i2c_piix4 8592 0 > i2c_core 21264 1 i2c_piix4 > uhci_hcd 30224 0 > usbcore 107384 2 uhci_hcd > xircom_tulip_cb 17200 0 > xircom_cb 11136 0 > yenta_socket 19584 2 > pcmcia_core 53568 2 pcmcia,yenta_socket > pci_hotplug 30512 0 > intel_agp 20636 1 > agpgart 31784 1 intel_agp > rtc 12216 0 > pcspkr 3816 0 > irtty_sir 7936 0 > sir_dev 18092 1 irtty_sir > irda 168000 2 irtty_sir,sir_dev > crc_ccitt 2176 1 irda > floppy 54864 0 > md 43856 0 > dm_mod 53116 1 > capability 5000 0 > commoncap 7808 1 capability > joydev 9408 0 > tsdev 7488 0 > evdev 9088 1 > psmouse 19336 0 > mousedev 11160 1 > parport_pc 34372 1 > lp 10792 0 > parport 33480 2 parport_pc,lp > ide_cd 38532 0 > cdrom 36508 1 ide_cd > ext3 120968 1 > jbd 54168 1 ext3 > ide_generic 1664 0 > piix 9988 1 > ide_disk 18176 3 > ide_core 118988 4 ide_cd,ide_generic,piix,ide_disk > unix 26164 778 > thermal 13576 0 > processor 22708 1 thermal > fan 4612 0 > fbcon 34048 0 > font 8448 1 fbcon > bitblit 5120 1 fbcon > vesafb 6948 0 > cfbcopyarea 3968 1 vesafb > cfbimgblt 3072 1 vesafb > cfbfillrect 3584 1 vesafb > > > Brock Noland wrote: > > > send the output of a > > > > lspci -v > > > > and > > > > lsmod > > > > On 5/20/05, *Sam MacDonald* > > wrote: > > > > So I ran the Ubuntu installation a 3rd time and just let the thing go > > (screen rolling on 3 terms 1, 2, and 3) > > > > The install seamed to complete with a rolling screen that looked like > > pressing the space bar to complete... > > Then a "q" to quit the text mode installer while it rolled... > > Then gnome started!?! > > > > I logged in just fine. > > > > My Linksys Wireless G does NOT work... I'll have to look at that... > > It says it's active but the lights never come on and no > > traffic on > > the WAP.. > > > > It is doing an update at the moment but it seams to work. > > > > Go figure ? > > > > Sam. > > > > Mmmmm... Beer... > > Homer > > > > No not that Homer, Homer Simpson! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050520/ab836898/attachment.htm From thecubic at thecubic.net Fri May 20 16:10:40 2005 From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson) Date: Fri May 20 16:11:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> <428E19A5.4020206@visi.com> <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200505201610.44762.thecubic@thecubic.net> On Friday 20 May 2005 15:49, Brock Noland wrote: > Wow thats alot of modules!! I am not familiar with Debian distributions, is > that normal to load nearly everything as a module? I am a Gentoo guy. It's standard practice in distros now to load modules (as the autoloading capabilities work well now) for everything - it's the solution between supporting everything and having a gigantic kernel image and requiring rebuilds. > > 0000:06:00.0 Network controller: Texas Instruments ACX 111 54Mbps > > Wireless Interface > > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > > Memory at 10c20000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8K] > > Memory at 10c00000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K] > > Capabilities: I used to run that card in my desktop (the D-link variety) - but I never could get it to work - the driver was really immature at that point. If you're not using WPA, you should try the ndiswrapper driver. I was quite hesitant to use ndiswrapper for my wireless card (broadcom harvested from a dead WRT54G), but it works phenominally well. > > acx_pci 134816 0 you have the 'native' driver loaded - so any information about what's going on should be in the kernel log (run dmesg) what does the kernel log say about what's happening? -- -dave Dave Carlson PGP/GPG Fingerprint: C3D0 9962 1E98 B742 132D 0E1A CE11 7C4B 5309 97A7 (visit http://www.gnupg.org for more information) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050520/30df462f/attachment-0001.pgp From rwh at visi.com Fri May 20 16:29:11 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Fri May 20 16:29:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> <741dcbb805052008077bc98db@mail.gmail.com> <428E19A5.4020206@visi.com> <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <428E56A7.5050309@visi.com> The good news is that it is supported, but it looks like a lot of work to make it go. http://www.houseofcraig.net/acx100_howto.php has the details on drivers and configurations to use the ACX 111 chipset. They mention that it will work with ndiswrapper but they strongly recommend their driver instead. The project is at http://acx100.sourceforge.net/ --rick > > > On 5/20/05, *Sam MacDonald* > wrote: > > From the lspci -v I get > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > From the lsmod I get > nothing... > > Sam. > [snip] > 0000:06:00.0 Network controller: Texas Instruments ACX 111 54Mbps > Wireless Interface > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > Memory at 10c20000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8K] > Memory at 10c00000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K] > Capabilities: > From brockn at gmail.com Fri May 20 17:42:50 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Fri May 20 17:43:37 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <428E56A7.5050309@visi.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> <741dcbb805052008077bc98db@mail.gmail.com> <428E19A5.4020206@visi.com> <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> <428E56A7.5050309@visi.com> Message-ID: <741dcbb8050520154235e610f4@mail.gmail.com> It looks like Gentoo supports the module as a package. q root # emerge -s acx100 Searching... [ Results for search key : acx100 ] [ Applications found : 1 ] * net-wireless/acx100 [ Masked ] Latest version available: 0.2.0_pre8-r5 Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ] Size of downloaded files: 275 kB Homepage: http://acx100.sourceforge.net/ Description: Driver for the ACX100 and ACX111 wireless chipset (CardBus, PCI, USB driver disabled because it does not compile) License: GPL-2 as-is q root # On 5/20/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > > The good news is that it is supported, but it looks like a lot of work > to make it go. http://www.houseofcraig.net/acx100_howto.php has the > details on drivers and configurations to use the ACX 111 chipset. They > mention that it will work with ndiswrapper but they strongly recommend > their driver instead. The project is at http://acx100.sourceforge.net/ > > --rick > > > > > > > On 5/20/05, *Sam MacDonald* > > wrote: > > > > From the lspci -v I get > > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > > From the lsmod I get > > nothing... > > > > Sam. > > > [snip] > > > 0000:06:00.0 Network controller: Texas Instruments ACX 111 54Mbps > > Wireless Interface > > Subsystem: Linksys: Unknown device 0033 > > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 > > Memory at 10c20000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8K] > > Memory at 10c00000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K] > > Capabilities: > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050520/def26b82/attachment.htm From jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com Fri May 20 19:22:14 2005 From: jonner.2530195 at bloglines.com (jonner.2530195@bloglines.com) Date: Fri May 20 19:23:38 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux acx100 Message-ID: <1116634934.266944355.27805.sendItem@bloglines.com> --- brock.noland@gmail.com wrote: It looks like Gentoo supports the module as a package. > > q root # emerge -s acx100 > Searching... > [ Results for search key : acx100 ] > [ Applications found : 1 ] > > * net-wireless/acx100 [ Masked ] > Latest version available: 0.2.0_pre8-r5 There seems to be one for debian, as well, which may be a little more useful on ubuntu :) http://packages.debian.org/testing/net/acx100-source From brockn at gmail.com Fri May 20 23:14:44 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Fri May 20 23:15:40 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux acx100 In-Reply-To: <1116634934.266944355.27805.sendItem@bloglines.com> References: <1116634934.266944355.27805.sendItem@bloglines.com> Message-ID: <741dcbb805052021142b7d7177@mail.gmail.com> But it does not seem to be working..... Just thinking that trying a Gentoo LiveCD might be worth a shot. Unless he is tied to the distro. On 21 May 2005 00:22:14 -0000, jonner.2530195@bloglines.com < jonner.2530195@bloglines.com> wrote: > > --- brock.noland@gmail.com wrote: > > It looks like Gentoo supports the module > as a package. > > > > > > q root # emerge -s acx100 > > > Searching... > > > [ Results > for search key : acx100 ] > > > [ Applications found : 1 ] > > > > > > * net-wireless/acx100 > [ Masked ] > > > Latest version available: 0.2.0_pre8-r5 > > > > There seems to be > one for debian, as well, which may be a little more useful on ubuntu :) > > > > http://packages.debian.org/testing/net/acx100-source > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050520/2303d2b2/attachment.htm From seg at haxxed.com Sat May 21 10:51:54 2005 From: seg at haxxed.com (Callum Lerwick) Date: Sat May 21 10:53:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <428E56A7.5050309@visi.com> References: <428DF95D.6020601@visi.com> <741dcbb805052008077bc98db@mail.gmail.com> <428E19A5.4020206@visi.com> <741dcbb80505201349422f6b71@mail.gmail.com> <428E56A7.5050309@visi.com> Message-ID: <1116690714.21912.26.camel@bigtime.booze> On Fri, 2005-05-20 at 16:29 -0500, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > The good news is that it is supported, but it looks like a lot of work > to make it go. http://www.houseofcraig.net/acx100_howto.php has the > details on drivers and configurations to use the ACX 111 chipset. They > mention that it will work with ndiswrapper but they strongly recommend > their driver instead. The project is at http://acx100.sourceforge.net/ Also note that the latest drivers seem to be here: http://rhlx01.fht- esslingen.de/~andi/acx100/ Not on the sourceforge page. Nor is the latest link to on the howto page. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050521/b4ad2ce6/attachment.pgp From jwreese0 at comcast.net Sat May 21 13:18:24 2005 From: jwreese0 at comcast.net (John Reese) Date: Sat May 21 13:21:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Disk usage accounting? Message-ID: <428F7B70.60405@comcast.net> A question for the community- Is there a way to monitor disk usage in real time *without* a disk read? Here's the situation: Company managers have dumped large files onto the production server in the course of a single business day. The server has no capacity problem, but the backup system chokes and we lose our backup. The managers have no idea of the size file they are putting on the server, and they tend to do so in batches, which means that there is no 'incremental' buildup to watch over the course of a couple of days. It happens all at once, probably within the space of a few minutes. I can catch the problem with a simple 'df -h' toward the end of the day, but if I see there's a problem for the backup there still is no way to find the problem directory unless I do a disk read with one of the many commands available. I can reduce the scope of the search, but the narrowest scope would still leave me with scores of gigabytes and hundreds of thousands of files. This would coincide with peak server activity, and even if I re-nice the disk read, I would still slow down the company for up to an hour at a critical time of day. What I need is some sort of disk usage accounting that 1) does not rely on a real-time disk read; 2) can locate data growth by file and directory. Is there anything out there that fills the bill? John Reese From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Sat May 21 20:45:25 2005 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Sat May 21 20:45:54 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Linux acx100 In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805052021142b7d7177@mail.gmail.com> References: <1116634934.266944355.27805.sendItem@bloglines.com>, <1116634934.266944355.27805.sendItem@bloglines.com> Message-ID: I have a d-link pc-card using the ACX-111 chipset. When I used the ubuntu live cd release canadate right before Hoary Hedgehog came out the card worked fine using wep. When I installed 5.04 kubuntu the card wouldn't work I had to use ndiswrappers to get it working. From rclark at lakesplus.com Sun May 22 14:44:47 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Sun May 22 14:44:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles Message-ID: I must be out to lunch ... as I am having serious install problems on one particular set of hardware. I am beginning to think the hardware is jinxed for some reason. Configuration: Iwill dual processor board (Xeon) [DP533 board, Intel 7505 chipset] RAM: 2 GB (2 sets of 2 different brand 512 MB sticks) 2 IDE drives (80 GB IDE0 and 120 GB IDE1) CD Burner Plenty of cooling fans, etc. No SCSI hardware, etc. NVidia AGP card (128 MB) I have tried installing the following Linux Oses with little success RH9 - crashes during the start of the install process RH8 - will install, but when updating with apt-get ... gnome starts to crash. Suse9 - crashed during install Fedora Core 3 - crashes when starting to install software (formats drives, etc. fine; have done md5sum check on iso files) (crashes on different files; says issue is media, lack of space, or hardware related problem) (set bios safe default values) Has anyone ever had such difficulties in getting a system to install? I REALLY need this system to get up and running. Some suggestions on possible trouble shooting tips, or ways to get past these crashes would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Randy From brockn at gmail.com Sun May 22 15:06:08 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Sun May 22 15:08:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <741dcbb805052213064f2dae26@mail.gmail.com> I could not get ANYTHING installed ( or even get the Gentoo LiveCD booted!!) on this OLD 300Mhz system they gave me at work. So I booted it with a knoppix CD in text mode and then started the Gentoo install fromt there. Worked like a charm and it has been running for over 100 days with no problems. So I guess to see if the hardware is really bad I would try a Knoppix cd? I *believe* they are better at covering hardware. On 5/22/05, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > > I must be out to lunch ... as I am having serious install problems on one > particular set of hardware. I am beginning to think the hardware is jinxed > for some reason. > > Configuration: > > Iwill dual processor board (Xeon) > [DP533 board, Intel 7505 chipset] > RAM: 2 GB (2 sets of 2 different brand 512 MB sticks) > 2 IDE drives (80 GB IDE0 and 120 GB IDE1) > CD Burner > Plenty of cooling fans, etc. > No SCSI hardware, etc. > NVidia AGP card (128 MB) > > I have tried installing the following Linux Oses with little success > > RH9 - crashes during the start of the install process > RH8 - will install, but when updating with apt-get ... gnome starts to > crash. > Suse9 - crashed during install > Fedora Core 3 - crashes when starting to install software > (formats drives, etc. fine; have done md5sum check on iso files) > (crashes on different files; says issue is media, lack of space, > or hardware related problem) > (set bios safe default values) > > Has anyone ever had such difficulties in getting a system to install? I > REALLY need this system to get up and running. Some suggestions on > possible > trouble shooting tips, or ways to get past these crashes would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050522/718dd73e/attachment.html From hinman at visi.com Sun May 22 15:39:07 2005 From: hinman at visi.com (hinman) Date: Sun May 22 15:40:06 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Disk usage accounting? In-Reply-To: <428F7B70.60405@comcast.net> References: <428F7B70.60405@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4290EDEB.4040200@visi.com> John Reese wrote: > A question for the community- > > Is there a way to monitor disk usage in real time *without* a disk read? > > Here's the situation: Company managers have dumped large files onto the > production server in the course of a single business day. The server has > no capacity problem, but the backup system chokes and we lose our > backup. The managers have no idea of the size file they are putting on > the server, and they tend to do so in batches, which means that there is > no 'incremental' buildup to watch over the course of a couple of days. > It happens all at once, probably within the space of a few minutes. > > I can catch the problem with a simple 'df -h' toward the end of the day, > but if I see there's a problem for the backup there still is no way to > find the problem directory unless I do a disk read with one of the many > commands available. I can reduce the scope of the search, but the > narrowest scope would still leave me with scores of gigabytes and > hundreds of thousands of files. This would coincide with peak server > activity, and even if I re-nice the disk read, I would still slow down > the company for up to an hour at a critical time of day. > > What I need is some sort of disk usage accounting that 1) does not rely > on a real-time disk read; 2) can locate data growth by file and > directory. Is there anything out there that fills the bill? > > John Reese > I don't know of anything that will do exactly what you want. Here are a couple of things that might give you part of what you are looking for. 1. iostat will give you info about data written per partition. The info for this is stored in /proc & /sys so you should have to do any additional disk I/O to get the info. You can get info like amount of data writtend to a partition in the last 6 hours. 2. Process accounting can also give you I/O, but it is setup to give you things per user. So this would tell you that user bob had 200 GB of I/O in the last 6 hours. However process accounting requires that you log all process info to a file and then process that file. This can lead to a small performance hit on the machine, also processing the accounting files isn't trivial but you could do that on another box. -- Lee From rclark at lakesplus.com Sun May 22 15:55:33 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Sun May 22 15:56:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805052213064f2dae26@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The odd thing is though ... that I forgot to mention ... is that online reviews of the motherboard indicate that RH8 installs fine, etc. ... which I experienced ... but no mention of it crashing with updates, etc. Grrrrrr!! Randy p.s. I could not get XP to install either. -----Original Message----- From: Brock Noland [mailto:brockn@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 3:06 PM To: Randy Clarksean Cc: tclug Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles I could not get ANYTHING installed ( or even get the Gentoo LiveCD booted!!) on this OLD 300Mhz system they gave me at work. So I booted it with a knoppix CD in text mode and then started the Gentoo install fromt there. Worked like a charm and it has been running for over 100 days with no problems. So I guess to see if the hardware is really bad I would try a Knoppix cd? I *believe* they are better at covering hardware. On 5/22/05, Randy Clarksean wrote: I must be out to lunch ... as I am having serious install problems on one particular set of hardware. I am beginning to think the hardware is jinxed for some reason. Configuration: Iwill dual processor board (Xeon) [DP533 board, Intel 7505 chipset] RAM: 2 GB (2 sets of 2 different brand 512 MB sticks) 2 IDE drives (80 GB IDE0 and 120 GB IDE1) CD Burner Plenty of cooling fans, etc. No SCSI hardware, etc. NVidia AGP card (128 MB) I have tried installing the following Linux Oses with little success RH9 - crashes during the start of the install process RH8 - will install, but when updating with apt-get ... gnome starts to crash. Suse9 - crashed during install Fedora Core 3 - crashes when starting to install software (formats drives, etc. fine; have done md5sum check on iso files) (crashes on different files; says issue is media, lack of space, or hardware related problem) (set bios safe default values) Has anyone ever had such difficulties in getting a system to install? I REALLY need this system to get up and running. Some suggestions on possible trouble shooting tips, or ways to get past these crashes would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Randy _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050522/384eebda/attachment.htm From adam at askewview.net Sun May 22 17:53:17 2005 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Sun May 22 17:54:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42910D5D.6020303@askewview.net> Are you sure that you might not have a bad stick of ram or other hardware? Adam Randy Clarksean wrote: > The odd thing is though ... that I forgot to mention ... is that > online reviews of the motherboard indicate that RH8 installs fine, > etc. ... which I experienced ... but no mention of it crashing with > updates, etc. Grrrrrr!! > > Randy From jwreese0 at comcast.net Mon May 23 05:45:11 2005 From: jwreese0 at comcast.net (John Reese) Date: Mon May 23 05:46:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] re: Disk usage accounting Message-ID: <1116845111.4865.4.camel@jupiter.lowbrau.net> Thank you very much, Lee. I'll check into process accounting today and see if that fills the bill. John From adam at whee.org Mon May 23 07:11:36 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Mon May 23 07:26:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Disk usage accounting? In-Reply-To: <428F7B70.60405@comcast.net> References: <428F7B70.60405@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 May 2005, John Reese wrote: > A question for the community- > > Is there a way to monitor disk usage in real time *without* a disk read? Hi John, If this is causing issues with your backups - what do you intend to do once you identify the offending file/directory...delete the big files, not back up that directory/partition? How are the files being transferred? If it's FTP or Samba, you can probably setup a system to watch the logs and flag any files over a certain size. Maybe a cron job that e-mails you the results every day? From Fangio101 at neandertech.com Mon May 23 10:22:53 2005 From: Fangio101 at neandertech.com (fangio101) Date: Mon May 23 10:21:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: Linux Install Troubles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050523152253.31350.qmail@stonewebs.com> I've had the same type of problem before, turned out I had a bad memory chip installed. Try running memtest from a live cd--both Knoppix and Mepis both offer the option at bootup. It solved my problem once I removed the bad chip. Randy Clarksean writes: > > I must be out to lunch ... as I am having serious install problems on one > particular set of hardware. I am beginning to think the hardware is jinxed > for some reason. > > Configuration: > > Iwill dual processor board (Xeon) > [DP533 board, Intel 7505 chipset] > RAM: 2 GB (2 sets of 2 different brand 512 MB sticks) > 2 IDE drives (80 GB IDE0 and 120 GB IDE1) > CD Burner > Plenty of cooling fans, etc. > No SCSI hardware, etc. > NVidia AGP card (128 MB) > > I have tried installing the following Linux Oses with little success > > RH9 - crashes during the start of the install process > RH8 - will install, but when updating with apt-get ... gnome starts to > crash. > Suse9 - crashed during install > Fedora Core 3 - crashes when starting to install software > (formats drives, etc. fine; have done md5sum check on iso files) > (crashes on different files; says issue is media, lack of space, > or hardware related problem) > (set bios safe default values) > > Has anyone ever had such difficulties in getting a system to install? I > REALLY need this system to get up and running. Some suggestions on possible > trouble shooting tips, or ways to get past these crashes would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From brockn at gmail.com Mon May 23 19:22:09 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Mon May 23 19:22:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing Message-ID: <741dcbb805052317225b860e8b@mail.gmail.com> I am writing a script which will take a password as an arg and need to use that password when for sshing around. For various reasons I cannot use key based authentication. However, ssh does not appear to take stdin: brock@brockwork brock $ echo password | ssh localhost Pseudo-terminal will not be allocated because stdin is not a terminal. Password: -bash: line 1: password: command not found brock@brockwork brock $ and brock@brockwork brock $ ssh localhost << END > password > END Pseudo-terminal will not be allocated because stdin is not a terminal. Password: Thus, does anyone know how to give ssh a password in a script? Thanks From tclug at beitsahour.net Tue May 24 06:50:45 2005 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Tue May 24 06:52:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing References: <741dcbb805052317225b860e8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Brock Noland writes: > Thus, does anyone know how to give ssh a password in a script? not quite exactly what you want, but if you use passphraseless keys it should do what you want. that is, ssh without asking for a password. -- Munir Nassar From sfertch at gmail.com Tue May 24 07:36:11 2005 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue May 24 07:36:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: <741dcbb805052317225b860e8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a05052405365cfd9b2f@mail.gmail.com> On 5/24/05, Munir Nassar wrote: > Brock Noland writes: > > > Thus, does anyone know how to give ssh a password in a script? > > not quite exactly what you want, but if you use passphraseless keys it > should do what you want. that is, ssh without asking for a password. > Not sure why, but he was saying that keys aren't an acceptable use at this time. I believe what he's looking for to use is "expect". I'm curious as to why he says using keys isn't acceptable. Brock, can you give reasons why? -- -Shawn -Nemo me impune lacessit. Ne Obliviscaris.. From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue May 24 07:39:54 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue May 24 07:40:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 May 2005, Munir Nassar wrote: > not quite exactly what you want, but if you use passphraseless keys it > should do what you want. that is, ssh without asking for a password. Did you read the first paragraph of his email? > I am writing a script which will take a password as an arg and need to > use that password when for sshing around. For various reasons I cannot > use key based authentication. Not that I disagree with you; the "password-in-a-script" concept makes me uneasy (not that I know of a way to implement it). I'd sooner put my efforts into remedying whatever prevents key-based auth from being an option. Jima From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 24 09:18:19 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 24 09:18:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <741dcbb805052407181bf956e8@mail.gmail.com> I work for a large corporation and there is about 2200 boxes in my environment alone. Since I don't work for the UNIX team I cannot install things on the boxes, because I am just a user. This includes keys for authentication. The password will NOT be stored in the script. I am writing some scripts for my own personal use that I want to be able to go out to say 400 boxes and then run some command. Since I have the same username and password, I plan on writing a script which asks for them once and then stores them, in a variable - only temporarily, for all of the boxes. Expect will work GREAT! Thanks for the help! On 5/24/05, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 24 May 2005, Munir Nassar wrote: > > not quite exactly what you want, but if you use passphraseless keys it > > should do what you want. that is, ssh without asking for a password. > > Did you read the first paragraph of his email? > > > I am writing a script which will take a password as an arg and need to > > use that password when for sshing around. For various reasons I cannot > > use key based authentication. > > Not that I disagree with you; the "password-in-a-script" concept makes me > uneasy (not that I know of a way to implement it). I'd sooner put my > efforts into remedying whatever prevents key-based auth from being an > option. > > Jima > > From poptix at poptix.net Tue May 24 09:29:16 2005 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue May 24 09:30:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805052317225b860e8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <741dcbb805052317225b860e8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050524142916.GQ22375@momentum.poptix.net> On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 07:22:09PM -0500, Brock Noland wrote: > I am writing a script which will take a password as an arg and need to > use that password when for sshing around. For various reasons I cannot > use key based authentication. You can use lsh, an openssh alternative*, to do this. lsh supports calling a seperate program for the password input (--askpass=/path/to/program). You could easily ask for the password in the first step, dump it to a short (properly chmod!) bash script that simply prints the password when called, then call that bash script with the --askpass setting. Obviously there are more secure ways of doing this. * I do not advocate the use of lsh for anything other than this, it's too debian-like. -- Matthew S. Hallacy http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue May 24 09:34:43 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue May 24 09:36:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing Message-ID: Brock, Installing ssh keys on 400 hosts might be a good amount of work, but it doesn't really involve "installing" anything but a directory and a file under your home directory on those boxes. The upside is that no password information goes onto the wire when you use keys (unless they are served via NFS or some other network file system), and you can use ssh-agent to store your credentials instead of rolling your own solution. Just my 2 cents, Troy >>> brockn@gmail.com 05/24/05 9:18 AM >>> I work for a large corporation and there is about 2200 boxes in my environment alone. Since I don't work for the UNIX team I cannot install things on the boxes, because I am just a user. This includes keys for authentication. The password will NOT be stored in the script. I am writing some scripts for my own personal use that I want to be able to go out to say 400 boxes and then run some command. Since I have the same username and password, I plan on writing a script which asks for them once and then stores them, in a variable - only temporarily, for all of the boxes. Expect will work GREAT! Thanks for the help! On 5/24/05, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 24 May 2005, Munir Nassar wrote: > > not quite exactly what you want, but if you use passphraseless keys it > > should do what you want. that is, ssh without asking for a password. > > Did you read the first paragraph of his email? > > > I am writing a script which will take a password as an arg and need to > > use that password when for sshing around. For various reasons I cannot > > use key based authentication. > > Not that I disagree with you; the "password-in-a-script" concept makes me > uneasy (not that I know of a way to implement it). I'd sooner put my > efforts into remedying whatever prevents key-based auth from being an > option. > > Jima > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue May 24 09:47:47 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue May 24 09:48:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Syslog on Windows Message-ID: Greetings TCLUG People! Since there are many intelligent and security minded folks here, and the instructions involve a Linux syslog server, I thought I would ask you what you think of this little page I wrote up: http://troy.jdmz.net/syslogwin/ ...and, I wondered how any syslog wizards here deal with the logs after they have accumulated. I have lots of valuable information, just no great way of reporting it yet. :-/ Have a great day, Troy From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 24 10:05:46 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 24 10:06:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <741dcbb805052408054c639f36@mail.gmail.com> I use ssh-agent on my own. Due to the fact that it is about 50 times easier to use key based authentication. They will NOT allow me to do this! Its absolutely, 100% NOT an option. Thanks for the input!! I believe we can mark this one as [solved]. On 5/24/05, Troy.A Johnson wrote: > Brock, > > Installing ssh keys on 400 hosts might be a good amount > of work, but it doesn't really involve "installing" anything > but a directory and a file under your home directory on those > boxes. The upside is that no password information goes > onto the wire when you use keys (unless they are served > via NFS or some other network file system), and you can > use ssh-agent to store your credentials instead of rolling > your own solution. > > Just my 2 cents, > > Troy > > >>> brockn@gmail.com 05/24/05 9:18 AM >>> > I work for a large corporation and there is about 2200 boxes in my > environment alone. Since I don't work for the UNIX team I cannot > install things on the boxes, because I am just a user. This includes > keys for authentication. The password will NOT be stored in the > script. > > I am writing some scripts for my own personal use that I want to be > able to go out to say 400 boxes and then run some command. Since I > have the same username and password, I plan on writing a script which > asks for them once and then stores them, in a variable - only > temporarily, for all of the boxes. > > Expect will work GREAT! Thanks for the help! > > On 5/24/05, Jima wrote: > > On Tue, 24 May 2005, Munir Nassar wrote: > > > not quite exactly what you want, but if you use passphraseless keys > it > > > should do what you want. that is, ssh without asking for a password. > > > > Did you read the first paragraph of his email? > > > > > I am writing a script which will take a password as an arg and need > to > > > use that password when for sshing around. For various reasons I > cannot > > > use key based authentication. > > > > Not that I disagree with you; the "password-in-a-script" concept makes > me > > uneasy (not that I know of a way to implement it). I'd sooner put my > > efforts into remedying whatever prevents key-based auth from being an > > option. > > > > Jima > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue May 24 10:20:05 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue May 24 10:20:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805052407181bf956e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > I work for a large corporation and there is about 2200 boxes in my > environment alone. Since I don't work for the UNIX team I cannot > install things on the boxes, because I am just a user. This includes > keys for authentication. The password will NOT be stored in the > script. Okay, that's somewhat better. I have some reservations about how long the password is held in memory plaintext by the script (I can't imagine ssh holds it as such for any longer than it must), but I suppose that's a fairly minimal risk. > I am writing some scripts for my own personal use that I want to be > able to go out to say 400 boxes and then run some command. Since I > have the same username and password, I plan on writing a script which > asks for them once and then stores them, in a variable - only > temporarily, for all of the boxes. Wait. The wording of that suggests the password is the same on 400 machines. THAT I consider a huge security risk. I have a hard time believing I'm the only one. Jima From brockn at gmail.com Tue May 24 10:26:31 2005 From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland) Date: Tue May 24 10:28:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: <741dcbb805052407181bf956e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <741dcbb805052408261b085971@mail.gmail.com> > Wait. The wording of that suggests the password is the same on 400 > machines. THAT I consider a huge security risk. I have a hard time > believing I'm the only one. You are right! HUGE security risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They consider the risk minmal because the network is completely locked down. I disagree. Like I stated before, I am not on the UNIX team. I do not make these decisions. All I want is a simple solution for myself. From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue May 24 10:28:56 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue May 24 10:30:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hmm - i have the same password on possibly thousands of boxes. i'll have to get the NIS+ admins on that pronto. On May 24, 2005, at 10:20 AM, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 24 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > >> I work for a large corporation and there is about 2200 boxes in my >> environment alone. Since I don't work for the UNIX team I cannot >> install things on the boxes, because I am just a user. This includes >> keys for authentication. The password will NOT be stored in the >> script. >> > > Okay, that's somewhat better. I have some reservations about how > long > the password is held in memory plaintext by the script (I can't > imagine > ssh holds it as such for any longer than it must), but I suppose > that's a > fairly minimal risk. > > >> I am writing some scripts for my own personal use that I want to be >> able to go out to say 400 boxes and then run some command. Since I >> have the same username and password, I plan on writing a script which >> asks for them once and then stores them, in a variable - only >> temporarily, for all of the boxes. >> > > Wait. The wording of that suggests the password is the same on 400 > machines. THAT I consider a huge security risk. I have a hard time > believing I'm the only one. {snipped - misc. signatures} -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From natecars at natecarlson.com Tue May 24 10:32:45 2005 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue May 24 10:34:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 7mbps DSL from ipHouse In-Reply-To: References: <20050503213439.GH66497@therub.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 May 2005, Nate Carlson wrote: > It's supposed to be pretty sweet. I'm really considering moving from > cable for it.. OK, I got tired of considering, and did it. >From my router: Speed (down/up): 7168 / 896 Kbps Yay! Living 5000ft from the CO has it's advantages. Total monthly bill: $43 + tax from Qwest (standalone DSL line) plus $25 from ipHouse (DSL, plus /30 subnet). I may drop the /30 at some point and just throw a Sangoma card in my Linux box - that way, I can also avoid using an Actiontec piece'o'junk. If anyone decides to give this a shot at ipHouse, feel free to use me as a reference. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue May 24 10:33:45 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue May 24 10:36:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 May 2005, steve ulrich wrote: > hmm - i have the same password on possibly thousands of boxes. i'll > have to get the NIS+ admins on that pronto. And if someone managed to get root on one of those NIS+-managed machines, they'd be able to get to your encrypted password, right? Right? Slightly different subject, IMO. Jima From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue May 24 10:32:20 2005 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue May 24 10:36:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing Message-ID: >>> Jima 05/24/05 10:20 AM >>> On Tue, 24 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > I work for a large corporation and there is about 2200 boxes in my... >... keys for authentication. The password will NOT be stored in the > script. Okay, that's somewhat better. I have some reservations about how long the password is held in memory plaintext by the script (I can't imagine ssh holds it as such for any longer than it must), but I suppose that's a fairly minimal risk. > I am writing some scripts for my own personal use that I want to be > able to go out to say 400 boxes and then run some command. Since I > have the same username and password, I plan on writing a script which > asks for them once and then stores them, in a variable - only > temporarily, for all of the boxes. Wait. The wording of that suggests the password is the same on 400 machines. THAT I consider a huge security risk. I have a hard time believing I'm the only one. I agree that the risk is greater, but it may be necessitated by a single authentication source, or human memory (I cannot remember 400 different passwords). It seems Brocks solution must be acceptable to The Inane Powers That Be. I deal with them too sometimes. They are a PITA. :-) Have a good one, and good luck! Troy From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue May 24 10:42:14 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue May 24 10:42:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: <741dcbb805052408261b085971@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 May 2005, Brock Noland wrote: > > Wait. The wording of that suggests the password is the same on 400 > > machines. THAT I consider a huge security risk. I have a hard time > > believing I'm the only one. > > You are right! HUGE security > risk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > They consider the risk minmal because the network is completely locked > down. I disagree. Like I stated before, I am not on the UNIX team. I > do not make these decisions. All I want is a simple solution for > myself. Okay, so you're aware of the issue. That was my main concern on the matter. :) Jima From rclark at lakesplus.com Tue May 24 10:52:27 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Tue May 24 10:52:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles In-Reply-To: <42910D5D.6020303@askewview.net> Message-ID: Just a follow-up to let everyone know the outcome to this problem. Two bad sticks of RAM! System would boot, do its own check, report 2GB, and then continue on startup ... why RH8 installed I have no idea. I booted with Knoppix and ran memtest ... within a few seconds errors started jumping out at me ... some fun ehhh? So ... all I have to say is *&$( @#(*) *#&@#)! ... more than a time or two .. grrrr. Fedora Core 3 is on the system ... it is running fine ... all updates have been downloaded and installed. Hell of a deal isn't it? :-) Randy > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Adam > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 5:53 PM > To: tclug-list@mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux Install Troubles > > > Are you sure that you might not have a bad stick of ram or other hardware? > > Adam > > Randy Clarksean wrote: > > > The odd thing is though ... that I forgot to mention ... is that > > online reviews of the motherboard indicate that RH8 installs fine, > > etc. ... which I experienced ... but no mention of it crashing with > > updates, etc. Grrrrrr!! > > > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue May 24 11:07:21 2005 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue May 24 11:08:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95429C1C-4731-41CE-B469-C920926408D1@botwerks.org> On May 24, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 24 May 2005, steve ulrich wrote: > >> hmm - i have the same password on possibly thousands of boxes. i'll >> have to get the NIS+ admins on that pronto. >> > > And if someone managed to get root on one of those NIS+-managed > machines, > they'd be able to get to your encrypted password, right? Right? > Slightly different subject, IMO. true - a slightly different topic. but if root has been compromised you have larger issues than were alluded to in the previous email. it's trivial for someone to replace the nss infrastructure on a system and they don't even have to get their mitts on encrypted passwords. just sniff the cleartext and proxy the auth request. getting back to the practicality vs. security tradeoffs i would argue that forcing someone to have N passwords to interact with N+M (where M >=0 and N > 1) machines does nothing to improve security either. hence throwing up that 400 odd machines with user accounts having the same password as being some great security risk is fallacious at best. if you want to secure that problem use some N-factor authentication mechanism (read: OTP). but that's somewhat orthogonal to this discussion. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From josh at joshwelch.com Tue May 24 11:17:15 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Tue May 24 11:18:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Syslog on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1116951435.4293538b05ea9@joshwelch.com> Quoting "Troy.A Johnson" : > Greetings TCLUG People! > > Since there are many intelligent and security minded > folks here, and the instructions involve a Linux syslog > server, I thought I would ask you what you think of this > little page I wrote up: > > http://troy.jdmz.net/syslogwin/ > > ...and, I wondered how any syslog wizards here deal > with the logs after they have accumulated. I have lots > of valuable information, just no great way of reporting > it yet. :-/ > > Have a great day, > > Troy > I have fooled around with doing Windows logging using Snare, http://www.intersectalliance.com/projects/SnareWindows/index.html. It is interesting, but I really need to spend more time with understanding windows events in order to get something valuable out of the data. It seems like Windows is willing to give you lots of information, but trying to parse it in a sane fashion is non-trivial. Good site for gathering enough logging information to make your head spin, http://www.loganalysis.org. Josh From rwh at visi.com Tue May 24 11:21:14 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Tue May 24 11:24:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4293547A.30706@visi.com> Jima wrote: >On Tue, 24 May 2005, steve ulrich wrote: > > >>hmm - i have the same password on possibly thousands of boxes. i'll >>have to get the NIS+ admins on that pronto. >> >> > > And if someone managed to get root on one of those NIS+-managed machines, >they'd be able to get to your encrypted password, right? Right? > Slightly different subject, IMO. > > Jima > > I think its pretty easy to argue that passwords, at least passwords alone, are an idea whose time has come and gone. I've recently gone through a bunch of the various password checkers, PAM modules, etc. and it certainly appears that they impose sufficient restrictions on what constitutes an acceptable password that they actually make the resulting passwords more vulnerable to brute force attacks. If you look at the reduced keyspace that comes from requiring specific character classes, the elimination any passwords that contain character strings of 3 characters or more that appear in any of the specified dictionaries, and just the psychology of memory it seems like you should be able to build a smart password cracker to exploit those enforced weaknesses - maybe a project for the summer :-) --rick From slushpupie at gmail.com Tue May 24 11:42:51 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Tue May 24 11:44:30 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Network Logins WAS: Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: <4293547A.30706@visi.com> References: <4293547A.30706@visi.com> Message-ID: On 5/24/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > Jima wrote: > > >On Tue, 24 May 2005, steve ulrich wrote: > > > > > >>hmm - i have the same password on possibly thousands of boxes. i'll > >>have to get the NIS+ admins on that pronto. > >> > >> > > > > And if someone managed to get root on one of those NIS+-managed machines, > >they'd be able to get to your encrypted password, right? Right? > > Slightly different subject, IMO. > > > > Jima > > > > > I think its pretty easy to argue that passwords, at least passwords > alone, are an idea whose time has come and gone. I've recently gone > through a bunch of the various password checkers, PAM modules, etc. and > it certainly appears that they impose sufficient restrictions on what > constitutes an acceptable password that they actually make the resulting > passwords more vulnerable to brute force attacks. If you look at the > reduced keyspace that comes from requiring specific character classes, > the elimination any passwords that contain character strings of 3 > characters or more that appear in any of the specified dictionaries, and > just the psychology of memory it seems like you should be able to build > a smart password cracker to exploit those enforced weaknesses - maybe a > project for the summer :-) Now that we are not on the same topic anymore- The whole idea behind Kerberos solves both the original problem and the one stated above. Simply put, your password never goes accross the network, and you can log into any system in your realm by logging in once (single sign-on). Yes, it is much more complicated to set up, but if you are managing 400+ systems, you likely have a complicated infrastructure in place already. Of course, migrating to kerberos after you have 400+ systems set up is non-trivial. Its easier to start from the ground up on that one. Jay -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From chewie at wookimus.net Tue May 24 11:49:08 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Tue May 24 11:50:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware Message-ID: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> We've got a slight situation at CBS. Without getting into too much detail, I'm looking for an old, working ATA or possibly MFM hard drive. We're talking circa '91 or so. With that in mind, we may also need to replace the entire machine, in which case we'ld need something with at least three ISA slots and can run some old, decrepit version of DOS. (This thing has a Y2k card in it, even!) Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something along those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From rwh at visi.com Tue May 24 12:03:28 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Tue May 24 12:04:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Network Logins WAS: Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: References: <4293547A.30706@visi.com> Message-ID: <42935E60.5000505@visi.com> slushpupie@gmail.com wrote: >On 5/24/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > > >>Jima wrote: >> >> >> >>>On Tue, 24 May 2005, steve ulrich wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>hmm - i have the same password on possibly thousands of boxes. i'll >>>>have to get the NIS+ admins on that pronto. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>And if someone managed to get root on one of those NIS+-managed machines, >>>they'd be able to get to your encrypted password, right? Right? >>>Slightly different subject, IMO. >>> >>> Jima >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I think its pretty easy to argue that passwords, at least passwords >>alone, are an idea whose time has come and gone. I've recently gone >>through a bunch of the various password checkers, PAM modules, etc. and >>it certainly appears that they impose sufficient restrictions on what >>constitutes an acceptable password that they actually make the resulting >>passwords more vulnerable to brute force attacks. If you look at the >>reduced keyspace that comes from requiring specific character classes, >>the elimination any passwords that contain character strings of 3 >>characters or more that appear in any of the specified dictionaries, and >>just the psychology of memory it seems like you should be able to build >>a smart password cracker to exploit those enforced weaknesses - maybe a >>project for the summer :-) >> >> > >Now that we are not on the same topic anymore- The whole idea behind >Kerberos solves both the original problem and the one stated above. >Simply put, your password never goes accross the network, and you can >log into any system in your realm by logging in once (single sign-on). > Yes, it is much more complicated to set up, but if you are managing >400+ systems, you likely have a complicated infrastructure in place >already. Of course, migrating to kerberos after you have 400+ systems >set up is non-trivial. Its easier to start from the ground up on that >one. > > I've only got a dozen users so its hard to justify Kerberos for other than intellectual curiousity - so it might get done anyway. --rick From slushpupie at gmail.com Tue May 24 12:14:59 2005 From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie@gmail.com) Date: Tue May 24 12:16:32 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Network Logins WAS: Giving SSH a password without typing In-Reply-To: <42935E60.5000505@visi.com> References: <4293547A.30706@visi.com> <42935E60.5000505@visi.com> Message-ID: On 5/24/05, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > I've only got a dozen users so its hard to justify Kerberos for other > than intellectual curiousity - so it might get done anyway. Those are the best projects :-) -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From Fangio101 at neandertech.com Tue May 24 12:29:15 2005 From: Fangio101 at neandertech.com (fangio101) Date: Tue May 24 12:26:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: Linux Install Troubles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050524172915.30848.qmail@stonewebs.com> Glad you found the problem, it took me almost two months and about a dozen attempts to install seven or eight different distributions before I found my bad stick of RAM. Think I said just about the same things you did, in triplicate! Randy Clarksean writes: > Just a follow-up to let everyone know the outcome to this problem. > > Two bad sticks of RAM! System would boot, do its own check, report 2GB, and > then continue on startup ... why RH8 installed I have no idea. I booted with > Knoppix and ran memtest ... within a few seconds errors started jumping out > at me ... some fun ehhh? > > So ... all I have to say is *&$( @#(*) *#&@#)! ... more than a time or two > .. grrrr. > > Fedora Core 3 is on the system ... it is running fine ... all updates have > been downloaded and installed. Hell of a deal isn't it? :-) > From smac at visi.com Tue May 24 12:53:57 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 24 13:04:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Syslog on Windows In-Reply-To: <1116951435.4293538b05ea9@joshwelch.com> References: <1116951435.4293538b05ea9@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <42936A35.3090701@visi.com> Back in the day when NT was new the resource kit contained a book with most of the codes for the Event/Sys log on windows. Some of it was good some of it was not as good and some was not so good. Sam. josh@joshwelch.com wrote: >Quoting "Troy.A Johnson" : > > > >>Greetings TCLUG People! >> >>Since there are many intelligent and security minded >>folks here, and the instructions involve a Linux syslog >>server, I thought I would ask you what you think of this >>little page I wrote up: >> >>http://troy.jdmz.net/syslogwin/ >> >>...and, I wondered how any syslog wizards here deal >>with the logs after they have accumulated. I have lots >>of valuable information, just no great way of reporting >>it yet. :-/ >> >>Have a great day, >> >>Troy >> >> >> > >I have fooled around with doing Windows logging using Snare, >http://www.intersectalliance.com/projects/SnareWindows/index.html. It is >interesting, but I really need to spend more time with understanding windows >events in order to get something valuable out of the data. It seems like >Windows is willing to give you lots of information, but trying to parse it in a >sane fashion is non-trivial. > >Good site for gathering enough logging information to make your head spin, >http://www.loganalysis.org. > >Josh > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From chewie at wookimus.net Tue May 24 13:25:39 2005 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Tue May 24 13:26:31 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <20050524182539.A17623E24@skuld.wookimus.net> Chad Walstrom wrote: > Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something > along those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. I want to thank you all for your overwhelming response. I knew we had some pack rats, but I didn't expect all of the replies I got. Thanks again! If this old monster goes belly-up before the College can enact a replacement plan (within 3 weeks, hopefully), I'll definitely be tapping one of your offers. Thanks again! As I said in some of my replies, TCLUG is an awesome group of people. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Tue May 24 13:45:22 2005 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Tue May 24 13:46:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Syslog on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9d6c825305052411455fa1d47a@mail.gmail.com> If you are okay not working with syslog stuff, you could try Enterprise Event Monitoring. http://sourceforge.net/projects/evntmon/ This was an event monitoring tool that would use samba administrative shares to pull the event logs and parse it into a Mysql or Postgresql database. It had a nice web interface with links for common event id's. The only problem I had with the system was the massive amounts of data. I was running this against 40 telecommuters at home. It would work for 2-3 weeks, then the database would need to be managed and I would just blow everything away and start fresh. After a couple of months refreshing the database, I figured that I didn't need the data that badly. -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F From nassarmu at beitsahour.net Tue May 24 15:40:40 2005 From: nassarmu at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Tue May 24 15:42:34 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> Chad Walstrom wrote: > We've got a slight situation at CBS. Without getting into too much > detail, I'm looking for an old, working ATA or possibly MFM hard > drive. We're talking circa '91 or so. With that in mind, we may also > need to replace the entire machine, in which case we'ld need something > with at least three ISA slots and can run some old, decrepit version > of DOS. (This thing has a Y2k card in it, even!) > > Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something along > those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. i have some 850 megs ATA drives that i have not gotten around to destroying yet. I also have some Pentium classic/pro boards and procs about. ATX form factor. 4pci+4isa, no ram. somewhere i also have a 486 or two, at least one fully assembled and ready to go. I also have some 386 boxen but i never powered them up, and no amount of protective gear/lysol/divine protection would get me to put my hands inside those things. the price is that you take it all. as is. -- Munir Nassa -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050524/a840f7cd/signature-0001.pgp From wendigo at clancf.net Tue May 24 16:02:30 2005 From: wendigo at clancf.net (Jim Masters) Date: Tue May 24 15:58:33 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <20050524182539.A17623E24@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <002401c560a3$e662af50$6300000a@jim> Damn and I was gonna offer my just decomissoned yet still rock solid PPro150 overclocked to a whopping 166. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Walstrom" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] May need old hardware > Chad Walstrom wrote: > > Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something > > along those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. > > I want to thank you all for your overwhelming response. I knew we had > some pack rats, but I didn't expect all of the replies I got. Thanks > again! If this old monster goes belly-up before the College can enact > a replacement plan (within 3 weeks, hopefully), I'll definitely be > tapping one of your offers. > > Thanks again! As I said in some of my replies, TCLUG is an awesome > group of people. > > -- > Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ > assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From smac at visi.com Tue May 24 16:51:16 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 24 17:02:35 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <002401c560a3$e662af50$6300000a@jim> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <20050524182539.A17623E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <002401c560a3$e662af50$6300000a@jim> Message-ID: <4293A1D4.1060504@visi.com> Old stuff is so cool, I have many old processors, sort of a collection, 286, 386, 486, amd486, Pentium, Pentium Pro, amd Pentium, and many others. One of these days I'll mount, frame and hang them :-) I've divested most of the old stuff but I do have some PCI video cards. Lots of old RAM "LOTS". I think I have an old internal 14.4 modem. Heat syncs lots of heat syncs the Pentium Pro heat syncs are great for business cards :) Several keyboards and mice. Sam. Jim Masters wrote: >Damn and I was gonna offer my just decomissoned yet still rock solid PPro150 >overclocked to a whopping 166. > >Jim > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chad Walstrom" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:25 PM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] May need old hardware > > > > >>Chad Walstrom wrote: >> >> >>>Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something >>>along those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. >>> >>> >>I want to thank you all for your overwhelming response. I knew we had >>some pack rats, but I didn't expect all of the replies I got. Thanks >>again! If this old monster goes belly-up before the College can enact >>a replacement plan (within 3 weeks, hopefully), I'll definitely be >>tapping one of your offers. >> >>Thanks again! As I said in some of my replies, TCLUG is an awesome >>group of people. >> >>-- >>Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ >> assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list@mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Tue May 24 20:55:53 2005 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black) Date: Tue May 24 21:00:36 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> Message-ID: <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 03:40:40PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > Chad Walstrom wrote: > >We've got a slight situation at CBS. Without getting into too much > >detail, I'm looking for an old, working ATA or possibly MFM hard > >drive. We're talking circa '91 or so. With that in mind, we may also > >need to replace the entire machine, in which case we'ld need something > >with at least three ISA slots and can run some old, decrepit version > >of DOS. (This thing has a Y2k card in it, even!) > > > >Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something along > >those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. > No can do. Something as valuable as a 386 is a must keep. I do have a spare Timex/Sinclair 1000 though :-) 73's de Kelly KB0GBJ From bhartm at visi.com Tue May 24 21:51:47 2005 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Tue May 24 21:44:39 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <4293E843.3020406@visi.com> I have a mini-tower 386 cloney thing you can have for nothin. Has all the cloney parts-- I/O IDE and com controller, maybe ~300MB HDD, and probably a modem too. WfW preinstalled... I snagged it from work in '96 because it was the fastest 386 I'd ever seen. (I'm keeping the Apple ][+ and Commodore.) email if anyone's interested. Kelly Black wrote: >On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 03:40:40PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: > > >>Chad Walstrom wrote: >> >> >>>We've got a slight situation at CBS. Without getting into too much >>>detail, I'm looking for an old, working ATA or possibly MFM hard >>>drive. We're talking circa '91 or so. With that in mind, we may also >>>need to replace the entire machine, in which case we'ld need something >>>with at least three ISA slots and can run some old, decrepit version >>>of DOS. (This thing has a Y2k card in it, even!) >>> >>>Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something along >>>those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. >>> >>> >No can do. Something as valuable as a 386 is a must keep. I do have a >spare Timex/Sinclair 1000 though :-) > >73's de >Kelly >KB0GBJ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From smac at visi.com Wed May 25 06:18:02 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Wed May 25 06:28:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <4293E843.3020406@visi.com> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> <4293E843.3020406@visi.com> Message-ID: <42945EEA.8040702@visi.com> I could run Coherent on a 386 thats really tempting, does it have an Ethernet card in it? Sam. Bob Hartmann wrote: > > I have a mini-tower 386 cloney thing you can have for nothin. Has all > the cloney parts-- I/O IDE and com controller, maybe ~300MB HDD, and > probably a modem too. WfW preinstalled... I snagged it from work in > '96 because it was the fastest 386 I'd ever seen. (I'm keeping the > Apple ][+ and Commodore.) > email if anyone's interested. > Kelly Black wrote: > >> On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 03:40:40PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: >> >> >>> Chad Walstrom wrote: >>> >>> >>>> We've got a slight situation at CBS. Without getting into too much >>>> detail, I'm looking for an old, working ATA or possibly MFM hard >>>> drive. We're talking circa '91 or so. With that in mind, we may also >>>> need to replace the entire machine, in which case we'ld need something >>>> with at least three ISA slots and can run some old, decrepit version >>>> of DOS. (This thing has a Y2k card in it, even!) >>>> >>>> Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something along >>>> those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. >>>> >>> >> No can do. Something as valuable as a 386 is a must keep. I do have a >> spare Timex/Sinclair 1000 though :-) >> >> 73's de >> Kelly >> KB0GBJ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From rwh at visi.com Wed May 25 09:23:29 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Wed May 25 09:24:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <42948A61.7080603@visi.com> Kelly Black wrote: >No can do. Something as valuable as a 386 is a must keep. I do have a >spare Timex/Sinclair 1000 though :-) > > At the risk of dating myself I still have a tan case Osborne 1 in my hallway closet. The good old days of holding a bunch of 180K floppies in your teeth for each pass of the compiler, plus the linker, made hacking more of a sport than it is today :-) --rick From adam at whee.org Wed May 25 09:27:48 2005 From: adam at whee.org (Adam Maloney) Date: Wed May 25 09:42:44 2005 Subject: OT Old Hardware (was Re: [tclug-list] May need old hardware) In-Reply-To: <42948A61.7080603@visi.com> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> <42948A61.7080603@visi.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 May 2005, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > At the risk of dating myself I still have a tan case Osborne 1 in my > hallway closet. The good old days of holding a bunch of 180K floppies in > your teeth for each pass of the compiler, plus the linker, made hacking > more of a sport than it is today :-) My first computer was a TRS-80 "CoCo" II. It was made the same year I was. I got some books and taught myself BASIC, and later Z-80 assembler on it. I remember in 5th grade, I programmed it to calculate pi (squaring the circle method). I let it run for 4 days straight, and I don't remember how far it got, but I know it wasn't very far. I used it for years until we got an XT. It sat in my closet for a long time while I progressed through the x86 generations. About 7 years ago I powered it up and it ran fine - I loaded a couple of disks and they seemed to read okay. But when I moved a year later, I took it with and it apparently didn't survive the move. Appears to be a PS problem, but I've never had time to work on it. I'd love to revive it someday. From strayf at freeshell.org Wed May 25 10:43:57 2005 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steven Cayford) Date: Wed May 25 10:44:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: <20050525154357.GA29600@callisto-acss.acad.umn.edu> On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 08:55:53PM -0500, Kelly Black wrote: > No can do. Something as valuable as a 386 is a must keep. I do have a > spare Timex/Sinclair 1000 though :-) I couldn't give up my T/S 1000. It just sits in a box, but still... that's what I learned assembly on. Not that I remember much of it. -Steve From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed May 25 11:05:22 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed May 25 11:08:44 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200505251605.j4PG5Mo08854@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: older pcs #1 -clone k62 300mhz, cdrom, 64mb ram (4 16mb 72pin simms), two pci nics, floppy, 2mb pci video, 2gb & 1gb hd's....$20 (my old smoothwall test box) #2 -clone celeron 733mhz, cdrom, 256mb (128mb *2) ram, M758LMR PC133 GFXcel motherboard, intel pci nic, 2mb pci video, 20gb ide hd...$70 (my old p2p box) #3 -HP Pavilion celeron 533mhz, 256mb ram?, 10gb hd, modem, cdrom....i need check the specifics on this email if interested...(received as payment for a job) #4 -Hp Pavilion 6630, celeron 500mhz, 384mb ram (256mb*1 & 128mb*1), 40x cdrom, 10gb hd, 56k modem, pci nic...make offer #5 -HP Netserver pII 300/333, ram, no HD, cdrom, nic....i need check the specifics on this email if interested...(received as payment for a job) Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From drue at therub.org Wed May 25 17:11:57 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Wed May 25 17:12:48 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] serial switches Message-ID: <20050525221157.GJ54846@therub.org> Heyo, I'm moving half a dozen servers to a new colo.. the old colo had KVMs set up, but the new place doesn't. Since all of our servers are *nix, i figured i should be able to set up serial access to them all for much cheaper and more featureful (remote access!) than KVMs. Anyone have good product suggestions or advise for such a configuration? I've never set up serial access before, and don't really know where to start.. tia, dan From scotjenkins at gmail.com Wed May 25 17:42:02 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Wed May 25 17:42:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] serial switches In-Reply-To: <20050525221157.GJ54846@therub.org> References: <20050525221157.GJ54846@therub.org> Message-ID: On 5/25/05, Dan Rue wrote: > I'm moving half a dozen servers to a new colo.. the old colo had KVMs > set up, but the new place doesn't. Since all of our servers are *nix, i > figured i should be able to set up serial access to them all for much > cheaper and more featureful (remote access!) than KVMs. > > Anyone have good product suggestions or advise for such a configuration? > I've never set up serial access before, and don't really know where to > start.. I've worked with Cyclades[1] TS series console servers. The devices are usually 1U rack mountable with a bunch of RJ45 ports (8, 16, 24, 32 port models, possibly others). Use straight ethernet cables to a RJ45-to-DB9 or DB25 serial connector. The TS series allowed you to telnet or ssh to the Cyclades device and then you can connect to a specific console port via telnetting/sshing to localhost:port. It worked pretty well but they can be spendy. I've also worked with an older multi-port serial card (also Cyclades). Those tend to be a nightmare as you add more devices, you end up with an octopus of cabling. I'll dig up my pictures of how NOT to set this up... If you only have a few devices, you might look at a USB-to-Serial type of device if your hardware will support it. If you have the luxury to "try before you buy", do so. Some of these devices can be goofy and for serial access, you definitely want something reliable. As far as the OS side of things, it depends on what flavor of *nix you're dealing with. Solaris supports serial console by default if you don't have a keyboard plugged in (use serial port A). Linux and FreeBSD can be quite easily configured for serial access. There is a Serial HOWTO for Linux and the FreeBSD handbook is indespensible. Let us know what you end up using. [1] http://www.cyclades.com/ From drue at therub.org Wed May 25 18:10:20 2005 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Wed May 25 18:10:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] serial switches In-Reply-To: References: <20050525221157.GJ54846@therub.org> Message-ID: <20050525231020.GK54846@therub.org> On Wed, May 25, 2005 at 05:42:02PM -0500, Scot Jenkins wrote: > On 5/25/05, Dan Rue wrote: > > I'm moving half a dozen servers to a new colo.. the old colo had KVMs > > set up, but the new place doesn't. Since all of our servers are *nix, i > > figured i should be able to set up serial access to them all for much > > cheaper and more featureful (remote access!) than KVMs. > > > > Anyone have good product suggestions or advise for such a configuration? > > I've never set up serial access before, and don't really know where to > > start.. > > I've worked with Cyclades[1] TS series console servers. The devices > are usually 1U rack mountable with a bunch of RJ45 ports (8, 16, 24, > 32 port models, possibly others). Use straight ethernet cables to a > RJ45-to-DB9 or DB25 serial connector. The TS series allowed you to > telnet or ssh to the Cyclades device and then you can connect to a > specific console port via telnetting/sshing to localhost:port. It > worked pretty well but they can be spendy. > > I've also worked with an older multi-port serial card (also Cyclades). > Those tend to be a nightmare as you add more devices, you end up with > an octopus of cabling. I'll dig up my pictures of how NOT to set this > up... > > If you only have a few devices, you might look at a USB-to-Serial type > of device if your hardware will support it. > > If you have the luxury to "try before you buy", do so. Some of these > devices can be goofy and for serial access, you definitely want > something reliable. > > As far as the OS side of things, it depends on what flavor of *nix > you're dealing with. Solaris supports serial console by default if > you don't have a keyboard plugged in (use serial port A). Linux and > FreeBSD can be quite easily configured for serial access. There is a > Serial HOWTO for Linux and the FreeBSD handbook is indespensible. > > Let us know what you end up using. > > [1] http://www.cyclades.com/ Thanks Scot very interesting. I'm seeing lots of such devices like the Cyclades TS that just run linux internally and have a bunch of serial ports. Looks like for 8 ports they start at about $700 and go up quickly. So I think i'm looknig for a clean multi-port config. I found this device by doing a google search, and it looks perfect: http://www.digital-loggers.com/ss20.html What do you think? At least that would scale for the whole rack.. where as if i had to buy something more expensive i'd cheap out and just get an 8 port which may or may not be sufficient in 2 years. Set that up from one server connecting to all others. Then set up one of the others to access the first directly. If the firewall goes down i'm still SOL. So i guess just make the firewall the main guy and forget that secondary connection. Still better than KVM only - in which case if any machine went down i had to drive downtown. By the way, all boxes are freebsd (don't stone me! i've run linux.. uhh, before..) Dan From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed May 25 18:10:51 2005 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Wed May 25 18:16:49 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] serial switches In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 May 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote: > As far as the OS side of things, it depends on what flavor of *nix > you're dealing with. Solaris supports serial console by default if > you don't have a keyboard plugged in (use serial port A). Linux and > FreeBSD can be quite easily configured for serial access. Actually, that's more of a SPARC-ism than a Solaris-ism. It's a feature of the firmware; my Linux/SPARC machines do the same thing, and I imagine BSD supports it just fine, too. (Does Solaris support it so easily on x86?) Jima From scotjenkins at gmail.com Wed May 25 18:41:26 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Wed May 25 18:42:50 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] serial switches In-Reply-To: <20050525231020.GK54846@therub.org> References: <20050525221157.GJ54846@therub.org> <20050525231020.GK54846@therub.org> Message-ID: On 5/25/05, Dan Rue wrote: > So I think i'm looknig for a clean multi-port config. I found this > device by doing a google search, and it looks perfect: > http://www.digital-loggers.com/ss20.html > > What do you think? At least that would scale for the whole rack.. where > as if i had to buy something more expensive i'd cheap out and just get > an 8 port which may or may not be sufficient in 2 years. It looks pretty nice. I'd definitely take advantage of that 15 day free trial to be sure it fits your needs. > Set that up from one server connecting to all others. Then set up one > of the others to access the first directly. If the firewall goes down > i'm still SOL. So i guess just make the firewall the main guy and > forget that secondary connection. Still better than KVM only - in which > case if any machine went down i had to drive downtown. If you run Cisco firewalls/routers, you can use the AUX port to get console to another device. One of our network admins did that so he could get console on the firewall via the outside router (if a firewall config change somehow locked us out). > By the way, all boxes are freebsd (don't stone me! i've run linux.. > uhh, before..) I suspected that :) Setting up the serial console on FreeBSD is much easier than Linux IMO. The FreeBSD handbook should have all the info you need. If you get stuck, email me off list. Scot From scotjenkins at gmail.com Wed May 25 21:40:16 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Wed May 25 21:42:51 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] serial switches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/25/05, Jima wrote: > On Wed, 25 May 2005, Scot Jenkins wrote: > > As far as the OS side of things, it depends on what flavor of *nix > > you're dealing with. Solaris supports serial console by default if > > you don't have a keyboard plugged in (use serial port A). Linux and > > FreeBSD can be quite easily configured for serial access. > > Actually, that's more of a SPARC-ism than a Solaris-ism. It's a feature > of the firmware; my Linux/SPARC machines do the same thing, and I imagine > BSD supports it just fine, too. (Does Solaris support it so easily on > x86?) yup, you're right, it is s SPARC thang. I've never tried it on Solaris x86. From leif.t.johnson at gmail.com Wed May 25 23:30:36 2005 From: leif.t.johnson at gmail.com (Leif Johnson) Date: Wed May 25 23:32:52 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 802.11g pci wireless card Message-ID: What is an inexpensive wireless card that is linux compatible and is available in the metro area? Desktop computer so pci is ideal. 802.11g. I am running gentoo with a 2.6 kernel (so no, recompiling my kernel wouldn't bother me). leif From bhartm at visi.com Thu May 26 00:00:40 2005 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Wed May 25 23:52:53 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] May need old hardware In-Reply-To: <4293E843.3020406@visi.com> References: <20050524164909.1393F3E24@skuld.wookimus.net> <42939148.9040805@beitsahour.net> <20050525015553.GA24709@mail.penguinpackets.com> <4293E843.3020406@visi.com> Message-ID: <429557F8.2030604@visi.com> Again, in the spirit of letting these things live, I have a complete mid-tower DEC PC Pentium(r) that takes 40-pin ram. 8 slots. I think I got it up to 128M. Again, email if you want it. I think it has NetWare 5.0 installed. whatever. It has 4 ISA slots with 2 or 3 staggered PCI slots. I'll gladly include a 3c509 if you need one. Bob Hartmann wrote: > > I have a mini-tower 386 cloney thing you can have for nothin. Has all > the cloney parts-- I/O IDE and com controller, maybe ~300MB HDD, and > probably a modem too. WfW preinstalled... I snagged it from work in > '96 because it was the fastest 386 I'd ever seen. (I'm keeping the > Apple ][+ and Commodore.) > email if anyone's interested. > Kelly Black wrote: > >> On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 03:40:40PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote: >> >> >>> Chad Walstrom wrote: >>> >>> >>>> We've got a slight situation at CBS. Without getting into too much >>>> detail, I'm looking for an old, working ATA or possibly MFM hard >>>> drive. We're talking circa '91 or so. With that in mind, we may also >>>> need to replace the entire machine, in which case we'ld need something >>>> with at least three ISA slots and can run some old, decrepit version >>>> of DOS. (This thing has a Y2k card in it, even!) >>>> >>>> Anyway, let me know if you fellow pack rats might have something along >>>> those lines. You can email me directly, off the list. >>>> >>> >> No can do. Something as valuable as a 386 is a must keep. I do have a >> spare Timex/Sinclair 1000 though :-) >> >> 73's de >> Kelly >> KB0GBJ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list@mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From cschumann at twp-llc.com Thu May 26 09:03:10 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Thu May 26 09:05:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Re: serial switches In-Reply-To: <200505260449.j4Q4nHOs031138@localhost.localdomain> References: <200505260449.j4Q4nHOs031138@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9696.192.28.2.17.1117116190.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> > Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 17:11:57 -0500 > From: Dan Rue > Anyone have good product suggestions or advise for such a configuration? Dan, I worked at Digi x number of years ago. They make multi-port serial solutions that scale very well. So well that IBM private labels (-ed?) them and sold them with their big iron servers. That means IBM testing labs ran them through the wringer. They work like a dream-- MUCH better under heavy loads than other solutions. They are a local company. The hardware runs on gobs of OSes. And sometimes, you can get the hardware pretty cheap used. The city of Minneapolis 911 system uses them, so when you call in, the operator's keystrokes all go through Digi equipment. I worked in their call center and the Digi devices just never fail. They run on MP-RAS (NCR's Unix). From tclug at natecarlson.com Thu May 26 10:06:46 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu May 26 10:08:58 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally? Message-ID: Anyone happen to have some Qlogic QLA2200 FC HBA's (with the copper interface) sitting around that they want to get rid of, or know of some place that sells them cheap (<$40/ea, I'm hoping)? I need 4-5 of them to play with for my personal servers. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From florin at iucha.net Thu May 26 11:02:06 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu May 26 11:02:59 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> On Thu, May 26, 2005 at 10:06:46AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > Anyone happen to have some Qlogic QLA2200 FC HBA's (with the copper > interface) sitting around that they want to get rid of, or know of some > place that sells them cheap (<$40/ea, I'm hoping)? I need 4-5 of them to > play with for my personal servers. Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. Example questions: - what kind of cables do they need? - do I need a switch? if not, how do I chain them? Thank you, florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050526/455986bc/attachment.pgp From natecars at natecarlson.com Thu May 26 11:46:43 2005 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu May 26 11:49:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally? In-Reply-To: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was > interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. Not really - I just picked up a couple JBOD's from a fellow list member, and played around on that for awhile. Now, I'm picking up a real array, and am going to try to use it as shared storage between the boxes. > Example questions: > - what kind of cables do they need? Depends - you can either do copper or fiber for fibre channel. For copper, in my limited experience, most HBA's have HSSDC connectors, switches either have DB9 or HSSDC, and arrays generally use DB9 for the host connector. So, for host<->switch, you either need hssdc<->hssdc or hssdc<->db9, and for host<->array, you generally need hssdc<->db9. I haven't used the fiber option, but I understand it's just standard fiber patch cables. > - do I need a switch? if not, how do I chain them? If you want to hook multiple devices to one port, you need a switch. Otherwise, you can generally go direct. (As I understand it, this varies by implementation.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From florin at iucha.net Thu May 26 12:06:01 2005 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu May 26 12:07:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally? In-Reply-To: References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050526170601.GY15527@iucha.net> On Thu, May 26, 2005 at 11:46:43AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > Not really - I just picked up a couple JBOD's from a fellow list member, > and played around on that for awhile. Now, I'm picking up a real array, > and am going to try to use it as shared storage between the boxes. Cool! > >Example questions: > > - what kind of cables do they need? > > Depends - you can either do copper or fiber for fibre channel. For copper, > in my limited experience, most HBA's have HSSDC connectors, switches > either have DB9 or HSSDC, and arrays generally use DB9 for the host > connector. > > So, for host<->switch, you either need hssdc<->hssdc or hssdc<->db9, and > for host<->array, you generally need hssdc<->db9. > > I haven't used the fiber option, but I understand it's just standard fiber > patch cables. > > > - do I need a switch? if not, how do I chain them? > > If you want to hook multiple devices to one port, you need a switch. If I want to connect three computers to an array, do I need a switch? Does an array have a single port? (+ see below) > Otherwise, you can generally go direct. (As I understand it, this varies > by implementation.) I remember something about an "Arbitrated Loop" where the computers and storage sit in a circle and pass a pipe ;) Can I do that with copper, or do I need something optical? florin -- Don't question authority: they don't know either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20050526/a53c62b9/attachment.pgp From nate at refried.org Thu May 26 12:14:57 2005 From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz) Date: Thu May 26 12:17:00 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally? In-Reply-To: <20050526170601.GY15527@iucha.net> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> <20050526170601.GY15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: <20050526171457.GA18931@refried.org> On Thu, May 26, 2005 at 12:06:01PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, May 26, 2005 at 11:46:43AM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > > > - do I need a switch? if not, how do I chain them? > > > > If you want to hook multiple devices to one port, you need a switch. > > If I want to connect three computers to an array, do I need a switch? > Does an array have a single port? (+ see below) It depends on the array. If the array as three host ports then you don't need a switch. If it doesn't, you will need a switch. Nate From natecars at natecarlson.com Thu May 26 12:28:52 2005 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu May 26 12:31:00 2005 Subject: How does Fibre Channel work? [Was: Re: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally?] In-Reply-To: <20050526170601.GY15527@iucha.net> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> <20050526170601.GY15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > If I want to connect three computers to an array, do I need a switch? > Does an array have a single port? (+ see below) Again, this is from my limited experience. All of the arrays I've worked with have two ports, which both connect you to the same loop. However, I know there are arrays with more ports, and arrays with only single ports. > I remember something about an "Arbitrated Loop" where the computers and > storage sit in a circle and pass a pipe ;) Can I do that with copper, or > do I need something optical? Quick google search: http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/fcp.html Doesn't explain it all that well, but as I understand it, the switch or hub is what allows your computer to connect to the loop of drives. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong! :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tletofsky at umwcs.com Thu May 26 13:13:47 2005 From: tletofsky at umwcs.com (Ted S. Letofsky) Date: Thu May 26 13:15:02 2005 Subject: How does Fibre Channel work? [Was: Re: [tclug-list] Source forQLA2200's locally?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005f01c5621e$af57e080$cd02a8c0@INSPIRON8500> Hey all, Fibre channel at the drive level is a single 40 pin copper connector. However, unlike scsi, you don't often see single backplane devices to plug the drives into. That 40 pin connector supports two logical and physical "loops". So... Fibre devices (be it a jbod or an array or raid) often have two ports, an "A" port and a "B" port built into them. There is a 1GB standard and a 2GB standard (4GB and 10GB are already on the roadmap and/or in limited production for switches and cards and drives) You can have up to 126 devices on a fibre bus in "loop" mode (arbitrated loop) and then it acts like scsi but can be set up to "self configure" or you can use the chassis for drives to "SET" the loop id, aka the "ALPA" There is also a "fabric" mode where everything gets identified by it's "world wide name", which is the fibre channel equivalent of a MAC address. Then the basic limit is 16 million addresses. You can do fabric mode with arrays and raids and libraries, but not easily with regular jbod or disk drives connected to cards because in that limited environment. There are fibre channel hubs, and fibre channel switches, and both concepts are exactly the same as in ethernet, and for basically the same reasons. However, almost all switches in fibre channel are managed for zoning, etc... The interface, (copper or glass) makes no difference for fabric or loop mode (you will also here people say "point to point" mode which is fabric negotiation even in a "loop" topology, like when plugging a fibre channel raid directly into a server card. The 1GB fibre standard for copper was/is either a db9 connector with 4 pins uses, or an HSSDC connector, which looks more like a squished and wider ethernet port. The optical 1GB fibre standard looks the same as the original optical 1GB standard for ethernet, and is called an "SC" connector. The 2GB standard for optical is called LP, and is about 1/3rd the size, and uses the same style of connectors that the newest optical ethernet does, although the ports and cards and switches themselves are not usually interchangeable. There is a copper standard for 2GB but is rarely used and called HSSDC2. The last confusing thing is that some cards and switches and chassis use EMBEDDED ports and some use removable/replaceable ports. In 1GB, they call them "GBIC"s, and for 2GB they are called "SFP"s So, the fibre standard allows for "daisy chaining" like SCSI does. As long as you have fewer than 126 devices on the loop. That doesn't mean you'll get good performance. Raids count as ONE device on a loop, if connected in loop mode. In general, if you are going to do LOOP things, you try to keep 16 or so devices on the bus. If you want lots of devices, use a hub. If you want/need more bandwidth, use a switch and/or use more fibre host adapters. Ted Letofsky -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Nate Carlson Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:29 PM To: Florin Iucha Cc: tclug-list@mn-linux.org Subject: How does Fibre Channel work? [Was: Re: [tclug-list] Source forQLA2200's locally?] On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > If I want to connect three computers to an array, do I need a switch? > Does an array have a single port? (+ see below) Again, this is from my limited experience. All of the arrays I've worked with have two ports, which both connect you to the same loop. However, I know there are arrays with more ports, and arrays with only single ports. > I remember something about an "Arbitrated Loop" where the computers > and > storage sit in a circle and pass a pipe ;) Can I do that with copper, or > do I need something optical? Quick google search: http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/fcp.html Doesn't explain it all that well, but as I understand it, the switch or hub is what allows your computer to connect to the loop of drives. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong! :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at natecarlson.com Thu May 26 13:15:34 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Thu May 26 13:17:02 2005 Subject: How does Fibre Channel work? [Was: Re: [tclug-list] Source forQLA2200's locally?] In-Reply-To: <005f01c5621e$af57e080$cd02a8c0@INSPIRON8500> References: <005f01c5621e$af57e080$cd02a8c0@INSPIRON8500> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 May 2005, Ted S. Letofsky wrote: > Thanks for the good overview! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From josh at joshwelch.com Thu May 26 13:29:59 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (josh@joshwelch.com) Date: Thu May 26 13:31:02 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Source for QLA2200's locally? In-Reply-To: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: <1117132199.429615a7a1350@joshwelch.com> Quoting Florin Iucha : > > Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was > interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. Hmmm, I don't know about something like an FC how to or similar. > Example questions: > - what kind of cables do they need? Depends on the HBA(Host Bus Adaptor) that you use. Some are copper and some are glass. > - do I need a switch? if not, how do I chain them? You can direct attach Fiber Channel devices, i.e. if you had one server that you wanted to connect to one array. If you wanted multiple servers talking to a single array then you would need a switch. I think some devices are capable of daisy chaining in a fashion similar to SCSI devices, I think Apple's X-Serve can be set up this way. From smac at visi.com Thu May 26 14:43:10 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Thu May 26 14:55:02 2005 Subject: How does Fibre Channel work? [Was: Re: [tclug-list] Source forQLA2200's locally?] In-Reply-To: <005f01c5621e$af57e080$cd02a8c0@INSPIRON8500> References: <005f01c5621e$af57e080$cd02a8c0@INSPIRON8500> Message-ID: <429626CE.80600@visi.com> That is one great explanation of fiber. Last time I worked with fiber it was 100mb RAID with a couple of cabinets for storage. My brain hurts thinking about what is happening now. Sam. Ted S. Letofsky wrote: >Hey all, > >Fibre channel at the drive level is a single 40 pin copper connector. >However, unlike scsi, you don't often see single backplane devices to plug >the drives into. > >That 40 pin connector supports two logical and physical "loops". > >So... > >Fibre devices (be it a jbod or an array or raid) often have two ports, an >"A" port and a "B" port built into them. > >There is a 1GB standard and a 2GB standard (4GB and 10GB are already on the >roadmap and/or in limited production for switches and cards and drives) > >You can have up to 126 devices on a fibre bus in "loop" mode (arbitrated >loop) and then it acts like scsi but can be set up to "self configure" or >you can use the chassis for drives to "SET" the loop id, aka the "ALPA" > >There is also a "fabric" mode where everything gets identified by it's >"world wide name", which is the fibre channel equivalent of a MAC address. > >Then the basic limit is 16 million addresses. > >You can do fabric mode with arrays and raids and libraries, but not easily >with regular jbod or disk drives connected to cards because in that limited >environment. > >There are fibre channel hubs, and fibre channel switches, and both concepts >are exactly the same as in ethernet, and for basically the same reasons. >However, almost all switches in fibre channel are managed for zoning, etc... > >The interface, (copper or glass) makes no difference for fabric or loop mode >(you will also here people say "point to point" mode which is fabric >negotiation even in a "loop" topology, like when plugging a fibre channel >raid directly into a server card. > >The 1GB fibre standard for copper was/is either a db9 connector with 4 pins >uses, or an HSSDC connector, which looks more like a squished and wider >ethernet port. > >The optical 1GB fibre standard looks the same as the original optical 1GB >standard for ethernet, and is called an "SC" connector. > >The 2GB standard for optical is called LP, and is about 1/3rd the size, and >uses the same style of connectors that the newest optical ethernet does, >although the ports and cards and switches themselves are not usually >interchangeable. > >There is a copper standard for 2GB but is rarely used and called HSSDC2. > >The last confusing thing is that some cards and switches and chassis use >EMBEDDED ports and some use removable/replaceable ports. >In 1GB, they call them "GBIC"s, and for 2GB they are called "SFP"s > > > >So, the fibre standard allows for "daisy chaining" like SCSI does. >As long as you have fewer than 126 devices on the loop. That doesn't mean >you'll get good performance. >Raids count as ONE device on a loop, if connected in loop mode. > >In general, if you are going to do LOOP things, you try to keep 16 or so >devices on the bus. >If you want lots of devices, use a hub. >If you want/need more bandwidth, use a switch and/or use more fibre host >adapters. > >Ted Letofsky > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org >[mailto:tclug-list-bounces@mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Nate Carlson >Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:29 PM >To: Florin Iucha >Cc: tclug-list@mn-linux.org >Subject: How does Fibre Channel work? [Was: Re: [tclug-list] Source >forQLA2200's locally?] > > >On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > > >>If I want to connect three computers to an array, do I need a switch? >>Does an array have a single port? (+ see below) >> >> > >Again, this is from my limited experience. > >All of the arrays I've worked with have two ports, which both connect you >to the same loop. However, I know there are arrays with more ports, and >arrays with only single ports. > > > >>I remember something about an "Arbitrated Loop" where the computers >>and >>storage sit in a circle and pass a pipe ;) Can I do that with copper, or >>do I need something optical? >> >> > >Quick google search: > >http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/fcp.html > >Doesn't explain it all that well, but as I understand it, the switch or >hub is what allows your computer to connect to the loop of drives. > >Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong! :) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >| nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | >| depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu May 26 22:50:22 2005 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu May 26 22:51:07 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DVD Burning Message-ID: Hey guys, I just tried burning a DVD on my Linux box for the first time (I'm trying to burn a Solaris 10 DVD which is downloadable for free form Sun). I just assumed that cdrecord would do it, since it mentions that it'll burn CD/DVDs in the man pages. Apparently it doesn't, though. Looks like you have to go hop through some hoops to get a version that does. Which is annoying. What do you guys use to burn DVDs? Preferably something I can apt-get (; -Yaron -- From justin.kremer at gmail.com Fri May 27 01:17:02 2005 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Fri May 27 01:17:08 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DVD Burning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27e6356a05052623171d4b5c3b@mail.gmail.com> > Which is annoying. What do you guys use to burn DVDs? Preferably something > I can apt-get (; iirc, apt-get install dvdrtools I believe that dvd+rw-tools can be a helpful package as well. -- Justin Kremer "The man who sets out to carry a cat by its tail learns something that will always be useful and which never will grow dim or doubtful." - Mark Twain From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri May 27 01:19:55 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Fri May 27 01:21:10 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet In-Reply-To: (message from Nate Carlson on Thu, 26 May 2005 11:46:43 -0500 (CDT)) References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> Message-ID: <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was > interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the June issue of Linux Journal. At least for new equipment, AoE network devices will be a about 1/10 the cost of FC devices. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From rwh at visi.com Fri May 27 05:47:07 2005 From: rwh at visi.com (Richard Hoffbeck) Date: Fri May 27 05:49:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DVD Burning In-Reply-To: <27e6356a05052623171d4b5c3b@mail.gmail.com> References: <27e6356a05052623171d4b5c3b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4296FAAB.5090504@visi.com> I just went through this to get my backups to DVD working. There are patches available to make cdrecord work with DVD writers but I'm not all that fond of the SCSI emulation required to make that work. If all you want to do is burn an ISO there is a command line utility called growisofs that makes the whole burning process fairly easy - including being able to write diretly to an IDE device. The usual GUIs have wrappers for the dvdtools as well. --rick Justin Kremer wrote: >>Which is annoying. What do you guys use to burn DVDs? Preferably something >>I can apt-get (; >> >> > >iirc, apt-get install dvdrtools >I believe that dvd+rw-tools can be a helpful package as well. > > > From jus at krytosvirus.com Fri May 27 06:39:22 2005 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Fri May 27 06:41:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] DVD Burning In-Reply-To: <13278144.1117191140301.JavaMail.root@sniper10> References: <27e6356a05052623171d4b5c3b@mail.gmail.com> <13278144.1117191140301.JavaMail.root@sniper10> Message-ID: <200505270639.23829.jus@krytosvirus.com> K3B is a great CD/DVD burning GUI for burning. I have burned TONS of CDs and DVDs with it. Also with 2.6 kernels you do not need SCSI emulation, you can just access the IDE drive directly, no problemo. I've never used Debian but I predict there is a package for K3B in Debian. On Friday 27 May 2005 05:47 am, Richard Hoffbeck wrote: > I just went through this to get my backups to DVD working. There are > patches available to make cdrecord work with DVD writers but I'm not all > that fond of the SCSI emulation required to make that work. If all you > want to do is burn an ISO there is a command line utility called > growisofs that makes the whole burning process fairly easy - including > being able to write diretly to an IDE device. The usual GUIs have > wrappers for the dvdtools as well. > > --rick > > Justin Kremer wrote: > >>Which is annoying. What do you guys use to burn DVDs? Preferably > >> something I can apt-get (; > > > >iirc, apt-get install dvdrtools > >I believe that dvd+rw-tools can be a helpful package as well. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at natecarlson.com Fri May 27 11:10:24 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Fri May 27 11:13:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Anyone interested in some colo space? Message-ID: Looking for a few people who are interested in colocating one (or more) 1U servers at a reasonable rate. Contact me offlist for more info. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From cschumann at twp-llc.com Fri May 27 12:06:15 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Fri May 27 12:07:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Home network cabling In-Reply-To: <200505271654.j4RGs5uX000705@delta.twp-llc.com> References: <200505271654.j4RGs5uX000705@delta.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> I'm considering adding a wired network to my house. It's more secure and MUCH faster than WiFi. What category should be use for FULL SPEED gigabit networking? I've read that Cat5 and even Cat5E won't quite do the job. What will do it, how much might it cost and where can I get it? Home Depot has Cat5E in bulk, but I would hate to be limited to 100BaseT. Chris Schumann From josh at joshwelch.com Fri May 27 12:10:57 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Fri May 27 12:13:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <429754A1.4010308@joshwelch.com> Ken Fuchs wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > >>Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was >>interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. > > > Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over > Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of > Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the > June issue of Linux Journal. > > At least for new equipment, AoE network devices will be a about 1/10 the > cost of FC devices. > > Sincerely, > > Ken Fuchs > Call me cynical, but it looks to me like ATA over Ethernet appears to be a standard invented by one vendor and implemented by one vendor, who also happened to write the article for Linux Journal (or Linux Magazine, can't remeber what I read). From josh at joshwelch.com Fri May 27 12:18:51 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Fri May 27 12:19:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: <4297567B.3000007@joshwelch.com> Ken Fuchs wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: > >>Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was >>interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. > > > Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over > Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of > Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the > June issue of Linux Journal. > > At least for new equipment, AoE network devices will be a about 1/10 the > cost of FC devices. > > Sincerely, > > Ken Fuchs > Crap, hit send button too soon. Anyway, from what I've found ATA over Ethernet seems like a one horse show, which raises my suspicions somewhat. More interesting to me is iSCSI. I can see their arguments regarding the unnecessary additional overhead required by wrapping a storage protocol in TCP/IP when the disks are only 3 feet away, but it seems to me that it is simpler to wrap something in TCP/IP than to figure out a new transport layer without screwing it up. There is a pretty good Linux iSCSI target in development right now, http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=108475. I just wish I had sparkier hardware to really test it out against. From josh at joshwelch.com Fri May 27 12:31:38 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Fri May 27 12:33:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Home network cabling In-Reply-To: <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200505271654.j4RGs5uX000705@delta.twp-llc.com> <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <4297597A.8010901@joshwelch.com> Chris Schumann wrote: > I'm considering adding a wired network to my house. It's more secure and > MUCH faster than WiFi. > > What category should be use for FULL SPEED gigabit networking? I've read > that Cat5 and even Cat5E won't quite do the job. What will do it, how much > might it cost and where can I get it? > > Home Depot has Cat5E in bulk, but I would hate to be limited to 100BaseT. > > Chris Schumann > Cat 5e properly terminated should be able to do GigE. If you really want you can do Cat 6, I don't think there is a huge jump in cable cost. I know when we cabled our offices a couple of years ago the Cat 6 was a couple of cents a foot more expensive. That being said unless you have some serious hardware I wouldn't worry about doing "FULL SPEED gigabit networking". Most home computers would have a hard time filling a 10/100 link. It takes quite a bit of CPU power and a decent system bus to move data at gigabit speeds from the disk to memory to the network and back again. I've recently setup a dedicated GigE storage network for IP storage and backup traffic. The highest traffic I've seen so far at any sort of sustained rate was 120Mb/sec, that was from a dual 2.8GHz Xeon machine, although it is running Windows ;). Josh From cschumann at twp-llc.com Fri May 27 12:41:30 2005 From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann) Date: Fri May 27 12:43:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Home network cabling In-Reply-To: <4297597A.8010901@joshwelch.com> References: <200505271654.j4RGs5uX000705@delta.twp-llc.com> <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> <4297597A.8010901@joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <1694.192.28.2.17.1117215690.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> Josh Welch said: > That being said unless you have some serious hardware I wouldn't worry > about doing "FULL SPEED gigabit networking". Most home computers would > have a hard time filling a 10/100 link. It takes quite a bit of CPU > power and a decent system bus to move data at gigabit speeds from the > disk to memory to the network and back again. I've recently setup a > dedicated GigE storage network for IP storage and backup traffic. The > highest traffic I've seen so far at any sort of sustained rate was > 120Mb/sec, that was from a dual 2.8GHz Xeon machine, although it is > running Windows ;). > > Josh Windows!?! :) I'm sure you're right about current home computers. I just don't want to have to re-wire the house in five (or ten or n) years, when gigabit will be no sweat for some machines. I fully understand that 10G networks may be available then, but I want to buy cable this year, not wait for specs to settle out. Chris From natecars at natecarlson.com Fri May 27 12:54:27 2005 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Fri May 27 12:57:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Home network cabling In-Reply-To: <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200505271654.j4RGs5uX000705@delta.twp-llc.com> <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 May 2005, Chris Schumann wrote: > I'm considering adding a wired network to my house. It's more secure and > MUCH faster than WiFi. > > What category should be use for FULL SPEED gigabit networking? I've read > that Cat5 and even Cat5E won't quite do the job. What will do it, how > much might it cost and where can I get it? > > Home Depot has Cat5E in bulk, but I would hate to be limited to > 100BaseT. For distances in your home, you should be just fine with CAT5E. I'm running straight cat5, and have no problem with gige over it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri May 27 13:21:27 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Fri May 27 13:23:16 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet Message-ID: <200505271821.j4RILRAS014684@tundra.winternet.com> >>On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: >>>Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was >>>interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. >Ken Fuchs wrote: >>Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over >>Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of >>Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the >>June issue of Linux Journal. >>At least for new equipment, AoE network devices will be a about 1/10 the >>cost of FC devices. Josh Welch wrote: >Call me cynical, but it looks to me like ATA over Ethernet appears to be >a standard invented by one vendor and implemented by one vendor, who >also happened to write the article for Linux Journal (or Linux Magazine, >can't remember what I read). You are correct. Coraid (http://www.coraid.com/) created the standard and implemented the Linux device driver that is now included in the Torvalds (Vanilla) kernel. Currently, Coraid is the only company with a product that implements the required AoE hardware. The author of the Linux Magazine article works for Coraid. However, standards created by industry committees aren't necessary better than standards created by a single company. Also, the AoE standard is about as simple as possible, but not simpler. AoE appears to cost a tenth of SAN for those applications that don't need full SAN capabilities. Other companies are sure to make AoE hardware, unless Coraid ties things up with patents and royalties; I didn't check this aspect. All things considered, I still wouldn't mind exploring the possibilities of a new low cost technology like AoE. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From kfuchs at winternet.com Fri May 27 13:37:29 2005 From: kfuchs at winternet.com (Ken Fuchs) Date: Fri May 27 13:39:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet Message-ID: <200505271837.j4RIbT2c014809@tundra.winternet.com> >>On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: >>>Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was >>>interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. >Ken Fuchs wrote: >>Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over >>Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of >>Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the >>June issue of Linux Journal. >>At least for new equipment, AoE network devices will be a about 1/10 the >>cost of FC devices. Josh Welch wrote: >Anyway, from what I've found ATA over Ethernet seems like a one horse >show, which raises my suspicions somewhat. More interesting to me is >iSCSI. I can see their arguments regarding the unnecessary additional >overhead required by wrapping a storage protocol in TCP/IP when the >disks are only 3 feet away, but it seems to me that it is simpler to >wrap something in TCP/IP than to figure out a new transport layer >without screwing it up. >There is a pretty good Linux iSCSI target in development right now, >http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=108475. I just >wish I had sparkier hardware to really test it out against. iSCSI is fine technology, but the overhead of TCP/IP is huge. Please note that many consider iSCSI to be too slow and complicated. AoE is fast and simple, but may be too simple for many applications. On the other hand, there isn't a complete Linux solution for AoE clustering yet, so AoE is single node only for now. Sincerely, Ken Fuchs From jimstreit at northlans.com Fri May 27 13:39:43 2005 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (jimstreit@northlans.com) Date: Fri May 27 13:42:46 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Home network cabling In-Reply-To: <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> References: <200505271654.j4RGs5uX000705@delta.twp-llc.com> <48735.192.28.2.17.1117213575.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com> Message-ID: <20050527133943.m1c5degsozs4g0gg@webmail.northlans.com> You should be fine, especially at home where you aren't going to come close to the maximum distance limitations. This is from Intel's web site 1000Base-T The 1000Base-T Gigabit specification requires that you use CAT 5 UTP cabling or greater and it must be properly cabled using all four wiring pairs to operate at 1000Mbps. If you use lower grade cabling, or if all four wiring pairs are implemented incorrectly, you may get a connection, but you may also experience data loss or slow performance. You're limited to 100 meters between any two devices. From Control Cable's web site (http://www.controlcable.com/43041687.html) ... All of the hype obscures an important simple fact: Gigabit Ethernet (1000 Base-T) was designed to run on Cat 5 cable. That's right, plain old Cat 5... Quoting Chris Schumann : > I'm considering adding a wired network to my house. It's more secure and > MUCH faster than WiFi. > > What category should be use for FULL SPEED gigabit networking? I've read > that Cat5 and even Cat5E won't quite do the job. What will do it, how much > might it cost and where can I get it? > > Home Depot has Cat5E in bulk, but I would hate to be limited to 100BaseT. > > Chris Schumann > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu Fri May 27 20:55:05 2005 From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (David Alanis) Date: Fri May 27 20:55:21 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: CISCO Router Message-ID: <20050528015505392d09f43f@mail.smumn.edu> I was wondering if there's any one on the list that may have an older CISCO router for sale? Preferably a 2600? Please let me know. I'd rather ask the list first, then go look on e-bay! Thank you, Dave Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? -George Wallace "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!" From erikerik at gmail.com Sat May 28 08:19:50 2005 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Sat May 28 08:21:27 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: CISCO Router In-Reply-To: <20050528015505392d09f43f@mail.smumn.edu> References: <20050528015505392d09f43f@mail.smumn.edu> Message-ID: On 5/27/05, David Alanis wrote: > I was wondering if there's any one on the list that may have an older CISCO router for sale? > Preferably a 2600? Please let me know. I'd rather ask the list first, then go look on e-bay! This just came across mn.forsale yesterday. I contacted the guy, and it's a old 2500 - one of the ones with 1 AUI and 2 serial ports. Here's the original post: ------------------------------------------------------- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: FS/free data network gear Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:41:32 GMT From: meatchief@mn.rr.com (Meatchief) Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com Newsgroups: mn.forsale Cisco 2501 router: $25 (quantity 2) Baystack rack-mount 10base-T ethernet hub: free Andrew 8228 Token-ring MAU: free (quantity 3) 6-foot tall datacom cabinet (enclosed all sides and front & back doors, front door = smoked plexiglass): $25 Dave NE Mpls meatchief@mn.rr.com From rclark at lakesplus.com Sat May 28 08:48:03 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Sat May 28 08:47:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Dual Xeon - matching? Message-ID: For dual Xeon systems ... one always "wants" a matched set of CPUS ... I have always been under the impression that meant the same "stepping" number. Is that all there is to it? Or is there more to it than that? Many thanks in advance. Randy From josh at joshwelch.com Sat May 28 10:02:42 2005 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Sat May 28 10:03:29 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200505271821.j4RILRAS014684@tundra.winternet.com> References: <200505271821.j4RILRAS014684@tundra.winternet.com> Message-ID: <42988812.1030402@joshwelch.com> Ken Fuchs wrote: > > > You are correct. Coraid (http://www.coraid.com/) created the standard > and implemented the Linux device driver that is now included in the > Torvalds (Vanilla) kernel. Currently, Coraid is the only company with > a product that implements the required AoE hardware. The author of > the Linux Magazine article works for Coraid. > > However, standards created by industry committees aren't necessary > better than standards created by a single company. Also, the AoE > standard is about as simple as possible, but not simpler. > > AoE appears to cost a tenth of SAN for those applications that don't > need full SAN capabilities. > > Other companies are sure to make AoE hardware, unless Coraid ties > things up with patents and royalties; I didn't check this aspect. > > All things considered, I still wouldn't mind exploring the > possibilities of a new low cost technology like AoE. > > Sincerely, > > Ken Fuchs > I agree that standards standards committee's are not necessarily the end all and be all. I would love to have another low cost storage technology available, but my cynical side causes me to say humbug on anything new until I see evidence to the contrary. That being said, I'm going to look into it more and find out if it is something worthwhile or not. Josh From bhurt at spnz.org Sat May 28 10:21:47 2005 From: bhurt at spnz.org (Brian Hurt) Date: Sat May 28 10:19:28 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> References: <20050526160206.GX15527@iucha.net> <200505270619.j4R6JtX07273@ecstasy1.winternet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 May 2005, Ken Fuchs wrote: > On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: >> Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was >> interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. > > Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over > Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of > Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the > June issue of Linux Journal. First off, both of these statements are true: SCSI is dying, and SCSI is taking over. SCSI the hardware/electrical specification is dying, being eaten on the low end by the increasing sophistication of ATAPI/SATA drives, and on the high end by the decreasing cost and complexity of FC. On the other hand, SCSI the protocol is taking over. ATA is basically SCSI-over-IDE, and 99.999+% of the traffic going over all fibre channels is SCSI protocol. I have some reservations about iSCSI (SCSI over TCP/IP), especially when it's sold as ATA over TCP/IP. First of all, it sounds exactly like a standard invented by the marketing department to make managers feel good. They understand ATA, they understand TCP/IP- two great tastes that don't make you gag together! The other problem is that TCP/IP is not a reliable protocol, FC is. Ethernet also doesn't deal well with multiple devices trying to saturate a single link. What this means is that it'll work- right up until the point it doesn't... Brian From tclug at ryanorourke.org Sun May 29 07:34:54 2005 From: tclug at ryanorourke.org (Ryan O'Rourke) Date: Sun May 29 07:35:42 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: CISCO Router In-Reply-To: <20050528015505392d09f43f@mail.smumn.edu> References: <20050528015505392d09f43f@mail.smumn.edu> Message-ID: <4299B6EE.3080709@ryanorourke.org> David Alanis wrote: > I was wondering if there's any one on the list that may have an older CISCO router for sale? Preferably a 2600? Please let me know. I'd rather ask the list first, then go look on e-bay! Would you be interested in a 1720? From pt-becker at comcast.net Mon May 30 21:19:30 2005 From: pt-becker at comcast.net (ptbecker) Date: Mon May 30 21:20:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 Message-ID: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> I have an old lexmark printer I'm going to let go of and upgrade. I'm looking at 4 in 1 type printers (printer, copier, scanner, etc). Whats your favorite 4 in 1 you are using? Thanks - Pete From wilson at visi.com Mon May 30 21:36:05 2005 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Mon May 30 21:38:03 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 In-Reply-To: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> References: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> Message-ID: <84C208FF-CA66-4647-9420-F44E0F339925@visi.com> On May 30, 2005, at 9:19 PM, ptbecker wrote: > I have an old lexmark printer I'm going to let go of and upgrade. > I'm looking at 4 in 1 type printers (printer, copier, scanner, > etc). Whats your favorite 4 in 1 you are using? > Thanks - Pete I just bought a Brother MFC-7820N for $300. It's a laser printer and copier, B&W and color scanner, and fax. It also has a built-in network interface. I've only used it with OS X at this point, but there appears to be at least some Linux support. http://solutions.brother.com/linux/sol/printer/linux/lpr_drivers.html -Tim -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto: wilson@visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org From scotjenkins at gmail.com Mon May 30 21:59:55 2005 From: scotjenkins at gmail.com (Scot Jenkins) Date: Mon May 30 22:00:04 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 In-Reply-To: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> References: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 5/30/05, ptbecker wrote: > I have an old lexmark printer I'm going to let go of and upgrade. I'm > looking at 4 in 1 type printers (printer, copier, scanner, etc). Whats > your favorite 4 in 1 you are using? > Thanks - Pete I'll second Tim's Brother recommendation but with a different model: MFC-8840DN; it too is networked and duplexes, faxes, copies, scans, etc. Nice printer. scot From tclug at neigebauer.com Tue May 31 07:57:57 2005 From: tclug at neigebauer.com (Ben) Date: Tue May 31 07:58:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fibre Channel; ATA/SATA over Ethernet In-Reply-To: <200505271837.j4RIbT2c014809@tundra.winternet.com> References: <200505271837.j4RIbT2c014809@tundra.winternet.com> Message-ID: <429C5F55.3010803@neigebauer.com> I think the best blend would be i SCSI connected to the server, with AoE providing storage to a box that will handle the RAID, LVMs etc. Server---->i SCSI----->Linux Aggregator------->AoE Storage Ken Fuchs wrote: >>>On Thu, 26 May 2005, Florin Iucha wrote: >>> >>> > > > >>>>Do you have any links/references/howto on using Fiber Channel? I was >>>>interested in the same thing, but I did not find any good references. >>>> >>>> > > > >>Ken Fuchs wrote: >> >> > > > >>>Rather than using Fibre Channel (FC), one might consider ATA/SATA over >>>Ethernet (AoE). There's a good article on AoE in the June issue of >>>Linux Magazine. There's also a less technical article on AoE in the >>>June issue of Linux Journal. >>> >>> > > > >>>At least for new equipment, AoE network devices will be a about 1/10 the >>>cost of FC devices. >>> >>> > >Josh Welch wrote: > > > >>Anyway, from what I've found ATA over Ethernet seems like a one horse >>show, which raises my suspicions somewhat. More interesting to me is >>iSCSI. I can see their arguments regarding the unnecessary additional >>overhead required by wrapping a storage protocol in TCP/IP when the >>disks are only 3 feet away, but it seems to me that it is simpler to >>wrap something in TCP/IP than to figure out a new transport layer >>without screwing it up. >> >> > > > >>There is a pretty good Linux iSCSI target in development right now, >>http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=108475. I just >>wish I had sparkier hardware to really test it out against. >> >> > >iSCSI is fine technology, but the overhead of TCP/IP is huge. Please >note that many consider iSCSI to be too slow and complicated. AoE is >fast and simple, but may be too simple for many applications. On the >other hand, there isn't a complete Linux solution for AoE clustering >yet, so AoE is single node only for now. > >Sincerely, > >Ken Fuchs > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list@mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From dru at druswanderings.net Tue May 31 09:50:07 2005 From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru) Date: Tue May 31 09:52:11 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 In-Reply-To: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> References: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> Message-ID: <429C799F.1070105@druswanderings.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ptbecker wrote: > > Whats your favorite 4 in 1 you are using? > If you're not set on a laser, I've been using an Epson CX5400 that works beautifully OoTB with Ubuntu 'Hoary'. - -- The Wandering Dru GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F http://www.druswanderings.net Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store! http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCnHmfiwhv4FBqkV8RAlEtAJsFddU6644RIrgaoZvjh8k5b0mjewCfVzq0 qnKY0mcPGDcS8gOucwhd5so= =CmYs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scheides at iexposure.com Tue May 31 10:41:12 2005 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Tue May 31 10:42:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Dual Xeon - matching? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200505311041.12481.scheides@iexposure.com> Each cpu should have a serial number on it. With xeons or other cpus, it's always ideal to get two cpus with the same batch code and an incremental serial number, i.e. cpu0=serial#1122445, cpu1=serial#1122446 (or whatever). -- Chris Scheidecker Associate Systems Administrator cscheidecker@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com 612.676.1946 x33 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ From scheides at iexposure.com Tue May 31 10:40:50 2005 From: scheides at iexposure.com (Chris Scheidecker) Date: Tue May 31 10:42:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 In-Reply-To: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> References: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200505311040.50859.scheides@iexposure.com> I have a HP PSC 1300 series multi-function (the 1325 model, I believe) that I have been particularly impressed with. I use it at home somewhat sporadically, but it has served me better than any other inkjet I've personally owned. Price was right too, about $100 @ best buy. -- Chris Scheidecker Associate Systems Administrator cscheidecker@iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com 612.676.1946 x33 Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services ------------------------------------------ From smac at visi.com Tue May 31 11:25:17 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 31 11:38:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Dual Xeon - matching? In-Reply-To: <200505311041.12481.scheides@iexposure.com> References: <200505311041.12481.scheides@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <429C8FED.5040900@visi.com> While the "batch code" (stepping) is very important, the serial number is not as important. The stepping tells you the microcode version burnt on to the chip. If you get a mismatched set of processors they may work but I wouldn't bet the bank on how reliable they would be. The serial number is a tracking number and may tell you where and when the chip was made. Just because the serial number is within a few digits it doesn't mean the stepping is the same. Use the stepping to measure the compatibility. Sam. Chris Scheidecker wrote: >Each cpu should have a serial number on it. With xeons or other cpus, it's >always ideal to get two cpus with the same batch code and an incremental >serial number, i.e. cpu0=serial#1122445, cpu1=serial#1122446 (or whatever). > > > > From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue May 31 11:50:47 2005 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue May 31 11:52:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Dual Xeon - matching? In-Reply-To: <429C8FED.5040900@visi.com> References: <200505311041.12481.scheides@iexposure.com> <429C8FED.5040900@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > While the "batch code" (stepping) is very important, the serial number > is not as important. > > The stepping tells you the microcode version burnt on to the chip. If > you get a mismatched set of processors they may work but I wouldn't bet > the bank on how reliable they would be. > > The serial number is a tracking number and may tell you where and when > the chip was made. > > Just because the serial number is within a few digits it doesn't mean > the stepping is the same. > > Use the stepping to measure the compatibility. Is it possible to specify stepping codes when placing an order? Is it possible to get the stepping code from a chip without opening the case and looking at the chip? If I do have to look at the CPU chip, how do I know which number is the stepping code? Thanks. Mike From smac at visi.com Tue May 31 12:30:26 2005 From: smac at visi.com (Sam MacDonald) Date: Tue May 31 12:42:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Dual Xeon - matching? In-Reply-To: References: <200505311041.12481.scheides@iexposure.com> <429C8FED.5040900@visi.com> Message-ID: <429C9F32.40707@visi.com> The best way to determine the stepping of a chip is to look at the Intel website and find the sSpec# for the processor you have. Compare the numbers on the chip to the numbers on the web site. http://processorfinder.intel.com [ READ the "Glossary of terms" link on the web site.] If you have 2 processors where the sSpec# is the same the stepping should be correct. In fact you will find the sSpec# on the chip not the "Core Stepping". The sSpec# has been called the "stepping" number incorrectly. I'm unaware of a way to get the stepping of a processor without looking at it. If you contact a vendor you need to be sure they know what you are asking. If they don't you may have an issue, tell them you need to talk to someone who knows multi processor systems. Another way to do it is to order an HP/Compaq CPU kit with 2 processors. You can do this as long as the mother board has the VRM's on the board. (Voltage Regulating Modules) If you don't know contact the vendor of your motherboard. You will pay extra for a kit but you will be sure to get processors that will work. The Xeon MP is for multi processor systems, you may want to look at that processor for any future systems. Another concern is the number of pins the processor has, again use the sSpec#. Unless you have software that can take advantage of dual processors it may not improve performance. In a few cases the performance of the software could be less on a dual processor system. Remember licensing, if you are running (god forbid) MS SQL and have more then 1 processor, you must have a license for each processor in the machine. This is true with many software manufacturers. Sam. Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 31 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > >> While the "batch code" (stepping) is very important, the serial >> number is not as important. >> >> The stepping tells you the microcode version burnt on to the chip. If >> you get a mismatched set of processors they may work but I wouldn't >> bet the bank on how reliable they would be. >> >> The serial number is a tracking number and may tell you where and >> when the chip was made. >> >> Just because the serial number is within a few digits it doesn't mean >> the stepping is the same. >> >> Use the stepping to measure the compatibility. > > > > Is it possible to specify stepping codes when placing an order? > > Is it possible to get the stepping code from a chip without opening > the case and looking at the chip? > > If I do have to look at the CPU chip, how do I know which number is > the stepping code? > > Thanks. > > Mike > From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue May 31 13:00:14 2005 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue May 31 13:04:13 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Dual Xeon - matching? In-Reply-To: <429C9F32.40707@visi.com> References: <200505311041.12481.scheides@iexposure.com> <429C8FED.5040900@visi.com> <429C9F32.40707@visi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 May 2005, Sam MacDonald wrote: > I'm unaware of a way to get the stepping of a processor without looking > at it. natecars@knight:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 13 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.86GHz stepping : 8 I *believe* that's the proper stepping field. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From obelin23 at gmail.com Tue May 31 13:05:54 2005 From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O) Date: Tue May 31 13:06:12 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Belly Dancing Message-ID: <72278d105053111052b7f0920@mail.gmail.com> My wife, who is a belly dancer, brought this link to my attention. (I do live music for her group.) http://www.davina.us/news.html Seems like a natural fit to me. Charlie O From kdesigns at hutchtel.net Tue May 31 15:38:56 2005 From: kdesigns at hutchtel.net (Dwayne Kaelberer) Date: Tue May 31 15:36:14 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 References: <429BC9B2.6050002@comcast.net> <200505311040.50859.scheides@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <006c01c56620$c53b1f60$727dfea9@home1> Chris I'm interested in how you got the HP PSC 1300 working in linux . I'm pretty new and have Gentoo running at home . I also have an HP PSC , but the 1200 series . I have most everything but that and sound working. Dwayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Scheidecker" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] 4 in 1 > I have a HP PSC 1300 series multi-function (the 1325 model, I believe) that I > have been particularly impressed with. I use it at home somewhat > sporadically, but it has served me better than any other inkjet I've > personally owned. Price was right too, about $100 @ best buy. > > > -- > Chris Scheidecker > Associate Systems Administrator > cscheidecker@iexposure.com > Internet Exposure, Inc. > http://www.iexposure.com > > 612.676.1946 x33 > Web Development-Web Marketing-ISP Services > ------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list@mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From rclark at lakesplus.com Tue May 31 15:57:10 2005 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Tue May 31 15:56:15 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 3 - IBM Network 17 Setup Message-ID: I have an IBM Network 17 laser printer setup on a Suse 9 machine (parallel port). CUPS is installed, and I share it as a Samba resource from that machine. My windows machines have accessed it without a problem - implying that I get full functionality, what I am particularly interested in is duplexing. So ... windows boxes install a driver, connect to the printer no problem, duplex as desired. I recently installed Fedora Core 3 on a new machine. It is up and running and now I wanted to add printers to it. I go to add a cups printer on a network machine, I select the IBM Network 17 driver through the gui, print the test page and I assumed I was good to go. Issue: The duplexing feature does not work. I can select an option that allows for duplexing, but it does not work. (this feature is part of the driver - or so it appears). I have tried what is suppose to be the Lexmark equivalent driver and it does the same thing. Any thoughts on how to "fix" this issue? Probably in terms of settings in a printcap file or equiv.? I would like to start using this machine heavily, but it is annoying to not be able to print properly without having to swap back to a windows machine. Thanks in advance. Randy From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue May 31 19:10:58 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Tue May 31 19:12:18 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200506010010.j510AwT10027@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: SUN memory SUN 128 MB memory SUN P/N: 370-3797-01 2 x 64MB 3.3V ECC 50ns DIMM Option 7037 must install in pairs; pulled from a working Ultra5. Both sticks for $25/OBO SW Minneapolis Seller Email address: scotjenkins at gmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue May 31 23:21:43 2005 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Tue May 31 23:22:19 2005 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200506010421.j514Lh713196@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 3U rack mount case 3U rack mount case has 300W PS. Is suitable for ATX form factor. additional items for sale as well. Case can be sold with or without "guts" (900 MHz AMD, 256 MB RAM, Several SCSI drives). Case only is $150 OBO. email me for this or other items. Seller Email address: sales at bbwh dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi