From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 10:07:05 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:07:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
installations. So that you can install a package on multiple machines
with a single command.

I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
this. The guests are all CentOS.

I know SuSE/Novell used Red Carpet or something like that back in the
day. I figure at worst I'll just use SSH with keys to run yum commands
on each machine, but thought maybe there was a  more elegant solution
that someone here uses.

I tried google but failed when I realised that I couldn't come up with
precise search terms. google: software install linux.... doh! Yea, I'm
not feeling very creative right now.

Thanks,
Eric


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 10:25:42 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:25:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <20061101162035.GU62981@therub.org>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061101162035.GU62981@therub.org>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611010825x476e1b2dj7d9f3003d57ca32e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Dan. That's a very cool utility.

This is kind of my last option. I'm really hoping that there is
something out there that will help keep a "paper trail" of changes
hopefully via a SQL backend.

Eric

On 11/1/06, Dan Rue <drue at therub.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:07:05AM -0600, Eric Peterson wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
> > installations. So that you can install a package on multiple machines
> > with a single command.
>
> It's not exactly what you're looking for, but I use it constantly since
> I discovered it..  cluster ssh or cssh.  Allows you to ssh to any number
> of machines and run the same commands concurrently on each.  *very
> cool*.
>
> Dan
>


From nate at ima.umn.edu  Wed Nov  1 10:29:08 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:29:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4548CB54.8000602@ima.umn.edu>

This probably isn't quite the setup you need but we run Ubuntu here and
have configured our own in house Apt repository. Every night our update
script resyncs to our apt repo and pulls down new/upgraded packages. We
can roll out entire software packages with no problem.

We also built in a emergency feature that allows us to push out a change
sooner then the normal 4am update time. We build our own packages,
maintain our own apt server, and mirror the latest ubuntu dist site
every night.


Eric Peterson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
> installations. So that you can install a package on multiple machines
> with a single command.
>
> I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
> this. The guests are all CentOS.
>
> I know SuSE/Novell used Red Carpet or something like that back in the
> day. I figure at worst I'll just use SSH with keys to run yum commands
> on each machine, but thought maybe there was a  more elegant solution
> that someone here uses.
>
> I tried google but failed when I realised that I couldn't come up with
> precise search terms. google: software install linux.... doh! Yea, I'm
> not feeling very creative right now.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


-- 
==============================================
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
           http://www.ima.umn.edu/
==============================================
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications
University of Minnesota
400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463
============================================== 




From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Nov  1 10:32:23 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:32:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>

"Eric Peterson" <srcfoo at gmail.com>  wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
> installations. So that you can install a package on multiple
> machines with a single command.

cfengine 2.  Actually, I'm just starting to work on this.  I'm tired
of sshing things around.  It worked so nicely when I worked at the
IMA, and I've missed it ever since.  The number of boxes we need to
manage keeps rising, ssh pub/priv keys need to be managed, X.509 ssl
certs and keys need to be pushed.  Etc.

cfengine is one of the most effective ways to manage your network.
There's a bit of overhead and learning curve, but once it's in place,
you'll never understand why you tried to manage a network without it.

> I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
> this. The guests are all CentOS.

Create a Xen guest that acts as the cfengine master and the other
guests as clients.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From drue at therub.org  Wed Nov  1 10:20:35 2006
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:20:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061101162035.GU62981@therub.org>

On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:07:05AM -0600, Eric Peterson wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
> installations. So that you can install a package on multiple machines
> with a single command.

It's not exactly what you're looking for, but I use it constantly since
I discovered it..  cluster ssh or cssh.  Allows you to ssh to any number
of machines and run the same commands concurrently on each.  *very
cool*.

Dan


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 10:53:39 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:53:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611010853t1ff130fex2afee365761fe23a@mail.gmail.com>

Chad, this is what I was looking for. I couldn't think of the name,
but I think it was featured recently on NewsForge or something like
that.

Regards,
Eric

On 11/1/06, Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net> wrote:
> "Eric Peterson" <srcfoo at gmail.com>  wrote:
> > I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
> > installations. So that you can install a package on multiple
> > machines with a single command.
>
> cfengine 2.  Actually, I'm just starting to work on this.  I'm tired
> of sshing things around.  It worked so nicely when I worked at the
> IMA, and I've missed it ever since.  The number of boxes we need to
> manage keeps rising, ssh pub/priv keys need to be managed, X.509 ssl
> certs and keys need to be pushed.  Etc.
>
> cfengine is one of the most effective ways to manage your network.
> There's a bit of overhead and learning curve, but once it's in place,
> you'll never understand why you tried to manage a network without it.
>
> > I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
> > this. The guests are all CentOS.
>
> Create a Xen guest that acts as the cfengine master and the other
> guests as clients.
>
> --
> Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
>            assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Wed Nov  1 10:47:28 2006
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:47:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
Message-ID: <s5487b47.092@mdh-gw9.health.state.mn.us>

Eric,

If your needs are few, and you can create RPM packages, you can create
a "group" package that lists everything you wish to install as
dependencies. By releasing updated versions of this "group" package (in
you own custom yum repository) you can "remotely" add packages later
on.

If you find something off list, please let the list know. It sounds
interesting.

Troy

>>> "Eric Peterson" <srcfoo at gmail.com> 11/01/06 10:07 AM >>>
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
installations. So that you can install a package on multiple machines
with a single command.

I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
this. The guests are all CentOS.

I know SuSE/Novell used Red Carpet or something like that back in the
day. I figure at worst I'll just use SSH with keys to run yum commands
on each machine, but thought maybe there was a  more elegant solution
that someone here uses.

I tried google but failed when I realised that I couldn't come up with
precise search terms. google: software install linux.... doh! Yea, I'm
not feeling very creative right now.

Thanks,
Eric

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 





From nate at ima.umn.edu  Wed Nov  1 10:59:13 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:59:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4548D261.8050201@ima.umn.edu>

We have ssh as a fail safe system.. Again, all ssh root keys are managed
via a package (ima-ssh-rootkeys) and are auto updated on every machine
on the network nightly. Apt roxxors my soxxors.


Chad Walstrom wrote:
> "Eric Peterson" <srcfoo at gmail.com>  wrote:
>   
>> I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
>> installations. So that you can install a package on multiple
>> machines with a single command.
>>     
>
> cfengine 2.  Actually, I'm just starting to work on this.  I'm tired
> of sshing things around.  It worked so nicely when I worked at the
> IMA, and I've missed it ever since.  The number of boxes we need to
> manage keeps rising, ssh pub/priv keys need to be managed, X.509 ssl
> certs and keys need to be pushed.  Etc.
>
> cfengine is one of the most effective ways to manage your network.
> There's a bit of overhead and learning curve, but once it's in place,
> you'll never understand why you tried to manage a network without it.
>
>   
>> I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
>> this. The guests are all CentOS.
>>     
>
> Create a Xen guest that acts as the cfengine master and the other
> guests as clients.
>
>   


-- 
==============================================
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
           http://www.ima.umn.edu/
==============================================
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications
University of Minnesota
400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463
============================================== 




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 11:04:47 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:04:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <s5487b47.090@mdh-gw9.health.state.mn.us>
References: <s5487b47.090@mdh-gw9.health.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611010904l4ccbecf7t1a6a7d69930004b3@mail.gmail.com>

Currently I do roll my own RPM packages and use my own CentOS
repositories. We do this because we have LOTS of customizations that
we do to a server before it leaves our doors. It works great and
Nate's suggestion is a good one. I haven't done this yet because my
time has been split in too many directions so I couldn't keep pace.

The problem that I hope to address is that I have different
configurations for different servers and sometimes I just want to push
a package to a single client or a group of clients. I hope cfengine
will let me do this.

I'll report back as things progress.

Eric

On 11/1/06, Troy.A Johnson <troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us> wrote:
> Eric,
>
> If your needs are few, and you can create RPM packages, you can create
> a "group" package that lists everything you wish to install as
> dependencies. By releasing updated versions of this "group" package (in
> you own custom yum repository) you can "remotely" add packages later
> on.
>
> If you find something off list, please let the list know. It sounds
> interesting.
>
> Troy
>
> >>> "Eric Peterson" <srcfoo at gmail.com> 11/01/06 10:07 AM >>>
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone uses software to perform mass software
> installations. So that you can install a package on multiple machines
> with a single command.
>
> I have serveral Xen guests and I'm hoping their is a good way to do
> this. The guests are all CentOS.
>
> I know SuSE/Novell used Red Carpet or something like that back in the
> day. I figure at worst I'll just use SSH with keys to run yum commands
> on each machine, but thought maybe there was a  more elegant solution
> that someone here uses.
>
> I tried google but failed when I realised that I couldn't come up with
> precise search terms. google: software install linux.... doh! Yea, I'm
> not feeling very creative right now.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>


From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Nov  1 11:28:12 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 11:28:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <4548D261.8050201@ima.umn.edu> 
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4548D261.8050201@ima.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20061101172812.089316985@skuld.wookimus.net>

> We have ssh as a fail safe system.. Again, all ssh root keys are
> managed via a package (ima-ssh-rootkeys) and are auto updated on
> every machine on the network nightly. Apt roxxors my soxxors.

ssh and packages are O.K., but sometimes you don't want to have to
install packages just to manage configuration files.  Maybe you want
to change a single line in a config file on only the machines that are
part of the fileserver class.  cfengine can do that for you.

What if the workstation is off the network and unable to communicate
with the master server, where it retrieves its data?  When the
connectivity is re-established, cfengine can query the server for
changes and apply them on its own time.  Most ssh setups are generally
server-to-client pushes.  This doesn't always work, and you'll end up
having to push out changes once again.

Still, these are just logistical hurdles.  You can get a nice little
setup with ssh and packages, as Nate has shown.  Visit to the cfengine
site for the true advocacy information.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From nate at ima.umn.edu  Wed Nov  1 11:58:47 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 11:58:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Coraid
Message-ID: <4548E057.4000301@ima.umn.edu>

Anyone know anything about coraid (www.coraid.com) and their AoE NAS
devices? Options like Isilon or Netapp are a bit above what I am
investigating right now.

-- 
==============================================
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
           http://www.ima.umn.edu/
==============================================
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications
University of Minnesota
400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463
============================================== 




From nate at ima.umn.edu  Wed Nov  1 12:07:34 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 12:07:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <20061101172812.089316985@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>	<20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>	<4548D261.8050201@ima.umn.edu>
	<20061101172812.089316985@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4548E266.5000600@ima.umn.edu>

Yeah I hear ya. Apt solves the ssh push problem (which is what Eric was
using). Matt can better explain why we went with debian preseeds over
FAI/CFEngine. There were some major problems with CFEngine that kept us
away from it.

Chad Walstrom wrote:
>> We have ssh as a fail safe system.. Again, all ssh root keys are
>> managed via a package (ima-ssh-rootkeys) and are auto updated on
>> every machine on the network nightly. Apt roxxors my soxxors.
>>     
>
> ssh and packages are O.K., but sometimes you don't want to have to
> install packages just to manage configuration files.  Maybe you want
> to change a single line in a config file on only the machines that are
> part of the fileserver class.  cfengine can do that for you.
>
> What if the workstation is off the network and unable to communicate
> with the master server, where it retrieves its data?  When the
> connectivity is re-established, cfengine can query the server for
> changes and apply them on its own time.  Most ssh setups are generally
> server-to-client pushes.  This doesn't always work, and you'll end up
> having to push out changes once again.
>
> Still, these are just logistical hurdles.  You can get a nice little
> setup with ssh and packages, as Nate has shown.  Visit to the cfengine
> site for the true advocacy information.
>
>   


-- 
==============================================
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
           http://www.ima.umn.edu/
==============================================
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications
University of Minnesota
400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463
============================================== 




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 12:30:13 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:30:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Coraid
In-Reply-To: <4548E057.4000301@ima.umn.edu>
References: <4548E057.4000301@ima.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611011030w7f5f0591jf175659b10c8e3ff@mail.gmail.com>

It's a popular option on the Xen mailing lists. Sounds like it has
good performance and the Coraid company sounds like it really stands
behind its product. I think I would opt for AoE versus iSCSI from what
I've heard. I'm sure fiber channel options still win based on
performance but not price.

On 11/1/06, Nate Sanders <nate at ima.umn.edu> wrote:
> Anyone know anything about coraid (www.coraid.com) and their AoE NAS
> devices? Options like Isilon or Netapp are a bit above what I am
> investigating right now.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
> Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
>            http://www.ima.umn.edu/
> ==============================================
> Institute for Mathematics and its Applications
> University of Minnesota
> 400 Lind Hall, 207 Church St. SE
> Minneapolis, MN 55455-0463
> ==============================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Wed Nov  1 14:37:53 2006
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:37:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mass software installation
In-Reply-To: <4548E266.5000600@ima.umn.edu>
References: <579c6fd30611010807p3cae20cag496c6ac85c26a115@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061101163223.C02446985@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4548D261.8050201@ima.umn.edu>
	<20061101172812.089316985@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4548E266.5000600@ima.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20061101203753.GA15418@localhost.localdomain>

I am using radmind on some Mac hosts and it works well.  It is
client pull and lets you set up different configs per ip.

I have not tried the Linux or Windows ports of the software.  It
sort of acts like tripwire with a repository of files to replace
differences (so you need a bit of storage somewhere to house new
files).  It seems to be more tailored to using in lab environments
but I could imagine it working in other environments.

Thanks,
Kelly Black
KB0GBJ


From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Nov  1 15:35:55 2006
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:35:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] screen :split vertical
In-Reply-To: <4547A4A4.4020900@cdf123.net>
References: <4547A4A4.4020900@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0611011335t75ccf45fsd17adf660b87be7a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/06, Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net> wrote:
>
> I know you can edit files like this in vi, but can screen do the same thing?

Looks like someone has written a patch for screen that will do vert
splits.  I haven't tried it, though, so no recommendations from me...

http://fungi.yuggoth.org/vsp4s/

-Erik


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov  2 01:54:20 2006
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 01:54:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Treo 700p - linking to evolution
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0610311219450.24383@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
References: <1162168635.8662.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1162258819.32325.4.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<e3a54b020610301906i193b70b5o4d453181d2b829d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610310820020.2320@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031154558.GA13538@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610311024590.10983@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031175440.GA17087@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0610311219450.24383@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0611020151380.13241@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Nate Carlson wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Sidney Cammeresi wrote:
>> Well there are two parts you get from a cellular operator:  network
>> access and PSTN origination/termination.  If I'm providing my own
>> network connection into T-Mobile and am not using T-Mobile's expensive
>> GSM network to carry my phone calls (of course, coming in over the
>> Internet has a non-zero cost), I should get a discount.
>
> Huh? The Wi-Fi is for web browsing.. you don't touch T-Mobile at all 
> while you are Wi-Fi. IE, my new PDA has both WiFi and EDGE.. whenever 
> I'm around an AP for Wi-Fi, I use that instead, since it's a heck of a 
> lot faster.

They have a new service that started last week:

http://www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/

You use wifi telephony with your cell phone to avoid paying for minutes 
during business hours.  Also, it should work in your basement if your wifi 
gets to your basement and your cell doesn't work well down there.  That's 
one thing I like about it - my cell phone doesn't work very well in my 
home.

I found out about this from an article in the NY Times on 10/24.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov  2 02:05:56 2006
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 02:05:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Treo 700p - linking to evolution
In-Reply-To: <20061031175440.GA17087@cheesecake.org>
References: <1162168635.8662.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1162258819.32325.4.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<e3a54b020610301906i193b70b5o4d453181d2b829d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610310820020.2320@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031154558.GA13538@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610311024590.10983@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031175440.GA17087@cheesecake.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0611020155320.13241@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Sidney Cammeresi wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 at 10.31.12 -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Sidney Cammeresi wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 at 08.25.33 -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>>>> Treo 650 came out two years ago with Bluetooth (10/24/2004).  Of
>>>> course, 700p and 700w also have Bluetooth.  If they'll just add WiFi,
>>>> I'll buy one!  Cellular service that includes a WiFi option is the
>>>> latest craze (see snippet of NY Times article about T-Mobile below).
>>>
>>> Are not T-Mobile in the business of maintaining their own network?
>>>
>>> Count me out.  I'm not subleasing my network to T-Mobile unless they're
>>> going to pay me for providing Internet service to their company.
>>
>> Can you explain this?  I don't know what you mean.  The WiFi phone is
>> supposed to work in Starbucks, some other places, and on your home WiFi
>> network.
>
> Well there are two parts you get from a cellular operator:  network 
> access and PSTN origination/termination.  If I'm providing my own 
> network connection into T-Mobile and am not using T-Mobile's expensive 
> GSM network to carry my phone calls (of course, coming in over the 
> Internet has a non-zero cost), I should get a discount.

You do get a discount:  It is free to make wi-fi calls.  This is what 
people like about it:  You have so many anytime minutes but you can save 
on them by using wi-fi during business hours.  You can also use it to get 
a better signal than cellular provides (e.g., in your basement).  Here's 
some info:

http://www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/


>>> T-Mobile subscriber (again) even though GPRS sucks
>>
>> What problems do you have with GPRS?
>
> Low bandwidth[1] (c 60 Kbps), high latency[2] (c 500-1000 ms) compared 
> to other technologies like EV-DO.

I sometimes confuse GPRS with GSM.  Now I remember the difference.


> The main good thing about GPRS is that T-Mobile are not totally and 
> utterly brain damaged when it comes to selling data services.

That's too bad.  No ev-do or 3G yet?  Looks like it's in the works:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ZDM/story?id=2537247

Thanks for the update.  I'll hold off on switching to t-mobile for another 
year or more.

Mike


From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu Nov  2 10:58:27 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:58:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Treo 700p - linking to evolution
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0611020151380.13241@taxa.epi.umn.edu> 
References: <1162168635.8662.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1162258819.32325.4.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<e3a54b020610301906i193b70b5o4d453181d2b829d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610310820020.2320@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031154558.GA13538@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610311024590.10983@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031175440.GA17087@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0610311219450.24383@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0611020151380.13241@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20061102165827.3F79A321A@skuld.wookimus.net>

Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu>  wrote:
> They have a new service that started last week:
> 
> http://www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/

What fonts are they using?  I don't see any of the text.
-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov  2 11:44:18 2006
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:44:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Treo 700p - linking to evolution
In-Reply-To: <20061102165827.3F79A321A@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <1162168635.8662.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1162258819.32325.4.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<e3a54b020610301906i193b70b5o4d453181d2b829d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610310820020.2320@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031154558.GA13538@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0610311024590.10983@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061031175440.GA17087@cheesecake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0610311219450.24383@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0611020151380.13241@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20061102165827.3F79A321A@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0611021142060.4056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Chad Walstrom wrote:

> Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu>  wrote:
>> They have a new service that started last week:
>>
>> http://www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/
>
> What fonts are they using?  I don't see any of the text.


Do you see anything?  It's some kind of shockwave flash thing.  Maybe it 
isn't Linux friendly.  It looks OK on my WinXP PC in Firefox.

Mike


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Thu Nov  2 11:51:12 2006
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:51:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
Message-ID: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>

I've used www.mamboserver.com in the past and thought it was pretty good,
but i'd like to ask for any recommendations anyone might have before going
too far down that road. Specifically I am looking for a replacement for
www.technicallc.com. The main focus of the site is as a job application
site. I've searched high and low for a pre-built solution. I've looked at
Vectrix, but it doesn't seem to want to install.. and there don't seem to be
many other options out there.  Anyone have any suggestions? Right now I am
leaning towards using Mambo as the framework and just re-creating that site
inside that frame work. I need the HR person to be able to post jobs.. right
now everything but the actual application is static.. meaning i have to
update the listings.. not to mention it wasn't written well to begin with.
VERY hard to maintain. (it wasn't me!) :-)

Thanks in advance,

Chris Smith
-------------- next part --------------
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From bhartm at visi.com  Thu Nov  2 13:55:11 2006
From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:55:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <454A4D1F.5090801@visi.com>


IMO, Mambo is probably a good choice.  I've also tried drupal.org, which 
is similar.  Both are PHP/MySQL.  I think Mambo is better looking out of 
the "box." Probably want to hide most of the features.

Chris Smith wrote:
> I've used www.mamboserver.com <http://www.mamboserver.com> in the past 
> and thought it was pretty good, but i'd like to ask for any 
> recommendations anyone might have before going too far down that road. 
> Specifically I am looking for a replacement for www.technicallc.com 
> <http://www.technicallc.com>. The main focus of the site is as a job 
> application site. I've searched high and low for a pre-built solution. 
> I've looked at Vectrix, but it doesn't seem to want to install.. and 
> there don't seem to be many other options out there.  Anyone have any 
> suggestions? Right now I am leaning towards using Mambo as the 
> framework and just re-creating that site inside that frame work. I 
> need the HR person to be able to post jobs.. right now everything but 
> the actual application is static.. meaning i have to update the 
> listings.. not to mention it wasn't written well to begin with. VERY 
> hard to maintain. (it wasn't me!) :-)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris Smith
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


From rclark at lakesplus.com  Thu Nov  2 15:15:53 2006
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:15:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] LCD Monitor - 1440x900?
Message-ID: <1162502153.6279.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I finally hooked up the Acer monitor AL2016W.  I can get it to work, but
only at certain resolutions.  I have attached my xorg.conf file below.

I made changes to it ... and the 1680x1050 works fine.  The 1280x800
works fine as well ... but it is a bit course.  I was hoping to get
1440x900 to work 

When I go into system-config-display ... i do not get any other options
with the 16:10 ratio that this wide screen LCD has.  In the Modes
Section, the only line that is truly right (stolen off the internet
someplace) is the 1680x1050 at 60 Hz ... all the others are just guesses
pretty much 

Assistance would be greatly appreciated as the 1680 setting is too tall
vertically and I can not adjust the monitor to get the lower edge to fit
on the screen.

Randy






# Xorg configuration created by system-config-display

Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "single head configuration"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"

# Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together)
# By default, a font server independent of the X server is
# used to render fonts.
        FontPath     "unix/:7100"
EndSection

Section "Module"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "extmod"
        Load  "fbdevhw"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "freetype"
        Load  "type1"
        Load  "dri"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

# Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1))
#       Option  "Xleds"         "1 2 3"
# To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable.
#       Option  "XkbDisable"
# To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the
# lines below (which are the defaults).  For example, for a non-U.S.
# keyboard, you will probably want to use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "pc102"
# If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "microsoft"
#
# Then to change the language, change the Layout setting.
# For example, a german layout can be obtained with:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
# or:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
#       Option  "XkbVariant"    "nodeadkeys"
#
# If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and
# control keys, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:swapcaps"
# Or if you just want both to be control, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:nocaps"
#
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "kbd"
        Option      "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option      "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
        Option      "Emulate3Buttons" "yes"
EndSection

Section "Modes"

        # 1360x768 @ 60 Hz (GTF) hsync: 47.712 kHz; pclk: 85.5 MHz
        Identifier     "16:10"
        ModeLine     "1360x768" 85.5 1360 1460 1520 1740 768 769 772 780
        # 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz (GTF) hsync: 65.29 kHz; pclk: 146.25 MHz
        ModeLine     "1680x1050" 146.2 1680 1784 1968 2256 1050 1051
1054 1087
        # 1680x1050 @ 75 Hz (GTF) hsync: 65.29 kHz; pclk: 146.25 MHz
        ModeLine     "1680x1050" 146.2 1680 1800 1984 2288 1050 1051
1054 1096
EndSection

Section "Monitor"

 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
        ModelName    "Acer AL2032W"
        UseModes     "16:10"
        DisplaySize  426        266
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
        HorizSync    30.0 - 83.0
        VertRefresh  50.0 - 75.0
        Option      "dpms" "on"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        Identifier  "Videocard0"
        Driver      "radeon"
        VendorName  "Videocard vendor"
        BoardName   "ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Videocard0"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth     24
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     16
                Modes    "1360x768" "1440x900"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     24
                Modes    "1680x1050" "1280x800"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "DRI"
        Group        0
        Mode         0666
EndSection






From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Thu Nov  2 15:59:02 2006
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:59:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] LCD Monitor - 1440x900?
In-Reply-To: <1162502153.6279.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1162502153.6279.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1162504742.16453.274876675@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Your display driver might not support that resolution. Look in your X
log file to see if X is able to use all the resolutions defined in your
X config.


----- Original message -----
From: "Randy Clarksean" <rclark at lakesplus.com>
To: "tclug" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:15:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] LCD Monitor - 1440x900?

I finally hooked up the Acer monitor AL2016W.  I can get it to work, but
only at certain resolutions.  I have attached my xorg.conf file below.

I made changes to it ... and the 1680x1050 works fine.  The 1280x800
works fine as well ... but it is a bit course.  I was hoping to get
1440x900 to work 

When I go into system-config-display ... i do not get any other options
with the 16:10 ratio that this wide screen LCD has.  In the Modes
Section, the only line that is truly right (stolen off the internet
someplace) is the 1680x1050 at 60 Hz ... all the others are just guesses
pretty much 

Assistance would be greatly appreciated as the 1680 setting is too tall
vertically and I can not adjust the monitor to get the lower edge to fit
on the screen.

Randy






# Xorg configuration created by system-config-display

Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "single head configuration"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"

# Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together)
# By default, a font server independent of the X server is
# used to render fonts.
        FontPath     "unix/:7100"
EndSection

Section "Module"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "extmod"
        Load  "fbdevhw"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "freetype"
        Load  "type1"
        Load  "dri"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

# Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1))
#       Option  "Xleds"         "1 2 3"
# To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable.
#       Option  "XkbDisable"
# To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the
# lines below (which are the defaults).  For example, for a non-U.S.
# keyboard, you will probably want to use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "pc102"
# If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "microsoft"
#
# Then to change the language, change the Layout setting.
# For example, a german layout can be obtained with:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
# or:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
#       Option  "XkbVariant"    "nodeadkeys"
#
# If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and
# control keys, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:swapcaps"
# Or if you just want both to be control, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:nocaps"
#
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "kbd"
        Option      "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option      "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
        Option      "Emulate3Buttons" "yes"
EndSection

Section "Modes"

        # 1360x768 @ 60 Hz (GTF) hsync: 47.712 kHz; pclk: 85.5 MHz
        Identifier     "16:10"
        ModeLine     "1360x768" 85.5 1360 1460 1520 1740 768 769 772 780
        # 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz (GTF) hsync: 65.29 kHz; pclk: 146.25 MHz
        ModeLine     "1680x1050" 146.2 1680 1784 1968 2256 1050 1051
1054 1087
        # 1680x1050 @ 75 Hz (GTF) hsync: 65.29 kHz; pclk: 146.25 MHz
        ModeLine     "1680x1050" 146.2 1680 1800 1984 2288 1050 1051
1054 1096
EndSection

Section "Monitor"

 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
        ModelName    "Acer AL2032W"
        UseModes     "16:10"
        DisplaySize  426        266
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
        HorizSync    30.0 - 83.0
        VertRefresh  50.0 - 75.0
        Option      "dpms" "on"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        Identifier  "Videocard0"
        Driver      "radeon"
        VendorName  "Videocard vendor"
        BoardName   "ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Videocard0"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth     24
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     16
                Modes    "1360x768" "1440x900"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     24
                Modes    "1680x1050" "1280x800"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "DRI"
        Group        0
        Mode         0666
EndSection





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jack at jacku.com  Thu Nov  2 22:58:44 2006
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:58:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>

On Thursday 02 November 2006 11:51 am, Chris Smith wrote:
> I've used www.mamboserver.com in the past and thought it was pretty good,
> but i'd like to ask for any recommendations anyone might have before going
> too far down that road. Specifically I am looking for a replacement for
> www.technicallc.com. The main focus of the site is as a job application
> site. I've searched high and low for a pre-built solution. I've looked at
> Vectrix, but it doesn't seem to want to install.. and there don't seem to
> be many other options out there.  Anyone have any suggestions? Right now I
> am leaning towards using Mambo as the framework and just re-creating that
> site inside that frame work. I need the HR person to be able to post jobs..
> right now everything but the actual application is static.. meaning i have
> to update the listings.. not to mention it wasn't written well to begin
> with. VERY hard to maintain. (it wasn't me!) :-)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris Smith

I feel compelled in my role as quasi-Coordinator of the Twin Cities 
Zope/Python User Group to recommend Plone (http://plone.org) as a solution. 
In addition to being a top shelf CMS there is a Job Board product available 
for it. Information on it can be found at: 
http://plone.org/products/plonejobboard

One of Plone's strengths in my opinion (and yes I'm biased) is the ease of 
enter content for "regular users".

-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Fri Nov  3 07:35:14 2006
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 07:35:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
Message-ID: <20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:58:44 -0600
Jack Ungerleider <jack at jacku.com> wrote:

> I feel compelled in my role as quasi-Coordinator of the Twin
> Cities Zope/Python User Group to recommend Plone
> (http://plone.org) as a solution. 

The only problem with plone is you first need Zope, which I've
found to be one of the biggest headaches and has one of the
steepest learning curves amoung the web software I've installed.

Don't get me wrong, I love python.  If you want a good python
solution that doesn't require running another app server, I'd also
recommend Django - it's not a CMS, rather a framework similar to
Rails, but it'd help you a ton if you decide to roll your own, plus
it plays well with Apache - something Rails didn't seem to do last
time I looked.

> One of Plone's strengths in my opinion (and yes I'm biased) is
> the ease of enter content for "regular users".

We're all probably biased in this X vs Y converstations.  :)  Plone
is cool, about the only reason I can think of that anyone would
want to touch Zope with a 10 foot pole. What you need here though
is a hosting company that is already running it so you don't have
to get involved with Zope administration/maintenance. Anyway,
that's my $0.02, I'm sure others will say Zope rules, I'm not on
that list though.  :)

Josh


From admin at lctn.org  Fri Nov  3 08:03:46 2006
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:03:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mpeg-2,4 streaming
Message-ID: <1162562627.6797.132.camel@project-1.tamray.com>

We are looking for an open source solution like video furnace. We need
to be able to stream live and archived content in mpeg format, as well
as have some sort of guide that can be searched for videos on the
server. I have looked a bit at Media Frame, but the info I see is not
very current.


Raymond


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From chewie at wookimus.net  Fri Nov  3 09:44:01 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:44:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net> 
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
	<20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>

Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>  wrote:
> The only problem with plone is you first need Zope, which I've found
> to be one of the biggest headaches and has one of the steepest
> learning curves amoung the web software I've installed.

This may have been true with Zope 2, but is the same true for Zope 3?
I have no experience with the latter, so I cannot comment.  Anyone?

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Fri Nov  3 10:04:04 2006
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:04:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
	<20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 09:44:01AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>  wrote:
> > The only problem with plone is you first need Zope, which I've found
> > to be one of the biggest headaches and has one of the steepest
> > learning curves amoung the web software I've installed.
> 
> This may have been true with Zope 2, but is the same true for Zope 3?
> I have no experience with the latter, so I cannot comment.  Anyone?

My only experience with Zope was pretty bad.  Is it just me, or have
people pretty much given up on Python?

-- 
trammell at el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Nov  3 10:34:49 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:34:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
	<20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611030834i4ef98b52n1b30ffda8700e9f9@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/3/06, John J. Trammell <trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 09:44:01AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> > Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>  wrote:
> > > The only problem with plone is you first need Zope, which I've found
> > > to be one of the biggest headaches and has one of the steepest
> > > learning curves amoung the web software I've installed.
> >
> > This may have been true with Zope 2, but is the same true for Zope 3?
> > I have no experience with the latter, so I cannot comment.  Anyone?
>
> My only experience with Zope was pretty bad.  Is it just me, or have
> people pretty much given up on Python?

This is getting off topic, but I'm interested now and I'll bite.

I'm curious what made your experience bad? Also, what makes you think
people have given up on Python?

I'm not attacking you, but I do love Python and I can't personally see
why it's not more widely used. So I am very interested to learn what
criticisms people have of it. Or is it just one of those "religious"
preferences like emacs and vim?

It seems like big (as in size or popularity) projects such as Xen,
Twisted, yum, Kickstart, and several other projects that need good
glue code are all using Python.

I also have no problems with Perl, PHP, or whatever but when I want to
get something done I choose Python.

Cheers,
Eric


From chewie at wookimus.net  Fri Nov  3 11:25:23 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 11:25:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com> 
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
	<20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <20061103172523.670D41D68@skuld.wookimus.net>

"John J. Trammell" <trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com>  wrote:
> My only experience with Zope was pretty bad.  Is it just me, or have
> people pretty much given up on Python?

I think it's just you.  There is a shift in how web applications are
being done.  Rather than having monolithic libraries and application
server structures, more flexible frameworks have come to the
forefront.  This could have been prompted by Ruby on Rails, but I
believe that Python development had been heading in that direction
anyway, long before Rails showed up.

PEP 333, the Python Web Server Gateway Interface v1.0, defines a
method for loosely coupled python components to build web
applications.  Python Paste, a project by Ian Bicking, sets up a loose
implementation of WSGI, and is used in a number of framework projects
in the Python world.  I believe Zope developers are incorporating WSGI
into their infrastructure to reuse applications and components from
other projects.

All in all, the Python web-development world is moving ahead at a
pretty fast pace.  I do not comment on Zope, only because I don't
really follow their project closely.

I can assure you, however, that Python is far from being abandoned.  I
use it in preference to Perl for all my little applications, and even
daily scripting.  I haven't really tried Ruby, mainly because I get
what I need from Python.  I have never been a fanboy of Perl, but it
is just as effective as either Python or Ruby.  When all is said and
done, these three are far more useful than Java ever was.

In any case, it would be interesting to hear from a Zope fanboy/girl
to see what their community thinks of the product.
-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From nate at refried.org  Fri Nov  3 15:27:24 2006
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:27:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
	<20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <20061103212724.GA25441@refried.org>

On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 09:44:01AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>  wrote:
> > The only problem with plone is you first need Zope, which I've found
> > to be one of the biggest headaches and has one of the steepest
> > learning curves amoung the web software I've installed.
> 
> This may have been true with Zope 2, but is the same true for Zope 3?
> I have no experience with the latter, so I cannot comment.  Anyone?

My blog was running on Zope 2 for years.  I was using COREBlog which
made it really easy to set up out of the box.  After hacking on the code
for a while I decided to try to move to Zope 3.  After playing with it
for a few weeks I decided it was too complicated for a hobbiest to use.
It's probably a great base for a commercial project, but not for my
spare time.

I ended up switching to Django.  I really like how it tries to keep
things clean.  If you're looking at new platforms I would strongly
suggesting reading the overview and trying out the tutorials.  

http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/overview/
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/tutorial1/
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/tutorial2/
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/tutorial3/
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/tutorial4/

Nate


From ddezurik at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  3 19:33:54 2006
From: ddezurik at yahoo.com (Damien DeZurik)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:33:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mpeg-2,4 streaming
In-Reply-To: <1162562627.6797.132.camel@project-1.tamray.com>
Message-ID: <20061104013354.63077.qmail@web37206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Will ice cast do it for you? I haven't looked too
closely. maybe not.

http://www.icecast.org/

Damien

--- Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> We are looking for an open source solution like
> video furnace. We need
> to be able to stream live and archived content in
> mpeg format, as well
> as have some sort of guide that can be searched for
> videos on the
> server. I have looked a bit at Media Frame, but the
> info I see is not
> very current.
> 
> 
> Raymond
> 
> 
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 



From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Fri Nov  3 22:01:50 2006
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 22:01:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<200611022258.44575.jack@jacku.com>
	<20061103073514.e80476fa.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<20061103154401.1C9071D6F@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <20061103220150.8ed4219c.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:04:04 -0600
"John J. Trammell" <trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 09:44:01AM -0600, Chad Walstrom wrote:
> > Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>  wrote:
> > > The only problem with plone is you first need Zope, which
> > > I've found to be one of the biggest headaches and has one of
> > > the steepest learning curves amoung the web software I've
> > > installed.
> > 
> > This may have been true with Zope 2, but is the same true for
> > Zope 3? I have no experience with the latter, so I cannot
> > comment.  Anyone?
> 
> My only experience with Zope was pretty bad.  Is it just me, or
> have people pretty much given up on Python?

I wouldn't say that, I just don't think that it's well suited yet
for web stuff - it may never catch up.  I LOVE python for admin
command line scripts and django is great for an out-of-the-box
admin tool to work a small database.  Trouble is, if you know PhP
and Perl, why bother learning Python?  I had to use it for a work
project or I never would've bothered, but I'm really glad I did.

Josh


From jack at jacku.com  Sat Nov  4 00:48:53 2006
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:48:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CMS recomendation
In-Reply-To: <20061103172523.670D41D68@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <5bab831e0611020951k454aa9act8b64f8176a08eaac@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061103160404.GA8273@mail.el-swifto.com>
	<20061103172523.670D41D68@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <200611040048.53841.jack@jacku.com>

On Friday 03 November 2006 11:25 am, Chad Walstrom wrote:
<snipped some text>
> In any case, it would be interesting to hear from a Zope fanboy/girl
> to see what their community thinks of the product.

I will do my best. ;-)

I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself. I will relate my experience and 
my opinions about Zope, Plone and Python. Not necessarily in that order. If 
you don't really care about any of this don't read any further.

1. To the question about Python - yes its still out there and still going 
strong. I find it turning up in a lot of places where I don't expect it. If 
you want a good exploration of why python is worth the effort go to 
http://mindview.net/FAQ/FAQ-012 follow the link on the page and download 
Bruce Eckel's presentation "Why I Love Python".

2. Zope - Yes it has a steep learning curve. I have often described it as a 
giant set of steps. Once you get a certain amount under your belt you can do 
really cool things quickly. You eventually hit the next wall and need to 
scale that. Fortunately each step is shorter than the last. 

I can't speak to Zope 3. I haven't had the time to dig into it. Most of the 
Zope stuff I do right now is Plone related and that has me firmly in the 
Zope2 world. But I've been using it for 6+ years at this point and I'm 
comfortable there.

3. Plone - Keeps moving forward. They are "backporting" some of the cooler 
things from Zope3 into Plone with each successive release to make the 
conversion to Zope3 with Plone 3 or 3.5 (not sure when they plan to switch 
over) easier. That said Plone 2.5 employs the Pluggable Authentication 
Services (PAS) by default which should make integration with other security 
environments better. Just last week I helped somebody setup a Zope 2.9/Plone 
2.5 site with cache-fu using Squid for improved performance. This took very 
little effort to get going. The recent Plone conference was hosted by a 
non-profit group which has help raise the profile of Plone in that market. 
This generated some healthy discussion on the TechSoup site that provides 
technology help for non-profits. 

Plone development is going ahead full steam. Zope development continues as 
more and more of the techniques of Zope3 are made available to Zope2 via the 
Five product. As far as I can tell most of this stuff deals with lower level 
functions that take advantage of advances in Python itself. 

FWIW in the past 6 months I have been contacted by several people about Plone 
sites they have setup or are considering and requesting assistance or 
information about how to do what they want to do. This includes small 
businesses, large businesses and individuals. And far from being a detriment 
to Plone I think Zope is an asset. When I was teaching Zope and Plone to 
would be web developers I used to describe it as a "layered" model. Each 
layer (Python, Zope, CMF, Plone) provided pieces that made getting a website 
running easier. Each layer also required you to buy in to how it did things 
to get the benefits of those functions. This makes creating sites in this 
environment very simple once you know how it all works together. I've seen 
several articles, particularly "At the Forge" columns in Linux Journal that 
express the sentiments of many of the comments here. Basically that this or 
that tool on Zope is a really good choice for doing whatever task is being 
discussed. But you have to deal with Zope. In some cases Lerner even suggests 
that a certain Zope solution better than the alternatives, but you need to 
"get" Zope and that can be a problem for people. There have been several 
comparisons of FOSS Content Managers. In most reviews Plone rates highly but 
Zope and the learning curve are brought up as potential stumbling blocks. In 
most cases lately these articles suggest Drupal. Basically when I read 
articles like that I realize that I don't need another framework or app 
server I'm already using one that does what I need, and does it well. 

But then again I am, to use Chewie's words, a Zope Fanboy. ;-) 


-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From dan at dandrake.org  Mon Nov  6 09:13:53 2006
From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:13:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
Message-ID: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>

A little over a month ago I posted about some lockups I was experiencing
[1]. I thought I found a way to avoid the problem, but someone pointed
out that if the motherboard is bad, things will only get worse.

Sure enough, I'm getting the same lockups, so I think it's time for a
new motherboard. What do you guys suggest?

I'd prefer micro ATX so I don't have to get a new case. Onboard video is
preferred because I don't do any gaming; anything that runs X decently
is fine. Stability and Linux compatibility are more important than
speed.

What do you guys think?

Dan

 1. http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/2006-September/050809.html
-- 
Ceci n'est pas une .signature.
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Nov  6 10:21:38 2006
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:21:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>
References: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061016040.21463@Rooster>

Hi there,

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Dan Drake wrote:

> Sure enough, I'm getting the same lockups, so I think it's time for a
> new motherboard. What do you guys suggest?

I've got three mATX machines going here. I've had really good luck with 
ABIT mATX motherboards. I like nForce based motherboards because I know 
for a fact that does very well under Linux and usually has some kind of 
nVidia-based onboard video card. I've had LESS luck with ECS and MSI 
boards, but that was probably because I got cheapo ECS and MSI boards, fo 
rwhen I have a budget of < $300. And even then the problems were not 
compatibility.

I'm going to be rebuilding my media machine soon, which is on a mATX right 
now, but I'm moving it to a 'real' ATX because I need to put a 'real' 
video card in it. Ok, I'm doign that cause I'm upgrading my desktop's 
video card so I'll have a pretty nice card for the media center machine. 
Trying to find a decent CASE is my problem.


-Yaron

--


From florin at iucha.net  Mon Nov  6 11:33:13 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:33:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061016040.21463@Rooster>
References: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061016040.21463@Rooster>
Message-ID: <20061106173313.GB10870@iucha.net>

On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 10:21:38AM -0600, Yaron wrote:
> I've got three mATX machines going here. I've had really good luck with 
> ABIT mATX motherboards. I like nForce based motherboards because I know 
> for a fact that does very well under Linux and usually has some kind of 
> nVidia-based onboard video card. I've had LESS luck with ECS and MSI 
> boards, but that was probably because I got cheapo ECS and MSI boards, fo 
> rwhen I have a budget of < $300. And even then the problems were not 
> compatibility.
> 
> I'm going to be rebuilding my media machine soon, which is on a mATX right 
> now, but I'm moving it to a 'real' ATX because I need to put a 'real' 
> video card in it. Ok, I'm doign that cause I'm upgrading my desktop's 
> video card so I'll have a pretty nice card for the media center machine. 
> Trying to find a decent CASE is my problem.

What about this one: "Antec NSK2400 Media PC Case" ?

   http://www.silentpcreview.com/article591-page1.html

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Nov  6 11:43:44 2006
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:43:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20061106173313.GB10870@iucha.net>
References: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061016040.21463@Rooster>
	<20061106173313.GB10870@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061141340.21463@Rooster>

Hi there,

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Florin Iucha wrote:

> What about this one: "Antec NSK2400 Media PC Case" ?

I thought they stopped selling the NS series when they came out with the 
Fusion (which is, by the way, BEAUTIFUL).

Actually my real problem here is I'm still refusing to pay more for the 
case than I am for the motherboard... but I'll get over it. Two of my mATX 
machines are Antec Aria cases right now, and I do loooove Antec cases.

I did just find a mATX board with PCI-E and if that one pans out I might 
just do a mATX media center case.


-Yaron

--


From florin at iucha.net  Mon Nov  6 14:05:59 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:05:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061141340.21463@Rooster>
References: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061016040.21463@Rooster>
	<20061106173313.GB10870@iucha.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061141340.21463@Rooster>
Message-ID: <20061106200559.GC10870@iucha.net>

On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 11:43:44AM -0600, Yaron wrote:
> > What about this one: "Antec NSK2400 Media PC Case" ?
> 
> I thought they stopped selling the NS series when they came out with the 
> Fusion (which is, by the way, BEAUTIFUL).

NSK2400 is Fusion without the buttons and display. 
> Actually my real problem here is I'm still refusing to pay more for the 
> case than I am for the motherboard... but I'll get over it. Two of my mATX 
> machines are Antec Aria cases right now, and I do loooove Antec cases.

You should be able to find it for $80 (which includes a decent
power-suppy) plus shipping.

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Nov  6 14:20:53 2006
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:20:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
In-Reply-To: <20061106200559.GC10870@iucha.net>
References: <20061106151353.GA7104@dandrake.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061016040.21463@Rooster>
	<20061106173313.GB10870@iucha.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061141340.21463@Rooster>
	<20061106200559.GC10870@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061411030.21463@Rooster>

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Florin Iucha wrote:

>> NSK2400 is Fusion without the buttons and display.

Yeah, about half the price, about half the pretty.

> You should be able to find it for $80 (which includes a decent
> power-suppy) plus shipping.

Yeah, which is more than I'm paying for a motherboard.

Now before I get accused of cheap-assness, let me just say that I am a 
cheap-ass. Okay, when I'm building a server or my desktop, then I'll go 
all out and spend the extra money for super-high-quality stuff. The guy 
I'm building now is not a vital machine - if it  dies I can live without 
it for, well, however long it takes to fix/replace it. So I'm trying to do 
it for REALLY cheap.

That said, the whole mediacenter form factor appeals to me. A lot. And an 
Antec one would be nice. I'll have to add a shelf to my entertainment 
center (because sitting on top of my stereo receiver will melt a computer) 
but that's fairly easy.

You know what really annoys me about these mediacenter cases though? No 
place to stick an IR receiver. So whatever I get, I'll have to drill a 
hole in it.


-Yaron

--


From john.meier at gmail.com  Mon Nov  6 22:58:08 2006
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:58:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
Message-ID: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>

Way lame thread, but -

Magazine sub, offered by school kids - usually I decline, but my niece is
giving me the heat, so I identified 3 possible sub that I might be
interested in that were on the list of mags to subscribe to:

PC World
PC Magazine
Wired

Don't know the difference between the two "PC" offerings, and I think Wired
is a general tech mag.  Went to the website of each and after that I'm still
at a loss.

Anyone read any of the three mentioned above?  Recommendations?  I guess I'm
be ok with anything that deal with upcoming techy stuff or one that offered
(unbiased?) opinions on current OS issues and software/hardware etc...

Like I said - kinda a lame topic... but thought the group might have some
input.

thanks
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Mon Nov  6 23:18:36 2006
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 23:18:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: webcams
Message-ID: <65293fcc0611062118o52558a10n10c5838090a50d78@mail.gmail.com>

Kinda OT here, maybe maybe not,

Here's the situation -

I have a brother-in-law that is serving the the military forces over seas.
I have a sister-in-law and a niece that are here in the states.  They have
not seen each other in a long time.  I'd like to set them up with a web cam
interface where they can talk/see each other.  He has a laptop with him
(windows based I assume)
 and she has a home PC - also windows based.  The y can call each other and
talk, but I'd like to set them up with a way to at least see each other.

I have not dealt with web cams for a long time - and have no idea if they
can just connect (stright IP connection) or if there needs to be some sort
of broadcaster to manage connections.  I'm willing to set up a server (linux
based in my case) to facilitate their connections.

Any hardware/software recommendations?
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From s.earl.martin at gmail.com  Mon Nov  6 23:50:07 2006
From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 23:50:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: webcams
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0611062118o52558a10n10c5838090a50d78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0611062118o52558a10n10c5838090a50d78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d9a50e890611062150h264c9025y521a7f812ad1d878@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/6/06, John Meier wrote:
> I have a brother-in-law that is serving the the military forces over seas.
> I have a sister-in-law and a niece that are here in the states.  They have
> not seen each other in a long time.  I'd like to set them up with a web cam
> interface where they can talk/see each other.  He has a laptop with him
> (windows based I assume)
>  and she has a home PC - also windows based.  The y can call each other and
> talk, but I'd like to set them up with a way to at least see each other.
>

I'd go with cheapo webcams and use skype (or pretty much any IM
client).  Not exactly open source or linux-related, but it should be
fairly straightforward. Your biggest headache (if there is one) will
probably be firewall/NAT issues on either end.

sm


From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Tue Nov  7 00:17:28 2006
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:17:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <455024F8.2030301@gmail.com>

Both of the PC magazines are really low level consumer titles. Most of 
what they feature are wish lists of new tech gear, but no in-depth 
discussions. A recent cover asks us if we are ready for Windows Vista. 
It seems as though the editors of these two magazines think that PC 
means Windows. There isn't even coverage of Macintosh computers let 
alone linux.

Wired is a business magazine with a strong eye towards the role 
technology plays in the economy. It's a magazine that is okay with it's 
place on the fringe of business commentary. In other words it's not 
trying to be like Forbes or Harvard Business Review. It has a niche 
audience, but continues to publish prescient articles that garner the 
attention of mainstream economists, CEOs, and investors. I highly 
recommend this one.

Personally, though, I'd look to see if Scientific American, Scientific 
American Mind, and The Economist were part of your niece's magazine 
drive and get those.

These are just some thoughts from a bookseller at a Barnes and Noble, 
though, so don't take them too seriously.

Cheers,

Benjamin


From kaze0010 at umn.edu  Tue Nov  7 01:13:21 2006
From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi)
Date: 07 Nov 2006 01:13:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
In-Reply-To: <455024F8.2030301@gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>
	<455024F8.2030301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Prayer.1.0.16.0611070113210.17696@wm2.tc.umn.edu>

On Nov 7 2006, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:

>Both of the PC magazines are really low level consumer titles. Most of 
>what they feature are wish lists of new tech gear, but no in-depth 
>discussions. A recent cover asks us if we are ready for Windows Vista. 
>It seems as though the editors of these two magazines think that PC 
>means Windows. There isn't even coverage of Macintosh computers let 
>alone linux.

I second this view...although I do remember that PC Magazine issues in the 
late 1980s and early 1990s did have some in-depth articles that were more 
'geeky', including segments on DOS Debug assembly, and advanced batch 
files. At that time it was a good introductory journal. I seem to recall it 
getting a lot thinner (down to 1/4" thick from nearly 1 inch) in the mid 
90s when the Internet started taking off, with the articles being more 
low-level consumer centric.

>Wired is a business magazine with a strong eye towards the role 
>technology plays in the economy. It's a magazine that is okay with it's 
>place on the fringe of business commentary. In other words it's not 
>trying to be like Forbes or Harvard Business Review. It has a niche 
>audience, but continues to publish prescient articles that garner the 
>attention of mainstream economists, CEOs, and investors. I highly 
>recommend this one.
>
>Personally, though, I'd look to see if Scientific American, Scientific 
>American Mind, and The Economist were part of your niece's magazine 
>drive and get those.

I'd also look for Maximum PC (formerly Boot!) magazine. They include a 
monthly CD with the issue as well.

-hk


From noly747 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  7 15:08:08 2006
From: noly747 at gmail.com (jerry Nolan)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:08:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1162922402.11139.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1162922402.11139.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <a636ca1d0611071308y4c757e04n8d521e1d473dd6e@mail.gmail.com>

Max Pc has an article each month on linux geared for the curious.

On 11/7/06, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
<tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: new motherboard recommendation (Florin Iucha)
>    2. Re: new motherboard recommendation (Yaron)
>    3. OT - Magazines (John Meier)
>    4. OT: webcams (John Meier)
>    5. Re: OT: webcams (Sam Martin)
>    6. Re: OT - Magazines (Benjamin Gramlich)
>    7. Re: OT - Magazines (Haudy Kazemi)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:05:59 -0600
> From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20061106200559.GC10870 at iucha.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Mon, Nov 06, 2006 at 11:43:44AM -0600, Yaron wrote:
> > > What about this one: "Antec NSK2400 Media PC Case" ?
> >
> > I thought they stopped selling the NS series when they came out with the
> > Fusion (which is, by the way, BEAUTIFUL).
>
> NSK2400 is Fusion without the buttons and display.
> > Actually my real problem here is I'm still refusing to pay more for the
> > case than I am for the motherboard... but I'll get over it. Two of my mATX
> > machines are Antec Aria cases right now, and I do loooove Antec cases.
>
> You should be able to find it for $80 (which includes a decent
> power-suppy) plus shipping.
>
> florin
>
> --
> If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
> produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:20:53 -0600 (CST)
> From: Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] new motherboard recommendation
> To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611061411030.21463 at Rooster>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Florin Iucha wrote:
>
> >> NSK2400 is Fusion without the buttons and display.
>
> Yeah, about half the price, about half the pretty.
>
> > You should be able to find it for $80 (which includes a decent
> > power-suppy) plus shipping.
>
> Yeah, which is more than I'm paying for a motherboard.
>
> Now before I get accused of cheap-assness, let me just say that I am a
> cheap-ass. Okay, when I'm building a server or my desktop, then I'll go
> all out and spend the extra money for super-high-quality stuff. The guy
> I'm building now is not a vital machine - if it  dies I can live without
> it for, well, however long it takes to fix/replace it. So I'm trying to do
> it for REALLY cheap.
>
> That said, the whole mediacenter form factor appeals to me. A lot. And an
> Antec one would be nice. I'll have to add a shelf to my entertainment
> center (because sitting on top of my stereo receiver will melt a computer)
> but that's fairly easy.
>
> You know what really annoys me about these mediacenter cases though? No
> place to stick an IR receiver. So whatever I get, I'll have to drill a
> hole in it.
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:58:08 -0600
> From: "John Meier" <john.meier at gmail.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
> To: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Way lame thread, but -
>
> Magazine sub, offered by school kids - usually I decline, but my niece is
> giving me the heat, so I identified 3 possible sub that I might be
> interested in that were on the list of mags to subscribe to:
>
> PC World
> PC Magazine
> Wired
>
> Don't know the difference between the two "PC" offerings, and I think Wired
> is a general tech mag.  Went to the website of each and after that I'm still
> at a loss.
>
> Anyone read any of the three mentioned above?  Recommendations?  I guess I'm
> be ok with anything that deal with upcoming techy stuff or one that offered
> (unbiased?) opinions on current OS issues and software/hardware etc...
>
> Like I said - kinda a lame topic... but thought the group might have some
> input.
>
> thanks
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 23:18:36 -0600
> From: "John Meier" <john.meier at gmail.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] OT: webcams
> To: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <65293fcc0611062118o52558a10n10c5838090a50d78 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Kinda OT here, maybe maybe not,
>
> Here's the situation -
>
> I have a brother-in-law that is serving the the military forces over seas.
> I have a sister-in-law and a niece that are here in the states.  They have
> not seen each other in a long time.  I'd like to set them up with a web cam
> interface where they can talk/see each other.  He has a laptop with him
> (windows based I assume)
>  and she has a home PC - also windows based.  The y can call each other and
> talk, but I'd like to set them up with a way to at least see each other.
>
> I have not dealt with web cams for a long time - and have no idea if they
> can just connect (stright IP connection) or if there needs to be some sort
> of broadcaster to manage connections.  I'm willing to set up a server (linux
> based in my case) to facilitate their connections.
>
> Any hardware/software recommendations?
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20061106/701bb6ee/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 23:50:07 -0600
> From: "Sam Martin" <s.earl.martin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: webcams
> To: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <d9a50e890611062150h264c9025y521a7f812ad1d878 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 11/6/06, John Meier wrote:
> > I have a brother-in-law that is serving the the military forces over seas.
> > I have a sister-in-law and a niece that are here in the states.  They have
> > not seen each other in a long time.  I'd like to set them up with a web cam
> > interface where they can talk/see each other.  He has a laptop with him
> > (windows based I assume)
> >  and she has a home PC - also windows based.  The y can call each other and
> > talk, but I'd like to set them up with a way to at least see each other.
> >
>
> I'd go with cheapo webcams and use skype (or pretty much any IM
> client).  Not exactly open source or linux-related, but it should be
> fairly straightforward. Your biggest headache (if there is one) will
> probably be firewall/NAT issues on either end.
>
> sm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:17:28 -0600
> From: Benjamin Gramlich <benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
> To: John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com>
> Cc: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <455024F8.2030301 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Both of the PC magazines are really low level consumer titles. Most of
> what they feature are wish lists of new tech gear, but no in-depth
> discussions. A recent cover asks us if we are ready for Windows Vista.
> It seems as though the editors of these two magazines think that PC
> means Windows. There isn't even coverage of Macintosh computers let
> alone linux.
>
> Wired is a business magazine with a strong eye towards the role
> technology plays in the economy. It's a magazine that is okay with it's
> place on the fringe of business commentary. In other words it's not
> trying to be like Forbes or Harvard Business Review. It has a niche
> audience, but continues to publish prescient articles that garner the
> attention of mainstream economists, CEOs, and investors. I highly
> recommend this one.
>
> Personally, though, I'd look to see if Scientific American, Scientific
> American Mind, and The Economist were part of your niece's magazine
> drive and get those.
>
> These are just some thoughts from a bookseller at a Barnes and Noble,
> though, so don't take them too seriously.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Benjamin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: 07 Nov 2006 01:13:21 -0600
> From: Haudy Kazemi <kaze0010 at umn.edu>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
> To: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Cc: John Meier <john.meier at GMAIL.COM>,  Benjamin Gramlich
>         <benjamin.gramlich at GMAIL.COM>
> Message-ID: <Prayer.1.0.16.0611070113210.17696 at wm2.tc.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Nov 7 2006, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
>
> >Both of the PC magazines are really low level consumer titles. Most of
> >what they feature are wish lists of new tech gear, but no in-depth
> >discussions. A recent cover asks us if we are ready for Windows Vista.
> >It seems as though the editors of these two magazines think that PC
> >means Windows. There isn't even coverage of Macintosh computers let
> >alone linux.
>
> I second this view...although I do remember that PC Magazine issues in the
> late 1980s and early 1990s did have some in-depth articles that were more
> 'geeky', including segments on DOS Debug assembly, and advanced batch
> files. At that time it was a good introductory journal. I seem to recall it
> getting a lot thinner (down to 1/4" thick from nearly 1 inch) in the mid
> 90s when the Internet started taking off, with the articles being more
> low-level consumer centric.
>
> >Wired is a business magazine with a strong eye towards the role
> >technology plays in the economy. It's a magazine that is okay with it's
> >place on the fringe of business commentary. In other words it's not
> >trying to be like Forbes or Harvard Business Review. It has a niche
> >audience, but continues to publish prescient articles that garner the
> >attention of mainstream economists, CEOs, and investors. I highly
> >recommend this one.
> >
> >Personally, though, I'd look to see if Scientific American, Scientific
> >American Mind, and The Economist were part of your niece's magazine
> >drive and get those.
>
> I'd also look for Maximum PC (formerly Boot!) magazine. They include a
> monthly CD with the issue as well.
>
> -hk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 10
> ******************************************
>


From itwontdie at gmail.com  Tue Nov  7 16:10:00 2006
From: itwontdie at gmail.com (chi)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:10:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
In-Reply-To: <Prayer.1.0.16.0611070113210.17696@wm2.tc.umn.edu>
References: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>
	<455024F8.2030301@gmail.com>
	<Prayer.1.0.16.0611070113210.17696@wm2.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <79758ac80611071410i1f9ae90ch5270c569e7870088@mail.gmail.com>

uhm... dont forget Linux Format or Linux user & developer!


From rclark at lakesplus.com  Tue Nov  7 18:39:33 2006
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:39:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: webcams
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0611062118o52558a10n10c5838090a50d78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0611062118o52558a10n10c5838090a50d78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1162946373.3762.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>


As already mentioned ... cheapie webcam is fine ... I found Yahoo IM
would work through my firewall without any troubles ... and my firewall
is pretty reasonable.  so .. for what it is worth ... the software is
free ... just get a cheap webcam and run with it.

Randy

On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 23:18 -0600, John Meier wrote:
> Kinda OT here, maybe maybe not,
> 
> Here's the situation - 
> 
> I have a brother-in-law that is serving the the military forces over
> seas.  I have a sister-in-law and a niece that are here in the states.
> They have not seen each other in a long time.  I'd like to set them up
> with a web cam interface where they can talk/see each other.  He has a
> laptop with him (windows based I assume) 
>  and she has a home PC - also windows based.  The y can call each
> other and talk, but I'd like to set them up with a way to at least see
> each other.
> 
> I have not dealt with web cams for a long time - and have no idea if
> they can just connect (stright IP connection) or if there needs to be
> some sort of broadcaster to manage connections.  I'm willing to set up
> a server (linux based in my case) to facilitate their connections. 
> 
> Any hardware/software recommendations?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From abuchen at key-inc.com  Tue Nov  7 20:28:09 2006
From: abuchen at key-inc.com (Buchen, Amy)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:28:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] linux migration study
Message-ID: <E8F9B6C95BD88C46B8FABB9503DB7C856D5222@mse1be1.mse1.mailstreet.com>

I'm conducting a study for a Harvard Business School professor on the
costs associated with migrations between different Linux distributions,
and I am looking for companies that have undergone a migration like
this.  Does anyone have any contacts for IT professionals at large
companies (500+ full time employees) who have migrated from one Linux
distribution to another?  I can provide an honorarium of $200 to the
company IT individuals willing to participate in the study.  It will
involve a 30 to 45-minute phone conversation.  I am not looking for
external consultants who have done migrations, but specifically someone
who works for a large company that has undergone a Linux migration.
Thank you for any advice or assistance.

 

Amy

abuchen at key-inc.com

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From robbyt at robbyt.net  Wed Nov  8 13:15:47 2006
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:15:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT - Magazines
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0611062058r165f21c1h4c47ff63cd16f39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f663090611081115h348f445bgc26e76a79ddb4ddc@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/6/06, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> PC World
> PC Magazine
> Wired


PC world:
never ending rehashes of  "how to remove spyware, new features in
microsoft's new <expensive software package>, and  "best video cards"
charts.

PC Magazine:
Bit more general purpose (ie, not completely microsoft-centric)
bit more advanced, but still mostly consumer-friendly stuff.

Wired:
WEB 3.0 IS HERE!!!!  DOWNLOAD NAPSTER! IPOD IPOD MP3!!!

j/k ;) it's not quite that bad, but you get the picture eh?
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From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Thu Nov  9 10:07:40 2006
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:07:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hardware and case suggestions
Message-ID: <34b4c76d0611090807p6fdd5329u8ae30a8028b262f7@mail.gmail.com>

My circa 1998 pc-turned-server lost it's power supply sometime
yesterday afternoon.

*moment of silence*

Now, I'm shopping for a newer system that I plan on building myself
and the VERY cheap. Here are my requirements:
1) quiet
2) child-proof (my 20 month old son enjoys pushing buttons, especially
power buttons).
3) small
4) fast
5) built-in firewire (or available PCI slot)

So, given these specs, where would be the best place for me to start
shopping? Any specific hardware recommendations?

This will be running Debian linux.

Thanks.

-- 
-
G. Scott Walters
http://www.apt518.net


From tj at kewlness.net  Thu Nov  9 12:18:22 2006
From: tj at kewlness.net (T.J. Duchene)
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:18:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hardware and case suggestions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1163095202.18799.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1163095202.18799.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <455370EE.4010807@kewlness.net>


> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:07:40 -0600
> From: "G. Scott Walters" <gscottwalters at gmail.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] hardware and case suggestions
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<34b4c76d0611090807p6fdd5329u8ae30a8028b262f7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> My circa 1998 pc-turned-server lost it's power supply sometime
> yesterday afternoon.
>
> *moment of silence*
>
>   
*mourns* I feel your pain - been there done that.
> Now, I'm shopping for a newer system that I plan on building myself
> and the VERY cheap. Here are my requirements:
> 1) quiet
>   
Depends on fans.  Highly subjective.  What I consider noisy someone else
might not.  If it's really a concern shop around for some low decibel
cooler fans - try TigerDirect.

> 2) child-proof (my 20 month old son enjoys pushing buttons, especially
> power buttons).
>   
Case with a front panel lock - best solution though for kids is an
enclosed server rack with a door - it keeps the little tikes  from
chewing on or pulling out cables besides pushing buttons.

> 3) small
>   
Try a microATX or Shuttle case.
> 4) fast
>   
This changes by the day.  New chips are on the way, so prices and speeds
are all over the place.

> 5) built-in firewire (or available PCI slot)
>   
I haven't seen a motherboard in the last 5-10 years that didn't have at
least 1 PCI slot. A great many of the new ASUS, Abit, and other major
board makers have Firewire as an option on their boards, especially on
the high end.

> So, given these specs, where would be the best place for me to start
> shopping? Any specific hardware recommendations?
>   
Try TigerDirect or CDW.

-- 
T.J.



====================================================
"I believe C++ instills fear in programmers, fear that the 
interaction of some details causes unpredictable results. Its 
unmanageable complexity has spawned more fear-preventing tools 
than any other language, but the solution _should_ have been 
to create and use a language that does not overload the 
whole goddamn human brain with irrelevant details."
-- Erik Naggum

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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  9 12:47:28 2006
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:47:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [Somewhat OT] Twin Cities Drupal Users Group get
	together
Message-ID: <20061109184728.58502.qmail@web53801.mail.yahoo.com>

Some of you folks have mentioned interest in Drupal, so I figured I would forward this.  I've 5 sites up and running on Linux web servers.

Allie Micka <groups at drupal.org> wrote: To: wdtj at yahoo.com
Subject: Twin Cities: 'Twin Cities Drupal' at groups.drupal.org
From: Allie Micka <groups at drupal.org>
Date: Thu,  9 Nov 2006 17:22:50 +0000 (UTC)

 event 'Twin Cities Drupal' by Allie Micka

Start: 2006-11-21 19:00
End: 2006-11-21 21:00
Timezone: America/Chicago
It's the other Great Minnesota Get Together!

Please join us at our inaugural TC Drupal meeting.  We will take this
time to get to know each other and plan our agenda for future meetings. 
Bring questions, tips and ideas.

Location:  

Advantage Labs offices in the IATP building:
2104 Stevens Ave S.
Minneapolis MN 55404
(612) 605-5325

View original: http://groups.drupal.org/node/1816
Post reply: http://groups.drupal.org/comment/reply/1816#comment-form

--
You are subscribed to the group 'Twin Cities' at 'groups.drupal.org'.
To manage your subscription, visit http://groups.drupal.org/og/manage/1334



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu Nov  9 16:43:16 2006
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:43:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg video capture?
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for a way to capture an X.org session into a video.  I've
seen demos of this type of thing on YouTube and other source but my
Google powers are lacking today.  Has anybody done something like
this?


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Nov  9 16:55:48 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:55:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg video capture?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611091455l1cbac202u86d293989ecd401a@mail.gmail.com>

Here's one that outlines using VNC and then converting it to swf:
http://desktops.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/26/1815242&tid=6

There are other methods but this one seemed like the most straight
forward as long as you don't mind the swf format. Disclaimer: I
haven't tried this myself!

Just google for "video vnc" or "video vnc howto" or "video vnc howtos".

Good luck! Let us know how it works.

_Eric

On 11/9/06, Donovan Niesen <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to capture an X.org session into a video.  I've
> seen demos of this type of thing on YouTube and other source but my
> Google powers are lacking today.  Has anybody done something like
> this?
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Nov  9 19:55:44 2006
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:55:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg video capture?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061109195544.e371389b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:43:16 -0600
"Donovan Niesen" <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to capture an X.org session into a video.
> I've seen demos of this type of thing on YouTube and other source
> but my Google powers are lacking today.  Has anybody done
> something like this?

I've done this with videolan using screen:// as the input
source.  Nice thing with this is it also works for Winders.

Josh


From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Nov 10 10:52:29 2006
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:52:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] linux migration study
References: <E8F9B6C95BD88C46B8FABB9503DB7C856D5222@mse1be1.mse1.mailstreet.com>
Message-ID: <ej2aod$a85$1@sea.gmane.org>

Buchen, Amy wrote:

> I'm conducting a study for a Harvard Business School professor on the
> costs associated with migrations between different Linux distributions,

Who is funding your study?

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288



From jeruvin at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 11:37:09 2006
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:37:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] linux migration study
In-Reply-To: <ej2aod$a85$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <E8F9B6C95BD88C46B8FABB9503DB7C856D5222@mse1be1.mse1.mailstreet.com>
	<ej2aod$a85$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0611100937g645d94dcmac7d02cb8534e2b4@mail.gmail.com>

Makes you wonder doesn't it. Not wanting consultants (who would be more
familiar with Linux, I'd think anyway). Hmmmm.

On 11/10/06, Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com> wrote:
>
> Buchen, Amy wrote:
>
> > I'm conducting a study for a Harvard Business School professor on the
> > costs associated with migrations between different Linux distributions,
>
> Who is funding your study?
>
> --
> Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
> http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
> Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From rwh at visi.com  Fri Nov 10 12:40:17 2006
From: rwh at visi.com (rwh)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:40:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] linux migration study
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0611100937g645d94dcmac7d02cb8534e2b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E8F9B6C95BD88C46B8FABB9503DB7C856D5222@mse1be1.mse1.mailstreet.com>	<ej2aod$a85$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<6eb23c4e0611100937g645d94dcmac7d02cb8534e2b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4554C791.9010909@visi.com>

Consultants rarely see the full cost to a company of migrating to new
platforms, so it doesn't seem totally unreasonable to want a company's
take on the cost including training, planning, etc.

--rick


jason reynolds wrote:
> Makes you wonder doesn't it. Not wanting consultants (who would be more
> familiar with Linux, I'd think anyway). Hmmmm.
> 
> On 11/10/06, *Bob Tanner* < tanner at real-time.com
> <mailto:tanner at real-time.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Buchen, Amy wrote:
> 
>     > I'm conducting a study for a Harvard Business School professor on the
>     > costs associated with migrations between different Linux
>     distributions,
> 
>     Who is funding your study?
> 
>     --
>     Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com
>     <mailto:tanner at real-time.com>>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
>     http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
>     Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From pjcrump at bitstream.net  Sat Nov 11 01:20:40 2006
From: pjcrump at bitstream.net (Phillip Crump)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:20:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550 CentOs
	install
Message-ID: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELAEGPDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>

I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives (dual 1ghz
w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4 onto
and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize the hard drives.
(it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and the RAID bios recognizes
both drives as being in "optimal" state).  I start the
installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes. All other
hardware is found
except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails because there the
drives can't be found.

I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this seems to be an
issue with installing linux
on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver and have
tried many of the
things out there to no avail.

To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html

Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!

P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no avail.


PJ




From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com  Sat Nov 11 08:00:03 2006
From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:00:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550 CentOs
	install
In-Reply-To: <bada98250611110559l4d8f2574o73f8f1b4351eb85@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELAEGPDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
	<bada98250611110559l4d8f2574o73f8f1b4351eb85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bada98250611110600m4562db24le8666b37836d3d0b@mail.gmail.com>

Same issue for me with a PowerEdge 860. Tried the standard SuSE version to
no avail, turns out when they say 'supported OS' it's primarily the drivers
they are talking about. Supposedly SuSE Enterprise Edition has the requisite
drivers so I'm giving that a try on Monday.

Even setting up RAID in the BIOS doesn't help the installer recognize the
hard drives, so I understand your frustration.

-- 

Jordan Peacock
hewhocutsdown at gmail.com
hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com

-- 

Jordan Peacock
hewhocutsdown at gmail.com
hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com
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From adam at askewview.net  Sat Nov 11 09:34:59 2006
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:34:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
 CentOs install
In-Reply-To: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELAEGPDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
References: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELAEGPDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
Message-ID: <4555EDA3.6060903@askewview.net>

Phillip,
I've noticed that issue with older AMI MEGARAID controllers. LSI Logic 
bought AMI a while back and in subsequent driver releases support has 
been dropped for the AMI controllers. CentOS/Fedora will load the 
megaraid kernel module but it will not work with the AMI cards.

-Adam

Phillip Crump wrote:
> I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives (dual 1ghz
> w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4 onto
> and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize the hard drives.
> (it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and the RAID bios recognizes
> both drives as being in "optimal" state).  I start the
> installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes. All other
> hardware is found
> except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails because there the
> drives can't be found.
>
> I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this seems to be an
> issue with installing linux
> on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver and have
> tried many of the
> things out there to no avail.
>
> To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html
>
> Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!
>
> P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no avail.
>
>
> PJ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From josh at tcbug.org  Sat Nov 11 09:35:01 2006
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:35:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
	CentOs install
In-Reply-To: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELAEGPDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
References: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELAEGPDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
Message-ID: <200611110935.01899.josh@tcbug.org>

On Saturday 11 November 2006 01:20, Phillip Crump wrote:
> I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives
> (dual 1ghz w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4 onto
> and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize the hard
> drives. (it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and the RAID
> bios recognizes both drives as being in "optimal" state).  I start
> the
> installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes. All
> other hardware is found
> except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails because
> there the drives can't be found.
>
> I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this seems
> to be an issue with installing linux
> on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver
> and have tried many of the
> things out there to no avail.
>
> To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html
>
> Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!
>
> P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no avail.
>
>
> PJ

If memory serves there were a few different RAID controllers available 
for the 1550.  Since you don't mention which controller yours has 
it's only possible to offer suggestions.

One possibility is that there simply isn't a linux driver for it, in 
which case it isn't going to matter which distro you try to install 
on it.  It's just not going to work.

Another option that you may have is that some of the RAID controllers 
that Dell used (the PERC/3's come to mind) had the ability to emulate 
a plain SCSI controller.  This was generally togglable in the BIOS.  
If yours has this option it's possible that it will emulate something 
that there is a driver for.  I have actually run into this before 
with the PE2450s.  In SCSI mode the controller appeared as an adaptec 
78xx which had a driver, in RAID mode it was something completely 
different (what exactly it was escapes me at the moment).

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From pjcrump at bitstream.net  Sat Nov 11 10:24:40 2006
From: pjcrump at bitstream.net (Phillip Crump)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:24:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
	CentOs install
In-Reply-To: <4555EDA3.6060903@askewview.net>
Message-ID: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELCEHDDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>

What I'm finding is that the raid card is an Adaptec 2100S.  Would all my
problems go away if
I get a new RAID card?  If so, what model would people recommed.. I need one
that is 1/2 size due
to Mobo restrictions.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam [mailto:adam at askewview.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:35 AM
To: pjcrump at bitstream.net
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
CentOs install


Phillip,
I've noticed that issue with older AMI MEGARAID controllers. LSI Logic
bought AMI a while back and in subsequent driver releases support has
been dropped for the AMI controllers. CentOS/Fedora will load the
megaraid kernel module but it will not work with the AMI cards.

-Adam

Phillip Crump wrote:
> I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives (dual
1ghz
> w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4 onto
> and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize the hard
drives.
> (it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and the RAID bios recognizes
> both drives as being in "optimal" state).  I start the
> installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes. All other
> hardware is found
> except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails because there
the
> drives can't be found.
>
> I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this seems to be
an
> issue with installing linux
> on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver and have
> tried many of the
> things out there to no avail.
>
> To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html
>
> Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!
>
> P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no avail.
>
>
> PJ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>





From josh at tcbug.org  Sat Nov 11 10:24:32 2006
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:24:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
	CentOs install
In-Reply-To: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELGEHCDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
References: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELGEHCDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
Message-ID: <200611111024.32875.josh@tcbug.org>

On Saturday 11 November 2006 10:15, Phillip Crump wrote:
> The raid card is an Adaptec 2100S.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:35 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; pjcrump at bitstream.net
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge
> 1550 CentOs install
>
> On Saturday 11 November 2006 01:20, Phillip Crump wrote:
> > I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives
> > (dual 1ghz w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4
> > onto and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize
> > the hard drives. (it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and
> > the RAID bios recognizes both drives as being in "optimal"
> > state).  I start the
> > installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes.
> > All other hardware is found
> > except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails
> > because there the drives can't be found.
> >
> > I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this
> > seems to be an issue with installing linux
> > on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver
> > and have tried many of the
> > things out there to no avail.
> >
> > To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
> > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html
> >
> > Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!
> >
> > P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no
> > avail.
> >
> >
> > PJ
>
> If memory serves there were a few different RAID controllers
> available for the 1550.  Since you don't mention which controller
> yours has it's only possible to offer suggestions.
>
> One possibility is that there simply isn't a linux driver for it,
> in which case it isn't going to matter which distro you try to
> install on it.  It's just not going to work.
>
> Another option that you may have is that some of the RAID
> controllers that Dell used (the PERC/3's come to mind) had the
> ability to emulate a plain SCSI controller.  This was generally
> togglable in the BIOS. If yours has this option it's possible that
> it will emulate something that there is a driver for.  I have
> actually run into this before with the PE2450s.  In SCSI mode the
> controller appeared as an adaptec 78xx which had a driver, in RAID
> mode it was something completely different (what exactly it was
> escapes me at the moment).

There are no drivers for this controller in the kernel.  There are 
linux drivers provided by adaptec on their website.  If you are going 
to use it as a boot device you will have to get the drivers onto a 
floppy or CD and then load them during the install. (the procedure 
for which will be distro-specific) Once you get installed you'll 
either have to compile the drivers into the kernel or load them as a 
module in order to be able to boot from the RAID array.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From pjcrump at bitstream.net  Sat Nov 11 11:00:38 2006
From: pjcrump at bitstream.net (Phillip Crump)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:00:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
	CentOs install
In-Reply-To: <200611111024.32875.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELMEHDDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>

That's the process that I tried and it does not work..  I guess at this
point I'm just looking for a RAID
controller that is natively supported by the 2.6 kernel..  Any suggestions?

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: pjcrump at bitstream.net; tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
CentOs install


On Saturday 11 November 2006 10:15, Phillip Crump wrote:
> The raid card is an Adaptec 2100S.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:35 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; pjcrump at bitstream.net
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge
> 1550 CentOs install
>
> On Saturday 11 November 2006 01:20, Phillip Crump wrote:
> > I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives
> > (dual 1ghz w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4
> > onto and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize
> > the hard drives. (it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and
> > the RAID bios recognizes both drives as being in "optimal"
> > state).  I start the
> > installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes.
> > All other hardware is found
> > except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails
> > because there the drives can't be found.
> >
> > I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this
> > seems to be an issue with installing linux
> > on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver
> > and have tried many of the
> > things out there to no avail.
> >
> > To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
> > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html
> >
> > Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!
> >
> > P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no
> > avail.
> >
> >
> > PJ
>
> If memory serves there were a few different RAID controllers
> available for the 1550.  Since you don't mention which controller
> yours has it's only possible to offer suggestions.
>
> One possibility is that there simply isn't a linux driver for it,
> in which case it isn't going to matter which distro you try to
> install on it.  It's just not going to work.
>
> Another option that you may have is that some of the RAID
> controllers that Dell used (the PERC/3's come to mind) had the
> ability to emulate a plain SCSI controller.  This was generally
> togglable in the BIOS. If yours has this option it's possible that
> it will emulate something that there is a driver for.  I have
> actually run into this before with the PE2450s.  In SCSI mode the
> controller appeared as an adaptec 78xx which had a driver, in RAID
> mode it was something completely different (what exactly it was
> escapes me at the moment).

There are no drivers for this controller in the kernel.  There are
linux drivers provided by adaptec on their website.  If you are going
to use it as a boot device you will have to get the drivers onto a
floppy or CD and then load them during the install. (the procedure
for which will be distro-specific) Once you get installed you'll
either have to compile the drivers into the kernel or load them as a
module in order to be able to boot from the RAID array.

--
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel




From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 14 09:16:39 2006
From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:16:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
	CentOs install
In-Reply-To: <9d6c82530611140715w17cdc661i4c259875e3684a1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200611111024.32875.josh@tcbug.org>
	<BJEHKFMCAAHCHIHAMNELMEHDDBAA.pjcrump@bitstream.net>
	<9d6c82530611140715w17cdc661i4c259875e3684a1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d6c82530611140716r2b570bd1n757c2f67ff3ea3e1@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, forgot to reply to all...

I was able to set up a megaraid device by co...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeff Rasmussen <jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:15:21 -0600
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
CentOs install
To: pjcrump at bitstream.net

I was able to set up a megaraid device by configuring the drives as
seperate drives, not in a raid (unless that is a raid in itself). I
was then able to install Debian or Ubuntu on the first drive and used
the second drive as /var/lib/bacuppc.

I believe I could have set up a software raid if that was necessary
for my project.

Jeff Rasmussen


On 11/11/06, Phillip Crump <pjcrump at bitstream.net> wrote:
> That's the process that I tried and it does not work..  I guess at this
> point I'm just looking for a RAID
> controller that is natively supported by the 2.6 kernel..  Any suggestions?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:25 AM
> To: pjcrump at bitstream.net; tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge 1550
> CentOs install
>
>
> On Saturday 11 November 2006 10:15, Phillip Crump wrote:
> > The raid card is an Adaptec 2100S.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:josh at tcbug.org]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:35 AM
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; pjcrump at bitstream.net
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Drives Not Recognized on Dell Poweredge
> > 1550 CentOs install
> >
> > On Saturday 11 November 2006 01:20, Phillip Crump wrote:
> > > I have a new (used)Dell Poweredge 1550 server with 2 scsi drives
> > > (dual 1ghz w/ 2048MB) that I'm attempting to install CentOs 4
> > > onto and am having problems getting the darn thing to recognize
> > > the hard drives. (it's worth noting that it's running RAID 0 and
> > > the RAID bios recognizes both drives as being in "optimal"
> > > state).  I start the
> > > installation process and all is going well until it autoprobes.
> > > All other hardware is found
> > > except for the hard drives. The install subsequently fails
> > > because there the drives can't be found.
> > >
> > > I have been googling my brain out over the last week and this
> > > seems to be an issue with installing linux
> > > on this particular server model. (surrounding the megaraid driver
> > > and have tried many of the
> > > things out there to no avail.
> > >
> > > To see what I have been trying checkout this mailing list entry:
> > > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-August/010021.html
> > >
> > > Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated!
> > >
> > > P.S. I have tried to install Debian, Mandrake and FC6 to no
> > > avail.
> > >
> > >
> > > PJ
> >
> > If memory serves there were a few different RAID controllers
> > available for the 1550.  Since you don't mention which controller
> > yours has it's only possible to offer suggestions.
> >
> > One possibility is that there simply isn't a linux driver for it,
> > in which case it isn't going to matter which distro you try to
> > install on it.  It's just not going to work.
> >
> > Another option that you may have is that some of the RAID
> > controllers that Dell used (the PERC/3's come to mind) had the
> > ability to emulate a plain SCSI controller.  This was generally
> > togglable in the BIOS. If yours has this option it's possible that
> > it will emulate something that there is a driver for.  I have
> > actually run into this before with the PE2450s.  In SCSI mode the
> > controller appeared as an adaptec 78xx which had a driver, in RAID
> > mode it was something completely different (what exactly it was
> > escapes me at the moment).
>
> There are no drivers for this controller in the kernel.  There are
> linux drivers provided by adaptec on their website.  If you are going
> to use it as a boot device you will have to get the drivers onto a
> floppy or CD and then load them during the install. (the procedure
> for which will be distro-specific) Once you get installed you'll
> either have to compile the drivers into the kernel or load them as a
> module in order to be able to boot from the RAID array.
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Josh Paetzel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Jeff Rasmussen
GPG public key 0x9686C12F



-- 
Jeff Rasmussen
GPG public key 0x9686C12F


From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Tue Nov 14 13:50:58 2006
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A (MN14))
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:50:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
Message-ID: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F627C@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

I have a couple old systems that were upgraded from Red Hat 7.2 to 7.3.
The Fedora Legacy Project says they will discontinue support for Red Hat
Linux 7.3 and 9 effective December 31st of this year (2006).
http://fedoralegacy.org/ 

I want to do one final update, but yum still thinks it's running 7.2.
Where does Yum get the $releasever variable?

# cat /proc/version
Linux version 2.4.20-28.7 (bhcompile at porky.devel.redhat.com) (gcc
version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-126)) #1 Thu Dec 18
11:31:59 EST 2003

# yum update
Gathering package information from servers
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.2 base
Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.2
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.2 updates
Finding updated packages
Downloading needed headers
No Packages Available for Update
No actions to take

# cat /etc/yum.conf
[main]
cachedir=/var/cache/yum
debuglevel=2
logfile=/var/log/yum.log
pkgpolicy=newest
exactarch=1
exclude=kernel*

[base]
name=Red Hat Linux $releasever base
baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/os/$basearch
gpgcheck=1

[updates]
name=Red Hat Linux $releasever updates
baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/updates/$bas
earch
gpgcheck=1

[legacy-utils]
name=Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux $releasever
baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/legacy-utils
/$basearch
gpgcheck=1


Thanks.

== Craig A. Smith 




From josh at joshwelch.com  Tue Nov 14 15:24:49 2006
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:24:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F627C@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
References: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F627C@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <20061114152449.a0x5svrhogocgkok@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>

I'm not sure where Yum gets that, but there is an /etc/redhat-release 
that contains that information, perhaps it is getting it there?

Quoting "Smith, Craig A (MN14)" <Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com>:

> I have a couple old systems that were upgraded from Red Hat 7.2 to 7.3.
> The Fedora Legacy Project says they will discontinue support for Red Hat
> Linux 7.3 and 9 effective December 31st of this year (2006).
> http://fedoralegacy.org/
>
> I want to do one final update, but yum still thinks it's running 7.2.
> Where does Yum get the $releasever variable?
>
> # cat /proc/version
> Linux version 2.4.20-28.7 (bhcompile at porky.devel.redhat.com) (gcc
> version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-126)) #1 Thu Dec 18
> 11:31:59 EST 2003
>
> # yum update
> Gathering package information from servers
> Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.2 base
> Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.2
> Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.2 updates
> Finding updated packages
> Downloading needed headers
> No Packages Available for Update
> No actions to take
>
> # cat /etc/yum.conf
> [main]
> cachedir=/var/cache/yum
> debuglevel=2
> logfile=/var/log/yum.log
> pkgpolicy=newest
> exactarch=1
> exclude=kernel*
>
> [base]
> name=Red Hat Linux $releasever base
> baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/os/$basearch
> gpgcheck=1
>
> [updates]
> name=Red Hat Linux $releasever updates
> baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/updates/$bas
> earch
> gpgcheck=1
>
> [legacy-utils]
> name=Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux $releasever
> baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/legacy-utils
> /$basearch
> gpgcheck=1
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> == Craig A. Smith
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 14 16:43:42 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:43:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <20061114152449.a0x5svrhogocgkok@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
References: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F627C@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<20061114152449.a0x5svrhogocgkok@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611141443n38f617c9yda3283a79f800cc0@mail.gmail.com>

yum grabs the variable 'distroverpkg' from /etc/yum.conf. It then
looks in the RPM database for a package with that name. So on CentOS
it looks for a package called centos-release. Fedora, at least as of
version 4, seems to act a little differently, but it should work this
way for RH 7.2/7.3.

Consequently, the ***-release RPM package also installs the
/etc/***-release data.

You may want to grab the latest redhat-release package from
rpm.pbone.net or other source. I checked and it looks like there is
one out there.

Good luck!

-Eric

On 11/14/06, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure where Yum gets that, but there is an /etc/redhat-release
> that contains that information, perhaps it is getting it there?
>
> Quoting "Smith, Craig A (MN14)" <Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com>:
>
> > I have a couple old systems that were upgraded from Red Hat 7.2 to 7.3.
> > The Fedora Legacy Project says they will discontinue support for Red Hat
> > Linux 7.3 and 9 effective December 31st of this year (2006).
> > http://fedoralegacy.org/
> >
> > I want to do one final update, but yum still thinks it's running 7.2.
> > Where does Yum get the $releasever variable?
> >
> > # cat /proc/version
> > Linux version 2.4.20-28.7 (bhcompile at porky.devel.redhat.com) (gcc
> > version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-126)) #1 Thu Dec 18
> > 11:31:59 EST 2003
> >
> > # yum update
> > Gathering package information from servers
> > Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.2 base
> > Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.2
> > Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.2 updates
> > Finding updated packages
> > Downloading needed headers
> > No Packages Available for Update
> > No actions to take
> >
> > # cat /etc/yum.conf
> > [main]
> > cachedir=/var/cache/yum
> > debuglevel=2
> > logfile=/var/log/yum.log
> > pkgpolicy=newest
> > exactarch=1
> > exclude=kernel*
> >
> > [base]
> > name=Red Hat Linux $releasever base
> > baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/os/$basearch
> > gpgcheck=1
> >
> > [updates]
> > name=Red Hat Linux $releasever updates
> > baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/updates/$bas
> > earch
> > gpgcheck=1
> >
> > [legacy-utils]
> > name=Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux $releasever
> > baseurl=http://download.fedoralegacy.org/redhat/$releasever/legacy-utils
> > /$basearch
> > gpgcheck=1
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > == Craig A. Smith
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Wed Nov 15 07:58:31 2006
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A (MN14))
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:58:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <20061114152449.a0x5svrhogocgkok@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F64E1@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

On 11/14/06, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure where Yum gets that, but there is an /etc/redhat-release 
> that contains that information, perhaps it is getting it there?

I changed 7.2 to 7.3 in:

/etc/redhat-release 
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/systemid  
/etc/issue
/etc/issue.net

but Yum stubbornly continues looking for 7.2 packages.




From jima at beer.tclug.org  Wed Nov 15 08:34:26 2006
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:34:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F64E1@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
References: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F64E1@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611150829380.2481@beer.tclug.org>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006, Smith, Craig A (MN14) wrote:
> On 11/14/06, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure where Yum gets that, but there is an /etc/redhat-release
>> that contains that information, perhaps it is getting it there?
>
> I changed 7.2 to 7.3 in:
>
> /etc/redhat-release
> /etc/sysconfig/rhn/systemid
> /etc/issue
> /etc/issue.net
>
> but Yum stubbornly continues looking for 7.2 packages.

  I could be wrong, but Yum might be looking at the version field on the 
(installed) redhat-release RPM.  You might try (for instance):

rpm -Fvh ftp://fr.rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/7.3/en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/redhat-release-7.3-1.noarch.rpm

  Not sure if there might be any dependency blockers (as we're playing on 
the non-automagically-resolved level), but that's the jist of it.

      Jima


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov 15 08:32:40 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:32:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F64E1@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
References: <20061114152449.a0x5svrhogocgkok@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
	<AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F64E1@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611150632p1036fd8xaffccd982afa1258@mail.gmail.com>

You need to install the 7.3 redhat-release RPM. Like I explained
earlier it looks to the RPM database to see what version of redhat
you're running. Those files are just to make it easier for you to see
what version you're running.

-Eric

On 11/15/06, Smith, Craig A (MN14) <Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com> wrote:
> On 11/14/06, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
> > I'm not sure where Yum gets that, but there is an /etc/redhat-release
> > that contains that information, perhaps it is getting it there?
>
> I changed 7.2 to 7.3 in:
>
> /etc/redhat-release
> /etc/sysconfig/rhn/systemid
> /etc/issue
> /etc/issue.net
>
> but Yum stubbornly continues looking for 7.2 packages.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Wed Nov 15 08:43:11 2006
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A (MN14))
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:43:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30611141443n38f617c9yda3283a79f800cc0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F6553@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

Eric Peterson wrote:
> yum grabs the variable 'distroverpkg' from /etc/yum.conf.

Thanks Eric.  I see that variable on a Red Hat 9 system.  Unfortunately,
'distroverpkg' does not appear in /etc/yum.conf on the Red Hat 7.3
system in question (which I'm beginning to suspect was imperfectly
upgraded from 7.2).  

So I hard-coded a '7.3' in place of $releasever in /etc/yum.conf and
that seems to do the trick:

# yum check-update
Gathering package information from servers
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 base
Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.3
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 updates
Finding updated packages
Downloading needed headers

<lots-of-stuff ...>
 
Now just I have to decide if I should risk breaking things.




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov 15 09:18:06 2006
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:18:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F6553@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
References: <579c6fd30611141443n38f617c9yda3283a79f800cc0@mail.gmail.com>
	<AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F6553@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30611150718i2d33ad66x8550eecf79baa9f6@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/15/06, Smith, Craig A (MN14) <Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com> wrote:

> Now just I have to decide if I should risk breaking things.

Yep, that's always the "fun" part!

Good luck!

-Eric


From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Wed Nov 15 09:31:15 2006
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A (MN14))
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:31:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yum help please
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30611150632p1036fd8xaffccd982afa1258@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC015F65F3@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

Eric Peterson wrote:
> You need to install the 7.3 redhat-release RPM. 

That did it!  Thanks for the help Eric.  
For the record, with 7.3 hard-coded in /etc/yum.conf I ran:

# yum install redhat-release
Gathering package information from servers
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 base
Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.3
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 updates
Finding updated packages
Downloading needed headers
Resolving dependencies
Dependencies resolved
I will do the following:
[update: redhat-release.noarch]
Is this ok [y/N]: y
Getting redhat-release-7.3-1.noarch.rpm
Calculating available disk space - this could take a bit
redhat-release 100 % done
Updated:  redhat-release.noarch
Transaction(s) Complete


Then I restored the original yum.conf (changing the hard-coded value
back to "$releasever") and Yum now correctly identifies the system.

# yum check-update 
Gathering package information from servers
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 base
Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.3
Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 updates
Finding updated packages
Downloading needed headers
<lots of stuff>





From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu Nov 16 07:48:42 2006
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg video capture?
In-Reply-To: <20061109195544.e371389b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061109195544.e371389b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70611160548gdd31a66mf586c934e2b8e11b@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/06, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:43:16 -0600
> "Donovan Niesen" <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for a way to capture an X.org session into a video.
> > I've seen demos of this type of thing on YouTube and other source
> > but my Google powers are lacking today.  Has anybody done
> > something like this?
>
> I've done this with videolan using screen:// as the input
> source.  Nice thing with this is it also works for Winders.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

VLC worked like a charm for this.  Thank you!


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Nov 16 09:11:30 2006
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:11:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg video capture?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70611160548gdd31a66mf586c934e2b8e11b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70611091443t2f7ee9b6td6697c62cd6c1daa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061109195544.e371389b.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<47f4d5e70611160548gdd31a66mf586c934e2b8e11b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061116091130.00fbaa11.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:42 -0600
"Donovan Niesen" <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/9/06, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:43:16 -0600
> > "Donovan Niesen" <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm looking for a way to capture an X.org session into a
> > > video. I've seen demos of this type of thing on YouTube and
> > > other source but my Google powers are lacking today.  Has
> > > anybody done something like this?
> >
> > I've done this with videolan using screen:// as the input
> > source.  Nice thing with this is it also works for Winders.
>
> VLC worked like a charm for this.  Thank you!

Good deal - videolan is pretty sweet.

Josh


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Nov 16 13:58:55 2006
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:58:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200611161958.kAGJwtq00651@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: New TCLUG Classified Ad

I have six, never used, 4.3 GB Wide-Ultra SCSI-3 hard drives that are from a Compaq file server, of what I assume would be a late 90s vintage. I got them for nothing over two years ago, thinking I could just take appart the case and have a regualar SCSI drive. Not so. Those of you who are familiar with Compaq servers and hot swap drive know what I'm talking about. I'd be willing to swap them for some other hardware that is no longer cutting edge, such as one or two regular SCSI-3 drives, of at least 9GB in capacity, 500MB thumb drives, 17" LCD display, etc.

Seller Email address: djp at visi dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Fri Nov 17 15:53:17 2006
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:53:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL 5 and PHP 5 on fresh Debian install
Message-ID: <34b4c76d0611171353x4ac264diee7478ceef3699ab@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to install MySQL 5 and PHP 5 onto a fresh build of Debian
VM. However, I can't seem to apt-get either of them to install via
apt-get. I'm guessing that I need additional sources  in my
source.list file.

Currently, my file looks like this:

deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sarge main
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main

deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main

any thoughts?

-- 
-
G. Scott Walters
http://www.apt518.net


From s.earl.martin at gmail.com  Fri Nov 17 16:10:52 2006
From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:10:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL 5 and PHP 5 on fresh Debian install
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0611171353x4ac264diee7478ceef3699ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0611171353x4ac264diee7478ceef3699ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d9a50e890611171410o4b3756e4l225a89c7d1667894@mail.gmail.com>


From ryan.langseth at gmail.com  Fri Nov 17 16:18:11 2006
From: ryan.langseth at gmail.com (Ryan Langseth)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:18:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL 5 and PHP 5 on fresh Debian install
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0611171353x4ac264diee7478ceef3699ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0611171353x4ac264diee7478ceef3699ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b6371f9f0611171418v195a201bg363e9f69355c3945@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/17/06, G. Scott Walters <gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to install MySQL 5 and PHP 5 onto a fresh build of Debian
> VM. However, I can't seem to apt-get either of them to install via
> apt-get. I'm guessing that I need additional sources  in my
> source.list file.
>
> Currently, my file looks like this:
>
> deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sarge main
> deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main
> deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main
>
> any thoughts?
Unless you are really, really, worried about stablity, I would just go
ahead an upgrade to using etch, They are planning on releasing it to
stable this year still.


deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ etch main non-free contrib
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ etch main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ etch main non-free contrib

deb http://security.debian.org/ etch/updates main non-free contrib


then
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade

Since you are working with VMware take a snapshot before making the
changes and see if it works for you. You can always rollback then.

Ryan


From vc.lists at gmail.com  Sat Nov 18 10:34:56 2006
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 10:34:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
Message-ID: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to mount the root filesystem of a FC 5 installation from a
Knoppix Live CD. The root filesystem is setup on a logical volume.


From florin at iucha.net  Sat Nov 18 10:53:37 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 10:53:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061118165336.GB10870@iucha.net>

On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 10:34:56AM -0600, Venkat Chandra wrote:
> I am trying to mount the root filesystem of a FC 5 installation from a
> Knoppix Live CD. The root filesystem is setup on a logical volume.
> 
> From Knoppix, fdisk -l gives me:
> 
> root at 1[knoppix]# fdisk -l
> 
> Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80000000000 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9726 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sda1   *           1        4462    35840983+   7  HPFS/NTFS
> /dev/sda2            4463        4475      104422+  83  Linux
> /dev/sda3            4476        9726    42178657+  8e  Linux LVM
> 
> So when I try to mount /dev/sda3 on a mount point (say on an existing
> directory /mnt/linux), mount asks for the type of filesystem. I know it's
> ext3 and I specify the same. It spits an error saying that it can't find an
> ext3 filesystem on /dev/sda3.

/dev/sda3 is a LVM physical module, so you cannot mount it directly.

> Here's the /etc/fstab on FC 5:
> 
> [root at FC5 ~]# cat /etc/fstab
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 /                       ext3    defaults        1 1
> LABEL=/boot             /boot                   ext3    defaults        1 2
> devpts                  /dev/pts                devpts  gid=5,mode=620  0 0
> tmpfs                   /dev/shm                tmpfs   defaults        0 0
> proc                    /proc                   proc    defaults        0 0
> sysfs                   /sys                    sysfs   defaults        0 0
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 swap                    swap    defaults        0 0
> [root at FC5 ~]#
> 
> I tried mounting /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and it says there's no such
> partition.
> 
> Any ideas on what I am doing wrong and how I can mount the "/" from Knoppix?

Have you tried running "vgscan" first?  It should scan the disks and
rebuild the device nodes.

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From sfertch at gmail.com  Sat Nov 18 12:30:34 2006
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 12:30:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <20061118165336.GB10870@iucha.net>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061118165336.GB10870@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <67f3084a0611181030r73df7a6ep4d81cbca1a7789ef@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/18/06, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
>
> /dev/sda3 is a LVM physical module, so you cannot mount it directly.
>
> Have you tried running "vgscan" first?  It should scan the disks and
> rebuild the device nodes.
>

I agree with Florin.  Once you run vgscan, you may need to activate the
volume group:

# vgscan
# vgchange -a y <volumegroup name>
# mount /dev/<VGname>/<lvolname> /mnt/dir

Then you should be able to access your filesystem(s).


For future reference, you might want to consider a layout such as this:

/dev/[hs]da1                       /boot                (primary partition)
/dev/[hs]da2                       swap                (primary partition)
/dev/[hs]da3                       /                       (primary
partition)
/dev/[hs]da4                       LVM                 (primary partition)


/dev/[hs]da4            Consists of the following:

/dev/vg00
/dev/vg00/lvol1            /usr
/dev/vg00/lvol2            /var
/dev/vg00/lvol3            /opt
/dev/vg00/lvol4            /tmp
/dev/vg00/lvol5            /home



A layout such as this allows you to mount your / partition via  a rescue CD
without having to perform all the vgscan/vgchange/etc steps mentioned
above.  Most times, you only need to access the / partition.  But, if you
need to access the others, then you can activate the VG.

Your /boot and / paritions are not going to change over the life of the
system, thus putting them and swap on primaries.  After that, allocate the
rest of your drive to LVM.

This is how I prefer to do my systems, and I haven't had an issue yet with
this configuration.

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
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From nate at ima.umn.edu  Mon Nov 20 08:46:22 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:46:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu>

I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with /boot (which
cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
partition for the reasons you've now learned.


Venkat Chandra wrote:
> I am trying to mount the root filesystem of a FC 5 installation from a
> Knoppix Live CD. The root filesystem is setup on a logical volume.
>  
> From Knoppix, fdisk -l gives me:
>  
> root at 1[knoppix]# fdisk -l
>
> Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80000000000 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9726 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sda1   *           1        4462    35840983+   7  HPFS/NTFS
> /dev/sda2            4463        4475      104422+  83  Linux
> /dev/sda3            4476        9726    42178657+  8e  Linux LVM
>  
> So when I try to mount /dev/sda3 on a mount point (say on an existing
> directory /mnt/linux), mount asks for the type of filesystem. I know
> it's ext3 and I specify the same. It spits an error saying that it
> can't find an ext3 filesystem on /dev/sda3.
>  
> Here's the /etc/fstab on FC 5:
>  
> [root at FC5 ~]# cat /etc/fstab
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 /                       ext3   
> defaults        1 1
> LABEL=/boot             /boot                   ext3   
> defaults        1 2
> devpts                  /dev/pts                devpts 
> gid=5,mode=620  0 0
> tmpfs                   /dev/shm                tmpfs  
> defaults        0 0
> proc                    /proc                   proc   
> defaults        0 0
> sysfs                   /sys                    sysfs  
> defaults        0 0
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 swap                    swap   
> defaults        0 0
> [root at FC5 ~]#
>  
> I tried mounting /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and it says there's no such
> partition.
>  
>  
> Any ideas on what I am doing wrong and how I can mount the "/" from
> Knoppix?
>  
> Thanks,
> V.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


-- 
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications




From florin at iucha.net  Mon Nov 20 09:13:17 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:13:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>

On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 08:46:22AM -0600, Nate Sanders wrote:
> I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with /boot (which
> cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
> partition for the reasons you've now learned.

It depends.  If you have root on LVM you can snapshot it and have nice
backups.  Granted, / should not be changing much at the hour you are
doing the backups, but still...

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From nate at ima.umn.edu  Mon Nov 20 09:40:39 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:40:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu>
	<20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <4561CC77.7030705@ima.umn.edu>

I rsnapshot all my roots for protection.


Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 08:46:22AM -0600, Nate Sanders wrote:
>   
>> I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with /boot (which
>> cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
>> partition for the reasons you've now learned.
>>     
>
> It depends.  If you have root on LVM you can snapshot it and have nice
> backups.  Granted, / should not be changing much at the hour you are
> doing the backups, but still...
>
> florin
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


-- 
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications




From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 11:44:49 2006
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:44:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu> <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/20/06, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 08:46:22AM -0600, Nate Sanders wrote:
> > I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with /boot (which
> > cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
> > partition for the reasons you've now learned.
>
> It depends.  If you have root on LVM you can snapshot it and have nice
> backups.  Granted, / should not be changing much at the hour you are
> doing the backups, but still...



Isn't snapshot a function of the filesystem type and not LVM?


-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
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From nate at ima.umn.edu  Mon Nov 20 13:07:46 2006
From: nate at ima.umn.edu (Nate Sanders)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:07:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu>
	<20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
	<67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4561FD02.1030902@ima.umn.edu>

LVM has it's own snapshot system
(http://www.hccfl.edu/pollock/AUnix1/LVM.htm#Snapshots)

Shawn Fertch wrote:
> On 11/20/06, *Florin Iucha* <florin at iucha.net
> <mailto:florin at iucha.net>> wrote:
>
>     On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 08:46:22AM -0600, Nate Sanders wrote:
>     > I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with
>     /boot (which
>     > cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
>     > partition for the reasons you've now learned.
>
>     It depends.  If you have root on LVM you can snapshot it and have nice
>     backups.  Granted, / should not be changing much at the hour you are
>     doing the backups, but still...
>
>
>
> Isn't snapshot a function of the filesystem type and not LVM?
>
>
> -- 
> -Shawn
>
> -Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


-- 
Nate Sanders                  nate at ima.umn.edu
Associate Systems Manager     (612) 624 - 4353
Institute for Mathematics and its Applications




From florin at iucha.net  Mon Nov 20 13:17:55 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:17:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu> <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
	<67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061120191755.GB20036@iucha.net>

On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 11:44:49AM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote:
> >> I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with /boot (which
> >> cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
> >> partition for the reasons you've now learned.
> >
> >It depends.  If you have root on LVM you can snapshot it and have nice
> >backups.  Granted, / should not be changing much at the hour you are
> >doing the backups, but still...
> 
> Isn't snapshot a function of the filesystem type and not LVM?

Snapshot is a function of the block device.  Some filesystems, such as
XFS have a built-in freeze/dump capability which can simulate it
pretty well.  What LVM snapshot is able to do, is allow you to
"freeze" a block device for online back-up while writing pending
modifications to a separate block device this eliminating the
down-time.

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From sac at cheesecake.org  Mon Nov 20 22:15:44 2006
From: sac at cheesecake.org (Sidney Cammeresi)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:15:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <20061120191755.GB20036@iucha.net>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu> <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
	<67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061120191755.GB20036@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <20061121041544.GA18779@cheesecake.org>

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 at 13.17.55 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 11:44:49AM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote:
> > >> I suggest in the future you do not LVM root (/). Along with /boot (which
> > >> cannot be LVM'd) it is a good idea to avoid doing it on your root
> > >> partition for the reasons you've now learned.
> > >
> > >It depends.  If you have root on LVM you can snapshot it and have nice
> > >backups.  Granted, / should not be changing much at the hour you are
> > >doing the backups, but still...
> > 
> > Isn't snapshot a function of the filesystem type and not LVM?
> 
> Snapshot is a function of the block device.  Some filesystems, such as
> XFS have a built-in freeze/dump capability which can simulate it
> pretty well.  What LVM snapshot is able to do, is allow you to
> "freeze" a block device for online back-up while writing pending

The filesystem has a little to do with it, I think.  My memory is hazy,
but I vaguely remember once having a problem where I'd make a snapshot
LV, but when I mounted it, it was inconsistent and needed an fsck.

Given that the filesystem was contained in a snapshot LV, this process
did not exactly get too far off the ground....

-- 
Sidney CAMMERESI
http://www.cheesecake.org/sac/


From nate at refried.org  Tue Nov 21 07:31:19 2006
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:31:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mounting a Linux LVM
In-Reply-To: <20061121041544.GA18779@cheesecake.org>
References: <1efb4e050611180834u797fbce4j6c7e705c4bbe607d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4561BFBE.4040003@ima.umn.edu> <20061120151317.GA20036@iucha.net>
	<67f3084a0611200944m2ef7a048xa49ed3ea21917960@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061120191755.GB20036@iucha.net>
	<20061121041544.GA18779@cheesecake.org>
Message-ID: <20061121133119.GA27458@refried.org>

On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 10:15:44PM -0600, Sidney Cammeresi wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 at 13.17.55 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 20, 2006 at 11:44:49AM -0600, Shawn Fertch wrote:
> > > Isn't snapshot a function of the filesystem type and not LVM?
> > 
> > Snapshot is a function of the block device.  Some filesystems, such as
> > XFS have a built-in freeze/dump capability which can simulate it
> > pretty well.  What LVM snapshot is able to do, is allow you to
> > "freeze" a block device for online back-up while writing pending
> 
> The filesystem has a little to do with it, I think.  My memory is hazy,
> but I vaguely remember once having a problem where I'd make a snapshot
> LV, but when I mounted it, it was inconsistent and needed an fsck.
> 
> Given that the filesystem was contained in a snapshot LV, this process
> did not exactly get too far off the ground....

The freeze/thaw functionality is part of the VFS to enable snapshots.
When you create a snapshot with LVM2, it tells the VFS that it needs to
get the file system in a consistent state.  The VFS in turn calls the
freeze function in the file system to do whatever the file system needs
to do in order to make the snapshot consistent.  That might mean sync
out the log and write an unmount record.  Once the file system is done
LVM2 gets control back and creates the snapshot.  Now you should be able
to mount the file system without it looking corrupt.

Nate


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Nov 21 09:24:26 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:24:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] interesting patents
Message-ID: <20061121152426.GD20036@iucha.net>

I have found an interesting patent [1] referenced on this blog [2].
Pay attention to claim number 9.

florin

1: http://blog.digital-scurf.org/2006/11/21#sometimes-patents-amuse
2: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040161257%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040161257&RS=DN/20040161257

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Tue Nov 21 09:24:42 2006
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:24:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Perl and PDF
Message-ID: <34b4c76d0611210724v306c517dr14c7d0414a7b8285@mail.gmail.com>

it's the slow days before the feeding frenzy, and I'm trying to clean
up some of my projects, including making a crappy HTML approval form
print nicely into a PDF.

I'm using PDF::API2 to create the PDF, and I've got the result resting
in a $pdf. Now, how do I output that PDF out to the browser? I've been
messing with the http headers to give it the proper mime types, etc,
but to no avail.

Similarly, I'd also like to store the completed PDF form in a MySQL
database for archival purposes. Inserting this into a blob should work
nicely. But how do I retrieve such a document once inserted?

Thanks for your help.

-- 
-
G. Scott Walters
http://www.apt518.net


From tanner at real-time.com  Tue Nov 21 10:04:49 2006
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:04:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org>

In the never ending battle to fight the spammers a behind the scenes change
to the MX records for mn-linux.org has taken place.

I've asked tclug.org (jima) to adjust those MX records as well.

Nothing major here, just moving some of the anti-spam processing off to a
cluster of machines (right now this box is doing the anti-spam processing)

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288



From tanner at real-time.com  Tue Nov 21 10:06:40 2006
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:06:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: ignore
Message-ID: <200611211006.40588.tanner@real-time.com>

Testing.

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288
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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Tue Nov 21 10:47:58 2006
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:47:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] interesting patents
In-Reply-To: <20061121152426.GD20036@iucha.net>
References: <20061121152426.GD20036@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <20061121164758.GA26121@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 09:24:26AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
> I have found an interesting patent [1] referenced on this blog [2].
> Pay attention to claim number 9.
> 
> florin
> 
> 1: http://blog.digital-scurf.org/2006/11/21#sometimes-patents-amuse
> 2: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040161257%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040161257&RS=DN/20040161257
> 

<splorf>

Reminds me of the grad student who stuck a $10 bill in their thesis in
the library.  Found it there, untouched, decades later.

-- 
trammell at el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota


From clay at fandre.com  Tue Nov 21 11:44:21 2006
From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:44:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>

Just curious, what's Real-time using for anti-spam?

How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look at?

Personally I've been using crm114 for almost 2 years and absolutely love
it. The only problem is it's a drag to get installed and trained, but
once it's running it works great. I'm guessing I catch around 99% of the
spam.

Bob Tanner wrote:
> In the never ending battle to fight the spammers a behind the scenes change
> to the MX records for mn-linux.org has taken place.
> 
> I've asked tclug.org (jima) to adjust those MX records as well.
> 
> Nothing major here, just moving some of the anti-spam processing off to a
> cluster of machines (right now this box is doing the anti-spam processing)
> 


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 21 12:53:41 2006
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:53:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] interesting patents
In-Reply-To: <20061121164758.GA26121@mail.el-swifto.com>
References: <20061121152426.GD20036@iucha.net>
	<20061121164758.GA26121@mail.el-swifto.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0611211252460.25732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006, John J. Trammell wrote:

> Reminds me of the grad student who stuck a $10 bill in their thesis in 
> the library.  Found it there, untouched, decades later.


I like that story.  Now I'm wondering how well it will pay me to go to the 
library and open every thesis and shake it.

Mike


From dan at dandrake.org  Tue Nov 21 12:57:15 2006
From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:57:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20061121185715.GA16069@dandrake.org>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 at 11:44AM -0600, Clay Fandre wrote:
> Just curious, what's Real-time using for anti-spam?
> 
> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look
> at?
> 
> Personally I've been using crm114 for almost 2 years and absolutely
> love it. The only problem is it's a drag to get installed and trained,
> but once it's running it works great. I'm guessing I catch around 99%
> of the spam.

I use bogofilter with no particularly special setup. It rules. I go
through the "unsure" folder once a week or so. No false positives or
negatives. Spam just isn't really an issue for me with bogofilter.

Dan

-- 
Ceci n'est pas une .signature.
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From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Tue Nov 21 13:09:09 2006
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:09:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] interesting patents
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0611211252460.25732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <20061121152426.GD20036@iucha.net>
	<20061121164758.GA26121@mail.el-swifto.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0611211252460.25732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20061121190909.GA30285@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 12:53:41PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2006, John J. Trammell wrote:
> 
>> Reminds me of the grad student who stuck a $10 bill in their thesis
>> in the library.  Found it there, untouched, decades later.
> 
> I like that story.  Now I'm wondering how well it will pay me to go to
> the library and open every thesis and shake it.

Just make sure you wear a dust mask.  :-D

-- 
trammell at el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota


From chewie at wookimus.net  Tue Nov 21 13:13:00 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com> 
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20061121191300.07A7620FF@skuld.wookimus.net>

> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a
> look at?

I'm using Postfix with a few additions:

policyd-weight
www.policyd-weight.org
    "weighted SMTP policy daemon for postfix, scored RBLs/RHSBLs
    and HELO/MAIL FROM checks, avoiding faked spam and virus
    before DATA."

clamsmtp
http://memberwebs.com/nielsen/software/clamsmtp/
    "SMTP filter that allows you to check for viruses using the
    ClamAV anti-virus software"

spampd
http://www.worlddesign.com/index.cfm/rd/mta/spampd.htm
    "spampd acts as a transparent SMTP/LMTP proxy between two mail
    servers, and during the transaction it passes the mail through
    [SpamAssassin]"

I also use a post-filtering postfix rule to reject any high-ranking
SPAM before accepting it into the spool.  This helps a lot, but I've
been getting a TON of SPAM through my Debian address.  Stuff sent to
wookimus.net doesn't really make it through.  If Debian servers
employed policyd-weight or similar policy testing daemon, I think the
SPAM would be greatly reduced.

> Personally I've been using crm114 for almost 2 years and absolutely
> love it. The only problem is it's a drag to get installed and
> trained, but once it's running it works great. I'm guessing I catch
> around 99% of the spam.

I agree, but I don't think it's HORRIBLE to install.  Perhaps not as
easy as others, simply because there aren't as many users as, say,
SpamAssassin.  I use crm114 in my procmail scripts to filter out
things that the server didn't catch.  It works wonderfully.  Far
better than any other statistical program out there.

I would like to set up crm114 as a system-wide filter one of these
days.  I provide IMAP/squirrelmail services to a couple of my friends,
and having a ham/spam-training setup would be nice.

If you're a good crm114 hacker, you can use it to process ANY
stream-based data.  This includes log files, etc.

Honestly, if you haven't tried crm114 yet, and you're sick of SA's
performance, give it a shot.

For the most part, I can reject email with GIF's, since they're
usually image ads.  Most of my friends don't bother sending GIF's,
rather JPEG's.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From dru at druswanderings.net  Tue Nov 21 13:15:04 2006
From: dru at druswanderings.net (The Wandering Dru)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:15:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Anti-spam solutions WAS: Behind the scenes changes to
	MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <45635038.6070205@druswanderings.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Clay Fandre wrote:
> Just curious, what's Real-time using for anti-spam?
> 
> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look at?

About a month ago, I started using ASSP[1] for flipping the bird at
spammers.  Prior to that, I was using amavis/clam/sa.  It worked ok but
still let quite a bit through (10-15 a week).  After opening it up to
the flood of salty canned meat for a two week training period (would
have been shorter if I saved more of my mail), I slammed the door and
have only received 1 in the last 13 days which I promptly forwarded to
the "spam" address for reclassification.

The thing I really like about it is it cuts spam off at the SMTP level
rather than accepting, filtering, then bouncing/marking/bit-bucketing/etc.

Down side is it doesn't scale well.  Unless your people are united on
what is definitely spam and definitely ham, it won't work as well beyond
maybe 100 people.

1. http://assp.sourceforge.net

- --
Andy Moore
The Wandering Dru             GnuPG Key: 0x506A915F
http://www.druswanderings.net

Get nifty TCLUG merchandise at the TCLUG Store!
http://www.cafeshops.com/tclug
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From slushpupie at gmail.com  Tue Nov 21 13:26:41 2006
From: slushpupie at gmail.com ( )
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:26:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/06, Clay Fandre <clay at fandre.com> wrote:
>
> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look at?
>

I had been using some form of Bayesian filtering (bogofilter,
spamassassin, etc) for a long time. It was working great until I
started getting the "poison" spams.  These are spams that just load it
up with 50% keywords to throw the stats off.  It more or less made my
training useless.  I started using greylisting (postgrey) and it cut
my spam down by at least 80%.  Once I get bogofilter re-trained I
think I'll have a good setup again for a while.

Info on greylisting: http://greylisting.org/

-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/


From chewie at wookimus.net  Tue Nov 21 14:29:26 2006
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:29:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Anti-spam solutions WAS: Behind the scenes changes
	to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <45635038.6070205@druswanderings.net> 
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
	<45635038.6070205@druswanderings.net>
Message-ID: <20061121202926.6303520FF@skuld.wookimus.net>

The Wandering Dru <dru at druswanderings.net>  wrote:
> The thing I really like about it is it cuts spam off at the SMTP
> level rather than accepting, filtering, then
> bouncing/marking/bit-bucketing/etc.

Yes.  The key is killing SPAM at the server, before queuing the the
data.  I have found that the amavisd style of doing things just
doesn't work.  Additionally, amavisd lets through too much spam.  For
some reason, the spamassassin configuration it uses doesn't work
nearly as well as spampd.

I forgot to mention that I also use a policy server to do greylisting.
It's a lot of small parts tied together through SMTP Proxying and
policy daemons.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From tclug at cmulcahy.com  Tue Nov 21 17:20:37 2006
From: tclug at cmulcahy.com (Chris Mulcahy)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:20:37 -0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
	<ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>

slushpupie at gmail.com wrote:
> On 11/21/06, Clay Fandre <clay at fandre.com> wrote:
>   
>> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look at?
>>     
> up with 50% keywords to throw the stats off.  It more or less made my
> training useless.  I started using greylisting (postgrey) and it cut
> my spam down by at least 80%.  Once I get bogofilter re-trained I
> think I'll have a good setup again for a while.
>
> Info on greylisting: http://greylisting.org
The big problem with grey listing is the bounces.  When an innocent
person's domain name is forged as the return address, grey listing,
along with message bouncing, floods some innocent person's mailbox.

I have a huge procmail script dedicated to wiping out the grey listing
"please verify you are a human" messages as well as the bounce
messages.  You will never get a mail from me because the forged mail
addresses caused me to /dev/null all grey listing and bounce messages. 

Grey listing is fine for you.  It is a MAJOR problem for those innocents
whose domain name has been forged.  I spent way too much time filtering
and blocking those messages.

Not a fan of it myself but I get over 30,000 spam messages per day.  I
am continuously evaluating spam filtering.

<sigh>
Chris


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Nov 21 18:15:55 2006
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:15:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
	<ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>
	<4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0611211815290.9031@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Chris Mulcahy wrote:
> I have a huge procmail script dedicated to wiping out the grey listing 
> "please verify you are a human" messages as well as the bounce messages. 
> You will never get a mail from me because the forged mail addresses 
> caused me to /dev/null all grey listing and bounce messages.

That's not greylisting. Greylisting is when you temporarily defer the 
message to start with, and accept it on the retry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From josh at joshwelch.com  Tue Nov 21 18:48:01 2006
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:48:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
	<ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>
	<4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
Message-ID: <20061121184801.qyhu2gdi0tc0sk0g@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Chris Mulcahy <tclug at cmulcahy.com>:

> slushpupie at gmail.com wrote:
>> On 11/21/06, Clay Fandre <clay at fandre.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look at?
>>>
>> up with 50% keywords to throw the stats off.  It more or less made my
>> training useless.  I started using greylisting (postgrey) and it cut
>> my spam down by at least 80%.  Once I get bogofilter re-trained I
>> think I'll have a good setup again for a while.
>>
>> Info on greylisting: http://greylisting.org
> The big problem with grey listing is the bounces.  When an innocent
> person's domain name is forged as the return address, grey listing,
> along with message bouncing, floods some innocent person's mailbox.
>
> I have a huge procmail script dedicated to wiping out the grey listing
> "please verify you are a human" messages as well as the bounce
> messages.  You will never get a mail from me because the forged mail
> addresses caused me to /dev/null all grey listing and bounce messages.
>
> Grey listing is fine for you.  It is a MAJOR problem for those innocents
> whose domain name has been forged.  I spent way too much time filtering
> and blocking those messages.
>
> Not a fan of it myself but I get over 30,000 spam messages per day.  I
> am continuously evaluating spam filtering.
>
> <sigh>
> Chris
>

Either you misunderstand what greylisting is, or I was doing something 
revolutionary, probably not the revolutionary part.

When I was greylisting it worked by giving a 4XX "try back later" 
message to any from address, domain and IP Address combination which 
was not listed in the database. This would result in any standard mail 
server queueing the mail for delivery later, at which point the 
greylisting server would allow the mail delivery. Many/most spam 
operations won't bother queuing mail for later delivery, and you will 
never see a particular from address, domain, and IP Address combination 
from them again becuase they forge the from address.

The biggest issue in this scenario for a very high volume operation 
with a lot of unique senders is scaling the database. For medium volume 
operations it can be quite effective.

Josh


From tclug at cmulcahy.com  Tue Nov 21 20:39:07 2006
From: tclug at cmulcahy.com (Chris Mulcahy)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:39:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <20061121184801.qyhu2gdi0tc0sk0g@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>	<ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>	<4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
	<20061121184801.qyhu2gdi0tc0sk0g@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <4563B84B.6070603@cmulcahy.com>

Josh Welch wrote:
> Either you misunderstand what greylisting is, or I was doing something 
> revolutionary, probably not the revolutionary part.
>
> When I was greylisting it worked by giving a 4XX "try back later" 
> message to any from address, domain and IP Address combination which 
> was not listed in the database. This would result in any standard mail 
> server queueing the mail for delivery later, at which point the 
> greylisting server would allow the mail delivery. Many/most spam 
> operations won't bother queuing mail for later delivery, and you will 
> never see a particular from address, domain, and IP Address combination 
> from them again becuase they forge the from address.
>
> The biggest issue in this scenario for a very high volume operation 
> with a lot of unique senders is scaling the database. For medium volume 
> operations it can be quite effective.
>
> Josh
>
>   
D'Oh!  And I knew that too.  Grey listing is a good thing.  Having the
sender (most likely a zombie) manage a retry is very effective.  Most
zombie setups are not smart enough to retry and those that are,
typically via a smarthost, get identified as a spammer before you get to
see them.

Grey listing is a good thing.  The "Hello?  Are you a human?"
confirmation messages are EVIL! 

Chris


From josh at joshwelch.com  Wed Nov 22 06:56:46 2006
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 06:56:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <4563B84B.6070603@cmulcahy.com>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
	<ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>
	<4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
	<20061121184801.qyhu2gdi0tc0sk0g@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>
	<4563B84B.6070603@cmulcahy.com>
Message-ID: <20061122065646.1j474n7cljpc0s04@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Chris Mulcahy <tclug at cmulcahy.com>:

<snip>
>
> Grey listing is a good thing.  The "Hello?  Are you a human?"
> confirmation messages are EVIL!
>
> Chris
>

Agreed. At a previous position of mine my VP decided to try one of 
those foul things because he thought we were having spam problems, if 
only he knew how much spam I had kept out of his In Box. That little 
piece of crapware resulted in several nasty grams to postmaster@, which 
I had the privilege of reading. Josh


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Wed Nov 22 07:33:50 2006
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:33:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
In-Reply-To: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611220731590.2481@beer.tclug.org>

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006, Bob Tanner wrote:
> In the never ending battle to fight the spammers a behind the scenes change
> to the MX records for mn-linux.org has taken place.
>
> I've asked tclug.org (jima) to adjust those MX records as well.

  Just now digging myself out from a too-busy day yesterday; I've applied 
the DNS changes requested.  They're propogating now, thanks.

> Nothing major here, just moving some of the anti-spam processing off to a
> cluster of machines (right now this box is doing the anti-spam processing)

  *nods*

      Jima


From ai9nl at arrl.net  Wed Nov 22 11:34:06 2006
From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:34:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pcmcia-serial port adapter
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0611220934l7dd30e25r2da23cc152d04450@mail.gmail.com>

hi list,
ibought  a little pcmcia card which is supposed to add four serial ports to
my acer laptop.  I'm hoping to control a radio and a GPS   has anyone else
set up such a gizmo successfully? I'm running debian "etch" on thiis thing
if that matters.

any real help, educated guesses, or even hair-brained ideas  accepted and
appriciated.  (I am expeirencing high levels of frustration at the
moment.:-).

thanks

harv, N9AI
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Nov 22 12:16:17 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:16:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pcmcia-serial port adapter
In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0611220934l7dd30e25r2da23cc152d04450@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a470a5f0611220934l7dd30e25r2da23cc152d04450@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061122181617.GG20036@iucha.net>

On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 11:34:06AM -0600, Harv Nelson wrote:
> ibought  a little pcmcia card which is supposed to add four serial ports to
> my acer laptop.  I'm hoping to control a radio and a GPS   has anyone else
> set up such a gizmo successfully? I'm running debian "etch" on thiis thing
> if that matters.

What is the maker, model and revision number of the adapter?

> any real help, educated guesses, or even hair-brained ideas  accepted and
> appriciated.  (I am expeirencing high levels of frustration at the
> moment.:-).

What does "lspci -v" say after you plugged-in the adapter?  Do you
hear any beeps?

What do you get in the logs after you plug it in?  Try something like
this:

   - boot the machine, without the adapter
   - login as root
   - dmesg > /tmp/before
   - plug in the adapter
   - dmesg > /tmp/after
   - diff /tmp/before /tmp/after

Are you running the stock kernel?

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Nov 22 17:41:00 2006
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:41:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
	<ace41e70611211126g6d42c4ak13d027aabe161658@mail.gmail.com>
	<4514BB20.2030803@cmulcahy.com>
Message-ID: <ek2n6b$tv1$1@sea.gmane.org>

Chris Mulcahy wrote:

>> Info on greylisting: http://greylisting.org
> The big problem with grey listing is the bounces. ?When an innocent
> person's domain name is forged as the return address, grey listing,
> along with message bouncing, floods some innocent person's mailbox.
> 

Think you are confused with greylisting does. But you seem to be talking
about is backscatter (I think) and postfix deals wonderfully with that sort
of junk.


-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288



From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Nov 22 17:42:18 2006
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:42:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Behind the scenes changes to MX for mn-linux.org
References: <ejv831$bin$1@sea.gmane.org> <45633AF5.4060304@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <ek2n8p$tv1$2@sea.gmane.org>

Clay Fandre wrote:

> Just curious, what's Real-time using for anti-spam?
> 
> How about everyone else? Anything new out there we should take a look at?

(* presentation *)
(* cough *)
(* presentation *)



-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner at real-time.com>          | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax   : (952)943-8500
Key fingerprint = AB15 0BDF BCDE 4369 5B42  1973 7CF1 A709 2CC1 B288



From sfertch at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 21:28:51 2006
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:28:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for simple blog software
Message-ID: <67f3084a0611221928h573b4513nce35fd27ca853886@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for simple blog software that's on the same level as dokuwiki in
that it does not have a database back end.  I did a search on Sourceforge as
well as google.  But, it seems like the vast majority of them use a database
backend which is not what I'm looking for.

Is anyone using blog software like this, and if so what are your thoughts on
it?

-- 
-Shawn

-Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
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From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Nov 23 09:36:18 2006
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:36:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for simple blog software
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0611221928h573b4513nce35fd27ca853886@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67f3084a0611221928h573b4513nce35fd27ca853886@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061123093618.892d1c71.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:28:51 -0600
"Shawn Fertch" <sfertch at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for simple blog software that's on the same level as
> dokuwiki in that it does not have a database back end.  I did a
> search on Sourceforge as well as google.  But, it seems like the
> vast majority of them use a database backend which is not what
> I'm looking for.
> 
> Is anyone using blog software like this, and if so what are your
> thoughts on it?

I like Serendipity - I think it uses a DB backend for some config
stuff - but I THOUGHT you could get by without it, but looking now
I guess I'm wrong.  It does hook into SQLite though it that's an
alternative for you.  Anyway, if you want a look:

www.s9y.org

Josh


From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Thu Nov 23 10:25:02 2006
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:25:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for simple blog software
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0611221928h573b4513nce35fd27ca853886@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67f3084a0611221928h573b4513nce35fd27ca853886@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c0611230825o1c45fd9k71168ce88e479c91@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/22/06, Shawn Fertch <sfertch at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for simple blog software that's on the same level as dokuwiki in
> that it does not have a database back end.  I did a search on Sourceforge as
> well as google.  But, it seems like the vast majority of them use a database
> backend which is not what I'm looking for.
>
> Is anyone using blog software like this, and if so what are your thoughts on
> it?

I am not, but head to www.wikimatrix.org, and use their wiki selection
interview. They list a ton of wikis and feature sets for each,
including text- vs db-backend. Some of the wikis are light, some are
more of a CMS than a wiki, which may suit your needs better.


From dpkhobby at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 23 04:46:53 2006
From: dpkhobby at earthlink.net (Dwayne)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 04:46:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] changing memeber info
Message-ID: <45657C1D.2050109@earthlink.net>

I would like to change some info on my member listing and can't for the
life of me remember what I used for a user name and pass. Is there a way
to get that or someone I can email who has that info?

Dwayne


From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Thu Nov 23 12:08:31 2006
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04 at smumn.edu)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:08:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] changing memeber info
Message-ID: <200611231808310341607419@mail.smumn.edu>


On Thursday, November 23, 2006  4:46 AM, Dwayne wrote:
>
>Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 04:46:53 -0600
>From: Dwayne
>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>Subject: [tclug-list] changing memeber info
>
>I would like to change some info on my member listing and can't for the
>life of me remember what I used for a user name and pass. Is there a way
>to get that or someone I can email who has that info?
>
>Dwayne
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Let me know Dwayne because I have e-mailed the "webmaster" can't remeber whom since it was back then. But I'd like to know too.

Thanks,

David



"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein

"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"



From pclinux at charter.net  Fri Nov 24 13:05:59 2006
From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:05:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Boot Partition Oops
Message-ID: <45674297.9030901@charter.net>

I have a 80gb hard drive partitioned in NTFS that I use for data 
backup.  Just one large partition, no OS.  Through a comedy of errors 
(not so funny at the moment) fdisk /mbr was run on the drive from a W98 
diskette.  Now XP can't read it & wants to format.  Knoppix does not see 
the drive either.  How do I get my data back?  This doesn't seem like it 
would be too difficult.  I just can't make another booboo at this point.
Thank You, Carl


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Nov 24 14:32:16 2006
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:32:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Boot Partition Oops
In-Reply-To: <45674297.9030901@charter.net>
References: <45674297.9030901@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20061124203216.GI20036@iucha.net>

On Fri, Nov 24, 2006 at 01:05:59PM -0600, Carl Zeilon wrote:
> I have a 80gb hard drive partitioned in NTFS that I use for data 
> backup.  Just one large partition, no OS.  Through a comedy of errors 
> (not so funny at the moment) fdisk /mbr was run on the drive from a W98 
> diskette.  Now XP can't read it & wants to format.  Knoppix does not see 
> the drive either.  How do I get my data back?  This doesn't seem like it 
> would be too difficult.  I just can't make another booboo at this point.

0. "fdisk /mbr" cleans the Master Boot Record, not the partition
table.  Something else messed it up.

1. Get a bigger disk and dump the image of this sick puppy onto it to
prevent further damage:

   dd if=/dev/$whatever bs=1M | gzip > disk_img.dd.gz

If you don't have another disk that you can plug/unplug around, use
netcat:

   On a spare computer:

      netcat -p 12345 -l > disk_img.dd.gz

   On computer with bad disk:

      dd if=/dev/$whatever bs=1M | gzip | netcat -p 12345 -h $other_one

I haven't done this in a while so you might want to test first by
sending a known file then comparing it on the receiving end.

2. Go get a cup of coffee. From Starbucks. It will be a while.

3. What does "fdisk -l /dev/$whatever" say under Knoppix?

florin

-- 
If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
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From pclinux at charter.net  Mon Nov 27 09:12:46 2006
From: pclinux at charter.net (Carl Zeilon)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:12:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Boot Partition Oops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1164477602.25509.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1164477602.25509.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <456B006E.80808@charter.net>

> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:32:16 -0600
> From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Boot Partition Oops
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20061124203216.GI20036 at iucha.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2006 at 01:05:59PM -0600, Carl Zeilon wrote:
>> I have a 80gb hard drive partitioned in NTFS that I use for data 
>> backup.  Just one large partition, no OS.  Through a comedy of errors 
>> (not so funny at the moment) fdisk /mbr was run on the drive from a W98 
>> diskette.  Now XP can't read it & wants to format.  Knoppix does not see 
>> the drive either.  How do I get my data back?  This doesn't seem like it 
>> would be too difficult.  I just can't make another booboo at this point.
> 
> 0. "fdisk /mbr" cleans the Master Boot Record, not the partition
> table.  Something else messed it up.
> 
> 1. Get a bigger disk and dump the image of this sick puppy onto it to
> prevent further damage:
> 
>    dd if=/dev/$whatever bs=1M | gzip > disk_img.dd.gz
> 
> If you don't have another disk that you can plug/unplug around, use
> netcat:
> 
>    On a spare computer:
> 
>       netcat -p 12345 -l > disk_img.dd.gz
> 
>    On computer with bad disk:
> 
>       dd if=/dev/$whatever bs=1M | gzip | netcat -p 12345 -h $other_one
> 
> I haven't done this in a while so you might want to test first by
> sending a known file then comparing it on the receiving end.
> 
> 2. Go get a cup of coffee. From Starbucks. It will be a while.
> 
> 3. What does "fdisk -l /dev/$whatever" say under Knoppix?
> 
> florin
> 

Thanks Florin,
I thought the same thing about the fdisk & the partition table but the 
"proof" of destruction was right before my eyes.  However, for whatever 
reason, the hard drive did in fact pick that moment in time to self 
destruct.  I was able to retrieve every bit of data (20gb) after 
spending 5 1/2 hours watching the drive soak in a bucket of ice water & 
kicking it whenever the data stopped transferring.  What a great 
Thanksgiving vacation!  :-)

Cheers to all,
Carl




From harv.nelson at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 10:10:28 2006
From: harv.nelson at gmail.com (Harv Nelson)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:10:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pcmcia card serial port adapters
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0611220810y3240fff2k8f572e439d96a094@mail.gmail.com>

hi list,
ibought  a little pcmcia card which is supposed to add four serial ports to
my acer laptop.  I'm hoping to control a radio and a GPS   has anyone else
set up such a gizmo successfully? I'm running debian "etch" on thiis thing
if that matters.

any real help, educated guesses, or even hair-brained ideas  accepted and
appriciated.  (I am expeirencing high levels of frustration at the
moment.:-).

thanks

harv, N9AI
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From harv.nelson at gmail.com  Wed Nov 22 14:30:37 2006
From: harv.nelson at gmail.com (Harv Nelson)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:30:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pcmcia-serial port adapter
In-Reply-To: <20061122181617.GG20036@iucha.net>
References: <6a470a5f0611220934l7dd30e25r2da23cc152d04450@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061122181617.GG20036@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0611221230u4a52f9b0qf9fed479b569468c@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/22/06, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 11:34:06AM -0600, Harv Nelson wrote:
> > ibought  a little pcmcia card which is supposed to add four serial ports
> to
> > my acer laptop.  I'm hoping to control a radio and a GPS   has anyone
> else
> > set up such a gizmo successfully? I'm running debian "etch" on thiis
> thing
> > if that matters.
>
> What is the maker, model and revision number of the adapter?


the maker((near as I can figue itis CALLED"SERIAL gEAR."  ITS CALLED AN
rs232c pcmcia pc cARD; 4 PORTS SPEED 115.2.  dAMN ... THE thing  JUST
STARTED WORKING on port #1.  I've no idea why...  I hate it when that
happens!

there are no beeps on boot.  lspci-v says
==================

harv at n9ai-lt:~$ lspci-v
bash: lspci-v: command not found
harv at n9ai-lt:~$
harv at n9ai-lt:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 760/M760 Host (rev 03)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SG86C202
00:02.0 ISA bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS963 [MuTIOL Media
IO] (rev 25)
00:02.1 SMBus: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS961/2 SMBus Controller
00:02.5 IDE interface: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 5513 [IDE]
00:02.6 Modem: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] AC'97 Modem Controller (rev
a0)
00:02.7 Multimedia audio controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] AC'97
Sound Controller (rev a0)
00:03.0 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.0 Controller
(rev 0f)
00:03.1 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.0 Controller
(rev 0f)
00:03.2 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 2.0 Controller
00:04.0 Ethernet controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI
Fast Ethernet (rev 91)
00:06.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1510 PC card Cardbus Controller
00:0b.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4318 [AirForce One 54g]
802.11g Wireless LAN Controller (rev 02)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron]
HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron]
Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM
Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron]
Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]
661/741/760/761 PCI/AGP VGA Display Adapter
02:00.0 Serial controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Unknown device 9504
02:00.1 Bridge: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX16PCI954 (Quad 16950 UART)
function 1 (8bit bus)
harv at n9ai-lt:~$







> any real help, educated guesses, or even hair-brained ideas  accepted and
> > appriciated.  (I am expeirencing high levels of frustration at the
> > moment.:-).
>
> What does "lspci -v" say after you plugged-in the adapter?  Do you
> hear any beeps?
>
> What do you get in the logs after you plug it in?  Try something like
> this:
>
>    - boot the machine, without the adapter
>    - login as root
>    - dmesg > /tmp/before
>    - plug in the adapter
>    - dmesg > /tmp/after
>    - diff /tmp/before /tmp/after
>
> Are you running the stock kernel?
>
> florin
>
> --
> If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines
> produced but as lines spent.                       -- Edsger Dijkstra
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFFZJPxND0rFCN2b1sRAoXEAJ9Cz3iBQEwyuYszBsEjLlytYt7WSwCfSP5H
> HQ4B9SxnfzXkPkoM2/r+TIY=
> =ClfQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
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From markmit at comcast.net  Tue Nov 28 17:34:37 2006
From: markmit at comcast.net (Mark Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:34:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NeXT stuff and Monitor for free.
Message-ID: <200611281734.37686.markmit@comcast.net>

I tried to use the classified posting form on the site, but it wouldn't work 
for me, so here goes.

1 keyboard and 1 soundbox for NeXT.  If I have cables, I don't know where they 
are.

1 NEC P1250+ monitor.  Almost working.  Shows picture, but it dims and shrinks 
momentarily several times a minute associated with a clicking sound.  Don't 
know if it's repairable or not.  It does weigh a ton, though.  (~70lbs)

I'm offering this stuff here first, then craigslist, then the alley.

Pictures at http://mitchell-clan.net/~mark/giveaway/

Mark


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Nov 29 18:09:52 2006
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:09:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200611300009.kAU09q129747@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Home Based Order processors

Home Based Order processors
This is a legitimate work at home opportunity.
Earn $300-$900 per week from home submiting online forms.
Complete Training, easy to start!
http://ourdataentry.com

Seller Email address: blrbindu at yahoo dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com  Thu Nov 30 17:08:28 2006
From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:08:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Redundant server with data replication.
Message-ID: <bada98250611301508q179c5b18xb93cf4a66be0ca96@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, I've been thrown in the deep end on this.

I've used Linux on the desktop for a while now but this week I was asked to
set up a LAMP server, and it's been a very new experience for me.

Now, I've been asked about taking said LAMP server and having a synced,
redundant backup that would take over automatically in the case of a server
problem. Is this doable, and if so, where do I begin to look?

-- 

Jordan Peacock
hewhocutsdown at gmail.com
hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com
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From thecubic at thecubic.net  Thu Nov 30 18:40:21 2006
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (David Carlson)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:40:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Redundant server with data replication.
In-Reply-To: <bada98250611301508q179c5b18xb93cf4a66be0ca96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bada98250611301508q179c5b18xb93cf4a66be0ca96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13502.163.231.6.65.1164933621.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>

At where I work, we have had great results with f5 BigIP for
high-availability and load-balancing on the front end.  Meaning someone
surfs to the big IP's exported address and gets one of the servers
beneath.   It's very configurable.

For the MySQL end you could synchronize with MySQL Cluster.  If you really
are uptime-oriented, you could split the MySQL off into a different server
cluster.

If you have shared (non-database) storage that both hosts need access to,
nothing beats a NAS mount for simplicity.  Of course, you'd have to make
that redundant...

It's definitely doable, but it can get expensive real quick if you don't
have an existing infrastructure...

-Dave

> Wow, I've been thrown in the deep end on this.
>
> I've used Linux on the desktop for a while now but this week I was asked
> to
> set up a LAMP server, and it's been a very new experience for me.
>
> Now, I've been asked about taking said LAMP server and having a synced,
> redundant backup that would take over automatically in the case of a
> server
> problem. Is this doable, and if so, where do I begin to look?
>
> --
>
> Jordan Peacock
> hewhocutsdown at gmail.com
> hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Thu Nov 30 19:06:25 2006
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:06:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Redundant server with data replication.
In-Reply-To: <bada98250611301508q179c5b18xb93cf4a66be0ca96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bada98250611301508q179c5b18xb93cf4a66be0ca96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0611301906050.20310@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, Jordan Peacock wrote:
> Wow, I've been thrown in the deep end on this.
>
> I've used Linux on the desktop for a while now but this week I was asked 
> to set up a LAMP server, and it's been a very new experience for me.
>
> Now, I've been asked about taking said LAMP server and having a synced, 
> redundant backup that would take over automatically in the case of a 
> server problem. Is this doable, and if so, where do I begin to look?

Heartbeat for failover and DRBD for disk replication works reasonably 
well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------