From kc0iog at gmail.com Fri Sep 1 16:25:02 2006 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 16:25:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] require some info In-Reply-To: <4689d6590608311858p5f62e039ifc92ab10e2726534@mail.gmail.com> References: <4689d6590608311858p5f62e039ifc92ab10e2726534@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0609011425t572f9100ya22498a83b147049@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/06, arunanchal behera wrote: > hi all > i want to learn more about the mail server can u suggest any book or > site for that Any particular server or feature? I personally use Postfix. It's a fairly light, secure-by-default mail server that does almost anything you'd need it to. I'd recommend "Postfix: The definitive Guide" from O'Reilly, the No Starch version is pretty good too. There's plenty of good info on the web as well. I'm guessing you're new to the fundamentals of e-mail, so I recommend a book to get your feet wet. Sendmail and Qmail are other great server products, again with plenty of great books and web docs. I find Sendmail to be a little bloated for my use and Qmail just plain weird, but they're both great options depending on what you're doing. -Brian From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Sep 1 17:10:21 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 17:10:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] O'Reilly books free online at the U In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0609011425t572f9100ya22498a83b147049@mail.gmail.com> References: <4689d6590608311858p5f62e039ifc92ab10e2726534@mail.gmail.com> <2c6699da0609011425t572f9100ya22498a83b147049@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Brian Wall wrote: > I'd recommend "Postfix: The definitive Guide" from O'Reilly, the No > Starch version is pretty good too. There's plenty of good info on the > web as well. I don't know if many of you are at the U, or can get access to a computer on campus, but those with access might like to know that the U has purchased online access to 338 electronic titles on the O'Reilly Safari Bookshelf. For example, if you are on campus, you can read this intro on "Transporting and Handling Email Messages > The Postfix MTA" from "Running Linux, 5th Edition": http://proquest.safaribooksonline.com/0596007604/runlinux5-CHP-23 Or "Postfix: A Secure and Easy-to-Use MTA" by Glenn Graham: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2003/08/21/postfix.html If you have X.500 password, you can get access from anywhere. See more info below. Mike The UM Libraries has purchased a subscription to 338 electronic titles on the O'Reilly Safari Bookshelf. Safari is an exclusive collection of highly acclaimed reference content from the two premier IT publishers, OReilly & Associates, Inc., and The Pearson Technology Group, with imprints including Addison-Wesley Professional, Adobe Press, Cisco Press, New Riders, Peachpit Press, Prentice Hall PTR, Que, and Sams. UM people can see the list of titles available, and get free access to them after X.500 authentication: http://proquest.safaribooksonline.com.floyd.lib.umn.edu/ From bhartm at visi.com Fri Sep 1 18:22:01 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:22:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0609010306r103c0523n2088304d96991a38@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <6a470a5f0609010306r103c0523n2088304d96991a38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44F8C099.1010306@visi.com> who, me? I'm not, no. Ohh, I get it. I said radio as in radio button on the poll page. I'm a crummy hobbyist musician with delusions of grandeur. Which is geekier? Harv Nelson wrote: > ?? are you ham Radio licensed?? seems nearly 20 of us are. how > come i've yet to see an "installfest" booth/table at any Ham > fest? superior/Duluth, Minnesota, or Dayton. how about getting > together with one of those vendors selling laptops/notebooks at 6cents > on the dollar. > > harv, AI9NL Washburn, WI > > On 8/27/06, *Bob Hartmann* > > wrote: > > > http://www.mn-linux.org/sympoll/index.php?dispid=124 > > I chose free as in speech because no other radio described my reasons. > free as in beer is close second. > > Two things, not related: > 1. Success! stuff that works-- Apache, perl, php, MySql. Server > software on linux is just better, I think. > 2. Challenge! stuff that might work-- Audio and video capture and > editing. ghahh. > > and one related to both of those > 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. > > > > > I had to choose just one. For me it?s really about getting the job > > done in my scientific work. Today, nothing compares to Linux. > > Personally, I value the Freeness a lot, but if it weren?t working, I > > wouldn?t be using it. > > > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From bhartm at visi.com Fri Sep 1 19:14:54 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:14:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <15790.69.76.4.32.1155683813.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <44E35A51.2060009@beitsahour.net> <1155755534.7174.268536649@webmail.messagingengine.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <6a470a5f0609010306r103c0523n2088304d96991a38@mail.gmail.com> <44F8C099.1010306@visi.com> Message-ID: <44F8CCFE.3090603@visi.com> Mike Miller wrote: > On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > >> I'm a crummy hobbyist musician with delusions of grandeur. >> Which is geekier? > > > > What instrument(s) do you play? What kind of music? > > I play guitar, various kinds, many styles. > > Mike > Oh, god. TCLUG band.. that's a geeky thought. (I said I was delusional, no?) I do rock electric rhythm (Melody Maker meets Marshall) but I'm probably more capable on bass and keyboards. Also some Neil Y-like accoustic gtr. If I ever get Celerra working I'll put up a youtube of my most famous tune. The video is mostly shot. Just needs to be strung together over the .wav. Maybe I should rethink that whole stealing thing. hmm. From jimstreit at northlans.com Fri Sep 1 20:17:08 2006 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:17:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! Message-ID: Hello, I'm getting my house ready to sell and I have 3 items that I need to get out of my house fast! ... so I'm offering them for free! They need to be out of the house this weekend. Item #1. Proxima Desktop Projector. Model DP5100a This works, and comes with the factory carry case. To find out all of the spec's please visit this site: http://www.cinenow-trailers.com/p/proxima_5100_man49_us.pdf Item #2. Unisys e- at ction Enterprise Server. Type SRPM8 esr208152-Z. (I think its an es7000) This machine currently has 4 Intel 700 MHz Xeon processors and 4 GB of ram. The machine is capable of holding 8 Processors and 16 GB of ram. It has 2 18 GB scsi drives internal. Redhat ver 9 is currently loaded. Comes with an HP array controller. 3 hot swap power adaptors. This server is 7U high and about 2' deep. (A BIG BOX) http://www.unisys.com/products/enterprise__servers/high_d_end__servers/model s/es7000_s_one__servers.htm Item #3. HP storage array. Model D3604B Can hold 6 drives and 2, 1/2 heigth bays. Currently has 5, 9GB drives and dual power supplies. (I had it connected to the Unisys server, but I need to keep the scsi cable that connects the 2 devices. https://www.ad.no/hp/english/psge/d3604b.htm Looks like this: I would offer to help make deliverys, but I'm too busy getting other projects done this weekend. You must pick them up, any time this weekend. If you have questions, feel free to call. Thanks Jim Streit 612-965-4700 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060901/ffc9f627/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 44652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060901/ffc9f627/attachment.jpeg From bhartm at visi.com Fri Sep 1 21:35:20 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:35:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <44E3CF1C.6070903@visi.com> <1156173573.7318.269048548@webmail.messagingengine.com> <2c6699da0608210858r7c93b39ao56c13344f22d6f42@mail.gmail.com> <44F13BE2.40606@visi.com> <6a470a5f0609010306r103c0523n2088304d96991a38@mail.gmail.com> <44F8C099.1010306@visi.com> <44F8CCFE.3090603@visi.com> Message-ID: <44F8EDE8.2030102@visi.com> Bass is for nerds, bass is for nerds. I happen to enjoy playing The Ripper. (most famous Ripper players: Gene Simmons and that guy from Green Day) But keys, ohh man. Todd Lund in a bathroom before a Washburn talent show: "You look cool, YOU look cool, you look cool.. you look like a keyboard player. that would be me, parachute pants and mullet. I even built a solid state light board from scratch. ahh, Ax Man. Remember what Zappa said. He knew. Jordan Peacock wrote: > I remember working in an IT dept in Australia, and out of 7 guys, 4 > did live and studio sound technician work on the side, and 3 played bass. > > Kinda scary. > > On 9/1/06, * Bob Hartmann* > > wrote: > > > > Mike Miller wrote: > > > On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: > > > >> I'm a crummy hobbyist musician with delusions of grandeur. > >> Which is geekier? > > > > > > > > What instrument(s) do you play? What kind of music? > > > > I play guitar, various kinds, many styles. > > > > Mike > > > Oh, god. TCLUG band.. that's a geeky thought. (I said I was > delusional, no?) I do rock electric rhythm (Melody Maker meets > Marshall) but I'm probably more capable on bass and keyboards. Also > some Neil Y-like accoustic gtr. If I ever get Celerra working > I'll put > up a youtube of my most famous tune. The video is mostly shot. Just > needs to be strung together over the .wav. Maybe I should rethink > that > whole stealing thing. hmm. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jimstreit at northlans.com Sat Sep 2 02:46:29 2006 From: jimstreit at northlans.com (Jim Streit) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 02:46:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! - Sold Message-ID: Sorry, All of the items have been spoken for. Thanks Jim _____ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jim Streit Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:17 PM To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! Hello, I'm getting my house ready to sell and I have 3 items that I need to get out of my house fast! ... so I'm offering them for free! They need to be out of the house this weekend. Item #1. Proxima Desktop Projector. Model DP5100a This works, and comes with the factory carry case. To find out all of the spec's please visit this site: http://www.cinenow-trailers.com/p/proxima_5100_man49_us.pdf Item #2. Unisys e- at ction Enterprise Server. Type SRPM8 esr208152-Z. (I think its an es7000) This machine currently has 4 Intel 700 MHz Xeon processors and 4 GB of ram. The machine is capable of holding 8 Processors and 16 GB of ram. It has 2 18 GB scsi drives internal. Redhat ver 9 is currently loaded. Comes with an HP array controller. 3 hot swap power adaptors. This server is 7U high and about 2' deep. (A BIG BOX) http://www.unisys.com/products/enterprise__servers/high_d_end__servers/model s/es7000_s_one__servers.htm Item #3. HP storage array. Model D3604B Can hold 6 drives and 2, 1/2 heigth bays. Currently has 5, 9GB drives and dual power supplies. (I had it connected to the Unisys server, but I need to keep the scsi cable that connects the 2 devices. https://www.ad.no/hp/english/psge/d3604b.htm Looks like this: I would offer to help make deliverys, but I'm too busy getting other projects done this weekend. You must pick them up, any time this weekend. If you have questions, feel free to call. Thanks Jim Streit 612-965-4700 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060902/8fbc6ac6/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 44652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060902/8fbc6ac6/attachment.jpeg From obelin23 at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 09:21:13 2006 From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:21:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Music Nerds Message-ID: <72278d10609020721v59839693o1972cf5d7c39cb08@mail.gmail.com> Music nerds get attracted to Linux, huh... Let's see - I play guitar, oud, cumbus, mandolin, doumbek rhythm bones. I lead a band named Felahi (rough translation: Peasant Scum) that plays behind a tribal bellydance group named Totally Northern Tribal. I do home recording with an old 4 track mixer I've got, routing the input to the line-in of a Soundblaster card, with a shareware studio mixer program. My friend Keith - also Linux - is setting up the Linux *Studio To Go* distro with an M-Audio sound card, and Rosegarden for his keyboard-synth setup. Hey, while we're at it - I'm looking to add a couple of doumbek or conga players to our little band , and I'm not finding them in the usual bellydance community. Anyone interested? Fun music for bellydancers, no commercial potential. Raq On, Charlie (Raqs Sharqi is a style of bellydance) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060902/c55c3cf0/attachment.htm From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Sep 2 10:02:15 2006 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:02:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Music Nerds In-Reply-To: <72278d10609020721v59839693o1972cf5d7c39cb08@mail.gmail.com> References: <72278d10609020721v59839693o1972cf5d7c39cb08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2006, Charlie O wrote: > Music nerds get attracted to Linux, huh... I use Linux for everything EXCEPT music. For that, I have a Mac. When I started doing home-recordings I /tried/ using linux, but the sound quality was just horrible. No matter how much money I threw at it. So, Mac. And then Garageband came out and my life became about 10 times easier... I was always thinking about starting a band called "Kernel Panic". I actally have a doumbek but my rhythm on it leaves a LOT to be desired. I'm more a guitar/mandolin person. To varying degrees of non-suckiness. I got the doumbek cause I wanted SOME kind of precussion. I ususally do more folk-rock type stuff. -Yaron -- From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Sep 2 10:59:18 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:59:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] If you get this, you're a geek... Message-ID: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/if_you_get_this_youre_a_geek.php Mike From markring40 at ippimail.com Sat Sep 2 16:00:28 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:00:28 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> I think Larry is right on target. I'm more of a hardware guy than a software guy, but I analogize software with a work of art. If someone is talented enough to be able to paint like Rembrandt and copy one of his works and sell it as an original; most would agree that there is theft and deception involved. If one were to reprint books by contemporary authors and resell them without permission or licensing most would agree that too would be theft. However when it comes to software many attitudes change about theft. Whatever the intention stealing is stealing. I believe many of us have this attitude because software is ubiquitous. We all use it, almost all day. Some of us even write little hacks or snippets of code, therefore how difficult can it be to craft? Because it is everywhere if I illegally use just a couple *little* programs no one really gets hurt. Larry shows us how that attitude can cause real damage to people. I'm not intending to moralize. Just pointing out that no matter how much we might rationalize our unlicensed use of some software. It is still theft and one needs to accept the consequences. Mark. > On the other side of the coin ... > > /soapbox on > > I'm a software developer. I used to have a vertical app that I was > trying to sell. It was a small marketplace and people copying my > package would have made it very hard on me. I spent considerable time > and effort combating people's efforts to use my package without paying > for it. > > Another developer I know went out of business because every time he sold > one copy, ten other people in the area would suddenly have his program. > And this was for churches! > > Copying commercial software is stealing! Just because it can be easily > copied, doesn't give everybody (or anybody) the right to do so. > > While you may not think it is "taking anything away" from them, it is > depriving them of the income they should get for your usage of their > product. > > If you want free software, stay with the FOSS packages. If you want to > use commercial software, pay for it. > > That said, have I ever used a commercial package without purchasing it? > Yes, I have. But I try to restrict it to trying software to see if it > will do what I want or using it for a small one time need that doesn't > justify purchasing an expensive package. (But that still doesn't make > it right.) > > /soapbox off > > Larry R. Pint > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- >> linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller >> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:04 PM >> To: John J. Trammell >> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... >> >> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John J. Trammell wrote: >> >> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 10:07:22AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, Bob Hartmann wrote: >> >> >> >>> 3. Stealing from Microsoft and Adobe is wrong. >> >> >> >> (A) It isn't "stealing" because you are not taking anything away > from >> >> them when you make a copy of something. It's not like taking > someone's >> >> purse. It's more like taking a photo of someone's purse. >> > >> > Utter nonsense. In today's legal climate, regardless of your > opinion of >> > the matter, it is a prosecutable offense, and it is irresponsible of > you >> > to say otherwise. >> >> It might be hard for you to accept this, but a law that equates > copying a >> file with stealing a purse is a very bad law. >> >> Mike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Email for the good guys! From markring40 at ippimail.com Sat Sep 2 16:13:31 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:13:31 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Interesting article Message-ID: <1585.206.188.233.74.1157231611.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> http://www.itmanagersjournal.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/21/1659203 I found this instructive. Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Email for the good guys! From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Sep 2 16:15:58 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 16:15:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > If someone is talented enough to be able to paint like Rembrandt and > copy one of his works and sell it as an original; most would agree that > there is theft and deception involved. > > If one were to reprint books by contemporary authors and resell them > without permission or licensing most would agree that too would be > theft. > > However when it comes to software many attitudes change about theft. > Whatever the intention stealing is stealing. Not really. Taking your examples, they apply to someone who does things such as making fake copies of MS Windows XP and selling them as if they were the original licensed copies. I haven't heard anyone comment that that might be OK. > I believe many of us have this attitude because software is ubiquitous. > We all use it, almost all day. Some of us even write little hacks or > snippets of code, therefore how difficult can it be to craft? The reason isn't ubiquity. Cars are ubiquitous but no one is saying that it is OK to steal cars. The reason is that software is digital and that in "stealing" it (your word, not mine) the original is left intact. If your friend had a magic wand that allowed him to produce an exact replica of your car, and he did that, would you say that he had stolen your car? Of course not. You still have your car. > Because it is everywhere if I illegally use just a couple *little* > programs no one really gets hurt. Larry shows us how that attitude can > cause real damage to people. No one is hurt by your use of a lot of really big programs either. > I'm not intending to moralize. Just pointing out that no matter how > much we might rationalize our unlicensed use of some software. It is > still theft and one needs to accept the consequences. But as others have pointed out, copying programs is entirely different from theft in the usual sense of the word. If I steal your car, you don't have your car and you have thereby been harmed. If I make a copy of one of your CDs, I don't believe that you have been harmed. If there is any harm, it is of an entirely different kind than if I simply took your CD away from you (i.e., stole it). Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Sep 2 17:04:41 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:04:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Interesting article In-Reply-To: <1585.206.188.233.74.1157231611.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <1585.206.188.233.74.1157231611.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > http://www.itmanagersjournal.com/article.pl?sid/08/21/1659203 > > I found this instructive. That is interesting. In addition to its obvious value as a guide to the GPL, it shows another example of where GPL proponents are referred to derisively as "hippies." I have heard people reject Stallman's ideas out of hand and follow that by saying "he is a smelly hippy." Interesting. I can think of no reason why someone's body odor, hair length, or general appearance should be useful in evaluating the merit of his ideas about law, economics, etc. This mathematician is one of the world's greatest, but he has long hair, a messy beard and long fingernails: http://taxa.epi.umn.edu/rmnews/2006/msg00227.html His proof of Poincar?'s conjecture has now been verified after three years of work by the world's leading experts. Mike From justin.kremer at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 17:56:51 2006 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:56:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> On 9/2/06, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > > Because it is everywhere if I illegally use just a couple *little* > > programs no one really gets hurt. Larry shows us how that attitude can > > cause real damage to people. > > No one is hurt by your use of a lot of really big programs either. Going back to your car metaphor, no one would be hurt by me stealing their car, unless I ran someone over or shot someone in the process. Someone would lose money, though. Similarly, if I feel that I need to use a computer program that a company licenses for money, but I download a copy of it instead of buying a copy, then someone has been deprived of money that is owed to them by my act, and regardless of whether you feel pity for the company which I have deprived of that money, it is illegal here in the United States. If, on the other hand, you find a free program that will do the task instead of the original program, you have also deprived that company of the money that they would have made on the sale, but THAT is fully legal! That's just showing the beauty of a free market. So, why not attack the big corporations in a way that is legal, instead of a way that is illegal? In fact, isn't that part of what the poll was about in the first place? > > I'm not intending to moralize. Just pointing out that no matter how > > much we might rationalize our unlicensed use of some software. It is > > still theft and one needs to accept the consequences. > > But as others have pointed out, copying programs is entirely different > from theft in the usual sense of the word. If I steal your car, you don't > have your car and you have thereby been harmed. If I make a copy of one > of your CDs, I don't believe that you have been harmed. If there is any > harm, it is of an entirely different kind than if I simply took your CD > away from you (i.e., stole it). Of course I am not harmed by you making a copy of my CD, but the company that licensed that CD to me for a fee is indirectly harmed by that. Would you walk into a store that sells CDs and start making copies of their CDs right there? I have a feeling they would ask you to leave, or call the police. Would you walk into a bookstore with a digital camera or scanner, and start making digital copies of their books? I have a feeling they would also ask you to leave, or call the police. Try telling either of them that you're not actually harming them. I doubt that they'd see it that way. - Justin From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Sep 2 18:32:41 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:32:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2006, Justin Kremer wrote: > On 9/2/06, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >>> Because it is everywhere if I illegally use just a couple *little* >>> programs no one really gets hurt. Larry shows us how that attitude can >>> cause real damage to people. >> >> No one is hurt by your use of a lot of really big programs either. > > Going back to your car metaphor, no one would be hurt by me stealing > their car, unless I ran someone over or shot someone in the process. By "hurt" I meant damaged in a legal sense, not injured. I guess that wasn't obvious. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Sep 2 18:48:00 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:48:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2006, Justin Kremer wrote: > if I feel that I need to use a computer program that a company licenses > for money, but I download a copy of it instead of buying a copy, then > someone has been deprived of money that is owed to them by my act, and > regardless of whether you feel pity for the company which I have > deprived of that money, it is illegal here in the United States. It is a violation of a legal agreement when a software license is violated. I am not sure where the law stands on downloading programs that seem to have been distributed in violation of the license. That isn't the important thing. Let's just say that it is illegal to download copies of programs that are being distributed in violation of the license agreement. The thing I want to address is the notion that such distribution damages the company that produces the software. That isn't clear. When a program that usually costs $500, say, is being distributed for free on the internet in violation of the license, many people will download the program for free who would never have paid $500 for a properly-licensed copy. So, a company that might have expected to sell 2,000 copies at $500 apiece might find that 1,000,000 copies were freely downloaded on the web against their wishes. But that means that 998,000 more people are using their program than would have used it otherwise. Are they worse off? Well that depends on how much they sell. It could hurt them, but it also could help them. It depends. It's like this with MP3 distribution in P2P. Do record companies sell more or fewer CDs as a result of MP3 distribution? I don't know. It's hard to track. The industry claims are sometimes pretty silly. They make a hell of a lot more now than they used to because of the much lower expense of production and distribution afforded by digital technology. (Vinyl albums are way bigger, heavier and harder to make.) They also have competition from smaller operations and from bands who do their own recording and distribution. There is a lot to take into account. I don't buy most of their arguments. If it were my band, I'd want to see large scale MP3 downloading -- that would be awesome! > If, on the other hand, you find a free program that will do the task > instead of the original program, you have also deprived that company of > the money that they would have made on the sale, but THAT is fully > legal! That's just showing the beauty of a free market. So, why not > attack the big corporations in a way that is legal, instead of a way > that is illegal? In fact, isn't that part of what the poll was about in > the first place? What you are saying here is similar to what I wrote a few days ago. >> But as others have pointed out, copying programs is entirely different >> from theft in the usual sense of the word. If I steal your car, you >> don't have your car and you have thereby been harmed. If I make a copy >> of one of your CDs, I don't believe that you have been harmed. If >> there is any harm, it is of an entirely different kind than if I simply >> took your CD away from you (i.e., stole it). > > Of course I am not harmed by you making a copy of my CD, but the company > that licensed that CD to me for a fee is indirectly harmed by that. > Would you walk into a store that sells CDs and start making copies of > their CDs right there? I have a feeling they would ask you to leave, or > call the police. Would you walk into a bookstore with a digital camera > or scanner, and start making digital copies of their books? I have a > feeling they would also ask you to leave, or call the police. Try > telling either of them that you're not actually harming them. I doubt > that they'd see it that way. They let me read the book right there, but they are "harmed" by that, if your argument holds for scanning causing harm. The problem is that we don't know if copying software causes harm. I'm sure that you are right about book stores and music stores though. They don't know if it will harm them but they suspect that it will. It's not like that with theft. If I steal a book or CD from the store, that is obviously causing harm, and it is obviously different from copying. Mike From dpk at mninter.net Sun Sep 3 10:24:14 2006 From: dpk at mninter.net (Dwayne) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:24:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Gentoo , Migrate to modular X In-Reply-To: <200608170008.40453.jus@krytosvirus.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <990024.1155579192502.JavaMail.root@Sniper26> <200608170008.40453.jus@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: <200609031024.14747.dpk@mninter.net> I had asked in the list a couple weeks ago looking for anyone on the west side of the cities into Gentoo and got a couple answers back . But didn't seem as tho there was anyone that versed in Gentoo. I'm looking at doing the Migrate to Modular X and would like some help understanding it . Any help or insight would be great. Have only been running Linux Gentoo about 18 months and like it . Dwayne From esamuel at mn.rr.com Sun Sep 3 22:26:40 2006 From: esamuel at mn.rr.com (Eugene Samuel) Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 22:26:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Multiple Boot Problem Message-ID: <44FB9CF0.90805@mn.rr.com> My problem: Multiple boot system reverts to XP after a few re-boots? I have set up a multi boot system on a Tablet PC T1000, with three partitions, Windows XP, Ubuntu and Suse 10.0. After 4-8 reboots I lose my boot options and the Tablet boots into XP. Any suggestions for restoring boot options? Eugene From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Sep 4 09:10:05 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:10:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Gentoo , Migrate to modular X In-Reply-To: <13208666.1157315234406.JavaMail.root@sniper35> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200608170008.40453.jus@krytosvirus.com> <13208666.1157315234406.JavaMail.root@sniper35> Message-ID: <200609040910.06862.jus@krytosvirus.com> I have run Gentoo for many years and a month or so ago I migrated to Modular X on both my x86 and amd64 systems. Both went extremely well. The Gentoo migration document is great. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/modular-x-howto.xml What questions do you have not answered in this doc? On Sunday 03 September 2006 10:24, Dwayne wrote: > I had asked in the list a couple weeks ago looking for anyone on the west > side of the cities into Gentoo and got a couple answers back . But didn't > seem as tho there was anyone that versed in Gentoo. I'm looking at doing > the Migrate to Modular X and would like some help understanding it . Any > help or insight would be great. Have only been running Linux Gentoo about > 18 months and like it . > > Dwayne > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com Mon Sep 4 12:56:25 2006 From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson) Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:56:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Gentoo , Migrate to modular X In-Reply-To: <200609040910.06862.jus@krytosvirus.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200608170008.40453.jus@krytosvirus.com> <13208666.1157315234406.JavaMail.root@sniper35> <200609040910.06862.jus@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: <44FC68C9.4030608@mchsi.com> Justin Krejci wrote: > I have run Gentoo for many years and a month or so ago I migrated to Modular X > on both my x86 and amd64 systems. Both went extremely well. The Gentoo > migration document is great. > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/modular-x-howto.xml > > What questions do you have not answered in this doc? > I also have run Gentoo for a while, something like 3 1/2 years now I guess, anyway who cares about that, point is, he is right, that link should answer just about any question you have. Gentoo Docs are most always clear, concise, and kick ass. Also easy to follow and understand. Back to my point, and the previous repliers', what questions do you have that are not answer in that document? If you have some feel free to ask, and the list will repsond. I'll definitely respond if I know the answer. I run gentoo on x86, amd64 (including my kickass new tl-50 x2 laptop.. mmm), ppc, my nslu2s, and am working on alpha, ultrasparc, and sgi O2 at the moment. Gentoo rocks. :p I have netbsd running on my Ibm workpad z50 because vr-linux can only see the first 16 megs of ram, and the extra 32 that netbsd sees adds a lot of usability to this wonderful little beauty of a machine with the longest battery life EVER. ;p (palmtop, running NetBSD/hpcmips) And I have OpenBSD as my firewall, and on any machines that touch the net live, as in not behind the firewall. Anyway, I got off on a tangent there, sorry... point is, ask your gentoo questions that aren't answered in that link, and we'd be happy to help. Nick "All unix, all the time." http://npt.ath.cx > On Sunday 03 September 2006 10:24, Dwayne wrote: >> I had asked in the list a couple weeks ago looking for anyone on the west >> side of the cities into Gentoo and got a couple answers back . But didn't >> seem as tho there was anyone that versed in Gentoo. I'm looking at doing >> the Migrate to Modular X and would like some help understanding it . Any >> help or insight would be great. Have only been running Linux Gentoo about >> 18 months and like it . >> >> Dwayne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dniesen at gmail.com Mon Sep 4 21:13:37 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 21:13:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Process monitoring/auto restart failed processes Message-ID: <47f4d5e70609041913q63a87f1bge99ca063f52a059f@mail.gmail.com> I've been looking for a package that could accomplish something similar to "procautostart": http://www.linuxjunkies.org/html/Process-Monitor-HOWTO.html Basically it monitors a specific process and if it finds that it failed, it issues a command/restarts the process. This one seemed straight-forward enough but I can't seem to get it to compile on my Ubuntu box. Does anybody use this script or something similar to keep a critical process alive? -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060904/b9deeb14/attachment.htm From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Sep 4 22:02:06 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:02:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Process monitoring/auto restart failed processes In-Reply-To: <31383930.1157422789433.JavaMail.root@sniper6> References: <31383930.1157422789433.JavaMail.root@sniper6> Message-ID: <200609042202.06961.jus@krytosvirus.com> http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html I dont use it myself but it apparently does exactly what you want and is written by a fairly well known and generally accepted secure code writer and author of the Qmail MTA and djbdns apps. On Monday 04 September 2006 21:13, Donovan Niesen wrote: > I've been looking for a package that could accomplish something similar to > "procautostart": > > http://www.linuxjunkies.org/html/Process-Monitor-HOWTO.html > > Basically it monitors a specific process and if it finds that it failed, it > issues a command/restarts the process. This one seemed straight-forward > enough but I can't seem to get it to compile on my Ubuntu box. Does > anybody use this script or something similar to keep a critical process > alive? From markring40 at ippimail.com Mon Sep 4 22:58:19 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 04:58:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> > Mike Miller wrote: > The thing I want to address is the notion that such distribution damages > the company that produces the software. That isn't clear. When a program > that usually costs $500, say, is being distributed for free on the > internet in violation of the license, many people will download the > program for free who would never have paid $500 for a properly-licensed > copy. So, a company that might have expected to sell 2,000 copies at $500 > apiece might find that 1,000,000 copies were freely downloaded on the web > against their wishes. But that means that 998,000 more people are using > their program than would have used it otherwise. Are they worse off? > Well that depends on how much they sell. It could hurt them, but it also > could help them. It depends. Mike I think you've answered your own question. The company in your example has lost $499 Million dollars!! That would definately hurt them. It would not help them. Maybe this is a better analogy: I managed broadcast companies for 20 years. If advertisers were able to somehow submit commercials to the station that aired for free - to *sneak* the ads into the station's computer as it were - there would be no financial benefit to the owners or the employees; no matter how much exposure the broadcaster received. If the paying customers then learned of this *free* option they would be much less likely to buy future ad campaigns exacerbating the stations financial problems. In fact the advertisers surreptitiously placing free ads are stealing air-time that can never be resold; lost revenue that can never be made up. It's the same with software. If people download a program or key code to use a program it is typically for a specific use or set of uses. Chances are that when that use is met, or continues to be met, the user will never pay for that software in the future. There would be no need. The software author(s), distributors, investors, etc., are all harmed. I just don't see how all that *exposure* can help in the least. Mark Ring ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Email for the good guys! From rclark at lakesplus.com Tue Sep 5 06:44:31 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 06:44:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher Message-ID: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Anyone use a console switcher that will let you swap between 2 or 4 systems .. mouse ... keyboard ... and monitor ... without having to reboot all the time? I have a switch now ... but the mouse portion of it does not work unless one reboots the other system ... keyboard and monitor are fine ... so i just use two mice and it works ... trying to find one for a client ... 2-4 systems needed on it thanks in advance :-) Randy From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Sep 5 07:28:29 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:28:29 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher Message-ID: <090520061228.22822.44FD6D6D000C82690000592622007354460B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> If you mean a KVM (keyboard-video-mouse), then I use a Linksys SVIEW04 v2 at work and at home with no problems. -- ---- ------ Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Randy Clarksean > Anyone use a console switcher that will let you swap between 2 or 4 > systems .. mouse ... keyboard ... and monitor ... without having to > reboot all the time? > > I have a switch now ... but the mouse portion of it does not work unless > one reboots the other system ... keyboard and monitor are fine ... so i > just use two mice and it works ... > > trying to find one for a client ... 2-4 systems needed on it > > thanks in advance :-) > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Sep 5 09:38:56 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:38:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <090520061228.22822.44FD6D6D000C82690000592622007354460B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> References: <090520061228.22822.44FD6D6D000C82690000592622007354460B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > If you mean a KVM (keyboard-video-mouse), then I use a Linksys SVIEW04 > v2 at work and at home with no problems. Mine is a TRENDnet TK-205i KVM Switch and it also works fine for me -- switching between two computers (on WinXP, one Linux). Mike From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Tue Sep 5 10:09:08 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:09:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] If you get this, you're a geek... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1157468948.27543.270171160@webmail.messagingengine.com> I like it. Funny! ----- Original message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: "TCLUG List" Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:59:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] If you get this, you're a geek... http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/if_you_get_this_youre_a_geek.php Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From c.r.troyer at usfamily.net Tue Sep 5 10:57:58 2006 From: c.r.troyer at usfamily.net (Cyprian Troyer) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:57:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware on IBM TP600 with mwave modem Message-ID: <44FD9E86.4080808@usfamily.net> Greetings, I'm attempting to build a functional Linux installation on my IBM Thinkpad 600. I've gotten my Slackware distribution running, with the exception of support for the mwave modem. I have also been able to get a live CD install running (older ubuntu release) If someone could help me get my hands on the gpl mwave modem driver, I'd be ever so thankful. (The modem is on a MDSP3780i DSP chip) There are many links out there pointing to the IBM website as being able to provide this driver, but with lenovo taking over laptop support, I can't find the needed files. I may just give up on the modem functionality and install a Linux supported wireless card, but I sure would like to be able to use the native capabilities of the machine. I'm also looking for a basic CAD modelling program to replace some MasterCam drawing functions that I regularly use. Thanks, CRT --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 11:44:17 2006 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:44:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware on IBM TP600 with mwave modem In-Reply-To: <44FD9E86.4080808@usfamily.net> References: <44FD9E86.4080808@usfamily.net> Message-ID: On 9/5/06, Cyprian Troyer wrote: > I'm attempting to build a functional Linux installation on my IBM > Thinkpad 600. I've gotten my Slackware distribution running, with the > exception of support for the mwave modem. I have also been able to get a > live CD install running (older ubuntu release) If someone could help me > get my hands on the gpl mwave modem driver, I'd be ever so thankful. The sourceforge page for the driver is: http://sourceforge.net/projects/acpmodem I seem to recall having trouble with it on my TP 603e, but it's been a while since I've tried it (I went the wireless card route). > I'm also looking for a basic CAD > modelling program to replace some MasterCam drawing functions that I > regularly use. I've played around with qcad, but I'm no CAD expert, so I dunno if it'd do what you want. sm From josh at joshwelch.com Tue Sep 5 11:55:40 2006 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:55:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060905115540.sa10bokqpt28cwo0@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com> I used to use the Belkin Omniview line, they were pretty stable as I recall. Josh Quoting Randy Clarksean : > Anyone use a console switcher that will let you swap between 2 or 4 > systems .. mouse ... keyboard ... and monitor ... without having to > reboot all the time? > > I have a switch now ... but the mouse portion of it does not work unless > one reboots the other system ... keyboard and monitor are fine ... so i > just use two mice and it works ... > > trying to find one for a client ... 2-4 systems needed on it > > thanks in advance :-) > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jack at jacku.com Tue Sep 5 12:34:07 2006 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:34:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> On Mon, September 4, 2006 10:58 pm, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >> Mike Miller wrote: >> The thing I want to address is the notion that such distribution damages >> the company that produces the software. That isn't clear. When a >> program >> that usually costs $500, say, is being distributed for free on the >> internet in violation of the license, many people will download the >> program for free who would never have paid $500 for a properly-licensed >> copy. So, a company that might have expected to sell 2,000 copies at >> $500 >> apiece might find that 1,000,000 copies were freely downloaded on the >> web >> against their wishes. But that means that 998,000 more people are using >> their program than would have used it otherwise. Are they worse off? >> Well that depends on how much they sell. It could hurt them, but it >> also >> could help them. It depends. > > Mike I think you've answered your own question. The company in your > example has lost $499 Million dollars!! That would definately hurt them. > It would not help them. > > Maybe this is a better analogy: > > I managed broadcast companies for 20 years. If advertisers were able to > somehow submit commercials to the station that aired for free - to *sneak* > the ads into the station's computer as it were - there would be no > financial benefit to the owners or the employees; no matter how much > exposure the broadcaster received. > > If the paying customers then learned of this *free* option they would be > much less likely to buy future ad campaigns exacerbating the stations > financial problems. > > In fact the advertisers surreptitiously placing free ads are stealing > air-time that can never be resold; lost revenue that can never be made up. > It's the same with software. > > If people download a program or key code to use a program it is typically > for a specific use or set of uses. Chances are that when that use is met, > or continues to be met, the user will never pay for that software in the > future. There would be no need. The software author(s), distributors, > investors, etc., are all harmed. > > I just don't see how all that *exposure* can help in the least. > > Mark Ring > > > Mark, That exposure "helps" in hooking people into the software. Commercial software makers are in the business of sell upgrades. Your analogy doesn't work because there is no way to resell the 30 seconds from 8:04:00 to 8:04:30 on Tusday September 5, 2006 once it has passed. If get a pirated copy of AutoCAD while in college and then go to work for business that is concerned about it license issues or even if you go into a private practice you're more likely to buy a copy then continue to use a pirated copy. More importantly if the SW maker tightens the controls the controls on the software between versions you might shell out for the upgrade. So those 998,000 pirates if 10% buy an upgrade at $100 a pop that's $10,000,000 in revenue. You can't compare the lost $499 million because that money isn't in the equation. You make the assumption that if the pirated software wasn't available then people would by the full price. If you can't afford $500 for the software you use something else. Jack -- Jack Ungerleider jack at jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Sep 5 12:39:57 2006 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 12:39:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... Message-ID: >>> 09/04/06 10:58 PM >>> >Mike I think you've answered your own question. >The company in your example has lost $499 >Million dollars!! That would definately hurt them. >It would not help them. No! The company has simply endured 998,000 violations of their license agreement, something they can create and enforce based on copyright. You may think that translates into the loss of $499M, and Mike may not. While I think the company may be owed $499M by those who violated their license, it is money they never had and in reality were never likely to make. Everyone in the world may come up with some analog for this license/copyright violation, but analogies are made for people who may have a difficult time understanding or relating to a situation. I do not think we at TCLUG have this problem. We do not have to call it Piracy or Theft because all of us can be made to understand exactly what this is (if we don't know already). The attempt to make an analogy is understandable because the situation is complicated. Unfortunately, complicated situations are where analogies fall apart with the greatest speed. To me, the air-time analogy makes the situation seem more mysterious, not less. That is probably because I am less familiar with air-time than I am with software licensing. A non-analogy: You own or are employed at $SoftwarePublisher, and your company produces $SoftwareProduct. $N years of blood, sweat, and tears have gone into making $SoftwareProduct the most $PositiveDescriptor software on the market. You have recently discovered that illegal copies of $SoftwareProduct are easily available from a number of sources. What can you do? What should you do? What will you do and why? Too bad polls usually don't have essay options because I think the answers would be very interesting. From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Tue Sep 5 13:09:43 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:09:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] cdrtools fork available as package Message-ID: <1157479783.16697.270187880@webmail.messagingengine.com> Users who are concerned about sofware freedom may find this at least interesting. Debian developers have forked cdrtools (which I'm sure many of you use -- indirectly as least) due to newer versions being released under CDDL. The fork is called cdrkit. Gentoo now has cdrkit in portage; although it's still hard masked. http://lwn.net/Articles/198171/ From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Sep 5 13:30:28 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:30:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > On Mon, September 4, 2006 10:58 pm, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > >>> Mike Miller wrote: > >>> The thing I want to address is the notion that such distribution >>> damages the company that produces the software. That isn't clear. >>> When a program that usually costs $500, say, is being distributed for >>> free on the internet in violation of the license, many people will >>> download the program for free who would never have paid $500 for a >>> properly-licensed copy. So, a company that might have expected to >>> sell 2,000 copies at $500 apiece might find that 1,000,000 copies were >>> freely downloaded on the web against their wishes. But that means >>> that 998,000 more people are using their program than would have used >>> it otherwise. Are they worse off? Well that depends on how much they >>> sell. It could hurt them, but it also could help them. It depends. >> >> Mike I think you've answered your own question. The company in your >> example has lost $499 Million dollars!! That would definately hurt >> them. It would not help them. Jack-- Read it a little more carefully. I said that the 998,000 users couldn't afford the program and would never have bought it. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Sep 5 13:31:48 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:31:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jack Ungerleider wrote: > >> On Mon, September 4, 2006 10:58 pm, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >> >>>> Mike Miller wrote: >> >>>> The thing I want to address is the notion that such distribution >>>> damages the company that produces the software. That isn't clear. >>>> When a program that usually costs $500, say, is being distributed for >>>> free on the internet in violation of the license, many people will >>>> download the program for free who would never have paid $500 for a >>>> properly-licensed copy. So, a company that might have expected to >>>> sell 2,000 copies at $500 apiece might find that 1,000,000 copies were >>>> freely downloaded on the web against their wishes. But that means >>>> that 998,000 more people are using their program than would have used >>>> it otherwise. Are they worse off? Well that depends on how much they >>>> sell. It could hurt them, but it also could help them. It depends. >>> >>> Mike I think you've answered your own question. The company in your >>> example has lost $499 Million dollars!! That would definately hurt >>> them. It would not help them. > > > Jack-- > > Read it a little more carefully. I said that the 998,000 users couldn't > afford the program and would never have bought it. Oops. Sorry -- "markring" not Jack!! Jack had it right. Mike From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Tue Sep 5 13:52:49 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:52:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] cdrtools fork available as package In-Reply-To: <1157479783.16697.270187880@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1157479783.16697.270187880@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1157482369.21527.270192198@webmail.messagingengine.com> Correction: *parts* of cdrtools are released under CDDL. ----- Original message ----- From: "Isaac Atilano" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 13:09:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] cdrtools fork available as package Users who are concerned about sofware freedom may find this at least interesting. Debian developers have forked cdrtools (which I'm sure many of you use -- indirectly as least) due to newer versions being released under CDDL. The fork is called cdrkit. Gentoo now has cdrkit in portage; although it's still hard masked. http://lwn.net/Articles/198171/ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Tue Sep 5 13:51:00 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:51:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609051851.k85Ip0h11197@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Free computers and printers I have two HP 9000 computers, one Apple laserwriter 630 and a HP officejet 600 printer I'm giving away. Contact me if you are interested in any of these items. Thanks Joseph Seller Email address: jkey at tomobiki dot dyndns dot org http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 15:40:39 2006 From: jeff.rasmussen at gmail.com (Jeff Rasmussen) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:40:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> I've used Avocent Switchview because of their ability to reset the mouse and keyboard without rebooting the computers. The sequence Ctrl-Ctrl-M-R will reset the mouse which is the only command I have needed to remember. -- Jeff Rasmussen GPG public key 0x9686C12F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060905/d6e3151f/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Sep 5 17:01:08 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:01:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > I've used Avocent Switchview because of their ability to reset the mouse > and keyboard without rebooting the computers. I guess that is a KVM. Three earlier posts before this one mentioned KVMs that also did not require rebooting. Maybe I don't get this. The whole point of the KVM is that you can switch without rebooting. > The sequence Ctrl-Ctrl-M-R will reset the mouse which is the only > command I have needed to remember. That command is used with what software? Do you need to use that with Avocent Switchview? If so, I would recommend using one of the three other brands just discussed because none of them require a special keystroke. You just switch and it works. Mike From justin.kremer at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 17:21:45 2006 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:21:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27e6356a0609051521r17c37228w3babb2b6b3d3a4d6@mail.gmail.com> On 9/5/06, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > > > I've used Avocent Switchview because of their ability to reset the mouse > > and keyboard without rebooting the computers. > > I guess that is a KVM. Three earlier posts before this one mentioned KVMs > that also did not require rebooting. Maybe I don't get this. The whole > point of the KVM is that you can switch without rebooting. I think you misunderstood what he meant. Many of the cheaper KVM's have issues with mouse or keyboard disconnecting every once in a while. (Like the Belkins we have where I work...my input is don't go with the Belkin Omniview E series) I believe that command is a way to make the mouse reconnect without having to reboot the computer. On most KVM's that have such an issue, you end up having to reboot the computer that had the mouse disconnect, or go without your mouse. In fact, the Belkins here have a "reset" button on them, but that doesn't even always work to get the mouse input back. That said, I've never had any issues with HP's rackmount 8 port IP KVM switches, but they're pretty spendy. - Justin From rhavenn at rhavenn.net Tue Sep 5 17:22:51 2006 From: rhavenn at rhavenn.net (Henrik Hudson) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:22:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] streamlining the Ubuntu's? Message-ID: <200609051722.51642.rhavenn@rhavenn.net> Hey Guys / Gals- Anyone have some info or a good link to help with streamlining the Ubuntu's? I was running XUbuntu (Dapper) for a bit and although I loved the interface, package management, etc... it tended to be a bit flaky on my laptop. My sound would not work on some reboots, but then work fine the next reboot. My resolve.conf would not get updated all the time and just other little nit-picky things. I think a lot of this has to do with all the modules and hardware detection on boot and that it would just get confused. So, are there any good docs out their which focus on removing modules / recompiling the kernel for Ubuntu or is this rather pointless as the next binary update of the kernel, etc... will just toast those changes? Anyways..I went scurrying back to the comfort of BSD after a few weeks...but sucks not having sound and I do miss my Flash :( Yes, I know the Linux flash port..it just isn't the same. Henrik -- Henrik Hudson rhavenn at rhavenn.net ------------------------------ "There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't..." From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Sep 5 17:36:58 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:36:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0609051521r17c37228w3babb2b6b3d3a4d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> <27e6356a0609051521r17c37228w3babb2b6b3d3a4d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Justin Kremer wrote: > On 9/5/06, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: >> >>> I've used Avocent Switchview because of their ability to reset the mouse >>> and keyboard without rebooting the computers. >> >> I guess that is a KVM. Three earlier posts before this one mentioned KVMs >> that also did not require rebooting. Maybe I don't get this. The whole >> point of the KVM is that you can switch without rebooting. > > I think you misunderstood what he meant. Many of the cheaper KVM's have > issues with mouse or keyboard disconnecting every once in a while. > (Like the Belkins we have where I work...my input is don't go with the > Belkin Omniview E series) I believe that command is a way to make the > mouse reconnect without having to reboot the computer. On most KVM's > that have such an issue, you end up having to reboot the computer that > had the mouse disconnect, or go without your mouse. In fact, the > Belkins here have a "reset" button on them, but that doesn't even always > work to get the mouse input back. That said, I've never had any issues > with HP's rackmount 8 port IP KVM switches, but they're pretty spendy. Thanks. I understand. It is usually a bad idea to disconnect mouse or keyboard from a running computer, so I haven't done it with my KVM and I don't know how it would cope with that. It would probably fail. Mike From justin.kremer at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 17:48:49 2006 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:48:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> <27e6356a0609051521r17c37228w3babb2b6b3d3a4d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27e6356a0609051548r3caefb96s6460d2d9dedc2232@mail.gmail.com> On 9/5/06, Mike Miller wrote: > Thanks. I understand. It is usually a bad idea to disconnect mouse or > keyboard from a running computer, so I haven't done it with my KVM and I > don't know how it would cope with that. It would probably fail. Oh, I actually meant that some KVM's will spontaneously disconnect the keyboard or mouse. You can have the computer running with all cables securely connected the whole time, and switch to one of the systems, and you won't be able to use the mouse. That's very frustrating when it happens. That's the issue that we have with the Belkin ones. - Justin From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Sep 5 18:07:25 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:07:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0609051548r3caefb96s6460d2d9dedc2232@mail.gmail.com> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> <27e6356a0609051521r17c37228w3babb2b6b3d3a4d6@mail.gmail.com> <27e6356a0609051548r3caefb96s6460d2d9dedc2232@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Justin Kremer wrote: > On 9/5/06, Mike Miller wrote: >> Thanks. I understand. It is usually a bad idea to disconnect mouse or >> keyboard from a running computer, so I haven't done it with my KVM and I >> don't know how it would cope with that. It would probably fail. > > Oh, I actually meant that some KVM's will spontaneously disconnect the > keyboard or mouse. You can have the computer running with all cables > securely connected the whole time, and switch to one of the systems, and > you won't be able to use the mouse. That's very frustrating when it > happens. That's the issue that we have with the Belkin ones. OK. Then I guess my original point stands because my KVM (TRENDnet) has never done that. It has worked consistently. Mike From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Sep 5 18:58:13 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:58:13 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher Message-ID: <090520062358.8261.44FE0F150005BFD50000204522070209530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> I have used my Linksys SVIEW04 at work and at home on Windows and Linux machines and have never had to reboot a Linux PC because the mouse or keyboard stopped responding. (Windows is another story.) -- ---- ------ Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Mike Miller > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jeff Rasmussen wrote: > > > I've used Avocent Switchview because of their ability to reset the mouse > > and keyboard without rebooting the computers. > > I guess that is a KVM. Three earlier posts before this one mentioned KVMs > that also did not require rebooting. Maybe I don't get this. The whole > point of the KVM is that you can switch without rebooting. > > > > The sequence Ctrl-Ctrl-M-R will reset the mouse which is the only > > command I have needed to remember. > > That command is used with what software? Do you need to use that with > Avocent Switchview? If so, I would recommend using one of the three other > brands just discussed because none of them require a special keystroke. > You just switch and it works. > > Mike From markring40 at ippimail.com Tue Sep 5 20:20:03 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 02:20:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> Message-ID: <18433.72.131.89.243.1157505603.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Jack, I agree that the commercial analogy isn't an exact fit. It does illustrate the overal point. However, I'm unable to follow the logic as to how your position along with Mike's benefits any one other than the end user. The percentage of serious shoppers (soon to be buyers) that end up actually purchasing a product or service from a specific vendor ranges between 3% - 25%. The difference is due to many factors but mainly due to price. The higher the ticket the lower the *closing ratio*. Now nearly all the serious shoppers end up buying the product or service but do so from different vendors or end up with a slightly different product or service. Your 10% is right on the money. So while in college the student in your example uses, for free, someone elses software to benefit their own learning. The other nearly 900,000 non-paying users, who opted out of the upgrade, also benefit free of charge from someone elses hard work. Many of that large group will never buy the software when their need is gone. Most of us resist spending money unless we must - why should we? The only real beneficiary is the non-paying end user. Having said all that; if a developer chooses to market software that way then I have no problem. They chose the model and the financial risk is theirs. But my opinion is that if it is such a good model for merchandising software profitably everyone would be falling all over each other making it happen. As yet, I don't see it happening. Mark Ring > >Mark, > > That exposure "helps" in hooking people into the software. Commercial > software makers are in the business of sell upgrades. Your analogy doesn't > work because there is no way to resell the 30 seconds from 8:04:00 to > 8:04:30 on Tusday September 5, 2006 once it has passed. If get a pirated > copy of AutoCAD while in college and then go to work for business that is > concerned about it license issues or even if you go into a private > practice you're more likely to buy a copy then continue to use a pirated > copy. More importantly if the SW maker tightens the controls the controls > on the software between versions you might shell out for the upgrade. So > those 998,000 pirates if 10% buy an upgrade at $100 a pop that's > $10,000,000 in revenue. You can't compare the lost $499 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Now with 200mb storage and Google-powered search! Feelgood email! From markring40 at ippimail.com Tue Sep 5 20:26:27 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 02:26:27 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <1280.206.188.233.74.1157230828.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <27e6356a0609021556v4c392684i5fc8d6476a385c0f@mail.gmail.com> <39237.72.131.89.243.1157428699.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <12523.70.59.124.241.1157477647.squirrel@mail.zoper.com> Message-ID: <15385.72.131.89.243.1157505987.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Lack of funds doesn't change that fact the nearly 1 Million users are personally benefiting from someone else effort - for free. The creator of the product realizes 0 benefit. Where I grew up in Robbinsdale they used to call that stealing. However...as I wrote to Jack...if the developer chooses to market their software in that manner then more power to them. Thanks you guys for an interesting debate! Mark Ring > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Jack Ungerleider wrote: >> >>> On Mon, September 4, 2006 10:58 pm, markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >>> >>>>> Mike Miller wrote: >>> >>>>> The thing I want to address is the notion that such distribution >>>>> damages the company that produces the software. That isn't clear. >>>>> When a program that usually costs $500, say, is being distributed for >>>>> free on the internet in violation of the license, many people will >>>>> download the program for free who would never have paid $500 for a >>>>> properly-licensed copy. So, a company that might have expected to >>>>> sell 2,000 copies at $500 apiece might find that 1,000,000 copies >>>>> were >>>>> freely downloaded on the web against their wishes. But that means >>>>> that 998,000 more people are using their program than would have used >>>>> it otherwise. Are they worse off? Well that depends on how much they >>>>> sell. It could hurt them, but it also could help them. It depends. >>>> >>>> Mike I think you've answered your own question. The company in your >>>> example has lost $499 Million dollars!! That would definately hurt >>>> them. It would not help them. >> >> >> Jack-- >> >> Read it a little more carefully. I said that the 998,000 users couldn't >> afford the program and would never have bought it. > > > Oops. Sorry -- "markring" not Jack!! Jack had it right. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Now with 200mb storage and Google-powered search! Feelgood email! From markring40 at ippimail.com Tue Sep 5 20:58:54 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 02:58:54 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41127.72.131.89.243.1157507934.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> > No! The company has simply endured 998,000 violations > of their license agreement, something they can create and > enforce based on copyright. You may think that translates > into the loss of $499M, and Mike may not. While I think the > company may be owed $499M by those who violated > their license, it is money they never had and in reality > were never likely to make. According to whom? I don't believe you've ever owned or managed a business. If someone uses a product you created and they have never paid for it; as the owner of that company you would most definately call that a loss. > > Everyone in the world may come up with some analog > for this license/copyright violation, but analogies are > made for people who may have a difficult time > understanding or relating to a situation. I do not think > we at TCLUG have this problem. We do not have to > call it Piracy or Theft because all of us can be made > to understand exactly what this is (if we don't know > already). > My puny intellect trembles in the shadow of your tremendous 10-pound brain. I'm not worthy. > The attempt to make an analogy is understandable > because the situation is complicated. Unfortunately, > complicated situations are where analogies fall apart > with the greatest speed. Well your weighty opinion goes against almost all pedagological evidence. I challenge you to prove your assertion. We can email off the list so we don't bore others with our debate > A non-analogy: > > You own or are employed at $SoftwarePublisher, > and your company produces $SoftwareProduct. $N > years of blood, sweat, and tears have gone into > making $SoftwareProduct the most $PositiveDescriptor > software on the market. You have recently discovered > that illegal copies of $SoftwareProduct are easily > available from a number of sources. > What can you do? > What should you do? > What will you do and why? > I see...a non-analogy analogy Mark Ring ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Now with 200mb storage and Google-powered search! Feelgood email! From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Sep 6 02:04:35 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 02:04:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <41127.72.131.89.243.1157507934.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <41127.72.131.89.243.1157507934.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: >> No! The company has simply endured 998,000 violations of their license >> agreement, something they can create and enforce based on copyright. >> You may think that translates into the loss of $499M, and Mike may not. >> While I think the company may be owed $499M by those who violated their >> license, it is money they never had and in reality were never likely to >> make. > > According to whom? I don't believe you've ever owned or managed a > business. If someone uses a product you created and they have never > paid for it; as the owner of that company you would most definately call > that a loss. I think it's fair to say that you just don't understand our point. So I think we should drop it because either you don't want to understand or you are unable to understand. What we are talking about has nothing to do with whether you have create software and it has nothing to do with laws. It also has nothing to do with what a company will call a loss. If you would read my earliest post with the 998,000 in it, maybe there is hope that you will understand what I was saying, but I doubt it. Mike From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 06:02:34 2006 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:02:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] If you get this, you're a geek... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2c6699da0609060402g39bdf9c0wfb00e251c5ad6d35@mail.gmail.com> On 9/2/06, Mike Miller wrote: > http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/if_you_get_this_youre_a_geek.php Very funny. I really need to hang this in my cubicle so I can count the blank stares as people try to figure it out. -Brian From markring40 at ippimail.com Wed Sep 6 07:20:19 2006 From: markring40 at ippimail.com (markring40 at ippimail.com) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:20:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: References: <41127.72.131.89.243.1157507934.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <29249.72.131.89.243.1157545219.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> I understand your point. I just disagree with you. Because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. Or that I am incapable of understanding. I agree to drop the discussion. We are just beating a dead horse. > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > >>> No! The company has simply endured 998,000 violations of their license >>> agreement, something they can create and enforce based on copyright. >>> You may think that translates into the loss of $499M, and Mike may not. >>> While I think the company may be owed $499M by those who violated their >>> license, it is money they never had and in reality were never likely to >>> make. >> >> According to whom? I don't believe you've ever owned or managed a >> business. If someone uses a product you created and they have never >> paid for it; as the owner of that company you would most definately call >> that a loss. > > I think it's fair to say that you just don't understand our point. So I > think we should drop it because either you don't want to understand or you > are unable to understand. What we are talking about has nothing to do > with whether you have create software and it has nothing to do with laws. > It also has nothing to do with what a company will call a loss. If you > would read my earliest post with the 998,000 in it, maybe there is hope > that you will understand what I was saying, but I doubt it. > > Mike > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Now with 200mb storage and Google-powered search! Feelgood email! From tclug at greatlakedata.com Wed Sep 6 08:12:25 2006 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 08:12:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> <27e6356a0609051521r17c37228w3babb2b6b3d3a4d6@mail.gmail.com> <27e6356a0609051548r3caefb96s6460d2d9dedc2232@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FEC939.6040207@greatlakedata.com> >> On 9/5/06, Mike Miller wrote: >>> Thanks. I understand. It is usually a bad idea to disconnect mouse or >>> keyboard from a running computer, so I haven't done it with my KVM and I >>> don't know how it would cope with that. It would probably fail. have the trendnet TK-205i here, it only does 2 computers but i use it amongst 6 satisfactorily. the windows mouse generally won't work at first when you plug in a plain mouse on a live system, but when i plugin the trendnet and operate the KVM switch the windows mouse then works. linux can recover mouse function after live plugin by merely switching virtual terminals even without a KVM. or if you have a usb mouse live plugin just works. greg wm IT Coordinator NonviolentPeaceforce.org From queasyfish at yahoo.com Wed Sep 6 08:34:20 2006 From: queasyfish at yahoo.com (queasyfish) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <29249.72.131.89.243.1157545219.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: <20060906133420.4024.qmail@web38902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good Morning; You guys crack me up - this is a conversation for fun, right? ;) It seems pretty clear to me: Developers/companys make software products to sell. If you use the products without paying for them you are stealing them. I'm stealing them, I clearly realize that. -doesn't matter if you think the software costs too much -doesn't matter if you think the company is trying to crush the competition though any means necessary (of course they are they're running a business) -doesn't matter if you think software should be free (speech or beer) -doesn't matter if you would or wouldn't have purchased the software if you hadn't stolen it. The only difference between stealing Bill Gate's software and his car is if you steal his car both of you can't drive it to work. - and perhaps that's a significant difference, but it doesn't change the fact... that it's... still... stealing. So, stealing being a fact, ask yourself: What would Bill rather have you, the computer enthusiast, doing - using stolen Windows XP or growing and promoting LInux? John markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: I understand your point. I just disagree with you. Because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. Or that I am incapable of understanding. I agree to drop the discussion. We are just beating a dead horse. > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > >>> No! The company has simply endured 998,000 violations of their license >>> agreement, something they can create and enforce based on copyright. >>> You may think that translates into the loss of $499M, and Mike may not. >>> While I think the company may be owed $499M by those who violated their >>> license, it is money they never had and in reality were never likely to >>> make. >> >> According to whom? I don't believe you've ever owned or managed a >> business. If someone uses a product you created and they have never >> paid for it; as the owner of that company you would most definately call >> that a loss. > > I think it's fair to say that you just don't understand our point. So I > think we should drop it because either you don't want to understand or you > are unable to understand. What we are talking about has nothing to do > with whether you have create software and it has nothing to do with laws. > It also has nothing to do with what a company will call a loss. If you > would read my earliest post with the 998,000 in it, maybe there is hope > that you will understand what I was saying, but I doubt it. > > Mike > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Now with 200mb storage and Google-powered search! Feelgood email! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060906/b5a5d27d/attachment.htm From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Wed Sep 6 09:15:38 2006 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:15:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <20060906133420.4024.qmail@web38902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060906133420.4024.qmail@web38902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1157552138.29244.270264760@webmail.messagingengine.com> It's not stealing. It's piracy, comparable to murder, rape and plundering! ----- Original message ----- From: "queasyfish" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... Good Morning; You guys crack me up - this is a conversation for fun, right? ;) It seems pretty clear to me: Developers/companys make software products to sell. If you use the products without paying for them you are stealing them. I'm stealing them, I clearly realize that. -doesn't matter if you think the software costs too much -doesn't matter if you think the company is trying to crush the competition though any means necessary (of course they are they're running a business) -doesn't matter if you think software should be free (speech or beer) -doesn't matter if you would or wouldn't have purchased the software if you hadn't stolen it. The only difference between stealing Bill Gate's software and his car is if you steal his car both of you can't drive it to work. - and perhaps that's a significant difference, but it doesn't change the fact... that it's... still... stealing. So, stealing being a fact, ask yourself: What would Bill rather have you, the computer enthusiast, doing - using stolen Windows XP or growing and promoting LInux? John markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: I understand your point. I just disagree with you. Because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. Or that I am incapable of understanding. I agree to drop the discussion. We are just beating a dead horse. > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > >>> No! The company has simply endured 998,000 violations of their license >>> agreement, something they can create and enforce based on copyright. >>> You may think that translates into the loss of $499M, and Mike may not. >>> While I think the company may be owed $499M by those who violated their >>> license, it is money they never had and in reality were never likely to >>> make. >> >> According to whom? I don't believe you've ever owned or managed a >> business. If someone uses a product you created and they have never >> paid for it; as the owner of that company you would most definately call >> that a loss. > > I think it's fair to say that you just don't understand our point. So I > think we should drop it because either you don't want to understand or you > are unable to understand. What we are talking about has nothing to do > with whether you have create software and it has nothing to do with laws. > It also has nothing to do with what a company will call a loss. If you > would read my earliest post with the 998,000 in it, maybe there is hope > that you will understand what I was saying, but I doubt it. > > Mike > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get a free email address at http://www.ippimail.com and support your favorite charity without it costing you a penny. Now with 200mb storage and Google-powered search! Feelgood email! _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. From tclug at greatlakedata.com Wed Sep 6 09:24:07 2006 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:24:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] outsource? Message-ID: <44FEDA07.3020403@greatlakedata.com> hi folks, should i give up on implementing our own perfect system, and just outsource instead? i am grudgingly seriously considering outsourcing because there's no way i can provide super high reliability figures with just myself to respond if problems occur. but i really like that we have filtered spam available for review via imap. and i'm proud to have restored numerous accidentally deleted files and directories for folks using Backup-PC's online interface. seems like these are the sort of things we'd have to give up if our data were elsewhere. or am i wrong? AOL offers free domain hosting with imap. their likely availability and reliability figures make it an attractive alternative to our org. and free is hard to beat. but i would love to hear about other alternatives please. our website is currently a hodgepodge incorporating several versions of drupal. of course they are separable, but still it probably makes sense to host the website and email at the same place. and yes some drupal design work could likely be sold to our org. we've already got a proposal from eFrame for onsite stuff. can folks please point me to the best open source providers of comparable services? tia, greg wm IT Coordinator NonviolentPeaceforce.org From tclug at greatlakedata.com Wed Sep 6 09:33:25 2006 From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:33:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] get organized? Message-ID: <44FEDC35.6060207@greatlakedata.com> hey, while i'm asking questions, what do you open source types do to keep organized? my text file to-do list is constantly overflowing and needing to be reorganized, which rarely happens because it is too overwhelming. a big part of the problem is i am a perfectionist who constantly wants to do far more than i can possibly do. so it's unlikely that any wonderful technology can help much as opposed to make things even worse, but still, i thought perhaps at least i should ask... tia, greg wm IT Coordinator NonviolentPeaceforce.org From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Wed Sep 6 10:07:59 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 10:07:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] get organized? In-Reply-To: <44FEDC35.6060207@greatlakedata.com> References: <44FEDC35.6060207@greatlakedata.com> Message-ID: <20060906150759.GA16225@mail.el-swifto.com> On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 09:33:25AM -0500, greg wm wrote: > while i'm asking questions, what do you open source types do to keep > organized? my text file to-do list is constantly overflowing and > needing to be reorganized, which rarely happens because it is too > overwhelming. a big part of the problem is i am a perfectionist who > constantly wants to do far more than i can possibly do. so it's > unlikely that any wonderful technology can help much as opposed to > make things even worse, but still, i thought perhaps at least i should > ask... I use a combination of paper (calendar, notebook, 3x5 cards, lots of file folders) and a Palm Pilot (handy for audible alerts). To make this on-topic, I'll mention that there are several tools that will let you synch your Palm to your Linux desktop. Right now I'm using kpilot which meets my needs. When my Palm dies I'll probably replace it with a Linux-based handheld. I hear Nokia has something good along those lines. Anyone else know better? I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist but I have the same problem you do--so much to do, so little time! -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 10:33:36 2006 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 10:33:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] get organized? In-Reply-To: <44FEDC35.6060207@greatlakedata.com> References: <44FEDC35.6060207@greatlakedata.com> Message-ID: On 9/6/06, greg wm wrote: > [...] > what do you open source types do to keep organized? I like devtodo (http://swapoff.org/DevTodo) and remind (you'll have to Google that one). devtodo is good for managing a todo list in a source tree. The project site has a pretty handy sample script to make unfinished tasks display when you cd into a directory. remind can track fancy recurring events (first tuesday of every second month, etc), and generates nice postscript or html calendars. sm From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 10:32:42 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 10:32:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] get organized? In-Reply-To: <20060906150759.GA16225@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <44FEDC35.6060207@greatlakedata.com> <20060906150759.GA16225@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: Personally I have a personalized Google homepage with a sticky note and a to-do list plugin. In addition, I use google's calendar and a plugin for the Flock browser to view mine and my wife's calendars from whichever pc I happen to be on. Between these 3 things, it keeps me fairly organized. -jordan On 9/6/06, John J. Trammell wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 09:33:25AM -0500, greg wm wrote: > > while i'm asking questions, what do you open source types do to keep > > organized? my text file to-do list is constantly overflowing and > > needing to be reorganized, which rarely happens because it is too > > overwhelming. a big part of the problem is i am a perfectionist who > > constantly wants to do far more than i can possibly do. so it's > > unlikely that any wonderful technology can help much as opposed to > > make things even worse, but still, i thought perhaps at least i should > > ask... > > I use a combination of paper (calendar, notebook, 3x5 cards, lots of > file folders) and a Palm Pilot (handy for audible alerts). > > To make this on-topic, I'll mention that there are several tools that > will let you synch your Palm to your Linux desktop. Right now I'm using > kpilot which meets my needs. When my Palm dies I'll probably replace it > with a Linux-based handheld. I hear Nokia has something good along > those lines. Anyone else know better? > > I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist but I have the same problem you > do--so much to do, so little time! > > -- > trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 > Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060906/8fd703d4/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Sep 6 12:12:29 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 12:12:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Poll topic- I use linux because... In-Reply-To: <29249.72.131.89.243.1157545219.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> References: <41127.72.131.89.243.1157507934.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> <29249.72.131.89.243.1157545219.squirrel@www.ippimail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 markring40 at ippimail.com wrote: > I understand your point. I just disagree with you. Because I disagree > doesn't mean I don't understand. Or that I am incapable of > understanding. No, it's because you write things that indicate that you do not understand. Mike From jsievert at gmail.com Wed Sep 6 12:29:56 2006 From: jsievert at gmail.com (Jason Sievert) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 12:29:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Gentoo , Migrate to modular X In-Reply-To: <44FC68C9.4030608@mchsi.com> References: <20060814174330.25782.qmail@web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <200608170008.40453.jus@krytosvirus.com> <13208666.1157315234406.JavaMail.root@sniper35> <200609040910.06862.jus@krytosvirus.com> <44FC68C9.4030608@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <6cfb19470609061029g2611a388id9010d86fa8d48d3@mail.gmail.com> Another great resource that I use alot being a avid Gentoo fan is the wiki. http://gentoo-wiki.com/Main_Page On 9/4/06, nick thompson wrote: > > Justin Krejci wrote: > > I have run Gentoo for many years and a month or so ago I migrated to > Modular X > > on both my x86 and amd64 systems. Both went extremely well. The Gentoo > > migration document is great. > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/modular-x-howto.xml > > > > What questions do you have not answered in this doc? > > > > I also have run Gentoo for a while, something like 3 1/2 years now I > guess, anyway who cares about that, point is, he is right, that link > should answer just about any question you have. Gentoo Docs are most > always clear, concise, and kick ass. Also easy to follow and understand. > > Back to my point, and the previous repliers', what questions do you have > that are not answer in that document? If you have some feel free to ask, > and the list will repsond. I'll definitely respond if I know the answer. > I run gentoo on x86, amd64 (including my kickass new tl-50 x2 laptop.. > mmm), ppc, my nslu2s, and am working on alpha, ultrasparc, and sgi O2 at > the moment. Gentoo rocks. :p > > I have netbsd running on my Ibm workpad z50 because vr-linux can only > see the first 16 megs of ram, and the extra 32 that netbsd sees adds a > lot of usability to this wonderful little beauty of a machine with the > longest battery life EVER. ;p (palmtop, running NetBSD/hpcmips) > > And I have OpenBSD as my firewall, and on any machines that touch the > net live, as in not behind the firewall. > > Anyway, I got off on a tangent there, sorry... > > > point is, ask your gentoo questions that aren't answered in that link, > and we'd be happy to help. > > Nick > > "All unix, all the time." > > http://npt.ath.cx > > > > > On Sunday 03 September 2006 10:24, Dwayne wrote: > >> I had asked in the list a couple weeks ago looking for anyone on the > west > >> side of the cities into Gentoo and got a couple answers back . But > didn't > >> seem as tho there was anyone that versed in Gentoo. I'm looking at > doing > >> the Migrate to Modular X and would like some help understanding it . > Any > >> help or insight would be great. Have only been running Linux Gentoo > about > >> 18 months and like it . > >> > >> Dwayne > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060906/63496784/attachment.htm From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Sep 6 16:29:51 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:29:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609062129.k86LTpL30159@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Free Stuff Time Again Computer - AMD K6 III 450mhz, 128mg Memory, 15gb HD, 4X CD burner! Canon MultiPass C5500 print/scan/fax ? needs cartridge Misc. mice Misc. computer speakers 2 gameport joy sticks Parallel cable Netcam (parallel port) SanDisk Smart Media reader (usb) Surge protector w/telephone (under monitor style) Pick-up in Apple Valley Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From austad at signal15.com Wed Sep 6 17:50:32 2006 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:50:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] digg clone source... Message-ID: <838837C0-2413-4BBB-9F56-F2EAEE59C910@signal15.com> Does anyone have any recommendations for open source packages that replicate the functionality of digg.com? I'm doing a project where I need something, and there a bunch of stuff out there, but it's all alpha or beta software. From dniesen at gmail.com Thu Sep 7 07:58:23 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:58:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Checking for a sleeping screen Message-ID: <47f4d5e70609070558r726ffedenb8445d49347905a2@mail.gmail.com> I have a few boxes scattered around that are supposed to be keeping the displays active but I have been getting complaints that some of them are going black. I have a pretty good idea that the monitors are going into power save or sleep mode but don't know how to tell for sure. The one place I can think of to check is /proc/acpi/video/ but I'm wondering if there might be another area. They are running X.org if that makes a difference at all. -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060907/f651264d/attachment.htm From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Sep 7 09:27:32 2006 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Checking for a sleeping screen In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70609070558r726ffedenb8445d49347905a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70609070558r726ffedenb8445d49347905a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You can always try 'xset q'. Right at the end should be: DPMS (Energy Star): Standby: 1200 Suspend: 2400 Off: 3600 DPMS is Enabled Monitor is On But the acpi might override that. I'd disable DPMS ('xset -dpms') and try disabling acpi, too... On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Donovan Niesen wrote: > I have a few boxes scattered around that are supposed to be keeping the > displays active but I have been getting complaints that some of them are > going black. I have a pretty good idea that the monitors are going into > power save or sleep mode but don't know how to tell for sure. The one place > I can think of to check is /proc/acpi/video/ but I'm wondering if there > might be another area. They are running X.org if that makes a difference at > all. > > -- > Donovan Niesen > -Yaron -- From josh at joshwelch.com Thu Sep 7 09:35:52 2006 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:35:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060907093552.3ydo5mfn5vs4o8o4@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com> Quoting Mike Miller : > I guess that is a KVM. Three earlier posts before this one mentioned KVMs > that also did not require rebooting. Maybe I don't get this. The whole > point of the KVM is that you can switch without rebooting. That is the point of a KVM. The reality is that some are more stable than others, the less stable ones will occasionally "lose" the mouse leaving you to need to reboot the box on that port in order for it to "find" the mouse again. From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Sep 7 13:26:29 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:26:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. Message-ID: <1157653589.18765.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> First .. thanks for the KVM emails this past week. You helped me narrow in on some hardware that will work for what I need. I will be moving my office shortly and I want to "clean up" a number of messy network issues that have created themselves over time ... laziness or hurrying to get something to work ... I need to streamline some things. One is a print and file server. Concern: I want to be able to run my HP OfficeJet 6310xi All-in-One via the printer server ... and ... have the ability to scan documents, etc. to a computer, whether it be a Linux or Windows box. It is a USB connection ... or can be connected via the network itself (I believe that its capabilities are limited for Linux when hooked up on the network connection). Hooking it straight to a Linux box ... appears to have limited some of its capabilities already. The scanning of documents is flakey ... and sometimes does not work at all. Anyone have any experience to share with me about print servers and the ability to actually take full advantage of all features from one of these all in ones? Maybe I am doing something wrong ... fancy that :-) Thanks in advance. Randy From rclark at lakesplus.com Thu Sep 7 13:57:15 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:57:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. In-Reply-To: <200609071342.40011.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> References: <1157653589.18765.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200609071342.40011.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> Message-ID: <1157655435.18765.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have installed xsane ... and it has been used with limited success. That is my concern I guess. I could just install it on a PC and share it via samba ... then use the file server as a repository for any files scanned in ... but was hoping to move it to a higher level. Thanks for your thoughts. I have tried using more specific drivers, but with limited success ... probably because I can not get them to install properly. Randy On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 13:42 -0500, Jonathan Kline wrote: > All in ones are shaddy devices, at best. > > If your hp is similar to my epson all in one, then essentially the buttons on > the front panel (e.g. scan/copy/etc) are tied to software functions, which > require the software shipped on the install cds... > > Anyways unless there is something I don't know about cups... you will need to > configure say cups to handle the print aspect of it, and something like > xsane/saned for the scanning end of things..... > > As far as sane goes, google for things like sane server, xsane shared, etc. > Once again, if your hp is anything like my Epson it will take some "magic" to > get it to all work.... Plus you might need to load the HP drivers to get all > of the printer functions working... (aka hplj or similar named packages) > > Good Luck, > ~J > > > On Thursday 07 September 2006 13:26, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > First .. thanks for the KVM emails this past week. You helped me narrow > > in on some hardware that will work for what I need. > > > > I will be moving my office shortly and I want to "clean up" a number of > > messy network issues that have created themselves over time ... laziness > > or hurrying to get something to work ... I need to streamline some > > things. > > > > One is a print and file server. > > > > Concern: I want to be able to run my HP OfficeJet 6310xi All-in-One via > > the printer server ... and ... have the ability to scan documents, etc. > > to a computer, whether it be a Linux or Windows box. It is a USB > > connection ... or can be connected via the network itself (I believe > > that its capabilities are limited for Linux when hooked up on the > > network connection). > > > > Hooking it straight to a Linux box ... appears to have limited some of > > its capabilities already. The scanning of documents is flakey ... and > > sometimes does not work at all. > > > > Anyone have any experience to share with me about print servers and the > > ability to actually take full advantage of all features from one of > > these all in ones? Maybe I am doing something wrong ... fancy that :-) > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From swaite at sbn-services.com Thu Sep 7 14:48:25 2006 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:48:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Using 2 different mail servers for 1 domain Message-ID: I have in the past used differing mail servers with different domains, i.e. dm1.net to Exchange and dm1.com to Imap. Now I have a question about having mail sent through a gateway to one domain to be sent to two different mail servers. Then user could either use Imap, mDaemon, etc. as well as Exchange. For example at the office it would be Exchange, and remotely it would be another server. Important to note this would not be in any time a load balancing or failover situation. Especially failover, as that would simply not work, and load balancing servers usually require the secondary to be of the same type (i.e. Domino/Exchange). The reason why is long and idiotic, so I wont bore you with those details. Sean Waite From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Thu Sep 7 15:32:05 2006 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:32:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. In-Reply-To: <1157653589.18765.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I'm running an HP Photosmart 3210 (basically, a consumer version of the same printer). All my boxen talk directly to the printer. That is, I don't have any system dedicated as a printer server. I've found that HP's opensource drivers as packaged for Suse (10.0, 10.1) work quite well for both printing and scanning. I will need to review my config at home tonight to provide some specific recommendations. For example, I know I had to uncomment a section of the SANE config to get scanning working on any system in which I wished to scan. For printing, I just treat it like any old HP jetdirect and follow the CUPS configuration wizard to set it up. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Randy Clarksean > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:26 PM > To: tclug > Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. > > First .. thanks for the KVM emails this past week. You > helped me narrow in on some hardware that will work for what I need. > > I will be moving my office shortly and I want to "clean up" a > number of messy network issues that have created themselves > over time ... laziness or hurrying to get something to work > ... I need to streamline some things. > > One is a print and file server. > > Concern: I want to be able to run my HP OfficeJet 6310xi > All-in-One via the printer server ... and ... have the > ability to scan documents, etc. > to a computer, whether it be a Linux or Windows box. It is a > USB connection ... or can be connected via the network itself > (I believe that its capabilities are limited for Linux when > hooked up on the network connection). > > Hooking it straight to a Linux box ... appears to have > limited some of its capabilities already. The scanning of > documents is flakey ... and sometimes does not work at all. > > Anyone have any experience to share with me about print > servers and the ability to actually take full advantage of > all features from one of these all in ones? Maybe I am doing > something wrong ... fancy that :-) > > Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From seehow at iphouse.com Thu Sep 7 17:04:25 2006 From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:04:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Text strings between processes Message-ID: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ok, I'm working with bash. How do I send a text string between two jobs. A book tells me something about named pipes, and I've checked out the man page for mknod, but both the book and the man page tell me little about what it's all about. Anyone here do this before? From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Sep 7 17:13:54 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:13:54 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. Message-ID: <090720062213.16945.450099A20007E3970000423122028887440B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> I know that the HP OfficeJet 7210 can scan docs via a web page. It has it's own built in NIC and print server. All you do is point a browser at the assigned IP address and one of of the options on the web page is to scan a document and then it kicks back a JPEG to the browser of the scan. (Seriously considering one of them for my house, we have one at work and it is a very nice unit.) Printing on Linux would be too simple, just point CUPS at the assigned IP address and tell it the proper driver, which I'm sure HP would have considering their support of Linux drivers for their printers. -- ---- ------ Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Randy Clarksean > First .. thanks for the KVM emails this past week. You helped me narrow > in on some hardware that will work for what I need. > > I will be moving my office shortly and I want to "clean up" a number of > messy network issues that have created themselves over time ... laziness > or hurrying to get something to work ... I need to streamline some > things. > > One is a print and file server. > > Concern: I want to be able to run my HP OfficeJet 6310xi All-in-One via > the printer server ... and ... have the ability to scan documents, etc. > to a computer, whether it be a Linux or Windows box. It is a USB > connection ... or can be connected via the network itself (I believe > that its capabilities are limited for Linux when hooked up on the > network connection). > > Hooking it straight to a Linux box ... appears to have limited some of > its capabilities already. The scanning of documents is flakey ... and > sometimes does not work at all. > > Anyone have any experience to share with me about print servers and the > ability to actually take full advantage of all features from one of > these all in ones? Maybe I am doing something wrong ... fancy that :-) > > Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Thu Sep 7 17:17:54 2006 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:17:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Text strings between processes In-Reply-To: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060907221754.7A1106F96@skuld.wookimus.net> Christopher Howard wrote: > Ok, I'm working with bash. How do I send a text string between two > jobs. A book tells me something about named pipes, and I've checked > out the man page for mknod, but both the book and the man page tell > me little about what it's all about. Anyone here do this before? Are you talking about something as simple as: command1 | command2 Or are you trying to do something more elaborate, such as setting up some sort of producer/consumer model. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From florin at iucha.net Thu Sep 7 17:47:50 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:47:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Text strings between processes In-Reply-To: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060907224750.GK5040@iucha.net> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 05:04:25PM -0500, Christopher Howard wrote: > Ok, I'm working with bash. How do I send a text string between two > jobs. A book tells me something about named pipes, and I've checked out > the man page for mknod, but both the book and the man page tell me > little about what it's all about. Anyone here do this before? Try this: open a terminal $ cd /tmp $ mkfifo baz $ ls -l baz prw-rw-r-- 1 user group 0 Sep 7 17:46 baz $ cat baz now the terminal is blocked, waiting from input open a second terminal $ echo foo > /tmp/baz now you will see "foo" in the first terminal and both commands will complete If you need to do it between two programs/jobs, just open(2) /tmp/baz for reading in job #1 and for writing in job #2 and write(2) away. Cheers, florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060907/03101fc6/attachment-0001.pgp From josh at tcbug.org Thu Sep 7 16:02:27 2006 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:02:27 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Using 2 different mail servers for 1 domain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200609072102.27267.josh@tcbug.org> On Thursday 07 September 2006 19:48, Sean Waite wrote: > I have in the past used differing mail servers with different > domains, i.e. dm1.net to Exchange and dm1.com to Imap. Now I have a > question about having mail sent through a gateway to one domain to > be sent to two different mail servers. Then user could either use > Imap, mDaemon, etc. as well as Exchange. For example at the office > it would be Exchange, and remotely it would be another server. > Important to note this would not be in any time a load balancing or > failover situation. Especially failover, as that would simply not > work, and load balancing servers usually require the secondary to > be of the same type (i.e. Domino/Exchange). > > > The reason why is long and idiotic, so I wont bore you with those > details. > > > Sean Waite > You could do this pretty trivially using Postfix for the mail gateway. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From tclug at lizakowski.com Thu Sep 7 21:14:13 2006 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:14:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Text strings between processes In-Reply-To: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157666665.1146.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200609072114.13935.tclug@lizakowski.com> Try mkfifo: window1\> mkfifo mypipe window1\> cat > mypipe window2\> cat mypipe now, type something in window 1, and it appears in window 2. Jeremy On Thursday 07 September 2006 5:04 pm, Christopher Howard wrote: > Ok, I'm working with bash. How do I send a text string between two > jobs. A book tells me something about named pipes, and I've checked out > the man page for mknod, but both the book and the man page tell me > little about what it's all about. Anyone here do this before? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rclark at lakesplus.com Fri Sep 8 06:05:43 2006 From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 06:05:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1157713543.18765.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks for all the good comments from all on the list. Printing - works fine. I use CUPS and it goes along without a problem. I use the standard HP driver that works for tons of other systems. Scanning *pulls hair out* Part of the time xsane will find the device ... for awhile it was fine and would scan one page ... but never would it scan a multipage document, which is what I REALLY want to be able to do with it. Faxing I can do manually and never be bothered by it ... scanning needs to work flawlessly in order to save me time as part of my job. I have ended up putting it back onto a Windows box and just using the standard HP interface - works flawlessly. Any suggestions on the configuration setup for xsane would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Randy On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 15:32 -0500, Bruce Broecker wrote: > I'm running an HP Photosmart 3210 (basically, a consumer version of the > same printer). All my boxen talk directly to the printer. That is, I > don't have any system dedicated as a printer server. > > I've found that HP's opensource drivers as packaged for Suse (10.0, > 10.1) work quite well for both printing and scanning. I will need to > review my config at home tonight to provide some specific > recommendations. For example, I know I had to uncomment a section of the > SANE config to get scanning working on any system in which I wished to > scan. > > For printing, I just treat it like any old HP jetdirect and follow the > CUPS configuration wizard to set it up. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Randy Clarksean > > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:26 PM > > To: tclug > > Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. > > > > First .. thanks for the KVM emails this past week. You > > helped me narrow in on some hardware that will work for what I need. > > > > I will be moving my office shortly and I want to "clean up" a > > number of messy network issues that have created themselves > > over time ... laziness or hurrying to get something to work > > ... I need to streamline some things. > > > > One is a print and file server. > > > > Concern: I want to be able to run my HP OfficeJet 6310xi > > All-in-One via the printer server ... and ... have the > > ability to scan documents, etc. > > to a computer, whether it be a Linux or Windows box. It is a > > USB connection ... or can be connected via the network itself > > (I believe that its capabilities are limited for Linux when > > hooked up on the network connection). > > > > Hooking it straight to a Linux box ... appears to have > > limited some of its capabilities already. The scanning of > > documents is flakey ... and sometimes does not work at all. > > > > Anyone have any experience to share with me about print > > servers and the ability to actually take full advantage of > > all features from one of these all in ones? Maybe I am doing > > something wrong ... fancy that :-) > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From comradex at safetyfork.net Fri Sep 8 12:50:28 2006 From: comradex at safetyfork.net (Matthew Xavier) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:50:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! In-Reply-To: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> References: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> Message-ID: <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> I have the server Jim gave away last week. Unfortunately, I can't use it. It's set up for 220VAC input?which I don't have available? and according to the public documentation on Unisys's website, to switch it to 110VAC, a jumper has to be moved. Of course, they don't publish the location of the jumper, and it's not labeled anywhere in the system I could find. Anyway, I don't have space for it if I'm not using it, so if you can pick it up from my apartment in Eden Prairie, it's yours. It's about 19" wide by 29" deep and 12" high and it weighs 120lbs, so be warned. I'm going to keep the HP array controller unless the person who takes the server wants the external storage array as well. Matthew Xavier On Sep 2, 2006, at 2:46 AM, Jim Streit wrote: > Sorry, > All of the items have been spoken for. > Thanks > Jim > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of Jim Streit > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:17 PM > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! > > Hello, > I'm getting my house ready to sell and I have 3 items that I need > to get out of my house fast! ... so I'm offering them for free! > They need to be out of the house this weekend. > > Item #1. Proxima Desktop Projector. Model DP5100a This works, > and comes with the factory carry case. To find out all of the > spec's please visit this site: > http://www.cinenow-trailers.com/p/proxima_5100_man49_us.pdf > > Item #2. Unisys e- at ction Enterprise Server. Type SRPM8 esr208152- > Z. (I think its an es7000) This machine currently has 4 Intel 700 > MHz Xeon processors and 4 GB of ram. The machine is capable of > holding 8 Processors and 16 GB of ram. It has 2 18 GB scsi drives > internal. Redhat ver 9 is currently loaded. Comes with an HP > array controller. 3 hot swap power adaptors. This server is 7U > high and about 2' deep. (A BIG BOX) > http://www.unisys.com/products/enterprise__servers/ > high_d_end__servers/models/es7000_s_one__servers.htm > > Item #3. HP storage array. Model D3604B Can hold 6 drives and 2, > 1/2 heigth bays. Currently has 5, 9GB drives and dual power > supplies. (I had it connected to the Unisys server, but I need to > keep the scsi cable that connects the 2 devices. > https://www.ad.no/hp/english/psge/d3604b.htm > Looks like this: > > I would offer to help make deliverys, but I'm too busy getting > other projects done this weekend. You must pick them up, any time > this weekend. > > If you have questions, feel free to call. > Thanks > Jim Streit > 612-965-4700 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060908/7c09c68c/attachment.htm From comradex at safetyfork.net Fri Sep 8 13:48:34 2006 From: comradex at safetyfork.net (Matthew Xavier) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:48:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! In-Reply-To: <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> References: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> Message-ID: <1BCF4346-5E6D-4CD9-9FFB-168B77C17FF2@safetyfork.net> It's all spoken for again. Matthew Xavier On Sep 8, 2006, at 12:50 PM, Matthew Xavier wrote: > I have the server Jim gave away last week. Unfortunately, I can't > use it. It's set up for 220VAC input?which I don't have available? > and according to the public documentation on Unisys's website, to > switch it to 110VAC, a jumper has to be moved. Of course, they > don't publish the location of the jumper, and it's not labeled > anywhere in the system I could find. > > Anyway, I don't have space for it if I'm not using it, so if you > can pick it up from my apartment in Eden Prairie, it's yours. It's > about 19" wide by 29" deep and 12" high and it weighs 120lbs, so be > warned. I'm going to keep the HP array controller unless the > person who takes the server wants the external storage array as well. > > Matthew Xavier > > On Sep 2, 2006, at 2:46 AM, Jim Streit wrote: > >> Sorry, >> All of the items have been spoken for. >> Thanks >> Jim >> >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list- >> bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jim Streit >> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:17 PM >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! >> >> Hello, >> I'm getting my house ready to sell and I have 3 items that I need >> to get out of my house fast! ... so I'm offering them for free! >> They need to be out of the house this weekend. >> >> Item #1. Proxima Desktop Projector. Model DP5100a This works, >> and comes with the factory carry case. To find out all of the >> spec's please visit this site: >> http://www.cinenow-trailers.com/p/proxima_5100_man49_us.pdf >> >> Item #2. Unisys e- at ction Enterprise Server. Type SRPM8 >> esr208152-Z. (I think its an es7000) This machine currently has 4 >> Intel 700 MHz Xeon processors and 4 GB of ram. The machine is >> capable of holding 8 Processors and 16 GB of ram. It has 2 18 GB >> scsi drives internal. Redhat ver 9 is currently loaded. Comes >> with an HP array controller. 3 hot swap power adaptors. This >> server is 7U high and about 2' deep. (A BIG BOX) >> http://www.unisys.com/products/enterprise__servers/ >> high_d_end__servers/models/es7000_s_one__servers.htm >> >> Item #3. HP storage array. Model D3604B Can hold 6 drives and >> 2, 1/2 heigth bays. Currently has 5, 9GB drives and dual power >> supplies. (I had it connected to the Unisys server, but I need to >> keep the scsi cable that connects the 2 devices. >> https://www.ad.no/hp/english/psge/d3604b.htm >> Looks like this: >> >> I would offer to help make deliverys, but I'm too busy getting >> other projects done this weekend. You must pick them up, any time >> this weekend. >> >> If you have questions, feel free to call. >> Thanks >> Jim Streit >> 612-965-4700 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060908/522ee432/attachment.htm From chewie at wookimus.net Fri Sep 8 14:52:08 2006 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:52:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! In-Reply-To: <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> References: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> Message-ID: <20060908195208.B4608335B@skuld.wookimus.net> Matthew Xavier wrote: > I have the server Jim gave away last week. Unfortunately, I can't > use it. It's set up for 220VAC input which I don't have available > and according to the public documentation on Unisys's website, to > switch it to 110VAC, a jumper has to be moved. Of course, they > don't publish the location of the jumper, and it's not labeled > anywhere in the system I could find. Typically, there's a little red switch on the power supply just below the outlet that you flip from one side to the other. Most power supplies support both 120 and 220. > Anyway, I don't have space for it if I'm not using it, so if you can > pick it up from my apartment in Eden Prairie, it's yours. It's > about 19" wide by 29" deep and 12" high and it weighs 120lbs, so be > warned. I'm going to keep the HP array controller unless the person > who takes the server wants the external storage array as well. Cool. Have fun, whomever gets it. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From comradex at safetyfork.net Fri Sep 8 15:06:42 2006 From: comradex at safetyfork.net (Matthew Xavier) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:06:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! In-Reply-To: <20060908195208.B4608335B@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> <20060908195208.B4608335B@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <110993B0-1562-42D3-AD0B-E4FCA498B62B@safetyfork.net> On Sep 8, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Chad Walstrom wrote: > Matthew Xavier wrote: >> I have the server Jim gave away last week. Unfortunately, I can't >> use it. It's set up for 220VAC input which I don't have available >> and according to the public documentation on Unisys's website, to >> switch it to 110VAC, a jumper has to be moved. Of course, they >> don't publish the location of the jumper, and it's not labeled >> anywhere in the system I could find. > > Typically, there's a little red switch on the power supply just below > the outlet that you flip from one side to the other. Most power > supplies support both 120 and 220. The power supplies themselves are autoranging and exhibit no switches of any kind. In fact, when I plugged them in, they indicated they were ready. From the behavior I observed and from reading the public documentation, my impression is that the server's power management checks the power supplies' status before allowing the machine to turn on, and a jumper has to be set to tell it to expect a 100-130V input reading rather than a 200-240V reading. > >> Anyway, I don't have space for it if I'm not using it, so if you can >> pick it up from my apartment in Eden Prairie, it's yours. It's >> about 19" wide by 29" deep and 12" high and it weighs 120lbs, so be >> warned. I'm going to keep the HP array controller unless the person >> who takes the server wants the external storage array as well. > > Cool. Have fun, whomever gets it. > -- > Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ > assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ > From florin at iucha.net Fri Sep 8 15:23:35 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:23:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! In-Reply-To: <110993B0-1562-42D3-AD0B-E4FCA498B62B@safetyfork.net> References: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> <20060908195208.B4608335B@skuld.wookimus.net> <110993B0-1562-42D3-AD0B-E4FCA498B62B@safetyfork.net> Message-ID: <20060908202334.GA15437@iucha.net> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 03:06:42PM -0500, Matthew Xavier wrote: > > Typically, there's a little red switch on the power supply just below > > the outlet that you flip from one side to the other. Most power > > supplies support both 120 and 220. > > The power supplies themselves are autoranging and exhibit no switches > of any kind. In fact, when I plugged them in, they indicated they > were ready. From the behavior I observed and from reading the public > documentation, my impression is that the server's power management > checks the power supplies' status before allowing the machine to turn > on, and a jumper has to be set to tell it to expect a 100-130V input > reading rather than a 200-240V reading. Wow! Do they have GUI driven fuses as well? Oh sir, it seems that you have a short in the power supply. Do you want me to burst in flames? [Yes] [No] >>Choose other component<< That "server power management" circuit or software is drawing power from the power supply, right? At that point it is quite pointless to inquire if you get the right voltage, isn't it? This seems to be a computer designed by programmers... florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060908/6a170bad/attachment.pgp From bhartm at visi.com Fri Sep 8 16:21:35 2006 From: bhartm at visi.com (Bob Hartmann) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:21:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cool stuff for free! In-Reply-To: <20060908202334.GA15437@iucha.net> References: <20060902074931.61A7517F452@iago.safetyfork.net> <2F396D19-625E-4E81-93E8-DD3543AD48D4@safetyfork.net> <20060908195208.B4608335B@skuld.wookimus.net> <110993B0-1562-42D3-AD0B-E4FCA498B62B@safetyfork.net> <20060908202334.GA15437@iucha.net> Message-ID: <4501DEDF.9010508@visi.com> Holy mole, do mobo's have batteries? >Wow! Do they have GUI driven fuses as well? > > > From john.meier at gmail.com Fri Sep 8 16:29:52 2006 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 16:29:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. In-Reply-To: <1157653589.18765.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157653589.18765.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <65293fcc0609081429x32474e78ufdc99e6944e2fc16@mail.gmail.com> On 9/7/06, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > > Hooking it straight to a Linux box ... appears to have limited some of > its capabilities already. The scanning of documents is flakey ... and > sometimes does not work at all. > > Anyone have any experience to share with me about print servers and the > ability to actually take full advantage of all features from one of > these all in ones? Maybe I am doing something wrong ... fancy that :-) I have a psc 2210 all in one from HP and use th HPOJ dirver and xsane for scanning - works great. I used the following to set it up: http://gentoo-wiki.com/index.php?title=HPOJ_and_CUPS&printable=yes Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060908/d35e55a9/attachment.htm From dalan at visi.com Fri Sep 8 19:09:37 2006 From: dalan at visi.com (Don) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:09:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Equivalent to YAST In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0609081429x32474e78ufdc99e6944e2fc16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know the a equivalent to YAST in Fedora Core 5? Thanks Don S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060908/c1430ad4/attachment.htm From rhavenn at rhavenn.net Fri Sep 8 22:26:27 2006 From: rhavenn at rhavenn.net (Henrik Hudson) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 22:26:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Equivalent to YAST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200609082226.27599.rhavenn@rhavenn.net> On Friday 08 September 2006 19:09, "Don" sent a missive stating: > Does anyone know the a equivalent to YAST in Fedora Core 5? > Yum I think. Henrik -- Henrik Hudson rhavenn at rhavenn.net ------------------------------ "There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't..." From thecubic at thecubic.net Fri Sep 8 23:05:38 2006 From: thecubic at thecubic.net (David Carlson) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 23:05:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Equivalent to YAST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4121.163.231.6.87.1157774738.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net> 'yum' for installing applications ('pirut' GUI) system-config-* for everything else. -dave On Fri, September 8, 2006 7:09 pm, Don wrote: > > > Does anyone know the a equivalent to YAST in Fedora Core 5? > > Thanks > Don S > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David Carlson thecubic at thecubic.net From jack at jacku.com Fri Sep 8 23:09:32 2006 From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 23:09:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Equivalent to YAST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200609082309.32399.jack@jacku.com> On Friday 08 September 2006 7:09 pm, Don wrote: > Does anyone know the a equivalent to YAST in Fedora Core 5? > > Thanks > Don S Don, From what I remember using Fedora Core 4 last fall there is no single equivalent to YaST. Depending on what you are trying to do there are different tools for software management (that's where YUM comes in I think) and configuration. (These were under the system menu in the GUI if I remember correctly.) So if you can be more specific with the task you are trying to perform hopefully one of the Fedora experts on the list can help. Jack Local SUSE bigot -- Jack Ungerleider jack at jacku.com http://www.jacku.com From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Sep 9 15:08:24 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 15:08:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609092008.k89K8OM11086@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: P3 Computers for Sale 2 Dell Mini Towers - 600 & 667mhz P3s 196mg Memory, NIC, CD, Floppy, Sound, Etc. 600 has 7.5gb HD, 667 has 20gb HD. $20 each. Micron Mid Tower 850mhz P3, 256mg Memory 30gb HD, NIC, CDRW, ZIP, Sound, Etc. $30 Pick-up in Apple Valley. Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Sat Sep 9 19:41:26 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:41:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609100041.k8A0fQR15979@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: 15in HP CRT Nice 15 inch HP CRT monitor. Manufactured March 2000. Probably has less than 100 hours of use. $10 OBO Pick-up in Apple Valley Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From radke at winternet.com Mon Sep 11 08:06:55 2006 From: radke at winternet.com (Joshua Radke) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:06:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Equivalent to YAST In-Reply-To: <200609082309.32399.jack@jacku.com> References: <200609082309.32399.jack@jacku.com> Message-ID: For some reason, I've recently embedded myself into FC5. I'm unfamiliar with what all YAST does, but I can heartily recommend "Fedora Core 5 Linux Installation Notes" at http://stanton-finley.net/fedora_core_5_installation_notes.html for a lot of good 'getting started' type of tips, including the usage of yumex (a good GUI front end/introduction to yum), and repository information. There's a lot of other miscellenous setup information there as well. Josh >> Does anyone know the a equivalent to YAST in Fedora Core 5? >> >> Thanks >> Don S > > Don, > > From what I remember using Fedora Core 4 last fall there is no single > equivalent to YaST. Depending on what you are trying to do there are > different tools for software management (that's where YUM comes in I > think) > and configuration. (These were under the system menu in the GUI if I > remember > correctly.) So if you can be more specific with the task you are trying > to > perform hopefully one of the Fedora experts on the list can help. > > Jack > Local SUSE bigot From kevin.lombardo at gmail.com Mon Sep 11 09:02:12 2006 From: kevin.lombardo at gmail.com (Kevin Lombardo) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:02:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] postfix relay Message-ID: Hello- I have a postfix server up and running, and currently it accepts mail for domainA and domainB and delivers locally. I am not using virtual domains, I have mydestination = domainA, domainB. I would like to change the setup so that mail for domainA gets delivered locally, but mail for domainB is forwarded to another mail server, or even forwarded to the relayhost. Is this possible? Thanks! From slushpupie at gmail.com Mon Sep 11 09:14:25 2006 From: slushpupie at gmail.com ( ) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:14:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] postfix relay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/11/06, Kevin Lombardo wrote: > Hello- > > I have a postfix server up and running, and currently it accepts mail > for domainA and domainB and delivers locally. I am not using virtual > domains, I have mydestination = domainA, domainB. > > I would like to change the setup so that mail for domainA gets > delivered locally, but mail for domainB is forwarded to another mail > server, or even forwarded to the relayhost. > > Is this possible? > Yes, and even somewhat easy. Just put a line like this in your transport file: domainB :[other.mail.server] Then run postmap on the file (make sure you have transport_maps defined as a hash table with that file). -- Jay Kline http://www.slushpupie.com/ From klinej at msoe.edu Mon Sep 11 09:16:49 2006 From: klinej at msoe.edu (Jonathan Kline) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:16:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] postfix relay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200609110916.50942.klinej@msoe.edu> Use Transport Maps to set the finaldestination for domainB. You'll need to probably add a line to /etc/postfix/main.conf to tell it you will be using berkely DB Transportmaps (usually /etc/postfix/transport) Then in /etc/postfix/transport add the line FQDN.DOMAINB.COM [ip.of.said.destination] Note the the brackets they force postfix to not look up the mx handler for the domain. After adding the domains to /etc/postfix/transport you'll need to run postmap /etc/postfix/transport and reload postfix. ~J On Monday 11 September 2006 09:02, Kevin Lombardo wrote: > Hello- > > I have a postfix server up and running, and currently it accepts mail > for domainA and domainB and delivers locally. I am not using virtual > domains, I have mydestination = domainA, domainB. > > I would like to change the setup so that mail for domainA gets > delivered locally, but mail for domainB is forwarded to another mail > server, or even forwarded to the relayhost. > > Is this possible? > > Thanks! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From john.meier at gmail.com Mon Sep 11 15:17:13 2006 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:17:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest DSL ActionTec modem replacement Message-ID: <65293fcc0609111317i1cd1d8b9i7f52de5b40e9ba42@mail.gmail.com> Helping out a friend who has DSL though qwest at his small office (one of the business offerings - not residential). We're trying to achieve 3 things: 1) get something more stable than the actiontec modem (fried a couple in the last year or so, dropped connections etc..). 2) wireless and vpn access 3) off site backups of one of the LAN computers (windows box which acts as a "fileserver" as well as a day-to-day workstation) I don't have all the details of his connection - and I've never had a DSL connection :) - just cable modem... Anyway, it seems Qwest's modem options are an actiontec 701 and a Qwest 2wire 2700HG - the latter having wireless built in. I suggested trying out the 2wire modem - but he's kinda sick of qwest and the "crappy equipment" he's been getting. At this point we're looking for a modem, firewall, wireless and vpn endpoint all-in-one unit that we can use with Qwest DSL - we'll be using linux, OSX and windows over the VPN. Any suggestions? Money's not a problem for this project (within reason) as long as the stuff works! He doesn't like keeping any computers up and running at full power over night, so I'm hoping for an all-in-one unit to do the firewall, modem and VPN . I'll be using linux, VPN and Wake on Lan to backup the windows "file server". He'll be using OSX and VPN and Wake on LAN for remote access - sure hope wake on lan works like I've been reading :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060911/e7202ec2/attachment.htm From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Mon Sep 11 15:27:04 2006 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:27:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest DSL ActionTec modem replacement In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0609111317i1cd1d8b9i7f52de5b40e9ba42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: We're having real good luck with the Netscreen 5GT ADSL (from Juniper). It has a DSL modem built in and is a full statefull firewall and IPSec VPN. It can also do virus scan and basic IDS with addon licenses. Lastly, there are versions with and without wireless, if he is so inclined. Qwest WILL NOT support the installation, but I was able to get mine up and running with minimal input from VISI (my ISP of choice). > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of John Meier > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:17 PM > To: tclug > Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest DSL ActionTec modem replacement > > Helping out a friend who has DSL though qwest at his small > office (one of the business offerings - not residential). > > We're trying to achieve 3 things: > > 1) get something more stable than the actiontec modem (fried > a couple in the last year or so, dropped connections etc..). > 2) wireless and vpn access > 3) off site backups of one of the LAN computers (windows box > which acts as a "fileserver" as well as a day-to-day workstation) > > I don't have all the details of his connection - and I've > never had a DSL connection :) - just cable modem... Anyway, > it seems Qwest's modem options are an actiontec 701 and a > Qwest 2wire 2700HG - the latter having wireless built in. I > suggested trying out the 2wire modem - but he's kinda sick of > qwest and the "crappy equipment" he's been getting. > > At this point we're looking for a modem, firewall, wireless > and vpn endpoint all-in-one unit that we can use with Qwest > DSL - we'll be using linux, OSX and windows over the VPN. > > Any suggestions? > > Money's not a problem for this project (within reason) as > long as the stuff works! > > He doesn't like keeping any computers up and running at full > power over night, so I'm hoping for an all-in-one unit to do > the firewall, modem and VPN . I'll be using linux, VPN and > Wake on Lan to backup the windows "file server". He'll be > using OSX and VPN and Wake on LAN for remote access - sure > hope wake on lan works like I've been reading :) > > > > > > > > From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Mon Sep 11 15:44:56 2006 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:44:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Print Server / Firewall, Etc. In-Reply-To: <1157713543.18765.89.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Well, like I said, scanning works well for me, but I don't use xsane. I'm using kooka for my frontend. All I had to do was install the hplip and hplip-hpijs packages (again, this is on OpenSuSE 10.1). Then, I made sure that the hpaio entry in /etc/sane.d/dll.conf was uncommented and now kooka detects the scanner automagically across the local network. > -----Original Message----- > > Thanks for all the good comments from all on the list. > > Printing - works fine. I use CUPS and it goes along without > a problem. > I use the standard HP driver that works for tons of other systems. > > Scanning *pulls hair out* Part of the time xsane will find > the device ... for awhile it was fine and would scan one page > ... but never would it scan a multipage document, which is > what I REALLY want to be able to do with it. Faxing I can do > manually and never be bothered by it ... scanning needs to > work flawlessly in order to save me time as part of my job. > > I have ended up putting it back onto a Windows box and just > using the standard HP interface - works flawlessly. > > Any suggestions on the configuration setup for xsane would be > greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > Randy > > From adam at askewview.net Mon Sep 11 17:36:12 2006 From: adam at askewview.net (Adam) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:36:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest DSL ActionTec modem replacement In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0609111317i1cd1d8b9i7f52de5b40e9ba42@mail.gmail.com> References: <65293fcc0609111317i1cd1d8b9i7f52de5b40e9ba42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4505E4DC.2080803@askewview.net> John, I've been running an old qwest Cisco 678 for a few years now that I got from ebay and it has served my needs quite well. Its been EOL for quite some time now. Cisco's new version is the 800 series. 857 and 877. I know a few people running the 875 and have really liked it. -Adam John Meier wrote: > Helping out a friend who has DSL though qwest at his small office (one > of the business offerings - not residential). > > We're trying to achieve 3 things: > > 1) get something more stable than the actiontec modem (fried a couple > in the last year or so, dropped connections etc..). > 2) wireless and vpn access > 3) off site backups of one of the LAN computers (windows box which > acts as a "fileserver" as well as a day-to-day workstation) > > I don't have all the details of his connection - and I've never had a > DSL connection :) - just cable modem... Anyway, it seems Qwest's > modem options are an actiontec 701 and a Qwest 2wire 2700HG - the > latter having wireless built in. I suggested trying out the 2wire > modem - but he's kinda sick of qwest and the "crappy equipment" he's > been getting. > > At this point we're looking for a modem, firewall, wireless and vpn > endpoint all-in-one unit that we can use with Qwest DSL - we'll be > using linux, OSX and windows over the VPN. > > Any suggestions? > > Money's not a problem for this project (within reason) as long as the > stuff works! > > He doesn't like keeping any computers up and running at full power > over night, so I'm hoping for an all-in-one unit to do the firewall, > modem and VPN . I'll be using linux, VPN and Wake on Lan to backup > the windows "file server". He'll be using OSX and VPN and Wake on LAN > for remote access - sure hope wake on lan works like I've been > reading :) > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Sep 11 23:03:51 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:03:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] postfix relay In-Reply-To: <30029588.1157985798622.JavaMail.root@sniper34> References: <30029588.1157985798622.JavaMail.root@sniper34> Message-ID: <200609112303.51831.jus@krytosvirus.com> You'll probably also want to remove domainB from $mydestination too. On Monday 11 September 2006 09:16, Jonathan Kline wrote: > Use Transport Maps to set the finaldestination for domainB. > > You'll need to probably add a line to /etc/postfix/main.conf to tell it you > will be using berkely DB Transportmaps (usually /etc/postfix/transport) > > Then in /etc/postfix/transport add the line > FQDN.DOMAINB.COM [ip.of.said.destination] > > > Note the the brackets they force postfix to not look up the mx handler for > the domain. > > After adding the domains to /etc/postfix/transport you'll need to run > postmap /etc/postfix/transport and reload postfix. > > ~J > > On Monday 11 September 2006 09:02, Kevin Lombardo wrote: > > Hello- > > > > I have a postfix server up and running, and currently it accepts mail > > for domainA and domainB and delivers locally. I am not using virtual > > domains, I have mydestination = domainA, domainB. > > > > I would like to change the setup so that mail for domainA gets > > delivered locally, but mail for domainB is forwarded to another mail > > server, or even forwarded to the relayhost. > > > > Is this possible? > > > > Thanks! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Sep 11 23:11:24 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:11:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest DSL ActionTec modem replacement In-Reply-To: <19896375.1158014420985.JavaMail.root@sniper12> References: <65293fcc0609111317i1cd1d8b9i7f52de5b40e9ba42@mail.gmail.com> <19896375.1158014420985.JavaMail.root@sniper12> Message-ID: <200609112311.24683.jus@krytosvirus.com> The Cisco 678 is an awesome choice for plain old DSL connectivity. It has very limited firewalling capabilities and no VPN capabilities. You could then use a second device running $OS_OF_CHOICE for your firewall/VPN needs. I use and support (at US Internet, yes the Minneapolis wifi company) and the Actiontecs have time and again been a poor excuse for a DSL router. The Cisco 678 is always a dream to use/support. As mentioned, you can no longer get new ones from Cisco but there are lots of places selling them. I have two for example, in case one dies. Can also check here for a local seller at http://www.cisco678.com There is of course other PPPoA capable DSL equipment but I don't have much experience with them. On Monday 11 September 2006 17:36, Adam wrote: > John, > I've been running an old qwest Cisco 678 for a few years now that I got > from ebay and it has served my needs quite well. Its been EOL for quite > some time now. Cisco's new version is the 800 series. 857 and 877. I > know a few people running the 875 and have really liked it. > > -Adam > > John Meier wrote: > > Helping out a friend who has DSL though qwest at his small office (one > > of the business offerings - not residential). > > > > We're trying to achieve 3 things: > > > > 1) get something more stable than the actiontec modem (fried a couple > > in the last year or so, dropped connections etc..). > > 2) wireless and vpn access > > 3) off site backups of one of the LAN computers (windows box which > > acts as a "fileserver" as well as a day-to-day workstation) > > > > I don't have all the details of his connection - and I've never had a > > DSL connection :) - just cable modem... Anyway, it seems Qwest's > > modem options are an actiontec 701 and a Qwest 2wire 2700HG - the > > latter having wireless built in. I suggested trying out the 2wire > > modem - but he's kinda sick of qwest and the "crappy equipment" he's > > been getting. > > > > At this point we're looking for a modem, firewall, wireless and vpn > > endpoint all-in-one unit that we can use with Qwest DSL - we'll be > > using linux, OSX and windows over the VPN. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Money's not a problem for this project (within reason) as long as the > > stuff works! > > > > He doesn't like keeping any computers up and running at full power > > over night, so I'm hoping for an all-in-one unit to do the firewall, > > modem and VPN . I'll be using linux, VPN and Wake on Lan to backup > > the windows "file server". He'll be using OSX and VPN and Wake on LAN > > for remote access - sure hope wake on lan works like I've been > > reading :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From c.r.troyer at usfamily.net Tue Sep 12 09:15:32 2006 From: c.r.troyer at usfamily.net (Cyprian Troyer) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:15:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB mass Storage mknod, /etc/fstab.... Message-ID: <4506C104.3050409@usfamily.net> My current hurdle in getting my Slackware linux installation is that I'm too dense to figure out all the details of mounting the filesystem of a USB mass storage device (memory card or multi-card reader) to my filesytem. I understand from the man pages of mknod and fstab that in order for the mount to be automatic, there must be an entry in /etc/fstab with all the appropriate switches and options. I also understand that mknod is the recommended way to update /etc/fstab. What I am missing is a coherent description of how the whole process should proceed. I know that my USB bus is working, and that the devices are being detected, since the lsusb command returns information on the bus and the devices as I plug and unplug them. Also, lsmod is showing that the appropriate modules are being called by kmod. Am I correct in thinking that the first argument of mknod should be an arbitrary name for the device, such as /dev/cdrom or dev/hda, which is up to me to choose? (Generally, not specifically for USB.) Or do the names of the block special device nodes have to conform to the list in /usr/src/Documentation/devices.txt? In the linux-usb.org info I read that USB storage is treated as a scsi drive, and therefore usb memory cards are configured as /sda1, /sda2... This is exactly what I am seeing with my ubuntu live CD installs, but they are using something different in the etc/fstab. According to my understanding of /usr/src/Documentation/devices.txt, the major and minor numbers for /sda1, /sda2 should be 8 and 0. But this doesn't work, probably because I am not getting the other arguments to mknod correct. Does the mount point (directory) referenced by mknod need to exist before the mknod command is called, or does mknod create it? When I tried using an existing directory as the argument for the mount point, mknod returned an error telling me that the directory exists. I think I've just absorbed too much disparate information too quickly lately, and none of it is settling in together. Thanks, Cyprian. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From jonathan.kline at isaidno.net Tue Sep 12 09:37:49 2006 From: jonathan.kline at isaidno.net (Jonathan Kline) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:37:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB mass Storage mknod, /etc/fstab.... In-Reply-To: <4506C104.3050409@usfamily.net> References: <4506C104.3050409@usfamily.net> Message-ID: <200609120937.50121.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> In general, you probably won't need to use mknod, it's used to make device special files if they do not already exist, and chances are that /dev/sd[a-h] [0-9] or so already exist. All you will need to do is mount the devices. After plugging in say a USB memory stick (assume it's the only usb storage device and the only "scsi" device"), at the command line you would use: mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb Where /dev/sda1 is the first partition of the first scsi device (your memory stick here), and /mnt/usb is where in the filesystem you want the device to be mounted. Automout is a bit trickier, but in essence you will need to add a line similar to /etc/fstab: /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb auto defaults 0 0 Then you will need to configure your choice of automount daemons to automatically mount the appropriate usb device when it is made available. This might help you: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Flash-Memory-HOWTO/ Cheers, ~J On Tuesday 12 September 2006 09:15, Cyprian Troyer wrote: > My current hurdle in getting my Slackware linux installation is that I'm > too dense to figure out all the details of mounting the filesystem of a > USB mass storage device (memory card or multi-card reader) to my > filesytem. I understand from the man pages of mknod and fstab that in > order for the mount to be automatic, there must be an entry in > /etc/fstab with all the appropriate switches and options. I also > understand that mknod is the recommended way to update /etc/fstab. What > I am missing is a coherent description of how the whole process should > proceed. > I know that my USB bus is working, and that the devices are being > detected, since the lsusb command returns information on the bus and the > devices as I plug and unplug them. Also, lsmod is showing that the > appropriate modules are being called by kmod. > Am I correct in thinking that the first argument of mknod should be an > arbitrary name for the device, such as /dev/cdrom or dev/hda, which is > up to me to choose? (Generally, not specifically for USB.) Or do the > names of the block special device nodes have to conform to the list in > /usr/src/Documentation/devices.txt? In the linux-usb.org info I read > that USB storage is treated as a scsi drive, and therefore usb memory > cards are configured as /sda1, /sda2... This is exactly what I am > seeing with my ubuntu live CD installs, but they are using something > different in the etc/fstab. According to my understanding of > /usr/src/Documentation/devices.txt, the major and minor numbers for > /sda1, /sda2 should be 8 and 0. But this doesn't work, probably because > I am not getting the other arguments to mknod correct. > Does the mount point (directory) referenced by mknod need to exist > before the mknod command is called, or does mknod create it? When I > tried using an existing directory as the argument for the mount point, > mknod returned an error telling me that the directory exists. > I think I've just absorbed too much disparate information too quickly > lately, and none of it is settling in together. > > Thanks, > Cyprian. > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jonathan Kline From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 11:21:40 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:21:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Can't find appropriate program Message-ID: I know a program like this exists, but I have been googling for it all morning and can't seem to find it. What is does is examine the contents of your CDs, DVDs, etc, and creates a database of sorts of their filesystems. When you need x file, you search for x and it tells you where and on what CD it is on. What is the software name? -jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060912/81ccb461/attachment.htm From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 15:33:55 2006 From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:33:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <20060907093552.3ydo5mfn5vs4o8o4@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> <20060907093552.3ydo5mfn5vs4o8o4@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com> Message-ID: One tip for PS2 KVM's: sometimes you can just unplug-plug the PS2 device from the KVM and the connected box will see it again. That is, unplug the keyboard or mouse from the KVM, not the connection to the destination box Goes against everything I've learned about playing with PS2 devices, but this has worked for two different KVM brands for me so far (Belkin and a Fugi Plus (?)). Hope this helps, Ron On 9/7/06, Josh Welch wrote: > > Quoting Mike Miller : > > > > I guess that is a KVM. Three earlier posts before this one mentioned > KVMs > > that also did not require rebooting. Maybe I don't get this. The whole > > point of the KVM is that you can switch without rebooting. > > > That is the point of a KVM. The reality is that some are more stable > than others, the less stable ones will occasionally "lose" the mouse > leaving you to need to reboot the box on that port in order for it to > "find" the mouse again. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- http://ronspace.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060912/7f971c3e/attachment.htm From strayf at freeshell.org Tue Sep 12 15:52:51 2006 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:52:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Free software prize competition Message-ID: <45071E23.3000603@freeshell.org> Not specifically linux, but folks may be interested in this. The APC Chris Nicol FOSS Prize: "The biennial $4,000 USD prize will be awarded to a person or group doing extraordinary work to make it easy for ordinary computer users to start using free and open source software (FOSS)." http://www.apc.org/english/chrisnicol/ -Steve From srcfoo at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 15:54:01 2006 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:54:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB WiFi Recommendations Message-ID: <579c6fd30609121354v5aa077a2nd0e52cbd7670ccea@mail.gmail.com> I need a USB WiFi adapter for an embedded application. We initially tried a Hawking USB dongle, but that seems to be very unstable and seems to quit working after a little use. Does anyone have any recommendations for USB WiFi adapters that work well with Linux? Preferably, it would also be able to operate in access point mode. We're running CentOS at the moment due to some other compatibility issues that we haven't had time to deal with so it is running an older 2.6.12 kernel. Since we're using CentOS, I'm sure you figured out that this application is not restricted by disk space and we are not restricted to using embedded c libraries such as uclibc so assume that we have standard Linux libraries and utilities. Thanks, Eric From ryan.langseth at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 22:14:31 2006 From: ryan.langseth at gmail.com (Ryan Langseth) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:14:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB WiFi Recommendations In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30609121354v5aa077a2nd0e52cbd7670ccea@mail.gmail.com> References: <579c6fd30609121354v5aa077a2nd0e52cbd7670ccea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Look for something supported by hostap, which is mainly (only) prism hardware. Otherwise check http://www.seattlewireless.net/HardwareComparison If you want it to act as a AP and have decent range I would strongly recommend looking for something that is not USB. Our linux based APs use pcmcia and mini-pci cards. Also check out http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/ scroll down to "Wireless LAN Hardware (surveys and reviews)" ~Ryan On 9/12/06, Eric Peterson wrote: > I need a USB WiFi adapter for an embedded application. We initially > tried a Hawking USB dongle, but that seems to be very unstable and > seems to quit working after a little use. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for USB WiFi adapters that work > well with Linux? Preferably, it would also be able to operate in > access point mode. > > We're running CentOS at the moment due to some other compatibility > issues that we haven't had time to deal with so it is running an older > 2.6.12 kernel. Since we're using CentOS, I'm sure you figured out that > this application is not restricted by disk space and we are not > restricted to using embedded c libraries such as uclibc so assume that > we have standard Linux libraries and utilities. > > Thanks, > Eric -- Ryan Langseth www.invisimax.com ryan.langseth at gmail.com From srcfoo at gmail.com Wed Sep 13 11:00:22 2006 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:00:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB WiFi Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <579c6fd30609121354v5aa077a2nd0e52cbd7670ccea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <579c6fd30609130900i58e88066h75b5dea87eba656c@mail.gmail.com> We did some more testing and found that the problems we were having were not a result of the wireless adapter. The problem was actually with the connection to the USB header on the embedded device. In case anyone is interested, the USB WiFi adapter is a Hawking Technologies HWU54G. You can find Linux drivers for it here: http://zd1211.ath.cx/ We've tested the device on several other machines now and have found it to work very well. Thanks for the tips! -Eric On 9/12/06, Ryan Langseth wrote: > Look for something supported by hostap, which is mainly (only) prism > hardware. Otherwise check http://www.seattlewireless.net/HardwareComparison > If you want it to act as a AP and have decent range I would strongly recommend > looking for something that is not USB. Our linux based APs use pcmcia and > mini-pci cards. > > Also check out http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/ scroll > down to "Wireless LAN Hardware (surveys and reviews)" > > ~Ryan > > On 9/12/06, Eric Peterson wrote: > > I need a USB WiFi adapter for an embedded application. We initially > > tried a Hawking USB dongle, but that seems to be very unstable and > > seems to quit working after a little use. > > > > Does anyone have any recommendations for USB WiFi adapters that work > > well with Linux? Preferably, it would also be able to operate in > > access point mode. > > > > We're running CentOS at the moment due to some other compatibility > > issues that we haven't had time to deal with so it is running an older > > 2.6.12 kernel. Since we're using CentOS, I'm sure you figured out that > > this application is not restricted by disk space and we are not > > restricted to using embedded c libraries such as uclibc so assume that > > we have standard Linux libraries and utilities. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric > > -- > Ryan Langseth > www.invisimax.com > ryan.langseth at gmail.com > From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Wed Sep 13 11:29:40 2006 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (jkey) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:29:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB mass Storage mknod, /etc/fstab.... In-Reply-To: <200609120937.50121.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> References: <4506C104.3050409@usfamily.net> <200609120937.50121.jonathan.kline@isaidno.net> Message-ID: <450831F4.60505@tomobiki.dyndns.org> Jonathan Kline wrote: > In general, you probably won't need to use mknod, it's used to make device > special files if they do not already exist, and chances are that /dev/sd[a-h] > [0-9] or so already exist. All you will need to do is mount the devices. > > After plugging in say a USB memory stick (assume it's the only usb storage > device and the only "scsi" device"), at the command line you would use: > mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb > Where /dev/sda1 is the first partition of the first scsi device (your memory > stick here), and /mnt/usb is where in the filesystem you want the device to > be mounted. > > Automout is a bit trickier, but in essence you will need to add a line similar > to /etc/fstab: > /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb auto defaults 0 0 > > Then you will need to configure your choice of automount daemons to > automatically mount the appropriate usb device when it is made available. > > This might help you: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Flash-Memory-HOWTO/ > > Cheers, > ~J One gotcha that can happen is the usb device might not have any partitions. So you will have to mount the whole device /dev/sda instead of a partition /dev/sda1. I have a couple of mp3 players that have that problem. Joseph From florin at iucha.net Wed Sep 13 15:34:05 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:34:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d6c82530609051340me7aba5au2814e5b07dc0ccf@mail.gmail.com> <20060907093552.3ydo5mfn5vs4o8o4@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com> Message-ID: <20060913203405.GB15829@iucha.net> On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 03:33:55PM -0500, Ron Nelson wrote: > One tip for PS2 KVM's: sometimes you can just unplug-plug the PS2 device > from the KVM and the connected box will see it again. That is, unplug the > keyboard or mouse from the KVM, not the connection to the destination box > > Goes against everything I've learned about playing with PS2 devices, but > this has worked for two different KVM brands for me so far (Belkin and a > Fugi Plus (?)). This is what I'm doing too when mine loses the mouse. It is a Belkin 4-port. florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060913/14e4a9da/attachment.pgp From jus at krytosvirus.com Wed Sep 13 23:53:10 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:53:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Can't find appropriate program In-Reply-To: <4797990.1158078475395.JavaMail.root@sniper50> References: <4797990.1158078475395.JavaMail.root@sniper50> Message-ID: <200609132353.10826.jus@krytosvirus.com> sounds like you want locate Mount each disk as /mnt/disk1, /mnt/disk2, etc. then you can create a custom locate databases for each disk. Then run locate on each database; there are options allow you to specify multiple databases in one search. Or just add new entries to your locate database instead, one disk at a time so you have 1 database with all entries. You could make this database separate from your default system locate database to be tidy. On Tuesday 12 September 2006 11:21, Jordan Peacock wrote: > I know a program like this exists, but I have been googling for it all > morning and can't seem to find it. > > What is does is examine the contents of your CDs, DVDs, etc, and creates a > database of sorts of their filesystems. > > When you need x file, you search for x and it tells you where and on what > CD it is on. > > What is the software name? > > -jordan From dniesen at gmail.com Thu Sep 14 06:10:24 2006 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 06:10:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Can't find appropriate program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47f4d5e70609140410u15dbec4fk14055ccc1c24ce9f@mail.gmail.com> CDCollect seems to do what you want: http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_idC0 I found a lot of software for Windows by searching for "cd catalog software" in Google but not a ton for Linux. This was the only thing that came up. -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060914/dbaa186e/attachment.htm From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com Thu Sep 14 06:50:37 2006 From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 06:50:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Can't find appropriate program In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70609140410u15dbec4fk14055ccc1c24ce9f@mail.gmail.com> References: <47f4d5e70609140410u15dbec4fk14055ccc1c24ce9f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll check into those tonight when I get back from work; the CDCollect seems to be what I was thinking of, but I'll have to give it a go. Many thanks. -jordan On 9/14/06, Donovan Niesen wrote: > > CDCollect seems to do what you want: > > http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_idC0 > > I found a lot of software for Windows by searching for "cd catalog > software" in Google but not a ton for Linux. This was the only thing that > came up. > > -- > Donovan Niesen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060914/44c0572a/attachment.htm From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Sep 14 09:28:30 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:28:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609141428.k8EESU706568@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: 15inch HP CRT Nice 15 inch HP CRT monitor. Manufactured March 2000. Probably has less than 100 hours of use. Small (firewall size) hard drives, ISA sound, etc. Drop me a line. If it's old, I might have it. Free to good home. Pick-up in Apple Valley Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From ai9nl at arrl.net Thu Sep 14 10:46:00 2006 From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:46:00 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Console switcher In-Reply-To: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1157456671.18765.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6a470a5f0609140846ua59f786h5a15296a8fec7b95@mail.gmail.com> hi randy, I'm using a Dlink DKVM4. it works pretty well. it cost only about $35.00 as I recall. (minimal for a kvm switch that actually works.)got it about a year ago. only complaint is that once you have all the cables connected, the thing doesn't like to move much on the desk it seems to get in the way alot. harv washburn, WI On 9/5/06, Randy Clarksean wrote: > > Anyone use a console switcher that will let you swap between 2 or 4 > systems .. mouse ... keyboard ... and monitor ... without having to > reboot all the time? > > I have a switch now ... but the mouse portion of it does not work unless > one reboots the other system ... keyboard and monitor are fine ... so i > just use two mice and it works ... > > trying to find one for a client ... 2-4 systems needed on it > > thanks in advance :-) > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060914/dee618c2/attachment.htm From seehow at iphouse.com Fri Sep 15 21:15:34 2006 From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:15:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bash Scripting error - binary operator expected Message-ID: <1158372934.1338.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ok, the attachted script is what I'm running. I don't understand why I get an error on line 20 in one mode but not the other. Can anyone explain whats up? christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ~/bin/harps harps>roll stuff This command is under construction stuff harps>exit christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ~/bin/harps roll stuff /home/christopher/bin/harps: line 20: [: roll: binary operator expected This command is under construction stuff christopher at seehow:~/bin$ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: harps Type: application/x-shellscript Size: 1152 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060915/0ceeb7cf/attachment.bin From jus at krytosvirus.com Fri Sep 15 22:36:08 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:36:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bash Scripting error - binary operator expected Message-ID: <200609152236.09185.jus@krytosvirus.com> It's expecting just 1 argument to the command but you are putting two in there. Either run as ./harps roll or change if [ -z $@ ] to if [ -z $1 ] This then says check for the first argument to not exist. On Friday 15 September 2006 21:15, Christopher Howard wrote: > Ok, the attachted script is what I'm running. I don't understand why I > get an error on line 20 in one mode but not the other. Can anyone > explain whats up? > > christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ~/bin/harps > harps>roll stuff > This command is under construction > stuff > harps>exit > christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ~/bin/harps roll stuff > /home/christopher/bin/harps: line 20: [: roll: binary operator expected > This command is under construction > stuff > christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ------------------------------------------------------- From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Sep 15 22:38:59 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:38:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609160338.k8G3cxh25666@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Monitor and keyboards 1) Dell Ultrascan P991 trinitron flatscreen 19 inch CRT monitor. Tested with my laptop - it seems to work fine. I don't have room for a 19 inch monitor. (See http://tinyurl.com/lmxl7 and http://tinyurl.com/lenuf for specs.) 2) 6 Model M IBM ps2 keyboards - classics. (Part no. 1397440 if you're really into them.) 3) 4 other miscellaneous ps2 keyboards. Seller Email address: strayf at freeshell dot org http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Fri Sep 15 22:41:47 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:41:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bash Scripting error - binary operator expected In-Reply-To: <200609152236.09185.jus@krytosvirus.com> References: <200609152236.09185.jus@krytosvirus.com> Message-ID: <20060916034147.GA3806@mail.el-swifto.com> On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 10:36:08PM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > It's expecting just 1 argument to the command but you are putting two in > there. Either run as ./harps roll > or change > if [ -z $@ ] > to > if [ -z $1 ] > > This then says check for the first argument to not exist. No, this checks the length of the first argument. If I specify "" as the first argument, this says the wrong thing. How about checking $#? -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From seehow at iphouse.com Sat Sep 16 02:17:52 2006 From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:17:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bash Scripting error - binary operator expected In-Reply-To: <20060916034147.GA3806@mail.el-swifto.com> References: <200609152236.09185.jus@krytosvirus.com> <20060916034147.GA3806@mail.el-swifto.com> Message-ID: <1158391072.1109.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2006-09-15 at 22:41 -0500, John J. Trammell wrote: > On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 10:36:08PM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > > It's expecting just 1 argument to the command but you are putting two in > > there. Either run as ./harps roll > > or change > > if [ -z $@ ] > > to > > if [ -z $1 ] > > > > This then says check for the first argument to not exist. > > No, this checks the length of the first argument. If I specify "" as > the first argument, this says the wrong thing. How about checking $#? > Well, I tried the [ -z $# ], and the script stopped funtioning the other way around. christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ~/bin/harps roll stuff This command is under construction stuff christopher at seehow:~/bin$ ~/bin/harps christopher at seehow:~/bin$ I also tried [ -z $1 ], wich does work the way I want, but I still have no idea why it's expecting a binary operator on line 20. From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com Sat Sep 16 14:34:30 2006 From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:34:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Bash Scripting error - binary operator expected In-Reply-To: <1158391072.1109.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200609152236.09185.jus@krytosvirus.com> <20060916034147.GA3806@mail.el-swifto.com> <1158391072.1109.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20060916193429.GA20227@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sat, Sep 16, 2006 at 02:17:52AM -0500, Christopher Howard wrote: > Well, I tried the [ -z $# ], and the script stopped funtioning the > other way around. $# is numeric, so check it like: if [ $# -eq 0 ]; then ... -- trammell at el-swifto.com 9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58 FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5 Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG) Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota From strayf at freeshell.org Sat Sep 16 16:34:49 2006 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:34:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad In-Reply-To: <200609160338.k8G3cxh25666@crusader.real-time.com> References: <200609160338.k8G3cxh25666@crusader.real-time.com> Message-ID: <450C6DF9.6050006@freeshell.org> The monitor's gone. Let me know if anyone want the keyboards before I turn the keys into fridge magnets. -Steve TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Free > > Subject: Monitor and keyboards > > 1) Dell Ultrascan P991 trinitron flatscreen 19 inch CRT monitor. Tested with my laptop - it seems to work fine. I don't have room for a 19 inch monitor. (See http://tinyurl.com/lmxl7 and http://tinyurl.com/lenuf for specs.) > > 2) 6 Model M IBM ps2 keyboards - classics. (Part no. 1397440 if you're really into them.) > > 3) 4 other miscellaneous ps2 keyboards. > > > > Seller Email address: strayf at freeshell dot org > > http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Sep 19 11:24:24 2006 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:24:24 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Can't find appropriate program Message-ID: <091920061624.8616.451019B8000BB688000021A822070209530B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> I knew there was such a program for Windows, just found it: http://www.anderssoftware.com/ocdb/index.html Not sure if that helps....... -- ---- ------ Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Jordan Peacock" > I know a program like this exists, but I have been googling for it all > morning and can't seem to find it. > > What is does is examine the contents of your CDs, DVDs, etc, and creates a > database of sorts of their filesystems. > > When you need x file, you search for x and it tells you where and on what CD > it is on. > > What is the software name? > > -jordan -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Jordan Peacock" Subject: [tclug-list] Can't find appropriate program Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:27:37 +0000 Size: 2063 Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060919/83570aab/attachment.eml From seehow at iphouse.com Wed Sep 20 19:07:44 2006 From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:07:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] in bash, getting a history funtion for read -e Message-ID: <1158797264.1305.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm trying to get a history function for the read -e command in bash. I tried set -o history, but the results shocked me. I've been able to set up macros in the read -e command, but it seems all the variables that effect history effect the shells history function rather than a history funtion for the read -e command. read -e is readline, so how do I get history set up for it? From admin at lctn.org Thu Sep 21 13:37:25 2006 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:37:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders Message-ID: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to find folders or files that are taking up the space? Raymond -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dalan at visi.com Thu Sep 21 14:05:24 2006 From: dalan at visi.com (dalan at visi.com) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:05:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> Message-ID: <1158865524.4512e27481e2d@my.visi.com> How about the find command. Try something like find / -depth -size +500k -ls. Just a though Don S. Quoting Raymond Norton : > I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log > files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive > still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to > find folders or files that are taking up the space? > > > Raymond > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Sep 21 14:05:38 2006 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:05:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> Message-ID: <4512E282.7000008@tcq.net> Raymond Norton wrote: >I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log >files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive >still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to >find folders or files that are taking up the space? > > >Raymond > > > Use "find" to find the large files. For example: find /home -size +100M finds files under the /home directory which are larger than 100 MB. Konqueror (in KDE) has a View/View Mode/File Size View that shows a graphical view. Kind of weird looking, but fun. Kraig From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Sep 21 14:17:01 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:17:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158865524.4512e27481e2d@my.visi.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> <1158865524.4512e27481e2d@my.visi.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 dalan at visi.com wrote: > How about the find command. Try something like find / -depth -size +500k -ls That would be a very thorough way of finding big files and it will take a long time. I usually use "du -sk *" to get a listing of directory volumes in the current default directory. That helps me to figure out where the big stuff is. When there are lots of data, that method isn't super fast either, but it is fast on showing the directories that don't have a lot in them. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Sep 21 14:29:10 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:29:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <4512E282.7000008@tcq.net> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> <4512E282.7000008@tcq.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Kraig Jones wrote: > Use "find" to find the large files. For example: > find /home -size +100M > finds files under the /home directory which are larger than 100 MB. That works but if there are many files of 99 MB, it won't show any of them. Using ls with the right options will list all files sorted by size within directories: ls -RSl | less But how can we get ls to show the full path for every filename? There must be a trick to it that I don't know. If we can get the full path, you can do this: ls -Rl | sort -rn -k5,5 | less That "sort" is sorting by file size with largest on top. > Konqueror (in KDE) has a View/View Mode/File Size View that shows a > graphical view. Kind of weird looking, but fun. That sounds interesting. Mike From ntraxler at mn.rr.com Thu Sep 21 14:35:50 2006 From: ntraxler at mn.rr.com (Nick Traxler) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:35:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> Message-ID: <4512E996.2050803@mn.rr.com> I've used File System Visualizer(fsv) for this in the past. I had to compile it; I don't think it's packaged in any distros. It gives you a nice proportional graphic representation of disk use, and you can navigate into subdirectories and get the same data. You probably don't want to run it in / though, it'll take a while to scan your whole filesystem. http://fsv.sourceforge.net/ Nick Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log > files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive > still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to > find folders or files that are taking up the space? > > > Raymond > > From thecubic at thecubic.net Thu Sep 21 14:37:45 2006 From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:37:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> Message-ID: <200609211437.45820.thecubic@thecubic.net> I personally use du -x /mountpoint | sort -n | tail -100 That gets you the 100 heaviest hitters (directories and files). It takes a while to run. -Dave On Thursday 21 September 2006 13:37, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log > files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive > still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to > find folders or files that are taking up the space? > > > Raymond From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu Thu Sep 21 14:03:24 2006 From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:03:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> Message-ID: <20060921140324.A5193@belka.space.umn.edu> On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 01:37:25PM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log > files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive > still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to > find folders or files that are taking up the space? > Here's the command that I use to find the biggest 100 files on a file system. find / -mount -size +100 -exec /bin/ls -sd {} \; | sort -nr | head -100 > /tmp/big You could probably whip something similar up for directories by adding df into the mix. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From jkjones at tcq.net Thu Sep 21 14:49:46 2006 From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:49:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> <4512E282.7000008@tcq.net> Message-ID: <4512ECDA.6020400@tcq.net> Mike Miller wrote: > >> Konqueror (in KDE) has a View/View Mode/File Size View that shows a >> graphical view. Kind of weird looking, but fun. > > > That sounds interesting. > > Mike > > It's something I stumbled into one day. So I see a screen full of colored "boxes" or "tiles"... "What the ...???!!" It shows each file as a tile, with its size proportional to the size of the file. It could be kinda slow, but it's an easy way to see the big files. K From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 14:51:07 2006 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:51:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> Message-ID: <45143EAB.6070002@gmail.com> Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a drive that has filled up to 98%. I have removed all known log > files and quarantined messages from MailScanner, etc.., but the drive > still shows it is near capacity. Is there a tool or command I can use to > find folders or files that are taking up the space? > > > Raymond > > Wow, you guys all like doing things the hard way :) http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/jdiskreport/ Click on the webstart link, let it run on the volume for a while, and you get an easy to navigate graphical result that lets you immediately pinpoint your wasted space. Dan -- **************************** Daniel Armbrust Biomedical Informatics Mayo Clinic Rochester daniel.armbrust(at)mayo.edu http://informatics.mayo.edu/ From robbyt at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 15:21:53 2006 From: robbyt at gmail.com (Rob Terhaar) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:21:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <45143EAB.6070002@gmail.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> <45143EAB.6070002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f663090609221321k59f5b6d9q4dce368ffad59503@mail.gmail.com> 9/22/06, Dan Armbrust wrote: > Wow, you guys all like doing things the hard way :) > > http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/jdiskreport/ > > Click on the webstart link, let it run on the volume for a while, and > you get an easy to navigate graphical result that lets you immediately > pinpoint your wasted space. > > Dan > Dan i followed that link, but it doesn't seem to work with lynx... From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Sep 22 15:52:11 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:52:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] cut -o would be nice Message-ID: See info below. So "cut -o" was rejected by the POSIX committee I guess, but it seems like a good idea to me. If we can't have "cut -o", how about a new program "cuto" that we can add to our systems if we want it? Has any such thing been written? How hard would it be to write it? I guess the "cut -o" plan was rejected about 7 years ago. Mike http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/utilities/cut.html A proposal to enhance cut with the following option: -o Preserve the selected field order. When this option is specified, each byte, character, or field (or ranges of such) shall be written in the order specified by the list option-argument, even if this requires multiple outputs of the same bytes, characters, or fields. was rejected because this type of enhancement is outside the scope of the IEEE P1003.2b draft standard. From florin at iucha.net Fri Sep 22 18:01:17 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:01:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] cut -o would be nice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060922230117.GF10772@iucha.net> On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 03:52:11PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > See info below. So "cut -o" was rejected by the POSIX committee I guess, > but it seems like a good idea to me. If we can't have "cut -o", how about > a new program "cuto" that we can add to our systems if we want it? Has > any such thing been written? How hard would it be to write it? I guess > the "cut -o" plan was rejected about 7 years ago. You can use awk for that: $ cat | awk '{print $3 " " $2 " " $2 " " $2 " " $1}' This really works! ^D works! really really really This TMTOWTDI, florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060922/df009f04/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Sep 22 18:20:29 2006 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:20:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] cut -o would be nice In-Reply-To: <20060922230117.GF10772@iucha.net> References: <20060922230117.GF10772@iucha.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 03:52:11PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> See info below. So "cut -o" was rejected by the POSIX committee I guess, >> but it seems like a good idea to me. If we can't have "cut -o", how about >> a new program "cuto" that we can add to our systems if we want it? Has >> any such thing been written? How hard would it be to write it? I guess >> the "cut -o" plan was rejected about 7 years ago. > > You can use awk for that: > > $ cat | awk '{print $3 " " $2 " " $2 " " $2 " " $1}' > This really works! > ^D > works! really really really This > > TMTOWTDI, > florin When there are three columns in and five columns out, I could use it, but if this were the goal... cut -o -c 91-112,7-12,1-6 ...your method leads to an awful lot of typing! It's just too bad that gawk doesn't allow the user to specify ranges of fields such as $3-$7. I'll bet that perl is good for this kind of thing, but I'd need to know a little more before I'd be able to do this quickly and easily. It would be much better to have "cuto" if not "cut -o". Mike From s.earl.martin at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 22:30:36 2006 From: s.earl.martin at gmail.com (Sam Martin) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:30:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <45143EAB.6070002@gmail.com> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> <45143EAB.6070002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/22/06, Dan Armbrust wrote: > ... > Wow, you guys all like doing things the hard way :) > > http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/jdiskreport/ > > Click on the webstart link, let it run on the volume for a while, and > you get an easy to navigate graphical result that lets you immediately > pinpoint your wasted space. > ... xdiskusage provides a similar visual display, with a somewhat less icky license (and somewhat ickier interface), all in a 36k source package (it gets its stats from du). http://xdiskusage.sourceforge.net/ On my ubuntu box, "apt-cache search disk usage" returns several interesting prospects. A similar search for your distro might be helpful if you're looking for a quick 'n' easy generic solution. sm From jus at krytosvirus.com Sun Sep 24 06:11:09 2006 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 06:11:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] finding large files or folders In-Reply-To: <2176577.1158866547294.JavaMail.root@sniper65> References: <1158863845.6372.152.camel@project-1.tamray.com> <1158865524.4512e27481e2d@my.visi.com> <2176577.1158866547294.JavaMail.root@sniper65> Message-ID: <200609240611.10189.jus@krytosvirus.com> That's close to what I use but I think this is a tad better though -h vs -k is arguable, I think -c is great. du -chs * On Thursday 21 September 2006 14:17, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 dalan at visi.com wrote: > > How about the find command. Try something like find / -depth -size +500k > > -ls > > That would be a very thorough way of finding big files and it will take a > long time. I usually use "du -sk *" to get a listing of directory volumes > in the current default directory. That helps me to figure out where the > big stuff is. When there are lots of data, that method isn't super fast > either, but it is fast on showing the directories that don't have a lot in > them. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Sep 27 11:36:43 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:36:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609271636.k8RGah222964@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: sdram pc100/133 5 sticks of pc133 cl3 128mb sdram...$4ea. 2 sticks of pc100 cl2 128mb sdram...$3ea. 2 sticks of pc100 64mb ram...$1ea. or free w/ any other purchase Seller Email address: jungle at hickorytech dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Wed Sep 27 15:08:17 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:08:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609272008.k8RK8HZ28421@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: Want to Buy Subject: AMD 2000 or better 133FSB Socket A Anybody have a AMD Socket A CPU collecting dust? I am in need of a 2000+ - 2600+ Thoroughbred. Must have a 133FSB. Cheap is a plus. Just though I'd try here before eBay. Thank you, Carl Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Thu Sep 28 16:30:45 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:30:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609282130.k8SLUji14232@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Parts Hey All, I have a Jetway Motherboard I would like to get rid of. I have never used this board. It has been opened by me, but never installed in a computer. $35.00 Jetway Motherboard (Specs) Socket 478(Pentium 4) FSB - 400/533 Memory Supported Pc2100 Through 2700 Max Memory Supported is 3gb Agp 4x/8x Onboard Ac97 Audio Usb - 2x 2.0 Ports Lan - 10/100 Pick can be arranged as far as pick up @ my house or a meeting somewhere can be arranged. Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Sep 29 07:40:44 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:40:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609291240.k8TCeiQ28131@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Home Typists Needed Home Typists Needed! Make $200-950 per day! You can start making money in 30 minutes! Get paid every 2 weeks by mail with a check or bank transfer. http://ourdollars.com Seller Email address: blrbindu at yahoo dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Sep 29 09:26:26 2006 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:26:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200609291426.k8TEQQH31329@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Sale Subject: Palm VX Ok, here's an oldie for you. Wife bought me a new Palm, so my old one is available. PalmVX, screen in very good shape, battery life still a couple weeks between chargings w/hard case, soft case,PS2 cradle & pwr adapter, Travel pwr adapter, travel ps2 sync cable, keyboard, palm modem, and OmniSky modem, and paid for OS upgrade to version 4. All of it works, except I have never used the OmniSky. Make me a reasonable trade or offer. Seller Email address: tletofsky at umwcs dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From dan at dandrake.org Sat Sep 30 12:58:13 2006 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:58:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lockups on my Ubuntu box Message-ID: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> I'm running Ubuntu and for some time now, I've had a big problem with it locking up. The machine simply won't run for more than 8-10 hours without locking up. It just freezes, completely, and there's nothing in the logs to suggest what went wrong. Sometimes it locks up after a little while, sometimes it goes all day. This has been happening since summer and all this month, so heat is not a problem. It seemed like a memory problem, but I ran memtest86 overnight (about 40 passes total) and it showed no errors. So it seems like a kernel bug, or a problem with the motherboard. Any suggestions on how to track down the problem? I upgraded to Edgy Eft, since that has a new kernel, but an hour after getting that going, it locked up just like before. This is very irritating. I use a Windows machine sometimes at work and it's very depressing to see it run continuously for a week or more with no problems while my Linux box crashes about once a day! Here's some specs: MSI KM3M-V motherboard Sempron 1.75GHz cpu 2 512MB sticks of Crucial RAM Suggestions for how to track down the problem? Thanks. Dan -- Ceci n'est pas une .signature. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060930/3f2d688e/attachment.pgp From robbyt at gmail.com Sat Sep 30 13:08:41 2006 From: robbyt at gmail.com (Rob Terhaar) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:08:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lockups on my Ubuntu box In-Reply-To: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> References: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> Message-ID: <1f663090609301108o177ece1l8582163bd5234100@mail.gmail.com> On 9/30/06, Dan Drake wrote: > I'm running Ubuntu and for some time now, I've had a big problem with it > locking up. The machine simply won't run for more than 8-10 hours > without locking up. It just freezes, completely, and there's nothing in > the logs to suggest what went wrong. > > Sometimes it locks up after a little while, sometimes it goes all day. > This has been happening since summer and all this month, so heat is not > a problem. > > It seemed like a memory problem, but I ran memtest86 overnight (about 40 > passes total) and it showed no errors. So it seems like a kernel bug, or > a problem with the motherboard. Any suggestions on how to track down the > problem? > > I upgraded to Edgy Eft, since that has a new kernel, but an hour > after getting that going, it locked up just like before. > > This is very irritating. I use a Windows machine sometimes at work and > it's very depressing to see it run continuously for a week or more with > no problems while my Linux box crashes about once a day! > > Here's some specs: > > MSI KM3M-V motherboard > Sempron 1.75GHz cpu > 2 512MB sticks of Crucial RAM > > Suggestions for how to track down the problem? Thanks. > > Dan random lockups generally signify some sort of hardware problem. more specifically i'd say, check the temperature on your hardware. Is the fan on the video card running? is the processor fan plugged up with pubes? Also, are you using closed-source video card drivers? Try to switch to the open-source version of the drivers (which tend to be slower, but more stable) From chewie at wookimus.net Sat Sep 30 14:27:37 2006 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:27:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lockups on my Ubuntu box In-Reply-To: <1f663090609301108o177ece1l8582163bd5234100@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> <1f663090609301108o177ece1l8582163bd5234100@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060930192737.5F3A023F9@skuld.wookimus.net> "Rob Terhaar" wrote: > Also, are you using closed-source video card drivers? Try to switch > to the open-source version of the drivers (which tend to be slower, > but more stable) On that note, make sure you have SSH running so you can log in remotely, if anything, to do a clean shutdown. I have had my share of video problems over the years, and having SSH has saved many an fsck. -- Chad Walstrom http://www.wookimus.net/ assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */ From dan at dandrake.org Sat Sep 30 15:09:58 2006 From: dan at dandrake.org (Dan Drake) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 15:09:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lockups on my Ubuntu box In-Reply-To: <1f663090609301108o177ece1l8582163bd5234100@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> <1f663090609301108o177ece1l8582163bd5234100@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060930200958.GA17650@dandrake.org> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 at 01:08PM -0500, Rob Terhaar wrote: > random lockups generally signify some sort of hardware problem. more > specifically i'd say, check the temperature on your hardware. Is the > fan on the video card running? is the processor fan plugged up with > pubes? It's onboard video. The motherboard temp right now is 24C (75F), and the processor is at 110F, so heat doesn't seem like a problem. > Also, are you using closed-source video card drivers? Try to switch to > the open-source version of the drivers (which tend to be slower, but > more stable) I don't have the "restricted" modules installed, so I'm definitely using open source drivers. Dan -- Ceci n'est pas une .signature. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060930/fd3cf20d/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Sat Sep 30 23:31:41 2006 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:31:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] lockups on my Ubuntu box In-Reply-To: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> References: <20060930175813.GA17490@dandrake.org> Message-ID: <20061001043140.GE22119@iucha.net> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 12:58:13PM -0500, Dan Drake wrote: > It seemed like a memory problem, but I ran memtest86 overnight (about 40 > passes total) and it showed no errors. So it seems like a kernel bug, or > a problem with the motherboard. Any suggestions on how to track down the > problem? > Suggestions for how to track down the problem? Thanks. First thing I would try is to run a few kernel compilations, with a high number of processes. Just untar a recent kernel, then make allyesconfig MAKE='make -j 4' make bzImage (this is all from memory, but it should be close) This should put some serious stress on the CPU, northbridge and memory. If that passes, I suggest doing some md5sums of iso files in parallel with the compilation. Also try with only one stick of memory at a time, or even with different memory altogether. Is it possible to add a serial console to the machine? That will allow you to capture a bad oops. Good luck and let us know what you find, florin -- If we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as lines produced but as lines spent. -- Edsger Dijkstra -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20060930/e01f79ae/attachment.pgp