From ankush at ensim.com  Wed Apr 25 11:02:39 2007
From: ankush at ensim.com (Ankush)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:19:51 2005
Subject: [TCLUG] Help Required on %post
Message-ID: <000c01c78753$2e94fda0$0119430a@india.ensim.com>

Hi,
I am trying to install an RPM in the %post script of a spec file. But on doing so it gives me an "exclusive lock on database" error. If you have come across this problem before please send me a mail at your latest.
Also if you have any idea of how to "rpm -ivh --nodeps <rpm file>" without installing the rpm, but from the build itself, please let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Ankush
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From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 10:28:35 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 10:28:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ntp and CST
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0703290442i3fee3fa7ne5d4068cb5944910@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90703271942g3da1873fw85d90769b8a4e256@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272019l37bf5396t6be24c3159d648e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272021v62de8376sd87de8daf8a7ca0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272024j7770c6fbp8ae6056ae87cf0ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305.216.17.75.74.1175058176.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
	<101e49ea0703280612i3228876ax5cccd860a3ea8569@mail.gmail.com>
	<460A7C48.7050803@e-skinner.net>
	<1f663090703280914y3d720d29v82791acfb1a126b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703280924x4ee51206q28749a07b36fb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a0703290442i3fee3fa7ne5d4068cb5944910@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90704010828h36a52c79y6f49ebc010f7be9@mail.gmail.com>

Hay, it worked!  I just rebooted and now I'm on CDT.  Awesome.  Glad I
asked.
(wow, that's crappy snark)
I heard Sun was sending out patches for this mini-y2k.
I use Sun almost as much as I use Windows. ..What a weird thing to say.


On 3/29/07, Shawn Fertch <sfertch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/28/07, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/28/07, Rob Terhaar <robbyt at robbyt.net> wrote:
> > > ok can someone explain why just doing
> > > ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago /etc/localtime
> > >
> > > is bad?
> >
> > I've wondered the same thing in the past.  The best explanation I
> > could come up with is that if you're symlinking your tz file and have
> > /usr on a separate partition and that partition fails to mount
> > someday, things could get messy.
> >
> > I'm a gentoo user, and when I started using the distro, they
> > recommended symlinking that file.  Recently though, they've changed
> > their recommendation to actually copy the tz file.
> >
>
> This is across all distros.  It's brought on by our wonderful
> legislatures changing when DST occurs.
>
> All that being said, there's more to making a system compliant for DST
> than just updating the tzdata package.  You also need to update glibc
> packages, and if you're running java, that as well.
>
> On an RH/Fedora based system, there's a total of 4 packages if you
> don't count java:
>
> Glibc-common
> Glibc
> Glibc-utils
> Tzdata
>
>
> If you read into the FAQ by Red Hat, you would notice that if you
> updated all packages together, you do not need to change the
> /etc/localtime file by hand.  It's done automatically.  It would be a
> bad idea to delete the file, and recreate a symlink of /etc/localtime
> to your /usr/share/zoneinfo/TZFILE as the localtime file will be
> updated every time you update your system with the packages listed
> above and revert back to a copy of your tz file.
>
> The /etc/localtime file is a copy of your timezone as specified within
> the /etc/sysconfig/clock file on RH based systems.  Or, equivalent
> file depending upon your distro.
>
> --
> -Shawn
>
> -Nemo me impune lacessit.  Ne Obliviscaris..
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From anthony at tekoneracing.com  Sun Apr  1 13:07:20 2007
From: anthony at tekoneracing.com (Anthony Cavin)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 13:07:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>

I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's
interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate
through



From tclug at natecarlson.com  Sun Apr  1 13:24:43 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:24:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Anthony Cavin wrote:
> I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's 
> interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate 
> through

We've hashed through this many times; the general concensus is that very 
few people want a bulletin board.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Apr  1 13:55:08 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:55:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704011855.l31It8Z21633@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Compaq Proliant 3000 - Free

Compaq Proliant 3000 with dual Pentium Pro 200, 640M memory, dual RAID controllers. Each array has 4 9GB drives in a RAID 5 configuration, making for 54GB total storage. Only problem is that there is a firmware mismatch on one of the RAID controllers forcing an F1 prompt to boot. And it could use a good dusting.

Located on East Side of St. Paul. Contact wolf at noquarter dot org for more info.

Seller Email address: bruce dot broecker at toro dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From kyle.quamme at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 14:12:21 2007
From: kyle.quamme at gmail.com (Kyle Quamme)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 14:12:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, a bullitin board would be nice. I'd rather have a place that I
can search for fixes, etc instead of saving it all in my e-mail, of course
it's not that big of an issue since I have gmail, but still.

On 4/1/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Anthony Cavin wrote:
> > I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's
> > interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate
> > through
>
> We've hashed through this many times; the general concensus is that very
> few people want a bulletin board.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From anthony at tekoneracing.com  Sun Apr  1 14:44:24 2007
From: anthony at tekoneracing.com (Anthony Cavin)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:44:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] installfest
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>

when is the next installfest?  i don't think i've been to a TCLUG
meeting in like a year



From silwenae at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 15:04:02 2007
From: silwenae at gmail.com (Paul Cutler)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:04:02 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] installfest
In-Reply-To: <1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0704011304p46d03384u7a25e4f00df0642e@mail.gmail.com>

A few of us have volunteered to get the meetings going.  It's been harder
than expected to find a room location and speakers, but we're close and will
have an update soon.

Paul Cutler

On 4/1/07, Anthony Cavin <anthony at tekoneracing.com> wrote:
>
> when is the next installfest?  i don't think i've been to a TCLUG
> meeting in like a year
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From brockn at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 15:42:07 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:42:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704011342y701a1345k213fa61e10bbf0d6@mail.gmail.com>

It seems like a BB would only be a benefit if we had a lot of TC
specific things to discuss.  For general Linux topics, there are a ton
of BB's out there.

Brock

On 4/1/07, Kyle Quamme <kyle.quamme at gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, a bullitin board would be nice. I'd rather have a place that I
> can search for fixes, etc instead of saving it all in my e-mail, of course
> it's not that big of an issue since I have gmail, but still.
>
>
> On 4/1/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Anthony Cavin wrote:
> > > I'd be willing to host a bulletin board on my server if anyone's
> > > interested.  these mailing lists are too old school for me to navigate
> > > through
> >
> > We've hashed through this many times; the general concensus is that very
> > few people want a bulletin board.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> > |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From chewie at wookimus.net  Sun Apr  1 16:30:15 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:30:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ntp and CST
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90704010828h36a52c79y6f49ebc010f7be9@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <b8fc4dd90703271942g3da1873fw85d90769b8a4e256@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272019l37bf5396t6be24c3159d648e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272021v62de8376sd87de8daf8a7ca0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272024j7770c6fbp8ae6056ae87cf0ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305.216.17.75.74.1175058176.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
	<101e49ea0703280612i3228876ax5cccd860a3ea8569@mail.gmail.com>
	<460A7C48.7050803@e-skinner.net>
	<1f663090703280914y3d720d29v82791acfb1a126b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703280924x4ee51206q28749a07b36fb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a0703290442i3fee3fa7ne5d4068cb5944910@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90704010828h36a52c79y6f49ebc010f7be9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070401213015.4C7B976D9@skuld.wookimus.net>

"Bob Hartmann" <bob.hartmann at gmail.com>  wrote:
> Hay, it worked!  I just rebooted and now I'm on CDT.  Awesome.  Glad
> I asked.  (wow, that's crappy snark) I heard Sun was sending out
> patches for this mini-y2k.  I use Sun almost as much as I use
> Windows. ..What a weird thing to say.

Actually, Sun's had Solaris and Java patches for a while.  It's just
that many businesses and vendors didn't bother worrying about it until
shortly before.  There is a catch to Sun's Solaris support, though.
They don't provide patches to anything less than Solaris 8 without a
fee. :-P  Good thing we only had a few boxes we had to worry about at
work.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From nate at refried.org  Sun Apr  1 16:39:40 2007
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:39:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>

On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 02:12:21PM -0500, Kyle Quamme wrote:
> Personally, a bullitin board would be nice. I'd rather have a place that I
> can search for fixes, etc instead of saving it all in my e-mail, of course
> it's not that big of an issue since I have gmail, but still.

If all you want is a better way to search through posts, how about
looking for a better archives interface?

Nate


From anthony at tekoneracing.com  Sun Apr  1 17:42:52 2007
From: anthony at tekoneracing.com (Anthony Cavin)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:42:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1127.1175463128.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1127.1175463128.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1175467372.5145.30.camel@xcube>

the reason i was thinking it was that it would be easier to organize
meetings that way and give the appearance of a more active website.  i
think the last update on the community site was back in january



From kyle.quamme at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 18:34:35 2007
From: kyle.quamme at gmail.com (Kyle Quamme)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 18:34:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
Message-ID: <12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>

I  can find things alright, but saving all of the emails is going to use up
space, so if I decide not to save them, I'll probably end up asking a
question later on that's already been answered, or I'll have to make another
e-mail just for list correspondence. Doing it this way is sort of a waste of
bytes because if someone else does the same thing, it takes up room on
multiple machines/locations when it could be put in a central location and
would only use up space in one location. Does that make sense?

Kyle
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From seehow at iphouse.com  Sun Apr  1 19:01:04 2007
From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:01:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
	<12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175472064.1238.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Isn't this list on gmane?




From brockn at gmail.com  Sun Apr  1 19:28:47 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 19:28:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Bulletin board
In-Reply-To: <1175472064.1238.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1175450840.5145.24.camel@xcube>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704011324060.14112@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<12f48e800704011212s1dc555fm807a3dbbe2859f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070401213940.GA5893@refried.org>
	<12f48e800704011634y448045f4ob5f799764dfa50d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175472064.1238.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704011728x590c2556r9cfa97a65fa1a31b@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed:

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user%2dgroups.linux.tclug

On 4/1/07, Christopher Howard <seehow at iphouse.com> wrote:
> Isn't this list on gmane?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Sun Apr  1 20:46:33 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:46:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <200704011855.l31It8Z21633@crusader.real-time.com>
References: <200704011855.l31It8Z21633@crusader.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704012043310.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote:
> Compaq Proliant 3000 with dual Pentium Pro 200, 640M memory, dual RAID 
> controllers. Each array has 4 9GB drives in a RAID 5 configuration, 
> making for 54GB total storage. Only problem is that there is a firmware 
> mismatch on one of the RAID controllers forcing an F1 prompt to boot. 
> And it could use a good dusting.

  Have you tried running no_f1.com on it?  It disables the "press F1 to 
continue" (or whatever) prompt for most problems on Compaqs.  (Smaller 
ones, at least -- I haven't had the need to try it on my Proliant.)  If 
you (or whoever takes this beast off your hands) can't find it, email me 
off-list -- I know I have it.  (Three copies of it, apparently.)

      Jima


From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com  Sun Apr  1 21:02:28 2007
From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker)
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:02:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704012043310.7527@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <C235CE64.1501%bruce.broecker@toro.com>


On 4/1/07 8:46 PM, "Jima" <jima at beer.tclug.org> wrote:

> 
>   Have you tried running no_f1.com on it?  It disables the "press F1 to
> continue" (or whatever) prompt for most problems on Compaqs.  (Smaller
> ones, at least -- I haven't had the need to try it on my Proliant.)  If
> you (or whoever takes this beast off your hands) can't find it, email me
> off-list -- I know I have it.  (Three copies of it, apparently.)
> 
>       Jima

Never heard of it, but now its not my problem anymore. Server has already
Moved on.

Bruce

This electronic message including any attachments ("Message") may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
disclosure under trade secret and other applicable law. If you are not
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delete all copies of this Message, and be aware that examination, use,
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From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Mon Apr  2 01:53:13 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:53:13 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] installfest
In-Reply-To: <4c4ad4df0704011304p46d03384u7a25e4f00df0642e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1175446806.19403.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>	<1175456664.5145.26.camel@xcube>
	<4c4ad4df0704011304p46d03384u7a25e4f00df0642e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4610A859.1040707@mchsi.com>

Paul Cutler wrote:
> A few of us have volunteered to get the meetings going.  It's been 
> harder than expected to find a room location and speakers, but we're 
> close and will have an update soon.
>
> Paul Cutler
I can't wait. A meeting! :)

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx


>
> On 4/1/07, *Anthony Cavin* <anthony at tekoneracing.com 
> <mailto:anthony at tekoneracing.com>> wrote:
>
>     when is the next installfest?  i don't think i've been to a TCLUG
>     meeting in like a year
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Apr  2 11:21:32 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:21:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] North Central Linux Symposium 2007 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704021120320.23367@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

I received this from a bioinformatics list at the U.  --Mike


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: North Central Linux Symposium 2007
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:20:50 -0500

All-
Mark your calendars!  The second annual North Central Linux Symposium
will be held June 14 & 15, 2007.  Hennepin Technical College in Brooklyn
Park, a northern suburb of Minneapolis, will be hosting the conference
this year.  HTC has a nice auditorium we'll be using.  The format will
be similar to last year: Day 1 will be spent showing off K12LTSP to
people from schools from around Minnesota; Day 2 will cover the future
of LTSP, details about version 5 of LTSP, and so on.  Jim McQuillan and
Scott Balneaves will both be there, and I'm hoping Gideon Romm, who has
done a lot of the work on the sound system, will also make it.  See the
website for more information: http://www.nclinux.net .  Please register so we 
know if you're coming (as some of you have already).  If you have any
questions, you can send them via the website.  Hope to see you there.

Petre Scheie
Organizer, NCLS


From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  2 12:45:29 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:45:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
Message-ID: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>

I am browsing source forge for a video switcher project, but am not
finding anything. Anyone aware of a project that can switch between 4 live
video feeds, with a single (or more) ntsc output?


Raymond

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 12:54:32 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:54:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/2/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I am browsing source forge for a video switcher project, but am not
> finding anything. Anyone aware of a project that can switch between 4 live
> video feeds, with a single (or more) ntsc output?

Are you hoping to do this in software?  If not, there are a myriad of
cheap hardware video switchers that can do this quite easily, and with
much higher stability, I might add.

I don't know of any projects to do this, but it wouldn't be hard to
homebrew, using vlc to do the video capturing/display.  Of course
you'd need 4+ capture cards in the PC.

-erik


From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  2 12:58:34 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:58:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3421.64.8.148.4.1175536714.squirrel@lctn.org>

> I don't know of any projects to do this, but it wouldn't be hard to
> homebrew, using vlc to do the video capturing/display.  Of course
> you'd need 4+ capture cards in the PC.
>


I happen to have quite a few capture cards, so I was looking to set up a
PC for this.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.



From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  2 13:56:19 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:56:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <46114D03.9060006@cdf123.net>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>	<fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
	<3421.64.8.148.4.1175536714.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<46114D03.9060006@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <4235.64.8.148.4.1175540179.squirrel@lctn.org>

> Depending on the capture cards, that might not be so easy.  I've got a
> couple old wintv cards that I was going to hook up, but they were frame
> capture cards.  So I needed to use a cd-audio cable from the capture
> card to the sound card.  Most sound cards only have a cd and aux1 port
> for this, so 4 cards would need a second sound card, or more if the
> cards only have one cd-audio port.
>
> Or you could do what I did and get a mpeg encoder card (with multiple
> tuner options if you want), but those are expensive.


This would be strictly video. All audio runs separate.

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From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 14:36:07 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:36:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <4235.64.8.148.4.1175540179.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <2205.64.8.148.4.1175535929.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704021054k23e997b3hac6d799d5400d477@mail.gmail.com>
	<3421.64.8.148.4.1175536714.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<46114D03.9060006@cdf123.net>
	<4235.64.8.148.4.1175540179.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704021236p11553280v4e6a7dbd36f6d355@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/2/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
>
> This would be strictly video. All audio runs separate.

Now - I obviously don't know the whole situation here, but to me, this
sounds like a classic sledgehammer/thumbtack issue.  Just because you
*can* use linux/technology to accomplish a task doesn't mean it's
always the best idea.

If you don't have an explicit need for this to be run through a PC,
just buy an off-the-shelf video switch.  That'll free up your cards
for you to do something more enjoyable with...MythTV perhaps?

-erik


From iipreca at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  2 18:07:44 2007
From: iipreca at hotmail.com (G J)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:07:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] video switcher
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704021236p11553280v4e6a7dbd36f6d355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F6BB4F6CEA015163932804AA600@phx.gbl>

You might want to check out Aten, Extron and Kramer, these folks make very 
nice video equipment
and I'm almost positive they can all be controlled via RS-232 with very 
simple serial instructions as well as manually, ebay always has a good list 
of equipment for less too.

Jesse


>
>I am browsing source forge for a video switcher project, but am not
>finding anything. Anyone aware of a project that can switch between 4 live
>video feeds, with a single (or more) ntsc output?
>
>
>Raymond
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>believed to be clean.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





>From: "Erik Anderson" <erikerik at gmail.com>
>To: "admin at lctn.org" <admin at lctn.org>
>CC: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] video switcher
>Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:36:07 -0500
>
>On 4/2/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> >
> > This would be strictly video. All audio runs separate.
>
>Now - I obviously don't know the whole situation here, but to me, this
>sounds like a classic sledgehammer/thumbtack issue.  Just because you
>*can* use linux/technology to accomplish a task doesn't mean it's
>always the best idea.
>
>If you don't have an explicit need for this to be run through a PC,
>just buy an off-the-shelf video switch.  That'll free up your cards
>for you to do something more enjoyable with...MythTV perhaps?
>
>-erik
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get 
intro-rate 4.625%* 
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743



From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Apr  2 18:44:10 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:44:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] connecting dsl
In-Reply-To: <460BF41F.4070007@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <0Eclb0md.1175557450.6588640.jus@krytosvirus.com>

>I have installed xandros business pack on a computer.  I am having
>problems with
>getting a connection. The results are "no DCHP offers received"
>
>Windows works just fine with all the computers in the house, but,
>I cannot get a connection with xandros on the same network.
>
>any ideas?

I would start with the basics. Are you getting a network link? Did you
try using a new cable? Or use the same cable on another machine that is
known to work. Did you try setting a static IP address in Xandros? Did
you check the pertinent log files?

I only tried Xandros once two years ago just to see how windows-like it
was - it was pretty easy to configure and like windows but I am sure
they put logs in the usual place like /var/log/. You check the logs like
"messages" or "allmessages" or whatever it might be called.


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Apr  2 20:41:38 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 20:41:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704030141.l331fcM17183@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 45U Rack with sides, doors and accessories

45U rack with sides and doors

This is a plain 4-post rack with removable sides and doors. The rack does not have the latch plates attached to it, so the doors stay shut by pressure, one latch plate is included for future installation.

Comes with two small rackmount utility shelves, one pair of slide rails, two rackmount power strips and two cable management panels. Rack has three server rails installed. These are the simple L-bracket model.

86.5" x 31.5" x 23" exterior dimensions.

Rack can accomodate 29.5" depth.

$100

I also have two 4U ATX rackmount cases, $20 for one, bare, $40 for the other, with PS, Athlon XP 1500 CPU+mobo. Both are black in color. 

Seller Email address: rudie at sihope dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu  Mon Apr  2 21:19:27 2007
From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:19:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ntp and CST
In-Reply-To: <20070328170803.GG17401@iucha.net>
References: <fc40260f0703272011p2573e954ja1754ca0143f2af4@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272015y318953dctc18fc89cd74b1d09@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272019l37bf5396t6be24c3159d648e@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90703272021v62de8376sd87de8daf8a7ca0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703272024j7770c6fbp8ae6056ae87cf0ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305.216.17.75.74.1175058176.squirrel@www.krytosvirus.com>
	<101e49ea0703280612i3228876ax5cccd860a3ea8569@mail.gmail.com>
	<460A7C48.7050803@e-skinner.net>
	<1f663090703280914y3d720d29v82791acfb1a126b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<fc40260f0703280924x4ee51206q28749a07b36fb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070328170803.GG17401@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <1175566767.4179.5.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 12:08 -0500, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 11:24:57AM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote:
> > On 3/28/07, Rob Terhaar <robbyt at robbyt.net> wrote:
> > > ok can someone explain why just doing
> > > ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Chicago /etc/localtime
> > >
> > > is bad?
> > 
> > I've wondered the same thing in the past.  The best explanation I
> > could come up with is that if you're symlinking your tz file and have
> > /usr on a separate partition and that partition fails to mount
> > someday, things could get messy.
> 
> On Debian, some script that reads the /etc/localtime file runs before
> /usr is mounted, so even in the absence of failure, your time will be
> off.

Meh.  The system defaults to showing times in "UTC" if /etc/localtime is
broken or nonexistent, and I can live with that.

-- 
Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Apr  3 08:49:43 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 08:49:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
Message-ID: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>

Anyone know what the command via ssh would be to reload port forwarding on
an IPCop box?

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 09:42:21 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 09:42:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>

I assume you mean you want to flush the forward rules and reload them.
I suggest just reloading the entire iptables rule set:

/etc/rc.d/rc.firewall restart

That should work.

On 4/3/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> Anyone know what the command via ssh would be to reload port forwarding on
> an IPCop box?
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Apr  3 10:58:28 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:58:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4815.64.8.148.4.1175615908.squirrel@lctn.org>

> I assume you mean you want to flush the forward rules and reload them.
> I suggest just reloading the entire iptables rule set:
>
> /etc/rc.d/rc.firewall restart
>

I've tried that. You would think that would work, but it does not update
my changes unless I reboot, which I was hoping to avoid.

I tried restarting rc.firewall again, but no go.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Apr  3 12:27:02 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 12:27:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] reload port forwarding
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3584.64.8.148.4.1175608183.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<579c6fd30704030742q35261129p469fd44c46742515@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2779.64.8.148.4.1175621222.squirrel@lctn.org>

> I assume you mean you want to flush the forward rules and reload them.
> I suggest just reloading the entire iptables rule set:
>
> /etc/rc.d/rc.firewall restart
>
> That should work.


The command is:


/usr/local/bin/setportfw

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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Apr  3 18:41:06 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:41:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
Message-ID: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>

Guys,

What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
need be.

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From dave.dash at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 20:48:34 2007
From: dave.dash at gmail.com (Dave Dash)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:48:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>

I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer
related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they
charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.

If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick a
number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar
full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those
out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much
as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner
cutting you the check, so what do I know.

-d

On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
> small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
> Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
> need be.
>
> Thanks,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> 9x3n3Dw3htIu2xdcEH0QFKc=
> =qWUK
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Dave Dash
612.670.0621
Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
gtalk: dave.dash
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From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 22:05:43 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:05:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
	<694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90704032005i25c613c2o731287aaaff9971@mail.gmail.com>

This is a great question, and I hope more "guys" try to answer.  I've
recently been asked to name a price, after being interviewed about what I
could accomplish and how.  and I said uhhhhh, forty?  I wanted to say $100,
but I wanted the work, too.
My not great answer is something like:
- depends on the nature of the work and level of responsibility
follows to ->
- depends on how much you like or trust them --> back to #1
- depends on why you want to do it  --> and back to #1



On 4/3/07, Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer
> related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they
> charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.
>
> If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick
> a number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar
> full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those
> out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much
> as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner
> cutting you the check, so what do I know.
>
> -d
>
> On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
> > small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
> > Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
> > need be.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > florin
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> >       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFGEuYSND0rFCN2b1sRAplnAJ9bMKpb2z3sPN3Fw9e24I3MtIDvjgCfRyRK
> > 9x3n3Dw3htIu2xdcEH0QFKc=
> > =qWUK
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dave Dash
> 612.670.0621
> Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
> gtalk: dave.dash
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Apr  3 22:31:07 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:31:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
Message-ID: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From florin at iucha.net  Tue Apr  3 22:40:06 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:40:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <20070404034006.GK7284@iucha.net>

On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 10:31:07PM -0500, Jon Schewe wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

Indirectly it is for your protection, since your computer is less
useful as a drone/zombie thus slightly less attractive as a target.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Tue Apr  3 22:40:20 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:40:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
they never think to block 465.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman, Director
Systems Administration and Technical Operations
Supercomputing Institute                           <bropers at msi.umn.edu>
599 Walter Library                                   +1 612-626-5948 (V)
117 Pleasant Street S.E.                             +1 612-624-8861 (F)
University of Minnesota                               Twin Cities Campus
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0255                       http://www.msi.umn.edu/


From jeff at digitalguy.net  Tue Apr  3 22:47:53 2007
From: jeff at digitalguy.net (Jeffrey Lehman)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:47:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <46131FE9.1050900@digitalguy.net>

Jon Schewe wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>
>   
Both outgoing  and incoming SMTP work for me from Qwest land.


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Apr  3 23:03:36 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:03:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46132398.7020201@umn.edu>

Or an easier solution is to use a "smart host" which is your ISP's mail 
server acting as a forwarder when you're sending mail. The same mail 
server you use to send mail for your ISP e-mail account should work.

Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
>> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
>> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>>     
>
> This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> they never think to block 465.
>
>   



From jack at jacku.com  Tue Apr  3 23:05:39 2007
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:05:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070403234106.GJ7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <200704032305.40186.jack@jacku.com>

On Tuesday 03 April 2007 6:41 pm, Florin Iucha wrote:
> Guys,
>
> What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
> small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
> Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if
> need be.
>
> Thanks,
> florin

My advise, pick a number that you're comfortable with and be prepared to 
negotiate. The stated range of $25-$100 an hour isn't all that far off in my 
opinion. But I think in this market you can narrow it even further to 
$60-$75/hr. What I usually do (or did) is to have a couple of "official" 
rates. One for long term projects (ex. $65/hr), one for short term projects 
(ex. $100/hr) and usually I'll offer "non-profit" and "wholesale" discounts.  

For example if I'm doing some development or support work for a non-profit I 
might charge $50/hr instead of $65 depending on their budget. If I do a 
little sub-contracting I'll quote my higher rate but charge the main 
consultant the lower rate and let him pocket the difference.

Don't price yourself too cheap. If its a group with little or no money offer 
them a "special deal" if you want to do the work, but remember to value the 
time you'll spend doing it accurately. I remember a story a friend told me 
many years ago. He had a buddy who was charge $65/hr as a COBOL programmer. 
He had some work but not enough. He repackaged his resume and his services, 
doubled his rate to $125/hr and had more work then he could handle. At $65 he 
was just another COBOL programmer. At $125 he was a high powered Business 
Systems Analyst. You always want your high rate to be high enough to scare 
people off. If you've got somebody who wants you to take a gig you really 
don't want bid it outrageously high. If you're lucky they won't go with you 
because you're too expensive. If they do decide to use you then you know your 
making enough to "pay for the aggravation"  that will come with the job. 

Experience should be your determining factor. If you know the stuff inside and 
out and will be able to accomplish tasks quickly charge more. Let them know 
that your rate may be higher but you won't take as long as someone with a 
lower price and less experience. In the long run they will save money.

Okay I've rambled long enough on this. I hope people find it useful.

Jack

-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 23:11:12 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:11:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

Yes!  The bastards.  I just noticed this earlier this evening.  I
initially thought that it was an issue with my smtp provider, but when
it still didn't work several hours later, I became suspicious.

...all the more reason to consider switching to Qwest/IPhouse.

-erik


From thecubic at thecubic.net  Wed Apr  4 01:00:49 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 01:00:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>

I can still both initiate and recieve SMTP traffic from both of my Comcast 
(Eagan, Minneapolis) hosts.

I can't see this persisting too long.  A lot of people don't have or use 
Comcast accounts and this would be a dealbreaker.

They already monitor for email drones - I don't know why they would need this.

-Dave

On Tuesday 03 April 2007 22:31:07 Jon Schewe wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".


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From adam at askewview.net  Wed Apr  4 07:28:46 2007
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:28:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <461399FE.6070905@askewview.net>

When I used to work for Astound Broadband in St. Cloud (R.I.P) we had 
started doing this back in late '01. It really cut down in the number of 
complaints I received about spam coming from our IP blocks.
Yes its a total PITA for those of us who actually know what we are doing 
and want greater flexability/usability of our internet services but for 
the ISP and most of its idiotic virus infested Windows users it ends up 
being a good thing. Just think about the thousands of Windows drones 
that are no longer sending out crap tons of useless email.

Just my .02

-Adam


Dave Carlson wrote:
> I can still both initiate and recieve SMTP traffic from both of my Comcast 
> (Eagan, Minneapolis) hosts.
>
> I can't see this persisting too long.  A lot of people don't have or use 
> Comcast accounts and this would be a dealbreaker.
>
> They already monitor for email drones - I don't know why they would need this.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Tuesday 03 April 2007 22:31:07 Jon Schewe wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
>> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
>> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>>     
>
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From richart-it at marshacademy.com  Wed Apr  4 09:57:23 2007
From: richart-it at marshacademy.com (richart-it)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:57:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4613BCD3.5090407@marshacademy.com>

Hi all;
Just an observation, if you go to the mtu.net website, they mention they 
have been having trouble with people hacking on the email server. If you 
check out the "How to Access mtu.net", all connections use SSL. (the 
following is silly but should be noted) Check your emailer program and 
insure your smtp connection is using ssl and not TSL. I am using 
Thunderbird and when I click on the SSL option, the outgoing port 
switches from 25 to 465 (naturally!)

It could very well be that mtu.net has blocked port 25 ???
just a thought
=rich=

Erik Anderson wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
>> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
>> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>>     
>
> Yes!  The bastards.  I just noticed this earlier this evening.  I
> initially thought that it was an issue with my smtp provider, but when
> it still didn't work several hours later, I became suspicious.
>
> ...all the more reason to consider switching to Qwest/IPhouse.
>
> -erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>   




From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 09:09:01 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:09:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<fc40260f0704032111k641bc2a3o796cf7296ead2924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175695741.7493.117.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 23:11 -0500, Erik Anderson wrote:

> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> 
> Yes!  The bastards.  I just noticed this earlier this evening.  I
> initially thought that it was an issue with my smtp provider, but when
> it still didn't work several hours later, I became suspicious.
> 
> ...all the more reason to consider switching to Qwest/IPhouse.


Except that DSL is so much slower than cable modem and doesn't go quite
as far from the CO.

________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 09:08:22 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:08:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175695702.7493.115.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

I made my server listen on two ports now, but what about people that
don't have control over their mail servers?

On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 22:40 -0500, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:

> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> 
> This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> they never think to block 465.
> 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 09:09:51 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:09:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<200704040100.56224.thecubic@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <1175695791.7493.119.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

Good question.  I spoke with their online support last night and they
said this was to protect me from viruses.  I told them I don't need
their protection, but their supervisor said they can't turn off the
block.

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 01:00 -0500, Dave Carlson wrote:

> I can still both initiate and recieve SMTP traffic from both of my Comcast 
> (Eagan, Minneapolis) hosts.
> 
> I can't see this persisting too long.  A lot of people don't have or use 
> Comcast accounts and this would be a dealbreaker.
> 
> They already monitor for email drones - I don't know why they would need this.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> On Tuesday 03 April 2007 22:31:07 Jon Schewe wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> 
> 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 09:22:59 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404142259.64931.qmail@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

And there are some MTA's (the startrib.com one for instance) that refuse to accept mail from ISP client addresses.  The solution is to send the mail to the ISP's mailserver and let it route it.

I'm not defending the practice (either blocking or refusing ISP client connections), just listing a workaround.



"Brian D. Ropers-Huilman" <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote: On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe  wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
they never think to block 465.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman, Director
Systems Administration and Technical Operations
Supercomputing Institute                           

599 Walter Library                                   +1 612-626-5948 (V)
117 Pleasant Street S.E.                             +1 612-624-8861 (F)
University of Minnesota                               Twin Cities Campus
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0255                       http://www.msi.umn.edu/

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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From amazingpowersofobservation at comcast.net  Wed Apr  4 09:36:01 2007
From: amazingpowersofobservation at comcast.net (amazing)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:36:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4613B7D1.9000300@comcast.net>

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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 09:58:09 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5% for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to an hourly charge.
 
 Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
 
 I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.

At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.

Dave Dash <dave.dash at gmail.com> wrote: I've seen people charge anywhere from $25-100/hr for various computer related consulting.  Unfortunately nobody likes to share how much they charge as it tends to be a not for public consumption.  

If I weren't already doing some consulting (albeit on the side), I'd pick a number between $25-100 that is more than what I'd be making at a similar full time or even contract gig (and you can call recruiters to find those out).  Then just keep to that.  But really the rate doesn't matter so much as the quality of service.... of course, I'm not the small business owner cutting you the check, so what do I know. 

-d

On 4/3/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote: Guys,

What are some good resources on consulting rates?  I'm talking to a
small business owner about Linux support and consulting for their shop.
Mainly remote troubleshooting, with bulk work during weekends, if 
need be.

Thanks,
florin

--
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163

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_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 





-- 
Dave Dash
612.670.0621
Discover your favorite restaurant: reviewsby.us
gtalk: dave.dash _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40?  Find a flick in no time
 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Apr  4 10:40:06 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Review)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:40:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Review
Message-ID: <200704041540.l34Fe6I19363@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Review 

Category: Training and Certifications

Subject: Linux Training Promotion

Collier computing is currently running a Linux Training Promotion. The Promotion details are; purchase one class at retail price and get the second class of equal or lesser value at half price.

The Linux Training Promotion is effective from 4/3/07 to 6/30/07.

To register for a class and take advantage of the Linux Training Promotion or if you have additional question about the promotion, please contact Collier Computing Education group and ask for Sara Ross at 651-631-2325 Extension 107 or Tim Dailey at 612-384-9955.

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/reviews/index.cgi



From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:08:46 2007
From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:08:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <be48c3340704040908k4844db82jecd924a7eff54cab@mail.gmail.com>

I was blocked last week, so moved my SMTP to google hosting.  Free,
and good enough (for my use).  I'm still hosting my web sites at home
though.  This should also get me off of (most) SMTP blacklists.

Ron

On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
> Society
> Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
> signature.
> See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>


-- 
http://ronspace.org/


From jwhitenews at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:20:10 2007
From: jwhitenews at gmail.com (Jeremy White)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:20:10 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
Message-ID: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output
of the application ps.

Thanks

Jeremy
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From brockn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:37:50 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:37:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704040937j321d472bq87c4b6d9226f17ee@mail.gmail.com>

What options do you use to get that output?

On 4/4/07, Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output
> of the application ps.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr  4 11:42:13 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:42:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:20:10PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
> I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output
> of the application ps.

Jeremy,

I don't remember seeing a "[,]" in the ps output.  Can you give a
screen snapshot including the ps command line itself?  You can blind
any sensitive data.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:48:33 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:48:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
>
> This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> they never think to block 465.

Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
sending from outside your LAN).

-jth


From jwhitenews at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:53:44 2007
From: jwhitenews at gmail.com (Jeremy White)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:53:44 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>

UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]


On 4/4/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:20:10PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
> > I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen
> output
> > of the application ps.
>
> Jeremy,
>
> I don't remember seeing a "[,]" in the ps output.  Can you give a
> screen snapshot including the ps command line itself?  You can blind
> any sensitive data.
>
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> WX78jfrl2kGe9h1j5T+Fsn4=
> =HKUk
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From brockn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 11:58:15 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:58:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040950g7cf15895k15457186493f5785@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
	<741dcbb80704040937j321d472bq87c4b6d9226f17ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<7454a0c30704040950g7cf15895k15457186493f5785@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704040958n63c55b1cwf2c6131df04f5121@mail.gmail.com>

Ahh you mean, [something].... Not sure why ps does that.

Do you mean defunct?  If a process is defunct, it says defunct next to it.

Brock

On 4/4/07, Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote:
> here is a screen shot:
>
> UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
> root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
> root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
> root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
> root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
> root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
> root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
> root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
> root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
> root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
> root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
> root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]
>
> The reason that I asking is someone I work with says that the brackets mean
> the processes are orphaned.  There is noway the brackets mean that.  Thanks
> for your help.
>
> On 4/4/07, Brock Noland <brockn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What options do you use to get that output?
> >
> > On 4/4/07, Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen
> output
> > > of the application ps.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://free-sailboat-listings.com
> > http://spamdefeator.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 12:06:39 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:06:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 11:48 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> > On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no longer able to send
> > > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is blocking all
> > > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".
> >
> > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> > they never think to block 465.
> 
> Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
> your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
> everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
> only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
> 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
> sending from outside your LAN).

I think that's what got me into trouble in the first place as comcast
was seeing a lot of mail traffic going through their server because I'm
the backup MX for mtu.net.  They are blocking all traffic both to and
from port 25 on my machine.


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr  4 12:11:14 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:11:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
	<7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404171114.GP7284@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:53:44PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
> UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
> root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
> root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
> root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
> root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
> root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
> root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
> root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
> root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
> root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
> root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
> root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]

Oh, _those_ brackets.  Those processes are kernel threads.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jonathan.kline at isaidno.net  Wed Apr  4 12:08:14 2007
From: jonathan.kline at isaidno.net (Jonathan Kline)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:08:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>	<20070404164213.GO7284@iucha.net>
	<7454a0c30704040953v4fecf746vc6dc93a189f71988@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4613DB7E.5040004@isaidno.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Kernel Threads.

Jeremy White wrote:
> UID        PID  PPID  C STIME TTY          TIME CMD
> root         1     0  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 init [2]
> root         2     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [keventd]
> root         3     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
> root         4     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kswapd]
> root         5     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [bdflush]
> root         6     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [kupdated]
> root        18     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_0]
> root        19     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [scsi_eh_1]
> root        49     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:02 [kjournald]
> root       350     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 udevd
> root       467     1  0 Feb21 ?        00:00:00 [khubd]
> 
> 
> On 4/4/07, *Florin Iucha* <florin at iucha.net <mailto:florin at iucha.net>>
> wrote:
> 
>     On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:20:10PM +0000, Jeremy White wrote:
>     > I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the
>     screen output
>     > of the application ps.
> 
>     Jeremy,
> 
>     I don't remember seeing a "[,]" in the ps output.  Can you give a
>     screen snapshot including the ps command line itself?  You can blind
>     any sensitive data.
> 
>     florin
> 
>     --
>     Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>            http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> 
>     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>     Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> 
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>     WX78jfrl2kGe9h1j5T+Fsn4=
>     =HKUk
>     -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 12:16:38 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ps question
In-Reply-To: <7454a0c30704040920j61c60a3at1d427afe3c1cdc08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404171638.95791.qmail@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That's a starbase 8{)>

(most of you are too young to remember).

Jeremy White <jwhitenews at gmail.com> wrote: I am looking for an explanation of what the "[,]" mean in the screen output of the application ps.
 
 Thanks
 
 Jeremy
 _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
 Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
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From swaite at sbn-services.com  Wed Apr  4 12:54:46 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:54:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>

I was always under the impression anyways that ISPs like Comcast did 
not allow any servers to be run period.

Ironically I started using my own e-mail server way back when 
Mediaone/RoadRunner/AT&T/Comcast kept changing ownership so often I 
could not rely on having an e-mail address remain current for more than a 
year. I did get contacted at one point from I believe AT&T asking me if 
I was running a server, and if so to inform me I was breaking the TOS. Never 


responded back, and they were soon sold to Comcast or whoever after. In my 
opinion, if they did not keep changing the *#&@ domain name for e-mail 
so often, I am sure a few would not bother to run their own e-mail.

I think the lesson of the story is services like 

Comcast are just not reliable for anything. I know Comcast is one company 
that reportedly will monitor bandwidth, and if yours is excessive they will 
contact you on this, which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my 
opinion. Especially with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.



-----Original Message-----

From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>

To: "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com>

Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:06:39 -0500

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 11:48 -0500, John T. Hoffoss wrote:

> On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> 
wrote:

> > On 4/3/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> > > Has anyone else run across this?  As of today I'm no 
longer able to send

> > > mail through my mailserver (mtu.net) port 25 as comcast is 
blocking all

> > > outgoing connections on port 25 for "my protection".

> >

> > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail



> > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your 

MTA

> > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS 
as

> > they never think to block 465.

> 

> Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure

> your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and

> everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that



> only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block

> 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving 
(or

> sending from outside your LAN).



I think that's what got me into trouble in the first place as comcast

was seeing a lot of mail traffic going through their server because I'm

the backup MX for mtu.net.  They are blocking all traffic both to 
and

from port 25 on my machine.





________________________________________________________________________



Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe [http://mtu.net/%7Ejpschewe]

Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia

Society

Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe 
[http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe]

If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital

signature.

See http://www.gnupg.org [http://www.gnupg.org/] 
for more information.
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 12:59:11 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:59:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704041059x12a5144cy295283e18f6cb20d@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>
> which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my opinion. Especially
> with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.

Not to thread-jack, but what's the current status of the municipal
wifi project anyway?

-erik


From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Wed Apr  4 13:10:50 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:10:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480704041110k73a23618vfd374eafe149b2d2@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/07, John T. Hoffoss <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> > they never think to block 465.
>
> Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
> your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
> everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
> only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
> 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
> sending from outside your LAN).

Yes, there is some confusion here. I was assuming he has some mail
agent trying to send a message (whether a client or an MTA). As has
been hashed out here, most ISPs only allow :25 traffic to pass to
their own servers. For many people this is just fine, but some people
want their mail to come from their own MTAs. With :25 "blocked," the
only other solution is to point to another port. For example, my
Alpine client can quite happily send mail directly through my MSI
servers via :465.

If, however, the situation is that he's running his own mail server at
home, then, yes, things are quite different. He's explained that he's
an MX for mtu.net and I do not see any clear solution to him running
an SMTP on a box in his home.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 13:23:30 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:23:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704041059x12a5144cy295283e18f6cb20d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070404182330.83444.qmail@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://www.usinternet.com/wireless/
http://www.usinternet.com/pdf/WirelessMapTimeline_Jan07.pdf

According to the pdf file, I have to wait till August 30th.

Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote: On 4/4/07, Sean Waite  wrote:
>
> which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my opinion. Especially
> with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.

Not to thread-jack, but what's the current status of the municipal
wifi project anyway?

-erik

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 
---------------------------------
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  4 13:49:18 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:49:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704041110k73a23618vfd374eafe149b2d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0e11c480704041110k73a23618vfd374eafe149b2d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1175712558.7493.188.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 13:10 -0500, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:
> On 4/4/07, John T. Hoffoss <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 4/3/07, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:
> > > This is a fairly common practice to prevent you from using mail
> > > servers that are not their own. One easy solution is to setup your MTA
> > > to listen on another port (I've used 2525) or to send via SSL/TLS as
> > > they never think to block 465.
> >
> > Well, he said outgoing. The "proper" way to do this is to configure
> > your MTA to relay your mail to your comcast SMTP server, and
> > everything will work just great. You can still use SSL/TLS, but that
> > only fixes stuff for incoming. And IIRC, Comcast shouldn't block
> > 25/tcp into your server, so it should not interfere with receiving (or
> > sending from outside your LAN).
> 
> Yes, there is some confusion here. I was assuming he has some mail
> agent trying to send a message (whether a client or an MTA). As has
> been hashed out here, most ISPs only allow :25 traffic to pass to
> their own servers. For many people this is just fine, but some people
> want their mail to come from their own MTAs. With :25 "blocked," the
> only other solution is to point to another port. For example, my
> Alpine client can quite happily send mail directly through my MSI
> servers via :465.
Yes, one reason for needing to send mail through another outside server
are mailman lists that check the from and if it doesn't match up, reject
the message.  Sending all of my mail through smtp.comcast.net would
cause this problem.  Allowing my mailserver to accept mail messages on
another port has allowed me to get around this problem.  Is it just the
case that now everyone that uses mailing lists sends mail through the
ISP's servers (and thus uses that address for subscription) or uses some
type of web based email?  This assumes that the population that would
like to use an alternate email address and doesn't run their own
mailserver is somewhat large.

> If, however, the situation is that he's running his own mail server at
> home, then, yes, things are quite different. He's explained that he's
> an MX for mtu.net and I do not see any clear solution to him running
> an SMTP on a box in his home.
This is the second problem.  There hasn't been enough traffic to draw
attention to myself, probably because I was using mtu.net as my smart
host.  Now that I switched it to help on some other issues comcast has
noticed and I need to rethink where to host the secondary MX.  My
ability to send email apparently has been collateral damage. 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From jeff at digitalguy.net  Wed Apr  4 15:14:51 2007
From: jeff at digitalguy.net (Jeffrey Lehman)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:14:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <4614073B.2030001@digitalguy.net>

Sean Waite wrote:
> I think the lesson of the story is services like Comcast are just not 
> reliable for anything. I know Comcast is one company that reportedly 
> will monitor bandwidth, and if yours is excessive they will contact 
> you on this, which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my 
> opinion. Especially with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.
I've had no problems whatsoever with my Comcast service and I've been 
with them for about 5 years now.  I've been at my current residence for 
over 2 years and my IP has not changed once!  I run several services 
(web,mail,ssh,etc) and haven't been notified by them once, although I 
think running "servers" is against their TOS.

Jeff


From nate at refried.org  Wed Apr  4 16:25:38 2007
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:25:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast blocking port25
In-Reply-To: <4614073B.2030001@digitalguy.net>
References: <1175657467.7493.109.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<f0e11c480704032040wac01b07t472559947809f524@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704040948y6efb10f0qc9c41a1042f80bc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<1175706399.7493.170.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704041254.AA54460035@sbn-services.com>
	<4614073B.2030001@digitalguy.net>
Message-ID: <20070404212538.GA10297@refried.org>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 03:14:51PM -0500, Jeffrey Lehman wrote:
> Sean Waite wrote:
> > I think the lesson of the story is services like Comcast are just not 
> > reliable for anything. I know Comcast is one company that reportedly 
> > will monitor bandwidth, and if yours is excessive they will contact 
> > you on this, which kind of defeats the purpose of broadband in my 
> > opinion. Especially with the cities doing their own wireless shortly.
> I've had no problems whatsoever with my Comcast service and I've been 
> with them for about 5 years now.  I've been at my current residence for 
> over 2 years and my IP has not changed once!  I run several services 
> (web,mail,ssh,etc) and haven't been notified by them once, although I 
> think running "servers" is against their TOS.

I remember people telling me that when I was on Comcast years ago.  They
would always send me a link to the FAQ that said that, yet there were no
links _to_ that page on their web site.  There was language in the AUP
stating that as long as running the services didn't affect the quality
of service of other customers, it was okay.

That was back around the MediaOne to AT&T Broadband transition.  I'm
happily on DSL w/ Visi now.</plug>

Nate


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr  4 16:56:25 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:56:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] qemu + tap, one way only?
Message-ID: <20070404215625.GQ7284@iucha.net>

Guys,

I am trying to get a network going between the host and a qemu guest,
using the tap device.  I can ping from guest to host and from host to
guest, but I can only ssh from guest to host!  Ssh from host to guest
fails with

   # ssh 172.20.0.10
   ssh: connect to host 172.20.0.10 port 22: No route to host
   # ping 172.20.0.10
   PING 172.20.0.10 (172.20.0.10) 56(84) bytes of data.
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.625 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.10: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.447 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.10: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.501 ms

   # route -n
   Kernel IP routing table
   Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
   aa.bb.cc.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.254.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
   169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 eth0
   172.20.0.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 tap0
   0.0.0.0         aa.bb.cc.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0
   # ifconfig tap0
   tap0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr FA:4B:BC:51:B4:50  
             inet addr:172.20.0.1  Bcast:172.20.255.255  Mask:255.255.0.0

On the guest:

   # ping 172.20.0.1
   PING 172.20.0.1 (172.20.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.625 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.447 ms
   64 bytes from 172.20.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.501 ms

   # route -n
   Kernel IP routing table
   Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
   172.20.0.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 eth0
   0.0.0.0         172.20.0.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0

The 172.20.0.x addresses are what the tapX devices are using by default. 
This is on Ubuntu 7.04 with the uml-utilities package.

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From robbyt at robbyt.net  Wed Apr  4 17:26:55 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:26:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5%
> for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed
> monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to
> an hourly charge.
>
>  Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term
> contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
>
>  I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.
>
> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I
> later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They
> were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.

one thing that you have to understand is, that having an employee is a
lot more expensive then just paying their salary. Things like SS,
benefits, etc.. aren't free- and your employer has to pay quite a bit
more to the State to have you on as a full-time employee.

If they were paying you $30/hr, i bet your overall cost to them was
closer to $45-50/hr


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Apr  4 20:10:30 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:10:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46144C86.9020109@e-skinner.net>

i have done a lot of consulting on the side for the past 4 years, and 
have always been able to charge $150 an hour.  not sure if that is my 
RHCE defending that rate or if i've just gotten lucky.  i think it 
depends a lot on the "size" of the client. 

Rob Terhaar wrote:
> On 4/4/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> What I did was take what I was making as a full time developer, add in 7.5%
>> for the self employment taxes, Another 6% for vacation/sick and then a fixed
>> monthly charge for insurance, etc if you need to.  Then split this all up to
>> an hourly charge.
>>
>>  Remember that there is always down time between contracts, so short term
>> contracts need to charge more for the between the gaps overhead.
>>
>>  I was charging $72/hr for short term and $60 long term YMMV.
>>
>> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) and I
>> later found out the contract house was charging the client $75/hr.  They
>> were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.
>>     
>
> one thing that you have to understand is, that having an employee is a
> lot more expensive then just paying their salary. Things like SS,
> benefits, etc.. aren't free- and your employer has to pay quite a bit
> more to the State to have you on as a full-time employee.
>
> If they were paying you $30/hr, i bet your overall cost to them was
> closer to $45-50/hr
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Apr  4 21:25:29 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:25:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] consulting rates?
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694fa1450704031848w75bfde39mab703be4bde2f0b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070404145809.70927.qmail@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1f663090704041526v7a7e3436q853bf2be0f4d2f74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704042119590.26674@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 4 Apr 2007, Rob Terhaar wrote:

> On 4/4/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> At one point I was working for a contract house (at $30/hr + benefits) 
>> and I later found out the contract house was charging the client 
>> $75/hr.  They were making a VERY nice profit on my labor.
>
> one thing that you have to understand is, that having an employee is a 
> lot more expensive then just paying their salary. Things like SS, 
> benefits, etc.. aren't free- and your employer has to pay quite a bit 
> more to the State to have you on as a full-time employee.
>
> If they were paying you $30/hr, i bet your overall cost to them was 
> closer to $45-50/hr


At the U, for most employees, we add about 1/3 to the salary to get the 
total cost.  So $30/hr salary would cost $40/hr to a research grant.

No matter what the truth is, we all agree that the contract house had a 
very nice profit margin.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr  5 09:46:33 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:46:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] qemu + tap, one way only?
In-Reply-To: <20070404215625.GQ7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070404215625.GQ7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <20070405144632.GT7284@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 04:56:25PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote:
> I am trying to get a network going between the host and a qemu guest,
> using the tap device.  I can ping from guest to host and from host to
> guest, but I can only ssh from guest to host!  Ssh from host to guest
> fails with
> 
>    # ssh 172.20.0.10
>    ssh: connect to host 172.20.0.10 port 22: No route to host

D'oh!

There was a firewall in the guest.  But the error message sure was
confusing...

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 11:44:02 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:44:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all-

Considering getting a new laptop.  I have a very small business with a
handful of clients -  windows some Mac end users and linux/windows
servers.  My old dell is getting to be a PIA - it weighs a ton, it's
slow, it's loud, slight pressure on the palm rest causes mouse/touch
pad to go nuts sometimes.

As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
caught my eye....

Now the pricing on these Mac books really is holding me back - I can
swing the price now but on the flip side, I can get a PC laptop and a
couple of years later get another all  for less than the 1 Mac -
sigh...

Wondering if anyone else uses a Mac for businessy type stuff and what
they like and don't like.

Thanks


From wilson at visi.com  Thu Apr  5 12:11:11 2007
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:11:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>

On Apr 5, 2007, at 11:44 AM, John Meier wrote:

> As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> caught my eye....

I use a 15" MacBook Pro all the time and the only thing I'll add is  
that I prefer Parallels to BootCamp. If you don't need 3D  
acceleration (I'm not a gamer) then Parallels will do everything you  
need. And the Parallels developers have been talking about improving  
the 3D performance in future versions.

My MBP runs Ubuntu very well. I have 2 GB RAM and I've even had OS X,  
Windows XP, and Ubuntu all running simultaneously just for the heck  
of it. Switch into full-screen mode and you'd be hard-pressed to  
notice that you're running in a VM.

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto: wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog and podcast: http:// 
technosavvy.org


From tclug at beitsahour.net  Thu Apr  5 12:26:02 2007
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:26:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>

John Meier writes:

> As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> caught my eye....

Go for it,

> Now the pricing on these Mac books really is holding me back - I can
> swing the price now but on the flip side, I can get a PC laptop and a
> couple of years later get another all  for less than the 1 Mac -
> sigh...

comparing a MacBook Pro with a Dell Inspiron is not a valid comparison, a 
Dell Latitude D820(because it has a 15" screen) with a Core2 Duo(2.16 GHz), 
1GB RAM, 120GB HDD, XP Pro SP2(or Vista) DVD writer and so forth comes to 
about $2k, which is the same for a MBP.

So, when comparing laptops it is best to compare similar offerings.

> Wondering if anyone else uses a Mac for businessy type stuff and what
> they like and don't like.

I use it for businessy stuff, at first i had it partitioned 3 ways intending 
to install Linux and Windows XP on it. Over time i gave up on installing 
windows, i really have no need to and if i ever do then there is always 
parallels or VNC.

And i gave up on installing Linux on it as well, between iterm and 
darwin-ports there really is no need for it. If i ever need to run a 
Linux application there is always X forwarding.

What i dont like though is that sometimes, just sometimes it does not wake 
up from sleep properly, i can see the mouse curser but the screen remains 
dim. I've found that closing the lid, waiting a couple of seconds and 
openings it again fixes it but it is still annoying. In my research and 
experimentation i've found that it is related to the encrypted home 
directories and the requirement to enter a password when waking up.


From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 12:35:15 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:35:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 12:30 -0500, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
> Personally, I would stay away from Macbooks. My iBook G4 just went dead,
> and I had already had major work done on it a year ago. A friend of mine
> has had to have her iBook replaced with a Macbook and has now had to
> return that Macbook to apple for repairs. Opening up a macintosh laptop
> you see shoddy workmanship and wires that have cut sheathing. But this
> is just anecdotal experience, from a couple of users. 
> 
> Since my iBook just died, I, too, am in the market for a laptop. I'm
> pretty convinced that Sony is the way to go. I've owned a Vaio before
> and it never caused me any problems. Though I am still researching the
> issue.
> 
> Benjamin
> 
> On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 12:11 -0500, Tim Wilson wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 2007, at 11:44 AM, John Meier wrote:
> > 
> > > As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> > > leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> > > amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> > > Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> > > caught my eye....
> > 
> > I use a 15" MacBook Pro all the time and the only thing I'll add is  
> > that I prefer Parallels to BootCamp. If you don't need 3D  
> > acceleration (I'm not a gamer) then Parallels will do everything you  
> > need. And the Parallels developers have been talking about improving  
> > the 3D performance in future versions.
> > 
> > My MBP runs Ubuntu very well. I have 2 GB RAM and I've even had OS X,  
> > Windows XP, and Ubuntu all running simultaneously just for the heck  
> > of it. Switch into full-screen mode and you'd be hard-pressed to  
> > notice that you're running in a VM.
> > 
> > -Tim
> > 



From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr  5 12:51:57 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:51:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>

On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 12:35:15PM -0500, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
> > Since my iBook just died, I, too, am in the market for a laptop. I'm
> > pretty convinced that Sony is the way to go. I've owned a Vaio before
> > and it never caused me any problems. Though I am still researching the
> > issue.

Sony is a very proprietary company and quite Linux-unfriendly (the
laptops might have hardware for which there are no drivers; the PS[23]
is a different matter).

I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
lightest laptops in it's [business] class.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From rwh at visi.com  Thu Apr  5 12:57:20 2007
From: rwh at visi.com (rwh)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:57:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46153880.9040508@visi.com>

John Meier wrote:
> Hi all-
> 
> Considering getting a new laptop.  I have a very small business with a
> handful of clients -  windows some Mac end users and linux/windows
> servers.  My old dell is getting to be a PIA - it weighs a ton, it's
> slow, it's loud, slight pressure on the palm rest causes mouse/touch
> pad to go nuts sometimes.
> 
> As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> caught my eye....
> 

I use VMWare on Windows to run Linux and on Linux to run Windows. I
think you'll find Parallels more interesting than Bootcamp.

> Now the pricing on these Mac books really is holding me back - I can
> swing the price now but on the flip side, I can get a PC laptop and a
> couple of years later get another all  for less than the 1 Mac -
> sigh...
> 

Apple has been running a lot of the MacBook Pro stuff through their
refurbished outlet which drops the price a bit. It looks like they're
knocking $500 - $800 off the 17" right now. Same warranty as new,
eligible for the service plan, etc.

You might also consider the 15". I'm using an old G4 iBook as my main
laptop (same deal on ditching the Dell) and I have monitor spanning
enabled. It links the 14" screen seamlessly with an external 19" panel.
I can live with the 14" screen when I'm away from home and the 19"
becomes the main work area when I'm home. I think the iBook can go up to
1600x1200 or better so it could drive a 24" wide screen. I would expect
that the MB and MB Pro are at least as good on the low and and much
better for the Pro level.

> Wondering if anyone else uses a Mac for businessy type stuff and what
> they like and don't like.
> 

When I ditched the Inspiron (using Ubuntu) and switched to the iBook I
wasn't sure it was up to being my main machine. After a couple of months
I find I rarely use the Dell Desktop (also running Ubuntu) except as a
backup server.

My plan was to switch to a new Intel MB Pro at the end of the summer
when Apple runs their "back to school" special and Leopard has been
release. Lately I've been leaning more towards going cheaper and
grabbing a straight Macbook and an iMac.

The other thing that's nice about the Macs is that the battery life is
actually useful. Even when it was new the Dell would rarely make it to 2
hours. The iBook routinely gets 4 hours, even with the wireless running.

> Thanks
> 

Let us know what you decide.

--rick


From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 13:51:50 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:51:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>

> I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
> with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
> resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
> the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
> lightest laptops in it's [business] class.

Regarding the Thinkpad, have things changed now that it is being made by
Lenovo. I initially looked at Thinkpads, but I know that Lenovo only has
rights to the name for a short while. Will support end for it as well?

Thank you for your reply,

benjamin



From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu Apr  5 14:30:11 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:30:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop>
	<1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
	<1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <46154E43.6000805@e-skinner.net>

i too have a T60 - running FC6 and RHEL 5 on it.  works great - even the 
finger print scanner :)

the thinkpads "made by lenova" look and feel just like the "made by ibm" 
models.

my coworkers use one of many thinkpad types - t60, x60, t4x.  they also 
like the mbp's as mentioned earlier.

now that novell has joined the dark side, ibm/lenova seems to be making 
sure there laptops work with RHEL/FC6, etc much better out of the box. 
if we could only get ATI to release 100% open source drivers!



Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
>> I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
>> with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
>> resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
>> the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
>> lightest laptops in it's [business] class.
>>     
>
> Regarding the Thinkpad, have things changed now that it is being made by
> Lenovo. I initially looked at Thinkpads, but I know that Lenovo only has
> rights to the name for a short while. Will support end for it as well?
>
> Thank you for your reply,
>
> benjamin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 14:49:19 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:49:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <46154E43.6000805@e-skinner.net>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net> <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
	<46154E43.6000805@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <1175802559.7602.17.camel@desktop>

I'm just doing some research and I came across this website that may be
of interest to some on the list:

http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1





From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Apr  5 14:57:14 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 14:57:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
Message-ID: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

I built my parents a generic kubuntu distribution about 6 months
ago using scrapped hardware I found.  Now that decision has come to
bite me in the rear and they are having some odd problem that I
can't diagnose nor do I have the time to tinker endlessly with it.
I think it's memory related based on some log messages but memtest86
 ran overnight with no errors. So, I'm getting a nice shiny (but
basic) new system from General Nanosystems and I'm hoping that I can
basically swap in the existing system's hard drive, boot into
console, reconfigure xorg (new video card) and go.  Has anyone done
something like this and lived to tell about it?  One problem I
could see is making sure to use the same IDE channel so the drives
don't get different names.  Any other snags Ishould be aware of?  

Thanks!

Josh


From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Apr  5 15:04:41 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:04:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1216.1175801475.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1216.1175801475.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4408.168.86.12.2.1175803481.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

I'm running FC6 on my T60 as well. Works great (but I still have to
configure the 3D desktop). There are reports it will run MacOS X too.

Lenovo now makes the ThinkPads and while their laptops with the Lenovo
brand are more-cheaply made, the ThinkPad brand is still a premium
machine. You can get a lot of community support (www.thinkwiki.org,
forum.thinkpads.com, ThinkPad mailing list), download specification and
repair manuals, and parts are widely available and reasonably priced.

I've had a dozen or so ThinkPads ('486 to Core Duo) and have never
regretted buying one. It's all I'll buy or let my wife get (because I have
to maintain it).

FWIW, IBM still sells used, warranted ThinkPads and you can get a good
deal from them. Lenovo offers educational discounts through schools.

Chris





From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 15:25:03 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:25:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
In-Reply-To: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30704051325u1e361025sb01eece755a7b74f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/07, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> console, reconfigure xorg (new video card) and go.  Has anyone done
> something like this and lived to tell about it?  One problem I
> could see is making sure to use the same IDE channel so the drives
> don't get different names.  Any other snags Ishould be aware of?

I've done thi s a few times and as long as the hardware is well
supported there seem to be very few problems.

The one problem I've run into several times is that the system won't
boot because the hard drive controller is different and the initrd
image cannot mount the root/boot partition. In this situation you need
to boot to a live cd and mount the old system so you can rebuild the
initrd image with the proper module.

Hopefully, after you get the kernel loaded and the root partition is
mounted, the hardware detection in kubuntu should take care of the
rest as long as the hardware is pretty standard. I've only done this
with Redhat/Fedora/CentOS systems and Kudzu is very good at detecting
and configuring hardware. Not sure how well (edu|ku|xu|u)buntu will
handle this.


From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Thu Apr  5 15:34:26 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:34:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
In-Reply-To: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480704051334t11226b3by31bfed403886844f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/07, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
>  ran overnight with no errors. So, I'm getting a nice shiny (but
> basic) new system from General Nanosystems and I'm hoping that I can
> basically swap in the existing system's hard drive, boot into
> console, reconfigure xorg (new video card) and go.  Has anyone done
> something like this and lived to tell about it?  One problem I
> could see is making sure to use the same IDE channel so the drives
> don't get different names.  Any other snags Ishould be aware of?

I would do a fresh install of Kubuntu v7.04 and then use a handy-dandy
cross-over cable and use your ol' friend rsync to synchronize their
/home and that's it. A new box with all their stuff. I've done this
myself for the past 10 years that I've been using Linux as I move
between new desktops and laptops both at work and home. Works like a
charm.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman, Director
Systems Administration and Technical Operations
Supercomputing Institute                           <bropers at msi.umn.edu>
599 Walter Library                                   +1 612-626-5948 (V)
117 Pleasant Street S.E.                             +1 612-624-8861 (F)
University of Minnesota                               Twin Cities Campus
Minneapolis, MN 55455-0255                       http://www.msi.umn.edu/


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Apr  5 15:52:10 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:52:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704051334t11226b3by31bfed403886844f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<f0e11c480704051334t11226b3by31bfed403886844f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070405155210.208942ef.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>

On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 15:34:26 -0500
"Brian D. Ropers-Huilman" <brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:

> On 4/5/07, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> >  ran overnight with no errors. So, I'm getting a nice shiny (but
> > basic) new system from General Nanosystems and I'm hoping that
> > I can basically swap in the existing system's hard drive, boot
> > into console, reconfigure xorg (new video card) and go.  Has
> > anyone done something like this and lived to tell about it?
> > One problem I could see is making sure to use the same IDE
> > channel so the drives don't get different names.  Any other
> > snags Ishould be aware of?
> 
> I would do a fresh install of Kubuntu v7.04 and then use a
> handy-dandy cross-over cable and use your ol' friend rsync to
> synchronize their /home and that's it. A new box with all their
> stuff. I've done this myself for the past 10 years that I've been
> using Linux as I move between new desktops and laptops both at
> work and home. Works like a charm.

Hmm - new system is coming without a hard drive - pretty much a
case with power supply, mobo, memory and CD drive.  I'm sure I'll
end up at that route if it doesn't look like it'll work. We'll know
this weekend I guess...

Thanks for the suggestions,

Josh


From samir.list at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 16:12:42 2007
From: samir.list at gmail.com (Samir Faci)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:12:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
In-Reply-To: <20070405155210.208942ef.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<f0e11c480704051334t11226b3by31bfed403886844f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070405155210.208942ef.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1e6142750704051412x599fc717l499cc60c5e95b63e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

   I know this is late notice, but I just found out about this mailing list
recently.  We're having an Open Source/Free software conference this Friday
and Saturday.  If anyone from tclug has an interest in attending, please
feel free to come by.  There is a schedule of events on the main page.
Please note that the event is free if you register online, there is a
seperate registration for the IBM social and the hack-a-thon.


--
Samir Faci
UIC LUG President
---- Blog extract from main website --
Question to the world of Free and Open Source Software: What are my
prospects when I graduate?
As many of you know by now, for the last few months here at UIC*, we - the
ACM* and g/LUG*,- have been eagerly working to put together a conference to
discus FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) as an engine of innovation.
The Flourish Conf. will take place next 6-7 of April at the University of
Illinois at Chicago.
I am a self confessed gnu/Linux user, I love gnu/Linux, free software and
even open source - sorry RMS!. I am also a CS student at the University of
Illinois at Chicago, and curiously enough, even though most of our curricula
is done in Unix - we even have 2 RedHat labs here, - it appears as if none
of the big players within FLOSS ever come to hire at UIC. Why is that
Microsoft comes here semester after semester snatching some of the most
brilliant students on campus? Yet, I have yet to see FLOSS big players to
come out here looking for people.

These has made me wonder: Is there a professional future in FLOSS? ....
... and I know I'm not alone in my wonders.

To answer these questions, we have invited quite a few of really smart
people from different organizations: Google, IBM, Red Hat, and the FSF, and
we are going to have a a chance to hear about the opportunities that FLOSS
has to offer for our future.
We will have two panels, a talk on GPL v3, a talk on Google's contribution
and use of FLOSS, among many other really interesting talks, etc. We have
also put together a series of technical talks on FLOSS related technologies
and topics, and a couple other really interesting activities to give
attendees a chance to meet and to be met: Friday's Social mixer, and
Saturday's Hack-a-Thon.
This is not only going to be a great time for students around Chicago, this
is going to be a great chance for community members, and companies to come
together and explore how FLOSS is shaping up our future!

Come and join us!

Roberto C. Serrano
g/LUG @ UIC vice-president
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From samir.list at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 16:13:24 2007
From: samir.list at gmail.com (Samir Faci)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:13:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Flourish Conference...
Message-ID: <1e6142750704051413r7d4f089bk4688a718244a7cf3@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the double post, forgot to change the subject line.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Samir Faci <samir.list at gmail.com>
Date: Apr 5, 2007 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Hi all,

   I know this is late notice, but I just found out about this mailing list
recently.  We're having an Open Source/Free software conference this Friday
and Saturday.  If anyone from tclug has an interest in attending, please
feel free to come by.  There is a schedule of events on the main page.
Please note that the event is free if you register online, there is a
seperate registration for the IBM social and the hack-a-thon.


--
Samir Faci
UIC LUG President
---- Blog extract from main website --
Question to the world of Free and Open Source Software: What are my
prospects when I graduate?
As many of you know by now, for the last few months here at UIC*, we - the
ACM* and g/LUG*,- have been eagerly working to put together a conference to
discus FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) as an engine of innovation.
The Flourish Conf. will take place next 6-7 of April at the University of
Illinois at Chicago.
I am a self confessed gnu/Linux user, I love gnu/Linux, free software and
even open source - sorry RMS!. I am also a CS student at the University of
Illinois at Chicago, and curiously enough, even though most of our curricula
is done in Unix - we even have 2 RedHat labs here, - it appears as if none
of the big players within FLOSS ever come to hire at UIC. Why is that
Microsoft comes here semester after semester snatching some of the most
brilliant students on campus? Yet, I have yet to see FLOSS big players to
come out here looking for people.

These has made me wonder: Is there a professional future in FLOSS? ....
... and I know I'm not alone in my wonders.

To answer these questions, we have invited quite a few of really smart
people from different organizations: Google, IBM, Red Hat, and the FSF, and
we are going to have a a chance to hear about the opportunities that FLOSS
has to offer for our future.
We will have two panels, a talk on GPL v3, a talk on Google's contribution
and use of FLOSS, among many other really interesting talks, etc. We have
also put together a series of technical talks on FLOSS related technologies
and topics, and a couple other really interesting activities to give
attendees a chance to meet and to be met: Friday's Social mixer, and
Saturday's Hack-a-Thon.
This is not only going to be a great time for students around Chicago, this
is going to be a great chance for community members, and companies to come
together and explore how FLOSS is shaping up our future!

Come and join us!

Roberto C. Serrano
g/LUG @ UIC vice-president
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr  5 16:36:52 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:36:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net>
	<1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <20070405213652.GW7284@iucha.net>

On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 01:51:50PM -0500, Benjamin Gramlich wrote:
> > I'm the happy owner of a Thinkpad T60 wide screen and everything worked
> > with Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) without a hitch - including suspend and
> > resume.  It is slightly on the heavy side, but that's what you pay for
> > the wide screen.  If you want light, get a 14'1 and that is one of the
> > lightest laptops in it's [business] class.
> 
> Regarding the Thinkpad, have things changed now that it is being made by
> Lenovo. I initially looked at Thinkpads, but I know that Lenovo only has
> rights to the name for a short while. Will support end for it as well?

The laptop feels solid and well made.  The screen is nice, not glossy,
with uniform lighting and wide viewing angle and without any bad pixels.

I would strongly recommend it.  You can play with some models at
Microcenter.

As for the long term reliability, I got the 3 year extra warranty, so
I'll let you know how it works in the long run.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 17:08:19 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:08:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <20070405213652.GW7284@iucha.net>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net> <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
	<20070405213652.GW7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704051508t6c00a9fn3515b032239c7f4@mail.gmail.com>

One gotcha on Mac books is lack of a 9 pin serial port, which can be a
real show stopper if you are going to do configuration of network
equipment (Switches, routers, etc...) So you'll want a USB serial port
adapter thing.

My coworker has a 17" Mac Book Pro. All I can say is: luggable. The
thing is huge. It's not a laptop you will want to use in a coach
airline seat. Battery life seems really good for a "laptop" of this
size.

I use a Dell Latitude D610, and the more I have to lug it around the
more I want to get a smaller laptop next time. We've gotten a couple
Latitude D420s in and they are very nice little laptops. Like the Mac
Books the D420 lacks a serial port. It also lacks an internal optical
drive. You can get the media base, which is a portable docking station
thing with the optical drive and some extra USB, video, etc. ports
(similar to ultra portable Thinkpads) or you can get the D/Bay option
which is an external optical drive that connects via the D420's
powered USB2 port. I've setup the media bay and the media dock, and my
personal preference is the D/Bay. With the D420 a D/Port docking
station and large LCD monitor are a must for your "home base."

I haven't played with Linux on the latest Dell laptops, but I didn't
have too many issues when I tried a Knoppix CD in my D610. D620 and
D420 use the same video, network, etc. devices as the D610 (newer
revisions harder, need latest drivers, but at least I only have to
maintain one version of the driver for these systems.) If you're
thinking Linux + Dell, make sure you pick the Intel option for
wireless, not the Dell branded option.

With Parallels Desktop on Mac I've noticed some downright flaky
network behavior in the Windows XP guest OS. For whatever reason the
WinXP guest will not run an install over the network (using windows
file sharing), even if it's a very small (under 5mb) install. If you
copy the install files from the Windows share to the WinXP Guest's
Hard Drive, everything works fine. Besides that issue Parallels has
worked very well and it's impressively fast.

The Parallels network bug would be a show stopper for me. I use VMWare
to test automatic network installs all the time. If you're using
Parallels just to run Windows or Linux to use Windows/Linux specific
programs you should be fine.

If you go the BootCamp route you'll want to setup your dual boot
Operating Systems right away when you get your Mac. If you start using
your Mac it's possible that your hard drive could be come too
fragmented for BootCamp to repartition your hard drive for the
BootCamp operating systems. If this happens, you pretty much have to
reinstall OSX before you're able to use Boot Camp.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From andyzib at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 17:25:04 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:25:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704051508t6c00a9fn3515b032239c7f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net> <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
	<20070405213652.GW7284@iucha.net>
	<e3a54b020704051508t6c00a9fn3515b032239c7f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704051525j8e436d4tc1a68a0f07475ac5@mail.gmail.com>

And a brief amendment to my previous email...

With Dell Laptops the extra money you pay for complete care is well
worth it. With Complete Care, Dell will send out a tech to replace
broken LCDs, keyboards, rubber feet, what ever at no cost to you. For
example, if one of the keys falls off your laptop keyboard you will
have to replace the entire keyboard to get that key back.

Quick Mental list of the abuses my users have subjected their laptops to:
- Chicken Soup spilled on laptop.
- Beer spilled on laptop.
- Broken LCD (We never convinced the user to tell us how it got broken)
- Broken hinges
- Broken latches
- Replaced motherboard due to bad docking port.
- Numerous keyboards replaced due to missing keys.
- Missing rubber feet. (No tech for this one, they just send new rubber feet.)

Dell didn't question anything, they just sent us the parts and a tech
if we requested it. (We request a tech more often than not as it's one
less thing we have to do.) The techs sent our way have always been
from Unisys and they can all take apart a laptop faster I can.

I don't have any experience with Apple and Lenovo's plans, but I would
assume they are competitive.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From joey.rockhold at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 09:05:58 2007
From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:05:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704051525j8e436d4tc1a68a0f07475ac5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net> <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
	<20070405213652.GW7284@iucha.net>
	<e3a54b020704051508t6c00a9fn3515b032239c7f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704051525j8e436d4tc1a68a0f07475ac5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <101e49ea0704060705g5428606fn3c0b6ae3ad0fdce3@mail.gmail.com>

I have been shopping Mac laptops as well.  I talked to a salesman about
BootCamp, he told me they are only supporting Windows XP version SP2 on it.
He said it is not supported to install Windows XP and then apply SP2, you
need a SP2 install CD.

Just a tid bit I thought I would throw out there.

- Joey

On 4/5/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And a brief amendment to my previous email...
>
> With Dell Laptops the extra money you pay for complete care is well
> worth it. With Complete Care, Dell will send out a tech to replace
> broken LCDs, keyboards, rubber feet, what ever at no cost to you. For
> example, if one of the keys falls off your laptop keyboard you will
> have to replace the entire keyboard to get that key back.
>
> Quick Mental list of the abuses my users have subjected their laptops to:
> - Chicken Soup spilled on laptop.
> - Beer spilled on laptop.
> - Broken LCD (We never convinced the user to tell us how it got broken)
> - Broken hinges
> - Broken latches
> - Replaced motherboard due to bad docking port.
> - Numerous keyboards replaced due to missing keys.
> - Missing rubber feet. (No tech for this one, they just send new rubber
> feet.)
>
> Dell didn't question anything, they just sent us the parts and a tech
> if we requested it. (We request a tech more often than not as it's one
> less thing we have to do.) The techs sent our way have always been
> from Unisys and they can all take apart a laptop faster I can.
>
> I don't have any experience with Apple and Lenovo's plans, but I would
> assume they are competitive.
>
> --
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> 0 rows returned
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From nick at chaska.net  Thu Apr  5 08:41:50 2007
From: nick at chaska.net (Nick)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:41:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
Message-ID: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>

 
I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where can I
take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so please be
patient with me.
 
               Thanks, Nick
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Fri Apr  6 12:10:02 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:10:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:41:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
> From: "Nick" <nick at chaska.net>

> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where can
> I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so
> please be patient with me.
>
>                Thanks, Nick

Welcome, Nick!

If there's an installfest coming up, that would be a perfect time to do
it. However, there are many places to look for yourself.

I imagine you know you can boot a LiveCD and run Linux that way, without
changing your hard drive. But to really install, you'll need to either
make room on your existing hard drive, which can be tricky, or add another
drive and install Linux on that.

If you can add a drive, that may be the easiest. However, you can use
Knoppix to re-size your existing NTFS partition and go from there.

So we know what we're dealing with, what's your CPU and RAM? And about
your hard drive, what size is it, and how much is used?

Also, do you have a preferred Linux distribution?

Chris





From jkjones at tcq.net  Fri Apr  6 12:25:09 2007
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:25:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
Message-ID: <46168275.302@tcq.net>

Nick wrote:
>  
> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where 
> can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so 
> please be patient with me.
>  
>                Thanks, Nick
>
> 	
> 	
>
Hello Nick,

I'm not sure when you wrote this.  It just now showed up on the TCLUG 
list today (4/7) with a 4/5/07 date on it.

Anyway, a general answer to your question would be to attend a TCLUG 
Installfest -- but there haven't been any recently.  There's supposed to 
be one in the works, but I haven't seen any definite dates or plans.

Instead, if you want, you're welcome to reply directly to me.  I'd be 
happy to help you get started if we can find a time and place to get 
together.

Kraig


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Apr  6 12:28:09 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:28:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704061226190.18702@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:

>> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:41:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
>> From: "Nick" <nick at chaska.net>
>
>> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where can 
>> I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so 
>> please be patient with me.
>>
>>                Thanks, Nick
>
> Welcome, Nick!
>
> If there's an installfest coming up, that would be a perfect time to do 
> it. However, there are many places to look for yourself.


Are there any web pages that would be especially good for someone like 
Nick?  I imagine that he is like most computer users who would consider 
running Linux -- he doesn't really know what to do -- so there must be 
some good site out there for the millions like Nick.

Mike


From jkjones at tcq.net  Fri Apr  6 12:33:42 2007
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:33:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <46168275.302@tcq.net>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA> <46168275.302@tcq.net>
Message-ID: <46168476.7010001@tcq.net>

Kraig Jones wrote:
> I'm not sure when you wrote this.  It just now showed up on the TCLUG 
> list today (4/7) with a 4/5/07 date on it.
>   
My clock's off too!  Heh heh.

K


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Apr  6 12:36:53 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:36:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <46168275.302@tcq.net>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA> <46168275.302@tcq.net>
Message-ID: <20070406173653.GB7284@iucha.net>

On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 12:25:09PM -0500, Kraig Jones wrote:
> > I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where 
> > can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so 
> > please be patient with me.
> 
> I'm not sure when you wrote this.  It just now showed up on the TCLUG 
> list today (4/7) with a 4/5/07 date on it.

Hello Kraig,

I'm not sure when you wrote this either, but we just got it today, 4/6!!!

This Internet thing, I tell you, it's amazing...

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Fri Apr  6 12:38:08 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:38:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704061226190.18702@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1175878805.9188.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<29158.168.86.12.2.1175879402.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0704061226190.18702@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <29324.168.86.12.2.1175881088.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

Mike Miller said:
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:41:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
>>> From: "Nick" <nick at chaska.net>
>>
>>> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where
>>> can  I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old ,
>>> so  please be patient with me.
>>>
>>>                Thanks, Nick
>>
>> Welcome, Nick!
>>
>> If there's an installfest coming up, that would be a perfect time to
>> do  it. However, there are many places to look for yourself.
>
>
> Are there any web pages that would be especially good for someone like
> Nick?  I imagine that he is like most computer users who would consider
> running Linux -- he doesn't really know what to do -- so there must be
> some good site out there for the millions like Nick.
>
> Mike

Good points, Mike. I think I can find a few, but to narrow down the
search, I asked the questions about his system and preferences. And I know
there's a Linux for Dummies book.

Chris






From strayf at freeshell.org  Fri Apr  6 13:26:24 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:26:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <20070406173653.GB7284@iucha.net>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA> <46168275.302@tcq.net>
	<20070406173653.GB7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <461690D0.10701@freeshell.org>

Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 12:25:09PM -0500, Kraig Jones wrote:
>>> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where 
>>> can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so 
>>> please be patient with me.
>> I'm not sure when you wrote this.  It just now showed up on the TCLUG 
>> list today (4/7) with a 4/5/07 date on it.
> 
> Hello Kraig,
> 
> I'm not sure when you wrote this either, but we just got it today, 4/6!!!
> 
> This Internet thing, I tell you, it's amazing...
> 

My email server is sooo fast... it can send messages backward in time.

-Steve



From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 13:54:25 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:54:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0704060705g5428606fn3c0b6ae3ad0fdce3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B1D9607-5490-466A-B751-4949ADA41A51@visi.com>
	<1175794252.7602.7.camel@desktop> <1175794515.7602.9.camel@desktop>
	<20070405175157.GU7284@iucha.net> <1175799110.7602.12.camel@desktop>
	<20070405213652.GW7284@iucha.net>
	<e3a54b020704051508t6c00a9fn3515b032239c7f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704051525j8e436d4tc1a68a0f07475ac5@mail.gmail.com>
	<101e49ea0704060705g5428606fn3c0b6ae3ad0fdce3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c0704061154g2e822cc8h4dad7eb19d542257@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/07, Joey Rockhold <joey.rockhold at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been shopping Mac laptops as well.  I talked to a salesman about
> BootCamp, he told me they are only supporting Windows XP version SP2 on it.
> He said it is not supported to install Windows XP and then apply SP2, you
> need a SP2 install CD.
>
> Just a tid bit I thought I would throw out there.
>
> - Joey

Parallels is nice, supports pretty much any x86 OS, though I've not
played much with it yet.

VMWare Fusion for Mac is free, supports win/lin/solaris, presumably
*BSD as well. It will also let you run your bootcamp partition as a
VM, like parallels.

Note on both products: you probabl don't want to ever pause a VM
running off your bootcamp partition...

-jth


From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 13:57:40 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:57:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <46168275.302@tcq.net>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA> <46168275.302@tcq.net>
Message-ID: <914f813c0704061157r5626aafeg7b4d7ddcb74b60a6@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/07, Kraig Jones <jkjones at tcq.net> wrote:
> Hello Nick,
>
> I'm not sure when you wrote this.  It just now showed up on the TCLUG
> list today (4/7) with a 4/5/07 date on it.

Kraig,

Seeing as you are in the future, can you tell me how Tiger does at
Augusta Saturday so I can call a bookie? :)

-jthf


From dpkhobby at earthlink.net  Thu Apr  5 14:26:27 2007
From: dpkhobby at earthlink.net (Dwayne Kaelberer)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:26:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
Message-ID: <46154D63.4060101@earthlink.net>

Nick wrote:
>  
> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where
> can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so
> please be patient with me.
>  
>                Thanks, Nick
>
> 	
> 	
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
Hey Nick

  I am running Gentoo Linux dual boot with XP right now. It is a bit
tricky but with a bit of work and reading and understanding Linux , it's
not too bad. What I did with help from some good people on the Gentoo
IRC channel , was to make a FAT32 partition for Win when I partitioned
for Linux. and then useing the Grub boot loader got Gentoo up and
running . Then you just install XP and it wipes out Grub(Yikes!!)and
your Linux partitions from the mbr. I did use the Knoppix live-cd to do
most of the install , that way being able to be on IRC to ask questions.
Once XP was installed I booted up the Knoppix live-cd , and then used a
small program called Testdisk to then look at and write the Linux
partitions back , and then go in and reset Grub boot loader and Wala!
you have Linux and XP as daul boot . This all is very simple now that I
went through a few hair pulling sessions , but can be done pretty nice .
I am not a very seasoned Linux guy yet but its a great learning
experience. You cna email me direct if you like and we can talk . I'm
just out west in Young America. Sorry guys for getting a bit long
 
Dwayne


From jkjones at tcq.net  Fri Apr  6 14:19:24 2007
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:19:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0704061157r5626aafeg7b4d7ddcb74b60a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA> <46168275.302@tcq.net>
	<914f813c0704061157r5626aafeg7b4d7ddcb74b60a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46169D3C.7070706@tcq.net>

John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> On 4/6/07, Kraig Jones <jkjones at tcq.net> wrote:
>> Hello Nick,
>>
>> I'm not sure when you wrote this.  It just now showed up on the TCLUG
>> list today (4/7) with a 4/5/07 date on it.
>
> Kraig,
>
> Seeing as you are in the future, can you tell me how Tiger does at
> Augusta Saturday so I can call a bookie? :)
>
> -jthf
>
John,
Tiger hasn't finished yet.  He's doing OK so far, but he could blow the 
18th yet, so I wouldn't bet on it  ;-)

Oh, this is going to be one of those days.  Friday, isn't it?

K




From joey.rockhold at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 14:54:28 2007
From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 14:54:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <46154D63.4060101@earthlink.net>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
	<46154D63.4060101@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <101e49ea0704061254g38937df7q9262dbff21e8d0e7@mail.gmail.com>

I never allow one operating system use it's boot loader to boot other
operating systems, I always use a 3rd party boot manager, such as GAG (super
easy) or XOSL (full featured, more setup work).  This way you don't go
through the hassle of over-writing the master boot record from one operating
system to the next.  And, it's always best to install your Windows OS's
first since they automatically take over the master boot record, where with
every Linix distro I've tried, you always get the option of where to install
the boot loader.

- Joey


On 4/5/07, Dwayne Kaelberer <dpkhobby at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Nick wrote:
> >
> > I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where
> > can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so
> > please be patient with me.
> >
> >                Thanks, Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> Hey Nick
>
>   I am running Gentoo Linux dual boot with XP right now. It is a bit
> tricky but with a bit of work and reading and understanding Linux , it's
> not too bad. What I did with help from some good people on the Gentoo
> IRC channel , was to make a FAT32 partition for Win when I partitioned
> for Linux. and then useing the Grub boot loader got Gentoo up and
> running . Then you just install XP and it wipes out Grub(Yikes!!)and
> your Linux partitions from the mbr. I did use the Knoppix live-cd to do
> most of the install , that way being able to be on IRC to ask questions.
> Once XP was installed I booted up the Knoppix live-cd , and then used a
> small program called Testdisk to then look at and write the Linux
> partitions back , and then go in and reset Grub boot loader and Wala!
> you have Linux and XP as daul boot . This all is very simple now that I
> went through a few hair pulling sessions , but can be done pretty nice .
> I am not a very seasoned Linux guy yet but its a great learning
> experience. You cna email me direct if you like and we can talk . I'm
> just out west in Young America. Sorry guys for getting a bit long
>
> Dwayne
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu  Fri Apr  6 17:16:13 2007
From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:16:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Swapping Systems
In-Reply-To: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <20070405145714.915a7fdb.josh@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1175897773.4179.19.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 14:57 -0500, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> [...]
> I'm getting a nice shiny (but
> basic) new system from General Nanosystems and I'm hoping that I can
> basically swap in the existing system's hard drive, boot into
> console, reconfigure xorg (new video card) and go.  Has anyone done
> something like this and lived to tell about it?  One problem I
> could see is making sure to use the same IDE channel so the drives
> don't get different names.  Any other snags Ishould be aware of?  

You might run into a situation where the Ethernet chipset isn't
supported.  You'll probably want to do a quick web search on the
motherboard you're getting to make sure that works alright.

The type of sound device may also change, so you'll want to check
whether it still works after the swap.  This isn't a critical item,
though, so I'd probably deal with that last if there were problems.

Have PS/2 ports been disappearing lately?  If you're transitioning from
a PS/2 keyboard to a USB one, some issues may pop up there.

-- 
Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
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From todd3091 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 20:05:07 2007
From: todd3091 at gmail.com (Todd Gardner)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:05:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
In-Reply-To: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA>
Message-ID: <e9bcfee10704061805v37e2298x91eaebe6611cff3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Nick,

This is really very easy to do with a distro like Fedora.  The latest
installer will give you the option to resize you windows disk and add it to
your boot options.  You just need to make sure that Windows is installed
first and that there is sufficient free space for linux to install.

Good luck!

Todd.


On 4/5/07, Nick <nick at chaska.net> wrote:
>
>
> I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where can I
> take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so please be
> patient with me.
>
>                Thanks, Nick
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Todd Gardner
todd3091 at gmail.com
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From baz at winternet.com  Sat Apr  7 22:14:59 2007
From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 22:14:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA><46154D63.4060101@earthlink.net>
	<101e49ea0704061254g38937df7q9262dbff21e8d0e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c7798c$17c9ec40$5e00a8c0@localnet>

As far as Linux ands XP cohabiting on the same disk, I have been doing just that for about 6 or 7 years. There's really no trick involved, it's a matter of following a procedure thart delivers what you want.

Here's my working model, a simple one hard-drive configuration:

Make sure the drive is bight enough. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than 60 Gigabytes, preferably more.

The first thing you should do is decide how to partition up the disk. The following scheme I have used is based on the ideas that (1) There will be one partition for Windows, and roughly 3 for a simple home desktop Linux installation, and (2) the bootloader "grub" is going to be used every time the machine powers up. Grub comes with Redhat/Fedora. It is the first post-BIOS.program to run. In Nick's case, grub will easily boot ether Linux or Windows XP with no trouble. I'm sure there are other bootloaders out there, but grub is the one I know.

First, you will partition the disk. In this sample partition scheme I am using a 100 Gighabyte disk as an example.

Partitions:
1. Linux "/boot" - roughky 128 Megabytes.
2. An NTFS partition reserved for Windows XP. Size depends on on needs, I would use about 40% of the disk, so let's say it will be 40 Gigabytes.
3.  A "Swap" partition for Linux. (1.5 top two times the amount of physical memory (RAM) in the machine. If your system has 512 Megabytes of RAM, you'd want to make this about 768 Megabytes.
4. The remainder of the disk, perhaps something like 58 Gigabytes should be allocated for the Linux root partition "/".

Frankly, now that your disk are partitioned, it doesn't matter whether Windows or Linux gets installed first. I tend to do Linux first, for the reason that that has been my main desktop OS for years.

Any Linux distro will have a graphical utility in which you explicitly tell the setup program what partitions it is supposed to use for what purpose. The setup program will format the Linux partitions, "/boot", "/" and the swap partition.

Continue installing Linux until it is done.Fedora core (for example) sets up the grub loader  that you can choose either system.

OK, Linux is good to go, now set up Windows XP. Surprisingly enough, Windows will live quite happily on the second partition, as my scheme places it. This will be obvious when you startup your computer with the XP setup disk.

Now, setup Windows X.P. Here's the catch: It is true that the Windows setup program will nuke your MBR, where Linux installs the grub boot loader by default. This is easy to overcome.

Here's what I do. I put in my Fedora Core Linux installation DVD and choose to boot into "Rescue Mode". It is easy to "chroot" top your linux installation from this. The Fedora setup program tells you - it is really simple.

Then, as soon as you Linux filesystem is "root", to reinstall grub you do this:

# grub

grub> root (hd0,0)        [ This io grub slang for the first
                                    disk, first partition: we made 
                                    that the "/boot" partition.]

grub> setup (hd0)

And that's all there is too it. You know have a dual-boot, heterogeneous system.

Good luck,

Baz
Bryan A. Zimmer




4. 



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joey Rockhold 
  To: Dwayne Kaelberer 
  Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org ; Nick 
  Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 2:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need info


  I never allow one operating system use it's boot loader to boot other operating systems, I always use a 3rd party boot manager, such as GAG (super easy) or XOSL (full featured, more setup work).  This way you don't go through the hassle of over-writing the master boot record from one operating system to the next.  And, it's always best to install your Windows OS's first since they automatically take over the master boot record, where with every Linix distro I've tried, you always get the option of where to install the boot loader. 

  - Joey



  On 4/5/07, Dwayne Kaelberer <dpkhobby at earthlink.net> wrote:
    Nick wrote:
    >
    > I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where
    > can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so
    > please be patient with me.
    >
    >                Thanks, Nick
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
    > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
    > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
    >
    Hey Nick

      I am running Gentoo Linux dual boot with XP right now. It is a bit
    tricky but with a bit of work and reading and understanding Linux , it's
    not too bad. What I did with help from some good people on the Gentoo 
    IRC channel , was to make a FAT32 partition for Win when I partitioned
    for Linux. and then useing the Grub boot loader got Gentoo up and
    running . Then you just install XP and it wipes out Grub(Yikes!!)and
    your Linux partitions from the mbr. I did use the Knoppix live-cd to do 
    most of the install , that way being able to be on IRC to ask questions.
    Once XP was installed I booted up the Knoppix live-cd , and then used a
    small program called Testdisk to then look at and write the Linux
    partitions back , and then go in and reset Grub boot loader and Wala!
    you have Linux and XP as daul boot . This all is very simple now that I
    went through a few hair pulling sessions , but can be done pretty nice .
    I am not a very seasoned Linux guy yet but its a great learning
    experience. You cna email me direct if you like and we can talk . I'm
    just out west in Young America. Sorry guys for getting a bit long

    Dwayne 

    _______________________________________________
    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
    tclug-list at mn-linux.org
    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
  tclug-list at mn-linux.org
  http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From baz at winternet.com  Sat Apr  7 22:14:59 2007
From: baz at winternet.com (Bryan Zimmer)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 22:14:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
References: <4614FC9E.000003.04596@OWNER-992FC1AAA><46154D63.4060101@earthlink.net>
	<101e49ea0704061254g38937df7q9262dbff21e8d0e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c7798c$17c9ec40$5e00a8c0@localnet>

As far as Linux ands XP cohabiting on the same disk, I have been doing just that for about 6 or 7 years. There's really no trick involved, it's a matter of following a procedure thart delivers what you want.

Here's my working model, a simple one hard-drive configuration:

Make sure the drive is bight enough. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than 60 Gigabytes, preferably more.

The first thing you should do is decide how to partition up the disk. The following scheme I have used is based on the ideas that (1) There will be one partition for Windows, and roughly 3 for a simple home desktop Linux installation, and (2) the bootloader "grub" is going to be used every time the machine powers up. Grub comes with Redhat/Fedora. It is the first post-BIOS.program to run. In Nick's case, grub will easily boot ether Linux or Windows XP with no trouble. I'm sure there are other bootloaders out there, but grub is the one I know.

First, you will partition the disk. In this sample partition scheme I am using a 100 Gighabyte disk as an example.

Partitions:
1. Linux "/boot" - roughky 128 Megabytes.
2. An NTFS partition reserved for Windows XP. Size depends on on needs, I would use about 40% of the disk, so let's say it will be 40 Gigabytes.
3.  A "Swap" partition for Linux. (1.5 top two times the amount of physical memory (RAM) in the machine. If your system has 512 Megabytes of RAM, you'd want to make this about 768 Megabytes.
4. The remainder of the disk, perhaps something like 58 Gigabytes should be allocated for the Linux root partition "/".

Frankly, now that your disk are partitioned, it doesn't matter whether Windows or Linux gets installed first. I tend to do Linux first, for the reason that that has been my main desktop OS for years.

Any Linux distro will have a graphical utility in which you explicitly tell the setup program what partitions it is supposed to use for what purpose. The setup program will format the Linux partitions, "/boot", "/" and the swap partition.

Continue installing Linux until it is done.Fedora core (for example) sets up the grub loader  that you can choose either system.

OK, Linux is good to go, now set up Windows XP. Surprisingly enough, Windows will live quite happily on the second partition, as my scheme places it. This will be obvious when you startup your computer with the XP setup disk.

Now, setup Windows X.P. Here's the catch: It is true that the Windows setup program will nuke your MBR, where Linux installs the grub boot loader by default. This is easy to overcome.

Here's what I do. I put in my Fedora Core Linux installation DVD and choose to boot into "Rescue Mode". It is easy to "chroot" top your linux installation from this. The Fedora setup program tells you - it is really simple.

Then, as soon as you Linux filesystem is "root", to reinstall grub you do this:

# grub

grub> root (hd0,0)        [ This io grub slang for the first
                                    disk, first partition: we made 
                                    that the "/boot" partition.]

grub> setup (hd0)

And that's all there is too it. You know have a dual-boot, heterogeneous system.

Good luck,

Baz
Bryan A. Zimmer




4. 



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joey Rockhold 
  To: Dwayne Kaelberer 
  Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org ; Nick 
  Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 2:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need info


  I never allow one operating system use it's boot loader to boot other operating systems, I always use a 3rd party boot manager, such as GAG (super easy) or XOSL (full featured, more setup work).  This way you don't go through the hassle of over-writing the master boot record from one operating system to the next.  And, it's always best to install your Windows OS's first since they automatically take over the master boot record, where with every Linix distro I've tried, you always get the option of where to install the boot loader. 

  - Joey



  On 4/5/07, Dwayne Kaelberer <dpkhobby at earthlink.net> wrote:
    Nick wrote:
    >
    > I would like to do a dual boot ( XP & Linux ) on my computer. Where
    > can I take my computer for help? I live in Chaska. I'm 68 yrs old , so
    > please be patient with me.
    >
    >                Thanks, Nick
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
    > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
    > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
    >
    Hey Nick

      I am running Gentoo Linux dual boot with XP right now. It is a bit
    tricky but with a bit of work and reading and understanding Linux , it's
    not too bad. What I did with help from some good people on the Gentoo 
    IRC channel , was to make a FAT32 partition for Win when I partitioned
    for Linux. and then useing the Grub boot loader got Gentoo up and
    running . Then you just install XP and it wipes out Grub(Yikes!!)and
    your Linux partitions from the mbr. I did use the Knoppix live-cd to do 
    most of the install , that way being able to be on IRC to ask questions.
    Once XP was installed I booted up the Knoppix live-cd , and then used a
    small program called Testdisk to then look at and write the Linux
    partitions back , and then go in and reset Grub boot loader and Wala!
    you have Linux and XP as daul boot . This all is very simple now that I
    went through a few hair pulling sessions , but can be done pretty nice .
    I am not a very seasoned Linux guy yet but its a great learning
    experience. You cna email me direct if you like and we can talk . I'm
    just out west in Young America. Sorry guys for getting a bit long

    Dwayne 

    _______________________________________________
    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
    tclug-list at mn-linux.org
    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
  tclug-list at mn-linux.org
  http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From florin at iucha.net  Sun Apr  8 09:18:56 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 09:18:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] sshd[xyz]: Accepted password for somebody from
	::ffff:192.168.0.1 port 3676 ssh2
Message-ID: <20070408141856.GH7284@iucha.net>

Guys,

I am looking in the /var/log/secure of a centos server and I see that
the IP address is prefixed by "::ffff:".  What is that? IPv4 tunneled
through IPv6?

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From strayf at freeshell.org  Sun Apr  8 10:35:32 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 10:35:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] sshd[xyz]: Accepted password for somebody
 from	::ffff:192.168.0.1 port 3676 ssh2
In-Reply-To: <20070408141856.GH7284@iucha.net>
References: <20070408141856.GH7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <46190BC4.3090302@freeshell.org>

Florin Iucha wrote:
> Guys,
> 
> I am looking in the /var/log/secure of a centos server and I see that
> the IP address is prefixed by "::ffff:".  What is that? IPv4 tunneled
> through IPv6?

Looks like an IPv4 mapped address maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_mapped_address

"IPv4 mapped addresses are normally used by the IP stack to represent
IPv4 addresses to IPv6 applications."

-Steve


From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  9 06:38:44 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 06:38:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] I815
Message-ID: <49088.204.212.34.10.1176118724.squirrel@lctn.org>

What is the right graphics driver to use when configuring X on an a box
with an Intel 815 chipset. i815 is not available, I have tried i810, vesa,
and nvidia. None of them have worked.

This is on an Ubuntu box.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From florin at iucha.net  Mon Apr  9 07:51:10 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 07:51:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] I815
In-Reply-To: <49088.204.212.34.10.1176118724.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <49088.204.212.34.10.1176118724.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20070409125110.GL7284@iucha.net>

On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 06:38:44AM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> What is the right graphics driver to use when configuring X on an a box
> with an Intel 815 chipset. i815 is not available, I have tried i810, vesa,
> and nvidia. None of them have worked.

i810 is the correct one.  You could try to use the framebuffer.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From danyberg at gmail.com  Mon Apr  9 09:34:25 2007
From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:34:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need info
Message-ID: <5daafeb10704090734t418693d4s2f6953a0cf9ab5ee@mail.gmail.com>

For running Linux and XP on one computer, my own system uses two drives, and
I use <F8> at POST time to select the drive I want to boot from.  Though for
most windows things I use VMWare, but that won't work with my video capture
card.

On the kids computer I installed XP (but never told them the password to
logon) first, then Fedora Core 4 and it works fine with Grub as a boot
loader.  I let the FC4 installer setup the partitions the way it wanted.

IIRC I may have had to manually add XP to the boot options in GRUB, but it
was a while back and I'm not sure about that.


-- 
<><
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From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  9 11:21:08 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:21:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] I815
In-Reply-To: <20070409125110.GL7284@iucha.net>
References: <49088.204.212.34.10.1176118724.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<20070409125110.GL7284@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <41726.64.8.148.4.1176135668.squirrel@lctn.org>

> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 06:38:44AM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote:
>> What is the right graphics driver to use when configuring X on an a box
>> with an Intel 815 chipset. i815 is not available, I have tried i810,
>> vesa,
>> and nvidia. None of them have worked.
>
> i810 is the correct one.  You could try to use the framebuffer.
>
>

It was the PCI settings. I had to change it to 0:2:0





-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue Apr 10 00:21:14 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:21:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/07, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net> wrote:
> John Meier writes:
>
> > As I'd like to be able to switch to any OS depending on client, I am
> > leaning toward a Mac book pro - 17 inch (and will probably get the max
> > amount of memory right off the bat).  I would use bootcamp or
> > Parallels Desktop for Mac for OS selection - Parallels Desktop really
> > caught my eye....
>
> Go for it,
>

I did ...

Got parallels too - so far so good.  Need to get the USB  to 9 pin
serial adapter - any recommendations ?? as  I do some PIC programming,
have to get on CAN networks  from time to time and use the 9 pin to do
COM connections (firewall and other firmware upgrades etc).

Hard to get used to a single mouse button, but I'm sure I'll overcome that...

Leopard release has some nice features - probably should have waited,
but WTF - I grow tired of waiting :)

Thanks for all the responses everyone!

john


From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Apr 10 12:04:56 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:04:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>

> Hard to get used to a single mouse button, but I'm sure I'll overcome that...

Go into the trackpad preferences inside System Preferences to enable
the "tap trackpad using two fingers for secondary click" to enable
"right click". (OS X 10.4.7 required).

I don't recall the name of the software, but there is an application
that will allows for splitting the touch pad for left and right
clicking.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue Apr 10 12:48:47 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:48:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704101048j4643f84bl74e345ed388aa660@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/10/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hard to get used to a single mouse button, but I'm sure I'll overcome that...
>
> Go into the trackpad preferences inside System Preferences to enable
> the "tap trackpad using two fingers for secondary click" to enable
> "right click". (OS X 10.4.7 required).

Sweet - thanks!


From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Tue Apr 10 15:10:07 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:10:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perhaps OT - Laptop choice
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/10/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hard to get used to a single mouse button, but I'm sure I'll overcome that...
>
> Go into the trackpad preferences inside System Preferences to enable
> the "tap trackpad using two fingers for secondary click" to enable
> "right click". (OS X 10.4.7 required).

You can also hold down one finger and drag a second finger to scroll a window...


From seehow at iphouse.com  Tue Apr 10 18:10:44 2007
From: seehow at iphouse.com (Christopher Howard)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:10:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DSL
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I've decided to make the move from dial up to DSL.  I'd like to get an
internal DSL card to save space, less pluged into a power strip, and to
put other types of networking all in one box.  I'd like to hear other
peoples experience with internal DSL cards. What models should I look
for that are suported by linux?



From tompoe at fngi.net  Tue Apr 10 18:14:10 2007
From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:14:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DSL
In-Reply-To: <1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>	<914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>
	<1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <461C1A42.7060201@fngi.net>

Christopher Howard wrote:
> I've decided to make the move from dial up to DSL.  I'd like to get an
> internal DSL card to save space, less pluged into a power strip, and to
> put other types of networking all in one box.  I'd like to hear other
> peoples experience with internal DSL cards. What models should I look
> for that are suported by linux?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>   
Christopher:  I would suggest you check out Meraki.net , and how their 
wireless mesh network units fit in with your shift to DSL. 
Tom
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From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Apr 10 18:24:28 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:24:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] DSL
In-Reply-To: <1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>
	<1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101823430.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007, Christopher Howard wrote:
> I've decided to make the move from dial up to DSL.  I'd like to get an 
> internal DSL card to save space, less pluged into a power strip, and to 
> put other types of networking all in one box.  I'd like to hear other 
> peoples experience with internal DSL cards. What models should I look 
> for that are suported by linux?

This is the only card I'd recommend:

http://www.sangoma.com/main/products/cards/adsl

It's a "real" card.. unlike the crappy Intel cards and such.

Also, if you haven't picked a provider yet, ipHouse is great. Tell them I 
sent you. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Apr 10 18:24:52 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:24:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] DSL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101823430.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>
	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>
	<1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101823430.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101824390.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007, Nate Carlson wrote:
> Also, if you haven't picked a provider yet, ipHouse is great. Tell them 
> I sent you. :)

Er, looked at your e-mail address - never mind me!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From canito at dalan.us  Tue Apr 10 21:59:45 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:59:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Installing Smoothwall on a Laptop
Message-ID: <20070410215945.whzi402kijcwowow@mail.dalan.us>

Just curious to know if anyone has made the successful attempt at  
loading smoothwall on a laptop? On my first attempts my laptop would  
not boot the smoothwall cdrom so I install an opensource boot loaded  
on a floppy. This allowed me to boot the cdrom but failed to complete  
the installation obviously due to the missing modules for the pcmcia.  
There is a site with a small tutorial:  
http://libxg.free.fr/smoothwall/firewall.htm and have had a mixed  
results. The latest attempt I made was to extract the kernel inside  
the iso and add the pcmcia modules to the kernel:

PTStart.exe*  README.txt*  autorun.inf*  boot.cat*  dosutils/  smoothwall.ico*
README.htm*   autorun/     bin/          docs/      images/    smoothwall.tgz*

I added the pcmcia modules provided by libxg.free.fr to the  
smoothwall.tgz and reimaged the cdrom but the updated cdrom failes to  
boot error 0x0C = invalid media


Any one here have any suggestions?

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From j at packetgod.com  Wed Apr 11 11:05:13 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:05:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DSL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101824390.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
References: <65293fcc0704050944x3c386925l7016d8abe9e51806@mail.gmail.com>	<cone.1175793962.400465.29683.1001@home>	<65293fcc0704092221x34f438cq5ef405ab3d794b4f@mail.gmail.com>	<e3a54b020704101004v3620b0abp104702d45053d0fa@mail.gmail.com>	<914f813c0704101310x41f7d2c4maf85b52ea74e9354@mail.gmail.com>	<1176246644.2963.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101823430.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704101824390.1074@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <461D0739.1020901@packetgod.com>

I'll second that recommendation for IPHouse, full unrestricted access 
and great support.  But it's an extra 20$ a month, but you get a static 
IP with that and they are Linux friendly.

--j

Nate Carlson wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2007, Nate Carlson wrote:
>   
>> Also, if you haven't picked a provider yet, ipHouse is great. Tell them 
>> I sent you. :)
>>     
>
> Er, looked at your e-mail address - never mind me!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
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From canito at dalan.us  Wed Apr 11 22:51:44 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:51:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware Upgrade Tool/Wizard
Message-ID: <20070411225144.mdfzbd88e6kgwooc@mail.dalan.us>

As of recent I have been fiddling with other Linux distributions than  
my norm - Gentoo. Although I am somewhat of a n00b, I have been  
finding Linux to get easier, yet some of the differences between  
distros are the pre-built tools and utilities that make tasks easier  
to accomplish such as updating the "entire system." To make this  
short, I came a across slackgrade a universal Slackware update wizard:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/slackgrade/

I want to know, for those peeps who live by Slack what tools or  
methods are recommended to maintain Slackware "patched" for lack of a  
better term?

-David

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From tclug-list at scotjenkins.com  Thu Apr 12 02:38:48 2007
From: tclug-list at scotjenkins.com (Scot Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 02:38:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware Upgrade Tool/Wizard
In-Reply-To: <20070411225144.mdfzbd88e6kgwooc@mail.dalan.us>
References: <20070411225144.mdfzbd88e6kgwooc@mail.dalan.us>
Message-ID: <1176363528.461de208eb1ce@webmail.pajunas.net>

Quoting canito at dalan.us:

> I want to know, for those peeps who live by Slack what tools or
> methods are recommended to maintain Slackware "patched" for lack of a
> better term?

I've used slackpkg [1], a command line tool similar to a simple version of
Debian's apt-get.  I've used it to do OS upgrades over the network and it works
really well.  I have one system that refuses to boot from floppy and/or cdrom
and has limited disk space so network upgrades are the best option.  If you
follow the Slackware UPGRADE.TXT instructions (first upgrade glibc, pkgtools,
etc), when you get to the part about upgrading "everything else", slackpkg
shines here.  It allows you to upgrade all installed pkgs for a given disk set,
and only upgrades what you have installed, like this:

slackpkg upgrade a
slackpkg upgrade ap
slackpkg upgrade n
...

There's also slapt-get [2], but I prefer slackpkg.
--
[1] http://slackpkg.sourceforge.net/
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slapt-get




From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Apr 12 07:30:41 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:30:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704121230.l3CCUf716688@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Houses Apartments and Roomates

Type of Ad: For Rent

Subject: apartment spain

Find apartment and villas in Spain that offers grandeur accomodation with stunning point of spots.


Seller Email address: keesh206 at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Apr 12 08:49:56 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:49:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704121349.l3CDnuA24422@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: HP  A4033B 21 inch Monitor


"upgraded" the wife to a LCD, so this 21" trinitron tube monitor is free to a good home.  Includes BNC to VGA adapter cable.  This is a good monitor, low hours/usage do still looks great.

But...  pickup's in Woodbury.  <grin>

Ron

Seller Email address: ron dot e dot nelson at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Thu Apr 12 12:41:09 2007
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:41:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
Message-ID: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a Dell Latitude C400 (1.2gHz / 800 mHz, 512 GB ram) that I
want to get linux running on again. I had Ubuntu Edgy running on it,
and it was fine, but I'm looking for something a little more
light-weight. Ubuntu works great on my desktop, as I leave it on all
the time, but powering up and powering down seem to take a LONG time
on my laptop.

I could install Debian minimal install, but that's too easy. Any other
smaller distros around? Anyone try DSL linux? What other stuff is out
there?

-- 
-
G. Scott Walters
http://www.apt518.net


From jkjones at tcq.net  Thu Apr 12 13:05:23 2007
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:05:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <461E74E3.9010108@tcq.net>

G. Scott Walters wrote:
> I could install Debian minimal install, but that's too easy. Any other
> smaller distros around? Anyone try DSL linux? What other stuff is out
> there?
>
>   

I've been playing with Puppy Linux.  Somewhat quirky compared to Debian 
derivatives, but very capable.  I have it installed on an old 300MHz 
Thinkpad at the moment.  It's the first time I've been able to get a 
cheap wireless card to work consistently.

Kraig



From tim at filn.net  Thu Apr 12 13:34:07 2007
From: tim at filn.net (Tim Erlin)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:34:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <461E7B9F.5080104@filn.net>

What do you mean by lightweight? Are you trying to control install size,
ram usage, or just the general user experience?

The quickest way to improve performance is to drop Xorg and run without
a UI. If that doesn't meet your needs, I'd suggest looking at one of the
 many alternative desktop manager options like xfce, windowmaker, or
fluxbox.

If you want to control install size, you can look at DSL (which uses
windowmaker, iirc) or slax (which has a version that uses xfce).

--Tim

G. Scott Walters wrote:
> I've got a Dell Latitude C400 (1.2gHz / 800 mHz, 512 GB ram) that I
> want to get linux running on again. I had Ubuntu Edgy running on it,
> and it was fine, but I'm looking for something a little more
> light-weight. Ubuntu works great on my desktop, as I leave it on all
> the time, but powering up and powering down seem to take a LONG time
> on my laptop.
> 
> I could install Debian minimal install, but that's too easy. Any other
> smaller distros around? Anyone try DSL linux? What other stuff is out
> there?
> 

-- 
-| Tim Erlin
-| tim at filn.net
-| http://www.filn.net


From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Thu Apr 12 14:14:01 2007
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:14:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480704121214v549bac31w4b0de8c5d7b7de11@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/12/07, G. Scott Walters <gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
> I could install Debian minimal install, but that's too easy. Any other
> smaller distros around? Anyone try DSL linux? What other stuff is out
> there?

I would throw Gentoo into the ring as well. You can do a binary
install now out of the gate. You can pare the kernel down to the bare
minimum, like-wise with services; caveat emptor here is that if you
want "advanced" services functionality, you end up doing it yourself,
but that's part of the fun. As has already been mentioned, running a
lighter weight window manager makes a _huge_ difference. I'm very
happy with fluxbox, but have been known to still fire up fvwm2 from
time to time.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman


From j at packetgod.com  Thu Apr 12 14:59:34 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:59:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704121214v549bac31w4b0de8c5d7b7de11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0e11c480704121214v549bac31w4b0de8c5d7b7de11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <461E8FA6.7080009@packetgod.com>

I'd also recommend vector linux (http://vectorlinux.com/) I use it on 
all my old systems and it works great.  The slower the system the slower 
they are to start apps but once they are running they work great.

--j

Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:
> On 4/12/07, G. Scott Walters <gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I could install Debian minimal install, but that's too easy. Any other
>> smaller distros around? Anyone try DSL linux? What other stuff is out
>> there?
>>     
>
> I would throw Gentoo into the ring as well. You can do a binary
> install now out of the gate. You can pare the kernel down to the bare
> minimum, like-wise with services; caveat emptor here is that if you
> want "advanced" services functionality, you end up doing it yourself,
> but that's part of the fun. As has already been mentioned, running a
> lighter weight window manager makes a _huge_ difference. I'm very
> happy with fluxbox, but have been known to still fire up fvwm2 from
> time to time.
>
>   



From rhavenn at rhavenn.net  Thu Apr 12 15:02:15 2007
From: rhavenn at rhavenn.net (Henrik Hudson)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:02:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200704121502.16336.rhavenn@rhavenn.net>

On Thursday 12 April 2007 12:41, "G. Scott Walters" <gscottwalters at gmail.com> 
sent a missive stating: 
> I've got a Dell Latitude C400 (1.2gHz / 800 mHz, 512 GB ram) that I
> want to get linux running on again. I had Ubuntu Edgy running on it,
> and it was fine, but I'm looking for something a little more
> light-weight. Ubuntu works great on my desktop, as I leave it on all
> the time, but powering up and powering down seem to take a LONG time
> on my laptop.

If you like Ubuntu then give Xubuntu a try. It's tied around the XFCE window 
manager, but is for the most part the same as Ubuntu.

Henrik
-- 
Henrik Hudson
rhavenn at rhavenn.net
------------------------------
"Law is not justice, legal is not right and illegal is not wrong."

"There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who
 understand binary and those who don't..."


From josh at joshwelch.com  Thu Apr 12 14:53:03 2007
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:53:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <200704121502.16336.rhavenn@rhavenn.net>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704121502.16336.rhavenn@rhavenn.net>
Message-ID: <20070412145303.0nm2m8m5wsdcoo84@bullwinkle.joshwelch.com>

Quoting Henrik Hudson <rhavenn at rhavenn.net>:

> On Thursday 12 April 2007 12:41, "G. Scott Walters" <gscottwalters at gmail.com>
> sent a missive stating:
>> I've got a Dell Latitude C400 (1.2gHz / 800 mHz, 512 GB ram) that I
>> want to get linux running on again. I had Ubuntu Edgy running on it,
>> and it was fine, but I'm looking for something a little more
>> light-weight. Ubuntu works great on my desktop, as I leave it on all
>> the time, but powering up and powering down seem to take a LONG time
>> on my laptop.
>
> If you like Ubuntu then give Xubuntu a try. It's tied around the XFCE window
> manager, but is for the most part the same as Ubuntu.
>

I second that, I've got XUbuntu running on an old IBM A21 and it seems 
to run just fine. Josh


From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Fri Apr 13 01:36:15 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:36:15 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480704121214v549bac31w4b0de8c5d7b7de11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0704121041q36185cf9p3db0710cd55dc2f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0e11c480704121214v549bac31w4b0de8c5d7b7de11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <461F24DF.8020802@mchsi.com>

Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:
> On 4/12/07, G. Scott Walters <gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I could install Debian minimal install, but that's too easy. Any other
>> smaller distros around? Anyone try DSL linux? What other stuff is out
>> there?
>>     
>
> I would throw Gentoo into the ring as well. You can do a binary
> install now out of the gate. You can pare the kernel down to the bare
> minimum, like-wise with services; caveat emptor here is that if you
> want "advanced" services functionality, you end up doing it yourself,
> but that's part of the fun. As has already been mentioned, running a
> lighter weight window manager makes a _huge_ difference. I'm very
> happy with fluxbox, but have been known to still fire up fvwm2 from
> time to time.
>
>   
I second that on the gentoo suggestion. It's perfect for hardware like 
that, as you can decide just what you want, and compile a slim kernel, 
and use fluxbox... that thing will be fine for normal every day use.

fluxbox + gentoo.

Regards,

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx



From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 13 08:25:03 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Associate Network Administrator Position
Message-ID: <20070413132503.12820.qmail@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

MQSoftware is looking for a Associate Network Administrator for it's office in Saint Louis Park, MN.  

Details of the job requirement are not complete yet, but I wanted to give all my friends in TCLUG advanced notice.

The position involves a medium-size (100-250) homogeneous network of Windows Server, Windows Client, UNIX and Linux systems.  I'm guessing experience with Veritas, various databases and MQSeries will also be a plus.  You will be a member of a teem of 3 people to maintain this network and it's computers.

MQSoftware is a internations company headquartered here.  It is involved with the IBM Websphere MQSeries messaging products.  We offer monitoring products as well as consulting and training.

Feel free to send me your resumes directly to me, or send them to hr at mqsoftware.com



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Fri Apr 13 09:46:24 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:46:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1338.1176467988.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1338.1176467988.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <8573.64.211.222.210.1176475584.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:41:09 -0500
> From: "G. Scott Walters" <gscottwalters at gmail.com>

> light-weight. Ubuntu works great on my desktop, as I leave it on all the
> time, but powering up and powering down seem to take a LONG time on my
> laptop.

If suspend and resume doesn't work, that would be the first thing to fix.

Next, you can disable all the unused features so they don't slow down your
startup and take memory. If actually using the desktop is fine, then
you're already set.

For my use (being a long-time Red Hat/Fedora kool-aid drinker) on old
hardware, I use FC6 with XFCE.

For REALLY old hardware, I'm hoping work on the RULE project gets more
active. (www.rule-project.org)

Chris





From itwontdie at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 10:40:06 2007
From: itwontdie at gmail.com (Ryan R)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:40:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <8573.64.211.222.210.1176475584.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.1338.1176467988.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<8573.64.211.222.210.1176475584.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <79758ac80704130840w7f7754y176a8caa0969aa50@mail.gmail.com>

Gentoo is definitely the way to go!  For a window manager xfce4 and
fluxbox are adequit but i feel dwm would work better for you on that
lappy. dwm works great on my old G3 ibook.
(http://www.suckless.org/wiki/dwm)

-- 
-Ryan R.

Learn GNU/Linux!
http://infectious.cc/


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Fri Apr 13 11:42:02 2007
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:42:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <79758ac80704130840w7f7754y176a8caa0969aa50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1338.1176467988.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<8573.64.211.222.210.1176475584.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
	<79758ac80704130840w7f7754y176a8caa0969aa50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1176482522.3235.1184485161@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I found xfce4 to be slow on my 300MHZ presario laptop. You can still get
it to run ok if you strip it down to some bare services. In that case
you might as well just go with a fast window manager instead of a
desktop system. I recommend fvwm if you want speed and extreme
configurability. 


----- Original message -----
From: "Ryan R" <itwontdie at gmail.com>
To: "Chris Schumann" <cschumann at twp-llc.com>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:40:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro

Gentoo is definitely the way to go!  For a window manager xfce4 and
fluxbox are adequit but i feel dwm would work better for you on that
lappy. dwm works great on my old G3 ibook.
(http://www.suckless.org/wiki/dwm)

-- 
-Ryan R.

Learn GNU/Linux!
http://infectious.cc/

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From duff0097 at umn.edu  Fri Apr 13 12:07:13 2007
From: duff0097 at umn.edu (duff0097 at umn.edu)
Date: 13 Apr 2007 12:07:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
In-Reply-To: <1176482522.3235.1184485161@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <mailman.1338.1176467988.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1176482522.3235.1184485161@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <Prayer.1.0.16.0704131207130.23140@wm1.tc.umn.edu>

I know it's still experimental but e17 (http://www3.get-e.org/). It's very 
fast - even on my 300Mhz IMac. And it looks pretty too. Similar to fluxbox 
in use.

Unfortunately the ebuilds have been pulled from the gentoo tree (if that's 
what distro you are using), I have the overlay if anyone wants it. You can 
probably find it online somewhere.

-Bryan

On Apr 13 2007, Isaac Atilano wrote:

>I found xfce4 to be slow on my 300MHZ presario laptop. You can still get
>it to run ok if you strip it down to some bare services. In that case
>you might as well just go with a fast window manager instead of a
>desktop system. I recommend fvwm if you want speed and extreme
>configurability. 
>
>
>----- Original message -----
>From: "Ryan R" <itwontdie at gmail.com>
>To: "Chris Schumann" <cschumann at twp-llc.com>
>Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:40:06 -0500
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] light-weight LInux distro
>
>Gentoo is definitely the way to go!  For a window manager xfce4 and
>fluxbox are adequit but i feel dwm would work better for you on that
>lappy. dwm works great on my old G3 ibook.
>(http://www.suckless.org/wiki/dwm)
>
>


From paul.matthews at opensourcehowto.org  Sat Apr 14 05:19:27 2007
From: paul.matthews at opensourcehowto.org (Paul Matthews)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:19:27 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSourceHowTo.org
Message-ID: <56943.124.185.121.174.1176545967.squirrel@www.opensourcehowto.org>

http://www.opensourcehowto.org

hi everyone, i've setup a website so that users of open source server side
software can come and look at instructional guides, how-to's, forums,
wiki's and all sorts of other information about setting up software on
Linux for both windows and Linux based networks.

I am currently still working on it, adding new screen shots every day,
hoping to double check a lot of my how-to's once the screen shots are
added, re-write them to increase keyword density of my articles for better
search engine results & once that is done i will hopefully be adding
streaming video of my how-to articles using either youtube embed code or
meta cafe embed code.

I've made soo many changes to it over the past 2 months now here are a
list of just some of them.

- Added Super Scripted HowTo links on the home page to each HowTo
- Started adding configuration files into 'Quote' boxes
- Added irc://irc.freenode.net/opensourcehowto
- Added 'OpenSourceHowTo.Org Daily News'
- Started working on getting the Announcements page working with RSS.
- Removed up to 75 ads from OpenSourceHowTo.Org
- Ads locked down, no more offence ads (hopefully) & more relevant ads now
in place.
- New skin now working on all browsers, IE6, IE7, FireFox, Oprea, Safari.
- New skin released for OpenSourceHowTo.Org
- Started working on new skin for OpenSourceHowTo.Org
- Started transfering data from Wiki.OpenSourceHowTo.org to
OpenWiki.OpenSourceHowTo.Org
- OpenWiki was installed on OpenSourceHowTo.Org
- A translation module was added for OpenSourceHowTo.Org
- Video How-to's are being made & added

This list with more information can be found at

http://www.opensourcehowto.org/announcements/

I really hope there is some useful information for people here on this
website & please, if you have any advice or help on this website, I'd love
to hear it.


-- 
OpenSourceHowTo.org
[url]http://www.opensourcehowto.org/[/url]

Wiki.OpenSourceHowTo.org
[url]http://wiki.opensourcehowto.org/[/url]

My ServerSetup Scripts
[url]http://evilperson85.110mb.com[/url]

Please Support OpenSourceHowTo.org
[url]http://www.opensourcehowto.org/how-to/welcome/support-opensourcehowto.org.html[/url]


From rhubarbpie at poetworld.net  Sat Apr 14 08:05:33 2007
From: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net (rhubarbpie at poetworld.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 06:05:33 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] Sun Solaris 10 DVD
Message-ID: <f1dcdb41cf3c473083fd812c12d4ac8e.rhubarbpie@poetworld.net>


I've posted about Sun's delay in shipping their free
Solaris 10 DVD.  I thought I'd update that I finally
received mine 04/13/07.  I ordered the DVD in
early-to-mid January.  Although Sun wasn't timely in
filling the order, they were quite polite and
responsive in recent correspondence.

Bottom line, if others have unfulfilled orders you'll
hopefully be receiving yours soon.



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sat Apr 14 12:51:35 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:51:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Sun Solaris 10 DVD
In-Reply-To: <f1dcdb41cf3c473083fd812c12d4ac8e.rhubarbpie@poetworld.net>
References: <f1dcdb41cf3c473083fd812c12d4ac8e.rhubarbpie@poetworld.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704141250200.18786@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:

> I've posted about Sun's delay in shipping their free
> Solaris 10 DVD.  I thought I'd update that I finally
> received mine 04/13/07.  I ordered the DVD in
> early-to-mid January.  Although Sun wasn't timely in
> filling the order, they were quite polite and
> responsive in recent correspondence.
>
> Bottom line, if others have unfulfilled orders you'll
> hopefully be receiving yours soon.


I received mine a couple of weeks ago, maybe more.
One of their local reps found out about our complaining on the list, I 
think, and reacted fairly quickly.

Mike


From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Sat Apr 14 14:57:36 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:57:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Sun Solaris 10 DVD
In-Reply-To: <f1dcdb41cf3c473083fd812c12d4ac8e.rhubarbpie@poetworld.net>
References: <f1dcdb41cf3c473083fd812c12d4ac8e.rhubarbpie@poetworld.net>
Message-ID: <46213230.6090102@mchsi.com>

rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:
> I've posted about Sun's delay in shipping their free
> Solaris 10 DVD.  I thought I'd update that I finally
> received mine 04/13/07.  I ordered the DVD in
> early-to-mid January.  Although Sun wasn't timely in
> filling the order, they were quite polite and
> responsive in recent correspondence.
>
> Bottom line, if others have unfulfilled orders you'll
> hopefully be receiving yours soon.
>
>   
I also received mine about 3 weeks ago. It took a while, seems like I 
registered for it like 3 months ago. Anyway, just my experience.

:)

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx


From robbyt at robbyt.net  Sat Apr 14 23:32:21 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:32:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSourceHowTo.org
In-Reply-To: <56943.124.185.121.174.1176545967.squirrel@www.opensourcehowto.org>
References: <56943.124.185.121.174.1176545967.squirrel@www.opensourcehowto.org>
Message-ID: <1f663090704142132p4b7569b8q4dffc8bd009fae96@mail.gmail.com>

i have one immature criticism about the site:

your logo "OSHT" makes me think of "Oh Shit!"



On 4/14/07, Paul Matthews <paul.matthews at opensourcehowto.org> wrote:
> http://www.opensourcehowto.org
>
> hi everyone, i've setup a website so that users of open source server side
> software can come and look at instructional guides, how-to's, forums,
> wiki's and all sorts of other information about setting up software on
> Linux for both windows and Linux based networks.
>
> I am currently still working on it, adding new screen shots every day,
> hoping to double check a lot of my how-to's once the screen shots are
> added, re-write them to increase keyword density of my articles for better
> search engine results & once that is done i will hopefully be adding
> streaming video of my how-to articles using either youtube embed code or
> meta cafe embed code.
>
> I've made soo many changes to it over the past 2 months now here are a
> list of just some of them.
>
> - Added Super Scripted HowTo links on the home page to each HowTo
> - Started adding configuration files into 'Quote' boxes
> - Added irc://irc.freenode.net/opensourcehowto
> - Added 'OpenSourceHowTo.Org Daily News'
> - Started working on getting the Announcements page working with RSS.
> - Removed up to 75 ads from OpenSourceHowTo.Org
> - Ads locked down, no more offence ads (hopefully) & more relevant ads now
> in place.
> - New skin now working on all browsers, IE6, IE7, FireFox, Oprea, Safari.
> - New skin released for OpenSourceHowTo.Org
> - Started working on new skin for OpenSourceHowTo.Org
> - Started transfering data from Wiki.OpenSourceHowTo.org to
> OpenWiki.OpenSourceHowTo.Org
> - OpenWiki was installed on OpenSourceHowTo.Org
> - A translation module was added for OpenSourceHowTo.Org
> - Video How-to's are being made & added
>
> This list with more information can be found at
>
> http://www.opensourcehowto.org/announcements/
>
> I really hope there is some useful information for people here on this
> website & please, if you have any advice or help on this website, I'd love
> to hear it.
>
>
> --
> OpenSourceHowTo.org
> [url]http://www.opensourcehowto.org/[/url]
>
> Wiki.OpenSourceHowTo.org
> [url]http://wiki.opensourcehowto.org/[/url]
>
> My ServerSetup Scripts
> [url]http://evilperson85.110mb.com[/url]
>
> Please Support OpenSourceHowTo.org
> [url]http://www.opensourcehowto.org/how-to/welcome/support-opensourcehowto.org.html[/url]
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From john.meier at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 01:11:16 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:11:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSourceHowTo.org
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704142132p4b7569b8q4dffc8bd009fae96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56943.124.185.121.174.1176545967.squirrel@www.opensourcehowto.org>
	<1f663090704142132p4b7569b8q4dffc8bd009fae96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704142311h585ea0e8t1e65540fc92bbdb7@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/14/07, Rob Terhaar <robbyt at robbyt.net> wrote:
>
> i have one immature criticism about the site:
>
> your logo "OSHT" makes me think of "Oh Shit!"


ditto - first thing I thought...

but I did like the site!  :)
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sun Apr 15 09:16:55 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:16:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSourceHowTo.org
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704142132p4b7569b8q4dffc8bd009fae96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56943.124.185.121.174.1176545967.squirrel@www.opensourcehowto.org>
	<1f663090704142132p4b7569b8q4dffc8bd009fae96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704150911140.27146@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Rob Terhaar wrote:

> i have one immature criticism about the site:
>
> your logo "OSHT" makes me think of "Oh Shit!"

I don't know if Paul Matthews is reading our list now, but I know do know 
that he sent the same message to the Mizzou LUG, so I think he wrote to a 
large number of LUGs.  Hmmm...check this out:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22i%27ve+setup+a+website+so+that+users+of+open+source+server+side%22

Looks like he started sending the notifications a few weeks ago.  So if 
you want him to see your posting, I think you should CC him (address 
below).

Mike


> On 4/14/07, Paul Matthews <paul.matthews at opensourcehowto.org> wrote:
>> http://www.opensourcehowto.org
>>
>> hi everyone, i've setup a website so that users of open source server side
>> software can come and look at instructional guides, how-to's, forums,
>> wiki's and all sorts of other information about setting up software on
>> Linux for both windows and Linux based networks.
[snip]


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Apr 15 13:24:57 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:24:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704151824.l3FIOvv06473@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want for Free

Subject: Cisco 678

Qwest switched me from CAP to DMT so my Cisco 675 no longer works.  I don't want to run an actiontec modem so I'm looking for a 678 for free or cheap.  I'd be willing to swap my 675 for a 678 if anyone wants it in exchange.  Anyone have one of these gathering dust or getting in your way?
Thanks.

Seller Email address: ben dot usenet dot alias at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Apr 16 13:03:12 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:03:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704161803.l3GI3Cp24235@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell PowerEdge 1300

Dell PowerEdge 1300 Server:

450mhz Pentium III
256mb Pc-100 Ram
3x8gb Scsi Hdd's with Scsi raid Card.

$50.00 obo


Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Apr 16 13:18:35 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:18:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704161818.l3GIIZm25488@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell PowerEdge 1300 (500mhz)

Dell PowerEdge 1300

500mhz Intel Pentium III
256mb Pc-133 Ram
4x 9gb Scsi Hdd's

$75obo

Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From swaite at sbn-services.com  Mon Apr 16 14:00:59 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:00:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>

For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to know 
what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I originally 
signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year or at 
least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  which 
is ridiculous.

Sean Waite
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From tommyj27 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 14:21:46 2007
From: tommyj27 at gmail.com (Thomas Johnson)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:21:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <1469cda20704161221n1fc651c9u13acfaa3fb8c4e10@mail.gmail.com>

We have three /28s through Qwest and pay something like that ($/address).
Visi charges a similar rate as well
http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html

On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>
> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to know
> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I originally
> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year or at
> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  which
> is ridiculous.
>
>
>
> Sean Waite
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From swaite at sbn-services.com  Mon Apr 16 14:38:12 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:38:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704161438.AA38120037@sbn-services.com>

I guess my memory is failing me. I 
remember we had originally set up service with Popp Telecom, but they 
completely dropped the ball, so we went back to Qwest and said make us an 
offer. At the time I remember the deal was we got 1 IP address, to get 5 was 

a one time charge that was very small, nothing like $14.95/month (thinking 
back, this was around $30/year).  Problem is many companies change the 
numbers around somewhat to mask actual costs. Last time I dealt with 
Eschelon for a client, the client was paying $5/month for 5 IPs, but I did 
figure out they were adding costs to the T1. Funny how these services just 
go up in price over the years.

Sean Waite




-----Original Message-----

From: "Sean Waite" <swaite at sbn-services.com>

To: "steve ulrich" <sulrich at botwerks.org>

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:37:29 -0500

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost






-----Original Message-----

From: "steve ulrich" <sulrich at botwerks.org>

To: "Sean Waite" <swaite at sbn-services.com>

Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:23:57 -0500

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost




all things considered, $15/month for a /29 is a pretty reasonable

price.  most boutique ISPs charge on the order of $15-20/month if 
they

even offer the service at all.



the days of dirt cheap address space are long gone and with good reason.



i'd given up on having blocks of address space routed to home a long

time ago.  but digging up a receipt from a few years ago, at visi i

was paying $30/month  for a /28.



On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:

>

>

> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to 
know

> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I 
originally

> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year or 
at

> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month 
 which

> is ridiculous.



[snipped]





-- 

steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org>
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From tompoe at fngi.net  Mon Apr 16 14:41:12 2007
From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:41:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
In-Reply-To: <1469cda20704161221n1fc651c9u13acfaa3fb8c4e10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>
	<1469cda20704161221n1fc651c9u13acfaa3fb8c4e10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4623D158.30501@fngi.net>

Thomas Johnson wrote:
> We have three /28s through Qwest and pay something like that ($/address).
> Visi charges a similar rate as well
> http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html
>
> On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>>
>> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to 
>> know
>> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I 
>> originally
>> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year 
>> or at
>> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  
>> which
>> is ridiculous.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sean Waite
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
Minneapolis is supposed to have a 59 square mile wireless network in 
operation this Fall, right?  Will smb's be able to take advantage of it 
at reasonable cost?
Tom
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From sulrich at botwerks.org  Mon Apr 16 14:23:57 2007
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:23:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <f2ec4fb50704161223s6c94b566p19ac2b65556f49d0@mail.gmail.com>

all things considered, $15/month for a /29 is a pretty reasonable
price.  most boutique ISPs charge on the order of $15-20/month if they
even offer the service at all.

the days of dirt cheap address space are long gone and with good reason.

i'd given up on having blocks of address space routed to home a long
time ago.  but digging up a receipt from a few years ago, at visi i
was paying $30/month  for a /28.

On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>
>
> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to know
> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I originally
> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year or at
> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  which
> is ridiculous.

[snipped]


-- 
steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org>


From swaite at sbn-services.com  Mon Apr 16 15:01:30 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:01:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
In-Reply-To: <4623D158.30501@fngi.net>
References: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>
	<1469cda20704161221n1fc651c9u13acfaa3fb8c4e10@mail.gmail.com>
	<4623D158.30501@fngi.net>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704161501.AA01300038@sbn-services.com>

-----Original Message-----

From: Tom Poe <tompoe at fngi.net>

To: Thomas Johnson <tommyj27 at gmail.com>

Cc: Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com>, tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:41:12 -0500

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost




Thomas Johnson wrote:

> We have three /28s through Qwest and pay something like that ($/address).

> Visi charges a similar rate as well

> http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html 
[http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html]

>

> On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:

>>

>> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to 

>> know

>> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I 

>> originally

>> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year 

>> or at

>> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  

>> which

>> is ridiculous.

>>

>>

>>

>> Sean Waite

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
[http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list]

>>

>>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> _______________________________________________

> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
[http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list]

>   

Minneapolis is supposed to have a 59 square mile wireless network in 

operation this Fall, right?  Will smb's be able to take advantage of it 

at reasonable cost?

Tom


I hope so,
currently right now I have both phone and DSL service, which I really
do not need the phone. At the moment I have a VOIP to my home. I could
just reverse this, get home phone service for a lot less and send the
phone line to the office so to speak. In that scenario I could cut my
office expense by more than 70%. Unfortunately at the moment the
Minneapolis city website really does not provide much information on
costs, just a rough $29.99 for businesses.Sean Waite
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From blawrence at qwest.net  Mon Apr 16 14:26:52 2007
From: blawrence at qwest.net (blawrence at qwest.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:26:52 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
Message-ID: <380-220074116192652864@M2W033.mail2web.com>

I've had Qwest DSL using Qwest.net as the ISP for approximately 6 years and
I've always had to pay for my block of addresses monthly.

Brian Lawrence

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Sean Waite swaite at sbn-services.com
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:00:59 -0500
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost


For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to know 
what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I originally 
signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year or at 
least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  which 
is ridiculous.

Sean Waite


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint




From tompoe at fngi.net  Mon Apr 16 15:22:40 2007
From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:22:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704161501.AA01300038@sbn-services.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704161400.AA00590034@sbn-services.com>	<1469cda20704161221n1fc651c9u13acfaa3fb8c4e10@mail.gmail.com>	<4623D158.30501@fngi.net>
	<WorldClient-F200704161501.AA01300038@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <4623DB10.1060908@fngi.net>

Sean Waite wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Tom Poe <tompoe at fngi.net>
>
> To: Thomas Johnson <tommyj27 at gmail.com>
>
> Cc: Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com>, tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:41:12 -0500
>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
>
>
>
>
> Thomas Johnson wrote:
>
>   
>> We have three /28s through Qwest and pay something like that ($/address).
>>     
>
>   
>> Visi charges a similar rate as well
>>     
>
>   
>> http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html 
>>     
> [http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html]
>
>   
>
>   
>> On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>>     
>
>   
>
>   
>>> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious to 
>>>       
>
>   
>>> know
>>>       
>
>   
>>> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I 
>>>       
>
>   
>>> originally
>>>       
>
>   
>>> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year 
>>>       
>
>   
>>> or at
>>>       
>
>   
>>> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month  
>>>       
>
>   
>>> which
>>>       
>
>   
>>> is ridiculous.
>>>       
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>>> Sean Waite
>>>       
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>       
>
>   
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>       
>
>   
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>       
>
>   
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>>       
> [http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list]
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     
>
>   
>
>   
>> _______________________________________________
>>     
>
>   
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     
>
>   
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>     
>
>   
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>     
> [http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list]
>
>   
>>   
>>     
>
> Minneapolis is supposed to have a 59 square mile wireless network in 
>
> operation this Fall, right?  Will smb's be able to take advantage of it 
>
> at reasonable cost?
>
> Tom
>
>
> I hope so,
> currently right now I have both phone and DSL service, which I really
> do not need the phone. At the moment I have a VOIP to my home. I could
> just reverse this, get home phone service for a lot less and send the
> phone line to the office so to speak. In that scenario I could cut my
> office expense by more than 70%. Unfortunately at the moment the
> Minneapolis city website really does not provide much information on
> costs, just a rough $29.99 for businesses.Sean Waite
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
So, down the road, let's suppose Domino's decided to create a mesh 
network within its range of delivery.  Customers could buy a Meraki.net 
box from them for $50, and plug it in, becoming a node on the Domino's  
"branded" mesh network.  They'd get Internet for some nominal price ( or 
free ), and pizzas delivered with a click of the mouse.  Once the mesh 
network saturated the delivery range, they'd be able to know their 
advertising costs would be whatever they had to pay a web designer.  
Maintenance and operation expenses would be minimal, taken up in large 
part by replacing the boxes, rather than troubleshooting technical issues.

Looks like, to me, there are exciting times in Minneapolis, and coming soon.
Tom
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From drue at therub.org  Tue Apr 17 07:41:08 2007
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:41:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] LAMP admin needed
Message-ID: <20070417124108.GD49180@therub.org>

Chris Johnson asked me to forward this on, 

--------------------------

Senior LAMP / Unix system administrator needed in Stuttgart, Germany.

My employer, OpenBand of Virginia ([3]http://www.openband.net ) is
looking to hire a senior Unix system administrator for a position in
Stuttgart, Germany supporting U.S. government non-classified and public
systems.

The "stack" of technology involved includes Debian Linux (to be migrated
to Red Hat Enterprise in the near future), Apache 1 and 2, MySQL and
Postgresql, PHP, Drupal, OpenLDAP, OpenSSL, XMPP/Jabber via ejabberd,
BIND 9, Postfix, Snort and some other odds and ends like a Squid proxy
front-end.  Expertise in most or all of these technologies is desired.

Other skills required include the ability to plan and implement disaster
recovery procedures, effectively document and manage system
configurations, plan and implement software upgrades for services which
are used worldwide and thus, 24x7, and support both development and
production environments.  This is a senior position, and you'll make
most of the decisions on how to  run the show.

This position is planned as a TESA (technical expert status
accreditation) position, which means the German government approves the
individual's living and working in Germany on contract for the U.S.
government (essentially an indefinite visa and work-permit), and
generally also means the person will also be qualified for a bunch of
privileges and benefits, including military base privileges (buying U.S.
goods, food and gasoline at U.S. prices with no sales tax or VAT) as
well as not paying income tax to the U.S. government on the first
roughly $82,000 of wages one earns.

If you have the chops we need, and have a desire for a bit of adventure
living in Germany where the beer, wine, cheese and bread is on average
much better than you what you get in the U.S. and much cheaper, too, or
maybe you just like skiing in the Alps in the winter and hiking in them
during the summer, whatever -- send your resume to Chris Johnson at
christopher dot johnson at openband dot net.


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 17 08:43:37 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:43:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704161501.AA01300038@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <834892.58688.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Check out http://usinternet.com/wireless/

There's a phone number to call for pricing.

Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:  -----Original Message-----
 From: Tom Poe <tompoe at fngi.net>
 To: Thomas Johnson <tommyj27 at gmail.com>
 Cc: Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com>, tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:41:12 -0500
 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Qwest Block 5 IP cost
 
  Thomas Johnson wrote:
 > We have three /28s through Qwest and pay something like that  ($/address).
 > Visi charges a similar rate as well
 > http://home.visi.com/services/special/ip_address.html
  >
 > On 4/16/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
 >>
 >> For those of you who have Qwest or similar DSL, I am very curious  to 
 >> know
 >> what you are paying for a block of 5 IPs with their DSL. When I 
  >> originally
 >> signed up with Qwest some years back it was something like $15/year  
 >> or at
 >> least that was the deal we made. Now they are charging $14.95/month   
 >> which
 >> is ridiculous.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Sean Waite
 >>
 >>
 >> _______________________________________________
 >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
 >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
 >>
 >>
 >
 >  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
 > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
 >   
 Minneapolis is supposed to have a 59 square mile wireless network in 
 operation this Fall, right?  Will smb's be able to take advantage of it  
 at reasonable cost?
 Tom

 
 
I hope so, currently right now I have both phone and DSL service, which I really do not need the phone. At the moment I have a VOIP to my home. I could just reverse this, get home phone service for a lot less and send the phone line to the office so to speak. In that scenario I could cut my office expense by more than 70%. Unfortunately at the moment the Minneapolis city website really does not provide much information on costs, just a rough $29.99 for businesses.
 


 
<<>>  Sean Waite>   _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From swaite at sbn-services.com  Tue Apr 17 13:06:18 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:06:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Asterisk IAX2 Phones?
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>

Wondering if I am alone out there in trying to find an IAX2 phone to use 
with Asterisk. I have currently Cisco SIP phones, but these are not ideal 
for remote locations. There are IAX2 phones out there, in fact if you are in 
China there seems to be numerous sources. One thing that does not build 
confidence are these companies and their phones do not seem to last too long 
on the market. In fact the phones I found doing a search 3 years ago, none 
are too be found along with a few of the MFRs. Currently all the Chinese 
manufacturers do not seem to have distribution in the US, while they do have 
FCC approval. The one company, can not remember which, that did list a 
contact in California was a bust. I called the 1-800 number and got some 
adult message that did not inspire confidence in this company. Softphones 
can work, but again these are not ideal for many applications.

Anyone here done any searching for IAX2 phones I would love to hear what 
your conclusions are.
Also, someone recently mentioned that there is an open source firmware for 
one phone that supports IAX2, unfortunately I lost the link. Anyone heard of 
this?

Sean
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From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Apr 18 10:46:34 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] MinneBar on Saturday
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Who else is going to MinneBar this weekend?  If we have several people going 
from TCLUG, we should try to meet up at some point.

http://barcamp.org/MinneBar

Jeremy


From nate at refried.org  Wed Apr 18 11:43:05 2007
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:43:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] MinneBar on Saturday
In-Reply-To: <200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
	<200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <20070418164305.GA9242@refried.org>

On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 10:46:34AM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
> Who else is going to MinneBar this weekend?  If we have several people going 
> from TCLUG, we should try to meet up at some point.
> 
> http://barcamp.org/MinneBar

I'll be there.

Nate


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Apr 18 11:43:22 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:43:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] MinneBar on Saturday
In-Reply-To: <200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
	<200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30704180943k7adf134du41c27ded570b2a5f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/18/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
> Who else is going to MinneBar this weekend?

I'll be there for the free pizza and beer. And the presentations are
pretty good too! ;)


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Apr 18 12:00:56 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:00:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] MinneBar on Saturday
In-Reply-To: <200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
	<200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200704181200.56723.tclug@lizakowski.com>


I should also ask:  Is anyone from TCLUG presenting?  

MinneBar has an open format, so anyone can give a brief demo or presentation.  
If anyone here has a Linux-related topic to present, you should sign up for a 
slot, and let us know on the list so we can attend.

http://barcamp.org/MinneBarSessions	 //can be informal
http://barcamp.org/MinneBarDemos	//really informal - 10 minutes per person

Jeremy

> Who else is going to MinneBar this weekend?  If we have several people
> going from TCLUG, we should try to meet up at some point.
>
> http://barcamp.org/MinneBar
>
> Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From josh at tcbug.org  Wed Apr 18 11:39:03 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:39:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCBUG's May meeting
Message-ID: <20070418163903.GL56268@tcbug.org>

I don't normally (read that as ever) cross-post the Twin Cities BSD
User Group meetings to this list, but we did have one joint meeting
once that turned out really well I thought, and since the subject
matter of our May meeting is more linux than BSD I thought maybe some
of the TCLUGers would want to come on out and even show us a thing or
two.

Several of us have linksys wrt-54g type routers and are running
various forms of linux on them and we were going to do our next
meeting as sort of a show and tell of what sort of foulness is
possible with these little devices.

Our typical meeting night would be Tuesay May 15th, but we could be
flexible there if there was a ton of interest but that night just
wasn't going to work out.

The choice of venue sort of depends on turnout, so it would be nice to
get an idea of how many people are interested relatively soon.

If you would be interested in attending a meeting that was scheduled
from 6:30pm to 8:30-9:00pm on Tuesday the 15th of May in a centrally
located metro location (read that as somewhere in mpls) please let me
know either on-list or off. (josh at tcbug.org)

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From jack at jacku.com  Wed Apr 18 12:26:57 2007
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:26:57 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] MinneBar on Saturday
In-Reply-To: <200704181200.56723.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
	<200704181046.34648.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<200704181200.56723.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <2030.76.164.9.18.1176917217.squirrel@mail.highspeedrails.com>


>
> I should also ask:  Is anyone from TCLUG presenting?
>
> MinneBar has an open format, so anyone can give a brief demo or
> presentation.
> If anyone here has a Linux-related topic to present, you should sign up
> for a
> slot, and let us know on the list so we can attend.
>
> http://barcamp.org/MinneBarSessions	 //can be informal
> http://barcamp.org/MinneBarDemos	//really informal - 10 minutes per person
>
> Jeremy
>
>> Who else is going to MinneBar this weekend?  If we have several people
>> going from TCLUG, we should try to meet up at some point.
>>
>> http://barcamp.org/MinneBar
>>
>> Jeremy

I'll be there as well. Nate Straz and I are part of a Web Frameworks panel
discussion late in the day. That came about through some discussion on the
TCZPUG mailing list.

Jack


-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 18 15:33:06 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:33:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Asterisk IAX2 Phones?
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
References: <WorldClient-F200704171306.AA06180042@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70704181333m429d6ba3xa32fc3fa05f2531f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/07, Sean Waite <swaite at sbn-services.com> wrote:
>
>
> Wondering if I am alone out there in trying to find an IAX2 phone to use
> with Asterisk. I have currently Cisco SIP phones, but these are not ideal
> for remote locations. There are IAX2 phones out there, in fact if you are in
> China there seems to be numerous sources. One thing that does not build
> confidence are these companies and their phones do not seem to last too long
> on the market. In fact the phones I found doing a search 3 years ago, none
> are too be found along with a few of the MFRs. Currently all the Chinese
> manufacturers do not seem to have distribution in the US, while they do have
> FCC approval. The one company, can not remember which, that did list a
> contact in California was a bust. I called the 1-800 number and got some
> adult message that did not inspire confidence in this company. Softphones
> can work, but again these are not ideal for many applications.
>
>
> Anyone here done any searching for IAX2 phones I would love to hear what
> your conclusions are.
>
> Also, someone recently mentioned that there is an open source firmware for
> one phone that supports IAX2, unfortunately I lost the link. Anyone heard of
> this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Sean
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

I believe this may be the phone you are looking for:

http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+phone+Soyo+G668

I haven't used one myself but would be interested to hear feedback as
well.  I am planning on setting up a few remote extensions soon and
will be looking at either IAX2 phones or ATAs.


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From nospam at hiltonbsd.com  Wed Apr 18 13:59:42 2007
From: nospam at hiltonbsd.com (Stephen Hilton)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:59:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCBUG's May meeting
In-Reply-To: <20070418163903.GL56268@tcbug.org>
References: <20070418163903.GL56268@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <46266A9E.8060304@hiltonbsd.com>

Josh Paetzel wrote:
> I don't normally (read that as ever) cross-post the Twin Cities BSD
> User Group meetings to this list, but we did have one joint meeting
> once that turned out really well I thought, and since the subject
> matter of our May meeting is more linux than BSD I thought maybe some
> of the TCLUGers would want to come on out and even show us a thing or
> two.
>
> Several of us have linksys wrt-54g type routers and are running
> various forms of linux on them and we were going to do our next
> meeting as sort of a show and tell of what sort of foulness is
> possible with these little devices.
>
> Our typical meeting night would be Tuesay May 15th, but we could be
> flexible there if there was a ton of interest but that night just
> wasn't going to work out.
>
> The choice of venue sort of depends on turnout, so it would be nice to
> get an idea of how many people are interested relatively soon.
>
> If you would be interested in attending a meeting that was scheduled
> from 6:30pm to 8:30-9:00pm on Tuesday the 15th of May in a centrally
> located metro location (read that as somewhere in mpls) please let me
> know either on-list or off. (josh at tcbug.org)
>
>   
Sounds great Josh, looking forward to it. I am interested in adding a 
external SD/MMC card slot also.

-Stephen Hilton

P.S. Thanks Jeremy for posting the link to MinneBar!


From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Thu Apr 19 13:50:13 2007
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:50:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perl Gurus - IMAPClient
Message-ID: <4627B9E5.90003@cdf123.net>

Any perl gurus here?  I'm trying to write what should be a simple script 
that connects to an imap account, goes through all the folders and 
outputs a line for each folder that has unread messages with the number 
unread.  The trick is that I'm connecting to imap servers through SSL. 
This took a lot of googling and trial and error before I could finally 
connect.  But I finally got it to work last night on my mail server. 
But now I'm running into another problem.

I'm using IO::Socket::SSL to create the socket for Mail::IMAPClient to 
use.  This works fine when using localhost as the mail server.  But as 
soon as I use this over a network, it fails.  I can get connected, 
logged in, and even select the INBOX, but any time I try to access the 
$imap->folders() function, I get this error:

Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm line 2163, <GEN0> 
line 3.

I can't find anything on this one.  I've looked everywhere I can think 
of and changed a lot of things in the code to try to step around this. 
I'm really new to perl (this is my first script), and all the modules 
have been loaded through gentoo portage.  Has anyone here run into this, 
or can anyone give me a hand?

Thanks all,
Chris


From josh at radkeland.org  Thu Apr 19 14:44:29 2007
From: josh at radkeland.org (Joshua Radke)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:44:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perl Gurus - IMAPClient
In-Reply-To: <4627B9E5.90003@cdf123.net>
References: <4627B9E5.90003@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <4627C69D.4050407@radkeland.org>

Perl is a deep language, and oftentimes questions are more about using the
modules than they are about Perl in particular.  I'm sorry for the
(non)-answer, but your next step is to open the file mentioned
(/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm) and see why you
got the error (was the calling function supposed to have supplied an
argument?  Is there an error in the module that uninitializes the value
for some reason?).

This is one of the simplest examples of a problem that's soooooo much
easier to solve when the source is available.

If you'd like to send/post the script, we may be able to dig into it a
bit more ...



Chris Frederick wrote:
> Any perl gurus here?  I'm trying to write what should be a simple script 
> that connects to an imap account, goes through all the folders and 
> outputs a line for each folder that has unread messages with the number 
> unread.  I can get connected, 
> logged in, and even select the INBOX, but any time I try to access the 
> $imap->folders() function, I get this error:
>
> Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm line 2163, <GEN0> 
> line 3.
>
> I can't find anything on this one.  I've looked everywhere I can think 
> of and changed a lot of things in the code to try to step around this. 
> I'm really new to perl (this is my first script), and all the modules 
> have been loaded through gentoo portage.  Has anyone here run into this, 
> or can anyone give me a hand?
>
> Thanks all,
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Thu Apr 19 15:48:29 2007
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:48:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Perl Gurus - IMAPClient
In-Reply-To: <4627C69D.4050407@radkeland.org>
References: <4627B9E5.90003@cdf123.net> <4627C69D.4050407@radkeland.org>
Message-ID: <4627D59D.3030805@cdf123.net>

Here's the script.

This is what I'm seeing when I run it.  For the first test, I ran 
through ssh with 'ssh -L 993:localhost:993 192.168.1.1', and the next 
test I connect directly, and the last test is with -debug (users and 
passwords striped of course):

$ mailcheck.pl -host localhost -ssl
INBOX	3
/CRON	3
/JUNK	8

$ mailcheck.pl -host 192.168.1.1 -ssl
Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm line 2163, <GEN0> 
line 3.

$ mailcheck.pl -host 192.168.1.1 -ssl -debug
Autoloading: Authuser ##############
Sending: 1 Authuser ##############
Sent 19 bytes
Read: * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UIDPLUS CHILDREN NAMESPACE 
THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES SORT QUOTA IDLE AUTH=PLAIN] 
Courier-IMAP ready. Copyright 1998-2005 Double Precision, Inc.  See 
COPYING for distribution information.
Read: 1 NO Error in IMAP command received by server.
Sending literal string in two parts: 2 Login "##############" {8}
         then: ##############
Sending: 2 Login "XXXXXXXX" {8}
Sent 22 bytes
Read: + OK
Sending: ##############
Sent 10 bytes
Read: 2 OK LOGIN Ok.
Sending: 3 LIST "" *
Sent 13 bytes
Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm line 2163, <GEN0> 
line 3.

The offending line in IMAPClient.pm is here:

push @folders, $1||$2
   if $list[$m] =~
   /       ^\*\s+LIST               # * LIST
           \s+\([^\)]*\)\s+         # (Flags)
           (?:"[^"]*"|NIL)\s+>- # "delimiter" or NIL
           (?:"([^"]*)"|(.*))\x0d\x0a$  # Name or "Folder name"
   /ix;

I don't know enough about perl to know if it's just the 'push' line that 
is causing the error, or if it's somewhere in the entire block.  Nothing 
inside the pattern match looks dynamic, and the only thing I can think 
of is $list[m] is undef.  But $list[m] is inside a "for ($m = 0; $m < 
scalar(@list); $m++ )" and I don't see anything that could spontaneously 
unset it.

What bugs me about this is I'm connecting to the same server every time, 
and as long as I connect to localhost, through client forwarding or 
directly on the server, it works fine.  It's seems like the LIST command 
returns something that instantly kills the socket, but why would that 
change connecting to localhost?

Thanks for the help so far, even if it was a non-answer.
Maybe you can see something that I can't.

Chris

Joshua Radke wrote:
> Perl is a deep language, and oftentimes questions are more about using the
> modules than they are about Perl in particular.  I'm sorry for the
> (non)-answer, but your next step is to open the file mentioned
> (/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm) and see why you
> got the error (was the calling function supposed to have supplied an
> argument?  Is there an error in the module that uninitializes the value
> for some reason?).
> 
> This is one of the simplest examples of a problem that's soooooo much
> easier to solve when the source is available.
> 
> If you'd like to send/post the script, we may be able to dig into it a
> bit more ...
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Frederick wrote:
>> Any perl gurus here?  I'm trying to write what should be a simple script 
>> that connects to an imap account, goes through all the folders and 
>> outputs a line for each folder that has unread messages with the number 
>> unread.  I can get connected, 
>> logged in, and even select the INBOX, but any time I try to access the 
>> $imap->folders() function, I get this error:
>>
>> Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at 
>> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Mail/IMAPClient.pm line 2163, <GEN0> 
>> line 3.
>>
>> I can't find anything on this one.  I've looked everywhere I can think 
>> of and changed a lot of things in the code to try to step around this. 
>> I'm really new to perl (this is my first script), and all the modules 
>> have been loaded through gentoo portage.  Has anyone here run into this, 
>> or can anyone give me a hand?
>>
>> Thanks all,
>> Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From pcutler at foresightlinux.org  Fri Apr 20 07:25:27 2007
From: pcutler at foresightlinux.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:25:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement - May 2nd, 2007
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0704200525t21568452m6dfb8503e3221bcf@mail.gmail.com>

Mark your calendars! The Twin Cities Linux User Group is pleased to
announce two upcoming meetings:

Please feel free to forward this announcement.  After a brief hiatus,
we're excited to bring back regular meetings of the TCLUG.  The TCLUG
website will be updated soon with the event information as well.

Date: Wed., May 2nd
Time: 6:30 - 8:00
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Topics:

1. Welcome & Introduction
2. Linux on a USB Flash Drive  (Eric Peterson)
3. Getting involved (TCLUG information, future meetings & meeting
topics, volunteer to speak at a TCLUG meeting)

Food and drink are not allowed in the U of M classrooms.  For those
who would like to get to know each other a little better, we will be
heading out for food and drinks afterward. (Location TBD)  We invite
everyone to come along!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June Meeting (Tentative, more information at 5/2 meeting):

Date: Wed., June 7th
Time: 6:30 - 8:00
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Topics

1. Feedback from 5/2 meeting
2. Lightning talks:  We would like to provide short time slots (10 -
30 minutes) for any member to demonstrate a project or discuss a topic
with the group..  More information will be available at the May 2nd
meeting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Upcoming events are also viewable on the TCLUG Google Calendar:
http://tinyurl.com/2c5d8w (Requires a Google Account).

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact the
volunteer meeting organizers:

Paul Cutler (pcutler at foresightlinux.org)
Jeremy Lizakowski (tclug at Lizakowski.com)
Eric Peterson (srcfoo at gmail.com)
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From pcutler at foresightlinux.org  Fri Apr 20 09:35:32 2007
From: pcutler at foresightlinux.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:35:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: [tclug-announce] [Invitation] May TCLUG Meeting @
	Wed May 2 6:30pm - 8pm (1 hr & 30 mins)
In-Reply-To: <c09f986fee042e8a6985cd381aaca@gmail.com>
References: <c09f986fee042e8a6985cd381aaca@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0704200735r6fa7bb17u1ab66bedc0bff5ff@mail.gmail.com>

Here's the announcement in plain text.  While the Google Calendar invite is
useful for tracking who's coming (if you have a Google Account), I sure
don't like the format.  My apologies.

Mark your calendars! The Twin Cities Linux User Group is pleased to
announce two upcoming meetings.

Please feel free to forward this announcement.  After a brief hiatus,
we're excited to bring back regular meetings of the TCLUG.  The TCLUG
website will be updated soon with the event information as well.

Date: Wed., May 2nd
Time: 6:30 - 8:00
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Topics:

1. Welcome & Introduction
2. Linux on a USB Flash Drive  (Eric Peterson)
3. Getting involved (TCLUG information, future meetings & meeting
topics, volunteer to speak at a TCLUG meeting)

Food and drink are not allowed in the U of M classrooms.  For those
who would like to get to know each other a little better, we will be
heading out for food and drinks afterward. (Location TBD)  We invite
everyone to come along!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June Meeting (Tentative, more information at 5/2 meeting):

Date: Wed., June 7th
Time: 6:30 - 8:00
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Topics

1. Feedback from 5/2 meeting
2. Lightning talks:  We would like to provide short time slots (10 -
30 minutes) for any member to demonstrate a project or discuss a topic
with the group..  More information will be available at the May 2nd
meeting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Upcoming events are also viewable on the TCLUG Google Calendar:
http://tinyurl.com/2c5d8w (Requires a Google Account).

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact the
volunteer meeting organizers:

Paul Cutler (pcutler at foresightlinux.org
<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>)
Jeremy Lizakowski (tclug at Lizakowski.com
<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>)
Eric Peterson (srcfoo at gmail.com
<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Paul Cutler <silwenae at gmail.com>
Date: Apr 20, 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: [tclug-announce] [Invitation] May TCLUG Meeting @ Wed May 2 6:30pm
- 8pm (1 hr & 30 mins)
To: "tclug-announce at mn-linux.org" <tclug-announce at mn-linux.org>

<snip>
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From peter.chase at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 09:48:53 2007
From: peter.chase at gmail.com (Peter Chase)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:48:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] MySQL DBA Position
Message-ID: <e63a2c7d0704200748s607fd854n296a9171a8c1786b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Digital River in Eden Prairie (www.digitalriver.com) is currently looking
for a MySQL DBA.  I figured this would be a good place to get some bites.
If you are interested please forward your resume on to me.  Below is the job
description.

Responsibilities:

Setup, maintain, monitor and tune MySQL databases in a 24x7, high
availability environment
Work closely with developers on application design and to write efficient
SQL for databases
Backup and recover MySQL databases
Create and support scripts for use in daily tasks
Be in an on-call rotation (approximately every 6 to 7 weeks)

Qualifications:
Experience

Minimum 1 year of MySQL DBA experience
DBA experience with MySQL version 4 or higher
Experience with MySQL replication
Unix/Linux Operating System
Unix/Linux shell scripting (bash or korn)
Perl programming a plus
Application programming experience, a plus
Oracle DBA experience, a plus - must be willing to learn Oracle databases
Previous experience with e-commerce company, a plus

Knowledge/Skills

Good communication skills and a self starter
Must thrive in a fast paced environment with quick changing priorities

Education

4 year degree in computer related field, or equivalent work experience

-Pete
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Apr 20 13:24:06 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:24:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704201824.l3KIO6q21674@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Free Monitors

I have 9 monitors that I no longer have a need for.  A couple are 15", 1 is 19" the others are 17".

They are all free on a first come basis.

If interested you can call me at 952-897-7791 or email me at jstreit at welshco.com.

Thanks
Jim Streit

Seller Email address: jimstreit at northlans dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 20 14:33:32 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Spring Installfest at HCA
Message-ID: <289680.97971.qm@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Well, Doug Coats and I are willing to host another Installfest at HCA again this year.  Doug is currently working with the school to get approval, but I thought I should bring it up here to see what a good date would be.  Probably some time in June.  

I know some others have been talking about hosting one soon, but I've not seen anything official.



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 17:49:29 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:49:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Network device similar to Linksys + OpenWRT
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704201549i26fb0728w8128c171a2f855ed@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a project where I want a small router device. A Linksys
device that supported by OpenWRT would fit the bill, but I don't need
wireless. I'm not connecting to the internet or doing wireless access,
I'm just need some minor network management and a simple routing rule.

The network is a completely isolated network. There is no internet
access, the computers on the network are able to get data off a file
server, and that's about it.

The device only has to do DHCP for the clients (about 15), DNS for one
or two static servers, have a web interface for the less network geeky
folks, and have the ability to redirect all web requests to a custom
web page served up by the device or one of the servers on the isolated
network.

As I said, a Linksys device running OpenWRT could do everything just
fine. I'm curious to know if anyone is aware of other devices.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From ai9nl at arrl.net  Fri Apr 20 18:34:31 2007
From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:34:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0704201634i3fe34078m33464a9e93218826@mail.gmail.com>

IS it possible for an "ordinary" person like me to retrieve the GPS
info from a Cell phon.
> I'm thinking of hanging one of those cheapie prepaid walmart Variety TRACphones...on my puppy's harness.  the next time she takes off after a deer or kid on a bicycle. i'll be able to know exactlywhere she is with no chasing, yelling or crying by pluging the numbers into map quest or google earth. I can know exactly where she is and if I do it quickly enough ... how she got there.

thanks for any links, contacts or info.

harv
washburn, wi


From brockn at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 20:13:15 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:13:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0704201634i3fe34078m33464a9e93218826@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a470a5f0704201634i3fe34078m33464a9e93218826@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80704201813m530fe1edv1649c7092623d4aa@mail.gmail.com>

Some cell phones have gps, but not the cheapies.  Even with the ones
that do I doubt you could get it remotely.

There maybe a market for such a device...

Brock


On 4/20/07, Harv Nelson <ai9nl at arrl.net> wrote:
> IS it possible for an "ordinary" person like me to retrieve the GPS
> info from a Cell phon.
> > I'm thinking of hanging one of those cheapie prepaid walmart Variety
> TRACphones...on my puppy's harness.  the next time she takes off after a
> deer or kid on a bicycle. i'll be able to know exactlywhere she is with no
> chasing, yelling or crying by pluging the numbers into map quest or google
> earth. I can know exactly where she is and if I do it quickly enough ... how
> she got there.
>
> thanks for any links, contacts or info.
>
> harv
> washburn, wi
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
http://free-sailboat-listings.com
http://spamdefeator.com


From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Fri Apr 20 20:35:48 2007
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:35:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0704201634i3fe34078m33464a9e93218826@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a470a5f0704201634i3fe34078m33464a9e93218826@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070421013548.GA18168@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 06:34:31PM -0500, Harv Nelson wrote:
> IS it possible for an "ordinary" person like me to retrieve the GPS
> info from a Cell phon.
> > I'm thinking of hanging one of those cheapie prepaid walmart Variety TRACphones...on my puppy's harness.  the next time she takes off after a deer or kid on a bicycle. i'll be able to know exactlywhere she is with no chasing, yelling or crying by pluging the numbers into map quest or google earth. I can know exactly where she is and if I do it quickly enough ... how she got there.
> 

I suppose you could get the dog a license (ham license) :-)
and use something like this:

http://www.byonics.com/pockettracker/

Too bad the project cant be continued due to a lack of parts.

Kelly
KB0GBJ



From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Apr 21 01:55:11 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:55:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80704201813m530fe1edv1649c7092623d4aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEFECHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Brock Noland
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:13 PM
>
> Some cell phones have gps, but not the cheapies.  Even with the ones
> that do I doubt you could get it remotely.
>
> There maybe a market for such a device...
>
> Brock
>
>
> On 4/20/07, Harv Nelson <ai9nl at arrl.net> wrote:
> > IS it possible for an "ordinary" person like me to retrieve the GPS
> > info from a Cell phon.
> > > I'm thinking of hanging one of those cheapie prepaid
> walmart Variety
> > TRACphones...on my puppy's harness.  the next time she
> takes off after a
> > deer or kid on a bicycle. i'll be able to know exactlywhere
> she is with no
> > chasing, yelling or crying by pluging the numbers into map
> quest or google
> > earth. I can know exactly where she is and if I do it
> quickly enough ... how
> > she got there.
> >
> > thanks for any links, contacts or info.
> >
> > harv
> > washburn, wi


I checked into the GPS offered in a Verizon ad for phones that did GPS,
music, and photo storage.  One of my concerns was whether the phone
could provide GPS when off in the Boundary Waters and out of cell tower
reach.  Another concern was whether the phones provided actual lat/lon
coordinates.



The "GPS service" is NOT providing GPS coordinates to the phone user.
Their GPS works only through cell towers, and has none of the GPS
satellite data available to the phone user. It only supports their extra
cost map services.  The phones do not have actual GPS receivers
built-in: it's some funny business with cell tower signals, and they
call it "GPS".  I doubt that the towers are densely placed enough
outside major metro areas for that locator system to work, and their
extra cost maps probably don't go far outside of town either.  It seems
to be more like a Mapquest service to locate businesses.

The music storage and picture storage were dependent upon plug-in memory
cards that had not been made commercially available at the time of the
ads, and they had no availability schedule.  I asked whether the music
feature could work in the Boundary Waters away from towers, and what
storage capacity it would have.  They said the music system would not
work without a tower system in range, and did not work at all without
the memory card... same with photo storage.

Getting this data was very difficult.  I had to get deep into their
technical support department to get any credible answers at all.

I think there's another problem.  The locator system seems to be
"special access" like 911 services, and may require claiming an
emergency event to get any help at all.  There may be cost for
discovery/recovery by this means.

I think there are products that do true GPS locating, but I don't
believe cell phones presently do that for just anybody.  The amount of
BS about cell services is alarming!  I think it's false advertising.


Chuck





From thecubic at thecubic.net  Sat Apr 21 04:28:37 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 04:28:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <20070421013548.GA18168@localhost.localdomain>
References: <6a470a5f0704201634i3fe34078m33464a9e93218826@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070421013548.GA18168@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200704210428.37316.thecubic@thecubic.net>

Or something like this: (programmable GPS+GSM)

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7917

or, a leash :)

-Dave

On Friday 20 April 2007 20:35:48 Kelly Black wrote:
> I suppose you could get the dog a license (ham license) :-)
> and use something like this:
>
> http://www.byonics.com/pockettracker/
>
> Too bad the project cant be continued due to a lack of parts.



From ai9nl at arrl.net  Sat Apr 21 06:21:30 2007
From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:21:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEFECHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <741dcbb80704201813m530fe1edv1649c7092623d4aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEFECHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0704210421obb0aad2q8c36f14cf80890ce@mail.gmail.com>

then, I guess I'm back to Ham radio and the APRS sytem.  it'd work for
what I want to do, except that two dogs would have to run off
together.  one to carry the gps receiver, TNC and VHF tranceiver and
the other to carry the battery paks. and they don't much like each
other as it is. I was hoping the commercial guys had bested the hams
but, again, all capitalism means is hype.

harv

On 4/21/07, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Brock Noland
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:13 PM
> >
> > Some cell phones have gps, but not the cheapies.  Even with the ones
> > that do I doubt you could get it remotely.
> >
> > There maybe a market for such a device...
> >
> > Brock
> >
> >
> > On 4/20/07, Harv Nelson <ai9nl at arrl.net> wrote:
> > > IS it possible for an "ordinary" person like me to retrieve the GPS
> > > info from a Cell phon.
> > > > I'm thinking of hanging one of those cheapie prepaid
> > walmart Variety
> > > TRACphones...on my puppy's harness.  the next time she
> > takes off after a
> > > deer or kid on a bicycle. i'll be able to know exactlywhere
> > she is with no
> > > chasing, yelling or crying by pluging the numbers into map
> > quest or google
> > > earth. I can know exactly where she is and if I do it
> > quickly enough ... how
> > > she got there.
> > >
> > > thanks for any links, contacts or info.
> > >
> > > harv
> > > washburn, wi
>
>
> I checked into the GPS offered in a Verizon ad for phones that did GPS,
> music, and photo storage.  One of my concerns was whether the phone
> could provide GPS when off in the Boundary Waters and out of cell tower
> reach.  Another concern was whether the phones provided actual lat/lon
> coordinates.
>
>
>
> The "GPS service" is NOT providing GPS coordinates to the phone user.
> Their GPS works only through cell towers, and has none of the GPS
> satellite data available to the phone user. It only supports their extra
> cost map services.  The phones do not have actual GPS receivers
> built-in: it's some funny business with cell tower signals, and they
> call it "GPS".  I doubt that the towers are densely placed enough
> outside major metro areas for that locator system to work, and their
> extra cost maps probably don't go far outside of town either.  It seems
> to be more like a Mapquest service to locate businesses.
>
> The music storage and picture storage were dependent upon plug-in memory
> cards that had not been made commercially available at the time of the
> ads, and they had no availability schedule.  I asked whether the music
> feature could work in the Boundary Waters away from towers, and what
> storage capacity it would have.  They said the music system would not
> work without a tower system in range, and did not work at all without
> the memory card... same with photo storage.
>
> Getting this data was very difficult.  I had to get deep into their
> technical support department to get any credible answers at all.
>
> I think there's another problem.  The locator system seems to be
> "special access" like 911 services, and may require claiming an
> emergency event to get any help at all.  There may be cost for
> discovery/recovery by this means.
>
> I think there are products that do true GPS locating, but I don't
> believe cell phones presently do that for just anybody.  The amount of
> BS about cell services is alarming!  I think it's false advertising.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>


From jallen at allensservices.com  Sat Apr 21 08:44:31 2007
From: jallen at allensservices.com (Jereme Allen)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:44:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Seminar: Understanding the option of Linux
Message-ID: <3185c2db0704210644i17a59e3ag47d844296820b201@mail.gmail.com>

In the interest of full disclosure I am student at Metro State and volunteer
with TAOSE (Trusted Adoption of Open Source for the Enterprise).

I understand this group doesn't need to be lectured on the benefits of
Linux.  However, there is a seminar next Friday at MCTC in Minneapolis from
12-4 about Linux in the Enterprise that might be of interest to some on this
list.

I believe the seminar is free to students at Metro State (and possibly other
Universities, you might need to call them to verify).  I was told if anyone
registers from this list and enters TCLUG in the comments form they can get
in for $99 versus the posted $129 seminar fee.

Here's the condensed blurb about the seminar"

On Friday April 27, 2007, Kevin Anderson from Red Hat will present "Open
Source Operating Systems."   This seminar will tell the story of using Linux
in a business organization.  The seminar will also describe what open source
software is and will address the issues of security, technical support, open
source software development, return on investment, and how Linux works with
the other software you use continuously.


Here's the link for more information:

http://www.strategicit.org/

-- 
Jereme Allen
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From tclug at natecarlson.com  Sat Apr 21 12:02:03 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:02:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0704210421obb0aad2q8c36f14cf80890ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741dcbb80704201813m530fe1edv1649c7092623d4aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEFECHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<6a470a5f0704210421obb0aad2q8c36f14cf80890ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704211201310.27997@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Harv Nelson wrote:
> then, I guess I'm back to Ham radio and the APRS sytem.  it'd work for 
> what I want to do, except that two dogs would have to run off together. 
> one to carry the gps receiver, TNC and VHF tranceiver and the other to 
> carry the battery paks. and they don't much like each other as it is. I 
> was hoping the commercial guys had bested the hams but, again, all 
> capitalism means is hype.

Well, you could always get one of the PocketPC phones with an integrated 
GPS.. I dunno how much dog it would stand, though - mine would last under 
a minute with my pup.  :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jereme.goblue at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 13:22:32 2007
From: jereme.goblue at gmail.com (Jereme Allen)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:22:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Seminar: Understanding the option of Linux
Message-ID: <3185c2db0704211122tcff3d93r8e7974e07441a0b2@mail.gmail.com>

In the interest of full disclosure I am student at Metro State and volunteer
with TAOSE (Trusted Adoption of Open Source for the Enterprise).

I understand this group doesn't need to be lectured on the benefits of
Linux.  However, there is a seminar next Friday at MCTC in Minneapolis from
12-4 about Linux in the Enterprise that might be of interest to some on this
list.

I believe the seminar is free to students at Metro State (and possibly other
Universities, you might need to call them to verify).  If anyone registers
from this list and enters TCLUG in the comments form, they can get in for
$99 versus the posted $129 seminar fee.

Here's the condensed blurb about the seminar"

On Friday April 27, 2007, Kevin Anderson from Red Hat will present "Open
Source Operating Systems."   This seminar will tell the story of using Linux
in a business organization.  The seminar will also describe what open source
software is and will address the issues of security, technical support, open
source software development, return on investment, and how Linux works with
the other software you use continuously.


Here's the link for more information:

http://www.strategicit.org/

-- 
Jereme Allen
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From silwenae at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 07:25:17 2007
From: silwenae at gmail.com (Paul Cutler)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 05:25:17 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] [Invitation] May TCLUG Meeting @ Wed May 2 6:30pm -
	8pm (1 hr & 30 mins)
Message-ID: <c09f8a531e042e8a69810bea1a9ab@gmail.com>

tclug-list at mn-linux.org, you are invited to

  Title: May TCLUG Meeting
  Time: Wed May 2 6:30pm - 8pm (1 hr & 30 mins) (Central Time)
  Where: University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
  Description: Mark your calendars! The Twin Cities Linux User Group is pleased to announce two upcoming meetings:

Please feel free to forward this announcement.  After a brief hiatus, we&#39;re excited to bring back regular meetings of the TCLUG.  The TCLUG website will be updated soon with the event information as well.

Date: Wed., May 2nd
Time: 6:30 - 8:00
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455 
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Topics:

1. Welcome &amp; Introduction
2. Linux on a USB Flash Drive  (Eric Peterson)
3. Getting involved (TCLUG information, future meetings &amp; meeting topics, volunteer to speak at a TCLUG meeting)

Food and drink are not allowed in the U of M classrooms.  For those who would like to get to know each other a little better, we will be heading out for food and drinks afterward. (Location TBD)  We invite everyone to come along!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June Meeting (Tentative, more information at 5/2 meeting):

Date: Wed., June 7th
Time: 6:30 - 8:00
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455 
(Google Map:  http://tinyurl.com/2omnv6)

Topics

1. Feedback from 5/2 meeting
2. Lightning talks:  We would like to provide short time slots (10 - 30 minutes) for any member to demonstrate a project or discuss a topic with the group..  More information will be available at the May 2nd meeting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Upcoming events are also viewable on the TCLUG Google Calendar: http://tinyurl.com/2c5d8w (Requires a Google Account).

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact the volunteer meeting organizers:

Paul Cutler (pcutler at foresightlinux.org)
Jeremy Lizakowski (tclug at Lizakowski.com)
Eric Peterson (srcfoo at gmail.com)



You can view this event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=a2JjbmxxN3JqMGQ1ZThuNmI0MTFoaDVhc2sgdGNsdWctbGlzdEBtbi1saW51eC5vcmc&tok=MTgjc2lsd2VuYWVAZ21haWwuY29tNTAzOGEyMTFmOTg0MTZkOTgxMDEzMGI3NWViODQxNGZkZGYwZTNkOA&ctz=America%2FChicago&hl=en
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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 21 20:06:49 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:06:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704211201310.27997@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <530567.59621.qm@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Try RocketHunter.com.  We use these to track our rockets.  Transmits for several miles.  A single battery can last a week.  Transmitters are about the size of a 9 volt battery and costs $125.  Receivers are a bit pricey. $500 with a Yaggi hand held antenna.

Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote: On Sat, 21 Apr 2007, Harv Nelson wrote:
> then, I guess I'm back to Ham radio and the APRS sytem.  it'd work for 
> what I want to do, except that two dogs would have to run off together. 
> one to carry the gps receiver, TNC and VHF tranceiver and the other to 
> carry the battery paks. and they don't much like each other as it is. I 
> was hoping the commercial guys had bested the hams but, again, all 
> capitalism means is hype.

Well, you could always get one of the PocketPC phones with an integrated 
GPS.. I dunno how much dog it would stand, though - mine would last under 
a minute with my pup.  :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From joey.rockhold at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 11:35:28 2007
From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:35:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] CompUSA closing
Message-ID: <101e49ea0704220935n2a2314a1k6022dd3516a0d528@mail.gmail.com>

Thought I would pass this note on to everyone:

The CompUSA store in Bloomington is closing.  I found this out yesterday,
and judging by how bare the store is, they've been closing out for a while.
There are a few tables with lots of parts, couple of motherboards, etc.
Laptop cases, laptops, peripherals, etc.  Probably the biggest deal there
was Windows Vista editions for 40% off (Ultimate edition was $240 vs. $400),
and the other software (games) they had there are all discounted also.

Might be some treasures to go look at.

- Joey
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From robbyt at robbyt.net  Sun Apr 22 11:46:36 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:46:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] CompUSA closing
In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0704220935n2a2314a1k6022dd3516a0d528@mail.gmail.com>
References: <101e49ea0704220935n2a2314a1k6022dd3516a0d528@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f663090704220946h65652f86v6ac322842ce4523a@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/07, Joey Rockhold <joey.rockhold at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thought I would pass this note on to everyone:
>
> The CompUSA store in Bloomington is closing.  I found this out yesterday,
> and judging by how bare the store is, they've been closing out for a while.
> There are a few tables with lots of parts, couple of motherboards, etc.
> Laptop cases, laptops, peripherals, etc.  Probably the biggest deal there
> was Windows Vista editions for 40% off (Ultimate edition was $240 vs. $400),
> and the other software (games) they had there are all discounted also.
>
> Might be some treasures to go look at.
>
> - Joey

<cough!> vista on the LUG list? has the whole world gone soft??


note to any potential hardware buyers: no returns, and potentially no
exchanges, so hope your new compusa purchase works correctly!


From jj at thescottproject.com  Sun Apr 22 11:50:24 2007
From: jj at thescottproject.com (JJ Scott)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:50:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Network device similar to Linksys + OpenWRT
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704201549i26fb0728w8128c171a2f855ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <024c01c784fe$5257e4c0$3200000a@rogue>

I am thinking of replacing my gateway machine ( which provides a similar
function ) with a box running the x86 version of dd-wrt.

J.J.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org 
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Zbikowski
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:49 PM
> To: tclug
> Subject: [tclug-list] Network device similar to Linksys + OpenWRT
> 
> I've got a project where I want a small router device. A 
> Linksys device that supported by OpenWRT would fit the bill, 
> but I don't need wireless. I'm not connecting to the internet 
> or doing wireless access, I'm just need some minor network 
> management and a simple routing rule.
> 
> The network is a completely isolated network. There is no 
> internet access, the computers on the network are able to get 
> data off a file server, and that's about it.
> 
> The device only has to do DHCP for the clients (about 15), 
> DNS for one or two static servers, have a web interface for 
> the less network geeky folks, and have the ability to 
> redirect all web requests to a custom web page served up by 
> the device or one of the servers on the isolated network.
> 
> As I said, a Linksys device running OpenWRT could do 
> everything just fine. I'm curious to know if anyone is aware 
> of other devices.
> 
> --
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us SELECT * FROM 
> users WHERE clue >0; 0 rows returned
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> !DSPAM:500,462944a736087785049143!
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release 
> Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM
>  
> 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007
11:56 AM
 



From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sun Apr 22 12:13:31 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:13:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
Message-ID: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

I'm hoping someone on the list has some experience with this or knows
where to look.

I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?

An example of the recording can be found at
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac

Any help would be appreciated.  The recording is of a memorial service
and I have someone that was unable to be there that I'd really like to
get a copy to.  Thanks.


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From robbyt at robbyt.net  Sun Apr 22 13:09:51 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:09:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <1f663090704221109i7d595583qffadd59f9c26563@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> I'm hoping someone on the list has some experience with this or knows
> where to look.
>
> I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
> So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
> the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
> used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?
>
> An example of the recording can be found at
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac
>
> Any help would be appreciated.  The recording is of a memorial service
> and I have someone that was unable to be there that I'd really like to
> get a copy to.  Thanks.
>

I can think of two ways to do this:

method one: the cheap/free way (that might not work so well..)
get a copy of audacity, isolate a block of the noise that you wish to
eliminate. copy it onto a different track, and repeate the noise
sample though out the entire recording. invert the noise sample track.
line up the noise sample track so that the clicks are synchronized
across the two tracks. this might or might not result with a sort of
psuedo "active" noise cancelation of the clicks.

method two: the proprietary software way:
get the audacity VST enabler plugin (windows only) and then "obtain" a
copy of the Waves Platnium VST bundle (again, windows only)

there's several plugins in the set for noise reduction that work
fantastically; x-click or x-noise might work well for you. x-noise can
sample a section of noise and build it's anti-noise profile based on
that. rtfm ;)

good luck!


From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Sun Apr 22 13:04:43 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:04:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <25284.192.168.0.7.1177265083.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>


Jon Schewe wrote:
> I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
> So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
> the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
> used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?

Try Gnome Wave Cleaner http://gwc.sourceforge.net/ or Audacity.


-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sun Apr 22 14:20:04 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:20:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704221109i7d595583qffadd59f9c26563@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<1f663090704221109i7d595583qffadd59f9c26563@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1177269604.2689.18.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Sun, 2007-04-22 at 13:09 -0500, Rob Terhaar wrote:
> On 4/22/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > I'm hoping someone on the list has some experience with this or knows
> > where to look.
> >
> > I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
> > So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
> > the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
> > used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?
> >
> > An example of the recording can be found at
> > http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.  The recording is of a memorial service
> > and I have someone that was unable to be there that I'd really like to
> > get a copy to.  Thanks.
> >
> 
> I can think of two ways to do this:
> 
> method one: the cheap/free way (that might not work so well..)
> get a copy of audacity, isolate a block of the noise that you wish to
> eliminate. copy it onto a different track, and repeate the noise
> sample though out the entire recording. invert the noise sample track.
> line up the noise sample track so that the clicks are synchronized
> across the two tracks. this might or might not result with a sort of
> psuedo "active" noise cancelation of the clicks.
> 

What's a good way to repeat the section throughout the track?  It is
happening at regular intervals, so that should make it easier.


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From robbyt at robbyt.net  Sun Apr 22 17:50:29 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:50:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <1177269604.2689.18.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<1f663090704221109i7d595583qffadd59f9c26563@mail.gmail.com>
	<1177269604.2689.18.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <1f663090704221550w4827aba8gb2bbdaa8c262f797@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-04-22 at 13:09 -0500, Rob Terhaar wrote:
> > On 4/22/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > > I'm hoping someone on the list has some experience with this or knows
> > > where to look.
> > >
> > > I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
> > > So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
> > > the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
> > > used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?
> > >
> > > An example of the recording can be found at
> > > http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated.  The recording is of a memorial service
> > > and I have someone that was unable to be there that I'd really like to
> > > get a copy to.  Thanks.
> > >
> >
> > I can think of two ways to do this:
> >
> > method one: the cheap/free way (that might not work so well..)
> > get a copy of audacity, isolate a block of the noise that you wish to
> > eliminate. copy it onto a different track, and repeate the noise
> > sample though out the entire recording. invert the noise sample track.
> > line up the noise sample track so that the clicks are synchronized
> > across the two tracks. this might or might not result with a sort of
> > psuedo "active" noise cancelation of the clicks.
> >
>
> What's a good way to repeat the section throughout the track?  It is
> happening at regular intervals, so that should make it easier.
>

bit difficult to explain via text, but you can copy/paste a section
repeatedly as a 2nd track in audacity-

if the click is happening at a regular interval, grab a complete
single interval (with no vocals) and use the 'duplicate' feature. this
should dump one cycle off to another track. if you then copy/paste
this cycle, it should (hopefully) get close to lining up with each
consecutive click in the main track. then comes the inversion of your
noise track. like i said previously, there's a great chance that this
may not work! :)


From obelin23 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 18:40:28 2007
From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:40:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
Message-ID: <72278d10704221640i54268c2dq48dc037e9ffaf2ae@mail.gmail.com>

There's a command-line Linux program named gramofile -
http://www.opensourcepartners.nl/~costar/gramofile/ - that is designed to
remove clicks and pops from recordings.

It's mostly designed to work with older tapes and vinyl records, but it does
have click removal filters.

I used it in a 3-step process, with some vinyl recordings from the late
1950's that were "well loved", with a lot of pops and general distortion.
(Recordings of a high-school choir - I did the cleanup for a member of the
choir.)

Phase One - transfer it to digital files on your PC
Phase Two - run it through one or more of the gramofile filters.  That
should take care of most of the clicks
Phase Three - Bring it into an audio editor like Audacity for some hand
cleanup, if there are any clicks that were missed. If you zoom in on the
wave form, the clicks should stand out like spikes.

You might also want to tweak the eq, depending on the recording. On the
vinyl tracks I cleaned up, most of the worst of the static was in a
different eq range than the music, so by adjusting eq I could filter almost
all of it out.

End result for me, was that some old, almost unlistenable vinyl records
ended up a listenable  CD.

I hope this helps.

Charlie

Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:13:31 -0500
> From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <1177262011.2689.13.camel at jon.mn.mtu.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'm hoping someone on the list has some experience with this or knows
> where to look.
>
> I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
> So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
> the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
> used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?
>
> An example of the recording can be found at
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac
>
> Any help would be appreciated.  The recording is of a memorial service
> and I have someone that was unable to be there that I'd really like to
> get a copy to.  Thanks.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
> Society
> Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
> signature.
> See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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>
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Sun Apr 22 19:03:07 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:03:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1451.1177282272.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1451.1177282272.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <001201c7853a$c714e060$6517a8c0@piv17>

> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:13:31 -0500
> From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>

> An example of the recording can be found at
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac

Wow, Jon. That's just awful. The sound seems to be repetitive, but not
enough to be easy to remove. It's SO loud and the signal is SO soft that
this is going to be MAJOR work.

I've tried to do just this kind of thing, and while I'm no professional, it
would take me a week to begin to even understand the words. If you just want
a transcript, that's one thing. If you want to recover the speech, you are
in a world of hurt.

It's really, truly, horrendous. I'm guessing professionals would charge you
by the hour and still not guarantee anything.

Hoping I'm wrong,
Chris



From robbyt at robbyt.net  Sun Apr 22 19:13:06 2007
From: robbyt at robbyt.net (Rob Terhaar)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:13:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <001201c7853a$c714e060$6517a8c0@piv17>
References: <mailman.1451.1177282272.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<001201c7853a$c714e060$6517a8c0@piv17>
Message-ID: <1f663090704221713x6abd4559ud7e08b93661a7c1e@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/07, Chris Schumann <cschumann at twp-llc.com> wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:13:31 -0500
> > From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>
>
> > An example of the recording can be found at
> > http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac
>
> Wow, Jon. That's just awful. The sound seems to be repetitive, but not
> enough to be easy to remove. It's SO loud and the signal is SO soft that
> this is going to be MAJOR work.
>
> I've tried to do just this kind of thing, and while I'm no professional, it
> would take me a week to begin to even understand the words. If you just want
> a transcript, that's one thing. If you want to recover the speech, you are
> in a world of hurt.
>
> It's really, truly, horrendous. I'm guessing professionals would charge you
> by the hour and still not guarantee anything.
>
> Hoping I'm wrong,
> Chris
>

yeah I agree, this is past the point of being able to rescue.


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sun Apr 22 20:25:36 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:25:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <1f663090704221713x6abd4559ud7e08b93661a7c1e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1451.1177282272.2107.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<001201c7853a$c714e060$6517a8c0@piv17>
	<1f663090704221713x6abd4559ud7e08b93661a7c1e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1177291536.2689.25.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

On Sun, 2007-04-22 at 19:13 -0500, Rob Terhaar wrote:
> On 4/22/07, Chris Schumann <cschumann at twp-llc.com> wrote:
> > > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:13:31 -0500
> > > From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>
> >
> > > An example of the recording can be found at
> > > http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac
> >
> > Wow, Jon. That's just awful. The sound seems to be repetitive, but not
> > enough to be easy to remove. It's SO loud and the signal is SO soft that
> > this is going to be MAJOR work.
> >
> > I've tried to do just this kind of thing, and while I'm no professional, it
> > would take me a week to begin to even understand the words. If you just want
> > a transcript, that's one thing. If you want to recover the speech, you are
> > in a world of hurt.
> >
> > It's really, truly, horrendous. I'm guessing professionals would charge you
> > by the hour and still not guarantee anything.
> >
> > Hoping I'm wrong,
> > Chris
> >
> 
> yeah I agree, this is past the point of being able to rescue.

I was afraid of that.  It's one of those mini cassette recorders with a
built in mic and the motor on the recorder is bad and so it clicks every
time the wheel goes around.  Since it's inside the recorder it's much
louder than anything picked up. 


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 21:17:09 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:17:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Network device similar to Linksys + OpenWRT
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704201549i26fb0728w8128c171a2f855ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e3a54b020704201549i26fb0728w8128c171a2f855ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704221917s363be952kc433442ed113ab41@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/20/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
> As I said, a Linksys device running OpenWRT could do everything just
> fine. I'm curious to know if anyone is aware of other devices.

I'm not aware of any non-wireless devices that'll run OpenWRT or
dd-wrt.  I was faced with this same dilemma last fall and after not
being able to find anything, I finally ended up deploying several
WRT54GLs at our branch offices - I just removed their antennas and
turned off the radio.  As expected, they've been rock-solid stable so
far.

-Erik


From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Mon Apr 23 10:43:31 2007
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:43:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some audio help
In-Reply-To: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1177262011.2689.13.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <462C8DAA.9190.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>

I wish I knew more about audio hardware and software in Linux, but the small effort I gave my one audio project did not pan out.

I did use a piece free (though there is a "masters edition" version available for purchase) windows software title WavePad (http://www.nch.com.au/wavepad/) and it seemed to clean up what I had on tape reasonably well.

Let us know if you find something that works well for you, and good luck!

>>> Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> 4/22/2007 12:13 PM >>>
I'm hoping someone on the list has some experience with this or knows
where to look.

I've got a tape recording where a tape player was used that clicks bad.
So the recording I want appears to be on the tape very quietly, however
the clicking is so loud because the internal mic on the recorder was
used.  Does anyone have a good idea on how to remove these clicks?

An example of the recording can be found at
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe/remove_clicks.flac 

Any help would be appreciated.  The recording is of a memorial service
and I have someone that was unable to be there that I'd really like to
get a copy to.  Thanks.


________________________________________________________________________

Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe 
Help Jen and I fight cancer by donating to the Leukemia & Lymphomia
Society
Here's our website: http://www.active.com/donate/tntmn/tntmnJSchewe 
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org ( http://www.gnupg.org/ ) for more information.






From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Mon Apr 23 21:32:07 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:32:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird->vnc copy/paste
Message-ID: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>

i quite often find myself using thunderbird on the local machine but 
firefox on some other machine via vnc, with twm as my window manager.  
twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
recovery of screen RE.  firefox via vnc because of mozilla bloat and old 
machines, and so i can continue the same session regardless that i am 
constantly travelling from one screen to another.

the accordant annoyance with this arrangement is that neither a 
thunderbird copy operation, nor an X selection on a thunderbird window, 
are available within VNC for pasting.  vice versa works fine.  so to 
make the hop from thunderbird to vnc i paste in an xterm, re-select 
there, then paste in vnc.

i would prefer something a bit less cumbersome, though not at the 
expense of either kde or gnome bloat.  any suggestion?

one of the best solutions i have is to also run thunderbird in the vnc 
window.  that works, though still begs the question for other apps i run 
outside of vnc.  and there are a couple small problems with running 
thunderbird that way, one being bloat on old machines (thunderbird and 
firefox together just too much), and another being i get completely 
different fonts in the thunderbird window inside vnc.  i suppose the 
latter problem might have a solution if i go hunting to see where the 
different font defaults come from inside versus outside of vnc.

tia,
greg wm


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Apr 23 22:14:50 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:14:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird->vnc copy/paste
In-Reply-To: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704232214170.22052@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, greg wm wrote:

> i quite often find myself using thunderbird on the local machine but 
> firefox on some other machine via vnc, with twm as my window manager. 
> twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
> recovery of screen RE.  firefox via vnc because of mozilla bloat and old 
> machines, and so i can continue the same session regardless that i am 
> constantly travelling from one screen to another.
>
> the accordant annoyance with this arrangement is that neither a 
> thunderbird copy operation, nor an X selection on a thunderbird window, 
> are available within VNC for pasting.  vice versa works fine.  so to 
> make the hop from thunderbird to vnc i paste in an xterm, re-select 
> there, then paste in vnc.
>
> i would prefer something a bit less cumbersome, though not at the 
> expense of either kde or gnome bloat.  any suggestion?


Are you using autocutsel?  Google for it.  It solves a lot of these 
problems for VNC.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Apr 23 22:15:50 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:15:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird->vnc copy/paste
In-Reply-To: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704232215360.22897@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, greg wm wrote:

> i quite often find myself using thunderbird on the local machine but 
> firefox on some other machine via vnc, with twm as my window manager. 
> twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
> recovery of screen RE.  firefox via vnc because of mozilla bloat and old 
> machines, and so i can continue the same session regardless that i am 
> constantly travelling from one screen to another.
>
> the accordant annoyance with this arrangement is that neither a 
> thunderbird copy operation, nor an X selection on a thunderbird window, 
> are available within VNC for pasting.  vice versa works fine.  so to 
> make the hop from thunderbird to vnc i paste in an xterm, re-select 
> there, then paste in vnc.
>
> i would prefer something a bit less cumbersome, though not at the 
> expense of either kde or gnome bloat.  any suggestion?

Are you using autocutsel?  Google for it.  It solves a lot of these 
problems for VNC.

Mike


From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Mon Apr 23 22:29:52 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:29:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] paste&goto-url button?
In-Reply-To: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <462D79B0.20400@greatlakedata.com>


> the accordant annoyance with this arrangement is that neither a 
> thunderbird copy operation, nor an X selection on a thunderbird window, 
> are available within VNC for pasting.
even if this problem gets a solution, i doubt it will include the 
capability to click a link in thunderbird and thereby bring up a page in 
the firefox running within vnc.

for that, the best i can imagine might be an extension that implements a 
toolbar button that does both paste and goto-url operations all in one 
click.  anyone heard of such a button?


From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Mon Apr 23 22:44:38 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:44:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] paste&goto-url button?
In-Reply-To: <462D79B0.20400@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
	<462D79B0.20400@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <49198.192.168.0.7.1177386278.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>


greg wm wrote:
>
>> the accordant annoyance with this arrangement is that neither a
>> thunderbird copy operation, nor an X selection on a thunderbird window,
>> are available within VNC for pasting.
> even if this problem gets a solution, i doubt it will include the
> capability to click a link in thunderbird and thereby bring up a page in
> the firefox running within vnc.

when you run "firefox http://domain.com", how does it communicate with the
firefox instance already running?  If its using sockets, perhaps you can
use ssh and port forwarding to tunnel things through to the system that
firefox is running on.

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Tue Apr 24 01:42:14 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:42:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] focus interruptus
Message-ID: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>

> twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
> recovery of screen RE.
o&i forgot to mention, twm is the only wm i'm aware allows me to 
(mostly) prevent new windows from stealing focus until i'm ready.  have 
you never been typing along, only to have a popup arrive, and get 
dismissed quicker than a blink by whatever you were typing?  twm allows 
that a new window won't set until i click.  lemme know if i'm missing 
something, otherwise after all these years i remain amazed this gap 
still remains in the prevalent window paradigm.


From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Tue Apr 24 01:55:34 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:55:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird->vnc copy/paste
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704232215360.22897@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0704232215360.22897@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <462DA9E6.3060109@greatlakedata.com>

> Are you using autocutsel?  Google for it.  It solves a lot of these 
> problems for VNC.

ty!
-g


From josh at tcbug.org  Tue Apr 24 11:18:14 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:18:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] focus interruptus
In-Reply-To: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <20070424161814.GD56268@tcbug.org>

greg wm wrote:
> > twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
> > recovery of screen RE.
> o&i forgot to mention, twm is the only wm i'm aware allows me to 
> (mostly) prevent new windows from stealing focus until i'm ready.  have 
> you never been typing along, only to have a popup arrive, and get 
> dismissed quicker than a blink by whatever you were typing?  twm allows 
> that a new window won't set until i click.  lemme know if i'm missing 
> something, otherwise after all these years i remain amazed this gap 
> still remains in the prevalent window paradigm.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

It's a toggle in xfce4 under window manager/focus in the
configuration.  "Automatically give focus to newly created windows"

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Tue Apr 24 11:46:03 2007
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:46:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] focus interruptus
In-Reply-To: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <1177433163.11141.1186317997@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Any self-respecting wm is able to do this.


----- Original message -----
From: "greg wm" <tclug at greatlakedata.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:42:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] focus interruptus

> twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
> recovery of screen RE.
o&i forgot to mention, twm is the only wm i'm aware allows me to 
(mostly) prevent new windows from stealing focus until i'm ready.  have 
you never been typing along, only to have a popup arrive, and get 
dismissed quicker than a blink by whatever you were typing?  twm allows 
that a new window won't set until i click.  lemme know if i'm missing 
something, otherwise after all these years i remain amazed this gap 
still remains in the prevalent window paradigm.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Tue Apr 24 13:14:33 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:14:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] paste&goto-url button?
In-Reply-To: <49198.192.168.0.7.1177386278.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>	<462D79B0.20400@greatlakedata.com>
	<49198.192.168.0.7.1177386278.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>
Message-ID: <462E4909.9030804@greatlakedata.com>

Kathryn Hogg wrote:
> greg wm wrote:
>   
>>> the accordant annoyance with this arrangement is that neither a
>>> thunderbird copy operation, nor an X selection on a thunderbird window,
>>> are available within VNC for pasting.
>>>       
>> even if this problem gets a solution, i doubt it will include the
>> capability to click a link in thunderbird and thereby bring up a page in
>> the firefox running within vnc.
>>     
> when you run "firefox http://domain.com", how does it communicate with the
> firefox instance already running?  If its using sockets, perhaps you can
> use ssh and port forwarding to tunnel things through to the system that
> firefox is running on.
>   
well vnc is running via ssh and port forwarding, and firefox was 
launched inside there, but it's compelling to think that just specifying 
another port to be forwarded could open a channel to firefox.  do you 
see clear how that would actually work?


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Apr 24 17:21:00 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:21:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] paste&goto-url button?
In-Reply-To: <462E4909.9030804@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462D6C27.2010100@greatlakedata.com>
	<462D79B0.20400@greatlakedata.com>
	<49198.192.168.0.7.1177386278.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>
	<462E4909.9030804@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704241714450.11167@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007, greg wm wrote:

>> when you run "firefox http://domain.com", how does it communicate with 
>> the firefox instance already running?  If its using sockets, perhaps 
>> you can use ssh and port forwarding to tunnel things through to the 
>> system that firefox is running on.
>
> well vnc is running via ssh and port forwarding, and firefox was 
> launched inside there, but it's compelling to think that just specifying 
> another port to be forwarded could open a channel to firefox.  do you 
> see clear how that would actually work?


Can you run a remote procedure call (RPC)?  I think there are ways to do 
it with SSH without having to code it from scratch.  If you are C 
programmer, there's always this:

man rpc
man rpc_secure

Mike


From josh at tcbug.org  Tue Apr 24 19:11:23 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:11:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] May TCBUG Meeting
Message-ID: <20070425001123.GI56268@tcbug.org>

The May TCBUG meeting is going to be on Thursday May 17th from 6:30pm
to 9pm-ish.
 
Topic: 101 Things you can do with a linksys WRT-54G after you've
replaced the stock firmware
 
Meeting Location:  Advantage Labs.
 		   2104 Stevens Ave.
 		   Minneapolis, MN 55404
 
Directions:
http://maps.google.com/?q=2104+Stevens+Avenue%2C+Minneapolis%2C+MN%2C+55404%2C+us
 
There is internet available and plenty of space at the meeting.  Feel
free to bring your WRT-54G to show it off.  It's going to be sort of a
show and tell format so feel free to demo what you've done with one of
these amazing little devices. :)
 
Please note that the date has changed!  It's not on Tuesday the 15th due to
meeting space availability.
 
Also, huge thanks to Advantage Labs for providing the venue.
 
-- 
Thanks,
 
Josh Paetzel


From tclug at greatlakedata.com  Tue Apr 24 23:30:26 2007
From: tclug at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:30:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] focus interruptus
In-Reply-To: <1177433163.11141.1186317997@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>
	<1177433163.11141.1186317997@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <462ED962.5000004@greatlakedata.com>

might you care to share any of the respective self-respecting 
details/clues?  (in twm new windows await a click before receiving 
focus, unless the RandomPlacement option was given.)

Isaac Atilano wrote:
> Any self-respecting wm is able to do this.
> 
> From: "greg wm" <tclug at greatlakedata.com>
>> twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
>> recovery of screen RE.
> o&i forgot to mention, twm is the only wm i'm aware allows me to 
> (mostly) prevent new windows from stealing focus until i'm ready.  have 
> you never been typing along, only to have a popup arrive, and get 
> dismissed quicker than a blink by whatever you were typing?  twm allows 
> that a new window won't set until i click.  lemme know if i'm missing 
> something, otherwise after all these years i remain amazed this gap 
> still remains in the prevalent window paradigm.


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Wed Apr 25 00:31:50 2007
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:31:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] focus interruptus
In-Reply-To: <462ED962.5000004@greatlakedata.com>
References: <462DA6C6.70501@greatlakedata.com>
	<1177433163.11141.1186317997@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<462ED962.5000004@greatlakedata.com>
Message-ID: <1177479110.22271.1186424511@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Certainly Greg. The two I now use most often are xfwm (in Xfce4) and
fvwm.
As has already been stated by another member of the list, you can turn
off focus-stealing in Xfce4 by going to Window Manager Settings and
unchecking the "Automatically give focus to newly created windows"
checkbox.
In fvwm you can turn off focus-stealing by putting this in your fvwm
config file (commonly ~/.fvwm/.fvwm2rc):
Style * GrabFocusOff


----- Original message -----
From: "greg wm" <tclug at greatlakedata.com>
To: "Isaac Atilano" <aristophrenic at warpmail.net>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:30:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] focus interruptus

might you care to share any of the respective self-respecting 
details/clues?  (in twm new windows await a click before receiving 
focus, unless the RandomPlacement option was given.)

Isaac Atilano wrote:
> Any self-respecting wm is able to do this.
> 
> From: "greg wm" <tclug at greatlakedata.com>
>> twm because of the tiny footprint, versatile icon placement, and 
>> recovery of screen RE.
> o&i forgot to mention, twm is the only wm i'm aware allows me to 
> (mostly) prevent new windows from stealing focus until i'm ready.  have 
> you never been typing along, only to have a popup arrive, and get 
> dismissed quicker than a blink by whatever you were typing?  twm allows 
> that a new window won't set until i click.  lemme know if i'm missing 
> something, otherwise after all these years i remain amazed this gap 
> still remains in the prevalent window paradigm.


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Apr 25 10:05:16 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:05:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
Message-ID: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>

I am looking at putting together a homemade NAS unit, with around 1.5 to 2
Tb of hard drive space. Is there a recommended software and hardware
configuration that others are using to do the same?

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 10:17:07 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:17:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/25/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I am looking at putting together a homemade NAS unit, with around 1.5 to 2
> Tb of hard drive space. Is there a recommended software and hardware
> configuration that others are using to do the same?

Have you checked:

http://www.freenas.org/

???


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr 25 10:25:54 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:25:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20070425152554.GB11885@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 10:05:16AM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> I am looking at putting together a homemade NAS unit, with around 1.5 to 2
> Tb of hard drive space. Is there a recommended software and hardware
> configuration that others are using to do the same?

I'm interested in the answers too.  So far I've heard about:

   http://www.openfiler.com/
   http://www.freenas.org/

Being intrigued by all the hype around ZFS and (Open)Solaris,
I've tried installing it on my newest home server, but it did
not support my SATA controllers.  Bah!  I might try again, when
the IDE-based machine frees up.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From admin at lctn.org  Wed Apr 25 10:27:10 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:27:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>

> Have you checked:
>
> http://www.freenas.org/


Thanks. Didn't know about that site

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Apr 25 10:31:12 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:31:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org> 
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20070425153112.AEC8B3355@skuld.wookimus.net>

admin at lctn.org  wrote:
> I am looking at putting together a homemade NAS unit, with around
> 1.5 to 2 Tb of hard drive space. Is there a recommended software and
> hardware configuration that others are using to do the same?

2U Enclosure or Tower (depends upon where you're going to put it)
6 - 500 Gig Western Digital RAID Edition SATA Drives
6 - Hot-swap HD Sleds
AMD64 of some kind, at least 512 MiB RAM (1-2 Gig if you've got the
cash).  A mobo with SATA controller (don't worry about whether it has
RAID or not).  Proabably a SATA DVD burner (to create backups of
discrete directories).

Now, where you can save money is by bypassing any sort of hardware
RAID and use Linux's software raid.

Debian Etch
Kernel with software RAID 5 enabled and LVM2 (default for Etch)
5 drives used in RAID 5 array with 1 hot-swap
OpenSSH, Samba, rsync, and NFS

If you also want backups, you could thrown in at least 2 or more
drives that are used as off-line backup devices.  If you're selective
about what data needs to be backed-up, you can get away with fewer
drives.  Mount the backup logical volume at "/backup" and use
something like backup2l or a home-cooked backup solution that tarballs
and compresses your data, then unmount.

Burn data to DVD's that is in small enough chunks and doesn't change
often for your "permanent" backup, or invest in tapes.

-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */



From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Apr 25 10:55:41 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:55:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <462F79FD.1030502@e-skinner.net>

admin at lctn.org wrote:
> I am looking at putting together a homemade NAS unit, with around 1.5 to 2
> Tb of hard drive space. Is there a recommended software and hardware
> configuration that others are using to do the same?
>
>   
i think it depends on how involved you want to be in the process.  the 
frenas and openfilers are great quick hits, but if you want the 
flexibility of doing something else down the road with that server, you 
might be better off running a linux distro with samba.  you didn't 
mention AD tie in, or any other authentication needs, so i won't go there.

if price is an issue, linux software raid really does the trick - just 
make sure you have mdamd configure to alert you when a drive fails. i've 
been using linux software raid in my home file servers for 8+ years, 
works great, and the performance is very acceptable.  i see about a 5% 
cpu hit and that is it.  my 1TB (5 x 250gb pata, raid-5) nas is full and 
i'm looking at building my next one.  i'll be going sata this time with 
500gb drives this time - but will be sticking with software raid.  the 
hot swap enclosures are nice but will add $200-500 depending on the one 
you choose.  if it is business critical and you can't afford downtime, 
its worth it as is a hot spare drive.

my 2 cents!


From swaite at sbn-services.com  Wed Apr 25 12:38:13 2007
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:38:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>

I would recommend  FreeNAS as well, been using it for quite some time and 
have been very pleased with  it. It does everything I ask and more. Nice 
thing about it is, similar to m0n0wall from which it is a fork, you can 
simply back up the configuration. In the event a re-install is necessary, 
there really is no worries. I have swapped drives out before out of two 
FreeNAS machines, installed, and restored settings in a matter of minutes. 
Another nice aspect is it requires hardly any disk space, so for the OS you 
can use basically any old hard drive, and then add in the larger file share 
drives. In fact this is what got me into FreeNAS, I was looking to use a 
bunch of old hardware to make a storage share for disk based backups.Sean 
Waite




-----Original Message-----

From: admin at lctn.org

To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:27:10 -0500 (CDT)

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS




> Have you checked:

>

> http://www.freenas.org/ [http://www.freenas.org/]





Thanks. Didn't know about that site



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

believed to be clean.





_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
[http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list]
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From j at packetgod.com  Wed Apr 25 13:58:52 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:58:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>

I'm going to throw in something completely different as I'm on this 
whole low power/low noise/super cheap kick and now have my asterisk 
server running on my WRT54GS and am also now building up my new NAS 
system using Unslung with the NSLU2.  Hookup a 1TB to 1.5TB USB 
enclosure to this and you are good to go.  I'm only doing 500GB but 
there are 1.5TB USB boxes on the market.  Plus there is two USB ports, 
I'm not sure if you could do an LVM or not but its worth looking into.

http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Unslung/HomePage

--j

Sean Waite wrote:
>
> I would recommend  FreeNAS as well, been using it for quite some time 
> and have been very pleased with  it. It does everything I ask and 
> more. Nice thing about it is, similar to m0n0wall from which it is a 
> fork, you can simply back up the configuration. In the event a 
> re-install is necessary, there really is no worries. I have swapped 
> drives out before out of two FreeNAS machines, installed, and restored 
> settings in a matter of minutes. Another nice aspect is it requires 
> hardly any disk space, so for the OS you can use basically any old 
> hard drive, and then add in the larger file share drives. In fact this 
> is what got me into FreeNAS, I was looking to use a bunch of old 
> hardware to make a storage share for disk based backups.
>
>  
>
>
> Sean Waite
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: admin at lctn.org
>     To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>     Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:27:10 -0500 (CDT)
>     Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
>
>     > Have you checked:
>     >
>     > http://www.freenas.org/
>
>
>     Thanks. Didn't know about that site
>
>     -- 
>     This message has been scanned for viruses and
>     dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>     believed to be clean.
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 16:30:36 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:30:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>

> system using Unslung with the NSLU2.

Now that's a tempting little project. I could replace an old computer
that's dedicated to running BackupPC
(http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/) with one of those, and the whole
mess could fit into some sort of small ventilated and locked enclosure
secured to the floor or the wall...

Hmmm... :-)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Apr 25 17:43:16 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:43:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
	<e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070425224316.GH11885@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 04:30:36PM -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
> > system using Unslung with the NSLU2.
> 
> Now that's a tempting little project. I could replace an old computer
> that's dedicated to running BackupPC
> (http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/) with one of those, and the whole
> mess could fit into some sort of small ventilated and locked enclosure
> secured to the floor or the wall...

I hope you realize the performance will be somewhere around a couple of
megabytes per second for write and double that for read.

My first attempt at a NAS was with a PII/450 MHz and a USB2.0 external
harddrive.  The performance was abysmal, and I expect the NSLU2 to be
even slower, based on the CPU, RAM and NIC.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 19:39:00 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:39:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <20070425224316.GH11885@iucha.net>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
	<e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070425224316.GH11885@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70704251739m579a9de3n781926e431e8fbdf@mail.gmail.com>

PII and USB... if you were using onboard USB there is a good chance
that it was USB 1.1 which was abysmal.

On 4/25/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 04:30:36PM -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
> > > system using Unslung with the NSLU2.
> >
> > Now that's a tempting little project. I could replace an old computer
> > that's dedicated to running BackupPC
> > (http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/) with one of those, and the whole
> > mess could fit into some sort of small ventilated and locked enclosure
> > secured to the floor or the wall...
>
> I hope you realize the performance will be somewhere around a couple of
> megabytes per second for write and double that for read.
>
> My first attempt at a NAS was with a PII/450 MHz and a USB2.0 external
> harddrive.  The performance was abysmal, and I expect the NSLU2 to be
> even slower, based on the CPU, RAM and NIC.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Wed Apr 25 20:38:51 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:38:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
	<e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704252038390.20979@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
> Now that's a tempting little project. I could replace an old computer 
> that's dedicated to running BackupPC (http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/) 
> with one of those, and the whole mess could fit into some sort of small 
> ventilated and locked enclosure secured to the floor or the wall...
>
> Hmmm... :-)

BackupPC needs CPU and memory.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr 26 06:39:40 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 06:39:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70704251739m579a9de3n781926e431e8fbdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
	<e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070425224316.GH11885@iucha.net>
	<47f4d5e70704251739m579a9de3n781926e431e8fbdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070426113939.GI11885@iucha.net>

On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 07:39:00PM -0500, Donovan Niesen wrote:
> PII and USB... if you were using onboard USB there is a good chance
> that it was USB 1.1 which was abysmal.

Nope, it was a USB 2.0 add-in card, and a Gigabit NIC.  USB just sucks
for storage, especially when you layer it on top of IDE...

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From tclug at natecarlson.com  Thu Apr 26 10:41:44 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:41:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <20070426113939.GI11885@iucha.net>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
	<e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070425224316.GH11885@iucha.net>
	<47f4d5e70704251739m579a9de3n781926e431e8fbdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070426113939.GI11885@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704261041340.4907@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
> Nope, it was a USB 2.0 add-in card, and a Gigabit NIC.  USB just sucks 
> for storage, especially when you layer it on top of IDE...

I find that firewire's much better - lower cpu utilization and such.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 10:50:20 2007
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:50:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0704261041340.4907@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
	<462FA4EC.1070000@packetgod.com>
	<e3a54b020704251430h4c862671s12ec70a40ae56f03@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070425224316.GH11885@iucha.net>
	<47f4d5e70704251739m579a9de3n781926e431e8fbdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070426113939.GI11885@iucha.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0704261041340.4907@tungsten.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <5bab831e0704260850j1cdd5c0fx62d1fcd89203b560@mail.gmail.com>

I'll second that. Anecdotally, my media server can't present full screen
HDTV from its USB2.0 disc w/o dropping frames, but can with firewire.

Chris

On 4/26/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
> > Nope, it was a USB 2.0 add-in card, and a Gigabit NIC.  USB just sucks
> > for storage, especially when you layer it on top of IDE...
>
> I find that firewire's much better - lower cpu utilization and such.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
"The gun... insures that the people are the equal of their government
whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the
governed."

Ronald Reagan
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 26 11:34:41 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:34:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  Homemade NAS
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGBCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Cole [mailto:cncole at earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 7:29 AM
To: Florin Iucha

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Florin Iucha
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 07:39:00PM -0500, Donovan Niesen wrote:
> > PII and USB... if you were using onboard USB there is a good chance
> > that it was USB 1.1 which was abysmal.
>
> Nope, it was a USB 2.0 add-in card, and a Gigabit NIC.  USB just sucks
> for storage, especially when you layer it on top of IDE...
>
> florin


For those who think USB might be fast, it's worth pointing out that USB
is serial and has a protocol overhead as well.  IDE has transaction
overhead also (quite visible when buffer depth is exceeded).  The
fastest IDE is parallel and 3x faster than USB 2.0, ignoring protocols.
The oldest and slowest IDE is roughly the same as USB 2.0, however.
Ignoring overheads, USB 2.0 has a max of 480Mhz while SATA is 1.5GHz.
The real difference will have USB much slower than 1/3 the speed of
SATA.  For a conversion to work at near the maximum speed, the
interfaces must be appreciably faster so the overhead is masked.

USB is plenty fast enough for keyboards, mice, printers and modems, but
not much else.  It's very convenient, commonly found, robust, and
inexpensive, so "good enough" for many uses.


Chuck





From andyzib at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 12:14:51 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:14:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGBCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGBCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704261014o23c56165l8dc0bc8b63118a65@mail.gmail.com>

> "good enough" for many uses.

I've been unable to see any difference between writing to my USB2
external Maxtor OneTouch drive and the system's internal ATA100/133
disks over a 100Mbps network. USB2 should be able to keep up with
light (2, maybe 3 or 4 computers) accessing the drive via a 10/100
network, but USB2 won't be able to keep pace with even one gigabit
network. For home networks that are only running 10/100 or wireless
and have only a small handful of clients, I don't see any reason why
USB2 based storage couldn't keep up.

Performance can also depend on your USB2 host hardware. I tried a
cheap PCI USB2 addon card in an old computer to run my backups, and
performance was less than stellar. The drive would mount up fine and I
could format it and copy data to and from it. All was going well, but
when BackupPC started pulling in data things went south. Write speed
started fine but declined as activity continued and eventually the
hard drive would disconnect from the USB2 bus with a number of errors
written to the system console. I replaced the cheap USB2 noname card
with a slightly more expensive Adaptec branded USB2 card and all the
problems went away.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Apr 26 12:25:48 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:25:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGBCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGBCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704261216450.5157@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:

> Nope, it was a USB 2.0 add-in card, and a Gigabit NIC.  USB just sucks 
> for storage, especially when you layer it on top of IDE...


On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Nate Carlson wrote:

> I find that firewire's much better - lower cpu utilization and such.


On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> For those who think USB might be fast, it's worth pointing out that USB 
> is serial and has a protocol overhead as well.  IDE has transaction 
> overhead also (quite visible when buffer depth is exceeded).  The 
> fastest IDE is parallel and 3x faster than USB 2.0, ignoring protocols. 
> The oldest and slowest IDE is roughly the same as USB 2.0, however. 
> Ignoring overheads, USB 2.0 has a max of 480Mhz while SATA is 1.5GHz. 
> The real difference will have USB much slower than 1/3 the speed of 
> SATA.  For a conversion to work at near the maximum speed, the 
> interfaces must be appreciably faster so the overhead is masked.
>
> USB is plenty fast enough for keyboards, mice, printers and modems, but 
> not much else.  It's very convenient, commonly found, robust, and 
> inexpensive, so "good enough" for many uses.


I didn't test it on a Linux box, but I bought a Western Digital MyBook 
Premium II 1TB external HDD last week.  (It seemed nice at first but then 
it reported a corrupt drive.)  I did some testing before it failed and 
compared performance of USB 2.0 with Firewire 400 on an XP x64 box, 
writing to the external HDD only:

I wrote 8.734 billion bytes (1,757 files in 128 folders) via Firewire in 9 
minutes 46 seconds which is 119 Mbps.  It took about 2 seconds to delete 
them.  Then I repeated the same file transfer via USB 2.0 and it took 9 
minutes 4 seconds which is 128 Mbps.

At first I thought this meant I should stick with USB because it happens 
to be easier to reach the USB port on my PC (and it was trivially faster 
than Firewire on that box), but now I think I should probably use 
Firewire, assuming you all are correct about the CPU overhead problem. 
That would be important.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 26 12:24:50 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:24:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  FW: Homemade NAS
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Zbikowski [mailto:andyzib at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:14 PM
>
>
> > "good enough" for many uses.
>
> I've been unable to see any difference between writing to my USB2
> external Maxtor OneTouch drive and the system's internal ATA100/133
> disks over a 100Mbps network.

But that says the USB 2.0's 480 mb/s is no better than 100mb/s of the
net, and that is much slower than direct access to a drive.  The extra
USB speed provides a net speed buffer in that case.  Each of those cases
is much slower than a direct access to a fast drive, and that was the
original point.

Might be good enough, tho  :-)


Chuck




From andyzib at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 12:25:12 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:25:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEFECHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <741dcbb80704201813m530fe1edv1649c7092623d4aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEFECHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020704261025i121d3163x281ad493cb8a937d@mail.gmail.com>

> The phones do not have actual GPS receivers
> built-in: it's some funny business with cell tower signals, and they
> call it "GPS".

I don't know the specifics of cell phone use, but I'm imagine it's
similar to LORAN navigation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 12:51:13 2007
From: benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com (Benjamin Gramlich)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:51:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>

> But that says the USB 2.0's 480 mb/s is no better than 100mb/s of the
> net, and that is much slower than direct access to a drive.  The extra
> USB speed provides a net speed buffer in that case.  Each of those cases
> is much slower than a direct access to a fast drive, and that was the
> original point.

I, too, have been looking at setting up and NAS because I've heard that
external HDDs have a high failure rate. Wouldn't the tradeoff in speed
be worth it for reliability of an NAS? In other words, is it better to
have 100mb/s and a reliable RAID setup than to have 480mb/s and an
external drive that may overheat in its enclosure and die?

Benjamin



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Apr 26 13:05:04 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:05:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0704261255070.10159@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> But that says the USB 2.0's 480 mb/s is no better than 100mb/s of the 
> net, and that is much slower than direct access to a drive.  The extra 
> USB speed provides a net speed buffer in that case.  Each of those cases 
> is much slower than a direct access to a fast drive, and that was the 
> original point.

I'm not sure anyone has mentioned the new kid on the block: External SATA 
(a.k.a., eSATA):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#External_SATA

That's gonna be sweet.  ;-)

On the topic of what is good enough:  Most of the time I don't need much. 
Let's face it, I was happy when I got a 2400 baud modem!  Recently, I 
couldn't get a pcmia card to work in an old Gateway laptop, so I bought a 
USB 2.0 wireless card.  Only problem is that the USB port on the old box 
is USB 1.1 which might get me as much as 8 Mbps.  While surfing the net 
from that box, you really can't tell that it is "slow" by current 
standards.  It works fine.  I have no complaints.

Mike


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 26 13:12:21 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:12:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Spring Installfest at HCA
Message-ID: <769849.29097.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Well, sounds like we're go for an Installfest at HCA.  June 2nd all right?

I didn't see any response to my last posting.  Everyone asleep?  Or just forgotten what an Installfest was.

Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote: Well, Doug Coats and I are willing to host another Installfest at HCA again this year.  Doug is currently working with the school to get approval, but I thought I should bring it up here to see what a good date would be.  Probably some time in June.  

I know some others have been talking about hosting one soon, but I've not seen anything official.



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
           

---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. 


--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Thu Apr 26 13:11:26 2007
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A (MN14))
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:11:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recover cell phon GPS ??
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020704261025i121d3163x281ad493cb8a937d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA3F3B3134B63643A9BCE9BB74F58FEC023F1958@MN65EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>


> > The phones do not have actual GPS receivers
> > built-in: it's some funny business with cell tower signals, and they
> > call it "GPS".


Actually, it's called aGPS (assisted GPS) and uses time delay and
triangulation by the towers as well as satellite signals (which are
presumably relayed, with or without processing, from the phone to the
tower since GPS is a one-way down signal).
http://ezinearticles.com/?GPS-Cell-Phones&id=52208 


If I recall, the original question was how to use this to find a lost
dog.

According to http://www.travelbygps.com/articles/tracking.php 
Location-Based Services (LBS) providers have agreements with the
wireless network carriers to receive data from a cell phone and make it
accessible to you via an Internet web site or call center. Most all LBS
providers will be able to tell you the approximate last known location,
but beyond that, services offered will vary, depending on the type of
cell phone and the capabilities of the service provider. 

Sounds like it might work, until the dog decides to go for a swim, but I
assume the original poster wanted some kind of DIY solution rather then
buying another service.  



From dalan at visi.com  Thu Apr 26 13:13:24 2007
From: dalan at visi.com (dalan at visi.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:13:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>

I have been using the Linksys nslu2 device without any modifications. I would
not suggest it to be used as a high access read-write device. The speed of the
device is very slow if you don't do any of the mods that can be found on the
web. But even with them, I really don't think I would use it as a high access
read-write device.

I mainly us it as off-line storage, when I want to work with the data on the
drives attached to it, I transfer them over to my local storage then do what I
need.

Be advised that if you get one of these units when you connect your drive to it
, depending of the firmware version, it will re-format the drive to a linux
exp3 device. You won't be able to connect the USB drive to your Windows box and
access it again.

As off-line storage I like it beats tape drives, but as a device that I could
run a database against or any high access application, not so much.

Don S.

Quoting Benjamin Gramlich <benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com>:

> > But that says the USB 2.0's 480 mb/s is no better than 100mb/s of the
> > net, and that is much slower than direct access to a drive.  The extra
> > USB speed provides a net speed buffer in that case.  Each of those cases
> > is much slower than a direct access to a fast drive, and that was the
> > original point.
>
> I, too, have been looking at setting up and NAS because I've heard that
> external HDDs have a high failure rate. Wouldn't the tradeoff in speed
> be worth it for reliability of an NAS? In other words, is it better to
> have 100mb/s and a reliable RAID setup than to have 480mb/s and an
> external drive that may overheat in its enclosure and die?
>
> Benjamin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>





From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 26 13:42:51 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:42:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGDCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benjamin Gramlich [mailto:benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:51 PM
>
>
> I, too, have been looking at setting up and NAS because I've
> heard that
> external HDDs have a high failure rate. Wouldn't the tradeoff in speed
> be worth it for reliability of an NAS?

Let others address this.  I don't have enough knowledge here.

> In other words, is it better to
> have 100mb/s and a reliable RAID setup than to have 480mb/s and an
> external drive that may overheat in its enclosure and die?

My 2.5 inch external case/drive does a decent job of conductive cooling
to the exterior from which natural convection is quite adequate.  I'd
guess that the same attention to cooling exists for larger cases.  I was
interested in the simplicity and portability of my 2.5 inch external
drive when my laptop was sick and I needed to access data through a
desktop at work.  60Gb that fits a shirt pocket is nice!  Speed with USB
2.0 "ain't bad" (this laptop drive is kinda slow anyway), and I can
tolerate the speed with USB 1.1 before resorting to juggling CDs, etc.


Chuck




From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 13:46:39 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:46:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
	<1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/07, dalan at visi.com <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
>
>
> Be advised that if you get one of these units when you connect your drive
> to it
> , depending of the firmware version, it will re-format the drive to a
> linux
> exp3 device. You won't be able to connect the USB drive to your Windows
> box and
> access it again.



Not true - I just unslung a stock NSLU, moved one of the externals to my
windows box and installed ext2 drivers for winodws (
http://www.fs-driver.org/).  Got my data off.  The unslung NSLU now has one
of the original drives (original data intact) and a usb printer (which I can
print to from any computer on my network)

As off-line storage I like it beats tape drives, but as a device that I
> could
> run a database against or any high access application, not so much.
>
> Don S.
>
>
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 13:55:25 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:55:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGDCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCEGDCHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704261155ue6a5c0fja3dc463cddea4839@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/07, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Benjamin Gramlich [mailto:benjamin.gramlich at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:51 PM
> >
> >
> > I, too, have been looking at setting up and NAS because I've
> > heard that
> > external HDDs have a high failure rate. Wouldn't the tradeoff in speed
> > be worth it for reliability of an NAS?
>
> Let others address this.  I don't have enough knowledge here.


With the NSLU2 NAS unit you use external drives (USB) - so it really depends
on the enclosure.  These enclosures run really cool ->
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145162
I have 2 and have "installed" 6 others for family/friends small office....
a bit of noise with the fan, but the case itself is never warm to the
touch.  I have not had any problems for 2 years now with these enclosures
(YMMV of course).

> In other words, is it better to
> > have 100mb/s and a reliable RAID setup than to have 480mb/s and an
> > external drive that may overheat in its enclosure and die?
>
> My 2.5 inch external case/drive does a decent job of conductive cooling
> to the exterior from which natural convection is quite adequate.  I'd
> guess that the same attention to cooling exists for larger cases.  I was
> interested in the simplicity and portability of my 2.5 inch external
> drive when my laptop was sick and I needed to access data through a
> desktop at work.  60Gb that fits a shirt pocket is nice!  Speed with USB
> 2.0 "ain't bad" (this laptop drive is kinda slow anyway), and I can
> tolerate the speed with USB 1.1 before resorting to juggling CDs, etc.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From dalan at visi.com  Thu Apr 26 13:58:39 2007
From: dalan at visi.com (dalan at visi.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:58:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
	<1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>
	<65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1177613919.4630f65f3883a@my.visi.com>

There is also a new version of the firmware that is suppose to support NTFS, I
haven't worked with it which is why I said, depending on the firmware version.
Unslung is a 3rd party update to the firmware, from what I have read a really
good one. It opens up lots of little toy's for the NSLU2.

For the money, the unit does exactly what I need. I wish LinkSys would embrace
Unslung instead of fighting it.

Don S.

Quoting John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com>:

> On 4/26/07, dalan at visi.com <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Be advised that if you get one of these units when you connect your drive
> > to it
> > , depending of the firmware version, it will re-format the drive to a
> > linux
> > exp3 device. You won't be able to connect the USB drive to your Windows
> > box and
> > access it again.
>
>
>
> Not true - I just unslung a stock NSLU, moved one of the externals to my
> windows box and installed ext2 drivers for winodws (
> http://www.fs-driver.org/).  Got my data off.  The unslung NSLU now has one
> of the original drives (original data intact) and a usb printer (which I can
> print to from any computer on my network)
>
> As off-line storage I like it beats tape drives, but as a device that I
> > could
> > run a database against or any high access application, not so much.
> >
> > Don S.
> >
> >
>





From j at packetgod.com  Thu Apr 26 14:08:32 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:08:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>	<1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>
	<65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4630F8B0.1020405@packetgod.com>

So looks like I've opened up a fun discussion here, but I'll just say 
that the NSLU setup works great for me at my house.  Everyone is 
wireless (54Mbps) and all systems are able to connect to it at decent 
speeds and I run backup jobs on the systems to copy any modified files 
in specific directories to it nightly.  I love it.  And the best part of 
all is that it is running on a very small, totally quiet (ok the drive 
fan makes noise), and low power footprint box.  I really didn't want to 
have a huge box up and running to do the simple tasks I needed the box 
to do.  

So your mileage may vary, but to share files, have a central backup spot 
for pictures and small videos, and do other fun little things its 
great.  I do have other systems that require high speed data transfer 
but I'd never use any sort of NAS with them I'd make sure the data was 
on a local internal drive.

--j



From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 14:15:50 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:15:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <1177613919.4630f65f3883a@my.visi.com>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
	<1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>
	<65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>
	<1177613919.4630f65f3883a@my.visi.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0704261215r4f74aacey5cface9cd8b13057@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/07, dalan at visi.com <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> For the money, the unit does exactly what I need. I wish LinkSys would
> embrace
> Unslung instead of fighting it.


<Cough>

----snippet-----
Mike Wagner, director of marketing for Linksys states: "While Linksys does
not support any of the alternate firmware available for the NSLU2, we are
always delighted to see a product gain such widespread acceptance. Like the
similar community that emerged to enhance the WRT54G before it, the
creativity and ingenuity of Linksys customers inspires us to continually
improve our products." So it sounds like Linksys is aware of the goings-on
and is planning nothing to discourage it.

---end snippet----

source: http://smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/29774/77/1/1/

Don S.
>
> Quoting John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com>:
>
> > On 4/26/07, dalan at visi.com <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Be advised that if you get one of these units when you connect your
> drive
> > > to it
> > > , depending of the firmware version, it will re-format the drive to a
> > > linux
> > > exp3 device. You won't be able to connect the USB drive to your
> Windows
> > > box and
> > > access it again.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not true - I just unslung a stock NSLU, moved one of the externals to my
> > windows box and installed ext2 drivers for winodws (
> > http://www.fs-driver.org/).  Got my data off.  The unslung NSLU now has
> one
> > of the original drives (original data intact) and a usb printer (which I
> can
> > print to from any computer on my network)
> >
> > As off-line storage I like it beats tape drives, but as a device that I
> > > could
> > > run a database against or any high access application, not so much.
> > >
> > > Don S.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From dalan at visi.com  Thu Apr 26 14:28:36 2007
From: dalan at visi.com (dalan at visi.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:28:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: FW: Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0704261215r4f74aacey5cface9cd8b13057@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEFLJOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<1177609873.27612.2.camel@desktop>
	<1177611204.4630ebc4832ed@my.visi.com>
	<65293fcc0704261146m5886ced0ya0f57301cf7a9384@mail.gmail.com>
	<1177613919.4630f65f3883a@my.visi.com>
	<65293fcc0704261215r4f74aacey5cface9cd8b13057@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1177615716.4630fd64435df@my.visi.com>

Cough... :-)

ok, so they don't exactly fight it but they don't incorporate any of the
improvements unslung has made into their firmware..

Thanks John for getting the snippet..

Don S.
Quoting John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com>:

> On 4/26/07, dalan at visi.com <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > For the money, the unit does exactly what I need. I wish LinkSys would
> > embrace
> > Unslung instead of fighting it.
>
>
> <Cough>
>
> ----snippet-----
> Mike Wagner, director of marketing for Linksys states: "While Linksys does
> not support any of the alternate firmware available for the NSLU2, we are
> always delighted to see a product gain such widespread acceptance. Like the
> similar community that emerged to enhance the WRT54G before it, the
> creativity and ingenuity of Linksys customers inspires us to continually
> improve our products." So it sounds like Linksys is aware of the goings-on
> and is planning nothing to discourage it.
>
> ---end snippet----
>
> source: http://smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/29774/77/1/1/
>
> Don S.
> >
> > Quoting John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com>:
> >
> > > On 4/26/07, dalan at visi.com <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be advised that if you get one of these units when you connect your
> > drive
> > > > to it
> > > > , depending of the firmware version, it will re-format the drive to a
> > > > linux
> > > > exp3 device. You won't be able to connect the USB drive to your
> > Windows
> > > > box and
> > > > access it again.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Not true - I just unslung a stock NSLU, moved one of the externals to my
> > > windows box and installed ext2 drivers for winodws (
> > > http://www.fs-driver.org/).  Got my data off.  The unslung NSLU now has
> > one
> > > of the original drives (original data intact) and a usb printer (which I
> > can
> > > print to from any computer on my network)
> > >
> > > As off-line storage I like it beats tape drives, but as a device that I
> > > > could
> > > > run a database against or any high access application, not so much.
> > > >
> > > > Don S.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>





From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr 26 18:00:13 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:00:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Spring Installfest at HCA
In-Reply-To: <769849.29097.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <769849.29097.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070426230013.GL11885@iucha.net>

On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 11:12:21AM -0700, Wayne Johnson wrote:
> Well, sounds like we're go for an Installfest at HCA.  June 2nd all right?

Works for me(tm).

florin


-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Apr 26 19:34:04 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:34:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200704270034.l3R0Y4012934@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Home Based Order Processing

Home Based Order Processing
Earn $300-$900 Every Week From Home
Doing Simple Online Form Submission.
Complete Training, Easy to Start.
http://ourdataentry.com

Seller Email address: blrbindu at yahoo dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 19:42:40 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:42:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Looking for small rack
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>

Hold back the jokes please.  This is a serious inquiry.

Anybody have a four-post half rack they're looking to get out of their
basement?  Or know of a good place locally to pick one up (used or
new)?

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From josh at tcbug.org  Fri Apr 27 08:36:54 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:36:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
References: <37917.64.8.148.4.1177513516.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0704250817w75cdcf4ckfd770e65b4f027cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<34601.64.8.148.4.1177514830.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<WorldClient-F200704251238.AA38130070@sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <20070427133654.GW56268@tcbug.org>

Sean Waite wrote:
> I would recommend  FreeNAS as well, been using it for quite some time and 
> have been very pleased with  it. It does everything I ask and more. Nice 
> thing about it is, similar to m0n0wall from which it is a fork, you can 
> simply back up the configuration. In the event a re-install is necessary, 
> there really is no worries. I have swapped drives out before out of two 
> FreeNAS machines, installed, and restored settings in a matter of minutes. 
> Another nice aspect is it requires hardly any disk space, so for the OS you 
> can use basically any old hard drive, and then add in the larger file share 
> drives. In fact this is what got me into FreeNAS, I was looking to use a 
> bunch of old hardware to make a storage share for disk based backups.Sean 
> Waite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: admin at lctn.org
> 
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> 
> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:27:10 -0500 (CDT)
> 
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Homemade NAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Have you checked:
> 
> >
> 
> > http://www.freenas.org/ [http://www.freenas.org/]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Didn't know about that site
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 

Nice to see you guys aren't completely dead-set against using BSD for
stuffs, but I feel the need to toss in a word of warning. (and this is
coming from someone who works on FBSD professionally and has been
contributing to it for well over a decade)

UFS2 is a really nice filesystem, I've had better luck with it in
terms of stability and reliability than ext3 over the years, but it
does have one disadvantage that really hurts when it comes to large
filesystems.  It's not journelled.  This means on a bad shutdown you
have to fsck, and while that happens in the background it tanks I/O
while it runs.  The other problem you are going to run in to is the
amount of RAM it takes to run an fsck on large filesystems.  Expect to
need a gig per TB to be able to successfully fsck if there's a
shutdown during heavy concurrent I/O.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Fri Apr 27 09:55:28 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:55:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Looking for small rack
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, Donovan Niesen wrote:
> Hold back the jokes please.  This is a serious inquiry.

  No kidding, my wife keeps getting pissed off when I say I need to find a 
bigger rack...

> Anybody have a four-post half rack they're looking to get out of their
> basement?  Or know of a good place locally to pick one up (used or
> new)?

  Alas, all I've got here is a 10U quarter-rack, which is in need of an 
upgrade.  (These are readily available at Ax-Man for something like 
$20-30, FWIW.)  As a result, I too am looking for a half or full rack.
  So, what have people got in their basements/garages, taking up space? :-)

      Jima


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Fri Apr 27 10:22:23 2007
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:22:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Looking for small rack
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/27/07, Jima <jima at beer.tclug.org> wrote:
> > Anybody have a four-post half rack they're looking to get out of their
> > basement?  Or know of a good place locally to pick one up (used or
> > new)?
>
>   Alas, all I've got here is a 10U quarter-rack, which is in need of an
> upgrade.  (These are readily available at Ax-Man for something like
> $20-30, FWIW.)  As a result, I too am looking for a half or full rack.
>   So, what have people got in their basements/garages, taking up space? :-)

I actually have two racks, one of which probably needs to go away.
One is a half rack, which I would actually prefer to hold on to, and
the other one is closer to a full rack.  I'm guessing it's about 35U
(not quite 6' tall) and it is on casters, which is nice, as the half
rack is not.
I would be willing to part with the larger one for the low low price
of you come and pick it up or pay a reasonable delivery fee.  The
smaller one would take some coaxing because I like it better!
Neither is the most beautiful thing in the world, and IIRC, they're
both round hole, but they've both done their job for me.  Let me know
if you'd like pictures.
- Justin


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Mon Apr 30 10:29:10 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:29:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
	<27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!

We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending as 
well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG list 
members are planning to make it.

	http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/

Who is planning to attend?  

Jeremy

[Note:  Some people may stay silent, so this will only provide a minimum 
count.]



From srcfoo at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 11:13:47 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:13:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
	<27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30704300913g454f47djcefdf470183968af@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/30/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
> Who is planning to attend?


See you there.

Eric


From trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com  Mon Apr 30 11:38:24 2007
From: trammell+tclug at el-swifto.com (John Trammell)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:38:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Looking for small rack
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <20070430163824.GB11151@mail.el-swifto.com>

On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 09:55:28AM -0500, Jima wrote:
> So, what have people got in their basements/garages, taking up space?

Half-height rack (currently empty) in the basement.  Maybe 18U?  So many
plans, so little time.

Sigh... anyone who wants it is welcome to it, for the price of dragging
it up the flight of stairs from our basement.  It's a wee bit on the
heavy side.  I also have some rack mounting hardware to sweeten the
deal.

-- 
trammell at el-swifto.com  9EC7 BC6D E688 A184 9F58  FD4C 2C12 CC14 8ABA 36F5
Twin Cities Linux Users Group (TCLUG)      Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota


From stuff at cb1inc.com  Mon Apr 30 13:27:24 2007
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:27:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
Message-ID: <4636350C.2060601@cb1inc.com>

I wouldn't miss it for the world!  I'm glad that things are starting to 
pick back up!

- Chris
http://cb1inc.com

Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
Date: Monday 30 April 2007 10:29 am
From: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!

We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending as
well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG list
members are planning to make it.

	http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/

Who is planning to attend?

Jeremy

[Note:  Some people may stay silent, so this will only provide a minimum
count.]


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-------------------------------------------------------

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From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon Apr 30 13:54:40 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:54:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <4636350C.2060601@cb1inc.com>
References: <4636350C.2060601@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <46363B70.1000501@freeshell.org>


> The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!
> 
> We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending as
> well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG list
> members are planning to make it.
> 
> 	http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/
> 
> Who is planning to attend?


I hope to make it.

-Steve


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 14:00:22 2007
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:00:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
	<27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0704301200w732e3335x4a1d7ae8ce3c2d2b@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/30/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
> The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!
>
> We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending as
> well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG list
> members are planning to make it.

Poll is up:

http://www.tclug.org

An item for discussion would be a new TCLUG pollmeister, since I
haven't been keeping up in the last few years :-)

-Brian


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 30 14:20:16 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <628902.9529.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'd love to come but I have a self imposed moratorium on new projects till I finish the current semester.  

One item I'd like to add to the agenda would be our (Doug Coats and I) offer to host an installfest at HCA (same location as last June).  I'd like some sort of "official" yes or no so we can start planning.  I'd like to also get a list of people to volunteer to help, etc.  Please discuss it and let me know what's happening.


Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote: 
The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!

We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending as 
well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG list 
members are planning to make it.

 http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/

Who is planning to attend?  

Jeremy

[Note:  Some people may stay silent, so this will only provide a minimum 
count.]


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From trnja001 at umn.edu  Mon Apr 30 14:32:27 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:32:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>	<27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <4636444B.7040103@umn.edu>

I'll be there and I'll try to drag along who ever I can.

Jeremy wrote:
> The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!
>
> We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending as 
> well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG list 
> members are planning to make it.
>
> 	http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/
>
> Who is planning to attend?  
>
> Jeremy
>
> [Note:  Some people may stay silent, so this will only provide a minimum 
> count.]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From srcfoo at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 15:51:33 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:51:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <628902.9529.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<628902.9529.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30704301351k68382c68j3fb7023eaa67da49@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/30/07, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> One item I'd like to add to the agenda would be our (Doug Coats and I) offer
> to host an installfest at HCA (same location as last June).  I'd like some
> sort of "official" yes or no so we can start planning.  I'd like to also get
> a list of people to volunteer to help, etc.  Please discuss it and let me
> know what's happening.

I was at that installfest last summer. The location worked well and I
think it would be a good place to have another. So my vote is for
"yes".

It was difficult enough to get everything together for this meeting so
it would be great to have a definite date, time and place for the
installfest.

Thanks for volunteering! Let me know how I can help.

Eric


From kcbnac at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 17:07:35 2007
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:07:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <47f4d5e70704261742p49307fe8h585dc1d5a7f34452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0704270924230.7527@beer.tclug.org>
	<27e6356a0704270822h4d07b0fbh6ac19eae89d1f9e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704301029.10935.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <32fd45370704301507s49575a9fhfaaf540c9888d75d@mail.gmail.com>

I'll meander over, and bring a toy for people to play with before/after the
meeting. :D

Keith Bachman

On 4/30/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
>
> The TCLUG meeting is coming up this Wednesday!
>
> We've sent announcements to other lists, so there will be others attending
> as
> well.  However, it would be good to have an estimate of how many TCLUG
> list
> members are planning to make it.
>
>         http://www.mn-linux.org/meetings/
>
> Who is planning to attend?
>
> Jeremy
>
> [Note:  Some people may stay silent, so this will only provide a minimum
> count.]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 30 18:38:46 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:38:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG relaunched - Wed May 2, 6:30 - 8pm
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30704301351k68382c68j3fb7023eaa67da49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579750.43276.qm@web53809.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

June 2nd is the date we're currently looking at.  We have a few constraints like the end of school and staff vacations.

Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote: On 4/30/07, Wayne Johnson  wrote:
> One item I'd like to add to the agenda would be our (Doug Coats and I) offer
> to host an installfest at HCA (same location as last June).  I'd like some
> sort of "official" yes or no so we can start planning.  I'd like to also get
> a list of people to volunteer to help, etc.  Please discuss it and let me
> know what's happening.

I was at that installfest last summer. The location worked well and I
think it would be a good place to have another. So my vote is for
"yes".

It was difficult enough to get everything together for this meeting so
it would be great to have a definite date, time and place for the
installfest.

Thanks for volunteering! Let me know how I can help.

Eric



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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